Mark Rober (engineer & inventor)

[0] Happy Thanksgiving.

[1] Happy Thanksgiving, turkey.

[2] Welcome, welcome, welcome to the special Thanksgiving episode of Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.

[3] Wow, I miss the turkey.

[4] Well, and, spoiler, there's no turkey talk within the actual episode.

[5] So we had to give it to you hard up front in the intro.

[6] That's right.

[7] But we're thankful for you, regardless of whether we address that or not.

[8] It's more than that.

[9] Like, we owe the listeners, like, to wash their car or something, you know.

[10] Okay, that can be your task.

[11] Okay, yeah.

[12] Oh, you're providing a Christmas guide.

[13] I guess that's a gift back.

[14] Sure.

[15] And also, maybe I'll make them some cookies.

[16] Okay, okay.

[17] TBD.

[18] How that's going to.

[19] I was going to work out.

[20] Today we have someone who's become a personal friend of mine.

[21] He was a NASA engineer.

[22] NASA, yeah.

[23] Yeah, NASA is the island in Bahamas.

[24] Yeah.

[25] He did not work for the business.

[26] Bohemian government.

[27] Bahamian?

[28] Bohemian?

[29] Boy, sorry, Mark.

[30] Mark Rober, he was an engineer at NASA.

[31] And most importantly, he got even with people who steal Amazon packages.

[32] That's how I came to know Mark Rober.

[33] He's one of the biggest YouTubers to ever exist.

[34] His videos have hundreds of millions of views.

[35] And he put these amazing glitter bombs and fart bombs and drones inside of the...

[36] He's Amazon packages.

[37] Like, you don't want to piss off a NASA engineer.

[38] Mm -mm.

[39] He also has a new show called Reven Engineers coming out in 2023.

[40] He and Kimmel partner up.

[41] That'll be on the Discovery Channel.

[42] And he is a really cool STEM kit that kids can build called Crunch Labs Build Box.

[43] They're very cool.

[44] I was shot by a projectile, one of my children made with the box.

[45] Oh, my God.

[46] Yeah, really hit hard.

[47] And I'm not in this episode, so don't think I'm just napping.

[48] You're not napping.

[49] You were in transit from Atlanta after that.

[50] What's the 30 ,000?

[51] Leagues under the sea?

[52] 20 ,000 leagues under the sea?

[53] How high am I. You're 30 ,000 feet in the air.

[54] Okay, yeah, yeah.

[55] I got nervous that was the wrong number.

[56] All right.

[57] It was 30 ,000 feet.

[58] Six miles up.

[59] Were you joining the Mile High Club while you were in transit?

[60] No. Oh, it's not that great.

[61] I don't want to discourage people.

[62] from trying it but it's a tight tight area that's very high traffic and very stinky and unhygienic yeah i think i'm too old for it maybe when i was young and i cared less about germs i was young it was a night flight it was uncomfortable i guess if mark wants to join the mile high club with you offers on the table i'll think about it okay great please enjoy mark rober Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[63] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[64] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[65] He's an armchair expert.

[66] He's an armchair next.

[67] Oh, God.

[68] This is really embarrassing.

[69] That's another thing.

[70] Is it a pipe broke?

[71] So we turn the wall.

[72] Oh, my gosh.

[73] Can you turn the wire?

[74] Okay, I love you.

[75] Okay, you sit here.

[76] There's a water for you here.

[77] Okay.

[78] But again, you don't want anything fun.

[79] No, yeah, yeah, I'm good.

[80] I normally go eat breakfast or drink coffee, but the lovely James Kimmel just gave me both.

[81] You were just with Jimmy?

[82] Yeah, yeah, I stayed at his house.

[83] Oh, that's where you're staying in the town.

[84] The barn.

[85] Is there right and the left?

[86] It doesn't really matter.

[87] Whoever's not going to tug on you.

[88] Okay.

[89] You're an engineer.

[90] You should have been able to thought this through.

[91] I can hear you so well.

[92] Too well?

[93] You can never hear Dachshepard too well.

[94] Well, listen, what's nice is we can kind of whisper to each other and we hear each other really well.

[95] Let's do this ASMR.

[96] Oh, my gosh.

[97] Have you experimented with ASMR?

[98] I love ASMR.

[99] Like I'm one of the people where it does something for me. You are?

[100] Yeah.

[101] I'm so jealous.

[102] I've listened to it.

[103] It's soothing no matter what.

[104] Yeah.

[105] But it doesn't give me the euphoria.

[106] It actually gives you it.

[107] It doesn't seem like it to the extent that it does it for other people, but on the spectrum, I'm not on the, left side.

[108] I'm not fully on one side.

[109] You're a seven or something?

[110] Yeah, maybe six and a half, seven.

[111] Do you know anything about that?

[112] What's going on physiologically?

[113] For my understanding, no one really does.

[114] It's one of those great things about the internet where like a lot of people have the sensation and they didn't realize there was other people out there like them.

[115] And now there's a name for it in a community.

[116] I know so little about it.

[117] Are there people who are spending 10, 12 hours a day?

[118] To me, that sounds like a drug without seeming probably any consequence.

[119] But isn't it true with drugs, the dopamine goes asymptotic?

[120] Like, it eventually wears off.

[121] And you, is that true?

[122] You get in dopamine deficits.

[123] Yeah.

[124] So I don't know.

[125] Possibly.

[126] Luckily, I'm not to that extent.

[127] I think you would be interested in it, actually.

[128] And I'm going to be speaking outside of my depth.

[129] But as I understand it, so certain drugs are better and worse ROI, right?

[130] There are drugs that predictably kind of give you the outcome.

[131] And then there's others that you adapt to quite quickly.

[132] And it is diminished return really fast.

[133] So alcohol is great.

[134] I mean, it's got to be why it's been with us for so long.

[135] Consistently, right?

[136] Yeah, yeah.

[137] Because oh, fucking, here's my, here's my adorable wife.

[138] Yeah.

[139] I can't turn the water on because the guys have all the pipes down here open.

[140] I just turned it on and it like blew water out of all the pipes.

[141] Oh, cool.

[142] What a joy this is.

[143] All right, I love you.

[144] Thanks for trying.

[145] There's piss in the toilet.

[146] Well, do you want me to send you up some bleach spray so it'll not smell?

[147] Rob, can you smell...

[148] I can't, Mark, yeah.

[149] So many people say that, because that's Mark Rover.

[150] I know, but listen, and I was just typing your name a bunch of times.

[151] And I'm caught between mediums.

[152] How embarrassing.

[153] I just call Mark Rob.

[154] It's good.

[155] It's good.

[156] But also Rob is in here.

[157] Actually, now I'm going to go back and say I was talking to Rob.

[158] Yeah, yeah.

[159] I could call it.

[160] Can you smell it, Rob?

[161] No, okay.

[162] And I can't either, for what it's worth.

[163] Okay.

[164] I'll give you a bottle of bleach to spray, so nobody has to try to be polite.

[165] No, that would be.

[166] a bigger interruption at this point.

[167] I would say it.

[168] Yeah, Mark would say it.

[169] Okay.

[170] I love you.

[171] Thanks for your efforts and your service and your looks.

[172] The whole package.

[173] That was a fun behind the curtain.

[174] By the way, is this the podcast?

[175] Did we start?

[176] What?

[177] Yes, ABR always be recording.

[178] Oh, man. That's how we get such a relaxed free flow.

[179] You're a trickster, so it should happen to you occasionally.

[180] You better not make me cry, by the way.

[181] I feel like you're like the Oprah of the podcast scene.

[182] I don't do these very often.

[183] Okay, so your fears, let's get them on the table, is that you might cry.

[184] Yeah.

[185] That's one.

[186] What's another fear?

[187] I just don't want to cry.

[188] Okay, we'll try to stay out of crying.

[189] Although, I'm going to cheat right now, make you cry.

[190] Okay.

[191] Look at this.

[192] Okay.

[193] Damn you.

[194] For the listener, I just showed Mark a really beautiful bracelet that his son made me about four months ago now or three months ago.

[195] And I'm going to wear it until either my hand falls off because it's a little too snug for me. Or it fails and breaks.

[196] Like truly right out of the gate You just cut right to the core I knew it I knew this was gonna happen It's rare that I have like an artifact To help me Yeah a secret weapon Truly that is one of the most Lovely touching things When you, a month ago you told me You were still wearing it You had to be suspicious I wasn't really I started checking all the photos Oh okay Of course and then sure enough You know pinch zoom in hands There it is And my son all also was really happy to hear that.

[197] Oh, good.

[198] I mean, mainly that's all I want.

[199] For it to get back to him and for him to know.

[200] He was so stoked.

[201] Okay, Greg.

[202] Back to the drugs.

[203] So alcohol is great, right?

[204] This is the one amazing thing about alcohol.

[205] Even though I was an alcoholic, the neat thing about it is at any point you can choose to get too drunk, even if you're a seasoned alcoholic.

[206] You can only build up so much tolerance to it.

[207] I don't know what it is biomechanically, what's happening, but it works.

[208] Opiates are the worst.

[209] Did you end up breeding molecule Memorial.

[210] You and I talked about it when we were on vacation together.

[211] It's the book on dopamine by this Stanford professor.

[212] It's downloaded in my audible.

[213] Okay, you got to listen to it.

[214] Yeah, I will.

[215] I will.

[216] I will.

[217] But anyways, it's just about what an incredible mechanism the body is at reaching homeostasis.

[218] Right.

[219] You can't outsmart it.

[220] You pull one lever and then it will adjust.

[221] A blessing and a curse, right?

[222] Yes.

[223] And so the opiate one is interesting because, as you know, it blocks the receptors.

[224] And so there's no uptake and then you have euphoria.

[225] Well, you're body quickly goes, we should be receiving way more pain messaging.

[226] I see.

[227] Let's grow more receptors.

[228] So now you just proliferate your body with all these pain receptors, which is why when you go off them, they're also severe.

[229] Because you're way too many now.

[230] That's fascinating.

[231] And that includes heroin, all the pain pills.

[232] Yeah, percocet, phycodidin, fentanyl issue.

[233] Yeah, what a crazy thing we went through is a country where those are just being prescribed for everything.

[234] And then it's like, Yeah, maybe not.

[235] You know?

[236] Did you ever have oral surgery or anything?

[237] Yeah, so I've taken them.

[238] Do you remember the first time you took one of those opiates?

[239] Yeah, and it was like, that feels good.

[240] I don't think I ended up using all of them.

[241] They just went in my drawer and it was great.

[242] It helped, but I don't have that part.

[243] And we talked about this a little bit because you can get into a thing and just be like so consumed in it, which I think is just like a lovely personality trip.

[244] It's such a positive thing.

[245] Obviously, it has a downside.

[246] And I'm somewhere in the middle of the bell curve on that word.

[247] I like it.

[248] I enjoy it, I'll get into it, but I don't get consumed by it.

[249] Higher on the SMR scale, but lower on the addiction scale.

[250] Anyways, cocaine, the last one, I'll just bring up, which is really an interesting one.

[251] It's a triple inhibitor.

[252] It's dopamine inhibitor, serotonin inhibitor, and then like neuroepidepidifrin or something.

[253] It inhibits them?

[254] It won't uptake.

[255] In the same way that an SSRI works, cocaine immediately blocks all uptake of every good chemical you have in your body.

[256] So it's just pooling in your brain.

[257] and you're experiencing it.

[258] It blocks it?

[259] To me, that means you're not experiencing it.

[260] What do you mean?

[261] So your body's making a set amount of, let's say, dopamine.

[262] Yeah, yeah.

[263] Right, when it's not in an elevated aroused state.

[264] And so it's making it, and then the brain is uptaking it, and that's taking it out of the system, and then it makes more.

[265] So it just blocks all uptake.

[266] So now it just starts fucking like a dam.

[267] I see, I see.

[268] Building pressure.

[269] I hope that's a good sales pitch for cocaine for anyone who's on the fence.

[270] Yeah.

[271] Okay, so I want to first say how we've become friends And I think I talked about it enough times on here over the summer That my family had joined you and yours up at Kimmel's Fishing Lodge Yeah, yeah Jimmy's been talking about you for years to me We meet there at this fishing lodge And it's a very fun group of people There's actors, you've got a talk show host You've got a podcaster A couple of podcasters A couple of podcasts Yeah, yes, he has baitment Bateman, yeah Titan in the industry a news anchor and then you and you're the only person there that's got an engineering degree so I'm on you like stink on shit do you want to walk people through the courtship yeah it was one of those situations where we sit down this is why I was like you better not make me cry first of all there's all these cool things to do you can fish you can horseback ride you can whitewater raft and you're like why would I do any of those things I can do those whenever there's a bunch of cool people here I'd rather just sit down and talk and I'm like that's a lovely outlook.

[272] Oh my God, I thought you were saying that, and I was going to say, yes, that's my exact position.

[273] And so we sit down, and I think it was Molly or someone walked by, literally after 10 minutes, and we were deep in it already.

[274] This is something I really do admire and love about you.

[275] You've got these cool tattoos, freaking scars, you can do cool dirt bite tricks.

[276] In fact, even at the lodge, you had your RV.

[277] You wouldn't just walk to the lodge.

[278] You rode your dirt bike to the lodge.

[279] And yet, you're just so open and honest and vulnerable, and for a lot of dudes, I'm none of those things, but I'm an engineer, which has its own way of kind of being uptight.

[280] You've kind of turned me on to a new way to interact with people and the loveliness of just being open and honest and just getting to it.

[281] Oh, and how great that is.

[282] Oh, thank you.

[283] I loved it.

[284] And as I think I professed to you right away, I'm going to try to wow you.

[285] Yeah, yeah, yeah, you did.

[286] Everything I can remember from physics and engineering.

[287] I'm going to try to get them out on the table.

[288] And you did.

[289] I'm not going to lie I was courting you like yeah you were an 11 or the pageant winner or something you were the hot girl in high school we got to add because it'll come up there was also a bona fide green beret there yes Sean great dude now a writer just a well -rounded group of people to be getting into some shit with yeah I mean that's one of the lovely things about Jimmy Kimmel obviously he has access to everybody and I think just the people he chooses to surround himself with is just like good people.

[290] Yeah, I agree.

[291] You know what I mean?

[292] I agree.

[293] There's a lot of really amazing, lovely people in Hollywood.

[294] Some, I think, are doing it for the wrong reasons, but there's a ton who are doing it for the right reasons.

[295] And anyone who Jimmy is around, those are the ones who are doing it for the right reasons.

[296] Yeah, he's a good filter.

[297] He's a human filter.

[298] Great filter, yeah.

[299] Okay, so you hosted his show this summer, which is incredible.

[300] That has to be incredibly nerve -wracking.

[301] Yeah, super weird and wild, and what the heck am I doing here?

[302] I'm like a frigginer.

[303] Yes.

[304] Yes.

[305] Worked at NASA for nine years and Apple for four and hosting Jimmy Kimmel Live.

[306] But in your monologue, you point out that everyone there in the audience's children would know who you are and likely none of the people in the audience.

[307] And then you do a great man on the street bet where you're interviewing kids.

[308] Yeah, and adults.

[309] I will say there was a few adults who did know who I was that we cut them out.

[310] Yeah, it's not good comedy.

[311] It was so lovely too because the kids obviously are pretty enamored.

[312] So my background is I started making YouTube videos a decade ago.

[313] How old is YouTube?

[314] YouTube started like 2005, I think.

[315] So you might have even felt late.

[316] Yeah, 100%.

[317] And back then, by the way, like, you couldn't make money off YouTube.

[318] That's not why anyone did it.

[319] I had an iPad in front and iPad in bag.

[320] It was a Halloween costume.

[321] You do a FaceTime chat.

[322] It looks like you have a hole in your body.

[323] Goes kind of viral.

[324] 1 .5 million views first.

[325] Yeah, that's right.

[326] And I'm like, well, this is kind of a cool feeling.

[327] I have more ideas.

[328] I never wanted to be a public figure.

[329] Even to this day, it just comes with the job, you know?

[330] I don't like even freaking at birthdays where everyone's like singing a song at me. Same.

[331] Uncomfortable with it.

[332] So, yeah, I just put a video out a month for like 11 years.

[333] And now the stunts are like, world's largest jello pool or super soaker.

[334] I do these glitter bombs.

[335] I'm not in your age demo.

[336] Someone forwarded it to me like, oh my God, you got to see what this guy did to these motherfuckers who steal Amazon packages.

[337] And for me, I'm like, yeah, these animals that are stealing these.

[338] packages.

[339] Digress for one second.

[340] Of course they're stealing them.

[341] To us, it became so normal that you have all this bounty sitting on your porch for 10 hours at a time, just sitting waiting.

[342] Presumably, it was worth you ordering it.

[343] It has some value.

[344] Yeah, itish.

[345] I mean, but things are so specific.

[346] What if in the 80s your mom went shopping and when she got home, she just left her trunk open for 10 hours and then when she came back, she wouldn't have been shocked.

[347] Some stuff was gone.

[348] Anyways, I think it is funny.

[349] It's funny.

[350] Have you ever had a package stolen from you?

[351] Yes.

[352] It feels so personal.

[353] Like you're just violated.

[354] That was what I felt like this indignation.

[355] And it was like a $3 lock, ironically, is what these two people stole.

[356] Because at first I went to the police and they're like, what do you want us to do?

[357] Which is like, of course, that's true.

[358] You should be fighting bigger crime.

[359] I had footage, but they're like what?

[360] Exactly.

[361] So it's like, you know what if anyone's going to do something about these punks?

[362] You have to take the law into your own hands?

[363] Yeah.

[364] So I freaking help put a rover on Mars.

[365] I can design something.

[366] And so that's where it's like, well, everyone hates glitter.

[367] Farts spray smells real bad.

[368] If I have four phones in there that could track it, record it, upload the footage to the cloud.

[369] And so I just went nuts.

[370] Do you remember the budget of that first stunt?

[371] Are you monetizing yet?

[372] Yeah, at that point, I started having sponsors.

[373] Okay.

[374] So you had a little budget.

[375] Because when I first watched, I was like, this person put thousands of dollars into this prank.

[376] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[377] That's right.

[378] I don't really have a budget.

[379] I just like do whatever needs to be done, right?

[380] I haven't lost money on a video in a really long time, if ever.

[381] So, yes, for people who have not seen the video, if you haven't, stop right now, pause this, go watch this video.

[382] It's incredible.

[383] You succeed in getting these packages stolen.

[384] And it's all recorded.

[385] And when the people get them home and they open up the boxes to see what's in there.

[386] Like a pound of the world's finest glitter sprays out.

[387] And then we wanted to retrieve the phones and everything.

[388] So the fart spray is actually there.

[389] And they just start spraying in the box.

[390] Yes.

[391] And the countdown starts.

[392] Nothing happens at the end of the countdown, but they don't know that.

[393] Right.

[394] I mean, already many things are happening to them that have never happened before.

[395] So anything's possible.

[396] Total chaos.

[397] Armchair Xer exclusive.

[398] This year's Glitter Bomb 5 .0.

[399] So each year, I completely scrap it and come up with like a new engineering solution.

[400] Like, what are we going to level it up?

[401] And this year when you lift the lid, drones fly out and spray the glitter.

[402] And they have proximity sensors too.

[403] So it'll fly to the corner of the room.

[404] And then when they go to like chase it with the broom, it'll just like fly to the other part of the room.

[405] room bug.

[406] Except the opposite because it leaves glitter and it's true.

[407] Yes, yes, it's making a mess instead of cleaning one.

[408] What sensor does that?

[409] Is it sound based?

[410] Effectively, yeah, it'll bounce something out and then see what comes back.

[411] And if it comes back quick, that means I'm closer.

[412] Oh, wow.

[413] So these were successful.

[414] I saw them.

[415] I thought this was the most incredible thing ever.

[416] Is this your first enormous hit?

[417] More or less, where it's like all over the media and stuff.

[418] I did have one where it's like how to skin a watermelon.

[419] It's really dumb.

[420] It's hard to explain unless you see the thumbnail.

[421] It was a time where you're YouTube really was pushing thumbnails.

[422] So that was like the first one that really, really popped.

[423] Because that somehow got into their promotional.

[424] It got into their promotional.

[425] But the Glitterbaum one was just all over the media.

[426] Yeah, it made local news everywhere.

[427] Now the watermelon one, of course, you split a watermelon and you pull it apart and it's just the most beautiful, it almost looks like a dinosaur egg.

[428] The trick is you get two watermills are about the same size.

[429] You slice off all the watermelon on one and kind of sand it down with like a brillo pad.

[430] So it looks really smooth.

[431] you cut the other one in half, core it out, and then put the guts of it, that's all smooth, inside the other one.

[432] And then when you peel it apart at a party, it's like, wait, what?

[433] You know what I mean?

[434] So that one has trickery.

[435] Yeah, a little bit of trickery.

[436] Which is so funny because it's like so different than any other video.

[437] I think I have like five or six videos with over 100 million views.

[438] That's, I think, the one that still has the most views.

[439] Really?

[440] Yeah.

[441] Really, just most of those views came at the right time with the algorithm, which was kind of a funny story because I just started working at Apple and they didn't want me. me to post YouTube videos.

[442] And I'm like, you guys came to me and wanted me to work for you.

[443] I'm posting videos.

[444] Yeah.

[445] What was their fear?

[446] There's just no upside for them having someone who works for Apple doing YouTube videos.

[447] They don't need the promotion.

[448] And if I do something stupid, all of a sudden, it's a headline, right?

[449] And I'm like, by the way, my channel's not even that big.

[450] Like, the videos don't get that many views.

[451] And so then I waited three months, posted my first video, it was that water bill.

[452] And like, immediately like 60 million views.

[453] Oh my God.

[454] And did they say anything to you?

[455] No. They probably just, liked it.

[456] Yeah, but they were always nervous about it.

[457] Even when I went on Kimmel the first time, it made it all the way up to one step under Tim Cook.

[458] His answer was like, we should be focused on making great products.

[459] So he didn't explicitly say no. So I was like, that was enough for me to be like, well, he didn't say no. Plus, it's what I'm doing on my free time.

[460] If I don't say I'm working for Apple, they can't tell me I can't kayak on the weekend, right?

[461] I completely agree with you.

[462] So I did it, and that turned out to be a good decision.

[463] Eventually, it leaked because I did a patent that was how to use virtual reality and self -driving cards.

[464] Like, I was the lead author on this really extensive patent.

[465] It got a ton of coverage in the media.

[466] Some called it the patent of the decade.

[467] I'm just saying, I'm just repeating.

[468] I'm just quoting here.

[469] But no one noticed I was lead author.

[470] And then like a year later, someone's like, wait a second.

[471] And so Variety leaked it.

[472] People were calling.

[473] And it was like, this is what I was trying to avoid this whole time.

[474] And in the end, it was like, wasn't a big deal.

[475] Yeah, it's fun for people when you find out that, the leading heart surgeons, also a chainsaw juggler at the Renaissance Festival.

[476] Any times two seemingly unrelated things are coincided.

[477] It's exciting.

[478] Yeah.

[479] And so it was a big pile of nothing in the end.

[480] Okay.

[481] So I'm going to read a couple of the ones that people also may have seen.

[482] And then we're going to come back to this.

[483] Because I actually want to know what led up to this point.

[484] But your squirrel obstacle course, that seems to be the one right now that I hear people chatting about the most.

[485] Yeah, yeah, sure.

[486] One of them has 100 million views.

[487] Again, annoyed.

[488] They pissed you on.

[489] off.

[490] So this was the first video in the pandemic.

[491] And all of a sudden I was stuck at home.

[492] What are you going to do?

[493] You know, I heard some squirrels on the roof.

[494] I was like, oh, what if I did like squirrel versus engineer?

[495] Like, what would that look like?

[496] And I did kind of have a bird feeder and the squirrels would eat it.

[497] So I was like, what if the whole premise of the video is, I'm going to make a crazy ninja warrior obstacle course for these squirrels?

[498] They want the bird seed.

[499] They got to earn it.

[500] Because the birds could come up and fly to it.

[501] But the squirrels are going to have to really go for it.

[502] And I had nothing else to do because it's the pandemic.

[503] So I just got up at 6 a .m. and filmed squirrels like a nature photographer in my backyard for four hours.

[504] And then at some point you got two months worth of footage and that squirrels are crafty little buggers.

[505] Oh, they really are.

[506] We have an infestation here in our yard.

[507] They're in every corner.

[508] They quarrel with each other non -stop.

[509] Yeah.

[510] Oh, yeah.

[511] So they're always like engaged in some kind of high flying, big time wrestling.

[512] And I think all the time, granted, I'm a little obsessed with primates, but once a week, I think we have a primate in our neighborhood.

[513] Nothing other than our primate could be making that much noise in a tree.

[514] Yeah, they have this call Yeah, well, and just they're shaking the whole fucking tree I'm like, oh, there's some holler monkeys up there Someone got one as a pet, let it go These things happen Yeah, yeah I love primates too Tell me why I just think they're so fascinating We have more in common DNA -wise To chimps than like mice due to rats And just going to the zoo I love just looking at the chimps It's so fascinating Yeah, have you been to Africa?

[515] I haven't, I want to Yeah, you got to prioritize that If you're like us and you're into that.

[516] Oh, yeah.

[517] I remember seeing you guys, didn't you do like an Africa video when you guys are down there?

[518] We did.

[519] Speaking of viral videos.

[520] I love the commitment to that too because you were in like seven different scenes, but I think you had to sing the full song at each scene, right?

[521] What compounded that was there's no internet where we're at.

[522] Yeah.

[523] We don't know the lyrics to the song.

[524] Right?

[525] So we're like listening to the song over and over again and trying.

[526] What do they say?

[527] Yeah.

[528] So my main hurdle in that was just learning the lyrics.

[529] They're crazy lyrics.

[530] You've got Serengetti and Kilimanjaro on one song.

[531] How they made those words fit into the song.

[532] I mean, they almost didn't.

[533] They kind of sneak up in.

[534] That's what makes it so great.

[535] And then the other thing was a lot of the animals were fucking around with, they're not to be played with.

[536] Like the hippos in particular.

[537] Sure, sure, sure.

[538] We all know they're the most dangerous animal in Africa, right?

[539] Side note, have you seen that Pablo Escobar's hippos were left behind?

[540] Do you know this story?

[541] Oh, no. So he had this great big zoo, and they had this huge, pond and he's like well let's get some hippos he gets killed then the government goes in and takes all the animals and they send them to zoos around columbia but they don't know what to do with the fucking hippos and they're like we'll just leave them oh no okay over the years since then since 88 they have multiplied they're like an invasive species they're an invasive they killed some cows this is what brought the government's attention if you've never seen one in the wild they're kind of beyond description and how big they are like we saw one out of the water next to the car, and it appears bigger than Elvin, because it's low to the ground.

[542] So they kill some cows.

[543] They dispatch the National Guard or whatever their military is.

[544] They kill this hippo, right?

[545] They post the picture somewhere.

[546] The country's outraged.

[547] They don't like seeing the dead hippo.

[548] They make an actual law in the Constitution.

[549] You can't kill a hippo.

[550] It's illegal under any circumstance now in Colombia.

[551] So now there's this just growing population of hippos.

[552] They leave this area.

[553] They're roaming around the jungle.

[554] They're displacing other species.

[555] He's single -handedly.

[556] introduce hippos to South America.

[557] That's crazy.

[558] That seems just like a bad idea.

[559] I was thinking of the ethics of it all.

[560] Does it matter which animals there?

[561] You don't want to mess up an ecosystem that's reached homeostasis after like hundreds of thousands of years.

[562] Are you going to tip the balance in a way that's catastrophic?

[563] The story of planet Earth is species coming into regions they hadn't previously been in and displacing other animals.

[564] I mean, these ones took a plane, which is a bit of a shortcut I don't know I just thought I don't know if there's wild hippos all over South America we love them all over Africa that's true I don't know it's great for tourism so but back to primates like just watching the chimps at the zoo there's certain mannerisms they do that are just like so human like and then one of them pooped in his hand and then like put it in his lip right here oh like chewing tobacco yeah yeah and then I was like maybe they're not so close to humans when I see that stuff I go back to my childhood.

[565] And the stuff I've seen boys do when unobserved.

[566] Like, we're very close to chips in our natural environment.

[567] You get kids in a field for more than eight hours unsupervised.

[568] There's some poop in the lips.

[569] Stuff just starts half.

[570] Yeah, it's crazy.

[571] Do you have a favorite primate in particular?

[572] Just chimps, I think, specifically, are just fascinating how they communicate.

[573] They're very scary, though, to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[574] You don't want one as a pet.

[575] No, no, no. So if you go to the L .A. Zoo, have been in the L. Zoo?

[576] Yeah, yeah, I've been there a bunch.

[577] Okay, if you stopped by the orangutan enclosure.

[578] Yep.

[579] Have you noticed that they have boxes of cereal and newspapers?

[580] Yeah.

[581] Right.

[582] So those orangutans are kind of my favorite, I think.

[583] They get real bored, real easy.

[584] They need constant stimulation.

[585] Yes, it's through weird things.

[586] So for a primitology class at UCLA, you had to do an ethology at the zoo.

[587] So you had to study them for however long and take all the notes you would take.

[588] And I was watching this orangutan opened up a new.

[589] newspaper and I can see it's upside down.

[590] I'm like, oh, this idiot.

[591] She didn't even know it's fucking enough.

[592] And she rotated it.

[593] No, really?

[594] Yes.

[595] Obviously, the pictures must have been upside.

[596] There was enough photos.

[597] I'm not claiming she could read.

[598] But just she was leafing through the Sunday paper.

[599] That's bonkers.

[600] Oh, I love it.

[601] Just getting to the comics.

[602] An early video of mine, at the beginning, it was all about really low budget.

[603] And this is a cool trick you can do.

[604] I love taking something that you could find, which is junk liner in her house, using it a different way.

[605] people are like, oh, I didn't think to put those two things together, right?

[606] So if you take your phone, turn into the front -facing camera, hit record, and then stick it up at a window at the zoo, the animals can see themselves.

[607] And you're getting amazing footage.

[608] So they will come up and look at their face really close.

[609] Use it as a mirror, essentially.

[610] So then I took that, I was like, oh, but what if I actually, for the orangutangutan, specifically, took a mirror, drilled a hole in it, put my phone behind it.

[611] I don't think the zoo condoned this is the LA Zoo.

[612] Okay.

[613] Took it there.

[614] And sure enough, because they're very.

[615] curious came right up like an inch away from my phone camera you see the pupils like dial it's just like incredible footage yeah why isn't anyone thought of that I love when people say that like how did I not think of this that's like the highest compliment you could give me well because you and I both watch enough nature shows where they'll hide a rock speaking of hippos this couple in a fucking rubber hippo don't say hippo suit yes and they got bit and the tusk went through the scientist's mandible out the front of his face he lived anyways just put a mirror up yeah yeah i wonder if they feel like you're introducing something into the situation they wouldn't find normally so that breaks a rule i'm sure that's the ethical debate but so much of this is like really murky if it's murky like if jonathan height did a morality experiment thought experiment on these you'd be like okay for why yeah where do you draw the line they look in a lake yeah can see the reflection in the water it's a great trick to get incredible footage at the zoo it's like it those like Ripley's believe it or not where you go in and they're like only one third of the people can flip their tongue over and so people are trying in this mirror and then the joke is when you leave it's a two -way mirror right and other people are watching and now you're gonna watch them talk about observing primates yeah you called them curious I would just say we're all vain as fuck yeah we're so fascinated with our own image that's what's funny is a third of the people who try actually probably like two -thirds they're not doing the tongue thing they're just fixing which is so great because by the way you're four inches from their face.

[616] I want to experience that.

[617] I feel like I missed that at a Ripley's.

[618] Yeah, yeah.

[619] It's a good social experiment.

[620] Okay, so you have some accreditation that lends itself well to these videos.

[621] I think if you didn't have them, the story just wouldn't be there.

[622] Like something about being able to say NASA engineer becomes a vigilante.

[623] It's a great story.

[624] By the way, that's why I kept telling people at Apple.

[625] It's like, nobody cares.

[626] I work for Apple.

[627] I worked for NASA before.

[628] That's way more of an interesting headline.

[629] Yes.

[630] I could get your opinion on this.

[631] I often think that the NASA name is bastardized.

[632] I'll give you an example.

[633] There is a popular face cream.

[634] And the selling point of this face cream, Lamar was that it was started by a NASA scientist.

[635] And I just was like, what the fuck does face cream have to do with that?

[636] You put that moniker in front of anybody and all of a sudden, like, well, this must be proprietary and breakthrough.

[637] Is bastardized the word?

[638] it's like, what's the word?

[639] Exploited?

[640] It's like prostitutized.

[641] It's poured out.

[642] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[643] Do you think that happens to some agree?

[644] Yeah, 100%.

[645] What's the most egregious one you've seen?

[646] This face cream is pretty wild.

[647] Just like tang, the sugar drink.

[648] Somehow they used NASA to market that, right?

[649] Yeah, it's for the astronauts.

[650] Yeah, or these pens.

[651] But to be honest, like, I'm a beneficiary of that where I was a mechanical engineer at NASA.

[652] I was a cognizant engineer, which means like I was in charge of a chunk on the rover.

[653] It's kind of cool.

[654] Having said that, though, like, no one really knows.

[655] knows exactly what I did there.

[656] And you could be a whole host of different positions there.

[657] You could be an HR at NASA.

[658] You could be an HR and you worked for freaking NASA.

[659] That's right.

[660] And by the way, there's at Lockheed Martin.

[661] There's other great companies.

[662] Even SpaceX that have really smart engineers just as smart in a lot of cases.

[663] But just something about NASA, I was really lucky.

[664] I totally agree with you that that's helped my YouTube career.

[665] Yeah, it has a cachet that I don't know any other.

[666] Even like you could say Harvard professor or whatever.

[667] I think NASA might be the pinnacle.

[668] Yeah.

[669] And having worked on the rover, it was just such a cool experience to be able to talk about that.

[670] The curiosity rover.

[671] Yeah, curiosity.

[672] Could have been called the Vane Rover?

[673] It could just replace it.

[674] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[675] If you dare.

[676] We've all been there.

[677] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[678] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[679] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[680] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[681] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[682] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[683] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[684] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[685] What's up, guys?

[686] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[687] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[688] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[689] And I don't mean just friends.

[690] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[691] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[692] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[693] Did you set out to work at NASA?

[694] You went to bring them young engineering, mechanical engineering, and then went to USC for...

[695] Yeah, grad school.

[696] But that was while I was working at NASA.

[697] In fact, they had a program where they would pay for grad school.

[698] And then when I had one class left, I left.

[699] They didn't get their money's worth.

[700] So they paid for all of the last class.

[701] Yeah, I left NASA.

[702] They've discontinued that program, so it's probably because of me. Yeah, I was always interested in space as much as the next kid, but it wasn't like, one day I will work and put things on other planets by any means.

[703] I would say I'm just like a general, curious person, you know, engineer type.

[704] Did the automotive space interest you?

[705] What do you think is the main employer of mechanical engineer graduates?

[706] Think of that's cool about mechanical engineers?

[707] It's so broad.

[708] like you could be working in such a variety of fields.

[709] Robotics, especially now, mechatronics.

[710] What's mechatronic?

[711] Electronics combines with, like, mechanical.

[712] The drone's a great example of that.

[713] Drones a good example.

[714] Or just like robotic arms and stuff would be mechatronics.

[715] So a professor's like, JPL is hiring, which stands for Jet Propulsion Lab.

[716] It's one of the NASA centers.

[717] We do all the unmanned stuff here in Pasadena.

[718] I thought he was talking about the speaker company.

[719] Oh, J .B. Yeah, yeah.

[720] And I was like, oh, no, this looks really cool.

[721] so I put my resume in the stack of resumes.

[722] Right place, right time, somehow I got the job.

[723] While you were still at bringing me out.

[724] Yeah, yeah.

[725] I mean, I was getting ready to graduate.

[726] So then that was just like my first job out of school.

[727] And do they offer you straight up employment?

[728] Is there a trial phase there?

[729] No, no, no. You just get hired.

[730] What is the grunt work that a mechanical engineer gets tasked with when they get an entry -level job?

[731] So there's like flight projects.

[732] Your thing is going to another planet.

[733] Or it's like, hey, do R &D to help inform a flight project.

[734] A lot of times it's R &D or you have a tiny, tiny, tiny chunk of the rover and you're supporting someone else.

[735] And with the R &D, what does it look like?

[736] You're actually going to build some prototypes and test them?

[737] That's right.

[738] Prototypes are like, hey, we want to land a probe on an asteroid.

[739] What's the best way, if you want to land on the asteroid and then stick yourself to it?

[740] If it's really, really soft and you have a hard plunger that goes in, then you're going to bounce yourself off.

[741] Uh -huh.

[742] Or vice versa, if it turns to be really, really hard and you've planned for something soft.

[743] You have to design something that works in all cases.

[744] Right.

[745] That's so tasty.

[746] There's a really clever solution for it.

[747] It's like a harpoon that goes out.

[748] It goes out really strong, unencumbered at first.

[749] And if it happens to be hard rock, it will go into the rock.

[750] That will stop the harpoon.

[751] You're locked in.

[752] It happens to be something soft.

[753] It will go out unencumbered at first.

[754] But then the harpoon that goes out will plasticly deform the sheet that's in and that will take all the energy from the harpoon going out.

[755] It stops itself by like deforming itself.

[756] Otherwise it would just go out and shoot straight through, right?

[757] Or you don't have too much impact.

[758] Clever solutions like that, you can test, and then when it's good enough, then it graduates to a flight project.

[759] Well, okay, so soon as the craft that's landed on the asteroid, soon as it propels the harpoon out of itself, it's pushing itself backwards with that same force.

[760] Well, that's exact.

[761] Equal opposite reaction.

[762] This would fascinate people.

[763] So when things are up in space, the space station, any of the satellite, anything that's up there, I think we could easily think of the space shuttle, When it wants to turn itself around, it basically has to release weight in the opposite direction.

[764] Yep.

[765] There's nothing that the thrust pushes against to move it.

[766] That's right.

[767] This is the thing.

[768] Let's say you were out working on the space station with your wrench and you realize you're not tethered in and you just let go.

[769] So now you're a foot away.

[770] There's literally nothing you could do to make up for that foot and get back to the station.

[771] You're just screwed.

[772] What about if you had a hammer in your hand?

[773] You threw it in the opposite direction.

[774] See, you're just like three steps ahead of me. God, this is so long.

[775] Because you had that wrench, all you can do now is just throw it the other way and conservation momentum states because the wrench weighs less than you.

[776] Let's say it weighs three times less than you.

[777] It will go out at three times the speed.

[778] You will come back.

[779] They're indirectly proportional.

[780] So if you throw it out that way, at three times you'll come back three times less the speed, but you'll make it back.

[781] And that's essentially what rockets are.

[782] And really quick too, right?

[783] All you need to do is set yourself in motion because there's no force acting against you to slow you down.

[784] So as long as you can get some momentum, even if it's very, very slow.

[785] Just be patient.

[786] Pull out of sandwich.

[787] Eat it.

[788] You will get back to the spacecraft.

[789] And so that's what rockets are is basically you're just throwing tiny wrenches out the back of the spacecraft to move in the other direction.

[790] Is that why the fuel is liquid?

[791] No, it makes a chemical reaction that then has speed because what you care about is speed and mass. And the stuff you shoot out doesn't weigh very much, but it's going real, real fast.

[792] And that's what's fascinating.

[793] about even getting the rover to Mars is that they have these motors that are mouse fart motors.

[794] That's literally what they call them.

[795] Okay.

[796] It's the tiniest little poof because that's all you need when Mars is so far away.

[797] Anything more than that, you'd miss the planet.

[798] Because once your point, once you're coasting, you're coasting.

[799] Right.

[800] So if you just redirected your trajectory by one one thousandth of a degree of a mouse fart.

[801] Yeah, over that great distance.

[802] It'll get you exactly.

[803] Huge distance.

[804] So you basically burned.

[805] your thrusters right at the beginning to get up to speed, 25 ,000 miles per hour, something is how it coasts to the red planet, which is like five times faster than a bullet.

[806] I think it's like 75 football fields and a half second, which is like a great unit of measurement.

[807] If you're standing at a 50 -yard line at a football game, I think 75 football fields in each direction, and in one second it would go from one end zone, you can even see it go by, right?

[808] Okay, so we were talking about also taking off from L .A. and landing in New York's in six minutes.

[809] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[810] That also is very exciting, right?

[811] Yeah, and not only that, but scale -wise, it's the equivalent of teeing off in L .A. and hitting a hole in one in New York.

[812] As far as, like, the scale, the distance to the target you have to hit.

[813] Right, and how tiny the target is.

[814] And how tiny the target is.

[815] And so it's like orbital mechanics are difficult.

[816] That's true.

[817] But to your point, because there's no atmosphere, it's not that hard.

[818] Like, if you're planning the trajectory of a missile to hit an opponent, you've got gravity, curvature of Earth.

[819] You've got drag, wind, wind, all sorts of stuff.

[820] Atmospheric pressure.

[821] Lots of stuff.

[822] Yeah, a lot of variables.

[823] Spacecraft, not that hard.

[824] I think they have five course corrections as they go.

[825] But a lot of times, you know, they don't even use the last three because they're like, dude, we know where Mars is going to be.

[826] We know where we're going to be.

[827] We're right on target.

[828] Although the math is simple, it's still, to me, among the most astounding things we've ever.

[829] It's outside of this planet.

[830] It's so cool, dude.

[831] It is.

[832] Also to look in the night sky.

[833] just as a human to look at that one planet that's a little red, and to be like, as humans, we've put something on that red dot in the sky.

[834] And then for me personally, you'd be like, and I've touched and designed and tested a thing that's on that dot.

[835] I sometimes get really disheartened with how underwhelmed we are by it.

[836] Yeah.

[837] I get it, right?

[838] Like, I remember I sold a script in 2004 to Paramount.

[839] The premise of it was, okay, so the Anasari XPRIs 18 years ago, was they're going to give millions of dollars.

[840] as anyone who could leave our atmosphere.

[841] So then the premise of our script was, okay, what if the next task was you had to orbit Earth once then come back down if that was the challenge, and then you get all these Detroit mechanics that have been displaced.

[842] It's like a bad news bears.

[843] So I got to do one meeting at JPL Walls right on the script, which was really, really fun.

[844] The studio, rightly, so just kind of looking at, what is the appetite for space travel for people?

[845] And it's just really low.

[846] It's like we went to the moon so long ago, 60 years ago, and people aren't just kind of underwhelmed by it.

[847] To your point, to look up at Mars where humans have been looking at for 150 ,000 years and to have put something there, it beats the fuck out of the iPhone, to me. Yeah, it's pretty bonkers.

[848] What's also cool, too, is that stuff on Earth, because of, like, oxidation and stuff.

[849] Let's say something happened, and tomorrow everyone's gone, and this planet is here.

[850] It's something like 50 ,000 years, and there's no trace that humans were ever here.

[851] Buildings crumble, you'd have to dig, that would be fossilized stuff.

[852] By the way, with all the humans that have ever lived, there'd be like eight fossils left behind.

[853] Fossils are very rare.

[854] There's basically will be no trace of humans after some time.

[855] But those rovers we put on Mars, because it's a totally different environment and things don't oxidize, they'll be there for millions of years.

[856] So at some point when the aliens come by, they're going to be like, what the hell is this?

[857] Like, where did this come from?

[858] And even if they somehow put it together, then they'll get to Earth and there'll be no real record.

[859] So it's like, where did this come from?

[860] Isn't that fascinating?

[861] That's really tasty.

[862] Back to the asteroid thing.

[863] Just a quick question.

[864] So when your little rovers on the asteroid and it wants to put its harpoon in, that asteroids exerting some gravitational pull on it.

[865] Right?

[866] Because it's a mass. There's a microgravity is what we call it.

[867] Okay.

[868] And how is that calculated?

[869] They're trying to get a diameter of it and they're guessing at what it's made of.

[870] Because that's got to be in the equation.

[871] I think they know with how it interacts as it comes through our solar system and how much it gets pulled by Jupiter.

[872] other.

[873] The math is pretty simple.

[874] You just solve for mass. And what's cool about that is you know how big it is you have volume, then you could solve for density.

[875] So you know kind of, is it real rocky or is it real not rocky?

[876] The question, though, is how evenly distributed that is.

[877] You kind of have really hard chunks, but the core could be really soft.

[878] So that's why you have to do the harpoon things.

[879] You're not exactly sure, right?

[880] But you have a pretty good sense before even landing on it, mass, all those things.

[881] Okay, this will probably get cut out because this is way too esoteric.

[882] But ever since it's been explained to me, I just want to know, is this something widely known?

[883] How embraced is this?

[884] Is there a consensus about this?

[885] So I had a physicist on, and I of course grew up learning that anything with mass exerts a force and the other thing with mass and the thing with greater mass will exert more force, hence are orbiting the sun, the moon orbiting us.

[886] He said that currently the thought isn't that that's what's causing the orbit, is that the sun itself is dishing time and space in a way that when the object comes to it, it just gets sucked into the dish.

[887] There's not an actual force between the objects.

[888] It's the dent it's making in the space time.

[889] Yeah, I mean, and that's how Einstein explained it.

[890] Like, Einstein was the first to put this forward, and it's a great way to visualize it, by the way, because if you have a heavy thing on, like, Lycra on a trampoline and you put a marble, you see it follow this exactly.

[891] The math is the exact same.

[892] It's a perfect analogy, but I think it's true that you're warping space time.

[893] It's just weird to think that we're in a lake and not in air.

[894] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[895] In that sense, like, I think of space as being a vacuum and there's no resistance to anything.

[896] Yeah, yeah.

[897] Yeah, clearly, there's something there because that's something that's being warped.

[898] Are you all the way to the peak of the mountain if you were to talk to a physicist?

[899] No. If that's, like, what he does and he has, like, three PhDs in it, he's going to know way, way more.

[900] Not that you would ever know the mechanisms that create it.

[901] Like, you're not going to know the math, you're not going to know the theories, but the concepts are all of them for you obtainable?

[902] Yeah, I mean, if I dig into it, and sometimes I'll forget the specifics and I'll have to go back, but I love that stuff.

[903] I realized in high school physics that you could use math and equations to explain the world around you.

[904] And to me, that was so powerful.

[905] It doesn't matter where you live, what language you speak, what culture you grew up in.

[906] If you drop a rock from a roof, we would all come up with the same answer on how many seconds it would take to the ground.

[907] And not only that, we can then make predictions whereas if you drop it from a different roof and it's a little bit different sized rock how long it's like a crystal ball but a crystal ball that actually works and then you could use that to predict the future and put freaking rovers on Mars like that's so powerful to me yes it is to me as well but I am curious there is a personality type that underpins that I do think for some people when they find out wow we could actually figure everything out and predict everything that's an immediately appealing scenario to some types of people.

[908] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[909] Other people, my wife say, doesn't really care.

[910] Doesn't need to know what's coming.

[911] And I put no value judgment on that.

[912] I know for me personally, I had great interest in first figuring out what is making humans act the way they act.

[913] Some of these humans are violent.

[914] Some of our alcoholics.

[915] Some are crashing cars.

[916] For me, the chaos, I think, made it very intriguing to me to maybe understand what their motivations are and to hopefully get good at predicting what, humans are going to do.

[917] Right.

[918] And then there's the world at large that may be is scary.

[919] And I'm just curious as a child if you remember which part of that was so appealing.

[920] I've always been really big on justice, maybe sometimes to a fault.

[921] Maybe hence the glitter bomb.

[922] The show I did with Jimmy is called Revenge Aneers and Discovery where we basically like prank people who violate social norms.

[923] And so I hated in English class where I could write an essay and it was so subjective at so what grade I was given versus physics or biology or calculus or there's only one right answer.

[924] It's it or it's not.

[925] And the justice in that scratches a niche for me. Yes.

[926] So subjectivity is uncomfortable.

[927] Yeah.

[928] But it's like specifically the part that feels unfair.

[929] And I don't understand the rules and therefore how could I predict the future in this situation?

[930] You know what I mean?

[931] Like it's clear to know how to get an A on a test in physics that it is in English.

[932] Yeah.

[933] Would we extend that even to the Olympics?

[934] I was asking myself why I wasn't as interested in gymnastics as I am in sprinting.

[935] And I was like, am I a misogynist?

[936] Because I love the Olympics.

[937] And I think ultimately it was like, I don't like that five human beings decide if that gave them a boner or not.

[938] A hundred percent.

[939] Ice skating, diving, all those things.

[940] Even snowboarding pisses me off even.

[941] It's like if you see one run, you know that a human can't not filter through the fact that, oh, this is Sean White's fourth time.

[942] Yeah.

[943] What bump does that give you?

[944] 100%.

[945] Or even like in baseball with calling strikes and balls and it's like, of course you should let a computer do that.

[946] You know what I mean?

[947] Like they have the technology now.

[948] Why wouldn't you take the human out of the equation and just get it right every time?

[949] Right.

[950] I don't like it.

[951] That's not for them.

[952] They don't like it.

[953] Okay.

[954] So I can't psychoanalyze you enough to wonder why there's comfort in the thought that we might be able to know.

[955] everything.

[956] I was raised in a really nurturing family.

[957] My mom's massive influence of my life.

[958] She really encouraged creativity and just really tried to raise us to be good humans.

[959] I fully recognize I was given a massive leg up.

[960] And I've always kind of had a pretty high happiness set point as well.

[961] And that's where it's just like I recognize in that sense, I 100 % just got lucky, right?

[962] Yeah.

[963] Maybe this is a fun thing.

[964] So ironically, you have had to embrace the subjective a lot to be successful because the areas that were off -putting to you in school are the ones that, like, Kristen lives in, right?

[965] Like singing, expression, dancing, plays, theater, story.

[966] How do we measure a great story?

[967] I mean, by that token, the Bible's the very best book ever written.

[968] I would push back.

[969] Just literally speaking, it's not the best.

[970] But if we came up with a metric, it might not even be right.

[971] Like views, views -wise, Bible's killing it.

[972] It's all time, yeah.

[973] You plus the other guy at times Mr. B's times.

[974] I heard you say that your squirrel videos, which are enormously popular, had an element that other squirrel videos didn't have.

[975] They had characters.

[976] Yeah.

[977] I think people think I'm a good engineer.

[978] I'm an okay engineer, truly.

[979] That's not faint humility.

[980] But it's like I'm a good storyteller, dad.

[981] Right.

[982] Like, I can get you in.

[983] I know how to hook you.

[984] Yes.

[985] And you're right.

[986] That's very soft touch.

[987] But it's a good combination to have.

[988] You have the hard science, and Glitterbom is a great example.

[989] I could tell you how to make a viral video.

[990] And there's a good answer for this.

[991] That's not a cop -out.

[992] And you have to have a visceral response.

[993] Let's call it emotion.

[994] Yeah, emotion.

[995] And it can be anger.

[996] It could be amazement.

[997] You could laugh.

[998] If you don't have that visceral response, that like shift in your heart, that emotional connection, you're not going to even remember the video, let alone share it.

[999] You know, for something to be remarkable, it has to be, like, able to be remarked about.

[1000] That's why it's like world's largest super soak or a world's largest jello pool.

[1001] By its very nature, I'm doing that thing.

[1002] It's the first time you've seen that.

[1003] Something's going to, what?

[1004] Well, you're getting a dopamine hit.

[1005] Yeah, you're getting a dopamine because of the novelty, right?

[1006] So I try and do things to create novelty for people seeing them.

[1007] And so the squirrel, as an example, I named the squirrels, and we gave them these backstories, right?

[1008] And that was enough.

[1009] Here's where the cynic in me got a little activated.

[1010] Yeah, yeah.

[1011] Because I looked at the four pictures of the squirrels and their names.

[1012] With the exception of what one's called, like, fat.

[1013] Oh, fat gus.

[1014] Yeah, yeah.

[1015] Fat gus, you got a shot at.

[1016] identifying and then Frank's a dark squirrel he's a black sure sure the other two come on how do you know that those are even two different squirrels no tagged them no comment I plead the fifth senator that's the only part I'm like I'm so and I'm so I'm so but you know I'm such a skeptic I was like I'm no no man I'm looking these pictures I'm not even sure that those are two different squirrels look I hate to break this to you but they also don't have actually a rivalry there's a little bit of of liberty there, I don't know.

[1017] Now, that would be fine with me, weirdly, because I'm a writer.

[1018] I'm like, well, we need story.

[1019] But yeah, I just think that so much of what has made yours successful is actually the much more murky soup of that.

[1020] How are you R &D that?

[1021] So you're recording forever, then you're editing.

[1022] I know that you've said you'll spend hours and hours and hours trying to get something that you're making five points about down to four and a half point.

[1023] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1024] So there's, that approach to it.

[1025] But then at what point are you getting to observe other people?

[1026] Is that part of the process?

[1027] No, it's just a gut thing.

[1028] I do on average a video a month.

[1029] Usually it's a little bit less.

[1030] But I'm working on these videos for like a year.

[1031] Currently, I have nine videos I'm working on.

[1032] Simultaneously.

[1033] Simultaneously, different stages.

[1034] And you release one a month still?

[1035] Maybe eight a year.

[1036] But because of that, my average use for video is like 30 million views of video, which is really high on YouTube.

[1037] Yes.

[1038] So I just pack it all in.

[1039] I'm much more quality over quantum.

[1040] That's kind of how I approach it.

[1041] Even with eight videos a year, you just know, some do better than others.

[1042] Then you're like, ah, that's probably why.

[1043] And you evolve and adapt, but there's a danger in getting too caught up in the feedback loop of, let's test this with a market audience.

[1044] Creativity is a precious little flame.

[1045] And as soon as you just bring so much analytics into it, it's a committee thing, suddenly it lacks the soul.

[1046] So I agree, the only thing I can compare it to, and I've been through this process several times, is testing a movie.

[1047] You've got your edit.

[1048] they recruit an audience.

[1049] What I find to be completely useless is the focus group afterwards.

[1050] The cards are largely useless.

[1051] They'll have them fill out a card.

[1052] I see.

[1053] Did you like this part?

[1054] What did you hate the antagonist?

[1055] What is invaluable to me is if you sit in a movie theater with 200 people watching this thing that you've made, and these scenes that maybe you were certain are brilliant, you'll just experience real time.

[1056] On a visceral mirror nirani, whatever happens, you're like, oh, everyone in this.

[1057] whole theater right now is bored and checked out.

[1058] Whoa.

[1059] You can't not feel it.

[1060] That part to me is handleable because you're sitting there in some anonymity.

[1061] It's more when these people who've made an industry out of it tell you, well, here's what you need to do.

[1062] Like, we figured it out in this focus group.

[1063] And then once you ask people questions, they just start improvving.

[1064] Like, they don't really know.

[1065] Yeah, exactly.

[1066] You know, they're not savvy enough in film to tell you what part is broken.

[1067] And now you're leaning into this and it's changing the direction of the film.

[1068] People go reshoot entire endings of movies.

[1069] There's also this great.

[1070] I think Brne Brown calls it Halo Effect, right?

[1071] Where it's like one leader emerges.

[1072] Right?

[1073] That would be you or I in this thing.

[1074] And we would say something articulate enough that it would be convincing.

[1075] Now everyone thinks that.

[1076] That would drive me crazy.

[1077] I mean, that's one of the beauties of being on YouTube.

[1078] It's like for a long time people are trying to give me to make a TV show.

[1079] Okay, where like way few people will see it.

[1080] I will make way less money and I won't have full creative control.

[1081] It's like, yeah, where do I sign?

[1082] That sounds amazing.

[1083] That's one of my questions for you.

[1084] We're very excited about Revenge and Ears.

[1085] But my first thought was, why on earth go to TV?

[1086] There's one show on conventional television that will get more views than one of your videos.

[1087] And that's only the Super Bowl.

[1088] Why do it?

[1089] You know, I did it with Jimmy.

[1090] After being on a show four or five times, he kind of was like, dude, I think you're a star.

[1091] I feel like he's seen in me my potential way more than I've seen it myself, I think, in some sense.

[1092] And so he was like, let's do a TV show together.

[1093] And then that's where I'd be like, Jimmy.

[1094] It just doesn't make sense, man. And I had to educate him on kind of how this new world works.

[1095] And eventually he's like, yeah, but there are other things that come with it.

[1096] Going to an average restaurant and nobody knows who PewDie Pie is over 40.

[1097] But everyone under knows exactly who Petey.

[1098] At one point, he was the biggest YouTuber now.

[1099] It's like probably Mr. Beast.

[1100] There's other things that come from TV that can benefit you because the industry hasn't fully shifted to this digital first platform yet.

[1101] Well, I would argue is all it can give you is cachet.

[1102] What I found, and this is one of my objectives of it, was just to learn how people have done it.

[1103] I want to take the best parts of how industry does something, steal the juicy bits, get rid of all the crap that's just red tape and stuff that comes with it.

[1104] And that was really beneficial.

[1105] I've hired three people from the TV show.

[1106] I've changed the way I do certain things.

[1107] Oh.

[1108] That was super, super helpful for me. Because no one taught me how to do any of this.

[1109] I just kind of learned it on my own for a decade, right?

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] So it's totally been a step function for me. I like just doing my own thing and being fully in control and telling the story exactly how I want to tell.

[1112] And they were great, by the way.

[1113] Discovery's amazing to work with.

[1114] It's just there's so many people, so many malice to feed.

[1115] It takes so many people to make a TV show.

[1116] And having never experienced that and having spoiled by making my own creation that tons of people could see that there's not a ton of mouths to feed, it's very jarring.

[1117] To me, all it still holds is this strata.

[1118] There's YouTubers.

[1119] Yeah, that's right?

[1120] And that has some kind of pejorative connotation if you're in legit show business.

[1121] And it's really interesting.

[1122] I've evolved on this too.

[1123] I remember thinking like influencers.

[1124] I didn't like that word.

[1125] But then I thought, oh my God, if I could have been just making sketches as a kid, that's what I would have done.

[1126] I just wanted to do sketch comedy.

[1127] I just had to go to this place, the Girlings, because it's the only place I could do it.

[1128] So, A, it's democratizing.

[1129] Why am I against that?

[1130] That's cool.

[1131] It's still just straight up expression.

[1132] What are we heralding?

[1133] expression or the route to which you are able to express.

[1134] I've changed my tune on the whole thing.

[1135] And I recognize the incredible accomplishment and the esteem that should be associated with the people that break out of this impossibly cluttered space.

[1136] There's something very special there, but this conventional road wasn't traveled and somehow that has less cachet.

[1137] Yeah, I think certainly cachet is a big part of it.

[1138] And that was like what Jimmy would say.

[1139] So I'll 100 % give you that point.

[1140] But there's so much inertia with this.

[1141] industry in the way it's been done.

[1142] It's really hard to change that ship.

[1143] There's so much inertia.

[1144] But like your daughters, how do they feel about me versus like Tom Hanks, who's like the most beloved actor?

[1145] They would step over his burning body to come watch you fill a fucking swimming pool with elephant paste.

[1146] And that's the thing.

[1147] I understand that's the way it is.

[1148] But if you want to skate to where the puck will be, like anyone under 30 years old does not care.

[1149] Really even who Tom cruises, right?

[1150] But if they meet their favorite YouTuber, I mean, you've probably experienced it a little bit, but it's like, kids will cry coming up.

[1151] They're so overwhelmed because you're so big in their eyes.

[1152] I think in a way that we didn't really even have when we were growing up, because it feels so much more connected and personal.

[1153] They feel like they really know us, you know?

[1154] You made this point in an article I was reading about you, but there's more interaction in the way they're experiencing it.

[1155] Simply by the fact that it's in their hand, they watch it whenever they want.

[1156] If you and I wanted to geek out about Bert Reynolds, you know, they showed smoking the band once a year.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] We didn't have much saying.

[1159] We had to get up Saturday morning to watch freaking cartoons.

[1160] That's right.

[1161] Like, what's up with that?

[1162] Kids these days.

[1163] I'd be late for school because Hall of Justice was on.

[1164] The superhero one I liked was called.

[1165] There's an old saying in show business, which is often when someone sees Tom Cruise at a restaurant, they won't approach Tom Cruise.

[1166] Right.

[1167] But if they see Scott Bayo at a restaurant, they'll approach him.

[1168] The only difference is the same number of humans might know the person.

[1169] But one, they went to an outside of their house.

[1170] thing saw them on a 35 foot screen they're in a different realm when you're in someone's living room and they're in their underwear eating cereal while they consume you they have an innately different relationship with you it's closer i never heard that i mean i think you hear that more now i didn't know that there was an analog to that previously yes i think movie stars got stared at and tv stars got approached interesting at least that's the old way it was well i think you'd even take that then one degree further.

[1171] And if you are, you know, someone who is primarily online, there's definitely a feeling of camaraderie or just intimacy.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] I'm not a character.

[1174] Like the things I geek out on camera is like, in real life, you've heard me like, I love that stuff, right?

[1175] Yeah, and there's no gloss to it.

[1176] There's no gloss.

[1177] 30 % of my shots are shot on an iPhone, and it's kind of intentional.

[1178] A fully polished TV show with all the transitions and the cool music, those always flop on YouTube because it lacks the authenticity.

[1179] And authenticity is like the big currency.

[1180] I'd argue it also lacks stakes.

[1181] So like what has always been impossible to do, people have tried it.

[1182] You go to a comedy improv show, right?

[1183] And you see five, six individuals make this impossibly elaborate story right in front of you with character and everything.

[1184] And it's an experience not to be missed.

[1185] And people go, oh, let's put this on TV.

[1186] It'll be easy to produce.

[1187] As soon as someone's watching it on their TV, they have too much history.

[1188] knowing that TV's edited, that it can be fudged, that there's different shots.

[1189] So all the stakes have disappeared.

[1190] What makes an improv show great, and you can't account for it, is they're liable to fuck up in front of you because there's no script.

[1191] There's a big degree of failure on the table.

[1192] But once it makes it to your television set, there can't be any failure.

[1193] I would argue that's what's happening with yours as well by shooting it on an iPhone.

[1194] It's like, well, if this shot's uninterrupted and it's on iPhone, my hunches this really happened.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] That's really interesting.

[1197] Yeah, because I love improv.

[1198] Whose line is it anyways aside?

[1199] It's like, it's never really worked on TV, right?

[1200] Well, Whose Line Is It Anyway did work.

[1201] I mean, it ran for years.

[1202] But what I would argue there is that one was more real quick one -liners.

[1203] It wasn't long -form improv.

[1204] That's true.

[1205] Long -form improv can be transcendent.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] You see these five people without communicating, tie this whole story together beautifully.

[1208] On the same page, it's like, whoa, how did that happen?

[1209] Yeah, like Ben Schwartz, I think, did it with Middle Ditch and, Schwartz.

[1210] Those two are incredible.

[1211] Incredible.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] But again, watching that show on TV is nothing like going.

[1214] I went to it in real life.

[1215] I saw it on Netflix and you're a billion percent right.

[1216] They're not even comparable.

[1217] Yeah, yeah.

[1218] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[1219] If you dare.

[1220] Okay, so back to the cachet thing.

[1221] You're a human.

[1222] There's some part of it that has to appeal to you.

[1223] It's appealed to me that you'd go on Kimmel and you don't have to make a joke about the fact that all the kids know you and the adults don't.

[1224] Like there's some humanness, right, that desires to be recognized by the way, for things you're actually already doing.

[1225] Yeah, there's a legitimacy that comes with it for sure.

[1226] Having said that, I mean, we'll see what it lands, but would I do it again?

[1227] I don't know.

[1228] My North Star is getting, especially the kids stoked about science and education engineering.

[1229] To the degree that, yeah, of course, I want to feel legitimate.

[1230] I don't want people to brush me off.

[1231] So yes, there's probably a vanity thing there.

[1232] Yeah.

[1233] But if I did this, and it did nothing to further that goal.

[1234] And it was like clearly that opportunity cost of me not doing two videos because I did that show.

[1235] And I realized very clearly I could reach more kids and inspire them by just doing the YouTube thing.

[1236] Like, super easy decision for me. Yeah.

[1237] I want to read something that you said that I think is incredible.

[1238] You did a little experiment with the people that subscribed to your YouTube channel.

[1239] You have 22 million subscribers, but you took 50 ,000 people and you divided them into two groups.

[1240] Oh, yeah.

[1241] Why don't you lay that out?

[1242] I told them I wanted to see if everyone could learn to code, right?

[1243] So we gave them this coding puzzle where you just would put code blocks in and like the car goes right, the car goes left.

[1244] What they didn't know is half the people got one version of the test where we took away five points of your 200 points.

[1245] By the way, these are like completely meaningless internet points.

[1246] No one will ever see these.

[1247] The other half of the group, we didn't take anyway.

[1248] If you failed, it just said, hey, you didn't do it.

[1249] Why don't you try again?

[1250] Whereas the other one said, hey, you didn't do it.

[1251] you got minus five points, why don't you try again?

[1252] Right.

[1253] Only difference is we took out five points when you failed on one versus the other.

[1254] And I think it was like 16 % difference of those who solved it versus didn't was if we didn't take away those points and you didn't frame failure in a negative light.

[1255] Yes.

[1256] That was the only difference.

[1257] And that's super statistically significant and it turns out the trick is because you tried two and a half times longer.

[1258] So on average, those who got points taken away, tried five times, those who didn't have points taken away, tried it 12 times yeah okay so you stumbled upon something that you called the super mario effect you said we don't let losing at video games like super mario discourage us from playing again rather we take the loss as a way of learning so we get closer to completing the level you get a bad grade on a test you don't get the promotion you wanted and we immediately tell ourselves we're not good enough we're losers we internalize it but you don't do that for a video game so don't do that for your life, get back on your feet.

[1259] I think this is a very interesting observation that I would have never come to.

[1260] People do relentlessly try video games.

[1261] They try it like they would never try any other task.

[1262] Anything.

[1263] And by the way, they're like stoked about it.

[1264] There's happy to do it.

[1265] No one ever picks up a controller for the first time, falls in the pit is like, I'm so embarrassed.

[1266] I can't believe I did that.

[1267] I never want to try that again.

[1268] I'm not good at these.

[1269] I'm not good at these.

[1270] I hate this.

[1271] I'm so, you're immediately like, ah, okay, next time I'm going to come a little bit more speed.

[1272] I'm going to jump a little earlier.

[1273] It's like gamify your life and the challenges ahead of you and internalize it as a game, just like you do a video game.

[1274] We have real data to show that you can learn more and be more successful if you just frame the learning and failure process that way.

[1275] As if you're playing Super Mario.

[1276] Yeah, and that's what the test was for those two people.

[1277] If you don't consider it failure as minus points off versus like, oh, that's one more way I learned not to do the thing.

[1278] This is truly how I approached all of my videos.

[1279] My next video is like an egg drop from space.

[1280] It was my most expensive.

[1281] We took an egg up to space.

[1282] What craft?

[1283] Like on a rocket.

[1284] On a weather balloon without a rocket, that it would release it and under gravity would come down.

[1285] Like a NASA -type separation to land the egg.

[1286] It's like the high school physics egg drop competition except from space, as one does.

[1287] Yeah.

[1288] But like I can honestly say in that whole thing, we had so many setbacks.

[1289] But at no point was I like, I'm a failure.

[1290] I can't do this.

[1291] I cried at one point.

[1292] It stung so bad.

[1293] In the same way, if you lose the Super Bowl, you cry and you immediately are like, I'm going to train as hard as I can't in the off season.

[1294] I'm coming back.

[1295] As opposed to I suck at football.

[1296] I'm not good at this.

[1297] I never want to come back, right?

[1298] So if you just frame it in a way that it's like, let it hurt, let it sting, but let it be just like that one jump on level 8 -1 on Super Mario.

[1299] We have to land on that little pedestal.

[1300] Dang it, I'm coming back.

[1301] I'm going to do this again.

[1302] And I learned something recently, because someone challenged me on this concept and said, yeah, but there's no real penalty for failing in a video game.

[1303] You didn't try something to be your job and you failed at that job.

[1304] And it's hard to really bounce back from that.

[1305] But here's what I'll say.

[1306] If you can set up your challenges in a way, and this is what I learned that I do personally, and I didn't realize this until I had this conversation, where the failure is low stakes.

[1307] So, for example, I didn't quit my job at Apple working in industry until I had like 10 million subscribers on YouTube.

[1308] Right.

[1309] I was making way more on YouTube for many years.

[1310] I didn't realize why in the time, but I think a big part was by keeping the YouTube thing as like a hobby, if I failed, it's just my hobby who cares?

[1311] So whatever you can do with your challenges to frame it in a way that failure is just a learning thing, just like a video game, and at the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal.

[1312] I think that helps.

[1313] I would imagine the time you cried in the egg dropping thing, it had to be at the latter stages of it.

[1314] Because I imagine almost getting it as the most painful.

[1315] Yeah, and it was like a stupid engineering air that I should have caught and I just blew 50 grand on another test.

[1316] And this is like our fourth time doing that.

[1317] It was sad.

[1318] I'm just like, but it's like, all right, you know what?

[1319] We're coming back again.

[1320] I'm going to do a butt ton of tests.

[1321] I'm going to just engineer the crud out of this and have redundancy in the system and we went back the final time.

[1322] It worked and there's no better feeling.

[1323] A lot of times we expect our challenges to be the linear slope to the flag that says you're finished.

[1324] But in real life, there's so many up and downs, right?

[1325] Yeah.

[1326] I feel like that's a feature, not a bug of life.

[1327] Because if there was a book or a video game or a movie that was just so simple and plain and there weren't challenges to have that final triumph, it's boring.

[1328] Life should have those setbacks and then the eventual triumph and that feeling of nailing it and landing it.

[1329] Well, me personally, if I didn't live in Hollywood and I wasn't 47, the 23 -year -old me would have heard how often people talk about story and just been nauseated by it.

[1330] But it is shockingly true how much it's governing our entire existence on planet Earth.

[1331] I think if you know evolutionarily why we have story, which was to pass on our shared knowledge.

[1332] Before we could write.

[1333] Like, it's so baked into us 100 % to respond to story, to communicate in story.

[1334] So I think A, understanding that is helpful.

[1335] Agreed.

[1336] That it's not just a catchphrase, like, I'm creating space for you.

[1337] There's all these catchphrases that would drive me nuts.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] But story, you must say to yourself, if you tried the egg thing and it worked the first time, you've virtually nothing to ever report to somebody.

[1340] I don't really give a fuck if you dropped one from space.

[1341] What I care about is the 20 ways that you got humiliated along the way.

[1342] I trade in stories.

[1343] That's why people like me. I'm a good storyteller.

[1344] So it's like, when something terrible is happening to me, you can't imagine how much it's changed my life.

[1345] I start getting excited.

[1346] Like something's going horrendously wrong.

[1347] I'm getting more and more uncomfortable, and I literally have the thought, well, this is going to sound great at a dinner party.

[1348] Right now I'm getting a real good, because I'm getting my ass handed to me right now, and those make the greatest stories.

[1349] Okay, so Revenge and Eres on Discovery Channel, that's incredible.

[1350] But you also have a new kit for kids called CrunchBox that my children are already using and they're on our kitchen table right now.

[1351] Obviously, it seems quite logical for you to do something like that.

[1352] this, but what made you get into this space?

[1353] Parents would come up and be like, my kid loves your videos, they want to be an engineer just like you.

[1354] What's the first step?

[1355] I don't really know what the first step is.

[1356] What do I say to that?

[1357] Because you can watch the videos, but at some point, that's just passively learning.

[1358] So then the thought was, well, what if I could make a really cool mini -disc launcher?

[1359] Going back to the visceral thing where you could not just passively watch a video, but physically touch something and put it together.

[1360] So the mini -diss launcher is you.

[1361] I've been assaulted by it I was in bed like two weeks ago in the morning journaling and all of a sudden Lincoln just came in and she's like, put your journal down and started launching this at me and I'm like, what the hell?

[1362] You're welcome.

[1363] Yeah, that's the build box from Crunch Labs.

[1364] Oh, I'm sorry, I said the name wrong.

[1365] It's Crunch Labs.

[1366] Yeah, Crunch Labs is like the location and the company and then the build box is the build box.

[1367] Okay, close enough.

[1368] We taught them about how Frisbee's work and how they fly and how freaking cool they are, right?

[1369] and flywheels and stuff.

[1370] Crunch Labs is like this Willy Wonka factory for engineering.

[1371] Each box has a platinum ticket in it once a month.

[1372] If you get that, you get to come out, hang out with me and my team and build together.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] Oh, wow.

[1375] So it's just like this great ecosystem of kids learning to think like an engineer.

[1376] That's the promise on the side of the box.

[1377] Maybe you'll grow up to be a firefighter or a veterinarian.

[1378] Maybe like, oh, my kid doesn't want to necessarily be an engineer.

[1379] But thinking like an engineer means you think critically.

[1380] You can break a problem down to steps.

[1381] You're not afraid of failure.

[1382] It's part of the process.

[1383] which then makes you a better piano practiser and soccer player because you're like, I fell into the pit in Super Mario, but this is what engineers do.

[1384] We test, we prototype, we fail, we fix.

[1385] So it's just like this really useful mind frame.

[1386] We had a lot of boxes that we sold out in like five days.

[1387] They're getting a bunch more in for the holidays, but seeing a lot of people post girls, when I was at Apple and at NASA, a lot of people look just like me. And I spoke in Dubai once, and it was fascinating because it is for like a science fair winners and like 70 % were women with the burkas covering their heads this is for science and I asked their minister of education I was like I'm gonna be honest I'm a little surprised to see this and his comment was that we are a small country we have 20 million people or whatever we can't afford to just say half of these brains can't help solve our big problems yeah and I was like that is pretty fascinating and forward thinking and so I feel like it's the same thing here we're in like in all brains on deck situation.

[1388] Whereas historically, I think with culture we've done, like that half the brains are supposed to be playing with Barbies and not being engineers.

[1389] Also underrepresented communities as well.

[1390] I'm really excited to tackle that part of this challenge because the boxes are like a sugar cube.

[1391] I'm going to sneak the vegetables in.

[1392] You're going to be having so much fun you won't realize it.

[1393] Yes.

[1394] And you're going to be learning.

[1395] That's what I love to do.

[1396] That's what I'm really trying to accomplish with the boxes and I think we are.

[1397] Yeah.

[1398] That's incredible.

[1399] That's the thing you also have to put into the Super Mario framing is like, it's fun.

[1400] If the game wasn't fun, it wasn't colorful and had good music, you wouldn't fail over and over.

[1401] That's exactly right.

[1402] Stay in that world.

[1403] 100%.

[1404] Okay.

[1405] Last thing I want to ask you about, you're one of few people I can have this conversation with, and I trust that we feel the same way, experientially.

[1406] You decided to do that TV show.

[1407] So we're both in this situation where we have our own thing.

[1408] It's incredible.

[1409] I've never, ever in my life even dared fantasize.

[1410] about what this podcast is.

[1411] It's just the exact thing I want to do and I have no bosses and no test screenings and I just believe that whatever the thing is is the right thing.

[1412] It has opened the curtains in a way that I couldn't have ever imagined I would be in this place, which is I get to really evaluate why I would do things.

[1413] It's this great gift.

[1414] And then on the backside of the gift for me is all this really new exploration of why I do anything I do, because I have the freedom to do it.

[1415] And it's a weird place to be in.

[1416] And I don't find that there's so many people around me to ask for guidance in it.

[1417] Or I just kind of am like, wow, why do I do the things I do?

[1418] For me, I haven't been acting, right?

[1419] That's a weird thing for me to stop doing because that's my apple.

[1420] Like, well, if I go away long enough, they're not going to want to see me on TV when I decide I need to go back.

[1421] And then just doing all this analysis of what's the upside, what's the downside?

[1422] The notion that you might turn something down that so many people would die to have comes with this weird for me a guilt.

[1423] Same.

[1424] Am I ungrateful?

[1425] Am I entitled?

[1426] Am I all these things?

[1427] Or am I just going to be making decisions for me and my kids?

[1428] And I really am in the spot to do that.

[1429] So why would I blow that and not think this through?

[1430] Can you see ways that's infecting all areas of your life?

[1431] In the aspect of now that you've achieved the thing and you have exactly what you want, now you have to think, well, now what?

[1432] Or what is it?

[1433] On the other side of ultimate freedom is just an interesting space.

[1434] My whole life, I grew up like, well, I got to get a job, I got to get a house, I got to have enough to retire.

[1435] Once that whole story's gone, it's removed from your life, you start wondering, well, why do I do anything?

[1436] I don't know.

[1437] For me, it's like there's a whole philosophical world I've entered that I'm super grateful for, but I feel like I need to do it, correctly.

[1438] Yeah, for me, for a lot of times, I felt a lot of financial pressure to provide for a family.

[1439] Most of the decisions I did was like, how will this financially provide?

[1440] And then you get to a point where, I mean, I just don't have a lot of needs.

[1441] So therefore, I have way more money than I need at this point.

[1442] And it's like, wait, but why am I still working?

[1443] Because originally it was because you have to do it for money.

[1444] And now it's like, well, I can't just sit on a farm in Montana and read a book that would drive me crazy.

[1445] Like, I need an outlet for these creativity.

[1446] So I have moved the goal post on now what am I trying to do.

[1447] There can be a moment where it's almost a letdown where like that goal you were achieving, you achieved it.

[1448] So it's like, where's the elation I was expecting to experience.

[1449] And which kind of reminds me a little bit.

[1450] And you could probably speak to this more than I because you're so open with your past.

[1451] When people who are really famous have all the money, have all the adoration, kill themselves.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] It's like, that's exactly when you kill yourself.

[1454] Because you were trying to solve it with all these things.

[1455] And once you got them all and you're still unhappy, you're like, there's nothing.

[1456] left.

[1457] Yes.

[1458] I think if perfectly navigated, what you end up doing is circling all the way back to who you originally were.

[1459] So for you, you were interested in science and mechanics and you did it for a period of your life without any thought of the result.

[1460] That's right.

[1461] And then it's all result related.

[1462] And then on the backside of accomplishing it all, now why am I doing it?

[1463] And if you're still doing it, you're doing it because I just do it because I love it.

[1464] And that's a great space to be.

[1465] And to give that same thing to other kids.

[1466] I remember how magical it was for me to explore that when I was younger.

[1467] And if I can be the catalyst for giving another kid that sense of wonder and the empowerment where if something doesn't exist, if you're a freaking engineer, you just will it into freaking existence.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] That's a superpower, right?

[1470] It's incredible.

[1471] And to like help inspire kids to know that you could do that.

[1472] You could make and build a thing.

[1473] That's a gift that I want to give because I got that somehow.

[1474] I try to point that out to my kids all the time.

[1475] If we're somewhere and there's a ski hill, I'll say, do you realize the monkeys, humans, us human monkeys, we're staring at that mountain and we're like, we must figure out a way to glide down the side of that.

[1476] But you have to understand at some point the monkeys were looking at it and they just were not content with not being able to slide down it in a way that was amusing to them.

[1477] It's all around us.

[1478] The completely stupid things we figured out how to do.

[1479] I find it so charming about us.

[1480] But back to the philosophical question, here's the thing that I think I'm too conscious of, maybe this is my nightmare, is that I try to fast forward till I'm 85, I'm looking back and I go, wow, I had the option at this moment to literally do any single thing.

[1481] There's a weird pressure to that for me. Do you feel the weight of that at all?

[1482] Not that anyone's going to feel bad for us.

[1483] Yeah.

[1484] I think so often in my life, it was like, I don't even need to worry about what I'm going to think when I'm 80 looking back because I was just doing what I had to do that was in front of me. But to not, it just opens up this very bizarre Pandora's box of like what should you be doing?

[1485] No, I think that's true.

[1486] I mean, my philosophy on that, though, I tend to be kind of empathetic to my future self in that sense.

[1487] I hate when people like in 30 years from now, what do you want to be?

[1488] Nobody knows.

[1489] And the people who said they had to figure out, they don't.

[1490] It's very nonlinear.

[1491] And so my philosophy is if you're crossing a river and there's stones on the river, all you can do is be on the stone you're on and like wiggle your toe on the next three.

[1492] You know, what's my best stone?

[1493] That one.

[1494] I'll jump on that one now.

[1495] Now it's my next best.

[1496] And you just kind of wiggle your way across the river.

[1497] And the key is just whatever phase you're on now, dominate it.

[1498] Give it your all because that will just open up more opportunities.

[1499] I try not to think too far into the future.

[1500] And I always feel like there is something in my immediate future that feels like it's definitely the right move.

[1501] Right now it's the box company and the YouTube thing, but it might be something different.

[1502] It will be something different in five years.

[1503] The chances of me picking the most ophthalmopath to maximize my dopamine by the time I'm 80.

[1504] There's a very narrow chance.

[1505] I actually pick the most optimal path, but it's like, yeah, whatever.

[1506] What happens when one of the cornerstones of the security disappear, though?

[1507] I imagine being married for so long, that's a cornerstone of that.

[1508] And when that gets taken away, you're not planning for that, I can't imagine.

[1509] Is that rattling to the whole ecosystem, the homeostasis?

[1510] Yeah, I'm very private about my private life, but I got married young.

[1511] What's young?

[1512] 23.

[1513] Oh, gosh.

[1514] And there's a ton of mutual respect, but like I separated for my wife two years ago.

[1515] I just live right around the corner, so our sun can go back and forth.

[1516] I'm just now dipping my toe back into the water of what it means to date.

[1517] It's weird.

[1518] You're absolutely right, but I stepped on a rock.

[1519] I came up against a thing.

[1520] I stepped into the river, but it's like the Super Mario effect.

[1521] All right, take some time, take a step back.

[1522] What can be learned from this?

[1523] How do we spin it?

[1524] It's interesting to have to rethink about all that.

[1525] 100%.

[1526] And it's very scary at first.

[1527] How do you even date?

[1528] Like, what is that?

[1529] But then at some point, you're like, well, there are some silver linings here.

[1530] just like anything.

[1531] I don't have it all figured out, that's for sure, but you just do the best you can do at any given moment.

[1532] I kind of have a naive optimism too.

[1533] That kind of works to my advantage sometimes where I don't realize what I'm really doing.

[1534] And if I did, I wouldn't have the opinion, but I'm just oblivious, you know?

[1535] Yeah.

[1536] Well, how about this?

[1537] You're entering the dating scene fortunate or unfortunately in a pretty ideal situation, right?

[1538] Yeah, but like that I'm learning also carries with pitfalls of things.

[1539] Sure.

[1540] Like you got to worry about if people have good intention?

[1541] Yeah, like do they like me or the thought of me, right?

[1542] And I'm Googledable and there's information there.

[1543] None of it's right.

[1544] You probably stay at nice hotels when you go on vacation.

[1545] This is something I'm going to get.

[1546] And this is like such first rule problem.

[1547] So I'm just taking it all very, very, very slowly.

[1548] Well, I really wrestled with this when my girlfriend, Rhee and I broke up, we had been together nine years and I was only famous for like the last year and a half we were together.

[1549] So there was a part of me that was like, well, I only want to be with someone who knew me before everything.

[1550] Right.

[1551] Because that person knows me. Like, they know me with nothing.

[1552] They just know the true me. And I had this huge fear that I would not be able to create something I really believed in because everyone would be meeting me post that.

[1553] That's right.

[1554] Well, you see that a lot where, like, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant.

[1555] Like, a lot of these guys marry their high school sweethearts.

[1556] I think because of that, right?

[1557] Yeah.

[1558] You want to trust that the person loved you when you didn't have shit.

[1559] But then I don't know.

[1560] Like, I met Kristen and that just went away.

[1561] I stopped thinking about that.

[1562] And I was like, oh, well, I. I am who I am, period.

[1563] Yeah, that's right.

[1564] And I think it's hard to separate some of those things.

[1565] Like a person who has made choices that makes them success, those could be attractive qualities.

[1566] Absolutely.

[1567] I'm attracted to people who are competent.

[1568] Yeah, yeah.

[1569] And have proof of competency.

[1570] Yeah.

[1571] So I don't know why I would be mad that a girl...

[1572] Exactly.

[1573] I'd say I'm pretty cautious and gun -shy and, of course, doing all this not publicly.

[1574] Yeah, you're cutely private.

[1575] Yeah.

[1576] So I've got that from you when I met you.

[1577] All right, very last thing.

[1578] you're very well read.

[1579] I think most of our conversations were about these historical biographies we both read.

[1580] How many of us are there, do you think?

[1581] I'm not regularly bumping in it, people that have read all the biographies.

[1582] I've read them all.

[1583] I've read them all.

[1584] I just tore through him and loved it.

[1585] Yeah, me too.

[1586] But you had...

[1587] And we both agree Jefferson, like, yeah.

[1588] I thought I would love him because he's kind of like a builder, tinker, you know?

[1589] Yeah.

[1590] I've yet to read a book that was favorable to him.

[1591] In fact, I have it in my back of my mind.

[1592] I've got to find one that celebrates him just to give him a day in court because McCullough hated him.

[1593] It seems that churned out and like all the people I read.

[1594] He was born rich and died in debt.

[1595] I hate that.

[1596] And then he got his 15 year old slave pregnant took her around Europe.

[1597] Even beyond all that stuff though, even like him versus Hamilton and the way they handled that, Hamilton was right about most of the things that they argued about.

[1598] In hindsight, the things he pushed for were so petty and incorrect.

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] Franklin, on the other hand, I love that, dude.

[1601] As someone who inspires to be an inventor and a creative thinker, even in like the political systems the way he thought of things as well as practical he was like a true renaissance man oh incredible have you watched the ken burns documentary around him it's great you got to watch it immediately but yeah the shit he had done in places he lived and accomplished by the he's 21 you'll just want to kill your yeah yeah like seven lives wise he was 15 years old but i brought all that up to say you hadn't read titan yeah no yeah that's right and you've since read i have since read it where would you rank titan for you i feel like because it was more contemporary he's about halfway between all the founding fathers and today.

[1602] So there's parts of that I did like, but parts that felt too similar to today in a sense, but then it felt more relatable in that sense as well.

[1603] I definitely agree with your premise that people get him wrong, and what they think of him is not what was real.

[1604] Yeah, and minimally, even if he was the monopolist and everything that people say he was, his contribution is so unknown.

[1605] I mean, it's staggering the impact he had on medicine.

[1606] And just thinking about it and using his money in ways to like benefit, side.

[1607] You see some of that with like the giving pledge.

[1608] That's more common today, but I feel like he was one of the first to really lean in that direction.

[1609] Yeah.

[1610] We created the very first medical research center that didn't even exist.

[1611] Yeah.

[1612] Researching medicine.

[1613] He didn't put his name on anything.

[1614] Yeah.

[1615] Chicago University is his.

[1616] No one knows that.

[1617] There's so many cool things.

[1618] Cured hookworm.

[1619] Single -handedly.

[1620] Rid the south of hookworm.

[1621] So if there's any one thing I want people to walk away with his, they read Titan.

[1622] If you read Titan and you get through that, then I want you to subscribe to Mark Rovers's YouTube channel.

[1623] And I want you to order for your children, the box from Crunch Labs.

[1624] And I also want everyone to check out Revengeenneers on Discovery channel when it debuts.

[1625] You're so great.

[1626] You're so great.

[1627] You're the favorite person I've met in quite a while.

[1628] So I feel so lucky to have been on that trip this summer.

[1629] I know.

[1630] Many more to come.

[1631] Likewise.

[1632] My goal to see you know is to arrive next summer with this thing still intact.

[1633] Oh my gosh.

[1634] You'll probably see him before then.

[1635] Okay.

[1636] Are you guys coming down?

[1637] Yeah, sometimes you come down.

[1638] When are you moving to L .A.?

[1639] It seems preposterous if you don't live here.

[1640] Never?

[1641] Never, no. I mean, I lived here when I was at JPL for a bunch of time.

[1642] I like the Bay Area.

[1643] There's a lot of nerds up there.

[1644] Those are my people.

[1645] Yeah, that's true.

[1646] Also, you're like the Brad Pitt of the Bay Area.

[1647] If you come down here, you're like, you're good -looking, but...

[1648] I'm nothing special.

[1649] Yeah, up there, man. You are fucking as hot as they come.

[1650] I love it.

[1651] Mark, great having you think.

[1652] Thanks for coming in, and we'll talk again because this is a budding friendship that will span decades.

[1653] I love it.

[1654] We'll advise each other on having too much good fortune.

[1655] Bye.

[1656] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1657] Yeah, I'm so tall.

[1658] Did she warn you of how tall I am?

[1659] No, she never said that.

[1660] But last night, I said to Kristen, I was trying to, like, say something that's absurd.

[1661] but right on the, you hope to get it on the verge where she thinks I'm serious.

[1662] Okay.

[1663] That's the goal.

[1664] So I said to Kristen last night, how tall do you think Emma is like 5 '7?

[1665] Why is that, but that she is?

[1666] I'm not 5 '7, I'm like 6 '4.

[1667] Oh, right.

[1668] Sorry.

[1669] To me, 5 '7's tall, so I got confused.

[1670] Right.

[1671] And Kristen's also 5 '1.

[1672] So I was like, she might believe that that's what I'm saying.

[1673] And Kristen goes, oh, no, I think she's 5 '10.

[1674] And I said, I think she's 6.

[1675] foot on.

[1676] I was just being funny.

[1677] Do you think she's 5 '7?

[1678] This is an interesting joke.

[1679] You see, that's why I told you what my agenda was at first.

[1680] I'm trying to, like, if I would have said, oh, my God, Emma's tall, do you think she's 5 '5?

[1681] That's clearly a joke.

[1682] Yeah.

[1683] I'm not being serious.

[1684] So the whole point is I want to try to get the perfect height where she thinks that that's my sincere guess.

[1685] But then that's what happened.

[1686] Exactly.

[1687] So that's a bullseye.

[1688] That was a score.

[1689] You liked the way that was.

[1690] Yes, absolutely.

[1691] You know what I'm saying?

[1692] She engaged like I was, that was my real guess.

[1693] And that's pretty much the goal.

[1694] Really exciting life.

[1695] This is after you met me. Last night.

[1696] When I was staying next to you in the kitchen, I was thinking, you and I are close to the same hype.

[1697] Yeah, yeah.

[1698] And so I'm going to act like I think that's 5 '7 to see if she believes that's what I think.

[1699] Uh -huh.

[1700] Wow.

[1701] I guess it is a boring game.

[1702] You know, you don't want to be obvious.

[1703] You want the person to believe you.

[1704] That's the point.

[1705] But why?

[1706] That's not like, doesn't make anyone laugh.

[1707] I do that with Natalie.

[1708] There we go.

[1709] Yeah, I'm not surprised you do that.

[1710] That doesn't also make it better than you also do that.

[1711] We have a very special guest for this fact check.

[1712] The most special.

[1713] Emma's here.

[1714] Emma.

[1715] Emma Lawrence SoulCycle.

[1716] As she is in my phone.

[1717] Oh, it still says SoulCycle?

[1718] That's great.

[1719] Haven't changed it to armchair yet.

[1720] No, I'll.

[1721] Never.

[1722] No, you're Emma Lawrence SoulCycle.

[1723] Great.

[1724] Mine still says babysitter in the original one I made from years ago.

[1725] I remember this all, this was a funny mix -up between you and I. Yeah.

[1726] emailed you.

[1727] Oh, yeah.

[1728] Let me call you what's your number and you give it to me. And then I type it in my phone and hit send.

[1729] And as I hit send, it's already a number I have.

[1730] Yes.

[1731] I'm a babysitter.

[1732] Yeah.

[1733] Had not put any of that together yet.

[1734] Exactly.

[1735] Okay.

[1736] So we're rewinding the tape.

[1737] Good, fully.

[1738] So Emma and I work together at SoulCycle Beverly Hills.

[1739] Hot establishment at the time.

[1740] We opened the joint.

[1741] Literally and figuratively, you were passing out and having anxiety panic attacks because it's so warm inside the cycling studio.

[1742] Too hot, in my opinion.

[1743] Right.

[1744] So we opened the studio.

[1745] We were involved in the actual build.

[1746] We built the building.

[1747] You built?

[1748] Wow.

[1749] We put together bikes and stuff.

[1750] Yeah.

[1751] Oh my gosh, really?

[1752] Yeah, they make you do that.

[1753] And then you guys were part of the grand opening?

[1754] Yeah.

[1755] Okay.

[1756] We were the first ones in.

[1757] So we became fast friends.

[1758] And we would go to Petty Cash.

[1759] I don't know if, shout out Petty Cash, Los Angeles.

[1760] Great restaurant.

[1761] It's still open.

[1762] I think we should maybe try to go.

[1763] We would get the cauliflower nachos.

[1764] Oh, wonderful.

[1765] And guacamole and margaritas.

[1766] any dietary reasons or just?

[1767] No, they're amazing.

[1768] You're so good.

[1769] You're not gluten -free or anything.

[1770] No, no, no, no, okay, great.

[1771] No, there was probably gluten in it.

[1772] Yeah, it's like chips with kale and cauliflower.

[1773] So it's like, you know, hiding the fact that it's healthy.

[1774] Okay, great.

[1775] So much cheese.

[1776] So much cheese.

[1777] So good.

[1778] Ample cheese.

[1779] Anyway, so we became really close there.

[1780] We were both key holders.

[1781] That was a big accomplishment.

[1782] That sounds like nexium a little bit.

[1783] It's not not like nexium.

[1784] Do either of you have brands of like a little?

[1785] cycle bike.

[1786] I don't like to talk about it.

[1787] Yeah, we can't talk about it.

[1788] So, yeah, what happens is you have a manager.

[1789] You have two assistant managers and then your staff.

[1790] And then after the first couple weeks of opening a studio, they decide who they're going to pick, yeah, to be a keyholder.

[1791] Oh, my God.

[1792] Now, keyholders get an extra dollar or 50 cents.

[1793] I think it was a dollar.

[1794] Okay.

[1795] The base rate was 14.

[1796] And if you were a keyholder, you got 15.

[1797] No. That's substantial.

[1798] Yeah.

[1799] No. Oh, we're just finding out that Emma made more than you.

[1800] No. She made more than me. Oh, my God, who made more than who?

[1801] No, I think with a keyholder's salary, we made $13 .50.

[1802] I'm almost positive on that.

[1803] Oh, my God, Emma, you were making $1 .50 more an hour.

[1804] No, she might be right.

[1805] I don't know.

[1806] No, I think, I think we're seeing some racism here.

[1807] Oh, fuck.

[1808] Well, there's two things.

[1809] There's racism, obviously.

[1810] And then you're benefiting.

[1811] from what tall men benefit from.

[1812] It's true.

[1813] Yes, I can trust this person.

[1814] They're a leader.

[1815] Let's pay Emma 15 an hour.

[1816] Let's give the short one, the short brown one, let's give her 1350 an hour.

[1817] Listen, first of all, it also ages, because I was the oldest one working.

[1818] Oh, okay.

[1819] At what, 26?

[1820] Younger than that, I think.

[1821] Okay.

[1822] No, I'm almost, I'll go back and look, but I'm almost positive it was 1350, maybe.

[1823] be even 13.

[1824] It was not a great salary.

[1825] Although the key holder is you're looking at an 8 % increase in salary.

[1826] You know, that's significant.

[1827] And did this keyholder has to open and close?

[1828] Exactly.

[1829] Okay.

[1830] So they pick three people, I think, two or three people to be key holders.

[1831] And I was the first one to be picked.

[1832] Just say?

[1833] I was not chosen the first round.

[1834] You weren't.

[1835] I was too young.

[1836] She was very young.

[1837] I was 20 years old.

[1838] Oh, my God.

[1839] Yeah, you can't give a key to a 20 -year -old.

[1840] No. They'll lose it.

[1841] They'll do cocaine off of it in the bathroom.

[1842] No, but Emma's very responsible.

[1843] So they named me keyholder.

[1844] And then they said, who do you think?

[1845] Oh, my gosh.

[1846] I said, I think Emma.

[1847] Oh, my gosh.

[1848] She went to bat for you.

[1849] Yeah.

[1850] And they said, I think Emma's a little young.

[1851] How about this other girl shot out Laura?

[1852] They were already paying her 14, 15 an hour.

[1853] We'd have to bump her to 15.

[1854] That's what they didn't tell me. They were like, oh, oh, no. Oh, yeah, we already got her at 14 .50.

[1855] That'd be outrageous.

[1856] No, so they named somebody else a keyholder.

[1857] And then how did you, you did end up becoming one?

[1858] Yeah, round two, I think I'd proven myself that although young, I was responsible.

[1859] Very, extremely.

[1860] Extremely responsible.

[1861] The most responsible, would you say, Monica?

[1862] Other than me. Emma can't answer that because she's the subject of the inquiry.

[1863] But would you say she was the most responsible person there?

[1864] Besides me. Oh, okay.

[1865] Would you agree with that assessment, Emma?

[1866] I would.

[1867] Oh, wow.

[1868] She really was.

[1869] I mean...

[1870] Did you look up to, Monica?

[1871] Because she was the first to get a key.

[1872] No, I was really short.

[1873] Well, okay, not literally.

[1874] Did you metaphorically look up to her?

[1875] I did.

[1876] You did.

[1877] You're putting an urnob beer.

[1878] There's nothing to look up to at the time other than...

[1879] Well, no, you're older.

[1880] Yeah.

[1881] But I had accomplished nothing.

[1882] You were awarded the key first, this coveted position.

[1883] Sure.

[1884] So there's things to admire.

[1885] Well, I also think I'm such a people pleaser.

[1886] And Monica was always really good at just being like, no, about things.

[1887] And I really respected that for boundaries.

[1888] Wow, even then, I don't even know that.

[1889] Is boundaries a euphemism?

[1890] I'm just teasing.

[1891] For what?

[1892] I respected her boundaries that you would set boundaries.

[1893] That could be a euphemism for you were just braddy.

[1894] Oh, geez.

[1895] That's a good joke.

[1896] I have so many jokes that I'm not understanding today.

[1897] I'm in the comedy business.

[1898] Okay.

[1899] So anyway, Emma was named also a keyholder.

[1900] And we trotted along at Beverly Hills really happily together.

[1901] And then she left me. She went to SoulCycle Hollywood.

[1902] Oh, you jump ship.

[1903] Yeah, I could walk there from my house.

[1904] So I had to.

[1905] Yeah, even though I didn't accept that explanation.

[1906] And did your keyholder privileges transfer over?

[1907] Or were you demoted?

[1908] No, no, they transferred over.

[1909] I don't, uh -oh, here it cuffs.

[1910] Do you let robots hold your keys?

[1911] It seems really cool to be interested with a key.

[1912] They don't let robots have your keys, even though we drive humans around.

[1913] Can I ask the robot a question?

[1914] Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[1915] Do you feel comfortable holding keys?

[1916] Because what about the magnetism?

[1917] You're right, it could get infused.

[1918] I may become a robot permanently holding a key, but that might be useful.

[1919] Well?

[1920] I'm harder to lose than a very tiny key.

[1921] I can pale around with you.

[1922] You're a human.

[1923] Have you met the robot yet, or have you heard about him?

[1924] I did hear about the robot.

[1925] Okay.

[1926] I didn't realize that while you did your voices, you made direct eye contact with her, which brings it a lot more intense.

[1927] Well, Emma, I'm speaking to her.

[1928] What am I going to look at Rob?

[1929] And he doesn't have any keys for the robot, the whole.

[1930] That's a really good point.

[1931] Yeah.

[1932] Well, I'm glad what you saw.

[1933] There was the first thing she said.

[1934] You got a lot of indication.

[1935] I don't know.

[1936] You wouldn't have known why on Earth would you have read any comments on this post.

[1937] But when I did my McCona Hay on the Sedona Rock, oh, uh -huh.

[1938] Several people wrote under it.

[1939] I see now what Monica's talking about.

[1940] And you weren't even looking at them.

[1941] Well, you were looking at the camera.

[1942] I think they, yeah, right in the lens as McConaughey does.

[1943] That's what he does.

[1944] Okay, so they felt it.

[1945] They were like, okay, I'm starting to understand why Monica objects.

[1946] God.

[1947] It's a burn, but, you know, I deserve it.

[1948] And sure, that's what you get.

[1949] But I love the robot, and I don't want him to go away.

[1950] You don't mind when the robot looks at you.

[1951] I don't, but I don't need him to come out every day.

[1952] Okay.

[1953] You know, I just, because I don't want to get sick of the robot.

[1954] Oh, see, yeah.

[1955] What do you think is a good schedule?

[1956] I don't want to over -sadjured.

[1957] I just love going to party You see like someone who's a very cool person Oh, okay You can come around more because he gave me a compliment Okay What maybe the listeners don't know is Dax Pinches his nose With both hands I think is probably the proprietary aspect of it To make the robot noise So you can see it coming Yeah, from a mile There's a lot of the I telegraph it quite a bit.

[1958] I wonder if you use that tool you have, if that would help make the robot.

[1959] So funny, I had a whole fantasy about this while I was exercising today.

[1960] Intake breathing.

[1961] Isn't that what it's called?

[1962] Yes, I do wear intake breathing, which is the greatest for upping my nitric oxide, which you know what I mean.

[1963] No, getting a full -on like swimmers think like this.

[1964] And then I was thinking because maybe I want to write an actual song and work with maybe either Bob or Brad.

[1965] To make a robot song?

[1966] Yeah, maybe for kids or something.

[1967] This is one of my, okay, can't we just like let the robot be?

[1968] Yeah, we could.

[1969] I don't want him to rise to startup.

[1970] You don't want him to get popular.

[1971] Well, this is, you're just afraid you're going to lose the robot.

[1972] Well, yeah.

[1973] Then he's going to outgrow you.

[1974] Not a chance.

[1975] No, not necessarily.

[1976] You're so uniquely cool.

[1977] You're always at the human parties.

[1978] This is not it.

[1979] He's ours and he's special.

[1980] But if he rises to stardom, he's going to get a big head.

[1981] He's not going to be, he's not...

[1982] Robots are super loyal.

[1983] It's not going to be a special, Dax.

[1984] Okay.

[1985] Well, no, what is going to happen?

[1986] He can't go on a soul train and sing.

[1987] He might go on talk shows and stuff.

[1988] Oh, my God.

[1989] What if I end up in a robot outfit somehow with this nose clamp on?

[1990] I just...

[1991] I like him where he's at.

[1992] Here's what I think could be fun for kids.

[1993] Is like the robot kind of wants to do what kids want to do.

[1994] No, teenagers.

[1995] He wants to go to fun parties and like...

[1996] My kids are like watching Disney shows where people go to a party and it seemed like I know what their fantasy of what a party is right now is a whole different thing than what a party is.

[1997] Right.

[1998] And I think the robot believes that too.

[1999] Yeah.

[2000] Yeah.

[2001] Okay.

[2002] Okay.

[2003] Well, TB, we'll get back around to that.

[2004] Let's rejoin.

[2005] So you guys were work buddies and then Monica, you were babysitting and at one point you said, my friend Emma also babysits you recommended Emma.

[2006] Yes.

[2007] So I actually don't know if I was recommended as much as it was that one day there was a pickle.

[2008] And I think Monica had an audition.

[2009] I was on a shoot.

[2010] Oh, yeah.

[2011] Okay.

[2012] She was never firmly committed to the role together.

[2013] No, no. How dare you?

[2014] But she called me and she was like, Can you go over to their house?

[2015] Just go inside.

[2016] I'll tell them you're coming because I lived a couple blocks away.

[2017] Right.

[2018] So I show up.

[2019] I knock on the door, nobody answers.

[2020] I go inside and Kristen comes at me and she's holding Delta and Delta had just fallen and smashed her face.

[2021] So severely.

[2022] Yeah, she was bleeding.

[2023] She covered in blood.

[2024] She was so little.

[2025] Her head's too big.

[2026] She still is.

[2027] Her head was way too big as a baby.

[2028] and she fell a lot.

[2029] Unlike Lincoln, she wasn't graceful like Lincoln.

[2030] Because of that watermelon head.

[2031] That big old brain of hers.

[2032] And she clobbered her face on the side of one of those little wooden stools you put your name into, the letters of your name.

[2033] I believe that's behind the couch you fell in here.

[2034] I wasn't there for the falling.

[2035] I was just there immediately after.

[2036] And it was crazy and it required stitches.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] So Kristen was like, Monica sent you great.

[2039] Get in the car with me, stranger.

[2040] Doesn't bode well for us, but go ahead.

[2041] And so I drove across down with Kristen and Delta to a doctor's office where she had to get stitched up.

[2042] Kristen hands me her car keys and said park the car and so, which in a very nice way.

[2043] Yeah, yeah.

[2044] Fucking park the car!

[2045] No. But like, do I have a driver's license?

[2046] Who knows?

[2047] Am I a responsible person?

[2048] She doesn't know.

[2049] Lots of questions.

[2050] She's extending a lot of trust via Monica.

[2051] Yeah, that's, yes.

[2052] And so I parked the car, go upstairs, meet them once Delta gets her stitches, and then we get back at the car and we go to the set of the good place.

[2053] Oh, my goodness.

[2054] What a whirlwind.

[2055] This was the first day.

[2056] Were you enjoying yourself or were you uncomfortable?

[2057] I think probably a little bit of both.

[2058] A little bit of both.

[2059] Yeah, because I think a part of me was like, wow, they're trusting me so much.

[2060] Yeah, this is the part that doesn't bode well for us.

[2061] But, yes.

[2062] But also, I thought if I was in the situation, I would want me to be there.

[2063] I trust myself.

[2064] Yes, your key holder.

[2065] Yeah, I'm a key holder.

[2066] Exactly.

[2067] And she was a babysitter.

[2068] That was real.

[2069] I didn't just pick any old person.

[2070] It was like someone who knows how to be with kids.

[2071] Because you were there to go to babysit while Kristen went to work.

[2072] Yes, exactly.

[2073] But then all this happened.

[2074] Oh, hell broke loose.

[2075] Where was Lincoln and all this?

[2076] I don't know.

[2077] School maybe.

[2078] We were recording.

[2079] No, no, no. I was on a shit.

[2080] This is way before.

[2081] Oh, no, you know what I'm getting confused with when Lincoln blew up her finger.

[2082] Oh.

[2083] A other trip to the hospital.

[2084] There's only been two trips to the hospital, like in the emergency room.

[2085] Not my wood.

[2086] Okay, that's why I got confused.

[2087] Because when Lincoln did that, I was here in the middle of an interview.

[2088] Yeah, we were here.

[2089] Hey, Bit Brothers.

[2090] Is that who was?

[2091] What a memory.

[2092] Why were you able to remember that just now you think?

[2093] I have a weird memory.

[2094] Okay, but it's intermittent you'd agree, right?

[2095] It's very specific, yeah.

[2096] Okay.

[2097] But, yes.

[2098] Oh, wow.

[2099] So then how did that day conclude?

[2100] You were on the set of Good Place.

[2101] Yes, and then she had to keep working, so she was like, Why don't you drive Delta home?

[2102] So Delta and I drove from like a canyon somewhere.

[2103] Oh, my God.

[2104] All the way back home.

[2105] This wouldn't end up in a tabloid.

[2106] This is like a neglect.

[2107] Yeah, it's not a great story about it.

[2108] Yes, it is.

[2109] Well, it is because I was a keyholder.

[2110] And she turned out to be wonderful in many different capacities.

[2111] And she was a key holder to your house, too.

[2112] Ultimately, even though I don't think we gave her a key.

[2113] No. Because even worse, as you heard, you could just walk out.

[2114] That's right, because your house doesn't require a key.

[2115] Yeah, I remember you were like, are you sure?

[2116] I was like, just walking, I promise.

[2117] It's fine.

[2118] That part is hard to get over.

[2119] That's a big hurdle.

[2120] And then how many other times did you babysit?

[2121] I think only like once.

[2122] Right, so I ended up with your number because you were babysitting, and we left and I got your number and I put in my phone, Emma babysitter.

[2123] Yeah.

[2124] Years later.

[2125] Years later, Emma moves, well, soon after, Emma moves to New York.

[2126] And why do you move to New York?

[2127] I'm from New York.

[2128] Okay, so I grew up in the city.

[2129] Don't get defensive, I'm just curious.

[2130] So you moved home.

[2131] I moved home from New York.

[2132] You should know that by now.

[2133] I should.

[2134] Well, I'm actually excited about this because there's tons of stuff I don't know about Emma.

[2135] Yeah.

[2136] That I'm excited to learn.

[2137] Well, also, I mean, we didn't say, but Emma is an actor.

[2138] Okay.

[2139] So she was at USC.

[2140] Oh, okay.

[2141] I was an actor.

[2142] I don't really do that anymore, but I got my BFA from USC.

[2143] Yeah.

[2144] In acting.

[2145] Inacting.

[2146] Oh, my goodness.

[2147] And she was doing that while working this whole cycle.

[2148] Yeah.

[2149] Like you two were an actor working at Soul Psycho.

[2150] Correct, but I wasn't in school.

[2151] Oh, you were in school, I got you.

[2152] All right, so you graduated, primarily, how long did you live here after you graduated USC?

[2153] Like two years.

[2154] Two years, and then you said, fuck this.

[2155] Yes.

[2156] Why?

[2157] Weather's too nice?

[2158] Yeah.

[2159] I was like, it's not good.

[2160] It's good for the soul.

[2161] Too much vitamin Dating, yeah, too much sun.

[2162] I wanted to move home.

[2163] Okay.

[2164] Because I missed my family.

[2165] And also I went through a really brutal breakup.

[2166] up and so I was like, I gotta leave, I need to change.

[2167] And I pieced out pretty quickly.

[2168] Like, I made the decision win.

[2169] That was the ingredient I was looking for.

[2170] I smelt a little more than just, I'm from New York.

[2171] Okay, how long were you living back in New York before you started working on armchair?

[2172] Oh, a long time.

[2173] A long time.

[2174] Yeah, I moved back to New York in 2017.

[2175] Okay.

[2176] I reached out to you in last year.

[2177] Yeah, like summer 2021.

[2178] Yeah.

[2179] Summer 21.

[2180] Okay, so we're going on 15.

[2181] months of employment is that what we're i think so let me say this right now do it emma is a phenom she is a phenom you're the greatest ever addition to armchair expert you interact with all the publicists you deal with a lot of stuff that's would make anyone else crazy you edit the show you have come in and you've made monica and i and robbie's life about a trillion times easier and we all are routinely over the moon and grateful for what a great job you do.

[2182] Thank you.

[2183] That means a lot.

[2184] I mean, truly.

[2185] Thank you.

[2186] I also help Monica edit the show.

[2187] You do a beautiful cleanup for me. You can take credit for editing the show.

[2188] Monica also edits the show.

[2189] And so does Billy.

[2190] Don't mitigate your compliment.

[2191] Okay.

[2192] You deserve it.

[2193] You do deserve it.

[2194] Thank you.

[2195] Yes.

[2196] So we hit max capacity and adding new shows and doing more stuff.

[2197] it was clear that we needed another person to help us.

[2198] And you were like for years rightly so, I don't know who I could possibly trust to do what I do.

[2199] How am I going to find this person?

[2200] And at some point you said to me, I think I could teach my friend Emma how to do this exactly how I do it.

[2201] Yes.

[2202] And that turned out to be true.

[2203] Exactly.

[2204] Yeah.

[2205] And I knew it because she had already proven herself a million times as a keyholder.

[2206] And I was like, she's perfect.

[2207] But, I mean, the only reason I hadn't thought of Emma earlier is because she lives in New York.

[2208] Yes.

[2209] And so I just wasn't thinking outside the confines of L .A. But when I really forced myself, it was like, who's the only person I trust to be as competent as necessary for this job?

[2210] And it was Emma.

[2211] Yes.

[2212] And it is weird that you live in New York.

[2213] And that's what's really fun about this visit.

[2214] To the podcast is you've been doing this for 15 or so months all day every day, full -time job.

[2215] Oh, yeah.

[2216] And you've never been here?

[2217] Nope, never.

[2218] You never met Rob face -to -face.

[2219] I met Rob this morning and we text like every single day.

[2220] Yes.

[2221] By the way, so Rob, what a cute invitation.

[2222] Do you know they got coffee at 7 .30 in the morning?

[2223] Yes, I texted Emma this morning.

[2224] Explain that time to me, Rob.

[2225] I was so perplexed by that.

[2226] I take Vincent every morning when they open Maru before the lines are crazy.

[2227] He's that into coffee.

[2228] He's got to get there right when it opens.

[2229] Well, macha, but yeah.

[2230] Okay, he drinks.

[2231] Otherwise the line by 8 o 'clock is too long.

[2232] Oh, okay.

[2233] That makes sense.

[2234] Yeah.

[2235] Aren't you guys both have like a secret pass at Maru?

[2236] Don't they like let you cheat?

[2237] Absolutely not.

[2238] How did you guys connect this morning?

[2239] Did you, did Rob say like, I'm in a ball cap that says, how did you know what to look for?

[2240] Well, I know what Rob looks like.

[2241] Oh, from the post.

[2242] From the post.

[2243] We've also zoomed before.

[2244] Yeah.

[2245] I guess that's a good point.

[2246] Yeah.

[2247] She doesn't have facial amnesia like David.

[2248] Yeah.

[2249] And I had a baby with me. Okay, that's helpful.

[2250] I'll be the dude with the baby who you've seen 20 times.

[2251] Now, if you meet David, just be prepared.

[2252] He'll forget you.

[2253] That's okay.

[2254] He's going to hurt your feelings.

[2255] Yeah, he hurts all of our feelings.

[2256] Rob's over and over again.

[2257] And mine.

[2258] When did he hurt yours?

[2259] He always hurts mine.

[2260] Oh, okay.

[2261] Anywho, so, yeah, so Emma's been with us for the last 15 months.

[2262] It has been insanely helpful.

[2263] I trust her like crazy.

[2264] Here are my questions for you.

[2265] How are you liking being back in New York?

[2266] Is that where you want to stay forever?

[2267] I love being back in New York.

[2268] I love New York City.

[2269] I do want to stay there forever.

[2270] But who knows where life's going to take me?

[2271] I never expected to be working here with you guys.

[2272] Yeah.

[2273] And it's a pretty cool plot twist.

[2274] Yeah.

[2275] So I'm not going to say always or forever about anything.

[2276] And where in the city do you live?

[2277] I live in Fort Green, Brooklyn.

[2278] Okay.

[2279] And is this a hipstery area?

[2280] It is a bit of a hipstery area.

[2281] Okay, great.

[2282] Well, you lived in Los Phyllis when you lived in L .A., so that doesn't shock me that you're in a cool area of New York.

[2283] But your family, where do they live?

[2284] My dad lives on the Upper West Side.

[2285] That's where I grew up.

[2286] Yeah, right across the street from Columbia University.

[2287] What the fuck does he do that you got to grow up there?

[2288] My dad's a stage manager for Broadway shows.

[2289] He is?

[2290] Yeah.

[2291] Well, he was kind of retired, but.

[2292] Okay.

[2293] Name a show that he was on forever.

[2294] Was he on one that ran a long time?

[2295] He would leave pretty quickly, so he would, like, open shows and then go.

[2296] But he did spam a lot.

[2297] Oh.

[2298] Yeah, and then when I was a kid, he did, like, Miss Saigon.

[2299] Oh, he did, like, Miss. There's like a prop helicopter in Miss. Wow.

[2300] Yeah, he's done lots of stuff.

[2301] Very acclaimed.

[2302] And mom?

[2303] My mom was an actress.

[2304] Okay.

[2305] They met on the national tour of Annie.

[2306] Oh, my God.

[2307] Was she playing Daddy Warbucks?

[2308] She's playing a child.

[2309] Yeah.

[2310] No, she was Grace Farrell or the one that Daddy Warbucks falls in love with.

[2311] Oh, wonderful.

[2312] Yeah.

[2313] That was fun.

[2314] Yeah.

[2315] And what part of town does she live in?

[2316] She now lives in rural New Jersey.

[2317] Oh, is that fun to go visit her?

[2318] It's great.

[2319] She lives on a lake.

[2320] It's fantastic.

[2321] Good for her.

[2322] Yeah, but they're divorced and they live in separate places now.

[2323] Right.

[2324] But if they were still married and she was on a lake in New Jersey and he was on there?

[2325] Sounds like a great marriage.

[2326] Is she remarried?

[2327] No, she's not.

[2328] Okay, wow, so she's just a single gal living on a lake.

[2329] She is.

[2330] Does she have a speedboat?

[2331] She doesn't have a speedboat.

[2332] There are no speedboats allowed on the lake.

[2333] She does have a pontoon boat?

[2334] Electric?

[2335] Yes, because it plugs in.

[2336] Wonderful, yes.

[2337] And a bunch of kayaks.

[2338] Oh, this is great.

[2339] I want to hang with her.

[2340] She also plays the harp.

[2341] Oh, really?

[2342] Yeah.

[2343] Does she want to come to the Christmas special?

[2344] She should.

[2345] It's beautiful.

[2346] That's a cumbersome -ass instrument to travel with.

[2347] You can't really get on a plane with a harpsichord.

[2348] Well, it's an Irish harp, so it's smaller.

[2349] Oh, okay.

[2350] Not the big cartoony one.

[2351] But I will also say, I fall asleep every single time she plays it for me. Oh, really?

[2352] Which I think is a huge compliment.

[2353] Yes.

[2354] Did she play it for you when you were a baby?

[2355] Do you have like muscle memory of that?

[2356] No, she started all these new hobbies.

[2357] later in life.

[2358] Okay.

[2359] Oh, wow.

[2360] I want an instrument hobby later in life.

[2361] Have you ever played an instrument?

[2362] Piano when I was second grade.

[2363] I had bad recital and I stopped.

[2364] I quit piano too when I was a kid.

[2365] Is a traumatic event like that?

[2366] Bad recital?

[2367] No, I just didn't like practicing.

[2368] Yeah, no one likes practicing.

[2369] This is a problem.

[2370] This is the thing.

[2371] This is the thing about children.

[2372] You can't make them anything.

[2373] They're like Delta practices the piano all day every day.

[2374] We've not asked her to.

[2375] once.

[2376] Lincoln, I couldn't offer a billion dollars to practice something like that.

[2377] It's just who they are.

[2378] It's who you are.

[2379] Yeah.

[2380] I don't know if you can beat that into a kid.

[2381] I don't think you can.

[2382] No, my parents tried.

[2383] They really, my mom was using all the techniques.

[2384] She was like, you're going to regret it.

[2385] I regret it.

[2386] You know, she's like really even trying to make it personal and didn't matter.

[2387] And of course, I regret it.

[2388] Do you though?

[2389] Yes.

[2390] I would do anything to be able to play the piano.

[2391] Like Brittany did in that video.

[2392] Oh, ding, ding, ding.

[2393] I think we should bring that out.

[2394] All right.

[2395] And then I'll pepper in more questions for Emma as we proceed.

[2396] Okay, so we have a fact from last fact check.

[2397] It's an update.

[2398] It was an Easter egg, and now it's a duck, duck goose.

[2399] So I found the clip of Crossroads, and there's a clip of her.

[2400] Cracking the song, not yet a woman.

[2401] Okay.

[2402] Okay.

[2403] Hold on.

[2404] I have a lot of tabs.

[2405] Yeah, yeah.

[2406] Yeah, like that.

[2407] I don't know.

[2408] I think I got it.

[2409] Oh, wow.

[2410] It's all coming out.

[2411] Again, just one, what's a time stamp on that?

[2412] How long is that?

[2413] It's a minute 19.

[2414] Okay, so a minute and 17 seconds before that she had never heard the song.

[2415] This is what he had written the track for it.

[2416] And she in the movie, she's just hearing it for the first time.

[2417] She's like, okay.

[2418] She invented that song in a minute and 18 seconds.

[2419] So it was as quick as I remembered it.

[2420] I was delighted to find it.

[2421] Yes.

[2422] Okay, I'm going to do some facts.

[2423] I actually have a lot of facts for this.

[2424] Who is this?

[2425] Mark, Rober.

[2426] Oh, Mark Rober.

[2427] Yes.

[2428] What a sweetheart.

[2429] Could you feel his sweetness?

[2430] He seemed very sweet, yeah.

[2431] Yeah.

[2432] Okay, so the first thing is ASMR.

[2433] You guys talk a little bit about ASMR.

[2434] I thought I'd play some ASMR.

[2435] Oh, really good idea.

[2436] Now, this person, ASMR Darling, She's big in the ASMR world.

[2437] How many views does that thing have?

[2438] It has 38 million views.

[2439] I mean, forget it.

[2440] That's more than we've ever all cumulatively.

[2441] Like, that's insane.

[2442] 38 million views.

[2443] This is a ding, ding for Mark.

[2444] That's Super Bowl.

[2445] Yes, it is.

[2446] He's in a hundred million club.

[2447] Okay, now I'm going to play some, all right?

[2448] Now, if you're in the car, maybe pause, because this is to put people to sleep.

[2449] Okay.

[2450] If it really works.

[2451] I'm going to skip ahead.

[2452] You're hearing it, though There we go I don't know why SMR is so perverse But it is This is lotion Oh my gosh It sounds like jerking off It does This isn't going to help anyone Go to sleep I kind of like this sound Okay Yeah Of the hair Mirror neuron Semi erotic That's what I think It's very perverse Yeah Wow All right So that's a clip Of ASMR Emma says no. What do you think?

[2453] I don't dislike it, but I've talked to people who are super into ASMR.

[2454] You either have it or you don't.

[2455] It makes certain people euphoric.

[2456] Right, I know.

[2457] But I do think it is genetic.

[2458] Like people either instantly, it does something in their brain or it doesn't.

[2459] The people that are into it are like, it's transcendent and euphoric immediately.

[2460] But what if it's like the other way?

[2461] Like that grossed me out.

[2462] Like I felt my body like I got a little squirmy.

[2463] Yeah, you didn't like that.

[2464] Well, we just learned you have some trauma, I think.

[2465] Oh.

[2466] Yeah.

[2467] It'll do that.

[2468] It'll expose trauma.

[2469] Do you want to take the ACE test right now?

[2470] In front of everyone.

[2471] Publicly.

[2472] Well, that became a questionnaire, like shows have questionnaires, but our questionnaire was the 10 -A's questions.

[2473] That would be kind of interesting.

[2474] Ever been molested by a family member?

[2475] No. Okay, that's a no. Food scarcity?

[2476] Well, that's kind of a ding, ding, ding.

[2477] You said cocaine is a triple inhibitor or...

[2478] Uptake inhibitor?

[2479] Yes.

[2480] I didn't get the three things right, though, did I?

[2481] They are Okay, here we go Serotonin Norepinephrine and dopamine I think you did Yeah, yeah, yeah I know my cocaine You do You sure do That smells so good That's the thing about cocaine It just smells good Such a dad joke I know Also try the robot Saying that joke He shouldn't talk about cocaine Oh he's too pure Let me see But he's going to parties Are you guys doing cocaine I hear it's a triple up inhibitor neuro -preventant dopamine and serotonin three chemicals a robot can only dream of having I could do the cocaine but it won't result in any heightened state I don't have those chemicals that was good it makes sense because at a party there might be cocaine exactly so he has to know how to interact with cocaine he's gonna feel left out of when he goes in all the boys will be doing cocaine, the human boys.

[2482] I mean, do you think we're allowed to tell that story?

[2483] About the party?

[2484] Yeah.

[2485] We can try.

[2486] There's one thing that happened at SoulCycle adjacent.

[2487] Again, all these young kids are working there, working the front desk.

[2488] Much of aspiring actors, Hollywood, California.

[2489] Yeah, it's a shit show.

[2490] So two girls have a joint birthday party.

[2491] Yeah.

[2492] And we all go, and it's a cocaine.

[2493] Pain party.

[2494] No. Like, to what extent?

[2495] Well, one of the instructors was there.

[2496] Uh -huh.

[2497] And the instructor's mother was also there.

[2498] And, uh, they were.

[2499] She was a big instructor.

[2500] A big instructor.

[2501] Well, the mom was as well.

[2502] No, just the instructor.

[2503] Okay.

[2504] But the instructor was like.

[2505] Oh, it was a female with her mother there.

[2506] Yeah.

[2507] She was a woman.

[2508] She was not a girl.

[2509] No. She was not.

[2510] Yeah.

[2511] She was fully a woman.

[2512] She was like a day.

[2513] A decade older than most of us, I want to say.

[2514] Yeah.

[2515] And had her mom there who now was in her 60s or something.

[2516] A lot of cocaine happening in the bedroom.

[2517] In the bedroom?

[2518] Yeah.

[2519] It was out on the bed on mirrors or something?

[2520] It was out.

[2521] Yeah, on the desk.

[2522] What did you guys see?

[2523] People doing cocaine.

[2524] I didn't see physically see anyone doing cocaine.

[2525] I did see this instructor's mother come ripping out of this bedroom talking about said cocaine.

[2526] Oh, okay.

[2527] I saw it in the bedroom.

[2528] Oh, no way.

[2529] Yeah, they were just doing cocaine.

[2530] You went in there like, hey, what's going on in here?

[2531] Like you were the robot.

[2532] Yeah.

[2533] And then you saw, oh, they're doing drugs.

[2534] Yep.

[2535] This isn't for me. I got to get out of here.

[2536] Kind of, yep.

[2537] Okay.

[2538] I didn't do any.

[2539] That shouldn't say obviously, but I didn't do it.

[2540] And I don't want to fetishize this story, but did you notice how much, like, were.

[2541] I don't have any.

[2542] I don't really know what's a lot and what's not a lot.

[2543] So I'm not sure.

[2544] But it was all night.

[2545] I mean, I think they kept going in and doing it.

[2546] It's not a one -and -done drug.

[2547] It's, you do it nonstop.

[2548] And then I think it got back to our boxes.

[2549] What could they can say?

[2550] Exactly.

[2551] They couldn't, like, fire them.

[2552] But because there was so much staff there, they got in trouble.

[2553] Okay.

[2554] Were there any guys that worked there with you guys?

[2555] Uh -huh.

[2556] And were people fucking there?

[2557] No. I mean, because if you're having Coke parties, it sounds like people should, be also fucking was it full on this job or what i didn't stay that late maybe you didn't know of any risk of business no but there was a sexual harassment oh my gosh yeah there was there was from the mother of the instructor no it was two men with each other a man sexually harassed another man yeah okay we don't know what he did he got fired okay but we don't know what he did i think he did like pinch his butt.

[2558] Yeah, I remember some butt touching.

[2559] But that's amount in football.

[2560] But not at work.

[2561] Some light butt touching.

[2562] That's their job.

[2563] At work?

[2564] Yeah, football players.

[2565] It's not at the front desk of SoulCycle part of the job description.

[2566] But, you know, lines got across.

[2567] People felt too comfortable and this is what happens.

[2568] Nexium.

[2569] There was also a knife.

[2570] Someone came in with a knife once.

[2571] Were you there for that?

[2572] Yes, I was there.

[2573] No, he pretended it was a gun.

[2574] Oh, you were there.

[2575] Did you have to go testify?

[2576] Yes.

[2577] Oh, my God.

[2578] Guys, I'm so jealous I didn't work there.

[2579] This sounds like my dream job at 7 -Eleven.

[2580] Like, the action was happening.

[2581] I know.

[2582] Coke parties, ass pinching, knives, guns, statements.

[2583] Exactly right.

[2584] A lot happened within that, like, year, year and a half.

[2585] No wonder you moved back to New York.

[2586] Yeah.

[2587] It's too crazy.

[2588] I feel like, this place is the devil's workshop.

[2589] Okay, when did YouTube start?

[2590] 2005.

[2591] February 14th, the day armchair expert started.

[2592] Valentine's Day.

[2593] That's right.

[2594] Hello Bello.

[2595] Hello Bello.

[2596] Armchair expert.

[2597] YouTube.

[2598] Yeah.

[2599] All the same.

[2600] The big three.

[2601] Okay.

[2602] Which of his videos has the most views?

[2603] If you go to his videos and you go to popular, it's this skin a watermelon party trick has 126 million views.

[2604] and that's showing up as the highest.

[2605] That means one in two Americans watched it.

[2606] But I am in the know.

[2607] I haven't seen this.

[2608] Have you?

[2609] No. Have you?

[2610] I watched it when he was talking about it.

[2611] All right.

[2612] I looked it up as he was talking about it.

[2613] And had you seen it?

[2614] Not prior.

[2615] I've seen a bunch of his videos, but not the watermelon one.

[2616] So this is odd statistics -wise.

[2617] Yeah.

[2618] And granted, it's not confined to the U .S. People are watching this around the world.

[2619] I also imagine someone's watching it 35 times.

[2620] Yeah.

[2621] You know?

[2622] Like I would.

[2623] Yes.

[2624] Had you watched it, you would have seen it 50 plus time.

[2625] So did you watch it or did you just look at the...

[2626] No. Oh, my God.

[2627] I haven't watched it yet.

[2628] That wasn't the fact.

[2629] The fact was most pop.

[2630] I know.

[2631] Pop it on, see if you respond to it.

[2632] Definitely.

[2633] Oh, my gosh.

[2634] Oh, my gosh.

[2635] What the heck?

[2636] It looks like a pill.

[2637] Oh, my gosh.

[2638] You want to know how I did it?

[2639] How.

[2640] So I'm going to make a video about this.

[2641] That's right.

[2642] He's so cute.

[2643] He's so cute.

[2644] And watch the video and then you'll see how I did.

[2645] Oh.

[2646] So a while back I made a video about how you can use a coat hanger and a drill to make a watermelon smoothie.

[2647] And a bunch you actually did it and told me everyone who party thought it was awesome, albeit slightly creepy.

[2648] So this is another watermelon party trick and the key is to start with two watermelons that are similar in shape and size.

[2649] I would give up on this like...

[2650] Four cuts in.

[2651] And then you want to just make a bunch of shallow straight cuts until there's no green left.

[2652] Oh god.

[2653] And then for round two you want to harness your inner fruit ninja and just make a bunch of little slices until there's only red left.

[2654] Oh, whoa.

[2655] And this looks okay, but the problem is you can still see a lot of edges from the flat cuts.

[2656] Wow.

[2657] But some brand new discrubbing pads make for great watermelon sandpaper.

[2658] And then it gets super smooth.

[2659] So the second watermelon is pretty straightforward.

[2660] You just cut it in two halves.

[2661] Got it using your favorite method.

[2662] This is watermelon you could actually eat later at the party as well.

[2663] And then carve out full halves.

[2664] Oh, it looks like a dog penis.

[2665] Ew, you're right.

[2666] So the coolest part is now you can put it back together and take it to the party like this.

[2667] We mean little ones?

[2668] Oh, that's satisfying.

[2669] Don't forget to chill it before him.

[2670] It works for any size watermelon.

[2671] And you can get creative too.

[2672] This is sort of like an impossible ship -in -a -bottle type of concept.

[2673] So depending on the size of your watermelon, average prep time is about 10 minutes, which is less time than making most other summer party dishes like gross and lame, potato salad, which, let's face it, nobody really likes.

[2674] That's cute.

[2675] I didn't know it was a cooking show.

[2676] It is not a cooking show at all.

[2677] That might be his only food related to all.

[2678] That's a cooking video, and you know I love cooking videos.

[2679] He does the squirrel obstacle course is fantastic.

[2680] Okay.

[2681] The elephant paste, toothpaste is the best.

[2682] I have seen that.

[2683] It takes over the whole mountain side.

[2684] That's really cool.

[2685] And I like, there was some ASMR in it.

[2686] There was, and some perverse stuff because there was that point that it did look like a dog penis.

[2687] It really did once you said that, Red Rocket.

[2688] Well, don't, there you know, the old lipstick.

[2689] Pate that about Frank.

[2690] I know.

[2691] Oh, keep it in your fucking sleeve, Frank.

[2692] Have you seen it yet, Emma?

[2693] No, I have.

[2694] shown you Has he sexually arrest you yet Not you're staying at our house Is it just constantly out?

[2695] No and he's happy I don't even know if it's sexual It's more just like inordinately aimed at me Because I don't like to hang with Frank that much I'm not mean to him but also I don't invite him up He drives me crazy He bites your hand the whole time you're with him Occasionally I'll give him a good scratch And I'll let him sit with me And he is a wrecked beyond belief I think it's like not going to go back It's so overly excited Because you're hard to get.

[2696] And he likes that.

[2697] For him.

[2698] You'll see it.

[2699] You'll see it.

[2700] Don't worry.

[2701] Should I be offended if I don't?

[2702] Yeah.

[2703] You really should.

[2704] Honestly, yeah.

[2705] You should go to the mall and have like a makeover if it doesn't happen.

[2706] And when you get to the mall counter and you go, what do you have a party or go to a wedding?

[2707] You go, no, no, this dog.

[2708] Apparently this dog gets a wrecked for everybody.

[2709] But he can't seem to get excited around me. Oh, my God.

[2710] And your makeover has like little tufts of fur and stuff.

[2711] They really make you up to look like a canine.

[2712] No, I don't think he's attracted to other dogs.

[2713] I know.

[2714] He's attracted to humans.

[2715] Hard to get humans.

[2716] So play cool.

[2717] I'll say make me look like Dax.

[2718] There you go.

[2719] They'll put a little bug -and -lock shadow on you.

[2720] Oh, my God.

[2721] Okay.

[2722] So he mentioned that humans have more in common genetically with chimps than my pseudoract.

[2723] That's true.

[2724] It says a comparison of Clint's genetic blueprints with that of the human genome shows that our closest living relatives share 90 % of our DNA.

[2725] The number of genetic differences between humans and chimps is 10 times smaller than that between mice and rats.

[2726] Yeah.

[2727] Isn't it higher than 90 %?

[2728] It says 90 %?

[2729] 96.

[2730] Oh, okay.

[2731] I didn't hear the 6.

[2732] I thought I just heard 90.

[2733] 96.

[2734] Yeah.

[2735] I mean, we're dams near the same.

[2736] It's crazy.

[2737] Okay.

[2738] Are hippos the most dangerous animal in Africa, which you said?

[2739] Yes.

[2740] Oh, great.

[2741] Give you that, you know.

[2742] I guess we should air this.

[2743] There was a lot of complaints about the audio in the Stamos episode, I believe.

[2744] Oh, really?

[2745] Yeah, that they were hearing some weird noises.

[2746] One guy thought his truck was breaking.

[2747] A lot of complaints.

[2748] Oh, there was a lot of construction that day?

[2749] Yeah, yeah.

[2750] And so to that, I just have to say, like, we work on an active construction site.

[2751] There's not really much we can do about it.

[2752] So our apologies, but it was not intentional on our part, nor did we.

[2753] And ding, ding, ding.

[2754] Emma does her best to get rid of all those sounds.

[2755] So it would be way worse.

[2756] There we go.

[2757] Yeah, I muted the other two tracks and you could still hear it.

[2758] Because I think it's vibrational a little bit.

[2759] ASMR?

[2760] Oh, ding, ding.

[2761] We're giving you ASMR.

[2762] Yeah.

[2763] That episode should have 27 million downloads.

[2764] Okay, was Lamar started by a NASA scientist?

[2765] Brand story.

[2766] Oh, great.

[2767] Our journey began when Dr. Max Huber suffered burns in a lab accident and was inspired to create his own destiny.

[2768] Aerospace physicist by day, stargazer and dreamer by night, he hoped to unlock the legendary healing powers of the sea he held so dear.

[2769] What if I got into ASMR?

[2770] I think you could probably have a popular channel.

[2771] You're a cute girl who could get weird in your apartment with eggshells.

[2772] and sand and coins and make noises.

[2773] Do you think people would like the sound of me chewing on my shirt?

[2774] Of course.

[2775] You just have to keep going from the left to the right.

[2776] You chew on your shirt.

[2777] Yeah, I like, I don't know, I guess.

[2778] Yeah.

[2779] See, like you might be hearing a noise right now.

[2780] Vibrational.

[2781] Vibrational noise, groinel.

[2782] It is the garage door opening below us to Dan Gaines beef -hoss.

[2783] That's right.

[2784] Someone in the family is training.

[2785] We can't stop them.

[2786] Oh, okay, is it Brené Brown who calls it the Halo Effect?

[2787] Yes.

[2788] Is Mr. Beest the biggest YouTuber?

[2789] Yeah.

[2790] So, sort of.

[2791] So Mr. Bees is the most subscribed individual user on YouTube and the fourth most subscribed YouTube channel overall.

[2792] Okay.

[2793] With 112 million subscribers as of November 22.

[2794] Wow.

[2795] But, ding, ding, ding.

[2796] The Indian Music Video Channel T -Series.

[2797] is the most subscribe YouTube channel with 229 million subscribers as of November 2022.

[2798] Well done, India.

[2799] Wow, I did them all.

[2800] There were a lot.

[2801] Was there a four or five?

[2802] That's a lot.

[2803] A lot of videos.

[2804] A lot of multimedia.

[2805] Yeah.

[2806] Yeah, some ASMR, some light ASMR.

[2807] All right, well, let's ask Emma some more questions before we go.

[2808] Okay.

[2809] I have more.

[2810] Do you have siblings?

[2811] I do.

[2812] Tell me about it.

[2813] I have one younger sister who's two years younger than me. And then I have two way older siblings who are half siblings.

[2814] Wonderful.

[2815] Dad's first marriage?

[2816] Yeah, my dad had two kids when he was like 19.

[2817] Oh my goodness.

[2818] So what's the age gap?

[2819] Between me and these siblings?

[2820] 27 years.

[2821] Wow.

[2822] That's a Florence Pew.

[2823] Yes.

[2824] One Florence Pew.

[2825] Wow.

[2826] One Pew.

[2827] Wow.

[2828] I always use interdivation.

[2829] We could start using a Florence Pew.

[2830] Yeah, they're like as old as some of my friends.

[2831] parents.

[2832] Did they go into show business?

[2833] They did not, no. Okay.

[2834] Are you the only one of the four that went into show business?

[2835] Yeah.

[2836] You are.

[2837] What's the little sister do?

[2838] My little sister works at a methadone clinic.

[2839] Hot dog, I love to talk to.

[2840] So my aunt runs the clinic.

[2841] She's a therapist there.

[2842] And then my sister does like office assistant sort of stuff there.

[2843] Swipes pills, sells them on the corner.

[2844] Exactly.

[2845] God's work.

[2846] And then I guess my main question is you're not going to move here.

[2847] So that's that.

[2848] I guess we didn't say You didn't say that, you're right.

[2849] Anything's possible.

[2850] I'm going to take her to a wine bar after this, and I'm going to lure her in.

[2851] She'll never go back.

[2852] Well, you know what I was thinking is you'll be vacating your beautiful apartment, right?

[2853] It would be perfect.

[2854] It would a seamless transition.

[2855] And this ex -boyfriend, he's out of the, he's.

[2856] He's dead.

[2857] He is.

[2858] Oh, yeah, he passed.

[2859] Wait, really?

[2860] Okay.

[2861] Okay, I'm scared.

[2862] I have to really give you credit, and maybe this is a tale to who, whoever's listening who wants to be good at their job.

[2863] It's really annoying to be good at your job and be competent because when you first joined, and I was asking you to maybe start, because first you were going to just do scheduling and stuff.

[2864] And then it was Emma, do you think you could handle some cleanup editing?

[2865] It's going to be a long process.

[2866] And for a long time, I had Emma do an edit and I also didn't edit.

[2867] Right.

[2868] And I asked her to place both edits side by side.

[2869] Yeah, you're a taskmaster.

[2870] And did it work?

[2871] Yes, it fucking did.

[2872] Yeah, that was that boundary's thing she was hinting at.

[2873] I asked for her to listen to it in chunks and compare what she had done versus what I had done so she can start understanding what I'm doing.

[2874] Because I can write out what I do, but I can't.

[2875] No, and what's great.

[2876] First of all, it turned up to be a brilliant strategy because it worked beautifully.

[2877] Yes.

[2878] Secondly, it's kind of the thing I always talk about.

[2879] Like, actors are so triggered by line readings.

[2880] But I'm always like, no, no, I'll understand way more what you want by you delivering it the way you think it should be delivered than I will be your adjectives.

[2881] I love line reading so much.

[2882] They're everything.

[2883] Yeah, adjectives and descriptions only can take you so far.

[2884] So that what you did was a line reading version of learning to edit.

[2885] That's right.

[2886] That's true.

[2887] And we did that for a while.

[2888] And then now she's, She's infiltrated, and I love it.

[2889] Yeah, this is really escalated.

[2890] I started just, like, answering some emails.

[2891] Yeah.

[2892] And now it's just all the time.

[2893] She's a full employee of ours.

[2894] Absolutely.

[2895] And I think what's clear to everyone is that following the trajectory, quite soon, and we'll be the host of the show.

[2896] I'm Monica and I will be at SoulCycle.

[2897] Key Holders.

[2898] Keyholders.

[2899] I'll be hosting the Coke parties and pinching male co -workers' asses.

[2900] Sure, sure.

[2901] That sounds right.

[2902] And you'll be eye -rolling.

[2903] That's right.

[2904] in charge of justice and punishment.

[2905] Well, life's a circle, you know.

[2906] We all know that you turn into babies.

[2907] All roads lead back to SoulCycle.

[2908] Okay, I hope everyone enjoyed this introduction to Emma Lawrence's SoulCycle or I'm a babysitter.

[2909] Take your pick.

[2910] I think you'd probably prefer SoulCycle.

[2911] Does babysitter trigger you?

[2912] For Monica, it was a bit of a trigger.

[2913] It was a huge trigger.

[2914] I do know that.

[2915] Yeah.

[2916] Does it trigger me?

[2917] Not really.

[2918] I think while I was still a babysitter, probably.

[2919] But I don't hang out with it.

[2920] children anymore, except Rob's baby this morning.

[2921] Yes.

[2922] So I don't mind it.

[2923] Well, that's true.

[2924] It doesn't, I don't mind it now.

[2925] I was a babysitter at that time.

[2926] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2927] I only had one little run at babysitting.

[2928] I was a boy my age, which you know that story.

[2929] It's so heartbreaking.

[2930] Wait, what?

[2931] Oh.

[2932] Well, I was really responsible.

[2933] It sounds like you're about to tell your molesting story.

[2934] No, no. Oh, God.

[2935] Which you can.

[2936] Feel free.

[2937] It's a safe space.

[2938] Mark, Frank, in here.

[2939] It seems like the right place for it.

[2940] Yeah.

[2941] You know this story, but I was a very responsible boy, like the robot.

[2942] And I was already babysitting my little sister since I was seven.

[2943] My dad had a drinking buddy who had a son who still required a babysitter.

[2944] We were the same age.

[2945] So my dad would say, no problem, man, I'll pick you up, we'll go out drinking, and Dax can watch.

[2946] No. I'm not going to say his name.

[2947] This is not a problem because I lived in Milford and this boy lived in Walde Lake.

[2948] But my dad told me you have to lie and act three years older.

[2949] And as you recall, it was enormous.

[2950] my age.

[2951] So it really, everything was fine.

[2952] And so I would go over and hang out with this kid.

[2953] It was great.

[2954] He was my age.

[2955] It was fun, you know.

[2956] The dad who was my dad's drinking buddy, would leave his pizza money.

[2957] We had that cable.

[2958] It was fucking great.

[2959] So I babysat this kid probably, I don't know, 10 times.

[2960] Well, unforeseen.

[2961] My father then gets in this crazy car accident between 8th and 9th grade.

[2962] He needs someone to help him.

[2963] I move from Milford to Waldlake to live with my dad.

[2964] And then I enroll at Walde Lake Central.

[2965] Uh -oh.

[2966] I get.

[2967] get to school and I'm in a class with this kid and it's all revealed totally unsaid but he's looking at me thinking either he's flunked three times or they lied to me and he was babysitting me and were classmates I have follow -up questions one did you get paid for this babysitting game well okay great yeah big time like overpaid two does this speak to the kid being extremely immature or incapable or the parents who were so, like, strict that they felt like he's not old enough to be on his own.

[2968] Like, it could go either way.

[2969] They had assessed that this boy on his own at 11 was going to be scary.

[2970] Right.

[2971] Some shit hit the fan.

[2972] Right.

[2973] Got it.

[2974] And my dad was like, oh, this motherfucker's by himself all the time with the baby.

[2975] Right.

[2976] Let's get Dax over there.

[2977] It'll be fine.

[2978] Like, he can drive a car.

[2979] He knows how to call the police.

[2980] He can drive a car.

[2981] Everything will be chill.

[2982] Let's go get hammered.

[2983] And then my dad would pick me up, shit -faced.

[2984] And then we'd go back to his house.

[2985] And that was my weekend with my dad.

[2986] Yeah, yeah.

[2987] Good thing you had therapy today.

[2988] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2989] All right.

[2990] Well, I love you.

[2991] I love you.

[2992] I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love everyone in here.

[2993] The whole team.

[2994] What a good team.

[2995] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2996] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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