438 - True Crime Sommelier

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hardstar.

[3] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[4] What a weekend.

[5] Oh, the relief.

[6] Oh, my God.

[7] You're already there.

[8] It's Monday.

[9] We're recording this on a Monday.

[10] I'm not at relief yet.

[11] Maybe by the time this comes out on Thursday, I'll be there.

[12] Yeah.

[13] I mean, look, it all takes, we have to go at our own pace.

[14] But the vibe.

[15] Yes, the vibe is great.

[16] The vibe is not an old white man. Anyway, well, what's going on with you, personally?

[17] Personally, the thing I was upset that I couldn't remember last week to bring up, it was we lost Shannon Doherty, who it's so sad.

[18] So sad.

[19] And that was really surprising news to me. Me too.

[20] It hit me harder than I thought it would.

[21] Yeah.

[22] For sure.

[23] But I mean, I grew up watching her and being obsessed with her.

[24] We all were.

[25] Yes.

[26] And she's so young.

[27] Well, that's just, that was hard enough.

[28] And in the same day, Richard Simmons died.

[29] I know.

[30] Which then watching those clips, because Richard Simmons was, like, in the 80s, a late -night staple.

[31] Yeah.

[32] Oh, yeah.

[33] And so hilarious.

[34] He, like, made the week if he was on with Letterman.

[35] Totally.

[36] So funny.

[37] Did I ever tell you my Richard Simmons story?

[38] No. I don't want to brag.

[39] I want you to brag about Richard Simmons.

[40] But this is the best brag of all times.

[41] So I used to work at a talk show, and so you'd walk around backstage and try to do your job.

[42] the guests would be there, in and out of their dressing rooms, whatever.

[43] And the rules you had to act like, yes, of course, hello, you're here.

[44] Can I get you anything?

[45] And you don't linger.

[46] No matter how famous they are, just like act normal.

[47] You just want to bug them.

[48] You don't want to make it even harder for them to do.

[49] It's, you know.

[50] Yeah.

[51] So I came around this corner, and I knew he was there, and I was excited he was there, but I was pretty sure I wouldn't get to see him.

[52] Yeah.

[53] And I came around a corner and sort of walking down the hall, and he came around the other corner on the other end of the hall, started walking toward me. Yeah.

[54] And this was at the height of my, like, I worked 16 -hour days, incredibly miserable, sallow skin, you know, by 4 o 'clock, no more makeup on, just, like, eaten M &Ms by the handful, trying to get through every day.

[55] He comes around the corner and does his thing where he goes up on his tiptoes and puts his hands on his cheeks like this and goes, it's snow white.

[56] Oh, my God.

[57] And I, it was everything I could do not to break into full sobs.

[58] What an angel.

[59] What a thing to say to someone who needs it so bad.

[60] And you do look like Snow White.

[61] You got the black hair and the pale skin.

[62] Oh, my God, that's like, who never thought of that?

[63] I mean.

[64] I've known you eight and a half years and I've never thought of that.

[65] And he walks her in a corner and fucking sees it.

[66] He sees it, yes.

[67] It was very generous.

[68] Yeah.

[69] It was very generous, but it was also like, that's, that was the vibe.

[70] Yeah.

[71] He was going to tell you exactly how great he thought you were.

[72] I love it.

[73] For I didn't, I was background people.

[74] Yeah.

[75] There was no need for it.

[76] Sure.

[77] Sad that two icons got lost in a day and then.

[78] Yeah.

[79] And then there was an assassination attempt and it all got erased.

[80] Crazy.

[81] So crazy.

[82] Yeah.

[83] I have a book.

[84] I have a self -help book.

[85] You had another one.

[86] Let's hear it.

[87] It's called Atomic Habits by James Clear.

[88] And it's just about how to create.

[89] and stick to habits easily.

[90] You're not lazy.

[91] You just haven't formulated the right habit of the thing you want to do that works for your brain.

[92] And so here's how.

[93] And I've been falling asleep to it, which is really, I feel like that's helpful.

[94] My brain absorbs it because I'm falling asleep.

[95] That's not true.

[96] And it's really good.

[97] Yeah.

[98] That one's been out for a little while, right?

[99] Yeah, yeah.

[100] Yeah.

[101] Yeah.

[102] The doctor told me to do it.

[103] To get in there.

[104] Yeah.

[105] Sometimes you just need a little basic advice.

[106] Yeah.

[107] Oh, speaking of, there's a TikTok.

[108] a woman, a creator named Jessica Craven, and she popped up talking about where everybody's getting a lot of texts now of like, are you excited about Kamala, donate here?

[109] Yeah.

[110] And like that's very random, and you definitely know where you're donating.

[111] And then she goes on to, she's an activist and an organizer herself, goes on to give like 10 recommendations for some of the best strategic places to give donations.

[112] Cool.

[113] So I think we'll figure it out a way to, we'll definitely retweet it.

[114] on the exactly right TikTok, but then we'll try to put it other places, too, because it's just a great long list of, like, how to approach it.

[115] Yeah, and how not to get scammed.

[116] All right.

[117] Should we go into some highlights?

[118] Sure.

[119] We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media.

[120] Here are some highlights.

[121] Well, top of the list is, of course, that Georgia and I are doing this series Rewind with Karen in Georgia, where we relisten to old episodes.

[122] We talk about the things that have changed since 2016, and we provide case updates for the murders that we had, that we went over then.

[123] Episode three originally aired on January 31st, 2016.

[124] And so the episode where we cover episode three is now available wherever you get your podcast.

[125] I think some people didn't know that we're talking in it.

[126] It's not just, we're not just reposting the episodes.

[127] I don't know how much more specifically to explain to people exactly what goes on in things.

[128] You got to listen.

[129] We've said it every single time.

[130] And on wicked words, Kate Winkler -Dawson talks to journalists, podcaster, and friend of exactly right.

[131] Mandy Matney, who you remember daringly reported on the Murdoch murders.

[132] Over at this podcast, they're back this week with another important episode on Ciliac disease.

[133] So go listen to Aaron and Aaron.

[134] They are science explainers who do all of their research so you don't have to.

[135] And then Danielle and Millie, host of I Saw What You Did, our hilarious film podcast, go deep this week into maybe two of the greats ever.

[136] Headwig and the Angry Inch from 2001 and Beyond the Valley of the Dolls from 1970.

[137] Plus, you asked for new merch, so we delivered, just for you, my favorite murder of Crow's T -shirts are now available in the MFF store.

[138] So go to exactly right store .com and get one now.

[139] There's charcoal gray unisex style available in an expanded size range.

[140] And then there's a women slouchy tea in white that you can get.

[141] Crow merch.

[142] We finally did it.

[143] And some exciting news for listeners who like to shop.

[144] The promo codes for all of our advertisers, for all the ads that we do, and we quickly say the promo when you're driving and you can't write it down.

[145] They're now available on our website so you never miss them.

[146] The website is my favorite murder .com slash promos.

[147] Get your percentage off.

[148] You deserve it.

[149] This podcast is brought to you in part by Squarespace.

[150] Karen, what if I give up podcasting to follow my dream of becoming mother to all crows?

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[166] Goodbye.

[167] Georgia, it's summer and that means we might have to invite people into our homes.

[168] Oh my God.

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[184] Goodbye.

[185] I'm first, right?

[186] Yeah.

[187] Okay, so it's two in the morning on Thursday, May 31st, 1990.

[188] We're in Queens, New York, in the early 90s.

[189] Okay.

[190] Look at it.

[191] This is the year New York City's homicide rate peaked with 2 ,605 killings.

[192] 1990?

[193] Uh -huh.

[194] And for context, in 2023, New York had 386 homicides.

[195] Compared to 2 ,000?

[196] 2 ,600.

[197] Oh, my God.

[198] And it hasn't had more than 500 since 2011.

[199] So that is a big old number.

[200] That's important to know.

[201] Right.

[202] The early 70s through the early 90s are what people called the bad old days.

[203] And while there's currently a lot of fearmongering about crime in New York going back to those levels, it's nowhere close right now.

[204] So in the wee hours of Queens in 1990, when an elderly man is shot in the back, a special police unit devoted to violent robberies against the elderly is dispatched to the scene.

[205] The 79 -year -old man named Joseph Prochi is alive when the first responders arrive and he's rushed to the hospital.

[206] Joe is a World War II veteran and a retired ice truck driver, and the assumption is that this was an attempt in mugging.

[207] That is, until Detective Michael Sirovolo from the senior citizens robbery unit, like they had to have a whole unit on senior citizens robbery.

[208] He examines the crime scene a little more closely.

[209] There are no fingerprints, but police do recover a lead bullet, and the sides of the bullet are smooth without the grooves that a barrel of a traditional gun would make.

[210] And this tells police that the weapon was a homemade zip gun.

[211] gun they're called, which is something that wouldn't be particularly accurate and would have to be fired at a very close range.

[212] A zip gun can be made from materials as simple as a length of pipe, a nail, and a rubber band.

[213] It's like an elaborate slingshot, but you have to be close up.

[214] Wow.

[215] Yeah.

[216] On Joe's front steps, there's a piece of paper held down by three rocks.

[217] And at the top of the paper, the first paper, there is a circle with three wedges drawn in the lower left corner, They're almost like a pie chart with three little areas.

[218] In each area, in each little slice, there's a symbol.

[219] They're crudely drawn astrological signs, Scorpio, Gemini, and Taurus.

[220] Stand for them.

[221] Right?

[222] Gemini.

[223] That's me. That's me. Oh, my God.

[224] Get ready.

[225] At the bottom of the piece of paper is a familiar image, a circle with crosshairs drawn through it.

[226] Oh, I know what that's from.

[227] Yep.

[228] In between the two pictures, the two drawings, is the sentence, this is the zodiac.

[229] The 12th sign will die when the belts in the heaven are seen.

[230] I don't know.

[231] It doesn't make any fun.

[232] This is the story of the New York Zodiac.

[233] What?

[234] Yeah.

[235] I've never heard of this.

[236] I know.

[237] So the main sources are an episode of the Netflix show Catching Killers and reporting from the New York Times.

[238] The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.

[239] So Detective C. Revello sends a copy of the note to California to be compared with the notes from the known Zodiac Killer.

[240] The Zodiac Killer hadn't been active as far as anyone knows in about 20 years.

[241] So this is a surprise to everyone.

[242] And from the hospital where he's fighting for his life, Joe Prochi tells the police that the man who had shot him had asked for a glass of water and possibly money.

[243] Joe had tried to brush him off and walk into his apartment when the man shot him from behind.

[244] But he can't tell them anything about what the guy looked like.

[245] The police basically move on.

[246] You know, it's the precinct is Queens and Brooklyn border.

[247] Obviously, it's overwhelmed with new homicide cases.

[248] that keep coming in, so they don't linger on this case.

[249] Yeah.

[250] Then almost three weeks after this shooting, another note materializes.

[251] This one had been sent to the New York Post, and a similar one is sent to 60 minutes.

[252] The notes are a lot like that first one and have the same picture with the three zodiac signs.

[253] And this letter also includes a list of victims.

[254] Like the first one, it contains some spelling and grammatical errors.

[255] And it kind of just explains and gives dates and times of when he, when the New York Zodiac attacked other people.

[256] It turns out that all three of the shootings in the note correspond with real shootings.

[257] Yeah, he had already done them.

[258] So there was two that happened in March.

[259] They had not been on the police's radar as being connected at all.

[260] But in each shooting, the victim had actually survived.

[261] And each shooting had taken place in pretty much the same area of Brooklyn in a neighborhood called East New York, with Joe's shooting being just over the border in Queens.

[262] So all in the same area, and now they're all connected.

[263] Every time the men who were shot, had been vulnerable in some way.

[264] The first shooting victim on March 8th was a 50 -year -old man who used a cane named Mario Orozco.

[265] Mario had been walking at night and was shot in the back as well.

[266] He had told police that the shooter had worn a mask, and the shooter then held a gun to his head after he fell, but he didn't pull the trigger.

[267] The second victim on March 29th had been a 34 -year -old man named Germain Montenestro.

[268] Germain had been out with friends that night.

[269] He had been drinking.

[270] He was walking back to his father's house in the same area of Brooklyn and couldn't really give a description of the shooter.

[271] So it just seems like the shooter had been prowling around for people who seem vulnerable until the police make one additional discovery.

[272] Each victim's birthday coincides with the astrological signs that were drawn on the note.

[273] Oh.

[274] Whoa.

[275] So, yeah.

[276] What?

[277] Yeah.

[278] Isn't that creepy?

[279] That is.

[280] So it's not random.

[281] and it's not like just somebody wandering around.

[282] In case, unless it's a huge coincidence.

[283] But he's saying it's, you know, not.

[284] Right.

[285] Mario is a Scorpio, Jermaine is a Gemini, and Joe is a Taurus.

[286] And it seems to fleece that this shooter's plan is to try and kill one person from each of the 12 signs of the Zodiac.

[287] But they have no idea how the shooter would have known his victims.

[288] None of them were called a stranger ever asking for their birthday.

[289] And all of them were conscious when the shooter fled.

[290] so he didn't take out their wallet and look at their birthday, I mean, which would have been a crazy coincidence still.

[291] Right.

[292] Right after the police make these realizations, authorities from San Francisco get in contact and they analyze the letters and they are not from the original Zodiac Killer, obviously, or, I mean, that would have been huge.

[293] Yeah, we would have known about that for sure.

[294] Exactly.

[295] Each of the three shootings is 21 days apart.

[296] The New York PD brings in an astronomer and an astrologer to analyze the patterns between the shootings.

[297] They did.

[298] The astronomer notes that each of the three shootings took place on days and times when three specific constellations were visible in the night sky.

[299] Orion, Seven Sisters, and Taurus, your favorites.

[300] The astronomer says that the next time the stars will all be visible will be the very early hours of June 21st, which is only a few days away from that point.

[301] So there's a fucking pattern with astrology.

[302] That can basically anticipate what's going to happen next.

[303] That's like straight out of a 90s movie.

[304] Yeah.

[305] It's very, what was the movie?

[306] Seven?

[307] No, wait.

[308] What's the one with what's in the box?

[309] That is seven.

[310] Seven.

[311] Yeah.

[312] Got those vibes.

[313] The police have been begging the press, particularly the New York Post, not to run any big stories on the case and the theory of the zodiac links between the shootings.

[314] They don't care.

[315] They run a huge story and publish all the notes and all the details.

[316] So people start to freak out, obviously.

[317] The police chief gets on TV and tells New Yorkers to just be cautious if anyone approaches them.

[318] and ask them for their birthday.

[319] And then also on that specific night, when it's predicted, he'll strike again.

[320] Yeah.

[321] So on that evening, on June 20th, into the morning of June 21st, police flood into East New York, hoping to catch the shooter.

[322] And the story here could be its own story.

[323] It's a lot about the discriminatory stop -and -frisk policing that becomes a huge part of New York City for the next 30 years or so.

[324] Yeah.

[325] That happens a lot that night.

[326] And they kind of just stop anyone who looks suspicious, you know, which of course ends up being a lot of people of color.

[327] Yeah.

[328] So the sun rises on East New York and a lot of men have been stopped and frisked, but the shooter hasn't been found and no one has been shot in a way that matches the New York Zodiac's ammo.

[329] It's like, people have been fucking shot.

[330] They've been shot.

[331] That's for sure.

[332] Absolutely.

[333] That is until later that morning when Detective C. Revello gets a call from a detective in Manhattan who tells him that somebody in Central Park had been shot.

[334] The most recent victim is an unhoused man who had been sleeping on a bench in Central Park named Larry Parram.

[335] He had been shot in the torso, and there is another note at the crime scene, much like the others, but this one has extra lines, insisting that he is, in fact, the San Francisco Zodiac.

[336] He's like, no, no, no, I swear I am.

[337] Oh, he's communicating now directly with, like, the media.

[338] Yeah, and the cops.

[339] Going like, you're wrong.

[340] Yeah.

[341] You have the theory wrong.

[342] Right.

[343] So then there's another slice of that.

[344] you know, pie chart, and in it is a cancer symbol.

[345] And it turns out Larry, the unhoused man who had been shot on the 21st, just like they predicted, just in a different area, because he probably knew they were going to be there, was a cancer.

[346] How?

[347] I don't know.

[348] He survives the shooting.

[349] Can't tell the police anything.

[350] He had been asleep.

[351] He does, however, remember a stranger asking him his birthday in the days or weeks leading up to being shot.

[352] Ooh.

[353] Yeah.

[354] Which, like, I don't know.

[355] Would you notice that?

[356] Yes.

[357] If someone asked you your birthday?

[358] For sure.

[359] Hey, when's your birthday?

[360] Like a random person on the street.

[361] Because truly, if you move to a city, this is a thing.

[362] It's just being from a farm down, just anyone says anything to you.

[363] Who needs to know is the first thing back?

[364] What do you need my birthday for?

[365] Absolutely.

[366] But this is also the thing of like you're in a big city.

[367] There's all kinds of personalities going on and you're interacting with the city.

[368] And some guy on the street's like, hey, when's your birthday?

[369] I can tell you, like, about, you know what I mean?

[370] But then you'd remember that, though.

[371] Yes, almost like they've gotten smart enough so that they're doing it in a way that's hidden in something that's normalized.

[372] Yes.

[373] But what would be normalized of people guessing your birthday or asking your birthday besides, like, a nurse or something?

[374] Like, pick a card, any card.

[375] Okay, what's your birthday?

[376] Okay, put it back in the deck and then they run away.

[377] But you'd remember that probably.

[378] I don't know.

[379] Well, this guy did.

[380] Yeah.

[381] But it's still not a lot to go on, even though he does remember this person.

[382] and he doesn't remember any details about him.

[383] Right after Larry is shot, Joe Prochi, the elderly man who had been shot in the back in the beginning of our story, dies in the hospital succumbing to his internal injuries.

[384] So in one of the recent shootings, the letter that appeared has some additional drawings in it.

[385] Occult stuff, some sketches, 666 is written on them.

[386] It's kind of hard to see what the shooter is getting out with all these additional occult references.

[387] But one of the letters does bring a break, a partial fingerprint.

[388] And there had been no prints on any of the previous letters or scenes.

[389] So New Yorkers, obviously, are freaked out.

[390] It's only 13 years after David Berkowitz was arrested for the son of Sam murders.

[391] So it kind of has that emmo as well, which freaks everyone out.

[392] Yeah, just the wandering shooter, the wandering night shooter.

[393] With maybe, like, who's maybe got some premonition about birthdays, too?

[394] Yeah.

[395] Which makes it seem supernatural and even more scary.

[396] Right.

[397] That there's some kind of theory behind it that, you know, We couldn't understand.

[398] Right.

[399] But, you know.

[400] Yeah, a smart criminal.

[401] You don't, that's scary.

[402] An astrological criminal.

[403] Such a Virgo.

[404] So at the end of the next 21 -day cycle in July, people hold their breath.

[405] Police again ramp up their presence across the city and because now they know that they could strike anywhere.

[406] But no shooting comes.

[407] It doesn't come the next month either.

[408] And the shooter just disappears.

[409] Police officers know he hasn't been arrested for another crime.

[410] because they have a print on file now.

[411] They would have found him.

[412] So both of the main detectives on the case, Mike Cirovallo and Larry Milanese, retire feeling like they let the shooter get away.

[413] They wonder, you know, did he die?

[414] Where did he go?

[415] And then in August of 1994, so we're being fast -forwarded like four years or so, the New York Post gets another letter and sends it to the police.

[416] So the detectives originally on the case have retired.

[417] the new lead detective in the East New York precinct is named Joe Herbert.

[418] The new letter takes credit for five additional attacks that had already happened starting in August of 1992, so two years after their original spree, none of the people in the letter I mentioned by name, but just by physical details and time and place they were killed and a brief description of the crime.

[419] So the detection have to go back and identify those exact crimes and do they match the ammo?

[420] The attacks don't follow the 21 -day schedule.

[421] The previous ones had, they're kind of random now.

[422] The letter does not include any mention of the victim's signs, although among them, there will only be one repeat.

[423] Sign?

[424] Uh -huh.

[425] Oh.

[426] A second tourist in addition to Joe Procheat.

[427] Karen just fistpumped because she's a tourist.

[428] It is a silent fist pump for some reason.

[429] That's, yeah.

[430] So the first attack on the list is from August of 1992.

[431] It's the most brutal one, and it's immediately recognizable to police as one of their unsolved murders.

[432] A 39 -year -old woman named Patricia Fonte had been killed while walking late in night in Highland Park, which is near that same part of the Brooklyn Queen's border, where the first shootings happened.

[433] Patricia had been stabbed more than a hundred times.

[434] Oh, my God.

[435] I know.

[436] And at the time her murder was investigated, no one found a gunshot wound, and no one found a bullet.

[437] But in this letter, they're saying, I shot and stabbed this woman.

[438] I mean, a hundred times.

[439] I know.

[440] I know.

[441] And Patricia had been a Leo.

[442] Her neighbors remember her as a lovely person.

[443] And at this point, the NYPD is overwhelmed with somewhere around five homicides every day.

[444] So Patricia's murder had tragically just been added to a growing pile of open investigations.

[445] Yeah.

[446] In addition to Patricia's murder, the letter takes credit for four other shootings all a year later in 1993 and all in or near the same area, Highland Park.

[447] In June of 93, a 40 -year -old man named Jim Weber, a little.

[448] Libra was shot in the leg while he was walking.

[449] He survived.

[450] In July of that year, a 47 -year -old man named Joseph Diacon was shot in the neck at point -blank range on a pedestrian walkway, and he died.

[451] He was a Virgo.

[452] So they're all different, except for the...

[453] It's just like...

[454] Then in October of 93, a 40 -year -old woman named Diane Ballard was shot in the neck.

[455] She survived, but was paralyzed, and Diane is the only repeat that she was a torus as well.

[456] So the letter references a fifth victim also shot in Highland Park in June of 94, all the other victims had been easily matched to the police reports.

[457] But this one doesn't match anything the police have on file.

[458] They search Highland Park extensively with, like, dogs and helicopters, and they never find any trace of this last unknown victim, which is so eerie.

[459] So at the time, there's no computer database to match fingerprints, so investigators go through manually comparing prints to the print from the letter, recover in Central Park.

[460] Can you imagine?

[461] It's just wild to think about that, that anyone get anything done at all.

[462] Totally.

[463] Horrifying.

[464] Totally.

[465] They don't find anything.

[466] The case is tabled yet again.

[467] And Detective Joe Herbert, who is now the lead on the case, he moves on in his career, and he becomes a hostage negotiator.

[468] Oh, wow.

[469] And because of this one decision, this isn't a cold case.

[470] Wow.

[471] And it's wild.

[472] Okay.

[473] So a year later, after that letter, in the summer of 95, it's time for Joe.

[474] Herbert to do his very first hostage negotiation.

[475] He had been trained.

[476] This was his first on the job actual thing.

[477] What a day.

[478] I know.

[479] It's scary, right?

[480] That's big, yeah.

[481] Yeah.

[482] And it's the summer and it's like in New York and everyone's, you know, everyone's in a bad man. Yeah.

[483] It's humid.

[484] Yeah.

[485] A 20 -year -old man named Ribeato Seda has shot his 17 -year -old sister Gladys and is holding her boyfriend hostage in an apartment in East New York.

[486] Hundreds of police officers swarmed the area, and after basically several hours of back and forth, exchanging some gunfire, Joe urging Seda to come out of the apartment and let a sister get medical attention, Iriberto finally surrenders and comes out.

[487] So Joe, of course, is thrilled.

[488] His first hostage negotiation was a success.

[489] No one has gotten additionally hurt.

[490] The sister's taken to the hospital for surgery.

[491] She's expected to survive.

[492] The bomb squad goes into the apartment, removes two pipe bombs.

[493] and Seda writes out a confession saying he shot his sister and held her boyfriend hostage.

[494] End of story, right?

[495] Except when Joe takes a look at the confession, his blood pressure drops.

[496] At the bottom, there's a little cross.

[497] There's no circle around it, but it does look like crosshairs.

[498] Then he reads the confession again, and it's written in handwriting that he's looked at a thousand times before.

[499] No way.

[500] He shows it to one of his colleagues who had also worked on the New York Zodians.

[501] act shootings since the beginning, and that colleague says, quote, it looked like my wife's shopping list.

[502] That's how familiar that lettering was, end quote.

[503] Wow.

[504] They just looked at the paper and knew it was his handwriting.

[505] Yeah.

[506] That's good detective work.

[507] Well, also, it's a predator who is trying to, like, brand himself with that writing.

[508] So why would you ever, like, why wouldn't you, as that then uncought serial killer, just use some cursive?

[509] Well, because he wouldn't think that this random people would connect him, why would they, it's like such a different, I mean, yeah, it's a shooting, but it's like a different crime altogether.

[510] Why not type?

[511] I'm just saying.

[512] Yes.

[513] He could have made an effort.

[514] He deserves everything he's getting.

[515] Yes.

[516] Maybe he wanted to get caught.

[517] Who knew?

[518] Maybe he did.

[519] You know?

[520] Seda's fingerprint is quickly determined to be a match to the fingerprint from the Central Park letter.

[521] But under questioning, he denies being the Zodiac killer.

[522] And it's only when detectives show him pictures from Patricia Fonty's murder, the woman who had been stabbed that he finally confesses to her murder and then he confesses to all the other shootings in order and authorities find at least 13 homemade guns in his apartment.

[523] Oh my god.

[524] Also the two pipe bombs that were just thrown in there like did they know that was in there?

[525] I wonder if he like threatened people about it or something.

[526] But good God.

[527] Yeah.

[528] Okay.

[529] Over the course of the investigation, several other frustrating details emerged.

[530] For one thing, Seda had sent his very first taunting letter to the police way back in 1989 before he had shot anybody and the police had dismissed it as a hoax which I mean being so bogged down I bet they get shit like that all the time you gotta look into it but what would they have found nothing I mean there's a lot of that kind of stuff where it's just like and then they threw it into the pile and it's just like I wish they hadn't I wish it mattered yeah secondly he was known to police officers in his neighborhood not as a criminal but as a sort of vigilante he tipped them off about local drug dealers and he was known to recite Bible verses to them sometimes.

[531] But that's the thing where these killers sometimes want to involve themselves in the police department's actions or, you know, want to be part of it.

[532] He had been expelled from school and had tried to join the green berets but failed the entrance exam and moved back home with his mom in New York as an angry loner.

[533] He says he saw a documentary on PBS about the Zodiac killer and he said, quote, holy smokes, this guy terrorized a whole city and never got caught.

[534] I got nothing to live for, I don't got no job, I already got those skills, I could be famous, I could do that, end quote.

[535] And the weird thing about him asking for people's birthdays that I didn't want to say is that he's conventionally attractive.

[536] He's a young man. He looks clean cut.

[537] If he had come up to someone on the street, they wouldn't have equated him with a murderer, you know.

[538] Yeah, especially if he was being charming.

[539] Yeah.

[540] Yeah, good looking people get away with a lot.

[541] They fucking do.

[542] That's very true.

[543] Yeah.

[544] I mean, I told you that story.

[545] at the time I was like how much we talk about like lock your fucking door and everything on this podcast.

[546] I was walking the dogs one day and this guy walked up and he was like he, I think he said one thing about the dogs that was complimentary.

[547] And then I was like, I live up there.

[548] And I gave the whole game away and then walked away going, what is wrong with you?

[549] It's so easy.

[550] It's very like there's a lot of human psychology involved in that.

[551] I mean, still.

[552] Yeah.

[553] He could have also said, what sign are you?

[554] Which was like parliance of the day.

[555] in the 70s.

[556] Yeah, it didn't have to be birthday.

[557] It didn't have to be exact, yeah.

[558] What's your sign?

[559] Yeah.

[560] Mm -hmm.

[561] I don't know.

[562] And then in March of 94, Seda had been arrested for possession of a homemade gun and was fingerprinted, like, two of the things that could have connected him.

[563] Yeah.

[564] But the charges were dismissed before the fingerprints had been filed.

[565] Why?

[566] I don't fucking know.

[567] Hmm.

[568] And that had been after all of the attacks except the last one, which is the unknown male victim in Highland Park that they never found.

[569] So, Seda's trial isn't until 1998, and over the course of the six -week trial, he acts erratically, yelling at the judge multiple times.

[570] The prosecution connects him to the crimes with DNA evidence from one of the stamps on one of the letters he sent.

[571] They also present evidence from the tools found in his home, linking them to the guns and bullets used in the shootings.

[572] Seda is convicted of three murders and six attempted murders and is currently serving multiple life sentences in the Clinton Correctional Officials.

[573] in Dan Amora in upstate New York.

[574] He has since said that he really doesn't know anything about astrology.

[575] Just a construct for the character of this killer.

[576] Yeah, exactly.

[577] No one has ever figured out if he asked all of the victims their birthdays at some point or if almost all of them having different signs with just a coincidence.

[578] I doubt it, right?

[579] Especially when he's calling himself the Zodiac killer.

[580] Right, right, right.

[581] That doesn't make any sense.

[582] Anyways, that's the story of the New York Zodiac who tragically killed three people, possibly one more and wounded six others.

[583] Wow.

[584] New York Zodiac.

[585] New York, well, I got to say, first of all, that was really good.

[586] And I do love when there's a serial killer that's just like brand new.

[587] Yeah.

[588] Especially one that's like a copycat like that.

[589] But it is actually kind of great that I've never heard of him because that's what he did it for.

[590] Exactly.

[591] That's what he wanted.

[592] That's why we know.

[593] Yeah, we know now.

[594] Don't shine the light on these fuckers.

[595] Right.

[596] All right.

[597] Great job.

[598] Thank you.

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[623] Goodbye.

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[644] Goodbye.

[645] You're going to like this because my story today is similar to D .B. Coopers, which you covered in episode 272.

[646] So if you haven't listened or if you haven't heard Georgia, tell the story of D .B. Cooper, please go back and do that.

[647] You don't have to.

[648] It's a recommendation like wine with dinner.

[649] It was at a live.

[650] show in Seattle.

[651] Okay, you're like a true crime sommelier.

[652] Really, I'll stand next to your table with white gloves on and hold shit up for you to read and pretend that you know the difference when I poured in a little glass.

[653] Yeah.

[654] Have you ever seen people send bottles of wine back?

[655] No, and every time someone does that to me, I want to be like, you don't have to, we don't have to do this.

[656] We're not like that.

[657] I will drink any wine.

[658] I don't know the difference.

[659] I don't care.

[660] Maybe one time when it was like clear from my own personal experience that the bottle had been sitting out for days and days and had corks and stuff in it.

[661] And I was like, can I just, can you just get a different?

[662] Can I get a new one?

[663] Yeah.

[664] And they're like, absolutely.

[665] Yeah.

[666] We just thought we'd be able to pass this off on somebody.

[667] Right, the one time.

[668] And I don't send shit back.

[669] I'm not that girl.

[670] I just would love to be there when it's like someone takes a goal.

[671] I was like, oh, no. This is not what it's supposed to say is like.

[672] Sometimes when I order wine at a bar, I'll say, what have you opened recently?

[673] Nice.

[674] Yeah, let's make this simple.

[675] I don't fucking care.

[676] Okay.

[677] I'll be like, um, this tastes like it's a little bit off.

[678] Can you pour some seven up in there or something?

[679] I'll be fine.

[680] Can you put some ice in this red wine?

[681] This is terrible.

[682] This is not good red wine.

[683] Can you put a little Jack Daniels in there?

[684] Oh, my God.

[685] Okay, so the story begins in Provo, Utah on April 9th, 1972.

[686] Okay.

[687] And this wording made me laugh so hard.

[688] That afternoon, a teenage boy, only known by the FBI alias Peter, Fanning is playing outside, which I think was just like, you could just see Marin putting that sentence together and being like, playing outside.

[689] A teenage boy is standing around with his arms cross, harumfing outside.

[690] Yeah.

[691] And he sees something over in the culvert.

[692] And then Marin wrote, note to Karen, I had to look up what a culvert was.

[693] Yeah, I could guess, but I don't think I'd be right.

[694] Give me a guess.

[695] Well, like, you know, like a one -way street, but it's like, what's the called one that's like a cul -de -sac?

[696] Yeah, I'm thinking cul -de -sac.

[697] No, a culvert is the thing that goes usually under a road, and it's a big silver tube that the water goes through.

[698] So it's basically making the water go over here and like under a road, kind of directing it.

[699] So it's like a creek bed.

[700] It's like a ditch with directed water, you know?

[701] And then the big steel tube part comes into play because that's where Peter was looking when he found this thing lying in the culvert.

[702] He pulls it out and he believes that he's just found a parachute.

[703] So he picks it up, takes it home.

[704] When he gets there, his dad is working on a car outside.

[705] So he brings it up to his dad and the dad inspects it.

[706] And yes, in fact, it is a parachute.

[707] So the fannings get this weird feeling about this discovery.

[708] So they call this sheriff.

[709] And soon after they turn the parachute over, detectives announced, Peter has just found a piece of evidence tied to a dangerous fugitive.

[710] The man had recently hijacked a commercial plane, demanded a ransom, and then parachuted out of the plane with that money.

[711] And if that all sounds familiar, it's the exact same M .O. that D .B. Cooper had in Georgia's story in episode 2 .72.

[712] And if you don't know the D .B. Cooper story, I'll just tell you super quick.

[713] It happened the year prior in 1971.

[714] The flight was out of Portland, Oregon.

[715] And once that flight was in the air, he hijacked the plane.

[716] He demanded a ransom.

[717] ransom of $200 ,000 and four parachutes.

[718] And then once he got the money, he jumped out of the plane, money in hand, and he parachuted his way into obscurity.

[719] And to this day, that hijacker has never been found, and the D .B. Cooper case remains unsolved.

[720] So that's where this story is different.

[721] This is the case of Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., and the hijacking of United Airlines Flight 855.

[722] Wow.

[723] How mad is he that he's not as famous as Deby Cooper?

[724] Well, and also, like he got caught.

[725] It's like there's no legend, there's no romance.

[726] The sources Marin used today on the story are various documents from the FBI, several articles that ran in the Daily Herald newspaper in the early 70s and archival editions of the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times and the rest of the sources are in our show notes.

[727] So it's around 5 p .m. on April 7, 172, and Flight 855 from Newark, New Jersey is on a layover in Denver and it's about to take off again to head for Los Angeles.

[728] This plane is a Boeing 727.

[729] There are six crew members and around 85 passengers on board.

[730] And one of these passengers is a white man wearing a pinstripe stute, leather golf gloves, and mirrored sunglasses.

[731] Okay.

[732] Once on board, the man immediately disappears into the bathroom, which, of course, stands out to the flight attendants.

[733] He also stands out because once all the passengers have boarded the plane, an airport worker rushes onto the plane with an envelope that someone left behind in the boarding area.

[734] In 1972, they love for people to leave stuff behind so they can run it back up to you and onto a plane.

[735] Right, right.

[736] So the flight attendants make an announcement, trying to reunite the letter with whoever left it behind.

[737] No one responds.

[738] They're all kind of sitting there until the guy in the pinstripe suit and the leather gloves in the bathroom, opens the bathroom door, grabs the left.

[739] letter and shuts the door again.

[740] So he had left it out there as like a ransom note or something.

[741] Well, he'd left it out there.

[742] On purpose.

[743] We're not sure if it's on purpose or not.

[744] So now the plane's about to take off.

[745] So a flight attendant has to go knock on the bathroom door to tell the man to come take a seat.

[746] He did.

[747] He does not.

[748] A passenger named Mickey Luckoff, one of the many people on board that day who witnessed this man in his weird behavior, would later tell the Daily Herald that the man, quote, locked himself in the men's room, and a stewardess had to unlock the door and get him out.

[749] Guy.

[750] So when the man comes out of the bathroom, he's clearly wearing a dark wig that, quote, came down in front to eyebrow level and combed back around over his ears.

[751] End quote.

[752] He also has a fake mustache and matching fake sideburns that go down to, quote, the middle of his face curving towards the mouth about one inch.

[753] So those big 70s.

[754] Yeah.

[755] So this guy isn't just immediately not as smooth as D .B. Cooper, like right off the bat.

[756] No, he, I think it's like, you know, the old -fashioned rule where it's like you get ready and then you take one thing off before you leave.

[757] He should have done that in that bathroom.

[758] Fleshed it.

[759] Flush it down in that blue liquid.

[760] So an interesting note is only a handful of passengers correctly observed that this man did a costume change in the bathroom.

[761] So when he came out and he had the weird wig and mustache and everything, a lot of people didn't notice because they thought it was a different guy that went into the bathroom.

[762] Because they weren't really paying attention.

[763] So less than 20 minutes into the flight at 5 .18 p .m., a passenger calls over a flight attendant in a panic.

[764] They report to the flight attendant seeing a man with fake hair and mustache and sideburns, fumbling around with a hand grenade.

[765] Okay, shit.

[766] Shit.

[767] So the flight attendant immediately tells the pilot what's happening.

[768] The pilot basically has to now figure out a safety strategy.

[769] But they remember there's an off -duty pilot who's on the flight.

[770] I believe they call it deadheading when they get to fly.

[771] So they tell him to go walk by and observe the man and see what, you know, get eyes on, see what's actually going on.

[772] As the off -duty pilot approaches the mustache man's seat at the very back of the plane, the man pulls out a pistol.

[773] He aims it squarely at the off -duty pilot and hands over that envelope that he'd left behind in the boarding area that is clearly labeled hijack instructions.

[774] Wait, it said that and the person ran onto the plane to make sure that he got it?

[775] Well, good catch.

[776] Aviation writer Sylvia Wrigley raises the valid question of whether or not that envelope would have been brought on board and handed off.

[777] She writes, quote, it's hard to believe that the envelope was so clearly labeled when the gate agent brought.

[778] it to him, it must have been the case that there was a smaller envelope in a big one.

[779] Although none of the reports mentioned this.

[780] No, we're going to go with envelope and sign an envelope just for...

[781] We're going with Sylvia's theory because what, yeah.

[782] Otherwise, there's no hope.

[783] Plans for attack.

[784] Why would you run that anywhere?

[785] Oh.

[786] No matter the detail, the mustache man now orders the off -duty pilot to bring this letter to the planes pilot.

[787] So the letters passed to a flight attendant who then, brings it into the cockpit, the crew stays calm and professional, so much so that many of the passengers have no idea what's going on.

[788] They don't know somebody just had gun pulled on them in their own flight.

[789] That's wow, because I'm always checking the like the flight attendant's faces for panic.

[790] Yes.

[791] So it's important.

[792] They must learn that don't panic.

[793] Absolutely.

[794] It was also 1972.

[795] So they could have been on any number of drugs that they ordered from the back of Rolling Stone magazine.

[796] So Jerry Hearn, who's the pilot, reads the letter, and he requests clearance to immediately land in Grand Junction, Colorado.

[797] And then his plan is, once they're on the ground, he'll call for police assistance.

[798] So to keep everyone as calm as possible, Captain Hearn announces over the intercom that the flight is being diverted because of a minor mechanical problem.

[799] Then the captain opens the hijack instructions envelope, and inside he finds a grenade pin, a bullet, and two typed pages of highly detailed directions.

[800] The letter instructs the captain to land at San Francisco International Airport and park the aircraft at runway 19, comma, left, where it would be somewhat isolated.

[801] The letter states that no person or vehicle except the truck that refills the plane's fuel tank is allowed anywhere near the aircraft.

[802] It also stipulates that one passenger will be assigned to retrieve the hijackers checked bags from an airline worker, so go into the belly of the plane and get my checked bag and bring it up here.

[803] They must be immediately handed over to him.

[804] And most critically, the letter demands that four parachutes and $500 ,000 are to be delivered to the plane and then handed over to the hijacker still while they're on the ground in San Francisco.

[805] So it's $1972, $500 ,000 is worth how much in today's money?

[806] 3 .2 million.

[807] 3 .7 million.

[808] 3 .7 million high five across the table.

[809] That's like closest I've ever gotten.

[810] I mean, that, wouldn't it be cool if you now you won 3 .5 million for that?

[811] For your trouble.

[812] That's what's on the line the whole time.

[813] The goal this entire time.

[814] And then like from our studio here, the money just drops from the ceiling.

[815] It's real dirty money.

[816] Like, they didn't even get new bills.

[817] That's right.

[818] We should talk to them about keeping up in a ball like.

[819] squid game.

[820] Don't drop the money on us.

[821] So the last thing the hijacker writes is that he wants all of these written instructions return to him.

[822] Nobody gets to keep any of these little letters, and there are a ton of them.

[823] Captain Hearn later says, quote, there was practically no verbal communication with him.

[824] About 99 % of his communication was in written messages.

[825] Interesting.

[826] So Captain Hearn follows the hijacker's demands, and after coordinating with the airline and airport officials, flight 855 lands at the San Francisco airport.

[827] Meanwhile, authorities go get the half a million dollars cash from Wells Fargo Bank, they stuff it into two 20 -pound bags, and then they head down to the airport.

[828] Back on the plane, a flight attendant gets on the intercom and announces they've just landed, not in Grand Junction, but at the San Francisco International Airport, because there they're better equipped to handle the plane's specific issues.

[829] The pilot then stops the plane at the hijacker's designated area.

[830] And then once they basically pull into that spot, any illusion of calm that these passengers had left is shattered.

[831] The hijacker fully takes control of the plane.

[832] He's brandishing a pistol.

[833] He takes the crew hostage.

[834] And then he sends a passenger out to go pick up the cash and the parachutes that an airport employee has waiting.

[835] The passenger comes back, delivers all that.

[836] And while that's happening, truck is refilling the plane and the other passenger assigned to go grab the hijackers bags meets up with the airline worker who's taken them out of the cargo hold all the while the hijackers handing letters to one specific flight attendant who was summoned on the intercom so some of these letters appear to have been pre -typed others have clearly just been written they all contain more and more instructions for the flight crew and the passengers so three hours after landing at SFO, all the hijackers' requests seem to have been met.

[837] So he hands over another letter.

[838] And in it, he orders the crew to open the doors and make sure every single one of the passengers, one by one, gets off of the plane and plus one flight attendant.

[839] Okay.

[840] So then through more notes, the hijacker tells the crew that the doors must be shut and the plane should take off.

[841] The crew is ordered to huddle in the cockpit, while the hijacker will stay in the back of the plane.

[842] So, of course, Captain Hearn has no choice but to follow these demands, and once again, he prepares for takeoff.

[843] But then they hear the hijacker's voice over the intercom.

[844] He asks the same flight attendant to meet him at the back of the plane that he's been talking to or interacting with this whole time.

[845] Yeah.

[846] And there he gives a last set of handwritten instructions.

[847] Captain Hearn needs to fly east towards Utah, maintaining an elevation of 16 ,000 feet and keeping a speed of two 200 miles per hour, and they need to pass over several specific communities in Utah as they go.

[848] So they need to be on a specific flight path.

[849] Okay.

[850] So the hijacker then orders the cabin to be depressurized and the lights to be turned down.

[851] Oh, my gosh.

[852] Is he going to fucking throw money to his friends and family?

[853] I mean, well, no, but kind of.

[854] So he also wants consistent updates on the wind speeds and the sky conditions.

[855] And if the captain doesn't obey, the hijacker vows to blow up the plane with that hand grenade, that he basically is messaged that they now have the pin for, and he's just holding on to.

[856] Oh, shit.

[857] Like, it's an active grenade.

[858] Oh, okay.

[859] What grenades back in the 70s and 80s, like bandied about?

[860] Vietnam.

[861] Oh, right.

[862] So flight 855 takes off once again, this time, back east.

[863] toward Utah.

[864] So at some point, the hijacker, which is so funny and devious, but he covers that there's a peephole in the cockpit and he covers it with tape so they can't see him.

[865] Oh, my God.

[866] Or look at him.

[867] That's simple.

[868] Or watch him, I know.

[869] Do you ever do that when you knock on someone's door?

[870] I just, I always do that.

[871] Just cover it with my finger.

[872] Like, you don't get a look at me. You don't get to open the door.

[873] Open the fucking door.

[874] Didn't we make a plan?

[875] One forward thinking member of the flight crew gets down on the ground and tries to see what he's doing from the gap at the bottom of the cockpit door.

[876] And that crew member can't see the man's face but they watch him open his suitcase and then change into a jumpsuit, a helmet, and a parachute pack.

[877] Moments later, the hijacker jumps out of the plane.

[878] And he takes his bags of ransom money with him.

[879] It's now been five hours since this whole ordeal began.

[880] So after a few moments with no new contact or correspondence from the of the plane, the crew opens the cockpit door and is overjoyed to see that the hijacker is no longer on board.

[881] And with that, Captain Hearn lands the plane in Salt Lake City, and later on that flight crew is flown back to L .A., which was their destination in the first place.

[882] According to the Herald Examiner newspaper, they, quote, walked off the plane at Los Angeles International Airport, tired, some dazed, a few carrying cocktails.

[883] Yeah, they did.

[884] They fucking made themselves a cocktail.

[885] Right.

[886] Yeah.

[887] and tiny tangeray bottles up to those, I mean, to know it's over, to factually know it's over by the fact that he jumped out of the plane, you're just like, yeah, we're safe now.

[888] Or did he hide a fucking grenade somewhere?

[889] Like, you can't.

[890] That's the thing.

[891] When you let go, they explode.

[892] Yeah, but what, okay, yeah.

[893] Oh, you did wage it.

[894] Wedget somewhere, yeah, I don't know.

[895] In the Sky Mall, wedge it into a sky mall.

[896] And I'm sure there's many more details about how grenades explode that somebody out there definitely wants to teach us about, please do.

[897] According to a 1972 issue of the New York Times, including the mysterious D .B. Cooper case, this will be the seventh hijacking involving a parachute in the last five months of 1972 alone.

[898] Five months?

[899] Yes.

[900] Oh my God.

[901] It was a big deal back then.

[902] I mean, it was like it was a way people were figuring out how to like effectively get.

[903] their word out there and make known the cause that they wanted an international audience to know about.

[904] Yeah, we've done quite a few of those.

[905] Yeah.

[906] But this, the hijacking of Flight 855, it stands out as the highest paid ransom in an airplane hijacking.

[907] So law enforcement kicks off yet another skyjacking investigation.

[908] So first they search the plane itself.

[909] The only thing they find is one of the hijackers' handwritten letters.

[910] But since he was wearing gloves, it's initially suspected there won't be any fingerprints to find.

[911] Investigators interview the crew of Flight 855, and they piece together that the hijacker jumped out of the plane over Provo, Utah.

[912] Now a team made up of FBI agents, Provo police, and cops from the Utah County Sheriff's Department create a search triangle that extends from Provo to Soldier Summit to Nephi, your three favorite Utah cities.

[913] If you're out in Soldier Summit right now listening to this podcast, what are you even doing?

[914] What are you even camping right now?

[915] I just read, I added the sentence, these are all cities in Utah.

[916] I was actually going to text Bridger.

[917] I was going to say Bridger knows.

[918] Bridger probably is familiar with all of them and could give reviews.

[919] So they create this search triangle.

[920] Investigators go search in that triangle for a full day, aided by two Air Force helicopters and the Utah Highway Patrol who set up.

[921] roadblocks, not a town going out in Utah, they can't find anything.

[922] Provo police chief, Jesse Evans, tells the Daily Herald, quote, we found no human footprints and no sign of anything out there.

[923] And the second day is when Peter Fanning, the teenager, finds one of the hijackers, four parachutes in a provo culvert.

[924] Why did he order four parachutes?

[925] Is that something that skyjumpers know that I don't know?

[926] I think because if they rig, like, they can't rig them all, or something along those lines.

[927] If they're left with one, they can just cut all of it.

[928] But it's like they can basically say don't mess with the parachutes.

[929] They all look the same.

[930] I can tell if you fucked with them.

[931] Something along those lines.

[932] But also they say the theory that got developed around D .B. Cooper and that's applied here is that he, as they go, they throw the parachutes out the door.

[933] So it could be like, we found the parachute here and that's over Provo, but that's not where he jumped out.

[934] Okay, that totally makes sense.

[935] Yeah.

[936] Or they could be like, oh, they're going to take some of the crew with them.

[937] We better leave them alone, too, right, maybe?

[938] Could be.

[939] Yeah, make somebody innocent use one of those parachutes.

[940] Yeah.

[941] It could also be that once the hijacker landed, he just wanted to throw the parachute in the air and get under it like we used to in grammar school, in Montessori grammar school.

[942] So, of course, the FBI is trying to figure out who this hijacker is.

[943] his plane ticket says the initial T. Johnson immediately determined to be a fake name.

[944] When they talked to the passengers and crew members on that flight, they described this man as a white man around 30 years old with a medium build who was clearly wearing a wig, fake mustache, and fake sideburns.

[945] They also mentioned he had a band -aid on his left cheek, although it's unclear why, and very short, very dirty fingernails.

[946] Look away from my mind right now.

[947] Captain Hearn and his co -pilot, a man named Ken Bradley, tell investigators that they believe the hijacker must have had flying experience and could be a pilot himself, since he clearly had a handle on the logistics of air travel.

[948] He also seemed to know Utah incredibly well from the sky, suggesting he might live there.

[949] A United Airlines official is quoted in The Daily Herald as saying, quote, it would seem that the hijacking was well thought out, well planned, and he obviously had a knowledge of parachutes.

[950] Yeah.

[951] So less than two days after the hijacking, the FBI's office in Salt Lake City gets the call it's been waiting for.

[952] A man calls in with a tip saying that one of his best friends fits the hijacker's description to a T. And not only that, but his friend had recently talked about wanting to hijack a plane for a $500 ,000 ransom.

[953] Come on, Narc.

[954] Like, can you?

[955] That's no friend.

[956] That's a lowercase F friend, in my opinion.

[957] It's an F -U friend.

[958] The friend that the friend was talking about is a man named Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. It was that easy that his friend fucking narked on him?

[959] Well, but also he told on himself.

[960] You did.

[961] Don't keep it to yourself.

[962] Yes, you're overjoyed about this plan.

[963] But zip it.

[964] Would you have told on your friend, though?

[965] Like, depends on acquaintance.

[966] But, well, I guess it would depend on the threat level that you would feel like this person was at.

[967] Oh, yeah.

[968] So we'll talk about Richard Floyd, McCoy, Jr. In 1972, he was a 29 -year -old student at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City.

[969] He's a married father of two.

[970] He's an active member of the Mormon Church, and he used to teach Sunday school.

[971] One of his classmates of BYU tells a reporter, quote, all he ever talked about was sin.

[972] Jesus.

[973] It was real fun to hang out with.

[974] There's two ways you can talk about sin, but either you're a total bore or you're the best.

[975] So Richard McCoy, Jr. completed two tours of Vietnam.

[976] Wow.

[977] He served as a helicopter pilot, and he was currently serving at the time as a member of the National Guard.

[978] When FBI agents arrive at the McCoy home to interview Richard, they notice that he fits the basic description of the hijacker, but he also has a limp, which he claims is the result of a recent skiing accident.

[979] Richard denies having anything to do with the hijacking of flight 850 ,000.

[980] and he even claims to have an alibi he was with his wife during the incident.

[981] He allows the agents to take his picture and search his car, but he will not let them inside his home.

[982] And before they leave, Richard hands over what the FBI will describe as a limited amount of handwriting samples.

[983] So investigators compare these samples with some of the handwritten documents that they got from Richard's time in the military, and they appear to be a match.

[984] Then investigators managed to pull a latent print off an airline magazine from the seat back pocket beside the hijackers -assigned seats.

[985] Wow.

[986] He got that.

[987] When they compare it to a print of Richards from his military records, it's a match.

[988] So police then talked to Richard's doctor.

[989] They confirm that he was in fact treated for a ski injury several weeks prior.

[990] However, his leg had been placed in a cast, which was no longer there.

[991] They don't know if Richard removed it himself, either.

[992] because it would hinder his escape or it would be used to identify him after the hijacking, why he couldn't do the hijacking after he was fully healed.

[993] Yeah, so he didn't get it jumping out of a plane.

[994] He actually had had a...

[995] Okay.

[996] Yeah, unless the doctor was like lying for him.

[997] Yeah.

[998] Or he lied to the doctor.

[999] It doesn't sound like it.

[1000] Right, because it said several weeks earlier.

[1001] Right, right.

[1002] So I know, because it was like, yeah, you're going to jump out of a plane and probably hurt yourself once you land.

[1003] Yeah.

[1004] But it didn't seem like that was the connection.

[1005] action.

[1006] Or maybe it's like he, you know, threw him still down skiing, had to get treated by doctor, and then how to cover.

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] So when investigators show some of the witnesses Richard's photograph, they actually hit a stumbling block because it's hard for anyone to make a positive ID because the hijacker was wearing such a weird disguise.

[1010] But then Richard's own sister -in -law comes forward and she claims that he had tried to pull her into this hijacking scheme.

[1011] So, I think if everybody in Richard's life is narking on Richard, then I think Richard's the problem.

[1012] Yeah, Richard left all the detailed instructions on the seat beside him in the fucking waiting area.

[1013] I mean.

[1014] So why would you try, like, he's not someone you want to make a plan with.

[1015] No. I mean, those were what the pilot needed to have to go forward and make the hijacking happen.

[1016] That was an accident, him leaving them behind.

[1017] He fucking left it out by the coffee machine.

[1018] hijacking instructions on the outside.

[1019] So soon after that, investigators get a positive ID from one of the flight 855 passengers, and it's one that really counts.

[1020] It's the passenger sent to pick up the ransom money and parachutes from the airport worker and bring them back to Richard on the parked plane.

[1021] So this is a person who actually directly interacted with him.

[1022] So with that, police get the green line.

[1023] light to dig up the McCoy's yard looking for that money, assuming that he buried it.

[1024] They don't find it, but they do find a few buried boxes that contain quote -unquote evidence.

[1025] It's unclear what this evidence is, but they basically, because of that, get a search warrant for Richard's home, and that's where they find $49 ,970 stuffed into two bags and a cardboard box.

[1026] Oh, shit.

[1027] Quick math.

[1028] How much has he spent?

[1029] Say it again?

[1030] I wasn't listening to say you.

[1031] $499 ,49 ,970, he has spent $30.

[1032] $30.

[1033] Oh, man. It's hilarious.

[1034] So they also find in the house a parachute and a pistol and that hand grenade, which turns out to be fake.

[1035] Oh, man. So less than a week after the hijacking, Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. is arrested by the FBI.

[1036] he has charged with air piracy, which carries a maximum penalty of death.

[1037] Is it like a federal offense?

[1038] Uh -huh.

[1039] Oh, no. I don't know if that was always the law.

[1040] Or if they even, it'd be interesting to know when they came up with that law, when they had to.

[1041] Because I think this was a whole new world.

[1042] Totally.

[1043] For everybody.

[1044] After Richard's preliminary hearing, a reporter asks if he has any comment.

[1045] And Richard replies, quote, well, it's embarrassing.

[1046] Let's face it.

[1047] Which is maybe my favorite criminal quote of all time.

[1048] Let's just be real.

[1049] This is embarrassing.

[1050] Look.

[1051] So Richard McCoy Jr. pleats not guilty, but by the end of his trial in June 1972, which is only two months after this hijacking took place.

[1052] So they were like, you are going to be made a lesson of.

[1053] He's convicted and he's sentenced to 45 years in prison.

[1054] Wow.

[1055] He files for an appeal shortly after.

[1056] After that appeal is denied, Richard's eventually sent to a federal prison in Pennsylvania.

[1057] Within two years of his arrival at that prison, he and a group of inmates mastermind a plan to overtake a garbage truck and drive it through the prison gates.

[1058] And they do.

[1059] They succeed.

[1060] Oh, my God.

[1061] The plan works.

[1062] Richard is once again on the lamb.

[1063] It's suspected that he and the other escapees then go rob a bank.

[1064] They make off with $100 ,000 worth about how much in today's money?

[1065] $100 ,000.

[1066] is going to be worth 1 .2?

[1067] 640.

[1068] Oh, okay.

[1069] I mean, 640 ,000.

[1070] Once they get away, they all vanish.

[1071] The FBI agents now have to open yet another investigation centered around Richard Floyd, McCoy, Jr. But Richard is tracked down a couple months later at a house in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

[1072] He's staying there with another fugitive named Melvindale Walker, who's wanted for robbing banks.

[1073] So the FBI basically go into the house one day when the men aren't home and they stake out inside the house and the surrounding property.

[1074] And an agent named Gerald Coakley will later say, quote, McCoy entered the front door with a key and one of the agents identified himself and told him to hold it right there.

[1075] The fellow went for his gun, got one shot off, and the agent returned fire.

[1076] Oh, wow.

[1077] So Richard Floyd, McCoy, Jr. is shot and killed at the scene.

[1078] Melvindale Walker surrenders, and he has arrested without incident.

[1079] Wow.

[1080] In November of 1974, Richard Floyd, McCoy, Jr., is buried in his home state of North Carolina, and he is just 31 years old.

[1081] Oh, my God.

[1082] So there's a few lingering questions about the McCoy case.

[1083] One is motive.

[1084] Obviously, it was money on the surface, but Richard never explained why he chose such an extreme way of getting that money.

[1085] As for the missing $30, the FBI has...

[1086] an idea of where at least some of it went because the write -up in the case includes this quote quote, when shown McCoy's photograph, an employee at a roadside hamburger stand said that she had sold him a milkshake at about 1130 on the night of the crime.

[1087] In addition, a teenager stated that a man fitting McCoy's description paid him $5 for a ride from the stand to a nearby town.

[1088] Wow.

[1089] He went and got a milkshake after jumping out of a fucking hijacked plane.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] Yep.

[1092] But the biggest unresolved element in this case involves the connection to D .B. Cooper.

[1093] Back in 1972, an FBI spokesperson told the New York Times, quote, we're not working on the theory that Richard McCoy and D .B. Cooper were the same person.

[1094] Apparently, the Bureau couldn't find a solid link connecting the two hijackings, which is surprising given how similar they are, right down to the four parachutes requested by both men.

[1095] Not to mention, the sketch of D .B. Cooper looks exactly like Richard Floyd -McCoy.

[1096] And in recent years, McCoy's own son, Rick, has identified his dad as D .B. Cooper.

[1097] Oh, my God, no way.

[1098] Yeah, right.

[1099] Rick is now working with the FBI to share whatever information he has and claims he's only just come forward now because his mother, who Rick claims, confessed to being a co -conspirator, had recently passed away.

[1100] Dude.

[1101] Deathbed confessions.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] We know that the FBI has requested a DNA sample that they hope to commit.

[1104] pair with evidence found on the airplane that D .B. Cooper hijacked, and Rick is cooperating with the agents, but it's still in process, so no announcements have been made.

[1105] I feel like D .B. Coopers was kind of smooth and flawless, and this one wasn't.

[1106] This one was like nervous, you know, and flawed.

[1107] Flod.

[1108] Yeah, but who knows?

[1109] Hijack instructions piece.

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] Really is, looks a bit green and jane.

[1112] But maybe he did it the one time and then he used that money to take drugs.

[1113] Oh, it could be drugs.

[1114] He used that money to sin as much as he could.

[1115] Meanwhile, naysayers point out that Richard can't possibly be D .B. Cooper because he's too young, not to mention that the witnesses on Flight 855 were shown sketches of D .B. Cooper and denied he was their hijacker.

[1116] Yeah, but they kind of recognize him to begin with because of his shit.

[1117] What the fun did they know?

[1118] People who don't support the theory that Richard and D .B. Cooper are the same man, believe that Richard simply ripped off D .B. Cooper's act.

[1119] If that's the case, he was a very precise copycat, the sunglasses, the suit, the number of parachutes listed in the demands.

[1120] Investigators believe D .B. Cooper asked for four parachutes so we could toss them out, as I said, to throw off a ground search.

[1121] So maybe Richard was just repeating an effective strategy because he knew D .B. Cooper never got Yeah.

[1122] Maybe someday as the FBI continues to work on this case, we'll have a clear answer.

[1123] But for now, whether Richard McCoy is, in fact, D .B. Cooper remains a mystery.

[1124] And that is the story of Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., and the hijacking of Flight 855.

[1125] Wow.

[1126] Do you think we'll ever find out who D .B. Cooper was?

[1127] I can, I like this line of questioning.

[1128] I do, too.

[1129] I love it when, and this has happened a couple times in big true crime cases, the children of of the people come forward and they're like, well, here's this.

[1130] Yeah, my dad always talked about this.

[1131] Yeah, mom always, if I can.

[1132] Also, the mom on a deathbed being like, I'm a co -conspirator, but I have to tell you this.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] Is very convincing to me. I agree.

[1135] I agree.

[1136] Or it's good writing, but it kind of adds up.

[1137] Wow, great job.

[1138] Thank you.

[1139] I love that one.

[1140] Yeah, I love a hijacking.

[1141] That's just, yeah, wild.

[1142] Right?

[1143] Also, just that like a spate of hijackings.

[1144] Oh, my gosh.

[1145] In the 70s.

[1146] That's wilds.

[1147] I want like a podcast that explains why and all that, you know?

[1148] Yeah.

[1149] Should we tell you guys what you're even doing right now?

[1150] Yeah, I think we should.

[1151] Okay, this is the hashtag, what are you even doing right now where you guys tell us what you even do when you listen to my favorite murder?

[1152] Kind of fun.

[1153] Yeah, we love to know.

[1154] This one kind of hit me. This is from Shelby NEM from Instagram.

[1155] I listened to this episode while ending an insomnia all -nighter with a 5 a .m. walk to the beach and ocean.

[1156] swim.

[1157] Oh.

[1158] Oh.

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] I'm impressed because my insomnia all -nighters, I just stay in bed the whole time.

[1161] Yeah.

[1162] I mean, that's a nice way to just kind of try to do something different.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] That sounds lovely.

[1165] Near the ocean.

[1166] Right.

[1167] I'm sorry about the insomnia.

[1168] It's the worst.

[1169] Magnesium.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] Glycate.

[1172] Glycinate.

[1173] I have magnesium lotion.

[1174] I put on my feet.

[1175] They say.

[1176] That's a good one.

[1177] Put on some lotion, put on some socks.

[1178] Great.

[1179] This one's from the, an email.

[1180] And, and And it says, I'm helping solve a murder right now.

[1181] What?

[1182] Hey, Karen and Georgia, I've got a story for your What Are You Even Doing Right Now segment?

[1183] This one's a bit of a thriller.

[1184] I'm a GIS analyst.

[1185] So my day usually revolves around making maps and analyzing geographic data.

[1186] But today, things got a whole lot more interesting.

[1187] An investigator put in a request with my department for a map to assist in a murder investigation.

[1188] Whoa.

[1189] Right now I'm creating a detailed map of the county boundary and city limits for them to use and it's not just any map this one will help investigators pinpoint crucial locations related to the case and provide a clearer picture of the area who knew my love for maps would lead me to assist in a murder investigation talk about a plot twist say sexy and don't get murdered m holy shit so that's not what they're supposed to be doing and suddenly it's like well you need to this is an episode of bones for sure one um a shy Map Maker.

[1190] Hidden in the back room.

[1191] Yeah.

[1192] Wow.

[1193] Oh, my God.

[1194] It's exciting.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] Thanks for letting us know what you guys are even doing right now.

[1197] And thanks for listening.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] We appreciate you.

[1200] Thanks for listening and multitasking and supporting us.

[1201] It's just you're really going above and beyond and we appreciate it.

[1202] You're doing it all.

[1203] And congratulations on the future.

[1204] Stay sexy.

[1205] And don't get murdered.

[1206] Goodbye.

[1207] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1208] Meow.

[1209] This has been an exactly right production.

[1210] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1211] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[1212] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1213] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachey.

[1214] Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

[1215] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1216] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at MyFave Murder.

[1217] Goodbye.