On the Road With Ukraine’s Refugees

[0] From a New York Times, I'm Michael Babaro.

[1] This is a daily.

[2] In response to Russia's increasingly brutal campaign against Ukrainian towns and cities, an estimated 1 .5 million people, most of them women and children, have fled Ukraine over the past 10 days, the fastest displacement of people in Europe since World War II.

[3] Today, Sabrina Tavernisi, traveled alongside them as they made their escape.

[4] It's Monday, March 7th.

[5] We're leaving the hotel room.

[6] What time is it, Valerie?

[7] 4 .10.

[8] It's 4 .10 p .m. on Tuesday.

[9] And we're leaving the hotel room in Kiev, walking through a very dark hallway to an elevator that will bring us down to the car where we will drive south and west.

[10] Last Tuesday, the New York Times.

[11] Times made the decision to pull a group of reporters out of Kiev and bring them to a city in Western Ukraine that was safer, called Lviv.

[12] I was one of those reporters, and so was my colleague Valerie Hopkins.

[13] The drive was supposed to take seven hours.

[14] Instead, it took us two days and two nights.

[15] And just as we closed the trunk in the parking lot of the hotel, we heard this huge bang, and then another.

[16] We just heard some artillery.

[17] Unclear if it's incoming or outgoing.

[18] We got into the car and drove out and some ambulances driving by.

[19] Later, we would discover that those two booms were Russian military trying to blow up the television tower in downtown Kiev.

[20] The truck, the traffic lights have stopped working and are all just blinking.

[21] It's really, really sad.

[22] They're so empty.

[23] We're just driving through an intersection.

[24] where there are some very serious -looking barricades.

[25] A bunch of sandbacks and probably a couple of dozen men in black uniforms walking across the street holding rifles.

[26] After driving down those back roads out of Kiev, under that really dark, low sky, we stayed in the town of Biela at Sikvah, and we were woken up by another, enormous boom.

[27] We kept driving that next day, and we thought we'd pretty easily be in Lviv by dinner time.

[28] But we just kept getting stuck.

[29] I mean, it was checkpoint after checkpoint, and this unbelievable crush of cars.

[30] It's 4 .50 p .m. on Wednesday, and we're in a line of cars as far as the eye can see on the highway going west toward Volf from Vinica.

[31] Everybody has cars packed with kids, animals, suitcases.

[32] Woman holding a little boy just waved at me. Lots of cars with handmade signs in the window, taped to the windows, saying children.

[33] DETI is just stretched on for miles and miles and miles.

[34] Just going slowly, maybe five kilometers an hour.

[35] and we're kind of neck and neck so I'm going to stick my head out of the window here and see if someone will talk to me Do you speak English?

[36] For Russian?

[37] I'm from New York Times and me's called Sabrina.

[38] Where are you today are you?

[39] Where?

[40] Krobynitsky.

[41] And how are you going from?

[42] We've been driving for six hours now.

[43] Valeri, very very nice, and get his name is Valeri and he has little kids in the back.

[44] How do you feel you now, Valeria?

[45] Because the family will, and I'll stay.

[46] I'm really feeling quite down because my family is going out and I'm going to need to stay.

[47] What happened in your city when we went?

[48] I was in Carbogradia.

[49] I was in Odessa before, and Adesas are already explosions starting in Odessa.

[50] What are you guys in your heart?

[51] What are your feelings in your heart right now?

[52] And they said, very, very heavy, very pressed down.

[53] And his wife is starting to cry.

[54] Thank you.

[55] I'm from New York Times.

[56] I'm from New York Times.

[57] You're from Sherninova.

[58] They're coming from Cherninova.

[59] Your name is Dmitri.

[60] How's how are you in this traffic?

[61] We've went to Shernigua before yesterday.

[62] Oh, they left the day before yesterday.

[63] Why then?

[64] Why two days ago?

[65] Because we've got to sit in a big of the grave in the twilight.

[66] We were really tired of.

[67] sitting in the basement in a coffin.

[68] The planes were flying overhead.

[69] Above my house was a war going full force.

[70] Children are crying.

[71] The old people are stuck in the houses.

[72] Their planes flying over.

[73] They can't get out.

[74] Just tell them to help.

[75] Tell them to stop this.

[76] Tell them to stop what's happening.

[77] If you can tell somebody, just communicate this, you have to stop this somehow.

[78] My friend remains there.

[79] We just left.

[80] They told us it was mined.

[81] Please, please tell them to stop it.

[82] There were lots of moms consoling children, sitting on their lap, sitting in the back, playing with toys.

[83] It's really heavy.

[84] It's really heavy.

[85] Children in the back.

[86] One little baby had a stuffed mobile, hung above her head, made of cloth mushrooms.

[87] Hi, I'm a reporter from the New York Times.

[88] Will you talk to me?

[89] Everybody talked about what it was that pushed them to actually go.

[90] There were so many explosions last night.

[91] The children were very afraid.

[92] And for the most part, it was explosions, bombs.

[93] So we're trying to get somewhere that is safe.

[94] Children feeling terrified, having to go down into basements all the time.

[95] And parents just decided they'd had enough.

[96] Where are you coming from?

[97] From Kiev.

[98] I'm from Kiev.

[99] We are all from Q. Thank you, too.

[100] You're welcome.

[101] Slavu, Ukraine!

[102] Oh, my goodness.

[103] Whoa, we finally reached the checkpoint.

[104] Oh, oops.

[105] Good day.

[106] Good day.

[107] Hello, New York Times.

[108] By the end of the day on Wednesday, it became pretty clear that we were never going to make it to Leviv that night.

[109] It was already getting dark, and we needed to stop for the night.

[110] night.

[111] And we were calling everywhere, any hotel, and everything was full.

[112] Nothing had rooms.

[113] And at some point, my colleague, Valerie, reached someone in a town called Vietihti, who said there was actually space at a kindergarten in their town.

[114] And it didn't seem like a great option, but it was dark and it was snowing.

[115] And at that point, we didn't have a better idea.

[116] So we drove to the town and we got out and a man greeted us and introduced himself as the mayor of the town and he said we just needed to bring our passports up to the second floor register and then we could have the room in the kindergarten.

[117] Hi, I'm Sabrina.

[118] Hi.

[119] Nice to meet you too.

[120] Thank you for being here.

[121] It took us into the kindergarten and it was this.

[122] Oh, we're in a kindergarten and there's a little Oh, there's little cubbies.

[123] Really brightly painted series of rooms.

[124] Little cubbies, little child -sized seats.

[125] There's painting of a giraffe and a palm tree on the wall.

[126] And a lot of spider plants.

[127] Little silk flowers.

[128] And lots of little child -sized mattresses.

[129] Come here, come here.

[130] Aksana's showing us the kitchen.

[131] Oh, wow.

[132] The tea, uh -huh, the tea, the teapot, instant coffee, and then there's tea bags.

[133] So we started to settle in for the night, and a very kind woman who ran the kindergarten made food for us.

[134] She made us tea.

[135] She met us spicy rice with chicken.

[136] And she had a huge jar of pickles that she had made herself, that she brought out, and we each took a pickle.

[137] We had dinner at a tiny little child -sized table sitting on tiny little child -sized table sitting on tiny little child -sized chairs.

[138] Asking if this is the other family, can I have to say hello?

[139] And pretty soon another family showed up.

[140] Okay, so Luda, Anya, Anna, Ira, Ira, Max.

[141] Okay, so Luda is grandmother and then three grandchildren.

[142] Yes.

[143] Yeah, nice.

[144] How old?

[145] How old are you?

[146] You're 12.

[147] How old are you?

[148] 19.

[149] 19.

[150] How old are you, Max?

[151] 15 You're 15 How's How's how we were driving for 12 hours Yeah Did you come from Kiev?

[152] Is Kyiv?

[153] No, no Cherkasa Oh, Cherkassi They came from Cherkassi A little bit below What was What was What was What was I'm saying What happened in Cherkassi And they're saying Explosions What kind of My family, that's going to go ahead.

[154] My family, who's living in Poland.

[155] And my mom was calling every day.

[156] She's really worried.

[157] She's crying.

[158] The truth is, I would actually like to stay.

[159] I think I would be helpful in some way.

[160] I think I would be helpful in some way.

[161] But my mom, I want to be with her, really, I want to be with her.

[162] Aira, how, like, what are you feeling right now in your heart?

[163] I went to get in the machine, I almost didn't want to play to the, because I'm going to the car and I was feeling like I was going to cry because I felt like I was leaving my country and it was actually war and I was I was leaving my country.

[164] It's a really horrible feeling, actually.

[165] You hear this every day, but it's horrible.

[166] You hear this every day, it's horrible.

[167] Papa, a man, here, is there to do the baron, to protect, and it will be on these blockposts to stay.

[168] But it's also in the town, and so is my boyfriend, and my boyfriend actually went to do the, the checkpoints and that can be a dangerous thing in town to man the checkpoints.

[169] So he stayed there and he won't leave.

[170] And one hand I'm really proud.

[171] And on the other side I was trying to convince him not to do it.

[172] But then I thought, no, okay, go.

[173] Smeud?

[174] cakes with meat, and they're so good.

[175] While we were there standing in the kindergarten talking, a woman walked in.

[176] Her name was Larissa.

[177] She owned a hotel right down the street, and she told us it was overflowing.

[178] So we're going upstairs.

[179] Lots of people are sleeping, so we're going to try to not make a lot of sound.

[180] She took us to her hotel, and when we went inside, we saw people lying everywhere.

[181] There's a man who's sleeping in the corridor.

[182] In the hallways, under tables.

[183] This is another little place for sleeping underneath a piano.

[184] Next to a piano.

[185] So Aramon is showing me where they're going to be sleeping.

[186] He's carrying a little child.

[187] In a back room that was very small.

[188] Sometimes it feels like it just is an old movie that you're watching in front of your eyes.

[189] Something from Zara's time.

[190] come in, come in, welcome, where you're going to sleep under the table.

[191] There's two women and a young child who just came through the door.

[192] And suddenly we heard these air raid sirens.

[193] And everyone in the hotel moved toward a trap door in the floor and climbed down into the basement.

[194] Oh, it's scary, the little girl says.

[195] Beautrozen.

[196] We're like these days.

[197] They've suffered such days, my children.

[198] We heard, we heard huge blasts.

[199] They were shooting.

[200] We heard how people are suffering.

[201] I just, I just, I just, I just, I was just, when we went out of Kiev, and then I started to cry, When we left, I was trying not to cry in Kiev, but when we left Kiev, I started just crying, and I, the tears couldn't, wouldn't stop.

[202] We really want the Ukrainian army to win to succeed.

[203] We see how it's so unjust, what's happening, so unjust.

[204] We want the Ukrainian army to win.

[205] So we're going back out of the shelter now, back out of the basement.

[206] I guess the danger is over What time is it, you guys?

[207] 1026.

[208] When we got the all -clear after about half an hour, the families climbed back up the stairs into their hallways and back rooms and next to the piano.

[209] And we went back to the kindergarten for the night.

[210] Spakuinan nochi.

[211] Bye.

[212] Good night.

[213] Bye -jezim -Nazade.

[214] We'll be right back.

[215] In the morning, we all got up together.

[216] There was just one bathroom, and at that point, probably 50 people in the kindergarten.

[217] So we all took turns.

[218] My name is Caroline.

[219] You're going to Poland.

[220] So I'm...

[221] We have hamster.

[222] Hamster?

[223] It's in the village with a grandma.

[224] With a grandma.

[225] What's the hamster's name?

[226] Bousia.

[227] Bousia.

[228] What does Bousia mean in Russian?

[229] Bousia.

[230] Oh, it's like a pearl?

[231] Yeah.

[232] Wow, little pearl.

[233] Pearl Hamster.

[234] He's white.

[235] He's white.

[236] Oh, good name.

[237] Good name.

[238] There's a little girl trying to get into the bathroom.

[239] What's her name?

[240] I don't know.

[241] I don't know.

[242] Okay.

[243] I'm asking Caroline all the children's names, but she doesn't know them.

[244] Bye, Ira.

[245] Bye.

[246] We're leaving the school now.

[247] Okay.

[248] It's a very snowy road.

[249] It's 12 .30 on Thursday.

[250] And we're in a checkpoint line in Western Ukraine that's stretched at least two hours, if not more.

[251] we've seen mothers taking little kids to off onto the field on the right side of the road here to pee and go to the bathroom when woman was pulling up her little boys green underpants just a bit ago and we saw a woman helping an elderly woman, Babushka, down the kind of down the sort of grassy area to get to the bottom so she could go to the bathroom and she fell And then she tried to help her, and she was helping her up.

[252] Just an incredibly long line that's all of these people, from all of these parts of Ukraine, from all over, are waiting in to get out.

[253] This is what happens when an entire country tries to evacuate in a week.

[254] We're at the very beginning of the checkpoint line that we've been in for two hours, and we're just pulling up.

[255] 1237.

[256] Hello.

[257] We're going to bea.

[258] Passports.

[259] It looks like a territorial defense guy checking our passports.

[260] He says, okay, go, go, drive.

[261] We finally got to Lvivina.

[262] We finally got to Lviv.

[263] in the afternoon on Thursday.

[264] The city was packed and overflowing.

[265] The train station was swarming with people.

[266] Lviviv is a place where people say goodbye.

[267] Men go back to their towns.

[268] Because the men couldn't leave Ukraine.

[269] Women and children go on to Poland.

[270] We're driving up to the train station, and it is quite crowded streets.

[271] The sidewalks on either side of the road.

[272] the street are just packed.

[273] Lots of children.

[274] And now we're going to get out and go with Alina, the volunteer, who's going to take us to the train station.

[275] When I got to Lviv, I went to the train station with a volunteer named Alina Afremenka.

[276] She's working to help refugee women and children, and she works with them mostly in the train station.

[277] This is a packed sidewalk.

[278] People are leaving the train station flood, just a river of people leaving the train station.

[279] Oh my God, this is an unbelievably packed train station.

[280] You can't move.

[281] It's like a concert.

[282] It's like a concert for the Poland.

[283] Oh, my God.

[284] Yeah.

[285] It's a key for Poland.

[286] But now we are going for the waiting hall for mothers and their children.

[287] Okay.

[288] When our volunteers is situated and from where we are coordinated.

[289] Great.

[290] I'm trying to get through and we can't get through.

[291] Please.

[292] Oh, very huge bags right at my knees.

[293] Oh, okay.

[294] Backpack in my face.

[295] Okay.

[296] Oh, my God.

[297] There's a little boy holding a parakeet, a green parakeet in a clear plastic container that looks like it used to have cherry tomatoes in it.

[298] It's a little parakeet.

[299] Oh, my goodness.

[300] People are grabbing their people are grabbing their bags, moving really suddenly and kind of with some urgency and desperation.

[301] And while we were walking through the main terminal, now talking to the crowd.

[302] There was this surge forward in the crowd.

[303] Everyone was moving toward this tunnel, a kind of underground passage that was packed so tightly, this long line of people trying to get on the train to Poland.

[304] Alina is trying to explain.

[305] I'm speaking.

[306] Be quiet.

[307] These are volunteers here.

[308] They're not many of us.

[309] We need order here.

[310] No panic.

[311] Don't break the rules.

[312] Don't let things get at the hand.

[313] Stop it.

[314] Be quiet.

[315] We've been standing since 11 .30.

[316] Alina is saying, stop.

[317] I mean, putriven to get to get up, people, organize.

[318] I know.

[319] Alina is saying three lines, three lines.

[320] Make way for us.

[321] Make way for us.

[322] Make way for us.

[323] Oh, my God.

[324] Let us through, please let us through.

[325] Let us through.

[326] Let us through.

[327] Oh, my God.

[328] Look.

[329] Oh, shit.

[330] Yeah, it's...

[331] Oh my God.

[332] It's enough.

[333] It was.

[334] Now we've gotten up to the platform.

[335] We're going up to the platform.

[336] The women's and children's room?

[337] Yeah, and our medicine room and our hospital.

[338] Our headquarters.

[339] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[340] So we're going up a stairway, and we're going up to the headquarters of the volunteers.

[341] It's also the place where the women and children can rest.

[342] All, a lot of women.

[343] People sitting on pieces of cardboard.

[344] Oh, rugs.

[345] Oh, wow.

[346] This is a hall of, I would say, probably 400, 500 people in it.

[347] Lots of little babies.

[348] It's a woman in a black puffer jacket.

[349] It's just changing her son's underwear.

[350] A little boy in a blue jacket crying.

[351] Just sobbing on a chair.

[352] Little boy is really sad.

[353] Do you speak English?

[354] yes I do Oh excellent My name is Sabrina I'm a reporter for the New York Times Can I talk to you a little bit Yes Tell me your name I speak English so It sounds very good It sounds very good So what is your name My name is Alona Nice to meet you And it's nice to meet you Ilona where did you come from I'm from Zaporizia A lot of people from the train station today From Zaporizia Yes There are a lot of us Yes Yes.

[355] Ilona, what, how are you feeling right now?

[356] It is very, we are scared.

[357] We are scared and we don't know where we come, what will be in our future.

[358] We don't know.

[359] But we all, everything will better.

[360] We think, we're not doing for the better.

[361] We're really hoping.

[362] We're hoping for the best.

[363] I was looking for the best.

[364] I was leaving my family.

[365] My mom, my are the roadne.

[366] I was...

[367] I was...

[368] I was...

[369] I was...

[370] I was...

[371] I was...

[372] I was...

[373] I was leaving yesterday with my daughter and I just was sobbing in the train.

[374] I left my whole family there.

[375] My husband...

[376] Everybody's still there.

[377] I didn't take anything with me. Just my daughter.

[378] We were with me. We were...

[379] We said...

[380] So, she's She said, she's as a girl, she said, it's a right decision?

[381] I'm going to I don't know.

[382] I don't know.

[383] We both cried yesterday on the train, and this morning she asked me the question as if she was a grown -up girl.

[384] She said, was it the right decision to leave?

[385] And I said, I don't know.

[386] You feel to see, this strange, a niloggy about, you do you feel to bejans?

[387] Do you feel yourself a refugee?

[388] It's a bad question But yes I'm saving my daughter No, I'm saving my daughter I'm not saying I didn't want to I'm from the country I don't want to leave my husband I'm going to work soon I'm going to western Ukraine I'm not leaving the country And I know I'm going to be returning I'm not I don't want that status I don't want that status No, I love my homeland.

[389] Yes, yes.

[390] I'm trying to make the right decision, but I don't know, am I making the right decision?

[391] My husband tells me I need to take her.

[392] We're responsible for her life.

[393] I don't know, it's right, it's not right.

[394] I don't know if it's right, not right.

[395] I just had my family gathered all of our stuff and said, go, you must go.

[396] I'm just sending thoughts out to the cosmos.

[397] It's going to be okay.

[398] It's going to be okay.

[399] Yes, yes.

[400] It's going to be okay.

[401] Okay, how's the name?

[402] Tim, how old are you?

[403] Yeah.

[404] Your name is Tim.

[405] The last person I met in the station was a little boy named Tim.

[406] He was waiting by himself on a pile of suitcases.

[407] Tim, how old are you?

[408] How old are you?

[409] Seven.

[410] Seven.

[411] Seven.

[412] Cool.

[413] Cool.

[414] Mom?

[415] She's upstairs.

[416] She went to get us to.

[417] Upstairs?

[418] I know.

[419] And down...

[420] Downstairs.

[421] Good, Tim.

[422] You know, upstairs and downstairs.

[423] What else do you know in English, Tim?

[424] On Ukrainian.

[425] I speak Russian.

[426] I speak Ukrainian and I speak English.

[427] I speak Ukrainian and I speak English.

[428] Three languages.

[429] I, Tim, where, where we're now?

[430] Right now, I don't know where I am.

[431] I know, where I'm from Slavansk.

[432] I came from Slavansk.

[433] That's where I came from.

[434] My babusk is, like, teakouk.

[435] That's not been.

[436] My coat that my grandmother gave me for the journey.

[437] It's like my grandmother is very warm.

[438] Yes.

[439] Let me tell you a secret.

[440] I'm, I, I, in a machine, I've, I've, I've, I've, in a machine, you know, like?

[441] Wurve a zup?

[442] Yeah, with a perchatk.

[443] This, or this?

[444] I want to tell you a secret that in the car, when I was in the car, I pulled out one of my teeth, actually two, this one and this one, with my glove.

[445] Ah, stop, a, how, how it's so.

[446] Tim was curious about my English, and he said, How do you translate Kyiv?

[447] Kyiv?

[448] Yeah, Kyiv.

[449] I asked him what he meant.

[450] He said, I mean the city, Kyiv.

[451] Yeah, my dad was in Kyiv, when the war.

[452] That's where my dad was when there was still no war.

[453] So Tim has this excellent Lego thing.

[454] It looks like kind of like a big robot.

[455] Tim, you're taking this apart, this thing.

[456] I'm going to do it.

[457] Yeah, I'm redoing it.

[458] On Sunday, for the first time, American officials said that Russian attacks against Ukrainian civilians could constitute war crimes, and that the United States was collecting evidence that could eventually be used for such a charge.

[459] A few hours later, journalists for the Times witnessed the Russian shelling of a street used by civilians to flee fighting north of Kiev.

[460] One of the Russian missiles killed a woman, her two children, and a family friend.

[461] Photographs showed the dead children still wearing their backpacks.

[462] As of Sunday night, according to the UN, at least 364 Ukrainian civilians have been killed and 759 have been injured since the start of the war.

[463] We'll be right back.

[464] Here's what else you need to know today.

[465] Over the weekend, Russian police arrested more than 4 ,000 anti -war protesters who had taken to the streets, despite a set of draconian new laws put in place by Vladimir Putin that make it a crime to oppose the war in Ukraine.

[466] One of those laws could even make it a crime for Russians to call it a war, since Putin has instead described it as a special military operation.

[467] Nevertheless, protesters across Russia were defiant, chanting no to war.

[468] Today's episode was produced by Lindsay Garrison, Sydney Harper, and Caitlin Roberts.

[469] It was edited by Michael Benoit, contains original music by Marion Lazano, and was engineered by Chris Wood.

[470] Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

[471] That's it for the Daily.

[472] I'm Michael Bobarrow.

[473] See you tomorrow.