Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 1: My Firstest Murder

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hello.

[2] We're here with something new for you guys, for the whole Mortarino community.

[3] It's called Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[4] That's right.

[5] So we are going back right now to January 13th, 2016, the precious little baby.

[6] And that's the day our first episode was released.

[7] And we're going to add all new commentary to our favorite moments from the show just for you.

[8] And we're going to reflect on the beginning.

[9] of this show, talk about case updates, talk about everything that's changed along the way.

[10] It's been a very long time.

[11] It has eight and a half years.

[12] And now you can invite your sister, your coworker, your gothic librarian friends.

[13] So they can now be day one listeners as well.

[14] And you guys can have a listening party with our commentary.

[15] What you're about to hear taking place in 2016, just to give you a little context, we're in Georgia's apartment in East Hollywood.

[16] I don't think there was air conditioning, right?

[17] Oh, definitely not air conditioning.

[18] No air conditioning.

[19] Obama was President.

[20] David Bowie had just died.

[21] It was a real innocent time in place where we decided to kick this thing off.

[22] We had no idea.

[23] We had no freaking clue.

[24] Like, can you imagine back then if we had any idea what was going to happen?

[25] There was like a time traveler that came and talked, that knocked on the door that was like, guys, what you're about to do is going to change your lives forever.

[26] I was like, fuck you.

[27] You know what I was thinking?

[28] You know what I was comparing it to in my head is the podcast is like we were at a rave and there was some cool like house music going on and they're like chill room and we're chilling.

[29] And we didn't know that suddenly the beat was about to drop so fucking hard.

[30] And we would be fucking on the speakers dancing to that fucking beat drop.

[31] Like we had no idea.

[32] We had no idea.

[33] And we forgot that we had done drugs.

[34] 45 minutes previous.

[35] So the beat drops right as the drugs kick in and suddenly a lot of things are happening.

[36] And the main thing that happened and I think the main thing we didn't expect was being like was feedback that this thing we were making was not us in a little cocoon.

[37] It was we're putting it obviously out into the world and then the world began to talk to us.

[38] Right.

[39] That I think has been the most mind -based.

[40] flowing, sometimes very frightening, and sometimes incredibly rewarding.

[41] Yeah, like, you know, really nice.

[42] The people that like us really love us, and that's what we have focused on this whole time.

[43] They've given us a lot of grace, and I appreciate that and given us the opportunity to take that grace and do something with it.

[44] For example, in this first episode, we use the word prostitute.

[45] Like, it ain't no thing.

[46] Well, at the time, it was literally what newscasters used.

[47] It was what they were using over on 2020 and Dateline and everywhere else.

[48] This was the word that was used.

[49] You know why?

[50] Because at that rate, there were no other people like us at that rave.

[51] I'm going to keep going back.

[52] Go to the rave metaphor.

[53] There was nobody else doing the last podcast in the left.

[54] They were obviously doing that.

[55] But this kind of conversational spectator, true crime podcast.

[56] with two women was not really a thing back then.

[57] No. So, you know, keep that in mind when you listen.

[58] Please.

[59] Yeah.

[60] There's a lot of, well, it's just to, it's basically a private conversation that got recorded and then distributed.

[61] There's also a lot of nervous laughing.

[62] That's a thing over the years that I have recognized in myself, that I was a person who laughed to fill the air.

[63] I think it's because of my stand -up comedy background where that's, you know, go along, get -along kind of thing.

[64] But it's also where talking about this comedically at, like, we were being cool.

[65] And I think that was a very first year or first even four months kind of energy that we had.

[66] And immediately people started talking to us about it.

[67] And then it was like, oh, oh, wait, that's, we'll never say that word again.

[68] or we're doing this wrong or it just became this like awakening of like oh this is we're like we're doing this now yeah people are listening to us we have a responsibility as women i feel like to you know set a certain standard and i don't think we realize that was going to happen yet and so there is a lot of nervous giggling there is like i love like i love murder like now we would never say something like that yes you know it's like we've really learned well we just realized like we didn't consider ourselves professionals or anything like that, but we realized there was a standard that we needed to start kind of broadcasting up to.

[69] And we had this opportunity and this platform to actually make that change, to actually listen when people said, hey, you said this, and this is how I took it, and I did not like it.

[70] You don't have to listen to every single person that says that.

[71] But there are people who say it and they have a great point.

[72] And you go, yeah, you're right.

[73] I'm going to incorporate that.

[74] And that's a change I want to make.

[75] and that makes perfect sense.

[76] Totally.

[77] Like every correction doesn't have to be a condemnation.

[78] It's an opportunity for you to grow and change and become a bigger person.

[79] Which I actually think, I mean, this might sound self -congratulatory, but I honestly think that's why people listened.

[80] Right.

[81] It's because when have you ever listened to people having a conversation and then you go back a week later and they're like, ooh, hey, listen, I fucked that up.

[82] And like, we didn't, I think because we just were like, yeah, we, corrections corner came up before any corrections.

[83] That's true.

[84] You made up the idea for a corrections corner.

[85] Yeah.

[86] Before, like, yes, we're going to get things wrong.

[87] And that's another thing too.

[88] It's like coming into it being like, we're not experts.

[89] Go watch the documentary.

[90] You want an expert.

[91] I think like not being smarty pants about it was very helpful.

[92] It wasn't really a choice.

[93] That's the other thing.

[94] But we're both such smarty pants, though.

[95] We're both such PhDs.

[96] We are.

[97] I mean, in this episode, Oh, no, sorry, it's the next episode.

[98] I thought I was just going to be able to tell my story off the top of my head.

[99] We both really were just like, here's my story.

[100] There's no story.

[101] Right, we're just chatting.

[102] It was very, you know, the armchair quarterbacks that are there to talk about the game that they just watched.

[103] So it was, you know, and it was so fun to finally give ourselves permission.

[104] And I think the permission piece, which for people today, now that it's so normalized and it is a thing that people it's everything on Netflix it's everything that people talk about back then the act of giving ourselves permission to say we like this and we want to talk about it people would write in and say I've never been able to talk about this before that doesn't happen anymore and that's such a good point is the reason we started this podcast is because personally I didn't have other friends I could talk to about this like people would say to me when I'd say where are you and they'd tell me and I'd tell them the murder that happened, the big murder that happened in their town.

[105] Like, no one wanted to hear that.

[106] Right.

[107] And when I found you and you were like, let's go sit at a cafe for five hours and talk about this, I was like, oh, like, this is so exciting.

[108] This is all I want to discuss because my anxiety around this is horrible.

[109] And that's how I cope with anxiety is, you know, it's talking it out and diving into it.

[110] Diving in and, you know, relating to other people.

[111] And so the fact that we started it just for that reason, and not expecting that anyone else would want to listen because our friends wouldn't want to listen.

[112] Right.

[113] And also the thing of us talking about therapy, which is, I think, at the time, something you and I were doing freely and we didn't care, but a lot of other people felt like it was, you know, the Scarlet Letter somehow, or it meant something really bad.

[114] And that has changed so much just culturally, just because everyone's like, oh, no, I get to be healthy and happy to fuck off.

[115] But back then, I think you and I very ignorantly were just like, yeah, we go to therapy.

[116] We really need it.

[117] Sure.

[118] Here's what my therapist said.

[119] I'm fucking, that's all I'm thinking about this week.

[120] Yes.

[121] Because I'm falling apart.

[122] Yeah.

[123] So, yeah.

[124] Also, I really have to apologize to my sister's friend, Adrienne, because I call her Prissy within the first 15 seconds of that episode.

[125] Like, one of my closest friends in the world.

[126] Oh, my God.

[127] Who also isn't really.

[128] I don't know what I was doing.

[129] I would not describe her as Prissy.

[130] She's not at all.

[131] like she would win in a bar fight for sure the bar fight wouldn't start because people would be so fucking scared absolutely but i think the word i was looking for is i had judged her on the surface of like she would think i was weird like prim and proper almost yeah but even though she is like but it's just so funny because i think that was all those things were these kind of it's almost like you and i just thought we were going to talk about you know serial killers and whatever and then there were just all these weird personal discoveries and and these and other people having personal discoveries and telling us about the personal discoveries and also georgia got the idea of like doing hometowns she had that on episode one where it was like if you like this and you know a story that got you into this tell us about it like what a brilliant fucking i mean thanks for that by the bye hell yeah i mean it was really cool to take something i actually did in life and then be able to like guess real stories instead of being the weirdo telling the stories.

[132] If you're trying to make up a podcast for yourself, I would recommend that you do exactly what Georgia did, which is what is the thing that embarrasses you, that you do so much and no one else understands?

[133] And if you take that on to the mic, you will have your mind blown and how many people are just like you.

[134] Well, it's very telling, and I know we talk about this, we've talked about this a lot, but we were both reading Brunay Brown staring greatly when we started this podcast.

[135] So it was like vulnerability like to 11.

[136] Vulnerability at a rave?

[137] Vulnerability.

[138] Well, and also I think being the age that I was too, it's like I'd done lots of things, tried lots of things.

[139] And it was finally like I was in my late 40s going, I don't give a shit.

[140] Like vulnerability is the only way because I've, done all those other ways and they're fake and other people know you're being fake and it doesn't work and whatever.

[141] So there's, yeah, I think there was just lots of, it was just like for us, maybe the perfect time and place.

[142] Yeah, definitely.

[143] In our lives.

[144] There's no way that, yeah, that can't be denied.

[145] So right now we're going to throw to a nice chunk from the beginning of this episode, just so you get the sense of what that is.

[146] And then if you want to listen to the full episode obviously the whole catalog is up and it always has been but this is just more of like if you have a friend who has told you oh I want to listen that podcast but it's been going on for so long that it's too late I won't get it quote unquote we're here to tell you there's literally nothing to get it's it's almost the same every single time we're just doing riffs in the middle but and then changing the topic to something horrifying and compelling and people's stories So, like, it's the same every time.

[147] So if you've listened from the beginning, but it's been a while, this is kind of like the best of.

[148] So you can also, like, give it to your mom to listen to without having to start from the very beginning, actually.

[149] Yeah.

[150] So just stay to the end.

[151] We'll be commenting throughout the whole thing.

[152] And thank you guys for listening.

[153] Here is the intro.

[154] Let's go back.

[155] Let's rewind.

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[174] Goodbye.

[175] it's really happening it's really happening Georgia hey hard start Karen Kilgara just go to sleep let's get comfy let's just relax into what we're about to do which is our new podcast my favorite murder let's get cozy and comfy and cuddle up yeah talk about murder talk about the thing that makes you feel most romantic murder we got a fire lit we're having some hot cocoa I'm swirling a brand Randy around over my head.

[176] No, I love this topic.

[177] I do too.

[178] And that's why we're friends.

[179] Yeah, we've talked about this for a long time about true crime and what our favorite ones are.

[180] Because that sounds creepy, but that's who we are.

[181] That's fine.

[182] I feel like we were at a party and something along this topic came up and that's how you and I were both like shoulder grab moment.

[183] I remember which one it was.

[184] What was it?

[185] It was the staircase.

[186] Yes.

[187] Yes.

[188] Everyone's favorite, isn't it?

[189] Oh, yeah.

[190] And because we were at a party and a girl we were there with, Erin Dewey Lennox, she has a photo from prom of herself on that staircase.

[191] No. You're shaking your head now.

[192] No, I'm just freaking out.

[193] I didn't see that.

[194] Did I?

[195] Are you talking about Matt's Halloween party last year?

[196] Yeah.

[197] I didn't see that.

[198] Oh, my God.

[199] So she was friends with that family in high school.

[200] And so before it happened, there was prom.

[201] She went to a prom.

[202] prom with the daughter, her friend, photo of them in their prom dresses on the staircase.

[203] Oh, my God.

[204] The staircase of the staircase story.

[205] Unbelievable.

[206] I know.

[207] What does she think?

[208] What's her opinion?

[209] I think she thinks a bird did it, which I think is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[210] The owl theory?

[211] Yeah.

[212] No. Right?

[213] That is made up as hell.

[214] Everyone watched the staircase and then laugh along with us, the owl story.

[215] You know what's funny is I just recommended my sister's best friend, Adrian.

[216] who's basically like my other sister I grew up with.

[217] She was, she, I told her we were going to do this.

[218] And the second I said it, and I did not know this about her.

[219] I've known her since I was 12.

[220] Oh, my God, I love it.

[221] She goes, oh, well, night soccer.

[222] It has to be night soccer first and formal.

[223] And I was like, wait, I didn't realize you had an opinion about this.

[224] She's like, oh, my God, I love serial killers.

[225] And I was like, what?

[226] Like, she was always the prissy girl.

[227] Yeah.

[228] And like the, or I mean, not prissy, but just, I just thought it was so weird and perverted it all my life for loving this topic so much.

[229] And you can't tell anyone because they're going to think you're psychotic or like into murder, which you're not, you're just like fascinated.

[230] By the idea, the whole concept.

[231] Right.

[232] So that was awesome.

[233] And then I said, you have to watch this series.

[234] You'll freak out.

[235] And she's been texting me updates as she's watching it like, can't believe it.

[236] Just all emojis.

[237] So basically, yeah, go watch it.

[238] But this chick's husband fucking killed her because she found out that he was having like a child molester or something, right?

[239] No, no, no. he was having a fair, he was like paying for male prostitutes.

[240] And she found out like right before he murdered her.

[241] I mean, that, the owl playing into that, it makes it seem more unlikely when you know about the male prostitutes.

[242] It does, it throws a, what do you call, wrench in the works a little bit for the owl.

[243] It throws an owl.

[244] It throws a male prostitute into the thing.

[245] It throws a live owl into the works.

[246] It's so crazy.

[247] But I understand there, you know, there's people.

[248] making argument that like he got railroaded because of the male prostitute thing right and and painted a picture of him that wasn't real or whatever but i that's still bullshit because you can still kill your wife and be railroaded and back totally southern people be biased against you because you're secretly southern people aren't the tolerant of the southern and i'll be intolerant by saying all southern people are intolerant but it's absolutely true across the board there you go that's what we're about big Big facts and truths.

[249] So stop listening now if you can't handle the truth and facts.

[250] Or spoilers like the guy killed his wife on the stairs.

[251] It's not a mystery.

[252] I don't think a spoiler is ever the guy killed his wife because that's like, yeah, the guy killed his wife.

[253] It's like a spoiler is that an owl did it.

[254] That's exactly right.

[255] Good point.

[256] So we're going to, so this is, are we calling this my favorite murder?

[257] I think you're going to say, are we recording this?

[258] So do you want to start with it?

[259] Is this what we're...

[260] Should we start?

[261] My favorite murder, and it's going to be real fucked up.

[262] And Dustin brought up a great point that we might be inviting a murderer into our lives by doing this.

[263] I mean, but here's the thing.

[264] And this is why I'm so fascinated by this topic in general.

[265] We might already know a murderer.

[266] Oh, my God.

[267] Like, probably.

[268] Probably.

[269] And in that way where they're just in a very cat -like, removed, Dexter way, just observing all this with a kind of, oh, they think they're...

[270] Isn't that cute?

[271] Yeah.

[272] How sweet.

[273] How sweet.

[274] Yeah, so I guess the disclaimers, really don't kill us because we can't do this podcast anymore.

[275] This is why we're friends is because we love murder.

[276] Murder and the one time I was stoned at a party and decided to tell people one of the worst things I've ever seen.

[277] I made people blanch and walk away from our circle.

[278] And Georgia moved closer with the white eyes.

[279] She has right now going, oh, my God, this is amazing.

[280] It's when I, I don't know why I did it.

[281] This is part of my problem.

[282] Oh, God.

[283] Tell me. I love it.

[284] It was when, I think it was at that same party.

[285] Somebody asked me what had been going on lately, and it was right after I got back from South by Southwest, or not right after, for some reason, the South by Southwest.

[286] The car accident came up, and my big brag, which never pans out as a brag, I always think it is, like, how fascinating about me and no one ever agrees, is that I was there when it happened, and I didn't see it, my back was to it, I heard it.

[287] Tell everyone what it was.

[288] Oh, sorry.

[289] at South by Southwest two years ago a guy was in a police chase and he turned up a street that was cordoned off for people to mill about because it was a festival and so all the people standing in the street in front of the theater where X was playing got plowed down.

[290] Old punk rockers.

[291] Yeah.

[292] And I had been standing last in line to get in so I would have been the first person hit but I decided to walk away.

[293] Good for you.

[294] I've been like fuck this shit I'm over it.

[295] Yeah, because you know me in lines and waiting and how I don't go anywhere or do anything.

[296] So I walked away to see my friend at the front like, hey, let's just stand out here and listen to the music.

[297] The car comes.

[298] People fly like cardboard boxes.

[299] I tell this story in groups of people and people are literally like bumming out hard.

[300] And I had just read about it that afternoon and I was like, tell me everything.

[301] Because that's my like car accidents are another thing.

[302] I've had two ex -boyfriends and one best friend dying car accidents.

[303] What?

[304] Yeah.

[305] Yeah.

[306] Two ex -boyfriends.

[307] There were ex -boyfriends at the time, but they were important ones, you know, from, like, high school.

[308] Died in car accidents.

[309] One, my best friend from high school died in car accident.

[310] Don't drink and drive you guys.

[311] That's horrible.

[312] I know.

[313] So, like, I'm just fucking want to hear all about it.

[314] And I'm also big on, like, anything could happen at any moment.

[315] You'll never know about it.

[316] Like, I don't sit near a window at a restaurant because I'm like a car is going to come careening through the fucking window and kill me. Sure.

[317] So that shit to me is like, tell me everything so I can avoid.

[318] it is.

[319] That's what all this is, really.

[320] I just want to collect information and hear theories and stories so that I can be braced so that when I see the weird, you know, that the one thing's out of the knife block, I'm ready.

[321] Totally.

[322] Like, why is there an open soda can?

[323] Yes.

[324] I didn't, well, I don't drink Pepsi light.

[325] No. No. It's tough here.

[326] So keep us in context.

[327] We're just, we're living the light.

[328] We're trying, listen, we both have really bad anxiety.

[329] I just want, Everyone should know that we're like...

[330] I hope that's clear.

[331] I hope it's clear that we're clinically anxious people.

[332] On all the meds, it doesn't work.

[333] This is me at like a baseline, like medicated.

[334] I'm doing okay anxiety.

[335] I just don't leave my house almost ever.

[336] Right.

[337] You have two ferocious dogs.

[338] I have dogs that guard the door and we just stay indoors all the time.

[339] It's a secret.

[340] Everything's locked.

[341] Windows are locked and closed.

[342] I don't know how you live.

[343] I shouldn't say this, actually.

[344] How I live in that house?

[345] On the first floor.

[346] Well, that's my huge, a huge fear of mine.

[347] It's scary.

[348] But those dogs, that's why I got those dogs.

[349] That's true.

[350] I lived for a couple months without those dogs and every night I would just lay in my bed like I would hear things.

[351] It was crazy.

[352] Because also the quieter it is, the worse it is.

[353] Yeah.

[354] Because then you're just like, then your brain is telling you you're hearing things.

[355] It was nuts.

[356] And I was finally like, just get a look at a dog.

[357] Yeah.

[358] It's good for you.

[359] Thank you.

[360] Yeah.

[361] I'm a hero.

[362] I always have a boyfriend.

[363] No, not why.

[364] Also, because I don't, I have a seizure when I was a kid once and I don't want to sleep alone anymore.

[365] Oh, tell me about it.

[366] Also, I love Vince, but also, it's nice to not get murdered.

[367] Also, I love Vince comes third.

[368] The murder is important, though, because you have to live to be able to love him.

[369] But here's the thing.

[370] What if he murders me?

[371] I mean, you got to think about your husband.

[372] Here's what I'm telling you.

[373] The book I write will do you proud.

[374] Thank you so much.

[375] I will be the Ann Rule.

[376] I'll be like, guys, I was there the whole time.

[377] I knew.

[378] You would never have known he wanted to murder her.

[379] There's the best.

[380] Still Waters?

[381] You're like, that guy's the best?

[382] Which one still waters?

[383] Just, I'm saying people that are like, you would have never known that they had murder in them.

[384] That's the name of the book.

[385] Still waters run deep.

[386] Yeah.

[387] The Vince Averal story.

[388] Okay, should we tell?

[389] Okay, so then we'll tell each other our favorite murders.

[390] And then, okay, here's what we want.

[391] If you guys stop listening and join the murder part because you hate us.

[392] Before you do that, listen to this.

[393] We're obsessed with people.

[394] People's like hometown murder, kidnapping, fucked up crazy stories.

[395] Yeah.

[396] I have always asked people at bars and they stop talking to me because I want to know they're like, what was the crazy thing that happened in your town?

[397] And they can't handle that level of conversation.

[398] It's better you're not talking to them.

[399] I completely agree.

[400] Get out.

[401] And I don't have one really, one of those stories.

[402] Because you're from L .A. I'm from Orange County.

[403] Nothing bad happens there.

[404] No, there's some shit.

[405] So we want you to email us.

[406] You can email me at My Favorite Murder at gmail .com Your town story But don't say like Here's the town story Put a link in it I want we want in your own voice Like so this fucking thing happened And I was this year's old And my mom wouldn't let me And then we used to go to the house And throw rocks at it Yep Here's what happened Does that happen?

[407] Totally Did you do that?

[408] Yep Do you have a goal We can go then Talk about polyclass Yeah I mean That one Yeah that one's rough because it's so famous and the town was so small.

[409] That's crazy.

[410] I'm from Petaluma where the little girl, Pollyclas, got taken out of her bedroom by a man while she was having a slumber party.

[411] Like multiple people were there.

[412] Yeah, multiple little girls.

[413] Why did he do it then?

[414] Do we know?

[415] Nobody knows that there were lots of theories that the dad had like bad debts or was involved in drugs.

[416] But that's kind of, of course, small town gossip.

[417] That's extreme too.

[418] It's crazy.

[419] And also this guy was a total like Charles Manson in and out of jail all his life.

[420] Keep them in jail.

[421] Come on.

[422] That's another problem I have.

[423] It's this simple.

[424] It's so simple.

[425] Like, rapists get three to five years.

[426] Stop doing that.

[427] That's so insane.

[428] It's insane.

[429] You know, we're going to do a lot of good on this one.

[430] I feel like we're going to change laws.

[431] We're going to be advocates, victims advocates.

[432] Mariska Hargitay is going to guest spot on it once.

[433] She's going to deliver our speech.

[434] No, I don't know.

[435] what I'm saying.

[436] She's going to give us our medal at the podcast awards.

[437] Uh -huh.

[438] Listen, there are lots of rape kits that are backlogged thousands and thousands.

[439] Let's get those rape kits tested.

[440] Hey guys.

[441] Hey guys.

[442] Let's get those rape kits test.

[443] There's like a loosely closed door and on the other side of, and it called a rape kit, and on the other side of that door is the person who did it.

[444] And probably other bad things that you might want to know about.

[445] Probably.

[446] Should we come from the fact that we're going to call it my favorite murder?

[447] Did we agree to that on the spot?

[448] We agreed to it on the spot.

[449] Yeah.

[450] I love that.

[451] That's amazing.

[452] It's the same thing with when I played that theme song in my, while I was watching TV, I think I paused the TV.

[453] I got the idea for what it could be, sent it to you in a voice note.

[454] And you were like, sure.

[455] That's it.

[456] It was just like, okay.

[457] Because I was like, well, it could be this.

[458] And it was like, there was no discussion at all.

[459] And you just, you just rubber stamp that thing and put it right up.

[460] Done.

[461] I'm a yes lady.

[462] I think there is a mention that you mentioned, let me rock out for the theme song.

[463] I think you mentioned that.

[464] And then you do it.

[465] And I'm like, perfect.

[466] Moving on.

[467] Moving on.

[468] We've done it.

[469] Oh, it's like, it's kind of great because it's, if we had known, maybe it wouldn't have been so simply executed.

[470] We couldn't have known.

[471] And also, yeah, I think that's that, those details.

[472] that seemed so important, they didn't seem that important at the time.

[473] We were just hanging out.

[474] Yeah.

[475] What was going on in your life at the time in 2016?

[476] I had two fucking jobs trying to keep my head above water as I slowly went underwater with my mortgage.

[477] And so this was the last thing I was supposed to be doing because I had two full -time writing jobs and trying to like transition between one and the other and doing this.

[478] but I was like, yeah, it's so fun, and I want to have something, because I was so tired of in my career doing stuff that was just like for money to get, it just started feeling so crazy to work so much for money and nothing else.

[479] And so it was like, when you had this idea and you were like, we should do this, don't you think?

[480] And it was like, yeah, we definitely should.

[481] We need an extracurricular activity.

[482] I needed like something that wasn't, something that wasn't comedy, people from school.

[483] comedy all the people from all the jobs i've ever had like i i loved the idea and also you know the first couple times you and i hung out and i think we've talked about this a lot but like the energy you have like at a party is some of my favorite kind of energy because you're you are a manic well you're like a very light social shit disturber in a way that is my favorite oh my god because you're just like you're the biggest compliment i've ever had you like look around and then you're like, you know, am I about to yell something, like make everyone say what they're thankful for?

[484] Or am I about to belch so loudly that people are going to, like, have their hair blown back?

[485] Oh, my God.

[486] All of it equals fun.

[487] I love it.

[488] Thank you.

[489] Yes.

[490] So I needed more fun in my life for sure.

[491] Oh, I love that.

[492] Yeah.

[493] Thank you.

[494] Yeah.

[495] It was that.

[496] It was just for fun.

[497] Vince has mentioned in this first one as though he might kill me and you're going to write the memoir about it.

[498] Oh, yeah.

[499] Yeah.

[500] So that has that.

[501] hasn't happened yet, which is nice.

[502] And I'm still with, I can't believe I'm still with the same person.

[503] As someone who's always been in a series of three to five year relationships, the fact that I'm still with the dude from the beginning of this podcast is like awesome to me. Yeah, you've done it.

[504] That's a huge accomplishment.

[505] Yeah, for sure.

[506] Okay, well, my story is first, I think, right?

[507] Yeah.

[508] I do a classic Jean -Beney Ramsey.

[509] So here we go.

[510] Should we do my favorite murder?

[511] Yes.

[512] Do you want to go first?

[513] Sure.

[514] I think this is an obvious one.

[515] So like, yeah, what do we?

[516] Okay.

[517] My favorite murder.

[518] It's your official voice.

[519] I'm really excited.

[520] Yeah.

[521] You know what?

[522] Let's get real.

[523] I mean, like, we're just going to do every week our favorite murder, like a murder story we love.

[524] Yeah.

[525] And I had to start like a good one because it's, and it's new, I'm newly interested in this.

[526] My, what?

[527] I was just going to say one thing.

[528] We know other people love this as much as we do.

[529] So if we mess up information, don't be afraid to tell us.

[530] because I understand, like, when I hear people talking about something, it drives me crazy if I know the real thing, because it is my passion.

[531] But I also am very an inaccurate and messy person.

[532] So if I get it wrong and you want to tell us, please do, and we'll talk about it.

[533] I appreciate that because I'm so nervous about getting any of this wrong that I'm going to give less information than I would think I have.

[534] And also tell us more information that you know or, like, cool things that you know about it.

[535] Totally.

[536] Maybe we'll, I think at the end of the episodes, we should just, like, read listener mail of, like, weird shit.

[537] How about we have a whole segment that's like correction?

[538] How about we have a supplement to our podcast of just corrections every week?

[539] Because I, my passion is for the act and for specific stories within it.

[540] But like, I'll always get the numbers wrong or the years wrong.

[541] My passion is for the insanity of it and the fact that this stuff happens.

[542] So tell us when we're wrong.

[543] Just jump into this.

[544] Just nicely, though.

[545] You don't have to get on your high horse about it.

[546] Just calm down.

[547] Yeah.

[548] Now that we got that out of the way.

[549] My favorite murder is that of Jean -Beney Ramsey.

[550] Oh, classic.

[551] Which I used to think was stupid and boring until I listened to last podcast on the left's two -part in -depth discussion of it.

[552] Yes.

[553] And I was like, oh, this is way more fascinating than I remember.

[554] Yes.

[555] I love that podcast.

[556] You turned me on to it.

[557] So good.

[558] And you turned me on to it because of those episodes, which I immediately listened to.

[559] And those guys are so on it with all of their research.

[560] Yeah, very thorough.

[561] We are not.

[562] We're not going to do that.

[563] So, you know.

[564] Everyone knows it.

[565] Basically, a six -year -old girl was murdered in her home in Boulder, Colorado, 1996.

[566] She was a beauty queen, which I think kind of, I think just kind of sullies the whole thing.

[567] Because it's really just a little girl.

[568] And the giddy page and stuff has nothing to do with it.

[569] Right, except for you could stop right there and still have a real good horror story.

[570] Definitely.

[571] Because she's a six -year -old girl.

[572] They're babies.

[573] Children.

[574] I was telling you that, that I was looking at a picture of her and then remember that she's six, like one year older than five.

[575] And she looks like she's 10.

[576] She does.

[577] It's dirty.

[578] The whole thing is the creepiest.

[579] And she looks smarter than, she looks a little knowing.

[580] Yes.

[581] Which is fucked up.

[582] Yeah.

[583] And I feel like the beauty pageant thing was a big deal because it kind of, it kind of, Because it was never solved this crime, which I don't think it's true.

[584] I think her father killed her, which we'll get into.

[585] But the fact that it's like, well, maybe a child molester did it because I feel like that kind of made it seem that way.

[586] Because she's this dressed up woman basically as a child, and maybe she was murdered by a child molester or fan or something.

[587] Right.

[588] When really I think she was, it just happened to be her father who was that person.

[589] Right.

[590] Like that became the red herring that really is such a heart.

[591] You can't ignore red herring like that Because the thing itself is so creepy Yeah It's like being in a cult, being in child pageants Right, definitely It's like the Satan scare of the 80s When they thought everyone was All these kids were Satanists Yeah But really God and Satan don't exist So that's impossible Wait, wait, what?

[592] Oh, I'm sorry So then, yeah So I think that the dad did it He, there's like a lot of weird things about it The ransom letter is three pages Which is the longest ransom letter and murder history.

[593] That's the thing that I'm going to get corrected about probably, but...

[594] It's two pages.

[595] It's ugly.

[596] And it was written on the notepad in the Ramsey house with their pen.

[597] So the killer did this and then wrote a three -page ransom note, just chilled the fuck out and wrote a note.

[598] Yeah.

[599] Like, who would do that?

[600] Right.

[601] And she was already dead in the basement from blunt force trauma.

[602] She had blunt force trauma at her head, which would have killed her, but she was then strangled, which is what ended up killing her for real.

[603] It's just so fucked up.

[604] And the ransom note is incredible.

[605] Also, the fact that there are children playing out in your alley right now so we can hear her screaming.

[606] I wonder you can hear that in the background.

[607] It's the perfect background.

[608] No, it's perfect.

[609] It's good.

[610] It just was, I was like, why am I so uncomfortable right now?

[611] And I'm like, because there's a child screaming somewhere.

[612] Oh, it's all so wrong.

[613] It's so upset.

[614] Go listen to the, I know you hate this, but listen to the 911 call.

[615] I can't do it.

[616] Is it Patsy?

[617] It's Patsy freaking the fuck out.

[618] But the wording in her call, and if you, like, listen to it and listen to the interpretation.

[619] Like, she's saying everything wrong.

[620] Like, what?

[621] Like, she's not saying, my daughter is missing.

[622] She's saying, we have a kidnapping.

[623] Like, she's not taking personal responsibility for what's going, like, for what is happening to her or her daughter.

[624] Right.

[625] She's kind of making it more generalized.

[626] She's setting up a story, it sounds like.

[627] Yeah.

[628] And there's all these interpretations people say about, like, you know, not asking for help they're saying for her daughter she's like begging for someone to deal with it instead of asking for help for her daughter.

[629] Yeah.

[630] And then there's like people say that one of the ways you know they're lying is because they said that their son who was like 10 was asleep upstairs until like after the police had got there but in the background with analysis with the 911 call you can hear his voice.

[631] Oh.

[632] Yeah.

[633] And there's just all these little things.

[634] Oh so it could be like some family event took place.

[635] And this was like the clean -up version.

[636] Well, another weird thing is that so they found pineapple during the autopsy in her stomach that she had eaten before she died because it hadn't been digested.

[637] And there was a bowl of pineapple with a spoon in it on the table and the son's fingerprints were on the bowl.

[638] But the parents said that they put her right to bed when they got home from a Christmas party that night.

[639] That's the thing.

[640] It happened on Christmas Eve or Christmas Eve.

[641] Yeah.

[642] Christmas Eve.

[643] Yeah.

[644] Yeah.

[645] Because that's why there was no good cops.

[646] Right.

[647] All the good cops were at home having Christmas.

[648] Weren't living in Boulder, Colorado.

[649] Yeah.

[650] And then, okay, the other weird thing in the ransom note, the kid, okay, so these people are billionaires.

[651] Yeah.

[652] And the killer asked for the ransom.

[653] They made it look like a kidnapping, which is why they were with ransom note.

[654] They asked for $118 ,000 as the ransom.

[655] Which like, poor people, like, that's a lot of money.

[656] It's not a lot of money.

[657] But.

[658] Also, that's a very specific amount, and it's also the amount that John Ramsey had been given as a Christmas bonus that year.

[659] Do you think they were trying to set it up to make it look like someone knew that in there?

[660] That's why it was such a specific number?

[661] Yes.

[662] Like they were trying to lead people away from themselves.

[663] Yes, definitely.

[664] Wow.

[665] Well, the whole note does that too.

[666] And then, but the other weird thing I think we talked about this is that when they were doing sample handwritings of the mom and dad.

[667] So Patsy Ramsey, who's the mother, was how to rewrite the note.

[668] And instead of writing $118 ,000 numerically, she wrote out $118 ,000.

[669] Like, who the fuck does that?

[670] Like, that's so stupid.

[671] Obviously, you're trying to mask something.

[672] Unless she loves calligraphy, and that's her thing.

[673] Well, they basically, a bunch of handwriting analysis said that it's her handwriting.

[674] Really?

[675] Without a doubt.

[676] Really?

[677] Yeah.

[678] But then I've read other stuff that it's his as well.

[679] it's even then though if it's like some kind of in -family murder whoever wrote the note doesn't mean that's the killer it's just that they're it's collusion exactly is that the right way to use that word yeah well let us know tell us correct us I'm gonna throw out stuff like that yeah because it feels good in my brain it felt good when you said it I was like yeah she's right that's collusion god damn it and they're like that's actually a rare alcohol from Fiji?

[680] I'll have a collusion on the rocks, please.

[681] I just love the story because I'm equally convinced that it's one of the parents, that it's both of the parents, that it's the son, but I don't think it's anyone outside the family.

[682] Now, what's the deal with the son?

[683] So the son was like, I think he was 10.

[684] He had hit her with a golf club in the face, but it was an accident supposedly.

[685] People all over the, you know, I don't know if you know this, but people on the internet have theories and talk about them.

[686] Oh, yeah.

[687] So people's theories are that it was him.

[688] He hit her over the head with like a golf club or something, which is because she has blunt force trauma from being hit with something.

[689] Yeah.

[690] So then maybe she was dying and one of the parents killed her to make, and then set it up to make a like a kidnapping and a murder so that the son wouldn't get in trouble for it.

[691] But, I mean, talk about picking a favorite child.

[692] Yeah.

[693] That's a little, he never got he didn't get spoken to by the police for a month and when he did it was like quick nothing right but he's so young I don't know I remember reading that they after the first night the cops that had never been cops before showed up to not secure the scene then whatever they talked to them about that night they the Patsy and John right John John yeah they also weren't interviewed for a month they had so much time to rehearse what their story would be.

[694] Definitely.

[695] And lock it all down.

[696] I mean, just the fact that like they had searched the house multiple times over and finally were like sent John the father to go search the house just to give him something to do.

[697] And he goes into the secret wine room off the weird basement and happens to find her after eight hours of the cops having had been there.

[698] Wow.

[699] Grabbs her body, takes the tape off of her mouth and brings her upstairs, thus ruining any DNA evidence that you could have used.

[700] And then Patsy throws herself on the body.

[701] She did.

[702] Yeah.

[703] So the DNA shit is just fucked.

[704] I mean, that's all guilty.

[705] Is it though?

[706] I kind of wonder, though, like.

[707] I don't know.

[708] Would you, well, hard to say.

[709] I don't think I would throw myself onto the body of a dead child.

[710] No, no. I mean, I don't know.

[711] Hard to say.

[712] Let's reenact this.

[713] Let's have a child.

[714] Okay.

[715] And let's have it murdered.

[716] Six years from now.

[717] I just can't the idea of like a real quick problem solve.

[718] Okay, junior messed up again, this guy.

[719] Boys will be boys.

[720] I'm in a strangle her to death.

[721] Yeah.

[722] Yeah.

[723] It's so much.

[724] It's such a, it's such an oversolve.

[725] It's a big from A to B. Plus, wouldn't she want your fucking psychopath kid who ruined your, like, killed your prized daughter to get in trouble for that?

[726] Some people don't.

[727] I don't know.

[728] I mean, yeah, she, that's where that theory falls part for me. She is clearly the prize pony.

[729] Right, which is why maybe he wanted to kill her.

[730] Of course.

[731] But then, so I see them covering, I see them covering like note wise and bad, bad 911 call wise and all that.

[732] Just not killing her.

[733] But not the killing.

[734] Maybe she, they didn't know she wasn't dead yet.

[735] put the over her.

[736] No, she was breathing.

[737] I don't know.

[738] I mean, we're not going to solve it tonight.

[739] Are we?

[740] Oh, I thought that's what this podcast was.

[741] I mean, let's not even talk about the underwear she had on, the weird underwear she had on, that they found DNA on it that didn't match the family.

[742] It was not the brother's DNA.

[743] No. That she was sexually assaulted.

[744] But they also said that it looked like it was, it had been, you know, over a period of time.

[745] It wasn't even like that night she was sexually assaulted.

[746] It was like, this is something that's been happening for a long time.

[747] So here's where we'd give you some updates.

[748] If the case has any, unfortunately, as you definitely know, this case doesn't have any.

[749] It's still cold.

[750] It's still being looked into.

[751] But, you know, there's really no new findings.

[752] I mean, if anything, it does have the feeling on par with Jack the Ripper, where the theories, the stuff is starting to pile up, the accusations, then people getting cleared.

[753] Like, I remember, wasn't, weren't Patsy and the father cleared?

[754] Yes, by the DA.

[755] Recently or something.

[756] Yeah, but it was so sketchy.

[757] Oh, was it?

[758] Yeah.

[759] But it was after her death, right?

[760] Yeah, I think so.

[761] And here we go again.

[762] Yeah, I know, Jesus Christ.

[763] We can't even change.

[764] This is like, it's fucking, we're trying to give ourselves a take too, and we can't even do it.

[765] This is what we'll comment on in eight and a half years when we're commenting on the commenting on episodes.

[766] Jesus Christ.

[767] Oh, my God.

[768] Anyway, but point being the frustration of those kinds of cases where the more people talk about it, the less people seem to know.

[769] Yeah.

[770] And the more like just theories and, you know, info that gets thrown in, the more muddled it gets somehow in a way that it'll never get solved.

[771] Well, and also just saying that, being aware, saying that, where it's like people giving their opinion, you know, I don't believe in the owl theory or whatever.

[772] Right.

[773] That's opinion.

[774] But, but people do in true crime, of course, take it so far where it's like, no, they did it.

[775] It's this surety of the conversation, I think, is the thing that it ends up really screwing people in the end, which again is why we constantly reminded people, we don't know what we're talking about.

[776] Watch the documentary.

[777] And sometimes the documentary doesn't know what they're talking about.

[778] So, I mean, and sometimes we'll learn in life, no one knows what they're fucking talking about.

[779] Right.

[780] So we're about to go into my story here.

[781] Here's the thing, A plus to us for structure on this thing.

[782] The structure of this show makes sense.

[783] Yeah.

[784] It's so workable.

[785] It's, we stuck to it.

[786] That's really, that is funny that we never had to make a structure change.

[787] No. Because it was so, this scaffolding was solid from day fucking one.

[788] You tell me, I tell you.

[789] That's like it.

[790] And it's a surprise.

[791] Yeah.

[792] Fun times.

[793] Always.

[794] Right.

[795] For my story, I covered the East Area rapist.

[796] I think it was before Michelle's article where she renamed him the Golden State Killer.

[797] Am I right about that?

[798] Yeah.

[799] I mean, this is just so eerie that you covered this case and there's so much, I mean, there's so much that happened.

[800] after you covered it.

[801] These are two cases where yours, nothing's ever happened.

[802] And mine, it got solved.

[803] It got solved.

[804] Michelle McNamara wrote a book about this case.

[805] A very incredible Los Angeles magazine article about this case, renaming DeAngelo, the Golden State Killer.

[806] Paul Holes gets introduced into the storyline.

[807] And then, as we all know, Michelle passed away, I think it was about three months after this episode came out.

[808] Yeah.

[809] And then Joseph James DeAngelo was captured and arrested a little over two years after this episode came out.

[810] Yeah.

[811] Wild.

[812] So wild.

[813] And something no one ever imagined.

[814] I mean, I think that looking back, that piece of looking back is so incredibly satisfying.

[815] Yeah.

[816] What if we could make a podcast where you could look back on all of them and be like, and then it got solved?

[817] that's the so satisfying it's kind of the point i think people are in here going hey this is important yeah these people have to be like we're talking about serial killers people who who have to be found yeah who their cases need to be solved so those people don't get to walk around killing people serially right and i think this is kind of the biggest example of that too so yeah incredible yeah here we go.

[818] Hey, Karen.

[819] What's your favorite murder?

[820] My favorite murder.

[821] Can you write a ballad for this?

[822] Can you write like a...

[823] Totally.

[824] I'll do like kind of a hang -em -high, like, murder ballad about...

[825] Yes.

[826] That actually makes me...

[827] I really don't like those songs.

[828] Those, like, old Appalachian country songs.

[829] I just had to kill her.

[830] It's always just like, well, she done me wrong.

[831] I just had to hang her high.

[832] Or it's like, fuck you.

[833] Sing about her parents and how bum they are.

[834] Sing about someone rising up and shooting you in the back of the shotgun as you go to do it.

[835] Right.

[836] Because you're a jerk.

[837] Anyhow, mine isn't about that.

[838] Mine is about a serial killer that some call the original night stalker and others called the East Area rapist.

[839] So this is a guy that was a rapist in Sacramento in the mid to late 70s.

[840] And I went to college in Sacramento.

[841] And it's a, it's a strangest place.

[842] It's a floodplain, and it's the capital of the state, and it's very hot most of the time.

[843] It's kind of like Wild West almost, right?

[844] Yeah, it feels, there's a real, like, it doesn't feel like California at all.

[845] Yeah.

[846] And there's almost no culture whatsoever.

[847] It's like, it's a lot of Taco Bells next to Shell stations over and over underneath power lines.

[848] And maybe that was just the experience I was having there because I went to college there and I flunked out of college a year and a half in.

[849] Failed terribly.

[850] But anytime I would drive around, I'd be like, this is the worst.

[851] Like, everything just seemed scary and awful to me. Sounds like a nightmare.

[852] And then these surrounding suburbs, like Citrus Heights and these kind of like outline and this area where this East Area rapist was going.

[853] nuts for years, has this very, like, sinister, it's like nice on the outside, but something weird's going on feeling.

[854] Everything is beige.

[855] That's where I grew up in Orange County in Irvine, beige.

[856] And actually, I think he came to Irvine.

[857] He did.

[858] That was second half.

[859] That's right.

[860] So he started out as the East Area rapist, and he wasn't killing people yet.

[861] He was just raping women.

[862] He was breaking into houses.

[863] So he did the thing.

[864] He did the recon the day before.

[865] He would go, oftentimes people would say, we heard something on the roof and we didn't even look.

[866] Oh my God.

[867] That's why I brought that thing up earlier.

[868] He would also break into the houses and look around, do stuff in the houses while they weren't there.

[869] Sometimes he would hide rope under the couch cushions and have stuff ready.

[870] So they're ready.

[871] So he was all ready.

[872] Oh my God.

[873] That made me want to throw up.

[874] Yeah.

[875] He was sinister.

[876] And then so basically then he would break into their house the night of, turn the light of, on, the couple would be sleeping.

[877] That's what, this one troubles me the most about this.

[878] Is that he would do it to couples.

[879] So he would flash a flashlight in their eyes, tell them to wake up, he'd have a gun on them, he'd have a ski mask.

[880] And then he would tell the woman to tie up the man. Right.

[881] Then he would go to the kitchen and get a stack of dishes and bring it back and stick it on the man's back.

[882] And then he would say to the man, if I hear these dishes move, I will kill both of you.

[883] Then he'd take the woman usually, I think it was like half and half, but I think most of the time he would take the woman out into the front room and he would tie her up there and rape her while the husband could hear in the bedroom.

[884] Sometimes he would do it there.

[885] And then, so in the beginning, he was just raping the women and leaving both of them.

[886] And he also, while he was doing it, he would talk in a high -pitched voice to himself.

[887] To himself?

[888] Which is, just think of it.

[889] Just think of, so you're already in this, like, craze panic.

[890] Yeah.

[891] Right?

[892] I mean, this is what I do with all these stories, is I just, even for a second, and try to put yourself there.

[893] I'm there.

[894] I'm there right now.

[895] So you're jolted out of sleep.

[896] Yeah.

[897] To this weird like, what the fuck?

[898] And then it's like, someone that's talking like this.

[899] You know what I mean?

[900] Like, there was one thing I just read where he said he was, he was repeating to himself, I'm going to kill him, I'm going to kill him, like chanting it to himself as he was tying him up.

[901] Fuck, no. So he seems, there's also a phone call with him.

[902] He left a victim, a message.

[903] a week later, and I have not listened to it.

[904] Is it there?

[905] Can you listen?

[906] You can listen to it.

[907] I think I think, because whose wife just wrote a really amazing article about that?

[908] Michelle McNamara.

[909] It's Pat Nosswald's wife.

[910] She is such a fucking badass.

[911] She wrote the best article about it, and I had never heard of it before.

[912] Yeah, she has an amazing blog.

[913] We will look it up and tell you it has the word murder in it.

[914] But if you put Michelle McNamara in the Google search and murder blog, Also, don't kill me for, I don't mean to call her someone's wife.

[915] That's not who she is.

[916] She's more than that.

[917] She's clearly so much more.

[918] Right.

[919] That's, right.

[920] Yeah, but this is how you know her.

[921] But I know about this serial killer because there's, you know, it's funny when you're, like, when you follow this and then it's like, you see one story that's on forensic files or something.

[922] And then you see it, and you piece it together where it's like, these, the later murders were reported first on shows like that, like 2020.

[923] So it was like the murders in Goleta and Ventura and Dana Point.

[924] And then separately they would report on the East area rapist that was this ridiculous.

[925] He had over 50 rape victims and 10 murder victims.

[926] And they never caught him.

[927] That's what's okay.

[928] So here's the thing.

[929] They never fuck.

[930] And you know, they said that maybe he was a construction worker.

[931] Right.

[932] Yeah.

[933] Because he had really intimate knowledge of how these.

[934] These houses and their backyards were set up.

[935] Right.

[936] And they did find a map once that was hand drawn.

[937] But when he would get caught or people, what any time there was a close call, because he liked to mess around and like almost get caught or like do really dangerous things.

[938] So there would be a neighbor that would like flip on a light and be like, And then they would watch him run and vault like backyard fences and stuff.

[939] Like he was in crazy good shape.

[940] Yeah.

[941] And he was like he, I think, fancied himself a cat burglar.

[942] But then also clearly just was, you know, yeah.

[943] But the, the, so the creepiest thing, my favorite creepy thing is they, there were so many rapes that were happening in Sacramento that they had a town meeting, like a community meeting.

[944] You know he was there, right?

[945] Well, yeah, that's.

[946] Tell me, tell me. So, and this, somebody, somebody took a picture of it for the paper.

[947] No. So they have a group shot of this town meeting.

[948] And the cops saying, this is what's happening.

[949] This is the M .O. Look out for this.

[950] If you hear something, report it, report it, look, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[951] If you see weird people walking.

[952] Oh, because also there was never a car found anywhere near the scene.

[953] He either walked, jogged, rode a bike, or did something parked far away.

[954] Yeah.

[955] Because, and the couple times there was a guy walking a dog.

[956] But every time they described the guy is looking.

[957] white and like fit and normal like it's that kind of thing um where they it's the person who can fit in totally and is totally fitting in and being like a weird murder cuddlefish fitting in and then disappearing yeah so but my favorite thing is so they had this town meeting and at one point the cops were just saying oh this is happening and people are really angry because it's so many it's like in the 30s at this point and this man stands up and says I don't think you're telling us everything we need to know, I don't think this is even possible.

[958] How can a man break into another man's home?

[959] And that man has his wife raped right in front of him and he does nothing.

[960] That's impossible.

[961] Two weeks later, that man and his wife.

[962] Yes, his wife was raped by the East Area rapist two weeks later.

[963] So they know for a fact he was there.

[964] So there's a photo and is like everyone identified in it except for one?

[965] No, because it's like such a large group photo.

[966] It's like the photographer was standing on the stage in like a, you know, a high school auditorium look.

[967] So there's just, it's, it's really awesome because a lot of times on specials, they'll just take that time to scan that photo.

[968] And every face in the photo looks guilty.

[969] Every face is the scariest thing you've ever seen.

[970] It's crazy.

[971] That's so crazy.

[972] Yeah, there's like a, there's like a sketch of him.

[973] And I'm like, whose dad is that?

[974] Because that guy was young in the 70s, right?

[975] It's probably someone's fucking dad now.

[976] Yeah, or even grandpa.

[977] Grandpa, some mom's boyfriend.

[978] Horrifying.

[979] And the thing that he, like his serious problem with couples.

[980] Yeah.

[981] And like needing to degrade the man and rape the woman.

[982] There's like, there's so much there.

[983] Because that makes it so much harder.

[984] The crime's so much harder.

[985] So he's clearly specifically doing it for a reason.

[986] Yeah.

[987] And he's doing it so much.

[988] Like he just did it and kept on doing it.

[989] It was just a thing that was happening in Sacramento, for years.

[990] And then he, so it was like 76 is when he started the summer of 76.

[991] And then I think it that happened.

[992] It went on for two years in Sacramento.

[993] Then he went to the East Bay.

[994] And then somewhere, I think he went down further, Visalia, because they think that's where he started.

[995] They called them the Visalia Ransacker.

[996] Oh my God.

[997] Which is like, central.

[998] It's where that they're both called the Nightstocker, though.

[999] I know.

[1000] Because it was pre.

[1001] Richard Romero.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] It was.

[1004] But it was like, that's really what he was doing.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] Because he would go and scope it out beforehand.

[1007] But he just wasn't famous.

[1008] And he basically kind of disappeared.

[1009] Then when those other, those same MO murders, rapes and murders were happening down here, that's when they finally put it together.

[1010] And there was finally like, they say that that case in the 70s is why they started developing the DNA database in California.

[1011] Oh.

[1012] Because they were going so crazy about not.

[1013] not being able to find him.

[1014] So they could all link him together.

[1015] Yeah, I think it happened in Irvine in like the early 80s, I think, when I lived there when I was a baby.

[1016] Oh.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] And he's still around to, he could potentially still be around.

[1019] Is he still killing?

[1020] Or did we just not that anything has happened?

[1021] Not that anybody knows.

[1022] Not in that way.

[1023] Not like he, you know, he would type people up with very special knots.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] But Michelle McNamara wrote these amazing articles.

[1026] If you want to know more about it, like she's gone into it in such a detail.

[1027] It was in LA Magazine.

[1028] She had an article in LA Magazine and she has a ton of stuff on her website.

[1029] I just want to know.

[1030] I just want to know the answer.

[1031] I think that for all these things, and it's funny that we're both talking about murders that are unsolved.

[1032] Because I just want to know, I want the problem solved.

[1033] Like I want the, what's the answer to the riddle?

[1034] And you want it, like, you want there to be a better policing system.

[1035] Right.

[1036] where this doesn't happen so often.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] It's so easy to point to like, well, what did they do wrong?

[1039] And it's so easy to point to it.

[1040] And you hope that it doesn't happen anymore, but it does.

[1041] Because this was back in the 70s where they intentionally withheld information if they were like crossing counties.

[1042] And it was all that weird police politics that I think they, you know, they know better now and they don't do anymore.

[1043] But, God, it's like the dark ages.

[1044] Here's one thing coming back out of that.

[1045] Here's one thing I'm going to say about all of the stories.

[1046] you're about to hear for the first, I don't know, maybe 30 episodes, well, less than that, I would think.

[1047] But for this, we were just talking.

[1048] There was nothing written down.

[1049] It wasn't research -based.

[1050] It was not even not researched.

[1051] It was just like, I'll remember what I know about this, which is the ego of that is insane.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] It's also like, here are the things about this case that's made it stuck in my mind, but not the details right not dates and that and that was a very important and we learned that one very quickly which is like within a couple the feedback where it's like these are real people yeah these are real cases if you're going to talk about them give the respect and it was like oh my god you're so right we don't we were just kind of like having a chat yeah but you're right don't don't be citing these cases incorrectly or not knowing people's names, all of it.

[1054] And that was like that kind of thing where you're like, oh, of course.

[1055] I'm so embarrassed, yes, of course.

[1056] I've got to slap some respect on this.

[1057] And also not citing sources.

[1058] Thank God we started doing that regularly.

[1059] I mean, you can't have sources if you don't have a document you're reading off of.

[1060] So at least the source, you know, Michelle McNamara was the source for me being able to retell this story.

[1061] But yeah, the source lesson we learned soon after this where there's so much material in the true crime world that floats around and that is the hard work of journalists that have broken those stories and chased down those stories and put the book or the article or whatever together.

[1062] And that's the kind of thing, you know, as a professional television writer, I was very embarrassed by that where I was just like, oh, right, yeah, Yeah, this has all been made possible by the journalists and the writers that have collected these stories already, or the TV producers.

[1063] Right, totally.

[1064] The one thing we do really get right here is like this professional thing we do at the end basically setting this thing up of like, hey, audience, play ball with us.

[1065] Yeah.

[1066] Which was, as we've said a million times, that's the magic sauce.

[1067] The audience being in this conversation with us.

[1068] Definitely.

[1069] Yeah, we got really lucky.

[1070] So lucky that my personal email address that I gave out originally still gets hometown sent to it.

[1071] That's like how new we were.

[1072] I was like, send them to my email address.

[1073] Here it is.

[1074] And I like don't, I don't visit that email address anymore.

[1075] It's like a wasteland of like, you know, ads and weird shit.

[1076] Probably the weirdest shit.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] So funny.

[1079] Now it's a you can call Georgia at her home number 818.

[1080] So this is the part of our podcast where we want to hear your stories.

[1081] You tell us what you, what horrible things you love.

[1082] We want to, yeah, we want to hear about your, like, crazy fucked up crime story from your town or that you encountered or that happened to you.

[1083] And we want to hear in your own words, right?

[1084] Be honest.

[1085] Be honest.

[1086] Email them to.

[1087] My favorite murder at gmail .com.

[1088] If you spell that wrong, it's your own damn fault.

[1089] At Gmail.

[1090] And then we'll also record other people that we're friends with.

[1091] telling their stories too.

[1092] Because everybody has a story about some fucked up thing that happened in their town that they're kind of obsessed with.

[1093] And if it's not, it doesn't have to be murder, murder.

[1094] No, no, no, no, no, anything.

[1095] Just be a creepy, what's creepy?

[1096] Yeah, a fucked up story that you can't tell certain people at parties.

[1097] Yeah, because certain people will walk away with like a weird white face and rolling their eyes at you.

[1098] This is a safe space for you.

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] Thanks for listening, everyone.

[1101] Guys, this was the first one.

[1102] You guys, our very first favorite murder.

[1103] But not the last.

[1104] No. These rewind episodes are going to be insane.

[1105] They really got into their lawsuit era at that moment.

[1106] It was crazy.

[1107] Since it's our lawsuit era, should we talk about when people demand that we speak online, we never can because of contracts?

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] Because we understand that you want us to come and explain everything and make it right.

[1110] write for you and we really wish we could.

[1111] And actually in 20 years when we write the tell all book, you will know.

[1112] And you know what we're talking about.

[1113] And I would like to thank there's always one lawyer murderino in the comments going, guys, they might not be able to talk about it.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] And it's like, oh my God, scream that.

[1116] Please.

[1117] Please put it at the top.

[1118] You know us.

[1119] How much shit do we talk on a regular, literally not allowed to talk about any of it?

[1120] Like, Oh, God, you guys.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] Ask us in person.

[1123] I mean, you know, we are no strangers to controversy.

[1124] As most people who have listened to this podcast know, there's been a lot of shit that's gone down.

[1125] Eight and a half years, it's, like, kind of hard to avoid.

[1126] Eight and a half years of talking about stuff people do not want two women to be talking about.

[1127] Right.

[1128] Being very opinionated.

[1129] But there is one thing we do really want to say that we kind of aren't allowed to say, but we do want to say to you guys.

[1130] Sure.

[1131] And yeah, there's a few things that we wish we could just blur and talk about and rewind about.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] If we could go over all the real details in detail, the way people we know have wanted us to in the past, we would love it more than anything else.

[1134] That's for our second memoir.

[1135] Okay.

[1136] So at the end of every episode, we thought it would be fun to do something that we do now that we never thought of doing.

[1137] Because instead we named these episodes number puns for.

[1138] some fucking reason.

[1139] Now we name them after something silly that was said in the episode or something.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] No one wanted to do the number pun work anymore after I think 26.

[1142] A long time, longer than it should have been.

[1143] It went on forever.

[1144] And I just want to say, I don't think it was my idea because it's puns.

[1145] That's true.

[1146] It probably wasn't, but you were there with me while we were making them up.

[1147] You're right.

[1148] Look, I signed on just saying.

[1149] We tried.

[1150] But on our main show, at the end of every record, our producer Alejandra reads us a list of phrases that we said that could be funny that could serve as the show's title.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] So we thought it would be fun if Alhandra read us some suggestions of what the title could be if we were doing the new version of title now.

[1153] Right.

[1154] Right.

[1155] What currently would we name this if it wasn't the stupid fucking number pun?

[1156] Well, don't shit on the number pun.

[1157] What would we think if it wasn't the number pun?

[1158] So Alejandra, let us know the weird shit we've said.

[1159] through this episode.

[1160] All right, here we go.

[1161] Cozy and comfy, Georgia, when you were just laying down on your couch, getting ready, swirling of brandy, Karen also getting comfy.

[1162] I love this topic, and that's why we're friends, and that's just you guys talking about True Kremat's top.

[1163] Shoulder grab moment when you both read the party talking about the staircase.

[1164] And Owl did it.

[1165] That's exactly right.

[1166] Is that the first time we said it?

[1167] Wow.

[1168] Oh, my God.

[1169] And then collusion on the rocks.

[1170] That's the one.

[1171] See, whichever one of us starts fucking busting up laughing, that's the title.

[1172] We're going to skip.

[1173] That's exactly right.

[1174] And go to collusion on the rocks.

[1175] Collusion on the rocks.

[1176] That's what this episode would be called, right?

[1177] That's a good one.

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] Okay, let's do that.

[1180] Well, thanks for rewinding with us, you guys.

[1181] Hopefully some new people have come.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] Done a little.

[1184] This is like a flight of a podcast.

[1185] We're giving her a taste test of all the different flavor.

[1186] that are in this podcast.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] There's many more flavors.

[1189] You can go listen to the full episode if you want.

[1190] Yeah, trust us when we tell you that if you listen to this episode and then you listen to the most current episode, you won't be lost.

[1191] No. And all of the sound is a little better, but it's a lot better.

[1192] Yeah.

[1193] And if you're, if you think that the phrases that we've come up with, like you're in a cult call your dad, if you don't know the source of that, therefore that's going to create confusion for you, it's absolutely not.

[1194] No. I don't even remember why I said it.

[1195] I think it was something about.

[1196] Yeah, it was Jonestown and I always thought like, I remember.

[1197] It was Johnstown?

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] Really?

[1200] Yeah.

[1201] Stay out of the forest.

[1202] That's another episode.

[1203] I mean, we just say it.

[1204] We talk a lot of shit.

[1205] That's the thing.

[1206] That's right.

[1207] You know.

[1208] And then we didn't, I don't know when we started saying our fucking sign off, but.

[1209] I think we said at the end of this that we needed sign offs and then we just made shit up off the top of our head.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] All right.

[1212] Well, then should we?

[1213] But.

[1214] this up let's do it okay thanks for listening to rewind yeah we appreciate you guys stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye goodbye whoa oh my god can we keep that oh no yeah Elvis do you want a cookie