62 - Trust Issues & Ice Skate Shoes

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVey, Melissa McCarthy, DeVey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Murders in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Welcome to my favorite murder episode.

[17] What is it?

[18] 67.

[19] Is it?

[20] I think so.

[21] Wow.

[22] It's up there.

[23] We're pushing 70, baby.

[24] Holy crap.

[25] I know, that's kind of weird.

[26] Yeah.

[27] We're still kind of a baby, but we're not.

[28] We're like one of those old babies that's at New Year's.

[29] That you're like, should that baby still be breastfeeding?

[30] You're like, that baby shouldn't be up this late, and it shouldn't be wearing a suit.

[31] No. No. Isn't it weird to see older babies with diapers?

[32] And I don't know how old babies are supposed to be when they stop wearing diapers.

[33] And you're like, is that not right?

[34] You mean the ones that are also wearing polo shirts?

[35] like, then stand around with long hair, drinking bottles, like they were on the place.

[36] Like adults?

[37] Yeah.

[38] Oh, yeah.

[39] Hey, I met a girl today who met Ted Bundy's brother.

[40] Really?

[41] Yeah.

[42] She said that she grew up in town, but she was a lot younger.

[43] And she said that she was at a bar one time back home and her friend introduced her to this guy.

[44] And she was like, the whole time was like, there's something about his face.

[45] It looks familiar.

[46] And then she said, but he also had this like, in his eyes, this incredible look of sadness.

[47] and when he left her friend was like that's ted bundy's little brother oh wow i know that's crazy i know can you imagine did he have a little brother well maybe she was lying i don't know i mean i now i really i'm the last person who would know for sure and i did ted bundy on this show oh why would you know but i mean it doesn't stick with me but i know he had an older sister that also was his mom right i wonder if his little brother if he had one, was his mom's sister or his grandma sister.

[48] If it was, if they figured that stuff out in the Bundy family after Ted left.

[49] Right.

[50] Or, yeah, if it was.

[51] Yeah.

[52] Still.

[53] Rabbit hole.

[54] I bet his last name wasn't Bundy.

[55] I think it was.

[56] Really.

[57] Yeah.

[58] So it was like, this is Mike Bundy.

[59] Peter, Mike or Greg Bundy.

[60] The Bundy Bundy bunch.

[61] The Bundy Bunch.

[62] Come on, Karen.

[63] Let me say it one more time.

[64] So, wait, you didn't, when you said those three names, you didn't realize you were doing a Brady Bunch reference until that moment?

[65] First two, I did that.

[66] The Greg, I did.

[67] Then you caught up to yourself.

[68] Then I was like, and that's the moment of comedy.

[69] Is that it?

[70] That's the fun moment where you go.

[71] The comedy's writing itself.

[72] Oh.

[73] That's what that's phrase means.

[74] It writes itself.

[75] Oh.

[76] It doesn't really.

[77] I'm so much to learn.

[78] It reminds me of your awesome blossom moment on stage in Morgan.

[79] You'll all know what we're talking about later on.

[80] If we decide to post it.

[81] Oh, yeah.

[82] It's just always a secret.

[83] This is my favorite murder by the by, if anyone is unsure.

[84] Yeah.

[85] My favorite murder, that's Karen.

[86] I'm Georgia.

[87] We just got back from three shows in Portland that all are fucking awesome.

[88] Such a fun weekend.

[89] And thank you for the donuts.

[90] Thank you for the laughter and the screaming.

[91] Thank you for lots of good stories and things to walk.

[92] away from Revolution Hall was such a fun place to perform in case we don't post it can you tell the story of the army crawl yes so let's see that was the second night I think so no no it was the first night second show okay yes first night second show so second show yeah um we were at the end and I had picked a girl to do her hometown murder right we call someone up from the audience And she was telling this story about how her cousin found a dead body.

[93] And it was immediately my favorite story we've had so far because it was all the things that I enjoy, which is her cousin happening upon a dead body in a creek.

[94] Come to find out that's the dead body of a rapist and kidnapper, perhaps murderer, who was on the lamb.

[95] So we were happy about him being dead, so it didn't feel gross.

[96] Yeah, no guilt about the body, about the.

[97] finding of the body or the discussion of the finding of the body.

[98] And as this girl is telling the story, she tells the whole story of the crime he did right before he went on the lamb and then somehow died in the creek.

[99] They don't know.

[100] And I asked a specific question about, did your cousin tell you anything about what it felt like to find the body or touch the body or whatever?

[101] And she said she didn't know.

[102] And then they went, Georgia said something.

[103] They went on to talking.

[104] I look over Georgia's shoulder and there is a girl Elmer Fudd style sneaking down the aisle Not the aisle On stage No no she I watched her come up the aisle sneaking like a cartoon With her shoulders up And her knees raised high Sneaky sneaking And then she does an army roll onto the stage And that's when I Interrupt the two of them And then I saw Before this happened I saw Karen's face over my shoulder And it was like I got chills just looking at your face because you looked like horrified.

[105] Yeah.

[106] And I slowly turn around in slow motion.

[107] There's a girl walking towards us on stage.

[108] And I say that's not cool.

[109] You have to get off the stage right now.

[110] You went straight up to her.

[111] I was just like, because I'm thinking just drunk.

[112] You know, the beers at Revolution Hall were $3.

[113] People were definitely partying.

[114] It was the second show.

[115] It was a bit rowdy.

[116] Late night, yeah.

[117] But she finally explains that she is the girl telling the story.

[118] sister.

[119] I want to say that girl's name is Nicole, but I don't remember.

[120] No idea.

[121] There's no way.

[122] Finally, we realized she's okay to be there.

[123] And the only reason she came up on stage was because she knew the answer to the question I was asking.

[124] In sister fashion, she needed to correct her sister.

[125] Yes.

[126] Because her sister was doing something wrong.

[127] Correct and add.

[128] Right.

[129] But, and then gave us great additional information.

[130] And then it turned out to be the greatest hometown two -parter double sister storytelling.

[131] Yeah, but then the next night, Two, another sister came up.

[132] That was weird.

[133] Yes.

[134] That was super weird.

[135] That it was just like, fine.

[136] It was sisters backing up sisters weekend all weekend in Portland.

[137] It was great.

[138] It was so much fun.

[139] Everybody was so great.

[140] Yeah.

[141] It really added.

[142] Yeah.

[143] Thank you, Portland.

[144] So I have a corrections score.

[145] Oh, oh.

[146] Karen.

[147] I have to apologize.

[148] Hobo is an absolutely okay word to say.

[149] It is.

[150] And it doesn't mean anything derogatory.

[151] It's just a, what is it called, you know?

[152] And it's the thing.

[153] It's a snipsnap?

[154] It's a sniff snap and everything's fine.

[155] Were you thinking of bum?

[156] I guess a couple people suggested that.

[157] I probably was putting them together.

[158] I just, in my mind, though, still, like walking by a homeless person and saying, look at that hobo, just sounds so, maybe it's just the way it sounds in my head.

[159] You know what I mean?

[160] Yes.

[161] It's contextual and interpretive, but the word.

[162] word itself is not from like yeah and I corrected you so hard and I'm sorry oh thank you for apologizing that's very very nice of you um I found out do you know and this is very separate but it's this reminds me of it because none of us want to be an asshole no or talk about people asshole style and I'm still I think this podcast has made me even more aware of like everything about that oh yeah okay yeah we hear about it all the time all the time um did you know that that when you call the sprinkles that you put on top of a Sunday jimmies that that's racist i would never use that word i never knew it i always called them that i always called them that i think it's racist yeah i think that a lot of things i just assume are racist and this sound bad like that why does it sound bad i because i think i've heard before what the oh okay what's the background called I, it might be like, like a, like a nicknamey thing for Jim Crow.

[163] Oh.

[164] Because they're chocolate.

[165] Oh.

[166] So it's, once someone explained it to me, I said it out loud somewhere.

[167] And someone turned around and was like, what are you doing?

[168] And I was like, what do you mean?

[169] Isn't it weird when people, like, you didn't know that one, but when people say a word that you're like, are you like, are like the R word for people who are mentally challenged, yes, that people, that I know that live in California, like Los Angeles.

[170] I've heard people say that word and I'm like, how the fuck do you not know that you don't use that word?

[171] It's got to feel bad.

[172] Yeah.

[173] There was a really good PSA video that was put out about using the R word that I really loved.

[174] It was back, it was when I was still on Facebook.

[175] So it was like at least five years ago or six years ago.

[176] I know.

[177] It's a brag.

[178] I'll bring it up anytime I can.

[179] I'm no longer on Facebook.

[180] I still call Starbucks coffee small medium or large.

[181] So I think you and I are in the same, but you totally made fun of me. the live show, which I was like fair.

[182] You were, you went into that bit.

[183] I'm like, I can't let you.

[184] I can't let you.

[185] But even it just, even as a, even as a discussion, no, I know.

[186] I'm not going to let you do it.

[187] It's like if I called coffee Java, like, shut the fuck out.

[188] Well, no, it's as if you were like airplane food is small.

[189] It was that style.

[190] But I totally wasn't making a joke.

[191] I was just really angry about it.

[192] But yes, completely.

[193] Anyways, go on.

[194] Anyhow.

[195] PSA.

[196] No, no, just, you know, no. You were talking about a PSA.

[197] No, I know.

[198] I was just going to say it's that kind of thing of if it feels bad, don't do it.

[199] And you know it feels bad when you, because you're never not using that in a anything but a derogatory way.

[200] And it was in a movie.

[201] The other, yesterday I was just, I was so tired, just laying there watching TV all day long.

[202] There was this terrible movie came on.

[203] And at one point in the movie, and it was from the early 2000s.

[204] This girl says it.

[205] She's just like, that's so retarded.

[206] And it was, it sounded so bad.

[207] It just people don't really.

[208] really do it anymore.

[209] At least, at least not in movies.

[210] At least not in Los Angeles.

[211] I mean, all those words, I think, you know.

[212] Well, that's the thing of certain parts of the country.

[213] It's not even known, but that's just naive.

[214] Well, and it's also the thing people fight because they're like, oh, the social justice or whatever it's like, or just don't insult people if you don't need to.

[215] Yeah.

[216] Why want, why do you want to?

[217] Slang and it's like, you don't need it.

[218] Right.

[219] You don't need it.

[220] There's so many words.

[221] It's about the exploration and use of words.

[222] Yeah.

[223] I mean, man, the world, I could say some words that are horrifying that I love saying, like, cunt.

[224] Yeah, you can say that.

[225] I know.

[226] I had a t -shirt that I bought when I lived, like, when I was in my 20s, early 20s, that had, it looked like the Coke logo, but it said cunt instead.

[227] And I wore it one day and was so self -conscious and freaked out by every, because I, of course, got 1 ,000 dirty looks and whatever for it that I never wore it again.

[228] I'm now blushing that I said that word.

[229] anything like that's how bad I am at this but over in jolly old England they say it it's like saying jerk right it's no big deal should I say twat now no you should not never say that okay I fucking hate the word twat I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually say it it's very 70s yeah speaking of England we're allowed to tease speaking of England she didn't like that what it's it called that segue segue I was going to call it sec quarter but it's not segue that we're allowed to tease that we're going across the seas.

[230] Yes, hello, London and, is it to Ireland?

[231] Ireland.

[232] They're going to ban you now that you said it like.

[233] Oh, no. That was actually really good.

[234] Oh, because you live there.

[235] Right?

[236] No, that was Scotland.

[237] Whatever.

[238] But that's where we're going, right?

[239] It's London.

[240] We have a couple shows in England.

[241] This is the tease.

[242] It's very teasing because we don't know what we're talking about.

[243] A couple shows in England, a show in Ireland.

[244] And a couple shows in Australia.

[245] Yes.

[246] And New Zealand.

[247] I mean, we get to go to New Zealand.

[248] Fuck, yeah.

[249] We're kind of just like, we don't know if we have any listeners there, but we just really want to go to New Zealand.

[250] We want to see what it looks like.

[251] Yeah.

[252] That's going to be fun.

[253] So try to, if you're in New Zealand and you like this podcast, will you get a couple of your friends to like it so that we have at least 50 people at our show?

[254] That'd be great.

[255] That's the dream.

[256] The dream is 50.

[257] And if you need to bring farm animals or children, that's fine.

[258] We just need to fill up whatever you're.

[259] local church hall is please yeah yeah yeah so we're going cross international we're we're like pit bull we're becoming international um like summertime we'll let you know yeah yeah summer or fall i think summer in the anywhere you'll hear more about it and it'll be this vague when you hear about it again yeah so don't don't expect to get tickets what else anything you got any corrections i feel like it's been so long since we podcasted because we've been doing live shows yes and it's my fault i i made the terrible mistake of i forget that this is a weekly podcast we have to do so georgia this was hilarious i went left to do um a great comedy show with julian mccullough his podcast julian loves music at a casino in an hour outside of Tulsa, we did a comedy show and his live podcast.

[260] And while I was there, Georgia texted me, hey, so tomorrow, do you want to get together and do -to -do and do -do?

[261] And I was like, I'm in Oklahoma.

[262] I'm going to be gone for the rest of the week.

[263] And I'm just permanently gone.

[264] And it was like that realization of like, oh yeah, I have to, this happens every week.

[265] I need to catch up with what the reality of my life is.

[266] Yeah.

[267] Huh.

[268] What happened.

[269] Can't just leave.

[270] No, I can fuck up.

[271] And I can have an excuse and get out of it.

[272] So I'm going to fuck out bad.

[273] Yeah, you got, well, you got a free one now.

[274] You got a freebie.

[275] Yeah.

[276] Right as I'm about to go like, what the?

[277] And then you're going to be like Tulsa.

[278] Yeah.

[279] And I'll be like, we'll have a nice handshake.

[280] Handshake.

[281] Yeah.

[282] Moving on.

[283] Sorry I broke down your house.

[284] Look, I'm sorry that I love arson.

[285] Tulsa.

[286] Okay.

[287] Do you go first to do it?

[288] I think we should start over because do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?

[289] Well, I went first last time.

[290] Did you?

[291] Mm -hmm.

[292] Oh, yeah.

[293] The live show.

[294] I mean, don't we have to.

[295] follow just how we're doing it as opposed to what airs?

[296] I don't know.

[297] I think that's what we should do.

[298] It's for us.

[299] And nobody cares.

[300] Nobody cares.

[301] And I don't think we care that much.

[302] I don't care.

[303] Okay, great.

[304] No. Wait, now you're mad?

[305] No. I'm like, why do I care?

[306] Like, why have I been well, it used to matter?

[307] Did it?

[308] Well, when we were like back to back.

[309] That's true.

[310] All right.

[311] It felt like.

[312] So I just finished listening to this book called The Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock, which is a really fucking great book.

[313] A bunch of different stories of other people and they're all, you know, intertwined somehow, which I love.

[314] And this one had a husband -wife murder team, which I know we've talked to that and neither of us kind of are that interested in it or like, that's not our first pick and it's so weird and creepy.

[315] So I'm doing one.

[316] Okay.

[317] You're going outside your comfort zone of cold cases and lesser known cases.

[318] That's your passion.

[319] Unsolved familial side.

[320] I mean, that's your jam.

[321] That's my jam.

[322] But now you're you're taking a stretch.

[323] And speaking of England again, remember how we keep speaking of England?

[324] This is the Moore's murders.

[325] Okay.

[326] So, 1961, 18 -year -old typist, Myra Hinley, meets Ian Brady.

[327] Ian was born in Glasgow in a slum on January 2nd, 1938 to a single mother.

[328] name Peggy.

[329] And when he's four months old, she fucking advertises him for adoption in a news agent's shop window.

[330] Oh, man. There's a lot of words in here that I normally wouldn't use and they're English.

[331] Like newsagent?

[332] Like newsagent and shop window.

[333] And I'm sure it's advertisement, not advertise.

[334] Peggy visits him at his foster family regularly until he becomes a teenager without letting him know that that's his mom.

[335] What?

[336] I know.

[337] But I guess his foster family is good yeah so but he still has extreme temper tantrums and they end with him banging his head on the floor which is got to be cool to see a toddler doing that um and despite despite being exceptionally bright he did poorly in school socially awkward considered a quote cissy at sports and and he's cruel to animals pretty quickly and it ranged from quote stoning dogs decapitating rabbits, and on one, no, I can't read that.

[338] It's a pet cat.

[339] He later tells Myra, his later girlfriend, that he killed his first cat when he was 10 years old.

[340] That was a brag for him.

[341] That's like first date, chit chat for him?

[342] Yeah, it gets worse.

[343] Okay.

[344] At 13, Ian had his first, was charged with housebreaking.

[345] Housebreaking.

[346] Mm -hmm.

[347] As a teenager, he developed He taught a whole house How to go to the bathroom Oh no Stupid As a teenager He develops a fascination With the writings of Nietzsche And with Nazism Red flag Yeah In 1959 He learns bookkeeping in prison And he gets a job As a stock clerk And he buys his own audio recording equipment And he transfers Hitler's speeches onto vinyl records.

[348] Oh, like as a pastime?

[349] Yeah.

[350] Huh.

[351] Yeah.

[352] Sounds fun.

[353] That's, he sounds like a real a real hoot.

[354] Yeah.

[355] Go get her.

[356] Okay.

[357] In 1961, a new secretary starts at his work named Myra Hinley.

[358] On their first date, Ian takes her to see a movie about the Nuremberg trials.

[359] So that's their first date.

[360] Jesus.

[361] Not a, not Nietzsche and Nazism.

[362] Yeah, I mean, yes, Naziism.

[363] So guys like, would you like to go to the movies with me?

[364] And you're like, sure, that's cool.

[365] And he's like kind of cute and has like 50s, like back hair.

[366] He's older.

[367] Yeah.

[368] Yeah.

[369] He's like the cool guy at the office.

[370] He's got strong opinions.

[371] Right.

[372] He's not like the boys at school who don't like Nazism.

[373] Yeah.

[374] He's got his arm up in the air a lot.

[375] Just like what you're looking for.

[376] And then you meet at the movie theater.

[377] And it's the fucking Nuremberg trials.

[378] Yeah.

[379] Super chill.

[380] Da -da -da -da -da -da -da.

[381] After they start dating, they read each other books about Nazi atrocities on their lunch break.

[382] He, Henley, she starts to alter her appearance to replicate the Aryan ideal, bleaching her hair blonde and wearing red lipstick.

[383] And so Ian's really grooming her to become subservient.

[384] And they start discussing committing crimes together, like robberies that would make them rich.

[385] But ultimately, they decide that murder was more their style.

[386] nice fun Ian outlines a plan where Myra would wear a disguise they'd abduct a child and take it to the moors where they would rape and murder and bury it there and in 1963 they took their first victim sorry so in that discussion it's hard enough to meet someone that you really get along with hey how many siblings do you have I just have one older sister do you want to murder children with me?

[387] Oh my god I've been dreaming of that since I was young my god how young Since I was a child Oh That's the What a risk That's all I'm saying Is you really I guess the Nuremberg trials Was really the test Yeah Of like is she going to go with this?

[388] Yeah If you cry When a bunch of Nazis Are being hung Hanged?

[389] Probably both Then you know that Right You know you found the one You found the one Also I have seen Myra Henley's mug shot Yeah As a blonde Yeah With that lipstick on Yeah how do you feel about it she was she was definitely a fall winter let's just say it that way she was definitely not a blonde no it's not complimentary to her face i mean i had bleached blonde hair once and it didn't look good and i knew it immediately yeah and i wouldn't have done it for a guy what what did you do it for i wouldn't have killed anyone children children children children in the moors okay uh in 1963 in july for the first victim Ian tells Meyer to drive her van around the area, local area, while he follows behind in his motorcycle, and when he sees a victim that he wants, he wants, he's going to flash his headlights at her, signaling her to stop over and offer that person a ride.

[390] So they see a young girl walking towards them, and Ian signals her to stop.

[391] She doesn't do until they pass her.

[392] And Brady's like, what the fuck?

[393] And she's like, I know that girl.

[394] I don't want to take her.

[395] So instead at 8 p .m. Ian spots 16 -year -old Pauline Reed on her way to a dance.

[396] And Pauline is a neighbor of Hinley's who's a friend of her younger sister, Maureen.

[397] So she was okay with getting into the van with Hinley, who then asked if she would mind helping to search for an expensive glove she had lost on Saddleworth Moore on a track of open, oh wait, on Saddleworth More.

[398] And then I was like, you know what?

[399] I didn't know what I'm more was aside from photos.

[400] Nice.

[401] So I thought I'd explain to people what it was.

[402] It's basically just an open, big open, uncultivated field, like picture where, you know, British people go shooting and bury bodies.

[403] Yes.

[404] It's like a rocky, hilly, open grasslandy situation.

[405] For miles and miles.

[406] Miles and miles.

[407] Yeah.

[408] Um, so she wanted her to come find her glove with her and Pauline says she's in no hurry and agrees.

[409] When they get to the more, um, Brady, arrived shortly afterwards on her motorcycle and Hinley introduces him to read as her boyfriend and that he also come to find the glove and then Hinley claims that Brady took Reed into the more while Hinley just hung out in the van after about 30 minutes Brady comes back alone and takes her back to the spot where Reed lay dying her throat had been cut with a large knife and the collar of her coat had been pushed into the wound which sounds so horrific.

[410] He tells Hinley to stay with Reed while he goes and gets a spade that he had hidden nearby on a previous visit to bury the body.

[411] So Hinley notices that Pauline's coat is undone and her clothes were in disarray guessing that she had been sexually assaulted.

[412] I mean, she claimed she wasn't there witnessing it, but let's fucking come on now.

[413] But Henley later claims that she assisted him with a sexual assault.

[414] And she turned on that story.

[415] He says it's incorrect.

[416] Oh, oh.

[417] Am I getting their names wrong?

[418] Sorry, that would be in character.

[419] Got it.

[420] I see now.

[421] So basically, she says I wasn't there.

[422] And later on, he's like, oh, no, she was there and helped me out.

[423] Got it.

[424] Okay.

[425] Okay.

[426] Then on the early evening of November 23rd, 1963, she approaches, sorry, Myra approaches a 12 -year -old boy named John Kilbride at a marked.

[427] get in Lancashire and offers him a lift home on the pretext that his parents would be worried about him for being out so late and offers him also a bottle of sherry and he as 12 years old is like hell yeah um but then they're like well we have to go make a detour to collect it and that also we need help finding a glove and a moor so he's like okay and then when they get to the moor brady takes the child and again henley says she waits in the car while uh brady sexually assaults kill bride and attempts to slit his throat with a six -inch serrated blade before fatally strangling him with a piece of string.

[428] So this guy's just a fucking animal.

[429] Animal, monster psychopath.

[430] Okay.

[431] Then in the early evening of June 16th, 1964, so this all happens within a couple of years, two years.

[432] Then in the early evening of June, 1964, 12 -year -old Keith Bennett is on his way to his grandma's house in Manchester.

[433] when Hinley lures him into her mini pickup, which Brady was sitting in the back of, asking if he'd help load some boxes.

[434] And then she said she'd drive him home afterwards.

[435] So she goes to the more again.

[436] And again.

[437] Those boxes out on the more.

[438] Yeah.

[439] You know.

[440] I have to move from the more.

[441] Hey, little 12 year old kid.

[442] I need help carrying some heavy shit.

[443] Ding, ding.

[444] The ultimate red flag.

[445] If she don't ask, adults will not ask you for help.

[446] That's right.

[447] children.

[448] Also don't walk around your goddamn town by yourself all the time.

[449] I mean.

[450] Not that ever, ever happens anymore.

[451] No, 30 minutes later, Brady comes back alone.

[452] And when Hinley supposedly asked how he had killed Bennett, he says that he had sexually assaulted him and strangled him again with a piece of string.

[453] And they buried him out on the more.

[454] On December 26th, 1964, Brady and Hinley visit a fairground in search of another victim.

[455] And they noticed 10 -year -old.

[456] old Leslie Ann Downey standing beside one of the rides.

[457] When it becomes apparent that she's alone, they approach her and deliberately drop something from their shopping cart close by her and ask her for help carrying the packages to the car.

[458] What a sweet angel?

[459] She's 10 and she's like, yes, I'll help you.

[460] She's at the carnival alone.

[461] Yes, I'm at a carnival alone and I'll help these two adults.

[462] And they're, like, this is why it's so creepy is it's a man and a woman.

[463] And in your mind, you're never, you know, like if you were hitchhiking and a couple stopped for you, a man and a woman, you'd feel safe.

[464] Yes, that's right.

[465] It's the old trick of having a woman there.

[466] It's so creepy.

[467] It's the worst.

[468] And also with little kids.

[469] It's so unfair.

[470] It's just like it goes against everything your instincts would tell you.

[471] It's a huge trick.

[472] Do you think that women, it's more horrifying for women to kill children than for men?

[473] Like, it's, I feel like, is it?

[474] I feel equally horrified in every story that I hear of people that think it's okay to kill children.

[475] north it like that need the like a compulsion to kill children there's some yeah just fucking end it because there's something so wrong with you I feel like what horrifies me more than the compulsion is the like be is being okay with it it's not even like like she might not have had a compulsion to kill children but she went along with it anyways yeah so that to me is even more depraved because it's not even this like addiction that you have she was doing it for her fucking boyfriend totally which is the I mean you've known people are like now I'm into swing dancing and you're like that's so lame but you never say anything right this is like she'll get over it just yeah exactly just like we'll wait for this one to wind out and you'll hate him in eight months or whatever but now this is like it's very extreme i bought a vespah for a boy when i was listen i'm not going to lie i mean i thought it looked cute and i liked it but i got it so that he would think i was cool yeah yeah and i hated it what'd you do proudly i can say that the first bad experience that i had with a guy that was like that was someone who's secretly born again christian and then after we got together like unveiled that really he just wanted me to say the seven magic words that would um enable me to go to heaven when i died what are those magic words i accept jesus christ as my personal savior you just said um oh well yeah i'm in i was already in yeah um you know with the catholic upbringing was there like red flat like like was there looking back when you were dating like obvious things well it was very short so we were friends first everybody that i was front we had like this small group of friends and all the girls were in love with him and then it was like he picked me oh my god and you're like i'm so special exactly and then like a week later he was like i just need you to say these words and then come to my church with me and then i don't really want to date you but i need you go to this church he'd get a gold star it was yeah seriously it's like did you get some kind of kickback for bringing me Yeah.

[476] How many did you collect?

[477] And that's when I was like, oh, this is, this is like pathetically not anything I thought it was.

[478] Yeah, but if you were like this fucking idiot, you would have been a Christian.

[479] Exactly.

[480] So, but I feel like I learned early the worst, kind of most painful way of like, oh, the ulterior motive thing, like the second it comes out where it's even now, even if it's like, do you like Star Wars?

[481] I'm like, goodbye.

[482] You fucking tricked me. How dare you?

[483] Oh my God.

[484] Like, you better, you got to, like, it all has to come out immediately or else you don't trust them.

[485] That's right.

[486] Or I just don't trust them anyway.

[487] Anyhow, we'll talk about how I'm alone later.

[488] Listen, I have all the trust issues in the world.

[489] Don't even.

[490] Anywho.

[491] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[492] Carry some packages.

[493] Then they needed to help carrying them into her house, into their house.

[494] So once inside the house, This sweet little girl is undressed, this is fucked up, undressed, gagged, and forced to pose for photos before being raped and killed.

[495] And Brady again states that it was Henley who killed Leslie Ann Downey.

[496] No, I'm sorry.

[497] Ian states that it's actually the Myra who killed Leslie Ann Downey.

[498] But of course she says it wasn't that she was running a bath for her and came back and she was dead.

[499] Which is like, fuck you.

[500] You know, here's the thing.

[501] Whatever the truth really is, it doesn't matter because at this point, you could have been sitting at home waiting for him to come back from the Moors.

[502] You are complicit, which means you might as well have been standing next to him, in my opinion.

[503] Yeah.

[504] And it's, I mean, yeah, I agree.

[505] I now want to think the worst of you if you are involved in this at all.

[506] Yeah.

[507] It's not like it gets you off the hook somehow.

[508] Right.

[509] the next morning they take her body to saddle with more and is buried in a shallow grave okay so towards the end we're getting towards the end on the evening of october 6th 1965 they go to the manchester central railway station and um ian picks up a guy a 17 year old guy named edward evans and he introduces myra as his sister they drive back home they're drinking a bottle of wine together and Ian sends Myra to fetch her brother -in -law, fetch her brother -in -law.

[510] When they get back to the house, Myra tells her brother -in -law that to wait outside, it's really weird.

[511] So basically, the brother -in -law who is Myra's sister's husband is kind of a small -time crook and the whole year Ian has kind of been cultivating this friendship and like grooming him to help him with his crimes.

[512] And it's said that David Smith is in awe of Ian.

[513] And basically they kill this guy, Ian Evans, and try to get David Smith to go along with it.

[514] Although he doesn't, he says he'll come back the next day to help bury the body.

[515] Hey, this is exciting.

[516] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[517] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster detectives.

[518] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[519] Who killed Saz?

[520] And were they really after Charles?

[521] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[522] This season murder hits close to home.

[523] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[524] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[525] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[526] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[527] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Meryl Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[528] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[529] Goodbye.

[530] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[531] Absolutely.

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[548] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[549] Goodbye.

[550] So sorry, he doesn't want to be there for the murder.

[551] He's all good with the burial, though.

[552] Well, here's the thing.

[553] So he says he was in the kitchen and didn't know what happened.

[554] But what comes out of this either way is that when David Smith gets home to my sister, he tells her what happens.

[555] And they're both like, let's go call the fucking cops.

[556] Oh, good.

[557] Yeah.

[558] Like, can you imagine calling a cops on your sister like that?

[559] But also, was she always like this beast sister?

[560] I'm sure.

[561] Right?

[562] Yeah.

[563] Because, yeah.

[564] She must have been a sociopath.

[565] To be just serial killing children.

[566] And she probably, she probably suspects something is happening between them.

[567] They're being weird and secretive.

[568] They're creepy.

[569] Nazis.

[570] A lot of Nazi behavior.

[571] Never a good, never a good sign.

[572] Never.

[573] So they call the police from a nearby phone box.

[574] I'm not going to change them.

[575] I'm just going to keep saying them.

[576] But they bring a screwdriver and a knife just in case Brady shows up.

[577] Oh, fuck.

[578] To the phone box?

[579] Yeah.

[580] To the phone box.

[581] Can you be that scared that like, The boogey man's just going to be like, hey.

[582] Yes.

[583] I mean, once you realize that that's what's happening.

[584] Yeah.

[585] So, but they don't even know that he's, like, they thought maybe he just killed this dude that they were trying to fuck.

[586] Like, they don't even know that he's a child killer yet.

[587] Jesus Christ.

[588] Then, um, so the morning, the next morning, superintendent Bob Talbot of the Cheshire police arrive at the back door.

[589] He's wearing a barrow of baker's overalls to cover his uniform.

[590] So she'll open the door.

[591] Nice.

[592] Um, and he.

[593] He says his police officer comes in and that Ian is hanging out in the living room.

[594] He says he's investigating an act of violence involving guns.

[595] And let's see, looks around the house.

[596] There's a room that's locked.

[597] He goes into the room.

[598] And when they come back, they say that they discovered a trust -up body and that he was being arrested on suspicion of murder.

[599] And he's claiming it was self -defense that they had gotten in a fight.

[600] Sorry, the trust -up body is the 17 -year -old.

[601] Yeah.

[602] Yeah.

[603] And he's saying we got in a fight and it got out of hand.

[604] So we had to keep the body in a room?

[605] Right.

[606] And we were going to bury it.

[607] Jesus God.

[608] Yeah.

[609] I thought you're going to say, they found a room full of gloves.

[610] Right.

[611] Hidden gloves that they had found.

[612] Just stacked to the ceiling.

[613] Oh, no. So Myra's not arrested with Ian, but she's questioned and she refuses to make any statement.

[614] She says it was an accident.

[615] They didn't have any evidence that she's involved.

[616] So she goes home.

[617] And then Ian's charged with an accessory.

[618] No, no, no, no. Then October 11th, my wrist charge with an accessory to the murder of the 17 -year -old.

[619] Ian Evan Edwards.

[620] And then they request a search of all Manchester's left luggage offices for any suitcases that belong to Ian Brady.

[621] And on October 15th, they find a suitcase that belongs to him and inside were nine pornographic photos taken of a young girl naked and was scarf tied around her mouth and a 13 -minute tape recording of her screaming and pleading for help.

[622] Oh, God.

[623] And Anne Downey, Leslie Ann Downey's mom, listens to the fucking tape.

[624] Can you fucking imagine?

[625] That's John Walsh action.

[626] Right.

[627] That's fucked up.

[628] What did he do?

[629] He looked at photos of bodies, right?

[630] No, he listened to an audio tape of a little kid getting murdered to find out if it was Adam.

[631] Oh my God.

[632] Adam, right?

[633] His son was Adam.

[634] And it wasn't?

[635] Oh!

[636] So he just, yeah, that's the worst thing of all time.

[637] I'm just nauseous thinking about that.

[638] It's horrible.

[639] So she said.

[640] it's definitely her 10 -year -old daughter.

[641] And then the police are searching their house and find an old school book that has John Kilbride's name in it, the 12 -year -old who went missing.

[642] They also find a large collection of photos in the house, which seemed to be taken on Saddleworth More.

[643] So they fucking go there and start searching them more.

[644] And on October 16th, police find an arm bone sticking out of the peat that the body, that was the body of Leslie and Downey.

[645] Can you imagine I'm not going to have an arm bone sticking out of the feet?

[646] It's, you're just, it's just a big, wide, open field of gray, gray low grass and brambles, I think, right?

[647] Mm -hmm.

[648] And then you're just trying to walk it, and then there's just an arm bone.

[649] And then arm bone.

[650] Oh.

[651] Another site on the opposite side, they found the badly decomposed body of John Kilbride, and then the search is called off in November because of the weather.

[652] So Brady's charged with the murder of Evan Edwards, 17 -year -old.

[653] girl John Kilbride and Leslie on Downey and Myra Hinley with the murder of Evan Edwards and Leslie on Downey, they plead not guilty to the charges that on May 6th, deliberating for two hours, the jury finds Brady guilty of all three murders and Hinley guilty of the murders of the two people.

[654] Brady sentenced to three life sentences and Hinley was given two.

[655] On February 2nd, 1987, Myra made a formal confession to the police admitting her involvement in all five murders.

[656] On July 1st, 1987, Reed's body is discovered only 100 yards from the place where Leslie and Downey had been found.

[657] Keith Bennett's body has still never been found, and his family continues to search the more.

[658] On November 15, 2002 at age 60, Myra died from bronchial pneumonia caused by heart disease, and he's still motherfucking alive.

[659] Whoa, really?

[660] I'm almost positive.

[661] Oh, sorry.

[662] That's crazy.

[663] You know, people have been asking us to do these guys for a while.

[664] I know.

[665] And I wouldn't have, if I hadn't listened to this book just because, you know.

[666] Yeah.

[667] But I did it.

[668] It's so good.

[669] I mean, they're, yeah.

[670] They're, like, one of the earliest team creeps.

[671] I feel like back then it's so, you know, you have this small town and children and people are going missing and you just don't put it together because that didn't happen back then whereas now it's like he wouldn't be like a 12 year old's gone they're a runaway yeah because that just was unthinkable and I think when you switch between boys and girls it's also like kind of a way to throw off police yes and ages it was like a 12 year old boy you know 16 year old girl like it was kind of all over the map in terms of probably how they were thinking totally and also just the fact that she that one girl was her little sister's friend is so fucking evil it's crazy it's just like yeah the the trust aspect and then also the other way of myra you're so into your boyfriend that you're you are now like his right hand man yeah which she argues is like no he had brainwashed me and i was under his command and all this shit and he groomed me to be his, which is like, maybe.

[672] Yeah, but only to an extent.

[673] I mean, yeah.

[674] That could be true, but I don't think that that's an excuse for what you did.

[675] It's, you know, here's a thing, whether it's true or not, you still did it.

[676] Totally.

[677] That's the problem.

[678] I mean, at any point, you could have run away and called the police.

[679] Yeah, because did she, aside from brainwashing, did she claim he was abusive or anything?

[680] It sounds like they were like, were stoked Nazis that are into killing.

[681] Of that, of being abusive.

[682] And I bet that If she hadn't died, she would have been let out of prison at some point.

[683] Yeah, because she was so old?

[684] Yeah.

[685] Because, yeah, because, yeah, I bet she would have.

[686] That's like the, um, uh, Paul Bernardo and, and Carla Hamal got, she got out of prison.

[687] She's out of prison now.

[688] I bet she would have gotten out.

[689] Yeah, I bet she would have.

[690] Oh, it's so creepy.

[691] It's so crazy.

[692] Um, cool.

[693] So that is the more murders.

[694] They are what last podcast on the love calls heavy hitters.

[695] Ooh.

[696] They're like famous.

[697] big famous ones that's good um mine is the opposite of that mine is i went a georgia hardstock style and what you call me did you say hardstock no stark stark stark but my mouth did a weird thing at the end which it does sometimes it's my new thing sorry i sound like i'm slurring but i have been sober for quite a time that's the power or at least i should specify oh right don't drink right there's some people who are like your sobriety means a lot to me and then I'm like well I'd stop drinking in 1997 but I am definitely on meth just keeping in mind everybody okay so when we were in Portland I did the thing that you were just talking about where we had three shows we had three murders I only learned that we had a third show or at least was reminded we had a third show like the night the day of the first day I was there Stephen texted me and he was like I said I said So I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this.

[698] And he goes, okay, and what's your third one?

[699] And I was, and I just wrote back, no, no, no. On Saturday?

[700] No, Friday.

[701] Okay.

[702] Yeah.

[703] Oh, my God.

[704] Or maybe it was Thursday.

[705] It was late for me because I was like, are you kidding me?

[706] I have to do a whole other one.

[707] Yeah.

[708] No, that's like, man, we need, you and I, I'm not saying you.

[709] I'm not saying we need to get our shit together with traveling because there has not been a fucking day when we're traveling that I am not scrambling.

[710] Yes.

[711] What is it about us?

[712] We just, I think you and I both just, we just, we just, we just, we just.

[713] We just.

[714] We just.

[715] We just.

[716] We just.

[717] We just.

[718] We just.

[719] We just.

[720] We.

[721] We.

[722] We.

[723] We.

[724] We.

[725] We.

[726] We.

[727] We.

[728] We work better when we're under pressure.

[729] That's usually, most writers are like that.

[730] And are so scared of failing and dread work so much that you put it off to the last minute.

[731] Well, because, and I, I will say this for myself, typing is not writing.

[732] So you, when you write, for things like this, it is reading and kind of processing and figuring out a way you're going to tell a story.

[733] Right.

[734] The problem is that if you do it last minute, you're, then you're just read, you're reading something you cut in pace as opposed to tell.

[735] a good story.

[736] And there's no personality in it.

[737] Exactly.

[738] And so but I'm weird.

[739] I'm like when I, sorry, whatever.

[740] No, no. When I get it, when I sit down and start working on the story that I like, I'm so happy and I'm so stoked and it's like my favorite part of the week.

[741] Yes.

[742] Like getting to that spot is so fucking hard for me. It's the bridge.

[743] It's the bridge to doing it that's the hardest.

[744] Yeah.

[745] That's when I start doing a lot of laundry.

[746] I start wiping down surfaces that are already clean.

[747] I have, I don't do anything.

[748] Oh, sit there frozen.

[749] Yes.

[750] Okay, so here's the thing.

[751] In my panic of going third murder, I start working on this fucking guy, but he killed so many people across the nation that he didn't feel like a Portland killer to me. And I was very angry at him.

[752] But luckily, he's still there for me because the second we get back, we have to record again.

[753] And so I was like, well, I'm going to go back.

[754] He supports you.

[755] That's right.

[756] Earl Leonard Nelson, the guerrilla killer.

[757] have you ever heard of him?

[758] No. All right.

[759] Does he kill gorillas?

[760] No, that's the dumbest joke.

[761] It's not worth, no, no, no. It's the dumbest name.

[762] What a bummer.

[763] Was he like, oh, man?

[764] Oh, that's so insulting.

[765] Well, I've read, so this is one of those ones.

[766] I should say, MurderPedia is one of my favorite websites.

[767] It is an aggregate site where they just, they bring you all the articles and anything written about the killer you've looked up.

[768] It's not like Wikipedia where it's like, here is this paragraph by paragraph of what happened.

[769] It's like, here's an article from 2006.

[770] Here's one from 1967.

[771] Yes, it's the best.

[772] But you also then, in reading all the articles about the one person, realize how this guy, it was like, he was called the guerrilla killer because of his features.

[773] He was called the guerrilla killer because he used to walk on his hands.

[774] He was called the guerrilla killer because it took so much strength to kill these women and he rarely used a weapon.

[775] He killed them with his hands.

[776] Whatever.

[777] Yeah.

[778] It's that kind of situation.

[779] But still, all that being said murderpedia works like Wikipedia so if you use it or like it I recommend you give them five bucks because I want it to exist always because it's such a great site for research for this.

[780] It makes my life so much easier.

[781] Me too.

[782] Okay.

[783] Earl Nelson, the gorilla killer.

[784] Not like that.

[785] When you think of crimes of the early at 20th century.

[786] Yes, Karen.

[787] Which I do all the time.

[788] You think the Lindberg baby kidnapping and murder.

[789] You think Al Capone and Elliot Ness and the mafia crimes of Prohibition.

[790] Oops.

[791] You think of Leopold and Loeb.

[792] But meanwhile, while all of those things were happening, the first known American serial sex killer was on a rampage.

[793] And nobody knows about it.

[794] A few people do.

[795] The Bay Area newspapers, because he started in the San Francisco Bay Area, called him the dark strength.

[796] because of his ability.

[797] Yeah, I know, right?

[798] Because he could slip in and out of these houses without being seen, sometimes in broad daylight.

[799] Oh, my God.

[800] And later on, he was called the guerrilla killer because he murdered women with his bare hands.

[801] But it turns out he was just plain old psychotic Earl Leonard Nelson.

[802] So Earl Nelson's mother and father both died of syphilis before he reached the age of two.

[803] Oh, that's a rough start.

[804] That's just your kickoff.

[805] that's just downhill.

[806] That's like the bottom of the hill and then you keep on going down now.

[807] Then you're down in the sewer area.

[808] You're like, I'm at the bottom.

[809] Both of my parents don't have noses.

[810] So he's sent to San Francisco to be raised by his maternal grandmother who is a devout Pentecostal.

[811] So he's got a fun and damaging childhood from a Bible thumping old lady grandmother.

[812] He was said that it's said he was already a quiet morbid kid with a violent temper but then and he was expelled from school at age seven for um being incorrigible age seven that sounds cute incorrigible what's his name again earl Earl you're incorrigible Earl um but he then at age 10 is hit by a streetcar while riding his bicycle he has a um a head injury he he He's in a coma for six days.

[813] And when he wakes up, his behavior becomes even more erratic.

[814] He begins suffering from frequent headaches, memory loss, and eventually migraines.

[815] Oh, Jesus.

[816] So now his moody and his moody, angry periods are broken up by periods of mania in which he takes to walking on his hands or lifting heavy chairs with his teeth.

[817] can you imagine we saw a fucking 11 year old lifting a fucking chair with his fucking teeth a little 11 year old where you're like Earl please put that down Earl sit down and eat your peanut butter sandwich you don't need to do that with the chair anymore this is also back when everything was made of solid wood it's a fucking oak chair he's picking it up with his teeth because he's like I got to get this out of oh god okay um so it's quoted as saying this is my favorite quote on murder pedia about him as a young man nelson was a daydreamer and a compulsive masturbator you have to pick one of those you can't be both i think they go together nicely because it's like whistling hands in pockets what is the nightmare equivalent of a daydream um a chronic masturbator we both had the answer um also 80 percent of most serial killers are chronic masturbators as children.

[818] That's one of those that's one of those Harold Schechter lookout for this red flag things.

[819] As a team he was a regular at the bars and brothels of the Barbary Coast which was like the Red Lake District of Turn of the Century, San Francisco.

[820] When he was 18 he broke into a cabin that he thought was abandoned and he was arrested and spent two years in San Quentin for it.

[821] Can you imagine me a teenager in San Quentin?

[822] I bet it wasn't that cool.

[823] So he enlisted in the Navy.

[824] He gets kicked out for behaving oddly and erratically.

[825] He actually was, he was because it was World War I, he enlisted in and got kicked out of the military four times.

[826] Holy shit.

[827] And he just kept signing up under a different name and they would take him because it was like active duty.

[828] They needed people.

[829] And you're like, you're too crazy to go to the front lines.

[830] Yeah.

[831] We're getting our asses kicked over like over there and you still can't come.

[832] Yeah.

[833] And just be a bullet catcher.

[834] So he, this, the last time he was in, he was in the Navy.

[835] And he got kicked out because he refused to do anything but lie on his caught and rant about the great beast of Revelation.

[836] So he was just a crazy Bible thumper.

[837] Wow.

[838] And he ends up, oh, I said, he refused to do anything but lion is caught and rant about the great beast of Revelation, aka dreamstervating.

[839] Dreamster baiting.

[840] That's what it is.

[841] That's what it is.

[842] So they commit him to Napa State Hospital, which was a very famous mental insane asylum in Northern California.

[843] It was there that it was discovered.

[844] He had both gonorrhea and syphilis.

[845] Oh, my fucking God.

[846] Yeah.

[847] Dude, I mean, this isn't, your brain has no chance at this point.

[848] Getting hit by a fucking car.

[849] You probably got more born with syphilis.

[850] Yeah.

[851] These things eat your brain.

[852] His brain was just never not inflamed.

[853] I almost feel bad for this guy until I probably find out what he does.

[854] Yeah, you won't feel bad later.

[855] But you can definitely feel bad for 10 -year -old girl because he did not have it good.

[856] There was a reason he was picking up chairs with his teeth.

[857] So he managed to escape three times from Napa State Hospital before the staff just stopped trying to find him, which is the opposite of the three strikes law.

[858] So he goes back After the third time he escapes He goes back Lives with his aunt again in San Francisco His aunt gets him a job As a janitor at St. Mary's Hospital St. Mary's Hospital is where my aunt Mary works Full circle Oh my God, he's your brother The end Okay, so there at St. Mary's Hospital He meets and Mary's 58 -year -old spinster Mary Martin He's 24 Ooh, Mary.

[859] Uh -huh She's very shy and reclusive is and um he and obviously an old maid here comes earl 58 euros old no she's an old maid well i mean 58 sorry as a 47 year old i'm gonna say yeah maybe she's single as but maybe she's not an old main you know what i mean i don't know um well also this was back when you were supposed to get married when you were 14 right and have six kids by the time you were 20 right so she was way out of the window of possibility just kind of standing around st mary's hospital staring out the window pulling her sweater across her waiting for a 24 year old psychopath to save her and then he shows and then it comes there he is earl um so he turns out she's very shy and reclusive he makes her life a living hell he is insanely jealous he refuses to bathe he has terrible manners and an insatiable sex drive what was their date they're like dating life like the two of them i think they whatever the equivalent of the trials of nuremberg they went to see that every fucking weekend right right also earl um has terrible migraine attacks that sometimes leave him unable to walk and one time during one of those attacks he falls from a ladder at work and hits his head fucking fuck come on double head trauma they don't cancel each other out no now he's really nice that would be amazing he not got knocked back into place and um Oh, no. And he just started working for Habitat for Humanity.

[860] Just, he was like the chillest bro at the beach after that.

[861] And that's the end of the story.

[862] Oh, my God.

[863] And then she went on to kill people.

[864] Um, right?

[865] Oh, I just really quickly have to say total sidebar, but talking about chill bros at the beach.

[866] So Riz Ahmed, of course, is on my DVR recording.

[867] And so I finally brought myself to watch the episode of girls that he's in.

[868] Did you watch it?

[869] I've, I'm, I love the show.

[870] I'm caught up.

[871] Okay.

[872] He's in two episodes.

[873] Yes.

[874] Him and Lena Dunham's character getting together.

[875] I'm just, I all have to say is I'm really mad.

[876] Why?

[877] I'm really fucking, first of all, why?

[878] Like, she is.

[879] Because she wanted to make out, because Lena Dunham wanted to fucking make out with Rizal Meg.

[880] Yeah, she made it happen.

[881] She was just like a nonstop power eye contact.

[882] And maybe less attracted to him because I don't like scrawny guys.

[883] Huh.

[884] And he's scrawny.

[885] It made me love him 10 times more than I already did because I was like, it was like, as if that was not a TV show.

[886] And I was like, why would you pick her?

[887] Why didn't you pick me?

[888] I wasn't at that beach or that beach party.

[889] I didn't see you rapping.

[890] I wasn't there to make it happen.

[891] And if I were there, I would have never been anywhere near you.

[892] Yeah.

[893] Not have talked to you.

[894] You wouldn't have had the like balls to be like, that guy's going to want to fuck me. I'm going to go talk to him.

[895] That's right.

[896] I wouldn't know.

[897] Well, that's what I love.

[898] I mean, fuck, I love that about her.

[899] I do too.

[900] It's just there was never even a question about him wanting to fuck her.

[901] I know.

[902] Which I love.

[903] It's just like, this is happening.

[904] I'm making it happen.

[905] This is the guy that's going to fuck me now.

[906] Which actually does happen often.

[907] Yeah.

[908] But the thing of, I agree with all of that.

[909] But I was just like, oh, he's too scrawny.

[910] Fuck you.

[911] Now I'm mad at you and her.

[912] All right.

[913] I should have never gone into that area.

[914] But it hurt me deeply.

[915] And I was surprised because I was like, what?

[916] I don't give a shit.

[917] And I knew what the plot was.

[918] He was such a stupid stoner.

[919] It was so great.

[920] I know, but I love that.

[921] Yeah.

[922] Anyway.

[923] Okay, listen.

[924] Here's what I'm telling you.

[925] He fucking falls off a ladder because of a migraine, double down head trauma.

[926] He leaves the hospital after two days because he won't stay there anymore.

[927] Head wrapped in bandages.

[928] So he's just running around on the street like a lunatic with a head wound.

[929] And like fucking Frankenstein.

[930] Yes.

[931] And he goes back home now he's more paranoid and violent with his wife.

[932] She's like, come my fuck.

[933] I'll on.

[934] Yeah.

[935] She's like, this was already weird.

[936] I already doubted it, but I did it anyway.

[937] Now I can't talk to my own brother without you freaking out.

[938] Like, he would literally get jealous if she talked to her brother.

[939] And she's 60.

[940] So one of the articles I read said that she had a nervous breakdown because of him, but just one.

[941] Either way, she divorces him within six months of them being married.

[942] And although then I wrote, although I like that he was way into older ladies, it gives me hope.

[943] Oh, my God, Karen.

[944] Sometimes I have fun as I write these things.

[945] All right.

[946] You're going to get a sweet young thing, like Rismid.

[947] That's right.

[948] But not in his 20s, doesn't pick shit up with his teeth.

[949] No. I thought you were trying to, yeah, definitely a stoner.

[950] Yes.

[951] Someone chill with eyes that take up two -thirds of his head.

[952] Anyhow.

[953] In 1921, he turns from burglary to sex crimes.

[954] he attempts to molest 12 -year -old Mary Nelson after seeing her playing in her basement and then deciding to pose as the gas man so he sees a little girl playing in a basement knocks on the door says he's from the gas company her older brother who's like in his early 20s I think lets him in he goes straight down to the basement and immediately attacks her she fights him off screaming the brother hears runs downstairs goes to fight him he like scorns past the brother runs outside The brother follows him, runs after.

[955] They fight in the street.

[956] And then Earl punches this kid in the head and gets away.

[957] Oh, no. Head injury.

[958] New head injury.

[959] Two hours later, Earl has picked up riding a trolley car.

[960] He's just like around.

[961] He's in the neighborhood.

[962] He's like, let's go some sightseeing.

[963] Yeah.

[964] He's like, where's that super crooked street I've heard so much about?

[965] That night in jail, he plucks out all of his eyebrows with his fingernails.

[966] Yes.

[967] So he's already a creep.

[968] Now he has no eyebrows.

[969] He's recommitted back to Napa State Hospital and stays there for four years.

[970] So then he's released.

[971] And then I wrote, what do you think happens next?

[972] A, he gets a job as an accountant, lives a productive life and molestation -free light.

[973] B, he dreams dervates his way into an early grave or C, the killings begin.

[974] I'm going to go with C. Yeah.

[975] The killings begin in 1920.

[976] So on February 20th, 60 -year -old Clara Newman answers the front door to a man inquiring about her rooms to let sign in her front window.

[977] The man tells her his name is Virgil Wilson.

[978] He's carrying a worn Bible and he's very polite.

[979] Clara brings him up to the room she's renting.

[980] And there he turns from kindly Bible lover to pure animal and strangles her to death.

[981] He rapes her dead body, leaves her dress bunched up around her waist and leaves.

[982] on his way out, Clara's nephew sees the man in the front hall.

[983] He asks what the man is doing there and the man says, tell your aunt, I want to rent the room, I'll be back in an hour.

[984] So the nephew goes back to his books and they don't discover the body in the attic room until that night.

[985] Oh, my God.

[986] Two weeks later, he kills Laura Beale in San Jose in the exact same way.

[987] She is a landlady that's renting out a room.

[988] He comes holding a Bible.

[989] It seems so easy.

[990] Yes, and being like, I'm interested in your room.

[991] This time, the difference is he uses a belt to strangle her to death.

[992] And she's found in the rental room naked from the waist down.

[993] So then three months pass and then Earl's cross -country killing spree starts.

[994] So he basically does the exact same thing over and over.

[995] Like he'll kill a woman who's letting a room.

[996] and then he like either stays in the city and does it again or he jumps on a train and does it in a different city.

[997] So he does it everywhere.

[998] So on June 10th, he kills Lillian St. Mary, who is 63 years old in San Francisco.

[999] On June 24th, he kills Anna Russell, who's 58 in Santa Barbara.

[1000] Then he goes back up to Oakland and he kills Mary Nesbit on August 16th, on October 19th, 1926.

[1001] This is all 1926.

[1002] He kills Beatrice Withers in Portland.

[1003] She's only 35.

[1004] And her body was stuffed into a trunk.

[1005] Then the next day, he kills Virginia Grant, who's 59 in Portland.

[1006] Her body is stuffed behind the furnace in her basement.

[1007] On October 21st, the day after that, in Portland, he kills a mabel fluke.

[1008] And she's hidden in the attic in the crawl space in the attic.

[1009] What'd you say?

[1010] Jesus.

[1011] Oh, oh.

[1012] Sorry.

[1013] I thought you're asking a question.

[1014] on November 15th, he kills Blanche Myers, who's 48 years old in Oregon City, November 18th, Willamina Edmonds, 56 back down in San Francisco, then back up in Seattle.

[1015] On November 24th, he kills Flores Monks.

[1016] And then the next day, oh, no, sorry, a month later, he kills Elizabeth Beard in Council Bluffs.

[1017] So he's clearly hopped a train.

[1018] Then he's in, Kansas City, on, uh, later in December, but somewhere between December 23rd and 28th, he kills Bonnie Pace in Kansas City.

[1019] Jesus fucking Christ.

[1020] Yep.

[1021] On, on, on December 28th, he, in Kansas City, he kills 28 -year -old Germania Harpin and her eight -month -old baby.

[1022] Uh -huh.

[1023] He's on a serious fucking spree.

[1024] Then he goes quiet for months and then on April 27th of 1927 in Philadelphia, which is where he was from originally, where his parents, the syphiletic super couple, are there from Philadelphia, he goes back there and kills Mary McConnell.

[1025] She's 60 years old.

[1026] Then he gets somehow to Buffalo.

[1027] And on May 30th, he kills Jenny Randolph, who's 35.

[1028] Then he goes to Detroit.

[1029] Jesus.

[1030] And on June 1st, 1927, he kills Minnie May. and a lodger in that same house, Mrs. Antwerp.

[1031] They don't know how old she is, but she sounds old to me. And two days later, in Chicago, he kills Mary siestaima, siesta, sorry, who's 27 years old.

[1032] So by this time, he knows the cops are after him.

[1033] Oh, they are?

[1034] He's, I mean, he's just on, like, a killing spree.

[1035] And they know it's one dude doing all of this.

[1036] Yes.

[1037] And the people, because these are a lot.

[1038] of these are boarding houses so there's other eyewitnesses in the boarding house not just the lady who shows him the room sure so he crosses the border up into winnipeg to get away from the cops um and he rents a room there on june 8th my birthday what my birthday oh i did that at the live show too i can't help it's the best how can you not uh he actually was born it i completely relate because Earl was born on May 12th, and I was born on May 11th.

[1039] So I was like, oh, day after.

[1040] But then it's him.

[1041] All right.

[1042] So he crosses the border into Winnipeg, rents a room, and on June 8th, he strangles 14 -year -old Lola Cowan, who is selling paper flowers door to door to help her very impoverished family.

[1043] He stuffs her body under the bed, leaves that boarding house, and the next day, He's wandering around the same neighborhood in Winnipeg and he sees Emily Patterson, who's 35, cleaning her house and he somehow gets himself inside her house.

[1044] He strangles her to death, rapes and mutilates her dead body, and stuffs her under the bed and leaves without being seen.

[1045] So she's reported missing by her husband.

[1046] and that night when her husband goes to go to sleep he kneels down next to the bed to pray for strength and to pray to find his wife and when he goes to stand up his leg catches the bed spread and he looks down and sees his wife's wool sweater sticking out from underneath the bed so he reaches underneath it and touches the dead body of his dead mutilated wife Oh, my God.

[1047] If I didn't say dead so many times, that would have been a really well -told kind of build -up.

[1048] Well, that's this podcast.

[1049] I mean, that is not who we really are deep down.

[1050] Dead, dead, dead.

[1051] So by the time Mr. Patterson calls the police and says that he has found his wife, the body of Lola Cowan has also been found.

[1052] And the same morning of Mrs. Patterson's murder, Earl Lerl.

[1053] left the house, went down, sold his clothes at a second -hand store, took the money that he got for those clothes, and goes down to a barber to get a shave.

[1054] And when he sat in the chair, the barber had noticed that Earl had blood in his hair.

[1055] So when the story of these murders comes out, the barber goes to the police and tells the story, gives the description, as does all of the people that live in the boarding house where Lola Cowan's body was found because there's all kinds of people that saw that guy who stayed in that room.

[1056] Sure.

[1057] So at this point, between the barber's description, the eyewitness accounts from the other boarding house, Earl Nelson's likeness is distributed across every province and border town in Canada, and there's a $1 ,500 reward posted for his capture.

[1058] And Earl is arrested hopping onto a train.

[1059] So here's the thing.

[1060] He is a master escape artist.

[1061] So once again, he escapes from jail.

[1062] Yes, he can pick any lock.

[1063] So they had taken his shoes, socks, and belt when they put him into the jail cell.

[1064] So he escapes with none of those things.

[1065] And that night, he finds a barn.

[1066] He hides in the barn.

[1067] And in this barn, he finds an old moth -eaten sweater and a pair of ice skates.

[1068] So he pulls the blades off the ice gates and makes the ice skates into shoes.

[1069] Oh, my God.

[1070] Because he doesn't have any shoes.

[1071] you love it I fucking love it so because he's crazy so then he goes the next morning he leaves that barn and just goes fucking walking out and he ends up bubbling a cigarette from a guy and chatting with him for a while because he doesn't think he can get caught because he's now been murdering women for a fucking year straight and he's standing around smoking and chatting in ice skate shoes and the guy's like what up crazy and calls the cops Holy shh.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] Can you just, what if someone you knew just showed up in ice skate shoes to a party?

[1074] Also, where it was like, he pulls the blades out.

[1075] So was he walking on, still was there like that one rim down at the bottom?

[1076] And there were no, there's no way they were his size.

[1077] Yes.

[1078] Like what are the chances of finding like a size 10 fucking ice skating shoes?

[1079] His perfect ice skate shoes.

[1080] No. Just imagine.

[1081] I just want to picture if I'm clomping over.

[1082] He's just, he's, he's, he's, he's, he.

[1083] He's like, clumpy, he's walking down a gravel road and ice gate shoes.

[1084] Perfect.

[1085] Earl, you fucking idiot.

[1086] All right.

[1087] Become an accountant, you dumbass.

[1088] Dumbass.

[1089] So, um, so that, this smoking guy, of course, alerts the authorities.

[1090] Earl's recaptured.

[1091] He's taken back into custody.

[1092] He's tried, uh, he's after a less than an hour of deliberation convicted of Emily Patterson and Lola Cowan's murders.

[1093] And he's sentenced to hang in Winnipeg on January 13th.

[1094] 1928.

[1095] One report said he struggled for 11 minutes before he died with that hanging.

[1096] But then another said he died instantaneously and then made a very specific note of saying how why people would take too long to die.

[1097] If the rope was too short, it wouldn't.

[1098] I think they would do that a lot for people they wanted to suffer.

[1099] Really?

[1100] Because what you want to happen when you hang someone is for their neck to break.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] But if you, it's too short, right?

[1103] And they fall, their neck.

[1104] Their neck doesn't break they just slowly fucking choke to death yeah sounds horrifying yeah either way or if it's too long it's they're like the snap doesn't happen right right right right right right either you know if something happens then this happens and if another and it sucks there's a choice you can make as the rope length decider yeah you're not new it's not your first day yeah and this guy by the time they catch him and know who he is and what his uh history is the dark strangler guerrilla killer is they're like i don't know maybe make that thing seven feet long do you know they did that in nuremberg when they uh killed a bunch of the ex nazis they made they gave them the long rope special gave some of them they purposely gave some you know 15 minutes of choking to death yeah i mean i watch nuremberg movies too and on your vince's first date on our first date i knew it i knew you two were up to no good Earl is suspected of more murders that didn't fit the guerrilla killer dark strangler M .O. because of those two cooling off period.

[1105] So after his first two murders, there were three months before that spree started.

[1106] And they think that he killed other women, just not either not old or not landladys or not strangled.

[1107] I'm dying to know what he looks like, what his personality was like.

[1108] He must have been stupid because he hit his head a couple times, right?

[1109] I mean, I don't, they just said he was scary.

[1110] His family members were scared of him and that, that aunt that he would go back and live with, they were like, they said he was like a big kid.

[1111] And he was a big violent kid, so he kind of couldn't be reasoned with.

[1112] So they just did whatever he wanted and hoped he would leave.

[1113] Jesus.

[1114] Was what the aunt said.

[1115] So the family was just totally scared of him.

[1116] So apparently he was just super violent and weird as fuck.

[1117] Aggressive.

[1118] And there was actually a really good story of the aunt.

[1119] that time when he got out of jail escaped from Napa State Mental Hospital he showed up at her window one night as it was raining and she said he turned she turned around and saw she said his eyes were black and he had a really weird hat on and he was just staring through the window in the rain and it scared the living shit out of her so she let him in but she basically convinced him you better leave because they're going to come here first to look for you and she just got him to leave as soon as possible.

[1120] Can you imagine, like, it scared her, and then even when she realized she knew who it was, she was still scared out of her fucking mind.

[1121] It's like, oh, okay, it's just you.

[1122] Yeah, no. It's like, oh, fuck, it's you.

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] Oh, my God.

[1125] Okay.

[1126] Yeah, so he could possibly, I think they said between 20 and 26 confirmed victims, but they think there could be many more because he was also all across the nation and up into Canada and Harold Schechter who's written so many great true crime books there's a book he wrote called Beastiel where he talks about Earl Leonard Nelson the gorilla killer amazing I've never fucking heard of that me either and that's huge the first sexual serial killer yeah I mean in America right okay is just because I thought the same thing where there was that guy Peter Curtin in Germany there was a couple other ones, but this guy was like the first one they think they know of in America.

[1127] That's a lot of fucking people.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] Dude.

[1130] A lot of old ladies just trying to rent a room.

[1131] Oh, man. Well, thank you.

[1132] No, thank you.

[1133] Should we say a thing we like?

[1134] Yeah, let me think if I have anything.

[1135] Didn't you say you were watching a show you really like?

[1136] Yeah, but I can't find the name of it.

[1137] Was it fiction or non -fiction?

[1138] It was nonfiction.

[1139] It was like different kind of deaths.

[1140] It's really cool, but I can't remember.

[1141] I'll find out for next week.

[1142] Okay.

[1143] What about you?

[1144] You say something and I'll think of something.

[1145] Oh, okay.

[1146] Fuck.

[1147] Well, I'll say this.

[1148] When we were in Portland, I got to hang out with my friend Stacy, who you met, and who was the greatest, she runs a place called Curious Comedy Theater in Portland.

[1149] If you live there, they have.

[1150] have improv shows there.

[1151] They have stand -up shows there.

[1152] Lots of cool stand -ups perform there.

[1153] I think Ron Lynch is going to be there next.

[1154] She books really awesome people and we just had a really great time hanging out and it made my visit in Portland.

[1155] It's just nice to have friends and that and Stacey and my friend Jason Lopez who I have known since I was 20.

[1156] We used to work at the Gap together.

[1157] We used to get drunk in the Castro together.

[1158] He's one of my oldest friends and he was there both nights, actually.

[1159] I love that.

[1160] Well, I can't, okay.

[1161] Well, I guess mine is similar in that, like, this is the first time Vince came with me on a weekend tour, and it was just like, I just meant so much to me to have him there and have his support and just, like, hang out with him.

[1162] And fuck, man, I'm so, I am just blown away by him.

[1163] And I just want him to come with us all the time.

[1164] He has to come with us all the time.

[1165] It was so great.

[1166] And I just love having him around.

[1167] I do too.

[1168] My husband, I probably should, but that, yeah, it was a really awesome experience having him there and you know how much fucking traveling anxiety I have and how much I hate leaving the house and how scared I get and how worried I get.

[1169] And having him there just kind of alleviated all of it except missing the cats, but it alleviated all of it and it made it such a fun time for me instead of like an anxious, scary time.

[1170] Yeah, you were free to kind of just have your fun and do it instead of, I think, I mean, it's not like you seemed insanely different than any other time, but it is nice to know that then you don't have all those worries on your shoulders.

[1171] You can just kind of have fun.

[1172] Yeah, it was nice.

[1173] I mean, yes, I'm codependent, but it works for me. Lots of people are.

[1174] Also, that's not codependent.

[1175] You just have a great husband that you're grateful for.

[1176] My therapist says it's not codependency.

[1177] It's interdependency.

[1178] And if it works for you, it's fine.

[1179] I like interdependency.

[1180] Isn't that nice?

[1181] I want a slice of interdependency.

[1182] Interdependency is good.

[1183] It's lovely.

[1184] And he's, I mean, he's the best.

[1185] He really is.

[1186] He's, I feel similar to him that you do.

[1187] I hope not.

[1188] I might as well tell you now.

[1189] You guys get along so well.

[1190] It's cool to go in the other room and to get ready and hear you guys cracking up.

[1191] Yes.

[1192] I dig it.

[1193] Well, also he just knows his shit too.

[1194] He has so much experience in performing.

[1195] He has experience in merch sales.

[1196] He has experience in everything.

[1197] He does.

[1198] He's smart.

[1199] Vince, he's the um he's got a podcast called we watch wrestling yeah get into it if you watch wrestling or want to um yay yay that's happy that's a good one other people yay making us happy yeah we like people and and thank you to everyone who came to those port shows we had such a great time we get so many good presents thank you for coming to say hi after couldn't we say that someone made uh catnip toys of fucking a bunch of serial killers yes And they're incredible when we put them on our Instagram, and I'm not giving them to the cats because they're just so fucking cool.

[1200] Yeah, those are keepers.

[1201] Yeah, they're incredible.

[1202] I think that it's not the same person, but I also got a couple of dog toys that were, they were slip little mini slippers, a neon green mini slipper and a hot pink, and George and Frank have already destroyed both of them.

[1203] They were very excited to get them.

[1204] I love it.

[1205] I am.

[1206] Oh, you guys are the greatest.

[1207] Yes, thank you so much.

[1208] Thank you so much for listening and everything and you're the best.

[1209] And stay sexy.

[1210] And don't get murdered.

[1211] Bye.