Liam Payne Opens Up About His Darkest Moments, Failed Relationships & Entrepreneurship

[0] There are very few people, maybe just the five of them, on planet Earth, that have gone through what my next guest has gone through over the last decade.

[1] Very, very few people on planet Earth that can tell you the stories he can tell you and talk to you about the lessons he's learnt.

[2] Liam Payne is a miraculous, inspiring, complex, very honest, very vulnerable, very open book.

[3] Today he's going to tell you about things that he probably shouldn't say and topics that he probably shouldn't talk about.

[4] But just imagine.

[5] Imagine being catapulted into stardom at 14 years old and becoming what many consider to be the modern day Beatles.

[6] He toured the world with one direction.

[7] They had their ups, their downs, their mental health crises, their scandals, their relationships and everything in between.

[8] You know, if I was 16 years old and you asked me, what I wanted to be.

[9] If I could, you know, dream up my life, I'd probably say professional football player, or being in a boy band and traveling the world, seems like a life that we'd all give everything to have.

[10] But what you're going to hear today is very different.

[11] And it might just change your mind.

[12] It certainly changed mine.

[13] So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is the Dyer of a CEO.

[14] I hope nobody's listening.

[15] But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

[16] Liam, crazy, crazy year society all of us have had with this whole lockdown situation.

[17] The place I wanted to start is just to ask how it's been for you.

[18] It has been interesting.

[19] I feel like I got the lockdown, the first depressive part of lockdown a lot later than everybody else because our work went through the roof.

[20] And basically, it was interesting because I had to learn styling, makeup, hair, all these things that I wouldn't usually do when I'm with my team and I lost everyone because you couldn't have anyone close contact.

[21] So I just had me and a camera guy that was staying with me. So every job was like, I mean, we even had one day where we set up our own green screen and we set the green screen up from 1pm until 10 and then recorded till 5 o 'clock in the morning.

[22] So it was like a whole day.

[23] So we were busier than ever.

[24] And then we started doing these online shows, which went really great with a company called VEPS, which was good.

[25] And then I stopped working, which I thought was going to be really good for me because I was tired.

[26] And it was actually the worst thing in the world for me. When you say you stopped working, describe your day at that point?

[27] I mean, I was just finding myself on the sofa for the whole day, just watching random Netflix.

[28] I've seen everything on Netflix.

[29] On your own?

[30] No, my partner was there at the time.

[31] Okay.

[32] Yeah.

[33] It was wild.

[34] And it was dark because you can't really go anywhere.

[35] You don't really know what you're doing.

[36] And I felt like my career was kind of in a funny place at that point as well, and how I was agreeable with it at that time as well, if that makes sense.

[37] Are you the type of person that needs to be kept busy?

[38] I think so.

[39] I think I've had a crash course this last year in learning to have my own time.

[40] Because I mean, you imagine from about the age of 16, 17, we're day sheet every day.

[41] So when you don't have a day sheet, it's like, what the hell do I do?

[42] And then the other part of it's like you don't really learn what you enjoy from that point either.

[43] So it was that that was quite difficult in lockdown because you have so much time to yourself.

[44] And then it was like, I saw something the other day about toxic productivity.

[45] Did you see this?

[46] Obviously, they've got a new ism for everything.

[47] But it actually may tend to me. If I'm not doing something that's productive, but I feel like I'm going backwards.

[48] So then I'm trying to make, I'm trying to force moves.

[49] And I suppose that was one of the things I think I learned most about myself.

[50] I don't have to be doing something every day to feel good about myself.

[51] Where does that come from?

[52] Do you think that need to feel like you're moving forward or it feels like backward motion?

[53] I have no idea.

[54] I think I'm just quite driven in that sense.

[55] Have you always been like that since before?

[56] One direction.

[57] You know, I think we just always worked.

[58] Like I started, I was first on TV at 14.

[59] So that's young.

[60] It was 20, which I think at that point was like 20 million people, which was wild.

[61] So I was like 14 years old.

[62] So from then on, my life's just been like doing the same thing over and over and over again up until this point.

[63] So I don't know, at times you fall out of love with it.

[64] And I think that they're trying to find, you know, and also you're not under any impression this isn't going to stop at some point.

[65] Like a life.

[66] span for an average pop star i've been outlived most life spans with that sort of thing which has been amazing really really cool and i think part of that's probably from starting so young but you know it's going to end at some point so you always want to find something else that you're good at so it's kind of safety cushioning you almost this is what investing has been my god sending that because i started that really young as well and trying to think about how i would do this or how i would do that asking like you know like our old managers and people like that what they invest in and stuff about that, which kind of makes me feel safer.

[67] And does that, that comes from a play, like, mild paranoia that this might go someday, right?

[68] 100%.

[69] It's like doomsday prophesising, you know?

[70] Do you worry a lot, generally?

[71] I think I did up until the last few months.

[72] I mean, having a lot of time at home, I think a lot of people had this same sort of thing.

[73] Alcohol.

[74] It was just really, it was getting earlier and earlier.

[75] easier and easier to go to.

[76] And for me, I don't know, I think there's a slight little bit of social anxiety as well in it, that, you know, it was already hard sometimes to go out places for the thought that you might like, pat or whatever.

[77] You know, there's always that extra level of stress.

[78] So for me, I've always been quite withdrawn.

[79] So talking about lockdown, so you go through that sort of depressive period, I think we all went through that.

[80] And I think for me, what I kept thinking about is like, if you just go with the lockdown, you're like someone like me would just probably like hang around bed on my laptop what i had to do was like proactively steve get up and do something today go put your shoes on motherfucker you know what mean but then the thing what i found about that was sometimes you ain't superman and you're going to have a bad day and my thing is if i don't set out when i'm aiming to do that day then i become more depressive if that makes sense but it's just like i think the main thing for me i mean i've always called it like a small victories thing and that's why i love the gym because if i've at least been to the gym that day than I've done something.

[81] But then I started to like branch that out more that it was call a family member.

[82] You know, I spent some time with my son, make sure I get FaceTiming, because it was hard because the first point of it.

[83] We couldn't see each of it then.

[84] It was the longest happens in my son in a long time, which was difficult.

[85] But then it was like, as long as I've done one of those things in the day, then it doesn't matter if I didn't do anything else.

[86] And it's like what I found more than anything, and this with alcohol, with other stuff, it's like boundaries.

[87] There were no boundaries.

[88] So, you know, if you're on Zoom, you can quite easily hide that you might be a little bit tipsy at the point you shouldn't be.

[89] So it was like creating your own boundaries, creating your own routines.

[90] And that's where I think everybody struggled the most without routine.

[91] And I noticed you had a dog here.

[92] Yeah.

[93] Which at the moment, that's one of my things I think I'm definitely going to get a dog because I need routine.

[94] I need it.

[95] So you start, you start drinking more and more during the lockdown.

[96] You realize you're aware.

[97] Oh, I put on so much weight.

[98] I was eating badly and kind of describing it as a balking period.

[99] It was a dirty bulk.

[100] Don't worry about it.

[101] It's intentional.

[102] I'm doing it for a movie role.

[103] It's all good.

[104] Yeah, that's the best new, new excuse.

[105] If anyone else, you put weight, yes, for a roll.

[106] It's coming out, you know, 20, 22.

[107] Yeah, and I put a lot of weight on.

[108] And what got me, I did one performance on TV.

[109] I was with the BAFTAs, actually.

[110] And I was disappointed myself, but, like, I was always a fairly sporty kid and then kept moving.

[111] And, like, I didn't look how I want to look.

[112] You know what I mean?

[113] Not there's anything wrong with that, but just in your own own self, you know how you feel about it.

[114] And obviously, they say the camera had 10 pounds.

[115] It definitely did.

[116] And I saw myself for the first time and I was like, oh my God, like I've completely let myself go in this.

[117] And it was fine.

[118] I kind of needed it.

[119] And actually, it's been the best outcome for me because I feel so much more secure in myself now and I feel like I know where I'm at again, which is good.

[120] Have you struggled to maintain consistency with the gym?

[121] I know I have.

[122] If you look at the last five years.

[123] I did.

[124] I did.

[125] I mean, training partners is the best one for that, you know, and each of you put in a session together and throwing in different moves because then you're doing something that's a bit different, you know, I mean, we recently, my training partner, and I got to, like, a point where we're like a stalemate with the stuff that we're doing, so then we started, like, branching out to different gyms and they have different kit, and then, you know, but I'm fairly good with keeping myself on the go with it.

[126] I mean, like I say, the only problem for me was just alcohol.

[127] You can't train and drink and anything.

[128] You can't do it all at once.

[129] You're going to be a rock star, you're going to be a star and that's your choice.

[130] And do you think you've gotten a bit of a sort of addicted personality in that regard where you'll get into something and just go all the way?

[131] I mean, as an addict, I want to say no, but I know I definitely do.

[132] Yeah, 100%.

[133] I think, well, there's a lot worse things to be addicted to them than looking after yourself.

[134] So, yeah.

[135] What's been the upside few?

[136] A lot of people listening to this, well, especially coming out of lockdown now, there's a lot of people that weren't able to go to the gyms because they were closed.

[137] And now that, you know, some people just need that little bit of a push.

[138] to understand what the value is of the gym.

[139] And what's the value of the gym been in your life?

[140] I think...

[141] Because you're going twice today.

[142] The value of the gym.

[143] Yeah, yeah.

[144] I mean, I wouldn't call the first one.

[145] The first one's more of like a wake -up.

[146] Let's call it a vinyasa, like a yoga type.

[147] The first day I went to the gym in lockdown, I went and looked at the gym.

[148] Because I was like, if I go in there and start moving around and throwing stuff and whatever else, then I'm not going to want to go the next day.

[149] And you have to slowly build it up.

[150] Don't go in and think you need to do 45 minutes because they're running in a magazine that they said this.

[151] There's no quick route.

[152] For me, you need three months for any significant change that you have.

[153] And then it's like start at 20 minutes, 15 minutes, just go and feel it out.

[154] And then you'll find after a while the exercises, you're like, oh my God, I only have five more minutes in here.

[155] And I need another five minutes.

[156] And guess what?

[157] You can have them.

[158] So then it's slowly like, we've got, we're up to, you know, an hour, an hour and 10 minutes now.

[159] So it's like from starting at 15, 20 minutes.

[160] But for me, it's just, like I say, it's being able to get into bed at night and have that small victory to know what, at least I did this.

[161] And it's, was for me. It wasn't for anybody else.

[162] I think that's important.

[163] And you're not doing it to try and get a sick.

[164] I mean, everyone's doing it low -key to try and get six -pack, but you're doing it because it's a lifestyle decision for your...

[165] Yeah, I mean, I recently started to do Jiu -Jitsu, and it's for me, I want to be able to do of what a lot of these guys are doing.

[166] Like, the funny thing, Jiu -Jitsu is super humbling because you just get thrown around like, it's like a tiger -eating a gazelle or something.

[167] I mean, it's wild.

[168] So it's like as soon as it happens, and I was always quite a small dude.

[169] I've never been like a big guy.

[170] I mean, even when I did my underwear commercial, I was still like 80, I think I was 75 kilos, which is super light, right?

[171] So when I'm in the gym, people are like throwing me over here and I'm like, oh, I'm going that way today.

[172] Am I?

[173] And then I'm over here.

[174] And it's like, so I did want to put some weight on, but I put too much weight on at one point.

[175] I was like, I went hellful leather.

[176] But it's more for the fitness side and the jujitsu side that I'm training as hard as I am.

[177] I wanted to ask you some advice.

[178] I've been announced as a dragon on dragon's den.

[179] How do you feel about that by the way?

[180] It's pretty cool.

[181] It's cool because you're a dragon.

[182] Like when some kids want to grow up being a dragon.

[183] Yeah, I know.

[184] I watched it when I was 12.

[185] So it came out when I was 12 and I used to watch it and I've never missed an episode.

[186] Wow.

[187] That doesn't surprise me all.

[188] And I said to the team, I used to pretend I was a dragon, sit there, pause the TV, give my verdict at 13 years old, all this stuff.

[189] the bit I wanted to ask your advice on is when it was announced you know I had my little moment 15 seconds where like all of the press talk about you your Twitter blows up lots of attention what advice would you give to me about dealing with this kind of noise because you I mean there's not many people in planet Earth that have dealt with noise like that right I think don't it's a really fine line between getting too wrapped up in what's going on and not being wrapped up enough in it, if you know what I mean.

[190] Really?

[191] But I think you know the things that hurt you the most because you know they're honest.

[192] So when someone says something new, like, if they hurt you, then you hurt you a lot, then you know there's some truth in it because it hurt you.

[193] If it's ridiculous, you just go, that was funny, as if they said that, you know what I mean?

[194] Really?

[195] So I think there's a fine line to tread with it.

[196] And I mean, I've gone through eras where I was such like a little clapback attitude -driven youth.

[197] You're responding.

[198] Where as soon as someone would say something, I'd be like, right, well, then let's go at you.

[199] And then I was, I mean, I was a bit mean, nasty at point.

[200] So it was a bit bad, but when you're a teen growing up in it and people are like basically bullying you and they get paid for it.

[201] It's like that's a bit outrageous.

[202] So I'm going to have my say, who's got the biggest mountain?

[203] You know what I mean?

[204] But then it's like someone said to me over time, it's like, you know, if someone says something about me in the press in this country and then I say something about them, it ends up on e -news and then they've made America.

[205] I didn't get anywhere.

[206] So it's like don't bring people up to your level if you don't think you, unless you absolutely have to.

[207] And one thing I would say, don't lose your phone doing this, notes.

[208] If someone pisses you off, write a note about it as if you were writing them a letter and then let it go.

[209] Just don't send it.

[210] And then it gets all your what you would tweet out but you don't say it.

[211] That was the best thing I ever did.

[212] There was the best thing I ever did.

[213] Really?

[214] Yeah.

[215] So pop open your notes then.

[216] I just remembered one.

[217] Can you imagine?

[218] Fucking out.

[219] No, it's crazy because you read stuff and I was saying to you, you know, before we started filming like I've got a baby apparently and a wife and then you look at this other...

[220] No, I know, exactly.

[221] You're doing really well, yeah.

[222] And I just thought, you know, it's crazy that there's not a high regard for truth in...

[223] Do you know what?

[224] I was actually on the way into this.

[225] I wanted to speak about this because obviously there's a lot in the world a moment about freedom of speech and the press freedom of speech, which I agree with, right?

[226] We don't need to dictate laws.

[227] My only problem is, and my biggest problem around Corona was the fact that the media were allowed to twist our thinking about Corona, as much as they wanted to, and they're still doing it now.

[228] But the fearmongering isn't helping anyone, you know, and these people aren't sat there.

[229] I know I've just written a great article.

[230] My boss is going to promote me. Oh, yeah, but you just decrease the value of the pound.

[231] So your wages that you think are worth more and now worth less.

[232] Well, it's a struggling industry, right?

[233] I just don't get it.

[234] I'm like, if it's a medical thing and it's the world that is in trouble, maybe there should have to be something in place that says this is true.

[235] Or not that they have to put a disclaimer and say you should take advice from your local government bullshit.

[236] We all read you for advice and you are offering us a disservice by telling us non -truths about stuff.

[237] I just don't get it.

[238] Yeah, I get that there's a hairdresser's account for me for people going, oh my God, I can't believe what that Liam Payne's done this week.

[239] What's he done now?

[240] You know, I get that.

[241] But for Corona, we don't need to be going, oh, yeah, have you read the thing about this new variant that's come from over the border?

[242] Yeah, I can't believe it.

[243] Like someone from America phoned me the other night and like, are you going to be able to come here soon?

[244] And I'm like, no, I ain't.

[245] No, no chance.

[246] But we don't, none of us know.

[247] We're all confused because we're being spouted fear, which I just think is terrible.

[248] Social media doesn't help either because there's screenshots knocking around WhatsApp groups saying all sorts of.

[249] Yeah, I mean, as much as this technology advancing on us, it's like this slow road.

[250] I mean, it's almost like the coins thing at the moment with the Bitcoin's.

[251] Like there's some coins that are actually seriously there to do a job.

[252] And then there's like the fuck Elon Musk coin, which does nothing but just disrespect Elon Musk.

[253] Yeah, it's worth like $5 billion.

[254] It's actually nuts.

[255] You said earlier, you made a comment, you said that your partner at the time in referring to lockdown, does that mean you are?

[256] I am indeed.

[257] You're single?

[258] Yep.

[259] Me and you both.

[260] Where are we going?

[261] No, I'm saying to myself, I feel like more than anything at this point, I'm more disappointed in myself for the keep on hurting people.

[262] That annoys me. I've just been not been very good at relationships and I know what my pattern of things is with relationships I feel at this point I'm just not very good at them so I just need to like work on myself before I put myself onto somebody else and I feel that's where I got to my last relationship I just wasn't given a very good version of me anymore that I didn't appreciate and I didn't like being and I can honestly say that I feel better out of it I didn't feel good for doing what I did but it had to happen I mean that's the cornyest way of saying it was the best for both of us whatever cool that story where but it just feels like that.

[263] Very self -aware for you to know that you were...

[264] Oh yeah, no, I know it was a problem.

[265] So I need to sort myself out.

[266] And I already feel good.

[267] So it's got me more concentrated, you know, and I hope she's happy.

[268] What is it you've discovered about yourself in relationships that you're trying to work on?

[269] Do you know what?

[270] I mean, one of our old managers went to therapy from being a manager of One Direction.

[271] So if you can imagine how that feels, like the rest of us definitely needs them.

[272] And for me, most part, was really regressing from therapy because everyone was pushing me into it, which is the worst thing you can do.

[273] Like, it's almost like becoming sober, for instance.

[274] You have to want to be sober to start with, not people taking your toys away.

[275] And you're going, oh my God.

[276] So it kind of felt like that.

[277] Whereas this time, I kind of threw myself into it, even though I didn't want, didn't really want to inside.

[278] I threw myself into it, made my own choices.

[279] And I think for me, my life's been so controlled to appoint day sheets, security guards, you know, anything.

[280] And it's all everybody else is dictating puppet master crap over the job of your life, then you just get to a point where it's like you have to take some control about yourself.

[281] And until I started to do that with my life, then I was living for everybody else.

[282] And I'm a complete people pleaser anyway.

[283] So it was like nothing in my life was about serving myself, which then that just led me in a bad place.

[284] And finding an enjoyment from other stuff that I don't need.

[285] What did, because I've always considered therapy for a bunch of reasons.

[286] And the thing is it's still such like a, a, uh, taboo.

[287] kind of phrasing thing.

[288] And I get it.

[289] I do get it.

[290] I was, I mean, I was on the phone to Louis from my band talking about it today.

[291] And it's like, there was one moment last week.

[292] And, and I mean, my manager is my best friend.

[293] He's been saying to me for a long time.

[294] You'll have that one awakening in the middle of it where you'll think about stuff.

[295] And I, I mean, I hate words like awakening.

[296] And I hate this like Hollywood perception of like reflective work.

[297] What that fuck is that?

[298] You know what I mean?

[299] But I get it.

[300] But at the same point, I'm like, I don't know.

[301] You keep it for you.

[302] But it's like, I had this one moment that that I found.

[303] And I was like, oh my God, that's just unlocked so many truths about me. And it was so insignificant.

[304] It's something that happened when I was younger.

[305] And it was so, to me, it was like a family joke.

[306] But now I'm like, oh, my God, I've been living my whole life as that character.

[307] And yeah, wild, wild, you'll love it.

[308] Scary.

[309] Really scary.

[310] You don't know what you're going to find.

[311] It's like opening a book.

[312] No, that's it.

[313] It's wild.

[314] But I'm so glad that I, one, went through what I went through this year.

[315] And two, you know, I think this year's forced something out of all of us.

[316] And for me, it forced me to really look at my life and go, what the F are you doing?

[317] I could grow up and that was a point.

[318] I'm still trying to work on that, but...

[319] Did you regressed from therapy?

[320] Yeah, I always turned away from it and I was always like, oh, I don't need therapy, I'll sort myself out, you know, your own worst enemy at that point.

[321] I'm really keen to understand what makes you a difficult, you know, specifically what makes you a difficult person today.

[322] I ask this question because I'm difficult today.

[323] Do you want to pull a few people in it?

[324] Are we got a special guest?

[325] Coming on down, his best friend.

[326] Oh my God.

[327] Every ex -girlfriend, we've got them behind the curtain.

[328] Now, that would be a weird.

[329] a room.

[330] Can you imagine?

[331] That drops down and they're all there.

[332] Oh, my God.

[333] Hi, I dated him for three weeks.

[334] I'd be out.

[335] What would they, what would be the, the consistent theme as to why you're difficult to date?

[336] I think I, I think my problem, I struggle to be on my own sometimes.

[337] Really?

[338] Yeah, I struggle to be on my own and I think I'd dive in and out of relationships too quickly.

[339] And I've not had to spend enough time on my own to really learn about myself, if that makes sense.

[340] I honestly just need a minute out.

[341] I need to check myself.

[342] But I'm really, I'm really, I'm really keen.

[343] So you needed to spend some time on your own to kind of understand yourself because in a relationship context, you find that you kind of, you're in and you're out a little bit too much.

[344] Is that what you're saying?

[345] Yeah.

[346] And I don't know.

[347] I think the biggest problem we have, I'm proper perfectionist.

[348] Terrible, terrible, terrible.

[349] So when it comes down to relationships, I'm always trying to, at the start of the relationship, as we all do, you put out this complete false character.

[350] Like, I might as well go in a costume at this point.

[351] I'm like putting out something that he's not there.

[352] He's the person who's absent from the room.

[353] It's like they tag teamed on the way.

[354] And it's you for this bit.

[355] Yeah.

[356] I'll join in later on.

[357] And I just, yeah, I just need to stop doing that.

[358] And then kind of like, one, encompassing someone else's life with your crap, rather than like just doing your thing and laying out your stall from the day one.

[359] That's my biggest problem I feel for myself.

[360] I don't lay out my stall.

[361] I'm like willing to bend to someone else's stall.

[362] And then I'm annoyed at why they don't like what I like.

[363] Amen.

[364] So then I'm like, oh, okay.

[365] But if I just laid out the stall early on, And like, yeah, I go up at 5 a .m. and go for a run.

[366] Well, how are we going to deal with that?

[367] So it's either in or it's not.

[368] You know what I mean?

[369] It's not, not to not compromise.

[370] Because some things you'll be like, okay, that annoys you, fine.

[371] But, yeah, for me, I don't, I don't do that.

[372] I lay out a completely different.

[373] It's like a war worth when you wanted an artist or, you know.

[374] That's, I've really debated that.

[375] I'm going to personally, especially recently, because the girl I was into is very into everything that I'm not into.

[376] Like, like, she's into, like, horoscope.

[377] and like, I don't know.

[378] What's wrong with us?

[379] What are we doing this?

[380] I don't know.

[381] So I'm there like fucking looking at horoscopes, being like, no, yeah, because you're trying to make - Spiritual people scare me. But at the start of a relationship, you become more like them, they become more like you, and then as a couple of weeks, months past, you just regress to who you actually are.

[382] Well, you almost like, I feel like, I hide resentments from people sometimes.

[383] And I'm like, something annoys me and I'm like, I know, no, it's fine.

[384] But in time, I'm thinking, Jesus Christ, I wish she didn't do that.

[385] And then it's like, then over time, I'm like, every little thing starts, creeping in.

[386] And I did this in my job really badly because I would bend to my job and let my job overtake things that I didn't like doing.

[387] Steve will actually be honest, like videos for stuff.

[388] And rather than going no, until one day I just was like, I hate everything.

[389] And now it's almost gone back the other way.

[390] Now I've had this little reset that like I'm starting to call people in to do what I want to do rather than bend into everybody else's stuff.

[391] You know, in this, you'll probably experience the same way.

[392] In this, you're pulled every which way, you know.

[393] And it's always about impressing whoever's behind the lens or whoever's in the audience.

[394] So I find I feel conversations with crap that I'm saying that doesn't really help me because I'll go home thinking, why the hell did I say that?

[395] Like, what now I'm that guy?

[396] Oh my God, you know?

[397] And then it's like, but I was saying it because I thought it would entertain the other person.

[398] It wasn't about me. Stupid.

[399] It's really fascinating that you're so self -aware of all these forces at play because it feels like you've spent a long time really analyzing and looking at your behavior.

[400] I think that can have it benefits.

[401] it can have its problems as well.

[402] I think I'm like over -critical at points, but you know, you can't win everything.

[403] Being a perfectionist.

[404] Yeah.

[405] It's an issue.

[406] Talk to me about what that means specifically in your life.

[407] In work, in relationships.

[408] Steve?

[409] In everything.

[410] Steve's his manager who sat behind the camera.

[411] Yeah.

[412] I feel like we should put the chair.

[413] I know what I love about this is that, but see, my fans think that like Steve's like doing something to me, so they always like, oh, liberty for him.

[414] He always looks for Steve.

[415] But it's not because I like him.

[416] There's not because he's like harming me It's a person There's like a hashtag liberty for Liam Like they think I'm like So like prison child There's gonna be all these other people Who are just listening on the audio And think you're calling my name Steve So my one thing I really got into Over lockdown was art and drawing Oh interesting Something I've done since I was younger And That point was Find something to do That doesn't make you money Was the whole point of the exercise.

[417] I was like, okay, cool, drawing.

[418] And I said to the person who gave me the advice at time, I was like, I guarantee this turns into something, hold for later on in the conversation.

[419] So I started drawing.

[420] But then what I found was I was so bad at starting a task, blank sheet of paper and all that because I was so worried about what might come out that I was like, I'd sit there, like, if something's not quite right, I like, it can ruin my day in a drawing.

[421] If something goes wrong and it's not quite right, I'm like, oh my God.

[422] Like, I hate it.

[423] That's the kind of thing.

[424] And how did that go?

[425] Okay.

[426] I mean, the thing is once I got started and got onto some stuff, but then it was like sometimes in that respect, then I was drinking to draw pictures because I was so in my own freaking way.

[427] And it's the same writing songs as well.

[428] You can do the same thing with everything.

[429] You can trade out all that crap.

[430] And it's like, that's why people might smoke a bit or do whatever when they make a track.

[431] It's all about getting out your own way.

[432] And I feel like now I feel much more, like I know who I am and I know what I want to do.

[433] So I don't need to be in my own way.

[434] I'm going to go, you know, I don't need these additives.

[435] They only make me worse anyway.

[436] In the long run, right?

[437] Oh my God, yeah.

[438] Today it might help, but tomorrow it's going to cause problems, right?

[439] And are you still drinking?

[440] No. No, not soon.

[441] No, I've been still over a month now, I think it is.

[442] My business partner, when we started the business, became an alcoholic about three, four years in because it was just too tough.

[443] And then he had, like, severe suicidal ideation.

[444] He actually didn't tell me at the time.

[445] And this is why when I was reading about your story, I could relate to so much of it, because I didn't say what I was going through to him.

[446] He didn't say it to me. And then it was like, after we'd sold the business that he was like, I used to stand on the train platforms and think about jumping in front of the train.

[447] And I was like, and he never told me. And there was, and I didn't know what alcoholism or really mental health was at the time.

[448] But I'd go downstairs 3am in the morning and I'd open up the laundry room and he's in there with a bottle of wine at 3am.

[449] The lights are off and he's just drinking it, sat on the clothes.

[450] I'm like, get off my fucking clothes.

[451] I'm joking.

[452] And I was like, what the hell's going on?

[453] But, you know, and I read similar thing, similar sort of story or narratives in your story where, you know, you were having moments of that kind of like ideation.

[454] You were having moments of suicidal ideation.

[455] Yeah, I mean, there's some stuff that I've definitely like never, never spoken about to do with it.

[456] There was really, really, really severe.

[457] And it was a problem.

[458] And it was only until I saw myself after that I was like, right, I need to fix myself.

[459] It was like few pictures of me on a boat and I'm all, like, blow it out.

[460] And I call it pills and boo's face.

[461] And I was like this, like my face was just like 10 times more than it is now.

[462] And I just didn't like myself very much.

[463] Then I made a change.

[464] And the same thing happened this year with that sort of thing as well.

[465] But the problem we had in the band, and I don't blame anybody for this.

[466] I don't want to seem like I'm whining or moaned.

[467] Oh, my God, look at my life, whatever.

[468] But it feels to me like when we were in the band, the best way to secure us because of how big it got was just lock us in our rooms.

[469] And of course, what's in the room?

[470] Mini bar.

[471] So at a certain point, I thought, well, I'm going to have a party for one.

[472] And that just seemed to carry on throughout many years of my.

[473] life and then you look back how long you've been drinking this before you're like Jesus Christ that's a long time even for someone who's you know as young as I was um as wild but it was like the only way you could get frustration out in the day or being like trapped and and you know I spoke about to somebody about this and in child development you know as a team the one thing you need is is freedom to make choices and freedom to do stuff and it was the one thing that although we could do anything we wanted it seemed from the outside that we were always locked in a room at night and then it will be car, hotel room, stage, sing, locked.

[474] So it was like they pulled the dustcloth off, let us out for a minute, and then he's like, woohoo!

[475] And then he's like back underneath it, and I'm like, good.

[476] It's so crazy, because you're right, the public will think the absolute opposite.

[477] We think, oh, one direction, those guys have got total freedom, all the money and what they can do anything.

[478] Everyone's, you know, in their nine to five jobs, just thinking, I'd love to have that level of freedom that Liam Payne has to do anything.

[479] But you can't do anything, right?

[480] It's the opposite.

[481] No, I mean, because we were young, I mean, I actually wanted to speak to you about this as well.

[482] So, obviously, you've reached Stratz very high.

[483] It's a young age.

[484] It's like, what I found was, I didn't know I was the boss until a long, until like a few months ago.

[485] I still don't even feel like I am now.

[486] Like, I was such a child.

[487] And everyone I work with is like, older than me and wiser than me. And I'm like, what the hell am I doing here with these people?

[488] So it's like, you know, when we were 17, I thought the security guard was like in charge of me. Like, I was like, oh, can we leave the room?

[489] No, okay, then not to worry.

[490] I'll just stay here.

[491] that's what I was lying.

[492] So I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

[493] You know what I mean?

[494] It's like, and no one, there's no guidebook.

[495] They don't give you a little DVD on the way and saying, here, you're a puff star.

[496] This is what you got to do.

[497] So I'm like in the room like, what are we allowed to leave?

[498] And then eventually that becomes like an angry person.

[499] And I was.

[500] Because there was points where it was toxic and it was difficult.

[501] Don't get me wrong.

[502] We had the best time ever.

[503] We did.

[504] But there was moments where through, you know, I mean, there's a big movement on it at the moment.

[505] and people overworking and like you don't realize you have a choice at that point.

[506] But in those shows, sometimes they don't give you the choice because you want the dream.

[507] But you have to realize there is a sacrifice for that, you know, rather than it just, and like I say, I never want to come on on these things in whine about stuff.

[508] Like I made my own choices in life, you know, being an alcoholic, doing whatever else, that weren't my choice.

[509] So, you know, it doesn't have to be whiny, but it's just like there was a sacrifice.

[510] And I know what I did sacrifice to be here.

[511] You know?

[512] Everything, what I've come to learn, everything in life, all the good shit comes with a cost.

[513] Oh.

[514] And I've learned, just from my own experience, like my success, my success, very different from yours.

[515] We went very different paths, but came with a clear cost.

[516] Because you can't go from being an 18 -year -old kid that's like making Chicago Town pizzas to feed himself to building a company worth $300 million within six, seven years.

[517] What a great sentence that was, by the way.

[518] I could, like, I was a fucking loser.

[519] loner.

[520] Like I was in my room for summers upon summers on my own, just, you know, because I couldn't, eight, my parents weren't talking to me. They said, don't call us and take back to university.

[521] Years on my, so he wasn't speaking to my family, no friends, because I couldn't even afford to see them.

[522] That was the cost for me. And what that made is someone who, again, isn't very social.

[523] On the weekends, I spend 99 % of my time alone.

[524] And people are like, oh, my God, I'd love to be.

[525] I'm like, well, and then I have the same thing you have, which is, my brain has always has a thousand tabs open.

[526] And I can't just go and sit on a sun lounger in tan.

[527] Like tan?

[528] Tan, what's my brain going to do then?

[529] Sitting in the baths on my worst ones as well.

[530] But that's it, you're right.

[531] And you know what?

[532] Like, think about someone as simple or someone who like plays guitar.

[533] The amount of time you have to spend alone with that instrument.

[534] You're going to be missing a couple of other things that happening like.

[535] Exactly.

[536] And that's what it's like, exactly.

[537] And that was for us as, for us as teens growing up, you know, I think people, like I said, I started at 40.

[538] That's nuts.

[539] Like I was in my school.

[540] I remember very clearly the moment that the X -Factor moment happened when I was, when I was younger.

[541] And I was playing football on a field, and we had an all -girls school right next door to us.

[542] So I'm just playing football, like, as a normal day.

[543] I've had a few, like, people, like, shout me out in the street where it was like, cool, I'm, you know, 14 years old.

[544] The whole school from the other school is on the fence.

[545] You're joking.

[546] And I'm, like, banned from that field for life.

[547] At first, how does it feel?

[548] It was wild, but what their people don't.

[549] Yeah, it was amazing.

[550] I went from, like, zero to, like, I was the, The thing is, I always say these people, I wasn't world famous when I was 14, but I was famous within my world.

[551] So it's like, well, I didn't leave Wolverhampton.

[552] And everybody in Wolverhampton knew who the hell I was.

[553] So I couldn't go anywhere.

[554] So, you know, and at that point, I can't afford a security guard.

[555] I'm not special enough to have any of these like additives.

[556] I'm still on the 7 -9 -4 -A to, you know, my little Christian school.

[557] And then what happened over time is, and, you know, people are people.

[558] They do what they do.

[559] But there was one significant moment for me where I knew that I lost it and I wasn't going to go back on X Factor to be in the band, which would have been wild, by the way.

[560] I would not have been here right now.

[561] But there was a moment I was in a McDonald's with like a new girlfriend I had at the time and it had been two years since the show.

[562] And I noticed my shows decreased in number, decreased in capacity and decreased in wages.

[563] So I was like down and out at this point.

[564] So I've had fame and lost it and I'm like nearly 16 years old.

[565] So that's difficult to deal with anyway at that age And then I'm in McDonald's And because everyone still knows who I am I'm sat there and I literally remember About to take a bite at this nice juicy burger Someone on the stairs goes X Factor reject And the whole restaurant looks at me Right, I'm 15 years old And it was just horrible What a scumbag thing to say I know, but it was like that's the thing It's like it was almost like a shout out to say Oh, you think you're special But you're still here In the most Wolverhampton I guess you got to understand Where that comes from though From that person What's going on in their life?

[566] Well, someone said something to me today.

[567] It's not what you do, it's what's happened to you, which I thought was quite, I like that.

[568] So tell me what happens from there.

[569] So I don't want to go too much into the, because I know you get asked this stuff all the time, so we don't want to go over old tracks, but that was your first sort of experience with fame.

[570] You then kind of, you feel it declining.

[571] Ice Cube says some stuff to you in the McDonald's.

[572] Life carries on, and then, yeah, on the point, because I really want to get to this, I know you're working on this NFT project.

[573] Yeah.

[574] And it's based around this feeling of being.

[575] It's based around the idea.

[576] Yes.

[577] It was like a, I want to call it a syndrome.

[578] I don't know what it was.

[579] Someone told me something about fame.

[580] You enter fame the age.

[581] You leave fame the age you entered it.

[582] So for me that was 14, right?

[583] So I'm screwed.

[584] Like I'm a 14 year old forever child.

[585] So that was always a big fear of mine that I have to grow properly.

[586] Now, from what one direction gave me, I grew massively in some respects to the point that you, I mean, you all have experiences when you have conversations about business deals and I'm the director of a company.

[587] Like I was a director of a half a billion.

[588] dollar industry at 22.

[589] I'm like, what the hell does that mean?

[590] All it meant was I got to sign 10 times more forms than anybody else.

[591] Wild, right?

[592] So, but then in other things, like, if I'm trying to pay car insurance, I'm useless.

[593] So then you don't grow in other aspects of your life because you have other people do crap for you.

[594] Like picking up my post, I'm the worst person in the world.

[595] I just forget about it, you know.

[596] That must lead you open to be taken advantage of, right?

[597] Because they know that there's some things you don't know.

[598] Like you were taking the security person was...

[599] Yeah, that's it.

[600] And you're, you're deluded in your growth of whatever.

[601] But this is where the NFT idea kind of came from.

[602] And it first started as this little drawing that I did.

[603] And I wanted to make my own character because I was like, I'm really good at drawing, but we have printers for that.

[604] I don't need to be a printer.

[605] So then I was like, I need to make something.

[606] So I made this like ethereal creature that was, I wanted to 3D print and stick in a, like, crystal glass box.

[607] And the idea is that he's depressed.

[608] It's like a wasp in a beer glass type thing.

[609] Ah, okay.

[610] Magical creature.

[611] Can't get out sort of thing.

[612] So then we kind of came up with this prayer returnist idea around fame and what does that lead to.

[613] And for me, the way it speaks to me and the way that art speaks to me is that I was afraid of the idea of losing, you know, have a keeping the child with me. I was trying to, he was like a monkey at my back trying to get rid of him.

[614] Whereas for now, the idea for me is more based around, you know, how do I enjoy that?

[615] Because what I love when I see my son is that he can be whatever he wants in that moment, you know, I'll be over the house.

[616] And he's like, you're a bad guy.

[617] I'm a good guy.

[618] And I'm like, that's great.

[619] And then the next day, he's one of them girls from Frozen.

[620] No, no, I'm doing this.

[621] It's magic powers today.

[622] And I'm like, wow.

[623] Like, we lose that.

[624] And that's a lot of my problem when I'm sitting doing a task or whatever, the belief system in me has been trotting on through life that much that now I've forgotten about that.

[625] They have the ability to do whatever the hell they want.

[626] So why would you ever want to lose the child within you in that sense?

[627] Wow.

[628] And that's coming out as an NFT soon?

[629] It's coming out as an NFT in like two weeks, I think.

[630] It's quite scary.

[631] It's wild.

[632] Because I just made it, I made it one day in lockdown and then sent it to my manager.

[633] And we enjoyed the pieces it was, but then it just kind of grew into this thing at the same time that NFTs were growing.

[634] Right.

[635] As a thing.

[636] I mean, how many people ask you what NFTs are, by the way?

[637] So many of them.

[638] A lot of people.

[639] Like I'll get DMs all the time and, you know, I'll try and describe what it is.

[640] but I think if you say something with enough conviction, people will just believe it anyway.

[641] So I'm like, you know, broccoli.

[642] You know, I'm like, no, I'm just say anything.

[643] Yeah.

[644] I know what it is.

[645] I've studied it.

[646] I'm working on a few projects at the moment with NFTs, but I'm just, you know, with all these emerging technologies and whenever something's new, I'm kind of like probably a little bit like you and Christian.

[647] I know you're very, very entrepreneurial and investing a lot now.

[648] I just want to be in there like a sponge.

[649] So I want like a flag in there just so I can learn.

[650] Yeah.

[651] Well, I mean, I haven't that.

[652] That's a common misconception about this sort of thing as well, is that you always come up with the idea that's coming to you rather than, like you say, being that sponge in the middle of the room.

[653] If you're not part of the million dollar conversation, you are never part the fucking conversation.

[654] And that's literally it.

[655] It's like be in the moment.

[656] Like rather than trying to make decisions or you just have to learn about that stuff.

[657] And you don't have to know everything.

[658] You just have to know someone that does know something.

[659] You know what I mean?

[660] The thing is you get older, I think the voiceless thing is that people, those phrases that they used to say to you as a kid, like, when I had my child, my mom saying to me, oh, like, you're growing up so quickly, like, blinking, you'll miss it.

[661] And you're a kid, you're like, yeah, I'm six, like, chill out.

[662] But then as you get older, you're like watching it and I watch my song girl, I'm like, oh my God.

[663] Yeah.

[664] Like, he's telling me off now.

[665] They grow up so fast.

[666] My niece, I mean, I've got a child of my own, according to the daily mouth, but, you know, just like this.

[667] Where did you get those legs from?

[668] I've been teaching mine to swim.

[669] I mean, we had a really good conversation today, and it's like, it's a whole new learning experience.

[670] Once again, there's no handbook, and you're just, like, out there on your own.

[671] I still feel like a child in so many ways, as you've learned from my NFT.

[672] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[673] But I'm watching him and, like, I played him a trailer, a movie trailer.

[674] It was this simple.

[675] I played him a trailer for a thing, and we watched it.

[676] We both, like, I like, I like that.

[677] I stick that on.

[678] It was just Disney's Rayo and a Dragon thing.

[679] It was about you.

[680] You and your new fan friend, Ray.

[681] And so he sat there, and then I turned the film on, and the first shot of the film was from the trailer.

[682] He's going, why are you playing this again?

[683] And I'm going, no, no, no, it was, we watched a trailer.

[684] No, but why is it on the TV again?

[685] And it kept like, like, bits get flashing on.

[686] I'm like, oh, my God, this is not helping me. So then I'm like, okay, let me, how do I explain this?

[687] I was like, you know, like, if we, like, have a plate of food, and like I feed you a little bit, and then you go, oh, and you don't want it, and then I take it away, or if I feed someone, you go, oh, yeah, and I give you the whole thing.

[688] I was like, that's like this.

[689] And then he's going, yeah, but why are we watching it again?

[690] Oh, God.

[691] you get scared as a dad about doing the wrong thing or the right thing because you say there's no handbook so you're like if you feed him this or if you say this he's going to start saying the C word or at school like I don't oh when he did swear once I was happy I wasn't around for it because I couldn't be blamed and there's a way to root out find out who swear word it is because it wasn't a combination I would use oh really so I knew it wasn't me mommy who was it who was it we won't go into that you said I don't normally loop back was something you said, which again, my mind thought, oh, that's really intriguing, is you said that you weren't going to reapply for the X Factor, potentially.

[692] Where do you think you would be?

[693] And I'm going to ask you various iterations of these questions.

[694] Where do you think you'd be in your life now if you haven't have applied for the X Factor?

[695] So you want the business plan.

[696] That's what you really want to hear.

[697] You want to hear the business.

[698] Hey, I'll lay out of you.

[699] This is my, this is actually my plan B system.

[700] This is a weird range child.

[701] So I got a job.

[702] At the same time, this is really wild work experience week at school.

[703] My dad worked at a factory and I was always obsessed.

[704] I was like, this is adult Lego and he built aeroplanes.

[705] I was like, this is amazing.

[706] I'm going to do that.

[707] So I went and I built airplanes and they had like a little collection for me. If I did like 400 quid and everyone, I was like, what did you get paid for your work experience?

[708] I was like, nothing.

[709] I was like, oh, I got like 500 quid.

[710] But in the middle of my work experience, I went on X Factor.

[711] So it was almost like I was trialing my two lives.

[712] Almost like, what's that slide indoors film or whatever?

[713] It's called a butterfly effect.

[714] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[715] So my thing was I got a job and secure.

[716] one there for an apprenticeship, which was like 22 ,000 a year or something.

[717] And then I was like, right, I know my sister paid 60 pound board at the house.

[718] So if I just like board at my parents' house, it's 60 pound in fees, then I can save up the other money enough to buy my first house and then rent it out.

[719] All right.

[720] So I was going to collect the rent by another one and then move into that one.

[721] And then it was almost like a conveyor belt system.

[722] Nice.

[723] You had it all planned out.

[724] I had it ready to go.

[725] And then X Factor Room.

[726] I mean, you say your, your favorite TV program was dragons then.

[727] Mine was, I watched help my houses falling down and location, location, location, and stuff like that when I was a kid.

[728] I was like, obsessed.

[729] Yeah.

[730] And then fun enough, my manager does loads of properties.

[731] Are you into property?

[732] I love property.

[733] Really?

[734] I wasn't very good at the start, but I'm getting better.

[735] You need to teach me some stuff because I have zero properties.

[736] I'm renting this place.

[737] I was going to say to you, when you do a show like X Factor, what a lot of the sort of people that come out the other end of these shows often say, especially, I mean, very few have had the success that you've had right but I can imagine and I think I've I think I might have read this somewhere before maybe from Little Mix is you you feel somewhere in you that you still have something to prove because 100 % really talk to me about that I mean because your success was is just stratospheric it's like in a league of its own it's wild so to hear that you you feel like you still have something to prove is surprising well I mean I think there's a problem that us as people, we all want something that we feel like we made.

[738] But the older I get and the more things I'm like privy to, you don't really make anything on your own ever.

[739] Like I think there's just about Ed Shear and the rights on his own.

[740] And even he doesn't write music on his own.

[741] So it's like, for one, that feels a little bit like that because you were in the band.

[742] And I suppose for each of us as members, we wanted to see what we could do.

[743] And I, you know, I'm really happy with my successor as far.

[744] What I don't know is how much of this idea was mine to go with.

[745] to be in the music career.

[746] You know, you worry about, like, the life that you might have missed of.

[747] Oh, I was going to do this, whatever.

[748] I always quite like the idea of the army as a kid.

[749] That's something I definitely wanted to do.

[750] S -A -S.

[751] Yeah, I love the idea of the army.

[752] And boxing's another one.

[753] I mean, I've been fortunate to have a go at a bunch of fun stuff.

[754] But yeah, I think you always feel like you have something to prove.

[755] And I think the end of the day, you're already really proving it to yourself because no one else really cares.

[756] Everyone else just looks at you as what it is.

[757] And it's not that you want to beat your brand because no one, will beat our one direction.

[758] Not one of us in our lifetimes.

[759] In another lifetime, somebody might crack something.

[760] I mean, BTS have had a really good go at it.

[761] They've been really, really well.

[762] But we were like the new wave of the Beatles.

[763] And even still, people didn't say we beat the Beatles.

[764] You know what I mean?

[765] It's different.

[766] Yeah, but it's different era.

[767] Exactly.

[768] And that's what happened with our fame as well.

[769] We were just that of this era.

[770] It's the same with Justin Bieber, right?

[771] Who the hell is beaten that room?

[772] Come on.

[773] They won't.

[774] Someone will be different.

[775] Exactly.

[776] Exactly.

[777] So it's just like, I think in the end, it's your only like fight against yourself.

[778] That's not like Rocky Barbeaua now.

[779] I'm really intrigued by all of that because you also have these five, so you have five band members, but you all go off and do their own solo careers.

[780] And are you, do you compete against each other?

[781] Do you try and stay out of each other's lanes?

[782] Are you thinking about, oh my God, I don't want to be seen as doing, you know, what this person's doing?

[783] I think we did compete with each other at a point, but I think it's all fairly like, it's laid out as it is now, and we've all had our success in completely different areas.

[784] And also, music, we didn't really go down the same route.

[785] I think Harry's an amazing, you know.

[786] I mean, first album, he had the one song off, which is really, really well.

[787] And then his second album, he found himself.

[788] And that is your awakening in his eyes.

[789] That's when it really clicks.

[790] I don't feel like I've had that moment within me yet.

[791] I've written some songs recently that I'm really proud of and happy with, but I don't feel like I've had that moment yet.

[792] Strip that down, came out, and it was, we did a billion streams.

[793] And I could have never have asked for that.

[794] I could have never have asked for that in a million years.

[795] But when I was making streaming, that down?

[796] I was a box of frogs.

[797] I was nuts.

[798] It was wild.

[799] I didn't know what the hell was going on.

[800] And also, I didn't know what the, you know, the hot potato I just landed on me. Oh, we just did a billion streams.

[801] It's like, it literally is like a hot potato.

[802] One minute's here.

[803] The next minute's gone.

[804] So, you know, I'm excited to see what the next, the next six months of this brings, you know, I'm excited to see, to see, we have some really cool song in the pipeline, which is really exciting.

[805] Wow.

[806] Really exciting.

[807] And the song, one of the first ones I've actually written myself um with some other people i didn't write by myself um but it's yeah the first one i've really like and i think i got so used to carting around other people songs and not embedded myself creatively in what i do because i was scared to find out who i was so it's almost like that's the thing when you're selling yourself you have to know what the hell you're selling and i'm you know i'm sure most people wake up every day going i don't know what the fuck is going on and you have to fail to find that out right yeah 100 % because you're gonna have to try some shit and experiment.

[808] Oh my God.

[809] And it's like, so say like you're like geeky kind of growing phase between say 16 to 21 if you're lucky.

[810] It might last a bit longer if you're shit.

[811] I did that in front of everyone.

[812] And there's some terrible outfits.

[813] There's some terrible haircuts.

[814] You know.

[815] And that stuff is there forever.

[816] I've gotten away with a few haircuts.

[817] Yeah.

[818] I feel like you've had some great ones.

[819] The short haircut, I think not a lot of people can pull that out.

[820] I got there of like a melon head thing at the back.

[821] So I can't do that.

[822] People think I'm an alien.

[823] but you've had some good haircuts.

[824] I've got to be honest.

[825] I read something about strip that down.

[826] You said that you were almost scared of the success just as much as scared of the failure.

[827] Oh, man. I mean, no one trains you for the moment.

[828] It goes right, right?

[829] So you leave one direction.

[830] You've got your big sort of debut single coming up and you're scared of the success.

[831] I wasn't worried because I know what that can bring to you.

[832] What can it bring?

[833] Well, I've never had it.

[834] I finish a day recently.

[835] One of the one days that's stuck out for me in the last few years where I did a whole day's promo in New York.

[836] And on the nighttime, I was on, I think it's an Andy Cohen show or something, and they had a drinking game.

[837] And someone asked me a question about one of my ex -girlfriends, and I did not want to divulge what the hell went down.

[838] And it was a drinking game.

[839] So I was like, they were like, we can fill it with water.

[840] But me being me, was like, no, if I'm playing, I'm playing for real.

[841] So I'm like necking tequila.

[842] Oh, gosh.

[843] Like boom.

[844] And I'm wasted.

[845] I get home at half past one.

[846] Bear in mind, I started at like, I want to say eight o 'clock in the morning, I was then asleep and I woke up at half past three for vocal training to be in Central Park at seven, for grooming at five and in Central Park for seven o 'clock.

[847] Bear in mind, I went to bed at half past one.

[848] So I know what it can bring in.

[849] That crap will send you insane.

[850] I don't remember some days I was here.

[851] That will send you round the bend.

[852] But if you want it, if you want it, it's out there for you.

[853] You can go ahead and take it.

[854] But it's like, you have to be a workhorse to want to do this.

[855] And I think, a lot of artists would say that coming out of it.

[856] But I don't think it's, you know, it's unfortunate the demand in our industry and also the demand of how quickly people receive information now.

[857] You know, our 30 second time like goldfish time span that we've got now.

[858] I mean, I definitely have that.

[859] I'm the worst.

[860] And it went really, really fucking well.

[861] It went really well.

[862] And then it was like, you know, the problem we had was, it was like having a baby.

[863] The thing was nine months to get the number one in America.

[864] So it took nine months to work the record just to get the number one.

[865] So if you can imagine singing the same song every day for nine months and having like one or two songs to back it up with, it was like pretty like, I'm sure somewhere that must be like put down as a method of torture.

[866] Yeah, I can imagine.

[867] You must.

[868] But this is the job, man. And it's like, it's, listen, the first few shows of anything are amazing.

[869] And then after a while, it's like, you'll find bits that will like great on you and whatever else.

[870] But, you know, I've been so lucky to have the career that I've had and, and, you know, let's hope for more of that.

[871] That's what I think at this point.

[872] But it's learning how to deal and channel that.

[873] And what's your relationship like with the rest of the boys?

[874] I'm sure you get asked this all the time.

[875] Great with most of them.

[876] Great with most of them.

[877] I think everyone's settling into themselves at this point.

[878] I know I am for sure.

[879] I had a lovely phone call from Harry the other day.

[880] He was checking in on me. It's always like some people have got six cents for you, right, that you're going through something.

[881] So they'll check in.

[882] And he's very much like that.

[883] He's a lovely, lovely boy.

[884] I love him to pieces.

[885] And then, Louie, I speak to a lot.

[886] And we've always had a really, really close connection.

[887] And the funny thing for us, I've said this a lot, but we hated each other at the start.

[888] But it's almost the people that you grow closest to, you know.

[889] And I'll say it because he bought it all quite recently.

[890] But, you know, the whole thing is to talk about the reunion.

[891] Like for me, I'd rather be talked about it sooner rather than later.

[892] Because I don't want to...

[893] It's tough touring that sort of a record.

[894] And I enjoyed touring for what I enjoyed it for, but there's part of it that really, really fuck me up, man, in a sense.

[895] I'll be honest with you.

[896] But none of us talk about it.

[897] It's like, it's a taboo subject.

[898] Like, oh, we can't get back together.

[899] What do you mean?

[900] Oh, my God, like us in the same room.

[901] What the fuck is that about?

[902] What fucked you up about touring?

[903] My dad said it from day one, lonely hotel rooms, ma 'am.

[904] Getting locked in that room is not fun when you've been exposed.

[905] I mean, I've come off gigs before.

[906] I did a gig in Dubai.

[907] I was really worried no one was going to show up.

[908] It was one of my first solo gigs by myself.

[909] And I suppose I'm over self -critical.

[910] I'm always like, I don't know what the hell is going on.

[911] So I get to this park.

[912] And the capacity for the park is like, you've never seen.

[913] I'm looking at like a park.

[914] I'm like, how's the hell?

[915] And I'm thinking, we're getting paid a lot of money to be here.

[916] This is going to be really embarrassing if nobody shows up.

[917] And I don't know anybody in Dubai.

[918] I can't even call 10 friends to be here.

[919] So I'm like at dinner, I'm not eating my food and whatever else.

[920] And I get back to the gig and there's people chanting and going to leave him, Liam.

[921] And I'm like, okay, there's people here.

[922] Oh, my God, I can chill.

[923] I get out there.

[924] And I'm like, awash with these sea of, of people.

[925] And I noticed the sound system's hella quiet behind me. It's making sense.

[926] I'd get through the gig and you autopilot the hell out of it.

[927] When I got offstage, they're like, oh, you broke a record, you're on a list with Michael Jackson.

[928] It was 110 ,000 people.

[929] I'm like, and I shoot you not.

[930] I got back to my hotel room and I was sat in my room on a chair like this.

[931] And I was about to go to the Maldives with Cheryl and Bear, and I'm like, I don't think I can go to the Maldives right now.

[932] I can't move off this chair.

[933] How did you feel on that chair?

[934] Shocked.

[935] Why?

[936] Like, to go from like, I don't know who's going to be here to then, I looked on the thing and it's like Oasis, Robbie Williams, all these amazing, you know, ACDC, all these outdoor gigs, amazing outdoor gigs.

[937] And then just me and Michael Jackson and he's in there like three or four times.

[938] He's, you know, he is the list.

[939] But I was on the same list.

[940] I'm like, what the?

[941] Can't be easy.

[942] Like, go back to that hotel room.

[943] And then that's it, it's just mute.

[944] It's almost like, you know, like in a movie where they throw a grenade and he goes, and then everyone's like, that's what it feels like.

[945] And you're like, oh, Oh my God, like, yeah, because I've done 9 ,000, 50, 15 ,000 in South Palo.

[946] I mean, I did a talk with Obama.

[947] That's me name dropping.

[948] Oh, wow.

[949] But, um, but it, they're not chanting.

[950] They're all very quiet.

[951] I mean, they clap at the end, but, but how do it make you feel?

[952] You just feel like a different, you know, I can completely relate because I, I was thinking last year.

[953] I lived in New York City, but I was, I was speaking around the world 50 weeks of the year.

[954] So I was home four weeks.

[955] And yeah, I go back to the hotel room, sometime, you know, I haven't eaten because of the adrenaline.

[956] and it's very lonely and you're like, YouTube and Dream service.

[957] but 110 ,000 people screaming your name and you're performing.

[958] I had the Prince or the King or something of Dubai dancing to strip that down.

[959] Oh, wow.

[960] I need to get that on tape.

[961] In a country where you can't strip it down, which I thought was about it.

[962] He was up dancing, you know?

[963] We were talking about the touring here, the touring part, really messed up with the hotel rooms.

[964] Yeah.

[965] A return of one D. I saw like a thing of people being like angry at X Factor this last few weeks.

[966] I wanted to say something about it, but I didn't really know what to say on my terms.

[967] Because I feel like there's obviously going to be some people in there who are bitter.

[968] And you sign up for this show, you don't really know what the hell you're getting yourself into.

[969] But I would agree, and we've actually gone out of our way as a team to make this possible for me. And I think a record label just bought into the idea of what we've made.

[970] And I was the guinea pig, right?

[971] So pick the craziest person in the room to start with us.

[972] Good place to start.

[973] And we made this thing to, like, care for people in the industry because we don't have unions.

[974] We don't have people to look after us.

[975] And I was a kid.

[976] You know, I was a child when this happened to me. And I'm very fortunate to still be here today to be able to tell this story.

[977] But for most people, they feel abused or something in some sense.

[978] So I just think that there needs to be a self -care system within these shows.

[979] Because if they're going to move people through these shows and, used them to make television, they can't just like let them off afterwards.

[980] And I could never watch X Factor because I was always heartbroken because I'd been the guy who made it really far and then got let go and it ruined me. When I was 14, I was crap at school, depressed.

[981] Like, it ruined me at one point.

[982] But I've also then been the guy who, I think my dad actually came out and said it in a thing we were filming once.

[983] He was like, you've been told no more than any winning X Factor contestant or like any successful X Factor contestant.

[984] I'm like, thanks, dad.

[985] It's great to what an unusual experience wild if you were to tour again would you do it differently would you have i don't actually even know how i would tour again i i really want to and like i want to i i always said throughout this solo career i'd let my songbook speak to me and i don't think my songbook has necessarily spoke to me enough to get me off my ass to go somewhere yet i only became a solo artist because i had stripped that down i wasn't going to do it i was going to leave it alone music.

[986] Yeah, I was going to leave it hell alone.

[987] I was like, I survived once.

[988] Thank you very much.

[989] But now I'm back in.

[990] Why?

[991] Because the song, I knew it was right.

[992] It felt right with the song.

[993] Whereas I haven't had that.

[994] And this year, the song that we have, I feel really right about.

[995] So I would rather let the music do the talking than me come out and, you know.

[996] I mean, it's such a fast -moving industry these days.

[997] It's one of the biggest races in the world, right?

[998] If we had a start line for how many musicians there are trying to make it right now and who's going to outwork the other one, we'd need a very big track.

[999] So it's just kind of got to that place.

[1000] We don't need any more useless music in the world, in my eyes.

[1001] It needs to mean something.

[1002] You said there's something, you know, in the previous answer that you've said online, which is that you're lucky to be here.

[1003] One of the most moving things I've ever seen, which honestly disturbed me and a state with me my entire life, was that Avicci documentary.

[1004] And the way that his management were pushing him and he had social anxiety and, oh, God, it just haunts me. You know what with those things?

[1005] I mean, I've spoken to managers who've lost people and different, and I've definitely put strain on a lot of people in my life in the past.

[1006] You see it best to be like a good place, a different person I don't like talking about.

[1007] You know, I think it's hard, it's just as hard for the team around you at points as it is for you.

[1008] Because we didn't all know how the hell we got here.

[1009] Everyone's kind of looking around.

[1010] Like, we don't really know how the hell we got here.

[1011] so where's the next move and there's always someone who will pull you through i've been very very fortunate now with the people that i had to pull me through my my bits um and it's you know that's why i say this care system is so important right we music is the lifeblood of a lot of our things it's the background to our movie scenes when we're sat in the back of the car looking longfully out the window but then we don't want to look after the thing that's kind of feeding us that much you know what i mean so i think for artists in the sense they do need that i feel that it doesn't need to get lost in translation in other things.

[1012] It genuinely needs to be a care system.

[1013] But then everyone's over -therapy these days in that sense anyway.

[1014] But it's like if you want it, it should be available.

[1015] You know?

[1016] Is there a moment where you look back and say that was the lowest moment for me?

[1017] That was the pivotal moment.

[1018] I had a few of them.

[1019] I was worried how far my Rock Bottom was going to be.

[1020] Where's Rock Button for me?

[1021] And you would never have seen it.

[1022] I'm very good at hiding it.

[1023] No one would have ever seen it.

[1024] But Rock Button, I mean, I don't even know if I hit it yet.

[1025] You know what I mean?

[1026] I feel like it's like one of those little graphs you see when it's like, oh, we hit the, you know, the support, the market support.

[1027] Yeah, we'll be there.

[1028] At least the support level.

[1029] Oh, my God.

[1030] You know, it's the same thing.

[1031] So it feels like I can even make that choice now and pick my last moment as my rock at the bottom or I can make a new one and make a whole new low as my choice.

[1032] You said online that you had previously been masking your emotions and feelings.

[1033] And this was something that you were trying to, trying to get over.

[1034] You said you tried to learn to deal with your emotions instead of masking them.

[1035] How important has that been?

[1036] This is something I really struggle with.

[1037] I'll tell you why, because I was the CEO of a company, you know, 27 years, 26, 27 years old, 700 employees and...

[1038] That's wild.

[1039] All around the world, these adults that are double my age.

[1040] And I have to be, right, my business partner, he'll tell you, he's been on the pocket, he fell away, right?

[1041] Alcoholic, put on all this weight, depressive anxiety, fell away.

[1042] So I'm carrying him because we're co -founders, we're seen as a unit.

[1043] So when he's out in the street, and he won't mind me saying this because he's been drinking all day with the team and he's stealing bottles of wine off other people's tables, just total strangers.

[1044] And he's doing things in public, which he'd get arrested for with parts of his body that I'm not going to talk about.

[1045] When he's doing those things, I'm getting a phone call.

[1046] I'm 26 and I have to not only manage him, my business partner, but then I'm having to manage all the impact that's had on all of our employees.

[1047] And I felt that I could never talk or be vulnerable.

[1048] You, the thing I find so...

[1049] But that's why I said, it's not, people don't realize it's not just, you know, and what happened to Avichy is terrible, by the way, and I haven't seen the documentary.

[1050] I didn't watch.

[1051] I actually knew someone who knew who worked with him.

[1052] He wrote with me as well, and he said that what he saw what was going on was not good.

[1053] But for the most part, for a lot of these people, there's usually there that's not very good, but everyone else is trying to help and you don't see the effect it's having on them as well.

[1054] You live and die by the sword.

[1055] I live and die by my sword.

[1056] That's it.

[1057] But the person who's behind trying to pick up the shield to help me, they haven't even got the fucking sword.

[1058] They're just diving into battle for you.

[1059] And that's the difference.

[1060] You know what I mean?

[1061] It's like people miss out on that bit.

[1062] So it's never just on that person.

[1063] You know what I mean?

[1064] A lot of my stuff, you know, if I hadn't had the help, I had, I don't know where the hell I'd be right now.

[1065] So that's a credit to you in a sense.

[1066] It's, um, it's super, super tough.

[1067] I think with the, um, the bit that I, I really respect you for, though, is you're very open about it.

[1068] You talk about going to therapy.

[1069] You talk about your lows.

[1070] You talk about being unsure if you would even be here.

[1071] And that's going to do a lot of good for a lot of people.

[1072] I hope so.

[1073] I mean, the, like, the worst bit for me is, I think it's seen so much as a tool these days to hide behind a point.

[1074] And for me, it's never about that situation.

[1075] I'm just telling you it has what it is.

[1076] And it's, that's the bit where I think, like I say, I don't want any of this to get lost in translation.

[1077] I am not one percent moaning about my life.

[1078] I love my life at the minute.

[1079] My life's great.

[1080] It's that it's upside of downs.

[1081] But it's, you know, yeah, I think I'd rather talk about it and it's therapeutic for me. And this has been a really good chat, by the way.

[1082] This is a cool chat.

[1083] I like this chat a lot.

[1084] There's been some shit ones.

[1085] I can imagine.

[1086] Yeah.

[1087] Because I'm genuinely asking you questions that I give a fuck about.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] That's it.

[1090] That's the point.

[1091] No. And I'm telling you the thing as if it matters to me, not trying to hide behind some sort of bullshit thing, you know?

[1092] And like I say, I think there's many people who have this effect on, on therapy and all those things and sobriety.

[1093] And I ain't saying everyone at home, by the way, should go sober.

[1094] I ain't telling them to go vegan.

[1095] I ain't telling them to do whatever.

[1096] I'm saying this is what I did, and it worked pretty okay for me so far.

[1097] So, you know?

[1098] You're making, you made a movie.

[1099] You wrote a movie, right?

[1100] I've been working on something for a while, and me and Christian spoke about it a few weeks ago.

[1101] and it's funny that it's based around A .A., but I had a really weird AA experience the first time that I went into.

[1102] What's A .A. for anybody that doesn't know?

[1103] Alcoholics Anonymous.

[1104] And my first experience was with Russell Brand, which have you seen getting into the Greek or any of those other movies.

[1105] I went to his house and I love Russell.

[1106] There's something about that sentence which I can't get over.

[1107] My first experience was with Russell Brand.

[1108] Okay.

[1109] I mean, yeah, exactly.

[1110] I'm in his house.

[1111] I'm in this dude's house.

[1112] And I've only seen him on the movies and as a comic and I, you know, my bookie -wookie, I love that stuff.

[1113] And like, so I know a lot of things about him, but I'm not, I'm a really shy person when I first I'm like, oh my God, like, so he makes me a coffee and we sit talking about our experiences.

[1114] And I've never seen someone look at me the way he looked at me, like find you a man who looks at you like, Russell Brad looks at you when he's listening to your stories because he like looks into your soul.

[1115] I was like, I was born again.

[1116] And then we went to this meeting.

[1117] It was an all -male meeting and there was everything in the meeting from prison guards to ex -soldiers to ex -cons to postmen to bin men to everything and then me and Russell Brandt.

[1118] So I'm like this is the weirdest room I've ever been in my life we're in like some old like community like church room or whatever and then he's taking the chair in the room.

[1119] So my first experience from AA was like the best experience ever because it was like he was just doing stand -up.

[1120] It was unbelievable.

[1121] He was doing stand -up in an aim.

[1122] No, it's like they have one who chairs the meeting.

[1123] And the idea is like, if they say like, oh, can you talk about relationships and how it was affected by alcohol?

[1124] Then he'll tell the story of his alcoholism or, you know, narcotics thing.

[1125] And then you're linking from his experience to go, oh, my God, I'm the same as you.

[1126] And that's how it works.

[1127] I'm not going to give the whole script away because otherwise I'll tell you the whole film.

[1128] But I kind of came up with this film.

[1129] And I haven't spoken to Russabad, which is the first thing I have to do because it was from him that this, obviously I'm in a movie right now.

[1130] And I'm one of the characters and I'm sat here going I don't know what the hell I'm doing here but apparently I'm alcoholic and I've got a problem Oh my God, what's going on?

[1131] The walls are closing in.

[1132] Warfara walks in.

[1133] Yeah, exactly.

[1134] The Wolf Wall Street was in the corner over there.

[1135] No, it was wild.

[1136] So I'm excited about it and I think it's really funny.

[1137] I showed it one of my friends and she really likes it she laughed a lot of it so we'll see.

[1138] What else is going on in your life in terms of like business and investing and projects and stuff like that?

[1139] When you think about the direction of travel that you want to take over the next 10 years.

[1140] Which direction do you want to focus on and go in?

[1141] You're investing tons, you've got your own businesses now.

[1142] Everyone's going to say the same thing to you every time you have an interview.

[1143] They're going to say, when is their reunion?

[1144] I mean, I've had wild my business learning curve from the day I first got my like first check and I went to the manager.

[1145] I'm like, what do you invest your money in?

[1146] Because he had the biggest garden in London.

[1147] I was like, he's a good place to start.

[1148] He had the biggest home garden, which you don't think he does anymore, Steve, do you?

[1149] Okay.

[1150] apparently he doesn't anymore.

[1151] But apparently he did.

[1152] When I was younger, he did.

[1153] So I'm like trying to ask him, like, what are you investing?

[1154] He's like on about gold and whatever else.

[1155] Then you learn about safe haven currencies and all these other things.

[1156] Then I started to branch out a little bit more, a little bit more.

[1157] Then I went on to properties, which was always the one I wanted to do.

[1158] And then when I was 19, I nearly bought a fighting agency, which was fun.

[1159] A fighting agency.

[1160] Bama.

[1161] I got bought in to buy Bama when I was 19.

[1162] So I roll up to this in my, like, my, like, Burberry coat thinking I'm an absolute bad.

[1163] man, because I'm about to buy, like, England's UFC.

[1164] Oh, okay, okay, fine.

[1165] Right?

[1166] So I go to this arena in Manchester, and I'm looking past it.

[1167] He's not great, everything else, but I'm looking at all the stuff.

[1168] And you're a kid, so I'm a kid.

[1169] And I mean, I remember being front row with a fight, and some guy behind me obviously doesn't like the band very much, like, sit out, shut up, whatever else.

[1170] Every fighter then, after got out the ring and shut my hand.

[1171] And I just get looking behind thinking, you still got a person to say, do you know, the guy with a scary clownmaster, just need that with the guy's nose off?

[1172] Like, he's my friend.

[1173] So I was like, yeah, exactly.

[1174] And then I went and met everybody afterwards.

[1175] And I got in his company.

[1176] But unfortunately, the deal wasn't great.

[1177] I put it through one of my investors that I have.

[1178] And then it's like, people try to catch you out.

[1179] And this was always my biggest problem.

[1180] I very fortunate to live in some lovely places.

[1181] And every time someone would show up at my door to do something and the job would cost 500 pounds, they would try and charge me 50 grand because the house was big.

[1182] And I'm like learning early on like, but don't get me wrong, I've spent some money on some stuff I shouldn't has meant money on.

[1183] You and me both.

[1184] Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to go into detail because I lost some money.

[1185] Like, my thing I always say to people is like, I will tell you where I lost as much as I tell you where I win.

[1186] You can't make mistakes though, right?

[1187] Yeah, 100%.

[1188] And like, my point is I'm going to do better than whatever my last mistake was anyway.

[1189] That's the point.

[1190] If I trust myself enough, it won't matter in the long way.

[1191] When you think about money, though, you know, you didn't come from money.

[1192] You didn't come from back.

[1193] When you started, I read that your dad had tons of debts and stuff like that.

[1194] And so your relationship with money will be very, very different as you've gone over the last decade than a lot of other people, because to you, it was probably something that you thought was you built up more when you were younger, right?

[1195] Yeah, and I think as a kid growing, and especially, if you like rap music as well, it becomes a completely different thing.

[1196] Rap music made me spend a hell of a lot of money.

[1197] I would say, yeah, I mean, I have one of my friends over recently, and my family, my dad made decisions in our house of what was going on and stuff, and he did them for the right reasons.

[1198] So I stand by that and he doesn't need to feel any pain in that whatsoever because he wanted us to go on a holiday and go to America and he would bury himself.

[1199] And he was so stressed.

[1200] He said at one point in his life, he woke up and he couldn't remember his own name because he was so far in debt that he was already covering the interest, which I can't imagine how that feels.

[1201] I mean, it probably feels exactly the same how I feel some days with the other side of it, which is wild and we won't get into that.

[1202] But at one point in my life, I mean, my friend, you're a professional poker player now, but he was quite a rich kid at school because he was like playing poker.

[1203] since he was like 13.

[1204] So when we would go down to get breakfast, I couldn't afford it.

[1205] And he'd buy me like 20 p's worth of toast, and I couldn't afford it.

[1206] Nice.

[1207] Which is wild.

[1208] So then when you get money...

[1209] I didn't know my family were poor, but they were fucking...

[1210] You know, we were not in a good place.

[1211] So how did that impact your relationship with money when you finally got it?

[1212] Were you a splurger?

[1213] At points, yes, on certain stuff I would, but not...

[1214] I'm more of a worrier than I was a splurger.

[1215] I was like, because of where I lived and where I was from, I knew it could disappear.

[1216] So I was always really cautious about protecting what I have and only spending what I earn.

[1217] That's money and happiness.

[1218] Talk to me about the link.

[1219] A lot of people.

[1220] There isn't one.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] It's a myth.

[1223] So I think money, I think the way to think about money, I mean, there's a beautiful thing I had as a kid.

[1224] And when we used to go to church, the woman got a five -pound note out.

[1225] And she said, have you ever read a five -pound note?

[1226] And I was like, no, I haven't.

[1227] I was like, now.

[1228] And she's like, if you read it, it says, I promise to pay the bearer of this note five pounds, and money is promises, which I thought was great.

[1229] But if you develop on that and conversations I've had with people, money is care and the ability to relax on certain things.

[1230] Life's going to kick you in that, not sometimes, and you're going to need something to help those around you.

[1231] So it's never so much been for me about spending money on me. And sometimes I have to remind myself to shop because I'm terrible.

[1232] And I'm one of those people who, like, will go on a shop, fill a basket, and then it's not do the rest of it, I leave it there.

[1233] And I'm like, oh, yeah, I feel like I bought something now, that's good.

[1234] At least I did something fun with what I'm working my ass off for, but I'm not like that.

[1235] So it's like, in terms of with things with my family and different things that have happened, like my dad's debt for all those sorts of different reasons, I'd rather have it on hand.

[1236] And if something, God forbid, happens to any of us.

[1237] You know, my family are the last people who'd ever ask me for anything.

[1238] And I'm the first one to go, this is why we do, what we do, you know?

[1239] You have a son, bare, beautiful child.

[1240] He tells you that he's going to apply for X Factor someday.

[1241] This is a tricky one.

[1242] I think his mom's hoping he's going to become like yoga person.

[1243] His mom's very chill these days.

[1244] He says, I'm getting Instagram and I'm going to go do X Factor.

[1245] What do you say to him?

[1246] I mean, he's got the best advice from the parents around him for the long run, I guess.

[1247] But I don't know.

[1248] Obviously, we protected his identity to start off with.

[1249] And that's not being pretentious or anything other than the fact that I want to give him a chance to be bare first before he has to be, oh, your mom and dad are so -and -so, you know.

[1250] And I made my choice to be where I was at 14, 15.

[1251] So I figure he can make his own choice then, too.

[1252] We'll have a good discussion about it, a long discussion because I know what effects that can have as well.

[1253] But I would never stop him doing something you wanted to do.

[1254] I'd let him know the risks, and I'd tell him what was going to happen, you know, and better that than, you know, my parents didn't really ever experience any of the things I've experienced before I got this.

[1255] they had no idea what I was signing up for.

[1256] Would they change it?

[1257] Probably not, but they would change some things that happened in between across the way, I bet, 100%.

[1258] So he says he's going to do the show.

[1259] You'd give him the disclaimer and the warning.

[1260] What would you rather he did?

[1261] If you could, as a dad, you could be that authoritarian thing.

[1262] If you could choose.

[1263] Would it be to walk in your footsteps?

[1264] Something that he enjoys doing every day.

[1265] And I mean, I say that lightly because I think everything that you do depending on what kind of person you are, becomes annoying at a point.

[1266] It doesn't matter what job you do.

[1267] I really got to do that again, you know?

[1268] Like my dad, I used to think my dad's job was the best job ever, like building airplanes, adult Lego, like I said, whereas my dad's like, do not end up in that bloody factory.

[1269] That's the last thing you're going to do.

[1270] Would you want him to follow in your footsteps, though?

[1271] No, I hope you did it better than I did.

[1272] Really?

[1273] Yeah.

[1274] I don't know.

[1275] I think sometimes you can get lost in the connection part of this game, and I think that's always been a difficult thing for me to connect with people because I put so many barriers up before you get to actually what's going on that you, you know, it's almost like hurtling them in a way.

[1276] Why do you think those barriers are up?

[1277] Protection.

[1278] I think it's protecting people from what's, you know, if you turn up in the disguise every time, then you can always blame it on the disguise.

[1279] The moment you're not wearing one, you've got nothing to blame it on.

[1280] And what is it that your manager over there, Stephen, would know about you that probably most, I know, in terms of like...

[1281] That ain't a box we want to out on this.

[1282] In terms of like, you know, Someone who knows you very well would say about you that we wouldn't expect just from what we see online.

[1283] You talk, because you talk a lot about this wearing this mask and, you know, being wearing a disguise, even in your relationships.

[1284] I'm really trying to understand because we've been, hey, we've been here maybe now for two hours, whatever.

[1285] And as time goes on and on and on, you get to know someone a bit better.

[1286] You know, and like my barrier goes down a bit, yours goes down a bit.

[1287] We get more comfortable.

[1288] And I'm like, who is that person behind there that people don't know?

[1289] because...

[1290] I don't know.

[1291] I mean, I think in a certain part for me, having to translate it through music is difficult.

[1292] And I am opinionated to an extent sometimes they can get me in trouble with some shit and I hate that.

[1293] That really does annoy me because it's like everyone's entitled to so they want to say about something right?

[1294] You can disagree on, you know, whatever.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] But I think for me I hide behind humor a lot.

[1297] I make everything I count funny.

[1298] And then that will leave it to not be as offensive.

[1299] Oh, okay.

[1300] Interesting.

[1301] I really want to get an eye of when you look towards the future professionally.

[1302] What is the positioning that Liam Payne is hoping for?

[1303] I guess, from what you've described for Bear, you just want to be doing things you enjoy.

[1304] Yeah, I think so.

[1305] And I think that's, you know, there's been a slow road up to that point.

[1306] And it's just doing things with the right reasons.

[1307] I mean, we're in a beautiful age right now.

[1308] You are your own press, which is actually great for artists.

[1309] If we learn to do it the right way.

[1310] this whole thing I used to hate was going on and off talk shows going on enough and doing this doing everything else that seemed to be for everybody else and it was promo in your record but then the record bites and you get nothing out of it and it's like everybody else got there five minutes but the record just didn't do what it wanted so it's like you know I want to experiment with the way I promo my records so make sure that the record is taken before I go and halfway around the world going oh look listen to this great song and then no one hears it oh great that worked well you know what I mean but it's like almost you know I think the music industry and listen up people, I think the music industry is in a place where people need to throw out the old, the old, you know, marketing format for these things.

[1311] And it's almost like when you see companies that try and do TikToks, don't do it like that, because we can see right through what you're doing.

[1312] You've made a TikTok.

[1313] And I was supposed to that, but it's not funny.

[1314] And it's the same for the music industry.

[1315] It's like, there's a new way that people are promo in things now.

[1316] You know, Billy Eilish came from a bedroom and did this and da -da -da, and it worked out really well.

[1317] But it wasn't the same format that you used.

[1318] back in 2010.

[1319] Even on, I mean, the way the industry has changed while I've been in it has been wild and I've only been here, I've been here a decade, just over a decade now.

[1320] But it's insane, but I just think record labels and sometimes people spend budget on stuff that they don't need to do.

[1321] You have your format, you have your fan base, grow it organically, properly, not through, you know, I don't know, the way we're doing things at the moment because sometimes it's just like, I don't know why the hell we're doing this.

[1322] social media your relationship with it that's been my industry for the last decade good thing bad thing what's your relationship with at the moment I think it's good I think it's a difficult thing to manage I love the idea of what TikTok does but for me I don't want to get sucked into my phone with like watching stuff constantly and you do and you need to be on your learning stuff and you know it's the odd funny video or whatever else but if your for you page is just like funny dogs and then you're in a what the hell's going on you know that's what that's what it does to me i'm like god really so i i don't know it's um i've seen a lot of different technology coming in and go out of my industry from the time from twitter and i you know i honestly think there's a strong case for saying that we owe a little bit of our success to the way twitter was because worldwide trends weren't a thing before one direction before one direction were an x factor whereas on that night we could trend everywhere and then people would go oh my god what's this as though, you know, magically, oh, the biggest band on X Factor was the same time Twitter came out.

[1323] It's perfect storm stuff, you know.

[1324] So I think it's great.

[1325] I think we have a funny way, like I say, with the coins, that, you know, the markets just had the most weird few months of people making Ho -coin, Ho -Coyn Plus, Ho -Coyn Extra, Ho -Coyn there's, and there's 90 of them.

[1326] And I'm hearing all of my friends going, oh, did you buy doggie doos, 21?

[1327] No, no, no, I bought Star -Porn.

[1328] You know what I mean?

[1329] I'm like, what the hell have we doing?

[1330] We're talking in code, you know?

[1331] And it's like, but rather than the technology that works, Ripple, Ethereum, you know, things that have real world application rather than coins that are, hey, everyone, I made a coin that's about, you know, tripods for cameras.

[1332] This tends to happen at the start of these like exponential bubbles.

[1333] And then it weeds out the crap.

[1334] Weeds out the crap.

[1335] That feels like what's happened recently to me. The markets took a big dip because they're trying to weed out some of the the stupid stuff.

[1336] And because it's an unregulated thing, it's like, but I find that that's with the same with social media.

[1337] We need to weed out the bad stuff and focus on the good.

[1338] There's a lot of debate at the moment because of the racism that some footballers have experienced.

[1339] Marcus Rashford did a big post the other day.

[1340] That, you know, how do we stop people putting monkey emojis or any kinds of like abuse on, you know, because what I think is happening from a psychological standpoint is they see Liam pain.

[1341] They think he is up there on that mountain.

[1342] That is not a human being.

[1343] if I throw a rock and I hit, I might get a little bit of attention from him.

[1344] So they pick up a rock.

[1345] But that's what I said to you at a start about bringing big look to your level in a way.

[1346] But it's not so much for them that they can get away from not saying something about that.

[1347] You know what I mean?

[1348] I feel they have to speak about it.

[1349] And it's difficult.

[1350] And we are going through a really fast moving area with everything in the moment.

[1351] I mean, you wish there was an algorithm that would just beat that right, but they will find some way of spelling it differently and it will just, you know.

[1352] I think they verify everybody's eye.

[1353] idea.

[1354] I think that would kill 99 % of it.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] I actually thought of a thing for this, for voting, because voting for me was always a really difficult thing.

[1357] We all have our iPhones, we have our thumbprint that goes on, why can't we verify via thumbprint to get a count and then that's on your record?

[1358] There was that great Black Mirror episode where that woman's going through life trying to get these likes and she's like desperate.

[1359] You've seen that.

[1360] Oh my God, please, I need to be in this neighborhood but I know I was a five star this morning.

[1361] Yeah, she's like, oh my God, I mean, you're horrible crap on the way, darling.

[1362] I'm sorry.

[1363] But that's what life will eventually be policed by, I imagine, in a way.

[1364] Speaking of Black Mirror, I guess this is a strange tangent, but when I had Johann Hari on the podcast last week, one of the key themes here is that all this technology in social media has, like, taken the meaning out of our lives because, like, dating now happens on these screens.

[1365] People order their food by, like, tap, tap, and it shows up at the door.

[1366] Even now with COVID, we're now working from screens.

[1367] We used to have an office or, you know, offices we could go.

[1368] now it's all screens.

[1369] And it feels like the world is getting more and more socialistic.

[1370] I mean, what's amazing is we were also worried about technology pushing us away from each other when COVID hit, right?

[1371] Yeah.

[1372] But it was the only thing that saved us, thank God, when COVID did hit, which I thought said a lot more about technology's good sides and it did about the bad sides.

[1373] I mean, it's up to you how you use your platform in the end and what you let it do to you.

[1374] Like I say, I enjoy TikTok, but I watch a few videos and I watch things that people send me. I don't really have a for you page.

[1375] I don't really go through it constantly.

[1376] because there's, you know, I mean, it's difficult with kids and screens, man. Like, I have one and I watch him and I'm like, oh, I really want to, like, you know, we go, I make him go out and do stuff and sometimes we fall out big.

[1377] We have a row and about, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not, sometimes it's not good.

[1378] But he's learning with it, you know, and it's, like you say, for all of us, we are the guinea pig generation for these things.

[1379] We're learning, you know, we're the first.

[1380] Yeah, we're the connected generation to be affected by an algorithm.

[1381] And to be connected.

[1382] What about the people who first experienced hay fever?

[1383] They figured out the way around that, you know what I mean?

[1384] It's like, for me, it seems like we will figure out the right things of it, but it's weeding out the bad sides of it and what it does.

[1385] Like, I think if your TikTok screen is advice and videos about learning stuff or like stuff that you're actually really interested in, you enjoy, not just random funny crap, because that's what you've been framed was, right?

[1386] You want to find yourself watching you've been framed all day?

[1387] Really?

[1388] Because that's what you're doing.

[1389] Or even worse, on Instagram, keeping up with the Kardashians.

[1390] Oh, look, she's amazing.

[1391] She's 10 out of 10.

[1392] Oh, and she's rich.

[1393] Oh, her life's perfect.

[1394] And look at my life sat here in my boxing shorts eat, this pot noodle with my cellul life.

[1395] Yeah, but that's such a illusion because I bet you.

[1396] Of course it's an illusion.

[1397] But it's an illusion designed to destroy yourself esteem, isn't it?

[1398] And it's like.

[1399] But I also think there's, I think there's a fine line between these, these things.

[1400] And accepting and accepting everybody and all this stuff is a given.

[1401] But I don't think that in the process of that, we want to lose the thing to settle for us.

[1402] You know, there was a big debate about me on loose swimming at one point, which I was all right with it.

[1403] It was okay.

[1404] I understood what they were saying.

[1405] But I worked really hard for what I did in my underwear commercial, you know.

[1406] And it was, it did overtake my life in certain respects.

[1407] Yeah, for sure, it did.

[1408] But it was actually an aim of mine.

[1409] It's one of the only things I've ever aimed for was to try and do an underwear commercial.

[1410] So I remember, I went to my meeting with the company I was working with.

[1411] And they were like, no, no, we don't want to do that with you.

[1412] And I was like, no, trust me. And they gave, to be fair, they put the trust in me. I went and train my ass off and I got myself where I went.

[1413] wanting to be.

[1414] But then it was like people worrying about people's self -esteem looking at the picture and whatever else.

[1415] I get that.

[1416] But I quite enjoy the idea of looking at someone and being like, wow, that's cool, man. Like, I'm going to go out and get that.

[1417] Why do you want an underwear commercial?

[1418] I just thought I could do it.

[1419] I thought I could.

[1420] And I wanted to challenge myself in the gym to, it was, you know, it's hard to be strictly about looking the gym.

[1421] Sure.

[1422] And not function, which that was the bit I battled with myself a little bit.

[1423] But it's like, yeah, I think, you know, you want to go out and get it.

[1424] But I don't think we should, like I say, and accepting everybody let's not lose the idea of striving for something as well though because it's so right to say yeah I'm I'm perfect was that an advert I saw somewhere the other day and I thought are we really that narcissistic that we have to call all ourselves perfect for everyone to be okay with each other like and like I might get in trouble for saying some of this stuff but it's just my thought is like I want to teach the next generation to strive for things as much as I want to feel them to feel confident themselves but it's like it's almost not being a parent right you're going to mess them up somehow like if we start saying we're perfect I guarantee next to be like well, that's not worked out well, so let's rewrite the plan on that one, you know?

[1425] And I just think everyone just, you know, give each other a break and just go do what you like.

[1426] Have you, have you figured, because it's taken me some time to try and understand what it is that actually makes me happy.

[1427] I used to, once upon a time when I was broke.

[1428] This is a big one.

[1429] I was going to end on this big question, but I used to think it was like, oh, I'll get a Lamborghini and then I'll be happy.

[1430] And that's why my book is called Happy, Sexy Millionaire, because I thought that I wrote in the first page in my diary at 18, I wrote, Rangerover, bear in mind, I didn't have a driverless and I was stealing Chicago Town pizzas at the time.

[1431] Range Rover Sport will be my first car.

[1432] I'll make a million before I'm 25.

[1433] I'll get a really hot girlfriend and I'll work on my body image.

[1434] What I meant is I'll get a six -pack.

[1435] I just didn't want to write that.

[1436] And I thought, that is the goal of life.

[1437] I get those things.

[1438] Rangerover was my first car.

[1439] I made a million before I'm 25.

[1440] And I'm like, where is the confetti?

[1441] And if that's not it, then what the fuck is life about?

[1442] I mean, what happens when you wake up and every day is a dream?

[1443] I mean, that'll mess you up.

[1444] I often have looked for the moment in life where I bang my head and I might be in some sort of comorous dream that I've invented for myself.

[1445] Like that I was that messed up at some point, I was like, I'm sure this is a simulation, guys.

[1446] I must have made this wall because I can't be here because of where I was yesterday.

[1447] So it was, you know, there's those wild things that if you let them creep in, they will F you up bad.

[1448] Someone says to me to be quite interesting the other day.

[1449] Our view of what we hunt for as humans has changed.

[1450] We don't hunt for food anymore.

[1451] We hunt for success.

[1452] It's almost like the target went from animals, and corn and food to friggin Lamborghinis and that sort of stuff but that's what we strive for now even to the point like you were saying earlier about your you're so glad he was here because that supplements your food sometimes you're that driven by your drive that you forget you're going to eat sometimes and I was the same at work oh my God I'm terrible like I'm known for skipping lunch breaks and working through the day to get home quicker because I can go without I'll just must run through but think about that you've gone past your basic survival instinct to wild right Like, fighting against your health for, like, coins?

[1453] Yeah, exactly.

[1454] I might miss this thing that I'm exactly the same.

[1455] It's something I think that we struggle with in this respects.

[1456] And it's like, I don't know anything about what makes me happy at this point.

[1457] I really don't.

[1458] Really?

[1459] No, I've found a couple of things that I think I'm interested in.

[1460] But, like, the thing is, once you start making money on these scales and things that happen, it only becomes the drive that's interesting to you if it's going to fast forward you somehow.

[1461] And that's not that toxic thing that we're funny enough, we've come full circle.

[1462] But it's the same sort of thing.

[1463] And I think it's a big problem for me. Because if it's not, I'm thinking, why am I?

[1464] And that's why drawing for me was the biggest one at the time.

[1465] Because I was like, this is what children do.

[1466] Why should I do this?

[1467] And it's funny that I drew something that was about being a child, was that it's weird how things go full circle in that respect.

[1468] But yeah, I often struggle to get on with something if I don't think it's forwarding me in life somehow, rather than just enjoying the moment or going out and watching the sunset.

[1469] One of my biggest things that made me happy while I was training was 4 a .m. getting up in the dark and this sounds like I am some sort of psychopath and I was.

[1470] But you're like, go into the park, run for a little bit and then stand on the thing and watch the sunrise was the best thing.

[1471] And you know why?

[1472] It's fucking free.

[1473] You can stand and watch a sunrise and go, wow, thanks for another day sort of thing.

[1474] I know that sounds really woo -sar and like really far out spiritual.

[1475] But for me it wasn't like that.

[1476] I just enjoyed seeing how beautiful this moment was.

[1477] And I was the only person in Hyde Park running at 4 a .m. every single day.

[1478] And it was some of the best time I've had in life.

[1479] They've done studies kind of linking to what you're saying there where if they give someone a game, I wrote about this a little bit in my book, if they give someone a game that they enjoy, people will do it.

[1480] And I'll have high motivation to do it.

[1481] If you then pay the same person to do the same game, their motivation will decrease.

[1482] I have a big problem with this.

[1483] So you can love doing something.

[1484] And then the minute the reward starts to become extrinsic, which is external, which is money, your motivation decreases and this is why it's it's very very important even for me with this podcast i started it because i love doing it love meeting people when it starts becoming commercial thing it moves into being a job and then the science says my motivation will decrease so it's interesting there because you talked about your drawing you started drawing because it was a and then it becomes this and it becomes an nft team and it becomes a business and then it's hard to do and then you're like oh my god i don't want to do this and i'm here again yeah exactly yeah exactly you said you've not figured out what makes you happy definitely not yet now ask me in a few years I mean, so what's my conclusive point been for what makes me happy?

[1485] Professionally, it's super clear for me now.

[1486] Having a, and these are key words, so a worthwhile challenge that I'm doing with people that I love.

[1487] And I've come up with that based on a ton of things.

[1488] Some of the things you've said fit perfectly into it.

[1489] When you look at Tyson Fury when he's not in the gym, depressed, when you look at goal Olympians, whether they win or lose at the Olympics, they get depression because they've reached the mountaintop and there's nothing else to strive for.

[1490] And so when I was going through my notes, I was thinking the day that someone offered me 50 -odd million to buy my business was one of the worst days of my life.

[1491] And Gary Vaynerchuk, I know you're doing some stuff with him.

[1492] He says the same thing.

[1493] When I spoke to him on the podcast, he was like, the day when I buy the New York Jets will be the worst day of my life.

[1494] It was like, I hope it happens on my deathbed because not having something to strive for.

[1495] And this has been a big struggle around for me. You lose orientation, right?

[1496] When you're training for the Olympics, we're going this way.

[1497] This is our purpose in life.

[1498] When the Olympics is over, you ain't got no fucking direction.

[1499] Well, I mean, look at this.

[1500] I'm talking about direction.

[1501] That whole thing for me and that mountain for me was 1D.

[1502] And music after that, like I said, you're never going to keep up with what we did.

[1503] Now, we sold so many records and we did so many records.

[1504] We did so many things.

[1505] You know, I mean, we were in stadiums every day, 94 ,000 people every day.

[1506] Like I was in like, I used to break into Wembley Stadium on the nighttime because it was fun and I was smashed.

[1507] And I thought these people aren't going to recognize me. He used to have broken into every major stadium in America, honestly.

[1508] And then people used to chase us on these like police like little squad bikes being like, hey, sir, you're not supposed to be in here.

[1509] And we'd run because it was like a game of tag.

[1510] I swear to God.

[1511] There was this one time we opened up a door and found a Zamboni.

[1512] You know, the thing that squashes the ice and we accidentally emptied the like two ton of water on the floor.

[1513] I don't know.

[1514] I might have to pay for that.

[1515] No, I said it.

[1516] yeah so once you reach that height I suppose one of the reasons I struggled the most out of it is because you're never really going to reach that height again and then it's almost like limbo and also not knowing whether or not we're going to come back are we going to come back everyone's asking oh no to do that and it feels like pressure to come back it's almost like your parents going when's baby two coming you know what I mean it's like oh I don't know we've got to have another one so that's that's wild to me and having to deal with that at a young age and I was always going to mess it up somewhere is what I would say about myself because that's like he said says the worst day ever, you know, the day the band ended, I was like, thank Lord for that.

[1517] And I know a lot of people are going to be mad at me for saying that, but I needed to stop or it would kill me. And I was like, thank the Lord.

[1518] And then after that, trying to like funnel your way back into society, be like, hey, guys, I'm still here.

[1519] Turning up at Tesco's in a Lamborghini, like an idiot, you know, I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?

[1520] And for a lot of that, yeah, I agree with a lot of that statement.

[1521] It's, you need to have something to strive.

[1522] for and I feel like I'm finding that a little bit more now and learning to relax.

[1523] Yeah, you've talked a lot about this.

[1524] Learning to relax, learning to just be, you know, a lot of people be part of the moment, man, be in the moment.

[1525] And like, I'm like, bullshit.

[1526] But it's true.

[1527] If you can just sit, you know, and enjoy something for what it is for five minutes.

[1528] Have you tried meditation?

[1529] My ex, Cheryl, is very big on meditation.

[1530] She sent me one the other day and I got told off for not doing it again.

[1531] Meditation gets me in trouble these days.

[1532] Um, no, I need to, I, I, I, I did a couple of things in meditation with my old personal training that were quite good, but I just, my mind's so fucking busy.

[1533] I can't shut it up.

[1534] Like the moment I'm trying to not think about it.

[1535] I'm like, oh yeah, but what about if we just did this next week?

[1536] And I know you'll be exactly the same.

[1537] That's what I'm saying.

[1538] I'm like trying so fucking hard with this meditation is then.

[1539] Let's do it together.

[1540] I'm showing up every morning and I'm like, Steve, close the tabs.

[1541] And every morning I'm sat there and I love that on the fucking floor of my shower because it's like, it's like, it looks like it's from Thailand.

[1542] And the water's pouring and I'm like, just don't think about anything.

[1543] And then I'm like, I'm planning all that schedule in my head.

[1544] I'm like, Liam's coming for the podcast, man. What shall I speak to him about?

[1545] And then, you know, I just...

[1546] What you do in the two senses thing where you, like, think of, like, what you can hear and what you can smell.

[1547] I've tried all of them.

[1548] I've tried this one with beads where you, like, hold the beads and you just move the beads through your hand.

[1549] The simulation, like, yeah, yeah.

[1550] I like the two senses ones, not bad.

[1551] It's good in the shower as well.

[1552] If you, like, close your eyes, then pick two senses, which you can choose, like, feel.

[1553] Oh, interesting.

[1554] I've not tried that.

[1555] So your mind can only do two senses at once.

[1556] So once you shut some of them off that's technically meditation because you're in the moment but I still don't feel like I've had that I'm not a monk at this point I wish I was I think it's important though I get it I do understand it but I also think Imagine if you could get your mind Just to be in the present moment fully And just be right here If I did have done that at school I'd have been I'd been top of the class But my mind's going Oh yeah What are we going to do at lunchtime I'm not going to give up So I'm going to keep trying Every morning naked on my bathroom floor Now that's what I want to keep doing it worthwhile challenge with people you love so worthwhile you define it yourself right challenge means it can't be easy because then your motivation won't be high and then surrounded by people you love for me that is where I've figured out my happiness lives and so upon leaving my company that I'd founded for 10 years now I'm like learning to DJ doing a big theatrical play at the Albert Hall which we've directed and produced I'm just trying I'm throwing my hand at everything biotech no I'm the same you know and and that's That's what I was thinking from what you were saying.

[1557] You're like, you're never going to top that mountain.

[1558] So where's, what is the mountain?

[1559] I mean, we've done so many random, you know, the trip to Namibia with that was one of the things and we jumped.

[1560] We did a world first of a canyon swing in Namibia, which was really crazy and wild, and I thought I might die on national television.

[1561] That is okay.

[1562] What else do we do?

[1563] I'm doing this NFT, things really interesting.

[1564] Doing the online shows because we were one of the first people to really like pioneer with the companies of things.

[1565] my team were massive, massive behind that.

[1566] But it was almost like making a TV show every week with new songs and songs that I hadn't sang since whatever songs I'd never heard before and I just would turn up and do it.

[1567] And it really really, really well and I loved that.

[1568] I don't know, I think I've had many, many, many jobs.

[1569] I've got like a laundromist.

[1570] To the point where when the census came, I didn't know what the hell to write.

[1571] I didn't want a write performer because I think it just sounds like such a bodge off job of like, it doesn't encapsual anything that I actually do.

[1572] I mean, we designed clothes for Hugo, underwear modeling, da -da -da -da -da -da -da, loads of stuff.

[1573] So, um...

[1574] Do you think maybe you just need a really big, fucking scary, terrifying goal that you really care about?

[1575] Well, I mean, someone did ask me to go and do Everest at one point, and I was like, I don't know, I might die on that one.

[1576] But does that not make you a little bit, like, right, now we've got something to aim for, get in the gym.

[1577] Yeah, I mean, in a way, I'm already, there's something I'm cooking up in my brain.

[1578] I'm not going to, I'm not going to talk about here because it does come off, but I'm cooking something up at the moment.

[1579] It's very gym -orientated, and I'm definitely going to give it a big, big go.

[1580] Something's me off.

[1581] And I thought I just had to do it.

[1582] I think the one thing I'll say about success and about these things, if I'm honest about happiness, I think it's learning to have respect for yourself.

[1583] I mean, there's a lot of things people say about don't base yourself on others and never look at other people in that way, which I actually think you need to throw out the window.

[1584] Because there's, when I was like, it's almost weird.

[1585] I learned it from my character design.

[1586] When I was designing characters, I didn't start from nowhere.

[1587] And how I learned to design characters was like, how do you make a dragon if you've never seen one?

[1588] I do know what dragon.

[1589] They won.

[1590] So they mix it with a, with, exactly, this is funny.

[1591] So they mix it with a lion, mixed with a snake, mixed with a crocodile, mixed with a dinosaur.

[1592] Because they're the ones that we have.

[1593] So they base them off of stuff.

[1594] So I like, look at people who are my heroes, and I think, what is it that I love about them, that I don't think I possess yet?

[1595] And then that's how you know you can respect yourself.

[1596] And I think that's the most important thing for me is I get up in the morning and I respect myself.

[1597] I go, but on nighttime I respect myself.

[1598] I'm happy.

[1599] But certain things are my, about my life.

[1600] Even this moment, I want to change.

[1601] But it's like Christian Bale, for example, I love his acting go -to.

[1602] And I mean, some things he's done his career have been really unhealthy when you did the machinist and stuff like that.

[1603] But I like that drive and I like the fact that he like buries himself into a role and stuff.

[1604] And I've never learned that quite yet.

[1605] So that might be one of the things I want to steal.

[1606] Exactly.

[1607] It's almost, yeah, it's like taking people's stuff, but you molding it into your own character.

[1608] We were talking today about avatars, which is obviously a huge market at the moment.

[1609] People spend so much time.

[1610] on their avatars, on their games when they start something.

[1611] But in life, you are your avatar.

[1612] You do whatever you want.

[1613] And it's like, if you're making your avatar and you've got to go and do 10 free kicks to earn the next Ronaldo boot, you're like, oh, I'll get in there and do them.

[1614] The moment someone asks you do something in life to earn something, you're like, I don't want to do it.

[1615] But it's like, that's why I was trying to think how we explain that to kids.

[1616] But that's the most basic analogy I can come up with, you know?

[1617] Children's book.

[1618] Children's book.

[1619] I had an idea for children's book, actually, but we didn't finish it.

[1620] That's a lot of the real things in my eyes.

[1621] He's smiling at me. well then we've talked about so much today um so much so much inspiration and you know a lot of the questions i ask are based on it's amazing amazing conversation and um i really really respect and appreciate your willingness to be open and honest about all these things because you're helping so many people you don't even realize it i i do hope so you know and um i think you're just a tremendously inspirational guy you're you know an incredible entrepreneur which i don't think people are fully um appreciated yet because you're very you're not you've not sort of disclosed all of the investments and businesses you're involved in, but I think that's certainly coming.

[1622] I think we might have a bit of a European Ashton culture on our hands, if I say so myself.

[1623] But yeah, thank you, mate.

[1624] Honestly, you know, you've been through what is a unique, just tremendously unique experience over the last decade.

[1625] Nobody can understand it other than probably the boys you did it with.

[1626] And from that, you know, there's ups, there's downs, but this is life, right?

[1627] And you sharing it has brought tremendous value for me, so I know it will definitely be.

[1628] bring huge value for our audience.

[1629] So I just want to say thank you.

[1630] No, I think, mate, thank, honest, this has been one of the best chats I've had over time.

[1631] Oh, thank you.

[1632] And I'm excited to see what you bring to the table on Dragon's Den.

[1633] I can't wait to watch it.

[1634] Oh, I'm buzzing.

[1635] Maybe you can come in with some of your ideas.

[1636] I know, I'll come and pitch something.

[1637] I'll be in there.

[1638] You should be a dragon once.

[1639] I was actually thinking you're coming in disguise.

[1640] We'll do one week where I'll like, aunt and deck the shit out of you.

[1641] I'll just come on and be like, right, I've got this idea for swimming pools on roos.

[1642] Would you ever be a dragon?

[1643] Um, oh, I think I'd be a terrible dragon.

[1644] I don't know.

[1645] I feel bad for people and I want to be like, oh, no, just like, I'll buy it.

[1646] I'll take it.

[1647] Thank you, brother.

[1648] Appreciate you.

[1649] I appreciate.

[1650] Thank you.