The History of WWII Podcast XX
[0] Welcome to True Spies, the podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.
[1] Suddenly out of the dark, it's a bit in love.
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[3] What do they know?
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[5] And what would you do in their position?
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[45] Hello, and thank you for listening to A History of World War II, Episode 34, Armistice.
[46] By June 18th, as each hour went by, Churchill and his war cabinet had less time to be angry at the French.
[47] That anger or disappointment was being pushed aside by the growing apprehension about the French fleet.
[48] Churchill's character was one for always looking for a way to strike a superior foe, while simultaneously preparing himself for the overpowering assault coming his way.
[49] This meant keeping his options open, and that meant controlling the Mediterranean Sea, the English Channel, and the sea lanes in the Atlantic between his island and the American East Coast.
[50] The reports coming back to the British Prime Minister from various sources all held bad tidings for his people.
[51] The French could not be nailed down on what they intended to do with their fleet.
[52] Most assuredly, it was not on its way to British or neutral ports, and really, that's all that mattered.
[53] The fleet was not moving, in France's possession, and France, in some form or another, was about to be in Germany's possession.
[54] Churchill could not take the strain of unknowing any longer.
[55] If he had had a crystal ball, he would have looked into the heart of the new French government.
[56] Meanwhile, the Bétain regime would have given much to borrow that crystal ball and to know what the Germans were thinking.
[57] Unable to take the pressure anymore himself, Bétain called the Spanish ambassador de la Cuetica at 10 .30 a .m. on the morning of the 18th to see if there was any word from the Germans.
[58] Retreating French troops were only three days away on foot from Bordeaux, and it was assumed the Germans were right behind them.
[59] Having the Germans so close, Bétain wanted to get the negotiations underway, or at the very least, to have an understanding with the Germans.
[60] If the Wehrmacht captured Bordeaux and the government, negotiations would then not be needed.
[61] Also, Bétain had to combat, at least verbally, those who were still most anxious to leave for Africa as the Germans came towards them.
[62] By 5 p .m. of that day, the presidents of the two chambers were also buckling under the weight of anticipation and met with Lebrun and Pétain.
[63] They wanted the government to move.
[64] They thought it managed to remain while the Germans continued pushing into France.
[65] And due to Pétain's radio message to stop fighting, the Germans were moving even faster.
[66] Pétain replied again he would not leave France.
[67] Was this his attempt to completely shut down the process of anyone moving to Africa?
[68] Possibly, but common sense and fear drove the ministers to push the issue.
[69] So a compromise was worked out.
[70] Pétain, Vingard, and a few ministers would stay.
[71] President Lebrun and the two chamber heads and the rest of the cabinet would depart.
[72] Pétain would delegate his powers to Vice Premier Chautam, who would also be making the journey.
[73] Pétain, who couldn't reasonably argue his side, reluctantly agreed.
[74] But others serving Pétain, or rather serving their own agendas and using Pétain, would make sure the government never made it to Africa.
[75] Churchill's tension came down to not knowing the minds of the French, or if they even knew their own minds, concerning their fleet.
[76] But Churchill made decisions.
[77] He didn't simply just wait.
[78] He had already decided to send that day a delegation to the French government to discuss their fleet.
[79] The French simply had to understand, and Churchill believed they did not, the importance to Britain's entire security position in regards to the powerful French ships.
[80] So shortly after noon on June 18th, Churchill's delegation of two admirals and one cabinet minister arrived in Bordeaux to talk with the new rulers of France.
[81] has to be honest about the British reporting, as unflattering as it is.
[82] But that honesty should also mention their views had to be influenced by their current emotional state regarding the French.
[83] They found Pétain vain, senile, and dangerously gaga.
[84] Their words.
[85] Végan was described as a crumpled, broken little man, and Le Bras, tearful as usual and quite futile.
[86] Again, their words.
[87] Darlan did not fare any better, but he seemed to still have enough fight in him to conjure up the anger needed to wage war against the British.
[88] Starting that day of the meeting, and for days afterwards, Darlan issued orders for all French ships and British ports, especially Plymouth and Portsmouth, to leave right away.
[89] But the British refused to let them leave.
[90] The partnership was reaching the breaking point, and today's meeting provided no new insight for Churchill.
[91] In fact, there was really only one Frenchman working to keep the alliance alive, and that was Charles de Gaulle.
[92] But as the head of the French resistance, with no body yet, or certainly no bodies following him, all he could do was watch and warn.
[93] He was 49 years old, and everything he had known was gone.
[94] At 6 p .m. that day, de Gaulle was about to speak via radio message to anyone who listened and wanted to continue the struggle against Germany.
[95] Unfortunately, very few people heard his first speech.
[96] Most French did not have electricity or consider it important to listen to the BBC as they would in the days ahead.
[97] As for the staff of the Broadcasting House, the HQ of the BBC, they were only given an hour's notice and told nothing about it, so they did not record it.
[98] But to follow this slip -up, the speech was barely mentioned in the British newspapers the following day.
[99] Not exactly the kind of start needed.
[100] to fire up those who still wanted to resist Germany.
[101] In part, it read, This war has not been decided by the Battle of France.
[102] This war is a world war.
[103] All our mistakes, all our delays, all our suffering, do not alter the fact that there is in this universe all the means needed to crush our enemies one day.
[104] The destiny of the world is there.
[105] Of the few that heard it, no one of rank or note.
[106] joined de Gaulle's cause.
[107] But this was de Gaulle.
[108] If anyone defined being self -possessed, it was this man. He wrote later of this time, Before the terrifying emptiness of general renouncement, my mission suddenly appeared to me, clear and terrible.
[109] At this moment, the worst in our history, it was up to me to assume that I was France.
[110] Certainly, the government in Bordeaux heard the broadcast and quickly attempted to crush it and its author.
[111] The soon -to -be Minister of Justice, Raphael Albert, issued a counter -broadcast that said de Gaulle had no right to speak for he was not part of the government.
[112] In fact, he was being ordered to Bordeaux to answer for himself.
[113] That same evening, General Colson, the new Minister of War, wired the French military attaché in London.
[114] to tell de Gaulle he must come home at once.
[115] But de Gaulle's course was set.
[116] Two days later, he replied, not to Albert or to the cabinet, but to General Weygand.
[117] His message said, I will return in 24 hours, if the armistice is not signed.
[118] He then begged Weygand and the government to fight back and to move to Africa, that de Gaulle would support him if he did.
[119] But later, there was no rush.
[120] de Gaulle's letter was returned with a note that said, If the retired Colonel de Gaulle wishes to communicate with General Vega, he must do it through regular channels.
[121] But then, to add injury to insult and give history a window into the minds of the French High Command, a court -martial was set up for General de Gaulle.
[122] Never mind the Germans or safeguarding the precious fleet, de Gaulle was found guilty and received a sentence of four years.
[123] But then, The crumpled, broken little Commander -in -Chief Vega had a military tribunal held, found de Gaulle guilty again, but this time, on August 2nd, was condemned to death in absentia.
[124] Georges Mandel, the former Minister of the Interior, fared a little better, but unfortunately was within reach.
[125] On the previous day, June 17th, while at lunch, Mandel had been arrested, and this had been less than 24 hours after giving up his office.
[126] The royalist Albert was responsible.
[127] A right -wing journalist accused Mandel of gathering arms to kill certain members of the government.
[128] Although unsubstantiated, Pétain signed the arrest order.
[129] Fortunately, President Lebrun intervened and Mandel and a general also arrested were released.
[130] Mandel went to Pétain and angrily complained.
[131] The marshal quickly wrote out an embarrassed apology.
[132] But within ten days, Mandel was arrested again.
[133] but this time was held for years and then given to Germany.
[134] The Germans, uncertain what to do with him and certainly preoccupied elsewhere, returned him to the militia of Pétain's government, who executed him on July 7, 1944.
[135] Pétain's letter of apology was found on his body.
[136] But Mandel was only the first of many.
[137] Eventually, Renaud, Deladier, Blum, General Gamla, and President Lebrun, were arbitrarily arrested by Patin and given to the Germans.
[138] While the French were sweating it out and enduring their own intrigues, Hitler and Mussolini talked.
[139] Or rather, Hitler talked and Mussolini listened and nodded his head.
[140] They sat down together with Hitler's interpreter in one of the many spacious and lavishly decorated rooms at the Führerhaus in Munich.
[141] where Chamberlain and Deladier had given Hitler a slice of Czechoslovakia less than two years before.
[142] Il Duce, not knowing Hitler's thoughts of the future, or of his needs based on that future, was demanding a lot, even after the poor showing of his men.
[143] Mussolini wanted all of France divided up between them, and maybe Spain, if she came in on their side.
[144] And of course, he wanted the French fleet.
[145] The Mediterranean would certainly belong to Italy if he could add their ships to his.
[146] Hitler started off by saying that he did not intend, for now, to destroy France or make it disappear like he had Czechoslovakia.
[147] The great hunt for Western European domination was still afoot.
[148] First, he had to completely detach France from Great Britain, which meant, for now, allowing a French government on some French soil.
[149] He feared that the French fleet might make for Britain.
[150] This would almost certainly prevent him from invading England, as he called it.
[151] He was also worried that the French government might head for North Africa or London.
[152] Either way, it would prolong this war of France, and Hitler didn't need that.
[153] If only he had his own crystal ball and could see into Pétain's heart, he would have not worried so much.
[154] The Nazi warlord went on to say that another thing he didn't need...
[155] was a giant unsettled country like France, next to Germany.
[156] All the previous governments had gone into exile and still officially opposed Nazi Germany.
[157] He didn't want France added to that list.
[158] Therefore, again, he had to give Pétain's government some part of France to administer.
[159] It was the only way.
[160] He needed a settlement.
[161] He needed a free hand.
[162] Hitler was not yet finished with his new world order.
[163] So the terms put to France had to be moderate, at least in his eyes.
[164] Therefore, with this explained to his Italian ally, Hitler had to regretfully shoo down all of Mussolini's requests for French land and concessions.
[165] He said no to Mussolini's desire to have the Rhone Valley, no to Toulon and its naval base, no to Marseille and its naval base, no to disarming Corsica, Tunisia, and Djibouti.
[166] Mussolini had to be asking himself, then why did I join Italy to Germany if not for the spoils of war?
[167] Wasn't that the whole point?
[168] Of course, Mussolini said none of this out loud.
[169] Italy's status, at least officially, was that of an ally.
[170] But Il Duce didn't really want to put that to the test.
[171] No, the only thing that mattered at this point was the French fleet.
[172] and Hitler assured his aggrieved partner that Britain would be putting great pressure on France to make sure the access did not get it.
[173] Then, in a moment of complete honesty, Hitler said the French government might not trust him, so his solution was to intern the fleet in a neutral country like Portugal or Spain, or for the fleet to scuttle itself.
[174] As the words came out of the Nazi warlord's mouth, They must have landed like heavy blows on the other, but not so great, man. His dreams of a great empire were fading fast.
[175] His ambition to have glory on the battlefield had been denied him by a few outmanned and barely equipped French divisions.
[176] Mussolini would have to look elsewhere for his new Roman empire, but that was for later.
[177] But the slap across the face that accompanied the many no's Mussolini heard that day was that Il Duce would not be asked to be present at the armistice talks with France.
[178] So Mussolini left Munich bitter, but Ciano, his foreign minister, left impressed with Hitler.
[179] He wrote in his diary that the German leader had won a big hand at the table and was content to gather it up and walk away, not wanting to see how much more he could get.
[180] But like so many others, he was fooled by the Chancellor of Nazi Germany.
[181] Welcome to True Spies.
[182] The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.
[183] Suddenly out of the dark it's appeared in love.
[184] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.
[185] What do they know?
[186] What are their skills?
[187] And what would you do in their position?
[188] Vengeance felt good.
[189] Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.
[190] True Spies from Spyscape Studios.
[191] Wherever you get your podcasts.
[192] Hitler would not even tell his friend the location of the armistice talks, but giving his visibly crushed partner something to hold on to, Hitler promised there would be no agreement with France until one was made with Italy.
[193] What Hitler left out was that he had already drawn up the 24 articles of his armistice with France, and there would be no changes during the negotiations.
[194] This Rome would not know for another three days.
[195] At 6 .25 a .m. on June 19th, Badeau was awakened by the Spanish ambassador.
[196] He had the German reply, or rather, a German reply.
[197] Germany was prepared to make known the conditions for the cessation of hostilities.
[198] Also, they would name the place when the French participants were made known to Germany.
[199] Another condition was that an armistice had to be reached with Italy first, but the French government brushed that last part aside.
[200] Their attitude was, just give the hungry, undeserved Italian clown something and be rid of him.
[201] As for the leader of Germany, that was different.
[202] Pétain and Weygand assumed, wrongly, that German pride would demand Alsace and Lorraine be made permanently German, and then they would have to pay some money.
[203] Then they reconsidered and decided Hitler would ask for more land than that.
[204] But still, for now, give him what he wanted, and then we could settle all of this.
[205] France would be able to go on with themselves as its new masters, and Germany could go on to attack and possibly invade and conquer their former ally.
[206] Still, now there was action to be taken by the Bataan government.
[207] First, they considered reaching a settlement with Italy, but there was a problem.
[208] Badeau had already tried to reach Rome through the Vatican, but no answer came back.
[209] Then it became clear that Hitler wanted the Holy See left out.
[210] It would have to be the Spanish.
[211] A cabinet meeting was convened at 9 a .m. in Petain's office.
[212] It was attended by Vegard, Darla, Badeau, Chautam, and Albert.
[213] The main question was, who would represent France?
[214] Vegard was the first to be asked, but said no. Personally, he was willing to do anything for France, but his position would not allow him this.
[215] Then they all looked to Chautam, the vice -premier.
[216] but he begged off as well.
[217] Since there were no volunteers, Pétain decided General Hunziker would be ordered to lead the delegation.
[218] The others to go would be Admiral Le Luc, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Navy, General Bergeret, Chief of Staff of Air Force, and General Perisseau, former military attaché in Rome.
[219] There had to be one civilian, as tradition dictated, and that would be...
[220] Leon Noel, former ambassador to Poland.
[221] They would all receive orders to represent France in this endeavor.
[222] By 10 .15 a .m., a list was given to De La Guatica.
[223] Again, the new government could move with alacrity when it came to the capitulation.
[224] But attached to the list of names was a request to halt the German advance.
[225] At any other time and place, this request would have given the Germans a good laugh.
[226] but now there were certain considerations for Hitler and Béton.
[227] If pushed too hard, the Béton regime may fall and Renault might return.
[228] But the request to halt their advance, and wasn't that the same thing as Renault's ceasefire request that Weygand refused, had to be asked for, because frankly, Béton had no desire to be captured along with his government.
[229] as the Germans came closer to Bordeaux.
[230] If this continued, the government may have to yet flee to North Africa.
[231] If any of this happened, the loser would be Hitler's future plans.
[232] De La Quedica knew this and advised Berlin accordingly that night of the 19th.
[233] Negotiations needed to start soon, for Germany's sake.
[234] During this meeting, the cabinet also discussed the proposition of leaving for North Africa.
[235] Although Pétain was against this, the approaching Germans made this discussion mandatory.
[236] Over General Vega's no, and he was probably speaking up for Pétain, the government agreed it was time to leave.
[237] It was decided that the ministers would leave the next day from the port of Vendres on a destroyer.
[238] Parliament would leave directly from Bordeaux tomorrow afternoon on the steamer Massilia and head for Morocco -Algiers.
[239] By the 19th, word was leaking out among the higher German circles about the location for the negotiations.
[240] The place would be in the woods of Compagnie, in fact, on the very spot where the German Empire capitulated to the Allies, at 5 a .m. on November 11, 1918.
[241] Hitler had come up with this idea on May 20, only 10 days after the start of the Battle of France.
[242] So by the late afternoon of June 19th, German army engineers had torn down a wall of the nearby museum that housed the old railroad car or wagon of General Foch, where the armistice was signed.
[243] The man representing France then was General Van Gaal.
[244] Just like the current war, the French wouldn't know what hit them.
[245] On the morning of June 20th, all was made ready for the trip to Africa.
[246] The ministers were to leave at 2 .30 p .m. But, at 12 .30 p .m., Pétain, without informing anyone, went on the radio again.
[247] He told his people why he had sought an armistice and that he, still the head of the government, was not leaving France, but that some ministers were going to Africa.
[248] This statement, intentional or not, and it was hard to tell with Pétain, immediately invalidated those going.
[249] Everyone ready to depart, including Chautam, the vice premier, who was going with Bétain's powers, was confused but undaunted.
[250] But then, to confuse the situation more, President Lebrun was contacted and told of a special meeting of the ministers called for by Bétain.
[251] Albert confirmed this when the president called him.
[252] Secretly, but not for long, Raphael Albert, who wanted to set up France along the same lines as the Nazi state, believed that all those heading to Africa were traitors.
[253] He further muddled the water by telling the ministers and members of parliament that the Germans were being held up at the Loire, so there was no Russian going.
[254] But this had more to do with Hitler's orders than French resistance.
[255] Pétain agreed with Albert's statement.
[256] But unexpectedly, Lebrun said he was going anyway.
[257] It was too dangerous to stay and folly for the entire cabinet to stay and risk getting captured.
[258] That seemed to clinch it for Albert.
[259] It's not known if Albert was working with Pétain's knowledge or simply acquiescence.
[260] But then he followed up this unconfirmed military report by forging an order for the entire cabinet and the ministers to stay put until 8 a .m. the next day, June 21st.
[261] Because he had used Pétain's personal notepaper, Vegard believed it legitimate and issued the order to everyone.
[262] Albert proudly admitted the deception after the war.
[263] But despite his intrigues, things were already in motion.
[264] The liner Massilia did leave on the morning of 21st, headed for Casablanca, but only with 29 deputies.
[265] Those on board were mostly the resistors who wanted to keep France in the fight.
[266] These included Deladier, Mandel, and others, some of Jewish background.
[267] And three days later, the word traitor would be officially used to describe them.
[268] The French armistice delegation, as instructed by Berlin, left Bordeaux at 2 p .m. on June 20th.
[269] The Germans had listened to the Spanish ambassador and knew they needed to begin the negotiations, even though the French had not formalized anything with Italy yet.
[270] But Pétain's hold on France was judged weak, and so the talks would commence.
[271] But Hitler insisted on tormenting his conquered enemies first.
[272] To be beaten in the field, and then having to sit before him and listen to his demands was the normal course of war and victory.
[273] But in between these bookends of combat was still enough time to satisfy his craving for revenge of a personal and national sort.
[274] The French were told to be at a Loire bridge near Tours at 5 p .m. To his credit, Beton told the party to break off talks if any of the following occurred.
[275] 1.
[276] The Germans demanded the fleet outright.
[277] Two, the Germans wanted all of metropolitan France.
[278] Three, if they demanded any part of the French overseas empire.
[279] Lastly, they were told not to sign anything unless the government approved in advance.
[280] As the French delegates moved out, Vegard thought about what would be demanded by Germany, or more specifically, by the master of this new and powerful Germany.
[281] The French government had talked and assumed they would have to give out Alsace and Lorraine forever and pay some outrageous amount.
[282] Those two territories had been exchanged between the combatants for years, and now it was Germany's turn.
[283] Then, considering the man in charge in Berlin, they realized that they would end up giving more than that.
[284] In fact, copies of the 1918 Armistice and Versailles Treaty were frantically looked for and found, to give the French some idea.
[285] of what this man would demand for stopping the onslaught and agreeing to peace.
[286] They again underestimated Adolf Hitler.
[287] Because the roads were so clogged with refugees, the car carrying the delegates did not make it to Tours until 10 p .m. that night.
[288] After crossing the Loire, they were met at Vendôme by a general of the German staff and told to continue to Chartres.
[289] They reached Chartres and then were told to move on to Versailles.
[290] and then to drive to Paris.
[291] They reached the capital at 7 .30 a .m. of the 21st.
[292] They had driven for 17 hours without food or sleep.
[293] They were then given a small breakfast and told to be ready to move again at 1 .30 p .m. that day.
[294] As the designated hour approached, the Germans had Hunsinger and his group on the road again.
[295] They were utterly exhausted and still had no idea where the negotiations would be.
[296] Vegard, back in Bordeaux, had waited all day by the phone.
[297] He had represented France back in 1918 that ended their last war and drove himself crazy, wondering what the now -victorious Germans would demand.
[298] He got his answer at 8 .30 p .m. that evening.
[299] The phone rang, and it was Hunziger.
[300] When Vegard got on the phone, Hunziger simply said, I'm in the wagon.
[301] Mon pauvre ami.
[302] My poor friend, Vegard cried, as he realized that the Germans were using the very railroad car he and his superior Foch used all those years ago.
[303] The negotiations had started earlier that day.
[304] The weather was perfect, but it's doubtful whether the Germans or the French noticed.
[305] Hitler pulled up at 3 .15 in his big Mercedes.
[306] In attendance was Goering, Braulich, Keitel, Grand Admiral Raider, Ribbentrop, and Rudolf Hess, Hitler's deputy.
[307] Goering was arrogantly swinging his Marshal's baton.
[308] The Chancellor knew he had time to look around before the French showed up.
[309] He had crafted everything, even the timing, to his liking.
[310] Their cars were near the Alsace -Lorraine statue from the First World War, but the hateful thing was hidden under German war flags.
[311] Underneath the flags was a limp eagle symbolizing the German Empire of the Hohenzollerns, with a large sword thrust through it.
[312] The inscription read, Here on the 11th of November, 1918, succumbed the criminal pride of the German Empire, vanquished by the free peoples which it tried to enslave.
[313] Hitler entered the historic armistice railroad car first, followed by his colleagues, and sat in General Faust's chair.
[314] and waited for the French.
[315] Shortly, the French delegation arrived.
[316] General Charles Hunziker pulled up in his car and got out with the rest of his party.
[317] It was obvious that the French did not know this is where they were being led to, but now the shock could be seen on their faces.
[318] The pain and humiliation Hitler was seeking from the French was achieved.
[319] It was obvious to all present.
[320] But besides revenge of a personal and national kind, Hitler wanted the French off balance and bereft of strength, so as to not dicker with the armistice details.
[321] The terms were harsh, to say the least.
[322] The French, though shocked, struggled on as best they could in quiet, embittered dignity.
[323] General Hunziger and the rest somehow found the strength to climb into the railroad car and take their seats.
[324] Hitler then nodded to General Keitel, chief of the German High Command, or OKW.
[325] and he started the proceedings by reading a statement, probably written by Hitler.
[326] Its terms had certainly been heard many times before in his speeches on how he saw the world.
[327] The statement covered the many wrongs done to Germany by the Allies in 1918.
[328] It ended on how the Allies had started the present war.
[329] Satisfied, Hitler got up and removed himself from the proceedings.
[330] The rest was for less important men.
[331] He was preparing to visit Paris.
[332] General Keitel, who would speak for the Germans, then passed out copies of the German terms with French translations.
[333] But earlier, Keitel received strict orders not to alter any of the articles.
[334] Hunziger, still dealing with the shock of where he was, had only more to suffer through once the terms were read out to him and his associates.
[335] He first commented on the unusually harsh terms.
[336] But what the world would soon realize was that the Nazi party was playing by their own rules.
[337] It was no longer a time of fight, lose, pay some money, give up some land, and be humbled while you rebuilt your army with the next generation.
[338] The Nazis saw the world differently and were playing for keeps.
[339] This was to be the last war with France for a very long time.
[340] Mussolini talked of a new Roman Empire, but in reality, Hitler was building one.
[341] with a different name.
[342] The vanquished countries would remain German vassal states far into the future.
[343] Still reeling from the 24 articles that would drastically change France, Hunsiger found the clarity to think and comment that if a certain country across the Alps, he couldn't bring himself to say Italy, had similar requests, then France would elect to keep fighting.
[344] to which General Yodel, the number two man at OKW, in charge of the moment, said he understood about the Italians, but he, like Keitel, could not change anything.
[345] But then Hunziger had his own shock to deliver to the German delegation.
[346] He told the men sitting across from him that he could not, that he would not, sign without express authority from the government in Bordeaux.
[347] So somehow, That evening, a phone was set up that connected the rail car to the French government further west.
[348] Soon, Hunziger was talking to Vegard.
[349] Since this was the only way the Germans were allowing the French to talk, because they wanted to record it, Hunziger had to repeat the entire armistice over the phone to Vegard, who then repeated every word out loud so his aide could write it all down in longhand.
[350] Vegard protested against this process.
[351] but the Germans wanted an answer by 9 a .m. the next morning.
[352] The reading to Vegard took an hour.
[353] Vegard then asked, was there any discussion about peace?
[354] Hunziger informed his superior that the Germans flatly refused to talk peace terms.
[355] The negotiations at Compagnie were called off until the next day.
[356] At half past ten that night, back in Bordeaux, the cabinet was in session to discuss the 24 articles.
[357] Someone said out loud during the discussions, if these are the German conditions, it would be better to leave for Africa.
[358] Pétain responded, still that idea?
[359] As he raised his hands to the sky.
[360] It was clear that Pétain wanted no more discussion of Africa or resistance.
[361] He intended to sign no matter the terms.
[362] In fact, to secure his position in early August, the former leaders and resistors would be taken to a special court to make sure that France did not...
[363] or could not re -enter the war.
[364] The cabinet took a break and resumed in Lebrun's office and began again at 1 a .m. They talked for two hours more.
[365] Lebrun said the conditions were unacceptable, but did not press it.
[366] They adjourned at 3 a .m. and agreed to begin again at 8 a .m. on the 22nd.
[367] British Ambassador Campbell had heard of the meeting and was determined to talk to someone, but he could not get access to Badeau or Pétain.
[368] as they were still in the meeting.
[369] So Campbell put himself outside the cabinet room and waited.
[370] They finally came out, but no one would tell Campbell anything about the armistice conditions or the situation with the fleet.
[371] During the morning of the 22nd, Ambassador Campbell ran into Charles Rue, who thought Badeau, his superior, had given Campbell a copy of the armistice, so he openly talked about the terms and let him see a copy.
[372] Campbell frantically started copying.
[373] Once he was finished writing, it was clear to the British ambassador that no matter the solemn wording, the Germans and Italians would have their hands on the fleet.
[374] Charles Rue said that Darlan promised the fleet would be sunk first.
[375] Campbell did not have time to point out the impossibility of that statement.
[376] He ran off and the British government had the information by noon, along with a comment from Campbell that it was clear the French would likely sign.
[377] Despair gripped London.
[378] They shortly replied to Campbell, French government apparently helpless.
[379] Our only hope is Admiral Darlan.
[380] Proposed terms put fleet entirely at German command.
[381] No reliance possible on German promises.
[382] Campbell must insist to Admiral Darlan that if the fleet cannot be surrendered to Great Britain or United States, it must be scuttled.
[383] Sitting across from Hunziker the next morning was General Keitel.
[384] and as Jurel had told the French representative, he could not budge on the conditions either.
[385] Here are some of what the French had to agree to.
[386] 1.
[387] All anti -Nazi Germans would be returned to Germany.
[388] In other words, all those poor souls who had slipped through the Gestapo's fingers and found safety in France would be returned.
[389] Pétain's government would work diligently in pursuing this condition.
[390] 2.
[391] All French nationals fighting Germany with another country had no status and therefore could be shot.
[392] It was said less directly than this, but the point still held.
[393] The Germans were thinking of de Gaulle and anyone who joined him.
[394] Again, the new French government was not against this.
[395] 3.
[396] All POWs would remain in captivity until there was a declared peace.
[397] Vegard believed...
[398] just like everyone else in Bordeaux, that Britain would give up in a week or so and therefore agree to this condition.
[399] But because Hitler was not interested in peace, the French government was condemning a million and a half Frenchmen to be prisoners of Germany for five years.
[400] There would also be a disarmament of all forces with a few left for internal peace.
[401] So two -fifths of metropolitan France to the south and southeast, the poorest part of the country, would be left unoccupied.
[402] Three -fifths of France would go to Germany.
[403] The entire Atlantic coast and all along the Channel would be taken.
[404] Paris would be in German hands, but the French government could sit there if they wanted to.
[405] There was no mention of North Africa.
[406] 4.
[407] The armistice would take effect six hours after the French signed a similar armistice with Italy.
[408] What no one said with much importance.
[409] because it was so hugely important that everyone was treading lightly, was the conditions for the French fleet.
[410] Churchill had offered to let the ships lay up in British ports, in exchange give France the freedom to conclude a separate peace.
[411] But Hitler wanted the warships disarmed, demobilized, and stationed in French ports.
[412] Germany promised not to use them now or later.
[413] It pledged in the armistice.
[414] The German government solemnly declares to the French government, that it does not intend to use, for its own purposes in the war, the French fleet, which is in ports under German supervision.
[415] Furthermore, they solemnly and expressly declare that they have no intention of raising any claim to the French fleet at the time of conclusion of peace.
[416] But that was another lie.
[417] The previous day, Hunziker told Weygand the conditions for the fleet were better than expected.
[418] The French would be allowed to keep enough ships to safeguard their colonies.
[419] The rest would be disarmed and kept in French ports under German and Italian supervision.
[420] But to tempt the French to take his position over the British, Hitler offered the French what mattered most to them, their own government and territory.
[421] He put on the table, letting the French have their own government in an unoccupied zone.
[422] There they would supposedly be free to govern themselves.
[423] What the French didn't realize...
[424] was that, since all the ports of France proper would be in German hands in the occupied zone, their ships would be too.
[425] So, if they signed, they would have a part of France to govern until a peace settlement was reached.
[426] But Hitler would be getting something too, besides the French fleet being delivered into his hands.
[427] There would be no French government in exile in London or North Africa causing trouble.
[428] Hitler would get his way, but because of German guile, French pride, and the new government's hatred of Britain.
[429] Most of the day of June 22nd, the French cabinet was in continuous session.
[430] They would demand changes and want their demands and German responses added to the armistice.
[431] But mostly for the record, they knew and were repeatedly told no changes.
[432] The cabinet sent their desired changes by Weygand's aid to Hunziger at 10 a .m. 1.
[433] Bigger unoccupied zone, including Paris.
[434] 2.
[435] Fleet disarm under German supervision in North Africa.
[436] 3.
[437] Destroy all aircraft instead of giving them to Germany.
[438] 4.
[439] No to the part of giving up German refugees.
[440] Germany only said yes to the part about the aircraft.
[441] Hunziger told Vega this at 4 p .m. So through all of the 22nd, Hunziger argued and stalled.
[442] But it was not due to the Germans' stubbornness.
[443] Hunziker knew the Germans would not alter the articles or agree to the French demands.
[444] No, Hunziker wanted Weggant to order him to sign, not merely to give him permission to sign.
[445] Nobody wanted responsibility for this.
[446] The French were finding out, you don't negotiate an armistice.
[447] But for the Germans, enough was enough.
[448] Keitel, or more likely Hitler, was tired of wasting time.
[449] The French were beaten after all.
[450] So at 6 .30 p .m., Keitel gave the French an ultimatum.
[451] They had one hour to accept or reject the armistice.
[452] Hunziker got on the phone and reported this to General Vegard, who immediately gave Hunziker an order to sign.
[453] It read, Number 43 slash DN.
[454] Order is given to French delegation to sign the armistice with Germany.
[455] So at 6 .42 p .m., the two parties met in Marshall Fauch's old railroad car again.
[456] But before Hunziker signed, he had a statement to make.
[457] He said, Forced by the fortunes of war to give up the struggle in which she was engaged on the side of her allies, France sees very hard demands imposed on her under conditions which underlie their severity.
[458] She has a right to expect that in future negotiations, Germany will be guided by a spirit which will permit the two great neighboring peoples to live and work in peace.
[459] Then General Keitel followed this up with his own quote, that it was honorable for a victor to honor the vanquished.
[460] They then both signed the armistice at 6 .50 p .m. June 22, 1940.
[461] The French delegation was then driven to Paris.
[462] The next day, they would be flown to Rome to sign another armistice.
[463] Near midnight of the 22nd, British Ambassador Campbell was ordered home.
[464] He tried to say goodbye to President Lebrun, but was told to make an appointment.
[465] He then tried to say Pétain, but told he was asleep.
[466] Feeling that someone should know he was leaving, he then went to Bordeaux's house, who was asleep, but agreed to see him.
[467] Campbell's goodbye certainly woke the foreign minister, who protested his leaving.
[468] But Campbell replied he was ordered by London to not be captured by the Germans, who were certainly on their way to Bordeaux.
[469] Campbell boarded a destroyer at St. Jean de Luz and sailed for home.
[470] Paraphrasing William Shire's amazing book, The Collapse of the Third Republic, the break between the Allies of two world wars against Germany was complete.
[471] Greetings, everyone, from Central Virginia.
[472] Just wanted to say thank you for all the emails that people have sent in, all the nice comments on Facebook and the people who have checked like and all that stuff.
[473] I really do appreciate it.
[474] It keeps me going.
[475] And I just wanted to thank those of you who have signed up for Audible.
[476] I've gotten several emails on this.
[477] The way it works is if you sign up, get your free...
[478] download.
[479] And then even if you cancel your membership right away, I still get what I'm going to get.
[480] So you can certainly do that just to help me out.
[481] And for those of you who did, I appreciate it.
[482] I have a wedding coming up and I had to buy him a nice gift.
[483] So that certainly helped.
[484] So you can keep the membership or not.
[485] It's totally up to you.
[486] But as long as you sign up, you're taking care of me if that's your only goal.
[487] And I thank you.
[488] So for those of you who got volume one of the Churchill series by William Manchester, there's always, you know, volume two, I think it starts 1939.
[489] So obviously that would be of interest to you.
[490] And for those of you who've asked, yes, when I get back to Asia, I will be giving it the detail that I give Europe.
[491] As long as I can find the resources, I'll be happy to do it because I'm learning a lot and I'm having fun.
[492] And I certainly want you to enjoy it as well.
[493] But just to hold you until I can get back to Asia and do the minute detail.
[494] If you check out Laszlo Montgomery's...
[495] The China History Podcast.
[496] If you look at episodes, and I'll just read some of them out.
[497] If you look at episodes 30, 40, 44, 45, 46, 48.
[498] 53 through 56.
[499] It's all about China right before the war.
[500] So you'll find it very interesting about the start of the Communist Party and the Communists and the Nationalists.
[501] So he does a really good job of putting it in a good general context.
[502] So when I go back and give it the detail, it'll probably make a lot more sense to you.
[503] But you should definitely check out his website, especially those episodes.
[504] I think it'll hold you until I can get back there.
[505] I've gotten a couple of emails from people, why is France the Third Republic?
[506] Why is Germany the Third Reich?
[507] So what I thought I'd do is this time I would answer that as far as France, and the next time I'll do that as far as Germany.
[508] So the First Republic of France was set up in September of 1792, after obviously the kings deposed the French Revolution.
[509] And that goes from 1792 until 1804, when Napoleon decides to make himself emperor.
[510] So there's the first.
[511] The second one starts in 1848, led by Napoleon's, I think it's his nephew, and it goes until 1851.
[512] The Third Republic obviously is the one we're covering now.
[513] It goes from 1870 until 1940, and of course it started up after the collapse of the French when they were defeated by Germany in the Franco -Prussian War.
[514] The Fourth Republic starts in 1946, and it goes until 1958.
[515] Then there were some changes made.
[516] And the Fifth Republic is what France is in now.
[517] And it started in October of 1958.
[518] And I think it's like the third longest running regime for them.
[519] So they're still on the Fifth Republic and hopefully they'll be there for a while.
[520] And next time I'll examine the Germans' Reich.
[521] So again, thanks for listening.
[522] Goodbye for now.
[523] And the next episode will come out.
[524] Welcome to True Spies.
[525] The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.
[526] Suddenly out of the dark it's appeared in love.
[527] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.
[528] What do they know?
[529] What are their skills?
[530] And what would you do in their position?
[531] Vengeance felt good.
[532] Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.
[533] True Spies from Spyscape Studios.
[534] Wherever you get your podcasts.