Don’t Be Your Own Worst Enemy!

[0] of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Not the fake kind, the real kind.

[2] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Rachel Cruz, host of the Rachel Cruz show that you can find on YouTube, also Smart Money Happy Hour.

[3] Love that.

[4] Right.

[5] Also, the author of I'm glad for what I have.

[6] Listen, the list goes on.

[7] Oh, Jay, it's good to be here with you.

[8] Love it.

[9] All right, if you want to talk about your life or your money, you can give us a call.

[10] The number is 388 -825 -5 -2 -25, and we will do exactly that.

[11] So let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Nicole and San Francisco, California.

[12] What's going on, Nicole?

[13] Hi, Jade.

[14] Thanks for taking my call.

[15] No problem.

[16] So my question is, I live in a very extensive area.

[17] Half of my take -home check goes to my rent.

[18] I work remotely, so it's kind of ridiculous that I'm seeing here.

[19] And I'm thinking about moving to Mexico, or moving to Texas.

[20] I see that the new constructions in Texas, they have lower interest rates, like 4 .9 % interest rates, whereas the interest rates right now are 7%.

[21] And I'm wondering if that's too good to be true.

[22] Why are the new construction interest rates so low and attractive?

[23] And should it be something that I pursue.

[24] I have heard of new construction being able to offer lower rates.

[25] I guess they're eating that cost at some point within the process.

[26] I just love that you're looking at your situation and saying, listen, it's too expensive for me to live here rather than continue to struggle.

[27] I'm going to embrace new opportunities.

[28] So I don't think it's too good to be true.

[29] Does your question go further?

[30] No, yeah.

[31] I was wondering if there was like some sort of trick that there's, doing that I'm not understanding um you know also it's a it's a big move for me and it's something that I want to do because I am single and just live by myself and my dog and um if I were to move to Texas and save money I'll be able to pay for egg freezing which is something that my job doesn't help pay for and it's also something that I was like I know I don't want to finance it they have a lot of payment plans for egg freezing.

[32] Yeah.

[33] And it's something that if I moved to Texas, I could save money because, I mean, the, even a mortgage payment is going to be way lower than what I pay for rent right now.

[34] Yeah, and we're seeing that, Nicole, I mean, like your situation, it's very common.

[35] And we're seeing that a lot with people in these like really high priced areas, especially where you are, San Francisco, the Bay Area.

[36] I mean, I think it's number one right now in the most expensive places to live.

[37] But you look at people in New York and, you know, different places.

[38] And we're seeing that people are gravitated.

[39] obviously to places that they can actually have an affordable lifestyle and actually enjoy their money versus being taxed high, real estate being insane, you know, and experiencing exactly what you're experiencing.

[40] So just know you're not alone in that change, even though that's a big change.

[41] You're right.

[42] I'm like, when you decide to change locations and states and it is, I mean, you're uprooting your life.

[43] But I think what you have to realize is you're doing it for a reason, right?

[44] You're not necessarily running away from something, right?

[45] You're running to the life that you want, and in order to get that and do the things that you want to do, like freeze your eggs and different things, you have to have more margin.

[46] And so that means other areas of your life are going to have to look different in order to do that.

[47] And so you're just kind of weighing the pros and cons.

[48] And I really applaud you for that.

[49] And it's not easy.

[50] But it's a reality.

[51] I think a lot of people, a lot of people are facing.

[52] 100%.

[53] And here's the thing, even if you get there and you realize, oh, man, whatever they quoted me on the interest rate, it's slightly higher or it's not quite that it's still a better situation financially you're going to you're still going to get more for your money you're still going to be able to afford owning a home or getting a place for yourself more easily so what are you looking to spend can you tell us a little bit about what you're looking to spend obviously 50 % having your rent or your mortgage be 50 % of your income is just not sustainable long term so have you identified a number that puts it at 25 % and what you could spend in order to get that yeah So I was looking at homes around 300 ,000, which here, I would be $1 .5 million.

[54] Yeah, exactly.

[55] It's crazy, crazy.

[56] Well, good for you, Nicole.

[57] Yeah, I think it's great.

[58] And I think, you know, I think builders are feeling a little bit of the pinch of people pulling back.

[59] When rates went up, suddenly everyone kind of paused and they're like, I'll just wait to see if rates drop.

[60] And then when they drop, they probably will.

[61] They're going to fluctuate.

[62] We're in an election year.

[63] Things are always kind of up and down.

[64] and then when they drop everybody's gotta be how the one works and I think Jay to just drives prices back up so if anything the time is to get in now and you can always refinance later but if you're in a good position to buy a home I'm not saying everyone needs to rush out and buy a home but I think her Nicole's a great example of kind of looking at all your options being wise and I think yeah homes are not selling have not sold at least in the calendar year of 2023 like they were in 22 and 21 so I think builders are feeling a little bit of that pinch.

[65] They're probably wanting some inventory off their hands.

[66] And if they can partner with, you know, the bank and all the things and get a lower rate, they're probably doing that to entice people.

[67] But obviously, Nicole, do your due diligence.

[68] I mean, your home is for most people, the largest purchase that you make in your lifetime.

[69] So don't rush into something.

[70] Because I think sometimes, at times, at times, even these new builds, if they go real quick up, they may not be the best quality.

[71] I mean, you want to look at for sure.

[72] Quality, look at, you know, different areas and all.

[73] of it.

[74] So do your research because it's a big change and a big purchase.

[75] And even Nicole, what you could do is since you're moving to a brand new state, you can even rent, which I know you're so tired of renting right now, but you really could for six months to a year just to be like, okay, is this the part of Texas I want to be in?

[76] Because once you buy a home, you're planted there for a bit.

[77] Yeah, a completely new state, completely new culture.

[78] I 100 % agree with Rachel in that.

[79] I would rent for them.

[80] And I would definitely would not do like a long, long distance home purchase of like I wouldn't do that but to your point um I have like there are new builders that are offering those kind of incentives on the rate um because we had callers call in saying listen I'm trying to sell my property and it's hard for me because I'm having to compete with a new builder around the corner who's offering a lower yeah you know so that is definitely happening so just do your due diligence do your homework don't just jump out there and buy the first thing you see that seems right because, I mean, I think it takes a while, Rachel, to really get the feel of a new neighborhood, let alone a new city, let alone a new state.

[81] Like, there's a lot on this.

[82] Totally.

[83] Yes.

[84] So.

[85] Yep, absolutely.

[86] Yeah.

[87] And I think Nicole, too, I do, I do applaud you just for looking at options because Jade, we talk to a lot of people and they're stuck, I feel like we always pick on California.

[88] But California is expensive.

[89] Your real estate is high and it's a high cost of living.

[90] So it's an easy place to pick on.

[91] But, you know, a lot of people and they're like, well, I'm in California.

[92] I'm in California.

[93] This is it.

[94] This is it.

[95] And you have to realize about anything in life, which again, I know uprooting your life is a big deal.

[96] So I'm not saying it flippantly.

[97] But I just love the fact that she is taking initiative and saying, hey, I can make choices in my life.

[98] That's right.

[99] And for me to have the kind of life that I want, it's going to require some changes.

[100] And so for some of you, maybe it's changing your money habits.

[101] For some of you, it's changing location.

[102] I mean, I don't know what it looks like for you.

[103] But this idea that I have control over my life and I get to make decisions for myself.

[104] It's powerful.

[105] That's right.

[106] And remember, it's not just change for the sake of change.

[107] It's changed to get you where you want to go.

[108] You want to be a homeowner.

[109] You want to have more margin in your budget.

[110] You want to be able to enjoy your income.

[111] So focus on that side instead of focusing on the uncomfortable part, you know, the change or I may not know anybody.

[112] And just like, think of it as an adventure.

[113] You're off on an adventure to create the life you love in the words of Rachel Cruz.

[114] That's right, Jade.

[115] This is the Ramsey Show.

[116] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[117] I'm Jade Warshall.

[118] This is Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls for the next couple hours about your life and your money.

[119] So give us a call.

[120] The number is triple 8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -25, and we would be happy to answer any of the questions that you have.

[121] In the meantime, the Ramsey Show question the day is brought to you by Neighborly, Your Hub for Home Services.

[122] Neighborly offers a helpful winter maintenance checklist that you can download for free at Neighborly .com.

[123] That would be very helpful for me. And for the more challenging stuff in and around your home, Neighborly has a local pro to help find out more at neighborly .com slash Ramsey and today's question comes from Heather in Wyoming.

[124] I'm a stay -at -home mom and this has been the most stressful, painful past two years of my life with my husband making horrible financial decisions that left us over $500 ,000 in debt.

[125] He owns a tree service business making $70 ,000 a year and is trying to start a mobile mechanic business and has purchased an investment property.

[126] We have a hundred $163 ,000 mortgage on our house.

[127] The rent is a total disaster that's completely, the rental, I'm sorry, the rental is a total disaster that's completely gutted, and we have to make payments every month while earning no income with it and no progress on the repairs.

[128] He also bought a brand new truck that we owe now $84 ,000 on, and $18 ,000 on a bobcat for the business, a $20 ,000 home equity loan that he used to fix up the rent.

[129] oh and over $5 ,000 in credit cards.

[130] He keeps saying he's working on it, and he is a hard worker, but has put us in a completely impossible situation that angers me and stresses me out every single day.

[131] I work odd hours because we can't afford child care, nor do I want to give up time with my kids to fix a problem that I did not cause.

[132] I feel so stuck and hopeless.

[133] All right.

[134] Can we just, listen, I wrote it all out because I'm trying to track with this.

[135] Okay, Heather, this is not a, you shouldn't be this way.

[136] She's very bitter.

[137] As we can tell.

[138] Very resentful, which, again, is valid, is valid.

[139] But they feel like not only different pages financially, but they have been split now emotionally, really severed.

[140] I mean, she wants, it sounds like she wants nothing to do, I mean, nothing to do with them.

[141] Oh, and $5 ,000 in credit card.

[142] You know what I mean, it is.

[143] Stuck and hopeless.

[144] is she is not not in a good place which which I get it Heather I'm like yeah all these decisions were not wise decisions made the he made decisions without obviously talking to her or working as a team so what do we do Heather what are we going to do?

[145] I'm seeking counsel number one like I always talk to folks about keeping their money safe Rachel and it's kind of like an acronym and the first thing to to decide like where you're at so S is for seeking counsel like if you're noticing trends within your money, with your spouse, that you're like, what's going on here?

[146] I feel uncomfortable.

[147] I feel unsafe financially.

[148] I feel like there's something going on.

[149] See, counsel.

[150] And then you're going to find, listen, if there's things like addiction, abuse, that's the A. Yeah.

[151] And then F is financial infidelity, which this is getting real close to falling under.

[152] In my opinion, it is, because he's going out and spending massive amounts of money without your permit.

[153] Permit.

[154] Permission.

[155] Your input.

[156] Yeah.

[157] Without a mattering.

[158] And then the E of that is you need to evaluate.

[159] your options like so that's how you go through this and I do think that this is a sometimes people think financial infidelity is like I'm just hiding money under the mattress or something like that but I'm like this is a lot of money and it sounds like we don't know Rachel but it sounds like she has made her objections clear and it sounds like we could be wrong it might be something that he did and then after the fact she was like well how could you do that but even still you've got this is there's financial issues here but when I look at this, I go, this is a couple who desperately needs to go to therapy.

[160] Like, they need, they need help.

[161] And, um, yeah.

[162] And he's, he's obviously not living in reality.

[163] No. And there's people like that that we talk to.

[164] And I hate to like pinpoint people, but it's the dreamers.

[165] It's the, oh, I have, I have an idea.

[166] And this idea is going to work.

[167] Or I have a new idea here.

[168] And don't worry.

[169] Don't worry.

[170] This is surely going to.

[171] And it is, it's a level of immaturity to a point when you actually make decisions in those dreams and they don't come to fruition.

[172] You have to reality to say, I can't do this anymore.

[173] So there's a safety here, Heather, that I would want for you, like a point where you're like, I can't, I can't keep putting myself.

[174] There's a level of danger there in this situation that's endangering my kids in my feeling.

[175] That is what it is.

[176] So that weight that your feeling is very, very real.

[177] And I just want him to wake up to the reality.

[178] And I think what's going to have to happen is a third party.

[179] You're probably not going to be the one to do it, Heather, sadly.

[180] And I think sometimes, I mean, it's like our spouse, I mean, all of us feel that way with our spouses.

[181] There's always that thing that you're like, if you know, this, this or this.

[182] And you can say it and then it ends up being nagging.

[183] And it's not effective.

[184] But when you actually sit down with a third party, usually if it's coming from someone else, it's speaking there.

[185] But that's it.

[186] I'm like the financial issues here are a symptom of where you guys are in your marriage.

[187] And again, I don't blame you, Heather, for being angry and better.

[188] But what are we going to do with that?

[189] We can't just sit in that and continue to be in that cycle.

[190] You, Heather, have to then.

[191] grow and learn are there boundaries you put up now is there like what do you do now what are those steps yes that's right which is really hard but that's the situation yeah that's right because something's something's got to change and in a situation like this not to belabor it but there's very little you can do to control the other party like there's nothing you can do really to control the other party but you've got to sit down and figure out okay what am i heather going to do uh in order to try to better the situation i can seek out counsel i can put these boundaries in place But then you've also got to kind of have that point of where you go, okay, where does this just get completely toxic?

[192] And, you know, that's up to you and like Rachel said, a third party to decide.

[193] And Jade, we talk all the time about couples staying on the same page, being on the same team, all of this.

[194] But there's extreme situations that we talk about a lot.

[195] And I mean, Heather, maybe one of those for me where I'm like, there's a point that you have to protect yourself and your kids, right?

[196] Like, if he's going to continue to spend, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[197] like I don't want my name on those.

[198] I don't want my name on that.

[199] And if you're headed towards a, I'm not putting this, I'm not putting this evil on you.

[200] But if you're heading towards a point where like, listen, I don't know if I see us together in the future, the more he racks up, like I don't want to be any part of that.

[201] Because if you don't stick together, there's like, I'm looking like, is this part of this going to be on me?

[202] No, you know.

[203] Yeah.

[204] So for the time being, Heather, there's probably some hard boundaries I would put up to protect you and the kids.

[205] But working on your marriage could solve a lot of this.

[206] And then my prayer is that they would get to a point, that they're in agreement and realize, okay, he's not going to, he's not going to do X, Y, and Z. And now as a team, we have to work together.

[207] And if you guys get to that point, Heather, that's where you have to say, all right, we're in this together.

[208] What are we going to do?

[209] That's right.

[210] And then it's on both of you to just link arms and get out of it together.

[211] Yep.

[212] And that's what we pray for.

[213] We don't want this to split couples.

[214] But this is, this is the stuff that causes divorce and marriages, right?

[215] If another spouse doesn't want to take the responsibility of the decisions they've made, they're probably not taking responsibility in other parts of the marriage too.

[216] That's hard.

[217] So hard.

[218] So hard.

[219] Such a good point.

[220] And such a good reminder, man. It's uncomfortable and it is not fun.

[221] But have conversations with that person that you're engaged to or even that person that you're dating.

[222] And if you've just gotten married, start having these conversations, you've got to know the other person's philosophy on money at the end of the day and not just make assumptions and go, oh, they've got a good job.

[223] They probably have it together or they don't seem like they have a lot of debt.

[224] Like, really digging deeper and figuring out and just asking you know even when you dream together rachel like i know there's time sam and i will sit together and think about oh it would be cool to have a business like that one day then take it at level deeper and go well to what extremes would you go like i would never take out money for a business would you you know really ask the questions find ways to bring money into the conversation so you really understand and a lot of different facets what their views are on money because as we see here it can really be an issue long term such attention point so yeah it's a big it's a big relational wedge that's caused so yeah you're exactly right and I think you know especially when you're dating engaged we get this question a lot of you know when do I bring up the money when do I all of it and you know we would always encourage to be having hard conversations about everything right and and we've talked to people in the show that I've been dating for six years and they don't they don't anything about their partner's financial situation and they think this or that and I remember being on the show with you one time we're like what do they talk about?

[225] I know so take this stuff seriously you guys I'm like don't like ask about their 401k on the first date but that's a little extreme but start you know understanding like to be in the same value system with the person you're going to link arms with and yeah but it's it's a hard one it reveals a lot listen I say all the time if you have babies together you can share a bank account like that That needs to be it, in both people's opinions should matter.

[226] And sometimes it takes some time in many, many conversations and counseling to get to that point.

[227] But go through that journey.

[228] This is The Ramsey Show.

[229] This is the Ramsey Show.

[230] I'm Jade Warshot.

[231] This is Rachel Cruz to my right, and we're taking your calls.

[232] So give us a call.

[233] The number is triple 8, 8255 -225, and we'll try to help you out.

[234] Let's go straight to the phone lines where we have Avery and Newport News, Virginia.

[235] What's going on, Avery?

[236] Hey, Jaden, Rachel.

[237] It's so great to talk to you.

[238] I can't wish to you guys in May. Awesome.

[239] Oh, you're coming to the total money makeover weekend.

[240] Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[241] And I'm bringing a friend, too.

[242] Love it.

[243] That's exciting.

[244] Ooh, love that.

[245] How can we help today?

[246] All right.

[247] So here is the situation.

[248] My mom always says the strongest thing in the universe is compound interest.

[249] My brother always says time in the market beats timing the market every time.

[250] Let's go.

[251] And I thought I was smart enough to time.

[252] a dip.

[253] I had about $21 ,000 worth in a Fidelity Mutual Fund in my Roth IRA, and I sold my positions on it back in September.

[254] I was going off a bad hunch and have watched the market rally by like at least 20 percent cents, and I calculated that I missed out on about $4 ,000 worth of gross.

[255] I'm kicking myself.

[256] I still contribute weekly, but that $21 ,000 is still sitting there in the account.

[257] I feel like I've learned my lesson, but what do I do now?

[258] Should I buy back in or should I wait for the rally to end and maybe buy in at a dip?

[259] Listen, I'm first, I'm glad that you've learned your lesson and I hope that it sticks.

[260] Do you have any debt?

[261] I have no debt.

[262] Okay.

[263] Do you have three to six months of expenses saved?

[264] Yes, I do.

[265] Awesome.

[266] Listen, I'm getting back in today.

[267] And from here on out, I'm adding 15 % of my gross income to it every single month.

[268] Okay.

[269] Today?

[270] Yeah.

[271] Yeah.

[272] How are you feeling?

[273] Are your armpit sweating?

[274] What's going on?

[275] Yeah, I feel like, I don't know if I buy now.

[276] I feel like it's so high.

[277] If you wait, you're timing the market again.

[278] That means you haven't learned your lesson again.

[279] Avery.

[280] Yes.

[281] Okay.

[282] Yeah, because Avery, I think the point, the point, though, is, is that all of this is long term, right?

[283] So whether you get in today, whether you get in 30 days, whatever it is, the earlier you get in, in and you ride this out, again, long term, we're talking decades here, that's what's important.

[284] So $4 ,000 at the end of, you know, when you're 65, it's going to be a drop in the bucket.

[285] Because how old are you now?

[286] I'm 25.

[287] Yeah.

[288] So like all of the, I mean, it is.

[289] If you time it, if Avery of February of 24 is different than Avery and July of 24.

[290] I mean, like, you know, if you wait six months or whatever, it's not.

[291] absolutely the end of the world, but I think it's more about the principle behind this, right?

[292] The idea is that I can't time the market.

[293] It's an election year.

[294] We have no clue what's going to happen.

[295] And so if anything, I'm like, yeah, the lesson is I'm not going to try to try to time the market.

[296] The lesson is I want to invest long term.

[297] That's what I'm doing.

[298] So to practice on the principle of the idea is to say, yeah, I'm at a position to start investing.

[299] Put my money in the market.

[300] Yeah.

[301] Okay.

[302] And so even if I buy in today and then it goes down, like, I feel like I'm going to kick myself again.

[303] Avery, you're not going to worry about it until you're 65.

[304] How old are you?

[305] It's 24, 25.

[306] Listen, think about it.

[307] Okay.

[308] If you, I think you're focusing, and Rachel tried to lay it out for you.

[309] And I think she did a beautiful job, but let me take a swing at it.

[310] I think you're so focused in whatever rate of return that you're hoping to get immediately.

[311] or in the next couple of months.

[312] But if you look at it, like, I don't know if you're new to the show, but we talk all the time about, oh, you can get, you know, even if you just invest in an S &P 500 account, you're still going to look at about 10 % over time.

[313] Everything is over time.

[314] And if you're pulling it out every month or every other month or when you think the market is dipping, you're not allowing for the rebound that always happens on the other end of that.

[315] And you can look over the last 20 years, even.

[316] You can just see, listen, the annualized rate of return has been upwards of 10 % and that's what you can count on.

[317] That's why we suggest what we suggest and that's why everybody invests in these accounts in order to have their retirement.

[318] Avery, I say this in the most loving, big sister way that I can, you are going to be your worst enemy, okay?

[319] You're going to be the person that's going on CNBC and watching the ticker at the bottom.

[320] Daily.

[321] And saying, oh gosh, oh, gosh, Avery, you have to put money in and you've got to forget about it that's what this is this part of investing is that it is long -term retirement type mentality and and it's going to take some it's going to take some uh restraint from you and your personality because already i'm trying to talk you off the ledge and your money's not even in the market you know what avery you have to really avery is who really is who really needs a smart vestor pro because one of the things that they will help you do is not freak out talk you off the ledge yes yes yes exactly yeah so it is one of those things Avery you I mean I never really I mean I watch the market for this job so we know what's going on in the economy but from a personal standpoint I'm like and it kind of sucks for me Avery from a personally because I'm like I'm such a spender and when we fund our 401Ks and Roths and all the things that we're supposed to do because we're smart and we're wise and we actually do it Jade even though it kind of makes me like because it feels like a black hole and I'm like this money is leaving where we could be going on a great vacation the summer.

[322] That is hilarious.

[323] So it does kind of feel like, man, my money is just leaving and I'm never going to see it again.

[324] But you have to have the, you have to know that 65 year old Avery is going to want to live a great life.

[325] And you're going to have plenty of money to do that Avery if you start investing now and not try to time every little thing because when you're in that little situation, that's the principle you live by.

[326] You're not going to win long term because you have to have a long term mentality.

[327] Yeah, you can't do the.

[328] I feel like he's trying to find a way to maybe make this thing happen faster and get rich quick.

[329] And I'm like, listen, it doesn't work that way.

[330] And if it does, I feel like it's a fluke.

[331] And then everybody tries to figure out what it was that they did.

[332] And it's like, listen, just understand.

[333] It was just something that happened in a moment.

[334] So, ooh, I hope that helps.

[335] Let's take another call.

[336] Let's go to Haley in Philadelphia.

[337] All right, Haley, what's going on?

[338] Hey, guys.

[339] Thanks to take my call.

[340] You're welcome.

[341] How can we help?

[342] My question is, I'm wondering if I should sell my car to pay off my student loans or if I should keep my car paid off tomorrow and follow the babysets to pay off my student loans.

[343] Okay.

[344] Well, how much do you have saved and how much is the car bringing if you sell it?

[345] So I have $10 ,000 saved and the car value on Kelly Blue Book is $15 ,000.

[346] Okay.

[347] Do you owe anything on the car?

[348] So, yeah, I owe five.

[349] Okay.

[350] So essentially you'd be...

[351] How much is your student loans?

[352] I have $17 ,000 in student loans.

[353] Okay.

[354] How much do you make a year?

[355] I make $70.

[356] Okay.

[357] No, I would not sell this car.

[358] No. You owe $5 ,000.

[359] Throw $5 ,000 of the $10 ,000.

[360] I haven't paid off today.

[361] And it's gone.

[362] And then you have, yeah, $4 ,000, keep $1 ,000 in an emergency fund, take $4 ,000.

[363] throw it at, yeah, the student loans.

[364] And gosh, and you got 13 ,000, making 70 ,000, you're going, yeah, you'll be able to pay off these student loans quick.

[365] Yeah, I love it.

[366] Okay.

[367] Yeah, I would not sell it.

[368] Okay, perfect.

[369] And I'm, right now, I'm putting 11 % of my, take on pay into my 401K.

[370] So I'm assuming I should probably stop that.

[371] Yes, that's right.

[372] Pause that.

[373] Yep, exactly.

[374] So that'll be more money back in your paycheck to throw at the debt, which is, which is awesome.

[375] Yeah.

[376] I mean, if you had, like, we talked to a girl, um, two days ago, me and George did, and she had a SUV BMW.

[377] She could sell it for like $70 ,000.

[378] I mean, it was a pretty big, like, chunk, you know, she owed some money on it.

[379] She could have paid it off with her stuff, all this stuff.

[380] But I'm like, but I mean, like, it was a, it was a, you know, an asset that was like, oh my gosh, you could sell it and make something.

[381] But no, you, yeah, with a $15 ,000 car, you owe five, you make $70, you're in a great position just to sell it.

[382] And you have that $10 ,000 saved, which is awesome.

[383] Ooh, that's great.

[384] And I, I mean, the reason why I wanted to sell my car to begin, with.

[385] I said because I live in, I live in Philly, so I don't, and I work from home.

[386] So I'm literally using my car once a week, and that's probably like, go see my parents.

[387] Um, so that was kind of my, but I mean, it makes sense too.

[388] I mean, it's, I don't feel like it's something that's on fire for you to make that choice right away.

[389] I'm with Rachel.

[390] If you, if you still owed 15 on it, it might be a different discussion, but the fact that you only owe five and you have the five in your possession and you still have money to make decent headway on the student loan, I feel like it's something that after you pay off the car and maybe a year from now if you're like listen I never use this car you might decide to sell it but for now sticking with it listen good job I'm happy for you you'll be debt free in no time this is the Ramsey show this show is sponsored by BetterHelp hey good folks the back to school madness is upon us it's hitting us right now we got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[391] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[392] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[393] Here's what I've learned.

[394] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[395] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[396] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[397] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[398] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

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[403] Never skip therapy day.

[404] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[405] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[406] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[407] You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

[408] I'm Jade Warshot.

[409] This is Rachel Cruz.

[410] And let me tell you something.

[411] I'm hyped, guys, because we have a great live event coming up in the late spring.

[412] Actually, it's May 10th through 11th.

[413] It's the total money makeover weekend.

[414] And listen, I've been here for some really great live events, Rachel, but I think this might be the one that I'm most excited about.

[415] It's going to be all the personalities.

[416] It's a whole weekend here in Nashville at our live event center up there on a beautiful hill with a beautiful view of Nashville in the surrounding area.

[417] And we're just giving you a crash course on the baby steps, how to manage your money.

[418] I love this event because it's really for anybody, regardless of where you are in the baby steps.

[419] You could be on baby step one or baby step seven.

[420] And you're really going to benefit from being at this event.

[421] It's like a rally, Rachel.

[422] I'm here for it.

[423] And you know, at Ramsey, we've done so many different types of events, like you said.

[424] And we try to cover, you know, some events we try to cover your whole life and we try to, you know, do it all.

[425] But it is fun to kind of focus in on a subject.

[426] like money, which Ramsey's, you know, it's what we talk about most of the time here on the show.

[427] And so to have a whole weekend dedicated to that and really have the time to walk through principles and ideas and motivation and fun.

[428] George and I are going to do a smart money happy hour live broadcast the Friday before.

[429] I think I'm allowed to say that.

[430] Go ahead and say it.

[431] If you didn't, yeah, if I wasn't supposed to, sorry.

[432] And yeah, there's just some really fun things we're going to be doing.

[433] And if you were a fan of the content on this show and other you're going to love this weekend.

[434] It's a really fun.

[435] Listen, I'm excited.

[436] I had a meeting yesterday with one of our folks on staff who helps plan the content and I told her one of my ideas.

[437] It's out of the box, Rachel.

[438] You're always good at that.

[439] It's going to be fun.

[440] So early bird tickets start at $99, but remember it's for a limited time.

[441] So go to ramsysolutions .com slash events today because Rachel and I both know these tickets sell out super fast.

[442] And if you want that early bird pricing, you got to do it today or like tomorrow this weekend.

[443] you just got paid so go on ahead and do it it's $99 get that now at ramsysolutions .com slash events that's exciting man after that I feel like we have to go to the phone lines if you want to call in the numbers triple 8 8255 -225 and we'll try to get to your call but in the meantime we had Madison in Tampa Florida what's going on Madison hi guys thanks for taking my call so I'm just in a predicament I just found out that I will be terminated from my job that been at for almost five years, um, as July 31st of this year.

[444] Sorry.

[445] I'm so sorry.

[446] What do you do?

[447] Um, I'm currently a business financial administrator.

[448] Um, for a sales and marketing company.

[449] Okay.

[450] Um, yeah.

[451] Uh, I make about $43 ,000 a year at this job.

[452] Um, so I have six months to plan.

[453] Um, we're not officially terminated until July 31st.

[454] And at that time, we will receive severance, although I don't know how much okay um i keep going i don't currently have anything in savings and i'm worried about what's coming next yeah yeah so madison the way i would handle this you know when we um talk to people who are paying off debt and there's a big life change that they are aware of most of the time it's a baby right they're pregnant and we call it stork mode pause the the debt snowball and just pile it money And I would say the same would be true if someone knows that they're going to relocates and they know that they're going to have some moving expenses.

[455] We'd say put some of that money aside.

[456] And for you, thank God, you have six months, which is a gift to at least know that they're not coming in.

[457] And they're like, today's your last day.

[458] Honestly.

[459] So for now, I would save, you know, as much as possible.

[460] I would be in that mode of saving, saving, saving.

[461] Do you have a lot of debt?

[462] So I have about $13 ,000 in debt.

[463] What's it in?

[464] And the majority of it, student loans.

[465] Okay.

[466] I just recently got my accounting, my associate's degree in accounting.

[467] Okay.

[468] Okay.

[469] So, yeah, so what I would do, I would be saving Madison.

[470] And then, I mean, I would start looking, what, Mayish and say, hey, I'm going to, or even line up a job sooner than that and just say, I'm trying to do it now.

[471] Would you leave the job?

[472] I always wonder about that.

[473] They give you six months.

[474] I mean, if you know, if you know what's happening in six months, I don't, I would not wait to, I personally would not wait to the wire.

[475] Yeah.

[476] I don't, I'll be honest.

[477] you, Madison.

[478] I don't know a ton about the financial admin space.

[479] Is there a lot of jobs out there?

[480] Is it easy to just kind of go and apply for something and get it?

[481] Or do you feel like, you know, that it could be a couple of months to find something?

[482] What do you think?

[483] Have you looked?

[484] Or do you kind of know the landscape?

[485] So I don't think there's much as far as the admin side.

[486] But I do have a part -time currently with a company called Primerica.

[487] And I'm currently getting licensed.

[488] I just recently got licensed for life insurance, and I'm currently trying to get license for investments.

[489] So I've been trying to build that.

[490] And I am also wondering, so I'm about to receive my tax return, that time of year.

[491] I'm going to receive a nice chunk.

[492] I have a 12 -year -old, three -year -old, two -year -old, and a one -year -old.

[493] Oh, we didn't get that.

[494] Okay, good.

[495] So you have four kids.

[496] Yeah.

[497] Yeah.

[498] So I'm, you know, I'm going to receive a little over $10 ,000 for my tax return and I'm wondering what my best steps are to save it yeah save it are you married Madison um no I'm no okay I have a partner um I do have a I have a boyfriend okay I just didn't know if there was like a dual income situation um here's the yeah I'm the only I'm the breadwinner in my situation okay don't stick or what I don't want you to do is stick around simply to get the severance like thinking like I'm going to do this thing up to the wire to get especially an unknown amount that you're like listen I don't even know how much it is um I in this equation, I care more about stability and taking care of the kids.

[499] So really lining up something, or at least, listen, start getting options.

[500] It's not to say that you have to take the first job you apply for, but start seeing what's out there.

[501] If I'm you, I'm using this as an opportunity to take a step up, find another position that's, you know, within my field of knowledge and what I love to do to possibly get a raise and get a higher salary and really just look at this.

[502] I mean, I know it sucks and it hurts.

[503] You've been there for five years.

[504] But like Rachel said, it's a gift that you've got six months and really think of this as the stair step to the next best thing and the next good thing for you and your family.

[505] And before you get off here, let's connect her with some of the Ken Coleman materials.

[506] Yes, the assessments, his book, Proximity Principle would be great too.

[507] Yeah, so Austin, if we can give those to her, that's a great point.

[508] Yeah, and Madison, I would be encouraged too, you know, I mean, it's not like you're trying to replace $143 ,000 position.

[509] $43 ,000, you can do that.

[510] You're smart.

[511] you've done this and you've been with this company for five years.

[512] So there is, you know, a part of you that you want to leave well.

[513] But I don't know why my heart kind of flipped on this, Jay, but when I'm like, oh, you got four kids.

[514] All right, we're a single mom.

[515] We got to provide.

[516] Now you have to do what's best for Madison.

[517] And I think you can leave well and respectfully, but I would be looking for another job because you got to pay your bills.

[518] And so, and if you find it and you find a job you love and they need a sooner start date, I would just tell the company, you know, I would get plenty of notice?

[519] Yeah.

[520] Do it respectfully, but you have to take care.

[521] You have four kids to take care of.

[522] So I would do this faster.

[523] And again, I hate to say if you're a single person, all that, but you don't have, there's not as much.

[524] That's right.

[525] It's on you.

[526] You could probably have a level of flexibility to a degree.

[527] But when you have dependents in your household, you want to make sure that you're well covered.

[528] So I would be saving that tax return.

[529] I would be saving every penny you can between now and finding a new job.

[530] Well, let's talk about that, Rachel.

[531] Okay.

[532] So, when I was in my day if you left a job it was like listen give give two weeks notice or more if you can is that still like the running I think so is that still the thing two weeks notice to me I feel like that's a respectful right and the company you know like here at Ramsey if someone gives her two weeks they usually don't laugh they don't stay the whole two weeks it's like hey let's wrap some stuff up because once you're done you're done yes but they're in a position of because it sounds like layoffs so the company's not in a good position so if she does have a critical role I would want to hand that responsibility off to do it well before my area is is gone or whatever the situation is um so that'll never bite you in the butt it's all you never want to burn bridges is very appropriate yeah i think yeah i think so too i'm like listen if you can give more if there's a way to do that i'm not mad at that either and i'm like or like or two days or what you know that's terrible i know or to just walk in and be like i quit like are you kidding listen you never know one thing i've learned rachel is you never know who you'll run into on down the line you know you get older because the the world is small like it's big but it's small and I have always been shocked at the people who have like come back around in my life or vice versa and it's kind of funny because sometimes people want things and I'm like I know how you were I worked with you before you know yeah but Madison too and anyone out there that has a big change like that I think jade you said something that I was like yes see this as an opportunity of growth.

[533] In Ken's book, The Proximity Principles, really going to help you find that next better thing, right?

[534] This is a closed door to open something great.

[535] And we want to believe that for you, Madison.

[536] Absolutely.

[537] Well, thanks for hanging out with us.

[538] Keep hanging out with us.

[539] We're going to take more of your calls.

[540] Hear from more of you guys coming up next.

[541] I'm from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[542] It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[543] I'm your host for this hour.

[544] joined by your other host, Rachel Cruz, and we are taking your calls for the next couple of hours on your life, your money, whatever it is that's going on in your financial situation.

[545] We'd like to help you with that.

[546] So give us a call.

[547] The number is 3 ,8 -8 -25 -2 -2 -25, and we'd be happy to give our two cents.

[548] All right, let's go straight to the phone lines.

[549] We've got Trevor and Tacoma, Washington.

[550] What's going on, Trevor?

[551] Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[552] You bet.

[553] Yes, yes.

[554] I had a question.

[555] Me and my wife have been paying off debt for the past seven years slowly, but we have two items left, which is our house and my student debt.

[556] Okay.

[557] Last year, I started investing through Fidelity, and within six months, I've put in about $10 ,000, pretty much from side hustles.

[558] Okay.

[559] And my student debt is around that.

[560] same amount, $10 ,000.

[561] It's the last did I have.

[562] I feel like I know the answer, but I'm wondering if I should pull that and pay off the student debt.

[563] I haven't made really any money in the stock market only being in there for six months.

[564] Is it just a brokerage account or is it a retirement account?

[565] I have two.

[566] I maxed out last year and then I've started this year.

[567] So in the just normal brokerage.

[568] It's about 1 ,800.

[569] I would not touch the Roth.

[570] It's retirement.

[571] And I do not want you to start the habit of if I need money, I pull it out of my retirement.

[572] Now, if you had single stocks laying around, listen, what's in the brokerage is technically up for grabs.

[573] It's not a whole lot of money, but it's some money.

[574] What I really want to hammer home, though, is the idea of just stay the course.

[575] Like it sounds like you understood, it sounds like you understood that the plan is for you to pause retirement until you finish paying off debt.

[576] But it sounds like, and I relate to this because when you said seven years, everything in my body went, I know about that because it took my husband and I seven and a half years.

[577] And it sounds like you kind of got a little bit weary and maybe felt like you were getting behind.

[578] And so maybe you started investing.

[579] And I just want to encourage you from this point on, listen, I would stop investing and finish paying off this debt.

[580] Like I said, don't touch your retirement, what you've put in there already.

[581] If you want to pull what's in the brokerage, you can.

[582] Like, there's no penalty on that other than maybe a little bit of tax on it.

[583] But how much do you guys make it, Trevor?

[584] We're a single home income.

[585] I stay at home and homeschool two kids.

[586] And she makes about 70 ,000.

[587] So you guys have been paying off debt for seven years what was the debt you guys paid off and how much was it it was actually my side we got married a few years ago and it was all my side debt and it was oh jeez the whole story of me being in the military overseas my other significant other not paying off debt and it just stacked up racked up and it was horrible gotcha gotcha okay i were talking about credit card to repossessed cars yeah so you guys have been through it Trevor I mean, to Jade's point, I'm like seven years.

[588] But honestly, so I get the, you know, there's a weariness there.

[589] We're just like, oh my gosh.

[590] But what you've done, though, so far, which is one of the biggest obstacles for people is to change what you believe about money, right?

[591] There was one set of beliefs that you had overseas in the military that got you, you know, those choices created an outcome that you said, I don't like this outcome.

[592] So you have been working your way right out of this.

[593] So I think, that one of the biggest, again, hurdles, you've overcome that is, hey, I'm going to look at money differently.

[594] But then you get into the details into kind of the nitpicky stuff.

[595] Like we are here at Ramsey where we're like pause retirement.

[596] Like there's certain things you do for a reason.

[597] This isn't just for the heck of it.

[598] It's, it's because of what we've seen over time.

[599] And this last bit, Trevor, I mean, this is like, home stretch.

[600] I know.

[601] I hate to even like relate it to this, but I just watched a video.

[602] It was on Instagram real.

[603] And there was a, I mean, the cars are paid off now.

[604] Is there a way I can do both?

[605] Maybe make a higher payment on my student debt?

[606] No. I think you just pause it.

[607] You're going to be okay for a year.

[608] Yeah.

[609] For a year and you guys make $70 ,000.

[610] And I would even, Trevor, I'm like, if there's anything like at night that you can go do, if you can make a side gig of, you know, with $1 ,000 a month, like that's going to add to this.

[611] I mean, anything just.

[612] Well, this is where my monies came from with side gigs, like putting into this.

[613] Okay.

[614] What about the $70?

[615] Do you have anything that you guys from just a lifestyle standpoint that you can cut?

[616] Oh, we've been cut in the past two months' subscription.

[617] Okay, good, good.

[618] So you're kind of back in it.

[619] It's that fuel, but it's almost like you're limping a little bit to that finish line, and I want you to sprint.

[620] Like, I just want you to get there.

[621] And you're going to be okay if it pauses for a year.

[622] How old are you guys?

[623] 33.

[624] Oh, yeah.

[625] You guys are fine.

[626] Jade, give us the math.

[627] I love walking you through this.

[628] Okay, you said you're investing a little bit now.

[629] What percentage are you investing?

[630] How much a month?

[631] Again, it's not from our actual account.

[632] from me doing side hustles, it's around a thousand a month.

[633] Okay, you're investing a thousand a month, which means obviously when you have this debt clear, you'll have that and more to invest, right?

[634] So let's just pretend that you said right now there's 75 in your Roth.

[635] I'll just put it at $5 ,000 just to be, I'm going to make this like so foolproof.

[636] And let's say that every month you do an additional $1 ,000 every single month.

[637] This is after you're out of debt.

[638] This is after to do like a super conservative rate of return i'm going to say eight percent just for all the hater aides out there to just calm down and let's say you retire at 33 right let's see how much money that would be for you oh shoot no not retire at 33 he has 33 oh he has he's i'm saying for 30 years for 30 years in 30 years okay i'm sorry yeah yeah wait rachel keep the conversation going because my computer's being yeah yeah yeah so he's 33 and let's say in 30 years you decide that yeah I'm going to retire at 63, 64.

[639] The beautiful thing is that you'll see the decisions you've already made with the Roth, which again would not completely agree with because you still have debts.

[640] But the proof is that even if you waited one more year, didn't contribute anything to investments or retirement, paid off his debt, went back to investing in retirement and put money away in 30, 33 years.

[641] Dude, $1 .5 million in 30 years.

[642] and just pause this year yeah you're still going to my point is you're still going to be just fine sorry for the delay my computer was not doing what i wanted it to do but that's starting at seven thousand dollars which you said you have 75 in your roth right now that's a 30 year term you're you're in your 30s now you're going to invest you're going to you know retire in your 60s it's a very conservative rate of return that i put in here you're going to do better than that rate of return i'm just letting you know and this is a thousand bucks a month like come on now and then 15 % of your income to you with that 70 ,000 I would push you guys to say yeah instead of that going you know to debt that's going to be now going to investing and this is assuming nothing changes like you're going to earn more money you're going to have more opportunities like I just want you to see worst case scenario is 1 .5 million dollars yeah come on rachel cruise oh my goodness I'm so excited I feel like people need to do this more people need to run out the numbers and stop letting it circle above their head and cause them.

[643] And the fear that's out there.

[644] Yeah.

[645] It's like you're over here getting a stomach ulcer because you're like, I'm getting too old.

[646] And I used to feel that way.

[647] My husband and I didn't start investing until our mid -30s.

[648] And now I see, like, we're going to be just fine.

[649] And you're going to be just fine to work the plan as planned.

[650] It works every time.

[651] This is the Ramsey Show.

[652] Are you working the baby steps?

[653] One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan.

[654] If you have.

[655] one and replace it with a term life policy.

[656] Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment.

[657] Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings.

[658] For over 25 years, I've trusted and used Xander Insurance to find the best rates on term life insurance from the top rated companies.

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[662] Go to zander .com or call 800 -356 -4282.

[663] Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70 % of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done.

[664] 800 -356 -4282 or zander .com.

[665] You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

[666] And by the way, thank you for listening to The Ramsey Show.

[667] we're just so grateful that each and every day you guys choose to log in or go on to YouTube or go to your podcaster and pick our show to listen to.

[668] Like, that's great.

[669] We're here because of you all.

[670] And we just want to encourage you to keep doing that, keep liking, keep subscribing, and really keep sharing it with people that you think will enjoy the content that we give to you guys every single day.

[671] It doesn't cost you anything and it really is beneficial for us and for the people around you because they get this wonderful resource, but it also helps us.

[672] because it just helps the algorithm favor us a little bit more above some of the other things that are out there.

[673] So if you like this, tell other folks about it.

[674] You know, they might have their crime podcasts that they like, but like, tell them about the Ramsey show.

[675] It's a little of me. Listen.

[676] These crime podcasts, I don't, Rachel, I don't get it.

[677] But I'll send you one.

[678] I don't know if I can watch it.

[679] I feel like.

[680] No, it's a listening.

[681] You listen.

[682] Listen.

[683] Okay.

[684] Yeah, you don't want you.

[685] Yeah.

[686] There's nothing scary.

[687] You see.

[688] You just listen to ready i got i got you something oh rachel cruise loves her a crime podcast jade warsha your other host is fearful of them but you know listen as long as we're part of your your daily routine and you listen to a little bit of the ramsie show then go listen to a little bit of your other podcast so so funny well anyway my point was to tell you that we appreciate you and keep doing what you do we're going to go to the phone lines where there's tony and rochester new york what's going on Tony?

[689] Hi.

[690] Hey.

[691] So I'm calling because I am quite a bit in debt.

[692] It's gotten to a point where after I pay my bills and subscriptions and things that I got going on, it's the amount of credit card that I got is pretty much takes over the rest of the paycheck.

[693] And we're trying to manage it.

[694] I'm looking at options.

[695] I mean, you know, sold the car, considering maybe selling a house.

[696] A house?

[697] Do you have more than one?

[698] No, the house.

[699] The house.

[700] Okay.

[701] Yep.

[702] Selling the house.

[703] And maybe using that to bring them down, I owe, I make about a hundred thousand a year.

[704] Is that including your wife?

[705] I know about, what's that?

[706] Is the 100 ,000 including your wife?

[707] No, it's just me. Just you?

[708] Does she work outside the house?

[709] Well, that's our household.

[710] She's at home.

[711] Okay.

[712] I'm the one that's working outside.

[713] How much?

[714] credit card debt, do you guys have?

[715] We got about $1 .26 ,000 in credit card debt.

[716] And what's the Tony?

[717] So, yeah, no, it's okay.

[718] I can hear it in your voice, Tony.

[719] I mean, it's, that's hard.

[720] That's really hard.

[721] What caused, what was the reason for that?

[722] Well, I was out of work for a year.

[723] I figured out of different things.

[724] I attempted some things on my own as well.

[725] I wasn't able to make enough to get.

[726] get us out of, you know, to be able to sustain us for a long time, start getting that and starting getting credit cards to be able to manage, you know, until I finally got a job.

[727] And then it's grown because once, I guess there's a point of, you have enough debt, the payment, get it to get you to a point where you can't make, it's, it's, it's, what's left is not enough.

[728] So you've got to continue getting more and debt more and more and more.

[729] We haven't been able to manage reducing the expenditures enough to...

[730] So how long have you been in this job that you're in now?

[731] How long has it been?

[732] About a year.

[733] Okay.

[734] So when did you decide?

[735] When was the point for you that you were like, I got to do something different?

[736] This isn't working.

[737] Well, soon as I'm looking at the numbers.

[738] I mean, two years ago, well, for a while we've been wanting to do something.

[739] But it's become quite urgent now.

[740] So we're trying to figure out.

[741] How much are you paying every month?

[742] How much are you paying every month towards these credit cards?

[743] Probably $3 ,500, a little more.

[744] $1 ,500?

[745] $3 ,500.

[746] Oh, $3 ,500.

[747] Okay.

[748] And is that...

[749] That's the minimum payments.

[750] Wow.

[751] And you mentioned a car.

[752] Tell me about the car situation.

[753] So we had two cars.

[754] One of them, I ended up going to spend quite a bit in repairs and things like that.

[755] And I said, well, you know what?

[756] I got it for really nice, but I didn't want to continue.

[757] And so I have another car that's a doer, and it's in good shape.

[758] I don't, I mean, I own loans on them.

[759] So can I, sorry, just to clarify.

[760] I only have the one car right now at this point.

[761] So there's one car, the car that you said you didn't want to, you know, continue with.

[762] What did you do with it?

[763] Do you still own it?

[764] Does it just need the repairs?

[765] I sold it.

[766] Okay.

[767] So now you're a one car family?

[768] family?

[769] There's one car family for now, yeah.

[770] Okay.

[771] And the car that you have, what do you owe on it and what's it worth?

[772] It's, it's, uh, I owe about 30 ,000 on it.

[773] It's probably worth the same amount, maybe a little more.

[774] It's fairly newer, so it's kind of, okay.

[775] The loan's a little older and what the car is worth.

[776] So if I were to sell it, I don't know that I'll get my money back.

[777] Yeah, you'd be underwater in it.

[778] And there's no, you have no savings, I'm assuming, nothing saved anywhere.

[779] not well just a little bit and I and I want to be very little okay that's an off limits what I want to ask about um sorry I'm gonna pry like I'm putting my crowbar in and I'm prying out um your wife's to stay at home mom yeah how many kids do you have which is just hearing hearing us oh hey girl hi um hi hi hi hi hey so you're staying at home you're doing you know you're doing some heavy lifting um how many kids are you watching and and taking care of?

[780] Three.

[781] Three.

[782] And what's their ages?

[783] We're already, our oldest one is 11.

[784] Andrea's eight and the youngest one is six.

[785] Okay.

[786] So when I'm listening to that, I'm hearing school -aged kids, which is great because that daycare, you know, Bill, is not a thing.

[787] So my question is, and, you know, I'm going around this delicately, but I think there's room that you can work as well, because right now, the most money that you can bring in is what's going to break this cycle.

[788] Yes, yes, yes.

[789] I'm just trying to make smart choices, like I was telling him, it's just difficult to sit down.

[790] Sorry.

[791] And like a search for a job that it's prudent in terms of knowing the hours, minimum per hour.

[792] And just with one car right now, we are managing.

[793] So he takes the car for the most part right now, or if not the bus, it is a bit difficult.

[794] But yeah, that is my main goal.

[795] Well, I always say get a job until you get the job.

[796] Because right now, literally anything you do is going to help you guys out.

[797] Yeah, if you drop the kids off and go work at a bakery, you know, for whatever it is.

[798] go, yeah, doing something because and what's your name?

[799] Can I ask?

[800] We have Tony and...

[801] And Inez.

[802] Inez?

[803] Okay.

[804] Yeah.

[805] It's not that I haven't tried.

[806] I've actually tried to...

[807] I believe, sure, sure.

[808] To come up, like, with on the side job, like, staging.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Because here's the deal, you guys.

[811] I know Tony had mentioned, or at least it's here on our screen.

[812] One of your biggest questions was debt consolidation.

[813] And here's what I...

[814] So here's the deal of you guys.

[815] What's going to fix this issue is you guys.

[816] It's not rearranging this credit card debt and trying to find a lower interest rate.

[817] That's not your problem.

[818] The problem is that you guys lived a cycle with your money that got you in this problem and in this mess.

[819] But the beautiful thing is, yes, you were the ones that got yourselves in this mess, but you're the ones that's going to get yourselves out of it, okay?

[820] And so listen to each other because this is the stress point, because you're starting to make that turn of saying, we're going to do something differently.

[821] She's looking for a job.

[822] You've sold a car.

[823] I mean, you guys are feeling this tension.

[824] You're starting to make these choices.

[825] You're getting in the right direction.

[826] So stay on the same team because Tony's not feeling great about himself.

[827] And when I heard you, when you, I heard your voice immediately, Tony, I thought he's caring so much.

[828] There's a lot of shame.

[829] Yes.

[830] There's a lot of guilt that you feel, Tony, like this was my responsibility.

[831] I tried taking care of my family and this is what I got us in.

[832] She is supportive.

[833] She sounds wonderful.

[834] I know.

[835] And she's wanting to help.

[836] But you guys together, you have to work.

[837] as a team and stay on the line because Austin's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University and every dollar premium, which is our budgeting app.

[838] And you guys sit down together, go through these lessons, learn the basics because debt consolidation, that's not going to be your answer.

[839] Yeah, not the option.

[840] You are your answer.

[841] You guys can do this.

[842] We take these calls every day and hear people that do their debt -free screams.

[843] I mean, Jade is a living testimony of this of you guys can do this.

[844] It's going to take a long time.

[845] It's a lot of sacrifice, but it is possible.

[846] So I'm so glad you guys called today.

[847] And we wish you nothing but the best.

[848] You guys can do this.

[849] Hey, you're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[850] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[851] This is Rachel Cruz to my right.

[852] And we're taking calls about your life and your money.

[853] Just came off of a call.

[854] And, you know, honestly, we get calls all the time of people.

[855] You know, they're in a hard financial situation.

[856] And, you know, we're asking questions and mining around to kind of figure out what's the core of the problem?

[857] Where the problem come from?

[858] How can we go about a life that we're not repeating those mistakes again and you kind of do have to dig in and each individual kind of has to go back and do their own digging so that they're figuring out what happened here like it's good to want to solve a problem but you also have to go back and go okay but what happened like what caused me to act in that way what did I do that causes to kind of spin out and we try to help you guys with that a little bit and some of that is personal work but one of the themes that I notice Rachel is and I get this like I this is not me pointing like a finger.

[859] This is just, I think, a human nature thing that we have to guard against, which is, you know, everybody has work in the words of Ken Coleman that they were created to do.

[860] And everybody wants to find the work that they're created to do and the thing that gives them life and the thing that gives them energy.

[861] And I'm all for that.

[862] You know, you want to be excited to go to work and feel like it's time well spent.

[863] But I do find that a lot of times we enter into seasons of life that we are doing work that we don't love.

[864] And it's not the job.

[865] And it's not the job.

[866] and it's not right the one that we were hoping for and I you'll hear me say it time and time again do a job until you get the job and so in the spirit of what I think is just a consistent thread that we see throughout and even that I face throughout times in my life is five reasons to get any job just to get any job all right so number one some money is better than no money that's right right some money coming in is better than no money that's right some money coming in is better money.

[867] When COVID hit, we were in the cruise industry and ain't nobody going on cruises and the live entertainment industry and wasn't nobody going to a live event.

[868] So I had to get a job and my husband had to get a job.

[869] I had to get a job that I did not like that to be honest, I was fully, fully, fully overqualified for.

[870] But we didn't want to just burn savings.

[871] So it's like bringing some money.

[872] Like we're debt free.

[873] We have hardly any expenses.

[874] Any money that we bring in is going to be great.

[875] So we did that and it didn't feel good.

[876] And let me just say, I don't necessarily believe that work is beneath people, but in some days it felt like it was beneath me. Like, let's just be honest about that.

[877] Somebody needs to say it.

[878] You know, some of you feel like, listen, I don't, I shouldn't be working at McDonald's.

[879] Okay, I get that you feel that way, but you don't have any money.

[880] So go work at McDonald's.

[881] All right.

[882] And listen, just be happy that McDonald's is open because back in the day, in COVID, it wasn't even open.

[883] So anyway, money is better than no money.

[884] Rachel, the next one I have here is your spouse needs to see who you are.

[885] And if you're a husband or a wife and you're facing a very hard time in your marriage, go get a job.

[886] Because when they see you at home and you're not working and they feel like they're taking on the burden of that, you can help take some of that off.

[887] So go get a job.

[888] And then Matt might encourage your spouse to go get a job.

[889] Like, that is good.

[890] Your spouse will feel like, I remember when I was a kid, like, my dad, he just was always working.

[891] And I was like, one thing about my dad is like, this man is going to work.

[892] Like, and it just, it builds a sense of security in your kids and in your family.

[893] Yeah.

[894] Go get a job.

[895] And no one's going to be going, well, but my dad only works here.

[896] No one is saying that.

[897] They're going, listen, my dad goes out and works hard every day.

[898] That's right.

[899] Go get a job.

[900] All right.

[901] Number three.

[902] you'll learn what you like and what you don't like.

[903] Yes, by testing out all different things.

[904] Listen, I don't like food service.

[905] I don't like call center.

[906] I don't really like working with animals, even though I like animals.

[907] Yeah, I like cooking.

[908] I don't like making wedding cakes.

[909] I've done it before.

[910] It's a lot of work.

[911] Like, I can tell you, Rachel Cruz, the things that Jade does not like doing.

[912] Okay?

[913] And now I know the situations that I do enjoy working in.

[914] So you'll learn what you like.

[915] You'll learn what you don't like.

[916] Number four.

[917] you'll be productive.

[918] Yes.

[919] And there's just something to be said for, all right, I'm getting up and leaving and doing something.

[920] Yeah.

[921] Or not leaving, but staying at home and being on your computer.

[922] Doing something.

[923] You're getting out of your bed.

[924] Even if you're putting on sweatpants and going up and putting your little headpiece on and doing your call center job.

[925] I'm almost talking about it like I know it.

[926] Okay.

[927] And then finally, it will build confidence in you because when you go, the longer you go without a job, the more you wonder if you'll ever be able to get.

[928] a job.

[929] So to just go from one job to another says, listen, I've got some confidence.

[930] Like, I can say when I go to my next interview, I can say that I'm currently working or I can say, here's the experience that I've had.

[931] Yeah.

[932] Or at least feel it on the inside.

[933] That's right.

[934] So there you have it.

[935] Five reasons to take any job before you get the job.

[936] And that was free, ladies and gentlemen.

[937] Free game.

[938] Right from Jade Warshaw.

[939] That's amazing, Jade.

[940] I mean, seriously, because I do think that there is this feeling and especially if you've been in a certain industry or you kind of have your line of side of like this is what I do and you get laid off or you or you know you're in a bad situation you quit whatever the whatever the reason is yeah and you still have that kind of narrow focus of this and to your point when you when bills have to be paid open those horizons and go just do something yes yeah and you know one door leads to another and you never know you might be taking someone's burger order and you meet some you know the person taking the order they they have a situation that they tell you about in at least the next thing you just you never ever know what's behind a door so don't don't count it out and think that you're above it or think that it's just keep going anyway who i digress i got to take a deep breath i love it we got to go to brenda in washington dc sorry brenda that you have to come after that but what's going on in your world.

[941] Hi.

[942] So me and my husband are looking to buy a house.

[943] We want to know if we're even there yet and if we are what steps financially we should take to get there as far as pausing our investments, continuing to invest, or yeah, what we should do.

[944] Okay.

[945] Well, what we look at, Brenda, is a series of steps that we want completed before you go and purchase your first home.

[946] So are you, how much debt do you guys have?

[947] We have about, I think, 12 ,000 total for our cars and that's it.

[948] And that's it?

[949] Okay, perfect.

[950] And do you guys have any money saved?

[951] We have about 55 ,000 in savings.

[952] Okay, that's great.

[953] How much do you guys make a year?

[954] Combined, we make around 220 before taxes.

[955] I don't know what a disaster, to be honest.

[956] Yeah, okay, perfect.

[957] That's a great.

[958] come.

[959] Okay, so if I were you, Brenda, I would pay off your cars today with the money that you guys have saved in that $55 ,000 account.

[960] And then the remaining, I would look to see how much your expenses are a month.

[961] Because what we say is after you pay off all your consumer debt, look to get a three to six months of expenses saved in a fully funded emergency fund.

[962] And you put that, you know, that money in a high -yield savings or a money market.

[963] And for you guys, you know, you may want to put some more towards savings.

[964] What's the car, once you pay off the cars, or maybe that's enough for you guys.

[965] But I want you guys to look at your own budget and figure out, okay, if we need probably three months.

[966] Do you guys have kids?

[967] No, we do have a kid on the way.

[968] That's part of our, oh, okay.

[969] We want to buy a house too.

[970] That's so great.

[971] Well, congratulations.

[972] When are you due?

[973] Yeah, thank you.

[974] Um, September.

[975] In September.

[976] Okay.

[977] That's awesome.

[978] Um, so yeah, so I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't push the timeline of the home with or without the baby.

[979] Okay, so meaning like I wouldn't feel like, oh my gosh, I have to get in before the baby or what I wouldn't let the baby's timeline dictate your house timeline.

[980] I want your money to dictate the house timeline.

[981] So again, I want that fully funded emergency fund.

[982] And honestly, Brenda, with a baby on the way, you know, starting to look for a home, I would, I would feel comfortable around that five to six month mark, um, for an emergency fund.

[983] And, just making sure you guys have plenty of cash set aside and then you want to start saving up for your down payments and I would say to put at least 5 % down and make sure your payment is no more than 25 % of your take home pay so when you run those numbers you guys can kind of look now you're in you're in the DC area so you're in an expensive part of the country real estate wise so your expectations and our formula you know we get knocked on it sometimes it is more on the conservative side, but I don't want this house to be the thing that stresses you guys out.

[984] So it may take maybe another year or two, or depending on what kind of house you guys are looking at, to really kind of slow down and say, yep, let's get in a good position, have a good down payment and making sure that it's a reasonable payment within our income to make sure to pull the triggers.

[985] So I hope that's helpful, Brenda.

[986] And if you go to Ramsey Solutions .com, we have tons of articles and free content on home purchasing.

[987] So make sure to check that out.

[988] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[989] Hey, by the way, a couple of days ago, we did a Q &A after the Ramsey show all on budgeting.

[990] And it was, it was really cool.

[991] It was live.

[992] It was George and I here in the studio.

[993] It's still on the YouTube page.

[994] If you want to go and check that out, if you have any questions about our budgeting app, Every Dollar, which is the best budgeting app in the world.

[995] We did a live Q &A where we had every dollar pulled up on the screen.

[996] George and I were just kind of little characters in the corner.

[997] so you can really see how the budgeting app works.

[998] And we answered Rachel, gosh, probably eight or ten questions in depth.

[999] And I mean, it's questions that most of you have all the time.

[1000] How do I do Sinking Funds?

[1001] What do I do if I get paid four times a week?

[1002] Do I do my budget by week or how do I do it?

[1003] We answered all those questions.

[1004] We talked about, gosh, paying off debt.

[1005] So many just everyday questions.

[1006] So if that's something you're interested in, find it on our YouTube page.

[1007] I'm sure they'll pull it up at some point or maybe even after this segment.

[1008] So stay tuned for that.

[1009] It's so valuable.

[1010] There it is.

[1011] It was really, really cool.

[1012] I think like over, gosh, the numbers on it were crazy.

[1013] I'm not going to sit here and try to quote it.

[1014] But my point is, go watch it because it was super duper valuable.

[1015] And I'm sure that we'll do that again.

[1016] I don't know when, but it was super valuable.

[1017] So go in there, every dollar again.

[1018] Such a great budgeting tool.

[1019] But like, let's be honest, there's sometimes questions that you have and things that you want to know about it.

[1020] And so we're here to answer those questions as well as questions about your life and your money, which we're going to do.

[1021] The numbers, AAA, 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[1022] We're here to help, and let's go to Jerry in Phoenix, Arizona.

[1023] What's going on, Jerry?

[1024] How you doing?

[1025] Thanks for taking my call.

[1026] You're welcome.

[1027] How can we help?

[1028] My question is, I'm 66.

[1029] My wife is 71.

[1030] She's been diagnosed and said dementia for three years.

[1031] Sorry, sorry.

[1032] Sorry.

[1033] Having to go into a long -term care facility.

[1034] I've done the baby steps.

[1035] I have like $5 ,000 in emergency fund and $20 ,000 in savings and investing.

[1036] My house is paid for, but my question is, should I sell my house to pay for her long -term care, which I can't afford on my income?

[1037] How much does the long -term care, how much is it costing you?

[1038] Like what's the cost per month per year?

[1039] Costs per month for long -term care is about $7 ,000 a month, and I take home only $5 ,000 with my retirements.

[1040] Okay.

[1041] And are you retired, Jerry, then?

[1042] Yes, I'm retired military, disability, and social security.

[1043] Okay, okay.

[1044] So tell us more about your home situation.

[1045] Okay, I own my home.

[1046] It's worth about $700 ,000.

[1047] I could sell the house here and move into a smaller house for like $400 ,000 and would lead me about $250 ,000.

[1048] and I could use that to pay monthly on long -term care, memory care, because that would only last for maybe two years or three years.

[1049] Assuming it's not invested.

[1050] What's at?

[1051] The house?

[1052] No. The $250 ,000.

[1053] Are you just thinking of it as a lump sum as it is?

[1054] Yeah, it would have to, yeah, it would just be my equity out of the house after I sold it.

[1055] And tell me again, sorry, I was kind of writing down some things.

[1056] Tell me again what you have in retirement as it stands.

[1057] Okay, military retirement, military disability, social security, and my wife's Social Security.

[1058] And it adds up to about $4 ,800 a month.

[1059] But what are the nest eggs?

[1060] Is there a nest egg anywhere in there?

[1061] I've got $20 ,000 in the savings account and $5 ,000 in another savings account from my emergency fund.

[1062] Okay.

[1063] Let me think here.

[1064] I've been trying to get everything right and house paid off.

[1065] getting there but then this happens yes I'm so sorry and Jerry I mean I'm assuming because you called and asked the specific question I mean so she she will need to be in a yeah she didn't go to a point where I'm not going to be able to take care of her you know my age I'm doing full -time caretaking for her right now but I can I'm just trying to look into the future and I know it's not going to last forever yeah I know oh I'm so sorry have you looked at other options at other, whether it's, you know, homes or facilities or even in home care at all?

[1066] Yeah, I have looked at it.

[1067] It's a little bit cheaper, but not very much still going to be about $5 ,000.

[1068] Okay.

[1069] More than I take home.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] In this case, though, a $2 ,000 difference is a big difference from $5 ,000 to $7 ,000.

[1072] So it is something to consider.

[1073] okay yeah I thought about that because the house that I have now well I'd have to sell this house that's all that's the only thing I get to be able to have money to do anything yeah I mean I do think so yeah it's it is it's a large asset um it's paid off which is just incredible and I think it is you know that I you know you need money for her right and so you do have um a stream of income in a sense with this I mean not income but you have the ability to get some cash if you do sell um this home um what would it look like you you ran one scenario where you sell this seven hundred thousand dollar home you take 250 you invest it well and you're pulling off of it for a number of years to only fund it for so long but that's with you buying a three or four hundred thousand dollar house is there any situation it's just going to be you in the home um possibly depending on which route you go.

[1074] Is there a route where you buy something far less expensive, like a condo, as opposed to a full -sized house, even though it would be downsizing, but something even smaller where you've got a larger nest egg that you can invest and draw off for a longer period of time?

[1075] That's always an option.

[1076] I know in the Phoenix area, even condos are getting up there price -wise.

[1077] Yeah, for sure.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] I mean, Jerry, I'm so, I'm so sorry.

[1081] I mean, I probably would.

[1082] Yeah, I would look to to probably sell.

[1083] And I think you do have to map out.

[1084] Because what I don't want to happen is you sell this paid off asset.

[1085] And there's nothing left for you.

[1086] There's nothing left for you or you end up running out and then you have to go to another option.

[1087] Right.

[1088] And so, yeah, I would run the numbers pretty tightly.

[1089] I probably went in Russian to buying something new right now for.

[1090] you as you go and I would look at other options for um care care as well um I mean obviously we want the best for our loved ones for sure but that industry can vary so so much and you guys obviously you don't have she doesn't have long -term care insurance or I mean anything right okay I never plan for I wish I would have no I know I know well and it she's so young you know it's just, I'm so sorry.

[1091] You'd invest the money if you sold the house and then try to take the money out of the investments or how would that work?

[1092] Yeah, I probably would try to take away as big a chunk as possible.

[1093] That's why I was saying, is there a way that you can do a situation where you're taking the majority of the sale of this and investing it because then what you're drawing off of it is much less and you would only draw off what you needed to fund this since you're living, since you already have some income, of course.

[1094] coming in from all of your different retirement options.

[1095] You wouldn't have to pull much.

[1096] I mean, we're talking about, you said you bring in $5 ,000.

[1097] This is an additional seven to $5 ,000.

[1098] So it'd be coming up with a retirement option where it allows you to pull off $5 ,000 and you're dwindling that nest egg far slower than if it was a $250 ,000 nest.

[1099] Like going in with $6 ,000 or $700 ,000 is a lot different than going in with $250 ,000.

[1100] So to Rachel's point, like, I hate the idea of you being a homeowner and then you not being a homeowner anymore, but I would love if you worked with a professional to see what your options are, because A, I want you to be able to take care of her, but B, you're not getting any younger either.

[1101] And so there's got to be a situation where you're covered as well.

[1102] And that'll just, at the very least, having your options will really just help give you peace about, okay, this is, this is what I know I can do.

[1103] Here are my options.

[1104] It's not floating around in my head and being able to choose between a couple of things on paper as opposed to just thinking, all right, this is my only choice I can only do X. That's right.

[1105] That's right.

[1106] Right.

[1107] So that makes sense.

[1108] Talk to a fellow in a investor.

[1109] Yeah, we have smartvester pros.

[1110] You can hop on Ramsey Solutions .com and check out our smart vester pros.

[1111] And they're going to help you really see, okay, here's what we can do.

[1112] And they're going to shoot you straight and tell you what your options are.

[1113] And again, that's going to help give you a very clear picture of what your choices are moving forward.

[1114] And how to stretch this money out as long as possible, Jerry, right?

[1115] I mean, I think that's going to be the goal to make her comfortable, to make you feel good about the situation.

[1116] But how can you do that while balancing you have a chunk of money?

[1117] And how can we get that to go as far as possible?

[1118] Yeah.

[1119] Tough stuff.

[1120] But, you know, there are options.

[1121] And the more knowledge is power.

[1122] That's what I was trying to get to.

[1123] At the end of the day, knowledge is power.

[1124] So go out there and see how those smart vesters can help you.

[1125] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1126] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1127] I'm your host, Jade Borshaw, joined by your other host for the day.

[1128] Rachel Cruz taking your calls all afternoon long, your life, your money, we want to hear about it.

[1129] The number's triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -25, and we will get into it.

[1130] So, you know, come ready, because we're going to give you.

[1131] you our thoughts and our advice on it.

[1132] All right.

[1133] So let's go to the phone lines where there's Vanessa in Dallas, Texas waiting.

[1134] What's going on, Vanessa?

[1135] Hi, ladies.

[1136] Thank you so much for your time today.

[1137] No problem.

[1138] Absolutely.

[1139] How glad you're here?

[1140] I'm so glad it's the two of you because I really, really want your opinion.

[1141] I just found a date two weeks ago.

[1142] Oh, congratulations.

[1143] Thank you so much.

[1144] We don't have a date yet.

[1145] We both rent separately.

[1146] We're both completely out of debt, no secret credit cards, nothing like that.

[1147] And I was just curious, what should we prioritize first?

[1148] I'm really, I'm one of those soon -to -be brides where I care more about getting into a home rather than a very large expensive wedding.

[1149] And I just, I feel like I'm suffering from paralysis of the analysis and I don't really know where to go from here.

[1150] Okay.

[1151] Good question.

[1152] Oh, my gosh.

[1153] So for you guys, the wedding, is it, is it you guys paying for?

[1154] you and your fiance?

[1155] Yes, just us.

[1156] Okay, and how much do you guys make a year?

[1157] We both make 65, respectively, so altogether 130.

[1158] 130, okay.

[1159] But we haven't combined any finances yet.

[1160] Yes.

[1161] Oh, you're good.

[1162] Phanas is like, I swear we're doing this one.

[1163] I know, I love it.

[1164] Okay, do you guys have money saved?

[1165] What would be the money saved if you were to combine savings?

[1166] Not like you're going to, but if you were, what would that be?

[1167] At this point, we both have a fully funded six -month emergency.

[1168] fund and that is it.

[1169] Like we we paid off all of our debt saved up baby step three all of that and then he popped the question.

[1170] So we're really like we're basically starting from like baby step three B slash wedding fund.

[1171] Yes.

[1172] So you both have a six month emergency fund separately?

[1173] Correct.

[1174] Awesome.

[1175] Okay.

[1176] So how much is in how much is in yours?

[1177] How much is in his?

[1178] Mine is simply make the same amount of money.

[1179] Like it's right in the neighbor.

[1180] of about $20 ,000.

[1181] Each of you has.

[1182] Okay.

[1183] Correct.

[1184] Okay.

[1185] That's great.

[1186] Yep.

[1187] And I would leave that alone.

[1188] Yeah.

[1189] I would keep that as is.

[1190] And, okay, what is his take?

[1191] Is he more on the house side or is he at all have any, I don't know, I feel like dudes don't really care about the wedding as much, usually stereotypically.

[1192] Yeah, I would think so.

[1193] He's kind of torn as well because he was raised Catholic.

[1194] So his family's approach to everything is like try to get married in the church, which is I know is around like $10 ,000 to $15 ,000.

[1195] But if it, I mean, at the end of the day, we're both sort of like, what if we just went down to the courthouse and could be done with it then?

[1196] When you said that, when you said that, like, are you saying that the church is more expensive than like another venue?

[1197] Because I always feel like the church route is less expensive than like a ballroom, right?

[1198] So the church comes with a lot of like prerequisites that you have to.

[1199] go through like marriage counseling which is wonderful and like things like that.

[1200] I think it just sort of as like all encapsulated is about $10 ,000 to $15 ,000.

[1201] Like we would be able to do it probably for that much money.

[1202] Okay, but you guys don't want to do that necessarily.

[1203] Not necessarily.

[1204] Okay.

[1205] And you don't have to.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] I mean, I would lean on what you guys want.

[1208] And it sounds like Vanessa, unless I'm mistaken that you both lean to like, hey, let's, I mean, it's, I mean, I mean, you could do a lope.

[1209] You could go a step up from a lope, get the license, go have a great party.

[1210] Yeah, like, treat it like an engagement party.

[1211] Yeah, and have a great reception at some date, you know, later in the future.

[1212] But it sounds like your priority is because of how, I mean, I can tell how focused you guys are, is really looking towards the future and looking at like, hey, what's going to last us longer?

[1213] And saving more for a down payment on a home is, quote, unquote, technically a better financial investment.

[1214] And I won't necessarily say emotionally and all the things.

[1215] But like, I do think whatever you choose, you have to make it a memory.

[1216] Like you have to do something that makes it like special.

[1217] Like if you say, okay, we're just going to go down to the courthouse.

[1218] Right now in your life, you're really focusing on the financial thing.

[1219] But there might be a point later on where you see something or something sparks.

[1220] You're like, man, I wish I had gotten a dress.

[1221] I wish I had done a couple of things.

[1222] Yes.

[1223] There is part of that that I think that she should include.

[1224] or, you know, that you should include Vanessa, even though, even if you choose to go like the, do the least route, right?

[1225] Like, still have a beautiful dress, still do something that's going to create a memory in your mind where later on you will look back and not feel like you missed out because you still did something.

[1226] And it is interesting because these types of situations, and you could probably put vacation in this realm that I'm talking about or other things, it is so personality driven.

[1227] I had a cousin and they went to Washington, literally went to the top of a mountain.

[1228] had a pastor do it and they were done that's cool because that was like their thing and they're like that's all we want we don't need a bunch of people around we're good uh you know and then you know for me i'm like i love i love a good party and i love dressing i love all the things so i'm like i would tend to lean which i did i enjoyed my wedding and i loved it um you know but all that to say your personality and what you guys want and what you guys value is going to drive this and so maybe Vanessa would be a fun exercise to write down maybe three things for you in the wedding category that you would genuinely love to have and maybe that's you know maybe that's the dress or maybe that's a really good idea yeah and just like what three things are important to you what three things are important to me and like see what you meet in the middle and you guys may yeah be be very similar in it and we I mean we've talked to some people on the show they do it so inexpensively yeah have a great time and then they they write off in the sunset and and, you know, do it.

[1229] And then we know some people, too, that are like, notice this is an important day for us.

[1230] We really want to take the most of it.

[1231] And we're going to save, put more money here, and we'll worry about the house in two to three years.

[1232] You know, so I don't think there's a right or wrong, honestly.

[1233] I think going into debt or making decisions like that, I think will put you guys back.

[1234] But I really think that it's a lean into what you guys both want, not what everyone else around you is saying.

[1235] So true.

[1236] And listen, there's two, like, thinking of, towards the future there's two ways to think of this number one i rachel i think in some ways i'm like you which i like a good party probably not to the extent because i love my wedding like i have great memories of my wedding it's not something i think of all the time and so i do like to you know when people call in i do like to call out like listen it is one day and you're not going to think about it all the time that's right that's right the flip side of that is sam and i are big on like renewing of vows.

[1237] So it's like if you don't do everything you want to do the first go round, listen in 10 years, renew your vows.

[1238] It'll give you something to work towards.

[1239] My husband and I did a vow renewal at 10 years and we're going to do another one at 20 years.

[1240] And each one will be nicer and better.

[1241] Come on.

[1242] Listen.

[1243] So just understand like there's you have room to go up and.

[1244] That's a great point.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] That's a great point.

[1247] I love it.

[1248] I like that conversation.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] Congratulations, Vanessa.

[1251] I feel like you guys will make it the right decision.

[1252] I'm not worried about you guys.

[1253] You're pretty, pretty straight line when it comes to the money.

[1254] 100%.

[1255] Do you remember there was a Netflix show that was like the people had the opportunity to choose between, I think it was $10 ,000 or $30 ,000 on a house or a wedding.

[1256] It was a great concept.

[1257] And that's basically what that call was.

[1258] But do remember, your wedding is one day.

[1259] Your marriage is a lifetime.

[1260] So do the marriage counseling beforehand.

[1261] Do it in a year.

[1262] All the things.

[1263] Like, it is one day.

[1264] So don't get too caught up in it.

[1265] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1266] All right, you're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[1267] I'm Jade Warshall.

[1268] This is Rachel Cruz, host of the Rachel Cruz show on YouTube, if you happen to be on there.

[1269] Also, Smart Money Happy Hour is a great one.

[1270] Listen, Rachel, this kind of came up several months back.

[1271] I saw an article where they were just talking about more and more people drawing from their 401ks and from their actual retirement to cover month -to -month expenses.

[1272] And of course, we've all seen in the news.

[1273] like the extremes where people pull from their 401k to go see Beyonce or to go see Taylor Swift.

[1274] Right, right, right.

[1275] But they're, and don't do that.

[1276] That's terrible.

[1277] But there's a lot of folks out there who are kind of facing that paycheck to paycheck cycle.

[1278] They're feeling the stress and the strain of their money and they don't know where else to go.

[1279] And they're thinking, is it better, you know, I don't want to put this on a credit card or I don't want to take out more debt.

[1280] Here's money.

[1281] That's my money.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] Maybe I should take out from this money and I can, you know, make my situation better.

[1284] Matter of fact, the guy called the show the other day.

[1285] He had just had his taxes done.

[1286] And the fee for the taxes was $300.

[1287] But his return was only $100.

[1288] And he was like, oh, crap.

[1289] Like I thought I was going to be able to take some of the money from my return.

[1290] And he's thinking, like, maybe I'll just go to my four.

[1291] Matter of fact, the tax guy, not one of our trusted pros, but the tax guy that he was working with told him, hey, why don't you go to your 401k and take out a loan.

[1292] So people are just tossing this around as an option.

[1293] Like it's just nothing here and I need people to understand that if you withdraw from your retirement you're going to have to pay a 10 % penalty on that money that you take out and by the way if you happen to draw from your 401k if you lose your job that money becomes due like almost immediately and you've got a year to pay it back before you start facing more fees and penalties so this is more serious than what people really are drawing into it um it says I'll get to that part in a minute but what I want people to, I read an article that said the average withdrawal, Rachel is about $5 ,000.

[1294] Like people aren't looking to get $30 ,000.

[1295] It's not tens of thousands.

[1296] No. On average it's $5 ,000.

[1297] And do you know what I figured out, Rachel?

[1298] That if you took a less than average car payment, that you, that's basically the $5 ,000.

[1299] Like if you went a year without your car payment, you'd have the $5 ,000.

[1300] For sure.

[1301] Or you did a side hustle for $1 ,500 a month.

[1302] Yes.

[1303] I get it.

[1304] Yep.

[1305] So I kind of want to have some empathy for the fact that people feel like they're faced against a wall, right?

[1306] That there's no other thing.

[1307] But what I want you to see is listen, start looking around because there's other options and avenues for you to get out of this.

[1308] Well, and in that case, it's such a, we see this all the time.

[1309] If you're in a crisis or you feel like you have no options, it feels like this is the only choice.

[1310] This is the only money I have.

[1311] So even if it's $3 ,000, $5 ,000, I'm going to do that.

[1312] And it's a short -sighted view versus pausing letting the chaos settle right and actually formulating a plan and when you actually start looking at other options so it is that that quick kind of grab of like oh my gosh i got to just yeah yeah have it it's tough and some people are like listen i'm having a hardship and there are you know there are hardship withdrawals uh hardship means that uh let it allows you to take money out of your 401k to meet an immediate and heavy financial need that's what the irs says immediate and heavy financial and so many of us would look could look at that and go listen I needed those Beyonce tickets whereas others will look at it and go okay yeah I've been without my you know I've been without a job for X amount of months or you know what we're saying is this could include something like a natural disaster right repairs from a natural disaster covering funeral expenses for a loved one um or paying rent to avoid being evicted like those are really really serious situations yeah you're only allowed to take out the exact amount of that you need for those expenses.

[1313] And remember, you'd still have to pay taxes on it.

[1314] So there's really no way around some of the financial strings that are attached to this, even if it was a hardship withdrawal.

[1315] And again, we're seeing that these are on the rise.

[1316] Unfortunately, more and more people are lying about their situation, Rachel, to qualify.

[1317] To get it.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] That's fraud.

[1320] Yeah, yeah.

[1321] That's legal.

[1322] Yeah, we don't want to do that.

[1323] So what we just want you to take away from.

[1324] this is a don't lie about your situation and don't commit fraud but be understand that there's always options um there's always a way that is better than probably what you're scared and anxiety filled sleepless brain is coming up within the moment right that's right because when we're panicked we're like okay what can i do what can i do and your brain just fixates on one thing that usually feels like the easiest answer that feels like the answer with the least amount of friction but a lot of times it's not the best answer.

[1325] Like it might be what we talked about.

[1326] You picking up a side hustle in the midst of an already very busy schedule.

[1327] You selling a car and having to coordinate with your spouse a one car situation when you've had two cars your entire marriage.

[1328] Like no one is sitting here and saying that that wouldn't be difficult or very hard to pull off or require tons of coordination.

[1329] But it's bigger and better than borrowing from your future because what happens is when we pull from our retirement, it does draw a line in the sand of, okay, this is something that I have the option to do.

[1330] And once you start that, it's, it's, it's kind of like you've said, this is, this is available to me. And then the next time a hard situation comes, that's an option that you know you did in the past.

[1331] And so it really is about building the right behavior over time, Rachel, for me. Totally.

[1332] Because it fixes, like you said, the issue in the moments.

[1333] But man, it takes away from so much growth that could be happening.

[1334] So do you make the sacrifice on the short term?

[1335] That's why we tell people not to take money out of your retirement, 401k or Roth or IRAs, to pay off debt because this is something that you can do on your own without that money because, again, you lose so much, so much growth when you do that.

[1336] So if you want to know more about this, we do have a really cool article.

[1337] By the way, we have tons of articles on Ramsey Solutions .com, but we've got one here that's called Why You Shouldn't withdraw from your retirement to pay off debt.

[1338] There's a nice ring to it.

[1339] But it's at Ramsey Solutions .com, and the link is there in the show.

[1340] in the show notes.

[1341] So take a look at that.

[1342] It's just, listen, knowledge is power.

[1343] The more you know with the little rainbow at the end.

[1344] So with that, let's go to the phone lines.

[1345] We've got Caden in Boise, Idaho.

[1346] What's going on, Caden?

[1347] Hey there.

[1348] How's your guys a day going?

[1349] Great.

[1350] How about you?

[1351] Terrific.

[1352] So I got myself into a little bit of a pickle.

[1353] I'm 22 years old.

[1354] I make about 80 ,000.

[1355] I made 80 ,000 last year.

[1356] I'm planning on making a hundred thousand this year.

[1357] Nice.

[1358] And I am roughly $280 ,000 in debt.

[1359] That includes a house, a car, a motorcycle, and other miscellaneous, like credit cards and stuff.

[1360] How much is the house of that debt?

[1361] House is 225.

[1362] Okay.

[1363] And go ahead and just tell me the rest of them as well.

[1364] The car.

[1365] car is 4 ,000 motorcycle is 12 and then credit card is another four and then I have a 4 ,000 home improvement loan for an electrical situation that had happened so and that's four as well listen yeah I think you do have some debt here that I think that you'll be able to clean up relatively quickly I think because you're grouping it in with the house, it feels even more overwhelming.

[1366] And that might be because is your home payment too high for your income?

[1367] What's your home payment?

[1368] Home payment is I have a first and a second mortgage.

[1369] I went through FHA, so the down payment assistance.

[1370] Okay.

[1371] First mortgage payment is 1750.

[1372] Second is 100.

[1373] Okay.

[1374] So you're paying 1850.

[1375] And what's your take home pay?

[1376] Roughly, I work hourly plus commission, so it varies, but anywhere from four to like seven each month.

[1377] Okay.

[1378] So I think on most months you're fine with this mortgage.

[1379] If I were you, I mean, the way we teach is the mortgage is completely separate from the rest of the debt.

[1380] And I think if for right now, while you're in baby step two, which is paying off all of your consumer debt except your mortgage, I think that'll break it down into like more.

[1381] manageable bite -sized pieces.

[1382] Do you have any money saved, Kaden?

[1383] I do not.

[1384] Okay.

[1385] Yeah, so if I were you, I would probably sell the motorcycle.

[1386] I would look to say, okay, then that takes a good chunk off.

[1387] Then we got 12 ,000 left between the other, the 4 ,000 credit card and 4 ,000 on the electrical issue.

[1388] And I would just work to pay that down, Kater.

[1389] I mean, I would work extra.

[1390] I would do what you can.

[1391] I mean, you're 22.

[1392] If you get all this stuff cleaned up, it's amazing what can happen when you don't have all this debt.

[1393] And I would cut up the credit cards and I would really start living a life to say, okay, I'm someone that doesn't.

[1394] Use debt.

[1395] You pay it off.

[1396] You save up an emergency fund.

[1397] And Caden at 25 is going to be pretty dang in a great situation.

[1398] You are listening to the Ramsey Show.

[1399] And thank you for listening to the Ramsey Show.

[1400] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[1401] Join me. Join next to me is Rachel Cruz.

[1402] and we're taking your calls for the rest of the hour.

[1403] So you can give us a call.

[1404] The number is triple 8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[1405] I mentioned it before and I'll mention it again.

[1406] We are doing a really cool live event coming up May 10th and 11th here on our campus here in Nashville, Tennessee.

[1407] It's the Total Money Makeover weekend.

[1408] So it's over the course of a couple of days.

[1409] You come up here on our campus and we are going to walk through really what it's about is it's based on the book, The Total Money Makeover.

[1410] So that's the baby step.

[1411] And so basically everything you hear is talking about on the radio, if you want that deep dive, if you want to be around like -minded people, you want to just get into it, get that deeper level, be motivated.

[1412] This is the event for you.

[1413] All the personalities are going to be there.

[1414] If you've been to a live event before, this is not going to be like the one you've been to.

[1415] This is completely different.

[1416] So if you want to get those early bird tickets, they're $99 and they're only going to be here for a limited time.

[1417] So you can get those at ramsysolutions .com slash events.

[1418] And we'll see you there.

[1419] there I do.

[1420] All right.

[1421] Let's go to Rachel, who's in Spokane, Washington, the city I was born in.

[1422] What's going on, Rachel?

[1423] It's a pretty all right city.

[1424] I'll say that.

[1425] Hey.

[1426] What can we do?

[1427] I'm taking my call.

[1428] I would love some advice.

[1429] It's sort of financial related, kind of not my finances, but I am 32 years old, and I'm an independent parent, which means, like, I chose to become a parent by myself after, you know, I was 25, 26, 107, couldn't find anyone.

[1430] We never aligned with like finances or like financial ideology or having children.

[1431] So, three years ago, I decided to have a child on my own.

[1432] I love my daughter.

[1433] She is the best.

[1434] Oh, my goodness.

[1435] Good for you.

[1436] So I feel like I really need some good decisions.

[1437] And she's a little older now.

[1438] She's four now.

[1439] And, you know, a lot of friends and family are always asking you, like, you should start dating.

[1440] And like, why aren't you going on dates?

[1441] Like, why are you not doing this?

[1442] And a really big reason.

[1443] So I'm 32, I don't have any debt.

[1444] I don't have any credit card debt.

[1445] I paid off on my loans, credit card debt, car, all that when I was 26.

[1446] I was 10, I was 26.

[1447] And a huge reason is kind of a feeling of, you know, there's the obvious, you know, not just like letting anyone around my daughter, not just like going to.

[1448] For sure.

[1449] You know, I don't want to, I, there's that reason.

[1450] But the reason I'm calling is that my son sent me up on a date with one of her, work friends or something um her husband's work friend and we were just chatting he was like how do you do it how do you like single parent it must be so hard and i was like oh well like i don't live with debt i like my job like it's not really that hard like it's it's hard if you are like if i'm like very financially stable and he um he was like oh i have like i'm like $450 ,000 in debt and, like, all these things and started just kind of naming this.

[1451] This is my first date with this person.

[1452] And I was like, oh, I know a lot about you.

[1453] Um, and we say not to do on a first day.

[1454] I know.

[1455] Well, at least now you know.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] And I was like, maybe this is my fault.

[1458] I was just casually just trying to like keep it lighthearted.

[1459] It's like, oh, I don't live with it.

[1460] But like, to me, it's been so long since I've lived with that.

[1461] But I was like, maybe this, maybe people just love talking about this.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] And then I was talking to my friend.

[1465] She's like, oh, like, how to go.

[1466] I was like, you know, I don't really think this is, like, for me. And when I was explaining, like, it's not just about introducing someone to my daughter's life.

[1467] It's also about introducing that whatever, like, I'm not going to date without the intention of marriage.

[1468] And I don't know how to explain.

[1469] And I don't even know if it's wrong to, like, not give somebody a chance, knowing that they're so, we're on totally different pages.

[1470] You get to set your non -negotiables.

[1471] Listen, you get to set your non -negotiables.

[1472] to have that list of, here are the things that I really, at this point in my life, want to align on.

[1473] And you get to say what that is.

[1474] And you also get to reevaluate that with time.

[1475] Like, listen, you could come up with a list of five things.

[1476] And if you find out that after 10 years, no one is meeting up to your expectations, you get to decide, well, maybe I am being a little too.

[1477] Right.

[1478] Right.

[1479] Like, maybe, is there anything that I can change?

[1480] Or is there anything that I'm being a little too judgmental on?

[1481] And having a, listen, you guys talked about this really early in the relationship.

[1482] Had you had you have dated for four months and fallen in love and then him sprung on the $500 ,000 of debt or however much it was, listen, you might have married him anyway like I did.

[1483] But yeah, so I think Rachel, I think you have to, you know, I would go into it.

[1484] And I wouldn't, I wouldn't put this, you know, thing out there that if they do have debts, it's an absolute no. And I'm not saying you're saying, that but what's important is the value system right so if they came to you and was like oh my gosh i still have a hundred thousand dollars of student loan debt and i hate it i don't want to you know this i feel this burden i'm trying to pay it off like that's somebody that you're like okay i can get on the same team we are we are running in the same direction and i think the same would be true you know for a spiritual aspect how you want to raise kids yeah um you know i mean that in -laws and family like these are big topics in life and when you marry somebody those topics collide And you're not always going to be the same person.

[1485] You're not going to marry the same, the clone of you, right?

[1486] So you're going to probably always have a different take, a different spin on these things.

[1487] But the overall direction is what you're looking for.

[1488] So, yeah, I don't think, I wouldn't find someone really attractive if he's like, I got $450 ,000 in debt and I'm about to go buy another property and keep leveraging myself.

[1489] I'm like, that's great for you.

[1490] But that's just not attractive to me. Like, I can't.

[1491] You know, and I would say the same thing, lines like that in a spiritual sense or with kids.

[1492] It's like, right, there's things that you're just like, we just won't be aligned in life.

[1493] So I don't think you're being too picky.

[1494] I would, I would say, you know, if you, if you called and said, yeah, just because he has that, I won't date him.

[1495] Yeah, that's no. I wouldn't say that that's, yeah, I would not go down that route.

[1496] Especially if they've been like, and I want to get out of it.

[1497] Right.

[1498] So it's all about where they're going and what the values are going forward.

[1499] But, but I think everyone has kind of that one subject in life that they're really passionate about.

[1500] with the other person, right?

[1501] And so naturally yours might be money, Rachel, not from a shallow perspective, but something that you really cherish your convictions and you really want to partner in this.

[1502] And I think that's big.

[1503] The thing to consider, especially with the debt aspect of this, is let's just say, you know, you've gone on four or five dates and it comes up at Applebee's and you start talking about it, remember, there's still time.

[1504] Like, you're not getting married tomorrow.

[1505] So if this guy has $60 ,000 of debt, there's time for him to pay that off before you get married.

[1506] Like, does that make sense?

[1507] Like, if you're really feeling some type of way of like, man, I really sacrificed to pay off my debt, I don't know if I have the stomach to go through another 60 ,000, just think about the fact that there's still a timeline.

[1508] Like, you're not getting married tomorrow.

[1509] And you'll be able to see if this person really does show and prove what their values are, because are they actively trying to get out of debt?

[1510] It has, has eight months passed and they've paid off nothing.

[1511] You know what I'm saying?

[1512] Like, you're, you're going to see that come out.

[1513] in the wash. So I wouldn't get too too hung up on it within, you know, the first few days or even the first few months necessarily if you're on the fence.

[1514] Does that make sense?

[1515] That makes sense.

[1516] Yeah.

[1517] I think that something was just like a bit of a flag.

[1518] He was like, oh, I have all this members like, but the government's going to cancel student debt.

[1519] So that's fine.

[1520] Oh, no. Red flag.

[1521] No. No. No. I feel like that for me. So maybe I should have added that.

[1522] And I was like, okay, there's one thing to like, no, you're at least he, I mean, some people don't even know how much money they're in debt.

[1523] But I felt really bad.

[1524] I was like, I felt really shallow.

[1525] And I know that it's one thing to ask for someone to not be in debt.

[1526] But this is great advice.

[1527] Thank you.

[1528] I just, I just walked away.

[1529] I was like, I have no idea how I feel about this.

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] And I think it's, I think, I think give yourself some grace too, because $450 ,000, even if he's trying to get out, that that is a, it's kind of a, you know, especially if it doesn't include a mortgage, that's a breathtaking number.

[1532] So I think that's fair that you're like, oh, gosh.

[1533] you know like that's a that is a lot of debt and so no I don't think you're being too judgmental I wouldn't I wouldn't count someone out just because they have debt it's all about the value system and where they're going moving forward and could you see yourself with them in the future right if they're walking that but that's separate and you're a very I mean to do what you've done even with a child you know like a what was she 30 years old and I mean I mean all of that like you that is a beautiful beautiful thing and you've made choice in life that are very mature and you've taken on a lot of responsibility in life.

[1534] And so I do think your husband has a high bar and I don't think that's a bad thing.

[1535] Hey, in the chat, I would love when people get a chance to put their thoughts on this in the chat, like what you're non -negotiable is.

[1536] Oh, like dating.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] And we can talk about it at some point because, listen, after paying off the debt that we paid off, if God forbid something happened to Sam Warshaw and I had to get out there in these streets, if somebody came at me, I don't know if I could.

[1539] stomach again oh it was just so much 30k would be like no so everybody's got their limits that's fair that's fair jane i'd be interested to know what you guys think about this throw it in the chats and uh maybe one day we'll talk about it this is the ramsie show you are listening to the ramsie show our scripture unquote of the day my favorite whoever picked this knows me galatians 5 -1 it's for freedom that crisis set us free stand firm then and do not let yourselves be burdened again by the same yoke of slay Lavery.

[1540] One version says, don't be entangled again by the same yoke of bondage.

[1541] Ooh, love it.

[1542] In other words, when you get out of debt, don't go back in.

[1543] Just putting that out there.

[1544] Okay.

[1545] And then Janice Joplin says, you are what you settle for.

[1546] Oh.

[1547] Booy.

[1548] There you go.

[1549] Love it.

[1550] That's good.

[1551] That's good stuff.

[1552] All right.

[1553] Let's go straight to the phone lines.

[1554] The number is AAA 8255 -225 if you ever want to give us a call.

[1555] We're going to go to Eric, who's in Austin, Texas.

[1556] What's going on, Eric?

[1557] Hey, y 'all.

[1558] It's so great to speak to you guys.

[1559] How are y 'all today?

[1560] Happy Friday.

[1561] Oh, my goodness, you guys.

[1562] This is great.

[1563] Let me take a deep breath here.

[1564] I'm kind of nervous.

[1565] Hey, so I am calling because I started out kind of in a position like you were, Jada, and I had $215 ,000.

[1566] And that was, I know, it was a lot.

[1567] It was between student loans, two cars, a credit card, some medical bills and whatnot.

[1568] not, but I'm down to about $77 ,000 now.

[1569] Nice.

[1570] I've really, yeah, I've been really building that snowball, but I've come to the final mountain here, that final amount of debt that I've come up to, and everything else prior to has only been like $10 ,000 or $20 ,000, and now I'm facing a $78 ,000 mountain.

[1571] So my first question is, what piece of advice do you have for somebody that has been, like, really pushing and really going through this, this snowball method for the past couple years, and it's just like, you know, you're tired.

[1572] How many years has it been?

[1573] I started this in 2020, so I've been doing this for, we're coming up on four years now.

[1574] It's been a lot.

[1575] Listen, that is a lot.

[1576] And four years is a lot.

[1577] So congratulations.

[1578] Let me be the first one to just kind of like clap you up and say, very good.

[1579] The 78 ,000, what is that big chunk?

[1580] What is it?

[1581] That's all student loans.

[1582] That's all left over for my student loans.

[1583] months, yes, ma 'am.

[1584] Ooh, I know the feeling.

[1585] Oh, I know the feeling so well.

[1586] So the 78 ,000, let me ask you this.

[1587] Is it one, like I remember ours was one payment, like it was a chunk of 78 ,000, but if you looked closely, it was actually a bunch of little loans grouped into that one payment.

[1588] Is yours like that?

[1589] One is just one giant loan at this point.

[1590] I think I worked with my parents at one point to just what do we do we consolidated from Sally Mae into like another organization and it's just one giant sum at this point.

[1591] With one interest rate and one account number and one everything, right?

[1592] Correct, yes ma 'am.

[1593] Okay.

[1594] So I'm sorry about that.

[1595] That is tough.

[1596] It's hard to see that.

[1597] The good news it's your last one.

[1598] Probably another set of good news is how much are you able to chunk away at it every single month?

[1599] Well, that kind of leads me to my second part of the question is I'm currently in Austin and as you know, the tech industry isn't necessarily very reputable for staying consistent whenever it comes to jobs.

[1600] So I've actually put myself into store mode because I believe that my organization will be doing layoffs here in the next couple months.

[1601] So that's my struggle.

[1602] It's not only do I have this mountain in front of me, but I also have, you know, to kind of put everything aside temporarily before I can start paying my student loans again.

[1603] So that's kind of my predicament.

[1604] It's probably smart for you to do that.

[1605] I want to go back to your first question, which is, I've been in this four years, what do I do to stay motivated?

[1606] Right now, you kind of have a little bit of a, I don't want to call it a breather, because you're still stacking up as much money as you can.

[1607] But what I think is really important, and just for anybody listening, you know, we say all the time on here, the average person is out of debt, you know, in two years or less.

[1608] And it's important to remember that there's people to the right of that average number.

[1609] And my guess is, you know, if you continue paying off this, that you might have another year or two into this so that you're going to be six years in, which I relate to.

[1610] And I do think that for you and anyone listening, you have to have to include milestones of your own, ways that you can celebrate, ways that you can, the way I describe it is like a humpback whale, right?

[1611] A humpback whale is swimming along.

[1612] He's swimming, he's going after it.

[1613] He's doing what he, and every once in a while, he jumps out.

[1614] And he just like has that moment of like, oh, I can breathe and he goes back in and I think that that's the way you have to to navigate this because we say on here all the time beans and rice rice and beans gazelle intents you're not going inside of a restaurant unless you're working inside like and that's so so true especially when you're in that average but once you cross over into the four and five year mark there is a part of this that mentally for your health like you need to go into a restaurant like and and be I'm being clear like I am not talking to the folks in average I'm talking to my six figure freedom folks who have this six figure debt, in this case, $215 ,000, you're in this thing for an above average time, four, five, six years.

[1615] You need to become a humpback whale and you need to jump out and you need to do, maybe you did save up cash to replace a beater.

[1616] Okay, like go ahead and replace your beater.

[1617] If it's falling apart and you've got $8 ,000 in cash, do it.

[1618] I remember Sam and I it's a marathon.

[1619] Yeah, you're in a marathon.

[1620] And let me just, for the people listening, some of the things that Sam and I did in our debt payoff journey, which was seven and a half years, that was not paying off debt.

[1621] A, we cash flowed another vehicle because it was time, okay?

[1622] We did take a couple of very small trips like weekenders to like, okay, like we're good.

[1623] And again, this is at that four, five, and six year mark, right?

[1624] You just have to do something that you've said when we get to this point, we're doing that.

[1625] When we pay off that next Sally Mae or NellNet or Navian or whatever, you have.

[1626] When I get to 80 ,000, I'm doing this.

[1627] And when I get to 100 ,000, I'm doing this.

[1628] And so you have to set those milestones in there and set them ahead of time so that you don't feel the need to get sloppy.

[1629] All right.

[1630] So you've got 78 ,000 to go.

[1631] I feel like in that 78 ,000, there's probably one, one medium to decent milestone within that.

[1632] And you've got probably two years to go after a four -year journey.

[1633] Sounds like you've been hitting it pretty hard.

[1634] So how much you make a year, Eric?

[1635] I make after taxes probably about 4 ,800 a month to about 5K a month.

[1636] Okay.

[1637] Yeah.

[1638] So I mean...

[1639] And so my goal is...

[1640] Go ahead.

[1641] Oh, go ahead.

[1642] I'm sorry.

[1643] No, you go.

[1644] I want to hear what you have to say.

[1645] Sure.

[1646] My goal is to pay it off by the time I'm 30.

[1647] Right now, I'm in 28 and a half.

[1648] And so I just, I really want to get after it.

[1649] And I've been very good, a gazelle intense about this.

[1650] And I want to pay it off and I want to get rid of it by the time I'm 30.

[1651] But, you know, just 77 ,000 staring at that mountain to me. And you're right, I need to set those milestones.

[1652] I guess I need to be a humpback whale in the situation.

[1653] Yeah, and Eric, I like what Jade said.

[1654] I haven't heard you say this before, Jay, but I'm like, that is so true.

[1655] Be intentional with those milestone moments, too, because I think there is a point that you're just so exhausted, that you're like, oh, and there can be a sloppiness in the milestone celebration, and you end up spending more than you think, right?

[1656] And so it's like, you're being so proactive.

[1657] It's part of the plan as you look out that you're like, I'm planning.

[1658] planning for this at this date.

[1659] This is how much I'm going to spend here to enjoy this to get that breath of fresh air to keep on moving.

[1660] But when you get to the point of complete exhaustion, sometimes then that's when you're like, oh my gosh, I'm going to make, you could make some poor choices out of pure exhaustion if you haven't planned for it.

[1661] So as intentional as you can be, which kind of takes the fun of out of it sometimes.

[1662] But it gives you something to look forward to.

[1663] Yes.

[1664] And it's not a trip to Europe because I already heard, I heard somebody thinking, I can finally take that trip.

[1665] It's not a trip to Europe.

[1666] It is not a seven -day vacation.

[1667] What'd you say?

[1668] I said not me taking a trip to Europe last year.

[1669] Uh -oh.

[1670] Listen, I'm not going to go off because I don't know the details.

[1671] But my point is, be a humpback whale.

[1672] And since you did take that trip to Europe, this next milestone is not going to be quite as extravagant.

[1673] It's going to be, you know, I mean, it's different for different people, the things that you value.

[1674] I know for me, it was including certain things that I had.

[1675] cut off for such a long time.

[1676] Like, I was like, listen, I'm going to start getting my nails done again.

[1677] Like, it was certain self -care things that I was like, I'm not doing this anymore.

[1678] And I've worked really hard.

[1679] And so you have to be reasonable.

[1680] And I mean, I can't decide what that's going to be for you on this phone call.

[1681] But you have to be reasonable and figure out what that is.

[1682] For us, we had one vehicle and the windows were held up by shoestring.

[1683] So it was like, listen, we've got the money saved.

[1684] It's time to upgrade the car.

[1685] And I remember calling in the Dave Ramsey show and saying to Dave, can I do this?

[1686] And I think that's what happens.

[1687] And this shows me that he's in the right spot.

[1688] When you're just so in it that you don't even, you can't see the forest for the trees anymore.

[1689] And you need somebody to tell you that you can take a break.

[1690] That's a good indicator that it's time to take a break.

[1691] So good.

[1692] Really proud of you.

[1693] Good job, Jade.

[1694] Glad you were here today.

[1695] Thank you.

[1696] So good.

[1697] I'm glad you were here too.

[1698] Such good stuff.

[1699] We have fun together.

[1700] Again, Jade Warshaw here, Rachel Cruz.

[1701] You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

[1702] Thanks for hanging out with us.

[1703] And make sure you see us on.

[1704] down the line on the next Ramsey show.

[1705] Hey folks, Dave here.

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