392 - Hollywood Phony

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hard Stark.

[3] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[4] It's Monday.

[5] To us.

[6] To us, it's Monday.

[7] What day is it to you?

[8] Hey, in your heart and your mind and your spirit and your soul, what day is it?

[9] Now I'm going to play the part of the listener.

[10] Okay.

[11] If somebody asked me that question, I'd be like, I'm kind of a solid Thursday person.

[12] Mm -hmm.

[13] Were you going to say the same thing?

[14] I was literally like, yeah, like a Thursday is the good.

[15] good milk, as my therapist calls it.

[16] Yes, it's like there's still potential.

[17] You have one more day of work, but you're kind of grateful that you're closing it out.

[18] Yeah.

[19] Yeah.

[20] And you're like planning the weekend and like it's all right in front of you.

[21] Amy Sedaris, the wonderful, amazing Amy Cedaris, just like posts on Instagram now like gifts that are supposed to translate into the days of the week.

[22] So like Monday is always a gift of someone like getting hit over the fucking head with like a barbell and falling over.

[23] Fridays are celebratory, obviously.

[24] But Thursdays are the ones that are like, it's coming, like a freight train.

[25] Yes.

[26] Here it comes.

[27] Yeah.

[28] That's it.

[29] Yeah.

[30] It's excitement.

[31] There's so much potential.

[32] You can pretend that you're going to go to like a rooftop bar at some point this weekend.

[33] This will be the weekend.

[34] You put on your big felt hat.

[35] Finally.

[36] Finally.

[37] You do those hot roller long curls in your hair.

[38] and you go to the rooftop, girl.

[39] Do you know what I actually did last weekend and I followed through with it, which is not like me at all.

[40] I got dressed up.

[41] I fucking did the whole thing.

[42] I got cookie a babysitter, aka my dad, the whole thing.

[43] I went and saw the Golden Girls live drag show.

[44] Yep.

[45] With none other than Jackie Beat as B. Arthur, who, oh my God.

[46] I never seen better acting in my life.

[47] Jackie Beat, I know I've done this brag before, but Jackie Beat worked on the first writing job I ever had.

[48] It was a sketch show for the WB.

[49] And I truly think Jackie might be the funniest person on the planet, like the sharpest mind, the fastest mind.

[50] But then also, like, this incredible singing voice.

[51] Really?

[52] Just like one of the greats.

[53] I talk about Jackie Beat a lot and brag about Jackie Beat a lot.

[54] You took me to Jackie Beat's show.

[55] a long time ago and I was like blown away.

[56] But you know who else was in it?

[57] Of course, Sam Pancake as Estelle Getty just killed it.

[58] Yeah.

[59] And Sherry Vine as the amazing room of Clanahan.

[60] But none other than exactly right's own, Ross Hernandez as the cutest betty white I have ever seen.

[61] Picture it.

[62] It was like the cutest fucking thing.

[63] So Ross was standing in for Drew Drogey?

[64] Yes, exactly.

[65] Awesome.

[66] And like by the end of the show I was like shy and starstruck and there's a photo of me with fucking exactly right to care of clink because we went together and I'm like blushing I'm so excited to be in a photo with them yeah that's awesome she's I mean she's so talented but that show also it's a kind of thing where you don't even have to have that much of a huge attachment or deep fanship of the golden girls to just have it be like hey did this play in your house when you were a kid because you get this and you will like this and the energy around it is so like fun times summertime fun time well everyone's saying the intro together a whole theater of people yeah word for word even though some of us are kind of confused on a certain like a sentence here there saying along and it was like this beautiful feeling so good also i think because you know we're all being so careful here on exactly right to not promote anything on television or film because of the strike.

[67] What a great opportunity to talk about talented people that we love that deserve.

[68] I mean, I think that show is sold out all the time, so it's almost mean to talk about it because people can't get enough.

[69] But live comedy performances, if you want a little glimmer, that's where it's at.

[70] I mean, it's like the perfect thing to bring someone from L .A. to go eat it.

[71] Casita del Campo, one of the best fucking Mexican restaurants in town and go see Golden Girls live.

[72] And it's Golden Girls with a Z girls.

[73] So check that out.

[74] Make no mistake.

[75] Is it in the theater at Casitas Stel Campo downstairs?

[76] No, I think they're doing rentals on that.

[77] It was a lyric.

[78] Whatever.

[79] Oh, got it.

[80] Got it.

[81] At the lyric theater.

[82] Just in case someone could get a ticket.

[83] At the lyric Hyperion.

[84] I mean, incredible.

[85] Love it.

[86] Good vibes.

[87] What's up with you?

[88] Good vibes.

[89] I just got back from Petaluma.

[90] I was, I stayed up there hiding from the hurricane.

[91] Her.

[92] quake that never did it never was thank god it was that way because there was lots of jokes of like here's normal people prepping for a hurricane here's people in los angeles prepping for a hurricane yeah and then it's just footage of people just running down a slip and slide like treating everything like it's a joke yeah yeah and i was really afraid that it would be like that for like the first two hours and then something overfine would happen devastation yeah just a suggestion how about a little less devastation yeah it just the onslaught Please be careful.

[93] If you are watching the news at a regular pace, which my dad does all goddamn day every day, you've got to be careful.

[94] I think it's that feeling of like, especially right now, trying to stay up with like the breaking news and the latest news.

[95] Yeah.

[96] But so much is going on in this world.

[97] There's so much devastation.

[98] There's so much like rough stuff.

[99] You have to be careful.

[100] Don't totally dissociate.

[101] Stay in with your empathy.

[102] Sure.

[103] Don't test yourself your only human being.

[104] Yeah, that's a good.

[105] Those are good.

[106] That's a good thing for like anything in life.

[107] Don't test yourself.

[108] You're only a human being.

[109] Yeah, that's true.

[110] That's true.

[111] Like just know when you're getting full and then step away.

[112] It's so hard though.

[113] So I have, I'm like really ashamed of this callous I have on my pinky because it's where my phone rests when I'm scrolling.

[114] Oh yeah.

[115] I have the same one on my phone right there.

[116] Okay.

[117] And I feel like it's one of those things.

[118] where I was like, well, if I don't ever put my phone down, it's never going to go away for the rest of my life.

[119] And then the other day, I cut the tip of my thumb off while I was cooking.

[120] So I had to, like, bandage it up.

[121] So I couldn't scroll with the fat thumb.

[122] And then I had this fucking painful callous on my thing.

[123] And it was just like almost like a punch in the face of like, you're doing it too much, you know.

[124] Your hands are punching themselves in the face.

[125] Or just like, hey, we don't work anymore.

[126] What are you going to do now?

[127] How about you?

[128] Like, pet your cat and read a book.

[129] instead.

[130] Here's the thing.

[131] The book thing is great.

[132] It doesn't work fast enough as a person who is fully addicted to TikTok and needs to see like 150 strangers telling me, like assuring me that their opinion is right and I have to do what they're doing.

[133] Yeah.

[134] Or this product will change your fucking life or this this recipe is going to like give you so much more time in your life or whatever.

[135] Yeah.

[136] Or just watching a woman my age put on concealer, correct?

[137] and now I know how to put on concealer correctly.

[138] It's like, thank you.

[139] You never go out and put concealer on anyway.

[140] Now I'm all concealer.

[141] Just catch me outside with my concealer on.

[142] I can't even see your face.

[143] It's just a full face of concealer right now.

[144] Isn't it just glowing with three shades too light?

[145] It's the 90s again.

[146] Somebody, there was a TikTok, and I do apologize.

[147] This is the thing I do all the time where I do.

[148] It's not like I write it down.

[149] It was just someone that had taken in concert footage of Robert Smith, who God bless him, you know, the lead singer of The Cure.

[150] And he's on stage, you know, on all of his middle age glory with his sloppy punk rock lipstick and his crazy hair.

[151] And then underneath it, it said something like, me rolling home at 2 a .m. You know what I mean?

[152] Whatever it was.

[153] And it just was like, thank you.

[154] I get this.

[155] I feel this.

[156] Like this, it truly was on my for you page because it was for me. It hit.

[157] It hit for you.

[158] In the realist way.

[159] Karen Kilgariff, it hit.

[160] Middle -aged TikToker, Karen Kilgariff.

[161] Well, they're calling us, they're calling me and us old millennials.

[162] Is that right?

[163] Ancient millennials, something like that.

[164] Elder millennial.

[165] Thank you, Alejandra.

[166] I couldn't remember that because I am old.

[167] There you go.

[168] I'm an elder millennial.

[169] Elder millennials.

[170] So there's younger ones that were born like in the later 80s.

[171] 90s?

[172] So I'm a young as shit Gen Xer.

[173] I'm like the youngest Gen Xer that could possibly Gen X. Also the oldest millennial that could millennial.

[174] So I'm like right there.

[175] And it's hard to be called elder anything.

[176] Yes.

[177] Sure.

[178] That's what I am.

[179] If you're a young Gen Xer, then I'm, I think I'm just solidly.

[180] Right.

[181] Am I the oldest Gen Xer?

[182] Am I an elder Gen X?

[183] Borderline boomer.

[184] What's the number?

[185] No, it's like 80, I think.

[186] So you're your solid Gen Xer.

[187] Solid Gen X. Okay.

[188] I mean, when in the history before like this and social media and this kind of weird, trendy way of talking, did anyone give a shit what generation they were in?

[189] This was not the discussion.

[190] Sorry.

[191] But if you call yourself the greatest generation, then you obviously fucking give a shit, mom and dad, like calm the fuck down.

[192] True.

[193] You don't even know what's coming after.

[194] Like, chill.

[195] Compared to what?

[196] Boomers?

[197] The future?

[198] Yeah, your parents fucking struggled to bring you here.

[199] to this country like you know that's very telling because my dad's from the silent generation and that is shut the fuck up so dead on silent until you try to run the dishwasher and then he loses his mind we had the most hilarious fight about the dishwasher and of course on top of that home gym is very hard of hearing his neighbor julie brought over homemade cookies and these were they were the best chocolate chip cookies i've ever had and i am a self -proclaimed connoisseur which just means I've been paying a lot of attention to cookies my whole life.

[200] Sure.

[201] Why wouldn't you?

[202] I don't think that's a mystery.

[203] But they were perfectly made, perfectly made.

[204] And so the next time I was walking the dogs and I saw her.

[205] And so I just was like, Julie, those were the best chocolate chip cookies I've ever had.

[206] And I was like, what was that recipe?

[207] Is that that New York Times recipe that has like salt in it or like this one or that one?

[208] And she goes, no, at a whole house.

[209] Yep.

[210] She's so blasé about it.

[211] And then I just went, wait a second, it's because she made them for, well, me. I mean, I was glomming on.

[212] Yeah, yeah.

[213] But it was like homemade cookies for us for my dad.

[214] And I was like, that's the difference.

[215] From her kitchen walked over to our kitchen.

[216] Yeah.

[217] And like cared enough about it for you.

[218] Wait, I want to hear the dishwasher argument, the heart of hearing dishwasher.

[219] Like, Karen, what are you doing wrong with the dishwasher is when I'm trying to run it at all?

[220] I'm literally called a Hollywood phony when I try to run the dishwasher.

[221] Shut the fuck up.

[222] That's my dad's favorite insult, which is pretty hilarious.

[223] But the reason I told the whole story about Julie is because the next day when I told her, I saw her, and then I told her how good her cookies were and we talked about it for 10 minutes.

[224] And then I said, because she goes, is your dad doing okay?

[225] Because you know, we're here if you ever need us.

[226] And I go, I just need you to know that he is borderline stone deaf.

[227] And there's a lot of yelling that goes on in that house that is not elder abuse.

[228] It probably sounds like it.

[229] But you have to, like, you have to be up at opera levels just for him to hear you.

[230] And then that's when he mutes football to go, what?

[231] Right.

[232] Which is, of course, I'm cheering.

[233] And she started laughing where I'm like, we got into a fight at Christmas that I only realized after like 30 seconds into us fighting that both the sliding glass door and the front door were open.

[234] And it's dead silent in his neighborhood.

[235] Yeah.

[236] And I'm like, oh, I'm the lunatic that comes home and just.

[237] start screaming at her old dad that everyone loves.

[238] And I was just like, so I had to say to her face, I was just like, there's a lot of yelling, but it's not always fighting.

[239] But the dishwasher fight was fighting because we were getting ready for my sister's birthday dinner.

[240] And my dad does a thing where he just puts stuff in the dishwasher and then just keeps taking it back out and rinsing things individually.

[241] So he almost uses the dishwasher like a drying rack.

[242] Weird.

[243] He just never runs it.

[244] So then if I go to.

[245] have cereal, then I have to hand wash a bowl.

[246] I think that's dumb.

[247] So we should run this because there's a bunch of other dishes in it.

[248] Yeah.

[249] Well, you know that's the first sign of being a Hollywood phony when you think you're fancy enough that you're going to run the dishwasher when you should want to use a dishwasher as it is intended for.

[250] It is supposed to happen.

[251] It's much more sanitary than just having shit sit there for days.

[252] Ew.

[253] They have, like, drying racks.

[254] You could just use that.

[255] No, that's crazy.

[256] Please, please don't you also be a Hollywood phony in Georgia.

[257] Don't you go the way of me, the Hollywood funny?

[258] Just ridiculous.

[259] There's lots of stuff like that, but then, of course, lots of laughs.

[260] Because Home Gym, to this day, is the funniest person of all time.

[261] I love it.

[262] Very funny.

[263] I tried to get him to watch Escape from New York.

[264] And then I fell asleep, of course.

[265] yeah and he got up and went like stood up and declared this is the stupidest movie i've ever seen in my life and then went home i thought old guys loved that fucking movie i did too i was like snake pliskin you're not going to get on board with this he didn't like it that's an old guy's movie for sure wow but maybe not so old i think gen x for sure maybe boomer but not silent generation silent generation sorry i got so mad at the greatest generation i think i confused them for boomers.

[266] So I take it all back.

[267] I think the greatest generation are the ones that fought World War II.

[268] So they'd be older than my dad.

[269] Right.

[270] Okay.

[271] Well, thank you.

[272] Thank you for your service.

[273] Should we just do a quick note at the top of this episode?

[274] If you are a podcast listener who also is in their 90s, our apologies to you.

[275] And thank you.

[276] You are the greatest, it turns out.

[277] Your kids, not so much.

[278] Call your kids and ask them.

[279] What?

[280] the problem is.

[281] Are they Hollywood elite?

[282] Because they kind of act like it.

[283] Are you phony?

[284] All right.

[285] Exactly Right Corner.

[286] Let's do it.

[287] All right.

[288] Hey, we have a podcast network.

[289] It's called Exactly Right Media.

[290] Here are some highlights.

[291] The first two episodes of our brand new series, Infamous International, The Pink Panther Story, drops Thursday, September 14th.

[292] Please don't forget to follow that show.

[293] So you can be there for every single episode.

[294] I think we're putting out two on the day that it drops so people can get hooked.

[295] Guys, rate, review, subscribe.

[296] We appreciate it.

[297] And then hilarious comedian Maria Bamford joins Kurt and Scotty this week on bananas to discuss the world's weirdest news.

[298] She also has a new book coming out that looks so good.

[299] It's called, Sure, I'll join your cult, a memoir of mental illness and the quest to belong anywhere.

[300] God, I love that woman.

[301] If you haven't seen Maria Bamford's comedy, please do yourself the favor.

[302] Talk about something good to look forward to.

[303] Maria Bamford is arguably the best stand -up comic of the last 40 years, unbelievably talented, unbelievably brilliant.

[304] And then she also does impressions of people that you've never met, but you know when she's doing them.

[305] And she's incredible.

[306] All of her stand -up specials are amazing.

[307] She did one of them.

[308] She filmed it in her parents' living room and did it just to the audience of her parents.

[309] It's amazing.

[310] She's so genius.

[311] She's so good.

[312] Babs, Tess, and Brandy over on Lady to Lady are Bridgers guests this week on I Said No Gives, the ultimate crossover.

[313] I love an ERM crossover.

[314] At Barry Bones, Kate Winkler -Dawson and Paul Holes cover a young girl's murder in 1958, a historic case that changed the Canadian legal system forever.

[315] Check that out.

[316] Also, if you're so inclined, the MFM stores currently hosting an end of summer sale, no, it's not over yet.

[317] You can save up to 20 % off and receive free standard shipping and a pair of MFM socks on all orders over $75.

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[324] Go to my favorite murder .com to find our store and everything else you want to find right there.

[325] Who's going first this week?

[326] You.

[327] It sounded fake as I said it, but I really meant it.

[328] Hey, I have a question.

[329] Here's my first question.

[330] Am I supposed to know what's going on?

[331] Now, I heard lately you've had some dishwasher trouble, Karen.

[332] Tell me about that.

[333] Oh, God, I hate talk shows.

[334] Team me up.

[335] Team me up for the next bit.

[336] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[337] Absolutely.

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[356] Goodbye.

[357] Okay.

[358] I am very excited to get to tell you this story.

[359] Alej, do you know who found this story?

[360] story that I'm doing today.

[361] Was it Marin?

[362] Was it you?

[363] Was it Hannah?

[364] Was it me?

[365] Was it a ghost?

[366] Um, I think it was you, Karen.

[367] Yeah, you send it to Marin.

[368] But if I already knew that and I just, that was also fake, even more brilliant, brilliant mind.

[369] See what a phony I am?

[370] Okay, so there is a TikTok account and also, I think more famously, a YouTube account.

[371] And it's now Wondry podcast, Mr. Ballin.

[372] And he covers true crime, and he's really good at it.

[373] He's great at telling a story.

[374] And I saw a TikTok of this story, and I could not believe I'd never heard of it.

[375] It's just a story I can't believe.

[376] So thanks to Mr. Ballin, and please listen to that podcast when you get a chance, because if you haven't already, you probably already do.

[377] But if you haven't, you'll love it.

[378] So here's the story.

[379] Okay, so it starts on Sunday, July 30th, 2007.

[380] outside of the McDonough family home in a small New England town, Chelmsford, Massachusetts.

[381] The odds that it's not pronounced Chelmsford are so high, but we're going to plow ahead.

[382] Great.

[383] This family consists of Kevin and Jeannie, the parents, and then their two teenage children, Ryan and Shea.

[384] They live in a cute, quiet neighborhood that's actually strange that it's quiet because it's very close to Interstate 495.

[385] And tonight the kids are out with friends.

[386] Jeannie and Kevin went out to eat and then now they're home watching a Red Sox game.

[387] Their 15 -year -old daughter, Shea, is the youngest child.

[388] She's got a midnight curfew.

[389] She comes home like 15 minutes early.

[390] She goes through the back door.

[391] That's been left unlocked for her.

[392] And she knows her brother Ryan is coming home after her and she figures she's just going to leave the door unlocked instead of getting woken up two hours later from a text from him saying, You know me in the back door.

[393] Yeah.

[394] I've never heard him speak.

[395] That was not.

[396] That sounds like a brother, for sure.

[397] Right?

[398] Come on.

[399] Come in.

[400] So what she doesn't know is that Ryan already called his parents and told them he's staying at his friend's house tonight.

[401] Mm -hmm.

[402] Oh, shit.

[403] So She goes to bed, and the next thing she remembers is waking up and feeling something cold on her neck.

[404] Here's a quote from her.

[405] She says, quote, I thought it was a gun.

[406] I didn't know it was a knife.

[407] I just saw dark eyes and a mask.

[408] The man spoke, and it was a voice I didn't recognize.

[409] And he said, if you make any effing noise, I'm going to kill you.

[410] And that's when I went into panic mode and I started kicking.

[411] I pushed my back against the bed, hoping to make as much noise as possible so that my parents would wake up and hear me. End quote.

[412] Oh, my God.

[413] So such a smart woman for immediately thinking about what she can be doing, if nothing else, with a knife to her neck.

[414] to help herself out.

[415] And it actually works.

[416] Kevin and Jeannie hear these noises coming from their daughter's room.

[417] They get out of bed, they go to investigate, and what they find is a huge black silhouette standing over their daughter's bed, holding an enormous knife to her neck.

[418] They both immediately run at this figure, and I will just trigger, warn you, now for an upsetting injury detail that is coming up in like about a sentence and a half.

[419] Kevin immediately jumps onto this, hands back, and Jeannie grabs the stranger's 15 -inch knife blade with her bare hand and does not let go.

[420] I know what this one is because of that injury.

[421] Did you see me waiting my hands in the air just now?

[422] Yeah.

[423] Because I knew what was happening, and I was like, oh, yeah, she's the biggest badass of all time.

[424] She actually would go on to say that she did not feel anything when she did this, even though that 15 -inch knife cut through.

[425] to the book.

[426] Horrible.

[427] I'm sorry.

[428] We can all come back.

[429] I won't do that again.

[430] But this is a horrible story.

[431] This is the story of a literal knife -wielding maniac breaking into people's homes.

[432] So this is where we're at.

[433] So still on the man's back, Kevin calls to his daughter and yells, Kyle 9 -1 -1 and go get my gun.

[434] And he'll later say, quote, I don't have a gun, but something inside me told me to say that to keep this man on his guard.

[435] So smart.

[436] Oh, my God.

[437] Right?

[438] So Shea takes off running out of the room as her parents fight to restrain this maniac.

[439] Even though the man has about 100 pounds on Kevin, Kevin was a high school wrestler.

[440] And he knows he's fine that it's a bigger guy.

[441] All he has to do is get him in a chokehold.

[442] So he throws all of his weight into that.

[443] And he's able to pull the man down to the floor and he basically is able to choke him out.

[444] And then he and Jeannie, who's still bleeding from her cut up.

[445] hands restrain their daughter's attacker until the police arrive.

[446] In addition to that knife, the officers find Chinese throwing stars and choking wire in the fanny pack on this man's waist.

[447] And when they identify him, they learn that he's a 43 -year -old long -haul trucker from North Carolina who himself has a wife and kids.

[448] But what they also learn is that this man is a serial killer.

[449] This is the story of the highway killer, Adam Leroy Lane.

[450] Oh, my God.

[451] So the sources used today are the Mr. Ballin podcast, as I mentioned from TikTok.

[452] A 2013 episode of 48 hours called Family Under Attack Stop's Serial Killer.

[453] That's what I saw.

[454] The 48 hours.

[455] It's incredible.

[456] Yeah.

[457] It's such a great horrifying story.

[458] So a 2009 episode of Dateline NBC titled A Stranger in the House.

[459] A 2007 AP article entitled Picture Emerges of a Deadly Stalker by Alan G. Breed.

[460] And the rest of the sources are in our show notes if you want to go look at those.

[461] Okay, so on the same night of the attack on the McDonough family, officers find and search Adam Leroy Lane's semi -trailer.

[462] Inside they find a spotting scope, knives, and a copy of a low -budget movie called Hunting Humans.

[463] It's like the most not chill fucking thing I've ever.

[464] Yeah, that's just a series of items that each one you pull out and you're just like, ugh, like your stomach drops worse and worse.

[465] And then that's basically like, what are, oh my God, what are you doing?

[466] A detective named George Tyros is assigned to this case.

[467] He and his colleagues quickly connect Lane with multiple 911 calls that were placed in the area that same night.

[468] In one instance, police respond to a woman's home after she reported a person.

[469] dressed in black lurking outside and then not long after that another woman calls police saying that a man dressed in black is standing in her yard watching her daughter through a window oh my god and the woman says that when this man realizes he's been spotted he runs to their front door and starts beating on it maniacally and then he smashes their porch light before he leaves and then the next 911 call they get after that one is the call from the mcdonas So it's like right in a row.

[470] So Adam Leroy Lane's taken to jail where he is held without bail and the officers put out an all -points bulletin to departments in other states because even though Lane's record in Massachusetts is clean, Detective Tyros knows this could not be his first attempt at a home invasion.

[471] Within days he gets a response from a detective in New Jersey named Jeff Noble.

[472] Detective Noble is investigating the seemingly random murder that took place just one.

[473] day before Shea McDonough is attacked.

[474] So Monica Massaro is a 38 -year -old woman who lives alone in a beautiful historic home in a small town called Bloomsbury, New Jersey.

[475] You know, it's just the classic tragic story that you see when you're watching, Dateline or 48 hours.

[476] It's a beautiful woman who's living her life to the fullest.

[477] She owns her own cleaning business.

[478] She's really social, fiercely independent.

[479] She travels the globe She goes out with friends She dates a lot And she loves spending time With her parents Frank and Faye One of Monica's friends Tells a reporter quote She used to say that where she lived Was like living in a Norman Rockwell painting She felt safe and everyone was friendly She just loved living there End quote So she knows most of the people In her small town And like many other people in Bloomsbury She leaves her doors unlocked Yeah So the morning of July 30th, one of Monica's clients is unable to reach her.

[480] So they call the police and ask to basically go do a wellness check to make sure she's okay.

[481] And when officers arrive at her house, they see Monica's car in the driveway.

[482] No one answers the door when they knock.

[483] So after a few moments, they enter the unlocked home.

[484] They take a look around, but there's no signs of disturbance.

[485] And then they enter her bedroom.

[486] And that's where they find the body of Monica Massaro lying on her blood -soaked bed.

[487] dead from multiple stab wounds.

[488] Oh, my God.

[489] A detective noble is put on this case, and he cannot make sense of it.

[490] He talks to Monica's family and friends.

[491] He even checks her dating history, but Monica is just roundly adored in this town.

[492] So he goes back to the crime scene again, trying to find something new, and one of the many times he revisits the crime scene, he realizes there's a truck stop at the end of her block, just off Interstate 78.

[493] And that's when he thinks, quote, there's all kinds of people from all over the place frequenting this particular stop.

[494] That just makes this case so much bigger.

[495] I mean, huge.

[496] It could be anyone now.

[497] Right.

[498] And quote.

[499] So when Detective Noble hears about this all points bulletin coming from Massachusetts describing a violent home invasion involving a truck driver, he's putting it together thinking there could be a connection to this murder that he just caught.

[500] So he reaches out to Detective Tyros and he asks if they can compare notes.

[501] He learns that the officers there have access to Adam Lane's truck.

[502] So he asks if the Massachusetts police have found any indication that Lane may have stopped in New Jersey or had been in the I -78 in recent weeks.

[503] And when Detective Tyros goes back to the truck because it's still being processed, He sifts through everything that's in there And amid all the truck logs, receipts, and toll records He finds a receipt from a truck stop in Bloomsbury, New Jersey From July 29th, 2007, which is the day Monica was murdered.

[504] Holy shit.

[505] So he's now certain he's connected Lane to Monica's death.

[506] So he asks to interview him.

[507] And Detective Tyros tells him, go ahead, but we haven't had any luck he's not talking.

[508] Somehow, Detective Noble gets him to open up.

[509] And the first thing that Lane says to him is, quote, this is going to kill my family.

[510] And then he goes on to admit to murdering Monica Massaro in cold blood.

[511] He says after he parked his truck in the Bloomsbury truck stop, he walked around the neighborhood nearby, jiggling doorknobs until one finally opened.

[512] What the fuck?

[513] Oh, my God.

[514] He says Monica was sleeping.

[515] she woke up she started screaming and he repeatedly stabbed her but when detectives ask if he was sexually motivated lane adamantly claims it was not very odd so this confession is not the end of the story though it's actually just the beginning because 17 days before monica masaro was murdered in new jersey and 18 days before shea mcdona was attacked in massachusetts there was a murder in harrisburg Pennsylvania.

[516] This is the part of Mr. Ballin's story that I saw that was the mind -blowing part, this case here.

[517] So on Friday, July 13th, a 42 -year -old woman named Darlene Ewald is sitting on her back patio talking to her friend Chet on the phone.

[518] It's about 10 o 'clock at night.

[519] Darlene's husband, Todd, opens the patio door and says that he's going to bed for the night.

[520] And Darlene says, I'll be off the phone in a second, and then I'm going to come right up.

[521] But as Todd falls asleep, Darlene is still talking on the phone outside.

[522] The next thing Todd knows, he's waking up to his bedroom door, being kicked open and several men with guns and flashlights storming into his bedroom.

[523] Todd thinks it might be a home invasion until one man announces that they are state troopers.

[524] And within minutes, he and his son Nick, Nick's in his early 20s, and he lives at home.

[525] They're both handcuffed, taken downstairs and questioned.

[526] They have no idea what's going on.

[527] Oh my God, what the fuck?

[528] That's when Todd sees his wife's keys and purse sitting on their kitchen table and then there's a flash from outside.

[529] There's flash photography outside on the patio and that's when he fears the worst.

[530] After several hours, police finally confirmed Todd's fear that his wife, Darlene, has been brutally murdered.

[531] Oh, my God.

[532] That is so fucking tragic.

[533] So basically, here's what happened after Todd told Darlene he was going up stairs to go to bed.

[534] Chet, who's the guy that Darlene was talking on the phone to, he hears Darlene say, oh, God, four times.

[535] Then it's followed by muffled sounds, and then the call cut out.

[536] And he was so freaked out by that, by what he heard, that he and his wife get into their car and drive over to the EWalt's house, and they find Darlene stabbed to death on the patio.

[537] And she was stabbed in her neck.

[538] Oh, my God.

[539] run to see if their friend is okay and she's been murdered holy fuck darleen's husband todd says quote that's when things started to fall apart for me i remember hearing my son scream he was in the kitchen still handcuffed end quote so todd and nick are both considered suspects but soon the focus narrows down to just todd and the local district attorney later tells date line, quote, in this case, we had a husband who was in the house, who apparently didn't hear anything when his wife was killed on the back patio while she was on the phone with another man. Certainly, the police wanted to talk to Mr. Ewald back at the police station and determine exactly what was going on at that residence, end quote.

[540] So, of course, this is a living nightmare for Todd.

[541] Darlene is his beloved wife, the mother of his children, his best friend.

[542] He's known her since he was 15 years old.

[543] He said, quote, they just wanted me to break down and say I did it or I paid someone to do it, but I knew I didn't do it.

[544] End quote.

[545] So when police asked Todd to take a lie detector test, he complies and when they tell Todd he failed to test, he says, quote, how could I fail it when I didn't commit the crime?

[546] They tell him, will you tell us?

[547] And he says, I don't have an explanation.

[548] Oh, dear.

[549] See, yes, I ask for a lawyer, you know?

[550] Hey, guess what the next line is.

[551] So Todd, Todd's family, get him a lawyer.

[552] The entire family rallies around Todd E. Walt, including their two children.

[553] They fiercely defend him.

[554] His daughter Nicole says, quote, I never asked myself once if my dad killed my mom because I just knew.

[555] But no one can think of anyone who could have wanted to kill Darlene.

[556] Nicole says, quote, my mom had no enemies.

[557] She had a great personality.

[558] She was just loved by everybody.

[559] Why would someone want to hurt her, let alone kill her who could be such a monster end quote so now todd ewalt is feeling this pressure mounting and as he is the investigation into monica masaro's death continues in new jersey detective noble has a confession for that murder he's still working to build an ironclad case that shows adam loray lane is that killer so he sends the knives that they find on lane and in the truck out for DNA testing.

[560] And Detective Noble says, quote, several weeks after we submitted Adam Lane's knives to our laboratory for analysis, we got word what the results were.

[561] Not only was Monica Masaro's DNA on his knives, but so was Darlene E .waltz.

[562] Wow.

[563] And through that same DNA, they connect yet another knife attack in Pennsylvania.

[564] Just days after Darlene E .Walt was murdered, a woman named Patricia Brooks is attacked in her.

[565] home near the interstate.

[566] So on the night of July 17th, Patricia Brooks wakes up to a man dressed in all black, stabbing her shoulder with a large knife.

[567] She's somehow able to fight him off and the man runs.

[568] Patricia calls 911.

[569] And when the police arrive, they find discarded latex gloves like in the area.

[570] So they keep them as evidence.

[571] Then they send them off for DNA testing.

[572] And when those gloves come back, they have both Adam Leroy Lane's DNA on them and Darlene E .Waltz.

[573] So Patricia Brooks survives this attack and will later identify Lane in a police lineup.

[574] Thank God.

[575] And to the incredible relief of the entire EWalt family, this information finally exonerates Todd EWalt.

[576] Unfortunately, they learn about it on the news.

[577] No. Yes.

[578] So not great.

[579] No. Todd, of course, is incredibly relieved that he's no longer suspected of killing his wife.

[580] But then he learns about the McDonough family in Massachusetts who fought off and captured his wife's killer.

[581] Todd says, quote, I can't even begin to think of how bad it would have been if Lane was never caught.

[582] I think I would have been on trial for the murder of my wife.

[583] Oh, God.

[584] Now Adam Lurie Lane faces a laundry list of charges in multiple states and a preliminary hearing related to the attack at the McDonough House up first.

[585] Jeannie McDunna shows up to the hearing, ready to see justice served.

[586] And she would later say, quote, even though Lane terrified me, I wanted to face this guy down.

[587] I'm sorry, dude, you don't come into my house and attack my family.

[588] I'm going to be there.

[589] I'm going to watch you every step of the way.

[590] Wow.

[591] End quote.

[592] This hearing does not result in a trial because Adam Lurray Lane accepts a plea deal and a sentence to 25 to 30 years in prison for attempting to murder Shay McDonough.

[593] Next, he's tried for the murder of Monica Massaro.

[594] Both the McDonough's and the Ewaltz are there in the courtroom for this trial in a showing of solidarity with Monica's parents, Frank and Faye.

[595] Jeannie says, quote, even though the legal battles for us were over, I was going to see this thing through.

[596] I was going to make sure that I was at every hearing he was at and that I was with the families of the other victims.

[597] It's amazing.

[598] It's incredible.

[599] These three grieving families become a support system for each other.

[600] Jeannie says, quote, it showed a lot of solidarity between the families, the connection that we all feel as a result of being tormented by this guy, end quote.

[601] And Shea McDonough says, quote, I remember giving Monica's mom a hug and just saying how sorry I was and just really feeling her pain.

[602] And Jeannie and Kevin are introduced to Todd Ewalt for the first time.

[603] They learned that their bravery didn't just save their daughter's life, but his as well.

[604] And Todd tells a reporter, quote, I was just thankful to meet them just to shake their hand and tell them thank you, end quote.

[605] I mean, what a, like, what a connection, what a group of people.

[606] Totally.

[607] So at the culmination of this trial, Adam Leroyne is sentenced to 50 years in prison, which is on top of the 25 to 30 that he's already received for Shea McDonough's attack.

[608] And soon after, he's convicted for the murder of Darlene Ewalt and sentenced to life in prison.

[609] It's unclear why Adam Luray Lane went on this killing spree attacking and murdering all these women in July of 2007.

[610] Yeah, it's so weird that it was just like a spree like that.

[611] It's berserking.

[612] It is like the craziest, like one right after the other wild thing.

[613] And the weirdest part is he doesn't have red flags in his personal history like most serial killers usually do.

[614] Really?

[615] By most accounts, he had an uneventful childhood.

[616] He grew up to be a somewhat boring man. He had no violent criminal record.

[617] Doesn't mean he's not violent.

[618] He just never got caught doing anything.

[619] He's also adamant that his crimes weren't sexually motivated, which is like, why you're so keyed up about it.

[620] Yeah, and like Broseph, why would we believe anything you fucking say?

[621] Yeah.

[622] Detective Jeff Noble says, quote, Adam Lane, no doubt about it is perhaps the most dangerous man that I've seen personally.

[623] And the reason is because there is no explanation.

[624] There is no why with Adam Lane.

[625] He killed, in my opinion, for the sport of it.

[626] End quote.

[627] But perhaps the best insight here comes from Lane's ex -wife, Miriam, who tells reporters that Lane is, in fact, an abusive misogynist.

[628] She says, quote, he thought women were beneath him and that he could do whatever he wanted.

[629] He hit me one time.

[630] He abused his mom.

[631] He would cuss her, call her names, and hit her.

[632] So Jeannie McDonough accepts that she might never know why Lane turned out this way or what exactly led him to entering her family's home that hot summer night but she would never stop wondering and this curiosity culminates in her writing a book called Caught in the Act which she co -authors with noted true crime writer Paul Leonardo and Genia remains in touch with the Maceros and the EWaltz Todd and Darlene EWalt's daughter Nicole says quote the McDonough's stopped an innocent man from going to jail they put a guilty man away and they saved countless women.

[633] I can call Jeannie any time.

[634] She's programmed into my speed dial.

[635] And usually at the end of every phone call, it ends with I love you.

[636] It's almost like a second mother, end quote.

[637] But Jeannie simply says, quote, we did what any other parent would have done in the same situation.

[638] Protect your child and go into survival mode.

[639] We're just survivors.

[640] And that's the unbelievable story of the highway killer Adam Lurie Lane and the love shared.

[641] by the families that he terrorized.

[642] Oh, my God.

[643] Can you believe that fucking story?

[644] I mean, the thing that always stuck with me about that story, almost as much as the fucking hand catching the knife thing, is the idea of your parents bursting into your room, like superheroes to save your life.

[645] And, like, what a beautiful thing that is.

[646] And, like, they were able to do what I think as most parents, would say is like their dream is to protect their child.

[647] It's just such an incredible story.

[648] And they saved so many other families from the same awful fate because they were so brave.

[649] Yeah.

[650] It's just unbelievable.

[651] Meanwhile, they couldn't have known, obviously, but then the ripple effect where this insanely very strange, it's like a closed room mystery of Darlene Ewalt in her backyard on the phone, hanging out and suddenly she's dead and it's like well the husband did it right that's what everyone says that's the assumption and that would have been the assumption because there was no other explanation and they weren't looking for another explanation a stranger just happening upon this woman is so out of fucking out of the ordinary yeah it doesn't match what we all think of as like motives and white people will get killed it's if we're going to give it up detective george tyros is the one out that APB.

[652] So because he knew, it's like the difference in all that kind of over the years collective knowledge that investigators have where it's like this is a very extreme advanced home invasion attempted murder.

[653] This person's not new.

[654] This must have happened before.

[655] Let's collect our information.

[656] Let's all get out there and like share the information, talk to other police departments.

[657] The thing that so often doesn't happen.

[658] been is exactly what they did this time yeah because he would have gotten only 25 to 30 years and out on good behavior probably if he hadn't done that yeah you know yeah if they hadn't connected more it's like he would have been out and there would just been cold case murders and yeah it's just like if you wrote this as a movie people would be like sorry this is not realistic at all yeah yeah yeah unbelievable good job thank you great job marin McClashen my researcher who who put it together like a superstar.

[659] All right, let's do a fucking pirouette, shall we?

[660] Yes, always.

[661] And I'll go to it.

[662] It's disturbing, but it's not the same.

[663] Karen, today I'm going to tell you about the creation, history, and controversy of the wildly popular bodies exhibits.

[664] I could have sworn I had this on my list.

[665] I am obsessed with this story.

[666] Are you?

[667] Have you been?

[668] Tell me your story.

[669] Have you been?

[670] It came out in the 90s, right?

[671] When I was at my most curious and doubtful of all things.

[672] And the second I saw it, I was like, who would want to go and tour that and look at it?

[673] Like, who did this?

[674] Whose idea was this?

[675] Because it immediately seemed so creepy to me. It's so morbid.

[676] Did you go?

[677] Because I went in San Francisco in the early 2000s.

[678] You did?

[679] You know, I've always been fascinated with true crime and vintage murder photos.

[680] And I've seen a lot of that stuff.

[681] So I was like, I can handle this.

[682] I had to leave.

[683] I was so lightheaded and overwhelmed by what I saw that I had to walk out.

[684] It was just, I was really dizzy and like how to sit down for a while.

[685] It's so disturbing.

[686] That's fascinating to hear that because.

[687] It's the kind of thing that I feel like happens often in culture where stuff gets popular and people are like, I love this.

[688] And then you're having your own individual reaction to it going like, sorry, what?

[689] Yeah.

[690] Well, it's like the museum of death.

[691] People think that we'd be really into that.

[692] But we're not into memorabilia of fucking murderers.

[693] Like, that's not, you know, what we're interested in.

[694] Well, yeah, that's kind of the thing we talked about when we first started this podcast for.

[695] It's less about the infamy of the serial killers themselves and more of the stories of how is this possible.

[696] But, yeah, it's just, it's just, okay, I want you to talk about this because this is so exciting.

[697] Okay.

[698] So my main sources for this story are a 2007 article from The Independent by Jeremy Lawrence and a 2013 article from Wired by Daniel Ingber and the rest of the sources can be found in a show note.

[699] So just right up to that, the creator of this entire thing is Gunter von Huggins.

[700] He's born Gunter Gerhard Liebhen in 1945 in what is now Poland, but at the time it had been annexed by Germany.

[701] In the first few months of his life as World War II draws to a close and the Red Army approaches, his family flees west, what will ultimately become a part of East Germany, which is fucking dark.

[702] So Gunter has hemophilia, a disorder that stops his blood from clotting properly, and at six years old he's hospitalized for six months, and this sparks his interest in medicine.

[703] And you can kind of imagine a young child wondering what the inner workings of his body is doing when he has hemophilia, right?

[704] Like it kind of connects, don't you think?

[705] Absolutely.

[706] I think that's such a scary, probably especially for a child, scary disease to have, where if you just have a normal cut, you could die.

[707] So there's something maybe that's, as a child, you have to think about much more than any other kid.

[708] Sure.

[709] You become obsessive, maybe.

[710] So he leaves school at 16, works a number of odd jobs, including as a mailman and an elevator attendant.

[711] After going to night school, he gets accepted to a university to study medicine, which just shows you should follow your fucking dreams.

[712] Sure.

[713] Yeah.

[714] At 23, he's caught trying to flee to West Germany with a four, Passport, goes to prison for two years when he gets out, he's able to complete medical school and becomes an anesthesiologist.

[715] He looks to me as an adult, personally, like he'd be played by a not red -headed David Caruso.

[716] You see that?

[717] From CSI, Miami, right?

[718] Sure.

[719] Like, just, I don't know, that's who I'm picturing when I see him.

[720] So at around age 30 in 1975, he gets married, and he takes his wife's name, which is von Hoggins.

[721] And he says the reason for changing his name is because his real last name, Liebhen, means little darling in German, so he gets teased about a lot.

[722] So he took his wife's name?

[723] Yeah.

[724] He's not going to get teased about that.

[725] Not as much as being called little darling, I'd assume.

[726] That's why he says he did it, but some people point out that Dr. Von Hagen's father was a Nazi SS officer, so it's possible he also may have been inspired to change his last name to kind of distance himself from that, you know?

[727] I would imagine that would be the number one reason.

[728] I would hope.

[729] You got to hope.

[730] Either way, he keeps the name, even though he eventually divorces and remarries.

[731] He still keeps that last name.

[732] Hmm.

[733] Sounds progressive.

[734] Who knows?

[735] Not long after his first marriage, Dr. Von Huggins takes to wearing a black fedora.

[736] It's his like Steve Jobs fucking, you know, piece, meaning it becomes his signature look.

[737] Sure.

[738] But the time he's famous, he'll never be photo.

[739] photographed without it.

[740] One article says it's originally meant to cover up his baldness, but he says it's a symbol of individuality, which, you know, could be both.

[741] You know, much like a baseball hat is a symbol of individuality.

[742] It's really, it sets you apart.

[743] That's why Steve Jobs where the turtleneck is to cover up his neck baldness.

[744] Right?

[745] Is that what they say?

[746] Yeah, that's what they, that's the rumor.

[747] I don't know if it's true.

[748] You know, they call them old naked neck.

[749] It's just real embarrassing.

[750] So in 1977, Dr. Von Huggins discovered a method for filling dead kidney tissue with plastic.

[751] And he then comes up with a method to do it with many other types of tissue.

[752] So here's some info about it that if you're a scientist, you might understand.

[753] Wired magazine reports that quote, he starts with regular embalming the injection of formaldehyde in dephemeral arteries and then submerges the body in acetone, which dissolves its fat and water.

[754] After that, he drops the corpse into a basin filled with liquid polymer.

[755] It's placed inside a vacuum chamber where the acetone bubbles off as plastic pushes in to take its place, end quote.

[756] So it's the basics.

[757] Why, though?

[758] Like, he's a doctor.

[759] He could be studying anything in the world.

[760] And what he's studying is how to basically take people apart.

[761] I think it almost sounds like a different way to embalm people, you know, to me where he's, like, trying to figure that out.

[762] I'm sure it's educational for, you know, students, medical students.

[763] He patents this process that he figured out, calling it plastination.

[764] Originally, Dr. Von Hogan sells his plastinated cadavers and body parts to educational institutions.

[765] So originally it's for educational purposes.

[766] Okay.

[767] And he sees that.

[768] But in the 1990s, when Karen's like, you know, goth and shit, he revives the old tradition of public anatomy exhibitions.

[769] So in the 1800s, as we know, atomical exhibitions were considered seedy, but were very, very common.

[770] The article in Wired says, quote, these were galleries of the grotesque showing waxen models of dissected naked women, dismembered genitalia, and casts of skin disease or venereal infection, end quote.

[771] Like the Mutur Museum.

[772] Yeah, exactly.

[773] But I mean, that is educational.

[774] Because you, as a non -doctoral, are probably never going to see the effects of syphilis on someone's nose from, you know, Like, that was fascinating.

[775] I understand that part.

[776] But much like being at the Mooder Museum where it's like, you can only take so much.

[777] If you're not a doctor type, you're kind of looking at it and then you're like, okay, got it.

[778] Right.

[779] Because it's intense.

[780] I get it.

[781] Yeah, it's just intense to see.

[782] I think it just shows us.

[783] that shows humans how like vulnerable we are, you know.

[784] It's just, it's creepy.

[785] The procurement of bodies for exhibits and for scientific institutions, of course, has always been highly problematic.

[786] We've done episodes about these problems.

[787] And actually just a few weeks ago on August 15th, 20203, the Washington Post reported on how in the 1930s, the Smithsonian's chief anthropologist dug up the remains of indigenous people in Alaska and displayed them to promote racist and false theories about human anatomy.

[788] So even if it's an educational quote unquote, it doesn't mean it's correct in any way.

[789] Yes, that's down to the people who are choosing to do it and what their beliefs are and their reasons are.

[790] By the 1920s, these types of exhibits were no longer popular until Dr. von Huggins revives them.

[791] So they totally got out of style.

[792] He's like the guy who was like, I see a void, I'm going to fill it.

[793] Dr. von Hagen's first exhibits Plastinated Bodies in Tokyo in 1995, his show, which is called Body Worlds, then makes its way to Mannheim, Germany, by the end of 1997.

[794] It's wildly popular.

[795] In its first two months in Germany, 200 ,000 people attend the exhibit, which is a lot of fucking people.

[796] That's huge, yeah.

[797] The New York Times describes the displays, saying, quote, the runner, which is the name of one of the exhibits, is frozen in the loping gate of a marathoner stripped of almost everything except bones and muscles.

[798] Its outer muscles fly backwards off its bones as if the muscles were being blown by the wind rushing past.

[799] So like they were all in motion, all these, and like in poses and doing things, right?

[800] Right.

[801] Yeah.

[802] They also say the muscle man is a bare skeleton that holds up its entire system of muscles, which looks like an astronaut's bulky space suit dangling on a hanger.

[803] Like they were a little exploitative the way he posed them.

[804] Yeah, like he was, in his mind, he's demonstrating how people use their muscles, but...

[805] Right.

[806] But they were a little like, they were a little tongue and cheeky.

[807] Oh, really?

[808] Yeah.

[809] Oh, yeah.

[810] So here's one.

[811] The figure with skin retains all its muscles and organs, but its skin is draped like like a coat over one arm.

[812] Oh, no. So they're definitely tongue and cheeky, like running, and it shows, like, their, like, skin blowing backwards.

[813] The expanded body resembles a human telescope.

[814] Its skeleton pulled apart so people can see what lies beneath the skull and the rib cage, unquote, end quote, disquote.

[815] I do remember the runner, there was a picture of the runner in, like, the SF Weekly, whenever it came through.

[816] And just, yeah, it just is really gross looking.

[817] It's disturbing.

[818] It's disturbing.

[819] But it's also fascinating in a lot of ways.

[820] It's like it's a way that we've never seen ourselves before and almost like a way to realize how delicate we are.

[821] And you suddenly realize that that's what you're made up of.

[822] And I think that's what made me so lightheaded and dizzy is how fucking fragile and intricate everything is.

[823] And yet somehow we're just fucking walking down.

[824] the street like no big what right anyway the exhibit which dr von hoggins describes as quote he called so he calls it anatomical art it immediately sparks a debate in germany on the ethics of such a display catholic and protestant leaders of course come forward as they like to do and they take particular issue with it one academic theologian and ethicist says quote the manheim exhibit fits somewhere between art and commerce, one in which the likely damage to taboos has been factored in as a cost.

[825] He who styles human corpses as a so -called work of art no longer respects the importance of death.

[826] So throughout the late 90s and the early 2000s, Body Worlds is a huge commercial success, and Dr. Von Huggins expands his plastination empire.

[827] He has hundreds of people working for him in Germany and China all over to plasticinate human remains.

[828] Dr. Von Hogan says that all of the people whose bodies are plastinated have consented to the process.

[829] But you remember when the whole controversy came up about that, right?

[830] That they didn't have that permission?

[831] Yeah.

[832] So in 2003, a reporter for the British Medical Journal points to ambiguities in Dr. Von Hogan's accounting for where the bodies come from and the consent process.

[833] The reporter writes, quote, One of the most controversial pieces in his exhibition in London was the reclining figure of an eight months pregnant woman with her womb open to show the fetus.

[834] Oh, God.

[835] Yeah, and it goes on to say, it is hard to imagine why the woman thought she might die and how exactly Von Huggins managed to obtain her consent to preserve her after death.

[836] When I asked him, he said that he could not divulge for legal and confidentiality reasons, the exact circumstances in which any of his, quote, Plastinates died because that might make it possible to identify them, unquote.

[837] So it's this thing of like, I can't tell you for their privacy, but also like I don't have to tell you anything because of privacy.

[838] Right.

[839] So it's a little sketch.

[840] Also, sorry, but when you said the thing about people working in China to make these, it sounds like he's producing like hundreds of bodies doing this.

[841] to hundreds of bodies.

[842] Why isn't it 10 things that will make you go, oh my God, like that's, I see what the fragility of the human body is all about and that's the thing that's on tour.

[843] Why is he making a bunch of different ones?

[844] At a type of popularity and even now, there's multiple shows going on throughout the world too.

[845] Like it's very, very popular, you know?

[846] Yes, but I guess if you're going to argue it's educational, then you would only need the one show and you'd only need to plastinate 10 bodies as opposed to make factories of people plasticinating bodies.

[847] Totally.

[848] Because how in the world would people be giving permission to be put on display?

[849] Well, wait for this.

[850] Uh -oh.

[851] Well, okay, before I get to that, and I'll tell you, in January of 2004, Germany's most prominent news magazine Der Spiegel.

[852] I've heard that.

[853] Have you?

[854] alleges that Dr. Von Huggins, his company, had bought the bodies of executed Chinese prisoners.

[855] So that was the big fucking controversy, remember?

[856] Yes, now that you say it, yeah.

[857] The article cites emails from a former employee of his, and the magazine claims that some of the bodies have bullet holes in their heads.

[858] Oh.

[859] For his part, Dr. Ron Hogan says that as far as he knows, neither he nor anyone in his company accepted the victims of execution.

[860] he also says that the large majority of the bodies in his original exhibition come from Europe and he has long maintained a registry of people who wish to donate their bodies.

[861] So people fucking sign up for this.

[862] Like, I'm a donor, but there are people who like think that this is, I get why it would be in someone's mind that this would be a way to like be immortal almost, you know?

[863] I'm talking about people who buy their free will because even if the Chinese prisoners did quote unquote sign up for this it's obviously not by their own free will but the people who actually did eventually sign up by their own free will were fucking interested in it i just don't see why it had to turn into like thomas kinkade the painter of light where there had to be factories churning this when they actually were real bodies like yeah that's my only thing is i'm just still baffled by that part and how do you get to that part where you're like no we need more more bodies and more interesting stances or poses or ways to...

[864] Well, it gets worse.

[865] Okay.

[866] All right.

[867] I'm going to stop interrupt.

[868] No, I love it.

[869] It's, I like how interested you are on this.

[870] Okay.

[871] He says, quote, my orders have always been clear.

[872] No one who was sentenced to death, but I wouldn't put my hand in the fire for it and say we weren't perhaps given one or the other execution victim, unquote.

[873] Why is he talking like he's taking orders from someone else?

[874] Yeah.

[875] Isn't this his thing?

[876] He also says, quote, the likelihood is very slim, but I cannot rule it out.

[877] So he's essentially saying that wasn't our point.

[878] That's not what we wanted.

[879] If it happened, it wasn't on my dime.

[880] So Dr. Von Huggins is ultimately granted an interim injunction against your favorite magazine, Der Spiegel.

[881] Der Spiegel.

[882] Which stopped the magazine from claiming that the Body Works exhibit contained the bodies of executed prisoners, which to me means they didn't have any actual proof.

[883] It was just a guy who had worked there, you know, said that, right?

[884] that's proof isn't it i don't know with the success of dr hoggins exhibits he gains a new source of bodies here we go visitors to the exhibits can sign up to donate their own bodies so you're fucking waiting in line at mama or whatever to see this and you can sign up to have your body donated to this you know it could have started with people who donated their bodies to science generally as a doctor or as I don't know if he was a professor or what was able to use those like you don't have to specify like you could become a donor and go to a plastic surgery school and your face can get worked on it's like not like your heart goes to a child and everything's great you know yeah yeah but it does seem to be a couple steps past the line to have all of your skin removed and put over your arm like a coat but you're right that there's people who are like when you're dead, you're dead.

[885] And education is important.

[886] And it shouldn't be a mystery and it shouldn't always be a taboo.

[887] Yeah.

[888] Everyone read the book stiff by Mary Roach and find out what happens to your body.

[889] You're after your life body.

[890] I mean, crash test dummies.

[891] Like, that's, it's just, it's wild.

[892] It's such a good book.

[893] So the visitors sign up to donate their own body.

[894] So it's plausible or even likely that by the mid -2000s, he really does have a supply of consenting people.

[895] But that's not the end of the story when it comes to placinated bodies of unclear origins.

[896] In 2005, an American company called Premier Exhibitions puts on another show called Bodies the Exhibition.

[897] So this has nothing to do with him.

[898] This exhibit is not affiliated with Dr. Von Huggins.

[899] Everyone's trying to jump on this bandwagon.

[900] And also, he's become wealthy from the sale of Placinated remains to scientific institutions.

[901] So they are being legitimately bought as well.

[902] So Bodies, the exhibition, is seen by many as a copycat cash grab.

[903] The show features bodies of about 20 people, as well as body parts, organs, and fetuses in different stages of development.

[904] The bodies in that show come from Dallion Medical University in China, which is a school where Dr. Van Huggins previously had a business relationship.

[905] Uh -oh.

[906] And the person working with premier exhibitions to supply the plasticinated bodies, is the same former colleague of Dr. Von Huggins who had fallen out with him before speaking to Der Spiegel.

[907] So he was like maybe trying to throw him under the bus to be like, we'll come to my show instead.

[908] Oh.

[909] Right?

[910] So that's why it's like questionable if that it was true or not.

[911] Got it.

[912] You know.

[913] Or if he knew about it or not, we can say.

[914] So human rights advocates, of course, vehemently opposed the show.

[915] Harry Wu, director of an organization that specifically looks into abuses in the Chinese penal system says that there's a history of fabricated consent for the donation of organs and body parts in China, of course.

[916] Wu says, quote, considering that China executes between 2 ,000 and 3 ,000 prisoners a year and their long history of freely using death row prisoners for medical purposes, you have to wonder, unquote.

[917] Even if the bodies do not come from non -consenting prison, the words of the president of premier exhibitions, Arnie Geller, are almost as troubling.

[918] The New York Times writes that Geller, quote, insists that the human remains, all but two of them male, are those of the poor, the unclaimed, or the unidentified.

[919] Hmm.

[920] So like Dr. Von Hogan says about his own shows, proponents of this exhibition say that the show is educational.

[921] One part of the exhibition shows the effects of smoking on the lungs.

[922] So that you could say is educational, right?

[923] for people who are coming through to see it and they see what happens when you're a smoker.

[924] But critics say that the show's primary objective is to be profitable and that it's different from using plastinated remains for educational purposes like in medical schools.

[925] So yeah, of course, it's a fucking art show.

[926] In 2009, Dr. Van Huggins opens a new exhibit in Berlin.

[927] This time it's called The Cycle of Life and fucking get this.

[928] It features bodies pose so that they're simulating sex acts.

[929] no absolutely not i mean in your death that is grandma grandma like whatever you were supposed to have gotten from the first exhibition we got it right it doesn't need to have different iterations and i mean i don't think because i literally can still remember the runner because when you see eyes without skin around them and teeth and and muscles and stuff.

[930] It's just like you don't forget it.

[931] It's like it's Terminator 2 kind of stuff.

[932] We were just like it's genuinely scary and also, I don't know.

[933] And if you're like an everyday person like we are, you don't need to see fucking, you don't need to see that.

[934] We don't need to understand that.

[935] If we were really interested, we could look it up in like textbook or whatever.

[936] Like that's for medical students to learn about or for dentists to learn about or for fucking, you know, like we don't need to see it.

[937] And we don't need to see it.

[938] And also, I think there is a thing in human beings where we don't like to see it.

[939] Because that is actually, like we were just talking to this story.

[940] I just told where a woman grabbed a knife, just hearing about that is bad enough.

[941] The idea that you'd be like, well, you can come and look at this display where you can see every level that that night.

[942] It's like, no thanks.

[943] I get it.

[944] I get it when on the verbal.

[945] I get the, yeah.

[946] I don't know.

[947] I will say the thing I did take away personally.

[948] and this might be a very small percentage of the people who see this is how delicate, how beautiful life is that this is what we're made of and yet we get to exist on the planet.

[949] It's, you know, every day is a gift.

[950] All these things of like, you know, it's just, it's overwhelming like what we're made of and yet what we can accomplish and, you know, we're so much bigger than having a bad day.

[951] Like, look what our fucking bodies can do.

[952] do let's like treasure that in a way and in that newest display literally look what our fucking bodies can do i mean that i don't know that's just like yes i think that went one step beyond for sure so of course it causes an uproar as it should dr von hoggins says that the men and women featured in the exhibit have consented to appear in sexual poses so it wasn't just donation like i'd love to see that paperwork i can you send it over in a zip file I'm going to look at every single one.

[953] And because by this point, thousands of people have signed up to donate their bodies, this could be true.

[954] Okay.

[955] And we actually, I looked it up on my favorite murder Gmail account.

[956] And a listener wrote in named Jessica C. wrote in that her father -in -law had been picked up after his bicycle broke down.

[957] He was hitchhiking, get home.

[958] This is in Europe, so it was fine.

[959] And the person who stopped and picked him up and became really like a friend was none other.

[960] than Gunter von Huggins.

[961] And at the end of it, her stepdad said it was a nice car ride and he expressed that he wouldn't mind being a donor in the future.

[962] He told von Huggins right to his face.

[963] No, he didn't tell him that.

[964] He told the daughter -in -law that he, at the end of it, he was like, oh, okay, I'll do it.

[965] Okay.

[966] So by the 2010s, demand for the various bodies exhibits is dying down.

[967] Dr. von Huggins has opened a permanent plasticination facility in Germany, which he calls the Placinarium.

[968] Wired says, quote, at its busiest, the complex employed 220 people and turned out specimens for exhibition, along with those that could be sold to medical schools around the world, limbs and joints for orthopedics, jaws for dentistry, spinal columns for neurology, and $75 ,000 plastic -filled corpses for gross anatomy, end quote.

[969] But it's facing some financial difficulties nowadays, and Dr. Von Hogan says he will hackle to scale back his staff, and they do animals too there, which is very interesting.

[970] The exhibits have long been the moneymaker and the business of plasticinating remains for educational purposes is much smaller.

[971] That said, there are to this day plenty of operational body worlds exhibits.

[972] They're still going on.

[973] There are two traveling exhibits in the U .S. right now and one exhibit of animal remains.

[974] There's also one permanent exhibit in the U .S. and there are several traveling and permanent exhibits in Europe as well.

[975] And to date, the number I found was that they have sold more than 35 million tickets.

[976] Oh, wow.

[977] The BodyWorks website claims that more than 20 ,000 people have signed up to donate their bodies to the exhibit.

[978] I feel like I've been proven wrong that this is just a thing that, like, there are plenty of people who aren't creeped out by this at all.

[979] Yeah.

[980] I bet they feel like it's immortalizing them in some way or like giving back.

[981] to the community through educational purposes, you know what I mean?

[982] Yeah.

[983] Yeah.

[984] I want to go on record and say I do not want this to happen to me when I fucking die.

[985] Well, we'll see what happens.

[986] I mean, like you like to think you can control it, but.

[987] Oh, that's true.

[988] So potential donors can rescind their consent at any time and to be considered have to write an essay.

[989] So they're not just like accepting anyone.

[990] Like I think they're like taking it very seriously, but you can't just be like, I want to do it.

[991] You have to be like, here's why I want to do it.

[992] You know.

[993] Yes.

[994] You'd kind of prove solid thinking and clear, yeah.

[995] Yes.

[996] So Dr. Von Huggins was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease more than 10 years ago and he is currently in his late 70s.

[997] He says he plans to be plastinated after he dies.

[998] He says, quote, my plastinated corpse will then stand in a welcoming pose at the entrance of my exhibition.

[999] Wow.

[1000] And that is the history and story and controversy of the bodies exhibits.

[1001] Amazing.

[1002] I mean, at the end, like, he really is putting his money where his mouth is.

[1003] Like, yes.

[1004] That's good.

[1005] What feels so crazy is it feels like it should have started in the 50s, you know?

[1006] Like, it feels so antiquated.

[1007] And yet it started in the 90s and it's still going on today.

[1008] It's just there's never going to not be a fascination with morbid topics.

[1009] As you can tell by this podcast's popularity.

[1010] I mean, true, except for I am fascinated by true crime and I am so not fascinated by anatomical realities.

[1011] It's not the same.

[1012] Being into like blood and gore is not the same fucking thing as being interested in true crime stories.

[1013] It really isn't.

[1014] Finally people are understanding that, which is good.

[1015] Well, that was fascinating.

[1016] Thank you.

[1017] Yours too.

[1018] Great story.

[1019] Guys, we did it again.

[1020] We did it.

[1021] We brought you two topics just to kind of like, hey, how about this?

[1022] Now, how about this?

[1023] We served them up, and now we're fucking taking them back.

[1024] Thanks for listening every week.

[1025] We really appreciate you, listener, there for us.

[1026] I met a couple people in Petaluma who listened to the podcast, and so lovely.

[1027] It's just so nice to meet people that are happy to meet you.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] It's very exciting.

[1030] It is.

[1031] Yeah, thank you guys.

[1032] You're the fucking best.

[1033] We appreciate you.

[1034] Stay sexy.

[1035] And don't get murdered.

[1036] Goodbye.

[1037] Elvis, do you want to cook?

[1038] This has been an exactly right production.

[1039] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1040] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[1041] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1042] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachey.

[1043] Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

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