Synced: Long End of the Stick

[0] So many mosquito bites.

[1] Are you getting some?

[2] So many.

[3] I'll put the trash and I'll come back with like 30 mosquito bites.

[4] It's awful.

[5] Didn't used to be like this year.

[6] Really?

[7] Yeah.

[8] It's like climate change.

[9] It's like three years, I think, of mosquitoes in L .A. Three years?

[10] I mean, it's like these cockroaches in my apartment.

[11] They put the little boxes with the poison so that they go poison their families and it feels wrong.

[12] Mine are little, which makes you think that it's better, but it's not the exterminators.

[13] were like those are German cockroaches.

[14] And apparently the German?

[15] German.

[16] They travel from Germany, I guess.

[17] They flew here?

[18] They flew here.

[19] Yeah.

[20] First class.

[21] It's not great.

[22] Let's talk about the elephant in the room.

[23] My date?

[24] What?

[25] No. No. I'm late.

[26] Oh, but you're always a little.

[27] I know.

[28] That's what I want to talk about.

[29] Exactly.

[30] I'm perpetually late now.

[31] I used to be so punctual.

[32] And what's is it the estrogen?

[33] I haven't started that yet.

[34] Okay.

[35] No, and it's not like it's new as of two weeks ago.

[36] It's like maybe a year -ish and some change old.

[37] I feel like the older I get, the less punctual I am.

[38] It's a weird identity shift.

[39] Does it feel empowering?

[40] I feel guilty because I know what it's like to be on the other side of it and have strong feelings about it.

[41] I've now dropped that feeling.

[42] Like when other people are late, I don't care because I just understand lateness in a new way.

[43] But I feel some guilt in case they feel like I use.

[44] used to feel.

[45] You know what I mean?

[46] Got it.

[47] I think 10 minutes is fine.

[48] I think more, though, consistently is bad.

[49] In my head, there's a 10 -minute grace period when you're coordinating and you're meeting anyone.

[50] If they're 10 minutes, that's fine.

[51] If they're 15, 20, I'm like, that's bad.

[52] Yeah.

[53] Unless there's a thing.

[54] This also makes me feel guilty.

[55] I'm not late if I have a meeting or something.

[56] It's if I know there's some leeway.

[57] Got it.

[58] So right now you know there's some leeway.

[59] Yeah.

[60] And what if you came in and we were like, then would you nobulate if there were consequences?

[61] The consequences are your passive aggressiveness?

[62] They're probably not.

[63] Like, I probably would just be like, well.

[64] Because you know that me and Rob, like, don't mind.

[65] It's not even that.

[66] It's not like, oh, this person won't mind.

[67] It's the situation.

[68] It's like this situation, it's not like I have to meet you right now because we only have 10 minutes and 10 minutes is it and that's that.

[69] It's like, oh, we have some time.

[70] We're chatting.

[71] Right.

[72] It feels more.

[73] cash even though it is work.

[74] But I think that, again, I don't want you to be late because then we'll start doing the thing where everyone comes late.

[75] Everyone comes late.

[76] Yeah.

[77] And then that's when it becomes dysfunctional.

[78] But I feel like you shouldn't be coming in with this, you know, stressful.

[79] Yes, energy because you're right.

[80] That's not the vibes.

[81] And I always leave like, I run because I'm always late too.

[82] But I can run.

[83] You can't run in your car.

[84] So far, AI has not got there yet.

[85] I don't know if I shouldn't learn how.

[86] drive.

[87] I think I have the long end of the stick.

[88] Is that what we say?

[89] Oh, yeah.

[90] I guess.

[91] Well, I've never heard that part of it.

[92] Short end of the stick.

[93] Yeah, so I figured I have the long one.

[94] What do we think that means?

[95] Like, if two people are holding a stick and they pull and break it and it's like which one?

[96] Like the bushbone and a turkey?

[97] Oh, is that what it's from?

[98] Why wouldn't they call it short end of the bone?

[99] I think that.

[100] That's better.

[101] I just love it.

[102] You know when you hang out with a person who's German, like my cockroaches, and they'll just say things a little bit off.

[103] I'm like, that's so much better.

[104] Yeah.

[105] So what's been going on the last couple days?

[106] I feel like a lot it's been going on with you.

[107] Well, I stopped drinking as of yesterday.

[108] Yeah, I was thinking about you last night.

[109] How has that been?

[110] It's been only one day.

[111] I was also hung over because the day before was my last day.

[112] Last day.

[113] What did you do on your last day of drinking?

[114] Drink.

[115] I mean, drank.

[116] Yeah.

[117] Actually, that much, but it was a little later.

[118] In the day?

[119] Yeah.

[120] And so because of that, I feel like I felt it more the next day.

[121] I normally like to be done by like seven.

[122] Is that why you were FaceTiming me at like 12 .30?

[123] Well, we were all texting.

[124] You were in bed and we talked for a long time.

[125] And I went to bed at like one 30.

[126] I'm like, this is late.

[127] It was late.

[128] So you'd been out?

[129] Yeah, I was at dinner.

[130] I mean, I got home at 10.

[131] Like it wasn't that.

[132] It's late for you.

[133] It's late for me. I like to be in bed.

[134] by eight.

[135] Eight?

[136] Not really.

[137] It depends, but kind of.

[138] Like, I do feel my sweet spot is a happy hour.

[139] It's like four o 'clock and then you're home by seven and you can make your dinner.

[140] Did you make your dinner?

[141] No, you went out for dinner.

[142] I went out for dinner.

[143] But it was delicious and I had a martini and I also had an espresso martini.

[144] It was a great last night.

[145] It was a great goodbye to summer.

[146] That's really how it felt.

[147] It felt like officially goodbye.

[148] I feel like you've been doing that every week for the last month ago.

[149] Yeah, I know.

[150] I know I have.

[151] What is this about?

[152] Are you afraid of fall?

[153] No, summer is just fun.

[154] It is.

[155] And I love fall.

[156] Actually, fall is my favorite season.

[157] I love it.

[158] I love all the activities and I love Halloween and fall dinners and pumpkin carvings and pumpkin patches and pumpkin candies.

[159] Yeah, candles.

[160] Candles for sure.

[161] Although I'm very particular about a pumpkin candle.

[162] Really?

[163] Yeah.

[164] Sometimes they smell way too sweet.

[165] When we're at Target waiting all that time, we smelled so many candles and I noticed that you didn't get any.

[166] I was like, look at this one.

[167] You're just supporting me, but not.

[168] Did they all smell bad to you?

[169] Yeah.

[170] My fall candle can't smell like pumpkin.

[171] It can smell spiced, but not sweet pumpkin, fake pumpkin, like canned pumpkin.

[172] That's what a lot of the candles are trying to do.

[173] do.

[174] Yeah, so detour real quick.

[175] Me and you went to Target because you had to pick up a prescription and I was picking you up.

[176] Yes.

[177] And the prescription wasn't ready.

[178] So it was fun because then I went in.

[179] I hadn't been to Target in a while.

[180] I love Target.

[181] Target, please sponsor us.

[182] Yeah.

[183] I mean, we go all the time.

[184] Liz goes, I go a lot.

[185] A lot.

[186] I spend a lot.

[187] I mean, I almost got sex trafficked because I go so much.

[188] What do you mean?

[189] Remember?

[190] No. What?

[191] That woman?

[192] Wait.

[193] Anna and Julia were talking about how they're sex trafficking people at Target.

[194] They start by having a conversation with them and say like, oh, I love your top.

[195] It's so cute.

[196] Like, oh, you should meet my friends.

[197] Like, you would really like them.

[198] They're really inspiring.

[199] And this is what this woman did to me. And I gave her my number and everything.

[200] Oh.

[201] But I didn't realize I was being said.

[202] Also, we don't have proof that that's what happened.

[203] We don't.

[204] It doesn't matter.

[205] Like, what is the benefit of giving your number to a straight?

[206] on the street.

[207] We had been talking for a while.

[208] And she was really nice.

[209] And she had just moved to the neighborhood.

[210] I'm putting that in quotation because I don't know if that's true now.

[211] But she was like, oh, I just moved here.

[212] I'm just buying stuff here.

[213] Like, you know, new things for my place.

[214] And she was just like really nice.

[215] And then I just, she was like, can I get your.

[216] And I was like, yeah.

[217] Look, in the last few weeks, you've made me reflect on a lot of things where, I mean, it's great because you're an amazing friend and you are my favorite kind because you're very kind but also challenging.

[218] Thank you for adding in the kind.

[219] That's not always true.

[220] No, it's true because you're not just like, you're not critical.

[221] I think you point out things.

[222] Well, I just want you to be safe.

[223] You scare me, Liz.

[224] You're in a category of people that do scare me a little.

[225] Oh, I think.

[226] Okay.

[227] Well, I'm just realizing this now.

[228] Okay.

[229] Because you are so trusting, which is a beautiful thing.

[230] so I don't want to squash it, but I do want to squash it a little bit.

[231] I mean, I have been reflecting on this and thinking about the way that I can become a little bit of a, not a target, but yes, a little bit.

[232] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, target.

[233] Target's a word of the day.

[234] Come on.

[235] Yes, I can become a little bit of a target, even at Target, because I give off that energy and then I don't protect myself, right?

[236] So, yeah, I was talking with another friend of mine where we had all these really weird common experiences of people getting, and particularly women.

[237] Like, it's never a guy.

[238] I mean, sometimes I've had guys also be creepy or whatever, but I've had recurring experiences of women, like a woman that worked at my gym and then like somehow got my number and then like would call me all the time or like this woman I met in Zambia that like literally calls me once a week.

[239] And at the beginning I would give her money and, you know, because she's in.

[240] Okay.

[241] I'm not savior or shit.

[242] You met her there.

[243] I met her there and I, you know, oh, you need to send your son to school.

[244] And then at a certain point I realized, oh, I'm just being, you know, taking advantage of probably.

[245] How do you know?

[246] You don't know.

[247] The thing, it's like hard.

[248] Anyway, I don't want to analyze all of those situations, but I did start.

[249] And again, maybe there are people who relate to this where you realize like, oh, I need to, yes, be open and kind.

[250] But I also need to have a radar of some sort, which I guess I didn't come with.

[251] Just a little bit of armor.

[252] A bit of armor, yes.

[253] So it's something I'm actually working on.

[254] Okay.

[255] Because of you.

[256] Yeah, but okay, just also no, because the reason we face -timed.

[257] Yeah.

[258] Well, we were face -timed because we were on a work chat and I was like, wait, we just needed chat.

[259] And then you were like, okay, don't be mad because I'm walking.

[260] And it was, as you said, like 1130.

[261] And I didn't yell at you then.

[262] I know, but that was an urgent situation.

[263] But why could you get it in the morning?

[264] I left my laptop outside on a package.

[265] Outside.

[266] Oh my God.

[267] Anyway, this is turning into like Liz needs brain medicine.

[268] But ding, ding, ding, ding.

[269] We were at the target.

[270] Getting my brain medicine.

[271] Yes.

[272] We were.

[273] But that's why we were there.

[274] But anyway, and then you couldn't end up getting it, which was so annoying.

[275] So frustrating.

[276] And another sidebar topic, people cannot get their medicine.

[277] Yes.

[278] It's complicated.

[279] And I just think of people who can't get to the pharmacy or their caretaker.

[280] Like, you have to have a certain kind of ID.

[281] And I didn't.

[282] I don't know.

[283] I don't drive.

[284] It's like a lot of barriers to.

[285] participating in this life.

[286] In L .A. Yes, because in your, it's like, oh, I'll just walk back, but it's like, but yes, we were at Target.

[287] You got the candles.

[288] No, I didn't.

[289] No, you're doing at the candles.

[290] You got little pumpkins.

[291] I did.

[292] Did you start decorating for the fall?

[293] I haven't done it yet.

[294] I was supposed to do it last weekend.

[295] I didn't.

[296] But this weekend, since I won't be drinking, maybe I can fill the day with decoration.

[297] So how are you approaching this?

[298] It's like cutting anything, cutting out coffee, cutting out sugar, right?

[299] You're like, wow, this thing that I think is not a big thing is a big part of my life.

[300] It's a huge part.

[301] And I'll just be super honest.

[302] Even in the 10 minutes we've been talking, I've thought about it.

[303] You like want wine right now?

[304] I want, not now.

[305] I want it later.

[306] And I know I can't have it.

[307] And it's like, oh, God, because we have kind of a short day.

[308] We did have a interview scheduled later for armchair and then we canceled it.

[309] So I have more time in the day than I expected.

[310] And that would have been exciting for an afternoon glass of wine and computer work.

[311] And I can't.

[312] And so you do start realizing how much brain power it is occupying.

[313] And that's scary, of course, is like, oh, my God, this thing does have such a hold of me, the habit.

[314] It's just, it's so habitual.

[315] It's habits.

[316] And so it doesn't take up that much brain space.

[317] It's just the automatic thing that you do.

[318] And suddenly you have to use, like, a different part of it.

[319] your brain.

[320] I'm like, okay, I can't just do the thing.

[321] So what else am I going to do?

[322] And I think that's really key.

[323] Again, with people who talk about, you know, behavioral change, like, you can't just say, I'm cutting coffee.

[324] And then I'm just going to raw dog my day.

[325] Like, it's like, no, replace it with another warm drink, something that is similar, but different.

[326] And then you do it for 21 days, I think.

[327] And then it's just a habit has been formed.

[328] That's what they say.

[329] So what are you going to replace it with?

[330] I feel like probably a lot of caffeine.

[331] And then that's probably not great.

[332] either.

[333] Although I don't have a caffeine issue.

[334] Well, now.

[335] I mean, what if I build one?

[336] Oh, my God.

[337] No, I thought about you this morning because we were walking on your birthday and you got a full matcha.

[338] I, we are such different drinkers.

[339] Like, I have to pace myself so that I don't finish my drink too quickly because I just want to drink it all.

[340] And you were not only like halfway done while we were walking away.

[341] You just like tossed it half of your macho latte.

[342] And I was like, what?

[343] You were like, did you not like it?

[344] Yeah.

[345] And I was like, no, I loved it.

[346] I only drink half.

[347] Yeah.

[348] I was like, I've never drank half of a lot of.

[349] I've never drank half of anything or even half of anything.

[350] I have the opposite impulse, but you have a lot of control.

[351] I don't know if this is just some sort of hereditary thing.

[352] For a long time, caffeine, I was essentially allergic to it.

[353] I could not have it.

[354] It would happen.

[355] So crazy on it, like almost drunk, really, like a little disoriented.

[356] I think really what was happening is I was really anxious.

[357] but it was manifesting in some, like, panicky ways that felt very physical for most of my life.

[358] Then I went to Europe, changed everything.

[359] Oh.

[360] And I had a lot of cappuccinos and stuff there when I went to London a couple years ago.

[361] And ever since then, I've been able to have it and it's been fine.

[362] It makes no sense.

[363] I love this, though.

[364] Look, it's my reality.

[365] You had coffee.

[366] Okay, anyway.

[367] I think theirs is different.

[368] I know, but then why can you drink the one year?

[369] It's not like you kept drinking European coffee.

[370] No, because it, like my sister.

[371] slowly got accustomed to it.

[372] It didn't feel so jarring, like American caffeine.

[373] But I got slowly accustomed.

[374] And I go to good places.

[375] We go to like basically European coffee places.

[376] Japanese.

[377] Otherworldly places.

[378] And so I can drink it now.

[379] But I don't have an addiction at all.

[380] There are days where I forget.

[381] Like I didn't have it yesterday.

[382] And I wasn't like, oh, God.

[383] I just forgot.

[384] I don't have the need for it other than like, it's fun to have a little cup of something.

[385] But I don't feel like a lot of people do, which is as soon as you wake up, like, I need it in my veins before I can even talk to people.

[386] That's, is that you?

[387] Oh my, I mean, but I quit.

[388] You've quit a lot and we should talk about that.

[389] You're also not drinking.

[390] I'm not drinking coffee and alcohol.

[391] Remember when I made that decision and then we had just recorded and we walked by all time and we both, you also said I'm not, because you thought you had Like killer cholesterol.

[392] I thought I had 400 triglycerics.

[393] And then we both looked at all time and we both looked at each other.

[394] We're like, do you want to go?

[395] Like, and we just, it was really hard.

[396] And at the beginning, I think that's what scared me actually is I was like, wait, why can I not do this?

[397] And I'm not like miss sober life.

[398] I kind of can't with that.

[399] That's fine that it worked for you.

[400] And I just think there's a weird trend going on right now where people push whatever worked for them onto other people.

[401] And as if it was the all and be all.

[402] Be all and all.

[403] That's the American way.

[404] I don't, maybe.

[405] No, I think that's the way also in Canada.

[406] But yeah, I feel like I bought into a lot of it where I'm like, oh, I'm doing this thing.

[407] And, you know, someone told me to do that thing.

[408] And then when it doesn't work, you end up blaming yourself.

[409] You end up being like, I didn't do it right.

[410] Or like, what's wrong with me that it's not working?

[411] And it worked so wonderfully for this other person when it's like, that's a 60 second social media about one moment when they're feeling good.

[412] Again, cool for them, but might not be for you.

[413] But that being said, I did get a little bit scared about how hard it was for me to not drink.

[414] And I will say the 21 -day thing, a little bit worked.

[415] Really?

[416] There were a bunch of times, especially the things that you're used to having a drink to do, like dates or end of the day where you don't want to eat a meal and you don't want to meet for coffee.

[417] You're like, what do I do?

[418] So I've been doing other things.

[419] What do you do?

[420] Go out and go see.

[421] a movie, like in the park, right?

[422] I did this, like, outside date.

[423] Or let's meet at a coffee shop.

[424] Let's have, like, treats.

[425] Like, that's when I've been doing, like, afternoon treats, like a little piece of cake with some tea.

[426] We're not just having, like, club soda.

[427] But we're actually enjoying, I mean, do whatever it works for you.

[428] But yeah, don't replace it with something that's disgusting.

[429] You don't, wait, do you hate club soda?

[430] Club soda on its own?

[431] Have we never talked about this?

[432] What?

[433] You don't like it?

[434] Is that a thing?

[435] People just drink.

[436] Like club soda on its own?

[437] How do you not know this?

[438] Is it on TikTok?

[439] The quoy, like all of...

[440] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[441] That's club soda.

[442] No, that's a...

[443] What is it?

[444] A salt flavored water.

[445] Club soda on its own is in that plastic bottle.

[446] That's great.

[447] You love club soda?

[448] I love club soda.

[449] But that's like what you use to get your stains out.

[450] It is what you use as a mixer, but on its own.

[451] I have 24 packs of club soda in my fridge right now.

[452] I love club soda.

[453] Oh, my God.

[454] God.

[455] Do you not?

[456] No. It's a stain remover.

[457] You drink stain remover.

[458] I don't.

[459] I'm kidding.

[460] I thought it was mainly just for mixers.

[461] No. I mean, I love Perrier.

[462] It's not the same.

[463] Also, it's flavor.

[464] You have such a more sophisticated palette.

[465] Because I would never be able to tell the difference.

[466] I mean, I guess I could because I drink so much salsa that I'd be able to.

[467] We should do a taste as that'd be funny.

[468] But also, lequart.

[469] I'm like, can you really taste?

[470] the, like, it's not even that much.

[471] It's not for me, by the way.

[472] I mean, I don't.

[473] If they want to sponsor us, we'll take it.

[474] Yes.

[475] What is at the core for you of drinking?

[476] What do you associate with it?

[477] Because it's not an addiction, but it has a use.

[478] It is.

[479] It's filling some sort of void for sure.

[480] Neat.

[481] Let's call it need.

[482] Because the void makes it sound negative.

[483] Like, there's something that it's bringing you in your life.

[484] And identifying and labeling that, I think, is hard, but really crucial.

[485] And then it allows you to come up with other things, right?

[486] Right.

[487] So, What does it mean to you when you think about that wine later?

[488] I very much associate it with being social.

[489] And I think a big part of it is the break in the day.

[490] Okay, work is now over.

[491] Although I say that, but then no. You were going to do computer work.

[492] Yeah.

[493] But it's more fun computer work.

[494] Exactly.

[495] I think that's what it is.

[496] It's like I have a lot to do all the time.

[497] And I could be doing work all the time.

[498] And in some ways, I should be doing work all the time.

[499] I shouldn't.

[500] But, like, there's stuff for me to do always.

[501] Yeah.

[502] So in my head, I guess I think, well, I'll compromise in my own brain and I'll do both.

[503] I'll do this work that obviously isn't the most fun thing, you know, like editing or whatever.

[504] But I'll have a glass of wine with it so that I've like eventized it.

[505] I've made it something to do.

[506] I made it something else other than just like, oh, I got to get through this.

[507] just to get through it to then have another one to do immediately.

[508] I think it just makes it feel less like I have so much to do forever.

[509] Right?

[510] I think.

[511] Yeah.

[512] Yeah, because like the idea of me doing computer work without it sounds rough.

[513] I mean, but it's also weird as not always.

[514] It's only at a certain hour in the day.

[515] Okay.

[516] That's great to know.

[517] Well, in the summer, sometimes it happened way earlier.

[518] Yeah, but summer.

[519] Right.

[520] I think that's also normal.

[521] Like, it's different.

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[559] I mean, there's two things that jump out to me. One is, again, time a day.

[560] And I think that's really interesting of how can you create a different ritual that breaks the day?

[561] And for me, weirdly, that's why I like working out in the evening.

[562] And especially during the pandemic, for me, anyways, I was working from home.

[563] So I was like, there needs to be some break and some ritual that is like, now it's over and now it's the fun time.

[564] And so I would go for a run or I would do this physical activity.

[565] And that was for me, like, it's over.

[566] And so I totally relate to that.

[567] And maybe there's something else.

[568] you could be doing that's what would be even more fun than wine.

[569] Not just replacing it with something that is equal to it, but what would be even better?

[570] I think could be really interesting.

[571] Martini's.

[572] No one.

[573] It's so drinking.

[574] But the other thing that jumps out to me, which I relate to as well, and when I cut out caffeine is when I really realized that.

[575] And I'm not saying this is it, but the first day that I did it, I was like, oh my God, I hate my work.

[576] I realized that that coffee in the morning was the thing that would allow, my God, I just stained myself with black tea on my white pants.

[577] Okay, but also, do you know tea has caffeine?

[578] I know.

[579] Oh, sorry.

[580] It has a lot of, wait, wait, really?

[581] Black tea, yeah.

[582] Not as much as coffee.

[583] No, no. No, but a fair amount.

[584] But it's like the tea with the most caffeine.

[585] Yeah, I know.

[586] Well, I just dip it in and I take it out.

[587] So it's just mainly coffee.

[588] Yes.

[589] Okay.

[590] Which still is a big deal to me because I was so hopped up on coffee that tea meant nothing to me. I was like, tea.

[591] is my enemy.

[592] Like, I was resentful.

[593] If I had to have teens to have coffee, I was like, it was definitely a total addiction.

[594] And the first day that I didn't drink coffee, I was like, oh my God, I don't like my job.

[595] Like, I don't like what I'm doing.

[596] And, of course, I do love my job and I love the work I'm doing.

[597] But I realized that I was using it to power through things that I didn't want to do.

[598] Yeah, of course.

[599] And I was modifying my mood with a substance in order to accomplish tasks or even be in social situations that I didn't want to be in.

[600] And so it's realizing, okay, if I can't modify my mood, or again, you can modify it in other ways, right?

[601] This won't sound fun at all, but music is a way.

[602] I'm sorry, there are like massages, right?

[603] Yeah, that I like.

[604] Like, there are things that do release more serotonin, more dopamine and oxytocin and give you a pleasant experience, which right now you're getting from wine.

[605] And anyway, and the last thing I'll say is just I always have work and like there's always something to do is something that you're using wine as the stopper when like you can be the stopper.

[606] And I relate because that's how I feel all the time.

[607] A lot of people do, especially in our generation of like you're never leaving work sometimes.

[608] Yeah, you carry your work around with you at all times.

[609] Exactly.

[610] And so I find that I use food too of like I'm going to give myself this food reward.

[611] And it's like, what if I just let myself not work that I don't have to use something as a marker, but that I can make that decision for myself.

[612] Does that ring true?

[613] It does.

[614] I think that's very astute.

[615] But there's a part of me that's like, well, then I stop working.

[616] And then what?

[617] Because I'm not going to go have a social thing.

[618] I can still have a social thing with you since you don't drink.

[619] But you like to go on hikes.

[620] We don't have to go on hikes.

[621] We can go on hikes.

[622] We can go see movies.

[623] I do wonder, I have a little bit of a fear of this.

[624] I wonder if my shopping's going to really skyrocket.

[625] I think for a second, and it will.

[626] I think so, too.

[627] I think, and I think that's okay.

[628] Me too.

[629] I'm excited.

[630] See, there's upsides.

[631] Don't be so hard on yourself and be like, okay, I have to do this thing perfectly.

[632] Like, then you might replace it with other things that you're like, oh, this doesn't totally work for me. What is the point?

[633] Okay, really?

[634] Yeah.

[635] Yeah.

[636] What is the point of life?

[637] If you are having any indulgence, I like those things.

[638] I like shopping.

[639] I like drinking.

[640] I like going to get a coffee.

[641] I like massages.

[642] I mean, massages is probably fine, but it's expensive.

[643] It is.

[644] Yeah.

[645] And I'm a very indulgent person.

[646] Yes.

[647] And I really like that about my life.

[648] I don't find that to have consequences, like as a whole.

[649] Although the drinking, maybe I said it here, I don't remember, but there's a reason.

[650] I didn't just say like, I think I should stop drinking now.

[651] I am starting estrogen in a week before I start the egg freezing and I'll be on the estrogen for however long, probably like eight -ish days and then I'll start shots and all of that.

[652] So I'm trying to do the right thing by knowing my own personal brain and anticipating that I will feel emotional on that estrogen and everything will feel very heightened and I'll be extra sensitive.

[653] And so I know the right think to do is to not add a depressant alcohol into the mix for me for that process.

[654] And since I have been drinking a lot or frequently, I would say, consistently all summer, I was like, I think I need to give myself a buffer even before I start this estrogen.

[655] So as of yesterday, that was day one for this week until I started.

[656] So there is this purpose around it.

[657] I'm not someone who's like, I just need to cut this out just because I need to be a healthier person.

[658] I don't feel that in general.

[659] But it's things like this.

[660] Like, I know I'll feel mentally better through this process if I'm not drinking, so I'm not going to drink.

[661] Of course, though, I had not thought things through at all when I planned my date of starting because yesterday I had some girls over for dinner.

[662] I was cooking and as soon as I went to the grocery store to start buying the stuff, I was like, oh no, this is such a bad idea to start today.

[663] This is part of it is we drink wine and it's so fun and I also like having a glass while I cook this like big meal and like it's part of the rituals, part of the whole thing.

[664] I will say being a little hungover helped because then I was like I shouldn't.

[665] But for the first 15 minutes of them being there, I was on edge.

[666] And I hated that.

[667] I was like, I can't believe that this is having this impact, that I'm actually a bit annoyed.

[668] And I'm with my favorite people.

[669] How can this be?

[670] And they were drinking as they should.

[671] It wasn't like I was seeing them drink.

[672] And I was like, oh, I really want to sip.

[673] It wasn't even that.

[674] It was just this environment.

[675] It's just sense memory.

[676] But I made it through.

[677] There's always going to be something.

[678] What do you mean?

[679] Because I was like, well, maybe I won't.

[680] Maybe I'll drink today.

[681] And I'll start this.

[682] tomorrow because today I have this thing.

[683] And then I was like, no, tomorrow then there'll be another thing.

[684] There will always be something.

[685] There will always be a reason for me to drink because I am social and I have a lot of social engagements and opportunities.

[686] And so it's always going to be there.

[687] It will.

[688] Just have to like make the decision and stick with it.

[689] Yes.

[690] And again, sticking to it will give you a positive feeling too, right?

[691] So there's negative feelings of I can't do the thing I want to do, and it's not giving me the feeling I want, you know, that I usually feel.

[692] There was this big study on, like, smokers and the people who were able to quit, they put these two groups in separated people.

[693] And the group that was more successful is the group that was told to focus on the positive parts of quitting.

[694] So like, oh, I'm breathing so much better.

[695] I have so much more energy or whatever.

[696] Exactly.

[697] But not just like, oh, I felt it, like reflecting on it.

[698] Yeah.

[699] Because your brain will spend more time thinking about negative things.

[700] It's 10 times more.

[701] Exactly.

[702] Your brain will think about it for longer and more quickly.

[703] So, recalling the positives, I think, is a big one, which again, I'm not sure there were that many from that night.

[704] Maybe like, oh, I didn't wake up hung over the next day.

[705] And I didn't feel worse afterwards.

[706] I think for me, that's a big one.

[707] It's like the way you talk about caffeine.

[708] I don't digest alcohol really well.

[709] So one drink is kind of fine, but two drinks, I don't feel well the next day.

[710] And so that part is really like, oh, I don't feel this weird anxiety.

[711] But also, isn't it interesting to get to also reflect on the discomfort?

[712] Those first few minutes, you're like, what is happening?

[713] Yeah.

[714] What happened in that moment?

[715] Okay, you wanted to get a glass of wine, but like, what was annoying?

[716] I think I was just annoyed that I couldn't have it.

[717] Couldn't have it.

[718] Okay, got it.

[719] Yeah, and that I had built this rule for myself arbitrarily.

[720] And then I was like, but I want it.

[721] Why can't I have it?

[722] I made this up to begin with.

[723] And you can justify your way out of absolutely anything.

[724] But it did remind me that last, no, a couple, two years ago, I think, wow, time.

[725] Oh my God.

[726] It's really insane.

[727] I stopped drinking for a con. couple months.

[728] And it was good and fine.

[729] I will say by the end of it, I wasn't like, I am better off without alcohol.

[730] I didn't feel that.

[731] But I was remembering yesterday how it felt when I first did it then too.

[732] And it was similar.

[733] Like I would have random almost panic feelings.

[734] Then there's a question of, does the drinking help with my anxiety?

[735] Or have I made it help with my anxiety or coupled those two together in a way that I wasn't even consciously doing, but maybe subconsciously was doing.

[736] Wow.

[737] Yeah.

[738] Because I was feeling a little anxious yesterday, too.

[739] I was like, oh, yeah, this is that thing.

[740] So it's all fascinating.

[741] I mean, it also could just be actual physical withdrawal.

[742] When your body is used to a thing and then you stop giving it.

[743] Not like in an extreme way, but in a small way.

[744] Sure.

[745] Do you drink every day?

[746] I mean, I think, okay.

[747] So that's part of it.

[748] Most, I mean, there are days off.

[749] But for the most part, in the last few months, yes.

[750] Right.

[751] Which is a lot.

[752] So it's good that all this is happening.

[753] It's good that I was sort of put in this position, I think, or put myself in a position to take a break.

[754] And we'll see how it goes.

[755] I probably have to get massages every day.

[756] I think that's going to be the new thing.

[757] Yeah, just be curious.

[758] I also don't want to like overthink everything.

[759] No, no, no, no. I'm not telling you to overthink.

[760] It's just when things come up.

[761] just be like, oh, that just came up.

[762] Don't analyze it.

[763] But just notice.

[764] Because again, this is an interesting moment.

[765] You're not doing it to quit drinking.

[766] Right.

[767] You're doing it for a different reason, but you get to see what happens.

[768] Exactly.

[769] And I think that'll be interesting.

[770] Have you noticed since you stopped when you go on dates?

[771] Is it awkward?

[772] It was at the beginning because I had that same thing at the beginning of the first few minutes of even being with people that I love or that I'm meeting up with and I'm not nervous about or whatever.

[773] I would have that like, oh, I can't take the edge off or whatever it is in that moment.

[774] But now it doesn't happen anymore so far.

[775] And to me, that's the positive benefit that's been exciting that I'm focused on.

[776] And I feel that same way where I'm not like, I'm never going to drink again.

[777] I love enjoying myself.

[778] I love having fun.

[779] But I'm realizing that it was an automatic behavior that I don't need anymore.

[780] Not I don't need anymore, but it makes me act differently, I think.

[781] When I can't modify my mood, because I do it a lot with a lot of different things.

[782] And if I have to modify my mood to be around this person.

[783] Maybe I don't want to be around this person.

[784] Yeah, that's true.

[785] You know, it's just, again, giving me a lot more to reflect on.

[786] So do you tell people before you're going on the date, I don't drink?

[787] Or do you get there?

[788] Do they order a drink and you just say, like, I'll have a sparkling water?

[789] Like, how does it play out when you're with someone on a date?

[790] It's obviously different when it's like a friend.

[791] But when you're on a date and you're not drinking, but you know they will or want to?

[792] How do you handle that?

[793] Well, I think the first thing is that, the date is going to be different, right?

[794] So I used to go out for a drink.

[795] And now it's like either go out to get food or, again, you do an activity.

[796] And so the sort of thing that I do will be a little bit different so that if we're eating, it's not as much of a big deal.

[797] And at the beginning, when I stopped drinking, it was for this health issue that I was trying to figure out.

[798] So I was very restricted in what I could eat and drink.

[799] I would just be like, sorry, like I can eat like four things and I can't drink, but like you go, you know.

[800] And that was the way in.

[801] And now it's so interesting because now I don't even think about how.

[802] I'm going to say it or I went on a date with someone who also didn't really drink.

[803] And so then we're just having food and we're enjoying it.

[804] That is easy, obviously.

[805] Yeah.

[806] But I think I wonder about dating when you know they do drink and probably have the expectation of drinking.

[807] Then it's this weird.

[808] Like, is it okay on a first date for them to drink and you not to?

[809] Yeah.

[810] I mean, it happened with a friend of mine that drinks a lot or we always get a drink and he's more of a drinker.

[811] And if you don't care, they don't care.

[812] And this person was like, oh my God, I can't believe you're like not.

[813] And we were out late.

[814] And again, I had a dessert.

[815] Like, I've just been having more dessert.

[816] Yeah.

[817] And this is a trick, though.

[818] This guy did this.

[819] He got there earlier and he got a drink that looked like a margarita.

[820] Like a motteal.

[821] Yes.

[822] And I remember I saw that he had a drink.

[823] And so I didn't really want a drink, but I ended up getting a drink.

[824] And then afterwards, I was like, oh, that when he ordered again, I was like, oh, wow, that was a non -acolic drink.

[825] And he didn't have to say anything about it.

[826] Right.

[827] And there was no conversation.

[828] So there was that, too.

[829] Order a fun drink.

[830] Yeah.

[831] Order a cool thing.

[832] But what about.

[833] Even just emotionally, if it's a first date, is it weird that one person is lubricated or altered a little bit and one's not?

[834] Does it make the whole thing complicated?

[835] I just feel like it's weird when people are on the exact same page.

[836] I kind of feel like either both people can't be drinking or both people are on a first maybe one through three date.

[837] I would imagine he's not going to slam beers if you're not drinking though.

[838] It's not even slamming beers.

[839] I was like, I know what it feels like to have like one glass of wine in my body.

[840] I'm not even close to drunk, but something else is happening internally for me than for the sober person in front of me. And that's fine.

[841] It's just interesting.

[842] Wondering how much am I really getting out of it?

[843] I don't know.

[844] These are such great questions because I did go on a day.

[845] This was a year ago when I was not trying to stop, but I was like exploring.

[846] And this guy did slam like four Whiskies or whatever.

[847] Oh, wow.

[848] And it was a great date, but then like, yeah, you kind of made out with me. And I was like, oh, my God, this is so.

[849] It was aggressive.

[850] Well, if I had had four whiskeys, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it.

[851] Exactly.

[852] But I was like, oh, wow, this is really different.

[853] And I will say it comes back to me sometimes being too trusting or too open where anyone is interesting to me after two drinks.

[854] If I look back at my dating history, I think that I went on second, third, fourth, fifth dates with people that because I was having two drinks, they were fun, I was wasn't noticing or as astutely aware of the things that weren't working out.

[855] And so one of the positive things that I've noticed is like, now I know.

[856] I just know.

[857] You know, there's no way to modify the experience.

[858] Like, I'm getting the full experience of this person.

[859] Right.

[860] And again, it's made me go on more walks, ice cream dates.

[861] That first date, you kind of don't want to be altered in many respects, which again, I don't want to poo poo drinking on dates.

[862] Like, I totally get it.

[863] You're nervous, you know, was out with Matina Carvel and this.

[864] Coval.

[865] Oh, I have a plaque there now.

[866] You do.

[867] Right when I stop drinking.

[868] Only for now.

[869] See, I have to go back to it eventually because of my plaque.

[870] You do.

[871] And also there's tater, there's tons of great stuff.

[872] That's true.

[873] But there was clearly this first date going on next to us.

[874] And this guy just dropped the whole drink, like spilled it.

[875] And you could just tell he was nervous.

[876] And I was like, oh, my God, I feel for it.

[877] It's so stressful.

[878] Near neurons, firing.

[879] So that's where I'm like, do something physical.

[880] See how you feel around this person.

[881] I think is a really, in some respects, better way to date anyways.

[882] Yeah.

[883] Maybe we could go to Target instead.

[884] Yes.

[885] That sounds like really, really fun date actually.

[886] That sounds so fun.

[887] You can learn a lot I know from someone at Target.

[888] Or Barnes & Noble, the date I want to go on.

[889] Yeah.

[890] But I'm proud of you.

[891] I think this is great that you're just open to the experience.

[892] Yeah.

[893] And you'll learn, you'll learn something.

[894] I will.

[895] And that's a gift.

[896] Yeah.

[897] Now, your date.

[898] You also went on a date.

[899] recently.

[900] I did.

[901] It did go on a date with a person I met on a plane.

[902] I feel like that's exciting.

[903] Yeah, that's a meet cute.

[904] Because anyone on a plane that's in your vicinity that's of your age group is immediately hotter.

[905] Oh, wow.

[906] Yeah, it's a thing.

[907] Like, if the person sitting next to you is, like, remotely attractive and of your age group, it's like we're soulmates.

[908] Wow.

[909] But we were next to each other.

[910] But I kind of felt like he was looking at me. And I was full mask because COVID is out again.

[911] And I've always worn.

[912] masks on planes because I get sick very easily.

[913] And so I was like, why is he looking at me?

[914] And then the plane lands and he's like helping this elderly couple get their bags out.

[915] And I was like, oh, I love him.

[916] And then, not like, no, but I just love him.

[917] I don't love him.

[918] See, this is, I'm not a little nuts.

[919] I immediately know, I'm like, oh, he's a good person.

[920] And maybe, again, it's too.

[921] That's very broad.

[922] One act of kindness doesn't mean people are good people.

[923] That's true.

[924] I'm sensitive to energies, and so I get very positive energies for people, but you're right that some people can be using that.

[925] I mean, they just weren't that elderly.

[926] It wasn't an obvious, like, let me help you.

[927] It was, like, he went out of his way.

[928] Anyway, that's a very important thing to me of just kindness and particularly, like, seeing other people and being tuned in to someone needs something or could be supported in a way, and I'm noticing and I'm going to just do it.

[929] And then he, like, is looking at me again, and I'm like, kind of looking at him.

[930] And then he goes, are you, Liz?

[931] I was like, yeah.

[932] Yeah.

[933] And he's like, oh, I listened to your podcast.

[934] He's like, I was in the Marines, another positive in my book.

[935] It's a new thing.

[936] I've never had a veteran.

[937] Wow.

[938] It's a lot of great benefits.

[939] See, again, you're like taking one piece.

[940] I mean like social security.

[941] Like, I just mean like, you have great health care.

[942] No, no. I mean like if you marry a veteran.

[943] Anyway, not benefits in that way.

[944] So anyway, and then we start talking and we're like LAX is a, you know, nightmare of 20 million things you need to do in order just get to the Uber place.

[945] And so then you was.

[946] I was like, oh, can I get your, but it was very, like, professional.

[947] And I couldn't tell how old he was.

[948] I was like, is he 20?

[949] Like, and again, it was very like, I love the work you're doing.

[950] And he was like, oh, can I have your email to like whatever?

[951] And I was like, yeah, yeah, like, sure.

[952] Like, what?

[953] The amount of times you give out your personal information.

[954] So we end up meeting up.

[955] I was like, let's get coffee.

[956] Because again, I don't want to assume.

[957] And I, like, he writes about masculinity and like wanted, send me his writing.

[958] And so I was like, oh, this will just be like a cool little meeting.

[959] But then we like talked for like five hours.

[960] And then I forgot my laptop.

[961] And I had to leave my, yeah, in my pajamas at 1130 to go get it.

[962] And that was my date.

[963] I don't know.

[964] I just, I like meeting people in public.

[965] Real life meets.

[966] Yeah, not looking down on your phone all the time and just being like available to potential connections is kind of fun.

[967] Did you read that article about that scammer in New York?

[968] His name, let me look it up because it was fascinating.

[969] It's like an Anna Delvey type situation.

[970] Like the Tinder swindler?

[971] He's kind of a Tinder Swindler type.

[972] So he was this big entrepreneur investor, big New York guy, hanging out at all the clubs.

[973] And then it was a complete fraud, had no money.

[974] Somehow got the most expensive apartment in New York, but then didn't have any money.

[975] Let me find it.

[976] And he was just dating women, pretending to be rich.

[977] He was dating women.

[978] Pretending to be rich.

[979] Kind of interesting.

[980] He's from the Orthodox community.

[981] And apparently, apparently.

[982] Apparently, it's like a thing that happens in super religious communities.

[983] It can happen where there's like this percentage that like has to let off some steam and they do it in kind of this altered persona way.

[984] Wow.

[985] Oh, his name's Kyle Deschanel.

[986] Did you date him?

[987] No. Yeah, we went on a few dates.

[988] I don't know he's a big New York guy.

[989] De Chanel.

[990] Yeah, Kyle Rothschild Deschanel.

[991] Is he cute?

[992] Isn't Rothschild a very?

[993] It sounds it.

[994] But that wasn't his.

[995] his real name.

[996] Okay, so this isn't Vanity Fair.

[997] It's called Kyle Deschanel the Rothschild who wasn't.

[998] It's worth reading.

[999] It's bizarre.

[1000] It's so bizarre.

[1001] I'm bringing this up to say that I see the guy on the plane as this person.

[1002] Always.

[1003] You know?

[1004] Wow.

[1005] Yeah.

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[1007] I love DoorDash.

[1008] I use DoorDash.

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[1025] See, I, okay, this is what's wrong with my brain.

[1026] Well, no, that's also wrong.

[1027] What I'm doing is wrong too.

[1028] Right.

[1029] We're on opposite ends of a spectrum and we need to find equilibrium.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] I haven't been doing this as much because I'm more chill now, but I used to walk in a coffee and be like, where is he?

[1032] I would think my soulmate is here.

[1033] Like, who is it?

[1034] I realized that that was not the energy and also it's like a weird behavior to have and a weird attitude to have, right?

[1035] That I should be looking or like expecting or on the look at.

[1036] when it's like, no. It also just feels exhausting.

[1037] It is.

[1038] And so I'm not that way as much, but when someone comes up to me or when I meet someone new, I assume that they're great.

[1039] And then if they prove me wrong, then eventually I'll think, okay, I don't really like them.

[1040] But even in the past, if they help someone with a whatever, then they'll do something weird.

[1041] I'm like, oh, that's not them.

[1042] They did this thing.

[1043] And I'll overly focus on that positive thing in my mind.

[1044] And that is something that I've been also working on.

[1045] But that's so funny, you assume that they're a murderer.

[1046] Oh, yeah.

[1047] It's definitely the opposite.

[1048] It's not a murder, but I definitely imagine everyone to be bad, I guess.

[1049] And then they have to prove to be good as opposed to you.

[1050] It is interesting.

[1051] We are so different.

[1052] I'm so far on the opposite side of this that a couple of days ago, I was walking home from a restaurant very close by.

[1053] So it felt fine to walk.

[1054] It was 9 .30.

[1055] And it was dark, but it was fine.

[1056] I was almost home, and I saw this man approaching, like walking towards me, but seemingly passed me. And I got this feeling, but I was like, just keep walking.

[1057] And he said, hey, I just kind of snapped my head around.

[1058] And he was like, I'm, and I forget his name, but he said his name.

[1059] I'm blah, blah, blah.

[1060] What's your name?

[1061] And I said it, which I also could not believe I said.

[1062] But I was like panicked.

[1063] I wanted to get out of the situation.

[1064] It was so.

[1065] uncomfortable.

[1066] It was dark.

[1067] Was he cute?

[1068] Liz, this is my whole, like, that shouldn't matter.

[1069] At 9 .30 at night, a strange man. Okay.

[1070] You have to have a little more guard rails up, even if, let's say they were cute.

[1071] They can still be bad.

[1072] Okay.

[1073] Ted Bundy was notoriously, like, hot.

[1074] Okay.

[1075] Seriously.

[1076] Okay.

[1077] But 9 .30.

[1078] If it's, yeah, 3 a .m. It's not about the time.

[1079] It's about how visible people are.

[1080] It's not like at 9 .30.

[1081] at night in L .A. on the street we were on.

[1082] People are out.

[1083] So he says, I see around the neighborhood a lot.

[1084] I looked like, um, and he said, oh, do you need to go?

[1085] And I was like, yeah, I have to go.

[1086] And I just walked off.

[1087] And I'm sure he was a perfectly harmless person and like totally fine and nice and whatever.

[1088] But I have no regrets about that situation.

[1089] I really don't.

[1090] First of all, any man, don't stop a woman at 9 .30 on the street if she's by or.

[1091] yourself?

[1092] No. I don't know.

[1093] I think we have a different understanding of 930.

[1094] And again, maybe it's, I'm kind of new to the city, but 930 to me is not, yeah, if it's 1 a .m. or 3am or like very late, okay, maybe don't just Acosta person just for fun.

[1095] But a 930 doesn't feel that late to me. But it's not about late.

[1096] It's about what is around and how people are not out at 930 in L .A. in this part of town.

[1097] Okay.

[1098] They're not.

[1099] Okay.

[1100] If we're on West Hollywood where everything's all lit up and it's a main street, this isn't that.

[1101] Okay.

[1102] So if it was light outside.

[1103] If we were by the restaurant, that's a different thing.

[1104] There are people.

[1105] Okay.

[1106] You cannot talk to a woman by herself in an area that's remote in dark.

[1107] What do you think?

[1108] I'm in between.

[1109] I know what street you're on.

[1110] So it feels a little weirder than if you were walking up like Hillhurst and someone in it.

[1111] That's what I mean.

[1112] That's by the restaurant.

[1113] and there's shops and stuff there.

[1114] That does feel different.

[1115] There are cars, there are people.

[1116] It's a different situation.

[1117] But there's so many cars.

[1118] Isn't there constant traffic?

[1119] Depends if there's a show at the Greek or not.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] No, the street is residential.

[1122] I don't think that was the best time for him to have done that to someone walking by themselves.

[1123] A small woman.

[1124] Dark at night.

[1125] It's not funny.

[1126] I'm serious.

[1127] You have to take that into consideration.

[1128] that women walking this earth is different than stopping a man walking around.

[1129] And I know you don't necessarily connect with that, which I find that really interesting as like you, Liz, someone who knows a ton about assault, assault, for real.

[1130] And you have to treat women differently in those situations and just their sense of safety is different.

[1131] And the chances are much higher for us of getting assaulted.

[1132] So of course we're going to walk through life that way.

[1133] And there has to be a recognition on the other side to not put women in the position to feel scared.

[1134] Even if you're fine, why stop me at 9 .31?

[1135] I'm by myself.

[1136] Obviously, like, walking fast.

[1137] No. Yeah, I agree with you there.

[1138] But I also don't think he was necessarily bad.

[1139] I've said that and I'm sticking to that.

[1140] He's not bad.

[1141] I think he's a perfectly fine, normal person.

[1142] But do not do that.

[1143] Don't put women in a situation to feel on alert or have a heightened arousal state.

[1144] I mean, I've never done like a self -defense class, but a big part of self -defense is you're going to learn the physical way of defending yourself.

[1145] But the first thing you have to also do is show that you're not an easy victim.

[1146] And so they usually will have you literally yell in front of a mirror and be like, no, like yelling and really being assertive in that power of like you're not going to, I will not go down easy.

[1147] And I guess that that is more the energy that I walk around with, meaning that like I have probably too much confidence.

[1148] which, again, I've been in situations where I have gotten involved and some guy did something and I got into a situation that could have been dangerous, but because I stood up for myself and I probably should have just kept walking.

[1149] But it works.

[1150] Nothing has ever happened to me in public in that way because I think that I do walk around with a lot of confidence.

[1151] I don't think I'm a target.

[1152] I mean, just before I say I'm a target emotionally, I don't think I'm a target physically.

[1153] I don't know that that's fair to people who've been assaulted.

[1154] Yes.

[1155] Because I don't know that it's fair to say like some people are easy target.

[1156] No, no, no, I don't mean to say it hasn't happened to me because I'm not an easy target.

[1157] Sorry.

[1158] No, no. I guess this is just my entire point.

[1159] It's just like don't put women in a position to feel like they might be a target.

[1160] They might not be a target.

[1161] I'm just using him as an example.

[1162] I do think men walk around not understanding that fear.

[1163] And why should they?

[1164] Especially him.

[1165] He was a tall, physical man. He's not thinking, oh, she's scared.

[1166] But I want men to start thinking that way is sort of my point.

[1167] Like, I want them to think.

[1168] oh, what would this person be feeling?

[1169] This isn't the time for me to stop this woman on the street by herself.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] And I guess my point is just I want women to be walking around not out of fear all the time.

[1172] I think that's also where I'm coming from.

[1173] Because I remember being very young and taking the city, the bus and seeing this little ad, like I was like nine or ten.

[1174] And it said like, if you're a woman, you can get dropped off between stops.

[1175] And I remember as a child being like, why?

[1176] Oh, because, and then I remember, like, coming to the conclusion of, like, oh, it's unsafe for women.

[1177] Why do we have to do that in our society, right?

[1178] And it's that.

[1179] I don't want to walk around thinking about how I'm weak.

[1180] I don't want to pay attention to that too much, even though, obviously, we live in a patriarchy where there are these power dynamics.

[1181] But I want to walk around from a position of power and a position of, like, I have a right to be out at night just as much as a man. And it is not fair that I'm constrained, right?

[1182] Like, I think that's my big thing about not going out at night is I'm like, that's my free.

[1183] them.

[1184] Like, why can men be out at night and not me?

[1185] Yeah, I understand that.

[1186] Yes.

[1187] And I am aware that then that also doesn't protect me in any way from anything happening.

[1188] But I think I'm sort of resistant to it because I'm like, no, I don't.

[1189] It's definitely not fair.

[1190] And I think it's unjust.

[1191] Maybe I should just learn Jiu -Jitsu.

[1192] But even still, even if I feel completely like I could take anyone at any time, I stand by my point of just understand the position that women are in and take that into consider.

[1193] Sure.

[1194] And I think that's a good thing, all of us, right?

[1195] Being aware of your actions, right?

[1196] I think is a really important thing that makes us better people and community.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] Okay.

[1199] Moving into some questions, I do want to bring up something.

[1200] Okay.

[1201] So last week, we had a question, a really interesting question.

[1202] A woman wrote in, she said that her husband had an affair with her sister many years ago.

[1203] And her and her husband have reconciled and are doing well.

[1204] And the question was, was, do I tell my adult children what happened?

[1205] And so we talked this out and we essentially said we don't think so.

[1206] I still stand by that advice, but of course, two days later, we had a guest on armchair.

[1207] This guest is coming up.

[1208] She basically told a story that revolved around a family secret that then she found out as an adult.

[1209] And she was so happy to have found out.

[1210] And she always felt like, I know there's something.

[1211] There's some distance between my family and I, and I don't know what it is.

[1212] I always felt like I don't belong necessarily.

[1213] So for her, it was this huge sense of identity and, like, freedom and allowed her to have all this self -expression she hadn't had before.

[1214] Like, changed her whole life in a positive way.

[1215] And I was sitting there thinking, like, oh, no, like, did we get it wrong?

[1216] I still think this is a very dependent on each individual person.

[1217] and relationship.

[1218] I stand by what I said about I would not want to know.

[1219] Me too.

[1220] But I just wanted to say that.

[1221] There are circumstances where people feel so liberated when they hear that family secret.

[1222] It could be the case in this situation too, especially if it's like, why don't we ever see our aunt?

[1223] And then they get some sort of washed over version of why.

[1224] And then later they do find out And they might feel like, I knew there was something and I asked and I didn't find out.

[1225] It's tricky.

[1226] But also, I still stand by.

[1227] I don't think parents necessarily owe their children every single piece of information.

[1228] Children don't owe their parents every single.

[1229] We don't owe each other every single piece of information.

[1230] Yeah, we don't.

[1231] It's more complicated, I think.

[1232] I mean, we knew it was complicated even when we talked about it.

[1233] But then it made me feel like, I just wanted to address it again to say that's an extra complicated one.

[1234] it's really personal.

[1235] It is.

[1236] One daughter might be happy and the other one might be sad.

[1237] And can I tell you how I think about our listeners questions so much throughout the week.

[1238] The same thing happens to me where like the one about the boy, like, you know, we don't like her new boyfriend.

[1239] Like, you know, we don't like her new boyfriend.

[1240] Like, I've thought about it and then things will happen during the week.

[1241] And I'm like, oh, like, I love these questions so much.

[1242] And thank you so much for sending them because we don't just think about them when we read them.

[1243] They stay with us.

[1244] Yes.

[1245] And they really make us things.

[1246] And I think hopefully they stay with a lot of our listeners.

[1247] I've heard that from a few people.

[1248] of, oh, that one question.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] Thank you to the Sink Squad.

[1251] Yes.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] Let's do a couple.

[1254] Oh, my God.

[1255] Oh, my God.

[1256] One of the questions.

[1257] How to be on time.

[1258] Oh, wow.

[1259] Did Rape put that in?

[1260] Yeah, probably.

[1261] Passive aggressive.

[1262] Well, I want to give a little context on that because Dax and I have had a lot of fights about this, which is why I've now come to this newer conclusion in life that it's okay.

[1263] to be late because for a long time, especially at the beginning of us working together, he would be late and I took it so personally.

[1264] Yeah, I remember I think I've always identified you as someone who, because of maybe those episodes, like, where I was like, oh, it's really important to be on time.

[1265] Because we talked about it a lot back then.

[1266] That is true.

[1267] And he was kind of like, it's not personal.

[1268] It's the, you know, I have this in the morning and this.

[1269] And I was always like, but you can add time in to prioritize my existence, basically.

[1270] Or like, it makes it feel like I'm secondary or I'm not as important.

[1271] And he basically was just like, that's not true.

[1272] That's not what's happening in my brain.

[1273] And it took me a long time to feel it.

[1274] And then when I did, I was like, oh yeah, that's true.

[1275] And then I do it now.

[1276] I understand what he means where it's really not that.

[1277] But him and I have gone through so many back and forths on this.

[1278] And I've sort of landed on I believe him.

[1279] I believe it's not a sense of I'm better than you, so I'm coming late.

[1280] Right.

[1281] Or that you're not how I internalize it or you're not important.

[1282] I think that's how most people perceive it that way.

[1283] If someone's late, we take everything personally.

[1284] We make it about ourselves.

[1285] But there's a thing of like, why is your time more important than mine?

[1286] Totally.

[1287] But then once you've done it a couple times, you do recognize like, oh, it's really not that.

[1288] It's really that I just like, I'm going to be a worse person if I don't sleep for an extra eight minutes, like for this person or for this meeting or whatever.

[1289] I don't know.

[1290] It's, it's, okay.

[1291] So the question, because you will have better answers than me, probably.

[1292] I'm like two.

[1293] I mean, this is from Vanessa.

[1294] No matter what my good intentions are, I fail every day at being on time.

[1295] Anywhere from one to six minutes late.

[1296] You obviously care if she's monitoring the time, you know?

[1297] I promise I care and value people's time, but it's a bad habit that I'd like to break.

[1298] Any advice on this topic would be super appreciated, especially with navigating L .A. traffic.

[1299] Oh, L .A. traffic adds such a wrench, because you really do never.

[1300] know.

[1301] I hate it.

[1302] You never know how long you'll be sitting in your car, even on a four -minute drive.

[1303] It might take 11 minutes one day.

[1304] What are your, I mean, I have thoughts.

[1305] First of all, one to six minutes late is not late.

[1306] Even if it's every time, I think that's fine.

[1307] Five minutes is okay, unless it's a five -minute meeting.

[1308] Like, I think grace periods for everything.

[1309] L .A., particularly, I think there's a bigger grace period, again, having lived in New York and in L .A. In New York, it's easier to kind of know.

[1310] If there is crazy traffic, you can get on the subway.

[1311] You can get on the city back.

[1312] Right.

[1313] There's different ways of trying to make it work.

[1314] Whereas in LA, I agree.

[1315] It's very unpredictable.

[1316] And so I am much more understanding and sort of have a different perception of people's arrival times in LA than I do in New York.

[1317] And the third thing is, as a person who I run late because I'm overly optimistic about, and I think again, that's a positive way of framing it.

[1318] And I think that's better for behavioral change.

[1319] I was overly optimistic about what I could accomplish in a certain amount of time.

[1320] And so one thing that I started doing was I give myself an hour to get anywhere.

[1321] It's kind of a rule.

[1322] In New York, it's half an hour and often it will take me less time to get from one place to the other.

[1323] And in L .A., it's an hour.

[1324] If I have a meeting or I have a thing, I have an hour to get there.

[1325] And so then I'll end up having that grace period for myself or I'll realize, oh, I don't really need to leave.

[1326] I'll have 10 more minutes or I'll just get there early.

[1327] And I had an ex -boyfriend that was really good about, He was like, I get everywhere 15 minutes early.

[1328] That's in theory great.

[1329] She's obviously tried to do that and it's not working.

[1330] So are there practical tools for being on time?

[1331] What's a time management?

[1332] You don't have less time than other people.

[1333] You're just not managing your time in the right way, right?

[1334] For sure.

[1335] And so I, again, in my calendar would create time for travel, for getting from one place to another.

[1336] I started managing the time that it would take me and really putting a lot of thought into it rather than just kind of letting it up to not chance, but it wasn't working when I wasn't really managing it.

[1337] Maybe you set an alarm for 10 minutes early.

[1338] Like, if you have to leave at 945, you know leaving at 945 is actually like a good amount of time.

[1339] At 940 or 938, you set an alarm so that there's like a sound reminder that actually might just put you into a gear of like, oh, fuck, I got a hurry, I got a hurry.

[1340] and then by the time you walk out is probably $9 .45.

[1341] Like having an actual sound or something because I totally get of like, I'm good on time, I'm good on time.

[1342] Okay, I'm going to do my makeup or whatever.

[1343] And okay, I'm still good.

[1344] So I'm just going to go run and get this coffee.

[1345] And then all of a sudden, you're late.

[1346] Right.

[1347] Maybe try the alarm system.

[1348] I'll try it too.

[1349] Yeah, I guess my question would be also like, what makes you late?

[1350] For me, it was finding my keys or finding all of my items or a big thing is, especially when I live on a six -four walk -up, I would literally forget something.

[1351] So I'd have to run back up.

[1352] I'd be like, I forgot to take my pill or I forgot sometimes literally my phone.

[1353] We'd need a little bit more information about, yeah, what is the sort of cause of tardiness or the ads time?

[1354] For me, it was very simple things, but always putting my keys at the same place.

[1355] I would just leave them in my bag and be like, oh, no, where they are.

[1356] No, you won't.

[1357] Yeah, exactly.

[1358] And leaving things near the door.

[1359] And also like a checklist of do I have the five things because I'm going to have to run back.

[1360] Yeah, I think that's good.

[1361] It's like understanding even if it's like, oh, I always end up making breakfast and then maybe decide on a breakfast that's quicker or to go, to go breakfast.

[1362] Creating options, because like even this morning, I did wake up on the early side, but then, I mean, I think this might be a thing for a lot of people.

[1363] When you have more time, you end up being later.

[1364] I have so much time.

[1365] Yes, you're like, oh, I could do this.

[1366] I could do that.

[1367] And you're like, oh, my God.

[1368] So I had more time.

[1369] But I was like, oh, I'll have a little thing to eat.

[1370] And in the end, yeah, I had to grab a protein bar and kind of go because I was going to be late or even makeup.

[1371] Sometimes you want to do a full makeup routine, you know, assessing whether you have time to do the full thing and having an alternative to it of like bringing your makeup bag and kind of doing it in the car.

[1372] I mean, these are things that I do all the time.

[1373] Do you, Rob, because you're always on time.

[1374] Yeah, you are.

[1375] I mean, it's kind of Liz's thing where I plan to be 15 minutes early.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] In my head, if we have a nine o 'clock recording, I know I want to be here at 8, which means I'll probably get here at 8 .30.

[1378] Yeah.

[1379] Right.

[1380] I give myself half an hour, even though it takes me 15 minutes to walk.

[1381] And usually, again, I won't end up leaving exactly, but because I've told myself I'm leaving at 830, if we have to be here at 9, I'll end up leaving at 840 and I'm still early.

[1382] I do think the 15 minute thing is good thing to just try in practice.

[1383] And again, this ex -boyfriend I had was like, you're just the person who's early.

[1384] You just come off again as like, not the better person, but like, especially if it's work and stuff like that.

[1385] It's extra hard with.

[1386] the car because you also overestimate you're like a car gets me there in four minutes.

[1387] It doesn't.

[1388] It gets you to wherever you're going to park and then by the time you get your purse out and you have to walk.

[1389] There's added Oh.

[1390] Is there a guest?

[1391] Hi.

[1392] Oh, a man has arrived.

[1393] A man. It's your ovaries, right?

[1394] And he's eating a protein bar after we talked about protein bars.

[1395] Oh my God, ding, ding.

[1396] Do you want to join us for Question?

[1397] Oh, sure.

[1398] But finish your food because misophonia still exists.

[1399] Misophonia.

[1400] Hi.

[1401] Well, you came at an interesting time because we're talking about an old, old fight of hours.

[1402] Oh, wonderful.

[1403] So many to choose from, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

[1404] Do you want to guess?

[1405] No. I'll just bring up another.

[1406] I know.

[1407] It's about being on time.

[1408] Oh, sure, sure.

[1409] You and I like to flip -flop on that issue.

[1410] Right.

[1411] And I even said, I thought about it on my way here.

[1412] I'm not flopped anymore.

[1413] I'm fine with late.

[1414] And so now that I'm fine with late, I just don't even notice it or I don't care.

[1415] Right.

[1416] But now I notice it in other circumstances like I was late today for them.

[1417] Obviously, if it's an interview and someone's here, we have to be on time unless there's some weird circumstance, which sometimes weird circumstances happen.

[1418] But I'm generally 90 seconds late even to that.

[1419] Yeah, but 90 seconds is fine.

[1420] Yeah, that's fine.

[1421] late.

[1422] It's embarrassing when you work 13 feet from where you sleep.

[1423] Right.

[1424] But I actually think that compounds it.

[1425] It does.

[1426] The closer you live to the place that you're supposed to be at, the later you'll be.

[1427] Yeah.

[1428] Anytime on parenthood, we had a location, it was like across town and maybe I don't drive there often.

[1429] I've got to assume the worst, right?

[1430] I'm like, I've got to get myself 50 minutes and then probably it takes 35 and I'm early.

[1431] But my yard, I'm like seven seconds.

[1432] But guess what?

[1433] Then someone's in the kitchen and they need to ask you something.

[1434] You trip.

[1435] You have to change your pants because you pee.

[1436] You two and you got to let air out before you come in.

[1437] A lot of variables between that door and this door.

[1438] What's your disposition on late?

[1439] I am a little bit like Rob.

[1440] I don't think five minutes counts and even ten minutes.

[1441] I think everyone should have a five to ten minute grace period.

[1442] And I always give myself more time to like I catastrophize.

[1443] I go to what's the longest time it can take me instead of the shortest time it can take me. And so then I'll usually end up being on time.

[1444] or being a little bit early.

[1445] It's a good place for pessimism.

[1446] Exactly.

[1447] Yeah, we think we're all supposed to be just optimistic.

[1448] No, no. You've got to have a dose of both in different areas.

[1449] And actually, there's research that more optimistic people are more late.

[1450] Because, again, you're more optimistic about how much time it takes to get somewhere.

[1451] I generated that research.

[1452] I don't know why you're telling me. Yes, yes, I'm the publisher.

[1453] You're the peer reviewed.

[1454] Well, I also reviewed it under pseudonyms.

[1455] But still, it's legit.

[1456] Because someone was asking a question, like, how offended it?

[1457] No, how to be on time is the question.

[1458] And we started this episode with me saying, there's an elephant in the room.

[1459] I'm late.

[1460] And I want to talk about it.

[1461] And I then said that this is an ongoing thing for us.

[1462] I think if someone lower status than you is late, you don't tend to notice it.

[1463] And if someone higher status than you is late, you feel like they don't value your time.

[1464] Or they've evaluated that your time's less important than theirs.

[1465] So I think if you really get objective about when you're triggered and when you're not, I bet you'll notice some status stuff.

[1466] Right.

[1467] Like when you're lackey, but.

[1468] buddy in the group shows up late.

[1469] Everyone's just like, he's a dipshit.

[1470] Everyone knows that.

[1471] He's always late.

[1472] But when it's like the captain of the football team or whatever high status person, you're like, oh, they think there are times more valuable than mine or your boss.

[1473] Right.

[1474] But also.

[1475] You guys don't agree with that?

[1476] I kind of agree.

[1477] Even I think about it with friends where if it's not like a consistent thing, if someone's running a little bit late, I won't read into it.

[1478] And you're right that if I read into it, sometimes it means that there's something else going on, that maybe I do feel like in the relationship, there's this, like, I always go near her or, you know, I always have to be on her time.

[1479] It's certainly more proof in the narrative that there's a power imbalance.

[1480] Right.

[1481] My thing, and I'm scared to bring this part up, but what'll happen sometimes, the few times you've been late and there's a guest.

[1482] Yeah.

[1483] I'm not mad at all, but I just start the interview.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] That's kind of how I handle my business.

[1486] I got to do my thing.

[1487] If you're late, you might have missed the boat or my kids, if you don't get in the car, you're not getting ice cream.

[1488] I'm not mad.

[1489] I'm not hurt.

[1490] I'm not threatened.

[1491] There's nothing going on other than we're going to keep going.

[1492] I'm not going to be negatively impacted by your tardiness.

[1493] But that seems so, yeah, this is probably not smart for you to bring this up because that does feel unfair to me. Because when you are four minutes late, we aren't recording before you come in.

[1494] And so then that is showing that there is this difference between us, which there is a difference.

[1495] But you could be generous in those moments and say, Monica's running a few minutes late.

[1496] So let's wait to start recording until she's here.

[1497] It is not punitive.

[1498] I've sat down in my chair where there's a microphone and the guest is sitting in that seat.

[1499] and they start talking, and I start responding, and it's quite obvious to me, this is good for the show.

[1500] Like, we should be recording this.

[1501] I'm not going to say stop talking to Monica kids here, nor am I going to get rid of potentially good stuff because you weren't present yet.

[1502] Right, but I have conversations with people for minutes and minutes and minutes before you get there and we're not doing that.

[1503] And maybe some of that's good too, and often it is.

[1504] It's like we were just talking about this and we bring it up.

[1505] And I think in that situation, Rob should be recording.

[1506] And if what you guys are talking about is interesting before I arrive, all fair.

[1507] So like nothing personal is happening.

[1508] You're just not here.

[1509] I've begun talking with the guests.

[1510] Interesting stuff is coming out.

[1511] And it'd be insane not to be capturing it because you're not present.

[1512] Vice versa.

[1513] I would say it's what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[1514] Yeah.

[1515] Okay.

[1516] That's a new thing you can start doing if we want.

[1517] Yeah.

[1518] Okay.

[1519] Let's do another question.

[1520] Wait, can I ask a question?

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] How often do you think about the Roman Empire, Dax?

[1523] That's a very broad question.

[1524] Don't you need video for this?

[1525] Should I video it?

[1526] How often do I think about the Roman Empire?

[1527] Well, I think of certain figures from the Roman Empire.

[1528] Uh -huh.

[1529] Right?

[1530] We had a lot of great artists.

[1531] We had some guilds formed.

[1532] I feel like there's a trap.

[1533] No. What does this mean?

[1534] It's that there's a trend on TikTok right now where women are asking their husbands or male friends, how often do you think about the Roman Empire?

[1535] And women are shocked to find out that men think of, about the Roman Empire, like a lot more than women do.

[1536] I don't doubt that at all.

[1537] I'll tell you this.

[1538] Anytime I'm in Europe, especially if I'm in England, and I go, wow, the first road system was built by the Romans and it was all the way up here in England in 300 AD or 500 AD.

[1539] How?

[1540] How did they build a road from Rome to England without any machinery?

[1541] That is insanely impressive.

[1542] Right.

[1543] So you think about it how often?

[1544] When's the last time you thought about the Roman Empire?

[1545] Shit, I don't know.

[1546] Probably within a week, I guess.

[1547] Do you think about it every week?

[1548] No, I'll think of an aspect of it.

[1549] I'll think about democracy.

[1550] I'll think about governance.

[1551] I'll think about betrayal, Mark Anthony, Julius Caesar.

[1552] These things are relevant in our current politics.

[1553] There's like all these themes that have been going on since then.

[1554] So, yeah, I see the parallels.

[1555] Okay.

[1556] It's like once a week.

[1557] I mean, I'm afraid.

[1558] I don't want to be on record.

[1559] I don't actually know.

[1560] How about this?

[1561] I'll come back to you in a month.

[1562] And every time I think of it, I'll just put it in a month.

[1563] Well, now you're going to think of it so much more.

[1564] Peter Mineha.

[1565] It's just so funny.

[1566] I literally never think about the Roman Empire.

[1567] And that's been what women have been saying.

[1568] Like, this is the first time I've thought about the Roman Empire.

[1569] It's like discovering this thing that men love and think about all the time is kind of fun.

[1570] Well, men have gone to war conventionally.

[1571] If we look at the history of the world, 98 % of civilization, men were the soldiers.

[1572] And they were conscripted.

[1573] And they lived with other soldiers.

[1574] Their life was all about protecting or advancing.

[1575] So it's been an enormous element in malexistence since we've been tribes.

[1576] I mean, the last draft was really only 90 years ago.

[1577] Right.

[1578] Do you wish you were living in the Roman Empire?

[1579] Fuck no. I make my living being clever and vulnerable.

[1580] Okay.

[1581] And I love it.

[1582] I think you would do well.

[1583] Rob would do well in the Roman Empire.

[1584] Rob doesn't think about the Roman Empire.

[1585] Rob is like our token.

[1586] He loves his birthday and he never thinks about the Roman Empire.

[1587] What's the Barbie character you would say he's on?

[1588] Alan.

[1589] You think that as a compliment, Rob?

[1590] I haven't seen Barbie so.

[1591] Oh, you guys so good.

[1592] You're not Alan then if you haven't seen Barbie?

[1593] Rob.

[1594] Oh, now I'm confused.

[1595] I have kids.

[1596] I don't go to the movies often.

[1597] Yeah, you do.

[1598] Bring them to fun.

[1599] I'll take care of your kids so you can go see Barbie.

[1600] You've seen a lot of the movies that have come on.

[1601] That was a catch -all.

[1602] I know.

[1603] He's seen so many movies all the time.

[1604] He's watching that crazy Irish one that nothing happens.

[1605] Seven hours long and it's dreadful.

[1606] You've found time to watch that one.

[1607] That's okay.

[1608] You can wait.

[1609] You can wait until it comes up.

[1610] We're not supposed to be promoting any of these movies.

[1611] I'll watch it at home.

[1612] You're just promoting the strike.

[1613] Exactly.

[1614] That's why.

[1615] That's why.

[1616] So I'll encode it.

[1617] Okay, we need to do one more question because we only do one question.

[1618] Okay, I'm a 25 -year -old woman dating a 41 -year -old man. Is he too old for me?

[1619] I'm stuck between what family and friends are saying versus what my heart is saying.

[1620] This is from Elizabeth.

[1621] So me and my boyfriend, Juan, started dating two years ago.

[1622] I was 23 and he was 39.

[1623] It's a 16 -year difference.

[1624] I'm a very mature 25 -year -old.

[1625] All my friends are older than me, and when dating, I found it hard to connect with guys my age.

[1626] Me and Juan just connected emotionally, and at first there was nothing sexual about it.

[1627] Then we went on a date, and the rest is history.

[1628] Only, it's not that simple.

[1629] He's Catholic and Hispanic and divorced and has a kid.

[1630] I'm Jewish and Persian and beginning my life.

[1631] My family doesn't approve.

[1632] My friends are okay with it, but I just can't help but feel judged by them in the world.

[1633] It's interesting.

[1634] Well, I just watched just recently for the first time, and I can't believe it's taking me this song.

[1635] I just watched the all too well 10 -minute music video.

[1636] I know.

[1637] I know.

[1638] It took me so long.

[1639] And that's about J .G., our friend.

[1640] That's about our friend.

[1641] Oh, okay.

[1642] That's Taylor's Soff's song about, that's right, the scarf.

[1643] The scarf.

[1644] And she did a video when she did the re -release of the 10 -minute version.

[1645] And I hadn't watched it until last weekend.

[1646] And I will say it's so weird because in my head, I'm like, it's fine for people to have a big age difference.

[1647] My parents have a big age difference.

[1648] So I don't think that much about it.

[1649] But when you watch this music video, you see an age difference within it.

[1650] Like they obviously cast it kind of appropriately to that.

[1651] And it looks weird.

[1652] Yeah, she was 21 and he was in his 30s.

[1653] How old was he?

[1654] Yeah, I don't remember.

[1655] He might have been like 31, 32.

[1656] He's not that much older than her, I don't think.

[1657] He's 42, 1980.

[1658] And she's 33.

[1659] So 11, you?

[1660] Nine years.

[1661] Nine years.

[1662] It's more about the age she was then, which was very young.

[1663] She was turning 21 as she was 20 or maybe 19 when they first started dating.

[1664] And again, in theory, I'm like, no, it's fine.

[1665] But then when you see this visual of a kid, what's her name who plays her?

[1666] Sadie something, and she's that age.

[1667] It looks like there's an adult dating a kid.

[1668] It made me feel weird because I don't normally think that or feel that way, but it did feel like, oh, this looks kind of fucked up.

[1669] I don't know.

[1670] Could you date someone older?

[1671] Yeah, I want to.

[1672] She wanted to date Sean Penn. I want to date Brad Pitt.

[1673] At this age, I'm 36.

[1674] I feel like we're past that point.

[1675] It's more relative to this listener who's in her mid -20s.

[1676] It's the early 20s time that feels precarious, a little.

[1677] But it's tricky.

[1678] I should be last to talk.

[1679] So what is your opinion?

[1680] My best relationship, we had a 10 -year age gap.

[1681] And I was 27, I guess, and he was 37, something like that.

[1682] And, yeah, at the beginning, I was a little uneasy with it.

[1683] But it was the best because I felt like I was ahead of him in certain ways.

[1684] I think he would admit emotionally, right?

[1685] I think he learned a lot from me. learned a lot from him.

[1686] I like to be in a relationship with someone who challenges me and who's smarter than me. I want to be with someone that I can kind of learn from.

[1687] I know that's not how everyone feels and wants from a relationship, so I can relate to wanting to date someone older.

[1688] There's also, we know that the male brain just doesn't develop in the sort of same way.

[1689] And I think women are expected to mature much more quickly and are expected to deal with consequences and are adultified much more quickly.

[1690] So I don't feel like a woman in her med 20s is that different from a man in his mid or late.

[1691] He's 41, this guy.

[1692] And she's 25?

[1693] Yeah.

[1694] If she was writing us when she was 19 and she was dating someone who was 16 years older, I'd be a little bit more worried.

[1695] But don't you remember being 25?

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] Like when I think about being 25 now, when you're 25, you feel very old.

[1698] That's another piece of this that is tricky because when you're that age, you feel very mature.

[1699] You feel worldly and wise and that you've lived a long life.

[1700] And a lot of those things can be true.

[1701] But the truth is, me at 25 versus me now, I was so different and naive and probably more susceptible to things than I would be now.

[1702] But you're going to say that in 10 years looking back at you now, too.

[1703] You're going to look back at 35, be like, oh, my God, I think we always can look back.

[1704] And even, again, mid -20s now feels early and young, but that's when my parents got married.

[1705] I guess there's a generational shift where I don't think we have our lives as figured out and together as our parents did around that age.

[1706] but that age was like a normal age to partner.

[1707] My mom is four years older.

[1708] Oh, so then that's a different situation then, though.

[1709] Why?

[1710] Because this is a 25 -year -old girl, woman, and a older man. I would just honestly want to know if he cares about her and there's a real connection there and that relationship is real and grounded that's great.

[1711] I just would want to make sure that he's not interested in her because of this youthful body that she has.

[1712] That would be kind of what I would be more looking.

[1713] into and ensuring that you're not going to get replaced by another young.

[1714] But if it's a genuine relationship, I don't know.

[1715] I'm just like, it's so hard to find love.

[1716] If you like each other and he likes you and you respect each other, who cares?

[1717] What do you think?

[1718] Well, I think first, it seems like the reason she wanted to write in was she feels judged.

[1719] So, like, that right out of the gates is worth analyzing.

[1720] I want follow -up questions.

[1721] If it's, I think these people around me think I'm stupid, that's a personal issue.

[1722] That's actually not about anyone around you.

[1723] Obviously, I would imagine the people around you have some very objectively true concerns.

[1724] One is you're at a phase of your life where you're hungry and you're trying to sort everything out and climb the mountain.

[1725] He theoretically should be more seated and calming down these are issues.

[1726] He already has kids.

[1727] You might want kids.

[1728] That's an issue.

[1729] So people might have some just logistical concerns about this dynamic.

[1730] But we get into a very weird area, I think, where it's very like what you guys would probably label.

[1731] paternalistic.

[1732] Okay, we've decided this 24 -year -old woman doesn't get to decide what she like.

[1733] Well, if anyone that's an adult likes anybody, guess what?

[1734] They can do whatever the fuck they want.

[1735] I mean, I don't know how we tell people, we know better than you.

[1736] No, that's not how it works.

[1737] If you're an individual who's an adult and you like a dude, let's say she pursued him.

[1738] Who knows what happened?

[1739] Now, if he hangs out in his scanning for a 23 -year -old, I think that dude's got issues.

[1740] But if a young woman likes an older man and wants to pursue him and then they get together and everyone's happy.

[1741] I don't think it's anyone's business.

[1742] Now, I also think there are unavoidable, implicit problems with that dynamic.

[1743] A, you're going to be 60 when he's dead.

[1744] That's a bummer.

[1745] There's some realities to this situation.

[1746] He probably's not going to want more kids.

[1747] You know, I don't know.

[1748] But those to me feel like more legitimate tactile issues.

[1749] Yeah, like logistical issues.

[1750] Yeah.

[1751] Yeah.

[1752] I mean, to your point, what's in the letter is more about the judgment of the family and other people.

[1753] There There doesn't seem to be anything about the relationship itself.

[1754] Well, she says I'm beginning my life.

[1755] Okay.

[1756] She says, I'm just beginning my life and he's divorced and has a kid.

[1757] So she did include that in a way that makes me feel potentially that she notices that as a gap.

[1758] Her family can judge.

[1759] They might judge for another reason for another relationship.

[1760] Exactly.

[1761] Yeah, they'll find another reason, right, to find something wrong.

[1762] But the kid thing is real.

[1763] Do you want to be a stepmom?

[1764] Yes.

[1765] In this relationship with the big age gap, we had to.

[1766] a conversation where you'd like, I would have more kids if that's something that you want and the stepmom dynamic and all that.

[1767] We were talking about those things, not what people think, you know, that's not what's important, but what matters to you.

[1768] I think I would really hone in on that and all of that rest is background noise.

[1769] Yeah.

[1770] There's power dynamics and relationships all the time.

[1771] Age might be a power dynamic, but there's also all kinds of different ways that there might be power dynamics in their relationship.

[1772] I didn't feel like age mattered, but there's all these other factors, you know, that mattered too.

[1773] For sure.

[1774] I think a red flag, though, is if he had ever says, which she has not said this, so I don't imagine it to be true, but just in case, I think if he ever says, like, well, I'm older than you, so I know this.

[1775] And I do think people who are older say that a lot, not in a bad way, but just like, well, you're young and you don't know yet.

[1776] That can't really be, in my opinion, in a intimate relationship because that shows some level of a major disparity.

[1777] I liked when my ex -boyfriend would say that to me, but it was in regards to, like, my, you know, career or, like, things that I had insecurities about.

[1778] It wasn't in regards to our relationship, right?

[1779] He wasn't patronizing, like, you just don't know, you're too young to understand this thing.

[1780] But it was great to have someone was older.

[1781] Be like, oh, yeah, this thing that you're worried about, don't, when you hit your 40s, it'll be like this.

[1782] And I loved that kind of insight.

[1783] But he wouldn't, like, weaponize it against me in, like, conflict that was related to our relationship, which I think is different.

[1784] Yeah.

[1785] Anything else?

[1786] Have you thought about the Roman Empire since we last talked about it?

[1787] I have.

[1788] Well, not the Roman.

[1789] empire.

[1790] I was just going to point out that most countries still have conscription.

[1791] It's very rare that we don't.

[1792] If you're in Israel, you're going to be in the military.

[1793] Our guest, Jim Farley, he didn't get citizenship growing up in Peru because he would have had to, I'm sorry, Argentina.

[1794] He would have had to serve for a couple years.

[1795] Do you wish there was conscription here?

[1796] Fuck no. I don't want there to even be armies.

[1797] I mean, in the dream world, there's no armies.

[1798] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1799] But it's a big, big reality on planet Earth.

[1800] Yeah, it is.

[1801] Look at all these Russian dudes, they don't have anything to do with this.

[1802] They don't even know what it's about and they've been shipped somewhere.

[1803] And if they don't get on that train, they go to prison.

[1804] And the Ukrainian soldiers, if they desert, they can be hung.

[1805] It's so real.

[1806] It's not theoretical.

[1807] No, I know.

[1808] Whenever I see one of those videos of just families being separated.

[1809] All these young boys.

[1810] No one knows why this is happening.

[1811] Yeah.

[1812] You just have to go.

[1813] All right.

[1814] Well, I think that's all the time we have.

[1815] So we will get to more questions.

[1816] next week and as always thank you for writing in yeah do you guys have a name for your listeners they named themselves synced squad ooh sync squad gets 10 % off on better help yeah exactly it's really sweet and cute they did that well thanks for having me yeah thanks for stopping in you guys are endlessly interesting oh thanks we'll be back next week bye