133 - Made of Crystals

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Even though it looks, it's like got a gene cover, a smart, I got it from North's from Rock, and it's like a denim cover.

[17] It's like...

[18] Wait, this is podcast gold.

[19] Oh, is this?

[20] What are we doing?

[21] Oh, is this?

[22] Is it, though?

[23] There's no better place to talk about a denim iPhone charger cover, cord cover that I'm a murder podcast.

[24] George is bragging that she not only has a really long iPhone charger cord, but that it's covered in denim.

[25] It's got like a denim sleeve.

[26] So it's like a really long, light blue snake.

[27] Yes, thin, like a garden snake.

[28] Gross.

[29] We've talked about snakes like three times in the past.

[30] They're very sexual.

[31] Gross.

[32] Mom.

[33] Hey, welcome.

[34] To my favorite murder.

[35] The podcast where we talk about denim.

[36] And snakes.

[37] Let's fucking.

[38] We have so many things to discuss, announce, and talk about.

[39] Yeah.

[40] That we can't even get into our usual zip, zap, zap, bullshit that we do at the top because this is one of the ones that we've been saying to you guys we can't wait to tell you this thing when we tell you we promise it'll be worth it this is the reason we're always tired this is the reason we're always complaining vaguely about something and putting up a live episode and and you know maybe fighting maybe there's been light fighting I think I've this is no one of the main reasons I started going gray this past year is because we wrote a book We wrote a book.

[41] And we wrote it for you.

[42] Oh, my God.

[43] It's coming out June of 2019.

[44] May of 2019.

[45] I said May of 2019.

[46] May 11th my birthday?

[47] Oh, I don't know.

[48] Probably not.

[49] But it's called, it's called, you're not going to believe this title.

[50] It's called.

[51] This is nuts.

[52] Listen.

[53] It's called.

[54] Write this down.

[55] Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[56] That's right.

[57] That's what's called.

[58] Here's my advice to people who want to write a book.

[59] Write half of a book and have someone else write the other half.

[60] It's a lot easier.

[61] we did this book like we do the podcast and it was great and also it's not I don't think it's people it's what people might think it is it kind of it's kind of what we didn't it's not what we thought it was going to be it turned into its own beast which is actually kind of cool it's it's essentially like a memoir of all the fucked up stories we've lightly told you about on the podcast before we're like hey remember that one time you lit the bed on fire and that one time I went to rehab have in like you know all these like really really personal fucking stories inter spliced with true crime things that are related to it that we're interested in yeah and uh it's just really really personal and we both had to have a lot of emergency therapy sessions yeah there was crying for sure it turns out when you have to revisit all these awful like um what are they called stories stories of experiences we have it like warning other people cautionary tales oh right that we're trying to impart on the like 20 somethings who listen to the podcast It dredges some shit up inside.

[62] When your amazing editor, Allie, is like, what did it smell like and sound and taste like?

[63] And you're just like, oh, I don't want to go back there.

[64] Yeah, I don't.

[65] You start to realize, oh, the reason that I procrastinate is not because I'm a bad person or all those things that I like to tell myself.

[66] It's like, oh, you don't want to sit there and think about your dead mom that much.

[67] Right.

[68] But you do it.

[69] But you got it.

[70] You do it for the book.

[71] And we wrote a fucking book about it.

[72] And honestly, I didn't get through.

[73] some like crazy shit.

[74] I know we really we put it on the page people so yeah um you know you guys you know there was a pre -announcement that and you guys the reaction and response of course was amazing because you guys are amazing and that sounds so funny but uh we were very blown away yesterday is for us chronologically is when it happened yesterday i was thinking about how this is just another in the series of the past two and a half years that's like it's like a montage set to Eye of the Tiger of our lives where we just keep tripping upwards.

[75] It's very odd.

[76] It's just another one of those like, seriously that this is fucking happening?

[77] Like, it's insane.

[78] So it's on pre -sale all over the place where you buy books, Amazon.

[79] Stephen's handing a thing to you.

[80] Oh, the release date.

[81] Oh, the release date.

[82] Thank you so much.

[83] May 28th.

[84] I wasn't totally wrong.

[85] Between our two birthdays.

[86] That's right.

[87] They actually decided.

[88] May 28th, 2019 is when this book is available.

[89] But you can pre -order it now, and that actually really helps us out.

[90] If you're going to buy it anyways, and pre -order it because it makes it a big splash.

[91] Sure.

[92] Or whatever the fuck.

[93] Which it's already done.

[94] I mean, yeah.

[95] It's just an incredible, I just have always wanted to write a book, and I didn't ever think I was going to.

[96] Yeah, same here.

[97] And I'm thrilled.

[98] We're both genuinely excited, which is very scary.

[99] So thank you for being there for us.

[100] We are very excited, and God bless fucking America.

[101] now almost may be more important it's the yoga bulletin yes it's this week's yoga bulletin let's say on this at this count of three the answer of whether or not you and i as we promised last week would go to one yoga class on the count of three one two three yes yes yes yes in fact georgia did you do it the very fucking next day yeah and it seems like i was showing off like i know it's like a showoffy thing It was all coincidence.

[102] To go to you.

[103] I was even, because I sent you a photo, like, after the class.

[104] I took a photo in front of the sign.

[105] And I was like, I went.

[106] And I was like, maybe I should save this for a couple days.

[107] So it doesn't seem like I went the next day.

[108] And I seem like I'm showing her that I did it first.

[109] No, I loved it because it meant you were fucking serious.

[110] You know, we've done a lot of things.

[111] Let's say, you know, the My Sweet Audrina Book Club.

[112] Where we start things.

[113] And then we're just like, ugh.

[114] But now we can actually say, the reason we couldn't do the My Sweet Adrenal Book Club is fucking writing that book so it's not like we can sit around and be like here i'm going to type up my thoughts on this it's like we always had when we were in the fucking european tour we weren't done with the book yet and we had just found out before we left the european that we had an extra week which was like we were both ready to fucking jump off bridges it was so stressful when we were on the australian tour we were supposed to be getting the book done and we were not and it was very difficult it's been we've birthed a baby of paper and words and i'm not not yeah it's it's scary it's big and scary and there's a lot of there's a lot of blood and sweat on the paper and you can't guilt them into liking it um and also we're in the yoga bullet and let's not go backwards so it was it was an accent the next day uh on a thursday i had therapy at one and i was like i'm just going to check the my favorite yoga studio down the street from my therapist favorite yoga and it was like it was like 45 minutes after my therapy was over this class was going to start by this teacher I really like and my favorite it just all lined up because also like I have so many parameters of like whether or not I'm going to go like what time is it because the parking lot's going to be busy and so I'm just not going to go you know yeah so we went parameters also excuses excuses there's all different ways to define that I had 45 minutes I fucking went into my favorite vintage shop down the street real quick bought a cute 80s blouse then went to fucking yoga kill like I a great class, this teacher's amazing.

[115] And it was like, and I, it was great.

[116] It was fucking what I needed.

[117] So I get that message from Georgia.

[118] I'm like really impressed, genuinely, very impressed.

[119] It was great because I know we both wanted to do it, but I want to do things all the time and I don't honor my, my own wants.

[120] I'll be like, well, that's dumb and doesn't matter or you're to this and that and the other thing.

[121] You tell ambitious Karen that she's being stupid.

[122] Oh, I mean, stop trying to make me cry.

[123] So I saw yours and I was like, yep, this is something it's important to do.

[124] And then the more we started getting, you know, you guys started tweeting us and being like, I'm a yoga instructor and I do this.

[125] Or like, I didn't want to go today, but I knew Karen and Georgia would be mad at me. Yes.

[126] Which is great.

[127] Use our anger at you.

[128] Please do, because it is real.

[129] We will be mad at you.

[130] So I started making, of course, we constantly talk about our friend Lizzie Cooperman, who Lizzie is a, definitely a yoga person so I sent her a message and I was basically to say I got to go to one of these and I know I'm not going to so can you please be my Sherpa yeah and she starts sending me oh no texts of different yoga classes around town but of course Lizzie is kind of not of this hemisphere right of this even galaxy she's like made of crystals she's magical yeah so she starts sending me. I sent you one that I thought, I was signed up to go to and then I didn't go to because I freaked out.

[131] And it was basically, she was like, all you do is lay there.

[132] Yeah.

[133] And they do gongs and chimes.

[134] This is not my style at all.

[135] I was like, I don't want to go with Lizzie because I know we're just going to put a bolster on our hips and lay there for eight hours.

[136] And I can't do that.

[137] And do the gong.

[138] I need a fucking sweat and stretch and like it.

[139] Lizzie was like, they're going to put peppermine oil in your hand.

[140] And we're going to regress back to when we used to live on the Savannah.

[141] There'll be a tarot card on your fore and I had to guess which one of the terror card is.

[142] You win in membership.

[143] Yeah.

[144] So I said I would do that.

[145] And then at the last second, I basically was like, I'm still laying down.

[146] This is weird.

[147] Yeah.

[148] And I had to call in some phony excuse.

[149] She was like, don't even worry about it.

[150] Oh, you know what I did?

[151] I went, this is place of air conditioning.

[152] Again, requirements, right?

[153] You're like, oh, this is not good enough.

[154] Uh -huh.

[155] So then it came, uh, I can't remember what day it was.

[156] I think it may have been Monday.

[157] Uh -huh.

[158] And then I was like, fucking do this.

[159] Like, stop it.

[160] And then I realized, just, go to one that's not in Hollywood.

[161] Yes.

[162] Get out of fucking, I don't even live in Hollywood.

[163] So like go somewhere, small, cool, low key.

[164] And I went back to a yoga studio I used to go to like, it was easily like 11 years ago.

[165] And when I walked in, so I was like, I'm doing this.

[166] I signed up online so that I would go.

[167] Paid the money already.

[168] Never do that.

[169] Did all those pre things.

[170] Was all like, I'm good.

[171] And I went 15 minutes early in case they made you feel something out.

[172] That's my thing, too.

[173] If you get there early, if you don't have to walk into a room full of people, it makes me, like, I get set up, I'm there, you know, it's not overwhelming.

[174] Yeah, and it's not, you're not tiptoeing and whispering weird.

[175] Right.

[176] But as I hit the door, what did I forget?

[177] Tragically.

[178] Your yoga mat?

[179] That's right.

[180] Oh, you can rent them there.

[181] Yes, but have you ever smelled the yoga mats they rent?

[182] It is like the sweat of what, I'm yelling at you.

[183] I was like, as I hit the door, I was like, well, that's.

[184] just your payment for like being so freaked out and I rented this yoga it was a great class it was a gentle class yeah it couldn't have been easier the entire time I was thinking there was a couple things where we had to do like a downward dog into a leg lift and I was like this isn't a grandma move like this was supposed to be a grandma class but it was basically starting you grandma and then moving you into like can you lift your leg off the ground you might as well try yeah go and if not move into child's pose I also realize I can't do child's pose Because you can't, like, sit back on your hunches enough?

[185] I can't sit, like, my legs, the way my body is shaped.

[186] Child's pose is, it essentially looks like I'm hunched over something trying to take it apart.

[187] Like you've passed out face first while you were sitting up on your knees.

[188] Yeah.

[189] It looks like I'm getting back up from having passed out.

[190] It's super weird.

[191] And I just sat there going like, oh, this is so embarrassing to not be able to do child's pose.

[192] And then by that time, I was like, who gives a shit about anything?

[193] Nobody is looking at you.

[194] Yeah.

[195] So, and then what I loved was the teacher of the class, and normally this would freak me out.

[196] When I walked in, she was like, there was a lady behind a desk, but then the teacher was like, hi, what's your name?

[197] And I was like, normally I would turn around and walk out.

[198] I'm so not a joiner at all.

[199] That stuff like that, I'm just like, I don't want to be friends with you.

[200] But she's like, what's your name?

[201] And I'm like, Karen, she's like, have you taken this class before?

[202] And I'm like, I mean, I've been here, but it was probably, and then I lie and shave five years off.

[203] and I was like maybe six years ago and she goes six years and then I was like oh my god I love this woman she's not going like whispering gentle you know asanas in my hair she was like six years well then she was like well she was here six years ago and was like kind of giving me shit oh and you love that I love it because I would have been like shamed into leaving no I thought it happened I went into mine and I was like I think I have like I had bought like a 10 pass class and she was like yeah um you haven't used it in a year so it expired and I was like oh that's It's so embarrassing.

[204] I'm like, I'll just, I'll just pay.

[205] It's fine.

[206] I'll just pay.

[207] Even it was like, fucking $22 for yoga class, like on its own.

[208] And then when I came out, she was like, I just, I renewed your, the classes you have left over.

[209] I'm like, thank you.

[210] She's, that's truly a yoga move.

[211] Yeah.

[212] That's a yogic move.

[213] It was generous.

[214] That's, she's, I feel like her solar plexus chakras all the way open.

[215] That's not the right time.

[216] All the way open.

[217] It's all the way live.

[218] I mean, there's basically, do you know what a yoni egg is?

[219] Do you?

[220] Yeah.

[221] Okay.

[222] Well, she has...

[223] Do you?

[224] That was the most sixth grade voice I've ever heard.

[225] Do you?

[226] Do you know it?

[227] The thing of prove it.

[228] Tell me what it is.

[229] Yeah.

[230] Tell me. Draw a picture of it.

[231] Well, Glyneth Paltrow sells them on her website, I bet.

[232] She fucking does.

[233] I have a friend who uses one and I just am always...

[234] Why did they have a baby?

[235] Horrified.

[236] No, she's just...

[237] She's also made of crystals.

[238] Okay.

[239] Okay.

[240] I have a correction.

[241] Corner.

[242] Okay.

[243] Should I do...

[244] Oh, but also let's keep doing yoga.

[245] yoga, the yoga bulletin.

[246] Once a day, I mean, once a day.

[247] Just once a day, guys.

[248] No big deal.

[249] Once a week.

[250] Let's all go to yoga.

[251] If you can do more great, if you can't do one, do two next week, whatever.

[252] But like...

[253] And your speed, you can do an online one.

[254] There's a lot of great apps and shit that have yoga.

[255] You don't want to go anywhere.

[256] So many.

[257] And also, we got a lot of recommendations of online ones.

[258] So if you're looking for recommendations, look at other people talking about this on our field.

[259] What about a fucking murderino meetup yoga class?

[260] I bet there's so many murderino yoga teachers.

[261] who can do like a murdering our class.

[262] Must be.

[263] There must be.

[264] Yeah.

[265] Let's do it.

[266] Strengths.

[267] Corrections.

[268] But that's just spirituality.

[269] Okay.

[270] Sorry, go ahead.

[271] Did you want to keep going?

[272] With your yoni egg?

[273] Now, that's your junior year of high school voice.

[274] Here's an email.

[275] It's titled, well, here, I'll just say, hey guys, love the podcast, etc. Just thought you should know, just thought I should get you an email to let you know that here in Australia, our majestic landmark is referred to Ula Ru, not Iirs.

[276] Rock, Ayers Rock.

[277] So last week I did the Dingo ate my baby story and I called it Ayers Rock but it's actually Ula Roo and then this person says using its traditional name shows respect to the traditional custodians the Arna New people and thank you for the fucking she spelled it out or phonetically so I yeah a lot of people told me that and it's respectful and I appreciate that on a completely different note I've just started a weekly yoga class and it's making me very happy fucking hooray And then she, I guess there's a little yoga emoji.

[278] Stay sexy, Hannah.

[279] So thanks Hannah.

[280] And thanks for everyone letting me know.

[281] To be honest, it just said on the Wikipedia that it's called what either one and the one that looked hard to pronounce, I didn't say.

[282] Yeah.

[283] So, but now I know.

[284] Yeah, this is how we learn and grow.

[285] Right.

[286] Speaking of, I really quickly want to plug the summer camp line, limited time, summer camp run.

[287] It's, people are sending us photos and it looks so fucking cool on everyone.

[288] And we also want to let you guys know, one, that 5 % of all sales for the summer camp line go to Camp Hope, which is a summer camp for kids who have experienced trauma and, and violence, like domestic violence.

[289] And, oh, we are replacing the tent design.

[290] The teepee design with a new tent.

[291] So keep an eye out for that.

[292] We're getting rid of it.

[293] We heard you.

[294] Keep an eye out.

[295] Yeah.

[296] That's it.

[297] Go to My Favorite Murder.

[298] Atcom at the store, at the top, there should be like a summer camp clicky thing.

[299] Click on that.

[300] Sweet.

[301] Okay.

[302] Anything else for you?

[303] I'm sorry, I yelled at you.

[304] That's okay.

[305] I mean, I'm going to get back at you later on this week.

[306] Maybe I'll trick you into coming to my yoga class and then I'll readjust you in a bad way.

[307] Don't put peppermint oil in my hand, lose.

[308] Hey, this is exciting.

[309] An all new season of only murders in the building is kind of.

[310] Coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[311] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[312] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[313] Who killed Saz?

[314] And were they really after Charles?

[315] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[316] This season, murder hits close to home.

[317] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[318] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[319] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[320] Who knows what will happen once the camera starts.

[321] to roll.

[322] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[323] Only murders in the building premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[324] Goodbye.

[325] Jirja, what if I told you we could be transported to the 1920s to solve a murder?

[326] I'd say my entire life and wardrobe have led me to this point.

[327] If you want to escape to a bygone age of mystery, danger, and romance, then check out June's journey, the hidden mystery game that tests your detective skills.

[328] June's journey is a mobile mystery game that follows June Parker and New York socialite living in London.

[329] As June Parker, you'll investigate beautifully detailed scenes of the 1920s while uncovering the mystery of her sister's murder.

[330] There are twists, turns, and catchy tunes all leading you deeper into the thrilling storyline.

[331] And if you play well enough, you could make it to the detective club where you can chat with other players and either team up with them or compete against them.

[332] June needs your help, but watch out.

[333] You never know which character might be a villain.

[334] Find out as you escape this world and dive into June's world of mystery, murder, and romance.

[335] Can you crack the case?

[336] Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[337] Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[338] That's June's Journey, download the game for free on iOS and Android.

[339] Goodbye.

[340] All right.

[341] Who's first?

[342] Yeah, Georgia, you're first.

[343] Thank you.

[344] Thank you, Stephen.

[345] It is.

[346] Oh, yeah.

[347] Okay, whatever.

[348] Here we go.

[349] This is a really fucked up story that I'm fascinated by, even though I didn't know a ton about it, as always.

[350] Get ready for the horrible story of the Gainesville Ripper.

[351] Oh, Jesus.

[352] I went there.

[353] But don't worry, I'm, it's not.

[354] Did you check with Stephen?

[355] Did you do it?

[356] We've never done it, have we?

[357] I don't think we have.

[358] Okay.

[359] Do you think you did it in Florida?

[360] I feel like I looked it up in Florida and then bum me out so bad.

[361] I didn't do it for a live show.

[362] I don't think you would have done this for a live show.

[363] Yeah, it's so.

[364] It's like such a classic serial killer horror show.

[365] And he's a fucking bastard who just wanted attention.

[366] So I don't actually talk about his life really at all because fuck him.

[367] And I'm not going to go into too much of the gruesome details because it's unnecessary to say anything too deep in there.

[368] Go for it.

[369] August 1990, here we are in the beautiful university town of Gainesville, Florida.

[370] It's ranked as the 13th best place to live in the United States by MoneyMess.

[371] magazine and you know money magazine sorry what year 1990 okay so it's like it was a weird time yeah 90s like end of the 80s you know it's like this this there's that it's still kind of an innocent time there was this and that I remember end of the 80s start of the 90s there's this there's that it's like still a little like antiquated and as far as like technology's concern there's no technology there's none there was we were still in full payphone mode in 1990 if someone had a car phone they were a drug dealer or a doctor and they were like the biggest car phone you've ever was like one of the seats had to be removed for your car phone yeah it actually was the seat you leaned over and stuck your ear on this on this passenger seat you've removed one door and held it up to your ear of your Ferrari like a delorian yeah like a delirium the door had to be open and that was your phone that just reminded me my next runy brandy winington who who is a legendary human being and when we were growing up was one of the funniest people and one of the oddest people, he, uh, when car phones became popular, this was back in the late 80s when it was like preppy time and people, everyone pretended they were rich.

[372] Yeah.

[373] Which I actually talk about in one of my chapters of the book.

[374] Oh, shit.

[375] Um, how the 80s made everyone think that they were supposed to pretend to be rich.

[376] And which is why we have this weird cult of Donald Trump because it's all those aspirational people are like, someday I'll have a goal.

[377] department and it's like why but just aspire to not be a piece of shit maybe and like have a little bit of savings so you don't go broke if you get sick because you don't have health insurance and we'll cover anything yes anyway anyhow my next door neighbor bought a fake car phone no that he used to yes and if we could see I wish it was called like bull something so there was a picture it was like basically saying it was bullshit and it had a one of those real tight wrapped cords yes but it was a corded car phone so it was like he would pretend to talk on the phone in because he had bought himself a used Porsche oh my god he was all about that life and it was one of the funniest things could he would just pretend to have fake conversations because he wanted to be seen as someone who had one or because he was thinking it was funny oh because he actually wanted people to be like holy shit he's got a phone i think both like i think he thought it was hilarious but he also did want to look like a doctor status or a rich person just pop those fucking eyes odd double eyes odd collars he also had he bought He had a Latigra, and he had his grandma sew an IZod alligator on over because he, like, somebody, he had a ripped IZod.

[378] And I remember him showing me the final product, which was Frankenstein Isod Alligator, which was really raised up because there was a, whatever the, the tiger one was underneath it.

[379] And I was just like, sorry, where are you going to wear this?

[380] Yeah.

[381] You're going to get beaten into, too.

[382] Nobody cares.

[383] Submission, yeah.

[384] Two.

[385] It was hilarious.

[386] But we all cared back then.

[387] Self help.

[388] Work on yourself.

[389] well there you got all the solutions tonight's right i just had karen run down with the 90 in 1990 was like you got it money magazine of course was like a big like the best place one of the best places live by money magazine where it's like got money magazine yeah you think they have anything we want to read about in there this was the era of like greed is good yeah that whole thing where it's has never gone away and it's it's done real damage to this culture okay so um august 1990 it's the beginning of a new school semester at Florida State University in Gainesville.

[390] Gainesville is like a big college town.

[391] So like the population doubles during the school year.

[392] Wow.

[393] It's like one of those kinds of places.

[394] But it's also like cute and like a nice little town.

[395] About 36 ,000 students came to campus and we're moving in.

[396] Excited to start the new school year, which I'm sure happens when you're in college.

[397] I wouldn't know.

[398] But little do they know that their town is about to turn.

[399] turn into the inspiration from the 1996 hit horror film Scream.

[400] Did you know that?

[401] I didn't.

[402] So on the Sunday before class was about to begin, August 26th, at 4 p .m., a police officer arrives at the Williamsburg Village apartments because of complaints about loud music, which is not unusual, obviously, for a college town.

[403] When the cop arrives, he finds the building maintenance van waiting along with the parents of the girl who lives in the apartment where the complaint is happening, 17 -year -old Christina Powell of Jacksonville, Florida.

[404] And her parents are worried because they hadn't heard from her all weekend, which, of course, again, police are like, that's totally normal.

[405] But when he found out that her car was still there and she knew they were supposed to be showing up that day and still hadn't answered her phone or her door, they were worried.

[406] So he starts to worry.

[407] And she hadn't been seen since Friday.

[408] The parents of Christina, her parents are also worried about her roommate, Sonia Larson, who's 18 of Deerfield Beach, also hasn't called home as scheduled that day.

[409] So neither of them have been heard from.

[410] The parents are told to wait outside as the maintenance man and the officer go to the apartment's door on the second floor.

[411] They bang on the door.

[412] There's no answer.

[413] The maintenance man tries the key and for some reason the key won't work.

[414] So they break the window of the what's it called door.

[415] The door.

[416] sliding glass door no they break a window on the door frame they can't reach the lock but they can immediately smell a strong foul odor coming out of the house as soon as they break the window fucking scary so together they break down the door and um as soon as they enter the apartment they find the bloodied naked body of sonia on her bed she had been stabbed over 20 times in the back and raped and then uh posed in a sexually explained way, and she had been mutilated.

[417] Oh.

[418] The body of Christina is found downstairs to stab repeatedly mutilated and also posed in a shocking way, like on purpose, which we know a lot of fucking psychopaths do.

[419] So police are shocked at the fucking savagery of this attack.

[420] One local reporter says it was the first time he had not been allowed directly in to see the crime scene, which freaked him out.

[421] And also he said that he knew something was wrong after he saw one of the seasoned officers rush out of the house and barf in the bushes.

[422] Yeah.

[423] Which is like, that that's not what you want to see.

[424] Yeah, because whoever, who would, you're never so seasoned that something like that wouldn't, like, completely traumatize you as a person.

[425] Totally, totally.

[426] But then you, you know, as someone, as like a bystander, like, that's, I don't want to see the police officer not being able to handle what he just saw.

[427] Yes.

[428] That's the absolute worse.

[429] So a neighbor had reported that They had heard someone showering and playing loud music on the Friday night By the way, it's George Michael's faith for some reason I don't know why that was an interesting fucking tidbit As well as banging sound that he thought was just the girls hanging paintings So it was determined that they probably had been killed on Friday night Detectives worked the scene late into the night The news and gruesome details spread through the college town including that the killer had removed and taken one of the girls' nipples with a sharp blade.

[430] And, of course, fear and panic totally ensue all these, like, fucking young college kids who had just arrived for the new semester.

[431] And they were right to be fucking terrified because before they had even packed up at the first crime scene, detectives are called to the second.

[432] Oh.

[433] Can you fucking imagine the...

[434] I feel like I read about this while it was happening, but I was 10 years old, so that can't be right.

[435] Yeah.

[436] Krista Hoyt is 18 of Archer, and she had not arrived for her midnight shift as a records clerk at the sheriff's department, and she wasn't answering her phone.

[437] So at 1230, in the morning two officers arrived at her front door and knocked.

[438] They got no answer.

[439] They saw her car was parked, of course, close by.

[440] The building manager shows up and brings the officers around to the back of the house, but immediately the building manager notices that something's wrong with the gate.

[441] had been knocked over like this is damaged and this is a problem so the officers make sure no one's in the backyard and then they try the sliding glass door the back door which is locked but they noticed that the blinds didn't go all the way to the bottom of the door so they crouched down on their hands and knees look through the fucking little space that they can see and to their horror they're able to see the body of a naked woman sitting on the edge of the bed and she's like folded over um kind of just sitting there there with a pool of blood at her feet, she still has her shoes and socks on.

[442] And they realize that the body doesn't have a head.

[443] Oh, I know.

[444] The officers hear the water running inside the house.

[445] And so they wait for backup in case the killer still inside.

[446] I think it was that they heard a shower running.

[447] And once backup arrives, they enter the house.

[448] It had been ransacked for valuables.

[449] and they find water dripping in the shower and blood pooling, but no one was there.

[450] So, like, was the killer there when they were, when they first spotted her body?

[451] They also find Krista's head and it's placed in a shocking manner just to, like, get the attention.

[452] And her body is also mutilated.

[453] So news fucking spreads, like, crazy through the community.

[454] This is, within, like, two days this is happening.

[455] Students were terrified and they knew that anyone could be next.

[456] The Gainesville phone lines are just.

[457] and, like, not working because so many students were trying to call home and so many parents were trying to call in.

[458] Like, this is why I don't want kids is the thought of, like, your kid being there and how fucking terrifying that would be.

[459] I just couldn't handle it.

[460] I honestly feel like I would have just left and gone home.

[461] Yeah.

[462] I think that's what's interesting, too, about it.

[463] It's, like, you think about what I have done.

[464] Yeah.

[465] And so many left, but so many didn't, too, you know?

[466] Well, yeah, because there's a lot of people they just don't have that option or, like, it's that thing where, you know.

[467] Like, how much joy I need to panic.

[468] right now.

[469] Yes.

[470] And there are some people who don't kind of either maybe know that much about stuff like this.

[471] Like we have spent lots of time in our life going, this is a thing that can happen.

[472] It's going to happen again.

[473] Right.

[474] But there's some people who I think dissociate a little bit or just go like, that's not about me. That couldn't happen to me. Yeah.

[475] Totally.

[476] Yeah.

[477] That's very true.

[478] Students, but also students like stay together overnight.

[479] Some of them say as many is like a dozen to 20 people per apartment.

[480] Like they're just all camping out together.

[481] Okay.

[482] Just complete sidebar separation.

[483] Let's do it.

[484] This is horrible.

[485] Great.

[486] That would be so fun.

[487] I mean, any excuse.

[488] Not that scenario.

[489] Obviously is in no way fun.

[490] No, no. I get what you're saying.

[491] Separately, if like for me. When like I lived in New York very briefly and one time there was a blizzard that hit and we literally had to walk to the closest person's apartment and I'll stay the night there.

[492] Yeah.

[493] I live for that shit.

[494] Well, that reminds me. But, like, overall, like, you have to jam everybody in and everyone's like, oh, my God.

[495] And then you play games and get drunk.

[496] And that reminds me. And I think this is a better, this is what you, this is what you're talking about.

[497] But it's not, it's awful, but not as awful as my, I knew someone who when the, when the, the riots happened, the Rodney King riots happened.

[498] They were, like, in Hollywood at a friend's party.

[499] And they all went to the roof and, like, saw the city burning and, like, no one would leave.

[500] So they all stayed in the apartment for, like, a couple.

[501] days.

[502] Yeah.

[503] And I'm sure they got high as fuck the whole time.

[504] Yes.

[505] So no one wants to sleep alone.

[506] Also, like, lounge area in residence halls turns into like sleeping areas for students who live off campus.

[507] Sorority houses hire full -time security guards.

[508] But it's like, what if the security guard is the murderer, you know?

[509] They sleep with baseball bats and mace in their, under their pillows, extra locks are installed on their doors and windows, gun sales soar, helicopters all over town.

[510] at night, et cetera, you know, people are freaking the fuck out, as they should be.

[511] Students are told that they would not be penalized from missing class or going home, which a lot of them did.

[512] But try to penalize me. Are you crazy?

[513] Good, great.

[514] Pedalize me. I'm going to Europe for the summer for the school year.

[515] Then on Tuesday, so that was Sunday the first, the first victims were found.

[516] The next night, the second, the third one's found.

[517] Then Tuesday, so coming up on August 27th, just two days after the Hoyt murder two more victims are found manny tobota and tracy polis they're both 23 years old their roommates manny's a guy uh Tracy's a female manny is like six three fucking you know had been a high school athlete he's like bill and everyone loves him he's over 200 pounds um and manny and and tracy had been friends since high school so her parents were stoked when she was like i'm in a roommate with my friend manny and they're like great she's fucking safe which a hundred percent you would think so and uh so a friend of their of the two of them had asked another friend that lived in town to check on them when he hadn't heard from them since sunday the maintenance man unlocked the door and they immediately spotted tracy's naked bloody body in the hallway and the maintenance man they immediately like he does what he should he leaves and fucking locks the door on the way out and calls the police like you know making sure the scene is safe and no one's going to go in there but the police arrived five minutes later they find the door is now unlocked from the inside and the maintenance man was like when we came in I saw a fucking black like duffel bag near Tracy's body and it's gone now oh no dude oh fuck can you fucking imagine so the only reason probably that that maintenance man lived was because he was so smart to go do not contaminate this crime scene him and the friend who had come over they were together.

[518] Oh, right.

[519] So, yeah, he wasn't like, oh, no, what's going on?

[520] Let's go search for Manny.

[521] Because he saw the body.

[522] They were like, let's get the step back and let's get out of here.

[523] Unbelievable.

[524] Isn't that insane?

[525] And the fact that he remembered, like, you see something as horrible as that.

[526] And the fact that he remembered that there was a bag there still, you know, because you're, like, having the shock moment is insane.

[527] So Manny's body is found in his bed.

[528] And he was dead of a vicious struggle with someone who had a knife.

[529] And so basically it looked like someone had come in to subdue Manny.

[530] so that they could attack Tracy.

[531] And it's probably because of the interruption that there's no mutilations this time, but who knows what would happen if he had been found out later.

[532] Gainesville fucking blows up, you know, the media goes crazy.

[533] There's comparisons with the Ted Bundy killing spree in the college town of Tallahassee, Florida in 1978, and Ted Bundy had been sent to the electric chair just a year before these murders started happening.

[534] So everyone's like, this is fresh.

[535] Yeah.

[536] And we're the ones.

[537] it killed Ted Bundy and now this is going on.

[538] The comparisons also quickly made to Jack the Ripper because of the mutilations and that's when the media picks up on the moniker of the Gainesville Ripper and that's like plastered on the fucking front cover of every magazine all over the country.

[539] By this point, the bizarre murders had attracted widespread media attention.

[540] There's all these fucking news outlets and it does kind of remind you of the movie Scream.

[541] You can see where they got a lot of this stuff because, I mean, it makes sense.

[542] Well, I'm sure there were, you know, every once in a while you drive through LA and you'll look over and they'll be like a KTLA news van with the antenna all the way up.

[543] Totally.

[544] And someone's standing on a sidewalk doing a man on the street.

[545] Yeah.

[546] Like, of course that was happening all over that city.

[547] Right.

[548] Because that is what is a huge or story.

[549] Then there is an active, like, berserking serial killer on the loose.

[550] And what's so crazy about it is all these women, these like, it was like small brunette women that were being killed.

[551] And suddenly a fucking man who, like a big ethical.

[552] athletic man is attacked and killed too.

[553] And so everyone's like, well, now nobody's safe.

[554] This isn't just like women who live alone.

[555] Right.

[556] It's like, you're not even safe with your fucking best friend who's a dude who's like going to protect you.

[557] Right.

[558] It's like scaring everyone now.

[559] And they're like all, you know, the media are trying to get fucking interviews with all these college students who are freaking out.

[560] I'm sure there's a ton of good fucking footage online.

[561] That's so 1990.

[562] You can't even handle it.

[563] Just tons of scrunchies and crying.

[564] And then in the background.

[565] Crunched hair.

[566] If you want to call me, baby.

[567] Is that when that was?

[568] Okay.

[569] I don't know.

[570] Of course, there's enormous pressure on the Gainesville police to find the killer.

[571] Duh.

[572] There's a lengthy investigation that ensues with over 6 ,500 leads and over 1 ,500 pieces of evidence.

[573] 6 ,500 fucking leads.

[574] Initially, though, the police had very few cardible leads to go on.

[575] And they did, like, there's a couple people that got fingered for it and got, like, in the media spotlight and kind of like their lives ruined over it, which I don't want to get into because we don't, you know, sucks.

[576] Because it ruined their lives.

[577] It ruined their lives.

[578] So, uh, they're not connected immediately.

[579] Let's, so this is like, all right, let's start somewhere else.

[580] Here we go.

[581] 10 days after the last murder on September 7th in Ocala, Florida, about 40 miles from Gainesville, police arrest a dude named Danny Harold Rowling.

[582] He's 36 years old.

[583] he fucking looks like a young Al Bundy.

[584] Like, he looks like Al Bundy to me in every...

[585] Al Bundy, yes, yes.

[586] Okay.

[587] You know what's his name?

[588] The actor?

[589] Who I now think of as just from modern family.

[590] Like the opposite, well, not the opposite, but it's just such a refined version of Al Bundy.

[591] I love that guy.

[592] Give me a second.

[593] I'll remember his name.

[594] Ed.

[595] Ed.

[596] Grimley.

[597] Yeah, damn it.

[598] Norton.

[599] Vince, I mean, Vince.

[600] Oh, my God.

[601] Steven's pouring at me. Don't say it.

[602] Ed.

[603] Harris No, Ed Say it Ed O 'Neill We would never get there I would have gotten it Wait, wait really quick We were watching Modern Family one day My sister loves that show I love it too It's good Very consistently well written for years And the people on it are amazing My dad walks through the room Ed O 'Neill is on this screen And my dad walks through and goes He's an amazing handball player And keeps walking that's such a dad thing to say handball i'm like first of all you're not from brooklyn like what are you talking about and those are the like oh my god it's like hitting smacking things against a wall i feel like that's when dad would have been like oh yeah we used to play it the why yes exactly but he just had that tidbit of information yes and he read an article i bet he read like a as what's those old -timey people aARP he read an aARP article with ed o 'neill that talked about how much he loved fucking handball.

[604] It sounded to me like he had a friend who also was good at handball and maybe brag that he knew the guy from modern family.

[605] Like 25 years ago probably.

[606] Or 70 years ago.

[607] I mean like it's such an old sport.

[608] Yeah, it was hilarious.

[609] And of course we start laughing and then we're like, wait, we have follow questions.

[610] He was already like out in the driveway.

[611] Dad.

[612] Dad.

[613] Dad.

[614] Okay.

[615] So this fucking dude, this Ed O 'Neill, 36 -year -old Ed O 'Neill dude, which like, you see these photos of people.

[616] You shouldn't call him the Ed O 'Neill dude.

[617] Sure.

[618] You're right.

[619] You're right.

[620] You see these people and you're, and you're like, that's a, that guy's a gross old serial killer.

[621] And then you're like, wait, that guy's younger than me in that photo.

[622] It's bananas.

[623] Hard life?

[624] Hard living?

[625] We're seeding hairline, but if you hadn't seen that, I don't know.

[626] There's just something about him that's like, aged.

[627] Hard life for sure.

[628] Aged.

[629] Dark, dead shark eyes.

[630] No. Absolute piece of shit.

[631] Yeah.

[632] Biggest piece of shit.

[633] So September 7th.

[634] So this shit all happens.

[635] It started on August 28th, and now we're on September 7th.

[636] And 40 miles from Gainesville, this dude, 36 -year -old Danny Rowling, he's a drifter who was born in Shreveport, Louisiana.

[637] He'd been arrested on this date after an armed robbery of a Winn -Dixie.

[638] Did you ever go to Winn -Dixie?

[639] No, I've never been.

[640] Me neither, but I...

[641] Or a Piggly -Wigley.

[642] No, me neither.

[643] Neither.

[644] Shit.

[645] I think...

[646] Are they closed?

[647] I don't know.

[648] Everyone let us know.

[649] They'll all let us know.

[650] Any rhetorical question we ask gets answered.

[651] And you should see how I spelled this because I was in a hurry.

[652] Okay.

[653] And I, there's an X, there's a K next to an X. All right.

[654] So police, at this time when he gets arrested for this armed robbery, police are focused on this mentally ill student who had been evicted from the apartment complex where, um, where Tracy, Paulus and Manny had lived.

[655] So there's this dude who lived there.

[656] he's their prime suspect because he had his roommates were like you're fucking bananas because he was not taking his medication at the time yeah he had some issues and he was like a little fucking i mean he was an okay suspect because he was a little bananas but like quickly he didn't turn out um and he was their prime suspect this is the media being like this is the guy with his face on the fucking cover and it's not him so while in custody rolling he's super chatty like he wants to talk about himself a lot he admitted to the robbery he also admitted to shooting his father, which he's wanted for.

[657] Okay.

[658] His dad's a retired police lieutenant.

[659] Wow.

[660] You know, and then there's the like story of fucking this dude's life that's like horrible and his dad is a piece of shit and all this stuff.

[661] But it's like, well, that's no excuse to kill people.

[662] Is it the standard kind of abuse cycle and alcoholism and standard?

[663] All that stuff.

[664] Standard.

[665] So he had shot his father in the stomach and the head during an argument, but the dad lived and just had like his eye got shot out and like one of his ears and like, some crazy shit.

[666] And so it was a real awkward Thanksgiving in that year.

[667] You'd think.

[668] So during the argument four months earlier, and he had taken the fuck off.

[669] As a teen, he had been caught peeking in windows to watch girls shower and undress.

[670] It sounds like a lot, like similar to the Golden State Killer kind of the way it ramped up.

[671] He then had become a drifter.

[672] He had committed armed robberies in Alabama, Louisiana, and Georgia.

[673] Like he had been in prison and that sort of thing.

[674] But he wouldn't even be suspected.

[675] like, as the Gainesville Ripper until about three months later.

[676] So for three fucking months, everyone is, so when this dude that they arrested, the mentally ill guy who's in prison now for like some other thing, the murder stopped.

[677] So they're like, we've got our guy.

[678] But so, but, but for three months, they hadn't for sure caught someone, you know?

[679] Which sounds, there was no link evidence linking this guy.

[680] Right.

[681] Like, except for that he lived in the apartment.

[682] Right.

[683] I mean, yeah.

[684] Yeah.

[685] Um, so three months later when after he's arrested, when the game, this rolling is arrested when the Gainesville murder task force, they start looking at inmates in central Florida jails, uh, prisoners who had been arrested after the last murder attributed to the Ripper.

[686] So I think they finally find out that this, this kid is not the culprit and they're like, let's, we need to do some fucking work right now.

[687] So they also do the, um, let's see.

[688] So in, in, in, they call all these different counties, including Shreveport, which is Rowling's hometown.

[689] And they request, Gainesville requests similar crimes like that sound the same.

[690] And they noted that the similarities to the five murders in Gainesville matched a triple homicide that had happened in Shreveport in November of 1989.

[691] Julie Grissom, she's a 24 -year -old girl, her nephew, Sean Grissom, who was eight.

[692] And Julie's father, Tom Grissom, who was 55, had been discovered stabbed death in Tom Grissom's home in November of 89.

[693] Julie's body had been mutilated, clean, and then posed in a really similar manner.

[694] Her hair had been, like, spread out.

[695] And it was just like a very similar horrific thing one that you don't forget.

[696] And when someone calls you and says, this is how the bodies were found, you fucking immediately are like, yeah, this happened here too.

[697] Yeah.

[698] So the task force in Gainesville re -examines every crime that had happened in the Gainesville area at the time of the Ripper murders, which I think is so cool, like anything, including a bank robbery.

[699] Oh.

[700] So they noted that on August 27, 1990, the day Hoyt was discovered, Danny Rowling's hobo camp had been found by police in a wooded area located near the apartment complex where some of the victims had lived.

[701] So in some, like, fucking light woods, there's this fucking drifter, sets up camp and has all his shit there and like the cops had seen him he ran they followed him and they found his campsite but he had gotten away so um the police had found at his campsite a bag of money with pink dye from the bank robbery so like when the fucking money the dye explodes and shit which is such a bummer right um all that money ruined i mean pink yuck like at least have a nice cool color so he had left everything behind they they fucking packed up his whole campsite and put it in storage, like, just in case they could find him at one point.

[702] But, like, without going through everything and seeing the connection between the Gainesville Rippers, unfortunately, but how would they have known?

[703] Right.

[704] So at this point, they pulled that fucking shit out of storage, right?

[705] They sent it out for testing.

[706] And so when Danny Rowling had gone into jail for the Winn -Dixie fucking thing, he had like a bum tooth.

[707] And so the dentist had yanked the tooth.

[708] They had kept the tooth.

[709] They got a fucking warrant for the fucking tooth to DNA test that motherfucking thing.

[710] Now, do you think that that jail dentist just had the tooth in his pocket?

[711] Or do you think it was like in a little test tube somewhere?

[712] I think he strings them all around his neck whenever he pulls a fucking tooth.

[713] I love that because it's like, it's your rotten tooth.

[714] No one's going to think to be like, I need that back.

[715] I want that.

[716] Yeah.

[717] And they got a warrant.

[718] Like they got a warrant.

[719] Still had, even though it was in their custody and happen at the jail, I would think that they wouldn't need a warrant for it because it was done there.

[720] Right.

[721] But no. Nope, they need a fucking warrant for it, which is so cool.

[722] We have a lot of protections, right?

[723] Not enough.

[724] So, da -da -da -da -da.

[725] Okay, so there's a DNA test and the results revealed, like, 1990, like, that's pretty new, right?

[726] Mm -hmm.

[727] The DNA is consistent with the killer left at the murder scene, and they're like, oh, shit, this is our dude.

[728] Also, a screwdriver that was in that storage unit had been found in his hobo camp, and it found 17 matches between the screwdriver and the primarks.

[729] at the murder scene.

[730] So he, even when the doors were locked, he was just able to pry them in, which I mean, sliding glass doors, you guys.

[731] Get those dowels that you put so you can't, you know, like the dowels that you put there.

[732] Like, let's just all do that, please.

[733] I'm so scared of them.

[734] They also do this fucking, this fucking idiot.

[735] So he's like, he has a guitar and he writes fucking, um, country songs.

[736] Danny Rowling?

[737] Uh -huh.

[738] And he records him.

[739] He's like a tape recorder.

[740] Oh.

[741] And he, I mean, you're saying they're good?

[742] They're Amy.

[743] No, they're like, I just hate this guy.

[744] He records like, he had recorded at the hobo camp, like messages to his parents.

[745] He basically is like the night that he goes to kill people.

[746] He's recording like a cryptic, like I have to do this thing.

[747] Don't hate me for this.

[748] And then also recorded all these country songs that he wrote.

[749] And they're just like so terrible and embarrassing and like horrible.

[750] horrible he just sucks so bad and then like I listen to a podcast and I'll like play one of the country songs with like horror music in the background and it's like you can't you still this is still a terrible song yeah it's not horror it's like right it's not scary it's horrible lots of people do this it's bad music he just fucking sucks it's not creepier because he's a fucking serial killer but it is crazy that he is making those choices to record himself like to basically make evidence against himself.

[751] Yeah.

[752] Well, okay, well, let's get to this stuff because it's the same thing with like when people, when like fucking John Wing -Gacy is like, I'm a painter, buy my shit.

[753] And it's like, well, it's not that good, but it's John Wayne Gacy, so you'll buy it.

[754] I think it's the same kind of thing.

[755] Or it's like, but I'm fucking Danny Rolling.

[756] So it's, you know, it's a serial killer's music because he wanted to be famous.

[757] All right.

[758] I wrote, he sucks so bad.

[759] He's charged with several counts of murder in November of 91.

[760] in 94, nearly four years after the murders, Rowling was finally brought to trial.

[761] He claimed that his motive was to become a, quote, superstar much in the same way as Ted Bundy.

[762] So he wanted to be famous.

[763] He wanted these, like, recordings to be, like, you know, studied and shit.

[764] He unexpectedly pleads guilty to all charges.

[765] And the reason he does that is because he doesn't want to see the crime scene photos at the trial.

[766] Oh, like he just doesn't want to go through it.

[767] Yeah.

[768] Okay.

[769] He's like, I can't even look at the crime.

[770] scene photos.

[771] Wow.

[772] Dude, you were there for it.

[773] You were there.

[774] Dude.

[775] You created these crime scene photos.

[776] He's diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder and borderline personality disorder.

[777] After his, not that anyone with these fucking conditions would do something like this.

[778] Just get that out of the way.

[779] And after his trial, he's sentenced to the death.

[780] He's sentenced to death for the murders in Gainesville.

[781] Good.

[782] Which was one of the things that if you plead guilty, it's more likely that you can be sentenced to murder, which is interesting.

[783] Sentence to death?

[784] Yes.

[785] Jesus Christ.

[786] What's happening?

[787] Wouldn't it be?

[788] Never mind.

[789] While in prison, okay, here's this fucked up shit.

[790] You ready for this?

[791] Well, in prison.

[792] It's been pretty fucked up already.

[793] Here's some more fucked up shit.

[794] Okay.

[795] Which I didn't know about before I studied this.

[796] While in prison, he approaches a controversial American true crime author named Sondra London.

[797] Have you heard of her?

[798] No. She is like a, she's a true crime author, like Anne Rule, but without scruples.

[799] So he tells her, he wants to tell his story through her eyes because he wanted to write a book about everything.

[800] And he needs her help with it.

[801] Okay.

[802] So they collaborate in writing a psychological memoir, which includes his rolling confessions to the five murders, along with other capital crimes for which he had not been charged.

[803] She just, like, wants everyone to know.

[804] everything because he's a fucking show off.

[805] And so Sandra London and fucking Rowling are sued by the state of Florida under the son of Sam Law, which means that you can't make money off your crimes.

[806] Right.

[807] Also, though, Danny Rowling and Sandra London fall in love and get engaged.

[808] Of course.

[809] Can I read, okay, about their first meeting in person, she says, I approached my meeting with Danny thinking I was prepared for anything.

[810] But there was one thing I was not prepared for her.

[811] I had no idea what a fine -looking man he is today.

[812] Instead of the broken and dejected loser I'd seen on TV, standing before my hungry eyes was one gorgeous hunk of a man. Oh, honey.

[813] Honey.

[814] Because also that's just bad writing.

[815] It's also bad writing.

[816] It's terrible.

[817] Yeah.

[818] Wow.

[819] She went on to write 50 shades of gray.

[820] Here's the thing about people that fall in love with serial killers.

[821] Especially Sarah girls who just, who've just told you everything they've ever done.

[822] Yeah.

[823] They're not even, like, lying that they didn't do it.

[824] No, you sit there.

[825] I mean, you've told me what he's done, and I'm not, look, I don't know what the pictures look like.

[826] I don't know anything.

[827] And there's a couple things I wish I didn't have had to have heard.

[828] The idea that she would then be like, I need to be with this person.

[829] There's something like that thing, I think it's like, you might be, lady, you might be confusing um like trauma stress shock like all those feelings are like i have butterflies and it's like no you're fucking scared for your life you're fucking idiot you're fight or flight response yeah you're basically kind of like you're trying to get get small and be like take pity on me and then he he does of like well i'm i like you little lady it's also the thing of like well i know him like he wanted to open up to me of all people and i'm special and she's like he's totally psychopath but like she says like psychopaths are like crystals where they have these multifaceted layers and it's not just one thing and blah blah blah blah blah it's like well the one thing that's really important is that he's a fucking murderer that's the top layer top one and don't go underneath that because it doesn't matter yeah i mean lots of people have lots of layers sure well okay okay almost done um on october 25th 2006 the florida state prison in stark I've just copied and paced this wrong.

[830] Danny Rowling was executed by lethal injection.

[831] At the time of his death, he was 52 years old.

[832] So it took a while.

[833] So this month, August, marks the 28th anniversary of the murders in Gainesville.

[834] And there's a 11, there's a 1 ,120 foot long retaining wall along Southwest 34th Street.

[835] And there is a tribute to the victims.

[836] It was first painted in, in 1990 with black, red, and white paint by Adam Byron Trit.

[837] So he thought it would just be this like temporary, you know, tribute to the victims that we, you know, that everyone could go and mourn at.

[838] But through the years, people have been regularly repainting it and touching it up.

[839] And so it's still fucking there for 28 years.

[840] Wow.

[841] And I saw photos of it.

[842] And it's just simple and sad and has their names really large.

[843] At the memorial's 20 -year anniversary, a plaque was placed below the graffiti memorial reading in memory of Sonia Larson, Christina Powell, Krista Hoyt, Tracy Paulus, Manuel Tobota.

[844] And that's the fucking Gainesville Ripper Murders.

[845] Oh, dude.

[846] Rough stuff.

[847] Yeah.

[848] Man. And you're right.

[849] It is like a horror movie.

[850] Because also Scream has like those kind of campy elements.

[851] This is like the Texas Chainsville massacre version of Scream.

[852] you know what I mean it's worse it's the worst it's the worst it's the worst of most of the stories we've done also just because it is that thing of the building fear in the city yeah and the bill where it's the how no one to be a police person yeah where you're at one crime going holy shit what I just saw and then they're like L .A. Mary 3 and 4 I'll just do the what I know the radio call signs are I'm from chips oh shit do it again L .A. Mary 3 and 4 that was their, those were their radio calls.

[853] 3, 4.

[854] What does that mean?

[855] I don't know.

[856] It was like, well, L .A. They were Los Angeles.

[857] And I don't, I think M. 3 and M4.

[858] Oh, sure.

[859] Oh, God, I got it.

[860] I don't know.

[861] Amazing.

[862] Ponce and John.

[863] I don't know what they, what they're, it just, that's what the lady said every time they had a call and then they had to go, you know, talk to somebody on the side of the highway.

[864] But my point is to be a person to be basically a homicide detective.

[865] It's not like there's a ton of them.

[866] Yeah.

[867] same ones have to go to all of them.

[868] And in five days, they've seen horrors that, like, most people never see.

[869] Totally.

[870] Especially when you go to a town like Gainesville where you're expecting it to be, like, drunken parties and, you know, brawls, they have to break up and domestic, you know, violence, which is horrible.

[871] But, like, shit that you know what to expect when you get there.

[872] Right.

[873] And then this kind of thing happens and you're helpless and you have, you know, you don't have suspects.

[874] You don't have, you have a million tips and you have to.

[875] followed all of them up and none of them are leading anywhere and it's just, I mean, got really lucky by catching him as quickly as they did and then putting the fucking pieces together because he absolutely would have kept killing people.

[876] Well, and I would just like to say, bravo to those game, they'll police officers because of reaching out to other, you know, it's that thing where a lot of the times the stories we tell is when they will not go outside of their area and everybody is clicky, where clearly this is the beginnings of that.

[877] that changing where they're like, we've got to do it and we've got to do that footwork to figure out.

[878] Is anything similar?

[879] And then what like, what other little crimes happened that day, like those days?

[880] Even a fucking stolen bike could have been like, you know, a getaway vehicle, whatever, you know, somebody was a really good investigator.

[881] Because also if this is a town, it's a college town and it's also a town that's listed in Money Magazine is like one of the nicest places to live, homicide is not common there.

[882] right so yeah and i wonder if they it was like they if they called the fbi in and there was like they did they did call the fbi in and i mean that they think they always do right but what's the with with like murder of this level what's the it's like a v shit i like took it out for some reason it's like uh their their database back then by cap yes they they checked by cap and i think that's another way they were to like pinpoint similar murders and that sort of thing right so yeah FBI was involved.

[883] So crazy.

[884] Yeah.

[885] I like the idea that there's FBI in every city.

[886] Yeah.

[887] I think that's really fascinating.

[888] We should go knock on some doors.

[889] For sure.

[890] I'm going to find the Burbank FBI.

[891] We should busk outside of the local FBI agency.

[892] Doa, do what are you doing?

[893] Yeah, you're arrested immediately.

[894] You guys are suspects in everything.

[895] They're like, We found that that apartment where you didn't pay rent that last month and then you just moved out.

[896] Did you do that?

[897] I think we may have done that.

[898] Only once and it was this, it was.

[899] Once is all it takes.

[900] Right.

[901] It was an apartment where it, I think after we left, I think the whole place got like shut down.

[902] It was truly like at a slant.

[903] It was really in a shitty part of San Francisco.

[904] It was bad.

[905] it was really bad and I think of there I remember them coming up just to tell us don't step out on the back porch it was that bad oh my god so it was not like we didn't have a ton of guilt then you were in the right I also put my hand through the front window one time when I was trying to open it and I was super drunk I was like four pitchers of beer oh my god and I was home and I was like I'm gonna open this one low and I couldn't pull it up straight it wasn't going up straight and I thought oh a bang no and I just it was really old obviously thin glass that I had never been replaced because I just, I went like once to kind of tap it.

[906] My entire hand went through the window.

[907] Did you cut yourself?

[908] I cannot remember.

[909] Don't you hate that?

[910] It's like, you were drunk and if you cut yourself, your friends are like, Karen's drunk.

[911] And it's like, no, this would have happened even if I were sober because his glass is shit.

[912] I mean, you can say that.

[913] Okay, fine.

[914] When do you put your hand through a window unless you're fucking so drunk that you're like, I'll sit care of it, everybody.

[915] I'll open the window.

[916] I'll open it right now.

[917] You on the street.

[918] You on the street, are you okay?

[919] Party.

[920] Come out to drunk Karen.

[921] You can't appear.

[922] Do you have any beers?

[923] I can't want to peevee.

[924] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[925] Absolutely.

[926] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[927] Exactly.

[928] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[929] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[930] That's right.

[931] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere, online, in store, on social media, and beyond.

[932] Give your point of sales system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[933] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

[934] So give your point of sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[935] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[936] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can't too.

[937] connect with customers in line and online do retail right with shopify sign up for a one dollar per month trial period at shopify .com slash murder important note that promo code is all lowercase go to shopify .com slash murder to the next level today that's shopify .com slash murder goodbye okay so we will we will downshift uh slightly here thank you jesus yeah this one is uh older less intense and has some interesting layers to it.

[938] Pre -1990?

[939] Yes.

[940] Okay.

[941] But I liked it because lately I haven't.

[942] There have been times, obviously, all my life, where I will sit there and watch, like, if it's, like, real detective, I just watch every single episode.

[943] And then sometimes I'll make notes and then later go back and be like, oh, that's a good case.

[944] Yeah.

[945] But lately I haven't, I think it's just, I think it's, the heat.

[946] I think it's like cultural, political stuff that's happening where I just want less of everything.

[947] And so when I go to do those things, the things that used to relieve my anxiety, they cause more.

[948] So now I've been watching things where it's like slow and easy and low key and like far away.

[949] So like the Japanese TV show that we watched last night together.

[950] Let's talk about it fucking hooray.

[951] Okay.

[952] You'll hear it.

[953] Georgia busted out a show last night.

[954] I had no idea.

[955] I had no idea.

[956] You didn't know.

[957] Let's, we'll talk about it.

[958] We'll save it.

[959] Okay.

[960] So anyway, I love that people constantly suggest cases to us.

[961] Like, have you covered this?

[962] Why haven't you covered this?

[963] And it's funny because I, you know, there's too many questions to answer on Twitter.

[964] But sometimes the answer is we did it in a live show.

[965] You just haven't heard it yet.

[966] Right.

[967] Or it hasn't been posted yet.

[968] Or we can't post it for whatever reason.

[969] Or like, like, for example, I read the research of Danny Rawling that Stephen put together for me when we went to floor.

[970] But when you're doing a live show and you have consistent, you have a 30 minute story of people going, uh, yeah, it's like, it's like not as fun for us.

[971] And that's in the not even just a live show, but in the actual recording too.

[972] Like it's really hard to do stories like what I just did or like the eyeball killer or like any kind of fucking child murder.

[973] I'm like, why don't you do this one?

[974] It's like, because we don't want to fucking talk about it.

[975] Yeah.

[976] And there's no way to do it.

[977] Like that was the cleanest I could have done it without talking about his fucking past and getting really descriptive about.

[978] about the mutilation.

[979] Yeah, we still, we still have to do it so that we walk away here and not bummed out.

[980] Yeah.

[981] You know, as much as anybody else.

[982] So, which is fine.

[983] This is like, it's a version of how to talk about true.

[984] Which is why we love when people are like, have you done this one?

[985] I have so many screen grabbed and saved that people having suggested things like, I've never fucking heard of that one before.

[986] Same.

[987] And I am always looking for, I just like the weirdness.

[988] So even like, especially lately, I've been like, has anyone ever been killed by a random cyclone?

[989] I'm doing stuff like that, where I'm like, you're making this way too hard for yourself.

[990] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[991] And then this one came up the other day because there was this article in the Washington Post a bunch of people sent to us.

[992] So I would like to thank listeners, Natalia and Amanda, and the first one, two have posted this article and say, hey, what about this?

[993] Have you ever heard of this theory?

[994] I love that you're giving fucking first person credit.

[995] This is great.

[996] First is like, come on.

[997] First is the best.

[998] First is first.

[999] Fruity Troll Roll got this to us.

[1000] first.

[1001] Of course.

[1002] Good old fruity troll roll.

[1003] FTR.

[1004] FTR.

[1005] I was like, can you please find, because I really want to give credit.

[1006] This is something that came to me. And sometimes I rely so heavily on those suggestions.

[1007] Amen.

[1008] And Fruity troll roll was like, hey, do you guys?

[1009] And I was like, thank you.

[1010] So this is the story.

[1011] Like, it's so excited.

[1012] Karen just one second in me. And now I'm like on the edge of my fucking couch.

[1013] I just want to double.

[1014] my article couch Check Wait uh -oh Karen has a pen in her mouth Which absolutely disgusts me Don't ever put your pen and pencils in your mouth people It's just germ city It's like licking a fucking doorknob Especially in this house You've seen my cat sit butthole first on a pen Karen God damn it Georgia That thing was in the mouth Also this I don't know I'm filling the silence When we could really just have Sue and cut it out That's right I like it's like I've somehow fallen and you have to cover.

[1015] And I'm covering with a couple glasses of wine that I've had.

[1016] And I'm just going to fill the time.

[1017] Elvis, how do you feel about it?

[1018] Great.

[1019] Thank you, pretty troll roll for sending the story of the lady of the Dunes.

[1020] Have you heard this one?

[1021] Oh, shit.

[1022] Yes, but I don't.

[1023] Yes.

[1024] Okay.

[1025] This is a cold case from 1974.

[1026] Oh, I know.

[1027] Yes.

[1028] Do you know?

[1029] Yes.

[1030] And did you read this article?

[1031] Yeah, but I was like, I've heard this before.

[1032] Like, I didn't, like, pay attention to it.

[1033] Okay.

[1034] So great.

[1035] So this was just in the Washington Post, and, um, which is why it's kind of come back around.

[1036] And in this article and, sorry, it was, um, the article was written by a guy named Isaac Stanley Becker for the Washington Post.

[1037] And it's really, it's, it's, it's so fascinating and it's cool and it's about somebody, but then it's also about this cold case.

[1038] And, um, and there's a movie involved, which of course, you know I love.

[1039] So it was all very interesting, but, uh, it's very pop culture.

[1040] it is and kind of timely it crosses lots of interest lines or makes a lot of connections but also there's a book written by a writer named deborra halber she wrote it in 2014 called the skeleton crew which is about online sleuths solving crimes fucking fun and so they refer to this cold case as the holy grail of a case to be solved.

[1041] So I think that's why it comes up a lot.

[1042] And I also think it comes up a lot because the police in this area, Provincetown, Massachusetts, kind of haven't let it go.

[1043] They just keep, they just keep bringing it back to the news.

[1044] Like, it seems like every 10 years.

[1045] It's like the one that they really want to solve and can't.

[1046] But it's also got a really cool name.

[1047] That's like creepy.

[1048] The Lady in the Dune.

[1049] That's like so, it's like the Talmad Shood kind of case where it's like that sounds, what is that?

[1050] It's intriguing.

[1051] That's right.

[1052] Also, I just said the lady, in the dunes, which is what I wrote in this document.

[1053] It's the lady of the dunes.

[1054] I keep saying as if it's the lady in the water, the M. Knight -Shemalian film that I don't think that many people saw.

[1055] It's the lady of the dooms.

[1056] Okay, so essentially here's how it goes.

[1057] On Friday, July 26, 1974, a 13 -year -old girl is walking her beagle along the race point dunes in Provincetown, and her parents are there, they're visiting their friend who lives in one of what they called the artist studio or it was an artist studio they were called the dune shacks so they were these um these old shacks that basically people went and lived in and kind of refurbished and it was like because it was away from everything and like everything's like like like see salt worn and shit exactly i'm thinking of um the lost boys right now like you know like that kind of when they pull into town and shit that's Santa Cruz you know oh right yes Okay.

[1058] Well, then I'm thinking of the wrong city.

[1059] We're thinking of the wrong coast, but it's that feel because it's beachy, but it's very remote.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] And so she's walking her dog, right?

[1062] Because her parents are back, it's 1974, it's an artist shack.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] So, you know, she's like, bye, I'm going to walk around the dunes.

[1065] And when she gets to this basically a patch of pine trees, her dog smells something runs off.

[1066] Beagles.

[1067] They're good at that.

[1068] Those fucking beagles.

[1069] And she finds in a clearing the body of a woman is lying face down on a green beach blanket naked.

[1070] And the woman has been there long enough and she's in the state of decomposition that she's kind of a bluish green color.

[1071] So of course, the little girl runs back to her parents and they call the Park Ranger Station.

[1072] And head ranger Jim Hankins is the first person to arrive on the scene.

[1073] So he, Keith finds the body of this woman.

[1074] She's 5 '6.

[1075] She's somewhere between the ages of 20 and 49.

[1076] They can't really tell, though, because she has so much damage and decomposition around her face and head.

[1077] Oh, my God.

[1078] She has an athletic build.

[1079] She has long Auburn hair, and it's tied back in a ponytail with a gold -flecked hair band, and her toenails are painted pink.

[1080] And her hands are, they look like they're dug into the sand, to like she was doing a push -up.

[1081] Like trying to get up kind of, yeah.

[1082] But actually, when he looks closer, her hands have been removed.

[1083] Oh, my God.

[1084] Isn't it insane that someone could lay there that long without being detected?

[1085] They think it was between, it could have between, then between one to three weeks that she was lying next.

[1086] So that's kind of how remote this area is.

[1087] And at the time, what the park rangers were trying to figure out is, like, they knew who drove in and out of that park.

[1088] because you had to go by the park ranger station.

[1089] Sure.

[1090] And that's the old sign up here and we buy down your license and they know everything.

[1091] So they don't know who she is.

[1092] She didn't have a car.

[1093] They don't know how she got to such a remote location.

[1094] It's also so creepy that she's on a beach.

[1095] Like she's not, no one like tried to hide her.

[1096] It's like the place where she lasts.

[1097] It's almost like she lay down on this beach blanket and died.

[1098] Right.

[1099] But no. Yeah.

[1100] And because she's, so basically because she's naked.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] And there's no overt sign of assault or struggle.

[1103] They are thinking that she could have been, she was laying in this patch and it was, she went into the patch of trees so that nobody could see her from the beach.

[1104] Because this is like in the dunes area.

[1105] So it's away from the water.

[1106] And she went to basically not have tan lines.

[1107] So she's nude sunbathing, maybe falls asleep in the sun.

[1108] And that's when she gets hid in the head.

[1109] blunt force trauma cracks her skull, and that was the cause of death.

[1110] The angle, when they do the autopsy or figure out the angles, they realized the person who hit her was probably laying next to her.

[1111] What?

[1112] Yes, because that's the angle of the blow.

[1113] Hit her while they were laying next to her?

[1114] Right.

[1115] So either she knew the person, and that's why there's no struggle and she was asleep or just laying there calmly.

[1116] Sure.

[1117] or she was asleep and the person came and like laid down it's just like you can run 17 creepy scenarios she didn't jump up in fear in any way so yeah she either was asleep or she knew the person right is the theory right or wasn't threatened in some way by this person right and the in the reason that they are they're they don't believe and there's not evidence of a sexual assault because she's yes she's nude but her her um jeans are folded up underneath her head okay and so it got I've like laid out in that position in that scenario and that with a pillow right naked and her um the towel she's laying on is not disturbed right the sand around her is not disturbed which is very strange so strange um so all of that is you know that's that takes a while for them to put all that together but um basically Basically, once head ranger Jim Hankins basically sees what's on his, you know, what they have there, he calls police chief, Jimmy meets at home.

[1118] And so when the police further investigate, they find that she had dental work that they classified it as New York style.

[1119] Hmm.

[1120] Because it costs between $5 ,000 and $10 ,000.

[1121] At that time, what year was it again?

[1122] 74 that's crazy and she had seven gold crowns holy shit so there it's the idea that this is not a you know in their minds yeah it's not a runaway she hasn't been living on the street this is a person who's been taken care of who's had a good life or at least access to good dental care which means you're not probably not in a rural setting yeah or like yeah the best insurance or whatever it's just it's uh my god you know it's not someone who's like, I've been drug addict living off the street and I'm trying to sleep in the dune.

[1123] They're like, there's, this is something else.

[1124] Some of her teeth have been removed.

[1125] And they don't know when and they, you know.

[1126] Like not, they don't know if it's prior or.

[1127] Didn't specify.

[1128] But I mean, I think it was, I think it was, they believe in the act, like her teeth were removed.

[1129] Because later on, they suspect Whitey Boulder.

[1130] Bulger, they actually question him.

[1131] Okay, keep going.

[1132] This is, I'm so, I only know the basics of this and I'm so fucking deep into this and sad.

[1133] It's very cool, but also I will say this.

[1134] I, um, there's, I'm sure so much more online because so many people have done the internet work about this.

[1135] Right.

[1136] So if, if you want the deep dive to know all these details and I would highly recommend, um, that it, you know, first of all, this I already bought and started, Deborah Halber's book, The Skeleton Crew, and it's great.

[1137] I'm doing it immediately.

[1138] It's great.

[1139] But also, this is just, this is something that you know it's one of those things that if I right now went online and then saw where people are like, the Whitey Bulger theory is so immature or whatever, where I'm always like afterwards, I always go like, why don't I check Reddit first?

[1140] They know everything.

[1141] Reddit knows everything.

[1142] They know everything.

[1143] I know.

[1144] So, let me get back to my paragraph.

[1145] go ahead do it then i'm going to wait here and just talk until you find it they find two sets of footprints leading to her body is when jesus that's terrible that is it's what we do and then 50 yards away there's a set of tire tracks but all the um park rangers all the vehicles were accounted for yeah so uh that doesn't like that never helps anybody but what if it's one of the park rangers I mean, could be.

[1146] That's Reddit.

[1147] They're like, God damn it, Georgia.

[1148] They're like, we already fucking.

[1149] We did that already twice.

[1150] We did it in 1997.

[1151] Okay.

[1152] They think her body could have been there for up to three weeks.

[1153] But because they're at the dunes, so there's lots of insects, the decomposition makes, it makes it hard.

[1154] And she's laying in the sun.

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] She's laying in a patch where it's, and there's lots of grass around her.

[1157] Also, the picture.

[1158] A photo?

[1159] Mm -hmm.

[1160] There's pictures.

[1161] Actually, do you mind just clicking on that article so that I can show Georgia?

[1162] Look, I'm going to do it at some point tonight, whether it's when you guys are here or when you're gone and I can't sleep.

[1163] Stop confronting me about your pictures.

[1164] No, what I'm saying is, I'm a monster, just show it to me now.

[1165] Okay, but, but, but, um, don't look, but, but, um, don't look at it.

[1166] I should just not let me make Stephen look at this.

[1167] Uh, I want Stephen to sue us for traumatic stress at some point.

[1168] Um, no, it's a Washington Post article.

[1169] So essentially, her face and head are unidentifiable because of the wound, because of the decomposition.

[1170] Even though the head trauma, because her skull was cracked, that was determined to be the cause of death, she's also strangled so severely that she was almost decapitated.

[1171] Which was also a witty, boulder thing of, you know, garrotting people, I think.

[1172] I don't really know anything about witty bulger.

[1173] Jir.

[1174] Bold juror, I think.

[1175] Every time I say it, I think I should be saying the other one.

[1176] But whatever.

[1177] I don't know anything about it.

[1178] He's a hitman.

[1179] I know he's a hitman, but I didn't know like.

[1180] Oh, then you do know something about it.

[1181] Okay, hold on.

[1182] You got me back earlier.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] That sounded like a, did you feel the sting of it?

[1185] Third grader.

[1186] And it hurt.

[1187] And it really hurt.

[1188] It brought back to third grade.

[1189] I need to fucking write a new chapter for the book about that third grade.

[1190] Good.

[1191] That'll be for the, uh, that's bonus content.

[1192] Yeah.

[1193] Oh, I see it.

[1194] It's like a far away.

[1195] You can't really tell.

[1196] You can't really see, but you can like see that.

[1197] Oh, I see her foot.

[1198] I see that there's something.

[1199] Oh, poor baby.

[1200] The only clothes that were found there were a blue bandana and that pair of jeans that were folded under her head.

[1201] So she also had a hamburger and french fries in her stomach, which meant that she had been in town recently because she hadn't metabolized those yet.

[1202] So there's nowhere to get any of that stuff.

[1203] she was.

[1204] Um, so of course they begin searching and questioning as many people as they can and they look through missing person reports.

[1205] Um, and the list of vehicles that were in the entire area at the time, they're getting nothing back.

[1206] Um, uh, then when the police chief first sees the scene, the first person he thinks of is they had just had, um, uh, he had just prosecuted and sent to jail a serial killer named Tony Costa.

[1207] And for a second, he thinks this could be his work.

[1208] And then, but it would be impossible because Tony Costa had hung himself in jail two months before.

[1209] Whoa.

[1210] But it would be right, it had been right before.

[1211] Crazy.

[1212] Bummer.

[1213] There was another lead that they had, which I think is interesting.

[1214] It was an escaped female prisoner named Rory Kessinger, and who was around 25 at the time.

[1215] And she had disappeared.

[1216] And so they were like, maybe it's, why do we know more about this?

[1217] woman.

[1218] I know.

[1219] I mean, you can Google it.

[1220] I'm sure there's plenty to know.

[1221] And Reddit's like, we'll fucking tell you.

[1222] But when they went and took DNA from Kessinger's mother, obviously later on when DNA was modern and developed, it wasn't a match.

[1223] So then there's the Whitey Boulder theory because he removed his victim's teeth, so you couldn't identify them as easily.

[1224] And hands.

[1225] And hands.

[1226] So no fingerprints.

[1227] But I don't know if that was his thing.

[1228] he had also been seen with a woman resembling the victim around the same time that's where he was like located and shit yeah yeah he was uh i think he was boston everyone can now go watch the johnny debt movie um about him okay and then learn everything i don't like johnny death and i refuse to watch his movies i just don't like hit men i just don't i don't like men who hit no of any kind so the police question um him but they they can't ever link him to anything there's no evidence linking him except for the M .O. Then there's a serial killer named Haddon Clark, who I've never heard of.

[1229] He was also a paranoid schizophrenic, and he was in jail at the time.

[1230] He tells an inmate, quote, I could have given the cops her name because I killed her, but not after they beat the shit out of me. So he also told the other inmate that what the cops were looking for was buried in his grandfather's garden.

[1231] And then finally, he sent a letter to his friend from jail saying he killed a woman in Cape Cod and then he did drawings of a handless woman on her stomach, naked.

[1232] He did it.

[1233] And along with a map where her body was found.

[1234] He did it.

[1235] I think it's him.

[1236] He also led police where he claimed to have buried two women 20 years ago.

[1237] But none of these clues or leads or anything lead to actual evidence.

[1238] Who is he?

[1239] I want to know this.

[1240] Haddon Clark.

[1241] I've never heard of him and didn't have time to do a separate book report on him.

[1242] So that's for, that's a future thing for you.

[1243] Okay, great.

[1244] But basically, with all these leads, this case goes cold.

[1245] So the police end up over time exhuming her body twice.

[1246] So in 1980, basically the case goes cold for six years.

[1247] Then in 1980, authorities exhume her body so that they, can test it for more leads.

[1248] They're like, we have to do something.

[1249] Then they, they re -burry the body, but they keep the skull because they know that there's evidence there.

[1250] That maybe they just don't know it now.

[1251] Oh, that's so awful.

[1252] I know.

[1253] And eventually, the police chief, James Meads, he puts the skull on his desk and leaves it there.

[1254] What?

[1255] Because he says he vows to find the name of this woman that the lady of the Dunes will be identified before he retires.

[1256] So then again they exhumor her in 2000 to now because DNA developments and so they gather more DNA that, for testing that they didn't have in 1980.

[1257] In 2010, the forensic reconstruction of the Lady of the Dunes face appears in the Boston Globe.

[1258] And that's when Deborah Halber, the author of the skeleton crew, she sees it in the globe and and inspires her to write a book about all these unsolved cases that people are working on on the internet and that's that's basically what got her the full name of the book sorry is the skeleton grew how amateur sleuths are solving America's coldest cases amazing very cool um so so this is the modern layer okay that's fun and exciting and weird okay that made me go crazy okay um in 2015 there's a writer named Joe Hill and he's watching an episode of haunting evidence.

[1259] It was, uh, the episode was from 2006.

[1260] It was season one episode six.

[1261] He's watching it.

[1262] They, and they bring up the lady of the dunes.

[1263] Um, they show that reconstruct, the facial reconstruction of her.

[1264] And they show, and they describe the clothes, um, that were found with her, the jeans and the blue bandana.

[1265] That she wore around her head?

[1266] The blue bandana, yes.

[1267] Like a kerchief.

[1268] Exactly.

[1269] We call it a shmata and yet.

[1270] That's right.

[1271] So basically he watches that and is fascinated by it.

[1272] And then soon after, he goes to the 50th anniversary screening of Jaws.

[1273] It's his favorite movie.

[1274] And he takes his three sons to go see it.

[1275] And as they're watching, it's 50th.

[1276] 54 minutes and two seconds into the movie.

[1277] You know the part where they reopen the beach so everyone can go to the beach for the 4th of July?

[1278] So they have all these big crowd scenes of people going to the beach.

[1279] Wait, is that filmed in Kate Cod?

[1280] Yes.

[1281] That's filmed like right there.

[1282] It was filmed 100 miles.

[1283] It was filmed in two different beach locations, 100 miles from where her body was found.

[1284] Okay.

[1285] But basically in the same, you know, state general area.

[1286] Okay.

[1287] Okay.

[1288] But not right there.

[1289] Okay.

[1290] But nearby.

[1291] And when he's watching, he spots this woman in the crowd.

[1292] I've seen this.

[1293] Oh my God.

[1294] She has a blue schmata, her chief on her head.

[1295] Long, Auburn hair.

[1296] Long brown hair.

[1297] Loose white T -shirt, blue jeans.

[1298] She looks mid -20s.

[1299] Just like a random woman in the background.

[1300] Athletic build, probably five, six.

[1301] yeah um and when you see her the the woman in this picture's nose is a bit bigger than the one in the facial reconstruction it's creepy but it's he basically spotted it and then he talks about in this article thank you in the Boston in the Washington post article he talks about how there's no rewind when you're at the movie right there's no pausing at the movies so then he was just like freaking out and going could it be and he says he knows it's because he's a writer and he writes like ghost stories and creepy stories so he's like of course my brain wants to fill that in and wants to make that connection but what if what if what if and so then he goes home and so wait the Jaws and that scene everything was filmed like right before she got murder or like she was found that's right so they were filming Jaws in 1974 in that area if I knew more about Cape Cod I would be able to explain it but I kind of can't but it's basically the explanation is within a hundred miles.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] Which I realize is a lot of miles.

[1304] Except they had to get people.

[1305] So those crowd scenes, they had to get a shit fucking ton of people to show up.

[1306] Because it had to be the thing of, look at all these people here.

[1307] So it was hundreds and hundreds of extras.

[1308] Small town.

[1309] But that's also a typical outfit for the mid -70s, too.

[1310] Right.

[1311] And the hair and the, you know, it's not that out of, character for a woman to be wearing that at the beach.

[1312] No, no, no. But I think it's just him seeing.

[1313] It's basically the story that gets looped in his mind that is very, it's just like the kind of lead where you go, it's possible.

[1314] Yeah, yeah.

[1315] Is because if she, everybody knew that Spielberg was making a movie on a cape that summer.

[1316] Everyone nearby knew it.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] And everybody knew that they needed people for crowd scenes.

[1319] Like that was, they said that that was the thing that like went all around everywhere.

[1320] so so it wasn't like if it was like okay we live here but up in bakersfield they're making a movie sure and we might be able to be in it let's drive up there like and maybe let's hitchhike up there because it's 1970 fucking four and maybe I'm rich and I live in this town with my parents but I want to go up there and take my gold fillings up and fucking have a weekend well that makes sense and then it makes sense too if whoever she is her parents had passed away and she was just like on her own because someone would have connected her with a missing person by now.

[1321] You know what I mean?

[1322] Yes.

[1323] So that makes me think that like there weren't a lot of people who knew her or she had was escaping a fucking, you know, a mess and no one, uh, reported her missing because they didn't think she was.

[1324] They thought she just fucking skipped town.

[1325] Now this is making me think of the teacher's pet podcast, where, uh, a woman who had tons of family friends, a brother who was a cop.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] And the exact same fucking thing happened because it was back in the day and people kept going, I thought they were going to take care of it.

[1328] I thought the police were taking care of it.

[1329] And if you have one person giving a cover story, she's not here because she went to Europe.

[1330] Because she finally wants to be a painter.

[1331] She told us to say fuck you.

[1332] And everyone goes, oh, that's awful.

[1333] And then this is what actually ended up happening.

[1334] Yeah.

[1335] That's a good point.

[1336] I mean, it's just something.

[1337] But I think it's kind of an interesting thing of the that they shot that scene in July no of 1974 yeah and her body is found at the end of July of 1974 wait okay I don't think I realized it was that close yes and they've never been able to fucking find if this extra woman was like oh no that was me I'm alive what's up no because the casting director and I don't know if it's the casting director of Jaws or if they had hired an extras casting director yeah um could be a different person but whoever that person what would be that would have known any names or I guess I mean like how would you know you don't get names names you get release forms yeah I've been an extra and they give zero to none shit about you yeah but even that person died in 2009 so any they they can't figure out the way to trace hundreds of people that way dude hundreds of potentially locals yeah and it's like a thing that a ton of people did oh my god um but he still goes in and pulls the thing and talks about his theory and brings it to the police and they're like we've heard this theory yes you know like thank you and they're he said they're receptive but it didn't it didn't thrill them it wasn't something they hadn't heard before and and no link is found but here is the quote from joe hill in the washington post article that i liked two astonishing things happened on cake cod in the summer of 1974 one is that Steven Spielberg filmed Jaws and the others that someone murdered this woman in the dunes outside Provincetown and got away with it.

[1338] Anything that stirs people's memories could potentially be productive.

[1339] And this is still an unsolved cold case.

[1340] And Joe Hill now has a podcast called Inside Jaws.

[1341] And that's how this story I think got brought to light is because he loves that movie so much.

[1342] And then the thing I will say now at the very end, because in every article it's what they start with but joe hill is his pen name and he actually is stephen king's son oh my god yeah and that's the lady of the doones dude the cold case that everyone's still working on and uh shit hopefully we'll get solved someday soon stephen solve it that's banana I know, right?

[1343] Oh, my God.

[1344] I know.

[1345] What if you get solved soon?

[1346] Also, let's just, I love that movie, Jaws, so much.

[1347] Yeah, it's the best.

[1348] It's truly a perfect movie.

[1349] Yeah, it is.

[1350] It's a perfectly, perfectly done movie.

[1351] And the idea that it was Steven Spielberg's, like, basically, like, aside from Duel, it was his first big, like, blockbuster is crazy.

[1352] And now it could be possibly tied to a fucking cold case murder of the woman.

[1353] that's like, that's the creepiest thing I've ever.

[1354] That's, it's so, you know what it's like?

[1355] It's like the guy in the exorcist that was the X -ray technician that was a serial killer.

[1356] It's that thing.

[1357] I love that so much where there, some things, you know, it's not common at all that it's a movie, but there are things where like people get captured on film because, and back then, it did happen sometimes.

[1358] It's much more common today.

[1359] But like, back then it happened.

[1360] But it's also those weird backstories of like, in like, the Wizard of Oz.

[1361] you can see the legs of someone who hanged themselves from a tree or like, and three men and a baby.

[1362] You know that was a stork, right?

[1363] Yeah, I know.

[1364] That was, yeah.

[1365] And then the three men and a baby, you can see a ghost in the background from a person who killed themselves, which is like, none of it's true.

[1366] It's all explained away, but it just like adds this level of like, um, like lure, uh, this like lore to this, you know.

[1367] And it's just as fun, at least for me, obviously the way I just said that to you, because it clearly, it's the third grade episode.

[1368] but at least for smart people like me is that what you know at least for people that read half an article like me but it's just as fun to get caught up in the in the lore yeah and then debunk the lore yeah you get to be all the people you get to be the innocent because there's no answer and then yeah and then you get to read the article that says that was actually a cardboard cutout of a little boy that they hid behind the curtain thinking get rid of this and then everybody thinks it's a ghost yeah which is just as fun as there's a ghost to me totally because what if we're all wrong yeah and we and guess what we are cardboard cutouts are ghosts what if ghosts are cardboard cutouts what yeah every time it's just somebody floating a cardboard cutout it's a ghost with a cardboard cutout paranormal cardboard cutout experiences my new series someone please make the our new series someone I'm EP that's right we just think of an idea and I'm like well did you hear about my new series someone please of your idea.

[1369] Someone please make the fucking, like, logo up, like, on the, you know.

[1370] It's already done.

[1371] You don't have to finish the time.

[1372] I know.

[1373] It's Wednesday night and by tomorrow morning, it's done.

[1374] Again, thank you, Frutty Troll Roll for being a part of our lives.

[1375] Oh, that was, that was a wild ride.

[1376] I mean, I feel like this could have also been, it was a shorty for me, but this could have been 12 pages long with all of the players.

[1377] so much to learn and grow from in these who truly who is the next eight episodes are going to be based off of this story who is had in clark whitey bulger whitey bulger then also bulger is that like cracked wheat that they serve bulger whitey bulger bolger bolger like ray bulger who played the scarecrow in the wizard who could while away the hours we're going crazy sorry elvis he's pissed all right do you have a uh fucking hurry for this week Listen.

[1378] Hang in out.

[1379] Hang in out with you last night with cheese.

[1380] Oh.

[1381] You like hung out like normal people.

[1382] You started that with the same tone as I don't have one.

[1383] Forget it.

[1384] You just reached out to me and what if I broke your fucking finger?

[1385] You can't out of love.

[1386] I can't handle like sincerity so much that I can give you a compliment.

[1387] I have to break your fucking finger.

[1388] Talk about it more.

[1389] Talk about it last night more.

[1390] Okay.

[1391] So I text Karen and I was like, we have like we have so much fucking work to do.

[1392] There's another announcement coming in the next couple weeks.

[1393] We have so much work to do.

[1394] And it's big.

[1395] And it's like we have emails to answer.

[1396] It's more than we could just do over text.

[1397] Like, do you want to come over?

[1398] And then I also wrote, or do you just want to come over and watch the new Golden State Killer documentary and get an I'll drink?

[1399] Because that's no, we're not complaining, obviously.

[1400] So much gratitude to the Lord and Jesus and Yahweh.

[1401] Tripping upwards during a montage is our life right now.

[1402] But to the point where we can't watch the Golden State Killer, the new.

[1403] new episode, Paul Holes Central.

[1404] Centric.

[1405] Because we're that busy.

[1406] That's, just to give you scope and space.

[1407] So feel bad for us.

[1408] We don't even have children.

[1409] Okay.

[1410] So I was like, let's do all this work being like a boring fucking matronly like, we have to work.

[1411] Or just fucking come over and let's hang out.

[1412] Vince went, was that another, oh, Vince was at a baseball game last night again.

[1413] And he text me, he posted about it on Instagram and then was like, why do your fans keep asking me if I have a hot dog in my pocket for you.

[1414] I was like, I'll explain when you go home.

[1415] In person in real life?

[1416] What do you mean?

[1417] No, no. On his photo that he posted, they were like, did you put a hot dog in your pocket for Georgia?

[1418] He's like, what the fuck are?

[1419] Because he doesn't listen and I don't tell him.

[1420] And then I was like, I swear, it sounds sexual, but it was not a sexual joke.

[1421] It's not even a joke really.

[1422] I mean, just talking.

[1423] So much talking.

[1424] So Karen fucking booked it to Gelson's and like got a charcuterine cheese spread that was like next level and just kept pulling shit out of the bag and oh i have a photo i'll post the i'll give steam in the photo to post on the new uh on instagram what was there uh was there pear gel spread yes there was there fig spread was there grapes fresh fucking grapes were there parmesan crisps oh those were incredible yeah we and we just sat and like we watched 20 minutes of the golden state killer documentary what's it called wonderful it's really good golden state killer next steps with paul holes is that what it is that what it is Here's the thing.

[1425] Maybe the reason we couldn't watch it, we couldn't continue watching it, is because they showed two early photos of Paul holes.

[1426] And I was like, oh, whoa, whoa, I need a, I need a warning before you show me 90s Paul holes.

[1427] So it was Golden State Killer main suspect on oxygen.

[1428] It's great.

[1429] I can't wait to finish it.

[1430] We didn't finish it.

[1431] It's really great, yeah.

[1432] Because we were just talking and talking.

[1433] And then I, and then I remembered something.

[1434] My friend Crystal Lang and Moose is like, fucking amazing girl.

[1435] I'm just a big fan of hers.

[1436] She, um, she had told me the other night before about some Japanese.

[1437] It was like, it's a Japanese version of, um, the real world.

[1438] The real world, but everyone's so polite to each other and there's no drama.

[1439] And I was like, let's watch it.

[1440] So we started watching it and got four episodes in and suddenly it was like one o 'clock and Vince was home in the morning and Vince was home from the game with hot dogs in his pocket.

[1441] It's called, uh, terrace house.

[1442] And it's so the pace of it, everything about it is so soothing and so, so calming and also like at first we were like wait is this boring do we want to watch it and then suddenly i'm like next one next one and it's a little like problematic in the man versus woman and like they're exploring uh gender issues in japan and and like you know what you're supposed to be doing with your life by 20 fucking three or whatever yes but it's really subtle and really polite and there's a lot of food shots which i appreciate it's also really awkward because they clearly have nothing to talk about because nobody is scandalous like a couple a man and a woman went for a run and they were like you know that's the scandal yeah that they went for a run together but but still i find the most like the most magnetic fascinating thing that i want to watch in the world is the moment where two people who might like each other are trying to make small talk oh jesus even when even in this show where they were not being exploitive they were not being like dirty or raunchy at all never it's just that moment where like everyone else gets up and goes well we're going to bed because we're not just going to sit here watching the two of you try to make small talk around us and the producers are like leave them alone leave them alone but you can't but they won't leave them alone in like a closed room like no one is known together in any like compromising situations no you have to be alone with these really large sectional couches but and also there's always this thing you know someone like someone else or when they're not talking to each other someone has to do a weird arm stretch Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1443] Weird physical stretching while making small talk and, like, to fill silence.

[1444] Or show someone a photo on their phone, like, really close to their face.

[1445] Yeah, so you have to lean in.

[1446] Yeah.

[1447] It's awkward as fuck.

[1448] I love it.

[1449] That kind of shit, I'm like, well, does the baseball player like the model or the other girl?

[1450] But it was really fun watching with you.

[1451] You got to see the side of me that screams at the TV.

[1452] You laugh through half of it, half the shit I said, which I appreciate other stuff.

[1453] I was like, oh, stupid.

[1454] No, there was, we were, well, I have to say, sorry, but on both of those shows, we were riffing.

[1455] Oh.

[1456] But see, if we'd recorded it, it wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have worked.

[1457] We were crying, laughing at some points.

[1458] It was really fucking funny.

[1459] But also it was just like, we rarely get to just have fun and snacks.

[1460] Have fun.

[1461] And that was part of it is last night, it was the celebration of, um, the book announced.

[1462] It was like the celebration of like, we have actually hit a milestone of being done with and we finally got to tell people about it.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] And so it was really fun.

[1465] Thank you for making that.

[1466] You're fucking hooray.

[1467] Thanks for coming.

[1468] Mine is the show, The Tunnel.

[1469] Oh, the channel?

[1470] No. There's, I was going to do this, but I mean, that was mine too.

[1471] No, no. It doesn't have to be.

[1472] No, you get to have it all your arms.

[1473] No, it's okay if it's not.

[1474] I mean, whatever.

[1475] And now we're in a fight.

[1476] Now we're in seventh grade.

[1477] I was just going to say mine that had been written before.

[1478] It's fine.

[1479] I had nothing.

[1480] So.

[1481] It's just these two really good shows.

[1482] Okay, great.

[1483] And one of them is on, I think my DVR is recording it right now.

[1484] So let's fucking wrap this up.

[1485] It's the second season of Jessica Beale executive producing, The Sinner.

[1486] And I tell you, when I tell you.

[1487] So my friend Molly, who's East Coast, and so she watches things first and then lets me know if I should watch them, which is one of the greatest.

[1488] If you can set that up in your life.

[1489] Don't waste your time.

[1490] It's the best.

[1491] How your East Coast friend tell you.

[1492] And here's the, we all know that when you have first season like the first season of the sinner where I couldn't stop watching it.

[1493] And Jessica Cbeal was so good in it.

[1494] And she was nominated for an Emmy.

[1495] And God bless.

[1496] So exciting.

[1497] But now she's the EP.

[1498] And I love that they just like, it's the same show with the same detective.

[1499] But Jessica Beal, it's like a new story.

[1500] It's a new story.

[1501] And it's so, first of all, hooray for Bill Pullman.

[1502] He's had a 40 -year career.

[1503] He's so great.

[1504] Bless his heart.

[1505] So great to watch.

[1506] So real to watch.

[1507] But this story, because I was like, they can't do what they did last time.

[1508] What they did last time was so special and different and creepy and had me so uncomfortable.

[1509] From the second it starts, I don't know if it's the directing.

[1510] Whatever they're doing, it's so great.

[1511] So anyway.

[1512] Carrie Coons is there.

[1513] Whatever Carrie Coons is on a show, it's going to be weird and fucking creepy and like, and like slow moving in a beautiful fucking way.

[1514] And then she's there and you're just like, oh, is this a cult thing?

[1515] Yes.

[1516] And I love Carrie Coon.

[1517] She's so good.

[1518] When she shows up, it's going to get fun.

[1519] And again, a little, a creepy little kid is always, you have, take all my money.

[1520] A creepy little kid who looks younger than he is.

[1521] He's 13, but he looks like an eight -year -old.

[1522] Yes.

[1523] And it's like, oh, then you're, okay, whatever.

[1524] Yeah, it's great.

[1525] It's just great.

[1526] So please watch The Center.

[1527] And if you haven't seen season one, watch season one and then watch season two.

[1528] But also the Tunnel, which is this British show.

[1529] They just did the third and final season.

[1530] season.

[1531] And it has a French actress named Clementine Posey, I believe.

[1532] I hope that's her first name.

[1533] It's a great name.

[1534] It's not.

[1535] And then a British actor who I love so much named Stephen.

[1536] Stephen Ray Morris.

[1537] Stephen, will you please find Stephen Calhane, I think?

[1538] I mean, he's going to crack me. But anyway, there's three seasons.

[1539] They're all great.

[1540] Each one better than the last.

[1541] It's just real good.

[1542] It was on public TV here.

[1543] it's clement's posy and stephen delane so close so close so close that's like the time that i called dan white the man who murdered harvey milk in san francisco uh i called him dan brown who is the author of the da vinci go listen jack white and jack black i will never get those two fuckers straight i just can't i will i'm too dyslexic color i'm yeah all right great that's it um you guys will see you in yoga class this week i mean right thank you guys for listening and fucking supporting us and being so fucking cool and on our side and we can't wait for you read this book because you know yeah we're we're scared excited uh thanks for thanks stay says i thought i'd add i'm done stay sexy don't get murdered goodbye Why?

[1544] Elevice, you want a cookie?

[1545] What cookie?

[1546] Good boy.