Gwyneth Paltrow Returns

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[1] I'm Dach Shepherd.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Lilly.

[3] Hello.

[4] Did you ever consider having Monica Lily as an acting stage name?

[5] Shit, no. That sounds like you could have gotten yourself on, like, Melrose Place or something.

[6] If you were Monica Lily.

[7] I would have loved that.

[8] Also kind of sounds like a porn name.

[9] I hate to say it.

[10] Well, I would have had options.

[11] You got to always keep your option open.

[12] Talk about someone who's got a lot of options.

[13] Gwyneth P. P. P. P. Love her.

[14] I don't know what her middle initial is, but I do hope it's a P. Oh, I want.

[15] Gwyneth Paltrow.

[16] This is her second go -round here at Armchair.

[17] Yep.

[18] And it was just as fun as the last time.

[19] She is an Academy Award -winning actor.

[20] She's an entrepreneur is what she is.

[21] And an author.

[22] She has a new show coming out on Netflix called Sex, Love, and Goop.

[23] Sex, Love, and Goop follows a group of courageous couples as they journey towards more pleasurable sex and intimacy with the help of a team of experts.

[24] Sadly, I wasn't called to be an expert.

[25] I'm so sorry about that.

[26] Maybe season two.

[27] Yeah.

[28] Please enjoy Gwyneth Paltrow.

[29] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[30] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[31] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[32] Let's start with your shoes.

[33] Tell me about these.

[34] They're very exciting.

[35] My eyes drawn to them.

[36] The whole outfit.

[37] Yeah.

[38] Make him feel good These are J .W. Anderson High tops.

[39] Okay.

[40] They're so cool.

[41] I'm very into them.

[42] I like big shoes.

[43] Because you're so short.

[44] You want a little boost.

[45] You don't think they're too chunky.

[46] No, I love them.

[47] I love them too.

[48] Are they on the site?

[49] No. In fact, which is crazy because we actually sell J .W. shoes, and I don't know why we didn't sell these.

[50] And then I saw them in a store.

[51] And then I had to scooped them up.

[52] I had to scoop them.

[53] I was going to make a bad gooped them up, hon. Oh, make it.

[54] But I thought better of it, but I still did it.

[55] Wait, what?

[56] You said she scooped them up.

[57] Oh, gooped them up.

[58] I gooped them up.

[59] Okay, so the last time you were here.

[60] Yeah.

[61] How long ago was I here?

[62] Six or seven years ago, I think.

[63] It was probably two years ago.

[64] At least, right?

[65] Or more, yeah.

[66] Really?

[67] Yeah.

[68] I don't know how.

[69] Oh, you are with time, but I have less and a less of grasp on time.

[70] What are you taking?

[71] Nicotine mints.

[72] Your neck smoker, right?

[73] Yes.

[74] And it rained today.

[75] Did you not get in your car today?

[76] I dropped the kids off at school.

[77] I dropped them off.

[78] And then as I was pulling away, I rolled the windows down because I was liking the smell.

[79] And I was like, oh, if I could fucking light up a camel light right now.

[80] Camelite was my kind.

[81] Oh, wow.

[82] Such a good cigarette, wasn't it?

[83] It's such a good one.

[84] They don't even make that cigarette anymore, right?

[85] You're joking.

[86] Exactly.

[87] Exactly.

[88] We've been out of the game too long.

[89] They, I think I've outlawed, like, light cigarettes, period, because it's misleading.

[90] They're not very, they're not light.

[91] You're kidding.

[92] There's no camel lights anymore.

[93] Hold on a second, because there was a real difference between the feel of a camel light and like a camel regular.

[94] Big time.

[95] A camel regular was like, there was also cheese burning it or something.

[96] It was too, it was too, there was too much.

[97] It was too much.

[98] It hurt.

[99] Yeah.

[100] It hurt.

[101] But I could bang back a pack and a half of camelites at night having cocktails.

[102] and I felt great the next day.

[103] I was like, wake up, brush your teeth, get a coffee, light a cigarette.

[104] Okay, so I smoked in bed.

[105] Like, this is how I used to wake up.

[106] It would be like grabbing for the lighter and hoping I don't hit the ashtray, which is completely full from the night before.

[107] And then like having to get it lit before I committed to open my eyes.

[108] Like, okay, now I can do it.

[109] Oh, admit it's so gross.

[110] It's so gross.

[111] When you look back, oh my God.

[112] It is gross.

[113] But it does look cool.

[114] It does.

[115] That's why people did.

[116] Did it.

[117] Did it.

[118] I'm going to say did because people aren't doing it anymore.

[119] You know what's awesome is like, did it.

[120] And with no embarrassment whatsoever, like, there's so many pictures of me in the 90s.

[121] Every premiere I have a cigarette in my hand.

[122] Every fashion show, cigarette, cigarette, cigarette.

[123] Yeah, you're looking like Jack Nicholson everywhere you go.

[124] Awesome.

[125] So my ex -girlfriend, Bray and I, we lived in a one -bedroom apartment in Santa Monica for 10 years.

[126] And we were both heavy, heavy smokers.

[127] I now think about When non -smokers came to that little apartment It must have been dreadful in there And you don't need I never even thought of that I know Did you ever have a smaller apartment Like in New York where you were banging darts?

[128] Did it ever happen to you?

[129] Ripping a heater?

[130] Yeah I had a studio apartment on 10th Street And yeah Sit in there all winter Windows closed Chain smoking Oh, no, I just realized something bad.

[131] What?

[132] Our stand -up isn't in here anymore.

[133] It's in the shower.

[134] I could have liked that, I bet.

[135] I saw it with you and Matt James.

[136] Yeah, okay, you saw it good.

[137] He's the greatest.

[138] I've worked with him a couple times.

[139] He's the best actor, and he's so, he's great.

[140] I loved working with him so much.

[141] Okay, Wobby Wob is being nice enough to get it out of the...

[142] People are going to start asking.

[143] They like it in the pictures.

[144] They like the reminder that love is, real.

[145] Yeah, why didn't we remove it?

[146] We had some other kind of commitment.

[147] What is Dolph and Asparagus?

[148] Oh, my God.

[149] Okay.

[150] So it is my, well, it's not just my...

[151] Wait, hold on.

[152] Look how happy you look.

[153] I know.

[154] I've never seen that look on her...

[155] No, there's a better one, actually.

[156] I have on my phone.

[157] There's one where he's kissing my head, and you can't...

[158] And the look on her face is beyond description.

[159] I'm like, I've known you for a long time, and I've not seen you smile like that.

[160] It's like, oh, my God, is it a beautiful moment?

[161] That's pretty cute.

[162] Okay, so...

[163] Hashtaghtaghtaghton asparagus.

[164] So, we have talked on here a few times about people that are romantically attracted to dolphins.

[165] There's a documentary about people who have, like, been in love with dolphins.

[166] Because dolphins are pretty sexual.

[167] The males are.

[168] The males want to have sex with humans.

[169] They constantly are trying to have sex.

[170] No way.

[171] This is not up for debate.

[172] They tried to hump humans all the time.

[173] I'm not making a case that anyone should love a...

[174] female dolphin because they're not like that.

[175] But a male dolphin is down to party.

[176] I'm not going to ensnare you in this because it'll be in headlines.

[177] I'm going to take your word for it.

[178] The bottom lane is, it was an argument.

[179] Monica, of course, was like, people aren't in love with dolphins.

[180] I saw a documentary about scientists that fell in love with the dolphin, blah, blah, blah.

[181] I said, if you are in the audience and you would like to acknowledge that you're attracted, the dolphins, just hashtag dolphin asparagus, very arbitrary, just dolphin asparagus.

[182] And we got a dozen or so folks that dolphin asparagus so now it's kind of a thing dolphin asparagus not to say that matt is into dolphins at all it looks like that is what we're kind of saying yeah you are saying okay so really quick because i just want your real life reaction to this so the last time you're here i was on crutches i had gotten a surgery on my toe right why had you had it again the surgery i have arthritis and one of the knuckles was like frozen in that I said can you on and they said yeah well we'll go in there and we can make it straight but when I got the x -ray the podiatrist said also the arc of your foot's kind of not right I'd like to shorten this all together and I'm not a podiatrist so I was like okay sign me up I'm gonna be under you're doing the other thing yeah let's knock it out uh -oh you saw me at a little boot on I was unaware of this at this time so you have to see the results of this operation oh shoes are coming off okay yeah because this is my wife's favorite picture she has of my my foot okay so look at the length of this toe now well ignore this because that's stage two of this story okay you notice that is half the size of this toe yeah so that's well done doc and you can see the scar here and then what happened additionally was now this one's curving completely over because there's no resistance because that toes are now a miniature toe have you ever seen a foot so disturbing i feel like I think I'm in a Lord of the Rings or something.

[183] Let's get you in the mood for Halloween.

[184] That's what that was for.

[185] Wait, but do you have pain or is it okay?

[186] No, I can't feel anything south of that ankle, really.

[187] Oh, wow.

[188] It is looking.

[189] Oh, it's so gross.

[190] It's not gross.

[191] We got to love all those little toes.

[192] That's right.

[193] Imperfections.

[194] Just one more thing I want you to notice.

[195] So look at how long it is right now.

[196] Right now it's the same length as the fourth toe, as you can see.

[197] I can.

[198] Now watch this trick.

[199] stand up.

[200] It somehow sucks in an inch.

[201] Did we follow up with this podiatrist?

[202] It's worse than that.

[203] Oh, no. So I used to go on Kimmel and I would brag about how good looking my feet were.

[204] It was like the only body part I had that I thought looked elegant and really nice.

[205] I don't think that's true.

[206] Well, thank you so much.

[207] But that was my story at the time.

[208] And so I had a couple like on air where I compared my feet to other people on his staff, and they voted, and I had won.

[209] So I bragged on the show a bunch about it.

[210] And then I went on the show to say, like, update, because I bragged so much, God did this to my foot.

[211] Look what happened.

[212] Harm, a big time.

[213] So then I show it on Kimmel, and I have my foot on the desk, and the whole nine yards, and I get a text from the podiatrist, and he's like, he's really sad.

[214] And he's like, he's sad?

[215] Yeah, that's fair.

[216] Yeah, you got the order of that, right?

[217] Yeah, he's sad.

[218] He says, come in, I didn't know you were so unhappy with the thing.

[219] And then, now I'm super codependent.

[220] I'm like, oh, my God, I love it.

[221] I'm a comedian.

[222] Did you see?

[223] I had a whole segment about the toe.

[224] Like, this is great.

[225] There's nothing to be sorry about.

[226] Everything's great.

[227] And then I was comforting him for a while over this.

[228] That's fucked up.

[229] Yeah.

[230] I feel like you just, someone needs to invent like invisibleine for toes.

[231] and then you'll be...

[232] Ready for flip -flops again?

[233] Yeah.

[234] Yeah, because I can't wear...

[235] I can't wear flops with that foot.

[236] I mean, it's a good conversation piece.

[237] It is.

[238] And look, I've had more than my share of good luck in life.

[239] So if I have a crazy Halloween toe permanently, then whatever.

[240] You know what is weird, though?

[241] It's like, you don't think about this when you're young and healthy and everything's good.

[242] But as you start to get older and things go funny or you need to.

[243] surgery or things age and something happens like a body part is different there's this weird mourning that happens it's like there's this weird grief I don't know like I've had stuff like that too where I'm like wow like I had two Cesarians okay my daughter was an emergency it was crazy we almost died it was like not good anyway it's like there's like there's a big scar across your body and you're like oh wow like that didn't used to be there and it's not that it's bad or you want to judge it but you're just like oh my god or I break my freaking toes all the time because they're really skinny and long.

[244] Okay.

[245] And so my toes, I have the same.

[246] Like, I have, my toes used to be a long.

[247] Do you want my guy's numbers?

[248] Yes, please.

[249] I think because we talked about it, you could probably get like 40, 50 % off the procedure.

[250] Depending on how short you want to go.

[251] Yeah.

[252] Yeah, yeah.

[253] Ew, how short you like.

[254] I like that you said that, though, because I do think a lot of women, after they give birth, they do have some trouble reconciling.

[255] what's their body, what's for the baby, you know, all of it.

[256] Women aren't supposed to have those feelings.

[257] They're supposed to embrace it and like, oh, yeah, this is a reminder of my baby.

[258] And it's like, well, also, it's your own body.

[259] And I don't know.

[260] I think it's good to talk about that.

[261] Yeah.

[262] And then also, thank God there was an Instagram when I had babies because now it's like, if I see someone, oh, I just gave birth two weeks ago and I have a completely washboard stomach.

[263] And I'm like, wow, that's not what I. Yeah.

[264] And great.

[265] More power to the lady with the wash. But it's just like that is totally the exception.

[266] And then now we're being fed all these other images of like what we're supposed to look like all the time.

[267] Babies, no babies, whatever.

[268] There's this weird, like, if you really love this baby, you'll give birth to it in the desert on a full moon with nobody there but you.

[269] Right, right.

[270] I don't dig that pressure.

[271] Yeah, I think, I just think women really need to be friends with each other and, like, all the judgment around how you have a baby.

[272] Do you breastfeed?

[273] Do you not?

[274] This, that.

[275] Are you going to work?

[276] Are you not going to work?

[277] It's like, do you have help?

[278] Guess what?

[279] Whatever it is, it's okay.

[280] I don't know.

[281] I feel like we also have this weird thing around.

[282] I don't it's past perfectionism it's like I can do this gargantuan task that's superhuman and why for what like right right right right I really noticed it when Kristen was pregnant with our first child's like everywhere we went we'd start talking to people with people like are you doing a homebirth uh I don't think so you're but you're not going to get an epidural right and it was like all these layers of like you're going to do this wrong I think a lot of it comes from a good place of people wanting to share what worked for them if they had a good experience, but sometimes it can sound judgmental.

[283] Yeah, but like if I ran into a dude, he's like, are you going to the gym?

[284] I am going in the gym.

[285] Yeah, are you bench pressing 500 pounds?

[286] Like, that's to me what it sounds like.

[287] Yeah.

[288] Are you doing the most heroic version of this possible?

[289] Right.

[290] Okay, so the two cesarians, any other surgeries I need to be aware of, like if we travel together, are you as shit going to go off in the alarm?

[291] Did you fill in our paperwork where we asked Yeah, medical history.

[292] Because we're going to give you a massage midway through.

[293] Perfect.

[294] I got my tonsils out.

[295] And cesareans.

[296] I had a knee surgery.

[297] I broke my knee when I was doing Iron Man. You did.

[298] Yeah.

[299] Like a torn meniscus or something?

[300] No, I broke what's called the tibial plateau.

[301] Okay.

[302] Yeah.

[303] That's great.

[304] It would hurt a lot.

[305] The tibial plateau.

[306] I've gotten banged up here and there, but luckily nothing too too gnarly.

[307] And how tall are you?

[308] I used to be 5 '10, and now I'm like 5, 9, and almost 5 .10, but I'm definitely drinking.

[309] But in those shoes today, pushing 6 foot?

[310] I hope so.

[311] My daughter's taller than me, though.

[312] She is?

[313] She's like 511.

[314] Oh, my goodness.

[315] Isn't that crazy?

[316] Good for her.

[317] Now, that's an awesome thing as an adult, perhaps, but in high school, I remember when gals were that tall in high school, and it was rough for them.

[318] Yeah.

[319] I think she sort of has a love.

[320] hate relationship with it.

[321] But I said to her, don't worry, you know, when you're all grown up, you're going to like being tall.

[322] Yeah.

[323] You're going to laugh last.

[324] You in high school fine?

[325] I grew an inch when I was like 19, which was pretty weird.

[326] So I got to 510 when I was like 19, but I was still tall in high school.

[327] I was like 5 .9 all the way through.

[328] Well, not all the way through.

[329] Like, I don't know, 10th, 11th grade.

[330] And most of the boys are about 5 .9 at that point.

[331] That was always an issue at prom.

[332] Like, if you had a shorter.

[333] boyfriend, like he had to wear smaller shoes.

[334] It was a whole thing.

[335] Oh, that's like going to prom with Robert Downey Jr. There you go.

[336] See?

[337] He makes me wear flat shoes.

[338] He does.

[339] I have to get on my knees and photos with him.

[340] I'm kidding, Robert.

[341] I love you.

[342] Robert, we love you so much.

[343] Now, when you endeavored into Goop, what was the global vision at that moment?

[344] I have to imagine it's like evolved in so many ways that were kind of unforeseen.

[345] Like, what did you think it was originally going to be?

[346] It's almost like I was holding two totally different ideas at the same time because on one level I was like, wow, it would be so cool to like have in business and do something in a lifestyle space and make product and like what could this be.

[347] And I was sort of holding this big amorphous vision.

[348] Like it wasn't well defined, but I had this sort of ambition behind it.

[349] But then at the same time, I felt very almost like caught in my fear and anxiety around trying to do something in a different space.

[350] And I had no idea what I was doing.

[351] But I just had this passion.

[352] So it was like, on the one hand, I had this ambition.

[353] And then on the other side, I had this fear.

[354] Yeah, it seems insurmountable, even the word business.

[355] Like, there's accountants.

[356] There's someone's got to file these taxes.

[357] You got, like, it just seems like, well, that's not what I do.

[358] And I had always been really interested in business.

[359] Yeah.

[360] I find this is rare.

[361] So when you would get a contract, you would be negotiating in contract, to act in something.

[362] Were you the type of person that loved talking to your lawyer about, okay, me too.

[363] I need to know everything.

[364] What's their scheme?

[365] How are they making money?

[366] What does that really mean?

[367] What's the 20 % off for?

[368] That's you, too.

[369] Exactly.

[370] So I love to know all the inner workings of that stuff.

[371] And then I also, I grew up in New York City and so I didn't go to school with a bunch of actors, kids or whatever like you do out here maybe, right?

[372] Although I was here when I was little, little.

[373] But when I was, like, reading the newspaper age, all the girls' dads were like...

[374] Finance people and stuff, yeah.

[375] And I was super interested.

[376] And I was like, wow, this is fascinating.

[377] This is like a chess game.

[378] It was like Machiavelli.

[379] And I got super interested in how it all worked.

[380] So I always had this like covert interest.

[381] Yeah.

[382] An undercover business interest.

[383] Yeah.

[384] So, but even with that ambition towards what it could be, what did you think the lane of products would even be.

[385] Like, I have to imagine now it's even expanded into realms that you didn't originally.

[386] Yeah, for sure.

[387] I didn't even know if we would ever get to make a product.

[388] Right.

[389] Yeah.

[390] And I didn't even know how to, like, I had no idea how to monetize a business.

[391] I had no idea.

[392] I was like, I guess I'll just send out a newsletter.

[393] And then I had help, like, figuring out what it would look like and that the newsletters would then be archived and people could go back.

[394] But I didn't know that you could sell ads.

[395] I didn't.

[396] didn't know that you could like do collaborations or sponsorships, let alone create a marketplace for e -commerce or make your own stuff.

[397] That just seemed like way past what I was capable of.

[398] I mean, it was a long time ago, right?

[399] Yeah, it was like 13 years ago.

[400] Yeah.

[401] It's been a while.

[402] And people weren't doing it then.

[403] I feel like now a lot of actors and actresses have other businesses and other things and tons of endorsements and now it's evolved, but I don't feel like people were doing it very much when you were.

[404] No, I definitely was among the first.

[405] Yeah.

[406] Yeah, I think I was very early in the space.

[407] You've been successful in many ways, but like I'll just say from my point of view, this thing feels suspicious.

[408] Like this podcast feels too good to be true.

[409] Like I've tried so hard at other things and they were just very middling at best.

[410] And then this thing is just like, it's so big, and I'm scared to think about why it is.

[411] And if I figure out if I know why, I'll ruin it.

[412] Like, do you have any of that stuff?

[413] Like, this thing is working out so well?

[414] Or is that something you mantra?

[415] First of all, you're so funny.

[416] The reason why this is so successful is because you guys, first of all, you have this, like, incredible chemistry together that's just natural.

[417] Like, you could never engineer this.

[418] True, true, true, true.

[419] And the quality of the conversations are so good and you're so funny.

[420] And it's just like, it's a great podcast.

[421] Despite my foot, it works.

[422] Maybe because of your foot.

[423] Yeah, if I got it fixed the whole thing.

[424] The foot, yeah.

[425] I'm not sure how the foot's going to be planned.

[426] But is any part of your brain like, this is a little suspicious that like I was acting and then I have an interest in this and then I pursue this thing.

[427] And then at least from the outside, it seems like it's an enormous business at this.

[428] How many employees do you have?

[429] 200.

[430] Oh, my God.

[431] Yeah, that's bonkers, right?

[432] That's amazing.

[433] Yeah, but I think it feels different.

[434] because it's so hard and we've had so many ups and downs and we've been through so many incarnations and like I've made so many mistakes and oh tell me a couple mistakes oh my god I mean how long is this we love mistakes for you we have at least 20 minutes left yeah so many I guess like the most overarching mistake theme that I've made is not feeling emboldened to question of other people who are experts.

[435] Right.

[436] Yeah.

[437] So like, oh, how can I say, like, this doesn't feel right when I don't know anything about X, Y, or Z. But I don't know.

[438] I think also, I think it's hard to be a woman starting a business anyway.

[439] And then it's hard when people are like, why the fuck are you starting a business?

[440] Like, you don't have any authority to do this.

[441] And, you know, so it's like you're constantly proving yourself.

[442] Right.

[443] And then it's like you do have a business.

[444] And then the press are like, why the fuck are you doing the business?

[445] So it's like constant sort of wind in your face.

[446] And I think I outsourced a lot of my authority.

[447] And that's okay if it's the right people, but you should always, always like, I think any founder or entrepreneur, like you're never going to be a domain expert in all of these areas.

[448] So instincts become really important in terms of like, even if you have an uncomfortable conversation with someone like, I want to get a second opinion on this or I want someone to check this work or audit this or that, like, do it because you learn more, they learn more.

[449] I think you can establish a really good relationship with a co -worker by having a difficult conversation.

[450] And the people who can't handle it shouldn't be.

[451] Yeah.

[452] Right.

[453] And when like when you direct stuff, there's this fear that everyone else will lose confidence in you.

[454] So it incentivizes you to not acknowledge when you don't know, right?

[455] Or like at least if you're insecure in the role, you're kind of, it's fearful to let people see that there are areas you don't know.

[456] And does that play a role at all too when you're the head of something like that?

[457] Yeah, for sure.

[458] And that's why I think you have to make a decision early on.

[459] I did to say, I don't know about this.

[460] Like I remember when I was first starting and I was really trying to catch up on kind of just like the basics of business and e -commerce specifically.

[461] And I would be in these meetings and people would be throwing out all these acronyms.

[462] And I would literally be Googling under the table.

[463] What's an A -O -V?

[464] And I kind of made a decision, like, I'm just going to ask the questions.

[465] Like, I don't know why I'm so embarrassed to ask.

[466] Yeah, that would be me. I'm like, fuck, I'm supposed to know that.

[467] Right.

[468] And so I'm like, sorry, I don't know this or what is that.

[469] And it's so funny, too, because I still do it all the time.

[470] And I, and you notice, like, other people don't know it either.

[471] And they're not asking.

[472] So when I ask, everyone's like, oh, okay.

[473] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[474] Yeah.

[475] But there's shame and not knowing something.

[476] I have it because my chip on my shoulders at everyone thinks I'm dumb.

[477] Like, that's kind of my big fear.

[478] I had a conversation somehow, Tim Ferriss, so I ended up on a phone call with him and we were having this splendid conversation.

[479] He said ROI like nine times.

[480] And I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[481] And it was about the eighth time where I was like, I had enough context clues to finally go like, oh, return on investment.

[482] But I had just been nodding along this conversation for quite a while, because if I knew what he was saying when he would say ROI.

[483] I know.

[484] And there's nothing wrong with Sing.

[485] What is that?

[486] Yeah, I'm a gearhead comedian.

[487] It's okay if I don't know what ROI is.

[488] That's right.

[489] So I have to include you in our experience watching the first season of your show.

[490] Oh, okay.

[491] Loved it.

[492] Because Monica called me in like, like, as if she had gone to the Magic Kingdom for the first time and saw all the characters.

[493] She goes, you've got to watch this episode.

[494] They show close -ups of all these vaginas.

[495] there's that much variety.

[496] I had no idea.

[497] That's why we wanted to do it.

[498] It's a vulva, by the way, Dax.

[499] A vagina's the inside.

[500] I'll give you a masterclass on the menor, the majora, the Cotoris.

[501] Let's party.

[502] Okay.

[503] Now, see that, I already got terrified.

[504] You would think I was ill -equipped.

[505] But it occurred to me, so of course I watched it.

[506] And I was like, yeah, that's vagina is like everyone is, that's why we want to see all that.

[507] Dax is like, I've seen my chair.

[508] I already knew that.

[509] I was like, I didn't.

[510] I'm never, I'm only seeing mine.

[511] Well, also, it occurred to me. I'm so stupid and locked into my perspective.

[512] I was like, oh, yeah, when you guys are naked around each other, you're not seeing each other's Volvo.

[513] You're not at all.

[514] Yeah.

[515] Because I could tell you what every dude I'm friends with their penis looks like.

[516] I've seen everyone's penis and they're all unique and I knew that.

[517] Some guys are uncircumcised.

[518] That's exciting.

[519] Sure.

[520] Yeah, for me. Yeah, penises are more displayed in general.

[521] Like, sometimes you do see it in movies.

[522] You're not going to get a close.

[523] up of the Volva.

[524] No. Unless you're watching Goop.

[525] Right.

[526] And we were like, we really, really want to do this because I think women, largely in our culture, as you said, they've seen their own unless they're lesbians.

[527] And the idea that you get is from porn or Playboy or whatever.

[528] And it's so, I think it does a big disservice to women to think, like.

[529] Like, I mean, there's so many examples of this in the culture.

[530] Like, we're supposed to look like this.

[531] We're supposed to look like that.

[532] Yeah.

[533] And that's like a super vulnerable area, obviously, to think about, like, am I normal?

[534] Am I not normal?

[535] So we just wanted to be like, you're normal.

[536] Whatever you look like, you're beautiful, you're normal.

[537] It's okay.

[538] And we were really happy that the, not the network.

[539] What do you say?

[540] The streamer, the Netflix.

[541] The Netflix.

[542] They were like to on board with it.

[543] It was awesome.

[544] I was Googling Netflix right now.

[545] I should just sell that.

[546] What the fuck is Netflix?

[547] That must be an acronym or something.

[548] Yeah, it was profound.

[549] It really was.

[550] I've never seen anything like that.

[551] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[552] We've all been there.

[553] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[554] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[555] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[556] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[557] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[558] Each terrifying true story, we'll be sure to keep you up at night.

[559] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[560] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[561] What's up, guys?

[562] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[563] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation, and I don't mean just friends.

[564] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[565] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[566] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[567] So here's my question to you guys, and I got to set it up in a little bit of a lengthy thing.

[568] One of my fascinations is when couples I've known have experienced infidelity, the pattern of questions men ask and the pattern of questions women ask.

[569] And I find it to be the most fascinating thing because pretty much without exception, everyone I know that's gone through that, the guy, and it's even in closer.

[570] I think that great movie, the Mike Nichols movie.

[571] The guy's first question is, how big was his dick?

[572] And did you come?

[573] Wow.

[574] Okay.

[575] That's like right out of the gates, like, who is he?

[576] They got to know how big his dick is, and they got to know if you came.

[577] And what that tells me is those are guys' two biggest fears.

[578] They're two biggest fears.

[579] My dick isn't big enough, and I'm not giving my partner orgasms.

[580] Right.

[581] And women generally are asking immediately, do you love her?

[582] and so I think women's fear is that they're going to be unloved right and it's all heartbreaking for both parties like all of our gender fucking silos were in suck for everyone and they're driven by each other which is ironic because no one cares about dick size more than guys so I guess I'm curious like I know as a guy that is what you are as a dude are comparing and so what comparative game do women play considering they don't even really know what each other has maybe boobs when you're younger?

[583] You're worried about who has boobs and who doesn't.

[584] That's true.

[585] I was so late with the boobs.

[586] You were so blessed.

[587] My boobs came so late.

[588] Mine came so early and I was like embarrassed by that.

[589] Like everyone's just embarrassed no matter who you are.

[590] You want to be the other person.

[591] Yeah.

[592] Standard is just to be ashamed and hate everything that's happening.

[593] It's true.

[594] I'm going to go even further and this will probably cut this out.

[595] Are you having another nicotine thing?

[596] Yeah.

[597] So these are These are nicotine toothpicks.

[598] Wow.

[599] How long have you not smoked cigarettes?

[600] 16 years last month.

[601] But you're still...

[602] Yeah, I love nicotine.

[603] And I've talked to a lot of doctors about it.

[604] There's nothing really bad about nicotine other than it raises your blood pressure a little bit, but I have low blood pressure, so that's not an issue.

[605] Okay.

[606] And it delays the onset of Parkinson's.

[607] Okay.

[608] So you might want to think about...

[609] Fuck.

[610] You want to do a collab?

[611] Is that what we do?

[612] Yes.

[613] I'll design some nicotine products for goo.

[614] Perfect.

[615] If I saw anything with...

[616] Your name on it on.

[617] You would cancel every.

[618] Do you babe?

[619] No. I did for a minute, man. It got me. It gold me. I had never been to Lake Arrowhead of you.

[620] No. It'll blow your mind.

[621] It's like teleporting to Switzerland.

[622] It's an hour away.

[623] We rented a house in quarantine up there.

[624] And I got up there, it was like mountains.

[625] And my buddy at the time, my childhood best friend was with us and he was still smoking.

[626] And it was the first time in 15 years.

[627] I was like, fuck, I want to, like, I want to smoke up here in this mountain clump.

[628] Oh, yeah.

[629] And then another friend that was there, vaped.

[630] So I was like, well, fuck, I'll take that option because I'm really, I want to smoke.

[631] And then seven months of me vaping?

[632] They couldn't.

[633] None of them can stop.

[634] Like a lot of people.

[635] But I've been off of it for three months now.

[636] So I'm done with that chapter.

[637] Okay, that's good.

[638] Did you ever party with the vapes?

[639] No, I never.

[640] You said goodbye to it and that was it.

[641] Do you know, it's like I loved the sound of the burning tobacco and the, like, and the smell.

[642] I'm not going to vape.

[643] You know what I mean?

[644] Yeah.

[645] lose all the good stuff then.

[646] If you suck hard enough that you get a little crackle, that'll remind you of the, you know, the sound of your lungs crack.

[647] Yeah.

[648] Turning into popcorn.

[649] Snapcackle pop.

[650] So how long has been since you smoked?

[651] I smoked like a pack at least a day until I was about 24.

[652] Then I stopped.

[653] So you went out for five years?

[654] Well, then, no, then I did a movie called the Royal Tannen Bombs.

[655] Oh, thank you.

[656] I just got your joke.

[657] And I...

[658] Oh, we just interviewed Luke.

[659] Oh, I love Lou.

[660] And I don't know that I knew you guys.

[661] dated.

[662] So I go, it must have been impossible not to fall in love with Quineh in that movie.

[663] And he goes, well, I did.

[664] I was like, oh, I should do a little more research.

[665] That's hilarious.

[666] Oh, my God, it was really...

[667] He is the funniest person.

[668] I honestly laughed so hard with that guy.

[669] Like, I died laughing.

[670] Same.

[671] I did a movie with him, and I still have about 20 of his catchphrases in my head that I constantly do out loud.

[672] He's so funny.

[673] So I had to smoke in that movie.

[674] Yeah.

[675] So I kind of picked it back up, but I never went back full blaze like 20 a day, but I would do maybe like one after dinner or two at a party and then I wouldn't smoke for three days and then I'd have one.

[676] So I kind of dabbled for a few years.

[677] Would you hop into 7 -Eleven, buy a pack, grab one out, throw the whole pack in the trash, teach yourself a lesson?

[678] No. Okay.

[679] No, I didn't do that.

[680] I tried.

[681] She's an addict.

[682] We're not alike.

[683] I tried to not buy a pack, but then I would sometimes.

[684] And then I got pregnant with my daughter.

[685] There you go.

[686] And then I stopped for years and years.

[687] And then I was somewhere like, someone's birthday party and I was like, oh man, that looks so good.

[688] I was like, I could just have one, right?

[689] Yeah.

[690] And it turns out I could.

[691] So I had one like once in a while.

[692] I would have one.

[693] That's the dream, by the way.

[694] If I could do that, that would be wonderful.

[695] And then a few years ago, I signed a life insurance policy.

[696] And I was like, well, am I allowed to smoke one cigarette and half of that, like one a quarter, like one every six months.

[697] One at a Christmas party?

[698] And they were like, no. You listened.

[699] You were like, sure, I'm not going to follow that.

[700] That's my follow question.

[701] I never smoked again.

[702] I hadn't actually smoked in a while when I signed it.

[703] And I was like, okay, I'm really never going to do this again.

[704] Did it cross your mind that you've now incentivized people to murder you if you have an insurance policy?

[705] Oh, true.

[706] That's why I'm not going to have one.

[707] Because I don't need my kids or my wife to have any more incentive.

[708] More ammo.

[709] Great, cool.

[710] I just made that story.

[711] You smoked on the ride here, I bet.

[712] Okay, back to, in that same me observing people with infidelity, I've noticed that people, guys that are most kind of controlling insecure are generally the dudes I know that are most insecure about their penis, most insecure whether they're making girls come.

[713] I see a huge parallel there.

[714] Interesting.

[715] Wait, between people who are insecure?

[716] about their penis.

[717] They're most threatened by their partner cheating on them.

[718] Got it.

[719] Yes.

[720] There seems to be like a pretty nice correlation in my anecdotal life experience.

[721] I think it's fascinating.

[722] Do you think the reverse is the same for women?

[723] Well, that's, I bring all this up because I'm genuinely curious.

[724] Like, I want to know, because this new season of the show is dealing a ton with sex in couples.

[725] And I guess the main question I would have, just from watching the trailer because it's not out quite yet.

[726] is I can explain the type of shame associated with men talking about sex.

[727] I think just generally speaking, men are far less shame -ridden by even talking about sex.

[728] So I first want to ask you why you think that is.

[729] Like, why is it that me and my guy friends have all seen each other's penises?

[730] I know exactly how they fuck.

[731] I know exactly.

[732] I know everything about, like, it's just fine.

[733] And I wonder why it's different.

[734] I have an opinion, but I'd way rather hear from you guys.

[735] Well, I'd be interested to know, like, what the difference is between, how old are you?

[736] 34.

[737] 34, so I'm a lot.

[738] Three years younger.

[739] Yeah, no. Don't talk of the map.

[740] I already established you at 29, so I can blow the whole thing.

[741] You have a look at your face.

[742] Oh, please.

[743] We spent so much time.

[744] Now I'm digressing again, but when you came the first time, we've since talked about it so much.

[745] But, like, I was like, oh, I'm, I'm not a person, like, that's a person.

[746] Oh, shut the fuck of.

[747] twice.

[748] She's had it twice where like the guest left and she's like, I got to really think about everything in life.

[749] Anyway, sorry, you said age.

[750] Age, yeah.

[751] No, because I was curious about Monica's if the difference in, because I'm 15 years older than you.

[752] So I wonder if my experience is the same as yours being raised and I don't know.

[753] And I hope it's very different than from my daughters, right?

[754] Who's 15 -ish years younger than you.

[755] Yeah.

[756] Yeah, this is where the rubber meets the road for you.

[757] Don't you think?

[758] Like this is really where things launch.

[759] Your sexual identity is just starting to really take form.

[760] Right.

[761] But the messaging that I got when I was my daughter's age who's 17th.

[762] This is gross.

[763] This is bad.

[764] Good girls don't do this.

[765] Good girls don't really talk about it.

[766] Don't talk about pleasure.

[767] Don't think about what you might like or what's right for you or like let alone like what are your kinks or yeah yeah it was all just like be good be nice like be in a monogamous relationship and can I add one thing yeah because we're roughly the same age which is like you better make sure the guy you lose your virginity loves you as if a human can tell if someone truly like what a fucking burden to put on a 15 year old kid like my dad said don't knock anyone up.

[768] Right.

[769] Like, those are marching orders one can follow.

[770] Yes.

[771] Make sure this woman loves you with her whole heart.

[772] I mean, that is in, yeah, that's a lot of pressure.

[773] And then when it turns out, maybe the person didn't love you for the rest of your, now you've failed at that thing.

[774] That's the part I really kind of hate is just like the weight of that command.

[775] Yeah.

[776] And why is it the girl's responsibility to carry the whole moral context for the whole thing?

[777] Right.

[778] We're the ones who are then shamed or were the ones that are then judged, At least in my generation, that was kind of the...

[779] Yeah, if you like sex, you were a slot, plain and simple.

[780] Only sluts like sex.

[781] Right.

[782] Yeah.

[783] Yeah, the emphasis is so much more on building a relationship, not pleasure from sex.

[784] It's like, yeah, you better, like, have a boyfriend and have them for a while.

[785] And how long have you guys been together before you ever had sex?

[786] Like, those are the conversations, as opposed to just, like, I enjoy it and I want to do it.

[787] I have an unpopular opinion with my daughters, which is, of course, the most generic, thing every guy says to me is like, oh, you better have a gun.

[788] There's going to be guys coming around or whatever.

[789] You know, this notion that I've got to protect my children's virgin, my daughter's virginity with great prejudice, if necessary.

[790] My response is I do not want my daughters to have sex so that they can get approval from somebody.

[791] Yeah.

[792] But if my daughters are horny and want to have sex, that was my favorite activity.

[793] It remains my favorite activity.

[794] I'd be lying if I said I was in any way anti that activity.

[795] I'm anti getting esteemed from that activity, but that's it for me. Right.

[796] I hope that the conversation is starting to change around women's sexuality and their pleasure and the right for a woman to say, like, hey, let me think about this.

[797] Yeah.

[798] Like how many of us have actually sat down and been like, let me sort of chart out what my sexuality is.

[799] Like, what do I like?

[800] What do I not like?

[801] Could I say that to someone in the moment?

[802] It's like, we're not taught that that's okay.

[803] Yeah, I think the conventional old wisdom is like if the guy feels good at the end or if the guy comes, like you did a good job.

[804] Success.

[805] By the way, every guy's going to come.

[806] It doesn't take a whole lot of effort, especially in your teens.

[807] Yeah, but like that's you doing a good job if he is happy.

[808] Right.

[809] Let me back up.

[810] I want to know, because sex, I don't know what the anxiety is.

[811] I know when I was growing up, girls had great anxiety about whether they could give a blowjob correctly.

[812] Like, that seemed to be a performance anxiety.

[813] Because I know every boy has this incredible anxiety about, like, am I going to come too fast?

[814] Am I going to get hard?

[815] What's going, like, I know what, I know the actual anxiety men are wrestling with for sex.

[816] And I've definitely heard women lament about their fear of not knowing how to give a blowjob.

[817] But was there, is there any fear about sex in general that you would be bad at it?

[818] I think so.

[819] I mean, I think it's if the guy is not, like, definitely what a girl's not saying is, oh, it's not going.

[820] well because I don't feel pleasure, which that is what they should be saying.

[821] But I think there's so much emphasis on the guy.

[822] And really, like, I think if the girl is having, if she's really in her body and having a lot of pleasure, like, that's great sex.

[823] The guy is then having great sex.

[824] Especially if you're an approval jungle like me. Like, all I want is for you to walk away going, like, that guy did a good job.

[825] You hope.

[826] Is it progressing?

[827] you would know you have the ear of that generation of young people without saying it's like what you're we're not saying your daughter said to this but you must have some sense of like like i'll tell you one thing that my wife does which i think is ingenious she didn't make it up she learned it from somebody is when she describes sex to our children she says and then the woman takes the man's penis and puts it in her vagina so right away it's like you're in charge of this right you will decide to put this in your vagina not the man puts his penis in your vagina oh that's a good distinction.

[828] And I was like a little subtle thing like that is like, yeah, you're in the driver's seat.

[829] He's got this ridiculous protrusion.

[830] So it would seem he's in the driver's seat.

[831] But you're going to take that and put that, you know.

[832] And I was like, oh, that's a nice little adjustment we're going to make.

[833] That's good.

[834] I like that.

[835] Yeah.

[836] Okay.

[837] So in this season, though, based I guess on the popularity of the vagina episode, and it wasn't a vehement of a vagina episode.

[838] It was an episode about female pleasure.

[839] Female pleasure.

[840] Yeah.

[841] So I have to imagine that was like probably the one that people.

[842] People watched the most.

[843] Yeah, it was.

[844] I watched the drug one, of course, because I'm an addict.

[845] That was a good one.

[846] That was a great one.

[847] And then I was like, well, let's get over to this Volvo conversation.

[848] So was that kind of like maybe a guiding, like, oh, wow, this is really under explored, clearly.

[849] There was a lot of great conversation that happened around that episode, and I think we just felt like, this is a topic that people are still uncomfortable with, the idea of female pleasure.

[850] and then we extrapolated it out a little bit because the show follows these incredibly brave couples who are coming forward because there's something that's really blocking them in their sex lives, right?

[851] So this is a particular thing because we're just looking at these couples who are in committed monogamous relationships and there's all other kinds and all other permutations.

[852] But I found it so fascinating that in your intimate sex life, like, that's where unresolved stuff from your life is going to come up and out.

[853] Right.

[854] So whatever your insecurities are, whatever bracing you do, whatever unresolved trauma you have, like, it's going to come out there.

[855] Yeah, you're your most vulnerable state physically you can be in.

[856] Right.

[857] And so I thought, if we are able to explore how you can unlock yourself from those paradigms that you grew up with or those patterns or the trauma?

[858] Like if you, like, what would be possible?

[859] Like, in a sexual context, if you could be super honest with yourself and really listen to yourself and really be vulnerable, like what could be possible?

[860] What could you heal?

[861] And it's very cool.

[862] Like, there are some of these couples go so, just they're so abjectly brave and they're just trying stuff to get as close to the person that they love as possible.

[863] And one couple had almost separated and they had completely lost their attraction to each other.

[864] There was one couple where they were completely sexually mismatched and the woman just felt like she was broken and could not have an orgasm.

[865] And the guy was like, well, it worked with everyone else.

[866] Like, you know, and just really you see how communication and insecurity, ego, vulnerability, like you see how all this stuff plays in and how people were really.

[867] able to start to dismantle some of this stuff that kept them apart.

[868] Wow.

[869] That's cool.

[870] Well, I do think that I've said this a bunch of times that like, and I've been in three different really long -term relationships.

[871] And I think the very hardest element of a relationship to keep on track is the sex life because it requires so much vulnerability in the area that I think we're all the most insecure.

[872] Like the notion that we wouldn't be enough for our partner in that way, you kind of tell yourself the story is like well I can't fix that like maybe you want me to wash dishes more I can handle that you want me to pick up the kids more often that's tackable I don't know how to please you like I just think it like gets to the very deepest primitive fear we have that we wouldn't be enough for somebody yeah but there's like a mind reading piece of that that we all do that undermines us so much right it's like you just said I worry that I'm not pleasing you But what if it was your partner's responsibility to say, hey, like, I would love it if you tried this.

[873] Yeah.

[874] And to kind of undo that burden that, like, you're supposed to read my mind and I'm supposed to read your mind.

[875] And this is supposed to be perfect.

[876] And if we're not having perfect sex, then it means we're not meant to be together.

[877] But I do think what stands in the way of that, the roadblock for that is we're all a little codependent in relationships.

[878] So I am nervous that if I tell you my needs or my desires that you will interpret it as, you're failing.

[879] I think that's what really stands in the way quite often with people being honest about what they want because they don't want to hurt their partner's feelings.

[880] They don't want to imply their partner should have known this intuitively.

[881] But I think a lot of us get defensive quite quickly when the stakes are that high.

[882] But I think it's how you frame it, right?

[883] Like if you are able to say to your partner, hey, like, is there any way we could have a conversation that I feel embarrassed to have, like, I want to talk about something that's really hard for me to talk about, like, is that okay?

[884] Yeah.

[885] And you set it up, like, you're my friend in this.

[886] Like, I'm not attacking you.

[887] Also, you have to pick the right moment, right?

[888] So it can't be like...

[889] Maybe not right after...

[890] Right, like...

[891] An ideal time is, like, if he's just lost a basketball game, or he just got fired.

[892] Yeah, right then.

[893] That's when you hit him.

[894] Because, you know, he's maybe he's open to direction at that moment.

[895] He was questioning a lot of things.

[896] But giant.

[897] There's a woman named Jaya on the show.

[898] She's this amazing sex therapist.

[899] Real quick.

[900] That's very convenient.

[901] That her name's...

[902] Suspicious.

[903] Why?

[904] Simulation.

[905] Well, Jaya, vagina.

[906] It seems a little convenient.

[907] Like a weathercaster that's named like Dallas Rains.

[908] I don't know, man. You went into meteorology?

[909] Check her the egg.

[910] Anyways, I just wanted to flag that.

[911] Okay.

[912] Thank you.

[913] This re contextualizes everything.

[914] But she said, like, have the conversation.

[915] conversation like that when you're both resourced, right?

[916] Meaning you're not in a fight about something else.

[917] You're not exhausted.

[918] You didn't have one kid with a fever all night.

[919] Like wait until everyone's cup's full.

[920] Your cup is full and come to the conversation with accountability and vulnerability.

[921] And I think that if couples are willing to do that, hey, I'm going to put down my reactivity and just hear you.

[922] Like really interesting things can come out.

[923] that.

[924] Yeah, it's almost like if you can trick yourself, like people have mental tricks.

[925] I have mental tricks.

[926] When I used to audition a lot, it's like on the whole way there, I convince myself, I don't even want to be in this movie.

[927] Second, I really believe that, then I can just be carefree and do whatever I intended to do.

[928] And similarly, it's like, if you can almost trick yourself and, like, your partner is your friend who's telling you, like, what they like.

[929] It's that simple.

[930] Like, you're just hearing what your friend with it.

[931] It's not a trick.

[932] It's real.

[933] That's real.

[934] Yes, but I'm saying to remove yourself from the, like, oh, fuck.

[935] I mean, I haven't been doing it right.

[936] She's telling me now we've been married for 14 years.

[937] I've been doing for, like, you know, you can go off to the races really quick.

[938] Right.

[939] I'm trying to be realistic about what people probably feel like when this comes up.

[940] It's just interesting to ask yourself, like, why is this so hard to have?

[941] Is there a way that we could have a conversation where we could address the elephant in the room, which is this is a really hard conversation to have?

[942] Yeah.

[943] Well, let's start with the very, like the way sexuality, often begins is I just told the story recently.

[944] I moved to a different school in junior high in sixth grade.

[945] And then this gal that was an eighth grader asked me to go to the movies with her.

[946] And we started kind of like, I guess we're going together, blah, blah, blah.

[947] Then we're behind the shed at Deanna's house because you would go to the movies.

[948] But really, you'd just leave immediately and you would go to Deanna's house.

[949] And then we're behind the shed.

[950] We were making out and everything.

[951] And I had gone up a shirt before, so I was fine with that.

[952] And then she said, I like getting fingered.

[953] And in my mind, I'm like, great.

[954] Like, sure.

[955] Good for her, by the way.

[956] I know.

[957] How old was she?

[958] She was in eighth grade, so she's like 14.

[959] What an amazing girl.

[960] But here's me. Okay, so I'm 12.

[961] And so I'm going down her pants, and I know where my penis is.

[962] It's right out in front of my mom's pubis, right?

[963] It's there.

[964] It's up high.

[965] I'm assuming that's where the vagina's at.

[966] And I'm going down and down, and now I start really panicking.

[967] Like, oh, if I go much lower, I'm going to be at her butt.

[968] That's what's got to be next because that's where mine's at.

[969] And I'm like, I'm pausing for long enough that she says, oh, have you not done this before?

[970] And I was like, no, I've done it.

[971] And then I just commit like, oh, fuck, I'm probably going to touch her butt, but I got, like, so for me, it's literally started with, have you not done this before?

[972] Yes, I have.

[973] And then panicked and then acting like I've done it before.

[974] And then fingered her butt.

[975] No, I didn't finger her butt.

[976] No, I didn't finger her butt.

[977] That didn't happen, but I was so...

[978] She probably liked that, too, maybe.

[979] Fuck it, yeah.

[980] I'm sure everything was on the same.

[981] She sounds like if you had said, no, I haven't.

[982] She would have been great.

[983] She probably would have liked it.

[984] And that's the thing I kind of want to say is, like, people find that so endearing and lovely, and to be a part of, like, walking someone through that.

[985] It's actually amazing.

[986] Yeah.

[987] I'll be really vulnerable then.

[988] I had sex very late for the first time.

[989] Last night.

[990] Not last night, but not that long ago.

[991] Like in your 30s?

[992] I was about to turn 30, I think.

[993] Wow.

[994] And what made you wait so long?

[995] It wasn't a choice.

[996] It wasn't like I was like, I'm waiting until marriage or something like that.

[997] But I have a lot of like blocks about being liked and relationships and I didn't have one like growing up ever and no one who I liked liked me. A lot of things piled up into me. having like a lot of...

[998] And I'll add a story that people don't like her and literally is blind to it.

[999] I've been in front of her while a guy is hitting on her and we walk away and then we fight for 25 minutes about whether he just hit on her.

[1000] And you know that he did and you can't see it.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] So where does that story come from?

[1003] Well, I was an Indian girl in Georgia and I felt really other.

[1004] And I also was really other.

[1005] I've been around her screaming I mean, this dude's in love with you.

[1006] No, he likes the show.

[1007] Yeah, he likes the show in which you are yourself on the show.

[1008] And it's not like you're a character on fucking TV that he's in love with.

[1009] You are Monica.

[1010] Right, this is a good point.

[1011] Oh, it drives me crazy, Gwyneth.

[1012] Anyway.

[1013] You and I should go out for coffee and talk about it.

[1014] We're going to.

[1015] Spend all your time talking about this.

[1016] But yeah, anyway, so there was a lot going on.

[1017] Yes, and I would always then pick people who I couldn't have to kind of confirm the thing.

[1018] You know, it's the whole thing.

[1019] But I had sex very late.

[1020] Was it a boyfriend by the time?

[1021] Are you just sort of like?

[1022] No, we were, we did like, it was like our third date.

[1023] And I was like.

[1024] It's time to.

[1025] It's time.

[1026] Yes.

[1027] I wanted to and I was like, this is.

[1028] Did he know?

[1029] So that was a whole thing.

[1030] I was like, I have to tell him.

[1031] But I didn't also want to tell him like on the first day.

[1032] You know, I was like, how do we do this?

[1033] How do I navigate this?

[1034] Because at that point you're kind of a little insecure about it.

[1035] Oh, very.

[1036] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1037] I also, this person who's incredible.

[1038] incredible, very, very special person.

[1039] Are you still with him?

[1040] No. Oh.

[1041] But he has had many sexual partners.

[1042] This I know, which is fine.

[1043] And I knew that.

[1044] So that also added a little bit to the insecurity because I'm like, oh, my God, this person has had so many partners and I've never had sex and I have to tell him.

[1045] So we're like fooling around and it is about to happen and I have to say, hey, I have to tell you something.

[1046] And he was like, okay.

[1047] Don't worry.

[1048] I already have it.

[1049] Honestly.

[1050] I mean, obviously that's...

[1051] I think which one are you telling you?

[1052] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I already have those ones, yeah.

[1053] But that's obviously what I would think or what he must have been thinking.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] But so because he was not expecting what I told him.

[1056] I'm just like, I haven't had sex before.

[1057] And he was like, oh, do you want to?

[1058] And I was like, yeah.

[1059] And so we did.

[1060] And he was lovely.

[1061] And he was so like, it was, it was really sweet.

[1062] And then he, like, sent me this nice text and I'd say, like, I hope that was good.

[1063] I want, let's do it again.

[1064] Very good person and experience.

[1065] A nice text.

[1066] I thought you were going to say sent me these nice flowers.

[1067] Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He posted on Twitter, like, great night last night.

[1068] I mean, he didn't tag me, but I mean, clear what.

[1069] But I knew it was about me. no he was perfect but that feeling of like oh my god I have to tell oh I can't I'm impressed you did because I know what it was for you I do but I felt like that would be so unfair to him if I didn't P .S you just took my virginity couldn't do it to him fuck him that's like for I feel like for you no it's for you to say like this is yeah I think that's really self -honoring to be like this is what's happening Yeah.

[1070] I admire it.

[1071] I do, too.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] I would have chicken.

[1074] Well, I did chicken out.

[1075] I just went, fuck it, I'll hit her butt.

[1076] You were 12.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] I'm maybe 11, yeah.

[1079] Oh, did her butt.

[1080] Anyway, all to say, I only say that because I don't know everyone's different experiences.

[1081] And of course, I think I'm the only person on Earth ever who's that age, who has to have that conversation.

[1082] But I'm probably not.

[1083] I'm sure there are other people.

[1084] I'm really impressed you just told that whole story, by the way.

[1085] Yeah, you're a gangster.

[1086] And you're getting more and more gangstery by the day.

[1087] Thanks.

[1088] But yeah, it's a tricky topic.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1091] When you do a show like this and you've got to go out and promote it, I would imagine, like, do you feel an obligation?

[1092] Like, these people who are kind enough to participate in this thing, they're being so open.

[1093] And now I pretty much have to walk that path to you.

[1094] Do you feel that pressure at all?

[1095] It's so interesting.

[1096] that because I think people expect me to do that.

[1097] And my point is, it's still a really private thing.

[1098] Or for me, it feels really private, right?

[1099] It's like, I've had my own long journey with my sexuality, and it's constantly evolving through all the chapters of my life and through being a kid and trying to understand it and all the many phases of being objectified.

[1100] and putting yourself in a bad situation and then getting married and divorced and then remarried and it's been a really interesting journey and I think actually there have been times where I've been close to myself and my sexuality and there have been times where I've gone way far away from it but it's really personal and I think the reason why I wanted to do the show was not to sort of talk about my own stuff although like in a situation like this with you guys is like it feels not, like, horrible to talk about, you know?

[1101] But I think that the impetus behind the whole thing is, like, to the degree to which you're comfortable, like, you are allowed to talk about this stuff in your own life.

[1102] You're allowed to think about it.

[1103] You're allowed to explore it.

[1104] You're allowed to talk about it.

[1105] Ask questions about it.

[1106] You know, like we were saying earlier, like, let your mind go wild and think about, like, would I like this or not?

[1107] It doesn't mean you have to tell everybody.

[1108] But I think it's really important that we give ourselves a permission to have that kind of curiosity and agency.

[1109] I don't know.

[1110] And I really do think that I keep saying it because it's the only way I can really say what I mean.

[1111] But if you're close to yourself in that way and you're really integrated in that way, I feel like life really opens up.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] When we interviewed Natalie Portman, we were kind of talking about this diametrically opposed trajectory.

[1114] of actors whose sexuality was restricted.

[1115] So that would be like everyone that was on Disney.

[1116] Like they really restrict your sexuality.

[1117] Right.

[1118] And then like Natalie, who was sexualized at 13.

[1119] Yeah.

[1120] And how it just has this predictable outcome, right?

[1121] Where it's like she then closed it down.

[1122] And these people exploded.

[1123] Right.

[1124] Yeah.

[1125] That's actually fascinating.

[1126] It is.

[1127] And we think of ourselves as having this like, an innate path we're on but that is so not true it's like if i were a disney kid i would have done this and if i were sexualized i probably would have done that like it's you are really susceptible to these outside forces so i think and you're kind of in that natalie category i would imagine where it's just like i've got to reclaim this for me and everyone butt out for a second and then maybe getting older and going like okay and then also i do want to be out where you know like i could imagine that being the that's such an interesting point i never would have thought it like that.

[1128] But yeah, I think the first movie that I ever was in they had me take my shirt off.

[1129] At what age?

[1130] 19.

[1131] Okay, yeah.

[1132] As young.

[1133] And I was thinking, why do I have to take my shirt?

[1134] Like, what is this?

[1135] Why?

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] Oh, it's so important for the character, you know.

[1138] This character actually does take her shirt off sometimes.

[1139] This is one of those moments where her shirt would be off.

[1140] By the way, this is the lesson you talked about starting the business, which is like you didn't feel empowered to ask the question, or perhaps you felt like you would have been exposing how green and novice you were.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] And I just was like, why?

[1143] I remember thinking, why do I have to take my shirt off?

[1144] And then it was just like, there was a period of time it was like, if you're a serious actress, you know, you take your shirt off to show that you can really commit.

[1145] You're an artist.

[1146] Yeah, you can really commit.

[1147] And with all that said, though, do you have the thing Kristen has where she's like, now she's showing her boobs anytime she can't.

[1148] Like anything they ask her, she's like, Yeah, absolutely.

[1149] And she's like, fuck, I wish I would have shown this shit off.

[1150] I was younger and I didn't want anyone to see it.

[1151] Now you let you hire her for a fucking Hardee's commercial and that shirt's coming off.

[1152] No, but Kristen is more of a, she's not a Disney kid, but of that because she's the cute girl and the sweet girl.

[1153] Yeah, girl next door.

[1154] Exactly.

[1155] And she's like, bitch, I like the fuck.

[1156] Let me show you these titties in this Taco Bo commercial.

[1157] but yeah you would have been more in the other camp we have to let you go but i do want to ask one question as happens with you i'll hear about something this is the topic of our first interview which we're not going to rehash but i feel like i've been someone who's always come to your defense and thought you know what this is someone else's issue but things percolate to me even though i don't really follow things so one thing i read or heard is that you do you guys have two houses no is that real no that's not this one piqued my interest just on a person And a lot of things like, should I find that house next story.

[1158] Yeah, and again, like whatever, courses for courses, as I say in England, like, whatever works.

[1159] But what happened was when Brad and I got married, we thought it still felt soon to kind of integrate the kids under one roof.

[1160] So we had a different situation.

[1161] Yeah.

[1162] We had been dating for a while, and he had a house close.

[1163] And so we sort of thought, well, maybe we'll just be married for a year.

[1164] and let them experience that before we kind of all go over.

[1165] I love that as someone who got slammed into other families a bunch as a kid.

[1166] I can't stand it.

[1167] I don't know.

[1168] You know, sometimes we think like maybe we were too careful about it.

[1169] But, you know, I think we really tried to be as mindful in our divorces and our marriage together as possible.

[1170] And we love our kids so much.

[1171] And between the two of us, we have these four great kids.

[1172] and it's really hard and there's no book.

[1173] Like nobody tells you how to step -parent or how to do it and it's tough.

[1174] And you go through really like things you just could not have imagined going through.

[1175] And it's been such a totally fascinating and humbling thing, being a step -parent and trying to figure it out.

[1176] I have said this before, but I have three step -dads and I just hated two of them.

[1177] And thank God the last one didn't try to parent me. And I loved him.

[1178] I then was dating someone with a kid, and then I kind of fell in love with the kid.

[1179] Right.

[1180] And then in falling love with the kid, I want the kid to turn out right.

[1181] It was irresistible for me to not try to help that.

[1182] And then just that's not a role the kid wanted me to have, understandably.

[1183] And I, for the first time, I was like, I still hate those first two motherfuckers, but I have so much compassion for what they were dealing with, especially two boys, me and my brother.

[1184] Right, right.

[1185] Like, oh, my God, is it a hard thing to navigate?

[1186] I mean, it is really challenging.

[1187] I wish somebody, I think probably no one's written the book because everyone has fucked it up.

[1188] Yes, yes.

[1189] You know, there's no way to win in it.

[1190] Well, my stepdad could have.

[1191] He literally showed up and he was like, yeah, man, you're your own guy.

[1192] I'm in engineering and shit, if you ever want to talk about that.

[1193] And I adored him.

[1194] You were older, too, which is a little helpful.

[1195] I don't know, man, that was a rough age for me. Like, I was 15.

[1196] Had I not liked him?

[1197] I would have fought him.

[1198] Like, I was at the age where I was, like, dying to lock horns with somebody.

[1199] And he just never took that challenge on.

[1200] And he, and I just loved them.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] I think that's the thing, right?

[1203] It's like understanding that you are not the parent.

[1204] You don't have jurisdiction.

[1205] Mm -hmm.

[1206] But you love them.

[1207] But you love them.

[1208] You have to, it's hard.

[1209] Right, because you want them to turn out?

[1210] Right.

[1211] And with your own kids, you have.

[1212] all this latitude and you can make mistakes and not with you know with a step kid it's totally different but i've loved it.

[1213] Even with their kids who I'm so so so close to have been around since they were babies like I have that I'm like I can't say the thing that I really want to say but I want to say it because I love that person and I need that person to be okay it is so complicated but then it's also like well that's for example your idea of what's okay right So it's like, what is projection?

[1214] What is 100 %?

[1215] Well, I was going to say it's ironically a weird lesson to learn for your own children, which is they're their own fucking people.

[1216] Get out of the way, which is almost impossible to do.

[1217] Yeah.

[1218] But it's like if you could learn it in the stepchild, you could almost apply it to your child.

[1219] And I think it was Banksy that artists who said, I saw this quote that said something like parents now will do absolutely anything for their children except let them be who they actually are.

[1220] Yeah, yeah.

[1221] And it really stayed with me because I thought, God, we have all these ideas about how to parent and what they're supposed to do and be and say and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1222] And it's like, can we be brave enough to just let them emerge as who they are without trust?

[1223] Yeah, without all of this, like, how does this reflect back on me?

[1224] It's like, no, no, no. Like, don't be such a selfish narcissist.

[1225] It's like, they came through you, but they're not of you, like Rumi said.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] Yeah, and I mean, I have a really good memory, and I don't know if it's uniquely good, but I can go back to nine and listening to an adult talk to me and I'm like, you don't get it.

[1228] You're not going to win this.

[1229] Like, you're going to say what you're going to say.

[1230] And then guess what?

[1231] I'm going to be me when I walk away from you.

[1232] Right.

[1233] I have that conviction.

[1234] And I don't know why I would pretend my daughters are going to be any different.

[1235] Like, I can fight them along the way or I can try my best to be there when they fuck up and go like, oh, I fucked up the same way, you know.

[1236] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1237] And bringing that kind of understanding and, like, camaraderie to parenting is kind of interesting.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] And it works the other way around with your parents.

[1240] They're not you either.

[1241] Like, don't put you.

[1242] They're never going to listen to a word you say.

[1243] Exactly.

[1244] Yeah.

[1245] No one's going to listen to anyone, just except that.

[1246] That's true.

[1247] Well, from your shoes to your slacks, to your great program, which is called Goop.

[1248] No, it's not.

[1249] It's called sex, love, and goop.

[1250] Sex, love, and goop.

[1251] It's interesting.

[1252] It's confusing.

[1253] We had to really mull it over between the two of us.

[1254] It is a season two, but it is not a season two.

[1255] It's its own show.

[1256] It's its own show.

[1257] It's another incarnation of some of goop content.

[1258] I mean, it's all like the same.

[1259] I think what drives us at the company is being sort of bold around asking these questions, right?

[1260] Like, how do we optimize ourselves?

[1261] and what are the channels through which we can do that.

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] So it's kind of all the same sentiment, but they're very different shows.

[1264] Right.

[1265] Okay.

[1266] Sex, love, and Goop on Netflix.

[1267] Do you want to wear cute clothes?

[1268] You should go to Goop and check out.

[1269] Monica looks fantastic.

[1270] Yeah, I'm wearing a G -label sweatshirt.

[1271] When you look at the pictures, the $30 jumpsuit I'm wearing is from Goop.

[1272] Don't want to tell you anything different.

[1273] If it's not available, that'll be a false advertisement claim.

[1274] So please litigate.

[1275] Gwyneth, such a pleasure.

[1276] Thanks for coming here again.

[1277] I hope there's a round three.

[1278] All right.

[1279] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Badman.

[1280] I'm enjoying a cheese from your fridge.

[1281] Yep.

[1282] That is five years old.

[1283] Almost as old as Delta.

[1284] And it's really good.

[1285] You can taste the five years.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] The experience.

[1288] Mm -hmm.

[1289] To me, it's always an interest.

[1290] business endeavor when you're in the business of aging, because what's implicit in that is a ton of storage.

[1291] If you get into the five -year -old cheese game, you know, you're going to be storing a lot of cheese for five years.

[1292] That's true.

[1293] And every day, presumably, you're putting some in that will start the process.

[1294] So you're getting into the storage business when you're doing these age things, the scotch, the wine.

[1295] Because storage comes with some built -in costs.

[1296] Storage costs.

[1297] Storage costs.

[1298] You know, I think Matt, our friend Matt, he's obsessed with building houses out of storage containers.

[1299] I used to be.

[1300] You did?

[1301] I did, yeah.

[1302] I've never heard of it, but he's always sending pictures of that.

[1303] Yeah, you can weld them together.

[1304] Yeah.

[1305] They're neat.

[1306] But they're...

[1307] They're limited.

[1308] Yeah.

[1309] But yeah, I had a fantasy of getting like a chunk of property out somewhere, let's say by glamorous or something, building some weird storage.

[1310] Because the containers themselves, you can sometimes get for free or they, you can sometimes get for free, or a few hundred dollars and they're indestructible yeah this is an interesting personality thing right like some people are very attracted to that like how do i build a 3 ,000 square foot house for a hundred dollars yeah i don't have that right i do i know yeah and increasingly so we have to be honest because that's what we do here we don't have any facts for gwenith because we recorded with her yesterday.

[1311] This is rare.

[1312] Mm -hmm.

[1313] Recorded with her yesterday.

[1314] This is a quick tourney.

[1315] She got fast past to Monday.

[1316] She did.

[1317] Because of that, I don't have the episode yet, so I don't have the facts yet, but that's okay.

[1318] I don't even think that's what we would have talked about anyways.

[1319] I think that the headlines won't be in the facts.

[1320] They won't be, but it's important.

[1321] The headlines are what happened when you walked in.

[1322] Oh, yeah.

[1323] Look, if there's a lesson to be taken, it's, don't try to be cool, right?

[1324] Because the first time we had Gwynnathon, I was like, should I wear something from Goop?

[1325] Maybe I should.

[1326] So she knows I like it, but no, that's not cool.

[1327] I shouldn't do it.

[1328] I had a lot of thought that went in and I was like, no, I'm just going to be like normal.

[1329] And it sucked.

[1330] I should have.

[1331] Also, who endeavors into creating products wouldn't be delighted to see someone's owning it and enjoying it.

[1332] Exactly.

[1333] But I was more insecure.

[1334] And I wanted to impress her, and I felt like that was the way to impress her, which was very stupid.

[1335] But this time, I was like, fuck that.

[1336] I'm wearing a G -label sweatshirt that I love that's pretty new.

[1337] It's so cute.

[1338] And I wore it, and she was so delighted immediately.

[1339] I was delighted because I was like, oh, she knows what she's making.

[1340] Because you could, you know, you could create some story in your head that she doesn't know what the fuck's going on a goop.

[1341] And she shows up and promotes this and now.

[1342] No, she knew.

[1343] Boom.

[1344] The second she saw you.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] And she liked it.

[1347] Mm -hmm.

[1348] And I liked it.

[1349] And then, of course, the headline for me after that would be, I then hugged her upon greeting her.

[1350] And she said, that was an incredible hug.

[1351] You are a very good hugger.

[1352] Thank you.

[1353] You are.

[1354] It's a real skill.

[1355] I have had a few people in life who are incredible huggers.

[1356] You, my friend Matt, from home.

[1357] Mm -hmm.

[1358] Incredible hugger.

[1359] Kristen is a really, really, really good hugger, too.

[1360] Me and her.

[1361] I would love to feel her hug at your size.

[1362] That's what I was going to say.

[1363] For me, she's, like, struggling to put her arms around a barn door.

[1364] Right.

[1365] You know, mind you, great hugger.

[1366] I love hugging her.

[1367] Of course.

[1368] But I do wonder what it's like when she can be more in the role that I'm normally in as a huger, which is I can fold my entire body around your body when I hug you.

[1369] Yeah.

[1370] No, she, it's a very specific huger.

[1371] between her and I because we're the same.

[1372] She's an inch taller.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] So it's very much the same level.

[1375] Yeah, you can like fully embrace in a way that's lovely.

[1376] Do you ever feel like your juggies create too much space between you guys?

[1377] I've never felt that.

[1378] Okay.

[1379] No, no. I mean, they're smashed up against her for sure.

[1380] You guys are really flattening each other's boobs out when you embrace.

[1381] Oh, yeah.

[1382] Yeah, spilling.

[1383] Wow.

[1384] There's lots of spillage.

[1385] Yeah.

[1386] We should have Wobby Wob, take a photo of that.

[1387] We can see you getting a lot of likes.

[1388] Okay.

[1389] Another great photo would be wabiwob in the middle of that hug.

[1390] It would disturb the whole thing.

[1391] The whole thing is...

[1392] For you guys.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] Yeah, but for wabi wab, it would probably be nice.

[1395] You might like it, yeah.

[1396] I'm going to make a really dangerous argument because it's kind of...

[1397] In truth, it's a little counterproductive to a movement that I very much believe in.

[1398] But you are unaware of the...

[1399] movie Soul Man until about five days ago.

[1400] Mm -hmm.

[1401] And so Soul Man was a Thomas E. Howell film in 1986.

[1402] Yes.

[1403] One year before you got here.

[1404] That's right.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] Shit changed on your watch.

[1407] But this movie, Soul Man, was a hit film.

[1408] It cost $4 million and made $35 million in cinemas when I was 11 years old.

[1409] And the lead was in Blackface and a Jerry Curl.

[1410] And the premise is almost worse than, than the black face itself, which is he did it so he could go to college, because it's so fucking easy to go to college if you're black.

[1411] So the only reason I bring that up is I feel compelled to point out, when we learn of these people that were in blackface in the early 80s, it's so regrettable.

[1412] It's such a bummer.

[1413] But also, there was a hit movie out that no one cared about.

[1414] Well, no, I shouldn't say that.

[1415] Certainly people in the black community probably hated this fucking movie.

[1416] In 1986.

[1417] But I do think it's a tiny bit relevant to remember, like, just that's how fucking different culture was in 1986.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] Because I'm inclined to go, like, what a monster.

[1420] That person went as a black person, the Halloween in 1985.

[1421] But then I also go like, well, and there was a hit movie.

[1422] So clearly it seemed like that was no problem.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] Again, black people always knew it was a problem.

[1425] They did always know it was a problem.

[1426] I guess I'm saying I at 11 didn't know like, oh, this is.

[1427] insanely wrong.

[1428] I know it's completely wrong now, but I can't, I don't remember at 11 going like, oh my God, what an offensive movie.

[1429] Yeah, I know.

[1430] I don't think America was reacting that way either.

[1431] Probably not, but they should have been with, it's just that that timing was different.

[1432] And I, I'm grateful that that movie can't exist anymore.

[1433] That people know.

[1434] Me too.

[1435] If you're born in the 90s or the 2000s, I understand that that time frame is inconceivable, but I'm just saying like I lived through it.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] And I'm also going to say, we're going to look at some shit in about 20 years that we're doing right now in 2021.

[1438] And it's going to seem insane.

[1439] It is.

[1440] Yes.

[1441] That is absolutely true.

[1442] Thank God I never did that because I've done a bunch of terrible things.

[1443] This isn't, it's just one that I didn't happen to participate in.

[1444] Anyone who one of those things surfaces, should immediately recognize that it was horrendous and they should regret it.

[1445] Yeah.

[1446] But the inclination to just draw a wholesale conclusion on their, who they were.

[1447] Character, yeah.

[1448] Yeah, just, you know, you'd also have to do that to Thomas E. Howe, how you'd have to do that to everyone that saw that, you know.

[1449] The guy that played the Indian man in short circuit.

[1450] Short circuit, yeah.

[1451] He most certainly wouldn't do that today.

[1452] No. Yeah, he was blinded by this soup.

[1453] But even like Hank, Azaria, like he wouldn't.

[1454] in either and you have to let society grow and learn and I think yeah but but we're in a very bizarre time period where everything everyone did 30 years ago is still quite in your face yeah it just wasn't before it's like people weren't aware of those growing pains in 1980 because there wasn't abundant footage of people from 1950 I know it's scary yeah yeah and I think because that is a development we have to have some kind of computation to understand at all.

[1455] I agree.

[1456] Gwyneth was still as radiant as she was last time, if not more.

[1457] Her outfit, oh, my God.

[1458] My God.

[1459] It's perfect.

[1460] Well, okay, we were watching a show the other day and you were like, their shirts are too perfect.

[1461] That wouldn't be, that wouldn't be real life.

[1462] Like, there would be wrinkles and maybe it was the end of the day for these people.

[1463] They had been wearing these shirts all fucking day.

[1464] And they had just been steamed.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] Yeah.

[1467] However, Gwynet's outfit looked absolutely perfect.

[1468] She had been sitting in a car for an hour, you know, and she had no wrinkles on her white pants.

[1469] Almost impossible.

[1470] It was noon, though, or one?

[1471] It was noon.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] It's getting hot in here, do you think?

[1474] In this dwelling.

[1475] I can put the air on.

[1476] You don't have to.

[1477] I'm just wondering if you noticed that the temperature's...

[1478] I didn't.

[1479] But you worked out, so maybe that's part of it.

[1480] I did work out.

[1481] It was too hard because I haven't been eating enough carbohydrates because I cut out gluten because of my arthritis.

[1482] And then when I do that, I realize almost all the carbs I typically eat are gluten -derived.

[1483] I'm either eating pasta or some bread.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] And now it's just me and rice.

[1486] That's really my only carbohydrates.

[1487] What are some other carbs we can get in there?

[1488] Well, apples.

[1489] I did have an apple for breakfast yesterday.

[1490] Okay.

[1491] I woke up at three.

[1492] This is an update.

[1493] And then I put my book on tape back on.

[1494] And then I had put it for 45 minutes.

[1495] It was always way too much time.

[1496] I don't even need that much time.

[1497] And then I heard it go off.

[1498] And I was like, oh, fuck.

[1499] It went off.

[1500] Reset it.

[1501] I heard it go off again.

[1502] For an hour.

[1503] Yeah.

[1504] Finally said, whatever, get out of bed.

[1505] It's 4 .40.

[1506] You're up.

[1507] And, well, that gave me time to prepare an egg and bacon and toast.

[1508] Proper I hop meal for my daughters.

[1509] So when they woke up, there was a full Denny spread on the counter.

[1510] And then I wasn't.

[1511] fucking with the gluten so I couldn't get that and I don't eat eggs so I was just munching on bacon I felt a little bit I'm like I can't just be munching on bacon so I had an apple okay that's a long way to tell you I did have an apple with some carbohydrates do you notice you're more lethargic no like I feel clearheaded and sharp but I do notice I run out of energy when I'm exerting myself for sure like I was sitting down between exercises, which I don't do.

[1512] Yeah.

[1513] And just kind of regrouping before the next one.

[1514] And I try to talk myself into only doing three sets instead of four.

[1515] But then I looked in the mirror and I was like, who are you going to be proud of?

[1516] The person that bought into this quitting or the person?

[1517] Yeah.

[1518] It was a, I had a whole crisis of conscious.

[1519] What about potatoes?

[1520] Yeah.

[1521] You should do that.

[1522] I should eat a bunch of potatoes.

[1523] Sweet potato.

[1524] Regular potato.

[1525] Potato head.

[1526] Oh, potato.

[1527] Um, Gwyneth, sex.

[1528] Gwyneth sex, yeah.

[1529] Well, I told a vulnerable story.

[1530] Yes, it was really incredible.

[1531] I was really impressed.

[1532] I don't regret it.

[1533] Good.

[1534] Mm -hmm.

[1535] And there's a lot of virgins that have the same experience.

[1536] I feel like they are the only ones in the world.

[1537] I think so.

[1538] That's why I said it.

[1539] Yeah.

[1540] And it doesn't mean you're not attractive.

[1541] It doesn't mean you're broken.

[1542] It's just your story.

[1543] story.

[1544] I have to explain that in my head.

[1545] I have to, and then I guess my assumption is that there's something religious.

[1546] That's like my first stop.

[1547] Odds wise.

[1548] That's probably it.

[1549] And then if not religion, more like a real, a huge devotion to something very, like something really important.

[1550] I placed a lot of weight on that.

[1551] Yes.

[1552] You want to be really in love with the person and all that, which, again, is a plenty fine explanation.

[1553] But neither are true.

[1554] Yeah, and that's the whole point of stereotypes is that, you know, I'm going through, click, click, click, what would be the most, the odds of this, and then unique.

[1555] And then most certainly, I think a ton of people listening will have had the same experience and for the same reason.

[1556] Yeah.

[1557] And then people like me will stop going through this category, what I think is the most probable category.

[1558] Yeah.

[1559] I'm happy I said it.

[1560] I'm grateful to the person involved who was very lovely.

[1561] Of course, it was crossing my mind, like, mid -rollout of the story, like, oh, I wonder if he'll listen to this.

[1562] I think he might, but absolutely zero negative things to say about him.

[1563] I'm him, and I'm hearing that.

[1564] I'm definitely liking that review.

[1565] I hope.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] It's scary.

[1569] It's scary to have to tell someone.

[1570] that.

[1571] But yeah, so what else about Gwen?

[1572] What about GP?

[1573] I think there's a little bit of stigma with Goop that like, oh, it's like fancy or it's and I fucking love it.

[1574] That's not the complaint I heard.

[1575] And it crossed my mind that I should bring it up and challenge around it because there's most certainly going to be 600 comments about this is a lot of people are critical that it's pseudoscience.

[1576] Right.

[1577] Which is fine.

[1578] That's probably a great complaint.

[1579] I don't even know if that's a good complaint.

[1580] But I do think it's also bullshit.

[1581] People just want to dislike her.

[1582] And so they've got another thing to hang it on.

[1583] So the first thing was, oh, of course you should eat more vegetables if you're rich.

[1584] And then she did a whole thing where she proved you could eat the vegetables.

[1585] Well, then it had to switch to something else.

[1586] So now it's that she's a proprietor of pseudoscience.

[1587] And it's like, okay.

[1588] And like you can pick and choose.

[1589] Like you don't have to say across the board, like, Like, okay, I believe absolutely every article that's on this, or I don't.

[1590] Like, you can pick and you can.

[1591] Yeah, like, you know, the FDA has never run studies on ginseng.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] They're not going to.

[1594] It's never going to happen, and no one can profit from it because it's natural.

[1595] So there will never be any evidence that ginseng does anything.

[1596] But most certainly people who are taking ginseng, take it for a reason.

[1597] Yeah, and it helps them.

[1598] And I think there's bozo charlatans.

[1599] So I think, you know.

[1600] I love it.

[1601] I love her.

[1602] I, I, um, she has these teeth.

[1603] She's these beautiful teeth.

[1604] She's these bright blue eyes and they really just kind of light up the room.

[1605] No, she has a lip, like a chapstick, I guess.

[1606] Oh, I can't call it.

[1607] Oh, I can't call it off.

[1608] A lip balm, God.

[1609] She has a lip balm.

[1610] Nope, she doesn't have a fungus.

[1611] Okay.

[1612] She has a bomb.

[1613] A lip balm, it's so good.

[1614] I'm, I've just.

[1615] run out and ding, ding, ding, ding, simulation.

[1616] Now, just like this week, they came out with a trio pack and there's the original and then there's two tinted ones.

[1617] They need to hire you as a brand ambassador.

[1618] I really think so.

[1619] I really think they should employ you.

[1620] I think I'm going to do some sort of gift guide.

[1621] Okay.

[1622] Great.

[1623] Great.

[1624] I don't know when or what or how.

[1625] Like on Instagram or as a standalone podcast.

[1626] What do you?

[1627] Because I've been encouraging you to do something style -oriented as a podcast because you're so stylish.

[1628] Everyone knows you're so stylish.

[1629] And you, y 'all, I've never seen anyone shop as much as Monica did and does.

[1630] But in England, it was just tremendous to see.

[1631] I mean, it was like, and then, you know, when we went to France, the Eiffel Tower was not number one on the list.

[1632] Most certainly this flea market that exists was number one on list.

[1633] So it is your life, like you're into it like I'm into cars, which is why I need a car podcast.

[1634] It's ridiculous that I don't do one.

[1635] I agree.

[1636] I'm going to ask you a rhetorical question.

[1637] You didn't by chance like at the end of that trip add up.

[1638] Nope.

[1639] Of course not.

[1640] Horse not.

[1641] I did stare at all the stuff and I was like, oh no, but I'm not going to go there.

[1642] Okay.

[1643] Because look, I am way into cars, but I have a budget for the cars.

[1644] I have a budget for the cars.

[1645] I'm sure.

[1646] Listen.

[1647] Listen, I'm your dad and older brother.

[1648] Like, I do, there's a gentle, like, you know, budgets are good.

[1649] They're good.

[1650] They're good.

[1651] I know, but, okay, do you want to be a person that I feel scared to tell, like, money stuff, too?

[1652] Well, first of all, you already are, so that ship is sale.

[1653] But why?

[1654] Because of this.

[1655] But what's interesting about that is I ask you all the time what stuff costs.

[1656] that you bought, and then I don't ever shame you about it.

[1657] I've never said it's stupid or you shouldn't or you can't or this is.

[1658] Now, adjacent to that, I'm making a broader point about finances, which is budgets are good.

[1659] Just because you don't say it doesn't mean I don't feel it.

[1660] I actually don't.

[1661] I like it about you.

[1662] I think it's adorable.

[1663] So I don't, I actually am not looking at you like, what a. fucking idiot.

[1664] She's blowing all of her money.

[1665] That thought has never crossed my mind.

[1666] Yeah, $50 ,000.

[1667] I'm just kidding.

[1668] Now, I can admit to where I'm horrendously wasteful is online ordering.

[1669] It's like, I find something, oh, those are gorgeous.

[1670] I haven't ordered one of the t -shirts to see if they fit the way I like t -shirts to fit.

[1671] I just get seven.

[1672] It happened.

[1673] None of these fucking awesome prints that I liked that I ordered fit well.

[1674] So I'll do that.

[1675] And then I don't even care.

[1676] I go, Okay, great.

[1677] Goodwill's, someone at Goodwill's getting like a brand new pair of slacks that I don't like that are nice.

[1678] Yeah.

[1679] So it doesn't bother me too much.

[1680] But I am pretty wasteful as far as that.

[1681] Like, I'll go all in on some items before I've tried to give them on.

[1682] I do.

[1683] I love shopping.

[1684] I can't, you know, I like looking around and enjoying what I'm seeing.

[1685] You and Mom like shopping together.

[1686] In fact, you got a back channel compliment.

[1687] She was talking about going shopping with someone else.

[1688] and telling me the experience, and she was like, yeah, you know, it just, it wasn't like being with Monica where it's like, oh, my God, look, there's the things.

[1689] I thought, oh, let's go upstairs.

[1690] You know, you guys like, oh, yeah, the other person wasn't getting high on it like you guys can do together.

[1691] It's a real, it's a bonding.

[1692] Yeah, you're gathering.

[1693] I hate to say it.

[1694] We are.

[1695] We are.

[1696] We do still hunt in other ways and women still gather.

[1697] I think you're right.

[1698] And for me, like, I've been growing up on this.

[1699] That was what we did.

[1700] That's what Callie and I did every weekend.

[1701] Like, we went to the mall and we, you know, I've been doing it since I was in middle school.

[1702] Since you were one years old.

[1703] Brand new baby.

[1704] Brand new baby.

[1705] White dress.

[1706] Oh, top of the line.

[1707] Prediporte.

[1708] Is that a thing?

[1709] Netaporte.

[1710] Netaporte.

[1711] Yeah.

[1712] No, what is it when it's designed to wear?

[1713] What is that expression?

[1714] Prediporte?

[1715] Maybe.

[1716] I don't even know that.

[1717] Oh, my God.

[1718] Let me say that and see if it'll spell it because God knows I can't spell it.

[1719] Prediporte.

[1720] Ready to wear it.

[1721] Wear.

[1722] Look at that.

[1723] You taught me something about fashion.

[1724] What is the difference between hot couture and prediporte.

[1725] Prettae quite literally means ready to wear.

[1726] Hot couture is generally used to deem anything high fashion.

[1727] Yeah.

[1728] This isn't too far off as hot culture means high sewing or high dressmaking.

[1729] But that makes sense.

[1730] So Netaporte is a play on prediporte then.

[1731] That's right.

[1732] That's right.

[1733] Yeah, rate -aware, rate -aware.

[1734] Good job knowing that.

[1735] It's impressive.

[1736] That would have fallen into the 50 % you didn't believe me. Like, had I not Googled it?

[1737] You wouldn't have probably repeated, like, oh, prediporté means rate -of -ware.

[1738] I heard it from Dax.

[1739] Yeah, you're right.

[1740] Yeah, yeah.

[1741] And that's, nor should you.

[1742] But if you said cars, I would believe.

[1743] Damn well better.

[1744] I will.

[1745] I do.

[1746] That would just be a total waste of your time if I told you a car thing and you looked it up.

[1747] No, I would never.

[1748] You're the expert there.

[1749] That is my, that is the thing I probably know the most about.

[1750] And then second surgery.

[1751] Yeah.

[1752] And wait, I wanted to say one more thing.

[1753] Oh, no, just back to, I don't know what's going to happen with my gift guide.

[1754] I don't know how I'm going to do that.

[1755] Probably on Instagram.

[1756] But I, I love looking at gift guides at the holidays.

[1757] It's like my favorite thing.

[1758] And so I'm going to make one.

[1759] A gift guide.

[1760] Yeah, for the holidays.

[1761] I think that's great.

[1762] For the holidays.

[1763] For the holidays, for your health.

[1764] Like, what to get your best friend, what to get your mom.

[1765] Uh -huh.

[1766] Are you going to do different strata of income?

[1767] Yeah.

[1768] Okay.

[1769] I'll do a variety.

[1770] Okay.

[1771] Some for $40, some for $900 ,000, $2 ,000 to $6 ,000.

[1772] Yeah, exactly.

[1773] Anyway.

[1774] Anywho, love you.

[1775] Love you.

[1776] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you, get your podcasts.

[1777] You can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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