S18 E5: (4/7) [Seanna] How is There More?

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] It discusses topics that can be upsetting and triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, child abuse, and murder.

[12] Content warnings for each episode are at the top of episode notes.

[13] And confidential and free resources for survivors can be found linked in our episode notes, as well as on our website, something was wrong .com slash resources.

[14] Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Testimony shared by guests on the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, something was wrong, broken cycle media, or wondering.

[16] The podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is any of the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] You think you know me, you don't know me well.

[19] So her contractions were not leveling out.

[20] This whole time, I'm trying to convince her to go to the hospital.

[21] And she's going into the different room, calling them, and coming back and saying that they told her to stay home.

[22] I was really sleep deprived.

[23] Tuesday to Wednesday, we do the same thing.

[24] So at this point, it's been 48 hours.

[25] and it's coming up on 48 hours since her water broke.

[26] And my mentor is like, this is insane.

[27] The hospital is not telling her this.

[28] There's no way the hospital is telling her to stay home at this point.

[29] So on Wednesday, I take another break, and I called the hospital.

[30] And I said, I'm a new dula.

[31] I have this client.

[32] She thinks her water broke on Monday.

[33] The nurse at the hospital was like, she needs to come in.

[34] And I was like, she says that she's been calling you guys and that you've been telling her to stay home.

[35] And she was like, I don't know who would say that to her.

[36] But if her water broke on Monday, she needs to come in.

[37] And I was like, okay, thank you very much.

[38] I will do my best.

[39] After I talk to the hospital, I go back to Caitlin's house.

[40] She was waiting for me. She opened the door as I was walking up the stairs.

[41] She was like, what's wrong?

[42] And I was like, what do you mean what's wrong?

[43] She was like, tell me what's wrong.

[44] I was like, What are you talking about?

[45] She was like, something is wrong.

[46] I can see it on your face.

[47] And I was like, let me come in your house and we'll sit down and we'll talk.

[48] Nothing is wrong.

[49] Just let me come in and talk to you.

[50] And she was like, you think that I need to go to the hospital.

[51] And I said, I think you need to go to the hospital.

[52] And she was like, okay, so we go back into her bedroom.

[53] And she's like, okay, I just need a minute.

[54] But then she just laid down on her bed and didn't do anything.

[55] And I was like, I can give you a minute.

[56] but we got to go.

[57] You're going to get an infection.

[58] This is dangerous at this point.

[59] She starts sobbing.

[60] And there's no tears, but she's beside herself.

[61] She says through sobs, I'm so sorry I didn't tell you this.

[62] I should have told you this before.

[63] And at this point, I'm like, oh, my God, she's going to tell me that she's not pregnant.

[64] Because when I had had my break, my mentor said, are you sure she's pregnant?

[65] Through sobs, she says, my assistant.

[66] all happened right outside the emergency doors at Bramford Hospital.

[67] And I said, okay, is there any other entrance that we can take into the hospital that you won't have to go by that spot?

[68] And she said, no. And I was like, okay, I'm trying to think of solution.

[69] So I said, well, would you be willing to go to a different hospital?

[70] She's sobbing again at this point.

[71] And she stops on a dime, completely stops, looks me in the eye, and says, I'll consider it with like a little smirk on her face.

[72] And I was like, what the hell?

[73] I still think about that moment and get chills because it was so eerie.

[74] I look up the closest hospital besides Brantford and I find that Cambridge is closest.

[75] It's about a half an hour away.

[76] That's doable.

[77] They said to her, what are they going to do if you show up to a hospital in labor?

[78] Are they going to look up your house and say, no, you have to go to the closest one to you?

[79] That's not how it works.

[80] You're going to show up in labor.

[81] They're going to triage you and admit you as a patient.

[82] So I eventually convinced her to go to Cambridge Hospital.

[83] Now, I am not supposed to drive clients in my car, but she couldn't figure out any other way to get there because the plan was that her mom was going to drive her to Brantford, but her mom is not allowed to drive her car.

[84] When the plan was to go to Brantford, it was five minutes around the corner.

[85] So they were like, we're just going to do it.

[86] But half an hour is a little bit much for someone to drive a car that isn't supposed to drive that car.

[87] I got the distinct feeling that her mom did not want me to be there.

[88] And I said as much to Caitlin at one point.

[89] I was like, I feel like your mom doesn't want me to be here.

[90] And Caitlin said, oh, she probably just wishes it was her in here with me. But I couldn't shake that feeling.

[91] I was like, something is off about this, but I can't pinpoint what it is.

[92] she has no other way to get there so I said okay well can I drive your car she said sure so I get at her car I start the car and her car won't start I don't know if the battery was dead or what but her car won't start so I just said forget it I'm driving you in my car there's no other way to get there we start driving to Cambridge and she is flipping out she is losing her mind tears are streaming down her face and she is begging me to take her home again she like willingly got in the car and she was fine but she is flipping out now and begging me to take her home and she says i'll have my baby at home please don't make me go to the hospital you can just drop me off at home and forget i exist please don't make me go to the hospital and i start crying at this point because i'm like i don't know what the right thing to do with here because as doulas we do not ever make people do things that they don't feel safe doing.

[93] So I pull over into a parking lot and I say, okay, I'm going to get out and call my husband.

[94] I get out of the car and I go and call my husband.

[95] I'm like, I don't know what to do here.

[96] He's like, I don't care what you do with her, but you're coming home.

[97] You've been gone since Monday.

[98] And I was like, okay, that's not helpful.

[99] But thank you for your input.

[100] I hang up with him and I call my mentor.

[101] My mentor says, okay, let me talk to her.

[102] I get back in the car.

[103] My mentor talks to her, convinces her to go to the hospital.

[104] My mentor also disclosed.

[105] some really personal stuff to Caitlin to help her feel comfortable going to the hospital.

[106] So she agrees to go to a hospital.

[107] We get there, I park my car, and she won't get out of my car.

[108] Eventually, I was like, I don't mind if you have to take a minute, but you have to do something with this time.

[109] You can't just sit here and stare at the windshield.

[110] Put on some birth affirmations.

[111] Put on some relaxing music.

[112] Take some deep breaths.

[113] Do something.

[114] But she wasn't doing anything.

[115] Eventually, I said, okay, if you don't get out of my car and go into that hospital, I'm going to get someone.

[116] So then she finally got out of the car.

[117] She's taking steps that are like a millimeter.

[118] She's inching her way to this hospital.

[119] All the while, she's feeling shaky, she's having contractions, she's kind of freaking out.

[120] We get inside the doors of the hospital, and she remembers that she has a appointment with her nurse practitioner the next day.

[121] and I know that that's true because she had the reminder card on her fridge and we had laughed at it and I had said you're going to want to cancel that.

[122] You're not making it.

[123] Her whole thing was that she didn't want anyone doing cervical checks.

[124] She didn't want anybody near her vagina.

[125] But she said, I'm comfortable with my nurse practitioner.

[126] She's done pap smears on me. Can I get her to check me and see if my water broke?

[127] And at this point, I'm like, okay, I feel like I just need to respect your choice.

[128] I talked to a couple other doulas just to make sure that I wasn't being outrageously reckless by letting her go home and wait another 12 hours or so to see if her water broke.

[129] I take her home and I said, okay, let me know what happens at your appointment and I'll come back when it's go time.

[130] She texts me the next day and says her water didn't break, which now looking back, I think is funny.

[131] That's probably the truest thing she said to me that whole time because her water really didn't break because she didn't have any water.

[132] So she goes to her sister's wedding on Friday.

[133] On Saturday, she texts me again saying that her contractions are like seven or eight minutes apart.

[134] I think she said eight minutes apart.

[135] I'm talking to her on the phone and she's freaking out.

[136] She's getting triggered by her contractions.

[137] I'm sending her voice notes with affirmations because that seems to work for her last time I was there.

[138] Basically, she's not doing great but i had said to her the next time i come i'd like to meet you at the hospital and she said that that was okay eventually i don't remember exactly how it happened this time but we decided that i was going to come and it was time for her to go to the hospital so i have my phone hooked up to my car on apple car play i call her while i'm driving and i say how are you getting to the hospital and she says oh i'm going to drive myself and i was like no you're not you're in labor you can't drive yourself to the hospital.

[139] She's like, no, it's okay.

[140] It'll be fine.

[141] And I was like, no, it's not.

[142] Like, you can't drive yourself?

[143] Can you call an Uber or a cab or something?

[144] And she says, no, I don't have the money for that.

[145] I can't afford it.

[146] I was like, okay, well, the only option here is that I drive you myself.

[147] So I go to her house again.

[148] And I pick her up.

[149] I go inside.

[150] And I was like, are you ready?

[151] And she was like, yeah, I'm ready.

[152] I remember actually saying, that's the first time I've heard you say that you're ready.

[153] She gets in my car again.

[154] And she's fine.

[155] Not freaking out.

[156] She's having contractions again.

[157] We're not timing them because I'm driving and she doesn't want to.

[158] So whatever.

[159] It's fine.

[160] You don't need to time them on your way to the hospital because you're all already going to the hospital.

[161] She tells me on the way there that she thinks her water broke.

[162] And I was like, okay, she's like, I'm so sorry about your seats in your car.

[163] And I was like, it's fine.

[164] I'm not that worried about it.

[165] We get to the hospital.

[166] hospital and she doesn't want to get out of my car.

[167] And instead of getting out, she opens the door and she turns around in the seat so that she's on her knees and hugging the back of the seat, which is honestly not a terrible position for labor, but that's not the thing to do right now.

[168] We need to go inside the hospital.

[169] She's sitting there and I look at her pants and I'm like, they're not wet.

[170] I don't think you're water broke.

[171] And she says, no, I'm wearing a pad.

[172] In my head, I was like, that's not how that works the pad is not going to make a difference i asked her when she was still in my car she made this weird face and i said are you feeling rectal pressure because rectal pressure means the baby is coming out right now and she says maybe and i said if you're feeling rectal pressure we need to book it inside the hospital she said i said maybe eventually i get her out of my car i keep saying to her this whole time a i'm not delivering your baby i'm not trained to do that b i am not delivering your baby on the grass outside the hospital.

[173] I am not delivering your baby on the bench outside the hospital.

[174] I am not delivering your baby on the sidewalk outside the hospital.

[175] We need to go inside.

[176] So again, she's moving at like a snail's pace.

[177] You know, when you ask a three -year -old to go brush their teeth and they really don't want to, she was walking slower than that.

[178] It was excruciating.

[179] At one point, she sits down on the bench outside the hospital.

[180] Again, I'm like, I'm not delivering your baby here.

[181] go inside.

[182] She keeps making these weird faces and weird movements.

[183] I asked her at one point, are you trying to hold your baby in?

[184] And she said, yes.

[185] And I said, okay, don't do that.

[186] Also, you can't.

[187] Let's go inside.

[188] And maybe this will end okay.

[189] And that's when she told me that her assault was by a nurse at Brantford Hospital.

[190] Because I was saying, the nurses, they're here to care for you.

[191] They are not going to want to hurt you.

[192] And she says, well, my assault was by a nurse from Brantford Hospital.

[193] We finally get inside the doors of labor and delivery at Cambridge Hospital.

[194] And I breathe a sigh of relief.

[195] I can do my job as a doula and help her feel safe and confident.

[196] I don't have to be the one who makes her feel like she needs to do something she doesn't want to do.

[197] I've got some support here at least.

[198] When we get inside, I look at the time and I realize it took us an hour to get inside.

[199] It was maybe a two -minute walk.

[200] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[201] She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

[202] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[203] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Aaron and John got into a lover's quarrel, en route to the next location.

[204] What happens next?

[205] Depends on who you ask.

[206] Was it a crime of passion?

[207] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[208] This was clearly an intentional act.

[209] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[210] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[211] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[212] Everyone had an opinion.

[213] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[214] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[215] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[216] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[217] Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[218] Scammers are best known for Lernery Plus.

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[228] We get inside.

[229] And she's shaking.

[230] So when you finally dilate to 10 centimeters, you often get really shaky.

[231] So she keeps asking me, am I shaky because I'm in transition?

[232] And I'm like, maybe.

[233] How many hours at this point would you say?

[234] I say it was about three days that I was with her in total.

[235] So again, this was overnight on Saturday.

[236] I'm losing another night of sleep.

[237] We get inside and they put the monitor on her.

[238] And I'm still questioning if this is even real.

[239] my job is to believe people and so outwardly I'm being very caring and trusting but in the back of my mind I'm like something is bullshit here so they put the fetal heart rate monitor on her and the contraction monitor on her she has a contraction on the monitor and I can see it and then they find a fetal heart rate and it's a perfect feel I'm sorry what yeah I know right A contraction?

[240] What?

[241] The contraction can be explained by her just tensing her muscles.

[242] All that monitor does is pick up tenseness, right?

[243] So she could have just contracted her abdominal muscles and it would have picked up a contraction.

[244] But the fetal heart rate is the one that is mind -blowing because it was a perfect fetal heart rate.

[245] A fetal heart rate should be between 110 and 160 or 170, depending on who you ask.

[246] And it was that.

[247] and it should be highly variable, so every couple seconds, the number will change.

[248] That's what they like to see.

[249] So it was doing that, and it looked really good.

[250] I'm not trained on these monitors, but nobody is giving any indication that anything is weird.

[251] At this point, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm such a jerk for not trusting her.

[252] Obviously, she's pregnant.

[253] Who would fake this?

[254] I'm berating myself in my head for not trusting her, right?

[255] Because I have proof of life.

[256] There's a fetal heart rate.

[257] I think back on that and I'm like, she is like the luckiest person in the world for that to have happened to her.

[258] The best explanation that I have gotten for that is that it was probably picking up her heart rate and an echo.

[259] I guess that could happen.

[260] Obviously, she couldn't fake a fetal heart rate.

[261] I'm just telling myself off for ever doubting her.

[262] We kind of just chill in triage for a little while.

[263] She does not have another contraction while we're in triage.

[264] The nurse comes in, they have shift change, I don't know exactly the timeline of that morning, but I know that we must have gotten there before 7 a .m. Because I remember shift change happening.

[265] And that happens at 7 a .m. The new nurse comes in, tries to find the fetal heart rate again because she had taken it off to go to the bathroom.

[266] New nurse tries to find the fetal heart rate and she can't find it.

[267] And I say to Caitlin, this does not mean that you're in danger.

[268] Sometimes they're just hard to find.

[269] This does not mean your baby is not healthy.

[270] These monitors are just really hard to use sometimes.

[271] At one point, she says to me, if nobody's in here by 8 .30, I'm leaving.

[272] I look at the time and it's 824.

[273] I was like, 9 o 'clock.

[274] She goes 8 .45, that's the compromise.

[275] I said, no, the compromise is 9 o 'clock.

[276] I don't want you to leave at all.

[277] I was like, okay, well, if you want to leave, you need to tell the nurse that.

[278] You need to press the call button to call the nurse in here and let her know that you want to leave.

[279] and she won't press the button, so I have to press the button for her.

[280] The nurse comes in and she's like, I'm feeling really anxious and I want to go home.

[281] And the nurse is like, well, if you're feeling anxious, you should stay here.

[282] And if you think you're water broke, then you should definitely stay.

[283] She goes, well, I don't really think my water broke.

[284] I think I was just feeling like a weird pressure.

[285] And the nurse looked at her weird, like, what the hell are you talking about?

[286] Which is also what I was thinking.

[287] And she says, I went to the bathroom and I realized that I wasn't wearing a pad so I would have been able to tell if my water broke.

[288] And I was kind of rolling my eyes internally at this point and really did not know what was happening or what was about to happen.

[289] Eventually, the OB comes in, gets her to sign a paper because she had imaging done in Hamilton three weeks prior.

[290] And the OB wants to see that imaging.

[291] The OB comes back with a bedside ultrasound machine.

[292] And as she's laying Caitlin's bed back, Caitlin says that she's nervous.

[293] And I thought that was really weird.

[294] I was like, why are you nervous?

[295] It's just an ultrasound.

[296] And so they do the ultrasound and there is no baby.

[297] The OB sits down on her bed and very tenderly says, Caitlin, I'm so sorry, but there is no pregnancy.

[298] The imaging that you had done in Hamilton three weeks ago also shows no pregnancy.

[299] My head is reeling.

[300] I have no idea what to make of this.

[301] And I know that hysterical pregnancies are a thing.

[302] So I felt like I had a choice to make.

[303] I could either be really compassionate to somebody who maybe doesn't deserve my compassion, or I could be a jerk to somebody who potentially is having a hysterical pregnancy and feels like they just lost a baby.

[304] So hysterical pregnancy would be, if you truly believe that you are pregnant, and in that case, your brain has convinced you that you are pregnant, then finding out that that's false would be absolutely devastated.

[305] But would it be rapid fire in hysterical pregnancy, you go through the pregnancy all the way to giving birth if you've never gotten an ultrasound.

[306] It's not something that you think that you're full term every three weeks.

[307] That's not how that works.

[308] That's where I was like, I have a choice.

[309] I could be really compassionate to somebody who's been lying to me, or I could be a jerk to somebody who potentially feels like they've just lost a baby.

[310] And so I made the choice that I could live with.

[311] I decided that I would offer my compassion.

[312] The OB offered to have social work or psychiatry come and talk to her and she refused.

[313] So basically, I drove her home and I offered to send her resources on dealing with loss, and she said no. She was very quiet, and I remember a single tear running down her face, and that's about it.

[314] The whole ride home, she barely said anything.

[315] The only thing she really said was, I'm so confused.

[316] And I said, okay, well, go inside and take care of yourself, have a shower, have a nap if you need to, and figure out what you're going to tell your mom.

[317] And I left her there.

[318] What did your mentor say when you told her?

[319] She was like, yeah, that's why I was wondering.

[320] She had mentioned it before.

[321] She had had a person in her church who had faked a pregnancy for like 18 months.

[322] So that's where she got the idea that Caitlin might not be being truthful.

[323] But again, I had already been convincing myself.

[324] So it was really easy for me to convince her that everything was right.

[325] I thought that I saw that baby changed position.

[326] her belly was shaped this way at one point and then we did a maneuver and then her belly was shaped a different way so I thought that I saw the baby move so I was like well that's pretty good proof I had called the police the day that I got home for a welfare check and they didn't want to do anything they were like well what do you mean what are you worried about I was like well she's clearly not in a very good state of mind because she's faking a pregnancy they were like well what do you mean she's not a good state of mind I was like, can you follow the thread of what I'm telling you?

[327] When did you learn about her scamming other doulas?

[328] I found out about the doula before me that day because I remembered Caitlin saying to me that she had had bad experiences with doulas in her area, in her words, shit -talking her.

[329] To each other, she said there was one doula who was shit -talking me to all the other doulas, so I can't find anybody who wants to work with me. So I get home and I was like, maybe she wasn't shit talking.

[330] Maybe she was telling other people that this person is not pregnant.

[331] So I went on Instagram and I found her.

[332] I found this other doula.

[333] I sent her a message and I said, do you know somebody by the name of Caitlin Braun?

[334] And she said, yes, I do.

[335] Why do you ask?

[336] And I said, well, I just got finished supporting her.

[337] And she said, I'd really rather talk about this on the phone.

[338] Can I give you a call?

[339] I was like, absolutely, I will never be done talking about this.

[340] Please call me right now.

[341] So she called me. We talk on the phone.

[342] And she was like, I'm so sorry if I came across kind of cold.

[343] I was worried that you were Caitlin because I had a really new profile.

[344] And I was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

[345] She basically told me that she had supported Caitlin in, I think it was in June.

[346] So two months prior, it was supposedly a stillbirth with her.

[347] this dula told me that katelyn had had imaging done the dula was not allowed in the room with her when she had the imaging done and i don't know if that was katelyn saying that or if that was the hospital saying that that the dula was not allowed in so this dula ended up calling the hospital because kaitland had told her that she was going to be induced later that day so the dula called the hospital and said do you have anybody named kately brawn scheduled for today and the hospital said not only do we not have her scheduled for today we don't have her scheduled ever the hospital said to her listen she needs help but it's not a dola she needs this dula basically read between the lines so when i was talking to her she said i've never gotten confirmation that she's not pregnant and i said okay well i can confirm for you that as of today she is absolutely not pregnant and she faked it for a total of three days with me. So that is not outrageous for you to think that she was faking it with you.

[348] Caitlin's best friend was involved in that one.

[349] We found out later that Caitlin's best friend was also duped through this.

[350] She fully believed that Caitlin had had a stillbirth in her home or had sort of labored through having a stillbirth at this friend's house.

[351] Wow.

[352] And to be clear, that friend is not Carissa.

[353] This is a completely separate friend.

[354] After that, I told all the doulas that I knew about her and told them her name.

[355] And if you get contacted by her, you're not available.

[356] A few months later, I believe it was October, actually.

[357] My mentor saw a post on a Facebook group from another Jula in Guelph, who had this client and it was kind of a weird story.

[358] and the alarm bells were going off.

[359] My mentor saw this post, and it was just a really weird story.

[360] So she said, can you please message me?

[361] I need to talk to you immediately.

[362] This dula messages my mentor and says what's going on.

[363] And as she's having this conversation with my mentor, she gets a FaceTime call from Caitlin.

[364] So she answers the FaceTime.

[365] She's on FaceTime with Caitlin, and the message pops up on the screen is her name Caitlin Braun from my mentor.

[366] and obviously her blood runs cold, right?

[367] She excuses herself from the phone call with Caitlin.

[368] I'll call you right back.

[369] I'm so sorry.

[370] I have to go for a moment.

[371] She messages my mentor and my mentor says, you need to talk to Shana.

[372] So she messages me. Caitlin's story to her was that she was 37 weeks pregnant and I said it hasn't been 37 weeks since I saw an ultrasound with no baby.

[373] I said I can't say for sure if she's pregnant or not at all, but I can tell you for absolutely.

[374] certain she is not 37 weeks.

[375] She cannot be 37 weeks.

[376] In August, I saw an ultrasound that had no baby, and I heard an OB tell her that there was no pregnancy.

[377] So she is absolutely lying to you.

[378] Do not support her.

[379] Caitlin actually paid her $700.

[380] She did not pay me, by the way.

[381] She sent me $30 to cover parking because I paid for parking.

[382] A lot of us offered our support for free because we just felt so bad for her story that I offered to do it for free.

[383] Some other doulas she had told them it was a stillbirth and they do lost support for free.

[384] I think that she figured out that she could get free support if she said it was a stillbirth.

[385] Most loss support doulas have been through loss and that's why they offer loss support.

[386] It's particularly sadistic.

[387] But she sent this doula $700.

[388] The dula sent it back because she said, I'm sorry after talking to other doulas, I cannot support you.

[389] And Caitlin sent back, oh, so because other doulas don't believe me, I'm not worthy of support, trying to be really manipulative.

[390] This doula was just like, forget it.

[391] I'm not part of this.

[392] She didn't even respond to that message.

[393] I think it might have been November.

[394] I started hearing about more and more people who had supported her.

[395] Somebody tagged me in a post on Facebook.

[396] One of my colleagues tagged me in a post on a doula group.

[397] with Caitlin's name.

[398] My colleague said, is this the person you supported?

[399] And the comments had been turned off on that post.

[400] So I just messaged the original poster.

[401] Like, I need to talk to you.

[402] The post basically said, do not support Caitlin Braun.

[403] She's not pregnant.

[404] And I was like, please talk to me about this.

[405] So I got added to a group chat very quickly.

[406] And under an hour, we had 12 people.

[407] And then people just kept coming.

[408] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[409] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[410] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[411] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[412] She's like, I can't.

[413] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[414] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[415] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[416] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[417] Well, you were holding something back intentionally.

[418] Yeah, yeah.

[419] Well, yeah.

[420] No, it's hysteria.

[421] It's all in your head.

[422] It's not physical.

[423] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[424] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[425] Or is it something else entirely?

[426] Something's wrong here.

[427] Something's not right.

[428] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[429] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[430] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[431] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[432] every couple days we would hear about somebody new and they would get added to the group chat and that was really hard hearing the other Dula's stories I was destroyed I ended up out of crisis center that week because it was re -traumatizing honestly I had never dealt with it and it was all coming back the fact that it has been so long that I have been trying to get her to stop They gave us the address to the Airbnb and it was five minutes from my house and I was not okay.

[433] The logic side of my brain was like, well, she doesn't know where you live.

[434] She knows that you live in London, but she doesn't know where.

[435] There's no way that she could have done that on purpose, but she was five minutes from my house.

[436] I do know that she has had victims in the states.

[437] Specifically, I know of at least one in Texas, I want to say.

[438] one in Florida who it was awful.

[439] Just because you're not in Canada doesn't mean that you're not a potential victim of hers.

[440] I know that she even contacted a funeral home in the UK who sent her money because she claimed she had a stillbirth.

[441] She claimed that the funeral homes in Canada charge money for stillbirth and this funeral home director in the UK was like, oh my god here's some money to pay for your stillborn baby to be buried and she's 24 years old is i know how do you get this way how do you get to this level this quickly i keep saying to people she didn't start with doulas she started with the people in her life there was a lot of other people in her life who have messaged various survivors a couple of us called the police again.

[442] One doula really got on the police's butt about it.

[443] And so they finally opened an investigation.

[444] I went for a police interview.

[445] It must have been January that I went.

[446] And again, nothing was happening.

[447] They weren't doing anything.

[448] I think it was a combination of like they just don't know what to do with this, but we just kept sending people to the cops.

[449] Every new person that we found out about, we said, you need to go to the police.

[450] Also, because she's a social worker, I reported her to the College of Social Workers.

[451] They took a statement and didn't do anything with it.

[452] And I would check every couple of weeks to see if she was still licensed as a social worker.

[453] And they never took her license.

[454] They never put her under review or anything until she got arrested.

[455] I kept sending doulas to them as well.

[456] And I eventually got an email saying, you can stop sending us doulas now.

[457] And I was like, well, she's still licensed.

[458] so I'm going to keep sending them to you.

[459] So the detectives did all the initial interviews.

[460] Yeah.

[461] And then basically was nothing happening?

[462] And that's why people started sharing on TikTok.

[463] Exactly.

[464] Nothing was happening.

[465] Amy, she posted on TikTok and it started getting traction.

[466] And I was like, actually, yeah, why not post on TikTok?

[467] So I think I posted the following day or maybe two days later.

[468] And my video started to get traction.

[469] Funny thing is, I accidentally.

[470] hashtag dogs of TikTok.

[471] So my video got on the wrong for you page.

[472] I meant to hashtag doulas of TikTok.

[473] That's where I kind of started to get traction because people were like seeing it because of my hashtag dogs of TikTok and being like, whoa, wait, what?

[474] Like what happened?

[475] And I did not sugarcoat anything in my video.

[476] I just said doulas, there is a birth fetishist running out of Brantford, Ontario.

[477] Her name is Caitlin Braun.

[478] Do not support her.

[479] A birth fetishist is somebody who basically has a fetish involving birth.

[480] So there's people who basically get off on birth videos.

[481] And we do as doulas occasionally get emails or messages from somebody who just wants remote support and they want you to like walk them through labor.

[482] Those are mostly harmless.

[483] You'll lose a couple hours, but you can brush it off.

[484] I can't say whether it's mostly men or women, but they pose as a woman in labor.

[485] It's not in person.

[486] You're not touching anyone.

[487] You're just saying, get your husband to stroke your back or something like that.

[488] We don't love that.

[489] Please don't do that.

[490] But it's not to this level.

[491] So the way that we kind of figured out that this was maybe a fetish for her is because of the way that she was amplifying with every new dula that we would find, they would say, like, I massaged her.

[492] Or with one person, the dula was massaging her while she was touching herself, basically.

[493] And when the dula was like, what are you doing?

[494] She was like, oh, I'm just checking for fluid.

[495] And the dula's like, you don't really need to check for that.

[496] You can feel it.

[497] With a couple people, she actually peed in front of them and said that it was her water, but it was clearly pee.

[498] just the way that she was ramping up made us feel like it was more sexual in nature than just somebody wanting a friend with some of the other doulas she became more overt with her sexuality if you will like i said one of the doulas was massaging her and she was touching herself with one of the other doulas she stripped completely naked and got into the bath and then pretended like she couldn't get out on her own, so the doula had to come and help her.

[499] But again, that's not consent because it was false pretenses.

[500] Actually, my mentor spoke with Caitlin on the phone at one point and said to her, before we even knew how far this had gone, my mentor said to her, you can pay people to come and cuddle you if you want intimacy.

[501] Then at least you can get consent.

[502] So even my time with her, it was actually clear that it was sexual in nature.

[503] It took me a while to figure that or to come to terms with that.

[504] I still have a hard time understanding what I went through as being a sexual thing for her.

[505] But I think that it was.

[506] I'm so incredibly sorry.

[507] Thank you.

[508] It's heartbreaking.

[509] It's bizarre.

[510] The hardest part, I think, at this point, is explaining it to people.

[511] because I can't just say she sexually assaulted me because that's not really what happened.

[512] But I also can't really say she scammed me or she defrauded me because that doesn't encompass the entirety of how I'm suffering.

[513] So it's really hard to explain to people.

[514] Even other doulas, we've posted and said like, this is a scam.

[515] And people are like, well, what's the scam?

[516] Well, she's not pregnant.

[517] They're like, yeah, but what is she scamming you out of?

[518] Intimacy and birth support and my time and my energy and my, emotions.

[519] She's putting people through psychological violence.

[520] Yeah.

[521] I have had to come to terms with the idea or the fact that she kept me at her home for three days.

[522] I did not feel like I could leave.

[523] Did you ever see any of the siblings or anyone else at the house?

[524] No, I didn't.

[525] It was just her and her mom.

[526] She has told some doulas when they've called her out because sometimes they figure it out sometimes they get a contact with another doula who's been through this, it always eventually falls apart and some of the doulas call her out on it.

[527] They're like, what the hell?

[528] And she's told a couple of them that she has suffered a stillbirth.

[529] She's gone through losing a pregnancy and she didn't have any support at the time.

[530] And she's like, so I just wanted to see what it would be like if I did have the support.

[531] Even sometimes when she's found out, she still tries to fake it.

[532] One doula called her out on it, and they were like, we've been on the phone for 10 minutes and you haven't had a contraction.

[533] And Caitlin was like, well, I'm not concentrating on it.

[534] And they were like, that's not how that works.

[535] Like, you don't have to concentrate on your contractions for them to come.

[536] This is not a will of the mind thing.

[537] Your body just does it.

[538] What do you recall about the day she was arrested and what the group's response was to that?

[539] I honestly don't remember a lot of it.

[540] I'm pretty sure I jumped up and down.

[541] because finally something was happening.

[542] She was finally somewhere that she couldn't victimize more doulas.

[543] I had been going through this for months.

[544] I had been trying to stop her.

[545] I went the route of trying to get the word out to doulas, and that wasn't working.

[546] She was still finding people.

[547] My mentor had tried to get her to get some mental health support, and that wasn't working.

[548] My mentor also spoke to her mother.

[549] other and that wasn't working.

[550] We tried this from all angles.

[551] And then finally we were like, nothing is working, nothing is happening.

[552] We got to go to TikTok.

[553] We posted on TikTok and then within a week, she was arrested.

[554] I just remember feeling relieved, honestly.

[555] I don't remember a lot of what happened in the group chat at that point, but I remember we were all relieved, I think, that something was finally happening.

[556] What have you heard since about the hearings that have taken place?

[557] Have you stayed up on it?

[558] She is in custody and I've been keeping up with the hearings and hopefully we will be finding out more soon.

[559] I'm really hoping that she pleads guilty because I do not want to go through a trial.

[560] But I guess everybody hopes that.

[561] But also, like, we have so much evidence.

[562] Everything that I learn, I'm like, how is there more?

[563] My hope through sharing the story is eventually she's going to get out of jail.

[564] And there's no doubt in my mind that she's going to try this again when she's free.

[565] I really just want people to know that she played on our compassion.

[566] She took the best of us and warped it and twisted it for her own ends.

[567] It's not because we didn't protect ourselves.

[568] It's not because we don't have good boundaries.

[569] It's not because we're bad at our jobs or anything like that.

[570] It's literally she found people who have a huge capacity for compassion and played on that.

[571] So my goal in sharing my story is to narrow her victim pool.

[572] I want every doula to know her face and know her name and to know that this is possible and to look for red flags.

[573] And maybe that means that she just becomes one of these weird people that we sometimes get messages from that are harmless, and that would be okay with me. I stopped offering pro bono support except to my friends because of this.

[574] She was my first client, right?

[575] She was supposed to be my first client, and so it's been really hard.

[576] I was fortunate in that three of my friends all got pregnant around the time that I became a doula.

[577] So I had a really easy start into my Dula career because I attended my friend's births.

[578] So far, it has not been triggering, which has been really good.

[579] I am worried.

[580] I have not labored with anybody at their home yet, and I am worried about my anxiety with that.

[581] So far, I've only been to hospital births.

[582] So it's been a completely different environment.

[583] I'm just so incredibly sorry.

[584] My heart goes out to everyone impacted.

[585] Thank you for what you have contributed and for being willing to share.

[586] I really just want to get at her victim pool and say you as a doula, first of all, your time is worth money, so charge money, because that will deter her probably quite a bit, but also just be aware that this person is doing this.

[587] And eventually in a few years, if you see her face or you get a message from somebody with her name you know that that's not real oh my gosh as you're literally saying this a message just came to me from our social media manager somebody else saying Caitlin was a girl that she was dating briefly when she conned another doula she accused me of sexual assault next time on something was wrong she said can I tell you something it's big but I don't want you to freak out and decide him too much I said you can tell me anything But that's where that flight kicked in So then I was like Okay I got to get out of here Caitlin sent her a text message Did I do something wrong So then I got a text From the detective With the Bramford police I need to speak with you She sent me a text And was just like We have a problem I was just like Am I hearing this person right And that's what I started to see the video I was sick to my stomach I said for the first time to a doula, you have to do what feels safe for you.

[588] After everything had come out, I really was like, my God, anything could have happened to me during that time.

[589] Thank you so much for listening.

[590] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[591] Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media Production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[592] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[593] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[594] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[595] Thank you so much.

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