Synced: We’re Back

[0] Oh, my God.

[1] Back in the attic again.

[2] It feels like we never left.

[3] I mean, you never left.

[4] Except there have been some changes.

[5] There's been some changes.

[6] The kettle being first and foremost.

[7] And the couch, I mean, the chair.

[8] Yeah, the couch is accurate.

[9] We could both fit in it.

[10] Comfortably fit.

[11] Yeah.

[12] It's too big for even Dax.

[13] It's huge.

[14] It was a mistake.

[15] How much time did he put into it?

[16] Okay, this is what happened.

[17] This was the chair, you know.

[18] Now I sit in that chair.

[19] But it was causing him to sweat a lot, and he was embarrassed to take the pictures after with the gist.

[20] I remember, oh, my God, like when he farted on you.

[21] Because he was so sweaty, maybe.

[22] Oh, shit.

[23] Sweety and gassy.

[24] That's the name of his memoir.

[25] Sweety and gassy.

[26] But he was so sweaty.

[27] And so we would get really anxious.

[28] And so he ordered this one.

[29] He thought the print was fun.

[30] It's not my styles.

[31] We've had some fights.

[32] Over it.

[33] Okay.

[34] Have you grown and repaired?

[35] Yeah, I mean, I just decided, whatever.

[36] Look at this place.

[37] It's a mess.

[38] I actually, so I love the print.

[39] I think it's a very feminine print.

[40] Not in a cool way.

[41] Like, if you told a random person off the street, draw a women's chair.

[42] They draw this.

[43] But that's patriarchy.

[44] Okay.

[45] This chair was written by patriarchy.

[46] It feels like the stock image of a feminine chair.

[47] Yes, exactly.

[48] Right.

[49] Well, it is.

[50] It's lazy boy.

[51] Yeah.

[52] It's lazy boy.

[53] And does that mean that I'm written by a man because I like it?

[54] I have the taste that men think I will.

[55] I mean, I guess technically we're all written by a man because we're living in my dad's Sim.

[56] That's true.

[57] He is a man. Yeah.

[58] Wow.

[59] That explains a lot.

[60] It makes me a lot less angry.

[61] Oh, good.

[62] If it's your dad.

[63] Yeah.

[64] I'm fine being written by a man. Okay.

[65] That's really nice.

[66] Yeah.

[67] He's not mature.

[68] Gizmo.

[69] I think that's actually masculine.

[70] I think the warped version we have in our society is not masculinity.

[71] He's secure, right?

[72] He's not like compensating or overcorrecting.

[73] Yeah.

[74] And I always attributed that to like an awareness.

[75] But I think you're right.

[76] I think he's just confident and like kind of just does not care.

[77] I've never seen him be insecure.

[78] Except sometimes when he's ordering food because he has an accent.

[79] And then I'm also super.

[80] super insecure during those moments.

[81] Like I get very anxious when he's ordering food and he doesn't know how to pronounce anything.

[82] Did you feel like that as a kid?

[83] Was it worse?

[84] So much.

[85] It's pretty much gone now.

[86] So it's funny when little things like when we're at a restaurant and I still feel a little tinge of it.

[87] I'm like, that's still there.

[88] What the fuck?

[89] Yeah.

[90] Like so crazy.

[91] I grew up in Montreal.

[92] My grandmother came from Hungary and she spoke English kind of, but no French.

[93] And I remember she needed a stamp or something.

[94] something.

[95] And so we were like in this tiny little mall together.

[96] And she kept asking, I'm going to like say it's such a silly story.

[97] But it speaks to how emotional it can feel when you see like a parent or a caregiver or grandparent struggling with the language.

[98] She was just trying to ask where the post office was.

[99] And no one was responding to her because she wasn't saying it in French.

[100] And I remember she was like, what is it in French?

[101] And I couldn't remember.

[102] Like I was too young.

[103] And I just felt very like powerless and helpless.

[104] I mean, we would call it secondhand embarrassment as a joke now.

[105] But feeling the shame.

[106] that they're feeling.

[107] And you can't fix it for them.

[108] Of course, we're four minutes in, and you have already said that you're going to cry.

[109] You always make me cry.

[110] It's so on brand.

[111] We talk about our dads.

[112] We already...

[113] This is small talk.

[114] Right where we left off.

[115] So we're here.

[116] We're back.

[117] We decided...

[118] I mean, really, I'll pull back the curtain.

[119] Dax said, hey, I think you guys should do an ongoing show because Race of 35 got such a great response.

[120] We're so grateful to everyone who listened to that.

[121] And we've had such sweet commentary around it.

[122] And multiple people have said they're egg freezing now with friends.

[123] I just, I love it.

[124] It's so amazing.

[125] But anyway, he said, I think you guys should do an ongoing show.

[126] And so we listened to him.

[127] And we're going to do a weekly show in which we do this, talk, Liz will cry.

[128] That'll be sort of the first half.

[129] And then we'll also be answering questions from listeners kind of, I mean, I actually can't say the word advice.

[130] Like that makes me cringe.

[131] It's not advice.

[132] It's just that you guys will write in and tell us something that you're struggling with or dealing with.

[133] And we will read it on here and we'll discuss it.

[134] And we'll just give our two cents and try to help, you know, take some village.

[135] It does.

[136] And villages are.

[137] are hard to come about.

[138] I kept thinking about how these third places we're always talking about, right?

[139] Like, you have a first place that's home.

[140] You have a second place that's work.

[141] And then that third place is it the gym, a community center for many people.

[142] It's religious, you know, establishment or church or whatever.

[143] Or like, I was going to say that, what's that workout?

[144] Libraries.

[145] Some people find communities in libraries, okay?

[146] Like, what's the workout place?

[147] You're like, the library.

[148] The library, yes.

[149] The gym?

[150] Well, CrossFit gyms.

[151] I feel like it feels almost like, right, you're part of something.

[152] But there's a dearth of those places.

[153] And I think so often we feel lost or stuck and we just go to like, it must be me. I must be doing something wrong.

[154] And I think so much of it is just a lack of community for so many people.

[155] And that's what Race of 35 felt for me. And I think so many people who shared, they're not even doing egg freezing.

[156] There were men who came up to us, right?

[157] And, you know, clearly not freezing their eggs either, but felt this.

[158] sense of community.

[159] And I think to me it's not about advice.

[160] It's just about community.

[161] Like, tell us what you're going through.

[162] And sometimes just like being able to feel heard in that moment and not alone.

[163] It doesn't really matter what the person says.

[164] It definitely doesn't matter because it's sort of the blind leading the blind a little bit.

[165] You know, we don't have any degrees in psychology.

[166] It's unqualified.

[167] It's unqualified.

[168] But it is our two cents.

[169] We both are in therapy.

[170] What if I sort of reading these questions to my therapist?

[171] like pretending they were my issues, just so I could get really good advice.

[172] Wait, that's a good, okay.

[173] I got to save therapy for me. Speaking of, we should do a little update on how we're feeling post.

[174] I mean, it's been eight months.

[175] No way.

[176] I mean, it was August.

[177] Wait, that's wild.

[178] Yeah, since we finished our egg freezing.

[179] And I wonder for you how your thoughts have progressed.

[180] If you've even thought about it since we've done it, what do you think about it?

[181] When it comes up in conversation, I've become now the evangelist.

[182] Like if I overhear anybody being on the fence about it, and especially if they're at a company or somewhere that it's paid, I'm like, I don't leave them alone at the party.

[183] I'm like, because I just think to do it.

[184] That sounds of rapey.

[185] I know.

[186] It's very non -consensual and I need to chill.

[187] I do that because I just feel like I wish someone had done that for me. Not that I was at a company that would have paid for it, but I just wish I'd done it earlier, right?

[188] So when I hear a woman say like, oh, I'm like whatever age, but like maybe I'll just wait a few years.

[189] I'm like, if you know you're going to do it, do it now.

[190] And I still tell people, I'm like, yes, it's painful.

[191] I was just talking my friend Rupy about it, actually.

[192] She was like, does it hurt?

[193] And I was like, yes.

[194] 10 for Liz.

[195] And 2 for me. Like, I can't do my own shots.

[196] And I told her like, I will help you.

[197] I'll do it with you, all the stuff.

[198] I've never had a baby.

[199] But it's similar to the way that I feel a lot of women will describe childbirth, which is it's super painful, but it's so worth it.

[200] It almost for me still feels like it was a spiritual experience to do it with you.

[201] and I still have my little Liz walking around with me, and that is very powerful.

[202] Sometimes I'll still think, like, you know, months go by, and I'm still single.

[203] Sometimes I'll go back and forth on, like, should I do another round?

[204] And I know that you're doing another one.

[205] And I'm like, do I just do it again with her?

[206] But what about you?

[207] How have you evolved?

[208] Yeah.

[209] So it's been a ride.

[210] So one of my very, very, very good friends is currently freezing.

[211] She is retrieving tomorrow.

[212] Oh, wow.

[213] Which is so exciting.

[214] So, wow.

[215] You know, when she was leading up to it, I was so excited for her.

[216] And on her first day of shots, I went over there.

[217] And two of our other friends came and, you know, we then tised it as we do.

[218] You know, I walk in.

[219] I'm like, I'm the expert.

[220] I know what I'm doing.

[221] I just did this.

[222] I can be of service here.

[223] And I'm like, you know, laying out all the things and all the side.

[224] I just knock it all over on accident.

[225] But like all this glass, you know, it didn't shatter.

[226] But I immediately I immediately basically like threw all this stuff all over the floor and everyone was like oh it's okay but I I could tell immediately all the confidence they had in me was gone and in myself I was like oh wow it's like when you're on stage and you have a performance and you like blank and you don't because she'd ask a question and be like fuck I don't remember and I can't remember and I can't remember remember so much.

[227] It's crazy.

[228] I couldn't find our videos, our nail lady videos.

[229] So I was kind of panicking.

[230] And of course, what's so fascinating as we learned during the process, hers is different.

[231] She had to take a pill before.

[232] Oh, I took a pill, but it was to be adjusted to your cycle.

[233] No, no, like literally before the shot.

[234] And then also she wasn't using cue caps.

[235] She was using that big ass needle.

[236] Remember that?

[237] The trigger shot needle?

[238] Remember the big needle that we took off immediately and put on another, she was using that big one to retrieve the medicine and put it in the saline.

[239] Like that's, I guess, technically what that's for, but the cue cap makes it much easier.

[240] Whatever.

[241] So it was just really fascinating because I was like, oh yeah, it's not regular.

[242] It just put me back in that headspace.

[243] And my reaction to all this was surprising to me in ding, ding, ding, ding therapy.

[244] I talked about it yesterday in therapy because I said, so my friends do is, I got her a tray.

[245] I picked out a really good one for her.

[246] It's very her.

[247] With the cheese.

[248] No, that wouldn't be good for her.

[249] There's one with cheeses.

[250] She's like a bright blue girl.

[251] So I got her a bright blue.

[252] Anyway, she's been keeping us updated as she should, as we asked for.

[253] Right.

[254] And for some reason when I've been getting these updates, I have this like little pang that happens every time.

[255] And, It was very surprising to me. I was not expecting to feel anything other than just pure empowerment, sisterhood feelings.

[256] I want her to get four million eggs.

[257] Like I'm sending so many positive vibes her way.

[258] Everything's going great for her and I'm so thrilled.

[259] But it's just like when I see something about like the size, it's not even like mine aren't like that.

[260] It's not that.

[261] That's why I was having such a hard time processing what was going on.

[262] And I had to talk to my therapist and I was like, I really don't understand.

[263] It's not that I'm feeling jealous and it's not that I'm feeling annoyed that I'm being like asked things.

[264] It's this other feeling that I don't even know what to name it.

[265] And we essentially got to, I think I had convinced myself that I had processed all of those feelings because we did it here, we did it together, we did this podcast on it.

[266] Esther Perel fixes everything.

[267] You know, we talked it out.

[268] It's like, great, that's done now.

[269] And it's obviously not.

[270] Obviously, it's not.

[271] I still have all these lingering feelings around it that I've really compartmentalized.

[272] I've slammed the door shut on it.

[273] And I think, okay, I guess I'll just be honest.

[274] Me and you went to South by separately.

[275] And you did a panel on fertility.

[276] Right.

[277] And you told me you were doing that.

[278] And I had that exact same feeling.

[279] I didn't know where to place it.

[280] But I think what it is is every time someone is forcing me to open that door that I've slammed shut or like it cracks the door open where I'm like, I'm not ready to enter that.

[281] So I think that's what it is.

[282] It's just like I've really placed it far away.

[283] And of course it's all about control, right?

[284] I thought I had control over that, this uncontrollable thing.

[285] I made it as controllable as possible.

[286] And then I just get reminders like, oh, yeah, you don't have control.

[287] So it's good because my therapist and I are going to like, we're like revisiting those feelings and what's happening and why I'm like triggered.

[288] I think I'm still really scared.

[289] I can't have kids.

[290] And how does that make you feel?

[291] Just scared.

[292] Yeah.

[293] My periods have been so weird.

[294] We've talked about this a little bit.

[295] And every time I have a weird period, I'm like, I'm infertile.

[296] Like, I think that every time.

[297] So I'm off the birth control.

[298] I've been off of it since then.

[299] I'm just like, it's taking my body a long time to adjust.

[300] But also, what if it's never going to adjust?

[301] I don't know.

[302] So it's been kind of a lot.

[303] Yeah.

[304] I don't know if I'm going to have kids.

[305] Is there a bigger question, right, that if you don't have the answer to it or you have little pieces of, quote, not even evidence, but little artifacts that could go to prove that story, right?

[306] Of course, that's triggering.

[307] Like, we're not talking about, you know, you had a scar removed and, like, I mean, even that for people, like, that can be, sorry, that was like so specific.

[308] Like, someone's like, well, I had a scar.

[309] But this is so big.

[310] She's minimized.

[311] I'm not a scar minimizer.

[312] Also, how can you have a scar removed?

[313] I don't even know.

[314] I don't even know why I said that.

[315] I don't even know what that is.

[316] Did you mean mole?

[317] Moll?

[318] Maybe a mole.

[319] Okay, mole removed.

[320] A non -cancerous mole.

[321] And even that, that's not.

[322] Okay, cut it out.

[323] I'm not.

[324] I'm not.

[325] I'm not keeping.

[326] it.

[327] It's not like, should I get a donut or a muffin or like, I don't know if I'll be able to eat banana muffins anymore.

[328] This is such a, you know, fundamental question in your life.

[329] Yeah.

[330] And again, I said it on the podcast.

[331] Like, I was astonished at how quickly you did, quote unquote, bounce back.

[332] Well, turns out I didn't, really.

[333] No, but you did.

[334] You intellectualized it a lot because you were doing a podcast about it.

[335] And so you had to explain it and understand it.

[336] And sometimes that makes us feel like, okay, now that I understand it, I'm over it.

[337] Yes.

[338] But that's not how ambiguous grief works too, right?

[339] And, you know, I wanted to ask you, like, do you feel like you should be over it?

[340] Because it feels totally normal to me that you would be triggered.

[341] And it seems like what's bothering you is why.

[342] And to me, there is no why.

[343] Like, of course you are.

[344] And maybe that would make those feelings linger less if you were judging the feeling, right?

[345] saying, like, I shouldn't be feeling this.

[346] It's something I try to do and I fail at it all the time, like just being curious about feelings as opposed to trying to figure it out so I can make it go away.

[347] Totally.

[348] No, that's right.

[349] I think now is the time where I am going down that road where it's like, oh, it's okay for me to be feeling this and maybe it's even more normal than not to be feeling it.

[350] Totally.

[351] It is so important for me to unravel why they're happening so that I can take some steps, right?

[352] I mean, what we talked about was she's like, okay, so you have fear around it.

[353] So does that clarify whether you really think you want them or you don't?

[354] That's still a question in the mix, too.

[355] And so then it's like really getting honest with myself about that.

[356] Because I think also part of me feeling like, I'm not sure if I do is a little also self -protective.

[357] Right.

[358] Right.

[359] You know, it's just like taking off each layer of like all versions of just trying to protect yourself ultimately.

[360] But you do need to know the truths underneath so you can take steps to get what you want.

[361] It's so hard to say what you want.

[362] Even in your own head or like there's just a chance that you're not going to get it or that it's going to be taken away from you or all those things.

[363] I get that.

[364] I think I did that for a long time too with kids.

[365] Like I think the egg freezing made it so undeniable for me. But what was also, and again, this might be helpful, like, okay, what is the worst case scenario?

[366] And not in a, you know.

[367] Doomsday.

[368] Yeah, dramatizing it.

[369] And we kind of did this with Esther.

[370] Yeah.

[371] When she came in, right, it's very different.

[372] But I was like, oh, what if I never meet someone or whatever, right?

[373] And she's like, okay, what if, you know, you don't meet someone in the time frame that you need, you know, to have a kid in that way?

[374] And that stuck with me when she was like, you reimagined how your fertility, why are you not reimagining family?

[375] Yeah.

[376] Right?

[377] Why aren't you giving yourself the same kind of freedom to get outside of that box?

[378] And that actually you might be more happy outside of that box.

[379] Yeah.

[380] Not just like, well, I'm going to have to do it this way, but that that might actually be a better way.

[381] Or maybe there's a way you haven't even thought about.

[382] And I don't know if that's helpful to you.

[383] I also feel like an expert could just tell you like, no. I know, sort of bring down some of these.

[384] Because I don't know, are you Googling stuff?

[385] Like I feel like I would just be hours and hours of rabbit hole and just be like, yeah, I have, you know, ovary cancer.

[386] There's no doubt.

[387] Well, yeah, I've already self -diagnosed myself with PCO at, like all of these things.

[388] Yeah, I did go to a new guy now.

[389] She wants me to track my period for the next few months and then go back to her.

[390] And I was supposed to get some blood work done, but then I didn't because it was a Saturday and nothing was open.

[391] It's like, oh, my God.

[392] Everything around all this feels chaotic.

[393] It's like when we were in it, it was chaotic.

[394] And now the idea of doing it again feels chaotic and it's like, oh, fuck.

[395] This again.

[396] This again.

[397] Yeah.

[398] But also, I do think a second time doing it is going to feel much different.

[399] I'm curious how that will feel because it might feel a little more routine.

[400] I'm not sure.

[401] Okay.

[402] I do want to tell people that you are currently icing.

[403] I am no socks on, barefoot on the couch.

[404] Has anyone ever done that?

[405] It's so gross.

[406] I'm so sorry.

[407] Oh, I think I have.

[408] Okay, great.

[409] But you lost your footing.

[410] Okay, I don't like that term.

[411] I'm old, but I'm not that old.

[412] I don't even want to say sprain.

[413] I twisted.

[414] I twisted my ankle.

[415] Okay, it just got a little twisty.

[416] I was going down a hill.

[417] I may have been texting.

[418] Oh, God.

[419] Probably you.

[420] And I fell.

[421] And then I caught myself.

[422] So I didn't like break my front teeth, but I definitely twisted my ankle.

[423] But the good news is no one saw me. That's the first thing you do when you fall.

[424] You just look around and then you get back up and you keep walking.

[425] That's what even happening when I got hit by a car, like on a bike.

[426] Yeah.

[427] If anyone has been in an accident, obviously if it's not, you know, to the point where you're unconscious or heavily injured, you just like get back up.

[428] Yeah.

[429] You're like, I'm fine.

[430] Yeah.

[431] It's like a weird survival thing.

[432] So I was in survival mode.

[433] Yeah.

[434] Do we think that is evolutionary?

[435] Because if you're injured and people see, you're weak, like you're immediately a target.

[436] Yeah.

[437] It's like kind of masculine.

[438] In a really weird traditional way.

[439] Yeah.

[440] It's like, no, I'm still strong.

[441] I'm fine.

[442] And I was like glimping.

[443] And I limped my way here.

[444] And then we were laughing about how on brand it was.

[445] And then Monica tripped right when she said it and almost twisted her ankle.

[446] And I was like, we're so synced up as we have been, which has also been a funny thing to track since our whole fertility journey was completely synced, which was crazy.

[447] And then even after so much of us.

[448] like, did you start a period today?

[449] No. An hour later.

[450] I started my period.

[451] Yeah, yeah.

[452] It's crazy.

[453] Even once I think I like packed pads because I knew you had had yours and then it like came in really handy.

[454] I have like a period tracker app and it's just you.

[455] It's just like you.

[456] Sinked is supported by element.

[457] Now, as you probably know, I am obsessed with electrolytes.

[458] It's like the only thing I really believe in.

[459] I feel like it brings me back.

[460] from the depths of the underworld.

[461] Yeah, I feel like electrolytes are often forgotten, right?

[462] People focus on vitamins and, you know, how much water they're drinking.

[463] And electrolytes is a really important thing that you should be hitting.

[464] And there's not a lot of, like, healthy ways of getting electrolytes, right?

[465] It's usually through, like, really sugary drinks or, like, things that aren't so good for your body.

[466] But that's why I love element because I could just get all the good for my body without any of the bad.

[467] Yeah, and I was just at a pool with some friends.

[468] And we had just come off of a pretty boozy day, I'll say it.

[469] And I force fed everyone element because everyone was struggling, let's be honest.

[470] And we bounced back.

[471] We were so ready to go immediately after because when you sweat, the primary electrolyte lost is sodium.

[472] Athletes actually lose up to seven grams per day.

[473] And when it's not replaced, it's common to experience muscle cramps, fatigue, sleepiness.

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[487] Okay, my favorite podcast, nobody's listening, right?

[488] They were talking about periods the other day, and she said she thinks that's a fallacy that periods sink up.

[489] No. Can you research it, Rob?

[490] Let's make the man research period syncing.

[491] Wait.

[492] Based on what?

[493] But anecdotally, I feel like it's true.

[494] It happens so often.

[495] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[496] But maybe there's just not enough science around it.

[497] We should do some experiment.

[498] I feel like there is science around it, and it's all about the pheromones and the smelling the hormones thing.

[499] Isn't it the nose?

[500] That makes the period thing?

[501] Yeah, you're smelling each other and your pheromones or hormones are sinking.

[502] We got Rob knows.

[503] I can tell.

[504] What happened?

[505] What is it?

[506] The Cleveland Clinic .org, there was.

[507] was a doctor that said that it's not true.

[508] Okay, but that's one man. It's a man?

[509] No, Stacey.

[510] Okay.

[511] Well, Stacy can we really trust.

[512] Stacey could be a male's name.

[513] I've heard it as a man. Well, Stacy, he or she says there isn't scientific evidence to back it up.

[514] Okay, so I think that's different.

[515] Right.

[516] It's like astrology and like moon shit.

[517] Oh, I love moon shit.

[518] It's all true.

[519] Oh my God, speaking up.

[520] Okay.

[521] I'm going to, maybe on this, every.

[522] Every week.

[523] I'll read our co -star.

[524] I know yours.

[525] I was like, that is the most on brand.

[526] Yeah.

[527] So yesterday's, or maybe I'll look at today's.

[528] Oh, I'm not allowed to say today and yesterday and stuff on these podcasts anymore.

[529] I got in trouble.

[530] I'm just kidding.

[531] She also says the moon stuff's not true either.

[532] Okay, Stacey's a skeptic.

[533] I don't trust her at all.

[534] I don't.

[535] What's she trying to prove?

[536] She was written by a man. She was written by man. Stacey was written by man. That's right.

[537] Okay.

[538] Our co -stars for today.

[539] So let's remind everyone, you're a Pisces, water sign, synchronized swimmer.

[540] I am a Virgo, Earth.

[541] I walk a lot.

[542] Okay.

[543] Now, for our co -star, the PSA's.

[544] Okay.

[545] PSA, Virgo, you can't fix anyone.

[546] I laughed out loud.

[547] It's so dead on.

[548] Did it make you mad to read it?

[549] Were you like, yeah?

[550] I was like, I want to fix You co -star and I'm gonna.

[551] No, I was just like, oh fuck, it's so true.

[552] I want to fix people.

[553] People are bad out there.

[554] Yeah, people are bad and you're good.

[555] No, I'm not.

[556] I feel like if I was as good as you.

[557] No, I'm actually not kidding.

[558] I feel like I would have your overconfidence that you can fix things because I feel like you can do a lot.

[559] Like if you set your mind to something, I feel like it happens.

[560] So I understand how that translates to people.

[561] That's really nice.

[562] Hey, I'm going to keep trying to fix everything.

[563] For you, PSA, nobody remembers that interaction you're ruminating over.

[564] Oh, my gosh.

[565] Also, so dead on.

[566] I mean, I told you about my celery.

[567] I went out of date.

[568] Oh.

[569] I went out of date this week, and I was eating a piece of celery.

[570] I was, like, nervous.

[571] Can I have a little question about the celery?

[572] How was it cut?

[573] There were sticks, and it was kind of like these.

[574] Like buffalo wild wings?

[575] Yeah, like vegan buffalo wings.

[576] Okay.

[577] And then they put pieces of celery.

[578] Right.

[579] I'm a fan.

[580] I'm a fan.

[581] I love dipping celery into ranch.

[582] We're pro celery here.

[583] I'm pro celery.

[584] Yeah, big fan.

[585] But in that moment, for some reason, celery was like a foreign object.

[586] Like, I'd never eaten celery in my life.

[587] I was doing it for the very first time.

[588] And then I put a bit in my mouth and it kept falling out.

[589] And I was talking.

[590] It wasn't like, oh, they're talking.

[591] And so, you know, I'm captivating the entire attention.

[592] I'm like, look at me. Look at my mouth.

[593] I'm speaking.

[594] And then I'm, celery is coming in and out.

[595] And then a few seconds later, I tried to like prove I can eat it.

[596] Like I was like, okay, that was weird.

[597] But if I eat it well, then it'll make up for that first horrible incident.

[598] Yes.

[599] And then it worse.

[600] It like jumped out of my mouth.

[601] It was like the celery was just rejecting me. In that moment, I was like, it's over.

[602] And it was like 20 minutes into the date.

[603] I was like, this is a deal breaker.

[604] I was like, this is never, like the deal is done.

[605] And it wasn't, surprisingly.

[606] Surprisingly.

[607] You know, I wonder if it was actually a good move.

[608] Because you're like drawing a lot.

[609] of attention to your mouth?

[610] No, it was it.

[611] Rob, would that be hot if celery is like popping out of your mouth?

[612] Also, like, with celery, it was such a weird, not that it would have been better if it was like sauce coming out of my mouth.

[613] Or like, oh, chili.

[614] Oh, no, that would be worse.

[615] Yeah, that would be worse.

[616] Okay, maybe this was the best case scenario.

[617] Yeah.

[618] Maybe celery is the best food to be choking out of your mouth.

[619] I'm going to blame the restaurant.

[620] Yes.

[621] Okay.

[622] For sure.

[623] Because I think if.

[624] If.

[625] If it's good, snappy celery, it should snap into your mouth easy.

[626] But sometimes when it's a little older, it has those strings.

[627] That's, yes.

[628] What did it have those?

[629] It had strings.

[630] And I think I was trying to be cool and, like, break it and then put it in my mouth.

[631] That was the mistake.

[632] Don't try and be cool, okay?

[633] Yeah.

[634] And what?

[635] It was like a cigarette for you.

[636] Like a cigarette.

[637] Yeah.

[638] I was just.

[639] Oh, my God.

[640] So embarrassing.

[641] Oh, my God.

[642] Yeah.

[643] Okay.

[644] So we're not going to overanalyze interaction.

[645] and we're not going to try and fix people.

[646] I can only have promise.

[647] I'm kidding.

[648] I'm really trying.

[649] If you try and think of moments where it didn't work, it'll probably help you.

[650] That's really real for me. Like, I've been the sheriff before, and it has not served me well.

[651] So I have been active in trying to not do that.

[652] It's hard.

[653] But I think I've gotten better.

[654] I do think I've gotten better.

[655] I feel like you've progressed a lot in the last.

[656] I mean, I can't believe it's been eight months since we do.

[657] Right?

[658] But yeah, you're doing great, dude.

[659] Also, it's not a, you know, coming back to the egg stuff.

[660] It's just not a, okay, this is done now.

[661] It sucks, but accepting that.

[662] Work in progress.

[663] Literally, nothing is done.

[664] That can feel really demoralizing.

[665] I feel like it can make some people just give up.

[666] Like, what's the point of all this?

[667] If every day I have to work the same amount to get to zero, you know?

[668] but also I have the upside actually Okay The upside is with control and stuff like that Would you really want to live your life Knowing how everything is going to happen Because control is all about For me particularly I want to know what's going to happen If I were going to sit down and watch a movie And know how it ends Would the movie be as fun?

[669] Oh my God, yes That's why I've watched Goodwell hunting four billion times In contagion 40 ,000 times It's even better when you know the ending Wow of a good movie.

[670] Okay, wait, let me phrase it differently.

[671] Okay, if you knew how everything in your life was going to go, would you choose that life over the one that you have now?

[672] No. Right?

[673] Well, no, no, I wouldn't.

[674] I wouldn't.

[675] It's scary.

[676] Of course.

[677] I'm not saying it's not in certain moments, because I struggle with this a lot, where I just want to know, I want to know, I want to know.

[678] You want to know because your brain is coming up with the worst case scenario.

[679] I want to know that it's not going to be bad.

[680] Exactly.

[681] And so I tell myself, like, I don't even know how good it's going to get as opposed to I know how bad it's going to get.

[682] I mean, it's a work in progress.

[683] You have to remind myself all the time.

[684] Okay.

[685] We are going to read a couple.

[686] We, but we got so many.

[687] I know.

[688] Also, thank you so much for people who wrote in.

[689] We might reach back out to some people to get a little more details on their questions.

[690] We want some deeps.

[691] We want some juicy.

[692] Deets on what's going on.

[693] And we haven't seen this, right?

[694] No. No. So that's what's kind of fun is I'm dry reading these.

[695] That's the acting term.

[696] Okay.

[697] Dry read.

[698] It means I have not read it yet.

[699] Okay.

[700] We're going to start with this one.

[701] It's fertility related.

[702] Okay, great.

[703] Family is upset.

[704] I won't donate my frozen embryos to a cousin.

[705] How would you handle this conversation?

[706] Okay.

[707] This is from Chelsea.

[708] I'm going to read it.

[709] Dry we.

[710] My husband and I did IVF last year and we have five frozen embryos in storage.

[711] Congratulations.

[712] That's great.

[713] Huge.

[714] Our plan is to only have one baby.

[715] Currently 40 weeks pregnant with that baby.

[716] Oh my God.

[717] Yay.

[718] Our plan is only have one because we have two older kids and the finances for a larger family aren't in the cards for us.

[719] We were on the fence about what we'd like to do with the remaining embryos, donate or discard.

[720] But after extensive therapy discussions, we realize neither of us is comfortable donating.

[721] and we'll discard them when we feel ready.

[722] Well, a cousin of mine recently had a full emergency hysterectomy and is devastated.

[723] She won't have biological children of her own now.

[724] She's struggled with endo for years and, of course, my heart breaks for her.

[725] I told my mom how much I hope she's able to have a family one day in whatever form that looks like.

[726] And then shortly thereafter, my mom decided to tell my cousin I would donate my embryos to her.

[727] Oh, my God.

[728] I was bewildered why my mom thought that was an appropriate thing to do because I made it clear my husband and I don't want to donate, and she told us family is different than donating to a stranger.

[729] For my husband and I, it isn't, though.

[730] We don't want to donate because we came to realize we never be able to let go of the idea that the kids were ours.

[731] I would always think of that child as being mine, and that's not fair to the parents or kid if I'm unable to step back.

[732] So now we're stuck in this huge family fight because so many people think we're being selfish and that discarding the embryos is morally unacceptable.

[733] Wow.

[734] Well, thank you, Chelsea, so much for writing, and that's a doozy.

[735] And also, I'm sorry that you're in this position.

[736] And I'm also proud of you for not being swayed because you know yourself, right?

[737] Like, you know, this is how I'm going to feel in that environment.

[738] I'm not going to be able to separate myself from it.

[739] And, you know, you have conviction around that.

[740] And I feel like a lot of people would be like, okay, I feel bad, I guess.

[741] I don't want people to be mad at me. And it's like really good to have boundaries.

[742] I mean, these are your embryos.

[743] Yeah, not just eggs.

[744] I thought at first when you described it, it was just about giving her the eggs, but a full embryo that's her and her husband.

[745] Yeah.

[746] I mean, that's just like a giant decision.

[747] And I think that any time that we're making a decision out of guilt, it's never the right decision for either party.

[748] That's the thing.

[749] There's a fight now that you have to get through.

[750] But imagine the tension that would exist for the rest of your life.

[751] life and the fights and the negative feelings you'll have forever if you decided to give into this.

[752] Right.

[753] And that the child will feel.

[754] Exactly.

[755] And you're bringing a child into this mix.

[756] Yeah.

[757] The conflict is the child.

[758] In many respects.

[759] Again, who knows what will happen.

[760] Maybe everything goes well.

[761] But that child feeling the weight of all of that.

[762] Yes.

[763] No matter what is also, ugh.

[764] This is an interesting sidebar sort of.

[765] But I do think that when we talk about fertility often and not to take it here but here we are abortion right it is really common to only think about the adults involved that woman has to have the baby and no one's really taking much time to think about the life of the child after right it's so interesting because ultimately that's what all of this is about the life of a child so you have to take that into consideration when you're making any of these choices at all in life.

[766] I'm thinking about that for myself.

[767] It's like when I'm like, will I be able to have a kid and will I have a partner?

[768] You know, I'm really thinking about it via my brain and not like what will the life of my child be like if I, X, Y, and Z. And that the life of their child, I mean, however you define that, but their embryo is their child, them having no control over how that happens and the harm that could happen as a result of it And can we talk about the fact that the mom said that they would do this on her behalf?

[769] I think Chelsea and her mom might want to have a conversation.

[770] To me, like, before we even get into the embryo and all of that, it's just like, why would you...

[771] Why do you still have the right to speak on my behalf?

[772] Yeah, period.

[773] But on something so big and important, and that has nothing to do with you.

[774] Yeah.

[775] It's her body.

[776] It's her embryo.

[777] To me, that's the sort of starting point.

[778] It's hard with families.

[779] Families are so funny.

[780] I think family is the most beautiful and heartbreaking thing.

[781] The people in your family, in my case anyway, are just the people who bring me the most joy and the most intimacy and connection and that I can feel the most pain if I'm not connected.

[782] Yeah, there's like dysfunction in all families.

[783] And even though, yeah, this is a big conversation to have with their mom, which again, I feel like is the first person I would go to and have a conversation with.

[784] These are hopefully moments of growth and repair and connection, even though they're hard conversations.

[785] So how do we think she should approach with the cousin?

[786] This is tricky because she's saying we don't want to donate because we came to realize we never be able to let go of the idea that the kid was ours.

[787] And that's very honest.

[788] That's just so honest.

[789] And I don't see how anyone could fight that.

[790] And if you are the cousin, you would not want.

[791] want to have a kid who people are around who think that's there.

[792] Like, you know, this all gets so complicated.

[793] I think there's something to be said and saying plainly, I wish we could make a different decision here.

[794] But I know that we will not be able to separate enough from this child, that it will always feel like ours.

[795] And I don't think that's fair to you or the child.

[796] I think it will end up causing a lot of conflict and tension.

[797] I'm so sorry.

[798] I also think a piece of this, which really sucks for Chelsea, is she's just also going to have to be comfortable knowing they might be upset, but that she made the right decision.

[799] Yeah.

[800] And that's the worst part of all of it is like when you know you're doing the right thing and people are still upset.

[801] Yeah.

[802] And not all feelings are permanent.

[803] Who knows how she'll feel in one year, two years, five years.

[804] I feel like there are so many times that I've had blowups and my family where now looking back, there's a recognition of like, I'm so glad you didn't do what I told you to do.

[805] Yes, exactly.

[806] And I also feel like when I'm in guilt, I tend to over -explain.

[807] Over -explaining can be this weird, I don't know if I want to call like a fawning response or like a coping mechanism and I'll just talk and talk and talk.

[808] And I almost feel like in this case, if I were Chelsea, I wouldn't say that much.

[809] Exactly.

[810] Keep it very simple.

[811] You have nothing to explain.

[812] I know.

[813] You have nothing to justify.

[814] This is yours and it's weird.

[815] What they're asking you to do and it's a lot and you don't feel comfortable.

[816] And that's actually the only thing you need to say.

[817] And that's when in nonviolent communication with all these eye messages, I see that you're really struggling with this, but I don't feel comfortable doing this.

[818] Let me know how I can support you in seeking out adoption or other people who could donate an egg.

[819] Let me know how I can support you.

[820] It's not just saying like, fuck you.

[821] Yeah.

[822] And like you're alone.

[823] It's this way to fix your problem is not possible.

[824] An option.

[825] But I'm here to support you.

[826] Yeah.

[827] I'm here to support other options with you.

[828] Yes.

[829] And help you figure that out.

[830] I think that then you're reframing the problem.

[831] Like it's her problem.

[832] Right now it's like your problem and it's not.

[833] And this is a really, I think I probably said this on Risa 35.

[834] I say it all the time.

[835] People are probably sick of it.

[836] But I have found it to be the most profound thing I've ever heard in therapy and it's around boundaries and this conversation is about boundaries totally you hear it all the time like you have to have boundaries and i thought i knew what that meant but then my therapist said it so clearly she said boundaries aren't you can't do this it's i won't do that yeah so you're not telling anyone else what to do what they can and can't do it's you yeah i won't i will not sit here and be yelled that I will walk out.

[837] You can't yell at me like that.

[838] So that, for me, is such a good framing of it.

[839] This is sort of an extension of that.

[840] It's, I have a boundary here.

[841] I will not be donating an embryo because it's not an option for me and my family.

[842] Yeah.

[843] And that's it.

[844] Whether it's an abortion, whether it's having a baby, no one should be ever making that decision for anybody.

[845] Again, it's not to the benefit of the person and not to the benefit of any child that comes into the world through someone else's decision, the more strongly you can sit in your decision and being steadfast and clear that it's the right decision for you, that's all you need to do.

[846] And yeah, they might be disappointed.

[847] Well, she'll be disappointed.

[848] She will be.

[849] You also have to expect it.

[850] Exactly.

[851] You know, have some expectations around that.

[852] Can't get what you want.

[853] You can't get any embryo.

[854] You want.

[855] She's like, oh, wee.

[856] We are supported by AG1.

[857] AG1 is a go -to.

[858] We've been drinking it forever, ever, since we started race to 35.

[859] I feel like we felt really bad.

[860] After the freezing, we needed to replan.

[861] And I feel like AG1 really was our tool.

[862] It is a tool, and you don't have to think about it, because it can be a lot, especially if you have a morning routine and you're trying to hit all these different things and start your day right.

[863] AG1 is like the easiest part of my morning because I know I'm getting everything that.

[864] I need and it makes me remember to like drink a whole glass of water, which also helps.

[865] And it tastes really good.

[866] It does.

[867] And sometimes I've been throwing it in smoothies, which is a nice little, wait, I got to try that.

[868] Yeah.

[869] It's so good.

[870] Instead of taking like a million supplements, you know, when you have the case of 400 supplements, you can just do one pack of AG1 a day.

[871] It's really awesome.

[872] It gives you energy.

[873] It supports your immune system.

[874] It has 75 high quality vitamins, probiotics, and whole food source ingredients.

[875] It's kind of a one -stop shop.

[876] Yeah, AG1 is really raising the standard for quality in the supplement category.

[877] I feel like a lot of people are into supplements and, you know, have you tried this or you tried that?

[878] And then I look into AG1 and like, I'm getting all of it from one thing and I am saving so much space in my cabinet for other things and more AG1.

[879] If you're looking for a simpler, effective investment for your health, try AG1 and get five free AG1 travel packs and a free one -year supply of vitamin D with your first purchase.

[880] Go to drinkag1 .com slash synced.

[881] That's drinkag1 .com slash synced.

[882] Check it out.

[883] Okay, let's do another one.

[884] This one's...

[885] Oh my God.

[886] Your eyes.

[887] Juicy.

[888] This is from Anonymous.

[889] How do you handle becoming close friends with your co -workers, including people who report up to you?

[890] I am lucky to have worked hard and climbed the ladder in my profession, and I am now a vice president with the big budget and a lot of people to manage and work with.

[891] Unfortunately, I am also a natural connector, and inevitably, over the years, I have formed some strong friendships with my coworkers and employees.

[892] I mean, we spend a ton of time together and I only hire people I click with.

[893] It's impossible.

[894] However, it can make things hard when there are serious conversations to be had, and sometimes I feel like it would be easier to have a completely separate work and social life.

[895] How do you handle being friends with someone who also depends on you for their income?

[896] What do you do when inevitably someone else on the team feels left out because I don't have a close friendship with you.

[897] Do I need to just jump ship and avoid this in my next job?

[898] And she says not really an option.

[899] That's a great question.

[900] I literally have been thinking about this for the last few weeks because I only work with my friends.

[901] I know.

[902] Because I work all the time.

[903] And I love working.

[904] Like to me, it's how I play with people.

[905] Yeah.

[906] And it comes with great parts and it comes with not so great parts.

[907] Really hard parts.

[908] working with someone already comes with all kinds of different dynamics, intentions, and complications, and then being friends with someone also.

[909] And then you put basically those two together.

[910] And so you're amplifying the fun, but also potentially amplifying the amount of conflict and how hard it is to navigate that conflict.

[911] That's the piece, right?

[912] It's how to extract yourself, like in a regular workplace environment where you're not working with your friends and there's conflict, which there will be.

[913] You can extract.

[914] You can extract.

[915] yourself.

[916] You can go home.

[917] You have different places to go and different landlines.

[918] When your go -to person is also the person you work with, also the person you have dinner with, it gets very, very, very complicated.

[919] And it can get very codependent.

[920] I feel like that's the label.

[921] And again, codependency can show up in all kinds of different ways.

[922] Can you describe it for people who might not understand codependency?

[923] I think you'll be better at describing it than me. Okay.

[924] I feel like you're really good at it too.

[925] Well, okay, you just did it.

[926] I feel like, well, you just did it.

[927] I feel like, I think some people think co -dependency is relying on each other.

[928] That's interdependency, which is great.

[929] Word program for that.

[930] To do that.

[931] Co -dependency, you know, this often comes in addiction.

[932] A codependent almost is addicted to the person with the addiction.

[933] It's their own addiction.

[934] Yeah.

[935] But am I doing a good job explaining?

[936] You are.

[937] I only know it because I am one and I feel it.

[938] Well, I love talking about how the term even came about because I think it helps people identify it.

[939] A .A., as we know, huge 12 -step program that's helpful to a lot of people, ever heard of it?

[940] A .A. and 12 -step programs is the most successful and free therapy program in the world.

[941] There's like a 12 -star program for almost anything.

[942] I'm in one.

[943] We know a lot of people who are in several of them.

[944] It's an incredible program.

[945] So in the 80s, I think it was 80s, there are all these A meetings.

[946] and this woman, Pia Melody, kept seeing wives, partners, husbands, sisters, kids of alcoholics coming to the meetings.

[947] Yes.

[948] And at one point, there were so many family members or friends or people in the life of an alcoholic that they were like, we got to create like a separate meeting.

[949] They're not here because they are alcoholics.

[950] It's a 12 -star program.

[951] It's anonymous.

[952] It's only people who have that addiction to alcohol.

[953] And so it's actually kind of distracting if there's all these other people.

[954] And so they created this separate program.

[955] And this woman basically went, they need a 12 -step program too because the alcoholics are here because what makes them a little bananas is the drinking.

[956] Whereas the other group, they're bananas and they're not drinking.

[957] Exactly.

[958] Right.

[959] So the substance is the alcoholic.

[960] The person.

[961] So instead of being addicted to a substance, you're addicted to people.

[962] And whether that's, you know, singular person in your life or in my case, it was just like a pattern in many of my relationships.

[963] And often it can start in the family.

[964] it's basically that your locus of control is is outside of yourself.

[965] Yes.

[966] So you're okay if the other person is okay.

[967] That creates all kinds of different patterns of control, of trying to fix, of trying to change, and like truly believing that you can change people.

[968] I mean, that was like, ding, ding, ding.

[969] When I was a child particularly, like, I thought I could.

[970] And sometimes I did.

[971] I know that for me has been the hardest part.

[972] Yeah.

[973] is when there's evidence, when it works.

[974] It works.

[975] Sometimes it works.

[976] And so then you think, no, no, but I'm different.

[977] I have this ability to help or to change.

[978] I'm the person that can see.

[979] You get addicted to that.

[980] And that's a really smart way of putting it.

[981] You're only okay if the other person's okay.

[982] And you're just as low if the other person is low.

[983] There's no separation from you and your addiction, the person.

[984] that can get very common in these types of workplace friendship relationships, because there is no separation, right?

[985] It all becomes a milkshake.

[986] I personally have found that you must, and it's hard, and I don't know, maybe our anonymous sinker, our anonymous.

[987] We got to come up with the name, is going to have to make sure that she has relationships that are not at work.

[988] She needs to make sure she, She fills out the rest of her life with other types of relationships, and she's going to have to make sure the people that report to her also have that.

[989] Like, she can't be the end -all, be -all for anyone because that's where it gets tricky.

[990] And they might mean her having some distance and creating some distance from some of these people can still be friendly.

[991] It's really fucking hard.

[992] It's so hard.

[993] You can still be friendly and you can still do things, but emotionally, she's in charge.

[994] She has a position of power.

[995] Right.

[996] And it is incumbent on the person in the position of power.

[997] It's unfortunate, but it's on you to create that culture.

[998] Exactly.

[999] Yeah, that's a really good point.

[1000] I managed some teams when I worked at Vox.

[1001] And I found it so hard because if you are in charge, I think especially if you're a woman, no one is like, you know who I love and can't get enough of, my boss.

[1002] Meaning, I think I spent so much time trying to do my job well and trying to be liked.

[1003] And very often, those two things are not going to happen.

[1004] They can.

[1005] And are actually exactly in contradiction with each other.

[1006] Yes.

[1007] Because if you're super liked, then they might not respect you and you might not be able to execute that leadership position that you need to do.

[1008] And vice versa, it is tricky.

[1009] I mean, that's why people get pay more when they're like in charge of people.

[1010] Exactly.

[1011] Management particularly is kind of like.

[1012] Being a therapist, yes, you're dealing with logistics and tasks, but what you're really dealing with is people.

[1013] And my heart goes out to anyone who's a manager right now because it's very hard to keep that distance when people are struggling and people want to be their full selves at work and not be this robotic version.

[1014] I don't know.

[1015] I feel like it's harder to be a manager now in many ways.

[1016] So Emma, who works for us, who I love deeply, Emma worked with me at SoulCycle.

[1017] That's how I know her.

[1018] We work together equally at the front desk.

[1019] And when it was time for us to bring in someone to help us, I thought of her because she was so good.

[1020] So now Emma works for us.

[1021] She works for me. I do think we've done a very good job of understanding that the work and the friendship is separate, right?

[1022] So if I'm texting her and I'm just like, Emma, please send this email to X, Y, and Z have it say this.

[1023] I mean, that's probably not how I would talk to her as a friend, but we can compartmentalize those two things.

[1024] And it's just everyone going in with that knowledge, right?

[1025] Like, when we're at work, we're doing work.

[1026] And then maybe we do all go out for dinner after and that can be a little bit more lax and we shouldn't talk about work there.

[1027] Like, really separate those things, especially if there's a power dynamic.

[1028] Like, it's one thing if everyone, like when we worked at SoulCycle, we would go out after and we'd talk about work all day long because we're on the same level.

[1029] But when people are at different levels, that gets very complex.

[1030] And so if you're out socially, try to not make it about work at all.

[1031] And we do that.

[1032] When she's out here, she'll come.

[1033] We'll do like work meetings.

[1034] And then her and I will go get wine and we'll have a friendship hang.

[1035] And it has nothing to do with work.

[1036] And I think you have to have those compartments.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] That's a really good way to put it.

[1039] As I'm listening to, I'm also like, so work is boring.

[1040] Like, right?

[1041] You want to have fun at work.

[1042] So you do want to joke around.

[1043] But creating those receptacles.

[1044] or containers for fun.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] So like mid -30s.

[1047] Recepticals are fun.

[1048] Create a container around your fun.

[1049] Get a tray for fun.

[1050] Get a tray.

[1051] But I mean, look, honestly, we have this.

[1052] If I'm sending you a contract, it's a different type of conversation and interaction that it is when we are at the diner yesterday.

[1053] Everyone has to adjust to the different types.

[1054] of interactions if it's going to go smoothly.

[1055] Because there has to be some professionalism at a workplace.

[1056] There just does.

[1057] And there used to be.

[1058] I feel like we're so much more lax around stuff.

[1059] When I work with an assistant, and she's my bud too, so we'll go and have coffee and we're just talking about dogs and dates and all that fun stuff.

[1060] And if I'm texting her, it's like friend.

[1061] If I'm emailing her, it's like work.

[1062] I'm not like, fuck you do all my, you know, but it's workless on email.

[1063] And again, that's why I actually don't like to text her even about work things.

[1064] Right.

[1065] You want to keep that separate.

[1066] Yeah, that's where we, yeah, that's our friend.

[1067] And like, that's texting you.

[1068] Whereas like when it's an email, it's more formal, more straightforward.

[1069] If there's, you know, something I want to talk about or rectify or confirm, we talk about this a little bit of like, okay, let's put on our work hats.

[1070] And okay, now we have our friend hats.

[1071] The work hats are off and we're just hanging out.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] I think you can be overt in certain cases.

[1074] Exactly.

[1075] I think it's incumbent on you.

[1076] as the person in charge, to dictate this, to have a little bit of emotional distance.

[1077] I know, like, that really does suck, but it's required, I think, or things are going to get muddier and muddier and muddier.

[1078] It's good to start with a little space.

[1079] A little space just means you're not going to give your life story, you know, you're not going to talk about your poop yesterday's poop, you know, like just have some boundaries around it.

[1080] And then, yeah, and then plan like work hangs and say when you get there, like, We're not talking about work here.

[1081] Right.

[1082] And even the work hangs like, I mean, Me Too changed a lot of stuff.

[1083] I was in media for several years.

[1084] And there's definitely like a pre -me -to and a post -me -to kind of holiday party.

[1085] And the holiday parties pre -me2 were a limited bar, right?

[1086] And just 2 a .m. 3 am, like, stripping.

[1087] It's stripping.

[1088] It's making out.

[1089] Spend the bottle with the CEO.

[1090] No, no, no, no that.

[1091] But then post -me -to, I thought was a little bit more boring.

[1092] It was like a two -ticket, you know, to drink maximum.

[1093] And it started.

[1094] It started.

[1095] it earlier and finished earlier, as much as I was like, oh, this is boring.

[1096] It actually created more boundaries around it.

[1097] I liked that the bosses left at one point early enough that they showed up.

[1098] We had a good moment together.

[1099] But then they're not like out there all night with us.

[1100] I think those little things will make a big difference.

[1101] I think it's in the small things.

[1102] It is.

[1103] It's remembering like you can't really have it all.

[1104] I hate to say that.

[1105] But if you're the boss, you're the boss that comes with some negative stuff.

[1106] It comes with more money.

[1107] but you might not get to be best friends with everyone.

[1108] Wow.

[1109] That was a fun one.

[1110] All right.

[1111] We'll do one more because we can't get enough.

[1112] Okay.

[1113] This is from Lillian.

[1114] What's the appropriate way to split costs on a group vacation?

[1115] I just did this.

[1116] When there are singles, couples, kids, and varying incomes in the mix.

[1117] A friend is having a birthday weekend beach trip.

[1118] The folks going would be me, single, her and her partner, then one other couple with a kid.

[1119] she proposed we rent a 3B1B house wait oh my god thank you yes three bed three bedroom one house and presented the cost breakdown showing housing split evenly three ways this like a what's that thing that you guys do fast math the task to get into law school LSATs like there's three baby it's like a word problem okay I'm a teacher and this is out of my price range if it wasn't her birthday trip I don't invite a friend to split the cost of the room with.

[1120] I'm talking it through with my other friends and it turns out none of us know what the norm is here.

[1121] What's the default for a trip like this?

[1122] Splitting per bedroom or per person?

[1123] What about when kids enter the mix or if it's a much longer trip?

[1124] Thanks.

[1125] This is a great question.

[1126] This is a age -old question.

[1127] It was literally an episode of friends.

[1128] It's such a good episode.

[1129] It is.

[1130] It is where people are eating stupid soups, but then they all split it.

[1131] Yes.

[1132] The person wants to split it is always the person who got four appetizers.

[1133] I know.

[1134] Oh man. This gets heavy, right?

[1135] Because also, I'm taking it a little different direction.

[1136] Lillian is not insinuating this.

[1137] But there can also be a version of this where if someone's making a lot more money that they pay for everything, I actually think that's equally bad.

[1138] Oh, okay.

[1139] It's counterintuitive, right?

[1140] Because it's like, yeah, I should treat everyone.

[1141] I have the ability.

[1142] I actually think that leads to some interesting friendship dynamics.

[1143] Sure.

[1144] So I think it is good that everyone in some way put money towards a trip.

[1145] I agree.

[1146] And that's a little bit different than what Lillian's saying, but I'm just putting that out there.

[1147] I mean, I even remember like dating someone, and not that you always have to do this in a couple too, but I was dating someone and And things were weird.

[1148] And then he got an Airbnb.

[1149] And I remember him being like, no, no, no, don't pay for it.

[1150] I got it.

[1151] And I just Venmoed it.

[1152] And it changed the whole dynamic of the trip for the better.

[1153] Yes.

[1154] Because suddenly I wasn't like in his space.

[1155] And thank you so much.

[1156] And it just made us equal.

[1157] You don't have to be deferential to him.

[1158] And if he wants to go to this restaurant and you want to go to this restaurant, if he has paid for everything, you can't help but be like, well, he's paid.

[1159] So I guess we'll just do it.

[1160] He's in charge to do.

[1161] And that just needs to weird hierarchies.

[1162] I couldn't.

[1163] see the hierarchy until it wasn't there anymore.

[1164] And that's when I was like, wow, this is why this relationship is weird, right?

[1165] That's so interesting.

[1166] And by the way, I'm not saying everything should be split evenly.

[1167] Me too.

[1168] But I think if you're contributing something, you end up feeling better.

[1169] I know that feels so strange.

[1170] It does.

[1171] It feels counterintuitive, but you're 100 % right.

[1172] And even sometimes what you contribute can look differently.

[1173] I know I've been in situations in my life where like, I can't afford the, you know, whatever.

[1174] So I'll cook for everybody.

[1175] Exactly.

[1176] And I'll create a service or contribute in a way that is really meaningful, but that's not necessarily financial.

[1177] Yes, absolutely.

[1178] But to her question, I don't think a single person should be paying the same as the couples.

[1179] Should they?

[1180] A lot of this is about sleeping, right?

[1181] I mean, that becomes like, oh, it's like, who gets a bed?

[1182] This also is a whole thing if you're with couples and singles.

[1183] Like couples automatically get the best bed.

[1184] They get the best bed.

[1185] They get the best.

[1186] bed and you get the pull out.

[1187] Because just you.

[1188] It's just you.

[1189] So you deserve to be the least comfortable one.

[1190] I mean, it's funny because I just went on a girl's trip to Coachella for the first time.

[1191] And me and my friend Eliza, we're in the low end of our group.

[1192] And so we're always figuring out ways to save.

[1193] And we split a bed.

[1194] And I think that we deserve to pay less because we split a bed.

[1195] Okay.

[1196] So in your situation, there's how many rooms?

[1197] There were three rooms and how many five of us.

[1198] So one person had their own room and the two other ones shared beds.

[1199] And I feel like the person who gets her own room should be paying more.

[1200] Exactly.

[1201] I agree.

[1202] Yes.

[1203] Whether it's a couple or a person, right?

[1204] Like, I think it should be per room.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] And the room rate then was splited between the two of you.

[1207] So it's kind of like split evenly the rooms.

[1208] When we do trust of their families, I'll offer to pay a little more because I want the primary bedroom.

[1209] Right.

[1210] Well, right.

[1211] Yes.

[1212] If you get the bigger room because there's kids and all that stuff that you should be.

[1213] be paying more than the smaller room.

[1214] But I think we're kind of all saying the same thing.

[1215] It's like it's kind of the breakdown of the room situation.

[1216] It's like the nicest room, biggest room, you probably pay more.

[1217] Yeah.

[1218] It's a complicated equation where you weight each of the room.

[1219] I know.

[1220] Okay, let me see.

[1221] Okay, so it's she's single.

[1222] Then there's two couples.

[1223] And one of the couples has a kid.

[1224] Okay, probably three bedroom, one bedroom.

[1225] So here's the thing.

[1226] The problem is in this case, she is going to have her own bedroom.

[1227] The shittiest bedroom.

[1228] She'll get the shodiciest one.

[1229] Right, because the couple with the kid is going to get the best room, biggest room.

[1230] Then the other couple is probably going to get the second, even though that's not fair.

[1231] But yeah.

[1232] And then she's going to get the third.

[1233] The cellar with the bed.

[1234] Let's say, for the sake of this, they're all the same size.

[1235] The problem is, and I see this, she just will have a bedroom to herself.

[1236] But she's like, I would need to split that.

[1237] The one bathroom also complicates it.

[1238] That is a horrible idea.

[1239] That's like a separate rate of like five people sharing the bathroom.

[1240] One bathroom, they're all sharing.

[1241] The bathroom split five ways as well.

[1242] No, I mean, look, the truth is no one's going to do this type of math.

[1243] I mean, to me, it's out of her price range.

[1244] Why is she going?

[1245] They should be making that call up.

[1246] They should be aware that their friend can't afford it.

[1247] Totally.

[1248] You can't afford it.

[1249] I mean, that's where this starts.

[1250] Yeah, people need to make up for that.

[1251] Or say you can bring somebody else or pay what you can or we'll find another place or it won't work.

[1252] Yeah, exactly.

[1253] If you can't afford it, you're going to be resentful.

[1254] Okay, last year I planned a trip.

[1255] It was my idea and I wanted to pay the majority of it.

[1256] But I still have this sense of what I said at the beginning, which is I do think like everyone feels better if everyone's contributed something.

[1257] So I paid half and then everyone split the rest.

[1258] But it was per person, not including.

[1259] kids but the rest of the adults split so it wasn't per bedroom it was per person i mean part of it goes into the planning though too like if everyone is having an equal say and we're renting this house for this budget yeah or you're being like i'm just going to get this baller house right and here's what i want to pay and here's what i want everyone else to cover yeah exactly but i guess like me doing that i knew that everyone would be able to afford it's like you have to know what people can afford and not afford.

[1260] But so she wants to bring a friend?

[1261] Yeah, but it's that person's birthday.

[1262] It'd be like if I brought you to, well, and it wouldn't be if I brought you, but it'd be like, if I brought Rob to Callie's birthday trip.

[1263] This was fun.

[1264] He's like, let's go.

[1265] I mean, okay, if I brought like that guy to Callie's birthday trip, you know, like, I think she's saying she'd bring a friend, but that friend isn't connected to these people.

[1266] I mean, so would be your boyfriend.

[1267] Like, if you were in a relationship.

[1268] Like, this is the part where I'm like, we're just set up to fail.

[1269] Why can't we bring a significant other?

[1270] No one knows.

[1271] If I was having sex with that person, then they would be coming.

[1272] Why, if we're not having sex?

[1273] Although, is it different?

[1274] Well, I'm just being real.

[1275] So it was my birthday.

[1276] You don't want a bunch of boyfriends?

[1277] I don't.

[1278] And then I'd be like, okay, I'll pay the difference.

[1279] Yeah, I know.

[1280] If really, she can't afford it.

[1281] She should say, like, I can afford this if I'm bringing a person and then see what the group says.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] And then the group can say, oh, we don't really want to.

[1284] Well, like, we'll split your difference.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] Or they'll say, sure.

[1287] Or they'll say we're uncomfortable and then you can discuss.

[1288] I think so.

[1289] I think she just needs to be clear.

[1290] She can't afford it.

[1291] Yes.

[1292] As far as just in general, splitting per bedroom or per person, I guess it's case by case.

[1293] Yeah.

[1294] It was on the house entirely.

[1295] It's a tough one.

[1296] Yeah.

[1297] I mean, I think it's per room.

[1298] I've done a lot of these, you know, when I'm single and I just go like, this is going to be more.

[1299] I mean, traveling single is just more expensive.

[1300] You know, you're not splitting with anyone.

[1301] Default per room.

[1302] Right.

[1303] But maybe there's some wiggle room in there.

[1304] There's some factors because some rooms will be better than others.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] And maybe that can be his thing.

[1307] You're like, I'm having.

[1308] I'm happy.

[1309] to take the smaller room.

[1310] If I could pay less, so I can afford this.

[1311] Right.

[1312] You know, just give options.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] And also kids, unfortunately, kids don't have money.

[1315] Yeah.

[1316] So you have to, you have to remove them from the equation.

[1317] I think so too.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] It's just the adults you're kind of factoring in.

[1320] Yeah.

[1321] If there's plenty of food costs and groceries, I would expect the people with kids to pay more.

[1322] But that's just me. Really?

[1323] I would.

[1324] I wouldn't be mad if they didn't.

[1325] But if I had kids and I was bringing my kids, I would be like, whoa.

[1326] chimp in more.

[1327] What's a headcount at that point for the food?

[1328] Including the kids' heads.

[1329] Maybe you're doing a half head for a kid.

[1330] Oh, God.

[1331] No. It's a lot of math.

[1332] It is an Excel spreadsheet.

[1333] This weekend, Rupy put us all on Splitsville.

[1334] Well, no, what's it called?

[1335] Split.

[1336] No, it's like, it's kind of a great app.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] It's not sponsored.

[1339] It's called Splitwise.

[1340] You put your Venmo, and then every time you, like, I paid for this Uber, for all of us to go, or like, someone bought groceries, and you put it in, and then everyone just like transfers, like, like, pays you back.

[1341] Oh, interesting.

[1342] And so there's no weird, like, adding up.

[1343] Oh, my God.

[1344] We went to a Bachelorette party a year and a half ago, maybe, and figuring out the money at the end of all this was laughable.

[1345] It was so insane.

[1346] And it wears you out.

[1347] You're ultimately just like, whatever.

[1348] So Rupi and our friend Eliza, we went on a trip to Ibiza, and we ended up thinking we would all split it.

[1349] And in the end, it kind of evens out.

[1350] Right.

[1351] And maybe, yeah, a few bucks difference, but if you do it kind of by ear, you know, it usually kind of, if you play by ear, if you cite read.

[1352] No, what's the word I'm looking for like when you even it out by Allé, we say in French, like with your eye, eyeing it out.

[1353] I don't know.

[1354] Oh my God.

[1355] By ear was, I think, right.

[1356] I'm sorry.

[1357] French rabbit hole.

[1358] I know what you mean, though.

[1359] It's like you can feel if someone's pay way overpaid or not.

[1360] And then even that out.

[1361] Yeah, girls trips, it's not even a girl trip.

[1362] But I feel like there can be so much drama and conflict, and I think the money thing, you just want to keep it as simple as possible.

[1363] But it's so hard not to make it into a thing.

[1364] Especially, again, like in the Friends episode where people have different incomes, which that's very common.

[1365] That's in most group dynamics.

[1366] 100%.

[1367] And it's not like one person's always making more people's situations change.

[1368] Yes.

[1369] Okay.

[1370] It's okay.

[1371] We have answered it.

[1372] I hope that at least Lillian, you know, that all of this is normal.

[1373] We're all dealing with this bullshit.

[1374] And they're probably thinking about another version of this.

[1375] I know.

[1376] And it's normal to feel this kind of trepidation.

[1377] Cautionary tale, because I know that there's some people that are like, well, if you have a lot of money, like none of this is an issue.

[1378] I understand feeling that.

[1379] Obviously, having a higher income or more money makes things easier.

[1380] There's just no getting around it.

[1381] It does.

[1382] But my friends, they went on a birthday trip.

[1383] It was a person's maybe 50th or 60th birthday or something.

[1384] very wealthy person, extremely wealthy person, who paid for everyone.

[1385] Oh, my gosh.

[1386] Private jet to this amazing resort in Mexico.

[1387] Everything paid for.

[1388] The whole resort was like bought out.

[1389] And then, you know, like dinners every night, parties.

[1390] They paid for like face paint or something.

[1391] I don't know.

[1392] Massages.

[1393] Face paint.

[1394] Is like so expensive.

[1395] Base paint is a big stretch.

[1396] Like, if you are paying for people's face pain.

[1397] Private jet fine.

[1398] Space pain?

[1399] What?

[1400] Anyway.

[1401] Okay, but I can't give any details, but basically this party turned where it became a white lotus situation.

[1402] All of a sudden, they're in this environment where they're like, oh, no, this is really bad and wrong.

[1403] But you're stuck.

[1404] Yeah.

[1405] And this person has paid and you think you're in this lap of luxury.

[1406] But then you also feel like, well, I can't say something's wrong.

[1407] It just can get very complicated.

[1408] So money can also fuck things up to.

[1409] And there are situations too where someone's offering to pay for everything.

[1410] And then something turns in the trip.

[1411] They don't feel like they're getting what they need or wanted or expect it.

[1412] They're always not strings attached, but again.

[1413] Power dynamics.

[1414] And then you can end up being kicked out.

[1415] Getting a bill or being kicked out.

[1416] Or they change their mind or there's an assumption.

[1417] And then they're like, oh, no, actually only this part was paid.

[1418] And then you get, I don't know, if it sounds too good to be true.

[1419] Yeah, it might be.

[1420] It might be.

[1421] It might be.

[1422] And so I think maybe just being honest up front is a good move of like, hey, I'm struggling a little bit right now financially, just letting you know.

[1423] I mean, I'd still love to try to make this work.

[1424] But I don't think I can afford a full room by myself.

[1425] Just like be honest about that.

[1426] Start giving options that you know they won't even really want to go with.

[1427] Like, maybe I could come for less night so that I can afford it.

[1428] Like, so that you're kind of, you know, giving them an option if they want to extend any generosity without asking for it.

[1429] And look, if they don't, then you have your answer.

[1430] And then you'll do a little dinner with them or whatever, right?

[1431] Like, it happens.

[1432] And I think that's a better option than going somewhere where you're being resentful or feeling stressed with money.

[1433] It won't be fun for you.

[1434] Well, it makes it easier for her to say, I'll bring my friend then, too.

[1435] Yes.

[1436] If they're like, no, this is a hard line.

[1437] It's going to be more expensive.

[1438] That could be one of the options is, could I possibly bring someone who else but I'll split the rumor.

[1439] Right.

[1440] I mean, I will just say here, no one is allowed to bring a random friend to my birthday.

[1441] To my birthday trip.

[1442] To my birthday trip.

[1443] To my birthday party, that's even still, I don't love it.

[1444] What if they went a few dates with this person and then are dating them?

[1445] I don't love it.

[1446] Okay.

[1447] Then you're consistent.

[1448] At my birthday party, house trip, I want to feel the most comfortable.

[1449] And so if there's like a new person, no thanks.

[1450] Got it.

[1451] Even if it is your new boyfriend.

[1452] I'm such a Pisces.

[1453] I'm like, that seems so mean, but that's me. It just depends.

[1454] Oh, it's all so nuanced.

[1455] Okay, well, this was so fun.

[1456] I'm so happy to be back with you.

[1457] We'll be back to answer more really fun, thoughtful questions.

[1458] I mean, every time we do anything at all under our armchair umbrella, I'm always just so honestly moved.

[1459] Me too.

[1460] By how thoughtful our listeners are and, in.

[1461] interesting and introspective.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] And so all these questions are amazing.

[1464] And we're so excited to keep going through them and keep you updated on Liz's foot.

[1465] And she did lose her footing.

[1466] She hates that, but she did lose her footing.

[1467] And her celery boyfriend.

[1468] And her celery boyfriend.

[1469] That's right.

[1470] All right.

[1471] We'll see you next week.

[1472] See you.