Controlling Britney Spears

[0] From the New York Times, I'm not Michael Barbaro.

[1] He's on paternity leave.

[2] I'm Kevin Ruse.

[3] This is the Daily.

[4] A Los Angeles court may soon rule on whether Britney Spears should continue to live under a controversial legal arrangement that has given her father nearly total control of her life.

[5] Today, my colleague Liz Day on new details about how invasive that arrangement actually was.

[6] and why so few people knew the full story.

[7] It's Wednesday, September 29th.

[8] Liz, you've been our in -house, Britney Spears expert for a few years now, and you've done a ton of amazing reporting.

[9] And part of what I've learned from you is that Britney Spears, this very famous person that I grew up listening to, has actually sort of had a very mysterious period in her life.

[10] Like, we just didn't hear that much from her, except these occasional cryptic Instagram posts.

[11] But now it seems like we're starting to get some answers.

[12] Yeah, so it's been really hard to understand what's been going on behind the scenes with Britney Spears.

[13] On one level, she's one of the biggest celebrities on the planet and she's out there making millions of dollars, performing, selling perfumes, appearing on television.

[14] But at the same time, her life is very, very guarded because she's in something called a conservatorship.

[15] And just remind us what is a conservatorship and how did she end up in one?

[16] So a conservatorship is a unique, very extreme legal arrangement in which someone has their decision -making powers taken away from them.

[17] And instead, the court allows someone else, a conservator, to make most of your basic life decisions.

[18] for you.

[19] And back in 2008, Brittany had been going through some public struggles that were playing out, and there were concerns around her mental health or potential substance use, and her father applied for a conservatorship over her.

[20] And so she's been in that arrangement for now 13 years, and her father has been essentially in charge of her life since then?

[21] Yeah.

[22] And from the outside, the perception was that all was well and everything was okay.

[23] But there were a lot of rumors and speculation that Britney can't drive.

[24] Britney can't have a phone.

[25] Britney's very unhappy with the situation.

[26] But it was really hard to actually know that on the record and prove that.

[27] Britney herself didn't really ever talk about the conservatorship publicly.

[28] But a few months ago, my reporting partner, Samantha Stark, and I, were connected to someone who said he really knew what was going on behind the scenes.

[29] His name was Alex Vlasov.

[30] And who is Alex Vlasov?

[31] So Alex is a former employee at a company called Black Box Security.

[32] And they were the company that ran security for Brittany for the last 13 years of the conservatorship.

[33] So let's start.

[34] at the beginning.

[35] So when I got the job, I was super excited.

[36] It was honestly, it felt like an opportunity of a lifetime because there was potential.

[37] He was really excited by the opportunity to learn about the security industry.

[38] He eventually dropped out of college to stay on with the company and really just master the industry.

[39] And he started as the assistant of the founder, Adon, who was the main security guy for Brittany.

[40] I did everything from write his emails to be on all phone conversations in order to take notes for him.

[41] I was the only person at Black Box that knew everything, really.

[42] He started growing within the company and managing the security guards and just taking on more and more responsibility.

[43] And through that, he also started to get a really intimate glimpse into how the security apparatus worked in Brittany's life.

[44] and what is this firm like what services do they offer what kind of other clients do they have what's the deal with them so brittany is the only full -time client at black box at the time and alec says he knew nothing about what a conservatorship even was and the only stuff he knew about it came from adon we were told the conservatorship was there for her own good that it was there to protect her from from her losing money, that it was a way for her to have custody of her kids.

[45] And in some ways, what Alex observed felt normal and standard for security, for a celebrity.

[46] You know, security guards would accompany Brittany in public places and help keep the paparazzi away or help keep stalkers away.

[47] But slowly, he started to notice red flags and things that seemed really weird to him.

[48] I remember I asked Don, why is it that security is with her 24 -7?

[49] And he told me that security was part of the conservatorship.

[50] Why is it that Brittany can't really leave the house without security and without security alerting her father and various other people about where she was going?

[51] Around the same time as when one of the new agents that was working there was asking me, how is it okay that we're in charge of her medication?

[52] And he noticed that security would sometimes be in charge of giving her her medication.

[53] You know, I was like, what do you mean?

[54] He's like, well, we were given prepackaged envelopes.

[55] We have to hand them to her.

[56] And she can't leave.

[57] She has to take it there.

[58] And, you know, every time that was brought up or discussed, it was like, this is what security should be doing.

[59] because, you know, this is what the client is asking for, and this is what the client needs.

[60] Was the client asking for it, or...?

[61] The client is Jamie.

[62] And Alex started to realize that, you know, it didn't seem as if Brittany, the celebrity, was the client.

[63] But instead, the client was her father, Jamie, the conservator.

[64] And is that right?

[65] Like, is Jamie Spears the client in this case?

[66] Technically, yes, Jamie Spears is the client in this situation.

[67] Under the conservatorship, he is granted control of Britney's nearly $60 million fortune.

[68] And even though Britney is paying the bills for everyone in this situation, including $16 ,000 a month for Jamie, she's paying her lawyer, she's paying for Jamie's lawyers, she's paying for security, she's paying for all of these people.

[69] but her father is the one in control.

[70] So as the years went on, Alex became more alarmed with what he was seeing.

[71] Brittany wanted to get an iPhone.

[72] She saw her assistants have iPhones, dancers, team, Idan even, and she wanted an iPhone.

[73] And that was a big deal.

[74] Everybody was worried.

[75] And one day, Adon, approached him and said, you know, is there any monitoring service for an iPhone that you are aware of?

[76] And I'm like, what do you mean?

[77] He's like, well, parental controls.

[78] You know, is there, is there any way to put parental controls on an iPhone?

[79] And that's when Adon explained to me that Brittany's communication is monitored for her own, you know, security and protection.

[80] So Alex says that he at first asked Britney's phone is monitored.

[81] and Adon told him, yes.

[82] You know, these are basically parental controls that you would have for your minor child.

[83] I asked Adon about the legality of that, actually.

[84] Are you allowed to do that?

[85] And he said, yes.

[86] The court is aware of this.

[87] Brittany's lawyer is aware of this.

[88] This is for her safety.

[89] It's for her protection.

[90] So they would give Britney an iPhone in which an iCloud account would be on that phone, and they would then set up a mirrored iCloud account on an iPad that they had control of.

[91] And that would then allow them to mirror everything going on on Brittany's phone, you know, all of her photos, all of her videos, all of her text messages, her browser history, her notes on this iPad that they could then monitor.

[92] Wow.

[93] But they would also monitor conversations with her friends, with her mom, with her lawyer, Sam Ingham.

[94] If there's anybody that should be off limits, it should be Britney's lawyer.

[95] And, you know, I still felt that I'm not understanding something.

[96] So I think that was very shocking to us because, you know, even if there may have been, and we don't know, some, court approval to make sure nothing bad was happening to Brittany on her phone, it would be very shocking if that would apply to attorney -client privilege.

[97] Working at Black Box, I saw so much.

[98] I'm not a law expert, so I can't speak to the legality of everything, but ethically, it was just one big mess.

[99] And that wasn't even the most shocking thing that Alex said.

[100] What do you mean?

[101] Idon had a audio recording device put into Brittany's bedroom.

[102] So the other really shocking allegation that Alex made was that they had secretly recorded audio in Britney's bedroom.

[103] Idon and one of the agents working with him came into my office and handed me the audio recording device and a USB drive and asked me to wipe it.

[104] They seemed very nervous.

[105] and said that it was extremely sensitive, that nobody can ever know about this, and that's why I need to delete everything on it, so there's no record of it.

[106] So Alex said why, and they explained to him what it was and what they had done, and they said that no one could ever know about this.

[107] Wow, I mean, that sounds incredibly terrifying, and I know that she's in this conservator, which gives her father a lot of rights over her life.

[108] But still, is that legal?

[109] So that's a big question.

[110] Both mirroring text messages between two parties without consent and secretly recording people's conversations in a private place without their knowledge or consent could be a violation of the law.

[111] But what we don't know is whether the court was aware, of or had approved any of this.

[112] We know that nothing publicly available in the conservatorship case appeared to give them the powers to do this.

[113] But a lot of the court case is sealed.

[114] So it's always possible there was some secret authority given at some point or authority was given in a very narrow circumstance.

[115] And then it's also possible, no, they were just going rogue and this was nothing that the court had given authority over.

[116] And when we went for comment to Jamie Spears and the security company, specifically Jamie's response to us was that, you know, anything he did was within the authority that the court had given him and that they had the approval of either Brittany, her court -appointed lawyer, or the court.

[117] And how did Alex's time at Blackbox security end.

[118] When I was leaving Black Box, my filter went away.

[119] You know, I was very open about, I disagree how you run the business.

[120] I disagree how you are ethically.

[121] He's like, well, we should really talk about that.

[122] So over the years, Alex starts to get more and more uncomfortable with these red flags that he's noticing.

[123] And what he views is crossing ethical lines.

[124] And this call culminates in him becoming bolder and bolder with his comments to Adon about how he feels about things.

[125] He calls me into his office and, you know, he takes the gun and his holster with his clip out, you know, puts it on the table and starts with, so you don't like the way I run my business?

[126] I mean, it's not a threat, but it's a threat.

[127] Adon denies that the incident happened, but I think for Alex, it was a big part of why he stayed silent for so long and why it was so difficult to go public with this information.

[128] He felt really intimidated by how much power Adon had in the industry and also just what he had seen him be capable of.

[129] Got it.

[130] So that's sort of how Alex gets disillusioned with all of this.

[131] Do we know?

[132] at the time how much Brittany is actually aware of or how she felt about basically being spied on by her father?

[133] So we don't really know.

[134] And, you know, when Brittany appears in public, she's smiling and performing in Vegas, making millions of dollars and selling perfume and the brand is great.

[135] And then we'd see her on Instagram posting inspirational memes or dancing.

[136] And, you know, she never really commented on the conservatorship or said anything public about it.

[137] And then in spring 2021, something really unusual happens.

[138] Brittany's court -appointed lawyer tells the judge that Britney would like to address the court.

[139] And so the judge sets the date for June 23, 2021, in which Brittany will speak to the court.

[140] And there's a real chance that she's going to talk publicly about her conservatorship for the first time.

[141] We'll be right back.

[142] So, Liz, tell me about this moment in June when Brittany Spears finally broke her silence about her conservatorship.

[143] So June 23rd, 2021 hearing rolls around.

[144] And because of COVID, the court allows the public to listen in live to the hearing.

[145] So I was listening from my house, as were many, many people.

[146] And I was really nervous and excited.

[147] to hear what Brittany was going to say.

[148] And I believe you are on the telephone.

[149] Hi, good afternoon.

[150] Good afternoon.

[151] Thank you for coming in today.

[152] And the court hearing starts, and the judge says Brittany is ready to address the court.

[153] Ms. Spears, you know, I hear that you have something to say.

[154] And Britney says hello.

[155] And then she launches into this very passionate 20 -minute -minute -plus -long speech, breaking her silence in detail.

[156] about how she feels about the conservatorship.

[157] And it was very much so not the public narrative that had been presented.

[158] I'm not happy.

[159] I can't sleep.

[160] I'm so angry.

[161] It's insane.

[162] And I'm depressed.

[163] I cry every day.

[164] And the reason I'm telling you this is because I don't think how the state of California can have all this written in the court documents from the time I showed up and do absolutely nothing.

[165] Just higher with my money.

[166] She said that she felt the conservatorship had way too much control over her life and was really oppressive.

[167] I've been in shock.

[168] I am traumatized.

[169] You know, fake it till you make it.

[170] But now I'm telling you the truth, okay?

[171] I'm not happy.

[172] She brings up the point that she has made millions of dollars for other people under this conservatorship.

[173] I was basically directing most of the show, meaning I taught my dancers, my new choreography myself.

[174] I take everything I do very seriously.

[175] There's tons of video with me at rehearsals.

[176] I wasn't good.

[177] I was great.

[178] I led a room of 16 new dancers in rehearsals.

[179] I shouldn't be in a conservatorship if I can work and provide money and work for myself and pay other people.

[180] It makes no sense.

[181] Conservatorships are only supposed to be for people who can't, you know, feed, clothe, or shelter themselves.

[182] Yet, Brittany has been able to make millions of dollars actively performing.

[183] What state allows people to own another person's money and account and threaten them in saying, you can't spend your money unless you do what we want you to do and I'm paying them.

[184] What else did she say?

[185] I don't feel like I can live a full life.

[186] Well, she talked about how she couldn't drive alone with her boyfriend in her car under the conservatorship.

[187] And I'm not able to see my friends that live eight minutes away from me, which I find extremely strange.

[188] I feel like they're making me feel like I live in a rehab program.

[189] This is my home.

[190] She also describes some very private ways in which she felt the conservatorship controlled her life.

[191] I want to be able to get married and have a baby.

[192] I was told right now in the conservatorship, I'm not able to get married or have a baby.

[193] I have a ID inside of myself right now, so I don't get pregnant.

[194] I wanted to take the ID out so I could start trying to have another baby, but this so -called team won't let me go to the doctor to take it out because they don't want me to have children, any more children.

[195] So basically, this conservatorship is doing me way more harm than good.

[196] Brittany also mentioned that she wanted to have the right to pick her own lawyer.

[197] And the lawyer she'd had for the past 13 years was not someone who she had chosen.

[198] It was someone who the court had appointed for her.

[199] But I haven't really had the opportunity by my own self to actually handpick my own lawyer by myself.

[200] And I would like to be able to do that.

[201] And she said she didn't just want her father removed as conservator.

[202] Ma 'am, my dad and anyone involved in this conservatorship and my management who played a huge role in punishing at me when I said, no, ma 'am, they should be in jail.

[203] She wanted him in jail.

[204] I deserve to have the same rights as anybody does by having a child, a family, any of those things, and more so.

[205] And that's all I wanted to say to you.

[206] And thank you so much for letting me speak to you today.

[207] So after this hearing, where we finally hear how Brittany really feels about this conservatorship, what happens next?

[208] So you start to see major changes in the wake of Britney speaking in June.

[209] There's changes to her security firm.

[210] You start seeing Britney out and about more often, driving, things that, you know, she said she hadn't been allowed to do.

[211] But most notably, Brittany is able to hire her own lawyer for the first time, and this new lawyer is really aggressive towards removing Jamie.

[212] He files to remove Jamie almost immediately and says that he wants to depose him and do a full investigation into Jamie in the last 13 years of the conservatorship.

[213] And did that actually produce any changes?

[214] Yes, a lot of changes very quickly.

[215] At first, Jamie continues to say, I'm not going to step down.

[216] I've done nothing wrong.

[217] Brittany's lawyer fights back and keeps going after him.

[218] And this culminates in this real curveball that Jamie files on September 7th, in which he asked the court to consider terminating the conservatorship completely and ending it.

[219] Wow, that is a curveball.

[220] And what do you think explains that?

[221] So we don't know, but in court filings, Brittany's lawyer said that Jamie was probably doing this because he feels backed into a corner and wants to avoid being investigated.

[222] Hmm.

[223] So where do things stand today?

[224] So today there's a big hearing and the court is expected to decide two big things.

[225] The first is Britney's request to remove Jamie as conservator.

[226] And the second is Jamie's request for the judge to decide whether to terminate the conservatorship completely.

[227] And do we have any indication of how the judge might rule?

[228] That's a great question.

[229] I mean, people think that there's a good chance that Jamie could be removed today.

[230] But it's really unclear.

[231] Brittany's lawyer has used this argument that he's not in British.

[232] his best interest.

[233] And Jamie continues to maintain he's only ever acted in Britney's best interest.

[234] So I know that a lot of the details of this story are truly specific to Britney Spears.

[235] There just aren't that many mega celebrities who are in these kind of conservatorships.

[236] But there are a lot of other people in conservatorships.

[237] Does what's happening in Britney's case mean anything to those people?

[238] Well, before Brittany's case, not a lot of people knew anything about conservatorships.

[239] We don't even know how many of them there are in this country.

[240] It's estimated over a million.

[241] So in a way, Brittany's case has really taught a lot of people about what conservatorships are and really shed light on the extraordinary amount of power that a conservator gets over a conservatory.

[242] And just as importantly, just how little oversight there can sometimes be once a conservatorship is established.

[243] It's taken enormous amount of pressure and public attention for the courts to even seriously consider removing Jamie.

[244] So if all of this can happen to Britney Spears, what does that mean for someone who doesn't have those resources?

[245] or that fame.

[246] Liz, how do you feel about this story after having spent so many years looking into Brittany and her conservatorship?

[247] Like, what is your takeaway from all this?

[248] I guess one takeaway I do have that I think about a lot is just how long this has gone on.

[249] And it seems as if for a very long time people were willing to buy into this narrative.

[250] that doesn't make any sense, which is that someone could fit this standard but also be able to perform and make millions of dollars.

[251] Those two things cannot be true at the same time.

[252] But everyone was kind of willing to just believe it because you got to go to a good show and see your favorite celebrity out there smiling.

[253] And it was just much easier to believe that everything was okay.

[254] And I think the public is a lot more sympathetic now or empathetic to putting themselves in her shoes and, you know, believing her and or just wanting to see her succeed.

[255] Why do you think that is?

[256] Like, why is the public more sympathetic now?

[257] I think it was Brittany herself publicly speaking and kind of shattering the public narrative that all was well and her dad had saved her life and everything was great under the conservatorship.

[258] And she spoke in such detail and so passionately and said so many shocking things, it really woke up a lot of people.

[259] I think it's sometimes easy to overlook the fact that there's a human being with rights and with dignity and with respect at the center of all of this.

[260] And I think that gets lost in the spectacle and the legal jousting and the nuance of medical issues and just the nitty -gritty of it all.

[261] And I think it's just nice when that person is listened to.

[262] Liz, thank you.

[263] Thank you.

[264] We'll be right back.

[265] Here's what else you need to Notre Day.

[266] It is imperative that Congress addressed the debt limit.

[267] If not, our current estimate is that Treasury will likely exhaust its extraordinary measures by October 18th.

[268] On Tuesday, Treasury Secretary Janet Allen told law, that they have until October 18th to raise the federal debt limit, or else risk running out of money to pay the nation's bills.

[269] At that point, we expect Treasury would be left with very limited resources that would be depleted quickly.

[270] America would default for the first time in history.

[271] She warned that if the debt limit isn't raised, the U .S. could default on its debt, potentially triggering a financial crisis and an economic recession.

[272] Senators, the debt ceiling has been raised.

[273] raised or suspended 78 times since 1960, almost always on a bipartisan basis.

[274] My hope is that we can work together to do so again and to build a stronger American economy for future generations.

[275] Democrats have been racing to extend the limit before the deadline, but Senate Republicans have blocked those attempts and are trying to force Democrats to raise the limit on their own.

[276] And my task at that time was to de -escalate.

[277] My message again was consistent.

[278] Stay calm, steady, and de -escalate.

[279] We are not going to attack you.

[280] General Mark Millie, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate committee on Tuesday that there was nothing improper about his calls to Chinese military officials during the chaotic final days of the Trump administration.

[281] In the calls, which were reported in a report in a recent book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, General Millie reassured China that the United States had no plans to attack it.

[282] I know.

[283] I am certain that President Trump did not intend to attack the Chinese.

[284] And it is my directed responsibility.

[285] And it was my directed responsibility by the Secretary to convey that intent to the Chinese.

[286] And finally, a vaccine mandate for New York State health care workers that went into effect this week, appears to have convinced thousands of unvaccinated health care workers to get their shots.

[287] The mandate, which was announced back in August by then -governor Andrew Cuomo, required that all 650 ,000 of the state's hospital and nursing home employees receive at least one dose of a COVID -19 vaccine by Monday, or risk losing their jobs.

[288] By Tuesday, after the mandate had gone into effect, more than 92 % of the state's health care workers, had received a shot.

[289] Suggesting that President Biden's plans to mandate vaccines for health care workers nationwide is likely to have a similar effect.

[290] Today's episode was produced by Eric Kruppke, Robert Jimison, and Sidney Harper, with help from Jessica Chung and Michael Simon Johnson.

[291] It was edited by Mike Benoit and engineered by Chris Wood, original music by Dan Powell and Marian Lazzano.

[292] Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

[293] That's it for the Daily.

[294] I'm Kevin Ruse.

[295] See you tomorrow.