Set Boundaries & Stop the Pattern of Stupidity!

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Best -selling author, Ramsey Personality, Jade Washall is my co -host today as we take your questions about your life and your money.

[2] AAA 825 -5 -225 is the number.

[3] Abel is with us.

[4] I'm sorry.

[5] Hey, Abdel, what's up?

[6] Yes.

[7] So I have, I need your help, Ramsey.

[8] I have three different types of loans.

[9] I'm just going to break it down for you.

[10] My first loan is $20 ,525 in credit card debt.

[11] And the second one is $22 ,000 in student loans.

[12] And the third one is a car loan of $20 ,211.

[13] Those three loans are equaling that.

[14] same amount as my income.

[15] So my income is $63 ,000.

[16] And my question in particular is for the credit card debt.

[17] I'm about to max out my credit card.

[18] And honestly, I'm paying, you know, $1 ,000, $2 ,000 a month and it's not getting anywhere because of, you know, the interest.

[19] And I'm just trying to weigh my options here and see, you know, should I not pay and just settle it with the creditor?

[20] Or should I find another option, especially for the credit card debt?

[21] Is it just one card or is it several?

[22] Just, no, just one card.

[23] Okay.

[24] What do you do?

[25] So I work in the humanitarian sector.

[26] I help refugees.

[27] Okay.

[28] You work in the humanitarian sector and you help refugees.

[29] Yes, but I work in the finance department.

[30] I see.

[31] Okay.

[32] How old are you?

[33] I'm 28 years old.

[34] Okay.

[35] It's just to you?

[36] Or you have a wife and a son.

[37] I have a wife and a son.

[38] What's your wife make?

[39] My wife, she came from overseas, so she only has a high school education, so she's a stay -at -home mom.

[40] Okay.

[41] How old's the son?

[42] He's seven months old.

[43] Okay.

[44] So what's been the situation in your life where you can't live on $63 ,000?

[45] Tell us more.

[46] It's really, you know, stupid.

[47] mistakes um i before you know before i got married i had no debt beside the student loans and i had 20 000 in savings and i think after i got married um especially you know the wedding in our in our country is very expensive the cut the wedding cost me up alone 30 000 dollars and then on top of that you know diapers and um you know gold for the for the wife and and just you know i brought the credit i'm sorry did you say gold yeah yeah i have to buy gold yes that's how you get married overseas.

[48] The gold was a loan like $10 ,000.

[49] Okay.

[50] So you got $40 ,000 that you doesn't have to get married.

[51] And then you bought a $20 ,000 car you couldn't afford.

[52] Yes.

[53] Yeah.

[54] And I don't think diapers is even on the list here.

[55] Yeah.

[56] So, um, okay.

[57] Okay.

[58] Well, so the answer to your question is that when we have financial problems, including when I had them, the problems are not the problem.

[59] They're the symptom.

[60] And what I'm hearing is, is you have a tremendous ability to, you really struggle with saying no to anyone.

[61] And so you're going to have to practice that word.

[62] No. No. No. We don't have the money.

[63] No. We're not in Congress.

[64] No, I don't care what the culture says.

[65] No, I don't have the money.

[66] No, I can't do something that I don't have the money to do.

[67] No, we can't go over there.

[68] No, I don't want to do this.

[69] No, I can't be here right now because I'm having to work extra jobs because I didn't say no before.

[70] Correct.

[71] So now you've got extra jobs coming and you're going to sell your car and that's the way you can pay your credit card.

[72] So get rid of the car and get you a cheap car and take three extra jobs and work your brains out.

[73] And by the way, she can do something.

[74] I agree.

[75] And she needs to do something to create some income.

[76] Even with, even if it's while the baby's napping, she does something on eBay.

[77] I don't care what she does, but she needs to do something to create some income since we've invested $40 ,000 into her.

[78] You're not wrong.

[79] I was pretty cold.

[80] That was pretty cold, but you're not wrong.

[81] That's true.

[82] You know, that's worth talking about.

[83] Stay -at -home mom.

[84] You know, if that's the choice you want to make, that's true.

[85] That's fine.

[86] But there's something that you can do to earn money.

[87] And there's so many great, if you don't want to pay the full cost of daycare, there's great mom's day -out programs where it can give you some time back.

[88] Seven months old sleep a lot.

[89] Yeah, there's time back.

[90] Open up the computer and start doing something while they're sleeping.

[91] There's something you can do and earn some money.

[92] And Abdel, you're going to be working more because you need more money and you're going to be on a really tight budget, you're not going out to eat, you're not going on vacation, and you're selling a car that you shouldn't have bought, and then you can work through this and you can pay it.

[93] No, you don't let your credit cards go and then not pay a bill that you promised to pay when you have the ability to do it.

[94] Now, the question is, are you willing to do those things?

[95] and that's going to be the $900 answer.

[96] That's so interesting to me. I mean, I come from the hillbilly culture, the noble hillbillies, by the way, which at no point in that culture would anyone have ever paid $10 ,000 for the opportunity to marry someone.

[97] You might have gotten paid $10 ,000 to get someone out of their house, but you wouldn't have paid for it.

[98] So it's so foreign to me, no pun intended.

[99] But, I mean, it's obvious that something, something that's a big deal in his culture.

[100] I'm not disrespecting that, but I just can't get my head around it because it's not where I come from.

[101] That's right.

[102] Yeah, it's a lot of money.

[103] That's $10 ,000 in gold.

[104] So you're looking at a broke guy who's going to bring your daughter to America and be his wife and the culture says you have to give $10 ,000 in gold.

[105] Wow.

[106] Well, you know, part of it is it just goes to show that culturally, no matter what culture, there's things that, you know, If you really put some thought into it, you can say, well, that's a little bit backwards, right?

[107] Like, we've got that in our culture.

[108] I mean, we talk about it every day.

[109] Our culture says, hey, if you need something going into debt to get it, you want to education, get a student loan, you want a car, get a car note.

[110] And it takes a moment to, like you said, you have to look at that and go, does that really make sense for me or really for anybody?

[111] And it's a head scratcher.

[112] And then you say, no, I'm not going to do that.

[113] Yeah.

[114] I'm not going to be normal.

[115] I'm not going to be normal.

[116] But this is a cautionary tale, I think, of how, you know, what seems like a small.

[117] amount of debt in quotes, $20 ,000, that's, I can handle that.

[118] And then you do another $20 ,000.

[119] I can handle that in a car loan.

[120] And then $20 ,000 in student loans, that's not that bad.

[121] And then before you know it, like he said, it's the exact amount of your income.

[122] It's scary to me how fast he went from having some money and no debt all the way to having no money and a bunch of debt.

[123] And it all centered around not saying no to something.

[124] Yeah.

[125] Or not questioning the protocols that I put in front of you.

[126] So, and I don't know that you can.

[127] I'm not sure how this goes.

[128] It's true.

[129] I really don't know what he was facing on that because I don't understand it.

[130] Yeah.

[131] But it still has to do with, no, can't do that.

[132] Yeah, you can afford what you can afford.

[133] Yeah, don't have the money.

[134] This, what do you?

[135] I guess I know.

[136] No, this is the Ramsey show.

[137] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[138] Hey, good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[139] It's hitting us right now.

[140] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[141] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[142] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[143] Here's what I've learned.

[144] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[145] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[146] and I know that you have to do those same things too.

[147] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[148] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[149] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[150] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[151] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself and most importantly how to find peace in all of this chaos in this upcoming season make sure you put on your oxygen mask first never skip therapy day call my friends at BetterHelp Visit betterhelp .com slash Doloney today for 10 % off your first month that's BetterHelphelp .com slash Deloni Jade Walshaw -Ramsie personality is my co -host today Dave is with us and Dave is in Orlando.

[152] Hi, Dave, how are you?

[153] Hi, I'm good, Dave.

[154] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[155] Sure.

[156] What's up?

[157] Hi, so my wife and I, so we are foster parents and we were taking care of a baby pretty much from a newborn until about eight months.

[158] The mom did great.

[159] She got her kids back after she went through some struggles.

[160] Long story short, her case has been close.

[161] She has all her head's back, and she is struggling again.

[162] So with pretty much all aspects of life, but financially, she made some poor decisions with a car, ended up breaking down, and she had to junk it, and she contacted us just for some help financially.

[163] We haven't helped her with money before, but obviously we love, you know, her son very much.

[164] We want her to succeed.

[165] we know that giving her money is not a long -term solution to anything.

[166] So we're really just trying to think about the best way to approach her, talk to her about, you know, what's going on, how her finances are, how she can get assistance, build a budget, et cetera.

[167] And she's a very, very shy, closed -off type person.

[168] So we don't want to scare her off, but obviously still wanting to help her.

[169] We're just looking for the best way to maybe approach that.

[170] Well, I mean, all you can do that's reasonable is to coach her, and the only way you can coach her is to the extent she'll accept the coaching, right?

[171] Right.

[172] And I talked to her yesterday, and she, you know, I asked her if she would be open to having a financial conversation.

[173] My wife and I are in, you know, good shape.

[174] We're very stable.

[175] And if she said she was open to having that conversation, she said she doesn't really understand debts and just finances in general.

[176] And on top of that, I mean, she has three kids now.

[177] She is not working, has a baby who's now a year.

[178] And her other two kids are nine and ten.

[179] And she just has absolutely no idea what to do.

[180] She can't get daycare for her, for her baby.

[181] Because in order to get assistance through the state, she has to have two paychecks before they'll provide daycare assistance.

[182] So she is just going crazy.

[183] And we feel like she's close.

[184] to, you know, getting back to a point where she may make some poor decisions or drugs or something like that and, yeah.

[185] Well, obviously the financial situation is, again, the symptom of all the things that have gone on in her life, okay?

[186] And so, but maybe you can coach some of the things in her life by using the financial door to go through.

[187] Having dealt with this a bunch of times over the years, the warning I would give you is I would tell you to be very, very clear up front because when you said financial conversation, you meant coaching.

[188] She might have heard money.

[189] You're going to have a conversation about how much money you're going to give me. Yes, I'll be happy to have that conversation.

[190] It's very clear to her that you're not going to give her money because you're not.

[191] um that then uh because this is a messed up toxic situation if you start that um then she may cut you loose so you need to be ready for that emotionally okay and so i think um you know what i would offer if i were in this situation with your wife present i would just say uh in in person over a cup of coffee um look we love the little boy and that means that we would love to help you.

[192] And our help to you would be that as your older brother and older sister here that are successful in a lot of areas of life that you're not yet, we can show you a better path in a bunch of these areas.

[193] And help her get plugged into a good church.

[194] They can help her with the daycare get started.

[195] Let someone do that.

[196] But if she starts to see this baby as a ticket to get money out of you, this is going to get really ugly fast.

[197] Right.

[198] Right, right.

[199] Yeah.

[200] And so she did move two hours away from us when the case was finally closed.

[201] I guess that was about a month ago.

[202] And we did at that time give her $200 to help moving expensive and get a truck to go down there.

[203] So I'm hoping that she doesn't think that that door is already open.

[204] She does.

[205] She does.

[206] But the trick is, can you make a trip down there, sit down, be very clear.

[207] We'll be very clear.

[208] love you.

[209] Because we love this baby, we want to coach you and help you.

[210] But it's going to be, we're going to show you how to get on your feet, not we're going to give you money to get on your feet.

[211] And she may give you the middle finger.

[212] It's a better than a 50 % probability based on my experience.

[213] But if she, she may have been just, it's sad, but sometimes folk in these situation will use a baby as a method of manipulation.

[214] Well, that's the thing I would probably caution against with David just to be really careful because obviously they love this this little boy and so there's probably a part in them that wants to try to control the situation because in their minds like we have the means like we understand money we understand how to take care of this kid and so I think that they have to really guard their hearts in this situation because like you said yeah it's so sad yeah but I think what she's got to have is she's got to have some mentors and some people in her life that's why I said plug her into a good church Let's get her started walking on a character path.

[215] It didn't let her get, because obviously based on what you said, she's been struggling with that, and you're afraid she's going to fall back off of that.

[216] And when she gets that character thing straightened out, then you can show her the mechanics of the money piece.

[217] But she's going to have to go to work, and she's got to feed three kids, and we're going to have to figure out a way to cause her to be able to do that with some community support, and that community will help her if she's heading in the right way.

[218] And you can probably line that up.

[219] And I think you're a wonderful person for investing into this.

[220] But just be very careful that you're not being manipulated because that sometimes is the only skill someone has.

[221] And they're very skillful in some cases.

[222] I'm not saying that's true about her 100%.

[223] But it's just something I would personally be careful with if I was walking into this.

[224] I'd want my eyes wide open.

[225] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -25 -2 -25 Royces in Dallas, Texas.

[226] Hi, Royce.

[227] How are you?

[228] Good.

[229] How are you, Dave?

[230] Better than I deserve.

[231] What's up?

[232] So I am a finance, or I guess you say graduate finance student.

[233] I'm getting my MBA, my undergrad and finance.

[234] Cool.

[235] And so you know how all them are.

[236] Yep, I do.

[237] They teach you to go out and leverage and so on and so forth.

[238] Okay.

[239] The financial situation that I'm in is I'm completely dead free.

[240] I have $100 ,000 -ish -something dollars of invested money in Morgan Stanley, and then I have some other stuff through some 401Ks.

[241] I have $30 ,000 in on -hand cash, and I have an opportunity to buy a $50 ,000 house.

[242] Would you leverage some part of it, the renovations, would you buy it off cash?

[243] Because my whole thought pattern is if I leave that money working and do parts of it, so like finance 25, cash $25, cash on the restoration, it allows some of my work and some of my money to still be working.

[244] Yeah.

[245] Well, back when you had common sense before you got your MBA, you would have never done that.

[246] Right.

[247] And so I agree with you on that partly.

[248] So my thing is, is so do you think that there's ever situations where that would come in?

[249] Because I know the situation you got in.

[250] No. I do not borrow money.

[251] And I do not tell people to borrow money, especially for investment real estate.

[252] Pay cash for it or don't do it.

[253] because the risk, you increase your risk, and what they don't teach you in the MBA program is to mathematically factor in the risk.

[254] They act like with the formulas they teach you, their formulas, the formulas that I learned, the same ones that I'm getting a finance degree, are fairly simplistic in that they do not address the risk issue.

[255] And the more you borrow, the more risk you have, we know that.

[256] And nowhere in anything you learned in that MBA program, does it increase the, does it decrease the, does it decrease, does it decrease, the returns based on increased risk because of debt.

[257] There's not a formula that they have in that program that shows you that.

[258] And yet that is reality.

[259] So every time you borrow money, you increase risk.

[260] The more money you borrow, the more risk.

[261] The less money you borrow, the less risk.

[262] And risk does affect return over the scope of time.

[263] And so don't do it.

[264] Don't do it.

[265] The borrower is slave to the lender.

[266] God is smarter than your MBA professor.

[267] This is the Ramsey Show.

[268] So here's a quick math refresher.

[269] There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money.

[270] So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system.

[271] NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform.

[272] So join the more than 37 ,000 smart businesses like Ramsey solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite.

[273] And right now you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at NetSuite .com slash Ramsey.

[274] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[275] Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[276] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[277] Open phones here on the Ramsey show.

[278] Phone numbers, triple eight, two, five, five, two, two, two, Emily is in Washington, D .C. Hi, Emily.

[279] How are you?

[280] Hi, Dave.

[281] Thank you so much for taking my call today.

[282] Sure.

[283] What's up?

[284] We just have a quick question.

[285] My husband and I are wondering if we are being selfish with a family financial decision that we're making.

[286] I'm going to preface it by saying that we are in total agreement on this, and he would be the one to have a conversation with his family.

[287] So the overall situation is that he has many siblings, and we try to get together and go on vacations or just have family gatherings fairly often.

[288] However, his youngest sister does have a very different financial situation than the rest of us have.

[289] So we've covered her expenses anytime we get together and particularly going on vacation.

[290] Usually not a big deal is just a few hundred extra bucks.

[291] However, there has kind of been an expectation to pay and there is conversation around going overseas to where they are from originally, where the family is from originally for a bigger trip in 2025, which would, if we covered her expenses, it would cost us thousands of dollars.

[292] That's just not in our budget.

[293] It's not something we can do.

[294] It would already be kind of at the top of our budget to begin with.

[295] But in kind of expressing this decision, not being able to cover her, her husband or her, five kids.

[296] It's really ripping apart our family because we're being told we're being selfish by not helping her out.

[297] Wait, sorry, it's her husband and her five kids?

[298] And who's telling you you're selfish?

[299] The other siblings.

[300] How much of it were they covering?

[301] They were, we've always kind of split things fairly equally.

[302] And so if we split it three ways, it would still be a few thousand for all of us.

[303] Can I ask why?

[304] Can I ask why?

[305] What's the situation that everybody is floating them?

[306] Yeah, that's a great question.

[307] So some of it, I would say it's lifestyle choices, just in the fact that they live in a small town.

[308] Her husband doesn't have a big income, and then she's chosen to stay home and homeschool.

[309] The kids have a bigger family.

[310] The more you tell me, the more I'm laughing internally.

[311] Like the more you tell me about this, the more I'm realizing how ridiculous this expectation is.

[312] And yeah, that's, there's no obligation.

[313] Anything that you've done before, you kind of did set up maybe an expectation.

[314] But you did that out of the kindness of your heart, as it sounds like the other siblings did.

[315] But just because someone is kind and decide that they want to give one time doesn't mean that they're obligated to give every time and at the whatever limit that other person decides, right?

[316] If I were you, I would have no, when I tell you, I would lose zero sleep over saying, I'm not going to fund this.

[317] It's too expensive, period.

[318] And you don't have to give a bunch of reasons.

[319] Just, hey, it was fun for us to be able to do that before.

[320] With this trip, we're not going to be able to help out.

[321] And by the way, probably going forward, you know, we've decided that the faucet has turned off at this point.

[322] Especially with the way you folk have reacted, yeah.

[323] Yeah, no gratefulness.

[324] gratitude turned into entitlement and so um yeah the the the issues this what you're discovering and it's sad um and i've run to this everybody's run into this henry cloud talks about this in his classic book boundaries that um when you someone doesn't respect your boundaries it means they feel entitled to uh walk in your yard to take your money to they feel entitled to your money and then when you set a boundary with a boundaryless person roughly 100 % of the time it pisses them off almost every time right and so once you say you can't play in the yard it's my yard and you can't come over here there's a fence here you should stay on your side of the fence you know that's a boundary in other words then the people who have gotten used to treating your yard like it's their yard and they go oh but we're but we like playing in your yard and so no you can't play in my check book anymore.

[325] There's not room for both of us.

[326] And so I'm going to declare it mine and I'm going to close the gate.

[327] The gate was open and now the gate's closed.

[328] And since you're bitching about it, I'm going to leave the gate closed forever.

[329] That kind of goes there too.

[330] So that's the way, I mean, and as far as the other siblings whining about it, it falls under the category of Nunya.

[331] Nunya business.

[332] go kick rocks exactly and here's the thing i thought you were going to lay out some hardship or something that was kind of outside the box but truly it's choices yeah choices and and so you chose not to be able to afford to go on this international vacation with your five children um which by the way most people you know i i never even saw the ocean until i was a teenager so i mean i grew up in tennessee so i mean come on i mean it's like that that's what that's what people that don't have money do you know so it's you don't get to do stuff that people with money get to do it's how that works and so yeah um gosh i'm sorry though i'm sorry it's bringing a pain to y 'all and i wish i wish i had something other than smart i like things to say that would actually make this go away because it they because it won't but it won't go away and so you're just going to have to smile and say gosh i'm so sorry y 'all feel that way i love y 'all but this is our decision and you don't have to you don't i would not justify it i wouldn't talk about the decisions they need to make different.

[333] I wouldn't talk about enabling.

[334] I wouldn't talk about entitlement or boundaries.

[335] I would just say this is our decision.

[336] We love y 'all.

[337] And gosh, I hope it doesn't, I hope you don't permanently cut us off.

[338] But if you do, then that's what you'll have to do.

[339] And gosh, I sure hope not.

[340] But we love y 'all.

[341] And no. The good news is you and your spouse are on the same page about this.

[342] That's the only way.

[343] And you already prefaced it with he's going to handle his own family.

[344] Bless his heart.

[345] yeah it's a it's a thing man it's a thing so oh wow yeah I've had some of these conversations I mean when we went broke and lost everything so Sharon has five brothers and sisters and there's 13 grandkids okay of which Daniel is the youngest okay so Rachel's one of the youngest in other words and so that family they've all done very well and they're wonderful people and everybody gave everybody something at Christmas well I completely screwed that up because I went broke and I didn't have the money to give everybody everybody something.

[346] Yes.

[347] And so we were there at Thanksgiving and they're talking about Christmas and I said, guys, I'm sorry, I got bad news.

[348] I, we just can't do that.

[349] We just went bankrupt.

[350] We don't have to be money.

[351] And so we're going to have to draw names.

[352] And my suggestion also is the children under 12 get gifts from other people, but everybody else is treated as an adult and gets one gift from another adult and we all just draw names and no to their credit I'm bragging on my wife's family they all said that's a really good idea because I think this other one sucked it was getting out of control and I'm glad you brought it up but I was kind of Sharon Sharon's like they're not going to like that and I said I know they're generous sweet people they're not going to like it but we don't have any money oh man we can't play anymore we don't have the we can't pay the ticket to play in this we can't get into this place anymore we can't pay the ticket and so this is the only thing we can do and so we love y 'all but and they were instead they were all like well thank god somebody else said you know and so that that family that was 30 years ago we've drawn names ever since for 30 years now that's great so sometimes it's a good result but but it wasn't someone that felt entitled that's right in that a conversation instead or mature, good, solid people who respected the pain that we were in at the time and how embarrassing it was for us to have to say that out loud and all of that.

[353] I mean, you imagine sitting at your in -laws Thanksgiving dinner and announcing.

[354] I have been there.

[355] And my story didn't go as well, Dave.

[356] Oh, no. Oh, no. You know, you caused trouble with the in -laws, did you, Jade?

[357] You know, I said maybe we give names.

[358] Who knew, Sam?

[359] Maybe we draw names.

[360] I didn't know she was that way i wouldn't have known it all right you know there you go well here's the thing we're still drawing names to this day so oh even though there was some kicking and screaming to begin with but it's okay it's a good thing it's a good thing well you know how i feel adults don't need to buy other adults gifts i heard you talk i heard rachel and george talking about you the other day on their show saying that i like that so there we go get your own blender learn to get your own blender aunt gertie this is the ramsie show one of the questions i get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy?

[361] A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add -ons that are simply a waste of money.

[362] You need to get this done and make the right decision.

[363] That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance.

[364] Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend.

[365] They also save you time, whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision.

[366] This is an absolute necessity, and Zander has made the process easy and convenient.

[367] Call them at 800 -356 -4282 or visit zander .com for instant online quotes.

[368] Well, the Ramsey cash giveaway is here.

[369] Look at this.

[370] That's $3 ,000 right there.

[371] Ooh.

[372] I said this yesterday, and Dr. John Deloney thought he was getting a bonus.

[373] When I saw it there, I thought I wondered if it was for me as well.

[374] But it's not.

[375] It's not.

[376] Not for you.

[377] It's for some lucky person.

[378] We're going to give away $500 a week and the grand prize of $3 ,000.

[379] How would you spend $3 ,000 if you wanted?

[380] I hope you'd work your baby steps.

[381] You might just have to buy some groceries.

[382] It could happen that way.

[383] These days, it wouldn't last that long at the grocery store.

[384] But anyway, hey, it takes 15 seconds to enter the Ramsey Cash giveaway.

[385] It's completely free.

[386] You can enter every day to increase your chances to win at ramsysolutions .com slash giveaway.

[387] No purchase is necessary.

[388] You've got to be 18.

[389] That's the law and stuff.

[390] So for a limited time, you can get 20 % off on our store in our store on all of our bestsellers, like Dr. John Deloney's latest bestseller, building a non -anxious life on sale for the very first time.

[391] The questions for human conversation cards are on sale.

[392] My number one bestseller, the latest one, is the Baby Steps Millionaire's book, which includes the white paper in the back, all the study, the research done on the millionaires, the real millionaires in there.

[393] So pretty cool stuff.

[394] All of that's on sale.

[395] So whether you're ready to kick debt to the curb or you want to live a less anxious life, check it out.

[396] You can get 20 % off and shop the sale at Ramsey Solutions .com slash store.

[397] Joshua's in San Antonio, Texas.

[398] Hi, Joshua.

[399] How are you?

[400] Hey, Dave.

[401] How are you doing?

[402] Better than I deserve.

[403] What's up?

[404] So my wife and I, a few months back, were presented an offer or deal for my parents to buy their house from them.

[405] So through them and not a mortgage company, so pretty much like a rent -to -own.

[406] We had about $60 ,000 in debt.

[407] So we decided to sell our first home and take their deal.

[408] So we use that money to pay us about $30 ,000 in debt, the equity from our, to sell the house.

[409] So my question is, is after we pay off a little bit more debt, which we have about $30 ,000 left, is it smart for us to continue to pay the house through my parents or get a mortgage loan?

[410] So you simply just took over the payment.

[411] There was no paperwork?

[412] There's no payment.

[413] The house is paid for and you're paying them payments.

[414] No, so my parents have a mortgage and we're paying.

[415] We've agreed on a price to buy the house.

[416] The house, the price that they're selling it to us, quote unquote, is below market value.

[417] They're selling it to us at the county appraised.

[418] Which is what?

[419] $340 ,000.

[420] And market value is like $3 ,000.

[421] And what do you guys make?

[422] Um, right now I make about $75 ,000 a year.

[423] Um, my wife is with, uh, my two kids.

[424] Okay.

[425] And we were, we did have a house.

[426] We were paying, um, that one was out $240 ,000.

[427] We outgrew that house.

[428] That's why this house was a bigger house for us and we just outgrew it.

[429] Yeah, so your take, your take home pay is what?

[430] About 72 ,000.

[431] Oh, that's your take -home pay, $72 ,000?

[432] Yes.

[433] Okay.

[434] All right.

[435] And so we're dealing with like $6 ,000 a month, and your payment on this mortgage is how much?

[436] $2 ,000.

[437] $2 ,000.

[438] That's a lot.

[439] It is a lot.

[440] And so we went from $13 ,000 at our...

[441] You went from being able to afford your mortgage to not being able to afford your mortgage is what you did.

[442] Yeah.

[443] We did get to pay off.

[444] like you said, $30 ,000.

[445] Yeah, but you still have $30 ,000 in debt left, right?

[446] Yes.

[447] And you gave your parents $30 ,000 already?

[448] No, we have not paid then.

[449] I paid off your other debt.

[450] That paid off the other $30 ,000 of debt you have.

[451] Yes, that paid off $30 ,000 in debt, yes.

[452] I thought you got $60 out of the house when you sold it.

[453] No, we got $30 out of the house when we sold.

[454] I had $60 ,000 in debt.

[455] Oh, okay.

[456] You've got no money now.

[457] I have a little bit in my savings, and then what we have, what I make, obviously.

[458] What's in your savings?

[459] How much savings do you have?

[460] Right now we have $3 ,000 in savings.

[461] Okay.

[462] So $3 ,000 in savings, you've got a mortgage that you're paying.

[463] That's a third of your take home.

[464] Dude, you guys have made such a big mess.

[465] I don't even know where to start.

[466] This is a disaster.

[467] Here's the problem.

[468] Okay, you're a renter.

[469] You do not own the house and you're not on the mortgage.

[470] And you do not have the money to purchase the house because the purchase of the house to get a mortgage will require a down payment.

[471] Mortgage companies don't just give 100 % loans.

[472] And so you don't have the money to purchase the house.

[473] And you can't put the house in your name with that other mortgage on there because that mortgage, has what's called a due on sale clause in it that if they transfer the title to your name at the courthouse, the mortgage company is going to call that mortgage due in full and foreclose on your butt.

[474] And so you guys have made a huge mess because you didn't know what the flip you were doing.

[475] All of you just thought you could just slop around and this would work out just because you wanted a bigger house.

[476] This is awful.

[477] So I think the only way that I can see out of this is for you guys to take six jobs and quickly put together some money for a down payment.

[478] How much is the balance on the mortgage?

[479] 90 ,000.

[480] Okay.

[481] And you're buying the house for 300?

[482] Yes.

[483] Yeah, they're selling it to us.

[484] That's the agreed amount.

[485] Okay.

[486] All right.

[487] Yeah, you're going to have to sit with a mortgage company and figure out how, you're, You can either your parents gift you another 30 ,000 out of this remaining equity and they show that as a down payment on this house and you get a mortgage and get the house into your name for God's sakes because if your parents have some kind of a problem that even they didn't mean to have they are in a car wreck and get sued for $500 ,000 and the insurance doesn't cover it the $500 ,000 lien will be against this house.

[488] because it's in their name.

[489] It's not in your name.

[490] So everything that they do ends up on this house because it's in their name, not in your name.

[491] So every day that you sit there acting like this is your house when it's not your house, you are in dire risk.

[492] And so that's why this is such a bad deal.

[493] Well, my question is, why can't you just agree to be renters?

[494] Why do we need to jump the gun to buy it?

[495] Why not say, okay, because there's nothing that points to any form of ownership.

[496] The parents own the house they're on the mortgage they're on the title so you can just sit there and be a renter just be a runner you can do that get in a better position to where you can do that except you went and rented a house you can't afford yeah they did you went and rented i mean it's yeah well they might do you have a two thousand dollar payment did that what he said he said two thousand dollars the 90 grand so they are they're making profit off of them they're not it's not it's okay so this is you know there's this was a bad plan top to bottom and I'm not real sure how you're going to get out of it other than quickly to come up with a down payment and try to qualify for the mortgage and get it get the house and the mortgage into your name that's the only thing I can come up with the sooner you do that the better off you're going to be because in the meantime you're just paying off somebody else's mortgage you went from being a homeowner to being a renter and if something happens with one of them and there ends up liens on this property, you're never going to get the property.

[497] And believe me, in 35 years of doing what I do, I run into that a lot because people who do bad deals have a tendency to do other bad deals.

[498] Sure.

[499] Yeah, that's a good point.

[500] Bad deal, meaning don't know what the flip you guys were doing.

[501] You just wandered backward into this and thought you could pull this off.

[502] And so, yeah, you really need to sit down and start talking about how you can get a mortgage, how much, how quickly you can save the down payment to do that.

[503] And if you can get any credit, from the equity reduction, from the price reduction, towards a down payment as far as the way the mortgage company looks at it.

[504] In other words, if they're willing to sell it to you for $3 .40, do we instead show it at $360 and the mortgage company shows that $20 ,000 as a gift from your parents?

[505] There's a possibility they can do that.

[506] So I would look into that.

[507] But this is a classic case of, I want a bigger house.

[508] I can't afford it.

[509] I did it anyway.

[510] And that's what you got yourself into, Joshua.

[511] I'm sorry.

[512] Wow.

[513] I hope you get out of this with your skin.

[514] This is the Ramsey Show.

[515] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show.

[516] Well, we help people, build well, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[517] Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[518] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[519] Marcus starts this hour in Los Angeles.

[520] Hey, Marcus, how are you?

[521] Hi, you two.

[522] Thanks for having me on.

[523] Sure.

[524] What's up?

[525] Yeah, I'm budgeting for a wedding.

[526] We're in the final steps.

[527] I talked to my dad, the biggest person, asked me what would Dave say.

[528] So we talked through that, but then I wanted to ask you and see what would Dave say.

[529] Okay.

[530] You said your dad's what?

[531] He was, he sanity checks my ideas.

[532] So he asked me what would Dave advise in this case.

[533] That's neat.

[534] That you guys have that.

[535] kind of relationship.

[536] Pretty cool.

[537] Okay.

[538] And so how much is the wedding going to be?

[539] So the wedding's going to be 80 ,000.

[540] This is everything, dresses, venue, housing.

[541] And then we're getting family support for 30.

[542] So out of our pocket, it's 50 ,000.

[543] And what do you guys make?

[544] Combined, it's roughly 340k a year.

[545] Okay.

[546] All right.

[547] And you have the cash.

[548] We have the cash.

[549] We don't own a home yet.

[550] So this decision delays buying a home.

[551] Mm -hmm.

[552] Mm -hmm.

[553] And you both looked at each other and said that out loud.

[554] Yes.

[555] And that's the trade -off you're both willing to make.

[556] Yes.

[557] Okay.

[558] All right.

[559] I look at these things in ratios.

[560] To start with, when I hear an $80 ,000 wedding, the first thing I do is pass out and I have to wake up.

[561] But after that, then I say, okay, you know, I'm really happy to hear your numbers are as good as they are.

[562] So the average wedding in America today is $34 ,000 annually.

[563] I mean, $34 ,000.

[564] And the average household income is about double that.

[565] And so if we say the average person in America spends half of their annual income on a wedding when they get married, then you're not spending that.

[566] you're not spending half your annual income, right?

[567] So, but it probably would change.

[568] Like, if the average person spends 10 % of their, I'll just make up a number, 10 % of their income on food, when you make a half million, you don't really want to spend 10 % of your income on food because you'll be big as a house, right?

[569] And so that wouldn't work.

[570] So somewhere of these ratios start to break down, but like now possibly, but you can afford to do this.

[571] You're paying cash to do this.

[572] it is not an unreasonable ratio as a percentage of your income and then you're willing to look at each other and say we're willing to spend you know on this one day and delay our house that doesn't sound right when you say that out loud but it's not the end of the world if you want to do it you can afford it So how long would it delay?

[573] Because you do have a good income.

[574] I'm imagining there's maybe some money saved in addition to this.

[575] So how far does it set you back?

[576] So I don't have a great answer on how far it sets us back.

[577] We're not in the immediate house hunting stage.

[578] Right.

[579] Of course.

[580] So it's unclear to me exactly how much it set this back.

[581] I would guess it's setting us back by four months to six months.

[582] That's nothing.

[583] No, it's more than that.

[584] But how old are you, too?

[585] I'm 30 she's 29 okay you're living in Los Angeles so and by the way when I asked that question I yeah I would say before you know I would not buy a house in the first year of marriage anyway so I wasn't intending to rush you I just wanted to know you know what your sites are set on as far as that's concerned this this is doable it's not insane the fact that it causes you to gulp a little bit makes you want to stop and go okay what is what's my motivator?

[586] Why is it that I can do this?

[587] Like, I've got a friend that makes 10 million a year.

[588] His daughter got married.

[589] They spent 100 grand on the wedding.

[590] Whoopee.

[591] Okay?

[592] No big deal.

[593] Right.

[594] But it's still shocking to those of us, you know, that are like regular people.

[595] And so, and that's kind of what your situation is.

[596] You're, you know, you're spending a shocking amount of money on a wedding.

[597] But it's not, it's, It's not mathematically insane.

[598] Does that make sense?

[599] Does this include the honeymoon trip as well?

[600] The trip?

[601] It does not include the honeymoon with points from credit cards, which we should get rid of.

[602] I don't think we'll end up paying much for it.

[603] I pulled.

[604] I revealed the skeletons in the closet.

[605] Sorry about that.

[606] The truth serum came out.

[607] Yeah, I think if I were.

[608] you two, I would just want to look at each other and say, why, we are spending three times the national average on our wedding.

[609] Why?

[610] And if you can answer that question, looking at each other and not say, because I'm an immature princess and I just want it, and I'm going to stomp my foot and have a red face, which I don't, I'm not accusing you of, then if you can answer that question logically and go, hey, it's something I've always wanted to do.

[611] We like a big part.

[612] with family and friends, which is actually what my friend said, that spent a bunch of money on his kid's wedding.

[613] He's like, our family likes to party.

[614] We like to celebrate big milestones.

[615] This is a fun thing.

[616] And it's why I work and I've got the money.

[617] Shut up.

[618] And, you know, that's great.

[619] It's some valid answer.

[620] It wasn't coming from some kind of entitlement or weird stuff or something.

[621] You know, so as long as you got all that stuff covered, your math is not insane.

[622] It's more, it's three times what most people do.

[623] but you make more than three times what most people do so you can afford to do it that's the idea that's the answer and joe jade you know that's a good segue almost into a lot of answers to questions you know it's uh sometimes in in the neighborhood i grew up in people would say stuff like no one needs a car that nice you ever heard people say stuff like that of course no one should ever dot dot dot you ever heard people they usually say it with that country accent You know, but it's like, you know, but nobody ought to.

[624] Nobody ought to.

[625] No Christian ought to.

[626] I mean, everyone knows that the accord is the Christian car because Jesus said they're all in one accord.

[627] So, you know, it's anything older, anything better than a 1993 accord is not Christian.

[628] We know that.

[629] Nobody ought to spend that.

[630] They're starving children in the world.

[631] That is called haterade.

[632] That's exactly.

[633] Sipping on that hater.

[634] And it's bitterness and it's envy.

[635] and so I had to kind of work through that once I started knowing wealthy people who were good people and they had nice stuff and I'm like okay like a buddy another buddy of mine made 17 million and he drove up in a $480 ,000 Lamborghini.

[636] I need to be friends with these people.

[637] It's like sweet you know and but if you do the ratios I mean so take a zero off it's $1 .7 million and you buy a $48 ,000 car or take another zero off.

[638] You make $170 ,000 and you bought a $4 ,800 car.

[639] It's the same ratio.

[640] So, of course, he should buy that car.

[641] It's nothing.

[642] It's like you and me buying a biscuit.

[643] This is the Ramsey Show.

[644] Jade Warshall, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[645] Thank you for joining us, America.

[646] We're so glad you're with us.

[647] Hey guys, the private student loan refinance is available.

[648] If you've got private student loans, you can refinance them with Y -Refi.

[649] Now, if you don't know about these guys, we've been advertising with them for a while.

[650] And I just started hearing, and there's all this chatter again.

[651] It comes and goes about the government forgiveness of student loans, and it just never really happens.

[652] And you still sit there with your student loans.

[653] And, of course, government forgiveness is all about federal insured student loans.

[654] it's not about private student loans anyway.

[655] So the average interest rates with Y -R -R -E -F -Y.

[656] It's the letter Y -R -E -F -Y.

[657] The average interest rate, if you've got a private student loan with them, and you refinance it with them, is 3 .9%.

[658] So a lot of you have got private student loans, and you're getting hammered with these guys.

[659] So don't do it.

[660] Go to Y -R -R -Fi .com slash Ramsey.

[661] Y -R -E -F -Y .com slash Ramsey.

[662] And, Jay, it makes a huge difference when you can get that lined up.

[663] Oh, 100 % because those private student loans, they can get in the double digits.

[664] And if you're behind, they can even take that loan over, reset it, and get you going fresh.

[665] Oh, that's excellent.

[666] And it's destroying your credit.

[667] So it's a big deal.

[668] Ed's with us in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

[669] Hi, Ed.

[670] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[671] Hi, Dave.

[672] How you doing, sir?

[673] Better than I deserve.

[674] What's up?

[675] Um, yeah, our church is growing and we're being blessed and, uh, uh, uh, they're wanting to build a bigger sanctuary and, um, you know, financial peace graduate, they're, um, this sounded a little off to me, but, uh, they want to do one third in cash, one third and pledge and one third in loan, which will really work out to be two thirds loan until the pledges come in initially.

[676] Mm -hmm.

[677] So using debt to grow a church is the question.

[678] Okay.

[679] Well, to start with, let's be very clear that this is not a salvation issue or a issue of blasphemous or something like that.

[680] Okay?

[681] I've got friends all through the church world that borrow money in their churches, and they're still friends of mine.

[682] They know I don't agree with them, but they're still friends of mine, just like I have friends that borrow money to buy a car.

[683] They're still friends of mine, okay?

[684] So it's not that kind of a thing.

[685] but my question are my I would want to make two major points in this number three number one I don't think you're going to stop them I don't think I'm going to stop them because I don't think they care what we think okay so they're going to they're probably going to do this it's probably not going to stop but conceptually or if we wanted to discuss it as if we could discuss it first thing I would say is I can find and I've studied it for 40 years I can find nowhere in scripture that there's one single positive reference to debt.

[686] Every time the Bible mentions debt, it is a negative connotation.

[687] Again, it's not blasphemy.

[688] It is not a sin.

[689] It is not at that level.

[690] But there's all kinds, the borrower is slave to the lender.

[691] You know, there's a lot of mentions a fool around the word debt.

[692] And it's a curse when Moses is not able to take the children of Israel into the promised land.

[693] Joshua instead does.

[694] God says, you know, here are the blessings and here are the curses.

[695] And the blessings, if God is blessing you, you will be a lender to other nations, a giver to other nations.

[696] If not, you'll be a borrower.

[697] It's one of the curses.

[698] And so it's a curse.

[699] and it's all those kinds of negative things mentioned because you're doing something you don't have the money to do.

[700] It's pretty simple.

[701] The other thing then is how does that play out when we escape the scriptural or when we sidestep the scriptural discussion of this because you really can't find it in there.

[702] Larry Burkett used to say there's no place in Deuteronomy where the Israelites were hemmed in the valley by the Amalekites and the Amalekites are getting ready to kill them so they did a bond issue.

[703] And they beat their way out with pledges.

[704] it's just not in the bible anywhere god is never in in his word he has never used debt to cause his kingdom to expand it's never once in there as if your church is the only place that someone can meet jesus and if we don't build this sanctuary they're going to go to hell that's absolute arrogance okay absolute arrogance it's not in the scripture now aside from that the other problem you get is that, well, before I leave that, Larry Burkett also used to say, and I've experienced this personally, that what happens is a lot of the men, sometimes the women, in the church that are successful in business, are appointed to the elder board, the deacon board.

[705] And so it's not unusual for your governing body inside of a church to look like Chamber of Commerce.

[706] It's a banker, a car dealer, an insurance agent, whatever.

[707] And so they then start to run the business of the church the way they run their business in the world.

[708] Rather than using Scripture to make the decisions, they use their MBA to make the decisions.

[709] And that's a theological breakdown, right there, a doctrinal breakdown.

[710] You shouldn't run a church the way run a business.

[711] There ought to be some overlay.

[712] There ought to be some leadership skills, that kind of stuff that there is an overlay on, but operationally and the financial principles are not the same because it's a different, it's a different calling.

[713] So now, back to the other, okay, so that's all under the heading of it's simply not scriptural.

[714] You can't find it in the Bible.

[715] Now, the second thing is, how does that play out in the real world?

[716] Well, 50 ,000 churches in America have now taught Financial Peace University.

[717] So, you, You might guess that I've had this discussion before.

[718] You might even further guess that we've got an amazing amount of data of what happens.

[719] The amount of times that a pastor is no longer the pastor 36 months after the building project and capital campaign, it's like 85%.

[720] Wow.

[721] 85 % of the time the pastor has gone within three years after a major capital campaign and building campaign for one reason or another.

[722] and we can't necessarily tie it exactly to that, but they just, it's, it puts a strain.

[723] What you're doing is you're putting an entire strain on the entire organism called your church.

[724] And part of that is the head of the church or the leader of the church, the pastor.

[725] And it's a big deal where I've, on the other hand, have had the wonderful experience of being around churches where they went the other way.

[726] The church I attend merged with a local church.

[727] and took on at that time $7 .5 million worth of debt that the church they merged with already had, and our pastor said, we're going to pay it off in 14 months, and they did, raise money to do that, instead of building buildings.

[728] And they're doing a $40 million project right now, and they raised 100 % of the capital, zero debt, not going to go back in debt, not because I go there, but I might go there cause of that, hello, and might have something to do with it.

[729] So take it a step further.

[730] So this is Ed's church.

[731] So if the church goes ahead and does this, a third pledge, a third cash, a third loan, if you're attending that church and you're listening and you go, man, I agree with what Dave said.

[732] What do you, do you participate as a person who's attending the church?

[733] Do you say, yeah, you know, I'll pledge, you know, I'll give my, I'll pray about it and I'll do whatever God lays on my heart.

[734] Or are you, Dave, or you're like, I'm not contributing to that.

[735] Well, there's two types of giving that we do.

[736] tithes and offerings.

[737] Tithe is a tenth of your income to go into your local church.

[738] That's not a negotiable for me. Right.

[739] If I have to not tithe because I don't believe in the church, it's time for me to leave the church.

[740] I got to go to a different one.

[741] Okay?

[742] And I would not leave a church over this.

[743] No, I wouldn't either.

[744] I mean, I just...

[745] But usually these pledges are obviously above and beyond.

[746] I'm not going to donate to the campaign if it involves debt, because I'm not going to give the money that God gave me to manage so they can give it to a stinking bank.

[747] Okay.

[748] There you go.

[749] Because stinking banks are just that.

[750] They're stinking banks.

[751] Ooh, Dave, I love when you just drive a hard line in the sand.

[752] It's just, you know.

[753] And that's why the Ramsey Family Foundation doesn't donate to ministries that run debt.

[754] I didn't know that.

[755] That's great.

[756] That's one of our, one of the things that Denise has to look at when we're going there.

[757] Do y 'all run debt?

[758] We can't give to you because you're giving God's money to a stinking bank.

[759] Wow.

[760] Can't stand stinking banks.

[761] This is The Ramsey Show.

[762] Thanks for joining us, America.

[763] Jay is with us in New York.

[764] City hi jay how are you i am good how are you doing dave and jade better than we deserve what's up uh so i'm calling regarding uh i started i've i've read your books early on in my career and i started following the steps and then got married just did not make a me and my ex -spouse did not kind of line on our same financial values but Just kind of moving forward to today, I'm 40 years old.

[765] I'm divorced, mostly due to financial reasons, just different alignment.

[766] But right now, I'm in a situation of rebuilding my life back.

[767] And I started going back through all the baby steps.

[768] And I skipped step one because they already had more than $1 ,000.

[769] And I started focusing on step two.

[770] And then I started jumping between step two and steps.

[771] because I was trying to build a six -month sort of, like, emergency fund in case I lose my job.

[772] I work in tech.

[773] I'm a product designer.

[774] And the industry for the past few years has been sort of volatile, where it's like six months, I don't have a job.

[775] And then I have a job, and that fear of not having a job, I still have to pay more.

[776] You're in tech, and you went six months without a job?

[777] Uh, yeah, it happens.

[778] Not really.

[779] I have friends right now.

[780] Uh, I mean, you kind of.

[781] You can't find tech people, man. I got six jobs on the board right now trying to hire people.

[782] Uh, it's kind of depends on what, whatever you're trying to do.

[783] I have friends right now currently that are from Google and Microsoft that are still unemployed and it's been eight months.

[784] So it happens, you know, the market's kind of flooded.

[785] But.

[786] So anyway, you're skipping.

[787] So you're making up your own plan.

[788] How can we help?

[789] All right.

[790] So I'm not making up my own plan.

[791] Yeah, you are.

[792] You're not following hours.

[793] You're doing yours.

[794] That's okay.

[795] How can we help you?

[796] I'm just jumping between.

[797] No, you're jumping between.

[798] But the concept of a baby step is you don't move to one until you get to the other one.

[799] And you start with $1 ,000 and anything over $1 ,000 that you have you put on baby step two and you pay off your debt's smallest to largest.

[800] That's the concept.

[801] But if you're not going to do that, it's okay.

[802] You can do whatever you want to do.

[803] How can we help you?

[804] So I got that anxiety, and I build out the fund.

[805] And then now I've been focused on step two fully.

[806] I paid off my car.

[807] I paid off all my credit cards.

[808] I have no debt.

[809] You're 100 % debt -free now.

[810] Outside of my mortgage and my student loan.

[811] Okay.

[812] So now you're on by step three.

[813] So not 100 % out of debt because I'm still paying my student loan, which is $70 ,000.

[814] So that was my last full focus, right?

[815] So I was like, that's what I'm going to focus on.

[816] Okay.

[817] Jay, how can we help you?

[818] But I just need my consumer debt.

[819] Well, that is consumer debt, honey.

[820] But anyway, how can we help?

[821] So my mom went into debt and her credit cards, and I started helping to pay her credit cards.

[822] I take care of my mom and dad.

[823] They live with me. Are they?

[824] Because they're ill?

[825] They are ill. My mom recently just had four strokes in three months.

[826] Oh, my goodness.

[827] It's not well.

[828] Okay.

[829] And they don't have any money.

[830] They don't have any money.

[831] They only have Social Security, which is $600 per person.

[832] So I'm kind of, and then she spends money.

[833] I cut up her credit cards.

[834] She only has one that I'm aware of that I just go, okay, if there's anything you need, just as long as I can watch it.

[835] I just cut that one up too.

[836] That should probably.

[837] What does she need?

[838] Yeah.

[839] She buys weird things on Amazon, and Amazon has that one -click buy thing, and it's just like random things show to my house.

[840] So she doesn't, my point is she doesn't need anything.

[841] How old is your mom, hon?

[842] My mom is 76, and my dad is 84.

[843] Okay, I'm going to sit down with them tonight, and I'll say, Mom and Dad, I love you, and I'm here for you, and I'm going to take care of you under this condition, under this condition that you're going to assign the Social Security.

[844] checks to me in return for rent and I'm going to feed you and give you a place to live and you're not going to use any debt at all ever you're not going to make a mess here because those people aren't going to get paid when she's borrowing money she doesn't have the money to pay them she's stealing because she doesn't have the money to pay them gets more complicated okay how could it possibly be more i started paying $1 ,500 a month to knock out her credit cards quickly.

[845] Why?

[846] $20 ,000 with a debt.

[847] Don't pay them.

[848] Don't pay them.

[849] Well, she went ahead and reached out to my older brother going, I feel bad causing your little brother so much burdens.

[850] Can we just consolidate this into a lower payment?

[851] And they worked out something and he got a city bank loan.

[852] But his agreement with my mom was that he, me, will pay the minimum payment, which is $500.

[853] That has nothing to do with you.

[854] A, that has nothing to do with you.

[855] The brother got involved.

[856] Now he's created his own mess.

[857] That is between him and your mom.

[858] Here's the thing.

[859] Your parents are getting up there in age.

[860] They have zero assets whatsoever.

[861] I would take the credit card so she cannot spend on it anymore.

[862] But what debt is left there when the time comes and she goes and leaves this earth, there's nothing there.

[863] That debt is not going to fall to you because there's nothing.

[864] follow his brother, because his brother wouldn't borrow money.

[865] Yeah.

[866] And again, that's why I said that's not your problem.

[867] Right, but that's not your problem.

[868] It's your brother's problem.

[869] But it's because of family politics and I just don't.

[870] And then this is another thing with politics and then something watching your show, it's don't borrow money from family.

[871] I would have never agreed to this setup because now I have a son and I've had child support.

[872] And anytime I try to do an activity with my son.

[873] You're not liable for that.

[874] Why are you doing?

[875] Good Lord.

[876] You're adding yourself to the situation and you don't have to add yourself.

[877] By the goodness of your heart, you said, Mom, Dad, you can come live with me. I agree with Dave that you take the Social Security checks, cut up the credit cards, and these are the stipulations in which you can live with me, and I'm happy to take care of you, period.

[878] If you want to use the Social Security money each month to send it over to your brother to pay that bill, that's fine.

[879] That's your prerogative.

[880] But don't let them run up any more money, honey, because every time your mother borrows money, she's stealing.

[881] Because those people are never going to get their money.

[882] Never.

[883] Because she's broke, and she's ill health.

[884] and she's approaching 80 years old.

[885] And when she dies, they get nothing.

[886] So when she's borrowing money and they're going to not get it back, that's stealing.

[887] Because you and I know they're never going to get their money.

[888] And I'm not going to participate in her doing that.

[889] That's wrong.

[890] It's morally wrong.

[891] And you're not liable for any of this.

[892] So what you need to do is get your freaking act together, including paying off this ridiculous student loan and use your emergency fund to do that and get yourself on a budget and set your parents' issues over to the side.

[893] You are not responsible.

[894] If you want to take them on and feed them and clothe them and house them, that's fine.

[895] You've got $1 ,200 a month to your budget to do that minus whatever you decide to send your brother for the stupid mess he made.

[896] But you guys have kind of quit running this stuff in circles.

[897] You're taking each other down.

[898] You're all going to go to the bottom of the ocean and drown together if you keep this up.

[899] You're just creating this whirlwind.

[900] I mean, this funnel.

[901] and it's just going around and you're going right down the toilet together riding around going whoopee look at you look at you you're stupid everybody pointing across the toilet at the other one as they go down the drain gravitational pull yeah and it's like you did it no you did it no you did it no you did it and it's like jeez and i would have never agreed to that and all this crap just say no we're not doing this calm everything down and quit putting your money in the middle of this stuff yeah because he mentioned And he has child support.

[902] You've got to take care of that baby and you've got to get yourself straightened down.

[903] And you're very generous to offer to take care of them.

[904] But it doesn't sound like you're really doing it out of the goodness of your heart.

[905] It sounds like you all have a ridiculously toxic family.

[906] And you got pulled into it for that reason.

[907] So you guys need to relook that whole situation, set some fresh boundaries, get some help with the relational aspects of this.

[908] And you need to really draw some lines, man. Definitely do not use your money for this.

[909] Definitely.

[910] You didn't cause the mess, and you got a big enough mess of your own.

[911] This is the Ramsey Show.

[912] Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[913] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[914] Jade, when Rachel Cruz was a brand new baby, can you imagine that, little Rachel Cruz.

[915] Her older sister was two and a half, barely walking, good.

[916] We put these wonderful little angels to bed, and their mother and I were watching a perfectly good TV show.

[917] We glanced up the top of the stairs.

[918] The toddler is standing at the top of the stairs with the brand new baby in her arms, bringing her down the stairs to us.

[919] because as you might imagine Rachel Cruz was making noise and Rachel Ramsey at that time and yeah I did the same thing you're doing right now for those of you looking deeply in the radio Jade is gasping and holding her clutching my pearls clutching her pearls that things are going this is not going to go well because we all know that the weak can't help the week adults should carry children down the stairs not toddlers, broke people can't fix financial problems for broke people.

[920] Y 'all get the metaphor yet out there?

[921] Hello, look deeply into your podcast and get this.

[922] When you're broke and dysfunctional, taking on the rest of your broke and dysfunctional family is not going to make you less broke and dysfunctional.

[923] It's going to make you more broke and more dysfunctional.

[924] So if you're, I'm not ever, I have been broke and dysfunctional and at the same time and separately at times.

[925] So I know what this looks like.

[926] I'm not above that.

[927] And everybody gets a different starting place.

[928] Some people get a better start out of the gate than other people.

[929] 100%, you know, Jade was saying, you know, at the break, you know, thank God, my mind allows me to make decisions and I can see things clearly.

[930] And not everybody gets that starting point.

[931] That's right.

[932] You know, but it doesn't matter where you start, you can choose from today forward to make different decisions.

[933] Because you know down inside of you, you can feel it when you're stomach.

[934] tightens up and those muscles across the back of your shoulders tighten up that you're getting ready to do something stupid and then later on when it turns out to be stupid you know when you look back i've done this and all of you have done it you know when you look back and you go you know when i was doing that i was thinking this is stupid but i went ahead and did it anyway how many of you can everybody testify amen right i mean everybody right everybody's done this so the trick is to stop that pattern because the proverb says a wise man sees danger and stops, a fool goes forward and suffers for it.

[935] So I get the right.

[936] If I come out of a background, a family, if you come out of a background or a family, or you come out of an area of the country or a socioeconomic way of thinking, whatever it is you're coming from, you have the right.

[937] You have the right.

[938] right to put the negative parts of that in your rearview mirror.

[939] You have the right to say, I'm not going to think that way anymore.

[940] I'm going to do this other thing this way.

[941] And that may mean that some of the people around me are not going to understand when I make different decisions.

[942] Because I remember one of the famous things that you say, and it's because it grabs me around the throat every time you talk about it is, and you talk about this in your book, that around your family they had a saying and you had to say okay i'm not going to have that saying yeah talk about that we ain't got no money that that was the phrase that was the phrase that was the reason that we couldn't go forward and you know we ain't got no money got no money it was the answer to everything the answer to everything in all the various forms i ain't got no money for that you know i ain't going to do that and it was just the constant you know kind of stop the door slamming in your face and I think that to your point Dave no matter where you come from those things they get inside of you and they feel like they're part of you until you rip them out and that is painful and you say things like people like us yeah ain't got no money yeah people like us that's the way they do it I don't know what people like us but if there is a people like you whoever you are listening right yeah and you can you can you can you can say okay people people that come you know people that come out of this type of the situation this is yeah and it's like a buddy of mine says he grew up in the hood.

[943] And he said, you know, getting out of the hood is easier and getting the hood out of you.

[944] 100%.

[945] That's what I'm saying.

[946] It gets in you and you have to do the very hard work of separating yourself from that previous identity, you know, because I used to look and see people.

[947] And it's not looking down on someone.

[948] No. It's just saying that crap don't work.

[949] Well, it's like you said, it's a different starting point.

[950] Some people came into the world and, you know, if you were a second generation Ramsey person, your parents taught you sense with money and taught you a sense of...

[951] Now, Rachel had a better starting line than I did.

[952] That's right.

[953] And I had a better starting line than my dad.

[954] That's right.

[955] And so on.

[956] You know, and so that's one thing you want to give your kids.

[957] It's a better starting line.

[958] But it's not just math, starting line.

[959] It's the ability to make decisions, the wisdom, the ability to look at something and think differently, the ability to think in abundance rather than scarcity.

[960] Yeah.

[961] And really just to be able to take that moment, like you said, where something occurs and you take the moment to reflect on that and go, you know what?

[962] Like you said, I felt that that wasn't right, or I felt that something about that didn't feel right.

[963] And when you take the moment to reflect, then you can go, okay, next time a thought like that pops up, I can kind of grab it before it makes me go in the wrong direction again.

[964] And so, John Maxwell uses this example.

[965] He tells the story in terms of a leadership story, but it also applies to this discussion.

[966] years ago before laws were the way they were now these researchers in a psychology department put a group of chimpanzees in a room a big pole in the middle of the room with some bananas at the top of the pole if a chimpanzee would climb up the pole to get the bananas they would take a water can in a fire hose and shoot him knock him off of there every time a chimpanzee would try to climb the pole to get the bananas they knock them off different ones would look around they'd talk about it they'd huddle they'd make all these decisions and finally a brave one would go up again boom gets knocked off boom gets knocked off boom gets knocked off so any and then pretty soon they didn't have to shoot the water cannon if one tried to go up the others would pull it down because they said we know it's going to happen to you if you try and then they changed the chimpanzees out a little bit of the time to where after after a while they had changed enough of them out that none of them in the room had the memory had the memory memory, the communal memory, of the water cannon knocking them off the pole, they didn't know why you weren't allowed to climb, but it was just people like us don't climb.

[967] And so if someone tried to climb, the other chimpanzees would pull them down and they didn't even know why.

[968] It had been ingrained into the community.

[969] And so that's how this stuff can work in such a negative way.

[970] And a family can do that.

[971] A family system that's broken can do that.

[972] they'll pull you back down and they don't even know why don't even know why oh Dave that's so good that's so true it's so so true and you know in the South people to say stuff like you're getting above your raisin you ever heard that one no that's different that's that's different that's different that just means you think you're too good yeah you think you're too good you're too good you're getting above your raisin has nothing to do with raisins in a box it's like the way you were brought up the way you were raised and so you're getting above your raising and so yeah that means you think you're haughty or you're you're something else oh yeah and it's like and i always and after a while when i heard somebody say something like that i thought yeah absolutely i know that is absolutely the freaking goal that's that's exactly what i want to do and by the way it's what i'd like for my kids to do and i'd like for my grandkids to do better than yeah absolutely every one of you ought to get above your I know that's right.

[973] Everybody, because these toxic systems in a community that are brought based on scarcity and fear and lies and mythology, and the community could be your family, the community could be the area of the country, the type of folk you were raised with, whatever, they'll tell you to fail.

[974] And we just spent the last seven minutes telling you eight minutes that you don't have to fail.

[975] I don't know where you start from, but I do know where you're going.

[976] not everybody's got the same starting line but they all got the same finish line get after it boys and girls get it get you some live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships jade washout ramsay personality is my co -host today thank you for joining us we're glad you're here Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[977] Jesse is in Phoenix.

[978] Hi, Jesse.

[979] How are you?

[980] Right, how are you?

[981] Better than I deserve.

[982] What's up?

[983] Hey, man. So I just called in.

[984] So recently, I just got out of prison.

[985] I have no debt.

[986] I have no kids.

[987] So I'm just trying to find out where I can direct my life to a better, to a better pass.

[988] Good for you.

[989] How long were you in prison for?

[990] Two years.

[991] What'd you do?

[992] Instead of being a businessman and other things, it became a businessman in there and started selling drugs.

[993] I got caught with like a legal enterprise, just a bunch of stuff that I should have never done in the first place.

[994] Okay.

[995] Cool.

[996] so you had an entrepreneurial spirit and used it in the wrong place in the wrong place yes yeah well that's good news because you can you're right you can use those same set of skills in a legal not an illegal enterprise and um probably prosper how old are you i'm 24 okay good for you cool so are you working at all uh they now i'm working as a tow truck driver but this is like my first real job.

[997] So I do like it, but it's not the same money where I was making, but it gives me the courage or the ambition to chase a, I'm making 13 a year.

[998] And is that, what's your living situation?

[999] I have to go back with my mom.

[1000] And I'm happy to God I still have her.

[1001] Or else I don't know what else I would have done.

[1002] Okay.

[1003] Okay.

[1004] How long have you been out?

[1005] When did you get out?

[1006] I've been out for six months.

[1007] Okay.

[1008] Good.

[1009] Good.

[1010] So, so far, you've got a place to live, and you've got some money coming in, and you have a job that's legal.

[1011] That's a really good start.

[1012] That's a good start.

[1013] So, and, like you said, while you're doing this, you start to think about what's the next step.

[1014] What's the next step?

[1015] What's the next step?

[1016] What's the next step?

[1017] And by the way, you're probably going to be thinking that for the rest of your life.

[1018] We all do.

[1019] What's the next step?

[1020] What's the next thing?

[1021] What's you got next for me, God?

[1022] Where are we going from here?

[1023] And so, who you're running around with these days?

[1024] I have no friends.

[1025] Okay.

[1026] Other than friends, I say, I mean, like, I have zero, like, two friends.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] Like, I just have my girlfriend.

[1029] I've been together for eight.

[1030] years but I mean I mean you're starting fresh because you know you know better than to go hanging around with the folks you were hanging around before so you're starting fresh um listen I love that to Dave's point you know you've got a place to live you've got a a job that's paying you something I like the fact that you're going okay I'm not going to be a tow truck driver forever what's the next step what are you interested in that's the thing I don't know I sit down and I really think about it.

[1031] I don't know.

[1032] I really don't have family that has prospered, like, in life, like, as in, like, a business, anything like that.

[1033] Honestly, I'm, like, the first person that graduated from high school.

[1034] Mm -hmm.

[1035] And I have five, I have two sisters and three brothers, so, I mean, I'm just still.

[1036] only one that really that really did.

[1037] So you're looking for a mentor.

[1038] You need somebody that you can look to.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] Tell you what, I'm going to hook you up with a friend of mine that's, I'm going to hook up with a friend of mine that's a pastor there.

[1041] His name's Cal. And he's a pastor of a big church there in Phoenix.

[1042] And I'm going to hook you up with him.

[1043] And he's going to get some guys around you.

[1044] Because here's what I know, Jesse, and you already know this, too.

[1045] You become who you hang around with.

[1046] and so you've got to be very selective about who you put around you, particularly at this time in your life.

[1047] And so plugging you into a good church community with some good men who can show you a direction to go and some next steps.

[1048] I don't think we can do everything you need to do in one radio call.

[1049] You've got a lot of things, you've got a lot of potential, a lot of wonderful things can happen in your future, and I don't think we're going to be able to line up everything for you to do in one call.

[1050] That's right.

[1051] But the first thing was got to get, or the next thing is get some, community around you and then I want you to continue to do what Jay just challenged you to do and let's think about all right what is something that I see out there what's a problem that people in Phoenix have that I can help them with their problem because as an entrepreneur Jesse I'll tell you when you help someone with their problem they give you money okay I mean if the if it's lawn care you solve their problem if it's pressure washing you solve their If it's fixing their car, you solve their problem.

[1052] In your case right now, the company you're working for is removing cars from places they shouldn't be.

[1053] You solved a problem or taking someone's broken car somewhere.

[1054] You solved a problem.

[1055] So when you solve a problem as an entrepreneur, people pay you money for that.

[1056] And it's amazing what you can do to create income when you see something and you go, gosh, if I helped people with that problem, I could probably charge for that and they would let me do that.

[1057] And I want you to start thinking along those lines because I do think I wasn't joking around.

[1058] I think your entrepreneurial spirit that got you into trouble could also, when applied right, be the biggest blessing that ever happened to you.

[1059] I agree.

[1060] 100%.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] So I'm going to hook you up with Cal. I'm going to put you on hold, and Christian's going to pick up our phone screener, and I'll get you, he's going to get your information, and we're going to get you hooked up with that community.

[1063] And the other thing I want you to do is I'm going to give you a code.

[1064] to take Ken Coleman's assessment, his career assessment, and it's a free, it's going to be free to you, because I'm going to pay for it, test for you to start to say, okay, these are my strengths, and that could maybe spark some ideas of some next things to do.

[1065] And then patiently saying, God, thank you for this tow truck job, even though it doesn't pay much, because at least I got one.

[1066] And then patiently, while being grateful for where you are, start making the steps to be where, to never be there again and to move to a better place and then to a better place and then do a better place.

[1067] Don't jump.

[1068] Don't, don't try to get moving too fast.

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] There's no, there's no easy money out there.

[1071] It's all hard money.

[1072] I want you to get hooked up with better help too because you've, your life has changed greatly over the past two and a half years and that's a lot to work through.

[1073] You've, you know, your family, the way you interact with your family is different.

[1074] You said you didn't have any friends.

[1075] And so I think it would be good not only to get plugged in with the church, but really to be talking to somebody on a normal basis about how to navigate this.

[1076] Yeah, that's a good plan.

[1077] It's a good plan.

[1078] So hold on.

[1079] We're going to take care of all that for you.

[1080] We want to be part of this next chapter of your life that's a good chapter.

[1081] And we're going to help you solve a problem.

[1082] There you go.

[1083] That's how this works.

[1084] Hang on, Jesse.

[1085] We'll take care of you.

[1086] This is the Ramsey show.

[1087] Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1088] Thank you for you.

[1089] for joining us, America.

[1090] We're so glad you're here.

[1091] Today's question of the day comes from Rebecca in Wisconsin.

[1092] Yeah, she says, we paid off our home in 2021.

[1093] Since then, we've struggled financially and have not been able to budget for paying our annual property taxes.

[1094] Should we save up for this through the year and pay it in a lump sum?

[1095] Or should we try to save a certain amount to pay it quarterly?

[1096] Could we really lose our paid off home over unpaid property taxes?

[1097] Yikes.

[1098] Uh, honestly for me this question property taxes are the least of your concerns i you guys have got some things going on financially that um this shouldn't be an issue uh but yeah whatever you want to do if you want to pay you know do a sinking fund get get into your every dollar budget and say okay what do i need to save up every single month what do i need to set aside every single month so that when these become due at the end of the year or whatever the money is there you could do that using a sinking fund.

[1099] If you wanted to pay them quarterly, if you have the money in your budget that you want to do it quarterly, usually you get a little bit of a discount in some cases, right?

[1100] If you can pay them in a lump sum.

[1101] But I read this, Dave, and I just don't think that.

[1102] I have more questions and answer.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] How do you struggle financially when you don't have a house payment?

[1105] That means you don't have a job.

[1106] It means you're not working much.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] So something's got to give.

[1109] You got to go create some income, kiddo.

[1110] This is a symptom, as you would say, Dave.

[1111] Yeah, you've got to go create some income.

[1112] And then when you do that, this property taxes, if you don't have a house payment and you're struggling financially, there's something really going on.

[1113] I mean, I guess it's possible that you went on some kind of ridiculous spending spree and screwed it up, but it's most likely that this is an income problem.

[1114] Well, yeah, and the fact that she's projecting it out over the course of, you know, a year and a quarter, for me, yeah, you could really lose your home.

[1115] I mean, if you don't pay your taxes.

[1116] Yes, you have to pay the taxes they'll put a lien against every state in america they will sell your house front -bate property taxes every state so yeah yeah yes you can listen yes it's a real thing yes it's very possible but here's the thing uh you know it's a glaring honking horn blaring whistle when you say i paid off my home and i'm struggling financially everybody everybody listening to this right now is going what and so it must be income and so then so we know what we got to fix and it's not how you budget for property taxes it's your problem your problem is you've got an income problem and yes then I would just set it up in your every dollar budget and pay it monthly any of us that have paid for properties that pay our insurance on the properties we pay our taxes on the properties we set up a monthly withholding out of them you know out of our budget and it builds up, and then when it comes due, the money's sitting there in a sinking fund in a savings account, a labeled area in your every dollar budget, and you'll have the money.

[1117] It's very easy to do.

[1118] And then you just pay it on time and annual, and you back into it.

[1119] Same thing as Christmas, all right?

[1120] They don't move Christmas.

[1121] You know, you know exactly how far it is to Christmas right now.

[1122] You can look it up the exact number of days.

[1123] And, you know, how much do you need for Christmas?

[1124] It doesn't sneak up on you.

[1125] They don't move it.

[1126] That's right.

[1127] So, if you're not ready for how can we afford christmas well you you start thinking about it now yeah and you start saying okay out of the income hello that i'm creating i set some aside walkers in jacksonville florida hey walker welcome to the ramsie show hey dave how are you better than i deserve what's up yeah so um the the the root of my issue is i took out a loan for 17000 250 $50 per car that Kelly Blue Book says it's worth $6 ,500.

[1128] Ooh.

[1129] Why did you do that?

[1130] Well, the salesman was really convincing, obviously.

[1131] He's so convincing you paid three times what the car is worth?

[1132] That's just weird.

[1133] They kept all that under the table and didn't show me. They actually told me that was the wholesale price.

[1134] And I'm like, that sounds kind of funny.

[1135] That doesn't even make sense, though.

[1136] What kind of car is this?

[1137] It's a 2018 Ford EcoSport, a compact.

[1138] How old are you?

[1139] I'm 20.

[1140] So you walked in there by yourself and you had somehow enough sense to get to the dealership, but while there did not realize that an $18 ,000 car is a $6 ,000 car.

[1141] That seems kind of weird.

[1142] It's very weird.

[1143] Did you do any research on this car, you know, before you walked in?

[1144] Like, this is what I want to get.

[1145] This is what they cost.

[1146] I walked in with my only criteria being four doors.

[1147] Did you have a phone with you?

[1148] Did I have a phone with me now?

[1149] Wow.

[1150] Now, they pulled up the, they didn't have the Carfax or anything like that.

[1151] So what's even worse is this car is a lemon because, like, I bought it with $68 ,000 on it, and it already had an engine put in it.

[1152] And now it's in the shop long term for an issue that the manufacturer hasn't even, like Ford, hasn't released repair instructions for the mechanics.

[1153] So they, like, I'm on a long -term dealership loaner right now.

[1154] So my follow -up question is, obviously, I want to get rid of this car because I'm going to have to throw a bunch of money in it if I keep it.

[1155] So questions are, should I keep it?

[1156] in the, you know, and just hope and pray that it's reliable enough that I can pay it a loan down to where I won't have too bad negative equity because that's about, what is that, 8 ,000 than negative equity.

[1157] What do you make, Walker?

[1158] About 22 ,000 a year.

[1159] Working 40 hours.

[1160] Working, well, I'm active booty military, and I really don't work that much, but 22 ,000 a year.

[1161] So I have in the credit union, I have about 60.

[1162] When did you buy this car?

[1163] October.

[1164] Okay.

[1165] What branch of the military are you in, son?

[1166] Maybe.

[1167] Okay.

[1168] I want you to go see your senior officer in your area and tell them about this car company screwing you.

[1169] And I want him to go with you over to the dealership and see if he's, He can't help you work this out because this company is preying on young, stupid, new enlistees, and the senior officers don't take kindly to that.

[1170] And I want you to solicit some help from someone who knows how to talk to people who are crooks who take advantage of his men.

[1171] Okay.

[1172] If someone sold you a car that is worth $6 ,000 for $18 ,000 and you're 20 years old and your newly enlisted Navy, they were screwing someone who's serving our country and your senior officer knows that they are preying on the guys just like you and he will help you and he'll bring JAG involved if he needs to or whoever else because these guys are crooks.

[1173] right and you need some help with someone that's got more life experience than you to walk in there and really more muscle honestly I'm not sure he can do anything legally and I'm not suggesting he would physically threaten them although it's probably possible but I want you to get your senior officers involved and JAG involved and I want you to go physically over to the dealership and I would like for them to just right canceled through all of this and take care of it and you walk away clean that's what my goal would be it might be that you end up having to write a check for three or four thousand five thousand dollars to get away from this but i want you to get away from it as far away from these people as you can get as fast as you can get and then start fresh and next time you get ready to make a major purchase do your homework and have some people who are more experienced than you about that major purchase in the room with you okay that makes sense yes sir absolutely you know i'm not making fun of you walker you were a innocent lamb led to the slaughter and i'm not okay with that as a taxpayer who loves the military it pisses me off and so i want you to get some people in your in your branch there you're some of your senior officers and jag involved and i want this stopped because this happens folks if you don't know No, outside military bases all over America, every day.

[1174] They're stupid on both sides of the road just as soon as you leave the gate and all up and down the street.

[1175] And they will screw these guys and gals, and they do.

[1176] It's awful.

[1177] I'm sorry, Welker.

[1178] You deserve better from your fellow countrymen.

[1179] This is the Ramsey show.

[1180] The best way to make the most of your money is by telling it what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[1181] That's called a plan.

[1182] living intentionally with your money.

[1183] The only way you win at anything is intentionally.

[1184] No one accidentally wins.

[1185] And you have to tell your money what to do.

[1186] You need to give every dollar of your money an assignment, a name, a mission every month.

[1187] That's why we call the world's best budgeting app every dollar.

[1188] It makes it simple to plan your spending, to track expenses, to save what matters most.

[1189] It's an easy to use app.

[1190] It fits into your busy life.

[1191] Keep a pulse on your spending.

[1192] Make progress on your money.

[1193] goals.

[1194] We'll show you how to do every bit of it.

[1195] Help you walk the baby steps, help you do the sinking funds we talk about.

[1196] Everything's there.

[1197] Download every dollar for free in the app store or at Google Play today.

[1198] Every dollar.

[1199] Tens of millions of people are using this.

[1200] Thank you guys, by the way.

[1201] It's a huge success.

[1202] Are you doing another webinar soon?

[1203] Not a webinar, but I will be doing a demo of every dollar at our Total Money Makeover live weekend event.

[1204] So that's coming up May 10th and 11th Week from Friday and Saturday Yeah coming up fast You know the thing Let me just say this About every dollar that I like Especially for couples Is I feel like Because it's on your phone It's on your mobile device It can be on your desktop I feel like it bridges the gaps Of communication That sometimes you have With money when it comes to your spouse Because you might forget to say Hey I did this or that But because it's on everybody's phone It's kind of happening in real time You can see oh they went to publics They spent you know $15 dollars or oh he did pay the mortgage you don't even need an iPhone tracker you'll know where they were based on their pattern of spending oh you went to the mall today okay what were you doing over there I love every dollar so fun very good Dan is with us in Cleveland Ohio hi Dan welcome to the Ramsey show hi Dave and Jade so I obviously have a problem but I want to give you some background on our financial situation that I think will be important contacts okay on to the problem we're having.

[1205] So I'm 33.

[1206] My wife is 32.

[1207] Our combined household income is 375 ,000.

[1208] We have 150 in my wife's 401k, 85 in mine.

[1209] And the reason there's less in mine is because I use the COVID forbearance to pay off 82 ,000 in student loans.

[1210] So I'm student debt free now after law school.

[1211] We have about 210 ,000 in the money market account.

[1212] We have 40 ,000 in a Reed.

[1213] We owe $188 ,000 on our house, and it's appraised at $475.

[1214] We have $20 ,000 in our daughter's $5 .29.

[1215] We have a 15 -month -old daughter, who's beautiful.

[1216] Sounds like you're doing good.

[1217] Congratulations.

[1218] Thank you.

[1219] But we also owe $20 ,000 in my wife's car.

[1220] The issue we're facing is we're outgrowing our house.

[1221] It's like an 1 ,800 square foot house.

[1222] It's 120 years old.

[1223] And we moved here because it was a young professional neighborhood.

[1224] We love the neighborhood.

[1225] But eventually we're going to want a bigger house for a bigger family with a yard and things we want our daughter to have.

[1226] But the issue we have is, and it's a blessing in a lot of ways, too.

[1227] In about 18 months, I'll be up for partnership at my law firm.

[1228] And the buy -in is $250 ,000.

[1229] And so we're kind of at this crossroads where we want to figure out, you know, how and when do we upgrade a home?

[1230] Do we hang in, do we hang here as long as we can?

[1231] Because we want to be able to pay as much of the partnership cost up front as possible because the options are we, the firm gives us a loan that we would then pay back through essentially garnishment we pay with cash up front or the percentage of the revenue we bring in through billing or otherwise is taken away.

[1232] So we want to make sure we can pay as much of the partnership up front as we can.

[1233] How long ago, you have $210 ,000 in a money market.

[1234] Way to go, Dan.

[1235] Of the $375, how much is your income at the law firm?

[1236] $300.

[1237] Okay.

[1238] So when you become a partner, if you wrote a check for $250 ,000 and pay them, what will your income be instead of $300?

[1239] How much will that increase your income?

[1240] First year partner is typically around $450 ,000.

[1241] Okay, she'd add $150 ,000 by writing a check for $250 ,000.

[1242] Correct, yeah.

[1243] So what?

[1244] That's great.

[1245] That happened quick.

[1246] I like it.

[1247] Now, how long ago did you have zero before, and now you've added $210 to the money market?

[1248] I didn't make more than $15 an hour until I was 27.

[1249] 303.

[1250] How long ago did you have zero, and now you have $2 .10?

[1251] Six years ago.

[1252] six and so so i i took you six years to see no no no no no no no no you didn't add the 210 and you added it in the last four years or three years yeah and my my wife came into this with savings too before we got married she had 50 or 75 i think she had 75 okay so she's a great saver so you guys have saved the 150 000 of the 210 i'm guessing in the last 24 months yeah 24 36 months that's what i'm guessing that's what i was that's where i was that's where i thought you were going to tell me. Okay.

[1253] All right.

[1254] So this is an easy one.

[1255] Very easy.

[1256] You mean you've got...

[1257] Write a check and pay off your wife's car today and get on a tight budget and make sure you have $250 ,000 in the money market account.

[1258] You've got $40 ,000 in a reet.

[1259] So you've already got the money to do this today and it's 18 months away.

[1260] So set $250 ,000 aside in a money market to pay cash for the partnership and above that start saving for the next house.

[1261] Yeah, which is not going to take it too long.

[1262] You've got 18 months making 375 to save to move up in house.

[1263] So the year you become partner and your income goes up 150, you're going to be able to move up in house with cash and write a check for cash to buy out the partnership.

[1264] What am I missing?

[1265] Yeah, it's the timing of it.

[1266] Like, we went and saw a house.

[1267] Oh, there's the problem.

[1268] Quit looking at houses.

[1269] You're broke.

[1270] You got 200.

[1271] Hey, man, you don't buy a house and not buy this partnership position.

[1272] No way.

[1273] No way.

[1274] Suck it up, Buttercup.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] The houses will be there.

[1277] No way.

[1278] The 250 here's, that money's earmarked because 250 is going to pay you 150 more in one freaking year.

[1279] Your break even on this like 16 months.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] This is like gold, man. This is like printing money in your basement.

[1282] We just, we want to make sure our daughters.

[1283] She'll be good.

[1284] She's 15 months old.

[1285] Your daughter has parents that make 400K.

[1286] Your daughter is going to make it.

[1287] This much space.

[1288] Seriously.

[1289] She's inside, not getting rained on, and being fed. She's going to be okay.

[1290] How old is your daughter?

[1291] 15 months.

[1292] Oh, God, she doesn't even know.

[1293] That's why I said she takes up this much room.

[1294] She's okay if she's got Cheerios for God's sakes.

[1295] Oh, my gosh.

[1296] It's not.

[1297] No. No, dude, really, you're fine.

[1298] Don't blame this on your daughter.

[1299] You and your wife went and got house fever.

[1300] Y 'all already have it picked out, don't you?

[1301] Don't go to the freaking prey to homes, man. Every time we go to the parade of homes, it causes me to buy a house.

[1302] It's awful.

[1303] No, don't go.

[1304] Yeah, you just, listen, your brain quit working for a minute because you got house fever, and so we're here to help you with that.

[1305] Yeah, just delete it.

[1306] I appreciate it.

[1307] Hey, Dan, you have done so good.

[1308] Listen, here's the thing.

[1309] You got two big things on the plate, house law firm, okay?

[1310] Partnership, right?

[1311] Partnerships done with the math you gave me. Yeah.

[1312] So you write a check today, pay off hers, move some of that reap money or don't move it, but earmark the reap money and 210, that's your $250 you need.

[1313] You don't need it for 18 more months.

[1314] It's going to sit in the high yield and make some money between now and then.

[1315] That money's spent.

[1316] Pretend like you don't have that money.

[1317] Now, I make 375 headed towards 500.

[1318] I want in 18 to 24 months.

[1319] Based on that, I'm going to start saving to move up in the next 24 months into a better house.

[1320] And about the time you get to become partner and your income goes up 150, you're going to be able to make the move.

[1321] right but I'm not putting that partnership in jeopardy for a stinking house noop noop noop nope nope nope nope nope this is too sweet I also like that they'll be buying a house then based on the income that they actually have versus a projected income you know what I mean someday yeah yeah that's exciting wow what a great job you've done Dan you guys are awesome right in the bell you go buy this house and then don't have the money to buy the partnership when the time comes that's a regert that'd be a bad one Yeah, that's a regret right there.

[1322] Right there.

[1323] That'd be bad news.

[1324] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1325] Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 32 -8, generous people plan to do what is generous, and they stand firm in their generosity.

[1326] I've never read that.

[1327] I know I've read that because I've read scripture, but I have to go back and look that one up.

[1328] Maya Angelou, I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both hands.

[1329] That's good.

[1330] You need to be able to throw something back.

[1331] Oh, that's good.

[1332] Chris is in Athens, Georgia.

[1333] Hi, Chris.

[1334] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1335] Hi, how are you?

[1336] Better than I deserve.

[1337] How can I help?

[1338] I've listened to you for years and love you show.

[1339] Thank you.

[1340] My question is I'm 50 years old.

[1341] I've got, I think, I owe about $40 ,000 on the house and about one year on the car, and I'll be debt -free.

[1342] And I have the opportunity to leave my job at 50 years old with 30 years.

[1343] and I have a little over 750, well, a little over 700 ,000 in my 401k in my pension.

[1344] And I'm just scared that I can't, you know, make it.

[1345] Okay, what do you make a year?

[1346] I make about 60 and my wife makes about 40.

[1347] Okay.

[1348] And you can't touch your 401k to your 59 .5 without penalty.

[1349] Will your pension pay out because you've had been there so long and retire?

[1350] Will you start receiving on it?

[1351] I can take a lump sum of like $245 ,000 on my pension, and I've got about $483 in my 401K.

[1352] Yeah, which you can't touch until you're 59 .5 and you said you're 50.

[1353] And if you take a lump sum on the pension and you use it, you're going to pay penalty on it, so we don't want to do that.

[1354] What will the pension pay out monthly if you don't take the lump sum?

[1355] Well, my financial advisor, there's a tax thing that you can use that will only put it down to 10%.

[1356] So if I take my, he said that if when I decided to leave that the full amount of the 401K will go into IRAs and the pension, which is a little over 70, 740.

[1357] and I'm just scared if I'm doing the wrong time.

[1358] If it goes into IRAs and you take it out before you're 59 and a half, you're going to be penalized and taxed.

[1359] There's not a tax thing that allows you to use it early.

[1360] I mean, you can do some minimum withdrawals, but they're so small you won't be able to eat on them.

[1361] So, well, let me just move on then, okay?

[1362] Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

[1363] It sounds to me like you're ready to be done with this job, like past ready.

[1364] So you're only 50, only 50 years old what do you want to do with your life dude you're not going to sit on the fish and sit on the bank fish no i'm going to get another job but okay that's what i want to do so what i would do is yes i would retire i would roll this money to an ira the 401k in the lump sum pension and uh let it continue to grow don't touch it don't worry about it and then you and your wife go make a living yeah and you don't have to have the money because between your new income and her income you all can make a living you're just fine you're you're millionaires you've done a great job yeah uh my question is you know if i'm doing the right thing because they froze our retirement no listen what do you think i mean what do you want to do what are you going to do with your income i mean what are you going to what career are you going to go into when you retire what's your new job uh just i'm making three or $400 a month.

[1365] Why?

[1366] You're worth a lot more than that.

[1367] Why would you only do that?

[1368] My financial advisor, he told me that, you know, I can bring home more after I leave off of the earnings of my money.

[1369] No, you can't.

[1370] Okay?

[1371] You can't take $60 ,000 a year out of $750 without penalty and taxes.

[1372] 50 years old.

[1373] There is a minimum withdrawal process, but the numbers are very, very small that you can get out of there.

[1374] I would not do that.

[1375] I want you to go make $60 ,000 or $100 ,000 a year in your new career.

[1376] Crap, you're only 50 years old.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] Go make some money, dude, and leave this money alone and let it grow.

[1379] And you and your wife making 40 and you making 60 or 100, y 'all go have a great life and then just let that money.

[1380] Because here's what'll happen.

[1381] If you leave that $750 alone instead of screwing with it and put it into good mutual funds and let it every 10, you know, if you put it in an average is 10 %, it'll double every seven years.

[1382] So at 57, you're going to have a million and a half.

[1383] At 64, you're going to have $3 million.

[1384] At 71, you're going to have $6 million if you keep your hands off of it and let it sit there and grow and double and grow and double.

[1385] and the way you do that is you go have a life you don't sit on your butt at 50 years old so yeah i would go get me a next career we call it an encore career chris you take a bow after the first act the curtain comes up and there's a whole new segment to the play the encore it's what they do what the artist comes back out after the crowd is cheering so loud that's when they play what they really want it when they really wanted to play yeah and that's when they play the songs they wanted to play.

[1386] That's exactly why we call it an encore career.

[1387] So you come back out and do what you've always wanted to do.

[1388] I don't care if you open a business.

[1389] I don't care what your new career is.

[1390] But go make you some money and you and your wife leave this money alone.

[1391] Yes, I would retire.

[1392] But under those circumstances.

[1393] The other thing is, it's not good for you at 50 years old to plan to spend the next 40 years till you're 90 doing nothing.

[1394] That is not good mentally.

[1395] It's not good.

[1396] It's not good spiritually.

[1397] It's not good mentally.

[1398] It's not good relationally.

[1399] You'll get fat.

[1400] It's not good for you.

[1401] Your wife will get annoyed with you.

[1402] Like go do something.

[1403] Exactly.

[1404] Yeah.

[1405] Go figure out and you got half your dadgum life left.

[1406] What are you going to do with it?

[1407] You're just middle age, man. Go go do something big.

[1408] What is it you always wanted to do?

[1409] You got this other thing in your, in your rearview mirror, made yourself a millionaire.

[1410] Way to go.

[1411] Now leave this other money alone and go have your, go be somebody.

[1412] Go be somebody.

[1413] Go do something.

[1414] Dave, if you had to have an encore career, what would it be?

[1415] Me?

[1416] I'm just saying.

[1417] Well, here's the thing.

[1418] What's the other thing you would do?

[1419] You're going to be just like Rachel, because Rachel plays these games when we're at Thanksgiving.

[1420] It's like, if you had a secret life, what would you do in your secret life?

[1421] And I'm like, listen, you know what I do?

[1422] I do what I want to do.

[1423] So if I was going to do something different, I would already be doing it.

[1424] Come on, Dave.

[1425] Like, I got to know.

[1426] Would you be a chef?

[1427] Rachel's like, yeah, that's just no fun.

[1428] You're no fun at this game.

[1429] And I'm like, if I wanted to be a secret agent, I would have already been.

[1430] a secret agent, okay?

[1431] If I wanted to be a rodeo writer, I would have already been a rodeo writer.

[1432] I would have already gone and done it.

[1433] Why do I have to wait until, no, go do it.

[1434] You don't want to be a stunt man or?

[1435] I jumped out of an airplane the other day.

[1436] You did.

[1437] You did.

[1438] I mean, it's like, no, I don't want to be a stunt man. They got all broke up.

[1439] I don't, it hurts.

[1440] I don't like pain.

[1441] But no, I mean, if I don't like this, I would have already been doing something else and y 'all wouldn't have a job.

[1442] It's a game, Dave.

[1443] I know it's no fun.

[1444] It's not good for the game but it's it but it's the truth so the point of the whole thing though is you do get to choose you get to choose you don't have to be one of those that's right you're not stuck just stop doing that go do the other one you know it's like wow you ain't stuck it's pretty cool it's no fun for the game though I spoil all those spoil all those dreamer games because I've been living the dream you've been living the dream all right yeah if I wouldn't me I'd want to be me that's pretty freaking awesome, Dave.

[1445] Oh, that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

[1446] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1447] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[1448] If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization, because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do.

[1449] I know from experience.

[1450] I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership podcast.

[1451] I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization.

[1452] One episode could change your business.

[1453] Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.