Build Wealth by Doing What Rich People Actually Do

[0] from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build well, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[2] Thanks for joining us America.

[3] Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Networks, and Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[4] As we talk about your life and your money, the phone numbers, AAA, 825 -5 -225.

[5] Caroline is with us in, uh, Carolyn is with us in Washington, D .C. Hi, Carolyn.

[6] How are you?

[7] I'm doing great, Dave.

[8] Thanks for taking my call.

[9] Sure.

[10] What's up?

[11] My question, my question today is about spending a lot of money on a big trip for my family.

[12] Cool.

[13] Sounds fun.

[14] Yeah.

[15] Do you have a lot of money?

[16] Um, I, that's the question.

[17] I retired last year.

[18] And I feel like I, I'm doing pretty well.

[19] I guess the question is, if I don't have all the money saved, is it okay to take it out of retirement?

[20] We're going to Disney for my whole family, and it's like 20 people.

[21] And you're paying for the whole thing?

[22] I'd like to.

[23] Okay.

[24] It's for my retirement.

[25] And how much do you have in your nest egg?

[26] About $1 .1 million.

[27] Okay.

[28] And so you're going to spend, what, $40 ,000, $50 ,000?

[29] Right.

[30] I think I'll have about 30 ,000 saves by the time we go.

[31] And we live on my pension.

[32] My husband and I live on our pension and his Social Security.

[33] So I haven't taken any money out of there, and I don't have any debt.

[34] How old are you?

[35] Sixty -two.

[36] Yeah, I think you ought to do it.

[37] You do?

[38] Even if it's a lot of money?

[39] Yeah, it is a lot of money.

[40] But you have a lot of money.

[41] You're a millionaire.

[42] You're a millionaire.

[43] I know, I just don't spend like that, and it's really hard to spend money.

[44] Well, that's how you got a million dollars, and I don't think you're going to do it again.

[45] And the reason I don't think you're going to do it.

[46] I don't think you're going to do this every year.

[47] This is probably a one -time hit.

[48] And by the way, your $1 .1 million, if it's invested in good growth stock mutual funds, it should make another $100 ,000 this year that you're not going to use because you live off your pension, right?

[49] Right.

[50] So it'll be $1 .2 million.

[51] So you're spending some of your income.

[52] Okay.

[53] You're not actually spending out of the nest egg.

[54] Does that make sense?

[55] Yeah.

[56] Well, I mean, it feels like if I'm taking it out of there.

[57] You are.

[58] I will end up taking it out of there, some of it anyway.

[59] I mean, if you take $20 ,000 out and you save $30 and you spend $50, yeah.

[60] That's a lot of people and a lot of Disney, but that's your choice and you're, you live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

[61] Here you are living and giving because you're having your family go, but it's something you get great joy out of watching all those little kiddos run around Mickey Land.

[62] That's right.

[63] That's right.

[64] I took the whole stinking bunch on a Disney cruise one time, the whole bunch, the whole fam -dammy, and they all, they all loved it.

[65] I hated it.

[66] Yeah.

[67] But they loved it.

[68] Well, it's a one -time thing.

[69] Yeah, I just, I was just, my job was to pay for it and be quiet and let them enjoy it and not ruin it with me being a grouch.

[70] So I, but it was, Jesus, great.

[71] Did you wear the, Mickey ears?

[72] No. I would have forced that on.

[73] I'm just, I'm part of the Ramsey family, but that's, yeah, it's just not my gig.

[74] Okay.

[75] I'm sorry, but that's, um, it's a lot of small humans.

[76] May or may not have bathed well, trapped on one boat.

[77] Okay.

[78] That's all I'm saying.

[79] And so, um, yeah, including the ones we brought with us.

[80] And so there, there are no exception.

[81] But anyway, it was fun.

[82] They had a blast.

[83] We've got great pictures with every freaking princess that ever was a princess or thought about being a princess and every character.

[84] And Rachel Cruz was in heaven because Disney's her thingy.

[85] And so she probably instituted this whole thing and talked me into paying for it.

[86] I promise you without knowing.

[87] Have fun.

[88] Yeah, you know, have fun.

[89] This is what you've worked for.

[90] Go do it.

[91] Enjoy it.

[92] And don't think a thing about spending too much money because it's not too much.

[93] That's right.

[94] You probably don't need to do this.

[95] twice a month but you're up but if you do it once and you know it's a big one -time celebration you're going to be in great shape you've done a wonderful job handling money your millionaires I'm so proud of you congratulations this is why you've done all that stuff to get to do this with all the grandbabies and the great grandbabies or whatever it is that all these all these people add up to be in your group there have a blast yeah I was just going to say that I would stop thinking about how much you're spending because you've just walked through it with Dave and this is a priceless memory if you make it to a grand old age and we hope you do.

[96] This will be something that you will think about and reminisce about for a long time.

[97] And I don't think you can put a price tag on it.

[98] And I think this is a great decision.

[99] Go and have an absolute blast.

[100] Yeah, absolutely.

[101] Get a couple extra toys.

[102] It's why you do that.

[103] Well, pay extra for the front of the line passes or whatever the crap it is.

[104] What do you call that stuff?

[105] Fast pass.

[106] Is that what it is?

[107] I don't know.

[108] There's actually a couple levels to that.

[109] There's a fast pass.

[110] Take the top level.

[111] Take the top level.

[112] Do not If you're going to spend that kind of money, do not be inconvenienced by the other people that are there.

[113] Yeah.

[114] Nobody wants to stand in line for the log ride or whatever the thing is.

[115] You and I are the worst possible people to ask these questions.

[116] It's too bad our resident Disney expert.

[117] Rachel is not here.

[118] We should have phoned her.

[119] We should have phone a friend.

[120] Phone a friend.

[121] Arnold's with us in Baton Rouge.

[122] Hey, Arnold.

[123] How are you?

[124] Hi.

[125] Better than I deserve.

[126] Good.

[127] What's up?

[128] I have a question.

[129] I'm 24.

[130] I've been out of college for a year.

[131] My wife is 21, and we own a house.

[132] We're both engineers.

[133] I make 85, and she makes 93.

[134] And we got one of those FHA loans for our mortgage.

[135] And we put 3 .5 % down, and I'm trying to at least get to that 20 % ASAP to get rid of the PMI.

[136] We're a little over $270 ,000 left, and we're putting it.

[137] an extra $1 ,100 a month in principle only.

[138] Rock and roll.

[139] How can I help?

[140] So we're at 6 .5 % right now.

[141] I'm wondering, I hear these rumors that the mortgage rates are going to go down later this year or later on, and I know you can refinance, but like, what's the rule or your guidelines for that?

[142] Just a break -even analysis.

[143] It's a break -even analysis.

[144] And so let's say that rates dropped from, yours is this six and a half, you said?

[145] Yes, sir.

[146] Let's say you could get a four and a half.

[147] That's a two percent spread.

[148] And let's say you got 200 ,000 by then still outstanding.

[149] So 2 % of 200 ,000 would be $4 ,000 a year you would save.

[150] Right?

[151] Okay.

[152] And if your refinance costs is $8 ,000, how long at $4 ,000 a year savings does it take to break even?

[153] Two years.

[154] If you're going to be in debt long enough to break even, right?

[155] then you would talk about refinancing.

[156] Okay.

[157] And you could do it on 1%, you can do it on a half a percent, but obviously at a half a percent, it's going to take you seven, eight years to break even, and it's probably not going to make sense.

[158] But anywhere from one percent north of their savings, you can start running the calculation.

[159] But it's simply take your savings annually and divide it into the closing costs of the refinance.

[160] And that's how long it takes you to get back to even for having refinanced.

[161] then everything from there is gravy on the biscuit, right?

[162] That's a break -even analysis, and that's how you would do it.

[163] That's how you decide.

[164] But obviously, we don't have to worry about that today.

[165] This is The Ramsey Show.

[166] I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[167] Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[168] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

[169] When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills?

[170] I'm going to eat next week.

[171] Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

[172] Like it's just, it is.

[173] It's terrible.

[174] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[175] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[176] And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[177] It doesn't cost much.

[178] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[179] You got to say it out to put this stuff in place, the cost of stinking pizza.

[180] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -4282.

[181] That's 800 -356 -4282, or go to Xander .com.

[182] Ken Coleman -Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[183] Thank you for joining us, America.

[184] Open phones at AAA 8255 -2 -2 -25.

[185] Frankie is in Greenville, North Carolina.

[186] Hi, Frankie.

[187] How are you?

[188] Hi, Dave.

[189] I'm good.

[190] How are you?

[191] Better than I deserve.

[192] What's up?

[193] So I have a pretty straightforward question.

[194] I talked to my dad yesterday, and he wants me to pay for his life insurance policy.

[195] He said, I should think of it like an investment, and he doesn't want to actually pay for it himself.

[196] So I just wanted some advice on maybe how I can talk to him about paying for his own life insurance, or should I pay for it myself?

[197] That's so weird.

[198] Isn't it?

[199] Yeah.

[200] When you heard that, you had to go, say what?

[201] I don't know if you said it out loud, but you said it in your head, didn't you, Frankie?

[202] I did, and he said it to my mom, and he said, you know, because he's not going to be receiving any of the benefits, I was like, well, I mean, that's kind of the point.

[203] He was saying, since he's not going to be receiving it, I should pay for it.

[204] Yeah.

[205] Since I can think of it like an end - How old are you?

[206] I'm 24.

[207] And how old is he?

[208] 65.

[209] Is he ill?

[210] Not necessarily.

[211] I mean, he has some health issues, but I mean, for his age he's...

[212] But his death is not imminent as far as we know.

[213] Right.

[214] Yeah.

[215] Yeah.

[216] So you could be doing this for like 30 years.

[217] Yeah.

[218] Yeah.

[219] I think that's a hard pass.

[220] That's a big N -O.

[221] Nope, nope.

[222] Let's just call that.

[223] Let's check the box beside, nope.

[224] Now, your question was, your question was, though, how do I talk to him about it?

[225] Just go, Dad, you know, I'm 24.

[226] I'm going to be doing other kinds of investing rather than in your death.

[227] And I don't think we're going to go this way, but thanks for the offer.

[228] Yeah.

[229] Okay.

[230] Yeah, I think that Pretty simple You don't need to be snarky about it Although it's really tempting But it doesn't serve any purpose Just be snarky about it Other than it make you feel Just because it's just strange And he knows it's strange And I don't know Your dad does stuff like this often, doesn't he?

[231] Yes, he does Yeah, he's got quirky, quirky, quirky dude Okay Yeah, I just I would just smile And say, dad, you know, thanks for the offer.

[232] I've kind of thought about this and I talked with my financial guys and they said I should just be doing regular investing rather than investing in your death and I'm just not comfortable doing that and so, but thanks for the offer.

[233] No. And I really wouldn't go into a bunch of, I wouldn't go into a long, lengthy discussion about it.

[234] It's just a two sentences and no. Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to play this back for him later.

[235] Okay, that's fine.

[236] You could tell him, I said, obviously, he's quirky, but because that's a really quirky thing to say to your 24 -year -old daughter, dude, if you're going to play it for him, I mean, I wouldn't do that to my 24 -year -old daughter.

[237] You've got other things you should be doing with your life rather than investing in your dad's death.

[238] I mean, and besides that, mathematically, it's a bad investment.

[239] Because insurance companies make money on insurance.

[240] Right.

[241] The probability of his death is, and the payout is less than the premiums that they think they're going to receive.

[242] If they don't receive premiums equal to the payout before he dies, they lose money on the insurance.

[243] And if they do that often enough, they go out of business.

[244] So insurance companies make money on insurance, which by translation means it's not a good investment.

[245] It is a good purchase for those of you out there.

[246] We had a debt -free scream yesterday, I believe, our day before yesterday, that the young lady's husband was killed in a car wreck who's 30 -something years old, two months before they were debt -free, two months before that, he had gotten life insurance and he had a brand -new baby.

[247] Now, that's a good time to buy life insurance.

[248] That's perfect.

[249] I mean, that family's taken care of because that young man was just a stellar dad and husband.

[250] But this is a completely different thing.

[251] It's not a good investment mathematically.

[252] It is a protection for your family in the case of a horrible event happening.

[253] But if your dad doesn't, he's 65, he may not need life insurance.

[254] If he's got enough money, he could not just not buy life insurance.

[255] I'm 63.

[256] I don't have any life insurance.

[257] I have a huge pile of money and no debt.

[258] If I die, Sharon's going to have a party.

[259] She doesn't need life insurance, okay?

[260] And it'll be a big party.

[261] I guess not if I die.

[262] When I die.

[263] If I die before her is what I should say, right?

[264] Well, we will celebrate.

[265] We know that that's her plan and I'm a little worried about it.

[266] Yeah, I mean, the data probably backs that up.

[267] I would you say this that this is this is like common core math it just doesn't make sense and we already have good math we don't need to invent something this is just a wacky idea the minute i heard it it just wacky yeah and you can't by the way reason with wacky you just got to move on quickly yeah i wouldn't no dad no you didn't have to deal with common core math but i'm glad because it would have made the top of your head explode it must have been what happened okay in Chicago.

[268] Hi, Joel.

[269] What's up?

[270] Hi, guys.

[271] Pleasure to talk to both of you, finally.

[272] I have a question about a to death question.

[273] I just started listening to you guys a couple weeks ago.

[274] I've been watching your podcast or listening to your podcast, so like every day nonstop.

[275] So me and my wife been talking about this and we're getting ready to start the baby steps.

[276] We have the 1 ,000 already set.

[277] The issue that I'm having is, is I can get you guys some quick numbers real fast.

[278] We're about 25 to 30 in credit card and personal loan debt.

[279] We have about 31 ,000 in two car loans, 122 in our mortgage, and we have a second home, which is our first purchase that still sits at about $40K, and that's being rented currently.

[280] And so...

[281] What's your household income?

[282] We make around $140 ,000 combined before taxes.

[283] And your question is simple.

[284] how to start the baby steps yes okay we get on an every dollar budget you and your wife are in agreement that we're going to get out of debt and we're going to sacrifice to do that because if you didn't have any of these payments you'd have a lot of money agreed exactly and that's the whole idea and so do you have any savings that's not in retirement no um just just the 1k for the startup you got the baby step one okay then we're going to list all these debts smallest to larger We're going to pay minimum payments on everything but the little one.

[285] We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as an extra job, and you're not going to go on vacation.

[286] You are broke people that make $140 ,000 a year, and you need to clean up this $70 ,000 worth of stupidity before you do anything else.

[287] Stupid butt car loans and all this other mess you've got.

[288] And you've got to get disgusted about it and attack it and attack it and attack it to where your friends think you've joined a cult.

[289] I agree.

[290] Um, the one, the one thing I didn't want to mention is, um, like, the one car loan, we owe $2 ,000 on it, so that'll be gone in, like, the next four months.

[291] Good.

[292] No, no, no, no, it doesn't take four months to pay off $2 ,000 when you make $1 .40.

[293] Well, you do that the first month.

[294] Yeah, I agree.

[295] I agree with that.

[296] All right.

[297] Um, the second thing is the second car is our second vehicle, which is an SUV.

[298] That one's the one that's at $29 ,000.

[299] And I told my wife, we need to just get rid of the car.

[300] Nah.

[301] And that's where she's kind of, no, I wouldn't.

[302] No, I wouldn't.

[303] I don't think the best way to get your wife on board is not say I want to sell your car.

[304] That's actually just like a weekend vehicle.

[305] I drive a personal, I mean a work vehicle Monday through Friday.

[306] Is that your car?

[307] It's kind of both our cars, but we use it because we have three kids.

[308] So it's a larger vehicle for the family.

[309] So you have a work car that you own?

[310] It's a company vehicle.

[311] Oh, okay.

[312] Oh, no, so it's a company vehicle.

[313] Okay.

[314] And then she has a car.

[315] Yep, which is the one.

[316] that's about to be paid off, and that's your community vehicle to work every day.

[317] And then the other one has 29 ,000 owed on it.

[318] Yep.

[319] Well, her car that she owns carrier family?

[320] Yeah, we'll fit.

[321] I mean, my oldest is about to finish high school, and the other one, the smallest one is like 10 years old.

[322] So, I mean, we fit.

[323] Not much space, but I told her, you know, something we could do if we really wanted is just.

[324] Yeah.

[325] The other thing you could do, what's the rental worth?

[326] Um, I think about one.

[327] 120, 130.

[328] Yeah, you could dump it and clean up the whole mess.

[329] But either one of those is fine.

[330] Or neither if you want to just bust all the way through it.

[331] You're going to trade sacrificed lifestyle, scorched earth lifestyle, longer.

[332] You're going to stay in the mess longer if you don't move one or both of these other items.

[333] And that's the decision the two of you can make together.

[334] This is the Ramsey Show.

[335] You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle and team.

[336] with your financial game plan.

[337] But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance?

[338] Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill.

[339] And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work.

[340] That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help.

[341] They work for you, not the insurance company.

[342] So they find you the right health insurance and they save you money.

[343] Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts.

[344] And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things.

[345] Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't.

[346] Health Trust Financial is your one -stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options.

[347] They could save you hundreds of dollars a month.

[348] So make sure you're not overpaying.

[349] Go to health trustfinancial .com today.

[350] HealthTrustfinancial .com.

[351] Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, and you can join us there any time you'd like.

[352] The coffee is free, and the homemade cookies are free, and you can watch the show from one to four.

[353] The coffee and the cookies are worth the price.

[354] The show's questionable, but you can come hang out with us.

[355] There's usually 50 to a couple hundred people sitting out here, and in the lobby of the Ramsey Solutions, right here where we do the show is the debt -free stage, and Andy and Tesla are on that stage.

[356] How are you guys?

[357] Good, Dave.

[358] Thanks for having us.

[359] Absolutely.

[360] Tesla, did I say your name right?

[361] You did.

[362] Good.

[363] Okay, I'm making sure I didn't mess that up because I hesitated there for a second.

[364] All right.

[365] And where do you guys live?

[366] Dayton, Ohio.

[367] Oh, fun.

[368] And how much debt have you paid off?

[369] $134 ,100 in seven years.

[370] Way to go.

[371] And your range of income during that seven years?

[372] between 80 and 100 ,000, we're just a little north of that now.

[373] Cool.

[374] What do y 'all do for a living?

[375] I'm an X -ray and CT technologist at a local hospital.

[376] And I'm a massage therapist at a local hospital.

[377] Oh, wow.

[378] Is that where y 'all met?

[379] No. We're high school sweethearts.

[380] Oh, fun.

[381] That's fun.

[382] So seven years, 134 ,000 in Dayton, Ohio.

[383] Would that be your house?

[384] This would be our house.

[385] You paid off your house!

[386] Looking at weird people.

[387] We're weird.

[388] Yeah.

[389] How old are you two weirdos?

[390] I'm 33.

[391] And I'm 36.

[392] And you have a paid for house.

[393] Paid for house.

[394] Wow.

[395] What's this house worth?

[396] Um, anywhere between 225 and 250.

[397] Excellent.

[398] Excellent job.

[399] And how much of you guys got in your retirement next day now?

[400] Um, close to 200.

[401] We're hoping to hit that goal at the end of the year here.

[402] Yeah.

[403] So you're going to bump up about a half a million dollars towards a net worth, right?

[404] Yeah.

[405] It'll be millionaires soon.

[406] We're about, we're almost halfway there.

[407] Yeah.

[408] Way to go.

[409] I mean, easily by the time you're 35 or 40, you'll be millionaires, yeah.

[410] Way to go, you guys?

[411] Awesomeness.

[412] We're so proud of you.

[413] So what happened seven years ago that made you decide you could and should pay off a house?

[414] Yeah, so before we got engaged, he told me to read your books because he had already read them.

[415] And then we got married, and then we did the financial peace course.

[416] Yeah.

[417] And we originally paid off $46 ,000 in 12 months in one week when we got married.

[418] On those were on student loans.

[419] That was in 2015.

[420] We got married in 14.

[421] So you're working on playing right up the baby steps.

[422] We just did the baby steps and we had some hiccups along the way.

[423] It wasn't perfect.

[424] But, you know, we did it to the best of our ability.

[425] And when we got the house, you know, we wanted to have children and it was get a house.

[426] We didn't want to have them in this little apartment.

[427] Sure.

[428] And so that's where it got tough for us.

[429] We couldn't have children easily, and we didn't keep track exactly, but we spent between $8 ,000 and $10 ,000 with fertility treatments over about a course of a year.

[430] So we weren't focused on the house at that time.

[431] We were just trying to.

[432] That's fine.

[433] That's perfect time of it.

[434] That's exactly what we'd listen to your show and you advised others to do.

[435] And then it was, we were told we could not have kids naturally that we needed to go through IVF.

[436] So we were not taking out alone.

[437] Nope.

[438] We weren't about that.

[439] No. So we saved up the money that we needed.

[440] And we were planning to do IVF July of 2020.

[441] And I got pregnant naturally with our first way.

[442] So all the money.

[443] Got a signing bonus.

[444] Yes.

[445] It was fun.

[446] So all the money that we saved up went to our house.

[447] I love that.

[448] As soon as we had the first one.

[449] We wanted to make sure everything was okay with him.

[450] We were good.

[451] We had another one and we held onto it for a little bit there.

[452] Yeah.

[453] And then right after we knew, like you say, have a healthy and happy.

[454] home we went ahead and did it and we were done so i love it way to go y 'all yeah that's a great story yeah thank you thank you i think i know somebody else that happened to yeah it's exactly right our youngest daughter same situation doctor says it's not going to happen we pursued adoption and then adopted two kids adopted two boys and we brought the second one home he was 12 days old we found out stacy was pregnant so so we went from one to three at nine months i don't recommend that at home but i got to ask you this because this is a really unique story And I think it would be fun for young couples, couples your age, some younger than you, some your age.

[455] Why?

[456] Now on the other side of paying this house off.

[457] I mean, they hear us talk about it.

[458] Why should you pay off your house?

[459] Yeah.

[460] Why does it matter now?

[461] What does it feel like?

[462] There's two good reasons right there in our little sons there, Eli and Isaac.

[463] And, you know, it was just something we've kind of manifested as we got engaged and as we got married and something we've just always wanted to do and be in a situation where, we can control our own destiny.

[464] Somebody else isn't controlling it for us.

[465] You make $100 ,000 a year.

[466] You've got a no payment in the world.

[467] And then I hope she's okay with this.

[468] But she's getting her master's degree in September.

[469] Yeah.

[470] And so she's going to have a master's in health care admin.

[471] So what will that do for your income immediately and even long term?

[472] Do you have an idea?

[473] Right now I'm kind of staying put.

[474] But if something, you know, opens up, it will just increase our income.

[475] It'll just be a nice cherry on time.

[476] And the nice thing about it is my work is very helpful, so they've paid for most of it.

[477] There's just a two -year deal with that, but that's taken care of even if she wants to leave, we can pay for it right now.

[478] So we've got it there, and it's just...

[479] See, okay, here's what I want everybody here.

[480] How carefree you are with going, oh, if it doesn't, I do this.

[481] And see, the whole thing on this is freedom.

[482] That's the play.

[483] You guys can kind of just make your own decisions.

[484] I love that answer.

[485] That's what I want people to hear.

[486] And you're so relaxed, by the way, and you share all these options.

[487] I mean, it was challenging.

[488] It's challenging, but I mean, you can do it.

[489] When the brakes go out and the beater car and the KFC, you know, you're using the e -break to get through there, you're like, hey, we got to get that next car, you know.

[490] It's like, we don't want to be back in those positions.

[491] Amen.

[492] That's great.

[493] Yeah.

[494] It's been a lot of fun along the way.

[495] And we laugh a lot.

[496] We argued.

[497] The other big tip that I listened to your show when we were in our apartment, we sat across from each other doing the budget, and it was miserable.

[498] And I remembered you here and say, and you say about sit next to one another.

[499] We changed that.

[500] It changed everything right now and in a hurry and put us on the same page.

[501] You know, and that was a big key moment in our journey there.

[502] Yeah.

[503] Way to go, you guys.

[504] All right, what's your biggest tip to get somebody out of debt?

[505] Somebody says, how do you do that?

[506] How do you pay off your house?

[507] What's the secret to getting out of debt?

[508] I think you just got to be on the same page.

[509] Like, it's challenging, but we went over numbers all the time and adjusted our budgets.

[510] Adjusted our budgets.

[511] We became very comfortable with talking about that amongst ourselves.

[512] And then just having that why, you know, we want to be free.

[513] We don't want people to control us.

[514] We want to control, you know, our own situation.

[515] And then, yeah, we just couldn't be happier with it and how it's worked out and where it's projected.

[516] So we're proud of you.

[517] Congratulations.

[518] Thank you.

[519] Well done.

[520] Well done.

[521] Thank you.

[522] All right.

[523] Let's bring the guys into the picture here.

[524] Hey, come on, you.

[525] You got to come to me. How old are they?

[526] Oh, no. This is Isaac.

[527] He's one.

[528] And that's Eli.

[529] He's three.

[530] Ah, okay.

[531] Perfect.

[532] Very good.

[533] Well, way to go, you guys.

[534] That's fun.

[535] That's as good as it gets right there.

[536] This is the real deal.

[537] We've been there, brother.

[538] No worries.

[539] No worries with us.

[540] It makes a great video for you.

[541] All right, Andy and Tesla, Eli, and Isaac, $134 ,000 paid off in seven years, making 80 to 100.

[542] Count it down.

[543] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[544] Three, two, one.

[545] We're debt -free.

[546] And those two little boys don't even know how big a hero that mom and dad are.

[547] They've changed their whole family tree.

[548] I mean, they're going to be 35, 36 years old millionaires, they're already half millionaires and make 100.

[549] They have no payments in the world.

[550] They've set themselves up to take care of themselves, those little boys, and anything they need to do in the future.

[551] So well done.

[552] Such heroes.

[553] People, when you take control of your own life in a culture that has told you that you are a victim for everything, when instead you decide I'm not going to be a victim, I'm going to be a victor.

[554] When you take control, we immediately at Ramsey label you hero.

[555] because you're standing out, you're standing up in a culture that's lost its backbone.

[556] Stand up and stand out.

[557] Do it.

[558] Time to be a hero, boys and girls.

[559] Got little boys like that that need heroes in their lives.

[560] This is the Ramsey show.

[561] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[562] Hey good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[563] It's hitting us right now.

[564] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[565] My family's schedule is so packed, and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[566] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[567] Here's what I've learned.

[568] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[569] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[570] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[571] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends, and regular therapy appointments.

[572] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[573] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[574] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[575] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[576] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[577] Never skip therapy day.

[578] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[579] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[580] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[581] Ken Coleman -Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[582] Thank you for being with us, America.

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[595] Thank you.

[596] And the five -star reviews help as well.

[597] Ken Coleman, we are going on a cruise.

[598] That's right.

[599] I've gotten my sun tan lotion already.

[600] The Live Like No One Else Cruise.

[601] If you are baby step four or beyond, that means you're out of debt and have your emergency fund, everything but your house, you're out of debt.

[602] Then you're working on the, you're at the, you know, you're in a different range there.

[603] If you're in those first three things, you shouldn't be going on vacation until you get your emergency fund and you're out of debt.

[604] We tell you that.

[605] So you don't go on the cruise with us.

[606] But if you're baby step four and beyond, we would love to have you.

[607] It's almost sold out.

[608] It is March the 22nd through the 29th of 2025 on the Holland, on a Holland America ship that is almost new.

[609] It's a fabulous, fabulous ship, and we are really excited.

[610] We're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas.

[611] All the Ramsey personalities will be on there, including me all week.

[612] Plus, we will have Grammy Award winning, Dove Award winning Stephen Curtis Chapman with us.

[613] And plus we will have Dina Carter with us, remember Strawberry Wine, a famous Nashville musician, she'll be with us, several comedians and other things hanging out with us.

[614] It's going to be a fabulous week.

[615] We're going to be doing events so that are Ramsey unique events.

[616] The ship has never seen anything like you, people, and us, when we get there, we're going to take over the whole thing.

[617] The whole ship is us.

[618] Nobody else going to be on it, but you're trapped with Ramsey people the whole week.

[619] It might be a way to kind of get a spouse going, you know, but you need to be on baby step four and beyond, right?

[620] Wow.

[621] So there you go.

[622] All right.

[623] I like that idea, a little motivation.

[624] Yeah.

[625] Ramsey personalities.

[626] It's the Ramsey, cruise the live like no one else cruise March 22 through 29 now cabins are rapidly leaving we've only had it up for sale for four or five weeks and it's going to be sold out very soon so if you still want to go you can put down as little as a six hundred dollar deposit and uh normal cruise routine on all that just go to ramsysolutions dot com slash cruise and you can join us for turks and kaco st thomas porto rico the bahamas i promise you we're going to be doing a lot of fun stuff a lot of special events that are just with you and me and Ken and you and so forth on the show I mean on the on the ship so don't miss this ramsysolutions .com slash caroos I need a little whistle behind that br -oh yeah there you all right Sarah's in Fort Collins hi Sarah how are you I'm good how are you guys better than we deserve what's up okay um so my question is um I'll give you the question.

[627] I'm going to give you in some context.

[628] My question is whether or not we should look at buying a home next spring, probably a little after the new year, or if we should continue to rent.

[629] So we sold both our primary home and a rental property in January of this year to help us get out of debt faster.

[630] The original plan was to rent for the next four years while my oldest is in high school, and then we were going to move out of state.

[631] But now we're wondering if it would be better to buy a house next spring after we've saved up a down payment and just live in the house for the following three years.

[632] The oldest graduates from school.

[633] Yes, he will be a freshman this upcoming fall.

[634] Yeah.

[635] And so you're willing to move the other kids, but you're not willing to move the oldest.

[636] Yes.

[637] So we would have a very tight window between the oldest graduating.

[638] The reason we're not moving before is because I have shared custody of him, and we can't move.

[639] Oh, and so the other kids are with your current husband, and he's with a former?

[640] Correct.

[641] I. Okay.

[642] Now, now logic is kicking in.

[643] Okay.

[644] Because I couldn't figure out why we had to be, why this guy was so special that we had to wait on him, but no one else.

[645] But now I get it.

[646] Okay.

[647] Well, he thinks he is.

[648] Well, I know, but he's a freshman.

[649] So that goes with the territory.

[650] Now I get it, though.

[651] It makes sense.

[652] What you're saying is very logical.

[653] Okay.

[654] The answer is a math formula.

[655] And what we've got to try to guess at is what we think houses are going to go up between the time you buy it.

[656] and the time you sell it, okay?

[657] And Fort Collins, Colorado is a good market.

[658] I know the market.

[659] It's a strong market.

[660] And my guess is that if you said, okay, a home in this neighborhood, talk to a local Ramsey trusted real estate agent and say, if we were to buy a home in this neighborhood, what would we think the appreciation would be per year for three years, percentage -wise?

[661] Is this going to go up 8 % a year, 10 % a year, 4 % a year?

[662] What do we think it's going to go up?

[663] Okay?

[664] And they can actually provide you hard data on that.

[665] You can pull up a statistic in the MLS, a real estate agent can pull this up for you.

[666] It says, in this neighborhood, the average appreciation for the past five years has been X percent, for the past 10 years, has been Y percent, okay?

[667] And you can use something like that percentage.

[668] Now, obviously, the last five years have been wacky, the last 10 years have been wacky.

[669] It's not a normal, quote, real estate market.

[670] Agreed?

[671] Agreed.

[672] Yeah, so, but you can, so you temper this information with the knowledge that hopefully the next five years is not as wacky as the last five years.

[673] So, but you look at that.

[674] And the second piece of data that you could look at is in that neighborhood for the last five years or four years or three years, what has been the average?

[675] days on the market do m okay okay so let me give you two possible math examples to show you how you would use these numbers all right so you say the math because they usually kind of they kind of correlate okay if the houses aren't going up much in value you probably take a while to sell them agreed agreed it's not a hot super hot market so you might hear like a 270 day average days on the market nine months average and it only goes up two percent a year if that's the number you get back you don't buy a house because it's not going to go up enough to even break even with expenses when you sell it after three years follow me that makes sense yeah and it's going to be hard to sell but the other side of that equation is what if it said okay average days on the market is eight days this is a white hot market and the appreciation rate has been 12 % a year.

[676] Well, in three years, that's 36%.

[677] Right?

[678] Well, you're going to make some money and you're going to be able to get out of the house.

[679] That market's super high.

[680] You're probably not going to be all the way on either one of those spectrums, but that's how the formula informs you whether or not to buy.

[681] Is the house, it needs to go up during the three years at least 7 % a year.

[682] Okay.

[683] That's going to be 20%, and then you're going to have expenses that are going to 10 to 12 when you sell the house.

[684] Yes.

[685] So then you're going to make a little money, but if it's not going to go up at least that much, you're not going to make money, and you're going to wish you didn't do this.

[686] You'd be wishing you'd rent it.

[687] You see how I did that calculation?

[688] I do, yeah, and that makes total sense.

[689] Okay.

[690] And just get, you could call one of the Ramsey trusted real estate agents off our website.

[691] They'll help you do that right now, knowing that maybe they can help you buy a house next spring, and you can tell them which neighborhood you're looking in.

[692] Perfect.

[693] We actually have one we used to sell our house.

[694] Oh, okay.

[695] Did they do a good job?

[696] Yeah, they did amazing.

[697] It was such a smooth process.

[698] Since we sold two at one time, it was, it was a lot, but they did awesome.

[699] Very good.

[700] Well, that's what we want to hear.

[701] I'm always dangerous to ask that on the air, but yeah, no, it's not, because we vet those people so hard.

[702] We know that they're amazing.

[703] Yeah, these real estate agents are amazing that we have in our system.

[704] So, folks, that's the thing.

[705] If you're moving into, I'll tell you where that formula comes up for a lot, of you out there is if you're military and they move you every two years, that just means you're not buying.

[706] Because when you run this formula on a two year, very few markets are going to make sense.

[707] It means you're renting.

[708] If they're going to, military is going to move you every two years, you're probably a renter.

[709] And that's okay.

[710] Just be piling up cash to buy when you get out the military.

[711] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people.

[712] Build wealth.

[713] Do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[714] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose, where he helps people do work that they love.

[715] He does that on the Ken Coleman show, too, on the Ramsey Networks every day.

[716] He's my co -host today.

[717] Open phones at AAA -825 -225.

[718] Thank you for joining us, America.

[719] We're so glad you are here.

[720] Laura is with us to start off this hour in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

[721] Hi, Laura.

[722] How are you?

[723] Hi, Ken and Dave.

[724] I'm so excited.

[725] Thanks for taking my call.

[726] Well, we're honored to have you.

[727] How can we help?

[728] Well, my husband and I did our debt -free screen last June.

[729] We're on Baby Step 7 now.

[730] And we have two working teams at home.

[731] They work because they know if they want spending money, they need to work hard and earn it.

[732] So currently, we're having them save half, spend half.

[733] I don't know why.

[734] That's just what we're doing.

[735] They don't have a budget.

[736] We haven't helped them with that yet.

[737] So I'm calling to ask, what are the best strategies to guide our teens in your principals?

[738] Very cool.

[739] And how old are they?

[740] My son is 14, 14 and a half.

[741] You just got his first job as a bus boy.

[742] and although he started a dog poop scoop business last year so he's a hustler and my daughter's 19 she's home from college and working this summer okay well all the budget is is we tell our money what to do before it leaves yeah okay so it could be as simple as a yellow pad and you put the number you're going to earn this month at the top of the yellow pad and you put down five or six, seven things you're going to spend the money on until there's nothing left.

[743] And that would include savings.

[744] So what would you say the 14 -year -old would earn in a month?

[745] Give me a guess.

[746] About $300.

[747] Okay.

[748] Let's just put $300 at the top.

[749] Okay.

[750] And if you want him to save $150, you just take savings, $150, right?

[751] And then you say, what else would he spend the money on?

[752] Games, I don't know.

[753] What's a 14 -year -old spend money on these days?

[754] Oh, my word.

[755] They buy cologne.

[756] They buy food at the mall.

[757] You know, random.

[758] Well, I mean, so personal items, food, okay?

[759] Entertainment.

[760] Yeah, movie tickets.

[761] So if you want to go to a concert or a movie ticket or something like that.

[762] And so just put three or four categories down through there and say, okay, what are you going to spend your money on?

[763] I really don't mind what he spends his money on as long as he does it on purpose.

[764] Yeah.

[765] Before it leaves.

[766] Because what happens is that something will jump up in front of his 14 -year -old face or her 19 -year -old face, and they'll go do that.

[767] Then they haven't got money for something later, like car gas.

[768] Right.

[769] That's how adults that don't do a budget live, panic to panic.

[770] Yeah.

[771] Is it a 50 -50 save spend split, appropriate?

[772] It's okay.

[773] You can do whatever you want to do.

[774] I don't care.

[775] I would add a category.

[776] I would say give.

[777] Yeah.

[778] Give, save, spend.

[779] If you can teach kids to work and earn money and then teach them to give, teach them to save, and teach them to spend wisely and intentionally, you have done a great job as a parent.

[780] I love that.

[781] That's really helpful.

[782] Yeah, that's what we do with financial peace junior.

[783] That's what our high school curriculum, that's homeschool curriculum for, teaching kids in depth about all the parts of money, but budgeting and working is certainly part of it.

[784] And even the book, let me send you the book, Rachel, was Rachel's number one bestseller, her first number one bestseller, smart money, smart kids.

[785] I did the book with her, and it was me, it was the dad and daughter, both voices in the book of how to teach kids to be smart money, to be smart money, smart kids.

[786] Oh, yeah.

[787] Yeah, I'll send you a copy of that, and you guys read through it.

[788] It goes a lot more in depth than what we're doing.

[789] But the core principles are those four things.

[790] Work, give, spend intentionally and wisely, and safe.

[791] And if you can build those muscles and youngsters age appropriately from three to 23, they can leave your house and they won't have to come back except for a visit.

[792] Yeah.

[793] Yeah, they don't end up boomeranging because they don't know how to live.

[794] Yeah, and Laura, I would just, I want to encourage you that it's, it's, one of the best things you can do is teach, uh, model.

[795] So you guys, you speak to whatever part of the budget and your process and how you and your husband do it.

[796] But I would encourage you to just back away once you kind of do that teach and model.

[797] And I just think one of the best lessons is failure.

[798] And I think we as parents, and I'm speaking from experience where I've stepped in and rescued.

[799] I would not step in and rescue because we're not talking about a whole bunch of money.

[800] But one of the best ways for a kid to learn budgeting is to screw it up and to be in a situation where I didn't plan that.

[801] I mean, we're going through that with one of our kids right now, and he just blew through some money.

[802] And he came to me and I went, man, that stinks.

[803] Sucks to be you.

[804] And I'm not kidding you.

[805] And I literally walked out of the room.

[806] And it was really hard for me, but I'm just telling you that we forget as parents sometimes that failure is the greatest teacher.

[807] because you've given context.

[808] So that's my little encouragement is don't try to rescue.

[809] Remember, their brains aren't developed like yours.

[810] And so they're going to think things about money and do things with money that seems just absolutely wild and wacky.

[811] And by the way, it is.

[812] They're wild and yucky.

[813] They're teenagers.

[814] So, yeah, when we also, one other thing I'll add to this, and if you want to take it even further, it depends on how much you want to mess with this.

[815] But we had our kids at 14 and 15 years old open their first, checking account and they ran the money through the checking account now they did and i made them learn to write a check which it turns out was an archaic exercise that no one actually does anymore but um and uh because they they never wrote a check in their life i don't think i think they had debit cards then on those accounts and that's how they used all the money was through the debit card which is fine i don't care but i wanted to learn to keep up with and and reconcile balance a checking account right and manage a checking account and uh because people run those things into an overdraft you know like just oh i guess if i can keep pulling the card out they'll just keep paying it you know it's like ding ding ding ding ding ding yeah and it runs up a bunch of fees so uh you know and there's a fabulous story in the book when rachel bounced the check and i came home and there's nsf fees she's 15 years old laying on the kitchen counter oh boy i made her go her mother's took her, drive her down to the bank and sit with the bank branch manager and apologize for lying because she told that bank she had money in her account and she didn't.

[816] And the kid never bounced a check again.

[817] I'll tell you that.

[818] She's still in therapy, but she never bounced a check.

[819] Laura's enjoying Rachel's trauma way too much.

[820] That's so good.

[821] I love it.

[822] But I mean, that's the kind of stuff we did.

[823] And we weren't, it's just, you know, you have to learn to do these things.

[824] if I can let you pay one or two NSF fees and the guy actually waived the fees because he thought it was so funny that she came into the office and I apologize so but the but the you can learn this lesson you know and never bounce a check the rest of your life that was valuable it's well worth it you know valuable this is the Ramsey show Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co -host today thank you for joining us America Tabitha is in Denver.

[825] Hi, Tabitha.

[826] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[827] Hi there.

[828] How's it going?

[829] Better than we deserve.

[830] What's up?

[831] So I'm seeking some advice.

[832] My husband and I don't agree on whether or not to pay off our car loans.

[833] I'd like to pay them off, but he does not agree with that.

[834] He likes being in debt on a car?

[835] He tells me, and I quote, paying off our car loans is like giving away free money based off of our low interest rates.

[836] so he actually believes that people build wealth by borrowing on their cars I don't understand it to be completely honest it's something that we argue about pretty frequently actually okay um okay so how can we help do you think well so I'm looking for ways that I can explain to him like why it would be worth it to pay the debt off okay Um, I, I, uh, can I ask a quick question, Dave, really quick.

[837] What are, what's the interest rate on these two loans?

[838] So, um, in total we have 27 ,000.

[839] Um, so 20 ,000 on one and it's 3 .49 % interest.

[840] Mm -hmm.

[841] 7 ,000 on the other and it's 2 .94 % interest.

[842] Okay.

[843] Well, let's address the theory that he's operating on first.

[844] Okay.

[845] And then let me just tell you, I don't think we can convince this guy.

[846] I don't think he has any desire to be convinced.

[847] I think he's already made his mind up, but I will, I will answer your question anyway, okay?

[848] In other words, I don't think this is going to work, but I'll tell you.

[849] So what he's, what he's, his premise is, is that if you can borrow money at, what did you say the interest rate was 2 .7 %, right?

[850] Is that right?

[851] One of them is 2 .94, the other one is 3 .49.

[852] Okay, so let's just call it 3%.

[853] If you can borrow money at 3%, and you could invest it in a good mutual fund, and it made 10 or 12%, you're making the spread.

[854] Okay?

[855] However, he's not doing that.

[856] He didn't invest the difference.

[857] There's no $27 ,000 investment out there as a result of having borrowed on these cars.

[858] So his premise is 100 % theoretical.

[859] In other words, it's bull crap.

[860] Okay?

[861] Now, the problem with his premise, it sounds like if you invest money at 10 % and you borrow at three, aren't you making a seven spread?

[862] Maybe.

[863] But if you made a seven spread, you have to pay taxes on it and you've increased your risk load, your stress load, and you've strained your relationships in your household.

[864] and by the time you've done all of that, you really didn't make any money.

[865] So it's a bloody joke, okay?

[866] Because 7 % on $10 ,000 is $700 ,000, $7 ,000 on $30 ,000 is $2 ,100, okay?

[867] No one ever got rich on $2 ,100 a year, ever, mathematically.

[868] So, again, his premise is absolute, Bull crap, because the numbers break down when you tear into it.

[869] Another reason we know that is is that we have done, we have worked with millionaires for decades, and a couple of years back, we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America.

[870] We studied 10 ,167 of them.

[871] I wrote about it in the book, Baby Steps, Millionaires, and I'll send you a copy of it as my gift.

[872] okay that might give us a chance at helping this guy but I don't think this guy wants to be help so I usually can't help people that don't want to be help but anyway the as we studied 10 ,167 millionaires we found that 89 percent of them were not millionaires because of inherited money in other words they invested money they handled money wisely they lived on less than they made.

[873] They got their house paid off.

[874] They stayed out of debt and they built wealth.

[875] And that's how an 89 percent, nine out of 10 of America's 24 million millionaires right now.

[876] That's how they became millionaires.

[877] Okay.

[878] As we studied, Tabitha, 10 ,000 people who are rich, not broke people with a car payment and an opinion, but people who actually are rich, the number of people.

[879] The number of them that we found that became wealthy due to borrowing on their car at 3 % and investing the difference, investing the amount instead at 10%.

[880] The number of people that did that to become millionaires out of 10 ,000 of them was precisely zero.

[881] None of them used your husband's plan to become wealthy.

[882] None of them.

[883] So what that statistically tells us is your husband is wrong like you thought okay he loses the argument now that still doesn't answer your question how do we convince him and I've told you three times already I don't know if we can but I'm trying to tell you you're not crazy you're accurate you're you know he's kind of looking down like you're like some kind of juvenile that can't do math and he has high math figured out when it's quite the opposite your women's intuition was way wiser than his screwed up half -but attempt at mathematics.

[884] Yeah, and I go so far as to say this is a cop -out.

[885] This is a quick little line that he's kind of manufactured from social media or some social message out there or some car dealer who's sold him these cars.

[886] And this is his quick Heisman trophy stance to you.

[887] Like, I don't want to talk about it because I don't think he actually wants to.

[888] It means.

[889] It means.

[890] It might know what it means.

[891] I know what it means.

[892] Thank you.

[893] Thank you.

[894] Thank you.

[895] I had to think about it, so I'm sorry.

[896] That's okay.

[897] So here's my point.

[898] I think it's a cop out because he doesn't want to do the hard work that you're asking him to do to budget, to sacrifice, to pay these things off.

[899] That's my take.

[900] And I think I'd push in a little bit further as his wife and say, I don't feel safe financially carrying this debt.

[901] I think you've got to have a real conversation.

[902] I think it's a marriage conversation because he's not allowing for a financial conversation.

[903] Yeah.

[904] And there's a lack of respect towards you.

[905] that's just not okay that's getting me riled up and giving you this answer and uh because i kind of hear him sneering a little bit in this like oh you just a little lady i think so i had the same feel like that little line he had like in his holster and he just kind of pulls it out flings it at or go away yeah it does feel dismissive i got this yeah and and the hilarious thing is is he's a hundred percent wrong it's a hundred percent wrong and tabitha wins ding ding ding ding ding ding now how to get him to do it to have the i don't know and probably not all the snark that ken and i are employing it probably won't work right so you're going to have to be more loving and that but i think if he needs to hear that how important this is to you and he needs to hear that he has to respect you yeah now my wife and i can have a good argument about most anything but i'm going to respect her opinion and at the end of the argument we may do one we may do the other.

[906] There's no set rule that one of us has to quote, win or not, but we're going to do it in a respectful way, meaning that I'm not going to be dismissive, and she's not going to be dismissive.

[907] Like, you're just a man, you don't understand.

[908] And, I mean, she tries that sometimes.

[909] She tried that when we're, like, putting furniture in the new house, like, I'm an idiot because I don't know anything about decorating, because I can't even match my clothes.

[910] And so there's the problem is she's a lot.

[911] Is that an actual quote?

[912] No, I mean, but that's basically the, that's basically the tone, right?

[913] Because it's also accurate.

[914] I have to think about my clothes a lot just to make sure something doesn't flash.

[915] And so, yeah, and like, you don't know anything.

[916] You're just a knuckle dragger.

[917] You don't know anything about decorating, right?

[918] And I don't.

[919] Right.

[920] But I do know what I like, and it's my freaking house, so I get a say.

[921] There's that.

[922] You don't get to dismiss me. I agree.

[923] She doesn't get to dismiss, and I don't get to dismiss her.

[924] She, her opinion, too.

[925] She lives in that house, too.

[926] It's her money, too.

[927] So we have to work through this.

[928] This is called marriage, and sometimes it's a challenge.

[929] Yeah.

[930] Tabitha, roll it back on YouTube and let him get mad at us.

[931] That's why we do this.

[932] I'll be okay.

[933] I'm pretty good at pissing off reluctant spouses.

[934] It's like a gift because they're wrong.

[935] This is the Ramsey show.

[936] Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co -host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt -free stage.

[937] Cameron and Chelsea are with us.

[938] Hey, guys, how are you?

[939] Good.

[940] We're doing great, Dave.

[941] Welcome, welcome.

[942] Where do you all live?

[943] State College, Pennsylvania.

[944] It's near Harrisburg.

[945] Love it.

[946] Welcome to Nashville.

[947] And how much debt have you paid off?

[948] We paid off 151 ,307 .40.

[949] I like it.

[950] How long did this take?

[951] 42 months.

[952] All right.

[953] Good for you.

[954] And your range of income during that time?

[955] Our range of income was 71 ,000 to 171 ,000.

[956] Wow.

[957] What do you all do for a living?

[958] I am an audiologist.

[959] And I'm a software developer.

[960] and also serve part -time in the Army National Guard.

[961] Well, thank you for your service.

[962] Oh, you're welcome.

[963] How do you go in three and a half years up $100 ,000 in income?

[964] I graduated and got a job.

[965] Oh, there it is.

[966] So the $151 ,000 might be student loan debt.

[967] It is.

[968] All of it?

[969] Almost all of it.

[970] Okay.

[971] We have $12 ,000 in a car loan.

[972] Okay.

[973] And then the rest of student loans.

[974] Okay.

[975] So you got out of audiology school and immediately kicked the income in.

[976] Way to go.

[977] and you guys were looking at that going, uh -oh, but we also have 151 ,000 to go with this gift of debt.

[978] What was the plan?

[979] How did this work?

[980] How did you end up doing Ramsey?

[981] So we go back a little bit further.

[982] Our story kind of started right after we got married.

[983] How long have you been married?

[984] Since 2018.

[985] Okay.

[986] Right after we got married, her parents actually gave us your Financial Peace University DVD box set.

[987] Oh, yeah.

[988] But we never opened it.

[989] Of course not.

[990] It actually sat in our living room for about two years.

[991] We never touched it.

[992] It makes a good little coffee table when you first get married, yeah.

[993] And then through an online audiology group, shout out to Molly, somebody who messaged Chelsea offered to sponsor us to take Financial Peace University online.

[994] And we took FPU, and then after the first class, we sat down, did our monthly budget, wrote down all of our debt, and got really nauseous.

[995] and realized that we had a problem.

[996] And then...

[997] Scares crap out of you, doesn't it?

[998] It does.

[999] Yeah, we realized we were spending about $500 a month on restaurants and other things that we really didn't need at all.

[1000] So it was kind of game on from there.

[1001] We started, and we were doing pretty good for about a year.

[1002] And then in 2021, we coordinated an FPU class for a few of our friends, and we realized that we really weren't being gazelle intense.

[1003] We didn't tighten down the budget the way we should have.

[1004] And from then on, it was kind of game on.

[1005] We realized we were doing it wrong, needed to make a change.

[1006] And we started listening to your podcast every day to kind of get that motivation going.

[1007] And we started meeting weekly to talk about the budget and started working DoorDash.

[1008] We delivered food at night after we got off our full -time jobs.

[1009] And, yeah, that was kind of it.

[1010] It took a lot of work.

[1011] but worked your tail ends off yeah and then you get out of school and get a bigger shovel how long you've been out of school two years two years okay so two years of this uh three and a half year plan so basically almost half the time you've had the big shovel and prior to that you were just scrapping yeah yeah yeah way to go guys way to go you got to kind of feel like accomplished you do it does it's a ginormous weight off your chest yeah you guys are heroes well done i'm just curious What was the greatest challenge for you two in this process?

[1012] I think the working extras.

[1013] I mean, we had our full -time jobs, but I think that, you know, the getting off at 5 o 'clock and like...

[1014] Pushing through.

[1015] Yeah, deciding, hey, we're going to go out until 9, 10 o 'clock and deliver food when, you know, she had a doctorate degree and I'm working as a software developer.

[1016] Kind of delivering food just kind of feels not like something you want to do at night.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] Well, is there a sense?

[1019] of pride there in a negative way.

[1020] It's like, come on, what am I doing?

[1021] And that really starts to play games with your head, doesn't it?

[1022] It does.

[1023] Yeah, it does.

[1024] Yeah, that's very cool.

[1025] I talked to a pastor one time who was leading financial peace, and he decided he was going to get an extra job, and his extra job was valet in cars.

[1026] And he said, it was really rough when the guy that is in my congregation came up, and I had to park his car.

[1027] He said, that was a real pride knock.

[1028] It was hard.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] Way to go, Well, way to go, was it worth it?

[1031] It was.

[1032] How you feel now?

[1033] Surreal, really.

[1034] Free?

[1035] Yes.

[1036] Well, a month before, we paid off, a month before we paid off everything.

[1037] A month after we paid off everything, we actually had our daughter, Katie.

[1038] Oh, wow.

[1039] So we paid off everything.

[1040] Then a month later, she arrived.

[1041] Wow.

[1042] We worked through all of that, too.

[1043] And I'll just say, like, the feeling of sitting in the hospital waiting for your baby to be born and knowing that you don't know anybody oh anybody anything is a great feeling you didn't have to think about the money you can just be there she will never live in a house that has debt isn't that cool yeah it is that's pretty cool y 'all you guys are heroes you changed your family tree you did it for her that's awesomeness right there that's noble very well done very well done all right when people ask and they say i've got a hundred and fifty thousand dollars a student loan debt i'll never get out of debt don't they say that I say it all the time.

[1044] Sure hope the president will forgive it because I can't ever pay it off.

[1045] I'm stuck.

[1046] And you weren't waiting on Biden or Trump to take care of your life.

[1047] Thank God.

[1048] And instead you said, we're going to do this.

[1049] So what's the secret to paying off 151 ,0442 months?

[1050] I think definitely the budget and communication.

[1051] I think that was the two biggest things that we took away from this is our communication with one another too is completely.

[1052] different than it was three and a half years ago.

[1053] Now, have you guys watched debt -free screams on YouTube?

[1054] All the time.

[1055] Okay.

[1056] So you hear people say that exact answer all the time.

[1057] Yeah.

[1058] They say communication and budget.

[1059] And yet when you did it, it didn't feel like when you actually did communicate and you actually did a budget, it didn't feel like it did when you heard somebody else doing it.

[1060] When they said, oh yeah, of course it's a budget and it's communication.

[1061] But then when you actually do it it's like wow that really is it yeah yeah yeah when you can put the numbers on paper and actually see the progress you kind of realize that how would you do it without this yeah amazing very well done you guys very very well done all right and miss katie was oh how old is miss katie she is 11 weeks old oh my goodness that's a good enough reason right there to do all that work yeah and you never have to work extra she'll They'll never know it.

[1062] Yeah.

[1063] She'll never know those long hours.

[1064] I like it.

[1065] Well done.

[1066] Well done.

[1067] Changed your whole family tree.

[1068] You guys are heroes.

[1069] Excellent job.

[1070] Cameron and Chelsea and Katie.

[1071] Right on cue.

[1072] Harrisburg, Pennsylvania State College, 151 ,000 paid off in 42 months, making 71 to 171.

[1073] Count it down.

[1074] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1075] Three.

[1076] two one we're debt free can you imagine the audiologist covered her baby's ears i saw that that was a pro move that's a that's a that's a pro move right there pro hack love that well done well done we've actually got little headphones for them in case their parents really want to scream because it scares some of the kids sometimes but uh that's so cool they that what a neat couple man what rock stars that just did it man it just did it i mean that's hard they did this on no money for the first half of their journey and then when she starts making some money and they add the overtime to it and the extra jobs to it boom we get out of there and we're done baby we're done yeah the thing i'm always inspired by when we hear these stories and this is the latest example is these are men and women who decide that they're willing to do what it takes now to be able to live the way they want to live in the future and at the end of the day whether you're changing your life and your physical life your emotional life, your relationship life, you've got to make that decision that there's some hard work that you've got to go through in order to live the life you want to live.

[1077] And they're standing on the other side of this with a brand new baby.

[1078] I mean, literally brand new.

[1079] That's really cool stuff.

[1080] Very neat.

[1081] Very neat.

[1082] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1083] Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose, is my co -host today.

[1084] Our question of the day today comes from Travis in New Mexico.

[1085] We are a family of six.

[1086] My wife and I are both turning 45 this year.

[1087] Income -wise, we make about $400 ,000 a year before taxes.

[1088] Wow.

[1089] Five to 15 % bonuses before tax.

[1090] We're living paycheck to paycheck and cannot seem to get out of this.

[1091] We're about 1 .1 million in debt, including our mortgage.

[1092] We spend more than $20 ,000 every month on expenses, leaving close to nothing to put towards extra debt payments other than vacations costing $15 ,000 to $20 ,000 a year.

[1093] It is almost impossible to cut into other budget items.

[1094] We need help on a game plan.

[1095] Yeah, you need a game plan, but the statement, it's almost impossible to cut into other...

[1096] To live on $400 ,000 a year in New Mexico.

[1097] Yeah, it sounds like we've got some emotional issues with some poor decisions we've made, because if you're living paycheck to paycheck on that, spend every month.

[1098] you're just out of control.

[1099] Yeah, there's something really.

[1100] I mean, everybody out there that's making $100 ,000 a year and saving money is laughing at you right now.

[1101] That's just ridiculous.

[1102] Okay.

[1103] So, yes, the vacations need to go away.

[1104] And yes, you probably have some stupid cars you can't afford.

[1105] And you may even bought a house you can't afford.

[1106] I don't know.

[1107] But I don't know what decisions you've made that eats up $400 ,000 a year.

[1108] and you don't seem to think you have any room in that budget.

[1109] And don't tell me it's because we have a family of six.

[1110] Man, man, man, man, man, and bull crap.

[1111] Lots of families of six live on 50 and 60 ,000 all over America.

[1112] So, um, sorry.

[1113] I don't have enough information here to give an intelligent answer.

[1114] That's right.

[1115] But, um, I, I don't, we spend more of the expenses leaving close to nothing.

[1116] I think it's almost impossible to cut into other budget items.

[1117] So my only guess here from 30 years of doing what I do is that one of you, either you, Travis, or your wife, is an absolute child.

[1118] One of you is a princess.

[1119] One of you gets everything they want, and the other one is afraid of them.

[1120] afraid to tell them you're freak you're out of control we're stopping this you're a nut we're not doing this anymore and you're afraid of them to say that yeah so i don't know which one of you it is i kind of think it's you Travis the way this is worded but you could just be scared of your princess wife i don't know but somebody here has put the emotional barrier up that this is reasonable, and no one in America listening to this right now thinks this is reasonable.

[1121] Even people in Washington, D .C., who can't balance a budget if they had to look at you making $400 ,000 a year and say there's nowhere to cut and don't think that's reasonable.

[1122] Even a congressman would look at your budget and say that's not a reasonable statement.

[1123] That's a bold statement.

[1124] Wow, I don't know if it's true, and you're always right.

[1125] I mean it sounds like a congressional budget where essentially you know what I'm seeing here and all joking aside I think you actually put your finger right on the nerve of this deal just because you say we want the country club membership and we put it in the budget doesn't mean it should be in the budget doesn't mean you need to be in the country club that's right when you got this kind of but it's where our family oh shut up we eat there every Sunday after church you're broke and you make 400k shut up Yeah.

[1126] Yeah, I don't know what it is.

[1127] We have some excess.

[1128] Our children are all, have you seen the thing?

[1129] I saw it the other day.

[1130] It's the funniest thing on travel baseball.

[1131] Oh, I think I know what you're talking about.

[1132] I guess it was a real.

[1133] Somebody sent it to me. Like, congratulations, your son just made the travel baseball team.

[1134] That means that you will have no weekends for the rest of your life.

[1135] It will cost you $26 ,000 up front and an additional $124 ,000 a year in travel and expenses.

[1136] And when he graduates, he will never play ball again.

[1137] Yeah, it's so true.

[1138] Congratulations, you've made travel baseball.

[1139] We can't cut that out, though.

[1140] Yeah, I mean, it's like, yeah, it's kind of falls in that.

[1141] There's an emotional barrier to cutting it, not a reality barrier.

[1142] That's what I'm smelling.

[1143] Absolutely.

[1144] Because it's nothing else.

[1145] There's no other explanation for this ridiculous statement.

[1146] So, Travis, it's stupid, man. You're going to have to do something different.

[1147] You keep doing what you've been doing.

[1148] You're going to keep getting what you've been getting.

[1149] That's the definition of insanity.

[1150] humanity, continue to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

[1151] You have to change, and change is hard, but it's not as hard as being broke and making 400K.

[1152] I hope I'm shaming you into doing this.

[1153] It's kind of a spiritual gift of mine.

[1154] All right, Ralph is with us in Phoenix, Arizona.

[1155] Hey, Ralph, what's up?

[1156] Hey, how are you?

[1157] It's great to listen to you.

[1158] Thanks, man. How can we help?

[1159] Well, I have been struggling to keep my head above water for quite a long time, fighting with, I have $75 ,000 in credit card, IRS debt.

[1160] I, which is which?

[1161] You have $75 ,000.

[1162] The two.

[1163] How much IRS?

[1164] 44K.

[1165] Okay.

[1166] And so 30 in credit cards?

[1167] Yes.

[1168] Okay.

[1169] All right.

[1170] The credit cards are in a debt management plan.

[1171] I'm paying $700 a month on that.

[1172] Okay.

[1173] And the IRS on $1.

[1174] don't negotiate with them.

[1175] I expect I'm going to have to pay them about $500 a month.

[1176] You're negotiating them on the payment amount.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] Okay.

[1179] And how did you end up owing the KGB?

[1180] I mean the IRS 44K.

[1181] I took some money out of my 401k and didn't pay taxes on it.

[1182] Oh, there's that.

[1183] Okay.

[1184] Where'd that money go?

[1185] Where'd that money go?

[1186] It went into a house I built and then sold and I lost the money.

[1187] I got scammed and a couple things.

[1188] Yeah, I've had a real run of bad luck and bad decisions, and I'm just determined that I'm not going to spend the rest of my life like this.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] What's your household income?

[1191] Well, I'm on Social Security, and I'm working part -time, so I'm probably making somewhere around 50K.

[1192] How old are you?

[1193] 67.

[1194] Okay.

[1195] And so you're going to put the IRS on a payment, you've got the credit cards on a payment.

[1196] How can we best help you today?

[1197] Well, I'm so tired of living like this, and I've had this thought that maybe I should sell my house, take the equity, and pay off all my debts, and just downsize and start over.

[1198] What do you owe in your home?

[1199] $250.

[1200] What's it worth?

[1201] $4 .5.

[1202] Okay.

[1203] So you would be free, and you'd have $150 ,000 minus $75 ,000, so you'd have $75 ,000 in your pocket.

[1204] Right.

[1205] And you're going to buy what?

[1206] I don't know.

[1207] My credit score is $6 .73, so I don't know what I'm going to get for a mortgage.

[1208] You're not.

[1209] Yeah, exactly.

[1210] What I've been fantasizing about is buying a nice fifth wheel rig and living in that somewhere.

[1211] No, we don't want to die in a trailer.

[1212] No, that's not a retirement plan, dude.

[1213] No, I don't like it either.

[1214] Yeah, you're just trying to, what you're after is freedom, but that's not going to get you what you want.

[1215] No. Uh, yeah, aye, aye, aye, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, yeah.

[1216] Yeah, um, here, you know, if you sold the house today, you would be free, and then you rent something as inexpensively as possible for two years and let your credit score heal, because it'll heal over time.

[1217] when you don't have any payments and you get rid of the IRS.

[1218] Right now, it's not healing.

[1219] As long as the IRS is sitting there, your credit score is going to stay down, period.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Okay.

[1222] So you're going to be renting for two years.

[1223] You're going to be $69, and you're going to be buying something at that point.

[1224] During that time, however, you will not have any of these payments.

[1225] And if you can keep your health up and continue to bring in the income, you can stack some cash on top of that $75 or $80.

[1226] We got left over, right?

[1227] Mm -hmm.

[1228] So your purchase would not occur for two years.

[1229] years though yeah I just don't know what I could rent I'm at house payments 1900 and what am I going to rent for close to that you know you need to rent for less than that even and you're probably going to move away from where you are right now in order to do that you got any buddies that are single that need to rent and cut their costs maybe time to go back to the roommate situation my friend I've given that a lot of thought about getting a roommate I have a friend of mine family that he's just been count he's been cat sitting for me I think I'd do it the other way around.

[1230] I think I'd be the roommate, sell this house and clear the death.

[1231] Yep.

[1232] That was Ken's idea.

[1233] That's a thought.

[1234] It's not a bad thought.

[1235] And you've got a tough one there.

[1236] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1237] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1238] Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, as my co -host today.

[1239] Thanks for joining us, America.

[1240] We're glad you're here.

[1241] John is on the line in San Francisco.

[1242] Hey, John, how are you?

[1243] Hey, Dave, how are you doing?

[1244] Better than I deserve.

[1245] What's up?

[1246] Hey, I'm seeking advice on how I can get my name out of a house loan.

[1247] I purchased a home in 2008.

[1248] I was valued at $200 ,000 under my credit with my girlfriend at the time.

[1249] her in -loss offered $40 ,000 to help us with a down payment with the promise that we paid them back when we refi in a year.

[1250] The girlfriend at the time and I broke up months later.

[1251] I wanted nothing to do with the house.

[1252] I left.

[1253] We went to a UPS notary place to get my name removed out of the title and the in -loss of the name got added on the title.

[1254] The loan, though, stayed in my name with the promise of getting my name, out of the loan after a year or so I've tried countless times to initiate a refy for the house but it never works out with the in -laws either they didn't get approved or the credit at the time wasn't good or they did not turn in paperwork etc. 16 years later the house loan is still under my name the title is under their name there's now renters in the house managed by a rental company.

[1255] I had a equity of about $400 ,000 at this time.

[1256] I recently re -engage with them with a new mortgage loan advisor in the picture two weeks ago to re -empt another refi to get my name out of the loan.

[1257] And it's taking them two weeks to just send back documents to get the process going.

[1258] So I feel like it might end up to be another unsuccessful attempt.

[1259] So my question is, what can I do in the situation.

[1260] My ultimate goal is to get my name out of the loan the summer.

[1261] I want to move on in my life with my new family.

[1262] And I also want to ask if I have any rights to the equity of the house whenever he gets sold.

[1263] You want the equity out of the house.

[1264] Is there a place for that?

[1265] Really, my ultimate goal is just to get my name out of the loan.

[1266] Yeah.

[1267] I'm out of my credit.

[1268] That's my number one priority okay so you're a case study on what not to do don't buy a home with your girlfriend super don't buy a home with your girlfriend with her parents putting down the down payment and super duper don't do all that and then later deed the home over to them without getting your name off the mortgage that should have been done simultaneously or you should have kept your name on the mortgage you shouldn't have done any of this to start with it's a disaster it's why we tell people never buy a house with someone they're not married to you even refer to them as the in -laws and yet you were never married it's just a girl it's your ex's parents is your ex -girlfriend's parents is all it is they were never in -laws because there was no law involved in this no it never were married so okay uh what do you make uh make about 150 to 200 k a year okay all right are they um have you sat down in person with them or is everything just been by phone or email um i was in person with them i want to say three weeks ago for a graduation uh you know i had a daughter with a girlfriend oh there's that so this is the grandparents of your daughter right yep and the plot thickens Yes, it does.

[1269] Okay, and she just graduated from high school?

[1270] Yes.

[1271] Wow.

[1272] Okay.

[1273] Well, there's a lot of stuff you can do here, and none of it's going to be pleasant if you want to get rid of the mortgage.

[1274] Okay.

[1275] So one is obviously what you've been doing, and if they go get a new mortgage and get it out of your name, then easy.

[1276] that that one's going to be pleasant and if you can get the if you can persuade them assist them even write a check for them to be able to get the loan I would do that because of the fact that they are the grandparents of your daughter right before I heard that I was going to go more scorched earth but um because these people have been dragged button along for a long time uh right now if they won't do that your options are aggressive that's your only options that are left I assume there's nothing in this whole stupid deal written down is there no okay no partnership agreement of any kind no transactions or anything else okay all we've got what you said and what they said he said she said so um you know uh uh uh what I would do next if you want to get this aggressive to sit down with them in person and say I really have to get this loan out of my name I need to move on with my life our our my daughter has graduated from high school she's moving into adulthood you guys need to make this come to an end for me if you don't we need to if you can't we need to figure out something else so one option folks is for you to sell the house so that you can't so that you can't we need to figure out something else so one option folks is for you to sell the house so that you can pay off the loan and get out of my name that's an option and you can do that voluntarily folks if you don't do that uh if you want me to buy you out of the house i will give you a few thousand dollars i don't know if you got any money at all john have you got any money yeah how much money have you got uh i want to say we have a lease saved up 50k okay for emergency yeah so if you bought this house for 50k back from them and they deeded it to you that would be a deal because it's got a lot of equity right right so i'll buy i'll give you guys 50k and you deed it over to me if you don't want to sell it but they'd be smarter to sell it and put the money in their pocket right right okay those are two options folks if you don't want to do that then i'm going to ask a judge to rule on this situation because you're taking advantage of me and I have to stop it and so the judge is going to require you sell the house and that's going to involve me suing you and I really don't want to do that it's going to be very expensive it's going to be long and drawn out you're going to hate it I'm going to hate it everybody's going to end up mad but the lawyer who's going to cash our checks and so I don't want to go that way but if you guys are just going to sit on your thumbs, I'm going to have to.

[1277] You're going to force me to do that.

[1278] Now, that's pretty aggressive, and you can file a lawsuit over this, in -air quotes, partnership dispute.

[1279] And you'd have to talk to an attorney about the basis for that.

[1280] But basically, you're forcing them to liquidate the asset to make good on their promise in this partnership that's gone awry.

[1281] And that's the legal basis for what I'm talking about.

[1282] out, but you're going to end up suing these people if they won't voluntarily go get a new mortgage or sell the property or deed it over to you.

[1283] And any of those proposals are fairly aggressive, but it's time somebody get off their thumbs here, and that somebody is those people, the grandparents of your daughter.

[1284] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1285] Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1286] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1287] open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[1288] We're so glad you're here.

[1289] We appreciate you hanging out with us.

[1290] The best way to make the most of your money is to make your money behave.

[1291] Tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[1292] That is called a budget.

[1293] People who plan things are the ones that execute the plan, and they're the ones that win at anything.

[1294] No one accidentally gets to Florida from Tennessee.

[1295] It requires a plan.

[1296] You don't just wake up and go, oh, I wonder how that happened.

[1297] No, I mean, you got in the car, you got on a plane, you had a plan, and you executed the plan.

[1298] Same thing's true with your money and building wealth.

[1299] It never happens by accident.

[1300] No one ever became a millionaire and went, I wonder how that happened.

[1301] No, they do it on purpose, and that's by giving every dollar a name, and that's why we call the world's best budgeting app, every dollar.

[1302] It'll help you to budget out every single paycheck.

[1303] It'll help you work the baby steps, and you can download.

[1304] it for free in the app store or Google Play, and you can go to every dollar .com and download it for your desktop for free, and you can upgrade it to the premium to hook to your bank and get a bunch of other coaching and things involved and help you a whole bunch here.

[1305] So check it all out.

[1306] Every dollar in the app store.

[1307] Kelly is with us.

[1308] Kelly's in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[1309] Hi, Kelly.

[1310] How are you?

[1311] Hi, good.

[1312] Me and my husband are huge Dave Ramsey fan, so we're really excited to be on the call.

[1313] Well, we're honored to have you.

[1314] So me and my husband have been doing really good at budgeting.

[1315] We've been following a Dave Ramsey plan, and we actually finally had some wiggle room in our budget to put extra debt payments.

[1316] We've sold some assets and stuff, but then he lost his job last week.

[1317] So now we're back to the point where, you know, we're trying really hard not to use credit cards.

[1318] And we were looking at him.

[1319] He didn't get any severance?

[1320] no it was a small company and it didn't end on good terms so um no unfortunately no we were just kind of high and dry just dumped yeah and what do you make uh well i'm self -employed um i started a bookkeeping business um and i've been doing it full time for about six months now but we're making about ten thousand dollars a month gross what are you netting um we're pay i'm paying myself about 45 no i didn't ask that i ask what you're netting you make 10 000 you run a small business you have a net profit per month what are you neting on 10 000 dollars what are your margins you're a bookkeeper um about about 5 000 it's pretty good profit yeah so why can't you live on 5 000 a month well because we've made stupid mistakes and we lived above our means we know that and so we have um a hundred thousand dollars in debt um not counting your house right not counting our house on what which is 88 ,000 is our house I said not counting your house right you have 100 ,000 not counting your house or counting the house not counting the house okay what's the hundred thousand what kind of debt credit cards consolidation loan from medical debt things like that How much is cars?

[1321] Actually, we have two older vehicles, so they're paid in full.

[1322] Okay.

[1323] So it's all credit cards and debt consolidation from other credit cards?

[1324] Yes, and medical stuff, too.

[1325] $100 ,000?

[1326] Yes.

[1327] Okay.

[1328] All right.

[1329] And so if you...

[1330] So, I mean, that's pretty close to about $5 ,000 a month in payments.

[1331] Yeah, okay.

[1332] And what was he making?

[1333] about 4 ,000 a month doing what um he was a generator of service technician he works on generators yes okay all right like commercial obviously yeah like whole house generators yeah so we're talking mechanical work yeah okay service repair maintenance how long ago do you get laid off are you week ago?

[1334] A week?

[1335] Towards the end of last week, yeah.

[1336] Oh, not even a week.

[1337] Okay.

[1338] Ken?

[1339] Yeah, I got to jump in and say he needs to be getting busy right now doing as much freelance mechanical work until he can get another mechanical job.

[1340] I can tell you in his particular talent field, I know he's specific in that generator field, but with his ability, he should be getting as much work as he can.

[1341] until he lands another gig, at least completely replenishing what he was making.

[1342] But this is not a, oh, we're trying to avoid credit cards.

[1343] No, no, he's going out and he's working like crazy, fixing stuff everywhere.

[1344] I mean, your area of where you're at, North Carolina, fantastic job economy.

[1345] If you're anywhere near Raleigh, North Carolina, we're talking about a booming economy.

[1346] A lot of people, a lot of cars breaking down, a lot of machines.

[1347] He is getting after it.

[1348] two jobs, three jobs, if these are part -time jobs, like I said, just like filling in at a garage where, hey, we need a couple of extra hands around there.

[1349] It's intensity, intensity.

[1350] He has such a transferable skill right now to where per hour he should be making really good money and quickly.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] Bottom line is someone who knows how to turn a wrench, regardless of what they're turning it on.

[1353] Someone who knows how to analyze something like a generator breaking down and diagnose that can work on a lot of different things.

[1354] That's what Ken means by transferable skill.

[1355] And what we want to encourage him to do and you to encourage him to do is to get over the shock and the pain of having been fired and dumped out on the street with nothing.

[1356] Get over that anger as fast as possible because the best revenge is success right well and so he was helping me part of our gazelle intensity was uh he was helping me bookkeeping at night um and because i'm very small um we were considering letting him you know try to help me grow the business because i could use an extra hand does he know how to do bookkeeping he can help me with some of the more basic things, yes.

[1357] Yeah, but that's extra.

[1358] He's been working with me. Sure, at night, that's okay, but he's not going to be able to, you're not going to be able to pay him what he could make out in the marketplace, are you?

[1359] No, not immediately, no, but it's kind of one of those hard situations where I can't really grow the business.

[1360] You don't have the ability to invest in your business right now.

[1361] You have to have the money now.

[1362] He has to go get a work.

[1363] That's right.

[1364] Him working in your business right now is an investment that you don't have the money to make.

[1365] he has he has to go create an income right now like like by next week i want him working somewhere doing something and uh to keep the to keep the wolf away from your door so that you guys get where he needs to bring enough you guys can eat and pay your payments and then we can start talking about you know building up the business working at night working weekends maybe he maybe he shifts and goes a whole other direction with his career even i don't know is there something else he's talked about doing that's fun yeah i mean he's pretty talented he's pretty well versed at a lot of different trades and you're you're well aware right now that the trades are just a boom yeah it's a it's the best thing to be in because you can just get hired in 20 seconds that's why canna are sitting here encouraging you to do that kelly just just to show you uh i just googled mechanic jobs in raleigh north carolina and i'm looking at three right here one just says maintenance technician.

[1366] I haven't clicked on it.

[1367] It was $25 to $35 an hour full time.

[1368] No degree required.

[1369] Includes health insurance.

[1370] I mean, you understand this.

[1371] You understand it.

[1372] Okay, so this is just about, let's move on.

[1373] He can make $40 an hour.

[1374] Absolutely.

[1375] Well, we're, you know, a little over an hour away from Raleigh.

[1376] That just was the closest city.

[1377] Drive your butt over that direction and get a job.

[1378] Hello.

[1379] Yeah, I get it.

[1380] Right.

[1381] I get it.

[1382] But there's lots of things in your area where people need someone today's point that can turn a wrench.

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] And your husband knows I do that.

[1385] He can take he's talented.

[1386] He can do a lot of stuff.

[1387] And then continue to grow your business.

[1388] And if he wants to quit and join that business someday, when you guys can get large enough to justify that.

[1389] But you called me in a crisis.

[1390] The first thing we have to do is put the crisis to bed.

[1391] Yeah.

[1392] With the triage.

[1393] And then we can come back later and talk about investing and growing your business.

[1394] That's the first thing.

[1395] Don't get the two confused.

[1396] Yeah, and your husband's very marketable.

[1397] Once he gets past being pissed off or being fired, so he needs to go do this today.

[1398] Move today.

[1399] urgency.

[1400] This is the Ramsey show.

[1401] Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co -host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt -free stage.

[1402] Mark and Stacey are with us.

[1403] Hey, guys.

[1404] How are you?

[1405] Hi.

[1406] Hey, we're doing good.

[1407] Welcome, welcome.

[1408] Where do you all live?

[1409] Um, we are outside of Annapolis, Maryland, and Odenton.

[1410] Oh, fun.

[1411] Welcome to Nashville.

[1412] And how much debt have you guys paid off?

[1413] Just under $93 ,000.

[1414] All right.

[1415] And how long did this take?

[1416] Do you remember?

[1417] 19 months, 10 days.

[1418] Love it.

[1419] Okay.

[1420] And your range of income during that 19 months?

[1421] We started off at 178 ,000.

[1422] And last year we ended over 200.

[1423] Good for you.

[1424] Well done.

[1425] What do you guys make?

[1426] I mean, what do you do?

[1427] I'm a licensed esthetician.

[1428] And I'm an IT professional.

[1429] Awesome.

[1430] Very cool.

[1431] Good job, guys.

[1432] What kind of debt was the 93?

[1433] Okay.

[1434] Well, I have a list because it's a lot.

[1435] We owe the IRS money.

[1436] We had three credit cards, two cars, four cell phones, two personal loans, Peloton, and a 401k loan.

[1437] And a partridge and a pear tree.

[1438] Yes.

[1439] You guys were normal.

[1440] Pretty much.

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] That we borrowed on everything in sight.

[1443] That's pretty much normal.

[1444] Wow.

[1445] So what happened 19 months ago?

[1446] What was the wake -up call?

[1447] And how did you get tied into Ramsey?

[1448] So I discovered the podcast and started listening to that, downloaded every dollar.

[1449] We have two teenagers.

[1450] So realizing that we had no money for college was kind of a driver.

[1451] Yeah.

[1452] And just sick and tired of not having enough money.

[1453] Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[1454] So you start listening to this crazy podcast and you come home and Mark said what?

[1455] she's definitely the brains of this operation i mean she listened to you guys endlessly i heard your voice constantly in our house and so i knew we were like a fingernail down a chalkboard yeah she is endless but it's great but he paused his 401k oh wow that was huge for him wow he did not want to do that yeah yeah and so you went along for the ride i did at times uh begrudgingly but you did it that's good good good for you guys well done thank you very fun so an endless podcast absorption which gives you a lot of instruction a lot of little nuanced ideas on things to work on and what did you guys do from that point um really just work the plan we um a purist but budgeted we worked with what we had yep so what do you tell people the key to paying off 93 and 19 months is so the things that i wrote down that were important to us were, well, actually, hold on, just making the decision.

[1456] I mean, it's that simple.

[1457] I had heard your podcast before, but it didn't stick.

[1458] But once we decided following your steps as prescribed, like exactly, don't question it.

[1459] And then combining accounts.

[1460] We were married 19, or, well, 20 years this year, and we just did that.

[1461] Wow.

[1462] Was that kind of weird?

[1463] Does it feel real awkward?

[1464] it was a little bit but totally worth it yeah and then six months later you go why don't we do this earlier yes pretty much yeah that's why most people experience it yeah i mean you kind of had your own deal for 20 years and then you slam dunk together right it's like there's a culture there's a shock runs through your system you know but then once you get a new rhythm it's like well they should have been doing this all right and being flexible because things always change oh yeah they do even even in 19 months they do yes yes that's very cool very true very true way to go y 'all thank you you've been married 19 years have you ever been debt -free during the 19 years no we've never not had a car payment wow yeah always a car and i have said i will always have a car payment sure that was permission to get a new car if you were going to pay one off soon as we get paid off we can't live without a payment we got go get another one yeah that's it yeah that's that's the way the mind the mindset of the works now but not you you're weird now officially yeah and the best kind of weird yeah yeah well when when normal's broke you don't be normal you know it's that simple way to go y 'all yeah i have two questions the first one's a quick one do you still have the peloton and do you use it we do still have it and i use all right all right that's huge that's big and and this is for you mark and you're a hero in this too so this is actually i think would be fun i'm not in any way calling you out but as the reluctant spouse I mean, we've seen that on you, and you're hearing the story, you know.

[1465] What would you say to other spouses who right now, their spouse is eating up the podcast, they're on YouTube, they're listening on radio, they're just talking about it all the time.

[1466] Very similar situation that you were in, because I think you have a unique perspective here.

[1467] What is the key when you're the reluctant spouse and you've got one that's on fire?

[1468] You just have to be patient with it, suffer.

[1469] along through the process.

[1470] That's good.

[1471] I mean, like I said, she's the brains of the operation.

[1472] So I followed her lead and I started paying attention to the things you guys were saying and just cooperating with her and trusting the process, of course.

[1473] Even when you don't agree necessarily, you're not 100 % bought in.

[1474] Is that what you're saying?

[1475] Correct.

[1476] One of the big things was eating and we didn't get to eat out.

[1477] a lot and we just had to have the specific things that we ate right but i see a little trauma there mark you're like there's some food items that you don't ever want to eat again there's a good news is the food scene in nashville is incredible that's right so you're going to be able to find you some great reference while you're here now that you're dead free way to go that's true that's so good you guys thank you i completely agree with that and um i don't want to put words in your mouth but the The way, we're, those of you listening only, you're not seeing what we're seeing with Mark, but it looks to me like as I'm watching you, you said she's the brains of operation two times, but I kind of think you went along with this just because it meant a lot to her and you love her.

[1478] That is true.

[1479] Yep.

[1480] It looks like that.

[1481] Not necessarily had anything to do with you liking it.

[1482] It's just, she's really fired about this and I love her, so I'm going with it.

[1483] Yep.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] That's cool.

[1486] Thank you.

[1487] And there's nothing wrong with that.

[1488] That's a good thing.

[1489] You're a good man. That's a good man. Yeah.

[1490] Yeah.

[1491] Well done.

[1492] Well done.

[1493] You guys are incredible.

[1494] Thank you.

[1495] Heroes.

[1496] You changed your whole life.

[1497] You changed your whole family tree permanently.

[1498] I hope it's permanently.

[1499] Well done.

[1500] Never going back, man. Never going back.

[1501] Now that we're free, now that we're combined, it's all on.

[1502] Game on.

[1503] Game on.

[1504] Very cool.

[1505] And now we can actually send these kids to college and pay for it.

[1506] Yes.

[1507] That's right.

[1508] Because we've got a couple hundred thousand bucks a year and no payments.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1511] Proper college choice.

[1512] Good choice on what we're going to study to make it worth it.

[1513] And both of you got those fields, both of you've got great fields that you're in.

[1514] So very cool.

[1515] Thank you so much.

[1516] All right.

[1517] Bring up the kiddos introduce them.

[1518] Let's hear their names and ages.

[1519] So this is Sadie.

[1520] She's headed off to a community college in Maryland.

[1521] All right.

[1522] And she's 17.

[1523] And this is Chase.

[1524] And he is 16.

[1525] And he is a junior in high school.

[1526] All right.

[1527] Way to go, you guys.

[1528] Very cool.

[1529] I love it.

[1530] I love it.

[1531] Excellent job.

[1532] All right.

[1533] From Annapolis or just outside.

[1534] Annapolis, Maryland.

[1535] Mark and Stacey, Chase and Sadie, 93 ,000 paid off in 19 months, making 178 to 200.

[1536] Count it down.

[1537] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1538] Three, two, one.

[1539] We're dead free!

[1540] Yeah.

[1541] Yeah.

[1542] Buy that man a steak.

[1543] Right.

[1544] And a couple appetizers.

[1545] I love it.

[1546] Congratulations, you guys.

[1547] that's powerful.

[1548] That is powerful.

[1549] It is interesting.

[1550] The dynamic that goes on when one spouse gets fired up and what you've got to work through.

[1551] And that was fun to watch.

[1552] And Mark's a really good sport, but a good guy, obviously, as well.

[1553] And so, because they're, they're going to stop and it.

[1554] Stacey, once she got on it.

[1555] You can tell she's a dog on a bone man. She's getting it.

[1556] That's right.

[1557] That's a lot of fun.

[1558] And they did it.

[1559] They did it.

[1560] $93 ,000 paid off in 19 months.

[1561] think about that guy that's a lot some of you sitting out there going i've got student lines and i'm stuck and i don't have a victim and shut up roll up your sleeves suck it up buttercup look what those two just did yeah they proved it they're heroes man their kids are going to college now and you know why stacey looked up and said i don't have the money that scares me i feel like a bad mom i'm not doing this yeah you know they happen to life instead of everything happening to them they just decided we're going to happen to this problem and that is just inspiring.

[1562] Yeah, pretty incredible.

[1563] Way to go, heroes.

[1564] Way to go.

[1565] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1566] Our scripture of the day, Psalms 1 -1, Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked, or stand in the way that sinners take, or sit in the company of mockers.

[1567] Sit in the company of mockers.

[1568] Hmm.

[1569] Al Bernstein says success is often the result of taking a misstep in the right direction.

[1570] I'll go with that.

[1571] I can resemble that.

[1572] Folks, selling a house the Ramsey way makes home buying and home selling a blessing instead of a curse.

[1573] The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent you can trust that we trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and get the best offer on your house or find the right house for you.

[1574] We send you some of the top agents in your area and we have vetted them and that's the only reason we trust them.

[1575] many of them we've worked with for decades.

[1576] We interview them, we decide which one you want to work with, and then Ramsey, you decide which one you want to work with.

[1577] Then Ramsey trusted agents have years of experience.

[1578] They know how to get a house sold.

[1579] Check them out.

[1580] Find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free at Ramsey Solutions .com slash agent.

[1581] Kyle is in Memphis.

[1582] Hey, Kyle, welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1583] Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[1584] I appreciate it.

[1585] Sure, man. What's up?

[1586] Hey, so I'm currently trying to decide if I should call.

[1587] quit my day job and pursue what is currently my side hustle.

[1588] I have a degree in landscape design.

[1589] I really enjoy doing it.

[1590] And what I do is I build custom outdoor living spaces, patios, pergolas, big kitchens and stuff like that.

[1591] That's your side hustle?

[1592] That's what I did full time.

[1593] My wife is in dental school.

[1594] I'm sorry.

[1595] What's your side hustle?

[1596] Doing that.

[1597] Oh, okay.

[1598] What's your job?

[1599] Your day job.

[1600] I'm just a project manager with a commercial construction company.

[1601] Okay.

[1602] All right.

[1603] And how much are you making on your side hustle?

[1604] Well, right now, I've grossed $100 ,000 for the year right now, and I've netted 48, 49, something like that.

[1605] What do you make in your day job?

[1606] 60.

[1607] So we're really close, right?

[1608] No, you already made $4 ,000.

[1609] Yeah, I know, but he's making 60.

[1610] I'm saying he's close to...

[1611] No, no, no, no. He's made 48 in six months.

[1612] In six months, I'm sorry.

[1613] Annualizes 100.

[1614] I'm making more at your side job than your job or day job.

[1615] That's right.

[1616] So, yeah, interesting.

[1617] Why would you stay?

[1618] Oh, well, the kicker is we're only in Memphis for another 18 months.

[1619] My wife is finishing up dental school in just under two years, and we don't know where we're going to go, but neither her things.

[1620] family or my family is from Memphis, and we're definitely getting out of there.

[1621] During the 18 months that you're there, you have the ability to make $100 ,000 a year working on your own, right?

[1622] Yeah, I do.

[1623] Or you could work for the other people and make 60.

[1624] Yeah.

[1625] Or you could do both.

[1626] Well, that's kind of the kicker.

[1627] So I approached my current boss and wanted to make sure I was in the clear because we're a commercial construction company.

[1628] What I'm doing is all residential, but it is still construction, so I wanted to make sure I was up front and that there was no compete issues.

[1629] He gave me the green light.

[1630] I guess he wasn't aware of the scale of the projects I was doing and how efficient I could be at doing them, you know, doing, you know, do a whole project like that on the weekend.

[1631] So he came back after about two months and said that he had changed his mind and he would only allow me to do it if I brought him my lead database and all the customers that I had run demographics on to advertise to let him pick through them run the leads he wanted to sell and then give me the rest and I mean he doesn't sell them in that market you're saying exactly so now he wants to get into the market um no I think it's more of a pride thing no I'm sorry he wants to sell to your leads that's correct but they don't currently have a product line in you in that segment you said that's correct so now because you're successful he wants to open up in your segment that's correct yeah he's he's taking authority doesn't have it's not his call yeah bye -bye yeah yeah and can I just jump on what we said earlier Kyle because Dave's right you're making more money in the 18 months that your wife is finishing school but you don't have to leave right away and this is a transition plan for you.

[1632] You're making more, which means you're saving more.

[1633] And now if you and your wife figure out where we want to go in the great United States, wherever you want to go, well, guess what?

[1634] You're still working for yourself.

[1635] You take some time and figure out, all right, I've got experience.

[1636] I know how to build this business.

[1637] Where is the best place to go?

[1638] I just think that it puts you in the absolute best position, short term and long term, to go ahead and cut ties and work for yourself is there something going on at or at the current place that i'm missing because you painted this guy up to be a complete opportunist crook he's he's been with the company for 40 years everybody knows he's kind of a problem but they can't really get rid of him because he's been there so long they don't he just he's a problem all the way around and And so, I don't know.

[1639] If you want to stay, I would jump above the chain of command.

[1640] I'd go above his head and say, look, here's what he told me, and now here's what he's trying to do.

[1641] And so I'm going to quit if you guys don't, if you guys enforce what he wants me to do.

[1642] I'm going to put his head on the block.

[1643] Okay.

[1644] Well, I mean, you'll be honest, I was kind of hoping, kind of hoping you guys would say that.

[1645] Yeah, you have nothing to lose.

[1646] I guess I was kind of.

[1647] What are they going to do?

[1648] Say, no, we're going to keep him.

[1649] He's been here 40 years.

[1650] He's a problem.

[1651] You're screwed, fired.

[1652] And then you go do your thing.

[1653] You don't lose anything in this conversation.

[1654] You can kind of swagger in there with a take this job and shove it attitude.

[1655] That's right.

[1656] I mean, you don't have to be a smart ankle, but I would go to his boss and say, listen, so -and -so told me this on this date.

[1657] You don't happen to have that on an email or anything, do you?

[1658] No, I did it all in person.

[1659] I probably should have got it.

[1660] No, that's fine.

[1661] That's fine.

[1662] I would have followed up with an email for C -YA.

[1663] but especially if you know the guy's a potential problem.

[1664] But anyway, too late now.

[1665] It doesn't matter because you're going to keep doing the side gig.

[1666] The only question is whether you're going to continue to work at this place.

[1667] If you're taking our advice, that's what we're advising you to do.

[1668] So if you want to just walk out, that's fine and go do it.

[1669] That's fine.

[1670] If you want to keep both potentially but have an adversarial relationship with said Goober, then you probably jump over Goober's head and you sit down with his boss.

[1671] and go look he told me this now he's telling me this and i'm not going to do that so he's so now you guys have to decide are you going to allow me to do this or am i are you going to force me to quit yeah i quick follow up on this kyle is what do you think that his his boss is going to say to you got a gut um yeah i real quick tell me what you think what's your gut telling you they're going to fire you're going to work it out i think he'd tell me you need to quit or you're getting the boot.

[1672] So I've got a quick, Dave, I want to run this by Dave real quick, Kyle.

[1673] I want Dave to take on my second thought.

[1674] I think I call this dude's bluff.

[1675] I think he's a bully.

[1676] I think he's a bully who's been somewhat successful.

[1677] We see this all the time in small business, and they're scared to deal with him because they perceive value in him, and I think he's a bully.

[1678] And if that's true, I wouldn't go above his head because of that very reason.

[1679] I just look at him and go, hey, man, I'll do respect.

[1680] I don't have to give you any leads at all.

[1681] And that's not what you told me. I'm just going to keep doing my thing.

[1682] And just be respectful, like Dave said, not be a jerk about it, but call his bluff.

[1683] See if he's got, you think he'll fire you?

[1684] He might.

[1685] But kind of like you said, and what my whole logic was.

[1686] So what?

[1687] Not that big a deal.

[1688] Is he a bully?

[1689] Am I on to something?

[1690] or am I wrong?

[1691] I don't mind being wrong.

[1692] Cowardly?

[1693] Yeah, I think it's more of a cowardly thing.

[1694] He's not a people person.

[1695] He's very detail -oriented and he's, um...

[1696] Are you taking time away from your current job to do your sad hustle?

[1697] No, sir.

[1698] I strictly do it even as a weekend.

[1699] So you're not, you're not cheating them in any way.

[1700] No, sir.

[1701] I'm with Ken. I believe I'm going on with Ken on this.

[1702] Call his bluff or just walk out, one of the two.

[1703] Either one's fine with me. That's right.

[1704] Either one's fine with me. There's nothing fun about this whole thing.

[1705] I'd probably just leaving.

[1706] I don't want to deal with that crap, but life's too short kind of category.

[1707] That puts this hour in the books.

[1708] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1709] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[1710] Dr. John Deloney here.

[1711] Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships.

[1712] It's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you.

[1713] The Dr. John Deloney's show is here to help.

[1714] It's a caller -driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more.

[1715] Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call.

[1716] You are never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about.

[1717] Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.

[1718] Remember, your worth being well.