Josh Brolin

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rathers.

[2] I'm joined by Minister Mouse.

[3] Minister Mice.

[4] Mr. Mice.

[5] I'm going to go out on a limb and I'm going to say I know zero disrespect to anyone else.

[6] This is going to be an early guest for me for the favorite episode of the year.

[7] That's awesome.

[8] Yes.

[9] It was really fun.

[10] I loved getting to know Josh Brolin because I've just adored him on Instagram.

[11] Yes.

[12] I've had a couple of exchanges and it's been just for me a very long time coming.

[13] And it just went swimmingly.

[14] I just couldn't get enough of them.

[15] Yeah, you guys were buzzing.

[16] Broying out, relating about being scumbags, junkie alcoholics.

[17] It's sort of the epitome of what our show does.

[18] Masculine but vulnerable.

[19] Vulnerable boys.

[20] Self -mastipatory.

[21] Well, a little bit of that.

[22] A little bit of that.

[23] Josh Bolin, you love him.

[24] He's an award -winning actor.

[25] Just recently was in Dune.

[26] He's in The Avengers, Sicario, no country for old men, milk.

[27] Let us not forget the greatest movie of all time, Goonies.

[28] Go Go Go Go Go Go Goo Goonies.

[29] He has a new show out right now that is so interesting called Outer Range.

[30] As you'll learn in this interview, it's kind of a Yellowstone -esque, but it's got a fucking sci -fi angle that'll knock your prick in the dirt.

[31] Outer Range, which is on Prime Video.

[32] Check out Outer Range and enjoy Josh Brolin.

[33] subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[34] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[35] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[36] He's an armchair ex -bye.

[37] Did you guys watch last night?

[38] You were there, right?

[39] I was right there.

[40] I'm curious about what you're going to say.

[41] Okay, great.

[42] Listen, Monica has somehow kept us on the air for four years, so we'll be safe.

[43] Irreverently yours.

[44] Let's just say that you witnessed something pretty chaotic, and I'm going to guess about you, because my wife's always perplexed by this.

[45] I'm like, okay, now we're living.

[46] Like, something clicks in.

[47] I went into 7 -Eleven not too long ago.

[48] The girls were all waiting in the car.

[49] I was in line.

[50] A dude came in shirtless getting after it.

[51] He wanted some ketchup.

[52] That's all he wanted.

[53] And so they go, get out of here.

[54] You know, he's like, all I want.

[55] with some ketchup asshole and then he plants himself and now it's coming and I am smiling ear to I'm thinking oh ma 'am shit's gonna go down you feel like you've just come home after a vacation you're like this is where I was intended to be my whole life by the way not a good thing that's not a good thing it's not a healthy thing and it's like if you carry a rage inside you you are looking to manifest that rage somewhere you're looking for the hole to fill with your rage, and you want to be the leader of that rage.

[56] Well, you want to be in control of it so you're not the victim of it.

[57] That's exactly what it is.

[58] And it purely comes out of fear.

[59] So my son and I were talking on the way here.

[60] We were laughing because you have to laugh at it.

[61] He was at my ex -wife's family, like an Oscar, whatever.

[62] I mean, literally in Albuquerque, so probably six people.

[63] And he said, I couldn't stop pacing.

[64] I saw it and I couldn't stop pacing.

[65] And I go, I was at the Oscars.

[66] and I couldn't stop pacing.

[67] Yeah.

[68] Because part of me wanted to be in the center of it.

[69] Yes.

[70] Do you know what I mean?

[71] Like, wait, Denzel's holding off this and that.

[72] And I want to know who the fuck's at fault.

[73] Right?

[74] You're going to hop right into the chaos.

[75] I'm so the opposite.

[76] You're the opposite.

[77] Oh, God.

[78] I'm running out of that room.

[79] I'm like, everything's going to blow up.

[80] I don't want to be here.

[81] Yes, help.

[82] All right, I have too much to say about this.

[83] But one time I was on a set, and one of the actors had epic, much bigger than any previous explosion I've ever heard, even recorded on a set.

[84] It was a 20 -minute diatribe of vinegar and viper.

[85] It was a volcano.

[86] And I looked around, a huge cast of actors, I looked around and I could tell you what everyone's childhood was just by glancing at everyone.

[87] Either they're terrified because they didn't have an alcoholic dad in the house.

[88] Other people are now calm because now is here why I do my best thinking.

[89] I'm like a little elated, I hate to say, because I'm like, oh, this is fucking nuts.

[90] What's going to happen next?

[91] I think like you, I'm just very comfortable in that situation.

[92] And for the reasons you said, I'm trying to fill a hole.

[93] Trauma in the background.

[94] So my nervous system is always tilted towards over arousal.

[95] So when it's actually happening, I'm like, okay, I've been prepping for this all day long.

[96] Literally, I've always thought that like especially coming from trauma, parental trauma, childhood trauma, whatever that is.

[97] Kids will do one of two things.

[98] and it's the same energy.

[99] They'll either emulate it to try and understand why it was the way it was, or they'll do the opposite, right?

[100] And they'll live this kind of holy existence that's also totally unhealthy because it's exactly the same energy.

[101] You're holding on to that thing that is a mystery to you and always been a mystery to you, and you go, why me?

[102] Why didn't I feel safe?

[103] It's really interesting to me, man, because I have a 33 -year -old, a 28 -year -old, a 3 -year -old, and a 1 -year -old.

[104] Wow.

[105] And a 19 -year -old and a 17 -year -old.

[106] No, I'm just kidding.

[107] And a 41 -year -old.

[108] So I get to talk to my kids about shit that we're going through with the one -year -old and the three -year -old.

[109] And then I can go like, hey, what did you remember?

[110] And my daughter said something recently.

[111] She goes, just totally.

[112] I mean, the most humbling moment I've had in parent.

[113] And she said, the kids won't remember what they did, but they'll sure as hell remember the reaction.

[114] And I was like, oh, wow.

[115] That's so intense.

[116] Yeah, like most optimistic mind, you think, well, I wasn't my best then, but they'll remember the whole interaction.

[117] They weren't their best either, but no, you're right.

[118] They're going to whitewash that part.

[119] No, but it's cool to be able to bounce things off them, and then you get the truth, and you go, okay, now I'm an older dude.

[120] And I kind of deal with it this way, and I've mellowed out, but I'm more interested.

[121] I'm more interested in how I can be better.

[122] I'm more interested in how I can create a place that's safer.

[123] I'm not as reactionary.

[124] I wrestle with this all the time.

[125] So my reaction to that trauma as a kid was, fuck, I can't do anything about this.

[126] I can't stop this stepdad from hurting my mom.

[127] I can't stop this dude from doing this to me. So my pledge to myself is it'll never happen on my watch when I'm an adult.

[128] Like, I'll die fighting, but I just never will be powerless.

[129] And then this perverse obsession with being in control of every situation, being in power, waiting for that opportunity.

[130] The part I was caught between with having children is like my.

[131] instinct is to prepare them for a world that I lived in.

[132] And I have to regularly remind myself, A, they're not entering the world I entered, and their child is never going to be that.

[133] So I have to fight it.

[134] That's exactly right, because it has nothing to do with them.

[135] It's totally self -absorbed.

[136] How do you look at the situation for what it actually is?

[137] Is that even possible?

[138] Yeah.

[139] You know, you have to be resilient.

[140] Yes.

[141] Like, you're going to get fucked.

[142] Yes.

[143] Yes.

[144] Like, we're all running.

[145] And I'm scared of you getting fucked.

[146] You're not.

[147] Not, but I'm going to try to make you scared.

[148] Totally, man. We are on stage about to get slapped all the time.

[149] Yes, yes, just waiting.

[150] It's so funny, man, because I think about this shit all the time.

[151] Yes.

[152] But until you guys.

[153] Well, that's why they say trauma's passed down, I think, because it's not biologically passed down.

[154] I mean, there might be some evidence.

[155] But it is passed down because of that exact thing.

[156] Like you instilling in your kids a fear that you have.

[157] A worldview.

[158] A worldview, yeah.

[159] But that's a thing.

[160] Like, I look at you and you say you would run, which I know is not necessarily true.

[161] But you would appropriately be afraid.

[162] I would be extra afraid.

[163] If there's a spectrum, there's probably an appropriate level of fear.

[164] And I would feel like seven out of ten.

[165] You would think a bomb went off.

[166] Yes.

[167] I would think everything is about to erupt.

[168] Like, this is a dangerous place now.

[169] And you and I are saying they're going like, I fucking hope this thing hits the skids right now because I'm prepared for this.

[170] Literally, that was like, I know we're not really supposed to bring it up because I have all my feelings about it.

[171] And it was in absolute confusion.

[172] I understand it from both sides.

[173] Totally inappropriate and totally inappropriate, right?

[174] So there's two levels of it.

[175] Like you, what we just said is I want to get in the middle of it.

[176] That's my first instinct to try and control it.

[177] And it's funny, man. Like, you guys said it when I walked in.

[178] You're like, oh, man, he's manly.

[179] Like, now I realize my youngest daughter has my structure.

[180] So she looks like she's going to fuck you up.

[181] As a 15 -month -old girl.

[182] And she's the happiest, most open giving, saying hello to everybody.

[183] I mean, she's the most open child I've ever met in my life.

[184] But resting face.

[185] Where the fuck is my bottle?

[186] Don't make me cry for it.

[187] She's not thinking that, so I have that structure for whatever reason.

[188] And then the other thing is that you cultivate a look that you carry with you all the time that has worked very well for my career.

[189] And then personally, I've had to slowly let that look go.

[190] It's kind of like having tattoos.

[191] Like I have this one now.

[192] It's my son's drawing.

[193] But I used to be covered.

[194] And I had them all taken off.

[195] No way.

[196] And somebody asked me, why did you have them taken off?

[197] And I said, I don't need them anymore.

[198] And plus this, along with this, and that's what it's meant to be.

[199] It's like, stay away from me, be afraid of me because something bad will happen.

[200] But the truth of the matter, obviously, is I'm scared shitless.

[201] And I don't want to be in a position, even though I look like I always want to be in a position.

[202] And that's how to avoid that is to project something that is a performance art. We talk about this all the time, because my image is so cultivated.

[203] It's crazy.

[204] And when I look at my kids, I think, oh, could I have been that happy, go lucky little fellow?

[205] And you were at some point.

[206] Yeah, yeah, I was at some point.

[207] But then you weren't.

[208] I was sending a message to everybody.

[209] It's not even I'm dominating you.

[210] It's just you will have your hands full.

[211] So just move to the next person.

[212] Totally.

[213] Bro, I've said that out loud.

[214] I was like, let's stop for a second because I know what you're doing.

[215] Are you sure you want to do this?

[216] Like, you can do it.

[217] Yeah, yeah.

[218] I'll be right here for you.

[219] For you.

[220] By the way, that's all like, verbal juggling and all that there was one time and this was a good thing this was the right thing to do but in the way that i did it was self -absorbed and we were on the set of gangster squad i can't remember what they were protesting and we were downtown i think we were in macarthur park or something Sean was there and somebody was protesting and he was drinking during this protest and it was a righteous protest and he came out of it and he walked on our set the PA says hey you can't walk here He was in that mode already.

[221] Sure, sure.

[222] Silverback gorilla mode.

[223] So then he started talking down to the PA.

[224] And the PA doesn't want to lose her, his job.

[225] So then that thing started, and he's loud because he's drinking, you know, and I heard it.

[226] And I turned around.

[227] It sounds so arrogant, and it was.

[228] As I turned around and I zeroed in, I cross -haired on him, and I was like, my job is to humiliate you.

[229] Right.

[230] That's why I'm here.

[231] I need to teach you the great lesson.

[232] I'm the sheriff.

[233] of everywhere I am the chef of everywhere I'm at and literally everybody afterwards if my vocabulary choices are right on if I can be present enough then there's going to be yes yes yes no that was for all of us I would do it differently now but I don't know how much I think it would be a little less self -absorbed but it would still be there yeah the sheriff is alive in all of us.

[234] Everybody has it.

[235] You know, I mean, Tom Cruise, like, pulled over and helped somebody, which is so great, it's so wonderfully he did it.

[236] But it's Tom Cruise.

[237] It's like, you can't help it.

[238] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[239] There's some bizarre kind of ego crossover.

[240] I can do it because I've saved the world twice in two different films.

[241] Right.

[242] It's a sword, though.

[243] There's a really good side to it.

[244] It's an obsession with justice, I think.

[245] I've been accused of being a sheriff as well.

[246] In your own way.

[247] Yeah, but it's the same thing.

[248] it's, no, this is for everyone.

[249] For people who can't or won't, it'll be me. Like, it makes me super righteous.

[250] Exactly.

[251] And it's a problem.

[252] And if it works, there is a power that you inherit that is poisoning.

[253] Yeah.

[254] Very few people can handle real power or perceived power without it poisoning them.

[255] I mean, sadly, you're my brother's age.

[256] So I have a lot of experience with this exact age dynamic.

[257] And I was emulating him like crazy as you'd imagine and when you leave i'm going to find out where i can buy that hat i'll send you one so i'm going to guess that this is stemming from the same place which is i didn't have a dad around i don't know your whole story with your dad but because i didn't have a dad to go that a boy son you're becoming a man i turned it over to all of my friends did you have a group yes the tightest group one guy in particular in the irony of it all is you know it comes from the exact same place he's watching his fucking shithead stepdad beat up mom all the time tons of alcoholism sexual abuse and we were we'll fight this whole place right that's what the bond was but the true appeal of the friendship was the only person i could be vulnerable around i could say i'm terrified to fight charles i'm gonna but just having one person that i could let the whole thing down with one outlet of vulnerability is what saved me yeah which was with this one guy yeah Aaron weekly still my best friend Aaron weekly still your best friend i love hearing that got sober two years ago he did yeah so now we're back in business it was hard for us for a minute and you're sober how long so i quit drinking 17 years ago i have not drank or done coke those were my primary drugs of choice yeah and then i relapsed on opiates smoked weed during that time got a little into those things i've tried a couple things that i thought i could have power over and i've come to find out i don't have power over any single thing suffice to say that 17 years i didn't drink and aaron goes as hard as you can go there'd be a period we could see each other but then we got to go our separate ways yeah but now we're back in and you're you You?

[258] I got sober.

[259] I'm not sober.

[260] No, I'm just kidding.

[261] Big reveal.

[262] I'm on Molly right now and this toothpick is fucking delicious.

[263] Where do you get these?

[264] I'm fucking rolling hard.

[265] I got sober at 19.

[266] I was looking at 14 years in prison.

[267] You punch a cop or something?

[268] Six.

[269] Six cops?

[270] Yeah.

[271] So I fought on the corner of Hollywood and LaBrea.

[272] And my buddy, who I'm still buddies with, who has, I was 26 years sober at this point.

[273] Dude, this is literally the lamest story I could tell.

[274] As he was closing the store, he saw me turn around toward the cops, and he heard this.

[275] And that's the God's honest truth.

[276] And if you're too young to have seen Enter the Dragon, watch it.

[277] That's exactly what it is.

[278] I was, in my mind, Bruce Lee.

[279] And they kicked my ass so bad.

[280] And they hog -tied me. So I got sober for three and a half years, and then I went back out.

[281] And then I got sober at 29 for five years.

[282] Yeah, and I should have kept that going.

[283] But then I met a girl, and then I knew immediately.

[284] In your head, you're like, maybe you start questioning it.

[285] Like, maybe if I just stay away from that and I do that and you start kind of like positioning things.

[286] Coupled with I'm older.

[287] Yeah, man. Again, if you want to get there, you'll find a way there.

[288] Our best creativity has been spent convincing ourselves.

[289] to do what we want to do.

[290] If you do an acting job, and if you spend the kind of creative specificity that we do doing that, we'd have 12 Oscars.

[291] Literally.

[292] Yeah, yeah.

[293] It feels life and death.

[294] Yes.

[295] It's like, I have to figure this out.

[296] Yes, and there's a way.

[297] There is a way.

[298] Yes, all that shit's bad, but I'm smarter than your average bear.

[299] So ultimately, I got sober at 45.

[300] My grandma was kind of on her death bed, even though she didn't die for a couple more months.

[301] But we thought she was dying at that point.

[302] And I'm the guy, like you, who's like, okay, everybody's going to show up here and you're going to be here and then this.

[303] And then this part of the family will show up and everybody relies on Josh.

[304] And then that night they couldn't because I was kind of dry and it was Halloween night.

[305] I went out for a beer that turned into like 16 something.

[306] I ended up at O 'Brien's on Main Street in Santa Monica.

[307] I had been 86 out of every bar on Main Street except O 'Brien's because they love me. Good Irish stock in there.

[308] That's why.

[309] That's the deal.

[310] And I woke up on the sidewalk in front of my house, couldn't find my car, finally found the car, finally found a way to get in, picked up my brother, I was late, showed up stinking, and I walked in, and my grandmother, 99 years old, lifted her head, never a drinker, never a drugger, just life on life's terms, and looked at me in this huge smile, just, and I went, that's it, I'm done.

[311] And I haven't had anything.

[312] Literally.

[313] It was like, how dare me, with everything in the palm of my hands, need all this idea of assistance just to get through the day.

[314] Yeah.

[315] Or to get through this life.

[316] With all the things you want it.

[317] It's so embarrassing.

[318] And this lady went through literally a century without any help.

[319] We're cowards, really.

[320] Every time I'm in an AA meeting, they keep trying to figure out the quintessential ingredient for all of us.

[321] And I'm like, you know the quintessential ingredient is like, we are incapable of.

[322] of being uncomfortable for five minutes.

[323] That's the truth about us.

[324] Unfair, unjust.

[325] I don't deserve to feel uncomfortable for five minutes.

[326] Yeah.

[327] I have got to fix this immediately.

[328] So how long ago was that?

[329] Eight plus years, 45.

[330] I'm 54.

[331] Oh, that's fantastic.

[332] And now also you have two kids that you're going to do the whole ride with.

[333] Yeah, ma 'am.

[334] We went to Atlanta, Georgia.

[335] We moved there because my wife's from there.

[336] It was kind of an emotional move.

[337] Monica's from Georgia.

[338] Are you from Atlanta?

[339] Yeah.

[340] Okay.

[341] We were in Atlanta.

[342] Our family's there.

[343] You get so much more for your money.

[344] I didn't really grow up in Santa Monica, but I was born in Santa Monica, grew up in Pasoobos, and then came back down here eventually, was in Venice, and you're in little chit holes, and you have to love it, and I love it.

[345] I love all that community.

[346] I love all that insanity.

[347] I love the diversity.

[348] I love the chaos.

[349] But I also like, because it's another extreme version, being up in Pasoobos, which is total silence in the middle of nowhere, only nature, only the elements, and I love that equally.

[350] So I can be that guy 100 % and say, I'm never going back down south again.

[351] And then I end up back down south.

[352] And I go, like, I'm a Venice.

[353] I'm going to bring.

[354] I was born to walk these streets.

[355] Shit's happening here.

[356] I'm never going back to Paso Roble.

[357] I have these zones too.

[358] I'm currently looking at 86 acres in Elban where I figured I'm going to be happy every day I wake up because there's nothing there.

[359] Because there's nothing there.

[360] Yeah.

[361] And then I'll be there for three months.

[362] I'm fucking dying.

[363] So we went to Atlanta.

[364] beautiful house.

[365] We did it very unlike Atlanta because in Atlanta, it's creams, what is it, like, grays.

[366] The interior of every house is the same.

[367] It is.

[368] So it's like European.

[369] It's like wallpaper everywhere.

[370] It's the coolest fucking house.

[371] And then you're in Atlanta.

[372] If you're not from Atlanta, it's a very specific place.

[373] To me, it's not even the South.

[374] Atlanta is a microcosm of a lot of different things.

[375] It's an amazing black community.

[376] Old Fourth Ward, I love.

[377] I love the history.

[378] there.

[379] I was really close with Howard Zen.

[380] He taught at Spelman College.

[381] Howard and I did this Voices of People's History in the United States.

[382] I have a great connection to it.

[383] And I heard gunshots one night.

[384] I grew up right down the street here.

[385] I lived on Franklin between Argyle and Gower.

[386] That's where my son was born.

[387] We lived in the Hollywood Towers.

[388] We lived in a shitty little place.

[389] So I heard gunshots every night.

[390] So I heard gunshots.

[391] Like, I'm not the guy hiding.

[392] I'm like, where's my case?

[393] They're calling me. I find out.

[394] that Cardi B has bought the house and she's got a gun range in her house.

[395] Oh, cool.

[396] So I'm like, all I know right now is I want to shoot guns with Cardi B. That's right.

[397] Absolutely.

[398] Like, do you even know who Cardi B is?

[399] No. I know enough.

[400] But I know enough to want to be there and shoot guns with her.

[401] So that was in my head, romantically, whatever I created in my head, I'm like, I'm part of this whole community.

[402] Tyler Perry and I are going to get together.

[403] We're going to build a new studio.

[404] We're going to tear him.

[405] his down.

[406] The Perry -Brollin studio.

[407] The Perry -Brollin studio.

[408] I want to book time there.

[409] And all because of me as the forward -thinking person who in the right state of mind could make things like that happen, maybe not quite that.

[410] But now you live there and you go, like, do you want to call Cardi B today?

[411] Well, she doesn't know me. Or you drive by your house, which I did.

[412] And there's massive security.

[413] And I go, I'll try tomorrow.

[414] I'm not going to do it today.

[415] I hope you share this.

[416] have to be a part of every circle.

[417] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[418] The thousand faces of Zach.

[419] What's that?

[420] Is that a book I need to read?

[421] All the books that I've read in all the sobriety that I've had in my time, it's like, that's the thing.

[422] How can I be a part of every single little circle?

[423] And I'm not so much like that anymore, but I was.

[424] Can we go really quick to the Cito Boys?

[425] So I was in Paso Robles.

[426] My mom went to Pasoble.

[427] She ran a wildlife way station up there.

[428] We grew up with wolves.

[429] Oh, she was a conservationist, take wild animals away from people who had illegally taken the man of the wild, have them jailed, find the most habitable zoo, or try to release them.

[430] She's a sheriff, too, a little bit.

[431] And a huge personality.

[432] You were 16 when they got divorced?

[433] Yeah.

[434] Your dad was pretty busy?

[435] Both.

[436] My mom was going out with a truck driver for years that looked exactly like my dad.

[437] Oh, really?

[438] Literally.

[439] Oh, wow.

[440] Why didn't he get into show business?

[441] You and my dad could play brothers.

[442] Have you ever thought about being a stancher?

[443] for your girlfriend's ex -husband?

[444] Again, you talk about chaos.

[445] That's the norm that you grow up in.

[446] And you're like, well, that's what you do, right?

[447] And then the 80s, too, in partying, my mom was a drinker, very similar to me, which makes sense.

[448] So there was a group of guys, and it was the beginning of punk rock, and we started shaving our heads, like, in seventh grade, and then you almost get expelled.

[449] It was all happening.

[450] So the sex pistols were happening.

[451] The germs were happening.

[452] Circle jerks.

[453] Then started to happen.

[454] Black Flag started to happen and T .S .O .L. Misfits.

[455] All that.

[456] So that group became known as the Cito Rats.

[457] Monacito Rats.

[458] Oh, as in Monacito.

[459] That makes sense.

[460] That makes sense.

[461] So the Cito rats, we hung out at Butterfly Beach in Santa Barbara.

[462] And that's literally where we were all the time.

[463] At what age?

[464] 14 -ish.

[465] No. 12 on.

[466] So that's right between Pesso -Robles in Santa Monica.

[467] You're saying, Mom, I'm out.

[468] Who are you there with?

[469] So we've moved now from Pasoobos to Santa Barbara.

[470] Can I just set the scene really quick?

[471] Because I moved directly from Detroit to Santa Barbara.

[472] Oh, wow.

[473] I was too afraid to come to L .A. I was flirting with being in show business.

[474] This is the vibe I got.

[475] There were a bunch of rich people's kids who had been pretty much unobserved.

[476] First girl I met was like shooting meth in a very nice house with seven other people shooting meth.

[477] What year?

[478] This is 95.

[479] This scene doesn't exist in Michigan.

[480] It's like rich delinquent kids.

[481] Yeah.

[482] Where in Santa Barbara?

[483] Right by the water.

[484] 201 Bass Street.

[485] Which is different than Montecito.

[486] So Montecito's rich as fuck, if people don't know.

[487] So my deal there was before the overpass.

[488] Okay.

[489] Like Santa Barbara was one of the last places to have stoplights still on the freeway.

[490] Right on the 101.

[491] Lower State was really bad, very, very homeless.

[492] Yeah.

[493] I worked at a restaurant at the bottom of Lower State called Rocky Galenny's that was like the most amazing, open, incredible guys singing arias.

[494] Oh, Italian or something?

[495] Italian.

[496] And I worked there from 12 to 15 and became.

[497] head pasta cook at 15, which I'm very proud of.

[498] That's what you're boiling noodles?

[499] Dude, it was fucking, it was the best.

[500] Head pasta cook.

[501] Yeah, which sounds so lame.

[502] No, that sounds exciting.

[503] That's like chief cereal maker.

[504] Chief toast captain.

[505] So the guys that I hung out with, the first guy that I met when I moved from Pasoble's to Santa Barbara was Jason Sears.

[506] We started a band that later became known as once I dropped out, rich kids on LSD, RKL, which was a big punk band.

[507] And Jason Sears was the lead singer of that band, and he was known for throwing up on stage, and it was a really great.

[508] It's a skill.

[509] Well, it's a G .G. Allen kind of trick.

[510] Exactly.

[511] He's not the only one to do it.

[512] A lot of great people came before him.

[513] So that group, it was a mixture of really poor Santa Barbara dudes and the kids of very rich, neglectful parents.

[514] What a soup.

[515] But it was all based on.

[516] on we have no group, we have no foundation, we'll be each other's parents kind of thing.

[517] So if you look at Bra Boys in Australia, if you look at Wolfpack in Kauai, if you look at those surf cultures, all guys that I know, and most guys who are sober now, by the way, the guys who made it, we all look at each other, you know, Dogtown and Z -Boys was a different generation, but that was a version of that thing down south.

[518] And it was heavily drug -induced, heavily drinking induced.

[519] Can I add a layer?

[520] Because, as you say, Dogtown, Z -Boys, the scene I was in, skater, punk rock, you're starting with dudes that were not on the football team, they were outcasts.

[521] And so when you come together as mutual outcasts, and you bond over this kind of alternative sport as the gateway in, it's just a very specific experience.

[522] There's an ire towards the outside world, because that's what you came to this.

[523] You weren't a homecoming king.

[524] I mean, no, but there was no interest.

[525] Maybe there was a push for that somewhere inside.

[526] like I even think I ordered like a water polo high school ring for no reason other than I wanted to imagine that I had some skill somewhere.

[527] I had no skill other than surfing, which is the loser's sport.

[528] Well, that's what I'm saying to you.

[529] The irony of it is it's a very specific type of outcast because in high school you've got all the kids that are just kind of voiceless, right?

[530] But then you have these other kids like myself and like you, which took this other path was like, I'm an outcast, but I'm loud as hell about it.

[531] Look at my fucking hair.

[532] Look at my clothes.

[533] Look at my boots.

[534] Totally.

[535] So it's a really interesting subset.

[536] It is.

[537] But at the same time, you look at those dudes and most of those guys have died that I grew up with.

[538] Same.

[539] And when I say that and I say it publicly, I literally have guys call me and say, bro, I'm not dead.

[540] Why do you say we all died?

[541] About 32 of those people have died of the close group that I grew up with.

[542] And it was mostly heroin.

[543] Yeah, yeah.

[544] But it was a genius group.

[545] Like, they were so creative and so smart.

[546] Jason Sears was one of the smartest human beings I've ever met.

[547] Chris Rest is still around.

[548] He's an incredible human being.

[549] Will Mueller.

[550] I mean, these guys were the great fucking personalities of all time people you would want to hang out with.

[551] Yeah.

[552] And emotionally probably available.

[553] It was a family, man. It was really a family until it started getting really reactionary and out of hand.

[554] And it was usually toward police.

[555] So the herb is still.

[556] was where our hub was.

[557] And that was Mike Herbert, my friend now who's sober.

[558] His house was it.

[559] So you'd see cabbage patch dolls stuck into the ceiling.

[560] You'd see syringes stuck in the cabin patch dolls head.

[561] He's like sex everywhere.

[562] Everything is spray painted all the time.

[563] I remember I did acid for the first time when I was 13.

[564] That was a good trip.

[565] Then I did it, of course, again that night.

[566] Yeah.

[567] That was gnarly.

[568] There was somebody's mother in the kitchen throwing up.

[569] while I was tripping, which didn't really, like, jive well with the trip.

[570] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[571] And then it gets all kind of morbid and gnarly.

[572] And I'm saying this to him.

[573] And then I look over at you and I go, that's how unreal it was.

[574] Until I met my wife, I met her.

[575] I went to her house.

[576] She had like eight or nine people living there for free.

[577] So my first thought is like, you're getting taken advantage of.

[578] I'm getting rid of all these people.

[579] The world only has wolves in it.

[580] That was my worldview.

[581] And as I slowly thought around her and I started kind of giving these people a chance, I'm like, no, these are actually nice people.

[582] Oh, she's benefiting from this by being up service to them and sharing what she has.

[583] But, man, it took years.

[584] And it also took her going, oh, by the way, your key identity tenant, which is like you protect people, makes people feel scared.

[585] I'm scared around you.

[586] I don't feel protected by you.

[587] I feel like anything could happen.

[588] She said that?

[589] Yeah.

[590] Wow.

[591] And I was like, ooh, that's not what I thought.

[592] Yeah.

[593] Everyone I grew up with love that I was there for them and that I would go to the next level.

[594] You're in a community that's all scary.

[595] That's right.

[596] Everyone's terrified.

[597] Yeah.

[598] Yeah, so that to me was, I don't know who I am if I don't meet the person who reminds me of the part people actually like about me and reminds me of the part people actually hate about me, which I had it flipped.

[599] If you're lucky enough to leave your little pocket, you can bring vestigal shit with you that's completely counterproductive to everything you want to be.

[600] And it has nothing to do with where you are.

[601] No. Part of me says, oh, I'm not sitirat anymore.

[602] And even though I get shit maybe from those guys in the beginning of like, oh, you think you're so hoity tooty and Goonies, are you joking?

[603] what are you doing you know what I mean those seminal movie ever made and then you take it from there and then you remove yourself for long enough where you're like wow I actually have something that I want to pursue or there's things about myself that are being revealed that I actually want to take further and know more and like I'm curious now and now books are opening up to me and you're like wow or you're seeing movies and you're like holy shit performance and what is character and what is storytelling and the whole world opens up, but like you say, you pull things along that you don't know, and I catch myself, I still catch myself doing this.

[604] And sometimes for the right reasons, it's just the way I deal with it is not, okay, is I start demonizing.

[605] Literally, I'm like the happy guy, I'm the most inclusive guy, and then suddenly I go, whoa, why are you here?

[606] Yeah.

[607] Why are you in my house?

[608] Like, I did that when the kids were born.

[609] What kind of brings it out of you, right?

[610] Laird Hamilton, and we were all, like, together, and it was our thing, and we're all working out, and it's great, and it's fun and then the kid was born and then people would say hey can i come over and they'd be talking to me and all i'm thinking is all you're doing is taking time away from me and my kid so i have to not like you anymore right and it's weird man because you don't even know that's happening i don't even know it's happening i'm guessing you pinpoint i just figure out one of their intentions i'm constantly radaring totally okay i know what this guy wants that's fine i can live with that uh i know what this gal wants that's fine with me ooh yeah i know what this person wants and this is a issue.

[611] Do you say it to them?

[612] I run it by my wife.

[613] That's so smart.

[614] I do.

[615] And I get green lit, probably one and 15 times.

[616] Right.

[617] One in 15 times.

[618] That's not a good ratio.

[619] Well.

[620] But it's good that you run it by your wife.

[621] There's even public personalities, right?

[622] Like I said to her, if we ever saw Tucker Carlson, can I just drop that motherfucker?

[623] And she goes, you can do that.

[624] You can.

[625] Yeah, yeah.

[626] I got a green light on that.

[627] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[628] Stay tuned for more armchair experts.

[629] if you dare What's up guys?

[630] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest okay?

[631] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation and I don't mean just friends I mean the likes of Amy Polar Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox the list goes on so follow, watch and listen to Baby this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[632] We've all been there.

[633] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[634] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[635] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[636] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[637] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[638] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[639] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[640] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[641] I mean, it's really unfair.

[642] It's unfair to the other people.

[643] Oh my God, it's so unfair.

[644] You're deciding all this show.

[645] about them.

[646] They're not taking time away from your kid.

[647] You chose to do that.

[648] I couldn't agree with you more.

[649] Some of these people, like, I'm close with.

[650] They're like friends.

[651] And they're like, why haven't I seen you?

[652] And you're like, because I don't like you anymore because you took me away from my kid.

[653] And they're like, that's not fair.

[654] It's not fair at all.

[655] I mean, somebody was reaching out to me recently.

[656] There was a decision where I go, God, I know I've stayed away and all that, but I have to incorporate life.

[657] Then we get into a whole other thing, which is a hero thing, which is, okay, we came from a lot of space in Atlanta.

[658] We have a ranch up north.

[659] Like, I humbly say this.

[660] We have Malibu that's being extra built right now.

[661] So we're back in 1 ,400 square feet.

[662] So we're in one room right now.

[663] I'm in heaven.

[664] How much do you love a hotel room with your family?

[665] Heard.

[666] I'm like, oh, I can control this little space.

[667] And it sounds horrible, but there's something also really beautifully romantic about it.

[668] As I woke up this morning, we went to the Oscars last night.

[669] You're kind of being pulled in different direct.

[670] You're yelling to everybody.

[671] you live in Venice?

[672] Where?

[673] You know what I mean?

[674] And then you get home and then you wake up with a one -year -old against your torso on the floor.

[675] Well, it's intimate.

[676] And it's intimate.

[677] So that's the plus.

[678] Well, and it remind you of your primary purpose.

[679] It right -sizes everything for you.

[680] Which I think is a big, big thing with me in our business, what we spoke about in the beginning, the power.

[681] And I always say perceived status.

[682] Because does it really exist?

[683] And if it does exist, how long is it going to last?

[684] Night before the party or coming home for the party for me?

[685] That's exactly right.

[686] It's like, where are you now?

[687] And I always say, like, oh, man, you're doing so well right now or whatever.

[688] I heard for 20 years like, dude, it's right around the corner for you.

[689] And I remember saying, I'm okay with where I'm at.

[690] But how close is the corner?

[691] Is there something better always?

[692] Or am I cool with just my Honda?

[693] Yeah.

[694] Like, I'm okay.

[695] I'm surviving.

[696] I'm able to feed my kids, put my kids in.

[697] school, buy clothes, I'm good.

[698] And I really was like, good.

[699] And then things happen.

[700] You get a roll or whatever and things kind of take off.

[701] Then you have money.

[702] And then what?

[703] So I was always very scared about that kind of strutting.

[704] Well, what I do, this was kind of at play in the opiate relapse.

[705] I think some people might have thought like, oh, I get it.

[706] Like all of a sudden you had this huge podcast and that kind of went to your head.

[707] And it's true, but not in that way.

[708] It was just I could lean on something.

[709] You lean.

[710] And the inevitable consequence.

[711] of leaning is laziness and when we talked about how the attic can so perfectly come up with the story that finally makes sense and gives permission yeah the real lie in it for me is all those machinations are how i will get away with it how will i do this where either no one knows or it doesn't affect my life yeah and i always leave out how will i feel if i succeed at all this that's the part i never want to bring in like oh by the way you'll feel worse than you feel right now forget getting away with it forget managing it you'll feel a void yeah that's displeasurable and not preferable to your current state all the stuff that we're talking about is all in the soup of it and the truth of the matter is the perspective now has totally changed that's the thing with progressive sobriety and i said this recently it was like don't leave before the miracle happens i'm like what the fuck does that mean like what big miracle happens and the realization at least for me personally is it's not one big miracle.

[712] It's a bunch of miracles.

[713] And they keep happening.

[714] And they actually get more and more and more.

[715] And you're like now at eight years plus sobriety, things are happening now that could never happen at six years, couldn't have happened at four years.

[716] Tony Hopkins, who I think is a well -known sober guy.

[717] A pillar.

[718] When he said to me, it was like, how fucking great is it in the word like this?

[719] And I was like, what do you mean?

[720] Like, what a great way of putting it?

[721] What does that mean?

[722] He goes, was just edgy, just angry motherfuckers.

[723] And I go, what?

[724] Like, I've never heard this.

[725] That's what's great about this.

[726] I'm all like, hey, man, like, do you meditate today?

[727] And then he goes, yeah, guided the right way.

[728] We have such a drive to do shit.

[729] Like, we're interested in everything.

[730] We're insatiably curious.

[731] We want to get in there.

[732] But not guided the right way.

[733] It's horrible.

[734] Bing.

[735] Literally, I was like, I want to hang around with you all the time because that's the mentality of sobriety that I had never understood for me it was like if you get sober dude you got to stay home right right right right you have to wave at people living how is it is it fun i'm sober and i'm like how can it possibly be as fun as being a sito rat in santa barbara punk rock surfing motherfucker getting kicked out of school we used to hang out at this place, Santa Barbara High, called The Gate.

[736] And I remember the tennis coach saying, see those guys over there?

[737] That's what you don't want to be in this lifetime.

[738] And I literally heard it.

[739] There was a pride.

[740] I was like, yeah.

[741] Of course.

[742] It's the same punk rock thing.

[743] Like, I'm going to take myself out of the game you're playing.

[744] And in fact, when you're critical of it, it's more proof for me that I somehow have made the right choice.

[745] Totally.

[746] I want to go back to that miracle thing because I don't think I've thought about it in a way until you just said it, like these little micro miracles.

[747] Yeah.

[748] I'm always preparing for the moment where, the shit hits the fan but in the absence of consistent wreckage which i constantly created when i was fucked up right but i think over time what time can give you is like there hasn't been any shit so what am i preparing for you flip the thing to like i haven't seen any chaos or carnage in a minute maybe life could be that you're just kind of getting little micro hits of that proof that no there's like this whole other version of life i think there's another thing in the middle there too where you're like wow there's not chaos and then when there's not chaos you create your own chaos.

[749] Big time.

[750] So the miracle thing for me is humility starts to feel really attractive because I go, fuck yeah, another lesson.

[751] And I know I'm going to get the revelation and I know I'm going to like the revelation because it's not only going to make my life better, but it's going to make other people's life better around me. And that's a whole different thing that started to happen that has never been a part of my life.

[752] For me, it's been about like, yeah, I read more books than you.

[753] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[754] Yeah, I'm writing more shit than you.

[755] I'm working harder.

[756] I sleep two hours a night.

[757] What do you sleep?

[758] There wouldn't have been room in this room for both of us.

[759] No, there wouldn't.

[760] Ten years ago.

[761] There wouldn't.

[762] Oh, you read all the Bukowski books?

[763] Did you read the biographies?

[764] All of them.

[765] Oh, yeah, did you go over to his house where he grew up on Edgemont?

[766] Went to Lowell, Massachusetts for Kerouac.

[767] Have you typed a letter on Sean Penn's typewriter that he owns a Bukowski?

[768] You probably have.

[769] I'm making shit up.

[770] Sean's my buddy.

[771] And by the way, in this community, then how did I try to read?

[772] create sitirats.

[773] So me, Sean, Mickey Rourke, another version of that.

[774] All my idols.

[775] Well, you're looking at 87 and Mickey's hanging out with Hells Angels.

[776] Now that you have space and you look back and you can laugh at it because it's funny.

[777] You're like, nobody can hang around the Hells Angels and think they're a Hells Angel for any amount of time because the Hells Angels will remind you you have nothing to do with this.

[778] That's right.

[779] Oh, I'm sure you would know too.

[780] I remember I got so geeky interest in the fact that Belushi hung out with the outlaws and they came to the SNL taping and the Hells Angels were going to fire bomb.

[781] I was like, well, look at this cross -pollination of everything I love.

[782] But then you look back at it and you're like, those are great things that kind of propels you into being more curious, reading more.

[783] I just have come to terms with this.

[784] My motive, unfortunately, was first I had to be tough.

[785] Like, physically I had to be not afraid.

[786] And then it was I got an argument with someone when I was 19 and they blasted me. I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about had to do with history, and I thought to myself, I cannot get out maneuvered like this ever again.

[787] Intellectually, I got to go to college.

[788] I went to college to have control over that, too.

[789] I read all the books so that you couldn't get me into a corner.

[790] Totally.

[791] I wish it was just some other motivation, but it was like, whatever the battlefield is.

[792] And that goes back into that thing that you were talking about, of like, Jack of all Trades, Master of Nunn?

[793] Sure.

[794] Why?

[795] I can blend into any group.

[796] I got enough information in every skill to be able to maybe out -talk, even to the point, by the way, of going to like therapy and being able to out therapy therapists.

[797] Yep.

[798] Which I've done numerous times.

[799] And you've talked yourself out of not only like hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars, but for what?

[800] And that's my vanity too.

[801] Because if I were to let them come to a conclusion, I didn't see myself, I would be embarrassed.

[802] Yeah.

[803] So how are they going to help me?

[804] Here was my problem.

[805] Here's what I figured out.

[806] There was my solution.

[807] Thanks for listening.

[808] Thanks for listening.

[809] And can I help you?

[810] where that's the ultimate win, they go, God, it's funny you mentioned that because my wife the other day and I'm like, yes.

[811] Like, I don't think ever, if you call this public, I don't think that I've ever admitted this amount of...

[812] Pathos.

[813] Yeah, pathos.

[814] Of the true pathos of what a human fallible being goes through like us.

[815] And it's a different version.

[816] Like even though we're similar.

[817] Your version is a very different version than my version.

[818] But it's the fascination ultimately to me of how people navigate through this life.

[819] You're given this gift.

[820] By the way, may end today or tomorrow or whatever.

[821] You're not sure, but on the average, 70, 80 years.

[822] And you're given this incredible gift of consciousness.

[823] What are you going to do with it?

[824] And that's what's happening now when you're not in perpetual reaction of it.

[825] Like, are there things that you can really enjoy?

[826] And then on top of it are there things that you can give other people that bring them joy i always love that saying you want self -esteem do esteemable acts yeah yeah saying can't read yourself into self -esteem can't think yourself into it you actually have to do shit you'll know if it's an esteemable act if you don't want to do it that's how i know like oh i don't want to do this and i'm going to do it there's a friend of mine that passed and he passed naturally was a sober guy 19 years 18 years sober and he had a heart attack the other day and he's passed and he has two young kids anyway there was a fundraiser or like a go fund or whatever yeah and i gave money to it this morning and there was a moment yes that i caught myself do you want your name oh to show up on the thing and i was like no that's the kind of thing i wrestle with all the time heaven forbid i do something that someone doesn't observe and give me credit for i'm talking about why even do anything right so as a practice i try to not get credit for shit right it's fucking hard now i'm thinking in my head wait i didn't do that this morning But I told you just now, but I still told you.

[827] You scumbag.

[828] Okay, the one thing I wanted to talk about really quick.

[829] So you were primarily with mom a lot, right?

[830] Mostly, yeah.

[831] And I was raised by a single mom.

[832] She's the hero in my life story.

[833] My father was the villain.

[834] That was incomplete.

[835] I now realized my day was pretty great in a lot of ways.

[836] My mom wasn't perfect.

[837] But she had this belief in me. She just thought I was going to walk on water one day.

[838] And the only voice that kept asking me to get sober in my 20s or made me feel bad was really never self -generated.

[839] It was really just if my mother saw this, knowing she was here to observe me, to this day, I've said this to my therapist, like, there's still an inkling of me that without her here, I don't know who I'm doing it all for, the good stuff.

[840] But your mom died at 27.

[841] And I wonder if you were like, oh, there's no one watching that I care about anymore.

[842] Yeah, it's the opposite for me. Oh, I was very close to my mother as my mother's drinking buddy from a very early age.

[843] I mean, look, man, psychologically, it's genius because it's kind of like a surrogate husband kind of thing and it's like, if you do these things, you are my star.

[844] And my brother really got the kind of shit in of the stick.

[845] I remember my dad telling you, you had five minutes to learn how to read.

[846] That was it.

[847] It was like, what is this word?

[848] It's a D, dog, you know, and you just did it.

[849] Whatever it is, I figured out a way to do it.

[850] The tone that she set is you got to be here now.

[851] There's no such thing as process.

[852] The irony is this drunken motorcycle riding cowboy kind of thing that I grew up in and then now has been cultivated that's leaked professionally into what I'm most known for is my mother's heaven.

[853] But her dying at 27 was the worst thing that ever happened, but at the same time, it was a liberation because I didn't have to keep going down that road.

[854] Things got gnarly for a couple years, and then I got sober, and it makes sense that it would happen like that because I was reacting to her death, and then I started to get me back.

[855] Was your mom at all like, because I'm getting an image nonstop, and it's my favorite movie, Mask.

[856] I love that movie.

[857] Oh, my God.

[858] Love that movie.

[859] I watched that movie no less than 20 times.

[860] It's the greatest.

[861] It's the greatest.

[862] Did she have a share fantasy?

[863] Was she like a little share -like?

[864] She was her own character so much so that my dad would go on talk shows and they would only talk about my mother.

[865] Because she was so interesting.

[866] I mean, dude, I'll show you pictures of me in a crib with mid -sized cougars and shit.

[867] Oh, yeah.

[868] No, no, no. We had to clean wolf cages.

[869] My brother got 60 stitches in his leg.

[870] Oh, my God.

[871] Oh, yeah.

[872] No, it was no fucking joke, man. Wow.

[873] You can't imagine how much Monica and I talk about this.

[874] We do.

[875] We're obsessed with Siegfried and Roy.

[876] Oh, yeah.

[877] Manichore, the tiger.

[878] Bud Applehance was the manager of our ranch for a little while.

[879] When my mom got nervous, she would laugh hysterically.

[880] Now, my mom was five foot two, Texan.

[881] Narlie, the deepest voice you've ever heard, she talked like this.

[882] Josh.

[883] And then we had parrots around the house that all talk like her.

[884] So you'd hear Josh, I go, what?

[885] You're Josh.

[886] It's a miracle you're here.

[887] It's amazing, actually.

[888] So we had a tiger for a second, and it was like a just way station.

[889] So it was there for a week or whatever.

[890] And she said, Bud, get in there, tough, tough, tough country guy.

[891] He got in there, and the lion starts getting closer and closer.

[892] He goes, what do I do?

[893] And she starts chuckling.

[894] She goes, just stay there definitely don't move, right?

[895] And the lion comes over, like in slow motion, lifts its mouth.

[896] You see the incisors are like that long.

[897] And then slowly closes down.

[898] And the guy goes, his teeth are going.

[899] in my leg.

[900] His teeth are going in my leg.

[901] And she goes, don't move.

[902] Don't move.

[903] And she starts laughing hysterically.

[904] And I'm literally sitting there as like an eight -year -old kid.

[905] I'm like, this is fucked up.

[906] These incisors are totally in his thigh and then lifted up and then walked over there.

[907] She was right?

[908] That was literally all the time.

[909] That was baseline.

[910] Oh, my God.

[911] So I was 24.

[912] I come home.

[913] My mom had a chimp.

[914] And it was the only animal that she got attached to like really super attached male or female chimp it was a male chimp and the chimp had gone from adolescent to adult so the whole thing was you have to get rid of this chimp now you can't keep the chimp anymore so dangerous so she said we go clean reggie's cage with reggie in it so i go look i know reggie well enough i go in the cage i clean his cage he's like hitting my head oh my i have the key i'm going to the door it's all good and i go to put the key in the lock and he comes up behind me and it goes like that.

[915] And the key, I'll never forget, goes flying.

[916] And we both dive to the key.

[917] The hands are scrambling.

[918] I lose the key immediately.

[919] And I go, Mom.

[920] And she goes, what?

[921] And I go, Reggie hit the key out of my hand.

[922] I can't get out of here.

[923] Like, bring another key down.

[924] She starts laughing.

[925] I don't have another key.

[926] And I turn around to him, and he's sitting there, and he's like, they're intelligent.

[927] And he's like, I got you.

[928] So I get down and I'm looking down.

[929] And my mom's still laughing.

[930] up there.

[931] So you get submissive, because people didn't see that.

[932] So you kind of got a little submissive in that moment?

[933] You get a little submissive.

[934] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[935] And then you start to assess.

[936] It's like 10 times what we've been talking about wanting to be in the center.

[937] There's a blackout thing that happens.

[938] And they're 100 % wild.

[939] And five times stronger than you.

[940] There's a handful of animals that I don't have a fight back strategy.

[941] It's a get eaten as quick as possible.

[942] Yeah.

[943] Die as quickly as you can die.

[944] You've ever been next to a male lion in real life, you go, No illusion.

[945] Just please go straight for the neck.

[946] What happened with Reggie?

[947] She went and got bolt cutters and somebody came over and I got out and it was all good.

[948] Because he could have gotten wild with you at that point.

[949] He could have gotten wild.

[950] My mom died and Reggie died almost a year to the day and I had him and there was a chimp guy that I know and he had spinal meningitis.

[951] We didn't know what it was and we took him to a real hospital like an actual emergency hospital which they wouldn't let him go in.

[952] Oh, shocker.

[953] We convinced a doctor to go outside, so he was on a gurney outside in the parking lot.

[954] A chimp.

[955] This now sounds like a cartoon.

[956] I said, don't give him an opiate because he won't be able to garner the strength to be able to take a breath because he was having a lot of trouble breathing.

[957] So once that happened, I was like, okay, he's on his way out for sure and he's struggling and all that.

[958] So I put him in the back of my car and I spooned him in the back of my car and that's where I was for his last break.

[959] Okay.

[960] Do you have like a lot of resentment towards your mom that she kept you in danger every day?

[961] I think I did.

[962] I remember resentment is the word.

[963] It's just reaction, which I think some of us have more than others.

[964] There's this story.

[965] And then you go, I'm living a story.

[966] Now I could hybrid two things of like sobriety and then this and why do you drink in the first place, it's order to be able to be less afraid uninhibited and be somebody who is not invisible or somebody who's validated in some way.

[967] Oh, my God, Josh is crazy.

[968] Well, if Josh is crazy, Josh exists.

[969] And my mom was the same way.

[970] My mom was a full -blown character.

[971] And had my mom not been that character, who would she have been just another person?

[972] And that's not something you do in my family.

[973] So do you resent it in the way that you go, what?

[974] would you replace it with?

[975] You want your parents to be a safety net.

[976] You want to be able to be a kid and make mistakes, which are developmental necessities to healthily grow into an adult.

[977] When you're unable to be able to have the padding of healthy parents.

[978] Protection, yeah.

[979] Protection.

[980] Then you're not hitting any of those milestones.

[981] So you're parenting your parents by the time you're sick.

[982] You're like, these people can't fucking take care of themselves.

[983] That's when you become a control frequently.

[984] I mean, that manifests in so many different ways that I was just talking to my wife about, like my shoes have to be in a certain spot.

[985] I have shirts, color coordinated and all that, but I wear the same fucking thing every day.

[986] Right.

[987] Heaven forbid you get the wrong black t -shirt out.

[988] You know what I mean?

[989] So I don't know if resentful is the right word.

[990] Maybe.

[991] Well, I actually think that would end up being a part of some therapy still down the road for you and I feel like I'm a bit on the verge of it, which is like making space to be angry about it.

[992] Yeah.

[993] Like, right now it's just like i like who i am those things made me who i am i don't know if i don't have the fucked up childhood you and i are sitting here talking but making room for the like no that was unfair yeah that fucking sucked and i can tell you about it and i have a timeline like it sounds like you do but i just for the very first time two months ago with the new therapist i told the whole timeline and i started crying that's never happened so i'm like oh i intellectually have it all because i got to jump to the end thing so you can't embarrass me by knowing it before i do but in doing that i never have the emotional experience of any of that yeah i'm trying to get into that it's interesting because i have very much so and when i stopped doing therapy it was therapeutic for me interesting because i did so much therapy and i dived into every type of therapy there was from breath work to i mean hitting the baton the thing and the whole thing and crying and being with 12 men and holding hands and guys that all look like meth addicts and there was a softball there always below my solar plexes, my lower abdomen.

[994] And there was a therapy that I went through that something happened and the visual was an infant child, totally skinned, right?

[995] So it was just exposed nerves, raw skin, screaming like, I mean, the worst, most piercing scream you've ever heard.

[996] And that's the thing that popped into my mind in the middle of this therapy.

[997] And that threw me into a crying jag and that softball was never there.

[998] again and I've never felt it again.

[999] Through what version of therapy?

[1000] I don't know.

[1001] It was some whatever it was.

[1002] Yeah, that I can't remember right now.

[1003] Really?

[1004] But yeah.

[1005] So I think the therapy and getting into it and all that can be helpful in some ways that I've experienced personally.

[1006] But I also think now I'm back to like it was what it was.

[1007] Intellectually, if I stay out of my head and try to stay in my art, I'm good.

[1008] If I remember that every day, if I deal with my kids through my head, I deal with with them from a parenting standpoint, completely different than if I go, okay, bring that down to here.

[1009] Okay, now make breakfast.

[1010] Okay, two last things.

[1011] Then we're going to talk about the show.

[1012] We should start this podcast.

[1013] Rob, hit record.

[1014] I know, I got to touch on a one or two professional things.

[1015] One is just, I had never been asked to audition for the Colin brothers, but when no country for all men came around, they were open to seeing a bunch of people they had never been open to seat.

[1016] And they were allowing a lot of self -tapings.

[1017] So I made mine in my one -bedroom apartment in Santa Monica.

[1018] I live in a shit hole.

[1019] And I remember shooting it.

[1020] I've never shot a fucking audition.

[1021] Nobody did back then.

[1022] Right.

[1023] And I mean, I shot it.

[1024] And I shot it like a scene.

[1025] And I've talked to a bunch of other actors that also did that.

[1026] Did you do that?

[1027] Did you do that story?

[1028] I don't.

[1029] No, I don't.

[1030] I was doing Grindhouse with Robert Rodriguez.

[1031] 2007, it's everything.

[1032] It's Grindhouse in the Valley of Ella.

[1033] I mean, unreal.

[1034] The reason I got Grindhouse was because Robert was a buddy and we had kind of gone through this whole thing together and he came in for Guillermo del Toro and started doing second unit for Mimick, which was Guillermo del Toro's first American movie.

[1035] Anyway, so we're on set.

[1036] He was always carrying around a camera.

[1037] And I said, look, I got an audition.

[1038] Sam Shepard told me about the book.

[1039] I went and read the book the next day.

[1040] And then I heard they were doing a movie.

[1041] And I said, we can't get there.

[1042] So can you film me?

[1043] Robert Rodriguez.

[1044] On one of your things.

[1045] And he said, why don't we just use our camera?

[1046] And they had a million -dollar Genesis camera.

[1047] So Robert shot it.

[1048] Oh, my God.

[1049] Quentin directed it.

[1050] Oh, my God.

[1051] I feel way less bad about not getting it, too.

[1052] And I did it with Marley Shelton, who played Carla Jean.

[1053] We sent it to them.

[1054] They got it.

[1055] And their response was, who lit it?

[1056] They never even commented on the actor.

[1057] No. It was an immediate no. No. So they said, who lit it?

[1058] Because it was so beautifully done as opposed to your Sony that was still so amateur.

[1059] It was literally the greatest looking audition tape of all times.

[1060] So that was a no. And then somehow I was up at my son's school in Santa Barbara, and I got a call from my agent because my agent had gotten Ethan's number.

[1061] And they were having a last audition round.

[1062] and I got a call that said I got a hold of Ethan he's going to do a favor you have to learn six scenes it was 10 o 'clock at night and you have to be down in L .A. at 9 o 'clock the next morning and I learned those scenes I was coming down from Santa Barbara in the morning I waited until boot barn opened up I went and got a hat I scraped it on the parking lot put the hat on I had my jean shit on and I waited in there and then there was somebody who was in the room with them and they came out and they were laughing up.

[1063] And I went, I'm fucked.

[1064] Like, I'm never going to get this.

[1065] But I refused to look up.

[1066] And that actor called me after I got it and said, there was a vibe when I came out into the hallway.

[1067] And I saw you in this place.

[1068] And I was like, oh, shit.

[1069] And I'm so happy for you and congrats.

[1070] Anyway, I went in there.

[1071] I auditioned.

[1072] I think I did two or three scenes.

[1073] Joel was staring at me the whole time.

[1074] He never reacted.

[1075] I talked to Ethan about his poetry book or whatever, like, intellectual thing.

[1076] Are you still writing poetry?

[1077] You know what I mean?

[1078] And then Ethan asked me, can you do a West Texas accent?

[1079] And I go, I was just doing it.

[1080] And he goes, okay, good.

[1081] So it's already fucking weird and off.

[1082] And then I got to call at noon that day that said, from both of them saying, are you interested in playing this role?

[1083] Get the fuck out.

[1084] How do I not know that?

[1085] That's a great Hollywood story.

[1086] And then two days later, I was riding my motorcycle.

[1087] I teaboned a car on.

[1088] Highland, I was flying in the air thinking, holy shit, I really wanted to work with the Coins.

[1089] I love the Coins.

[1090] I landed.

[1091] I snapped my collarbone in half.

[1092] Two weeks later, I started, and the whole movie, my collarbone is literally clicking the whole time.

[1093] That's helpful for that movie, though.

[1094] Because it was my right arm, and that was the only reason I was able to do it because Lou Ellen gets shot in his right arm.

[1095] Anyway, that's the story.

[1096] Oh, my God.

[1097] That's awesome.

[1098] It's crazy.

[1099] It's crazy.

[1100] Because I know they were really frustrated.

[1101] I they were really frustrated and looking everywhere.

[1102] I left that no country audition.

[1103] I didn't think for a million years that I had it, but I said that was enough.

[1104] I just spent 30 of the most wonderful minutes with people I respect so much and it was so easy with them.

[1105] It wasn't complicated.

[1106] It wasn't full of ego.

[1107] It wasn't any of that.

[1108] That's what I came to learn later because I did three movies in a short with them.

[1109] There's never been even a modicum of pretense.

[1110] don't know enough about them to say this, but what appears to me is they love to get people who know who they are and let them be them.

[1111] They seem to be so confident that they're excited to see this weird marriage of who you are and their thing is.

[1112] Yeah, and to me, there's no two people that are better at casting.

[1113] You're so right.

[1114] And by the way, I don't know if you knew this, but Heath Ledger was supposed to do that role.

[1115] No kidding.

[1116] It wasn't that he died.

[1117] He pulled out of that role.

[1118] He was like, I don't want to work right now.

[1119] So I knew him through sobriety a little bit.

[1120] That dude was so beautiful beautiful i've seen this with a handful of dudes the way to the world was oppressive he's open wound yes he feels everything and i told my son that at one point and my son's by the way three plus years sober which is amazing and then what's happened in that sobriety but i remember telling my son who's an incredible artist you're so sensitive that it's the greatest thing and it's the worst thing totally because you're going to feel everything and you get to feel everything it's both yeah some days it will be hell and some days it will be heaven and that was heath because he reminds me a lot of how heath was big time stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare okay i encourage people i don't do this often there's only like a few people i encourage to follow them on instagram snoop dogs one of them Shaquille o 'neal i just have to you must okay i aspire to be living there's always i aspire to be living life like this motherfucker lives life he is delighted he's the opposite of sensitive to everything it seems if he goes to dairy queen he'll start dancing he'll sing a song you learned five minutes ago and he'll look stupid and he's smiling and laughing and i'm like this guy i love him i love him i love him okay you you're one of my very favorite people on instagram i think i went to your page because i just fucking idolize you as an actor i think you're so cool but then i saw i following you on instagram it doesn't shock me now that i know you like Lukowski and you like literature you write so well your captions are so awesome when i read them i'm mad i didn't write them which is my ultimate compliment anytime i fucking hate someone for being better than me and then your ability to talk to that goddamn phone i'm so i think i tagged you i did it once in england not too long ago yeah yeah and i was like i'm going to try the josh brolin thing oh you did i remember this you're such a fucking great follow on instagram because you are this very beautiful kaleidoscopic, multi -dimensional, used to be a tough guy, trying to be a nice, engaged spiritual person.

[1121] I most enjoy watching someone like you do it because I relate to it a lot.

[1122] And then Instagram comes out.

[1123] It's kind of devastating in the way that it's used now because it's all about projecting an image and then you feed off that image and what's everybody else projecting and I have to be more like that you have a great medium to be able to hybrid a photograph an image and then write on that image and it was a great experiment yeah that's like when email first came out i was like we get to write letters again yeah yeah yeah i don't even have to talk on the phone and i'd write like 14 page long letters and i was into it and it was just another opportunity to express yourself or find a way to express yourself, whether it's self -absorbed or not.

[1124] Writing is the go -to.

[1125] The writing has been the go -to from as early as I can remember, and it was that, where am I in all this?

[1126] I took one of those master classes.

[1127] Oh, you did?

[1128] And then I got off the computer and I wrote the worst shit I've ever written.

[1129] Way back in the day, I think I was 21.

[1130] I took a class with Ginsburg.

[1131] I took an intensive with Ginsburg.

[1132] And he hated me. I mean, he literally, he just didn't like me. He liked other people, but he didn't like me. And what do you learn from that?

[1133] What do you try to grab onto and all this?

[1134] And when I took this master class, I was trying to write like she had taught.

[1135] And again, I got away from my voice and there's a music to it.

[1136] There's my own music to it.

[1137] And it's almost like when I would direct theater, a lot of times, without even knowing it, I would direct theater and I'd have my head down.

[1138] Like, does this rhythm?

[1139] And that just worked for me. It was like, is this the music?

[1140] Is this the composition that I'm intending?

[1141] It's fun when you start to find your own voice, man. And it doesn't matter what other people say.

[1142] Like, I mean, I love Instagram because people, obviously, they can say whatever they want without any consequence.

[1143] But can you just write a line?

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] Can you just, like, just comment on the picture?

[1146] You know what I mean?

[1147] Do you have to write so much?

[1148] I know.

[1149] I go, you don't have to read it.

[1150] All you got to do is scroll past it.

[1151] Unfollow.

[1152] I'm okay with it.

[1153] Instagram didn't come pre -downloaded with my fucking page.

[1154] I only follow you.

[1155] Can you do what I want you to do?

[1156] I would, like, call these people out.

[1157] Not people would say that, but you know, you'd get gnarly political shit.

[1158] And I would say, dude, fucking call me. And my wife was like, what are you doing?

[1159] And I would be on the phone with these guys for an hour.

[1160] And usually I became friends with them because we would figure something out.

[1161] And you go, okay, let's get out of the extremes.

[1162] Let's come down into the humanity of it.

[1163] And let's have that conversation.

[1164] Now, thank you.

[1165] That was a long, long walk while you're here.

[1166] But I'm delighted now.

[1167] before we even talk about Outer Range, which is coming out with post -haste, very quickly.

[1168] I don't think I'd just use that correctly.

[1169] I don't know what you just said.

[1170] I don't know what it meant.

[1171] You know, they'll go like, come post -hate, like quickly.

[1172] Oh, okay.

[1173] That's like a Western -y thing.

[1174] We didn't understand what you meant.

[1175] But we learned something.

[1176] But we did learn something.

[1177] I have a hunch.

[1178] Did you read Where Men Win Glory?

[1179] Yes, of course.

[1180] Incredible.

[1181] And I thought I didn't like that guy, by the way.

[1182] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1183] I was like, eh, something stinks.

[1184] Why would you do that?

[1185] Well, that's why you got to read it.

[1186] That's why you got to read it.

[1187] Wait, why?

[1188] Pat Tillman, he quit the Cardinals, joined the military.

[1189] Here were my two explanations, intentions.

[1190] I got to figure out people's intentions.

[1191] A, this guy's a religious nut, and he wants to be on a holy war.

[1192] And he hates Muslims.

[1193] That's what this is about.

[1194] Or B, this guy has fucking done something so dark.

[1195] He's got to atone on this crazy level, very addicty level.

[1196] Wasn't those things.

[1197] What do you think it was?

[1198] That dude really had a level of integrity that I didn't really think existed.

[1199] And patriotism and all that kind of stuff and wanting to give back.

[1200] and the idea of leaving millions of dollars of contract and saying, I want to go do something for my country.

[1201] Which he had already done, by the way, when the St. Louis Rams offered him a multi -year deal, which the Cardinals wouldn't do.

[1202] He already had walked away from like $8 million because of fucking integrity, because the Cardinals picked him and no one else would.

[1203] You're going to be pissed at me. You knew him.

[1204] So, no. Oh, okay.

[1205] I wish.

[1206] You've never seen the documentary.

[1207] I have.

[1208] I loved it.

[1209] You know, I did the narration for the documentary.

[1210] That's why I brought it up.

[1211] I saw, oh, you narrated the Tillman story.

[1212] And I thought, well, you must have read the book.

[1213] Amir Bar.

[1214] Lev came to me and said, well, you do this?

[1215] And then I read the book.

[1216] And I was like, just crying, crying.

[1217] And I was like, who is this guy?

[1218] What happened?

[1219] As in Krakauer.

[1220] The greatest, nonfiction writer.

[1221] I wish that motherfucker would write more and more and more.

[1222] I know.

[1223] Okay, I would arrange.

[1224] First of all, I saw Larry Trillings involved with this.

[1225] Did you have any dealings with Larry Trilling?

[1226] I did.

[1227] He was the main director, producer on Parenthood.

[1228] And I could talk to Larry Trelling until I passed out.

[1229] Dude, I'm completely blown away right now.

[1230] Larry Trilling, almost single -handedly.

[1231] saved this show.

[1232] He directed the seventh and eighth episode.

[1233] We became very, very close.

[1234] I think he's one of the most trustworthy people I've ever met.

[1235] And what he brought to this show, we will never, ever be able to repay him for.

[1236] That just made my whole fucking day because Larry is just the greatest, greatest guy.

[1237] I fucking root for him so much.

[1238] A lot of times in shows, at least in my experience, and I have a tough time watching shows just because I have a three -year -old and a one -year -old.

[1239] A lot of times they will start strong and then they get weaker.

[1240] show for sure gets better and better and better.

[1241] And to me, the two best episodes we have are seven and eight.

[1242] And that's because of Larry Trilling, period.

[1243] There's no reason for me to sell Larry Trilling.

[1244] There's no reason other than he's a great human being.

[1245] He is.

[1246] Is he single?

[1247] He's married and he's got three great kids.

[1248] I love the dude.

[1249] I am so delighted that that was your reaction to him.

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] Okay.

[1252] So the show, that makes a ton of sense because the first episode of Outer Range, you have to lay a ton of track.

[1253] It's a very, very complex.

[1254] complicated show premise -wise it's a westernish it's cowboyie it's a rant it's yellowstone yeah do you watch yellowstone yeah my daughter's on yellowstone oh my god they know this the tough chick yeah she's the tough chick she is awesome i forgot that okay so you start kind of like something we're familiar with which is that but then it has this bonker sci -fi twist that i can't wait now and so i'm watching it and i'm like he's great in it that person's great in it do i care about this i watch yellowstone yellowstone has that as well.

[1255] You know, I'm being critical as I do.

[1256] And then plot takes the reins.

[1257] And then I'm like, okay, great.

[1258] This is something entirely different.

[1259] By the time it ends, I was like, what now?

[1260] Where the fuck are we going?

[1261] What's going to happen?

[1262] I'm so hooked.

[1263] This very clearly is like, oh, there's going to be a very intricate long -term story told over the course of this.

[1264] Everybody's good in it.

[1265] You have really good actors in it.

[1266] Lily Taylor, Tom Pelfrey, Lewis Pullman, but Imogen poots to me, there's something about our thing that's really, really fun.

[1267] Well, that's the chemistry lottery, right?

[1268] And then you see somebody like what you were talking about before, you were like somebody who's, you can tell has been an actor, not that anybody on our set is really like that, but somebody who's been an actor their whole life and somebody who's a real person.

[1269] Yes, who's explored some other things.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] It's like, I'm curious.

[1272] Sure.

[1273] As your body, as your new friend.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] What you really think.

[1276] Because I like to know what people really think.

[1277] You know, I remember, like, watching shows like Breaking Bad.

[1278] And I remember seeing it.

[1279] I was like, oh, this is cool.

[1280] And Brian's really good.

[1281] And then as it went on, I couldn't not watch it.

[1282] Like, I missed that feeling.

[1283] You know, all the movies and the Oscars, and we're talking about all these movies.

[1284] And there's a movie, Paul Thomas Anderson last night said, have you seen the worst person in the world?

[1285] I was like, yes.

[1286] Oh, I haven't.

[1287] I haven't, but I heard it some movies.

[1288] Is that a show or a movie?

[1289] It's a movie.

[1290] And I met the girl, and I was like a little fan.

[1291] And I was like, you're so good.

[1292] You're so raw.

[1293] And it was one of those things that you watch going, Jesus Christ, like somebody structured this in a way that just keeps hooking you.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] I don't want this to end.

[1296] Coda was one of those weird things for me where I watched Coda.

[1297] And I was like, you know, I get it.

[1298] I didn't see it.

[1299] I don't even know what it is.

[1300] That's the movie with the deaf cast.

[1301] Oh, I didn't even know this.

[1302] Very, very good.

[1303] What are you doing?

[1304] Well, I have kids, too.

[1305] What am I going to go to a fucking movie?

[1306] I'm picking TV because it's a one -hour installments.

[1307] That's it.

[1308] Like, in my real life, I have a seven -year -old and a nine -year -old as of yesterday.

[1309] When am I going to watch something that's two hours long?

[1310] Yeah, yeah.

[1311] It's not going to happen.

[1312] But I can watch an hour.

[1313] Do you like to cry in movies?

[1314] I have a huge block with crying that life has forced me to get more in touch with.

[1315] And I'm excited about it.

[1316] Oh, I'm a big cry.

[1317] I am jealous.

[1318] It's been a block since I was a little kid.

[1319] I would not give someone the pleasure of seeing me cry.

[1320] Yeah.

[1321] When your dad's spanking you and the only weapon you have is, I won't give this to you.

[1322] It got so lodged.

[1323] Aaron Weekly, I thought it was dying of cancer.

[1324] Three years ago, he was in the hospital.

[1325] He had a mask.

[1326] It wasn't that.

[1327] It was an infection.

[1328] Whatever, it all worked out.

[1329] But there was a day where I was flying home to see him for the last time.

[1330] And he hadn't gotten sober.

[1331] And I was heartbroken.

[1332] And I was crying a lot.

[1333] Also, he cries at flash mobs when people do synchronize dances and post them on the internet.

[1334] But that's what I'm saying.

[1335] That's interesting to me. Is that true or did you just make that up?

[1336] And do you know why I'll let you guess for a change?

[1337] What?

[1338] Why does that make me cry?

[1339] Because there's joy in it.

[1340] There's a bravery.

[1341] It's so mean this world.

[1342] And when kids get together and they go, I don't give a fuck who's going to write what in the comments.

[1343] And I'm just going to show you my soul.

[1344] It gets me. I'll admit something to you.

[1345] And that's that when you're an actor and you're like, oh, I have to cry during a scene.

[1346] So when I have to cry, I won't say what it is.

[1347] But when I have to cry, I can't think of something sad.

[1348] I think of something brave.

[1349] Oh, that's beautiful.

[1350] Even when I say.

[1351] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1352] I love you.

[1353] That's really special.

[1354] So you are a baby.

[1355] I know that.

[1356] So she's seen the pattern a million times.

[1357] I'm watching one of these videos.

[1358] It's the Olympians on the airplane, and they're fucking saying, You just said, here's my number.

[1359] So call me, baby.

[1360] And then my eyes well up, a couple tears fall.

[1361] And then I start laughing uncontrollably because I can't believe I'm in this state.

[1362] That's why can I tell you, my very favorite moment.

[1363] If I had to just pick one moment in all of acting history, it used to be Brando adjusting his chair and on the waterfront, But it became Mickey Rourke in the wrestler because he trashes this place he works.

[1364] He gets in a van.

[1365] He looks at himself in the rearview mirror.

[1366] Every actor in the world is going to start crying.

[1367] He looks at himself and he starts laughing in a way that was so mirror neuron.

[1368] I'm like, that's real.

[1369] That's me. I embarrass myself and I start laughing at myself.

[1370] And I'm like, he did it.

[1371] So that is the only thing I'm interested in anymore.

[1372] That's a great goal.

[1373] that we've talked about.

[1374] To me, it goes into a place where you go, yeah, that's the real.

[1375] And then when you see a performance like that, and Mickey, who's so amazing, and I've known him forever, and he's seen me go through everything, and I've seen him go through everything.

[1376] But when you see somebody open that much, the bravery, and we're talking about, like, Olympics and all that, and you're seeing people who don't know, which, by the way, I'm a total sap when it comes to that shit, and I love it.

[1377] But when I see that in Mickey, it brings up that thing in me that I go, I can go deeper.

[1378] I want to go deeper.

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] It's so inspiring.

[1381] There's the famous Brandon moment, too.

[1382] I think on the waterfront where he finds out his brother was going to kill him.

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] And he was supposed to cry.

[1385] And there was a big debate between Ilya and Kazan and him.

[1386] I might find out my brother's trying to kill me. One can't compute that.

[1387] I'm going to laugh.

[1388] That conviction, that's inspiring.

[1389] There's no set way that people respond to shit.

[1390] And if there was, how boring would life be?

[1391] That's my pet peeve on all these murder shows when the cops go, well, he wasn't talking like someone whose wife was just killed.

[1392] I'm like, how the fuck do you know how someone's supposed to talk when their wife's Was your wife killed?

[1393] Totally, right.

[1394] Drives me bonkers.

[1395] I watch those documentaries a lot, those murder documentaries.

[1396] I'm trying to mellow out now.

[1397] It's horrible, man. And my wife and I get really into it.

[1398] They're so tasty.

[1399] They're so tasty.

[1400] I don't know it was called like the murder next door or something like this.

[1401] And this guy was like, I don't know what my wife is, my kids.

[1402] And there was a guy that came, like an IT guy, to look at the security cam in case she had come home.

[1403] Like, how did she walk in the door?

[1404] When did she leave?

[1405] Did anybody show up?

[1406] And it was that dude, not the cops.

[1407] That dude goes, that motherfucker's acting weird, man. Right.

[1408] Oh, wait.

[1409] Is this the one where he puts the woman and the kids in the tank?

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] I saw that.

[1412] By the way, I recommend it to only people who can handle it.

[1413] Because it fucked me. Have you seen it?

[1414] I haven't.

[1415] Oh, dude.

[1416] Like, it's a tough one.

[1417] But it's so good.

[1418] It's so good because, again, you're looking at somebody and you're like, how is it possible that they could be that person before?

[1419] And they're acting like that now.

[1420] And then that's revealed.

[1421] What?

[1422] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1423] I'm going to give you one compliment.

[1424] We're not going to address it.

[1425] We're going to move right on to outer range.

[1426] Yeah.

[1427] You're good in bed.

[1428] Thank you.

[1429] So are you.

[1430] That wasn't mining for it.

[1431] I'm great in bed.

[1432] Yep.

[1433] How do you know?

[1434] Because of that night?

[1435] The approval.

[1436] So the most valuable thing on the table is that you would be significantly more engaged, more in tune, more present, better than all the competitors.

[1437] Oh, I see what you're saying.

[1438] I see what you're saying.

[1439] Dude, you just literally deconstructed me in this whole conversation and you literally just had the revelation.

[1440] I'm like him.

[1441] I'm good and bad.

[1442] Therefore, he must.

[1443] be good and bad that's right that's right because i'm only in it for the approval that's it okay okay what last things do we want to say about out of range the fucking cast is outstanding i love the fucking world it's a crazy weird ride and there's so much going on i don't have any objectivity whatsoever i'm very proud of what we did on this show given that i haven't done anything like this for a long time 20 years ago i literally said i would rather not act than do tv right And it was for real.

[1444] So I started trading full time.

[1445] And then I traded for almost four years.

[1446] And did well.

[1447] And I did very well.

[1448] And I had a skill set around that.

[1449] And then other things happened.

[1450] And I got very lucky.

[1451] And I got into a medium that I love very much because you're in and out within six months.

[1452] Very atticy.

[1453] And then this thing came along.

[1454] And there was something, like I said, that was behaviorally interesting.

[1455] I like the hybrid of things.

[1456] I was a big Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov.

[1457] When I was young, those were the first books I read that I suddenly thought, wait, wait, so you don't have to live here all the time?

[1458] Right, right, right.

[1459] You can actually go off in your imagination and you can live there and then you can come back and it actually taints your reality and all that.

[1460] I always thought that was really interesting.

[1461] And then being somebody who's just unapologetically fascinated by what people will do in very strange, absurd situations.

[1462] Well, that's a point I want to make is that often on these shows, the devices.

[1463] the star the concepts the star and then the characters take a back seat to the concept it happens all the time and then occasionally the characters are the star and then the device is just there to perpetuate that story i would say game of thrones had a great job at that it was like i don't know about the white walkers i want to see them just when i need to see them so the characters can be in a different situation this is very true and dedicated to the characters beyond the concept yeah but it had to be something when you read it that was truly something you weren't going to be able to do anywhere else because not wanting to do TV, or at least not looking for it, not that you were too good for it, but when you read it where you're like, oh, not only was I looking for a Western and I wanted to do a Western because as Western -y, as people perceive me as at least professionally, I haven't done a lot of Westerns.

[1464] So that was one thing.

[1465] One, as I was really close with Sam Shepard.

[1466] So this reminded me, it kind of harkened back to early Sam Shepard when he would hybrid this kind of New York tone with this cowboy thing.

[1467] It's so weird.

[1468] you're playing at Grandpa, which is because that could have been another two -hour.

[1469] That's first.

[1470] I always say that this business has a weird way of reminding you how old you are, because you'll get sent something.

[1471] You're like, wait a man, what?

[1472] And then I did Dune.

[1473] And Dune was like, smile old man or whatever.

[1474] So it's all happening within the same, you know, year.

[1475] It's the reality.

[1476] It's the reality that sometimes I go down the street and I'm with my kids and they go, you, grandpa.

[1477] Sure, sure.

[1478] You're like, no, they're my kids.

[1479] Shockingly.

[1480] Thank you.

[1481] Yeah, very virile, very good in bed.

[1482] I want to prove it.

[1483] I get it, man. I don't dye my hair.

[1484] It's all good.

[1485] this to me is a big chance and that's all i'm interested in it's like i want it to fail miserably or i want people to go holy fuck totally josh this has been better than i was expecting and my fucking expectations were high this was awesome i'm completely like blown away and i don't know what just happened i'll allow it well just know that we're going to tell everyone we see that this was one of the best interviews ever so just have that in your cross yeah we'll see all right brother Long time coming, couldn't have been better.

[1486] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1487] Hello.

[1488] Hello.

[1489] Well, this will be dated, but we must talk about Easter.

[1490] Yeah, let's.

[1491] Mom, do you know Josh Brolin?

[1492] Am I crazy?

[1493] We're very similar, he and I. Yeah.

[1494] You have a lot of crossover, for sure.

[1495] Yeah.

[1496] Like, I almost want to say, I don't want to say it.

[1497] But most similar?

[1498] He's your dad.

[1499] He's my dad.

[1500] Most similar ever?

[1501] No. Bill Gates.

[1502] Bill Gates sent a very nice letter to our friend David Ferrier.

[1503] I read it to my mom.

[1504] So nice.

[1505] Such a feather in the cap.

[1506] He deserves it.

[1507] He does.

[1508] And who is David Ferrier?

[1509] You saw him in Portland.

[1510] He does a conspiracy show with us.

[1511] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1512] A buddy.

[1513] Yeah.

[1514] You're just getting enough from a nap, right?

[1515] No, I'm half down for one.

[1516] I'm tired too.

[1517] But you're visiting, which is so lovely, mom, you're here for a week.

[1518] What are your big plans?

[1519] I'm going to pick up the girls from school today, and I'm really excited about that because Carly said that you get the best scoop when you listen to them talk in the car.

[1520] Yeah, they're pretty on fire when they first get out.

[1521] A lot of gossip.

[1522] Sure, hot goss.

[1523] I also was telling her, she thinks it's because she's seen a video and a photo, but tell her does not do it justice.

[1524] Delta without a front, too.

[1525] is about us.

[1526] Oh, my God.

[1527] You can't.

[1528] It's just, I mean, she still doesn't have it, right?

[1529] Well, right.

[1530] And I told her I'm going to surgically remove whatever one grows in there.

[1531] Yeah, yeah.

[1532] Because it's just.

[1533] It's got to be permanent.

[1534] It's so cute.

[1535] And she knows how to work it, she looks at it, and she holds it, and she makes her eyes going, and she tilts her head.

[1536] And she knows you're biving on her tooth, and she lets you have it for a long time.

[1537] She never gets self -conscious.

[1538] I know I love it.

[1539] Yeah, it's one.

[1540] Oh, my God, you're going to like this.

[1541] I almost texted it to you from Nashville.

[1542] We were driving in the car and just rain.

[1543] Randomly, she said, mommy, I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, but I think Monica would be a good mom for me, too.

[1544] Oh, my God.

[1545] Also that she has the wherewithal to say to Kristen like, okay, I get that this might not go over well.

[1546] She also did write that in a letter to me recently.

[1547] Oh, she did?

[1548] Oh, that's recycled.

[1549] Well, she's just thinking about it a lot, I guess.

[1550] And Kristen, to her, you know, her cred, she was like, oh, my God, I love that.

[1551] the more people you would want to have your mom, the happier you are.

[1552] Your life is.

[1553] That's right.

[1554] This might be hereditary.

[1555] Why is that?

[1556] Your sister Carly wrote your biological father a note when we were in Disney World that time when I did the Luma launch and she said, I wish you were my real dad.

[1557] And he folded it up and put in his wallet and kept it there until he died.

[1558] Oh, that's so sweet.

[1559] It might be genetic.

[1560] It is sweet.

[1561] Yeah, lots of cross -guards.

[1562] Although, wait, how is it genetic?

[1563] So let me think this through.

[1564] We're all family.

[1565] Carly is part of me. Delta is part of me. And yes.

[1566] Okay.

[1567] I'm in.

[1568] It's all one.

[1569] I'm in.

[1570] That comes with bipolar and schizophrenia.

[1571] Yes.

[1572] If you recall when I met Chris and I said, if you're in the market for a deaf, dyslexic alcoholic, you look no further.

[1573] So how was your Easter, Mani?

[1574] My Easter was good.

[1575] I saw some photos.

[1576] Yeah.

[1577] There were some photos.

[1578] You were an incredible.

[1579] Outfit.

[1580] Really exciting.

[1581] Thank you.

[1582] So I bought some suspenders for the wedding we were in involved in a couple weeks ago.

[1583] Now this is kind of, this is an embarrassing story.

[1584] Seinfeld ask?

[1585] A little.

[1586] Okay.

[1587] It paints me in a horrible but realistic.

[1588] Okay.

[1589] Warts and all?

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] So there was a bowling night.

[1592] Then there was the wedding.

[1593] And I didn't have anything fun to wear to the bowling night.

[1594] And I had been wanting some suspenders.

[1595] I was like, That's so fun.

[1596] Oh, I should get that for bowling.

[1597] Right.

[1598] I should splurge.

[1599] I should get it for the bowling night.

[1600] So I bought them, and they're from Prada.

[1601] Oh, my gosh.

[1602] Wow.

[1603] Prouda suspenders.

[1604] Prada suspenders.

[1605] Prospenders.

[1606] Uh -huh.

[1607] See, yeah, at least a lot of fun wordplay.

[1608] Yeah.

[1609] Can I allow to ask how much suspenders are from Prada?

[1610] I don't think you should ask.

[1611] Okay, all right, all right.

[1612] That's between you and Prada.

[1613] Well, now I've worn them twice, so my cost per wear is getting better.

[1614] You're amortizing the cost.

[1615] So I bought them a week in advance, plenty of time.

[1616] I rushed shipped it, so I would have it in time.

[1617] Why not at that point, right?

[1618] You're already in for a penny and for a pound.

[1619] That's right.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] So then it tried to arrive three separate times, and it was signature required.

[1622] Oh, I was with you one time when they called.

[1623] Exactly.

[1624] I was here.

[1625] I was here doing armchair business.

[1626] As I recall, though, you talked the guy into leaving it.

[1627] No, no, I'm sorry.

[1628] That was for my headphones.

[1629] Oh.

[1630] Were those Prada as well?

[1631] I wish.

[1632] They were a regular apple.

[1633] Okay.

[1634] I have a lot of packages.

[1635] Sure.

[1636] It was the day before and I didn't get them.

[1637] And I was like, what the fuck am I going to do?

[1638] Tomorrow I was leaving for the wedding at 10 a .m. And it was going to be coming again to my house between like 11 and 1.

[1639] Too big of a window for you.

[1640] You're on a schedule.

[1641] Yeah, because I. I had a massage.

[1642] I had a massage at noon.

[1643] And I tried to move it to my credit.

[1644] In your defense.

[1645] There were no replacements, and there was definitely no replacements with the best massage therapist ever.

[1646] Ding, ding, ding.

[1647] We'll come back to that.

[1648] We'll circle back.

[1649] You'll mark that.

[1650] Uh -huh.

[1651] Okay.

[1652] So I was like, okay, what am I going to do?

[1653] So I had someone come to my house and wait for the past.

[1654] Oh, well, you hired someone to, okay.

[1655] You're deep into this now.

[1656] Because, did you get a mortgage?

[1657] Well, here's the problem.

[1658] How could I have spent that much money on suspenders and then not warn them?

[1659] Well, that would be the worst.

[1660] And in your mind, if you don't have a bowling party to go to, what occasion's going to call for these suspenders?

[1661] Exactly.

[1662] And the PPW, you're always conscious of that, price per wear.

[1663] Exactly.

[1664] So I hired someone.

[1665] Okay.

[1666] Come sit and receive the suspenders.

[1667] Were they allowed to be in your house?

[1668] Oh, I thought you hired a human to sit on your porch.

[1669] No. Oh, okay.

[1670] She watched TV, and she received my suspenders, and then she put them in an Uber.

[1671] Oh.

[1672] And they got driven out to me in Malibu.

[1673] And then the front desk sent them to my room.

[1674] Oh, my God.

[1675] Have you, you don't have to tell me. I don't want to tell me. You don't want you to tell me. I'm just curious of you for your own fun.

[1676] Have calculated it?

[1677] Of course.

[1678] Oh, you did?

[1679] With the Uber, with the hourly.

[1680] Okay.

[1681] Yeah.

[1682] Oh, my God.

[1683] Great.

[1684] Okay, great.

[1685] Yeah.

[1686] Did you have to use Quickbooks?

[1687] I should have.

[1688] It was a lot of math.

[1689] It would have taken you even a long time to add up.

[1690] Yeah.

[1691] It'd be easy to throw stones at you.

[1692] And people will.

[1693] And they will.

[1694] And they will.

[1695] But what I see, well, maybe a story of indulgence to some people, I see as a story of stituidness.

[1696] Thank you.

[1697] Yes.

[1698] Perseverance.

[1699] Fight.

[1700] Tenacity.

[1701] Tenacity.

[1702] Vip and vigor.

[1703] Thank you.

[1704] You were going to wear those motherfucking suspenders through hell or high water, whether it cost you the farm or not.

[1705] And fucking, eh.

[1706] Now, this could be a good or bad outcome.

[1707] Okay.

[1708] After all that, when you put them on to go bowling.

[1709] I fucking love them.

[1710] Oh, good.

[1711] I really did.

[1712] I was very pleased.

[1713] Up to that point, you'd only seen them on the internet.

[1714] Could have gone so many ways.

[1715] Can you imagine?

[1716] After all that.

[1717] Did you have a backup outfit?

[1718] I could have just worn it without the suspenders.

[1719] Okay.

[1720] Your slacks wouldn't have fallen down?

[1721] It was a skirt.

[1722] It was a really cute outfit.

[1723] Oh, okay.

[1724] We're all cool.

[1725] It was really cute.

[1726] It all worked out.

[1727] I wore them.

[1728] A lot of compliments, I assume.

[1729] A lot of compliments.

[1730] Again, price per compliment.

[1731] That's right.

[1732] This two gets hammeredized.

[1733] And then I got to wear them again on Easter.

[1734] Hit an Easter party?

[1735] Yeah, well, Charlie has a prod of bolo ties.

[1736] So I told him to wear that so we can match our accessories.

[1737] And that was a fun for everyone.

[1738] A designer bought me a Dolce in Gabon a suit 10 years ago to go with the Metball.

[1739] Oh.

[1740] Well, I wear that suit nonstop, you know.

[1741] And so I had gone from the wedding to George's house to Yorgo, Yorgo, Andrew Panay.

[1742] Yep.

[1743] And I was telling him that I wore this suit and that the button broke, as you know, seconds before I went out to officiate and I had to sew it in my room back together.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] And anyways, when I was telling him, he said, well, how did you look button?

[1746] I said, oh, I look really good.

[1747] It's Dolce and Gabana.

[1748] Both.

[1749] Yes.

[1750] So when I got home, I sent him a photo of the lining where it says Dolce and Gabana.

[1751] And I made the and all caps.

[1752] Some people just have Dolce.

[1753] I know.

[1754] Or some people just have Gabana.

[1755] And this thing is actually Dolce and Gabon.

[1756] That's really extravagant.

[1757] I know.

[1758] And the Gabana.

[1759] By the way, the more you say Gabana, the more preposterous it sounds is a designer's name.

[1760] It almost sounds like banana or something.

[1761] And it sounds like gazebo.

[1762] Generalized like Brooklyn 90s gangster movie talk.

[1763] Yeah.

[1764] Like this fucking Gabana.

[1765] He comes in here fucking swan at my mother.

[1766] He doesn't want to try my fucking Uncle Stu.

[1767] I said, you get the fuck out of it.

[1768] Were you a fucking Gabana?

[1769] Oh, my God.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] Can I just say I'm really proud that I raised a son that can sew his own button on right before in a crisis?

[1772] That was a feather in your cap.

[1773] It really was.

[1774] I know it's not all about me, but I just want to throw that out because I think there's a lot of men out there.

[1775] that don't know their way.

[1776] In fact, Barton, as you know, was a real fan of the dental floss instead of thread because he said it held up better.

[1777] That is a hack.

[1778] You know what else would be good while?

[1779] Okay, so he broke a paradigm.

[1780] He's a disruptor.

[1781] Now I'm going to improve on that.

[1782] Ideally, you would use like a 200 -pound test, like a fishing line.

[1783] Because then you could really gain the weight.

[1784] Yeah, especially if you have the gunt.

[1785] But would it be flexible enough?

[1786] Oh, sure.

[1787] Oh, well, you know, you can angle those.

[1788] I don't know much about.

[1789] Okay.

[1790] This is completely unrelated.

[1791] How fast do you think a sailfish can swim?

[1792] A sailfish?

[1793] Yeah, it's a fastest fish in the ocean.

[1794] We just learned this with one of those books again, who would win?

[1795] These are the greatest books, by the way.

[1796] A hundred miles per hour.

[1797] Okay, just to just put it in perspective, like a really fast, crazy expensive jet ski goes about 75.

[1798] Okay.

[1799] Okay, 60.

[1800] You were basically right, but it's on 90.

[1801] Wow.

[1802] Can you believe that?

[1803] So is Kim using what just happened because.

[1804] Yes, I wanted you to guess lower.

[1805] Yeah, yeah, okay.

[1806] Here's how I could, if I could redo this whole thing.

[1807] I would first say, do you know how fast jet skis go?

[1808] Right.

[1809] I would have said no. Right, okay.

[1810] That's real quick.

[1811] Let's do it again.

[1812] Okay, all right, here we go.

[1813] Well, shit, you grew up in Georgia.

[1814] Did you ever get out to Lake Lanier?

[1815] Oh, yeah.

[1816] Oh, yeah.

[1817] Did you ever see any jet skiers out there?

[1818] Sure, they're all over the place.

[1819] Yeah, well, they got these ones now, these really expensive ones that are like turboed and supercharged.

[1820] They go 75.

[1821] I thought you were going to ask me what?

[1822] Well, hold on.

[1823] Wow.

[1824] Isn't that crazy?

[1825] That's crazy.

[1826] 75.

[1827] That's fast.

[1828] Hey, speaking of which, how fast do you think a sailfish can swim?

[1829] A sailfish.

[1830] Yeah, a fish, a normal animal, not surpocharged or turboed.

[1831] A hundred miles per hour.

[1832] Oh, my God.

[1833] Didn't you just learn that a jet ski.

[1834] We go 75.

[1835] Okay, well, I was born away.

[1836] Do you think that sounds fast, Mom?

[1837] I think it sounds really fast.

[1838] And it makes me think of people I know that have caught one.

[1839] Oh.

[1840] Pip had one hanging out in the house.

[1841] Remember he had hanging on the wall?

[1842] Did he have a sailfish or Marlon?

[1843] He was a sailfish.

[1844] It was a sailfish.

[1845] Okay, they are indistinguishable to me. He caught a 90 mile per hour fish?

[1846] Yeah, on a jet ski.

[1847] Wow.

[1848] Uh -huh.

[1849] Well, that'd be the only way you could do it.

[1850] Well, I think what would happen?

[1851] I don't, I think when you catch it, you just throw some bait in there.

[1852] It's not doing 90 at that point.

[1853] Oh, it's just kind of, it stops for you.

[1854] Nosing around to see what's out there.

[1855] But if it fights you.

[1856] It may take off running 90, yeah, 90 mile an hour.

[1857] Yeah, that's a lot of thrust.

[1858] It's a lot of thrust.

[1859] That's why you need that three, 400 pound test line on there.

[1860] How much do they weigh the sailfish?

[1861] I would have, I'm going to have to Google.

[1862] I think my dad's was about six foot long.

[1863] Whoa.

[1864] Whoa.

[1865] When I'm 208, so.

[1866] An adult weighs 120 pounds.

[1867] Oh, my God.

[1868] This is not, okay, a sailfish is not a normal fish.

[1869] Oh, it's a big old boy.

[1870] That's a lean, mean swimming machine.

[1871] And it has the huge needle nose, right?

[1872] Like a swordfish or a marlin or a swordfish.

[1873] Back to, yeah, pretty much.

[1874] There's a double back on that.

[1875] South Florida one only weighs between 35 and 40.

[1876] Oh, so your dad's only way 35 to 40.

[1877] Rob's saying he's trying to take away.

[1878] I'm just trying to cover my bases.

[1879] People get mad.

[1880] Look at it.

[1881] Oh, yeah, it has a really big sale.

[1882] We had that hanging in our family room the whole time I was growing up.

[1883] I do remember that fish well.

[1884] Am I right in that you somehow got that when he passed?

[1885] No. Your dad and I went fishing off of Miami and I caught a bluefin dolphin.

[1886] Oh.

[1887] And I had it stuffed.

[1888] And what you're remembering is Greg took it off the fireplace and broke it half over his knee.

[1889] Yeah, there we go.

[1890] There it is.

[1891] But just to be clear, this is it.

[1892] This isn't a dolphin.

[1893] This isn't the mammal.

[1894] This is just a fish, the bluefin dolphin.

[1895] Yeah.

[1896] Which is not a, it's not flipper.

[1897] It's not flipper.

[1898] Just so no one thinks my mom caught a dolphin.

[1899] No, no, no, no. Should we introduce my mom to this world?

[1900] Oh, sure.

[1901] Because I sing your praises all the time.

[1902] You're so open -minded and you really can come from things from a very fair perspective.

[1903] We applaud you all the time about it.

[1904] Yeah, you can see all angus.

[1905] And I want your opinion on this.

[1906] So it's pretty well documented that many people, have had sexual encounters with dolphins.

[1907] Oh, Jesus.

[1908] Yeah.

[1909] Often, in some cases, it was scientists because this one female scientist was like, you just got to basically jerk them off just so you can study them because they're so rambunctious and that's all they wanted from, there's another case of a female dolphin that was so in love with the male, right?

[1910] Well, there's a very famous case where they gave a bunch of scientists, scientists, gave a bunch of dolphins LSD.

[1911] And then, like, made an aquarium in their house.

[1912] house basically, like filled their house with water.

[1913] Yeah, like five feet of water.

[1914] Gave them LSD, and then they all got really horny, like the dolphins did and wanted to have sex with the scientists.

[1915] But most importantly, when the scientists moved, that dolphin killed itself.

[1916] Do you remember this?

[1917] Yeah, they were in love.

[1918] Yeah.

[1919] Okay, so I'm going to fast forward.

[1920] I'm going to just bring it up to speed.

[1921] This is a thing.

[1922] This is why on the show we call it's hashtag dolphin asparagus, if you want to talk about any kind of feelings you've ever had for a dolphin male female female, you just hashtag take dolphin asparagus.

[1923] Okay, now I have a moral ruling on what is right and what is wrong in this case, and I want to know from your point of view, is there a version that's acceptable and one that's completely off limits?

[1924] Or is it all off limits?

[1925] What do we think?

[1926] You're on the hot seat.

[1927] Having sex with dolphins?

[1928] Yep.

[1929] Correct.

[1930] She had to just break it down.

[1931] Is that what you're asking?

[1932] Are you asking me?

[1933] Okay.

[1934] It was obviously consensual, but they were date raped because they did have a date drug.

[1935] True.

[1936] I don't know that acid is what one would use for to date rape, but yes, they were on drugs.

[1937] I don't have any experience of date raping dolphins.

[1938] Right, yet, yet.

[1939] I'm going to make this a little finer of a question.

[1940] I don't think men should ever have sex with female animals, period, and discussion.

[1941] Okay.

[1942] If a female wants to have sex with a dolphin, I don't feel bad for male dolphins.

[1943] There's so many videos of them trying to hump every swimmer they're around.

[1944] They're very horny.

[1945] They don't give a shit.

[1946] Clearly they're not victimized by the whole thing.

[1947] And if a woman with full agency that's an adult decides she wants to be in love and have sex with a dolphin, I guess I don't really care.

[1948] I guess I don't care either, but I would take it one step further.

[1949] And I would say if a female dolphin wanted to have sex with a man, if it's consensual, I'm okay with it.

[1950] What you do in your pool is your business.

[1951] Right, okay, but here's the problem, though.

[1952] And I would agree with you.

[1953] If female dolphins could write a letter and say, I'm in love with Mike and I want to totally have his babies, fine.

[1954] But in the absence of that, with the male dolphin, we see an erection, we see him pursuing and humping, pumping, pumping, pumping.

[1955] Like, he's saying, I want this.

[1956] But, okay, that's a specific male dolphin.

[1957] You can't just say all the male dolphins want to do that.

[1958] Here's the point.

[1959] A male dolphin couldn't be raped by a female.

[1960] And I think they could because what if that specific male dolphin didn't want to have sex?

[1961] He wouldn't be pumping and be erect, right?

[1962] No, sometimes erections have nothing to do.

[1963] Well, that's true.

[1964] They're involuntary sometimes.

[1965] It's the same for females.

[1966] That's the whole, like, rape thing.

[1967] Yes, they try to say because the woman was lubricating.

[1968] And then, no, you can be terrified and get over, yes.

[1969] So that's, we throw that out for sure.

[1970] Yeah.

[1971] But again, I'm talking about there's a female human sitting on a dock.

[1972] We just watched the video.

[1973] Mom, there's a video that just was around last week.

[1974] A female human sitting on the dock and the male dophin comes out of the water.

[1975] I mean, again, how much more consent do you want?

[1976] He leaves his habitat to get on top of her and start pumping.

[1977] Now, you'll be relieved to know there was no penetration or anything.

[1978] Thank you.

[1979] Yeah.

[1980] She backed up.

[1981] She didn't like it.

[1982] So it wasn't good.

[1983] When we compare male dolphins anatomy with the homo sapien.

[1984] Uh -huh, anatomy, the male human penis?

[1985] Are they similar?

[1986] The dolphin's penis, first of all, seems to go up in banana -shaped kind of, because to compensate for how awkward their bodies are for the mating, right?

[1987] But it's quite big.

[1988] Okay.

[1989] This is a picture of it.

[1990] Holy cats.

[1991] I hate this picture.

[1992] Yeah, it's a very disturbing penis.

[1993] That's scary.

[1994] It looks like a tail.

[1995] Sharks have more than one.

[1996] They do?

[1997] Yes, Sadie and I took my granddaughter to sleep underneath sharks at the Oregon Coast Aquarium.

[1998] And we spent the night and they would keep going over us.

[1999] And Sadie told me, Grandma, watch, they have more than one penis.

[2000] Oh, my gosh.

[2001] So a dolphin's penis is about the size of a human hand.

[2002] Oh, well, a man's penis is about the size of a human hand.

[2003] And it looks like a terrifying slab of raw meat.

[2004] To me, I guess what I'm saying is just, it's very obvious that the male dolphin wants to do it.

[2005] I would be a little more nervous about trying to determine whether the female dolphin wanted the guy.

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] I just don't think we can place, like, human behavior on top of dolphins.

[2008] Although they are really, really intelligent.

[2009] I know they are, yeah.

[2010] Yeah.

[2011] But to me, anything is okay if it's consensual.

[2012] Well, hold on, no, because I think you'd walk that back if we think about that a lot of people don't have agency to consent.

[2013] Young people, you know, mentally handicapped people.

[2014] animals animals you know we can't say dolphins yeah yeah we can't say a sheep you know consents okay moving on all right we covered that again covered that okay so my easter was great I wore my suspenders I got another wear out of them and we had a great time great how was yours ours was fantastic because it was very outside of our routine because we were in the south visiting Hayes and Houston and And they're two little children.

[2015] And we went to Hayes' parents' house.

[2016] And they hosted this incredible Easter.

[2017] So there was an Easter egg hunt in the front yard for all the children's.

[2018] There was about 10 of them there.

[2019] And then, good on you, Doug.

[2020] There was an Easter egg hunt for the adults in the backyard.

[2021] Uh -huh.

[2022] Money, gift bags.

[2023] That's what Eric does a lot.

[2024] There's adult prizes?

[2025] At their normal.

[2026] There's like iPhones and stuff.

[2027] Oh, my God.

[2028] Not this year.

[2029] This year was minimal.

[2030] Because I went shopping for the stuff this year, so there was no iPhones.

[2031] Okay.

[2032] I mean out like a bandit.

[2033] Doug is a very hardworking man, a successful man, and I thought, this guy values hard work.

[2034] He's going to reward hard work.

[2035] So everyone kind of branched out from the deck.

[2036] I went directly to the very back of the yard and worked my way towards the deck because I thought he's going to think, strategy.

[2037] Whoever goes deepest in these woods deserves the most money.

[2038] And guess what?

[2039] That was not only right, it yielded results.

[2040] But then I said to him my theory, and he said, you're right.

[2041] That's exactly what I did.

[2042] So I walked away with $86 in cash money and a $50 gift certificate to a popcorn website that has the most delicious popcorn in the world.

[2043] Cool.

[2044] And then you're going to guess this.

[2045] I know you're going to guess it because I guess it from the fucking second we walked in the backyard.

[2046] There was a golden egg hidden.

[2047] And Kristen got it.

[2048] Oh, wow.

[2049] What would you guess?

[2050] There was probably 12 adults.

[2051] We walk in, we learn there's a golden egg.

[2052] I know not to even look for it.

[2053] And I say to myself, Kristen's going to fucking find this thing.

[2054] Yeah, it's her karma.

[2055] She's going to trip over it was my real thought, but I didn't even say any of this.

[2056] And she fucking tripped over the golden egg.

[2057] Where was it hiding?

[2058] Under some brush.

[2059] She was looking at something else.

[2060] Would she get?

[2061] A $200 visa gift card.

[2062] Wow.

[2063] She needs it.

[2064] So I'm glad.

[2065] She does.

[2066] Yes.

[2067] Yes.

[2068] So you put my $86.

[2069] The 50 in popcorn, that's 136.

[2070] Her 200, that's 336.

[2071] And then I think she got about 50 bucks.

[2072] We walked out with about 586.

[2073] That's fun.

[2074] In winnings.

[2075] It was incredible.

[2076] That's not the important part.

[2077] That was just really fun and novel.

[2078] Yeah.

[2079] I haven't been, I haven't gathered eggs since I was a child.

[2080] Yeah.

[2081] Go inside proper Southern Easter breakfast.

[2082] Everyone's already gone to Mass. We skipped that part.

[2083] But the blessing got to be a part of the blessing.

[2084] He used to made fun of us.

[2085] God pray for the liberals.

[2086] funny.

[2087] So Rhonda, Hayes' mother, made the most incredible spread, candied ham, Hawaiian rolls, the green bean, southern style.

[2088] Casserol?

[2089] No, big, big bowl of the, and then we had Ma Jane there, grandma was there, brothers and sisters.

[2090] It was proper, and it was so fun, and I loved being a part of such a traditional experience.

[2091] Made me kind of miss that.

[2092] Did you guys grow up doing Easter?

[2093] Yeah.

[2094] We always colored eggs a couple of days before.

[2095] But do we do a big meal with family?

[2096] We didn't do that, right?

[2097] We didn't leave Highland on Easter.

[2098] No, I don't think we did.

[2099] Our family shit was Thanksgiving.

[2100] Yes, we did eggs and stuff for sure.

[2101] And Mother made a beautiful basket every year with lots of...

[2102] That's nice.

[2103] Yeah, I didn't buy store -bought baskets.

[2104] I don't like them.

[2105] You wove your own basket?

[2106] No, no, no. I buy individual pieces and get an empty basket and then you fill it.

[2107] And that way you can personal it a little bit.

[2108] And you got basically a toy generally in it, so I would get like a hot wheel car in my Easter basket as a little add -on.

[2109] I never had that just like stocking.

[2110] My parents don't like that effort.

[2111] Yeah.

[2112] But when I became a grandma, then I went crazy with, we had the big dinner and we had the Easter egg hunt in the backyard.

[2113] We lived in Bloomfield Hills then, and the first time I did it, I bought cabbage patch dolls for each of the girls and my niece, Caitlin.

[2114] And they had this great hunt.

[2115] Everybody got a doll.

[2116] And they left and I looked at my husband and I said, I think it was a successful day.

[2117] Two minutes later, David called me screaming into the phone.

[2118] Don't you ever buy my kids a doll again unless you buy them exactly the same?

[2119] They're fighting in the car.

[2120] Oh, my God.

[2121] Oh, my God.

[2122] Okay, that's amazing because that's a ding, ding, ding for a fact.

[2123] Okay, great.

[2124] Let's get into some facts.

[2125] Okay.

[2126] We talked about cabbage patch dolls for a second in this episode.

[2127] because he was a part of like the CETO rats.

[2128] And they would hang out in this big mansion, it sounded like.

[2129] And then there were cabbage patch dolls stuck in the ceiling with like knives in them and it's crazy.

[2130] That is a ding, ding, ding.

[2131] But it reminded me because the cabbage patch factories in Georgia, it's in Cleveland, Georgia, and I went to it.

[2132] You went to the hospital.

[2133] There's a hospital there and you can watch them get born.

[2134] And it's very excited.

[2135] Yeah, people would make pilgrimages there, as I recall.

[2136] Exactly.

[2137] He said 86.

[2138] at a bar, that obviously means...

[2139] Refunded all your money.

[2140] No, you just can't come to...

[2141] What if it was a positive?

[2142] I thought 86 was like sinking.

[2143] Well, at a bar, it means you can't come back.

[2144] But really what it means is you're out of something.

[2145] Like at restaurants, if you say we're 86th on that, it's like we're 86th of the cheeseburger.

[2146] You don't have any more cheeseburgers.

[2147] But it also means you can't come back.

[2148] I pulled up bar lingo, but we don't have time for it.

[2149] that um he had us with one of your favorite bar lingoes maybe this could be a test too what is a wet martini mm okay i think it means that it has more of remouth in it good job that's exactly right more of remoot than normal good job and you know there's two kinds of vermouth one is dry and one is sweet the sweet is for manhantan's and the dry is for martini's Were you a bartender?

[2150] When I was going to college, I worked for Hilton to pay my tuition.

[2151] But you were a cocktail waitress, correct?

[2152] Yes.

[2153] Not diminishing it, just adding some detail to it.

[2154] You weren't back there.

[2155] I wasn't porn.

[2156] No. Flipping bottles in the air and shit.

[2157] Tom Cruise comes up also as a ding, dang, but not in the facts, but in the episode.

[2158] Post -haste, do you set it, and then you got self -conscious that you didn't know what you were saying, but you were right.

[2159] You were saying it correctly with great speed or immediacy.

[2160] I love saying post -haste.

[2161] Yeah.

[2162] Okay, the Hells Angels and Saturday Night Live.

[2163] I was just going to read a little bit about that.

[2164] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2165] That's great.

[2166] When a comedy skit on Saturday Night Live used the, quote, colors of the Hells Angels, members of that gang angrily decided to visit the Saturday Night Live Studios.

[2167] The only warning anybody on the 17th floor had that the Hells Angels were coming was a frantic phone call from the security desk downstairs.

[2168] The Angels just stormed through, the guards said.

[2169] They were angry and they were looking for Saturday night.

[2170] With post -haste.

[2171] Ding, ding.

[2172] It was a sleepy morning a few days after the Emmy ceremonies and the offices were almost deserted.

[2173] Some comedy writers, secretary, and a production assistant or two were the only ones there.

[2174] None of them had time to react before two angels came striding through the door and stood looming over Kathy Minkowski's desk.

[2175] That's a writer.

[2176] Security was correct.

[2177] They were obviously unhappy.

[2178] The angel who did the talking was named Big Vinny.

[2179] Oh, I know Big Vinny.

[2180] You do?

[2181] Yeah, when in doubt, knock them out.

[2182] Sargent Arms of the Manhattan chapter, I think.

[2183] Oh, my God.

[2184] Vinnie stood several inches over six feet and weighed at least 300 pounds.

[2185] He wore black jeans, boots, a gold earring, a fur hat, and a snake -skin vest.

[2186] That's a lot of style, man. His huge chest and arms were covered with a swastika and skull tattoos.

[2187] Okay, let's try to...

[2188] Well, it's not our fault.

[2189] Big Vinny has a swastika.

[2190] No, I know.

[2191] It's just such a fun story until we heard there was a swastika -in -called.

[2192] It's also on -brand.

[2193] I think Sinks and Prada suspenders who really completed the soap.

[2194] Could have softened that terrible hate symbol, yeah.

[2195] Neil Levy could smell him from several feet away.

[2196] Anecotal.

[2197] Well, the whole thing is anecdotal.

[2198] I'm teasing, I'm teasing.

[2199] Okay.

[2200] The only details people remember as the other angel was that he was nearly as big as Vinny and that he carried a large hunting knife in his belt.

[2201] Vinny was yelling that he wanted to see whoever was in charge of the operation, that the show had used the angels colors and the angels didn't like it.

[2202] they were going to get their fucking colors back or somebody was going to get fucking hurt.

[2203] Uh -huh.

[2204] Kathy Minkowski cowered, her knees literally knocking together beneath her desk.

[2205] She finally figured out what Vinnie was ranting about.

[2206] There had been a sketch on the show the previous Saturday in which a gang of hell's angels rampaged through a suburban house singing Johnny Angel.

[2207] They'd been wearing the angels winged skull insignia their colors on their backs.

[2208] The angels Kathy Gathered considered this bad for their image and they consider the unauthorized use of their colors, a violation of some secret angels code.

[2209] Okay, so this is a big, big thing with the angels.

[2210] A couple of things about their colors.

[2211] You absolutely cannot wear that.

[2212] What are the colors?

[2213] The colors are their wings where it says Hell's Angels and they've got wings that are now trademarked.

[2214] And you can buy Hell's Angels merch, but it's called like Big Red, whatever.

[2215] And you won't get the actual, the exact wings.

[2216] Because when you earn your patch with the Angels, you've been a probie for a year and a half.

[2217] everyone in the club voted has to be unanimous to allow you into the club so if you have those on your back you're a hell's angel so no one's allowed to have it on the back this is punishable by god knows what oh secondly if you want to fight a hell's angel uh you have to ask that hell's angels member to take the jacket off because if you touch those you're picking a fight with the entire club but if you can get them to to take their jacket off you have the shot of having a one -on -one fight with them now what happened in response said this, which is even crazy, is I think Belushi hung out with the Outlaws, which is the Hells Angels major rival group.

[2218] Equal in size, brutality, criminality.

[2219] So then Outlaws started joining Belushi when you'd go up and down the elevator and go to work.

[2220] Isn't that wild?

[2221] And the Hell's Angels didn't like that?

[2222] Well, they hate the Outlaws.

[2223] Yeah, they're kind of Tom and Jerry.

[2224] How did you learn all that?

[2225] I've read three books about the Hells Angels.

[2226] Oh, wow.

[2227] But you know, you've heard me say when and don't knock them out.

[2228] I got that from Big Vinny to Sergeant Arms again.

[2229] Are you going to get in trouble?

[2230] Well, what I'm bummed about is that he has swastika tattoo.

[2231] Yeah.

[2232] I'm like quoting a guy who's got a fucking swastika tattoo.

[2233] Now you know.

[2234] Now you know.

[2235] Okay.

[2236] So that is that.

[2237] I will say he talks about a book that seemed really interesting.

[2238] He said it was called The Many Faces of Zach.

[2239] Yes.

[2240] I can't find this book.

[2241] There's no such book.

[2242] There obviously is.

[2243] He probably is just saying it a little wrong.

[2244] Or maybe I just misheard it.

[2245] Is there a thousand faces of Zach?

[2246] I Googled it when he said it and couldn't find it.

[2247] Oh, wow.

[2248] Okay, so it went through a few different filters and still.

[2249] Thousand faces of dunja.

[2250] Oh, that's what he meant.

[2251] Doesn't seem like it.

[2252] That's a Chinese fantasy film.

[2253] Oh.

[2254] Okay, that's all for facts, but we should talk about our new endeavor.

[2255] Yes, Armchair Anonymous.

[2256] We did armchair stories where we talked about massage there.

[2257] It was a big hit.

[2258] It was super fun for us.

[2259] I think people really enjoyed it.

[2260] Yeah.

[2261] And even, I got to be honest, even if they hadn't, I want to keep going because I love talking.

[2262] Exactly.

[2263] It was so much fun talking to armchairs.

[2264] So we're going to make this a regular thing.

[2265] Yep.

[2266] We're going to call it Armchair Anonymous.

[2267] We're going to drop them Fridays.

[2268] Yes.

[2269] But the way that we're going to get all of these stories out there and get it really up and running, instead of announcing the topic every single Monday or Thursday, We are encouraging everyone to go to the website, armchairexpertpod .com.

[2270] There you will see Armchair Anonymous, and there's going to be some headings, cues.

[2271] For prompts, you can click and tell your story, and those four questions will be each week's fun conversation.

[2272] And we might dance around between topics.

[2273] We might mash up, like, the most embarrassing shit your pants story, a weird date experience, a otherworldly sexual encounter.

[2274] I'm going to all the simplest places, but there'll be deeper ones, and you'll think of great ones as well.

[2275] Mine are always going to be about dolphins.

[2276] Have you ever hooked up with a dolphin?

[2277] Sure.

[2278] If so, are you sure he wanted it?

[2279] We have some fun ones up right now.

[2280] Oh, tell me. What's up right now?

[2281] Okay.

[2282] Our first four...

[2283] How fast is a jet ski go?

[2284] That better be one of them.

[2285] How best you make a sailfish flies?

[2286] Quailed.

[2287] It's just trivia questions.

[2288] We have a new thing called the armchip trivia.

[2289] Oh my God.

[2290] That could be fun.

[2291] What do you think's faster?

[2292] A jet ski?

[2293] or a sailfish and you can't use the internet other than when you're on the website and then you've got to promptly shut it okay okay the first four that will be up that you can choose from are tell us about if you're in love with someone you aren't supposed to be in love with oh yes yes okay number two what's the craziest thing that's happened to you while on an airplane oh wonderful that's from charlie curtis the next these three are charlie's oh oh because he yes he loved this he loved it and he texted me and he was right.

[2294] And I want to give his description of this.

[2295] He said, this is the greatest show of all time because it's basically what I want to do when I meet people, which is like, forget everything you're about to tell me. Tell me the most interesting thing that's ever happened to you.

[2296] And I was like, you're right.

[2297] Yes.

[2298] And he was coming up on the fly with all these great ideas.

[2299] We might have to put him on retainer.

[2300] Number three, have you ever been scammed?

[2301] Tell us about it.

[2302] Oh, yes.

[2303] And lastly, have you accidentally found yourself in a swinger situation?

[2304] Oh, Oh, these are great.

[2305] Yeah.

[2306] Great, great, great.

[2307] So those are our four for next month.

[2308] So get on the website and please chime in.

[2309] The first one, do you love someone you're not allowed to?

[2310] Yeah.

[2311] Obviously in that situation, anonymity would be paramount.

[2312] So when we get into some of these, because some of these are going to be secrets.

[2313] Because we've also had, for a long time, had this idea of just doing like people's secrets or something very comforting about getting it out and then hearing that like, yeah, we've thought of that too or we've done that too.

[2314] It's not that big a deal and no one's going to throw up when they hear this about you.

[2315] It feels cathartic.

[2316] So you can always do these and be anonymous.

[2317] If your fear is that, oh, that would be way too revealing, know that we can do it in a manner that we call you sassafras.

[2318] Yeah, I mean, I think the go -to is, I think the go -to is they will be anonymous unless you want yourself known.

[2319] Oh, okay.

[2320] Yeah, so this is going to be a fun adventure.

[2321] I really am excited about it.

[2322] I hope we do them nonstop because they're so, so fun.

[2323] And I'm glad people liked them I'm glad people checked them out.

[2324] And thank you so much.

[2325] Armchairexpertpod .com.

[2326] Armchairexpertpod .com.

[2327] Go to the website.

[2328] Laura, do you want to say anything before we go?

[2329] Yeah.

[2330] You want anything to get off your chest?

[2331] Any grievances?

[2332] Do you want to answer any of those four questions?

[2333] What's the craziest thing that happened to you on an airplane really quick?

[2334] I know there's so many.

[2335] Nope.

[2336] Oh, I had a crash landing in Bahamas.

[2337] There we go.

[2338] I went out of the emergency shoots.

[2339] I landed in Hurricane David last plane to land.

[2340] And it was incredible.

[2341] And ever since then, I've never been afraid to fly because they are so well rehearsed.

[2342] They had their whole plane unloaded in like a microwave minute.

[2343] Wow.

[2344] Microwave minute.

[2345] I love it.

[2346] I like that.

[2347] Yeah, on one of your sexy alone trips, right?

[2348] My first alone trip.

[2349] Your first alone trip.

[2350] Oh, my God.

[2351] Were you like, of course.

[2352] 28 years old, my first time.

[2353] Oh, you were only 28?

[2354] You already had all those kids.

[2355] Two.

[2356] Two.

[2357] Oh, mom.

[2358] And you met a lover on that trip, right?

[2359] That's Dersel Dave.

[2360] Duracel Dave.

[2361] Dura Sal Dave.

[2362] This is the greatest you guys.

[2363] So despite the bad beginning, which is a crash landing, she meets DeraCell Dave.

[2364] They have a rendezvous, which I imagine was very exciting.

[2365] We had fun.

[2366] They had fun.

[2367] And then he would send us all the time boxes of DuraCell batteries.

[2368] And little DuraCell toys.

[2369] Oh, my God.

[2370] And Chanel, number five for me. Oh, my God.

[2371] It sounds like he was in love with you, but couldn't be.

[2372] Ding, ding, ding.

[2373] I love you so much.

[2374] I love you so much.

[2375] You're my number one.

[2376] We love you.

[2377] Thanks for joining us.

[2378] Yeah, thanks for having me. You know, I don't have to tell you, but you know, still weekly on post, people go, oh, my God, that was my favorite episode other than your mom, other than your mom.

[2379] It still remains, probably top three of all times.

[2380] Well, thank you.

[2381] That's very nice.

[2382] So I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear you back.

[2383] I love you.

[2384] Love you, Dexter.

[2385] armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2386] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2387] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.