Now Is The Time To Turn Your Financial Ship Around

[0] the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's the Ramsey Show.

[2] We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[3] George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co -host today.

[4] He is a big star on YouTube on the George Camel show, and also, of course, co -host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, an author of the brand new book that comes out next week called Breaking Free from Broke, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress.

[5] There it is right there.

[6] All right.

[7] Courtney's with us.

[8] Courtney is in Colorado Springs.

[9] Hi, Courtney.

[10] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[11] Hi.

[12] Thank you so much for having me. Sure.

[13] What's up?

[14] My question is, how do I protect or how does my husband and I protect our finances against his money -hungry ex -wife?

[15] Money -hungry ex -wife.

[16] Why would she have any access to your finances?

[17] She's called the ex -wife for a reason.

[18] Basically, our main concern is, could she pull more child support when she finds out that he's been married?

[19] I'm sorry, would she get child support increased because he got a raise?

[20] Is that what you said?

[21] Because we got married, could she take more?

[22] She doesn't get more child support because you got married.

[23] child support is based on his income not yours gotcha okay so how else would the crazy ex have access to your husband's money that was the only way I was thinking I heard that they do yearly audit they do someone they do because your husband your husband has children and he should support those children and the law agrees with that idea.

[24] Correct.

[25] And if he gets more money as his income, he's supposed to give more to his children.

[26] That's not a money -hungry ex.

[27] That's just dad taking care of his kids.

[28] Right.

[29] Has she contacted him?

[30] Is she making threats?

[31] Or is this just all kind of in your head right now of what could happen?

[32] Um, she hasn't contacted him.

[33] I guess this is just me trying to make sure we protect ourselves.

[34] Okay.

[35] Well, you're in good shape.

[36] As as your husband is willing to give the legal percentage of his income to his children under the law for child support, which he legally and morally should do, if you want protection from that, I can't help you.

[37] But as long as he's willing to do that, you don't need protection from anything else.

[38] She can't get anything else.

[39] She has no access.

[40] Or if your husband is spineless and just gives her money because she yells at him or something.

[41] I mean, has he got that problem um no she's not okay so he's not he doesn't just hand her money just because she puffs up or something right correct okay that's just a behavior issue that's not a legal or a financial issue but yeah i mean sometimes people are intimidated by their exes or whatever and um we have to just kind of correct that by saying you know x in front is a reason yes x means no Mo. No mo. That's what that means.

[42] We're making sure the courts decide how this goes down, not his emotions or her.

[43] And so that's the important part.

[44] It sounds like this is largely right now just a fear versus a reality.

[45] Yeah.

[46] Like you have discovered that no one likes your husband's ex.

[47] Oh, well.

[48] That's really, you know, you know, because she's a greedy jerk.

[49] Okay, whatever.

[50] That's fine.

[51] No trouble.

[52] But she's still over there, and she's the ex.

[53] And the only involvement you have is just around the children, and so we'll try to be nice and pleasant and give the appropriate amount of child support.

[54] As long as you're trying to do that, then I don't think you're going to have any issues.

[55] There's nothing she can just, you know, or unless she shows up at the doorstep and your husband just caves and starts handing their money, but that's a husband issue.

[56] That's not a protection issue then.

[57] Yeah, this was simpler than I thought it would be.

[58] I thought there was some crazy stuff going on, but it's just child support as far as we can tell.

[59] Yeah.

[60] So, yeah, very reasonable.

[61] Well, there's a real dynamic when you're the new wife and the ex is over there in the distance.

[62] Crazy.

[63] There's still a connection point.

[64] That's a dynamic.

[65] Those kids are still going to be in his life, so you're going to have to learn to manage it.

[66] Yeah, it's a thing.

[67] Christians in Missouri.

[68] Hi, Christian.

[69] How are you?

[70] Hello, I'm good.

[71] Good.

[72] How can we help?

[73] I joined the Navy, and I'm leaving for boot camp in June.

[74] They cover most of your expenses.

[75] and so I have most of my five foundations covered.

[76] After I get my $500 emergency fund set up, am I ready to start going to step five because I paid cash for my car?

[77] They pay for college, and I don't have any daily expenses that most civilians have to pay for.

[78] What should I do with the $2 ,000 paycheck I get?

[79] Yeah.

[80] So you're 18?

[81] Yes, sir.

[82] Thank you for serving your country, sir.

[83] and thanks for going through the personal finance curriculum i can tell by the way you're talking it stuck with you you went to that in high school didn't you i'm actually still in it i'm graduating in may and i'm taking it this year oh wow fantastic so boot camp is immediately after graduation huh yes sir wow look at you okay well we will graduate you from the high school curriculum to the adult curriculum, which will mean you start with a fully funded emergency fund, which is three to six months of expenses.

[84] You're making $2 ,000 a month.

[85] Most things are furnished, so we might call that emergency fund $5 ,000, not $500.

[86] $500 is for high school students.

[87] Yes, sir.

[88] Okay, but now you're going to leave high school and enter the land of grownups.

[89] So we're going to put you on a grown -up plan, and that's going to be an emergency.

[90] So your first goal is going to be a five.

[91] thousand dollar emergency fund you have no debt right correct okay you paid cash for the car and so beyond the emergency fund you can begin investing with earned income and maybe fully fund a Roth IRA and there's probably some retirement options through the Navy I imagine okay maybe a TSP question is um in this curriculum we learn everything interest rates based on a 12 % interest rate for compound interest.

[92] How do I actually get that good of an interest rate?

[93] Look at your TSP in the Navy.

[94] It's the Thrift Savings Plan.

[95] They have a Roth version.

[96] You'll do that.

[97] If you look at the C plan in that, it's north of 11%.

[98] It's not quite 12 right now.

[99] Average.

[100] At the C plan?

[101] The C plan.

[102] It's the common stock plan.

[103] I wouldn't put it all in there.

[104] I would put some in the S and in the I, the I, the I is international, S is small cap, C is common stock.

[105] Those three, and I'd probably put 80 % in the C and 10 in the S and 10 in the I, and that's your retirement plan, Roth Thrift Savings Plan, the TSP with the military, okay?

[106] Okay.

[107] And when you leave the military, you can roll that out to an IRA if you want to.

[108] Okay.

[109] How much would you recommend me putting in that retirement fund?

[110] 15 % of your income.

[111] after you have your $5 ,000 set aside.

[112] Okay.

[113] You're very wise to get ahead of this, Christian.

[114] I want you to continue all the way through boot camp to make sure you are writing down each month before the month begins where every dollar goes because there's a lot of really stupid stuff 18 -year -olds in the military do with money, and I don't want you doing any of that.

[115] A lot of crazy crap out there, son.

[116] So just be careful.

[117] Continue to be calm and white.

[118] like you are right now, and you're going to do really well.

[119] You'll be so wealthy, my friend.

[120] Thank you again for your service.

[121] Well, George, it's this week.

[122] 300 ,000 people already know it's this week, and some of you apparently didn't know, but we're going to let you in on the secret.

[123] You're invited.

[124] You're invited.

[125] Easiest sales pitch ever, because it's free.

[126] What percent of Americans say they live paycheck to paycheck?

[127] The answer is generally for 30 years since I've been doing this, around 70%.

[128] So if you drive down your street, somewhere around seven out of ten houses, have too much month left at the end of the money.

[129] And too much car in the driveway.

[130] And too many boats and sea do's.

[131] And C -Doo's all need a sister.

[132] So you've got two of them.

[133] Yeah.

[134] Crazy just breeds.

[135] And there you go.

[136] This says Americans say frequently live paycheck to paycheck, according to recent survey, Harris poll that 65 % do live paycheck to paycheck.

[137] But, you know, either way, you know what, you can be looking good and broke.

[138] That's most of America.

[139] I mean, it's land of the free home of the broke, and we all look good, and we're comfortable with our payments until we're not.

[140] And that's why we're doing this thing.

[141] And, George, did you know?

[142] You do know, but I'm going to pose this as a hypothetical question.

[143] I'm nervous, I don't know.

[144] Yes, you do know.

[145] I'm promising you that.

[146] The stupid has a gravitational pull.

[147] Oh, that's a new science lesson.

[148] Yeah.

[149] Once you get in orbit to stupid, it holds you in the orbit.

[150] It has a gravitational pull to it.

[151] Is that one of like Einstein's laws?

[152] You just keep going around.

[153] It's a Ramsey law.

[154] But we adjust other laws of physics here to meet our own.

[155] It has a gravitational pull.

[156] So if you want to break free of the orbit of stupid, Oh, I like that.

[157] How do you break an orbit?

[158] It requires extra energy.

[159] You can't just keep doing the same thing.

[160] You've got to do something different.

[161] Take some real inertia.

[162] You got to blow it up, right?

[163] And so that's what we're going to do.

[164] If you're stuck in the cycle of being scared of worrying about inflation, worrying about interest rates, worried about the president I we can help you because we've been helping people for 30 years break the cycle your family curse is not a permanent thing the neighborhood you grew up in is not a permanent thing none of this is a permanent thing because you can decide so to kick off the year we're hosting a free live stream this Thursday January the 11th at 7 p .m. central time this is the biggest live stream we've ever done.

[165] It's over 300 ,000 folks already registered.

[166] It's me, Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, George Camel, to my right, Jade Warshall, all going to be talking about navigating money anxiety, breaking the cycle, breaking the orbital pull of stupid, bad money habits that keep you stuck, practical money tips that actually work.

[167] And for the first time ever, we're going to give away $10 ,000.

[168] Ten people are going to win $1 ,000 each as you are a viewer, not signed up you are actually viewing because we will put it up there and you will have to be watching at that moment to qualify so you need to be watching and signing up to do this go to ramsysolutions .com slash break the cycle and register and that then when you're watching we'll know you're registered see you can't just pop in there so you get registered break the cycle ramsysolutions dot com slash break the cycle and it's going to be huge It's already huge.

[169] Yeah, the numbers are boggling my mind.

[170] I think people are already in 2024 just to break free from broke and they're not where they want to be financially, but they know there's hope out there.

[171] And hopefully we can step in and help them.

[172] It's how it works.

[173] It's going to be fun.

[174] Looking forward to it.

[175] It's really, really cool.

[176] That's happening this week.

[177] Next week is the launch on Georgia's new book.

[178] So we're going to have a lot of fun things in the next couple of weeks here for you guys.

[179] And we'll be telling you more about the book a little bit later.

[180] Rita and Charlie are with us.

[181] They are in San Jose, California.

[182] Hey, guys.

[183] How are you?

[184] Great.

[185] How are you?

[186] Better than I deserve.

[187] What's up?

[188] So I'm 50.

[189] I just married my husband Charlie for a year and a half.

[190] I bought a home 20 years ago in Santa Clara, which is nearby San Jose.

[191] And the home is completely paid off.

[192] I just paid it in December.

[193] And it's probably worth $1 .4 million.

[194] He has a house in the mountains that has about $200 ,000 less to pay off in mortgage.

[195] My dream has always been to get another home in the, by the ocean in Mendocino.

[196] And so we recently just looked at a home there that was $300 ,000 needs a lot of repair.

[197] So probably around $500 ,000.

[198] So my husband's idea was to take out a loan on my house that was paid off.

[199] Where do you all live?

[200] I don't really want to do that.

[201] You live in any of these properties currently?

[202] We do.

[203] So we live in the mountains part -time at his home, and then we live in the Bay Area in my home when I work.

[204] I'm a nurse.

[205] Oh, I see.

[206] Okay.

[207] So you live in the paid -for home, you've got a mountain home that's not paid for, and you're talking about going further in debt to buy a third home, a second toy.

[208] Yeah.

[209] Well, you guys are fairly new to Ramsey.

[210] We teach folks to get out of debt and stay out of debt as the best path to build wealth.

[211] Okay.

[212] Not go into debt, particularly for toys.

[213] I've got, you know, vacation homes.

[214] and pay cash for them.

[215] Those are toys.

[216] Yes.

[217] If you have a third house, now you're splitting time between three houses, you're consuming all three of these houses partially.

[218] When you add up what you are paying to stay there per night, it will make you throw up.

[219] Yeah.

[220] That's a toy.

[221] You need to be able to pay cash for that toy.

[222] So you're going to move backwards and go another half million dollars into debt instead of moving forwards financially.

[223] So I would decide where I want to live and what's your household income now?

[224] He's retired, so it's about one, well, mine is like 180 between the two of us.

[225] Okay.

[226] I would have a game plan to get the mountain paid off, and once it's paid off, I would start investing and saving, and when I had some extra cash, I would buy the house on the beach.

[227] That's what I thought.

[228] Yeah.

[229] that's kind of grandma's old -fashioned way save up and pay for it yeah but it works okay you know you're you don't want to go backwards because here's the thing he's retired so how how how old is charlie he is here with me he's 55 oh he quit early okay he did he good for him the heating and air conditioning okay cool well i got a feeling he could go make a ton of money by the way doing something if he wanted to just for the fun of it don't have to yeah but he could if you wanted to advance some of these um some of these goals um yeah you know so earning some income i'm 63 i mean i still work 40 hours a week so not because i have to just because i love what i do and um so that that's kind of a lot he does a lot of work on the side so there's a lot of people who need us help yeah that's good okay so i mean that i i i You do not want to enter your golden years with home debt.

[230] That's what I figured.

[231] I said, I don't want to have another 20, 30 -year mortgage when I just paid it off.

[232] It destabilizes your golden years.

[233] Okay.

[234] And as we've studied millionaires and we studied 10 ,000 of them, the vast majority of them have all of their home and everything paid for is one of the big elements of their million -dollar net worth.

[235] The other one is, of course, their investments.

[236] Okay.

[237] And so I want you to, you're millionaires already, based on what you've told me, because of just the equity in these two properties.

[238] I don't even know what your nest egg is.

[239] So you're a millionaire, but you don't want to go backwards and destabilize this.

[240] Debt adds risk.

[241] More debt adds more risk.

[242] And that's what was, when y 'all started talking about this, Rita, and your stomach tightened up, that's what you were doing.

[243] You were measuring risk.

[244] Your stomach said, no. Yeah, and Helox are going to put your home at risk, and so the bank could take your home if you default, you misstep in any way, and that's not the kind of retirement I want.

[245] No, you just, everything paid for, big old pile of money, this is retirement, this is the golden years, baby, and you're on your way.

[246] Congratulations on the new marriage.

[247] So let's just take our time, unfold this the right way, go with Rita's plan, not Charlie's.

[248] Sorry, Charlie.

[249] Literally, finally, we've been waiting for that one day.

[250] I want, ready to say that, but, you know, there you go.

[251] This is The Ramsey Show.

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[253] It's when.

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[258] What a mess.

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[266] Call 800 -356 -42 -82.

[267] George Camel, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[268] Thank you for joining us, America.

[269] The phone number here is AAA -825 -2 -2 -25.

[270] The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services.

[271] Neighborly offers a helpful winter maintenance checklist that you can download for free at neighborly .com.

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[273] Find out more at neighborly .com slash Ramsey.

[274] Today's question comes from Sam in Michigan.

[275] Uncle Dave, I'm 37 married with no kids yet.

[276] My net worth is $1 .1 million, $600 in portfolio, $500 in equity in my home, which is worth $900.

[277] I make about $200 ,000 a year, have no consumer debt, and have our three -month emergency fund.

[278] I just got into hunting and there's several shotguns and rifles I want but the misses doesn't see why I need so many guns Uncle Day being a man of great means with many guns what is a fair ratio he said I'm also about to pull the trigger on a new Lund Rebel XL is my first fishing and hunting boat it's $39 ,000 out the door I'm paying cash for it but would be pulling the money from my portfolio to do so I feel it passes the burn it on the floor test what is your take thanks so much for your time this is a fun question live like no one else so later you get to live and give like no one else well done sam in michigan yeah that's fun that's fun sam the only thing i'll tell you is is that there seems to be a ratio that every time i get a gun she gets a new expensive purse did for tat there seems to be a trade off there so um that's the only thing i'll tell you all i heard of hear it was about you buying stuff.

[279] I didn't hear anything about her getting stuff.

[280] So I think there's some, uh, some enjoyment with money that you're learning to do that is within a reason.

[281] And, um, it's not a certain number.

[282] But, uh, all kidding aside, it actually does generally cost me a purse, depending on the gun.

[283] So, uh, or something else.

[284] But yeah, um, I'm going to get one.

[285] It's like revenge spending.

[286] Yeah, none of this has to do with money.

[287] This is just her feelings about him owning all of this, all these toys.

[288] I can tell you, because sharing us.

[289] exactly the same opinion she has absolutely has no need to understand why i need all these firearms but she doesn't know about the zombies that's right the zombie apocalypse i mean you have to be ready so um no seriously dude it's just a toy it's just a thing uh i mean uh whether it's whether you're collecting guns whether you're collecting uh whatever the hobby is whatever your hobby is whatever the thing is you collect whatever the thing you enjoy doing hunting uh you know boats skiing, fishing, whatever.

[290] The trick is just to keep it in balance and that both of you have a say -so.

[291] So, all joking aside, I still do talk to Sharon.

[292] We don't do any purchases around our place without both of us being in on it.

[293] I don't walk in and go, I just spend $8 ,000.

[294] I don't do that.

[295] I could, but it just doesn't, it's not how we got here.

[296] The way we got here is working together and both of us communicating and talking about it.

[297] And she doesn't go spend $8 ,000 on a, whatever without talking to me and you know we did and but 99 % of the time it's like yeah sure because it's it fits the burn test I can burn that much money in the middle of the floor that means we can enjoy the item it's not going to cause us financial trouble we're not buying it for someone else we don't we quit doing that a long with the right motive yeah so you're and he's not buying these guns for someone else he enjoys them for him so uh so is the key here you know Dave doesn't have to value all the things Sharon values, and Sharon doesn't have to value all the things Dave values, but there's communication involved, and she goes, okay, it's in the budget, you're paying cash.

[298] You're probably experiencing this around purchasing things for the new baby.

[299] Oh, yes.

[300] There are things that you don't understand.

[301] Most men don't understand China cabinets.

[302] I still don't.

[303] We don't understand China that we don't use, expensive cabinet to put it in.

[304] None of this makes sense to us.

[305] It was up to me. We just use paper plates.

[306] Just throw in my eyes.

[307] See, there you go.

[308] And if it was up to her, he'd have a BB gun.

[309] That's right.

[310] So there you go.

[311] So, I mean, it's just, there's some things like you don't have to understand everything to see that your spouse gets joy from it and that it is a reasonable purchase within the thing.

[312] Now, where we do run into troubles when someone buys a boat and puts it on payments, you know, they got $60 ,000 in credit card debt and they want to buy an $8 ,000 shotgun.

[313] Now, that's just, that's childish.

[314] That adds financial stress to the family.

[315] Yeah, that's not the opposite of what we're talking about.

[316] He's got a million dollar net worth.

[317] He's 37 years old.

[318] so he can afford a shotgun or she can afford a nice purse or whatever the thing is that you're worried about there the trick is when you get out of control with it so you're just trying to do that and uh i mean true i'm kidding around i'm being snarky about it but it's really no joke there are things that i buy that sharon agrees to but has no understanding why i want them at all and the same with her i'm like you want to you know what i mean I mean, she took a trip with a bunch of girls this summer.

[319] And I'm like, really?

[320] There?

[321] You want to go there?

[322] But I'm not going.

[323] So what do I care?

[324] She wanted to go.

[325] It's her experience.

[326] Let her have it.

[327] That's the thing.

[328] So just hold things with an open hand.

[329] But the biggest glaring thing I see in this, Sam, is not whether you can afford to do it, is that you didn't mention a single thing that she gets to do while you're doing all these things.

[330] And you really do have to have some what of a balance.

[331] It's not tit for tat exactly.

[332] you know, like $4 ,622 I get.

[333] She gets to spend on a $39 ,000 purse.

[334] That's, yeah, it could happen, but, yeah.

[335] So there you go.

[336] I mean, that, you just, you don't have to understand everything.

[337] She didn't have to understand everything.

[338] Can we do it?

[339] And it doesn't affect our family negatively.

[340] And do we still have room in the budget to invest?

[341] Do we still have room in the budget to give?

[342] if this goes sideways, have I caused myself a problem?

[343] And none of that, none of that's here.

[344] No. Do you see it?

[345] No. I mean, it looks good on paper.

[346] It's more than relational issue.

[347] Yeah, you just left out that.

[348] I get called Uncle Dave twice in the email.

[349] I like that.

[350] That's pretty cool.

[351] It's better than Grandpa, Dave, right?

[352] Papa Dave.

[353] That's nice.

[354] That's what the grandkids call me. That's not insulting.

[355] Not for 37 -year -old men.

[356] Well, there you go.

[357] You get Uncle for that.

[358] There you go.

[359] I'll go with that.

[360] All right, Melody is with us in Denver.

[361] Hi, Melody.

[362] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[363] Happy Monday, gentlemen.

[364] Hey, how are you?

[365] Hey, I'm doing good.

[366] How are you today?

[367] Better than we deserve.

[368] What's up?

[369] Okay.

[370] Let me present my question, and then I can talk a little bit about myself.

[371] Question.

[372] My husband and I do not have any debt.

[373] Good.

[374] The only exception is our mortgage.

[375] And while we are saving for our three to six months emergency sound, do you think that's a good idea?

[376] We also do some investment in the meantime.

[377] If yes, what kind of investment tool would you recommend?

[378] Well, thanks for the question, Melody.

[379] I love that you guys are on that stage.

[380] It's a fun place to be when you're building for the future instead of paying for the past.

[381] And if you're following through with the Ramsey Baby Step 3, you guys are in Baby Step 3.

[382] And those are done one at a time, one through three.

[383] And so Baby Step 3, three to six months of expenses and a fully funded emergency fund, once you have that and only when you have that, should you begin investing 15%.

[384] And the reason is because you need financial foundation under you.

[385] Because if you're investing and you don't have the emergency fund in place, you're still at risk here.

[386] And so the goal is to kind of eat the vegetables first.

[387] Get out of debt.

[388] Get the emergency fund.

[389] now we can invest 15 % with no problem versus people investing 3 % while trying to save while trying to pay off debt.

[390] We found that if you do too many things at once, you won't make any progress.

[391] Yeah.

[392] You know, for years, George, we had folks that, well, they get a match at work, and they're just really geared up about the power of compound interest.

[393] They really want to start investing.

[394] And so they go, stink and load up their 401K and have no money at all in an emergency fund.

[395] Well, guess what?

[396] They go back into debt.

[397] No, well, they'll go back in debt or they'll use their 401K.

[398] Oh, for their emergency fund.

[399] You know, the car transmission goes out.

[400] I got no money.

[401] You know, I did a 401k loan.

[402] I got to get two airline tickets to get over across the other side of the United States somewhere.

[403] And, you know, that $4 ,000 ends up as a 401K loan, a credit card debt.

[404] Or worse than that, they cash it out.

[405] Because you did things in the wrong order, you get penalized.

[406] Not technically penalized by the government, but penalized just called stupid tax.

[407] Yeah.

[408] Well, baby step three, it's a hard one.

[409] You don't have the excitement of paying off debt.

[410] You don't have the excitement of investing, but you've got to make this a priority to get that emergency fund in place.

[411] Yeah, you need a rainy day fund.

[412] Takes the drama out of life.

[413] Dave, you ought to be positive.

[414] I'm positive.

[415] It's going to rain.

[416] You need a rainy day fund.

[417] This is the Ramsey show.

[418] Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success.

[419] So, work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website.

[420] Churchill mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps.

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[423] This is a paid advertisement.

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[426] 1749, Mallory Lane, Suite 100.

[427] Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[428] George Camel, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[429] Lamar is in St. Louis.

[430] Hey, Lamar, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[431] Hey, thanks, Dave.

[432] Good talking to you.

[433] You too, man. What's up?

[434] I guess around 2010 or so, maybe a little bit before that, I started listening to some here, I don't know whether there was a podcast or I think it was even tapes or something that you put out.

[435] And since then, you know, I've used all your information to make myself do the things that you were doing, I don't know what you called it baby steps back then or not, but I started.

[436] doing and um i'm 63 now and i've been doing it for all this time to work and i finally excuse me did it work well it worked a little too well i think at a point now in my life i'm 63 i was raised on a farm so i've been working since i was six yeah and i sit and watched some people retire and they'll go sit on the couch and they expire you know the next year yeah absolutely and right now i could do that if i wanted to what's your not worth but uh i'd say four to five million or something like that yeah way to go i'm proud of you but you know i've got uh probably five years of um of cash for emergencies and then i've got uh land i got um i'm I don't owe anybody any money.

[437] I got a nice home.

[438] I've got investment real estate.

[439] Way to go.

[440] It's paid for.

[441] It needs to be developed, but I'm not going to attack that.

[442] So my question is, you know, I'm kind of post -Ramsey now.

[443] What kind of...

[444] No, you are poster -r -Ramsey.

[445] You're the poster child for Ramsey.

[446] You did it, man. You live like no one else now.

[447] You're in a position.

[448] So your questions, what is what to do now?

[449] Yeah, what's next?

[450] Well, you enjoy what you do for work still?

[451] And you're able to do it?

[452] Well, you know, I'm getting to a point where you look at Brown.

[453] I work for a corporation.

[454] And, you know, you're sitting there thinking, okay, you could go out, you'd be fine.

[455] I'm getting to be somewhat of a dinosaur, I guess, even though I'm a chemical engineer.

[456] But the thing is, you know, should I move on, I mean, there's no pressure from the company to get rid of me. I mean, it's just one of those things, you know.

[457] It's just a question of if you, if you hate going to work every day, you've earned the right to quit and do something else.

[458] And you could go start a little business or you could develop that land.

[459] I mean, you can find something to do.

[460] Yeah, I already own a business on the side too.

[461] I mean, but if you don't, if you like going to work and you like the people and, you know, nobody says you have to quit.

[462] Right.

[463] People think that, but, you know.

[464] Dave's still here.

[465] Yeah, and I'll be here a while longer.

[466] Lord Will and the Creek doesn't rise, right?

[467] Yeah, you know, and the other thing I do is, see, I own a training facility for Diamond Sports for pitching and hitting and everything else that's associated with baseball and fast -peach softball.

[468] Wow.

[469] Is that kind of a passion project?

[470] On the side, things like it.

[471] Is that a passion project or something you're doing for money?

[472] Lamar, are you doing that baseball thing as a passion project or something you're just doing for money?

[473] Passion, pure passion.

[474] If you worked over there every day, would that make you happy?

[475] Well, you know, and I'm thinking I'm hoping that may take up some of my time.

[476] I don't know where to take it all.

[477] We put that in in 2018, and it was put in specifically for fast -pitched softball, and it's baseball now, too, but within by 2021, we started winning state championships in our little area here in fast -pitched softball.

[478] So it was very effective, and it disaffirm.

[479] not a promo.

[480] I'm just trying to tell you what.

[481] Yeah.

[482] But it's almost a bucket list thing and I've almost marked it off.

[483] Well, you could expand it, take it to another community.

[484] You could have five of them in five years instead of just one of them.

[485] Or you can just keep running that.

[486] You said something about developing that land.

[487] You might do that.

[488] You know, I've cut back to four days a week.

[489] I don't work Fridays most of the time.

[490] If we're doing something around here, I come in.

[491] But most of the time I'm off.

[492] And so, and that gives Sharon and I time to do stuff.

[493] And I can work, I can piddle around with those stuff here and there.

[494] But, you know, it's up to you.

[495] I enjoy what I do.

[496] And so I will, my plan is to do it as be on this microphone as long as I make sense.

[497] When I quit making sense, James is going to take me off.

[498] And we're going to blame George.

[499] That's right.

[500] We'll probably meet both of us at that point.

[501] We'll probably just run reruns.

[502] Why, you think, you think you won't make sense.

[503] You know what?

[504] You're planning on going early.

[505] Yeah, I'll go with you, Dave.

[506] You're going to get like early.

[507] Whenever you go, I'll go.

[508] Early retirement.

[509] I'm kidding.

[510] I don't think so.

[511] We'll have AI, Dave, by then.

[512] So I'm not worried about that.

[513] But I do like the idea of Lamar dreaming a little bit.

[514] That's what we're trying to get them to do is just write some of these things down, things that you've been itching to do for a long time and never got around to it.

[515] And if you enjoy your work as a chemical engineer and the people are reasonable and the company's reasonable and you want to keep doing it, there's nothing.

[516] It says you've got to quit just because you got five million.

[517] And he's right.

[518] The people that check out and just sit on the couch, they expire.

[519] I like to what he put that.

[520] It's like bad cereal.

[521] It expired.

[522] This mustard expired.

[523] Don't leave the milk on the counter.

[524] It expires.

[525] That's right.

[526] He's right.

[527] That's what happens.

[528] Because, you know, man was made to do stuff.

[529] Woman is made to do stuff.

[530] He's not scared of work and he doesn't hate it.

[531] That's a beautiful thing.

[532] Yeah, that's fun.

[533] You don't have to follow what everybody else says to do.

[534] You didn't, you didn't get $5 million doing that.

[535] Kelly and Milwaukee, how are you?

[536] Hi, I'm good.

[537] Thanks for taking my call.

[538] Sure.

[539] What's up?

[540] So my question today is about whole life insurance.

[541] Mm -hmm.

[542] So my husband has a full -life insurance policy that was started for him by his grandparents when he was a baby.

[543] I'm sorry.

[544] Y 'all, Gerber plan.

[545] And luckily, we are not paying the premiums on it.

[546] Yeah.

[547] His parents are paying the premiums.

[548] Yuck.

[549] And it currently has a $70 ,000 cash value.

[550] And so I want to know if it would be a good idea to cash that out at this place and use it for a larger down payment on a house.

[551] Yes.

[552] Oh, good.

[553] Do you have children?

[554] We do, yes.

[555] Do you have life insurance?

[556] We do.

[557] Enough to take care of you if your husband dies or vice versa without this whole life policy?

[558] Yes.

[559] Cash it in and use that money for something good.

[560] Sitting in a whole life policy, it's making 1%.

[561] And when he dies, they're going to keep $70 ,000 and pay only the face value of that policy.

[562] Whole life life insurance is the payday lender of the middle class.

[563] They've been screwing and tattooing the public for decades.

[564] Since they were baby.

[565] getting away with it, since there were babies.

[566] Yeah, they have put so much money into this policy that it makes me want to barf for there to be $70 ,000 in there.

[567] Mm -hmm.

[568] Yeah, and me and my husband know that, like, we're not going to be doing it.

[569] Are you in control of this policy?

[570] Can you all cash it out, or you've got to talk the parents into it?

[571] We would have to talk to his parents, but they are very open to us doing what we want with it.

[572] Good.

[573] Cash it out.

[574] Use it for a down payment on a house.

[575] Good question.

[576] And you already knew that we were going to say that, I'm sure.

[577] Easy.

[578] And that's a good caveat, Dave.

[579] When people go, hey, I'm going to cancel this whole life policy, make sure that you have term life in place, 10 to 12 times your income.

[580] First.

[581] Yes, before you cancel it.

[582] You don't want any gap in coverage there.

[583] Right.

[584] That's when the devil comes for you.

[585] So, you know, you want to make sure that you're protected and you don't have any gaps and then cancel the whole life policy.

[586] Yeah.

[587] But man, it hurts.

[588] That sunk cost fallacy.

[589] Have we been paying these premiums?

[590] for decades since Jimmy was in diapers.

[591] It's somehow sentimental at that point.

[592] It's so special to us.

[593] Yeah.

[594] I don't know how they market these whole life policy so well that Gerber got involved and went, we can make some money off of these guys.

[595] Gerber's been doing it as long as I've been on the air.

[596] Yeah, but I mean, buying investment products from a baby food company.

[597] That just smells like a dirty diaper.

[598] It kind of sounds stupid to start with, doesn't it?

[599] When you just say it that way, I mean, it's just like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to buy my clothes at the transmission store.

[600] Yeah, buying any insurance as an investment product stinks, but buying it from a baby food company is next level.

[601] It's just something there.

[602] Something very interesting.

[603] Hopefully we can reverse the trend, Dave.

[604] A cute little kid on the outside of a rip -off policy, a little baby.

[605] I think that's what does it.

[606] A little cherub.

[607] A little cherub on that.

[608] A little cherub on the outside.

[609] That jar of sweet potato.

[610] Oh, my goodness.

[611] Both make me want to wharf.

[612] This is The Ramsey Show.

[613] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[614] George Camel, Ramsey Personality, host of the George Camel Show on YouTube, and co -host of the Smart Money Happy Hour.

[615] With the one and only, Rachel Cruz, he's my co -host today.

[616] Open phones at AAA -8255 -2.

[617] Austin starts this hour off in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[618] Hey, Austin.

[619] How are you?

[620] Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[621] Sure, man. What's up?

[622] Hey, so I have a couple questions.

[623] I feel like I'm in a little bit of a pickle.

[624] So just long story, I'm a registered nurse traveling right now.

[625] My wife is a stay -at -home mom.

[626] We just had a baby this year.

[627] Congratulations.

[628] Oh, thank you.

[629] I appreciate it.

[630] I got into a nursing and a seizure school this year, and I started in May. Wow.

[631] Thank you.

[632] Yeah, we're very excited.

[633] It brings on a lot of new challenges.

[634] Since we can't work for three years, it's a little bit stressful.

[635] But we have about combined about 40 grand in debt right now.

[636] I'm wondering a lot of that doesn't have any interest.

[637] I'm wondering if I should go ahead and wipe that all out right now because I'm able to with my funds.

[638] Or should I save that pay the minimum monthly payment?

[639] with no interest and save more for a school since my wife will still be staying at home and I won't have an income for three years.

[640] I can maximize my federal loans when we get to that, but obviously not having an income makes me very nervous.

[641] So you're planning on borrowing all the way through this?

[642] Yeah, I think so since I feel like my salary afterwards, I'll take care of that in one or two years.

[643] Yeah, you're making the assumption everything goes okay.

[644] yeah exactly um with emergency funds and everything but you never know what life could throw you two at the same time so yeah i'm going a little bit nervous right now yeah yeah i mean going 300k in debt i'd be really nervous um i got i gotta tell you i think your career path is phenomenal it's excellent thank you i think your i think your method of getting there really sucks.

[645] Yeah, it scares me to death.

[646] I mean, I can't, if, you know, if I was going to, as much coaching as we've done in the last 30 years about money stuff, if I was going to dial in what someone could do to make a pile of money, it would be exactly what you're doing.

[647] It's a great income stream.

[648] You're going to, you're going to make a lot of money if everything goes okay.

[649] If it doesn't go okay, you're going to have a huge Mount Everest of mess.

[650] yeah exactly you don't pass the boards something happens to your health something happens to your wife's health in the middle of this you have to stop and take care of her i mean you can have a car thing i mean anything can come along here this scares me to death so the company that you work for you're doing travel nursing yes sir where are you going to practice when you graduate do you idea?

[651] So right now my dad's also a nurse anesthetist.

[652] At his work, they offer a stipend program.

[653] So I plan on whenever his boss gets back to him, I may be eligible to do a stipend program, which gives me anywhere from probably 10 to maybe 30 grand a year to get through to work with them for.

[654] We sought to negotiate the amount of time that I'll have to do there.

[655] But it'll be for a set few years.

[656] So I have that.

[657] I also have...

[658] Are they going to pay for the...

[659] Are they going to pay for going to pay the tuition and a stipend?

[660] They're just going to pay the stipend.

[661] So my anesthesia program, I went to one of the cheapest, I picked one of the cheapest in the nation, thank God, since I'm in the state.

[662] That's good.

[663] How much?

[664] $45 ,000 for $45 ,000 for three years.

[665] Oh, excellent.

[666] Okay, man. You can cash for that.

[667] Wow.

[668] So why don't you work your butt off between now and then and pile up that much?

[669] Yeah, that's exactly what I'm planning on doing.

[670] Won't you just pay cash for it?

[671] Oh, my, yeah, it's either, I want to pay cash for that, but should I take care of the debt right now?

[672] Yes, you have any money right now?

[673] Yeah.

[674] You need $85 ,000 between now and May. Pretty much.

[675] And your wife is going to be working while you're in anesthesia school to pay the bills if you don't get the stipend.

[676] Yeah, she's, she's also a registered nurse, and she can pick up whenever she wants to send you.

[677] She's going to be doing that.

[678] That's called the price of what it takes to get your butt through.

[679] school.

[680] Can you make 85K in the next six months?

[681] You can make 85K between now and May. Yeah, well, the contract rates are really down right now, especially for pediatric, so I'm struggling to find a contract where I don't have to leave my family for so long.

[682] Are you limited to pediatric?

[683] Yeah, I just do pediatric intensive care right now.

[684] I know.

[685] Are you limited to that with your licensing?

[686] Yes.

[687] Yeah, with my experience.

[688] no not your not your licensing just your experience yeah just my experience and and your mindset so listen you need to go change the oil in cars or whatever it takes to find 85k I don't give a crap about your experience I want you to go make a big pile of money between now I may and have no debt and $45 ,000 in your pocket and a game plan for your wife to work enough for y 'all to eat while you finish this degree if you don't get the stipend and then you do this debt free you do it debt free because you're come out making 200 to 300 if you'll do this right okay aren't you yeah yeah i should come out making at least minimum probably 180 200 000 200 coming out and you'll be three before in an eye blink it's a great career field but all you're going to have to do listen here's the thing that this is this is a time that you and your wife do inconvenient things that are harsh so that you don't have to do inconvenient harsh things later.

[689] Yeah, absolutely.

[690] You pay a price to get this done, and it's going to be inconvenient.

[691] It's going to be no fun.

[692] People are going to roll their eyes and say, why didn't you just take out a student loan?

[693] Because you're an idiot people that tell you, people that tell you just look at them and say, because you're an idiot, I'm not taking out of student loan.

[694] I'm going to do this.

[695] I'm going to work my way through this.

[696] My wife's going to work.

[697] You both have nursing degrees.

[698] Go make a big old pile of money, man. Right now, real quick, crazy.

[699] Go crazy.

[700] like your life depends on this, because here's the other path.

[701] You lazily stumble in to taking on $150 ,000 in debt, and then you graduate and people say, well, you're a nurse anesthetist.

[702] You've got to have a good lifestyle.

[703] Upgrade the car, man, get the car payment, and it never ends.

[704] Yeah.

[705] And so I want you to graduate no debt, making $200 ,000 with that baby and going, we can do whatever we want.

[706] You can stay home forever, honey, if you want.

[707] I got this.

[708] 200 coming out of the gate, 300 in an eye blink.

[709] Yeah.

[710] That's amazing.

[711] Very cool.

[712] And it's not that hard.

[713] I mean, And making $45 to cover the programs, no biggie.

[714] Paying off $40.

[715] You can do that.

[716] That's $85.

[717] And the two of you roll up your sleeves.

[718] You've got great hearts, great brains, great degrees, a great direction.

[719] Lean into all of that and make this work.

[720] And if the stipend trade -off is reasonable, I'll take that stipend deal.

[721] But if it's not reasonable, if they want 10 years for $30 ,000, well, screw that.

[722] Those handcuffs ain't worth it.

[723] Not doing that.

[724] You ain't worth the squeeze, as they say.

[725] Yeah, there you go.

[726] So you've got to measure that out, see if that's worth it.

[727] But it might be easier for your wife just to work a few.

[728] Because she can work 12s.

[729] I mean, work 312s while you're in school.

[730] It's real easy, man. It's everywhere.

[731] There's a shortage of nurses, as you know, everywhere.

[732] This is the Ramsey show.

[733] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[734] Hey, good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[735] It's hitting us right now.

[736] We got travel and work.

[737] and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on my family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects and those are the things that make our life even worth living here's what i've learned when it comes to taking care of me i have to put on my oxygen mask first and that means that i have to do the things that keep me well and whole and i know that you have to do those same things too so don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[738] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at Better Help.

[739] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[740] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[741] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[742] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[743] Never skip therapy day.

[744] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[745] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[746] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[747] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[748] He has a little thing happening next week A little thing We have a book launch here It's a major, major thing Book launch next week for George Breaking Free from Broke comes out next Tuesday On the 16th And if you pre -order it You are going to get All kinds of goodies Like $100 worth of stuff Instant access to Georgia's newest talk Show me the money You'll get exclusive access To an online private event Which is a Q &A with George You're also going to get an audio book and an e -book of this book.

[749] And this book is so fun.

[750] Breaking free from broke, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress.

[751] The only downside of the book was we had to invent a new font to cover the snark.

[752] It's the snark font because George is the king of snark.

[753] I had a lot of fun writing it.

[754] And, you know, the research and the humor coming together is a beautiful thing.

[755] We got one of our first reviews on the website, Dave, because people got the e -book early, if they pre -ordered before the new year.

[756] Oh, so you can get it?

[757] Can you get it now if you get the E -Book?

[758] I think if you order past New Year, you have to wait until launch day now.

[759] But who knows?

[760] Don't ask me. I don't, you know, I don't make the, I don't call the shots.

[761] But this review is hilarious from Michael Kay.

[762] He said, Came for the Snark, stayed for the smarts.

[763] Quite possibly the funniest and easiest financial book to read.

[764] Once you start, you won't be able to put it down.

[765] I wasn't able to.

[766] You'll laugh out loud the whole time while learning.

[767] This book is a must read for everyone, especially young adults.

[768] The amount of data -back knowledge this book provides while being such a joy to read is staggering.

[769] Michael, what a kind review.

[770] Michael, the checks in the mail.

[771] That's an ad.

[772] That's beautiful.

[773] I know.

[774] It's a great ad.

[775] Very kind of it.

[776] I couldn't have said it as well myself.

[777] I'm glad he said it.

[778] And you know, when you're writing a book, you hope all of these things are set out.

[779] That's exactly what you set out to do.

[780] That's what I set out to do.

[781] Can I make a really easy to read fun financial book?

[782] That's the financial literacy you never had.

[783] But it's so research backed because there is.

[784] There's a ton of research in it.

[785] I could have jokes all day, but I wanted to make sure it was ironclad with data so it's not just my opinion and uh it's in there 130 sources so pre -order before the 15th and you get $100 worth of stuff when you buy a $20 book not a bad deal at all breaking free from broke by george camel at ramsysolutions dot com hit the store and you're going to get the free bonus items go ahead and get the book now um george i have bought Sharon was making fun of me because i ordered a new book last night you love books i love big reader i have bought so many books I have read some wacky books in the past three weeks I've read.

[786] In the past four weeks, I've read three full -size hardbacks.

[787] And, I mean, just strange stuff.

[788] And then I, what ends up happening with me is, and there were all three good books, actually, all three of them.

[789] One of them was Michael Esther, Easter, who did the comfort crisis.

[790] He's got a new one called Scarcity Brink.

[791] And he was on the show to promote it and gave me the book.

[792] and I just now read it.

[793] He's become a friend of ours now.

[794] Yeah, and he's, the book's really good.

[795] It's talk about research base, but yeah, and then I read a couple of others that are just odd books, but I knew odd people that needed to read them that were friends of mine.

[796] And so I'm buying all of these books and sending them to people now.

[797] Yes.

[798] And Sharon's like, would you quit buying books?

[799] You're in the book business.

[800] And I'm like, no, I'm in the book business.

[801] That's why I love books.

[802] You have a whole publishing house that you love books so much.

[803] I own a publishing company, so shut up.

[804] Yes, I'm not going to, of course I'm going to buy books.

[805] George's book only 20 bucks it's a great deal hey it helps us if you pre -order it helps George hit the bestseller list which is a marketing touch we would appreciate you pre -ordering it if you're going to get it plus we that's why we bribe you and give you a hundred dollars worth of stuff extra to pre -order it between now and next Monday is to reach new people so they see this on the list and they go must be a good book all these people bought it and I believe it is so I love that you know a guy holding up on an orange cover holding up words that's George That's all it takes.

[806] I'm pushing back against the toxic money culture, Dave.

[807] That was the idea of the...

[808] I saw the flex.

[809] Yeah, we hit my muscles.

[810] You can see the muscles.

[811] They're covered in denim.

[812] I don't want to scare anyone off.

[813] Don't want anybody to be freaked out by the physique here.

[814] All right.

[815] Alexis is in Columbia, South Carolina.

[816] Hi, Alexis.

[817] How are you?

[818] Hi, Dave.

[819] Hi, George.

[820] How are all doing?

[821] Better than we deserve.

[822] What's up in your world?

[823] Nothing much.

[824] I am trying to decide.

[825] I have an HVAC that I need to replace.

[826] I just met with this house last year, and it's like 40 years old, so it needs to be replaced.

[827] And so my question is, do I want to max up my Roth area this year, but I also know that the HVAC is going to be around $12 ,000 to $15 ,000 to replace.

[828] And so my question is, do I stop the hold on maxing out the Roth array and build savings or continue to do both?

[829] How much debt do you have?

[830] I don't have any debt besides my mortgage.

[831] Good.

[832] How much money do you have saved?

[833] $9 ,000.

[834] That's your emergency fund?

[835] Yes.

[836] Okay.

[837] What's your household income?

[838] Per month or annual?

[839] Either.

[840] So, $5 ,300 a month.

[841] Take home?

[842] Take home.

[843] That is take home.

[844] How long have you been doing that?

[845] just for the past year okay so that's where you got 9 ,000 and got rid of the debt and got out right but the furnace is running it's just old right it works okay so if you save $2 ,000 a month for three months you'd have enough for the furnace okay and did I do that right why was that wrong that's right 2 ,000 a month you're right for three months what is that wrong or can you do that um so with the 5300 3 ,700 goes towards my mortgage and bills and then I put a thousand savings oh mortgage and bills oh okay how much is your mortgage my mortgage is $1 ,400 okay all right that's better I feel better where is the other I mean you got a whole 2 ,300 worth of bills um well the way that I budget my finances you know Okay, I'd take a good look at that budget and see what can we cut right now.

[846] And if there's anything, you know, that feels frivolous that we can cut temporarily, I would do that to create the margin to save up for this HVAC.

[847] Yeah, and then just be systematically putting 15 % of your household income into retirement.

[848] But if you've got an emergency fund, you ought to be able to save up some money while you have an emergency fund.

[849] It might take you four months.

[850] I don't know.

[851] Does the HVAC have four months left in it?

[852] Sure.

[853] I think so.

[854] Yeah, it's just making noises like its own Christmas story or something.

[855] Right?

[856] And I would also get some bids because $15 ,000 feels like a lot, Dave.

[857] You've replaced some H -Fax in your day.

[858] I don't know what they cost now.

[859] Depends on what it is, yeah.

[860] But.

[861] Yeah, I always get two or three bids and learn something when you're buying something that expensive.

[862] And, you know, try to find a friend that knows people in the business and you can teach, that can teach you about this whole process.

[863] and, you know, all that kind of stuff so that you can keep from, you know, maybe it's $12 ,000 instead of 15.

[864] That would be a cool thing.

[865] That's a big difference.

[866] Yeah, and maybe you don't need the Bentley of furnaces.

[867] Maybe you just need the Chevrolet of furnaces.

[868] I don't know they made those.

[869] Chevy's in the furnace business.

[870] I'm just making this up right here.

[871] I do that pretty regularly.

[872] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -25.

[873] So, George, one of the things that she can do with the every dollar budget is to sit down with the app.

[874] and usually when someone has broken things out the way she has, she's got only two buckets.

[875] 3 ,700 is my expenses, including her $1 ,400 payment, right?

[876] And then I'm free after that.

[877] And that might be true.

[878] It might be true.

[879] But I would rather you just say, all right, I'm going to make sure I take care of the necessity of life, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, utilities right there on the budgeting app.

[880] And then go, okay, I got to take care of my insurance over here.

[881] two.

[882] All right.

[883] What else have I got?

[884] And you just keep looking at and go, all right.

[885] Now, where is the rest of this going?

[886] Because every time someone sits down and does a budget, particularly in every dollar budget, you always have this sense of where's the rest of it going.

[887] It's a little mystery.

[888] I make that much.

[889] Where did it disappear to?

[890] I don't have that many bills.

[891] And John Maxwell, our friend, says that a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[892] And so when you start doing a budget, you will feel, you will have the sensation as if you've got to raise every time, every time.

[893] And I can tell you're not doing a detail budget because you've got it broken down into just two buckets.

[894] Huge buckets.

[895] And I love every dollar because you can create sinking funds so I can start saving up $1 ,000 a month for that repair and it will automatically set it aside for me, which is great.

[896] Absolutely.

[897] This is The Ramsey Show.

[898] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt -free stage.

[899] Raymond and Lana are with us.

[900] Hey, guys, how are you?

[901] Better than we deserve.

[902] I hear you.

[903] Welcome.

[904] Welcome to Nashville.

[905] And where do you guys live?

[906] South Haven, Michigan, which is near Kalamazoo in southwest Michigan.

[907] And I think there's like a football game tonight.

[908] There might be.

[909] And you're here instead.

[910] We're here instead.

[911] Wow.

[912] Wow.

[913] Here to do a debt -free scream.

[914] How much debt have you paid off?

[915] 128 ,000 in two years good for you and your range of income during that two years 90 to 120 ,000 or so cool what do you all do for a living special ed teacher and I'm a behavioral specialist in the same school system awesome very cool what kind of debt was the 128 mostly mortgages and how our car payments and a little credit card paid off your house two houses two of them yeah wow I'm looking at weird people yeah look at you no debt in the world anywhere of any kind exactly how does that feel wonderful yeah baby step seven wow look at you way to go way to go so what happened two years ago that put you on this ramsie journey well covid kind of hit us and then we kind of started selling things in the house we sold the whole basement we just put that on ebay marketplace and everything and we just sold sold sold people were coming up and down our driveway every night night.

[916] Our next -door neighbor thought we were selling drugs.

[917] But it was my brother, so he knew we weren't selling drugs.

[918] And we live in Michigan, so there was just a cornfield between me and my brother.

[919] So we're out in the middle of nowhere.

[920] So you sold stuff like crazy.

[921] But what caused the switch to flip to cause you to do all this?

[922] Well, we were looking at our finances, and we figured we could retire.

[923] We couldn't retire until we were 67.

[924] And that didn't appeal to us at all.

[925] so actually we just retired we both just retired oh wow wow she paid off everything and retired how old are you i'm 61 59 all right wow you beat that 67 over the head way to go yeah we should go so how'd you get connected up with us podcasts and and i prayed we were praying about it and every time we prayed the name dave ramsie just kept coming up we couldn't go anywhere without someone mentioning Dave Ramsey.

[926] Wow.

[927] That's a little scary.

[928] That's a haunting prayer right there.

[929] So, yeah, we really felt like we need to open the book.

[930] Okay.

[931] There we go.

[932] And game on.

[933] And you know, this makes sense.

[934] Let's try this.

[935] Yeah.

[936] What are the properties worth?

[937] About each property is about $250 ,000.

[938] Boy, a guy.

[939] How much in your next egg?

[940] So we have about $500 ,000 in retirement.

[941] All right.

[942] So you're millionaires.

[943] Yeah.

[944] Look at you.

[945] Baby steps, millionaires.

[946] Yep.

[947] Just like that.

[948] Who would have thunk it?

[949] Yep, yep.

[950] People were making fun of us because we're driving old cars and the hubcaps fell off a raised car.

[951] He was driving a 2009 Malibu and he wasn't going to replace them.

[952] So people were laughing and he wore his shoes till they had holes in them.

[953] I wasn't quite that good.

[954] Ray, you're just cheap.

[955] He was cheap.

[956] I was cheap.

[957] It's like you upgraded to the shoes.

[958] I don't see any holes.

[959] No holes.

[960] But yeah, we had eight different.

[961] different jobs in addition to our teaching jobs.

[962] Wow.

[963] So we just went out and really worked hard.

[964] And, you know, if somebody needed help in a restaurant, I would, you know, wait tables.

[965] If somebody needed to help bartending, Lana would bartend.

[966] Yeah.

[967] And we just rolled with that.

[968] And then we started doing side businesses.

[969] We both have a boat.

[970] Well, we have a boat, and we've had it for a number of years.

[971] And I would wax the boat and paint the bottom of our own boat.

[972] And during COVID, you know, other people need to.

[973] that service is done so we started doing that we started a nice little business now and we're going to use that like you say to help finance until we get social security we're going to be washing and waxing boats so well why not we got a side business so we're semi -retired really it's not glamorous but it's yeah it's a lot of fun good money too it's good money yeah right and steady work and steady work and it's funny we'll be washing a boat and a slip and then two other people will come over and say can you come wash ours and then we pick up new clients that way free marketing right there yeah it is no way to go you guys way to go so what's the first big thing you're going to do now that you're a hundred percent dead free to celebrate um we're going to come to nashville and do the debt free stream oh wait who knew yeah we listen to those podcasts sometimes eight hours we're in the barns alone while we were washing and waxing bolts it would be a beautiful day our friends are out on lake michigan sending us pictures of their toes in the sand and drinking my margaritas and saying where are you guys so we would listen to the podcast the podcast was our lifeline wow and we really uh said we're you know we just hoped we could be here one day and now you get to have your toes in the sand yeah living like no one else that's right and be generous and we started with baby step one and we paid off that smallest debt and then that debt rolled into other debts and and as we paid them off we had more money to pay the bigger debts and then pretty soon we're living on only 25 % income and everything was going to debts.

[974] And then even after we paid off our last mortgage, we continue living on 25%.

[975] Wow.

[976] And put all that into retirement.

[977] 4 -1Ks and 403Bs.

[978] Load it up.

[979] Yeah.

[980] Loaded it up at the end.

[981] Way to go.

[982] If you had one piece of advice to somebody listening, they're under the boat waxing out there trying to get through it, what's the one thing you tell them about this whole process that you learned?

[983] You can do it.

[984] You can do it don't give up stay dedicated we started late you know we were 55 when we started and we we thought we were doing okay and we were dave ramsie ish and we we sat down and did a budget and thought whoa we are not where we should be so you can do it you can do it you get things paid off a lot quicker than you think yeah two years went by fast it went five fast and now you're free and now we're free yeah i love it i'm proud of y 'all congratulations thank you thank you Thank you.

[985] Very, very well done.

[986] What a great story.

[987] I love that.

[988] I want everyone out there who's in their 50s to go, when can we actually retire?

[989] And if it's not when you want to, it's time to make some changes.

[990] And you guys are living proof.

[991] It took two years and you turned this whole thing around.

[992] Gazelle and fence.

[993] You turn the boat around.

[994] Two years.

[995] That was for you, Dave.

[996] That's good.

[997] I like that.

[998] Very well done.

[999] All right, Raymond and Lana.

[1000] Hey, we've got the Total Money Makeover for you, the Baby Steps Millionaire's book for you.

[1001] You're probably in there somewhere.

[1002] And financial peace membership, you can give those away or use them or however you want to do it.

[1003] Those are gift to you to say thanks for coming all the way from Kalamazoo to do your debt -free scream.

[1004] $128 ,000 paid off in two years, make a 90 to 120.

[1005] Count it down.

[1006] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1007] Three, two, one.

[1008] We're debt -free.

[1009] Something happens, George, when you are.

[1010] identify a goal that is bigger than people's opinions.

[1011] Ooh.

[1012] When you identify a goal, I want to retire by 5960, not 67, and I don't really care what you think.

[1013] I'm going to go wax boats.

[1014] I'm going to weigh tables, 10 bar.

[1015] I'm going to sell stuff so much stuff out of the side of the door that my brother thinks we're doing drugs over here.

[1016] I mean, you just don't care what people think.

[1017] It's a superpower.

[1018] You can do all kinds of crap.

[1019] It is a freaking superpower.

[1020] I mean, it's amazing what can happen when you're willing to do anything to get something you never had.

[1021] And Raymond and Lawn are just living proof.

[1022] They just busted their butts.

[1023] And this wasn't a 10 -year journey.

[1024] It was a two -year journey.

[1025] I could do anything for two years.

[1026] And I have at times.

[1027] Oof.

[1028] The price, you got to pay a price to win.

[1029] Nobody accidentally wins.

[1030] You know, and they didn't accidentally win.

[1031] They leaned in hard.

[1032] They went hard, man. You know what?

[1033] They're completely done.

[1034] What happens is you accidentally.

[1035] paid for, $250 ,000 house.

[1036] Live this mediocre life for 20 years where you're broke.

[1037] And all it takes is two years of intentionality to clean up the mess.

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] Man, they're heroes.

[1040] Absolutely heroes.

[1041] Fabulous couple.

[1042] But that's what happens.

[1043] All of a sudden, you know, you get dialed in, you go, hubcaps?

[1044] I don't need hubcaps.

[1045] Who cares?

[1046] Upcaps are for you.

[1047] They're not for me. I mean, I'm good.

[1048] I'll get me some hubcaps later.

[1049] And I'll get a different car, too.

[1050] So there.

[1051] Hello.

[1052] This is the Ramsey.

[1053] show.

[1054] Dave Ramsey here.

[1055] George Camel is my co -host, Ramsey Personality.

[1056] Open phones at AAA 8255 -225.

[1057] We're glad you're with us.

[1058] Thanks for hanging out.

[1059] Zena is next.

[1060] She's in Los Angeles.

[1061] Hi, Zena.

[1062] Welcome to the show.

[1063] How can we help?

[1064] Yes.

[1065] Thank you guys for having me on.

[1066] Sure.

[1067] My question is, me and my husband just got out of debt.

[1068] We'll be completely death -free by December of this year.

[1069] Congratulations.

[1070] Thank you.

[1071] Wait a minute.

[1072] You got out of debt or you will be out of debt?

[1073] We will be out of debt by December of this year.

[1074] 12 more months?

[1075] Yes.

[1076] So my question is we want to open a media company because we want to start working for ourselves, but we're not sure which route to take because everybody's been telling us either to take a business phone.

[1077] And I don't want to do that because we're just getting out of debt.

[1078] And I don't want to go back into it.

[1079] It's stupid.

[1080] Don't do what everybody says on anything.

[1081] Okay.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] So what, what kind of a media company are you starting?

[1084] Well, we want to be able to make our own movies because I write a lot of stories because I'm disabled.

[1085] And so I just am not a great author.

[1086] So we figured making it into a film will be better because everybody's enjoyed it, but I'm not a great writer.

[1087] Why do you need a media company in order to write a film script?

[1088] Could you not sell the script?

[1089] People have told me I could, but we want to just make it into an actual film.

[1090] Okay, I'm telling you, there's companies that will buy the script if it's good, and they'll make it into a movie, and they'll cover the production costs versus you, you know, going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to do this is a bad plan.

[1091] I had no idea about that.

[1092] Yeah, I would start there and just start doing your research on this industry.

[1093] and get, I mean, you're in L .A., get connected with people who are in this industry.

[1094] And that's going to be your best bet to take the next step.

[1095] But I don't think you need to start a media company today, and you definitely should not do it with any debt.

[1096] Okay.

[1097] What do you do for living now, hon?

[1098] I'm disabled, so my husband's a breadwinner.

[1099] I do try to do some side gigs on the side, like online, like side hustles.

[1100] But it's been a struggle because we got hit really hard at the pandemic, and that's how we got into that.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] What is your husband make?

[1103] Right now he's making about $16 ,000 a year.

[1104] $16 ,000?

[1105] How are you guys surviving?

[1106] Well, we got lucky getting this rental unit, which we're only paying $450 a month for.

[1107] What is he doing for work?

[1108] He's essentially taking care of me because my health is not the greatest.

[1109] I always need somebody 24 -7.

[1110] Who is paying him?

[1111] I am in this program called in -home support services, and they're paying him to be around me 24 -7.

[1112] But they're paying him minimum wage to do this.

[1113] Yes, yeah.

[1114] This is a problem.

[1115] It's not sustainable.

[1116] It's not, but he...

[1117] If you have to have care 24 -7, how are you able to make a film?

[1118] Hello?

[1119] Yes, I'm here, sorry.

[1120] That's okay.

[1121] If you have to have care 24 -7, how are you able to make a film?

[1122] That's true.

[1123] I try to do what I can at home, though, because I have moments where I can do stuff sitting down.

[1124] Yeah, I mean, I'm not questioning you being lazy.

[1125] That's not what I'm saying.

[1126] But I'm saying if you're so limited, you have to have 24 -hour, 24 -7 care.

[1127] I don't think you're going to be making a film.

[1128] unless I'm missing something.

[1129] No, you're not.

[1130] You're right.

[1131] Okay.

[1132] So I think George is probably on to something.

[1133] Let's start writing and see if we can write a script that we can get someone to buy the script.

[1134] And I think that'll be helpful.

[1135] And long term, we've got to think about your husband's career and your care and how we can accentuate those and create more income for the household.

[1136] And it's not a media company.

[1137] And it's certainly not borrowing money to go into debt.

[1138] to start a media company.

[1139] We definitely don't want to do that.

[1140] Kyle is with us in Gainesville, Florida.

[1141] Hi, Kyle.

[1142] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1143] Hello.

[1144] Hey, what's up?

[1145] I'm looking for some expert opinion, I guess.

[1146] Well, we'll call one.

[1147] No, I'm kidding.

[1148] How can we help?

[1149] So my wife, she's been staying home for the past three years with the kid.

[1150] And she's got some retirement accounts from when she was working.

[1151] with local government and she's been saying that we should cash them out to pay off some stuff and I'm a CPA so I'm always thinking about the tax implications of that and early penalty distribution, oh, early distribution penalties and things like that.

[1152] Exactly, exactly.

[1153] Just trying to get an outside perspective from it.

[1154] Yeah, what's your household income?

[1155] 95.

[1156] Okay.

[1157] So cashing this out is going to cost you 30 % plus a 10 % penalty, right?

[1158] Right.

[1159] Yeah, so that's a 40, I'm going to borrow money at 40 % of, interest honey to pay off my debts right I don't think so how much debt do you have we've got about 38 ,000 not including the mortgage okay and you make 95 I think you're I think you just get on a tight budget and let's roll up our sleeves to get this paid for as quick as you can because you don't want borrow money a 40 % interest you knew that before you called right oh I did I'm like I said this is an outside perspective He's just going to play back the tape.

[1160] You're just trying to win the argument, and you did.

[1161] Way to go, Kyle.

[1162] I think you need to show her a plan as how we're going to pay this debt off with future income and current savings and selling stuff.

[1163] Let's get on a budget.

[1164] Get on the every dollar budget.

[1165] Get the app up tonight.

[1166] Y 'all get it out and look at it.

[1167] Lay it out there on your website.

[1168] I mean, on your desktop.

[1169] Show her this is what we're going to do.

[1170] But borrowing money at 40 % interest is never a good plan.

[1171] and that's the equivalent of doing that when you take that much in penalties.

[1172] You give almost half your money to the government to cash us out early.

[1173] No, let's roll that old retirement plan into a good IRA and some good mutual funds and try to make a little money with our money.

[1174] Say, honey, I love the spirit of you wanting to become debt -free so quickly, but here's a better way to do it.

[1175] Beverly Sills famous quote, there's no shortcut to any place is worth going.

[1176] There's a price to be paid to win, and you don't want to make things hard on purpose.

[1177] purpose, but we don't want to cash out retirement.

[1178] The only time we cash out retirement is to avoid foreclosure or bankruptcy or, you know, something extreme like that.

[1179] But it's not to pay off debt.

[1180] It's certainly not to buy crap, that kind of stuff, because you're going to get hammered.

[1181] You get hit with your tax rate plus a 10 % penalty.

[1182] It's ridiculous.

[1183] It's horrible.

[1184] And using any kind of debt on top of that to, you know, people taking out HELOCs or the 401k loan to pay off debt, using one kind of debt to pay off other debt, it doesn't make sense.

[1185] And so our plan always points back to using current savings, stuff you can sell, future income, that's the best path to do it.

[1186] Yeah, and just crank down your stinking lifestyle and get in attack mode.

[1187] That's the hard part.

[1188] I think people truly don't want to sacrifice, yet they're willing to pay 40 % interest by...

[1189] We're looking for a shortcut.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] Looking for a shortcut, so I don't have to tell myself no. Do it the hard way the first time.

[1192] Yeah.

[1193] Otherwise, it's called a stupid tax, and you call us after you make the mistake.

[1194] Well, I mean, learning, we all, part of growing up, part of being an adult is just learning to say no to yourself and to others i mean and by the way no is a complete sentence you know it's the ancient word no one says it anymore if you say no to people now they just freak out hurts their feelings oh well they're they're they're mad at you i mean you're some kind of evil monster you know you suggested that i be denied i'm just trying to live my truth dave yeah you suggested that i don't how dare you suggest a no in my life i'll help you with a big old no it begins with an end ends with an oh oh just like that a big old no you just put your tongue towards the roof of your mouth release air give your lips a little kissing motion it sounds just like this no i think that's universal every culture understands that one no my dog does shake your head uh -uh no no it's a good word but you can't say no to your dog dave i say no to a Dave.

[1195] Even Dave gets a no. So, I mean, come on.

[1196] Hey, that's called controlling yourself, you know, and not picking on Kyle by any stretch, but just everybody out there.

[1197] I mean, if you don't get the concept of no, you're going to struggle the rest of your dadgum life with every part of your life.

[1198] No, I can't eat that dadgum chocolate you brought in here a while ago.

[1199] That's right.

[1200] I actually tried to offer Dave some chocolate during the break.

[1201] You did.

[1202] This guy.

[1203] You eat what he preaches.

[1204] child no it's how i keep my physique i offer dave chocolates no no get away from me george no it's how you do it right there this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show we help people build well do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships George Camel Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[1205] The phone number is AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[1206] Melanie is with us in Philadelphia.

[1207] I'm Melanie.

[1208] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1209] Hi, so excited to be here.

[1210] Thank you for taking my call.

[1211] We're honored.

[1212] How can we help?

[1213] First of all, let me just say, George, I'm reading your book.

[1214] It's super awesome.

[1215] Oh, thank you so much.

[1216] Appreciate that.

[1217] Yeah, no problem.

[1218] So my question is, so my husband and I are in babysat two, I'm working to a full -time job.

[1219] He's a schoolteacher and also has a training, like a personal training gig on the side that he does.

[1220] He rents his own facility, but he's had it for four years.

[1221] And my concern is that he really hasn't made any profit off of the business.

[1222] He makes just enough to just pay the bills in the business.

[1223] At what point do I have that conversation that it may not be worth his time?

[1224] in the business just because it's just not bringing in enough revenue.

[1225] Anything that doesn't make money is called a hobby.

[1226] Right.

[1227] It's not a side hustle.

[1228] It's a hobby.

[1229] Mm -hmm.

[1230] He likes work.

[1231] He likes personal training so much.

[1232] He's willing to do it for free.

[1233] Almost.

[1234] I mean, he makes some money, but not as much as I think he should because he's been doing it for about four years now.

[1235] You're changing your tune in the middle of the call, which is it?

[1236] How much does he really make?

[1237] Net profit on the thing.

[1238] Probably it varies every month, so it can range anywhere from $1 ,500 to like $2 ,500 a month.

[1239] Profit.

[1240] Oh, well.

[1241] You said after he pays his bills, he's not making much, if anything.

[1242] He's not.

[1243] What bills has he got?

[1244] The rental on this place?

[1245] Yeah, just the rental on the place, and then he knows he has like that his utilities are included with the rent.

[1246] in the facility and then he has like I know his internet or something that he pays okay so he's getting 1 ,500 to 2 ,500 in what's the rent uh 1 ,600 so it almost takes everything so if he doesn't make 1 ,600 in a month he loses money right okay well I I don't think it's unreasonable to sit down tonight and say honey we've got to look at this as a business and and we know need to look and see what we've got to do with your pricing and the number of clients that you have to make what you're doing over there profitable because it's not okay that you're spending all this time over there and potentially even losing money right so let's get let's get out the numbers let's get out the numbers and run a P &L on this thing and just sit there tonight and run a spreadsheet on it how long has you been doing it um he's had this place now for four years okay well let's go back You know, for the last 12 months, pull the revenue and then put in $1 ,600 a month, and then put in the Internet fee a month, and let's see if we've really got a profit or not.

[1247] Figure out what is hourly wages on this.

[1248] Yeah, and my guess is you can go out for a other gym.

[1249] You know, you made $500 and you spent $600 hours over there.

[1250] Right.

[1251] You might get a dollar hour.

[1252] Come on, man. So as a business owner, how do you, like at what point do you say, like, it's just not viable anymore?

[1253] how much time he's supposed to be like an adult and stuff he teaches children yeah yeah he does what does he teach uh health insid okay and how how how how what what age children uh anywhere from kindergarten to high school okay and so we would assume that they know how to do basic addition of subtraction yes and he should mm -hmm if he's teaching i mean really yeah i we're he needs you know you need to sit down with him and say i i need you to look at this through the eyes of a business and let's look at it for a few minutes and let's see if you think this is worthwhile but i don't you don't need to tell him he needs to he ought to be able to look a logical adult male female should be able to come to a conclusion on this without his wife or husband telling them i mean you ought to be able look at it and go i'm making a dollar hour no that doesn't cut it, you know.

[1254] I'm supposed to be providing for my family during this time.

[1255] No, no. And you guys are in debt.

[1256] And so I think that's a part of this equation is we need to actually make money right now.

[1257] So here's the thing.

[1258] Anytime we're in a business situation with our entree leadership clients on a side hustle or a small business idea, we do one of a couple of things.

[1259] One is we have to ask ourselves, what can we change to make this viable?

[1260] And if the answer is there's not a change that will make it viable, then it's time to shut it down okay i mean i think you guys are going to look at this and figure out i think you're going to look at this and figure out you put eighteen thousand dollars or what is 19 000 and rent into it last year you know and he brought in 19 500 bucks i think that's what you're going to find yeah i think so too and and you know so and then how many hours you spend over there divide that into 500 and you look at him go honey what part of this is smart none right right so You know, so we, something has to change.

[1261] This is not okay.

[1262] We have to raise our prices, increase the number of clients, both, or we've got to say we're not doing this anymore.

[1263] Okay.

[1264] Yep, we're going to have that conversation.

[1265] I appreciate your opinion on that.

[1266] I guess the other thing is, you know, do you have a basement?

[1267] We do.

[1268] Why don't you do it down there?

[1269] Yeah.

[1270] $1 ,600 a head per month instantly.

[1271] Mm -hmm.

[1272] Another thing people do now is they'll go to your house and do the work out there.

[1273] Oh, yeah.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] And the other thing he can do is just go work at a gym that already has personal training and they hire him and pay him money.

[1276] So he doesn't have any of the overhead.

[1277] Yeah.

[1278] So there's a lot of options.

[1279] Part of the equation on the business model may be getting rid of this rent.

[1280] And suddenly, yeah, you're doing in -home work and in your homework.

[1281] In other people's homes for them, you know, personal training, you go visit gym, then you go visit George and you do whatever.

[1282] That's the dream.

[1283] And they pay you money, you know.

[1284] And I have a gym in my house.

[1285] We did that for a long time.

[1286] And so my wife made fun of me. She said, you know, the guy's counting for you.

[1287] But that's what you need.

[1288] You can't count to 10.

[1289] It's what you needed in that moment.

[1290] Paying that guy big money for counting.

[1291] No, I'm paying him for accountability.

[1292] There's that.

[1293] But I can count to 10.

[1294] I already can do one, two.

[1295] But you need a guy.

[1296] yelling at you other than the guy in your head.

[1297] We don't need anybody yelling at me, but we need someone just, I know if he's going to come over there, then I'm going to do the workout, right?

[1298] Otherwise, I might find my little butt on the sofa.

[1299] You know, that could happen.

[1300] And so that's what, you know, it's what a personal trainer does sometimes.

[1301] We know what, we can Google the workout.

[1302] We hire the personal trainer because we need that level of handholding right now.

[1303] Yeah, I mean, that's okay.

[1304] Yeah.

[1305] So, I mean, do it, he could, he could provide the service like George is saying, charge even more to come to people's homes in person and or in your basement and or if you're going to keep the location you've got to make the location having the location needs to cause you to make more money than not having the location would have you to make I think you're going to get rid of this location at a minimum this is the Ramsey show George Camel Ramsey personality is my co -host today Stephanie is is in Indianapolis.

[1306] Hi, Stephanie.

[1307] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1308] Hi, thanks so much for taking the call.

[1309] Sure.

[1310] My husband and I have a question.

[1311] We bought our first home three and a half years ago.

[1312] Got a really great interest rate at the time.

[1313] The house was appraised at $2 .50 before we put on a new roof, and we're having to replace a furnace.

[1314] And that's part of our frustration.

[1315] It's an older home almost 100 years.

[1316] And at one point, I suppose there's a tipping point somewhere where we're, You keep putting money in the old house and keep the good interest rate and just get a little more equity out of it or A broader picture.

[1317] We don't want to maybe be here forever a little more land a little newer house maybe on a hundred years old And we're just wondering how much long should we stay We can't get to the aesthetics part of renovating.

[1318] So it's just maintaining the house which we can do it, but it's just frustrating And it's like, okay, at what point is it maybe they're cute those historics are cute, but they're a pain in the butt.

[1319] They don't build them like they used to too, thank God.

[1320] Oh, gosh.

[1321] So, yeah, I've done a bunch of those.

[1322] They're very interesting.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] I think you're done.

[1325] Well, I feel done now because I got willied out the furnace that we're replacing at some point, hopefully this week.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] I think you're done.

[1328] It was giving out carbon monoxide.

[1329] I'm like, oh, my word.

[1330] You could die.

[1331] So what's wrong with selling it?

[1332] um i'm just i i don't want to necessarily move and then move again in three years so it'd be nice to uh where you're going to move that you got to move in three years who said you had to just move just don't want to move up in house and then feel like i have to move up again you know i'd like to move into a house that's the idea more the ideal uh not that there's a perfect house but let me help you with this you thought that was ideal when you moved into it no this one wasn't but it was a blessing for where we were at for a first time homeowner.

[1333] The house has been a blessing.

[1334] Okay.

[1335] How long have you owned?

[1336] I guess it's a money.

[1337] It's a reach.

[1338] Like to get the house we won.

[1339] It's a little bit of a reach.

[1340] So don't reach.

[1341] Just buy a house that's not a hundred years old and not having to screw with it all time.

[1342] Okay.

[1343] That don't feel like a dream home compared to this.

[1344] This idea that you're going to buy something that automatically is going to be what you want for 10 years.

[1345] It's not.

[1346] There's no automatic because life changes.

[1347] Things shift.

[1348] Your needs, your dreams.

[1349] Everything changes.

[1350] And you're going to move again.

[1351] You don't have to have to move every three years but um but you also don't have to reach to something you can't afford it either so what will this house sell for uh probably around two well best can be best case scenarios 260 and you've owned it how long three and a half years okay all right you have no capital gains on it and you sell it and buy the next property and uh what's your household income uh this coming year it'll be a hundred five to ten at least.

[1352] Well, you can definitely make a move.

[1353] What's left on the mortgage?

[1354] About $150.

[1355] Okay.

[1356] So you're going to have $100 ,000 equity, give or take, coming out of there and go buy you something else.

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] And I know, Dave, she was worried about the, she said we got a nice, low interest rate so that she doesn't want to let go of that, which is a problem a lot of people are facing out there.

[1359] Look, you either got the furnace and the roof and all the crap falling down around you, or you got the interest rate.

[1360] You got to decide.

[1361] I mean, there's always a trade -off.

[1362] And so you got the hassle of moving And not going to get to buy what you want Well, of course you're not going to buy what you want You know Things always change So it's up to you But I You know When you call me and all you can talk about It's all the money you've spent on the thing You're done You're done So stick a fork in it Move on You know that's it And you can always refinance later If rates go down You're not stuck with that rate forever Date the rate marry the house Get a good house and don't worry about the rate, rate will come down when it comes down and refinance.

[1363] Then you're fine.

[1364] You date the rate and marry the house.

[1365] And most people fall on the Ramsey Baby Steps, Dave.

[1366] We found pay off their home in seven years.

[1367] You're not stuck, even if you had that interest rate, you might have it for seven years.

[1368] Pay the dang thing off, upgrading cash on the next one, and you'll be okay.

[1369] Lean into the process here.

[1370] Karen is with us in Jacksonville, Florida.

[1371] Hi, Karen.

[1372] How are you?

[1373] Hi, Dave.

[1374] Hey, what's up?

[1375] I'm doing well.

[1376] It's an honor to speak to you.

[1377] You too.

[1378] can we help?

[1379] Well, my husband and I have actually gone through Financial Peace University and were doing really well.

[1380] We, as of 2022, we were, you know, had a fully funded business safeguard account.

[1381] We had our emergency fund funded.

[1382] We had no debt other than our house.

[1383] And at that time, my husband got a not so good medical diagnosis.

[1384] So that set us back that year.

[1385] And then ultimately he decided to make a step into a profession that he wanted to be in and that essentially cut our income almost in half for now.

[1386] So he's doing, he's doing much better with that and moving forward, progressing forward.

[1387] But my question is, as a result of those two things, we had to, you know, tap into those safeguard accounts and pretty much depleted most of them and now we've got some credit card debt we have some stock that is not in any kind of retirement account so my question to you is do I sell that stock and pay that a little bit of credit card debt that we do have now or should I let that stock fit and just continue to not accumulate any more credit card debt but you know just make payments on that well what happens next time what happens next time next time there's a bump in the road and you land on dad gum credit card again when are you going to stop this foolishness well um i mean we were able to to do quite well for you know a while and yeah until you didn't one until you start living on credit cards again well we didn't really live on them i mean yeah you did you bought crap you couldn't afford to buy well it was more monthly things that we already had an obligation for because we weren't meeting our monthly budget because of that.

[1388] So when you use the stock to pay off the credit cards and the next time you go on one of these adventures where you don't meet the monthly obligations and you lean on credit cards, what are you going to do then?

[1389] Well, I would hope we wouldn't be back in this position.

[1390] I would hope you wouldn't have been here this time.

[1391] I'm not going to give you permission to say what you did was okay.

[1392] What you did was not okay.

[1393] It was a really bad, dumb plan.

[1394] And if you're going to use every time something comes along to get yourself back into credit card debt, I can't help you.

[1395] Because you've used up your stock then.

[1396] So if I tell you to cash out this stock and then you go do this again, you're screwed, girl.

[1397] You follow me?

[1398] Yeah, I guess this was kind of a one -time.

[1399] No, it's not.

[1400] A one -time fig, though.

[1401] No, it's not.

[1402] Always life's going to bring you something.

[1403] It's always going to be something coming up.

[1404] until you decide no matter what.

[1405] Let me tell you when the time is we're going to use a credit card at the Ramsey's.

[1406] Never, under any circumstances.

[1407] We'll sell everything in sight, including the dog and three of the grandkids.

[1408] We will never again go into a credit card debt, ever under any circumstances, period.

[1409] Nothing will cause that to happen.

[1410] We will be riding a bicycle instead of driving a car, but we won't have debt ever.

[1411] see until you get there kiddo you're going to go back again you're going to go back again you're going to go back again because there's always something comes up because there's a crack and as long as there's a crack in the thing the water's going to leak through so yes you should cash out the stock and you should pay off the credit cards but you have got to the two of you've got to sit down and go we flunked financial peace university we flunked the class so we have got to reset and draw a line the sand and say, never, under any freaking circumstances, are we ever going to have a credit card in our house?

[1412] Cut it up, close the accounts, and then you won't have the opportunity to be blessed with the 22 % APR from these credit card companies.

[1413] That's the easiest way to do it, because then you're going to find another way when debt's not an option, when debt's off the table.

[1414] I got a friend that lost his career, he lost his family, he lost everything because of a drinking problem.

[1415] He's now been dry for 30 years.

[1416] You know when he's going to drink again?

[1417] Never.

[1418] You know when the alcohol is going to be in his house again?

[1419] Never.

[1420] Ever.

[1421] You've got to decide.

[1422] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1423] In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt -free stage, Samantha's with us.

[1424] Hi, Samantha.

[1425] How are you?

[1426] I'm wonderful.

[1427] How are you guys doing?

[1428] Well, better than we deserve.

[1429] Where do you live.

[1430] Dallas, Texas.

[1431] All right.

[1432] Welcome to Nashville.

[1433] And how much debt have you paid off?

[1434] $57 ,208 and 66 cents.

[1435] Way to go.

[1436] How long did that take?

[1437] 27 months.

[1438] Good for you.

[1439] And your range of income during that time?

[1440] 70 ,000 to 106.

[1441] Cool.

[1442] What do you do for a living?

[1443] I am a DPMO, so basically I'm a program manager of operations.

[1444] Wow, good for you.

[1445] And what kind of debt was the $57 ,000?

[1446] Credit card debt.

[1447] I had medical debt.

[1448] I had medical debt.

[1449] I had a car loan and the infamous student loan debt.

[1450] You had it all.

[1451] You were normal.

[1452] Yes, sir.

[1453] Wow, what a line up.

[1454] A prize for collecting them all.

[1455] Yeah, my paycheck.

[1456] How old are you?

[1457] I'm 31.

[1458] Okay, very cool.

[1459] So what happened 27 months ago that Samantha got a wake -up call and how did you get connected to us?

[1460] Sure.

[1461] So about a year and a half before that, I gave my life to the Lord.

[1462] I was at my rock bottom, gave my life to the Lord.

[1463] Cool.

[1464] And I got serious about actually following God, about six months after that.

[1465] So I started reading the Bible, and the Bible says debt is bad.

[1466] Very cool.

[1467] So I had this plan that I was going to pay off my student loan in 10 years, and I told my brother -in -law and my sister, and they said, well, you can actually pay it off in two years.

[1468] You can actually pay off all of your debt.

[1469] They said they did, they met this guy, Ramsey, Dave Ramsey, and they paid off all of their debt.

[1470] Oh, wow.

[1471] Yeah, so, well, we met you, your show.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] So they did that, and I thought they were crazy.

[1474] I was like, they don't know how much debt I have.

[1475] So me being me, I started doing some research.

[1476] I got the total money makeover, read the book.

[1477] I listened to some of your teachings, and what really did it for me was listening to the podcast because you had people of all walks of life, single people, married, people, younger people, more tenured people.

[1478] More tenured.

[1479] That was sweet.

[1480] So nice.

[1481] That's what I am, George.

[1482] I'm tenured.

[1483] She didn't make eye contact with you, so that's good.

[1484] I thought of a personal day.

[1485] So, yeah, and then I started on the plan.

[1486] I want to be a good struit of the things that God has for me. Amen.

[1487] Where do you go to church in Dallas?

[1488] Life Fellowship in McKinney.

[1489] Very nice.

[1490] Very nice.

[1491] So you just leaned into the podcast after reading the book and started following and doing the stuff and just straight up did it.

[1492] I did.

[1493] I really got some momentum because my credit card debt was smaller.

[1494] I was able to do that within the first two months.

[1495] but then really getting after my car and seeing how quickly I was able to pay it off, it really gave me momentum.

[1496] I started babysitting, dog sitting, house sitting, cat sitting.

[1497] A lot of sitting.

[1498] Yes.

[1499] I was in school getting my master's when I started this.

[1500] So, as you know, with getting an extended degree, you don't even have enough time to cry, let alone get a regular second job.

[1501] So I had to be creative with it.

[1502] So I did that.

[1503] I learned how to coupon, and I cut down 98 % of it.

[1504] my personal expenses for like toiletries and household items.

[1505] Wow.

[1506] Yeah.

[1507] You were like extreme coupon or then?

[1508] I wouldn't say extreme.

[1509] Like you were getting paid at the store.

[1510] Yes.

[1511] Yes.

[1512] Like here's $20?

[1513] Yes, they did.

[1514] I got good enough at it where they actually started owing me money when I would go couponing.

[1515] So and then I started selling my stockpile.

[1516] I was able to give some of it away to single moms and people in need.

[1517] Wow.

[1518] Well, it sounds like you had a heart for generosity throughout this whole process, which is beautiful.

[1519] Yes, which was hard because, you know, my money was going to debt and I couldn't give it away outside of tithing, but I got creative that way to be able to still give.

[1520] That's inspiring.

[1521] What's your master's in?

[1522] I got my master's in management with a operations excellence.

[1523] Yeah, right there in your job.

[1524] Way to go.

[1525] So did you get a raise in this process and promotion?

[1526] Yeah, that's the 70 to 106, right?

[1527] I did, actually.

[1528] It's actually an interesting story.

[1529] I was going to get laid off in the middle of doing this.

[1530] So I started looking for another job, and I found the current job that I had so that my income went up to 85, and then they saw, they appreciated my work ethic, so they gave me a 20 % raise.

[1531] Wow, very good.

[1532] Very good.

[1533] Good for you.

[1534] Thank you.

[1535] How fun.

[1536] Your sister and brother -in -law got to be cheering.

[1537] They would be here, but my sister is extremely pregnant, so she couldn't travel, but I know they're watching.

[1538] And I'm so thankful to them.

[1539] They cheered me on.

[1540] Every time I'd pay off $5 ,000.

[1541] I'd be like, I still have 50 left, but they were excited.

[1542] Like, I paid everything off.

[1543] So they were great cheerleaders in my church family.

[1544] They would take me out to eat because I wasn't going out to eat.

[1545] I wasn't spending extra money for Christmas.

[1546] They'd buy me clothes because I would buy one pair of jeans a year until literally I had holes in it because I was trying to save as much money as I can.

[1547] That's cool now.

[1548] Yes, yes, it is.

[1549] Well, maybe not for work, but.

[1550] Wow.

[1551] Samantha, you're amazing.

[1552] Thank you.

[1553] You are amazing.

[1554] I'm so proud of you, Hero.

[1555] Thank you.

[1556] God is amazing in me. Well done.

[1557] He is amazing.

[1558] And it's so happy you found him and that's what started the whole process.

[1559] Very, very, very cool.

[1560] So what do you tell that person who's 29 and they're looking at $57 ,000 in debt and they're like, well, 10 years, maybe I'll pay off my student loans?

[1561] What would you tell that person if you were sitting across from them getting coffee?

[1562] Sure.

[1563] I would tell them to look at how much interest they were paying because that was what is.

[1564] upset me. I would make a payment and so little was going towards the principal and so much was going towards the interest.

[1565] And it was actually funny when I paid my car off or I got close, they called me and asked me if everything was okay.

[1566] And I said, yeah, I'm trying to pay my car off.

[1567] But I would say that the first thing would be Jesus.

[1568] It says in his word that his faithfulness is a protective shield.

[1569] When you're obedient to God's word, he's going to bless you.

[1570] My income going up, that was a blessing from God.

[1571] So when you walk with him, he will bless you.

[1572] And then secondly, endurance.

[1573] There's so many quick, quick fix plans for getting out of debt.

[1574] But what I love about this plan, it taught me that I don't need to impulse by.

[1575] That was a reality that I had to come face to face with.

[1576] And also that I did this to myself.

[1577] I swiped that credit card.

[1578] I went and got that car loan.

[1579] I did those things, but I was going to work really hard to get out of debt and do that.

[1580] And be an to my nephew and to my future children.

[1581] My sister and I and my brother -in -law are first generation believers, so we want to show the next generation that they can do this without debt.

[1582] You can go to school without debt.

[1583] You can get a master's.

[1584] I was able to get my master's without taking out additional money, so you can do it.

[1585] I had a surgery, my dog got sick, all of that, but because I was doing this plan and inflation, because I was doing this plan, I was able to pay cash for those things, and I didn't have to rely on a credit card or a loan to do that.

[1586] Rockstar.

[1587] You're amazing.

[1588] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1589] Pretty incredible.

[1590] You have changed your family tree.

[1591] You've changed your whole life.

[1592] The gospel has transformed you.

[1593] It's very powerful, very powerful.

[1594] Well done.

[1595] Very, very, very well done.

[1596] I love it.

[1597] So I guess I'm going to phrase it again.

[1598] Maybe George asked this, but let's see if we can do it one more time.

[1599] Boil it down.

[1600] If you told people to do one thing or two things to get out of the time, debt what would you tell them to do endurance endurance endurance don't quit don't quit you can do it um 27 months is a long time and 27 months is nothing yes and you can be very creative i mean my friends still had babies i was able to coupon and get 110 dollars worth of diapers for 41 cents um you can find different deals and you know wow it's out there you're smart enough to do it just because i have a master's isn't mean i'm like overly smart or anything you can figure out how to be creative and how to get out there and hustle.

[1601] It is possible to do it.

[1602] You're amazing.

[1603] Well done.

[1604] Hey, we've got the live and give box for you.

[1605] The Baby Steps Millionaire's book because that's where you're headed for sure.

[1606] Total Money Makeover book to give to somebody and give them some hope.

[1607] Financial Peace University membership, go through it or give it away.

[1608] That's the live and give box.

[1609] People buy it all the time, but we're going to give it to you to say thanks for coming all the way from Dallas.

[1610] Congratulations, Samantha.

[1611] Samantha from Dallas, Texas, 57 ,000.

[1612] dollars paid off in 27 months the coupon queen from 70 to 106 count it down let's hear a debt -free scream three two one all glory be to God I'm debt free I'm debt free I want to be Samantha when I grow up man she's impressive be careful your life will preach wow powerful powerful powerful this is the Ramsey chef our scripture of the day isaiah 4110 so do not fear for i am with you do not be dismayed for i am your god i will strengthen you and help you i will uphold you with my righteous right hand tommy lasota said pressure is a word that is misused in our vocabulary when you start to think about pressure it's because you've started to think of failure there we go dakota is in Dallas.

[1613] Hi, Dakota.

[1614] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1615] Hi, Dave.

[1616] Thanks for taking my call.

[1617] How are you?

[1618] Better than we deserve.

[1619] What's up in your world?

[1620] Hey, so I am 27 years old.

[1621] I am making around $76 ,000 a year between my full -time job and a part -time job that I picked up.

[1622] Cool.

[1623] I am fortunate to not have any credit card debt, which is great, and I'm very thankful for that, but I am sitting around $45 ,000 in debt between my student loans and a car loan.

[1624] My student loans are around $31 ,000 across five loans with my highest interest rate at 6 .6 % and then my car have about $14 ,000 left at a 3 .79 % interest rate.

[1625] So I'm sitting around $6 ,600 in my savings account and I followed along with the show in hearing the goal of having $1 ,000 in savings is.

[1626] great.

[1627] However, having that little amount also gives me a lot of anxiety and thinking of, you know, random things I could come up here and there, car breaks down, you know, extra expenses, things like that.

[1628] So I guess my question is with my lowest student loan being around $3 ,000, technically I do have a savings account to just start, you know, knocking that out right away while still having a little over $3 ,000 left in the account.

[1629] So I guess the question is, should I plan to start drawing from that savings account to start knocking those, you know, student loans out in the car out, paying extra there, or should I leave that savings account alone, look at refinancing, I'm not sure.

[1630] How deeply are you willing to cut your lifestyle and how many hours are you willing to work to where you could do this in one year?

[1631] Yeah, so.

[1632] 46, what do you say?

[1633] 41 ,000, right?

[1634] 45 ,000.

[1635] About 45 ,000.

[1636] Out of 76 ,000.

[1637] Out of 76 ,000 means you.

[1638] you live on 30, or you live on a little bit more, but you pay off everything in one year.

[1639] Yeah, I'm working about 40 to 50 hours for my full -time job, salary position, and then my part -time job, I was pulling an extra like 15 to 20 hours a week there at a retail gig.

[1640] For my mental health, having that much time working, it was a lot.

[1641] For mental health to work?

[1642] Just between the responsibility.

[1643] It's not that I don't have the mental health of the capacity to work.

[1644] I don't want to come across like that.

[1645] You said for my mental health, that's a bunch of crap.

[1646] Yeah, it was just to the point where I was feeling super overwhelmed with the amount of hours I was putting in.

[1647] I wasn't taking care of myself.

[1648] Yes, because you did not have a – you felt like a rat in a wheel, though you were not getting traction.

[1649] If you were seeing this debt drop off at $3 ,000 to $4 ,000 a month and you knew you were, were going to be done a year, you'd be fine working, but you were just stuck working.

[1650] Yeah, I did.

[1651] Yeah, that's a good, that's a better way of putting it.

[1652] I felt really stuck.

[1653] I felt like I was getting all this extra money and then it, I was trying to allocate it.

[1654] Working all the time really hard if you got great traction is not that harsh.

[1655] Right.

[1656] It's not what you want to do the rest of your life, but I want you to be done in a year.

[1657] In that case, $1 ,000 as an emergency fund is not as scary because you're going to be done in a year.

[1658] Mm -hmm.

[1659] Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[1660] You have almost $6 ,000 now, right?

[1661] Yeah, I've got about $6 ,600 in my savings account.

[1662] Oh, so we're going to put $6 ,000 on the $45 ,000.

[1663] Now we've only got $39 to do in a year.

[1664] Mm -hmm.

[1665] Wow.

[1666] So I guess to get further clarification, so the $1 ,000, like I said, does give me a little bit of anxiety because I just think, for example, I want you to have a little bit of anxiety.

[1667] What's giving you anxiety is, He's $45 ,000 in debt hanging off, feeling stuck.

[1668] When you are knocking off $3 ,000 to $4 ,000, you're not going to have anxiety.

[1669] You're going to knock it out.

[1670] And then you're going to be done.

[1671] You're going to be 28 years old and not have a payment in the world.

[1672] Can you breathe that in?

[1673] I know.

[1674] Wow.

[1675] What is your recommendation?

[1676] That is my recommendation, darling.

[1677] Well, I have to replace two tires on my car.

[1678] So I think if I'd have only had $1 ,000 in my...

[1679] That's enough to replace two tires.

[1680] And then you replenish it.

[1681] So you'd pause the debt snowball.

[1682] Let's say that you have another two tires go out.

[1683] Pause the debt snowball.

[1684] Your next paycheck's going to cover the tire.

[1685] You already have $1 ,000 in the emergency fund.

[1686] And then you move on.

[1687] You just pick up where you left off.

[1688] Get the $1 ,000 back.

[1689] Instead of $3 ,000 or $4 ,000 going on your debt this month, only $2 ,000 does because you're going to buy some tires.

[1690] Okay.

[1691] That makes more sense.

[1692] Okay.

[1693] You've got two new tires now.

[1694] So that problem's out of your way.

[1695] Yeah, there'll be something else, though.

[1696] There'll be something else break.

[1697] Right.

[1698] And you're going to be working.

[1699] all the time.

[1700] Well, you won't have time to spend money.

[1701] Right.

[1702] And don't worry.

[1703] Just for you die, you'll pass out.

[1704] Yeah, but hey, I'll pass out and be that free.

[1705] Exactly.

[1706] I'm kidding with you, kiddo.

[1707] But listen, if you, the trick is this.

[1708] We have figured out that the more intense people are, the math almost quits working you get out so fast.

[1709] because you create this emotional spiritual momentum that goes with a math momentum and it becomes all -encompassing.

[1710] I mean, you become like you joined a cult or something for a short period of time, right?

[1711] You don't think about anything else for a short period of time.

[1712] And then you're going to be 28 years old and not have a payment in the world.

[1713] And you've been playing footsie with this stuff for almost a decade.

[1714] It's been hanging around like a problem.

[1715] talk about anxiety inducing yeah and i i am wanting to get all of this taking care of you know my boyfriend and i are both individually trying to take care of our debt before we decide to take that next step of getting married and starting a family and things like that so you don't have to wait to get out of debt to be married you just both have to you both have to be an agreement that we're going to get out of death that's all yeah that is true that is true i'm i'm ready to get it knocked out though.

[1716] Do it.

[1717] Do it.

[1718] Do it.

[1719] Dakota.

[1720] Dakota.

[1721] I dare you to take $5 ,600 and attack some debt today.

[1722] You're going to get a little pep in your step.

[1723] So, hey, Samantha was just on here doing her debt -free scrimm.

[1724] She made $70 ,000 when she was started.

[1725] She paid off $57 ,000 in 27 ,000 in 27 months and finished her master's degree.

[1726] And cash flowed all kinds of expenses.

[1727] That was right before you.

[1728] Just a minute ago.

[1729] Single.

[1730] Your age.

[1731] Just a minute ago.

[1732] Go back and watch her debt free scream just a minute ago.

[1733] See, you can absolutely do this.

[1734] You absolutely.

[1735] So get it.

[1736] Dakota, Dakota, Dakota.

[1737] We're cheering you on.

[1738] Hey, we're going to put you in Financial Peace University and pay for it.

[1739] We're going to put you in every dollar premium so you can hook up and run your budget.

[1740] And I want you to just go crazy for a short period of time.

[1741] So you get your life back.

[1742] And you do that, Dakota.

[1743] You will never go back in debt.

[1744] And you will become wealthy because you will pay attention to money.

[1745] money and make it behave the rest of your life.

[1746] Money is a fabulous slave.

[1747] It is a horrible master.

[1748] And it has been owning your butt for a decade.

[1749] It's time you got on top of it and you own it.

[1750] Dakota, Dakota, Dakota.

[1751] She could do it, George.

[1752] Yeah, well, I just keep thinking about this mental health crisis in America, and I think it has more to do with debt than a $1 ,000 emergency fund.

[1753] We're feeling out of control rat and a wheel.

[1754] When you're doing stupid stuff or you don't have, a sense of destiny, everything is anxiety -inducing.

[1755] I mean, stupid should induce anxiety.

[1756] They have a direct connection.

[1757] You should have anxiety if you're doing stupid stuff, shouldn't you?

[1758] That's your body telling you this is not smart.

[1759] That's, yeah, that's like stupid really should be anxiety -inducing.

[1760] She's not doing stupid, but I'm just saying the, but I'm just in general, you know, and working and not knowing where you're going, like she was talking about that.

[1761] That is, that does do that.

[1762] But hard work does not cause mental health problems.

[1763] Never has.

[1764] As a matter of fact, it solves a lot of them.

[1765] Actually, talk to Dr. John Deloney.

[1766] I was talking about it with him on the air the other day about this.

[1767] One of the things that they tell people that are struggling with depression is get outside vitamin D and engage in physical activity and get engaged in something where you're seeing traction.

[1768] All of those sound like work to me so yeah work your butt off go crazy for a short period of time and you know work is not anxiety inducing ever well it is if you're working for a toxic jerk i take that back but yeah but i guess but i mean just the essence of work itself is not anxiety inducing yeah so very cool dakota dakota hold on austin's going to pick up we're going to get you signed up for everything we're going to give it to you because we believe in you we'll be back with you before you you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus hey folks dave here you want to hear even more life -changing content from ramsie download the ramsie network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place like the ramsie show smart money happy hour and the dr john deloney show you'll get real talk about life relationships money and your career plus the app lets you browse by topic like debt business or selling your home get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen download the ramsay network app today