In Ukraine, the Men Who Must Stay and Fight

[0] Hello, Claire.

[1] Hi.

[2] Hi.

[3] Last Thursday, I saw a story starting to play out on Twitter.

[4] This woman, Tara, Tara Knightsey, an American who had been living in Kiev, but who happened to be staying outside the city at the time of the invasion, was on an evacuation bus headed for the border with Poland.

[5] And she was basically documenting, in real time, this situation that was playing out.

[6] So I called her and asked her to tell me the story.

[7] So literally Wednesday night, and I fell asleep, and my phone is beeping at like 8 a .m. in the morning local time.

[8] And then all of a sudden I realized stuff was happening.

[9] Ukraine under fire this morning.

[10] The months -long buildup of Russian troops on the border with Ukraine has turned now into an invasion.

[11] Today, Russia has launched its invasion of Ukraine attacking from three sides.

[12] So I get up.

[13] I get a ticket to Lviv, and then from Lviv, I bought a bus ticket to go from here to Poland.

[14] And the bus is kind of just like, everyone, it was a really weird feeling.

[15] Not a lot being said every once in a while, whenever there was a data signal, you would hear phones beeping and people like on their phone talking to family.

[16] And roughly how many people are on the bus?

[17] Oh, it's a full charter bus.

[18] I don't know how to count that.

[19] I guess if that's, you know, it's a two on two on each side.

[20] I guess there's probably 20 rows.

[21] Yeah.

[22] So they were just pretty much calm.

[23] No one was panicking.

[24] I remember seeing one young couple with a young child, maybe a husband and a wife.

[25] Okay.

[26] And then as we start getting closer to the border, and literally it looked like from there, we were like three or four bus lines away from going through the Ukrainian security to exit.

[27] And it's just not moving.

[28] then like there's two guys the driver and then the attendant the attendants gets on and he makes an announcement saying men Ukrainian men can't leave the country so we're like what you know kind of what's going on just a light commotion and he's just like we're trying to find out more information and so we're like okay just sitting there so then then he comes up again and says okay well if you're with family we think you can get across then the third announcement comes and this guy's tone that he was giving the announcement completely changed he says that basically any man any Ukrainian man from 18 to 60 they can't leave Ukraine it doesn't matter if you have family or anything you can't go Ukraine has banned all men between the ages of 18 and 60 from leaving the country they're being told to stay and fight And I remember the group of a single man were real close to me. And I specifically remember, and I'll have this face in my life forever.

[29] We caught eye contact because he was getting his phone.

[30] And it wasn't fear.

[31] It wasn't hysteria.

[32] It was just numbness.

[33] I think everybody is just, I'll never forget that feeling.

[34] because I know this, he can't go.

[35] And one woman, she was probably in her 40s, she was crying.

[36] And, you know, our husband, he's telling her, and she's, she's the only, at this point, she's the only person crying on this bus.

[37] And she's the only person who's cried on the best the whole time.

[38] Wow.

[39] So it stood out a lot because everyone else was just silence.

[40] And they say their goodbyes.

[41] And she tries holding it together.

[42] She keeps apologizing to people around there.

[43] We don't, you know, but, you know, she knew she had to go into Poland.

[44] She couldn't stay, but she didn't want to go.

[45] I mean, she didn't want to go.

[46] And he leaves, and it just seemed like that walk was forever.

[47] And he leaves, and so she's still crying, and then our bus starts moving.

[48] and look out and I see just all these guys with their bags.

[49] And it was dark.

[50] It was terrible.

[51] From New York Times, I'm Michael Bobarro.

[52] This is a daily.

[53] As the Russian assault on Ukraine has intensified, the government of Ukraine enacted martial law, requiring men to stay in the country and either join the fight or face the prospect of conscription as hundreds of thousands of their family members and friends have fled the country.

[54] Today, my colleagues, Claire Tennis Getter and Lindsay Garrison, have the stories of three of those men.

[55] It's Tuesday, March 1st.

[56] Hi.

[57] Hi, Eugene.

[58] How are you?

[59] It's a little strange question for the current situation, but I think I can say it's pretty much okay, accounting the circumstances.

[60] Right.

[61] After I talked to Tara on Friday, I got in touch with a young man named Eugene.

[62] My name is Eugene Prasel.

[63] I'm 27 years old.

[64] I work in IT company in marketing department.

[65] And the whole my life, I live in Harkiv.

[66] Harkiv is a city in northeast Ukraine, with a population of about 1 .5 million, it's the second largest city in Ukraine.

[67] And like Kiev, it had just started to see attacks by Russian soldiers.

[68] And talking to Eugene, he is very much talking about his life, as it is there now, versus as it was just a few days ago.

[69] I can say I was pretty cheerful.

[70] I like to crack a joke.

[71] I was a normal guy who he's just working his work.

[72] He loves his job.

[73] He comes home, tired.

[74] I like puzzles.

[75] I like building Lego.

[76] I wanted to start drawing to buy something pretty for my apartment, to cook something.

[77] for my friends.

[78] Last week, Eugene had been making plans to cook something that he could bring into work.

[79] And make a chocolate banana pie for my colleagues.

[80] Yeah, I still have bananas in my fridge, but my colleagues don't have banana pie.

[81] They have Russian troops.

[82] Instead of bringing a pie into work on Thursday, Eugene woke up like so many people in Ukraine that day.

[83] To an early morning phone call.

[84] From my father, he said that shooting starts.

[85] About five hours later, half of my relatives, half of my friends were no longer in hockey.

[86] They left.

[87] Wow.

[88] Eugene's parents are divorced, and his dad decided to leave with his wife and Eugene's stepbrothers.

[89] He's trying to convince Eugene to do the same.

[90] But Eugene talks about this fear that he has, this image in his mind.

[91] I receive a notification about an airstrike or that bombs are coming or something like that.

[92] I call my mom and she don't pick up.

[93] And I have no idea, is she alive?

[94] and just doing something as she's in the middle of the fight and she will never pick up.

[95] I cannot live with this feeling that I cannot do nothing about what can happen to her.

[96] or my grandpa, who also stayed in here.

[97] And so I decided to stay.

[98] Last weekend, I cannot decide should I buy games to play on my PlayStation.

[99] And today I have to decide should I have to fight Russian army till my death.

[100] It's a pretty drastic change.

[101] So Eugene is prepared to fight, but he has a complicated relationship to the idea of fighting against Russian soldiers, his neighbors.

[102] Every time I've seen reports from battlefield, our troops are winning, and I'm glad they're winning.

[103] But with the reports that we are winning, I saw people are dead.

[104] Every time I'm winning, somebody losing a father, son, a friend.

[105] You mean the Russians or you mean the Ukrainians?

[106] Yeah, I mean the Russians because they're losing soldiers.

[107] He struggles with the mindset, that the Russian soldiers are.

[108] They were drafted in the army, the president sent them here.

[109] Probably he anticipated the casualties, but now I am to become an active part of this war.

[110] The day I talked to him, Eugene had planned to go and officially sign up for Harkiv's territorial defense force.

[111] These are the untrained civilians who are being issued rifles and being assigned to keep overwatch, man -checkpoints, and help coordinate positions.

[112] But because of missile strikes and Russian troops in the city, citizens were asked to shelter in place over the weekend.

[113] So Eugene was waiting a few days to sign up.

[114] In the meantime, he was preparing to be ready to fight on his own, if need be.

[115] Our police, the official Facebook page of Ukrainian police, today showed the picture, how to prepare a Molotov cocktail.

[116] So tomorrow I will try to find some acetone, maybe even something additional.

[117] Something additional, he said, in addition to the acetone.

[118] He's talking about a recipe he's read to make a Molotov cocktail stickier.

[119] I'm not going to include that recipe here, but Eugene says, it will stick to the armor, to the helmet, to your body, if it's contact with your skin, and it's severe burns.

[120] It causes especially severe burns.

[121] Yeah.

[122] So you anticipate using it on people, on Russian soldiers?

[123] I don't want to, but if Russian military troops will come to my town, I anticipate to use it.

[124] So you're kind of, you're anticipating that sounds like guerrilla warfare in your city.

[125] If it's needed, yeah.

[126] Yeah.

[127] It strikes me that you've been so sad watching the images of Russian troops who are dead that you're seeing on the news and you're thinking these are men with families.

[128] But at the same time, you're planning on using this Molotov cocktail to kill Russian soldiers.

[129] From the start, I told you that it is uneasy to, comprehend for myself.

[130] I don't, um, I, obviously I never killed a man or an animal even for this matter.

[131] I don't know how I'm going to feel.

[132] I pretty much believe that I, if I should to do it, I will have some heavy psychological circumstances after that.

[133] But what other choice do I have?

[134] I don't know what I should to do else because they come here.

[135] No one was inviting them.

[136] We'll be right back.

[137] Hello?

[138] Hello?

[139] One second.

[140] Yeah, hi.

[141] Nice meeting you.

[142] Nice to meet you as well.

[143] Thank you so much for your time.

[144] Yeah, fortunately, I have Wi -Fi right now, and I'm in a safe place I can talk.

[145] You have Wi -Fi and you're in a safe place.

[146] Okay.

[147] Yes, yes, yes.

[148] That's good.

[149] And how do I say your name?

[150] Oh, my name is Tigran.

[151] Tegran.

[152] Yeah, Tigran, yeah.

[153] Over the weekend, I heard a story from Ukraine that was different than so many of the story.

[154] coming out of the country right now.

[155] Amongst all the stories of the men of Ukraine staying behind to fight and Ukrainian citizens voluntarily taking up arms, I heard from a source about a young man who didn't want to fight.

[156] And when I called him, he was just outside Lviv, near the border of Poland.

[157] He knew about the ban on men ages 18 to 60, leaving the country, but he was still trying to figure out how to get across.

[158] Yesterday, I was trying to pass the border to Poland, but I didn't succeed.

[159] The day before, he'd already been rejected trying.

[160] How old are you now?

[161] I'm 23 years old.

[162] Tegrohn told me he left his home in Kiev, the day of the invasion.

[163] He had lived in the city for seven years.

[164] I love this place a lot.

[165] I'm actually an illustrator and animator.

[166] I'm doing cartoons.

[167] You're doing cartoons?

[168] He said for the past year, he had been working at a design agency in Kiev.

[169] He had these big dreams of one day working for Pixar or Disney.

[170] Yeah, it's one of my dreams because I was raised in these cartoons.

[171] And, yeah.

[172] You were raised on the Mickey Mouse cartoons?

[173] Yes, and 101 Dalmatian and many others.

[174] 101 Dalmatians.

[175] I haven't thought about that movie in a long time.

[176] During my last year, I was making a cartoon And I've just finished it I can send you a link You can watch it later I'm gay And I was making cartoons about my relationship And I was making a cartoon About how I tried to Understand what happened Like yeah Yeah sorry I'm just a little bit nervous No No, that's okay Was it about a breakup?

[177] I was just, I always miss this person.

[178] This is all I can say.

[179] Yeah, and I just decided to make a cartoon in order to understand my feelings about the situation.

[180] But like, yeah, situation has changed.

[181] A situation has changed a lot.

[182] Tigran too was woken up on Thursday morning by a call from a relative, this one from his younger brother.

[183] He said, Russia won't be honest.

[184] His brother was already on a train to get out of the country, and he crossed the border into Poland later that day.

[185] And this was a small relief to me because I know he's definitely in safe place right now.

[186] So Tikran also starts trying to move quickly to get out.

[187] I just took all my technical equipment because I'm drawing all the time.

[188] I cannot imagine myself without drawing.

[189] And I also took another bag just with socks.

[190] underwear clothes, four pairs of shorts, and one pair of jeans and sweater.

[191] And just together with all my cash and documents.

[192] And can you just tell me why you wanted to leave Ukraine?

[193] I can tell you the whole story.

[194] Originally I was born in Crimea.

[195] It turns out that Tigran has had an experience like this before.

[196] For him, the story starts in 2014.

[197] in Crimea, where he grew up.

[198] At the time, it was part of Ukraine.

[199] He was 16 years old when the Russians annexed the peninsula.

[200] And soon after that, Tigran says the Russian government tried to get him to submit paperwork.

[201] They would allow him to be conscripted by the Russian military, the same military that had just invaded and taken over his homeland.

[202] It was ridiculous.

[203] I was just 16, and I was understanding this.

[204] I was really shocked about it.

[205] He declines to submit the paperwork and instead leaves Crimea and heads to Kiev.

[206] And he's made that his new home.

[207] And now he has found himself trying to flee the Russian military once again.

[208] He got on a train headed west toward the Polish border, just like his brother did hours before him when a message came through on telegram.

[209] There was a law about mobilization that people are not able to leave.

[210] Just like the bus Tara had been on, Tigran's train was headed for the border when the government announced that men, it is 18 through 60, would no longer be able to leave Ukraine.

[211] And I was really nervous and shocked.

[212] They were just saying that everybody is forbidden.

[213] He says he started to cry.

[214] But then, unlike the men on the bus, who weren't given the choice, Tikron decided to keep going and try his luck anyway he arrived in Serenia a town on the border of Poland and met a crowd of people all waiting to pass through he was standing for like seven hours he said the mood was tense the fight breaks out there was a fight close to me and then he said some women in line just started to kind of look at him they were just gross in question And why was he in this line?

[215] And they were asking, how old are you, why is standing here?

[216] Why was he a young man?

[217] Yeah, you should live because you're a boy.

[218] Trying to get out.

[219] I'm trying to avoid them.

[220] He tries to ignore them.

[221] And then finally, Tigran gets to talk to a border official.

[222] And I came to him and he said, you're not able to go.

[223] You have Ukrainian passport.

[224] But he doesn't allow Tigran to pass.

[225] I'm sorry, I'm a refugee.

[226] I have no place to stay.

[227] And this guy was forcing me to leave the cure of people.

[228] I've been standing for six hours.

[229] And people were starting to shout.

[230] People were panicking.

[231] And they started to shout at me, shame, shame, shame, because everybody wanted to leave.

[232] They were shouting shame, shame at you?

[233] Yes, just because I asked if I could pass a border.

[234] How are you feeling in that moment when people are yelling at you?

[235] I was, I felt myself a little bit disappointed because why are you shouting shame?

[236] Like, why do people do this?

[237] My home was taken and now it's taken again.

[238] Russia has already taken the place I was born in Crimea.

[239] And in Kiev, I've just lost, I've lost a place I had.

[240] I'm just, I've been, you know, I've been always moving and moving and moving.

[241] like you're saying me this I don't know your life but my life at some point was fucked up so many times and I was just everybody is having shitty situations right now every Ukrainian is having the same issue right now everybody has its own issues and story and my story it's been going for the last eight years unfortunately this is what I was angry for I don't know I just accepted it and just left the border Do you think it's unfair that they're not letting men pass the border right now?

[242] With my sincere opinion, yes, I think it's unfair.

[243] Maybe I will receive many judgments.

[244] I think if you want to go, I mean, there is people who are motivated to go to the army and understand what they're doing, protecting.

[245] But I'm not understanding when government is forced to you.

[246] I mean, I can't imagine myself doing military stuff just because I have no experience in it.

[247] I'm afraid of holding gun.

[248] I mean, I've been always all my life.

[249] I mean, when I was younger, I was always asking my parents not to buy me cars.

[250] I was always asking for fluffy toys.

[251] When you were little, like when you were little, you didn't want, like, toy cars.

[252] You wanted stuffed animals?

[253] I really liked it a lot, like having a fluffy toys.

[254] My parents were always against violence, and they were against the buying any weapons.

[255] And for me, just holding a gun.

[256] I mean, I cannot imagine myself holding a gun.

[257] I can imagine myself volunteering and helping, but not holding a gun.

[258] I mean, I'm officially employed.

[259] I'm paying taxes.

[260] I'm making donations to support a green.

[261] I mean, I do anything I can do.

[262] I'm trying to draw some motivational posters.

[263] And just because, I'm sorry, I have a penis, I cannot leave.

[264] So why should I just be not able to cross the border?

[265] But I'm going to try again, probably.

[266] So there was some mentions that ideas about passing the border illegally.

[267] I don't know how.

[268] In case it will get worse, we will probably be trying this, because just right now, I'm not going to be.

[269] feeling myself safe.

[270] I mean, they are bombin and people are dying.

[271] Everybody is running.

[272] Like, I have no idea how many lives Peruvian during the last three days.

[273] They're not going to stop.

[274] Unfortunately, they just want to destroy.

[275] Tigran says he and his brother have been texting from across the border.

[276] Yeah, he texted me. He said, I wish I could be instead of you.

[277] And I said, Please don't be ridiculous.

[278] I always ask you to think and leave out yourself.

[279] This is the best scenario which could ever happen because he's safe.

[280] He is with his girlfriend.

[281] And so I'm pretty happy to know that he is in safe and I have minus one headache.

[282] This is like a small winning to me that understanding that my brother is safe.

[283] So the Russian offensive continues now for the three days.

[284] In the last 42 hours, Russia launched cruise and ballistic missiles on Syria, attacked Ukraine with aviation, tanks, and artillery.

[285] I mean, I think everyone saw yesterday the footage of the rocket getting into a residential complex in Kiev.

[286] We are absolutely appalled by the Russian crimes against humanity, which we see throughout Ukraine.

[287] Responsibility for these actions is inevitable, regardless of how much time it will take us to defend our country.

[288] I'm here in order to protect my family, my country and my region where my people.

[289] I just want to live in our country, this all of course.

[290] Do you know how to use the gun?

[291] No, a little bit.

[292] We started to teach two days ago.

[293] It's awful.

[294] Wow.

[295] Are you scared?

[296] Of course.

[297] There are Russian bays in my village.

[298] And from my village they're going to go here on Kyiv to capture it.

[299] to capture it.

[300] Yeah, it's really scary, terrifying.

[301] I am called to my parents.

[302] They're really scared.

[303] There's Russians in our village enemies.

[304] I hope that they will be fine.

[305] We don't give our freedom anybody.

[306] Never.

[307] Until we die.

[308] Andrew is 23.

[309] And until a couple weeks ago, he was a normal guy in his early 20s, a computer programmer.

[310] Days before Russia invaded, he signed up with the Territorial Defense Force in Kiev, saying it's what he needed to do for his country.

[311] And over the past few days, we've been talking about his first days of service.

[312] So how were, what was your first day like?

[313] I come to my base, they give me my weapons and uniform, but we haven't good training because it wasn't enough time to do that.

[314] And what is a day like?

[315] Territorial defense have to protect some important place in Kiev.

[316] You go to the place that commander told you, said you should go there.

[317] In some places, in some more important places, you could have contact with the enemy.

[318] And what does it actually look like in the streets of Kiev right now?

[319] Yesterday, it was fucked, really fact.

[320] Sorry about my French, but...

[321] That's okay.

[322] It was not far from a railway station, almost in a city center.

[323] And what happened?

[324] It was a street fights, a group of Russian on vehicles, like military vehicles with guns, start a fight.

[325] So, yeah, it was a bad situation.

[326] What does a street fight look like in Kiev?

[327] I can send you a video about this.

[328] Okay.

[329] Okay, I'll watch the video.

[330] Can you try to describe?

[331] It was Russians and our military forces.

[332] And also some group of territorial defense.

[333] You can hear when bullets flying under you, it feels like really, really close to you.

[334] and this sounds fierce sounds of bullets or it was really scared you were really scared it was not emotion i think it was something from inside it was like something animal stuff I haven't feel anything before like that before.

[335] When bullets finish flying, that means they need to recharge their weapons and you have time to shoot, to answer shoot, and you start like city fight.

[336] But Russians are not in good position in city because there are a lot of of us in Kyiv.

[337] Only in Kyiv, like more than 10 ,000 of us.

[338] In cities, we have better positions than our enemy.

[339] You know the city better than they do, because you live there.

[340] Much more better.

[341] And how did this fight end?

[342] Good, good.

[343] Can you tell me if you, did you fight back?

[344] Yes, of course.

[345] I'm shooting.

[346] I'm trying to hit the enemy.

[347] Okay.

[348] And Andrew, what is your understanding of how Ukraine is doing right now in the war?

[349] We are winning in the information war.

[350] You're winning in the information war, yes.

[351] Yeah, yeah.

[352] Right.

[353] How about the physical war, though?

[354] Do you think you're winning that war?

[355] physical to be clear I'm not allowed to talk about this okay maybe after this sheet ends I can talk about this more clearly but not now okay I understand Andrew we spoke a week ago and at that point you'd made the decision to fight and to join the territorial defense forces.

[356] How are you feeling now one week later about that decision?

[357] I'm happy that I'm in territorial defense because I'm still alive.

[358] I'm happy that I made this decision, but I'm still have feelings that I'm not doing all that I can.

[359] what do you mean we have winning this war only because our like regular forces they made so much for us to be alive and I'm just in Kiev in base but they don't have this pleasure You can only do so much because you don't have the training.

[360] You've just joined a few days ago.

[361] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[362] Just simple, 23 years old men.

[363] Nothing special.

[364] It's 5 p .m. on Sunday night in Kiev.

[365] What is the rest of your night going to look like, Andrew?

[366] You never know, you never know.

[367] It's a war.

[368] On Monday, Ukrainian forces retained control of major cities, but as the invasion entered a fifth day, Russia appeared to be stepping up its military campaign.

[369] A convoy of Russian armed forces 40 miles long moved closer to Kiev, as troops also moved to towns west of the capital in what may be an attempt to encircle the city and cut off supply lines to arms and other military equipment arriving from European countries.

[370] In the city of Harkeyev, videos showed Russian rockets hitting a residential neighborhood, the most aggressive targeting of a civilian area since the invasion began.

[371] In the time since we spoke with him, Eugene told us he followed up with Ukraine's territorial defense forces in Harkeyev, and was told that they have enough soldiers and that for the time being don't want any more untrained citizens.

[372] Tigran is still in Ukraine.

[373] He heard that some people were successfully crossing the border at another location, so he booked a ticket there and plans to try to leave Ukraine tomorrow.

[374] Half a million refugees have now fled the country.

[375] Finally, Andrew told us that on Monday, two people in his battalion were killed in Kiev and that he's now ready to fight on the front lines.

[376] In my opinion, more than half of my battalion will die here.

[377] More than half of your battalion will die, you think?

[378] Yeah, yeah.

[379] How do you feel about that, personally?

[380] I feel a chance to stay alive.

[381] Of course, you never know will you die or will you still alive?

[382] But it's like intuition.

[383] So I hope my intuition is working.

[384] Right.

[385] We'll be right back.

[386] Here's what else you need to another day.

[387] On Monday, three West Coast states, California, Oregon, and Washington said they will drop school mask mandates in the coming days.

[388] In the latest example of local governments rolling back pandemic restrictions, it followed a similar decision by New York, which was a will end its mask mandate for schools tomorrow.

[389] And a major new study has found that Pfizer -Biontek's COVID vaccine is much less effective in preventing infection in children ages 5 to 11 than in older children or adults.

[390] The finding is significant because the Pfizer vaccine is the only shot authorized for children in that age group.

[391] The vaccine prevents severe illness in children, but offers virtually no protection against infection.

[392] Today's episode was produced by Claire Tennis Gettor and Lindsay Garrison, with help from Jessica Chung and Alexandra Lee Young.

[393] It was edited by Lisa Tobin and MJ Davis -Linn, engineered by Chris Wood, and contains original music from Marion Lazzano and Dan Powell.

[394] Our theme music is by Jim Runberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly.

[395] That's it for the Daily.

[396] I'm Michael Bobaro.

[397] See you tomorrow.