The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] This is like a therapy session.
[1] Patricia Bright.
[2] She's a creator, author, entrepreneur with an incredible story.
[3] Growing up, my mum should take us to offices to clean the offices and we'll go to school.
[4] And she would say, like, just don't tell anyone that you're working at 5 o 'clock in the morning.
[5] You'd just go to school in the morning and act like everything was normal.
[6] There is pressure for influences to speak up on every topic all the time.
[7] Bearing in mind that my forte is makeup and clothing and financed, you know, to an extent.
[8] but we are not credible sources who know everything.
[9] We just don't.
[10] And I think it's really important for us to say speaking up on stuff that you know nothing about is very, very dangerous.
[11] I had a stalker for like three years.
[12] And it was someone who would like just message me on all my platforms constantly, send emails, message family members.
[13] So I did a meet and greet an event.
[14] And then they message me, he's like, ha -ha, I was at your meet and greet.
[15] So I remember feeling so anxious, you didn't see me. You look so terrible in person.
[16] Next time I'm going to do something.
[17] Patricia Bright.
[18] She's a creator, author, entrepreneur and a mother.
[19] And she has a remarkable inspiring story.
[20] Growing up on a council estate, having her dad deported when she was just five years old, a Nigerian mother that came to this country doing cleaning jobs at night, which she took Patricia along to with her.
[21] And that mother became a property mogul.
[22] and Patricia, she became a superstar in her own right.
[23] So it's no surprise that when I looked at the comment section on a previous podcast episode, a comment requesting Patricia Bright to sit here with me and to be on this podcast had over a hundred upvotes.
[24] And now I know why.
[25] Her attitude, perspective, ambition, self -belief, resilience is incredible.
[26] So without further ado, I'm Stephen Butler, and this is the diary of a CEO.
[27] I hope nobody's listening.
[28] But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
[29] Tricia.
[30] Yes.
[31] We share one big similarity with our childhood in the fact that we both had Nigerian mothers.
[32] We did.
[33] We did, yeah.
[34] I didn't know that.
[35] Really?
[36] No, I didn't actually.
[37] Well, I still have a Nigerian mother.
[38] So I both have Nigerian mothers.
[39] And I believe both of our Nigerian mothers moved from Nigeria to the UK.
[40] Yeah.
[41] Yeah.
[42] So they were both born in Nigeria.
[43] So they're, you know, authentic roots are there.
[44] But, you know, tell me about the rest of your childhood.
[45] I only had one Nigerian parent.
[46] I hear you had two.
[47] Yeah, I had both my mum and dad growing up.
[48] But my dad was actually deported.
[49] So he got deported when I was probably like six years old.
[50] And I actually remember the experience of his deportation as being something very traumatic.
[51] In hindsight, as an adult, I recognize that.
[52] But growing up, you know, with an African mom, African dad, had our culture was just a part of us on an everyday basis, but also I was from South London as well.
[53] So I kind of grew up in Battersea, and I came from a very diverse school, but I always went back to like a very African home.
[54] And yeah, I think it really shaped me to who I am today.
[55] In what ways?
[56] I think it's that kind of, I'm going to say aggression.
[57] There's something about Nigerians out of all, other people from, say, the diaspora, that I think means that we're quite aggressive and very passionate.
[58] Let's not say aggressive.
[59] Let's say passionate.
[60] We're intense.
[61] We know what we want.
[62] And there's also a huge sense of like pride as well that we can do anything and we're good.
[63] And I feel very privileged that I had a lot of that.
[64] You're great.
[65] You'll do well.
[66] You'll be successful.
[67] Don't worry about what's going on.
[68] Don't see reality as a definition of a limitation for yourself.
[69] And I think that that's really made me do a lot of things that supposedly I shouldn't be able to do.
[70] But that kind of upbringing made me be like, no, I can do it.
[71] It's fine.
[72] It was always fine.
[73] I watched my mum do a lot of things that would be considered impossible for her.
[74] And she just she kind of achieved those things.
[75] And I would feel very privileged to kind of grow up with that sense of confidence instilled in me, which I think is really cultural as an Nigerian.
[76] And I bet she didn't complain either.
[77] Oh, there was no complaining.
[78] She just got on with it.
[79] Like even when my dad was deported, she just got on with it.
[80] And there were times that, you know, growing up, my mum used to work on the trains.
[81] So she was one of the train cleaners.
[82] And my sister's three and I'm five.
[83] should go out at night and leave us because there was no one to look after her kids.
[84] She'll go out, she'll clean offices, she'll take us to offices to clean the offices when we were younger and she just did it and we'll go to school and she would say, like, just don't tell anyone that you're working at 5 o 'clock in the morning.
[85] Obviously, you're not going to go to school and tell people, oh, I've just been at Foxton's like cleaning and helping my mum out.
[86] You'd just go to school in the morning and act like everything was normal.
[87] But no, there wasn't any complaining, and she just kind of got on with it.
[88] And do you think, you know, you referred to that as being, that gave you kind of confidence that you could do anything.
[89] But for me, it sounds a lot like, because that immigrant story is so connected with, like, survival.
[90] And that's why I talked about, like, she didn't complain.
[91] Because it's like a lot of complaint comes from privilege, almost, doesn't it?
[92] Yeah.
[93] When you feel like you have a choice.
[94] Yeah.
[95] But what's really also really interesting is that some people still feel lucky.
[96] The fact that she wasn't deported when my dad was deported, she probably felt, oh my God, I'm so lucky I got to kind of stay here.
[97] And why would you complain when you feel like you're in a better position for yourself and your children in the long term?
[98] So, yeah, she didn't have the privilege of wanting to complain.
[99] But I think she was really like happy to still be here.
[100] Though she had to work hard, I think she knew that she had a lot of opportunity while being here and she'd be trained and she became a nurse.
[101] And then she bought properties and then she retired.
[102] in her 40s.
[103] Like, I love England in that.
[104] It's kind of like the land of opportunity for those who really want to, like, you know, work out what to do and use it.
[105] So I think she could see that that was possible for her.
[106] And you talked about that day when you were six years old when there's a knock on the door at nighttime.
[107] At nighttime?
[108] It might have been at night.
[109] It might have been in the middle of the day, to be honest.
[110] What I do remember is, like, literally about four burly police officers officers kind of walking in and shouting like screaming like and there's me as a five -year -old my sister as a three -year -old my mom in tears and then literally dragging my dad out of the house and it was like your dad's gone like at that one moment and we didn't see him again for seven years afterwards so it was like at the time I didn't I never processed it it's only in the last year or two I've processed how kind of maybe traumatic that kind of experience would have been for me as a child.
[111] And I think it's also made me really be fearful of loss, which is why I work so hard so that things like that don't happen hopefully to me and my family in the future.
[112] So in the last couple of years, you've had time to reflect on that and you've, I guess you're saying, did you choose to reflect on that or go through the journey of reflecting that because you could see things in your behaviour that you thought maybe that's connected?
[113] I didn't even recognise it.
[114] I didn't even recognise it.
[115] I I knew that there was, like, I work really hard.
[116] Like, I'm really intense.
[117] And I'm always like, let's just keep going.
[118] I'm always like that.
[119] And until I literally, you know, started her therapy, I was like, where does that come from?
[120] And it was that then got uncovered in my therapy sessions that actually maybe one of the triggers for me like working hard was because of that maybe fear of loss.
[121] And obviously there's other aspects as well.
[122] I just like hustling.
[123] That's fun.
[124] But there was also maybe this thing here.
[125] that was one of my drivers that I've actually used in a positive way, but it's also important to kind of reflect on, like, dealing with things like that.
[126] And I think that I came from a place of, no, it happened.
[127] That just happened.
[128] It's fine.
[129] On to the next.
[130] Whereas, like, when you sit down and talk about it, you're like, oh, that's, that's not great.
[131] Five years old as well.
[132] That's not a great situation.
[133] Yeah.
[134] It must have taught you something about something, even if that lesson was wrong.
[135] That's the way I think about it.
[136] I'm like, that must have taught you something about the nature of life.
[137] Because at five years old, you're learning what you're learning what you're what the world means and what this means and that power and your dad and your mum.
[138] It must have taught you some lesson about something, even if that lesson was wrong, right?
[139] Yeah, exactly.
[140] I mean, I didn't even realize that it could have been teaching me something, like no idea.
[141] But maybe that stuff happened.
[142] That's life.
[143] You're not really in control of anything.
[144] But things like that can't stop you.
[145] Yeah.
[146] I mean, yeah, I think if my parents were snatched out of my house, I definitely wouldn't feel safe in, I wouldn't feel safe, you know, because that's parents represent the foundation of like safety, you know, this is my house and these are my parents and they just are.
[147] Yeah.
[148] And then one of those things are snatched out, it makes you, I guess, insecure about ever feeling too safe to some degree.
[149] Yeah.
[150] But I think for me, maybe mine was that I can't rely on the system or other people to secure my safety maybe and so I kind of am always trying to make sure I secure myself with the actions that I take because those are the only things I'm in control of so I'm very much like I'll do it myself I'll swear out myself oh don't worry because you never know what's going to happen there and I like that as a person does that make you paranoid about I guess everything or professionally no it makes me really objective I'm like I'm a pure really really like something's probably going to go wrong at some point in time and that's fine like how are you going to handle that like it's almost like I prepare for something to go wrong in a way this is like a therapy session no I mean this is pretty much what this podcast is right yeah well no I just find I think when I started this podcast I am I was anticipating to find these like wild differences between everybody but in fact I found the opposite which is that fundamentally we're all very very similar when it relates to things like insecurity and safety and childhood and then obviously because in many respects you've you've gone on to create a career for yourself that is so different from so many it would sometimes you think well what was the initial catalyst that caused that person to be different what was the like the environment it's almost like a cauldron what was the furnace they were like scolded in to make them then more hardworking or obsessive or whatever and yeah yeah i guess i mean having a Nigerian mother i already know what that part is like you could call it a quadrant yeah yeah yeah but that work ethic piece as well which um is quite absent in this culture um and that uh you know the what we talked about complaining you referred to this as the land of opportunity yeah how does that make you feel when you see people who have lots of a much more let's say financially privileged start to life um and they don't fully understand the land of opportunity.
[151] So my first thought is like I roll like there you go, moaning or complaining.
[152] But I also realize that there's so many different types of privileges that people have that can actually provide them like a long term foundation.
[153] I think that if you don't, some people are financial privilege but they have no love, they have no hope, they have no one to tell them that they're good.
[154] whereas I mean I've had the financial privileges, but I had a mum who was so loving and so caring and so encouraging that I was in a better position just because I had that.
[155] So I don't want to ever tell someone that you're privileged because of X, Y, Z. Maybe in other areas, they didn't have the support that they needed to actually spur them on to be the best version of themselves.
[156] So I try not to be that judgmental anymore because there's so many different categorizations of privilege.
[157] And at some point, you know, you said your mom, she retrained herself.
[158] She became a nurse, which is amazing.
[159] Yeah.
[160] And off you went to university.
[161] I did, yeah.
[162] I went off to university.
[163] MMU, we have a similarity again.
[164] Oh, really?
[165] Oh, my gosh.
[166] I love that.
[167] Yeah.
[168] I lasted one lecture, but I was there for all three years, but I just dropped out.
[169] Okay, great.
[170] We have that in common because I was barely there.
[171] But I had a great social life.
[172] I was really enjoying.
[173] Manchester is great.
[174] It's great.
[175] Yeah, no, I went to university after like leaving home and I was so ready to like get out of my house and get out of London and try something new and then find myself in like a new city.
[176] I actually went in to do fashion marketing and to my parents despair because again, as an African, you don't do fashion.
[177] That's not a real course.
[178] You do accounting.
[179] You do law.
[180] You do business.
[181] You don't do fashion marketing.
[182] but I think I've always had this kind of more creative or creative streak as well as rebellious streak as well like I'm going to do what I want to do but funny I kind of went there to do fashion but changed my course to accounting and finance because I realised that there was no financial hope in fashion I was like oh I'm not going to be broke when I leave university hell no so I changed purely on that basis that you purely on that basis I didn't love my course.
[183] And then when they were doing internship opportunities, they were paying interns 8K a year, 10K a year.
[184] And like graduate starting salaries were like 8K.
[185] And I was like, I'm not rich enough to do this.
[186] No way.
[187] And then I found out about accounting and finance.
[188] And they were like the banks that had really good opportunities.
[189] And I was really good at the accounting because we had a module in the fashion marketing.
[190] And I would, I smashed it.
[191] And I was like, I'll do a accounting and finance.
[192] You said at this point that your parents, you know, typical Nigerian parents, my mom was the same.
[193] When I, actually, when I dropped out, it's when I got hell.
[194] But, uh, because, you know, that's even worse.
[195] Yeah.
[196] Rather you're doing something at university.
[197] Just, I feel like part of it's just, just so she can tell her friends or something.
[198] Oh, do you know what I mean?
[199] It's just like, it's like, I'm going to university so that you get a degree as being a good mother.
[200] Yeah.
[201] Oh, it's a fact.
[202] My child is at university is what they tell all the aunties.
[203] Yeah.
[204] Like, it's very important.
[205] Yeah.
[206] And at that point, your dad was, he was backing.
[207] your life?
[208] Yes.
[209] So by the time I was about 12, he came back.
[210] So fundamentally, they defined his deportation as an illegal deportation.
[211] But I remember going to the court cases and my mom pleading with, you know, social services and lawyers and just people help us, help us get our dad back.
[212] Like, how do we do this?
[213] And then we went to the court case and she was like, I don't know why this man was deported, like, gaveled down, bring him back.
[214] I was like, that took seven years for you guys to do that.
[215] But he got back and, like, he just started again, worked as a security guard, did all of that kind of stuff, and then ended up working in the home office for immigration, which is so random because he was, you know, deported.
[216] Are you pissed off about that?
[217] The fact that you lost your dad for seven years.
[218] for what sounds like it was a bit of a mistake or just negligence or at least a lack of empathy to take a dad from their kids for what?
[219] Yeah, oh, am I, I'm not pissed off.
[220] Maybe I haven't processed it enough to be pissed off.
[221] It just felt like it is what it is and this is how it went.
[222] I felt more upset for my mum in that I know how difficult it was for her to like have us and have responsibilities and deal with like managing this court case, she managed it her entire self.
[223] She represented herself because she didn't have money for like lawyers and stuff.
[224] So she was under a lot of stress, but she did it and she did other stuff as well.
[225] So that was really the main thing that kind of upset me, I'd say.
[226] When did your dad come back?
[227] Did you have a relationship with him?
[228] It was weird.
[229] It was so weird.
[230] It's like, this is my dad.
[231] My dad.
[232] Like how do we have a relationship with a man we haven't seen for seven years.
[233] But, you know, he was the kind of, what, stoic African dad.
[234] So I remember he always gave me an envelope with money at the beginning of term.
[235] Like, well done.
[236] Look after yourself.
[237] Okay, how's the weather?
[238] Are you reading your books?
[239] Yes, Dad.
[240] Yes, Dad.
[241] Okay, good.
[242] Like, it was that kind of relationship.
[243] But I knew it was still caring.
[244] It was the way he kind of communicated his care for me, which is that envelope.
[245] of cash.
[246] And that's probably like a Nigerian generational cycle of like male figures.
[247] Yeah.
[248] Just being a bit, you know, a bit standoffish, but caring.
[249] And when they ask you certain questions, whether it's about the weather or your studies, how are, how is your studies going?
[250] Like, that's just, they don't really know what else to ask you.
[251] But them asking you that is, is powerful.
[252] And my dad calls me every day is, hi, how are you?
[253] Fine dad.
[254] How are the kids?
[255] Fine dad.
[256] Okay, bye.
[257] Like, it just, it's that checking in, which is.
[258] really i like it i think that's probably also just a male a male issue i think men typically aren't as um emotionally open so they they don't build that you know because vulnerability well connection seems to be built on vulnerability and they seem to have a bit of a guard up i my dad is definitely exactly the same like yeah the questions are so like you know just surface level yes are you okay yes okay goodbye yeah yeah let me know if you're not okay exactly yeah yeah um so MMU.
[259] You go there, you feel a bit out of place.
[260] Yeah, quite out of place.
[261] What do you mean by that?
[262] Because I'd never left like London and I'd like, I had to make new friends and I didn't know anyone and I wasn't really good at it and I couldn't really find my tribe very early on and I was on a campus really far away.
[263] I was on the Didsby campus.
[264] Oh yeah.
[265] Like that's out of town, right?
[266] And then there was like the main campus for Manchester University.
[267] that everyone was at.
[268] That's where I was.
[269] I wasn't there, right?
[270] In the spot.
[271] It was unbelievable.
[272] It was great.
[273] And I'm in Didsbury.
[274] I was like, come on.
[275] And I actually ended up, like, moving out of my halls of residence.
[276] Really?
[277] And crashing with a number of girls in that main campus.
[278] And I would move from room to room.
[279] So once one friend got annoyed with me after two weeks, another friend would stay with them for two weeks.
[280] And then I'd just go back and forth, like a nomad.
[281] for a bit.
[282] And you you change course to accounting.
[283] Yeah.
[284] In hindsight, how important was it?
[285] How like pivotal was it for you to have an understanding of finance for everything that would then come in your career?
[286] Because I feel like finance is such a neglected topic for kids.
[287] I wish someone had told me about fucking credit scores before I smashed mine.
[288] Okay, so the moving role was pivotal for my life.
[289] Like, it set me up on a completely different trajectory that I wouldn't have even been aware of because off the back of that role, I worked at, you know, all the top four for companies in the world in finance.
[290] I worked at Merrill Lynch and Deloitte Consulting, banks, all of that stuff.
[291] I would have never done that if I'd stayed in fashion.
[292] When it came to, from a personal finance perspective, didn't prepare me at all.
[293] Really?
[294] Not a clue.
[295] I owed the tax man money.
[296] I got my taxes wrong.
[297] I had to pay fines.
[298] I had no clue what I was actually doing.
[299] I had the degree, I had the T1, great, you've passed.
[300] How do you actually apply financial knowledge to running your own business, to your everyday personal taxes?
[301] Like, I don't have a clue.
[302] Spent the money, bought bags, made extra money on the side, spent it all, owe the tax man, and I wasn't prepared.
[303] Fucking out.
[304] Well, I mean, that's a great advert for Manchester -Muchpolitan University.
[305] Maybe it was just me. Maybe I was just like young and dumb, but, like, it helped me from a career perspective, but a lot of the financial courses out there don't help people be better themselves of money.
[306] And that's psychology point, because the money's such an emotional thing, especially as like an immigrant.
[307] Yeah, oh, yeah, exactly, yeah.
[308] And you grew up in a council estate, right?
[309] Growing up in a council estate, getting money, dangerous concoction for, like, getting a Lamborghini or fucking up with some Chanel bag or some shit.
[310] Exactly.
[311] But, like, I grew up on a council estate.
[312] And then my mom bought her council house for $17 ,000, sold that house for $250 ,000, use that money to buy it, to build a property empire.
[313] And that's how she ended up retiring.
[314] So when I was in Manchester, I was actually, my mom bought like four houses in Manchester.
[315] So I was doing property management while being a student.
[316] So I was still like running businessy stuff like as a student.
[317] So even though I had that came from the council background, I'd seen, kind of like how hustle and money could kind of be made and that I didn't have to be broke forever if I was kind of smart about it.
[318] Your mum sounds like a right, beast.
[319] She's wild.
[320] She bought four houses while you're in Manchester.
[321] Yeah.
[322] No, how many?
[323] No, three.
[324] Oh, well.
[325] Yeah.
[326] So different.
[327] Yeah.
[328] Yeah, but they were, oh no, I can't swear.
[329] They were great.
[330] Can I swear?
[331] Can I swear?
[332] Of course you can swear.
[333] Have you not heard me. Oh, okay.
[334] Well, that's still, I mean, you know, She was just in it for the flip.
[335] Oh, yeah.
[336] Yeah, exactly.
[337] So you start at some point blogging while at university.
[338] And why did you turn to blogging?
[339] Why was that a compelling path?
[340] Blogging or vlogging, I kind of went into it because I kind of had like a friendship fallout.
[341] And I became a bit of a loner.
[342] Like I didn't have a big social group.
[343] Like people would go out without me and I would live with a group of girls and they'd all go out together and I'd be like left at home by myself.
[344] So I found like online community.
[345] So I was part of different forums before Reddit was Reddit, before YouTube existed.
[346] There were like forums where girls would talk to each other about beauty and makeup and I'd spend hours like writing to these girls across the world and sending them pictures and they used to, before Instagram, there was FOCII, there was all these platforms where we were communicating.
[347] And then some of the girls would send videos to each other of like their new hair and their new makeup.
[348] Like so random.
[349] And then YouTube had just launched.
[350] It's like, this is a great way to send videos to each other.
[351] And so I kind of got sucked up in communicating with all the people that I met online because my real life wasn't that great.
[352] And I guess when you started in YouTube, you never thought it was anything more than a...
[353] No, it wasn't a thing.
[354] At the time of me, like, watching YouTube and kind of creating on the platform, there wasn't actually that many people on there.
[355] and so like little artists could go viral and there'd be like there was a song chocolate rain I don't know if you guys remember that with the black guy with the half of music yeah yeah that was like mind -blowingly amazing and then what there was Michelle Farn she was like the main beauty girl that was really like killing it so it was such a small little ecosystem that wasn't a business but it was genuinely about like connecting and talking to other people online why did you do so well in hindsight on YouTube?
[356] Honestly, length of time.
[357] Like, I was just doing it for a really long time.
[358] And I was very transparent.
[359] Like, I was so transparent.
[360] I was putting a lot of information out there.
[361] I wasn't that strategic with it, but I loved talking to people online.
[362] Like, they were literally my friends.
[363] And I used it a bit like an online diary in a way very earlier on.
[364] But it wasn't like a full.
[365] full -time thing.
[366] I was like interning and working.
[367] But I think eventually I got really strategic about it.
[368] And that's when I saw like more growth or huge growth.
[369] You were saying that you first started like the online forums and stuff at a time when you'd like fallen out with your flatmates.
[370] And I guess from what it sounds like YouTube was giving you that sense of like community, I guess and that you weren't getting in the real world.
[371] Fact.
[372] Yes.
[373] Definitely.
[374] I didn't like a huge social life after a while and after the fallout and I had so much solace with just this online community.
[375] I never felt lonely because I could log in and there'd be someone on there and I could read all the forum updates and talk to the girls who were into the things that I was into.
[376] They were all over the world.
[377] It was just really nice to like have friends.
[378] You referred to the fallout as if it was a really pivotal moment in your life.
[379] it wasn't it wasn't that pivotal but it's quite hard when you're at uni and like your friends are off doing stuff and like meeting people and then you don't have anything to do or they're not talking to you it feels like a big thing in in real life it's really not a big thing like but at the time it was like I'm so lonely I'll go online okay yeah well wow good thing you did what a journey and you say consistency you point to consistency as being the real um factor to your success, but consistency must come from, you know, enjoying it, because there'll be a lot of people listening to this thinking, I want to be a YouTuber.
[380] I mean, everybody seems to want to be a YouTube these days.
[381] But the insanity to do it as long as you did without the guarantee of money must have come from somewhere.
[382] There was no guarantee of money.
[383] It was a hobby.
[384] Like, if you're a painter, you like painting at the weekend.
[385] You're going to paint anyway.
[386] Whether someone pays you for your art or not, you just enjoy doing it.
[387] So I just enjoyed making videos that other girls watch and I could talk to the other girls.
[388] So I didn't get paid for like four years, but I was always uploading every weekend.
[389] It was my hobby.
[390] Like it wasn't, this is going to be my new job, which is why I even struggle with it now and that I really want to enjoy it in the same way that I always enjoyed it.
[391] And do I need to look for a new hobby and is now YouTube my job?
[392] Like, oh, I find it really hard to kind of balance the fact that, this thing that was my escape is kind of like my job now.
[393] I was talking to one of the guests on the podcast a couple of weeks ago about this study where when someone gets paid to do a task, they used to love doing, they lose motivation for it.
[394] And it's just mental.
[395] They do the study where they give people this game, people enjoy doing the game.
[396] They then say, we're going to ask you to do the game again, but this time you're going to get paid.
[397] The other group don't get paid.
[398] And the group that got paid to do the thing they just enjoyed doing, lose motivation.
[399] Doesn't it make a lot of sense?
[400] You two stop paying me. I like those checks that is insane you lose internal motivation when it becomes when some of the reason for doing it becomes extrinsic monetary so and this is a you know it's so why's oh my gosh it's tough isn't it it's really tough because people are like oh my god like what a privileged conversation but it's not because like say imagine someone's like a dark place or something, right?
[401] But eventually, once they get into the competitive sports of darts, maybe it becomes a bit more stressful.
[402] Maybe they don't enjoy it as much.
[403] Maybe the challenge of doing it is now I've got to perform for my management and the crew or whatever, there's a dark crew.
[404] I just made that up.
[405] But that becomes like, I don't know, more pressure than the person who just wanted to play darts on the Saturday night would feel.
[406] And you feel that?
[407] No. No. The reason being is that I try to frame what I do as I've accepted that I have a huge desire to create stuff, right?
[408] That's it.
[409] So as long as I focus on this process is creation, this process is creation, I'll be fine.
[410] And that might mean saying no to work and no to sponsorships for a season.
[411] So I can at least feel that creation because I'm very much like, how do I feel about this?
[412] Which is kind of bad.
[413] Also, it's allowed me to do what I'm doing.
[414] It feels like a good long -term strategy.
[415] Yeah.
[416] Because if you're not asking that question in the short term, how do I feel about this?
[417] So many people, and in fact that I think the guests that just sat in that chair last, you end up gradually becoming someone you never intended to be and ending up somewhere you never intended to go.
[418] So that constant asking of that question, how do I feel about this today?
[419] Which, as you alluded to, it means turning down money sometimes.
[420] But, you know, thinking longer term about what you're doing.
[421] and why you're doing it, I think is so critical, so critically important.
[422] You know, we've got two guests that have come to watch this podcast today.
[423] And Sophia, I said, Sophia, you know, she's followed you for some time.
[424] I said, Sophia, if you could ask Patricia, any question, what would it be?
[425] She said to me, how did she find the confidence to make the leap from that sort of corporate career to going full time with this thing called YouTube?
[426] So, for me, my confidence came from an Excel spreadsheet.
[427] So I am not a risk taker.
[428] I'm more of a steady and stable person, but I did a bit of maths.
[429] I did a bit of a projection.
[430] I looked at what my long -term potential earnings and lifestyle would look like if I stayed in the banking industry.
[431] And then I looked at what my numbers were looking like, you know, if I stayed as a creator, where could I take it?
[432] And even at that time, I had no clue I could get to where I am today.
[433] but the numbers looked healthy enough.
[434] So I was like, okay, I'll take the leap.
[435] Even if I do it for two years, it could be okay.
[436] And I didn't just jump out.
[437] I kind of took a toe dip in and I quit my job, but then I took another job that was part time so I could make content and have a job as well.
[438] And you call your mum and you say, quit my job.
[439] I didn't tell her.
[440] I didn't tell my mom.
[441] I didn't tell anybody.
[442] What?
[443] You've quit your big banking job.
[444] Oh, hell no. I could never do that.
[445] So I knew my parents would be worried and scared.
[446] Should we tell them now?
[447] No. They know now.
[448] So, Mom, I left my job.
[449] They barely know what I do right now.
[450] They're like, I do this thing on the internet.
[451] They're like, oh, well, no. It's fine.
[452] Yeah, yeah.
[453] So my mom.
[454] But yeah, so you made that, you took that leap into YouTube.
[455] Was there a moment where you think, well, fucking hell, this is, this is moving?
[456] This is, or was it just one step at a time?
[457] Slow and steady.
[458] Slow and steady.
[459] I was making, I'd been making content for seven years and then I got to a million subscribers.
[460] So I didn't have any of those really viral moments and I saw lots of people kind of steamroll ahead of me, like go viral.
[461] They were part of these groups and these crews and, you know, there was a time that there was a thing called the brick pack.
[462] They were all there.
[463] And I was just like, in the corner by myself, like, prodding a lot.
[464] long and then inevitably like my time came and it took again that seven years to one million and then one more year to another million and a half and I then had my own viral moments off the back of myself and but I never kind of took the step back to be like oh you've made it because I never feel like I've made it not even now not yet a lot of people might be surprised by that?
[465] Maybe.
[466] It depends on someone's personal definition of making it, right?
[467] And what's yours?
[468] World domination.
[469] What is mine?
[470] It's not just being popular on social media.
[471] That's not my complete definition of success, right?
[472] I think for me it's like creating things that I want to create, when I want to create them, and monetizing them and bringing value.
[473] So if I say my overall thing, that's it.
[474] What that looks like, I don't know just yet.
[475] And you don't think you're there, yeah.
[476] You don't think you're creating things that you really...
[477] Oh, I'm doing it.
[478] I'm doing it.
[479] But I don't think I've had like one big thing yet.
[480] Does anyone have one big thing, though?
[481] I don't know.
[482] I think that, you know, I think if you'd gone back and asked Patricia when she was at MMU, what her making it look like you would have said, you know, 100 ,000 followers.
[483] On my...
[484] Do you know what I mean?
[485] So there's...
[486] Free clothes.
[487] So maybe the goalpost is just moving off into the future And maybe that's maybe that speaks to what life is It's just that journey as opposed to that destination, right?
[488] Yeah, yeah.
[489] And influencers, being an influencer, talk to me about that.
[490] When I say it, you know, what do you think about the lifestyle, the stigmas, et cetera, et cetera.
[491] So when people say influence, I think there's a little cringe when they say it.
[492] But I think this concept of being.
[493] influential is, has always been around, but it's always been around with the hands of the upper echelon of people.
[494] Only certain people are picked by certain industries to be influential.
[495] But what I love is like now there's this democratization.
[496] People can choose who they want to be influenced by and how I got in my position is because people liked me. They decided that actually, I want to hear what Patricia has to say.
[497] I want to see what she's buying.
[498] I want to see what she likes.
[499] So I think it's a really powerful tool.
[500] We've all been influenced.
[501] The question is like we want to choose who those influences are.
[502] It's a it's a big I guess responsibility to some because I know for a fact that every time something happens in the world, you get a DM.
[503] Patricia, I thought you were with us.
[504] Why aren't you doing 55 Instagram posts about Palestine or Kenya or India or oxygen in the fires in Australia.
[505] I thought you were one of, it's a lot.
[506] It's a lot.
[507] It's a lot.
[508] Bearing in mind that my forte is makeup and clothing and maybe financed, you know, to an extent, I feel there is pressure for influences to speak up on every topic all the time.
[509] But we are not credible sources who know.
[510] know everything.
[511] We just don't.
[512] And I think it's really important for us to say we're ignorant on a matter and we're learning.
[513] But kind of speaking up on stuff that you know nothing about is very, very stupid.
[514] Stupid.
[515] And also, what is really scary is that if you don't think the same way that everybody else thinks, you're in trouble.
[516] What if you have an alternative perspective, you're not allowed to have an alternative perspective.
[517] If you ask of peace, whether or not it's, you know, in the Middle East specifically or for on a certain matter oh no way because the world wants to keep everything burning but like personally I'm like can can this just chill like not just that situation specifically but a lot of situations I'm like I just wish it wasn't happening is that your approach to it you think generally if I don't have a a proper well -rounded view because it's all well people like because I get the same this is how I know you'd get the same people message me and say, Steve, speak on this issue or Black Lives Matter or whatever, while I'm still processing it.
[518] And what you're right, what they're actually saying is share my opinion to your followers on this issue.
[519] And they try and like guilt trip me into it.
[520] Like, you know, especially when it's, when it's a group of people that I can relate to just viscerally.
[521] So like my skin color.
[522] Yeah.
[523] Yeah.
[524] Yeah.
[525] I'm expected to be a, you know, the spokesman of all black people.
[526] Yeah.
[527] Oh, me too as well.
[528] Yeah.
[529] Yeah.
[530] It's a lot of, yeah, a lot of, um.
[531] nastiness.
[532] What else do you think is unappreciated about being an influencer?
[533] You've obviously got a big platform.
[534] The other thing I was going to say, right?
[535] This is what I was just thinking as we're talking.
[536] The other day, I thought and I've been working out for a year and a half now.
[537] I was like talking about this.
[538] Love it.
[539] And Grace, who sat behind that curtain over there, I sent her a photo and I was like, I'm going to post like a transformation picture of like the before and after.
[540] And me and Grace had a conversation because if I was a female and I posted that, I would have got fucking ripped to pieces.
[541] I would have been told I was toxic, irresponsible, body image, da -da -da -da -da -da.
[542] Yeah, yeah.
[543] I posted it, fine.
[544] Yeah.
[545] 100 % of people like, send this your plan, like whatever.
[546] Yeah, yeah.
[547] And it really made me reflect on how tough it is to be a woman on social media with a big audience.
[548] It's like the standard of perfection in terms of your like morals, what you're posting, how you're posting, what you're saying, is a high bar to reach.
[549] Yeah.
[550] Whereas I'm not held to that standard as a guy.
[551] Okay.
[552] Yeah.
[553] Yeah.
[554] I'm not surprised, but there's going to be different standards you're held by.
[555] So with the women, like ours, there's a lot of pressure around our appearance, or if we're mothers, how we mother, or what we're wearing.
[556] I mean, it's so random, but I'm sure there's definitely things that men are going to expect from you that I can't believe you did this or something.
[557] It even relates to success.
[558] It's like I can come on, and I could come on this podcast.
[559] and say that I, the reason I'm successful is because of me. And I can talk about my big old ambitions and I'm going to, but when a woman does it, it's like, you know what I mean?
[560] It just seems like there's just a double, a total double standard.
[561] The fact that I can post, me being kind of slightly overweight in that shape, and then like, 19 pack.
[562] Do you know what I mean?
[563] I saw many videos you said seven abs or whatever, like seven abs or whatever.
[564] And the comments are like, woo!
[565] But I know if, if a woman did the same thing, it would be like, this is irresponsible.
[566] What are you saying?
[567] Fat shame, da -da -da -da -da.
[568] Oh, why is that?
[569] Is it because, like, men and women are fundamentally different?
[570] So I'm presuming that your audience is, like, probably say, 60 % to 70 % male.
[571] 80 % women.
[572] 80 % women?
[573] On my Instagram in particular.
[574] Wow.
[575] I think women judge men.
[576] by different standards.
[577] So what you'll see, oh, let's talk about this, what you'll actually see in the world of beauty and women's fashion and industries that are predominantly consumed by women, men are always at the forefront.
[578] So the biggest influences in the beauty industry are five men, men who wear makeup, right?
[579] And yeah, so true.
[580] Men who wear makeup are more popular than, or let's say three.
[581] Men who wear makeup can be bigger and get to bigger stratospheres than any women could.
[582] The fashion industry and fashion brands, all of them, the majority of them, are owned by men and ran by men or creative directors are men.
[583] Not women.
[584] There aren't a lot of brands that are run and owned by women.
[585] And I just think this is something to do with biology, sociology, the way in which kind of women interact with.
[586] men is different to how we interact with each other.
[587] I wish it was different, but I've just noticed this, like, a lot.
[588] And the other point, which I kind of alluded to there as well, is on this topic of gender disparities, I guess, is like discrediting success.
[589] Yeah.
[590] Do people discredit your success?
[591] Do you know what?
[592] Not so much.
[593] And I think also because I'm a black woman, people are so happy to see me do well because they feel like it's rare.
[594] And so I think I'm afforded a bit more luxury to be a bit more, like, aggressive about, you know, I'm pushing, I'm moving hard, whether you like it or not.
[595] That's the Nigerian in me coming out.
[596] And culturally, I think I'm allowed to celebrate that a lot more because Brits, I don't think, like to celebrate people doing too well or being too much.
[597] So I can get away with it a little bit more.
[598] but I know like there is a little there can be tension when I talk about my numbers too much and I'll definitely get the messages of this is not what you should be talking about you shouldn't talk about how much you earn it's a bit rude imagine a guy doing it though oh oh go on show us the Lamborghini again do you know what I mean it's like that's all guys do that's how they build their status is like I mean just that's what that's how it works Have you put your Lamborghini on?
[599] No, no, I don't have a Lamborghini.
[600] But I can openly talk about how much money I've generated in my companies and no one's ever going to say, oh, that's so distasteful.
[601] They clap.
[602] But when women do it, people do go, oh, God, she's not, that's not a good taste, is it?
[603] Yeah.
[604] And that again is a huge, like Ben Francis, he talks about, he's built at one point something billion dollar company, everyone's like amazing.
[605] Yeah.
[606] You know, they can show, men can show the nice things, the cars, the houses, whatever.
[607] And it's all, but the minute, Grace Beverly does a house tour, You can't do it, yeah.
[608] I have a video called, like, how I made a million on YouTube, right?
[609] And it's, firstly, it's got, like, over almost a million views on it.
[610] And, but the comments were so kind of crazy.
[611] People are, like, I can't believe you're sharing this.
[612] We're really excited.
[613] But also, like, you shouldn't be putting this out there.
[614] And what I actually did is there's no way I could actually share my actual numbers.
[615] because I think people would judge me negatively and, like, fall over, be like, what the hell?
[616] How is it possible?
[617] And, like, almost want to stop the bag, if that makes any sense.
[618] Like, they don't, people don't like to see women doing two big numbers.
[619] You've got to still be humble as a woman.
[620] How do you respond to that, though?
[621] How do you, how does that impact the choices you make?
[622] And does it impact the choices you make?
[623] Isn't that sad, though, that you...
[624] It really does.
[625] So I've moved away from, like, putting out my knowledge.
[626] I'm not going to use using my numbers as a strategy or showing my things too much as a strategy.
[627] I also bought a couple of properties and, you know, I really want to share with people about financial empowerment and properties and making money.
[628] But like I can see that almost like a sour taste sometimes in people's mouths.
[629] So I show a bit less of it.
[630] I'm not going to show you the new house that I bought or or something else.
[631] I'm not going to show it as much.
[632] And I've tried to make more relatable content.
[633] A lot of us have to be relatable and remain humble to still be considered a good influencer.
[634] Just don't show what you have.
[635] Are you happy with that though?
[636] Are you happy to go along with that and to do what, because when we spoke earlier about what your goal is, it's to make stuff that really matters to you.
[637] And that sounds like it's driven by like my terms, you know, what I care about in my way.
[638] and not allowing the audience to dictate what you create.
[639] That sounded like your North Star.
[640] And this being a good influence of it doesn't sound like it's going to make you very happy.
[641] Yeah, I think it's all about being strategic, though, right?
[642] So, like, if eventually showing lots of glamorous stuff is going to impact growth, it would be silly for me to keep doing it, right?
[643] And again, that's not my personal strategy anyway.
[644] I'll be honest of you.
[645] I don't want to be like, look at my new Lamborghini, look at my new house.
[646] That's not who I am as a person.
[647] It's a bit cringe for me and it's not part of my strategy.
[648] But I do want to remain authentic, but I understand that showing too much of my success doesn't always sit well for people.
[649] And I'm happy to like remove that aspect if that makes people more comfortable.
[650] And I think that's because I'm a woman.
[651] I want people to feel comfortable.
[652] And, you know, you start this platform called The Break.
[653] Yeah, that was it.
[654] When I say that there's a big smile on your face.
[655] Yeah, that's like my passion project turned like great potential business opportunity.
[656] And I think for me, that's like where I decided to start talking about these things.
[657] And we're just, we're talking about this now that people don't talk about money, women don't talk about money.
[658] On that platform, I am unapologetic.
[659] And that's why I shared about the making a million in a year.
[660] year or making a million over a lifetime and showing how I budget my salary and showing you how I bought a house in 10 minutes.
[661] I put that all on there because I feel like you know over there is where I'm going to talk about this stuff.
[662] So if you like it, is there.
[663] If you don't like it, let's go put a makeup on my other channel.
[664] And it's been just insane to see how it's grown and how much there's a huge demand for this type of content within this demographic.
[665] It was what was missing when you started out from what you said earlier.
[666] Exactly.
[667] And that's why I created it.
[668] Because you were buying all those bags and being a bit reckless and no one told you.
[669] Exactly.
[670] And the tax man came knocking at my door and I got fined.
[671] And I was like, nobody needs to do this.
[672] This is how you incorporate.
[673] This is how you get your pension sorted out.
[674] This is how you can buy a property for your business.
[675] And I was just literally doing all the stuff that I kind of learned from my accountant and from the financial mistakes that I've made.
[676] aid.
[677] I really wanted to just say, here you go.
[678] Here's this information.
[679] Use this.
[680] Make it be valuable to you to help you in your journey.
[681] Do you know, in black culture, we, um, growing up, you know, I was watching 50 cent and all this stuff.
[682] And he is a bad financial advisor.
[683] Because and I, and I get some advice on 50 cent though.
[684] Fucking every black, young black man, do you know what I mean?
[685] And what he told me about bottles and Lamborghinis and stuff.
[686] It really hurt me when I was 21 and I finally got money and I went to the club and I was getting five bottles of Don Perry on please and I blew a lot of cash and I just wish those those role models like the rappers that I followed when I was younger I wish they told me about credit scores you know what I mean I wish but that's not it's not sexy right it's not glamorous it's not fun like I have a video on pensions like 40 401ks and and whether or not you should be making a contribution to your sip right that is not oh this is glamorous.
[687] No one wants to hear that, but there are going to be a few who do take it and use it.
[688] I wish we could dress up, like, credit scores, like give it lipstick, give it a Lamborghini.
[689] But we haven't mastered that yet.
[690] Maybe I'll do that later.
[691] But they don't want people to know the truth.
[692] I don't think anybody wants people to really know the truth about finances.
[693] It's not beneficial.
[694] It's not beneficial to government.
[695] It's not beneficial to corporations.
[696] It's not beneficial to banks and lenders who actually want people to be inept in this area so they can make financial mistakes and then give them more money.
[697] That's the reality of it.
[698] Like, rich people aren't actually struggling financially.
[699] It's actually everyone else on the maybe lower end of the spectrum who don't have this information, but this information would transform their lives.
[700] I guess that's why they call it financial freedom.
[701] There we go.
[702] Yeah.
[703] And you said this started as a passion project and now it's turned into a potential business opportunity.
[704] Talk to me about that and where's it going?
[705] This is a lot.
[706] So where's it going?
[707] So we really want to build out like a web platform which has content but also tools that people can use.
[708] So one of the things that I created was a simple budgeting like template and like literally in like two weeks we had like 20 ,000 people download an Excel spreadsheet on how to manage their day to day income.
[709] So clearly there's more that we can do here.
[710] here.
[711] We then launched a planner as well that just sold out in like a day or two and then we're launching more of these.
[712] So in the long run, I'd like to provide more financial tools and resources that people could use to help them with managing their everyday finances.
[713] The dream is like an app, but that takes time to like happen.
[714] But like we've got the designs and we're doing some testing now to really see how we can like build that out further.
[715] Of all the work you're doing across all of these different projects, and I'm sure there's many, many more that we're even talk about today, is this the thing you're most excited about?
[716] And it's like choosing your choosing your favorite child, but I would say it's something I'm really excited about because it's so valuable.
[717] So I'm very excited about it.
[718] And I think it's a new challenge.
[719] So as an influencer, like I work for brands.
[720] I make amazing content for them.
[721] I get nice things.
[722] But now this is my chance to kind of be a brand and create value more so.
[723] So it's a, really like a new challenge for me that I'm excited to kind of get into.
[724] And you, when you were saying we, we've made an Excel document.
[725] Who is we?
[726] So actually, Excel document I made.
[727] But I do have like my husband who's been really supportive and like helping me build that out.
[728] And then I've like recruited a CEO to like help me think about scaling this out.
[729] But I've had other team members here and there, freelancers here and there.
[730] But I know inevitably that scaling is something I'm going to have to be willing to do.
[731] And that's hard for myself to do.
[732] Yeah.
[733] Your husband?
[734] My husband, Michael.
[735] Michael.
[736] Can I call him Mike?
[737] You can call him Mike.
[738] I can see him over there in the corner of the room.
[739] Follow me around.
[740] What's it like working with Mike?
[741] So, oh, that's a really good question.
[742] So working with Mike.
[743] You know what, Michael's been like with me for every step of my journey as a creator.
[744] And he's always worked a full -time job.
[745] And then he inevitably went even to more of a freelance role so that I could use him when I needed him.
[746] So he will work as a contractor and I'm like, Mike, I need your help.
[747] Quit your job.
[748] Come and help me. And so throughout my entire journey, he's been there to do that.
[749] However, working with your significant other can be real difficult.
[750] And there are times where we're like, let's not do this.
[751] Go back to your job.
[752] And make something happen, go back contracting, and then when we're like, oh, we're cool, come back again.
[753] So what's important for us is actually to establish how we communicate with each other and boundaries.
[754] Like when we're working together, we actually don't work in the same environment.
[755] So he'll work in an office and I'll work somewhere else because if you work in the same room at the same time, it's not pretty.
[756] We're going to send a microphone over to Mike in the audience to get his take on it.
[757] It's not pretty.
[758] Yeah, because I think when you're in like boss mode, like you can be quite direct.
[759] Like I'm very like, this doesn't look good.
[760] I don't like this.
[761] Can we change this?
[762] How do we do this better?
[763] This is wrong, right?
[764] And I think there are, when it's with your partner, they're going to take that personally over, say, someone else who is, you know, just working with you.
[765] And I haven't developed my managerial skills to be great when it comes to, you know, my interpersonal skills just yet.
[766] So, and I think when you're working with a loved one as well, you feel like you want to be more direct.
[767] Like, they should know.
[768] Just, you should know this.
[769] Come on, like, but he doesn't always know.
[770] And he can't read my mind and he's a man. So there's, there's differences there.
[771] So that's when it gets a bit difficult when we're together.
[772] And how do you balance, like, leaving work at work and not bringing that home with you?
[773] Because one thing I came to learn was that the Steve Bartlett, succeeds in a professional environment that is direct that is very clear and uncompromising is not the same steve barlett that is required to compromise and oh you want to go for a walk in the park for no reason how do you how do you be two different people in order to achieve two completely different objectives and how do you do that also when you're you live and work in the house right the same house because that's something that we deal with i think it's again about setting these boundaries like physically so Michael won't really work in a house even if he's working on my projects and I'll try and work from an office as well as much as possible and then it's the case of like switching off it's hard man it's really hard I think as a creator as a social media creator like you're always on I haven't mastered that yet but we have kids so the good thing about kids is that they force us to, like, give them love and give them attention.
[774] So we have to switch off and sort the kids out and give them a bath and give them dinner.
[775] So we'll always kind of, I don't know, switch brains because of that.
[776] Oh, there's a really good point.
[777] I never actually thought about the fact that kids would actually force some kind of balance into your life.
[778] They do.
[779] Which is, yeah.
[780] Yes.
[781] Amazing.
[782] And you guys have been together a long time.
[783] A long time, yeah.
[784] We've been together for 14, 14 years.
[785] Yeah.
[786] married for like nine years, I think.
[787] Yeah, nine years, yeah.
[788] I always, I always think because, because of my own experiences of being pretty useless at relationships, um, entrepreneurs, and especially create, I mean, creators, it's a different bag.
[789] Because as you say, you're always on, they're, they're quite difficult to date.
[790] Yes.
[791] Yeah.
[792] And I think as well, and I'm probably going to get in shit loads of trouble saying this, but I don't really care.
[793] I'm going to die and another mother can be even more tricky to date.
[794] Yes.
[795] You spoke to your mother, you used the word, we'll say passionate.
[796] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[797] Does that relate?
[798] Yeah, so obviously Michael's like an Englishman from Manchester, right?
[799] And like, we are very culturally, very different.
[800] And I think, but it's so interesting.
[801] I think if I wasn't with Michael, I'd be very single and very lonely.
[802] Like, I've accepted that.
[803] I don't know if anybody else would, like, actually handle me if that makes any sense.
[804] I think it takes a certain kind of person to be with an entrepreneurial person, let alone an entrepreneurial Nigerian woman.
[805] Like, that's like so many different layers there.
[806] And yeah, yeah, he's like a magician to be able to handle that.
[807] And we're like polar opposite people.
[808] I'm very, like, emotional and like, let's do this now.
[809] And he's very logical, steady, stable.
[810] and I think that actually is the balance that I've needed and I think we're meant to be together to like, I don't know Ying and Yang.
[811] It's great.
[812] You said he followed you here today but I heard you actually had a cyber stalker.
[813] Oh, yeah.
[814] It's not Mike.
[815] I found that it was actually his account that's stalking me. Yeah, no, I did.
[816] I had a stalker for like three years.
[817] Oh, wow.
[818] And it was someone who would like just message me on all my platforms constantly, send emails, message family members, really weird.
[819] And nowadays, I can't even remember, like, what their, what their issue was.
[820] I don't think they even had one.
[821] They were just obsessive me and obsessive, like, my relationship to an extent.
[822] Because I used to put vlogs out and I used to have, like, content with me and my husband, and I stopped, like, actually, it sounds so bad, but I think it was enough to tell me I'm not going to put myself out there in that way.
[823] why i i think it takes an emotional toll having a stalker because you're worried like when you log in am i going to see their messages what are they going to do today what are they going to say today are they going to docks me so they found out my parents name and address and say your mom's this name she lives here so like those things and obviously it was like psychological warfare um warfare but it was yeah it was more psychological but like when i was thinking about it it, I kept thinking, it's because I put myself out there too much.
[824] This is why they're targeting me. And I think inevitably, it made me want to retreat in certain aspects.
[825] Do you still think that was the case now?
[826] I think that was one of my triggers, but I think inevitably, I was like putting yourself out there too much, from a personal perspective, wasn't something I wanted to do.
[827] Like, I used to show, like, I showed our wedding, I showed me giving birth.
[828] I've put a lot out there, okay?
[829] Linking the bio.
[830] Linking the bio, my best story.
[831] And like the platforms love it when you put yourself out there a lot, but inevitably it does take a toll on you as a person.
[832] And I just said, we're going to stop this.
[833] I don't want to be that person.
[834] I actually care more about my real life than putting a version of my real life online.
[835] I tend to think when you're reaching that many people, just probabilistically, just by numbers, you're going to reach at least 10 hudders.
[836] Yeah, okay.
[837] Just like, do you know what I mean, regardless?
[838] It just happens, yeah.
[839] And you're blocking this person, I'm guessing every time they pop up and then they're making a new account.
[840] They're making hundreds of accounts.
[841] They're messaging other people.
[842] So what would happen is that when I would message someone online, they would like be in the thread or they'd be watching everything I was doing.
[843] So I'd have to tell people, oh, I'm really sorry.
[844] I've got a stalker.
[845] Like, if you got that message, it's from a stalker.
[846] the, like, message brand sometimes.
[847] It was just really weird behavior.
[848] And at some point it stopped.
[849] It vanished or...
[850] Yeah, it reduced.
[851] It reduced, I'd say.
[852] And then it inevitably, like, disappeared.
[853] I kind of forgot about it, to be honest, after a while.
[854] But I learned how to, like, listen to their speech pattern.
[855] So even if they would create new profiles, I always knew it was them based on the things that they would say and how they would say it.
[856] So they'll try to hide that it was them, but it's like, it's clearly you.
[857] And there's even, like, online forums where people, like, moan about online creators.
[858] And she would, like, she or he would go into the forums and be, like, talking about me. So I would stalk my stalker, right?
[859] So I knew it was them.
[860] And then other people in the forum would be like, you're Patricia Stalker, that they would know it was the stalker.
[861] So, yeah, anyway.
[862] Wow, what a ride.
[863] That made you feel unsafe at any point.
[864] There was nothing where it was like, we know your home address, we're going to, I'm I'm going to come there.
[865] There was some of that.
[866] Oh, really?
[867] So there was some of, so I did a meet and greet an event.
[868] And then they message me, he's like, ha -ha, I was at your meet and greet.
[869] You didn't even know who I was.
[870] You didn't see me. You look so terrible in person.
[871] Next time I'm going to do something, right?
[872] So I remember feeling so anxious and I would, I've logged it.
[873] And I remember like looking through the footage and I was like, who could it be?
[874] Who could it be?
[875] It was like, racking my brain.
[876] It's like, which one is it?
[877] And I think it made me a bit paranoid.
[878] like sure a season.
[879] But I was never scared because I'm from South London.
[880] I'm not scared.
[881] Come to my house.
[882] We'll see.
[883] I even prefer that.
[884] Like, come to my house.
[885] And let's see.
[886] So what's next for you then in your life?
[887] As you look forward, you know, I'm not talking about goals.
[888] I'm just saying the sort of macro, the overall feeling you want from your life and where you want to be.
[889] I think it's being open to more challenges.
[890] that are different to what I'm used to.
[891] I have been making content and creating by myself, for myself, for brands for so long for like 10 years.
[892] And although I think I'm a brave person, I feel like I've got very comfortable.
[893] So I want to set myself out on challenges that are completely outside of my comfort zone, maybe do something that, you know, is unexpected for me. unexpected for me as a creator.
[894] Influencers don't do this or influences of your size don't do this or this kind of thing.
[895] And I really want to work on like creating more products and really building out a brand and not necessarily being the face of everything.
[896] Why?
[897] Why not the face of everything?
[898] So I actually realized though I'm in the public eye to an extent, like I don't really like being famous.
[899] I don't really want to be a personality.
[900] I don't want things to be about me. and I don't know why I put myself out there if I didn't want that but I think fundamentally I'm happy to slink into the background I don't you want that?
[901] I think there are other people who want it more like I don't enjoy being famous as in not that I don't enjoy but I think there are people who like really want to be famous right and there are people who just want to do what they do and do it well and like not just have their own normal friends do that they're only normal things and get on with life.
[902] Like I get on the train every day and I go on the underground and some people are like, you get on the underground.
[903] I'm like, yes, it's quicker.
[904] But I don't want to ever be in a place where I can't get on the underground.
[905] People are stopping you saying, hi, Patricia, can I have?
[906] Yeah.
[907] And you're like, no, COVID.
[908] No, I always say, no, I was like, I'm always friendly.
[909] I guess you can use that fame for things that you do care about there, right?
[910] Like, I like that.
[911] You're right.
[912] You know what I mean?
[913] It's like double ed, double edged sword.
[914] but it costs something, but it creates an opportunity for something in a way.
[915] Oh, yeah, wow.
[916] You just, you just, yeah, you just tell me off there in a good way.
[917] No, I know, I love that.
[918] Yeah, I don't either.
[919] Yeah, I love what you just said that.
[920] You can use the fame for value.
[921] Yeah.
[922] That's kind of what I can, can, the battle I'm having at the moment, because obviously just done Dragon's Den.
[923] Yeah, exactly.
[924] And that's going to be all over the TV and stuff and people are going to start coming up to me and pitching me their businessiders in the street, which I don't want to fuck in here.
[925] Well, I have an idea for you.
[926] No, but you know what I mean?
[927] Like, you're going to get it.
[928] Because I went out with Peter Jones for, like, dinner.
[929] Yeah, yeah.
[930] And he goes, I'm just going to pop to the toilet.
[931] Yeah.
[932] And he takes three steps, and a guy stops him.
[933] Hi, Peter.
[934] I knew you were here.
[935] Pictures him the idea.
[936] The percentage asks it.
[937] And I'm just looking at Peter thinking, that's going to be my fucking life.
[938] Oh, oh, God.
[939] So what's the upside?
[940] What's the, why am I doing this?
[941] Why have I created a plan?
[942] Why have I put myself out there?
[943] And I think, okay, all the other upsides are that it's going to allow me to build things that are more in line with, you know, things I care about.
[944] It gives you a platform and audience.
[945] won't you know?
[946] Yeah, no, I love it.
[947] You're right, you're right.
[948] And I'm battling with the fact that there's clearly a reason why I'm here or why I've got this audience and why I, people connect with me, right?
[949] And actually, maybe it's a good thing that I have no huge desires to be famous.
[950] So I'm going to have to work out how to deal with that attention in a way better and not just think about slinking into the background.
[951] That's how you feel.
[952] slinking into the background I want to be low key like I want to make my videos and it sounds crazy and no one really watched them I like the idea of when things are small because I've been very viral like so I was really viral I was getting like 8 million views of video 13 million views of video and at the time I was like oh this is quite this is a lot for me to like handle because people are like messaging me all the time like Petrajaja and I'd be like hey guys hey So it's not that I want to slink into the background I think I just need to be more comfortable with recognising that, you know, I'm here, I'm doing it but still keep that normality.
[953] That's really important for me. And what have you learned over the, in terms, as it relates to, because I'm thinking now about you've got an entrepreneur over there in the corner, Sophia.
[954] And she's starting a meal prep business.
[955] She's also working in the city and finance.
[956] Okay.
[957] So it's very coincidental that she happens to be here today.
[958] If you were speaking to someone like Sophia, and you were just giving her a bit of advice on how to become as successful in what you do as you have been, what are those underlying principles where you say that really is the thing.
[959] There's no quick route, but that thing there is the thing.
[960] So I think the first thing is leaning into your like authentic tone.
[961] Like what is the thing that makes you or your brand yours and not running away from that and not trying to be something.
[962] else.
[963] It's like learning to not be scared of yourself, this is what we are, this is who I am, this is it, right?
[964] And then consistently putting that out all the time so that people connect with that.
[965] They either connect or they don't, but you only want those who are going to connect with that true version of yourself or your brand.
[966] And then it's, of course, you know, you're going to jump on trends or things that are viral so you can get traction.
[967] That's what I did.
[968] I would jump onto viral trends but do it in my own tone of voice and you know it's the consistency continue I've never done this before but I want to ask Mike a question if I can you can ask Michael a question he's famous Mike I saw you on her Instagram actually with the baby father's day I wanted to ask you from your perspective why do you think Patricia has been so successful in what she's done well I reckon for a number of reasons partly I think it's her personality but she doesn't acknowledge so Patricia Patricia doesn't acknowledge a lot of good things about herself she's definitely 100 % her biggest critic she brings a lot of energy and passion and enthusiasm and stuff so when you watch her you feel good or you feel happy or you feel interested or inspired but something that she doesn't really acknowledge but I think that's a part of it I do think there's certain fundamental like I suppose numerical things like consistency and sticking with it over time and, you know, all those types of feat practices that you could look at from a numbers perspective that help.
[969] So definitely doing that and staying with it and doing, you know, your three uploads a week and your regular posts and all those sort of things that help.
[970] But there's a lot of people that do that and don't have the same level of success, right?
[971] So that's why you have to look at, well, what's the differentiating factors.
[972] So I think there's that.
[973] I think there's an element of her kind of openness and honesty.
[974] And her also because of, I think partly because she's done it a long time, She's very natural and authentic.
[975] So you don't feel like you're watching someone who's performing.
[976] You feel like you're watching someone who is genuinely, you know, giving who they are to you.
[977] And that's rare, right?
[978] So I asked Mike there what, you know, what his, he thought the causal factors behind your success, where he pointed at personality, you being vulnerable and you being authentic.
[979] And, yeah, I mean, that's kind of rare online with the, world we live in with perfection filters and don't share the bad shit.
[980] Yeah.
[981] And I think I'm lucky in that I came up in an age of making content where it was so authentic.
[982] There was no business behind it and it was about connection.
[983] So I had that training.
[984] That was my training gown for being a creator.
[985] Just do what you do.
[986] Don't think about it.
[987] Just do what you like.
[988] So I feel lucky that I've got that as like my basis as creating.
[989] and being an influencer.
[990] Well, I can certainly feel that, and I think it comes through in everything you do, especially the stuff you're doing on the break.
[991] I've never watched videos about finance that seemed to be so entertaining and real and weren't trying to be like snotty financial, like long word business bullshit advice.
[992] Yeah.
[993] So it made it super like inclusive and real.
[994] And obviously that's what's absent in that space.
[995] Exactly.
[996] It's inclusion.
[997] That's why we both probably bought bags.
[998] We shouldn't have bought.
[999] Don't pay on that.
[1000] I definitely shouldn't have bought.
[1001] Definitely.
[1002] So thank you.
[1003] so much, Patricia, for your time today.
[1004] You're such an inspiration to so many.
[1005] And much of the reason for that, in my view, is because you're such a real person.
[1006] Thank you.
[1007] And you're willing to share that realness with everybody.
[1008] What you've done is remarkable.
[1009] And I'm sure this is just the beginning for you.
[1010] You look about 23 as well.
[1011] I was like, you literally look 23, but that's part of the upside of the ethnic background.
[1012] Thank you so much for your time.
[1013] It's such an honor.
[1014] Thank you for having me. It was great to come on and have a chat.
[1015] Thank you.