Tom Hanks

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepherd, and I'm looking across from me and there's nothing but a sad empty seat.

[2] As miniature mouse, luxuriates in Europe.

[3] God bless her.

[4] We applaud her.

[5] Today we have a guest, Tom Hanks.

[6] Tom Hanks owns a string of muffler shops around the Midwest.

[7] We thought we'd have them in as an expert because a lot of people end up replacing their exhaust systems.

[8] And we thought, why not have an expert?

[9] Right, Rob?

[10] Yeah.

[11] Yeah, people know I'm from.

[12] Yeah, that's primarily what Tom Hanks is known from.

[13] And also, whatever.

[14] He was in Forrest Gomp and Castaway and Saving Private Ryan and Big and stuff.

[15] But at any rate, he has a new movie out, Pinocchio.

[16] And not only is he in Pinocchio.

[17] He plays Geppetto in Pinocchio.

[18] And almost as as as exciting as him being in it is that it's directed by Robert Zumechus, who's just one of the all -time greatest, Forrest Gump.

[19] These two pair together well.

[20] All that to say, We got to talk to Tom Hanks, improbable, impossible, and incredibly fun.

[21] What a nice, sweet guy.

[22] Rob, were you shocked with how gregarious he was?

[23] He was very nice.

[24] Yeah, and he called you Rob many times.

[25] Robby, I think, maybe.

[26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[27] I was in the attic by myself while you both were gone.

[28] Oh, right.

[29] And he was talking directly to you saying Robbie.

[30] Yeah, it doesn't happen a lot.

[31] What a gentleman.

[32] Please enjoy Tom Hanks.

[33] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[34] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[35] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[36] You know, other podcasts just give me one of these.

[37] That's a gift.

[38] You know, Rob, we really should have armchair expert inscribed on those because it is a parting gift.

[39] What would be wrong with a coffee cup or a tote bag?

[40] that says I'm sure I'm not.

[41] We have coffee cups.

[42] We do have mugs and some of them cost $2 ,000.

[43] So we'll send you one and you should be very pleased.

[44] Tom, you're laughing.

[45] That's a reality.

[46] So we accidentally made a batch of left -handed mugs.

[47] They're not for sale on the website.

[48] So we had extras and we thought, well, let's just as a joke, we'll put them for sale for $2 ,000.

[49] Did I do, left -handed mugs?

[50] I have some left -handed pens that I sell for a few bucks in this.

[51] Maybe we could horse trade.

[52] I have some left -handed headphones.

[53] I've got some left -handed sunglasses.

[54] So lo and behold, we've sold many of these $2 ,000 left -handed mugs.

[55] And, of course, we have some ethics, so we're like, we can't keep that money.

[56] So now it's become this thing anytime someone buys someone, then call them and say, what do you want us to donate this to?

[57] Ah, there you go, yeah.

[58] It all got figured out.

[59] But we'll just give you one, and you don't have to donate anything.

[60] I'll buy one, and it can go directly to the Dax Shepard Rolex Fund.

[61] Oh.

[62] That's so kind.

[63] You're so kind.

[64] And the Monica Padman Kelly Bagg Foundation.

[65] Oh, my God.

[66] Buy all of them, please.

[67] Monica, did he just strike gold?

[68] This Kelly bag a thing I should know about?

[69] It's a fancy bag.

[70] Tom's in the know.

[71] You said I have an expert that lives at home with me. So I know some things.

[72] You know most of the things, I'm pretty sure.

[73] I'm going to catch you up to speed.

[74] So, Dax, yes, birth name came from a popular book in the 70s called The Adventures by Harold Robbins.

[75] It's a very smutty book.

[76] that my folks read.

[77] Not to be confused with the carpetbaggers by Harold Robbins.

[78] Harold Robbins was a guy who wrote, quote, unquote, racy novels.

[79] I never read a one of them, and they were all turned into horrible movies.

[80] Not to take away from anybody that was in them, but they're kind of like pulpy film.

[81] Joan Collins, I think she was in some.

[82] Robert Ryan might have been in one.

[83] But was Dax a character that was kind of like a Don Draper of his day, a loathsome, good -looking dude?

[84] He fucked.

[85] I'll just sum it up quickly.

[86] by saying this dude couldn't stay out of the bed.

[87] There you go.

[88] Literally, DAX is on your birth certificate?

[89] Yeah, it's hard to believe, isn't it?

[90] Especially given my occupation.

[91] Like I always say, on the playground in Michigan, it was just a target.

[92] But now it seems very convenient.

[93] Now, there was an actor by the name of Dak Rambo.

[94] Do you remember him?

[95] He's a very good -looking guy.

[96] He was kind of like a Richard Jekle type.

[97] Before Rambo became the thing that Rambo then became.

[98] I would just love to meet the guy.

[99] Hey, Dak Rambo.

[100] So, okay.

[101] That's going to be my new hotel anonymous, you know, co -name.

[102] Alias.

[103] Dax Rambo, I think I may have to go by that now.

[104] Let's just say if you have a young son and you name him Dack Rambo, you're betting on the fact he'll be 6 '4 and can pull that name off.

[105] That's a huge swing.

[106] That's like a Johnny Cash song, you know, boy named Dak. It's the opposite of boy named Sue.

[107] He's 5 '2, you know, very slight.

[108] He has a wispy beard, doesn't have to shave every day.

[109] My dad named Nick Dax, and so I had to become a killer.

[110] Now, I see that you're in a hotel room.

[111] Are you on the road?

[112] That was the other thing I kind of wanted to bring up to speed, so you weren't too off kilter.

[113] So, yeah, me and my childhood best friend are in a tour bus driving around the country, but I needed really good internet to talk to you.

[114] So now I'm in Birmingham, Alabama at a hotel.

[115] So I thank you for the shower.

[116] You gave me an excuse to get inside.

[117] Smoking on into Birmingham, as the Chuck Berry, a Promise Land song would point.

[118] Smoking right in.

[119] into Birmingham on a Greyhound bus.

[120] Listen, we're perfectly into my first question for you because I just watched you on Seth Meyer and your ability to pull up these random things is pretty unparalleled.

[121] There's so many pop culture icon references.

[122] And I wonder, do you feel them dissipating?

[123] Are you still in total command of them?

[124] I turned 66 this year and I think this happens as you go back to what is essentially your core rope memories like some ancient hard drive that just goes down.

[125] I can still sing the Nestle's Quick commercial.

[126] I saw on TV when I was four years old.

[127] Will you do it?

[128] Nand -E -S -T -L -E -S -L -E -S -L -L -E -S -L -L -E -S makes the very best chocolate.

[129] They had this little hound -dog puppet that you could hear his lips clacking when he, you know, Nany -S -T -L -L -E -S.

[130] We were always pissed off because mom got either Oval Tene or Nes -C -Quick, and what we wanted was Bosco.

[131] We wanted the chocolate syrup.

[132] that was called Bosco.

[133] So, first of all, ADD, attention deficit disorder, which I've turned into a lucrative living, which I believe Dak Shepard has as well.

[134] And then I knew what time it was, by what was on TV.

[135] When Love of Life was over, I had to have my clothes on and I had to go to school.

[136] When Star Trek came on, I had to go upstairs and have dinner with the folks.

[137] It's like when you would sit around with your grandparents or anybody who was in their 60s, they'd start talking about Fibber McGee and Molly or Allen's, Valley, and these were huge radio shows that they listened to when they were kids and they were bits.

[138] You'd go into a closet.

[139] Oh, watch out for that closet, McGee.

[140] And you say, what is that a reference to?

[141] Oh, it's Prima McGee and Molly.

[142] Every time they open the closet, all the stuff would come out of it.

[143] So, yeah, I got them.

[144] I got too many of them.

[145] Ask me the lyrics of a Duolipa song.

[146] I can't tell you.

[147] I have no idea.

[148] You're not supposed to know that.

[149] Nobody knows that.

[150] All right.

[151] I'm still proud that I can sing.

[152] I'm going to knock you out.

[153] Mama said, knock you out.

[154] That's how current I am.

[155] By the way, that might mark the tail end of your imprint period.

[156] I'm not kidding.

[157] You were a healthy age when that came out, right?

[158] You were 40 or something.

[159] You do not want to sit around with me, and if you go on YouTube and start bringing up those three -and -a -half -hour compilations of old commercials or opening credits from old television shows, I remember them all, and I just disappear.

[160] I take off into a stratosphere and takes me forever to come back.

[161] What did I say on Seth Myers?

[162] That was impressive at all.

[163] Oh, there was a rapid fire list of things.

[164] You were talking about the Panthenon, then you were talking about the iterations of it.

[165] You were just blasting.

[166] It was like seven or eight factoids in a row, and I was like, how long can he maintain this pace?

[167] I get worked up for a TV show.

[168] You know, you want to put on her show.

[169] Can you imagine, okay, in this day and age, Have you ever gone on any TV show, a chat show, a late night show, in which they have not just tried to keep it going as fast as humanly possible.

[170] You get jazzed worked up, and you just go out and try to talk in an easy -going cadence, man. You're gone.

[171] They cut to a commercial before you're...

[172] I don't think people understand that a starter pistol goes off as they come back from commercial.

[173] And, yeah, if you don't get this story in, in the next three and a half minutes and plug your movie, well, then you miss the train.

[174] They are not conversations.

[175] performances, although I will say that Seth Myers does put on a pretty easy going chat show.

[176] He and Jimmy Kim will do, I must say.

[177] That was the appeal to do this for me is like, I love doing late -night talk shows, as I'm sure you do.

[178] It is a performance.

[179] I think that might be the thing I'm better at than acting, so I like doing them.

[180] But at the same time, you're not learning a thing about me. Oh, dear Lord, no. Yeah, you're not getting any sense of actually who I am.

[181] And then in this medium, there's just the unlimited space.

[182] That's kind of the appeal of it for me. I can't imagine you've done a ton of podcasts, have you?

[183] No, I don't view these as work.

[184] These are just protected conversation.

[185] If you and I and Monica was going to go and Monica was going to buy us lunch, because you have an expense account.

[186] I'll treat you.

[187] The three of us were just going to sit around and chat.

[188] That would essentially be worthy of podcasts.

[189] Yes.

[190] You're right.

[191] Talk shows are fun to do, but I have been filled with such self -loathing on the drive home because I didn't think I was funny enough.

[192] or I blew a thing or I didn't live up to the white hot four hours of the segment producers conversation that you had prior to it.

[193] Well, surely you've had the experience where you schedule a call prior to being on the talk show and you talk with the segment producer and they're asking you random stuff like, oh, I saw you went on vacation.

[194] And then you start telling a story and by God you crush this story.

[195] Crush it.

[196] The dude is in stitches and then you think, wow, I'm not even on TV yet wait until I'm in a suit saying this.

[197] And then you do it, and God, even if it's fine, you can't help but compare it to that telephone conversation.

[198] It just never gets better than that phone call.

[199] It's like we were better in the matinee than we were in the evening performance.

[200] You guys, I have a hard reality.

[201] I could be wrong, but the guy who's doing the pre -interview with you on the phone, of course he's going to laugh.

[202] He's so excited to be talking to you and talking to you.

[203] They're hardcore professionals.

[204] I can go back.

[205] Mary Connolly, Maria Pope.

[206] There's a number of others that I could bring up.

[207] I have to say, I've been laughing so hard with them for four hours on the phone.

[208] And then they say, well, we think we got enough.

[209] And I said, no, no, I want another two hours tomorrow because I'm only going to be on your show for seven minutes.

[210] And five, six hours of prep is not enough time.

[211] But part of it is because they are hilarious too.

[212] Yes.

[213] I've never chatted with a segment producer that didn't just crush me on the back end of their give and take as well.

[214] Yeah, there's even been times.

[215] I don't know if you've had this.

[216] They'll say something funnier in response.

[217] Then I get self -consciously.

[218] Are they dropping like a rewrite or a punch -up?

[219] Can I work that into this bit?

[220] Can I steal that?

[221] Now, let me ask you a question, Monica and Dex.

[222] I have one, literally a single example of when I was watching a talk show and saw somebody that was so fabulous, I thought, I have to see the movie that this person is in.

[223] Have you ever done that?

[224] I'll tell you mine, but it's literally only one time.

[225] So I'm out there flopping around like a trout in the bottom of a canoe.

[226] saying, please, please, please, please go see Larry Crown.

[227] And nobody does.

[228] All you can do is say, well, what are you going to do?

[229] It tucks a shot.

[230] And actually, there's an anomaly in the chat show process anyway that no one is really paying attention to the clip.

[231] On Conan O 'Brien, I saw an unknown at the time to me, Jack Black, talking about high fidelity.

[232] And he was so brand new and sparkly shiny.

[233] I'm going to see high fidelity based on this guy named Jack Black.

[234] And I did, and I've been a Jack Black fan ever since.

[235] But that's the only time.

[236] Well, yes, I have the same argument, right?

[237] Which is they may love you.

[238] They may even be like, that guy was great.

[239] I'd love to see him at the mall.

[240] I'd even pay five bucks to go chat with him at the mall.

[241] Pay to see him walk across the street.

[242] But...

[243] This movie is, I don't think I can make time.

[244] Yeah, you watch a clip, and ultimately, you're judging it based on the material, as maybe you should.

[245] So you can't outperform this terrible clip you bring, if that's the case.

[246] There was a time you had to set up the clip.

[247] Now they just show the clip.

[248] You want to set up this clip for us?

[249] Yes, yes, I do.

[250] What has happened is a monster has come up from the deep, and this is a scene in which me and my girlfriend, who I have broken up with, because I fell in love with her sister, or having a conversation in my vintage Chevy.

[251] And we are out by the reservoir.

[252] We're not aware that the monster...

[253] You know, you can't set up a clip.

[254] Show the clip.

[255] Yes, here's a clip from our movie.

[256] It comes about the 45 -minute mark.

[257] That's it.

[258] You just nailed exactly why they got rid of that, and it was probably right for them to do so, they don't know when to start a story.

[259] This is probably the biggest hiccup people have just in general.

[260] My wife, I always make fun of her, she starts a story about who she saw at the grocery store this morning.

[261] And all of a sudden, we're back in her elementary school.

[262] I saw, you know, Jen, right?

[263] We went to school and so who I went to high school with.

[264] You know, after I came out of element and I go, baby, baby, you're eight years old right now.

[265] What happened at the grocery store?

[266] I'm the same thing.

[267] If I go to the grocery store with any of my kids or grandkids and we turned down one aisle, I literally said, now this was the aisle that the Bosco used to be on.

[268] My mom would get the Oval teen, and that would make me sad because we all want to...

[269] And next thing we know, Papu, what year is it?

[270] Can you tell me what year it is right now?

[271] Okay, I got a manhandle you for one second.

[272] All right.

[273] Russell me to the ground, kicking and screaming.

[274] I kind of want to give a testimonial about who you are outside of this show.

[275] And then I want to psychoan analyze you about the recent nostalgia.

[276] Hit it.

[277] Go ahead.

[278] Okay, here's the testimonial.

[279] I had done a movie with your wife, Rita.

[280] And I think I must have told her one of my Schwarzenegger stories.

[281] I can't even remember what story I told her.

[282] But then apparently she had related to you, so then at least a year after I had worked with Rita, Chris and I were walking out of some event.

[283] We were all waiting for a valet.

[284] You too were waiting for valet.

[285] I was thrilled.

[286] It was the first time I had ever seen you in real life.

[287] And I, you know, was even nervous.

[288] And then you walked directly up to me and you said, hi, Dax, I'm Tom.

[289] I heard this story about Arnold Schwarzening.

[290] Would you tell it?

[291] I mean, talk about if I could have drafted my interaction with you.

[292] Not only do you know my name, already know I have a good story.

[293] You're asking me now to tell it.

[294] And so I just want to say off camera, off screen, off podcast, that's who Tom Hanks is.

[295] And I've had a couple other interactions with you where you're that way.

[296] Almost like, I don't know how you have the capacity for that.

[297] Look, I was waiting for a car, man. I was waiting.

[298] Like, I'm like, does this guy have an earpiece in?

[299] I said to read it, what is that guy's name again?

[300] No, no. I remember she came home sending your braises, said you were hilarious.

[301] Because we all just, judge all movies by how good the hang time is.

[302] Well, that's all it's about, right?

[303] Yeah, it's all about the hang.

[304] Who's there?

[305] Who's funny?

[306] Who's great?

[307] Because when you're working, you know, your eyes roll up in the back of your head and all you can do is try to tell the truth.

[308] But all the rest of that is, what was it like at baggage claim?

[309] Oh, there was such a great guy at baggage claim.

[310] He was, oh, you're just waiting.

[311] I can't remember what the story is, but you had some killer, Arnold Schwarzenegger calling me to ask me if I would come bring him out on stage at some rallies because I'd do an impersonation of him.

[312] phone.

[313] I said, oh my God, I'm so flattered.

[314] For the governor thing?

[315] When he was the governor, yeah, it was please hold for the governor when the phone call came.

[316] And I said, I'm so flattered I'd love to do it.

[317] And by the way, I'm not anymore.

[318] But at this time, I was a libertarian.

[319] I said, but I can't come out and bring you up for these Republican fundraisers.

[320] I'm a libertarian.

[321] And he goes, me too.

[322] All of the new is a libertarian.

[323] See, now right there.

[324] That is a hilarious story.

[325] I got to go.

[326] My Tesla is here.

[327] But good to see you, that.

[328] Okay, so that's my testimonial about you as a person.

[329] And I've bumped into you a few times over the years, and you're just so fucking generous and nice, and I don't know how you remember everyone.

[330] She says hello, by the way.

[331] Please tell her, I love her.

[332] I have delivered unto you her best.

[333] So it's interesting, you and I, it doesn't really matter what you achieve or I do.

[334] We're married, right?

[335] And both of our wives sing, and they often sing at the same event.

[336] So then you and I are inevitably at these things.

[337] I love them so much, man. When you go with your wife, the most you have to do is wear a laminate and carry her lip gloss.

[338] That's all you have to do.

[339] That's the only work that is expected of you.

[340] You get a free snack backstage.

[341] They'll take you out to your seat.

[342] You don't have to work.

[343] It's fantastic.

[344] I'm asking Rita, hey, book more dates, would you?

[345] So that I can, you know, hang around in the bus and be backstage and eat with the crew and go see the shows.

[346] If you're like me, there's the added element that if my wife did improv, I'd hate it, because I want to be doing the improv.

[347] I can't sing.

[348] I have no illusions that I'll ever be up there singing.

[349] So when I watch her sing, I'm also not.

[350] filled with envy that I don't get to perform that night.

[351] It's just like, oh, this is your thing, and then I actually cry every time she sings, because I'm like, I don't understand how you can do that.

[352] That's like a different realm that you can do.

[353] I can comprehend it.

[354] I once asked her, she was going to perform at a fundraiser in a hockey arena in Indiana with Sugar Land, I think.

[355] I said, oh, man, are you nervous?

[356] And she said, nervous.

[357] She said, I can't wait to get out there.

[358] She became like this performance beast.

[359] And by the way, I'll sing her praise.

[360] She's got a record dropping, a CD dropping next month, duets with Smokey Robinson, Tim McGraw, Elvis Costello, Jackson Brown, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holley.

[361] Let's keep going with that.

[362] It's a fabulous record from songs from the 70s.

[363] That's awesome.

[364] And she'll be up promoting the Dickens out of that too.

[365] And I hope she does a lot of dates, so I can hang around.

[366] backstage.

[367] Yeah, yeah.

[368] Okay, I'm not ready to psychoanalyze you yet, but I am ready to suggest, or at least ask you if this crosses your mind.

[369] We've talked to a couple of people.

[370] They're like enormously successful.

[371] A magician, there's a handful.

[372] David Copperfield?

[373] When you say a magician.

[374] Yeah, he's the one.

[375] He's about as successful as you're going to get.

[376] That's right.

[377] I think he has the record for all -time tickets sold in any kind of thing, period.

[378] But he has recreated this comic book and magic shop in Las Vegas to every single detail.

[379] It's the one he would go into as a kid, and I got curious talking to him.

[380] There's some bizarre aspect, and I know it's dangerous for you to even talk about this, because minimally everyone thinks you have a perfect life.

[381] Tom Hanks should wake up in the morning and fucking leap out of bed.

[382] Like, life's not one damn thing after another.

[383] You don't have to brush your teeth.

[384] Yeah, I was on Seth Myers, so therefore I'm doing armchair experts.

[385] I'm coasting from now on, baby.

[386] Just living the dream.

[387] But he recreated this whole thing, and I said, you know, I have a similar nostalgia.

[388] and I wonder if any of it's about the ride, the fantasy of the life is really, really intoxicating.

[389] It's really, really fun, and it's worth pursuing, and it's worth dedicating your whole life to.

[390] And then if you're lucky enough to get it, you can enjoy it and you can be grateful for it.

[391] All those things can be true, but yet it's never going to be what the fantasy was.

[392] And it's almost like I think David has created this weird loop where he can step inside that magician's shop, remember the fantasy, and it can almost help him feel.

[393] that he's living the fantasy.

[394] Does that make any sense?

[395] Yeah, I think what you're saying is the reason we did this in the first place back when, honestly, half a tank of gas and being able to pour cheap Chinese food a couple times a week was the luxury, was to go back to when it is that mindless instinct that you just pursue naturally.

[396] Everything else just melts away and you're doing it because it's a blast.

[397] You can't imagine doing it for a living professionally.

[398] And be looking at other people do it and think, man, I don't know how they did that.

[399] wish I could get up to that level.

[400] And so every job, every year, every day, ends up being a pursuit of something that you haven't yet figured out about the job that you do.

[401] I would imagine that David Copperfield is probably eight years old going into a magic shop, learning that if you squeeze the sponge bunnies in one hand, it looks like they're born when you do the distraction kind of thing.

[402] And it's that same sense of wonder.

[403] Have you been watching the Paul Newman join Woodward, Doc?

[404] No, I'm saving that.

[405] Oh, God, I'm so bummed.

[406] I thought this was going to be the juiciest thing for us to talk about.

[407] I made one movie with Mr. Paul Newman.

[408] It took a bit for me to make peace with that fact.

[409] I'm in a movie with Paul Newman.

[410] Yeah, did you have imposter syndrome at that point?

[411] Oh, absolutely.

[412] He gave everybody this great gift because it just so happened that the movie was called Road to Perdition.

[413] Sam Mendez?

[414] Yeah, yeah, yeah, San Mendez.

[415] Paul gave a gift to everybody, because the very first day, the very first day, was a day with like 60 extras, and we're supposed to be at an Irish wake, and everybody's dancing and eating pie and doing all this kind of stuff.

[416] And we shot it in Chicago, and Paul Newman is in the scene, and you cannot.

[417] Not think about it at all time.

[418] No, there he is.

[419] He's very quiet.

[420] You know, he just comes in, and he's the lowest maintenance guy you've ever come across, and easy to talk to.

[421] And he had to make an Irish toast.

[422] He had to lift up a body.

[423] of something and say a few words in an Irish wakey kind of like proposing a toast kind of way.

[424] There wasn't a soul on the soundstage that wasn't thinking, this is it.

[425] This is the first scene, the first take of the movie that I am in with Paul Newman.

[426] I am going to remember this moment for the rest of my life.

[427] And he did it.

[428] And there was a moment of silence.

[429] And then he looked at us all and he said, The first day you feel kind of self -conscious, don't you?

[430] And everybody was released from any sort of bondage of honor that we were feeling.

[431] And that was the guy.

[432] I would probably say I could talk about these individual moments I have with Paul Newman for the rest of any podcast.

[433] You had some into your brain.

[434] I will tell you this one, and this is an extraordinary thing.

[435] I don't know when they work together, but the cinematographer Conrad Hall and Paul Newman saying hello to each other after how many decades together in this business.

[436] Conrad Hall was a very gentle, soft, soul man. To see him say, hello, Paul, and have Paul say, ah, Connie, you know?

[437] Conrad Hall and Paul Newman, not just giants, but giants who left footprints in lava that will remain for the rest of time.

[438] You have those moments, and that's when I felt like David Copperfield in a magic shop.

[439] To be here doing this and being trusted just to follow my instincts and try to keep up or just try to remember my lines in the same scene with Paul Newman was just pinch you.

[440] When I was thinking about if you were watching it, I guess I was imagining you watching Paul Newman, even though you're just talking about him right now, right?

[441] He is a mythical creature.

[442] He occupies some space in our mind that is the fantasy still.

[443] And I was imagining you watching him thinking like that his life was somehow different than yours.

[444] In Road to Perdition, you were Tom Hanks already.

[445] It wasn't like you were 18.

[446] I've been Tom Hanks since I was three years old, Monica.

[447] But like you're saying Paul Newman, you're Tom Hanks.

[448] I understand that.

[449] I mean, I remember seeing Brian Keith, a family affair walking down Broadway once.

[450] And I thought, my God, I yelled.

[451] That's Brian K. You know, and scared to live in daylines out of him because he was already Brian Keith.

[452] In The Hang, which is crucial to making any movie, everybody says, did you ever not have a good time on a movie?

[453] No, you can probably make a hang a pretty good time.

[454] The work is always the work.

[455] Work is a constant.

[456] It's hard.

[457] You have to forget everything.

[458] You got to do it.

[459] But the hang, that's actually malleable.

[460] You can actually shape that in the course of the day, particularly if you're in the 17th hour of a 20 -hour shoot.

[461] You can actually turn it into a thing.

[462] It might even be where you feel most powerful.

[463] You can steer a hang as well as you could ever steer any scenes.

[464] So to leave the scene that's scary and then to walk into the hang where you actually are really competent.

[465] You can host a hang without a doubt.

[466] And we knew that we were going to be working a lot of late nights on Angels and Demons down at Old Hollywood Park.

[467] We were going to be working until 3 o 'clock in the morning of it.

[468] So I set up a blackjack table.

[469] He just played blackjack.

[470] Oh, yes.

[471] You know, we put up some Christmas lights and the teamsters came by.

[472] It wasn't real money involved, but we gave away a bicycle to anybody who officially won the most fake money.

[473] So that was something to do.

[474] But Paul, let me go back to Paul.

[475] There is a moment where if you are smart.

[476] You steer the conversation towards the daily life that somebody had back in, quote -unquote, the day.

[477] Because I know that Paul, you know, he was in the actor's studio, what have, he did live television, much of which I had seen.

[478] He was in the original live television broadcast to bang the drums slowly.

[479] And so I asked a couple of questions about live TV.

[480] And then I asked questions about working in Hollywood in the business in like the late 1950s, early 1960s.

[481] because that was the last gasp of the Golden Age of Hollywood.

[482] Television had been around.

[483] It completely altered the work structure.

[484] Movies did not work as long as they did.

[485] A lot of people left working on movies to work on things like Ozzie and Harriet because they got more hours because TV was not union.

[486] But the studios, Fox, MGM, Paramount, they could not afford to pay overtime.

[487] So movies wrapped at 5 o 'clock.

[488] Oh, wow.

[489] I didn't know that.

[490] Everybody had a cocktail in their hand at 4.

[491] 30.

[492] That's just the way it was.

[493] And there was not a shot that could be gotten before 9 a .m. Because the lights and the makeup were so heavy.

[494] And if you were in a movie with a beautiful actress, that lady got her shots first thing in the morning because after lunch, they're a little tired.

[495] So a workday for Paul Newman in a movie in the 1950s began at 8 o 'clock.

[496] And he was maybe in the first shot, but probably not at 9 a .m. And he was done at 5.

[497] And he said it was fantastic.

[498] Oh, wow.

[499] Because you would be at the studio.

[500] All movies were made in Hollywood on the sound stages.

[501] And you would be out of your costume at 10 minutes after five.

[502] He said, you'd go home and have dinner with the kids.

[503] And as they're getting off ready for bed, he and the wife would be putting on their fancy clothes to go have a lovely dinner with friends at Ciro's or Romanoffs.

[504] Oh, wow.

[505] Yeah, what I'd like.

[506] A dinner party somewhere in town.

[507] And they would all be home at 11 o 'clock at night with a number of cocktails inside them.

[508] And he didn't have to be at work until 8 a .m. He described this to us, and I just thought, oh.

[509] But look what he was talking about.

[510] You can talk about the work and the director and all this kind of stuff till the cows come home.

[511] And at the end of the day, that's not the stuff that fills up your life.

[512] What fills up your life is, what time did you get off work?

[513] Yeah.

[514] How hot were the lights and stuff like that?

[515] And Paul was extremely giving on that.

[516] And one secret about the hang.

[517] is that you do not come around to the big hits.

[518] Like I could have said, hey, Paul, when you did the sting, did you know, blah, blah, blah.

[519] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[520] Where did you shoot that scene where you and Bob jumped off the cliff and yelled, oh, shit, as you're landing in the river because Bob can't swim?

[521] What was that movie you made, Casey in the Sunshine Band?

[522] What was that?

[523] Oh, no, no, Butch Cassidy in the Sun.

[524] Butch Cassidy.

[525] Although, can you imagine, Paul, is Casey?

[526] Why do you think that is?

[527] Because I have a theory on that as to why you don't ask about, Butch Cassidy?

[528] I think it's because it's just been talked about.

[529] And when you're off there servicing the business and you're in the grasp of the entertainment industrial complex, that's all they want to do is talk about the hits.

[530] Talk about the stuff that we can all relate to.

[531] I was going to argue that when you ask him to walk you through a famous scene with he and Redford, what you're really asking him to do is to be the movie star Paul Newman.

[532] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[533] You're asking him to try to fill your fantasy that that moment was magic.

[534] on some ethereal level that he probably experienced and he can relay to you, but that's not really possible.

[535] He's just a dude who had to dip his face in ice every morning to get to work because of those long nights at Sardis.

[536] That's in the docks.

[537] Funny you should say, you know what I learned from Paul Newman?

[538] And I use it to this day.

[539] First thing in the makeup trailer, your face in a bucket of ice water.

[540] Oh, wow.

[541] You do it?

[542] This is what I heard.

[543] I didn't ask him about it, but I knew that he loved beer.

[544] He liked Coors Bank with beer, and I had dinner with him.

[545] He always ordered a beer.

[546] And he wasn't a chugger.

[547] He wasn't like, oh, thank God.

[548] Down, you know, like half a logger.

[549] Well, hold on.

[550] I got to interject because it's in the dock, and he is untraditionally candid about it.

[551] He was an alcoholic.

[552] He had to negotiate with Joanne that he would stop drinking hard alcohol after he lived in their driveway for three weeks because he was out of the house.

[553] That's another great thing about the dock.

[554] He was so fucking candid.

[555] Like, way more than I, I ever knew.

[556] He would tell you I had no idea about sex until Joanne, like, educated me on sex.

[557] This whole sex symbol thing, I don't even have that.

[558] I'm so bland.

[559] She gave that to me. He's so candid.

[560] It's wild.

[561] He did tell me that the stuff at the actor's studio, he said, oh, went right over my head.

[562] Never knew what they were talking about.

[563] Yeah.

[564] And I said, what?

[565] But in the photographs, Paul, you're all leading there forward.

[566] You all have those black turtleneck sweaters on.

[567] You all look so fascinating.

[568] No, I had no idea.

[569] I thought a guy was pretty good, and they destroyed him.

[570] And I just went up and I was trying to learn my lines.

[571] They said I was great.

[572] I didn't know what I was doing.

[573] Yeah, and he's so honest about that.

[574] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[575] What's up, guys?

[576] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[577] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[578] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[579] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[580] And I don't mean just friends.

[581] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[582] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[583] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[584] We've all been there.

[585] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[586] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[587] Like the unexplainable death, of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[588] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[589] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[590] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[591] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[592] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[593] Okay, so he drank banquet beer, but you should know that was the end result of multi -week negotiation.

[594] Sipping of it, okay, that's good.

[595] Now, I heard that he did two things, one, he traveled with a portable steam room in order to sweat out the beer the next morning.

[596] Yeah, sure.

[597] If you are a beer drinker, you know, it comes out whether you sweat it or not.

[598] Whether you're getting in a steam room or not.

[599] Out it comes, man. And everybody said, well, you had a night last night.

[600] Why?

[601] Because I can smell the hops coming out of you.

[602] But the other thing was tighten up that face, man, and that is your head in a bucket of ice.

[603] And yes, I do.

[604] To absolutely no avail.

[605] Because no matter how long I hold my breath in that freezing cold bucket of polar water, I do not come out looking like Paul Newman.

[606] I still look exactly like me. So, yes, the thing we're circling is that the fantasy life, we start trying to pursue, we come to recognize doesn't exist in ourselves.

[607] but maybe we still think it exists for other people.

[608] That's interesting.

[609] But I will say, as much as I was leaning towards like, oh, yeah, he's just a dude as well.

[610] Also not.

[611] Again, he's an admitted alcoholic.

[612] Somebody guy had a six -pack until he was 70 years old.

[613] His face isn't like mine looked like when I drank.

[614] It looked like I'd sleep at the bottom of the Mississippi River.

[615] Like, no ice is going to get that thing to unswell.

[616] So he did have some superpowers.

[617] Oh, yeah.

[618] We know people who are blessed in that way that are just like, look at you.

[619] How's it feel?

[620] You haven't done a sit -up in your life, and yet I could scrub my t -shirt on your washboard abs.

[621] Where the hell do you get?

[622] People are like that.

[623] What are you going to do?

[624] Are they, or are they secretly working out?

[625] They're secretly working out.

[626] They're all liars.

[627] Yep.

[628] I don't know.

[629] I don't think Paul had time.

[630] You can't fake those eyes.

[631] No. Oh.

[632] You can't fake that chin.

[633] Look, you can protect it.

[634] Anytime everybody says, oh, you're looking around.

[635] I'm maintaining the temple, baby.

[636] I'm just maintaining the temple.

[637] That's all I'm trying to do.

[638] So just to put a bow on this, my hunch is you're smart enough and I'm sure intellectually you comprehend your position in Hollywood's history.

[639] And then I'm guessing identity -wise, there must be an intellectual recognition of that and then zero emotional recognition of that.

[640] Or zero, I'm Paul Newman.

[641] You don't get up in the morning, look in the mirror and go, fucking, I'm one of the Paul Newman's.

[642] I think the truest analogy is baseball.

[643] I don't think there's a man in the world who doesn't think.

[644] know, if I could hit the curb ball, I could have had a career.

[645] I could have got into AA, you know, and if I had worked on it, it's not like hockey where you can say, man, I would have been a great hockey player, but I just couldn't skate.

[646] You know, everybody thinks that they can, we played ball when we were a kid, we get it.

[647] But you can't.

[648] And even the vast majority of guys who play major league baseball are not going to be the greats.

[649] But I remember, I knew it was Pete Rose was on first base.

[650] Did he play first base for Cincinnati or maybe the Phillies?

[651] Yeah, I believe Cincinnati.

[652] I know very little about baseball.

[653] I'm going to say somebody hit a fantastic single.

[654] Let's just say it was Carlton Fisk.

[655] It was some other great.

[656] But Carlton Fisk lobes a single.

[657] It's the fourth inning of something like that.

[658] And there is Pete Rose, one of the greatest ball players in history.

[659] And there is Carlton Fisk, one of the greatest ball players in history.

[660] Fiske is on first as a runner.

[661] Pete Rose is playing first.

[662] You know what they're doing?

[663] They're chatting.

[664] Hey, man. Heck of a stroke.

[665] Yeah, a pretty good game going like, man, this is a great game.

[666] Beautiful night.

[667] Now, they're supposed to be adversaries, but they know that they love this game that they play.

[668] My joke is always, hey, if this was communist Russia, I'd still be doing this.

[669] And these great baseball players, despite who they're playing for, there is a moment out there when I think every single one of them in between pitches, just think, hot damn, I'm playing ball for a living.

[670] I've had so many friends, peers of mine, on a similar rung in the ladder, not able to enjoy even a second of it because they're on the Bulls, they're not Michael Jordan.

[671] And I'm always like, but you're in the MBA.

[672] Don't miss it.

[673] Don't fucking miss it because you're so focused on the fact that you're not Jordan.

[674] I think it's pretty common.

[675] I take them by the hand.

[676] I say, okay, you're working for four days on this movie.

[677] That's it.

[678] I know.

[679] But if you come in and really clock these four days, your job is the IT guy who is a nerd.

[680] Okay, that's your role.

[681] I saw you in your commercial and you're pretty good.

[682] And you're thinking, oh, man, I wish to think of it.

[683] Okay, first of all, if you crush this right now, Somebody out there is going to say, get me that IT nerd who is in that movie.

[684] That's one thing.

[685] That's always the potential that lays here.

[686] Someone can see how brilliant you are.

[687] Now, I'm going to take you by the hand, and I'm going to take you to this little truck, and you get to have anything you want to eat that is in this truck.

[688] You can make a sandwich.

[689] You can have a popsicle.

[690] Here's some chicken salad.

[691] Look at these protein bars.

[692] Do you like M &Ms?

[693] Here's as many M &Ms that you want to eat.

[694] Do you not realize you get this for the next four days?

[695] and no one is going to charge you.

[696] And in fact, you can say to that guy right there, do you have any strawberry yogurt?

[697] And you know what we'll be here tomorrow because you asked for it?

[698] Strawberry yogurt.

[699] Dude, you're in the circus for a while.

[700] Now, I did an episode of The Love Boat.

[701] Oh, believe me, it's on my list of things I wanted to talk about.

[702] By the way, check it out.

[703] It's a scary, scary thing.

[704] Don't let the children watch it.

[705] You did happy days?

[706] I was thinking, I'm sure you had some.

[707] Time to look up a bit.

[708] All that time, I wanted to be better at what I was doing.

[709] I was totally confused.

[710] I went home filled with self -loathing and fear.

[711] But do you not understand, I could go and get a chicken salad sandwich and they were in there?

[712] It was the hang, man. It was a well -hosted party, and I was not the host.

[713] By the way, can I just bust up in a theme song to The Love Boat?

[714] Oh, absolutely.

[715] Exciting and you.

[716] sung by Jack Jones, who I met, living out in Palm Springs one time.

[717] We're expecting you.

[718] The love boat is making another run.

[719] The love boat promising something for everyone set a course for adventure your mind on a true romance.

[720] Oh, I love this.

[721] There was poetry in there, and love won't hurt anymore.

[722] What was our bartender's name?

[723] He had a great name.

[724] Isaac.

[725] He was my favorite.

[726] But he was from Oakland, and I was from Oakland, too, and I got to share that with him.

[727] We had a little moment.

[728] Okay, if I wanted to compartmentalize the different, chapters of this ride for you.

[729] You have the TV experience.

[730] I think we should maybe just mention, because he was a boss of mine, and he's so lovely Ron Howard.

[731] Ron Howard, Splash.

[732] This movie should be terrible, Tom.

[733] This should be a bad, bad movie.

[734] The fish is going to be out of the water.

[735] We don't have the technology yet for that.

[736] From the studio that brought you Gus, the field gold kicking mule, and the boat mix comes Opie Cunningham's romantic.

[737] Fish story.

[738] It's only been pulled out twice, and the other guy was Guillermo Deltoy.

[739] It's not an easy genre.

[740] No one makes a movie alone, and no one gets up there without the power of the massive alliance of collaborators.

[741] And in that mix is the serendipity of fate.

[742] Because if it was any other way, every movie you've made would be fantastic.

[743] We all know.

[744] It just doesn't happen that way.

[745] I heard this one thing.

[746] Movies are binary, somebody said.

[747] Movies are binary.

[748] They're either double zero or zero one.

[749] And if there are double zero, there's nothing you can do in order to change it.

[750] It doesn't work.

[751] No matter how much you sell it, promote it, talk about it, love it.

[752] So you are always approaching the day with a huge amount of faith in what everybody else is bringing to the mix.

[753] And without that, you're doomed.

[754] You've got to trust over into a process that a goofy accident will turn into the thing that makes them.

[755] And there's a million examples of this throughout motion picture.

[756] history.

[757] And if you were bored enough, I could walk you through some of the things that I remember.

[758] I said, I don't even remember that day.

[759] And yet it was a thing that everybody will still talk about.

[760] Yeah.

[761] I don't know.

[762] Just your first big shot.

[763] And it's at the perfect time.

[764] Let me tell you, when I was doing bosom buddies, excuse me, I'm going to have a sip of Bosco here.

[765] I think it was that love boat.

[766] You put your vocal cords in a total test.

[767] Yeah, through the ringer.

[768] Don't pull out that Jack Jones without some vocal warmups.

[769] Carity, carot, carity, carry, carry.

[770] Yeah, you're like going for the max lift without any warm -up.

[771] We knew we were fortunate at the time.

[772] Peter Scaleri, God bless him, just passed away by the Emperor of Maladies last year.

[773] Oh, cancer.

[774] Yeah.

[775] We were the only guys on this TV show, and the women were Telma Hopkins, Lucille Benson, the fabulous Holland Taylor, Donna Dixon, Wendy Joe Spurber.

[776] Five girls, two guys.

[777] The women were all down in some other part of the soundstage dressing room kind of areas.

[778] And Peter and I had doors that faced each other.

[779] And we leaned in each other's doorway, wearing panty hose and lip gloss because we're dressed in drag.

[780] And he and I had the same sort of background, certainly had the same sort of desires.

[781] He had a much more impressive theatrical resume than I didn't.

[782] I was always asking him about that.

[783] But you want to talk about a Gestalt communication that came from the very first moment we said, eyes on each other.

[784] He and I could reference huge amounts of common knowledge between the two of us with literally three phrases.

[785] Ring a ding ding, ding, meant everything to us.

[786] And Peter was persnickety.

[787] He could get pissed off for a lot of things.

[788] But we spent more time, first of all, complaining about that everything, but then also taking a degree of pride because we made it a point in order to get the scripts out of our hands as soon as possible.

[789] A 30 -minute sitcom script is about 30 pages, about 28 pages.

[790] Big fat fonts and so it's not a lot of text per page.

[791] And we would put those things down as fast as possible and just start goofing around on the clock that would then pay off later on.

[792] And because it was a video show with four video cameras, we could do it.

[793] We can actually stop what we were doing.

[794] The guys could do the line cuts.

[795] And the writers, they would come down and we were able to develop a trust from them so much so that they would write into the The pages, boys chuffa off, C -H -U -F -F -A.

[796] That was their term for improv?

[797] They did not have to write the end of the scene.

[798] They just said, boys, chuffa -off.

[799] Oh, that's great.

[800] We got so much joy out of that.

[801] And we didn't realize that, in reality, that was a ridiculous amount of freedom to give us.

[802] It gives you pride and ownership.

[803] It was a primer into that concept of follow your instincts, make sure you're playing, rely on the other guy to be there.

[804] And I will tell you that if I ever see a clip from Boz and Buddies, I have no idea what I am saying, but I remember everything that Peter said.

[805] Oddly enough, because it was Peter and because we had this secret language and because we spent so much time, you know, pondering our lives, because what, I was 24.

[806] He was maybe 25.

[807] We were on the cusp of what?

[808] And yet at the same time, we were completely unappreciated because Tom Selleck was on CBS at the same time we were, and he was in Magnum P .I. And nobody watched us.

[809] Great quads and a thick mustache.

[810] Yeah, he had the mustache.

[811] He was on a one -hour show, and we were on this video thing at Paramount Studios.

[812] He's driving a Ferrari.

[813] You're in Pantyhows.

[814] We always felt like everybody else was the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, and we were maybe Freddy and the Dreamers.

[815] That's good fuel.

[816] You got to hold on to that.

[817] I will say I carried that sort of union and worth ethic along with me, because we spent two formative years, you know, just trying to have, number one, a great hang, and number two, do good instinctive work in the face of having 28 minutes.

[818] Tom Selleck, he wouldn't have been given this kind of opportunity, which is it forced you to carve out your point of view pretty quickly, and you got to carry the point of view along with you.

[819] You experimented and you were positively rewarded for it, and it gives you this confidence that all, I have a take now I can bring places, as opposed to I'll get plugged in.

[820] That was the beginning of SCTV that was on.

[821] We were on the cusp of this great thing because, first of all, videotape recorders cost a mere $3 ,000.

[822] And I swear to God, the first videotape recorder I bought cost $2 ,200.

[823] And, you know, if you had a camera to it, it was expensive.

[824] But we would record the great shows at the time, SNL on Saturday night, and SCTV.

[825] And we would examine these things because we felt as though we were doing the same sort of work in 28 minutes on a thing called bosom buddies that was on after Mark and Mindy before Barney Miller.

[826] So we weren't creating it ourselves, but we got to chuff off.

[827] You're in a three -year sketch.

[828] Yeah, yeah.

[829] It was empowering in a way that was more important than I think the other aspects of the gig itself, although we complained about everything else in the show business certainly as well.

[830] I just want to underscore the hang part because not everyone listening is in this business, but that can be applied across the board.

[831] Any job has a hang.

[832] Exactly.

[833] And that's where the aliveness is.

[834] That's what you take away when you go home and you talk to your friends at dinner.

[835] So it's like make the most of it in the middle ground.

[836] I was at Bellman for about two years for the Oakland Hilton Hotel out by the airport.

[837] And I will say Bellman because Bellboy is a derogatory.

[838] term.

[839] Sure.

[840] Or in bell service, my friend.

[841] And the hang on the other side of the desk, like in the back when it wasn't busy or in our bell service office, all we did was laugh and carry on.

[842] And I was a dishwasher for a while.

[843] Not a great hang because I was usually alone back there.

[844] But any kind of gig that you have, it ends up being a, who do you like to go see?

[845] Who's the regular?

[846] There's always a funny guy.

[847] There's always a genius woman.

[848] There's always somebody at work that the first thing you rue on the day is because, oh, man, Monica's sick.

[849] She's not going to be in today.

[850] Well, I would go home.

[851] I'm not doing it without.

[852] How was work, honey?

[853] Not so great for Monica's out.

[854] Now, that's true.

[855] But isn't that the thing about anybody working anywhere at all?

[856] I would imagine we share this, which is in 20 years of doing this, I can maybe remember 10 scenes.

[857] And I have a bazillion memories of Video Village, listening to Will Arnett, listening to this person, listening to sharing stories.

[858] Who'd you meet?

[859] Oh, my God, they did what?

[860] Oh, my God.

[861] Vincent Dinoffreel worked with the guy.

[862] He shit his pants in a scene.

[863] What the fuck are you talking about?

[864] Then there's the prop truck.

[865] There's the grips, the guys that are hanging around.

[866] Yes.

[867] I made a movie with the most amazing greensmen on the planet Earth.

[868] And the greensman is the guy that comes in and alters the plants and the floor and the fauna that are in the shot.

[869] If something has to be removed, he removes it.

[870] If something has to be added, he adds it.

[871] He helps complies it.

[872] the shot.

[873] And we were out in the middle of nowhere.

[874] And he had to remove a little shrub that was in the shot.

[875] And he leaned down with his trowel and his shovel.

[876] He leaned down to the bush.

[877] And he said, thank you, my lovely.

[878] And then he dug it up and pulled it out.

[879] I saw him out back at his green truck.

[880] And I said, excuse me. Did you thank that bush for its place and the zeitgeist before?

[881] Oh, yeah.

[882] It's like thanking the rabbit you've killed for its sacrifice for your dinner.

[883] It's like Daniel Day Lewis and Last of the Mohicans, you know.

[884] I'm going to sing to the soul of this deer that I just killed.

[885] Yes.

[886] Okay.

[887] If you ever listen to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast, revision is history?

[888] I've heard it, and I've read a bunch of Malcolm's books, but that sounds to me like a little bit of deliciousness there.

[889] You have to be listening to it.

[890] I'm going to try to Reader's Digest for you this episode I just heard.

[891] It's absolutely incredible.

[892] It's about Will and Grace.

[893] You're like me, man. After you hear one of these things, are you not the most obnoxious dinner party guests?

[894] Because all you do is talk about what you just heard on a amazing.

[895] podcast about history.

[896] I know you and I have the exact same internal monologue on every car ride back to my house from any social event, which is, shut the fuck up.

[897] Let someone else talk.

[898] But I need you to like me, and I've got to figure out the one thing you might be interested in, and it's just...

[899] I've gotten better, but boy, these little side combos I have with myself.

[900] Even in the bathroom, you ever walk into the bathroom at a dinner party and go, just shut the fuck up for the next 15 minutes?

[901] Can you make it 15?

[902] I have finished an anecdote that went on for 20 minutes and said, ladies and gentlemen, for the next 40 minutes, I'm only going to listen about it because I am sick of hearing my voice.

[903] But you do now know about how radar was invented, and I think you'll be able to utilize that somewhere.

[904] But don't you feel pressure?

[905] Pressure, no. I don't feel pressure.

[906] I feel giddy.

[907] Energized.

[908] Next time we're at a social event.

[909] This is what is going to happen in both of our cars.

[910] My wife is going to say, did you have to spend the entire party talking with Dax on the couch?

[911] Okay.

[912] Honey, he was talking about Leningrad.

[913] I learned all this stuff about Leningrad from Dax.

[914] I didn't know this stuff.

[915] Oh, I'm your Huckleberry on that.

[916] Oh, there's a reference.

[917] And to be debated, there's a debate whether it's Huckle Bearer, which is holding the buckles of a casket.

[918] Oh.

[919] Or Huckleberry.

[920] Okay, neither here nor there.

[921] You have to listen to this episode.

[922] It's Will and Grace, Revisionness History, Malcolm Gladwell.

[923] And here it is in a nutshell.

[924] It talks about how confining the box was in the 90s for network television.

[925] And then it goes on to say that there was an incredible study done on what was the best predictor of people's political agenda or how they would vote.

[926] And what they found was that the number one indicator was the more television someone watched in the 80s, the more centrist they were going to be as voters.

[927] This would transcend socioeconomic stuff, all these other markers and metrics, that there was this enormous unifying aspect to the days of shows that got 30 million viewers when you were on the bus the next morning.

[928] You could turn and say, gun smoke last night.

[929] You could say to a stranger, holy shit, Marnie got shot.

[930] And that person would look at you and they had had that experience.

[931] Just the unifying nature of that.

[932] So Will and Grace is a gay comedy when there's never been one on TV.

[933] It's impossible to get it to fit in this safe box, this moderate centrist box.

[934] And in doing so, Max and the other creator, they got all kinds of criticism from Glad, from all these different activists saying, well, you're not going to talk about AIDS?

[935] How dare you not talk about AIDS?

[936] You're not going to show them kiss.

[937] So criticized, but the data is black and white.

[938] So polled Americans were only 25 % in favor of gay marriages.

[939] Prior to the show launching, at the end of its run, 50 % of America was in favor of gay marriages.

[940] There's no one on earth that will not argue that Will and Grace was probably one of the most instrumental things ever.

[941] Directed by Jim Burroughs, yes.

[942] Yeah, in the pursuit of marriage equality and a lot of other issues.

[943] And so while I was listening to this episode, I was like, I never even thought of that lens that part of our polarization right now, sure, it's the internet, sure, it's this, it's Trump, but a lot of it's just that we no longer all watch the same TV show.

[944] That's a huge component of this.

[945] So my brain went immediately to Philadelphia, and I think of you at that period, and you're not dishonest, and you're not unwilling to tell people what you think, yet you're also not leading with your political agenda at all times.

[946] And in doing so, you opened up all of America, not just half of America, to go watch this fucking beautiful movie that definitely pushes this heartbreaking issue so far up the hill.

[947] It's in that same world as Will & Grace.

[948] And I imagine there were even people that were pissed at you in those days that you weren't at every single rally.

[949] And then I just think, well, if you get global, and you pan out.

[950] This person that didn't do enough, according to you, might have actually pushed it up the hill a lot further.

[951] I'm very happy that you were who you were and you invited as many people.

[952] You made as many people as humanly possible feel safe to come watch a story about a man with AIDS.

[953] You just touched on what I thought was the power of it when the very first time I talked to, Ron Niswander, who wrote it and Ed Saxon, who produced it, and fabulous Jonathan Demi, of course.

[954] The point of the movie was, There's not to be afraid of here.

[955] Now, that movie could have been made for $1 .1 million and been seen by 800 people.

[956] We could have put Sean Penn in it?

[957] Well, that would have been quite a coup.

[958] That would have been great.

[959] But it was a $30 million movie that had to compete in the marketplace, meaning it had to make its money back.

[960] Otherwise, it would be a failure.

[961] It dealt with a topic that was ripped right out of today's headlines by way of a very familiar trope, which is the courtroom drama.

[962] There is a lawsuit.

[963] There is a legal thing here and there is a societal thing here without a doubt, this concept of not just being gay, but also this pandemic that's going on of AIDS that is biblical in its proportions.

[964] But you guys aren't talking about that.

[965] You guys are talking about was it fair for this guy to be fired or not?

[966] And that is an entryway that everybody can appreciate.

[967] I mean, maybe you're just going to be involved in the, you know, Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, antagonist, protagonist narrative of it, you got a story there.

[968] If you're going to go off and see a movie that is essentially a polemic about how things must change, that becomes work.

[969] Yeah.

[970] A $35 million thing that is a commercial enterprise is a work, but it cannot be medicine if you're going to sit down and watch it, because that's a whole different sort of contract that an audience has with whatever it chooses to pay to.

[971] You see.

[972] That's the domain of a documentary I'll add.

[973] And by the way, brilliant documentaries can be made.

[974] Yes.

[975] But I know what I'm signing up for.

[976] Educate me on this.

[977] Roger Spottiswood did and the band played on for HBO.

[978] And that was actually more of that kind of thing.

[979] That was a very specific kind of like Randy Schultz's book, which by the way, you know, I read and saw it.

[980] That was more or less about the same time.

[981] That was about the life and the tragedy that was going on in the gay community.

[982] And ours was about everybody knows someone who's gay.

[983] Everybody has somebody gay in their family.

[984] If you go to the bank, chances are you're standing in line with somebody who's gay, and you're getting your money from a bank teller who could very well be gay.

[985] The odds are very, very specific.

[986] They're stacked against you if you're trying to avoid it.

[987] It's about what?

[988] 17 % of the male population is gay, maybe more, and what, 8 % of the female population is lesbian, and you take into account everything else that we've learned by that.

[989] There are numbers that are irrefutable.

[990] Now, it's not everybody, but it's millions of people.

[991] Yeah.

[992] So it's 1990, blah.

[993] I can't remember what year it was.

[994] And how are they going to do this?

[995] And I don't know at the time, was there a single bankable, marketable movie star that would make the executives at a studio say, let's pay that guy the bunny in order to be in this movie, who was homosexual?

[996] There were whispers.

[997] I don't know that anybody at that time felt comfortable, nor would society or the business, quote, unquote, allow someone to say, I am gay, I'm in love with this same -sex partner.

[998] That didn't happen until, honestly, Broadway and the Tony's probably about five or six or seven years later.

[999] So Philadelphia comes out, and I guess I sort of made news recently because I said, I don't know if a guy like me could play that part in a movie right now, because I'm not gay.

[1000] Yeah.

[1001] But that's not the point.

[1002] I don't believe.

[1003] I think the point was that was then, and all sorts of rules were down there.

[1004] And we had the same exact thing happened to us, how dare you make a movie where you don't make out with Antonio Bander.

[1005] And there was a peck on the cheek.

[1006] And I said at the time, everybody in this room, if we had a make -out scene, and this was at the time, now no one gives a shit, if we had had a scene in which he and I made love in a bed and you saw some version of PG -13 -rated sex between two men, it would have been the only thing everybody talked about.

[1007] There's a famous, famous story about the original King Kong movie.

[1008] And the guys are chasing, they're trying to save Faye Ray because King Kong grabbed her and took off and they were out in the middle of the Skull Island and they grabbed their guns and they run off, they try to save Faye Ray.

[1009] And a bunch of them are on this log trying to cross a ravine.

[1010] And King Kong shows up, picks up the log and shakes a bunch of the guys off and they fall down into a ravine.

[1011] Well, in the original cut of the movie, they fell down into a ravine and landed in a big spider web.

[1012] And a huge spider crawled out of the cave, grabbed them and ate them.

[1013] And after test screenings of that movie came out, no one was afraid of King Kong anymore because there were these huge spiders that would eat guys alive.

[1014] They buried the lead, yeah.

[1015] So they cut the spiders, and King Kong was able to go off and be the King Kong.

[1016] And I just said, this would have been spiders and King Kong guys because it's 1993.

[1017] And by the way, I had gay writers just saying, you copped out, man, you didn't show that.

[1018] You didn't actually reflect our lives by there.

[1019] And I said, okay, fair enough.

[1020] But people have to be pragmatic.

[1021] So all that you would have attracted to that version of the film would have been people who were already in support of gay rights.

[1022] There would have been people who were already comfortable.

[1023] The goal isn't reconfirming your little insular silo continues to think like you.

[1024] You would hope it's to invite more people in.

[1025] Let's take this to a ridiculous degree right now.

[1026] Not too long ago, I saw a clip from Zorba the Greek, Anthony Quinn as Zorba the Greek.

[1027] In this day and age, could Anthony Quinn play over the Greek?

[1028] He's not Greek.

[1029] No. You have a Greek passport, so maybe you might be able to straddle this.

[1030] I am Hellenic by way of marriage and documentation.

[1031] Here's the thing.

[1032] Maybe today you wouldn't be the best casting for that role, because society has grown.

[1033] We have changed.

[1034] We have had more acceptance.

[1035] But I would also argue that at the time in 1992, you were the only person who could play that role.

[1036] You were the most trusted actor at the time and the safest actor.

[1037] And when people turn on that movie or go into the movie theater, they already have empathy for you.

[1038] They already have a pathos towards you.

[1039] So you were the only person who could have played that so that people could be like, oh, wow.

[1040] They could see it through a different lens.

[1041] I was on live with Regis and Kathy Lee.

[1042] And Regis said, this is quite a serious theme for a movie, Tom.

[1043] I said, yeah, it is, but there's nothing to be afraid of.

[1044] And I looked at the audience.

[1045] There's nothing to be afraid.

[1046] to folks.

[1047] Don't be afraid.

[1048] It's okay.

[1049] I play a gay guy.

[1050] It's all right.

[1051] And they laugh.

[1052] You won't catch it through the screen.

[1053] What has righteously happened here in the year 2022 is that an audience has become incredibly hip, incredibly smart, and they now react and respond to authenticity much more than the contract that they have with going to see a movie that they know is fake.

[1054] Right.

[1055] It's a good requirement to have, but it's going to fall into that same sort of rubric as you can stack three rocks on top of each other in a national park and then be criticized by the Free Rock Society who says, how dare you alter the geological formation of those rocks by putting them artificially on top of one?

[1056] And I'm taking it to a ridiculous degree.

[1057] And all you can say is, okay.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] All things are true.

[1060] Of course those roles should go to gay actors.

[1061] There are now openly gay actors who can open movies.

[1062] That's great.

[1063] That's a new thing.

[1064] In the commerce of it all, now can make sense.

[1065] Now, have we gone to a place that hopefully now that we have enough representation?

[1066] I'll give you one example, which is I have a friend who's autistic.

[1067] I have a lot of gay, famous friends.

[1068] And I've asked them, who would you want to play you?

[1069] And without exception, they've all said, well, I'd want the very best actor to play me. Probably I want Brad Pitt to play me. It's always Brad Pitt.

[1070] Who doesn't want Brad Pitt?

[1071] I think there's a lot of people saying no, but then I think if you ask a lot of people who might end up getting played in a movie one day, they would likely want the very best actor.

[1072] So I think all things are true and there's some middle ground.

[1073] This all comes out on the wash because at the end of the day, if they don't want to see the movie, they won't.

[1074] And if they do, they will.

[1075] And you walk away saying, boy, that was a good use of my time.

[1076] Or that was a waste of my time.

[1077] It was either a double zero or a zero one.

[1078] Well, you've been working for so long.

[1079] Too long.

[1080] Well, no, but you've been around through so many societal changes.

[1081] It's just bound to happen.

[1082] It's going to come with the territory.

[1083] I'm sure you get also so much of this with romantic comedies.

[1084] Same thing, things have changed.

[1085] So you can't look back and be like, hey, you shouldn't have done that.

[1086] Times were different.

[1087] Who can change anything?

[1088] And the audience now, they make their righteous choices and they react in kind.

[1089] And by the way, because of the golden era of television where everything is a niche audience, they've actually been giving the exact thing they would want to see.

[1090] They've become accustomed to getting the exact thing they'd want to see because there's so many options.

[1091] There is no compromise today.

[1092] If you want to watch this show about lesbians in prison and that only.

[1093] You got Orange's New Black.

[1094] If you want to watch the show about a horror movie at a conversion camp, you got that for you.

[1095] Back when we were going to the movies, I got one movie that was for me, smoking the bandit.

[1096] That was the last one.

[1097] That was from Dak Shepard.

[1098] Fucking running from the cops into Trans Am, Jackie Gleason, swearing at everyone.

[1099] Like, they made one for me, and that was the one.

[1100] I'm going to stop by the choking puke and throw some groceries down the neck, you know, that kind of stuff.

[1101] Make it a Dr. Pepper, make it fast, I'm in a goddamn hurry.

[1102] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1103] Okay, we're going to talk about Pinocchio.

[1104] So I got to be honest with you, as I'm researching you today, of course, I'm like, Zumechis, and I just go through this whole thing in my head, like, oh, used cars.

[1105] Bob can walk you through every single day of use cars.

[1106] Oh.

[1107] Talk about the bitter compromises and the strokes of luck.

[1108] And I would sit for that forever.

[1109] My dad sold cars.

[1110] So it was my dad's favorite movie.

[1111] You can just see Bob.

[1112] In those movies, you'll see, okay, you see that right there?

[1113] Well, wait to you see what Bob did three movies later.

[1114] When he had a budget, yeah, everyone should see you's cars.

[1115] Pound for pound that movie, every scene crushes.

[1116] Every scene, it's like a blackout scene in sketch comedy.

[1117] It's incredible.

[1118] But anyways, I started looking up Zumakis, a huge detour.

[1119] I almost couldn't get back to you because I was kind of just taking in.

[1120] Holy shit.

[1121] Zumechus is in every way Spielberg.

[1122] I don't think in the culture and the zeit guys, people really recognize.

[1123] Zumechis.

[1124] I didn't even realize he wrote back to the future.

[1125] Of course, he directed used cars romancing the Stone.

[1126] I was like, oh, I didn't realize he directed romancing the song.

[1127] That's my favorite romantic adventure movie.

[1128] Oh, and then we go through all the back to the features, Forrest Gump, castaway, fucking Polar Express.

[1129] What an awesome dude do have been sharing the hang with for so long.

[1130] Oh my God.

[1131] The first time we had a real conversation, Forrest Gump was just this very, very long script.

[1132] Yeah, how long was that script?

[1133] Oh, it's like 172 pages.

[1134] Oh, my God.

[1135] Tell 300 stories, yeah.

[1136] Eric Ross is that I write long.

[1137] Boy, do you ever, man, and any idea in here goes on for 17 and a half pages.

[1138] I had met Bob a couple of times socially, but one of the first questions that I asked him, did Roger Rabbit almost kill you?

[1139] Because I'm exhausted by that movie, and I'm just watching it, and I'm exhausted by it.

[1140] We just went to a hotel room in Century City, and I thought it was just going to be 20 minutes of, well, what do you think, and la -la, nice to meet you, and well, let's see.

[1141] Thanks a quick question.

[1142] So much of that movie is A, your performance, and B, his direction.

[1143] When you read the script, could you see that Forrest Gump was there?

[1144] I mean, is that even possible?

[1145] No. It was a combination between the novel by Winston Groom that was very specifically different and what Eric had written free form to a cuckoo degree.

[1146] And this was the reason why this first meeting, we talked for three and a half hours, because we were talking about the ephemeral stuff that was not in the script as of yet.

[1147] And that was a conversation that went on for probably about another two years about what really is this thing and what is the point of this thing.

[1148] What theme is this movie touching on that is worthwhile doing all the work in order to examine?

[1149] And the cheesy analogy is that there's 8 ,000 sheep in a meadow and you just have to go collect each one of them one by one and drive them down and put them in the corral.

[1150] And very, very quickly, it was the three of us, Eric, Bob and myself getting together, talking for four hours at a time, fighting, arguing, coming up with new ideas, saying things to Eric like, what the fuck does that mean?

[1151] Right, right, right.

[1152] And Bob saying, why would we do that?

[1153] I mean, why bother with that?

[1154] There's no reason to do that.

[1155] I'm saying, guys, I don't understand why he says what he says right now.

[1156] Why does he say this?

[1157] And well, it's a movie, and he says things like that in a movie.

[1158] Then Eric would say, well, I just thought it was unique because he was able to make a conversation.

[1159] But Forrest doesn't know this.

[1160] Do I have to be the logic police in every scene in this freaking movie?

[1161] Right.

[1162] That was a very, very, very, very, very long time.

[1163] And I think if you asked the three of us, each of us would say in a movie about something else.

[1164] Oh, no shit.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] We would talk about Forrest as a different sort of talisman upon which to hang a movie.

[1167] And I'll stick to mine, you know.

[1168] I don't give a shit what they say.

[1169] I'm Forrest Gump for crying out.

[1170] Please don't excerpt that clip of what I just said.

[1171] And I'm also Captain Phillips, and I'm Jim Lovell, and I'm Sallie Sullenberg, all these guys.

[1172] I'm Jepetto!

[1173] So don't mess with me. I'm in Pinocchio because Bob directed it, period, the end.

[1174] I will follow Bob to hell in a gasoline suit, because this guy cannot do anything that has ever been done before, and he must rattle the cage of the script and of the studio.

[1175] and of the actors and of the special effects crews, his whole perspective.

[1176] And he said this once when we were making the movie.

[1177] I said, why don't we just put the camera there and he'll do this?

[1178] And then he said, well, hell, anybody can do that.

[1179] My position on Forrest is this is a man who cannot operate faster than his own common sense.

[1180] And so, therefore, every scene, every decision, every beat comes down to a specific moment where Forrest has to act upon what he knows is the right thing.

[1181] to do.

[1182] And it takes a while, and he's only learned it from his mom and from Bubba and from Jenny.

[1183] That's what I would say.

[1184] But Bob is willing to take everything that we've ever done, because then there was also Castaway, which took six years of these conversations.

[1185] Polar Express, which happened very fast because Bob was excited about the technology.

[1186] And also, we did a lot of work with Chris Van Allsberg in order to get down to the essence of what it was.

[1187] A lot of that movie was made in post.

[1188] Right.

[1189] We shot that in a volume, as we called it, in about 32 days, and everything else was so malleable, Bob could make whatever movie he wanted to based on the digital information that was in the hard drives.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] To get into it with Pinocchio, when I heard that Bob was doing it, I contacted him Haste Post -Ais, and I said, okay, okay, Bob.

[1192] I know a lot about Pinocchio because, guess what, I'm Walt Disney.

[1193] I played Walt Disney in a movie.

[1194] I can throw that in there, too.

[1195] After I saved Private Ryan, I was Walt Disney.

[1196] I'm Kip Wilson.

[1197] I'm Larry Crown.

[1198] Don't mess with me. Okay, Bob, you are going to do something with this tent pole Disney classic.

[1199] That is, number one, a huge piece of commercial intellectual property.

[1200] A legacy property.

[1201] A legacy property that is going to have all these stickers and expectations and demands and all this kind of stuff attached to it.

[1202] And I just sort of, look, I want to be involved just to watch you squirm through all of that.

[1203] That's going to be funny.

[1204] Knowing that massive history of where Pinocchio was in the Walt Disney zeitgeist is huge.

[1205] I would argue that outside of Sleeping Beauty, which was the first, I would say this is a very close 1A to the most important movie in the history of the Walt Disney film studios because it was dark, it was violent, it was scary to an awful lot of the kids out there.

[1206] It had the requisite when you wish upon a star.

[1207] It had that Disney -esque element to it.

[1208] And it also did have, I'd like to be a real boy.

[1209] You know, it had that version of it, too.

[1210] It was the first feature that used the multi -plane animation camera, which allowed a huge amount of new cinematic narrative that Walt Disney was Gaga over.

[1211] And you see it again and again and again throughout the point.

[1212] I mean, if you look at it just from an animated point of view, it's the first truly three -dimensional animated.

[1213] feature because of the plane camera, which is sitting in a museum up in San Francisco.

[1214] It's a huge piece of amazing stuff.

[1215] Oh, and also, it suffered at the box office because of a little thing called World War II.

[1216] Oh, wow.

[1217] It lost half of its global audience because it could no longer play in Nazi -occupied Europe, and it couldn't play anywhere in the Empire of Japan.

[1218] And do you know who was a huge, huge money -making star?

[1219] In both of those countries, Mickey Mouse.

[1220] Yeah, that motherfucker was the original, The Rock.

[1221] He was massive.

[1222] Matter of fact, I want to think that, like, Donald Duck might have been Adolf Hitler's favorite cartoon character.

[1223] Sure, sure.

[1224] And Mussolini famously loved Goofy, I think.

[1225] Yeah, okay.

[1226] Emperor Tojo was nuts about Claire Bell the Cow.

[1227] I included all the dog.

[1228] So I knew all this kind of stuff.

[1229] I just asked this question, Bob, do you have a Geppetto?

[1230] I said, Bob, to go off and spend any amount of time with you, going through, whatever you're going to make us go through in order to imagine that there's this little puppet here.

[1231] They said, I would like to be in that laboratory.

[1232] And the other thing that comes out of it is that Bob is such a fan of what all the actors bring to it.

[1233] He's also willing to say, you want to try something else?

[1234] He's got a vision and some flexibility.

[1235] Nothing but flexibility.

[1236] The very opening number was it.

[1237] And the thing, I was bringing into it.

[1238] Okay, here's the Disney opening number.

[1239] And it's going to be some combination of it.

[1240] every opening song and every Disney movie you've ever seen from zippity dood to hi -ho, hi -ho, it's off to work.

[1241] And Bob said, I don't know, why don't you just do it like you're talking to yourself?

[1242] And that right there said, Bob, you have just liberated me from any sort of like corporate tent pole necessity that comes out of it.

[1243] By the way, I was just driving up to PCH down by LAX yesterday and I saw the first big billboard for it.

[1244] I'm going to assume Paul Newman experience this every now again.

[1245] There is a moment when you're driving around L .A. And you see for the first time the billboard for your movie.

[1246] Oh, yeah.

[1247] And you're just saying, well, all right, there it is.

[1248] A Rubicon has been crossed.

[1249] There's no coming back from this thing now.

[1250] Yeah, this isn't a secret anymore.

[1251] It's never mind that everything is on the IMDB now for the rest of time.

[1252] It's on Sepulveda Boulevard, right where it turns off to Lincoln, right?

[1253] There by the In -N -Out Burger.

[1254] Oh, yeah.

[1255] Everyone's seeing that.

[1256] Lots of eyes.

[1257] Every Uber driver and passenger is going to say, oh, is that, Hanks?

[1258] Yeah, that's me. Okay.

[1259] We should actually do like a scratch and sniff or something kind of like a scratch -off Easter egg hunt for the moments in Pinocchio that are going to be filled with subterfuge.

[1260] He's going to throw a couple of bombs here and there.

[1261] You know, there's going to be some firecrackers in this thing.

[1262] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1263] It's going to be at the same time taking into account the authenticity and the place where certain societal diplomacy has to be taking into account.

[1264] That will be there.

[1265] And there's no reason not to do that in this day and age.

[1266] Provided, of course, it ends up still being subversive.

[1267] And yes, when you wish upon a star, it makes no matter who you want.

[1268] It'll be in the yummy package.

[1269] So Forrest Gump's very subversive.

[1270] You know, I just showed it to my kids.

[1271] I thought they were old enough, seven and nine.

[1272] Right out of the gates, it starts.

[1273] And I'm like, oh, that's right.

[1274] His mother fuck the principal.

[1275] And that man comes out.

[1276] Everybody's wife is hell, your mother sure cares about your education.

[1277] I'm like, how do I explain this to the nine -year -old?

[1278] Yeah, mom just fuck that guy so that boy could be mainstreamed in school.

[1279] It's subversive as hell.

[1280] I have to hit you with my favorite line of the movie.

[1281] I'll kill myself if I don't.

[1282] I bet I say it to Monaco, what, twice a week?

[1283] Sarah rooned your Black Panther party.

[1284] There is a genius to that line that I can't even figure out why it's the best line ever.

[1285] Oh, man. Forrest thinks it's a party.

[1286] Bob is delighted by it, truly, like the most subversive moments.

[1287] It's in the harshest scene in the movie.

[1288] I mean, Jenny's getting smacked around.

[1289] God knows what she's ensnared in.

[1290] And then all of a sudden you say, sorry, I ruined your Black Panther party.

[1291] It's like all happening at once.

[1292] Oh, so good.

[1293] Bob just loved the New Year's Eve scene when Gary Sanisus Louis -Tenant Nan.

[1294] His little head is poking up above the bar.

[1295] And we're watching the eye.

[1296] Happy he just thought that was.

[1297] And Gary were saying, you know, this scene is cracking up, Bob, because Dan is in a wheelchair.

[1298] My little head is poking up above the bar and the bowl of penis.

[1299] It's the only reason we were shooting this scene is so my little head will be poking up.

[1300] And I actually said, you know, I think you're right.

[1301] Yeah.

[1302] I love that he doesn't deny himself when you get a little present like that.

[1303] Go ahead.

[1304] There's room for all of it in here.

[1305] So Pinocchio, interestingly, it's funny how it's kind of full circle and that now we have all this present they thought of like AI and machines and well they want to be people in consciousness and isn't it funny to see that recycled?

[1306] I was reading a book.

[1307] I want to say it was Dostoevsky talking about that mathematicians have come so far with their formulas that soon all of the future will be known.

[1308] You lost me at Dostoevsky.

[1309] I'm even fucking it up.

[1310] I don't know that it was him that was writing about the point is a very smart 18th century man is basically wrestling with the identical thing we are right now, which is, oh, AI is going to become so sophisticated and so computing that free will is maybe questionable and all will be known.

[1311] And what's going to matter anymore?

[1312] Yes.

[1313] So I go, oh, it's just a theme humans think of.

[1314] Like, we think it's novel because the technology is actually taking us there.

[1315] But no, these are very old fears, very old concepts, getting recycled.

[1316] I think you're landing on something that literally the audience is wrestling with.

[1317] And I'll go back again to that contract we have with the movies that we've seen.

[1318] The things we pay to be entertained by.

[1319] There's no contract unless money's exchange, right?

[1320] Because we can see everything for free.

[1321] We don't put the same demands on that.

[1322] The truth is that technology now allows us to drain Lake Michigan and fill it with cuckoo clocks.

[1323] There's not a moment you would think, wow, that looks real.

[1324] That looks like they drained Lake Michigan and filled it up with cuckoo clocks and all those clocks work amazing and this is fantastic.

[1325] And I know it didn't happen, but it sure looks like it happened.

[1326] Anything can happen in motion, picture stories now.

[1327] I'm going to say the Dolce Bita.

[1328] There's an amazing image that Frederico Fellini got of that, and it is the shadow of the Christ Jesus passing over the cityscape.

[1329] And then you realize it's coming from a helicopter that has lifted up this huge sculpture of Jesus, and it's flying it off somewhere.

[1330] And the shadow plays over the buildings of Rome.

[1331] In order to get that shot, you needed a helicopter and a pilot name.

[1332] heavy statue and you had to line up the sun.

[1333] This was a monstrous shot to get that also fraught with danger because helicopter could crash, the thing could fall down.

[1334] But in order to get that shot, Fellini had to work and work and work.

[1335] That shot now could be done so easily and no time at all and it would mean absolutely nothing.

[1336] So we're getting into the thing, what matters, what holds, what is really the thing that makes being human worthwhile if we can have a computer -generated pal on screen, or a lady named Siri who answers all of our questions.

[1337] What has substance?

[1338] What has value?

[1339] What has meaning?

[1340] What makes waking up in the morning worthwhile?

[1341] When you can hear only the stuff that you want to hear.

[1342] Yeah.

[1343] You will not be challenged in any way outside of your own individual comfort zone.

[1344] And if you can imagine it, you can see it.

[1345] Here's a ridiculous thing.

[1346] At the time of Montgolfier's first hot air balloon that went up in Paris.

[1347] a site that was gathered to be seen by as many as 400 ,000 Parisians that included Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, and John Adams.

[1348] 400 ,000 people would gather on the banks of the same and in the public squares of Paris in order to see something they had never seen before, which is men up in the sky suspended only by this big design gaseous thing.

[1349] An impossible event had occurred.

[1350] At that same time, what was even more impressive to thousands of Parisians would pay admission to see little tiny clockwork human beings and birds flap their wings and tweet and walk and perform and do these little dances.

[1351] Some of them were life size.

[1352] Some of those were the size of a champagne glass.

[1353] They were willing to pay livres, seven livres, in order to take a tour of somebody's workshop and little figurines looked like they were at.

[1354] alive.

[1355] And that was in 1779.

[1356] Now, that is how desirous we are in order to see life recreated in a way that delights us.

[1357] And now we're literally at the top of the game.

[1358] It comes down to that contract.

[1359] What are we willing to pay for in order to feel more alive than we do?

[1360] Do you ever read Sid Arthur in high school?

[1361] You know, I gave it a shot.

[1362] Went over my head.

[1363] It went over mine too.

[1364] I read Narcissus and Goldman.

[1365] Does that get me anything?

[1366] I don't even know what that is.

[1367] Another one by Herman Hess that I didn't understand.

[1368] By the way, I'm waiting for Monica's Herman Hesse reference here.

[1369] You got anything?

[1370] Yeah.

[1371] Use Beowliff, I think that's one too.

[1372] Harry Potter and the Sorcer Story.

[1373] There you go.

[1374] That's a good one.

[1375] Great.

[1376] I believe if I have the story correct, and I may have written it myself at this point, but early on he was seen in his village as this spiritual deity almost.

[1377] He was going to be enlightened.

[1378] Everyone knew it.

[1379] He outgrew that community.

[1380] He went to live with the Sikhs.

[1381] he kind of became well versed in what they had to offer.

[1382] And then he's like, I don't feel it.

[1383] He goes to the city.

[1384] This is the part I am concerned with.

[1385] And he becomes a rich businessman.

[1386] And he eats a ton and he doesn't meditate and he gets fat and slovenly.

[1387] And he feels like shit.

[1388] And he goes to a river to jump in and kill himself.

[1389] And then in the moment, watching the river, he achieves enlightenment.

[1390] Now, I only care about that third chapter of his life.

[1391] And I think about it in my own because I have too much good shit.

[1392] It's unnatural.

[1393] And where do I go from there?

[1394] And it has to be weirdly a spiritual thing because there's no more prizes and bells and shiny things for me to get.

[1395] And I think weirdly we're at a moment in movie making where the spectacle happened.

[1396] We can do anything.

[1397] We can drain Lake Michigan.

[1398] We can fill it with clocks.

[1399] The spectacle's over.

[1400] The hot air balloon's been in the air.

[1401] Right.

[1402] So what is the fucking enlightenment?

[1403] What is the story?

[1404] What is the heart theme?

[1405] Because we already did spectacle.

[1406] So now we've got to use it for something.

[1407] I may be wrong.

[1408] And I'm totally willing to be corrected because I have not read a lot about Buddha, but I heard this, Buddha was a prince, and in order to achieve enlightenment, he just went out and sat on the road outside the gates of his palace, and that's how he achieved enlightenment.

[1409] All he did was watch real life go by.

[1410] That's my understanding.

[1411] I'm going to assume that's correct, and I'll repeat it to people.

[1412] Okay.

[1413] If it wasn't Buddha, it was someone really cool.

[1414] But what you're speaking of is, let's call it, authenticity, also then fold in simplicity.

[1415] I think it's getting down to, no matter how big the huge, movie is, and I think you can do this in any of the great films that have entered into the pantheon, you could probably break it down to a haiku.

[1416] You could probably break it down to a 575 statement of theme.

[1417] In a brief period of time when I was studying theater and art and acting, the thing that we had to do before we began rehearsal was to break down the theme of the play into a short statement.

[1418] Not a question.

[1419] You couldn't say, what is the play?

[1420] No, it was a statement.

[1421] And that works for Chekhov and it works for O 'Neill and it works for George Lucas and it works for the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[1422] And I think that because anything is possible, there's an awful lot of hooey that can get mixed up in there in which that simple 575 statement of theme gets cluttered.

[1423] And I think we as people who are invested with our 18 bucks into I am choosing to go and see this thing, the close you are to that haiku statement is the truer than the more authentic and the more meaningful it is.

[1424] The best feeling in the world, I felt it as a James Bond movie, or I felt it as Walt Disney's Swiss family Robinson, is when you'd come out of the theater and thinking, oh, man, I am so glad I went to that movie today.

[1425] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1426] It's the only feeling that matter that comes out of this.

[1427] So based on that, I'm out of here, baby.

[1428] Okay, listen.

[1429] I've got to take a shower, guys.

[1430] I'm still in my workout shorts.

[1431] I adore you, again.

[1432] And I want to remind everyone, you just deliver in real life your capacity to be generous and authentic and kind.

[1433] You don't have to and you do.

[1434] And I've always enjoyed and felt flattered by your attention.

[1435] I feel so lucky we got to talk to you today.

[1436] And for such a long time.

[1437] And I have so much faith in Zumecas.

[1438] I can't wait to watch Pinocchio.

[1439] I know he has the real thing under all the gimmicks and all the flashy things.

[1440] And so I will stick with him and you.

[1441] And if you guys do a KFC campaign, that's what he wants to do next.

[1442] I'm fucking Ti -vo those spots, and I'm going to watch them over and over again.

[1443] Popcorn chicken.

[1444] Order it by the bucket.

[1445] Thank you guys.

[1446] Monica, if we're ever in the same room, swing by and say hello.

[1447] Absolutely, we'll do.

[1448] All right.

[1449] Peace and love you guys.

[1450] Bye -bye.

[1451] Bye.

[1452] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1453] Hi.

[1454] You hear me?

[1455] Oh, yeah, let me turn this way up.

[1456] Say one more thing.

[1457] Talking and talking and talking some more.

[1458] Oh, it's really good.

[1459] You don't have to talk anymore.

[1460] Okay, I'm done.

[1461] Bye.

[1462] Love you.

[1463] Bye.

[1464] So sorry for that delay.

[1465] That's okay.

[1466] We got juicy at the end.

[1467] Oh, he gave you some extra minutes.

[1468] Is that a good...

[1469] Well, he'll charge me for a time and a half, which I don't mind.

[1470] I'm willing to pay.

[1471] I just like extra minutes because it feels like they love us.

[1472] Uh -huh.

[1473] I still feel that way even if he charges me. No. He only loves you if he gives you extra minutes for free.

[1474] We're talking about your therapist.

[1475] Yeah.

[1476] Also, it looks like you're in a 30s.

[1477] What was the Baz Luhrmann picture?

[1478] Mulan Rouge.

[1479] That's what it feels like in here.

[1480] Yeah, it looks like you're at Mulan Rouge in the dressing room where you're going to put on your flapper outfit.

[1481] Yeah, do you see these tassels?

[1482] I guess it's really that lampshade.

[1483] Tassel's on the lampshade.

[1484] Oh, where are you?

[1485] Paris.

[1486] You are in gay Paris.

[1487] Yes.

[1488] Oh, so Moulin Rouge was a very good guess.

[1489] Yeah, I thought you knew.

[1490] I thought maybe you were still in the inner city in Spain.

[1491] Aspania.

[1492] Substitative.

[1493] Substantive.

[1494] Substantive.

[1495] Substantive.

[1496] You did it.

[1497] Substantive.

[1498] Oh, by the way, for what it's worth, everyone sided with you that that person was French.

[1499] Yeah, listen, I know my people, okay?

[1500] As much as I spent a lot of my life trying to not know my people, I do.

[1501] You know them, you can't shake it.

[1502] Can't shake it.

[1503] You know them on a cellular level.

[1504] I do.

[1505] So tell me about where you're at and Gay Perry, because it looks like you're in a 200 -year -old house.

[1506] Well, it's funny you bring that up.

[1507] This is the first boutique hotel in the world.

[1508] What?

[1509] Yes.

[1510] And you know who stayed here?

[1511] I think having a way.

[1512] John Wilkes booth.

[1513] Ernest Hemingway?

[1514] I think so.

[1515] I'm going to look just to double check.

[1516] You should drink a quart of whiskey in his honor.

[1517] How do you like it in that room?

[1518] I love it.

[1519] It's so moody.

[1520] Okay, good.

[1521] To me, just visually, it looks like it has a deep smell of old dusty fabric, which is a trigger for me. Is the air thick in there with Hemingway's farts and Fitzgerald's coughs and Anias Ninsufels.

[1522] No, but I was thinking about hotels on this trip.

[1523] I added a day to my trip.

[1524] I mean, you already know this.

[1525] This was a while ago.

[1526] I added a day, so I'm coming back Monday.

[1527] When I added the day, I didn't book another day to this hotel.

[1528] I just, like, was like, oh, I'll do it when I get there.

[1529] But then I kind of worried it yesterday.

[1530] I was like, maybe I should look now.

[1531] And then, of course, booked up.

[1532] Oh, no, because you were going to check out what on Sunday morning and now you're checking out Monday morning?

[1533] Yes.

[1534] counterintuitive you would think well certainly they'll be vacancy Sunday night I know but I guess maybe that's when people are coming in I don't know but anyways so then I booked one night at the Ritz now we're talking I mean this is a fancy hotel this is a covenant hotel the one you're at mm -hmm are you allowed to say the name of it or did you have signed a non -disclosure act when you checked in no they'd probably like it it's called leh hotel The hotel?

[1535] Come on.

[1536] It is the first boutique hotel, Dax.

[1537] They had to call it that.

[1538] Well, it needs to be the first hotel period.

[1539] It might.

[1540] If it's going to be called the hotel.

[1541] Like, it makes sense if every hotel after was referred to as that thing, because they invented the name, the word hotel.

[1542] Maybe they did.

[1543] La Hotel.

[1544] Le best Western.

[1545] Oh, I'm sorry.

[1546] It wasn't Hemingway.

[1547] Oscar Wild.

[1548] Oh, sure, Oscar Wild.

[1549] He quipped his final lines here, and he never paid his final bill, now displayed in room 16.

[1550] That's not where I'm saying.

[1551] His bill is displayed, or the thing he wrote is displayed?

[1552] Probably his bill that he never paid would be my guess.

[1553] A lot of these old -timey guys, you've heard me rail on about Jefferson.

[1554] They just didn't pay.

[1555] They were like, I don't give a fuck.

[1556] I'm going to buy everything I want.

[1557] And then I'll rack up this dead, and I don't care.

[1558] Yeah, that's bad.

[1559] I mean, I assume he was planning on paying, but then he died.

[1560] What did he die of Oscar Wild?

[1561] Sudden death, I'm guessing?

[1562] Consumption?

[1563] That'd be my guess.

[1564] Menangitis.

[1565] Meningitis.

[1566] Ew, God.

[1567] Yikes.

[1568] Did he catch it from the HVAC system at Le Hotel?

[1569] No. Don't start that rumor.

[1570] Okay, okay, okay.

[1571] To answer your question, it doesn't smell like moldy old stuff, which I know what you're talking about.

[1572] It's got an old Paris quality, which I love, but it doesn't smell stinky.

[1573] And I like hotels like this.

[1574] I don't love modern hotels.

[1575] I mean, they're fun.

[1576] Okay.

[1577] Do you know what I mean?

[1578] Well, I'm learning this about you, and it's kind of contradicting some of our shared hotel experiences on the road where I learn of which hotels you really like and a lot of them were pretty modern.

[1579] Four seasons.

[1580] Yeah.

[1581] No, no, no, I'm sorry.

[1582] I mean international travel.

[1583] Okay, international travel.

[1584] But the place that you, your background, the last time we fact -checked.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] What an environment.

[1587] The wood walls, the enormous wall -to -wall glass.

[1588] You're telling me you like this fabric.

[1589] I'm trying to describe it.

[1590] This fabric -rich dungeon more than you did that big.

[1591] Is that what you're saying?

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] Oh, my God, wow.

[1594] Okay.

[1595] Great.

[1596] I accept it.

[1597] What is it?

[1598] It's a coziness.

[1599] It's a patina of history.

[1600] Yes, I feel transported.

[1601] Okay.

[1602] It has a story.

[1603] And in Paris, you say in a hotel like this, just everything's beautiful.

[1604] The pillow, like everything's really pretty.

[1605] And I'm in St. Germain.

[1606] It's just so nice.

[1607] Oh, we love St. Germain.

[1608] Have you gone to?

[1609] cafe de flora yet no i got to my hotel at like five and then immediately ran out to go shopping oh wonderful did you buy any clothing or purses all of the above no purses but i bought some clothing i bought a blankie i bought i'm assuming you brought an extra piece of luggage with you yes this is a whole thing so i was like i'm bringing a carry on only because it was working it was working it was because of you guys.

[1610] Right.

[1611] You had a bad experience with your luggage and I was like, I can't risk this.

[1612] I have to bring a carry -on only.

[1613] So then I go.

[1614] But then they checked it anyways because it was too big.

[1615] They checked it anyway.

[1616] And then when I got there, it was still my plan was to carry on to Paris and then buy a piece of luggage here because I figured I'd buy stuff here.

[1617] Yeah.

[1618] But I did not do well.

[1619] I bought so much stuff in Spain that I had to go ahead and buy the new piece of luggage in Spain.

[1620] Okay, but that bag made it just fine to Paris?

[1621] Yeah, I have both bags.

[1622] Both are here and great.

[1623] And my new one, okay, you'll be proud of me. So there was a purchase I could have made that I didn't make.

[1624] Okay.

[1625] Okay.

[1626] So San Sebastian is part of the Basque country of Spain.

[1627] It's the Basque region.

[1628] And then, like, 35 minutes away is the French border.

[1629] So you can cross into France into this surfing French town called Bia Ritz.

[1630] Oh, my gosh.

[1631] Yes.

[1632] And that's also in Basque Country, but on the French portion.

[1633] So we went in for a day.

[1634] Really quick, I hope the French won't be upset by me saying this.

[1635] I had no idea there were any French surfers.

[1636] That is not what I think of when I think of the French, that they are surfing people.

[1637] They are.

[1638] This man who worked at this fancy store moved there to surf.

[1639] Oh, wow.

[1640] Great.

[1641] Yeah, it is great.

[1642] Biarits has a Goyard.

[1643] Do you know Goyard?

[1644] Oh, I do, because when we were in Milan, there was an enormous, now it was all of the best shops, right?

[1645] Or the fanciest.

[1646] High fashion.

[1647] None of them had lines out of them.

[1648] Like, it was all very civil.

[1649] Well, there was a fucking line outside of Goyard every day.

[1650] that was like 30 people deep before the doors opened.

[1651] And all day long, they were letting X amount in at a time.

[1652] That was the huge thing between Molly and Kristen.

[1653] It's like, how are we going to get into that store without sitting in the 100 degree heat for two hours?

[1654] It had a line out the door every day.

[1655] It's not wild.

[1656] That's very weird.

[1657] I don't know why the Milan would have a line.

[1658] The one in Paris is the original.

[1659] And I, okay, so I almost bought a piece of luggage.

[1660] But then it was $10 ,000.

[1661] Of course.

[1662] Yes.

[1663] Well, just those thin little knapsacks they sell are a few grand, right?

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] They're, yes.

[1666] They're so expensive.

[1667] Anyway, so I didn't do it.

[1668] Yay, me. Congratulations.

[1669] You know, you always position this as I'm so against you.

[1670] It's buying this stuff.

[1671] I don't really care.

[1672] You're just being protective.

[1673] You don't want me to spend on my money, which I appreciate.

[1674] Yeah, I want you to be able to retire with some safety and comfort.

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] And you can't eat those Giord bags as beautiful as they are, you know.

[1677] Okay, this is a great ding, ding, ding that leads into my first fact.

[1678] Oh, great.

[1679] Because Tom Hanks said he was going to buy you a car or something like really fancy, and then he was going to buy me a Kelly bag.

[1680] Right, and I was impressed.

[1681] Or I wasn't impressed.

[1682] You were impressed.

[1683] Is that how it shook out?

[1684] Well, I, no, I was excited and you were impressed that he knew what, like, he were like, oh, is that something fancy?

[1685] He knows about this.

[1686] Can you hear me?

[1687] Oh, no. It caught up.

[1688] You were impressed he knew something fancy.

[1689] Oh, no. It's all so slow.

[1690] It's okay.

[1691] It's okay.

[1692] It's because I'm in Olivia Wilde's hotel.

[1693] Is this where Olivia Wiles?

[1694] child's at?

[1695] Yeah, she's also here.

[1696] Oh, wait, she's probably sucking up all the internet right now.

[1697] Do you want me to see if I know someone that's got her number to tell her to stop watching her Netflix show so we can do this?

[1698] Yes.

[1699] Okay, anyway, the Kelly bag is an Hermes bag.

[1700] Okay.

[1701] It is fancy.

[1702] Like, what's the price tag on a Kelly bag by Hermes?

[1703] like 12 ,000.

[1704] Okay, 12 grand.

[1705] More expensive than the Goyard luggage.

[1706] Uh -oh.

[1707] Oh, no. That's okay.

[1708] We only have one more of these.

[1709] We can do it.

[1710] We can do it.

[1711] God, we need to be back together.

[1712] Yes.

[1713] Get home.

[1714] It makes me happy to see you in the attic.

[1715] Oh, good.

[1716] I'm happy to be in the attic.

[1717] Okay.

[1718] Okay, do you want to tell me anything about the end of your trip or anything?

[1719] Okay.

[1720] Well, we dropped the motorhome off.

[1721] You know, we called it one day short from Austin because of Aaron's injured knee.

[1722] Mm -hmm.

[1723] And we went to a very nice hotel in Houston the night before our flight.

[1724] They had a really nice restaurant.

[1725] We went out to the really nice restaurant.

[1726] We had a very romantic meal.

[1727] I posted maybe you saw this dessert we got.

[1728] Yeah.

[1729] It was for lovers only, I think, that dessert.

[1730] And that was really, really fun.

[1731] And we met two beautiful arm cherries, these two sisters that were on a staycation in Houston.

[1732] And they sent us a really cute note that said, hi, best friend, Aaron Weekly, on a napkin, and a glass of cherries.

[1733] Oh.

[1734] So then we went over, we went up to the bar and chatted with them for a long while, and that was really sweet.

[1735] And then the next day, you know, pumped iron, wrote a lot, went to the airport, and then flew home.

[1736] And then now I'm back to dropping the kids off at school.

[1737] You know, I had this really great, I was just telling Robbie about it.

[1738] I had this great routine going where I would wake up and I would write in my journal.

[1739] And then I'd write prose for about an hour and a half.

[1740] And then on day one of dropping the kids off, I was like, well, Jesus, man. If I want to keep this routine up, I got to get up at like 5 .45.

[1741] Oh, I've done that the last two mornings.

[1742] Oh, my God.

[1743] Yeah, because I just really want to stay into this commitment of writing.

[1744] But then this morning I got up at 5 .45, side note, at 1 a .m., hear Delta's voice in the room.

[1745] Hey, did you check on me and give me a hug and a kiss like you said you were going to?

[1746] Which that happens from time to time.

[1747] Like, Delta decides to police what the commitment was, like, because she's asleep by the time we come back and do that.

[1748] And then we hear her link and go like, yeah, I told you.

[1749] already did.

[1750] So not really, both of them are just, it's 1 a .m. And they're like up and about.

[1751] They're in our room hanging.

[1752] So I assumed when I looked at my phone, it was going to be like 545, like they woke up early too.

[1753] Look at the phone.

[1754] No, 1 a .m. They're just, they slept for four hours.

[1755] Now they're up.

[1756] And they're like cruising the house.

[1757] Oh, my God.

[1758] And so the middle of all this negotiation, Kristen just goes, hey, will you two go back to bed?

[1759] And Delta goes, okay.

[1760] And then they just walked out of the room, clop, clop, clop.

[1761] and then went back to bed.

[1762] That was very weird.

[1763] Anyways, I woke up this morning, and I decided to go back even further.

[1764] I usually read the last few pages I wrote before I start again, but then I decided to go way back earlier, and then I decided that my structure sucks, and then I got all spun out, and then I was frustrated, and I was cranky and irritable, and I didn't write anything, and I just got up at 545 for no reason.

[1765] But I've now, I've successfully shaken off the whole thing.

[1766] Now I'm back to good.

[1767] Okay.

[1768] I'm sorry.

[1769] It's all right.

[1770] Did you have a nice meal last night or this evening that you're in right now?

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] I went to a yummy place that Audra recommended.

[1773] I walked there.

[1774] It was a 45 -minute walk.

[1775] And then I had a delicious dinner.

[1776] And then I walked back.

[1777] It was really nice.

[1778] I mean, last night after, like when I was going to bed, I was like, I'm never eating again.

[1779] Like, I think I'm probably.

[1780] probably just going to, like, call it on eating forever.

[1781] We ate so much in Spain.

[1782] I mean, so much, so many amazing things.

[1783] We ate a collective of 11 Michelin Stars.

[1784] Oh, my gosh.

[1785] Is Rob looking excited or what?

[1786] 11 Michigan Stars.

[1787] I am.

[1788] Well, your Internet stopped right as you were saying Michelin Stars.

[1789] So then he looked at me and he said, did she say 11?

[1790] And I said, yes, 11 Michigan.

[1791] We're just filling in the blanks on what we think you're saying.

[1792] I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

[1793] I'm filling in, and maybe sometimes wrong, but I'm filling in the 30 % of what you're saying that I'm not getting.

[1794] So I feel like I know you pretty well.

[1795] I think I'm doing a good job of filling in.

[1796] But I think Rob's struggling just a little bit more than I am.

[1797] Oh, no. I'm so sorry.

[1798] He's looking at me a lot to see what you just said.

[1799] Do you want to be done?

[1800] Is this so frustrating?

[1801] Of course not.

[1802] It's not frustrating at all.

[1803] She wants to know if you want to join her in Paris.

[1804] Yeah, he'd love to.

[1805] He'd rather meet you at the Ritz, though, instead of this carpet depot you're at.

[1806] You guys, stop.

[1807] I'm teasing.

[1808] I love your tassels.

[1809] I'm sure there's some tuberculosis in them from...

[1810] Don't you dare.

[1811] I'm teasing.

[1812] It looks so beautiful.

[1813] And I think it's a great spot.

[1814] And if you, if they have vacancy and you have the opportunity to stay at Le Hotel.

[1815] That's right.

[1816] The hotel.

[1817] Good luck finding it.

[1818] Was it hard to find when you searched it?

[1819] Because didn't every the hotel come up?

[1820] It's pretty hard to find.

[1821] Yeah.

[1822] Yeah.

[1823] I imagine.

[1824] It'd be like naming a burrito place restaurant near me. Because if you search that, you'd have to comb through so much stuff.

[1825] And in fact, if you weren't near it, You actually couldn't even find it.

[1826] So what are your big plans for tomorrow?

[1827] More shopping?

[1828] Yeah, I'm going to go to the flea market.

[1829] Have you had any fantasies that you're going to bump into Bradley Cooper?

[1830] No, he's not here, right?

[1831] I have no idea, but I know how when you go camping and stuff and you're in his neighborhood, so it only makes sense that you must be sure you're going to bump into him.

[1832] No, I don't think I'm going to.

[1833] But speaking of fantasies, I am having a fancy massage.

[1834] Oh, with the dude?

[1835] Yes.

[1836] With Christian.

[1837] What's his name?

[1838] Laurent.

[1839] Laurent.

[1840] And where is the massage taking place?

[1841] I think he...

[1842] In his apartment?

[1843] Maybe.

[1844] I don't know.

[1845] I don't know.

[1846] I mean, some backstory is Kristen, Amy, and Molly, they were here a few years ago.

[1847] They stumbled upon this guy.

[1848] this massage therapist and he was incredible and they have not been able to stop talking about this person ever since.

[1849] I think you can be more direct.

[1850] All of them were deeply in love with him and they ended up going to his home for dinner and being massaged by him one at a time.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] Now I was very supportive of this as you recall but definitely if everything's reversed you know, me and three dudes at a woman's apartment for dinner and she's massaginous one at a time.

[1853] You know, it was a real out -there experience.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] But highly recommended.

[1856] Very sensual.

[1857] They believe it to be life -changing.

[1858] Yeah.

[1859] And they have not been able to stop talking about it.

[1860] So much so that it's like, okay, how good can it be?

[1861] Sure.

[1862] Oh, I'm so excited to hear.

[1863] Yeah.

[1864] So then Amy was like, you're going to Paris.

[1865] You have to get a massage from.

[1866] So they arranged all this.

[1867] I would say experience, Laurent.

[1868] Exactly.

[1869] So then we've been WhatsApping.

[1870] And so on Sunday, I have two -hour experience.

[1871] Oh, man. At LaRitz or at, oh, again, we don't know.

[1872] Maybe his car, maybe his apartment.

[1873] We don't know.

[1874] Maybe the beach.

[1875] Ooh.

[1876] No, there's like a sauna.

[1877] Oh, wait a minute.

[1878] Tell me about this.

[1879] He said, okay, because he said, do you want an hour, an hour and a half or two hour?

[1880] And I was like, fuck it, two hour.

[1881] Let's go five, Lauren.

[1882] I've got stamina.

[1883] No, I said two hours.

[1884] And then he said, okay, two hours is actually three hours.

[1885] Oh, my God.

[1886] It's already happening.

[1887] Like, what if he said, I use a very specific oil for the breast?

[1888] Should I bring the big bottle or the small bottle?

[1889] Well, I think he knows Because he looked me up on Instagram Oh, great, he's already been on your Instagram Yeah, so he knows about the size of the oil What if he said to you I'm going to be traveling light Do I need to bring a cover -up sheet?

[1890] What are you talking?

[1891] What would you respond?

[1892] No need?

[1893] No, I'd say sure.

[1894] Wait, sure what?

[1895] Don't bring it or bring it?

[1896] No, sure, bring it.

[1897] Okay.

[1898] No, because I want, I want to not be uncomfortable.

[1899] I don't think you can have it all.

[1900] I think if it's going to be sexual, then it's going to be also uncomfortable for a fair amount of that.

[1901] And I want to enjoy the massage.

[1902] Well, no. What if he gives you a by the numbers high quality massage for the first two hours?

[1903] And in fact, this sounds like what he's talking about.

[1904] It's like two hours means three.

[1905] So you'll get two hours of the massage you're asking for.

[1906] And then an hour of me transitioning gently to eroticism.

[1907] Well, maybe.

[1908] We'll see.

[1909] Oh, my God, I'm on pins and needles.

[1910] When will I get an update?

[1911] Sunday?

[1912] Yeah, Sunday.

[1913] Oh, wow.

[1914] Well, no, I think it's three hours because it's like the massage is two hours.

[1915] And then there's like a sauna or something.

[1916] Don't tell Kristen this because she's going to get upset, but he said that when they had him, that was early and now he's a, now it's crazy.

[1917] Oh, my God, you're going to come home pregnant.

[1918] No knots in a bun in the oven.

[1919] Six months pregnant.

[1920] I am off birth control now.

[1921] Oh, man. Bad time to get off birth control.

[1922] Oh, my goodness.

[1923] That's not going to happen.

[1924] It's just going to be a really sensual massage, I think, which I can't.

[1925] You should learn a couple of words in French.

[1926] Merci.

[1927] You know, in preparation of whatever outcome you want.

[1928] Like, it's, you know, you should have a lot of different.

[1929] You mean sexual words?

[1930] Well, like, you should know how to shut it down if you want to shut it down.

[1931] Oh.

[1932] You also should know how to pour gas on the fire if you want them to hit the throttle.

[1933] You know what I'm saying?

[1934] You should have a few, like, wee -wee's not going to cut it.

[1935] You're going to need more.

[1936] I think.

[1937] Wait, oh no. How do you say stop?

[1938] Lebusch is the mouth, right?

[1939] Fairleigh me booge, shut your mouth.

[1940] So, you know, if you in the middle, every two hours in, you just say, la bush, le bush.

[1941] I think he would then think time for kissing and stuff, you know?

[1942] Okay, I am not doing that.

[1943] Oh, my God.

[1944] Oh, my God.

[1945] Oh, my God.

[1946] It is so cringy.

[1947] It also sounds like you're saying my bush.

[1948] Oh.

[1949] Oh, wow.

[1950] Yeah, that too could be exciting for everyone.

[1951] Like you would be telling him, I carry a lot of tension in my bush.

[1952] Oh, my God.

[1953] You say I've been walking all over Europe.

[1954] I just carry so much attention in Labouche.

[1955] Well, I'll report back on this.

[1956] Okay.

[1957] Do you want to switch gears and talk about anything juicy, anything sad.

[1958] I think we're already talking about.

[1959] We've covered juicy.

[1960] Well, we could talk about T. Hanks.

[1961] He was our guest.

[1962] I guess we could.

[1963] Yes.

[1964] What an experience.

[1965] So engaged.

[1966] So much hunger in Mr. Hanks for playfulness.

[1967] He's not over at.

[1968] He's kind of encouraging.

[1969] He's really not.

[1970] Yeah.

[1971] Just very kind.

[1972] Absolutely.

[1973] And I thought there were some really fun moments that were real.

[1974] Moments.

[1975] Yeah, it was great.

[1976] Have you thought about live streaming your massage?

[1977] Instagram Live.

[1978] Put it on OnlyFans.

[1979] A collab.

[1980] Have you done any collabs lately?

[1981] I don't know how.

[1982] I want to do one so bad and I don't know how.

[1983] Will you wait?

[1984] Can we do it together when I get back?

[1985] Yes, of course, of course.

[1986] I tried to collab with you on something and I don't think you accepted it.

[1987] No, I don't know.

[1988] No, I saw, I didn't know what to do.

[1989] I was like, oh, gosh, now what?

[1990] It seems like it's right here for me to do, and I can't.

[1991] It's scary.

[1992] The Internet's hard.

[1993] It is.

[1994] Okay, facts.

[1995] Well, actually, I have a long list of facts because you two are the same.

[1996] Oh, we were the worst.

[1997] You know, I felt very similar to him.

[1998] Yeah.

[1999] Didn't that make you, it's like of all the people to be like.

[2000] What a great person.

[2001] I actually was more like, I left it introspectively thinking, you know, you could be Tom Hanks.

[2002] You could be a multi -academy award winner.

[2003] You could be the biggest movie star of the last 50 years.

[2004] And, you know, I would probably still be trying to impress people.

[2005] Not that he was, but that I would.

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] And it just made me, you know, it was a little bit of a mirror.

[2008] Now, granted, I'm not saying he's like me. I just, I was projecting, and I felt like it was an interesting mirror to hold up to myself.

[2009] Yeah.

[2010] And I do think it's 95 % lovely.

[2011] Yeah.

[2012] In fact, in him, it's 100 % lovely.

[2013] As I said in the episode, I often drive home from places going, God, you should shut the fuck up and let other people talk.

[2014] So I'm critical of that side of myself.

[2015] And I recognize that there'll be no level of validation that will make me not think I've got to win everyone over all the time.

[2016] I already feel like you're already 95 %.

[2017] 5 % this, which is you just like having interesting conversations.

[2018] So you're also bringing up stuff and talking about stuff to spark intellectual debate.

[2019] Yeah, it's certainly not good or bad.

[2020] It's just like who I am.

[2021] And I'm, of course, interested in what percentage of it is that my just love of dancing.

[2022] And then what percentage of it is, please think I'm smart.

[2023] I want to minimize the please think I'm smart and just be pure about why I'm dancing.

[2024] I think that's good.

[2025] That's a good aim.

[2026] I mean, it's just so shocking that you, I mean, we all do this, I guess, with our insecurities, but that you still are trying to prove that.

[2027] It's just so clear and innate.

[2028] I'm just now realizing this as I just laid all that out.

[2029] So I think truly what was going on is I had to make a decision, which was the right decision, which was it is Tom Hanks' time to shine.

[2030] and for me to shut up, which prevented me from trying to impress him as much as I wanted to because I admire him.

[2031] So I think I was maybe feeling the discomfort of making what is the correct decision, but maybe hard for me to make.

[2032] That's probably my weird feeling about the whole thing.

[2033] It's like I left probably going like, good, I didn't monopolize this conversation as much as I want.

[2034] to.

[2035] But then in doing it, I didn't walk away thinking, wow, I really won him over.

[2036] He really is going to think about me in a month.

[2037] Totally.

[2038] So I think there was like some just weird stuff with my own ego that I was wrestling a lot.

[2039] Yeah.

[2040] And I think what's funny is a good interviewer does what you did there.

[2041] A good interviewer isn't someone who's just like good at talking.

[2042] Well, and I know.

[2043] And I, And again, if you plotted where we started and where we're at, I like to think I've been improving.

[2044] Yes, exactly.

[2045] But sometimes it's easier to improve than others.

[2046] Yes, for everyone.

[2047] Yeah, like if it's someone, I don't know, this happened to you early on, which is like you weren't really monitoring how often you speak, but when Mike Scher's here, all of a sudden you're like, you become aware of it.

[2048] Yeah.

[2049] Because, you know, you want that person to like you.

[2050] Definitely.

[2051] And I still have ups and downs with that.

[2052] Yeah, it's just always going to be.

[2053] to work on.

[2054] Okay.

[2055] So we touched on the Kelly bag.

[2056] That was really important.

[2057] Yeah, I hope we helped sell more Kelly bags.

[2058] I really hope for that young brand Hermes.

[2059] Okay, he said he knew the lyrics to Mama said, knock you out.

[2060] Uh -huh.

[2061] L .L. Cool, Jay.

[2062] Yeah.

[2063] And then you were like, oh, you must have been 40 at that time.

[2064] It came out in 1990, and he was born.

[2065] He was born in 1956.

[2066] Okay, 56, 34.

[2067] Yeah, 34.

[2068] So I was off.

[2069] Yeah, I was off.

[2070] Just a little bit.

[2071] That was a great example, by the way.

[2072] You're bringing up a perfect example, which is I know the words to Mama said, knock you out.

[2073] Oh.

[2074] So, of course, I wanted to sing with him, and then I had to literally scream in my head.

[2075] it's not your turn to sing this.

[2076] It is Tom Hanks's turn to sing this.

[2077] Wow.

[2078] But that was an opportunity for, I wanted to let him know I too like that song and know it by heart.

[2079] And I want to demonstrate it to him and I had to go shut the fuck up and let Tom Hanks sing it.

[2080] Wow.

[2081] Good job.

[2082] It was happening all the time, mine.

[2083] Yeah, that's hard.

[2084] No, that's really, I mean, for one, I'll say I didn't pick up on that.

[2085] Good.

[2086] I didn't know that there was so much of a like...

[2087] Internal struggle happening?

[2088] Yes, yes.

[2089] I didn't know that.

[2090] It's so embarrassing.

[2091] No, it's not.

[2092] It's not embarrassing.

[2093] It's human.

[2094] We're all just trying to get approval.

[2095] Yeah.

[2096] Well, the good news is I didn't sing along.

[2097] You didn't.

[2098] Do you want to do it now?

[2099] Oh.

[2100] Are you back?

[2101] Okay, there you are.

[2102] Nope.

[2103] I want to stay strong.

[2104] Okay.

[2105] I want to know that everyone.

[2106] Everyone that already likes me will continue to like me whether I know the words of that song or not.

[2107] Yes, they absolutely will.

[2108] Okay.

[2109] Did Pete Rose play for Cincinnati or Phillies?

[2110] Both.

[2111] Oh, wow.

[2112] Okay.

[2113] Yeah.

[2114] Okay, you said, I'm your Huckleberry in that.

[2115] Uh -huh.

[2116] Do you want to explain the origin?

[2117] Yeah, so the best movie ever made of this time period, Tombstone.

[2118] Val Kilmer played Doc Holliday.

[2119] Doc Holliday many times in the movie.

[2120] Whenever he wanted to tell Wyatt Earp, I got your back, he'd say, I'm your Huckleberry.

[2121] And then I started hearing people debate whether he was saying, I'll be your Huckleberry or I'll be your Huckle Bearer.

[2122] And then I went and looked it up on the internet, and there's like a lively debate what it is because a hucklebearer means I'll be one of your men at your funeral that carries your casket.

[2123] That makes sense.

[2124] I'll be there.

[2125] Even when you're dead.

[2126] Right.

[2127] And then I'll Be Your Huckleberry seems to be what was in the script.

[2128] Now, did the writer of the script conflate the origin of Huckleberry?

[2129] I don't know.

[2130] But there is a lively debate about whether the saying used to be, I'll be your Hucklebearer or I'll be your Huckleberry.

[2131] Well, Val's memoir is called I'm Your Huckleberry.

[2132] I'm your Huckleberry.

[2133] That makes sense.

[2134] Oh, obviously, Huckles are the handles on the side of a caskle.

[2135] I didn't know that.

[2136] Right, okay.

[2137] That huckle bearer, I'll bear the huckle.

[2138] Cool.

[2139] Okay.

[2140] But if Val Kilmer says, I'm your huckleberry, I'm inclined to think those people win that argument.

[2141] Well, but it could still be the same thing that the script was that.

[2142] Right.

[2143] Okay, when Doc Holliday says the phrase, he has his hand on one holstered pistol and he has another weapon ready to fire behind his back.

[2144] Well, that's the moment in the movie where he said, I'm your Huckleberry because he had a secret gun behind.

[2145] He was going to protect Wyatt in that moment.

[2146] I think that's what that's referencing.

[2147] This is saying it's him saying he's the right person for the job.

[2148] Yeah, I agree.

[2149] I got your back.

[2150] I'm the right person for the job.

[2151] But the question is, why is Huckleberry mean that?

[2152] And some people on the Internet say it's an bastardization of Hucklebearer.

[2153] Whatever.

[2154] I don't have a dog in this fight.

[2155] Okay.

[2156] Percentage of population that's gay.

[2157] This was in 2019, U .S. adults to estimate that nearly one in four Americans are gay or lesbian.

[2158] One in four?

[2159] That's what this says.

[2160] Boy, you got to wonder, because I grew up in freshman year of college being told it was 10%.

[2161] So you got to wonder, has the population changed, or has the polling changed, has the comfort level of answering yes?

[2162] Yes.

[2163] Hard to know, right?

[2164] I think all.

[2165] Yeah, probably all.

[2166] Which is why that number is a lot higher.

[2167] Okay.

[2168] Herman Hess, he came up and then there was a whole thing about books, and then Tom was asking me to say my favorite Herman Hess novel, and I said Harry Potter.

[2169] And then you said, I think you said, like, you could say Beowulf.

[2170] But that's Steppenwolf.

[2171] Oh, wait, wait.

[2172] The name of the book is Steppenwolf?

[2173] Stepan Wolf is by Herman Hess.

[2174] Oh.

[2175] That's not Beowulf.

[2176] Bayowulf is like old.

[2177] Like it's first printed edition in 1815.

[2178] It's not Herman Hess.

[2179] Okay.

[2180] I want to look up the image, though, for Beowulf right now if I can.

[2181] Yeah.

[2182] Like, we had to read that in, like, high school.

[2183] Baylewolf or Steppenwolf?

[2184] Beowulf.

[2185] And it's like Old English.

[2186] Okay, so, and now I'm going to look up Steppenwolf.

[2187] The only reason I even, well, I had it wrong, but the only reason I even knew it, let me bring up this image.

[2188] I'm pretty sure I'm going to find out.

[2189] Yeah, okay.

[2190] So this, can you see that?

[2191] Uh -huh.

[2192] Yeah, Steppenwolf.

[2193] Jason Delion, who we interviewed, who's now a tenured professor at UCLA, I don't know if you noticed on his forearm, he had that tattoo.

[2194] No way.

[2195] Yeah, very cool tattoo.

[2196] And he had it when we were in, college, and I asked him what it was, and he said it was a Herman Hess thing.

[2197] And then I wrongly thought that was Beowulf.

[2198] Oh, but it's Steppenwolf.

[2199] Steppenwolf.

[2200] Cool tattoo to have on your forearm, I guess, if you're an archaeology major.

[2201] Yeah, very cool.

[2202] Okay, he said that Buddha was a prince who sat outside his palace to achieve enlightenment.

[2203] Sadartha, who then was Buddha, the Buddha, was born into a wealthy family as a prince in present day Nepal.

[2204] Although he had an easy life, he was moved by suffering in the world.

[2205] He decided to give up his lavish lifestyle and endure poverty.

[2206] When this didn't fulfill him, he promoted the idea of the, quote, middle way, which means existing between two extremes.

[2207] Thus, he sought a life without social indulgences, but also without deprivation.

[2208] People believe that he found enlightenment while meditating under a tree, bodhi tree, B -O -D -H -I.

[2209] And then he spent the rest of his life teaching others about how to achieve this spiritual state.

[2210] It doesn't say anything about him stepping outside his house and sitting there.

[2211] Okay.

[2212] And also, it didn't say anything at least just there about him going into the city and becoming a wealthy businessman and getting fat, eating food, and then being deathly.

[2213] That's the part I remember that I might be wrong about.

[2214] It doesn't say that here, but this is just a very brief.

[2215] It is history .com, very trusted brand.

[2216] We love it.

[2217] We absolutely swear by history.

[2218] But I mean, I'm sure there's more to it.

[2219] So yeah, that part could definitely be true.

[2220] You didn't say that in the interview, though.

[2221] I'd love to tell you that I've stopped thinking about Loran, but I just haven't.

[2222] Well, okay.

[2223] I understand.

[2224] I understand.

[2225] Open mind, clear eyes, full heart.

[2226] You can't lose.

[2227] Maybe I should learn how to say that in French.

[2228] Oh, my God.

[2229] That would be so confusing to anyone.

[2230] What is, what did she just, what does that mean?

[2231] Oh, my God.

[2232] Well, that's all the fact.

[2233] I mean, I did look up that Bosco syrup because he brought that up a couple times.

[2234] And I never heard of that chocolate syrup.

[2235] But he acted like, that was the fanciest kind.

[2236] Mm -hmm.

[2237] And it is real.

[2238] Yeah.

[2239] It's like, what, a Nesley's Quick, a Hershey's chocolate syrup.

[2240] Well, I think it's supposed to be fancier than, or like that was the one people wanted.

[2241] Do you see it?

[2242] Oh, it looks cheap.

[2243] I mean, not like a bad product, but it looks inexpensive.

[2244] It's a plastic bottle with a...

[2245] I agree.

[2246] You know, it's not a glass jar.

[2247] $7 .86 on Amazon.

[2248] $7 .86?

[2249] Yeah.

[2250] That's pretty expensive, I guess.

[2251] All right, now I'm in.

[2252] Now we want it.

[2253] Yeah.

[2254] Have Lauren throw some of that in his kit.

[2255] Oh, God.

[2256] Well, I'm so glad you're having a fun end of your trip.

[2257] You deserve it.

[2258] Thanks.

[2259] I'm ready to be back.

[2260] I mean, I'm having a lot of fun, a lot, a lot of fun.

[2261] But I am ready to be back in the attic and back in my routine.

[2262] Yeah.

[2263] Routines are great, man. Yeah.

[2264] Just when you're getting sick of your routine.

[2265] You get out of it for a while, you're like, I like that routine.

[2266] Yeah, it's just like a wave of so much gratitude.

[2267] So much gratitude to be here, to be in Spain, and all of it's so amazing.

[2268] And then also the feeling that I'm also excited to go back to my normal life is so lucky.

[2269] Yeah, I totally agree.

[2270] It's very special.

[2271] We had Matt and Laura over last night.

[2272] They came over, and then we just chatted for a long time, and I was like, Oh, yes.

[2273] This is as exotic as any location.

[2274] Absolutely.

[2275] I agree.

[2276] Yeah.

[2277] Yeah.

[2278] All right.

[2279] Well, I love you and I'm excited for you to get back.

[2280] Me too.

[2281] Love you.

[2282] Bye.

[2283] Bye.

[2284] Have fun.

[2285] Bye.

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