126 - Nice Office

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] And hello!

[17] Welcome to a very special Saturday episode.

[18] This is so weird for us.

[19] my favorite murder we don't record saturday no we record like midnight on wednesday usually we try to schedule it we're like how painful will this be for stephen to have to edit into the late early morning hours that's right how tired can we make stephen be tomorrow that's all we care about but today because i am going out of town we have to do adjustments for father's day tomorrow that's right and uh so yeah that's the worst because because we just recorded and then we have to turn around and do one more book report real quick.

[20] Or, like, think of new things to talk about because it's not been a week.

[21] I don't have anything.

[22] I mean, what did you get your dad for father's day?

[23] I think we're getting him a new iPhone.

[24] Oh, my goodness.

[25] Because his iPhone, first of all, I've talked about this, but he loves Apple products.

[26] He's a big believer in Apple.

[27] He's owned stock.

[28] Well, he owns stock for a while, but then the market and everything crashed.

[29] So I used to be like, are you rich cats secretly and not telling us?

[30] he's like nope um but he like he very much it's almost like it's a bay area thing a little bit where it's like those boys from san Jose right there are boys yep they were in the garage together and now look at them i like to support those our neighbors those nerds down south um so he he's had a five forever oh my gosh which pretty now fives look i found fives look like credit cards they're so tiny yeah it's like this little thing so now we get to get him a actual man's Well, you get yourself one, too, because you need an upgrade.

[31] Okay.

[32] I also need, thank you for my permission.

[33] I love you for that, because I would never do it.

[34] I'll wait until I drop it.

[35] I can't do it.

[36] That's greedy.

[37] It's greedy.

[38] It is.

[39] I'm selfish.

[40] Greed is good.

[41] No, it's not.

[42] Your phone is slow.

[43] And you're a busy, you're working.

[44] That's basically your office.

[45] So you're like getting a nice office.

[46] That's all.

[47] You're exactly right.

[48] And let me add on a lap.

[49] top to that because mine's right so remember how for a while it would be moody and all of a sudden I couldn't do a pee I wouldn't be able to type pee then I taught I spilled water on it and all kinds of stuff started like everything go orange at one point or something yes it there was some weird screen where I was like did I just win on asteroids what just happened my computer and I for a while I was convinced that there's a Russians are watching me in a strange mirror image on my laptop They are.

[50] But now it just doesn't do stuff sometimes.

[51] Like I'll just be typing and then it just freezes for a while.

[52] I need to throw that thing out.

[53] Do it.

[54] That's what you do, right?

[55] You throw it into a ravine.

[56] It's probably the safest thing to do, actually.

[57] Try to take that battery out and then just huck it off of a street on Mulholland.

[58] Do it.

[59] If you hit someone in the head, you get extra points.

[60] Yeah.

[61] Do it.

[62] I got my dad.

[63] Can I tell you?

[64] I just think it, I almost just did this to like, because I thought this was such a good idea to be like, yes, I'm going to support this.

[65] For Father's Day, there was like a 30 % discount at 23 and me. And I was just like, I fucking love you guys.

[66] That's like the best marketing.

[67] I'm going to get that for my dad.

[68] Oh, I bet he'd love that.

[69] Yeah, he's totally into it.

[70] We like are contacted once by someone who maybe was a family member and all this shit.

[71] And so I got that for him.

[72] And I just love that.

[73] It's like the perfect timing of like, hey, do you all kids want to see if your dad's a murderer?

[74] Like, let's get him a discount.

[75] Let's upload some shit.

[76] Exactly.

[77] You know, I think I told this, but I joined Ancestry .com because my father's, my mother's father was stabbed in a bar fight.

[78] But I was like, what's the detail of that?

[79] I know my family's not telling me the whole story.

[80] Oh, my God.

[81] And no one's ever told anybody the whole story.

[82] And he died?

[83] Yeah.

[84] How was he?

[85] That's how he died.

[86] It was when my mom was 21.

[87] Oh, my God.

[88] And it was the day she found out, and the next day she had to take her nursing test to become a license RN.

[89] And did she passed?

[90] Yes, she did.

[91] Isn't that weird?

[92] That's crazy.

[93] She said she has no memory of taking the test and she doesn't know how she passed it.

[94] She cheated.

[95] That's also on the Ancestry file.

[96] Did you find anything?

[97] No, I couldn't figure out, like, it just brought up, like, a couple things and I couldn't figure out how to make it go to where I wanted.

[98] Dude, we got to go to the Sacramento, the Petaluma Library and get some microfish action going on.

[99] It's San Francisco.

[100] All of those people San Francisco style.

[101] Even more fun.

[102] We'll put on some like, fucking, like scary music while we do it.

[103] Like Starship.

[104] What's that?

[105] You know, Jefferson Airplane later in the 80s became Starship, which is very, they're from the Bay Area and everyone's very proud.

[106] So they buy all their phones.

[107] They do a lot of microfiche research.

[108] Okay, I love it.

[109] Yeah.

[110] That's crazy.

[111] I know.

[112] Isn't that nuts?

[113] Someone looked that up for Karen.

[114] Can you figure out how my grandpa died?

[115] never met him or he wasn't the greatest okay what's that in your hand this is he wasn't the greatest rumor has it according to my mother not the best dad um that uh so last episode i was telling one of my rip off i've survived stories and in it i referenced the i survived story i wasn't talking about the but it was also in the same episode about the man who was attacked by a bear and his dog ladybug who helped him survive and but I didn't know if ladybug had survived and in my mind I'd remembered it because I have watched the entire episode minimum twice but I couldn't remember and he the man himself who tells the story looks sad in the face probably because he had a scalp ripped off by a bear once I mean it's a crazy his story is crazy but he just has a little bit of a like you know hmm nests to him so I was like that's a guy whose dog died that's a guy who's lost all the nerves in his forehead when they sewed his fucking scalp back on it may be although what's nothing's connected up there that's why like well I can't move mine that's because of Botox you see this we should take video Georgia trying to move her face I'm trying to furrow my brows so hard as an example there oh ding and then a muscle pops out of your eye or just the Botox comes squirting out of my forehead and then into my forehead oh my god now I'm a believer.

[116] I was looking at this divot that I have in my forehead that looks, I used to call it the hatchet wound because it's not just a wrinkle, like, it's always been a deep because you furrow your brow all the time.

[117] Yeah, I do all kinds of stuff up here.

[118] Yeah.

[119] But I mean, I don't know, I feel like this needs surgery to go away.

[120] Honey, let me introduce you to the powers that are Botox.

[121] No way.

[122] Absolutely.

[123] That's what it's for, yeah.

[124] But it's deep and I think there's like actually bone loss underneath it.

[125] Oh, did you smack your head?

[126] No, I just keep rubbing my finger on it like this over an hour.

[127] No, I can tell you right now, a little bit of Botox will get rid of that.

[128] Jesus Christ.

[129] A believer.

[130] Maybe I'll be a believer.

[131] What if I do, then suddenly I can't stop talking about Justin Bieber.

[132] What if I do Botox, but only on this and then they leave the rest of my face aged?

[133] You can do that.

[134] Your face isn't aged.

[135] Thanks, Your Honor.

[136] You want to have.

[137] Okay, so this is the update that we got.

[138] It says, update on the dogs of episode 125.

[139] It's from Kristen.

[140] And she says, I was pretty concerned over the fate of the dogs and the I survived stories Karen talked about.

[141] And I mentioned so I had to research.

[142] It turns out in both cases, the dog survived.

[143] Oh, my God, in both the stories.

[144] Both.

[145] Even ladybug, she says.

[146] From the Appalachian.

[147] Appalachian.

[148] No, no, no. Appalachian.

[149] Appalachian.

[150] Yeah, I saw you get corrected on Twitter for that.

[151] Sure.

[152] But also there was a couple of people who are like, every single person says it like this.

[153] That's what I imagine in my mind that they were how they were yelling at me. But then lots of people were like, look, I live over here and I never heard that.

[154] But we got that great tweet of a guy sent us a tweet that said, if you say it Appalachian, I'll throw an Appalachia.

[155] And that's how you know it's Appalachian.

[156] Appalachian.

[157] That's your.

[158] Numonic reminder, whatever it's called.

[159] Okay.

[160] So here's what happened.

[161] From the Appalachian Trail Killer story, Randall Lee Smith, parentheses, why are all serial killers names three words?

[162] We know the answer to that.

[163] Go ahead.

[164] Tell them.

[165] It's because they're not named three words.

[166] They just include their middle name when they identify them so that Randall Smith in fucking Belmont.

[167] What's, where's the place?

[168] Belmont, California.

[169] In Belmont, California, it doesn't suddenly get labeled a serial killer.

[170] Yeah.

[171] And he's like, I'm Randall Marie Smith.

[172] Right.

[173] Please leave me alone.

[174] Randall Marie Smith, you get up on this porch and you stop killing people on the Appalachian Trail.

[175] Okay, so Randall Lee Smith's dog, Bo.

[176] Oh, starving Bo.

[177] Boy dogs named Bo and female dogs named Lady are like the best dogs.

[178] So Bo was adopted, though it wasn't mentioned to whom.

[179] That'd be so weird.

[180] They gave a name picture of the person.

[181] Here's this phone number.

[182] From an article printed at the time, Quote, Randallie Smith was buried next to his mother at the Fairview Cemetery in Narrows.

[183] His dog, Bo, scratched in the dirt at the graveside ceremony, he has since been adopted.

[184] Oh.

[185] That's like...

[186] He still loved his owner.

[187] I think that's the only person that loved Randallie Smith.

[188] Oh, dogs are so good.

[189] Dogs do their best.

[190] They do their best.

[191] And he was like, this is my owner who gave me fish.

[192] And then it's like, no, Scott gave you fish.

[193] Yeah.

[194] Not your owner.

[195] My owner fed me. And I just didn't look when he was doing the other stuff.

[196] So I don't know what happened.

[197] I was taking a nap.

[198] I get distracted.

[199] Anytime there's anything, it smells good.

[200] You guys, there's a squirrel.

[201] I mean, have you met a squirrel?

[202] It's so much fun.

[203] Have you ever been on a trail?

[204] There's a thousand squirrel.

[205] The smells are everywhere.

[206] Everywhere.

[207] There's so much pee.

[208] And then from the bear attack story on the same episode, Ladybug, who helped save her owner from the grizzly mulling, actually did survive.

[209] Quote, I believe that Ladybug saved my life, the man who got attacked, who were still not naming said.

[210] noting that the dog also survived the ordeal and is okay.

[211] Both stories have taught me to stay out of the forest forever.

[212] Stay sexy and don't let your dog get murdered, Kristen.

[213] Good job, Kristen.

[214] Thank you for doing that research.

[215] Good job, Kristen.

[216] If we could all just do my research for me, that would be best.

[217] I have a message from my story last week about the glamour girl slang.

[218] And at the very end, I talk about how there's a possible connection to one other long cold case.

[219] and I say about how the woman's, the, the murder victims, 50 years after she was discovered, the Jane Doe is finally, what am I saying?

[220] Yeah, I hear you.

[221] The German, who it is based on the great niece.

[222] Okay.

[223] Remember that?

[224] She was like, I'm going to sleuth it.

[225] And I was like, I bet she's a murderino.

[226] She messaged us.

[227] Oh, shit, girl.

[228] She says, Michelle Fowler here.

[229] Dot was my great aunt, and the MFM ladies were right.

[230] I am a, quote, fucking murdering.

[231] I just wanted to say thanks for the credit regarding solving dots disappearance but it doesn't all belong to me the dough neck work was what led me to dot the boulder sheriff's department vidicu society v icqq society boulder sylvia pedham and a whole host of people helped identify dot thank you for keeping dots memory alive s sdgm awesome i know that's really cool that's so generous is it i would take all the credit it.

[232] V -I -D -O -C?

[233] Q. Or O -Q?

[234] O -C.

[235] V -I -C -Q.

[236] Steven, Lee, look up and see what that is.

[237] See if you can't get a phonetical pronunciation.

[238] No, or just see what they do and who they are.

[239] She's like, I didn't do it alone.

[240] I would also like to give credit, but this is not related to your case or my case.

[241] This is related to because I'm going up north, I have to board my dogs.

[242] But I've never boarded Frank before because he's from the streets.

[243] and I've always known it wouldn't work out and the place that I board my dogs is pretty intense.

[244] It's like one of those it's like this is a wonderful farm heaven where your dogs can roam free and there's a water park and all this stuff but you they have to pass a test to be boarded there.

[245] It's a don't buy people to face test.

[246] Yes I couldn't pass that.

[247] Could you?

[248] That's hard.

[249] It would be hard for me too.

[250] Yeah.

[251] So he had to go, I dropped them off this morning and then I was like but I want to leave them here because I want to leave tomorrow unless he doesn't pass the test and I had to basically plan because George is in if Frank doesn't get into private school.

[252] The sweet little George girl is just like, I like everybody I want to do what everybody else wants to do.

[253] And fucking Frank is like, I might bite you.

[254] Yeah, Frank's like, I don't trust anyone.

[255] I don't understand what's happening and I just want to bark.

[256] And I'm so close to the ground.

[257] I just am a little, it's a little scary.

[258] Everything is, I have to look up to see anything.

[259] But I don't like looking up.

[260] Yeah.

[261] So he, I got the call.

[262] at noon but Frank passed and they were going to let him stay but it was kind of sad because she said he is a little shy which does not sound like Frank at all he misses you so he's a little freaked out but I think once he because he's separate from George because it's big dogs little dogs but then I'm sure they let them come back together and then he'll be he'll be fine oh my god that's so sweet because he loves my dog zitters dogs oh okay so it's not like he doesn't he'll be fine he'll be fine unless you get a call you need to come pick your dog up ma 'am if Anyone would do it, it's Frank.

[263] He is, I don't know how he does it, but he, like, is the most accident prone.

[264] I told you the time, I've told you this at least twice, the time he stood up to put his head, head out the window in the car, stood on the window, roller down our thing, and began to fall out the window.

[265] And I, as we're driving down my street, I have to lean over and grab him by the tail and pull him back into the car.

[266] I thought you were going to say he stood on the window rolly thing and rolled his fucking face up into the window.

[267] No, he rolled it down and then began to fall out as I'm trying to like get somewhere.

[268] That's terrible.

[269] And that's Frank in a nutshell.

[270] Like he does things where you're like, this is like a, it's like a Rube Goldberg machine of you getting killed and I come in at the last second and save you every time.

[271] Oh my God.

[272] He also, anytime he stands on the couch changes the channel.

[273] Like he always knows to stand right on the clicker.

[274] I love that.

[275] He's amazing.

[276] That's adorable.

[277] Yeah.

[278] Oh, I want to say I'm of a thank you corner.

[279] Okay.

[280] Because I complained about my car key on the last episode, how it unlocked all the car doors automatically.

[281] Oh, yes.

[282] And I mean, everyone from everywhere who's ever owned a car apparently knows that it's easy to fucking change that.

[283] Yes.

[284] And they all told me and I appreciate it.

[285] Oh, good.

[286] And someone even sent me like step by step directions.

[287] Because I clearly haven't done it yet still.

[288] was like, great, good to know.

[289] And then I'll never do it.

[290] Right.

[291] But I appreciate that.

[292] I love that they're like, it's this easy.

[293] I know.

[294] You do this.

[295] You do this.

[296] You do this.

[297] That's why great about this podcast.

[298] You could be like, how is this thing?

[299] And then people would be like, this is how it is.

[300] Yes.

[301] Great.

[302] I'm smarter now.

[303] The best.

[304] That's the key.

[305] We need that.

[306] That's what this podcast is truly about is we just pretend it's true crime and we really just get help from everyone.

[307] Yes.

[308] It's so good.

[309] Oh, so join the fan cult because now we're going to be posting unboxing videos.

[310] Oh yes, because we get so many gifts in that PO box.

[311] Right.

[312] And they're amazing and they're from all over the place.

[313] And we have the, we have the best time opening them privately.

[314] Yeah, we just like open them and we're all like, ooh and ah.

[315] And then one day, last week we were like, let's do this on video.

[316] Yeah, people would like to see this because it's also all the, like, there's art that are like inside jokes that we have with you guys that you should be seeing.

[317] There's a fucking incredible skirt with Elvis.

[318] It's got the pattern that was made is Elvis with cookies all over it and it's this gorgeous skirt.

[319] So if you go to join the fan cult, my favorite murder .com, you can join it and you'll see those videos.

[320] We'll just keep doing them.

[321] And we're thinking of more and more videos to make because we know that's like a super fun element.

[322] We're just trying to make the fan cult the thing you want it to be of like an extra special connection thing.

[323] We want to do it too.

[324] We're just like, we just have to get our shit together.

[325] Do a forum of what you'd want to see too because we don't know.

[326] I mean, yeah, I just suggested something to Georgia, and she's like, I don't know, if you want to see it?

[327] I'm like, yeah, right?

[328] Isn't that kind of what it's all about?

[329] Yeah, please.

[330] You don't know.

[331] It was just me screaming naked through a field.

[332] And I was like, people love the way you scream.

[333] Is that it?

[334] Yes, goodbye.

[335] Do you have anything else?

[336] Go ahead, Stephen.

[337] Oh, I was going to say, I looked up the vid -I -C -Q society.

[338] is...

[339] I want to say it's Vi -Doc.

[340] I'm just putting it out there.

[341] I think you're right, yeah.

[342] But what about that other I?

[343] Okay, I believe you.

[344] I'm just putting a random thing out there.

[345] I agree.

[346] It's basically like a venue where like -minded persons in and out of forensics would gather to discuss and debate crimes and mysteries.

[347] So it was established in 1990 by, it doesn't say their name, but people who worked in the U .S. Customs Service Special Agency.

[348] Customs.

[349] Oh, interesting.

[350] Founded by Wool.

[351] William Fleischer, Frank Bender, and Richard Walter.

[352] What does VSM mean?

[353] Does that mean like FBI?

[354] They're priests.

[355] Oh.

[356] So, yeah.

[357] Three priests that work for customs.

[358] Cool.

[359] Yeah, look at them.

[360] Let's see.

[361] Are they nerds?

[362] Yeah, so I've definitely seen this place before because, yeah, it's basically people who have experience and education in forensics that get together and go, how do we maybe solve these crimes.

[363] And everyone can bring one, like a cold case and be like, Can we do this one?

[364] I need, we need help with this.

[365] Exactly.

[366] They have to, you have to bring a cold case and a bottle of vodka.

[367] Top shelf.

[368] And by the time the bottle of vodka is finished, the cold case is solved.

[369] Yes.

[370] Learning things.

[371] Okay.

[372] Do you go first this week or do I go first?

[373] I think I went first last week, which was four days ago.

[374] Right.

[375] I had to wait to drink until you were done.

[376] God damn it.

[377] That sucked.

[378] Am I?

[379] Should I sit on this blanket?

[380] Because of, things?

[381] Yes, that is a barf couch.

[382] Got it.

[383] That is a cat barf couch.

[384] Is it bothering you?

[385] No, I can, I just don't want to get a hot butt.

[386] Oh, is it a warm butt?

[387] Not right now.

[388] I'm fine.

[389] I was just like, I'll pull it out if not, but it doesn't matter.

[390] It's just embarrassing.

[391] I don't want to sit in barf.

[392] This is great.

[393] I mean, it's old barf.

[394] It is.

[395] How old?

[396] Well, how do you clean barf off?

[397] Everyone, how do you clean barf on the couch?

[398] She's screaming at me. You heard it.

[399] No, I'm embarrassed.

[400] You heard it.

[401] No, I have hot.

[402] face.

[403] I'm sorry, we can take all this out.

[404] No, I don't get the shit.

[405] On a hot butt on one show.

[406] Three fucking cats.

[407] Clearly, my house is going to be disgusting.

[408] I am okay with that.

[409] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[410] Absolutely.

[411] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[412] Exactly.

[413] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[414] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[415] That's right.

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[424] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

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[426] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[427] Goodbye.

[428] Hey, this is exciting.

[429] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[430] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detective.

[431] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[432] Who killed Saz?

[433] And were they really after Charles?

[434] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[435] This season, murder hits close to home.

[436] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[437] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[438] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[439] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[440] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy, Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[441] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[442] Goodbye.

[443] What was I going to say?

[444] Okay.

[445] All right.

[446] So, as you are an I -survived retailer, this week I'm going to be a confessions tapes retailer.

[447] Whoa, people write to us about, you have to watch that all the time.

[448] Yeah.

[449] It's really good.

[450] I started watching it when it first came out.

[451] It's like, this is exciting.

[452] But I, but it turns out that people falsely confessing and people being wrongly, uh, commit, you know, wrongly accused and wrongly all this shit really upsets me in a way that I can't handle it.

[453] So I stopped watching them.

[454] Like I started watching like half of them and they're really fucking troubling.

[455] Yes.

[456] It's horrifying.

[457] Yeah.

[458] It's like this man spent 25 years in hell.

[459] Yeah.

[460] For no reason.

[461] Yeah.

[462] And the person, yeah.

[463] It's really, really troubling.

[464] But it's a really troubling.

[465] But it's a really.

[466] well -done show.

[467] It's on Netflix, the confession tapes.

[468] If you can handle that shit, go for it.

[469] So the other night I was bored, and I was like, all right, there's one of these I've never tried to watch.

[470] I'm going to try to watch it.

[471] And I ended up being like, blown the fuck away about this story.

[472] Okay, cool.

[473] And it's in Michigan, so I was like, Vince, do you remember this?

[474] And he's like, yeah, this, because this was a huge fucking story in Michigan.

[475] Okay.

[476] And I had never even heard of.

[477] All right.

[478] So this is the case of Lawrence or Larry Delisle.

[479] Hmm.

[480] Yeah.

[481] This is one of those cases.

[482] It's really reminiscent of Susan and Aunt Diane.

[483] It also kind of reminds me of those stories of, like, people who leave their kids in cars and, like, did they, or didn't they do it on purpose, those crazy stories?

[484] Yeah.

[485] All right.

[486] So, here we go.

[487] On the evening.

[488] It's also sad, but here we go.

[489] On the evening of August 3rd, 1989, I was stopped to, like, get my bearings.

[490] Yeah, right?

[491] Because you have to picture it.

[492] Yeah.

[493] At 89, I was living in Sacramento.

[494] Yeah.

[495] I was nine.

[496] Right.

[497] You were nine.

[498] And like, you know, everything's this and that.

[499] You're in the 80s.

[500] Here we are.

[501] Late 80s.

[502] Past the MTV era.

[503] Now we're into some, we're into more of everyone's trying to be more New Yorkie.

[504] Oh, yeah.

[505] Highbrow.

[506] Mac makeup brown lipstick.

[507] Yeah.

[508] Might be a bit early for that.

[509] Yeah, I think it's a little more Duran Duran kind of thing going on.

[510] Yeah.

[511] But that's, the sun is setting on Duran Duran.

[512] Okay.

[513] So it's the evening.

[514] of August 3rd, 1989, Lawrence, we're going to call him Larry, Larry Delisle, D .E -E -L -I -S -L -E, of Lincoln Park, which is a suburb outside of Detroit.

[515] And your favorite band.

[516] That's fucking right.

[517] Long -lived Lincoln Park.

[518] Took his family out on a drive.

[519] So they're in the station wagon.

[520] Larry's 28 years old.

[521] He has a steady job as a mechanic.

[522] He mainly works on brakes into the front end.

[523] I don't know what that means.

[524] You know, the front part of the car.

[525] The front end of a car.

[526] Sure.

[527] Right.

[528] And just as his father had done before him.

[529] So the car that the Delio family is driving that night is a Ford LTD station wagon.

[530] Mm -hmm.

[531] And it had belonged to Larry's dad, but two, about two years, less than two years earlier, his dad had killed himself in the car, shot himself in the fucking head in the car.

[532] And they kept the car and they even had, like, still had bloodstains in the car that they couldn't wash out.

[533] No. So, yeah, they kept the car.

[534] That's horrifying.

[535] fine.

[536] But, you know, he makes like $4 .50 an hour and they have four kids.

[537] It's not like they have the money to then go buy a car.

[538] True.

[539] Yeah.

[540] You know what I mean?

[541] But the emotional I get like it's a necessity and yet the emotional toll of that is awful.

[542] It's like not really here nor there in the story.

[543] It's just this crazy.

[544] Maybe it is.

[545] Who knows?

[546] Right.

[547] So that night, the family, the wife is Suzanne, eight -year -old Brian, four -year -old Catherine, two -year -old Melissa and eight -month -old Emily, I know, went to town, they went to town of Wyandotte, which is a word, which is part of the area known as Down River.

[548] Okay.

[549] And they go into shop for bedroom furniture for the girls, and they get ice cream at the local frozen custard shop, which I know from Vince is a thing in fucking Michigan.

[550] For like a little while, there was a frozen custard shop at the Beverly Center.

[551] Oh.

[552] It was down by Macy's kind of in a corner.

[553] No, I never went.

[554] How is it different?

[555] It's just thicker.

[556] Yeah, because it's frozen yogurt's like the diet version.

[557] Frozen custard is like the fatty fatty version.

[558] Fuck yeah.

[559] And it is good.

[560] Man, any kind of fucking soft serve.

[561] I'm on board.

[562] Same.

[563] This is like softs, if they put butter and soft serve.

[564] I mean, there's something to it where you're just like, this is the best thing ever.

[565] Walking somewhere with a soft serve cone is like my fucking dream.

[566] Did you guys have Foster's Freeze in Orange County?

[567] No, but they have them here in Vinciard.

[568] makes me go to them sometimes.

[569] There's like one left in like Glendale or Burbank.

[570] Right.

[571] It's in Glendale.

[572] Yeah.

[573] Because that's that was kind of the main you could, you know, after school we would just walk around downtown Petaluma.

[574] Yeah.

[575] And there was a foster's freeze.

[576] I don't know what it is now.

[577] But it was a like a walk up window with a little screen.

[578] And you go up and be like half and half dipped and then walk around with this ice cream.

[579] No, we were we were fucking she she waspy neighborhood.

[580] So we had Heidi's frozen yogurt.

[581] No, it was called Heidi's, what was?

[582] it called?

[583] Hold on.

[584] Heidi's Rich Lady Frozen Yon?

[585] Yeah.

[586] Do you remember?

[587] I just remember Golden Spoon.

[588] Golden Spoon we had.

[589] There was like a penguins.

[590] It's pretty on the nose.

[591] I know penguins.

[592] Okay.

[593] It was just shushi.

[594] Yeah.

[595] You know, diet stuff.

[596] Okay.

[597] Well, everyone thought it was diet.

[598] It's so not diet.

[599] Yeah.

[600] It's so not.

[601] Okay.

[602] So, blah, blah, blah, blah, da da da da da, then the custard chop.

[603] So, according to Larry, as they left the ice cream shop, one of the daughters, said, let, can we go see the boats again, Daddy?

[604] And they had done so the night before as well.

[605] So what she meant by that was that she wanted to drive.

[606] They would drive down to the end of Eureka Road, which was a dead end street.

[607] And right when you got to the dead end street, there was like a wood and metal little barricade, and then a couple feet of grass, and then it went right into the tree river.

[608] Okay.

[609] So there was like really nothing keeping you from just walking right into the tree river.

[610] Okay.

[611] But they would pull up to the end to that spot in the car.

[612] And because the Detroit River is one of the busiest border crossings in the world for cargo boats.

[613] Wow.

[614] Yeah, I know.

[615] Smart.

[616] You normally can see boats go by.

[617] And it was at night and all the boats were lit up.

[618] And so the little kids would be like, we're boats or whatever, right?

[619] Which is like, that makes sense.

[620] And when I was a kid, we used to do a thing called we would, when we would leave my aunt's house, which was in like of Palis Ortiz, we'd go over a hill and you could see the city light up.

[621] And up and we'd go, the lights of the city!

[622] It was like our favorite thing.

[623] You know, kids like stupid shit.

[624] They're real dumb.

[625] Yeah, the good stuff.

[626] Yeah.

[627] So the youngest daughter, Emily, though, who's eight months old, she's teething, though, and starts to cry.

[628] So they're like, let's get the fuck out of here.

[629] So they head out, but first they stop in at a drugstore that was around the corner.

[630] And when they leave, according to Larry, he misjudged his turn and instead goes back in the direction of the dead end.

[631] Hmm, I don't like that.

[632] Larry says he'd been having leg cramps and pain all day in his calf, and he had taken off his shoes while he drove because of it.

[633] And he said he suddenly had a very painful leg cramp, and it caused his foot to stomp down on the gas.

[634] And he had to reach down and manually, like almost like a Charlie horse where you can't move your leg, had to manually pull his leg off the gas.

[635] But he said that even when he had done so, the car didn't slow down, that the accelerator had stuck for some reason.

[636] Okay.

[637] So those two things.

[638] this is what happened.

[639] Now, I will say this.

[640] One time I was driving my sister's 1968, Mustang, up D Street and Pedalema, and the accelerator pedal dropped to the ground, and suddenly I was going 70 miles an hour down.

[641] I feel like that's happening before.

[642] Yeah, on older cars, like that, it was the craziest thing.

[643] And as I was driving, like, increasingly, Oh, sorry.

[644] Was there a train coming at the same time?

[645] I was right on the train tracks.

[646] Oh, my God.

[647] And then, Hong Kong.

[648] No. God damn it.

[649] That would have been cool.

[650] But I basically was accelerating to the point where I was like, I'm going to run this stop sign.

[651] Like, it was crazy.

[652] And then I...

[653] And the train was coming.

[654] And then the train was coming.

[655] I got my foot under and kicked it back up.

[656] Holy shit.

[657] You'd like flip it?

[658] Yes.

[659] And I don't...

[660] I think I've always been a little bit stuck up because of that moment.

[661] Oh, you're so smart.

[662] Where instead of panicking, I was like, you have to fix this because I was in a racing car toward death.

[663] Isn't it crazy to think about, like, what you would have done?

[664] I mean, my brother once was in a car with his friend who started having a seizure on the freeway while he was driving.

[665] I don't know how to climb over him and like get on, like get, pull the car over.

[666] Fuck!

[667] I know.

[668] And I'm like, Asher, you are a fucking, like, you're a monster.

[669] You're a superman.

[670] Because you know that's my, that is like why I used to have panic attacks.

[671] My first panic attack was driving 70 miles an hour down up the one, the 101.

[672] And all of a sudden it hit me. You could have a seizure at any moment.

[673] I could have a seizure at any moment and kill myself.

[674] on everybody around me and I, I mean, I had a panic attack that, like, I didn't drive on the freeway for four years.

[675] It was crazy.

[676] I've always, I've always, or lately, or once I theorize that the reason I always move in with boyfriends immediately is because the one seizure I've ever had was in my sleep.

[677] Oh, yeah.

[678] So I don't want to fucking sleep alone, you know?

[679] That was after my seizures.

[680] Thank God my boyfriend, Kevin at the time, was so good.

[681] He, I, I slept with him every night and he to talk me to sleep every night because I would, the second I lay down, I would start having panic attacks that I was going to have a seizure.

[682] It's so fucked up.

[683] That sucks, dude.

[684] But I want to introduce this.

[685] So I believe that story as much as I do not believe that story.

[686] Right.

[687] Because that's this whole story.

[688] I mean, you and I are going to have, like, we have to decide.

[689] Okay.

[690] Great.

[691] Because it's, yeah, that right now it's like, yeah, I see that story happening.

[692] Yeah.

[693] All right.

[694] This is a bummer.

[695] Here we go.

[696] And it happened to me once.

[697] I know.

[698] But not the cramp part.

[699] I don't like the cramp part.

[700] It doesn't jive.

[701] But if you You get the, I feel like an older car, if you push the accelerator all the way to the ground, that's a place where it could get stuck.

[702] So the leg cramp pushing it to the ground might be a good, like, makes sense because it's not like you just tapped on it.

[703] Yeah.

[704] You know what I mean?

[705] Although I was just, not that it's all exactly the same every time.

[706] Do it.

[707] But when I was, when I was going 30 miles an hour so only lightly tapped my foot, that thing dropped as if a piece of metal had broken and didn't come back up.

[708] So it was it wasn't about force.

[709] Yeah.

[710] It was like a thing down there, a spring broke, whatever it was.

[711] So I have a lot of opinions, but I don't know where to put them.

[712] It's on this podcast.

[713] It's the answer.

[714] You tell me where to put it.

[715] No, the opinions go on this podcast.

[716] Okay, so, then then, wait, hold on, the accelerator was stuck.

[717] Meanwhile, on the top, okay, so meanwhile, while let's cut to the top floor of a high -rise apartment building that was directly next to the dead end street uh and and also looked over the detroit river it's like this pretty brick old apartment building so their self -confessed nosy neighbor beverly lake was out on her balcony that night where she had mounted a high -powered binoculars on a tripod beverly is a fucking nosy nelly yes i am too about her nosiness beverly's husband once said to her you know it if you keep doing this, someday you're going to witness a murder.

[718] Mm -hmm.

[719] And she's like, that's exactly what we're trying to do.

[720] Right.

[721] So she's on the 11th floor, it's top floor.

[722] She has a bird's eye view of both Eureka Street and the dead end and the lake.

[723] The night before, she had witnessed and commented to her father, who was with her, about the Delisle family car, the station wagon, had pulled up there and was idling in front of the river.

[724] As he said, they had done it the night before to look at the boats.

[725] and when the car first came to the river that night she noticed it again so when they first came and then they were like fuck this shit let's get out of here so by her account about 20 minutes after first seeing the car that night at about 9 .20 p .m. she hears a quote terrible roar and saw the station wagon head straight towards the barrier full speed followed by here seeing the Delisle station wagon crack through the barrier it becomes airborne and crashes like 30 to 50 feet into the water.

[726] Yeah.

[727] And she says she never heard it slow down once.

[728] She heard the accelerator as it was flying through the air.

[729] Wow.

[730] And she hears Suzanne, the mom, scream as the car goes into the river.

[731] Oh, God.

[732] It's really terrible.

[733] The car ends up about 90 feet down south of the river because of the current.

[734] And it's 30 fucking feet deep.

[735] Isn't that crazy?

[736] I did not expect to be that deep.

[737] So when the search and rescue arrive and there's video of this, I mean, why?

[738] the confession tapes it's troubling um they see the taillights are still visible of the car i know and they find lauren larry and susan had escaped the car through the blown out front window so when they hit the water the front windshield blew out they swam out but all four children were trapped in their seats still in the car at the bottom of the river and they were pulled out you know hours of CPR were done but sadly none of the four children survived.

[739] Oh, God.

[740] And, okay, police question Larry that night.

[741] He tells the investigators about, says something was stuck in the gas pedal.

[742] He was thinking that maybe his shoe had come loose and hit it.

[743] But police didn't buy his leg cramp story, especially when the doctors at the hospital couldn't find anything wrong with his leg at all.

[744] Also, for some reason, they were like, this is insane.

[745] Like, we just want to leave and go to Florida on vacation and get out of here.

[746] like no bad move yeah but she supports Suzanne supports him 100 % and is like that's exactly what happened he didn't do it on purpose this was an accident you know okay that's good yeah so she stands by him but of course the fucking media goes bananas it's a small town everyone knows each other and the media eats it up it's super sensational um they even show the the dead children being carried out of the Detroit River no they I saw it it's horrible And that's like when people see that, they go bananas.

[747] It's an emotional reaction.

[748] And the police who were there that night helping also have this anger and emotional reaction to these dead children.

[749] Yes.

[750] Someone needs to be blamed for this kind of way.

[751] Of course.

[752] It's really fucking awful.

[753] There's one guy who's like is being past one of the children on a boat and his eyes just looked insane in this way of like, this isn't really happening.

[754] He's clearly going to have PTSD after.

[755] It's really fucking awful.

[756] I mean, that's the, also that's the part of this first, a job of first responders that never gets talked about where, like, they see horrible things.

[757] They see horrible things every goddamn day.

[758] They had, my mom told me once, I won't tell the specifics of it, because it's truly horrible, and I wish she hadn't told me. But my dad saw something early on, and she said he had nightmares about it.

[759] He would wake up with nightmares about it.

[760] As a fireman.

[761] As a fireman.

[762] Because they do a lot of resuscitations.

[763] They don't just do fires.

[764] It's like, you know, when you call 911, The one, the fire department is the one that comes.

[765] Yeah, and he just saw some pretty awful things in, like, in, that happened to children.

[766] Yeah.

[767] And that he just had nightmares about it for years and years, and it kind of didn't go away.

[768] So, yeah, the impact is terrible.

[769] It also makes me think of the community meeting that we talk about all the time, the Golden State Killer one, the guy stands up and says, there's no way that if a man's in the house, he's going to let an intruder attack his wife.

[770] it's that thing I'm sure people said I don't want to step on this if this is what's about to happen how can you escape a car that your children are still in yeah how can you swim away from that car yes and so I'm still on the fence about his guilt or innocence so there is that argument which I don't we you and I both have talked this many times it's like you you can't understand how people are going to react to things right you know they both swim to the surface but apparently he doesn't know how to swim either oh let me get yeah we'll talk about it.

[771] But yeah, you're right.

[772] I jumped it.

[773] I jumped it.

[774] No, no, no, no. It's true.

[775] I mean, it's, it's, and when I first watched the confession tapes, I was like, he's so fucking innocent.

[776] This is all bullshit.

[777] He did on an accident.

[778] But the more researched it in the past 10 hours.

[779] The more I'm like, I don't know.

[780] Okay.

[781] All right.

[782] So, um, okay, the media goes crazy and, um, they show the video, also of the station wagon.

[783] It's this dramatic video of the station wagon being plucked out of the river and the media starts stalking staking out the delisle house until five days after the crash when larry and susan agree to do an interview so so he looks like a not as intelligent uh kind of pudgyer ted bundy oh okay he looks like a a working man's ted bundy okay um and she looks like every i think midwestern mom okay you know so um so they're sitting on their little porch in front of their little house, on lawn chairs, and surrounded by reporters and cameras, they seem super days, but there's no emotion.

[784] They're just, you know, not reacting at all in the fact that their kids had just, four kids had just been killed.

[785] Yeah, they're probably him.

[786] Probably in shock.

[787] Well, later, Larry says that he had taken two valiant before the interview, which is why he seems so calm.

[788] And he's like, I fucking shouldn't have done that.

[789] But it's also how we say, like, you never know how, you can't ever know how you're going to react in situations.

[790] And And sometimes it's not how people want you to react.

[791] Well, and that's why.

[792] Yeah.

[793] It's like how people are slowly learning that and how the press, the press wants the story.

[794] And the press wants the thing that's going to sell magazines or these days get clicks.

[795] Which is emotions.

[796] Raw emotions.

[797] Exactly.

[798] So it's like get in here and suddenly it's, do you see the blue dress or the gold dress?

[799] It's, is this guy innocent or guilty?

[800] It's up to you.

[801] But then they'll be like, she's too emotional.

[802] Those emotions are fake.

[803] They don't seem right.

[804] They seem forced.

[805] So there's no fucking way to wait.

[806] No, there's no. I mean, I think the way to win is like, why are these people speaking to the press days after four of their children died?

[807] Like, that's, you don't have to do that.

[808] Why are the press hounding them after their children just died?

[809] Well, it's a, yeah, I mean, Jesus.

[810] Because I think a lot of people in the community are like, how could they let, yeah, how could they let their kids drown there?

[811] I would never let that happen.

[812] So, everyone was like fired up about it.

[813] Yeah.

[814] So, um, they talked casually about the crash saying they didn't know what had happened.

[815] They didn't express any emotion or feeling.

[816] Um, um, of course, makes the public even more pissed off about them.

[817] On August 10th, 1989, a couple days, so a couple days after the crash, was that an earthquake?

[818] No, there's someone on the tennis court.

[819] Oh, it's an earthquake of people playing good tennis really well.

[820] That's stupid.

[821] Okay.

[822] So, Larry's brought in for questioning and a polygraph test by Sergeant John Paul Mader of Michigan State Police.

[823] All right.

[824] Paul Mader is known in law enforcement law enforcement community for extracting confessions from people which is a good they're all like that's a great thing okay he's like I can pull a rabbit out of a hat right in their minds he's super good at it okay so this dude and he's interviewed in the confession tapes listen I'm not judging I'm not putting any judgment on whether or not the guy is guilty or in this you know can that a fake confession or not or if he's a good cop or not I'm not saying any of that.

[825] He is a fucking douche.

[826] Like, like, not judgment on anything, but that fact that he is a fucking cocky douche.

[827] Okay.

[828] I really don't like him.

[829] Okay.

[830] But at one point, he says to Larry, I've just been given a gift to look deeper into people than anyone ever thought possible to do.

[831] Like, he's just really into himself.

[832] And he, in saying that, he believes that when he's saying that?

[833] Oh, yeah.

[834] Okay.

[835] And that's odd.

[836] That he's, he talks about how he's a Zen master.

[837] and how he can pass a lie detector test himself.

[838] So he starts, so this is just one of those confession tapes that are really problematic.

[839] He starts to make Larry believe that he's crazy and maybe he did do it on purpose but just didn't realize it.

[840] One of those like, you know, your subconscious mind took over and you were overwhelmed by the stress of, you know, your baby was crying.

[841] It was a hot night and maybe you're not a monster.

[842] I know you're not a monster, you know.

[843] Yeah.

[844] And if you tell me that you did it subconsciously, then we'll know that, you know, um, and he has so much sway because this is the man who's lost his four children.

[845] He lost his four children.

[846] He also has a 10th grade education.

[847] So he's, you know, at one point, too.

[848] At one point, you know, he says like, Larry's like, I must have been a monster if I had done it.

[849] And this guy goes, oh, that's very astute of you to realize that.

[850] And he goes, what's astute?

[851] Like, he doesn't know.

[852] Yeah.

[853] What's going on?

[854] Um, and he lies to him.

[855] He says, like when we say something is done on purpose does that mean there's pre -planning like did you do it on purpose was it an accident but it was you know telling him oh he was like it really took courage to do what you did like even making him feel like he empathizes with him or he's on his side yeah okay um and so during the interrogation it starts to look like larry's nodding off and like he's hypnotized almost in this like translect state and I think I think the videotape is eight hours, but they interrogate him for 12 hours.

[856] Jesus Christ.

[857] No lawyer.

[858] And during the interrogation, Larry cooperates.

[859] He seems to be getting along amiably with Sergeant Palmaider.

[860] While Palmaider talks to Larry, Larry seems to be in this trance, hypnotized.

[861] He does the whole thing of Palmator does, like, I can totally understand why you did this, and you're a victim too, just trying to get him to like.

[862] Agree.

[863] Yeah.

[864] And the whole time, Larry's like, I can't, this kid.

[865] can't be true, like questioning it himself.

[866] Like, maybe it is.

[867] He seems to have no effect or personality just kind of closes his eyes through the ordeal.

[868] He seems to start parroting back the suggestions that this guy, that Paul Metter had said to him, which is a big thing about forced confessions, is parroting back what that person told, you know, said might have happened.

[869] Like word for word.

[870] Yeah.

[871] Yeah.

[872] So it turns, it leads the police to say that they got a confession from him, even though there's no real confession happening.

[873] After that night, that same night, after 12 hours of interrogation, Delilah is charged with four counts of first -degree murder in the deaths of his children and one count of attempting to murder his wife.

[874] Police release a statement to the media right away, saying that Larry confessed to the intentionally driving his car into the river and killing his children, even though he really didn't say that.

[875] They also say that he attempted to, he also during his interrogation, I guess, says that he had attempted to blow up his house once eight years earlier by leaving a candle burning near a gas leak in the basement while his wife and son were asleep which i don't fucking that makes no sense to me like why would you confess that unless it's like that is so specific well unless it's planted somehow or there's some he did it on accident once or he's just putting if he's in a weird trans like state i mean who knows what got suggested or what got what got what got floated that then kind of popped up in his mind i mean this is a fascinating that idea of like of a coerced confession or false confessions it's such a fascinating thing what the brain can will do yeah and what you start agreeing to when you're under duress and all that stuff it really does look like he's in a trance or hypnotized it's really creepy it's so weird um also both of these ways of having people die even if you're a psychopath or sociopath are so awful like having people blow up or you're not guaranteed that everyone's going to die.

[876] People get just terribly injured and you have to take care of them the rest of your life.

[877] Like, you're putting your car with yourself in it.

[878] That's the part.

[879] And you don't know how to swim.

[880] You don't know how to swim.

[881] You're fucking in the car.

[882] Yeah.

[883] Your wife's in the car.

[884] Yeah, she can swim out easily.

[885] Yeah, it doesn't make it.

[886] It's not easy.

[887] It's not the cleanest way to do something.

[888] No. And like, if he was intending to do it, did he know it was 30 feet deep and how far the car, how long it would take for someone to come get the kid?

[889] it like they could have all survived for all he knew they could have float hit the thing and floated exactly yeah right or they're you know all right so ditty so quotes from the confession they take quotes from the confession to give to the media but without the content so when he's almost like asking what if i did do you know like they take those quotes and put them out there without any context um or subtext and the context yeah the public is outraged and can't understand how an average Joe, you know, a store manager at a mechanic place with no criminal record could do something like this and they are fucking pissed about it.

[890] Since the accident, Suzanne is stuck by Larry's side and through the trial she does as well.

[891] She leads the public to wonder if she is in on the murder plot, maybe for the fucking insurance money.

[892] And she can't go out in public without people yelling obscenities at her and her, she's called night and day with threatening phone calls.

[893] She's lost her four fucking children That's why they went out of town Yeah That's why they went out of town Yeah Now it makes sense Yeah You want to get away from all these fucking Like Also do you want to go back home right now To those bedrooms Where your four children are sleeping And see all their toys and shit And no they're never coming home Like I don't I wouldn't want to go home No way I don't go to hotel or something And not have to But then I will devil's advocate And say They got into that Death Station wagon I mean Just to do that Good point but still then with the house part it has to be two people agreeing like it has to be I don't know anyway I don't either so for months leading up to the trial the story is regularly in the paper and the news and new details are constantly released such as suggestions that the family was in debt that they argued all the time and of course how creepy it is that the family kept the car that Larry's dad shot himself in and had blood stains in still yeah eventually the confession and interrogation video is thrown out by the trial judge whose name is Robert Colombo Jr., which is like the best fucking coolest name I've ever heard.

[894] Robert Colombo Jr.?

[895] Mm -hmm, Colombo.

[896] He makes goods, like pasta sauce.

[897] Yeah, we're calling him Colombo now.

[898] Okay.

[899] Who ruled that the video, which is great, the video was an involuntary statement.

[900] So the video's thrown the fuck out.

[901] So he's seen the same thing you're saying of like this, there's, he's just talking.

[902] This isn't.

[903] This is not a confession.

[904] Yeah.

[905] But Colombo rejects the idea of moving the case out of town.

[906] So it's been this crazy huge news story.

[907] People are emotionally fucking attached to this story too, right?

[908] And five of the people who eventually got picked to be on the jury admitted that they had heard all about the confessions and had been following the case, which how can you not?

[909] It's like your town is crazy, the biggest story in your town.

[910] But they, Pinkies wore or whatever, that they were.

[911] wouldn't let it affect their decision.

[912] Come on.

[913] And I'm like, Colombo, you just wanted the fucking notoriety.

[914] You didn't want it to be moved because you wanted to stay in the middle of it.

[915] Yeah, it's hard because on one hand you're like, great.

[916] He's like making a fair ruling about the confession tape.

[917] But that's fucking insane.

[918] That's the whole point of why we move trials is so that you can get a jury that's as unbiased as possible.

[919] They're going home that night and the fucking on the news is the trial story.

[920] Well, and also these are all the same people who real time watch.

[921] dead children be pulled from the river.

[922] They're traumatized themselves.

[923] They're, that affects you.

[924] So they need some, you just need someone to be held responsible.

[925] Yes.

[926] And you have a, you have a wound now that you need healed that kind of is, yeah, and that's so many people in that town or even that area.

[927] Right.

[928] And all their friends who come over for dinner or that they see in the grocery store, all want the same thing.

[929] Yeah.

[930] So, um, when the case went to trial in June, Wayne County prosecutor, Kevin Simmooski also not talking about his fucking career or him at all except that he seems like a fucking douche again he seems like he's from Animal House like he's a Dan Aykroyd character even with the fucking the Dan Aykroyd accent thing he's just so it's just rates on my nerves I'm not saying anything about him can we say can I just say that Dan Aykroyd was not an animal house because I don't yeah I figured I got that wrong but he reminds me of one of those.

[931] How about a balushi?

[932] Yes.

[933] Okay.

[934] He reminds me about, he's like a balushy acroid style you know.

[935] Come on guys.

[936] I ever once, you know, he looked like, he just looked so 80s back then.

[937] 80s and Chicago accent?

[938] Or like that Midwestern accent?

[939] Yeah.

[940] A lot of flat A's.

[941] Yeah.

[942] And he was real showy and flashy and yeah.

[943] Pinky ring?

[944] Probably.

[945] I'm going to guess.

[946] I'm going to say yes, the pink earring.

[947] Okay.

[948] He argued that Larry was a troubled man, drowning in debt, feeling burdened by life and his, by his wife and kids.

[949] Actually, in confession tapes, there's a funny, Larry's interviewed in it, and you can, it's just his voice, you know, from prison, oops, gave that one away.

[950] And he says, you know, when he was trying to coerce the confession, he was like, you know, your daughter's crying in the backseat and you just snapped.

[951] And Larry's like, I had four children who cried constantly.

[952] Yeah.

[953] If I were going to snap at a crying kid, I would have, you know, done it three kids ago.

[954] Exactly.

[955] That's true.

[956] Which is a good point.

[957] He, Samowski argued that Larry deliberately planned the crash and fully intended to die along with the rest of his family that night.

[958] So his thing was that it was like a murder suicide attempt.

[959] Oh, wow.

[960] Defense attorney Frank Eman, Eman, E man. E man. He claimed.

[961] He had a blonde page boy.

[962] It was weird.

[963] Yeah.

[964] Eamon, I bet.

[965] Claimed the car was defect.

[966] that Delisle was not guilty, he told reporters that the only reason Larry, quote, confessed to the crime was because police wore him down during the interrogation, with, again, no attorney's present, and basically brainwashed him and gave him a kind of nervous breakdown.

[967] Which would be very easy to do for a man who's just lost his four fucking children.

[968] Just lost his children, not as intelligent as the person who's doing the questioning, you know.

[969] He says they erased Larry's real memory and planted a new idea into his head, one that has.

[970] held him responsible because also in the question tapes he's like yes I'm a piece of shit I hate myself for the rest of my life I killed my children yeah but not saying he did it on purpose like he was blaming himself too right so he you know he was like you wanting to take on the responsibility of course he was yeah if it if if if he didn't do it and it was as he said he's still it's still as bad because he's fucked for life he's fucked for life yeah and his poor wife and everything you know um okay the trial lasted i just wrote eight i'm when i think eight days eight long minutes eight the trial lasted eight days with more than two dozen witnesses called to testify including nosy neighbor beverly lake who said that the crash quote we saw something that was carefully planned she described the cash the crash as the most deliberate act she's ever seen and that the car proceeded in a straight path between the barricades without swerving or deviating and that there are no apparent signs of breaking, which is like, yes, that's what he said.

[971] Yes.

[972] She thinks she's corroborating what he says and she thinks it proves that he's guilty.

[973] Well, she's just, she's just juicing it up and pretending that her vantage point from a building, an 11 -story building, however many yards away, means that she knows the intention of what's happening.

[974] I mean, that's crazy that they let her even say it.

[975] She's, like, the main witness, too.

[976] They were, like, so happy when they got her, which is, like...

[977] Did the defense ripper?

[978] I mean, like...

[979] I don't think so.

[980] I don't know.

[981] I know.

[982] It's really, like...

[983] It's really problematic.

[984] I'd be like...

[985] And she's interviewed during this show, too, and you want to be, like, yell at her, but she thinks she did something good.

[986] She thinks she did a good thing.

[987] If I would work for the defense, I would have been, like, rebut, your honor.

[988] Beverly, how many pairs of binoculars do you have?

[989] 11?

[990] pairs of binoculars.

[991] And an expert in an accident reconstruction.

[992] So there's a whole problem with the way they tested the car too.

[993] Sergeant Weldon Greiger testified that the car travel had to travel about 40 feet at about 40 to 47 miles per hour.

[994] So that's how fast it went.

[995] Okay.

[996] A man named Brian Ross, he was in a boat on the river that night.

[997] Oh, shit.

[998] So he saw the car go.

[999] under water.

[1000] And he testifies that the car went under in a matter of seconds and that Larry surfaced quickly right above where the car had gone under and that Larry didn't say anything when he got out there.

[1001] He never went under the water again.

[1002] He was just sitting there treading water.

[1003] And Suzanne popped up downriver.

[1004] So she, you know, panicked or tried to get one of the kids, maybe who knows, popped up down river and was hysterical when she got up there and said that she was spitting out water and screaming, my babies.

[1005] And then she tried to go back underwater.

[1006] So she did what I think most of us would have done.

[1007] Yes.

[1008] And he didn't.

[1009] And that is problematic.

[1010] But he also didn't know how to swim.

[1011] And he, you know, he didn't know how to swim.

[1012] But he could tread water?

[1013] Yeah, I don't know.

[1014] That's weird.

[1015] Yeah, that is weird.

[1016] But also, he could also have been in full shock.

[1017] And like, he could have been, like, his hearing was out.

[1018] Right.

[1019] He could have just, like, not known where he was.

[1020] Sure.

[1021] And been completely.

[1022] Who knows what happened?

[1023] And when that car hits the water, he could have slammed his head on the exterior wheel.

[1024] I mean, it hit it with enough force to break out the windshield.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] The expert car witness for the prosecution said that nothing had been wrong with the car, despite the fact that the choke stuck once in 21 tests on the car.

[1027] So they tested it 21 times and then one time something happened where it stuck or it was revving up in neutral.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] Acceler was still going in neutral.

[1030] After that one time in 21, they tested it one more time and then stop the tests.

[1031] So that happened like at try 20.

[1032] And they were like, no, it's fine.

[1033] Like they wouldn't keep testing it because they didn't want, you know, the outcome of something's wrong with the car.

[1034] Right.

[1035] And that doesn't seem fair.

[1036] No, it doesn't.

[1037] And also the arresting officer, he was on the stand, the jury stand, or the jury stand.

[1038] He was on the stand, witness stand.

[1039] Because on the top of it is no pad during a test ride with police, he wrote, quote, accelerator sticking.

[1040] And then during the trial, he swore under oath that he had no idea why he wrote that.

[1041] It was just happened to be there.

[1042] Come on.

[1043] I know.

[1044] So Suzanne testified that the car's engine had raced in the past, including sometimes while they were in the car.

[1045] One defense witness, mechanic James Cokewell testified that the car's accelerator cable was bent.

[1046] Its engine mounts were cracked, which pulls the accelerator cable and causes the accelerator to stick.

[1047] That's what happens when that when I guess engine mounts are cracked.

[1048] Okay.

[1049] I'm not a car person.

[1050] We should become car person.

[1051] Let's make this into a car process.

[1052] Call it car talk.

[1053] Perfect.

[1054] Become men.

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] And one of its throttle plates appear to stick.

[1057] So I'm sure that means something to someone.

[1058] The jury deliberated almost nine hours over two and a half days, which is like three hours a day.

[1059] It's not a big of a deal.

[1060] Uh, were brought into court like into the courthouse and outside to stand guard in case of a fucking riot when the when the verdict got read oh my god because that's how crazy the fucking town was about this case i bet you know um and the jury found larry guilty on all accounts at sentencing colombo said that he had serious questions about whether the proceedings had been fair so even he was like i call bullshit on this and probably if it had been a what is it called the bench trial which means the judge is the judge not jury yeah then he probably would have been let off wow when they did try to get one and it was denied right because he fucking left it in at the center of the crime right wait what like that he left it in town right so of course they're I mean that's the whole point of leaving in town right then all the people in town come and give their opinion that's right um and he So Larry's sentenced to five current terms in life prison.

[1061] Shit.

[1062] About five years after his sentencing, Suzanne and Larry divorced, he says it's because he looked so much like their children.

[1063] It was just too hard for her.

[1064] She was heartbroken, clearly.

[1065] And she's fallen off the radar.

[1066] Let's not try to find her.

[1067] Never.

[1068] This is defensatory Frank Eamon now wishes that the confession tape had gone into trial, and they had been able to see it because it would have shown how much Larry had been broken down and coerced.

[1069] So if only they could have seen it.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] You know?

[1072] And Larry's cases taken to the Supreme Court, but they denied to hear it, and he's exhausted all his appeals.

[1073] So the only change would have to come if the governor said so.

[1074] Really?

[1075] Michigan.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] And that's the case of Larry Delisle and his poor family.

[1078] Wow.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] I mean, that is why I don't watch shows like confession takes.

[1081] I'm going to fucking think about Larry Delisle and the did he or didn't he for the rest of my life now.

[1082] And it won't matter because his fucking poor children are still dead.

[1083] They're dead either way.

[1084] Yeah.

[1085] And it won't matter because, yeah, it it I'm sure there's part of him let's just say best case Nario, he's, the best case Nario is that he's innocent, but that he was put away.

[1086] Yeah.

[1087] Because he was coerced.

[1088] But he still wanted to be put away.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] because this horrible thing happened like it's trouble like i i love did they or didn't they cases but it's when someone didn't get a fair trial or have false confessions or were like fucking you know railroaded somehow that those the ones i can't stand yeah well when it's not clear in a place where like you would want and this is you know what what is why this is that such a topic of conversation these days is because we've all kind of like blindly assumed this is done correctly this is the place where things are done correct and it's a court system you're going to get what you deserve yeah it's all very look you got a lawyer this is how it you know it's all that shit where it's like oh no no this is one of the most fucked up systems there's fucked up shit happens all the time and we only know now we're or we're you know slowly learning of like that the way police do things and how things can't be allowed and you have to have your lawyer there that's the reason it's the law it doesn't make you guilty if you ask her a lawyer immediately.

[1091] It doesn't make you guilty if you don't cry on camera.

[1092] Right.

[1093] Or, you know, but who knows?

[1094] Maybe he is guilty.

[1095] Also, just the idea that they showed dead children on the news is just like, that should never be allowed.

[1096] No. It's so terrible.

[1097] No. Never.

[1098] Wow.

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] Good one.

[1101] Thank you.

[1102] Uh, okay.

[1103] Well, so my, uh, my case this week, um, is one that I actually started when, when we were on the European tour and was going to do on that, didn't we have a day off in Stockholm?

[1104] Wasn't there?

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] A little extra time there?

[1107] Yes, yes.

[1108] So I started it and then had enough time to second guess myself.

[1109] Love it.

[1110] And was like, this is too new.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] And this might actually be a bummer.

[1113] I think I was particularly worried about the shows in Norway and Stockholm.

[1114] That's right.

[1115] You were.

[1116] Because I was like, they're not going to speak English.

[1117] I made up all these things of what they were going to do And then they were like the best audiences Yeah, they were great Who spoke better English than us And were hilarious Yes Okay, so anyway But it turned everything as it was supposed to be But I really, really wanted to tell the story We talked about it when it happened real time last year Oh, I know what you're doing It's the murder of Swedish Journalist, freelance journalist Kim Wall Oh my God And because it's so new and because it's when cases are this new, it's just a series of newspaper articles that everybody's getting their information from.

[1118] So most of these, most of what I have here are quotes and polls from articles from the BBC News.

[1119] Because BBC News was all over this and seemed like they were covering it.

[1120] And they're so smart too.

[1121] They're so British.

[1122] They're smart, but they're calm.

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] They know how to line up.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] And, you know, tea.

[1127] Don't ask any questions about tea.

[1128] Yeah, exactly.

[1129] So we'll just talk about Kim Wall for a second.

[1130] So her name was Kim, Isabel Frederico Wall, and she was born March 23rd, 1987 to her parents, Ingrid and Joaquin Wall, in a close -knit community in a small town of Trellaborg in southern Sweden.

[1131] And she graduated from high school.

[1132] She was obviously super brilliant because listen to this college career that I was like, God, that's a lot of homework.

[1133] She studied international relations at the London School of Economics.

[1134] I bet they're smart.

[1135] It's hard to get in there.

[1136] I don't understand numbers.

[1137] You have to have so many.

[1138] What do they call those?

[1139] Numbers.

[1140] So many numbers in your pocket.

[1141] You have to do a lot of pounds.

[1142] What?

[1143] You have a lot of pounds.

[1144] Yeah, your parents have to have pounds and you have to have numbers in your head.

[1145] She got a bachelor's degree there.

[1146] And then she went to New York and she got into Columbia in the journalism department, which apparently is very, very competitive and really hard to get into.

[1147] She graduated top of her class with honors.

[1148] And she had a dual master's degree in journalism and international relations from Columbia.

[1149] So this is a very, very intelligent woman who's also obviously very ambitious, knows exactly what she's into.

[1150] do.

[1151] And then they have just a ton of great quotes from her friends, like her classmate, Anna Codria Rado, was interviewed by the BBC and said that Kim was very bubbly and warm.

[1152] She's a kind of person who had fantastic stories about all the things stories that she was working on.

[1153] And you could jump straight past the small top, which like, right?

[1154] That's what we're all about.

[1155] She was intellectual, so well -traveled, had all these varied interests.

[1156] And she liked quirky and eccentric stories so if you were at a party you'd end up passing hours chatting with her that so like yeah it's just like oh i like her yeah she's my friend um she also won um an award called the hansel mitz prize um awarded by a german newspaper that i cannot pronounce i apologize it looks like sudeuts zeitong that's exactly right perhaps um testing you she was Yeah, exactly.

[1157] Now I can move to Germany.

[1158] In March 2016, they gave her an award for the best digital reportage of a series called Exodus, which was her report on climate change and nuclear weapons testing in the Marshall Islands.

[1159] Wow, that's such smart stuff.

[1160] Smart stuff that was like, that's not, you know, the Circleville Pumpkin Festival every year, which is my report that I like to give.

[1161] But this is clearly a woman.

[1162] She was about, she was a, she reported on like the, the resurgence or the uprising of feminism in China she would do all these stories that were about like people who are underrepresented about subculture as a word they use a lot she was a woman of substance she really was and she hauled her ass around the world getting these stories so she went everywhere she seemed very brave and her friend victoria grieve told sweden's express in newspaper about life in a he wrote about life in a huge shopping center in Kampala's Chinatown about Cuba's underground internet providers who download and disseminate new episodes of keeping up with the Kardashians to people in Havana.

[1163] We made a report together about the wealthy women in New York who voted for Donald Trump.

[1164] So she was political and she was, but she was also, she did like personality profiles and kind of those pieces of like meet your fellow humans in the world.

[1165] But there are dangers to being a freelance journalist.

[1166] Somebody names Truthy Gottipati I think G -O -T -I -P -A -T -I G -A -T -P -A -T -A -G -T -P -E who wrote in the Guardian as news organizations grapple with shrinking budgets they increasingly rely on freelancers who cost less and are willing to take on the attendant risks reporting in places they wouldn't send their staff to.

[1167] Oh, what?

[1168] That's scary.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] Because the competition's fierce and, you know, female freelancers get out there and work really hard to prove that they're the same kind of reporters as anybody else.

[1171] And they'll go get the stories and that they're willing to do all that, obviously.

[1172] And they don't talk about the dangers themselves because they want to prove that they can do the job.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] It just sounds like they're complaining or something.

[1175] Right, exactly.

[1176] They don't want to do that.

[1177] Yeah, they just want to keep getting the jobs and then hopefully have that.

[1178] get them, um, you know, some kind of editorial job or whatever.

[1179] So, sure.

[1180] So, um, we'll go to this inventor, Peter Mattson.

[1181] Um, he's, he's a Danish inventor who became famous around 2008, because he had built, what he claimed to be the first privately built, largest privately built submarine, um, in the world.

[1182] And it was 56 feet long.

[1183] it was called the UC3 Nautilus and or sorry he did a series of submarines the UC1 Treya the UC2 Cracker and the UC3 Nautilus Is this like a thing that people do Like make fucking submarines No it's not at all This guy is like it's He sounds to me in the way they describe him To be like a low rent Elon Musk Okay So basically Because when they say he made the biggest one I'm like well they're a bunch of smaller ones I know.

[1184] Isn't, with submarine -wise, wouldn't you want to go a little smaller if you're making it yourself?

[1185] Sure.

[1186] Like if you forget one, you know, like a one screw somewhere and then it's this big old thing because you had to have like a dining room.

[1187] You run out of gorilla glue.

[1188] Yeah, I don't feel like length is, you should be super concerned with it when it's a submarine.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] You know how men are.

[1191] Who am I saying?

[1192] It is all about size.

[1193] Okay, so he, so that's how he kind of bursts onto the scene.

[1194] He becomes, um famous you know uh in denmark for basically being this kind of eccentric inventor and um he and he does all this stuff with either um uh being fronted uh shit what's that called oh being like when they pay the money venture capitalists so it's venture capitalism so he's like he goes he's you know like a mover and shaker where he's out there and he's like i'm this inventor and i can make this and the net new wave or personal submarines or whatever he did it and he gets people to kind of stake They're like, great, here's this money.

[1195] Yeah, here's 10 grand.

[1196] I'm a venture capitalist and here's my blazer.

[1197] We are too.

[1198] Give us fucking 10 grand.

[1199] Rich people.

[1200] Yeah, we have all kinds of submarine ideas.

[1201] But then he has that kind of personality where he's getting out there and he's about, he keeps getting himself in the paper.

[1202] He's like he becomes renowned as this eccentric inventor.

[1203] And after the success of when he first came out with like, I made a submarine and I'm a self -taught engineer.

[1204] That's crazy.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] Then he partners with architect and former NASA contractor Christian von Benston.

[1207] And they form a collective called Gopenhagen Subordinals.

[1208] That's all sounds like.

[1209] Suborbital.

[1210] This sounds like Orbital.

[1211] Villains from fucking Austin Powers movies.

[1212] Yes.

[1213] It's very much shave your head and put your fingers like up to your lips.

[1214] in a prayer position they're actually a group of amateur rocket makers and they're working to the aim of launching a manned rocket into space Oh yeah me too So they're self -made NASA astronaut Like rocketeers Calm down, Dix It's pretty bold When you're like I didn't go to college for this But how about you give me $25 ,000 And I'm gonna have a rocket go out I would rather have a not self -taught engineer make my rocket.

[1215] Same.

[1216] I would rather have someone who went to years and years of very hard school.

[1217] Yeah, like, I would, I would like an engineer that's gone crazy, like, because he's so specific and he checks things 19 times.

[1218] But because he learned it from people who are smarter than him.

[1219] He's, I got, I want the guy that's got a bunch of books that he has actually read.

[1220] I want a guy who's in fucking, has student loan debt.

[1221] Because he went to so much fucking schooling.

[1222] That's right.

[1223] I want a guy that just asks me about me. Oh, wait, what do we do?

[1224] doing.

[1225] Okay.

[1226] Elvis is right here.

[1227] Okay, so that collective Copenhagen suborbital it falls apart in 2014 and the word, it comes out that it's basically because Peter Madsen is nutso.

[1228] He was, they say he was kind of a loner, really fighty.

[1229] He's the kind of person would throw a tool at you.

[1230] Some men said they didn't find him to be intimidating in any way and then some people said, and usually it was women, said that he was so they it was yeah he was he was one of those kind of people like a little monster he after the suborbital's group fell apart he went on to create rocket madsen's space laboratory which sounds like a show on the cartoon network and he set that up to come directly compete with his ex -partners oh god because he's a dick um he is uh wrote on the organization's website my passion is finding ways to travel to worlds beyond the well known well submarines are pretty well known dick yeah i mean that's just a bay you've been there okay so in 2015 there's another dispute and this for his new group the volunteers because he's doing everything by like crowdfunding and getting people to volunteer to come help and build these things and these volunteers were like they were the ones maintaining the nautilus and uh they were like by we're out of here and everybody walked and he said in a statement on his website quote, you may think that a curse is lying on the Nautilus.

[1231] That curse is me. He wrote that.

[1232] Jesus.

[1233] And then he added, there will not be peace on Nautilus for as long as I exist.

[1234] He's so scary.

[1235] He seems crazy.

[1236] Kim Wall had reached out to Peter Madden in 2016 to get an interview with him because obviously at that time is like, who is this crazy submarine and rocket maker?

[1237] This is like a good story.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] like what's your deal um he never got back to her um a year later she and her boyfriend who was a designer is named ole or o 'le um they've decided to move to Beijing so it's the night August 10th it's the night of their farewell party and she gets a phone call and it's Peter Madsen and he's saying I want to show you my newest personal submarine the Nautilus and he's like you can I'll grant you an interview and I'll show you how my submarine works so she leaves she goes and meets her party yeah I don't know if the party had started I don't know what time she got the call okay this is this is the storiest story part of this story because the none of the newspapers really specify that except that you know at some point there were somebody said they made it sound like it was the same night so she was basically like I'll be right back yeah this will take me three hours and it's and I have to do it yeah because it's like she's waited a year So she meets him at the harbor And there's a picture And this is kind of famous on the internet A person going by on a boat Who saw the submarine sitting above the water in the harbor And Peter and Kim were both on it Took a picture of them from the side of the boat And that's essentially the last time anyone sees her alive Is that moment So eight hours later she's not returned she's not contacted anyone so her boyfriend calls the police and at 2 .30 in the morning reporting her missing saying she went on the submarine with Peter Mattson they left from here the same morning later that morning authorities are called out to rescue a man whose personal submarine was sinking and of course it's Peter Mattson and so the police questioned the 46 year old inventor he liked to describe himself I should have put this up higher As an inventorpreneur Me too Oh my God I like to describe him as an asshole I mean If you call yourself anything Don't let it be What is that?

[1240] There's a word for words That are word combos like that I'm an inventor I'm like a new word Okay Willie Wonka Take it easy He also said that his work was to quote To challenge the ordinary so he's just ordinary's like we're good yeah it's fine you know what how about just be a normal person yeah um he just sounds like a bullshit artist to me like one of those people that's good at raising money because he can say like buzz phrases that people like uh like a fucking head of a startup exactly and p um no offense to heads of startup stephen just looked up a picture will you just tell georgia what you describe him as oh i just said he looks like an ugly daniel craig Oh man. Yeah.

[1241] I could see that easily morphing and doggly.

[1242] Yes.

[1243] He had, because he was in the press so much for all his inventions and being this eccentric inventorpreneur.

[1244] He had actually had a biography written about him by a journalist named Thomas Jursing.

[1245] And I know he paid for it, right?

[1246] Well, I don't know.

[1247] So that guy said that he was angry with God and everyone and that he had a hard time getting along with other people.

[1248] and his lofty ambitions caused him to want to do everything his way.

[1249] So basically, Dick.

[1250] And also, clearly, that's what other people that worked with him said people who were having to walk off the job or, like, breaking up entire, you form this huge collective, and then everyone's like, a year later, like, not working with you anymore.

[1251] Not like us.

[1252] That's right.

[1253] Stephen's been here the whole time.

[1254] He's been here, most of the time.

[1255] Most of the time.

[1256] yeah um okay so they when they're questioning him he says he doesn't know where she is the last time he saw her she was alive that he before his submarine sank he'd actually dropped her off very close to where he had they had originally met um and that she was fine the last time that he saw her um so everyone he he said she went to a restaurant at 1030 and that was the last time that he saw her and he drove away in his little submarine and then terrible things happen to him.

[1257] So they end up pulling up the sunken submarine.

[1258] And they test, they go over it.

[1259] The forensics people find blood smears and they match it to Kim Wall's DNA.

[1260] Just like that.

[1261] Yep.

[1262] And so they're suddenly, they're like, here's the thing, Peter.

[1263] Her wires her blood on the inside of your, if you, if she walked off fine, then what happened?

[1264] So then he changes to stories, his story, singular.

[1265] and he says that actually what happened was that she was coming out of the hatch and he was holding it open for her and it slipped and it cracked on her head and it killed her because it fractured her skull and so he panicked and buried her at sea and they're like see yeah this doesn't this doesn't track either then on August 21st a passing cyclist spots a washed up torso on an island southwest of Amateur.

[1266] The poor cyclist.

[1267] That poor person.

[1268] And the DNA test identifies that it is, it belongs to Kim Wall.

[1269] Oh, Kim.

[1270] A post -mortem examination finds 15 stab wounds.

[1271] Oh, my God.

[1272] Mostly on the lower part of this torso.

[1273] Oh, my God.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] So then, so then like 10 days later, Copenhank and police investigator, Jens Moller Jensen announces the police have found a bag that was submerged in the bay with Kim Wall's clothing.

[1276] So it's a shirt, skirt, socks and shoes along with a knife weighed down by pieces of lead.

[1277] And then around noon that day they find her legs and her head also in a bag also weighted down.

[1278] So then he changes his story.

[1279] And he says, because they say, so there's the skull, there's no skull fracture.

[1280] So your whole thing if she died because you drop the hatch on her head is a lie.

[1281] And he goes, no, no, you're right.

[1282] Here's what happened.

[1283] I was, we were up above the water, but she was down in the submarine.

[1284] I was up on deck.

[1285] And there was a carbon monoxide leak.

[1286] And she died of poison of that.

[1287] And I panicked.

[1288] Which is so stupid because, like, that's a better story than you hitting her head.

[1289] Like, that makes you seem like, so why would you start with hitting her head?

[1290] Because he didn't think through the fact that saying hitting her head.

[1291] And then when they, he doesn't think they're going to find the body parts.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] And he's not questioning any of that.

[1294] He's just like, they're going to believe whatever I say, because she's gone.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] Which they're never gone.

[1297] Which even if like, yeah, they don't believe it.

[1298] There's no way to prove it unless they find the body.

[1299] Right.

[1300] And why would you think they wouldn't when this is like, then it's their job and they're going to want to.

[1301] So, um, so then the test comes back.

[1302] And of course, there's no, there's no sign of carbon monoxide in her lungs.

[1303] And they're like, it's not happening.

[1304] So he, he denies that he intentionally killed her.

[1305] but he does admit to dismembering her and throwing her into the ocean.

[1306] He calls it burying her at sea.

[1307] Jesus.

[1308] Psychopath.

[1309] Insane.

[1310] So on January 16th, 2018, Peter Mattson is charged with murder indecent handling of a corpse and, quote, sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature.

[1311] Because when they got test back and there were.

[1312] stab wounds inside the genital area as well as outside.

[1313] And so his trial begins on March 8th, 2017.

[1314] I feel so bad for the boyfriend.

[1315] Oh, it's horrible.

[1316] That he, like, is probably blaming himself for not going with her.

[1317] That's not what she was like, though.

[1318] That's what she did stuff like that all the time.

[1319] That was standard fare.

[1320] And you're like, I'm in business mode.

[1321] Of course I'm going to go by myself to this place.

[1322] And he's an eccentric, he's an eccentric engineer.

[1323] He's just a regular person that's been in the news.

[1324] he's well known around Denmark totally would not expect that yeah he's not some like it's not some weirdo that she picked from under Iraq this is a guy that's been in the news for like almost 10 years shit seriously so she probably yeah she felt safe like maybe he's weird but she's that's part of the story is that he's weird totally so when the trial begins prosecution claims that Peter Madsen tortured Kim Wall before killing her by cutting either cutting her throat or strangling her and And they said that he believed, they believed that he had psychopathic tendencies.

[1325] One reason is because they found snuff films on his computer.

[1326] So he was watching really violent.

[1327] Snuff films?

[1328] Horrible porn.

[1329] Yeah.

[1330] And also their people came and testified at his trial that said they had seen him watch videos of decapitation and choking to the point of his fixation.

[1331] So he, they knew that he was like, a violent creep.

[1332] Like, the people around him, like, showed up and were like, yep, I've got a story.

[1333] Also, what kind of lunatic do you have to be to watch things like that where people can see you watching them?

[1334] Totally.

[1335] Like, you think it's so fucking normal that you are fine with people knowing about it.

[1336] It's kind of like you see that every once in a while people just looking at porn on a plane where it's like, oh, you're so, you think this is normal.

[1337] You're desensitized and you're so addicted.

[1338] that you're just like, fine, I just, it's what I need.

[1339] And also it's like, what are you going to do?

[1340] Watch porn on a plane and then.

[1341] Watching porn did not masturbate.

[1342] Just, just watch it is so creepy.

[1343] I mean, is it's, there's so many angles to talk about creepyness.

[1344] Okay, so anyway, um, when they question him about the dismemberment aspect of the murder, he stated on the stand, I don't see how that mattered at the time as she dead.

[1345] He said that in court.

[1346] I can do whatever I want to her dead body because she's dead.

[1347] Like why are people upset the body?

[1348] The body is essentially the message he was sending.

[1349] So, of course, on April 25th, Peter Mattson was this year.

[1350] Uh, yeah.

[1351] It just happened.

[1352] It just happened.

[1353] Holy shit.

[1354] I mean, like, the murder happened at the end of last year.

[1355] And then the case, that's why I didn't want to do it.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] Is because the case was like, fresh.

[1358] And people really wanted you to do this story.

[1359] So, so I think it's better that you said it.

[1360] the podcast, too.

[1361] Right.

[1362] Yeah, yeah.

[1363] Um, because it would have been dead fucking silent.

[1364] Yeah.

[1365] I mean, it's, it's the worst.

[1366] It's sad, it's sad because it's this amazing young woman who was genius, right?

[1367] Yeah.

[1368] Super brilliant.

[1369] Had this great career, like kind of person with friends and yeah, and had, yeah, it was just like a lover of life.

[1370] Yeah.

[1371] And then this guy who just clearly, like, thought he could just kind of do whatever he wanted and make shit up, like, clearly thinks he's smarter than everybody else.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] But the cool thing is, so when he's convicted on April 25th, on all three charges, he's sentenced to life in prison, which we know in Scandinavia is very extreme.

[1374] Yeah.

[1375] But they also placed him in this thing called forvarring, which is a type of preventative custody with no time limit for prisoners believed to pose a significant danger to others.

[1376] So it's more than it's more than the average.

[1377] they're the in fact that's the harshest penalty in Danish law they're saying like even if you only get 20 years we're keeping you in this place to make sure that even if 20 years comes up and you're better you're not better you get you have to stay in there longer yeah I think that makes total sense well it's it's the thing of there's their life sentences 20 years and they're saying no time limit right yeah so it's the it is the harshest thing you can get and usually the only time anyone gets it is if there's a multiple deaths, but they gave it to him in this case.

[1378] So he is said that it said he's going to appeal this sentence in Copenhagen's high court in September.

[1379] Oh, fuck him.

[1380] Let's all go to Sweden.

[1381] I don't want to go, right?

[1382] But let's all go to Sweden.

[1383] Why not?

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] No, I'm kidding.

[1386] I'm making it seem like I Oh, I see.

[1387] You're using his excuse.

[1388] So after Kim Wall's death, her family and friends started something called the Kim Wall Memorial Fund.

[1389] This is amazing.

[1390] to fund and support freelance female reporters, especially ones that are doing stories about subculture, like trying to give voice to the voiceless.

[1391] And in October 2017, she was posthumously nominated for pre -Europea's Outstanding Achievement Award for Journalists of the Year.

[1392] And on November 26th, Swedish public television aired a documentary about her life entitled The Woman Who Wanted to Tell.

[1393] I hope that.

[1394] that I hope we can see that over here at some point.

[1395] This was one of the most gruesome and closely watched cases in Scandinavian history.

[1396] Holy shit.

[1397] And that is the murder of Kim Wall.

[1398] Oh, Kim.

[1399] I'm so sorry.

[1400] Kind of intense.

[1401] Very short, though.

[1402] That one, I mean, it's like there's not as much of the detail that usually happens.

[1403] But it's just so, it was so crazy to see that unfolding of like, then they found this and then they found that in the news.

[1404] And I remember seeing that picture of her face in your old apartment when we first Because we talked about it when the story broke That's right Everyone was sending it to us Yeah And it was kind of like wait wait wait It was so You know It's like a good story Unexpected So sinister Yeah Disgusting We don't believe or trust this guy Yeah Well that's really sucky Yeah Also I can't remember if I said this or not But the cops did find that he sunk his own submarine.

[1405] Oh, sure.

[1406] So he was trying to hide all that.

[1407] They found a saw on the submarine.

[1408] They found a screwdriver on the submarine.

[1409] He had no explanation as to why he needed either of those on the submarine.

[1410] I mean, like, you think someone bought that submarine is now like, I don't care what happened.

[1411] I'm going to drive it.

[1412] Like how people buy houses or people have died in them?

[1413] Or station wagons?

[1414] Yeah.

[1415] Just keep it.

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] Just keep it.

[1418] We don't have the money to buy a new submarine.

[1419] Here's, we get the family into the submarine.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] This is the thing I wanted to say during years, but I didn't want to be so insanely disrespectful.

[1422] But there was also the element of like, what if it's now the haunted station wagon?

[1423] Well, that's what they say in the confession tapes is fucking Beverly Lake, who's just the miss know it all says, I just, there was this movie out of the time where the car killed everyone called Christine, you know, and it was like, well, that doesn't really fit this.

[1424] Also, go to bed.

[1425] Also, don't talk about that shit.

[1426] I get to talk about it on my dumb murder podcast, but like if you're...

[1427] She says, like, and I was joking, and I know this isn't funny.

[1428] And it's just like, well, then why are you saying it?

[1429] We're the last people that are allowed to say.

[1430] Fair enough.

[1431] Do you want to go first?

[1432] Sure.

[1433] I started watching it's so everyone knows, and I can't, I don't think we talked about it, but very tragically, Anthony Bourdain committed suicide a couple weeks ago.

[1434] Right around the same time that Kate Spade committed suicide.

[1435] So insane.

[1436] which, you know, the thing that I kept reading on social media that I think is really interesting is that everyone assumes that if you are rich or if you are successful, that means you're happy.

[1437] And that is absolutely not the case.

[1438] As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for a long time and met lots of famous slash, you know, successful people, I can assure you.

[1439] It has no bearing.

[1440] And sometimes it's the opposite.

[1441] It's what makes people really unhappy.

[1442] Or they're like, I have this and I'm still not happy.

[1443] even more unhappy because you realize that that isn't going to solve your problems.

[1444] And they interpreted that there's something inherently wrong with that.

[1445] It's super tragic.

[1446] So I had never, I always heard of Anthony Bourdain.

[1447] I always assumed that was an area I wasn't interested in because it was cooking.

[1448] Like I kind of took myself out of like cooking, not interested.

[1449] I mean, but I love chef's table, but I always assumed it's because the way they made it was so filmic and like that he doesn't even really do cooking.

[1450] No, I just assumed I knew what it was.

[1451] I do that all the time.

[1452] I'm like, oh, here's the show.

[1453] So I started watching Parts Unknown.

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] And it is, parts unknown is on Netflix.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] And I highly recommend it.

[1458] And this also kind of does actually tie in a little bit with Kim Wall.

[1459] I think it's so important if, just try to travel.

[1460] Try to like go outside of your normal town or state or area where you grew up.

[1461] Try to be around people that are different than you.

[1462] Try to eat food that is weird to you.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] Try to be less comfortable, live less comfortably, and experience the world more.

[1465] I think it's so important.

[1466] And it seemed to me that's kind of what Anthony Brayneen was all about.

[1467] That's exactly right.

[1468] It's so cool because he would just be in these places.

[1469] Like the first episode is Myanmar, Myanmar, which used to be Burma.

[1470] And I had no idea about any of it.

[1471] Every single word he said in that episode was an education to me. And the fact that they went and shot it was like, yay, now I don't have to go there.

[1472] And I don't have to eat fish.

[1473] But secondhand, it's such an incredible experience to kind of open your eyes to, like, how other people live.

[1474] And I don't know.

[1475] I recommend it so highly.

[1476] It feels like legitimately enriching.

[1477] And then it also makes his death really, really sad because he doesn't understand.

[1478] And this is the truth of it.

[1479] We don't understand what we're bringing to the table.

[1480] We don't understand what people take away from us.

[1481] Or we're, we feel overburdened by what expectations people have.

[1482] of us too yeah but that's made up too like that you make up expectations you don't know what people really fucking yeah but you don't know what they think good and you don't know what they think bad but i think there's a certain personality type that always assumes it's bad when actually it's amazing and like just sitting there watching it going i now i love this guy and i love this i love his life philosophy he's amazing he definitely introduced he definitely brought cultures to people who had never had any experience from the culture through the best possible way, which is their food.

[1483] Yeah, that's great.

[1484] Well, and he, like, he talks to all these real people.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] It's not, he's just so cool.

[1487] He's just a really cool person, obviously, to hang out with and eat with.

[1488] He wasn't, because I think the foodie people can be a bit distancing.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] Because it's like a big race to name the cheese or whatever.

[1491] And you're just like, I don't fucking know.

[1492] And it didn't seem like that was his deal.

[1493] He was more appreciative and kind of like, look at this.

[1494] Well, what I loved about what he always did in every episode, would like, you know, lots of episodes.

[1495] One of the things he would do, he'd go to the nicest restaurant in this city, he would go to the farmer's market, he would go to this cafe or whatever, but he would also always go to someone's home and have, like, their grandmother make him a meal that they always ate, like, you know, this is what the peasants ate, or this is the, you know, that everyone here grew up eating this food.

[1496] And so that was always really eye -opening, going to someone's home, meet the family, and not just from a, like, restaurant point of view.

[1497] or cafe.

[1498] He went to a place in Quebec in Montreal where they make this sandwich that's so crazy looking because it's like a pile.

[1499] It looks like it was like spam with a pile of bologna and then they fry it.

[1500] Oh, my God.

[1501] And there's mustard and then maybe a cheese on there or something.

[1502] And you're looking at it.

[1503] It's one of those places where you can't order, you can't go like no mustard for me or whatever.

[1504] You have it as they make it.

[1505] And he bites into it and he's just like, that's delicious.

[1506] And then you're just kind of like, it's that thing.

[1507] It's the appreciation of, I sent you guys on Twitter, or I added you guys on Twitter when he goes to Waffle House with the cook, with a chef who's explaining to him why Waffle House is so great.

[1508] Totally.

[1509] And that's a great video if you can find it.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] Super good.

[1512] I love that.

[1513] Yeah.

[1514] Well, actually, it's funny because my, one of the, my loves is going to lunch by myself.

[1515] I really love, I did it today, yesterday.

[1516] after one of our meetings, there was a place that I had been, I'll get into these fucking hour long, like, scroll sessions of a hashtag of a restaurant.

[1517] Oh, on, on Instagram and just look at all their food.

[1518] I'll go look at their menu.

[1519] I pick out what I would order.

[1520] And I did that and realized the night before, I realized on the way home the other day that I was right by there.

[1521] And so I went in and had lunch alone and read about my murder for this, for this week and just kind of enjoyed myself.

[1522] And that's just like this lovely little pleasure I have.

[1523] I don't like going to see movies alone.

[1524] I don't like any of that shit.

[1525] I just want to go sit and eat a really cool, you know, order whatever I want and have this nice lunch alone.

[1526] It's kind of one of my favorite things.

[1527] Awesome.

[1528] Um, I also wrote a movie with my dad because my dad spent the night last night and he and I excellently got drunk.

[1529] And we watched, um, this, so my, my uncle Michael Hardstock was an actor way back in the like 70s and he is in a horror fucking campy as shit horror movie it was um Brooke Shields first movie called Alice sweet Alice yes with wait is Betty Davis in it is she oh you would know if you watched it you would know okay well maybe well uh it's really campy I feel like it has it should be one of those campy horror movies that everyone watches but it's not for some reason but you can get it I don't know online somewhere or like Amazon or one of those places.

[1530] He's in that movie.

[1531] So what happened was he was going to be like the assistant detective.

[1532] There was like a main guy.

[1533] It was like this famous actor who was going to be the detective and that guy got a fucking roll on Broadway.

[1534] So he latered off the fucking show.

[1535] And my uncle Michael Hardstock who looks like of cross between what's the guy from Zodiac who's so cute?

[1536] Jake Gyllenhaal?

[1537] No, the other one.

[1538] Oh, Ruffalo.

[1539] Ruffalo.

[1540] He looks like a more pockmarked like Colombo -style Ruffalo.

[1541] And he's in it, and it's great.

[1542] So everyone go watch Alice, sweet Alice.

[1543] Also get drunk with your dad on Rose.

[1544] It's so much fun.

[1545] My dad is so hilarious and sweet.

[1546] I love it.

[1547] Yeah.

[1548] That's really good.

[1549] That's a nice father's day.

[1550] Yeah.

[1551] Like tea off.

[1552] Marty!

[1553] Did you see his tweet about Starbucks?

[1554] No, what do you say?

[1555] He wrote a tweet saying, I'm going to start using the name Marty at Starbucks instead of Martin to see if there's any murderinos working at Starbucks.

[1556] Oh, no. He's like on board.

[1557] with this.

[1558] I mean, that makes sense.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] Come on.

[1561] That's so hilarious.

[1562] So happy Father's Day, Marty.

[1563] Oh, my dad's not on board with anything I do.

[1564] They're going to meet one day.

[1565] It's going to be so fun.

[1566] Oh, they'll have some beers.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] Thanks for listening, you guys.

[1569] You're a fucking sweet angel babies.

[1570] Yeah, thanks for everything and, uh, you know, stay sexy.

[1571] And don't get murdered.

[1572] Goodbye.

[1573] I'll just see my cookie.

[1574] Oh.

[1575] Oh.

[1576] Want two cookies?

[1577] Yeah.

[1578] What else?