Vincent D'Onofrio

[0] Hello, everybody.

[1] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2] I'm Dax Shepard.

[3] I'm here with my good friend, Manika.

[4] Padman.

[5] Padman.

[6] Sitting next to her just for no real reason is Dr. Drew who's going to join us for this introduction.

[7] Why not?

[8] Well, yeah, and I can't really say why you're here because I want this guest that was forthcoming to be a surprise.

[9] Such a surprise I came by to shake this guest hand.

[10] Yes.

[11] The guest that's coming today is so important.

[12] But anyways, that's not what we're here to talk about.

[13] It's not as important as the person we have on this episode.

[14] We are going to talk to maybe the world's most cuddly teddy bear, a film icon, an actor's actor, a sweet father, a sweet husband, and just a generally beautiful human being, Vincent DiNafrio.

[15] Some of you will recall he's on my wife's top five hall pass list.

[16] Absolutely.

[17] Top three, maybe.

[18] I think he might even be number one if we're all being honest.

[19] And I think you'll understand why when you hear him talk.

[20] He's just got this enormous heart to match his enormous stature.

[21] Yeah.

[22] He was lovely.

[23] Did you feel his rhythm?

[24] Did you lock eyes with him at any point?

[25] Not here in the interview, but we'll go back to the house afterwards.

[26] Did you connect with his eyes and feel that magic sparkle?

[27] Sure, a little bit.

[28] Yeah.

[29] He also revealed something during the interview that really skyrocketed him.

[30] him to the top of my list, too.

[31] You'll find that out in the fact check, guys.

[32] Okay, great.

[33] So please sit back and enjoy legend Vincent Donofrio.

[34] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[35] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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[37] Is it up to the dog or am I supposed to look at the dog or am I supposed to look at you?

[38] Yeah, this looks slightly to the left.

[39] That's like some kind of psych psychiatric.

[40] Yeah, the premise of the podcast is that you're having a conversation with that dog.

[41] I can wear a black cape over my face if that would help you.

[42] No, look, I know that I let me just, just hang on a second.

[43] Just back up a second.

[44] Okay.

[45] Like I know that I'm not the first one to ever say this because that would be stupid because you've had a lot of talented and hopefully intelligent people here.

[46] And, but the dog is weird to be like right above you like that.

[47] Has anybody ever mentioned it before?

[48] One other person.

[49] Ana.

[50] Ana Farris brought it up.

[51] Yeah.

[52] She got a little distracted by the dog.

[53] Well, it's, you know, honest, very intelligent woman.

[54] Uh -huh.

[55] And there's a fucking dog over your right shoulders.

[56] I never even notice it.

[57] I don't even know what that says to me that's the problem you know what it says you guys never noticed it so glad you came down to point this out um you know what it says to me though is that we have a similar eye because you're drawn to the dog and I picked that dog out as you might guess yeah no one knocked on the door and said uh free picture delivery I hope you like it I actually was online saw this just won a great dame of oil a fake oil painting of a great dame yeah okay wait it's also interesting that of all the things in this room that yeah you picked the dog we have some exposed wiring no door on the bathroom there's a lot happening in here and yeah no i heard about the no door in the bathroom thing i was ready for that yeah there's a lot to but i think that the thing the reason why the dog thing is so interesting is because it shows how stupid all you are in this room oh it does yeah it's because you you hadn't thought about it at all you So the brain deficiency in this room is like extreme.

[58] No, no, no, no. Listen to me. Let me tell you, that dog is so soothing to me. And I imagine.

[59] Well, your back is to it.

[60] Right.

[61] Believe me, I wish I were in your seat.

[62] Staring at the dog.

[63] Yeah, this is a gift I give to the gas.

[64] I want it right behind your head.

[65] But honestly, I'm so drawn to.

[66] It's going to drive me crazy.

[67] Is it really?

[68] It's going to make me saying, like, I'm going to kill myself.

[69] Do you want me to pull it down?

[70] No, no, I don't.

[71] But if it were behind your head, I'd have a, hard time staying connected with you.

[72] Right?

[73] I am so drawn to the photo of the dog.

[74] I'm so.

[75] You are.

[76] You are.

[77] Okay, good.

[78] So I think you used a really roundabout way to give me a compliment that you like the dog painting.

[79] Is that where we landed finally after all that?

[80] It's a priscruciating laborious.

[81] It's a print of an actual painting, right?

[82] It was very affordable if that's what you're getting at.

[83] Yeah.

[84] I think I'm 25 bucks all in on that with the frame.

[85] Can you imagine the guys who were at the printing house?

[86] Like, how many, how many, how do you think we should?

[87] you'd make.

[88] How many runs do you think we should do at this group thing?

[89] I don't know like two.

[90] The guy would say no I think like 500.

[91] No no no I think like two.

[92] Dach Shepherd want one.

[93] We'll get him one first.

[94] Because that one breaks we have an extra one for when it eventually breaks.

[95] Or actually to be honest with you I wouldn't mind having it more than one room.

[96] I know that's unconventional but I wouldn't mind if that every room you walked into in the house that migrate.

[97] Because a dog normally a dog would follow you in each room.

[98] Yeah.

[99] And since this one's obviously not going to do that, maybe I just have him everywhere.

[100] It reminds me of a zebra painting that my mom gave one of my sons.

[101] It was such an odd present because it was about three times the size of that dog.

[102] And it was basically, it could have been the same artist.

[103] It was like a jungle.

[104] Okay.

[105] But, you know, in the forefront, most of the frame was filled.

[106] by, you know, at the profile of a full zebra.

[107] Okay.

[108] And it's just standing, you know, like there.

[109] Right.

[110] It doesn't even have the same awesome expression as the Dane does.

[111] It had like a simple, like it was stuffed in a, like the old natural history museum.

[112] First they taxidermied it and then they painted it.

[113] And it's just a zebra and it's like we never knew what to do with it.

[114] Do you think that it was, she thought, oh, I'll let them fill in the blank.

[115] Like this will be a great picture to have because it'll make their imagination go wild.

[116] Like they can pretend either the zebra has been.

[117] captured or just had a birthday it's really up to them to fill in the blanks she didn't right she didn't realize that it evokes no thought right right well boy by the way now hindsight yeah yeah if it if it truly evoked no thought i would hang it again above my bed so that at night when my mind's racing i could check in with that dumb dumb zebra and just it'd be a blank slate and then i could maybe drift off to sleep.

[118] This is the longest delayed for me to say, welcome to the armchair expert, Vincent, Dinoffrio, close friend to mine.

[119] Will you go that far?

[120] Yes.

[121] You will.

[122] Well, I think I never know what I'm...

[123] I like you more than you like me, but that's...

[124] No, no, it's not possible.

[125] That's not true.

[126] I don't even know how much you like him, but I know it's not true.

[127] Yeah, I talk often about how much I love you.

[128] But I never know what I'm going to get with you.

[129] You could be playing coy.

[130] You're a genius at keeping me at arm's length, so I want more.

[131] Like, you really know.

[132] I don't know if you read that book, The Game, where it teaches men how to trick women into liking them, but I feel like you're employing those techniques on me. Negging.

[133] Because you'll give me just enough.

[134] And just when I think, oh, he doesn't even like me, then you'll blast me with a really nice something.

[135] The absolute truth is, is that I adore you.

[136] And I hate you.

[137] No, there's nothing about you.

[138] I hate, actually.

[139] Okay.

[140] I'm thinking about it.

[141] I've thought about it at times, and there is actually nothing I hate about you.

[142] Oh.

[143] but what I rely on is you knowing that I love you and that's the only thing that I care about when it comes when it's between you and I like I don't care about what you think about me really okay all I care is that you know that I love you and and and I think that that keeps us friends I'd agree with that assessment but but I'll add there are shirts yeah I know he loves me so like it's fine Right.

[144] And I often have to remind myself of that because I'll come up with these arbitrary tests.

[145] I'd like to try to test your love for me. And as one that we've aired out in public is that I really wish you would move in with us, at least when you're in Los Angeles.

[146] You know, we have an extra room.

[147] We have a kitchen.

[148] It's a nice setup.

[149] And you have said in no certain terms under, what is the expression?

[150] In no uncertain terms.

[151] Under no uncertain terms, you will never spend the night at our.

[152] house right even if the rest of Los Angeles is on fire and it's the only safe bedroom in the city I would put the fire out before I stayed right so you're just that's not an option although weirdly you have offered that I could stay at your house in New York that we would like we would like that yeah and explain the difference between those two things because I don't know because I'm weird I don't know okay explanation I really have would you just be sitting in that bedroom of ours rocking back and forth on the bed thinking how did I get in the situation like when you fantasy I would be truly uncomfortable and I wouldn't sleep at all I don't blame you I have a hard time sleeping there too you guys should be roommates because Monica will also not sleep at our house and it's sometimes it's ridiculous like she's leaving our house at 1 a .m. and then she's going to come back at 7 and she still won't sleep there yeah you know I mean I'm trying to think of what the real reason is I just kind of like naturally over the years have realized that my first reaction to something is usually right and I just stick with it whether I put any rational thought behind it at all or anything.

[153] So now that I'm thinking about it and I've thought about it a lot because you bring it up constantly.

[154] So it didn't really mean a lot to me if you would move in.

[155] But I want to.

[156] Maybe you should rephrase, not move in, stay for a night.

[157] That's almost scarier, I think, too now.

[158] That sounds more like a one -night stand offer or something.

[159] Yeah.

[160] I'm offering full cohabitation.

[161] I think that, you know what, you know how, you know how I would do it, this is how I would do it, I think that if, if Karen and Kristen became like really good friends and, you know, and our friendship, you know, was stayed the same, which is, I think, really good, is very healthy, whether you, I like you more than you like me, it doesn't matter.

[162] Right, right, right.

[163] But the, and that we, like, co -bought a place where both families live.

[164] I would live with you guys.

[165] Okay.

[166] Now, let me see, because you and I have some of the, we have so many similar character defects, I'll call them.

[167] They're not great.

[168] Right.

[169] So you and I met on this movie, The Judge.

[170] Yeah.

[171] And let me just give a brief history of that.

[172] I got seated next to you at the table read.

[173] I'd never met you.

[174] And my internal monologue was, this is exactly what I was saying.

[175] He's an amazing actor.

[176] You're a terrible actor.

[177] He's wondering who made a clerical error.

[178] Why is this kid in this movie?

[179] and for about 25 minutes I was telling myself how much I didn't deserve to be at that table read and you in particular were the one that had a real issue with it because you were probably the best actor there and of course my bad acting was triggering you blah blah blah blah blah blah and then the first words you said to me were hey I saw your movie hit and run at a hotel in Romania and I loved it and I had to go completely back to the drawing boards in my head I was not expecting that and then so that of course really endured me to you and then and I already was a gigantic fan but then what really I think cemented the bond was that we would be unset and we are both triggered by all the same things.

[180] So I don't love when people get in my personal space for a myriad of reasons but quite often on movies they're adjusting your microphone that's under your shirt and then a third person's adjusting your collar and then someone else is fixing up the makeup on the back of your neck and before you know what five or six people are basically swarming you and no one asked if they could do that.

[181] Again, I know, I know I'm complaining about a very high quality problem.

[182] Suffice to say, sometimes it gets me a little agitated.

[183] And the only thing that gave me a lot of comfort was I would look at you under those in the same situation.

[184] And I could see that your blood was also boiling and that you were doing everything you could to be kind as well.

[185] And I just took such pleasure in it that I almost looked forward to when they would adjust your or eyes collar for the 80th time before you heard action.

[186] And I think we had a little bond about that, didn't we?

[187] We did, yeah.

[188] Is that fair to say?

[189] It is fair to say, yeah.

[190] And then also, and now I attribute this to having a lot of stepdads that would show up, and you had one stepdad who showed up.

[191] And so I have a really bad authority complex.

[192] I just, I hate one of strangers telling me what to do.

[193] It's terrible.

[194] It's a character defect.

[195] I wish I wasn't this way.

[196] My wife's life is a lot easier without this hang up.

[197] Yeah.

[198] But you seem to have it as well.

[199] Yes.

[200] And now you just hit on another thing, which is if you owned half the house, you could be comfortable there.

[201] Yeah.

[202] And I can relate to that because what I think of is like, I don't want to owe anyone shit.

[203] I don't want to owe anyone a thing.

[204] I don't want someone calling in a favor to me or something.

[205] And it has nothing to do with, yeah, that's exactly.

[206] You just hit it on it.

[207] That's exactly.

[208] I have nothing to add to that.

[209] Right.

[210] So, yeah, if you did sleep at my house, you'd be like, well, one of these days, he's going to remind me that I owe him.

[211] Yeah.

[212] Or how, yeah, or just he'll be able to say how nice I was for letting you stay at the house.

[213] I'll expect you to say that in public.

[214] That's annoying.

[215] Yeah.

[216] Yes.

[217] Remember that time I let you stay over?

[218] And everybody's like, well, they let him stay over.

[219] That's right.

[220] Everyone went, ooh, Vincent's Day of taxes.

[221] And let's adjust his collar.

[222] He takes favors.

[223] So I'm going to jump right at this thing because when all those, so you have a very, you train in a very specific type of acting.

[224] And I think it, it's become bigger in the public than maybe it really is, right?

[225] There's this term method acting.

[226] And people think of it as, or at least I did, Like Daniel Day Lewis or something.

[227] Yeah, some guy who's pretending it's the 1700s, yet somehow he's on a movie set, which I've never really been able to make peace with in my head.

[228] Right.

[229] Right.

[230] And so I think that's our layman's idea of what method acting is, is that you never break a character.

[231] Yeah, which is nonsense.

[232] That's nonsense, right?

[233] Yeah.

[234] And can you tell us?

[235] I mean, what they, what Daniel Day does is not nonsense.

[236] He is, you know, obviously a bad motherfucker.

[237] Yeah.

[238] Like he's the shit.

[239] Yeah.

[240] And, and, and, uh, but that's his thing.

[241] That's what he does, you know.

[242] Yeah.

[243] And he, you know, I can't imagine that he, you know, when he's looking in the refrigerator for something to eat, that he's like, I'm, I'm such a great method actor.

[244] Like, I'm sure he doesn't call himself a method actor by any means.

[245] Right.

[246] He just does his Daniel Day thing and it works for him and it's awesome.

[247] It works for everybody, right?

[248] Yes.

[249] Um, but it has nothing to do with method acting.

[250] Like it's zero has nothing to do with it.

[251] And what's funny is that these days, so they've taken this kind of, Daniel Day image, these other guys, I'm not going to mention names, and they've said, okay, I'm going to be a method actor like Daniel Day Lewis.

[252] I'm going to do the Daniel Day Lewis thing, which is, but that's what they really mean.

[253] Become the character and like never break and, you know.

[254] Yeah.

[255] Yeah.

[256] And I hate to force you to defend the whole thing to me, but when Daniel Day is Abraham Lincoln, and then he gets a phone call on his cell phone.

[257] Yeah.

[258] And he answers it as Abraham Lincoln.

[259] Yeah.

[260] what do you think the mental gymnastics are that he's both Abraham Lincoln yet he lives in a period with technology like a cell phone I don't know all I know all I know is I would love to be there me too I would love to be there and I would love to say like offer him like McDonald's sure you know what I mean right on a motorcycle and I'm sure he'd be okay with it like I mean maybe he'd be annoyed people don't get annoyed with me very much though But I think that this is what I'd like to do.

[261] I'd like to become friends with him first and develop a trust.

[262] So he knows where your heart is?

[263] Yeah.

[264] Yeah.

[265] So he knows that, you know, I'm like, you know, I'm a decent dude.

[266] Yeah.

[267] And then I would like to do something like that to him.

[268] Like, hey man, how you like my sneakers?

[269] Mm -hmm.

[270] You know, like, if he's Abraham Lincoln, you could do a lot.

[271] Absolutely.

[272] Like, did you, you know, did you, did you watch?

[273] you know, House of Cards.

[274] You know, like, you can do anything.

[275] Like, he won't know.

[276] And he'd have to answer you.

[277] Yeah.

[278] Or just blow his mind.

[279] Like, do you know there's a black president?

[280] He's like, what?

[281] I just emancipated them.

[282] Yeah, I know.

[283] Look far.

[284] You can go really far.

[285] Yeah.

[286] Who drives you to work, dude?

[287] I had you get here.

[288] Yeah.

[289] Did you, what'd you do?

[290] And he is a wife.

[291] So his wife clearly calls him is like, Hun, the pipe broke in the basement.

[292] And he's like, I don't think that Daniel Day fixes the pipes in the basement.

[293] I just have a feel.

[294] Yeah, that's the problem.

[295] Because he probably has to live as like a plumber for like a year before he could do that.

[296] Before he would fix the life.

[297] That's a long way around.

[298] Well, I did hear, and again, I don't know how much of this is mythology at this point or not.

[299] Again, let me just state, I think he's amazing.

[300] There's no question.

[301] I could never do what he does.

[302] But I did hear that he went and lived in the woods for a few months before last the Mohicans and like North Carolina.

[303] Yeah.

[304] Which is awesome.

[305] I totally applaud that.

[306] Again, I don't know how he would sell that to my wife.

[307] Like, imagine you telling Corinne, hey, I booked a job in September, but I'm leaving in May. Yeah.

[308] Because I'm going to live off the land for three months before we start.

[309] Yeah, no, that's not going to fly.

[310] What would she say?

[311] No, I'd be in trouble.

[312] I'd be on the verge of a divorce.

[313] Yeah.

[314] And, like, somehow try to, like, wiggle my way out of it somehow.

[315] Yeah.

[316] I mean, it probably helps that he only does a movie every, like, decade.

[317] His wife probably knows what she's gotten herself in to.

[318] She's a film director.

[319] That's a good point.

[320] She's an amazing, you know, film director.

[321] She is.

[322] Rebecca Miller, yeah.

[323] Oh, okay.

[324] Yeah.

[325] Oh, and she's daughter of Arthur Miller?

[326] Henry Miller.

[327] One of the millers?

[328] Not Henry Miller.

[329] Arthur Miller.

[330] Okay.

[331] Don't put who Henry Miller.

[332] He wasn't big on kids.

[333] That's why I just want to say that.

[334] Oh, okay.

[335] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[336] If you dare.

[337] We've all been there.

[338] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[339] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[340] But for another.

[341] unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[342] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[343] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[344] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[345] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[346] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[347] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[348] What's up, guys?

[349] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[350] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[351] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[352] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[353] And I don't mean just friends.

[354] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[355] The list goes on.

[356] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[357] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[358] So you, you grew up primarily in Florida.

[359] Yes.

[360] But your dad was in the Air Force.

[361] Yes.

[362] And you were born in the Bronx?

[363] No, Brooklyn.

[364] Brooklyn, yeah.

[365] And then you moved to Hawaii and then Colorado?

[366] Yes.

[367] This all checks out.

[368] It all checks out.

[369] Not in that order, though.

[370] Brooklyn, Florida.

[371] Okay.

[372] Divorce.

[373] Yes.

[374] Hawaii.

[375] Okay.

[376] Hawaii, Florida.

[377] Okay.

[378] Every summer, Brooklyn, with my grandfather.

[379] Okay.

[380] Every summer.

[381] Uh -huh.

[382] Like, my whole life.

[383] Yeah.

[384] I mean, I've stopped now, but.

[385] Well, yeah.

[386] And.

[387] What if you were still leaving your family to go.

[388] It would be with Pappy.

[389] He'd be so old.

[390] Yeah.

[391] He would be deep in his hundreds probably.

[392] He'd still be cooking, though.

[393] He was a good cook.

[394] And, uh, Well, that explains a little, because you definitely have this, a little bit of a New York City stink to you in a great way.

[395] Yeah, and I always have, I mean, most of my relatives are New Yorkers, you know.

[396] Italian, Sicilian, yeah, yeah.

[397] But the bulk, though, of your childhood's in Florida, is that?

[398] Right.

[399] For, like, junior high, high school, yeah.

[400] Yeah, the hard years.

[401] Yeah, yes.

[402] Yeah, the deviant.

[403] Yes.

[404] And as a kid, you were shy.

[405] And just probably chemically, biologically, by design.

[406] A mess.

[407] That's just who you are, right?

[408] Yeah.

[409] You don't, like, fall out of a skyscraper or get attacked by a gunman or anything, right?

[410] You were just, you were uniquely.

[411] And you were huge, too, right?

[412] You've been this size since you were seven or something?

[413] Yeah, I was born eight foot.

[414] Right.

[415] and 300 180 pounds okay and um so is it suffice to say that the junior high in high school years weren't a blast they weren't like joy no they were they were nothing i i remember very little of it because i was in such a bad way yeah so um i i remember i remember little things but not like there was no there's no like history that I like there's not this long you know winding lavish story of those days like there's like flashes and if you were the same exact kid in 2018 what would they be doing with you you probably would have gotten attention yeah I luckily had dyslexia in an era where they knew what the fuck that was I didn't know when I was kidding.

[416] Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[417] Like, now I think that you probably wouldn't have been left to just hang in your room at this.

[418] Right.

[419] Right.

[420] No, I would have probably been healthier.

[421] I would have probably been treated better and healthier and probably wouldn't have lived on the street so much and probably been taking care of better, I would imagine, yeah.

[422] Yeah.

[423] My teachers and things.

[424] Were you angry?

[425] Was that the most common emotion you had?

[426] No, the most common emotion I had was.

[427] was fear of the future.

[428] Like, where does this lead?

[429] If this is what it's like now, where does it go?

[430] Right.

[431] You know, like, you weren't optimistic about anything.

[432] No. Right.

[433] Which I think they say is like the definitive characteristic of people with depression is that generally people, when they think of the future, it's filled optimism.

[434] Even if they're delusional, they're like, yeah, I'll probably have a great job in 10 years or whatever they think.

[435] Yeah.

[436] people depression generally like they're more than realistic they're like I'll probably be dead in six years or whatever the thing is they think yeah but it's a very hard way to be I would imagine it's hard to be motivated if you think everything's gonna be turn out shitty yeah I mean I didn't I never felt like giving up though it's just I kind of felt like you know I just like I think I need to just sneak around until time passes like just see what happens you know uh -huh like try to avoid as much as I can and just see what happens.

[437] See if time is on my side.

[438] Right.

[439] You know what I mean?

[440] Yeah.

[441] Maybe time will be on my side.

[442] But knowing a lot about you, what's funny is that you did criminal intent for years, right?

[443] And so now you have this really neat bond with cops.

[444] Like, I've been around you a dozen times where cops love talking to you.

[445] And then you're always just incredibly gracious with them and you spend a lot of time talking to them.

[446] And I do, I'm on the outside going, It's a little ironic, right?

[447] Because you were, as a kid, you were probably not on the, they weren't shaking your hand, right?

[448] No. Pat me on the back?

[449] No. So was that a bizarre transition for you?

[450] I mean, my relationship, well, everything is more specific than what you say.

[451] Okay.

[452] Right.

[453] So, like I could easily say, you know, you're right.

[454] And that's how it is.

[455] I don't.

[456] I am uncomfortable.

[457] No, no. The truth is the way that I think of law enforcement is I think of, I think of, you're right?

[458] their families.

[459] I don't think of them really.

[460] I think of their families.

[461] And that's been my involvement with them is that is for fallen officers talking to their families.

[462] And so when cops know that about you, they naturally are nice to you.

[463] Yeah, because you don't have to do it and you do it.

[464] And it's, to them, it's like a big deal because nobody does it.

[465] Yeah.

[466] So by the way, everything I'm saying is sincere.

[467] I think it's really beautiful that these cops are so, nice to you and I get I think like so many things with you are and I I I'm going to say you and I is we almost it was so hard for us to let the light in and then every every inch we let in more more we go like oh wow maybe all these people would have liked us if we would have let them like us I guess that's what I'm saying yeah it isn't it wild that you could do something career wise that would put you in a position where you'd actually have to kind of just open up and be friendly and go like oh what a nice way this is I could have been doing that the whole time, right?

[468] That would have been nice, yeah.

[469] I think that if I, if I would have had the, the wherewithal to just do what I thought was the right thing to do, I think I would have been fine.

[470] I think I would have had more friends and I think, but I just, I didn't, I had too much fear in me of being questioned.

[471] You know, I was also bullied a lot because of my weight when I was a kid.

[472] And, you know, I wasn't the brightest bulb on the block.

[473] in what way though you're crazy smart no in a way of like academics and stuff like that I was far behind everybody else and you know back then they just used to push you through school you didn't even have to make good grades like you didn't have to I don't even think I got grades like I can't remember like I just remember saying oh okay you're in the next grade now and I'm like okay that was awesome you're like I'll go to the next class you know but I don't remember ever going boy I hope I didn't get a D or B or you know whatever yeah I don't I don't remember my report cards.

[474] I don't remember anything.

[475] Right.

[476] I just remember saying, now you're in fifth grade, son.

[477] And I'm like, okay.

[478] And then eventually they let you walk across the podium and you graduated.

[479] Yeah, they gave me this, like, blue robe and a weird hat.

[480] And they're like, your number of 780.

[481] Did you go to school with a trillion kids?

[482] Yeah, like 2 ,000.

[483] Oh, my gosh.

[484] Yeah.

[485] Oh, boy.

[486] Yeah.

[487] So the cop thing, I just wanted to say that.

[488] So there's a specific thing that when I think of, because there are some cops that really annoy me. And there are other ones that don't.

[489] And they're all shapes and sizes, men, women, and, you know, all over the world.

[490] Yeah.

[491] All different colors and religions and everything.

[492] And I've met, you know, a hell of a lot of them.

[493] And I think of them as people, I don't, you know, more than I do law enforcers.

[494] So, I think because my stepdad was a firefighter, and he had cop friends and stuff like that.

[495] And I remember a couple of suicides when I was a kid.

[496] Like, I remember one guy, one captain, he, you know, killed himself in his garage the usual way with his exhaust, kept the car running and, you know, put a hose into the window and kill himself.

[497] And I remember, and he was like a friend of the family.

[498] He's like, and I'm like, Jesus, fuck, you know.

[499] You know, and so I've always thought of them as, like, real people who can commit suicide and go through a lot of trouble.

[500] I think they have a high rate of all that stuff.

[501] Yeah, I mean, I don't know anymore, but, you know, so I think of them as, like, real people.

[502] So, um, when I used to get into trouble when I was a kid, I, you know, I got out of it.

[503] Like, I never ended up in prison or I never ended up in jail because I, you know, you know, enough people knew your stepdad.

[504] Yeah.

[505] Yeah.

[506] That I was, and he was a really smart.

[507] He was a really smart guy and a tough cookie.

[508] And, you know, he eventually put a stop to all of my shenanigans.

[509] Uh -huh.

[510] And you, you, I can't remember how you feel about him.

[511] You like him.

[512] Yeah.

[513] Yeah.

[514] Yeah, he was a good influence ultimately.

[515] I mean, he's the only father figure that I had.

[516] Yeah.

[517] Yeah.

[518] And you embraced it at some point.

[519] Yeah.

[520] Yeah.

[521] That's great.

[522] Yeah.

[523] So you barely, you don't even know how you get through high school, but.

[524] Yeah.

[525] We don't know.

[526] It's still a mystery.

[527] Yeah.

[528] And, um, I, um, I'd like to find that diploma, by the way, just to see what it says.

[529] It probably doesn't even have my name on.

[530] It's a blank piece of paper.

[531] Number 734 graduated.

[532] It's vague.

[533] We kind of remember this guy, you know.

[534] But you end up in New York.

[535] Do you move there really quick or?

[536] No, that's when Colorado came.

[537] So, yeah.

[538] So my friend Elio Medina and I, Cuban kid, we didn't know what to do with our lives.

[539] And so we started cabling for a phone company to cable buildings for phones.

[540] Oh, okay.

[541] Like running wire through everything.

[542] Yeah, like through the ceilings down and then putting the red and the grade.

[543] You know, 100 ,000s of them.

[544] But we made a ton of money doing it because we'd work like overtime and we made a ton of money.

[545] This is like right after high school.

[546] Uh -huh.

[547] And we bought a Toyota Corolla.

[548] And we drove across country.

[549] So, like, we had this idea of going to, like, Stenson Beach in San Francisco or something, because we heard it was really cool there.

[550] Yeah.

[551] And we never, we never really, well, we actually did make it.

[552] But it wasn't as romantic as we thought it was going to be.

[553] Yeah.

[554] And it rarely is.

[555] Yeah.

[556] It was really just fucking horrible.

[557] It's a stupid and horrible.

[558] You know.

[559] And I didn't learn anything.

[560] Did I have any good experiences or anything?

[561] And it was just done.

[562] And then my dad, my real father was in Colorado at the time, and that's how I ended up there.

[563] Because we finally got to the other side of the country, like, duh, you know, now what?

[564] Yeah.

[565] I just went to Colorado and I tried to go to community college.

[566] Uh -huh.

[567] And that lasts about two days, yeah.

[568] Yeah.

[569] And then I just told my dad, my dad was involved with community theater and stuff like that, and he used to do these plays all the time and stuff.

[570] I told him that, uh, that, uh, you know, I, I, what I, I was, I was doing magic.

[571] I got into magic.

[572] Yeah, I just read that about you this morning and it was, it was, that came as a little bit of a shock to me. Yeah.

[573] Yeah.

[574] Cause magic is not very sexy.

[575] Well, I disagree.

[576] I love magic.

[577] Monica does have a real thing for magicians.

[578] I do.

[579] Not ironically.

[580] Do you go to the magic castle?

[581] I want to.

[582] She's afraid to, she'll be too horny there.

[583] Yeah.

[584] I want to.

[585] I have I haven't gone yet, but I really want to.

[586] Can you pull some strings?

[587] Yeah, can you get me in?

[588] Well, they don't know me there.

[589] They don't recognize your magician skills.

[590] But can I tell you why it doesn't surprise me?

[591] Because when you spend a lot of time in your room, you either learn to play guitar really well or you learn magic.

[592] One of those two things is probably going to happen.

[593] In your case, it was magic.

[594] It's really good.

[595] And I got very, very good at it.

[596] And I used to make a lot of money.

[597] I also, my mom was a waitress at the ranch house, which is like a Denny.

[598] like pre -Dennies and then eventually she worked at Denny's she graduated to Denny's eventually and she supported us the girls and me and uh and um there was all all these cops in fact that's how she met George my stepdad um they would go to ranch house to eat you know and so she'd be so I knew all these cops and stuff and and um you know there wasn't a lot to do in highly of Florida you know yeah but my mom eventually got her dream kidney -shaped swimming pool in the backyard, which was a very small swimming pool, but it was kidney shape.

[599] It was like the smallest kidney.

[600] Right.

[601] It was a rat kidney.

[602] Yeah, it was a rat kidney.

[603] The bunny rabbit kidney.

[604] Yes, yeah.

[605] And so I was reading so much when I was younger and I had eventually read these books of these old magicians like Blackstone, the original Blackstone in Houdini and Houdin and all these guys and I realized how to escape from a mailbag.

[606] This is true story.

[607] So I had a sale company.

[608] Somebody that my stepdad who was the firefighter knew at work that a sale company and I made them make me a mail bag.

[609] Because you needed a big one.

[610] I needed a big mailbag.

[611] And I was able to get cops over and handcuff me and put a chain through.

[612] and lock it and push me into the little kidney shapes and I escape well hold on it's like why on earth would they go along with us because I I promised them that I could get out oh that wouldn't be enough for me shoving like a teenager in a mailbag and so we did maybe they thought like hey we got all the right guys here if this goes sideways we got everyone here yeah well it was an interesting trick because the there's a lot you put extra holes in in the mail bag at the bottom so that it fills with water because if you don't then when you go in the water it presses against you right and then you suffocate you die okay so when you have to wait for the bag to fill up that's the scariest part but by the time you're pushed in the pool you're already out of the cuffs and everything oh okay so you have to wait for the bag to fill up so you're standing there holding the chain and this bag is filling up around and then you just there's a trick and you just push yourself out of the bag.

[613] The bag is like, you totally have it on control.

[614] So you're fine.

[615] And so when I did that stunt, it got.

[616] It got.

[617] It got a lot of press.

[618] Oh, it did.

[619] Oh, yeah.

[620] And I started working steady as a magician.

[621] Come on.

[622] I swear to God, it's true.

[623] Going into pools and whatnot.

[624] I only did that.

[625] I didn't do that at the shows.

[626] Oh, okay.

[627] That was just to get excitement around me. Exactly.

[628] To launch your brand.

[629] Yeah.

[630] And then the, there was, I don't, I don't, I I think they're called the Magic Ring or something like that.

[631] There's these little organizations all over the country and the world where they're like magicians clubs.

[632] Yeah.

[633] I think in Florida they were particularly big, by the way.

[634] I know a few other people from Florida who are also into magic.

[635] So they invited me as like the youngest member to be able to be part of the magic ring.

[636] And I got a sponge ball move put in a book that I invented and everything.

[637] Really?

[638] Yeah, that's true.

[639] Stay tuned for more Armchair.

[640] If you dare Learn magic I don't understand Because you can't just Like read a book And learn the trick But you can But then everyone can just Find out how to do it But nobody does It's like you're asking How you do it So I can just go Look at books It's sort of like magic If you think about it Because like there's all these books But nobody sees them Nobody thinks of Yeah But you can find out You can find the answers To all these tricks Yes Did you see the film The Prestige Yes Did you love it?

[641] It's okay.

[642] Oh, it didn't live up to your high standing?

[643] Monica and I love it.

[644] Is that like bad magic?

[645] It's like not even good.

[646] It's just expensive magic.

[647] Okay.

[648] You just have to, it costs a lot.

[649] All right.

[650] You're more of a purist.

[651] You're more of a purist.

[652] When it costs a lot of money.

[653] Yeah.

[654] But the good stuff is the stuff that's like right under your nose that you can't.

[655] It costs nothing except for some reading like a paragraph and then practicing.

[656] Well, I hope.

[657] Well, first of all, I'm glad.

[658] you've been pacing yourself so that you're saving tricks for me as we grow older but i do hope that you'll do some magic for me at some point yeah yeah that maybe when you spend the night yeah that probably will never happen that sounds like never yeah what about the magic though you do a little magic for but how about for the girls would you do some for the girls i have done one for the girls already without you knowing yes oh you did yes i did last time i was here in your kitchen i made a coin disappear for the little one oh you know what i think they really love is watching You fall in our swimming hole with chains in a bag all around your neck.

[659] You know, I thought about doing that again.

[660] And I don't think that I would survive it.

[661] No, I don't.

[662] No, in my age now.

[663] Yeah.

[664] I think I would panic.

[665] I mean, the waiting, I still think about that sometimes about the waiting for the bag to fill up.

[666] Yes, it's terrible.

[667] Yeah.

[668] So were you doing magic in Colorado?

[669] I did.

[670] I was going to say, it's funny you should ask that, because I was going to say when my dad was doing in community theater, there was this one show where I opened the show with a magic act.

[671] Oh, uh -huh.

[672] And I realized at that point, it was my first time that I had ever done an actual stage show.

[673] Like, I'd done magic at parties and get -togethers and at the conventions and stuff, but and that's just where people around you and, you know, but this was an actual, and I had absolutely no stage fright, like none.

[674] Oh, really?

[675] Like zero.

[676] And I recognized it right away because everybody else around me was shitting their pants.

[677] they were doing some stupid like melodrama yeah you know dirty work at the crossroads or something a play like that right it's stupid yeah yeah and um i don't want to say it's stupid no it's great whatever yeah yeah yeah and uh it's the best it's the best it's dinner theater that's great we love it and and and they were all you know you know having smoke smoking before they went on stage yeah and i realized that um that i had zero uh and i i i had zero uh and i i I still don't have any, I still don't have stage.

[678] You don't have any performance anxiety at all?

[679] Never.

[680] Isn't that interesting?

[681] Yeah, and I think it's a mental deficiency.

[682] You do?

[683] I do think that I. But it's kind of flipped because you were saying you were kind of having anxiety in just real life.

[684] But that was about life.

[685] Yeah, normal life is like a little insurmountable.

[686] And then this thing that normally is super high stakes and terrifying to people, you're like cool as a cucumber.

[687] That's why I think there's something wrong.

[688] There's some wrong wiring.

[689] Yeah.

[690] That could be the case.

[691] Yeah.

[692] Well, it's like when I have something in common with somebody, which I think I have some stuff in common with you, yeah, is that I can see it in them.

[693] And I, one of the things that I think of is, you know, I wish that there was some way I could let Dax know.

[694] Like, I wished I could whisper something in your ear and you would never have that fear again.

[695] Mm -hmm.

[696] But I don't possess that ability, so don't get your hopes of it.

[697] Right, right.

[698] But I'm just saying that.

[699] like it's a liberating because some of the most talented people like yourself that I know have this kind of have you know they have normal you know stage fright yeah not not stage fright it's just butterflies sure and you know I just I don't I don't know how to the only way that I can when I teach acting there is things that you can do to avoid it there's ways of thinking about how to approach any different scenario, any different scene or any different character that you're about to play when the director says action or to how you get it, come out of your trailer, walk across, pat your brother on the back, joke around with Dax, and then when the director says action to just seamlessly jump into a performance rather than I'm not acting and then I'm acting.

[700] Right.

[701] You know, there's a system of how to do that.

[702] Can I just give you my own, self -evaluation.

[703] So some things I'm totally not, I have zero fear of doing.

[704] Right.

[705] You in particular will trigger my fears because you're so good.

[706] And the only time I have felt very self -conscious acting in like the last seven years probably was in the jail scene when you and I are, you're beating up on the kid in El Camino Christmas.

[707] And I kept getting taken out of it because I was watching you do the kind of performance.

[708] watched you do my whole life.

[709] And I'm like, oh, that's wild.

[710] I'm very close to it now.

[711] Like, I didn't get that feeling when we were doing the judge.

[712] I guess we didn't have any scenes or they weren't heavy lifting for you or whatever.

[713] But this was a particularly kind of heavy lifting scene for you and you were doing the thing that I've kind of been in awe of over the years.

[714] And I started thinking, oh, wow, he just clicked into a gear and I didn't feel myself clicked into a gear.

[715] So it might be pretty stark the difference between the two of us right now.

[716] If we're in the same frame, yeah, ultimately it wasn't.

[717] I certainly wasn't doing as much or as good of a job as you, but that was one of the times where I did get self -conscious because I was like, my God, look at him, do this thing.

[718] So that's just one thing I'll say about my nervousness.

[719] Generally doesn't exist too much, but also I don't take on a whole lot, as you know.

[720] I feel like I know my sweet spot and I try to stay in there.

[721] One of my big fears is, and I applaud you about this, is that I don't cry in real life.

[722] I haven't cried in two, decades.

[723] Right.

[724] So it's not even an issue of I'm afraid I won't be able to access something.

[725] It's like, well, I don't even do that in real life.

[726] So how on earth, if I do it, no matter what, it's going to be a fake because Dak Shepard doesn't do it.

[727] Right.

[728] And that's probably one of my biggest insecurities about being an actor is that I just don't emote much in real life when it's sad.

[729] You know what I'm saying?

[730] Yeah.

[731] But you can do that.

[732] You'll go right there.

[733] And do you do it in real life?

[734] I mean, I try to avoid it as much as possible.

[735] Yeah, yeah.

[736] But you can have a good cry, can you?

[737] Because I want a good cry very bad.

[738] I haven't had a good cry in a long time, but I used to have good cries when I was younger.

[739] Uh -huh.

[740] Or like Bell, Bell cries often.

[741] You know, she cries when she's happy.

[742] She cries when she's sad.

[743] She cries a lot.

[744] So that's a, yeah.

[745] That's very close in the background for her.

[746] But with that, it's not far from me, like, there is not.

[747] Nothing.

[748] There is, there is, how do I say this without sounding too stupid.

[749] There is nothing.

[750] I can say it for you.

[751] You'll do anything, whether you've had that emotion or not, right?

[752] Yeah, pretty much.

[753] You'll do anything.

[754] You'll let yourself act like a crazy psychopath.

[755] You'll blow your top.

[756] You'll do, yeah, you'll, you have a weird confidence or faith in yourself that you'll find something eventually that is truthful and you'll let yourself explore that, right?

[757] Yeah.

[758] Which is amazing.

[759] Which is not, I don't feel like anything is too far for me to touch.

[760] Right.

[761] Like, it's not, it's not that far of a reach for me. Like, I don't really have to reach and beg and plead for a performance.

[762] Right.

[763] It's like, it's not, it's in touching distance.

[764] Yes.

[765] Yeah.

[766] And I wonder, I'm sure it's a combination of things.

[767] One is you've had a lot of great training that you use and you pass on to other people.

[768] Another thing is you're an emotional creature, right?

[769] That's probably part of it in the recipe.

[770] Yeah.

[771] And it all kinds of somehow works.

[772] And you freakishly don't have a fear of being on the stage or hearing action, right?

[773] Right.

[774] Those are all incredible.

[775] I think they're all, they all work for each other.

[776] Yeah.

[777] Which, thank God, because I've been able to make a career out of it.

[778] Yeah.

[779] Somewhat.

[780] And if you hadn't found this outlet, not a great skill at Kinko's.

[781] No. In fact, they don't want you.

[782] No. Yeah.

[783] No, they don't need that kind of person.

[784] Nor a lot of companies.

[785] Like, I've been asked to leave.

[786] several places at lunch like you know don't come back go to lunch but go home right go to lunch for good it's lunch time all the time you should go home right to come back lunch time all the time for you I mean even at a fucking convenience store I couldn't cut it like I didn't cut it yeah like it the only is my writing that the only successful career we've had other than acting was you were a bouncer and slash security yeah and you did well at that yeah you did you weren't fired from any of those jobs no I was hired.

[787] Right.

[788] A lot.

[789] And you were a bouncer at Hard Rock?

[790] I was.

[791] I was, yeah, for, for, that was, that was, that was the late years.

[792] That was just before, um, what's fascinating is this.

[793] Oh, I thought it happened also after full metal jacket.

[794] I went back to work.

[795] Yeah, after full metal jacket, yeah.

[796] I went back.

[797] I didn't quit bouncing until, I think, three jobs in.

[798] Okay.

[799] Three acting jobs in.

[800] Full metal jacket.

[801] Because you just needed the money or you never really believe like all this.

[802] things going to really take off.

[803] I wasn't quite sure, yeah.

[804] Yeah.

[805] Yeah, I thought it was a fluke.

[806] Of course.

[807] Yeah.

[808] I would almost imagine that lasted for way many years after it was obvious that it wasn't a flu.

[809] Because I still didn't think that like many, I thought I was in the stage of life where, okay, people put up with me. People will put up with me for a while.

[810] Uh -huh.

[811] I mean, are they going to like, you know, like, no. Embrace you.

[812] Yeah, that's not going to happen.

[813] Right, right.

[814] People are like putting up with me for a while.

[815] So it's, you know, this is okay.

[816] So I think I'll keep my job, though.

[817] I think I'll keep my regular job.

[818] Yeah.

[819] But you love Colorado.

[820] You go to New York and you studied at the actor's studio in a couple other?

[821] I studied with a woman named Sharon Chatton, who was with the actor's studio and learned to math and act.

[822] Right.

[823] And as we just discussed, it doesn't mean that you're walking around like Benjamin Franklin at craft services.

[824] No, although I came as Benjamin Franklin today only because you know how much I love him.

[825] Yeah, and I'm flattered that you actually recognized it was Benjamin Franklin.

[826] Yes, yeah, yeah.

[827] I'd sometimes get your Benjamin Franklin and you're Alexander Hamilton confused, just a little bit.

[828] Well, the guy at the hotel this morning thought I was dressed as an old woman.

[829] Yes, yes.

[830] It's an easy mistake to make, or a pilgrim.

[831] But you got full metal jacket, and what did you do?

[832] You sent tapes to Kubrick, is that true?

[833] Yeah, so I was at the front door.

[834] I was bodyguarding for, it's like sometimes for Danny Akroy.

[835] and sometimes for Yule Brenner.

[836] Is he the manliest man you've ever met?

[837] He was, when I met him, he was dying.

[838] Oh, okay.

[839] Yeah, I met him on his last show.

[840] Oh, okay.

[841] And he died during that show.

[842] Oh, that's it.

[843] He did his last run of...

[844] Not from your lack of protection.

[845] No, nobody got out of him and killed him.

[846] He wasn't assassinated under your...

[847] I'm just going to go to the bathroom for a minute, Yule.

[848] I came back and he was...

[849] You get a Colombian necktie.

[850] Just going to go to the bathroom.

[851] You bring up a great question, though.

[852] What does the bodyguard do when they have to go to the bathroom?

[853] You go.

[854] You go and you bodyguard on the way.

[855] You put them somewhere safe, like stay in this corner or come with me. Yeah.

[856] You just tell them don't move and don't say anything.

[857] Okay.

[858] Don't draw attention to yourself.

[859] What if they were so nervous though they did want to come to the bathroom with you?

[860] You know what?

[861] I'll just come with you, Vince.

[862] I feel better if I'm just in there with you.

[863] You know, there is a story about a guy.

[864] There was a guy named Terry, who was a firefighter, and he was moonlighting as a bodyguard, and we were in a bathroom together.

[865] I won't say where, but it was a huge coliseum, and he got shot in the neck.

[866] Oh, Jesus.

[867] Yeah, in the bathroom with the person we were supposed to be bodyguarding.

[868] And was the bullet intended for the person you were bodyguard?

[869] Yeah, she took the gun out, and she put it up to his neck, right, point blank, and just, shot him through the neck and you witnessed this yeah it was like yeah it was like a pop how old were you 20 maybe oh i yeah yeah and then do you tackle this gal no i just took it out of her hand and and just told her to back up against the wall and then the police came and stuff like that and did he die no no he was oh he just passed right we walked to the hospital yeah oh you what we walked to the hospital that's crazy that was that the end of expected did the guy tip him profusely the the mark the only problem the only sad thing about it is that he wasn't able to be a firefighter anymore because he couldn't you know he had that he had some neck issues afterwards okay so you you self -tape and you send these tapes to kub matthew modin was walking by the hard rock because uh acord used to be one of the owners of it matthew's walking by matthew and i knew modin and i knew each other from auditions and stuff we used to help each other out we'd go to central park and study our lines together and stuff like that and And he told me that he was doing a Stan Kubrick movie because his career, it started before mine.

[870] He'd done like three or four films before me. Yeah.

[871] And he was great in all of him, Birdie and streaming.

[872] Oh, I love Birdie.

[873] Vision Quest.

[874] Yeah.

[875] Great soundtrack to Bertie Peter Gabriel.

[876] Yeah.

[877] And he said, you know, there's another part available.

[878] You should send the tape.

[879] And I'm like, yeah, I'll send a tape.

[880] Like, where do I send it?

[881] And so he sorted that out for me. Wow.

[882] And, you know, amongst, you know, 3 ,000 other tapes, you know.

[883] Yeah.

[884] yeah Stanley picked mine that's really incredible yeah it's like Christmas yeah do you fluctuate back and forth between the really lucky moments in your life you like resist labeling them lucky because you want to have some ownership over your life no I think of them as like Christmas like like Jesus this was like really yeah like if there's such thing as Christmas this was Christmas like to me that gets easier the further away from the very lucky event you were yeah although I've never had a problem with letting people know about full metal jacket because it was such a distinct thing and Matthew did such a distinct thing yeah that it's hard to it would it would have been difficult to ever ignore that this you know just you know because I think that I would have done the same thing for somebody I'm just saying that that the fact that he did it he said look there's this part available I don't know what it is but you should you know, I'll get the tape to you.

[885] It's kind of rare.

[886] I'll say that's kind of rare.

[887] That's very gracious of him.

[888] You know, for any actor to look out for another actor because you're so terrified all the time that you'll never work again and you're so focused on yourself and your own desires and needs that to be conscious of someone else is kind of, it's very big of someone.

[889] Yeah.

[890] The problem with that, there's a lot of people think that that dissipates the more successful you get.

[891] And I don't think it does.

[892] In other words, like, we're both semi -successful, right?

[893] We're like...

[894] We're not doing this interview in my car.

[895] No. Right.

[896] but your car is nicer than this attic all of his cars we should be in one of my cars and you can actually close the door if you're going to have a shit yeah exactly just different in this room have a shit that sounds so English of you but would explain that it dissipates because okay so we're successful and and like I don't I I I don't think like that should ever stop like doing favors for your friends like trying to boast a career trying to turn them on to stuff that you're doing and that you're not doing and that yeah you know what I mean it's like but to me that gets easier to do with success me just personally I was so uh up my own ass about what I needed and that where I had you know I just had to get this thing get this thing it's only now that I've started to fucking take my hands off the neck of it that I can look around and go like oh I should really go out of my way to help this person or I should you know yeah yeah and weirdly they're far more pleasure derived from that than self -fulfillment weirdly you come to learn but for me I wasn't great at that at the beginning I think I was competitive with everyone and selfish yeah but not Modine not Modin he's still the same too you know what career you would or wouldn't have is unknowable but certainly to do that movie for your first movie you carry that for your whole life which is really crazy, right?

[897] It's not like a pipe fitter ever runs like a two -inch pipe into a house in his early career.

[898] And then for the rest of his life, people go, oh, that guy's the best fucking plumber ever.

[899] You know, like, it's a very unique, awesome thing that you can get this intangible, which you got at a young age.

[900] I did, and I worked really hard for it.

[901] And I think that, like, I definitely deserved not to get fired from that.

[902] that show from that job well you were you were absolutely fantastic in it there's no question yeah but it's like the the event itself i'm talking about like actually going and doing it and meeting stanley and doing a big film like that and stuff like that i you know i worked my fucking ass off yeah to for that part like to when he wants you know to figure it out to figure it out in a way that that that that could be hopefully unique yeah like even even a tinge unique like like like any something about it unique.

[903] Yeah, well, look, I'm going to blow smoke up your ass, but it's good enough to just be in a Stanley Kubrick film and not stand out as the one shitty actor in it.

[904] Like, if you can just go in there and just stay, you know, right at the level of the water is a huge accomplishment.

[905] Yeah.

[906] But then to actually be the most memorable part of a Stanley Kubrick movie is really incredible.

[907] It's really, I'm sure you won't take that compliment.

[908] But that scene is the most memorable scene in that whole movie, and it could have easily formed.

[909] It could have gone wrong in a lot of ways that it didn't.

[910] Yeah.

[911] I'm glad it didn't.

[912] Yeah.

[913] Can I tell you one comical thing that I read that I think is so funny?

[914] Is that it said, Vincent gained 70 pounds for this movie, which is the record for the most weight gained by an actor surpassing De Niro.

[915] Isn't that the stupidest thing you've ever heard someone right?

[916] It is.

[917] And I've actually heard that before.

[918] Have you?

[919] Yeah.

[920] As if somewhere is Keith, like the actor hall of fame or, history society they're like uh someone someone's getting up to gain 72 pounds to beat denofrio yeah no it was i was in london and i just you know ate like a fucking horse right a lot of let of sweets a lot of hash smoke hash oh i'm like did you get the munchy you ate oh okay oh got you got good i was right eat constant i couldn't tell if you were talking like corn beef hash i was but i did have corned beef hash as well as the other half well i think that's really popular in england right yeah bubble and squeak they call it oh they do well it's bubble and squeak is leftovers from the night before fried in a pan for breakfast oh okay yeah and you ate the hell out of that yeah um what i what i want to know about is because again i'm only curious in how all this stuff impacts real life like whatever you have a job you're an actor that's great it is a big transition to go from shy kid in your room in Florida to someone who people now kind of just like right like they're drawn to yeah and this is like a whole new set of clothes to wear do you remember that being like an interesting transition or like weird or did you have distrust of it all like a more concrete example would be when you're a shy kid in your room you're not it's not like you're going to the prom and stuff right and now girls like you yeah suffice to say random girls strangers now like you a lot yeah that had to have happened right yes And that's both incredibly exciting, right?

[921] Like, oh, wow, this is, this got easy.

[922] That's nice.

[923] Yeah.

[924] And were you, did you stumble through that?

[925] Or you were just like, oh, no, I can own this like it's a role.

[926] I went through a period where I stumbled through it and realized that, like, you stumble enough and you're able to walk up straight, like, you know, it's like, you know, to evolve.

[927] Yeah.

[928] Into like a man walking on too late.

[929] So I evolved from being a Neanderthal to like, you know, a regular person.

[930] Right.

[931] And especially with relationships and stuff like that.

[932] I mean, not really, not early on, but yeah, I was Neanderthaling a lot through all that.

[933] Corinne, your wife has really taught you how to be a man of that, right?

[934] Yes, exactly.

[935] We just had our 21st anniversary.

[936] Really?

[937] Yeah.

[938] That's incredible.

[939] Thank you.

[940] Yeah, that's incredible.

[941] I will say this when my wife met you, which I'm very honest about publicly.

[942] I think it was we had lunch maybe with you in Boston when we were doing the judge.

[943] And we went back up to the room and she goes, whoa, Vincent has major mojo, major, major mojo.

[944] Really?

[945] Female mojo.

[946] I mean, really, you're aware of this to some degree.

[947] You're very confident talking to women, right?

[948] Yes.

[949] Yeah.

[950] And there's something about, I'll watch it when you start talking to my wife.

[951] Like you smile a lot more, your eyes get more open.

[952] Because I enjoy women much more than I enjoy.

[953] I meant.

[954] Yeah.

[955] Why is that, do you think?

[956] Because you're not waiting for them to attack you.

[957] Well, no. Right.

[958] You're not going to like...

[959] Try to get your shit.

[960] You're not going to try to get my shit.

[961] Get your shit and like run the roost over you.

[962] And I also feel like the way that I'm perceived as...

[963] Like I...

[964] Because I think because of my sisters growing up, I don't feel as if I'm a threat.

[965] Right.

[966] Well, also, you do this really coy and adorable thing, which is you're such a presence, but then you're so soft.

[967] They're like, oh, wait, this is, he's a teddy bear, not a renegade.

[968] There's some fun in that.

[969] The other thing is that they're, you know, I mean, they're so awesome to look at.

[970] Sure.

[971] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[972] You know, I mean, honestly, it's like, you know, and so, so that's, they have your interest piqued just much more than you or any of the games.

[973] Right.

[974] Yeah.

[975] Which is not to say you don't get along with men because you do.

[976] You do.

[977] I have some really good friends, yeah.

[978] But I never, I never, I don't think I've ever been able to.

[979] And I think this, you know, cost me a lot in my career too.

[980] If I, if you can want to consider things in that way, I'm not sure I do anymore.

[981] But I think at one time, I think we all have at one time considered, oh, I wonder if I would have done this if I would have had a different career or whatever like sure and um I think old thoughts like that when I when I remember having old thoughts like that I would you know I remember that if I was better at networking or so I was better at um being just you know more more educated more knowledgeable about certain things and you know going to parties and going to parties and not just like for me going to Hollywood party was I would go and I would zero in on what interested me which was usually a beautiful and then nothing else would enter that arena and I would just totally burn every bridge around me that person and laser being focused.

[982] And I thought that that was successful.

[983] Right.

[984] Like now I'm being really successful now.

[985] Yes.

[986] Well that's kind of what I'm getting to because what I'm saying is I found all that very irresistible because it just at my core I was a kid that I felt like in elementary school girls didn't like right right or wrong it doesn't matter that's what i felt like right so i i that's just an endless hole for me to fill like there you know it's to accept all these girls like me it's like there there's not enough girls in the world to tell me that world until i'll start believing it like it was a long journey to to to to feel like i was healing that kid right you know well i think you know i think you know when it comes to when it comes to escapades, I think we went about, as people, we went about things differently, you and I. But I think we made a lot of the same mistakes.

[987] Yes, yes.

[988] And we were both lucky enough to have found very strong women who just wouldn't take any shit.

[989] Yeah.

[990] Right?

[991] Yeah, and that, you know, like if you didn't meet Corinne, where are you today?

[992] I would have been it's not good.

[993] Yeah, it's not pretty, right?

[994] It's not good.

[995] You might not be here.

[996] I mean, most likely I wouldn't be here.

[997] There's a very good chance I'd be dead.

[998] Yes.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] Um, but I would still smell really bad.

[1001] Okay.

[1002] Yes.

[1003] So there'd be similarities between now and then.

[1004] Right.

[1005] There'd be a hint of you around.

[1006] Right.

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] But I think it's either dead or, you know, that, like that old guy at the end of the bar with a pee stain on his pants.

[1009] You know what I mean?

[1010] Like that.

[1011] That's who you'd be.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] Yeah.

[1014] Yeah, like Bukowski and Barfly.

[1015] Yeah, except for in a more, in a higher end joint.

[1016] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1017] Yeah, but it is interesting that you are attracted to a super strong, powerful woman.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] And do you think that's from older sisters?

[1020] Like having some reverie for them?

[1021] I think it's the strength in my mom, the strength in my, my wacky sisters.

[1022] Yeah, they're being so, you know, crazy.

[1023] and strong yeah yeah yeah and um when you you you when you decided to go do the tv show criminal intent yeah um law and order criminal intent yeah was that a hard decision for you were you like oh i shouldn't do tv or well what your ego say about all that was different back then yeah now every single person yeah yeah i think that it was a super unhealthy choice to make oh really yeah do yeah in hindsight yeah and i think i did it because because I had screwed up a couple other things before that.

[1024] Like I had movies or?

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] Like I had had offers for things that for some reason in my head, you know, they were stupid to do and I wasn't going to do them.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] And then, you know, they turned out to be like gigantic projects.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] But, you know, still today when I think about them, I wouldn't do them.

[1031] Like I still wouldn't do them.

[1032] Right.

[1033] But I think that I was, I was, I was, I was, that that made me vulnerable.

[1034] Right.

[1035] You were a little scared.

[1036] I was, yeah.

[1037] And I think that Dick Wolfe, you know, I think he, he, I think he might have seen that in me. Ah.

[1038] And he nailed me for the show, yeah.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] And was your primary fear at that point, financial?

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] It's scary, right?

[1044] Well, it was scary for me because I had never met.

[1045] a woman that that I was like I was going to die for it like Corinne like yeah no matter how fucked up I was no matter what stupid things I did no matter what you know what I had to overcome no matter what you know who I was really under this and under that and you know the multiples of me and who I it didn't matter I was never going to not be with my wife Right.

[1046] And that suddenly brought on like, oh, fuck.

[1047] Like, I can't, I'm not sure I can sustain a career.

[1048] Uh -huh.

[1049] You know, I think I'm a little too crazy to have a career.

[1050] Like a, you know, something you can bet on.

[1051] Yeah, yeah.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] I think I'm just like, I think I'm talented, but I'm a little too.

[1054] Unhinged.

[1055] A little too unhinged.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] And also the lifestyle of acting in movies is very, very conducive to that kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality, right?

[1058] Because you can be at home and you're one person and then you're going to hotels for three months.

[1059] Then you can really be anyone you want for three months.

[1060] Well, they got, you know, so they sold us the idea, my manager at the time and my agent at the time.

[1061] And they sold us, oh, but you'll be home.

[1062] You'll be in New York.

[1063] Life will be better.

[1064] But it's not the truth.

[1065] Right.

[1066] The truth is that you're never home and you never see your wife and you never, you know, you don't see anybody.

[1067] You don't have any friendships except for anybody on set.

[1068] and that's it.

[1069] Yeah, because you're doing 23 episodes and working 18 hours a day and it's like you have no life.

[1070] Yes.

[1071] And it got really, really hard for you, right?

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] What year?

[1074] Three?

[1075] Four.

[1076] Four.

[1077] Fifth was a blur.

[1078] Uh -huh.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] And you got to a point where you're like, I guess I don't really care if they throw me in jail for leaving.

[1081] I just am going to die if I keep doing this.

[1082] And that's because people don't recognize right.

[1083] you're working a five -day week but really Friday night is a night shoot so you're really working till deep into Saturday right yeah and so you've got about what 24 hours off and then you're looking reams of dialogue to learn yeah you were in every single scene of that show pretty much yeah on that show I had to stay two days ahead on dialogue and that's a lot if you've done a show you know that right to actually have to be learning scenes two days before you shoot them while you're shooting other scenes that you've learned two days before that.

[1084] Yeah.

[1085] Like, I had to literally start studying two days before.

[1086] And at no point where you're like, just get me a fucking cue card or an earpiece.

[1087] You never were willing to do that either.

[1088] No. Right.

[1089] And then so you eventually...

[1090] But it never entered my mind either.

[1091] Like, nobody told me that that was doable.

[1092] Right.

[1093] I didn't know.

[1094] Right.

[1095] Because you and I watched Robert Downey, who's very honest about it, he wears in your wake sometimes.

[1096] We watched him do these scenes.

[1097] It was great.

[1098] It was fucking incredible.

[1099] I was like, oh, that works for him.

[1100] A lot of guys do it, and they're fantastic.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] I think it would screw me up, but that's a side note.

[1104] but when you went through that period of it just being just miserable yeah right because i'm going to say you're you're one of the anomalies in my life and it's cool because i like having my worldview challenge which is in my mind if someone's ever used excessively like addictively and then they don't quit whole stock it's not going to work for them but i can attest i've seen you have one drink you don't give a fuck.

[1105] But at a period, it was a little crazy, right?

[1106] Yes.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] And that's fascinating to me that you, you probably lived the way I did when I was an addict, yet you're, you're not, weirdly.

[1110] Or are you?

[1111] You're not.

[1112] Well, I don't know.

[1113] I mean, you have a very normal relationship with all of it now.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] From my point of view.

[1116] Yeah, I totally do.

[1117] Yeah.

[1118] But I'm not saying that that's normal.

[1119] Like I don't, I mean, I have like the utmost respect for, for your situation and for people that I know that are similar to your situation.

[1120] And, and I, I hold it in the highest regard.

[1121] I think that, but I think that my issues are, I have other issues.

[1122] Right.

[1123] That are not, that have nothing to do with addiction.

[1124] Yeah, yeah.

[1125] And by the way, where I'm going with this is, it appears to me that the things you've found that are really useful to you are you meditate now, right?

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] And you have loosely a kind of Aravadic now approach.

[1128] Is that right?

[1129] A little bit.

[1130] Am I saying that correctly?

[1131] Of course, sort of.

[1132] That work gives me a lot of anxiety when I say it out loud.

[1133] And so you did have to go on a path to find some peace and contentment, right?

[1134] I was set on a path.

[1135] You were.

[1136] Yeah, I was ordered.

[1137] by your lovely bride yes yeah yeah we love her by the way she's really fantastic she's very dutch she's very dutch yeah she will not take shit in a great great way in a way that i love not yesterday not in a couple hours she runs your tall ass around that house and i love it and you have just endless respect for her yes will yes i come home and um and i i just stare at her like a dog because you're better off if she's running the show right we disagree it's better for everyone yeah she has a ton of respect for you as an artist and I guess we don't talk about it that's probably but but what's interesting is the fact that you were uh using in a way it to me it says that your situation at the time was really painful it was painful yeah I also lost my sister my step stepdad and my sister died reading a letter to my dead step dad Jesus she had an aneurysm and died and uh all in the same you know a matter of months and um and you have new kids at the time right yeah and um and i and i and they're not home they wouldn't allow me to go to these services from the show they wouldn't give me any time off and so it was uh i was full of a lot of anger and angst and um total exhaustion.

[1138] And so I abused my, my, um, I had a lot of money.

[1139] Mm -hmm.

[1140] Not a lot of money, but they pay well on TV shows like that.

[1141] And, and I had, my relationship was fucked because we never saw each other.

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] And so I, I was just, um, because I have the wife that I have, she just went about her normal shit and said, you're going to be a dickhead, be a dickhead.

[1144] And, uh -huh.

[1145] You know, I've got a child to take care of and, you know, and a life and, you know, you're, you're an absolute idiot.

[1146] Uh -huh.

[1147] And so I had, like, freedom to be that absolute idiot.

[1148] And I was absolutely.

[1149] She let you get to the bottom, basically.

[1150] I deserve.

[1151] There's not a lot of things that I deserve in life, but I deserve a trophy for that period of time.

[1152] Uh -huh.

[1153] Like a big golden.

[1154] Is there a breakthrough, though?

[1155] Is there anything liberating about finding out, it kind of forces you to go, oh, here's what I care about and here's what I don't.

[1156] Because it gets so gruesome, you go, you know what?

[1157] I don't give a fuck about money enough for this.

[1158] I don't give a fuck enough about working or whatever that is.

[1159] Sometimes having to find out what your priorities are in the worst imaginable way can be a gift, though, right?

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] Yeah.

[1162] I think that it's good that I went through that period.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] Because if I hadn't, that would have always been this unexplored part of me that I would have never known that I think would have come out eventually no matter what.

[1165] Yes.

[1166] I don't know what you think about that.

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] Well, again, this is what I had to find out.

[1169] My very last drink was after a very bad week in Hawaii.

[1170] I told you about it.

[1171] I did every drug under the sun.

[1172] And when I had a layover in San Francisco and I was so physically ill, I mean, I can't put too fine a point on how physically ill I was.

[1173] I would have shot myself if you handed me a gun.

[1174] So I was drinking jacking diets as quick as I could So I could make it on my next flight back to LA And I was looking in the mirror at this little bar And I was in the corner Because I was afraid someone from AA was going to see me drinking And there's a mirror right next to my face And I'm about to start a movie where I'm making more money Than I ever dreamt I'd make I'm famous people knew me at the airport I have everything on paper I ever wanted And I'd never ever ever felt worse in my whole life So that's a unique situation to find yourself And that I'm grateful for because I could have been telling myself if I didn't have those things or I feel this shitty because I don't have a million dollars I feel this shitty because I don't have the job I want I feel this shitty because I don't have the girl I want I had every single thing I wanted and I felt miserable and suicidal and I'm grateful that I could have that you know the the splendor of excess to go like I had no other place to point the finger other than myself yeah which is a unique position to be in that I'm grateful I got to be in yeah and likewise for you you have a nice apartment you're you know you're the boss of that show all those things you're married you have a kid oh well then something else is broken it's not all this external stuff I was convinced could fill the whole yeah and that's I'm grateful for that so I yeah so I have exactly yeah so me too I'm totally grateful because I think that this the illness that I had or or have and know how to take care of now, I think would have, would have risen up inside me anyway.

[1175] And so I'm glad it happened when it happened because the time that I went through was just, you know, awful.

[1176] And, and, and it lasted for years and years and years, you know, and I, and I just thought, you know, you know, you think you're okay and you're not okay, you know.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] And it just goes on and on and on.

[1179] and and I think that life now is I was talking I was actually having dinner with my daughter last night and which was really quite touching because this is a very Hollywood story what I'm going to tell it anyway because she she lives here now as you know and she's she lived at my house unlike you she's not afraid to live in my house and and you know which says a lot by the way about her well about you you and Kristen and and and about her too yeah but um so we went and so she she said well why don't we get something she goes okay i'll make reservations somewhere and she made reservations at the chateau marmont uh -huh which i haven't been to sent for over 20 years i'm sure like something like that yeah um and you know you that was like like one of the worst periods of my life like sure that hotel is associated with just hell.

[1180] It's no coincidence.

[1181] People have died there.

[1182] Yeah, exactly.

[1183] And, but at the same time, there were periods early, early on when she was a little girl that when there were movies actually made in Hollywood that I used to come out here for months at a time, do two or three movies in a row.

[1184] This is back in the 80s.

[1185] And, you know, that's, you know, I have a place there.

[1186] You know, it was like, it was always the same room.

[1187] And, you know, it's like, yes, my place I stayed.

[1188] That's where I stay.

[1189] and so as a little girl she was she was there running around the halls and you know so so to have dinner with her there last night was really quite touching yeah and um yeah probably occupies a really neat place in her mind that that place it does yeah it does because it was our it was daddy and daughter time together no no mom's around really just like yeah but i was telling her because now she's an adult and we can talk about things like this i was telling her that a lot of that period of my life, like today I wish that I was, I wish that I was, there's the one thing that I wish that I was.

[1190] And I wish I was healthier back when I was younger.

[1191] Because there are, I could have helped, I could have taught a lot more than I teach now.

[1192] And because I really love teaching.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] And I could have probably written more and been involved.

[1195] My career could have been much more eclectic and it's pretty eclectic now but but it has perimeters i think i would have less perimeters had i been more healthy and i think that shit takes up a lot of energy it does yeah and i and as i was telling her last night that uh that the one thing that i that i see in in in her is that she's she's you know she's healthy yeah you know and that she's she doesn't give herself perimeter.

[1196] And it's really important because my acting and my career and my self -image and my feeling overall and life is so much healthier than it used to be and so much more realistic and good for others and good for me as compared to what it was back then.

[1197] Going into doing the judge, two things.

[1198] One, I just idolize you as an actor.

[1199] But then another thing is I had heard that you were grumpy as a motherfucker.

[1200] Like that that's something I had heard about you.

[1201] And then when I met you, I was like, oh, wait, this is the opposite of anything I've ever heard.

[1202] So clearly some metamorphosis has happened.

[1203] Yeah.

[1204] You know?

[1205] But I don't think in film I'd ever gotten that kind of, I mean, I don't remember ever being on a film set and being unhappy.

[1206] Right.

[1207] This was solely criminal intent.

[1208] I think it was.

[1209] And I really pushed it so far in criminal intent that the people that I did affect in a negative way are scarred for life.

[1210] sure sure and and I think that they I think that if they can like actually talk real sentences yeah and and I think my name comes out like every other word like almost like Tourette's kind of thing yeah yeah like I think I've affected some of those people in a way that they'll never recover right yeah and and I think that that has caused them to to talk shit about me sure but it's not because they want to it's involuntary I think Yeah, yeah.

[1211] Yeah, yeah.

[1212] It's like a seizure.

[1213] Yes, yeah.

[1214] It's PTSD.

[1215] Yeah, yeah.

[1216] Flash back.

[1217] Blurt out the scenario that I had something to do with.

[1218] But they have no control over.

[1219] Right, right.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Here's the things I notice about you now, outside of being just a delightful human being to spend time with, your behavior on Twitter is honestly Dalai Lama status.

[1222] The way I watch you handle people who are negative and mean or misguided, that's your gift is you can come.

[1223] kind of recognize it's misguided and not take it personally like I do.

[1224] It's very Buddhist evolved something.

[1225] You, like, you have a real way that you're consciously carrying yourself and interacting with people in life now.

[1226] And that's a decision, right?

[1227] That doesn't come naturally to you.

[1228] No, it's a decision.

[1229] You want to stand up in a restaurant and fight a guy who's looking at you wrong.

[1230] That's what you want to do, right?

[1231] That's what you and I have bonded most over.

[1232] Right.

[1233] is our love for a power struggle.

[1234] But how did you find your way out of that?

[1235] Because there's something very simple that we overlook.

[1236] And we do it all the time, you and I. And we have to consciously remember that it exists, and it's this.

[1237] There's always somewhere in the room, somewhere, a tiny, tiny little thread of goodness.

[1238] always and you have to seek it out you have to find that tiny little thread and you have to touch it and pull on it and you have to actively consciously make that choice and that's if you forget about that then you you're lost yeah and i think that that it i think that that has to do with everything that has to do with us sitting right here like if i'm at a loss of things to say or if i suddenly build a wall inside me because you go into an area and the conversation that i don't want to fucking go into right and i the my first reaction is to build that well that's the guy who stands up and punches somebody up yeah i build a wall try to fuck with me yes put the shield up but what i'll do nowadays is i'll immediately try to find that thread somewhere.

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] Before I go too far with the wall.

[1241] Uh -huh.

[1242] And just try to find the thread and pull out of the cave.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] And I think that that has to do a lot with, I think it has to do a lot with meditation.

[1245] And I think it has a lot to do with truth, you know, but knowing your failures and who you are and how awful you can be.

[1246] Yeah, well, I love your willingness to own all that stuff.

[1247] But the Twitter thing, you know, I, I, I, quit Twitter.

[1248] Oh, you did?

[1249] This morning?

[1250] No, like a while ago now.

[1251] You did?

[1252] Yeah.

[1253] Okay.

[1254] Just because it's too much.

[1255] Yeah, because I felt like, I mean, I just simply, I think it was, I think it was too much.

[1256] Yeah.

[1257] Yeah.

[1258] I was trying to put it into more intelligent words, but it's just, it's just a bit much.

[1259] And, you know, I think, I mean, I truly was using it to connect.

[1260] Uh -huh.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] Because there's a lot of.

[1263] Which you did a ton about.

[1264] Yeah, that need a little bit of connection, you know.

[1265] Uh -huh.

[1266] But it's just, it's, it's too much.

[1267] I think you, I don't know.

[1268] I mean, I think from what I've seen of your thing, you're also very, very, very, very nice to people.

[1269] I'm 95 %, yeah, but I will, I'll take, you can ensnare me pretty easy.

[1270] There's, I have some, I have some trigger words, you can say.

[1271] Well, I mean, I can, I have trigger words, too, my daughter's one.

[1272] Oh, uh -huh.

[1273] You know, that I don't, there's no toleration there.

[1274] Yes.

[1275] And so that I'll immediately.

[1276] just say you're you're dead to me that's it yeah and I have I have the Italian in me makes me want to tell them first before I kill them yeah sure sure you know yeah yeah me too yeah I want to say something then block them right I want to know that they heard what I was gonna say right and if we weren't as emotional as we are then we would have just blocked them and like not make a second thing thought about and because you're giving them exactly what they want when you respond that's the other truth of that yeah I've I've passed up a nice comment to engage with this person in a negative way yeah which is always embarrassing to me but in the less taunting remarks because there's really only one like if my family is like a big deal like if they go there and that's really super rare when somebody will be that god awful yeah i'd rather them just attack me straight on for who i am sure then attack anybody in my family because that that i have no tolerance for whatever yeah but and i think pretty much everybody can relate to that.

[1277] But anything else, I think, is kind of like, I mean, you know what it's like to be in a bad situation, you know, like, I think that there's very few people, I think, in this day and age that have actually been in, you know, unless you're like in Syria, you know, they've been in bad fucking situations.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] You know, and, and if you know what a bad situation is, suddenly somebody somewhere on Twitter telling you that you're a dickhead is really not that big a deal.

[1280] yes you know after the fact when you lay down at night it's very easy to see that well for me for me it's okay i mean i'll just say look you're you're you're this consider this your shot across the bow is my favorite thing to say yeah i've read that a couple times this is your shot across the bow okay you get this this is a warning shot okay yes and if you continue with your false information or slandering me in any way or you're bigoted hateful or her harassing my followers in any way, then you're going to be blocked.

[1281] And so, and that's, that's it.

[1282] That's, that's the whole thing.

[1283] And so that's, like, that's the nicest that I think I could beat to somebody like that.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] The last thing I want to ask you is, how does all the reverie for you, how do you take it?

[1286] Like, when you're called an actor's actor and you know how much young actors look up to you, what, what is, how's that feel?

[1287] Feels good.

[1288] You like it.

[1289] Well, I mean, it feels good because I know it's healthy.

[1290] So that's the good part about it.

[1291] The negative part of it is, and there shouldn't be anything negative, but the negative part that I conjure up in my mind is that it's not really defined well.

[1292] And it really, in the end, has no kind of definition really and means absolutely nothing.

[1293] Right.

[1294] There's no way to quantify whether you're a 97 and De Niro's a 96.

[1295] Yeah, if they want, if you want to talk, like if an actor, an artist, a painter, a musician, a writer, even a producer of whatever, some kind of art, if they want to talk about art and they want to get into a conversation about it, then I'm there like 100%.

[1296] Yeah, I'm there and I do not tire.

[1297] Like, that's my conversation.

[1298] Yeah.

[1299] That's where, that's my happy place.

[1300] but if they want to start giving accolades and shit like that that's like immediately it becomes you know super lame to me yeah and i have no tolerance for it whatsoever right and so i will go super super far to avoid that okay you know so but but i think it's yeah i think i've been smart enough until today did not even tell you i think you're a good actor no you've told me before okay but in a palatable way yeah but but yeah and I'm more kind of yeah yeah exactly and but it's not just it's not just the fact that somebody would tell me I'm a good actor it's it's the fact that I don't I just I don't even understand what it means to be that I understand what it means to do it like if you want to talk about it like mm -hmm you know then the mechanics of yeah I'm there and you know I'm willing to like learn anything you want to teach me and and vice versa but you know um because when i think of good actors like i think of them as like people who are you know are are are struggling to achieve a hundred percent and something that they can never achieve 100 percent in right and it's their struggle uh -huh that becomes their performance yeah and that's all it is to me so there's so you know um danio de louis is a great actor, right?

[1301] Because that struggle is like, you know, strong.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] Yeah.

[1304] Like he is struggling like a motherfucker.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] Even if you hate the movies in that you're watching, whatever, kind of like sucked into the whole.

[1307] Yeah.

[1308] The, him wrestle and the tiger.

[1309] So even that, even your nonsense that you go through when we were doing our scene together in that movie that you talked about earlier.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] That's that, when I, when I watch you doing your thing, I know that that's a struggle.

[1312] Like, I know that you're struggling to achieve that.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] And I know, through my experience, I know that what the outcome is going to be a performance.

[1315] Yeah.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] And that's legit.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] Okay, last thing.

[1320] You directed the movie called The Kid.

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] And it's a Western.

[1323] Yes.

[1324] And I'm not in it, you're sure?

[1325] Because you've wrapped.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] Well, we're actually doing sound design now and stuff.

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] So you don't think.

[1330] think I'll be in it.

[1331] I'm still thinking about it.

[1332] Okay, great.

[1333] But you're pretty sure I'm probably not going to be in it.

[1334] If I can find something for you.

[1335] Like I said, we're doing sound design and we're like, and the composers are coming in with the score and stuff.

[1336] But, you know, just give me some time.

[1337] Okay, great, great.

[1338] And did you, did you love it?

[1339] Making a movie is hard.

[1340] Uh -huh.

[1341] What part did you find hardest?

[1342] I don't have to tell you that.

[1343] You know that.

[1344] But I also think it's like cocaine.

[1345] I think it's the most electrifying thing you can do.

[1346] I mean, I think the fortunate thing for guys like us, though, is that, you know, if we do get the opportunity to do something, we can have friends around when we're doing it.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] Which is always a bonus.

[1349] Not everybody gets that.

[1350] Yeah, for sure.

[1351] You know, I think of, like, directors, the amount of movies that I've been on as an actor, and the director had basically didn't have any relationship with any of the actors.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] You know, and that's like the total opposite.

[1354] He's just the stepdad, basically.

[1355] So it's like our example is completely different than that.

[1356] Totally.

[1357] You know, like everybody on the film other than you was like a really good friend of mine.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] Or your child.

[1360] Yeah, or my child or my daughter.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] And hopefully that will remain like that.

[1363] Like if they ever let me make another one, you know, then then I'm going to do like, you know, a different story, obviously.

[1364] but it's going to be, you know, done in the same way.

[1365] It was extraordinary for me, actually.

[1366] Yeah, it's rewarding, huh?

[1367] Yeah.

[1368] And it's Chris Pratt, who you're really good friends with, right?

[1369] Ethan.

[1370] Ethan.

[1371] Ethan.

[1372] Right.

[1373] Dane Dahon.

[1374] He's on your best friends, right?

[1375] You and Ethan.

[1376] You do plays together and stuff.

[1377] Mm -hmm.

[1378] You exclude me from a lot of things.

[1379] A lot of stuff, yeah.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] And who else?

[1382] Dane DeHahn.

[1383] Okay.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] And you act in it?

[1386] I did a little part in it of a, I played a sheriff, which I...

[1387] Love to do.

[1388] Yeah, which is just awesome.

[1389] You almost do exclusively now, right?

[1390] I do a lot.

[1391] I do a lot.

[1392] I play a lot of law enforcement.

[1393] And I'm happy to do it.

[1394] And this kid, Jake Scher, who's fantastic, who plays the actual kid in the movie.

[1395] And my daughter, Layla George, is in it.

[1396] And we shall see.

[1397] Yeah, yeah.

[1398] Well, I hope you'll include me at least in.

[1399] coming to see it since you seem to not be a i'm not going to act in it it appears i'm still certain i wish that you would just take my word for that i'm still thinking about okay okay i don't know why that's so hard that's your own shit that's not my shit that's true that's your shit i wouldn't hire me for a western between you and i even if i was directed i don't think no but there there is this other thing that if i do get another chance to do and i'll say this on on podcast okay I thought of this wonderful idea.

[1400] Really wonderful idea, actually.

[1401] Okay.

[1402] And it's called The Big Dreamer.

[1403] Uh -huh.

[1404] And it is about a Mexican child.

[1405] I'd play the Mexican child?

[1406] Well, no. That's not what I was thinking.

[1407] If you were under the understanding I was going to say that you were in this movie, I'm sorry.

[1408] Sorry, you totally misunderstood me. I'm so sorry.

[1409] It really seemed like it was going that way.

[1410] Yeah, that's a misdirect for sure.

[1411] Yeah, you said you're all thinking about.

[1412] This story that I'm going to tell nothing to do with you actually oh okay this is a totally different thing it's only about me and i'll try really hard to stay interested in it doesn't have anything to do with me no i actually thought of this other story that you would have you be in it i would ask you to be in it whether you did it or not would be your own well i would absolutely do anything yeah i've always said that i would be in an arby's commercial with you if you asked i would do an arby's commercial with you they don't let me do commercials which is something that i've talked to you about before and you also ignore it or you agree with me, which is both a little disturbing for me because my thing is that they don't let me do commercials, like not even like radio, not even like voice stuff.

[1413] I got a pretty decent voice.

[1414] Yeah, I like it a lot.

[1415] Especially when I go like here like this.

[1416] When you get up on the mic, yeah, yeah.

[1417] But I think, what's your theory?

[1418] My theory, and you agreed with it, whether you'll agree with it today is, you know, just your own fickle way.

[1419] Okay.

[1420] But you said, said it's because you look at me and like why would you ever buy something from this fucking guy like who would want to buy something i i feel like i'm remembering what i responded with what was your response i think people think you wouldn't do it i actually think that's what's going on well there's two things you've also kind of edged out or or staked claim on this you're a great bad guy you know you're you're often playing a bad guy right so yeah i'm not going to be like you know, if you want to sell me a mattress or something and you're like giggling in bed, I'm going to think you just murdered someone and then you're giggling yourself silly.

[1421] Right.

[1422] So you're a victim a little bit of your...

[1423] But in the end, that's a hook, isn't it?

[1424] Depends on the product, yeah.

[1425] Yeah, I mean, I think you could be in a commercial like a Citibank commercial where you're a bad guy.

[1426] You're robbing the bank.

[1427] Yeah, you're like killing everyone and then you say...

[1428] What's in your wallet?

[1429] That was great.

[1430] Great, yeah, the way you just said what's in your wallet.

[1431] Yeah.

[1432] And then you just take their wallet out and you shove it in their mouth or something.

[1433] You know what I think it is?

[1434] What is it?

[1435] Also, is I don't think that I know enough about sports.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] Like, do you?

[1438] This comes up a lot with you.

[1439] I know, but right though, like, but you do.

[1440] No. You just sound.

[1441] But I know it.

[1442] You act like you know less than you do.

[1443] I don't know anything.

[1444] Part of your identity is that you don't know about sports.

[1445] Dude, I don't know anything.

[1446] I know you say that, but I have dreams of it.

[1447] But if I say like that's, you know, three strikes you're out, you know what that means.

[1448] Oh, I know what that is.

[1449] Yes.

[1450] But I want to be one of those guys who, this is what I want to be.

[1451] And I'll never achieve this for my whole life.

[1452] It's sort of like playing Blanche in streetcar.

[1453] This is something that I'll never get to do.

[1454] It's like, you know those guys like, give me a team.

[1455] Give me a name of the team.

[1456] The Bulls.

[1457] Okay.

[1458] Those fucking bulls, those fucking guys, that guy's Teskees.

[1459] He's like 10 -1.

[1460] he does like a 55 in the ratio you know his stats are like off the charts him and hankster I saw hankster play uh 5 -9 one time and that's like numbers that people only can do that's better than haskell in 49 you know what I'm saying yeah I saw them play the starbats it was like 55 to 1 the guy made a hoop shot you couldn't fucking believe it the guy went down to court he did a long over the backflip and he was out of this world Those fucking guys, their stats are off the fucking charts.

[1461] Stuff that you've never seen before or ever realized could happen.

[1462] This is almost also a Trump in person.

[1463] I want to be one of those guys that can talk like that.

[1464] I remember in, you know, 59 the Yanks.

[1465] You know, that guy went five for nine.

[1466] He was a four -nine in the third.

[1467] So people start coming in, right?

[1468] They start coming in.

[1469] They're calling in the outfielders, right?

[1470] Yeah, yeah.

[1471] And this motherfucker aims at the dugout.

[1472] This guy's got a glove like a New York blimp.

[1473] It's like I'm fucking believable.

[1474] Yeah.

[1475] It's wet on one side, dry on the other.

[1476] You know what I'm saying.

[1477] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1478] This guy's like unbelievable.

[1479] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1480] And a soccer player, his brother, he's from San Juan.

[1481] His name is Domingo's Reckes.

[1482] He can hit a ball like unbelievable.

[1483] He can do like a two -sided and come off to the back flip.

[1484] Oh my God, this guy can score.

[1485] He does an underbelly of like 5 -9.

[1486] He's unbelievable.

[1487] Keep going back to 5 -9.

[1488] Yeah, well, 5 -9 or 2 -5.

[1489] The guy can do 20 and a 4 -beat.

[1490] I'm telling you, it's unbelievable.

[1491] And you really want to do that at some point.

[1492] Like I wish that, like I knew like that kind of stuff.

[1493] Look, look, you and I, the person will rename.

[1494] It would be really fun.

[1495] The person will remain nameless.

[1496] But I remember you and I were we both, we shared a boss for a minute.

[1497] And then I called you, oh, what's he like?

[1498] You talked to him first.

[1499] And you said, oh, man, he hit me with some sports metaphors.

[1500] And I didn't know what he was talking about.

[1501] Yeah, yeah.

[1502] And you were afraid that was going to be a big roadblock between the two of you, that this would be an uncrossable chasm because he was only going to speak in sports metaphors yeah and that never came to fruition never never you guys communicated just fine but i do remember this was an abnormally large issue for you it is he hit you with a couple sports metaphors because like those guys that are in control uh -huh like of everything yeah they they're like guys that know sports yeah like well that's weirdly the comfort in it right is like they they know all these numbers it gives them a sense of control right right but they also have control of like our careers in a way they like you know they put us in big movies and they get things financed and you know they're the kind of guys you want to say like you know fucking dickerson you know you really hit the five on the number two did you see him last week yeah i can't believe they sold out strafford for wisconsin i couldn't believe it the guy they traded him at five four it was unbelievable i was let's say i cast you as a coach in a movie i'd let you do that whole spiel yeah and then i'd bring you in for a d r and i would just give you a script of things that made sense but your intention would be there you know right like we'd have all the physicality we needed right yeah all right well i'm gonna try to get a back to the computer and write something where you're like you really bring a team back that would be awesome yeah you bring them you breathe life into them this this could be great for both of us um vinton and opero I love you thank you for coming to the armchair expert and um you know I think I'll what I heard is we're going to play it by ear whether or not you move in you know it was keep our minds open, play it by year, and maybe we'll get you.

[1503] Most likely that one ever happened.

[1504] That's right.

[1505] But still, it could be in the kids.

[1506] The windows open a little.

[1507] It's crap, right.

[1508] But it's not locked.

[1509] It's not locked.

[1510] It's pretty much locked.

[1511] There's a draft.

[1512] Okay.

[1513] It feels drafty.

[1514] What's the cocking?

[1515] Is it cocking?

[1516] Yeah, yeah.

[1517] This is cocking.

[1518] Oh, it's already been cocked.

[1519] It's been cocked.

[1520] You're making a very clear statement that this window will never be open.

[1521] Like it's a blow dryer.

[1522] Like it's a blow dryer cough.

[1523] It's like, cocked quick.

[1524] And there's a trash bag tape to get rid of the.

[1525] draft and the winner.

[1526] Okay.

[1527] I understand.

[1528] I can accept.

[1529] I can take a no. I love you so much.

[1530] And I don't know.

[1531] I guess we'll get you back on Twitter eventually so we can send love notes to each other publicly, which I always enjoy.

[1532] All right, night, night.

[1533] And now begins my favorite part of the show, Fact Check with Monica Patman.

[1534] She wants to do the fact check.

[1535] I thought maybe you were going to...

[1536] You thought I was going to...

[1537] Well, what song was that?

[1538] Wild thing.

[1539] Oh, damn.

[1540] Yeah, let's do it.

[1541] I thought maybe you were going to do a hollow -notes song again because you just went to the concert last night.

[1542] Oh, because I saw them last night.

[1543] What could I have done?

[1544] You already did one Let's see I can't go for that No How do I turn that into fact check I can't check the facts No I No can do I can't check your facts Yeah that's good I give it a four Yeah I like it Monica you're looking much better today You've kind of shooking off Shaking off Yeah I have a little more life In my body Just a bit Yeah your bottom's feeling better And your eyes are brighter And we're all going to benefit from that big swing in health yeah um all right this was your old buddy oh my good buddy vincentinoffrio yeah yeah and i'm gonna let the cat out of the bag okay save the cat we've recorded this a while ago yeah yeah he was visiting town and he came over to to party and then we decided to take it to the attic and then we kind of got um through having nothing to do with us wanting to release it more about other guests having projects that had to coincide with their releases vincent of course was it had to be generous and just let us get through that here we are yeah but why what it aged what aged bad no it didn't i had just forgotten a lot of of stuff we talked about oh okay and i forgot that this was a very magic heavy episode Oh, right.

[1545] And you love magicians.

[1546] Yeah.

[1547] Yeah.

[1548] I do.

[1549] I think they're really sexy.

[1550] It's so interesting to me. It really is.

[1551] I mean, I'm happy for magicians that are viewed as sexy.

[1552] Yeah, sure.

[1553] But I personally can't relate to what the sexiness is.

[1554] Because you think it's goofy.

[1555] Well, they're deceiving you.

[1556] That's the sexy part.

[1557] But I guess.

[1558] Or it's.

[1559] do you buy into the notion that there's actual magic at play no and then you think they're supernatural yeah and then there's special chosen ones yeah no no i but it's like they know something i don't know it's kind of like a teacher oh okay i guess that's a through line okay i think the teacher thing's different i think it's like you wanting approval from the person who gives out the approval like that's the dynamic of a teacher student inherently yeah that's definitely part of it but also they're just so in their element you know teachers sure they're they're dolphins in water so knowledgeable but if you think about it the role's almost reversed with you and a magician which is the magician is seeking your approval well they got it good news magicians you've got it it's just I don't know.

[1560] It really intrigues you.

[1561] It's mysterious and...

[1562] Ah, the dark arts.

[1563] Oh.

[1564] The occult.

[1565] I thought you were talking about Harry Potter.

[1566] Oh, well, I guess that does apply to Herons Potter.

[1567] I love Harry Potter.

[1568] I'm going to reread that.

[1569] I've already told the Terence Posner story out here, haven't I?

[1570] Should I save it if my best friend Aaron Weekly ever comes on?

[1571] Remember my Terrence Puzzis?

[1572] But I don't think you've told it on the podcast.

[1573] Okay.

[1574] I'm going to say that.

[1575] It's one of the best stories ever.

[1576] I'm just going to tell it.

[1577] Why not we're here?

[1578] Yeah, so my best friend Aaron Weekly was out visiting from Detroit.

[1579] This is probably 10 years ago.

[1580] And we were at a bar, and he was super drunk.

[1581] And he has zero awareness of movie, actors, celebrities, anything.

[1582] He just couldn't care less about any of it.

[1583] And we were at this karaoke bar at Korea, and he came out of the bathroom and his eyes were so huge and he goes holy shit i just saw fucking terence posner at the toilet and i go what he goes i saw fucking terence posner is at the urinal and i go who's terence posner and he goes the magician i go the magician terence posner I've never heard of him He goes Yeah you have He's a fucking magician At Hogwarts And right at that moment This guy walks out of the bathroom That I mean just barely Looks like Harry Potter He thought Harry Potter Was Terence Posner And this guy When I say he kind of looked like it I mean he was a foot taller than him He was much broader But I guess he had glasses That's pretty much what made him Terrence Posner.

[1584] That's such a good story.

[1585] Fucking Terrence Posner's in the toilet.

[1586] The magician.

[1587] The magician.

[1588] Also to call him a magician, he's a wizard.

[1589] Well, yeah, he is.

[1590] Oh, boy, so funny.

[1591] Okay, so you mentioned the book, The Game, which is about picking up ladies.

[1592] Landing Chicks.

[1593] Yeah, it's a yucky book.

[1594] Sure, sure.

[1595] not a book that we recommend men read no and it was also of its time like i don't think that book could even come out and gain popularity now like what was it 18 years ago or something that book was written yeah something it was i don't have the date in front of me but it was black leather and red satin it had gold writing on the cover oh okay so that kind of tells you already yeah do judge this book by its cover in this case that's true That's true.

[1596] Yeah, because the whole gist is like basically make women, give them a little bit of a dig.

[1597] Sure, lower their self -esteem of it.

[1598] Yes, so that, it's like give them a dig and then come back with like a half compliment so that they feel sort of relieved.

[1599] Hey, you're a fucking piece of shit.

[1600] I like your shoes.

[1601] Like that would that be an example?

[1602] No, like here's an example.

[1603] Is that a wig?

[1604] Oh, well, it still looks kind of real.

[1605] Oh, geez.

[1606] It's okay.

[1607] Is that a way?

[1608] Or you don't look like you work out, but that outfit hides it well.

[1609] Oh, Jennifer.

[1610] Yeah, they're not nice.

[1611] No. No. It sounds like psychological warfare to me. Or this is a little nicer, but I don't usually like acrylic nails, but yours look okay.

[1612] Oh, cool, dude.

[1613] Cool.

[1614] If a guy hit on me in that capacity, I go, kill.

[1615] He can give me his appeal.

[1616] I don't normally like high tops, but yours are passable.

[1617] Oh, cool.

[1618] Thanks.

[1619] Thanks for your opinion.

[1620] Yeah, so I guess the formula is a cut, a jab, and then a sort of a redeeming comment.

[1621] Mm -hmm.

[1622] Yeah.

[1623] Boy, boy.

[1624] Yeah, this is just all together.

[1625] So it's make her feel bad about herself and insecure so that when you come back with the semi -compliment, she'll be relieved that even though she has bad hair or bad nails or is a bit overwork.

[1626] wait a man still wants Oh wow Isn't that just disgusting?

[1627] I hope if someone says something like that to one of my daughters that they just light them up like a Christmas tree I don't even even in its gruesomeness I don't see it working on all people like I guess I definitely see that tactic working with like the captain of the cheerleading team who thinks her shit doesn't stink you could be like oh wow this guy doesn't i don't have this guy's approval i'm intrigued why doesn't he like me that that makes a little bit of sense at least psychologically yeah yeah but like someone who's just shit on all week long at school and then someone tells them that their fucking purse is cheap like i know but i feel like you would go the opposite direction with that person like you're the most beautiful person in here yeah you should that's the nice thing to say to anyone well even if it was manipulative it still be the more accurate way to do it.

[1628] Yeah, but maybe because there's a tiny compliment in there that they're like, yeah, I know, my nails.

[1629] Oh, but they kind of, they don't care, I guess.

[1630] Yeah, they're going to overlook it.

[1631] That's so close.

[1632] Terrible.

[1633] You all right?

[1634] I thought I saw UPS truck just storm into the driveway at like 25 miles an hour.

[1635] But what I saw is they did a U -turn in front of the gate, but it looked like they flew into the dirt.

[1636] portion i was like what's what first of all we don't get uPS deliveries here secondly that guy needs to drive an off road truck because he's good oh you wanted to offer him oh you were interesting yeah i wanted to sponsor him you weren't scared no i saw opportunity we have different brains we do yeah sometimes we have the same brain that's right um all right so you were struggling with a phrase and the phrases is under no uncertain terms and i think you found it eventually you were saying some other crazy stuff.

[1637] Boy, that doesn't even sound familiar to me. Under no uncertain terms?

[1638] That sounds like triple negative there.

[1639] Under no uncertain terms.

[1640] It's a double negative.

[1641] What the fuck does it mean?

[1642] There was so many nos and uns in there.

[1643] I'm not sure if it means you're certain of these terms are certain.

[1644] I think it means...

[1645] These terms are certain.

[1646] Under no uncertain terms so that means they're super certain, right?

[1647] I guess so.

[1648] No and on, don't they just cancel each other out?

[1649] Wouldn't be more efficient to just say in certain terms?

[1650] Yeah, would.

[1651] Yeah.

[1652] I sure would.

[1653] Well, good, I'm glad we cleared that one off the books.

[1654] Oh, okay, so you guys bonded over this idea about not wanting to accept things from other people.

[1655] You don't want to owe other people.

[1656] And that's not a good way to live.

[1657] Well, that's not quite a fact.

[1658] Well, I think it is a fact, actually.

[1659] I think it's a real fact that you're hurting yourself by doing that.

[1660] And I also do it sometimes, too, so I know that.

[1661] Now I think you're just critiquing my personality more than correcting.

[1662] I'm teasing.

[1663] You do it as well, though.

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] Well, sure, I offered, I would imagine, eight different times over the last five days of your illness to bring you something, send you something.

[1666] You know, you did not allow that.

[1667] Well, yes, yes, that's true.

[1668] But I don't have it for the same reason.

[1669] It's not because I don't want to return the favor.

[1670] Right, I love to return the favor.

[1671] Yours is more like, right, allowing yourself to be vulnerable and imperfect and needing help.

[1672] Well, I don't want to bother you.

[1673] Yeah.

[1674] I don't want to put you in it out.

[1675] Okay.

[1676] Yeah, but you know how much pleasure you get when you get to help someone else.

[1677] So why wouldn't you assume I'd get the same pleasure out of helping you?

[1678] Because I know you and I know you don't.

[1679] I do.

[1680] You see me deal with folks from the program, and I get great pleasure out of inconveniencing myself.

[1681] No, you're great at helping people, but I know that you don't like accepting help.

[1682] I think I like helping.

[1683] I came to your house and hung a mirror.

[1684] I know.

[1685] You've done so much for me. I'm not saying it you have.

[1686] Oh, and I'm not saying you're not grateful, but I'm saying, do you remember when I came and put, I installed two TVs in your house?

[1687] I was very happy doing that.

[1688] Yeah, that's true.

[1689] that's those are the that's the facts that is the facts that's true went and got a bed put it in the truck that was fun I guess I ask you for a lot of help well I guess what we've learned is that I do enjoy it and you do ask so we don't really have a problem great um no but I mostly I've had to force you to allow me to do those things because I have a truck the truck you're never going to get those TVs here and you didn't have a Costco membership so I was like if I don't step in here and regulate, you know?

[1690] The situation.

[1691] Regulators, mount up.

[1692] Do cops have a high rate of suicide?

[1693] Yes.

[1694] They don't have, it's about on par with the national average, but, you know, I know.

[1695] But it's still, there's a lot of articles about it being a problem.

[1696] Uh -huh.

[1697] Because, you know, they screen for, they screen for, like, mental health.

[1698] health and personality testing for all these law enforcement officers because they're about to go deal with a lot of sea and fear and deal with a lot.

[1699] It's a messy fucking job.

[1700] Yeah.

[1701] But it, you know, doesn't always work.

[1702] I think my claim was that they have a really high rate of alcoholism, which I did.

[1703] Oh, it was suicide.

[1704] Okay.

[1705] But do you think you must.

[1706] Well, I read a book that was written by a professor.

[1707] I had Joan Barker, an anthropologist, and she had written a book.

[1708] I want to say it was called like behind the thin blue line and it was all about the culture of of cops looking at from an anthropological lens and all these different customs they have like right you know um ceremonies that they have like when an officer's this was again this was back when she wrote this and did her field work but um they had this tradition that when an officer was killed in the line of duty they would go to the funeral but then they would go to a very public place like a park and they would have a kind of barbecue but they would get openly very drunk and kind is a weird way to process like well no fuck this we're human to watch us but you know like yeah that was one one thing I remembered about it that she witnessed that on a couple different occasions there's a lot of fascinating stuff yeah so magic oh back to magic magic um You said you thought there were some magicians clubs, and there are.

[1709] I guess the main one, some magicians can tell me if I'm wrong about this.

[1710] Oh, they will.

[1711] I know.

[1712] I'm excited to meet them.

[1713] The Society of American Magicians, S -A -M, is the oldest fraternal magic organization in the world.

[1714] I have to imagine that's a dude -heavy club.

[1715] I think so.

[1716] Yes, I do.

[1717] The real saisege party.

[1718] It's a fraternal magic organization.

[1719] That must mean it is boys only.

[1720] Or maybe it started as a man only.

[1721] They probably don't need to state boys only.

[1722] I can't imagine any place I'd feel safer as a woman.

[1723] There's a bunch of dudes that can do slide a hand and haven't hung with a woman in a while.

[1724] I'm sorry, I'm painting a disparaging view of magicians.

[1725] I don't know.

[1726] It just seems like one of these things that you practice in your room a lot.

[1727] You know, you get good at it.

[1728] It seems like a solitary endeavor.

[1729] It's not like being on a soccer team.

[1730] Yes, that's true.

[1731] But even to be very good at anything, even soccer, you have to spend some time by yourself working on it, kicking balls into the goal.

[1732] One can't spend time by themselves as a tennis player and get better.

[1733] That's true.

[1734] That's true.

[1735] But basketball.

[1736] You could work on your shot, yeah.

[1737] But you can't like a point guard.

[1738] You do dribble around cones, I guess.

[1739] Yeah, it's hard to play baseball by yourself.

[1740] You have that little machine, that shoot.

[1741] Oh, that's tennis.

[1742] You can't play tennis.

[1743] You can do tennis.

[1744] Well, yeah.

[1745] You could learn to return a ball from a machine pretty good.

[1746] Yeah.

[1747] Oh, speaking of that.

[1748] So Vincent doesn't know anything about sports.

[1749] We hate sports metaphors.

[1750] As we saw.

[1751] And he was spouting a lot of pretend jargon.

[1752] And so, yeah, I just don't want people to accidentally think that was real sports.

[1753] stuff.

[1754] That was made -up sorts.

[1755] Yeah.

[1756] Okay, a Colombian necktie.

[1757] You mentioned that very quickly.

[1758] I didn't know what that was.

[1759] It's gruesome.

[1760] Yeah, it is.

[1761] It's a mutilation used in South America wherein the victim's throat would be slashed horizontally with a knife or other sharp object in his or her tongue pulled out through the open wound.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] Oh.

[1764] And that resembles a necktie.

[1765] But I think there were some Colombian neckties made their way stateside during the Miami cocaine heyday of the 80s.

[1766] I think some people might have gotten some Colombian neckties.

[1767] And when they pulled the tongue out, do they tie it into a bow?

[1768] I don't know that there's enough tongue to fashion into a...

[1769] What if our body was all tongue, actually?

[1770] What if you were a Colombian assassin and you were known for the Colombian bow tie?

[1771] Ew, and so it's just a tiny tongue sticking out of your neck.

[1772] That is so disgusting.

[1773] I do wonder if it's ever even happened if this is just one of these urban legends because think about how much work is probably involved in pulling the tongue out in that manner.

[1774] You'd almost have to be probably a physician.

[1775] I wonder how far down our tongues go.

[1776] To your anus.

[1777] No, you could definitely tie it to a bow.

[1778] A nice big flop.

[1779] That is a good question.

[1780] And they can't, I feel like mine ends.

[1781] Before you even get there.

[1782] To your esophagus.

[1783] Yeah.

[1784] So maybe the whole thing's bullshit.

[1785] But it does paint, oh, an interesting visual.

[1786] Yeah, and it didn't say it was fake.

[1787] It's like a Chicago smile.

[1788] You know what a Chicago smile is.

[1789] Uh -oh, what's that?

[1790] I'm scared of that.

[1791] It's equally horrific.

[1792] It was, if you saw America History X, Edward Norman, and he makes a guy put his mouth on the curb.

[1793] Oh, yeah.

[1794] Yeah.

[1795] I've just heard that as curbing.

[1796] Curbing, yeah.

[1797] I think it's also called the Chicago Smile.

[1798] I thought when you just said that, my guess was the Joker.

[1799] Oh, sure.

[1800] Oh, Christ, let's get off this topic.

[1801] Okay.

[1802] So, John Belushi died at the Chateau Marmau.

[1803] Marmal.

[1804] Marmal.

[1805] But I don't know if anyone, I'm sure other people did too, but he's the most famous person to die there.

[1806] You were talking about the chateau.

[1807] Being a factory of overdoses?

[1808] Yeah, that it's just, you know, that it's a place of...

[1809] Your repute?

[1810] Yeah.

[1811] It's a really lovely place.

[1812] I really liked it.

[1813] Yeah, we went for my birthday a couple years ago, remember?

[1814] Yeah, I had a nice bolognese.

[1815] Yeah, that's your favorite.

[1816] I just learned in the Robin Williams documentary that's on Showtime that he was with him that night.

[1817] Oh, really?

[1818] That he died?

[1819] Mm -hmm.

[1820] Yeah.

[1821] He had been with him.

[1822] with him and then he went to work on Morke and Mindy and then received the news from a co -star Yeah, in fact he was part of like an investigation that happened There was footage of him walking into a court Oh, really?

[1823] Yeah Oof, so sad.

[1824] Speedball.

[1825] All of it's sad.

[1826] It is.

[1827] All right, well you said you haven't cried in two years and that's not true because I saw you cry Well, yeah, let's, let's delineate the differences now between crying because I will often say, I mean, I really haven't cried in 30 years.

[1828] But you mean like, bawling.

[1829] Yeah, like where I can't talk and stuff, which I want to do so bad.

[1830] Yeah, I want you to.

[1831] Yeah, but you did see me like tear to streaming down my cheeks and my voice a little quivery.

[1832] Yeah.

[1833] And you got a real thrill out of it.

[1834] Yeah, it was sweet.

[1835] And I'm going to tell everyone why it happened.

[1836] Okay.

[1837] Yeah.

[1838] We were showing the kids some videos of, what are they called?

[1839] They're not flash mobs.

[1840] No, they're just like choreographed dances that people make to certain songs.

[1841] Yeah, like wedding dances, people do.

[1842] The one, the proposal was the one that kicked it off.

[1843] Yes, yes.

[1844] If I want to marry you.

[1845] Yeah.

[1846] Yeah, it's a Bruno Mars song, I think.

[1847] Oh, so cute.

[1848] Even thinking about it, I get in a little emotion.

[1849] Because they bring, you know, their whole family and friends.

[1850] Well, a guy sets a woman in the back of a hatchback and he puts headphones on her and he pushes play.

[1851] And then this whole thing just unfolds and the car is driving down the road and more and more people from their life keep joining.

[1852] Jumping and this choreograph thing and they're all lip singing.

[1853] It's overwhelming.

[1854] It's really sweet.

[1855] But that wasn't the one that brought me to my knee.

[1856] No, no, no. Then we turned on an airplane version of Call Me Maybe, where it was, I guess, the Olympic swimmers.

[1857] A bunch of Olympians had, like, we're on a chartered flight over to Sochi or something.

[1858] Sure.

[1859] And that song was popular.

[1860] That song was popular.

[1861] It came on, and they all did a little choreograph dance to it.

[1862] And then I would turn around and there are tears coming out of your eyes.

[1863] And I had never seen that before.

[1864] And you remember what I said, why I was so choked up?

[1865] No. Is that it's just so hard to do something that's vulnerable and beautiful.

[1866] And so many people on your high school are calling you a fag or a pussy or a wimp because you're letting your heart out.

[1867] And when people do that against all odds, it just really warms my heart.

[1868] Yeah.

[1869] It's very sweet.

[1870] but it's also pretty interesting because that's funny I didn't remember you saying that and I when I watch those things I'm just I'm just smiling like it makes me really happy but but I don't have that thing you just said right I don't have this thing where I feel like I need like I was going to be called to any of those bad words you just said yeah So I don't have this thing of like, oh, they, like, are overcoming that.

[1871] Right, right.

[1872] Yeah, I think being a boy where I grew up in the 80s and 90s, like to even say you loved your friend out loud, you were opening yourself up to a potential shove in the back later in the day.

[1873] Yeah, it was, you know, yeah, people seem to be really threatened by any of that.

[1874] I hope that's changed.

[1875] It's hard to know because we live in Los Angeles, what's very gooey.

[1876] Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

[1877] So I don't know, but I would like that to change.

[1878] I stopped by my hometown a few years ago, and I went to this dam that we used to jump off of.

[1879] And I kind of watched these, like, junior high kids play.

[1880] And it was my conclusion that not much had changed.

[1881] Oh, wow.

[1882] That's kind of what I cleaned from the whole thing.

[1883] All right.

[1884] That's really it.

[1885] Oh, great.

[1886] Yeah.

[1887] Well, you know, I think the two most.

[1888] important things we learned on this fact check is if you want an express lane to monica's heart learn some slight a hand and some card tricks it doesn't have to be card it could be of any variety oh okay yeah i don't want to put anyone in a box vincent got into a bag and jumped into a swimming pool still a very hard to believe story i'm going to take them at face value but what a story Yeah, and then the fast train to my heart is, you know, do a video and let your heart out and, you know, open yourself up to ridicule and just push on through.

[1889] Yeah, that's right.

[1890] I love you, Monica.

[1891] I love you.

[1892] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast.

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