Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard XX
[0] Do you have any shot?
[1] Marks?
[2] Yeah, I do, I think.
[3] I mean, it's already like also puffy, you know?
[4] Oh my God.
[5] I'm having like weird like fomo.
[6] I know.
[7] We should talk about that.
[8] Even though it's like I hated that.
[9] I want to be puffy with you.
[10] Yeah.
[11] Okay.
[12] So, hello.
[13] Hi.
[14] I just got back from a fertility appointment.
[15] My brain is off.
[16] Which is also funny because I. I don't feel like it was as much last time, but I definitely feel like so loopy.
[17] You feel more loopy than last year?
[18] Yeah.
[19] At first I was trying to credit this to so many things.
[20] I was like, well, why does it feel so different this time?
[21] And why isn't it as it as it was fun?
[22] Obviously, that one's easy to answer because you're not doing it with me and we're not in camp.
[23] And I have to do like real life while doing this.
[24] Right.
[25] And we were not doing real life.
[26] And that's become very clear.
[27] because juggling all this real life stuff while you're shooting yourself up every night and having like hormones all over the place is harder.
[28] And I think we had so much adrenaline last time.
[29] I mean, I know I did.
[30] Yeah.
[31] That I don't think I felt it.
[32] We were like high on it a little bit.
[33] Do you think we were like a little high on each other?
[34] Yeah, probably.
[35] I mean, it was like a new friendship.
[36] and there was a purpose for it other than just the result of the eggs.
[37] We were doing a show.
[38] We were like setting of videos to do it.
[39] There was so many components to it that I think really helped distract.
[40] We kind of eventicized it.
[41] We did.
[42] We sure did.
[43] Making a podcast.
[44] Just a little bit.
[45] And it's a little bit like, you know how they say, actually we can talk about this later, but I watched the Golden Bachelor.
[46] Oh.
[47] And I have a rule about not watch the bachelor unless I'm in a relationship.
[48] And I'm not in relationship, but I'm choosing to still watch it.
[49] And it's so interesting to see these women in their 60s and 70s.
[50] Single women in the 60s living their best lives.
[51] So it's been really funny.
[52] But the reason why I'm bringing it up is that, you know, in The Bachelor, they build such intimate connection because they go to Paris or on roller coasters or in space.
[53] And I feel like that was our first friend date.
[54] It was like a month -long egg freezing.
[55] And so it's a little bit that where it was super exhilarating a lot of emotions.
[56] And I think that that maybe distracted us too from the bad parts of it.
[57] And everyone was gone.
[58] So we were really in a vacuum.
[59] Not everyone.
[60] Well, everyone in my world was gone.
[61] Right.
[62] And so it wasn't like, oh, I'm juggling.
[63] I need to go to this party.
[64] And then I also have work.
[65] You know, we're recording.
[66] Dax and Kristen were gone.
[67] A lot of my friends were gone at that time.
[68] So we could, just be.
[69] Now it's not that way.
[70] And I don't have that adrenaline.
[71] And I'm not giving you shot.
[72] So I don't have like a higher purpose.
[73] And I texted you a couple days ago once I started and I said, I have an apology to make.
[74] And I will do it on air.
[75] So I'm doing it now.
[76] Oh my God.
[77] I have an apology to make from our last freezing because I shamed you so much about how much you said it hurt.
[78] because you complained a lot about how much it hurt and you were like it's a 10 and I was like it's like a 0 .1 I didn't feel anything which is so interesting because it hurts the pain level is different this time because you're not giving me shots I don't know if it's not giving you shots I think it's literally the adrenaline I think I don't have that this time because I know what I'm doing there's not the anticipation and the craze around it and so I just know like oh, at this time, I'm going to do this thing.
[79] It doesn't have any mania attached, which is healthy.
[80] It's like a good thing.
[81] I think because of that, I am feeling it more.
[82] Wow.
[83] And I'm on more stuff.
[84] So perhaps that's also why.
[85] And I just left the doctor and you get transported back so quick.
[86] It's such a roller coaster.
[87] You get good news one day and then bad news the next day.
[88] And I do wish you could just not know anything until the end.
[89] and just get what you get.
[90] And like, that's it.
[91] But knowing, like, I have 14 or 15 follicles.
[92] That's amazing.
[93] That's so much more than last time.
[94] And then today, like, okay, 10 are responding.
[95] Okay, 10's still okay.
[96] But what about the other four or five?
[97] What's happening with them?
[98] And there's always just kind of this, like, you know, you just don't know.
[99] And then we're increasing a medication tonight.
[100] and I just do feel a bit demoralized and what am I doing?
[101] Why am I even doing this?
[102] This is so much and it's so much money and for what I don't even know.
[103] And doing it this way has actually been really, I think good for me to not have you as a partner there because today.
[104] Right.
[105] This could change and probably will.
[106] But today I feel like I don't want to do this alone.
[107] Because this sucks.
[108] Doing my shots by myself sucks.
[109] Going to the doctor and getting the bad news by myself sucks.
[110] I don't think I want to have kids by myself.
[111] I don't think I would necessarily know it unless I was doing all this by myself.
[112] It's a good practice run.
[113] And maybe I won't have to, who knows.
[114] But as of today in this very moment for me, I'm ruling that out.
[115] And that feels kind of heavy because, there's a big part of me that always felt like, well, I can do that by myself if I want.
[116] And I can, but I don't think I want to.
[117] But why is that heavy and not empowering?
[118] Well, it's heavy to know that if I don't pick a partner who I want to have kids with that, I'm not going to have them.
[119] That's a big deal.
[120] I mean, maybe this is happening so that you do open yourself up to the idea of finding a partner, right?
[121] or that it changes your perspective on who that partner is.
[122] We talked about this during Race of 35 when Esther Pearl came in, but you know, you're reinventing how to become pregnant and why aren't you reinventing the idea of family too and reimagining that that it's not this like, well, if it doesn't happen this way, then it can't happen.
[123] Instead of thinking about it that way, expanding the pie about what it can look like and how it could happen for you.
[124] And I think knowing that you don't want to do it alone is really, that's, I'm so happy for you that you know that, honestly.
[125] I know that you don't feel good right now knowing that and what it took for you to learn that about yourself, right?
[126] Like you're going through a hard time right now.
[127] But, you know, maybe that's why you're doing it this time so that you're setting up what it's meant to happen for you.
[128] Anything you do in life obviously teaches you about yourself and teaches you about what you really want and don't want and need.
[129] I hear you.
[130] It doesn't feel empowering or good.
[131] It feels like, okay, that option for me, I'm choosing to take that off the table.
[132] And I think that limits my possibility of having them.
[133] Again, I still don't even, I don't know, even with that option on the table, if I would have taken that path.
[134] I don't know.
[135] Is this about fear that you're not going to meet a partner?
[136] No, I'm not thinking at all about partnership right now, honestly, at all.
[137] It's, I don't want to have a partner just to have kids.
[138] I'm not going to do that.
[139] And what I'm now also realizing is I don't want to have kids without a partner.
[140] So I feel very limited.
[141] I don't know what is going to be in the future for me. But that's fine.
[142] No one knows.
[143] If you knew wouldn't that be a little boring anyways?
[144] Yeah, maybe.
[145] I don't know.
[146] I'm trying to make you feel better.
[147] because I love you and I don't like to see you sad, but I also relate completely.
[148] And I go through that roller coaster almost daily.
[149] Like even on a good day, I'll be like, everything's great and my life is the way it is, even though it's different than what I thought it would be.
[150] And I come up with all these things.
[151] And, you know, it's true, right?
[152] My life is so much better in many ways than I thought it could ever be.
[153] And part of it is because I don't have kids, right?
[154] Like, if I did have the picket fence and the family, the dog, I'm allergic.
[155] So I don't know, it would be something else, a little hamster, but that would be great, but I probably wouldn't be sitting here with you.
[156] And even I thought about that last summer when we were freezing our ex together, like, if I had been in a relationship, if I had been married, I wouldn't be able to just move to L .A. for like a month and go to camp with you.
[157] And I wouldn't have this amazing friendship in my life.
[158] And like, we've only been soulmates for like 18 months.
[159] Yeah, it's new.
[160] And I'm like, what more amazing things are going to happen because I, you know, you're in my life and that I get to be, you know, with you.
[161] But then, yeah, I still will be like reheating my little pat tie and be like, man, I'm 36.
[162] I'm never going to, you know, it's normal.
[163] It's normal.
[164] But it's important, again, like coming back to Gabor Matei on your show, that's a belief.
[165] For sure.
[166] Oh, my God.
[167] I could not the truth.
[168] I could not pass that test.
[169] I tried so many times.
[170] It's really hard to dissect beliefs and facts.
[171] Yeah.
[172] But that's at the root of everything.
[173] even.
[174] Yes.
[175] It's so basic.
[176] And when I hear it, I'm like, I know, but having to constantly, especially if you have these tendencies and honestly like mental health challenges, it's a daily practice to have to be like, nope, that's a belief.
[177] Or that's what my mom told me. Or that's what this boy told me in high school.
[178] That's not the truth.
[179] Exactly.
[180] And I have so much respect for women of our age.
[181] Like, and women, again, who are in their 60s and 70s going on the bachelor on live television to be like, I'm single and I would love to find love.
[182] And yeah, that is so brave.
[183] It's just a different story, right?
[184] And everything is a story anyways.
[185] Yeah.
[186] This happened last time, too, where this process forces you to think about things you don't normally have to think about.
[187] I am, for the most part, very happy in my life.
[188] And it's so full of amazing people, lots of support.
[189] great job, great, everything.
[190] I'm so lucky.
[191] And I actually have very few moments of feeling like, oh, but I want that.
[192] Like, it's not that common for me. But this process always puts me there.
[193] Right.
[194] And it makes me have to overanalyze a little bit.
[195] Okay, what do I really want?
[196] Do I want these kids?
[197] Okay, if I really want kids and I could do it by myself.
[198] Oh, no, I don't want to do it by myself.
[199] Oh, then I need a partner.
[200] Oh, do I even want a partner?
[201] I don't even know.
[202] You're just in that head.
[203] space.
[204] It's really nice to, yeah.
[205] To avoid it.
[206] But it's not, I think part of it for me is also, it's not avoid.
[207] It's really not avoiding it.
[208] It's, I have chosen to not make a romantic love connection a priority.
[209] And I'm okay with that.
[210] I know a lot of people aren't and that's fine.
[211] I do think some people would say like, oh, maybe you're just scared.
[212] And maybe, but also I think it's okay.
[213] I don't believe that to be a complete person or be a happy person, I need that.
[214] I really don't.
[215] And so the reason it starts coming into play is when kids become a question.
[216] Other than that, I just don't know if it's needed for me. That's great.
[217] How does that feel to you?
[218] It feels fine.
[219] I feel like it invites people to say to project what they think the reason is because they center romantic relationships in their lives.
[220] Yeah.
[221] Or like if I'm not doing that, I'm weird or something or off, but I just feel very content.
[222] Yeah.
[223] I think that's great because I have always put sometimes too much of a focus on romantic relationships.
[224] So I know that if I'm being really distant with someone who's great that I went on a date with or something like that, I know that like something else is going on and that maybe I am avoiding or that there's something, you know.
[225] But if you know, that's what makes you happy.
[226] And by the way, like, what you're saying is a real trend right now happening with a lot of women.
[227] And it's something that we're seeing, again, just in the data, right, that more single women have bought homes than single men.
[228] And a lot more of us are not having sex.
[229] Right.
[230] In general.
[231] In general.
[232] But women particularly, and Bell Hooks talked about this, there's a lot of sort of feminist theory around decentering men, particularly for, you know, heterosexual women.
[233] I kind of straddle both worlds where the model of marriage, currently, like what's on the table in this country, given the policies and where we're at and where most attitudes from what I see that my friends are on average dealing with, it is not a good deal.
[234] That makes me sad, though, right?
[235] And that's where I go.
[236] Like, maybe motherhood in 2023 is not going to work for me. And maybe if I'd been around 40 years from now in my fertility prime, and we had paid parental leave and women and men were equal and shared domestic tasks equally and we didn't discriminate against mothers in the workplace, all that stuff.
[237] Maybe that would be different.
[238] And that's where I go like everything everywhere all at once.
[239] There's a world where you have seven kids, right?
[240] You know what I mean?
[241] It's a multiverse.
[242] Yes.
[243] And there's a world where you're living the life you're living with you know.
[244] How wonderful that you love your life.
[245] Yeah, it is.
[246] But this whole episode is just who knows because when you're on all these drugs, you can't even be trusted.
[247] Well, we're documenting it.
[248] We're putting it in the vault to know that this is how you feel on this date and you might feel differently on another date.
[249] By the way, I'm sure there's parents we're listening.
[250] We're like, yeah, some days I'm super happy and some days I'm like, why did I do this?
[251] Everyone.
[252] I think everyone has that feeling regardless of your situation.
[253] No one's happy all the time.
[254] I once saw this interview with the cast of Mad Men and one of the actors is French, I think.
[255] He said Americans define happiness as a state.
[256] of achievement.
[257] You achieve happiness and then you have it.
[258] And he said, in France, I hope it's France.
[259] I could totally be wrong.
[260] It's not a state of achievement.
[261] It's a feeling that comes and goes.
[262] It's a transient feeling.
[263] And it's not expected to stay.
[264] And it's just changing that expectation.
[265] If you think life is about achieving happiness, you're going to be miserable.
[266] Because that's not a thing.
[267] It's a feeling.
[268] It's a feeling that comes and goes and is not permanent, it's temporary.
[269] I think it's just important to remember because I think that's a cause of a lot of depression.
[270] I'm not happy.
[271] I should be happy.
[272] No, you shouldn't.
[273] You shouldn't be happy all the time.
[274] That's not how humans are meant to be.
[275] Yeah.
[276] Literally last night I was really blue and you think in that moment or I do this where I'm like all the work I've been doing, it's all, nope, all the progress and you discounted because for a moment or for me it was just a few days.
[277] I don't know why I was just really physically.
[278] Like sometimes it's also like a physical feeling, right?
[279] And then you overthink it.
[280] You're like, why do I feel?
[281] It's like, no, you have a tummy You didn't sleep enough, right?
[282] Yeah.
[283] And we read into it.
[284] And to your point, we think that there's something really wrong when we're unhappy.
[285] And yeah, being comfortable.
[286] Or again, it comes back to, oh, my God, I'm going to keep coming back to this episode because it's so good.
[287] But with Gabor, Matei, who's like, sick with it.
[288] Oh, the bachelor.
[289] No, no, no. I didn't go that deep.
[290] Well, okay, so the Golden Bachelor, I don't go on Twitter anymore because I feel like I'm participating in, like, toxic masculinity or like, I don't know what.
[291] What's going on there?
[292] I don't want to call it X. Like, I'm over it.
[293] Right.
[294] I know.
[295] And I don't use the word toxic masculinity, but only with Elon Musk because I think it's just appropriate.
[296] But this is the first older generation that we're seeing dating on The Bachelor that, I don't know how old he is, but he must be in his 60s.
[297] And he's dating age appropriate women, which is so fascinating, right?
[298] Because the Bachelor couldn't replicate what happens in society, which is 60 -year -old men are dating 40 -year -old women or younger.
[299] And 60 -year -old women are dating like 9 -year -old men.
[300] This is, again, on average, but it's not really what we tend to see.
[301] And so it's been really, I really enjoyed watching it.
[302] And then I also, maybe people, everyone on Twitter is saying this, but he has a hearing aid.
[303] Okay.
[304] And some women on the show also have hearing aids.
[305] And I'm like, we have the first bachelor with a disability.
[306] Like, yeah.
[307] And I'm sure other people in the franchise had disabilities that maybe they didn't disclose or whatever.
[308] But you can see the hearing aid in some of the kissing scenes and stuff.
[309] And I was like, so.
[310] emotional.
[311] And at one point he's like, you know, oh, you have one too.
[312] And I think he calls it like something like, oh, you have a little toy too, you know.
[313] And I was like, this is going to help the stigma.
[314] Yeah.
[315] I know you were going through stuff last night.
[316] So I didn't want to be like, turn it on.
[317] But I do think it might be fun to watch it.
[318] Have you ever watched it?
[319] The Bachelor?
[320] Yeah.
[321] I love the Bachelor.
[322] I mean, I haven't watched it in a lot of seasons.
[323] But I love it.
[324] And I love watching it with people.
[325] That's the best way to watch it.
[326] So we could try to watch it together.
[327] That would be fun.
[328] Yeah.
[329] How many episodes in is it?
[330] I mean, when this plays.
[331] I think this might have been the first episode.
[332] Yeah, he was meeting the women.
[333] So, no, I bought Hulu.
[334] I bought like a $50 like live TV because I was like, I need to, my friends were going to a bar to watch it, but I had to finish work.
[335] There's a bar viewing of it.
[336] Yes, in Highland Park.
[337] Where at?
[338] The Greyhound.
[339] Cheesy grits or cheesy cats?
[340] Was that a mean ageist joke you just made.
[341] No, that's a bar.
[342] No, it's called Wolfies.
[343] I don't know why I made it, I made it cheesy.
[344] It's close to Greyhound.
[345] It is.
[346] I want to watch it.
[347] Now, are most of the women divorced?
[348] Some of them, again, I was watching it while I was working, so I was like not paying super close attention.
[349] A lot of them, yes, have been married before.
[350] I think some of them maybe their husbands died.
[351] But yeah, like a lot of remarried, yes.
[352] Are there any?
[353] That has never been a marriage.
[354] That's a really good question.
[355] I probably, again, I should have been paying closer attention if I knew I had been tested.
[356] I was getting tested.
[357] But maybe.
[358] I'm watching this.
[359] This is exciting.
[360] It is.
[361] It's really interesting.
[362] Oh, also Jimmy Kimmel's aunt or something comes on as a joke.
[363] Oh, my gosh.
[364] Like she's like, all right, it's your, you know.
[365] And chippy?
[366] Yeah, I don't know.
[367] I wasn't familiar with her, but yes, she shows up and women in their 60s and 70s are beautiful.
[368] But these women are, you know, have been selected.
[369] It's a superficial show.
[370] So these women are really beautiful and have been keeping up.
[371] Keeping it tight.
[372] Keeping it tight.
[373] I don't want to, you know, offend anybody.
[374] But yes, but he gave his first impression rose to, I think, not the woman that was the most, you know, sort of physically, physically and standardly attractive.
[375] He chose one that was, she, like, played him a song in the guitar.
[376] It's so sweet, you guys.
[377] I really didn't think I would be into it.
[378] And I just immediately was like, this is, because there was really a lot of social commentary behind it.
[379] Yes.
[380] It's important.
[381] And even a few years ago, I think a show like that wouldn't have been able to exist.
[382] But for me, again, it helps it normalize it for me of, well, I'm 36.
[383] I've never been married.
[384] But look at the, you know, that there's so many ways to be.
[385] I was talking to a friend recently.
[386] She is divorced, has two kids, sort of recently divorced.
[387] And her ex -husband is in a new relationship.
[388] And her and I were talking.
[389] And I said, are you guys?
[390] going to date?
[391] Are you interested in having another relationship?
[392] And she said, yes, I know I want that.
[393] I don't want to be alone.
[394] It's kind of like the opposite of sort of what I was saying earlier.
[395] She's like, I know I want that.
[396] I know I don't want to be alone.
[397] But I'm never getting married again or having more kids.
[398] Like, I also know that.
[399] I was like, oh, interesting.
[400] And then she said, well, never say never, of course.
[401] She was like, it depends on the person.
[402] But I'm not interested in another marriage.
[403] I'm interested in companionship.
[404] And having a person there to travel with and snuggle and watch TV with, but that's it.
[405] And I think that's really also so 20 -23 is like, you can pick and choose and piecemeal the things you want.
[406] It doesn't have to be like all or nothing or this package or this or this or this.
[407] It can be a lot of different things.
[408] And even the difference between companionship and marriage, that opens up a whole world for me of like, oh, wait, what's the difference?
[409] Even coming back to you, you know, this black and white, I either, you know, Stay single and I don't get a partner.
[410] I don't have kids or I do the whole thing.
[411] That's so 1950s, you know.
[412] This show is sponsored by Better Help.
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[414] Where do we even begin?
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[425] I needed like an expert.
[426] I mean, again, love friendships, love friends and love advice.
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[468] We left a cliffhanger last week.
[469] We did.
[470] But you know, I'm also.
[471] Okay.
[472] It's okay.
[473] Is it again?
[474] No, it's just that I do.
[475] We have time for questions.
[476] Okay.
[477] I just have therapy.
[478] Yes.
[479] You have therapy and we prioritize that here.
[480] We did.
[481] We did.
[482] leave a cliffhanger and I would love to revisit it if you're comfortable.
[483] Yeah.
[484] So last week you said, you've said it on here before, but you really kind of laid out that you're by and you were saying it in relation to a question that we had.
[485] It was a woman who hadn't had sex yet and I was telling my virginity story and you were like, I have a similar story and I'm just so curious about it.
[486] Yeah.
[487] Look, people will be, I'm sure, like, mad that I'm not handling this right or asking it right or I don't know.
[488] But I feel safe that you feel safe to tell me if I'm ever crossing a line or something.
[489] I also have another friend who you know who just came out a couple years ago.
[490] She fell in love with her friend.
[491] It was the first time she ever felt any romantic sexual feelings at all for women.
[492] And she was like very startled by this, right?
[493] Of like, oh, what is this feeling?
[494] Like, she had relationships with men.
[495] But you said you knew when you were really young.
[496] Yes.
[497] You can go ask me, whatever.
[498] AMA.
[499] AMA, because you do love having sex with men, right?
[500] Yeah.
[501] Okay.
[502] I mean, we can say that, right?
[503] Yeah, and based on our conversations we've had, you know that.
[504] Yeah.
[505] Now, is it that you like the emotional component with women more?
[506] Well, so weirdly, and this is actually kind of, of a problem for me. What's not a problem?
[507] It's just I prefer the physical, actually, of women and the emotional.
[508] I've never been in a long -term relationship with a woman.
[509] Right.
[510] And so that emotional, romantic desire for, I think, companionship and partnership, not that I'm not open, but I know that I lean towards men for that.
[511] You've known the people I've dated.
[512] Like, I lean towards prototypically masculine guys.
[513] But physically, I lean towards very, very feminine.
[514] women.
[515] But that's not what I look for in the relationship dynamics that I prefer.
[516] And maybe again, that will change.
[517] And I knew, honestly, it was, you know, I'm laughing about it now, but it was very hard.
[518] I'm sure.
[519] Yeah.
[520] It was the 90s.
[521] Again, I was a kid.
[522] And I remember being like, you know, when you find a pen, you put a penny in a fountain or whatever to make a wish.
[523] Like every wish, I went around like eight, nine, ten.
[524] Like it was like, please, make me not gay.
[525] You know, it's really sad when I think back at it.
[526] I can't point.
[527] Well, I do remember this was a little bit late.
[528] This is so funny.
[529] And I think it's important to share this because I do think it's funny when women share these things.
[530] Again, it was something that I felt like was maybe a thing, but it hadn't been confirmed.
[531] And then I was 12 or 13 and I was reading like 17 magazine or whatever.
[532] And then there was this ad with like Carmen Electra.
[533] And she was dating.
[534] Tommy Lee?
[535] No, Dennis Rodman?
[536] Oh, yeah, that's a thing.
[537] And so they're both in the ad, and we have to find this ad.
[538] Oh, my God.
[539] Because I remember seeing this ad, and he's kind of, like, you know, standing and doing this, like, manly pose.
[540] And she's kind of, like, sort of bent with hands on him.
[541] And I remember being, like, feeling.
[542] Attractual.
[543] Yes.
[544] And I was like, oh, my God.
[545] And I remember, like, really staring at her and not being able to, like, stop.
[546] Wow.
[547] And I realized, yes, now I know.
[548] And I'm not looking at Dennis Rodman in this scenario, right?
[549] And then when I also think back, this is very like millennial core.
[550] And if there are any listeners who want to share what their moments were, I love when actually women do share that.
[551] Or again, gay men or queer men sharing who their crush was.
[552] But I also remember realizing like, oh, I'm in love with Rachel and friends.
[553] Like I, Jennifer Aniston, and I loved the show and I loved watching it.
[554] But at a certain point, I was like, oh, no, I like, I have a crush on her, not on Ross or Joey or whatever.
[555] And yeah, it was all those little moments put together.
[556] And again, it was very repressed for me, and I did not talk about it to anybody.
[557] And I kept wanting it to go away.
[558] And then, yeah, I had like my longtime bully.
[559] I remember I was 14 or 15 at this point, and there was this girl in front of us that had like a tight pair of pants or something like that.
[560] And I guess I'd looked at her butt or something like that.
[561] And like, I'd glanced.
[562] And he was like, I saw you.
[563] I saw you.
[564] You looked at her.
[565] you looked at her butt and then like kind of drawing attention right but again this was you know we're kids and it's again a different time i mean homophobia is still rampant yeah but i remember in that moment being like no no no no no i didn't and denying it right or or working at a i worked at a bar and i remember once like my boss made this like again people don't realize you know he made this passing comment about oh yeah but she's a lesbian about this woman you know as a derogatory and i remember being like oh i could never tell him i can never tell people at work i could never tell, yeah, you hide and you pray to make it go away.
[566] Like, or not everybody, but that was, yeah, my experience.
[567] And then with time, it became like, oh, both of these things are true.
[568] Because I'm attracted to women, it doesn't mean I'm not attracted to men.
[569] But it took me a long time for those things to coexist together.
[570] And none of my friends would bring it up, by the way, which is also funny.
[571] I talked about this relationship I had when I was like 19 and it was with our group of friends.
[572] And like me and this friend, like, it was like clear that something was going on and no one ever said anything but I actually appreciate it right there was never a like what's going on or and at one point you know my friend mentioned he's like you know your friendship that you had with her like almost like how a parent would say you know I really have to commend like yeah my friends never and my family once I come out like everyone has been incredible and so sometimes I'm like why how did I internalize so much shame around it and how bad must it be for people who grew up in a household or with a friend group that is even more homophobic or actually inherently homophobic in a way that I was lucky not to have.
[573] The first attraction you remember was for a woman.
[574] Yeah.
[575] And then do you remember having the first attraction towards a man?
[576] Oh, but I was also boy crazy.
[577] So that's what also was confusing to me, right?
[578] So I, and this was definitely limerence or when I think back at when it started and how overwhelming it was, I look back.
[579] I look about.
[580] at it as like I think it was a coping mechanism of like creating fantasy right in my head and I couldn't sleep at night like it was that's when my insomnia started it was like I would obsess over this crush I've never told him vice a yet oh my god if you're listening shout out we follow each other on Instagram so maybe he will but yeah it's a big deal but I was obsessed with him right like a lot of girls were honestly um he probably knows it and I would obsess about him a lot and like wanting to be with him and I would create these.
[581] But they weren't, obviously, I was younger too.
[582] They weren't like sexual fantasies, but they were very like romantic fantasies.
[583] And so I did get to a point where I was like, do I just want validation from men?
[584] Is that, but then I'm actually gay, was also a few years of sort of reflecting on that.
[585] Yeah.
[586] And I also think that in my 20s, I was so disconnected from my body.
[587] I was so under patriarchal programming of sex and like not prioritizing my pleasure, not prioritizing my experience.
[588] And so sex wasn't that good with guys.
[589] And so in my 20s, like, even when I was dating men, I was like, I have a feeling that I'm just going to end up gay.
[590] I remember reading Portia de Rossi's book.
[591] And it's sort of about her realizing she's attracted to women.
[592] I was like, is that going to be my story, like when I'm in my 40s or 50s?
[593] But now that I'm in my 30s, I've unlearned a lot of those things.
[594] I know like I'm attracted to men.
[595] I like men and I like women.
[596] So it's been a journey.
[597] When did you tell your parents?
[598] I was very short while ago.
[599] Oh, really?
[600] Two or three years ago.
[601] Wow.
[602] Yeah, it was wild.
[603] And it happened because we were like on a little weekend getaway.
[604] I was like on a dating, you know, on Raya or whatever.
[605] And my sister was like, oh, I want to see what it's like.
[606] And so we're, I'm showing her my app.
[607] And she's like, oh, why are there women?
[608] And I went, oh, it's just like the way the app works.
[609] Like because it's, and I started lying.
[610] And I was like, I had this out of body where I was like, why am I lying to my best, like my best friend?
[611] Like my sister, I don't lie about anything.
[612] with her.
[613] She's the most accepting, and especially on this issue, would never, like, make me feel bad.
[614] And it was a few hours later, I was like, I need to tell my family.
[615] Like, this is, I am so close to these people.
[616] And why would I lie?
[617] Why would I, you know, and lie about myself?
[618] I actually made us all wear masks, like kid masks.
[619] You and your family?
[620] Yes, before I told them.
[621] Because it was, again, it's, I'm 30, you know, two or whatever at this time, but I'm still.
[622] still, like, so nervous.
[623] Of course.
[624] And, and again, it's wild.
[625] Like, the bravery of these kids who come out to their parents were homophobic when they're teenagers, like, it makes me just so, it makes me so emotional to think about the bravery because I was so shy that I brought these little masks, like these little arts and crafts masks that I brought to play with my knees.
[626] And I was like, okay, everyone wear a mask.
[627] And I'm going to wear one too, but I'm going to take mine off.
[628] Yeah.
[629] And I was like, this is me. You know, and I've been wearing a mask and I don't want to wear it anymore.
[630] And my parents were like, it was this beautiful moment, like everyone crying and like.
[631] That's so special.
[632] Yeah, it was.
[633] Did you feel so much lighter?
[634] I mean, how did you feel?
[635] Yeah, I felt good.
[636] You feel also exposed.
[637] Like, I also felt this responsibility to people who read my writing and are following me on social media, right?
[638] That I felt this responsibility, like, to be like to not.
[639] hide but then yeah like I posted and in the next day I wanted to work at Vox it all kind of sank in for me where I could just tell that everyone was looking at me and people would come up to me and be like oh hey like you know they're all everyone was amazing but it was like hey Liz like how you doing like I know this thing and so I felt very naked uh -huh I felt very naked and then there were a lot of also like you know people used it you know people will always use whatever, you know, you're vulnerable about, you know, against you on social media, particularly.
[640] Overall, though, it was really positive.
[641] And it felt like, again, just not having to upkeep.
[642] Like, secrets are so much work.
[643] Like that, you know, that dating app thing of like not thinking like, oh, I should think that girls are going to pop up and, you know, it's like whatever.
[644] Thank you for sharing that.
[645] I think it's really beautiful and brave.
[646] And I'm sure that story helped a ton of people.
[647] So, I mean, it helped me, like, so many, I cried reading the comments under that post.
[648] Like, I want to thank everybody for just making me feel totally loved and accepted, even though you're like, I should feel that way already.
[649] Have you, where are you on the scale, the Kinsey scale?
[650] I mean, I have so many intimate friendships with women.
[651] Yeah.
[652] I have a lot of intimate male friendships, too, actually.
[653] But I'm definitely not a person who's, who's grown up as like, I'm a guy's girl.
[654] Like, all my best friends are boys.
[655] Like, I never, my best friends have always been girls.
[656] But I've never felt physically attracted at all to any female in my life.
[657] I mean, there are people, like you say, Jennifer Aniston, or like there are people in the, in, like, on TV.
[658] Right.
[659] That I have girl crushes on.
[660] But I would say, I think the differentiation, maybe, I mean, maybe you have this.
[661] too, is when I watch friends and I see Rachel, I also am like, oh, my God, I'm obsessed with her.
[662] But for me, it's I want to be her.
[663] Right.
[664] I want her life, not I want to be with her, you know?
[665] Totally.
[666] But it's a fine line.
[667] I feel both, which is so confusing.
[668] Of course.
[669] Both.
[670] Yeah.
[671] And sometimes I probably shouldn't say this, but there are women who come up that I don't think I could date them because I would feel bad about myself being with them.
[672] because we're the I don't compare myself to a guy in the way that I would I think I would but again maybe I'm totally wrong but I've never heard anyone really talk about that and yeah it's not a thing but with same sex relationships like with someone who has like this crazy body that like and this thing that you really wish you could have like if they have it does it make you compare yourself to them just by being with them and particularly seeing them naked and being like oh my god they're body I don't know so have you had that experience so have you had that experience No, because I don't swipe right on those people.
[673] Like, there's literally women that I'm like, I couldn't.
[674] I mean, look, if Jennifer Aniston wants to go on a date.
[675] But is it because you feel like they're too good for you?
[676] Or is it that you feel like that you'll be jealous of them?
[677] I think it's probably a mix of both.
[678] Like, not even that I would be jealous.
[679] Maybe I'd be jealous.
[680] It's more that I would feel insecure about my body.
[681] Right.
[682] That I would feel so ugly.
[683] Body dysmorphia.
[684] Right.
[685] Right.
[686] But that I would become obsessive about my body to keep up or something like that with that.
[687] But you don't feel that in a heterosexual.
[688] Well, you don't feel that with a man. No. That's so interesting.
[689] Because I think a lot of people in heterosexual relationships feel that.
[690] A lot of women do of like I, if my partner or this person, I'm going on a date with this so hot, I either feel like bad about myself or not as hot or I need to keep up to match his hotness.
[691] so that he still likes me. I think that's common.
[692] That's interesting.
[693] It's interesting that it's not across the board that it's only for women with you.
[694] Because, yeah, I, you know, to me it's just two different bodies, but if it's a woman, it's literally the same, it's like the same body part.
[695] And you're like, oh my God, this body part is perfect.
[696] And this, my, mine in comparison.
[697] Wow, interesting.
[698] Isn't it funny?
[699] Especially like the most intimate parts.
[700] We have different parts.
[701] Well, as you learned, as you learned from our experiment, you don't always know what people's, what's happening under people's bodies.
[702] Yes, that's true.
[703] Under their shirts.
[704] Yes.
[705] Wait, what's our experiment?
[706] Well, we drew each other's bows.
[707] Oh, sorry.
[708] I was like, what did we do?
[709] Yes, that's exactly right.
[710] Because you thought that you knew.
[711] Well, you knew.
[712] So I did pretty good, but that's because I'm a good student.
[713] You are.
[714] You did actually.
[715] Yours was really bad of mine.
[716] It was really bad.
[717] I think I have the spatial disability.
[718] I actually did some Googling afterwards.
[719] Oh, God.
[720] Where I'm like, I have this.
[721] Why did that look like that?
[722] And then I love that you were such a great student that you didn't even do the drawing great.
[723] You also did a super zoom of just the boots.
[724] Yeah, you did two different angles.
[725] Well, I'm really bad at drawing, so I had to give options.
[726] It was great.
[727] It was great.
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[758] What if you fell in love with a woman?
[759] How would you feel?
[760] Sort of like the example of your friend.
[761] Yeah.
[762] I mean, I thought about it so much since our friend had this experience.
[763] I was sort of a big part.
[764] No, I was such a big part of it.
[765] I was the first person this person told.
[766] Wow.
[767] And she was so distraught for like a month.
[768] And I asked a few times, I was like, are you okay?
[769] What's going on?
[770] And she would say nothing.
[771] And at one point, she said, it is something, but I'm not ready to talk about it.
[772] And I was like, okay.
[773] Well, I'm always here if and when you are.
[774] And then at some point, she told me, she was like, I was with her friend.
[775] And I really wanted to grab her hand.
[776] This is like the sweetest thing.
[777] And of course, and this is like, I'm saying this as a warning to cis straight people who I think tend to do this.
[778] Me, I tend to do this.
[779] I'm starting to do this with you.
[780] Like I can feel myself, like, want to say, but how do you really know?
[781] Okay.
[782] You know?
[783] And I was kind of saying that to her.
[784] I was like, well, maybe you just felt a compulsion like to, I mean, she was.
[785] so distraught that it was so obvious that clearly it was more than that.
[786] And that she doesn't necessarily have the vocabulary or the words or anyone has the vocabulary or the words to say what the feeling is.
[787] We want such hard lines of like, no, tell me exactly what the feeling is so that I know what the feeling is so that I know, like for my own personal knowledge.
[788] But that's not how it works.
[789] Like people can't articulate.
[790] But yeah, she was like, I really wanted to hold her hand.
[791] And I said, well, I don't even know how I said it.
[792] Maybe you just wanted to touch her or like hug her or be close to her, but I don't think that necessarily means that you're gay because she was so upset.
[793] Of course.
[794] And so I did feel this need to try to fix it or something or tell her like, oh, no, you don't need to be upset because what you're feeling is probably not what you're feeling.
[795] Yeah.
[796] It's so stupid and bad.
[797] No, it's not.
[798] It's not.
[799] You're trying to soothe her, right?
[800] But it's a mistake.
[801] It's not accurate.
[802] I mean, you didn't go like, no, you're not.
[803] No, no, no. I definitely didn't.
[804] And I did say, I was like, how do you feel about if that's, if you are?
[805] Like, I think it was extra for her because she was like, I don't know what to do because this is a person in my life.
[806] So, you know, that was a whole thing.
[807] I don't know if she'd be mad if I said this, but I mean, they are together now and it's a very happy ending.
[808] It's like the best story ever.
[809] It's such a good, it's so happy.
[810] But yeah, I do think there's this, there's this need for people when they hear.
[811] hear it if they don't understand it to like try to figure it out so quickly and immediately.
[812] And I think it's on us to say to ourselves, you don't have to define it.
[813] It doesn't have to be so.
[814] Yes.
[815] And that's what helped me so much actually.
[816] And when I told my parents, I didn't even say I'm bi.
[817] I think I said I'm just queer.
[818] And like I guess now I've come around to just being like I guess, but even by like I don't identify in my head as that.
[819] I know that I have to say that to other people so that they can understand me. But it's not really an identity for me, it's just who I am and what I felt.
[820] And it's the best word for other people to understand me, but I don't even need a word.
[821] Yes.
[822] Like it just is.
[823] Yeah.
[824] You know, in the way that you, you know, being attracted to men, like, it's not your identity.
[825] You know, it's just like, oh, I just am.
[826] It's just how I feel.
[827] And it's a bodily thing, right?
[828] Like with my Carmen Electric example, where I was like, I didn't want to, I was like, what is going on in my body?
[829] Right.
[830] Why am I staring at this, you know, for so long?
[831] And, and, and, yeah, Yeah, it's scary.
[832] When you stare, is it like, I want, I want to be close to that?
[833] Like, what it's, well, with Carmen Electra, I can't.
[834] No, no, it's okay.
[835] I don't care.
[836] With Carmen Electra, it was not, I want to be in a relationship with you.
[837] And I want to, you know, be romantic.
[838] It was like, I want, like, I'm turned on.
[839] I'm physically attracted to Carlin Electrica.
[840] Right.
[841] Right.
[842] Which I had, like, pretty, I guess, like, pretty average taste for teenage boys at the time.
[843] Sure.
[844] Carmen Electra was kind of the.
[845] She's hot.
[846] Yeah.
[847] She was very Rachel, Geller, too.
[848] Yes, I have a type, I guess.
[849] And, again, I like when women share this, because I can relate to men sharing that they had like a Carmen Electra poster in their rooms and like, you know, growing up and that they, you know, really.
[850] And again, I know what that means, right?
[851] You're like staring at her.
[852] But yeah, did you have a question on Carmen, like, who was your?
[853] Yeah, Carmen Electra would be there.
[854] I mean, I had a Dennis Rodman poster on my wall too.
[855] Okay.
[856] She was such an embodiment of like, quote, femininity, but sex.
[857] Yes.
[858] She was very sexual.
[859] So hypersexualized.
[860] Yes.
[861] So, of course, a lot of young boys are going to be attracted to that.
[862] But I also wonder if a lot of young boys felt that they needed to be attracted to that.
[863] And maybe they weren't necessarily.
[864] But it's like, oh, but that's this embodiment of sex.
[865] Yes.
[866] So I should like that.
[867] Right.
[868] The pose in this ad, she was very overtly sexual.
[869] And I think that, honestly, what just came through was like, oh, I like boobs.
[870] Like, I like women's bodies.
[871] you know, and maybe it's not Carmen Elektra as much as, like, the way that she was, you know, made to pose and be in that that was so sexually charged.
[872] Right.
[873] That was this, it became undeniable for me in a way that maybe with watching friends, Rachel, and her cute little apron and like.
[874] You could have done what I did, which is like, oh, I just want to be her.
[875] She's awesome.
[876] Totally.
[877] And sometimes I do have trouble knowing the difference.
[878] Even when we first met, like, I loved you so.
[879] And I still do, obviously.
[880] those first few weeks, I felt like I was like falling in love with you.
[881] Oh my God.
[882] But I was, but not.
[883] We were.
[884] So that's true.
[885] That is tricky.
[886] And I think I talked about it to, I don't remember what friend.
[887] I think I did.
[888] I was like, I just like really, like, really love her.
[889] Like, and I was like, I hope it's not like a, because I didn't want to develop like feeling like romantic because I knew that that was going to, you know, I don't want that for anybody.
[890] I don't want that for you or for me. Right.
[891] So okay, but that is, okay, this gets, this is interesting.
[892] And this was my friend, right?
[893] Like, she ultimately, she had to tell her friend, which ended up working out great because the friend reciprocated the feeling.
[894] It's the best scenario.
[895] What a great scenario.
[896] But what would happen if you did and then you had, you told me and I would be so, I am so flattered, this is such a flattering, this is so flattering.
[897] I'm so, see, my internalized stuff, and I don't have this as much, but in my 20s, one of the reasons why I didn't want people to know is I didn't want my female friends to think that I was attracted.
[898] Like, I didn't want them to feel creeped out by me, which is really sad.
[899] That is so sad.
[900] And so even I feel nervous telling you, and I've never told you even though, like, I had many opportunities to, where I was like, oh, like, I don't want her to think, like, I don't want her to, again, this is so internal, you know, internalized, you know, homophobia of, like, I don't want her to ever think I'm, like, you know, lusting for her or like that I'm crossing a boundary, or like if we do have this amazing moment that I'm somehow romantically trying to get into her.
[901] And so that's the fear, you know.
[902] I understand that fear and it definitely, I feel like is old and comes from being young.
[903] Totally.
[904] And that feels.
[905] Yeah.
[906] And maybe some people would react badly.
[907] Oh my God.
[908] I think this for men is huge, by the way.
[909] Like gay men, again, for the longest time, gay men were in the military.
[910] And it's like the underlying idea there is that you'd be attracted to your fellow.
[911] Yeah.
[912] And you'll make.
[913] the straight person uncomfortable.
[914] Exactly.
[915] Yeah, it's so stupid.
[916] Yeah.
[917] So I think there's a lot of, you know, gay panic.
[918] Yes.
[919] I mean, because this can also happen in a heterosexual friendship, right?
[920] Totally.
[921] It has happened to me many times.
[922] Me too.
[923] Where I've liked a person and they're in my life and I either tell them or I just recognize that this is not going in that direction.
[924] And I just on my own, I'm like, okay, well, that's not coming to fruition, but that hasn't affected my relationship with any of these people.
[925] I mean, that's a testament to you because I've had it happen and I couldn't, it was, you know, I think it's hard.
[926] I think it's a testament to you.
[927] Well, I also, I think I have some practice in like, if I couldn't be friends with everyone I liked and they didn't like that, I wouldn't have any male friends.
[928] Is that a thing?
[929] You kind of fall in with your male friends?
[930] No, but I mean, when I was young.
[931] Oh, young.
[932] Okay, got it.
[933] Yeah, this is all what you're based in, right?
[934] Like when I was young, I felt like nobody liked me. And definitely the boys that I liked, they didn't.
[935] But I still liked those people.
[936] So I wanted to keep a relationship with them.
[937] So that's learned for me of just choosing to maintain a relationship even if they don't romantically like me back.
[938] Or even if it's not the relationship you would want.
[939] Yes, exactly.
[940] But I can adjust, I think.
[941] But over time, you learn how.
[942] But, okay, so anyway, I am extremely flattered.
[943] That's really nice.
[944] I think it would have been fine if you, if it had had, if it had, the feelings had come to fruition.
[945] I think you could have told me and I think we would have been fine.
[946] Yeah.
[947] I mean, I never had this urge to hold your hand, right?
[948] And even though I had like, I was like, oh, I'm upset.
[949] No, no. I'm kidding.
[950] I'm kidding.
[951] But I also think that, again, I was like, oh, my gosh, she's so pretty.
[952] She's so, like, I feel so.
[953] And I think what was happening to is we would spend time together and then I would go.
[954] And I've kind of talked about this, but not really like in the, where I would go on a date with a guy and I'd be like, I wish I was with Monica.
[955] Like, Monica is so much more interesting and funny and like I have so much more fun with her.
[956] And you're so pretty and attractive.
[957] And like, and I just was like, oh my God, this is so fun.
[958] And but yeah, I friend zoned it for myself and also, again, it wasn't our friend, right?
[959] I'm in pieces and I can't function when I'm around her.
[960] He couldn't not.
[961] Yes.
[962] Exactly.
[963] It was so overpowering in a way that was so undeniable that she had to say something.
[964] Right.
[965] Well, I feel kind of like bad that you were, I feel like I wish you had shared it.
[966] Okay.
[967] If you were, if it was like not struggling, obviously we're struggling, but if you were conflicted, you could have shared it.
[968] Thank you.
[969] I appreciate that.
[970] And I do feel flattered.
[971] And we now we don't have time.
[972] But we will do, we'll try to do one quickie.
[973] Okay.
[974] Let's do a quickie.
[975] Okay.
[976] But I think it was worth, it was worth that exploration.
[977] Yeah.
[978] Thanks for your questions.
[979] Thanks for being so open.
[980] And I won't say it.
[981] But I mean, I just, I do think in this day and age, it can be hard to ask people questions because there's a lot of fear that you yourself will get judged or canceled or people will be angry at you if you don't understand something, especially in like a woke sense.
[982] Yeah.
[983] you don't fully understand it or you have questions, people get mad at you.
[984] Yeah.
[985] They just want you to all, just like magically know stuff.
[986] Right.
[987] And that's not how life works.
[988] You learn stuff by asking questions.
[989] Yeah.
[990] And I stand by that in all regards for everyone.
[991] And so I'm grateful that you are a place where I can't ask questions.
[992] Yes.
[993] And it's because I heard people having these conversations that I was able to accept myself and to navigate those conversations too, right?
[994] Like, not everyone is where you're at.
[995] Exactly.
[996] Not everyone is where you're at.
[997] And I also think that the way that you're asking questions, you're not, you can tell, right?
[998] Particularly my friends with disabilities will say this where it's like, I can tell you're asking this for you.
[999] Right.
[1000] As opposed to trying to understand and learn more about me. That's 100 % the, you know, the conversation we've had.
[1001] I feel like you're just trying to understand me better.
[1002] And that's just beautiful.
[1003] And so thank you for your great questions.
[1004] I think about this a lot because there's a lot of anger out there and in social media and stuff.
[1005] There's a lot of people sticking in their heads.
[1006] They're sticking up for other marginalized groups.
[1007] And by the way, I think that's a beautiful thing.
[1008] Maybe it's not obvious, but I hope to do that for people.
[1009] I think I do.
[1010] but I also recognize because I am in a marginalized group.
[1011] I know that if I had just been angry at every single person my whole life who had done anything racist or held some racist ideas that I knew were problematic, but I had to accept a lot of that.
[1012] And I am better off for that.
[1013] I'm better off for seeing a whole person and not just rejecting like immediately, oh, they have this bad thought.
[1014] I'm, they're bad.
[1015] I can't be friends with them.
[1016] I don't want to know them anymore.
[1017] I wouldn't have anyone in my life.
[1018] And you have to understand that.
[1019] People aren't perfect.
[1020] They're just not.
[1021] And I'd rather have people in my life and also expose them to different races and different things and be a part of what changes their mind as opposed to just like, you're bad, bye.
[1022] Yeah, I love that.
[1023] Okay, let's do it real quickly.
[1024] These are really good, but they're they're intense.
[1025] Okay, let's do this one.
[1026] Can I cry at work and still be taken seriously?
[1027] and felt very triggered.
[1028] I started crying and could not stop until I left the room and let it run its course.
[1029] I'm planning on addressing the way this feedback was delivered, but the scenario brings up a point I've been mulling over a lot recently.
[1030] What place does crying have in a career?
[1031] I'm a highly sensitive person and I've learned through lots of therapy to embrace my emotional side.
[1032] It's what makes me good at what I do.
[1033] But sometimes I worry these emotions will prevent me from being taken seriously in my career.
[1034] I have ambitions of creating something of my own someday, but I worry that I won't be able to make it in a world that sees my crying, something feels like an inextricable part of me. It will hold me back from a professional world built without these emotions in mind.
[1035] Yeah.
[1036] It's tough because I want to say, of course, of course you can cry and cry all the time and it's fine.
[1037] But we also have to address the reality that people do want, oh God, I mean I can go into it.
[1038] Stability.
[1039] Crying does not mean you're unstable.
[1040] It actually means you are stable.
[1041] It means you're regulating your emotion appropriately.
[1042] The problem is the way the world sees it.
[1043] As a fellow HSP, highly censored person who's cried at work and I had a similar situation.
[1044] Mine was at a previous media company I worked at where I really, I think I had kind of a panic attack, right?
[1045] So I actually had to go into the corner of the room and stare like a kid because I couldn't stop.
[1046] I was very upset and visibly shaken.
[1047] And the person in the room ended up being like, do you, you know, are you okay?
[1048] And I was like, I need to take a minute because I don't want to have this conversation while I'm in the state, but I'll get back to you.
[1049] Right.
[1050] And that's my go -to, even in romantic relationships.
[1051] I know that I can get wrapped up and not even wrapped up.
[1052] I think if you're a highly sensitive person, like, you are no longer a person having an emotion.
[1053] The emotion is having you.
[1054] Like, you are engulfed.
[1055] And it's great to express it.
[1056] But expressing it in the right way is going to be an important hack for your life.
[1057] I think about the difference between, and I think about this with men and masculinity too, which is the difference between emotional expression and emotional responsibility.
[1058] You know, we tell people, express your emotions, yes, but also take responsibility for those emotions.
[1059] Yes.
[1060] And it seems like you are, right?
[1061] You're conscious, you're aware, you're not just like, you're not making your emotions other people's problems, right?
[1062] You're saying to yourself, I'm going to explain what I think was wrong when I'm not in that hot zone.
[1063] But maybe this is bad that I'm telling a woman this.
[1064] But yeah, I don't think it helps us to cry at work, and particularly in front of men.
[1065] I think that it's good to show that you're visibly upset and that you're going to cry.
[1066] But leave the room and say, I'm very upset right now by what's going on.
[1067] I'm going to need to take a minute.
[1068] And then I want us to talk about this at this time or at a later date so that you're not hiding, but you're still taking responsibility for the emotions that you're feeling.
[1069] I think that's great.
[1070] Yeah.
[1071] Remember you're not stuck in a situation and that you have, you always have, well, you might not, but you probably have two feet.
[1072] Some people don't, but that's okay.
[1073] But you can leave a situation.
[1074] This reminds me of the Rihanna thing I said you.
[1075] It's so funny.
[1076] We have to.
[1077] So hard to not get canceled.
[1078] I have to play it.
[1079] You have to.
[1080] I can't believe I missed it because I just saw it like two days ago and I was crying.
[1081] Because Rihanna is our She's our lady.
[1082] She's our Roman Empire.
[1083] She really is.
[1084] Okay, so I'm going to play it.
[1085] And he designed some boxer briefs that both men and women and non -binary people of all gender appropriations and the pronouns.
[1086] Everyone is included.
[1087] I don't want this to be boxers are for men the type situation.
[1088] And then we have to make a female baby.
[1089] Oh, my God.
[1090] Under appropriation is...
[1091] All the pronoun.
[1092] Like, she's trying so hard.
[1093] And I appreciate that.
[1094] I really do.
[1095] That she's just like, I'm trying.
[1096] I'm trying over here.
[1097] But gender appropriation is my favorite term.
[1098] Because we don't talk about gender appropriation.
[1099] I love her.
[1100] I felt like that a second ago, which is like an Al -Anon thing.
[1101] Like, you have two feet.
[1102] You can leave the room.
[1103] And it is reminding yourself that...
[1104] No matter what your level of ability is, you can...
[1105] leave the room in whatever fashion.
[1106] Yes.
[1107] And you can express, I think I need a second.
[1108] Can we come back?
[1109] Or let's reconvene or I'm going to need, I mean, it's really, again, it's asserting it.
[1110] And that is powerful.
[1111] You're not, again, crying and letting it all, you know, you're taking responsibility for it.
[1112] You're still showing that you're feeling an emotion and that whatever is happening is not okay with you and it's having an effect on you.
[1113] But you're actually being the bigger person by saying I need to, you know, you're not going to say this, but I need to self -regulate basically.
[1114] Yeah.
[1115] And then I'll come back.
[1116] And again, you're going to be in a better place to have that conversation anyways.
[1117] It's better for you, too.
[1118] And you don't have to say much.
[1119] They'll feel bad.
[1120] That's where things get tricky.
[1121] I think that's where the problem is a lot when women do cry at work.
[1122] Men feel so guilty and then they get mad at you.
[1123] Oh, interesting.
[1124] Internally.
[1125] Right.
[1126] Because they feel bad that they have upset you.
[1127] And you showed them that you were upset.
[1128] And so then their guilt trigger flares, I think.
[1129] And then I think, there can be some anger back out and then some projecting of like she's just so crazy or emotional or unstable when really they feel bad.
[1130] Exactly.
[1131] And that's why by being like, I am really upset right now and I'm going to go take care of that and I want us to have this conversation when I can be fully here.
[1132] You're being a boss because you're literally crying and still being in control.
[1133] I think that's really, really great advice.
[1134] Also, if you know.
[1135] know that there are certain people who are triggering for you and you know you're going into a meeting, maybe some expectation setting before you enter that meeting of this could go this way.
[1136] Let's be prepared for it.
[1137] Crying often happens, I think, when you're so caught off guard.
[1138] Yes.
[1139] So some of it is protecting yourself from being caught off guard.
[1140] But I love your advice.
[1141] I think it's perfect.
[1142] Well, we really did it.
[1143] We did it.
[1144] We hit all the points.
[1145] This was super fun as always.
[1146] I love chatting with you.
[1147] I love chatting with you.
[1148] It's so fun.
[1149] I love it.
[1150] I love these questions.
[1151] I love everyone's comments.
[1152] I'm excited already about the comments on this one because I feel like a lot of people will have a lot of things to share.
[1153] Yeah, I love it.
[1154] And we'll be back next week with more questions.
[1155] Bye.
[1156] Bye.