E10: Dom's Diary - Mental Health, Addiction & Quitting Business

[0] This week may be my favorite chapter of all time.

[1] In chapter 10, I fulfill a promise I made you in chapter 9 by inviting on my business partner, Dominic McGregor.

[2] He comes on the podcast today to share his deep, dark secrets and his incredible story.

[3] So many of you will know my story.

[4] But this whole time, I've had somebody stood right next to me. And he's a completely different person.

[5] He chooses not to take the limelight, he has a different perspective on the world, and he's built in a different way.

[6] He has an incredible story.

[7] You'll hear things from Dom that, you know, I was honestly frightened to share with the world.

[8] And I first hired Dom back in 2014 to join my startup Walpark because he had grown a large social media page and I was looking to advertise the platform on social media.

[9] I messaged him online and I met him in a bar and I encouraged him to drop out of university and join me full time and surprisingly and courageously, he did exactly that.

[10] We've worked together side by side ever since for the last six years, and we went on to start social change together many, many years ago.

[11] Through that time, we've been through it all.

[12] We've lived together, we've worked together, we've traveled together, we've slept on floors together, we've argued, we've had celebrations like he wouldn't believe.

[13] Dom has his personal struggles, and me and him, as I said, are very different people, and there are things that I've always wanted to ask him.

[14] today was that day this is his story of success of mental health issues of alcoholism of the so without further ado i'm steve bartlett and this is the diary of a CEO i hope nobody is listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself okay dom a lot of people that listen to this podcast would probably follow me across facebook and youtube and twitter and instagram and um know a lot about social chain but they don't hear a tremendous amount about you so my first question to you is from your perspective why is that good question um i think the reason people don't hear a lot about me is a couple of reasons so i don't like to put myself out there too much which again you what you put out there you get back so that's probably a very main reason secondly the role I play is a little bit different to what Steve plays and what you play what you play because it's much more about like bringing people together and getting shit done and I think you know being frank you know I probably wasn't someone that maybe like a year ago two years ago could be someone who's put out there so what is that you do then and what make the distinction between what I do at social chain and what you do at social chain and what you do at social chain yeah um so i've always seen it mainly like the way i think about my head really is like a little bit like external internal like a little bit like we've always said like a marriage so what i do is solve problems of how things are working at the moment so solving what you know we've got problems with um a campaign because you know two parts of the business out working very well together things that going smoothly needs to be something to come in there to fix it to tweak it what Steve does is the role do you do, that's weird doing this way, what you do is much more about, it's the external kind of the noise of who we are, but getting ourselves out there, always being the face, always being repping the business, bringing them through the front door, being that kind of side of things, but then also more of the stuff that involves inspiration and the kind of perception of who we are internally as well, while mine's more nuts and bolts, pulling things together sticking things together this can be more efficient like that and obviously because i spend a lot of time doing external facing stuff i put myself out there i'm speaking on stages i do the podcast youtube channel all these things i have a cameraman following me at all times i get a tremendous amount of credit right i get like a disproportionate amount of credit how a lot i think something that i don't think anybody would understand and one of the questions i want to ask you because i feel like it's a question that people must wonder is i i definitely just being I'm completely honest, because that's what the podcast is all about.

[15] I definitely get a lot more credit than you do in terms of people using my name when they think of social chain or when they think social chain.

[16] How does that sit with you?

[17] I don't care because I know, like we've said a number of times you can't alter history.

[18] So I think it comes from being secure myself.

[19] I know what role I play.

[20] I know where we came from.

[21] I know the story.

[22] I know what we do here.

[23] I know what we both do and it doesn't matter to me I think I've always been the business is the most important thing here social chain is us so it's about making sure that is always going forward question then if social chain was two Steve Bartlett's would it work?

[24] No we never work our same question to you if social chain was two Dom McGregor's no same question to you oh you mean the same question if there's two Steve Bartlett two two two backers no no no no we never It would be a completely different place.

[25] I don't know if it ever would have been possible, to be honest.

[26] It wouldn't have got anywhere.

[27] No, because my, my, no, it wouldn't have.

[28] It wouldn't go anywhere.

[29] If it was too Dominic Gregos, it wouldn't go anywhere.

[30] No, I'm saying it would be a complete, no, it wouldn't, I wouldn't even started.

[31] There was the problem.

[32] You know.

[33] So I was going to say, if you, like, dropped me in, if you dropped two of me in, no. It would, it would hold, I think it would hold on for a little bit because Steve wouldn't want to jeopardise it because of other, Steve.

[34] but I think I'm very, very strong -minded in, like, the ways that I think things should be.

[35] I think over time I've got more, like, open to, um, ah, this sounds really bad, but like, I'm very, like, I'm very, very specific.

[36] And if there was another very, very, very specific person from very early on, in terms of, like, minor words and these, like, tiny things, I really don't know if that would have worked.

[37] It's, we've always said about having, like, complementary traits.

[38] And that's why it's worked.

[39] There's so many times when things have been realigned and things have to talk, where conflict in personalities, where similar personalities, sorry, would have clashed over their perceptions.

[40] And we say it about ego quite a lot.

[41] If you have two really big egos to a very, the same type of ego in the room, like you say, they both think their position is right.

[42] They don't have the, they won't have the foresight to be humble enough to say, well, could do it this way.

[43] especially, and I always think that the biggest impact, well, it is the biggest impact we both made, is in the early days, you know, when it was just two of us, when with Hannah and obviously everyone else there, that's when we defined the place.

[44] And, you know, that's when it took a lot of, like, work, you know, being honest, you know, you get me there.

[45] You've been doing a lot more public speaking lately.

[46] Yeah.

[47] Which is the, so we've, we're now, I don't know, three years into social term, probably like five years into doing this, really.

[48] But three years as a company, you've now sort of decided to take the stage and start doing more of the outward facing stuff.

[49] What's, A, inspired that.

[50] What's given you the courage to do that and how are you finding it?

[51] Well, what's given the courage, what's given the courage is the self -confidence.

[52] Like, I guess crippled by, like most people, I crippled by their anxieties about themselves, how they're looked, how their people.

[53] perceived.

[54] One of the biggest things I hate about myself is my voice.

[55] I've got a very distinct accent.

[56] You can hear it right now.

[57] It's not clean.

[58] It's not the best.

[59] And that's what my perception of myself is.

[60] So I speak quickly.

[61] I don't know.

[62] I know.

[63] So I've always shied away from long public conversations because of that reason, but also because of how I perceive myself and maybe not being a very natural presenter that it's how are you finding it i love it now honestly i've got i've got over them um the voice thing i'm not getting not over yet but i'm more embraced it what do you mean by the voice thing just like how i sound i don't like how i sound it's just an accent yeah i know but i i struggle i think people struggle to understand me sometimes which is again probably self -deluded but i think i did in the earlier days i would always i'd say i would and then you'd say repeat yourself what what what and I could never understand what you're saying and then you've got you're much more articulate than you were back then because you I just had no idea what you're saying most of the time at the start and that's that was a huge I've had that my whole life people and I have like God I need to speak slower and then when you're spending in front of people the minute you feel like you lose her attention that's when you start going into yourself even more so the idea of public speaking and I couldn't wasn't confident my voice just triggered everything what's um what's the the most annoying thing that i do hmm what's like the most annoying thing in terms of working with me what's that what's the hardest thing to deal with that i do the thing that's most irritating um i'm pretty sure actually come to mind pretty quickly and you can say you can be a sandwich yeah i know what's the most irritating thing.

[64] There's so many, I'm joking.

[65] The irritating thing, sometimes forgetfulness.

[66] Yeah, I'm very...

[67] Forgetfulness.

[68] We've had conversations about this, it's happened.

[69] This is, you know, things go move on two months later.

[70] We, from it, it's like, we had a conversation about this.

[71] I've forgotten.

[72] We've forgotten.

[73] Yeah, I think we have dementia.

[74] Yeah, probably, we might.

[75] Yeah, pretty convinced.

[76] But it's, things with them, you know, it happens.

[77] What do you think the most annoying thing that you do is?

[78] In terms of working with you?

[79] Over promise.

[80] Over promise?

[81] Why do you do, why, so.

[82] Take too much on.

[83] Maybe not a promise.

[84] Not over promise is probably wrong.

[85] Take too much on.

[86] Okay.

[87] Try and do too many things.

[88] Why is, why did you do that?

[89] Don't trust other people.

[90] I think that was a hard thing at first to get over.

[91] I always think I could do a better job than people.

[92] I also think you're a bit of a yes man. A bit of a yes man. I know I definitely was more of a yes man. Yeah, you were.

[93] Definitely more.

[94] Too much of a yes, yeah.

[95] Because I was, again, I think, trying to, I think what's always been weird is, and I've talked to a lot of people about this now is when you don't, not that you don't have a tangible output, you don't have like a I did X today or I did Y, that shift in your life of, from going, like, where I started was we're in communities and, you know, growing the pages back at Warpac.

[96] I'm going from that position.

[97] I still remember when you sat me down and we first took the investment and it must have been about a week after.

[98] And you said to me, you're not going to run any pages anymore.

[99] That was a really weird feeling.

[100] I was like, what do you mean?

[101] Of course.

[102] For context.

[103] When Dom says pages, he means Twitter pages.

[104] So when I met Dom, Don was running a bunch of Twitter pages.

[105] And yeah.

[106] Yeah, it's good.

[107] And that was very strange and then that transition between doing that way you've got like a clear result to not actually doing a tangible output but actually helping other people, growing them, doing much more leadership -oriented things.

[108] It was a very difficult transition.

[109] So on that point, do you think that entrepreneurs are made or do you think they're born?

[110] This is a question I get asked all the time.

[111] Do you think some people are born entrepreneurs or do you think you can be made into entrepreneurs?

[112] You answer first and I'll tell you the answer what I always say.

[113] I've been asked before and I always my opinion is no one's born anything a lot of life is nurture and it comes through like the early stages development so playing spa playing which things you could like any influence over it's how your parents and how you interact at school and you do develop certain traits like leadership for example which can translate into business and natural curiosity of wanting things to be done better and I think that a lot of it is nurture and then however putting yourself into a position where you run a business, you can learn it.

[114] It's a skill.

[115] I honestly think it's a skill rather than something that you're born with.

[116] Yeah, so I think, I think obviously not all you've really got to define what you mean by entrepreneur because there's a very sort of like stereotypical idea of what an entrepreneur is and it's kind of like, in my mind it's a bit of like a show pony risk taker, fearless kind of type whereas entrepreneurs are problem solvers.

[117] Yeah, and there's so many different types of entrepreneurs.

[118] So you've got like a Mark Zuckerberg who was a coder that built an amazing product and learned how to be an entrepreneur.

[119] When I say entrepreneur, we're imagining this person that's like really good with people.

[120] This is what I imagine anyway, really good with people, like a bit of an extrovert as well.

[121] Risk taker, kind of big ego, that kind of thing.

[122] Whereas really, if you look at the most successful entrepreneurs in the world, when you think about, you know, like Elon Musk's and Steve Jobs and all these, you know, they didn't start that way, but they're made into that.

[123] And from knowing you, when I met you, you were kind of a bit, I wouldn't say you were a bit shy, but only to me, right?

[124] You might shy to your friends, of course, but you're a bit shy to me in a professional sense.

[125] And I think you were low confidence.

[126] But going from there, when we met in that bar in York, I think it was a Revolutions bar, to now, has kind of answered the question for me that you can be made one.

[127] Because you can be, you know, hammered enough times and hit.

[128] and you know you can you can you can kind of teach yourself to be one which i think will give a lot a lot of people a lot of um peace of mind i guess anyone that's um maybe doesn't look like the person they want to they want to become i guess um one of one of the other questions i had was about your personal journey so just from my sort of account of knowing you we met when you were how old 20 20 i then was i was 20 as well i was 20 as well um and we've come a long way in that time.

[129] So you've had a very sort of interesting personal development journey, much more interesting than my personal development journey.

[130] You've gone from being someone that was very, very low confident to taking on great responsibility.

[131] And I would say at times in the early days, like really struggling with the stress of that.

[132] And then getting to the point where alcohol started to become a bit of a, I don't know what the word is, started to become something that would help you get out of the stresses of running a business and you know this is just my perception of the situation um and as things got harder and harder you you began to escape more but you didn't i didn't just feel like you were escaping from the job and the stresses of the job i also in some respects felt like i represented the stresses of the job so we were living together at this point and um i speak to some of my friends about this who are in similar situations where if you work with me and we're with business partners but then you also come home and live with me it's kind of like the stress comes home as well and that's kind of what it felt like at one point i think i think i think i had stress from so many angles where do you think what was your relationship i crap relationship which which one hannah which hannah you've dated three all dom's girlfriends by the way have all been called hannah in a row i think that's a psychological thing there yeah yeah but that was like i wanted to get out of that so badly and half it was just that work everything I don't I don't ever think I don't even think it was coming home to it I actually you know we had I actually enjoyed it the house was like at first was better than anywhere but then I think everything just got on top of me everything from because I hated this girl I absolutely hated this girl she was I don't we don't need to I mean there's so many girls that you've said called Hannah so not really saying which one it is but I couldn't stand this girl because she was just so anti your career and your ambitions and it was almost this competition and obviously as like the third wheel i'm it's always it's always it's always gonna happen like and like i i i wasn't i i hate thinking about it me as put like then i was just i didn't like myself i hate myself what did you hate about yourself everything how i was you know like how i was with her like i i i don't know if i said thank you for like how it ended but like basically what steve did is Steve just sorted it for me and I was I really became a person I didn't like really became a person I didn't like you said you hated yourself what did you hate by yourself I hated everything everything to do everything to do with me how I was how I looked how I was acting I was speaking really hating myself and that that when you've got this kind of like base layer of like crap going on on top of it hating yourself you know we need in position right now we need to love ourselves because we're putting ourselves through a lot of stress and a lot of stress, stress, in the right word, just a lot.

[133] And like, you need to love yourself and I hate myself.

[134] And you, at some point near the end of your relationship with this girl, you developed a, so just to set the scene, you've got this, you know, this job.

[135] And at the time, social chain was, it was still a startup and there was tremendous financial pressures.

[136] Nothing was guaranteed.

[137] We were obviously looking at the bank balance all the time trying to figure out if we were going to be able to make payday, clients, canceling, left, right, and centre because we just weren't set up to fulfill the work properly at that time.

[138] Going home every, you know, every night at midnight, 1am, 2am, 3am, unsure how you're going to pay pay day in a couple of days' time.

[139] And then you've got, you know, your girlfriends giving you a hard time.

[140] There's all these other sort of more personal pressures that you've exhibited upon yourself.

[141] And then you start developing a fairly unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

[142] Destructive.

[143] Destructive, I think it is.

[144] Destructive.

[145] We had this town, didn't we, which I used to call you drunk dorm.

[146] Yeah.

[147] And the thing is, you know, it started, you know, what social change started out, you know, we had a lot of, you know, we're struggling for paying people, but we're having a lot of wins as well.

[148] So there's a lot of things to celebrate as well as we were growing.

[149] And at first, everything started off as a celebration.

[150] You know, we all go out at weekends and have fun and that was it.

[151] And I think the more, it was quite funny because the more, you know, not many, only me and you know what it was like, you know, no one else knew at the time.

[152] what we were where we were and I think you know when we're trying to put a smile on and celebrate with everyone else and we there's things going on in the background it's like that's when you start just keeping more drink drinking more but you the relationship you had with drinking was um like nothing I'd seen before you would you would drink one beer and then if you drank one you go drink because until you just wouldn't stop there wasn't like three or five it was like it where you go and keep on and got to the point where we would lose you because you'd be at the bar ordering your own drinks and guzzling them down.

[153] And I'll never forget that night where we came home and you had the lights off and it was like 3.

[154] 3am in the morning and you were in the front room drinking a bottle of wine with the lights off and I just got home.

[155] And I think that was maybe the start of me realizing, well, me thinking like this isn't normal.

[156] What was that whole period like for you?

[157] What was the, did you have a, did you consciously think alcohol was helping?

[158] That's what I always wondered.

[159] Did you realize, or was it a very sort of unconscious thing?

[160] It was totally unconscious.

[161] Like I say, it started, everything for, like, it started off as a celebration.

[162] You know, we'd go out, we'd go in neighbourhood every weekend, we'd celebrate.

[163] And, like, by, like, drink four, drink five, when I'm gone, you don't realize anything, because you don't think anything.

[164] Yeah.

[165] And then I just, whenever else was celebrating, I remember the neighbourhood opening, we went with me, you, Alex, someone else sat upstairs.

[166] And I just, you know, everyone else was celebrating, neighbourhood opening, but I've got this pressure of, like, crumbling on me, like, oh, God, I'm thinking about everything.

[167] I'm not, I'm not there.

[168] I'm not actually there in the moment with you guys.

[169] I'm just sat there drinking my drink, drinking it quickly, getting this feeling of going a little bit numb, making myself go numb.

[170] And just I wanted to get away from everyone.

[171] I didn't want to get away from anyone in particular, but I work.

[172] I just wanted to get away.

[173] I wanted to go off by myself.

[174] I wanted to be in my own little space because...

[175] Did you ever think about quitting?

[176] I thought about selling.

[177] I wanted to set...

[178] You know, when the offers started...

[179] This is a strange.

[180] When the offers started to come in and people were interested in to buy, of course, head was turned.

[181] And I was like, all right, you know, this, we should sell.

[182] And I know I was very pro us selling to some people that came in in the early days because it was a way out.

[183] And I was like, okay, if I get the security of selling some, you know, the shares and then I'm all right, I can sort myself out, I feel like I've completed something.

[184] And kind of in the back of mind, I knew, you know, if you did to do that, I could then stop myself out.

[185] What would you do?

[186] What was your plan?

[187] I had no plan because I just know I wanted something and I was like, I was seeking, seeking something to myself.

[188] And when this is when I was drinking, like I've said to a million times, but once I stop drinking and now every single time I get an offer, I don't care about it.

[189] You know, it's, but in that moment there, and then I was seeking, like, I don't know what I was looking for.

[190] I was just looking for something.

[191] Like the one, when the hook group wanted to buy us, I was, you know, I just snapped the hands off then because it would have meant security.

[192] And then so you get out of this, toxic relationship um as you alluded to it wasn't uh it wasn't it didn't happen easily did it um i remember you telling me one night you said right steve i'm going to go i'm going to go meet her and i'm going to go and end it and then you went um met her you're out for four or five hours i sat home waiting you came back and you were still in the relationship and in fact she managed to convince you that you were the problem and that in fact your career was so selfish that she was the victim yeah and so you came back really upset about what you had done to her by having this career um and i think again that for me it was just another sign that you you weren't really in control of the situation yeah i wasn't i wasn't i was in control of my own emotions i weren't in control of the relationship and i'm i know it sounds stupid but i like i hate that person i see i see him now in other people and like i drunk dorm that that guy you know so even in sober when he was in relationship and i just look and think how how how how how you like that when there's it's so obvious you're in a bad relationship it's so obvious you've got a problem and because of being through that obviously but it's it's so obvious to see now but the time you're just so gazed with everything that you just you don't know you write from wrong you've got all these voices in your head you don't know what's going on with you you're not you're not happy with anything you're not happy with yourself you're not happy with your relationship no one's like no one's like making you feel good you're putting so much pressure with yourself and you know something's got to change at that point and you um because you were in that state where you were struggling with these external things i really just from hearing you now it's evidence it's sort of clear that that's why you lost control of that romantic relationship yeah in the sense that you would you were almost quite submissive to this person and she was quite naturally a bit of a manipulator.

[193] So I remember the day after you'd, I think, finally broken up with her, and she calls you on the phone and she says, if you don't leave work right now and come and see me, I'm going to crash my car.

[194] And she's driving on the motorway.

[195] And then she screams.

[196] She screams and she hangs up the phone to make it seem like she crashed.

[197] And obviously you're very upset by that, as everybody would be because, you know, you believe this person.

[198] But she was really playing to this guy that wasn't in control of himself, and she knew that.

[199] Yeah.

[200] And then, so what we did that day, Honestly, I'd already banned her from everywhere.

[201] She was banned from the house.

[202] She was banned from the office.

[203] Because, you know, I just thought she was a bad, bad influence.

[204] I always felt really guilty.

[205] I'll be honest.

[206] I always felt really guilty because I'm a bit of a control for it, as you'll know.

[207] Like, I'm very controlling when it comes to a lot of things.

[208] And I was always really worried that I was controlling you.

[209] That's how it felt sometimes.

[210] I felt like I was, I'm like, is this just me controlling Dom?

[211] No. Because when I first met her, we will have stayed in Lisa's floor.

[212] Yeah.

[213] So I was like, I met a girl.

[214] She lives in a mansion.

[215] I can stay at her house, you know, I can, like, get a bit of a base.

[216] And I was like, this sounds like a good idea, you know, not that leases.

[217] So for context, when Don met this girl, me and Don were basically homeless.

[218] Yeah.

[219] And in the sense that we were, we'd moved out of our place and we were looking for somewhere to live.

[220] Yeah.

[221] So, yeah, so, and, you know, a latch to that, I look for any kind of, like, stable base.

[222] And I was like, I fell into it.

[223] I was like, this got a house, I can stay there, I can, I can do something, you know.

[224] And she, so she ended up, she made, she gave her those phone calls where she, you know, she threatens to kill herself.

[225] You obviously get very upset.

[226] We say to you, listen, go, go to Thailand today, literally booked the flight, went to the airport that day, you just flew away.

[227] Because you're men had gone on holiday with her, weren't you, to Africa.

[228] You flew away.

[229] Talk to me about the day that you quit alcohol and how that happened.

[230] Or what made you quit?

[231] Yeah.

[232] In the end.

[233] So, I think.

[234] I was always a danger for myself, which I could deal with.

[235] I knew, I broke my, I damaged my uncle one night, and I was hurting myself, you know, I remember my birthday, this is like, my birthday went out, my birthday was on Sunday, went on, right on the Saturday, I spent the entire Sunday in our cinema room, which is pitch black, no lights, just there in the dark, and you guys came in and asked you for, I wanted to go to town for, to Bar and Grill, I said, no, I'd stay in, And that for me was like a moment And I was like, what?

[236] It's my birthday.

[237] And I'm just sat in this black room, hungover, not seeing anyone.

[238] And I was like, that's when I really started to think, what the hell am I doing myself?

[239] And then a couple of incidents happened when I was still doing damage to myself, but I wasn't doing damage to people.

[240] I thought, you know, well, as long as it's not too bad, you know, no one's, I don't think people were catching on.

[241] enough obviously people knew and then um i'd say i'd be honest i had quick drugs first you know that i got that out of my life i was like i don't need that um and i thought that was a problem what drugs what drugs um coke right doing coke you know um and i felt that was a problem i thought that was the problem so i got rid of that and let you know i'm not i don't need that that's not me. For a bit of time, maybe it's my head I got better, but I don't think I did.

[242] And then went to the races, alcohol -fueled day.

[243] I got back about 8 o 'clock, middle of the day, to Piccolinos in Aldly Edge.

[244] And I just went in there, started sealing bottles and wine off people's tables, generally just disruptive, shouting at people.

[245] in front of some of the team and then realized that got thrown out, started walking down the street, shouting again at other people, you know, just for how can they throw me out?

[246] And then, yes, I regretfully, probably the worst moment of my life said things to someone who I probably considered to be one of my closest friends.

[247] And so when that works in the team?

[248] Someone that works in the team.

[249] Very good, very good friend of mine who's been here since day one.

[250] I care about deeply.

[251] And waking up that morning, finding out what I said to him, and the manner of which I acted towards him, he was only trying to help me. He was actually trying to get me to bed, take me home.

[252] What did you say to him?

[253] To this day, I can't remember.

[254] Did you know what the topic was?

[255] Yeah, I know what topic was, yeah.

[256] Was it about his performance within this?

[257] the team.

[258] It was about his performance in the team and his perception from other people and me saying things about that and I on hearing the demeanour of the conversation I had with him I drunk would completely drunk you know this is like Steve said this is drunk on this isn't me I realized that I'm hurting other people yeah so just from my perspective because I was um I was also out and about that and I just went for some dinner with some friends and obviously there's two there was two different doms there was the the dom in work who's the you know the super nice guy the the team player the the calm collected funny guy at times I'd say the butt of the joke as well but predominantly the reason why you're the butt of the joke amongst even some of the team was because of the other dom yep and obviously when you're less secure in yourself you kind of make yourself the butt of the joke and you've been that guy for a while and then there was this other dom which was the drunk dom which because of how out of hand it was getting was doing damage to real world dom and the problem we have when we're trying to lead people is um we need to we like leadership is a given thing people give it to you and if they don't respect you because of how you're acting in work or out of work you cannot lead people and so this was the and so i was at dinner at sir kana i think it's a restaurant in manchester and started getting texts from people in the team saying um it was alex and sam that texting me sing let's and dom's out of control he's did a He's been kicked out of Piccolinos.

[259] He's walking down the street.

[260] He's just said something to somebody.

[261] And I think that was the first moment when we had a conversation, which was really, really not pleasant.

[262] And I remember on texting you and you texting me saying that, you know, you were absolutely wasted, but you were saying that you wanted to sell.

[263] And I remember that moment thinking it hit me like a ton of bricks because although I was like, I was so pissed off in the moment, I was like, fuck you, whatever.

[264] I was also like, that's pretty serious.

[265] if you're at the point where even drunk version of you is like it wants to once out because that's what you're saying you wanted out i was like that's pretty fucking serious and i want it out because i couldn't i didn't think i could deal with it and what what are the you know you you do so much now um on things like mental health issues and your recovery from from you know drinking too much i guess and the way you've progressed what do you did you have mental health issues and if you did what were they because i know mental health is a very broad thing it's not necessarily depression or anxiety what it is but mental health as i've come to understand through my own sort of education of it is such a broad thing from you know oCD to hoarding like what are the the mental health issues you think you've had yeah i had i i i had anxiety that was like what i was what did that feel like imagine imagine you've you're talking to yourself and you're talking yourself out of talking yourself out of everything yeah you don't like for a big example so um because i always wonder if i've got anxiety you have everyone has yeah everyone has but it flares up and you and so why i learned as how to manage it right to notice when you're having moments of being i feel anxious right and what to do in their moments and just to be aware that you you have it because i never talk to me about it i never knew what anxiety was what how does it feel what's the um how does it feel um Something's pressing on your mind, and you know you need to talk someone about it, but you put it off because you don't think it's the right time.

[266] You want to get them in a different situation.

[267] Take, for example, like a client not paying, you'll hold that information to yourself.

[268] Try and solve it yourself, but you'll not get anyone else involved.

[269] You'll lock it away until it's a point where either it's got so far out of hand that you need someone to come in to help you.

[270] Or you've solved it and it can go away.

[271] Is it like a feeling, though?

[272] Is it a feeling like of nervousness or anxiousness?

[273] Yeah, it's, yeah, you get it.

[274] Because sometimes I get this real, when I've got something on my mind, and I'm like, I've compartmentalised it a little bit, and I start feeling like super anxious.

[275] I think, like, almost like a kind of, almost the feeling like that I get just before I go up on stage, I get that for a while in my, like, in my insides.

[276] So I had that, that's what you get.

[277] but naturally what I do is I take on too many things so when you've got these you're just adding to the fucking you're not solving it and like some small thing that made a big difference to me like at work was like getting a calendar you know we didn't have a calendar for the first two years we were just roping stuff getting a wonder list you know learning how to deal with the problems put in front of you small changes makes such a big difference but the main thing was when you get that feeling of being anxious solving it and I had to write down like every single time I felt anxious over a problem and then say what I thought the outcome was going to be.

[278] So, for example, if someone asked for a pay rise and you, you don't know how to react because it gets this anxious in your head because you're thinking about pay days coming off, we haven't got enough money to pay people, and you start thinking about a million things before you can even go back to them and say, this is where we're at.

[279] And they pile on top of each other.

[280] They trial on top of each other.

[281] And then making all of them great and some of their parts.

[282] I was drinking and I was forgetting about them over the week.

[283] Then you sober up.

[284] Then you sober up and you're like, it gets on top of you.

[285] Got you.

[286] So that's interesting for me. And that's just work things and there's life things as well.

[287] You know, you look at yourself, you look at how you, in social.

[288] So this is a weird one.

[289] So I get a small dose of like social anxiety where, and it comes up more when I'm drunk, that's why I go off by myself.

[290] Because sometimes I don't know what to say to people in conversation.

[291] Because I think, because you've got everything going on back in mind, sometimes you're just a blank person.

[292] like you'll be there in social situations but you won't be there because you mind will be gone away and you're like I don't know what to say to people because I've got these million things I'm thinking about so I don't want to appear socially awkward so I'm just going to leave so you never really spoke to me about that feeling yeah why I don't speak to anyone about it I've not the only person I spoke to about it was the guy I was seeing I spent so long trying to understand myself I'm still not there no one ever gets there and it's like understanding the triggers you have, how you are.

[293] When you say the guy you're saying, you mean after you quit drinking, you went and sought help, etc. from somebody.

[294] But you never, you never, I was sat next to you this whole time while you were feeling these things.

[295] Think about, why didn't you just turn to me and say, this is how I'm feeling?

[296] It's really tough and I'm, you know.

[297] I think it's for the same reason a lot of guys don't speak.

[298] Why is that?

[299] feeling adequate don't feel like you're up for it and feel like you can solve it yourself you don't need help that that kind of whole thing you know I can get through this you know I'm not sign of showing weakness I think that did you did you not think that I had any weaknesses or what was your perception of what how I was dealing with all these things I thought I always thought you were so good at like putting them to back your mind that they weren't there and I don't know I don't know I thought I don't know I thought I don't know I don't know.

[300] I think I was just so caught up on myself worrying about them that I didn't, you know, you were the first person to tell me to talk to something about it.

[301] I didn't even think, I didn't even know I should have talked to speak something about it.

[302] It's really interesting.

[303] I thought, I thought my, me as a person, I didn't know I needed help.

[304] You told me I needed help.

[305] Okay, so let's go back to that day then.

[306] So the day after you get very drunk, you wake up, you realize you've damaged a few things, a few relationships, etc. um i messaged you and i said let's meet at the office and we met at the office and we had a conversation um a very private honest conversation in which we talked about um you know we were very honest for the first time ever i think and i think the only thing that stopped me on that day being mad at the damage you did because the way i always felt was like drunk don would create a mess for me to clear up yeah and the only thing that stopped me being mad on that day at all was just how honest you were about your situation it was the first time that was the first time where you were actually honest yeah about how you're feeling and you can't be mad at somebody when they tell you that they've been you know struggling with some stuff and that they want to get a grip of it and that they want to you know so that was and then from there you you know you said I told you needed to see a guy I can't really remember that I certainly didn't make you go and see it so you get all the credit for that no and I think um like I said the first time I hurt someone else I think I could I could deal with hurting myself but hurting someone else but hurting someone else that that's not me and it's not complete contrast to who i am as a person i don't i don't hurt people you know i'm i'm not i'm not that and i think that that bit on me knowing that i've done that damage of someone and alongside like actually speaking to someone about it for the first time being told by my best friend that something's not right with you is like that hits all in the space of 24 hours and you know you you know that's the lowest point and that that low point that day is like the day I never want I kept using that feeling how I felt that day as I'm never going back there I'm never feeling like that again and the thing the thing that's I've always wanted to to hear from you from is um entrepreneurship and being you know let's use that full letter word the boss and all these things and um being you know the CEO and in charge is something that's glamourized um on social media, in movies, in magazines, in culture in general.

[307] There's this obsession with, you know, being the entrepreneur.

[308] The association is that you were on private jets and you've got jet skis and all the money you want and the biggest smile in the world.

[309] But there's another story which nobody tells you about.

[310] What is that other story from your perspective?

[311] That other story is like almost the reality.

[312] It's almost, you know, you do see the private jet.

[313] you do see that but you don't see the actual work that goes into getting there and I think the reason the entrepreneur is this flamboyant person is because what they learn through the journey they learn to become like you say you learn to become that type of person and through going through hard times what are the hard times hard times what are the hard times what are god why do you start hard times um questioning whether this is like constantly questioning whether this is the right thing that you're doing you know we how many times have we changed course of who we are as a business you know it's taken us two three years to find our identity here's one of the hard times that i think you just mentioned there as well just to add is being the the buck stops with you so if you come this is one of the things that i've learned that this is the first sort of challenge i think the entrepreneurial gods give you they say everybody's problem is your problem as well as your existing problem yeah and unfortunately you can't pass it to anybody um and also because you're in charge nobody's going to tell you what to do or how to handle it um which is also one of the you know perceived upsides of being an entrepreneur nobody tells you what to do but also you know at moments where you've got a you know a 25 year old um guy or girl come to you with some serious problems whilst you're dealing with your clients you know massive client problems and then massive financial problems and then massive personal problems and then more of the same repeated the same day and then every single person adds another problem to the mix and everyone adds one more to the it's almost as a conveyor belt that comes to your desk that's one thing i said to the guy when i was seeing him you know every time we'd celebrate winning a contract or a new person would start that was like another layer on top it was more worry you know the more people we got in the team the more people we had to pay my money had to make the more issues and the growth of it the growth of social chain so quickly and the amount of people we got in the amount of clients we won the minute we want as soon as we want a client my first thought was god how are we going to do how are we going to be able to deliver this what happens if it goes wrong we you know we've got a lot of a lot of back on this being a success and then you know another thing would happen you get more people on top and then And like Steve said, you said you've got your personal stuff as well.

[314] And it's...

[315] I just remember those days.

[316] I mean, I've talked on my podcast before about that day when we got hacked.

[317] And, you know, we had all of our clients at one point basically tell us they were going to leave.

[318] We had a team waiting who would just want, you know, we're waiting to go into paintball.

[319] And we had to tell them, but we had to try and fight to convince our clients that we didn't hack.

[320] You know, it wasn't us that had sent them those malicious emails, et cetera.

[321] And then I remember that day, you know, someone in the team's boyfriend had dumped them.

[322] and they were in a terrible state and they needed picking off of the floor.

[323] You know, your clients would be picking off off the floor.

[324] You've got, you know, family issues at home and all these things going on.

[325] And you are 23 years old, like at these times.

[326] Yeah.

[327] You're 23 years old.

[328] You're barely trying to figure out the world to yourself and you're being forced to be significantly beyond your years without the qualifications or without the stress.

[329] And so one thing that I've learned is how much it changes you.

[330] And I've seen you change.

[331] It's hard to see yourself change, but I can, I know what old Steve was like.

[332] And I also know what Dom's like.

[333] And the change I've seen in you is probably more drastic.

[334] Going from that, that kid that I met in that Revolutions bar to the like the weathered, um, tough, hard, uh, very, very, very impatient, I'd say now with when it comes to bullshit.

[335] Um, a very, very low tolerance for bullshit.

[336] or people bullshit, people that are causing problems or that are egotistical or that are doing things with bad intentions.

[337] Your reaction now is you very much want to wash your hands with them very quickly.

[338] You're probably more impatient in that regard than I am.

[339] And it's just interesting how in three years you can change so much, the very sort of character of who you are because of the experience that you put yourself in.

[340] But I just want to take you back to, so on that day, you know, this is this is the moment your life changes in your own words.

[341] the day that you sit down and you admit you're struggling and you say you're going to go see this guy and you said you're going to go quit drinking honestly didn't believe you of course I didn't believe you I'd known drunk done for so long for my whole you know my whole life working with you and you know being friends with you that's the only guy I'd known so I didn't see how you would do that um but here we are how long has it been now what month January 19 19 months 19 months yeah 19 months 19 months without a drop of alcohol, ran multiple marathons.

[342] You've lost, I don't know, you're probably skinnier than me now, which is concerning.

[343] Healthier than ever, transformed in sense of your leadership skills, total respect from everyone in the team and beyond.

[344] People that don't, you don't know this, but people that didn't respect you then are literally intimidated by you now.

[345] And we've got a mutual friend, who I won't name, but he literally told me this weekend, he was like, Domain's, like, intimidating now.

[346] You went from being this, the joke in the group to being the you know the so good at leadership that you're intimidating people talk to me about that journey from the start meeting this guy what he taught you what he taught me he so i said i said it was always like lessons all right he gave me the he asked me the questions which made me i always frame it he made me think about myself he asked me questions that i've never had been asked before about family, about relationships, about work.

[347] And he made me think.

[348] And I first understood what I was going through.

[349] It took him about 50 minutes of me talking at him to say, okay, this is what you've got, this is what you're dealing with, this is how we're going to, like, get over it.

[350] And the minute he told me what I had, and he said the word anxiety, things that had fall into place, I was like, okay, this is, this is why.

[351] this all makes sense now and it was he just made me think about myself he made me, gave me confidence gave me some ways of getting over it what did you learn about yourself from him?

[352] Where's to start?

[353] You learn your triggers you learn you learn you learn I lost who I was and I won't forget when I used to go home to York to see my parents my mum was just to be completely different with me and telling this guy all these things about like the smaller things about my mum not like wanted to see me and you know um how family think you change as well um makes you think like that's not me as a person and then i went he sat down with me and said like look what what do you think your values are what do you want to be known for who do who do you want to be in five years what do you want people to think of you and we kind of did that exercise and then he said to me what you need to do then is all your actions have to sit within your values so if you don't think something aligns with who you want to be or how you want to perceive you can't do it not you can't do it but you shouldn't do it because it's not who you are so I had a real big session with him where we just spoke about what I was known for growing up how I was how I thought people perceived me and he said look that's who you are you're still that person you just lost him and it was really hard It's really hard, like, hearing that you, like, because my mum said that to me, that she feels like she's lost me as well, which was really hard to hear.

[354] And then, yeah, I think through that, it comes down to your personality.

[355] So loads of people who told me they're going to give up drinking.

[356] Loads people who told me they want to do try January and fail.

[357] But really, you know, you've said it as well.

[358] You said it to me, and it always resonates with me. It's like the, I can't remember it off the top of my head, you'll jump in it.

[359] But change any occurs when the pain of staying, the same is greater than the pain of making a change and you said that to me you said that to me I can't remember what you saw a number of times um and that was that was something I always resonated with me and I was like okay that's never that feeling that I feel that that morning waking up I'm never having that feeling ever again I'm getting past that I'm never going to be there again and I was just so spurred on by who I think I want to be what my values are and never letting myself getting into that position of feeling like that ever again who do you want to be in what are your values um so I've okay going back to what when I was younger I was always really active and really sporty that was something that I really love I always loved doing that I always saw myself as loads of friends loads of people that really liked in social situations which I started to lose and then as well I guess one thing is that I always I always saw myself as really ambitious and I really always saw myself as someone who takes on challenges and solves them, solves them but also overcomes them.

[360] And I turned it into a game for myself.

[361] I turned it into self that I out -calls the enemy and Al -calls the opponent from sport, you're going to beat it.

[362] And that's how I framed it.

[363] And who I wanted to be is I wanted to be I've got this image of my head.

[364] I've always had it.

[365] I've always, like, looked a couple of years forward of this kind of perception of this person of who I am.

[366] Describing.

[367] Not far off what I am now.

[368] I've got, obviously the journey is never complete, but I'm in just nearly under two years' time, I've been transformed into this person who, when I was sat there, hung over after doing what I did, this is who i want to be i don't i don't know how you've done it to be honest honestly i i i guess it must be the pain of staying the same or something but it takes to not drink for 19 months when you're your age despite everybody pressuring you go and have you know go and have a drink and then and then to do the running thing as well i'm like christ not drinking but then to run marathons every bloody other day and to run you i think you ran like 12 was it 12k yesterday yeah 12k yesterday i was like i was in bed like watching Netflix with my dog and you're out there running at like bloody 2 a .m in the morning.

[369] I don't know where you get that that like drive to I guess you know I don't know to it must have like because some you know it's people they'll want to make a change and it will last a month and they'll be like you know back to my old ways so it's pretty tremendous that you've been able to completely shift the course of your life for a sustained period of time I think yeah and I think it's only in hindsight you start realizing how dark things got like i'll never forget and this is i haven't told i've only told one person this because um i had a very open conversation with someone who's a friend um who was going through things as well and he asked me um have you ever thought about it and i went thought about what and he went killing yourself and i said i said no i've never sat there and thought okay i'm going to kill myself never thought about that but sometimes you know and this would be completely saying it when the train's coming past the station you just think oh what if what if I jumped you know oh I'd be all right and I had I had that thought with a couple of things was that at low times or was that that was low that was the low time that was that was a low time going on to London I'd sit there and think found on the station what happens if I jump what happens if I jump who would miss me what happened and honestly I had that a couple of times and it's only when you like all these things I'm saying have always only been in hindsight like understanding my anxiety and understanding my triggers and understanding what sets me off and I've only been discovered in hindsight when I know about myself so when you you have that such a contrast of who you were versus the path you're on now you'll do everything you can just move forward and not go back And how important was taking that first step just to go and speak to somebody because it is incredibly hard.

[370] I think, you know, it's people, you know, people often think, you know, I don't speak to somebody about the way I'm feeling because I want to be brave.

[371] But for me, there is nothing braver than being like, holding my hand up and saying, do you know what, I need to speak to somebody.

[372] I couldn't, I really wonder if I went through some serious, like, mental health issues, would I be a. able to go and speak to somebody, I don't think I'm that brave.

[373] Just because of the stigma, it's a terrible shame.

[374] But, you know, speaking to you about it, that's what, we spoke about it.

[375] And that was me talking about it.

[376] And I think if I can say it to you, you know, I've said it.

[377] I've said it now.

[378] But how important was it, though, to go and speak to somebody about it?

[379] because you've referenced before that it was the most important thing it was the most you know it was the biggest most important first thing was find you know someone telling me something's wrong something's telling me someone who knows me better than anyone telling me that something's wrong that was the most important thing in my life the start was you admitting it though wasn't it the start was that day you admitted it yeah but yourself i think i admit to myself yeah and i admit it to you but you know you we spoke about it you you know you it wouldn't have happened if you didn't happen but then the second part of that was then acting upon that and having a conversation with someone who knows what we I said the same thing to him that said to you you know that day same I said exactly how I felt and he can put it into a structure that helps me overcome it so one of the things I always wanted to speak to you about is money so we talk about how you know not having money is in terms of paying your staff and you know cash flow issues and all these things which we went through for a good 18 months nonstop of you know like probably five months in a row where we're just like I have no idea I remember that one month where we looked at the bank account and payday was just around the corner I think a week away there is no money in the bank but there is a team to pay and there's many many bills to pay probably I don't know 70 60 70 thousand pounds worth of bills to pay in a week's time no money in the bank and just that mad scramble to sell something Which we did, and we always seem to get past it.

[380] Sorry?

[381] And get them to pay, yeah.

[382] We could sell some rich.

[383] Then paying was a different story.

[384] This is such a funny story.

[385] We managed to sell to a company at the time, a campaign.

[386] And one of the KPIs was there would be a trigger payment if we hit a certain objective.

[387] And we're very good at our jobs, and we've always been good at social media.

[388] I mean, it's why social chain exists.

[389] But the objective, basically to save social chain in hindsight, was getting them to be the number one trending topic.

[390] in the country so it was really if this brand doesn't become the number one trending topic in the country we fail we fell that that is the truth that's the crux of it isn't it i remember you messaging me then this has to happen we have to we have to make them the number one trending topic in the country or it's goodbye i think that's the last campaign i did is it right yeah because we probably one of the last times i've sold because i think it was the last i remember we were in the white room there um and it was I think it was me and Hannah who stayed late to do it and we were like this has to happen and Hannah was so shocked when I celebrated and I celebrated I'm you know probably not since tippy tap that I celebrated like we'd you know That's just unbelievable We just done it I remember I think you're in London won't you I can't remember but I remember messaging the client The next day and be like hey we did it Can you send the money please But anyway moving on So the point I was going to make is Okay so not having money in a business Is tremendously stressful But what about on the opposite side of it being, you know, 22 years old at the time when we first started getting a little bit of money and it wasn't even a tremendous amount of money.

[391] It was just more money than we needed, right?

[392] Yeah, you got spare.

[393] How did having too much money impact you?

[394] I guess...

[395] And does the money make you happy?

[396] No, money doesn't make me happy.

[397] It doesn't make me happy.

[398] What it does, it gives you freedom.

[399] You know, having money, it's disposable money, you can do things.

[400] And we were partying.

[401] That's what we did.

[402] But what was the, was it, was it all, is it all upside?

[403] No. What's the downside?

[404] So for me, and this is kind of what I was, I was alluding to, I guess, was I guess a bit of a sense of anti -climax.

[405] Yeah.

[406] Thinking, I remember we had a conversation in the old flat where I, I think me and you realized that we were not motivated by money because I remember standing to and saying, this was before social chain was a company really.

[407] and it was in the sort of gap between wall park and social chain.

[408] I remember saying to there's 20, 30 ,000 pounds worth of business in my emails.

[409] If I just go downstairs and send an email, then we make the money, but I just can't be asked.

[410] Because I'm not, because 20, another, you know, a couple of grand isn't going to make me happy.

[411] So there's no motivation to do it.

[412] But, and what that taught me in that moment when we had that conversation is that I don't do this for the money.

[413] I mean, now when we sign big deals and, you know, we sign major clients, I'm tremendous.

[414] happy, but the reason isn't because of the money.

[415] No, no. It's, and that's what I came to learn.

[416] The thing from that conversation, which stayed with me, is I think, and I'm just going to be completely honest, at the time you were pursuing a girl.

[417] Do you remember this?

[418] You're pursuing a girl.

[419] I know exactly who you mean.

[420] Yeah.

[421] From York.

[422] Yeah.

[423] I know exactly who you mean, yeah.

[424] And she, and I think, because you thought that money was the enabler of all possibilities, which is what I say the anti -climax, what I mean.

[425] You thought money basically, when you're going to grow up, you think it gets you everything.

[426] Yeah.

[427] But you couldn't get this girl.

[428] And you were putting pressure on yourself because you're like, well, I've got some money now.

[429] I'm not a huge amount of money, just a couple of, you know.

[430] You weren't a student anymore.

[431] You weren't a broke student anymore.

[432] But you thought that the money would get you the girl.

[433] Yeah.

[434] And because it wasn't getting you the girl, you were struggling with that.

[435] Yeah.

[436] And I think you completely right.

[437] You know, you think the money, the money side of things are success.

[438] You know, that's like an open door.

[439] but it only exposes cracks in who you are as a person and I think that that's the way you know you see about one of the I'm so glad that I managed to make a bit of money when I was younger because it teaches you about yourself it teaches you about what you value it teaches you about what you want in life and right now it doesn't make a difference because I wasn't happy then I know I wasn't happy then you know I went through a year of not being happy with myself obviously and no amount of money would have changed me it would have destroyed me what makes you happy what makes me happy now the number one thing that makes me happy is like seeing other people happy and that comes from like seeing them here progress seeing them here um do things so every time like today we've had such great day with good news i'm so glad that people are winning and it's like we've we've built an environment here where people can can do that i think that that's what makes me the most satisfaction now still want to sell why no this is this is this this this is me I think I was like I don't know I didn't I saw the work stress as the enemy but then you know they had the girlfriend in one year at the time but then I realized that this is this social chain you know I'm this is me you know it's everyone who built it this is our purpose and I think I needed to I learned that I learned that I don't know why I didn't know it but I learned that that this is like everything I'm doing is for this this is who we are I think I think it's it's important to note that through all the hard times I obviously went through the hard times too and I never I think the only thing I think that one question I want to ask I want it to ask you that I'm not is like like I always assume you dealt with it by switching off and forgetting and like same way I did so I was thinking you know I get drunk and I party you would always go to your bed and you'd watch YouTube videos and you forget about it that way how did you do with it?

[440] I think that I think it comes I think a lot of it, and I've only learnt this from speaking to you now I think it comes from your inner dialogue and that person that speaks to you in your head and I think so I think you know we talked about it's important that you go and talk to somebody you're talking to someone the whole time you're talking to yourself and whatever that person's saying back to you will shape your perspective on the situation and only in hindsight do I think now the guy that was talking back to me was very good at rationalising everything and he he was so he he had such an innate self -belief that he probably wasn't that scared of failure so to him it was all a bit of a game as opposed to it being real life and although as you know as the business grew there was more real consequences I just never thought it was going to go bad I never believed it was going to go wrong even in that you know and then i talked you now about being addicted to the hard times i think the guy talking because i felt it i felt the tough days the moments thinking i literally have have had so many moments in those in those early stages where i think wow what the fuck like today is so bad surely there is no human being that can deal with this and not break like i've literally said that to myself i'm like this is the worst day ever you couldn't make this up but that's the kind of tone that i'm taking in my head it's like this is so fucking you know what I mean it's not like oh my god I can't deal with this it's oh my god this day this is this is there's no way you can make this day well and then someone would come in or send me an email and make it well and I'd go there you go this is the fucking this is but I'd also that voice would be like this is the test yeah it would be like it would be asking me back can you deal with this and then you know all you got to do is get over one small little bump and then you can do a little bit bigger one and then you keep doing that for a couple of years you can do hills and mountains and then you almost feel a sense of like invincibility I think at a point you become better and better rationalising bullshit and i've seen the same in you where the news you you can take today results in very little reaction versus if i'd given you that news three two years ago you would have taken that shit home you would have been thinking about it all night you probably would have had a glass wine so you almost become this is why i say the word like numb and weathered yeah we're both fucking a bit fucking haggard here do you know i mean honestly i've got no emotion i've got no no i don't you mean i don't get excited i don't get sad.

[441] That's an interesting thing.

[442] I said this on the podcast about you just stay in the middle.

[443] You get the best news in the world, you go amazing.

[444] But you don't feel shit.

[445] No, you don't feel anything.

[446] And then you get the worst news in the world, you think, oh, fuck.

[447] You don't feel anything.

[448] And you don't feel shit.

[449] And because you realize that it's much more, much healthier for you, but also the people around you, for you to just be unmoved.

[450] Yeah.

[451] And that's where the running comes in.

[452] So you talk about like, you had that person telling you can go more, you can do more, I didn't have that, my person was telling me, oh, but what about this, what about this, you know what I mean?

[453] So many, like, what ifs and asking myself more questions.

[454] And, like, from the running, you realize that, like, I always say running is a mental battle.

[455] You can do that, you can do that, you know, you can keep, keep going.

[456] Keep going, keep going, keep going.

[457] And that's like, that fell into, that kind of got me through, through everything that you just keep going.

[458] It's, you know, everything's fine.

[459] So you've come from, you've come from, so you've kind of traced your whole journey, You've come from a kid in York in a bar in York who's very, very nervous, not really speaking much.

[460] You've gone through that process of dealing with the pressure that you were given by the nature of this lifestyle.

[461] Struggling to cope with that, struggling to cope with that.

[462] Speaking out about your struggle, overcoming the destructive side of you, burying drunk dom.

[463] Coming out the other side where you've now turned it into a positive thing, you have a blog, you're raising money for charity, you're one of the most vocal people in terms of mental health issues and mental sort of awareness that I know now.

[464] You use every opportunity you can to use your sort of platform to talk on those topics.

[465] You're raising money currently for Calm.

[466] For Calm charity, which is, what's Calm?

[467] Calm is the campaign against living miserably.

[468] It is focused on raising awareness of male suicide.

[469] suicide.

[470] Met suicide is the number one killer of men under the age of 45.

[471] And obviously, suicide comes from guys not speaking out, having internalised and not their problems and, you know, looking for a way out.

[472] And that's what suicide is quite bluntly is people's a scape route.

[473] It's how they end their problems.

[474] Yeah.

[475] And you've talked about how, you know, you absolutely love the job now.

[476] I think we've both come out the other end in a way.

[477] You know, we weathered the storm the tough, tough times where most people would quit or they'd fail and we've come out the other end and it's almost this like the promised land where, you know, we're on these pastures, there's like unicorns and there's obviously all the bullshit every day but it's nothing compared to the shit we went through so it seems like we're in fucking, you know, heaven or whatever.

[478] But what does the future look like for you?

[479] What are your big ambitions personally within social chain, etc?

[480] Future like.

[481] I think, you know, as I said, this social chain, I feel like it's me. I feel like this is my purpose.

[482] This is who I am.

[483] This is like, you know, I look around with the people here.

[484] You know, I feel like this is, this is a family we've built.

[485] I want this, aren't this place to just go to where we want it to go.

[486] I want it to create the world, the world, which, you know, I want unicorns for everyone, I guess.

[487] Unicons for everybody.

[488] Unicons for everyone.

[489] Unicons for everybody here.

[490] You've heard it first.

[491] But I think that's, you know, we know where we're going on.

[492] a on a company level.

[493] I think that's also helped me a lot because really at first we never had a plan.

[494] We kind of winged it and I think that that was something that caused always a lot of discomfort.

[495] We didn't know ourselves who we were and I think that that always kept me up questioning like where are we going?

[496] What is this business?

[497] Is it a business?

[498] I think we when we decided on the media change, social change split in my head it made a lot more sense as like this is who we are now.

[499] This is like a question like what we're actually doing here.

[500] Like what is the business.

[501] So you've got more clarity over what the business is, where it's going, what its importance in the world.

[502] We've obviously got an incredible group of people here.

[503] I think this is probably the most understated part of why social chain is so good, but also why we're so much happier is because we now have real, mature, incredibly effective, talented people in key roles.

[504] And these people are smarter than we are, better than we are.

[505] They fill all of our weaknesses and more.

[506] teach us how to be better entrepreneurs and leaders and managers and teammates and we learned that from we learned that because we you know you're your control very I'm I don't like handing things over to people but we had to learn to learn we had to learn that we can't do everything and that we're not the best at doing everything and I think that you know when I was like you know when you first met me I was in a suit and I thought when you talked to me about somebody run the business you have this idea of someone who's who does everything and is very you know what everyone thinks for someone who runs the businesses but reality is it's like great people great people great people run the business great people great people you know that's how what builds an amazing business it's a definition of a company isn't a group of people yeah and that's it's not down to any individuals or down to anything it's about having a great cohesive working family start 11 family yeah person where I want to go personally I'm very happy I know I've been very happy with who I am right now I've got a couple of things I want to do I've still found a relationship as well and I really like her she works here at social chain and this is this is the moment when I knew I wasn't just controlling you because I like her and I don't interfere in your relationship so that's when I was like okay it's not me it's just that other one was a terrible yeah I think I'm very open -minded for where I'm going at the moment like I know I know I'm on the right trajectory I'm doing more in the public space I want to do more in the public space I think I want to make a difference I think I think that's coming back to the point of what makes me happy now is seeing people progress and people develop and people be happy I think if I can that's why I'm in that's why I'm so passionate about mental health is because I can make a difference to people and I think my I want to continue to do that and I think that's where I'll go I'm going to put the link in the podcast description for the calm fundraiser that you're doing currently so talk to me a little bit about that you're what are you doing you're raising funds and what are you doing you're doing marathons yeah so I'm doing 12 races over 12 months right all different lengths all different kind of like sizes from tough mudder which everyone knows about but also some like really cool ones I did a 12k in France where I was like running for midnight through the snow and then kind of the the whole thing is leading up to the London Marathon in April.

[507] So that's kind of like the big thing.

[508] April, this year?

[509] April 23rd.

[510] I might do it.

[511] I'll see what my schedule is saying, but I might.

[512] I'm not freaking around.

[513] Now I'm going to poll it.

[514] Listen, thank you so much for a few things.

[515] First thing is for being so tremendously open because it's not, it's not easy.

[516] And it's a very selfless thing to do.

[517] It's much easier and much more selfish just to protect your ego and to, um, and to be a bit closed off, but I think one of the things I've, I've learned from you is the importance of speaking and being honest with yourself and other people.

[518] I've really, really learned that.

[519] I don't often say that to you, but I've really, really learned that.

[520] And you've inspired a lot of people within the team now.

[521] You've gone from someone who, as you said at the start was maybe a bit of a joke to people, to now people look up to you.

[522] But not just that, they also seek advice from you on a private level to do with their own personal struggles.

[523] And you've become a bit of a magnet, especially to the men within the business.

[524] the team's grown to nearly 200 people now as somebody you can come to who will you know be the ear as the guy that you saw was to you and I think that's so important because there's just not enough men especially in high positions or positions of leadership that are willing to be that open I think that's something that I completely respect you for and has been inspiring to me but also thank you for the turnaround you made because look fucking, I don't think I could have done this alone with drunk dominant.

[525] I think in sorting yourself out, you took a, you know, you really, really did me a massive, massive favour.

[526] You made my life so much easier.

[527] You took the weight more with me. Do you know what I mean?

[528] Took the strain of the business more with me and, look, I won't, I'll never forget that day.

[529] I'm not said it to you.

[530] I'm not told you.

[531] I don't know if I've made I've said it like a little bit, but like that day, I don't know, I've said to people, I don't know wherever I'd be here, alive i've honestly felt that i honestly the way out the route i was going down i don't know wherever i'd be here it's like when i say like like like thanks would like saving my life because i honestly feel like i had no one telling me the truth yeah as much as you and i appreciate that but i i can't get away from the fact that you very much did that yourself like you i don't know many people and i know a lot of friends who are going for a very similar thing to you and none of them are admitting it are, I don't have the courage or the bravery to talk and I admire the, I genuinely admire the bravery to say something.

[532] I honestly question whether I would.

[533] I don't think I would.

[534] And that's something that I struggle with.

[535] I'm like, and I think, why not?

[536] And I think, how are you going to do?

[537] Like, if I was really, really struggling at some point in my life, would I, would I say, I just really, and I worry about that?

[538] Because that's even more dangerous.

[539] That's like the most dangerous thing.

[540] I've spoken to someone high up here female who we both said the same thing she's gone through I think once you break and you feel yourself breaking you never went back and like what I said what me and her said is that we want people not to be to have to break to realize that they can there's something wrong with them and like I and that's what I think like you know you if you haven't felt like that you know you haven't like I don't know if you felt like you've broken or you felt like maybe you've had that like maybe like earlier but like early days you had that and you've had that feeling because you said it to me as well again like about the stress threshold everyone's got that day where it was the worst day and it was the worst moment in your life and it keeps building up that that was the worst day and everything underneath that you can deal with you can deal with all the shit that as long as it doesn't reach that threshold ever again and like my fresh I feel like my fresh on now is so high for like that moment when I felt like I was, I wanted to give up on the dream, you know, I wanted to, I wanted to sell it all.

[541] I wanted to get rid of it because it was on top of me. And that, that bullshit was so, so much that I know now I can deal with everything.

[542] On that note, I just want to say thank you for coming on the podcast.

[543] Again, your honesty is, it's something I hope you never ever lose because I think, honesty and that openness and the vulnerability is something that's rare and is healing to a lot of people.

[544] So thank you so much.

[545] I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

[546] All of the links to Dom's social channels and his go fund.

[547] Is it GoFundMe?

[548] Everyday hero.

[549] Okay.

[550] All are all below in the podcast store and you can find them on my Twitter account as well.

[551] Do tweet me. Do tweet Dom.

[552] What's your Twitter .com.

[553] At Dominic McGregor.

[554] At Dominic McGregor.

[555] And let us know what you thought of the podcast.

[556] And I'll see you again in Chapter 11.

[557] Thank you.