It's Time To Take Full Control Of Your Finances

[0] from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's the Ramsey Show where we help people.

[2] Do work that they love, build wealth, and create actual amazing relationships.

[3] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one, bestselling author, and host of the ever popular Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co -host today.

[4] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[5] You jump in.

[6] We'll talk about your life and your money.

[7] Spencer is in Memphis to start this hour.

[8] Hey, Spencer, what's up?

[9] Hey, I am calling because I have gotten myself into quite a bit of debt over the past about five years.

[10] And it's come down to, I'm debating if declaring bankruptcy would be one of my options.

[11] Wow.

[12] I'd want to avoid it at all cost, but I don't know what else to do at this point.

[13] Pretty scary, dude.

[14] You married?

[15] Not anymore.

[16] how long you've been split about three and a half years now money play a part in that it did I'm sorry how old are you I am 24 wow um so how much debt have you got uh it started about four years ago and I got 20 it's about $23 ,000 worth right now 23 ,000 in debt on what?

[17] I had two vehicles, and then I got a $3 ,000 personal loan, two credit cards, three credit cards.

[18] They were only like $500 a piece, and then I had a military star credit card as well that went into collections.

[19] So how much of the $23 ,000 is the credit cards?

[20] Maybe $1 ,500, maybe $1 ,000, maybe $1 ,000.

[21] Oh, okay.

[22] Do you currently own two cars?

[23] I do not, and that's the problem.

[24] I lost just about everything during the divorce, but I ended up keeping the debt for it.

[25] So, wait a minute.

[26] She's driving both of the cars?

[27] No, it's kind of a long story.

[28] Long story short, whenever I went through the divorce, she took one of the vehicles, and she had it for about two years, refused to sign divorce papers.

[29] I couldn't file the car as stolen because she was my wife.

[30] She would never pay on it.

[31] So I ended up not paying for it at all.

[32] They couldn't repossess it because I didn't know where it was.

[33] And then, so that was one car.

[34] Where is that car today?

[35] It finally got repossessed, but now I still owe 9 ,000 left on it.

[36] Okay, she have a repo of 9K.

[37] All right.

[38] Where's the other car?

[39] The other one, as I got it, I never turned in the title to it to the bank, so I ended up, I believe it turned into a personal loan or a vehicle loan with no collateral.

[40] That one was for $6 ,000.

[41] Where is that car?

[42] Technically, I do have a car to show for that.

[43] I have a 2008 Yukon and a...

[44] Okay, so it didn't have a lien on it, and you sold it and bought a Yukon.

[45] Correct.

[46] Okay.

[47] And what's your Yukon worth?

[48] Uh, maybe five grand.

[49] I could probably get five grand for it.

[50] Okay.

[51] And it doesn't have a lien on it?

[52] No, it does not.

[53] I have the title.

[54] Okay.

[55] And what do you make?

[56] I make, I just got a new job making 58 a year.

[57] Okay.

[58] All right.

[59] You're not bankrupt.

[60] You're scared and you're hurting.

[61] Correct.

[62] But you're mathematically not bankrupt.

[63] Hear me. No, sir.

[64] I've been doing this a long time.

[65] You just don't know what to do next.

[66] That's all.

[67] Correct.

[68] Okay.

[69] you're hurting because all this stuff was out of your control the divorce broke your heart and you've just kind of swept stuff under the rug and now you've got a really lumpy rug exactly yeah and um this stuff has a high rate of resurrection it comes back to life zombie money problems yeah they don't die they just keep coming out of the grave and they're uglier every time they come out until you shoot them okay now uh So here's the thing.

[70] If you file Chapter 7 bankruptcy, you can clear every bit of this, and you'll keep your Yukon under current law in the state of Tennessee, and you live in Memphis, okay?

[71] So that is possible.

[72] I would not recommend it, though.

[73] You can settle repo debt for somewhere around 15 to 20 cents on the dollar, and a lot of your debt is repo debt.

[74] So if we're looking at $20 ,000, $4 ,000 or $5 ,000 will clear that.

[75] with some negotiation and some fight, okay?

[76] But you got to call them up, like the $9 ,000.

[77] They'll probably take $1 ,500 ,000, and clear that on the ex -wife's car that you never really figured out, whatever, all that stuff, right?

[78] Right, right, right.

[79] So if you call those people, it's not $9 ,000, it's $2 ,000, because that's about what you can satellite for, because they're just going to be so happy somebody called, because they can't find nobody in this story.

[80] They're everybody, even the freaking car.

[81] disappeared in this story, right?

[82] So, yeah.

[83] And so if you don't pay anyone and file bankruptcy, you could do the same thing and just not pay anyone and not file, then the only thing that could happen is they could come and sue you.

[84] Okay, but none of them have yet.

[85] None of them have yet.

[86] Yes, not yet, correct.

[87] I have a court hearing in July for, I got a set of rims and tires after I got out of the military, and I honestly never paid on it.

[88] Okay.

[89] So here's the thing.

[90] Can I be mean to you for just a second in the middle of all your pain?

[91] I need to hear it.

[92] Okay.

[93] You got to quit buying crap that you don't have money for.

[94] Absolutely.

[95] Period.

[96] Period.

[97] And okay.

[98] Like, I mean, rims and tires sounds like a 16 -year -old.

[99] Absolutely.

[100] Okay.

[101] But that's kind of what you are when you're coming out of the military for the free.

[102] Yeah.

[103] So, yeah, I mean, so let's throw our shoulders back and start acting like we're 30 or 40.

[104] with our maturity level on our decisions rather than a wounded 24 -year -old guy who's had the snot beat out of him, okay?

[105] Absolutely.

[106] And I think you can do that, and we'll help you.

[107] So what I'm going to do is I'm going to assign a Ramsey counselor to you for free, and they're going to walk you through step by step how to clear every one of these debts.

[108] It's going to take you about maybe a year to clear them all and to negotiate.

[109] and you're going to have to be tough and you're going to have to quit buying crap okay can you do those two things if I help you absolutely okay so what I'm saying is 23 ,000 we can probably get all that cleared for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 and you make 50 you can do that in a year but you're not scratch and argue with these people a little bit and get it done absolutely yeah and so if you file bankruptcy when you could have cleared it for $12 ,000 that'd be just silly I would agree with that 100%.

[110] That's why I needed somebody to tell me. All right.

[111] So you're a good man, Spencer.

[112] You've just been hurting.

[113] Does that give you, does that give you peace, Spencer?

[114] They'll give you some grit?

[115] It did.

[116] That helped a lot.

[117] It did.

[118] Because I felt like I was on the edge of the walkboard for quite a while now.

[119] She beat you up pretty good?

[120] Yeah.

[121] It wasn't nice.

[122] Is there a little one involved, too?

[123] Not at the time.

[124] I do have one now, yes.

[125] Okay.

[126] you're 24 right now correct when you get done with you I want you to write 30 year old Spencer a letter about the man you are going to be when you're 30 no more kids unless you're married no more borrowing money no more buying stupid things so you can look cool to 18 year olds I want you to write 30 year old Spencer a letter and I want you to live into that got it I can do that cool man hey I was 28 when I filed bankruptcy I'm 63 now and I'm a multimillionaire.

[127] You're going to be okay, son.

[128] Hold on, we'll pick up and get you dialed in.

[129] This is the Ramsey Show.

[130] So here's a quick math refresher.

[131] There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money.

[132] So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system.

[133] NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform.

[134] So join the more than 37 ,000 smart businesses like Ramsey solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite.

[135] And right now you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[136] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[137] Open phones at AAA 8255 -225.

[138] You jump in.

[139] talk about your life and your money.

[140] Dr. John Deloney is my co -host today.

[141] John, I love the suggestion as we're going to the break with the young guy to write his future self a letter.

[142] I kind of almost feel like we all ought to do that.

[143] Like there's just a, there's something about what do you want to be when you grow up, you know, kind of thing.

[144] Yeah.

[145] Who do you want to be?

[146] I just keep going back to that conversation that was such a before and after that I had with my wife when she She asked, like, what do you want this house to feel like when you walk in from work?

[147] And I was like, well, I want it to feel warm and I want to feel, I want us to be laughing when I walk in.

[148] Not both of us be so tense.

[149] And then that started a conversation.

[150] Well, then here's what's got to be different?

[151] And I just wonder, what do I want it to feel like when I'm 40?

[152] When I would feel like when I'm 60?

[153] What do I want my relationship with my kids to be like?

[154] And what do I have to do right now to live into that?

[155] That's so different than let's just get to the next day and the next day and the next day and you wake up and you're 100 miles from your original destination.

[156] I just love that idea of sitting down to being intentional.

[157] Where do I want to be, man?

[158] Yeah, because you just don't...

[159] Or more important, who do I want to be, right?

[160] You don't accidentally become good things.

[161] No. You accidentally become bad things.

[162] And life happens, and I get really mad, and I start to spin and make a decision.

[163] I don't ever do.

[164] You've never done this, but I find myself way over here.

[165] And it's just, I like the idea of 55 -year -old John going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[166] Like letting him be a little bit of a guide for me, right?

[167] right?

[168] Yep, absolutely.

[169] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[170] Aaron is in North Carolina.

[171] Hi, Aaron.

[172] How are you?

[173] I'm doing great, Dave.

[174] Thank you and John so much for taking my call.

[175] Sure.

[176] What's up?

[177] So my wife and I just bought a house, and I'm feeling a little buyer's remorse, and I just wanted to get y 'all's take on our financial situation to see if there's some validity in what I'm feeling, or if it's just, you know, I'm just in my head on it.

[178] I'll give you just a rough kind of breakdown of our financial.

[179] Before you do that, just tell me what the house payment is.

[180] 3 ,700.

[181] Okay, and what's your take -home pay in the house?

[182] 180 a year, roughly 9 ,500 to 10 ,000 per month?

[183] No, it's not.

[184] Something's wrong.

[185] I'm talking about take -home after taxes.

[186] 180 is not 10 ,000.

[187] $10 ,000 is $120.

[188] You don't have $60 ,000 worth of taxes on $180.

[189] You don't.

[190] Well, no, okay, so are you taking that 401K and all that?

[191] No, I'm not.

[192] Taxes only.

[193] Oh, taxes only?

[194] I don't know the number off.

[195] Yeah, so it's probably, okay.

[196] So how much are you putting into your 401K?

[197] Currently, I'm 10%, and my life is 10%.

[198] Okay, all right.

[199] So that's $18 ,000.

[200] so that makes sense then all right because your take -home pay not counting your 401k would be more like 14 okay something like that and um 401k health insurance whatever else the crap's coming out of there because something's coming out of there but that's what it ought to be because 180s 15 a month okay so you'd be at 13 and 3 ,700 is not out of line then that's my point I had to get to real take -on pay for I sold your house and now we don't have to sell your house So that's good.

[201] So my wife will enjoy that.

[202] So you're the saver and she's the spender.

[203] You're the nerd and she's the free spirit.

[204] Yes.

[205] And you feel like you cave, you feel like you caved and bought something you can't afford.

[206] Well, we're good on the house.

[207] The only debt that we have in our names is a car.

[208] And my biggest stress right now is, I have $85 ,000 in the bank.

[209] the car i have i was 39 on my car write a check and pay it off today okay i was going to go sell it and buy beater just well you can still sell it later and buy beater if you want to but for today let's get rid of the stress okay all right and you guys are not doing a written monthly budget called every dollar on the every dollar app where both of you agree on every dollar before the month begins where it's going and what its name is and if you'll start doing that you'll feel much more in control.

[210] It'll give you a lot of it.

[211] It'll give you a lot of peace.

[212] It may cause some fights because it may expose what some people in the house are spending and it's not you.

[213] Yeah, you're correct.

[214] And we did do the every dollar app and we're able to save around $2 ,200 a month, but for some reason that just seemed low and I got on Reddit, which I shouldn't have done.

[215] Everybody was like, oh, your house floor and I just started freaking out.

[216] Listen, Reddit is not.

[217] Reddit is not a source of anything except trouble.

[218] No, Reddit is for if you're feeling exceptionally well and you're like, you know what I need in my life?

[219] A little depression.

[220] Then you should read Reddit.

[221] Other than that.

[222] If you get a medical diagnosis, if you go to Reddit, you're dead by morning.

[223] The only thing that will kill you faster is WebMD.

[224] They'll kill you.

[225] They'll kill you within the hour.

[226] So seriously, you're right.

[227] So, Daniel, what you guys need to do is you need to get above this.

[228] and think about your source of information, and we are making fun of Reddit, but it's not a good source, okay?

[229] And because the numbers you're giving me, nothing's out of control, I think what I'm hearing is a good guy who's a nerd, who's very responsible like me. I'm a nerd.

[230] And your wife has not let up on the spending.

[231] You all are not in agreement.

[232] You've been kind of swinging at this whole money thing instead of actually making it dance, getting it in line and making every dollar dance, and both of you being in agreement paying off the car and then I think you're going to have a lot of peace the numbers you're giving me are not stupid if they were you know I'd tell you Aaron can I ask you a few other peripheral questions Yes sir You got any friends Oh yeah That you go hang out with once a week Yes What's the state of your health What's the state of my health?

[233] You exercise you go for walks every day Oh yeah yeah work out six days a week okay um eat clean what's the state of your marriage great really good really good i think my biggest i just want to be a good dad i want to be a good husband i want to lead my my family to to wealth and i didn't come from that so i just strive for that okay there it is there it is yeah you don't want to screw this up so you're walking a tightrope yeah i get that good man good for you that's a good motivation as long as it doesn't take it so far you can't sleep at night that's right i'm going to send you or if it doesn't take you to Reddit.

[234] Yeah, exactly.

[235] I'm going to send you building a non -anxious life.

[236] I want you and your wife to go through that book together.

[237] Yeah.

[238] And then you guys jump on every dollar of the app and get it going to and make sure you get this stuff dialed in because I think you're there.

[239] I think if you get 100 % alignment with her using the budgeting process called every dollar, that's going to, and you're probably 85 right now, okay?

[240] If you get 100 % control and command over the dollars and you're probably 90, 90 % on that, okay, and you pay off the car, then you're going to, and you start doing the Ramsey stuff the rest of the way and quit issuing it, then I think you're going to find an immense flip from the, I think that little bit of lack of alignment and then this tremendous drive to be a good guy is where you're disconnected, is your dissonance.

[241] Yeah.

[242] And yeah, his body put a GPS pin in money worries.

[243] And so it's just he's got a new big debt.

[244] and he's got a kid and his body's sounding all the alarms.

[245] It's going back to those ratios.

[246] And you and I've talked about that offline.

[247] Those are just important things.

[248] I'm doing it right.

[249] We're safe.

[250] I'm doing good.

[251] I'm doubling up on my payments when I can.

[252] I'm taking overtime when I can.

[253] I'm getting the stuff done.

[254] And you slowly practice that.

[255] Yeah.

[256] But when you do something that your inner voice, the Holy Spirit's telling you not to do, and then don't be shocked that you're stressed.

[257] Right, exactly.

[258] So when you buy a house while you have a $39 ,000 car debt and you knew you shouldn't, don't be shocked that it's upsetting.

[259] Right.

[260] Or one step further, if your parents were screaming at each other growing up over their house payment, even if you put 50 % down and you buy a house, expect your body to feel a little tense that's okay I know that I have to outsource that because when I get emotional I get real emotional and I get real I start making decisions fast and I get a friend or two or I get somebody that I trust to say okay I'm about to do something uncharacteristic I'm about to sell my house we just bought is this wise and then you can get some exhale in your life and they'll go no I got your six you're doing good it's helpful it's what this show is right when things are in when you do things that are inconsistent with you believe the people in John's world call that dissonance.

[261] There's a disconnect.

[262] Your actions are perpendicular to your belief 100 % time you get stress.

[263] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[264] Hey good folks, the back to school madness is upon us.

[265] It's hitting us right now.

[266] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[267] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[268] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[269] Here's what I've learned.

[270] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[271] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[272] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[273] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[274] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[275] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[276] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[277] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[278] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[279] Never skip therapy day.

[280] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[281] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[282] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[283] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[284] Well, John, it's finally happened.

[285] My 35 -year stellar career has been reduced to selling T -shirts.

[286] Finally.

[287] We get some Ramsey cool gear, dude.

[288] I thought.

[289] I thought I was an important author, and now I sell T -shirts.

[290] So we have better than I deserve T -shirts.

[291] Finally.

[292] We have food at home is the T -shirt.

[293] That's a great T -shirt.

[294] I got that one.

[295] That one is correct me up.

[296] A T -shirt that says better than I deserve.

[297] And some cool sweatshirts that say debt -free.

[298] I guess I should hold them up for you, YouTube people.

[299] Yeah, because YouTube people need debt -free.

[300] Where do we're right there it is right there.

[301] Okay.

[302] So I model it, Dave.

[303] Come on, do your Van der White, Dave.

[304] Come on, buddy.

[305] And I'm drinking out of my own better than I deserve Yeti because God knows I didn't have enough Yetis.

[306] So I needed like, they breed like rabbits.

[307] Dude, they are.

[308] They breed everywhere.

[309] And then we got our version of the Stanley Cup thing over here, whatever that is.

[310] Is that?

[311] They'll live like no one else.

[312] Yeah, but it's the, what are they called?

[313] What are the women call that thing?

[314] Stanley.

[315] It is Stanley.

[316] Yeah, that's the brand.

[317] The Stanley Cup.

[318] I was like a hockey for a minute, but, you know.

[319] My brother -in -law works on the railroad, and he's had a Stanley for 117 years, and his daughters were like, Dad, we want Stanley, and he goes like this, and they all went, oh.

[320] He does.

[321] He's got the real green one.

[322] Dad's way.

[323] Yeah.

[324] Dad's got it going on.

[325] Made by Aladdin, I think it was, yeah.

[326] So, anyway, you've been asking for the Ramsey merch shirts, tumblers, hats, better than I deserve hat.

[327] Yep.

[328] T -shirts, Yeties.

[329] Yep, you got them.

[330] We got food at home.

[331] I can't believe that one.

[332] popular but you're wearing that one you said huh yeah i like that one cracks me up yeah okay so you've got a story the world needs to hear you can kick off some conversations i'm not crazy i'm just getting out of debt and uh it's kind of fun and these it's high quality you know the new soft kind of t -shirts yeah that all feel like pajamas now yeah everything's you know the little scratchy cotton t -shirts are kind of gone these softy ones are yeah well it's yeah it's it's it's fun i'm glad we're doing it Listening to you sell clothes is one of the funniest most awkward moments of my professional life.

[333] I'm just saying it was, I'm going, you know, yeah, Ramsey Solutions changed my life.

[334] I bought a hat from them.

[335] Oh, yeah, that just.

[336] I will work so hard to get an underwear endorsement from somebody just so you have to pitch it.

[337] Not a chance.

[338] It's amazing.

[339] Just so you have to pitch it.

[340] All right.

[341] Ramsey Solutions .com slash store.

[342] Check out all the new merch.

[343] It's awesome.

[344] It is actually high -quality merch.

[345] I hope we're charging a lot for it because it's just embarrassing that we're doing it.

[346] So anyway, there we're doing it.

[347] Hey, for years, people have been showing up with their homemade, they make their own.

[348] That's true.

[349] That's true.

[350] This is good stuff.

[351] That's, yeah.

[352] That's not on me, though.

[353] No. This is on me. Nah.

[354] This is good.

[355] Happened on my watch right here.

[356] Well, it allows people to be a, we say it all the time, like we don't, we don't do big $400 million sponsorships.

[357] Like, word of mouth.

[358] They can be a walking bill.

[359] board for us.

[360] They are like, they don't have to say anything if you got a little social awkwardness.

[361] Just be drinking out of your better than I deserve Yeti.

[362] That's right.

[363] There we go.

[364] Coffee, by the way.

[365] Or where you're debt -free.

[366] Because who at the mall doesn't want to know what your net worth is?

[367] That's important to just announce it.

[368] I see.

[369] Put some sweet tea in the Yeti and go for a wall.

[370] Here we go.

[371] Yeah, that's what's in your sweet tea for sure.

[372] Yeah.

[373] All right.

[374] Daniel's in Detroit.

[375] Hey, Daniel, what's up?

[376] Hello.

[377] A lot of debt.

[378] How can we help, sir?

[379] Well, I'm going to be having a baby soon, like two months.

[380] Yay!

[381] Yeah, I've been fighting every month trying to get myself back on track.

[382] I fell behind on bills a few months ago, and I haven't gotten anywhere with it.

[383] I'm just over $200 ,000 in debt, and I'm trying to figure out what my best options are to get back ahead.

[384] What kind of debt is the $200K, bro?

[385] I've got 163 ,000 in a house.

[386] I've got two cars and about...

[387] How much on car one?

[388] How much on car one?

[389] 19 ,000.

[390] How much on car two?

[391] 15 ,000.

[392] Okay.

[393] That was co -signed on that one.

[394] I'm sorry?

[395] I co -signed on the second one, but...

[396] For who?

[397] My wife.

[398] Yeah, like if you have a baby with somebody, you can buy a car with them too it's okay all right and so um yeah you've made a human you can share a checking account all right and so the um all right so that that that's 34 so you only got a little bit of mainly card debt and house debt right what's the other debt um i've got 6 ,000 uh between credit cards and uh tools yeah tools what you do for living avionics tech okay and what's your household income sir um about It's about $50 ,000 right now for a while.

[399] It went way down.

[400] I had to drain my savings account and everything.

[401] Why did it go down?

[402] The hours.

[403] I was lacking in hours at work.

[404] And then my wife, she ended up getting really sick for a little bit and was out of work.

[405] But she's finally back to work, but there's no savings account left to fall back out.

[406] So between the two of you, both of you working, you make a lot of you?

[407] $50 ,000?

[408] Yes.

[409] Yeah, she's back, she's only part -time right now.

[410] Okay, because I was under the impression avionics techs made more money than that.

[411] Yeah, it may be higher.

[412] I'm just kind of giving me a rough estimate.

[413] Things are looking better, and I'm working more hours.

[414] I'm bringing in...

[415] You work on airplanes, dude, right?

[416] Yeah, yeah.

[417] Okay.

[418] All right.

[419] What are you making an hour?

[420] 30 an hour.

[421] How many hours a week are you getting?

[422] I'm finally back to about 40 right now, and I'm trying to push for 50 to 60.

[423] Okay.

[424] You're making more than $50 ,000 here.

[425] Okay.

[426] You're doing your math wrong.

[427] Yeah, that's helpful.

[428] But between hours going down temporarily and her being sick and now a baby coming, the stress of all that, you're just, you've been out of control, and all the money is in total chaos.

[429] Is that right?

[430] Yeah, absolutely.

[431] It seems like I'm just getting my paycheck and that's completely gone and we still don't have bills paid.

[432] What does she do for a living?

[433] She's a hairstylist.

[434] Okay.

[435] All right, cool.

[436] All right.

[437] Well, here's the thing that I know.

[438] I know that if the two of you sit down together tonight with the TV off after dinner, breathe, and start writing down what you've got coming in right now and what you could have coming.

[439] in in the future.

[440] You can see your way to getting these two straightened out.

[441] Whose car is the $19 ,000 car?

[442] Mine.

[443] Good.

[444] What is it worth?

[445] I'm real upside down on that one.

[446] I was going to sell it not too long ago, and I checked into it, and it's blue booking at about $8 ,000 right now.

[447] That'd be trade -in.

[448] Yeah.

[449] Trade -in, they were saying five.

[450] What'd you do, tear it up?

[451] Did you roll a bunch of negative equity into it?

[452] Nope.

[453] I did not.

[454] What is it?

[455] It's a Chevy Silverado, 2012.

[456] Chevy Silveradoes do not get that far upside down without some other piece of circumstance involved.

[457] You've torn it up.

[458] There's extra miles or you rolled negative equity from the deal before into it.

[459] No, I didn't have a car loan before.

[460] Oh, wait a minute.

[461] Wait a minute.

[462] Wait a minute.

[463] Wait a minute.

[464] Is this a high interest rate loan?

[465] Yes.

[466] $19 ,000 is not your payoff balance.

[467] $19 ,000 is the balance on the account.

[468] There's a difference.

[469] On a high interest subprime loan, they book it on TOP, total of payments.

[470] $19 ,000 is your total of payments.

[471] If you take a check over there today and pay them off, it's more like $15 ,000.

[472] Okay.

[473] So you need to call them and ask them not what your account balance is, but what your payoff is today.

[474] So you're not nearly as upside down as you thought you were.

[475] So I knew there's something wrong with that math.

[476] Okay.

[477] Now, so here's the prescription for this.

[478] The great news is you feel the pressure because you're a good dad, going to be a good dad of a baby coming.

[479] And that's going to make you guys sit down and get control of this and not spend any money except food, lights and water, shelter, and get caught up.

[480] And oddly enough, sir, you make enough.

[481] to do all of those.

[482] It's very possible.

[483] And don't count that mortgage in your debt right this second.

[484] Let's worry about those bills and those debts and we'll get that stuff squared away.

[485] First thing I want to is be current and in control.

[486] There you go.

[487] And you're not that yet.

[488] I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[489] Yeah.

[490] And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[491] People that call in and they're spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

[492] When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills?

[493] I'm going to eat next week.

[494] Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

[495] Like it's just, it is.

[496] It's terrible.

[497] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[498] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[499] And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[500] It doesn't cost much.

[501] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[502] You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[503] The cost of stinking pizza.

[504] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -4282.

[505] That's 800 -356 -4282 or go to Xander .com.

[506] Guys, thanks for joining us here on the Ramsey Show.

[507] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, best -selling author, is my co -host today.

[508] Open phones at AAA -25 -2 -2 -25.

[509] If you like this show, we can always use your help.

[510] you are our only marketing plan which is awesome actually because the best products in the world are spread by word of mouth so click share on the on the you know if you're listening on a podcast or watching on YouTube or whatever click the share button and let people know or click the link cut the link out and send it to somebody in your email and tell them to start listening to this show so you got to check this out got to check these guys out and subscribe that's a big one and follow that's a big one click those buttons and and of course leaving five -star reviews all of those things actually change the algorithm in these different platforms and causes them to promote us and and they do it for free because you are telling them we're awesome because you're awesome so thank you thank you for doing that leases in portland to Oregon.

[511] Hi, Lisa.

[512] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[513] Thank you.

[514] I, my husband passed away unexpectedly a couple months ago, and he was kind of in charge of all of our monies and stuff, and I'm to get through this call without crying.

[515] No, you're not, because I'm not.

[516] Yeah, you don't have to, you're good.

[517] So, how old are you?

[518] I'm 54, and we've been married for next month would be 36 years.

[519] What happened to him, hon?

[520] He just went to sleep, I guess.

[521] and didn't wake up.

[522] What was his name?

[523] Troy.

[524] Well, we can all be envious of that methodology, can't we?

[525] Yeah, that is one thing I'm at peace with.

[526] Yeah.

[527] He liked to be home, and here he was.

[528] There it is, just like that.

[529] Wow.

[530] I'm so sorry.

[531] So you got babies, you got any babies at home?

[532] I got three grown children that are all married.

[533] Good, good.

[534] So it's you, and you said you're up in the air on the money stuff then, right?

[535] yeah yeah so he did set me up I'll be okay but I just don't know what to do with everything and do I pay my house off with life insurance that I got how much life insurance did you get I have um right now I have five hundred and what right now I think I'm I end up with yeah then I'll get then I'll have I think another hundred thousand but and then in monthly I think I added it up and I think I should be get at least 7000 a month Boy, I love your husband I know, so do we What a great job, Troy.

[536] We did so bad when we were young, yeah, that we, he just said, no way, we got to turn it around, so we did.

[537] Yeah, well, and he left your set with having no idea that he was going away at 50.

[538] That's pretty crazy.

[539] That's young.

[540] Yep, completely, I know.

[541] Every day I live, that looks younger.

[542] Oh, my gosh.

[543] Um, the, um, all right, so you only owe on your home.

[544] What do you owe on it?

[545] I owe 240.

[546] Okay.

[547] And do you work?

[548] I do not work.

[549] Okay.

[550] But you got $7 ,000 a month coming in.

[551] Mm -hmm.

[552] For life?

[553] Where's that coming from?

[554] That's going to be for life.

[555] What's that from?

[556] Military.

[557] And then he was, um, he also from his, he was a police officer.

[558] These guys are freaking.

[559] I have that retirement, too.

[560] This dude's amazing, huh?

[561] What a great guy.

[562] Oh, my gosh.

[563] Yes.

[564] All right.

[565] All in the fault of the earth.

[566] Yeah.

[567] Okay, so let me play pretend.

[568] I'm just, look, do you have any other debt?

[569] I have two credit cards that are about $12 ,000.

[570] Okay.

[571] All right.

[572] And I own my cars, though, so there's nothing else.

[573] If you didn't have a car payment and you didn't have any credit card debt, I mean, you didn't have a house payment.

[574] And you didn't have any credit card debt.

[575] I think you can make it on $7 ,000 a month, don't you?

[576] Mm -hmm, definitely.

[577] Are you going to get on a written budget so you don't screw this up?

[578] Yes.

[579] Okay.

[580] Because people can screw this up.

[581] Oh, I know.

[582] Okay.

[583] So that's what's scaring you.

[584] Yeah.

[585] That's what's scaring you.

[586] I don't want to, this is all.

[587] Troy did such a good job, and I don't want to mess it up.

[588] That's what's bothering you.

[589] Am I right?

[590] Yes, it's totally it.

[591] Good, good.

[592] Okay.

[593] That's a good motivation.

[594] I don't want you to live in the terror of that because I want to give you the information so you are doing it right.

[595] But if I had you on a detailed written budget monthly where you knew that you were easily living on $7 ,000, which you should easily do with no house payment.

[596] Oh, yes.

[597] Okay.

[598] You cut up the stupid credit cards and never borrow money for anything ever again.

[599] Say, I promise, Dave.

[600] I promise on that one, Dave.

[601] So we're not going to have any debt, and we have a paid for a house, and we got $350 ,000 to invest.

[602] and we have $7 ,000 a month coming in.

[603] Am I missing something?

[604] No. That's a pretty strong position.

[605] I think you and Troy did a good job.

[606] Here's the one, Lisa, I'm going to inject a question here to you, but Dave, I'm asking it to you too.

[607] Lisa, is there a chance that in six months when the smoke clears, you want to go live by some of your grandbabies?

[608] No, I'm going to stay in the house.

[609] I have three grandbabies close to me here, and then I'm having a new one in Montana.

[610] Okay, awesome.

[611] Normally I tell somebody don't do anything for six months.

[612] Don't pay off and just sit, but this is where you want to be.

[613] This is where your family is where the little ones are.

[614] This is your home, right?

[615] Oh, yeah.

[616] I'll add to that question then.

[617] I'll just go ahead and be real tacky.

[618] Okay.

[619] You said he died in his sleep.

[620] In the home?

[621] Yes.

[622] Okay.

[623] Are you going to be okay living there then?

[624] Yes.

[625] Okay.

[626] He's here.

[627] Okay.

[628] Okay.

[629] All right.

[630] Have you gone through the clothes yet or anything?

[631] Nope, it's staying forever Okay So here's I'm going to tell you And you're not going to believe me But I'm just going to tell you That's about 98 % of the people Like you have had the blessing of honor to sit with The first couple of months out And it's all good And there's no rush Okay Okay But in nine months Two years Four years We'll see Right?

[632] And that's not a You don't solve for that right now Yeah The longer it goes The weirder it is That you still got the close but today is fine today's fine today's great 27 years from now if those clothes are still hanging there that's an issue okay I'm just saying but today today you're fine yeah just let it go it's part of you grieving okay it's part of grieving and you you're strong lady some comfort hey and you did get through this without bawling good for you and I almost did I only had one little tear but I cried at Applebee's commercials so um okay okay can I ask you one more thing uh -huh um and this is not money related I grew up in the home of a police officer too, okay?

[633] Oh, okay.

[634] There is an extra layer of, and I still feel it.

[635] My dad's in his 70s, and I'm in my mid -40s.

[636] And there's still a level of when I get around my dad, I just exhale because policemen walk around as though everything's going to be okay.

[637] Yes, exactly.

[638] I want you to make sure you have somebody to call because you're going to lean on a crutch that's not there anymore.

[639] he's in your heart but he's not going to be there in that restaurant he's not and you know he would always sit up against the back of the room and now you're going to right so he's got all those little things that you always had that extra layer of everything's going to be okay and your body's going to feel if that's gone because it is okay because it's gone and I want you to have somebody you can reach out to yeah are you in a good church Lisa yes good okay here's what we're going to do here's what we're going to do I've been doing this 35 years and I've sat with people exactly where you are hundreds and hundreds of times and you and i just went through the numbers and everyone listened to us go through them your numbers are just fine you're just fine you were married to a wonderful man who did a wonderful job making sure you were going to be okay and you are okay i would pay off my house i'd pay off my house and i'd get on a written budget and i'd pay off those credit cards and i would cut them up and i'm going to put you into financial peace university so you learn how to handle money so you feel confident in this subject area going forward.

[640] Okay.

[641] And I'm going to have you sit with a Ramsey coach that's been trained by us at my expense.

[642] You're going to pay nothing for any of this, okay?

[643] Oh, okay.

[644] Okay.

[645] Because we're people of faith, and our book tells us to take care of orphans and widows.

[646] And we go by the book.

[647] Okay.

[648] All right.

[649] Thank you.

[650] Mm -hmm.

[651] All right.

[652] You hang on.

[653] And we'll have the team pick up in there and get you signed up for financial peace and get you with a coach.

[654] You're going to be fine, honey.

[655] You're in really good shape.

[656] This is my dream, Dave.

[657] Yeah.

[658] Hey, guys.

[659] Here's the deal.

[660] This is it.

[661] She just told you what it means when you put life insurance in place, have a will in place, and have your pensions lined up and so forth to make sure that your family's taking care of.

[662] It's how you say I love you.

[663] Now, the rest of you that are listening to this, get your butt in, gear and get over at zander insurance and make sure that you're troy because all of you ought to be troy this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships the phone numbers triple eight eight two five five dr john deloney ramsie personality host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and author of a couple of number one bestselling books, the latest building a non -anxious life.

[664] He's my co -host.

[665] Triple -8 -825 -5 -225, Auburn, Alabama, Ashton is calling.

[666] Hi, Ashton.

[667] What's up?

[668] Hey, how are y 'all?

[669] Better than we deserve.

[670] How are y 'all?

[671] We're good.

[672] I'm so happy y 'all took my question because we really need some help with this.

[673] We'll give it a shot.

[674] Okay, so me and my husband were 25, and a year ago we purchased a camper and a truck because the payments on that were going to be cheaper than what our apartment was going to be, which is going to be almost $3 ,400.

[675] And now we're stuck with a camper and truck, and we're going through baby steps, and we're trying to figure out if it's worth keeping the pay down until it's out of the upside down, or to sell and then pay on the upside down.

[676] Do you still live in it?

[677] No, we do not.

[678] My mom has a rental house that became available, so we lived in the rental house now.

[679] So the plan that it was cheaper was not executed.

[680] Well, yes, it's not cheaper if you didn't need.

[681] Now you just have a camper payment.

[682] Yes, now we just have a camper payment, which we are renting it out currently as of like an Airbnb vacation.

[683] And it's paying for it, but we're worried when summer's over.

[684] if it's not i just don't want to have that what is if it doesn't get paid for so we how much do you owe on the camper a hundred and fifteen thousand good gosh holy jesus it's like an apartment on wheels it has a washer and dryer i think i said it's a massive fifth wheel what do you all make a year um last year together we made i think a hundred and forty five thousand.

[685] I'm a hairstylist and he at the time with a firefighter paramedic.

[686] And y 'all are 20, do you say 24?

[687] Yeah, we were 24 at the time.

[688] And they loaned you $15 ,000 on a camper.

[689] I'd appreciate it.

[690] Yeah, I don't know how that was possible because we couldn't get a house.

[691] No one would loan us a house or get us a mortgage for a house with me being a hairstylist and my income fluctuating wasn't a fixed income.

[692] I love you, but you're like, you're the dumbest smart person I've talked to you today.

[693] I'm trembling to ask this question.

[694] Have you figured out what the actual value of the camper is today?

[695] The actual value of the camper is 90 ,000.

[696] And you owe one, one five?

[697] Yes, 115.

[698] So you're 25 in the hole.

[699] Yeah, but if you go to camping world and they want to like buy that from you, it's, they offered me like 63 ,000.

[700] I'm sure they did.

[701] And the And now I know the news is going to get worse, but I have to just keep going.

[702] How much do we owe on the truck?

[703] The truck is $50 ,000.

[704] I'm laughing with you, not at you, Ashton.

[705] No, no, I'm laughing at myself, too, because you had to get a truck to pull the camper.

[706] And have you priced the truck's current value?

[707] his trade in value when we talked to a dealership was 42 ,000 I believe okay so you can get close to what it's worth if you private sell it or close to what you owe if your private sell it because trade in value doesn't work okay do you guys have any money like saved up like money yeah yeah we went we're in the emergency fund saved up and now we're just the $1 ,000 a credit card you have $1 ,000 Okay.

[708] Yes, and then we're just dumping all the extra money we have into credit cards to get them finished.

[709] And how much do you have in credit card debt?

[710] Total $7 ,000.

[711] Okay, good.

[712] All right.

[713] And then my car is $10 ,000.

[714] Your car's what?

[715] My car is $10 ,000.

[716] Okay, okay, good.

[717] All right.

[718] And I assume you've been so far paying everything on time, and so your credit's probably stellar.

[719] Yeah, our credit is still good, thankfully.

[720] It's still very good.

[721] Okay.

[722] The longer you wait to sell the camper every day that you wait, the spread between what you owe and its value gets wider, agreed?

[723] The value is going down faster than the loan balance, agreed?

[724] Yes, yes, sir.

[725] So we don't want to delay.

[726] We want to sell the camper as soon as we possibly can sell it without giving it away to camper world or whatever they're called.

[727] I don't want to go over there again, but at 63 ,000, no, we're not doing that, but if we can get 90 for it, or 89 or 92 or 85, the sucker's gone.

[728] Okay, so get it up for sale today.

[729] And then you're going to have to go to the credit union.

[730] Where's this loan?

[731] Is it camping world gave you the loan to?

[732] Yes, it's the reliant credit union, I believe.

[733] Of course it is, yeah.

[734] Of course it is.

[735] That's who makes loans like this.

[736] They're probably not going to be any health, but contact them and ask them if you can sign a note for the difference unsecured.

[737] So you sell it for 90.

[738] You sell it for 90.

[739] You owe 115.

[740] You're going to have a $25 ,000 note with a lion if you did that.

[741] Otherwise, you've got to go to your credit union or your local bank and get them to loan you $25 ,000.

[742] And do it like a personal loan?

[743] Yep.

[744] You know, all we're doing is reducing 115 to 25.

[745] That's a good move.

[746] Yes.

[747] Okay.

[748] And it's not a thousand dollar payment like we're making now.

[749] Exactly.

[750] And we're going to sell his truck as soon as we can get close to what is owed on it.

[751] Okay.

[752] So put it on Craigslist and put it on other stuff.

[753] And because, you know, we can get a vehicle down closer to your vehicle that is doable.

[754] And then, of course, we're going to clear those credit cards.

[755] So now, if you're making $145 and you owe $20, and you owe $10 on your truck and seven on credit cards and a little bit on some kind of car we get for him or a truck we get from him like $10 ,000, we can clean that pretty quick.

[756] You could be out of debt.

[757] Like, we're already down $1 ,000 in the two weeks.

[758] Yeah, but you could be out of debt completely if you'd make those moves.

[759] Sell his truck in the camper.

[760] By the end of summer, if they're gone, at a reasonable price.

[761] um and that way the hole's not too big on either one of them that you got to pay back um but you could be debt free in 18 months that would be awesome but that's living on beans and rice rice and beans yes no more pipe dreams absolutely because this was a pipe dream like drugs were in the pipe pipe pipe yeah we smoked this pipe dream but it sounds crazy to do a 3 ,400 apartment too like I know that compared to the truck in the camper, the $3 ,400 apartment is freaking lights out genius.

[762] Compared, yeah.

[763] All right.

[764] Think about it this way.

[765] Think about this way, Ashton, at 34 it was about, you would have paid about 40 grand this year in rent in this apartment.

[766] Yeah.

[767] You're hoping to sell this at a loss to minimize your loss to $25 ,000 to $30 ,000 to pay off.

[768] Yeah.

[769] So there it is.

[770] You paid it anyway.

[771] You paid it anyway.

[772] You just didn't get to live in an awesome apartment.

[773] Yeah, instead you were on an apartment on wheels from camping world.

[774] Dave, it's so great.

[775] I can't.

[776] I can feel you try not to laugh right next to me. I'm just...

[777] $200 ,000 is appreciating.

[778] As they say in Auburn, Alabama, bless your heart.

[779] This is the Ramsey Show.

[780] Thank you for joining us, America.

[781] We're glad you're here.

[782] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -ho.

[783] today.

[784] Today's question of the day comes from Tracy in Texas.

[785] All right, Tracy asks, my husband and I have been married for over 20 years and we have six children together.

[786] He is a high functioning alcoholic and he's emotionally abusive.

[787] Last week, things escalated to the point where I had no choice but to call the police and have him arrested.

[788] I filed for divorce the next day.

[789] We make a combined $320 ,000 per year but live paycheck to paycheck and have $0 in savings.

[790] Our only asset is the equity in our home.

[791] We cannot afford a divorce, and he has promised to make me pay for his arrest.

[792] I feel like I'll be forced to let him come home because I don't have any other financially realistic option.

[793] I earn six figures on my own, but I'm worried about how I'll feed my kids and keep the mortgage current.

[794] I know I need the four walls first, but I'm overwhelmed and can't do this alone.

[795] Okay.

[796] First thing, by definition, he's not high functioning.

[797] Right.

[798] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[799] he's not functioning he might have been high functioning in the past but not now yeah um and so wow and good for you for having the courage to call on him um yeah if he got arrested and there's there's some parts left out of here um yeah it was no longer emotional it was not emotional abuse if you get arrested they don't arrest you for yelling yeah but good for you um so when you say we can't afford a divorce but I earn six figures.

[800] Dave, tell me if I'm wrong here, but it seems to be a lot of chaos and a lot of mess here.

[801] If you earn six figures, you can go get a relatively nice apartment and you can go, you can figure out the house stuff later.

[802] Yeah.

[803] But you can go get a place where you're safe.

[804] Yeah.

[805] Go rent a house and put the house up for sale and tell your divorce attorney that they get paid when the house sells.

[806] and they'll be happy with that because there's plenty of equity there and i mean if you have scratched together a few thousand dollars or something to put down a little bit of a retainer that'll be fine um but um here's a thing i'm this is you you you can speak you know this because more your area of expertise dealing with trauma and dealing with these things but um we know i knew this before john came here but now john has dr john with his PhD and counseling has reaffirmed this I know that there's a high correlation between money control, extreme levels of control by the man in the house and domestic violence, using her as a punching bag.

[807] and part of the narrative that is used there is you can't make it without me i'll make your life miserable you can't you know you can't survive you can't survive you can't survive and after 20 years she believes it even though she can go to work and someone's going to pay six figures figures she still thinks she can't but she can't do it at home that's right she still thinks he has power right i'll make you pay yeah to which john and i are almost chuckling to ourselves because this is a guy who's so out of control.

[808] He's in jail.

[809] He ain't going to make anybody pay.

[810] He's not exactly a threat.

[811] He's what's known as a bully that got punched in the nose, and most of them are absolute wusses.

[812] Once you punch a bully really hard, they just sit down and cry and mown.

[813] And that's what this guy is.

[814] He's a coward.

[815] And so, because his only chance, his only chance of upping someone is his wife.

[816] This is a coward.

[817] And so, He's not as big a threat, darling, as your psyche, which has been reconditioned over 20 years, tells you.

[818] Agreed?

[819] 100%.

[820] I mean, I'm seeing domestic violence language in this.

[821] Am I wrong?

[822] All over this.

[823] And sometimes it's even hard to write that down.

[824] It's hard to write it down.

[825] So, yeah, you earn six figures.

[826] Go get yourself.

[827] And by the way, your life, your standard of living will change dramatically.

[828] You're going to have to let that go.

[829] Go get a small house.

[830] The smallest houses you can afford with six kids.

[831] and it's not going to be fancy.

[832] It's going to have for Micah countertops and all that.

[833] Who cares?

[834] You're going to have safety in your home for the first time in 20 years.

[835] And, yeah, tell your attorney that you get paid in the house sells, and he's going to have a highfalutin attorney also.

[836] No, he doesn't.

[837] He doesn't have any money.

[838] Nobody's got any money.

[839] Well, that's true.

[840] Yeah, he didn't have any cash either.

[841] He's in exactly the same place she's in.

[842] That's a good point.

[843] I'm going to make you pay.

[844] Where are you getting the attorney's fees, buddy?

[845] Yeah.

[846] Yeah.

[847] Yeah.

[848] So, um, that he's just broke as she is.

[849] So they got a lot of equity.

[850] That's it.

[851] And they got a good income.

[852] That's it.

[853] So what I'm going to do is start, I'm going to get out of the house and park in something cheap and get the house sold with court order with the attorney as soon as possible.

[854] Like, I mean, fast, like blindingly fast, not even as a part of the divorce settlement.

[855] Just the money's paid into the court until the divorce is settled.

[856] And then let the attorneys get paid out of that.

[857] and then just make sure that they don't keep it there for five years, and they're the only ones getting the money, okay?

[858] But Bubba, Bubba has got no power here.

[859] He's, he's at, you know, the only power, Tracy, that this guy has, he has no financial power, he has no emotional, spiritual, physical power.

[860] The only power he has is between your ears.

[861] And if you quit, the day you quit letting him live their rent -free is the day this whole thing turns over fast.

[862] because John and I aren't we're not intimidated by him and we can see real clearly exactly how this is going to go down and you're going to come out of this just fine other than the healing that you're going to go through from the years of calling this a high functioning alcoholic when in reality he hadn't been high functioning if he ever was in a long long time and I want to speak to this if this happens to be Tracy or anybody else listening I remember always getting a pat on the back in my annual review because I was in charge of a lot of revenue expense accounts, multiple millions of dollars, and we always came in under budget.

[863] That was like a thing I was known for.

[864] I always going to land underneath that.

[865] And my household finances were a mess.

[866] And I always felt a ton of shame that I could do it so well over here.

[867] But when I got here, I wasn't a person of discipline and any self -control or anything like that.

[868] And so if this is you, Tracy, you're good at work.

[869] You make six figures, but at home, everything feels chaotic.

[870] You have to do the brave, scary, hard thing and ask for help.

[871] You got to ask for help.

[872] That's what FPUs for.

[873] That's what our financial coach is here for.

[874] That's what your neighbor down the street is for.

[875] That's what your minister's for.

[876] You got to ask for help and say, okay, I'm great at work here so much that they pay me six figures.

[877] How do you make a checking account on your own?

[878] How do you do some of these basic things that you quote unquote should know, but you don't know how to do it?

[879] Okay, let's go get the help we need to do.

[880] Yeah, and talk to your boss at work.

[881] If you're making six figures.

[882] You may need a 10 grand advance on pay to get the new place deposits and all and to get a little bit for an attorney to get started.

[883] But I feel like I will be forced to let him come home.

[884] No. Nope.

[885] I thought I saw that in there.

[886] Let me go back to that.

[887] He wants you to feel that way.

[888] There's nothing in the law that says that.

[889] There's nothing.

[890] I mean, you need to get a restraining order and, you know, you need to make him pay for inflicting this on you and six kids.

[891] Yeah.

[892] And it's not a matter of vengeance.

[893] It's a matter of boundaries and safety and safety.

[894] And no, come home.

[895] By the way, he could come home, but it might be an empty housework because you move to a rental.

[896] Right.

[897] And the house he's living ends up for sale by court order.

[898] Yeah.

[899] And that's where I want this thing to go as fast as possible.

[900] And what about the kids?

[901] And what about the kids?

[902] Let me tell you.

[903] The only way the kids are going to be okay to is when you are.

[904] That's right.

[905] That's right.

[906] Having a dragon living inside your house is infinitely less safe than them having to move in the middle of a school year or in the summertime or whatever.

[907] The dragon does not get to come home.

[908] Sorry, dragon.

[909] We discovered you're a dragon.

[910] Who knew?

[911] Now you can't live there.

[912] What a mess.

[913] Yeah.

[914] It's like, you know.

[915] That's amazing.

[916] We thought you were a pet dragon.

[917] Well, it turns out you're a dragon.

[918] It's, it's amazing, Dave.

[919] You said it.

[920] It's, it can be so in control over here and somebody just beat you down for 20 years for so long.

[921] You just believe, you believe that story.

[922] The story becomes a story you tell yourself.

[923] And it's really hard to change that narrative.

[924] Yeah.

[925] It's tough.

[926] So, Tracy, to use John's phrase, you're worth, you are worth not being a punching bag.

[927] you are worth standing alone and creating a new life that's full of peace and you've got to go do it.

[928] It's going to be hard, but it's going to be a lot easier than dealing with the dragon.

[929] This is the Ramsey show.

[930] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[931] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[932] Well, Ramsey events are in full swing around here.

[933] We had a great event here last weekend with the Total Money Makeover weekend.

[934] Again, it was one of the most fun events I've had in a long, long time.

[935] I thoroughly loved it.

[936] It was an old -school TMM stuff, man, and it was a blast.

[937] Our upcoming Money and Marriage event with Rachel Cruz and Dr. John Deloney sitting beside me just sold out.

[938] And it's in October, so it's done.

[939] Next week, we have our brand, and that means you've got FOMO, so get ready.

[940] Next week we got a brand new virtual event, and the good news is there is no seating limitations when you're doing things virtually.

[941] So, ultimate number of living, unlimited number of living rooms out there to watch this in.

[942] Dave Ramsey's investing essentials.

[943] On two nights, I will be doing not the same thing.

[944] Each night is individual.

[945] The second night I'll give you a hint is mainly real estate.

[946] And I'm going to open up my personal playbook of how I personally invest and the processes I use, the principles I use, the actual things I put money in, and the people that I run around with, many of which have $100 million net worth or greater.

[947] What are they really doing?

[948] Not what your broke TikTok influencer living in his mother's basement is doing.

[949] But we're going to actually show you like real people, real rich people and what they really do.

[950] And it's not flip this house.

[951] I'll just go ahead and give you a hint ahead of time.

[952] So, yeah.

[953] So anyway, it's going to be fun.

[954] And it's actually sold like crazy, like a zillion of you have already bought tickets.

[955] Thank you.

[956] Tonight virtual event, May 21, 22, which makes it next week.

[957] It's $199.

[958] bucks get your tickets to that ramsysolutions .com slash events and the cruise is almost sold out for next march the ramsay cruise uh there's going to march 22nd through 29th next year um it's all the ramsy personalities uh plus a bunch of celebrities going to be on there with us and uh so it's going to be a lot of fun it's to live like no one else so if your baby step four or beyond and you want to come we'd love to have you uh we don't want you spending money on a cruise when you're getting out of debt and building your emergency fund that's wrong so don't do that that's why it's called the live like no one else cruise so that later you can live and give like it's the later part live and give like no one else cruise so it's going to be a lot of fun and there's a handful of a handful of sweets left but are not sweets rooms i think the sweets are all gone but the um i think it's like 80 % sold out right now and it's only been up for like four weeks and i heard that you're uh you've challenged the boat to a cannonball competition in the big pool i'm excited about that Joe Levitt told me that you're going to be leading the way.

[959] It's going to be awesome.

[960] Really?

[961] Yeah.

[962] He said you have a big onesie swimsuit that you're...

[963] So the Speedo rumor went away.

[964] That's good.

[965] Yeah.

[966] That's good.

[967] Okay.

[968] That got...

[969] They took a company vote.

[970] No, not doing any of the above.

[971] But your big onesie...

[972] Not the above.

[973] It's going to be awesome.

[974] I can't wait.

[975] I don't know where these people are hanging out together and what they're ingesting while they're having these discussions, but not doing it.

[976] Gummy bear breath.

[977] Not doing it.

[978] Just saying, not happening.

[979] Not those kind of gummies.

[980] All right.

[981] Erica is in Kansas City.

[982] Hi, Erica.

[983] What's up?

[984] Hi.

[985] I was wondering, where does a big home renovation project fit into baby steps?

[986] Would it be like Baby Step 3B?

[987] Could be.

[988] It could be 4, 5, 6, probably 4, 5, 6, something like that.

[989] How large a project you want to do?

[990] Yeah, we have a house.

[991] that is, um, it's kind of like a two and a half bedroom house and we need more bedrooms for our kids as they are getting bigger.

[992] Hmm.

[993] Okay.

[994] Why don't you sell it and buy one?

[995] Well, we have land and land prices have almost quadrupled here.

[996] So you like the, you like the piece of ground your own?

[997] Yes.

[998] Okay.

[999] And how many acres have you got?

[1000] 30.

[1001] Oh, that's nice.

[1002] Very cool.

[1003] Okay.

[1004] And what's the square?

[1005] footage of the two and a half it is 1800 square feet how old is it over a hundred okay is there any um historical value or family value to that particular house no none at all push it down push it down yeah be a lot easier i've done i've done probably i don't know 500 renovations renovating something that's a hundred years old is my idea of hell.

[1006] They don't build them like they used to.

[1007] Thank God.

[1008] We build so much better house nowadays.

[1009] The pipes are bad.

[1010] The wiring's bad.

[1011] The roof is bad.

[1012] The lumber that was put in there was roughs on.

[1013] It's twisted like a turkey's toe.

[1014] And, oh, God, no, it just, it's all.

[1015] But when you get done with this, you're just going to have a hundred -year -old house that's been patched up again.

[1016] that's how you end up with two and a half bedrooms we call them country -built houses people just keep adding crap to it and it just looks like a it looks like a lambrent to get through it and um just keep adding another room out there and add another room out there and so i would consider that now so uh you'd build a three thousand what's your household income a hundred and ten thousand good okay so you could just get a construction loan move into an apartment for a year or move into a rental or get an old five thousand dollar trailer put on the property while you bill and live live in that crappy thing and while you build a house whichever I don't care and then build a house that's what I would do you do whatever you want but if you're going to spend almost you're going to spend about the same amount of money a lot more trouble and end up with a substandard product if you renovate so um but go ahead and renovate if that's if that's the game y 'all want to do that you're talking about spending a couple of hundred grand though aren't you uh this particular project we are thinking under 75 ,000.

[1017] What are you doing?

[1018] There is an attic space, and it would be making it livable.

[1019] And somebody look at the structure?

[1020] Doesn't fall into the basement?

[1021] We have spoken with an, we don't have a basement.

[1022] We have spoken with an engineer.

[1023] And it'll hold it.

[1024] With some reinforcements, yes.

[1025] Here we go.

[1026] Okay.

[1027] All right.

[1028] I rest my case.

[1029] but the defense rests but the so yeah yeah if that's what you guys want to do but I would do that to answer your original question four five and six would you pay off the mortgage before you did something like that no I'm fine it's four five six I mean if you if you come up you make us you make $75 ,000 in cash renovation you want to buy something to $75 ,000 in cash you want to do that before you pay off your mortgage that's a four or five six maybe set four is 15 percent of your income into retirement five is kids college sixes would pay off the house early you're going to reduce how fast you pay off the house um in order to come up with 75 thousand cash in order to do this renovation i personally think the whole financial transaction would also be easier if you took out a construction loan to build a house where that one was and um made that your new mortgage on a 15 year fixed and when you move into it but you've got a solid product, and that's the direction I would go.

[1030] And it's just, then all of that's sitting at baby step six, you're just going to pay off the house.

[1031] So the renovation is rolled into the mortgage the way I'm talking about, because it becomes a new house.

[1032] And I think you'll end up with, yeah, I, you're probably going to end up with more, more of a mortgage than you're going your way.

[1033] Well, I know you will.

[1034] I know you will, because I'm pushing down your house.

[1035] So, but, but, but you're, but you're, You're going to be like $100 ,000 glad you did.

[1036] So I think you need to watch more HGTV, Dave.

[1037] You don't have the vision.

[1038] All she needs is $150 ,000 in engineering.

[1039] Have you really?

[1040] You know, I never watched that, but I was actually in a waiting room the other day and they had that thing on and I was trapped and I couldn't get away from it.

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] The people that are doing that stuff are the most unusual humans.

[1043] Have you noticed?

[1044] It looks like something out of a zoo.

[1045] It looks like a Star Trek bar, a Star Wars bar.

[1046] There's going to do a house renovation.

[1047] I mean, there's no like regular rednecks going in there and just renovating.

[1048] That would be, no, Chip and Joanna did that.

[1049] Well, Chip and Joanna are pretty normal, I think.

[1050] That's your move, dude, redneck renovations.

[1051] From what I've heard.

[1052] But the rest, I mean, the redneck renovations, you'd be a billionaire.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] I think we're on to something, Dave.

[1055] Except that I don't.

[1056] Except that I don't.

[1057] want to do it.

[1058] You just push the house over every time.

[1059] That'd be hilarious.

[1060] That's it.

[1061] Dave, just, how are we going to fix this bedroom day?

[1062] Push it over.

[1063] Knock it over.

[1064] This is the Ramsey show.

[1065] So the guys in the booth have already launched the Redneck Renovations show during the break.

[1066] Hey, here's what it is.

[1067] It's a call -in show where people all over the country call George and Camel and Ken Coleman and ask them plumbing and electrical and renovation questions.

[1068] Two of the most inept people that could possibly ever answer those questions on the So great.

[1069] There's nothing redneck about that.

[1070] That's just an app.

[1071] No, it would be so fun.

[1072] It would be incompetent, but it wouldn't be redneck.

[1073] That's not fun.

[1074] Redneck renovations is just going nowhere.

[1075] Matt's and Dana in Omaha, Nebraska.

[1076] Hey, guys, how are you?

[1077] Not too bad, Dave.

[1078] Thanks for taking our call.

[1079] Sure.

[1080] How can we help?

[1081] Well, so I've been, I'm a farmer out here and got in kind of hooked up with you because I was sick and tired of my terrible financial decisions for years and years and years and years.

[1082] And my wife and I have downloaded the every dollar app and I think I'm going to purchase the premium tomorrow.

[1083] And one of the questions that I have is my 17 -year -old daughter, Dana, who's on the phone with me now, we were talking about just college and we don't have a college savings at all for her.

[1084] She's a junior, just finish your junior year today.

[1085] And she's like, I got to build credit.

[1086] And I'm like, I instantly was like, nope, you need to get in touch with Dave Ramsey.

[1087] So as my wife and I begin this journey of we don't have a horrendous amount of debt, the biggest thing that we need to do is control our money.

[1088] So I know where it's going.

[1089] So that's, that's the journey we are on.

[1090] And I don't want my daughter to make the same mistakes that I did okay well that would be every parent that's a good parent anyway um and um so when a 17 year old and she's on the phone what's her name Dana okay so when Dana says um I want to build my credit um two years ago you would have thought oh that's probably a good idea uh probably yeah and and now you're like going oh god Dave Ramsey Hiro!

[1091] Exactly.

[1092] That is exactly what I'm doing.

[1093] Well, and here's the thing.

[1094] So, Dana, what happened is this.

[1095] The Bible says be not conformed to this world.

[1096] Don't be like everyone else.

[1097] Because if you look at the statistics of average in America today, what you find is the average divorce is caused by money fights and money problems and money stresses.

[1098] uh if you look at the statistics 70 % of people are living paycheck to paycheck if you look at the statistics people who chase the credit and debt game spend their lives earning money for other people and giving it to them in the form of debt payments and um i'm sorry that's that's your dad right there yeah and and so that oh it's everybody i mean it's normal so that's why we say don't be normal don't don't be conformed to this world if what this world is doing isn't working, why would you want to be one of them?

[1099] You want to be weird.

[1100] If normal is losing, we want to be successful, we want to win, then we don't want to be normal.

[1101] If the group of friends you're running around with are going nowhere, then guess what?

[1102] You're going to go nowhere because you're hanging out with them, embracing the same set of habits, patterns, and behaviors that they embraced, reading the same books, which are useless, watching the same useless movies, and Netflix garbage.

[1103] And so, you know, if, you know, if that if that's what you want to be if you want to be normal yes go build your credit score but normal's broke and normal stressed and so i think you don't want to be normal um i think you've been lied to by a normal culture that told you you have to have a credit score in order to become prosperous and successful and the truth is the actual data tells us that it's the opposite of that and so that's you know where we are then the second part of the equation is how am i going to go to college because his mom and dad had to save for college, and you're lucky because the guy sitting beside me has a Ph .D. in higher education and has served in several different universities in the leadership team in the administration of several universities around the nation and actually knows exactly what the college scene looks like.

[1104] And before I pitch to him, I will tell you that you don't have to go into debt to go to college.

[1105] You do have to select a college you can afford and there is no difference between the data again what we're trying why are we going to college we're going to college to become more successful and to have a better quality life with the knowledge that we get it's not actually the degree that matters it's the knowledge and so we want to go get knowledge and the truth is is that you can pay $100 ,000 a year for the knowledge or you can pay $12 ,000 a year for the knowledge and the knowledge is basically the same.

[1106] So you can get a degree in marketing for $100 ,000 a year at, you know, most expensive universities in the nation, or you can go to a state university and pay $12 ,000 a year and get a degree in marketing.

[1107] And it's basically the same information.

[1108] And there's no data that says where you went to school college should be successful.

[1109] There is data that says when you have more knowledge, you have higher probability of being successful, knowledge that's useful in the marketplace, like a marketing degree or whatever, that kind of thing.

[1110] So I would tell you that if you select an inexpensive school.

[1111] You're going to get a great education and you're going to work while you're in school and that's going to give you a great education.

[1112] I did.

[1113] John did.

[1114] Most people do.

[1115] And then you can come out with no student loan debt and probably your mom and dad since they're getting their crap together are going to be able to help a little.

[1116] John, what would you say?

[1117] Well, I was say, Dana, so what do you think about all that?

[1118] Um, yeah, okay.

[1119] So my plan was to attend like a community college and not a university.

[1120] Great.

[1121] Brilliant.

[1122] Because it's just, I've been told a lot the university is just not worth it.

[1123] And so.

[1124] Well, that's not true.

[1125] It is sometimes, but not always.

[1126] It depends on what you want to do and when you want to do it and how you want to do it and all that.

[1127] But if you've decided you can meet your short -term and long -term goals right now starting a community college, amazing.

[1128] Go for it.

[1129] That's the best deal on the market.

[1130] Great.

[1131] For the first couple of years, right?

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] I think we just lost them.

[1134] Oh, we just lost them.

[1135] Well, and so Dave, while we're here, here's the thing.

[1136] Mike Roe, the three of us have talked about it.

[1137] There's a both -and to this.

[1138] There is a no one needs to go to college.

[1139] It's so stupid.

[1140] Well, that's not true.

[1141] That's not true.

[1142] I do not want to go to a doctor that didn't go to college.

[1143] I don't want an engineer building my house and go to college.

[1144] And does everyone have to go?

[1145] No, they don't.

[1146] Or does everyone have to go to Harvard?

[1147] No, God, no. So some of the most amazing people I know started in community college.

[1148] I had law student graduates that started in the...

[1149] Okay, Dana, we're back with you, I think.

[1150] In community college.

[1151] All right, Dan.

[1152] There we go.

[1153] There we go.

[1154] Somehow the call drops.

[1155] Sorry about that.

[1156] All right, Dana, we're back with you.

[1157] So you're talking about two years in community college and then maybe move off to university to finish.

[1158] It sounds like, what are you talking about studying?

[1159] No, I'll do probably four years at a community college and not move on to a university.

[1160] And a degree in what?

[1161] I'm going into nursing.

[1162] Okay.

[1163] Beautiful.

[1164] That's great.

[1165] Genius.

[1166] It's wonderful, wonderful.

[1167] And then you've got to go to nursing school, right?

[1168] Yes.

[1169] Okay, and you've got to pass your boards.

[1170] But nursing is probably one of the best career choices you can do out there because I'm old and ever since I've been doing this like 40 years, there's been a shortage of nurses.

[1171] There's always a shortage.

[1172] And so you can kind of pick and choose where you work and they'll pay you a lot and you can always get as much overtime as you want.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] And when your dad gets some weird itch from working on the farm, he's going to call you and you can help him and it will be, right?

[1175] He gets a rash that's undescribable.

[1176] He'll get a weird rash from the tractor.

[1177] It's already happening.

[1178] Ew.

[1179] Matt, come on.

[1180] But Dana, listen, everyone in your world is telling you the only thing that matters is the car you drive is your FICO score.

[1181] It's all this, it's nonsense, man. It's just nonsense.

[1182] And I know it's hard when you're 17 to have three knuckle -headed old men telling you to do something else.

[1183] But if you, like, you're at this weird crossroads and you can go, you can take a left or you can take a right.

[1184] and one of these paths is going to be like, just like Dave said, everybody else.

[1185] And if you look around, everybody's broke.

[1186] Or you can go right and you can take another, you can go the other direction.

[1187] Matt, can y 'all chip in and help her pay for community college?

[1188] I'm hoping.

[1189] Okay.

[1190] Well, she's only a junior.

[1191] I mean, you're just now starting getting your stuff straightened out.

[1192] I think you can't.

[1193] I think you're going to be there because you said you didn't have a lot of debt.

[1194] You were just chaotic, right?

[1195] Correct.

[1196] Okay.

[1197] Excellent.

[1198] Yeah, I think I'm making that as a part of the thing.

[1199] Now, I will tell you, Dana, that if you're my kid, I'm not going to help you.

[1200] I'm not going to pay for a part of your school if you turn around over here and doing something stupid, like going into debt or something, okay?

[1201] So I'm not going to assist you in harming yourself if I'm your dad.

[1202] But if he can be a part of the solution, since you're being very wise about where you're going to school, I think he should if it can be.

[1203] I think it would be fantastic.

[1204] That's perfect.

[1205] Hey, good call, guys.

[1206] Thanks for letting us preach at your 17 -year -old.

[1207] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1208] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey.

[1209] solutions.

[1210] It's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[1211] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show is my co -host today.

[1212] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[1213] Kim is in Atlanta.

[1214] Hi, Kim.

[1215] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1216] Hey, Dave and John.

[1217] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[1218] I watch you guys all the time, and I love you guys.

[1219] Thank you.

[1220] I have a mortgage question for you.

[1221] I'm 63, and I want to pay off my mortgage like you always talk about, but I have a 401K and I have investments, but do I take that out and cash it in some of it to pay off the mortgage, or do I just continue to try to pay over?

[1222] What's your mortgage balance?

[1223] It's 100K.

[1224] Okay.

[1225] And how much in your non -retirement investments?

[1226] 127.

[1227] Okay.

[1228] And you have an emergency fund instead of that?

[1229] I've got like $10 ,000.

[1230] Okay.

[1231] And how much in your 401K?

[1232] $500 plus.

[1233] Okay.

[1234] I wish it was more, but it's not.

[1235] And I'm 63.

[1236] Are you still working?

[1237] Yes.

[1238] What do you earn?

[1239] About 97 a year.

[1240] Good for you.

[1241] What's your career plan on how long?

[1242] you're going to work?

[1243] I want to retire instantly.

[1244] Well, I have a, I also have a booth in an antique mall.

[1245] Okay.

[1246] How long do you plan on making 93 and adding to the 500?

[1247] A couple years, I guess.

[1248] Okay, 65.

[1249] You're thinking 65.

[1250] Okay.

[1251] Yeah, they don't downsize me out.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] So if you have an emergency fund proper and, um, you're thinking 65.

[1254] You're thinking 65.

[1255] Okay.

[1256] So, um, if you have an emergency which you do, and you take 100 ,000 out of your non -401K money, you should have virtually no taxes on it.

[1257] There may be some capital gains, depending on how that's structured, okay?

[1258] And you pay off your home mortgage.

[1259] That leaves you basically with 500 grand, agreed?

[1260] Mm -hmm.

[1261] Okay.

[1262] At 63.

[1263] If you add nothing to that, and it's invested in good mutual funds, averaging 10%, it'll be worth a million when you're 70.

[1264] it's ultra -conservative right now so I guess I need to rethink it because I was scared you know I was like well everybody's losing money so I'm who's everybody I've made a killing this past year did you in a regular regular mutual funds mine then you need to get with a good smart rest or pro and have this adequately invested I don't want you taking a bunch of risk get off the news but um right get off the news and quit and don't listen to everybody they're a bad financial planning firm um the um yeah let's um let's do that and uh so again if you if you don't add anything to it and you're going to add two years more of 401k contributions to it is what we're plan is today right but but not counting that two years that you're going to add to it which is going to be another 50 ,000 or so give or take um then uh which you could easily do if you don't have a house payment right so load that 401k up for the next two years and then count on it does doubling about every seven years, the lump sum, if it's invested in good mutual funds averaging 10 % plus.

[1265] Okay, so again, a half a million at 63 becomes a million at 70 at 77 is 2 million.

[1266] And that's if you're not cashing it out to live on, and I don't think you will be.

[1267] So I think you're in good shape because I think you'll probably create enough antique mall income to eat on and be leaving this alone and letting it grow.

[1268] And so, and the house is worth what?

[1269] About $350.

[1270] Okay.

[1271] So you're about an eyelash away from already having a million dollar net worth.

[1272] Way to go.

[1273] Thank you.

[1274] Well done.

[1275] Yeah, thank you for your advice.

[1276] I was wondering, you know, should I just continue to try to, you know, pay on the principal or should I take the money out and just go ahead and go for it?

[1277] I would go for it.

[1278] And then the thing that I think that will do is it'll probably do two things.

[1279] Number one is I want you to start investing that old household.

[1280] payment immediately.

[1281] So you've got more investments to offset.

[1282] We're not trying to increase your monthly cash flow.

[1283] We're trying to use the money that would have going to go into a bank.

[1284] Let's put it into your account now.

[1285] The second thing is, and this will be weird, but you can look back and write it down and look back five years from now see if it really happened.

[1286] I think that if they try to right size or downsize you, you'll make a completely different decision or have a different discussion in the negotiation with them if your house is paid off.

[1287] than if it's not true it puts a little swagger in there to where you go you're gonna you're gonna lay me off and I'm 63 uh you better get ready ride some checks boys and girls I mean and you can you can toy with them a little bit right um but but if you kind of got a house payment hovering in the background you're not you're a little bit more mild a little bit meeker do you have a is it gut feel or is there some sort of matrix because I think about my mom who's in her 70s if she was to call it that same question there's a balance between I want you to have the least amount of risk exposure which so don't have a house payment versus you're going to have to pay bills ongoing um so how much money right you're saying there's a balance if she had a hundred thousand to her name I wouldn't do it okay so you wouldn't wipe yourself out not at 66 not at 63 is a quarter million okay is it 500 I just, I want some kind of a substantial nest egg, depending on her situation, sitting there.

[1288] Would you use 4 % draw to, like, did you make up a number?

[1289] No, I don't use any 4 % draw, but the, but the, I'm just saying, is there, based on the standard of living that this person is living in, what's their nest egg look like after we pay off the house?

[1290] Okay.

[1291] Okay.

[1292] Now, if they're, if they're used to making $40 ,000 a year and the mortgage is $40 ,000, you know, that's a, that's a different standard of living than she's living.

[1293] Correct.

[1294] Okay.

[1295] She's in a half million dollar house or half million dollars in savings three and $50 ,000 house and she's making $100K.

[1296] Okay.

[1297] So I'm basing all of those things in there and I'm saying, all right, what's a person like that need in a nest egg to be pretty comfortable after we pay off the house?

[1298] Well, she's going to have a half million left.

[1299] So she's fine.

[1300] Right.

[1301] You know, if she had 400, she'd be fine.

[1302] She had 300.

[1303] She'd probably fine.

[1304] Okay.

[1305] But if it gets down in there and she's at 200 is all this left.

[1306] I'm kind of on the bubble at that point with her.

[1307] Now, if you're making 40 and you're paying off $40 ,000 house, you got 200 left.

[1308] That's a lot.

[1309] Right.

[1310] You know?

[1311] So that's the ratio kind of thing I'm looking at is the way I'm pulling that through.

[1312] But, and I always feel it's underappreciated on either side.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] I want to tell a 70 -year -old, dude, if you don't have a house payment, don't have a house payment.

[1315] Like, because no one could take it from you.

[1316] Right.

[1317] You do.

[1318] You do want to get there.

[1319] And then on the other side of it is don't, yeah, don't melt everything.

[1320] Because if you melt everything, you're one of those people that's house poor.

[1321] Right.

[1322] And you're digging up the bushes to eat.

[1323] There you go.

[1324] nothing to eat but you got to pay for house right we don't want to get you there or you're completely a hundred percent leveraged with social security which that's wobbly right that's real wobble well i mean it's just not enough you get that have to buy opo to eat and so um yeah we don't get there either but that's she's done a really good job she's in really good oh yeah yeah Kim's done good job Kim so well done salute this is how you do it boys and girls so here's the thing that's the stuff you want to aim at because when you're 60 and she's 63, I'm 63, if your home is paid for, your largest line item in your budget is taking care of for the rest of your life.

[1325] The expense is limited to taxes and insurance for the rest of your life versus if you're a renter, it goes up every year for the rest of your life.

[1326] Or if you've got a house payment, you've got a house payment every year for the rest of your life.

[1327] So this is where we want to get away from is this rest of your life stuff that's not good.

[1328] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1329] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[1330] Thanks for joining us.

[1331] Listen, no one wins at anything by accident.

[1332] Winning is a series of incremental, intentional acts.

[1333] If you want to get your body in good physical condition, it's a series of incremental acts, and none of them involve a Big Mac, right?

[1334] I mean, we know what we know.

[1335] that we know, right?

[1336] If you want to have a good marriage, it involves flowers.

[1337] There's a series of incremental positive acts.

[1338] It involves other things, a lot more important than flowers, but it even involves flowers.

[1339] My wife who detests flowers, money being spent on flowers, because it's a complete waste, still smiles every time she gets the complete waste delivered to her front door.

[1340] Okay, so shut up about it.

[1341] But there we go.

[1342] So there we go.

[1343] I mean, there's a series of, and money's no different.

[1344] If you're going to win with money, we know that the people that win with money are the people that tell the money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[1345] They have what's known as a plan.

[1346] They don't accidentally win.

[1347] That's why the lottery is such false hope and why it makes me so angry, not from a moral standpoint, but when I know that 80 -something percent of the tickets on the lottery are bought from poor end of town zip codes, that's people that have been so false hope by their government.

[1348] And in Tennessee, that money is used to send rich people's kids to college, which I think is just a wonderful wealth transfer from poor people to rich people.

[1349] Take money from poor people and send rich people's kids to college and call it the lotto and everybody's happy.

[1350] That's what we did in Tennessee.

[1351] It's gross.

[1352] It's what they did in Georgia.

[1353] So that's how bass -ackwards the whole idea is.

[1354] But winning with money is a series of incremental acts that are intentional with the money.

[1355] And that's a budget.

[1356] you got to write it down you got to tell your money what to do you got to give every dollar an assignment and then make it freaking behave get a whip and a chair and crack the whip you are a money tamer like a lion tamer if you remember the old cartoons right we're going to make them make them get up on the little podium the whole thing make pita mad we're going to do every bit of that right and so make the animal behave make the money behave you are a money tamer that's your budget give every dollar name that's why we named the world's best budgeting app when we started building it several years ago every dollar now every dollar also is incrementally better it gets incrementally better every month and we're adding features to it we're adding things to it that make it better and better and better and better it is the world's best budgeting app tens of millions of people manage their money on this and if you want to download every dollar for free in the app store you can and then you should actually use it after you download it downloading it doesn't count it doesn't work by osmosis you got to open it up put your stuff in it sit down with your spouse and make it behave.

[1357] Use the app store, use the Google player, go to every dollar .com, and get started for free.

[1358] This is the Ramsey show.

[1359] Kendall is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

[1360] Hi, Kendall.

[1361] Welcome to the show.

[1362] How can we help?

[1363] Hey, thank you so much for having me. So my husband wants to go back to PA school, which is going to be like $100 ,000.

[1364] So I'm kind of just trying to figure out, like, I've just finished saving up our emergency fund and was kind of like getting ready to start paying down some of the debt that we have.

[1365] And I'm just trying to figure out, like, how to best prepare for these student loans we're going to have to take out.

[1366] Like, you know, do I just keep trying to save as much as I can?

[1367] I don't, he's also going to have to leave his job in order to go back to school.

[1368] So we'll go down to one income.

[1369] So just trying to figure out how to best prepare for that.

[1370] Well, you're kind of new to this Ramsey stuff.

[1371] And he obviously doesn't even care about this Ramsey stuff.

[1372] so let's back up about 53 steps for a second here what's your what's your household income today 110 ,000 and what does he do today um he's an athletic trainer sports medicine for what um athletic trainer for sports medicine okay all right and what does he make 50 ,000 okay and so you make 50 and some change right yeah I make about 60 I make a little bit more And what do you do?

[1373] I'm also an athletic trainer.

[1374] That was a great flex.

[1375] I mean, I make 60.

[1376] I make a little bit more.

[1377] Well, well done.

[1378] Yeah.

[1379] An athletic trainer that flexes.

[1380] There we go.

[1381] So that's perfect.

[1382] And so how much debt have we got?

[1383] So we have, we owe $25 ,000 on the house.

[1384] I have 20 in student loans.

[1385] and then we owe $5 ,000 on our cars.

[1386] That's it?

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] All right.

[1389] So here's what I would tell you, and the thing is this, the way I answer questions is what's going to put you guys in the best possible position in every part of your life 10 years from now and 20 years from now, not 10 months from now?

[1390] Right.

[1391] Okay.

[1392] I really don't give a crap about 10 months from now.

[1393] if you're completely uncomfortable and you hate me 10 months from now that's perfect okay but if that makes you completely the best place you've ever been in your life 10 years from now in other words it's much like training um you're going to have some discomfort in order to build some muscle agreed mm -hmm the tearing and the lactic acid and so forth am I on to something there um yeah yeah my metaphor is working is all I'm saying and so yeah um the um the um um the um um um the um So what I would say is being a PA is an excellent career choice.

[1394] Completely endorse his dream.

[1395] There's not a chance in the heavens that I would go into debt to do it.

[1396] No way.

[1397] Oh, I'm not kidding.

[1398] It's not a laughing matter.

[1399] I really wouldn't.

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] The best life you could have is for him to become a PA and figure out a way, if you'll listen for a minute, that we don't go into debt to do it.

[1402] The first step is to pay off the debt that you have.

[1403] The second step is to build an emergency fund.

[1404] And then the third step is while he's looking for scholarships and while he's applying for grants and while he's talking to his employer who might need a PA, he's talking to some hospitals in the area who would hire him immediately as a PA, might even put him on now as an on -staff sports trainer and they might have a scholarship program for employees.

[1405] Who knows?

[1406] There's lots of ways to get.

[1407] people to pay for your education and or save some of it after you don't have $25 ,000 in debt that delays him starting PA school but it doesn't delay at a decade it delays it two years or a year depending on how many scholarships he can find and grants he can find but the chances I'm going to tell you to sign up for $100 ,000 worth a hell called student loan debt is zero right that's zero I love you too much to want you to do that.

[1408] I don't want that for you.

[1409] That's living a dream in such a way that you turn it into a nightmare.

[1410] So you're saying try to save up as much as possible prior to him going and then pay cash.

[1411] And try and see where we can get the grants and some employment help.

[1412] Yep.

[1413] And or future employment.

[1414] Who's going to hire him in the future?

[1415] Listen, there's such a shortage right now.

[1416] People want P .A. And P .A. is such a solid degree field.

[1417] that you can get some help it's there believe me we work in this stuff every day and and oh by the way where you become a PA which school he goes to does not matter right the percentage of people that walk into your office when a PA and ask you where you went to school before you touch my body is zero it's zero how many people ask where you went to school for you did sports medicine for you stretched them zero none they don't care about your dadgum little fancy school title all they care about is do you know your stuff right yeah i'm old i've been to dockers my whole life never asked one where they went to school john can you what's the range on pa schools john's got a phd in higher ed i mean you don't have to spend a hundred grand do you conceivably no you can there's a million different schools does he already have one in mind yeah so we're we're trying to do a local one you know we don't we don't want to relocate um so there's like three or four he can apply to okay um and they kind of range from like 80 to 110 ,000 there you go so you've already knocked off 20 ,000 dollars which in y 'all's life is a year of your life of saving money right so find the 81 and like Dave said go beat the streets maybe he goes and goes to a community college and gets a nursing certificate first and then they'll help pay for the transition from nursing school to PA school there's all different other avenues you can take to get here but Dave's right once you decide you're not going to borrow money and do it the stupid way, all of a sudden some of the smart ways start sticking out in front of you.

[1418] It's amazing.

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] Scratch around and do this right, kiddo.

[1421] This is the Ramsey show.

[1422] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, personality is our co -host today.

[1423] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1424] We're so glad you're here.

[1425] We invite you to drop by and see us here at Ramsey.

[1426] We are about 12 miles south of Nashville in a little town called Franklin, which is absolutely fabulous and lots of people come by the ramsie solutions headquarters there's a big lobby where you can have some homemade cookies and coffee at our expense we love treating you we like having you come in here and it smells like mama's kitchen not corporate america and we want you to go through and see the stuff and hang out and we do the show on the glass from one to four every day central time monday through friday and you're welcome to drop in Dr. John does his show on the glass in the mornings a couple times a week.

[1427] Ken Coleman, a couple times a week, smart money happy hour is not done on the glass because they're out of control and we don't know what they're going to do next.

[1428] But also in this lobby, we built a little thing right here on the glass.

[1429] We call it the debt -free stage, which is where you stand to tell us your debt -free story and do your debt -free scream.

[1430] On that stage is John and Sarah.

[1431] Hey, John, how are you guys doing?

[1432] Better than we deserve.

[1433] Cool.

[1434] Where do y 'all live?

[1435] We live up by Green Bay, Wisconsin.

[1436] Oh, very fun.

[1437] Well, welcome to Nashville.

[1438] And how much debt have you all paid?

[1439] We paid off just about 102 ,000.

[1440] And how long did that take?

[1441] All told, about six years.

[1442] Yep, six years and two months.

[1443] Six years, all right.

[1444] And your range of income during that six years?

[1445] We started out right around 45 ,000 with a little freelance.

[1446] We got up to about 140 and kind of settled back down at 12.

[1447] Gotcha.

[1448] Okay, cool.

[1449] What do y 'all do for a living?

[1450] I am a brand and communications team lead at an IT services company.

[1451] And I do prep at a coffee shop.

[1452] Excellent.

[1453] Very cool.

[1454] What kind of debt was the $102 ,000?

[1455] It was a credit card, a couple of loans from family and our mortgage.

[1456] You paid off your house.

[1457] You did.

[1458] Look at it a couple of weirdos.

[1459] Way to go, you two.

[1460] So proud of.

[1461] you.

[1462] Very, very well done.

[1463] So good job, man. Good job.

[1464] So what started this whole Ramsey walk six years ago?

[1465] Well, I had been familiar with Dave Ramsey like 15 years ago.

[1466] We actually saw the book in a bookstore and we're like, we should do that, but we don't know if we have enough money to pay for the book.

[1467] We didn't feel like we could afford the book.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] So, um, We kind of had a general sense of what Dave Ramsey was all about and paying off debt and those things, but weren't really on board at that point and kind of were normal.

[1470] We were living paying all of our bills on credit cards and then thought we were being responsible by paying the credit card off every month.

[1471] Of course, that is easier said than done, and inevitably you get to the end of the month.

[1472] And I was always concerned about, do we have enough money in the account to pay off the card?

[1473] And towards the end of the year, often there wasn't enough.

[1474] So we'd find ourselves carrying a balance and hope for a big tax refund to cover the difference and wipe the slate clean.

[1475] So this was really caused a lot of anxiety.

[1476] You know, it was never, I never felt comfortable, never felt like we were getting ahead.

[1477] Because you weren't.

[1478] We weren't.

[1479] We weren't.

[1480] And we didn't have a budget.

[1481] And I tried several times.

[1482] to figure out the whole budgeting thing on my own, but it was just a little too much for me to figure out on my own.

[1483] So fast forward to about 2017, we had been living this way, and I kind of just got to the point where I felt like I'm tired of feeling anxious and unsure all the time, decided to look back into the budgeting thing, and ended up doing a bunch of Google searching and finding the Dave Ramsey show again.

[1484] So I started binging the show and listening to other people's debt -free screams.

[1485] And you happen to have the $10 sale going on.

[1486] Now I can afford the book.

[1487] So now I could afford the book.

[1488] I love it.

[1489] I bought the Total Money Makeover.

[1490] I read it.

[1491] Told Sarah, I think we really need to do this for my sanity at least, but I think for our future as well.

[1492] I said, fine, I'll read the book.

[1493] and then I read the book and I said, I guess we can try it.

[1494] Let's go.

[1495] Yeah, so she wasn't fully on board at first, but we got going and we tried the budget.

[1496] And by the way, what you say about it, taking three months to get the budget right is absolutely true.

[1497] It was a total disaster.

[1498] The first month was terrible.

[1499] Second month was pretty good.

[1500] Third month was pretty good.

[1501] And the rest is history.

[1502] There we go.

[1503] So what's your home worth?

[1504] Um, well, according to Zillow, which I don't know if that's entirely, uh, accurate, but probably close to 250.

[1505] Way to go, you guys.

[1506] Yeah.

[1507] Wow, that's got to feel great.

[1508] Yeah.

[1509] It does.

[1510] Was it worth the struggle?

[1511] Oh, totally.

[1512] I would do it 10 ,000 more times.

[1513] I mean, I shouldn't have to at this point.

[1514] Right.

[1515] Yeah.

[1516] Hey, man. Hey, man. Yeah, absolutely worth it.

[1517] Mm -hmm.

[1518] Way to go, y 'all.

[1519] Way to go.

[1520] Excellent.

[1521] So what was the, what was the biggest struggle you all had as a couple?

[1522] like both of you are showing some hesitancy was it because you know sarah kept spending or john you always had a scam and an idea a spreadsheet what was it um i think it was just we didn't have the tools uh we found the every every dollar app and it was life changing and it was like okay it goes to both of our phones everything's joint we just you know we're all in it's there's no excuses to not do it at that point so yeah that was that was really the big unlock for me the every dollar app to be honest, because I had tried doing budgets before with spreadsheets, and I'm just not a spreadsheet guy, and the Every Dollar App made it so simple, and it laid it all out for us.

[1523] And that combined with reading the Total Money Makeover finally, I felt like this finally is a plan that I can follow.

[1524] I have steps that I can follow.

[1525] I can be intentional and proactive, which is the total opposite of being reactive and anxious all the time.

[1526] So that was the big thing.

[1527] That was a sentence.

[1528] It was like a thesis statement out there.

[1529] I like it.

[1530] Very good.

[1531] Very good.

[1532] Good job, you guys.

[1533] All right.

[1534] Both of you.

[1535] What do you tell people when they say, how'd you pay off your house?

[1536] What's the secret to getting out of debt?

[1537] Just put your head down.

[1538] Keep on doing it.

[1539] Just every single month do the budget with the every dollar app and just every single month just like, okay, it's going to pay off in the end.

[1540] And it totally does.

[1541] And it's awesome.

[1542] It's just crazy cool.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] I think for me, the key was the budget and really closely related to that is being on the same page.

[1545] And again, having the every dollar up and being able to go through that budget every month together, make a plan for our money, I had been the one handling the finances kind of on my own previously.

[1546] So this was a huge change to be able to both be looking at the same numbers and understand what we're making and what's going out and then be able to dream about it and dream together about like what can we do now that we actually know what our money is doing.

[1547] So really making the budget and being on the same page with your spouse and talking about it and having the same dream.

[1548] What's it like, I'm looking at your kids over here and my two kids look to be about the same age as your kids.

[1549] Talk about what it feels like as the world's getting chaotic, as schools are getting wonky, as thank God we're entering into another political season, right?

[1550] What's it like knowing that can't, they're going to be all right?

[1551] right.

[1552] They can't take your house, right?

[1553] When it all said and done, they're going to be all right.

[1554] It's very reassuring.

[1555] And we're very, we're very religious people as well.

[1556] So it's like, God's got this.

[1557] We got this.

[1558] We're going to be fine.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] I think it's really hard to put into words the amount of peace that that that brings, knowing that we don't know a dime to anybody for anything.

[1561] And yeah, it's just, it's just an amazing feeling.

[1562] Very cool.

[1563] All right.

[1564] Bring them up.

[1565] Let's hear their names and ages and introduce them.

[1566] Come on up, guys.

[1567] I want to hear this.

[1568] So they've been through all this, too, no doubt.

[1569] They got parents that are heroes, that's for sure.

[1570] Our oldest is Jonah.

[1571] He's 14.

[1572] We have Silas, who's our youngest, who is 10, and we have Ella, who is our middle, and 13.

[1573] All right.

[1574] Very cool.

[1575] Very cool.

[1576] We'll welcome you guys, beautiful family.

[1577] Proud of you, heroes.

[1578] Well done.

[1579] Very well done.

[1580] John and Sarah, Jonah, Ella, and Silas from Green Bay, Wisconsin area.

[1581] 102 ,000 paid off House and everything Six years they did it making 45 to 125 Count it down let's hear a debt -free scream Three two one We're dead free Love it Way to go you guys That's how it's done boys and girls That's how it's done This is the Ramsey show Our scripture of the day is John 14 -15.

[1582] If you love me, keep my commandments.

[1583] Elon Musk said, when something is important enough, you do it even if the odds are not in your favor.

[1584] John's in Seattle.

[1585] Hey, John, welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1586] Hey, good and good afternoon.

[1587] Over to be here.

[1588] Good to have you, sir.

[1589] How can we help?

[1590] I've been here for probably the last five, six years.

[1591] And yeah, it's taken a lot for me to to come forward and and reach out to you guys.

[1592] I am a, I used to be a, well, I had a major spending addiction and I had gone through counseling to recover from that during my marriage and had just recently divorced and unfortunately relapsed in, in those spending habits.

[1593] And today I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, renting an apartment, um, which is quite, expensive in this area, as you can imagine, and I'm sitting on top of $65 ,000 in debt.

[1594] Three of those are lines of credit that are in a bad status that have not been paid for probably 70 days past due, and two of them are in good standing, which one is direct with my current credit union, and the other is for my vehicle right now.

[1595] and what do you make i have i make about 74 grand a year and i i drive for a ride share programs in the area and i have no savings um i had i had had to before my my divorce i had to cash out my 401k and um eat through our our emergency savings that was developed because How long has it been since you've seen your counselor about your spending addiction?

[1596] It's been probably almost two years now.

[1597] Why haven't you gone back?

[1598] So because I did, right now, I understand that the tools and the guidance that I was given, and I understand that I need to pivot and turn around, which I have.

[1599] Hold on, stop.

[1600] You got tools and guidance.

[1601] That's cool.

[1602] Yes.

[1603] But you know the cornerstone of every addiction recovery program is sitting kneecap to kneecap with another person and saying, do you see me and do you still love me?

[1604] And you skip that part.

[1605] That's the shame part.

[1606] That's the part you got to do.

[1607] You can have all the tools in the world, man. You can Google how to lose weight.

[1608] You've got to sit with somebody.

[1609] It's hard.

[1610] You can Google all these other things.

[1611] You're avoiding that hard part.

[1612] How come?

[1613] Does this divorce beat you up?

[1614] Yeah, the divorce definitely was.

[1615] was unexpected.

[1616] But I guess the reason why I didn't think that I needed to go back to the counselor is because I understood that I needed to pivot immediately.

[1617] When the credit lines had stopped receiving payment, that's when I, that's why I decided to completely stop touching any of those things, start paying.

[1618] I got myself into this employment and into this consistent income and decide, okay, now I need to get myself caught up, make sure that I have a stable home, and start to see how I will take care of all of this debt, which, again, I have not touched at all since.

[1619] Okay, so let me recap just a second, and then I'll make sure, then we make sure we try to answer your question, okay?

[1620] So you had a spending addiction, you went to see a counselor, and after the divorce, you relapsed.

[1621] When was the divorce?

[1622] I'm sorry, when is the divorce?

[1623] Yes, sir.

[1624] It had started last year and concluded.

[1625] Okay, so since the divorce and since the relapse on the spending, you've not seen a counselor.

[1626] No, sir.

[1627] Okay, that's why I was trying to get to.

[1628] Okay, so, John, there's two possibilities here.

[1629] And Dr. John, the data that I have seen is old.

[1630] and I don't know how accurate it is today, but we have a culture that talks about every misbehavior as an addiction, and every misbehavior is not an addiction.

[1631] Sometimes it's simple immaturity, lack of self -control, those are not addictions, and it's not addictive behavior.

[1632] That's just other things that the general public struggles with.

[1633] The last data I saw had about 2 % of the public with an actual spending addiction.

[1634] akin to an OCD -type behavior.

[1635] Does that sound right?

[1636] I don't, I hear it very, very rarely.

[1637] Yeah, it's very unusual.

[1638] It's not in the diagnostic manual.

[1639] And so the, I mean, that's just, there's a, a 12 -step program called debtors anonymous that you can plug into that has the deal with debt.

[1640] And it usually is full of people that have just had, did not have the ability to control spending for whatever reason.

[1641] And so they were labeling an addiction.

[1642] The, rightly or wrongly, I don't know, but that's what I had read.

[1643] definition of addiction if you ask me is it's a behavior that I cannot compulsively stop that that I continue to do despite its nefarious consequences and that's what this guy's doing here yeah okay all right so and and if that's the case then if you're dealing with something that is at that level and it's not simply stop it you're being stupid okay because addiction stop it you're being stupid doesn't work okay addictions you have to they're shame based and you have to meet with somebody and get a coach, get a counselor, and walk your way through it.

[1644] And so that's why John's recommending that.

[1645] And the fact that you've not done that is at the core.

[1646] So if we're going to put you in the bucket, if you're going to put you in the bucket or we are, this says you are an actual person who's struggling with an actual behavior -type -based addiction, then you need to see a counselor.

[1647] You're not going to self -diagnose your way out of this.

[1648] No matter how much, I'm going to be honest, the language he's used, is very addict language.

[1649] Now, I've got to figure out.

[1650] I need to solve this.

[1651] I need to move this over here, and I need to take care of this.

[1652] Every person I've ever met who struggles with any sort of addiction always has a plan.

[1653] And they just need to work the plan.

[1654] It's all good.

[1655] And it never works.

[1656] Yeah, right.

[1657] So you've got to get some help, dude, if that's you.

[1658] If it's simply John's being a baby and John needs to straighten up and so forth, that's different.

[1659] That is different than an addiction.

[1660] And I can't tell, and we can't diagnose you on the phone, but you're using the language to Dr. John's point of an addict.

[1661] So I would tell you that to sit down with that.

[1662] Now, I did promise you that I would actually answer your question, too, rather than just sit here and diagnose you.

[1663] So how can we best help you today, John, do you think?

[1664] Well, I completely understand.

[1665] I'm very open to what you guys are saying.

[1666] And I take full responsibility for every one of my decisions here, no doubt.

[1667] How can I best help you today?

[1668] Yeah, we're up against the clock.

[1669] But I'm looking for, in parallel to that, in parallel to the help that I need to do to the addiction, is that I wanted to know from you guys on your advice on how I may best tackle my debt.

[1670] I had spoken to my credit union about either taking a personal loan or they had.

[1671] Okay, you can't borrow your way out of it.

[1672] Your first step is to get your income versus your monthly budget needs, your income higher than your basic budget needs so that you can get current.

[1673] Once you're current, then I'm going to list the debts, smallest to largest, and I'm going to pay minimum payments staying current on the larger ones while I'm attacking the very smallest debt with a vengeance.

[1674] And then, of course, you've got to remove any type of debt product from within arm's reach of you.

[1675] okay an alcoholic can't have a bourbon collection okay so you've got a you can have a credit card collection you can't have access to all these things you can't do this so um you know you've got to separate yourself from the access to credit lines access to credit cards and so forth make it hard to get them get current then increase your income and all you're going to be doing for a little while is work which is actually cool because you if you're working all the time you haven't got time to spend.

[1676] You're too tired and you're working all the time.

[1677] You're busy.

[1678] You don't have time to do it.

[1679] Some of the worst spending I do to this day is if I'm bored.

[1680] And so that's a devil's playground.

[1681] So, yeah, that's what I would do is anything you can do, this legal and moral to increase your income and then start chunking on there like a wild man. And if we can help you further, brother, you call us anytime.

[1682] We're on your team.

[1683] We love you.

[1684] We want you to win.

[1685] And I'm sorry you've been through everything you have.

[1686] appreciate you joining us that puts this hour of the ramsay show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus hey folks dave here you want to hear even more life -changing content from ramsie download the ramsie network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place like the ramsie show smart money happy hour and the dr john deloney show you'll get real talk about life relationships money and your career plus the app lets you browse by topic like debt business or selling your home get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen download the ramsay network app today