397 - Doers of Knowing

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hardstark.

[3] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[4] The podcasting begins now.

[5] And now we start to talk about true crime.

[6] Go.

[7] Now.

[8] Now talk about it.

[9] Now.

[10] But in a funny, lighthearted way.

[11] But not too lighthearted.

[12] But not too lighthearted.

[13] Well, here's something that we can talk about in a purely conversational way, which is how this podcast was founded.

[14] Gypsy Rose Blancher.

[15] who is basically how everybody in this country learned about Munchausen's Biproxy Syndrome is going to be paroled.

[16] Now, if you don't know that story and you are listening to this podcast, you have some catching up to do.

[17] Yeah.

[18] And you could start with that HBO documentary, Mommy Dead and Dearest, which is great.

[19] So good.

[20] And then I think there's also a scripted version.

[21] The story itself is so beyond belief.

[22] Yeah.

[23] It's the kind of thing where you're like, how could this go on for so long.

[24] You're like, I know why it could go on for so long.

[25] Because can you imagine accusing a mother of making her own child sick on purpose, basically because she has that disease?

[26] It's unheard of.

[27] It's unbelievable.

[28] It happened.

[29] And the fallout and consequences that led to the daughter, Gypsy Rose, in prison is also wild.

[30] I mean, I hope she can live a full happy life now.

[31] But maybe, yeah, I'm sure she's gotten a lot of therapy.

[32] Right.

[33] And basically get a chance to live a life as the person she is supposed to be.

[34] Totally.

[35] Under her own agency.

[36] It's just extreme abuse, extreme psychological and medical abuse.

[37] That's a thing.

[38] Maybe.

[39] Physical for sure.

[40] Physical for sure.

[41] Yeah.

[42] Wild.

[43] Terrible.

[44] Wishing well for her.

[45] The thing I was thinking about recently because I was thinking about a different story that we have been talking about.

[46] Now I can't remember which one it was.

[47] It was one of those like driving in the car like, God, that's weird.

[48] And basically it's that idea.

[49] And maybe because my mom was a psychiatric nurse growing up, so this was a little bit more in the common conversation.

[50] But that idea that there are these very rare kind of syndromes that people can have, something like Munchausen by proxy, which is like takes you to this unimaginable area.

[51] Yeah.

[52] But it is possible in the realm of.

[53] of possibility of why a person might be doing a thing they're doing.

[54] Because it's happened enough times that there's an actual name for it and it's in the DSM.

[55] It's not like, you know, this rare thing that nobody knows about.

[56] It's an actual.

[57] It's not a one -off, right?

[58] Yeah, which is like, holy shit.

[59] Yeah.

[60] What's another one that your mom was interested in?

[61] Oh, my mom was always, well, my mom was very lucy -goosey with it conversationally because you'd always be like if somebody was like yelling in the grocery store in a weird way she had this thing like I think they've gone organic and that's like if you've gone organic your brain matter has started to turn to us it's gone organic I think it's a medical term it wasn't a joke term she was always very serious serious about it okay she wasn't judging people either yeah she was literally kind of giving them their diagnosis and then if something was actually happening she'd be one of the first people to like go over and be like excuse me my name's pat do you need to help?

[62] Like, she would get, oh, yeah.

[63] Did she hate it?

[64] She was the queen of getting into business.

[65] No, it was, it was so normal that it just kind of felt like, well, she's the one that handles stuff like this.

[66] Yeah.

[67] See, I guess when my mom did it and she wasn't a nurse, it was like, mom, leave those people alone.

[68] Your mom's an actual, like, professional.

[69] My mom would just yell at someone else's kid to stop screaming in public.

[70] Looking back, she's not, she wasn't wrong.

[71] Right.

[72] In some ways, right.

[73] No, my mom wouldn't.

[74] ever, she would let it get to the level where instead of having the police come, maybe we'll see if we can solve this with like the grocery store manager and or whatever.

[75] Wow.

[76] Could you put your mom.

[77] Because she saw the other side of that all the time.

[78] Yeah, totally.

[79] It wasn't a big deal to her.

[80] I just watched the new documentary about Jimmy Saville.

[81] I don't know why.

[82] Yeah, I insist on continuing to watch documentaries about him.

[83] Like I, he's the fucking awful once famous now hated pedophile from the UK.

[84] He had a key at Broadbush.

[85] which we talk about Broadmoor Hospital for the criminally insane, as it's called.

[86] And I don't know why I keep watching documentaries about him.

[87] So upsetting.

[88] You want to hear my guess?

[89] It's because he is an apex predator.

[90] So it's kind of like watching something about Great White Sharks where you're just like, oh, wow, I hope I never swim in that part of the ocean or whatever.

[91] But it's like, that's the kind of person where you go, okay, what is this?

[92] That's very similar to I just watched the documentary on Netflix.

[93] Now we really, by the way, we can talk about all these things now because the strike for writers.

[94] Yeah.

[95] The strike has ended.

[96] I just watched the unscripted documentary series on Netflix about the Boy Scouts.

[97] Oh, shit.

[98] Oh, no. So we're in the same mindset of like.

[99] We've gone to the same dark, dark mindset.

[100] It's because somebody was talking about it just going, it's just kind of staggering.

[101] And I think this is what's interesting these days is like, Jimmy's.

[102] Saville was a very popular British host of like kind of a teen, what I remember from that, the documentary I saw was like a dance show.

[103] He was like, top of the pop.

[104] So it'd be like Rick Dees, who like, I know is famous anymore, but like for us.

[105] He's famous to us from our era.

[106] He's like the Carson Daily, beloved.

[107] The last person you'd expect.

[108] It's that, exactly.

[109] Which is what they always do.

[110] Right.

[111] But he was like, he talked.

[112] Like they could show interview.

[113] after interview of him saying the most inappropriate, basically admitting that he's into young girls and sexual assault, like over and over and then we go, oh, you, oh, Jimmy, our Jimmy.

[114] Like, nobody wanted to know that that was an issue back then.

[115] Nobody wanted to acknowledge it.

[116] It was until the late 90s, this document talks about that a child sexual abuse, like, police force even came about because they were like, well, that's not, nobody does that.

[117] That's not a problem.

[118] and it's none of our business.

[119] And the guy who was the head of that team even said, oh, everyone thought it was like a woman's problem, like for women to deal with.

[120] I mean, it's so troubling.

[121] To add to that, I was just going to say it makes me think of when everyone started talking about Schneid O 'Connor when Shnade O 'Connor died and like everybody talking about, she was such a great fighter and such a whatever.

[122] And it's like, I remember Dave Holmes tweeted this thing where it's like she was fucking right the first time.

[123] This is almost insulting at this point to pretend that everybody was So what a great fighter.

[124] It's like no one says that real time, especially about women.

[125] It's always, oh, shut up.

[126] She's making a problem.

[127] Oh, she's crazy, whatever.

[128] Schneid O 'Connor was fighting that.

[129] She was one of the only people actually saying it.

[130] And the context was out of context because in Ireland and also in the UK, like that discussion of child sexual assault in the Catholic Church had just begun.

[131] It had not begun.

[132] The spotlight story that we all know.

[133] was that movie had not started yet.

[134] So, like, that whole idea of, it was so easy to just go, how dare you, the Pope is Breon reproach or the Catholic Church, how dare you say a word?

[135] And it's like, no, I dare.

[136] And she herself was a victim.

[137] So she's like, yeah, I'm talking about it.

[138] This needs to be discussed.

[139] Well, it's crazy to, like, applaud someone for being a fighter when, like, they fought because they had to.

[140] No one's, like, try to be a fighter.

[141] They're like, I'm trying to do a thing and you're making me fight you.

[142] is that like how am I being applauded for still standing up for what's right yeah well and and also it's like everybody does that after the fact right I think people because back then pre -digital age truly it was just like no one knew anything and everyone was allowed to quote unquote not know things and just be like what we don't know what you're talking about right and this day and age how could you not see how could you not know yeah well anyways I'm taking my voice vitamins and I'm feeling a lot better lately.

[143] Oh, good.

[144] Good.

[145] Speaking of way to put a silver lining on that.

[146] Thank you.

[147] Horrifying conversation.

[148] I know.

[149] I don't know how else to scoge out of it.

[150] But no, I think that was a great one just to do a little integration for some sort of vitamin company.

[151] Yeah, right?

[152] This isn't a commercial.

[153] I just say that to say that like, you know, everyone's like, take your vitamins.

[154] You'll feel better.

[155] Take your vitamins.

[156] You'll be a better.

[157] Like, I've started taking my vitamins, like begrudgingly.

[158] and I am not at the depression's a lot better.

[159] Good.

[160] That's how that relates to the conversation we're just having is I've been less depressed lately, even though I watch it like that.

[161] Are you taking magnesium?

[162] Is that one of the - Magnesium is the fucking cure -all.

[163] Everyone, take your magnesium, as Karen has said before.

[164] Also, though, citrate, exactly.

[165] Check what kind of magnesium you need.

[166] You're just like my sister.

[167] My sister did the same thing where I was like, because I was taking it when I couldn't sleep and it was working like a charm.

[168] but also the calming effects.

[169] It has the anxiety.

[170] I told my sister, who has been an anxious person since she was a child.

[171] And she was like, no way.

[172] This is crazy.

[173] Like, she's like, this is insane.

[174] I told my mom.

[175] I told my mom to take it.

[176] It's such an important thing.

[177] Get your blood test done every year, you guys, and check your hormones and your levels.

[178] Because it could just be like you're low on vitamin D. And that's why you have clinical, not that I still have clinical depression.

[179] I'm still on my medication.

[180] and it'll never not be, but like, you're not helping yourself.

[181] Yes, there's ways to help yourself.

[182] There's ways.

[183] What else up with you?

[184] Not much else.

[185] I got my teeth clean this morning.

[186] It's been a little while, not a crazy amount of time, but since like the beginning of the year.

[187] And it feels so good.

[188] It just, I forgot.

[189] Yeah.

[190] When you get everything, like, just scraped off real good.

[191] And now's the day to whiten them, too, because they're like, they're like, press -wraub babies.

[192] They're down to the bone I got these big fake ones So I don't know how much that actually applies But you'll never have to whiten your teeth again You've got the nice ones These big fakeies But she did use that When they go to polish And it's that super gritty toothpaste that they use I don't know why But I have loved that since I was a child Did I already tell you that?

[193] It's like an exfoliation.

[194] No, I didn't know that Yeah I actually when I was a kid asked our dentist, Dr. Brown, if I could please buy some, if he could tell me where I could buy some.

[195] And he laughed so hard.

[196] And I completely meant it.

[197] I wasn't trying to cute.

[198] Because I was just like, how good would it feel if I could brush my teeth with this stuff every night?

[199] You could use baking soda and some water, right?

[200] That's gritty.

[201] Yeah.

[202] But it's probably not good for your teeth to scrape the enamel off every night.

[203] Yeah.

[204] I don't know.

[205] And also baking soda is so salty.

[206] That's true.

[207] That stuff is like the perfect, weird.

[208] It feels like something, you should be putting on a car or something and it's like, and yet it tastes like bubblegum.

[209] It's so delicious.

[210] Oh, God.

[211] So disgusting.

[212] Yeah.

[213] That's my breaking news.

[214] What about you?

[215] I'm reading a book.

[216] It's historical fiction, which is my absolute favorite topic ever.

[217] And it was like always on the list like best historical fiction.

[218] It's the same with vitamins.

[219] Like, you should do this.

[220] And I like, I don't want to do it then.

[221] Then I'm not going to read that book.

[222] Then I'm not going to take my vitamins.

[223] And then I do it.

[224] And I'm like, oh.

[225] Yeah.

[226] So it's called a gentleman in Moscow.

[227] by Amortals, T -O -W -L -E -S.

[228] It's this beautiful book.

[229] It takes place between World War I and World War II about a guy in house arrest in a hotel in Moscow.

[230] It's incredible.

[231] There's so much cool historical facts about it.

[232] And then I found out the guy who's been booked to play.

[233] Oh, wait, can I talk about the actor?

[234] What if you do a cliffhanger and you say you found out who it is and will tell you once the SAG Strike is over?

[235] Yeah, so start reading.

[236] it now and it like fits perfectly and I love this actor so I'm like well okay now I'm picturing him when I'm listening to the book and it's lovely it's a beautiful fucking book a gentleman in Moscow okay I think I started that book because that's one of the books on my dad's guest room nightstand it's a total dad book for sure okay like my brother who's a dad has read it oh nice okay that's a good one all right should we get into some network news let's do it network news that's funny oh you love that show over on the exactly right podcast network we've got a bunch of stuff going on.

[237] For example, this week, Kate and Paul discussed the 1894 murder of the Meeks family on buried bones.

[238] And they're going to be untangling all the details of one of the most horrific crimes in Missouri's history on that episode.

[239] And then on this podcast, we'll kill you.

[240] Aaron and Aaron are covering everything you need to know about migraines.

[241] Fascinating.

[242] Every time I see a new topic they're doing, I get excited.

[243] It's such a great podcast.

[244] Yeah, so much good information over there.

[245] And if you love listening to the Weird News podcast, Bananas, or the SVU podcast, that's messed up, get excited because they are both heading out on tour this fall.

[246] You can go see all of those hilarious people live, follow their shows on Instagram, and that's where you're going to get all that tour information.

[247] So you don't miss them when they come to your town.

[248] Great, great live shows.

[249] Like so much fun.

[250] Yeah.

[251] And if you plan on trick -a -treating on Halloween or a big fan at the farmer's market, hey, well, I like both.

[252] Head to the MFFM store and check out some of our cute tote bags that you can fill with candy or carrots or whatever you want.

[253] MFM tote bags.

[254] Hell yeah, my favorite murder .com.

[255] Good one.

[256] Good one, Aaron.

[257] Good one, like thinking of a new use for those things.

[258] She's bringing it all together of like, what would interest people in a tote bag?

[259] What a martyno is like, Halloween and farmers markets and books.

[260] Take yours to the library.

[261] And then it's just like a trifecta of what murderinas are into.

[262] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[263] Absolutely.

[264] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[265] Exactly.

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[270] Give your point -of -sale system a serious episode.

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[279] important note that promo code is all lowercase go to shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today that's shopify .com slash murder goodbye I'm going first this week okay exciting this story that I'm about to tell you it takes place in the roaring 20s in Los Angeles California love it if you watched the first season of Perry Mason This story will seem familiar to you.

[280] Frank's kind of punishing me for the fact that he can't be where he wants to be.

[281] What's his deal?

[282] He doesn't like that I shut the door when I record in here.

[283] But if he comes in, he's loud.

[284] He won't be loud, but Blossom will be loud because she has to bark at people who walk by in the window.

[285] Sure.

[286] Anyway, it's a roaring 20s in post -war America.

[287] People are reeling from overwhelming death, destruction, and the austerity of World War I. And of course, Americans are now doing everything they can to basically make the most of the fact that the war is over.

[288] They're doing a lot of big spending and a lot of heavy partying.

[289] And young Americans are pushing back against their parents' traditional values, basically kind of attributing those values for getting them into that war in the first place.

[290] So suddenly, traditional religion is being turned away from and people are exploring spiritualism, the occult and mysticism.

[291] which become a big part of pop culture at the time.

[292] And we did talk about spiritualism in episode 363 when I told you all about the death of Harry Houdini and his fight against spiritualism.

[293] Basically, it was based on the idea that it was possible for certain people to contact the dead.

[294] And so that idea was very comforting for people who'd lost loved ones, but it also spawned a ton of scam artists.

[295] So this is the era that we're in right now.

[296] And then the 20s in Los Angeles, Angeles is having this huge growth spurt between the oil industry and show business.

[297] Both of those industries are like there's just a boom in Los Angeles.

[298] So because of that, people from across the country are being lured to L .A. by this idea of being able to find their fame and fortune in a city like this.

[299] There seems to be opportunity everywhere.

[300] And a lot of these transplants fit a certain kind of mold.

[301] They're young.

[302] They're idealistic.

[303] They're adventurous.

[304] They're open -minded.

[305] And perhaps because of that, L .A. residents become very, very interested in the zeitgeisty alternative spiritual practices that start getting really popular.

[306] We love to be on trend in Los Angeles, and we love to pretend that aliens from a volcano are going to help us get a part on a TV show.

[307] That's who we are as people.

[308] It's simple, really.

[309] It's been this way since the 20s, since the roaring 20s.

[310] so the main source of the story I'm about to tell you is from a book it's one book written by a man called Samuel Fort and it's called the cult of the great 11 and Samuel Fort actually has a theory on this and he thinks that the open -mindedness of many LA transplants in the 20s drive an absolute boom in religious cults during this period and because they are everywhere and a 20th century religious scholar named Dr. Lewis Brown, who was actually based in Santa Monica, claims that he counted around 400 cults operating in the L .A. Metro area in the latter part of the 20s.

[311] Holy shit.

[312] 400.

[313] So today I'm going to tell you about one of these cults run by a mother -daughter con -artress duo who prayed upon people's hopes of spiritual renewal, eternal life, and of course, money, money.

[314] money.

[315] This is the story of May Otis Blackburn and her daughter Ruth Wyland Rizio, who started the Divine Order of the Royal Arms of the Great 11.

[316] Some people call it the Blackburn cult.

[317] That's usually how, if you're going to search it in a true crime way, the Blackburn cult is what most people call it.

[318] But Samuel Fort calls them the cult of the Great 11, because that's the actual name.

[319] Blackburn cult is based on the mother's married name.

[320] Right.

[321] And so we do.

[322] what Samuel Fort does because he truly is the primary source of the story I'm about to tell you.

[323] So this is the story of the cult of the great 11.

[324] Okay, so it starts in August of 1881.

[325] That's when May Otis is born in Storm Lake Iowa.

[326] I don't know much about her early life, but she marries for the first time when she's just 16 years old to a man named John Wyland.

[327] And he is a bummer.

[328] Of course, May is very soon disappointed by his gambling and his knack for basically just taking off and going on long adventures and staying away for a while.

[329] So by July of 1890, just two years after they get married, they separate and Ruth is pregnant.

[330] So basically during that separation trial, John vanishes.

[331] May gives birth alone and she names her daughter Ruth.

[332] So May starts telling people that John is dead and she claims that she got a letter from a doctor in California telling her John, was shot and killed in a workplace dispute.

[333] Of course, May is under a ton of financial stress as a single mother, and so she's forced to make a drastic plan.

[334] Her parents plan to move from the Midwest to Oregon, and so she decides to send Ruth, her newborn daughter, to go live with her parents.

[335] Of course, she loves her child.

[336] She does not want to be separated from her, especially by such a long distance, but she is still a teenager and a single parent.

[337] And it is the late 1800s, so she basically has to do what she has to do to ensure her daughter's survival and safety.

[338] She sent her daughter with her parents to Oregon, and she heads to Minnesota to start her life over again.

[339] She's both beautiful and charming.

[340] And around 1900, the turn of the century, my favorite time.

[341] Hey.

[342] Hey, girl.

[343] She meets and marries a man named Rudolph Schultz.

[344] I immediately called him Rudy in this document.

[345] Rudy is absolutely in love with May, but that may be in part because May has never told her new husband that she has a daughter, that she already has been married, that she has a baby.

[346] Instead, she tells him she has a baby sister in Portland, Oregon, who she loves and Mrs. dearly, so much so that she convinces Rudy to move with her to Portland.

[347] And then when they get there, he gets a job that pays him $150 a month.

[348] Damn.

[349] That sounds like a lot, right?

[350] Oh, I'll tell you, $150 would be worth $5 ,500 in today's money.

[351] Holy shit.

[352] So he's making good money at his new job.

[353] May is able to convince him to give her $125 of those dollars, and he gets to keep 50.

[354] For like upkeep of the house?

[355] No, no, sorry.

[356] He gets to keep 25.

[357] Girl math, girl math.

[358] So basically, she keeps the overwhelming majority of his paycheck.

[359] It's just a kind of a little anecdote that goes toward May's beauty and her, maybe manipulation, maybe her just powers of persuasion, whatever it is.

[360] So after five years of marriage in 1906, May comes to Rudy and she has some shocking news.

[361] She tells him she's just found out that her first husband, John, who she thought was dead, is actually alive.

[362] and that means that her marriage to Rudy is invalid because she never ended her first marriage.

[363] She just thought it was over because he was dead.

[364] The truth is that May's first husband, John Weiland, was not shot and killed in a workplace dispute in California.

[365] So the doctor's note that May had been showing people at the time was probably faked, probably by her.

[366] Rudy desperately wants to make it work with May despite this hitch, but she's already gone.

[367] She basically comes and says, this is an invalid marriage, and then she leaves him, immediately starts dating a married man named Fremont Everett, who also happens to be very, very rich.

[368] And he also spends tons of money on May. He gives her entire apartment buildings in Portland.

[369] What?

[370] Buildings plural.

[371] So she gets the income from those apartment buildings.

[372] Holy shit.

[373] Lovely gift, but May wants more.

[374] So she keeps dating him.

[375] But she's also setting her sights on another man. His name is George Edward Bloom.

[376] And it turns out May had read an article about George in the newspaper about how he'd recently won a $3 ,000 settlement after a workplace accident.

[377] And that settlement is about $90 ,000 in today's money.

[378] Wow.

[379] So May goes and tracks him down, asks him out, they date, and then she eventually marries George Bloom.

[380] I'm just going to break it to you now, the marriage, does not last.

[381] So now it's the mid -1910s.

[382] May's daughter, Ruth, is a teenager.

[383] And Ruth knows that May is her biological mother.

[384] The two women are very close, but they still refer to each other as sisters.

[385] And when I read that line, I was like, okay, May is definitely a narcissist, if not a malignant narcissist, because she's doing exactly what she wants, kind of seducing, getting her way, whatever.

[386] But on top of that kind of like, I'm not your mother, I'm your sister.

[387] Like, what?

[388] Let's just be best friends.

[389] She's manipulating everyone.

[390] Yeah.

[391] So her daughter Ruth is repeatedly described as one of the most beautiful young women in Portland.

[392] Wow.

[393] So she's a magnet for male attention.

[394] So by the time she's 17 years old, May starts getting ideas, she's like, I think she could be a movie star.

[395] Basically, May takes all her money from my guest, the apartments and from George Bloom's, injury and from all the different money over the years.

[396] And she sinks the bulk of her savings into making two movies for her daughter to star in.

[397] One is called Nugget in the Ruff and the other is called A Tale of a Dress.

[398] Okay.

[399] And now these movies, I don't think were, I mean, they never, we never heard about them, right?

[400] You've never seen them on T -CM.

[401] Nugged in a Ruff?

[402] No, it doesn't ring a bell.

[403] Not familiar, really, but they are historically significant because they are some of the first film ever shot of Portland, Oregon.

[404] Oh, wow.

[405] So it's really old footage, you know, from the tens of Portland, which is cool.

[406] And local people love these movies.

[407] Like, they go to see them, they're perceived, everyone loves them.

[408] But beyond that, they don't get marketed nationwide or anything.

[409] Local jokes get local work.

[410] I tell you this and I tell you this.

[411] Even so, Mae believes Ruth could make it in Hollywood, and she also thinks she could make it in Hollywood as a director.

[412] Let's all go to Hollywood.

[413] And we can all make it in Hollywood if we just believe.

[414] So the two leave their lives in Portland, and they relocate to Los Angeles.

[415] So when they get there, Ruth does get a couple bit parts in movies, but she isn't taking Hollywood by storm the way her mother thought.

[416] because what happens to everyone when they're the prettiest girl in Portland, Oregon, and they move to Los Angeles?

[417] You're a Los Angeles six when you were a Portland nine.

[418] You could hope to be a Los Angeles six.

[419] And also, May isn't getting hired as a director anywhere.

[420] No shit.

[421] A woman in the fucking teens isn't getting hired as a director anywhere?

[422] She's walking and going, it's me, May Wile and Schultz Bloom, the director of Nugget in the Ruff.

[423] It's me. How, don't you know who I am?

[424] So to make ends meet, Ruth becomes what's called a taxi dancer.

[425] She's a private dancer, a dancer for money.

[426] Do what you want me to do.

[427] You know the song.

[428] So basically that just means that she's a hired dance partner who hangs around dance halls and clubs.

[429] Oh.

[430] And men pay her based on the amount of time they spend together like you'd pay a cabby for a taxi.

[431] Okay.

[432] So it's not exotic dancing.

[433] It's a dance club.

[434] It's almost like, you know, the Japanese, like, hostess clubs where you sit and flirt and talk and everything like that.

[435] It's like that.

[436] With dancing and whatever.

[437] But I think it's basically maybe a baby step toward exotic dancing or toward sex work.

[438] Uh -huh.

[439] Ruth also was an exotic dancer.

[440] Okay.

[441] I think this was probably step one.

[442] Yeah.

[443] And then she's like, oh, right, there's tons of, you know, there's tons of guys around here that want to dance with a pretty girl.

[444] So she actually seems to.

[445] genuinely like these jobs and does very well at them.

[446] Her charm and beauty pulling a ton of male clients.

[447] Meanwhile, her mother May is very unhappy.

[448] Samuel Fort says, quote, for the first time in May's adult life, she was not in control.

[449] She found herself subject to the whims of fate in a strange and famously dispassionate city, which I don't know if you can describe Los Angeles any better than the very simple description of it's dispassionate.

[450] It doesn't give a shit.

[451] Yeah.

[452] That's all.

[453] That's true.

[454] You don't think that's that big of a deal.

[455] It's a really big deal when you get it.

[456] And you're like, oh, right.

[457] No one cares if I'm here or not.

[458] It doesn't matter.

[459] You got to bring your own passion.

[460] That's right.

[461] Like there isn't any here to spare.

[462] So you have to bring your own and hope it's enough.

[463] Bring your own passion and make it happen.

[464] Ooh.

[465] I'm just going to keep doing 80s song lyric quotes for the rest of this.

[466] So to pass the first of this.

[467] So to pass the, time may start spending hours studying the Bible.

[468] But not because she's a religious person.

[469] She has never been a religious person.

[470] What she is is an opportunist.

[471] And she has noticed the tidal wave of alternative religions that are exploding in Los Angeles at the time.

[472] And she sees a market to be exploited, which is kind of legendary.

[473] She's like, oh, this book here?

[474] Is this the one you're all going crazy about.

[475] I'm going to read it.

[476] Yeah.

[477] Why not?

[478] Got to do something.

[479] Become a cult leader.

[480] Actually, in this town, very common pipeline.

[481] So by 1921, May is 40 years old, Ruth's in her early 20s, and Ruth starts dating a 26 -year -old man named Arthur Carl Osborne.

[482] Arthur is head over heels in love with Ruth.

[483] And then one day, in their relationship, Ruth breaks some strange news to Arthur.

[484] She tells him that she and her mother are being visited every night by the Archangel Gabriel.

[485] Okay.

[486] And for those unfamiliar, Archangel Gabriel appears in both the Old and New Testament, Georgia, relevant to your people and my people.

[487] He's one of God's messengers.

[488] He is the one who actually reveals that the Virgin Mary will be giving birth to Christ.

[489] He's a very big deal.

[490] So Ruth explains, to Arthur, Gabriel says that she and her mother are God's two hand -picked witnesses, which are two people that are mentioned in the book of Revelations, the two witnesses.

[491] So she's like, it's us.

[492] It's been revealed where the witnesses and that they're here to announce the apocalypse.

[493] Oh.

[494] So Ruth says she and May are writing down everything Gabriel is telling them.

[495] And when they're done, they're going to compile it all into a big book.

[496] And thanks to Gabriel, they will basically have this book and they will be able to figure out where all the world's gold gems and oil deposits are located.

[497] I mean, there has to be some like preemptive persuasion to this person, right?

[498] You can't just like drop this in someone's lap.

[499] The preemptive persuasion is yet another pee and it is pussy.

[500] Preeemptive persuasion is the name of this podcast because is it can't be purr pussy.

[501] It can't, what could be the three P's, though.

[502] Three P's?

[503] And we're talking biblical pussy.

[504] And so that is like, this is witness pussy.

[505] I'm so sorry.

[506] And there are people that are trying to drive their children to school right now.

[507] Pull over.

[508] That's another P. Pull over.

[509] The four P's.

[510] No, I think it's the classic thing of you basically trick someone into loving you.

[511] and then they do whatever you want.

[512] And then they're kind of under your spell and everything you do is kind of great and everything you suggest is kind of what you want to do to.

[513] I've never been that hot.

[514] You know what I mean?

[515] So I guess I can't rent my head around it.

[516] Like I'm cute, but I'm not like that hot.

[517] I'm funny and so not hot that, yeah.

[518] I've always been the observer of like, interesting.

[519] Oh, you can do that?

[520] Maybe someday.

[521] Yes.

[522] So that's the kind of.

[523] of the running theme.

[524] I think Ruth probably learned it from her mother.

[525] That's what Ruth was doing to marry all those rich guys.

[526] Yeah, yeah.

[527] Each one richer than the last.

[528] We don't know if Arthur bought this story.

[529] I bet it was kind of like they're sitting at El Compadre and his stomach drops.

[530] And he's like, oh, no. Shit.

[531] I'm not going to stop sleeping with her.

[532] I'm not going to like leave.

[533] Yeah.

[534] Come on.

[535] So he probably wanted to keep her happy.

[536] Either way, he starts laying.

[537] lending them money for this project because that's ultimately what it comes to is we want to be compiling these books of these messages from Archangel Gabriel, but we need money to do it.

[538] Yeah.

[539] For paper and pens?

[540] Why?

[541] The problem is Arthur's not a rich man. He's not one of those people that May landed.

[542] At one point, he has to actually borrow cash from his employer.

[543] He got a big advance and he gave it to them.

[544] And then he was supposed to basically pay it back and he couldn't do it.

[545] And so he gets fired.

[546] But Ruth assures him he will be repaid when this book gets published and all the jewels of the world are revealed.

[547] I assure you, you will be paid back.

[548] Oh, you'll be getting some of the oil money that we get when the Archangel Gabriel.

[549] Because here's the thing about angels, they love money.

[550] Oh, totally.

[551] All throughout the Bible, they're like, yes, yes, the kingdom of heaven loves rich guys.

[552] It's not true at all.

[553] So now it's 1922.

[554] One afternoon, Arthur stops by Ruth's house for a visit, perhaps in between job interviews I wrote.

[555] You know what's about to happen.

[556] He walks up to the front door and what?

[557] They're gone.

[558] Oh.

[559] Not out of the house running errands, but actually they have skipped town without so much as a thanks for all your money, goodbye.

[560] So, of course, Arthur is heartbroken, dejected.

[561] He feels used.

[562] He basically just turns around and goes and joins the military.

[563] and ships off to who cares wherever she broke my heart, ship me to Guam.

[564] I don't care.

[565] So meanwhile, May and Ruth, what they've done is actually gone back to Portland because essentially May is thinking, well, we know people up there and we know people that will believe us when we say the archangel, Gabriel, is giving us these messages.

[566] So they start courting members of the public for donations for their book.

[567] And specifically, they target people.

[568] interested in faith healing, or people who are experiencing poverty, and much of their audience is women.

[569] People who are basically looking for a possibility, an opportunity, something to get them out of the position that they're in.

[570] So they have the same spiel as before.

[571] They're writing a book that's being dictated by the Archangel Gabriel.

[572] They've been identified as the witnesses.

[573] On top of that, the publication of the book is what's going to trigger the apocalypse.

[574] Oh.

[575] that sounds like a bad PR plan definitely it would make it so hard to then fundraise but what they're saying is we're going to trigger the apocalypse and like every cult everybody else dies except us and then will be left to go find the jewels and the oil and even though the dollar will have no value anymore still stop asking questions this is supposed to be a cult so the fundraising for the book quickly turns into basically a pitch for an entirely new religious order that May is the ringleader of.

[576] And she begins to build what Marin wrote as a sloppy theology, which made me laugh so hard.

[577] Oh, that's my punk band's name.

[578] Right?

[579] So good.

[580] But essentially, many researchers who've looked into this story believe that May was just making everything up on the fly.

[581] Her ideas are very convoluted.

[582] They're very hard to follow, which also, if you've ever read the Bible, also insanely convoluted and very hard to follow.

[583] I think that's key, kind of, right?

[584] Or it's like, interpret this how you want, because if we're too clear about it, you're going to be able to be like, it's going to be like spot the bullshit pretty easily.

[585] Right.

[586] Keep it kind of vague.

[587] Keep it a little foggy and talk fast.

[588] Works for us, right?

[589] That's the key to our success here on my favorite murder.

[590] Amen.

[591] now that's a religion i can get behind okay but the most important thing to know that basically may is able to drive home is that doomsday is coming soon but the best doomsday imaginable because their followers get to go straight to a new and better world and this new world is going to be very female centric may claims that she ruth and nine other queens 11 women total will rule the world from marble palaces on Olive Hill in Los Angeles.

[592] And do you know where Olive Hill is?

[593] Echo Park?

[594] It's Barnesdal Art Park.

[595] Oh, that's where, wow.

[596] You had your birthday one year.

[597] I had my birthday one year.

[598] I lived across the street from there.

[599] It's where we started the podcast.

[600] There's a Brinkloid right house there.

[601] Yeah.

[602] Okay.

[603] I was close.

[604] That's Los Phyllis, everyone.

[605] True.

[606] But I was thinking it was Echo Park.

[607] Further down.

[608] Listen, if you're a hipster, you know.

[609] What if we're a couple of the queens in this story?

[610] I didn't think about that part.

[611] I could buy it.

[612] Or anyone else that's gone to Barnesdall Art Park and had a picnic at any time in the past 80 years.

[613] Here's another part that I'm sure drew women of the 20s in at the time.

[614] Not only are they in charge because they're queens, each one of them will have 12 kings.

[615] And back to one of the original story points, they will all have gold, gems, and oil deposits as many as they could dream of.

[616] Okay.

[617] I love that idea that it's post -apocalyptic gold and oil deposits.

[618] Right.

[619] It's like selling them to whom for what?

[620] Exactly.

[621] What do you doing?

[622] Take your oil.

[623] I just want to like comfy couch or whatever.

[624] Look, you could have oil.

[625] And it's like, no thanks.

[626] To sell to whom?

[627] Of course, all of this in hindsight sounds ridiculous like any cult's belief system when you explain it out after the fact.

[628] But what matters is who's telling you the story and how well they're, They can make you believe it.

[629] We know that May was a very convincing person, always was.

[630] And she's not afraid to use theatrics to get people hooked.

[631] So the thing she would do with this story, she would pull out a massive storage chest, and it was filled with thick bundles of paper wrapped with twine.

[632] And she would pull them out and say, these are the raw dictations coming straight from Archangel Gabriel's mouth.

[633] And on the cover of these bundles, there would be pages with religious kind of esoteric, gibberish written all over them, that was like the proof.

[634] But you wouldn't let anybody touch them or read them or look at them up close.

[635] And of course, after the fact, it's revealed much, much later that all the pages in these bundles are blank.

[636] Yeah.

[637] It's like wrapping a lot of $1 bills and $100 bill.

[638] I mean, like, look at all these $100 bills.

[639] But most importantly, in a situation like this, no one's looking past the cover and kind of no one wants to.

[640] It's just like, just tell me that there's more to life than this.

[641] What year is it at this point, ish?

[642] It's 1922, 23 maybe.

[643] Okay.

[644] So within a couple years, May and Ruth have managed to gain dozens of followers of what they're calling the divine order of the royal arms of the Great 11, the Great 11 for short.

[645] And in 1924, May moves the group back to Los Angeles.

[646] So she gets a bunch of Portlanders to move to L .A. That's like the biggest feat you've accomplished.

[647] You know how she did it?

[648] She was like, you can all be stand -up comics if you get.

[649] Just kidding.

[650] No, man, there's a lot of open mics.

[651] There's so much stage time.

[652] So much more stage time down there.

[653] So she rents a house for them to all live in together, big, huge rented house.

[654] And there, the members start printing religious pamphlets and circulating them throughout the city to attract more members.

[655] So it actually, in terms of the business they're about to be doing, she did.

[656] It's very smart business in terms of that kind of effectiveness.

[657] It's like go to a major city where the people actually are open to any and every idea and start papering the area.

[658] Meanwhile, May is doing all the classic cult leader stuff.

[659] She renames her followers, claiming that the new names will put them in harmony with the universe.

[660] Like one member is given the name, the Four Winds of the Whirlwind God.

[661] and another is named the circling of the minor scale in the harmony of music.

[662] Weird, huh.

[663] So not catchy, hard to put on a business card, but still.

[664] In another classic cult move, May starts restricting her followers' diets.

[665] She bans apples because they're the forbidden fruit of the Bible.

[666] Oh, yeah.

[667] But she also bans things like T -Bone steaks and walnuts.

[668] So she's like, yeah, that's like such a classic move.

[669] Like starve people and they'll be way more malleable.

[670] That's how you break people down psychologically.

[671] Right.

[672] Food and sleep.

[673] Your name isn't your name anymore.

[674] Don't talk to your family.

[675] All that.

[676] She's doing everything.

[677] She also has to pay for all these people in one house.

[678] So then this idea of like, T -bone steaks are against the Archangel Gabriel is like, yeah, good idea.

[679] Yeah, no more kettle one for you guys.

[680] It's all Tito's from here on out.

[681] Winners Cup was the vodka we used to buy at the grocery store in Sacramento, and it was truly the bottom shelf.

[682] Winners Cup.

[683] Winners Cup.

[684] I've never even heard of that.

[685] And I've drank some shit before.

[686] That's crazy.

[687] And it had a wonderful little horse on the label.

[688] We had a, we bought cigarettes for a 99 cents a pack in high school, and they were called smokes.

[689] No. They might have even had an exclamation mark.

[690] at the end of them.

[691] Smokes.

[692] Smokes.

[693] Like they were worse than like parliaments or Winston.

[694] Okay, go on.

[695] Sorry, go on.

[696] No, no. I love it.

[697] Oh, also another classic cult leader tactic.

[698] She makes all of the followers give her their paychecks.

[699] Paychecks, insurance payouts, military pensions, any real estate holdings, oil rights.

[700] She actually even makes them give her their cars.

[701] At the group's peak, she has collected a right.

[702] $300 ,000 from her followers, which is over $5 million in today's money.

[703] So with the follower she has, she is actually making bank.

[704] And then she pulls in a wealthy recruit named Clifford Dabney, whose family got rich off of oil.

[705] And he's very interested in this book of the teachings of the Archangel Gabriel about the apocalypse.

[706] and basically more specifically about the May's insistence that Gabriel will be revealing the Earth's hidden treasures.

[707] So he's banking on this idea that if he gets this book printed, that he will basically be investing to have all this wealth come back to him once the book is printed.

[708] Right.

[709] So it's like half smart and half so dumb that you're like, what, how are you?

[710] How?

[711] So he makes hefty donations to May. And he waits patiently for the book to be finished.

[712] And he also donates several acres of land in Seamy Valley to the group.

[713] Uh -huh.

[714] But May isn't as interested in finishing the book as she was because now she's real excited about that tract of land in Seamy Valley.

[715] So she moves out of this rental house because then she doesn't have to pay, right, anymore to this donated land.

[716] And they now have about 100 members.

[717] Wow.

[718] to live on this new property.

[719] And over the next year, the Great 11 members are the ones who actually build cabins, buildings, and even a temple for them all to live in on this property.

[720] Holy shit.

[721] So she has the cult members do the manual labor themselves.

[722] Yeah, of course.

[723] And inside that temple they built, there's an 800 -pound gilded throne that they say is reserved for when Christ returns to Earth.

[724] Wow.

[725] You know Jesus, that whole thing that he was about gold throne.

[726] Excuse me. I won't sit anywhere unless it's an 800 pound gold throne because I am Mr. materialistic, Jesus Christ.

[727] Jesus, age Christ of Jerusalem.

[728] You know me. So I love that idea.

[729] That's like that kind of thing where you get somebody a birthday present that you want.

[730] Right.

[731] You're like, don't you love it?

[732] And it's like, no, I've never been interested in this ever.

[733] I don't want this.

[734] But these construction projects are very expensive, obviously.

[735] So May is actually burning through the millions of $5 million that she's been donated.

[736] She's just, like, burning through it.

[737] So she comes up with a perfect solution to get the cult more money.

[738] She has her followers go work at a nearby tomato packing plant.

[739] Okay.

[740] Great idea.

[741] And, of course, all those paychecks come right back to her.

[742] And of course, this is exhausting.

[743] work.

[744] She basically has them doing manual labor at home and then going out and doing manual labor.

[745] So she has to now really work to keep her followers invested in this plan.

[746] So she secretly, this I love, she secretly hires people to start doing special effects during their meetings.

[747] So none of the members know this, but suddenly they're seeing flashing lights during the meeting or they hear disembodied voices.

[748] And of course, this is all just convincing them, this really is real and she's just called down to the Warner brothers and been like hey do you have any lighting guys I could hire for the day to come set up some stuff for me I mean who believes that shit I don't get it I guess these people who have kind of like maybe they already had a little bit of a propensity toward like the open mindedness quote unquote which sometimes you say open minded when you just mean not that bright right yeah yeah so you're just kind of like open to what -ofs that comes along.

[749] And also she starts doing these nighttime rituals.

[750] So it's getting cultier and cultier.

[751] The nighttime ritual, she has everybody wear matching robes.

[752] And then they take the robes off.

[753] They're naked.

[754] And they dance in the dark outside.

[755] Okay.

[756] And then they sacrifice animals.

[757] No. Right?

[758] Which is just kind of the hacky version of we're a cult.

[759] Yeah.

[760] Here's the not hacky version updated Los Angeles.

[761] version they also sacrifice a couple cars what i don't know maybe maybe people bummed out about the animal sacrifice yeah i don't know what that actually entails if it's like one of those rage things where you get to take a sledgehammer to a car i don't know in 1924 43 -year -old may marries a man who is 20 years younger than her and you know our instincts are to cheer during a story point like this only not when the guy that she marries is a guy like Ward Blackburn, who is also, big reveal, her stepbrother.

[762] Oh, no. Uh -huh.

[763] Ward, to put it mildly, is a loser.

[764] He brings nothing to the table, financially, socially.

[765] He's just nasty.

[766] He wears the same clothes until he stinks.

[767] He keeps his fingernails, prepare yourself, five inches long.

[768] so Marin wrote basically it's like the length of a soda can yeah yeah and then on top of that he's rumored to be a pedophile oh right so there's a ton of theories of why may would marry Ward first obviously she can manipulate him into doing whatever she wants that's one theory Another theory is May apparently has a real aversion to being touched.

[769] Like, the only person allowed to touch her is her daughter.

[770] There's a theory that Ward being a pedophile would have no interest in a middle -aged woman.

[771] He's probably causing problems for his family.

[772] So she's like, send him down here.

[773] I'll provide cover for him.

[774] And essentially, then he's my quote -unquote husband, but none of that marital stuff applies.

[775] us.

[776] It's also been alleged that May also was a pedophile.

[777] Or maybe just a psychopath.

[778] According to Samuel Fort, there are reports of May approaching young girls in public and asking their mothers to, quote, give them to her.

[779] And there's one case where May's driver actually stopped in front of a house in Simi Valley and began to approach an unattended child in their front yard.

[780] But before anything could happen, the kids' parents ran outside and chased the driver off with a gun.

[781] Oh, my God.

[782] So whether it was pedophilia directly or she was just like, oh, there's value in having children or whatever.

[783] It's just, it kind of points to, I think, that, like, there was nothing kind of internally.

[784] Yeah.

[785] Unhinged.

[786] They're unhinged.

[787] Yeah.

[788] There's no moral compass here.

[789] Yeah.

[790] It seems.

[791] So at this point, it's now the mid -1920s, and we're still only a couple of years into the Great Eleven's existence, which is kind of mind -blowing.

[792] And May's cult leader tendencies escalate.

[793] When people try to leave the group, she reportedly threatens stocks, extorts, and blackmails them.

[794] And in some cases, she has them kidnapped and returned to the property.

[795] Some people who speak out against May and against the cult go missing altogether, including Ruth's second husband.

[796] So Ruth, her second husband, husband was a 17 -year -old devout Catholic named Samuel Rizio, who, despite marrying Ruth, never liked the idea of the Great 11 and what they were all about.

[797] And in 1924, days after a fight between Samuel and Ruth that escalated into domestic violence, Samuel vanishes while on the cult property, it's later revealed that just before his disappearance, May asked several grade 11 members to go get her chloroform and poison.

[798] Yeah.

[799] So then in 1928, a member of the great 11 named Margaret comes to May with a request.

[800] She wants May to heal her sister, Francis Turner.

[801] Francis lives with multiple disabilities.

[802] She is unable to talk.

[803] She's affected by paralysis.

[804] She's in chronic pain.

[805] And she presumably never consents to this treatment.

[806] or even this idea, she's under the care of good doctors as she is.

[807] But Francis, in this cult, thinks that May has, like, superpowers, essentially.

[808] And so she's like, can you please heal my sister?

[809] So Francis is brought to Seamy Valley for a cure.

[810] There is no cure.

[811] May has no powers.

[812] So basically, she just starts making shit up.

[813] And this is where things turn nightmarish and it becomes outright torture.

[814] because May's idea for treating Frances is she puts her in a five -foot -wide brick structure that has chicken wire hanging horizontally from the ceiling.

[815] And according to Samuel Ford's book, quote, hot bricks from a nearby stove were being placed on top of the chicken wire, effectively turning the platform into a broiler.

[816] What the fuck?

[817] So Francis dies of asphyxiation within an hour of this treatment.

[818] It's unclear if May, ever genuinely thought she could heal Francis, but Samuel Fort writes that, quote, as soon as May realized she'd killed the woman, she jumped into her Lincoln and drove rapidly away.

[819] She left the disposal of Francis Turner's body to another cult member, and May had her followers dismantled the broiler and used the salvage bricks to build a walkway that led to the front door of one of the cabins.

[820] May took the bricks that were the instruments of Francis Turner's death and turn them into a path trodden underfoot every day by other cultists.

[821] Oh, my God.

[822] Oh, that's awful.

[823] Another death linked to the Great Eleven involves a teenage daughter of two cult members, that teenage daughters named Willa Rhodes.

[824] And Willa was very popular within the cult, especially with May. May adored Willa, so much so that she dubs her both a priestess and a queen of the Great Eleus.

[825] 11.

[826] Unfortunately, though, in late December of 1924, Willa develops a serious tooth infection that goes untreated, and she dies on New Year's Day of 1925, and she's just 16 years old at the time of her death.

[827] Of course, this looks very bad for May. May is supposed to be talking to directly to God, basically, through Archangel Gabriel.

[828] Why would she let, you know, someone who's actually a queen in this group?

[829] die why would God allow her to die if you know there's this big plan as willa's devastated parents figure out arrangements for their daughter's body may claims that she's just heard from an angel and she says that the angel says willa is going to be resurrected soon so they can't bury her instead she'll need to be preserved so willa's mother embalms her using a quote ancient recipe of herbs and ointments, and her body is then kept on ice, which is constantly replenished for weeks.

[830] As months pass, Willett is moved from location to location on the property, but never allowed to be properly buried.

[831] Oh my God.

[832] Yeah.

[833] There's a rumor that has been disproved, or that Samuel Fort in his book says there's almost no way this could be true.

[834] but there's a lot of people when they retell the story talk about that they were driving Willa's body around so that other people would see her, quote unquote, see her and think she was still alive.

[835] Yeah, but they think that's just kind of like basically this story is so crazy that it then kind of spawns additional crazy stories.

[836] Anyway, it still gets crazy because 14 months after Willa's death, May gives the road's approval to move Willa's body to, their new home in Venice, California, Venice Beach.

[837] They put Willa's body in a casket and then they place the casket in a hollowed out section of their bedroom floor under their bed.

[838] Oh, no. Uh -huh.

[839] They sleep above the body of their daughter for years, waiting for her to be resurrected, wake up, and climb back up out of the floor.

[840] Oh, my God.

[841] That was the promise, like the post apocalyptic promise that the grade 11 was making to everybody.

[842] I mean, that's, that's mental illness at that point.

[843] That's not religious.

[844] You know what I mean?

[845] It's brainwashing.

[846] Yeah.

[847] They are in a cult full out.

[848] They believe everything they've been told and they're living it to the wildest of results.

[849] Right.

[850] Well, there's also the like alternative of like, okay, but if they stop believing that, then they've done this to their daughter and they can't live with that.

[851] to keep believing it in order to not fall apart.

[852] Yes.

[853] The greater the loss and the greater the stakes, the more you have to double and triple down.

[854] Yeah.

[855] And what's crazy is despite all of those horrible events, the Great 11 manages to fly under the radar for years.

[856] But then in the late 1920s, Clifford Dabney, who was the one that donated the Seamy Valley property and a bunch of money, he finally is fed up.

[857] He has been waiting for May and Ruth to finish that book.

[858] Still no publication date insight.

[859] He's finally seeing through May's baseless promises.

[860] He's finally waking up.

[861] He's feeling cheated.

[862] He's sunk $50 ,000 into the Great 11, which is worth over $700 ,000 today.

[863] Wow.

[864] So he goes to the police and files a report accusing May of fraud.

[865] But the officers don't take him seriously right away.

[866] In their eyes, he willing gave his money to May and the cult.

[867] But then tips start rolling in from the public about either loved ones going missing or people dying under strange circumstances out on the Seamy Valley property.

[868] So the police started an investigation.

[869] And finally in 1929, May is arrested.

[870] Not for violent crime, though.

[871] Instead, the police probe leads to 15 counts of grand theft related to May's alleged scamming.

[872] Ruth is also arrested initially, but all charges against her are dropped when they realized that May is the ringleader.

[873] May pleads not guilty to all charges.

[874] When her trial begins in January of 1930, she puts on a hell of a show.

[875] While testifying, she collapses on the stand.

[876] When she comes to, she says she's exhausted by the angels constantly interfering with her life.

[877] And later, when asked if she's committed fraud, she firmly, says no before clarifying that if she did do anything illegal, it was merely at the command of the angels.

[878] That's not going to fly in court, I hope.

[879] No, I don't think so.

[880] May's trial includes testimony about the multiple deaths and disappearances that are linked to the cult, including the fact that police recovered the body of Willa Rhodes from under her parents' floorboards.

[881] And by that point, Willa had been dead for four years.

[882] Oof.

[883] So May has found, guilty on eight charges of grand theft.

[884] She's held in Los Angeles County Jail and then sent to San Quentin.

[885] But shortly into her prison stint, her lawyers appeal, her conviction, arguing that May's trial was about grand theft and the prosecution's decision to include testimony about Willa Rhodes and Samuel Rizio and Francis Turner almost certainly prejudiced the jury.

[886] In 1930, the California Supreme Court weighs in on May's verdict.

[887] agrees with her defense attorneys.

[888] The justice's decision also concludes that there's no real indication of fraud in this case because the great 11th cult members willingly handed over donations to May and her religious organization.

[889] And with that, May is exonerated and released into the public.

[890] I don't buy that.

[891] I mean, I wonder if they have things in place now where if you can prove that level of brainwashing, essentially.

[892] Right, right.

[893] It's like just because you believe.

[894] that she was talking to Gabriel and then so gave her all your money because of that, that is fraud because she's not talking to him.

[895] But if they can't prove that, like, you know, definitively, then it's not fraud.

[896] It's a gray area because they did get into it voluntarily.

[897] I think that's why I love talking about cults because it's the kind of thing that can happen to anyone.

[898] It doesn't, just because, like, May targeted women and targeted people who were poor, it could happen to a rich person.

[899] It could happen to someone who went to MIT.

[900] It has happened to all of those types of people.

[901] It just depends on what like the big hole inside of you is and what you're searching for and how opportunists can basically turn around and be like, oh, you know that thing you're searching for?

[902] I got you.

[903] Here it is.

[904] Right here.

[905] And like, what's yours?

[906] Mine's cats.

[907] I'd fall for a cat thing.

[908] You'd be in a cat cult so quickly.

[909] I already am.

[910] I have three of them living in my home.

[911] You started it.

[912] You started one.

[913] I like the way you're saying.

[914] They're in my home.

[915] They've infiltrated my home.

[916] They're everywhere in here.

[917] You're going to have to get rats to get rid of the cats.

[918] Oh, I love rats.

[919] They're cute.

[920] They're so sweet.

[921] Okay.

[922] So after this, as you would be able to guess, the divine order of the royal arms of the Great 11 loses a lot of steam.

[923] The coverage is very sensationalized from May's trial.

[924] It's nationwide, making it.

[925] very hard to find new recruits, but a core group of followers does stay in it for several years after.

[926] And the cult eventually relocates to Lake Tahoe.

[927] Oh, it's lovely this time of year.

[928] It's gorgeous, although the lake is very cold.

[929] There's a series that I love on TikTok.

[930] It's an account by a person, it's just at GEO, GEO, and they have a blue check.

[931] This person talks about lakes all the time.

[932] And the bio on her account is, um, yes, hello, which is how they start every single TikTok.

[933] Oh, I love it.

[934] Which makes me like, um, yes, hello.

[935] And it says Lake Baikal Stan account, which is that super weird lake in Russia that has a bunch of mysterious things about it.

[936] No one can explain.

[937] What?

[938] Yeah, you have to go on there.

[939] No, you have to cover it sometimes.

[940] Yeah, maybe.

[941] Every October, they do spooky lake month.

[942] And so every, day in October, they feature a different spooky lake.

[943] On day one, October 1st, they covered Lake Tahoe.

[944] And there's all kinds of shit.

[945] I was like, what?

[946] What?

[947] Do you know there's - Lake Tahoe?

[948] I thought that was just for bros and shit.

[949] No, no. They think there's at least 200 bodies at the bottom of Lake Tahoe.

[950] Yeah, I could see that.

[951] Because the mafia used to dump bodies.

[952] I hate them off.

[953] Yeah.

[954] Oh, my God.

[955] Okay.

[956] May remains at the helm of the Great Eleven with Ruth by her side over the next several years, as you might imagine, even in Lake Tahoe, the group fizzles out.

[957] No one affiliated with the Great Eleven, including May and Ruth, is ever charged with any crime related to any of the deaths or disappearances linked to the cult.

[958] As Samuel Fort explains, quote, by circumstance or design, all the cult deaths had occurred a year or more before the start of the police investigation.

[959] There was talk of exhuming the bodies to look for signs of foul play, but that didn't happen.

[960] And because of the limited forensic tools available at the time, the state had dim hopes of finding anything actionable, end quote.

[961] So both May and Ruth fall out of the public eye in the years after the trial.

[962] We know that in the mid -1930s, May self -publishes a book called The Origin of God.

[963] Oh.

[964] Right?

[965] She's still on it, which made me think of the lady from Starvation Heights.

[966] Remember the Starvation Heights story that I told you.

[967] you where even after she got caught, no debt, all the stuff, she still kept putting stuff out, like, couldn't not do it.

[968] She's getting high on her own supply, essentially.

[969] Yeah, for real.

[970] But it's like, I get one, like, red notice in the mail and I freak out forever.

[971] It's like, there's some people who, like, go to trial, go to jail, get out.

[972] And they're like, what can I do that's very similar than what got me there in the first place?

[973] Right.

[974] Like, they don't give a shit.

[975] I'm going with it.

[976] I got to keep going.

[977] The book that they claimed was being dictated by Angel Gabriel never gets published.

[978] I don't think I have to tell you that because it was all blank inside because it probably was never happening.

[979] Ruth, meanwhile, the daughter, goes on to continue writing religious books and pamphlets.

[980] And in 1951, her mother May quietly passes away at the age of 69.

[981] Ruth herself dies in 1978 when she's about 80 years old.

[982] It's kind of, what's that phrase?

[983] End of an era?

[984] No. I mean, yes for sure.

[985] I was looking for the thing where it's like a disappointing ending because it's like, wait, after all that.

[986] Yeah.

[987] So what I'm looking for.

[988] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[989] I know what you're talking about.

[990] It's a, um, be, wow.

[991] And I goes, what's it called?

[992] Right?

[993] That's the noise.

[994] Yep.

[995] It's definitely the noise of the word for sure.

[996] It's a downer.

[997] It's, yeah, it's sad trombone.

[998] It's want -won.

[999] There's a word for it.

[1000] Yeah, there is.

[1001] Anticlimactic.

[1002] Thank you.

[1003] All I could think of was post -apocalyptic.

[1004] That's what it was supposed to be.

[1005] That's what it was supposed to be.

[1006] And instead, it was anticlimactic.

[1007] But even still, we're at the end.

[1008] That is the story of May Otis Blackburn, her daughter, Ruth Wyland Rizio, and their cult.

[1009] the divine order of the royal arms of the Great Eleven.

[1010] And if you have a chance, because there's many, many more details and insanity and craziness, you have to read Samuel Ford's the cult of the Great Eleven, because that's, this is a synopsis of that, to go read that.

[1011] That was a way bigger story than I thought it would be.

[1012] You know what I mean?

[1013] Like, I kind of thought it would just be like a couple years.

[1014] Same years.

[1015] A couple years of like, you know, some Tompullery.

[1016] But like, that was, like, how will we not heard of them?

[1017] This is like on the same level as, well, not it's so much, but like, you know, that's a big story that I'd never heard of.

[1018] It's been suggested.

[1019] And also, as I was reading Marin's research, I was like, oh, I was on the dollup once with Dave and Gareth, and they covered this story.

[1020] Oh, wow.

[1021] But at the time, it was to not know the story at all, and then to have Dave just telling us the story.

[1022] And of course, Gareth and I would not stop riffing the entire time.

[1023] So I didn't even kind of get what was happening most of the time.

[1024] And then when I read this, I'm like, wait a second.

[1025] This sounds familiar.

[1026] It's first season of Perry Mason, there's a female -run religious cult in Los Angeles in it.

[1027] Is that based on that or it just happens to be similar?

[1028] This is just guesswork.

[1029] I think it's partially based on this and partially based on the sister Amy, the church of the square in the circle or whatever it's called.

[1030] But there was a ton them.

[1031] Yeah.

[1032] I mean, everywhere you looked.

[1033] Yeah, I guess when you're a transplant too to like a new city, a new growing city, you're like looking for a home kind of.

[1034] So it's probably pretty easy to like get sucked in to.

[1035] If you got here and you auditioned for say six months and then you started getting parts, you have a career so you have something to do.

[1036] If you got here and after two years people are like, thanks but no thanks.

[1037] What do you do then?

[1038] You get a regular job and you kind of are like, oh, I get to watch everybody else do their dream and not do my dream.

[1039] So, like, it's the perfect city for this kind of stuff.

[1040] To have faith, right?

[1041] Yep.

[1042] And to be like, I need to be maximizing my potential.

[1043] I need to be, how do I do it so that I can get ahead of the 100 million other people that are trying to do exactly what I'm doing.

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] Oh, way.

[1046] It's rough.

[1047] Oh, Los Angeles.

[1048] You special bitch.

[1049] You crazy lady.

[1050] That was freaking awesome and excellent.

[1051] and way to go.

[1052] That was like such a great Karen caper.

[1053] That was actually perfectly a story for me. Yeah.

[1054] It really was.

[1055] Well, then let's save mine for next week because I feel like that was like a perfect episode.

[1056] I mean, yeah, let's not keep going after an hour and a half.

[1057] You don't want to do three hour podcasts anymore?

[1058] To be monetizing a two and a half hour podcast.

[1059] There's a business element to this also.

[1060] That's not great.

[1061] yeah yeah which we've been learning as we go and we're still seven oh my god almost eight years now that's right coming up on eight years we're still we still kind of don't know what we're doing well what's great about us is we're not interested in knowing what we're doing and you know not everyone loves that but some people do and that's what we're here for baby we never claim to be no doers of knowing you know what I mean Not once.

[1062] Never doers of knowing.

[1063] Not never doers of knowing.

[1064] That's another good band name.

[1065] Well, thank you guys for listening.

[1066] We'll see you next week.

[1067] Yeah, part two, cliffhanger.

[1068] Part two.

[1069] Will we know what we're doing next week?

[1070] Who knows?

[1071] That's right.

[1072] Next week we're going to both wear ties and blazers.

[1073] Ooh, I'm going to wear a pocket square.

[1074] Yes.

[1075] I'm going to wear a short skirt and a long blazer.

[1076] Okay, that's my last musical quote.

[1077] 90s musical quote.

[1078] And stay sexy.

[1079] Oh, and don't.

[1080] Stay sexy.

[1081] Stay sexy.

[1082] And don't get murdered.

[1083] Goodbye.

[1084] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1085] This has been an exactly right production.

[1086] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1087] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[1088] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1089] This episode was mixed by Lian.

[1090] Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

[1091] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1092] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.

[1093] Goodbye.

[1094] Follow My Favorite Murder on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen so you don't miss an episode.

[1095] If you like what you hear, rate and review the show.

[1096] Visit exactly right store .com to purchase My Favorite Murder merch.