Danny McBride

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Emmy nominated Monica Padman.

[3] I'm here.

[4] And we're about to talk to someone.

[5] I don't even know if he's ever been nominated for an Emmy, but most certainly he's going to get nominated for an Emmy for his new show.

[6] He should, yeah.

[7] You've already heard us talk about it, the righteous gemstones.

[8] We're so pumped about it.

[9] It's the funniest show I've seen in years.

[10] So good.

[11] Tasty.

[12] You've probably guessed it already.

[13] Our guest is Daniel McBride, aka Danny McBride.

[14] Certainly falling in love with him and eastbound and down vice principles pineapple express alien covenant for a dramatic turn in the footfist's way one of the best independent movies i've ever seen look we're just stone cold obsessed with danny that's right and what a guy i gotta say what i was intimidated by him you were i was i really wanted him to like me there's an old old trope of mine he was so nice though pretty much the nicest person that's come through here oh you know what i'm going to do i'm going to put him this this is new info because I haven't I haven't put anyone on the soul spectrum in a while Danny's absolutely a nine on the soul spectrum oh wow yeah you know so he's in the realm of the bill Murray's and Richard Pryors on the soul spectrum I get that I mean how comfortable was he in his skin he was looked luxurious okay enough of our opinion let's let you hear Danny McBride Wonderie plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[15] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[16] He's an object to.

[17] Wabi Wob.

[18] ABR.

[19] Always be recording.

[20] Oh, beautiful.

[21] Danny.

[22] First of all, it's weird that I've seen the thing that someone's promoting for whatever reason, but I watched your thing last night, and it's fucking phenomenal.

[23] I've been talking all day about it.

[24] I'm making us all jealous that we haven't seen it yet.

[25] The Righteous Gemstone, I watched episodes one and two last night, and it is flawless.

[26] It's my favorite thing you've done.

[27] It's so well directed.

[28] It's crazy.

[29] We're going to get into all that.

[30] But I think there's a through line for why you would even make that show in your whole life story.

[31] So normally I would save your project for the end of the thing, but I feel like it's going to be very relevant for it.

[32] Yes.

[33] So this show, you wrote it and directed it.

[34] It's about a mega church.

[35] I mean, it is gorgeous.

[36] The fucking helicopter shots with the 3 AMGs and following them on the fucking roads and just every the sets.

[37] It's beautiful.

[38] In a nutshell, it's a big megachurch.

[39] Your dad, John Goodman, is the patriarch.

[40] That's the head of the deal.

[41] Yep.

[42] Head honcho.

[43] And then you and your brother are kind of, I guess, vine for who's second.

[44] The story of the gemstones is basically, you know, John Goodman's character, Eli, and then Amy Lee, who you will meet deeper in the series.

[45] series, who is played by Jennifer Nettles, a country music singer.

[46] And, yeah, they were this, like, dynamic Christian televangelist duo.

[47] She's passed on, and dad's kind of lost.

[48] He's, like, looking to his children to maybe fill the void, but it's all in vain because the children have to have no, do not have the tools to step up into the position.

[49] Yeah, the apples fell real, real far from that tree.

[50] Who plays the other sibling?

[51] Edie Patterson, who was in vice principal, she plays Judy.

[52] And I instantly just loved, love working with her on vice principal.

[53] The first day she came on the set, she just had me cracking up.

[54] And her role was only supposed to be something pretty small.

[55] And I ended up kind of adjusting the whole show a little bit of incorporating her into the show more.

[56] And she's just awesome.

[57] She's so funny.

[58] And when Vice Principles was over, I wanted to try to do something else with her.

[59] you know a lot of times I feel like when you get comedic men and women in something together it's always like a romantic thing it's like and it just felt like that was boring so even after vice principals we're like we need to be like siblings in something so we can beat the shit out of each other and it's not about whether we're going to like be in love with each other or not you know we can just go toe to toe and so we had that idea and then as I started kind of developing this it's sort of like made sense to fit her in that way and then your brother is is adam divine Adam Devine, who's really fantastic.

[60] I'm trying to think of the word he jumbles, and I was so curious.

[61] Wobbles.

[62] Yes.

[63] I was wondering if that was like an accident that you kept in.

[64] I still don't know.

[65] It's the only time he did it, but I had to keep it in.

[66] Kristen and I watched it like four times in a row.

[67] He kept hitting 10 seconds.

[68] Wobbles.

[69] Yeah.

[70] He's trying to say marbles.

[71] But it's like he tries to his mind in there as well or something.

[72] It's hysterical, but it's also, it has the great.

[73] gravity of succession.

[74] Do you watch Succession?

[75] I don't watch it, but I need to because they're going to be our lead -in.

[76] Oh, my God.

[77] Oh, that'll be perfect.

[78] It's Monica and I's favorite show, I think.

[79] Love it.

[80] It's up there.

[81] We're looking so forward to it coming back.

[82] But it definitely has a succession vibe.

[83] That's awesome.

[84] All these shitty children kind of, you know, trying to get it.

[85] I love it.

[86] Yeah.

[87] That's where we're at in the world, right?

[88] Just so everyone's shitty and we have to figure out how not to be shitty.

[89] Yes.

[90] So when I look at your three shows that you've created, eastbound and down and then vice principals and then now this to me the thing that i'm attracted to is it seems like you are just inherently interested in exposing kind of like people that are on a pedestal or celebrated or loved and then just kind of showing that they two are pieces of shit or scumbas it's like maybe an inherent interest in just maybe hypocrisy would you say that you're drawn to that i definitely am and i i'm drawn to things where like people use their job to kind of define who they are and they think that there's certain values that obviously they would have if they have this job and then seeing that, no, they don't have any of these values.

[91] And, you know, that was kind of the riff on Eastbound was sort of the idea that you've seen that story before of like small town boy goes off to the big city, makes it big and comes back a hero.

[92] And in our version, it's like, no, he comes back a villain.

[93] He's like, worse, this experience fucked him up.

[94] And even with Vice Princiles is the same kind of thing as you've seen this kind of classic story of a buddy comedy where like two unlikely people join together to go like do something together and they bond and become better people and so we wanted to kind of just take that and just make them do something totally malicious and evil and you're just like whoa I don't know if I want these guys to like achieve what they're trying to do yeah eastbound and down I felt like I was going to like it immediately because it's a reference to smoking the bandit right eastbound and down had it up and trucking yep did you love smoking the band as a kid I did I love smoking the band and then when we were making that show I was like, you know, Kenny Powers, he basically thinks that he's Burt Reynolds, like, in a Burt Reynolds movie.

[95] Like, so all the way he approaches women, people around him, he thinks he's Burt Reynolds.

[96] And so when I was talking to Adam McKay, who was one of the executive producers on him, we were trying to come up with what the name of the show was going to be.

[97] And I was like, it needs to feel like, this is a Burt Reynolds movie.

[98] Like he'd be like, he's spouting down or something.

[99] And he was just like, that should be what it is.

[100] I'm like, well, can it be that?

[101] Are we allowed to call it lyrics from a song from another movie?

[102] Do we got to get Jerry Reed on the phone and see what's happening with him?

[103] Well, you were born in Georgia, but you moved to Virginia.

[104] What age you moved to Virginia?

[105] I kind of bounced around.

[106] I was born in Georgia, and then I lived in California for a real little bit of time.

[107] My dad was a guard in the prison in Lompoc there, and so we lived on the prison reservation there for, I guess, about three years.

[108] And then he got transferred to the Federal Bureau of Prison, so we moved to D .C., and then that's what brought me to Virginia, and then I grew up in Virginia then.

[109] Okay.

[110] And you're saying your dad, is it your dad or your stepdad?

[111] That's my dad.

[112] Mom and dad got divorced, though?

[113] They got divorced when I was in about sixth grade.

[114] Sixth grade.

[115] What's dad's demeanor when he comes home from a day at Longpoke?

[116] Yeah, I can barely remember.

[117] I mean, like, I have such small memories of living on that prison reservation.

[118] What's crazy is that I went to a wedding there near Lompoke a few years ago.

[119] And I was kind of like, I was like talking to my wife.

[120] I was like, I wonder if I could find where this house was.

[121] And I used like Google Earth and was just trying to like, because I remember.

[122] my walk from the bus stop and so I like found where the bus stop was and then started kind of like trying to use my mind to go back and I ended up finding the exact house and all these houses look the same on the prison reservation where they were built like some post World War II yeah exactly and they're all just kind of the same I mean my only real like strong memory from there is I remember like specifically one night sleeping and then an air horn like an air siren going off there had been a prison break that like someone has escaped and like my dad is getting up, loading a fucking gun, and we are all, like, being put into the master bedroom and lock the door and I, like, look out the window, and he just, like, jumps into a pickup truck with a bunch of my friends' dads who are all armed, just going off to go find the prisoner.

[123] Going on a human hunt.

[124] Wow.

[125] Were you just excited by it, or were you scared?

[126] Or were you like, oh, something great is happening?

[127] I don't think I realized, like, what all it really was until we kind of got out of there.

[128] And then I kind of looked back on it.

[129] I was like, that's crazy.

[130] That was what his job was.

[131] that we were living there.

[132] Yeah, raising children in the shadow of a prison.

[133] Like, you moved across the country, I'm assuming half for your kids, right?

[134] Like, I don't want to give them kind of a nice, 100 % real childhood.

[135] And the last place you go is like, fuck.

[136] It's in the shadow of a state bed.

[137] Yeah, Rikers Island and a houseboat just moored right up.

[138] But to bring folks up to speed about my personal journey with you is that you were in Footfisway.

[139] I loved it.

[140] I thought it was the greatest thing ever.

[141] And then you and I were up for the same movement.

[142] movie.

[143] Land of the Lost.

[144] Oh, were we really?

[145] That's insane.

[146] We were up for that movie and I had met with the director and it was one of those rare ones where I'm like, I think I'm getting this.

[147] Like this guy and I really see eye to eye and then you got it and I did not.

[148] You're welcome by the way.

[149] I took that for it for you.

[150] Well, it is funny if you live long enough, all the stuff you had to have and what you got and how it shook out is all never what you think.

[151] But I transitioned from a fan to just jealous of you.

[152] And then I saw you on Sam Jones off camera.

[153] And it's one of my favorite interviews I've ever watched in my life.

[154] And then I got your email from somebody and I sent you an email just kind of owning, you didn't need to know this, but I needed to say this.

[155] Like I went from being a huge fan to being very jealous of you.

[156] And then discovering I love you and I should have always loved you.

[157] And I just wanted to own it.

[158] And it came at a time this interview and what was really crystal clear about you in that interview was you seemingly at least you might be a good bullshit or are doing this for the right reason the reason I would hope to always be doing these things which is like you love hanging out with your friends and being creative and you've prioritized that and I was so blown away by it and I was feeling low career wise and I just found it incredibly inspirational all that to say in that interview when I was watching you from the outside I was always like is he a redneck or is he someone that grew up with rednecks and has the same love and obsession with them than I did.

[159] Growing up, if I would have thought, like, oh, you're going to make a career for yourself by, like, playing a character with a mullet, it would have been, like, the last thing I would have ever imagined.

[160] But it really did just kind of come from, you know, Jody Hill, David Green, myself.

[161] We all grew up in Southern towns, and we're all guys who, like, went off to art school, you know?

[162] Right, right.

[163] And so we were always sort of spectators in Southern culture and never really feeling like we were 100 % You know, especially me, I moved to the South when I was, I guess, in second grade.

[164] So it's like, I'm friends with kids who, like, their parents have the thickest southern accents and my mom's from Philadelphia.

[165] And, you know, my dad's...

[166] You're a Yankee.

[167] Yeah.

[168] And so it's like, you know, I appreciate the Southern culture big time.

[169] And I like being a part of it.

[170] I think it's like a nice community.

[171] But at the same time, I had perspective on it because I was a little bit of an outsider to it.

[172] So, you know, some of these characters are all just basically people I feel like I grew up around.

[173] Dudes you probably watched that were five years older than you.

[174] Exactly.

[175] Holding court and stuff.

[176] Yeah.

[177] Like, I don't know.

[178] My town, again, it wasn't southern.

[179] It was in Michigan.

[180] But a great many of the people that lived there had all migrated up from Kentucky.

[181] And so there was a, I've yet to observe it elsewhere, just a hyper masculinity.

[182] Oh, yeah.

[183] That was just like either you were that or you were nobody.

[184] Yeah, totally.

[185] So it's interesting because I then arrived here.

[186] And I think for people here in Hollywood, I'm the closest version.

[187] of that they know most people in california too they're looking at you the same way like oh he's that guy but you were an artistic kid right i was and like you know people will ask me like do you get upset if people think that you're kenny powers or this and i guess to me it just i don't have that much of an ego when it comes to it so i don't really care how people see me or not but i kind of honestly take it as like a compliment the idea that the character feels so realize that they assume that it must not be a performance that's uh yeah you're right that's the ultimate compliment.

[188] I would have assumed you were pursuing acting like that.

[189] I mean, you're so so funny.

[190] You're just so, so funny.

[191] I was like, oh, that guy's always been a comedian.

[192] That's what he's done.

[193] And then in that interview, I found out, no, you went to film school to be a filmmaker, right?

[194] Yep, yep.

[195] And we, uh, the arts school we went to, you know, it's a state school in North Carolina.

[196] And so there's different concentrations there's, like, you'd go there to be a modern dancer.

[197] You could go there to design sets, to be an actor, to do film, to do music and for whatever reason at the time, the dean at the time of the, did not want the drama students like mixing with the film students.

[198] He thought that they would like ruin their craft or what they were trying to teach.

[199] So then we were sort of forced to just like put each other in each other's movies.

[200] So then I would just start acting just because I could like memorize lines better than my other friends could.

[201] Right.

[202] That was basically it.

[203] You knew how to stand on the dot on the ground and say words you had read that morning.

[204] I can kind of like look out of the of my eye and hit a mark without looking down yeah yeah you were saying your first kind of acting was doing a favor for david green yeah he had an actor drop out of all the real girls david green you know he was a year ahead of me in film school he lived next door to me in the dorms and so he was one of the first guys i met at school of the arts and i just instantly thought he was awesome i liked what the weird shit he was making i just thought that he was unique and he had this vision and i kind of like wanted to just like following his footsteps there because i like what he was doing there and right after he graduated he brought this little tiny movie george washington he came back to school to winston salem and we shot that movie like the day after i graduated from college we did like in 14 days and then you know we're all everybody's trying to figure out what they're going to do with their lives like i'm moving to los angeles with my girlfriend and my buddies and we're trying to figure it out and then meanwhile like david's being interviewed by charlie rose all the sudden and he's like you know like listed as one of the top 10 movies of that year by like Roger Ebert and so it was kind of cool to have somebody that you knew and had seen where they'd come from like find the success.

[205] And I think it kind of like motivated everybody like, oh, this is actually possible.

[206] Yeah, it's achievable.

[207] But you did move to L .A. and then you were coming on you primarily to be a writer, is that what you wanted to be?

[208] That's what I was trying to do.

[209] I was trying to write.

[210] I was trying to figure out how to direct.

[211] And, you know, and it just became clear.

[212] I was like, you know, the directing thing is not going to happen because there's other people who've actually directed things and that's who people are going to hire to do stuff.

[213] So I was like, better to spend my time trying to write because I can go wait tables at the crocodile cafe.

[214] Oh, my God, in Santa Monica?

[215] In Burbank.

[216] Oh, in Burbank?

[217] The less cool crocodiles.

[218] Because when my mom would visit me in Santa Monica, that was my big meal out.

[219] You're like, you want to go to crocodile cafe while I'm visiting?

[220] I'm like, oh, I do.

[221] Those rolls and tortilla soup are really good.

[222] I would have to prep those all the time.

[223] But, you know, when I was like doing that stuff, I could come home and it was like, you know, I'd make myself write or do stuff.

[224] And it kind of felt like writing was something, too, that.

[225] it could be undeniable like if you write something and it works and you're able to get it into somebody's hands that that was like probably the most realistic way of trying to find a niche into things you know well you were also at some point in this you were a camera operator yeah i was so i you know i moved out here and i was waiting tables i ended up getting a job at the holiday end in burbank they hired me as the night manager and so i was like that wouldn't mean that i was like the manager of like the restaurant and the karaoke bar and the crystal view lounge on the roof of the holiday.

[226] But it was at nighttime, so like nobody was ever there.

[227] You're telling me that place wasn't thriving.

[228] The karaoke bar was a scene, but nothing else really was really worth stopping in.

[229] But I would just sit there and just write all night long.

[230] Like, there was nothing going on.

[231] So I would just sit in this back office of this closed down kitchen and just spend all my time writing.

[232] And then like, you know, I'd come into work the next day and the manager and the next day was like, why is all the printer paper gone?

[233] You know, like, fuck you.

[234] So how did you end up operating a camera?

[235] So I had a buddy who worked at this post -production company in the Valley, and they did a lot of work.

[236] I mean, this isn't even a job anymore because, like, technology is, like, aced it out.

[237] But it was this thing called motion control, but we would use it in regards to, like, still photographs.

[238] So it's like that Ken Burns effect of you put a still photograph down and it, like, you zoom into the face of the settler, you know.

[239] And doesn't it plain out a couple of things, too?

[240] Yeah, exactly.

[241] Yeah, exactly.

[242] And so, you know, he was doing this for History Channel, behind the music, all that.

[243] So I got a job doing that for a while.

[244] We got to actually work on some cool shit doing it.

[245] We got to work with Stacey Peralta on that Dogtown in Z -Boys.

[246] Yeah, that was cool.

[247] That was pretty awesome.

[248] But it was basically just sitting around all day long looking at still photographs coming in and just like pushing in and pushing out on them for a few years.

[249] Yeah, what would you do?

[250] Would you have like some macro lens and you would focus just on some aspect and it would blur out everything else?

[251] Yeah, well, I feel like we pioneered this effect Because there was only like three people in the country that were even doing this It's like it was such a rare thing And then somebody invented a plug in the avid that just does it in there Put us all out of business But we would even like cock the pictures up sideways So there'd be like some like depth and you could like rack between people And then we had our bosses looking at us like, yes, these guys are innovators I don't want to make too big a deal out of it But I will not forget the first time I saw that in a fucking documentary I was like, what's happening here?

[252] They shot this with two cameras.

[253] It's 3D?

[254] I don't even have the glasses on.

[255] I felt like it was a tidal paradise shift.

[256] I was into it.

[257] It was interesting.

[258] And even at the time, I kind of felt like I had been out in LA at that point for like maybe three or four years.

[259] And I kind of felt like, you know what?

[260] This is a steady gig.

[261] If it doesn't go any further than this, it could be worse.

[262] You know, I could still be at the crocodile cafe.

[263] And so I felt a little, like, hypnotized into just like, maybe this is it.

[264] I'll have benefits.

[265] I'll have health insurance.

[266] And then David called about all the real girls and wanted to see if I was there.

[267] And I'm like, man, I just got a steady job anyway.

[268] Yeah.

[269] And so, but I, it like woke me up from my haze and I like quit the job and like went down there to go do that.

[270] I just kind of woke me up and was like, man, you know what?

[271] I came out here for a purpose.

[272] I need to not just settle for something.

[273] I need to kind of be uncomfortable until I get to where I really want to be.

[274] Yeah.

[275] And what's your overall temperament?

[276] Are you an optimist?

[277] Are you pessimistic?

[278] I think I'm pretty optimistic when it comes.

[279] I kind of felt like when I got out to L .A., I was like I didn't feel like the competition was stiff.

[280] I felt like it was a matter of just being able to persevere because I felt like a lot of people were not really putting their all into it.

[281] I would see people complaining about not getting where they want, but at the same time they weren't really working on it.

[282] They would like sign up for a class, an improv class, and think that it should all just happen or, you know what I mean?

[283] But it didn't feel like people around me were really working hard on.

[284] I was like, I can do this.

[285] I can stick this out.

[286] I just have to figure out how to get a job that doesn't make me want to kill myself in the meantime.

[287] Right.

[288] So you go do that movie, and then how quick after that is foot fistway?

[289] So I think that was 2003 was that movie.

[290] So then it was kind of like, oh, maybe this is what I want to do.

[291] And I came back to Los Angeles and then was like, you know what I'm going to move back to.

[292] I moved back and forth between like Virginia and North Carolina and Los Angeles like multiple times.

[293] I'm done with here.

[294] I'm going to go home and try to write.

[295] I just constantly was, I think it was because I was just failing.

[296] and I was trying to fail on my own terms and not, like, I own the failing.

[297] And after all the real girls, yeah, I kind of was like, you know what?

[298] I need to focus on the writing.

[299] I need to get out of Los Angeles.

[300] I'm going to go live in my parents' house for a bit, and I won't have to work as hard, and I can spend all my time writing.

[301] Came back to Los Angeles after we shot that.

[302] And then I met who is my wife now.

[303] I met her, like, the first, like, week I came back to L .A. And I was only planning to be in L .A. for, like, a month.

[304] I was just going to come back here and basically pack my shit up and put it all onto a storage unit and drive across country.

[305] I met my, who's my wife now?

[306] I met her and we just instantly hit it off and I was like, where'd you meet?

[307] We just met at a, like, I lived in this apartment complex on like Fairfax and Santa Monica right around there.

[308] We just looked like the karate kids apartment complex.

[309] It's a shithole and she knew somebody that like lived in the apartment completely random just bumped into her and yeah, it was like oh fuck, I just met this girl and now I'm like moving back to Virginia and I didn't really know what to do.

[310] And so I asked her if she wanted to drive cross -country with me. This was only like four weeks into dating.

[311] It was like, you know, why don't we just like, this could be the grand send -off.

[312] We'll go on this trip and then we can say goodbye to each other.

[313] And we just had this, like, incredible cross -country experience.

[314] I mean, like, we're eating mushrooms in Utah together and going down in New Orleans and just had this amazing time.

[315] And then forgot where you were even going.

[316] Yeah.

[317] And I spent all the fucking money I had saved up to on the trip.

[318] I was, you know, I said goodbye to her.

[319] at the airport and that was supposed to be our like goodbye and then both of us were like not ready for it so then i found myself just like broke at my parents house and there was really i couldn't go back to los angeles now because i didn't even have any money for like a security deposit or even gas or anything so she was sort of the beacon i was like you know what i need to knuckle in i'll get a job here i'll save up money and then i'll do some writing and i'll come back out there and so i ended up like living at my parents house for like i guess about like eight months and i was bartending she an actor She's not.

[320] When I met her, she worked with like deaf and blind students at LA City College.

[321] She was just kind of like would help students with special needs.

[322] Yeah, and I just like that.

[323] I like meeting somebody that didn't like have any interest in what this industry was.

[324] I thought it was like refreshing out here.

[325] Yeah.

[326] I went the other direction, but yeah.

[327] You went in.

[328] But she seems pretty cool.

[329] But yeah, I got a job bartending at night.

[330] And then I was like substitute teaching in the daytime.

[331] And that was kind of like where the idea for eastbound and down kind of came from.

[332] It's like I was I was there subbing.

[333] And then, like, felt like I had to, like, weirdly explain myself to these high school kids.

[334] Like, you know, that I had real dreams and visions and that I wasn't, like, going to be around here long.

[335] And that sort of, like, obnoxious.

[336] There's nothing better than, like, worrying that these kids understand, like, I have a bigger mission just so you pieces of shit now.

[337] I don't belong here.

[338] So let's get into it.

[339] Everyone open your book.

[340] It's exactly it.

[341] That was really where Kenny Powers came from was just that idea that I thought that I was, like, somehow better than this living on my parents' couch.

[342] But yeah, I moved back to Los Angeles then, had my money, moved back in, got a job with a better motion control company, was making real money.

[343] And then Jody Hill was like, you know, I want to go make this movie in North Carolina.

[344] Would you want to do this?

[345] And I was like, yeah, let's definitely do it.

[346] And is that because is he from there, just because you all have gone to school there?

[347] He's from Concord, North Carolina.

[348] And he actually, when he was in high school, like, he started a Taekwondo studio in Concord.

[349] Yeah.

[350] Because he genuinely loves Taekwondo.

[351] He genuinely was into it.

[352] Yeah, Jody was, like, bullied when he was young.

[353] And so he, like, he got into, like, Taekwondo and martial arts stuff.

[354] Have you ever talked to Seth Rogen about the fact that he was a real avid martial arts student?

[355] It's pretty awesome.

[356] I was like, where do you think your confidence comes from?

[357] He's like, I don't think karate.

[358] And I'm like, well, that's not the answer I was expecting.

[359] It weirdly does.

[360] I used to make bad grades in elementary school.

[361] Like, I didn't pay attention or anything was my problem.

[362] And I started martial arts when I was, like, in fifth grade.

[363] And then all of a sudden, like, my grades turned around overnight.

[364] I wasn't, like, fidgeting with my balls all the time.

[365] I was able to, like, be calm.

[366] No kidding.

[367] So you genuinely had studied it, too.

[368] I studied it for three years, and I liked it.

[369] I thought it was cool.

[370] But then what happened to me is I, like, I got good at it.

[371] And my, like, sensei saw, like, promising me. So he moved me up to the advanced class.

[372] And I was, like, 12 years old.

[373] And I was just getting my fucking ass beat by 16 -year -olds, 17 -year -olds that I ended up just quitting.

[374] I just didn't like it anymore.

[375] No, did you originally get into it?

[376] because you liked martial arts movies or were you fearful of the guys around you?

[377] I don't know what it was.

[378] I think it was just from probably from movies.

[379] Growing up in the 80s, like, ninjas were like the coolest thing you could be.

[380] Absolutely.

[381] I had a bunch of throwing stars.

[382] And so I thought somehow that like taking martial arts, Ishen Roo Karate at the Parks of Rec, would teach me how to master these throwing stars.

[383] Yeah.

[384] I had homemade numchucks that I had made out of like a doll.

[385] I cut in half and put like a fucking plant hook in the end.

[386] And I would be fucking really getting into it.

[387] and one would just fly off and go through the drywall and then explain it to my mom.

[388] And I had all these knives.

[389] I wasn't really allowed to have a knife so I was like fashioning all these kitchen knives into my own collection of knives and stuff.

[390] My son does the same thing.

[391] Like he doesn't even watch.

[392] I mean, culturally obviously like ninjas don't have the power that used to have.

[393] But like even my son's the same way.

[394] I mean, like from when he was super little, he was always turning things into weapons all the time.

[395] Yeah.

[396] I don't know what it is.

[397] Bad genetics for us.

[398] Yeah.

[399] So you do foot fist away.

[400] You know, I know this guy.

[401] There's a bunch of them in my town.

[402] And you guys must have made that a short shoot, I would imagine.

[403] Yeah, I think it was like maybe 16 or 17 days.

[404] And where did they get the money for it?

[405] Jody, him and his brother and his dad, like basically put it on credit cards.

[406] Oh, wow.

[407] Yeah.

[408] And I think we made the whole thing for like 70 grand.

[409] And then we shot it on film.

[410] It was shot on 16.

[411] Yeah.

[412] And then when it got into Sundance, like we had to finish the movie.

[413] So then the movie's budget like blew up to like $400 ,000 to like.

[414] get it rushed and get it into the festival and everything.

[415] But it was wild.

[416] I mean, honestly, to this day, it's still, I think, my favorite thing that I've ever done.

[417] Like, that feeling of us just doing it ourselves and, like, when it was over with, like, how excited we were.

[418] And, like, we partied our asses off for, like, the next, like, 18 hours.

[419] We, like, wrapped at, like, I think, like, 7 a .m. And we were, like, up partying.

[420] You know, we never stopped drinking until, like, the next day.

[421] I guess we should get into the edit room at some point.

[422] But we did it.

[423] you go to Sundance with that and just even like submitting it you have a feeling when you wrap it right which is like oh my god we did this we shot every word on the page and we went to all the locations and we did it and then there's of course you go through the second phase of editing it and then maybe your perspective shifts a bit but you could sense could you feel like oh we did something great cool I couldn't tell like it was one of those things like even just seeing me in it was kind of a little bit like well this doesn't seem like a real movie I'm in it and uh and you know it was like even what that movie is it's not like it's it's kind of similar to what we do now where like it doesn't hold to the standards of a genre like weirdly too dark in places yeah yeah yeah other times it's silly so there was like a tone thing that i was like you know are people going to get this you know going to that art school we were friends with a bunch of musicians like that was like the other guys we'd hang out with all the time where these like very talented group of musicians like ben best who created eastbound with us he was a musician and this guy joey stevens who still does all of our scores and soundtracks now.

[424] And we just basically turn to those guys.

[425] We're like, help us make sense of this tone.

[426] We need like a fucking soundtrack that rocks and like lets people know when it's okay to laugh and when it's okay to like feel real emotion.

[427] So we can kind of cue the audience into knowing that we're in on these tonal shifts.

[428] Yeah.

[429] And so those guys like really, I think helped bring it together.

[430] And then we've like, that's just been our recipe for everything is that we really like zero in on what the music is because I think the music just really helps no matter what it is, if it's vice principles or even in gemstones.

[431] Helps you just like the audience know that like this tonal shift is not an accident where you're on for something here.

[432] Yeah, I think the first time I became aware of that watching movies was like how Scorsese would use that.

[433] Like he would have this great, raucous fun Rolling Stone song while someone's getting their ass kicked.

[434] And you're like, oh good, I'm allowed to enjoy this.

[435] Yeah.

[436] This music's telling me I can enjoy it.

[437] Exactly.

[438] But you know, and I'll do this several times while we talk and I am in no way implying I'm making the same level of shit you are.

[439] but I'll just, I have made shit and I will say, I too have a sense of humor that I think because I grew up around a lot of violence and I was fucking blackout drunk for years.

[440] I think that stuff's really funny because I've lived through it.

[441] But then you start showing it to like an audience.

[442] You realize like, ooh, my personality, like, scarier stuff that I find funny is a little too much for people.

[443] We get that all the time.

[444] Like, people will constantly talk to us about like, when do you think you've gone too far?

[445] And I'm just like, I don't even think about any of this stuff being far at all.

[446] Like, I feel like it just seems normal to me. And the testing part can get a little, like it checks your compass a little bit.

[447] A hundred percent.

[448] You know, honestly, the testing part is what kind of made me, like, shift my priorities once I started to finally get into this industry and figure out what I want to put my time in.

[449] When we had to get, like, I mean, I think Footfist's Way, I don't know why they even tested it, but they tested it and scored like a 36.

[450] It was like a bomb.

[451] And then I realized I was like, man, there's nothing we make that's going.

[452] to survive this testing process because we're intentionally trying to put people off with some of these things.

[453] And so that that's going to be reflecting these scores.

[454] And it's always going to equal the same thing that none of this shit's going to score well.

[455] Studio's going to lose interest in it.

[456] They're not going to like, they're not betting.

[457] They're not betting on it.

[458] Yeah.

[459] And then we're going to have seven.

[460] Yeah, we'll have a fart come out.

[461] And then everyone will like be less inclined to do it with us next time.

[462] Yeah.

[463] Well, what's interesting is you, we now live in a niche model.

[464] But you, you didn't when you first had operational.

[465] opportunities was very much still like no no it's got to be as broadly appealing as possible but but now it's all about niche you know like flea bag i love you've you seen flea bag yeah yeah it's fucking phenomenal there's no way that appeals to everyone but the people it appeals to it's like i'm now that's my religion that show yep and and it's awesome that that's the environment now but at the beginning it's rough yeah and i feel like it's tv i feel like with movies so much has become about what those numbers are on the first weekend that it just like that's the story that's the narrative where with television I feel like it's more about people finding shows and sharing it with their friends and it feels like a more organic way to like discover something I think yeah the days of like these movies would just hang out for three four months and they'd gain momentum over the year like that just doesn't now happen just to make you feel good about not getting land of the lost uh me conquering you for that role I remember when that, like, you know, I had a blast on that movie, and it was just an interesting thing to kind of see like, oh, man, I don't really know what's up.

[466] I mean, I thought that people would like this, but people hate this.

[467] But the most likable man in the world is the lead.

[468] And so, like, and you can sense that before the movie's coming out, like, ooh, okay, the initial feedback is there's not many people wanting to do pieces on the cast.

[469] And you can kind of feel it.

[470] And we were up in New York getting ready to do press.

[471] for it and the movie was coming out like in two days and I was like in a hotel room with will feral and in jimmy miller jimmy miller was like yeah this is the time that you just like hold on your family like focus on what's important you're like oh this is it going to go well this weekend and so i was like you know what i was going to go down to virginia and just like hang out with my friends no one down there gives a shit about movies and i'll just let this weekend go past so i like caught up with some buddies and like we went out on this boat and we're out in the middle of fucking nowhere i mean like it's some like redneck dump bar that you can only get to a by a boat.

[472] And we're out there.

[473] I haven't been looking at the trades or anything watching to see how the movie's going to do.

[474] And these like two rednecks come up to us and they like recognize me and they're like, oh yeah, you're in that movie.

[475] Man, y 'all are getting your ass kicked this weekend.

[476] It was like Saturday at noon.

[477] I'm like, how the fuck do these guys know about box office mojo?

[478] Two dudes who had drove a fan boat up to the bar.

[479] Just catching alligators.

[480] Even worse, I saw you got a C -Mata C -Sina score.

[481] So it's a I'm going to do a two -time multiple at best.

[482] It's exactly right.

[483] But that was like a weird turning point for me where I'm like, man, if these guys are paying attention to the box office, it's like, you know, if that's the judgment of success, this is over for anybody who wants to make anything left of center.

[484] Oh, I noticed it.

[485] Like, I've been watching 60 minutes since I was a kid at my grandparents' house.

[486] And I started noticing when they would do, like, they have the little breaks in 60 minutes.

[487] So they'll give you a little sports update, like in the second act.

[488] And then they'll give you a little financial update, right?

[489] Like what the Dow did that week.

[490] And they started including box office results.

[491] And I was like, oh, this is this on 60 minutes.

[492] And it did become like almost a sports preoccupation.

[493] Yeah.

[494] Well, because you think about it's like stocks make sense because people could be watching that can actually benefit from a stock going up or down.

[495] But with that, it's just like like people really care how much money Warner Brothers makes this weekend.

[496] It's kind of odd.

[497] Yeah, it is strange.

[498] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[499] We've all been there.

[500] the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[501] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[502] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[503] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[504] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

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[508] What's up, guys?

[509] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[510] and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[511] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

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[517] But once Footfist's Way came out, you then went to Sundance.

[518] And then, of course, it was like, it was definitely a movie that comedians watched, you know.

[519] So I'm assuming, I don't know this part of the story, but I assume, soon Will and Adam kind of discovered it.

[520] And they kind of maybe.

[521] Yeah, like, you know, so like we got into Sundance and we're all like over the moon.

[522] We couldn't really believe that that had happened.

[523] And it was like, this is crazy.

[524] You know, we're going to get to go to Sundance.

[525] So the whole crew that made the movie, we rented like one house in Park City.

[526] There was like, it ended up being like 30 people staying in like a two -bedroom house.

[527] Like everyone was sick for like four months after that.

[528] It was like everyone just spread some.

[529] Hepatitis.

[530] But, you know, we went there and it was just that I feel like this is how just things are in general with careers.

[531] You always kind of imagine and get excited about the possibilities.

[532] And then it's always below that is what happens.

[533] And so, you know, we're going there wondering, like, what if there's a fucking bidding war?

[534] What if this and what of that?

[535] Yeah.

[536] And then we go and the very first screening we have, it's like a midnight screening, can't sleep.

[537] I can't, you know, I can't eat anything.

[538] We're so nervous.

[539] Whole theater's packed.

[540] There's a line outside.

[541] It's like, how this is pretty awesome.

[542] The movie starts in like 10 minutes into the movie.

[543] Half the theater just gets up and walks out of the movie.

[544] Oh, what's just like, oh, my God, what's going on?

[545] And I was like, man, is it that bad?

[546] And it turned out, I guess, the movie that it had screened right before, I think it was like the science of sleep or something.

[547] There was like a bidding war for it.

[548] So it was all the executives were like getting up and like getting into this bidding war.

[549] But it was like the most like, ooh, feeling.

[550] And then it's like we didn't get an offer on the movie while we were there.

[551] So we kind of like went to Sundance with this like champion spirit.

[552] And we kind of like left like, well, we got we got parkas from experience.

[553] Even the two room condo you run in.

[554] like oh well that'll get paid for when you sell this movie and now you're like oh you're you're leaving debt probably i need 20 bucks from anyone who used a towel this weekend but we you know so we went back to our lives basically we're like well okay you know we'll see what happens yeah and then it just it just after sundance it started just getting passed around and then we suddenly got this phone call yeah that adam and will were interested in it and then suddenly like out of nowhere we're just sitting down and meeting with guys that i was like watching on tv like the week before and now they're like sitting down asking what we want to do.

[555] Did you have favorites at that time?

[556] Were you even drawn to comedy?

[557] We were looking at what we were doing was like what Scorsese and Altman and these guys are doing.

[558] So we weren't even really like looking like we're trying to get into the comedy game.

[559] But then it was like all these comedy guys that we admired were all like into it.

[560] And so then it just, you know, we started to just follow that path of like, this is how this weird thing we did is going to translate into more opportunities.

[561] Right.

[562] And when you were writing on the first iteration in L .A., what was, were you writing were you writing dramas or comedies man it was all over the place like i was like writing like horror sci -fi like all over the place it wasn't specifically and you know anything comedic did you have a writing hero that's like when i went i think pulp fiction came out my senior year of of high school right before i'm going into film school so it was like at that time it was like you know you're studying him and kevin smith and what's his name ed burns and then even billy bob thornton had just made sling blade and so it was all of these like simple concepts that worked And they were dialogue -driven.

[563] And I saw Paul Fiction, I was like, hold on a second.

[564] Like, there's something here I can relate to.

[565] There's something.

[566] Like, I've not related to the movies I've seen before, but there's something here that I have no way did I think I was Quentin Tarantino.

[567] But I was like, just that dialogue, that being the inroad to it, I was like, that seems achievable in some way.

[568] 100%.

[569] And even just the idea of, like, who Quentin Tarantino was, the idea that, like, that comes out.

[570] And then suddenly you're like, ooh, he wrote true romance.

[571] and he did punch -ups on crimson tides.

[572] Yes, I remember.

[573] Oh, I bet that's his line right there.

[574] The horse thing, right?

[575] The white and black horses.

[576] That's true, but do you know they're born black or something?

[577] It was the big turn of that.

[578] Yeah, I went down the same nerd hole with him.

[579] So the first thing I remember was like, oh, God, hey, did you hear the dude from Footfist Way is in Tropic Thunder?

[580] Was that like the first big?

[581] Once those guys, once Will and Adam picked that up, like we met Judd, we met Seth, we started meeting all those guys.

[582] Then I met Lorne Michaels.

[583] and I got in the lonely eye guys and I got cast in like basically in 2006 my whole life just changed then we went to Sundance wasn't sure what was going to happen after Sundance and then all of a sudden I got offered hot rod first like real movie first paycheck on location in Vancouver sag member the whole thing yeah insurance everything was changing and I was still so broke at the time that I was like you know when are the paychecks coming in for this movie I still like I'm an overdraft I can't fucking pay for this hotel rooms you know So, like, actually, I'll back up for one sec. Right before we did Footfist Way, I was finally able to quit the motion control job because David Green, he had sold this script to Sam Jones.

[584] He got hired to do this story about this motocross racer, Bubba Stewart.

[585] Right.

[586] And so David pulled me on to, like, write it with him.

[587] And so that was, like, my first taste of, like, any sort of paycheck at all.

[588] And I remember the check was supposed to come, like, right before Christmas, our, like, commencement check.

[589] But you know how it is with writing stuff.

[590] It's like you can wait for like a year to get paid on something.

[591] But I was like so broke that I was like, I need this money.

[592] I quit my fucking job.

[593] I got ahead of this thing.

[594] And I can remember the check came like the day before I was supposed to leave to go home to Virginia for Christmas.

[595] I had no money for Christmas presents for anybody I knew.

[596] And I had already spent half of this money.

[597] And so I get the check and I go to the bank to go cash it.

[598] And they're like, yeah, this is going to be like a 15 day charge.

[599] Like you've never had more than like $200 in your bank account.

[600] We're not going to fucking like cash.

[601] this check for $200 ,000, you know?

[602] Right.

[603] And I'm like, what do you mean?

[604] Why do I get this fucking money?

[605] You know, 15 days from now, what?

[606] And they're like, you need to go to the bank that it was written from.

[607] So like, me and my wife, like, we went to Beverly Hills and, like, we go in there.

[608] I need this money in cash, you know?

[609] And they fucking give us it in cash.

[610] We literally put it in a brown paper bag.

[611] It was like, we robbed the place.

[612] And then I, like, get back in the car.

[613] And we were like, so, like, looking at the money.

[614] Like, oh, my God, this is fucking insane.

[615] and we drive back to Washington Mutual on Fairfax, and I'm like, there, motherfucker, take that cat.

[616] Put out of my back.

[617] Sting some of it up your ass and some of it in my account.

[618] So you know, dolomites.

[619] Yeah, exactly.

[620] You guard.

[621] Take these cheap motherfuckers and wipe your ass with them.

[622] But not all of them.

[623] I need that.

[624] That's your presence.

[625] But please, the majority, just use the ones to wipe your ass and please put the 50s and hundreds in my account.

[626] When you went back to your hometown, having just had that fucking paper sack full of cash are you just like at the bar buying everyone drink I mean are you a hundred percent yeah this is never going to end it's like wow you can burn through 200 grand a lot quicker than I thought you could but we we uh as like you know so after I got hot rod while I was shooting hot rod uh Seth Rogan and those guys cast me and drill bit Taylor which was like another comedy and then right as I got that I got cast in Heartbreak Kids so it was like suddenly you know going from no movies at all to three movies back to back productions were having to negotiate when I was out of one movie and when I could get into the next one and you know and it was just this like whirlwind for these like six months of like bouncing between these three movies and I met Ben Stiller on the Heartbreak Kid and yeah while we were shooting he just told me he's like hey I'm doing this movie Tropic Thunder and there's this role would you be interested in this and he gave me the script and it was like you know I was a fan of Ben's anyway I was a fan of his directing too I always loved the cable guy I thought it was awesome Yeah, me too.

[627] And I love reality bikes.

[628] And I thought that Tropic Thunder just to me seemed like this is exactly the kind of movie I love.

[629] Like I love that it's violent.

[630] I like that it's rated R and it's like massive.

[631] I love Vietnam movies.

[632] Now all of a sudden it goes from, holy crap, I can't believe I'm working to, oh, geez, I probably need to guide this in some direction.

[633] Did you have any notion at that time of like, I mean, I guess you were so protected because everything you did, you were with huge stars who.

[634] Yeah, it's like if they were tanks, no one's like blaming it on.

[635] me. Right.

[636] But were you thinking about that yet?

[637] You know what?

[638] After that first year, I started thinking about it, because I was just, at this point, I was just, I couldn't believe I was even getting the opportunity to do something.

[639] It was kind of crazy to the idea of getting a paycheck to do something like this.

[640] But as we started doing eastbound and down, and we got, we sold the pilot of Eastbound and down that same year as well.

[641] And then as we kind of like got back into zeroing in with Jody and we're writing this, it kind of like just reminded me of like, I want to do my own thing here.

[642] And I need to make sure I don't like ruin all.

[643] all this goodwill just like appearing in other people's stuff yeah like blowing all my material out so that then when I'm like trying to do my shit it's like people have already seen all the moves and it's over you know yeah totally I'm wondering would you have set up eastbound like two years later when we got into it after just from doing foot fistway I just saw the writing on the wall with movies I really did I was like I had to convince Jody that we should try to sell a TV show he didn't see what the upside of it was at that time and I'm like I'm telling you man like the way that this movie stuff is going with I didn't know there was anything with this testing like our shit's never going to work here it will never work we actively I feel like are trying to isolate people sometimes when we make stuff and I'm like that's not the recipe for success you know I mean I would watch it even with I'd see guys like Seth Rogan and those guys are so incredible with being able to navigate that testing process like they use that shit as a tool like they're able to like go in and they're not offended when the audience doesn't respond to a joke, they're able to, like, use all that stuff constructively and, like, create something that works.

[644] And for us, we were, like, too precious.

[645] We couldn't survive that process.

[646] We would, like, get that criticism.

[647] And instead of using it and bettering it, we would, like, double down and be like, this fucking, these idiots don't know what they're talking about.

[648] I'm going to let that beat play four seconds longer now.

[649] Yeah, we just had, we had the wrong attitude for it.

[650] And I think I saw the, right before we shot the Footfist Way was like when Ricky Jervais's the office came out, too.

[651] As a comedy goes, like, just sitting down and watching that all in one.

[652] I was like, man, this thing has affected me more than anything I've seen in theaters lately.

[653] Like, this is pretty incredible.

[654] And I loved how small it was and that you could sit down and watch it in kind of like one long weekend.

[655] Yeah.

[656] To me, I was like, this is what we need to do.

[657] Like, our comedy would work like this.

[658] Yeah, you're really lucky that you recognize that early on.

[659] And it's so true, I was driving home.

[660] I was like, what's the last movie I fucking loved in the movie theater?

[661] And I can name you 15 shows of watching the last 18 months that like it was my whole life for that week and I fucking love it.

[662] I can't wait for another thing and it's just crazy how it's shifted.

[663] It is.

[664] Me personally, I way prefer television now in general.

[665] Yeah, I mean there's so many things competing for you that I just find like even the best movies that come out.

[666] It's like people talk about them for like a week.

[667] Yeah, yeah.

[668] And then it's just kind of over with.

[669] It's sad.

[670] Yeah.

[671] So what's your wife's name?

[672] My wife's name is Gia.

[673] I wrote that down.

[674] Gia.

[675] But I think I was confused that it would be Gia.

[676] Yeah, that's what everyone else, like even when I first started dating her, I always, like, would just kind of like mumble her name.

[677] I'm like, I know it's not Gia.

[678] Just hit the Gia.

[679] Yeah, let's go out.

[680] That's what I would do.

[681] I was with a gal for nine years, seven of those just abject failure, and then started making movies and money.

[682] And I started getting to basically realize my dream I had had for so many years.

[683] It was not easy on our relationship.

[684] All of a sudden, I had money.

[685] I was very bad at sharing it in a way that didn't make her.

[686] feel guilty like i bought her shit but i reminded her i bought her shit or like i'd complain about a bill i paid and she'd be like what the fuck's wrong with you like last year you made six thousand dollars this year you're making hundreds a thousand you're offended by the cpk bill i just was not good at it i also think it our whole relationship people definitely remembered her more than me she was way better looking than me and smarter and then all of a sudden you know people remember me everywhere we go and just it was a hard transition was yours easy or did it have challenges You know, it had a few little challenges, but, you know, I mean, part of the thing that was awesome about me and Gia is, like, we just never fight.

[687] I mean, we're one of those, like, annoying couples that are just like, your big fights are like, you know, do you want the comforter?

[688] No, I don't want the comforter.

[689] Like, are you sure?

[690] Look, if you want the comforter, just put the comforter on.

[691] Don't ask me if I need to comfort her.

[692] It's like, that's the extent of our fights.

[693] So even just doing this stuff, it's like, Gia's an artist.

[694] She's like a painter and a photographer and a chef.

[695] And she understands this sort of lifestyle and she's self -sufficient.

[696] and she can kind of like do her own thing.

[697] The logistics of the career are such that you're going away to shoot Tropic Thunder.

[698] I don't know where we at Philippines or something.

[699] In Kauai, yeah.

[700] Oh, in Kauai.

[701] Okay.

[702] So she either has to come, right, if you guys want to be together, or I don't know, you guys are all flying back.

[703] Anyways, I could see where it would be, I would feel like, well, shit.

[704] Now, I'm just kind of a little attached to this freight train and I'm the caboos.

[705] And I'm just going wherever this guy's career takes us.

[706] Yeah, 100%.

[707] I mean, I always felt that for, like, she would come with me on a lot of those early movies.

[708] Everything was happening so fast that we were just kind of, like, bouncing around.

[709] I mean, we lived together.

[710] But, yeah, there was never any close calls of, like, we're not going to do this anymore or anything.

[711] It's been harder since we've had kids because then she can't, like, getting these movies would be like an adventure.

[712] It'd be like her and I would get to go to some other country or some other place to live and have some kind of cool experience.

[713] And then once I had kids, it was like, she couldn't just come with me. And so then, like, I would find myself, even on the coolest movie, being in some weird purgatory where I'm like, I feel a little weird about, like, going out, but I'm also just bored.

[714] And, you know, you know.

[715] You almost want to not let yourself enjoy it.

[716] Yeah, exactly.

[717] Exactly.

[718] I felt that pretty hardcore on Alien when we did that in Australia.

[719] And it was kind of like a little bit of a turning point for me. Because I'm like, I don't know if I can do this as a career.

[720] It's like, this is kind of crazy to be gone from my kids and my wife for like four months.

[721] It's like so much changes.

[722] And that was, like, part of what influenced me to, like, get down to Charleston.

[723] I'm like, you know what?

[724] We can, like, work down there.

[725] Every time I've ever shot anything, we've always had to go back to shoot it somewhere else.

[726] Like, we never, they're never giving us enough money to shoot things in L .A. So we always are having to find, like, a tax incentive.

[727] And David Green and myself were like, well, you know, that was just part of the reason.

[728] Like, let's just go try to work somewhere where we don't have to, like, uproot our whole lives and, like, miss out on so much of what's happening with our kids.

[729] Yeah.

[730] Yeah.

[731] Alien was pretty tough because that's like a dream job to work with Ridley Scott on a movie and a franchise like that.

[732] And I found myself, like, loving the working experience and then just like, but having to do like a ton of soul searching about what I was doing.

[733] Yeah, right, because you're like, it's a, it's a great privilege to get as many things as you dreamt of.

[734] So I recognize it's such an enormous gift to be able to find out that maybe your dream and life isn't as important as you thought your dream was, right?

[735] It's odd.

[736] Yeah.

[737] Were you a huge fan of that alien?

[738] Oh, yeah.

[739] I mean, that was insane.

[740] I mean, like, you know.

[741] You were great in that.

[742] Oh, thanks a lot.

[743] Because, you know, it's fun when you go, like, see a comedian take that swing.

[744] You're like, okay, how's just going to go?

[745] Is he going to be the one who ruins the whole movie?

[746] Yeah, totally.

[747] There's always that risk, you know?

[748] It's insane.

[749] And then, like, I was just like, man, I just, I want to be in the zone.

[750] I'm not trying to bump the tone of this thing.

[751] I got to figure out how to, like, fit into this.

[752] And then, like, Ridley's like, yeah, we can.

[753] We cast James Franco as Catherine Watterson's husband who dies in the beginning.

[754] I'm like, fuck, my first scenes in this thing have to be with Franco.

[755] It's like, it's going to be so hard to shake the idea that I'm just like one of the crew members.

[756] Yeah.

[757] Well, you're waiting for one of you to pull a join out or something.

[758] Yeah, and then you also write, there's probably a voice in your head.

[759] I don't know if like my favorite comedians that have transitioned into drama is like Bill Murray's the high watermark where he doesn't pretend he's not Bill Murray.

[760] He doesn't like try to, you know, knock down everything interesting.

[761] about himself or quirk of his he like embraces still who he is yet pulls it off and I so I would imagine part of you was going like no I still got to be Danny like I got to find some some level that's the right level 100 % it's like I would often think about how filmmakers the choices they make in longevity but with actors because I didn't have any interest in doing it I never thought about some sort of roadmap of like well how do you do it Gia my wife her uncle is Cheech Marin no yeah and so like that explains the mushrooms in Utah yeah exactly Like, you know, I met him at, like, when we were even dating, I'd meet him at, like, Thanksgiving or Easter with their family.

[762] And then as I started to find success, like, talking to him, he, like, told me this thing.

[763] He's like, yeah, you know, enjoy it, make the right choices.

[764] He's like, comedians have about seven movies.

[765] That's about what you get.

[766] And I started, I'm like, man, I never thought about that.

[767] And then I started kind of thinking about the guys that like.

[768] I'm like, I guess that is about what it is, you know?

[769] Like, you get about seven movies and then people have kind of seen what you do and they're ready for somebody new.

[770] But when you kind of started looking at it that way, I was like, well, how about the guys who had more than seven?

[771] Like, what do they do?

[772] You know, and even just somebody like John Goodman, who's in gemstones, it's like, you look at him and it's like, man, it's a pretty insane career.

[773] Oh, one of the best.

[774] And the idea that he's been in so many funny things and then he can be in the Coen brothers.

[775] And even he was in TV when TV wasn't cool.

[776] I mean, he was able to go from Roseanne and then still be in arachnophobia and like all these other summer blockbusters.

[777] Yeah, he's made to keep it up.

[778] He, this was what I was wondering when I was watching it last night.

[779] Do you get, wait, before I even asked this question, because I'll forget, on Tropic Thunder, Nick Nolte, were you like, give me Nick Nolte?

[780] Let me talk to him about 48 hours.

[781] What was happening at his prime?

[782] Were you interested in that at all?

[783] 100%.

[784] You know, I spent almost all my time on that movie with Nick Nolte because he and I were in all the scenes together.

[785] And the way that movie worked is, you know, it was long.

[786] We were in Kauai for like three and a half months or something.

[787] It was crazy.

[788] And the way that worked is it was such a fast -moving machine.

[789] There were so many parts, like, every single day you were on call.

[790] They never told you if you were really going to work or not because, like, if there was weather, whatever, they would change things.

[791] But in Kauai, like, the only place you get cell phone reception is basically at the hotel.

[792] Like, if you want to go do anything, there's not really reception out there.

[793] So you had these, like, long periods of time where you're basically just, like, stuck in a hotel room where everyone else is on vacation, having fun.

[794] And you're just kind of, like, waiting to see if you're going to have to go into work and Walk through the back of a scene.

[795] Yeah.

[796] And so Nick was staying in the same hotel I was and we were on the same schedule.

[797] So as the movie went on, it would be like, my phone rang like, have you heard from him?

[798] And I'm like, no, I was like, do you want to go snorkeling?

[799] He was, he was awesome.

[800] And he had so many crazy stories.

[801] Oh, he must have the best.

[802] He had this one story that I thought was so fucking funny.

[803] He was telling me about like back in the day, it was in the 70 -some time and he was at this party and Cassavetes was there and he like really wanted to like introduce himself to him but he was just too nervous to do it so he like you know okay I'll take a shot then I'll go introduce myself and takes two takes three takes four gets into it and then he gets too drunk to go introduce himself and he never goes and introduces him so then like years later he's like at another party and Cassavetes is there and he's like all right I'm going to go finally introduce myself so he goes up to him and tells him you know it's been one of my biggest regrets that we were this party and I never introduced myself.

[804] It gets me. He's like, what are you talking about?

[805] We like fucking party until the sun came up.

[806] I was on the back of your motorcycle for half the night.

[807] Oh man, that's the bad.

[808] So my first movie, Bert Reynolds was in and he's my all -time favorite.

[809] And so every day at lunch, I was the annoying.

[810] I was like 28, I think, on that movie.

[811] I had a good knock on his fucking door of his trailer.

[812] It all culminated with him telling me a story about he and Hal Needham were roommates in Santa Monica.

[813] And Hal came home one day from some job and he comes in he's like bert you got to take me to the hospital i i broke my back and bert's like i don't think you broke your back you don't think you'd be able to walk or whatever he's like just take me in the fucking hospital so he takes him in the hospital in Santa Monica they put him in the little gown and everything they give him an x -ray and they conclude yes he has broken his back and he's got some fluid in his lung and so i guess uh hell was flirting with the nurse they're going to have to take fluid out of hell need him's lung so the doctor's going to put a needle on his back, and then he's asked the nurse to hold his legs in case he collapses.

[814] And the doctor puts the needle in his back into his lung, and Hal Needham completely shits himself in the hospital gown while the nurse is holding his legs.

[815] I was like, of all the places I thought this story was going, he's like laying all these like little breadcrumbs about he's flirting with the nurse and the doctor's getting annoyed.

[816] I'm like, okay, this is going to be like, Hale's going to ask.

[817] currout at the end of this story and the doctor's going to say we're having an affair.

[818] No, hell's shit on a nurse.

[819] Diarrhea story.

[820] On a nurse with Bert Reynolds in the room sitting on the fucking little bed.

[821] How lucky are we to get these nuggets?

[822] These nuggets.

[823] Of all the movies you did, this is the end, I thought that was one of the scenes where I was like, oh, they fucking turned him loose and he just delivered something that couldn't be written.

[824] That's just the greatest I mean, all the jerking off and throwing.

[825] all that stuff.

[826] Is there a high point as far as all those movies you did in that stretch?

[827] You know, that movie felt like that was the end of that chapter in a way.

[828] You know, it's like they don't really like make those movies as much anymore.

[829] And so in some ways, I mean, I don't think we knew it at the time, but it did.

[830] It felt like it was the end of that chapter when I kind of look back on it.

[831] Like that was sort of that period of those films when, you know, I'm sure you know, it's like, when I first was getting going, it was like it wasn't uncommon for like a rated R movie for a studio to spend like 60, 70 million dollars on one, you know, and then like by the end of that decade, you're lucky if they'll spend like five million dollars.

[832] So it was just this period where they were letting people just do wild shit and rated our shit.

[833] And, you know, it's just not the same anymore, you know?

[834] Yeah.

[835] Yeah.

[836] Then it kind of turned right after that, right?

[837] Yeah.

[838] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[839] That's something about you that you were invited.

[840] into all these comedy circles there's little camps and you kind of just migrated back and forth between all of them and did you feel lucky about that yeah i felt completely lucky and just kind of like just grateful i mean just grateful to be able to be invited into that and to be able to participate and be able to give in the platform to say fucking wild shit and to be crazy and uh you know i love those guys i love set and evan and that whole crew i mean i had a blast working with them on all that stuff pineapple express this is the end i mean because it's the beginning of the career you like look at it and assume like every job it's like this yeah yeah and then you kind of realize how rare that was and how special that was to be a part of something like that and then i bet on some level while it's all happening you're like i love this i'm grateful i also want to be doing this like i want to be set and evan i want to be doing my thing yeah it's like you were already doing eastbound throughout all that right you know it would be like in between eastbound david would go do movies jody would go direct commercials or work on other stuff.

[841] So the acting was sort of my thing I could go do in between the times and I got to work with my buddies.

[842] And then doing it and showing up in other people's camps or other directors, it was also just like educational.

[843] It's like you're coming out of these different camps and seeing how everybody works and borrowing things that seem like the applicable to what we're doing.

[844] And just what I do with Jody and David, it's also one of those things like that stuff was like never planned out.

[845] Like we didn't plan out like, we're going to continue to make TV shows with us three, making them.

[846] It's just been this sort of organic thing that like, we're going to spend the next 14 years at HBO.

[847] Yeah, exactly.

[848] It's just kind of like it just keeps happening and none of us are tired of it and we stay busy enough with other things that it's almost just like a treat.

[849] It's fresh air to be able to step into the ring together and get to just fuck around and laugh like we used to when we were in college and just trip out on the fact that we're still able to do it.

[850] That's the actual thing that people should be super jealous of and that's the thing that delivers 10fold, right?

[851] The ability to choose who you're working with and who you're spending your life with and who you're sharing all this stuff with is like one of the most unique gifts of this whole thing.

[852] So you do four seasons of Eastbound and Down.

[853] And while you're doing it, do you get like itchy?

[854] Like, oh, I like this thing, but it's making me realize I want to do this thing.

[855] Like is it?

[856] He also just start getting in your head about, you know, like I said earlier, like I didn't really care if people thought I was Kenny Powers or not, but I didn't want to make that affect what sort of opportunities I had, you know?

[857] So I would start getting in my head as an actor suddenly, and I'm not really prepared to look at myself as an actor, so I'm in deep water that I don't really know how to navigate.

[858] And I'm just starting to notice, I'm like, all these roles I'm being offered, I never have sleeves in any of them.

[859] Like I'm like, you start zeroing in on these like traits of like, fuck, what is this?

[860] Why can't I, why can any of my fucking characters have long sleeve shirts?

[861] Why are they always have fucking cut off denim?

[862] And I was like, it'd become this thing like, I need to not show up as like the best friend that wears jean shorts.

[863] I need to like put that chapter behind me. And so what specifically when you went into vice principals where you're like, this is my chance to do X, Y or Z?

[864] With that, it was the idea of, you know, we really liked Eastbound.

[865] But what would happen with Eastbound is, you know, you would do a season.

[866] There'd be so much time in between seasons as well that like you'd go off and do another movie or something.

[867] And then you would come back for the season.

[868] And it would take such a long.

[869] time to kind of get your head back into the characters and doing it again.

[870] And then even as the seasons went on, instead of coming up with like what the best idea is, you're just trying to come up with what you haven't done before.

[871] It was making the writing harder.

[872] So we were ready just to kind of start brand new and do something different.

[873] We weren't ready to kind of like settle into the show that we wanted to like seriously commit to the next like decade of our lives or anything.

[874] We wanted to just do something different.

[875] Yeah.

[876] And so we went into HBO and like a pallet cleanser.

[877] Exactly.

[878] And that's what vice principals was.

[879] It's like we pitched it with an end and we gave them the whole entire thing.

[880] And we're like, this is all that the show is.

[881] Just these 18 episodes.

[882] That's it.

[883] We wanted to shoot it all.

[884] They were beaten out or entirely written.

[885] We wrote them all before we shot.

[886] And so we entered that process like with the whole thing, you know.

[887] Yeah, that's cool.

[888] And it was helpful for the actors.

[889] Everybody knew where it was going and what was going on.

[890] And we'd make adjustments as we shot.

[891] But yeah, it was kind of cool to go in and try something totally different.

[892] It weirdly took all this pressure off of us.

[893] Because we were following up eastbound there was this idea of like we were thinking a little too much in our heads of like whoa is this going to be too much like Kenny powers or is this character going to be is this stevie is it you know we're we're just like once again instead of like writing what was true we're sitting here trying to just like make sure it's not the same not certain things yeah we just like use that as a way of like motivating ourselves cleaning the palette and just like creating this other world with these other characters and it relieves some of that sophomore slump pressure i think Eastbound's definitely episodic.

[894] Like, I don't need to see episode four to enjoy episode seven, right?

[895] And for people don't know what episodic.

[896] And serial is like, Friends is episodic, each episode, the title of it's the thing they're going to handle that day.

[897] And then serialize is fucking house of cards.

[898] Like, you've got to see every episode.

[899] So to me, it seems like it's been inching towards and now the righteous gemstone seems very, very serialized.

[900] Very serialized.

[901] Yeah, that's a hard show to drop into in the middle, I think.

[902] But that's kind of what's exciting about it, I guess, is that it all comes back around to that idea of feeling a little lost in the world of features about being able to get that material through.

[903] The idea that suddenly you have like five hours to tell a story.

[904] Yeah.

[905] I don't know.

[906] Like you can be way more unexpected.

[907] People aren't going to see every beat coming because you're following some three -act 90 -minute structure.

[908] You can really start going out there and getting even crazier with what you're doing.

[909] Yeah, but it's a little more intimidating, isn't it as a writer?

[910] because I'm sure you're watching all these shows I am where it's like, holy shit, it added up to that and they fucking planted that there.

[911] That was amazing.

[912] Did you bring some outsider in that had some experience with a really good cereal?

[913] Did you add anyone to the mix?

[914] No, just kind of like, that's kind of always been my strong suit as like structure.

[915] Like, it's the part of writing that I've always liked the most.

[916] Oh, really?

[917] Just figuring out how something lays out.

[918] It's almost like just creating a mixtape and figuring out like where all the ups and downs are going to be and how you're going to bring it back around at the end.

[919] I've always liked that.

[920] think that's why I've been into writing for TV is that you look at those episodes and you just like, to me, I just, I see like a weird beautiful mind Venn diagram where I'm just like trying to connect all these dots.

[921] Do you use a boarding cards?

[922] What do you?

[923] I use index cards usually is what I do is I'll just like beat things out.

[924] But then we'll start writing and we'll, we'll beat out the index cards enough to give us confidence that like it's heading somewhere.

[925] And then we'll just start writing and then just do it.

[926] And then it completely changes with every episode you write.

[927] because you like identify potential runners and stuff exactly or payouts like general arcs for characters or what you kind of want to build to who's going to be the bad guy who's going to like have some redemption you know just like these general ideas yeah and then as you kind of start writing it they start to reveal which ones work and which ones don't and then the other pattern that seems to be emerging is that visually you're spending more time on it visually is that accurate yeah for sure like with this i feel like part of the scope of the show was like need it to make the world feel real 100%, you know, like I wanted these guys to feel like they really, like they're good at being Televangelis and they really do have real success.

[928] And I just thought it would make the comedy of the stuff that they were doing just seem that much crazier that they like have this gigantic audience.

[929] And I didn't want it to be like, they're the most successful Televangelist family.

[930] And then we shoot it on some shitty stage in a community theater that doesn't really look like it has scope, you know.

[931] Oh, God.

[932] I think it's everything.

[933] It's like, yeah, in Godfather, if they're at a pizzeria the whole time making, calling shots versus you go to that house in Lake Tahoe and you're like, oh, these they're like old money shit.

[934] This is the real thing.

[935] Yeah.

[936] Yeah, and the scope of your show is like huge, those houses.

[937] Is that stuff all in North Carolina or South Carolina?

[938] Yeah, it was all in Charleston.

[939] Oh, it is.

[940] Yeah, so we shot all around there and the church, the megachurch, it's the Coliseum in North Charleston.

[941] That's where we built that church.

[942] And it was really funny because when we were in the, when we were in production, you know, we had to push all of that stuff in the megachurch to the very end of the season because the ice hockey team is like playing in there.

[943] And then it was like the ice hockey team like made the playoffs.

[944] And if they suddenly went any further, our production would be fucked up.

[945] So we weren't rooting against the local hockey team.

[946] And probably something you told HBO like there's no worry.

[947] The hockey team is not like they're going to go.

[948] This is a hockey team in South Carolina.

[949] Nobody here plays hockey and they kicked ass that season.

[950] Now I remember reading, I guess this was probably like 10, 12 years ago that the Charlotte Hornets Arena had been sold to some evangelists.

[951] Do you remember that?

[952] That does sound familiar.

[953] They had 20 some thousand people attending that service on Sundays.

[954] And I was, that's kind of when I started getting fascinated with it and then finding out like, oh, these dudes have private jets.

[955] Oh, yeah.

[956] Some of these, like we looked up, um, the, uh, Joel Olstein or something.

[957] What was it, Rob?

[958] He's doing 45 ,000 with, yeah, yeah, 45 ,000 parishioners a week are coming through.

[959] That's absolutely insane.

[960] Isn't that's crazy?

[961] I mean, it is a, if the guys who can do it, I mean, it's an insane.

[962] business model.

[963] It's like a hundred million dollar kind of.

[964] Tax free.

[965] Tax free.

[966] God bless.

[967] And you grew up Baptist?

[968] I did.

[969] I grew up going to a Baptist church.

[970] My parents were both like really involved in the church.

[971] My mom did puppet ministry.

[972] She like would minister to the children with puppets.

[973] And so I watched all of that stuff like for years.

[974] I was like, we always live in the church.

[975] And I never liked going.

[976] When I was a kid, I would like pretend like I was sleeping as the family got up for church, just like hoping that they would have forgotten about me and that like it would be too late for me to get a shower and get dressed and they would let me stay home but that never worked one time is it safe for me to assume you're not a practitioner of any religion our like adventure with religion was like you know we went hardcore i mean like we were there all the time my parents were so involved in it and then my parents got divorced when i was in sixth grade and my dad kind of ran out on us and suddenly it was like here's my mom who works in a department store at the mall she's got two kids we're living in an apartment and you're thinking like you know maybe this church that we've donated all this time to will be supportive and instead they the people there like basically like turn their back on my mom they shamed her for getting a divorce and so you know i was little i was i think i was in sixth grade when this happened but i can remember like seeing my mom and like knowing how much the church meant to her and now she just didn't even feel like she could enter the church and so for a few months she still would drop me and my sister off at church on sundays to go and we did it and then after a few months.

[977] It was kind of like, what are we doing?

[978] Like, why are we going to this place every Sunday?

[979] Like, it's not, you know, it's done.

[980] And then we just never went back.

[981] And then that was kind of of the end of it.

[982] And I remember distinctly having like mixed feelings about that, even at that age, where I dread it going to church.

[983] I hate it sitting in those sermons for an hour, not being able to do anything and having to just sit there and listen and just like draw all pictures.

[984] So uncomfortable.

[985] So uncomfortable.

[986] But then that feeling that you would have when it was over and just knowing that like, yes, the whole day's ahead.

[987] And then there was, like, when we stopped going, I had this weird, like, I kind of missed it.

[988] Like, I kind of missed being forced to do something I didn't want to do for an hour.

[989] And I, and when I could suddenly just sleep in on Sunday mornings, Sundays, like that afternoon, Sunday wasn't quite as special anymore.

[990] Yeah, it's like we as a species have this kind of implicit desire to repent.

[991] Like, you want to go somewhere and then be like, yeah, I suffered and now I can stop hating myself.

[992] eating the shit out of myself i did it now i'm good for two days yeah yeah there's some aspect of that that i did like about it now the thing i i wanted to do years ago was did you do you remember the power team did you ever oh yeah they would like you saw them they would like rip telephone books and half they'd handcuff monica the power team would go like fire up churches they were like a basically a touring road group and they were all these musselmen they would handcuff each other together and they couldn't get out and then they would recite some scripture and then they fucking guy would jump up and kick the other guy in the chest and they would break the handcuffs and like the power of the lord was obvious and present and i even as an eight year old i'm not seeing the connection between the lord this is a good deal here phone book in half and then even better is these guys most of them were ex well they claimed ex steroid and cocaine abusers and they'd give their whole life story as a testimony to like look how good life is now that i found the lord and they would be like, I was doing 14 ounces of cocaine a week, and they'd get a little too dark to church youth groups.

[993] And then they would fucking, like, one of the ways they'd demonstrate the power of the Lord is they'd just break chairs over each other's backs.

[994] I mean, none of it made sense.

[995] And I desperately wanted to do a show about being a power team member and like still being gacked up and shit.

[996] But funny enough, when I had that idea, I was with Jimmy Miller for like, I don't know, a year maybe he was my manager.

[997] and I was like, he's like, I love it, but he's like, I don't, religion, I don't know, good luck, you know, like selling something about religion still dicey.

[998] And do you feel like it's, like, there just really has, I mean, I guess there was big love, but certainly there had to be talks.

[999] Like, are they allowed to tackle this?

[1000] You know, who knows what happened?

[1001] I mean, people get outraged or anything.

[1002] So, I mean, I'm not fearful of people like being outraged.

[1003] But there's a part of me where, you know, I kind of understand in some ways while there is an outcry, sometimes in Hollywood tackles, religion.

[1004] And I thought I was like watching anything I could have like, well, who else has tried to tackle space in here?

[1005] I think they make the mistake of like they like make a joke out of what people believe in.

[1006] Yeah.

[1007] And I feel like that is just like kind of obnoxious.

[1008] And it's like that would piss me off.

[1009] If it's like someone who doesn't understand where I come from or what I believe.

[1010] Or the value it's adding to my life.

[1011] Like I think that that is wrong to do.

[1012] So I think with this show, it's like we don't, we're not trying to say anything about what you should believe in and what you shouldn't believe in.

[1013] We're not trying to comment on the Bible.

[1014] we're commenting on these like hypocrites who are basically fronting this operation and like basing all their their value on like these morals and these ideals but then not adhering to any of them themselves you know yes that's very obvious right when you start watching it's the validity of the bible or god or that version of it's not on trial at all it's just these people that have clearly manipulated these this text exactly yeah and i i totally agree it's like i am an atheist but I have zero interest in trying to prove to someone that they don't believe the right thing.

[1015] I'm like, if someone's happy doing X, Y, or Z, I'm super happy for them.

[1016] That's how I believe, too, yeah.

[1017] You know, what I'm curious about is just the town that I live in.

[1018] Like, I love Charleston.

[1019] I really love being a part of that community.

[1020] It's called the Holy City, you know.

[1021] Oh, it is?

[1022] Yeah, and like, there's downtown, there's no buildings taller than the church steeples.

[1023] Like, you go outside, and there's, like, churches, like, every mile, you know?

[1024] On the radio station, it's like, every other station is a religious.

[1025] legislation.

[1026] Religion pays a big part in the lives of people there.

[1027] So I am curious of I'll still be able to like go to restaurants and stuff.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] After the show comes out.

[1030] I was trying for moments of the show.

[1031] I'm like, just imagine right now that I am super, that is my book and I believe in all that and I'm watching it.

[1032] I still definitely think you're allowing those people to feel in on the joke that they're not at all being made from them, which they're not.

[1033] It's not like you're panning to the audience and going like, look these idiots gobbling up this bullshit.

[1034] It's never really about that.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] And that was important to do.

[1037] I mean, you know, my mom is still religious.

[1038] I have like my sister's religious.

[1039] My aunt is a minister in Atlanta.

[1040] So like a lot of my family is still very much involved with church.

[1041] And so they were always in the back of my head.

[1042] Not that they all like what I do anyway.

[1043] Right.

[1044] But the idea was like, you know, I understand them.

[1045] They all have wicked senses of humor.

[1046] And they believe what they believe i want to make something that they would even understand where this is coming i almost think it could be more funny for them yeah i think so too they would identify they i think that there's more truth there than uh than what people would think yeah it's it's absolutely incredible i can't wait to consume all of it so you moved down there we said that i mean again you had your own desires to go do that and then obviously it was motivated by kids and stuff what's your anonymity level down there man you'd be really surprised it's been like absolutely incredible incredible, I will say.

[1047] Really?

[1048] Yeah, it's been amazing.

[1049] Because, you know, when you first get there, I think people are just genuinely excited that you're there and that you're part of the community.

[1050] And I think, and then after you've been there for a few months, then, like, people feel a little bit of ownership over you in the sense that, like, they don't want people to, like, bother you.

[1051] They're protective.

[1052] Yeah, I find that all the time.

[1053] That's nice.

[1054] And the people have just been awesome, to tell you the truth.

[1055] It's just been such a cool place to live.

[1056] And I was really, I wasn't, you know, everything was going fine for me out here.

[1057] I have a lot of lot of friends here.

[1058] The weather's great.

[1059] But I just found myself that like when I wasn't working, I really didn't know what the fuck to do with myself.

[1060] And once kids were getting involved, it just became so much like harder to figure out like how to just have an existence.

[1061] It's like, well, we can go to Griffith Park together and we can arrange a play date with someone who lives 40 minutes away from here.

[1062] Everything just became so scheduled and kind of like we were just bending over backwards to kind of find some kind of normalcy.

[1063] And then I got there.

[1064] And it's just been so grounded and normal and fun.

[1065] My kids like walk out our front door and get on bikes and just like cruise down the road.

[1066] How old are they?

[1067] My son's seven, my daughter's four.

[1068] And it's like it's just awesome.

[1069] And then, you know, I also feel like it puts in perspective of the career too.

[1070] Like when I was here, I would drive it on the road and I would see billboards and it would make me stressed out about like, fuck, it's been a while since I've been on one of those.

[1071] I need to get to work, you know?

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] And then there, you kind of realize like none of this shit really matters that much.

[1074] It's like, get really in our heads about it and it's important to do your best at what you want to do but you don't need to eat sleep yeah yeah like even when you make something that doesn't work it's like no one here's keeping tally of that these people are just living their lives and working if you never worked again it would be very fucking impressive as it should be yeah you know like I don't know it's good to keep that perspective it makes you not feel beat yourself up so much about the stuff that doesn't work and the stuff that does and is the four year old I have a four year old daughter and it's getting outrageously fun right now because her fucking personality is like driving.

[1075] Yeah, yep.

[1076] Is she funny?

[1077] She's so funny.

[1078] She's the funniest.

[1079] I mean, like, they just got in last night here.

[1080] They flew in separately from me because I had to come early.

[1081] And so my wife and my son and my daughter got here.

[1082] They were here for like two minutes.

[1083] I had like 12 hours of press yesterday.

[1084] I just got home.

[1085] They entered.

[1086] My wife left something downstairs in the car.

[1087] So she had to go down there.

[1088] And within like two minutes, my daughter like pissed on the couch.

[1089] And my son took like a football size.

[1090] shit in the toilet and clogged it.

[1091] And I'm just trying like, oh, it's so good to see you guys.

[1092] Yeah.

[1093] Yeah, thanks for reminding me of my primary purpose immediately.

[1094] I'm just cleaning up after you guys.

[1095] Well, Danny.

[1096] Wait, wait, wait, sorry.

[1097] I wanted to say one thing.

[1098] I thought maybe you were going to bring it up.

[1099] When you were on Sam Jones, one thing that we talked about a lot after because we both loved that episode was you were talking about reviews and how reviews are kind of bullshit and you kind of delineated comedy versus.

[1100] is drama in a really, I thought, profound way, but it's math and comedy's so specific because you have to, like, write a joke, then we'll pay off three scenes later, and everyone thinks you're just kind of looking in the mirror and doing funny faces, and it's so not that.

[1101] It's not.

[1102] I feel like it is the hardest of all to do, because, I mean, if you sit in a theater when people watching a drama, no one's reacting, you're not assuming that the movie's not working.

[1103] You're just like, oh, these people, you know, they're feeling it.

[1104] And you're in a comedy.

[1105] And if it's like, if you're in there for five, six, seven, eight minutes and nobody's laughing, it just makes the whole thing implode.

[1106] It feels like a failure.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] Yeah, you're in a ditch you got to climb out of it.

[1109] Also, there's no tricks in comedy.

[1110] I can't put the perfect song with the right push in and blah, blah, blah, and make the emotion happen with these other devices.

[1111] It has to just work.

[1112] But I mean, it's funny.

[1113] Even just doing press.

[1114] It's like doing press for Halloween or Alien or this.

[1115] They just don't give comedy any respect at all.

[1116] They don't, like, Those things are so easy doing a press junker for something that's not a comedy.

[1117] It's like they work harder on the questions.

[1118] They have more respect for what it is.

[1119] And then with comedy, you feel like a lot of times you come in with those reporters.

[1120] And they're like disgusted by you.

[1121] Just like, ugh.

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] You can fake a drama.

[1124] You just really can't fake a comedy.

[1125] It's not going to happen.

[1126] All right.

[1127] I adore you.

[1128] I sure hope you'll come back.

[1129] Thanks for having.

[1130] This has been awesome.

[1131] All right.

[1132] Good luck.

[1133] Everyone watch The Righteous Gemstone.

[1134] I can't.

[1135] We're watching more of it tonight.

[1136] It's so fucking good.

[1137] All right.

[1138] Bye.

[1139] And now my favorite part of the show, The Fact Check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1140] Do you hear that?

[1141] Is that your nicotine spray?

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] You got some.

[1144] Three days off dip, girl.

[1145] Wow.

[1146] I'm on the spray now.

[1147] Okay.

[1148] Well, in a couple episodes, people will hear when you learned about it.

[1149] Yes, yes.

[1150] We're a little out of order.

[1151] More importantly, I would like to welcome everyone to one of our first moonlight fact checks.

[1152] We all worked today.

[1153] I had a long day.

[1154] here we are after nightfall in the attic and I like it the windows are open you might hear some crickets or some grasshoppers fireflies we've heard a lot of helicopters some hot rods couple dirt bikes do you think fireflies make noise no I don't think they do the sound of their light turning on and off tiny sound of their light turning on and off do you think it sounds like a light switch or like in a movie when a light bulb comes on it's like yeah it's like that oh okay yeah Okay, great.

[1155] So keep your ears peeled.

[1156] I'll tell you who's hearing a lot of those fireflies is Daniel McBride.

[1157] Because he's down there in South Carolina.

[1158] Oh, my God.

[1159] Heaven.

[1160] Home of the lightning bug.

[1161] That's right.

[1162] What were you called?

[1163] Firefly.

[1164] I guess you can go either way.

[1165] You can go lightning bug or firefly.

[1166] Yeah.

[1167] I wonder if it's regional.

[1168] I said lightning bug.

[1169] What did you say?

[1170] I guess I said firefly because that's what came out naturally.

[1171] Sure.

[1172] It was very natural.

[1173] Very organic.

[1174] Do you like your spray?

[1175] I do like my spray.

[1176] Really?

[1177] Do you feel like it gives you the same, whatever you know what it does is it prevents me from being agitated but no it doesn't give me the same kick in the ass that a big lipful of the haggen did but what about the mints was it the same as the mints well the mints you know fuck up my skin so I can't take those I like the mints more because they're dissolving for 20 minutes so my assumption is oh I'm getting nicotine the whole 20 minutes the gum I don't know where to put the gum I start chewing it I'm like is the nicotine gone after a minute you know you chew a piece like a hubba bubba yes and the flavor can be gone well I don't want to talk to urgently.

[1178] Well, look, all gums.

[1179] You run out a flavor quick.

[1180] All of them.

[1181] Hubba, Bubba.

[1182] Trident.

[1183] B. B. B. Oral.

[1184] B. No. Horogil.

[1185] No. What's the one with the O?

[1186] Orbit.

[1187] Orbit.

[1188] Thank you.

[1189] Thank you.

[1190] And you and I are kind of partial to bubble gum flavor.

[1191] Yeah, the pink flavor.

[1192] Oh, that's nice.

[1193] I kind of want to try it.

[1194] Oh, this?

[1195] You can.

[1196] You want to try it?

[1197] No, I'm scared of it.

[1198] A little high wrist.

[1199] Try for the first time.

[1200] I've never had nicotine in my life.

[1201] Ever?

[1202] I don't think so.

[1203] I've never smoked a cigarette.

[1204] What about when you drank out of my spit cup?

[1205] Sorry.

[1206] I did not do that.

[1207] You did that.

[1208] I drank out of your spit cup.

[1209] Not a trigger warning.

[1210] Still a trigger warning, actually way grosser.

[1211] We don't need to get into it.

[1212] I didn't care.

[1213] Had phlegmon there's where it gets gross.

[1214] Well, they used that word.

[1215] No, everyone knows if you have a spit cup what the contents are.

[1216] Did you know, Rob?

[1217] I didn't know that this one.

[1218] Oh, I stand corrected.

[1219] Real -time fact check.

[1220] I guess I'll try it on a low -risk moment.

[1221] Yeah, somewhere where you know you can, if necessary, lie down and take five.

[1222] That makes me scared.

[1223] I don't recommend it.

[1224] Really?

[1225] No, I don't.

[1226] I'll tell you what.

[1227] I can remember having my first cigarette on my buddy J. Rob's driveway.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] I had them in junior high, but I don't think I was really inhaling.

[1230] But in 10th grade, I banged back Marlore Red.

[1231] And I was like, oh, this doesn't feel that.

[1232] good and then 20 minutes later i wanted another one and then it starts feeling good because you want it yeah but the actual feeling itself is not good it's not a great it's not a great buzz it's not a quality buzz okay of all the buzzes i promote this is low on the list and the one you're most addicted to yeah yeah anyway fireflies fireflies south carolina daniel daniel is so cool yeah he's all I want him to be my friend.

[1233] Oh, what about your boyfriend?

[1234] I mean, I know he's married, but in a world, but in a world where he's not married, and he doesn't have kids.

[1235] It's hard for me to do that.

[1236] Yeah, I'm not going to try to put you in that position.

[1237] Thanks.

[1238] I would date him.

[1239] I'll tell you that right now.

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] He's so chill, huh?

[1242] Yeah, he was cool.

[1243] We love him, huh?

[1244] Yeah.

[1245] We're kind of like.

[1246] Obsess of that.

[1247] Yeah, the fond.

[1248] We think he's the Fons.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] I just want him to like, like us and call us and text us and put him.

[1251] us in his whole shit.

[1252] I know.

[1253] Do you know I did the most embarrassing thing?

[1254] I hesitate to admit it on here.

[1255] What?

[1256] Well, I was finishing up righteous gemstones.

[1257] Uh -huh.

[1258] And what I didn't talk about in this episode, which I was so pissed about, is the music is so great.

[1259] And I'm really obsessed with music and movies.

[1260] I think it's maybe the most important thing for me. So I was finishing up the righteous gemstones.

[1261] And here's what I did.

[1262] This is so embarrassing.

[1263] Oh, my God.

[1264] I'm so nervous.

[1265] I emailed him.

[1266] again okay yeah again and i said hey you know hey bro hey cool guy uh fucking love the music wait wait to this turn you're gonna be you're gonna have chills i go oh my god the music's so good blah blah i mean uh and i go into like what you know what what what i like about is it's stanky it's fucking stanky it's like dirty and i said it would pair well with cocaine and whiskey and then i said and i owned it i said i'm embarrassed to say this but i really want you to see hit and run because the music just the music I want you to see that we have the same musical taste I really need him to think we have something in common isn't that isn't that I hit send and I immediately if I could have hit delete and taking it away I would have that button by the way that's crazy that they don't in 2019 well it's oh they do and Gmail if you go on the on the browser unsend it has undo for a little little bit.

[1267] You might have to activate it though.

[1268] Oh.

[1269] I'm going to look into that.

[1270] I could see where this though would be a tricky slope for some people that I could see people spending their whole life's writing and deleting emails.

[1271] That's true.

[1272] Because all of us get a little pang of you know we're begging someone to watch something we made.

[1273] Yeah.

[1274] Most people know about that.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] Yeah.

[1278] So they can see that I have cool musical taste.

[1279] No, but people can relate to wanting other people to like you and doing some extreme things to get people's approval.

[1280] Did he respond?

[1281] He did.

[1282] Super cool.

[1283] Yeah, man, I'll check that out.

[1284] I mean, didn't even ignore it.

[1285] I was like, here's what he's going to do.

[1286] He's going to read it and he's going to ignore it because how do you even respond to that?

[1287] Cool, dude.

[1288] I'll check out your movie.

[1289] Really what I wanted to say was like, just get the soundtrack.

[1290] Okay.

[1291] That's even weirder.

[1292] I don't even know if this soundtrack is available.

[1293] I don't know if my movie has a soundtrack or what.

[1294] I'm sure it does.

[1295] And I don't want you to be embarrassed.

[1296] Okay.

[1297] I don't like it when you're embarrassed.

[1298] But.

[1299] No, no, but.

[1300] I don't want you to be embarrassed.

[1301] And it's okay.

[1302] He liked you.

[1303] I don't know, though, did he?

[1304] Yeah, but I don't.

[1305] Okay, here's what I want.

[1306] I want him, of course he liked me, fine.

[1307] But I want him to connect on a deeper level where he's like, ooh, we have the same stanky rhythm.

[1308] I know.

[1309] We like that naughty music.

[1310] I know.

[1311] You know?

[1312] I know.

[1313] But you want him to just find it organically.

[1314] But I'm afraid he's not going to.

[1315] Why would he ever take the time to watch that movie?

[1316] I know he might not.

[1317] He might not ever do it.

[1318] I don't expect him to at all.

[1319] No, I mean, well now, now he's probably like, oh, God.

[1320] I got to watch it and then I got to email him back.

[1321] By the way, hit and run is an incredible.

[1322] movie so if he watches it he'll like it and the music is fantastic which i didn't write the music so it's not even like you know what i don't even know what i'm bragging about i'm not even bragging i really just wanted to know we have the same taste of music okay yes and i'll just be honest that's the problem you're not bragging but it is bragging it's like up against the line it could come off braggy yeah yeah he's being very gracious with me so far because i've had a few emails and i need to just stop now.

[1323] Maybe I just send him one more and say, I'm not going to send him one and says I'll no longer be initiating.

[1324] I'm not going to initiate any more communication with you.

[1325] I'll take your lead.

[1326] I'm going to download the unsend button.

[1327] This makes me like him even more.

[1328] That he was gracious with my unsolicited request that he bond with me on music.

[1329] It's cute.

[1330] It's cute.

[1331] You want him to like you so bad.

[1332] I really do.

[1333] I do.

[1334] I'm not even asking to be in his shit.

[1335] I mean, I would love.

[1336] I am.

[1337] I would love to.

[1338] But I just want to, you know, sit on the porch with them.

[1339] Maybe start dipping again.

[1340] No. What?

[1341] You just.

[1342] Sorry, I'm over it.

[1343] You know, just relax and in Charleston.

[1344] Do you hear me panicked saying Charleston?

[1345] I always want to say Charlotte.

[1346] C -H -R.

[1347] I get that.

[1348] And then where was the white nationalist demonstration?

[1349] Charlottville.

[1350] Charlottesville.

[1351] Charlottesville.

[1352] So those three together give me tremendous anxiety.

[1353] That is a lot to balance.

[1354] For more than one reason, obviously.

[1355] Well, definitely the Charlottesville situation.

[1356] Okay, so you know what?

[1357] If I have a boy, I'm going to put him in karate.

[1358] Oh, because you've heard a couple good stories now.

[1359] Yeah, all these cool people did karate.

[1360] And then they end up cool.

[1361] And comfortable in their own skin.

[1362] Yes.

[1363] That's kind of the things that those two Seth and he have in common.

[1364] That's right.

[1365] Did we figure it out?

[1366] I think we just cracked the code.

[1367] They're selling themselves as like a self -defense program.

[1368] That should not be what they're advertising.

[1369] You want to be chill in your own exoskeleton?

[1370] Confident.

[1371] Chill as fuck.

[1372] Hilarious.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] Do karate.

[1375] Actually, they are both gracious.

[1376] Seth is also really, really generous.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] It's no wonder they're friends and work together.

[1379] Yeah, makes sense.

[1380] Okay, so Land of the Lost.

[1381] And he said no one liked it.

[1382] But.

[1383] You found some people that like that.

[1384] liked it?

[1385] 68 .8 million.

[1386] I mean, the budget was a hundred.

[1387] So it's not great.

[1388] Yeah, I mean, look.

[1389] But that's still kind of a lot nowadays.

[1390] Absolutely.

[1391] Again, any movie I've been on the poster of did not make 66 million.

[1392] So that's a good number.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] But again, I think it was Will Farrell had had like, I don't know, nine, $20 million openers in a row or something and that underperformed.

[1395] For him.

[1396] Sure.

[1397] That's a problem when you become the greatest.

[1398] Bar is high.

[1399] That's true.

[1400] There's nowhere to go but down.

[1401] Mm -hmm.

[1402] I feel so bad for the people at the top.

[1403] I do.

[1404] Well, no. Depends.

[1405] I can feel bad for some of their stuff.

[1406] Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[1407] But they do have a lot of money and are doing great.

[1408] I feel all kinds of bad stuff for them, but maybe just not a ton of sadness over career hiccups.

[1409] That's fair.

[1410] Just career.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] Yeah.

[1413] I mean, I want them to win.

[1414] Don't get me wrong.

[1415] I want welfare to win.

[1416] Every time he's up to bat, I want him to hit a grand slam.

[1417] Sure.

[1418] But if he doesn't hit a grand slam, big a walk.

[1419] It's not that big of a deal.

[1420] That's true.

[1421] Stakes are not all that high.

[1422] No. Sure it feels like it to him, though.

[1423] Yeah, of course.

[1424] So I thought it was interesting because he said that they thought Fisfit Way, they thought they were like kind of making like a Scorsese or an Altman film or something.

[1425] Yes, yeah.

[1426] Which I've never seen it.

[1427] Oh, you haven't?

[1428] No. I mean, I've seen parts and.

[1429] clips and you'll love it definitely worth owning on iTunes okay I will anyway I just thought that was interesting because you just don't know what your thing is sometimes you don't you often try to make something one thing and then it goes through your filter and it becomes its own thing yeah yeah yeah I like that I think it's cool I'm gonna download it so Crimson Tide Quentin Tarantino wrote some of that did a did a punch up I think yeah He rewrote some of the dialogue, and his main section, yeah, was the Silver Surfer speech.

[1430] Oh, okay.

[1431] Do you know what that is?

[1432] You hit me with it.

[1433] Okay, should I read the whole thing?

[1434] Well, how long is it?

[1435] Kind of long.

[1436] All right, let's hear it.

[1437] No, it's okay.

[1438] I won't.

[1439] But it's about Silver Surfer.

[1440] I don't know what that is, Silver Surfer.

[1441] That's a cartoon character.

[1442] Oh, okay.

[1443] Superhero.

[1444] I guess two people were in a fight.

[1445] And then the officer brought one of the other guys in.

[1446] Gene Hackman probably brought in Denzel Washington.

[1447] Okay.

[1448] And then is scolding him about the fight, but then they're also talking about Silver Surfer.

[1449] It does sound very Tarantino.

[1450] Yes.

[1451] And then there was a whole thing we touched on it in the episode.

[1452] There was this whole thing about it got racial between the two of them.

[1453] Yeah, but I didn't see that.

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] So Gene Hackman basically says, do you know of these horses?

[1456] They're the greatest horses in the world.

[1457] blah, blah, blah, and they're all white.

[1458] Eish.

[1459] Yeah, and Denzel says, yeah, I do know those horses.

[1460] You know, they're born black.

[1461] Also, very Tarantino.

[1462] Yeah, very Tarantino.

[1463] Yeah, very Tarantino.

[1464] Yeah, honey -who.

[1465] So, he said his wife's uncle is Cheech Marin.

[1466] That's Cheech and Chong.

[1467] Cheech and Chong.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] Up in smoke.

[1470] I didn't know who was talking about until I thought about it later, and I was like, oh, clearly.

[1471] Cheech and Chong, but I was like, Cheech Marin, I don't know what that is.

[1472] Ah, and of course, you know what Cheech and Chong is, but I can't imagine you ever seen any Cheech and Chong.

[1473] I mean, the whole movie's about weed, and they even, like, they drive a van, I think, in one of the films that's entirely made of marijuana.

[1474] Wow.

[1475] Yeah.

[1476] Before it was legal, way before.

[1477] Way back.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] So I think it's the original key stoner comedy.

[1480] Yeah.

[1481] Mm -hmm.

[1482] So you said you thought the Charlotte Horn, it's a. Charlotte callback sold to some evangelist group it wasn't Charlotte it was the Houston Rockets oh okay and became Lakewood church which is Joel Austen's also it's Austin it's not Olstein no come on I typed that in and that was wrong but I also thought it was Joel Austin yeah fuck that sounds wrong I know those Joel Olsteen all the way I know go rockets so he You said, like, you thought he had 45 ,000 parishioners a week and $100 million, whatever.

[1483] So he is seen by over 7 million viewers weekly.

[1484] Wow.

[1485] And over 20 million monthly and over 100 countries.

[1486] Wow.

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] Wow.

[1489] He is crushing.

[1490] He's the pastor of Lakewood Church, the former home of the NBA Houston Rockets.

[1491] Crazy, right?

[1492] Do you get a net worth on this turkey?

[1493] No. I guess they got to hide it all right I don't think they can yeah because it's all text they're probably not saying how much they're keeping right much they're a lot I got a hunch they're living high on the hog that's my guess I would guess so without any kind of paper trail facts yeah it says 40 to 60 million that sounds light to me yeah that sounds real light his house is worth 10 .5 million oh yeah definitely more than that then yeah unless he's a spendthrift he could be like me yeah easy come easy go yeah in one pocket out the other that is all that was it yeah well i'm going to do the chicken dance on main street oh you're that's going to be your thing yeah okay great end every episode now by doing the chicken dance on main street harold was a kitty but now he's a full grown cat all right love you love you follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1494] You can listen to every episode of Armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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