13 - Thirteen Going On Murdy

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] All the way down to the LBC.

[17] Are we going to podcast down to the LBC today?

[18] Yeah, this is Karen on the one, too.

[19] Karen on the one, too.

[20] That's Georgia on the three -fours.

[21] There we go.

[22] Hey, welcome to my favorite murder.

[23] This is Karen.

[24] That's Karen.

[25] This is Georgia.

[26] Remember our voices.

[27] Remember, make mental pictures and then listen to horrible things from us.

[28] I think get ready to party.

[29] Party with knives.

[30] Guys, there's so much going on.

[31] So much going on.

[32] This is going to be chockful.

[33] Yeah.

[34] this so this episode is about 1980s murders 80s murders it's episode lucky 13 yay and we decided that we do um well when we decide these things it's so random we're just trying to interest ourselves yeah and make something that we think we'll get for me I was trying to think of something to make us dig deep and go maybe off ours my standard interest is um the murder of marginalized people so that I can come back and talk about and shake my finger at society and how society works and how we've wronged and how we've all been so wronged yeah and we've wronged and we've wronged and been wronged but then I think last week we got a little deep and personal and kind of sad and so I was trying to think of like 80s murders would be like immediately I'm thinking come home in the morning like you know it's a Cindy Lopper feel it's a fun murder it's a fun triangle pink triangles and light blue dots type of feel.

[35] Okay.

[36] I should let you know that mine isn't fun.

[37] Okay.

[38] Mine is marginalized people.

[39] I mean, I feel like there's almost no way that it's not going to be that way.

[40] Well, the 80s just did a number on murder.

[41] Yeah.

[42] I feel like there was just, there was a lot of horrific murders coming out.

[43] Yes.

[44] And I think when I was researching mine, I found, when people talk today about that we live in rape culture, in the 80s it was like that flag was flying high well it wasn't a rape culture back then because no one cared about rape it was like wasn't it like legal to rape your wife yeah and it was like she wore a short skirt so she deserved it and everyone would high five in the courtroom there wasn't a rape it was fucked up guys in a rape culture because it was just culture it wasn't rape yeah there was no delineation it was just like it was this is culture and too bad accept it there's nothing you can do right don't wear you shouldn't have worn that and you shouldn't have talked to person.

[45] Karen, what do you have in front of you?

[46] Oh, guys.

[47] Yeah, before we get into the main course, let's do some apps.

[48] Let's have an appetizer happy hour.

[49] Yes, give me some murder consummate.

[50] Now, people talked about this on the Facebook page.

[51] Of course.

[52] There's no way to jump the Facebook page.

[53] When shit comes out, it's going to hit there first.

[54] But I too, like someone who posted this on our Facebook page, bought the In Touch Weekly that had Jean -Bene's cases finally solved on the cover.

[55] But they don't, but they're like, but we're not telling you, right?

[56] Well, it can't be for sure because now it's gone into, it's almost like JFK theorists where it's all just split into these lunatic satellite theories.

[57] The reason I think this one has much more weight to it is because it's the original private investigator that the Ramsey's hired.

[58] Yeah, but if the Ramsey's hired them, is he going to disclose what he knows?

[59] knows about the Ramsey's?

[60] I don't know.

[61] I mean, you would think not, but then he's no longer on their payroll.

[62] He just started investigating independently from when they were cleared.

[63] But someone made this great point on the Facebook page that like rung my bell, which is you cannot clear the Ramsey's if the case has not been solved.

[64] Somebody came in and was like, don't worry about them.

[65] They're fine.

[66] And it's like, but there's no person.

[67] It's not like you're saying that and then you're bringing up, this is the actual suspect.

[68] And the reason we know they're not guilty is because of so -and -so because they still haven't cleared all the evidence that points to them.

[69] There's so much.

[70] And there's just so much.

[71] It's, um, it becomes like the, it's the Jack the Ripper thing where when you, when you go over the path over and over, everything gets muddied and crazy and you suddenly don't know where the path is anymore.

[72] Well, the thing that's frustrating to me is that anytime someone is like, here, here's the theory and here's why, every single one of them makes total sense.

[73] Sure.

[74] And you're like, okay, yeah, I could see that.

[75] And they are like, they pick and choose the evidence that supports that, and it makes sense.

[76] Yeah.

[77] And then you hear, you know, the evidence of something totally different.

[78] You're like, that makes sense too.

[79] Right.

[80] So it's hard.

[81] It's very hard.

[82] And in this article itself, this happened to me, which here, I'll say this first.

[83] This is how terrible I am with the digital age we live in.

[84] This article was four pages long, and I dipped out on page three.

[85] I was like, I can't read that.

[86] I don't want to read this anymore.

[87] But I'll tell you why, because it's this, what's his name, Ali Gray is this private investigator.

[88] So he's got a team of people helping him for this investigation.

[89] They think it's a guy named Michael Hellgoth who did it.

[90] Oh, they say who they think did it.

[91] Yeah.

[92] And they think he did it with other people, but this guy has killed himself, quote unquote, killed himself since that time, which the bullet went from left to right.

[93] and the gun was laying on the right -hand side.

[94] So they're like, that's not a suicide.

[95] So they think that he was killed to be silenced as the people that did it with him want to make sure that he doesn't fuck them up and get them sent to jail.

[96] So do they think it's one guy or multiple guys?

[97] They think that there was multiple guys.

[98] It's all different people saying all different things.

[99] Because then why wouldn't they kill?

[100] If it was just the two of them, I could see that.

[101] But if it was three, yeah, okay, so it's three, then why didn't whoever killed that one guy killed the other guy too?

[102] They could still do it.

[103] Or maybe they have.

[104] Like, we don't know because we don't know who those other two people are.

[105] But apparently this guy, Michael Helgotth, Ollie, Ollie Gray, for some reason that name will not stay in my head.

[106] Ali Gray says this guy is caught on tape admitting to the murder.

[107] Where's the tape?

[108] What's the tape?

[109] Let me see the tape.

[110] It's, yeah.

[111] It's, let's see, the tape was removed from Mike's house after he died in 1997.

[112] But apparently it was overlooked by the police.

[113] and return to Mike's family.

[114] And why do they think he did it?

[115] Because he admits it on this tape.

[116] And then there are witnesses who say they saw three men leave the house in a station wagon.

[117] There's a girlfriend who says my boyfriend came back in a station wagon I'd never seen before, changed blood splatter clothes.

[118] It's a bunch of that kind of shit.

[119] But it's nothing, nothing is being reported to the police in a firm factual way.

[120] As far as I can tell from this very slightly skimmed article.

[121] Here's why I stopped reading this article.

[122] Because one of the people whose picture is next to Ollie Gray's in the article is a guy named John, it looks like Kennedy or Canadi.

[123] And he has a lot to say about this guy and what he's like and he killed cats when he was little and he's really messed up and he owned a taser and John Bonnet was tased and all this different stuff.

[124] Unfortunately, in the second paragraph, it says, oh shoot, sorry, the wrong page.

[125] On the third page of this article, it says Kennedy, who has a questionable past himself after being sentenced to three years supervised probation in 1979 for sexual assault on a child.

[126] Oh my God.

[127] Phoned the Boulder Police Department nearly 20 times.

[128] No one would call me back, he says.

[129] So immediately, that's when I was like, why am I reading this article?

[130] This is the reason nobody's listening to these theories is because you know, have a child rapist that's like, I know who did it.

[131] Yeah.

[132] Well, that's like criminals, you know, um, reporting each other.

[133] It's never going to be solved.

[134] It's the messiest fucking thing.

[135] Do you think it'll ever, I don't think it'll ever be solved.

[136] I mean, I have to say, I don't know, but I had to buy this.

[137] Yeah.

[138] No, no, you needed to do that.

[139] I'm glad you brought it out of your bag and I was like, yay!

[140] Why didn't I think of that?

[141] Yeah.

[142] Every page of this magazine is absolute trash, including this article that's all just like and of course they have all the pictures of like that Patsy's writing and then the note and all everything you'd want but it doesn't help anything.

[143] No, I don't think it'll ever be solved and I don't unless we can do some kind of mind reading in the future I don't think it's going to be solved.

[144] What's going to help me though a lot is that true crime series they're going to do about this case.

[145] I can't wait for that.

[146] I'm going to watch the shit out of it.

[147] But like will they include things from child rapists.

[148] That's what I want to know.

[149] It's like who's fact -checking that script.

[150] Totally.

[151] No, no, not.

[152] Not anyway.

[153] Unless someone has a deathbed confession, which were so much, oh, I read a whole thing of like 10 deathbed confessions and it was like fucking amazing.

[154] What was that on cracked?

[155] Something like, yeah, probably cracked, something like that.

[156] Which I'm like, I hope there's a deathbed confession.

[157] I feel like if anyone's, it's going to be Burke Ramsey's deathbed confession.

[158] Yeah.

[159] So we got to, so you and I need to survive for another, what, 70?

[160] Let's say, let's put it on, let's say he doesn't smoke and put it on 70 more years.

[161] Let's say he doesn't smoke and doesn't have some strange cancer lurking inside from, the way Patsy did from being involved in a terrible child murder.

[162] Guilt cancer, as I like to call it.

[163] And maybe, and so hopefully the dad will be dead then.

[164] Whoever outlives each other is going to have deathbed confession.

[165] Now, do you think when John Ramsey dies, there's going to be some shit that comes out that he's keeping.

[166] from people because he's the rich he's the money man that's like who's it going to come out from oh so he dies and someone's going to be like i didn't want to say this when he was alive no because i think i guess only if well do they want his kid to know about it or if burke didn't do it sorry but just to entertain sure he dies burke gets the secret the key to the secret lockbox at the bank or whatever something like that yeah where like it just opens a new chapter I don't think he seems like such a private person.

[167] I can't imagine me. He'd be like, here, here you go, everyone.

[168] Would you say he's fiercely private?

[169] I wouldn't say that out loud.

[170] That's for me to do.

[171] Fiercely private.

[172] I think I like the idea that I spent this $2 .99 so you wouldn't have to.

[173] Thank you.

[174] Yeah.

[175] I'm going to try to do that for you.

[176] When it gets solved, is that going to be worth something?

[177] Yeah, I'm definitely putting it into a Ziploc bag and putting it in a file folder.

[178] Put it in your vault.

[179] That's right.

[180] at the bank.

[181] You guys will both have vaults.

[182] That'd be amazing to have a vault that when you die, you open it up and it's a bunch of old in -touch weeklies.

[183] Like not even that old though.

[184] They're like from like mid -90s.

[185] I'm just like, yeah.

[186] Should you talk about, should we go around the main course?

[187] Oh, the one thing I do want to say first.

[188] Please do.

[189] Our Facebook page is blowing up so crazy.

[190] We love that people keep joining it.

[191] it's so fun and we're going to it grew so quickly that we had to it grew so quickly that we had to get some people I believe their names are Alex and Ari and we had to get them to moderate so we just want to be respectful of the fact that they're actually doing work for us and trying to keep the Facebook page is readable and is fun for everybody is possible.

[192] So patience, as we kind of have weird growing pains, because it isn't the original 300 people who are like, you know, their own little club.

[193] And we're sorry it can't be that way anymore.

[194] It's almost 3 ,500.

[195] It's fucking crazy.

[196] And also, thanks to you guys on the Facebook page, we also made the, we made the top 50 comedy podcasts on iTunes.

[197] Which is crazy.

[198] How crazy is that?

[199] So quickly.

[200] Yeah, thank you guys so much for participating so much.

[201] The only way we can get on that is if you guys rate, review, and subscribe.

[202] Excuse me. Get it out.

[203] Get it out now.

[204] So please keep doing that because that was very fucking exciting.

[205] Oh, and also, I haven't checked the Gmail for your emailed hometown murder stories in a while.

[206] Because they go, yeah, they went a little crazy.

[207] There's so fucking many.

[208] So we will get back on that and do a mini, minisode of that pretty soon.

[209] We will.

[210] I'm also, because of the favorite.

[211] Facebook page, like, I'm really aware of quotes that we're saying because people have been making these inspirational posters that are so hilarious.

[212] So funny of stupid, like, not stupid, but like hilarious quotes we've been saying.

[213] Yeah.

[214] It's very cool.

[215] It's so rad.

[216] So now every time I say something, I'm like, is this going to be made into an inspirational quote?

[217] I'm like, I don't start trying to talk in quotes.

[218] I don't, I'm not going to.

[219] I don't want to.

[220] I don't want to.

[221] But then you pull out of like notes in your pocket.

[222] Yeah.

[223] But I happen and like my hand has writing all over it.

[224] But anyway, do you want to go first?

[225] I will go first this week.

[226] I will go first this week.

[227] Come home in the morning.

[228] That's what 80s makes you think of.

[229] Yeah, but immediately Cindy Lopper.

[230] Yeah.

[231] Because I was a total 80s kid.

[232] So this murder happened.

[233] I completely remember it.

[234] It was 1986.

[235] I was 16.

[236] This was like right there when I was starting to go like, oh shit.

[237] like the real world is heavy duty 16 is realizing that yeah bad things can happen to you and yet was I still a blackout drunk you bet I was lady did I still walk alone at night hell yeah it's I was the queen of the kidnap it in my town right um so my murder is the preppy murder do you remember that preppy murder Robert chambers and Jennifer Levin New York City 1986 no tell me everything okay so this was big because back then, and this, it's so funny to talk about and to look it up because it now seems like 100 years ago.

[238] But in the 80s, the big thing back then was being rich.

[239] This was like a little bit after Revenge of the Nerds, where people started to acknowledge that there was another way to be besides popular, rich, blonde, skinny, on Coke, and wearing an eyes odd shirt.

[240] Right.

[241] It's like us against them kind of a thing.

[242] Exactly.

[243] But up until that point, it was basically like this is the only thing you can be and if you're anything else you're just invisible and no one gives a shit about you or you'll get beaten up and thrown into a garbage can.

[244] So that was, it was very much like the greed is good Gordon Gecko era of like the poster that had the Porsche with the naked lady on it that was like boys and their toys.

[245] It's like it's like everyone, everyone was assumed to be reaching for the same goal of being wealthy.

[246] Exactly.

[247] And now when you watch American Psycho, which seems totally insane, now, it really was like that.

[248] That's just like a satirized, campy version of exactly how it was.

[249] So, in August 26, 1986, 1986, it was right before people were going back to college or going away to college for the first time.

[250] And there was a bar.

[251] I believe it was the Upper West Side.

[252] I should have written it down.

[253] Sorry, it could be the Upper East Side, but I think it was the Upper West Side.

[254] And it was called Dorian's Red Hand.

[255] And that's where all the rich kids, prep school kids, used.

[256] to go.

[257] They could actually go there and drink under age.

[258] And their parents kind of knew that that's where they went.

[259] Yeah.

[260] And they liked that they went there as opposed to anywhere else.

[261] Oh my God.

[262] Like they knew where they were.

[263] It was a little bit of a clubhouse.

[264] It was very insidery.

[265] And it was like a very specific sect of like from like 17 to 23 year olds that went to this bar.

[266] And they probably weren't blackout drunks too.

[267] It was like you have a reputation.

[268] You need to hold your shit.

[269] So it's not like they were going to some dive bars.

[270] Right.

[271] It was like networky and kind of clubby.

[272] But I think there was a ton of coke back then.

[273] Oh my God.

[274] The 80s ate all the Coke.

[275] They did.

[276] At the beginning of the 80s, they thought Coke wasn't bad for you.

[277] They honestly believed it was like B12, which is the greatest.

[278] So anyway, at this bar is a guy named Robert Chambers.

[279] And he was, as it's, I found an old people magazine article from 1986.

[280] I bet it's worth so much money.

[281] Which is, well, it was online.

[282] But, yeah, if I had the real thing.

[283] But it talked about, here's how it described him.

[284] Robert Chambers seemed like every teen girl.

[285] dream.

[286] The son of a record promoter, he grew up in an elegant townhouse next to Carnegie Mansion.

[287] And as a child, he belonged to the Knickerbocker Greys, which was an anachronistic, but very upper -crust boys' drill team, whose members have included Vanderbiltz, Roosevelt, and Rockefellers.

[288] He was no scholar, but he'd been a debate team member of a soccer star at York Preparatory School.

[289] He was a rather charming, pleasant society boy, sums up his former headmaster.

[290] Every girl had a crush on him.

[291] So he would have never dated us, is what you're saying.

[292] Oh, no. This guy, if I was in the bar with him, he would have looked past me like I was part of the wallpaper.

[293] Oh, my God.

[294] And but, but he had kind of fallen on hard times.

[295] And the thing is with the perspective of knowing that this was a world of like spary top -siders, people like, I grew up in a farm town and people tried to pretend like they were preppies.

[296] Because preppy was basically saying, you go to prep school, you're rich.

[297] And no one was in my town yet tons of people tried to dress.

[298] like that.

[299] That was like the mall culture and the like the look of yeah of the day clean cut wealth.

[300] Totally.

[301] And like influence too because if you were like yeah he went to school with fucking Vanderbilt's you have influence.

[302] Exactly.

[303] So his parents got divorced and then the money stopped coming in from the dad.

[304] And he also, they say from age 14 he had a pretty bad drug habit.

[305] So his parents had separated.

[306] He got kicked out of Boston University for bad grades.

[307] And that was.

[308] And that was.

[309] he was only 19 when this happened, so he'd only been there for a year.

[310] So he fucked up there pretty quickly.

[311] According to his advisor, he'd been treated the spring before a drug rehab program in Minnesota for Coke.

[312] But he came back to New York City and was quote unquote on the circuit.

[313] And he was 6 '3, 220 pounds, and he was as popular as ever when he came back.

[314] Did you see a photo of him?

[315] Is he super hot?

[316] Yes.

[317] You know who he looks like?

[318] He's like kind of a more buffed -out.

[319] you remember the reporter from making a murderer who was that good looking guy he looks like that guy but with a crazy or more cartoony square chin wow so like good jeans sharp faced it the kind of the first guy you would see when you walk into a bar did he have your favorite attribute of a person high forehead did he care i think he did he was perfectly set up he was like tall football player looking blue eyes dark hair big eyebrows.

[320] How does none of those children ever turn out like just kind of ugly or plain?

[321] No, because it's there, it's all the breeding.

[322] It's like those, the rich people don't pick plain people.

[323] It's not like, I love this handsome woman for her brain.

[324] That never fucking happens.

[325] Yeah, that makes sense.

[326] Kind of ever.

[327] So anyway.

[328] Sorry, go on.

[329] So he was there and then this girl, Jennifer Levin, was there.

[330] And she was described as a magnet.

[331] Everyone seemed to gravitate toward her.

[332] She was 5 -7, 120 pounds brunette with great style.

[333] She was voted best -looking and best figure in her senior class yearbook.

[334] She liked parties better than books, but she had a goal.

[335] She had saved $1 ,600 from working in a restaurant over the summer, and she was sending herself to junior college.

[336] So she wasn't a rich girl.

[337] No, but she was like in the mix.

[338] So I think she was like, she may have gone to those schools, but no, it sounded like she was more.

[339] Yeah, she was more of made herself.

[340] She's the perfect murder victim.

[341] Self -made.

[342] That's right.

[343] Well, the thing is, like, her, she had an uncle that wrote for Sports Illustrated.

[344] I don't remember what her parents did.

[345] I do remember very distantly reading a big, long article about her, either in the New York Times or the New Yorker.

[346] But it was all about how her parents were more like the Artie types.

[347] Like someone had money somewhere, but like she had to earn her own.

[348] And so you'll see, this girl gets totally.

[349] fucking reamed by these this defense attorney set up I'm gonna tell me okay keep going I'm sorry I've never I don't know this one I'm so excited okay this was this was kind of amazing and actually looking back on it now I'm amazed of how we all just ingested things there was you know no internet you just kind of took it as it was given to you yeah so um so this is just a a quick story she had charm her family recalled what happened one day three weeks ago three weeks before the murder when she writing in a taxi told the caveat that she was nervous about her impending driver's exam before long the hackage shut off the meter and was tutoring her in parallel parking.

[350] So that's how charming she was.

[351] She never got to take that test because she went to Dorian's red hand that night and everyone was there kind of saying goodbye and like everyone's going off to college whatever.

[352] And Robert Chambers is there.

[353] Now they had dated a little bit before that.

[354] Robert Chambers' current girlfriend breaks up with him in front of everybody by throwing a bag of condoms at him and saying, you're not going to be using these with me anymore.

[355] And people think that the reason she broke up with him was because of Jennifer Levin, that she found out that he had been cheating on her with Jennifer Levin.

[356] That's a theory.

[357] I didn't find anything that was like, this is definitive.

[358] But it is definitive that this girl very publicly humiliated him and broke up with him in the really hideous way.

[359] So at four, somewhere, there was a couple different times listed in different articles I read somewhere between 3 .45 and 4 .30 in the morning, Jennifer and Robert Chambers leave this bar and walk across the street into Central Park, which is apparently the common thing as people would like, they said if Dorian's Red Hand was the meat market, Central Park was the grill.

[360] So you'd like, you'd meet somebody and chat with them and everyone would go into the park to have sex.

[361] That's just, like that was a dangerous park back then, wasn't it?

[362] Yeah.

[363] Yeah.

[364] Yeah.

[365] Like what?

[366] respectable girl wants to get boned in Central Park.

[367] But I guess it was kind of like, also Upper West Side, if it is West Side, which I think it is.

[368] I remember walking there when I lived in New York and being shocked at how safe it seemed.

[369] I was walking home at like 11 o 'clock at night.

[370] The streets are super busy, well lit.

[371] There's a doorman every 500 feet.

[372] That's true.

[373] I think also they lived in a world where they thought nothing could ever happen to them.

[374] Right.

[375] So, two hours later, Jennifer's body is found by a bicyclist in writing through Central Park.

[376] It's found behind the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Her shirt and bra are pushed up around her neck.

[377] Her skirt is above her waist.

[378] And her underwear are 50 yards away.

[379] And her whole body is bruised and battered, has cuts and bite marks all over it.

[380] Wow.

[381] So the police start processing the scene.

[382] And they don't say how they know this, but I felt.

[383] this in every article about this, Robert Chambers watched the police process the scene from across the street.

[384] He lived like minutes away walking distance, and he watched them as like they put up the tape and did the whole thing.

[385] Probably like the doorman said he was standing outside the door or something like that.

[386] Yeah, someone.

[387] Someone saw it.

[388] So basically when the cops do their footwork, they find out that he's the last person seen with her.

[389] So they go to his fancy townhouse.

[390] He opens the door and he's got scratches on his face and arms and it's when you see the picture it literally is like one long one in the middle and the little ones down the side it's a hand scratch down his face and he had him on his arms and he said it was his cat then the cats then the cops find out the cat had been declawed so then his then he changes his story and said yes I did leave the bar with her but then she left to go get cigarettes and I never saw her after that well she didn't smoke oh you go so then finally they get him uh he has a taped confession and this is what his taped confession is he says he says uh he and jennifer had gone from the bar to central park where they had sex including a bondage game in which levin tied up chambers wrists with her panties in the middle of this in his version of events something went wrong she hurt me he says um i told her to stop she wouldn't so freeing his hands, he said, I pulled her backwards, and then he claims he hit her once.

[391] And that's how she got killed.

[392] It's so unfair, dude.

[393] That's so unfair.

[394] Well, the assistant district attorney who was in that interview said to him, I've been in this business a while, and you're the first man I've seen raped in Central Park.

[395] So people weren't buying it from the outset.

[396] It just upsets me so much when a person like him can't just you're taking a little responsibility, just go the whole way instead of blaming it on her.

[397] It's so unfair.

[398] I know, but it's, we are talking about this is like, I'm sure part of it, this is a drug addict.

[399] This is a person who's slowly sliding down the status, the status mountain.

[400] And he probably is used to getting everything he wants and having everything go his way.

[401] And if he's a narcissist and possibly, sociopath, he's not going to handle this correctly, ever, or cop to it.

[402] And he probably doesn't have the kind of parents that are like, hey, guess what, do the right thing.

[403] Yeah, yeah.

[404] All is true.

[405] I'm coming at it from my own personality.

[406] Why can't things be good?

[407] Right.

[408] Yeah, of course.

[409] So, um, this race scenario was considered to be highly unlikely.

[410] In the light of the fact, the chambers, uh, was more than a foot taller than Jennifer.

[411] Um, she was, oh, this says she was five foot four.

[412] That's much different than 5 '7, which is from the different article.

[413] Anyway, but he was a foot taller than her and a hundred pounds heavier than her.

[414] So everyone's just like, yeah, I don't think so.

[415] Now, here's the problem.

[416] The way his defense attorneys did it, the articles that start coming out, because of course the media has to go with the grossest version of the story.

[417] So the New York Daily News had headlines like how Jennifer courted death and sex play got rough.

[418] And her reputation was totally attacked while Chambers was portrayed as a Kennedy -esque preppy altar boy with a promising future.

[419] Wow.

[420] Yeah.

[421] Oh, why media?

[422] I mean, and it's that gross thing of like, you see people talking about it online all the time now where it's like that plant parenthood shooter where they were like, he was sad and lonely and it's like, why are we talking about how hard it was for the guy who just shot out of these people we're not talking about the victim.

[423] Totally.

[424] Maybe they were sad and lonely too, but they didn't fucking shoot anyone.

[425] I mean, it's the weird media bias that, you know, we're all starting to become more and more aware of this time was by.

[426] And it's like one outlet picks it up and the others all have to go along with it.

[427] Right.

[428] And it's like, it's the same thing as these days of like clickbait.

[429] It's just the old version of clickbait.

[430] Yeah.

[431] In court, the defense sought to depict Levin as a promiscuous woman who kept a quote unquote sex diary, except for that never.

[432] existed.

[433] She had a small notebook that contained the names and phone numbers of her friends and notations of ordinary appointment.

[434] So she just had like a day runner like everybody else.

[435] And they tried to say she had a sex diary and she was that much of a slut.

[436] Even as if, hey, guess what?

[437] Even if that was true, you don't get to murder her.

[438] But in the 80s, that's a legitimate defense.

[439] Yeah.

[440] But these tactics, luckily, they were met with public outrage and there were protesters demonstrating outside the courtroom calling themselves justice.

[441] for Jennifer.

[442] So people got super pissed that that's the way they did it.

[443] And the prosecutors came right out and said he was high and drunk and he killed her in a rage because he could not perform sexual and that's really what happened.

[444] The jury deadlocked for nine days.

[445] A plea bargain was struck in which Chambers pleaded guilty to a lesser crime of manslaughter in the first degree which is a Class B felony and to one count of burglary for thefts from 1986.

[446] Who cares about that?

[447] So he served from March 22nd, 1988 to February 14th, 2003.

[448] But he's still in jail now because he got out and almost immediately got arrested again for selling drugs.

[449] Like he tried to move to the south with his girlfriend, then he moved back to New York, and basically just they got him immediately.

[450] And he's still in jail now.

[451] What was it like in jail for him that he immediately went out and sold drugs?

[452] Like he just didn't learn a fucking thing.

[453] He didn't.

[454] Yeah, he never got clean.

[455] I think he probably, knowing that that was something he would have to face once he did, he's just like, fuck it, I'm...

[456] How did he get paroled if he wasn't even fucking, like, reformed or, like...

[457] I mean, right?

[458] These are the questions that we ask every fucking episode.

[459] Now, but here's the gross part, or a grosser part.

[460] In April 1988, the tabloid television program, A Current Affair.

[461] Obtained and broadcast a home video showing Chambers at a party when he was free on bail.

[462] so this was before he before the trial and he was shown in the video playing with four lingerie clad girls choking himself with his hands while making loud gagging noises twisting a Barbie doll's head off and saying in a falsetto my name is oops I think I killed it and there is a movie called The Prep You Murder starring William Baldwin and Laura Flynn Boyle as Jennifer Levin Oh no that you can watch if you want to hear even more of that hideous story That makes me so sad.

[463] I want to know how his parents, how they reacted, what they're doing now, they keep in touch with him.

[464] I want to know everything.

[465] Well, and also there was a ton of, like, to me, this is about, he was very Catholic.

[466] He had a lot of family in the Catholic Church in New York City.

[467] There was a lot of, like, Anglican, but his Catholic priests coming forward and people kind of attesting because he was this fucking altar boy.

[468] It was all that shit.

[469] And it's, to me, it's the sexuality issue between the Catholics and Jewish people where it's a healthy, normal thing to have sex and be sexual.

[470] She was Jewish and he was Catholic.

[471] Yeah.

[472] And I think it was, there was that cultural thing of like, yeah, but she deserved it.

[473] Or she was loose or she did stuff like this.

[474] Or she was like asking for it.

[475] She was asking for it.

[476] I mean, the tying up thing is interesting to me because, all right, let's say you were going to go into Central Park to fool around.

[477] you're drinking.

[478] Like, you just have a quick fuck.

[479] You don't, you don't role play and get in, you know what I mean?

[480] Like, I can't imagine someone being like, let's get, let's get so complicated into like our sex acts that we get, that we play with bondage in a park, maybe at home, but not in a park.

[481] Not in a park.

[482] And also, in my opinion, the way that her clothes were, does not sound like she was, she was, um, complicit in what was happening.

[483] Totally.

[484] Her shirt and bra being pulled up to her neck.

[485] Yeah.

[486] Everything just seems like, I get it.

[487] If it's a quickie, you leave your clothes on and pull your skirt up, fine.

[488] You know what I mean?

[489] Like, it's that kind of shit.

[490] And then being bitten all over, like, nothing lines up to anything being casual sex at all.

[491] No. It's violent.

[492] Absolutely not.

[493] It is.

[494] So he's still in prison then.

[495] He's still in prison.

[496] Thank God.

[497] Yeah.

[498] And I think it's, I don't know, it makes me happy that people were protesting.

[499] But I think it's a really good thing of when you get fed a story of, like, Like, rough, the whole idea of rough sex was completely a fabrication on his part.

[500] And then this fucking newspaper just runs with it.

[501] Yeah.

[502] So it's like, oh, they had rough sex and it went out of control.

[503] No, no, no. Yeah.

[504] She thought she was going to have a fun makeout session with the cutest guy in the bar.

[505] And he fucking killed her.

[506] I wonder where they got the information that they had dated before, because that suggests that she was like willing, willing.

[507] So I wonder if that's even true.

[508] Well.

[509] Or what it means that they, like, maybe they went out, you know, on a date.

[510] Yeah, exactly.

[511] To me, when it says, like, well, they went out before.

[512] It's like, well, they had screwed before and they were going to screw again in the park.

[513] So maybe that wasn't true.

[514] And, yeah, he raped her.

[515] Because it sounds like they had sex before from the information, but that could not be true at all.

[516] Well, also, you know what makes me think of is like this.

[517] We all like people for superficial reasons at first.

[518] So it's like, it's the tall, really good looking guy who I'm sure was incredibly charming because he knew how to mix in and blend in to make sure he could fit in with the rich kids.

[519] And so I'm sure it's that thing of, like, the guy that you love in the bar, but then when shit goes down and, like, it's like they're making out, he can't get hard, it's her fucking fault.

[520] It's that creepy thing where it's like, you don't know who people really are until, like, the shit goes down.

[521] Especially if you had Coke Dick.

[522] Yeah.

[523] Everyone knows what Coke Dick is, right?

[524] I hope so.

[525] That'll be a very special episode.

[526] I hope people who listen to this know that because otherwise it's just people that should.

[527] I didn't be listening to this at all.

[528] So that's mine.

[529] Wow.

[530] I had never heard of that one.

[531] Really?

[532] I couldn't read when it happened.

[533] So maybe that was kept away from me. Yeah, probably.

[534] And it's so, you know, they made it as sorted as possible.

[535] Yeah.

[536] God, that's so off.

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[538] Absolutely.

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[556] Goodbye.

[557] Hey, this is exciting.

[558] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[559] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster detectives.

[560] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[561] Who killed Saz?

[562] And were they really after Charles?

[563] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[564] This season, murder hits close to home.

[565] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[566] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[567] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mystery.

[568] and twists arise.

[569] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[570] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[571] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[572] Goodbye.

[573] Well, actually, so my murder from the 1980s is one that I hadn't heard about until the Facebook group talked about it.

[574] You know about it.

[575] But I had never heard of this one, and it's so intense and fucked up that I wanted to talk about it in case other people hadn't heard it, too, because I want to ruin everyone's life.

[576] Yay, I'm so excited.

[577] And I guess there's, like, fucked up photos online that you could see of the crime scene with the bodies.

[578] The ones I saw, the bodies are, like, blacked out, but you can see certain things about it, too.

[579] And I guess the photos are really troubling, and I'm shocked that I didn't click on it.

[580] Yes.

[581] Do you mind if I guess?

[582] Yes.

[583] Is it Cabin 23 of the Keddy Murders?

[584] It sure is.

[585] Fuck, yes.

[586] I only know very little.

[587] It's Kevin 28.

[588] Oh, see, I don't know that much.

[589] But I love this one because it's so fucking weird and mysterious.

[590] And it's not that far from your hometown, right?

[591] It is.

[592] Well, it's, it's hours in, but it's like, it's, it's central California, which is a very weird area.

[593] Northern central California is like no man's land.

[594] Totally, totally.

[595] I mean, it's, it's back, for California, it's Backwoods, which is so surprising.

[596] You come to L .A. and you go to San Francisco and you, you know, all these little towns and you don't think it's like that.

[597] But then you, that nope.

[598] Yeah, there's a lot of little towns, little mining towns and such where people just stayed and cooked meth.

[599] That's exactly right.

[600] It's like bikers and drugs, essentially.

[601] Please don't kill us.

[602] There's definitely good bikers out there.

[603] There's very good bikers out there for sure.

[604] I'm just making sure that, okay.

[605] All right.

[606] So the KETI murders, K -E -D -D -I -E.

[607] It's an unsolved, 1981 American quadruple homicide that occurred in Caddy, California, which was a former resort town in the foothills of California's Sierra Nevada.

[608] And so it seemed like this little lake or this little forested area with cabins, a bunch of cabins.

[609] The murder took place in Cabin 28 during the late evening of April 11, 1981, or the early morning of the 12th.

[610] So there were three victims, as I said.

[611] The first one was Sue.

[612] Her name was Glenna Sue Sharp, and she was 36.

[613] And her son, John, who was 15, and John's friend, Dana, Wingate, who was 17.

[614] And at some point after the crime, it was realized that Sue's daughter, Tina, who was 12, was missing.

[615] So what happened was Sue Sharp and her five children had been renting the cabin since November 1980.

[616] and on the night of April 11th, it's so complicated because Sue is home with her two youngest boys who were little kids.

[617] And a friend of theirs named Justin was staying in the night.

[618] So there are three little kids in the back bedroom, three boys.

[619] And this is a tiny cabin.

[620] You can see pictures online of the crime scene and what a small cabin it was.

[621] And Tina came home.

[622] Their oldest, Sue's oldest daughter stayed at the cabin next door, which is always like, you know, like the chances man yes you know and Tina the 12 year old was wanting to stay with them and they were like no we want to you know we're the older girls we want to be alone which like the guilt that she must have carried with her the worst for the older sister for the rest of her life um so it's 10 p .m and the next morning the older sister Sheila comes home and finds sue and her brother and her brother's Van Dana just brutally murdered, brutally murdered.

[623] Let's see, they had all, all three victims had been bound with medical tape and electrical appliance wire.

[624] Over 22 feet of medical tape, a varying widths were found on the bodies, and there was no medical tape in the house, so it came from somewhere else.

[625] The bodies had been bludgeoned with hammers, two distinct sized hammers, so two different hammers um and sue and john have been stabbed repeatedly including stab wounds to the throat which is like fuck stabbiness man um is that going to be inspirational no it is to me like stabby in the head and neck is like because how long does it take to die from a stab wound dude i don't know but it just makes me think of my favorite show i survived and there are people who talk about being in the head and it actually isn't so bad for the person because there aren't that many nerves in your head but but of course it is i mean i'm that's a terrible thing to say no not bad but i mean like but yeah it's horrifying just being stabbed is horrifying i know a guy who got his his fucking throat slit and survived i want to meet that he was at the beach with his friends and some like fucking psycho like meth had gotten a fight with him and he was walking away and the guy came up behind him and fuck he has like a gnarly like tried to kill him whoa slice guys can we just say this right now don't do meth absolutely meth is like it's basically meth is like devil powder it's boiling it's like boiling your brain and all your your fucking logical thinking it's not good if you're if you have a temper to begin with it's just gonna fuck coke too don't snort shit yeah no don't snort it but but meth i have a friend dave who was on meth for years and he couldn't get off of it because it's insanely cheap and it's highly addictive and yet it's there's there's shit in it that it should never be in the human body no oh my god trash in it we do not condone meth on this podcast absolutely not no way we don't condone murder either even for our own entertainment please we're against it yeah we do want to discuss it though we do um but if you guys murder someone and it's like you blame it on my favorite murder we will not talk about it.

[626] Let's just agree with that right now.

[627] Yeah, you won't get famous on this.

[628] No, we will not talk about it.

[629] That's good.

[630] We should have said that in the beginning.

[631] If this is somehow tied to the Facebook group, to fuck, if you guys, they keep wanting to have meetups, we're not going to, we're not going to talk about it.

[632] We don't, I don't condone a meetup from my favorite murder group unless it's going to a live show that we're doing.

[633] And even then, please don't murder us.

[634] Guys, please be, just be careful.

[635] Oh, my God, be careful.

[636] Don't get stabbed in the head.

[637] head.

[638] Anyway, keep going.

[639] Anyways, stabbed in the head.

[640] We actually, that, like, that going off like that is a little methy of us.

[641] Yeah.

[642] Which part?

[643] How we just went down that path for so long.

[644] We both had like three cups of coffee.

[645] Yeah, that's very too.

[646] Lunch we both.

[647] Yeah.

[648] I had a lot of coffee.

[649] Um, so found near John's body was a flimsy table knife and a bloody hammer, seven inch butcher knife was found nearby as well.

[650] fuck man seven to put your name really um examination of the bodies determined that each of the victims had been bludgeoned with hand what I already said all that stab wounds to the throat Dana the boy who wasn't the who was the friend was manually strangled to death and bludgeoned with another weapon while Sue was bludgeoned with a rifle brought by the killers which is such a weird one pellet from that rifle from fired from the rifle along with several pieces of the barrel sites.

[651] I don't know what that is.

[652] I can imagine.

[653] We're removed from the scene, but the rifle itself has never recovered.

[654] The barrel sites are the little things that stick up that help you aim at the end of the barrel when you're shooting.

[655] Are you a murder?

[656] No country.

[657] It's just that's like BB gun, you know, like, rifle stuff.

[658] I think I'm right.

[659] I'm pretty sure.

[660] I believe it.

[661] Don't correct us.

[662] That's our new thing.

[663] We never want to be correct.

[664] Don't correct us.

[665] It's going to be in the back of the shirts we make.

[666] If we're wrong, let it be.

[667] Yeah.

[668] Don't be a no at all.

[669] A bloody knife was also found among evidence found in the trap.

[670] So basically, the cops completely bungled this investigation.

[671] So Tina is missing.

[672] She's the 12 -year -old girl, which they didn't realize right away.

[673] And because the whole fucking family's dead, right?

[674] Well, the three boys in the back are fine and alive and supposedly didn't hear anything.

[675] But there's conflicting evidence.

[676] Evidence.

[677] There's a blood stain on the door of the kid's room.

[678] And one of the main suspects, his son was one of the kids in the back room.

[679] So why wouldn't he kill that kid?

[680] And it's also, there's also, you know, who was the target of this murder and why?

[681] And it's thought that Sue, the mom was because she knew something maybe about drug making.

[682] Maybe she was, you know, that one of the prime suspect's wife hated her and didn't know that the boys would be home because I guess they were at a local bar and hitchhiked home and weren't expected to be home.

[683] So this murderer might have come in to either rape her something and got and didn't expect Tina, the little 12 year old girl, would be sharing a room with the mom.

[684] So then had to kidnap her.

[685] So she's gone.

[686] She's found four years.

[687] She's found in 1984 her skull and several other bones were recovered in Butte County and Was that far away?

[688] I don't know but the skull was initially found and they thought it was of a young boy and an anonymous color called twice and said it's actually Sue or it's actually Tina and guess how many tapes they lost of that recording both of them all all of them so the anonymous caller no trace of him um it also is said it doesn't matter i know it's also said that a teacher had an obsession with tina so maybe that was the case because she was missing but they were able to age the skull she was the same age she was killed pretty much right away oh yeah so it's not like she was stolen and kidnapped and held kept yeah yeah so she was killed.

[689] Let's see.

[690] So the boys, but okay, the boys were found on injured.

[691] The case grew cold.

[692] Let's see.

[693] They released the original and backup copy of the audio, the anonymous call to an undisclosed member of law enforcement.

[694] And they were released to the same person and they disappeared.

[695] Let's see.

[696] The murders remain unsolved.

[697] Although it's active because good old fucking Reddit is like on the case.

[698] And this is where I got a lot of information from, including the main suspects, which is Martin Smart and his friend John Bowbed, B -O -U -B -E -D.

[699] Bobidi.

[700] So Smart was an next -door neighbor who was good friends with the local sheriff, like besties with the local sheriff, right?

[701] And it was Smart's stepson who was staying the cabin, who was the little kid in the back.

[702] Oh.

[703] And then when he was questioned by law enforcement, he slipped up and said, he's quiet enough to where he could have noticed something without me detecting him, indicating your stepson was a quiet kid that might have been, might have seen you at a murder scene, right?

[704] And then those other kids, the little other little kids terrified.

[705] Oh, my God.

[706] Oh, my God.

[707] Right.

[708] Let's see.

[709] And then Boad Obedee.

[710] had FBI connections and was federally prosecuted because some of organized crime shit.

[711] So this guy was this fucking criminal as well.

[712] And it's like I was reading this shit and there are so many criminals that were in this town that it was like a multitude of suspects could have been even, let's see, hold on.

[713] Let's see.

[714] There were questions circumstantial evidence, but they're reopening the case.

[715] But they've both died of natural causes since.

[716] then.

[717] Those two suspects?

[718] Yeah, which is like such a bummer that when when the main suspects die.

[719] Yeah.

[720] And even when they keep searching and like come to the conclusion, it's just such a bummer.

[721] Well, what's super weird to me is usually when people get killed because they find out something they're not supposed to know about, say, a case or a drug deal or whatever, you don't get bludgeoned and stabbed a bunch of times.

[722] That's personal.

[723] That's true.

[724] And so Sue's body, was tied up in a way that was super sexual, but she wasn't raped.

[725] She was basically found naked from the waist down, splayed open in a humiliating manner, which is like, it's almost like wanting the person who finds them to be, you know, freak the fuck out.

[726] Yeah.

[727] And integrate her.

[728] Luckily, the older sister was smart enough to make the little boys in the back room come out at the window so they didn't have to see this scene.

[729] And the other thing is the kid, the kid who, um, who wasn't part of the family, his head was placed on like a pillow.

[730] So it's almost like they were taking care of him as if they knew him.

[731] And he wasn't killed in the same manner that the other kids were killed.

[732] Like he was basically just a witness and had to go.

[733] Right.

[734] So maybe they were, you know, it sounds like someone was pissed off at this woman and this family and fucking sent some kind of message to whom, I don't know.

[735] It's also said that there's a, So there's a sketch of a suspect that, I think one of the kids drew because they did say they saw someone or one of the kids.

[736] And it looks a lot like, it's very similar to Ing and Lake.

[737] And they lived about four hours south of Keddy, which is, of course, the big serial killers.

[738] And if you look at the sketch online, it fucking looks like them.

[739] Apparently, Charles Eng might have been in prison at the time, although it's kind of unclear.

[740] Wait, it's a sketch of one person or two people?

[741] I can't really tell.

[742] It might be a sketch of one person and two different looks.

[743] Oh, I see.

[744] But it does definitely look like Lake.

[745] What was Lake's first name?

[746] Leonard Lake.

[747] Leonard Lake.

[748] Thank you.

[749] My Lord.

[750] So.

[751] I was so proud that I just thought of that.

[752] I know.

[753] I'm really impressed with you.

[754] I never remember anything.

[755] I don't either.

[756] Perfect for having podcasts, right?

[757] Sure.

[758] So in this past couple months, the Plumas County Sheriff, Greg, Hagward has said, we're arriving at points where we're going to be taking some next steps in the case.

[759] And they're crediting Reddit.

[760] Yes.

[761] They're like straight up.

[762] Oh, I love that.

[763] It's because these fucking people who have become obsessed with the case and are like dissecting it completely.

[764] It's pretty amazing.

[765] They tore down the cabin recently because people were just like fucking going there all the time.

[766] Hagwood said there are people, some still living in the county who know what happened and were possibly involved, whether directly or after the fact.

[767] And circumstantial evidence was never enough to charge these two guys that everyone thinks did it.

[768] And so Dana Wingate, the kid who was a friend who came over, was not killed in the same fashion as the other two.

[769] He was beaten but not stabbed.

[770] He was strangled and was made comfortable by receiving a cushion from the couch to rest his head on prior to the execution.

[771] And you can see photos where, like, his head is blacked out, but you can see that his head is on a fucking pillow.

[772] And they're all like next to each other too, which is so awful to see each other die that way.

[773] Okay.

[774] So the last thing I want to say about this is that so John and Dana, the two boys who were killed, the two men who were killed, were last seen walking along State Route 70 near Quincy.

[775] So they were on their way home.

[776] And the crime may have already been in progress when they arrived at home.

[777] So I feel like Sue was the target, whether it was for rape or some kind of revenge.

[778] or something like that.

[779] I think maybe she wasn't even supposed to get killed.

[780] So it sounds to me like it was botched.

[781] And then they walked in and the whole thing turned into like some kind of like a fight where then they had to kill everybody?

[782] Yeah, it sounds like it.

[783] Except for the kids in the back who maybe was one of the suspects kid, steps in.

[784] Fucked up.

[785] Oh, and someone on Reddit wrote, Ketty holds many skeletons in its closet.

[786] there were in 1981 so many potential perps in town that you could have stood in the main street thrown a dart with your eyes closed and hit one the sharp family were in this idyllic little resort town surrounded by child blasters drug runners professional criminals corrupt cops and businessmen habitual transient and at least one known serial killer fuck fuck i know who's the known serial killer do you know i don't know i love that i know i had his name but i had never heard of him and i forgot to look him up that's incredible i know it's so because it makes me think they're reopening it now of course because of the Reddit thing I love the way this is like people are just be like fine if you're not going to solve it we're going to fucking solve it yeah and everyone keeps coming to the same conclusion yeah that's amazing but also if it was an inside job or if it was some kind of like corrupt cop situation those people it's like their power is gone and so there's like new blood that's like yeah we can't have this just sitting and being like defining our town well actually the main The new sheriff was around back then.

[787] He initially got fired before the murders because he said something inflammatory against the then sheriff who was like, you're out of here.

[788] But then when he got back on the, he was reinstated, they forbade him from researching this case.

[789] Huh.

[790] So now that's weird.

[791] Yeah, now that he's the sheriff, he's like super fucking into it.

[792] It is on.

[793] And it's on.

[794] I wonder how much evidence is missing, like those tape.

[795] Like, I wonder how much people fucked with it.

[796] Yeah.

[797] How hard it's going to be.

[798] You don't know what I mean?

[799] Well, the fact that the main suspect was one of the sheriff's, like, best buds.

[800] And evidence got lost.

[801] Says so much about it.

[802] Yeah, that's very suspicious.

[803] Yeah, evidence doesn't just get lost.

[804] Right.

[805] You know how I first found out about this murder?

[806] And it surprised me because it is in California, although it really is like a different state.

[807] Totally.

[808] That part of California.

[809] is like there just no one lives up there and then the people that do are the people who are trying to get away absolutely essentially um but do you ever see the movie the strangers oh it's based on that well that's what they say but they were like because the strangers was billed as a true story but then when i after i saw the strangers i was like that was so fucking crazy what's the true story and they're basically like the manson murders and the kettie cabin murders so i didn't i never saw that movie it's not similar at all well it's just people killing other people people for no reason.

[810] Essentially.

[811] It's the loosest version of it based on a true story.

[812] Well, there is a documentary about this murder that came out in 2004 that I think it was some kind of teacher was teaching his kids how to make a documentary and someone suggested this murder and the guy, the teacher got obsessed with it.

[813] So I guess there's a pretty good documentary online.

[814] You'd probably find it in YouTube.

[815] I think it's called Cabin 28.

[816] And it's just all the details of the murder.

[817] Love it.

[818] I don't watch that.

[819] Yeah.

[820] Very cool.

[821] Yeah.

[822] And it's fucked up.

[823] 1980, man. It's crazy fucked up.

[824] The 80s.

[825] The 80s.

[826] Thank you.

[827] In a lot of places, not as Cindy Lopper as you would want it to be.

[828] She did not get spread far and wide.

[829] Let's see.

[830] I'm going to look real quick on our Facebook page and see, because we always put what the subject's going to be.

[831] Yep.

[832] And then you guys can tell us what your favorite murder of the subject is.

[833] And as you do that, I'm just going to mention.

[834] Yeah.

[835] Um, that, uh, a girl whose Twitter handle is Action Athena.

[836] Oh, my God.

[837] Did a cartoon panel of us.

[838] It's from the first episode, I believe.

[839] Is it?

[840] Um, I think so.

[841] That's what she said.

[842] Or it's the first one she heard.

[843] Um, and, uh, it's, she posted it.

[844] It's on our Twitter feed at My Fave Murder at MyFave Murder.

[845] At My Fave Murder.

[846] And it's just, of course, we love it.

[847] It's us being drawn is us talking to each other in Georgia's, living room, but it's just super exciting that people are spending their time, um, making things like that for us and recreating shit we've done.

[848] It's a real quote.

[849] It's a real conversation that we had and it's fucking hilarious.

[850] It's very funny.

[851] It makes, it means so much to me that people care.

[852] I know.

[853] It's so fun.

[854] And it's really cool.

[855] Not to tease you guys, but we're going to have t -shirts for sale soon.

[856] We're planning a lot, a couple live shows, maybe once a month if we can.

[857] Um, so you're going to You'll hear that first at the Facebook group.

[858] So I would join the Facebook group so you can get like the first and my fave murder on Twitter.

[859] We're pretty good at keeping up with that.

[860] Okay.

[861] So someone named Jessica.

[862] We're not saying real names, right?

[863] Or someone named Jessica said her favorite is Gary Heidnick.

[864] He kidnapped and killed women by digging pits in his basement and keeping the women in there, straight up Buffalo Bill shit.

[865] Whoa.

[866] Yeah.

[867] I've never heard of that.

[868] named Amber said, I think this is one, this one is kind of weird and obscure, but in 1985, a little girl was a girl named Cinnamon Brown, she was 14, killed her stepmom at her father's behest, then tried to overdose on sleeping pills, which her father also told her to do.

[869] I totally remember this one and it freaked me out.

[870] The police found her unconscious in the doghouse outside and arrested her and she was ultimately released in 1992.

[871] Apparently the whole reason behind this was that her dad was sleeping with his wife's younger sister, who I think was pregnant with this child at the time.

[872] Evidently, murder seemed much more appealing than divorce.

[873] I totally remember this story.

[874] That's fuck up.

[875] She tried to overdose and was sleeping in the dog house.

[876] It was her stepmom or her real mom?

[877] It was her real mom.

[878] Fuck.

[879] That's it.

[880] Yeah.

[881] Oh, no, no. I'm sorry, it was her stepmom.

[882] Yeah.

[883] Like, that's better.

[884] I know.

[885] I mean, it is, though.

[886] But it's all horrible.

[887] The idea that to make a child murder someone is just you should.

[888] Here's one more by Myra.

[889] Judith Eva Barcy, she was the voice of Duckie in the Lamb Before Time.

[890] Totally remember that.

[891] Her catchphrase, yep, yep, yep from that movie is inscribed on her grave.

[892] Both her and her mother, Maria Barcy, were shot and killed by her father, Joseph Barcy, in 1988.

[893] She was only 10 years old.

[894] No. Oh, honey.

[895] Sweet angel.

[896] Shit.

[897] We'll take all the kids.

[898] You're thinking about murdering a kid.

[899] We'll adopt it for you.

[900] Oh, God.

[901] Actions asked.

[902] Well, and also just what brand of monster are you that you can kill a child?

[903] It's just, it's fascinating.

[904] It's his, it's crypto zoology to me. It's like, where are you, how did you get there?

[905] What the fuck are you?

[906] I mean, as advanced as our brains are, the fact that that can still be a thought that not even cross, just crosses our mind, but that you act out.

[907] Yeah.

[908] We're supposed to be way, we're supposed to be evolved way past that.

[909] Yeah, it's not good.

[910] No. I'm going to give up my.

[911] address to have people want to drop off their kids at my house instead of killing them?

[912] What if I did that?

[913] I would edit it out and then we would have a long talk.

[914] No, I want to keep it in.

[915] No, you have to let me. It's our first fight.

[916] It's my choice, Karen.

[917] Oh, my God.

[918] You won't let me include my address in the podcast.

[919] Oh, I could keep out my PO box and if people want to send us shit, they can.

[920] Yeah.

[921] But that's still scary.

[922] What if someone just waits at the PO box to kill me?

[923] hey look it's okay no I don't know what to say I mean it just immediately made me think of how there's so many ways to find people online these days and I just gave someone an idea so now if I ever give my PO box out they're like they got the idea from me every way you turn there's danger anxiety medications try them there's so many ways that you can help yourself this podcast was brought to you by Xanax not meth lemictal and And the makers of machetes.

[924] And therapists.

[925] And just talking about it.

[926] Because most of the time, that helps a lot.

[927] Oh, man. Talk about it.

[928] Talking about it.

[929] We're talking about it.

[930] This is therapy.

[931] Sure, it is for me. Yeah, me too.

[932] All right.

[933] Anything else?

[934] I think that's, I think I'm thoroughly depressed.

[935] I'm thoroughly stoked.

[936] This was a good one.

[937] This was fun.

[938] I liked this one a lot.

[939] What should our next theme be?

[940] We should pick it at the end of every episode, do you think?

[941] Let's do the 90s.

[942] Let's just go through the net.

[943] Honestly, yeah.

[944] Let's do the 90s.

[945] Should we?

[946] Yeah.

[947] Okay, great.

[948] Because I found a lot of good ones.

[949] And every time I saw a year, which one was like, damn it?

[950] That actually happened to me, too.

[951] It was always like either the 70s or the 90s when I was looking.

[952] Okay, let's do the 90s this time.

[953] And then maybe we can do the 70s next time.

[954] I wonder if there was like, in the 90s, there was some, oh, I was just going to say, if there was a rave murder or a junko jeans murder.

[955] And we both know there was.

[956] Yeah.

[957] There was that amazing Michael's, is it Selig murder?

[958] Yeah.

[959] That was crazy.

[960] Party Monster is a good movie.

[961] Party Monster is a great movie that's based on that.

[962] I'm sure everyone has seen it that's listening to this.

[963] But, oh, my God, it's dark.

[964] I went to raves and war Jinko's.

[965] Dude, it's just, once again, it brings, I hate to be like, I don't want to sound like the church later or anything because I've done plenty of drugs in my life.

[966] But they really are, no one talks about how it's like, oh, pot is the gateway drug to, you know, harder drugs.

[967] But harder drugs are the gateway drug to murder.

[968] They really are.

[969] Yeah.

[970] I don't think, I'm not going to say this because it's not true, but no one's, no one's fucking killed anyone on pot.

[971] That's not true at all.

[972] Yeah, I'm sure it's one hundred percent.

[973] But you know what it is?

[974] It's like someone's car just strangely listed over into, you know, like a guy riding a bike or something.

[975] It's just purely from being out of it.

[976] Did you hear that they just pulled two cars from like the 50s and 60s out of a lake and six people were found total and they were like missing people?

[977] No. And these are my favorite.

[978] Yeah.

[979] all together no their cars were side by side that they were like years apart that they just drove into this lake and they pulled these two cars out you can see the resting remains of these cars online do you remember what city or what state i want to say michigan because everything happens in michigan but that could be totally wrong could be ohio everything oh wait which reminds me this is my favorite thing i read on the facebook page and so everyone else probably already read it but i just want to say this because it's so fucking awesome So there have been all these bodies washing up in this small town in Ohio and the Rust Belt.

[980] And there's a bunch of articles about it.

[981] There was a guy who posted my hometown murder because I think that's probably where he's from.

[982] And then someone didn't update, which is an article from Jezebel, about how a sex worker in Las Vegas shot a guy that was trying to murder her.

[983] And she killed him.

[984] And it turned out he had a full on murder kit in his car.

[985] He had no money to pay her.

[986] He had bleach.

[987] He had handcuffs.

[988] He had all this, all this stuff.

[989] There was no way it wasn't a murder kit.

[990] He had done it before.

[991] He had done it before.

[992] He had told her he was going to jail for a very long time, right before he thought he was going to kill her.

[993] And he had been a security guard at Hoover Dam, which creeped me out for some reason so badly.

[994] It's because when people are in some kind of power or authority, you trust them.

[995] Yeah.

[996] But they think that this guy might be connected to those breastbelt murders.

[997] because he has been in both places or at least they're like thinking that if he wasn't connected to that he's definitely killed people before and she grabbed his gun in some kind of tussle right yep he was strangling her and she got his gun away from him and shot him dead good for her fuck yeah listen if you're going to fight back you got a shoot to kill do it he's going to kill you i think about that often like if i had the chance to if i had that chance i would shoot someone in the fucking head I wouldn't shoot them in the leg and debilitate them.

[998] Also, it would be very difficult if you were not a trained professional to then be like, here's how I'm going to incapacitate this person.

[999] It's like someone's trying to kill you.

[1000] You try to kill them.

[1001] That's just like.

[1002] Well, Karen has how to use a gun, so don't fucking come after her.

[1003] Apparently, I just learned that today.

[1004] Yeah, every podcast, I'm going to reveal a little bit more and then it's going to turn out that I, too, am a serial killer.

[1005] What if you killed me?

[1006] Oh, you know, the safety that you just flip the safety off.

[1007] What if in our 100th episode, you murder me?

[1008] I feel like it would be a great ending.

[1009] I don't see what the problem is.

[1010] Let's say 200.

[1011] Okay.

[1012] Okay.

[1013] Or 250.

[1014] Okay.

[1015] All right.

[1016] We have to finish.

[1017] Okay.

[1018] Thanks for listening, you guys.

[1019] Facebook, Twitter.

[1020] This and that.

[1021] You know how to find us.

[1022] Thanks for being there.

[1023] Thanks for listening.

[1024] Okay, bye.

[1025] Stay sexy, Karen.

[1026] Don't get murdered.