Carmelo Anthony

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rathers, and I'm joined by Monica Rathers.

[2] Hello.

[3] Hi.

[4] Hi.

[5] We finally announced that we're related today, the Rathers.

[6] Guys, I just, I'm going to jump right to it because there was a little Easter egg left in a previous fact check about a certain guess whose smile had the power to explode your garments.

[7] That's right.

[8] Everything disintegrated.

[9] Oh, man. Buttons popped.

[10] Oh, my gosh.

[11] Crotch exploded.

[12] Oh, man. What a time to be alive.

[13] I want a thing to witness.

[14] I'm so grateful for it.

[15] I really am.

[16] I didn't think that was possible in what the Newtonian physics I believe in.

[17] I didn't know that.

[18] It's rare that you get to see something like that in your life.

[19] A miracle?

[20] Yeah.

[21] Oh, my God.

[22] Carmelo Anthony.

[23] What a dude.

[24] He is a 10 -time NBA All -Star and currently plays for the Los Angeles Lake Hearers.

[25] And he has a book out September 14th.

[26] where tomorrow's aren't promised.

[27] And what's fantastic about this is it has virtually nothing to do with his life in the NBA.

[28] It's all about the road up to getting drafted in the NBA.

[29] And what a colorful, wonderful story with amazing perspective.

[30] Oh, yeah.

[31] I'm adding them to the guys that, like, I want to, you know, get close to.

[32] Yeah, me too.

[33] I know.

[34] We both do.

[35] Should we set up a triple date with them?

[36] Okay.

[37] I'll wear car hearts so that my crotch can't explode.

[38] Please enjoy Carmelo Anthony.

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[42] Well, you're catching us on a bad day.

[43] I'm going to be forthcoming with y 'all.

[44] Monica suffers from seasonal, effective mood disorder.

[45] The sun ate out.

[46] she's miserable.

[47] Self -diagnosed, but it's real.

[48] It's real.

[49] The struggle's real.

[50] Not a real thing?

[51] Well, if you're middle class, it's a real thing.

[52] It's a privilege disease.

[53] I never met anyone on my dirt road that had it, but.

[54] Yeah, so Monica's dealing with a real rough case of sad.

[55] I'm actually doing pretty good today.

[56] I kind of forced you to.

[57] Yeah, because you're in bad news.

[58] Because I was grumpy today.

[59] Carmelo, I'm grumpy today.

[60] I didn't sleep enough.

[61] and I'm a baby, if I wake up and I know I only slept six hours, it's like a self -fulfilling prophecy, like, oh, man, I'm going to be whooped all day, and then I just am.

[62] Oh, yeah, you don't want to do that.

[63] Are you religious about sleep?

[64] I prefer eight hours, but that's rare for me to get eight hours of sleep.

[65] Because just you're so busy, or it's hard for you to sleep more than eight hours?

[66] Well, it's just hard for me to kind of decompress a lot of times at night.

[67] I find it hard of just shut my mind down because there's always something.

[68] going on and I'm trying to like structure my next day and what I'm going to do, how I'm going to do it.

[69] And I get a call from the team and say detour.

[70] It's just, it's a lot of things that goes into play.

[71] So falling asleep is the struggle.

[72] Staying asleep is a struggle.

[73] That's my favorite.

[74] So what I like to do, Mr. Anthony, is I like to wake up at about 3 a .m. and spend 45 minutes obsessing about something that when I wake up, I don't even care about.

[75] Like, but at 3 in the morning, something has got to be done about something.

[76] And then when I wake up, I'm like, oh, I don't even care about that.

[77] I'll be asleep for a few hours.

[78] And then I wake up and just mull some things over.

[79] I do too.

[80] Yeah, yeah.

[81] How old are you?

[82] Are you 36?

[83] 37.

[84] 37, Monica, that's a stone throwaway from your age.

[85] Yeah.

[86] Monica's turning 34 this week.

[87] Oh, congratulations.

[88] Happy birthday.

[89] Thank you.

[90] She made it.

[91] I made it to 34, the ripe age.

[92] So wait, you're in L .A. We really should have done this.

[93] Other than the fact that I don't like to be in pictures with people taller than me, it would have been great to have you.

[94] In person.

[95] We'd have been sitting down in the chairs, so we'd have been good.

[96] But at the end, we take one picture outside, like standing next to each other, and I would have looked like a...

[97] You would have been embarrassed.

[98] It would have been hard for me to post that.

[99] How tall are you?

[100] I'm 6 '8.

[101] Yeah, that's respectable.

[102] That's a real height.

[103] Can you imagine us next to each other?

[104] I'm five feet.

[105] I'd live for that photo.

[106] It's not that bad.

[107] It's not that bad.

[108] It's cool.

[109] Have you ever seen that picture of Shaq and his girlfriend?

[110] I don't know if there's still boyfriend girlfriend, but he had a girlfriend for a moment that she couldn't have been more than 311 or he's just that tall.

[111] But it looked insane.

[112] Like he was out with his grandchild.

[113] I loved it.

[114] I was like, go get him.

[115] He's like that with everybody.

[116] Yeah.

[117] Yeah, I guess I felt that way when I stood next to him.

[118] And how many years have you been here?

[119] Just this year?

[120] No, I've been in L .A. since 2008.

[121] Oh, no shit.

[122] Yeah, so I've been here for a while.

[123] So if you've been here for that long, were you always like, God, I hope I get on the Lakers?

[124] I've never really thought about it.

[125] This was just a place that I come live here in the summertime that I can go back to whatever my respective city is.

[126] Yeah.

[127] And then luckily, the Lakers must have been looking for, like, a local hire.

[128] They didn't want to pay, like, a relocation fee.

[129] They didn't want to give you $2 ,800 to get a moving truck.

[130] So they saved a couple bucks.

[131] That's part of the collective bargaining agreement.

[132] Yeah, I bet they went into Jeannie Bus's office and they're like, all right, got good news and bad news.

[133] Bad news is we took it right in the ass on his fee, but great news, silver lining, no relocation fee.

[134] No relocation fee.

[135] So they could save that on the bottom line.

[136] That's right, a big, big deduction.

[137] So I didn't read your whole book, but I read the proposal for your book.

[138] And immediately I was like, mind you, this is a. bad habit of mine.

[139] I feel like I relate to everybody, but here's what I said.

[140] Here's a dude who's 6 -8, Olympian, black.

[141] What on earth could I have in common with this guy?

[142] And then one of the very first lines I read is this line that says, I wanted to talk to my mom about the killings, but she was from a different generation and tired from holding down two jobs so we could eat.

[143] I didn't want to add to her struggle.

[144] And I was like, oh my God.

[145] That was my fucking life.

[146] My life was single mom, three kids.

[147] She's working as a janitor.

[148] I'm not dare asking for shoes.

[149] My brother wanted shoes and he wanted jeans.

[150] And I was like, I don't want anything.

[151] I'm not going to bring up anything ever.

[152] I'm just now at 46 realizing all the fallout of that, which is like the way I show somebody I love them is I'm not a pain in your ass.

[153] I will not be a burden to you.

[154] I will not ask you for shit.

[155] I'll handle my stuff.

[156] That's how I show you.

[157] I love you.

[158] And then my wife's like, let me do things for you.

[159] I'm like, no, no, don't do shit for me. I don't want anything done for me. Like, that would be me saying I don't value you or love you.

[160] And it's really fucked up, like, her love language and mine.

[161] And I'm like, oh, wow, that's just one of many outcomes of having that scenario as a kid, like single mom that's fucking killing herself.

[162] And you actually don't feel entitled to have any needs or wants or anything.

[163] Or at least that was my experience.

[164] Well, I needed a lot of shit growing up.

[165] Like, I needed it, I need it, and I wanted a lot of shit.

[166] So what I wanted, then always add up to what I needed.

[167] So it was just more like, this is my environment.

[168] This is everyday for me. Seeing different people, seeing fights, seeing people get shots, and police chasing people and car chases.

[169] It's like drugs.

[170] This is my everyday life.

[171] So going to vent to my mom about it at that point of time, it was just like, I'll deal with it.

[172] it on my own.

[173] Like, I see it every day, so I don't want to burden her.

[174] I know she's working two jobs seven to nine every day.

[175] So at 7 a .m. and 9 p .m. every day with a one hour break to go from one job to the other.

[176] So I didn't want to burden her.

[177] She knew the environment we was in.

[178] That's why I think she really started working the way that she was doing because she understood that, that environment that we was in.

[179] Do you think you were smart and savvy enough as a little kid to go like, oh, if I bring up the problems associated with where we're living, she's going to feel guilty?

[180] No, she knew.

[181] I mean, she knew what time it was.

[182] She knew what Baltimore was when we left from New York.

[183] I didn't know it.

[184] I thought the grass was greener going to Baltimore, but she knew, like, we leave in one trench to another trench.

[185] Like, we got to, we're in the bunker right now.

[186] So we're going to make way.

[187] We're going to make do.

[188] We got family here.

[189] that I was only supposed to go to Baltimore for that summer.

[190] Yeah, so you originally were born in Brooklyn.

[191] You lived there to what you were eight.

[192] Yeah, like eight, nine, yeah.

[193] And there you lived in the Red Hook projects in Brooklyn.

[194] But just going from Red Hook to Baltimore, for me, it was just like, damn, I'm getting out of a two -bedroom, three -bedroom project apartment with eight people in the house to, I'm going to Baltimore.

[195] Now I'm in the road house.

[196] We got row houses in Baltimore, so you go to a row house now.

[197] You got a small backyard, you got a basement, you got upstairs, downstairs.

[198] So it was things that was a lot different, but in retrospect, it was the same thing.

[199] We was just living on a different roof.

[200] It is funny.

[201] Did you have the experience?

[202] Like, when I was 18, I left Detroit, went on a road trip, got to L .A., first stopped me and my best friend Aaron, we're like, we got to go to South Central.

[203] So we go to South Central And we're from Detroit The Detroit is fucked up too So Detroit Totally So when you go to South Central Like I'm picturing Something really intense And I get there I'm like Oh this is where Ice Cube live Like 2 ,000 square foot House with a big yard This looks on the surface Like oh this isn't bad at all But as you say It's just all the same shit It's just in a different shape Yeah it's a different shape Eastern West is a lot different from a fabric standpoint, from a look standpoint.

[204] I would say Detroit and Baltimore look very similar.

[205] Both beautiful cities, both soulful at the core, music, culinary, food, culture.

[206] That's what Baltimore is known for, jazz, right?

[207] Detroit, the same way.

[208] Detroit has the same type of fabric in aesthetics.

[209] It's just Baltimore, man. When you look at a TV show like The Wire, that's what you get when you actually go there and see that place and see that city.

[210] It's the same feel.

[211] When I watched The Wire, first of all, I fucking loved it.

[212] It's probably tied for my favorite show of all time.

[213] I mean...

[214] I like that.

[215] I like that.

[216] Yeah, it's incredible.

[217] But when I watch it, I was like, it feels like they must have got this really accurately.

[218] When you watched it, did you feel like, oh, my God, they did it.

[219] Like, that's what it was.

[220] Well, it came in waves, but the first wave was like, forget whether it's right and exact.

[221] They're shooting a show about my neighborhood, about my neighborhood.

[222] blog about my city, we riding and dying with this.

[223] It was that.

[224] And then it, as it started making this way, it's like, you got to put the right people in there.

[225] You got to put some locals in there.

[226] You got to make it feel authentic.

[227] But I think the writing behind the wire is what really made it authentic, because it was a real actual factual case.

[228] Those names that's in the wire are real names.

[229] Now, they mix and match the name to person a little bit.

[230] Yeah.

[231] But being a Baltimore and coming from there and understanding that story, when I watch it, I know the real names that go with the faces, right?

[232] So it's like, ah, that's not, you know, he's supposed to be him.

[233] He's supposed to be him.

[234] So that was my only rebuttal about that.

[235] I got a hunch, Stringer Bell wasn't half as handsome as Idris Elba.

[236] And I bet Omar wasn't as charismatic as Michael K. Williams.

[237] So Omar, like me personally, we would see every day.

[238] The real Omar.

[239] Omar coming.

[240] And it was that same energy, that same behavior.

[241] Like, when you see him, you just know going to house or get the fuck away or stay out of his way, right?

[242] You laugh about it.

[243] It's like, oh, that's him.

[244] Well, that's him.

[245] And it's, you know, oh, look, who's coming around the block.

[246] And you laugh about it.

[247] But now that I'm older and I can have time to reflect back on those times, it's like, what was I doing?

[248] Like, why was I even out there?

[249] What was I trying to do?

[250] Let's get into that.

[251] Because the other thing I thought when I was reading your shit, was, I got to be honest, it took me becoming an adult in, like, moving to L .A. and making friends that weren't from where I'm from.

[252] So I don't have your story at all, but I have the white trash version.

[253] So, like, mobile homes, fucking alcoholism, just violence, nonstop, parents beating each other.

[254] Always carnage.

[255] Any given day you were hanging out in Roe Lake neighborhood.

[256] Someone's walking down the street bloody because something happened in a house.

[257] And by the way, no clue that that's not how everybody was growing up.

[258] It's not until I got here.

[259] I started learning about other people's backgrounds and their families and this and that, where I was like, oh, all that stuff I thought was kind of normal.

[260] Not so normal, but you've got to leave there almost to recognize that, don't you?

[261] And the thing I can relate to is, like, being terrified of the violence and super drawn to it and trying to establish my own place in this hierarchy of violence, like it bound me and my friends together because we were all scared together and together we felt safer.

[262] There's all these things that are also really cool about it or that I loved about it.

[263] Yeah, for me, I was a product of my environment, and I really saw nothing wrong with it.

[264] Right.

[265] Like, I tell the story to people all the time.

[266] Like, I struggle, my friend's struggle, my neighbor struggle, people in the neighborhood struggle.

[267] Everybody was dealing with the same shit.

[268] Not knowing what to eat, we got a shit full, go knock on the door next door.

[269] Can I get a couple slices of bread?

[270] Can I get some sugar?

[271] Can I get some salt?

[272] Can I borrow a cup of rice?

[273] Whatever it was, we all was dealing with the same thing.

[274] So we relied on each other, which brought the community together, because we knew we had each other back.

[275] If I needed something, I knew I could come to you, and vice versa.

[276] And the community started to grow with that.

[277] I think that's why, to this day, I always like to go back to my community because I get the sense of why me?

[278] How the hell did I make it out of this shit?

[279] because this was very, very difficult.

[280] But I also get a sense of, like, survivor's remorse, too.

[281] Like, I'm out, but I wonder what they're thinking about me. Should I leave them?

[282] Are they ready to go with me?

[283] Are they on the same page with me?

[284] You start dealing with all of that stuff, and the minute that you start second -guessing and doubting a lot of things, a lot of shit get messed up.

[285] So I try to get rid of kind of that survivor's remorse.

[286] But I also keep a lot of me tapped into those areas and those neighbors and those people because even though I'm in the corporate world and I'm doing my thing and I'm in a whole other planet and away from that, I still need that.

[287] Like, that fuels me. That keeps me going.

[288] That keeps me motivated, knowing that that's where I came from.

[289] Okay, I'm going to run a hypothetical by you.

[290] So this is something my wife can't relate to, but I got a hunch you would have been having a good time too.

[291] So I'm in 7 -Eleven the other day in Hollywood and a dude comes in just boxer shorts and he's screaming that he wants some ketchup.

[292] You assholes will never give me ketchup and shit starting to come to a boil, right?

[293] And they got the two guys behind the counter that they're going to confront this dude by themselves.

[294] And I'm kind of watching like, oh, am I going to get involved at some point if the dude in boxers gets the upper hand against these two dudes at work at 7 -Eleven that I like?

[295] Anyways, my wife sees a dude come out of the 7 -Eleven with boxer shorts on and he's screaming asshole.

[296] And then I come out and I have this big, shitting, grin, smile on my face.

[297] And I get in the car, she goes, what happened?

[298] And I go, oh, my God, it was so wonderful.

[299] This guy's screaming, you fucking assholes, just give me catch up.

[300] And these guys are saying, we're going to shove this broom up here.

[301] And I'm just elated, like, I'm awake.

[302] And I thought to myself, yeah, I enjoy those situations.

[303] Chaos.

[304] Chaos.

[305] Just because, like, it feels familiar.

[306] Like, oh, what's going to happen?

[307] Who are we going to be laughing at in a couple hours?

[308] It's very familiar.

[309] When those things happen, it might not happen for so long in your life, being where we at in our lives right now, we might not see a lot of that.

[310] But when we do, that's why you felt the way you felt because it took you back to that moment where you were seeing that every day.

[311] You was very familiar with those environments and those type of people and how those things transform.

[312] So I understand it.

[313] It's things that I see now just like, like I know what's going to happen and I know how it's going to go down.

[314] Like I know what's going to be sad.

[315] I know who will come back later.

[316] Like these are things that just my instinct from being in that and understanding that world, my instincts put me right back to that.

[317] Yes, like, yeah, the ability to predict almost exactly what's going to happen.

[318] I guess it's part of the thrill of it.

[319] And then also just, you know, when you're a kid and all that stuff's happening, it's terrifying, but there's adrenaline.

[320] And then I think that's the thing I miss. It's like, oh, shit, like something real is going to happen.

[321] At the end of this whole encounter, there's going to be a story.

[322] Someone's going to be a legend.

[323] Someone's going to be the fool.

[324] Like, it's all kind of just playing out in front of you.

[325] And, yeah, I guess you can kind of get used to that adrenaline and it can be exciting.

[326] And then you recognize, like, oh, it's also, you know, comes with all this terrible stuff.

[327] I don't know what your stuff is, but I just have reactions to things where I have to recognize.

[328] Like, oh, yeah, yeah, because I'm still acting like I live there and I don't.

[329] Like, along being in those environments, it was also a lot of good shit that came out of that, too, right?

[330] How to survive.

[331] Like, when you people hear survival, it's always like a bad thing.

[332] I had to really survive and struggle to get, no, when you learn how to survive in those type of environments, the world become easy to navigate because there's nothing in the world that you're going to see that can compare.

[333] Those things don't happen in other places unless it's those type of environments.

[334] So the funny thing is I look back and I'm like, I was 12, 11, 13, like, dealing with this shit.

[335] So I look at 13 -year -olds today who may be in similar situations that I was in back then and I'd be trying to figure out what to say to them or how to say it.

[336] But it's like, no, you gotta be direct.

[337] You got to be straight up.

[338] You got to be honest with these kids today because that's what they want.

[339] They're not going to tell you that's what they want, but that's really what they want because that's the code that they live by.

[340] They live by truth and honesty and loyalty, loyalty, and you ride it with me or not.

[341] And my brother's keeper, that's the gold.

[342] That's the cold today.

[343] And there's always been the cold.

[344] Yeah, and you're asking these kids, again, like, I have no idea what advice I'd give myself as a kid, because I wouldn't have listened.

[345] I'd have been like, listen, somebody like, I don't want to hear that shit, man. Hey, old dude, go hang out with your age or something.

[346] You're asking the kids to make a sacrifice today that'll give them a reward, but it'll give them a reward in a world they don't know.

[347] So, like, you're basically going like, this will be so great, and you're like, that world doesn't exist.

[348] So I know what the hierarchy of status is in my world, and I just want that status.

[349] That's all any of us want.

[350] So you're asking me to, like, buy into a whole different set of values and status, and it's a tough sell, I think.

[351] Well, because those values don't go along with the values that you're comfortable with and you're used to.

[352] The street values, and those values are, I would say those are some of the.

[353] most strongest values that any person can have.

[354] When you really think about the values of what it takes to be in the streets.

[355] And I wasn't in the streets as far as hustling and selling you.

[356] I didn't do that.

[357] But I was in the streets.

[358] That makes sense.

[359] I learned how to survive.

[360] I learned what was right and what was wrong.

[361] I learned what path that I had to take.

[362] And I learned how to take that road down.

[363] And it was a lot of bumps and bruises and ups and downs.

[364] But I learned how to get on that path, stay on that path.

[365] path and for the most part like my values and my code from living in that it makes my life a lot easier when I'm dealing with business transactions and I'm talking to people and I'm dealing with I'm in these meetings like I can sit there and hold those conversations knowing that at the core of myself these are my values if you're loyal to me I'll be loyal to you right I'll let you shoot yourself in the foot I don't judge anybody you do what you want to do say what you want to say, I'm my own person.

[366] I'm secure with who I am as a man. And you do what you do until you start messing with me. That's how I operate.

[367] That's how I move.

[368] And I give everybody a chance.

[369] And I'm sure my team is probably like, yeah, don't give everybody a chance.

[370] But I like to give everybody an opportunity to show me what they're about.

[371] And your true colors have come out.

[372] I always say people's true colors have come out in the times where, you know, you know, you're not.

[373] You know, you're you at least expect it.

[374] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

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[390] other thing that I feel like maybe we have some overlap is, so my dad didn't die, but he left at three.

[391] Your dad died at two.

[392] I had three stepdads in rapid succession.

[393] I liked the last one when I was older.

[394] He was great.

[395] He died recently, but did not enjoy the first two at all, nor do I think they enjoyed me. And did you have stepdads or a stepdad?

[396] I had a stepdad.

[397] Definitely had a stepdad.

[398] How was that relationship?

[399] A stepdad, stepdad, stepson relationship.

[400] Well, no, because you hear about dudes that are like, no, my stepdad's my real dad.

[401] I was saying, no, no, no. I was on the opposite side of that.

[402] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[403] He was an older cat, right?

[404] So he was a southern cat who was very blue collar, work hard, nobody did nothing for him, wouldn't let nobody give him nothing, no handouts, worked to his hands and feet bleed.

[405] Like, he was that.

[406] I like to describe him as James Evans' father on Good Times.

[407] Like, it was like, you know, that was him.

[408] So I respected him for that, knowing that no matter what, he was getting up every day, putting his hard hat on, putting his work belt on, getting his tools, going to work.

[409] I respected that.

[410] I didn't respect the fact that, for one, he used to always let it be known that I'm not his.

[411] Like, you know what I'm saying?

[412] Like, that's where it starts going left at.

[413] So as a young kid, I got to respect that.

[414] Like, I got to eat that almost because if my mother is saying it's right, then it's right.

[415] I don't got to listen to him, but my mother's telling me, you better be respectful.

[416] I'm going to be respectful.

[417] Until I get older.

[418] Now, when I start getting 13 and 14 and 15, I'm getting into high school, it's a different story now because I'm able to elaborate on a lot of my feelings at that point in time.

[419] So it's, nah, fuck that.

[420] You're not my father.

[421] Like, start getting rebellious at that point.

[422] Start causing a rift between me and him, me and my mom.

[423] I felt like she was taking his side.

[424] So it was a lot of that, man. Me and him didn't have the greatest relationship.

[425] I loved him.

[426] I loved them to death.

[427] I would never let nobody do anything to him, but we didn't have the greatest relationship.

[428] I don't know.

[429] Maybe it was because I wasn't his.

[430] You know what I'm saying?

[431] Like, I wasn't his or how I came about.

[432] Like, I don't know what the fuck was his issue with me, but I respected him to the point where you was the man of my household.

[433] Well, I can guess.

[434] Here's some hardworking dude, as you just described him, putting in the hours, not looking to be a star, He's got this stepson who plays basketball all day long.

[435] And this motherfucker thinks he's going to the NBA.

[436] He thinks he's hot shit.

[437] No, but see, not to cut you off.

[438] That wasn't never the goal.

[439] That never the thing for me. Like, NBA never was a dream of mine.

[440] Oh.

[441] So nobody in the house never heard me say, I'm going to make it to the NBA or I want to make it to the NBA.

[442] Oh, no kidding.

[443] It was just more like my mother gave him the power to look over me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[444] Like she vouched for, even when I got mad, and I used to come to her, she was still vouched for him.

[445] So that gave him the power to, like, I'm the man of this house.

[446] Yeah.

[447] That was the thing that I didn't like.

[448] I think it's hard enough to give that up to your biological dad.

[449] I think kids have a hard enough time just following their real father.

[450] So, yeah, then I think it's 20 times harder when you're like...

[451] A lot of things came from that.

[452] A lot of stressors came from that.

[453] A lot of just being rebellious and having this, like, fuck you.

[454] attitude.

[455] Like, I don't care what nobody's safe.

[456] I don't care what you say.

[457] You're not my father.

[458] Like, you had a stage when you start hitting his puberty, you start feeling stronger, your voice start cracking and getting deeper.

[459] And you just feel like, bro, you ain't going to keep talking to me like that.

[460] Right, right, right, right.

[461] Testosterone enters the picture.

[462] Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[463] Yeah.

[464] So when you moved to Baltimore at 8, I just need to throw this out here because it's so funny that you decided, like, Carmelo's not a tough name.

[465] And so everyone's going to know me as Tyrone Johnson, which the Tyrone I'm with, but the Johnson, I don't, Johnson feel, I mean, that could be said as a dick.

[466] I was really, that's a fact.

[467] That is a fact.

[468] But I'm in third grade, I'm coming from New York.

[469] Like, nobody knows who the hell I am.

[470] They just know a New York kid, New York family just move on the block.

[471] So I come to summer of 92.

[472] And And school starts in September.

[473] So I have two months to kind of like meet some people and hang out.

[474] And mind you, I'm eight, nine years old at this point.

[475] So when I get to third grade, first day of school, it's just like, you got to write your name on a little, on a white index card.

[476] And that whole summer, people was butchering my name.

[477] Like, it was just like caramelo and, you know, Camelo.

[478] And like, it was just like, they was butchering my name.

[479] Hi, can I pause you for one second?

[480] Yes.

[481] My name's Dax.

[482] No one ever heard that name.

[483] What the fuck is a Dex?

[484] Yeah, but Dax is cool.

[485] It's three letters.

[486] No, no, Carmelo, it is cool now, just like Carmelo's cool now.

[487] It was not cool in 1986 on the playground.

[488] Dax is three letters.

[489] You know, that's like a, you could say that's a nickname, Dax.

[490] No, every dude was like, oh, is that short for Dexter, point Dexter?

[491] And I'm like, oh, come on, man. No, it's an A. Carmelo wasn't short for anything.

[492] It's short for Carmelo Anthony Now It was like You know what is that Like it wasn't no nothing bad So was it It was just like I didn't like people fucking my name up At that point of time So right So the only people Who didn't know my name Was the teachers Like the kids The students knew my name Around the neighborhood But the teachers didn't know So I write the name Tyrone And I'm looking around I'm like I wouldn't last name I'm gonna go with And Because you're like, I'm going soup to nuts, not just the first name.

[493] I want a whole new...

[494] I got to go all the way.

[495] I have to go all the way.

[496] So I see the textbook, and it's like, Johnson is something textbooks or something like that.

[497] And I'm just like, Tyrone Johnson like that.

[498] I just wrote it down.

[499] I didn't think it would go that far the way that it went.

[500] Okay, so I just thought that was hysterical and pretty adorable that an eight -year -old was like, yeah, Tyrone Johnson.

[501] Nobody's fucking with Tyrone Johnson.

[502] No one is.

[503] No one is.

[504] Grown -ass man wouldn't fuck with Tyrone Johnson.

[505] I really like your sweatsuit.

[506] I like his whole thing.

[507] When he first sits down, he's good.

[508] I know this is his charm.

[509] He looks a little bit grumpy.

[510] And then he smiles and you're like, oh, this motherfucker's got a million -dollar smile.

[511] Yeah, it's true.

[512] I see your molars when you smile, dude.

[513] It's good.

[514] I'm a happy person.

[515] Yeah, yeah.

[516] I mean, this, yeah, he's a fox.

[517] Okay, so 13, you now recognize, Oh, you're starting to deal with depression, but I can't imagine at 13 did you have that awareness?

[518] Like, I'm depressed.

[519] Hell, no, not at all.

[520] You just know you have your moments of just like, you're sad and just, when you're trying to figure it out, you just feel stuck.

[521] Yeah.

[522] You know, you just don't want to go out the house.

[523] You just want to stay in the house.

[524] You want to listen to music.

[525] Don't cut the TV on.

[526] Just being the dark.

[527] Yeah.

[528] Depression.

[529] Yeah, I mean, I know that now.

[530] Right, right.

[531] Back then, when you're 13 and 14, your friends see that, like, man, get the fuck up.

[532] Come on, man, we're going outside.

[533] Like, you don't have no time to deal with that.

[534] And no one knows how to deal with it or how to even bring it up.

[535] Like, I didn't know how to bring it up because I didn't know what I was dealing with.

[536] I just knew this is the norm.

[537] This is what happens.

[538] This is part of being in this environment.

[539] Yeah.

[540] I didn't realize this until recently.

[541] Someone brought it up.

[542] Someone said to me, all my friends growing up, every kid was from a divorce house.

[543] And I went through my list of all my friends.

[544] And yeah, so I was attracted to other kids that.

[545] were going through, I guess, what I was, or I could relate to them in some way.

[546] Even to this day, my circle is the same guys.

[547] Since I was 8, 9, you're 10 years old.

[548] And to your point, we all gravitated towards each other because we all had the same story, single -parent house, whether it was your mother raising you or your father raising you or your grandmother raising you or your auntie raising you.

[549] Like, somebody was raising you singly.

[550] And nobody around me has.

[551] had both of their parents in the house, like no one.

[552] What siblings do you have?

[553] Do you have older brothers or sisters?

[554] So I have two brothers, two brothers, one sister on my mom's side.

[555] My sister passed.

[556] Today is actually her birthday, actually.

[557] You're kidding me?

[558] Yeah, it's crazy that I'm doing this.

[559] I ain't put the two and two together.

[560] Then I have four sisters on my dad's side.

[561] Okay.

[562] My dad was a Puerto Rican, so he was the Rolling Stone.

[563] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[564] wherever he laid his hat he called home absolutely absolutely the brothers were they older than you i'm the youngest out of nine god damn okay because i was going to say another thing i really looked to my friends for again this all shit i know now i didn't know it then but what i really was looking for from them was i wanted some male approval and i just wondered were you looking for your clues on how to be a man from your friends No, I mean, it was just like I knew they held me down I hold them down and we go, we support each other through thick and thin like, we're going to fight, we're going to fuss, we're going to argue, but at the end of the day we're going to do what we got to do to support one another.

[565] So I wasn't looking for approval from them.

[566] When I got it though, it was an extra pump and extra validation.

[567] Yeah, when your dudes look up to you as a kid, those moments where they're like, oh shit, he did that.

[568] That, to me, That was everything.

[569] I didn't get that until later.

[570] You started slamming on dudes?

[571] Yeah, it's just like, you know, yo, man, when you was going back in this, when you was here, like you start hearing those stories, which is part of the reason why I really wanted to start writing the book, because when you start hearing stories from other people and experiences from their perspective, it checked your perspective.

[572] Like, damn, was I really going through this for real?

[573] Or is that story right what I was telling?

[574] So I had to really go through that process to kind of fact -check a lot of the things that I was talking about.

[575] Okay, so the part I wanted to explore a little bit was you went to this private school for three years.

[576] And then in your senior year prior to the school you're starting, someone at the school, some faculty was like, so you're going to spend your summer scrubbing the floors of this place, getting it all tidy.

[577] First of all, I didn't even think what they was going to have me doing was legal.

[578] I doubt it is.

[579] I didn't even think you can give somebody detention in the summertime.

[580] Like, I never heard.

[581] I never heard of that shit before.

[582] So I went to Catholic school by the name of Towson Catholic.

[583] It's closed now.

[584] Because you didn't clean the floors.

[585] The floors got so fucked up.

[586] I didn't clean the desk and I didn't fix the books.

[587] But I'm there.

[588] And as I'm starting to grow from a basketball standpoint and that the notoriety start to grow, I think it was too much for the school, right?

[589] I think it was too much for the archdioces.

[590] Like, it was just, it was too much cameras and in the school and media calling, wanting to speak.

[591] And I wasn't big on the media and things like that.

[592] I would, like, deny it and decline it.

[593] But it was just there.

[594] They was outside of school every day.

[595] And playing in the games, it was all the media and everybody's coming.

[596] So, yeah, on one hand, it was great.

[597] It was positive for the school and us to represent that.

[598] But I think it was because of where I was coming from.

[599] Right.

[600] It was like, I wasn't clean cut in the school.

[601] Was it a mostly white school, I can assume?

[602] It was a mostly white school, and most of the black people was on the boys and girls' basketball team.

[603] And that's who you saw every day.

[604] That's who you was hanging around.

[605] So, again, it was like hierarchy.

[606] Like, I come from the bottom.

[607] I want to have to get to school every day on the subway and the buses.

[608] And I'm busting my ass trying to get here.

[609] So work with me if I'm 30 seconds late.

[610] I'm a minute late.

[611] Like, just work with me. You got to understand that.

[612] I'm not making no excuses of why I wasn't on time.

[613] But what I'm trying to say is, one minute, two minutes, knowing my situation, knowing when I come from.

[614] My mother ain't dropping me off at school.

[615] You know, I don't have nobody to do that.

[616] I got to rely on public transportation to get here on time.

[617] What if the buses is late?

[618] What if it's snowing and everything is off?

[619] You got to detour.

[620] You don't know what's going to, what happens.

[621] So a lot of that stuff started to build up.

[622] and detention started coming and they started threatening games and they started threatening me and then they kicked me out because I wouldn't come back in the summertime to scrub the tables.

[623] Okay, so I have three takes on this.

[624] Okay, number one, if I'm being generous to them, they decided, oh, we got to teach this kid character.

[625] We got to teach this kid humility.

[626] He's getting all this attention.

[627] We got to try to keep this kid humble.

[628] Without telling me. Of course, of course, because you're so stupid their guidance they're going to give you, they've got to trick you into getting.

[629] Absolutely, which goes back to where you're from, right?

[630] Yeah, you're a piece of shit and you're a loser and we're going to teach you how to be a good person.

[631] Number two, I would say what's really going on is they are benefiting from you.

[632] So they are succeeding as a team.

[633] They're getting their credentials on your back and they hate that they resent you for that they fucking hate everything they got's riding on this kid and they resent you and I think there's this crazy dynamic that exists where they do invite these black players in from the inner city they're like oh we're giving you the world look at this education you're getting you should be so fucking grateful you should be asking us how to improve as a human being all the time but no we're going to have to show you I think it's that well it could be that's one explanation Yeah, it could be.

[634] But I also know that it was a lot that came into play with that, right?

[635] The fact that it was a Catholic school, it's super clean cut.

[636] The fact that I challenged that.

[637] I challenge the status quo.

[638] And I used to question a lot of things that I was being taught or they was teaching us.

[639] What they give you in Catholic school, dealing with Catholicism, that's what you're going with.

[640] You can't challenge that.

[641] Catholicism works best when people don't ask any questions.

[642] So that's why they had the class at 8 o 'clock in the morning because they wanted you to be quiet.

[643] When you challenge that, you're made out to be an outcast.

[644] You're made out to be somebody who's just being disrespectful to the actual religion.

[645] Right.

[646] And it wasn't me being disrespectful.

[647] It was just my mom's was a deaconess in the Baptist church.

[648] So I'm getting lessons from her on one hand.

[649] I'm coming here and there's something totally different.

[650] And it's like, I'm confused.

[651] I know my mother ain't going to lie to me. You understand?

[652] So I started asking questions.

[653] I started challenging the status quo.

[654] I started challenging the textbooks.

[655] When you got to write the essays and just from your perspective, a lot of mine was questions.

[656] On the test, if it was a question to write an essay or something I had to do, I'm asking these questions.

[657] Why this and why that?

[658] And who said this and who make, like, they hated that.

[659] Yeah.

[660] But can I hit you?

[661] with a theory real quick.

[662] Sure.

[663] I will not do anything unless I understand it and I can get on board with it.

[664] But I now recognize it's because, like, I was molested as a kid.

[665] I had all this violence.

[666] I know people have ulterior motives.

[667] I learned the hard way.

[668] And I know a lot of people aren't looking out for my best interest.

[669] So I do some fucking exploration.

[670] I ask a few more questions.

[671] I need to know what everyone's getting out of everything before I feel comfortable.

[672] Right.

[673] So you're coming from a world where your survival, I'm guessing, depends on you asking some questions.

[674] Is this dude trustworthy?

[675] Should I listen to this?

[676] Should I follow these guys there?

[677] Like, you're in that mode for survival.

[678] It all comes back full circle because I'm coming from one environment and I'm going to a totally different environment.

[679] And I'm trying to take my morals and my cold and my values from this environment and bring them, which causes me to, start questioning a lot of things, start questioning a lot of people.

[680] Like you said, people motives.

[681] I can't tell you to this day what was the vice principal motive towards me. And I shouldn't have to think about that.

[682] As a student, y 'all shouldn't have to come to school like, man, so as I walk in the door, man, he gonna say something to me. I'm rushing to the bathroom to make sure my tie is right.

[683] You're making sure my hands patted down, making sure I got the right shoes on, making sure my belt is proper.

[684] That's a lot when you gotta go to school.

[685] School's supposed to be fun.

[686] He's supposed to come learn, be around friends and going to class and...

[687] Shoot the shit with some ladies.

[688] You start shooting the shit and you start figuring out.

[689] You start figuring out things about yourself.

[690] It shouldn't be stressful with me coming to school every day.

[691] And after first period, every single day, Carmelo Anthony, please come to the vice principal office.

[692] I got tired of hearing that fucking name, to be honest with you.

[693] Well, hence, you trying to make it Tyrone.

[694] He just got played out on that intercom.

[695] That C was planted.

[696] and being in the third grade.

[697] Okay, now it's time for like some personal responsibility.

[698] So if I were you and I know when someone's got a hustle that involves me, I would have entered that situation with a little chip on my shoulder going, we all know why I'm here.

[699] You're using me for this, which is cool because I'm going to use you for that.

[700] But I'm on to you.

[701] So I personally would have kind of entered with a little chip on my shoulder.

[702] I know why I was there.

[703] I was there for basketball.

[704] I wasn't there to learn about religion.

[705] I knew I had to do my schoolwork in order for me to play, but I was there for basketball.

[706] So this is all new to me, learning about theology and religion.

[707] But you're not learning about it.

[708] It's pounded on you.

[709] Yeah.

[710] You're not engaging with it.

[711] It's just being downloaded.

[712] It's just being downloaded.

[713] It's like, take this and it's just, every since those moments, it was just like, I don't know if this is for me. Like, I got too many questions.

[714] If I got this many questions about something, it ain't for me. And at that moment, that's when I started to, like, do my own research.

[715] Like, I started observing more and listening and watching and reading because I just couldn't deal with it.

[716] I had my own shit going on, going back home, not knowing what was going to happen, looking over my shoulder every single day, my own struggles to going to school, thinking that this was my outlet because of basketball.

[717] And it wasn't an outlet.

[718] One thing from earlier in the conversation, it just made me curious.

[719] Have you watched Michael Vick 30 for 30?

[720] Absolutely.

[721] Oh, I love that one so much.

[722] One of the best ones.

[723] Yeah, and I could feel that moment where he's taking his boys with him on the ride because he's a good dude.

[724] And then the dudes just aren't elevating with him to where he's going.

[725] That was the survivor's remorse.

[726] Yes, yes.

[727] And then the friction of like, oh, you've changed.

[728] I haven't.

[729] That whole thing just really hit home to me. That made me think of it.

[730] You saw it.

[731] That's good.

[732] I didn't really have a question other than, did you see it?

[733] Did you like it?

[734] Did you relate it?

[735] I'll do it.

[736] Yeah, I mean, I related because you come from those environments and the minute that you step foot into another environment that looked down upon that environment, you're not supposed to look back.

[737] You're supposed to leave them where they're at.

[738] You're supposed to go.

[739] You're supposed to, you know, You made it.

[740] Get out of there.

[741] Don't go back.

[742] But in all actuality, it's reversed.

[743] I think it's a double whammy because also your boys from home are almost waiting for you to change.

[744] Or at least in my experience, they're looking for it.

[745] In my experience, personally, and I only can speak on things that I've been through, my crew, we grew together.

[746] Like, we all had the same issues.

[747] You know, so it was like I wanted to see them succeed more than they wanted to see themselves succeed.

[748] So it would be to them, though, he's changing or he this and he that.

[749] But that wasn't really the case.

[750] I was just bringing you along.

[751] We're going to figure it out because we always figure this out.

[752] Yeah.

[753] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[754] What made me think of 30 for 30 is I think it was the Alan Iverson one I watch where he kind of got protected by his neighborhood.

[755] Like people were like, don't let him get in the mix.

[756] I was going to ask if you had any of that.

[757] We're like, did anyone look out for you?

[758] It's the same thing.

[759] And again, things are different now.

[760] The communities are not protecting their people anymore.

[761] That's from there.

[762] So I think then elderly people, right, neighbors, the older women on the block, your mom can leave you outside all day long, knowing that the neighbors and the grandmothers of the block was going to look after you.

[763] You know they was going to snitch on you if you did something bad, but you know you had somebody looking at it.

[764] after you.

[765] If your mother tell them he got to be in the house by 10 o 'clock, then 9 .58 come.

[766] They're calling you, they letting you know, Mello, it's time to get in the house.

[767] It's time to go in the house.

[768] So we had that protection.

[769] I had that protection from just friends in my neighborhood, the older guys, the older women, aunts, uncles, just family.

[770] They knew I was a ball player.

[771] They saw something to me before I did.

[772] I didn't believe it.

[773] They saw it.

[774] So I assume that's why they was, Mello, get your ass in the house.

[775] You better.

[776] not miss school.

[777] You better not cut class.

[778] You better go here.

[779] That was the support I had.

[780] It makes me think that we interviewed Chris Bosch and he was saying that his grandma lived like across the street and two houses down.

[781] So his dad made him wear a shirt and tied his school and he'd get on the bus and take it off.

[782] But his grandma would see him by the time.

[783] The bus got away from her house and she called.

[784] He took his shit off.

[785] He's in a t -shirt.

[786] That's how it was.

[787] That was their way of protecting you.

[788] The last school you went to for your senior year, Virginia, you were then at boarding school, yeah?

[789] Yeah, that was O 'Kill.

[790] It was in Mouth of Wilson, Virginia.

[791] I don't know where the hell that at.

[792] I don't know if you know what that said.

[793] I don't know if you heard of that shit, but Mouth of Wilson, Virginia, it's like down there in Virginia, but it's like Kentucky, Tennessee, Carolina, West Virginia.

[794] You're in the tip of all of that shit around you.

[795] So I could be in class and be in Tennessee.

[796] I could be in the basketball.

[797] I could be on a basketball court, and my phone would say Kentucky.

[798] Like, I could be at lunch, and it would be North Carolina or Virginia.

[799] You just don't know.

[800] My point of saying all of that is that's the mouth of Wilson, Virginia, right there.

[801] So then is that by the Blue Ridge Mountains?

[802] Yes.

[803] Oh, my God, is that beautiful there?

[804] I wish I'd have known that back then, because I'd have went over there a couple times.

[805] But I was in and out.

[806] Let me just say, A, what an incredible story.

[807] I'm so glad you're telling it, because people want to talk to you about basketball.

[808] You're perfect for this show because I don't ever want to talk to anybody about the thing they do.

[809] Good, because I don't like talking about basketball anyway.

[810] That's so fucking boring, yeah.

[811] We already know you're great at basketball.

[812] Yeah, you're great at basketball.

[813] Cool.

[814] But one thing you point out in the book, which I just put it in perspective, there are 541 ,000 high school basketball players.

[815] Yes.

[816] 541 ,000.

[817] Then there's 30 ,000 kids in college playing.

[818] then you got the whole world fucked out we won't even try to put a number on that and there's 453 players in the league and 60 players get drafted every year out of 513 ,000 and the cool thing he points out is you would think that's the miracle of his life yeah and it's not no the miracles that he made it through that childhood that's the one in 10 million that's profound yeah I like that a lot I'm going to close on something you're not going to like, but boy, did it make me and Aaron laugh.

[819] We've been laughing about this for the last 15 minutes.

[820] So I watch your announcement for your book on your Instagram, and it's so heartfelt, it's beautiful.

[821] We know this book is about coming of age and trauma and the real story behind the basketball legend.

[822] The first comment I read is, I want that long dick in my mouth, Daddy.

[823] Five eggplants, three squirts, three times.

[824] And 10 black hearts.

[825] This is from at lively underscore Tracy.

[826] Lively Tracy, God fucking bless you.

[827] And please be on my Instagram.

[828] No, no, stay away.

[829] That's ever written that on my Instagram.

[830] I think that was a bot.

[831] That was a bot.

[832] No, no, no, no. Lively Tracy is real.

[833] Don't break his heart.

[834] Do not break his heart.

[835] He wants to believe in Lively Tracy.

[836] In her response to your heartfelt book coming out is I want that long dick in my mouth, Eddie.

[837] And you know what, it made me happy, Carmelo?

[838] It makes me happy know that there's some women out there that are as big of pieces of shit as me and my male friend.

[839] So I found it very, like, somehow life -affirming and inspirational.

[840] I didn't see it, but I would say that I was a bot.

[841] No, At Lively is as real as it gets.

[842] At Lively underscore Tracy is the real deal, Carmelo.

[843] She's no bot, okay?

[844] Please hit up Dax.

[845] A bot doesn't know to write that.

[846] A bot's like, I'm lonely.

[847] What are you doing?

[848] Those are on my page.

[849] Those are bots.

[850] I want that long dick in my mouth, daddy.

[851] That's a human being with some needs.

[852] Anyways, I just, I wanted you to know that was on your comment section.

[853] It made my day.

[854] Hopefully it'll make yours.

[855] The comments is not for me. I don't look at it.

[856] Yeah, it's better not.

[857] Give me your signing information.

[858] I'm just going to, I'm going to heart it just so she feels encouraged.

[859] Let's just see what this blossoms into.

[860] Carmelo, you're a fucking great dude.

[861] Super fun talking to you.

[862] The smile is, my goodness.

[863] I gotta have you back for more.

[864] Yeah, yeah, we didn't have enough time.

[865] So we can talk about basketball.

[866] And I need to find out how I can get that sweatsuit.

[867] Monica needs that sweatsuit.

[868] What size?

[869] Extra small?

[870] Actually small.

[871] I keep that of mine.

[872] But make sure there's some room in the top, wink, wink, Carmela.

[873] Look at that.

[874] I got the full molars on that.

[875] Yeah, you did.

[876] From both of us.

[877] All right, man. I hope I run into you in real life.

[878] Good luck with the book.

[879] Oh, in the name of the book, I should have said that 20 more times, but I will in the intro.

[880] But where tomorrows aren't promised.

[881] Awesome name.

[882] Where tomorrow's aren't promised.

[883] Also, you have a podcast.

[884] What's in your glass?

[885] People can listen to that.

[886] Everywhere you listen to podcasts.

[887] So check out what's in your glass and also get where tomorrow's aren't promised.

[888] Like I said, I read a good chunk of it.

[889] And it's just beautifully written and so authentic and real.

[890] And for me, I just related a lot.

[891] And it follows, right?

[892] It's your story up until the day or draft.

[893] Yeah, because again, the concept behind it was I've never dreamt about being an NBA and playing an NBA.

[894] So my story is from May 29, 1984, the day I was born to, I think it was June 26, 27th of 2003.

[895] The moment that I shook David Sternhand, that's when the story goes off.

[896] I did that intentionally because I just felt like that was the story that everybody needed to know.

[897] people needed to know that story.

[898] And it wasn't so much of everything that I went through.

[899] It was just the mindset behind it and how walking up to David Stern and shaking his hand and hearing your name being called, I made it at that point.

[900] You could take everything away from me. I've made it at that point.

[901] So after that, I'm playing with the church's money at that point.

[902] So I made it.

[903] So I just really wanted to tell the story.

[904] I call it the in -between game, if it's a reference to basketball.

[905] Well, what I like about that is What's completely unrelatable is you being in the NBA.

[906] I don't know.

[907] I can't relate to that at all.

[908] I can't relate to how good you look in this sweatsuit.

[909] But I can relate to the other shit, and I think a lot of people can.

[910] I appreciate that.

[911] Yeah, yeah.

[912] So everyone should check that out again, where tomorrow's aren't promised.

[913] Get it, read it, enjoy it.

[914] Thank you so much, Tyrone Johnson.

[915] It's been a blast.

[916] And I'll respect you and call you Tyrone from now on.

[917] I know if you call me that, I know who it is.

[918] All right, man. Thanks, Monica, thank you.

[919] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Badman.

[920] I guess it was already obvious in the interview itself, but if anyone didn't put it together, this, of course, is the guess that caused your clothes to explode.

[921] That's right.

[922] Oh, my God, and I can see why.

[923] I wonder if it is obvious listening.

[924] I mean, I'm sure people put two and two together.

[925] Don't I bring up the fact that your boobs are out at the end?

[926] No. No. I do.

[927] No, we were done.

[928] Yeah, I'm done editing it.

[929] Oh.

[930] We were done.

[931] But he was still there.

[932] No. I think it was after he got off.

[933] It was.

[934] I was telling him that he should hook up with you and then I said, I mean, you dropped a button.

[935] That all happened in front of him.

[936] Buddy, we have audio evidence.

[937] Audio evidence.

[938] Yeah.

[939] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[940] How can my memory be so wrong?

[941] What happened at the end when I was asking him if?

[942] He wanted to make love to you.

[943] No, you didn't ask him that at all.

[944] You said, I said, I need to get that sweatsuit.

[945] And he said, what size?

[946] Uh -huh.

[947] And then I said, extra small.

[948] And he said, okay, extra small.

[949] And then you said, but leave room in the top.

[950] Okay.

[951] Yeah, and then everyone laughed.

[952] Okay.

[953] And that was that.

[954] Okay.

[955] That makes sense.

[956] I knew your boobs were a topic with him.

[957] They came up.

[958] Yeah, they came up.

[959] Well, they stay up, really, for now.

[960] Who?

[961] I think it was Sassy.

[962] Sassy was saying she didn't like her boobs or something.

[963] And I said, whose boobs do you want?

[964] And she's like, well, I don't really know who has great boobs.

[965] And I said, what about Monica's?

[966] She said, oh, Monica has great boobs.

[967] And I said, have you not listened to the podcast?

[968] That's all we talk about.

[969] And then so she went on Instagram and she did a lot of zooming in, like I knew and bathing suits and stuff.

[970] And she concluded, absolutely.

[971] That would be ideal.

[972] I feel violated a little.

[973] Oh, wow.

[974] Yeah.

[975] I mean, it feels good.

[976] This goes into like the difference between, well, I'm not going to say boys and girls.

[977] You and I for sure.

[978] I would love that.

[979] The notion that you'd have a dude that's like, I want shoulders.

[980] And I'm like, what about Dax's?

[981] And then he looked at me. He goes, oh, my God, those are the ones I want.

[982] That to me would be so positive.

[983] Sure.

[984] I'm not saying it's not positive.

[985] It's just a little uncomfortable thinking about someone zooming in on my boobs.

[986] Oh, when you post.

[987] on Instagram, do you not assume that that'll happen?

[988] No. I do because I know if I post a picture of me in the gym, many people will just circle in the fact that there's a box of tissues in the background.

[989] People are zooming in and they're looking at the full environment and they're like, why do you have so many tissues in the gym?

[990] Okay.

[991] And then I think about responding, I have a lot of allergies and my nose runs a lot, but then I don't do that.

[992] And then I guess they think in my absence of an explanation, it means I'm masturbating in the gym.

[993] Oh, okay.

[994] That's what the joke is about.

[995] Why do you have so many tissues in your journey?

[996] Got it, got it.

[997] And then I just let them, I guess, believe that.

[998] Okay.

[999] But you don't think people are going to zoom in when you...

[1000] Well, I don't...

[1001] I'm just not thinking.

[1002] I guess maybe they are, but I'm not thinking...

[1003] I never thought about that.

[1004] It's not on your radar.

[1005] No. Do you zoom in on people?

[1006] On Instagram?

[1007] How do you even zoom in on Instagram?

[1008] You have to screen shot it?

[1009] No. You just put your fingers on the picture and then spread it out and it zooms in.

[1010] On Instagram, you can?

[1011] Let me try.

[1012] Hold on.

[1013] Oh, yeah, it worked.

[1014] That's the first time you've zoomed in on Instagram?

[1015] Yeah, I've never done that.

[1016] Oh, my gosh, really?

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] You take it all at face value.

[1019] You're like, that's what I'm supposed to be seeing.

[1020] I do.

[1021] I'm not very observant, as you know.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] Wow, no zooming.

[1024] This is a huge revelation.

[1025] You think you know someone so well.

[1026] And then to find out you didn't know you could zoom.

[1027] On Instagram, I mean, I know you can zoom in on a picture.

[1028] And I've done that, but I just didn't do, I don't know.

[1029] You don't do that.

[1030] What's the percentage of people do you think who zoom in?

[1031] 90?

[1032] 80, 90.

[1033] Rob, you zoom in?

[1034] I know you can.

[1035] It's not something I often do.

[1036] But you do it.

[1037] I've done it before you.

[1038] Okay.

[1039] How often do you zoom in, Dax, on like a, let's say, how many out of how many pictures do you zoom?

[1040] Well, can we define it even?

[1041] More specifically, like not how many do I zoom in of the photos I'm scrolling through.

[1042] I don't think that would be a good metric.

[1043] But of the pictures I'm interested in and I actually open up and look at or scroll through the carousel, of those at least 60 % of the time I'm zooming in on something I want to see a little clearer in the photo.

[1044] Okay.

[1045] I'm curious to see, it'll be a great update to see how you like it because you're going to try it now a little bit, probably.

[1046] Maybe.

[1047] We'll see if it changes your experience on Instagram at all.

[1048] I should do it because I have terrible eyes.

[1049] That's exactly why I thought you'd be zooming a ton to be honest.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] Okay.

[1052] This might change everything.

[1053] How do you like my nails?

[1054] I got my nails done.

[1055] Oh, yeah.

[1056] Let me see, because they're really long.

[1057] Can you tell?

[1058] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1059] Hold them like that so I can see the length.

[1060] Yeah, they're long.

[1061] They're so long.

[1062] They're really, really long.

[1063] You don't like them.

[1064] That's okay.

[1065] You don't have to like them.

[1066] Okay, yeah, I would rather not lie to you.

[1067] Yeah, don't like.

[1068] I don't like.

[1069] I don't dislike them, but I don't like them.

[1070] To me, it looks like you're lazy and you don't work.

[1071] Like, I associate the impractic.

[1072] Yeah, that's what it triggers for me. That's a horrible.

[1073] Well, where I grew up, a lot of people had nails that were like a foot long, and they couldn't fucking do anything.

[1074] They'd be like a receptionist and they're trying to put a call through, and then they're trying to dial the numbers.

[1075] And the whole thing is just a big inconvenience.

[1076] So you'd be at the doctor's office and, like, it's slowing everything.

[1077] down these enormous nails.

[1078] You weren't designed to have five inch nails.

[1079] What do you think about that?

[1080] The truth is, yes, it's extremely hard to do anything with these nails.

[1081] I have had a very hard time in the last 24 hours, but I look great, so I'm happy.

[1082] But I think it's very offensive to assume someone's lazy because they have long nails.

[1083] Well, if they've rendered their hands useless, they're still doing stuff.

[1084] But the people I'm talking about growing up, they weren't really doing it.

[1085] They were fucking everything up.

[1086] It was taking way too long, all because they wanted these crazy long nails.

[1087] It takes a little extra.

[1088] And in fact, I have admiration.

[1089] I'm like, wow, they're really pushing through this nail issue to get their shit done.

[1090] Like me, today when I was editing, I was like, whew, this is slowing me down a little bit.

[1091] Exactly, slowing you down.

[1092] I'm pushing through.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] Because you can have it all as a woman.

[1095] That's a great takeaway.

[1096] I love your take on it.

[1097] Thank you.

[1098] How about this?

[1099] You show up to the tire place I took you.

[1100] And the mechanic that's going to be working on your tire has handcuffed his arms together.

[1101] Okay.

[1102] He can still do it.

[1103] I'm going to go to a different place.

[1104] Oh, I see.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] You're going to go to a different place.

[1107] But yeah, the guy could change your tire with handcuffed wrists.

[1108] But you're like, I don't want someone dealing with the added hurdle of working in handcuffs to do my tire.

[1109] I want them to be, like, fully capable to do it.

[1110] But an able -bodied person who purposely makes it harder for them to do their job, it's just a confusing thing, I guess, for me. Do you think I'm making a lot of enemies with this point in view?

[1111] Because you're kind of hot, I can tell under the collar.

[1112] Well, I feel like this is sexist, and I can't really fully articulate it.

[1113] So I'm having a hard time knowing how to respond.

[1114] But I do, I feel like there's something inherently patriarchal in this.

[1115] I can make the argument for you that I think would support that, which is society is demanding that women, you know, decorate their nails and pay attention and have that as some kind of accoutrema, their nails.

[1116] And because that's the role they're in, and then you're going to be judgmental of them of how they do their job once they're just abiding by the societal pressure to do the nails.

[1117] I think that's where it could be potentially be sexist.

[1118] But I don't want women to have long nails, nor do any of the men I know.

[1119] I think the women are driving the long nails.

[1120] Yeah, that's not my issue with it.

[1121] I think my issue is I should be able to have long nails and feel good about that and like them and not feel like it's silly.

[1122] Like I should still be able to be taken seriously with awesome nails.

[1123] Yeah, but you just said it made it harder to edit.

[1124] Yeah, but I did it.

[1125] It wasn't like I was like, well, I guess I can't.

[1126] No, I know, I know, I know.

[1127] And it took you more effort and longer.

[1128] So if I'm in a customer service situation and it has to take longer for me to get my appointment made for the dentist because that person has an aesthetic that is slowing them down, you can see what that's a little annoying.

[1129] I mean, I think there are probably some things that having a hugely muscular body, Prohibits.

[1130] Tell me. Walking through doors, small doors.

[1131] If you need to get something tiny under a, that fell under your chair, you can't get it.

[1132] Your hands are too thick.

[1133] So sure.

[1134] In that hypothetical, if I'm somewhere where a guy has gotten himself so enormous, he can't perform his job, I would be the first to say, well, dude, either you need a different career or this thing has gotten really in your way and now in my way.

[1135] If you've gotten your body so muscular, you can't perform your job as a mechanic.

[1136] You either need to give up being a mechanic or give up being muscular.

[1137] You can't have it all and then I pay the price as the customer.

[1138] I think people should be able to do what they want.

[1139] I do too.

[1140] I'm not asking to pass a law that you can't have long nails or that anyone can't have long nails.

[1141] I'm only being honest about the fact that when they're trying to dial a phone and they can't do it, I'm like, this is a little bit crazy.

[1142] We'll agree to disagree.

[1143] Okay.

[1144] Okay.

[1145] But I do think, can I suggest this?

[1146] You know, there was the whole period during the word Vogue, right, where what Vogue comes from is specifically comes from, I believe, the movement where women were overweight intentionally to demonstrate that they were of a status that they had ample food.

[1147] Because it was actually a display of wealth.

[1148] And so when I understand the fundamental reason that people would be attracted to that, that abhor bothers me. I'm like, I don't love the reason you're attracted to that because it represents wealth.

[1149] So similarly, I think having nails that are so preposterously large, it is sending a message I don't need to work.

[1150] Just, no. I just, I don't know how to, I know.

[1151] I know so many people with long nails who are extremely hard workers, including your wife, me, Laura.

[1152] I'm not talking about you guys.

[1153] You guys are both really, really hard workers.

[1154] I'm talking about the initial movement to have really long nails that make it impractical to do almost anything.

[1155] That to me seems like a statement of I don't need to do anything.

[1156] That's why I can have these.

[1157] What do you think of high heels?

[1158] You should be able to wear them if you want to wear them if it makes you feel good.

[1159] Absolutely.

[1160] Even if it slows you down or it hurts.

[1161] You'll never hear an argument for me that people shouldn't be allowed to do anything.

[1162] So that's not my position that people shouldn't be allowed to.

[1163] People should be allowed to wear stilts to work.

[1164] I mean they shouldn't get judged.

[1165] Not they shouldn't be allowed.

[1166] They shouldn't get judged for it.

[1167] I think people should be able to wear stilts to work.

[1168] If that's their jam, awesome.

[1169] Work in an office building and arrive on stilts.

[1170] But if the stilts are getting in the way, I can also observe, wow, those stilts are really causing you to be 10 minutes late because there's only stairs and no elevator.

[1171] You know, I'm just saying you can have like a logical breakdown of You can, but you're breaking it down logically and then skipping to something offensive, which is that they're lazy.

[1172] Then you're making an assumption about their entire character.

[1173] And I think that's the problem.

[1174] You can say, oh, that's a bit impractical.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] Because that's just an observation.

[1177] And I think the statement is, I don't actually need to have functional hands.

[1178] And that statement, to me, reads as lazy.

[1179] But no one is saying that by that.

[1180] You're deciding that it means that...

[1181] I'm questioning, do you think perhaps the root of it is similar to the root of heavy girls being in vogue because it represented they had a lot of extra wealth.

[1182] It is possible that the long nails thing was a similar statement.

[1183] And if that was, I could be totally wrong.

[1184] If the statement is, I don't work.

[1185] I'm not a laborer.

[1186] I can have these crazy long fingernails that are impractical, then I don't love that message.

[1187] Sure, but you're making that up.

[1188] I'm hypothesizing, which is what we do on this show.

[1189] Okay.

[1190] Okay.

[1191] If that's true, then that's fair for you to have an opinion on it.

[1192] Thank you.

[1193] That's all I'm saying.

[1194] I'm not calling any individual lazy, but I'm saying if there is an aesthetic statement, that really the underlying statement is I don't actually do manual labor.

[1195] I don't know that I love that.

[1196] And I would say that reads as lazy.

[1197] Okay.

[1198] I'm going to get into some facts.

[1199] Okay, great.

[1200] Shack's short girlfriend.

[1201] Yes.

[1202] Her name is Nicole Hoops Alexander.

[1203] Fuck yeah.

[1204] Hoops is a nickname?

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] Oh, that's great.

[1207] They're not together anymore.

[1208] But she, is 5 -2.

[1209] That's not that short.

[1210] It's not.

[1211] I mean, it's short, but it's not extreme.

[1212] Can I read you something?

[1213] Sure.

[1214] This is Wikipedia's artificial nails.

[1215] Artificial nails, also known as fake nail.

[1216] What?

[1217] I just wanted to see Rob's face for what was about to happen.

[1218] Okay.

[1219] Artificial nails, also known as fake nails, false nails, fashion nails, acrylic nails, nail extensions, or nail enhancements.

[1220] our extension's place over the fingernail, blah, blah, blah, history.

[1221] During the Ming Dynasty of China, noble woman wore very long artificial nails as a status symbol, indicating that unlike commoners, they did not have to do manual labor.

[1222] There you go.

[1223] So that is the exact root of the nails.

[1224] Okay.

[1225] And you think that is gross.

[1226] Kind of like feet minding.

[1227] Anything that is a statement that I either am rich or I don't need to work, Yeah, I object to those kind of aesthetics rooted in that.

[1228] But you don't object to the aesthetic of I'm powerful.

[1229] I'm strong?

[1230] Which is I'm powerful.

[1231] Which is I can overtake someone.

[1232] Well, yeah, we don't agree on that.

[1233] The goal is to look strong.

[1234] And for men's strength is a calling card of maleness, right?

[1235] Because of power.

[1236] Yeah, you're saying power.

[1237] I don't agree with power.

[1238] I think there's a lot of bodybuilders that don't feel like they have any power in the world and they can't sway anything, but they're strong.

[1239] They can lift stuff.

[1240] But I think there's a ton of muscle guys that feel very disempowered, socioeconomically.

[1241] But don't you think that part of what drives them to that profession is needing control and wanting to feel empowered and powerful?

[1242] I think a good percentage of the bodybuilders are people who are victimizes kids and they want to get so big, no one will ever harm them again.

[1243] I think that's the root of most of the bodybuilding, in my opinion.

[1244] I don't think they're power -hungry people.

[1245] I think they're scared.

[1246] And then I think there's like control freak segment of bodybuilding.

[1247] Like you're saying, the ultimate sign of controls, you can turn your body into something that was never designed to look for.

[1248] So I think people are drawn to it for control.

[1249] But I think largely it was people who felt vulnerable.

[1250] Yeah, I'm not making a judgment on the humans.

[1251] I'm saying that the aesthetic is presenting, I am strong and powerful.

[1252] That's what it, in my opinion, when I see someone who's very built, I think that.

[1253] I think of like Garcetti is powerful.

[1254] I think of like president, dean of UCLA is powerful.

[1255] I don't think when I see it at a baseball game, we saw one not too long going.

[1256] The four of us went the boys.

[1257] There was a guy who was like probably 290 pounds.

[1258] So when I see that guy at the game, I'm like, dude, that guy's fucking huge.

[1259] Of course, I'm drawn to looking at him.

[1260] But I also don't think that guy's powerful or succeeding or thriving or, you know.

[1261] So do you think the people who you see at the receptionist desk who have long nails are proving that they don't need to work?

[1262] They are working and they're trying hard and they're probably also insecure and want to feel.

[1263] I feel bad for those people.

[1264] And I feel that they are the victims of a. aesthetic that is saying that they have status.

[1265] So yeah, I feel bad that that is a marker of status in aesthetic in our culture.

[1266] And I'm questioning it at all times, just like high heels.

[1267] High heels are fucking ridiculous.

[1268] They're absolutely ridiculous.

[1269] That women would have to walk on an angle is so preposterous.

[1270] And it needs to be questioned, you know.

[1271] Now, if women want to wear them because they feel pretty in them, that's awesome.

[1272] I'm, again, I'm not proposing any laws.

[1273] I'm just, I think it's we do well to question why we are attracted to the things we're attracted to.

[1274] And when I think they're based in money fetishizing, I don't like them generally.

[1275] Yep.

[1276] That's on brand.

[1277] That makes sense.

[1278] Okay.

[1279] He said the term in between game.

[1280] And I tried to look it up, but it wasn't in the basketball glossary that I found.

[1281] So it might be a real deep cut.

[1282] I think he's referring to the game of life.

[1283] like to get through all those potholes over all those roadblocks growing up where he did that that was the big game or the game in between the real life game other than the basketball game like how do you get yourself successfully to each basketball game there's like a whole game for him to even end up there that's being played every time he's off the court which is managing that neighborhood managing other guys managing everything yeah what a story I love him when he would smile it felt so special he had a great Great smile.

[1284] Has.

[1285] A great smile.

[1286] It was, um, pyrotechnic.

[1287] It exploded your pants.

[1288] It did.

[1289] It sure did.

[1290] I couldn't find out if that girl was a bot.

[1291] Really, I just didn't want to do research because I thought, what if it put a virus on my phone?

[1292] Oh, that girl's definitely not a bot.

[1293] We went to her page.

[1294] How do we, you went to her, oh, yeah, Rob went to her page.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] And bots only have like nine pictures.

[1297] This woman's had a whole life for seven years on Instagram.

[1298] So it's not a bot.

[1299] Um, okay, that's all.

[1300] Oh, no. For Carmelo Anthra.

[1301] Well, good thing we argued about nails for so long.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] Good thing.

[1304] Bye.

[1305] Bye.

[1306] Bye.

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