Navigating Financial Anxiety and Uncertainty

[0] quarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships, never the fake kind.

[2] To my right is Dr. John Deloney, and he'll be co -hosting it up with me for the next couple of hours.

[3] Hey, give us a call.

[4] The numbers, triple eight, eight two, five, two, two, five.

[5] And we would love to take your calls as it relates to your life, your money.

[6] Whatever's going on in your world, we want to talk about it, especially if it concerns your finances or your relationship.

[7] Like I said, that numbers triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -25, and we will look forward to talking to you.

[8] In the meantime, John, I got to tell you, I'm really, really excited.

[9] I see here on my desk that the marriage and money, money and marriage getaway, is back.

[10] It's back.

[11] And you joined us last year.

[12] It was a party.

[13] I did.

[14] It was amazing.

[15] I don't think we've ever done an event like that at Ramsey before.

[16] It was the first of its kind for sure.

[17] First time ever.

[18] And it was so successful that it was a 50 %.

[19] I've never seen anything like it, a 50 % buyback, which means half of the audience there bought tickets for next year.

[20] Shoot.

[21] We had to invent new VIP tickets because they were all sold out.

[22] So this fall, October 24th through 26th, join me, Rachel Cruz, probably Jade.

[23] Come on, let me in.

[24] You're in.

[25] And a whole gang of us for a weekend away in Nashville, Tennessee, right here on campus to focus on your marriage.

[26] Two and a half days of teaching on communication, sex and intimacy, money.

[27] we cover everything.

[28] I was shook, John.

[29] When I walked into the auditorium at one point, like, I don't blush easily, but I was like, this is kind of, we're into it.

[30] Here's the deal.

[31] The promise is you won't leave without a question.

[32] If the only reason you won't get your question answered is if you don't ask it, right?

[33] No holds hard.

[34] Lots of Q &As.

[35] You and your spouse walk away with the tools.

[36] You need to build a deeper connection and win with your marriage, your money, with kids, all of it.

[37] Platinum tickets are gone.

[38] Very few VIP tickets left and after today's announcement they're going to be gone too.

[39] Here's a deal.

[40] This is a great Valentine's present for your significant others.

[41] So if you're wondering what to get them for Valentine's Day, buy them tickets.

[42] Say we're going to Nashville in October.

[43] Everybody will win.

[44] It'll be good.

[45] Let me just add this.

[46] If you can get the VIP tickets.

[47] Yeah, it's legit.

[48] Because I was part of that VIP event and let me just say you go to a private place that's secluded that's amazing and all the personalities are there and it's like drinks and bourbon and it's good wonderful appetite like it's quite the they in last year it'll be we'll do different things but this year some different things some same things but we we threw a prom which ended up getting off the rails I saw some things got off the rails I even started blushing and I don't blush but we're we have a musical guest show up.

[49] It's just a blast.

[50] Go to ramsysolutions .com slash events.

[51] Ramsey Solutions .com slash events.

[52] Ooh, can't wait.

[53] All right, let's hit up these phone lines, John.

[54] Let's go to Emily, who's in Boston, Massachusetts.

[55] What's going on, Emily?

[56] Doing well.

[57] Thank you for your work, and thanks for taking my call.

[58] I'm glad you're here.

[59] How can we help?

[60] Well, my husband, I knew he had a drinking problem, but I didn't really know the extent of it.

[61] Anyway, I found out he had not been paying the mortgage, and he ended up going into a rehab.

[62] So he's there, and so I have to figure out the finances because I had let him be part of the finances.

[63] And part of his assignment, in the rehab is he had to tell me about any debts he had.

[64] And so I found out he had about 70 ,000 and personal loans and about 40 ,000 in credit card charges that I didn't know about.

[65] So I guess, so I can't make minimum payments on those things.

[66] um he does have a 401k that is like 400 or 300 ,000 so someone told me I should have him ask for a hardship withdrawal to pay off these things um I'm not ready to go to that yet yeah please don't do that please don't do that anything else that you want to unpack before we dig in yeah I mean I I don't really have much.

[67] He's not out of there yet, so I don't really have much communication, so I don't.

[68] How long is there rehabilitation?

[69] It's like a few more weeks.

[70] Like two or six?

[71] Yeah.

[72] And then, so I just need to figure out, you know, how to make a budget and how to try to manage things.

[73] because I guess I'll be in charge of finances.

[74] Let me let John jump in because I think the money is going to be secondary to how you're going to cope with him being back from rehab.

[75] Yeah, you still sound scorched earth.

[76] You still sound like you got home and your houses burned to the ground and you're looking around.

[77] How long has you been gone?

[78] For since the beginning of the year.

[79] Okay.

[80] How long?

[81] And I'm not asking this in an engagement.

[82] accusing way.

[83] I'm asking this just in a practical way.

[84] How long have you been just kind of deer in headlights?

[85] Like everything feels so overwhelming, right?

[86] Yeah.

[87] I mean, I was able to make, you know, the payments on the mortgage and rectify the mortgage.

[88] So I've like stabilized things.

[89] Okay.

[90] All right.

[91] So the one key here is you're going to have to feel this.

[92] You're going to have to grieve this y 'all are going to have to rebuild your marriage from from ash okay everything that was before is going to be different now and you know you feel that but it's just important to say it out loud and that's not time it's not time for that yet it's time for you to stand up as tall as you can get some women in your life that you trust to walk with you and you've got to like you said I'm not going to I just got to figure out a budget no you are now trying to save your own life for a season okay right I'm going to I am going to declare that I'm going to make a budget and I'm going to follow it and I'm going to find all of these debts and I'm not going to borrow against our family's future in order to clean up a bunch of nonsense I'll call these debtors and say I'll get to you when I get to you I have no money right now and we're going to go for right now right Right.

[93] So I want you to hear that I'm standing up as tall as I can.

[94] And there is going to be an element of fake it till you make it.

[95] That's okay.

[96] That's okay.

[97] But never again, are you going to put all of your debts?

[98] Are you going to put all of your, I don't even know how the mortgage is getting paid any of that kind of stuff?

[99] I'm never going to put that all in one person.

[100] Okay?

[101] I want you to hang on the line.

[102] We're going to keep you over because I want to talk through some very tactical things.

[103] Jade's going to talk to you about some very tactical money things.

[104] But we come back from the break.

[105] You're going to be standing six inches taller.

[106] Some of it, you're going to be faking it.

[107] Some of it's going to be for real.

[108] Because we are going to reclaim your life.

[109] And when your husband gets out of rehab, he's going to be different.

[110] And so are you.

[111] We'll be right back.

[112] Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success.

[113] So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website.

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[118] MLS ID 1591 and MLS Consumer Access .org, Equal Housing Lender.

[119] 1749, Mallory Lane, Suite 100.

[120] Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[121] All right, you are listening to The Ramsey Show.

[122] I'm Jade Warshall.

[123] This is John Deloney and the last segment we were talking to a wonderful lady named Emily.

[124] She was telling us a little about her situation with a husband who has gone away at rehab for alcoholism and she is at home trying to make sense of what's going on with the money mortgage was behind but she got that up to date but has found out that her husband has what looks like over $100 ,000 racked up in different personal loans and credit card loans and things like that.

[125] Emily, did I get it right?

[126] Did I leave anything out?

[127] No, that's correct.

[128] So John was telling you, you know, by the time this segment is over, we're going to make sure you're standing tall, feeling confident.

[129] I had a couple of questions to ask.

[130] Do you guys have kids?

[131] Yes, four.

[132] Did you say four?

[133] Yes.

[134] Oh, my goodness.

[135] What are their ages?

[136] The oldest is 18 and the little is six.

[137] Okay.

[138] And are you working outside of the home?

[139] Yes.

[140] What do you do?

[141] I'm a nurse.

[142] Okay.

[143] And how much income are you bringing in?

[144] About 100 ,000.

[145] And what did your husband bring in?

[146] About the same.

[147] $100 ,000.

[148] Did he lose his job?

[149] No. Okay.

[150] So he'll come back to that same salary?

[151] Yes.

[152] Okay.

[153] All right.

[154] So, you know, I'm looking at this and I'm going, okay, you guys have a great income.

[155] I hate to say it like this, but personal issues aside, financially you guys have the ability to clean this mess up.

[156] and I see that in the numbers, it is going to take you getting on a budget, like John mentioned before.

[157] And I think that's something that you can do on your own at this point.

[158] Because, John, I want you to chime in here because at what point when you're dealing with a situation like this, when do you decide, okay, for the time being, you don't have access to the money or you have access to whatever you're bringing in?

[159] But at what point do you draw a clear line and say, I haven't been able to trust you financially.

[160] and so I'm going to have to take this and until we decide otherwise.

[161] Talk to that.

[162] Anytime somebody's struggling with addiction, somebody's using or somebody's gambling, it's just self -preservation.

[163] You have to.

[164] And so if somebody, if I got out of rehab and I'd been gone on a 30 -day treatment program and my wife was at home, I would be in favor of establishing a 90 or 120 days where I don't have access to things.

[165] And that is doing two things.

[166] One, letting my wife reestablish trust in me and me and her.

[167] And number two, making sure our house has footing.

[168] Because you're going to come right back to the same temptations, the same life, the same busy four kids, the same chaos, a wife who's making six figures as a nurse, and then I'm making six figures in my job, all that stuff comes rushing back at you, right?

[169] You get 30 days in solitude where you can breathe, you got counselors all day, you got you got team you got a group of people um it's a lot when you get out so i would definitely recommend them building in some hey i have i'm paying bills for the next three months four months five months six months and we're going to slowly reintegrate this thing together emily does that sound like something that the man you know would go along with um i hope so i'm not sure let me ask you this.

[170] Are you, is your marriage going to survive this?

[171] Do you have any interest in still being married to this guy?

[172] Yes.

[173] I, yes, I'd like to give him a chance.

[174] Okay.

[175] I think it's really important that you, like I said, sit with a counselor or with a couple of women and you verbalize out loud, but I want you to create a list of needs and a list of wants moving forward.

[176] That way, there's no guessing.

[177] It's going to be clear as kind.

[178] You're going to lay out for this marriage to, for me to be invested in rebuilding this marriage from the floor up, here's what must be true.

[179] You can't drink.

[180] You can't be violent in the home.

[181] We will pay bills together every week, right?

[182] Like, whatever you need to reestablish trust in your home, and by the way, you're going to have to reestablish trust with Emily.

[183] Fair?

[184] Yes.

[185] Yes.

[186] How much of this are you weighing on yourself that you can't believe that you let it get like this.

[187] Oh, a lot.

[188] Okay.

[189] I want you to let that go.

[190] Yeah.

[191] Okay?

[192] We're going to let that go.

[193] We learned a lesson, and it's not going to happen again.

[194] That's unfair?

[195] Yeah.

[196] Okay.

[197] Did we answer your questions?

[198] I want to make sure we got you all the help you need before you go.

[199] Yeah.

[200] I think it would be fair to say.

[201] you know he would not have access to things um i guess have to contact these different and say i can't pay them i don't know well let's talk about that a little bit um on a scale of one to ten how confident do you feel with managing money or paying bills um maybe a three okay so before we get off the call i'm going to make sure you get set up with every dollar which is our budgeting app it's really intuitive it's very easy to walk through your homework from me, John gave you some homework.

[202] My homework is I want you to download every dollar and I want you to splurge on the premium version because you can afford it.

[203] And I want you to start plugging in those numbers tonight.

[204] I want you to start filling it in.

[205] It's going to have a place for you to list your income and when you get paid.

[206] And then from there on, I want you to write out everything that your heart can think of that you might possibly spend money on.

[207] The bills that you know about and even things that you hadn't really, you know, that you don't do, you know, all the time.

[208] But it's like, well, we might spend money.

[209] it's my daughter's birthday coming up or whatever it is.

[210] And I want you to fill out that budget until the number above gets to zero.

[211] You're making a zero -based budget.

[212] And that's going to give you a lot of peace and just, honestly, visibility to see where you guys' is money is going because $200 ,000 is a lot of money to bring in.

[213] And then there's a section where you can list out the debts.

[214] Now, you told me that your husband racked up $70 ,000 in personal loans and $40 ,000 in credit cards.

[215] My guess is there's probably some more debt laying around.

[216] I'm guessing, yes?

[217] Yeah.

[218] Some cars.

[219] some other things like that so I want you to go through that and hey Austin will you set her up with customer care I want to see about coaching I want to see about Ramsey Plus I want to give her the whole Shaboodle because she needs it she's been going through it and I want to make sure that she is set up and one last thing Emily it may require this getting well on the back into this might require selling your house and y 'all move into apartment for a season it might require selling the cars It might require selling the lakehouse or the boat or the whatever it's going to take to get squared up.

[220] Do not borrow from your 401K.

[221] You're not there yet.

[222] You're even close to there yet.

[223] And be prepared to keep all of these things that your life revolved around, these vacations, these homes, these assets.

[224] Hold them very loosely with an open hand because the goal here is a new marriage.

[225] The goal here is financial security.

[226] The goal here is a new you.

[227] And you can't hold on to your old life and get something completely.

[228] new.

[229] That's a very, very good point.

[230] Ooh, that was heavy.

[231] That was a lot.

[232] Listen, I'm glad that you talked about this, John, because I say it a lot when it comes to money and couples.

[233] And, you know, here on the Ramsey show, we say all the time, like, combine your money.

[234] Your money's got to be combined.

[235] And everybody's marriage situation is different.

[236] Obviously, in a healthy relationship, combining finances should be second nature.

[237] For some people, it's not.

[238] And if it's not, you have to work towards that.

[239] But there are really, really real situations that people are encountering where both people in the relationship are not healthy.

[240] And so because of that, the idea of combining finances with someone who has displayed addictions or financial infidelity.

[241] Yes.

[242] It's like, okay, lack of control.

[243] I need people to understand there is those points where you do draw that line and say, hey, right now and this season, and I love that you kind of gave it a 90 to 120 days deal.

[244] Now, her husband was willing to go to rehab.

[245] What about somebody who's like, listen, my spouse is just not there yet?

[246] Then you have to take, you have to take, she's got four kids.

[247] She's got four kids.

[248] Right.

[249] I'm going to put my money in my own account and we're not splitting and I'm going to figure that out.

[250] And that's just, that's just you got to survive.

[251] Yeah.

[252] Right.

[253] It's you got to survive.

[254] It goes back to we tell people to be gazelle intense.

[255] That's not a way of life long term.

[256] That is a right now because your family is at such risk.

[257] that we want you to sprint.

[258] Don't go out to eat.

[259] Don't do anything.

[260] Don't do anything of joyful.

[261] Just get out of debt.

[262] Very similar.

[263] This isn't long term.

[264] This isn't going to be good for your marriage long term.

[265] This is about you surviving.

[266] And that person keeps taking your money out of your account and your kids are at risk.

[267] You're at risk.

[268] I'm going to have my own account, my own money, my own stuff until my partner's safe and is well.

[269] And then we can build something together.

[270] Such good advice.

[271] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

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[287] All right.

[288] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[289] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[290] This is John Deloney.

[291] Thanks for hanging out with us.

[292] If you want us to take your call, give us a call.

[293] The number is triple 8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -25, and we will chop it up with you.

[294] Let's go directly to the phone lines where we've got Catherine and Knoxville, Tennessee.

[295] What's going on, Catherine?

[296] Hi, I'm doing well.

[297] How are you?

[298] We're doing great.

[299] All right.

[300] So my question for you guys is my husband and I recently moved to Tennessee, and we just had our first baby in October.

[301] Nice.

[302] And we have some debt.

[303] A majority of it is student loans.

[304] Okay.

[305] We owe, well, he owes $58 ,000 for student loans.

[306] 58?

[307] Yes.

[308] Five, eight.

[309] You said that very strategically.

[310] Y 'all both own, right?

[311] Yes.

[312] You all both own.

[313] Yes.

[314] We both own it because we're married.

[315] There you go.

[316] Yeah, yeah.

[317] What else you got?

[318] So we also have a little over $21 ,000.

[319] I guess it would be considered consumer debt.

[320] I hope I'm saying that right.

[321] Okay.

[322] What is it?

[323] So like our cars, I owe a little over $5 ,000 on my car.

[324] Okay.

[325] He owes a little over $6 ,000.

[326] on his.

[327] I have a loan with his mother, so there's zero interest in that for about 33 years.

[328] Oh, there's interest.

[329] Oh, there's interest, Tiffany.

[330] There's interest, all right.

[331] That's the highest interest loan you can have, Catherine.

[332] How much is that loan?

[333] $3 ,300.

[334] Okay, we paying that off.

[335] It might be $3 .3 million.

[336] And then $4 ,000 for the birth of my child.

[337] Okay.

[338] and $2 ,000 in credit card debt.

[339] So I believe that equals right around, around $21 ,000 or so.

[340] Okay.

[341] I'm with it.

[342] All right.

[343] And we have $28 ,000 in our savings.

[344] Oh, fantastic.

[345] Okay.

[346] Hey, hold to, Jade.

[347] Before you go in, can I just say one thing, Catherine, I'm going to turn you over to Jade because she's the expert here.

[348] I really want, how long have you and your husband have been married?

[349] We just had our first.

[350] year anniversary in September.

[351] We've been together for five years.

[352] Okay.

[353] So I'll give you a little bit of a pass until the end of the day, okay?

[354] I want you and your husband after this phone call to be highly intentional about using the word ours and we.

[355] Okay.

[356] Not his, mine, hers, this is ours.

[357] It's called a vocab rehab.

[358] Oh, I like that.

[359] Vocab rehab.

[360] And here's the language here matters because resentment builds out of the they did this okay when we did this then we're going to solve it cool but resentment is he did this to me yes yes he took all these student loans out even though he's got a job and he's making a bunch of money he took all these loans out and it makes me scared and right instead of nope I married him I love him we made a human together we owe this money we are going to pay this off see the difference absolutely totally okay all right same team one team one dream oh todd there you go all right here we go okay so you have some money in savings which is great 28 ,000 let's spend it like let's spend it paying off some of this debt specifically mama -in -law we're going to get that today today so here's what I want you to do today and then I'm going to tell you what I'd like for you to do then I want you to tell me your objections to it and then I'll smooth it out for you number one we're listing the debts from smallest to largest.

[361] That's called a debt snowball.

[362] You list them from smallest to largest and you make minimum payments on everything.

[363] But with extra money, you put it towards the smallest debt.

[364] And in this case, you have lots of extra money lying around called savings because the way we teach the first step in getting your finances together is to just put $1 ,000 aside.

[365] We call that baby step one.

[366] And you've got that.

[367] And then the next step is to pay off your debt using the debt snowball method, which we're about to do right here.

[368] So if we keep $1 ,000 aside, that leaves you with $1 ,000.

[369] 27 ,000 that you can knock out this debt.

[370] And you basically listed it for me largest to smallest.

[371] So I've got it written here smallest to largest.

[372] So let's pay out that credit card that's 2000.

[373] This is what you're doing like today.

[374] Pay off that credit card that's 2000.

[375] Then you're going to come in here and you're going to pay off mom in law, which is 3 ,300.

[376] Then after that, you're going to come over and pay that deductible and get it, clear that out.

[377] And you're done with baby.

[378] And then you can clear out these cars, pay off both cars.

[379] That's crazy.

[380] How much peace does that give you?

[381] It gives me peace, but I'm not going to lie.

[382] I get worried about only having $1 ,000 with a new baby.

[383] I just, I get, I have a lot of fear when it comes to finances.

[384] I grew up very poor, and my husband didn't necessarily grow up the same way.

[385] So he doesn't have any anxiety when it comes to finances, and I'm like a total worry work.

[386] Do you know what's scarier, though?

[387] What if something comes up?

[388] And that's what I'm trying to help you with.

[389] If something comes up and you have no debt, then nothing's popping.

[390] Like, nothing's coming up.

[391] But if something comes up and you have lots of debt, then you're screwed.

[392] Because here's a thing.

[393] Something comes up.

[394] Let's assume the worst because you're like, oh, we have a baby.

[395] What's the worst that could happen?

[396] You lose your jobs.

[397] $28 ,000 is not going to go very far when you've got credit cards.

[398] a deductible, mom to pay back, two cars that you're paying.

[399] That's called stress.

[400] But the moment that you pay off that debt, think about how much money is going to be back in your hands because you're not making payments.

[401] You're going to stack up $28 ,000, lickety split.

[402] And then when the big bad wolf comes to blow your house down, you're going to have no debt and $28 ,000.

[403] Yeah.

[404] So this is a short term.

[405] This is you kind of having that short term freak out just to get your, your cards in order.

[406] You should feel nervous.

[407] Yeah.

[408] It's a thousand bucks.

[409] The space between you and calamity is very, very thin.

[410] Yeah.

[411] It's supposed to feel that way.

[412] That's the fire that you're going to run through the rest of this student loan mess with and be done forever.

[413] Okay.

[414] So that you're free.

[415] Yeah.

[416] Now, I grew up without a lot either.

[417] Okay.

[418] Okay.

[419] My dad worked really hard and real, real, real hard.

[420] And things were really tight.

[421] And for a season, I put secure.

[422] in two things, stuff, and what I would call a pretend pocket of money.

[423] And that's what you've done.

[424] You got a house that you didn't have growing up.

[425] You got a husband with a job that you didn't have growing up.

[426] You got two cars you didn't have growing up.

[427] And you've got this magical little pot of money that feels like it's yours.

[428] It is not yours.

[429] You've already spent it.

[430] You spent it on a baby.

[431] You spent it on two cars.

[432] It's not yours.

[433] Just go ahead and give it away.

[434] It's fake.

[435] Yeah, you're right.

[436] Now what I'm going to tell you is peace on the other side.

[437] when you don't owe anybody anything and nobody can take anything from you.

[438] Yeah.

[439] That's a piece that those who struggled with less than growing up, they don't understand it until they get there, dude, and it's magic.

[440] Totally.

[441] How much do you and your husband make together?

[442] So I stay at home with our son, and he brings in, he works full -time, and he makes about $55 ,000.

[443] Okay.

[444] A year.

[445] Cool.

[446] And are you guys living on a budget?

[447] Yes.

[448] So we just did our budget this month and we're really trying to buckle down on it.

[449] We're not big spenders on we don't do a lot of extras.

[450] I think the most where if we are spending is I tend to food hoard a little bit.

[451] Me too.

[452] Me too.

[453] Same team.

[454] I buy more than what we need in groceries.

[455] Okay.

[456] So here's the thing.

[457] You know, you've got the money to clear.

[458] out all these little ankle biter debts and you've even got you know you'll have three or four thousand uh five thousand or so that you can throw onto the student loan but where it's really going to require you buckling down and jumping into that mindset that john just talked about is when it comes to the student loan because the student loan is 50 you know by the time you pay down a little of it it's going to be 55 and you earn 55 so yeah what kind of degree did he get costing the same he has his degree in early childhood education, his bachelor.

[459] Is he a teacher?

[460] He doesn't know.

[461] Okay.

[462] He actually works for a zoo.

[463] Okay.

[464] Here's a deal.

[465] He's going to have to get a second and probably a third job, making an additional $25 ,000 a year.

[466] And you might need to pick up some work that you can do at home.

[467] That's what I was going to bring up.

[468] So he also is a licensed tattoo artist.

[469] So he was working two jobs when he was.

[470] we lived back in Connecticut, and now he is looking to get licensed in Tennessee and also work.

[471] Look, he needs, whatever he can do to bring in some money.

[472] I always say, do whatever you can.

[473] And that includes you too.

[474] He's not the only one that can work extra.

[475] You've got some time in your day where you can pick up some extra cash.

[476] This is The Ramsey Show.

[477] You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

[478] I am Jane Warshall, your host, joined by Dr. John Deloney, your other host, author of, building a non -anxious life.

[479] John, such a great book, one of my favorites.

[480] And hey, if you love listening to The Ramsey Show, do us a favor and consider liking it, subscribing it, and definitely sharing it, whatever platform you like listening to the show, whether it's YouTube, whether it's on your favorite podcast app, just share it with somebody.

[481] When you do that, it helps us in so many ways.

[482] It boosts us up in the algorithms.

[483] And so a lot of other people are able to see the shows there as well.

[484] So do that for us.

[485] It's absolutely free.

[486] And we would be oh so grateful and oh so appreciative of you for doing that.

[487] So like, share, subscribe.

[488] That is the ask.

[489] In the meantime, let's go to the phone lines.

[490] We got Laney in South Bend, Indiana.

[491] What's going on?

[492] Hi.

[493] So my husband and I, we make about 55 at the end of the year.

[494] And we're on baby step six, but we're just trying to figure out what we can do to cut expenses or do something in order to pay off our house quicker we just bought it in 2022 and so we're kind of on fire to pay it off but we have two kids and then another one on the way how much is the mortgage what do you owe mortgage um with everything included like interest and everything like that is um like 12 5 okay what do you what's the payoff uh when when do we pay it off Yeah, we know we're wanting to pay it off.

[495] What do you owe on it?

[496] Like what do you owe on the...

[497] Oh, oh, sorry.

[498] We owe like 142, I want to say.

[499] Cool, cool, cool.

[500] So what we have found is that when people walk through the baby steps, most people are able to pay off their mortgage within seven to ten years is what we find.

[501] That's if they've, you know, walked our steps.

[502] They're on that 15 -year fixed -rate mortgage.

[503] They're going through it.

[504] So it's safe to assume that that's probably going to be you.

[505] and in that case, it looks a lot like intentionality, a lot more so than it looks like, okay, we're getting, you know, super intense, gazelle intense is the phrase we use here.

[506] You don't necessarily have to be like that on baby step six.

[507] So you and your husband really need to sit down and decide, okay, what are we willing to do here?

[508] Is it, you know, what are we willing to sacrifice in order to find those extra payments?

[509] And what are we shooting for?

[510] Are we looking to double it?

[511] Are we looking to triple it?

[512] Like, have you guys said what it is that you're looking to do?

[513] Yeah, so we wanted to be debt -free before I turned 30.

[514] So I turned 30 January of 2030.

[515] So, but we do, we got a 30 -year mortgage.

[516] So that's where kind of the funkiness comes on is that with 55 grand and, you know, a $1 ,200 mortgage.

[517] Hey, why did you get a 30 -year?

[518] I'm going to put you on the fire for a minute because you've been walking.

[519] smart.

[520] Yeah, I know.

[521] We weren't smart.

[522] So we, we, honestly, the reality is we bought a house.

[523] We absolutely fell in love with.

[524] We knew we wanted a lot of kids.

[525] We're going to have three kids under the age of three.

[526] And we bought a house that we couldn't afford.

[527] So we did a 30.

[528] Listen, Laney, good for you for just going ahead and calling that out.

[529] Because so many people face that and they act like they had no choice in the matter.

[530] And I love that you just owned it and said, hey, we made a choice that wasn't the best choice and we did it out of emotion.

[531] So many people can relate to that.

[532] Now you're in it.

[533] So we do need to come up with a plan to get this paid off in the next six to seven years if you want to do it, you know, in the time frame that you said, correct?

[534] Right.

[535] What does your husband do for living?

[536] He's a teacher in the public schools.

[537] Okay.

[538] That actually makes me happy.

[539] Here's why.

[540] He can work in the evenings and on Saturdays and Sundays and in all summer.

[541] right and it's not going to be fun i i i like jade we teach people take your time in baby step six slowly begin to love your life a little bit you're not running for your life i also will say in my private life in my personal life i hate with all my guts i can't breathe when i owe somebody money it's like it's a it's a it's a problem from my childhood and so my wife and i sat down and said okay we can't go we can't go gazelle intense but we're going to go over the top what would that mean what would we have to and we didn't go on vacations and we didn't buy furniture we didn't do a lot of stuff we drove the same used cars i remember dave looking at my truck and being like hey i know what i pay you and it was like i know man i'm getting done with this stuff and so it's just a matter of making a plan and saying okay if we want to be done in three years or four years how much money would we have to make it's just a math problem and then one or both of you all has to go earn that money and i wish it was more complicated than that.

[542] It's just not.

[543] Well, just putting it into real numbers, partially real numbers, because I'm not using a mortgage calculator.

[544] I'm just off the top of my head.

[545] If your loan is $142 ,000 and you split that up, you said you want to have it done by that birthday.

[546] That's six years.

[547] If you split that up, you've got to be paying at least $24 ,000 a year on this.

[548] Yeah.

[549] And so you're making $55.

[550] So right off the bat, you know, if nothing changes, we ain't going to make it.

[551] We ain't going to make it because living on 25 ,000.

[552] Listen, I don't know if it's possible with the family you have.

[553] I don't think that it is.

[554] So to John's point, somebody or both of you guys are going to have to figure out a way to bring more money into the household.

[555] Have you guys had real conversations about that?

[556] We have, though, one hard thing is that, you know, we will have three kids under three at the end of October.

[557] And so just thinking about like me starting a job just to, you know, leave it for multiple months to, you know, have a newborn again.

[558] And then he absolutely, absolutely, absolutely loves his job.

[559] And these are the things, listen, I'm not taking any of that away from you.

[560] But what I am saying is you called in here and said, I want to pay off this mortgage in the next six to seven years.

[561] No, yeah.

[562] So.

[563] I won't be honest.

[564] Well, what I'm trying to, what I want to lay out for you is you may not be able to do all of that.

[565] but what you do get to decide is what you do get to do.

[566] You might not get to pay off the mortgage in seven years, but you might get to stay at home with three kids under three.

[567] Or you may have three kids under three and you take a neighbor's kid and for an extra $500 a month or whatever $8 ,000 a month, whatever childcare costs these days.

[568] Right.

[569] And I want you to keep in mind in two years, you're going to have three kids five and under.

[570] Right.

[571] And a year after that, you're going to have three kids six and under and it may be that three years the kids six and under and you don't owe anybody any money because y 'all just just bit down on your mouthpiece and went in swinging and your husband worked he got done teaching and they delivered pizzas or delivered Uber and then on Saturdays and Sundays he drove and he missed his kids but he had a long game in mind or or you extend your timeline and you're like listen we're going to pay this thing off in 10 years and you don't sacrifice to that extent because if you choose to go that route you can but you really don't need to like I can't stress that enough go ahead right go ahead I was going to say I just can't stress that enough you guys have worked hard to get to baby step six I don't know what your debt payoff journey was but here you are and if you want to go pedal to the metal you want to go balls to the wall that's fine but I don't want you to hear me say that you have to do that in this phase because well and like right now we're on baby's Step six, and we're still only spending, like, $250 on groceries.

[572] Listen, I need y 'all to live a little.

[573] Enjoy your life, too.

[574] Loosen up the purse strings, Mama.

[575] Yeah.

[576] At least go on a date every once in a while.

[577] You know, you've got to be, your income is on the tougher side for the size that your family is going to be.

[578] I'm not going to lie about that.

[579] And so you do have to be very meticulous about your budget.

[580] But I don't want you to feel like, and I'm not discarding what you said, John, if you guys decide, hey, we're going to put our heads together and we're going to work, work, work, work, work, work.

[581] That's not for everybody.

[582] That's not for everybody.

[583] If you guys decide that, I'm not mad.

[584] I'm surely not mad at you, but I really want to give you permission to go, okay, we made a mistake with this mortgage.

[585] That wasn't right.

[586] Let's at least, let's at least agree to pay this like a 15 year.

[587] Right.

[588] Yeah.

[589] And I feel like that's the goal right now.

[590] Yeah, that's the goal right now is to pay it off like a 15, but then, well, the goal was to pay it off like a 15.

[591] but then actually paid off like a five.

[592] Cool.

[593] It's just a math problem.

[594] Listen.

[595] Yeah, but now I feel like I'm trying to be more realistic and like, okay, maybe we do just need to stick at the 15.

[596] Absolutely.

[597] And just be happy with the life that we're loving.

[598] You can do what you want to do when it comes to that.

[599] Start with the 15 year.

[600] Start with paying it like a 15 year.

[601] See how it feels.

[602] And then if you feel a little better, listen, we'll try to pay it like a 10 year.

[603] See how that feels.

[604] then if you feel so inclined, you can push the pedal to the metal a little bit more.

[605] But again, it's about being intentional, not necessarily about being intense in Baby Step 6.

[606] This is The Ramsey Show.

[607] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships.

[608] I am your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by your other host, Dr. John Deloney.

[609] we're going to be taking your calls for the next couple of hours, so give us a call.

[610] The number is triple -8 -825, 5 -2 -2 -5.

[611] We'd be happy to chop it up with you.

[612] One of my favorite things about this show is it's caller -driven.

[613] So people are calling in all the time, John, telling us really their deepest and darkest secrets because what I always find so interesting is people have a very hard time talking about money with their family, their friends, even their spouses, but they'll call into this show until, like, two knuckleheads like us, their deepest darkest money secrets, the mistakes that they've made with money, and we're here for it.

[614] Probably they feel comfortable talking about that, John, because we've made all the mistakes that you could possibly make with money.

[615] Like, we've done it too.

[616] And so it's like, you're among friends who have done stupid things and had to pay the cost for it with their money.

[617] And around here, we call that stupid tax.

[618] Like, if you've ever done something that's just like, oh, what was I thinking?

[619] And now you have to pay the piper, so to speak.

[620] We call that stupid tax.

[621] And we, we want to hear that from you.

[622] Matter of fact, if you have some stupid tax that you would like to share with us, you can always email us.

[623] The email is Ask at Ramsey Solutions .com and you can put stupid tax in the subject.

[624] But of course, we have to share some of ours, right, John?

[625] What's your favorite one?

[626] I have, the list is extensive.

[627] And so there's many to choose from.

[628] Off the air, I heard her on the phone with their husband.

[629] And they were just like, this one and this one time, this one time.

[630] It was awesome.

[631] Probably the one that, there's two that stands out.

[632] Probably the one is My husband, when I met him, he had a Jeep.

[633] What's the, what's the, not Liberty, not Wrangler.

[634] Cherokee.

[635] Cherokee.

[636] Thank you.

[637] And he had finally paid it off and like made the final payment.

[638] And he was like, yes, I finally paid off my Jeep.

[639] And like, within weeks, we were at the car dealership to get a brand new Hummer, H -3.

[640] Because we were like, yes, now we have a down payment to get loans again.

[641] And I think about that to this day of like, what were we thinking?

[642] we could have entered marriage and had a paid for a car but instead we got an H3 Hummer and paid $435 a month for it It wasn't even a cool car Hey dude I I got out of college I remember I had $17 ,500 in student loans which back then was a million dollars now would be a dream right and I drove an 88 Tercell easy hatchback My friends called it the roller skate and I looked like Fred Flintstone it was so little my body was so folded up in that thing and the week I graduated I went to a dealership and got the biggest stupidest Texas compensation truck I could find and it cost more than my student loan so with one stroke of the pen I doubled my debt load and I thought I won I was like how do you like them apples America I got a truck that I can't afford oh man And it was the stupidest.

[643] I just, oh, it's so embarrassing.

[644] How long did it take before you were like, I can't.

[645] I had it sold within 18 months.

[646] I couldn't breathe.

[647] It was so expensive.

[648] It was my buddy's dad.

[649] Randy Fox, he passed away a few years ago.

[650] Randy was an accountant.

[651] And I remember I drove it over to show him how cool it was.

[652] And he just looked at me and goes, this is stupid.

[653] He's a math guy.

[654] And just the way he looked at it.

[655] I was like, oh, no, what am I done?

[656] Stupid tax.

[657] I love it.

[658] Okay.

[659] In that same realm, I hate to say this, John, but I think we've all done the rooms to go, you know, no payments until, you know, the year 20, 2030 or whatever.

[660] And you're like, all right.

[661] And in your mind, in that moment, you're like, that year will never come because it's like 15 years later.

[662] Like, you're like, this year can never come.

[663] That's a problem for future, Jade.

[664] We get it right now.

[665] We get it right now.

[666] And I think we bought the ugliest furniture that you could buy.

[667] It was all dark brown and it all matched.

[668] You know what I mean?

[669] it's like you get the bed frame and the foot frame and the matching side tables and the you know the dresser and it all looks exactly the same like no character and uh i don't know what we paid for it but i know that they had said you know no payments until you know you're old and gray we won and somehow those payments came due and i was like oh crap i didn't have that stupid tax i had probably another segment called stupid marriage idiot uh it was after my second book went number one and we're having dinner at the house and my wife said this is last year she's like hey we've had a good couple of years and I was like yep could we get rid of the headboard that you bought off Craigslist and spray painted 15 years ago and I was like it works great and she's like what if we what if we bought real furniture so we got our first bed and I'm very excited about it so funny but you did it the right way hey you know what we waited 20 years I'm such a catch ladies I'm a catch Listen that's better than the stupid tax If you have stupid tax stories Be sure to let us know Ask at ramsysolutions .com Put stupid tax in the subject We want to hear about those and talk about them On the show Let's go to Trevor He's in Savannah Georgia Trevor you're on the line Hello Excited to talk deal You too what's going on So I got a question I'll just lay out some facts for you That way you kind of know on a basis of where I come from and then I'll shoot the question.

[670] So I am 25.

[671] I have no debt right now.

[672] I bought all my toys with cash, paid for all them.

[673] I'm not married.

[674] I make $80 ,000 a year about, I'm commissioned based, so somewhere around there.

[675] Okay.

[676] Anyway, I am looking, my next purchase would be a house.

[677] I know that Dave always says, the house, not the interest rate.

[678] So my question is, I know that y 'all say 20 % down.

[679] Would you be okay or would it be okay to get something with closer to like maybe 10 or 12 % down?

[680] That way I can go ahead and start paying a mortgage on the house or should I wait, you know, two or three more years or so and save up the whole 20 % and then buy five in?

[681] If you can afford it and it's less than 25 % or less of your take -home pay on a 15 -year fixed rate, I'd probably go ahead and do it.

[682] Okay.

[683] I mean, the range is between 5 and 20%.

[684] If you can get to 20, that's great.

[685] I don't know that I would delay it by three years to get there.

[686] Yeah, and it may not take that long.

[687] I mean, I'm pretty good at saving.

[688] I do have $1 ,000 like emergency fee and then a three to six -month emergency fund set up.

[689] So, you know, if I bought an air condition went out or whatever, I'm covered there.

[690] okay cool so what are you looking at that's a pretty straightforward so where I live I live right around Savannah somewhere around the 300 ,000 range okay and what percentage of your take home is that going to end up being um it'd probably be about 1 ,500 a month or so I make about 45 so that would be you know right around maybe 2 ,700 something like that 20 or 27 percent maybe 30 percent something like that i'd want to listen i'm not trying to split hairs but try to get it to 25 if you can yeah you know 26 27 i'm not too mad at but if you know you're upwards of 30 i would i would hold back because unless you see your income going up to cover that 5 percent in the foreseeable future listen that 5 percent you feel it and you're going to feel it in other areas of your budget whether it be your spending budget your fund money it's going to shake out and somewhere down the line, especially because you're in sales and you're on commission, I really want to make sure you meet those parameters.

[691] This is the Ramsey show.

[692] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[693] Hey good folks, the back to school madness is upon us.

[694] It's hitting us right now.

[695] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[696] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects and those are the things that make our life even worth living here's what i've learned when it comes to taking care of me i have to put on my oxygen mask first and that means that i have to do the things that keep me well and whole and i know that you have to do those same things too so don't skip the things that matter to you including regular exercise hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments and when it comes to therapy Contact my friends at BetterHelp.

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[703] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Doloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[704] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[705] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[706] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw.

[707] Your other host is Dr. John Deloney.

[708] We are taking your calls all hour long.

[709] Honestly, for the next couple hours, we'll talk about your life, your money, your relationships, whatever it is.

[710] You can give us a call.

[711] The number is triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -2 -5.

[712] We got Tiffany in Chattown.

[713] What's going on?

[714] Tiffany from Chattanooga.

[715] Chattanooga, yeah.

[716] We do call it chat time, though.

[717] I know.

[718] I'm glad I got a reaction from you.

[719] I've never heard that in my life.

[720] What, John?

[721] Everyone in this room is now dumber for, I'm just kidding.

[722] Go ahead.

[723] ChatTown.

[724] ChatTown.

[725] How's it going, guys?

[726] We're doing good.

[727] All right.

[728] So my question is, now, I've been married, I'm 42, I've been married for 23 years.

[729] Nice.

[730] My husband and I, yeah, we got married really young, my best friend the whole entire world, so if he is listening, I am not dogging you.

[731] Oh, gosh.

[732] Oh, this is going to be awesome.

[733] The caveat.

[734] What's going on?

[735] My question is, so we are preparing my youngest, or our youngest, to go on and move out.

[736] she's about to graduate.

[737] She's got a plan.

[738] We're working on that.

[739] So this is literally our first time being by ourselves.

[740] We got married with a kid, so we have never been by ourselves.

[741] So I'm trying to figure out, I would like to be financially free so we can have more time and all that, but he is not on the same page with me on what to do with our money.

[742] So I'm trying to figure out how to convince him to start your guys' program.

[743] Ah, interesting.

[744] Okay, so just making sure this question is not really about the child going off to school.

[745] This is about you wanting to live your best life once your kids are out of the house.

[746] Is that right?

[747] Yes.

[748] So give me a picture of what life looks like now financially.

[749] I mean, are you guys combining the money or are you on a budget?

[750] Tell me more.

[751] Okay, so literally just started listening to you guys.

[752] I binge mom at work.

[753] Don't tell anybody.

[754] Tell everybody.

[755] I just started listening.

[756] don't tell my boss but I just started listening to you guys and so we really haven't started any of the program whatsoever okay um my husband is um he has owns his own business so that kind of money is separated but i have access like we have access to each of our accounts both of us but his money for his business is separated what about the money that he pays himself in payroll does that go into a combined account or does that stay on his side no no No, it's, it just stays on his side.

[757] But I can, like, I can pull money.

[758] I mean, we don't, we don't separate like that.

[759] It's just that kind of money.

[760] It's just in a different account.

[761] Okay.

[762] So I would say that you guys probably, it sounds like the way it is, you probably could combine finances for real, for real, and it'd be pretty painless.

[763] Because by definition, I don't really feel like you're combined right now, even though it seems like there's kind of a good amount of openness.

[764] I'd like for it to be like there's no, veil.

[765] You know what I'm saying?

[766] Like it's just one account or one or two accounts that you guys are both on.

[767] It's not your account over here and his account over there, but you can kind of creep over there if you want to.

[768] So that would probably be the first step is I'd sit down tonight and say, you know, Bob, I love you.

[769] And I think that I'd love to start really combining our money.

[770] I know that we have access into each other's accounts, but I would love if we just had it in one place and we can see it together.

[771] And while I'm on this subject, I listen to some crazy folks on the radio and they said that we should get a budget.

[772] And I'd love to start budgeting with you.

[773] And kind of just let him know what's on your heart and let him know that you're really excited about this.

[774] And more than that, tell them why you're excited about it.

[775] And I think that's going to be a good introduction into the conversation.

[776] Because if somebody comes to me, John, and says, I want you to be a bigger part of my life.

[777] And financially, I'd love if we could share money together.

[778] And can share mine with you and you can share yours with me. And I love if we could sit down and like plan our month together and like all the fun things that we want to do with money and what we want to accomplish.

[779] For me, that's a love language.

[780] Like that's a compliment.

[781] Now, I don't know your husband.

[782] I called him Bob.

[783] What's his name?

[784] His name is Nick.

[785] Okay.

[786] I don't know, you know, what gets Nick's wheels turning, but, you know, put it in a way that is going to be appealing to him as well.

[787] So I'm going to overly gender this.

[788] And so, everybody be nice to me in the internet's on the internet's um i hear often a wife women saying i would love to be a part of your life coming at it from the joy angle how can how can i be how can we do more of this thing called marriage together i often hear men respond in that way to i've already got this figured out i'm fine they want to be lone wolves that's right And so where I've seen women be successful, wives be successful, Tiffany, is saying, hey, our youngest is leaving the house.

[789] I want to go spend a half day together and dream about what could be.

[790] And when he says, well, you know, I've been really busy.

[791] The next answer is because I'm scared to death to continue living like we are right now.

[792] And that has a way of stopping people in their tracks because no man, no husband worth one ounce of salt wants his wife scared.

[793] That's a good point.

[794] In her own home.

[795] And so there's something about saying, I feel out of control.

[796] I feel like we don't know where we're going.

[797] I feel like we're going to wake up in 10 years and we're going to be in this exact spot.

[798] And I don't want that.

[799] Will you join me?

[800] Yeah.

[801] That's kind of because I laid out everything already.

[802] I have a whiteboard.

[803] I have all of our amounts out of what we owe and everything like that.

[804] And then just the other day, like this was when it hit me that he was just not on the same page, he said, I want to sell the trailer.

[805] And when I sell the trailer, I want to put it into some stocks.

[806] And I was like, I thought we were paying bills.

[807] So let me ask you.

[808] Well, I, yeah, foundationally, who changed?

[809] Did you change?

[810] Or have you always, like, did you guys start out on a path together that is like, we believe in stocks and we believe in debt and we believe in?

[811] Or have you always kind of been like, I don't know how I feel about this.

[812] And just.

[813] not talked about it like I do want to know a little bit more of that because there is something in a relationship where it's like wait a minute I thought we were doing this together and then one person truly like up and changes and doesn't want to be so um I don't think either one of us changed I think at this point like I said we got married really young and um we had a financial struggle our whole entire life this is the first time that I felt um though yes I have debt and I know you will disagree, but this is the first time I felt like we could actually make a step forward in our financial freedom, where before we were always just drowning.

[814] Just trying to stay.

[815] Yeah.

[816] Yeah, just trying to survive.

[817] So Tiffany, here's what you've had.

[818] Yeah.

[819] You've had a husband that's been ashamed to look his wife in the eyes for most of your marriage.

[820] Because he's a small business owner that hasn't been able to create the world that he wanted to create and he knew one one play he had one tool in his toolkit and that was hit the gas even harder and don't take your foot off and y 'all have scratched and clawed and he's got there and now he's going to try to catch it up by by putting it all on red seven which is playing stops fair yes yeah and this is when you sit down and say i'm scared to death right so So then let's look at, you said you have it all whiteboarded out.

[821] Tell me about what's on the whiteboard.

[822] I want to know the numbers real quick.

[823] I want to know, give me in a nutshell, how much debt you have to pay off.

[824] You don't have to list it all out because we don't have a ton of time, but I want to know what you guys earn.

[825] Okay, so we bring in about $100 ,000.

[826] About $70 ,000 is mine, and then the rest is his being a small business owner.

[827] He, you know, it's different, but that's right.

[828] it.

[829] And then we owe about $38 ,000 in debt minus the mortgage.

[830] So it does not include the mortgage.

[831] And when you guys sell this trailer, what do you think it'll bring realistically?

[832] Or is that $38K the trailer?

[833] No, no, no. No, it's not the trailer.

[834] It's, we own the trailer.

[835] The trailer probably bring in, I think, maybe $5 ,000.

[836] Okay.

[837] So basically what you're trying to get him to see is that that money could be better spent.

[838] And you guys really aren't far away from free.

[839] freedom.

[840] You know, you pay off, you sell that trailer.

[841] You got 30, you know, $33 ,000 to pay off with $100 ,000 income.

[842] You can pay that off Lickety Split.

[843] Save yourselves up three to six months of expenses and you truly are home free.

[844] It's not like you guys have this seven -year path in front of you.

[845] This can get cleaned up in a year or less.

[846] Especially if he goes and makes some more money.

[847] Exactly.

[848] So have a sit down, talk with him, talk about how you feel.

[849] Change this thing.

[850] This is The Ramsey Show.

[851] All right.

[852] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[853] John Deloney, to my right.

[854] I have an article on my desk that is honestly pretty crazy.

[855] It was an email before it was, you know, before it was sitting here on the desk.

[856] And I looked at the email earlier today and it said, garbage deals.

[857] dealership puts customers in cars with $3 ,000 a month car payments.

[858] That's wickety, wickety, wickety, wickety, whack.

[859] Like, that's crazy.

[860] That's crazy.

[861] That's nuts.

[862] Okay, it says a New York Fed survey published earlier this week indicated that in the fourth quarter of 2023, auto loan delinquencies reached levels not seen since right after the Great Recession more than a decade ago.

[863] So we're hitting historical numbers here.

[864] It says delinquency transaction rates have pushed past pre -pandemic levels.

[865] And we remember this, though.

[866] We remember during the pandemic people were buying used cars.

[867] Yes.

[868] On like 72 month notes that, like, I have a buddy.

[869] And if you ask him, he's one of my oldest friends.

[870] Like, what do you do for a living?

[871] He says, I make bad car loans.

[872] And even he said, dude, these loans that people are asking for are absolute madness.

[873] I am just, I'm really shocked.

[874] And they're coming home to Roos now, but then it's getting worse.

[875] It's getting worse, man. Wow.

[876] It says an Edmund report from last year showed the percentage of drivers with plus $1 ,000 monthly payments jump to an all -time high.

[877] The reason is that the average amount financed for a new vehicle is around $40 ,000.

[878] Folks are putting $40 ,000 cars.

[879] That's the average.

[880] Hold on 17 % of Americans.

[881] Yeah.

[882] That's crazy.

[883] Have a $1 ,000 monthly car payment.

[884] Listen, John...

[885] Golly!

[886] Look, John, a while back, we...

[887] That's insane.

[888] And that's for one car.

[889] thousand dollars that's just one car most most households are a two car household okay that's that is groceries it's a lot and eating out or a car that at the most at the most you drive for what two hours maybe and it sits in your driveway or your garage or your parking lot where you work the parking garage folks can't even see it because it's dark in there And that's, they're a thousand dollars.

[890] I should have read this more closely before I looked at this.

[891] Yeah, it's nuts.

[892] So he says, This episode is sponsored by Preparation H because I got the hemorrhoids, James.

[893] A thousand dollars.

[894] All right.

[895] It gets worse.

[896] It goes down.

[897] Listen, he says, this leads us to two posts that were made by a certain Instagram handle.

[898] It says, they shared what appeared to be an auto dealer sharing several images online of new customers financing vehicles with payments that are as much as monthly mortgage payments.

[899] So in other words, these people are in this Instagram post and they're excited about the fact like, you know, God came through when I got me my deal, you know.

[900] It's always that too.

[901] Like, man, God heard my prayer.

[902] Yeah, it was a blessing.

[903] And now I have a $2 ,550 monthly payment.

[904] It says one person purchased a 2023.

[905] It's on the screen.

[906] One person purchased a 2023 Tahoe with a two, thousand five hundred and fifty dollar a month payment on an 84 month term that's almost a decade that's a depreciating asset it will be another person that was just one guy another person bought a 2023 sierra oh my gosh 2 ,500 dena with a three thousand dollar a month payment and he was locked in to a 96 month look there's the prayer hands why do they got to put listen listen look Listen, and look me in my eye.

[907] God didn't have nothing to do with that.

[908] You did that.

[909] That is not a blessing.

[910] Hey, can we just say, Tahoe?

[911] I'd love to have Tahoe.

[912] A brand new Sierra Denali.

[913] I love that car.

[914] And I can't imagine signing up for 96 -month term.

[915] And here's the thing, John.

[916] I'm a depreciating asset.

[917] I can't even get into the people that would sign for this.

[918] Like the guys in the photos or whoever, their level of financial literacy is clearly very, very low.

[919] And they need shows like The Ramsey Show.

[920] But whoever sold them this, I have questions about your integrity and who you are as a person and you need King Coleman because you are not doing work that matters.

[921] You're doing work that causes pain.

[922] I mean, this is horrible.

[923] Just because you can get something doesn't mean you should get it.

[924] That's really the lesson here.

[925] Just because you can get it doesn't mean it's good.

[926] Doesn't mean it was a blessing.

[927] It makes me think of that verse.

[928] And all you're getting get understanding and get wisdom.

[929] This is not wise.

[930] And just going out to get things because you can get it, because you can purchase.

[931] And on the other side, just making the sale because you can make it and because they're willing to sign, each of those, there's responsibility on both sides of that scale.

[932] The consumer has a responsibility and the the person selling on the other end has a responsibility to society to do better.

[933] To society.

[934] It's a greater good.

[935] $3 ,000 a month.

[936] Let's do some math.

[937] So the guy who's doing $3 ,000 a month on a 96 -year term, let's do a little bit of calculation here and see what that equivalates to.

[938] over time.

[939] If he invested that money, I'm sick.

[940] I'm sick.

[941] It's $400 ,000.

[942] If he invested that money over the same term instead of paying $400 ,000.

[943] $400 ,000.

[944] So he's going to be sitting on a truck that's worth about 20 to 25 % of what he bought it for in 96 months versus the other side of that.

[945] Yeah.

[946] If for eight years, and here's what I did for people checking my math, I did zero percent start like he has no money to start I did that he's investing it for eight years at an eight percent return eight percent's fine whatever it's not that great compounding monthly so he's paying three thousand dollars in a month and yeah four thousand four hundred thousand dollars in that range that's what he's giving up to be able to post on instagram and say look at the car I got I got my Sierra 2500 Denali that's crazy congratulations man you just you just tied a boat anchor around your leg and you just jumped off the bridge man and it's just going down because we know new cars they take that first hit they lose 40 to 60 % of their value in those first three to four years is critical they lose it so quickly and instead of that he's you know he's good but he's got his car though i i i'm telling you man the thousand dollars trip me out this these make me sick to my stomach um yeah you can't here's what people said let's hear what other people said Twitter.

[947] This is what people responded.

[948] They said $288 ,000 for a truck that will depreciate and one -fifth to one -fifth of that long before it's paid off.

[949] Yeah, absolutely.

[950] I don't know where he got the 2008.

[951] I don't know where he got that dollar amount from.

[952] It's going to be more than that.

[953] This guy said, dude could be almost a third of the way through a 30 -year mortgage on an expensive house when he pays off his truck.

[954] It is a mortgage.

[955] $400 ,000 is what he's sacrificing.

[956] Yeah.

[957] And here's the part that's making me sick to my stomach is people watch TV and they watch TikTok or they watch Instagram and they have this vision and maybe they know one guy at their church or one guy at their office or two guys at their office.

[958] And they know that that person's rich, whatever rich means, and that that person who's rich has car X, Y, or Z. And what they don't know is behind closed doors, the average millionaire, the number one car driven by millionaires is a is a Toyota it's a Toyota wow and this is how wealth transfer doesn't happen or does happen is somebody will end up taking this money and they're a millionaire and they're going to buy a used tundra they're going to buy a used camera use Cadillac and they're going to write a check for it and then they're going to invest three thousand dollars a month and make 400 grand and on the other side someone's going to say I got that same car yet they're going to bury themselves.

[959] They're going to bury their financial future and the financial future of those who love them and those who come after them with this type of nonsense.

[960] And this is why we tell you guys like and share the show.

[961] It's financial literacy at its finest.

[962] People need it.

[963] They don't know.

[964] This is family tree stuff right here.

[965] They don't know.

[966] This is ruining his family tree.

[967] He doesn't even know it.

[968] He thinks he's gotten a good deal.

[969] He's so excited.

[970] He's sharing it on social media And we see that.

[971] People need to know this information, like and share the show, so that people can get what we're teaching, which is knowledge, and we all know that knowledge is power.

[972] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[973] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[974] This is Dr. John Deloney, and we are going to give you real talk about your life and your money and your relationships.

[975] So give us a call.

[976] The numbers, AAA 8255 -225.

[977] Just be prepared because we're going to keep it real.

[978] Let's go to Jeannie, who's in White Plains, New York.

[979] What's going on, Jeannie?

[980] Hi, John.

[981] Hi, Jade.

[982] I have a very, very, very big, big problem.

[983] I lost my, I'm 58 -year -old single, mom of three grown boys.

[984] I lost, I had a trusted friend watching my money, and we lost it all, $400 ,000 in a brokerage firm, and he went into my retirement fund, so it's over $600 ,000 that I lost.

[985] Oh, no. Obviously, I'm devastated, but thank you, Dr. John, that I've been listening to you for a long time.

[986] So I've been trying my best.

[987] I'm in, like, trauma therapy and I'm a nurse.

[988] I make around $80 ,000 a year.

[989] I took a second job and I'm bringing in an extra $4 ,000 a month.

[990] I own a home that I have $400 ,000 in equity, and I'm just not sure what the next step is for investing.

[991] I'm I could sell the house because I always led my life you know correctly no credit card debt I paid for my children's college and now this is where I'm stuck all right oh let's like um Jeannie I hate this for you you trusted a close friend huh yes was that friend um like so what my one of my college roommates is my smart investor pro manages my money right so I'm in the same boat.

[992] I'm going to call him right after the show.

[993] Just kidding.

[994] I know he's doing great.

[995] But did your friend make stupid bets or was your friend in charge of a mutual fund that just went belly up?

[996] I think he was trying to make a lot of money and he was day trading.

[997] Basically day trading.

[998] He went to hundreds of thousands of dollars day trading and then he lost all that.

[999] He didn't want to tell me was giving me fake statements and Oh.

[1000] So he's a criminal.

[1001] Your friend is a criminal.

[1002] That's fraud.

[1003] He is.

[1004] And I've gone We've gone to the White Plains, you know, with filing charges.

[1005] But then he went outside of the brokerage firm to my retirement account, and now I'm having all these tax implications.

[1006] Well, he robbed you.

[1007] He stole from you.

[1008] I know.

[1009] Yeah, so we're going to deal with that on a separate issue, okay?

[1010] Here's the big one.

[1011] Have you forgiven Jeannie yet?

[1012] Because until you do that, you're not going anywhere.

[1013] You're going to sit right in the middle of this.

[1014] You have to.

[1015] I think I will be able to, but not yet.

[1016] Okay.

[1017] How fresh is this?

[1018] December 18th.

[1019] Ooh, child.

[1020] You're going to have to, okay, let's just be, let's just cut right to, be real honest.

[1021] How much of this do you know in your gut, things have been kind of shady for a while?

[1022] Or were you just caught flat off guard?

[1023] Caught flat off guard.

[1024] Okay.

[1025] Then you've got to forgive yourself.

[1026] Listen, we have, in our culture, we have like a process for when a friend stabbed us in the back.

[1027] we don't have a good psychology for when a friend stabs us right in the face and that's what happened to you yeah they looked you in the eye they didn't do anything conniving behind your back he stared you down and you lost everything yeah when he went into my retirement fund he had like paper checks you know hard copy checks cut and took it out of my mailbox yeah he stole he would never take out he's a criminal he's a crook listen you have to set that down.

[1028] Here's why your emotional reactivity is going to color what you do next.

[1029] Okay.

[1030] And you have to go into this next season as clear -eyed as you can be.

[1031] What does that mean?

[1032] Setting down the rage, setting down the anger, setting down your own self -hatred, setting all that crap down so that you can make a true plan moving forward.

[1033] I will listen to you.

[1034] Is that fair?

[1035] I can't even today just just trying to pump gas.

[1036] I'm shaking because I feel like I'm putting diesel in because I can't even make the decision on which you get off.

[1037] That's right, because you have lost the foundation with which you walk on, which is trust in Jeannie.

[1038] You got to let yourself know, I got robbed.

[1039] Not by your hand, but in your lap.

[1040] This is not your fault.

[1041] Most people, most of the time, have a little gut feeling that their buddy's kind of shady.

[1042] Not you.

[1043] You trusted this, too.

[1044] I did.

[1045] And he stole from you.

[1046] He was making sense.

[1047] statements, but he was handing it.

[1048] Hey, hey, let it, you got to set it down.

[1049] Because here's why.

[1050] None of that, that will come up in court.

[1051] Hopefully this idiot goes to jail.

[1052] But, yeah.

[1053] Anytime you have to divert into, and then he did this and do this, all you're doing is taking energy away from the current moment moving forward and dragging it into the back.

[1054] Okay.

[1055] Let's not go into the back seat anymore.

[1056] We're done back there.

[1057] We have to make a plan moving forward.

[1058] Fair?

[1059] Yes, it's fair.

[1060] I will listen to you.

[1061] Awesome.

[1062] Awesome.

[1063] So let's talk about the financial angle of this.

[1064] So you're living in a paid -for -home.

[1065] It's worth $400 ,000.

[1066] Tell me what other assets you have.

[1067] It's not paid for it.

[1068] It's worth $600 ,000, and I have $200 ,000 left on the mortgage.

[1069] Okay.

[1070] Okay, so you got $400 ,000 in equity.

[1071] Tell me, tell me what other money you have laying around.

[1072] I didn't have any other money, not even an emergency fund, but I've built up an emergency fund of $8 ,000 since December 18th.

[1073] Okay.

[1074] You're getting after it, aren't you?

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] Yeah, I work in a group home all night long.

[1077] I work all night now.

[1078] I want you to keep that intensity.

[1079] I want you to build up six months of expenses.

[1080] Whatever that is, basic expenses, whatever it takes, if something were to happen for you to keep things running in your household.

[1081] Okay.

[1082] You told me you're taking some overtime.

[1083] How much are you bringing home every month?

[1084] Around $7 ,000.

[1085] Okay.

[1086] And how much of that is margin?

[1087] Like, how much of it is extra?

[1088] after you pay your bills, you get groceries.

[1089] Oh, well, to be honest, maybe it's more because right now the margin is $5 ,000.

[1090] Okay, so you got $5 ,000 a margin.

[1091] That's good.

[1092] So first things first is you're building up this emergency fund.

[1093] And then after that, of all the money that you're bringing home, I want you to start investing 15 % of it.

[1094] We're just walking, we're walking old school baby steps here.

[1095] I want you investing 15 % into your 401k basics, all right?

[1096] Okay.

[1097] And then after that, we can start looking at while you're doing that, we can start looking at making extra mortgage payments because I want this $200 ,000 paid off.

[1098] I want your home paid off by the time in the next 10 years.

[1099] Like I want it done.

[1100] And I want you to go into retirement at 65 with paid for house and you've been investing.

[1101] And then at 68 if you decide to retire, you will have been investing at least $5 ,000 a month for the last 10 years.

[1102] Fair enough.

[1103] Okay.

[1104] Okay.

[1105] So let's do.

[1106] I was thinking of selling the house and using that to build more money.

[1107] No, I want you to be, I want you to be 65 with a paid -for house that no one can ever take from you.

[1108] Because here's the thing.

[1109] If you invest, I'm putting this in my, you know, I love a compound interest calculator.

[1110] If you start with zero, and I'm just putting this in here, if you start with zero dollars and you invest for 10 years, so from the time you're 58 to the time you're 68, and you get some great rate of return funds, maybe you're in a 10 % annualized rate of return.

[1111] and you're doing this every monthly $5 ,000 a month, right?

[1112] If I calculate that, that's showing me that you're going to have a million dollars.

[1113] Really?

[1114] Yes.

[1115] Okay.

[1116] So you've got time.

[1117] Like John said, it's very, the emotions are high right now, but our emotions aren't high.

[1118] This didn't happen to us.

[1119] So we can look at the numbers and we're looking at them clear and focused.

[1120] This is just showing you investing over the course in the next 10 years, $400 ,000 of income, and the rest of it is growth.

[1121] I can do that.

[1122] You can do that.

[1123] And you're going to do more because you're working like a wild woman right now.

[1124] I am because I can't be home.

[1125] If I am home, all I just do is cry.

[1126] But if I'm at work, I'm okay.

[1127] Okay, but hold on.

[1128] Don't work yourself into a grave as punishment for what you think you did wrong.

[1129] Okay.

[1130] You got hit in the mouth by somebody who said, I love you.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] You got taken advantage of.

[1133] You did not do something wrong.

[1134] So you're going to have a season.

[1135] You're going to have a decade when you thought you'd be landing the plane.

[1136] You ain't landing in the plane, honey.

[1137] You're going to be working hard.

[1138] Yes.

[1139] But we're going to be working for something not to punish ourselves.

[1140] Okay, that makes sense.

[1141] I'm working for something not to punish.

[1142] We're working so that at 70, you're going to be one of those red New York ladies with huge glasses walking around telling guys like me to get off the sidewalk with our hacky sacks.

[1143] That's what you're working for, right?

[1144] you don't need to beat yourself up, you didn't do anything wrong.

[1145] You got robbed, man, and now we're going to go make it moving forward.

[1146] Hang on the line, we're going to hook you up with Financial Peace University.

[1147] We want you to watch all the courses, and we're going to hook you up with a session with a financial coach to give you some peace of mind moving forward.

[1148] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1149] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships.

[1150] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw.

[1151] I am joined by your other host, Dr. John Deloney.

[1152] He is here with me, and we're taking your calls for the next hour.

[1153] You can give us a call the numbers, triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -25, and we will do our best to give you our best advice as it relates to your life, your money, and your situation.

[1154] So give us a call.

[1155] Let's head over to the phone lines where I see Mike from Naples, Florida.

[1156] What's going on, Mike?

[1157] How you doing, guys?

[1158] We're doing good.

[1159] How about you?

[1160] Doing good.

[1161] I'm actually 24.

[1162] I graduated college with my master's.

[1163] I have no student loans, no debt.

[1164] I have $2 ,000 in my savings and $2 ,000 in my raw car.

[1165] But I made a stupid decision and I have a car loan for about $32 ,000.

[1166] And I make around $48 ,000 a year.

[1167] So when did you get the car?

[1168] I got it in November.

[1169] I got it brand new.

[1170] And after listening to you guys for about a month, I feel really stupid.

[1171] What's the payment?

[1172] And I want that thing gone right away.

[1173] What's the payment, Mike?

[1174] Hit us.

[1175] 570 a month.

[1176] Oh, Lord.

[1177] Wow.

[1178] Got a little bit of the diaries.

[1179] How did you find us, Mike?

[1180] How did I find us?

[1181] Find you guys?

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] My parents love listening to you guys.

[1184] My parents actually swear by you guys.

[1185] and I thought having no debt or nothing, I'd be fine with the car payment, but with the rent and now the car payment, I just want it all gone.

[1186] I love it.

[1187] They swear by us and you swear at us.

[1188] Right.

[1189] But we're with you, brother, Mike.

[1190] We got you.

[1191] So what's the car worth?

[1192] If you look to sell it privately, what would you get for it?

[1193] I was looking, since it was so brand new, I was, it actually didn't give me a value on Kelly Bluebook, but I could probably get around, I'd say around 32, 33.

[1194] Okay, so you think you could sell it for what you owe on it.

[1195] Yeah, but the thing is, I want to get another card just used, and I don't know how much I'm going to put towards that.

[1196] All of it, 100%.

[1197] Don't buy another car without cash, brother.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] So, okay, so.

[1200] Hold on.

[1201] Yeah, but you're going to end up in the same spot.

[1202] No, I don't want to buy another car and go totally in debt.

[1203] I want to buy a cash, but you want more than $2 ,000 worth a car.

[1204] No, I'm fine with, like, what can I get for $2 ,000?

[1205] Well, something that's embarrassing, that no one would want to date, and that we'll get you from A to Z. Well, I think you can get more than a $2 ,000 car.

[1206] Let's look at it.

[1207] Let's see, it's February.

[1208] We're midway through February.

[1209] Let's say that you decide you're going to put this car up for sale.

[1210] It's going to take a while for it to sell.

[1211] So let's pretend like you got four weeks in front of you.

[1212] How much margin can you, how much money can you scrape up in the next four weeks?

[1213] I guess scrape up a good amount.

[1214] I'm actually getting a bonus for work, an extra $500 on a paycheck.

[1215] Okay.

[1216] And you live at home, right?

[1217] I'm renting currently.

[1218] Oh, you're renting.

[1219] Okay.

[1220] So how much could you scrape up?

[1221] Could you scrape up $2 ,000?

[1222] Yeah, I can definitely.

[1223] we scrape up two thousand bucks within the four weeks can you scrape up three thousand um sell that guitar you don't even play anymore i'm gonna keep going higher can we scrape up four i was i was looking to try and scrape up another two or three thousand um pushing to four that's what i would do that's exactly what you do keep a thousand dollars saved don't spend your emergency fund but take that you know you've got two k saved keep one aside and then take that one and put it with the three or four that you can scrape up and buy yourself a four or five thousand dollar car sell this one and you're out of it and then scrape up another four or five thousand dollars and in a couple of months put it you know sell the used car you just bought and get yourself a ten thousand dollar car because it's not going to lose any more about you yeah now do i take the hit and sell it quicker and like take a cut on it or do i wait a little while on the car you're like sell it for less no no no no You shouldn't have to take a hit.

[1224] I mean, it's fairly, you've only had it three months.

[1225] I put it on the market as soon as you can.

[1226] Like I said, I wouldn't sell it back to the dealer.

[1227] I would do private sale.

[1228] Because if you take it to the dealer, they're going to take you for a ride.

[1229] Yeah, I don't want to do that.

[1230] Yeah, sell it private sale.

[1231] And then you'll get what you paid for it.

[1232] And like you said, maybe you'll get a thousand bucks more.

[1233] But I would definitely do that.

[1234] And by the way, you're going to get desperate.

[1235] and you're going to go to talk to a dealer even though jade said not to and they're going to convince you to roll equity into something else please don't do that because if you do if you do that just email us because you'll be calling us back in a few months wanting to shoot the other foot no no I definitely don't want to do it I'm got to go outside and take pictures of it unless they're right now listed that's what we're doing you're getting off the call you're listing that at the end of the month you're buying yourself a $5 ,000 car and then in a couple months like I said you're going to scrape up that same four or five thousand dollars put it with your used vehicle traded in and trade up and that's how this thing works i i talked about this uh a couple weekends ago john because you know people hear us on the show all the time say oh just buy a car and cash and there's a reality there of if you've never done that before it feels really intimidating and because you're coming from a world where you're used to going to the dealership and buying a 25 000 car a 30 000 car 35 000 car when people hear us say oh From now on buy cars and cash, they're thinking that we're just suggesting that you just hop on down to the, you know, dealer and you've got $30 ,000 cash in your pocket and you just fork it over.

[1236] For some people, that's the reality.

[1237] But for most of us, that doesn't happen until a couple of steps up the ladder.

[1238] You know what I'm saying?

[1239] So what it really looks like is exactly what we saw in this call.

[1240] It looks like you starting out with a car that you're probably a little bit embarrassed about, right?

[1241] It's that $5 ,000 beater.

[1242] And the thing about when you buy, and people get all nervous and up in arms about used cars.

[1243] But I'm like, guys, all cars require maintenance.

[1244] All right.

[1245] So do your research.

[1246] Make sure you're getting one that hasn't been in a thousand wrecks, right?

[1247] They tell you everything about the car nowadays.

[1248] So do your research, get your car.

[1249] And just understand when you buy a beater like that, it's already taken the huge appreciation, depreciation hit.

[1250] Right.

[1251] It's already gone down like a rock.

[1252] And if you're only planning to hold on to it, for a little while.

[1253] And so when you go to sell it again and add money with it to trade up, it's going to retain most of its value.

[1254] It's not going to completely, you know, be worth zero.

[1255] And so you walk this thing, it's like a ladder and you go run by run.

[1256] You start with a $10 ,000 car and you add $2 ,000 to it or $3 ,000 and you go little by little.

[1257] And maybe one time you're able to add $5 ,000 to it.

[1258] But when you don't have a car payment, it makes it a lot easier to save up that money because most people's car payments are $650 a month which means in two months you could have $1 ,300.

[1259] Wow.

[1260] So you see how quickly this can happen.

[1261] In six months, that's $8 ,000 or more that you can add.

[1262] That's fast, guys.

[1263] That's how this thing works.

[1264] And you do it little by little and before you know it, you do have a $30 ,000 car that you paid for in cash.

[1265] That's how this thing works and that's how you do it.

[1266] I'm in.

[1267] John ain't got nothing say he's like yeah jade that's how you do it clap it up hands in the middle on three cash cars on three one two three cash cars this is the ramsie show this is the ramsie show i'm your host jade warshaw your other host today is dr john deloney host of the amazing youtube show the doctor john deloney show let me say it right john geez oh my goodness so if you haven't checked out his youtube show be sure to check it out because it's going off uh let's talk about this a ramsie show question of the day Your Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services.

[1268] Window Genie is a neighborly brand that does more than just windows.

[1269] This time of year, they also take care of clogged gutters, which can damage your roof, windows, eaves, and more.

[1270] Find a window genie location near you at neighborly .com slash Ramsey.

[1271] All right, today's question comes from Stephanie in Arizona.

[1272] Stephanie writes, My husband recently admitted to me that he is a gambling addiction.

[1273] He has $300 ,000 in debt, has been stealing from our savings accounts, cleared out as 401, has not been paying the bills, etc. How do we even begin cleaning up this mess?

[1274] Oh, man. Wow.

[1275] We just had a call like that a couple hours back.

[1276] All right, so I'm going to really bullet point this and then hop in Jade.

[1277] We can get to the money part of it.

[1278] I think it's important, there's two sides of this.

[1279] Number one is the trauma to your marriage.

[1280] The marriage, as you knew it, is over.

[1281] The person you knew has revealed themselves.

[1282] And so trying to, quote unquote, get back to the way things were, that's a fool's errand.

[1283] If you stay married and you choose to work through this financial infidelity, then we're going to build a new marriage.

[1284] That's number one.

[1285] you're going to feel like you've been on a boat all day and then you get back on dry land and everything feels wobbly and off that's what it's going to feel like because everything that you have every way you've lived is different now because the person who was your ride or die who stood before your friends and family and God and said, I do forever stole everything from you and has dug a hole for the family that's going to be pretty significant so that's number one number two and by the way to deal with that I would get a couple of friends I would get a counselor.

[1286] I would get a journal that I write in every day.

[1287] You're going to feel rage.

[1288] You're going to feel weepy.

[1289] You're going to feel anger.

[1290] You're going to feel like frustrated.

[1291] Write that crap down and get out of your body.

[1292] Number two is your four walls.

[1293] You have to make sure your bills are paid and that you have a home that you have shelter.

[1294] You got food.

[1295] You got transportation.

[1296] You're going to have to take care of the basics.

[1297] You're going to have all kind of debtors and credit card people calling you.

[1298] The first thing you get is make sure you got a house.

[1299] Make sure you got food.

[1300] make sure your kids are safe okay uh make sure you can get to work and back and paying the bills that means you're going to have to go in and see who does the water who does the electric who does where's our rent or our mortgage and dig into all those and make a plan and start paying those things if you can't well that's a whole other conversation call us on that one um the third one is um hopefully your husband is in rehab of some sort some sort of um gamblers anonymous some sort of 30 day, 60 day, 90 day, inpatient treatment.

[1301] This is a big 300 grand in debt plus stealing from your future white pen on 401.

[1302] This is a bad problem and he needs to go get professional help.

[1303] When he gets out, then y 'all are going to begin to create something new.

[1304] But as we mentioned earlier, 90 days, 120 days, you are keeping the money in your account.

[1305] He doesn't have access to the money, doesn't have access to the bills.

[1306] But I thought we were built.

[1307] Nope, he's got to rebuild trust from Lego 1, square one.

[1308] And so we're going to create a world where Stephanie's in charge of the money for a while until there's some healing that's happened.

[1309] There's a new marriage being built and Stephanie, you begin to regain trust.

[1310] And this is going to take years and years to heal from.

[1311] That was a lot.

[1312] I just kind of threw it all up here.

[1313] No, I support that message.

[1314] I'm not going to add anything else to it because I think that's right on, John.

[1315] It's dark, man. It is dark.

[1316] That's tough.

[1317] That is so, so, so tough.

[1318] Ooh, I'm sorry that you're going through that, Stephanie, but I think John gave you a great pathway to move forward, and it's not going to be easy, but at least you know the steps to take.

[1319] Oh, after that, let's go to the phone lines.

[1320] Listen, I got a segue right out of it because there's no...

[1321] I feel like we'd sing a song together or something.

[1322] There's no clean.

[1323] Koonbaia.

[1324] There's no...

[1325] All right, let's go to Cody and Reno.

[1326] Nevada.

[1327] Cody, you're up next.

[1328] What's going on, buddy?

[1329] Hey, how are you guys doing?

[1330] Doing good.

[1331] How can we help?

[1332] Good.

[1333] So right now I'm kind of in a pickle of deciding if me and my wife should continue staying and renting in our apartment or if we should start trying to look towards buying a home right now.

[1334] Okay.

[1335] Tell us more.

[1336] Yeah, so right now between me and her, we make about $120 ,000 a year plus maybe $10 ,000 a year and bonuses.

[1337] Okay.

[1338] Our rent right now is $12 .50 a month.

[1339] And each month that we're renting, we're able to put $3 ,000, in our savings.

[1340] We've currently got $41 ,000 saved right now, and we take home about $7 ,500 a month after all of our taxes and stuff.

[1341] Okay.

[1342] So you're trying to decide, do we buy, do we rent, what do we do here?

[1343] So you're taking home $7 ,500 a month in income.

[1344] You've got $41 ,000 saved, and you've got your rent at a level to where you're still able to kind of sock away $3 ,000 in savings.

[1345] Did I get that?

[1346] Mm -hmm.

[1347] That's good.

[1348] great.

[1349] So what's keeping you?

[1350] Do you have any other debt?

[1351] Tell me, do you have debt?

[1352] So the only debt we have is 20 ,000 in student loans, and she's a speech pathologist, where she's working at a low -income school that is paying off part of her loans after she's been working there for five years.

[1353] Okay, how paying off part of her student loans?

[1354] I think it's about 10 to 15 ,000 of it is what they'll pay off, and she owes about 20.

[1355] Okay.

[1356] Is it, is it the, Is it the school doing it or is it the government doing it?

[1357] I'm not 100 % sure if it's the school or if it's the county that we're in.

[1358] And that's kind of offering that because she's working out a lower income school.

[1359] I want to make sure you write down the math on this.

[1360] If she has a service orientation towards low income, awesome.

[1361] That's fantastic.

[1362] And I'll support that until the end of time.

[1363] It's going to come at a cost to your family.

[1364] And that cost is absolutely worth it sometimes.

[1365] That's what your mission is.

[1366] But if she's making $40 ,000 at school X and they promise to pay off $10 ,000 of her loans, but she can go work private and make $75 ,000, this is not a deal for your family.

[1367] Thank you, John.

[1368] Okay?

[1369] I want you all to sit down and do the math.

[1370] And it might be, which is almost often the case, if you chain yourself to student loans, you are forcing yourself to put your mission second.

[1371] and honor the bank's commitment first.

[1372] We hear it all the time from people who want to do ministry.

[1373] They spend six figures on theology school or whatever.

[1374] Cool, you got to go get a job.

[1375] And then, after you pay off your debts, then you can go do your ministry.

[1376] Same with mental health professionals, similar to speech pathologists who want to work in a low -income area.

[1377] The mission's amazing.

[1378] It's beautiful.

[1379] It's essential.

[1380] And if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

[1381] how many years in is she um she's on her second right now okay i'm with john 100 % on that a personal preference as well where she wouldn't want to go into the private sector and like i got that but she might have to she might have to do something she doesn't prefer for 18 months or 24 months so that her whole family can be safe if i'm if i'm her what i'm going to go to that that school i'm going to say listen can you just reimburse me because i'd like to pay this off i don't want this hanging around my neck.

[1382] If I show you the, if I keep record of all my payments, will you reimburse me when it's after the five years so that I can just go ahead and pay this off?

[1383] That's the deal that I would make.

[1384] Because there's no sense in you having to make payments or having to have this around your neck.

[1385] You guys can afford to pay it off today.

[1386] And that's what I would say to them.

[1387] And if for some reason they're like, no, or that's weird, that's not a deal that I want to do because it's either five, you know, it's either 15 ,000 or it's not.

[1388] It either is or it isn't.

[1389] Whether they write you a check, it's the same check that they're cutting.

[1390] So you having to keep it around, should it matter?

[1391] It's who's making the payment or not.

[1392] Does that make sense?

[1393] Although sometimes, you know, sometimes logic goes out the window.

[1394] You know, when you get a mission.

[1395] Well, here's another thing.

[1396] If y 'all can just pay, and people are going to give me all kind of grief, I don't care.

[1397] If you can afford it, pay it off.

[1398] And they have a special program that if you want to keep debt strapped around your neck, or that's all you can do to hang on so you can keep working at this school and taking care of those kids.

[1399] Cool, that program is not for us because we got the money.

[1400] We're just going to pay it off.

[1401] And we're going to move on with their life.

[1402] I like Jade.

[1403] If they'll write you a reimbursement check, that'd be amazing.

[1404] Yeah.

[1405] But yeah, get rid of the debt either way.

[1406] And by the way, when you buy this house, when the time comes, make sure you've got three to six months saved first, and then you're buying it on a 15 -year fixed -rate mortgage where the payment's no more than 25 % of your take -home pay.

[1407] That's the deal.

[1408] You are listening to The Ramsey Show, and I'm so glad that you're here.

[1409] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[1410] This is Dr. John Deloney to my right, or if you're listening, the other voice that you hear is Dr. John Delonies.

[1411] And I want to tell you guys about a brand new event that we're so excited for.

[1412] It's coming up here in the spring.

[1413] It is a total money makeover weekend event.

[1414] It's a whole weekend.

[1415] May 10th and 11th, and it's here in Nashville, Music City, and we have a really cool event venue.

[1416] We call it the wreck.

[1417] it's up on our property on the hill when i say our property i'm talking like like i've owned the place it's d money's property yeah the big eagle it's his property but it's on property it's right up the hill and it's an amazing state of the art theater i'm not call it a theater what would you call it's a it's a 2 ,500 seat theater but it's a it's a masterpiece it's really cool it's awesome and so we're doing the total money makeover a weekend there it's a three -day event you can go to ramsysysolutions dot com slash events to look at tickets but man it's everything that you need if you've been listening to this show whether you've been listening for 10 years or 10 minutes it is for you because you hear us all the time walk through the baby steps we're always talking about oh and baby step one do this and all the way up to baby step seven and it really is that we're going to go through all of those baby steps there's something there for everybody no matter where you are in your journey um this is going to be for you it's going to be that rally to keep you going forward you're going to be around like -minded people.

[1418] You're going to leave feeling so good and you're going to be so excited.

[1419] You're just going to want to run through walls and, you know, tear your shirt like Usher.

[1420] You're going to be so excited.

[1421] So I want you to be there.

[1422] We're going to do Q &As live throughout the weekend.

[1423] It's going to be so, so fun, very different from any of the other Ramsey events you've attended.

[1424] So make sure to get your tickets.

[1425] Early bird tickets start at $99.

[1426] That's only for unlimited time, though.

[1427] So get them now because those are going to sell out super fast.

[1428] Like John said, the Ramsey Event Center holds 2 ,400 people, so seats are limited.

[1429] And you don't want to wait to get those tickets.

[1430] So get them now.

[1431] Go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash events, John.

[1432] All right.

[1433] Let's do this.

[1434] It's going to be a hoot, man. I love doing events up there.

[1435] Let's go to Brian.

[1436] He's in Midland, Texas.

[1437] That's my neck of the woods.

[1438] What's up, Brian?

[1439] Hey, how are you doing?

[1440] All right, man. What's up?

[1441] So I guess my question is, so I had a late start to my adult life, if you will, because I turned 30 in prison.

[1442] Okay.

[1443] So I've been, you know, just really focusing on working and, you know, building a career and whatnot.

[1444] Good for you, man. How long have you been out?

[1445] 13 years now.

[1446] Okay, so you're 43, mid -40s?

[1447] Yes, sir.

[1448] Okay, excellent.

[1449] Been working hard, staying at trouble?

[1450] Yes, sir.

[1451] All right, I'm proud of you, man. I want to do that again.

[1452] Good for you.

[1453] That's a hard, that's hard road when you get out.

[1454] So good for you, man. I'm proud of you.

[1455] What's up?

[1456] Appreciate it.

[1457] Well, I feel like I just keep getting caught into a lot of the same tracts as probably most of the people that call in.

[1458] You know, over the course, since getting out and all that, I put together a good career.

[1459] I make pretty good money.

[1460] But I have an expensive life, and it's not so much a lifestyle.

[1461] It's, I think it comes with the career I have and the job I have because I work out here in Midland, but I live in Virginia.

[1462] And I have kids in Oklahoma.

[1463] So there's a lot of travel that, you know, in order to fulfill all ends of the duties, you know, I spend a lot on travel and I have responsibilities in terms of child support and whatnot.

[1464] I want to change some of your language.

[1465] Is that cool?

[1466] What's that?

[1467] I want to change some of your language before we get going.

[1468] Is that cool?

[1469] Yeah, and the whole conversation we're going to have me, you and Jade, I want you to like picture.

[1470] we're sitting there at roses in Midland and I ordered several things a case and it's just three bodies hanging out okay so this isn't me getting on to you it's me sitting with you okay yeah no I understand all right okay I don't ever want you to say I got caught in a trap again I don't ever want you to say I've just found myself in this life I want you and you've been doing this for 13 years I want you to stand up as tall as you can as the as a part -time Texan you are and I want you to say I am taking full ownership of the chaos that has become my life.

[1471] Okay?

[1472] Yep, I can do that.

[1473] That I can do.

[1474] Excellent.

[1475] And so, once we take full ownership, we don't fall into traps anymore.

[1476] I don't buy stupid stuff.

[1477] I don't have houses all over the country.

[1478] I do what I have to do and then we go from there.

[1479] Is that a good place to start?

[1480] Yeah, fair enough.

[1481] Tell me about this house like you live in Virginia but you work in Midland.

[1482] Okay.

[1483] So we rent out there.

[1484] To be honest, up until...

[1485] Out where?

[1486] Up in Virginia.

[1487] What's in Virginia?

[1488] Girlfriend, I guess, if you will.

[1489] So you're going to Virginia just to see your girlfriend?

[1490] I mean, I only go every few months.

[1491] But you're renting a house there?

[1492] Well, the house in Texas is provided through work.

[1493] Why don't you live there?

[1494] And just visit Virginia every few years.

[1495] I mean, every few months.

[1496] Um, no, that is what I do.

[1497] I do basically live in Texas, but it, uh, it gives me a, like a residence, if you will, because I can't claim the work address as a residence.

[1498] But let me ask a clarifying question.

[1499] You said, we rent up in Virginia.

[1500] Who's paid, girlfriend and I, we share the house.

[1501] Okay, and you're splitting the rent.

[1502] Yes.

[1503] Does she live with you in Midland when you're in Midland?

[1504] No, because her career is based over in Virginia.

[1505] So basically, she's got.

[1506] most of her rent subsidized by a dude who only comes home every few months.

[1507] Yeah, unfortunately, that is the case.

[1508] That's not unfortunate.

[1509] That's the deal you set up, but she is, she's getting the better end of that deal, my brother.

[1510] Yeah, I don't like that for you.

[1511] No, I agree on that one.

[1512] I don't think you're wrong on that one.

[1513] Okay.

[1514] What you need, you have a home and you have a work home.

[1515] Yeah, why can't you claim it?

[1516] In Virginia.

[1517] Because it doesn't have a, like, a federal address.

[1518] Get a P .O. box in Midland.

[1519] I mean, I guess I could, but does that...

[1520] You have a home?

[1521] Maybe I don't understand how all this works, right?

[1522] I didn't know if you could put that on a driver's license or, you know, any of that stuff.

[1523] Like, don't you have to have a resident?

[1524] Where are you living?

[1525] Are you in a trailer park because you're out in the field?

[1526] I mean, it's a man camp for the most part.

[1527] Okay, but you're living out of the field?

[1528] Yes.

[1529] You would be better off financially?

[1530] Okay.

[1531] And psychologically and spiritually.

[1532] if you rented a one -bedroom apartment in Midland also.

[1533] And then once every few months, if you want to go visit your girlfriend in Virginia, you could go visit her at her place, or you could get a VRBO and save yourself a trillion dollars.

[1534] No, I mean, you're not wrong.

[1535] Catch me up.

[1536] What's a man camp?

[1537] A man camp is like when they're working out.

[1538] When they put workers.

[1539] Yeah, they're working out in the oil fields.

[1540] Got it.

[1541] Okay, got it.

[1542] They'll have a whole bunch of either small houses or trailer houses.

[1543] And how long did it?

[1544] Yeah, they're trailer houses.

[1545] And you stay in there for how long, how long are the stints there versus where you could live elsewhere?

[1546] I do 20 days on 10 days off.

[1547] 20 days on 10 days off.

[1548] Okay.

[1549] Yeah.

[1550] Yeah, I'm with John.

[1551] And I just think the girlfriend thing, you having a rent that far away, she just needs to have her own place to live.

[1552] And if you come visit, you stay with her.

[1553] If she goes to visit you, Midland is beautiful.

[1554] It's not.

[1555] It's not.

[1556] It's not.

[1557] It's not for sure.

[1558] Okay.

[1559] So that's thing one.

[1560] Like, let's rectify that because that's a lot of money going out the door where you could be, like John said, getting yourself a one bedroom or a studio place in Midland that serves you better.

[1561] And, you know, that's your time.

[1562] I don't like saying man camp, but that's like your time away from the man camp.

[1563] All right.

[1564] That's thing one.

[1565] Let's talk about Oklahoma City.

[1566] Is that where your kids are?

[1567] It is, correct.

[1568] And how often are you going there?

[1569] I go there one weekend of Monday.

[1570] I get them during that 10 days off, I go up there and see them at least once.

[1571] I would love for you to have a small house that you're buying equity into in Oklahoma.

[1572] That's where it needs to be.

[1573] Yeah.

[1574] I think it's time to cut girlfriend loose or if girlfriend wants to move across the country, that's cool.

[1575] But you're a dad and your kids have lost a big chunk of their life with their dad.

[1576] And I want them when they're 25 to see, dude, my dad, A, turned it around, B, worked so hard out in that hot Texas sun or this weekend that crazy freezing Texas winter and then he came to see us as often as he could.

[1577] But brother, you're making too much money in an organization.

[1578] I mean, it will roll over when gas prices, when oil prices drop, they're going to cut everybody.

[1579] And so it goes up and down and up and down.

[1580] But you're making too much money to be splitting it across the country like this.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] We didn't get to find out more information from you, but we're going to get you hooked up with Financial Peace University so you can walk through, figure out how to pay out this thousand dollars of debt that you have and how to best optimize your income and your time so austin's going to pick up and make sure that you are set up with financial peace university and every dollar this is the ramsie show all right you're listening to the radio show the ramsie show which is also on podcast in youtube listen i don't know what comes out of my mouth sometimes john you're listening to the radio show i'm jane warshaw that is dr john deloney keeping me in check man he needs to your scripture and quote of the day if your enemy is hungry give him food to eat if he is thirsty give him water to drink that's proverbs 25 21 and then paul stanley from kiss says this charity is not an option it's an obligation all right paul he feels he feels strongly about that i'll go along that's one of my favorite proverbs in the whole wide world yeah yep if your enemy let's read it again if your enemy is hungry give him food to eat if he is thirsty give him water to drink.

[1583] I like that.

[1584] Hate has never solved a single problem.

[1585] That's a word.

[1586] In the history of humankind.

[1587] It's never solved a problem.

[1588] No. Never solved a problem.

[1589] Only love can do that.

[1590] Never solved a problem.

[1591] We're being very philosophical.

[1592] One day.

[1593] We're going to figure that out.

[1594] We will.

[1595] Let's go to Josh.

[1596] He might have some answers in Cincinnati, Ohio.

[1597] What's going on, Josh?

[1598] I think you guys are taking my call today.

[1599] I appreciate it.

[1600] You bet.

[1601] So I am, a recent college grad, and I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to pay off some of these loans.

[1602] So they're all federal, and I owe about $24 ,000 in federal debt.

[1603] Okay.

[1604] So right now, like, the options I have are the safe plan through the Biden administration.

[1605] Okay.

[1606] And it's all, you know, it's income -based.

[1607] So they're going off with my previous year income, which is about $35, $36 ,000.

[1608] What's this year's income?

[1609] However, this year's income has gone up to about 60.

[1610] So it's like 10 % of your income.

[1611] So currently I'm paying $30 a month until January of next year.

[1612] And then they would reevaluate what my income is.

[1613] Okay.

[1614] So I'm just kind of wanting to know, like, what are your thoughts on this?

[1615] Is this the best way to go about it?

[1616] Is there other ways?

[1617] You know, I'm trying to work the baby steps.

[1618] And I have step one done and step two is obviously paying off debt.

[1619] Is this your only debt?

[1620] That's my only debt.

[1621] debt.

[1622] In your situation, because it's your only debt, I wouldn't do it.

[1623] I would just, I, because the only purpose that I would use, and I've gone on this soapbox before, so I won't get too deeply into it.

[1624] But the only way that I would go on a plan like this is if you had, if you were like, Jade, I've got a lot of debt.

[1625] And you listed all the different ones, credit cards and personal loans and cars and student loans and houses.

[1626] I would say, okay, because when you get out of debt, what you're ultimately doing is you're listing all of your debts smallest to largest.

[1627] And the goal is, to pay minimum payments on everything and then have a bunch of money left to throw at the smallest debt.

[1628] And so when you're making minimum payments, yeah, you want those minimum payments to be small.

[1629] So if that were you and you had a bunch of other debts, and I would say, yeah, go on the save plan temporarily so you can have a smaller minimum payment, so you can have more money to sock away at that smallest debt.

[1630] But in your case, this is your only debt.

[1631] So you're in the mode where you're soaking all the money that you can at this debt.

[1632] The goal isn't to pay less.

[1633] In your case, the goal is to pay as much as you possibly can.

[1634] So if you're making $60 ,000 this year, or if you're on track to make $60 ,000, I'm looking at that and I'm going, okay, this guy, are you single?

[1635] Yeah.

[1636] Are you, what's your living situation?

[1637] I currently, Ryan, I have free roommates.

[1638] So that's kind of another part of my thing.

[1639] You know, eventually within the next year or two, I would like to purchase a house.

[1640] Well, we can't get to that yet.

[1641] We got to go in order.

[1642] So with the baby steps, you know, this is all fitting together in a nice tapestry.

[1643] So we want to do it, you know, the right way at the right time.

[1644] So if I'm you, I'm going, okay, I'm going to make $60 ,000 this month.

[1645] Can I find a way to make 15 more so that I'm at 85 or 75, I'm sorry?

[1646] And then can I pay off 24 ,000 in a year?

[1647] I think yes.

[1648] I think you pick up a side hustle where you make in a little bit more.

[1649] And I think that you knock this out in 12 months.

[1650] and then so I'm kind of working these steps a little funny because I have been with my company now for three years I just recently you know since graduating I got a new job within the company so I've already been investing into my 401k I'm at 13 % with them matching five is that something you would recommend I would where to get some of that money back into my bank account I want you to be able to invest but I want you to invest in the right way because what happens here if you go your route Everybody thinks the baby steps or the plan that we have is just kind of this, this idea.

[1651] But the fact of the matter is there's a method to it.

[1652] And if you don't do it in the right order, you can actually end up screwing yourself pretty bad.

[1653] So because what happens is you, you're investing in that match and you're doing great.

[1654] But if you don't have money saved for an emergency and you buy a house, what happens is your 401K becomes your emergency fund.

[1655] And before you know, you're dipping into your 401K.

[1656] So there's some things there that are holding you back.

[1657] also if you're investing that percentage that's money that you could be using to pay off this $24 ,000 of debt because what I want what I want to get your brain thinking is that math math is math whether we like it or not so if you save $24 ,000 in your 401k but you owe the federal government government $24 ,000 you're at zero that money is not yours you tell yourself it's yours, but it's not really yours.

[1658] Can you do a fun thought experiment with me, Josh?

[1659] Sure.

[1660] It's 2024.

[1661] What's going to happen this year?

[1662] An election year.

[1663] Yeah.

[1664] And we don't know who's going to get elected.

[1665] We don't know.

[1666] We don't know anything.

[1667] And we especially don't know the people who are running what their platforms even are.

[1668] What things they're.

[1669] even want to do?

[1670] And so fast forward to December 31st of 2024.

[1671] We'll have some sort of answer, sort of.

[1672] Maybe.

[1673] Who knows?

[1674] Would you rather be sitting on December 31st with your fingers crossed hoping that the federal government which by the way has done a real bang up job the past 50 years of keeping his promises and doing math problems well?

[1675] that they are going to continue whatever plan you've signed up for?

[1676] Or would you rather be sitting on December 31st owing, like doing what Jade just said, work your job and then go put in some good podcast and Uber all through the out of the evening?

[1677] And then on Saturdays go Uber again.

[1678] And Sundays Uber again.

[1679] And you wake up in December 31st and you don't owe anybody anything.

[1680] and then when things get chaotic and hectic you go whew at least I'm off the hook and I'm not chained anything which one of those feels like it's going to feel better definitely the one where I don't owe anyone anything bro I would I would triple down I would do exactly what Jade said I would make December 31st this maniacal I will owe nobody anything by December 21st December 31st my family I'm going to send all handmade cards for Christmas.

[1681] Friends, we're going to do nothing this year.

[1682] That's right.

[1683] And we are going to be free come December 31st.

[1684] And then whoever gets elected and whatever's on fire at that point, we'll be able to handle that knowing that we're not going to go down with the ship.

[1685] Yeah, I like that.

[1686] Josh, how much money do you have saved?

[1687] I have about $3 ,000 plus about $20 ,000 in my 401.

[1688] Okay.

[1689] So we're going to drop.

[1690] We're going to walk the baby steps.

[1691] Let's commit to walking.

[1692] Let's commit to the process and know that this is the plan.

[1693] Like there's some piece that you have in walking a plan.

[1694] When you walk a plan, suddenly all of the answers are answered for you.

[1695] That's one of the benefits of choosing a plan and saying, okay, I'm going to do that one.

[1696] Because then when you have these questions of should I invest yet, the plan tells you, should I pay off my debt first?

[1697] The plan tells you.

[1698] And as long as you walk the plan you can rest in knowing okay I'm do I'm doing things right I'm going in this direction it's worked for millions of people including the woman that you're talking to online right now so I can tell you that it works right so that's what I want you to do I want you to take two thousand dollars of the money that you have saved and I want you to start putting it towards this debt now you have 22 ,000 dollars of student loan debt and I want you to get crazy and pay this off you're going to have it done so quickly then you're going to save up three to six months of expenses then you're going to start saving for that down payment on a house.

[1699] But you don't need to worry about, you know, you don't have to do all this at once.

[1700] You know, you just graduated for heaven's sake.

[1701] You're doing right.

[1702] You got a house with two roommates.

[1703] You know, you didn't pull out a lot of student loan debt.

[1704] I'm glad that you didn't.

[1705] So let's just take our time and walk down that road.

[1706] And my guess is that in two and a half years, you're going to be a homeowner and it's going to be pretty, pretty good.

[1707] Choose freedom.

[1708] My brother, choose freedom.

[1709] Choose freedom.

[1710] I love it.

[1711] Thanks for hanging out with us for a couple hours here on the Ramsey show.

[1712] We love that you were here.

[1713] We're glad that we were able to take some of your calls.

[1714] We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll see you back here next time.

[1715] Hey, folks, Dave here.

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