Morning Wire XX
[0] America's first and most prestigious university has come under intense scrutiny amid reports of escalating anti -Semitism on campus, and after its now former president's widely criticized congressional testimony.
[1] Now, a group of Harvard students are suing the school for what they say is discrimination and a failure to protect Jewish students.
[2] In this episode, we talk with one of the students bringing the lawsuit about what drove them to file it and what they're hoping to achieve.
[3] I'm Daily Wire, editor -in -chief John Bickle with Georgia Howe.
[4] It's Saturday, January 20th, and this is an extra edition of Morning Wire.
[5] Joining us now is Shabos Kestimbaum, a graduate student at Harvard who has filed a lawsuit against the university, along with five other students.
[6] Shabos, thank you so much for joining us.
[7] First of all, give us some background on yourself and your relationship to Harvard.
[8] Sure.
[9] So I'm a second year Harvard graduate student.
[10] I study theology and public policy.
[11] What drew me to the university.
[12] university was its stellar academic reputation and the opportunities to really explore and engage intellectually.
[13] And then, of course, when I actually started at Harvard about two years ago, I realized quite quickly that it was really an institution that had serious and fundamental issues related to anti -Semitism.
[14] Right.
[15] And now you're one of six students suing the university for discrimination and a refusal to protect Jewish students.
[16] That's your claim.
[17] What did you experience on the campus after the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel?
[18] Sure.
[19] So I wouldn't even say what we experienced began after October 7th.
[20] A lot of it was before, and a lot of it was actually during October 7.
[21] We had 34 student groups as blood was being spilled, as the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust was ongoing.
[22] We had 34 student groups, in some cases, jump out of bed in their pajamas to draft an emergency.
[23] statement declaring that Jews are to be blamed for their own murder.
[24] And that's what began the series of unthinkable, constant, and incredibly difficult instances of antisemitism, where we felt that the university was not protecting us and where we felt our own classmates were engaged in anti -Semitism.
[25] So I'll just give you a couple of examples.
[26] We now have, as a normal reality, student yelling at us to globalize the Intifada on our way to classrooms.
[27] The Intifada, of course, was one of the most difficult periods for Jewish people since the Holocaust when buses and hospitals and nursing homes were blown up and innocent Jewish civilians were killed for no other crime than being Jewish.
[28] And so we have classmates who say that we need to globalize it.
[29] We need to do it again.
[30] We've had students yell free Palestine from the river to the sea, of course referencing the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, which, of course, encompasses all of Israel.
[31] Again, another call for Jewish genocide.
[32] We've had students post on social media that they proudly identify with Hamas or Hezbollah or the Houthis, proudly saying that if that's what makes them terrorists, then they're glad to be called terrorists.
[33] So it's really just been one instance after instance, one allegation after the next of pervasive and systemic anti -Semitism.
[34] And what's worse, is Harvard knew about this and knows about it and has done nothing to speak out and condemn this and tell Jewish students what they're going to do to protect them.
[35] Now, President Claudine Gay became really the focal point of the Harvard response, and for good reason, she was the president.
[36] She's now resigned after massive pressure.
[37] Why are you suing the school even after she's resigned?
[38] Sure.
[39] I've had people ask me, Gay is gone.
[40] You won?
[41] Why the lawsuit?
[42] And I think for anyone who reads the lawsuit, and I encourage everyone to do so, you walk away with the sense of this is much bigger than one person.
[43] These issues started before Claudine Gay, and unfortunately, unless Harvard does something about it, it will continue after Claudine Gay.
[44] So she was a great representation of the failures of Harvard to deal with anti -Semitism, but she is not the only representation of that.
[45] So Claudine Gay resigning is a step in the right direction.
[46] but it does not mean that the issue is over.
[47] And I would also add that Claudine Gay, when she resigned, did not say it was because of her failure to deal with anti -Semitism.
[48] In fact, she blamed these, quote, outside demagogues.
[49] She blamed conservative activists, sort of giving a nice wink for people to blame the Zionists and blame the Jews, as Harvard students already have on third -party platforms like Sychap, where Harvard students say that Jews are pedified, and baby killers that Jews are responsible for controlling the media and for ousting Clauding Gay.
[50] So it's not just about her, unfortunately.
[51] Her congressional testimony, obviously there was a lot of backlash, a lot of scrutiny to how she handled it.
[52] What was your response to President Gay and the MIT and UP and UPen President's testimony on anti -Semitism on campus?
[53] I was horrified, dumbfounded.
[54] I watched that testimony live, as did most Harvard Jewish students.
[55] And I did a double take.
[56] I thought to myself, there's no way that she said this.
[57] And I would also add it wasn't just that one infamous response of calls for Jewish genocide or context dependent.
[58] But she was asked questions like, can you guarantee the safety of incoming Jewish students?
[59] And she wouldn't say yes.
[60] I mean, it was, to call it a train wreck would be an understatement.
[61] And I actually found it incredibly frustrating that she was able to keep her job.
[62] Had she said that about any other minority group, she would have been fired within 24 hours.
[63] But of course, we have this Jewish exception, this double standard when it comes to Jewish people, that our lives are expendable or our lives can be contextualized.
[64] And her testimony was horrifying as a Jewish student to watch.
[65] And I would also add that it wasn't just Jewish students who were outraged.
[66] Many, many Harvard students and faculty and alum thought that this was really a bridge too far and just totally unacceptable for a leader of one of the most important universities to get away with.
[67] And she was able to get away with it for almost a month.
[68] Now, obviously, this lawsuit is something of a final step for you.
[69] But what actions did you take before that to try to get the university and the administration to take some action?
[70] Sure.
[71] So we went through all the proper channels beforehand.
[72] This lawsuit was a last resort.
[73] It's something we didn't want to do, but unfortunately it's something we had to do.
[74] So anytime there were instances of anti -Semitism, we immediately either filed reports or we contacted the anti -Semitism advisory group, President Gay herself, the dean of the respective Harvard School, TIE administrators and officers.
[75] So people were aware that this was happening.
[76] We made sure to keep a record of everything, so that we can say, look, we went to all of these people, we asked them for help, we asked them to intervene, and they simply didn't.
[77] And that's sort of what made this lawsuit unfortunately so needed, because the people and the institutions that were put in place to protect us failed every single time.
[78] As far as the claims in the lawsuit, you're making the case that there's a double standard held by Harvard in relation to Jewish students.
[79] What are some examples of that double standard on campus and in school policies?
[80] Yeah, so as explained in the lawsuit, all incoming students have mandatory Title IX training, this anti -discrimination training, and that includes the idea that fat phobia can be disciplinary action.
[81] It includes the idea that referring to someone by the wrong gender pronoun can be grounds for disciplinary action, if there's no training for anti -Semitism, yet there's no training for disciplinary actions for someone engaged in anti -Semitism.
[82] And we know that Harvard has a record, quite rightfully, I would say, of disciplining students engaged in other types of hatred and discrimination.
[83] So, for example, when a group of students or admitted students were engaged in racist posts on their private social media, Harvard rescinded their acceptances because they made a stand that racism is never tolerated.
[84] Last year, when there was a homophobic incident, within 24 hours, it was condemned and the student was expelled.
[85] When we have Jewish students who are facing anti -Semitism almost on a daily basis, there is no immediate condemnation, and there's certainly no disciplinary action.
[86] So I think the double standard is pretty obvious, and it's pretty out there in the open.
[87] Harvard has not really made any efforts to pretend otherwise.
[88] Now, in terms of the root of the discrimination, a lot of people are seeing this as stemming really in part from DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion programs.
[89] How does DEI play into this rise in anti -Semitism in your view?
[90] So DEI creates this binary system of oppressor and oppressed, and that's something that Harvard has really fed into this insidious ideology.
[91] So I'll give you a really good example.
[92] Marshall Gantz, who's a current professor at Harvard Kennedy School, was found to have discriminated against three or four Jewish students.
[93] And he was in direct violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act.
[94] And not only was he not disciplined, but he was actually given an award a couple of months later, and he's still on the faculty and he's still teaching.
[95] I don't see how that could have played out if he had found to have discriminated against any other minority group.
[96] But because this ideology of oppressor and oppressed has given Jews the unfortunate mischaracterization of whiteness, I think a lot of the overt anti -Semitism and the lack of action can probably be explained as due to this characterization of whiteness, of whiteness.
[97] It sort of acts as a subconscious justification or rationale that Jews are oppressors.
[98] Certainly Zionists and Israelis are oppressors.
[99] And therefore, we can sort of engage in actions and behaviors that would have otherwise been condemned.
[100] All right.
[101] Final question.
[102] What are you asking for in your lawsuit?
[103] What kind of damages or what do you hope to achieve in the end through this legal action?
[104] I think what we're trying to achieve is twofold.
[105] The first is immediate and practical, and that's tuition reimbursements.
[106] When we enrolled at Harvard, we engaged in a contract.
[107] We told Harvard that we would give them our tuition.
[108] In exchange, they would provide both in education and a minimal degree of protection and safety.
[109] And they've reneged on their end of the deal.
[110] We certainly have not had a proper education, considering that classes have been disrupted, that we have to be constantly looking over our shoulder as it pertains to anti -Semitism.
[111] And then anti -Semitism itself, they just have.
[112] have not created a safe environment for Jewish students.
[113] So that's the first part.
[114] And then the second part, which is more fundamental, perhaps, is to force Harvard to implement and enforce their own school policies, but also their obligations, their federal obligations under Title VI, which is something that, objectively speaking, they have yet to do.
[115] They have not enforced the laws already on the books.
[116] And that's what this lawsuit does.
[117] It forces Harvard to protect Jewish students and really all students by making sure that they follow through on the laws and policies that they have to enforce anyways.
[118] We didn't want to do this.
[119] We wanted Harvard to work with us.
[120] We wanted there to be a credible partner.
[121] And unfortunately, that just wasn't the case.
[122] They made it abundantly clear.
[123] Either they were unable or unwilling to engage in meaningful dialogue and perhaps more importantly, meaningful action.
[124] And that's why this lawsuit, unfortunately, was so necessary.
[125] Well, Shabos, thank you so much for talking with us, and we're certainly watching with interest to see how this case goes.
[126] Thanks again.
[127] Take care.
[128] That was Harvard graduate student Shabos Kestenbaum, and this has been an extra edition of Morning Wire.