22 - The Girls with the Episode Twenty Two

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Welcome, everybody, to my favorite murder, the podcast, the highly professional, true crime, podcast.

[17] that asks the question, what if two women who were slightly interested in true crime and had a free time on their hands and like to have conversations and make up facts and not do a lot of research, how to podcast?

[18] We need to start this over.

[19] No, I love it.

[20] No, you do one.

[21] Hey, everyone.

[22] This is my favorite murder, a podcast where we talk about our favorite murders, which is kind of insulting to people who.

[23] have been murdered but we don't mean it that way we're trying to be fucking cool and interested and like we have so much like empathy right that's our whole thing with our tagline okay are we are you blowing this should we do another one or just going to keep doing what like welcome to what the fuck starring mark marron oh my god our listenership just went up so high oh my god we'll steal listeners from Maron.

[24] We'll convert them to our way of thinking about murder.

[25] Yep.

[26] Which is with very little fact.

[27] Right.

[28] Which is just kind of conversational.

[29] I'm good.

[30] It's nice to see you.

[31] I saw you, Georgia, last night briefly, at a comedy show where there was no air conditioning.

[32] And we both looked like we were crossing paths in a sauna, essentially, is what it looked like.

[33] Well, if the podcast, I'm not for sure, I'm not for sure, but if this is coming out a day late, It's because we normally record on Monday, but my apartment was so fucking disgustingly hot, and I, and I don't, and I have TV money.

[34] I have base, I have, I have cooking channel money.

[35] Yeah, you have TV money, which is the, which isn't what TV money used to be.

[36] It's now radio money.

[37] Right.

[38] So I live in a one bedroom apartment with no fucking air conditioning.

[39] That's what I'm trying.

[40] And on Monday and Sunday, it was like 106.

[41] Yeah.

[42] It was over 100 degrees in Los Angeles.

[43] And so my living room was like a, it was like a jacuzzi.

[44] It felt like a jacuzzi.

[45] Yeah.

[46] So we're doing it instead on Wednesday and we're sorry, but.

[47] Yeah.

[48] It's a weather delay.

[49] It's a legit weather delay.

[50] And a lot of Los Angeles is being affected this way because the stupid comedy show, I don't know if their air conditioning broke or if they had some kind of blackout or brown out or something.

[51] But they couldn't.

[52] So it was like a full on comedy show with a full audience.

[53] had to open the side door.

[54] When I was on stage, there was nothing.

[55] Cop cars went by and ruined my Bjork bit.

[56] Your Bjork bit was so good.

[57] It was, people did not laugh at all.

[58] And I wonder if it just because it was like two cop cars or an ambulance, whatever was going on by.

[59] Did you hear me loudly cackling in the back?

[60] Was that you?

[61] Yeah.

[62] I'm supportive with, I learned a long time ago from someone who used to, like I know in comedy, should I say it, who it is.

[63] Sure.

[64] Ed Salazar.

[65] Oh, yeah.

[66] when he I hated being near him when he was at a comedy show because he would laugh super loud and clap when he laughed which like laugh clapping is my least everything in the world and he had this like ha ha like loud laugh yeah one day I was like what the fuck and he was like I'm being supportive of my friends I want them to know when they're on stage that I am laughing out loud and making people around me laugh too and I was yes oh that's why I do it too you like get trained as a stand up that you have to let your friends you know the feeling that they're having on stage, which is usually the world hates my guts.

[67] And you're kind of trying to earn back from that below zero feeling.

[68] And so when you're, when you are genuinely make your comedian friends laugh in the audience, they know they have to let you know.

[69] Yeah.

[70] Because that's basically saying don't stop doing that bit.

[71] Right.

[72] There's no like, there's no under your breath gaffa.

[73] It's like, no, it's like, ha ha, which I fucking love and I do now.

[74] And I'm like, I'll do it so loud.

[75] And I don't care.

[76] Now I'm thinking there were a. couple moments where I was laughing at a certain laugh and I'm pretty sure it was you I go yeah is that it yeah because it almost sounded sarcastic but I was like don't don't go into how you think a person is sarcastically laughing at you when that's probably not happening I need to change her I'll go ha well now that I know that she's going to make me laugh instead of being defensive because someone didn't make a weird I did the first joke I did in the as the laughter was ebbing because the first joke went fine.

[77] Then someone, and it sounded like a drunk dude, went, yeah.

[78] And it was that kind of thing that makes me want to jump off the stage and strangle someone.

[79] Hold on though.

[80] Was that in the back?

[81] I don't know.

[82] Because there was a joke you did about the Yucca corridor.

[83] Yes.

[84] Where you used to live in Hollywood.

[85] Right.

[86] And you went, I lived in the Yucca corridor.

[87] And there was a guy in front of me who like went, yeah, genuinely was like, used to live there.

[88] And I'm from L .A. almost, and I didn't know what that was.

[89] So I think that maybe that's who it was No, no, I know what you're talking about And that was like he was trying to support Because, but that was the setup of a joke It wasn't the punchline This was after the punchline And it was basically someone Making a sarcastic comment like I kind of don't agree with you Is what it sounded like Can I tell you when I'm like this moment I go back to you know the shamies Like the next day after you were drinking You're like this I did this thing And I'm so ashamed of it I have one from like 2007 that I still like think about about I was at a comedy show and I went nope at something and I want to and it was a friend who was on stage but it was still like and I remember a couple comedians that I'm friends with turned around to see who said that and I still think of it and get this like coochy twinge of like of shame you know that like oh can't believe I did that oh my God that sounds that is that in a nutshell is what I was like when I was drinking although I was drunk I would never have a twinge about it I would be like and that's the least I'm gonna say right you're lucky I'm not yeah that's why I kind of try not to get too drunk at comedy shows because like I don't want to like fucking say anything no I know it's it's it's for me it was a lot of bad behavior would take place because like at the old Largo we would stand in the back and then the comedian would be on stage there would be these people that paid money and waited in line eating dinner eating dinner to watch the show and then the comics would stand in the back and talk to each other while other people.

[90] I'm sure we did, right?

[91] My friend and I were like, we don't have dinner.

[92] We're like the cool ones who go in the back and stand.

[93] You'd stand by the sound booth?

[94] Yeah.

[95] So here's what I used to do.

[96] And maybe you remember this.

[97] Because I, this was, I stopped drinking right when that show started.

[98] Yeah.

[99] We would all be talking and I would of course be laughing at like not at the comic, but at things my friends were saying.

[100] And if anybody would turn around who was standing in the audience area?

[101] Shut the fuck up.

[102] I'd literally go, turn around.

[103] Uh -huh.

[104] Like a high school bully.

[105] It was one of my favorite things to do.

[106] Imagine how broken I am inside.

[107] You would have hated me. You would have been so mean to me if we had met back then.

[108] Are you the kind of person that would turn around and try to give me a dirty look?

[109] No. I think if one of my friends are on stage and someone's talking a lot, I'll do it and be like, you know, shut the fuck up.

[110] I probably would have enjoyed that.

[111] Yeah.

[112] I think it's the passive aggression.

[113] I was just obnoxious.

[114] I don't think you would have liked me because I was like a hipster.

[115] like an anorexic hipster I like rode my Vespa to, I'm not kidding, I rode my Vespa to Largo to watch like alternative comedians Yeah I probably wouldn't have like him I was like 21 Well I wouldn't have liked you on the surface Right But also I wasn't confident enough to like Be cool Right around you The way I was We met when I was in Not anorexic anymore I'm in my 30s Well you had your You had your own you know with identity going.

[116] But I have a, in my opinion, anorexia and my eating disorder are very similar where it's just a, it's the equal opposite where it's just, it's a weird body.

[117] Like binging?

[118] Is that what you think you have?

[119] Is that what you think you have?

[120] Is that what you think you do?

[121] See, we have so much in common.

[122] Is that what you're claiming?

[123] Oh my God.

[124] It's a total cat party.

[125] it's oh god this is a mess right now i got a kitten i'm fostering a kitten and my cats are fucking rebelling and i'm sorry and no it's fine all right um so we have some housekeeping oh yeah you want to go first one me uh oh well i just needed to say that um in my classic style when i did uh the story about the uh evil nurse uh from the 1800s that like to kill people last week correction yeah okay um Because she used to do a combo of morphine and atropine.

[126] Did you see this?

[127] No. I always forget, A, that I'm talking to other people besides you, and B, that a lot of those people are medical from the medical profession.

[128] They have studied and gone to school.

[129] That's no problem.

[130] I'm just, as I was reading my very light research, I just assumed that atropine would be the opposite of morphine.

[131] But actually, because of all the genius people that we have on our Facebook page, I learned from a person who I believe is either an RN or a medical registered person.

[132] I can't remember.

[133] It was like three people who were like a doctor or a nurse and someone else.

[134] Yeah, I'll correct my correction.

[135] but they basically said atropine is the drug that stopped the um what's it called uh the death rattle which is this the final sounds that you make that go on and on that terrible breathing at the end of life i assumed atropine was some kind of an upper i thought she was giving them uppers and downers with their uppity and downs yeah like killing them and bringing them back but but that was just me assuming Wait, so they're also downers.

[136] They're also downers.

[137] It's just different ways of shutting people's systems down.

[138] I literally wouldn't care if you ever corrected that.

[139] I know, but I have, I'm correcting it because I have a bad habit of making assumptions that are like, I make assumptions about medical knowledge and stuff like that.

[140] So you think if you had said, I don't know what they are, you wouldn't have cared?

[141] Or is it because you assume you because you explain the thing?

[142] I'm saying it as if I know it for a fact.

[143] And it's because my mom was a nurse, so I'd hear her use terminology.

[144] So I was like, I know what atropin is.

[145] Well, of course I fucking don't know what atropin is.

[146] No, that's fair.

[147] Man, I say Giddish words that don't mean the right thing all the fucking time because I heard my grandma say it.

[148] Well, you can apologize for that on your Yiddish podcast, but I have nothing to do it.

[149] It's actually Yiddish true crime podcast.

[150] It was that.

[151] And the only, the other house game I have is just somebody made a really good point.

[152] They were offended when we were talking about, um, Matt Dwyer's hometown murder and the kid not making eye contact.

[153] There was somebody that was really hurt by the fact that it was like only psychos don't make eye contact.

[154] And we of course don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

[155] There was a big long thread with a ton of people saying, I also have this problem.

[156] It makes me feel bad.

[157] I didn't like that part.

[158] And of course we apologize for that.

[159] Oh, you guys, I'm so sorry.

[160] What a fucking...

[161] But we do that because we're just talking to each other.

[162] And this is a casual conversation that we often forget that we're making these mistakes.

[163] And you and I are both people that like exaggerate, not exaggerate in that it's not correct, just like go to the end of every single thing.

[164] We get into it of like, we're a Matt Dwyer and now we're walking next to the guy that won't make eye contact with us.

[165] And yes.

[166] So we.

[167] Both Gemini's is what we're saying.

[168] I'm a torus.

[169] Fuck.

[170] Never mind.

[171] I'm going to go ahead and make a correction from a minute.

[172] From the correction box, it's a subset correction.

[173] But this is the point that I really liked in this thread.

[174] There's a bunch of people making each other feel better, which I really love.

[175] And that seems to be what happens on our Facebook page.

[176] But also, there was a guy who made this great point, which I really liked, which is that more commonly, a sociopath or a psychopath makes too much eye contact.

[177] Because they are trying to read your face so they can manipulate you.

[178] so they often will stare at you for way longer than is natural and something that I know from reading they don't blink a lot wait it's not because I'm so beautiful that they can't take their eyes off of me it's that too Georgia but also they're trying to figure out they're trying to as this guy was talking about reading micro expressions figuring out like what's triggering you or scaring you or whatever so they can manipulate you more but also the thing of like people who are like that who know they should be making eye contact they just do it and don't understand how natural it should be.

[179] And so they do it, overdo it, right?

[180] Yes.

[181] You know what I mean?

[182] Yes.

[183] You're talking about sociopaths, right?

[184] Yeah.

[185] Exactly right.

[186] And that obviously there's a range.

[187] And so, but the, I just thought it was an interesting point of being like actually the the people who you really should look out for the people that make too much eye contact, which is really true.

[188] Well, I'm sorry to those people that we offended about the eye contact thing.

[189] We overdid it and I, yeah.

[190] Yeah.

[191] And it's going to happen.

[192] Yeah.

[193] It's going to, it happens a lot.

[194] Yeah.

[195] If you're in this for the long haul, which ends without killing someone.

[196] It is a podcast, by the way.

[197] Yeah.

[198] Oh, and I want to do a housekeeping of, okay, you guys, the t -shirts that you ordered and thank you.

[199] And that was, I'm so excited to see all your photos of you and your t -shirts.

[200] So this was our first t -shirt that we've done.

[201] And it's taking a little longer.

[202] And it was a pre -order.

[203] I'm getting a lot of emails of people saying, I ordered my shirt at this time, whereas it's, So it was a pre -order, which means once the orders closed, I think it was on June 6th, I sent them to the company, VG Kids, that are doing the screen printing for them, which is happening right now.

[204] Then they're going to get sent to that there's another company called Whiplash that does all the order for filling.

[205] So I'm hoping by the end of June everyone will have their orders.

[206] And I'm sorry it's taking so long.

[207] It's a learning curve.

[208] Next time we do T -shirts, which I think we're going to do is stay sexy, don't get murdered shirt next by, again, by Michael Ramstead, who's such a fucking.

[209] talented artist.

[210] He's the one who's doing the shirts that we have coming out right now.

[211] I'm going to make it a shorter window of buying time.

[212] Well, and also we can just remind people more.

[213] A pre -order is basically like this is eight weeks wait time.

[214] Yeah.

[215] And the reason we do that is because some companies won't print shirts one at a time and also want to make sure you have a big enough order that they're making money off of it, which is totally understandable.

[216] And it was our first timeout ever.

[217] So we didn't know if we were going to sell 20 shirts or 100 shirts.

[218] Totally.

[219] Totally.

[220] So the are coming out and I'm and there you go you're going to get them and everyone's going to get them at the same time which is kind of fun along with us yeah yeah is it can we wear our own pod is it like your own band shirt can we wear our podcast I think I'll wear mine around the house yeah I mean it would be weird for us it's going to be weird to me for me to wear a shirt with a cartoon of me on it I don't that's not my style okay you can oh thanks I mean I won't judge you I'm saying I didn't mean that sounds so bitchy.

[221] We're not fighting.

[222] We just simply aren't.

[223] We just both have sarcastic voices.

[224] It's our tone.

[225] Should we get into it?

[226] Yes.

[227] There was one more piece of housekeeping and I really want to remember and now I can't.

[228] Is it about me asking the Facebook page for help with this week's murder?

[229] And I cues you of cheating and then someone valiantly came to your defense.

[230] Thank you.

[231] Thanks Vince.

[232] My husband.

[233] He's on there as a disguised as a woman?

[234] Yeah.

[235] No. We could think of it later if you think of it.

[236] Okay.

[237] Doesn't have to be up top.

[238] Hey, this is exciting.

[239] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[240] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[241] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[242] Who killed Saz?

[243] And were they really after Charles?

[244] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[245] This season, murder hits close to home.

[246] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[247] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[248] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[249] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[250] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[251] Only murders in the building, premieres, August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[252] Goodbye.

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[272] Goodbye.

[273] Yeah, so last week, we had a challenge where we're going to have a topic.

[274] And it's 1 ,500s.

[275] 1500s.

[276] The reason I called you a tutor is because when you, you asked that, one of the first things that people posted was the one I wanted to do.

[277] Right.

[278] I went on, okay, here's my problem.

[279] I think 1500, I think anything pre -1800 is boring as fuck.

[280] I just, I really don't care.

[281] Well, well, now we know that.

[282] We didn't know that before.

[283] I didn't even know that where I was like, I don't fucking, who cares?

[284] You fucking, like, you and your corsets and your, God, there was so much, um, Latin.

[285] There's a lot of Latin.

[286] And there was, a lot of calling people a witch and then just slowly murdering them like if they owed you money or you wanted their seat totally and then there's just so much like so much that is lore at that point yes that isn't interesting like to me it's like this thing happened in the 1920s like that was so recent yeah and so interesting and and also like he's going to step all over your computer and ruin your files it's cats this is hot cat action this is what it's like.

[287] I'm used to it.

[288] I'm just, I really like that I'd be able to put myself in someone's shoes.

[289] And if the shoes are like made of fucking fox skin and they're like, and they haven't invented laces yet and they like, you know, I just don't care.

[290] What about old clogs?

[291] Absolutely not.

[292] Truly wouldn't.

[293] No. Legitimately wouldn't.

[294] That sounds so uncomfortable.

[295] Yeah.

[296] What if they had nice high arches like arch support?

[297] They don't.

[298] I'm still a peasant.

[299] I'm saying dream clogs.

[300] Okay.

[301] No. I would never wear clogs.

[302] I love clogs.

[303] I'm sorry.

[304] I think it's interesting, but when I went to read about it, there was just a lot of, like, extra ease on the end of words and stuff where I was like, there's no way I'm reading that because it looks like something like an old monk wrote in calligraphy.

[305] Yeah, exactly.

[306] And I love a murder where I can be like, oh, that, like, someone will write it and be like, that was my grandfather or my grandfather.

[307] from the town that that happened.

[308] And I think it's, and he always said this.

[309] And I mean, that can't happen.

[310] And so I wrote on the Facebook page, can someone fucking tell me their favorite 1500 murder?

[311] Because I really don't know what mine is.

[312] Like, I just don't have one.

[313] And then there was a great one.

[314] Yeah.

[315] Yeah.

[316] And I ended up using the one I kind of originally had thought of, um, this chick that everyone wanted to do, but like has been overdone.

[317] But the chick who bathed in blood.

[318] Bathory.

[319] Yeah.

[320] What a fucking cut.

[321] I mean, but or or was she being persecuted by the whatever church cat is probably cath way yeah who just spread these rumors about her to like get her under there except for there were witnesses but see that's the thing is like i was reading that and i'm like oh no it is real they are witnesses but this was back in the in those times it was like those the witch hunt shit went from like the 1400s to the 1700s or something plus at that time the people who wrote the history who wrote the books of what happened could be shady as fuck too.

[322] Yeah.

[323] It's not like it's journalism the way it is today, which is still pretty fucking shady.

[324] It's like you know.

[325] So wait, did you do her?

[326] No. Oh, okay.

[327] Because I think who just did was it someone just did a whole whole episode on her.

[328] Oh, okay.

[329] So I wasn't interested.

[330] Oh, okay.

[331] So fuck them.

[332] We've been the week that I did the nurse.

[333] Some other crime podcast did the nurse, too.

[334] I was really sad.

[335] Sorry.

[336] I did not know.

[337] I'm fucking sorry.

[338] Look, I'm sorry.

[339] Yeah, someone did mind.

[340] Yeah.

[341] I mean, they're just going to overlap.

[342] So I think it's me or you.

[343] It's either me or you.

[344] Or Elvis.

[345] I think it might be me. Okay.

[346] Pretty sure.

[347] I don't, I mean, who cares, right?

[348] I mean, who gives a fuck.

[349] I did the Sauny Bean clan Do you know those people?

[350] Which one were?

[351] No, I mean, which one were they?

[352] Tell me in a story.

[353] Why don't I tell you story style?

[354] Do it.

[355] Lay your head back.

[356] On a cat.

[357] Close your eyes.

[358] It's on a cat.

[359] The Sonny Bean clan is an infamous Scottish family from either the 1400s or the 1700s.

[360] Let's say the 14th.

[361] they why don't we know because it's this kind of it's almost like a scottish urban legend that they have attributed to several different eras um and it's because they think this one is definitely a propaganda that the english government used to make scottish people look like barbarian yes um and deviants but let's talk about it as if it's real first and then we'll talk about that part later Love it.

[362] So if he was real, this story and the details from it are the source of horror films like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Ravanous, The Hills Have Eyes.

[363] Really?

[364] Yeah, because it's a family of cannibals.

[365] And it's a family of cannibals who live in a hidden cave who were a huge, incestuous, incestuous clan that only came out at night and they were highway robbers so people would travel along these roads along the Scottish countryside that was kind of like along the coast and they would be trying to go between one city and the other and the Sawny Bean clan would come out from their cave that was hidden at high tide so no one knew where they were and they would go out in the night hide a a highway traveler would go by on their horse and this clan of of inbred uh cannibals would jump out pull them off their horse murder them steal their shit kill their horse drag it all back to the cave which apparently uh went a mile underground sounds like pretty sweet eggs yes and they would eat the meat of the people and then they had big piles of possessions So it was almost like a treasure cave, but also filled with horrors and blood and whatnot.

[366] So the head of it was Alexander Bean, who was born in the 1500s in East Lothian, Scotland, which is a few miles outside of Edinburgh on the east coast of Scotland.

[367] And they don't know that much about the details of his life.

[368] They do know, they kept saying that he was like, he was the son of like a ditch digger and a hedge truck.

[369] or something like that.

[370] So basically like his father was a hardworking, you know, working class man. And they kept saying that he was lazy.

[371] Alexander Bean was lazy.

[372] He didn't want to do hard work.

[373] And so he basically left his family where his only option was to do what his father did.

[374] He met up with a woman who also didn't want to do hard work.

[375] And her name was Black Agnes Douglas, which is probably my favorite name to date in the research of this podcast.

[376] Um, so Black Agnes, Douglas, and Alexander Bean, Sonny Bean, uh, settled into Ballantray together, um, which is city somewhere in Scotland.

[377] And then Black Agnes, uh, they were both run out of town because they suspected Black Agnes was a witch, of course.

[378] There's not such a fucking thing with witches, too.

[379] Uh, well, but there are such thing as women who are smarter than other.

[380] people in their village and so they have to live outside of society because they can't handle it than every all the majority of people who yeah yeah yeah like a jew yeah a smart jewish lady that wants to live on the edge of town because here i am bullshit here i am in fucking little armenia hi i'm gonna i'm gonna drive you out of little armenia would she please because i need to get out of this fucking apartment anyways black georgia get out of here so they end up in this cave in benay head which is between Gervon and Balintrae on the west coast of Scotland.

[381] Oh, okay, so Ballantre is on the west coast.

[382] So basically, you can't see the cave at high tide.

[383] The tide goes out and suddenly there's a cave opening.

[384] You walk in 200 yards deep, and then apparently it goes down so it's a mile underground.

[385] That is so cool.

[386] And so they.

[387] black agnes sonny bean move into this cave they have 14 kids then they end up having nearly 50 grandchildren incestuously oh no so they're this big crazy clan and uh i already told you that they'd come out at night so they were hidden they would attack people rob them murder them take all their ship back to the cave so they never left a trace they never left a survivor and they ate them so there was it was as if these people were just disappearing.

[388] I mean, that's fucking off the grid, right?

[389] Right.

[390] So some say that there are a thousand deaths were attributed to the Sani Bean clan and because their reign of terror lasted for 25 years.

[391] Holy shit.

[392] So, it all ended one fateful night when the beans ambushed the beans ambushed a married couple who were coming back from a fair.

[393] They were riding on a horse together and the Bean clan attacked them and pulled the woman down off the horse immediately murdered her ripped open her stomach pulled out her entrails, began eating her on the spot, blood everywhere.

[394] The husband who was a great fighter according to these reports had a sword and a pistol and he was fighting off the rest of the clan when a big group of fairgoers kind of come around the corner on the road and so the sonny bean clan runs away.

[395] Okay.

[396] So they take the dead wife's body.

[397] This husband takes her body to the king and says this crazy clan of lunatics attacked me and my wife.

[398] Murdered my wife.

[399] Here's her body.

[400] You got to help me. So the king and his sorry, hold on.

[401] Can I say sawny beans?

[402] Sounds like one of those like all you can eat soup and salad restaurants.

[403] You're exactly right.

[404] Sonny, interestingly enough, was a derogatory nickname for a Scottish person in England.

[405] So it'd be like how they called Irish people Patty.

[406] It was the same thing.

[407] So that's another reason what all the historians and scholars say this is an urban legend because everything about this is, oh, the disgusting old Sawny being Scotsman.

[408] You know how they are.

[409] they live in caves, eat human flesh, and fuck their own children.

[410] Yeah.

[411] It's that.

[412] It has that tone to it.

[413] But we're still pretending that it's real.

[414] So they go to King James the 6th of Scotland and tell him all about what happened.

[415] So he gets a manhunt going with 400 men and bloodhounds.

[416] And they look all around the country.

[417] side and they can't find anything until the tide goes back out.

[418] And the bloodhounds go crazy and find the opening of the cave.

[419] That is so cool.

[420] And then they go into it.

[421] And this was the Captain Charles Johnson writing in 1742 describes what they found in the cave.

[422] Legs, arms, thighs, hands and feet of men, women and children were hung up in rows like dried beef.

[423] And a great many limbs lay in pickle and a great mass of money both gold and silver with watches, rings and swords, pistols and a large quantity of clothes both linen and woolen and an infinite number of other things which they had taken from those they had murdered.

[424] It's murder with an apostrophe D, old -fashioned murdered, were thrown together in heaps or hung up against the sides of the den.

[425] And I've seen like illustrations so it's basically like candlelight and then just body.

[426] parts hanging from this from a cave so they were said to have been all captured alive and taken in chains to the toll booth jail in Edinburgh then either transferred to Leith or Glasgow where they were promptly executed without a trial the men had their genitalia hands and feet cut off and then they let them bleed to death the women were all burned and children don't what would you rather have?

[427] Burned?

[428] I think it would be relatively faster.

[429] Oh.

[430] Yeah.

[431] Okay.

[432] I mean, it would be horrible for like five minutes.

[433] That's a long time.

[434] It is a long time.

[435] But bleeding out with no extremities is rough.

[436] I think that would be quick and I think you'd be almost like numbed in your brain.

[437] Getting burned alive seems like a fucking nightmare to me. Oh, wait.

[438] Did you see the message from the woman on Facebook who is a there was someone on there that is a registered mortician who said she would answer any questions for us?

[439] I wonder if she would know something like that.

[440] I guess that's not really her department of the actual dying.

[441] Right, but she can probably, I mean.

[442] Like what's the pain?

[443] That'd be an interesting thing to know.

[444] The pain factor and the window.

[445] Like, how quickly do you go into shock if you are on fire?

[446] Like immediately.

[447] I want to know that.

[448] How long?

[449] Let's see if she'll do us a private AMA with us and maybe we can like read them on it in a mini episode.

[450] That's a good idea.

[451] So if you have questions for the licensed mortician and perhaps coroner, I don't, I can't remember.

[452] I'm definitely making up the coroner part right now just for fun.

[453] Do you know I have an ex -boyfriend who's a, what is it called me?

[454] Pathological liar like me. A lot of those.

[455] no he's a um he's uh he picks up dead bodies and brings him to the mortuary wow yeah and he was like my shitty like my broken heart ex -boyfriend oh and i found that out that he did that i was like you fucking dick you bested me like the one that got away uh no i'm like glad he got away but he like fucked me up when while i did it and then he got to have like the best he also like had then living his best like my best life i was like you dick i want to do that whatever he's gross the mortician yeah anyways yeah um and i'm jealous of him too yeah well it's also just interesting because i think there's some people who'd be who'd never be able to do a job like that like us probably i know in reality yeah i think it would be a very very difficult thing to do yeah but so interesting like i would want to know all about it i did too but i didn't want to speak to him anymore i'd be like no yeah not that guy specifically but that's like that's like um there was a there was a homicide detective that was at the same thing I was out I think I told you about that and I wanted to talk to him so bad but I couldn't bring myself to do it because I don't have any guts in that way of like I can't do a cold call of like hi I'm Karen tell me I just wanted to ask you a couple questions about but I mean like how hot would that be if you were like going out with a homicide detective dude the hottest let me make you a casserole and get your goddamn slippers just saying like How is your day?

[456] Yeah.

[457] How is your day?

[458] I really want you to tell me. You're not just asking that because you're being a good wife.

[459] And like, how long is your day?

[460] Tell me about like margin accounting.

[461] It's like what a bitch she is.

[462] Like, how is your fucking day?

[463] How was your day when you came up on the perp and shit?

[464] Like everything.

[465] Let me wrap this down.

[466] I'm almost finished.

[467] No, that's great.

[468] I love it.

[469] Okay.

[470] D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D -D.

[471] The most suspicious part.

[472] of the Sonny Bean story is that no actual proof of him or his numerous victims actually exist.

[473] So they're saying if this many people that what they say is like thousands over a 20 year period were truly disappearing from the Scottish coastline there would be it would be written in the newspaper or whatever you know the periodicals of the time.

[474] There would be reports of it and they don't have they don't have any proof of like him being born or existing and they don't have proof of people disappearing.

[475] It's all just hearsay.

[476] Would that not be his real name then?

[477] Do they have his real name?

[478] Alexander Bean.

[479] I mean nobody named Alexander Bean, yeah, was born.

[480] So they say.

[481] The legend of Sawney Bean first appeared in what they called British chat books, which were rumor magazines of the day.

[482] Sounds like the internet.

[483] Yes, exactly.

[484] The old internet.

[485] Ye old internet.

[486] um which today leads many to argue that the story was a political propaganda tool to denigrate scots after the jacobite rebellions which had happened from 1648 to 1746 um which would make sense uh let's see Scottish historian dr louise yeoman said that um the later king james who was the guy that in the story they say they brought that body to and got who got the 400 people up the search party, said he was a keen hunter, but unlikely to have put himself in danger by leading a perilous track like this.

[487] And she also said, if James had successfully led an expedition to face down a well -armed group of bloodthirsty cannibals, he would have never, we would have never heard the end of it.

[488] So he was the kind of king that like definitely bragged about any slight adventure that he ever went on.

[489] And yet not a word was written anywhere about him doing that.

[490] To me, that's the bigot.

[491] Like, that, to me, is the most.

[492] Like, you can be like, well, maybe it was less victims and maybe his name was something different or spelled differently.

[493] But that is, if it's all written record, what he said, he did.

[494] Yeah.

[495] And he was the kind of king that was like, let me tell you a little story about how I found the sonny bean clear.

[496] So, but maybe that part could have been, like, instead of getting 400 people, they got 30 people and they were townsfolk.

[497] It didn't go all the way to the king.

[498] Right.

[499] Who knows that part?

[500] I really don't want to let it go because I honestly think, well, and this is the other thing, too.

[501] Author Sean Thomas disagrees with the fact that it is urban legend because he says if the Sonny Bean story is to be read as deliberately anti -Scottish, how do we explain the equal emphasis on English criminals in those same publications, the British chat books?

[502] wouldn't such an approach rather blunt the point.

[503] So he was saying like it wasn't just that one story there was all these stories but other people say yeah except for the Sonny Bean story is so bad and extreme that people have been talking about it for hundreds of years.

[504] Well that's the problem is that people have been talking about it so it constantly becomes more and more gruesome and suddenly the king is involved when really it was just like the fucking local township.

[505] Right.

[506] they also said that a lot of the local innkeepers were hanged even though they were innocent because they were always the last people to see those highway travelers alive but then that that's another thing we're like well then they would there would be record of their death and they can't find any of those um so uh author fiona black writes in her book the polar twins the monstrous figure of sonny bean as written history was probably an English invention.

[507] Cannibalism has a long history as a means of political propaganda used by the dominant culture against those they want to colonize.

[508] As an English invention, Sani may be considered a colonial fiction written to demonstrate the savagery and uncivilized nature of the Scots in contrast to the superior qualities of the English nation.

[509] Yeah.

[510] And also, so whether it's true or not.

[511] The one thing, as an urban legend, the story of Sonny Bean represents the extremes humans are forced to go to when famine and poverty drive them to commit terrible deeds to survive, which is something that we all know the British really did do when they were colonizing Scotland and Ireland, you know, the Irish potato famine was not a famine because the crops failed.

[512] The English went in and it took all of the crops out of Ireland.

[513] So people were starving while boats filled with food were being shipped over to England.

[514] They took all the food and intentionally starved Ireland so that they could take over the land.

[515] So this is something England did as a practice.

[516] So it also could be the story of like these were people who were forced in these extreme measures.

[517] They didn't have anything else to eat.

[518] And then the story kind of came out from there.

[519] Fucking colonialism, man. It's not cool.

[520] It's super not cool.

[521] It's kind of not.

[522] you kind of ruined you just like gone and pissed on a bunch of fucking continents and like marked your shitty so that's that's the sonny bean story i was kind of bummed when i first heard that it was an urban legend because it's such a good let you know it like texas chainsaw massacre what better scary thing than the long slow like people just disappearing off a road and then the idea that it's in the middle of the night a family of inbred lunatic are coming to just pull you off your horse and eat you.

[523] It's not even just like one crazy guy.

[524] Right.

[525] One wild and crazy guy.

[526] It's like, 50.

[527] It's like 50.

[528] Nudders.

[529] Scary.

[530] Yeah.

[531] Well, well, I hope it's not true.

[532] I don't know what to hope anymore.

[533] What's your favorite murder?

[534] My favorite 1 ,500 murder.

[535] That you hate in general.

[536] That I hated.

[537] No, actually, I had been reading about this.

[538] like a couple of months ago because I had never really I heard the term but I had never understood the story because fuck Shakespeare the princes in the tower oh I saw that on the list but I didn't read that one yeah so this was this reminded me of that and it's a really interesting story it takes place in 14 around starts in 1483 it starts in 1483 with the oh my God I have to do this again and I meant to look this up.

[539] Uh -oh, you're going to get in big trouble for pronouncing it wrong.

[540] No, this is embarrassing.

[541] So one with a V is five, right?

[542] I know that's four.

[543] God damn it.

[544] When the one is before the V, it's four.

[545] And if it's after, it's six.

[546] Fourth grade was a really hardier for me. Dude, who gives a fuck about Roman numerals?

[547] Seriously.

[548] So four.

[549] Okay.

[550] Wait.

[551] Yeah, because X is 10.

[552] Okay, okay, okay.

[553] So Edward the fourth.

[554] of England he died unexpectedly on April 9th, 1483.

[555] He had two sons, Edward V, I guess I remember Edward the 5th of England.

[556] Just called him Edward V. Edward V. What was the last name is V?

[557] Edward Vee, and he was 12, and Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York, who was nine.

[558] That doesn't sound like a nine -year -old's name.

[559] No. And it's almost like, you can't be, you can't be the maybe prince one.

[560] You can't be the prince, but here you go.

[561] You're the Duke of York.

[562] Yeah.

[563] She's like, cool.

[564] Ricky Shrewsbury.

[565] Ricky, Sherrysbury.

[566] Ricky, yeah.

[567] Okay, so Edward dies unexpectedly, but right before his death, he designates his brother, Richard, as Lord Protector.

[568] Richard the third?

[569] No, I don't know.

[570] Oh, okay.

[571] Richard I, I, I, I don't see I, I, I, no. Richard.

[572] as Lord Protector.

[573] We'll see.

[574] Let's read this.

[575] Why would I even ask a question?

[576] No, I just feel stupid.

[577] Um, so I wrote down, turns out he was a dick.

[578] I wrote that of my notes.

[579] So Richard was a fucking dick.

[580] It's Richard Duke of Gloucester.

[581] He sets out for London after.

[582] I think it's Gloucestershire.

[583] Sorry.

[584] I could definitely be wrong.

[585] I could be wrong.

[586] You're right.

[587] All this is the kind of.

[588] thing like Edinburgh.

[589] It looks like it's Edinburgh, but it's Edinburgh.

[590] Yeah.

[591] And you're supposed to know that, even though you're from fucking Northern California or Southern California.

[592] We're Americans.

[593] We couldn't be more California.

[594] Or Americans.

[595] And we're like, we don't even know what's going on.

[596] So, Gloucester.

[597] Gloucester?

[598] Gloucester.

[599] I don't know.

[600] You know what?

[601] We're going to hear, we're going to hear plenty from people who do know.

[602] He sets out from for Lundon.

[603] Is that how you say it?

[604] Yep.

[605] Yep.

[606] So he sets out for Lund.

[607] London after his bro dies, the following morning, he arrests Edwards, oh my God, I can't read any of this.

[608] I mentioned his uncle, the uncles, so they're half brother.

[609] So he arrests the other kid.

[610] Like he's just already being like dick and around.

[611] And they were sent to a castle where they were fucking, the uncle and the half brother were fucking immediately beheaded in Yorkshire.

[612] wait the nine and the 12 year old no not yeah oh sorry sorry the 12 year old's other uncle oh got a brother got it were immediately beheaded so because Edward the fifth was the heir to the throne so he was supposed to once his dad I'm expecting died he was supposed to be fucking king so then Richard fucking grabs these two kids these two little ones Edward the 5th of England and Richard of Shrewsbury and Ricky Shrewsbury yeah yeah Rick Shrewsbury.

[613] He takes possession of them.

[614] Elizabeth Woodville, who was the wife of Edward had just died, takes her other son, Richard, Duke of York, and her daughters into a sanctuary.

[615] She's like, fuck this in like later days.

[616] Then Richard, so Edward V and Richard arrive in London together.

[617] And then so plans start for Edward's coronation, but the date kept being postponed.

[618] So this 12 -year -old kid who just lost his dad was like.

[619] like about to be the king, which is insane.

[620] Very Game of Thrones.

[621] Very.

[622] So on May 19th, 1483, Edward was lodged in the Tower of London.

[623] Scary.

[624] It's the traditional residence of monarchs prior to the coordination.

[625] So he's still like, I'm going to be a king.

[626] And then on June 16th, he was joined by his younger brother, this kid Richard, Ricky, good old Ricky, who was previously in the sanctuary.

[627] But at this point, the date of Edward's course.

[628] coronation was indefinitely postponed by their dick uncle richard uncle dick too yeah tricky dick tricky dick got it so then on sunday june 22nd a sermon was preached at st paul's crossing claiming richard to be the only legitimate heir of the house of york so at this point there's like this crazy um conspiracy to get this guy richard tricky dick to be the king instead yeah so a group of lords knights and gentlemen petitioned Richard to take the throne.

[629] Both princes were the two kids were subsequently declared illegitimate by parliament because Richard like changed the laws.

[630] It was an act of parliament known as Titulus regios.

[631] Again, I fucking hate.

[632] Yeah.

[633] We don't speak a lot now.

[634] So he said that the marriage between Edward VIII and Elizabeth's marriage was invalid because of some contract of of pre -marriage.

[635] So, like, he made some bullshit law up and said that these kids aren't legitimate, so this one can't be king.

[636] So this, so rich, so he was crowned king Richard the third.

[637] You were correct, ma 'am.

[638] I was correct.

[639] You were correct.

[640] A miracle of England on July 3rd.

[641] And the declaration of the boys illegitimacy had been described as an ex post facto justification for him getting the fucking throne.

[642] And it's recorded that after he sees the throne, Edward and Ricky were taken to the quote inner apartments of the tower and they were seen less and less sometimes they were seeing like playing outside but less and less and Edward was regularly visited by a doctor who reported that like a victim prepared for sacrifice he sought remission of his sins by daily confession and penance because he believed that death was facing him like this kid was like a 12 year old boy yeah this kid was like I know it's happening I mean, he's been, he's been raised to be ready to be prince.

[643] There's probably a fucking smart kid.

[644] Yeah.

[645] And knows what happens with monarchies, you know?

[646] It happened a bunch.

[647] Sure.

[648] Pretty standard stuff.

[649] Yeah.

[650] So there's reports that they're seeing playing around the tower, but no recorded sightings of either of them after the summer of 1483.

[651] There was an attempt to rescue them, but it failed.

[652] And it's, it's at this.

[653] point the reason it failed is because they were they were already dead.

[654] That's what they think is that the reason it failed is that they were already dead.

[655] Other than their disappearance, there's no direct evidence that they were murdered and no, quote, reliable, well -informed, independent, or impartial sources for the associated events.

[656] So it's a speculation that they were murdered, but there's a lot of evidence as to it happening.

[657] Well, yeah, because there's somebody that has a really good reason to murder them.

[658] Very good.

[659] And they're never seen from again.

[660] Right.

[661] And also when you're the king, you can get all that shit taken care of and not have any evidence laying around.

[662] Right.

[663] Right.

[664] So jump to like more recently, four unidentified bodies have been found, which are considered possibly connected with the events.

[665] Um, let's see.

[666] Okay.

[667] So the theory, the theory that I think is the most correct and seems to be the like, this is whatever.

[668] thinks it is.

[669] So there's this guy named Sir James Tyrell who was an English knight who fought for the House of York on many occasions and he was acting as he was the loyal servant of Richard the 3rd.

[670] So he was arrested by Henry the just sounded out.

[671] How many?

[672] V -1 -7th?

[673] Henry the 7th forces in 1502.

[674] I'm so, this is Dude, please.

[675] He is.

[676] Okay.

[677] In 1502, for supporting another Yorkist claim to the throne.

[678] So he's arrested and he was going to get executed and he was tortured.

[679] And he's like, yeah, it's, I was, I did it because Richard the third told me to.

[680] Really?

[681] He confesses to this guy, uh, named Thomas Moore.

[682] And Morris said that the princes, uh, this guy told him they were smothered to death in their beds by two agents by this guy, Tyrell and were then, Tyrell and then were then were buried, quote, at the stay of.

[683] foot meatly deep in the ground under a great heap of stones but were later disinterned and buried in a secret place Ooh.

[684] Yeah.

[685] They were under the guard of the Tower of London while they were there, which was controlled by Richard the Third's men.

[686] And access to them, to the princes, was strictly limited by his instructions, which is like that, that's a fact.

[687] Yeah.

[688] he could therefore have dispatched one of his retainers to murder the princes on his behalf.

[689] But it's unlikely that they could have been murdered without his knowledge.

[690] You know what I mean?

[691] He did it.

[692] These little fucking poor kids were.

[693] So in 1674, some workmen were remodeling the Tower of London, giving it a little makeup.

[694] Wait, here's 16 something four?

[695] 1674.

[696] Okay.

[697] They dug up a wooden box containing two small human skeletons.

[698] I know.

[699] The bones were found buried.

[700] 10 feet out of the staircase leading to the chapel of the white tower they were not the first children's skeletons found within the tower Oh no What are you fucking doing in there?

[701] They did whatever they wanted.

[702] The bones of two other children had been found in a chamber that had been walled up which could have also been them.

[703] So like you find two sets two sets of two children's bones like the chances are that one of them's going to be.

[704] Yeah.

[705] Except Queen Elizabeth II hasn't not granted the approval for DNA testing.

[706] She's like, nope.

[707] Queen Elizabeth the second is our current one?

[708] I think so.

[709] Sorry, I didn't mean.

[710] Only, why, what does she care?

[711] I mean, it's going to look badly on them.

[712] Oh, it's too late.

[713] Most people think they're lizard people.

[714] Don't they realize?

[715] Yeah, have you ever heard that theory?

[716] No. David Ike?

[717] No. Oh, that's fascinating.

[718] what is it they think that there's just um that basically the most powerful and richest people on the planet are actually lizard people oh there was a um last podcast on the left about that yeah it's i haven't heard that but my friend laura used to read all david ike books and websites and then tell me what they said and she started out thinking it was funny and then after a while it got a little real and i was like you need to stop reading that shit like she believed it she just was reading a lot of it she's like submerged herself in the world a little much where it's basically once you suspend disbelief a little bit then you can go you know then you can kind of believe what you know that everybody's kind of like a um they say that they're like these weird they have the ability to change from lizards to people wow that's that's all like most royalty are actually lizard people that's stupid it's a little heavy like why lizards I don't know maybe it's because it's like you could see it like they're part alien or something Okay.

[719] I actually believe alien more than lizard.

[720] Yeah.

[721] I don't know.

[722] Anyways, the end is that the bones were removed and examined in 1933.

[723] And the archivist, the leading anatomist, he said that they concluded that the bones belonged to two children around the correct ages for the princes.

[724] Oh.

[725] Yeah.

[726] That was in the 30s that they did that?

[727] Oh, that's cool.

[728] But since then they won't, they won't let them test them.

[729] That's all, that's the only word they want to hear about it.

[730] You know what's funny is we went to the Tower of London, my sister and I. So did I. But we had such bad jet lag that we were trying to stay up till a normal hour so that when we went to sleep.

[731] Because we landed at like nine in the morning.

[732] Yeah.

[733] But for us, it was like two in the morning.

[734] So then it was like for us, it was like we were trying to stay up all night.

[735] So we took all these tours.

[736] So we walked through the Tower of London We did all this stuff But neither of us can remember it Because we were like exhausted And then we finally went to sleep at 4 o 'clock And then we woke up at 3 in the morning And we had jet lag for like four days While we were in England It sucked I did that and I did that too In places If you don't do it right You can really screw up like your whole vacation That's true One of the only memories I have Is like going to the aquarium that they have there Really have a really awesome one and petting a little stingray that they would come up to the sides of the tank like little dogs Oh my god, cute But I was in love I mean of all the memories to have of lunch I could have done that in Monterey That's true Totally insane Anyhow We were I'm just saying The Tower of London Did not seem to me to be The kind of place any kid would ever want to be No Not a fun little hangout No Not a good summer camp Well that's 1500s Next time can we do can we do like a 70s one?

[737] I mean this was a misstep I admit it 100 % Were those okay?

[738] I feel like I I feel like I'm going to edit out some of the stupid or shit I said Look you can you can edit whatever you want But I think if anyone is coming here to learn They've made a terrible mistake And also Yeah Yeah I mean well let's do like so your your episode about or your murder about um the chick who's hands got fucking sliced off mary vincent mary vincent fucking crawling her stump way yep that's like the most talked about one right so people like grow some shit well and also i think it's just it's if it's a good story yeah it's a survivor story a survivor story a survivor story or Or something so insane, like, for me, what I like is when it's something where you're like, I'm sorry, what the fuck are you talking about?

[739] Like, how is that possible in the human experience?

[740] Yeah, what depraved fuck openness.

[741] Or like crazy planning.

[742] Yeah.

[743] Should we do survivors next week?

[744] We can.

[745] Oh, my God.

[746] I know the one I want to do if you want to do survivors.

[747] Yeah.

[748] Let's do I survived.

[749] I'll tell you.

[750] Mine will be from and I survived.

[751] I'm sure it will.

[752] You're obsessed with that show.

[753] This is when I tell people at parties.

[754] Have you told me?

[755] Don't tell me. I don't know.

[756] Sometimes when I can't think, I think part of this obsession is when I can't think of what to say.

[757] I'll just go into somebody else's tale of amazing survival.

[758] You know, lately when I'm at like a, when I'm short of a conversation and I'll ask people their hometown murders.

[759] You will?

[760] Yep.

[761] Do you get some good ones?

[762] Sometimes people see, it's funny how much, how people just jump into the conversation like it's normal.

[763] Yes.

[764] Which I really appreciate.

[765] I do too.

[766] And like I've been like, you know, around a whole table of people and it's like awkward chit -chat.

[767] And then I'll, and then I'll be like, oh, I'm from Arizona.

[768] And I'm like, oh, were you there when this thing happened?

[769] Yeah.

[770] And then it just starts this like fun conversation.

[771] Well, and also because people have such extreme reactions to it.

[772] Either they're super into it or super repelled by it.

[773] Yeah.

[774] But it is a fun like, oh, I can't, if you guys are to talk about this, I can't be here.

[775] Right.

[776] Well, go away.

[777] Yeah.

[778] That's exactly what I end up saying.

[779] Me, yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not going to fucking, you don't have to make your whole life around someone else's comfort or not.

[780] No, why would you?

[781] No, go ahead.

[782] Should we read a hometown?

[783] Please do.

[784] Before we end.

[785] Yeah.

[786] There's one that I have.

[787] Let's see.

[788] That was really great.

[789] Hold on one second.

[790] Let's see.

[791] do do that This is a hold music Do do that Do do do do do do Do do do do Back in the 1500 So Krista Wrote a hometown murder And the subject is This is the one in all caps So I'm like I'm going to read that one Well done Krista And people have been Really good at like putting Awesome subject lines on it Like they'll put like what it Like murder suicide side, blah, blah, blah.

[792] This is crazy.

[793] Yeah, I'm reading that.

[794] Nice.

[795] So, okay, here's Krista's story.

[796] Okay.

[797] In 1993, my 18 -year -old neighbor went missing.

[798] Rose Larner was her name.

[799] I was younger, so I didn't really know her well, but did know her younger brother, who was only a year ahead of me in school.

[800] It was December in Michigan, and I can remember my best friend and I intentionally walking past Rose's house when her mother, also named Rose.

[801] kept a lone candle burning in the window as a symbol for her missing daughter.

[802] Oh.

[803] The police didn't really seem to do much since Rose was 18.

[804] Hey, 1993.

[805] Yeah.

[806] She was legally in doubt, however, it was very eerie.

[807] According to reports, her boyfriend and her childhood friends said that the last saw her early that morning, and that was it.

[808] She totally vanished.

[809] For two years, there was no answer about Rose.

[810] Until the childhood friend, Billy Brown, fearing he was going to be arrested, confessed that the boyfriend, John Ortiz, Kehoe, strangled Rose at his grandparents' house.

[811] Those poor people.

[812] What?

[813] According to Billy, John became infuriated when Rose refused to participate in a threesome.

[814] Report said that he strangled her, took her to the shower, slit her throat, dismembered her and burned her body in the grandparents' fire pit with the help of Billy.

[815] Jesus.

[816] High school.

[817] Can you imagine?

[818] Here's where it gets seriously disturbing, she says.

[819] Really?

[820] What?

[821] I was there.

[822] According to Billy's testimony, he and John had gone to the store that day and purchased sandwich -making items, bread, turkey, etc. While they were watching Rose's body burned, John commented that he, quote, wondered how flesh would taste, cut off a remaining piece of Rose, put it in a sandwich with some mustard, and ate her.

[823] There were no words.

[824] There are no words.

[825] Billy claims John tried to eat another piece, but spit it out because the flesh had too much gasoline on it.

[826] That's why he fucking spit it out.

[827] which they'd used to burn her body.

[828] Police were able to find a speck of blood at the grandparents' house and identified it as Rose.

[829] Kehoe is in jail for life but has a fucking blog, a blog protesting his innocence, she says.

[830] Billy Brown only got a year in jail, which is interesting.

[831] It's weird that they only found a speck.

[832] Yeah, that's strange.

[833] Yeah.

[834] Kehoe still claims that he is innocent of all this in states that Brown sold him out because both were drug dealers, users, and he would get sent to jail unless he gave the police a story a story to bargain with oh wait a second so then was it not true that he like was that the eating part not true well he got convicted but i mean oh is he's saying that he made that up or something he's saying he didn't kill her at all any of it oh which is interesting that you would think that there would be more than a speck of blood yeah that's true especially for our high school in 1993 who doesn't understand like Luminal and how to like find bloodstains.

[835] Yeah.

[836] Even in the pipes of the shower, although I guess it was two years later.

[837] Two years.

[838] That's true.

[839] But, but that, you're right that if they looked at it with Luminal wouldn't it still be there?

[840] Yeah.

[841] So they either killed her somewhere else or didn't.

[842] But it sounds like the cutting happened in the shower.

[843] Yeah.

[844] But would it still be in there?

[845] I mean, I wonder if Luminal picks up.

[846] If he strangled her, then slitter through it in the shower.

[847] But if you dismembered her, then you know how do you carry body parts to the unless he did the dismemberment outside but there'd still be well then if it was like in dirt right if the blood was in dirt right or he took the body parts straight from the shower into like a garbage bag dude but you know what like what about the fire pit I feel like there'd be so much evidence in there like ashes and yes for sure because you can't burn a human body like at just a normal fire pit no there'd be bone fragment something.

[848] Even when you burn a body when it's being officially, and we've got a mortician we can talk to about this, but there's a certain heat at which it burns, and even then there's still bones left over.

[849] I've seen the remnants of a cremated body.

[850] Yeah.

[851] It's fucking creepy.

[852] Well, yeah.

[853] Oh, that's not that satisfying.

[854] So it's either they did it or they completely didn't.

[855] It's It sounds like the most obvious answer except for maybe why he did it and the eating of the body part.

[856] Right.

[857] I mean, this just, it's so making a murderer.

[858] Yeah.

[859] It's so that thing where then you're, when you are left, when I am left, it's stories like that.

[860] I can fill in those blanks so easily and just be positive if someone's guilty.

[861] But why would the cops run with it if they had already been like, no, she ran away.

[862] It wasn't like, oh, we haven't solved this murder, this like crime of this disappearing girl.

[863] Well, because don't you think they always suspect like the closest, if it's a girl that's disappeared, they always suspect the boyfriend or a male relative.

[864] Like, I'm sure they had their four favorites.

[865] I just also feel like, so they must have, uh, they must have interviewed the boyfriend and the best friend in the beginning and grilled them.

[866] I feel like one of them would have cracked.

[867] Like it's again, high schoolers.

[868] Yeah.

[869] But high school drug dealers.

[870] Maybe they were on drugs.

[871] I always think it's so fascinating that whole thing of like how drugs can affect like a lie detector test sorry the hiccups a lie detector test or like any of that stuff where you can kind of weirdly like you can neutralize your your energy and make them not suspect you well also i guess if you're a drug dealer you're already kind of like our anti -authority so the thought of like succumbing and confessing because succumbing to the interrogation and confessing is like, it's like a feat of strength to be like, no, I didn't do it.

[872] I didn't let them.

[873] Yeah, and if they're drug dealers, maybe they'd already dealt with the cops a lot, so it wasn't so scary as it would be for you and I. Right.

[874] Friday night, Vince and I did nothing and sat at home and watched the O .J. Simpson, the new Simpsons.

[875] Yes.

[876] Documentary, the 30 for 30, which I haven't finished yet.

[877] Don't even...

[878] I'm only on part four.

[879] And you and I texted and had some funny jokes about it.

[880] Yes.

[881] And that's like, that was perfect.

[882] We had some wine and we had snacks.

[883] And like, that's like my perfect moment with cats surrounding us.

[884] Yeah.

[885] And fucked up murder.

[886] I love that special.

[887] I was talking, I went to a party on Saturday night last Saturday.

[888] And I was talking to my friend about that.

[889] And I just kept saying to her, I'm so embarrassed.

[890] My reaction in 1995, or whenever that verdict came down, was it 95 or 94?

[891] Yeah, 94 -95.

[892] I can't remember.

[893] But whenever it was, I just very much remember, I remember hearing, like, on the radio, on talk radio or whatever, the black reaction was like, good, this is what we deserve.

[894] You know, it's only just.

[895] And I remember just thinking, this is crazy.

[896] I don't understand what these people are talking.

[897] talking about and now it took 25 years practically and to now understand what they meant it makes me embarrassed that like that's what they're talking about when they talk about white privilege there are stories in that documentary i never heard before i didn't know about that 12 year old girl that got shot in the back by the korean store owner i didn't know about the woman who got shot on her front lawn over an like a gas bill yeah like there's all this news that I didn't know about that I like we just weren't privy like the news was so different back then and and right I mean you think like racism you know not in my lifetime so much better we don't we're not this we're fucking horrible yes it's because we because ultimately it's you don't know what you don't know totally and a lot of people talk like when people when there's the black lives matter um you know campaign and then there's these other people going all lives matter where it's like you're, you are missing the point.

[898] Totally.

[899] And what you're saying is, as if you understand what these people are going through, you do not.

[900] Your privilege is such that you have no idea.

[901] It made me, as, even though I'm not at all racist and no one of my families and it's not, you know, it's nothing I've ever encountered on my own, in my own life, it made me so embarrassed.

[902] Yes.

[903] For it's because we shouldn't, because if you don't know, then you shouldn't be going this is ridiculous you know what I mean like it's that judgment of a of privilege yeah that's embarrassing to me because yeah I always thought I was middle class working class totally my parents are from I were raised by Irish immigrants who are poor and bootstrapped and all that kind of stuff so nobody has that kind of like I always look at that as like oh the 1 % and those people that don't understand whatever that's not us it absolutely is is you if you haven't had the experience And that's, but that's the brilliance of that documentary series is people are legitimately having their eyes opened.

[904] I can't wait to finish it.

[905] And it's, it's heavy.

[906] I hear the fifth episode is insanely grisly because you see the bodies.

[907] There's crime scene photos.

[908] Is that the first time they've ever been shown like legally and publicly, I wonder?

[909] I'm not sure.

[910] Oh, God, I don't want to see her.

[911] It's apparently very gross.

[912] and upsetting.

[913] I just remember hearing when I was like when it happened that I there's the first time I ever heard this and I've unfortunately heard it since that her neck was so slit that it was almost she was almost beheaded.

[914] Yeah.

[915] Like that has stuck with me. I mean, seen it a couple, heard it a couple, read it a couple times and other crimes since then.

[916] Yeah.

[917] And it it gives me the chills.

[918] It's so crazy.

[919] It's so crazy.

[920] And the weirdest part is that all of it like the entire entire story is surreal huge.

[921] Like you just wouldn't anybody who hasn't seen this documentary you really have to see it.

[922] And the beginning, the first episode is really all about OJ and his football career which I was like boring but then it makes you understand who he was and why it mattered because I didn't care about football.

[923] Right.

[924] So I didn't understand what a huge person.

[925] I saw him in the naked gun and I was like he's that actor but like even him getting commercial.

[926] It was just so interesting what it meant for him to be as huge as he was.

[927] Right.

[928] And he was one of the first people, he was one of the first black men that was presented as, um, like a commercial aspirational figure.

[929] Which had never happened before.

[930] Yeah.

[931] For neither, for not just for black people.

[932] No, for everybody.

[933] At large.

[934] It's so fascinating.

[935] It is.

[936] Uh, yeah.

[937] Highly recommended.

[938] Mm -hmm.

[939] Crazy.

[940] Yeah.

[941] Um, well, I tried to end it up.

[942] on a positive note.

[943] And then I ended up talking about fucking up the Simpsons again.

[944] Oh, also there's a series my sister told me to start watching, which is on PBS called The Tunnel.

[945] Have you heard of that?

[946] Is that the one you just told me about?

[947] Where there's, um, they find a body in the channel between France and England.

[948] And it's a woman's body that they laid perfectly on the line between England and France.

[949] And it's really good.

[950] It just started, I keep checking my DVR thinking that there's going to be another one, and it's like, no, you're new to this series.

[951] You have to wait a week, but it's driving me crazy.

[952] Yeah, because it's that good.

[953] I can't do that anymore.

[954] I know.

[955] I want to watch everything at once.

[956] Yeah.

[957] Let's watch that.

[958] What are you guys like?

[959] What are you guys into?

[960] What's your favorite murder?

[961] What's your hometown murder?

[962] Email us at my hiccups now.

[963] Email us at my favorite murder at Gmail.

[964] Tell us your hometown murder.

[965] Make that subject line real interesting.

[966] Again, your t -shirts are coming soon.

[967] they're being made.

[968] It was a pre -order.

[969] Thank you for being patient.

[970] Yeah.

[971] We'll never go anywhere past 19, let's say 1910.

[972] Or we can go to late 1800s.

[973] I feel like yeah, late 1800s is pretty cool because there's like a lot of like nefarious villains and stuff, which is fun and you can like picture the mustaches and stuff.

[974] Yeah, but everything else is just like crazed.

[975] Yeah.

[976] And tell your friend, tell a friend about this podcast and let's, um, let's, we really you guys this is so exciting i love this podcast it's pretty fun and uh and our facebook page we have almost 16 000 people on it's so nuts it's so nuts and thank you so much to all of our um i always forget the word murderinos our murderinos yes but are the people that run that page oh our murderators they are murderators bust their ass they really keep it in line it's exactly how we want it people being cool to each other people talking about stuff, but keeping it on topic and kind of keeping it clean so we can just go on there and read these stories, people post.

[977] We can, you know, not too many memes.

[978] Like, they just keep it nice and, like, on point for us.

[979] And there's a lot of hometown murders up there, too, so you guys can read them because we have a ton in our email that you guys need to see.

[980] But actually, I think I'm going to start posting them as like blog posts on our Patreon.

[981] Oh, good idea.

[982] For free or whatever.

[983] I don't know how to do it.

[984] But we, yeah, we don't.

[985] So my, favorite murder or Patreon, I think I'm going to start posting some of the ones we're not going to read on there.

[986] And my favorite murder at Twitter on Twitter, and there's like, you guys should listen to the other episodes.

[987] They're not from the 1500s.

[988] Oh, my God.

[989] This thing was, you know what?

[990] This was fun about this.

[991] This was like a plane that was kind of crashing.

[992] But then it pulled the nose up at the end and then it just kind of skidded into the dirt.

[993] Yeah, we skimmed.

[994] We skimmed the trees.

[995] We did our best.

[996] Sometimes it's fun to listen to people try It is and I'm sure It was there were funny moments Intentionally or otherwise I like that you tried to end it on a positive I really did And Elvis isn't here so I can't make him meow Should I try to get him to come out?

[997] It's just a fucking shit show Elvis you better get out here right now Elvis need Elvis come to the building Elvis Elvis Hi Do you want a cookie?

[998] Thank God Yeah.

[999] Hey, Karen.

[1000] Stay sexy.

[1001] Don't get murdered.

[1002] Bye.