Jon Batiste

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[3] Good afternoon, sir.

[4] Oh, how are you?

[5] I'm really good.

[6] Oh, yeah, me too.

[7] This is a very rare occurrence.

[8] We're both doing the intro and the fact check in the same four -hour chunk that we did the interview.

[9] Yes.

[10] Yeah, so I'm riding fucking high off of this one.

[11] Yeah, what a special interview.

[12] Oh, my God.

[13] Everyone should watch his doc American Symphony.

[14] I almost feel like if you're unfamiliar with John at all, watch the doc then listen to this interview because you can't imagine how special and creative this human being is that lives on planet earth with us.

[15] John Batiste.

[16] Oh my freaking God.

[17] Just to set the stage, he was nominated in 2022 for 11 Grammys.

[18] He won five.

[19] He won album of the year.

[20] That same year he won an Academy Award, a BAFTA, a Grammy, and a Golden Globe.

[21] Wait, is he a E -Gar?

[22] No, I was looking at that.

[23] That was going to be one of my questions.

[24] He needs an Emmy and a Tony.

[25] Oh, we'll get him there.

[26] So easy.

[27] Yeah, he's fucking your age, for Christ's sakes.

[28] Oh, bastard.

[29] I hate that part.

[30] That was the only bad.

[31] The only bad thing about John is that he's young.

[32] I think it's okay because he's not human.

[33] That's true.

[34] Yeah.

[35] On his planet where he's from, he's 70.

[36] Yeah.

[37] Oh, that's comforting.

[38] Well, he is a Grammy Award winning musician and television personality.

[39] He's also done so much acting when he even talk about that.

[40] But he was in three seasons of Tremay, and he's been in two Spike Lee movies.

[41] The body of creativity is so dense, and we took a long time.

[42] We did.

[43] Still couldn't get to it.

[44] We went way over.

[45] Fun behind the scenes.

[46] He had a hard out at 1230, and he left it three.

[47] No, 1 .30.

[48] 1 .30?

[49] Yeah, but still, an hour.

[50] Oopsies.

[51] Oopsies.

[52] His albums are World Music Radio.

[53] That's his new album that's out right now.

[54] It's incredible.

[55] You know some of the songs on it, and it's just a beautifully done album.

[56] We Are is the one that got all the nominations, Hollywood Africans, Christmas with John Patiste, social music.

[57] And this documentary that we are so high.

[58] And it's on Netflix.

[59] It's called American Symphony.

[60] And it's a really beautiful and touching, heartbreaking documentary.

[61] Profound, yeah.

[62] Please enjoy John Batiste.

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[64] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[65] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[66] He's an armchair expert.

[67] This is going to depress you What?

[68] He's only six months older than you.

[69] Oh, I already know that.

[70] You knew that?

[71] Yes, I know.

[72] The reason that doesn't depress me is because you're not from this world.

[73] You're not human, yeah, that helps.

[74] Your whole ensemble is amazing.

[75] Thank you.

[76] Oh, my God.

[77] That's so flattering.

[78] I do want to say, I know you probably already just set it outside and it's redundant.

[79] and you're probably so sick of hearing it by now.

[80] But we've had a ton of awesome people in this attic.

[81] But I don't think we've had a level of genius like we'd have today.

[82] You've got to say that to the end.

[83] I had to say it now because it's so true.

[84] This is amazing to see what it looks like here.

[85] Wait, John, have you heard the show before?

[86] Yes.

[87] My wife introduced me to show.

[88] She did.

[89] We listened to David Sedaris.

[90] Ah, sure.

[91] She's a huge fan and got me converted to be a fan of David via this show.

[92] That's so nice.

[93] Yeah, he too is from another galaxy, I think.

[94] The storytelling, this man is able to pull off.

[95] Exactly.

[96] Yes.

[97] The things he gets away with.

[98] Oh, my God.

[99] Right.

[100] It knocks me out.

[101] And I can't believe that he's seeing things so differently than everyone else.

[102] Yes.

[103] He perceives the same situation.

[104] that everybody will be in the same room and seeing, but he's seeing it from another lens, and then is able to communicate that.

[105] Thank you for that.

[106] Oh, I'm so delighted.

[107] He's maybe our most frequent guests.

[108] We've had him like four times or something.

[109] I took him for his first motorcycle ride out front.

[110] He's a very special person we have.

[111] Oh, my gosh.

[112] And the way that y 'all have a rapport makes sense is four times, you said.

[113] Yeah.

[114] Ah, yeah.

[115] Y 'all got a vibe.

[116] Whoa, wait a way.

[117] Yes, loud, yes.

[118] Oh, Lord.

[119] Oh, my God, I love this so much already.

[120] You know, I can't believe that you have created this and have the vision to make space for this and share it with others in the organic way that you have come together and to see that, to understand that vibrational frequency existed between you, and you could connect those dots in the world to create a space for this and manifest it and share it, build community around it.

[121] Yeah.

[122] Huge, huge fan.

[123] And also, there's a DNA of the way you have conversations.

[124] It's kind of lay therapy.

[125] It's accessible.

[126] People connect to the heart and the journey, and it's not promotional.

[127] It's organic.

[128] Thank you.

[129] And there are not many places just when you're on a press, junk it, are you doing stuff like that where you can actually talk and, yeah, be for real.

[130] And breathe.

[131] Come on.

[132] Right?

[133] Yes.

[134] Yes.

[135] Yes.

[136] Yes.

[137] Yes.

[138] Yes.

[139] Listen, I'm going to make some...

[140] So your teeth are so beautiful.

[141] Did you notice that in the top?

[142] The two of you, I want you guys to stand next to each other and just smile.

[143] Yeah.

[144] My teeth are nothing confused.

[145] You got it.

[146] I'm telling you, you got it.

[147] Don't deny it, Monica.

[148] Thank the stars for it.

[149] Monica.

[150] I'm going to make some...

[151] Wow.

[152] Let's do it.

[153] Let's do it.

[154] You've got some teeth.

[155] Oh, my God.

[156] And look at the hue of the brown skin.

[157] I know.

[158] It is as caramel -esque as skin can be, isn't it?

[159] Come on.

[160] Let it shine.

[161] Mighty but powerful.

[162] Oh, mighty powerful.

[163] She's mighty powerful.

[164] Wait, hold on.

[165] Wait, is she mighty and powerful or mighty powerful?

[166] You're not married.

[167] Do you want to get married?

[168] Yeah.

[169] I think so.

[170] Wow.

[171] Yeah.

[172] Okay.

[173] I know this is not supposed to be.

[174] Oh, we do all kinds.

[175] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[176] We started in the driveway.

[177] I didn't know he was up, move.

[178] I say, oh, my God.

[179] Is that all right?

[180] Of course.

[181] It's so clever.

[182] Yeah.

[183] Own it.

[184] You know, we got a lot of stuff we don't own about ourselves.

[185] We met John for five seconds, and now he and I are already coordinated in the same exact agenda for you.

[186] I know.

[187] You guys find me a husband.

[188] I'm happy to have you guys.

[189] You're a once -in -a -lifetime entity.

[190] I mean, you're so special in so many ways.

[191] So what guy will hit the lottery?

[192] That's the question.

[193] Why do you feel like you haven't met that person?

[194] Well, I have so many issues.

[195] Exactly.

[196] Brown kid, Georgia, you know, New Orleans.

[197] And pretty early on, they had some experiences that told me that I was not attractive or worthy.

[198] Can I say even worse?

[199] There was a boy that liked her and she liked the boy.

[200] And the friends were setting them up.

[201] And they said, why don't you ask Monica out?

[202] And he said, I can't.

[203] Her parents work at Dairy Queen.

[204] which is like an Indian stereotype.

[205] They didn't.

[206] They didn't.

[207] One's an engineer, one's a computer programmer, but out.

[208] He's out.

[209] He's afraid to fuck with someone whose parents work at Dairy Queen.

[210] Okay, thank you.

[211] So she learned really quickly.

[212] My ethnicity is going to stand in the way of anyone.

[213] It's going to prevent anyone from loving me, even if they do love me. And now, how do I protect myself from that?

[214] Well, I'm not going to like anyone anymore because I don't want to open myself up to that.

[215] Or I'm only going to like people who definitely can't or won't love me back.

[216] Probably more can't, like very unavailable.

[217] Or the captain of the football team, Ben and Matt Damon, like in the stratosphere, unobtainable.

[218] It's like these extremes, and it creates a scenario where it's hard to find that actual compliment.

[219] Exactly.

[220] But you're getting there now.

[221] Well, I'm trying.

[222] I've been going on some dates.

[223] I've really been forcing myself to do it, and there is this person, and I probably have to cut this because he'll probably listen.

[224] Let him have it.

[225] I'm in this space.

[226] Let's be honest.

[227] Yeah, right?

[228] Let's just lay it all out there.

[229] Open the kimono.

[230] Yeah.

[231] That's right.

[232] He's so nice and he really likes me. And so I am trying hard to not let that be a problem.

[233] Because when boys do like her, it fucks with the whole.

[234] It's like messing up all the programming.

[235] Because for me, if people like me, something's wrong with them.

[236] Yeah, it's really an interesting thing you're saying.

[237] We have so many brilliant women in our lives.

[238] who haven't found that person.

[239] Yeah.

[240] And oftentimes they say the same thing.

[241] If someone loves them and really is just giving them the world, it's difficult.

[242] It's almost like a concession.

[243] Yes.

[244] Please, I know this is supposed to be the other way, but please, just tell me about that.

[245] Because these brilliant women, beautiful in our lives, and they're just not able to find that.

[246] There's a few options under that umbrella.

[247] One is like, they don't see it.

[248] I've witnessed that a bunch of times where like someone's clearly hitting on Monica we walk away and I'm like that dude was in love with you're like you're fucking stupid so there's that version then there's the one she just said which is well if this person likes me there's something wrong with them because I'm unworthy of loving there's something broken in them if they're attracted to me which is the most heartbreaking of all these yeah that's rough but we all have a different side of that same die right so another version of the unworthiness for mine is like well I got a show I put on and I definitely think it works you're going to fall in love with me I have the opposite thing He's like, you're going to fall in love with me, but we all know this is smoking mirrors, and when it clears and you find out who I am, we're fucked.

[249] But it's all the same die of unworthiness, not worth loving, right?

[250] Yeah.

[251] Do you feel that that's an extroverts game where you're creating the show, or is it because you're an introvert and you don't feel comfortable sharing up front in that way?

[252] So you've created this character.

[253] That's a good question.

[254] I created a character at 11 that worked.

[255] So I stuck with it, which was like, I'm punk rock.

[256] I don't give a fuck.

[257] Girls were like, this guy's confident.

[258] I wasn't.

[259] But it worked.

[260] And I'm like, oh, this works.

[261] I'm going to keep at this.

[262] Who knows what the 11 year old is?

[263] He's so far gone.

[264] I don't know what that little boy.

[265] When I look at my fifth grade, there's a sweet little boy like Lincoln in that photo.

[266] And then sixth grade's like, let's go see exploited and get wild.

[267] And then that's just been me now for so long.

[268] But we definitely need you now.

[269] Did you jive with women early?

[270] Have you always been able to chat with gals and get on with them?

[271] What's amazing is I've always had close platonic friends who are women from, I remember in elementary school.

[272] And I always had male friends as well, but I always had at least one close woman friend who was probably the only person I had certain conversations with.

[273] It was like a way for me to also understand the world from another perspective with the guys, we weren't going there.

[274] Yeah, I was going to ask, do you think it was a refuse from masculinity and malness?

[275] It's so funny, you phrase it like that.

[276] I was thinking about that recently and have only just started to be able to articulate that.

[277] Yeah, because you're not safe when you're a boy to say I'm scared.

[278] This person frightens me or I'm nervous about this.

[279] All that stuff, you can't do it.

[280] You can't touch it.

[281] No, you're dead.

[282] Persona non grata.

[283] Right.

[284] You know, I was a kid who really, I didn't talk until I was about 10.

[285] A very quiet, very observant of all the folks around me, big family, come from a very, very colorful city in New Orleans.

[286] Then a jazz dynasty.

[287] It's amazing.

[288] It's also scary because everyone is really putting themselves on stage.

[289] They know themselves.

[290] You're the youngest.

[291] You're the youngest and sisters?

[292] Yes.

[293] Okay.

[294] And I'm the youngest of 30 cousins, all my siblings, all of my uncles and aunts.

[295] At eight years old in a band with your brothers.

[296] Yes.

[297] It was great.

[298] Don't get me wrong.

[299] It just was not the expression that I thought would become my primary mode as a career path.

[300] I never thought I would be a musician until I was well into my teens, almost 20.

[301] Even though you were so firmly on the path to become one, you still didn't identify with that.

[302] Really quick, do you think it's because there wasn't enough available error in the room where you grew up?

[303] You know, it was deep, man. I thought about that.

[304] And it wasn't so much that.

[305] It was more the thing that we were talking about, Monica, as far as...

[306] yourself and if someone's hitting on you, you don't see the situation you're in.

[307] We don't see who we are or where we are in time.

[308] And time is moving.

[309] There's a real momentum.

[310] Things are happening.

[311] Things are falling into place.

[312] Things are shifting.

[313] Decisions are being made.

[314] And I got to a point where I realized the path that I was on.

[315] And it's a matter then where we all face this question, do we accept it or not?

[316] Am I understanding you in the way that sometimes you're waiting for life to happen, but it takes a long time to realize, like, it's happening.

[317] It's happening.

[318] Yeah.

[319] You're waiting for it, but a P .S. It's happening and it's blowing by.

[320] And you got to recognize, like, no, no, it's today.

[321] Today life's happening.

[322] Momentum is.

[323] Not when you graduate.

[324] Not when you get hired for this thing.

[325] Not when you book this gig.

[326] You were born into this, Batiste.

[327] This is who you are.

[328] Some people are blessed enough from day one.

[329] It's set.

[330] Other people, it's already set, but you just have to find it.

[331] All are equal.

[332] But for you, there's a. huge force for whatever reason.

[333] They're mammoth mechanics behind this.

[334] And you have to just decide if you want to accept that or not.

[335] Yeah.

[336] When did you accept it?

[337] I started to really see music as a profession when I was in my teens, 17, 18, 19, but I didn't really accept it until I was 24, 25.

[338] Can I guess at one of the things that might have solidified that?

[339] Oh, my goodness.

[340] I just want to say, I love this.

[341] Oh, me too, me too.

[342] You love it.

[343] You're a bad cat.

[344] You know when the who's gather on the Christmas tree and they celebrate Christmas anyways, even though there were no presents and his heart grew three times?

[345] Like, you're making my heart three X. Because I think the most moving thing that you've done for me is stay human.

[346] And you're going out in the real world.

[347] And it's an antidote to the plug in and drop -in and drop -out society we live in.

[348] And you're going out and you're actually getting to look into the faces of the people whose emotions and mood you are adjusting with your output.

[349] And as an interesting, I'm introvert, wow, you haven't been doing that comedically or through overt gab like I was doing.

[350] So I have to imagine when you're moving through the real world with your band on a subway, on a corner in New York, and you are orchestrating human emotions, I have to imagine enough of that.

[351] And you go, oh, yeah, I got a thing I can do.

[352] It's so glaring.

[353] Yeah, I bet.

[354] It's clarion.

[355] It hits you.

[356] It's like, oh, wow.

[357] And the introvert aspect of things and not really being comfortable with that.

[358] that we started to call that out and say, we have to get our rejection in today.

[359] We have to throw ourselves in the water.

[360] Let's get rejected today.

[361] Whether it's saying hello to somebody on the subway, eventually that turns into play a ballot for this person who looks lonely on the subway.

[362] And it becomes this way of shedding this self -consciousness and also realizing, oh, wow, I have something that I can do that is creating.

[363] creating community and it's tapping into all of these lineages and these major forces and sound and culture and it's connecting to something that in this time people really really need and i felt that it was so purpose driven that's when everything changed for me you really nailed it the name stay human came to me as the band name as the mantra the idea of what we were doing calling it social music and understand it, wow, this is something else.

[364] Also, I don't want to get too saccharine or sentimental about music, but if there were a day to do it, it would be today.

[365] So, as a comedian, I go do stand -up at Largo.

[366] It's community, and it's wonderful.

[367] They're my folks.

[368] They like this kind of comedy.

[369] It's heavenly.

[370] I went and did it in Vegas.

[371] It's miserable.

[372] You got a guy from Texas with a cowboy hat next to a Jewish fellow from New York, next to a guy from Alaska who just lost $12 ,000.

[373] They're all looking at you're like, we're not in the same group.

[374] You can't cut through that.

[375] It's almost impossible.

[376] But music, this is where I would say it's the ultimate superpower because you could drop down anywhere.

[377] You could even throw an alien in the mix.

[378] And you will articulate what can't be articulated.

[379] It's the only thing we can all agree on these days.

[380] Yes, you could put the left and the right in a room.

[381] And if you play Coltrane's Alabama, people are going to cry.

[382] And even on the most basic level, we can all agree that we're hearing sound together.

[383] Yes.

[384] We can't even get to a point in the major power centers of this country and the planet, really, where half of one side can agree with half of the other side that something is happening.

[385] Yeah, that's really true.

[386] And you can be looking at the same thing, feeling the same thing.

[387] But music, it has this power that if you can get people to agree on the fact that we're hearing and experiencing something together.

[388] At the same time, what you can attach to that experience and what can be carried from that experience to all of these different people's lives, which then ultimately affects the whole, is so profound.

[389] That's what Stay Human became a vehicle of, and we would play everywhere.

[390] We started playing the Subways just for fun and creating these experiences, but we played on military bases.

[391] We've played for royalty.

[392] We've played in situations where our lives were in danger and we literally changed the energy in the room so that people didn't know we were shifting their intention.

[393] Yeah, you hijacked the whole nervous system.

[394] Yep.

[395] And the anxiety goes away.

[396] All the racket inside goes away.

[397] It's so magical.

[398] It's impossible.

[399] It can't be explained.

[400] This is a bizarre thing we do as primates.

[401] One of the many monkeys on planet Earth made all these instruments and they're plugging into other people through.

[402] It's really wild.

[403] Well, you say in the doc, which I love, that music is inevitable.

[404] That's such a beautiful way of putting it.

[405] It was always coming.

[406] It was always here.

[407] It's in the fabric of the universe.

[408] Yes, yes.

[409] It's incredible.

[410] That's so deep that one of us created these instruments at some point.

[411] What drove that?

[412] And think about how long ago that came into being, that that was a feeling that we need to spend the time to do this.

[413] And then so many traditions and rituals and ways of experience.

[414] expressing that have existed.

[415] And then maybe in the last millennia, it's become something that is a infrastructure in a business and it's commercialized and, you know, you put it on t -shirts and you tell a concert ticket.

[416] But for millennia before that, many thousands of years, it's been something way, way deeper and inevitable reality in the realm of the invisible.

[417] That is what I want to bridge back to because right now, that's what we need.

[418] in our traditions of music more than ever is how do we bridge back to that early intention of the music well what's great i don't say this to insult music but it serves absolutely no purpose there's no purpose to it you do not need it for survival of all these things we needed tools we figured that out even drawing to some degree is a form of communication to inform another generation this is how you stab the fucking ox music has no purpose other than to be in harmony with one another.

[419] Except I feel like the original beat is your heartbeat.

[420] That's like how you know your living is through a sound.

[421] It's the first sign of life.

[422] And so perhaps that's why we're so wired.

[423] Yeah, you lay your head on someone's chest and you can hear their heart and you love them and you think, oh my God, that's the thing that's keeping them here.

[424] Oh, it's proven.

[425] I've studied this in a great detail because of the way that we're born and 75 % of our body as infants, is water.

[426] And the way that that sound carries the heartbeat of the mother or the lullaby that is sung in your ear when you're a child.

[427] You're right, you're born into rhythm.

[428] You spend your first nine months being formed.

[429] It's very loud in there.

[430] Oh, my goodness.

[431] It's a symphony.

[432] Yeah.

[433] When the music becomes something that is more entertainment -based, we lose the thread of that.

[434] And as we lose more and more of it, you have these conversations.

[435] And it doesn't just affect the creative arts.

[436] It affects our investment in engineering, our investment in science.

[437] I believe that these kinds of intangible art forms and mediums can solve our issues.

[438] No, we have to sit down and we have to talk about policy.

[439] And we have to have this table full of people who are not artistic or not creative in this way, who aren't scientific, who aren't envisioning things that don't exist.

[440] Policy is great.

[441] We should address them.

[442] We should vote and all that.

[443] but sitting at the table to discuss solutions for humanity and removing music and art and science.

[444] It's unbelievable.

[445] Yeah.

[446] I was thinking while researching you went to the New Orleans Creative.

[447] Yes, yes.

[448] What was it called?

[449] New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts.

[450] Noka.

[451] Noka.

[452] Shout out.

[453] Oh, Noka.

[454] Shout out, baby.

[455] 504, yeah.

[456] We have interviewed so many people that have attended public creative arts.

[457] programs.

[458] Yeah, again, it's one of those things you could think is an extraneous expense or it's not vital.

[459] People need to learn to add more or whatever.

[460] But in anordinate amount of people we end up chatting with are the products of those things.

[461] Yes.

[462] I do want to step out of the ethereal for half a second and talk about Juilliard.

[463] Oh, yeah.

[464] Because for the outsider, for Monica, like, what do you think of Monica when you think of Juilliard?

[465] I mean, I don't know anything about it, but I picture like this picturesque campus.

[466] Everyone walking around is creative and singing and drawing.

[467] And I assume it feels wonderful to be there.

[468] However, I've heard enough stories about Juilliard to know that I don't think that's true.

[469] My thought of it is much more like in Rocky Four when the Russian is being trained by the government.

[470] He's got all these high -tech machines.

[471] And it's so dialed and everyone's trying so hard.

[472] And like having read the 10 ,000 hours Malcolm Gladwell thing, knowing the fucking repetition, I think more of whiplash.

[473] Think of like this pressure cooker, a pursuit of perfection that's relentless and daunting.

[474] And then the people that make it have to be so specific.

[475] I want to know about that.

[476] Like, is there a common thread?

[477] Like, the amount of time y 'all spent by yourselves in a room is interesting.

[478] It's got to be a freak show in a spectacular way.

[479] 1%, sometimes less is accepted in a year from all across the world.

[480] So with all respect, I say this.

[481] if you get into Julia, you had to be a weirdo.

[482] When I say weirdo, I mean, so counterculture.

[483] Who's going to sit in a room from maybe eight years old or before until 17 with a cello, perfecting bow strokes, trying to figure out how to make this tuning or this piece that's impossible to play that no one on the block understands, how to make this work, or how to just do the perfect plie and tandoo and literally become so competitive with this that it's what you're thinking about maybe every waking hour of your life for your adolescents.

[484] I feel like OCD is a prerequisite.

[485] Beyond.

[486] Or you're just a natural.

[487] You're a phenom.

[488] Do those exist?

[489] You seem to be one, but do they exist?

[490] I believe that there's more people who are phenomenal now because of many factors, the information age, there's so much.

[491] Definitely, they exist.

[492] I think that Juilliard is a place where people go and find community with other weirdos.

[493] And I think that that's a beautiful thing.

[494] Yeah.

[495] I just know this from my uncle.

[496] My uncle went to Juilliard, played trumpet.

[497] He had outgrown the trumpet instructor in his town.

[498] Then they would go to downtown Detroit.

[499] Then they had to drive to Ohio.

[500] Eventually, he outgrew everyone in a three -state area.

[501] And they had to drive to Pennsylvania.

[502] You know, like you're getting more and more isolated in a sense.

[503] And then you get to this place finally.

[504] And everyone else has had the same bonkers experience on planet Earth.

[505] So in some way, I would imagine you're seeing like -minded people for the first time.

[506] Yes.

[507] And that could either be really bonding or also you're very aware, too, of the competition, which you just mentioned.

[508] So that could also be a roadblock.

[509] So I'm wondering, what is the vibe between the student body?

[510] You know, it's many different eras of Juilliard.

[511] There's the era of competitive razor blades in the piano.

[512] for the competition.

[513] You know, that kind of thing, right?

[514] Then there's this era, which is the recent era.

[515] And I really applaud the generation that's coming up now, living through COVID in the lockdown.

[516] Although that's a musician's dream.

[517] You guys are already in your bedroom the whole fucking summer.

[518] But think about your college years, though?

[519] Oh, that sucks.

[520] It's the worst.

[521] The most anti -social.

[522] You can't perform for people.

[523] There's no work.

[524] The mental fortitude that they have to stay focus on the craft, to live through that, to come out of that.

[525] there's a more communal feeling now.

[526] And there was competitiveness for reasons that weren't productive when I was there.

[527] As much as I learned, you know, I built a band there.

[528] Stay human came from friends that I met at school and friends that I still have today.

[529] And there's a lot of great mentors that I had in moments that were key for me, but also had moments where it was like, okay, there's competition from people who are supposed to be helping me. There's interference and a lack of understanding of my approach to art, which doesn't match the pedagogy, maybe doesn't match what is considered to be the right way.

[530] Yeah, I was going to say, were you a threat to tradition?

[531] That's what it would be perceived as, but as I grow, I see it more as I'm expanding the tradition.

[532] Well, now they're very happy.

[533] I always believed that.

[534] Yeah.

[535] As much as I felt I was going against the grain, I always believed it was for a greater purpose, and it would be something that would make space for a lot more people.

[536] Could we assume that they wanted to insist that you got the perfect classical foundation and then you were free to fly away and create beyond that?

[537] Like, let's say Picasso, you got to learn first to draw realism before you can do cubism.

[538] But was that maybe their premise, if we're being generous?

[539] It was even more of a lack of understanding of my idiosyncrasies and the way that I was as a human being, first off, I was sent within my first year to a psychiatrist.

[540] You mentioned that in the dock and I was like, is that true or is that just kind of like a throwaway?

[541] They were worried about your mental health.

[542] Yes.

[543] They were like, something is wrong with him or he's on some substance.

[544] Sure.

[545] What do you think you were doing that made them think of that?

[546] Yeah, because you're amidst a lot of people who I would assume are similar to you.

[547] And you strike me as very sane.

[548] Yeah, exactly.

[549] I feel like it's very stiff in environments of the art. most of the time.

[550] And people feel self -conscious and nervous.

[551] And when I was 17, this is the age of me developing my character, that character that allowed for me to move to the world and have armor.

[552] Yeah.

[553] And that character is something that was a protective mechanism and also very, very much a flamboyant, outward expression of my joy and exuberance for music and life and wanting to share that with other people, wanting to free other people.

[554] Like, why are you sitting there stiff.

[555] And it also was just a lack of over reverence for things that people said you're supposed to really buy into and look at as law.

[556] Why is that?

[557] Hmm.

[558] I mean, I love John Coltrane, but I would be in that age and I would say, huh, what about John Coltrane could be better?

[559] Oh, dear.

[560] What about this?

[561] That's what they said.

[562] What could have been different if he was here today?

[563] Or what about Beethoven could be better.

[564] Why is that the gold standard?

[565] This is a great point.

[566] And I would imagine it pertains way more to Juilliard than any other kind of musical tradition, which is, in a weird way, you're expected to accept that the greatest have already been here, that you're in the shadow of all these people, they're on another plane, and the best you could ever do is match them.

[567] The best.

[568] It can't be done, can't be replicated, and you should just spend all your time trying to just reach the level where at least you can express what they had expressed.

[569] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[570] It's like an arrested art. in a weird way, which is counterintuitive.

[571] Yeah, and it's not what the world needs.

[572] I have so many huge ambitions.

[573] I feel like I'm just getting started in so many ways.

[574] And the expression of the art was like the beginning of me understanding how big the world was, how much stuff was possible, how much we could actually do.

[575] Yeah.

[576] You knew that so young.

[577] That's so impressive.

[578] If someone told me to go to the psychiatrist when I was 17 or something, I would be like, something's wrong with me. Did you ever feel like that?

[579] Or you were like, no, they're wrong.

[580] Oh, yeah, huge anxiety, huge levels of depression, needing a lot of moral support from friends and family.

[581] That whole first year was just a doozy, baby.

[582] Shut out.

[583] I fainted in the subway.

[584] I got pneumonia the first couple weeks.

[585] I was in New York.

[586] I was in hospital alone.

[587] No family in New York.

[588] I discovered I had a distant cousin, my cousin, Lisa, and then that's how we got connected because I was in hospital.

[589] Right.

[590] From there, I go to school, get sent to the psych office, have a consult.

[591] Then he writes a letter to the dean.

[592] When the dean gets this letter, I probably can find this letter now, but gets a letter saying, you are mistaken about this young man. In fact, I believe I was in the presence.

[593] This is his word.

[594] He said some very going things.

[595] I want to kiss him on the lips.

[596] And so things like that, moments like, oh, wow, this person sees something in me. I was able to achieve this small goal.

[597] Oh, I have these friends or family that are helping me to move through this period.

[598] I moved to California at 20.

[599] I had so many friends in Detroit, and then I land in Santa Barbara.

[600] The shit I was doing in Detroit was not working there.

[601] I was so lonely, and I had a year where I was questioning my sanity a lot.

[602] Truly nervous, like, are we going to have a breakdown?

[603] Like, am I crazy?

[604] And this is my arrogant side.

[605] I'm like, do smart people go crazy?

[606] I was trying to explain why I'm crazy.

[607] It was linked to the loneliness and trying to figure out where I'm going in the world.

[608] But I was very scared I was losing my mind for it.

[609] a year and a half.

[610] Did you have those fears?

[611] Yes.

[612] And I want to ask you, too, because you've found a way to not be pigeonholed.

[613] You force people to reassess how they view you.

[614] That's a huge, huge element to it.

[615] First, you think you're crazy.

[616] You think that the way that you're moving through the world and the things that you expect for yourself are just outsized or maybe everybody else is crazy, which is even worse.

[617] Yeah, exactly.

[618] All eight billion, y 'all, crazy.

[619] I'm the only same one.

[620] That's a scary world of being.

[621] So you get past that.

[622] Then that's the first entree into maybe achieving something.

[623] So then you achieve something.

[624] And then people want you to do that thing.

[625] Then you say, I'm somewhere else now.

[626] I want to do something else.

[627] And you do that next step.

[628] And really quick, because I don't ask you.

[629] Yes, as of you.

[630] And I want to ask you, I feel like one of the hurdles of those changes is some interesting pull to not seem ungrateful.

[631] Exactly.

[632] If you liked me in comedies and then I go, well, I'm going to take two years off so I can write and direct something, you do feel a bit ungrateful for the folks who supported you doing the original thing you wanted to do.

[633] Yes, yes.

[634] And you're truly so grateful for them.

[635] But like, if I do something for a while, I'm like, okay, we did that.

[636] Now what are we going to do?

[637] There's a short ass ride.

[638] I want to do all the things.

[639] So what's next on the docket?

[640] But it feels ungrateful.

[641] It really does.

[642] I'm really big on.

[643] being very self -aware and having gratefulness and humility, guide everything, because if you stop seeing yourself, stop being yourself.

[644] And then you can't create the thing that's the most resonant that only you can create.

[645] So I am aware of that for many reasons as a value, but I also feel like that can limit you like crazy.

[646] That could make you be like, well, I'm going to just do this because this is my place.

[647] I'm going to stay in my place.

[648] And this where society wants me to be and I can't do it.

[649] It repels me. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[650] What's up guys?

[651] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[652] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation and I don't mean just friends.

[653] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the goes on.

[654] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[655] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[656] We've all been there.

[657] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[658] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[659] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

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[661] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

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[663] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[664] Prime members can listen early and add free, on Amazon Music.

[665] Well, listen, when you just said, I haven't done what I'm going to do yet, I believe that deeply because I think so many artists, they love an art, and then they try to do their version of it.

[666] And what I see with you, the eclectic nature of what you're doing, world radio.

[667] I'm going to do this genre.

[668] I'm going to do this genre, your symphony.

[669] I'm going to have indigenous stuff.

[670] Whereas most people only have kind of the bandwidth to commit to like, I want to be the Beatles.

[671] Let's see what my version of it is.

[672] You're going, I want to be the Beatles.

[673] I also want to be Engelbert Humperdink.

[674] I also want to be so and so.

[675] And so you're in my mind still in the phase where you're doing almost everybody.

[676] And even though you are, you have such a fingerprint on everything, we still haven't seen, I don't think yet, you weave it into this whole other thing that someone will try.

[677] Yes.

[678] Right?

[679] Like you're still knocking off all these genres in this incredibly interesting way.

[680] But I think you're tasting everything at the all you can eat bar.

[681] And then you're like, now I'm going to go make this dish.

[682] And we're not even there Yeah.

[683] Did he nail it?

[684] Go ahead, that.

[685] Go ahead, that.

[686] Yeah.

[687] Do you relate to that assessment?

[688] I love that.

[689] And I relate to that.

[690] And it's so true, I feel like the latest bloomer.

[691] It is so true to my experience and how I'm perceiving my journey.

[692] You're still like perfecting your shit.

[693] Yes.

[694] It's crazy from the outside, though, because it's already better and a true gift in a way that no one else is doing and you're saying you just started.

[695] It's so hard for a regular human to wrap their brain around.

[696] But I get it.

[697] I think that's the difference between people who are just really great at something and then a genius level.

[698] Where you're going to actually create an entirely new thing.

[699] But even like we are, the notion that you had a classical composition on there.

[700] You did that.

[701] Okay, great.

[702] I don't know what you took from that.

[703] I don't think that was the finished product.

[704] I think you were like, okay, that's a piece.

[705] I'm going to try this thing.

[706] I'm going to try this thing.

[707] And then somehow that's going to be what comes out.

[708] Eventually, who knows what the timeline is.

[709] You're casting lines out there.

[710] This is what came back.

[711] Oh, wow.

[712] Now I understand this a little bit through doing it.

[713] I'm huge on the experiential learning and really just like I was talking about getting our rejection in throwing ourselves in the water.

[714] Find the way to do the thing and do the thing with.

[715] stakes put skin in the game and then learn from that that's the best for me process okay so i'm thinking out loud now because we have all of our genres pretty well defined yes for better and worse and there's no new instruments there's no new notes there's no new tempo all the building blocks are there i think what's new is the human experiences continuing to evolve that you and i two men in modern public stage will say we had to have female friends because we didn't feel like the whole side of ourselves was being experienced without them.

[716] That's a new development.

[717] Coltrane's not saying that in an interview and that's why he's shooting dope as well.

[718] So the new thing that's out there for you to grab is weirdly the evolution that we're experiencing just as a species.

[719] Yes.

[720] Music is life is music is life.

[721] And it's converged.

[722] And that's the thing that I was getting at.

[723] When I think about the internet age and the information age, the convergence of all this experience that's accelerated the human experience.

[724] So now we have all these different conversations and we're processing them at a way that's exponential.

[725] Yes.

[726] But then changes the way that we relate to each other and the things we make.

[727] And then now what are we going to make that is of the essence of this time?

[728] Musically, it's going to express all these values and all of this synthesis.

[729] All of this stuff, it's really just found a way to be one and connect to, you know, the past, of course, but it's really creating the future that we're doing right now.

[730] Yeah, it's almost like we've just been scattergun blasted with all these things that seemingly don't have a thread connecting them.

[731] I think of like the first time you go to Disneyland or World, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's so much stuff.

[732] What's that right?

[733] That's about pirates.

[734] That's about nymphs that are floating around.

[735] That's about it's a small world.

[736] And it's so overwhelming.

[737] I think that's the stage we're at right now with all of this crazy new technology and information we're getting.

[738] We're at the stage where like we just walked into Disney World.

[739] We're like, my lord, this is hard.

[740] But over time, you're like, oh, yeah, it's organized this way.

[741] You can chill and kind of make sense of it.

[742] But I think we're at that stage where someone needs to help us make sense of all this or figure out what is the through line of all this.

[743] That's right.

[744] It's so deeply tied to the real spiritual and moral awakening that we're yearning for.

[745] Connecting the dots on all of this disparate information and experience is going to show us the oneness of all of us.

[746] And I think music's going to play such a crucial role in the way that physicists no longer speak in English, right?

[747] As soon as they get to a level of physics, now math has to speak for them.

[748] Right.

[749] And when they're telling you about the theory of relativity, they're doing their best to make metaphors out of the math.

[750] But the math's actually what it says it.

[751] And so I think what we're trying to find and express and latch on to, it's not going to exist in words.

[752] It's going to exist in math.

[753] And then it's going to exist in music, which is this thing that is really a magic trick.

[754] It's so crazy because music has to now find its new meaning in society.

[755] The expression of those things, the things that can't even be put into words, this sort of language of the invisible realm and the unspoken truths that we're now in need of articulating so that we can move to the next phase, music needs to shift its purpose so it can serve that ultimate vision.

[756] You have a great quote I wrote down.

[757] Jazz is really a term that doesn't encompass what it's pointing at.

[758] The intellectual breadth of black geniuses who were basically denied.

[759] the credential of being a genius in society because of their skin tone.

[760] We always talk about improvisation and it really is one of the only forms of music that exemplifies the American experiment, putting all these different cultures into one country and coexisting and trying to create beautiful music together.

[761] That's that.

[762] Yes.

[763] I got to say there were many moments in the doc that I was really jealous of yes.

[764] The doc, American symphony.

[765] Kristen said in the middle of it, she goes, this is almost too devastating to watch.

[766] But in the most complimentary way.

[767] But in the way that life is devastating and beautiful and you have to keep going.

[768] It's incredible.

[769] She wasn't referring to the Sulaka of it all.

[770] That's not what she was saying was devastating.

[771] What was devastating is this magic that exists that so few people can access, it's so kind of rare in our life.

[772] You seem to be, you and Sue Lika, seemed to be living inside of the bubble of the magic.

[773] I had so much envy watching it for many reasons, but one of them being you, seem to live in this just endless bubble of creativity and expression, which is so beautiful.

[774] But with stakes, as you just said earlier, I think that's part of perhaps why there's stakes in both of your lives.

[775] But even her response, so for people that don't know, your wife had leukemia was in remission for five years.

[776] The timing of this is in.

[777] 10, right?

[778] 10.

[779] Oh, I'm so sorry.

[780] So she was in remission for 10 years.

[781] Also, it's so cute.

[782] You guys met at Bandcamp.

[783] I know.

[784] It's so cute.

[785] That was Monica's first.

[786] favorite part band camp.

[787] Yeah, I was like, do you know they met it band camp?

[788] But she's in remission for 10 years.

[789] And then literally the moment, if we fast forwarded through it, it's like Juilliard, then it's stay human, it's Netherlands teaching, it's starting to perform live.

[790] It's a couple albums.

[791] It's becoming the band leader and composer for The Tonight Show with Stephen Colbert.

[792] This whole thing leads up to your album, which gets nominated for eight Grammys.

[793] 11.

[794] Well, three for soul, eight four.

[795] We are.

[796] You're on a campaign for the Grammys.

[797] You're also composing your first symphony to be at Carnegie Hall and the leukemia returns.

[798] I mean, the evilness of the universe of the timing is cruel and unique and cosmic and life.

[799] And no wonder your body started speaking back to you.

[800] Like I'm watching you try to uphold this schedule of going to work on the symphony, then do some press for the Grammys, then fly to the Grammys, then see her in the hospital and do this, then FaceTime with her.

[801] And I'm like, this is too much for a human to handle.

[802] And he mentally is going to keep doing it, but things are going to start cracking as they do.

[803] Yes.

[804] Life is all one.

[805] That's the big lesson that I've started the process.

[806] I don't even want to say I learned it.

[807] You just have to keep re -addressing it.

[808] All of it can change and everything is fair game all the time.

[809] just like the possibilities of our imagination and things that we can change to make the world better or relationships that we can invest in and all the things that we can do to make our environment be beautiful and magical, it can all fall apart.

[810] Did you ever in your mind when you were feeling low and dark, did you ever feel like her coming out of her mission was your punishment to flying too close to the sun?

[811] Of course.

[812] It's a natural thought to feel that one is the cause and effect.

[813] Yeah, like, God gave me all this, and it's a little too much.

[814] I don't deserve this.

[815] No one does.

[816] No one gets 11 fucking that's preposterous.

[817] But see, you can't hold on to that belief.

[818] That's toxic.

[819] That's like when you don't think that you're beautiful.

[820] Yeah.

[821] No, it's the same kind of things.

[822] We don't see ourselves.

[823] We deserve all of it.

[824] All of it.

[825] But do you not have, I have the voice.

[826] Monica has it too.

[827] We relate a lot to this.

[828] great example she's long outgrown auditioning for commercials she's building the house across street from us she's past that but she had such a hard time letting go of those auditions because she thought if i stopped doing that stuff this will get taken from me like the world is a give and take it's like if you're making deals yeah you're making deals all the time with the universe yeah yeah like okay if you show your ungrateful here then the other thing will go away I used to have a really big obsession with if good things happen, something bad will happen.

[829] Right.

[830] Like there's a homeostasis.

[831] Which is very wrong.

[832] I think that's what you're saying is like that's something to fix.

[833] But I would have fallen into that personally.

[834] One thing that dispels that myth, and that's not the same thing as saying the energy you put out in some form doesn't come back to you, theory or relativity.

[835] But if you prioritize differently, if you're so focused on forward -most, you.

[836] emotion, momentum, healing.

[837] If you're so focused on being a vessel and being the voice, the tip of the spear, if you're so focused on that, these other thoughts become trivial.

[838] It's like it falls away.

[839] You're going too fast.

[840] There's too much fire around just burns off.

[841] Because these bodies, man, if you're giving it your all, you only have time for one thing.

[842] And then the key is if you have many things going on, how do I integrate all of it so that it's all still serving that one thing?

[843] Would you agree?

[844] You have to become a master of compartments.

[845] Yeah, I was wondering that.

[846] And shifting, now we're doing this.

[847] Now we're doing this.

[848] Now we're doing that.

[849] I said in my mind that I was compartmentalizing until Sulica, my wife, she's a sage.

[850] And she said to me, no, John, you're integrating.

[851] You've found some sort of wild harmony.

[852] It's unorthodox harmonic symbiosis.

[853] You figured out how to do this.

[854] Well, it's real syncopation, actually.

[855] No, no, that's not in this beat.

[856] Wait, no, it is.

[857] Like it or not.

[858] It is.

[859] There's some divine logic to it, and I believe that.

[860] That's a hard one.

[861] That's why I can't say I fully learned that you have to really invest in it every step of the way.

[862] Okay, so I had a lot of envy.

[863] I have to earmark one other thing I want to tell you I was very envious up.

[864] But one thing I was not envious up, and this was really consuming me while I watched it.

[865] You spend so much time in the hospital with her.

[866] By the way, I didn't know the outcome while I was watching.

[867] I was terrified.

[868] I thought this was going to have a heartbreaking ending.

[869] We didn't know the outcome while filming.

[870] That's crazy.

[871] Right.

[872] And there's some moments on the second trip to the hospital after the bone transfusion.

[873] I'm looking at her.

[874] And if I were you, I feel like the thing I'd be wrestling with is, does she need me to be endlessly hopeful right now?

[875] or does she want me to summarize and give closure to this beautiful experience we had?

[876] Because I'll do either, but I just don't know which one to do.

[877] I could sit here and tell you, baby, whatever you got to do, if you got to let go, I want you to know, this was a miracle.

[878] And this is a fucking victory.

[879] This life we had, I wouldn't know what to do.

[880] And I guess it's a male thing.

[881] I guess it's an impulse to fix something.

[882] But were you at all wrestling with like what she needs?

[883] If she wasn't such a superstar, I would be wrestling with it more.

[884] Naturally, I wrestled with what to say in any given moment over eight months of not knowing, are we going to be here together?

[885] How do you know what to say ever?

[886] Yeah, exactly.

[887] How do you know what to do ever?

[888] But there's a pressure on people who are going through illness to suffer well, and she's shouldered that in the most authentic way possible, that it's a beacon for how.

[889] to be a caregiver, how to be with her.

[890] It becomes like, oh, she is so authentically embracing this situation that it instructs me. And I'll see her.

[891] And sometimes it's a time to cry.

[892] It's better if you don't say anything.

[893] It's better if we just kind of sit with the weight of the reality.

[894] Yeah.

[895] Other times, I know that I need a word from you and I'm giving you the cue.

[896] And if you're attentive to that cue, you'll know what to say.

[897] Because it's It's not even about trying to be some sort of wise person who's encapsulating it all.

[898] It's just about being there.

[899] Oh, it's a hard place to be.

[900] Just be there.

[901] Yeah.

[902] That's the hardest thing.

[903] Well, she's a fucking gangster.

[904] She has a role on this planet to show us how to live under duress with grace.

[905] She really is the person.

[906] And she has such a way of expressing.

[907] and creating art through that.

[908] That is another layer.

[909] Like it would be one thing if it was just her ability to be an example of this aspect of the human experience and how to be in community in that, how to be alone in that, how to process that.

[910] But then to create art. Well, she's sitting in there.

[911] She can barely keep her eyes open.

[912] She's making these paintings that are so beautiful that I can't do on my healthiest day.

[913] Yeah, it's not normal.

[914] And as our family continues to grow, I'm so grateful for this chronicle, having this chapter documented, and of course of us making it to this point on the other side of it.

[915] When you met her and she was playing stand -up bass, to me, I'd be horny as fuck because that's such a, like, you picked the stand -up bass.

[916] Is that part of the appeal?

[917] Was the instrument she played?

[918] Like, what are you doing over there in the stand -up face?

[919] You know, it's like an immediate cue of a certain type of personality.

[920] Yes, it's such a good clue.

[921] Oh, she'll do anything she wants to do.

[922] Yeah, oh, that's you?

[923] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[924] It lays out a lot for you.

[925] Of course, her first impression of me, because you got to remember this time, I'm like 14, I'm still like weird -ish.

[926] Sure.

[927] Quiet.

[928] Yeah.

[929] Let's be very honest, John.

[930] Because you're so successful, it's all working.

[931] But I meet you at 7 -Eleven and you're penning this.

[932] I might have a different.

[933] I'm like, oh, this guy's hanging on by a thread.

[934] What's going on?

[935] Outside 7 -Eleven screaming, yes, Lord.

[936] Yeah.

[937] Who is he?

[938] What's going on the ride?

[939] I think, man, look, that was the other thing.

[940] She could see nine times out of ten.

[941] People can't see what you're giving them up front.

[942] Oh, that's you.

[943] They can't perceive the layers of.

[944] of a person.

[945] Or look through all this stuff.

[946] Well, she saw your soul.

[947] Oh, yeah.

[948] Quick.

[949] And that was at first like, oh, this is disconcerting.

[950] I don't know if I'm comfortable with it.

[951] I feel very naked.

[952] You or her?

[953] Oh, me. Okay.

[954] She had this epiphany moment when we reconnected.

[955] She was at Juilliard for like her last year of high school.

[956] She didn't even graduate from high school, but she was there for the pre -colle.

[957] Of course she didn't.

[958] And I was at Julia, the first.

[959] year.

[960] So, like, we're a year apart.

[961] And she's in the subway with our friend Michelle.

[962] Michelle recounts the story.

[963] And so, like, remember, she's like, that's John Batiste.

[964] And I was wearing headphones doing some weird dance in the subway.

[965] I didn't see her.

[966] I didn't see anything.

[967] You're in the bubble.

[968] This was, like, period of time, I always wore headphones.

[969] I'm always in some world.

[970] And she goes, oh, that's John Batiste from the summer band cap.

[971] I'm going to marry him one day.

[972] Come on.

[973] Like, that's what I mean.

[974] She has a...

[975] She's connected in a different way.

[976] She has this kind of way of connecting with what's happening, but it's like premonitions.

[977] It's not an obvious thing to say that at that point in time, we don't have like years of history.

[978] We don't really even know each other like that.

[979] Can I also say I think you're an intimidating person to fall in love with?

[980] I said this out loud while I was watching the documentary.

[981] I said he's on such a different planet in a beautiful and wonderful way that if I loved you and was interested in you, I would be jealous of that force in your life, and I would feel perhaps that I couldn't ever fully connect with you.

[982] Wow.

[983] It's an intimidating level of creativity.

[984] You have given yourself to it.

[985] The wind came in, you're like, blow me away.

[986] And you have been blowing around.

[987] And I think it takes a very confident person to love you and to think that they'll have a role in that.

[988] I think a lot of people before her thought that.

[989] And not even people who I've had relationships with, but people who I could tell they were on the periphery and intrigued and to think, man, could I be in a relationship with John?

[990] And they ultimately decided no. Yeah, yeah.

[991] And I can see that now because they see our relationship.

[992] And they're like, oh, I didn't even know that this was possible.

[993] When they see you in Slaika.

[994] Yes, it's really interesting.

[995] Like, some of them are my friends.

[996] Sure.

[997] And it's like, I didn't know that these pieces could fit.

[998] Because you already had a love.

[999] You're already married to something so profound.

[1000] Yes.

[1001] How could you possibly make room for another?

[1002] And I didn't even know that for a while.

[1003] Because I was so deep in, I didn't realize that I was being perceived like that by potential suitors.

[1004] Yeah, yeah.

[1005] I'm thinking that as a straight dude watching it.

[1006] I'm like, this guy scares me. I'm afraid to love him.

[1007] I was really thinking that.

[1008] I'm afraid to fall in love with him.

[1009] of Suleka, too.

[1010] Yeah, yeah.

[1011] I'm like, I don't know.

[1012] You guys are such an amazing pair.

[1013] Can I be a part of that creativity?

[1014] She's a force and a polymath.

[1015] It's unbelievable.

[1016] She absorbs a medium and then just jumps right in.

[1017] You know, we met.

[1018] She's playing the bass.

[1019] She's written books.

[1020] Best sellers.

[1021] Exactly.

[1022] And now this painting obsession that's incredibly productive while she's in the hospital.

[1023] If she didn't have that relationship with her, craft.

[1024] It couldn't have connected.

[1025] When I'm speaking with Kristen and thinking about you guys, I wanted to ask immediately just hit me. It's like, oh, wow, you guys do this public relationship so well in our beloved.

[1026] So far.

[1027] But no, really?

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] For us, this is our first experience and it's a lot.

[1030] I bet.

[1031] In a beautiful way, but it's very, very, very exposing.

[1032] Oh, something about that vulnerability begets vulnerability.

[1033] It begets expectation.

[1034] And we have really, really felt that.

[1035] Like it's unreal, the kind of response to us as a relationship.

[1036] This is a great, great, great avenue because you actually touch on it in the dock while you're making it, which is this fame thing is a really peculiar thing.

[1037] And you seem to have a sense that it is minimally corruptive.

[1038] It'll change you.

[1039] What's funny is I think I'm ahead of it, as I'm sure you think you're ahead of it.

[1040] But then I'm also smart enough to know like, well, there's no way I'm ahead of it.

[1041] Right.

[1042] I might be doing hopefully the best version of it.

[1043] But to be arrogant enough to think that it hasn't affected me or changed me is probably insane.

[1044] Even though I don't think it has, but clearly it has.

[1045] It has to.

[1046] It's too much.

[1047] It's too powerful and abnormal and unique.

[1048] And so now you add a relationship into that.

[1049] And then that becomes a third member of the relationship.

[1050] There's a third person in your relationship and my relationship.

[1051] Third person.

[1052] There's a world.

[1053] People have this vision of things that they have to share with us or have to, like, instruct us about even this weird thing of people having to almost pit us against each other.

[1054] Like, hey, you know, it's not a competition, but we win either way.

[1055] Right, right.

[1056] But by the way, it's the same as you being a musician.

[1057] you make people feel a certain way with your musical output.

[1058] And then when they meet you, there's some expectation that you as a person, chatting will give them that same emotion.

[1059] But you can't chatting give the emotion your music.

[1060] That's why you fucking do the music.

[1061] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1062] Because you're frustrated.

[1063] Because you're an introvert.

[1064] So, yeah, you can't deliver in person the thing that they fell in love with.

[1065] So it's a very similar pressure.

[1066] So your relationship certainly as portrayed in this documentary seems very aspirational.

[1067] It's beautiful.

[1068] It feels like of another time and space and planet and so special.

[1069] And if only there's so much like if only I could have that, which is beautiful.

[1070] But if you're out on the street and people are coming up to you two together and they're like crying, that must be weird.

[1071] Like I don't know how to handle this right now.

[1072] I'm a person.

[1073] It's also the merging of that.

[1074] because the experience of the music and what we've done there and the experience of what she's built, that coming together is super intense.

[1075] Individually as an artist, you want to cultivate that sort of intensity with folks because that's what's going to feed people the most.

[1076] But then in person, it's a difficult thing to understand when you're protecting your family and you're protecting what, is sacred for you and what helps you to replenish and thrive and then be able to deliver.

[1077] How do I continue to service this community that we love, but also...

[1078] Keep some stuff for yourself.

[1079] Yeah, because it's only one of each of us.

[1080] Yeah, exactly.

[1081] That's why I was like, man. Well, let's be honest, we both want it both ways.

[1082] So you do want to model and share as you did, and it's beautiful, and people hopefully feel very moved.

[1083] like we did.

[1084] And then you want to go to a different planet where you live on as a normal person because when Chris and I are in a restaurant and we're pissed at each other, it's all the time.

[1085] We go to New York and say, where do you want to eat?

[1086] No, I want to eat here.

[1087] We ate there last time.

[1088] Fuck it, fine.

[1089] We'll go to your plate.

[1090] And then they see us and like, we're both on our phone at a table.

[1091] And they're like, no, no, no, no. You're supposed to give me this warm, fuzzy feeling.

[1092] And I'm nervous you guys are getting divorced.

[1093] Like, that's the element.

[1094] How do you deal with that?

[1095] Well, how we have chosen to deal with it thus far is to try at every turn to be super honest about or we're in couples therapy and we don't get along and COVID was almost career ending for us.

[1096] It's just going.

[1097] I'm happy to share the fun post where I get her a sloth, but also no, it's a beat down and we hate each other sometimes.

[1098] It's all happening.

[1099] So I feel like the only antidote is just if you're going to be transparent on one end of it, then you're almost obligated to be transparent across the board or now it is a product.

[1100] Now it is curated.

[1101] Now it is inauthentic.

[1102] Wow.

[1103] So to me, the antidote is letting the other shit be known as well.

[1104] We've always said this.

[1105] We're flattered by this hashtag relationship goals.

[1106] But do not fool yourself.

[1107] You're not going to meet your Kristen.

[1108] Life's going to be easy.

[1109] It's a fucking job.

[1110] Just like your music's a job.

[1111] You work your fucking ass off.

[1112] It kills you.

[1113] The symphony almost killed you.

[1114] And the relationship's almost going to kill you.

[1115] But there'll be an opening night and you'll go, fuck, that's why I did it.

[1116] Yes.

[1117] The truth is the antidote.

[1118] The investment breeds these moments of just transcendent glory.

[1119] You give it all and you make it to those.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] And you're just hoping to go from like little hill you climb to the next little hill.

[1122] But most of it's a valley.

[1123] Do you feel an obligation to continue to be transparent?

[1124] Or is there a moment where you feel like, okay, we did it.

[1125] We've given a great example.

[1126] Now it's time for us to retreat.

[1127] Yeah.

[1128] We are 16 years down the road of this.

[1129] You are, I don't know what year you're on.

[1130] Two.

[1131] So there was a moment where, you know, I knocked a paparazzi down and I was freaked and I fucking hated it.

[1132] We wouldn't go anywhere.

[1133] There's definitely a whole ride.

[1134] For me, there becomes a moment of acceptance, which is like, you're not going to change the world.

[1135] Get realistic.

[1136] Learn to live life on life's terms.

[1137] it involves this, you got to get at peace with it or it's going to kill you.

[1138] And then you go like, oh, yeah, none of it matters.

[1139] If they know my kid's name, there were years where I didn't want anyone to know my kid's name.

[1140] Now they know everything's okay.

[1141] For me, it's been just a process of accepting it and learning to be fine with it.

[1142] And no, I don't think they'll ever be a moment we retreat.

[1143] Other than if we just go retire and there's no way you would see us, but I'm at peace with it now.

[1144] It's totally fine.

[1145] Other than, and I've talked about this on here a bunch, the pressure of, the third identity, which is us together, that's very present.

[1146] To be trying to service this third fictitious identity can get a little tricky.

[1147] And as far as balance, there's got to be times where you don't feel like being on and she does or vice versa.

[1148] It's a deep thing.

[1149] And with us in particular, I'm thinking about I'm always so protective of Sulaika and preserving her energy.

[1150] but even we go places and you have like TMZ.

[1151] It's not even planned.

[1152] So it's those moments more so where you're somewhere and then all of a sudden you're bum rushed and there's a conversation that someone wants to have.

[1153] And I'm like, no. And she's so generous.

[1154] Well, she's in a very unique situation, which is people are going to see American Symphony.

[1155] It's going to remind them of their loved one who went through that or maybe they went through that.

[1156] So the people that approach her are going to come at her with the level of emotion that, She will have to service and it's taxing.

[1157] She doesn't have to.

[1158] She doesn't have to.

[1159] I really do want to be clear about that.

[1160] She doesn't have to do.

[1161] I'm coming to a solution though, I think, maybe.

[1162] And it goes for us too, which I like, I cherish.

[1163] If you like this show, it's because you've been through some shit.

[1164] Maybe you're an addict.

[1165] You know how many people I meet that are fans of this show that they're on like month three of sobriety?

[1166] And I know what that's like.

[1167] And it's heavy.

[1168] We were at our friend Mantlaura's wedding.

[1169] There's another wedding going out at the same place.

[1170] This dude pulls me to sell.

[1171] and he goes, I'm only at this wedding because I listened to your show and I got sober.

[1172] My brother would have never had me here and I'm the best man and he started crying.

[1173] And then I started crying.

[1174] It's like, yeah, I'm going to walk through the world.

[1175] And I'm going to be at a wedding happy day, but I'm going to start crying with this dude.

[1176] I got to learn to love that and be grateful for that.

[1177] But maybe a tool that helps me a lot is it's all about expectations.

[1178] So, yes, it's when you didn't expect TMZ to be there and you feel fucking bum rushed.

[1179] and you were expecting another thing and that thing happened and now you didn't have a game plan for that.

[1180] You feel powerless.

[1181] That's very hard for me. So I have to be really good about where are we going, what should I expect?

[1182] When we go out and fly out of an airport, I'm going to talk to a lot of people.

[1183] People are going to try to take pictures of my kids.

[1184] I don't like that.

[1185] That's all coming.

[1186] And just admitting to myself that's coming helps me a lot.

[1187] When we think we're going to go to a beach that's in the middle of nowhere and there's three for target.

[1188] Now that's unexpected and I hate unexpected and I had expectations and the expectations are not coming true.

[1189] That's the discomfort for me. So the better I can get my expectations right, the easier it is.

[1190] Yes, you almost have to move through situations and know, oh, this happens.

[1191] Okay, I know where I'm going to shift to.

[1192] And guess what?

[1193] It's going to happen.

[1194] It will happen at one point.

[1195] So then when it doesn't happen, you're delighted because your expectation was I was going to have to deal.

[1196] with this and then when it does happen you're a genius in clairvoyant and you predicted this so at least you feel like you have power because you already knew about it.

[1197] Oh man this is great.

[1198] I don't know you can't be rude to people I know you I know you feel like you can't I understand the sense I can't touch it I'm sorry listen to you it will feel rude but it's actually just putting up a boundary and it's just like we actually can't talk today I'm so grateful for you and we're having alone time right now You have to practice it It will save you though Because if you're just giving and giving and giving You'll run out It's a lot What you just said even that made me get anxious I'm like I'm going to say that to the people I know And then you get to the point where you're driven To do something like that And set a boundary sometimes And you feel so outside of yourself Like oh no I'm thinking about it for a month Yeah Yeah.

[1199] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1200] Well, I will say the other thing.

[1201] I had to have kids to get to this point, which is I had to say to myself, guess what?

[1202] Some people that meet you are going to walk away and think you were an asshole.

[1203] But you know you're not.

[1204] You know you're not.

[1205] And your friends know you're not.

[1206] You're not.

[1207] I'm just like trying to.

[1208] No one that knows you would say that.

[1209] Yes.

[1210] And that's really important.

[1211] And I think you have to go like, yeah, okay with the fact that some people will not have the interaction they wanted and they'll tell everyone they know that I was an asshole and I'll still be alive and I'll still be able to do all the things I want it.

[1212] You know, like you do have to accept that some people, I was just thinking the other day, I was in some crazy situation.

[1213] Oh, we were in Vegas for the Formula One race.

[1214] Yeah, and Robbie was like, let's go eat at this restaurant.

[1215] I'm going to great, how far is it?

[1216] He's like, it's 15 minutes.

[1217] Great.

[1218] Cut to an hour and five minutes later.

[1219] We have been walking as fast as we can through Vegas, zipping in and out of people going up and down staircases, right?

[1220] I saw a look on someone's face that was so excited to see me, but I was on an hour and five minutes of this walk, considering just taking a cab to the airport and flying home.

[1221] That's why I was at mentally.

[1222] I was like, oh, this poor person, they're getting the me on an hour and a half walk to dinner, but that dachs exists.

[1223] Oh, man. See, that's the thing.

[1224] When you run into people, they're expecting 100%.

[1225] And I've had this tendency to just always want to give it.

[1226] Now we're together.

[1227] I want to protect Sulica.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] So then it's also like that.

[1230] That gets easier, right?

[1231] Yes.

[1232] It's probably easier for you to draw a boundary if it's for her.

[1233] Exactly.

[1234] So lean on that.

[1235] Ooh, that.

[1236] You're a bad man. You're a nasty man. Oh, my God.

[1237] I kind of want to tickle, John.

[1238] Like, I feel like that.

[1239] I kind of want to wrestle and tickle maybe.

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] The vibes, the reels.

[1242] Man, I feel like y 'all.

[1243] created this.

[1244] Y 'all created this thing that have this real conversation.

[1245] There's a moment in the dock.

[1246] Oh, I know what you're about to say.

[1247] You seem so fucking graceful about it.

[1248] I almost threw the remote.

[1249] I wanted to go to that airport and find the person.

[1250] The shoe shine.

[1251] The shoe shine.

[1252] Oh my gosh.

[1253] I cannot.

[1254] I was just about to say that to you.

[1255] You walk up to get a shoe shine.

[1256] He explains to you somehow he doesn't have the correct products to shine your shoes.

[1257] and then people start recognizing you.

[1258] Then he notices you're on the fucking cover of the newspaper.

[1259] This all happens real time.

[1260] It's insane.

[1261] And then he remembers he has a special polish that will work for your shoes.

[1262] Yeah, that's just people, man. But John, how do you...

[1263] It's not okay to live in a world where that's happy.

[1264] I can't handle it.

[1265] We're watching couples therapy, this amazing show.

[1266] Oh, yeah.

[1267] You watch it?

[1268] Oh, for sure.

[1269] So the tall black dude who's so awesome.

[1270] I love him so much.

[1271] The tall black dude who's with the Puerto Rican...

[1272] Season one.

[1273] woman.

[1274] He's letting us in on some stuff, which like, you know intellectually, but to hear him say, she's like, why don't you kind of stand up for yourself more?

[1275] Why aren't you more aggressive?

[1276] He's like, hon, I am a very large black man. I don't have the luxury of being aggressive or outspoken.

[1277] Things can go in a direction.

[1278] I have to cross the street so I don't scare people.

[1279] And I was like, oh my God, that hit me. When this racism conversation comes up, it's always positioned as just like, will they get this job?

[1280] Will you get into the school?

[1281] Will you make this money?

[1282] No, no. It's fucking walking down the street.

[1283] It's not being able to advocate for yourself.

[1284] It's all day, all the time.

[1285] Not at work.

[1286] It's everywhere.

[1287] And we keep thinking if we get these metrics right.

[1288] If we had, let's say, black folks are 16 % of the population and they occupied 16 % of CEO rolls.

[1289] Boom.

[1290] No. Get the numbers on the page.

[1291] That's not the beat down of the experience.

[1292] You trying to get a fucking shoe shine is the beat down.

[1293] I mean, you're holding five Grammys and you can't get a shoe shining.

[1294] That's reality in 2020.

[1295] Yes, yes.

[1296] I have experienced this speaking of being in the public and perception.

[1297] So even before, I had noticed when I first started working in TV and I would wear the thing that I'm seen on television, some version of that in public, people treat you in this way.

[1298] I go out, go to a restaurant that I frequent with a friend of mine.

[1299] This time, it's not after work.

[1300] I'm wearing a hoodie.

[1301] I'm covered.

[1302] You can still see I'm a black man. This guy who is the most effervescent, friendly person to me, all these other times, he's like, hey, you can't be here.

[1303] You can't wear a hoodie in here.

[1304] What?

[1305] So they're like, oh, excuse me. Yeah.

[1306] Another moment happened to me where I'm coming home before I'm so known.

[1307] This is a about 15 years ago in New York.

[1308] I'm living uptown.

[1309] I'm walking down to my apartment.

[1310] When Washington Heights, we go through an alley to get to this place.

[1311] It's a shortcut.

[1312] It's about 3 a .m. There's a woman there.

[1313] We're walking through.

[1314] I'm wearing a tuxedo.

[1315] She turns around.

[1316] She sees me. She keeps walking faster.

[1317] She turns around again, and I'm like, oh, she must have said, hello.

[1318] I wave.

[1319] She runs full speed.

[1320] She's thinking.

[1321] for whatever reason that she should be afraid of me. She's seeing a black man in an alley.

[1322] Forget that he's wearing a tuxedo.

[1323] So that's a deep part of our psychosis.

[1324] We're programmed in a certain way to perceive race, gender.

[1325] It's a certain perception for each category.

[1326] But I don't think a white person can actually understand what it's like to look at a human, that human to get scared.

[1327] It was deep.

[1328] It was a real lesson for me. And not that I didn't understand it before that, because I really did, but it was just such a perfect microcosm of the reality.

[1329] Encapsulated the whole experience.

[1330] Oh, wow.

[1331] You can't even do enough.

[1332] I'm in a tux going to my house.

[1333] We probably live in the same building.

[1334] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1335] And this person sees me and I'm waving.

[1336] And even thought that I needed to comfort this person, why do I need to make you feel safe?

[1337] I'm in my neighborhood.

[1338] Who are you?

[1339] Yeah.

[1340] There's such a deep.

[1341] And you see it in programs on television.

[1342] We're producing a lot of stuff now and thinking about images of black people who aren't perfect, nuanced images of black people in media.

[1343] N nuanced images of people of color and media.

[1344] Think about how limited it is and how much there's this desire to create a surface -level diversity.

[1345] It's like swirl economics.

[1346] We can just mix things and present the image of it and we know that people will buy into it because it sweeps under the rug the bigger issues that you're talking about, the nuance that actually needs to be addressed and understood so that people can actually then move it forward.

[1347] So not just on the page.

[1348] Well, let's think of our most primitive desire, which is the people will love us.

[1349] What is the opposite of people loving us?

[1350] People being terrified of us.

[1351] It's the opposite of what every human would want.

[1352] You're out of community then.

[1353] You're cast away.

[1354] It's the, I can't love you because.

[1355] I can't love you because.

[1356] I can't love you because.

[1357] you're brown.

[1358] There's something I can do.

[1359] Yeah, what are we going to do about this?

[1360] Yeah, I can't.

[1361] And it's the same.

[1362] It's, I feel I'm not worthy.

[1363] You feel like I'm not safe to be around.

[1364] This is why the reaction when stuff like what, you know, Trayvon Martin, Sandra Blan, all of these moments, you know, we were out marching in Brooklyn, thousands of us.

[1365] I was leading marches.

[1366] The feeling is so ubiquitous.

[1367] It's hard to even articulate.

[1368] Is it a protest or is it just an affirmation of humanity?

[1369] Is it all of the above and?

[1370] There's so much to be said.

[1371] How do you even express as someone who studied this civil rights movements and the effectiveness of them?

[1372] And, you know, you talk about the way that things were organized and the level of depth of study and philosophy that was put into it and understanding of policy and the connecting of so many dots that our greatest leaders did.

[1373] And the criticism is, well, you know, in the modern era, people don't know.

[1374] know what the end game is.

[1375] People don't have a vision of how to protest or how to connect those dots.

[1376] You're right, because in the 60s, there were actual laws to be attacked that could be seen as the finish line.

[1377] And now the finish line is a little bit opaque.

[1378] It's because of things that are so systematically built.

[1379] So how do you address something collectively that's really, really insidious.

[1380] And in general, I believe in people expressing their humanity.

[1381] This guy speaking in on couples therapy.

[1382] The gift he gave me and everyone that watched it.

[1383] Oh, man, this dude can't be himself.

[1384] That's his experience on planet Earth.

[1385] He was unable to be himself because it was too dangerous.

[1386] How do you express your humanity when there are things put in place to take it away that are invisible that sometimes you're not even aware of.

[1387] And that goes for all of us.

[1388] There's an assault on humanity through our political systems, through our worship of capitalism, and the chief value of our whole culture being driven towards monetization.

[1389] This is why images that we're seeing in media or discussions that we're having around how to change things are impossible because at the root...

[1390] Well, that's why I would argue.

[1391] It has to be led by art because the legislation can't do it.

[1392] Exactly.

[1393] They could pass any law they'd want.

[1394] It's not going to make that woman not afraid in an alley, regardless of what laws on the books.

[1395] Something much more penetrative has to happen.

[1396] And I think that's where art is quintessential.

[1397] Yeah, how we purify this.

[1398] How do we see each other again?

[1399] Think about that movie, Philadelphia, right?

[1400] Oh, yes.

[1401] How much that changed the landscape to see this man we all feel safe.

[1402] with Tom Hanks, go through this thing and just observe his story.

[1403] They're not telling you you have to do anything.

[1404] They're just asking you to watch the experience and then lo and behold what happens in the wake of it.

[1405] I map the progression of things by sitcoms that I love.

[1406] And so funny you say Philadelphia, when you said that it made me think about what I watched growing up, I've watched Dick Van Dyke's show.

[1407] Oh, okay.

[1408] And then I watched Mary Tyler Moore.

[1409] My favorite show is probably taxi, Andy Kaufman, Lodka, a character.

[1410] 21 gigawatts, what's his name?

[1411] How great was he in fucking taxi?

[1412] Do you remember the episode where Jim, I think, was his name on the character?

[1413] Jim, who plays in Back to the Future, Doc Brown, but Jim is a cabby.

[1414] And he has to pass his driving test, but he can't.

[1415] Do you know this episode?

[1416] And he brings two people from his cab company to help him cheat.

[1417] And he goes, what do you do it?

[1418] had a yellow light and they go slow down what do he just keeps saying it slower and slower yeah yeah yeah and he's going what trade episode oh my god you watch tax yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah too, huh?

[1419] Heartbreaking theme song.

[1420] Bob James.

[1421] The cab crossing the Brooklyn Bridge.

[1422] They were like, da -l -d -l -d -l -d -do -hoo.

[1423] Oh, yeah.

[1424] Minna 11.

[1425] They were like, hey, will you score this sitcom?

[1426] He came in there.

[1427] They're like, you're way off -base, but we're going to go with it.

[1428] We're just going to go with it.

[1429] It's so good.

[1430] We don't give a fuck that it doesn't match at all.

[1431] The tone of the show.

[1432] But it's perfect.

[1433] It's beautiful.

[1434] It's so good.

[1435] This is great.

[1436] The ideas of those shows of what was acceptable and then you get to, like, Jefferson's and all.

[1437] the family.

[1438] Yes, loved to own the family.

[1439] Oh, good times.

[1440] Even, you ever watch Gerard show?

[1441] I like Gerard Carl Michael.

[1442] Love him.

[1443] We interviewed in one of my favorite interviews.

[1444] His decision to make a sitcom in the modern age, to approach it the way he did, guys, brilliant.

[1445] Even before that, Bill Cosby show, you have to be perfect in order to be black in media and have it be real life.

[1446] For all of America to love it.

[1447] To accept it.

[1448] But then now look at Atlanta.

[1449] Oh.

[1450] And then you're like, Donald Glover.

[1451] Lover.

[1452] Atlantis should be the Cosby show.

[1453] That's what's infuriating.

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] You know what I'm saying?

[1456] That should be the most ubiquitous.

[1457] That show's number one for me. It's like a new language.

[1458] And it's all sides of him.

[1459] And that's the essence of the age we're in.

[1460] Yes.

[1461] This is kind of what we're talking about.

[1462] It's like, I'm going to give you all of it.

[1463] I'm going to give you some really funny stuff.

[1464] I'm going to give you some poignant stuff.

[1465] I'm going to give you a black and white episode where he's in the basement of Michael Jackson's house, but it's not Michael Jackson, but it is Michael Jackson.

[1466] I'm going to give you everything.

[1467] It does speak to something about what people are ready to accept in terms of the images and stories and who's represented and how they're represented.

[1468] There's so much that's left to be done.

[1469] We're still in the face of the Chris Rock joke as neighbors an average white dentist.

[1470] Like we're still in the phase where you have to be spectacular.

[1471] It really is a high bar.

[1472] That's the thing about what can happen.

[1473] happen if you show the normal, true depiction of a person.

[1474] Yes, that's the movement right now.

[1475] That's great.

[1476] We've had a few different guests on who have said, we want permission to show the full spectrum.

[1477] So us not being likable, us being likable.

[1478] Like that's really the request.

[1479] It's not just I want to be visible.

[1480] I want to be visible with all aspects of my humanity.

[1481] I'm going to be a full human.

[1482] Well, which is why I say when TMZ is up your ass, to say, we're not talking today.

[1483] We're not talking right now.

[1484] You're allowed to do that.

[1485] That's what people do.

[1486] And I know part of it is being a celebrity and being liked, but part of it, I'm sure, is being black and wanting to be nice and kind and represent.

[1487] You're representing everyone.

[1488] Oh, yeah.

[1489] This is the burden.

[1490] I've said this so much.

[1491] Of the many things I wouldn't like, being responsible at all times to represent an entire population of people, I'm not up for that.

[1492] I can barely represent myself almost.

[1493] Do you feel like you have anything in your life as a white person that is like that, that you feel representative of the lineage of or the expression of?

[1494] No, other than maybe an addict.

[1495] It's about like the only thing I feel this kind of importance that I represent correctly.

[1496] On the flip, I've thought about how do I represent, if I'm going to represent something larger, either make it be my family, or make it be humanity.

[1497] Because then it allows for the noble expression of the group.

[1498] And we need allegories.

[1499] We need figures to aspire to or to at least watch be aspirational.

[1500] Try to live up to the greatest ideals that have been defined by our greatest minds.

[1501] So I think it is actually important for us.

[1502] But when it's thrust upon you in a way that is looking for a, fall that's when the pressure is unhealthy and that's why i wonder besides race is there something that you feel i have the luxury of not that's the honest truth if BLM's at its height and i'm in an interview i don't have a responsibility to have an answer you do i saw it it's in the dog i can feel this guy tiptoeing around wanting you to make the statement that's going to service the thing about what's happening and please now go sum this up for us make us feel better and safe that's not on plate.

[1503] For Kristen, it's going down a red carpet, and we're both going down a red carpet.

[1504] I'm three people ahead of her.

[1505] Not one person's asked me, who's with the kids?

[1506] But that every person asks her, where are the kids?

[1507] So that's something as a woman.

[1508] Yeah, when you're a brilliant, successful woman, you're threatening too many.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] You're pushing against too many things.

[1511] Okay, you're starting to make me feel uncomfortable.

[1512] What can I do to take you out?

[1513] It's a similar.

[1514] You must be a terrible mom.

[1515] That'll make me feel better.

[1516] The, it's a wild thing.

[1517] I don't.

[1518] I'm lucky.

[1519] I mean, the best I can do is just own that.

[1520] But what about in comedy when you're putting that hat on?

[1521] For me, I also think about musicians and like, how do I live up to?

[1522] Quality is another one of our values and our family.

[1523] How do you live up to the highest quality in the craft?

[1524] Do you put that pressure on yourself or do you just say, I'm just being Dax and I'm doing my thing?

[1525] I have a commitment to write what I like and then accept whether that.

[1526] appealed to many people or not.

[1527] This is the only thing I can do.

[1528] I've never felt myself going like, I know people like that kind of thing and I'm going to try to do that or I could or it's there for the taking.

[1529] That I haven't done.

[1530] You know, I really enjoy stepping into that Lionsden in another medium.

[1531] Yeah, because you act a bunch now or you have.

[1532] Yes.

[1533] Being a person who's not viewed, okay, you have to represent the next phase of where this art form is going And you can just be a practitioner or taking something that's like the early cuts of this film.

[1534] I'm good friends with George Lucas and I didn't know this was going to happen.

[1535] He opened the opportunity for this to happen.

[1536] Matt sent me a cut of the film.

[1537] This is almost at the end.

[1538] Matt is incredible and he doesn't want me to show this film.

[1539] But I'm sitting with George and George is like, I hear you working on this film.

[1540] I got to see it.

[1541] And I'm like, okay, well, I want to step into this lines because he says, you know who's coming over today?

[1542] Francis Fort Coppola is coming Oh my God You're gonna get notes from these two And Ron Howard's Coming And Cecil B. DeMille just exited the grave And his ghost will be present He hangs out in the theater And watch his films With his friends And his friends just happen to be these people And then JR the great French artist is there And he's making a film And we all are watching each other's films Oh my Lord And we play the film And Francis is like Oh you have a film I would love to see your film John and I also play you my film.

[1543] So we're sitting and I'm in this lion's den and literally the film is up there and it's up against.

[1544] How scary.

[1545] Do you understand?

[1546] Yes.

[1547] It's insane.

[1548] Multiple Academy Award winners.

[1549] Like three of the best that ever did it.

[1550] I prefer that when, you know, I'm bringing into another space because hearing their perception from their medium, it informs my music.

[1551] Okay, great.

[1552] This was another observation I made about you from American Symphony that I found so envied.

[1553] You're still getting piano lessons.

[1554] I could not believe that.

[1555] And I was also like, this guy, what's he doing?

[1556] But he's doing the best part is.

[1557] He was great.

[1558] And I would have been that, Monica, just like you.

[1559] I've been like, I went to Julia.

[1560] I still got to see.

[1561] And the guy's getting rough with you.

[1562] He's like, no. He grabs your hand.

[1563] He's like, you got to breathe.

[1564] Yes.

[1565] You got to breathe.

[1566] It was a beautiful note.

[1567] But I was like, who is this guy thinking he is?

[1568] I don't know about this guy.

[1569] Yeah, I didn't like him either.

[1570] But what I was seeing, I was recognizing why I could never truly be great at something because you're still a student.

[1571] That part blew my mind.

[1572] The fact that you can sit down and take instruction, I crumble on criticism.

[1573] Man, I feel like you're so open in conversation that it seems like you're curious and you're constantly trying to grow.

[1574] Y 'all both are having these conversations and are trying to obviously take something from this into your life, not just for the sake of having.

[1575] And I feel that way with everything in the planet.

[1576] It's a growth mindset, they call it now in elementary school.

[1577] I feel like I don't know anything.

[1578] And I have to temper it, which is like I'm constantly looking to see what more I can know or how I can understand it better.

[1579] And at a certain point, it can drive me crazy to push and to push and to push and to want to almost forsake the things I think I know because I'm like, oh, no, that's older.

[1580] That's not going to be the thing that really is.

[1581] is going to resonate in the right way.

[1582] Screw that.

[1583] But then I'm like, no, that was hard fought to get.

[1584] So then I need to have these pillars of feedback, the great part about that scene, watching that back, I'm like, oh, wow, remember, I first met him.

[1585] He's an incredible piano teacher who I met.

[1586] I was 19.

[1587] I took a lesson every day for a year.

[1588] And it's like, oh, wow.

[1589] I'm still trying to think about the things that I was doing when I was 19.

[1590] I love he goes, yeah, you remember the first time he played and you did a bunch of fancy stuff to try to impress me. Yeah, William Dogley.

[1591] That's him.

[1592] He pulls no punches.

[1593] That's so.

[1594] Oh, my gosh.

[1595] It's from day one.

[1596] But yeah, I don't know.

[1597] And if you can give me insight, I'm welcoming it.

[1598] Yes, beautiful.

[1599] I admire it.

[1600] They say, the most brilliant people understand they don't know anything.

[1601] Wow.

[1602] That's what it means to be smart, is to understand that you actually don't know anything.

[1603] Okay, last thing I was going to say, I said at your market, and it's the thing I'm envious about.

[1604] So what Monica and I both experienced, which is blissful and transcendent, is improvving on a stage with people.

[1605] It feels so good.

[1606] But it's not emotion.

[1607] When I was watching you connect with these different musicians and go places, I found myself like, oh, my God, I'm not ever going to be able to experience that before I died.

[1608] This is tragic.

[1609] I just got so jealous that you can do that.

[1610] I guess I wanted to know that it does feel in your chest and in your heart the way it seems like it would.

[1611] It's one of the best feelings.

[1612] I can't describe.

[1613] Yeah, I thought you couldn't.

[1614] How could anyone?

[1615] It becomes like a super consciousness, as you probably experience in some way when a joke that is improvised or a scene that's improvised lands in the timing and the moment in the audience, it just all feels like while we're connected to something in this moment that's created oneness.

[1616] There's a real beauty to that.

[1617] That is so, so inspiring.

[1618] It's so hopeful.

[1619] It leaves you with such a feeling of inspiration that I can't even express to you how much it's changed my life knowing that that's an option.

[1620] That's a space to go into.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] And do you make space for it?

[1623] Do you intentionally go, I need X amount of this in my life?

[1624] Do you protect it?

[1625] That's what I want to ask.

[1626] I've tried to make everything, every process, and ultimately living life, an act of creativity and inspiration and improv in the most structured environments on the biggest stages in the studio or any sort of expectation where this is where you buttoned it up, this way you like got a zero in and you got to know what's going to happen before you get there I always leave space a little wiggle room and make it be as free in certain zones yeah as possible okay great so do you think it was a gift ultimately the fucking power goes out in the middle of this thing you've been working on forever while juggling a bone marrow transfusion and the Grammy thing.

[1627] And now all this, and the power goes out.

[1628] One night only performance that you've been working on for five years.

[1629] Literally, this performance had been postponed three times.

[1630] I got COVID.

[1631] The day before the concert.

[1632] Oh, boy.

[1633] Okay.

[1634] I woke up in the morning, took the test, and I felt like crap, a bus hit me, and then I'd be hospitalized.

[1635] That's not even in the film, but that was happening in the world film.

[1636] Perfect.

[1637] He filmed it.

[1638] He captured 1 ,500 hours of footage.

[1639] Oh, my God.

[1640] Matt Hine is a beast and this guy is relentless and it's truly just like I just want the truth of what happened and the story's going to tell me what it's supposed to be and I'm going to capture this and I'm going to capture that and then I'll decide three postponements I'm bedridden three months before what you see in the dock as the premiere literally in the hospital before that the world shuts down and it was postponed another year we get on stage you got an orchestra that I hand -selected these people in the orchestra.

[1641] You got people with modular synthesizers.

[1642] People who are playing classical instruments with like indigenous folk instruments all blended together.

[1643] It's just this impossible logistical thing.

[1644] Matt has 12 cameras shooting with Steadicam on stage.

[1645] That was a battle in and of itself.

[1646] Then we're recording it.

[1647] We're going through all of this stuff, union stuff.

[1648] This orchestra is hand -selected.

[1649] Some of these people have never even played indoors before.

[1650] and we're on stage the first movement the power goes out for 15 minutes 15 minutes not only does it go out for 15 minutes no one in the audience is aware because the light in the venue only on stage is the power out only on stage yeah it's not like the whole Carnegie Hall went dark right I'm watching you hit that little board I thought you were doing some kind of a beat and I'm like I don't hear the beat he's making I just bump up but nothing's happening oh so stressful the anxiety and then you have this crazy moment it appeared to be at some point you surrendered to it absolutely and then what was the piece you played was that it was completely improvised it was completely improvised and it starts with the frustration of the moment it starts out hectic in nina simony yes and then we find some beautiful kind of exit to it it transforms real time it's almost like we're literally peeking inside what's happening inside of your body physiologically.

[1651] It's like panic, frustration, stress.

[1652] It starts, and then now you're doing the thing you know how to do.

[1653] And you remember you can swim.

[1654] Yes.

[1655] And then you're like, wait, we have a big hole to fill and I know how to fill it.

[1656] That's what it appeared to be.

[1657] Is that what was happening internally?

[1658] That's what was happening in my reverse analysis of it.

[1659] In the moment, it was survival.

[1660] And it was just this idea that, oh, wow.

[1661] so many people created the opportunity for us to be the people to create this moment in history.

[1662] Whether you know it or not, this is so important, and for it to be halted, it felt like a spiritual attack.

[1663] Just like the years of toil and the craft of music and studying all these people's music and living life and trying to transmute that into music and vice versa and all this comes into a piece of music that's like, oh, wow, I didn't even have the audacity to even try to write anything like this.

[1664] a few years before this and now we did it and we're here it's like who pulled the plug who is trying to attack us what force out there is trying to attack us yeah it's the same force that's got you at the hospital exactly it was a processing of it and a purging of it was like a battle we come out on the other side we can just take a deep breath and finally just revel in this moment Sulika is there front and center I mean it was really a spiritual purging It's a battle.

[1665] I bet that's quite an experience to have lived through.

[1666] Because fear of things, right?

[1667] Like your worst nightmares and what they feel like they'll be versus what they're like when you're walking through them, when you show up, as you said.

[1668] It's so much better.

[1669] It's almost like I revel in that.

[1670] You survived and now you wouldn't change a thing, I'd imagine.

[1671] No. I prefer it.

[1672] Yeah, it was rad.

[1673] That was quite a moment.

[1674] The documentary American Symphony is so beautiful and wonderful.

[1675] And then World Music Radio, which is your album that's out right now, which, if I can just give a shout out that my kids love Be Who You Are so much.

[1676] I've been listening to your music all week in preparation for this and driving the kids of school.

[1677] And then when Be Who You Are came on, Lincoln already knows the words, which is awesome.

[1678] But for me, calling your name is the song.

[1679] I love that.

[1680] Oh, my God.

[1681] Can I tell you the funniest story?

[1682] Chris and I got on a plane leaving Nashville one time.

[1683] It's like 11 years ago and fucking Lionel Richie was on the plane He's three rows ahead of us And then in the middle of the flight He just gets up and he comes over to our seat We're assuming he doesn't know who we are And he goes, hi, I'm Lionel Richie And I'm like, oh my God How are you?

[1684] Hello.

[1685] We're chatting And he had just performed at Bonarue And we were there promoting something at Bonarroo Oh yeah, I was at Baneru too And I said, you know, I have to tell you This is going to blow your mind But I actually know what your best song is And he goes, oh, what is my best?

[1686] best song.

[1687] And I go, this is your life.

[1688] And he goes, that is my best song.

[1689] There's no way he thought that.

[1690] But it was this hilarious moment where he was nice enough to give me that.

[1691] Oh my God, was it fun?

[1692] That's great.

[1693] Lionel Richie, he should be studied in music programs.

[1694] He did something transitioning from where he started to where he ended up as a songwriter and his cultural presence that's really pretty unprecedented.

[1695] And done very elegantly.

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] A whole ride.

[1698] Oh, yeah.

[1699] We just were together in Montreau.

[1700] Sulica family is in Tunisia and also in Switzerland.

[1701] So we were there the whole family for a month.

[1702] And we spent some time with Mr. Ritchie.

[1703] We were hanging out out there.

[1704] He was performing at the great the Montreau Jazz Festival.

[1705] And we were just there.

[1706] And then I called him and I said, hey, I just like to spend time around the legends.

[1707] Yeah.

[1708] Again, they know something, but it's oftentimes just being around them.

[1709] you pick up something.

[1710] Even just the way you gave me that anecdote, the exchange and his energy, I got something from that.

[1711] Yeah, it's like, wow, this is how you are.

[1712] Your music will never be any more less than you are as a human being.

[1713] All of it's coming out.

[1714] That's what you have to give, what you are, so what are you?

[1715] Yes, yes.

[1716] Ooh, he says, sun and a star, night in the day.

[1717] World music radio.

[1718] It's so good.

[1719] It's so good.

[1720] So if we were on an airplane, And I would have told you, you know, the best song on that album is calling your name.

[1721] Oh, man. Oh, so beautiful.

[1722] This has been so heavenly.

[1723] I have to shut it down.

[1724] I wouldn't shut it down, if not reality, we're knocking at the door.

[1725] Yeah, I mean, we're probably in trouble because you had a heart out, but we blew.

[1726] Way past it.

[1727] I'm not so good at those.

[1728] Yeah, us either.

[1729] Us either.

[1730] Just go with it.

[1731] Roll with it.

[1732] Hey, long.

[1733] This was a dream.

[1734] This was a dream.

[1735] So you, will you be set up?

[1736] Like, would you be set up?

[1737] Yeah.

[1738] Really?

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] You get my number and you set me up.

[1741] Okay.

[1742] You'll be set up.

[1743] Yeah.

[1744] I can't wait to hear who you got in mine.

[1745] Wow.

[1746] L .A. base has to be L .A. base.

[1747] I am building a house.

[1748] That's right.

[1749] There's roots getting.

[1750] Man, I would call.

[1751] I can't wait to see who this is.

[1752] Jake.

[1753] Hey, Jacob, you're lucky as a motherfucker.

[1754] I know what you got.

[1755] You don't even know.

[1756] yeah well you know what we got something okay i like it i like that john this has been so fun yeah so so fun oh way that all this is at closest i'm going to get to it i love it all we're the man woo that good day give that good that good that good that The taxi theme song.

[1757] Here we go.

[1758] Transition to the taxi theme song.

[1759] How's it go?

[1760] How's it go?

[1761] Monica's so nervous.

[1762] I love John doing it.

[1763] You don't like you.

[1764] I love it.

[1765] She wants me to stay out of it.

[1766] I get it.

[1767] We have a history.

[1768] Like Picasso's here.

[1769] he's painting.

[1770] I'm like, hey, I got paints too.

[1771] Look at these.

[1772] Yeah.

[1773] That's what's happening.

[1774] But I also love that you're expressing yourself.

[1775] Thank you.

[1776] If you do another one night only symphony, can you please invite us?

[1777] That's so interesting.

[1778] I had a similar request.

[1779] I was so angry watching this that I wasn't there for that.

[1780] Well, you know what I'm angry about?

[1781] And it's literally in my notes.

[1782] I want to see Stay Human on a subway or in person in public.

[1783] If you told me we're playing tomorrow, I will fly to New York that day.

[1784] That is a life goal of mine now.

[1785] Do you guys ever still do that?

[1786] Yeah.

[1787] You know, I'm doing my first ever tour in February.

[1788] Okay, so February, what's the name of the tour?

[1789] It's called Purifying the Airwaves.

[1790] Purifying the Airwaves.

[1791] And I'm doing it in small theaters.

[1792] And it's across America is the election year.

[1793] And it's the time where I feel like the stay human experience needs to be revived.

[1794] Right.

[1795] And that experience that we created together in this time is almost more relevant than it was when we were doing in the subway in 2011, 2012.

[1796] We're even further off course now.

[1797] Yeah.

[1798] I almost feel like the tour is a love campaign, like a love revolution.

[1799] And it has to be town hall feeling intimate.

[1800] There's so many things we're going to do around it.

[1801] Schools we're going to go into community centers.

[1802] We're going to be playing in the public.

[1803] I have a bus.

[1804] Do you need me to drive you to all these shows?

[1805] Man, come on.

[1806] Let's go.

[1807] However I can make myself useful.

[1808] Come on.

[1809] I'm getting back into the stay human experience.

[1810] Keep us updated.

[1811] Well, I'll be going to those.

[1812] I'll go see those shows.

[1813] But also, if you ever think you're going to pop out on First Avenue and get crazy, I want to be there.

[1814] I'll try to snap and clap quietly, Monica.

[1815] But I can't make any promises.

[1816] I won't get it.

[1817] Oh, I'll bring my...

[1818] Oh, my God.

[1819] Is you're going to come with your drum set?

[1820] Oh, God.

[1821] Wow, lovely.

[1822] This has just been heaven sent.

[1823] Thank you.

[1824] Thank you.

[1825] Be well.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

[1828] Hello.

[1829] Hi.

[1830] Are you still nauseing on your chippies?

[1831] A little.

[1832] I have a couple chippies left.

[1833] Stuckieck.

[1834] your teeth.

[1835] Chips will do that.

[1836] You have some chips and then you're dealing with it for a little while afterwards.

[1837] I do love a chip.

[1838] Yeah.

[1839] They're phenomenal.

[1840] Especially a salt and vinegar.

[1841] I know.

[1842] More vinegar the better, please.

[1843] Extravin.

[1844] Ex or van.

[1845] Don't be stingy with the Vinnie.

[1846] That'd be a cool shirt.

[1847] Don't be stingy with the Vinny.

[1848] Sure.

[1849] It'd be extra cool if your name was Vinny.

[1850] Oh, we should get that for Vinny.

[1851] Yeah, we should.

[1852] And one for Siney.

[1853] And Sini.

[1854] Stingy with the Sini.

[1855] Speaking of Sini and Vinny, David, David, David Farrier, who we call cinnamon, a K. Cini, he ordered Vincent a hat, a baby white socks hat, like a year and a half ago or something.

[1856] Right when he was born.

[1857] Yeah.

[1858] And it just arrived?

[1859] Yes.

[1860] I feel like that would only happen to David.

[1861] This is so in keeping.

[1862] It is.

[1863] It ended up getting like to FedEx, even though it wasn't FedEx.

[1864] It like got all over.

[1865] And the guy wrote this long letter to David.

[1866] The guy delivering it.

[1867] UPS driver.

[1868] Someone from like they had paid for like D .HL postage and brought it to UPS.

[1869] So it just got stuck in this like.

[1870] It got stuck in this like internal world.

[1871] And then some guy working there like came across it.

[1872] And I guess it was all fucked up so he could see what was in it.

[1873] Uh -huh.

[1874] And then he wrote this whole.

[1875] letter.

[1876] It's very sweet actually.

[1877] It's a very heartwarming story.

[1878] A lot of apologies in the letter?

[1879] No, because it wasn't that guy's fault.

[1880] So, but he made sure it got to him.

[1881] Okay.

[1882] He took it on his zone to get this.

[1883] Maybe because he saw it was for a baby.

[1884] That would help motivate you to be helpful.

[1885] I think.

[1886] And he was a White Sox fan himself.

[1887] It's a movie miracle.

[1888] It might be a Christmas.

[1889] It sounds like it might be a meet you.

[1890] They might fall in love in the mail episode.

[1891] Ding, ding.

[1892] Ding.

[1893] Easter egg.

[1894] It does sound like a Christmas movie.

[1895] Exactly.

[1896] Yeah, like it was supposed to be delivered.

[1897] Ding, ding, day.

[1898] Christmas.

[1899] That's coming.

[1900] Well, today, again, and I'm with it now, so today's really December 1st.

[1901] Yeah.

[1902] So I woke the girls up with the Charlie Brown Christmas album playing throughout the house.

[1903] It's on now.

[1904] It's like, we cannot miss it.

[1905] Today's the day.

[1906] Today's a day.

[1907] Christmas songs start today, and they will not stop until the new year.

[1908] Today is the day I get to start eating my Tony's Advent calendar.

[1909] Oh, you have a Tony's Advent calendar.

[1910] You know Tony's chocolate?

[1911] I do not.

[1912] Yes, you do.

[1913] Okay.

[1914] The big bars, your family has them.

[1915] Oh, I do know.

[1916] Yeah, it looks like kids drew the packaging.

[1917] Yes.

[1918] And it's so delicious.

[1919] They have an Advent calendar this year they sent me, and I get a new chocolate.

[1920] every day.

[1921] I'm so excited.

[1922] Fun.

[1923] Yes.

[1924] Okay.

[1925] About to get serious?

[1926] Yeah.

[1927] I'm doing serious.

[1928] Okay.

[1929] You're shifting gears.

[1930] Yes.

[1931] I feel bad because this has now happened multiple times recently where we are recording the fact check so quickly after we've recorded the guest.

[1932] Oh, I actually prefer that.

[1933] Well, it's not.

[1934] Well, today it's good, I guess.

[1935] Normally I don't like that.

[1936] Okay.

[1937] But in this.

[1938] this weird case, because one of the complaints I read about online, which is a fairer one, is so often we don't talk anything about the guests, right?

[1939] Oh, that's weird.

[1940] I hear the opposite.

[1941] I'm like, you never get to the facts.

[1942] Right, which would be about the guest.

[1943] Oh, that's what they mean then.

[1944] Well, it can go either way, right?

[1945] But the problem is it might have been a week later, and it's just not on front of mind.

[1946] So in this case, what I'm glad about, I don't think it's going to wane, but the amount of magic I feel in my heart and soul in this moment because we're in the direct wake of it.

[1947] Well, yeah.

[1948] Okay.

[1949] So let me finish.

[1950] So we've been having so many episodes where the fact check is recorded so quickly after the guest is recorded that there isn't, I haven't edited it yet.

[1951] I don't even have it yet.

[1952] So I can't do facts on it.

[1953] Right.

[1954] And I feel like maybe people think we've given up.

[1955] We don't care anymore.

[1956] Yeah.

[1957] And that's not true.

[1958] I want to remind everyone there was a very long and rich writers and actor strike that we still are feeling the ramifications of, which means normally we have a little buffer that we don't have.

[1959] Exactly.

[1960] It's kind of fun.

[1961] We're flying by the seat of our pants.

[1962] It's fun.

[1963] And stressful.

[1964] Yeah.

[1965] So we have just finished interviewing John Batiste.

[1966] Yes.

[1967] And now we're doing a fact check on him.

[1968] So yet again, there are no facts because.

[1969] We literally just did it.

[1970] But I would venture to say, I don't think there are any facts on this episode.

[1971] It didn't feel fact heavy.

[1972] It felt emotional heavy.

[1973] It felt art heavy.

[1974] Art both is and isn't facts.

[1975] Yes.

[1976] I have been wanting to have him on for quite a long time.

[1977] And you know why my witch, my face witch, who I don't necessarily consider a very plugged in.

[1978] Right, to the zeitgeist of pop culture.

[1979] Yeah, because she lives in Hogwarts.

[1980] Which land, yeah.

[1981] She mentioned him that she had seen him on something or an interview or something.

[1982] This was a while ago.

[1983] She was like, you should really have him on your show.

[1984] Oh, she suggested to have it on the show.

[1985] Yes.

[1986] Oh, wow.

[1987] Yes.

[1988] And she was she right.

[1989] Let me thank her.

[1990] She was telling me about his story, him and Sul Lika's story.

[1991] And I was like, oh, wow, that really does sound really interesting.

[1992] I don't need to say this, but I'm going to say it.

[1993] If you watch the doc and then you watch him perform, say, at the Grammys, and you wonder, is he actually that person?

[1994] Could someone be that person?

[1995] I just want to say that he in person is beyond that person.

[1996] The thing that seems unimaginable when you're watching him perform or whatever, there's actually more of that in real life.

[1997] I know.

[1998] I mean, he's in the top five most unique people we've interviewed.

[1999] Top five?

[2000] I think.

[2001] Well, I just, I say that.

[2002] to be safe because we've had so many and I'll probably think, I'll be like, oh, really?

[2003] Letterman?

[2004] I don't know.

[2005] No, Lederman is, but he's not.

[2006] Like, I loved that.

[2007] So I'm not saying, yes, I think he's the most unique person we've had on this show.

[2008] I said, and I stand by, I think he's the highest level of genius we've had in this attic.

[2009] I do think that.

[2010] I think it above the scientists.

[2011] It's a different frequency of life he is living on.

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] He's been dropped down.

[2014] Like, I believe that.

[2015] It's adjacent to what you're saying, but I would say his version of genius is in the most finite amount I've ever seen.

[2016] Like, there are almost nobody that has his specific genius.

[2017] That's what I mean.

[2018] Yeah, yeah.

[2019] That's what I mean.

[2020] Like, it is a truly one of one on so many levels, not just his musical ability.

[2021] His synthesis, oh, here we go with this horrible word.

[2022] Is that plagued you a lot?

[2023] Synthesis, synthesis.

[2024] Synthesis.

[2025] His synthesis.

[2026] There's no Z. We really want to make it synthesis.

[2027] Real time, fact, check.

[2028] There's no Z in synthesis.

[2029] That's right.

[2030] His synthesis of what life is about.

[2031] Mm -hmm.

[2032] And his ability to communicate that through music is on another, it's just another level.

[2033] Yes.

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] Oh, but just the spirit of his energy.

[2036] Oh, it's so fun.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] Yeah, when I said I wanted to, like, tickle him and roll around with him, that's the best way I can explain how I felt about him.

[2039] I'm like, I just want to, like, tickle and roll and just tackle each other.

[2040] Wow.

[2041] Like, like, puppies, like, playing a pen.

[2042] Oh, but you don't want to hurt him on accident.

[2043] Oh, God, no. No, I just want to, like, play, like, the play was so fun verbally, and then the, and then now I just want to, like, wrestle and, you know.

[2044] You're a very physical purpose.

[2045] I am.

[2046] It's my first language.

[2047] It's my love language.

[2048] It is your love language.

[2049] Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

[2050] Yeah, touch, squeeze, shove.

[2051] Physical touch.

[2052] Yeah, sometimes you throw people across the door.

[2053] Give someone a 10.

[2054] Pick him up, carry him around.

[2055] During the Wiz Khalifa episode, you pushed me down.

[2056] Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[2057] And he had to act like he didn't see it.

[2058] He wasn't worried about the domestic abuse that was happening in front of his eyes.

[2059] Imagine if you tickled him.

[2060] By the end, it would have worked.

[2061] I think it would have to.

[2062] Yeah.

[2063] He almost tickled me by the end.

[2064] he was very sweet with Lincoln whiz whiz yes and Lincoln that was so weird Lincoln is not a huger by nature I mean she hugs us of course but she's not like Delta will hug any an Uber driver Lincoln's not that way and when Lincoln walked up and just started looking at him she just weirdly instinctually just walked in and hugged him when she greeted him which is so on Lincoln something like he was very warm towards her I noticed it I was like oh man man, he's really, and he has a 10 -year -old, so I'm sure he connects with that age.

[2065] But it was really sweet.

[2066] And not just does he have a 10 -year -old, which became very clear.

[2067] He's very into the 10 -year -old in a way that is so, he doesn't just have a kid.

[2068] But we're not here to talk about whiz.

[2069] But we could as well.

[2070] But we can if we want.

[2071] Let's go back to the facts thing.

[2072] Okay, great.

[2073] So people will complain about that.

[2074] But part of me doesn't buy it a tiny bit because let's be honest.

[2075] Yeah.

[2076] Even in the best version, facts make up like 7 % of this.

[2077] And we've been doing it for six years.

[2078] And we talk for an hour every time.

[2079] So I can't imagine you're still listening to the fact check expecting a ton of facts.

[2080] That's the part I don't understand.

[2081] My guess is that people who listen to the fact check like hearing about what's going on in our life.

[2082] That's my hope.

[2083] And my kind of believe at this point, because this isn't new that we're only giving facts for 5 % of the time.

[2084] We do pick up new listeners along the way.

[2085] Did you read the breakdown that Spotify sent us about our?

[2086] year.

[2087] Yes, I did.

[2088] Did you notice what our fastest growing, it says our fastest growing countries.

[2089] Yes, I knew.

[2090] Do you see what number two was?

[2091] Yes, I knew you.

[2092] India.

[2093] Boom.

[2094] You didn't see it.

[2095] India.

[2096] Yeah, yeah.

[2097] I thought you were just guessing.

[2098] But yes, it was India.

[2099] I know.

[2100] Was that not a shocker to you?

[2101] It was.

[2102] I was not expecting it.

[2103] Yeah.

[2104] I was like, wow.

[2105] Well, I guess one reason I wasn't expecting that is I kind of forget that everyone speaks English there or that many, many people speak English there.

[2106] I forget that.

[2107] Pretty much all, yeah.

[2108] Like whenever we see the breakdown of who's listening, generally outside of the U .S., like Australia is always up there, Canada's up there.

[2109] It's all English speaking, New Zealand, England.

[2110] So to see India, I was thrilled.

[2111] But then I was like, yeah, they do speak English.

[2112] And there are a billion Indians.

[2113] So I wonder if a lot of them are my family.

[2114] That crossed my mind.

[2115] I'm not kidding because when we went and saw Hussin, the audience is 93%.

[2116] Indian, Daisy, Daisy.

[2117] And what I liked about that is, like, they show up for each other.

[2118] Yeah.

[2119] And you're Indian.

[2120] So I was like, maybe they're showing up for Miami.

[2121] They might be.

[2122] Yes.

[2123] Your Indianist could maybe make us past Joe Rogan.

[2124] Because there's a billion.

[2125] What if when you go to India, you're like Justin Bieber there.

[2126] And I don't even know.

[2127] You haven't been to India before either.

[2128] When I was four.

[2129] Yeah, your first time back.

[2130] What if there are murals up?

[2131] That would be.

[2132] They don't give a fuck.

[2133] They have their own.

[2134] They have huge.

[2135] stars there.

[2136] They are not paying attention to little old me. I think they are.

[2137] I think that's why we're seeing the huge growth.

[2138] And I thank you.

[2139] Rob and I both thank you on behalf of the show.

[2140] We thank you.

[2141] I was excited to see that.

[2142] Because if we, let's just say that we had the same percentage of listeners per capita in India that we had in the U .S. Well, that would be a jug or not.

[2143] Maybe I should go.

[2144] Do a little tour.

[2145] Let's do a press tour.

[2146] Yeah, do a little press tour.

[2147] I'm dying to get to Carolas.

[2148] I know.

[2149] We still trying to, my parents, my parents are planning a trip, a big India trip after my dad retires maybe, or whatever, in a couple years.

[2150] He's not going to retire.

[2151] I know.

[2152] But he's acting like he's going to?

[2153] Yeah.

[2154] Yeah.

[2155] It's kind of a dad thing to do.

[2156] And so he, I do think, wants to give her that.

[2157] Yeah.

[2158] So they're making all these trips and plans and stuff.

[2159] You know what he's probably, I suggested this to my father -in -law.

[2160] When he's getting ready to retire, They're not going to want them to retire.

[2161] It's a prime opportunity to say, like, I'd like to go down to six months a year.

[2162] Just throw it out there to see if that's an option.

[2163] He'll keep doing contract with.

[2164] Yeah.

[2165] Do that.

[2166] Yes.

[2167] He already, because he was supposed to retire, like, before.

[2168] Of course.

[2169] Same with Kristen's dad.

[2170] Yeah.

[2171] His work's changing a bit.

[2172] Like, now he's more into a mentor role, which he really likes.

[2173] Look, here's the other thing.

[2174] I want them to travel because I know that I'll make my mom very happy.

[2175] but I think it's keeping him young and I like that for him.

[2176] The work.

[2177] Yes.

[2178] And mentally agile and all that.

[2179] Yeah, and it gives him a ton of self -esteem.

[2180] He says that.

[2181] Also, he is an enormous brain that has to be focused on something.

[2182] Yeah.

[2183] That's what people don't predict.

[2184] Exactly.

[2185] Like, what fills that?

[2186] I know.

[2187] It's hard.

[2188] And he doesn't have hobbies.

[2189] He was forced to retire.

[2190] He was the longest employee at Wonder Bread in their history.

[2191] He was forced to retire because because he had an ulcer that actually blew out.

[2192] And I remember going to the hospital and he was forced to retire.

[2193] Yeah.

[2194] And he was so depressed.

[2195] Yeah.

[2196] He really took that heart.

[2197] When you think about retiring, what do you think?

[2198] Think about it?

[2199] You're so young.

[2200] I don't think about it at all.

[2201] I have a bigger fear of when this show, when you retire.

[2202] Right.

[2203] Like when this show comes to an end, what the fuck will I do then?

[2204] Like what is next for me?

[2205] that scares me a lot, but I tried to, I try to remember that there was a time before this.

[2206] Yeah, that you were happy and fine and healthy.

[2207] Well, no, that like there was a time before this and then this came.

[2208] Right.

[2209] And I could never have imagined it or expected.

[2210] Yeah.

[2211] So.

[2212] I have a plan for you, but, you know.

[2213] What is it?

[2214] I just think you're such an exceptional writer.

[2215] Thank you.

[2216] That is on my list.

[2217] Yeah, you could write.

[2218] It's on my list.

[2219] several different ways.

[2220] By the way, that's my retirement plan.

[2221] Yeah.

[2222] Like, I'm not going to just...

[2223] Sit around.

[2224] Wake up in the morning and then relax throughout the day.

[2225] I don't think that's ever in my future.

[2226] Yeah.

[2227] So what is it I'll do?

[2228] And that's for me, what it'll be.

[2229] Yes.

[2230] I definitely want to devote time to it.

[2231] Speaking of...

[2232] I have some...

[2233] I don't know for sure.

[2234] I don't know for sure.

[2235] but I think I might not do my gift guide this year.

[2236] Oh my God.

[2237] Well, it's funny you'd bring that up because I was laying in bed last night.

[2238] I was thinking like, fuck, Monica, let's get going.

[2239] I need the shit.

[2240] I got to start ordering because it won't get here in time.

[2241] I know.

[2242] That's why I'm feeling like, oh, fuck, I have to do it today, tomorrow.

[2243] But right now, we have a lot going on right now up until we have a break.

[2244] then it'll be too late.

[2245] Right.

[2246] And up until that point, I feel overwhelmed.

[2247] Like, we just have a lot.

[2248] We do.

[2249] Six shows a week.

[2250] We have six shows a week and two fact check.

[2251] I have eight edits a week.

[2252] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2253] And that's great and fine.

[2254] And I love it.

[2255] As long as that's all you have.

[2256] But I, yeah, like the idea of doing the gift guide feels like two might feels like one thing too much.

[2257] The bra.

[2258] Yeah, the straw that's going to break.

[2259] The straw that might break this camel.

[2260] And I am a camel because I don't drink water.

[2261] It's fat.

[2262] I might change my mind.

[2263] I might do a big pivot.

[2264] I got to start making backup plans.

[2265] I got to like, well, everyone's getting gift cards this year.

[2266] And you can blame Monica.

[2267] If you're pissed about the lack of thought that went into it, you can blame Monica.

[2268] That's my fault.

[2269] It just reminded me because I posted this week about Chad's show.

[2270] Yes, beautiful.

[2271] Again, you're writing.

[2272] Beautifully written.

[2273] It's so good.

[2274] The show is really good.

[2275] That was not an exaggeration.

[2276] I think there is an episode, the second to last episode of the show is, that's the one we cried at the end of it.

[2277] When I was editing it again, I was bawling.

[2278] I am so grateful that that piece of work exists.

[2279] Yes.

[2280] And that we are affiliated with it is another level of gratitude.

[2281] It's very special.

[2282] So I, in fact, intimidatingly so.

[2283] because I'm supposed to do a season of it and you are.

[2284] I'm like, I don't know.

[2285] I know.

[2286] I think I might do a twist.

[2287] Here we go.

[2288] Last year.

[2289] I'm probably not going to do a gift guy.

[2290] No, I think if I do it or when eventually, I might do a exploration of all the boys and men who have impacted my life.

[2291] Oh, interesting.

[2292] And contributed slash not, such maybe I'll learn they didn't or they did to my issues with boys and men.

[2293] Yeah.

[2294] So to help you comprehend it all.

[2295] Process my stuff.

[2296] I know where you're at.

[2297] Jed said it.

[2298] We've had a bunch of people say it.

[2299] We all know it well.

[2300] It's so maddening to know why you are the way you are and it has no impact.

[2301] It's crazy.

[2302] I have a date tonight.

[2303] It is taking everything.

[2304] to not cancel.

[2305] Can I tell you, I'm so proud of you.

[2306] Truly, I'm, Moni, I'm so proud of you.

[2307] Thank you.

[2308] It's hard.

[2309] He's so nice.

[2310] And he really likes me. Of course he does.

[2311] And I'm really trying to not let that be why.

[2312] Yeah.

[2313] And it is going against.

[2314] It is going against.

[2315] It's contrary.

[2316] It's literally contrary action.

[2317] It's so hard.

[2318] So we'll see.

[2319] But it is, it is, it's complex.

[2320] These things are so hardwired.

[2321] Orna, come on the show already.

[2322] Oh, get down here, Orna.

[2323] Have we reached out to Orna?

[2324] Don't brush your hair.

[2325] I follow her on Instagram now.

[2326] Oh, I do too.

[2327] There's very few posts, right?

[2328] Yeah, and like, not very many followers.

[2329] Oh, really?

[2330] Yeah.

[2331] Oh.

[2332] And then I had that Anderson Pack.

[2333] Post.

[2334] He wrote back, meet me at his pizza place.

[2335] That's in Korea Town.

[2336] Yeah.

[2337] I mean, I don't know that it'll happen.

[2338] But he responded, let's meet here.

[2339] And he tagged his restaurant.

[2340] Can I tell you the weirdest fantasy I had?

[2341] And this is actually for the first time in this fact check on message.

[2342] Okay.

[2343] Because John has worked with Leon Bridges, he's worked with everyone.

[2344] Like when you go through the list, it's so amazing.

[2345] I had this.

[2346] insane fantasy where John knew he was coming here.

[2347] So he happened to look at my Instagram.

[2348] I don't know why he would do that.

[2349] But let's just say he did.

[2350] And then he saw that.

[2351] And then he's like, oh, I'm really good friends with Anderson.

[2352] This will be hilarious to show up with him.

[2353] I had like a 1 %.

[2354] Sure.

[2355] It's like your camping.

[2356] Sure.

[2357] Right?

[2358] I understand.

[2359] It kind of made, I made it make sense as a possibility.

[2360] I know.

[2361] Fantasies.

[2362] Yeah.

[2363] They're tough because.

[2364] They're so fun, though.

[2365] They're fun, but man, do they send an expectation that...

[2366] Although it turned out great because he didn't show up with Anderson Pack and it was even better.

[2367] Yeah, I wouldn't, I mean, I would have not liked that because we need full time with both.

[2368] Exactly.

[2369] Totally.

[2370] And I wouldn't have wanted to miss out on what we experience today with him.

[2371] So special.

[2372] I just want to say one behind the scenes thing that happened post interview.

[2373] Yeah.

[2374] He and I were talking, well, the taxis score, of course.

[2375] Once we went out to take pictures, he was now playing the score from taxis.

[2376] He loves it.

[2377] And we were dancing a little bit.

[2378] And then on the walk to the car, I kind of forced him to listen to my favorite score of all time, Dave Gruson's score from Racing with the Moon.

[2379] I cannot recommend this movie enough for people.

[2380] It's young Sean Penn. He's beautiful in it.

[2381] He's such a beautiful boy in it.

[2382] And Nicholas Cage, like two my favorites.

[2383] It's such a good movie.

[2384] And the score is my very favorite score of all time, Dave Gruson.

[2385] So I played it for him when we were walking out.

[2386] He stopped in his tracks and he started doing the thing you saw on the dock.

[2387] He went to a place and then we were leaning on each other and I was starting to tear up.

[2388] And then we looked at each other and stared in each other's eyes while we were leaning.

[2389] That was kind of the tickling thing I was talking about.

[2390] Like we needed to get, we needed to be touching.

[2391] It was lovely.

[2392] Yeah.

[2393] That's lovely.

[2394] It was very fun.

[2395] What a moment.

[2396] Did you have what I had?

[2397] I told them about it, but did you have what I had when I was watching the doc?

[2398] Or it's just this deep sadness that I don't have that thing.

[2399] I do.

[2400] I am, yeah, I feel very jealous.

[2401] Like you can observe it, but I feel more, like, I don't see an astronaut go to space and feel like, oh, shit, I can't do that.

[2402] The way this thing is like, oh, that's there for the taking, and I didn't dedicate my life to figure out how to do it.

[2403] Oh, I don't have that.

[2404] I don't think there is a shot in hell that even if I started at age two, I would be able to do what he's doing.

[2405] That is a gift.

[2406] Yeah, yeah, of course.

[2407] It's not something earned.

[2408] But there are people interacting with him musically that aren't him.

[2409] Yeah.

[2410] Yet they can join the ride and participate without being him.

[2411] They can.

[2412] That guy playing the trombone while he was playing the piano, that guy was doing things for me. emotionally that we're on par with what John was doing, just like, oh, look at this thing they're sharing.

[2413] And then you hear that.

[2414] Oh, and then it's this.

[2415] Yeah, I think my number one love is music.

[2416] I'm listening to music all day, every day.

[2417] I have since I was a kid.

[2418] I just fucking love music.

[2419] I love every genre.

[2420] And I can't participate in it.

[2421] But it's okay.

[2422] I mean, I play along with the drums.

[2423] But there's a, but there's an ego version of it.

[2424] And then there's just, I'm, I'm missing out on something beautiful it's not my ego i'll get that way about i'll see someone stand up and i'm like shit i think i should be able to do that that's more my ego this is more like there's an emotional experience on planet earth that i can't have but instead of just taking the emotional experience it's an emotional experience to consume it have it infiltrate you and as opposed to but i want to participate like that's the part that I know you do, but you're getting pulled out of the actual thing by wishing you were a creator of it.

[2425] The recipient is as important as the creator of art. You're right.

[2426] I'm going to take one more run at it from a different angle.

[2427] Okay.

[2428] Because it's really important to me that, I don't know why.

[2429] It's really important to me that you don't think this is my ego talking.

[2430] But my very favorite thing to do in the world is to communicate.

[2431] That's what we're doing.

[2432] I love it.

[2433] I love connecting with people.

[2434] So it's just a version of communication that is even more impactful and more to the point and more emotional.

[2435] And I can't do it.

[2436] I don't speak the language.

[2437] I get it.

[2438] And I would love to because I love to communicate.

[2439] If I could sit with John and ping pong emotions out of this thing, I just, oh, that would be great.

[2440] Yeah.

[2441] But you talk to him in your own way.

[2442] So why, like, I just wonder if there's something about approval.

[2443] in there.

[2444] I really don't think that's it.

[2445] There are so many things.

[2446] Like, again, the stand -up thing I can admit to.

[2447] That's me wanting to prove my prowess or my abilities, test myself against something, see if I can hit the mark.

[2448] But this to me is what I said in the interview that I believe, which is like math explains physics in a way that language can't.

[2449] And similarly, music explains emotions in a way that I can't.

[2450] And I'd love to explain.

[2451] express my emotions with something like that.

[2452] Yeah, I understand.

[2453] I do understand that.

[2454] It feels like that would be very beautiful and efficient and true.

[2455] I'm just trying my best with these words, these dumb sounds I'm making with my tongue and teeth.

[2456] Yeah.

[2457] You know.

[2458] I do know.

[2459] Yeah.

[2460] I get it.

[2461] I feel that way a little bit.

[2462] I mean, I feel more when I watch it, when I see his hands on that piano and what is happening and what is getting channeled through his heart through his fingertips that then get to come into my ears and not only my ears my body like I get I get to experience it I just feel so deeply grateful that that exists on this earth that we get that yes I think the other element we're responding to that we know innately but we're not conscious of is we can see see, his brain's not doing that.

[2463] I mean, we know biomechanically, his brain is doing it.

[2464] But he's not conscious of what comes out when he is breaking up that power outage.

[2465] Yeah.

[2466] He has learned how to, I mean, it's flow, I guess, is the definition.

[2467] But he doesn't have to think about that.

[2468] Yeah.

[2469] That's to me what's so intriguing and appealing about it.

[2470] Yeah.

[2471] Even when talking, you run every sentence through your head in a nanosecond.

[2472] and before you let it come out of your mouth for good reason.

[2473] But this thing he does just pours out.

[2474] It's so pure.

[2475] It's just very pure.

[2476] We love it.

[2477] We love it.

[2478] I have a lot of muscle memory because when we do do these fact checks and you look down at your computer, you're about to tell me a fact.

[2479] I know.

[2480] And you keep looking at your computer and I keep having to remind myself, oh, there's no fact coming.

[2481] I keep doing that too.

[2482] I keep looking for facts and then remembering there aren't any.

[2483] I'm glad we're both in it.

[2484] Yeah, we are.

[2485] Well, it was very special, and we, ew.

[2486] I thought it was paper, but it's an onion.

[2487] Oh.

[2488] Onion paper.

[2489] We have one more Monday left of this year for this show.

[2490] After this episode, we have a Thursday episode, another Monday episode, one other Thursday episode.

[2491] I better start rehearsing my Elvis Christmas.

[2492] You got to get on our, we have a Christmas special coming your way.

[2493] But anyway, this is our second to last Monday of the year, and it's been quite a year.

[2494] I had a lot of, again, fun is not necessarily the word, but kind of going through all of our episodes to figure out our best up.

[2495] This year we're going to do a little bit different of a best of.

[2496] Fewer best of and longer.

[2497] Fewer, longer and spread over two days.

[2498] So Monday, we'll have our Monday best of.

[2499] That's a great idea.

[2500] Top 10.

[2501] Yeah.

[2502] I love that you're doing experts and Mondays.

[2503] And then Thursdays, we'll do our top 10 Thursday.

[2504] But I was piecing, putting this all together this week and figuring out who we were going to do in the sections.

[2505] And you felt good about it.

[2506] I'm very proud of the three of us and what we've built.

[2507] Very proud of it.

[2508] And I'm grateful for the year.

[2509] Me too.

[2510] You guys are impossibly great I don't know how the fuck We all found each other But it's like All three of our little zones That we're responsible for Is just at least I'll speak for you too Is being done absolutely perfectly It's crazy I'm astounded all the time Me too All right You too also We're gonna have to use this on the best of I'm gonna repeat ourselves Yeah I'm gonna cut all this Yeah Okay well you're about to leave To go on a little nightcation Yeah, a day trip to Vegas to go to the sphere, which I've been dying to go to.

[2511] I can't wait to hear you all about it.

[2512] Yeah.

[2513] So fun.

[2514] Sunday, bloody Sunday.

[2515] All right, I love you.

[2516] Love you.

[2517] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2518] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple.

[2519] podcasts.

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