BONUS: Rhys Darby (Live)

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[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[4] Monica, it's a bonus Saturday episode.

[5] Happy weekend, Armchairie.

[6] Yeah.

[7] So we had a fun opportunity to go down to Dads 2 .0, which is a conference of just dads trying to be good dads, which is lovely.

[8] Yeah, learning about all kinds of different dad stuff.

[9] Yeah, dad stuff.

[10] And we got to talk with Reese Darby, who is a dad.

[11] Yep.

[12] I fell in love with him in Flight of the Concords, and he's also in the new Jumanji.

[13] Jumanji, the next level.

[14] Oh.

[15] Ooh.

[16] I know they filmed a lot in the sand dune, so I'm excited about that.

[17] Yeah.

[18] But yeah, we got to sit down and talk with him about being a dad.

[19] So here it is for your listening pleasure.

[20] Saturday armchair.

[21] Maybe you're getting through a little hangover.

[22] This will perk you right up.

[23] This will gently lower you back down to earth.

[24] Enjoy Reese Darby.

[25] He's an object to...

[26] Rees Darby.

[27] Welcome.

[28] Hello.

[29] You carried a book out with you that you wrote.

[30] Yes.

[31] With a few ghostwriters or you did it?

[32] Oh, come on.

[33] Come on.

[34] No, I'm very hands -on.

[35] so yeah I wrote it it's a children's book I'm a dad I'm a dad I've been a dad for a while I've got two boys He sounded like you were saying I'm an alcoholic I'm a dad I'm a dad You're gonna find out sooner or later It just happened I can't I'm sorry Now I've got to deal with it How many kids do you have Two?

[36] Two Boy or girl boy boy girl Two boys, 13 and 9.

[37] Oh, wow.

[38] Okay.

[39] That's their names.

[40] That's not their ages.

[41] Their names are 13 and 9.

[42] Okay.

[43] Which is confusing because they're actually 7 and 19.

[44] Yeah.

[45] They only had one year where it made sense.

[46] It's a nightmare.

[47] Yeah.

[48] I'm going to sit like that now.

[49] Yeah.

[50] Do you find that when I chat with people, I tend to mirror what they're doing?

[51] Has it occurred to you like when you're having breakfast with somebody?

[52] Yeah.

[53] I'm like, why am I doing this?

[54] And then I'm, oh, well, he was doing it.

[55] Now I'm doing it.

[56] Yeah.

[57] Oh, boy.

[58] I don't know.

[59] It's weird.

[60] They call that something, right?

[61] Like a man spread.

[62] It's like a power move on a subway.

[63] Man spreading.

[64] Yeah.

[65] Not to be confused with man spread, which is delicious and low calories and high in protein.

[66] Yeah.

[67] I'd like to say right now, though, as a man, and I think some men here will back me up, it's not a thing that we try to do.

[68] I'm not going to sit down right now I'm going to spread and man it you know I mean we just sit down you know and also we have junk well thank you I'm not you know I'm just defending men for a second I'm not like a root I'm not but I do like I do sit like that a lot so sometimes they need to be snuggled and sometimes they need to air out exactly what so when I first heard about man spreading my I got defensive initially because I was like I have a protuberance down there I have business that what you call them yeah Yes, yes.

[69] At any rate, I did get defensive, and I tried to explain that, well, you know, there's a lot going on down there, and sometimes you've got to kind of spread it out.

[70] Yeah.

[71] But then I saw some photos, and no, this is a different thing.

[72] This is assholes just like, yep, this is my space.

[73] This is my territory.

[74] Is there dudes out there tonight that territorial it like that, like full, you're not going to admit it.

[75] But if we went quickly, we've got a small drone camera, just send it around us, have a check it out.

[76] and a couple of dudes, yeah.

[77] Yeah, okay, good, they're showing a few people out.

[78] Great, well, good, we got rid of them.

[79] Now, how long have you been married?

[80] Are you married?

[81] Well, let me preface this.

[82] Yeah.

[83] Because there's a cultural difference between Reese and most of us here, which is you're from New Zealand.

[84] Another country, yeah.

[85] Left off of a lot of maps, I recently learned.

[86] Yes.

[87] Yeah, sorry about that.

[88] So I've been sort of helping to run a campaign whereby we find New Zealand.

[89] on maps.

[90] Has anyone here seen a map without my country on it?

[91] Yeah, IKEA famously sells one.

[92] That was the most recent one, which was embarrassing for them because they are just about to open a store in New Zealand.

[93] Yeah.

[94] Not the best public outreach start.

[95] But yeah, so that's one of the things I'm into.

[96] But I do want to say you're from New Zealand and when I did a movie down there some 15 years ago and I found that many, many people that lived there had unions and had children, but they didn't get married.

[97] They would say my partner, and that was you at the time for me. Yeah, we're kind of progressive, very modern, one of the most modern, forward -thinking countries I like to think in the world, and so, you know, we definitely, the wedding still happen, but there's certainly a lot of de facto relationships, a lot of couples who are just, yeah, this is my partner, and, you've got six kids.

[98] I mean, yeah I still have a lot of kids That's just bad You know, no contraception Is that, would you say It's, we do have it It's old It's like from the 70s A lot of it's yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah It's been a long time Pass it around Have you finished with the condom Because I'm thinking of having fun tonight You're gonna have it all day Or You think you might finish up With that sometime soon Is it a more secular society Why do you think They're so able to kind of reject that a formal tradition.

[99] We have always thought outside the box.

[100] We're very individual.

[101] It's because of our isolation.

[102] I mean, honestly, who's been there?

[103] Has anyone been?

[104] There's a few people have been there.

[105] Yep.

[106] I remember you guys when you came.

[107] Yeah, yeah.

[108] So this guy, it was a big night.

[109] You still got the condom?

[110] Because you could, yeah.

[111] So I need that back, actually.

[112] That's the country condom.

[113] If you don't mind.

[114] So, yeah, I think we are isolated.

[115] Next stop literally is Antarctica.

[116] fuel up.

[117] We're further away from Australia than people think.

[118] That's why sometimes we just get missed off the map because they go, well, we've got Australia, that's kind of big continent, and then, oh, that's it, isn't it?

[119] You know, no one draws in the other little islands or the Pacific Islands, of which we are one.

[120] But we're just a very big one.

[121] Yes, you are quite a large, good -sized one.

[122] And I would imagine, because I have this even on a regional scale, which is I'm from Michigan.

[123] You know, we're raising kids in Los Angeles.

[124] And I'm sure lots of it is just in my head, but I often am aware of like, oh, there were kind of some values in Michigan that I would like to hold on to.

[125] And then there's some pretty cool values in California that I'd like to incorporate.

[126] But I wonder how conscious are you being from New Zealand and then you live in Los Angeles, yeah?

[127] And do you ever think like, oh, I think kids would turn out better if we were back in Auckland.

[128] Do you have a fear?

[129] Absolutely.

[130] But this is why, you know, I refuse to stay put.

[131] I mean, I'm a man of, I'm not a rolling stone, but I, yet, although, but I do, I do like to keep on the, I'm on the run.

[132] Let's unpack that for one second.

[133] Would you say, because I suffered severely from wanderlust, do you have wanderlust?

[134] I think there's certainly a bit of that.

[135] But it's also put into the career choice that I've come up with, or the one I was given through the stars, you know, meant to be.

[136] As was ordained by the universe, yeah.

[137] So part of that is, you know, certainly leaving the isolation of, you know, the most beautiful place in the world, New Zealand, and then going via Michigan straight to Great Britain, sort of the motherland for us, being a Commonwealth country.

[138] I grew up obsessed with British comedy.

[139] Well, yeah, I was wondering because if you grew up here in the U .S., you're obsessed with either L .A. or New York.

[140] Those are your options.

[141] And so being from Michigan, when a kid would transfer to our elementary school, that was from California.

[142] It didn't matter what haircut he had, clothes.

[143] He immediately was elevated the coolest kid in school.

[144] Justin Tishira was his name.

[145] He wore striped lead jeans, and we were like, we must get those.

[146] They're from California.

[147] But I wonder, when you grew up in New Zealand, is London that destination?

[148] Yes, definitely.

[149] It is.

[150] It's kind of like we go there.

[151] We feel like there's a connection, and so we go, normally we do what we're, what we, we call the OE, which is the overseas experience, which means just going to London.

[152] And then we work there.

[153] Just going to the country that's nearly identical, but on the other side of the world.

[154] You go there for two years, and you work in the bars.

[155] So you become, yeah, and then when your visa runs out, you come home and you say, oh, I've seen the world.

[156] It's quite similar.

[157] Seen with the other world.

[158] What's the queen like?

[159] I didn't get close enough.

[160] and from there I guess it is the gateway to the rest of Europe but being a comedian I got to see a lot of Europe and then also the Middle East Africa and then coming to America was something I thought would never happen because of the whole it just seems there's no access in terms of being part of the Commonwealth I can work and these other places but America was kind of like well you've got to get a green card the green card you know you're going to have to find some low self -esteem single in Nevada, marry her to gain access.

[161] Exactly.

[162] And so it's almost in the too hard basket for us.

[163] But then, of course, it happened.

[164] I was very lucky to get on a TV show, fly to the Concordes, which some of you guys know.

[165] Made by my friends and HBO.

[166] And so they said, come and do that with us.

[167] And I said, are you sure?

[168] And I said, yeah.

[169] And I said, okay, I've never acted before.

[170] But before we get there, because Flight of the Concordes is in my top five comedic things ever made, it's so brilliant.

[171] You were so fantastic on it.

[172] But before that, you were in the military, is there conscription in New Zealand?

[173] Is it like Israel where you've got to No. Oh.

[174] No, I loved it, but it is weird explaining it because why would I do it?

[175] Why, you know, I just, I want to get to the part where you know Morse code because to me that makes me feel like you're a time traveler.

[176] Like, I didn't realize any human, modern, world you can do that yeah i was pretty much officially and i tell this to people so that it is official i was the last of the mors coders come on i learned it in the military and then yeah at the time and this is the new zealand army yes we have one and this was 1991 i joined up by the way prior to this i was in the uh cadet unit you know like oh like rotsc here rotsc here kids do in high school Yeah, so we have this thing called the Air Training Corps, the ATC, similar things.

[177] That's like an Air Force equivalent, and then there's Army Cadets.

[178] And so basically my mum sent me into these, like, it's just once a week, and you put on a uniform and you march around and you learn a bit of war history or something.

[179] I don't know.

[180] It was to get me off the streets, you know.

[181] Okay.

[182] Because if I was on the streets, watch out.

[183] You know, I was.

[184] Take cover.

[185] Yeah, I had a spray can and everything.

[186] I said, oh, quick get him in the army.

[187] He's going to spray something.

[188] Were you raised by a single mom?

[189] Yes.

[190] You were?

[191] Yeah.

[192] Me too.

[193] Oh, really?

[194] Yeah.

[195] Oh, cool.

[196] So, yeah, mom was, do you have siblings?

[197] Yeah, I got four.

[198] Single mother, five kids.

[199] Well, no, mom and dad were together with the four kids.

[200] And then I turned up.

[201] In the wash. Nine, yeah.

[202] nine years later.

[203] Oh, okay.

[204] Yeah, I just crash landed in Nana's backyard, and I was found.

[205] So dad freaked out and left.

[206] Okay.

[207] And so then mum was like, well, I'll look after him, I suppose.

[208] But Nana did a lot of the looking after as well.

[209] And I got three sisters.

[210] Oh, wow.

[211] A lot of female energy.

[212] Female, strong.

[213] And then my brother, who, you know, we get on, but it wasn't a big connection.

[214] there.

[215] Well, it's a huge age gap, but I do wonder, because I didn't have a dad around.

[216] I mean, granted, I'd see him every other weekend.

[217] I trash talk him way too much.

[218] He did give me hugs and kisses.

[219] I could have done a lot worse.

[220] With that said, I didn't have a mail in the house whose approval I was gaining.

[221] I'd have five -year older brother, but he certainly wouldn't get any, because why would he?

[222] So I have been on a relentless course of getting mail approval from the get -go.

[223] I just jumped headlong at, and I'm just curious at all if, like, the military, is any extension of that experience for you.

[224] Yeah, I think there's a possibility, but I think it was mainly down to two things.

[225] I watched way too many war movies in the 90s, and I wanted to be part of a team, part of something.

[226] I wanted to go overseas, and I wanted to rescue some POWs or something to be part of an action team.

[227] Rambo style.

[228] Yeah, that kind of thing.

[229] Yeah, yeah.

[230] And the other thing, well, I like machines, I like tanks and costumes, uniforms, Costors.

[231] I like pageantry.

[232] I like hats and helmets and accessories.

[233] Always have.

[234] I would go down to the Army surplus store and buy a lot of crap and bring them home.

[235] And I had a wardrobe full of webbing and helmets and things.

[236] And mum would say, what are you doing with all this?

[237] And I said, and I would dress up in this and go, look at me. And she'd go, what's it for?

[238] And I said, I'm an Army man. And then eventually she said, why don't you join?

[239] in the actual army so I did and you know and I enjoyed it because of the equipment and the fun yeah yeah but I learned to fire all this weaponry like rocket launches and you know it was a bit of fun absolutely just at targets you know I never thought of you know the bad stuff where you actually go and kill people yeah and I was a kid I was 17 you know and then 18 19 I got older and I chose to get older I chose I didn't and I'm still trying to, you know, go against it, which is why I've never grown up.

[240] But I think during my teenage years as a soldier, I realized, oh, it's not really the soldier I want to be.

[241] It's the actor playing the soldier, which of course, from the beginning when I was buying the stuff and just...

[242] You want to rescue people in the day in the costumes, and then you want to sleep in your own bed at it.

[243] Yeah.

[244] I want it to just be make -believe.

[245] And so when shit started to get real, like you guys are shipping out and getting paratrained.

[246] Actually, I'll go.

[247] got brought into the office, my lieutenant, he said to me, you know, there are other options for you.

[248] When we used to do a lot of marching, I had a lot of fun.

[249] One of my best friends in the army was Brenda Cunningham, and we used to have a good laugh.

[250] We always had a great sense of humour.

[251] And we used to march, you know, as you're marching along in a group, we would hold hands and would be in the middle marching along.

[252] hand and then and then one day the sergeant major said all right halt you two Derby Cunningham come here and we'd march over were you holding hands no no of course we weren't you were in the middle you're both holding hands you can't go off to war holding hands like that we won't do it when there's a war all right carry on so there was funny and I just used to, I had a great sense of humor, I still have, hopefully.

[253] And I see the lighter side of everything.

[254] And so for me, I guess I live in a bit of a dream world.

[255] So I didn't really realize what I was doing.

[256] And then eventually, like I said, this commander, he gave a pamphlet to me, which had the university on it and drama.

[257] And he said, you know, there's other options for you.

[258] And he said, why don't you go to university and study drama?

[259] And I said, well, I get the time off for that, will I?

[260] He goes, no, you could just leave.

[261] That reminds me of one of the times I was fired in high school.

[262] I worked at a shop that worked on cars, and it was my birthday on Friday, and my boss said, how is your birthday?

[263] Take Friday off.

[264] And I was like, oh, thank you.

[265] Yeah, I'll do that.

[266] And he goes, and then, you know, Monday, just give me a call.

[267] We'll see what's going on.

[268] I was like, what?

[269] No, Monday's on.

[270] My birthday's Friday.

[271] be long over by Monday.

[272] And then he's like, yeah, just let's just check in on Monday and we'll see where we're at.

[273] And then I called on Monday, he's like, you know, just keep staying home.

[274] He doesn't have it in them to say you're fired.

[275] The casual soft let go.

[276] Yeah, yeah.

[277] I got the same from the army, the soft let go, the casual.

[278] So I left.

[279] And then, you know, I think in university, I realized it was the actor playing it.

[280] And so I kind of, then I got into, well, I got straight into comedy was the first thing.

[281] I was in the university sketch team and then I had my own comedy duo with another guy called Grant and we would do sketch together in music and then from there progressed onto just wanting to do more and more and then went solo and then you know And how did you end up meeting the flight of the concords guys?

[282] So I met them in New Zealand they're from Wellington, I'm from Auckland Windy Wellington.

[283] Yeah so they're from the Windy Capital so I didn't see them much on the sort of burgeoning sort of comedy world that was happening, which was, you know, in New Zealand, it was fairly new around sort of 95, 96 when I started.

[284] So I wouldn't have met them sort of around about 2000.

[285] And that was only briefly as they were sort of formulating their ideas.

[286] And then we really sort of connected in Edinburgh during the fringe festival.

[287] And that would have been 2003.

[288] Uh -huh.

[289] Yeah.

[290] And then you started working together.

[291] And then flight of the concords for people in LA was a very inside, all comedians loved it.

[292] It was like a comedy for comedians.

[293] And so I assume that that opened up a bunch of different doors being on that show to you.

[294] Oh, it opened up everything.

[295] I mean, like I said to you, I never even dreamed that I'd get into America.

[296] I thought it was kind of like a big world that I wouldn't really get to sort of see.

[297] And here I am in the thick of it on an HBO show.

[298] We didn't even know that that's the big thing.

[299] And I just got this my first acting job.

[300] And in New York City, right?

[301] Yeah.

[302] In New York City.

[303] I'm in there.

[304] I'm just, you know, I'm young, good looking.

[305] I mean, the world was my oyster.

[306] You were like 6, 4 and 2 .30 back then, right?

[307] Yeah, absolutely.

[308] Beautiful looking guy.

[309] Just a gorgeous figure.

[310] So there I was with these guys and we created this thing together and I'm improvising.

[311] We're doing a lot of, you know, the band meetings for the most part.

[312] We're just trying to really make each other laugh and hold it together.

[313] which was so difficult but we had the greatest time and we did two seasons of that show they decided to end it because it was just too much for them they were creating this is Brett and Jermaine the Concords they were writing the whole thing they had other writers as well but they wrote all the music obviously and then every episode had two music videos in it they had to make it was just a colossal but you've seen it came out wonderful and it was a bit of it was a heavy workload but I guess the point is that thanks to that show and thanks to America, you know, accepting me into the realm, and then that show being a worldwide hit, that I bounced off and got other jobs after that.

[314] And you could tour then, right?

[315] So I went back to stand -up, because I'd been doing stand -up for like a decade before then, but I didn't do much in America.

[316] I just had to go back to the UK because, you know, it was actually earned money there.

[317] Yeah.

[318] But then eventually got the green card, and I got the green card after that show, and then we decided my wife and I, and I had one or two children, at that point.

[319] A couple of them maybe.

[320] We thought, let's make the move and it's come to Hollywood and let's see what you can really do.

[321] Yeah.

[322] Dabmeister.

[323] To me, that was one of my own quotes moniker.

[324] And having not had, or what age did dad depart immediately?

[325] My dad?

[326] Yeah.

[327] Well, yeah.

[328] I mean, he's always been around, but he sort of just, they separated after I was born and then they divorced a few years later but he's been around but he's kind of you know done his own thing and it's a difficult yeah so when you had your first kid and you didn't have presumably a great role model did you have anxiety about any of that did you think i got to be extra vigilant to do this right or no my i i have my wife rosy is such a strong person and she's really the dominant one Rosie O'Donnell, people don't know that you're married to her.

[329] Oh, now it's out.

[330] Sorry.

[331] No, no. She always takes the reins.

[332] I'm sort of in the background trying on costumes.

[333] So I found a really good dad costume and put it on.

[334] And so then, no, it was easy for me to, I just love play.

[335] So kids, for me, it's just naturally, I just play with them like we're best buddies.

[336] So I just play toys with them and create stories and do all funny voices.

[337] and I'm still doing it with my nine -year -old.

[338] I still go every night, I jump into bed with him and still read to him, even though he's quite capable of reading his house.

[339] Oh, thank you.

[340] That's awesome.

[341] We had a really cool guest on John Gottman, who is the Gottman Institute, and he's a clinical psychologist, and we kind of got on the topic of kids, and he said, you know that the real role that men can play as fathers is that dads play.

[342] Dad's like to play.

[343] like to wrestle and it's such a critical part of growing up you know you watch chimps like just the wrestling and the contact and the physicality all that stuff is so vital to these bonds and everything and I know that nightly I wrestle with my daughters and it's it's this is the highlight of my day and they're fucking tough you know they they hurt me regularly yeah and you have three boys two two yeah I have a question for you both oh Since you guys both had dads that left, do you actively make it a point to parent in opposition to them?

[344] Whoa, stumpy.

[345] Ah!

[346] How do you mean?

[347] Like, make sure that I don't leave.

[348] I leave all that.

[349] That's true.

[350] Well, you're not there now, so good job.

[351] Okay, another day.

[352] I look at my calendar.

[353] Don't leave.

[354] I was going to leave again.

[355] Dad would have left.

[356] I won't do that.

[357] no no I mean I imagine that's a great question well just because I assume that has led to a somewhat difficult relationship but maybe that's not true Darby's refusing to acknowledge that his childhood had anything to do with his current life on planet earth but I will not deny that I am the results of that childhood but for me I'll say this for 32 years I was resentful at my dad and I thought I was the victim of his kind of negligence and then within the first year of having my daughter I realized oh my God he was the victim to miss out on this would be so much more painful than to miss out on having a dad and probably by the age she was too I was like well I already spent more time with her than I was you know that my dad spent time with me in 18 years so we're already in the black now so that's good so for me it was it was kind of hugely impactful, also hugely healing and cathartic to go like, just to realize that, that, oh, no, the saddest thing was that he didn't get to have this thing I have.

[358] I just get so much out of the experience.

[359] It is the foundation for my self -esteem.

[360] It's the thing that makes me feel very best about myself.

[361] I'd much rather be a mediocre actor and a great dad than the reverse, you know?

[362] Yeah, here's to that.

[363] Well, for me, I think dad, you know, there's other siblings.

[364] And so, like I said, there was this family of the mum, dad, and the four kids.

[365] And then they, each of my siblings has three kids as well.

[366] So he's got lots of grandchildren.

[367] And then there was like this gap.

[368] And so I felt like he's already experienced all of the children.

[369] And he didn't, you know, he's like, I don't know.

[370] And so I had nothing special to offer like, I've got two kids, dad.

[371] Yeah.

[372] I've seen kids, mate.

[373] So as you've been raising these kids, what have been some of the more, like, perplexing, the more challenging moments where you're like, oh, I got to really think this through.

[374] Like, the next step is probably crucial.

[375] It feels important and I need to really know that this is a defensible action I'm about to take.

[376] Does it just, they pop up all the time for you, or?

[377] Moments in their life.

[378] Well, you know, they're both different, and I think.

[379] You know, that's the old adage that no two are the same and you think you've got one sussed.

[380] And the first one was pretty easy, remains a pretty easy child.

[381] The second one definitely more difficult.

[382] His brain works very differently.

[383] And he's definitely more challenging, but in the same time, it's way more rewarding some of the stuff that he comes up with.

[384] And when we meet those challenges head on, he comes through.

[385] and he's so intensely loving.

[386] So, and once again, I, you know, I'd love to say that I get amongst it and nail everything, but I have to give credit to my wife, Rosie.

[387] Oh, Darno.

[388] Who really...

[389] Stop putting that out there because if someone...

[390] Someone's going to believe it.

[391] But you know what?

[392] I am so much comedy that there's very...

[393] little seriousness about me and that's difficult as a father to imagine you know like go to your room you know I mean see people are already laughing and it's kind of like it's hard to be that dominant force with the second one in particular you know with some of the difficult situations where he wouldn't do he's very stubborn he's very stubborn won't do certain things and so we had to manipulate our ways of how we make him do it and so it's such a difficult learning curve And for the first seven years, it's just been knocking heads, the wife and I, about how are we going to get him to do this or not do that when we, you know, we can't lock him in a room or we can't, you know, he just refuses to, he's so headstrong.

[394] And I blame you, Rosie, because that's what you're like.

[395] You're so brilliant, you know, and he's not all floppy like me. As parents, we have to change because we can't be ourselves 100%.

[396] because we fall into that trap often with the first one and we're like, yeah, we've got to sussed and it's easy or whatever.

[397] And then the second one comes along on none of those tricks work of just being yourself, you have to completely change and realize that these little people are humans as well and they've got complex brains and they are going to do things their way and they are not you.

[398] And so your methods of how you are are not going to work.

[399] And so you've got to adjust and you've got to drop your own stubborn ideas.

[400] And they're really adapting, which I'm going back to the army now, because it was like adapt and overcome, it's one of the slogans.

[401] Right.

[402] I think it goes with not having a very big budget in the New Zealand Army, so you've got to adapt.

[403] We couldn't afford ammunition for our guns.

[404] So we used to make noises.

[405] And I was good at it, so I'd come out of the trees going, you know, and people would go, oh, shit, he's got to something, powerful there, run!

[406] And I'd go, oh, you know, anti -aircraft, you know, and often I'd yell out, anti -aircraft, you know, and oh, shit, he's got anti -aircraft.

[407] So it's just adapting, and then one day, you know, a guy parachuted in and saw me doing all the noises, and I was busted, but up until that point, but that is the most wonderful, and, you know, that's with parenting, is that we have to change and adapt, and you find out about yourself, the things that don't actually work because you think oh we're all you know this is who I am and I'm pretty brilliant and uh you know I've got it sussed and then hang on I'm I'm not I'm an idiot or I'm really mean where I you know and you know your partner normally will tell you that too yeah you can't do like that yeah and so there's definitely like back and forth and I'm watching Rosie do something with them and I'm thinking that's not going to work now you've you've you've screwed that up you know and what would you have done you know I'll go and do my version I'll come back on shit that didn't work did it Oh we've had Yeah we've had the conversation I was like fine hon You do it your way Four weeks I give you four weeks To get them to stay in bed all night And then it's my turn And then on that day I'm like All right let's get into it Yeah yeah Didn't yield any better results You know That's good though Now you've written a book Yes Could you tell us the name of it So this is my first children's book It's called the top secret undercover notes of Buttons McGinty and basically my idea was I was a reluctant reader as a kid a lot of boys struggle to read they're not interested they're out well boys are dumb just in general right they're dumb they like physical stuff you know and dressing up and whatever well hold on okay but I you know graphic novels I quite like to as a car it's got pictures you know I can go with that some action there, a few costumes.

[408] You love your costumes.

[409] You know, but then, so I wanted to write a predominantly, though, funny.

[410] I had to, for me, had to be funny.

[411] I thought, so what will my boy, the younger one?

[412] The older one, Finn, he's 13 now, never had any problems with reading.

[413] He read all the Harry Potter's when he was like eight, you know, the whole thing.

[414] And so the second one, though, you know, he's less interested.

[415] in the reading, but super smart.

[416] So, so I got asked by Scholastic to write some books.

[417] There's a lot of comedians are writing children's books.

[418] There's David Williams, you might have heard of him from the UK, who does a great number of fantastic, funny books.

[419] I wanted to have a point of difference.

[420] And so for me, I wanted to, A, handwrite the entire book myself, and B, I wanted the book to be kind of like an Indiana Jones journal.

[421] So it wasn't just a linear story.

[422] to, you know, then he said that and went down there and she said this.

[423] It was mainly a collection of notes.

[424] You might, if you found this.

[425] Like first person, diary entry.

[426] Yeah, like a diary.

[427] But, so this is the boy, Buttons McGinty, 12 years old, goes on this crazy wild adventure because his parents have both presumed missing.

[428] Okay, but not presumed past.

[429] We'll see in the sequel.

[430] You'll see.

[431] Okay.

[432] That recipe seems to work for Disney.

[433] Boy, they like to kill those parents right out of the game.

[434] Oh, yeah.

[435] and make it through the title sequence without losing a parent or two.

[436] They're gone now, so you're on your own and enjoy.

[437] It's the start of every great Disney film.

[438] Yeah.

[439] So anyway, he's sent to the school.

[440] It's kind of like a prison school like Alcatraz.

[441] It's on an island.

[442] Okay.

[443] And the middle of nowhere, like between New Zealand and Antarctica.

[444] So even more isolated than, you know, where he was from, where he's from New Zealand, because it's essentially me. And so basically my idea was that it would be a book of his notes that he comes up with while he's figuring out this plot of what's happened to his parents and so it's also full of drawings and I did all the drawings myself and there's a lot of Morse code in there.

[445] Good, good.

[446] Because I'm the last of the Morse Coders and I really want to bring back Morse Coders that's such a cool code.

[447] Do you have any fantasies that there'll be some kind of apocalyptic event and that they will need a Morse Coder?

[448] Like we need to find a Morse Coder?

[449] coder.

[450] You do have that fantasy.

[451] I think so.

[452] I will now.

[453] You should.

[454] I'm going to have that tonight.

[455] And you'll be there.

[456] But you'll need to be rescued, you see.

[457] And you'll be in your dungarees.

[458] Uh -huh.

[459] And dangling somewhere.

[460] Yeah.

[461] Where's Reese?

[462] You know, and I'll hear that.

[463] Yeah.

[464] And I'll be...

[465] Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do...

[466] And did you, when you read, I presume you read, I presume you read this book out loud to your?

[467] I read that every night.

[468] Well, this is the one book.

[469] My son, Theo, the younger one, the one book that he was so excited about having read and then made me read it to him and then took it everywhere with him to school, to the restaurants where he's constantly reading it.

[470] Oh man. So I was really, really proud.

[471] Yeah.

[472] And now I'm just halfway through the second one because I know that he's waiting for the next book that he's interested in.

[473] Oh, that's right.

[474] Yeah.

[475] What's up, guys, it's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[476] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[477] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[478] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[479] And I don't mean just friends.

[480] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[481] The list goes on.

[482] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[483] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[484] I want to ask you one question before we go.

[485] about the fact that you have two boys, that proposition scares me. I'm often grateful that I have girls for numerous reasons, but one of them is the thing I learned about becoming a man, I don't think is worth passing on, or many of the things.

[486] A lot of them still are.

[487] But I think it's a really interesting time to have young boys and to think about what is masculinity, what is it to be a man. The world's a different place now.

[488] It is.

[489] Or it change you get into that better.

[490] place yeah yeah absolutely and i always struggle with this one i always think like man if i had a boy and there was a bully on the bus and man i would only know what to say to him what my dad told me like you punch him for you know like it would be so tempting to just perpetuate this thing we've kind of all been victims of and i just wonder especially sounds like your boys are at that age where it's like they're really starting to construct their identity and and what all these things mean and you know is that is that at all do you think about that stuff yeah i i teach them to hassle block with your witch darts so yeah you can easily hassle block with your witch darts is that masturbation or something what you want to get to do that on a bus yeah but yeah I mean humor can override anything and so if you're lucky enough to have wit and be good with it and if you're not practice it you know, because any hassles that come your way, you can block by just being, I guess, smart and really funny and make sure he's not alone.

[491] Because you say something witty that's going to bring that guy down, and then he sort of gets hurt and then realizes there's no one else around and then goes, bong.

[492] Yeah, not too many guys have been burned and been like, I've been bested.

[493] Congratulations.

[494] I was going to break your nose, but now.

[495] Yeah.

[496] So the other thing is have friends and also be really socially positive and have a good energy about you.

[497] And I mean, when I was at school, I was kind of like very much in with the geeks.

[498] And there were some cool kids that liked me because I was funny.

[499] But really, in my lunch times, you know, you're either going to sit with one group or the other.

[500] I was kind of like a social butterfly because I had so many different groups that I had to go and connect to to make sure that I was kind of like giving the laughter to everyone.

[501] Sure, sure.

[502] Yeah, and I didn't do that.

[503] Seeking approval from everyone like I do.

[504] I wasn't a seeking approval.

[505] I just enjoyed, you know, regaling my stories and showing my costumes.

[506] And so I think it's always a difficult one, but yeah, this is a very much a different world.

[507] And both my sons, particularly the older one who's now, who's 13, his friend group, there's girls and boys in there.

[508] and every other gender of a person.

[509] And so, you know, it blows me away and it makes me happy.

[510] They mix so much more these days than they did in our day.

[511] Right.

[512] You know, in the old days.

[513] There's this tremendous documentary that we recommend all the time to people called The Mask You Live in.

[514] Did I get that right, Monica?

[515] Yeah, you did.

[516] Have you seen this?

[517] Oh, I've heard of it.

[518] It's really tremendous, especially if you're raising boys.

[519] It was quite eye -opening to me. I realized I checked every box.

[520] of the cliche of what you're supposed to do as a man, you know?

[521] I don't think I would.

[522] No, not in the positive way.

[523] Not in a positive way.

[524] No, no. So the very base of it is we define boys here, at least, in this country.

[525] I don't know how it is elsewhere, in opposition to females.

[526] So if you're a coach of a young boy, the worst thing that that boy can be is playing like a girl, acting like a girl, crying like a girl.

[527] only thing worse than that on a playground is that you're gay this is like one thing even worse that you could be than female and this residual effect of defining boys in opposition to females is well if the worst thing you can be is female how on earth do you not start feeling superior how do you get to college and you achieved masculinity through being anti -feminine and then expect the boys to have some foundational respect for women or feel like they're equals.

[528] And in all these very simple ways, we're giving clues to these boys.

[529] And I just think, oh, wow, we're on the precipice of redefining what it is.

[530] And it's encouraging.

[531] And if I had a boy, I would really hope to have seen this thing.

[532] I really applaud the people who made it.

[533] And maybe you'll watch it if you're not reading your book too often to your kids.

[534] I will watch it.

[535] What are the costumes like?

[536] Well, mask is in the title.

[537] Oh, yeah, I like that.

[538] You know, like a masquerade ball.

[539] Oh, I like that.

[540] I've got a few of those masks.

[541] Pageantry, all that stuff.

[542] I love it.

[543] Yeah.

[544] Well, what are you in right now?

[545] What do you have, you have this book, which is fantastic.

[546] I've got a few of these with me. I want to sell these while I'm here.

[547] And I think you'll really love it.

[548] If you're a reluctant reader, boys or girls, basically for me I'm really proud of this and there's a sequel coming and you're selling them out of a trunk of a Toyota Camry in the park yeah right yeah it's a maroon cash only license plate seven -niner and I'll be there till 3 a .m. tonight and once that's done as I say I'll be on the run again basically the New Zealand army are just trying to track me down and I've been on the run for years so I've got to stop doing these big public appearances and getting in movies and stuff.

[549] But then Jumungi, I'm doing that.

[550] Oh, right.

[551] So that's Jumungi 3.

[552] A lot of people think, was, yeah.

[553] Yeah.

[554] The second one was so good.

[555] They've done making another one, so I'm involved in that.

[556] Well, Reese, I adore you.

[557] Thank you so much for coming and being a part of this.

[558] I too have a book.

[559] It's not really a book, but Hello Bello is a company that my wife and I just started that comes out Monday.

[560] And it's all plant -based products for babies, diapers, stuff wipes it's all good for the planet and it's uh crazy affordable because i have a chip on my shoulder about rich people so oh that's good so please see mr darby if you want to get a copy of his book and we thank you guys so much for letting us come and uh yeah do a little thank you for heaven of our show thank you follow armchair expert on the wondery app amazon music or wherever you get your podcast you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[561] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.

[562] We've all been there.

[563] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[564] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[565] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[566] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[567] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[568] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[569] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[570] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[571] Members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.