A Billionaire’s Guide To Healing Your Mind And Extending Your Life - Christian Angermayer

[0] But I do personally think it's the best thing I've ever done in my whole life, full stop.

[1] And I was like, look, you're clearly insane.

[2] Like, I've never drank alcohol, da, blah, and I'm not going to touch an illegal drug.

[3] But the biggest interference is death.

[4] It's not my, I don't choose the time.

[5] I don't choose like, and we need to change that.

[6] My guest today is a friend, but he's also most definitely the most interesting human being.

[7] ever encountered in my life.

[8] He's an entrepreneur.

[9] He's an investor.

[10] But he's also just a really nice guy.

[11] And he's invested in started companies in some of the most fascinating industries from psychedelics to space tech, to artificial intelligence, to cryptocurrencies, to fintech.

[12] You name it, he's in there.

[13] In fact, he's the single biggest investor slash driving force behind the whole psychedelics industry, which is currently trying to cure mental health disorders.

[14] this is undoubtedly the most interesting person I know and I think this is the type of podcast where you're going to demand a part two because we spoke for two hours and even I was left feeling that I was only scratching the surface and that I wanted to know more.

[15] The man I'm talking about is Christian Angamaya and I genuinely believe he's going to become if he isn't already one of Europe's most important investors and entrepreneurs in the same way that people praise Elon Musk for all the work he's done in the US I think he's Europe's answer to Elon Musk.

[16] Without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is the Dyer of a CEO.

[17] I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

[18] Christian, I know so much about you and the work you do.

[19] I know you're, you know, I've observed your behaviour in person over the last, you know, six, six to 12 months.

[20] Deeply, deeply, deeply fascinating.

[21] But the part of you that I know very, very little about is your, early years your upbringing your childhood cute child really i've been fascinated by i think it was a cute child i've only had slithers of that part of your life so could you tell me a little bit more about the childhood that made the man the main point i'm always making which i'm really literally happy about is that i was a very very happy child meaning i'm still a very happy person but i think the reason why i'm groundedly happy is because i had a great like how you say um childlike upbringing.

[22] Like I was growing up in a 90 people village.

[23] So.

[24] Bavaria.

[25] In Bavaria, I literally knew everybody.

[26] And there were a lot of other children.

[27] So I'm an only child.

[28] But like I had a lot of children sort of same age plus minus four years to grow up with.

[29] And we were literally like in the TV series.

[30] We were out all day.

[31] Like in summer, in winter, like it was very much like you would picture like, what is these American TV series where they might they on a farm or whatever.

[32] Like it was like that.

[33] like sort of um idyllic childhood yes really idyllic like yeah no crime like no risk like it was literally my mom sent me out in the morning uh in summer winter and i came back in the evening since i'm like five like i was because there was no risk for anything like um yeah so that was sort of the very very this was till i'm nine and then we moved to a town mini concert city town with like two thousand people so it's nearby like kilometer apart um So it was all very, very rural, very, which I liked.

[34] So I'm actually was thinking about if I have children or when I have children, then how to recreate that, which I think won't work.

[35] So, but like I think it's great to have nature, which is also, by the way, I mean, already jumping, but like, yeah, because you know that I do a lot in mental health work.

[36] Like one thing which is really healthy, very, very simple for your mental health is nature.

[37] Yeah.

[38] like there is even in japan they prescribe like a walk in the forest as a as a treatment for depression so anyway so i grew up in these super nice childhood like i always was funnily um very entrepreneurial yeah and nobody else is so not in my family not in this village like so that was always literally like with six my mom still has the so the first thing which i did when i learned writing was writing invoices.

[39] Like some tiny bills.

[40] Like I was it, oh, give me five, give me five cents for for salads.

[41] So I was actually had a very flourishing gardening business.

[42] So since I'm four, like five.

[43] How's it going?

[44] Sorry, wrong English terms.

[45] So I'm psychedelics.

[46] No, I stopped it later on when I was 12.

[47] But like, no, this is how I started my first business.

[48] But my mom still remembers that the first thing I did with my writing skills.

[49] was writing her an invoice for salad and everything and then I was literally like in a movie it's very stereotype but I was selling lemonade to neighbors then I was selling lollipops in school I was selling literally everything like I made a business out of everything so I remember when I went to my first cinema ever I think it was like seven then I was so fascinated that people are buying for something which is apparently also on TV they didn't get the difference.

[50] So then I then started charging my parents at home when they wanted to switch on the TV because I was pretending I was running a cinema.

[51] So, yeah, so literally everything I was doing I saw through the lens of a business.

[52] And when you look at your children.

[53] My parents were deeply worried in a nice way, but they were worried.

[54] They always tend to be with kids that are slightly different.

[55] Exactly.

[56] Yeah, so I look like them.

[57] So the discussion, if they maybe not, my parents was early off the table.

[58] Yeah, but like sort of from the way, how I see the world, and I'm very different.

[59] What were the factors, the sort of macro factors at play that were making you into this entrepreneur at that age, but also the entrepreneur you came to become.

[60] It was always there.

[61] Sometimes I think for myself, I think, because my parents were never around, they create this big sort of void of freedom and independence, which I thought made this connection in my mind that if I was going to get something, it came from my behavior.

[62] I'm thinking about those factors that, you know, freedom.

[63] you said, you know, I've heard you say that your parents were very keen for you just to be happy.

[64] Yeah, exactly.

[65] Like, they were always like, I can be whatever I want.

[66] So, but it was not that I don't, I don't know if that automatically leads to entrepreneurship.

[67] It could also have led to me to be an artist or whatever.

[68] Like, I don't think there is a connection between freedom.

[69] It's actually the freedom to be whatever you want.

[70] And then I think maybe you, maybe it's genetic.

[71] Maybe it's like, I don't know.

[72] Like, this is though the point meaning it was always there.

[73] There is not, there is not a moment.

[74] I can think of where I sort of changed, but it was literally since I can think, since I'm four, five, six, like very, very early, was always there to make a business out of everything in a nice way, hopefully.

[75] That coupled with some kind of innate curiosity, which is Peter Thiel said when he did a quote about you and sifted, he said that curiosity is one of your real sort of.

[76] Yeah, but anyway, I don't.

[77] I just thinking if that was that early visible.

[78] I loved school, which I think it was a very nervous.

[79] child as well.

[80] So I, yeah, I, I love, actually I did love school for an evening now more talking than later high school for the one reason.

[81] And even if I look back now, I really miss it a bit because it was the only time in life where you do something for the pure reason of learning something with no material sort of, meaning I turned that then also in a business because I started my, this was my first real business was when I started a tutoring business when I was 14.

[82] And then I...

[83] What was that business?

[84] Tell me. Tutoring, like giving sort of other kids.

[85] Yeah, because it was extremely good in school.

[86] So it was always the best one in my school, but it was practically always the best one in like the Bavaria, whatever, like top 10, yeah.

[87] And there was always, I like to explain stuff.

[88] So I think that still helps me now because it's part of fundraising to explain complex sort of things to people.

[89] Anyway, so I did like to.

[90] to explain stuff and I did like to, and I was good in the matter.

[91] So I started tutoring.

[92] Then there was this tiny thing, I think a bit that because the teachers very much liked me because I was always like the good child, like everybody who came to me automatically became a little bit better because teachers were treating these children more nicer because they were coming to me. So it became these sort of positive virtuous circle that more and more parents were like, oh God, we have to send our children to Christian because it.

[93] really works.

[94] And I think...

[95] And what were you doing for these kids?

[96] Well, tutoring, like how you...

[97] Teaching them, the same thing.

[98] The same thing, because they weren't...

[99] This was the ones who didn't perform well.

[100] How you call it in English?

[101] Tutoring, right?

[102] Yeah, yeah, teaching.

[103] And they were your peers.

[104] They were the same age.

[105] The same age or younger.

[106] No, all younger.

[107] Like, it was mainly like a little bit younger, like one or two years, but not a lot younger.

[108] So anyway, and then I was like, after half a year, I was so, like, full.

[109] Like, I think I worked like 10, 15 hours a week practically all the time.

[110] Like, it was tutoring.

[111] Like, and then I was like, how do I really scale it up?

[112] And it sounds not very, I don't know, very banal.

[113] Yeah, but for me, this was like the first time I really thought about business.

[114] Like in an entrepreneurial way, how do you scale it up?

[115] And practically, I realized I have the brand because parents want to send their children to me. So I was employing other pupils my same age or even a little bit older and said, you can teach under my brand and you get half of it and I get half of it.

[116] So 50 % margin.

[117] And I started employing and I continuously till my final grade had like 10 people, like always employed, yeah, who were tutoring other children.

[118] Yeah.

[119] So it was a very lucrative business, meaning for a child.

[120] Like, but like, crazy is.

[121] That's crazy.

[122] Yeah.

[123] And then so you get to 16, you get to 18.

[124] In that period of your life, I hear that in Bavaria, they have this like public service you've got to do for a year.

[125] I just was thinking like, how compliant do I have to be?

[126] Because then it's all, I think, is it called when it's out of times back like nobody can claw it back like because what happened is like I was always extremely libertarian and in we had back then it changed in Germany but we had back then like the Israelis have still you had to go to the military for a year and I think in generally this is wrong not because I'm against the military but I think you can employ people this is a job like people should want to be a soldier or should want to be something else but But I think as a government, meaning in general, you think the less government the better.

[127] So I was thinking, hopefully this comes across charming, but because I was thinking all the time how to avoid it.

[128] Unfortunately, I was not daring enough back then.

[129] There were tricks to do it.

[130] Like, you could have had said, you sort of mentally ill or whatever.

[131] Like, I was not brave enough to go on with that.

[132] So I decided to do, you could also opt to do civil servant.

[133] I saw it in the civil server, like go to a hospital or whatever.

[134] And I tried to be really nice.

[135] So I picked a job which I knew is it didn't really really require me. It was more like, okay, you had to put these children who didn't want to go to the military.

[136] You could say you're a pacifist.

[137] You had to put them somewhere.

[138] It was not that somebody was dependent on me. So I was sitting in that hospital and my only job was to bring stuff from A to B, like whatever.

[139] So then I made an, I remember that I made a, um, uh, how you say, a proposal that if we reorganize everything in the hospital, I could do my job in an hour and then go home.

[140] Yeah.

[141] So this was, I was 18.

[142] And then they were like, okay, this is crazy.

[143] Like it was not really, really popular.

[144] So, and then I made a decision that I'm not really going to show up anymore.

[145] And the only way to do that was to get always like doctors to give me like a letter and so now comes but the important point because like till that time i i was extremely like i loved learning so i was actually thinking i'm gonna if i would have gone and i think this is sometimes how crazy stuff happens and then it changes sort of the whole course of your whole life practically so i think if i would have gone from high school to university i i would have just been in that sort of mode, like, of learning being extremely good.

[146] So I guess I would have just went on with what I was doing, like meaning producing great academic outcome, so to say.

[147] So then came this one year, which I was completely bored.

[148] So I got these doctors writing me letters that didn't need to show up.

[149] But in return, I started managing money for them because I was already speculating on the stock market since I was like 15, 16, and I was not bad in it.

[150] So I became friends with all of these doctors, even in the hospital I was working.

[151] And they were all like, well, we help you if you help us.

[152] Because this was the early days of the, or not, you know, like this was 1998, 1999, like this was the stock market boom, whatever.

[153] So everybody wanted to be in it.

[154] So this was sort of my trade off for these letters.

[155] And so, and I can't be, I'm easily bored.

[156] So I always want to do something.

[157] So practically because, so I was not the type of person who was, okay, okay, I have a free year now and I'm going just partying.

[158] Like I was like, okay, have a free year now.

[159] I'm going to do more tutoring.

[160] Yeah.

[161] And I'm going to do managing money for these doctors.

[162] And sort of that completely switched my, how I say, course.

[163] Like, so I wasn't this.

[164] I actually wrote the book, yeah, and tried to sell that.

[165] This didn't work out.

[166] But I did a lot of entrepreneurial stuff just because I had time.

[167] Yeah.

[168] And then when I practically went to uni then a year later, I was sort of mentally not.

[169] anymore in that sort of learning world.

[170] I was in the okay I want to be an entrepreneur world and then I was this sort of when I met remet actually two guys who finally were my tutors in a scholarship I had had during high school already like for sounds awkward but for highly gifted children yeah so I was sort of in summer summer school I was at university this where I knew them from we remit kind of and they were telling me about this idea and it just sounded great.

[171] And they were like my tutors in terms of, I was like, okay, these guys are the pinnacle of biotech.

[172] And then I was the ones that, let's do a company together.

[173] And we did.

[174] And this worked out really well.

[175] And then I dropped out of uni.

[176] So I think this how was this sort of, I think without this one year in hospital or sort of one year in hospital, not in hospital, yeah, I would have stayed on a completely different path.

[177] I hear you talk a lot about you believe in like the serendipity of moments and spirituality.

[178] Which almost seems surprising because you're such a like a scientific led person.

[179] Whereas you do you do believe that things happen at the right time.

[180] Totally, totally.

[181] Actually, I'm actually very extreme with that.

[182] So I everything which has happening, literally everything.

[183] This conversation today.

[184] Well, this conversation happens because we planned it.

[185] Yeah.

[186] But like the fact, for example, that we met originally.

[187] Yeah.

[188] Yeah.

[189] mutual friend, whatever.

[190] So I'm always, everything which is happening to me, which I didn't actively say, hey, I need to have a meeting.

[191] I'm like, which is not in my usual rhythm, yeah.

[192] I always think, A, it's happening for a reason.

[193] And also it's happening for a good reason.

[194] Even bad stuff.

[195] I believe in this power of positive thinking, but like more like people always then say, ah, this means like if you wake up in the morning, you're, if you feel great, it's going to be a great day.

[196] I think it's more deeper.

[197] I believe in this book that there's this great book law of attraction.

[198] like whatever you sort of think and rather how you think not just the meaning sort of the essence what you think not like the detail partly but more the essence and if you expect sort of good stuff to happen you sort of attracting that yeah you think there's a do you think there's a spiritual force that attracts or do you think your intention moves you in that direction so look I'm very pragmatic meaning I mean first of all I dare to talk about this stuff because I'm very also scientific so I'm like look nobody will think I'm crazy yeah maybe a bit No, no, no, I'm joking.

[199] Like so, but the other thing is like, there are multiple explanations, and I don't really care about the explanation.

[200] You can have a very spiritual explanation.

[201] Yeah, it's the force of the universe, yeah.

[202] And then you can have a very pragmatic explanation that if you continuously expect positive stuff, then you look out for that stuff, and then it's more like a numbers game or like, yeah, but, and I don't care.

[203] Like, it works tremendously well for me since I'm 16, yeah?

[204] And I had these, I had some very crazy things which go borderline which you could explain like sort of with statistics or whatever.

[205] Yeah.

[206] So maybe too crazy.

[207] But like, but there were some, there were some things where I tend to believe in the spiritual explanation, yeah, because they were, yeah, I think harder to explain or you can always explain them with statistics.

[208] you know what I mean like but I don't care like it does work tremendously well for me okay so going back to this company you founded with these two your two sort of like university mentors this company went on to be really successful I think you said it's worth probably about 15 billion at last check market cap today but like I sold very early but very early I sold when we went public for a billion so it was it was one it was actually pardon do you regret selling well there's there is a short and long answer no because like the short answer is no because like a that money was the basis for the rest, yeah?

[209] B, also people always mix up market cap and share price.

[210] So, meaning, I sold it the lower share price that it's today, but the share price is not 15x because they did capital increases.

[211] There was dilutive stuff.

[212] So, so anyway, long story, it was an amazing start.

[213] Yeah, so, yeah, it was actually the quickest biotech IPO, I think, in Germany ever.

[214] We IPO three years, three and a half years later of the foundation.

[215] and for a billion so it was everything and it was sort of I dropped out of university before but it was the sort of catalyst I would say yeah so I don't regret that and since then sort of I'm investing and being an entrepreneur somewhat in between I would say I actually sorry when I'm jumping I had this one story again by the way which is completely you can serendipitous serendipitous and like even a bit more so I remember it exactly I was 14 years old and I was with my best friends back then in Munich which is far away for me this was like going going to the big city and we spent the weekend with family members and I really remember every single detail of the weekend like what we did and like where and we went to a bookstore which is for Germans who listened Hougain Dubell back then was like sort of like a I don't know iconic bookstore hundred years old in Munich.

[216] I think it's still even there, although books are dying out.

[217] Smaller.

[218] So it's in the prime location of Munich.

[219] And so I remember it.

[220] So I go into that bookstore and there was these whole, I would say, promotion wall with just one book, which is the American think and grow rich from Napoleon Hill.

[221] And do you know like when in movies, like the 14 year old boy it goes in and then the light is coming down and then the hallelujah is coming sort of that meaning there was no music there was no light i was like that's it think and grow rich i need to have that book so i bought the book and it was practically my first kind of being napoleon hill is not as spiritual as some others yeah but like that was my journey into that world of let's say spiritual infused success books how do you define spiritual well there is like napoleon hill is sort of and i love it by the way because they're all so old like they're all out of the 1920s so they they don't have the zeitgeist which i think in terms of success is rather negative like so it's sort of like raw american only principles yes exactly like and napoleon hill has this why it was a great entry into that thing because his few was if you read many the book starts that he says he got commissioned by um Andrew Carnegie, who was the steel magnate, to find out and do interviews, which I think, by the way, you are doing in a certain way, with successful people, and find out if there are common traits, you see traits denominators, which make them successful.

[222] And he did that with all the famous people of his time, from Andrew Carnegie himself, to a lot of other famous people.

[223] And then he made that into the book.

[224] And he's actually saying that the question, he doesn't answer the question, these rules, so to say, work.

[225] He's more a neutral observer.

[226] And then the next one is actually there's a guy called Dr. Joseph Murphy who wrote similar books, but more like with the spiritual undertone why these rules work.

[227] Same rules, sort of more explanation why they work, which went more into the religious world.

[228] And then you have all the other book.

[229] And the law of attraction is nothing else, which is sort of the modern version and the key, which is a sort of a simplified version of an anyway simplified version, yeah, of themselves.

[230] Like, but it's at the end, it's always the same rules, some which think they are God given, some which say, look, again, this is statistics, whatever, but they do work.

[231] I deeply believe and these things do work, yeah, which is like visualization, the way you think.

[232] It's visualization is that the main thing, I think, is two things, is visualization, so I meditate in the morning and evening, but it's not real meditation, it's more like visualization.

[233] So I always have a plan for the week, for the months, for the year for my life.

[234] And everything kind of did come through so far.

[235] So I'm always thinking, what could I add, like a wish list?

[236] Yeah.

[237] And now again, you can say if you add something and then you focused on it, it might come true because you focused on it.

[238] There could be a very banal explanation that it's relentless execution and nothing magic.

[239] And again, I don't care.

[240] It's like, I'm like, well, like, yeah, it does work.

[241] So I think it's the two things.

[242] visualization and it's also these that you have for example I'm not it sounds very crazy but I'm trying to not have negative thoughts so and then there is a number of negative thoughts you're going to have any way because you have to deal with stuff when you run a business but I for example I've never watched a horror movie since 20 years at least because it gives me negativity so I and I go the extra mile so I told for example friends when they are too much complaining and the first one friends can call for a problem but then I'm like let's go through the problem that's the solution that's what you're going to do but if they would repeatedly because some people want to not solve the problem they want to repeat the problem then I'm like you can't call me again on that topic because no negativity yeah so I really have a rule yeah so no negative movies I never watch a movie with has not a happy ending so I have people check or I check yeah before does it have a happy ending no bad endings nothing which makes me sad nothing which makes me negative because I'm not allowed in my own religious philosophy to have negative thoughts and feelings.

[243] Feelings are even more important than thoughts because I think they are the underlying driver.

[244] And it sounds now maybe cheesy and simplified but I think if you, this is what I'm doing since I'm 14 and if you train yourself not, and again you will always have an sort of amount because sometimes hard things happen.

[245] And I don't want to pretend as if my life was easy because I did have very hard times in business.

[246] But even in those times, I was lying in my bed, literally, and was like, okay, this is not fun what's happening right now, but it must happen for a very, very positive reason because this is how your world works.

[247] And funnily, it always, the worst things in my life turned into the best ones.

[248] Yeah.

[249] So because I, again, and you can say loud, maybe somebody would say, well, because he was persistent and he didn't fall.

[250] Okay.

[251] then this is the explanation.

[252] Maybe there's a deeper one.

[253] Again, I don't care.

[254] I can always come to the back.

[255] But I would tell everybody the two things emotionally is like, don't have negative thoughts, just focus on positive sort of thoughts, visualize.

[256] These are the key things.

[257] Be happy.

[258] So many things that, you know.

[259] And dare to be happy because most people are, again, don't allow themselves to be happy.

[260] And even think it's a little bit negative.

[261] So there's this whole thing happening on Instagram.

[262] I want to come back to this point about this movies.

[263] And because I think it's very much linked to your whole thing about alcohol and stuff, this, this happiness equilibrium you talk about.

[264] But just quickly on that point of being really positive and unapologetically positive and saying, listen, don't call me with the same problem twice.

[265] Don't interrupt my positivity.

[266] There's this whole movement happening on Instagram at the moment where there's such a thing as being toxic positive it's called.

[267] It's bullshit.

[268] Like, no, and I like, beginning on this point, like, because that's one, I think, I mean, again, maybe.

[269] So I have to do that.

[270] So maybe I'm sitting there.

[271] I'm already so old that there is another generation.

[272] I'm thinking about the other generation.

[273] And because I'm reading a lot like very old stuff and you find Socrates complaining about the youth.

[274] So maybe that's a recurring thing.

[275] But I really think part of the millennial culture of these victimization and always like blah is this is so wrong.

[276] This is so wrong.

[277] So to pre -take a question because they normally say, well, you're saying that because you're rich, white yeah so I was like okay this is maybe a point let's go back because I didn't talk a lot about it but I'm happy to do it like I grew up in these 90 people village yeah I'm gay I'm actually happily gay but I look meaning I know I'm gay since I'm 11ish roundabout so and I was looking at sort of that world I was growing up in and I was like that's not going to resonate here yeah so seriously like and that's very very very positive phrase yeah so in my school people were saying let's beat up gay people and I was like that's not going to end well but I didn't think that is anything bad by the way I didn't even think these people were sort of wrong obviously they were wrong but I was like they don't know but I'm not like ah these are bad people I was just like be pragmatic sometimes life is not fair sometimes life is not nice but you can decide if you react on it that's one of the other points I really believe in that you have these tiny millisecond in life on everything if somebody is sort of rude to you if somebody says something very bad and you can decide if you hurt or not.

[278] It's your decision, by the way.

[279] Nothing's going to hurt you if you decide you're not going to be hurt.

[280] So I was like, they don't know better and I can't, by the way, and by the way, gay is not what defines me. So I was like, well, then I'm not gay for a while till I'm out of here.

[281] Yeah, I can't have, because there are other things which define me, like, friends, like, you know, like, you know what I mean?

[282] Like, it's not that I reduced myself to this one thing and was like, and now I need to shout it out to the world and in return would have get beaten up.

[283] Like, I was like, just like, just don't do it.

[284] Like, but don't blame the others, yeah.

[285] And then move away someone.

[286] Also, I mean, I mean, he's all like, don't try to change everybody else.

[287] Work on yourself and like, and your environment and what you can change.

[288] Like, I could have started like, oh, my God, my life is miserable.

[289] And I'm growing up in this village and blah, blah, blah.

[290] And actually, talk about serendipity.

[291] I'm honestly, but again, I'm trained to see the positive stuff.

[292] if I look back, if I would have been straight, I wouldn't sit here for a very simple reason because I would have dated every single three minute I would have had and would have enjoyed that, yeah, so, but I couldn't.

[293] So what did I do?

[294] I was working my ass off and learning all the time.

[295] So, and if I hadn't had the grades I had, I would have ended the first money I had, I would have never met these guys with whom I started a biotech company.

[296] Yeah.

[297] Nothing would have happened.

[298] I would have been an ordinary straight boy.

[299] Most likely smart, yeah, but not uber smart because sometimes it's smart and hard work to get great.

[300] Yeah, it's not all false and fun.

[301] So, so practically, if you say like, the adversary or the negative thing being gay in a very hostile environment and not talking about it and focusing on other stuff completely made my life.

[302] Yeah, in a very positive way.

[303] I would, I mean, yeah, I, I'm so happy that this was the case, yeah.

[304] And again, and everybody should look, everybody has limitations and negative stuff, but you should look at it and say, they are there for a very positive reason and something amazing will come out of it.

[305] I just need to have these continuous sort of expectation.

[306] And optimism.

[307] And you have a real sense of like personal responsibility that comes across, like you'll take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

[308] But who else?

[309] But it's like, who else should be like?

[310] The government or, you know, someone else.

[311] We see that with the vaccine.

[312] Give the government a little bit of responsibility and it goes totally wrong.

[313] You don't want anybody be responsible for you than yourself.

[314] So going to this point about the horror films, which I thought was somewhat connected to what I've heard about your rule with alcohol and cigarettes.

[315] I hear you've never drunk before, ever.

[316] You've never had a drink.

[317] Exactly.

[318] So there were two reasons for it.

[319] They were connected.

[320] Again, by the way, the one reason was because I was actually thinking, like, if I'm going to be drunk 14, 15, I'm going to spill out.

[321] and then it's over.

[322] So my social life of being the darling of the school.

[323] And I was also like, I was very nerdy.

[324] So teachers loved me, but I was also, how you say, school speaker of the school, So I was socially had a great life.

[325] So I was like, no, let's not risk that.

[326] Like, no alcohol.

[327] You could say the wrong stuff.

[328] Yeah.

[329] So there was the one thing.

[330] And the other thing was that I always sort of because you do that as a child and in general, and I think it's a good thing.

[331] Like, if you have one weakness, in my case, the weakness for the time was being gay.

[332] The others, you build on your strengths, which was like, okay, I think I'm kind of smart and also like smart in terms of learning smart.

[333] I learned very easy.

[334] I always had the best grades.

[335] So I was sort of focusing on that.

[336] So I was also like, okay, alcohol could take that away from me because I thought it makes me dumb, which, by the way, does, yeah, in a lot of amounts.

[337] I still wouldn't drink.

[338] But so these are my childish reasons not to drink.

[339] And then I just decided, okay, I think I have.

[340] the perfect equilibrium, like being always happy, having very good grades.

[341] Everything was perfect.

[342] So I was like, I'm not going to touch any drug ever.

[343] And you still haven't touched alcohol, cigarettes.

[344] No. So I haven't drank alcohol.

[345] I haven't smoked a cigarette ever.

[346] I haven't smoked a joint ever.

[347] I have no one to take cocaine.

[348] I haven't anything.

[349] Like, no comment.

[350] I did, I did actually drink alcohol the first time when I was, sorry, coffee the first time when I was 28.

[351] So you avoided coffee as well.

[352] I was even avoiding coffee and tea, yeah, because it was a drug.

[353] It was almost like the very religious people, so I would have been a good Mormon.

[354] So, but then coffee I started drinking when I was 28.

[355] There's something crazy here where you think, okay, so the guy that doesn't want to upset his equilibrium goes on to be the biggest psychedelics investor in the world, which is all about.

[356] I think there was a very good ground because what happened is, so I had a discussion or a dinner.

[357] It wasn't a discussion.

[358] It was like a dinner discussion, like somebody set us next to each other with funnily the joke and said oh you the guy was a very or is a very famous drug researcher like he's the David not of Germany like the a drug yeah advisors to the government and yeah a neuroscientist and somebody said oh you should two should sit next to each other because maybe you can loosen Christian up a bit and he could drink a little bit of alcohol so so this is how I met Ryan on his name um deputy again no but like exactly like again but everybody else else would have said, I remember that I was like, oh my God, that's awesome.

[359] Like, and everybody else would have said, well, again, every single thing happening, I see it's good for me. Yeah.

[360] So, um, so anyway, so we had this discussion and, the short version is he was like, look, everything you think is bad is bad.

[361] Like, so don't touch it.

[362] Exactly.

[363] He actually showed me these and, uh, whoever is watching, and maybe I don't know if you can put it into the, the, like, yeah.

[364] So he's like, It's this very famous, but it's so, to the point, I mean, David Knott in the UK wrote a whole book about the misperception of drugs.

[365] But this one, like he had this one chart, which David Nutt made, and Reiner pulled it off in the internet, where you can see sort of the harm of each drug.

[366] Yeah, so how much harm, there was this harm scale.

[367] And frankly, on number one is alcohol.

[368] But isn't in a holistic approach, alcohol is the worst.

[369] And then closely followed by.

[370] by heroin, which, by the way, the media used a little bit against David Nutt, which was highly unfair because the headline, I remember, I think, in the sun or whatever, was like, oh, Guy says heroin is better than alcohol.

[371] No, the thing is like, they're both very, very bad, like, but alcohol is as well.

[372] We have these.

[373] And this is the chart that says the harm to you and the harm to others.

[374] Both.

[375] It's in one, exactly.

[376] Yeah.

[377] So, yeah, a chart that shows the harm that these different drugs have on you and others, and alcohol is the worst.

[378] Exactly.

[379] I was the worst, but closely followed by heroin.

[380] Yeah.

[381] And closely followed by, crystal math or whatever, like, everything is bad.

[382] And I really like, if there is one positive outcome of people watching that, don't do it.

[383] But don't do alcohol, don't do heroin, don't do crystal mass, don't, nothing.

[384] No, there is no, by the way, and I'm the most, again, pragmatic person, because what I was talking with him was like, is there any drug?

[385] There could be a drug where you say, oh, it has a little bit of downside, but it has enormous upside.

[386] And then you can think for yourself.

[387] Again, you are responsible.

[388] I don't think the government should be responsible to think.

[389] think for myself, is there any upside of me taking that risk?

[390] Because if I go in a car, I came to you in a car, so I took a risk of dying, meaning very low, but there was a risk.

[391] But it's worth to sit with Stephen and do their podcast.

[392] Like, no, but everything we do in life, by the way, people should look at it is like risk return.

[393] Yeah.

[394] So maybe somebody says, oh, if I smoke a joint once in a while, it makes me so relaxed.

[395] Anyway, but you should be aware of the risks.

[396] And I think people aren't, especially not.

[397] alcohol.

[398] Yeah.

[399] And if you then still decide actively, I'm going to enjoy my glass of wine, then I think it's great, but you should know it.

[400] Anyway.

[401] So, but at the end of that scale, it said, at the very end is mushrooms, magic mushrooms.

[402] And before the very end, the second sort of easiest or second lowest risk is LSD, practically the psychedelic group of drug.

[403] And he was like, Christian, like, I can't tell you what my host told me to tell you that you should try alcohol, don't, meaning I can also tell you you're not going to die, but like, don't do it.

[404] Yeah, but you should do actually magic mushrooms.

[405] And I was like, look, you're clearly insane.

[406] Like, I've never drank alcohol and I'm not going to touch an illegal drug.

[407] Yeah.

[408] And he was very, very persuasive because he was like, look, first of all, you do biotech.

[409] You started your career in biotech.

[410] Like, I send you, I send you all the research I did or I do.

[411] But also, which was very cool hindsight, I didn't even value it back then.

[412] He was like, I did my PhD with famous Hoffman who invented LSD.

[413] So Ryan was replucked into like the old guard of psychedelic luminaries.

[414] And he was like, I sent you all what he did, like read it.

[415] Because there were all these studies.

[416] It's not like a crazy idea, meaning again, actually magic mushrooms or the ingredient pseudocybin was used as an approved medical drug in the first.

[417] 50s by Sandoz, actually very, at least in Germany, famous brand for depression.

[418] He was like, look, it was medical.

[419] It has no risk, as you can see.

[420] I tell you, I send you all the studies, at least read it.

[421] And again, I'm very curious.

[422] I was like, well, sent me. So there was actually, again, serendipity.

[423] And so, and now comes the biggest serendipity.

[424] Because like, so for one year, I was just like, not meaning it's not that I had it on my mind every day.

[425] It was there, like, I read a little bit here.

[426] And by the way, again, I know there's even a book about that, which says what some people believe is destiny, it's just like, if you are aware of a theme, yeah, it's a little bit like when I tell you, don't think of the blue elephant or whatever, you think of it.

[427] Like, so there is this one book, I can't remember the name, which, again, would be fine for me, like, because again, it works, was like, if you are aware of a thing, of a theme, then it pops up everywhere.

[428] You'll see it.

[429] Yeah.

[430] So over a year, there were, not a lot because it was completely not in the public domain.

[431] But like, they were once here and there, I was like, okay, read something again, whatever.

[432] And then more or less exactly one year later, I was with my best friends who actually have a steak in a tie, so they're happy, with my best friends in the Caribbean.

[433] So, disclaimer, it was a place where it's legal.

[434] And they had magic mushrooms.

[435] And they had it like, it looked like mushrooms.

[436] Like, this was good because I'm so hypochondriac and frightened of everything.

[437] So I would never have taken anything which didn't look like mushrooms.

[438] So these were dried mushrooms.

[439] Like, so I was like, okay, that from the ground.

[440] I was like, okay, that looks real.

[441] Like, and they were like, and I trust them.

[442] They're my best friends.

[443] Yeah, so big shout out to Landon and Julian.

[444] Yeah.

[445] So I trust them anyway.

[446] They were like, we grew it ourselves.

[447] So like safe.

[448] We know what we're doing.

[449] Yeah.

[450] And I was like actually calling Rina.

[451] You know, the guy you'd met in Germany.

[452] Yes, so I'm not mentioning his last name because I don't know if he works still in a very famous job.

[453] And he was actually saying the sentence, look, as your doctor, friend, do it.

[454] It's the best place, best people, you know it's real.

[455] Set and setting.

[456] Everything is perfect.

[457] Do it.

[458] So I took all my courage ahead.

[459] I was really like, and it sounds now I can't say how nervous I was in sort of both.

[460] anxious and positive.

[461] Like it was like really like not.

[462] Maybe people say, oh, he's talking about magic mushrooms all the time.

[463] It must have been an easy decision.

[464] It was not, yeah, for days.

[465] And I was like, okay, let's do it.

[466] I still know exactly the point on the beach, yeah, because we're going there every Easter and somewhere I'm going to put a big magic mushroom statue here.

[467] I really will.

[468] I really will.

[469] I know the guys own the island.

[470] So I, yeah, they already know of it.

[471] Actually, the guy who owns the island is now a shareholding at high as well.

[472] Everybody is.

[473] Literally everybody is.

[474] So, so.

[475] So I did it.

[476] And it was the single most meaningful thing, full stop.

[477] And by the way, it confirmed everything I just said.

[478] So because what a lot of people report is that you, it's a very spiritual experience.

[479] And in that case, it was not just a spiritual experience, but it really confirmed 100 % my fuel life.

[480] Which is, by the way, interesting, because if we look now at people, because a lot of people ask me, especially successful people, they are like, oh, I've read somebody takes it and then he's want to be a farmer in Brazil.

[481] By the way, which was my biggest fear.

[482] My biggest fear was like, I'm going to come out of that and I'm going to change my whole life because I realize that, I don't know, I want to do something else.

[483] Hindsight, I tell everybody that look at me and look at others.

[484] We have both.

[485] We have people like me who come out are very, even more happy, but for me it was a very big confirmation of what I'm doing yeah um because um yeah I don't need up because like it was a confirmation like okay you see the world in the right way everything what you do how you do you can work on it so I got a lot of ideas how to make it but like sort of the message was you're on the right path so some other people come out and the message is look you have to do something completely what is why is it different and it's actually the same, what it does.

[486] I think one sort of, how you say, one description of psychedelics is in general, they, you realize or you recognize yourself and all your sort of positive, all your dreams, all your trauma, and everybody has a bit of trauma.

[487] Must not be a real, so everything.

[488] And then some people, and then I was always hindsight, I can say now I was right, like I or I was right I was good in it I was always living a very honest life to myself again doesn't mean that I say hey I decided for example not to tell anybody I'm gay but that's not from my point of view this was not a lie because it's my decision but it was not a lie to myself yeah it was an active decision to just make my life it it was not suppressing it was just like pragmatically yeah by the way this was also very simple there was also nobody to date I was very simple like no no no exactly risk return there was no upside there was nobody who would have appreciated that.

[489] And if there would have been a hot guy and I was like, he's gay, I'm gay, I was like, hey, immediately.

[490] But there was no upside, but a lot of downside.

[491] Anyway, but what I'm saying is like, I always lived a very honest life to myself.

[492] Again, this doesn't mean you have to shout everything out.

[493] And this was confirmed.

[494] So other people who don't live an honest life to themselves and lie to themselves and maybe tell themselves that they are happy with X, Y, Z, they might realize on a magic motion trip that they're not.

[495] they need and this is the other people who change yeah but so it's very dependent on yeah but it was just one aspect of so many positive aspects and then sort of i immediately after the trip had sort of the idea okay this should be actually legal i was actually not even the first impetus was not that i should make a company because i was very sure people must work on that stuff because it's so powerful and when i then found out actually took me two years i was looking around around, like that there was none, then we did it ourselves.

[496] Just to go back to that point, though, you, you categorize that moment your first trip as the single most meaningful experience of your life.

[497] Yep.

[498] Today.

[499] Full stop.

[500] Nothing comes close.

[501] And maybe I would add plus the follow on trips over the last year.

[502] So it's not just this one trip, I would say, as well, but I would, I would summarize my psychedelic experience.

[503] and I still try to do a trip once or twice a year in a country where it's legal.

[504] Yeah, I would summarize as the most meaningful sort of holistic experience I've had in my life.

[505] Yeah, for sure.

[506] You do this trip on the beach with your friends.

[507] You think to yourself, you know, this must be legal.

[508] Fast forward, you get a call from one of your friends called Mike.

[509] No, it's way crazy.

[510] It's way crazy.

[511] Again, super serendipity.

[512] So fast forward, for two years, I was very, very, very carefully looking around and actually not telling a lot of people about it, which was wrong.

[513] And if I would have gone on like that, I wouldn't sit here again, meaning at least not, no, I would sit here, maybe, but like not talking about mushrooms or psychedelics.

[514] So for two years, I was kind of extremely holding back.

[515] So I told my closest friends.

[516] Actually, the ones who knew me very well saw that, or positive, like my parents were like, hey, you became an even nicer child.

[517] We have an amazing person.

[518] relationship, but it became even better.

[519] So my mom was very quickly saying something happened in your holiday.

[520] Yeah.

[521] So, so the ones who knew me well, but like I didn't shout it out.

[522] And I was actually very, very careful and shy because it's like technically.

[523] Yeah.

[524] And back then, by the way, let's not forget.

[525] Like we're talking about it also now so easily because all the books came out.

[526] We have the success like compasses listed.

[527] Like now is completely different than.

[528] So anyway, so for two, two years, I was very, like, low -key.

[529] And then I had, and again, this is like maybe the biggest financial serendipity or the message of the universe, if you want to see it like that, because for two years, I was sort of like just telling friends, very close friends.

[530] And then I had one other trip within a holiday trip.

[531] The main message on that trip was, Christian, this makes you so happy, you have to talk to other people about it.

[532] Don't be shy.

[533] Just.

[534] just good thing will come out, things will come out if you talk about it.

[535] So I had a real mission.

[536] So I got this real mission on that trip to sort of be open about it.

[537] And then actually from that holiday, I was flying literally the week after I met a very close friend and business partner of mine, Mike Novogratz, who's big in finance.

[538] He's huge.

[539] He's not what I want to say.

[540] He's not the guy who would talk about mushrooms normally.

[541] And I wouldn't have had.

[542] but he was my test case because I had the mission.

[543] The mission was, don't be afraid to talk about management because it's going to be good for you and the world.

[544] So I met Mike and he literally, Mike, he's always like that, what's up?

[545] Because I think I do cool stuff like from, it's blah this stuff.

[546] So a lot of friends always like, hey, what's new?

[547] What's up?

[548] What are you investing in that?

[549] I was like, Mike, you won't believe it.

[550] I just had a mushroom trip and this was amazing and I want to tell you about it.

[551] And he was like this, whoa, mushroom.

[552] I remember Mike said the sentence like he hasn't talked about it hadn't back then for like 20 years because especially in the US a lot of people it's like a college thing like party journey he was like 20 years never heard about it again since college so I told him all of my experience on that trip and in general or it's so and he was like very interested yeah and so the next day literally the next day my phone rings Mike is on and actually he said it yeah he said little Christian, this is the weirdest.

[553] So since 20 years, or I haven't talked about psychedelics for 20 years, yesterday you were in my office, talking about nothing else in psychedelics.

[554] And this morning, my sister, or his sister called him, said my sister called me, and she's on Bali with these crazy couple from London who told her they want to start a company which is working on bringing magic mushrooms back in the legal realm and they need somebody He was financing them and nobody wants to touch it.

[555] And I was like, this is such a coincidence.

[556] You in London, day in London.

[557] Like, yeah.

[558] And these are George and Katya, the founders of Compass.

[559] Yeah.

[560] And I was like, connect me immediately.

[561] And I remember this was January.

[562] And then we met when I was back and they were back from Bali in February, 2017.

[563] And they tell me, if we talk about, like, within the meeting, I was like, okay, we're going to do that together.

[564] That's what I've waited for.

[565] since two years.

[566] And again, if I hadn't taken the decision to openly talk about it, I wouldn't have told Mike, I wouldn't have met George and Katia, we wouldn't sit here, at least not sit here, talking about this one.

[567] And the magic mushrooms were the thing that told you to talk about it.

[568] Exactly.

[569] The trip.

[570] And you end up being, you know, the single biggest investor in the space, which is now really sort of main, becoming more mainstream at an alarming rate, a sort of a category that's exploded from a financial perspective.

[571] And you've, you've, you've co -founded and invested in the two biggest sort of companies in this area, a tie and Compass Pathways.

[572] Exactly.

[573] So practically I co -founded both.

[574] So in Compass, I was more the seed investor because it was George's and Katya's idea.

[575] And I added actually a very close friend of mine, Lars, as the third co -founder.

[576] And I was the seed investor.

[577] But sort of I was there even before the company existed.

[578] We were sitting in my living room and planning it.

[579] And then when I realized how positive or it was, actually, easier is the wrong world but it was sort of I had I had expected more hurdles yeah and it's maybe sadly actually the time which is helping us because there are so many people suffering and it becomes sort of also financially sometimes life is very the world functions very pragmatic like in the moment something becomes a big crisis also financially yeah the yeah and it creates opportunity yeah so anyway whatever whatever it was, it was the right time.

[580] So Compass quickly actually got FDA, Fast Track designation, which was a big thing, stuff like that.

[581] So, and then I actually realized, oh, there are more psychedelics out there, meaning everybody's always almost using magic mushrooms and psychedelics as the same, but like we have the headline psychedelics, a group of drugs and psilocybin, the active ingredient in magic mushrooms, is one of them.

[582] So there are more of them from MDMA to LSD, ketamine, ibugane, whatever.

[583] And Compass wanted always to focus on psodocybin.

[584] So I was like, okay, then I'm starting a tie as sort of a platform where we actually bring on more of these compounds to explore them for mental health issues.

[585] Of all the compounds in a tie, and I know there's a lot of them, right?

[586] I think you've got over 13 compounds, different psychedelic compounds within a tie.

[587] We've talked a lot about magic mushrooms and that the active compounded magic mushrooms for anybody that doesn't know is psilocybin, which is what Compass Pathway does.

[588] Of all the others, and I know this is like, I've heard you say before, this is like choosing your favourite child, which ones of the psychedelic compounds is incredibly compelling to you and really stands out is being able to have a really significant impact?

[589] That's really hard to say.

[590] I really mean it because like it really, because they all have, all, all compounds we work on have a sort of reason to exist or positive, like have a place in treating mental health issues, hopefully.

[591] Tell me about Ibegain then.

[592] Yeah, so then now it's what I was like, how is the question is what is your, what does somebody sees as the biggest problems or name me the problem you think is the worst and then I tell you sort of which drug is the best, like kind of so.

[593] So I think ibugane is interesting because also because, Ibrahimian goes against addiction and there is actually almost nothing else which works for addiction.

[594] So addiction, we talk about here, severe addiction.

[595] Like, especially to opiates and heroin, is sort of, I don't know if you can say it on an English podcast, like you're fucked up.

[596] Like, it's like, that's one of the really severe mental stuff, like where most people have a, how you call it, like, relapse, relapse.

[597] Like, and then it's also one of these sort of things, if you look at, I don't know, families and friends where somebody is addicted sort of it's very like it's a cancer in in in the social environment so it's sort of it's but age but I would even say any mental health is like it's always affecting others as well but I think addiction sort of stands out in a certain way and ibugane is the only drug we know which potentially I always have to say with all these drugs potentially because we're about to prove it once and for all with scientific terms or of scientific framework, FDA is sort of compliant, but I will gain as the potential to really cure addiction with one trip.

[598] Yeah.

[599] And there will be a massive game changer for the whole opioid crisis.

[600] But even alcohol addiction, like it's not just okay.

[601] It's like, yeah, and yeah.

[602] You know, you're trying to make people's lives better, right?

[603] You're trying to get them.

[604] It almost seems like, you know, because you've, you've been gifted enough to be happy your whole life.

[605] You're doing a lot to make sure other people can be happy on one end.

[606] But the other thing that you're doing, which also kind of blew my mind when I met you, is trying to extend life.

[607] You know, you've got Elon who's like trying to save life on earth, but also take us to a new one.

[608] And it seems like, you know, a pyre on your investment company is trying to make the life we live more joyous and fulfilled, but also trying to extend it.

[609] And the work you're doing with life longevity, I actually find maybe even more bonkers.

[610] Like, when I first heard about psychedelics, I was like, really?

[611] and then I spent six months, nine months learning and I was like, oh my God, like, I get it.

[612] But life longevity for me is like, really?

[613] We can really, we can really extend our lives.

[614] And you've got companies which are working on that challenge.

[615] So tell me about life longevity.

[616] Is it possible?

[617] I, well, okay, let's, so, so let's phrase it correctly.

[618] Like, because even I, if I want to sort of say something very pokey, I'm like, oh, we're going to live forever, yeah?

[619] That's not going to have.

[620] happen for an accident reason, meaning, yes, you could say maybe we live forever if we really upload our brain to our computer, but that, not that I think that's completely impossible, but I think then we're not human anymore.

[621] That's a different discussion.

[622] Like, so, but I would say as long as we stay fairly human, meaning having a body, having sort of the human set that we have, yeah, there will always be an end.

[623] Let's start there.

[624] Because the worst case, if you live hundreds of years, you're going to have an accident somewhere, somebody blows you up.

[625] You have a, by the way, it's going to, as a side note, I think it's going to change, once we get older and older, it's going to change the way, how we look at risk, because I already start avoiding crazy stuff because I'm like, it's not worth it.

[626] Again, risk return.

[627] Like, I have this one colleague, I always try to convince he's 50 and he drives a motorbike.

[628] And I'm like, you shouldn't do it.

[629] Like the sort of statistic risk is so big of driving a motorbike.

[630] And his answer is, well, because he's still thinking his life expectancy, if 70, he's like, well, but I'm exchanging 20 years if it happens against my biggest passion.

[631] And this is a trade of worth it.

[632] And I was like, well, A, it's already stupid.

[633] But if you, it's okay.

[634] If this is your opinion, 20 years against the risk of losing it.

[635] But I tell you like, it's not 20.

[636] You already, if you're 50, I'm going to get you up or we're going to get you up with longevity science to maybe 90 or 100.

[637] By the way, in a good way.

[638] So would you exchange 50?

[639] And then suddenly you see, okay, then he starts thinking because so, and now thinking it a little bit further, like if you say, hey, our natural life experience someone will be 200, maybe we stop doing stuff.

[640] We're doing now because it could sort of, yeah.

[641] So back to your question, like longevity never means immortality.

[642] Because again, as long as we stay kind of human, because there's an accident risk.

[643] By the way, I also believe spiritually again that we don't want to live forever.

[644] I think.

[645] part of being human, again, as long as we stay that.

[646] And we can talk about that as well, because it's another thing I'm thinking a lot.

[647] Maybe we don't stay human in our current form.

[648] But as long, so I think two part of being human is having an end.

[649] Because that makes everything we do.

[650] So I just don't want it now.

[651] Like, I want to have more of it.

[652] But I think the sort of the limit, that there is a time limit on being human is actually which makes us thrive.

[653] Yeah, and which makes us everything special.

[654] Everything special.

[655] So I don't think I want to take that the way.

[656] I just want to extend the joy.

[657] Doesn't it just become relative again then?

[658] So if you live to 150...

[659] But what I really believe, what we get in the next, maybe like 30, 20 to 30.

[660] I think it's going to come way quicker than people think, is that we're going to get life expectancy up to a time or to a size, to a mass, magnitude where we want to die.

[661] And I think it's even like this will be arranged.

[662] And some people might already say, 100, I had it all.

[663] I had enough birthdays, enough Christmases.

[664] And so some people want to maybe live to 300.

[665] But I think we're going to give people that optionality sooner than we think.

[666] And then I think dying will be like, this is my vision, like it's a celebration.

[667] I would someone say, look, guys, I had it all.

[668] I love you, love life.

[669] But I really think I'm ready for whatever.

[670] comes, maybe comes nothing, I don't know, but like, I have an expectation, but like, yeah, but whatever it is, I'm going to finish it now, throw a big party, say goodbye to everybody, and then go out on my own terms, on my own time.

[671] I think that's going to be sooner than we think.

[672] You whispered that, I have an expectation.

[673] Well, I think there is another life.

[674] Like, I think it's a continuous cycle, but that's not a spiritual question.

[675] Like, but like, I very much believe we have an eternal soul.

[676] Yeah, I don't even think there is a number.

[677] But first of all, I, again, I come back, which gives me a lot of things.

[678] I don't believe in the Christian thing that we have anything to prove.

[679] That's already starts because it means you're not worthy and you have to prove yourself worthy.

[680] It's like you, I think everybody should be deeply happy and do exactly what he or she feels is the right thing to do now.

[681] By the way, again, this is I think what people realize on the psychedelics is like they, I always like to say which is maybe a good way to describe a psychedelic trip.

[682] Like since we're young and again, maybe my parents were like better than other parents in avoiding that but since we're a baby people start telling us what we should do what we should not do how we should be how we should think how we should do and i always say like there is your soul somewhere like what the form of your soul is like but there is somewhere the level of you and again the problem is when we have this discussion and what i want to avoid why i'm sometimes so blurry is that if you start using religious terms then some people might be set off, yeah, or pushed away.

[683] Because if I use the word soul or God, then a Christian person might have a different reaction than a Muslim person, than a Hindu person, yeah.

[684] Interestingly, a lot of people who went through psychedelics have sort of the same description.

[685] Because so, so anyways, this is by trying to use as neutral worlds as possible.

[686] So let's call it soul or inner you or whatever.

[687] And then you have all these sort of external, sort of garbage almost what other people put on you yeah and and I think some people literally lose sight what they really are and want so and I think it was always very good so what I realized under my trip that sort of so what happens under a trip sort of all this garbage is taken away so you really look at you but you and you are real naked sort of form like form I mean, like, you recognize yourself, all your fears, all your wishes, all your, whatever, yeah.

[688] And interestingly, it was, for me, it was still a great experience, but it was not so different.

[689] So, which told me, okay, I did a good job before psychedelics to sort of be, again, true to myself.

[690] And I don't believe in what some face say that, that, oh, you have to be worthy because you are worthy, yeah, and you are great.

[691] you just should live the life as sort of it is fit for you.

[692] And again, this is, for everybody, it's different, but you need to know it.

[693] So, so, but to compare, so this is my belief.

[694] And then so, so there is no, okay, I have, it's not like a computer game where you have to reach a level and do certain things and then come to the next one.

[695] I just think it's like an endless positive sort of cycle of experiences.

[696] Yeah.

[697] So, and I'm definitely know that somewhere and I'm going to want to go to to the next the level is the wrong word to the next experience.

[698] Yeah.

[699] But for now, I want to actually extend this one.

[700] A lot of people don't get to live, and this is what I was thinking is like, this idea that people will get to a point in their life where they say, do you know what, I've had enough, this has been great.

[701] Would you genuinely believe you'll get to a point where maybe 150, whatever, where you think...

[702] I think someone is going to happen.

[703] Maybe it's very late, meaning I hope.

[704] But again, I think this is the ultimate, meaning I'm already pissed about the government interfering in, my stuff in any way, but the biggest interference is death.

[705] It's not my, I don't choose the time, I don't choose, like, and we need to change that.

[706] So I think the biggest sort of liberty everybody has will be choosing his or her own death.

[707] But you'll always be curious.

[708] The world will always be changing.

[709] Well, great.

[710] Then I go on like a long time.

[711] I, I'm trying to understand if I, if I genuinely believe that Christian Angamire will ever get to a point where he's bored, because you're such a curious.

[712] But it's great.

[713] If that is the case, I really don't know.

[714] But I'm just saying I believe like again I think there is a moment everybody will come to that maybe it's very very great like I'm working on it like and you don't think death is a is a especially that age is like a natural thing I hear you talking about it as a as a bug or as a disease or something that's I would say definitely aging is a disease something is wrong so something is I know how the 20 -year -old Christian looked and was and felt.

[715] And by the way, my DNA is the same like it was when I was born, like it was when I was 20, like it's now.

[716] But something of the same DNA, it's like a little bit, we know how the house, it's the construction plan of the house.

[717] It's the same.

[718] And some why the sort of minions who translate the construction plan into the building, change it and not to the better.

[719] from age 20 on, like I get craye hair, whatever, like so, but we know still it is there, like the original source of information is there, our DNA.

[720] So we just need to find out, it's super simplified, what changes the translation of our DNA into mistakes and into what we call aging.

[721] That's a very simplified few, but it shows you that it's not so natural, yeah, because it's not that your DNA is, if you don't be natural, maybe your DNA would change, we'd say we can't change that.

[722] Yeah, but it's not.

[723] Like, you know, it's the same until you die.

[724] Like, so we just need to make sure that the translation happens like when you were 20.

[725] So, by the way, I deeply believe not just that we can slow down and stop aging, we can reverse it.

[726] Because again, I know how Stephen, many, you are still obviously at your prime.

[727] Yeah.

[728] But I know how Christian in his primes looked like.

[729] You're still in your prime.

[730] You know what I mean.

[731] Yeah.

[732] And we can't bring back.

[733] So, so.

[734] So, yeah.

[735] Some animals live for a couple of days, though.

[736] So I take, like, I look at take an evolution.

[737] perspective on this and think like, you know, there's some like flies that live like four days, but it's enough time.

[738] Maybe we are there at the moment to escape the evolutionary velocity.

[739] Maybe that's the pinnacle where we sort of start becoming.

[740] And I know because I don't mean it like in a plasphemic way.

[741] I think we meant to be like gods in our own way.

[742] Yeah.

[743] And we start now to go to the sort of source and construction of life ourselves.

[744] And I think that's an enormously curious thing.

[745] And like, yeah, maybe that's what we meant to be.

[746] I'm rather on the positive side.

[747] that this is not blasphemy or whatever, but this is like what God set us up for, so to say.

[748] By the way, every single religion, it's a very fun.

[749] Nobody ever, I don't see it.

[750] I love, by the way, and you know, we can't say today that there is a big thing coming out about religion and science of religion, but I always loved that.

[751] I always was finally drawn to the mystical side and the religious side and aside of what we discussed on what I co -spirited side, I was always very interested in the history of religions.

[752] And interestingly, one sad, actually, happy and sad observation is that in the very core, all religions are the same.

[753] They all preach the same good stuff.

[754] Be nice.

[755] Be nice to others.

[756] And then once they become an organization, the shit starts.

[757] So and also what most religions have, just going through, but yeah, literally most religions have, the big ones, is that they at the very beginning say that we are a part and a member.

[758] mirror, it was the English term, that we are an image of God.

[759] And we don't talk about that because now everybody's like, oh, if you want to live forever, well, a lot of people, again, if you want to defy aging and there are a lot of people that, oh, you want to play God.

[760] Yeah.

[761] This is a lot of the rebuttal.

[762] And I was like, but maybe that's what we meant to be, because if I go to the Bible, it says we are the image of God.

[763] So maybe we are meant to play God because that's what we are in a philosophical way.

[764] So I don't think it's not ethically at all.

[765] I think it's the ultimate, actually, challenge we have to solve.

[766] Yeah.

[767] The other rebuttal I would, I thought the first time I heard about the possibility of extending life was that, you know, we'd have a really aging population where we'd all be.

[768] So it's interesting you talk about reversing aging, but we'd all be 170 and slightly like, you know, slow and unproductive.

[769] It doesn't make any, it doesn't make, it doesn't make sense.

[770] You can't extend life.

[771] that much without rejuvenation.

[772] It comes at this, thanks God, and nobody wants to be like.

[773] Because by the way, that's what most people fear, though, why they, it's interesting how many people reject the idea of living very long.

[774] I don't know if I ever living very long.

[775] But one of the very banal reasons is that they automatically think, okay, if Christian would succeed in making us live till 150, they take, okay, I know a 90 -year -old granny of mine, and she's not in good shape and now they add another 60 years and they're like, no, that's not what I want.

[776] But that's exactly, but that's not what's going to happen.

[777] In the moment we can push life expectancy way further than 90, it goes hand in hand with rejuvenation.

[778] And then more people want it.

[779] And what time frame do you expect?

[780] I think we're going to see really, really tangible steps forward the next 20 years.

[781] And then let's say 20 to, 40 latest.

[782] By the way, which is not that far, yeah.

[783] And, and also the, this is going to change society, meaning everything.

[784] And interestingly, every politician I talk to things like, well, that's far away.

[785] And I was like, no, it's not, it's not that so far away than you think.

[786] And like, it's going to affect us sooner.

[787] And we need to talk about it, about, about social systems, about anything.

[788] Yeah.

[789] This is going to be one of the massive, like, but not a negative way, by the way.

[790] I think it's going to be good, but like, I'm an eternal optimist.

[791] Like, but like, you know, it will be a massive change for the world.

[792] Well, let me drink this delicious drink.

[793] What's it called?

[794] Sure, I put it like in a commercial in that.

[795] Leave them in.

[796] It's like, hopefully it's better at, who will?

[797] Fuel, yeah, yeah.

[798] Human fuel.

[799] Human fuel.

[800] Okay, it's a very good name.

[801] Yeah, it's very good name.

[802] Who came up with that name?

[803] Julian Hahn.

[804] Oh.

[805] Yeah.

[806] So switching, because in fact, the topics of conversation we've discussed are super interesting.

[807] But personally, the things that I find most fascinating about you are you're just like ridiculous, ridiculous work ethic.

[808] And I've talked to some of your friends, I spoke to Aaron, I spoke to people around you, just to confirm what I thought.

[809] And the intensity and the amount you work, I think, is just like staggering.

[810] I think I'm really hardworking.

[811] I've seen you in action around the clock over the weekend.

[812] The fact that we're doing this on a Saturday, I don't normally record the podcast.

[813] Well, it's a hobby.

[814] It's like having fun.

[815] It's not like work.

[816] But I know it, yeah.

[817] My point is about, you know, in culture, people talk about this term work -life balance and I think you've kind of responded to it there.

[818] Very easy.

[819] There shouldn't be a work -life balance.

[820] There should just be one continuous hobby.

[821] It's my funeral.

[822] People should love what they do in a way.

[823] Obviously, you do different things and I love more things.

[824] So, but like, I always said, since I'm 16 or actually 14 since I have my tutoring, if I would call it work -life balance, then I have a shitty life because it's just work.

[825] But my work is my life and I love it and it's integrated and most of my friends I work with and like even like friends who didn't dis how I came to the movie business because just like I had friends who were actors and were in a movie business.

[826] And then I was like, maybe we should work together.

[827] Maybe you should finance a movie.

[828] Like it's like, yeah, I don't want to see it as a separation.

[829] Separation.

[830] Separation.

[831] Let's talk about more personal things.

[832] So relationships.

[833] How does someone who works as hard as you find any...

[834] I'm presuming you value what relationships can bring you?

[835] Well, a complicated topic is working progress.

[836] Welcome to the podcast.

[837] The diary.

[838] Oh, no. No, it's like...

[839] No, that's work in progress.

[840] So that's like...

[841] Because obviously, like, I'm so much in love of my work that it's always...

[842] It's hard, I think, for another person.

[843] although I think I can try to be very uplifting because I would try and say the same what I told you is like I would tell every partner like you have to find you can't expect for me to get give you meaning you need to give yourself meaning and then we can be happy together yeah but this is unfortunately not how a lot of people work like so it's very easy that's sort of I have a quote on Instagram my best performing quote ever it says if we're dating I want to be your second priority I want your first priority to be you your passions you have future.

[844] If we're happy alone, we'll be happier together.

[845] Yeah, that's a lot.

[846] I mean, so I'm happy alone, by the way.

[847] Yeah.

[848] I'm also like an introvert extrovert.

[849] So people think I'm very extrovert and I can be and they want to be like I like to host parties and dinners and do things like that.

[850] But then I want to be alone actually a lot.

[851] So do you value and tell me the value of a relationship in your view of like a really good committed relationship.

[852] Do you value it?

[853] That's A complicated, right?

[854] So, because, because if I say no, it sounds brutal.

[855] What's the truth?

[856] No, no, and I don't mean it.

[857] Like, I, I think it's more, the answer is more complicated.

[858] So I build myself that I, that I'm sort of very, like, independently.

[859] So, so I value relationships a lot.

[860] So that's the real answer.

[861] But I'm not in the concept that one should stand up.

[862] So I rather have groups.

[863] So I believe that, or I believe, like I do have like 10, but not one, like 10 very, very close friends, who most of them I have since a very long time.

[864] I actually extremely value relations, but I'm not saying, okay, there is this one relation in my life which will completely stand out from the rest, which is maybe a complicated thing for a I do think, though, this will change once you get children, yeah, so which I want.

[865] So that's sort of the, yeah, and by the way, I also do think people change, like, and I don't think the core of you changes, I like the core, but like you can make adjustments.

[866] So I know, for example, that when I want children or once I have children, that I have to make adjustments, because I just want children if they have the same happy childhood than I had.

[867] So I want to be either no dad or a great dad.

[868] Yeah.

[869] So, and then I know I need to make adjustments.

[870] So, but then it's worth it.

[871] And then it's my active decision to take it.

[872] How is it?

[873] You are the busiest person I know.

[874] I was just thinking then.

[875] I was thinking, is this the busiest person I know?

[876] You're probably, you're the busiest person I know, I'd say.

[877] Have you struggled to have romantic relationships because of that busyness?

[878] I feel like, you know, like a interrogation of Kurt.

[879] What did you think was going to happen here?

[880] Yes.

[881] This is what it's...

[882] These are the things no one talks about, right?

[883] And I sit here, single, struggling.

[884] So I'm like, I'll ask Christian, because he's way busier and I'm struggling.

[885] So is there any hope for Steve?

[886] Yeah, totally.

[887] There's hope for all of us, be positive.

[888] It's funny.

[889] This feels like a bit more of an uncomfortable topic for you, for some reason.

[890] No, it's just very private.

[891] It's not uncomfortable.

[892] I will tell you my fews in private.

[893] Easier.

[894] Because there's 100 ,000 people watching.

[895] Exactly.

[896] hundred thousand people now it's getting gritty like cringy um no it is definitely a problem full stop like yeah and you realize that you're going to have to adjust if i yeah if i want to yeah yeah and then you always say like okay you do that the issue is like what i'm thinking a lot how do you know when to adjust like in terms of because you would say romantically would say you adjust when the right one comes how do you know that the right one comes if you don't have time to figure out with right there is a little bit and i haven't figured that fully out you're someone looking at the past 40 years of your life that does whatever he wants to do and isn't actually very good at adjusting unwillingly you've never been good in your life story at doing something unwillingly exactly no it's the way christian wants to go and i just i wonder i'm like when will what will be the catalyst you said kids may be there but we'll be the catalyst that makes christian adjust but maybe it's a rule romantic thing you really like love at first sight.

[897] I mean, again, the good thing is that I deeply believe that makes me very common that coming back to what we had, this I, I deeply believe it's going to come at the right time.

[898] And I know that I'm sort of enough open for it because it's the same like with business ideas or the same with other stuff in my life.

[899] Again, if you're open, open heart, open mind, you're going to see it when it comes.

[900] So it's not, it's a little bit like With anything else, I say, like, you don't have negative thoughts.

[901] Don't think, oh, I need it now.

[902] Like, yeah, so it comes when it comes.

[903] Like, because everything in my life came at the right time.

[904] Why not this one?

[905] So I'm very, that's how I see it.

[906] Well, I guess at the macro level, the moment things came, I can just say now business stuff, but like, I get it, business is my life.

[907] Like, when psychedelics came and then the business, meaning that's sort of very a big part of my timer location over the last four or five years was into the secondary business I made space for it and so I'm always like it's not again when things comes you realize that you realize the message and then you make space for it but there's a chance you said that you might be obstructing it from coming and happening because you're so preoccupied with no I'm thinking about that but then my conclusion is then usually that or is because again like I'm because romance is maybe but it's not maybe it's maybe not like finding a good company.

[908] Maybe that sounds now very, very non -romantic, but I don't mean it's romantic, because I also think finding companies very romantic or very, very emotional.

[909] Yeah, if I look, for example, the psychedelic business, I think that, but I do actively, again, it's not that I'm ignoring, it's what I said before, my philosophy of not having negative thoughts doesn't mean that you cannot analyze sort of stuff and sort of look on the risky side.

[910] I do think about it, is my life how I lead it, maybe preventing to have sort of the one and only romantic experience.

[911] Yeah.

[912] My conclusion is then mostly that I'm like, okay, no, because like it will come at the right time and then you're going to realize it and then you're going to make space like I make space for everything else.

[913] It's so funny because you're such an eternal optimist.

[914] I almost can't get you to.

[915] But that's how it work.

[916] Bad things happen to me as well.

[917] bad things are there, but my mind twists it around or twists like, this is what I'm really training since I'm 14 since I bought the book in a unit.

[918] Like every, throw it to me and throw it to me a negative thing.

[919] And I'm, I'm maybe a little bit puzzled for a second or for it.

[920] So even this is how it works.

[921] Like things, even if things in our portfolio don't go well, I'm like a little bit like shaken for a moment and then I'm like, where's the good thing?

[922] And how can I turn that in my mind?

[923] How can I see the upside?

[924] Yeah.

[925] It's fascinating.

[926] Because, yeah, I'm trying to get you to, you know, the reason why I start this podcast is because sometimes I want to highlight that for all the great things people see that, you know, there'll be people watching you thinking, I would want to be, have all these companies and manage two billion of assets and all these things.

[927] But there's always a, there's always a some kind of down, not downside, but sacrifice we could say that's happening.

[928] And I'm trying to get at where that sacrifice is.

[929] And the problem is you are happy.

[930] So, and you're pursuing.

[931] yourself.

[932] So it's hard to identify a sacrifice when you're that optimistic.

[933] No, I know what you mean.

[934] I just try also as a message not to see it.

[935] Like I think people shouldn't see it because that's the negative story about success.

[936] The negative story of success is that people see people and say, oh, I want to be like them.

[937] Yeah.

[938] I would like to have the wells.

[939] I would like to have X, Y, Z. Then they can't immediately have it because by the way, it's a long process and you need to work harder.

[940] And then they tell it, oh, they must have gone through a lot of sacrifice.

[941] And then this is a little bit what calms them down.

[942] Oh, they have a lot of bad stuff like coming with it.

[943] I think that's the wrong way to look at it for both sides.

[944] Like I think the right way to look at it should like, do I really want that?

[945] Is this really what makes me happy?

[946] Yeah.

[947] And then it's, by the way, not that easy to, meaning everybody would say like, oh, yeah, it's like simplified that money makes me happy.

[948] but then, again, do you make it happy what comes with it?

[949] But I don't want to call it a sacrifice because I wouldn't do it if I would have to sacrifice stuff in order to get money because it's not about money anyway, by the way.

[950] Money from a certain moment on is not really...

[951] There is a great research.

[952] It's like that from practically zero to X, money gives you happiness because it makes your life easier.

[953] But then someone, you're not going to spend it because someone, it becomes a figure.

[954] Yeah.

[955] And then it's about do you love what you do?

[956] Yeah.

[957] So latest then.

[958] Yeah.

[959] But like so I don't, people should see not this.

[960] You can't see, I don't know, wealth or anything separated from the, the process of how you got there.

[961] Yeah.

[962] And then it's not about saying, oh, the process was hard and sacrifice.

[963] It's like, is the whole process what I love doing?

[964] Then you should throw, you sort of feel it.

[965] Or is it something else what I love?

[966] And then you should not though.

[967] envy other people because that makes you miserable as well.

[968] You should always embrace what the problem is people often don't know what they really want.

[969] And then again, psychedelics give you.

[970] But like in the moment you embrace what you really want and maybe like a housewife maybe really loves it.

[971] It's not something where she should say, oh, I'm just a housewife and somebody else is a big entrepreneur.

[972] Maybe that's what she really wants in this life.

[973] She maybe wants to have children, take care of them and take care of him in exactly the way.

[974] But it's about knowing that actively, not letting other people put you in that position or let circumstances put you in that position, but like actively know yourself, is that what makes you happy.

[975] Yeah, I've written about this at length in the book, this idea that like, but obviously the huge force in our lives at the moment, which whispers in our ear that we want to be something else is like social media and society to say, you've got to be a doctor.

[976] Your mom might say, or Instagram will say you've got to be a billionaire.

[977] And really, you just want to be an artist that dances in Croatia.

[978] Exactly.

[979] Embrace it.

[980] But again, you need to know it.

[981] By the way, I think as much as I love tech, it's one of the other topics which really like sort of how you say, keep me away at night, is something in the world we live in, or actually something in the world we are building because we reconstructing the world in any form.

[982] And people I think have no real glimpse yet how crazy this will be.

[983] Yeah.

[984] We're going now.

[985] People think we were in like a 20 year of tech boom, which is true on the one side.

[986] But if you're really honest, and there is this famous quote, which I love to use from Peter Thiel, who said, we wanted flying cars and we got 140 characters on Twitter, yeah.

[987] Which says, practically, if you look at the last 20 years, yes, we had a tech boom, but more or less, I'm simplifying, yeah.

[988] what changed is the distribution of goods, Amazon.

[989] Now we're not shopping anymore, we're getting it delivered.

[990] But it's still the same goods, yeah.

[991] And social media, it changed, communication changed.

[992] But we didn't go to the fabric of society, industry, and ourselves.

[993] So now we're starting going to reformulate and rechange the fabric of ourselves, longevity.

[994] We're going to really make.

[995] like not just five years again, maybe we'll have 100, which change everything.

[996] We change, and this is all interdependent.

[997] And in a moment we change the fabric of our body, or then we change the fabric of society because society is very much linked to an 80 -year life expectancy.

[998] Yeah, flying cars are now really coming.

[999] Literally, we have flying cars now.

[1000] We're going to go to Mars somewhere.

[1001] And it's going to happen, maybe 20, maybe it's going to happen.

[1002] So the world is going to change like we have never seen it before.

[1003] so and I love it yeah and you love it and maybe even the people who watch that love it because otherwise they maybe wouldn't watch it but like the majority of people doesn't yeah so and I think that's one of the underlying reasons which makes the society more and more depressive or mental health because like I think there is this enormous fear and people often have like I think it's another word for gut feeling like you have you can't really explain it what makes you nervous, but it makes you nervous.

[1004] And I think that's what happening.

[1005] So I think the sort of the world as a whole, except of some internal optimists and some techies, yeah, are like, yeah, maybe I like a single piece.

[1006] I like my iPhone.

[1007] I like that.

[1008] But as an entirety, that makes me deeply uncomfortable.

[1009] The race have changed around you.

[1010] So, and even if they don't know it, the bus driver maybe can't fully explain how a self -driving bus will work, but somewhere he feels that in 10 years, it's not going to be his job anymore.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] And I think that creates a lot of risk because the last time that happened, that was when we changed from the agricultural society to the industrial society.

[1013] Yeah.

[1014] And you can say now we change from the industrial society to let's call it data society.

[1015] We need a word for it.

[1016] But we're changing and changing a massive way.

[1017] So and then there are a lot of parallels of the time between 1875.

[1018] in 1920 the people were there was this elite technically who said everything is possible you had I think it was in 1870 but I don't know somewhere when the Eiffel Tower was built there was these what is it called world exhibition like yeah and people were like oh my god meaning there was Jews Vern but it was also around the time and hopefully I spell him right in English like he wrote all these books yeah like the sci -fi books yeah so the world was already there once unfortunately we had then two world wars yeah and you can look at a lot of reasons why World War I wanted to happen and there is a lot of different layers of reasons.

[1019] But I believe that the main reason is this sort of disenfranchisement of the agricultural society who were deeply panicky like what's happening to the world because the world, the farmer in the 19th century knew was disappearing in front of his eyes.

[1020] And it's exactly happening the same again.

[1021] So could there not be another reason linked to that why people are becoming depressed in the technological evolution because at the start of this podcast you said about the importance of nature and I've read studies about you know prisoners who face who face nature versus a brick wall are 30 % less likely to be depressed and the sort of very human prehistoric origin of the human being is one that's in nature it's one that's in a tribe has meaningful connections and the technological revolution is ridding I now live between four white walls alone in a big grey city could that also not be part of the reason why people are we're getting less human than ever and in fact what I what I like about you know when I read about some of the social reasons why people are getting more depressed it's because we're getting further and further away from being human this is maybe a little bit more philosophical but like if you look at like the things that help with mental health some typically it's it's meaningful connection it's nature totally it's good diet no more junk and these are all things that humans did 10 ,000 years ago it's like we have to go back to find ourselves again or we have to find our human place in a world which is changing.

[1022] So yes, so I do think a lot, how can we stay human in a world which is changing that crazily as it does?

[1023] Which wants robots?

[1024] It's like this world now would appreciate if I was a robot, more productive.

[1025] No, I think we can adjust.

[1026] And by the way, and I know what it's like, and I'm saying that with all the disclaimers, it's not legal right now.

[1027] And I'm always coming back to that.

[1028] But I do think someone psychedelics will be the medication for that.

[1029] Because it keeps us in a certain way very human, but at the same time makes us very adaptive on our environment.

[1030] So it's more or less the same what you said.

[1031] So how I see what do humans need to be happy.

[1032] I think it's three things.

[1033] It's some form of faith.

[1034] And I explain it in a second.

[1035] So it's faith.

[1036] it's purpose and it's love it's super cheesy what i'm saying now but like these are the three things which i i think make us as a as a as a combination of these three things make make us happily then i think let's go through it the faith means any form of um higher meaning or the other way round, I think being atheist or believing richly in a materialistic world where if you die, you're dead and then you rot, makes people very unhappy.

[1037] This is not a, again, meaning I made, I think, the case that I believe in in more.

[1038] But like, it's not even a case.

[1039] It's just like saying, like, factually, I think people need that.

[1040] We need, this is why every society ever developed the religion.

[1041] Like, I think we need it.

[1042] Why?

[1043] Because we terrorized of dying.

[1044] We don't admit it.

[1045] I admit it.

[1046] I don't want to age.

[1047] Aging sucks.

[1048] Dying sucks.

[1049] And even worse, by the way, dying of people I love sucks.

[1050] So, and we don't talk about it.

[1051] We completely pushed it away from us.

[1052] And I believe religion always gave people that sort of calmness or a little bit of a calmness that as death is not the end, you're going to see people again, people you love, whatever.

[1053] So, and I think it's important because otherwise you have this permanent terror of death in your head.

[1054] And you might not have been it, but you have.

[1055] Second point is purpose, what I say with a bus driver, people need a purpose, yeah, and they need to know why they wake up in the morning and what they're doing.

[1056] So having said that, in front of our very eyes at the moment, like these things are dissolving that the purpose is, so we need to find new ones.

[1057] And the most important is we need love.

[1058] And in a cheesy way, must not be a one -on -one relationship, but it could be a one -on -one relationship, could be a family, could be a close friend, could be a community.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] So love.

[1061] on various levels.

[1062] So actually, the bad thing is, if you look at where the world is going at the moment, all these three things are dissolved.

[1063] So faces on a super decline, then purpose is on a decline because we're changing the world and most people don't find their purpose immediately there.

[1064] And then unfortunately, also communities are on decline, traditional family structures, but also communities, meaning if I remember if I grew up, I had like, what do you call it in English when you go to like a theater group and I had 10.

[1065] groups like it was it was the sort of the pinnacle of community we were so and it was great yeah and I don't think if you have that anymore in that way yeah or at least it's sort of vanishing yeah statistically accurate there's a study in the US which says um 15 years ago people would respond to the question how many people can you turn to in time of crisis the medium answer was three it's now zero crazy like I had 10 when I was young and psychedelics are giving you that all of that they're giving you faith spirituality they're giving you purpose because you you you realize that the purpose lies within you and you can reinvent yourself and they're giving you love because you realize the value of connections, whatever.

[1066] I read tons of things and this is a bit of a sideway, but I read a...

[1067] It's really great.

[1068] What is great?

[1069] I love it.

[1070] He's talking about the hula he's drinking.

[1071] It's good.

[1072] I will send you a big box of it.

[1073] There's different flavors.

[1074] This one's berry, so we'll send you this flavor as well.

[1075] But it's also really good for you.

[1076] It's the reason I'm in the best shape in my life.

[1077] I read something really interesting, which, again, goes against a couple of narratives I would expect from you.

[1078] You said you have 42 pills a day.

[1079] Roundabout.

[1080] This is someone that doesn't want to mess with their equilibrium.

[1081] It's having 42 different pills a day.

[1082] Well, no, yeah, but it's not like...

[1083] Cocaine, no, I'm checking.

[1084] No, no, it's like...

[1085] Is someone going to put it online?

[1086] Because so many people ask, like, so I...

[1087] First of all, I think everything we take, we eat is an active decision.

[1088] So I, like, so if you remember, like, before the podcast, I was looking at it because I wanted to know what is in it, like, and there seems to be a lot of good stuff in it, yeah.

[1089] So I don't, I'm not in a camp where people say, oh, vitamins or any form of added stuff is bad because everything I eat is something external going in my body, yeah.

[1090] So and then my view on aging at the moment is at the moment, there is unfortunately, we're working on it hard, yeah, but there is nothing which really slows down aging dramatically.

[1091] dramatically or or even reverses it.

[1092] However, there are things which give you a little bit of an edge.

[1093] And the edge is not big, yeah, but unfortunately I'm not 20 anymore.

[1094] If I would be 20, which then I would say, hey, no, then that optionality would be super easy.

[1095] If I would be 20 now and I tell that my godchildren, I don't believe it, they're 10.

[1096] I'm like, you're going to live for hundreds of years.

[1097] So I'm unfortunately, fortunately, because I still have the opportunity, And again, my decision was like, I want to work on it because I think I do it better than others.

[1098] Yeah, and then I trust myself than waiting than others doing it.

[1099] Seriously, like, but like, I'm like, okay, but I'm at the borderline, like, because I need to hurry up.

[1100] So, so even if I do something now at the moment, which gives me statistically two more years, that's two more years, like, yeah, in a race.

[1101] Tell me what these things are?

[1102] Well, I think the easiest.

[1103] Because I'm 20, so I'd like to.

[1104] Yes.

[1105] So I think there are some easy things to do, like the, for example, sleep is super important.

[1106] Why?

[1107] Why sleep important?

[1108] I mean, you could talk about you could be.

[1109] You should do.

[1110] I told you that you should do a podcast just about sleep.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] Sleep acts upon last two weeks ago.

[1113] Oh, you had so.

[1114] It's perfect.

[1115] There's so many reasons.

[1116] But sleep is one of the core things.

[1117] We don't fully understand it yet.

[1118] But like who has practically if you.

[1119] I don't know the exact number, but really.

[1120] why we sleep from Matthew Walker, like, I think if you, if you sleep two, three hours less than you should for some days, your immune system is collapsing.

[1121] If you're immune system collapsing, that your probability of cancer goes up.

[1122] And I mean, sleep has so many, good sleep is so good for you and too little sleep has so many negative consequences that, so sleep is super important.

[1123] So I try to sleep enough.

[1124] For example, I try, that's one of the luxury things, which I can do because I work for myself, that I don't have early morning meetings.

[1125] So, and I have always something to do, like emails, whatever, but I try that I can wake up naturally.

[1126] So I never wake up with an alarm clock, unless I need to fly or whatever, yeah.

[1127] So that's one thing.

[1128] Then obviously no alcohol.

[1129] Alcohol is toxic, like, full stop, cigarettes, all drugs except of psychedelics are toxic.

[1130] Yeah, so don't do them, yeah.

[1131] Very bad for aging.

[1132] Yeah, you see that, by the way, when people like, yeah, I don't want to say now that I aged well, but like if I go to a class reunion or whatever, like some people who drank very a lot of alcohol and eat it, yeah, they look older.

[1133] Like, yeah, it's like, so, so they say is food, like intake, be healthy, don't carbs, like sugar is super bad.

[1134] Like, I think so, so I don't want to go, yes, I do 42 pills or whatever it is, yeah, and meaning it's, I mean, the list would be long, and maybe, again, maybe I put it somewhere online, but I think the message is because if people jump from zero to 42 pills, they won't do it anyway.

[1135] So, ever listens now, I would say, if you do the three, four, five things, which sort of, it's these 80, 20 rules.

[1136] I'm trying to carve out the last 20%, but go for the, sort of the easy, hard and easy first.

[1137] Sleep, healthy food, exercise is super important.

[1138] Must not be super hard exercise, but like every day, like 20, 30 minutes of mild to medium exercise.

[1139] As I said, no drugs, no alcohol, whatever.

[1140] these are the main ones.

[1141] You're going to be significantly healthy.

[1142] I heard you talk about intermittent fasting.

[1143] Yes, so sorry, intermittent fasting is one.

[1144] Yes.

[1145] So I try not to eat for 16, 80 hours a day, every day.

[1146] And once you start doing it, you sort of...

[1147] Why do you do that?

[1148] Why do you intermittently fast?

[1149] I've always been curious about it.

[1150] I've never done it.

[1151] Because it's very healthy.

[1152] I mean, there are a lot of health benefits.

[1153] Your blood sugar level sort of normalizes, which has then sort of a lot of follow -on effects.

[1154] Yeah.

[1155] It's also, you lose weight.

[1156] It's a very simple.

[1157] Like, yeah.

[1158] I am, I actually only have one of the thing that I wanted to ask you about.

[1159] I mean, I don't.

[1160] I have a million things.

[1161] But in the interest of time, it was about Bitcoin.

[1162] Yep.

[1163] You've, you've been a big investor in Bitcoin.

[1164] And the future of Bitcoin, you're bullish.

[1165] Super bullish.

[1166] Because what I think is like all politicians from left and right from, from any part of a spectrum, and by the way, I think about a lot, I think maybe it's not even a stupid decision what they took but like all politicians decided that money printing is the thing to go yeah so we're gonna see these massive devaluation of fiat money and never before again i really love history and normally this happened to one currency or one country or whatever at the moment it happens it's it's happening to all the major currencies in the world euro uh remnant um b like u s dollar everything is sort of devaluated at the same time.

[1167] So because everything is relative to each other, obviously, by the way, it's not just Bitcoin, but assets go up.

[1168] This is why I'm on a 10 -year horizon, I'm extremely bullish on in general quality assets, stocks, Bitcoin, anything, which is not cash.

[1169] I think the most dangerous asset class for 10 years is cash.

[1170] It doesn't mean, by the way, there can't be stock market crash, whatever, in between where you want to have cash to buy.

[1171] Yeah, so you should have like, how I was saying, in English, tactically cash, but not like strategically cash.

[1172] So but Bitcoin and so Bitcoin is one of these assets first.

[1173] And then second, the world always needs a store of value.

[1174] So for thousands of years gold was the store of value of choice.

[1175] I mean, you think about how many currencies were there and many thousands.

[1176] Because by the way, always politicians mess it up.

[1177] Always like politicians can't be entrusted with currencies, full stop.

[1178] It's always a bad idea.

[1179] Always 100%.

[1180] And so people always have gold.

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] So but gold is also people and say, oh, Bitcoin has no value.

[1183] Gold has no value.

[1184] You can't eat it.

[1185] It's actually one of the things that you can't eat it.

[1186] It's maybe nice to look at.

[1187] But like it's just a convention.

[1188] It's just an agreement humanity has.

[1189] And I would go further.

[1190] It's embedded in our cultural system.

[1191] There are so many fairy tales and things about gold.

[1192] But if you ask a 10 year old for him, it's Bitcoin.

[1193] Bitcoin is his pop culture store of value.

[1194] And that's exactly like gold.

[1195] And I think that shift has happened or is about to happen that Bitcoin is at least additionally to gold and someone will completely make gold redundant is the new store of value.

[1196] And it's just, you can argue now what's the value of Bitcoin because it's a convention.

[1197] It's a deal society made that we accept that.

[1198] That's the value.

[1199] There is nothing more.

[1200] You can add that and say, oh, maybe Bitcoin is disrupting the financial system.

[1201] But it's all secondary.

[1202] main thing is, is it a store of value or not?

[1203] And for me, it is a store of value.

[1204] That's sort of the main driver of Bitcoin is the new gold.

[1205] That's enough, by the way, to make it still go up dramatically compared to gold.

[1206] You can talk about this forever.

[1207] But my last question, and this is definitely my last question is, as you think forward, you know, in your future, you set up at the start of this podcast about visualizing every morning.

[1208] You visualize and you think about the things that you want your future to hold.

[1209] I know if I said to you, like, what's the end.

[1210] There is no end.

[1211] I get that because I understand you're thinking.

[1212] This is a continuous pursuit of your own hobbies and interests.

[1213] But when you visualize what you want Christian's future to look like, say in, you know, a couple of decades from now, what are the like the principles of that future?

[1214] What are the characteristics of it?

[1215] I still want to look like today.

[1216] You want to look super sexy and young?

[1217] Yes.

[1218] You want to look 20 years old.

[1219] We're going to make that.

[1220] Yeah, we can do that on Photoshop.

[1221] No, not on Photoshop.

[1222] We're going to make that in real life.

[1223] Because I value human connection, Photoshop doesn't work because you're We're all going to be cyborgs anyway, so in virtual world.

[1224] Well, I think we're going to be cyborgs.

[1225] I think we're going to, that's one of the drivers, which I think is still human.

[1226] We're going to merge with technology.

[1227] We already are, meaning what is it called, like which you put on your heart, like a stent or like whatever, yeah, yeah, it's already like a cyborg.

[1228] It's just like very early, exactly.

[1229] It's very so, but that's the whole point.

[1230] There is no end game because that would be kind of sad.

[1231] It's the same like with work -life balance to say, if I would just work, Because then you back at these famous sort of, what was it a novel from?

[1232] Who was it like these old tale where the fisher is on the, the guy is on the beach and meets the guy.

[1233] Yeah, another story.

[1234] Yeah, you know which one.

[1235] I mean, yeah.

[1236] Where then it comes out, oh, he works his ass off just to lie on the beach.

[1237] And then the poor guy is saying, why you could lie on the beach now.

[1238] That's the whole point.

[1239] It's about the journey.

[1240] It's not about an end point.

[1241] So I don't have an endpoint.

[1242] And I never had.

[1243] I just like try to keep my, again, it's all about keeping my life.

[1244] life exciting because if it wouldn't then I would want to die so keep my life cool and this by the way it can change when maybe in 40 years it's not I'm not a robot like this is not gonna I'm not gonna be I'm maturing like or maturing like I'm changing in a positive way like maybe in 40 years I decide that I don't think so but I don't know like the good thing is that I'm open for it but I want to be already maybe in 40 years I look I had now everything I had on a in Ontario and entrepreneurship, maybe I want to...

[1245] You feel yourself changing and maturing.

[1246] Yeah, but maturing is...

[1247] Changing, but in a good way that, again, I'm trying to continuously analyze what...

[1248] Now we're back at the word soul or whatever you would call it.

[1249] Your inner voice is telling you what is good for me now.

[1250] And it might be that this is changing over time.

[1251] So, for example, I decided the wrong word.

[1252] Like, I feel that it's getting time.

[1253] somewhere, not urgently, to getting children.

[1254] Like, if you would have asked me 20 years ago, I would have said, no, I don't want children.

[1255] Like, yeah, so, but it's like being open for that.

[1256] And maybe in 40 years, I'm just making it up now as an example, not that I feel here.

[1257] Like, maybe I say, look, I want to be a singer now, God beware.

[1258] And the world is like, no, no, no, no, because I really can.

[1259] But like, maybe I have some new ideas which really like are different what I'm doing now.

[1260] But like, it's important to stay open for that inner voice because it might change.

[1261] And just because, again, so far, continuously I love doing what I do and exploring that but like you know what I mean like I can get you yeah so don't put an end point there is not this one thing because they would be sad like if most depressive day ever isn't it exactly like the day you lose all meaning seriously meaning yeah well listen thank you so much for for agreeing to do this you are honestly that one of the most fascinating people I've I've ever met and I'm not just saying to win an Oscar but I'm sure you do no no there was one I want to be doing something creative like I and something artistic Artistic, yeah, so...

[1262] I've gone through the same thing since leaving social chain.

[1263] I was like, I'm going to DJ.

[1264] I've done a big...

[1265] By the way, I thought it was very cool when you told me that.

[1266] I was like, that's a cool thing.

[1267] I've directed a theatrical show with the associate director of Hamilton.

[1268] It's theater.

[1269] It's called The Diary of a CEO Live.

[1270] It's the theatrical version of my life.

[1271] There's a 50 -person choir, sold out already.

[1272] And I said to myself that I didn't want to be a label.

[1273] So I don't want to be a social media CEO.

[1274] I'm a guy that has a bunch of a perspective.

[1275] perspective and that perspective can be applied to art, my book, which I wrote myself, the show, creating music.

[1276] I've got my first DJ performance at a festival this year.

[1277] And I just thought, what if you detached yourself from your labels?

[1278] What kind of person would you become?

[1279] You'd become artistic.

[1280] You'd become health -centric.

[1281] You'd start businesses, you know?

[1282] For example, I always think I should write the script because I can't act when it could, like, when I'm not good at it.

[1283] Like, also, you should be always self -aware.

[1284] But like, oh, it's really, maybe you should write a script.

[1285] I was like, because I love movies.

[1286] I produced movies.

[1287] So, so I, so I was like, maybe I should.

[1288] But again, it's always listening to yourself what you're so in a voice, however you're going to call it.

[1289] Not society.

[1290] Exactly.

[1291] And not outside world is telling you.

[1292] You are the, probably the most interesting person I know in a really compelling way.

[1293] Sometimes I know people and they're like successful and I think, oh God, I hate to you that person.

[1294] But you are in like a really compelling, unique way because of your work you do, but because of your philosophy for life, because of this sort of this I guess like almost, I don't know how do they refer to it, but it's like how your, how your scientific view can merge with a spiritual one and a religious one.

[1295] I find super fascinating.

[1296] I think it's those sort of intersections that create really interesting ideas.

[1297] You're also the most hardworking person, I know.

[1298] But you're also a really nice guy.

[1299] Oh, thank you.

[1300] You know, really like nice guy behind the scenes as well.

[1301] And so thank you for coming on the podcast.

[1302] I think, you know, I think your future is going to be staggering.

[1303] I talk about you all the time to my team, all the time.

[1304] I'm like, you know, because you are very, very compelling in a number of really positive ways.

[1305] I think, I think the work you're doing with a Thai compass and all of your other companies are staggering.

[1306] And I think you're actually going to be one of the most important entrepreneurs, creators of our time.

[1307] I think the world is, oh, no, no, I generally are very bad.

[1308] I don't care.

[1309] I don't have these like, I genuinely was like, I know Christian coming on my podcast now.

[1310] I know in 10 years time, this is probably going to be one of my most few podcasts ever because of the trajectory you're on and the way you think it's my my prediction i'm very rarely wrong but thank you don't have to be like oh you're so right so you're not you're being too journalists don't know what to say in there we know i mean it i do mean it um and it's been a privilege to work with you over the last couple of months and understand that because it's been inspiring for me um thank you for doing this today i hope you've enjoyed it yeah i did i did very much amazing thank you thank you