South Beach Sessions - Mike McDaniel

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[10] Proximo.

[11] Jersey City, New Jersey.

[12] Hello and welcome to South Beach Sessions.

[13] I'm legitimately thrilled about this one and not for the reasons this guy thinks, I don't think.

[14] I'm a fan of his general way.

[15] He is doing it differently.

[16] He's a football coach and he's made the dolphins a little more successful than they were.

[17] But his personality seems not only unusual but authentic in a way that suggests real leadership.

[18] I'm happy to have you in town.

[19] I've loved the way that you've carried yourself.

[20] And now the pressure starts.

[21] You've got to win playoff games because it's been a joyride for two.

[22] seasons is the whiz kid and people have all sorts of questions now the pressure starts yeah i like to meet the delusional folk that got got to have this job and have two years where they didn't think they had pressure i don't envy how lopsided the sport makes you guys because it seems to me like you want to live a full and balanced life and then you also have this passion that probably eats a good 80 hours a week out of your brain power.

[23] Yeah, you know, it's similar to the path of many American or human is that there's certain things that you can't control.

[24] So you do have to understand that you can do the job the right way.

[25] You can do to the best of your abilities and things can't work out and you have to be okay with that.

[26] um it's uh it's it is it is all encompassing there are a lot of people that have opinions based upon your success or failure and and you have a you have a part in that but it's um it's definitely a team that decides that but um i wouldn't shed too many tears um it's it is public it's it's rough but it's not that different than um many people experience life where there's things that you can't control that you're subject to.

[27] Oh, but I've always found fascinating in your line of work that there are things you can't control but by nature you guys are control freaks and then you plan and you plan and you plan and then somebody fumbles or something happens out there that is out of your control.

[28] To me it's the great exasperation of what you do for a living that you would be passionately obsessed to the lopsided detriment of your life and then you get out there on Sunday and everything you did is out of your control.

[29] No, I think that it's one of the greater challenges to lead in this scope or in this way at this time in the world.

[30] I think there's a lot of things that are drawing you to become a control freak that are drawing you into experiencing your experience first and foremost above all others.

[31] but, you know, there's the caveat of the position is that your head coach that has the ability to really, really influence a lot of people's lives.

[32] You are, by nature, the job is servitude, and so you should be serving others.

[33] I think the challenge that is not deep diving into, your own personal experience and how the outcomes affect you is also what you're you know that what you sign up for is to be a head coach of and influence the the lives of other people in a positive way so for me the the the pressure all of it um is part of the job and i think part of the challenge is not is to let go of the control is to be a teammate is to proper really empower teammates with things and really have all your teammates being uplifted with autonomy with with things that they have to call their own.

[34] It's such a farce to over -control and over -try -to -regulate, you know, what's going on an NFL organization because truth be told you are you're vulnerable to their work it don't get delusioned it is not you it is the accumulation of everyone so that's not what leadership looked like in your world 20 years ago that's not what you grow up learning from the idea of that job is service leadership isn't hey you follow me it's how can I help yeah I think um you know I think fortuitously enough, I didn't come from any scope of background of leadership.

[35] I got to witness it organically of what was effective and what was not.

[36] You know, there was no one in my family had tremendous amount of power in any of their jobs.

[37] I hadn't, you know, from my family, had gone to college yet.

[38] We have a couple family members that have graduated college now besides me. But, you know, overall, I think, you know, I knew from my first conscious memory that the things that I would view that I would aspire to be, hopefully one day, I didn't look the part by nature anyway.

[39] So I was going to have to be unique and different.

[40] um different was uh i attached to greatness i saw michael jordan and um and uh i guess when i was a little older tiger woods but you know um any supreme athlete of my beau jackson and and the all of my what do you mean your first conscious memory loving sports you're talking about just like conscious memory of myself uh my conscious memory of myself was loving sports and was Also, you know, I wanted to be a head coach of an NFL football team since I was like five years old.

[41] So what the hell is that?

[42] I don't know, obsessive compulsiveness as a five -year -old.

[43] It was probably unique.

[44] You know, there were a couple of years after I was five that I spent time to think.

[45] about being an architect or something but probably unique I don't think that a lot of five -year -olds who like was there a coach you had modeled there I didn't I did not no no there wasn't just you imagined yourself as a five -year -old leading football players as the head coach yes I I I was tied to the to an idea that my mom predisposed in me which was that I could that I was that I could be great and then I was I was that I could be great and then I Along the way, I started to notice that my will and my drive could get me to places that, you know, if I would have, basically, I learned at a young age that if I was overambitious and I had big dreams, even if I didn't realize them, I would maximize myself.

[46] And so the biggest dream that I could come up with as a five -year -old in Greeley, Colorado was.

[47] be the head coach of Denver Broncos.

[48] And so from that moment on, I'm recognizing that nothing about myself is really, there's not a ton of similarities that I'm seeing people doing that job and living in that world and leading people, but there's fragments of things that you pick up that you notice that are kind of like your personality.

[49] And then you, you know, for me, just kind of thought about well theoretically um if you could help anyone achieve their hopes and dreams and you could convince them as such they don't really care about what the way you look or the way you talk or the way that and and the more that you could you could add value to people's lives and show them that you have valuable things to contribute to their lives it can look any way that you want it.

[50] I have a thousand follow -up questions.

[51] Your ambition is a five -year -old being extreme.

[52] Where else did it reveal itself?

[53] You said it was showing up all over the place, because that's super unusual what you're talking about.

[54] Well, you know, I brought it up before, and I'm never able to do it quite justice, but there is a, there's a moment in my third and third grade that was a game changer for how I approached all of life and something that provides residuals to this day.

[55] It was, you know, piggybacking on, I had a single mom that was building me up all the time and saying I was so great at anything, any little thing I did was unbelievable and I could be, and I started to buy into that.

[56] Your best cheerleader giving you confidence, giving you.

[57] um you know then i'm in first grade and maybe not the most popular um kid in the class or whatever and you're trying to digest the world you know the world was my mom before but now now the world says that i'm maybe not that or giving me reasons to think that i'm not that um you know not being the uh you know my mom said that i was so cute why why don't the girls love me you know those types of things you're not fitting in exactly totally you know not the not the way that you know i kind of saw myself through my mom's eyes and then third grade at there's a there's a multiplication test that's like a timed hundred question deal and i really wanted to you know get 100 % and finish first i wanted to be the best in class well there was someone that um along the way um that i'd notice that was better at math than me. Stephanie called this she she was like she also happens to be like eight inches taller in me um and just dominating math and she I could tell she was better at than me but then this one day we have this test and I say no not today step I'm going to win this test in my head you know no I am the best and I just decided to to mimic what my mom had told me blindly even though I knew it not to be the case I ignored that whatever that the narrative within your mind and I sure enough I won the test the whole the whole competitive finish within the time who can get a hundred I won and I was like that was the light bolt that if I could that people are you can will yourself out of fearlessness to to outperform people that are more talented than you simply because they aren't you have something inside you that you can control that can that can help you succeed where others fail or you can and that for me transformed the rest of my life I don't know what you regard is most interesting parts of your path.

[58] But tell me just how unlikely it is with whatever details it is you wish to choose from your childhood, how being with a single mother who was working six and a half out of seven days a week, how unlikely it is to get to Yale and get to your dreams coaching an NFL football team from wherever it is you were.

[59] Yeah.

[60] It's wild to think.

[61] And in those terms um yeah i would i would say the percentages um are are pretty low and i think you know it's interesting um you have the the the two things that go on especially when you talk about your own childhood you have your experience at the time and then as you reflect you know um that are quite different a lot of times and you know there's there's so much of who i became were results of of i don't know um solving the problems that every every kid has those those problems are monumental to me um and manifest themselves and in the way i just go about life in general um But, like, you know, being a cool kid at school was a big deal, and it didn't come easy to me, having friends.

[62] I didn't know why at the time.

[63] I was chasing a lot of popularity in elementary school, middle school, and high school.

[64] And I just remember always trying to, you know, as I grew up and I started figuring out some of those.

[65] those, uh, I don't know, conendrums or those, those life, life obstacles, um, you know, I think I was, I was constantly trying to, uh, changing schools from sixth grade to seventh grade, moving from Greeley to, to Denver, um, going from a 70 ,000 person town to metropolitan Denver, um, was a, was a big moment.

[66] in my life and and I spent the my seventh grade year um you know I found a friend early at dan Soder who's the the comedian um and we kind of hung out together and kind of navigated the waters but I was really trying to figure out how I could um still not fitting in before that still feeling a bit still still still not not fitting in not being cool but now you've got a friend a little lonely?

[67] Yeah, a little lonely.

[68] But then I, you know, my personality is kind of changing.

[69] I'm starting to try to be funny all the time.

[70] And at the time, I remember thinking that I'd always want to, I wouldn't ever want people to feel like they were better off if I wasn't there.

[71] So like I'd want to be, if I was invited somewhere, I'd want to be the life of the party.

[72] and add value I can remember feeling that way and those types of obstacles or me being driven by that way driven by that.

[73] But inauthentically, right?

[74] If you're seeking popularity, it's not just by being yourself, you're seeking a reward.

[75] Right.

[76] Seeking the reward.

[77] And at the time these were for a person that doesn't model his personality after anybody that never really had someone to kind of model themselves after and you're kind of figuring out who you are and what works and I just know this driving force is so that people want to be around me. And so those things figuring out figuring out how to do that and being able to be successful in that scope with that vision, with that objective for to belong and doing that you know trial and error and you know when you're when you're young your your world is uh when you're 13 the world's only existed for 13 years so a month is a bigger deal it's interesting though that you're choosing popularity like you're not going to didn't have money uh and you're saying a little bit you're saying didn't have someone to to model myself after but you're not sinking into the idea that dad wasn't around you're just saying all i wanted was popularity because it would allow me to fit someplace.

[78] And, you know, the funny is I've had people always ask me about dad not being around and how it affected me. And if you would have asked me, I would have, with 100 % conviction, told you it didn't matter when I was young.

[79] Only, you know, I kind of tie this desire to belong and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And I know chasing people wanting me around, you know, in hindsight, as I've been older, it probably was driven from, you know, that lack of acceptance that you experience when you're void of a, void of a parent on their own choosing in your mind.

[80] You know what I mean?

[81] So yeah you blame yourself for it and you question your worth like did I run them off especially during formative years like that when you don't know anything about you know you want to be an NFL head coach but you don't know how other things are going to impact you but the reason I bring up popularity like the reason I bring that up is because it was something that was ever present from you know I want to say when I moved to Denver in seventh grade on and at no time did I did I have any could I reason was why that was the case.

[82] Maybe because my mom said I was cool when I was little, but, um, and may have been overcompensating too to just like she was probably afraid, just generally afraid.

[83] And so let me help boost him as much as I can, even if I have to feign strength.

[84] Right.

[85] But it wasn't, but I've since attached all those things, um, to kind of my, you know, I don't think it's ironic that there's things that a team sport provides being a part of a team being a part of a you know you know outside my grandparents on my mom's side it wasn't really close with a lot of my family so I had a very very small family and I was uh you know trying to embody um you know as a as a head coach you get to kind of to write the wrongs, so to speak, you're going to be the dad of a team.

[86] You're going to write the wrongs of, you know, I didn't have a dad in my life.

[87] That was someone that I could call dad, but I sure could be a great dad.

[88] And I think there's some ties to my professional ambition team subsequently a whole there's a whole list a laundry list of things that i've since been able to kind of reason where this drive where this focus this obsession um that that have had my whole life where that came about and it it starts and stops with you know the the most foundational elementary pillars that coincide to who we are, those nuclear relationships and how they manifest themselves in your life.

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[101] It's a super unusual way that you coach.

[102] Are you an empath?

[103] Like if you, I don't know whether there's a clinical diagnosis for this, but are you an empath?

[104] Yeah, I've been, I've been annoyed as such by people in the energy field, and I've been convinced kind of as such.

[105] I kind of, you know, it's funny, I had heard that, heard that phrase, you know, I was kind of, um, I was kind of, um, I'm typically an open -minded person, but I wasn't, I didn't deep dive into the world of energy.

[106] And then once, you know, there's an esthetician that my wife was working with that met with me when I was in California.

[107] I kind of took advantage of the, the, I try to take advantage of the world that's around me. And in California, there's a lot of energy talk.

[108] And, you know, she was overtaken by, like, my presence in the, in the room.

[109] And, and, you know, start talking to me, kind of, kind of open my eyes to something that, um, is a part of me. I guess I would be, it'd be appropriate to describe me as an empath because of all the energy that I'm absorbing and giving out on a daily basis.

[110] You're energetically trying to help people find a better path to their optimal success and the things they want through servitude.

[111] And you're energetically trying to, uh, connect with them in ways that are, I mean, I don't, at the height of what you do for a living, I don't know if it can feel spiritual, but in there somewhere would be purpose.

[112] It very much, very, very, very much does, uh, I am drowning in purpose.

[113] Um, drowning has negative competition, not, I am, like, if purpose is oxygen, it is breathing through me on a daily basis this is how this studio was built you have to be the best listener that I've ever encountered the stuff you just shot back the stuff you just shot back at me well I'm I'm super curious about the roots of who you are because I haven't seen a team coached this way and I haven't seen a I haven't heard a coach talk this way because it's pushing down of feelings it's repressing of feeling it's covering up feelings it's toughing through your feelings your feelings don't matter and you're sitting here saying no i kind of care that my linebacker likes music and yeah um i think uh to be your best self you have to be yourself i really and i really believe that i think there's different to truly maximize each individual um you know how how silly does it like this blows my mind when you start talking about the psychology of performance and you start to talk about uh you know how you know how you know how great people do anything great and where they put their mind and what they're focused on in a professional setting if i'm creating an environment where people are spending time trying to guess as to the way I want them to present themselves to me. That's the orchestration of not being in a place you can't be yourself.

[114] A lot of wasted energy too.

[115] And that blows my mind that short circuits about how much opportunity cost that is.

[116] When you're doing one thing, you're not doing another.

[117] And when you're trying to...

[118] It's really inefficient.

[119] It's crazy, and we're talking about being able to focus on certain, being focused, to be able to focus on the right things and to hear the, hear coaching in general, and to be able to focus on what you need to do to ensure that your dream of your life can be, I don't know, fulfilled.

[120] oh, by the way, spend half your time trying to figure out the way I want you to act.

[121] No, it's, I can't imagine.

[122] And that's impossible.

[123] Well, I just can't imagine how someone like O'Dell Beckham, for example, who has been punished for his authenticity in an assortment of ways publicly, how he arrives at your doorstep and then your recruiting pitch to him on like, no, no, no, we're going to work to help you here so that we maximize the best of you because I understand how hard it is to do what you do through all of the injuries and everything how hard it is to be as great as you've been no and so you go into the you go into the avenue of scars and that's what that fits within like how long does it take someone to get over scars that they have you know you're conditioned to experience you go to a football meeting and um you have a certain mindset um a lot of these guys that have had unbelievable success have had it with coaches that were favorable to the journey and without them and all in between and for me when players get into our building like you know I think our coaching staff and the whole building does a great job of this but like understanding that they're carrying the weight of all those scars those expectations those that you think is true and then oh by the way it's not this this way here for a specific reason um there's a lot of resistance a lot of like is this a setup they don't trust it this is a nurturing environment this is football as a nurturing environment environment like you're trying you're not you're not uh coddling them there are expectations involved but the fact that you care about their feelings at all i think is unusual i don't think coaches are supposed to care about eric bolster says all the time that i'm not there it's I don't care whether they like me or not.

[124] That's not the job.

[125] No, and it's more for them, let's say that we have the gift of the best things that a player could hear if you're playing professional football.

[126] We have these pieces of gold that are coaching points.

[127] If players understand that, gold and understand your intentionality where your intent lies um they're going to listen allow us to give them that gold that much faster and with that much more conviction and clarity i think if you had to me i i i want to i want to i want to take out the all of the unnecessary quite literally bullshit that is in that people have accumulated through their their journeys um to get there and just let's make it about i can help you with um with these things listen to what those things focus focus on those things focus on nothing else and then watch your game improve and And to me, that's more of the way of the modern day athlete that has more individual training, that has more club exposure, that has more knowledge of and more scope of what should be done.

[128] Let's show them that we can give them the best tools.

[129] basically saying I'll meet you where you are.

[130] You don't have to come over here trying to guess where I am.

[131] And I mean, the modern A player also has something that I don't think anybody is bringing any sort of sensitivity towards.

[132] And that's uncharted, uncharted micromanagement of their careers by, you know, the social media and how that, when, one person's voice or one person's negative take on who you are and what you're doing, how they can spiral people, now magnify it by 50 million.

[133] There is so much noise that is just like the noise that I had when I was a third grader, and I recognized that Stephanie Call was better than me. but I had the tools to block out the noise.

[134] That's what you're trying to give them in a professional football setting is a place that all of those things are true in terms of how I try to be a human being for them to understand where I'm coming from to best engender a teacher -student relationship.

[135] But also, it's a teacher -student relationship.

[136] But also, it's, also very demanding.

[137] You know, if you ask any of our veteran players about how we practice, I put, you know, our, I mean, we practice like it's a game at all times, as best we can within the rules of CBA.

[138] I didn't accuse you of being soft.

[139] Nobody out here, no, any out here isn't saying that you guys aren't working hard.

[140] But that's why people don't do it.

[141] People don't do it investing in people as a sort of softness that we're just trying to find a different level of coach -to -player relationship that can access deeper dives and fuller commitment than other places can.

[142] It's less that you were accusing and more like by nature, I always have to stipulate that because it does of just preconceived notions of what it is to let's just have a human being relationship what if you had an asset in the world what if you're a five star athlete and from the age 16 and on you've been exploited by every person that knows you and you make millions of dollars now and so you have even fewer people that give a shit about your your experience but that is real what if you have a what do you have a teammate in that process what can that take your game your life all all that you know can you explain to me the extremes of your obsession when you say obsessed like how often is it actually are plays creeping into your sleep like what are some of the examples you can give people to say you don't understand how obsessed I am with all of this.

[143] Well, so I have to, there's also something I recognize that's balanced, that you do have to balance your life out, and that's 100 % what my wife and daughter do for me. And so I have to personally create periods of time where I refuse to think about anything football.

[144] Being present.

[145] Being present with your family and you can't be consumed by something else the love at home will we'll call you on and i can't so in those times i can't watch documentaries okay that's a whole other caveat it's a distraction uh well because it will get me back to a professional thought and i'm just so family time is 100 % family time as ordered by you and the family as best for you in your life and i and i try to hold you know there's a lot of guilt that comes into being obsessed professionally when you're when you're so motivated by having a family and being a father to my daughter, Ella.

[146] So doing that, I can cut out all the family time and I can be myself, which is myself is always thinking about how I can grab something outside the box and apply it to um to what I'm doing professionally which is that I get the honor to to serve the Miami Dolphins organization as the head coach and and serve the fan base and all that stuff um and it it if it's not family time it doesn't go away um uh plays on numerous occasions um I'll wake up at midnight and I'll utilize my iPhone notes app and write the most random things that has one catchphrase that I'll get me back to that point.

[147] What has Katie, your wife, taught you about love?

[148] Um, she's taught me how to love someone that loves you.

[149] Um, you know, you don't, she really taught me what it was like to be loved.

[150] you know everybody you feel the you feel the love of nuclear family of things that you sign up for um you feel what you think is to be loved when you're in relationships um as you go in your life but then there's you know i didn't realize what it was like to be loved until it felt unconditional which You know, there needed to be some adversity for that opportunity to present itself, and, you know, I've talked about it a bunch, but, you know, some of the, seeing the, the, having my wife look at me and love me after, you know, failure, um, a disappointment or whatever, you know, there's been much written about when I got sober.

[151] That was probably the last time.

[152] I've really let her down, but feeling someone love you unconditionally and actually love you for your successes and failures, that has taught me how to love in life, not just her, but just people in general to not look at your actions as conditional based upon other people's actions and how to give the love that.

[153] I mean, listen, I'm in the midst of living a dream that I've had since I can remember and there's a lot of gratitude that comes with that.

[154] And where do you Where do you pour that into?

[155] Will you pour that into the love that you have for the world that exists that can put you in this position?

[156] And then you pour it out into people, even if it doesn't, they're not going to give it to you back.

[157] You know, those types of life lessons.

[158] I think the actions that I take on on a day -to -day basis, there's a lot of love.

[159] love that I exude when I, when I do that.

[160] And that's, I didn't understand that until we got deep into the, into my wife and I's relationship, not just on the front end, you know, you go through things that people go through.

[161] I want to talk about your sobriety, but she's described the job as lonely and anxious because of your job.

[162] So it's your dream and she's supporting your dream but it takes her husband away mentally away and yes you've got your errands and your honey -do list uh but uh it takes you away your dream takes you away it really does she was blown away you know i just um three days into um you know our our one summer break where i get away from work um as a head coach after the season um you know you're dealing with a lot of things that has to do with people's jobs moving forward, whether that's within the organization as a player or as a coach or as a player.

[163] And she was like jaw dropped the other night, I think Thursday night, the day of my last day of work at the very front end of our break.

[164] and I was just going to new levels playing with some Paw Patrol toys.

[165] And she was like, where did you find this energy?

[166] Where, oh, it's work, huh?

[167] And, you know, until that moment where I can file work away, you know, I can't even manifest myself as a father to the degree that I can when it's 100.

[168] percent on them you know it is all encompassing she even brought light to that when she was digesting my out of control um a new dad behavior you know just that dad away from work for a little while you can concentrate without the daily stresses i mean it's just a perpetual responsibility energy pull there's always a problem to fix yeah like that that's the job the job is not to avoid problems yet you're you're talking about 150 people directly it's to find them and fix them yeah and and that's and that's what your your role is and you know that i thought i knew that um i'd been given such a grand tutorial by being you know kyle shenan's right hand man for so long and watch to him do it and then watch all my peers get the jobs and you know i had a very concrete very great scope of what the job is but until you're in it you don't those things you don't really understand quite literally your no problems can't dictate your energy you're you're you're you're otherwise you will have no energy it's whack a mole it's there will always be more problems who are who are people going to go to if they don't go to you for problems.

[169] You are the solution finder.

[170] So it is ever present for that as well because you're, you know, the second that good things are happening, it's hilarious every time that, you know, my wife will let me know that things are pretty positive, just in the media scape.

[171] like my knee jerk reaction is all right where's the problem coming something's bad's going to happen there's problems all the time and uh i think um where i'm at you know in this being my third year it's really cool to have an idea um on job of what what it is to be successful at it and to be able to lean into those things that you think you're capable of being.

[172] It's hard to bring energy, positive energy to people all the time when people are constantly bringing you negative things.

[173] But if, you know, I never got into this field trying to be like, hopefully I can be a head coach or, you know, my ambitions are much grander.

[174] You know, I want to be, I want to multiple Super Bowl trophies and ultimately that results in me being able to be in a gold jacket wear those things are grand okay well I better be good at handling problems all right I'm going to continue to get better at being the guy that people both shovel problems towards but then expect positive energy pushed towards them.

[175] And I'm capable of doing that because I've got better at assembling people around me and the people that have been around me on top of some of the added individuals within the organization were able to facilitate that because I am definitely a product of a cumulative work of many individuals and it is tricky but mom and Ela they definitely notice when it's 100 % all of my problems are that bedtime is too early and we need to be able to watch more movies and not play as much or do the math arithmetic that dad's bestowing upon I can't imagine what the last three years have been like for you because those are two seismic life events to arrive at your dreams and also after tribulation finally being able to welcome your daughter into the world.

[176] Right, no. It is, it was funny because the, you know, I had finally earned the opportunity to you know be a big part of what we did in san francisco from a coaching perspective and you know the players that i was able to touch and the responsibility given to me from game playing and all that stuff and um we were the send the saturday before we left to miami um for the for the super bowl um a week before that that Super Bowl that was a paramount implications to my entire career, that's when we found out that we were pregnant, or that Katie was pregnant.

[177] I was not pregnant.

[178] You were adjacent.

[179] You were adjacent to the proceedings.

[180] And, you know, I think it would be your chasing thing.

[181] for so long and they're both they could be considered overwhelming responsibilities for me they're the greatest gifts that I've ever been given all at once and fortunately I've been preparing who I am as a as a man to be a father my whole life and who I am as a professional to be a head coach.

[182] So, you know, it came all at once in terms of gigantic things within my life.

[183] But, you know, I felt like I'd been working tirelessly to be ready for it.

[184] You know, so it's, yeah, it's definitely unique.

[185] But, you know, I think.

[186] I'm also looking at it like that I'm very fortunate that I feel like I'm capable to execute both jobs at a high level.

[187] So, you know, what I, because for me, you know, in both circumstances, there's no going back that you don't get second chances.

[188] And the last thing I want to do is live in regret in either one.

[189] And so the I love the idea of fatherhood as a job I, a job I perform at a high level, like coaching, that you're giving yourself good grades on fatherhood because you're making sure to be present.

[190] And I don't know what you're taking from your own childhood that you had that you're applying here and that you didn't have that you're making sure to apply here.

[191] Well, you know, I think like most people, you work hard at identifying what your parents do do well to replicate that and then it's very easy to find the things that you were without um as as motivating factors to to parent i get you know the the the i had so many things to for me i was spending my whole childhood in the positive in the optimistic world that my mom created and that is so powerful just um in the in the journey of life she conjured the positive right it's not necessarily that it was that positive she was just bringing it to life verbally with and in her daily action right which which and and for me in retrospect that is a prime example of you can say you can you can you can spin anything into what you want it to be um our lights were turned off um we didn't have barely any money um i i you know we were i was at home from first you know there's large stretches of time where i'd be home to um fend for myself when you know can afford child care and that that that that space between i need to work this much um and but I can put you in child care for this long.

[192] You know, there was, dad wasn't around.

[193] We were, we didn't have much.

[194] And I had no idea because of what she chose to focus on.

[195] And I remember getting cool shoes when I got straight A's on on my report card.

[196] I didn't know that she had to save up to do that.

[197] you know so i think overall the that life lesson was implied with how what she chose to focus on because i started realizing some of the hurdles that i'd overcome that i didn't know were hurdles you know when i was in my late teenage years kind of figuring all this stuff out um that that That is something that I think Katie and I, we talked at length about, you know, when we had plenty of time to really plan for our child, considering we kind of thought it was a dream lost over five years since we started.

[198] And then by that time, we were so elated to have this miracle that we were ultra -prudely.

[199] positive when she when she was pregnant there wasn't like we didn't get into one fight um you know trying to picture trying to create something that you know we had a vision for uh that you know I had no experience on how proper parental relationship should should uh should really be portrayed to to a child um she had a little more knowledge and history she'd you know i love her parents and she had a great childhood but we were able to apply that positivity from the second that she was um in her stomach uh those things i think are super important this child will be surrounded by love a united love from the moment from the moment it's conceived the energy around this child will be a positive warm loving one and and to me that one thing that i've observed is like everybody you have no idea the consequences of any sort of actions and you know um but there's one thing that i've noticed as kind of like a litmus test on whether or not parents have done their done their job or not and me it'd be non -negotiable that i write the wrongs that i'd experienced um you know i i just wanted our daughter to know that unconditionally she is the most important thing in the world to two people and i think if you're able to me that gave me a fighting chance in the world because i had won but that idea that you are uh the the most important thing to someone beyond consequence and beyond condition.

[200] It gives you the ability to fight through your journey of life and to not give in to the world that does a great job of trying to break you down.

[201] You mentioned your sobriety.

[202] You've been sober since 2016.

[203] What were you, I've read you say I was running away from problems, but that's where you left it.

[204] What were you running away from?

[205] Well, so there's this weird part of me that was like, there's a lot of things that I didn't want to acknowledge based upon, you know, that when you come from nothing, being ungrateful is like really off -putting.

[206] And I was so grateful to be in the NFL, but then I wasn't still, there was things that were bothering me that I didn't want to, with my career, with where I was, you know, whether it was very minuscule or monumental, I just didn't, I'd been passed up.

[207] The opportunities weren't really there.

[208] but then at the same time I was still a coach in the National Football League I should be happy if it's taking longer than it should for me to ascend in the profession who cares and not allowing myself to even think about anything negative instead let me just forget about anything negative not understanding the process of everything doesn't always have to be positive but it's a positive experience jumping in and living into your problems because avoid i was avoiding all problems and that's not the sauce that's never that's not plausible nor is it realistic nor is it you have to have problems to have well it's not healing either avoidance isn't healing so it was it was much of that and and realizing that you could the second that you started to get a little tipsy then none of those problems existed anymore and then i'll figure out the issues later um those types of things uh you know i just i needed that next step of maturation of understanding how to be uh a positive how to how to how to how to still maintain my positivity towards life while acknowledging the things that can and should bring you down.

[209] Well, how does this one work, though?

[210] So are you sad because you're wildly ambitious and not arriving at the things that you want to arrive at?

[211] Or are you also just depressed or things are making you feel depressed and now you're throwing lighter fluid or the depressant of alcohol all over them because, because you're not totally aware of whether it's the job that's causing costing the sadness or whether it's just sadness that that's i think it's the greater fear of what do i have to do to be like for me the moment that the professional moment that was bringing me down was also um a professional triumph so to speak like that if you put me next to all the people that i grew up with and um you that's I have a lot to feel great about not being able to figure out why I was down was scary it's scary when you're like can I be happy um and I think you know that it kind of perpetuates on itself and becomes a bigger thing when in reality um you know I think I think I think it was just such an eye -opener that and a relief that hey you can have two things can coexist you can be overall very grateful for your life and simultaneously be unhappy with um certain things about your life just that was a huge epiphany for me because i was such an extreme person and thinking that it was all all one thing or the other that had been you know how and and realistically I kind of looked back and all of my time you know went all the way till probably my freshman year of college I've been kind of in a pattern handling things that would come my direction that I didn't didn't want to be a part of the equation or didn't want to handle, I'd just kind of dive into, um, diving into, I guess I would be presently, um, getting intoxicated to party out the problems.

[212] And then I'd have a good time and, and find value in, in that and, um, you know, get, never address anything that was kind of weighing on me. Then I, you know, my extreme personality, once I found, the better way of the world which was not running from problems but hitting him head on then I kind of became addicted to that do you remember the details on how you identified it as a dependency because I imagine you didn't think it was a dependency until you thought it was a dependency um oh I I kind of knew once I was there wouldn't be a day that would go by that I wouldn't have at least a couple beers I kind of knew that that was a problem and then I kind of just kept it to myself ignored the fact that I deep down knew that I had a problem and then when the problem surfaced I couldn't hide it anymore and it was in front of my professional world and I had to come to grips with it it forced me kind of to figure out okay well is this you know I need a deep dive into what is going on because I'm sabotaging myself you were late right you were late or you were let go because you were late to those were parts of the journey I fixed I was never late again once I once I had a career hiccup with the time of the else of it.

[213] But then it was people catching that I had alcohol in the office and was drinking on nights that no one would be drinking.

[214] It was that.

[215] It was like really finding my zest, that zest for life that I couldn't find because I was ignoring what was bringing me down.

[216] And it wasn't like one thing.

[217] It was how you handled all problems.

[218] All of those things, that zest, I would find with alcohol, and then I had to kind of come to grips with, okay, what am I doing?

[219] And why am I doing that?

[220] And originally, I had a feeling that I wasn't addicted to alcohol itself.

[221] I was addicted to the results of it.

[222] And so I just deep dove into problems, got such a, I don't know, so much weight was taken off my shoulders.

[223] And, you know, saying I knew early, probably in the first week that I could not drink again.

[224] Like I told my wife, I wouldn't because it was, oh, I just need to retool how I approach life and not just the good stuff.

[225] The more meaningful stuff, the stuff you have to get over, the stuff that you have to having a problem.

[226] That quite literally, three weeks after I got sober, I had a new problem.

[227] I was passed over again for the position coach job in Atlanta to work with Julio Jones the year we went to the Super Bowl.

[228] and that it was an immediate, immediate example of me being able to manifest this new way to look at things.

[229] And sure enough, there was a couple career, there was a couple of things that I was able to bring to the team's table on how, how we teach certain things and kind of had a, instituted a yak tape that off -season that we really leaned into in kind of an orchestration of how to coach it.

[230] I found all these professional, like, new levels of success within the profession, even though I didn't get the job by the formula that I was kind of already laying out, all the epiphanies that had hit me. You know, it was one of those moments that you really have to look yourself in the eye and figure out what do you want to be and I had to talk to my five -year -old self and not do wrong by him and everything that had worked for it was very therapeutic, very deep dive and, you know, it's been something I'm really proud of just because I understand how it could have gone a different way, for sure.

[231] You need the results, obviously, but it sounds like confidence is a real thing for you.

[232] You've learned to believe in yourself.

[233] You've learned to do it your way.

[234] You've learned to be authentically yourself because it's the easiest thing to be consistently day to do.

[235] Well, it also helps me bridge the gap of, there's also the point that you brought up early, which was like, there's only so much you can control.

[236] So much of what I do now, acknowledging things that are that are difficult in doing things the right way and that's how I keep score and certain things that I understand more than ever why people aren't themselves the risk inherently that there is towards that why people you know some of the things that I that I choose to very intentionally do things in a different manner that I've ever observed, that's because I know them to be right and I know why people don't go outside their comfort zone.

[237] I know why people don't lean into their own personality.

[238] And I do recognize that I've been gifted a platform where hopefully I can encourage more people to do.

[239] What a huge wisdom.

[240] to have like forgive me for interrupting you but to be resolute in your conviction of i'm doing this the right way i mean that well and and it's very you're doing it for all the right the correct reasons um understanding all implications as best you can and that is so much and there's times that the result won't mirror and you have to be okay with that it's got to be process not result i mean it has to your players can get injured like come on your play it's a violent sport and a bunch and your whole defense can be out when you're headed to kansas city and come on a lot of things can happen and then on top of that it doesn't so much of i've realized so much of my job is everyone else doing their job and who those people are and identifying really, really good human beings that I think, you know, I'm so proud of the coaching staff that we have in 2024 because, and so proud of the organization where it's at, all of these things I've learned on the job of, you want to talk about humility, I'm only as good as everybody I work with.

[241] And across the board, Um, you know, I think, I think people, I have, there's a bunch of people in place that, that really take advantage of the opportunity they have working, working with me and take, and make me right for, you know, how, how I delegate and how I try to empower and all those things.

[242] and um you know i you have to they have to see the reasons really you just have a bunch of people living out your hopes and dreams press and forth what you believe to be the best thing to do um and being able to live with that for the rest of your life you know this is something i've built up this has been the life dream sole focus of my entire existence you don't want regrets i appreciate your time i appreciate your vulnerability and i will tell you again that i appreciate your way of being you've given us a lot of time so i will just get you out of here on a couple of rapid fire questions uh can you tell me please about your senior thesis at yale okay senior thesis was the maturation of the national football league in the 1960s so I did a it had to be primary source at Yale as a history major one of your course credits is a year long independent topic a year long deep dive primary source thesis on whatever topic and you're passionate about for me since I knew I was going to be into coaching, I wanted it to be time well spent, and I spent time, you know, looking at primary source articles and the Bineckee Library covering the National Football League from like 19, the early 1950s all the way through the early 1970s and found out so much what I already thought I knew.

[243] One of the biggest things was I to learn all the positive things that were occurring by work of Al Davis in the 60s.

[244] I was a Denver Bronco fan.

[245] So I just knew the Raiders and I just hated the Raiders.

[246] You'd appreciate Al Davis's renegade spirit of doing it differently.

[247] Well, but then how the Super Bowl comes about and then from the Super Bowl, just where the state of the National Football League was and the television rights that kind of, you know, all of a sudden, 1958, college football is king, 1970, the National Football League is king.

[248] To find out the nuts and bolts behind all that, it was a really cool process.

[249] Tell me about Smokey Hill High School.

[250] what from your high school experience is something that is shaping you today that is the adult use still carries around from there the smoky hill high school you know it was a uh it's probably in the at the time the centennial uh school district or the cherry creek school district i should say um was probably the the top of the public schools and Spok Hill was within that.

[251] And they had so much access to all the international baccalaureate programs, all the AP programs, the opportunities that even though I was, you know, nobody was expecting big things coming from me. And it's not like anybody championed me during my process, but I was only able to position myself in the world the way I was because of the access of all the opportunities and how to me the that comes across in my teaching on a daily basis and in trying to gain the listening of a player because that I'm trying to give them the opportunity to learn something and maybe there's walls or barriers between us but if I can go that extra length to give him the opportunity to access those those coaching points that my expertise has found very valuable that can allow him the opportunity to take advantage of his I mean it's ever present the idea of opportunities and and that being an obligation um not an obligation, but that means something paramount to people's successes.

[252] And I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have access to those programs and wouldn't be able to compete on a national level in terms of a student trying to get acceptance into a university.

[253] I would have had no shot.

[254] So Smoggy Hill, great job with your AP program.

[255] Appreciate it.

[256] And I'm told from a dolphin source deep in the organization that there is a love story.

[257] at the center of how it is that you got the Denver Broncos start, how you got your first chance in football.

[258] Now 18 years in football, but it started where?

[259] Okay, so obsessiveness.

[260] I think this was third grade, too.

[261] You know, I was obsessed about being a head coach.

[262] I was obsessed about beating Stephanie calling math, right?

[263] Again, Stephanie named dropped a third time.

[264] And then I was obsessed with In the summer, the Denver Broncos, their training camp was at University of Northern Colorado, which is in Greeley, 10 -minute, 15 -minute bike ride from my house.

[265] In the summers, instead of having child care, the Denver Broncos practice would be my child care.

[266] I'd get up at 7 o' morning, ride my bike there and get autographs.

[267] Well, in the third grade, I had like a box of cards sorted by numerical.

[268] order and multiples of each player and I'd gotten Robert Del Pino number 39 earlier in the day on one particular day where I was getting autographs saw him later in the day and I was wearing a Charlotte Hornet's fitted hat that was super loud was the days of Lanzo morning and grandma Larry Johnson so it was a super loud color hat so I took the hat off put it on a wall ran and got the autograph so he wouldn't recognize me so i could get a second autograph because i was a greedy that's good that's good work by you though got the autograph came back hat wasn't there started crying um first Denver bronco employee that came out of lawrence hall which is where they stayed grabbed him asked him to look in the lost and found he went unsuccessfully returned no hat took down information two days later i saw the guy at um bronco camp again brings me inside gives me a hat gives me a hat with a price tag on he went out and bought me a hat he was the assistant video director for the Broncos I introduced him to my mother that night because my mom was like who's this stranger or the next day because my mom was like who's this stranger buying you things which at the time I was like what now I'm like yes that I'd be very inquisitive myself so introduce them the next day they started dating they got married that's how I moved to Denver and I became a ball boy because I was a video guy's stepchild.

[269] Right.

[270] You fast forward at the end part of that story, though.

[271] Really, you really rush through the end of it.

[272] And then they got married.

[273] I got my hat back.

[274] I stopped crying and they got married.

[275] Yeah, because clearly I told them to.

[276] No. But so many more details on the hat than the love.

[277] But I just asked you for the love story.

[278] And you're told that I can see the hat.

[279] I can see the hat.

[280] The love story you just fast forwarded through.

[281] The love story was that there was...

[282] It's okay.

[283] It's okay.

[284] You don't have to do it.

[285] Hey, hey, hey, you know.

[286] It's okay.

[287] We can move on.

[288] I just went into, I guess, Pavlov Zog, I just went into my mode of telling that story.

[289] I've told it many times.

[290] But the love was that the love part of that story is my mom loved.

[291] the hat no um they they they dated for a while um we can leave it alone you don't have to keep giving me details i thought i was going to be able to get you to cry on ela i thought there was going to be something there but i failed i have failed here and now i know why it's because you're just you're fast forwarding through the details that are emotional for you no the um i mean there's a there's a lot to cover we have a lot of interesting stuff to talk about so it's not of your failure that we didn't cry um uh thank you i appreciate you uh holding me to your bosom there and nurturing me on that one uh i found your sport to be very primitive when it comes to the leadership and so that you've learned that you've learned uh to reach a new generation of player and that you find yourself as an ally instead of a taskmaster it's nice to see someone treating the uh the labor uh humanely wow that's that was very complimentary and i am without words well thank you though It's it.

[292] Well, it's probably why I have a firm professional appreciation for your show and you as a human being.

[293] That's why I'm here.

[294] Thank you, sir.

[295] I'm building sandcastles.

[296] We wore you out.

[297] You need to get back to your wife and daughter.

[298] You've spent enough time here.

[299] I appreciate the opportunity.

[300] Thank you.

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