Emily Mortimer

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Emmy -nominated Monica Montsoon.

[3] Hello there.

[4] Hello.

[5] What a day.

[6] What a day.

[7] There's no air conditioning right now in the attic.

[8] Yeah, we're feeling the heat.

[9] Feeling the heat.

[10] Emily Mortimer.

[11] We just really were charmed by Emily, weren't we?

[12] Yeah.

[13] I mean, it's like so cliche to be charmed by like a cute, dainty English woman.

[14] Uh -huh.

[15] And we were.

[16] Yeah, it's irresistible.

[17] Yeah, we're powerless.

[18] Emily Mortimer is an English actress and screenwriter.

[19] She was in Mary Poppins Returns, Doll, and M, the Newsroom.

[20] That's where I fell in love with her.

[21] Shutter Island, Lars and the Real Girl matchpoint, and she has a new movie that has 100 % on Rotten Tomatoes.

[22] It's a horror movie, and it's called Relic.

[23] So check that out, but after you check out, Emily Mortimer.

[24] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert Early, and add free right now.

[25] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[26] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[27] He's an option to spend.

[28] He's an option's fun.

[29] Lovely.

[30] Now, Emily, nice to meet you.

[31] I'm Dax.

[32] This is Monica.

[33] Lovely to meet you guys in your resplendent pink.

[34] And you're not embroidered.

[35] Brooklyn.

[36] You're in London?

[37] I'm actually in Bath.

[38] And where is Bath?

[39] I hate to be ignorant, but I need to know.

[40] Where is Bath?

[41] Okay, so Bath is in the west country of England.

[42] It's nearly on the way to like Somerset and then you would sort of come up and go west on your way down to like Cornwall and Devon.

[43] And I'm in this estate, Badminton Estate, which is just hundreds of acres on this beautiful property and I'm staying in this house that was built in 1704 and I'm getting ready to maybe maybe shoot this TV show that I wrote but but who knows what's going to happen.

[44] It's sort of just I'm playing it by ear.

[45] So you're there now just in preparation of the maybe starting again?

[46] Yes.

[47] I was in New York about a week ago and then I got the call.

[48] I was about to start shooting a show that I had written and was to direct when the world shut down and so I was about three weeks out in prep.

[49] Yeah.

[50] And so I flew home to be with my family in America and then I got the cool saying, come back about a week ago.

[51] So here I am in Bath.

[52] I normally would be in New York City with my husband and my two kids.

[53] And you live in Brooklyn normally, yeah?

[54] Yes.

[55] Now, obviously Corona was much, much worse for so many people than us.

[56] But with that said, I got to imagine, because I was in the middle of production too, but I hadn't written it.

[57] I I hadn't gone through note sessions.

[58] I hadn't pitched a studio.

[59] Like, the amount of work that would land you on the set shooting something you created is immense, right?

[60] And it all takes place beforehand.

[61] So I have to imagine it was particularly brutal to have the plug pulled initially.

[62] It was kind of brutal, but I don't know about you, but I feel like as an actor, you're kind of a bottom feeder anyway.

[63] Like, you're just used to life being kind of sort of like things just going wrong and you know the best laid plans of mice and men just sort of fucking up all the time like you just think you're going to be doing one thing and then that doesn't happen or you'll think you're not going to be doing anything and and you've planned some holiday that you're once in a lifetime trip with your family somewhere perfect and then the call comes and you have to just upsticks and go off to sort of bum fuck somewhere and shoot a movie and as an actor anyway I am just used to life never knowing what's going to to happen next and that being both wonderful and awful.

[64] Yeah, it was really a bummer.

[65] It was really a bummer.

[66] And then you started realizing, wow, this is one instance where you really can't sort of take it too personally or feel too sorry for yourself because the whole world is going through a major bummer of a situation.

[67] And once that realization sunk in, I started to really enjoy it, actually.

[68] I felt like this kind of reprieve.

[69] It got scarier.

[70] again for me when it started getting back to sort of like the half life that we're in now where it's like am I meant to be in the world is this weird that I'm here and how is this going to work exactly and but the time that I was in sort of full lockdown I really enjoyed that part of the performer's life of the never quite knowing what's going to happen next was gone it was like you know what's going to happen for the next like at least few months you're stuck It was an amazing feeling.

[71] That slight buzz in your ear that you're aware of of, yeah, what is brewing?

[72] Something's brewing and I don't know what it is, but it's about to change everything.

[73] That was gone and I was able to just be kind of chilled.

[74] And also I realized in lockdown that I have real social anxiety that I don't think I knew until all social life was taken away.

[75] The odd occasion that we would go and have a few drinks and things just for, very socially distanced with our neighbors in a place where you couldn't be in close confinement, I would come home feeling really sort of like, oh, God, that was embarrassing.

[76] I made stupid jokes and I made a fool of myself, which is what I realized what I think all the time through my life.

[77] Like, that's what I think every second of every day, I'm thinking I made stupid jokes, I made a fool of myself.

[78] But in lockdown, I was able to realize that when you take away the people to make the stupid jokes to, And then it's kind of great.

[79] Well, yeah, it's all misleading, right?

[80] Because there's like a sweet spot.

[81] For us, there was a sweet spot where it's like, oh, my God, I'm getting so much time with my kids that I wouldn't normally get.

[82] And, oh, this is quite lovely.

[83] And oh, my God, I'm relaxed and I'm sleeping better, blah, blah, blah.

[84] And then all of a sudden I had this panic of like, wow, life's just blowing by and nothing's happening.

[85] And do I need productivity to have any sense of purpose and self -worth and all this stuff?

[86] So, yeah, it's been a great time to, uh, really get in a hamster wheel and just spin around a lot.

[87] I know.

[88] I mean, there's loads of existential moments.

[89] I'm painting a very rosy picture of it that is completely sort of not right, obviously.

[90] But I think that there's this moment now that I'm experiencing, which is full of a new kind of sort of terror of like, is this thing really going to start up again and are we all going to be okay?

[91] And so I've got rose -tinted spectacles.

[92] But I do remember the existential sort of waves of like, I can't wait for it to all get back to normal.

[93] but then you're thinking, what is it that I'm really missing?

[94] Like, I couldn't even put my finger on what it was I wanted to happen, like what I wanted to be different.

[95] I think I wanted the freedom to do whatever I wanted and then choose to be doing what I was doing, quarantining.

[96] I think it was just a theoretical notion that I had no say in the situation was discomforting.

[97] Yeah, yeah.

[98] It's been a real ride, man. It really is.

[99] Now, when you go back to England, I wonder, Like, for me, I'm from Detroit, right?

[100] And Detroit's drastically different from Los Angeles.

[101] And then my first, I don't know, five years in L .A. I hated L .A. and I wanted to be home.

[102] And then something weird happened where I was home and I was like, oh, I miss L .A. And I very much love my home.

[103] But when I'm in my home, I realize I have drank the Kool -Aid of Los Angeles.

[104] And then compounded right when you reenter your family orbit.

[105] You're like, oh, right, I play this role in my family.

[106] I don't play it in my adult life, but I have this role in my family and now I've got to play it again because it's Christmas.

[107] I wonder when you go back home and I got to imagine it's more intense for you because we sound different, right?

[108] So it's like you're reminded very viscerally that, oh, you're back home.

[109] When you go back home, do you feel like you have to swing back into who you were when you were younger or no?

[110] Definitely.

[111] I think that's just true for, yes, for everyone, as you say, you kind of regress to who you were when you were like 12.

[112] I love the feeling of coming back to England after America because basically you come into people's kitchens normally if there's no COVID and somebody offers you a gin and tonic and a cigarette and you're like, you know, you're home, you know what I mean?

[113] But that didn't happen this time, but I did go and see my mom who actually is the last of the great chain smokers.

[114] My mother smokes, I should think, definitely 30 cigarettes a day at least.

[115] Oh, good, good.

[116] And she starts at 8 in the morning.

[117] until 10 o 'clock at night.

[118] And someone has told her on reliable, you know, assurance that they've proved that smoking is a very good protection against coronavirus.

[119] Well, that ironically is true, it appears.

[120] And people also on nicotine supplements.

[121] So I do the lozenges and stuff.

[122] And apparently I'm safeguarded in some way as well.

[123] I know.

[124] She told me that giving a COVID patient's nicotine patches in France, which is so French.

[125] I'm so French.

[126] My mom.

[127] is, yeah, she's just determined smoker.

[128] She smokes when she plays tennis, my mom.

[129] Oh, it's an art form for her.

[130] She's taking it to the next level, yeah.

[131] My husband was playing tennis with her in Italy one time on our summer holiday, and he was serving and he smelt smoke.

[132] And he was like, how could that be smoking?

[133] We're in the middle of the most beautiful countryside in the middle of nowhere, and he looked over, and there was my mom, like, in ready position with the lit cigarette.

[134] Will you ask her to please smoke in the swimming pool?

[135] summer just to really go for like just take some laps while smoking totally that's a great i think i remember smoking in the shower when i was hung over i got to admit in my usual days when i was an addict yeah i remember smoking in the shower for sure then you just lean over and throw it in the toilet when you were done that's pretty cool that needs to be in a movie someone smoking in a shower i've never seen that before or thoughts of that before no yes and my mom when i got home about a week ago and I'd sort of, you know, you feel like you risk life and limb getting on the airplane and I had my N95 mask and all my sort of gloves and wipes and everything and I managed to get through.

[136] And I did go and stay with my mum.

[137] We were trying to social distance, although she is so convinced that she's protected from COVID virus because of her chain smoking that she was like, it doesn't matter, come here.

[138] But anyway, there was a culture clash and also a feeling of being a child again because I'm promoting this movie that's coming out.

[139] So I, I, I, I I did one other of these interviews on the Zoom.

[140] And so I was being interviewed, and my mom, you know, came into the kitchen in her night.

[141] It was about 11 o 'clock at night because it was in L .A., and I was, you know, so I had to wait up for this thing.

[142] And I was trying to do this interview, and the girl was very earnest and very sort of sweet and asking me very intense questions about my craft and everything.

[143] And my mom walked into the kitchen.

[144] She went, you're talking incredibly.

[145] loudly what's going on and I was like I'm I said mom I'm trying to do an interview really what you mean an interview anyway she started lighting up and the smoke was billowing onto the screen and I was finally I was like mom can you stop smoking and she said all right I'll go over there so she went and stood at the other end of the kitchen and literally it was like something out of the shining or something it was this my mother in a nighty but smoking but not looking at me looking down at the floor listening to me for like she stood there for 30 minutes while I finished this I've never been more self -conscious in my life the lady interviewer me was like so tell me about that special spark inside you that um you know what is it what is your motivation Emily for you and I was having to talk about all this and but I don't even know what I was saying because all I was thinking about this woman in the 90 that was just judging me and hating me at the other end of the Most parents, right, your mom's probably like, oh, my God, this is so adorable.

[146] Look how serious they're taking my child.

[147] Look how serious my child's taking herself.

[148] It could elicit some fraudulence, I feel like.

[149] If my mom was staring at me, I'd be like, Mom, I do this thing.

[150] I've become this thing, and I know it's preposterous, but here we are.

[151] Now, I need to do it without you staring at me. Exactly.

[152] Exactly.

[153] Well, anyway, I got off the thing and she went, well, no, I mean, it's amazing, isn't it?

[154] And I thought, maybe she's going to say it's amazing.

[155] how wonderful you are and how far you've come and you're.

[156] It's amazing that people are interested in that sort of stuff.

[157] Right, right, right.

[158] I knew that's where it was going to go, yeah.

[159] Yeah, can you believe you've duped the world into being interested in you and your process?

[160] What is this world coming to?

[161] But I did sort of know what she meant, I have to say.

[162] Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[163] Now, you grew up in London, and I don't know if Wikipedia's wrong, but did your dad marry two Penelope's?

[164] Yes.

[165] My mom is Penelope the second, and his first wife was Penelope the first.

[166] Now, is Penelope a more popular name in England?

[167] Because the odds of you wrangling two Penelope's here in the States, it'd be very hard for your dad to find those two.

[168] Yeah, good point.

[169] No, I don't know any other Penelope's either in England or America.

[170] A friend of mine once invented a Penelope.

[171] She invented a friend called Penelope while she was courting this guy and being caught by this guy who she then made.

[172] married, but she was invented a friend called Penelope so that she could seem more interesting.

[173] She kept sort of standing him up every three dates because she was going off with her friend Penelope because she didn't want it to be a guy because she didn't want to make him actually jealous, but she wanted to make herself seem more sort of mysterious.

[174] So she invented a friend called Penelope, but I don't really know any other Penelope's than my mom and my dad's first wife.

[175] Well, in Fleabag, I think there's a Penelope and that is English.

[176] Oh, that's true.

[177] There's something serendipitous going on.

[178] Now, your dad was, and again, forgive my ignorance, but your father was a sir, or is a sir, presumably, and he was a barrister?

[179] What is a barrister?

[180] Okay, so I'm loving this.

[181] This is so fun being asked these questions about sirs and barristers therapy.

[182] I don't give a shit about this special light in you or your process.

[183] That'll not be coming.

[184] I don't care.

[185] I'll redo your voodoo.

[186] That's up to you.

[187] Just keep being good.

[188] I don't need to know how the sausage.

[189] just made.

[190] I wish my mom was, this was the podcast she was listening to as she stood in her 90.

[191] Oh, I would have got you out of here and had her sit down for sure.

[192] Totally, totally.

[193] No, anyway, so Barrister is a lawyer.

[194] My dad was a writer first and foremost, but his father had been a lawyer and my dad always wanted to be a writer, but his dad said, you know, you've got to get something to fall back on.

[195] You've got to get a sort of proper job when the writing sort of dries up or whatever.

[196] So he trained to be a lawyer and he became a criminal defense barrister, they call it, in England.

[197] And so he only ever defended, he defended a lot of murders, he defended a lot of pornography, he defended a lot of every kind of body.

[198] He did quite a lot of seminal, important cases, especially in like the free speech kind of arena.

[199] He defended the sex pistols for never mind the bullocks.

[200] No way.

[201] You didn't meet Sid Vicious or John Leiden or anything, did you?

[202] No, I was about four.

[203] That's a perfect age for you to be turned over to John Leiden.

[204] That's a great time.

[205] Yeah, yeah.

[206] Sid Vicious and the gang.

[207] He hardly met them.

[208] I think he told them that if he was going to fight the case, they had to go as far away as possible from the courtroom and not really show their faces.

[209] They wouldn't stand a hope.

[210] But he got them off.

[211] His defense was brilliant because instead of doing some big speech about free speech, which should have probably irritated the judge, he got them off.

[212] It was the album that was being prosecuted on the obscene publication.

[213] the use of the word bollocks.

[214] I mean, it's unbelievable now to think of it.

[215] And it was 1976.

[216] It wasn't like the 30s or something.

[217] And the bollocks, which is the English word for balls, you know.

[218] So they were prosecuted for the use of the word bollocks.

[219] But my dad got a church of England vicar, clergyman, who was an etymologist to come and say that bollocks was the rigging on a 17th century man of warship and that it wasn't anything to do with anything that was obscene at all.

[220] And the judge was like, oh yes, quite right.

[221] It's absolutely cool.

[222] Yeah, that's what I thought, too.

[223] Exactly.

[224] So my dad, that's what he did kind of on the side in his mind, although I think he did a lot of really cool things with it.

[225] But then his main job was a writer, and he wrote plays and novels and television dramas.

[226] He was knighted, which happens like sort of Judy Dench becomes Dame Judy Dench.

[227] It's like a thing that happens.

[228] The queen gives you a title that you're being honored for your contribution to the arts.

[229] So he became a sir as a result of that.

[230] How serious is it?

[231] Is there anything here, stateside, you can relate to it?

[232] Like, did he take great pride in being sir?

[233] Sir John, I think he did take great pride in it because, well, we, of course, was so proud of it.

[234] I mean, I was so proud of him.

[235] He died about 10 years ago, my dad, but I loved him so fiercely, and he was a huge influence on me in every way and everything.

[236] But he was a big, like, socialist, supposedly, and very left -wing and very kind of anti -establish.

[237] And so for him to kind of be as delighted as he was by being made a sub, it was a bit confusing.

[238] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[239] It was all good.

[240] I mean, he deserved it.

[241] It's an interesting transition in life when you recognize you're the establishment.

[242] My mom said something funny that you reminded me of when I was complaining to her.

[243] I was like, Mom, I've become the establishment.

[244] I'm so depressed.

[245] I'm the establishment.

[246] And she says, well, imagine what it's like to be the mother of the fucking establishment.

[247] Oh my gosh.

[248] Your mom sounds awesome.

[249] Yeah, you would love my mom.

[250] You would love my mom.

[251] Could you find out her policy on dating married men?

[252] Oh, you're sheepy down.

[253] Okay, good.

[254] So you went to Oxford and you were doing plays, but you were also pursuing writing.

[255] Had you in your mind declared what path you were more interested in, or were the equal?

[256] I don't know.

[257] I wasn't think I was going to be a writer or an actor.

[258] I was feeling like I needed to go and do something kind of worthwhile with my life.

[259] I had studied Russian at university and I wanted to go to Russia and I didn't know quite what I wanted to do but I thought it was going to sort of work for the UN or something I don't know.

[260] I thought I would basically do something to justify the money that my parents had spent on my very expensive education.

[261] Yeah.

[262] But I always just did act.

[263] I did always write too from when I was a really little girl I did.

[264] And I think it was part of that thing of being very shy to go back to the social anxiety thing.

[265] So I always kind of would be, as a child, very frightened of any kind of social situation and my mum would have to force me to go out to parties and things like that when I was little.

[266] But I would stay at home and sort of act out things on the stairs to my parents.

[267] I'd act out anything.

[268] I'd like perform like a personal automatic, you know, washing powder advert or a cookery program or then sometimes I'd write a play or something like that.

[269] So I had a very active imagination that would take.

[270] the place of the kind of real life that I was too scared to sort of deal with.

[271] And so it was acting and writing and all that kind of stuff was always something that was a great escape for me. But I never really necessarily thought that was what I was going to end up doing.

[272] I thought I was going to do something, as I said, sort of, in inverted commas, worthwhile.

[273] And I was kind of feeling like I needed to be sort of serious and that those kind of things weren't serious enough or something like that.

[274] Do you still speak Russian?

[275] Duh.

[276] Ah.

[277] Yeah, I I'm going to Oh, wow More more, more Couple more, couple more Couple more, couple more Tell us what you think of our matching pink sweatshirts Oh, very Very beautiful and invalricative Oh, my God You know, no matter what you say in Russian It sounds like you're going to kill us Do you agree?

[278] Like I felt very scared Yeah, it's very ominous It's an omit Maybe it's because that's the only representation we've ever seen in the States of Russians is they're all evil?

[279] But I was like, this motherfucker's going to kill us over these pink sweaters.

[280] Did you watch the Americans and go, why the hell am I not on this show?

[281] Did you watch the Americans?

[282] No, no, because I don't watch any television.

[283] I really am so bad and lame.

[284] I've got real sort of failing in that department.

[285] But I did know that it was about that and think why the hell didn't they put me in there.

[286] Well, it's truly a fantastic show.

[287] Everyone says it's incredible.

[288] I know.

[289] I really feel that's a big gap in my knowledge and experience of life.

[290] Okay, so despite wanting to be an ambassador to Russia, you did find yourself with pretty steady employment, first in television in England.

[291] And then you ended up being in something that your father wrote, yeah?

[292] Yeah, that was sort of right off the bat.

[293] I got a job from complete nepotism, paying a teenager in a TV show that he had written.

[294] it was a really stressful experience because I was desperately trying to pretend that I hadn't got the job that way.

[295] Sure.

[296] And there were all these kind of really like, you know, knowing, sort of jaded, like stage school kids who were my friends, you know, my school friends in the thing.

[297] And they were onto me immediately.

[298] They were like, they were testing me by asking questions about like, did I know what my equity rights were on, like, if you got rained on?

[299] If you, you know, I don't know, your meal breaks and all that.

[300] And I just didn't know any of it.

[301] I had managed to sort of vaguely pull the wool over their eyes and then my dad, of course, arrived on the set and I hid from him.

[302] And then he did see me, but he sort of managed to sort of stay quiet.

[303] And then it came to him leaving and he waved at me and yelled from the other side of the room, by Emmy, darling, we're all so proud of you.

[304] And I was like, oh, my God.

[305] Oh, no. That wasn't that fun.

[306] I guess it didn't stop me. I didn't stop me. I was always doing it somehow.

[307] Are you an only child?

[308] I was an only child until I was about 12.

[309] And then my sister, Rosie, was born, who's my full sister.

[310] But, yeah, we're the only two.

[311] We're so close.

[312] It's such a nice relationship, but she's 12 years younger than me. Monica similarly has an eight -year gap with her little brother.

[313] Yeah.

[314] Do you guys get along?

[315] I wouldn't say get along is the right phrase.

[316] We just never grew up in the same world.

[317] We basically grew up totally separately.

[318] And now as adults, we have a new relationship as adults.

[319] I got to say, if you're going to have a gap like that, it's best to go all the way to the 12 because you probably felt in ways like you had a baby, right?

[320] Where Monica had eight just felt annoyed.

[321] Like, it's kind of the perfect gap if you're going to go beyond five years.

[322] My son and my daughter are six years.

[323] And he feels like just really like his life just got.

[324] so brutally worse, but she arrived.

[325] And he's not really ever corrected that opinion.

[326] But, yeah, because you're old enough to remember the difference between what life was like when you were the only one.

[327] But by the time my sister was born, yeah, I was just like a little bait.

[328] It's like a little dolly or something that I was helping to bring up.

[329] And I always just adored her and felt really protective of her.

[330] And then now, it's so funny how the age gap just sort of started.

[331] not meaning anything as you get older.

[332] And, I mean, it's still really annoying that she's 12 years younger than me. Right now, especially as I'm really starting to just feel gould about how, like, how few wrinkles she has and how good her sort of figure is and things.

[333] But she had a baby the same time I had my second baby.

[334] So her first kid is the same age as my second kid and their best, best friends.

[335] And that was really such a sweet thing.

[336] Yes.

[337] So we're really good friends.

[338] But you're right.

[339] When she's 80 and you're 92, you're both will just be old as fuck.

[340] Like it...

[341] I know.

[342] You won't be old ladies.

[343] But right now it's kind of not that great.

[344] She's 36.

[345] She's just turned 36.

[346] And she's looked just so gorgeous and sort of in her prime.

[347] And I'm 12 years old.

[348] I'm 12 years old and 36, which I'm not going to tell you.

[349] The math's answered to that.

[350] But it's not nice.

[351] Okay.

[352] Now, once you started acting, did you have dreams of acting in the States?

[353] Is that something that is like an inevitable North star?

[354] Did you not care?

[355] Like I guess what I'm asking was when you got the ghost in the darkness where you're like, oh, here we come.

[356] I'm in an American movie.

[357] I mean, maybe a bit, yes.

[358] But not here we come because I never felt like, I don't think I had a plan, honestly.

[359] I just was sort of going along like from one thing to the next.

[360] I think I felt like at some point I'm going to give this up and do something serious.

[361] I go to Russia.

[362] I just went along with it.

[363] Yeah, it definitely felt like that.

[364] That one felt like a big old number, and it was like sort of Val Kilmer and Michael Douglas in the, you know, I was going to say the Outback, but that's not what it was.

[365] It was Africa.

[366] And it was like huge in numbers of extras and huge sets and, you know, 25 costume fittings and incredible, everything.

[367] I remember that experience very intensely because I guess it was my first experience of it, like a huge, huge movie.

[368] It was only like my third or fourth job or something.

[369] I mean, the first take I did, I was Val Kilmer.

[370] his wife.

[371] The story revolved around a lot of man -eating lions in Africa.

[372] It sure does.

[373] Have you seen it?

[374] Oh, God, yeah.

[375] Yeah, yeah.

[376] I was a Val Kilmer disciple when I was younger.

[377] I saw it no matter what he did, I saw it.

[378] Were you smitten with Val?

[379] Because he was powerful in his heyday, right?

[380] Yeah, he was really powerful.

[381] I mean, I was playing his wife, but we had one scene together, and I only had like three scenes in the movie, and one of them I get eaten by a lion.

[382] Yeah.

[383] Oh.

[384] And the scene with him was right at the beginning, and, you know, I just sort of met him to say hi and do the scene with and then that was it i didn't really see him again after that but it was kind of intimidating and i did think he was brilliant i mean he's a genius actor but i remember that first scene that was my first moment on a big big studio movie and i'd come all the way to africa to meet my husband and in the time that i'd been we'd been apart i'd had his baby so i was bringing his baby to him and it was this great big romantic scene on this huge railway platform in the middle of Africa and everything and I finished my first take and I sort of was all the sort of a jitter and the director came over and said um you know that was amazing it was so good you know well done emily um you have a slightly sleepy left eye so could you could you open it a bit and I was like oh my god yeah of course course course totally no problem yeah of course so he went off And I was like, oh, wait, as he was walking away, I was thinking, fuck, how do you open?

[385] The whole point is it's a slightly sleepy left eye.

[386] I don't know how to do what he's just, oh.

[387] So I was like, I can't open it.

[388] And then I thought, maybe if I close the other one a little bit.

[389] There we go.

[390] There we go.

[391] So my first big close -up with Val Kilmer in this Hollywood movie was me like, trying to get my eyes the same size.

[392] But the nicest thing that anyone has ever said to me still, to this day, came as a result of doing that movie which was so amazing because I got eaten by the lion it was all this big thing and then it came out and then I went back to my normal life and I was in Dublin I was late I had flown to Dublin from London to do an audition for a film and the man that picked me up from the station I had to tell him I'm late the playing game I'm late for my audition please can you go as quickly as you can and then of course he got fascinated by the fact that I was an actress and I was late for an audition and he asked me what he would have seen me in and I said nothing I haven't been in anything I said I've been in one film and he said well what was that and I said well it was with Val Kilmer actually in Africa and he said well what happened to you in it and I said well I got eaten by a lion and he thought for a second and he went some lions get all the luck oh my god that's the best thing anyone's ever said to me and it's still the best thing like 20 years later it's still the best thing anyone's ever said that's pretty clutch did you have a cocktail with them after the audition?

[393] I feel like this guy had some rhythm, some game.

[394] Well, all Irish people are like that.

[395] So you have to be careful in Dublin because you could fall in love with everyone.

[396] Yeah, yeah.

[397] The same guy on the same trip said he was trying to get me to the audition and we went the wrong way down a one -way street and there was a car coming the right way and he was like beeping his horn.

[398] And the driver leans out going, it's a fucking one -way street.

[399] And my taxi driver leant back and went, I'm only going the one -way.

[400] Oh, wow.

[401] This is a charming guy in the planet.

[402] Totally.

[403] I know.

[404] I should look him up.

[405] I wonder if he's still alive.

[406] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[407] What's up, guys?

[408] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[409] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[410] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[411] Okay?

[412] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[413] And I don't mean just friends, I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[414] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[415] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[416] We've all been there.

[417] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[418] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[419] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms, symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery, like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[420] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[421] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[422] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[423] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[424] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[425] Okay, so I want to zoom to my favorite thing and the way I really came to fall in love with you was the Newsroom, which my wife and I were deeply addicted to.

[426] Such a fantastic show, and you were so, so great in it.

[427] My goodness.

[428] Monica Love newsroom as well.

[429] Love.

[430] Thank you.

[431] That's very daunting to me. I watch it both as like spectacle of my acting fear.

[432] to have to say that many words coherently seems impossible.

[433] The Aaron Sorkin kind of musical dialogue scares me to death.

[434] Was it impossible then got easy?

[435] Did it never get easy?

[436] Was it always easy?

[437] I guess it got easier, but it was always really scary.

[438] And I think that in a way was maybe was part of what was great about watching it, if it was so, was that there was a kind of an adrenaline that was just, it was like giving a live performance often, because it was like doing theatre or something.

[439] I can't explain it.

[440] It was just like you would have to sort of pronounce these monologues and you didn't have many goes because it was television and we were doing sort of an episode in just over a week and you had to have really learned it and you had to be able to rattle it off.

[441] You had to know it like the back of your hand long before you were standing on the set because you only had two or three goes and it was just like pages and pages and pages of words.

[442] And it's a whole new language with him.

[443] I mean, it's brilliant, but it's kind of slightly stylized.

[444] It's like a whole, he's like he's writing in a different language almost.

[445] Yeah, I would, I would imagine, like, generally when you're acting, even if it's like, okay, well, I've never held someone hostage.

[446] I don't really know in my own life what I can compare this to, but I can go, oh, who's the person I hated the most in my life.

[447] Now, I imagine that that's who's sitting in that chair.

[448] Okay, well, that's my way in.

[449] Well, there's really no way into, like, when's the time I made the most succinct speech ever off the cuff?

[450] And everyone changed direction.

[451] Like, that's just not really something people have a lot of experience with.

[452] There's nothing to ground it.

[453] Totally.

[454] No. No, there was nothing to ground it.

[455] That's exactly it.

[456] I guess it was almost like doing a musical or something.

[457] Because I feel like he writes in sort of in verse.

[458] It's almost like he writes in this kind of rhythm and this verse that is his own.

[459] And so it's honoring that at the same time as trying to make it real and give it some reality and everything as the same time as just, being just scared you're going to humiliate yourself and the whole thing's going to be a disaster and I remember I mean the learning of the lines was just so extreme and I can remember at the very end of the third season when it stopped sitting down in my trailer and realizing that I think I was lying down on the little sofa thing and looking at the trailer and thinking God I don't think I've ever seen my trailer from this position and I've been here for three years and it was because I was just always just fucking pacing I never really sat down if I sat down.

[460] I certainly didn't lay down.

[461] I was just pacing, pacing, pacing, trying to get these fucking words in my head.

[462] And then I always think of the journey from the trailer into the studio.

[463] It was at Sunset Gower that we shot it.

[464] The AD would come and you'd come out of the door and follow them.

[465] And I would just be scared of moving my head even like an inch.

[466] You sort of think that the words are going to fall out of your ears.

[467] If you'd like tilt your head one way or the other, you just got to get there and say it.

[468] And then generally, they shot that show in a similar way to say West Wing or something, right?

[469] So they're hoping for a one take, you know, one shot, a walk and talk of you doing this whole monologue.

[470] So there's no way to break it up or reset you.

[471] You just got to stick it.

[472] Yes, exactly.

[473] Yeah, it was quite high octane and intense.

[474] And also he's a real stickler, which you understand why, because he does write in kind of verse or very rhythmically.

[475] And so, you know, he wants you to get the words out how they're written on the page and I didn't really get that at first, which was sort of just my bad, but I'll never forget the time and I realized that which was in the shooting of the pilot and I was doing a scene where I had to say to Jim, John Gallagher paid my sort of my second in command, my news producer sort of assistant.

[476] I just had to stop him leaving the room and I was going, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, you know, like that.

[477] And I had auditioned with that scene and then we'd done it, you know, and rehearsed it a lot because it was the pilot.

[478] We'd rehearsed it a lot.

[479] And then finally, as we were shooting it, we did the scene and Aaron just exploded and he was like, Emily.

[480] And I was like, yes.

[481] And he went, how many gyms are written on that page?

[482] And I said, I don't know.

[483] A lot.

[484] I said, I don't know what you mean.

[485] I said, I said, how many are you saying?

[486] I said, I don't know.

[487] I think it's different every time I'm just saying how many it takes to stop him from going out the room and he was like there are five gyms written on that piece of paper but you are saying you've said four gyms you've said six gyms you've said eight gyms you've said nine gyms you have never once said five gyms could you please say so I was like okay yeah yeah sure and then it came the five gyms and I bet it was brilliant and way better than six gyms but then the next episode the second episode I had to do, it was a scene where I had accidentally sent some intimate text or email to like a hundred of people in the office and I realized it and I had to go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no no, no, no no, no no, no no, no no, no no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, had written exactly this many, Emily, as in, say how many no's around.

[488] written on the page.

[489] So I framed that piece of paper.

[490] I've got it in my loo.

[491] Oh, that's great.

[492] But I do, I do really think it was music to him.

[493] To him, it was beats in a song kind of thing.

[494] Right.

[495] You would fuck up if you don't say it, how he's heard it in his head.

[496] That's so hard, though, because you immediately go from being in a scene to counting.

[497] Like, if your next take is, I have to do five, then all you're thinking of is counting.

[498] Like, how does that produce?

[499] It's such a hard.

[500] You have to be such a strong actor.

[501] Literally.

[502] No, no, no, no, no with my fingers.

[503] I know.

[504] Keep them out of frame.

[505] I feel like you have to be such a strong actor to be able to do both of those things at once.

[506] And be somewhat believable.

[507] And be believable, yeah.

[508] Yeah, I think I was counting on my fingers on the gym one.

[509] But then I learned from that.

[510] I've got to do it exactly as it said in the thing.

[511] And then you just practice it like that.

[512] So you're ready.

[513] So I'm going to guess that you absolutely love the show and you were so happy when it was canceled.

[514] I love the show.

[515] The funny thing is about that is that it didn't get canceled.

[516] Aaron didn't want to do it anymore.

[517] Oh, really?

[518] They were begging him to do it.

[519] They kept saying, you only need to write five or whatever, and he just was not stown.

[520] And I keep thinking maybe one day he'll come and do something.

[521] Well, just you feel like this moment is just fucking crying out for it.

[522] Yeah.

[523] In such a big way.

[524] And so much of what he was saying at the time, like we were all just giving him grief because he was saying such prophetic stuff about the internet that we were like thinking he was just some old grandad that was down on the internet because at that time, this whole fake news stuff wasn't really a thing.

[525] But it was in his mind.

[526] He was like, you can't get the news from the internet.

[527] You know, the news has to be taken incredibly seriously.

[528] It has to be verified and double -verified.

[529] and everything has to be backed up 25 times before it should be presented to the public as fact.

[530] And how can you have that kind of control, kind of conscientiousness about the truth if you're getting your information online and we were just like, get with it, Grandad, you know, but I think he was dead right.

[531] He was just dead right.

[532] And it's become the biggest problem in our democracy in a way.

[533] Yeah, undermining the fourth estate.

[534] Yeah.

[535] Okay, let's talk about Relic.

[536] It's a movie you're in.

[537] It comes out in July.

[538] It has 100 % on rotten tomatoes.

[539] Does it?

[540] Wow.

[541] I didn't know that.

[542] I have such a ethical quandary to promote that because I hate rotten tomatoes.

[543] But I am excited that you have 100 % on rotten tomatoes.

[544] Does that actually mean anything?

[545] Well, I hate rotten tomatoes, but in some ways it does.

[546] I think 100 % means something.

[547] Yeah.

[548] But anything else maybe doesn't mean very much.

[549] Okay.

[550] It's Definitely a really good movie.

[551] I know that.

[552] I mean, I feel that.

[553] And nothing to do with me. I feel that I know that Natalie James is a great director who directed it, and it's her first movie.

[554] Now that you've been doing this for a while, what's your general appetite to work with a first -time director?

[555] Hi.

[556] I love working with first -end directors.

[557] You know, I mean, as long as you get the vibe that they've got something to say, I think it's really cool.

[558] And often the first time out is amazing.

[559] Everything that they've been boiling up inside them to sort of say for the first 20 or 30 or 40 years of their life, it's all there, you know, whereas the second one that's often the harder not to crack.

[560] But, no, I love working with first -time directors.

[561] And I knew that Natalie was good because I read her script because she wrote the script.

[562] So, you know, she's a realuteur, I think.

[563] And you could tell from reading the script that she was a filmmaker, and that's really exciting.

[564] And it's a psychological horror thrillery?

[565] It's a horror film, but it's about the horror of real life.

[566] It's about three generations of women, but older woman, I'm in the middle, and then my daughter is in her sort of 20s or whatever.

[567] And her grandmother, my mother, has got Alzheimer's.

[568] And as the movie begins, she's gone missing from her house, and we've had to go home to my childhood home to try to work out what's happened to her.

[569] And then she reappears.

[570] And then it's just to sort of examine.

[571] in the horror genre of, you know, the real true life horror of watching someone you love or that you may have a complicated relationship with because they're your mother and everyone has complicated relationships with the people that they love most in the world.

[572] And she is kind of disintegrating both physically and mentally.

[573] And it just really gets to it.

[574] It really gets at the horror of that situation.

[575] If anyone's ever been around someone they love and watch them die, I think that is truly a horrifying experience.

[576] And it is physically, seeing what happens to people's bodies when they die is horrifying.

[577] And having to see people that you love look at you like they've never seen you before when they've never not looked at you with love is horrifying.

[578] It's worse than any horror film I've ever seen, that feeling.

[579] And so what this director, this filmmaker Natalie did was to kind of somehow bottle that feeling and make this brilliant, entertaining.

[580] Like, you can't believe what the shit that she does in that movie.

[581] It's so, it's so kind of audacious, I think.

[582] And yet really emotionally, kind of beautiful.

[583] And by the end of it, oddly enough, there's something really cathartic about it, you know, emotionally.

[584] Like, you really feel better, even though you've been forced through this horrifying journey.

[585] There's something about the kind of coming to terms with death that happens towards the end of the movie, which is also what happens, I think, in real life when people die.

[586] There's a kind of catharsis and acceptance that can be really beautiful despite all the horror that you've gone through, witnessing it, or being by their side as it's happening.

[587] So, anyway, that's what the movie's about.

[588] I think you did a brilliant job.

[589] I also dig this idea of exploring societal things in horror genre, Like, get out.

[590] Yeah, I think it's kind of a really cool way to look at these things.

[591] I hope it's like a pattern that sustains.

[592] Me too.

[593] What I like about the horror genre is that it can be really funny.

[594] If someone was to say sit and watch a movie about somebody dying of Alzheimer's, I would have a really hard time with it, although there have been wonderful, beautiful movies about that that are very straight dramas that are incredible.

[595] But this is so, it's weird because it manages to be so entertaining and funny and kind of outrageous at the same time as getting at something and being really moving.

[596] There's something about the horror genre.

[597] Because it doesn't take itself too seriously, it can't.

[598] They're entertaining, you know.

[599] Yeah, yeah.

[600] And I think you have an obligation to make whatever story you're trying to tell.

[601] Entertaining.

[602] And I feel like you're right.

[603] There's this safety or this cover fire in calling it genre or horror that you're not going to be judged the same way so you can play with these different elements and get out was at times hysterical, at times profound, at times terrifying.

[604] I think also because in horror movies, you can't check out emotionally.

[605] Like, if you're watching a drama, you could maybe, like, check out a little bit.

[606] But with horror, your adrenaline is literally pumping.

[607] So you can't sort of remove yourself.

[608] You're just totally immersed in the whole thing.

[609] Right.

[610] Exactly.

[611] Exactly.

[612] And then I just noticed that you did a movie called Don't Look Deeper with Cheeto.

[613] Are you head over heels in love with Cheeto like we are?

[614] Yes, I love him.

[615] What a gents.

[616] What a cool guy.

[617] Is it a show or a movie?

[618] It's a quibby, you know, it's a quibby show.

[619] It was meant to be coming out around now, and I think they've moved it to like a month from now.

[620] Don't you feel so terrible for this gal Natalie, who's probably spent two years plus on Relic and the notion that people can't go to theaters is got to be heartbreaking, isn't it?

[621] Yes.

[622] Yes.

[623] Yes, yes, although they just announced it's going to be in drive -in theaters.

[624] Oh, cool.

[625] I just was looking for drive -ins close by, like three days ago.

[626] I was Googling drive -ins near me. Really?

[627] Yeah, yeah.

[628] I want to get my kids to a movie, but I want to do it safely.

[629] Yeah.

[630] Did you find the driving that was near you?

[631] Yeah, yeah.

[632] There's a few within like 15, 20 miles.

[633] So, yeah, this is now a summertime goal I have is to go in our old station wagon and watch a movie.

[634] Oh, God.

[635] sounds really nice.

[636] I don't think that any drive -in movie theater is near Bath.

[637] No, I'm pessimistic about that, to be honest.

[638] Have you found Brooklyn to be a wonderful home?

[639] Is Brooklyn the spot?

[640] Do you miss England?

[641] Like, where do you want to be?

[642] I don't know.

[643] That's a really good question.

[644] I ask myself that question all the time.

[645] I want to be where, you know, I want to be when my husband and my kids are, really.

[646] And when my kids both leave home in Brooklyn, I'll be interested to see whether that's where I want to end up being.

[647] I don't know.

[648] I love New York.

[649] I love L .A. We lived in L .A. for about five years before we moved to New York.

[650] And I really, I think English people really like L .A. because it's so exotic.

[651] Yeah, sunny.

[652] It's sunny.

[653] And there's avocado trees and hummingbirds and coyotes.

[654] You can't believe it.

[655] And so I do really miss L .A. I miss the feeling of sort of life being, well, up until now and where, or whatever, everywhere feels perilous, but there was a feeling that you could sort of, you might not die.

[656] There was a feeling in L .A. that if you sort of took your pill and went to your yoga and drunk your wheatgrass, you could sort of just live forever, probably.

[657] And then, because life was so easy.

[658] And in New York, you just feel like that the victory at the end of each day is that you didn't fucking die.

[659] Yeah, yeah.

[660] But I like that too.

[661] Yeah.

[662] Although in the I'm going to live forever place zone, occasionally every kind of three months or so, the earth would fucking like tremble under your feet.

[663] And you'd be like, we're all going to fucking die.

[664] Why is everybody pretending we're not?

[665] Well, that's because the simulation has figured out you need to get scared every six months to be able to enjoy the fake environment.

[666] They've all figured it out.

[667] Last question has nothing to do with you, but your husband, Elisandro.

[668] Yes.

[669] He's going to be in a prequel to, The Sopranos?

[670] Sopranos.

[671] Yes.

[672] I'm so excited.

[673] It was my favorite show of all time.

[674] And the notion that there's more from that world for me to see is thrilled.

[675] Yeah, I know.

[676] And I think it's really going to be amazing and he's amazing in it.

[677] And it's so cool.

[678] It's so exciting.

[679] But of course, then that's all an unknown about now when that's going to come out and things.

[680] Because that really should come out in the theaters because it's such a sort of, you know, a spectacle and a big deal.

[681] And it was made for the cinema.

[682] so I guess they're waiting for when it's safe to go back.

[683] Yeah.

[684] Well, Emily, we adore you.

[685] I loved you so, so much on the newsroom, and I'm excited to see Relic.

[686] I'm excited to see that topic explored in that paradigm.

[687] I think that's going to be really fun, and I hope the 100 % stays, and I wish you a ton of luck.

[688] And, you know, enjoy bath.

[689] I assume you must drink a ton there.

[690] Yes.

[691] Everybody's drunk from morning till night.

[692] Yeah, good, good, good.

[693] Well, we adore you, and I hope we get to do it in person sometime.

[694] Me too.

[695] I really loved it.

[696] You guys were really awesome.

[697] It was really fun talking to you.

[698] My mom would definitely have approved.

[699] Tell her she's next on our list, for sure.

[700] Okay, okay, good.

[701] All right.

[702] Okay, take care.

[703] Be well.

[704] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[705] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soul made Monica Padman.

[706] Do you think that'd be off -putting of in the intro?

[707] I said, Emily Mortimer?

[708] No. Okay.

[709] I don't.

[710] I think that's fun.

[711] Do you know Delta's got like four bona fide characters now?

[712] Tell me. Well, she's got her like lofty queenie.

[713] Have you ever heard her to her English accent now?

[714] Yes.

[715] So she has that obviously.

[716] And then she has, that's nasty.

[717] Oh, yeah.

[718] Right?

[719] Tiffany Haddish.

[720] Sure.

[721] Borderline.

[722] Yeah, yeah.

[723] I mean, she doesn't know, so it's not borderline, but it is borderline.

[724] Uh -huh.

[725] In fact, I wonder if anyone can relate to this in the rest of America where your kids, they're watching a cartoon and it's being voiced by a black actor and Tiffany Haddish's case in a very specific manner.

[726] Yeah.

[727] But my five -year -old doesn't know she's black, so she's just trying to imitate precisely what she's hearing because she likes how it sounds so much.

[728] Yeah.

[729] And then I'm listening going, hmm, should I tell her you shouldn't really imitate black people?

[730] Yeah.

[731] Because she's practicing her voices.

[732] And she's doing all the voices.

[733] She doesn't know who's what.

[734] But it's dicey.

[735] Yeah.

[736] I mean, it is tricky because it is an opportunity to be like, okay.

[737] So let's talk about these things.

[738] It is, but I mean, I'm wondering.

[739] And generally, I like to think generally I'll run right at those things, you know, whether it's sex or this or that.

[740] But I'm pessimistic about trying to explain to her.

[741] You can do these voices because these people are white, but you can't do this person because she's black, but then she'd be like, no, no, she's a cat.

[742] Well.

[743] And I go, well, yes, it is a cat, but it's a cat being played by a black person.

[744] You really shouldn't imitate black people.

[745] It's a kind of weird concept.

[746] It is.

[747] It is.

[748] It is.

[749] It is.

[750] To me, it seems more obvious.

[751] Like, if she was doing a generic Indian accent, I would go, like, oh, that's kind of making fun of, you know.

[752] But Tiffany's is her, she's not putting on some stereotype of, you know what I'm saying?

[753] But what if it was just an Indian?

[754] in person and then she was doing it what would you say like there's a skill set i'm impressed by and i'm encouraging of i'm someone who believes in doing characters at the groundlings so the more practice you know she doesn't need to practice doing any of these accents of people of color because she can't ever use them she can't but it's just more control right more more practice more vocal control more and then and then i feel like there'll be a time to explain She's not going out and performing this.

[755] If she was doing an Indian accent in front of me, I would tell her you can't.

[756] That's great.

[757] Yeah.

[758] And it would be hard to tell her, but I would feel like now's the time.

[759] Uh -huh.

[760] But what if the Indian accent was coming from a frog in a cartoon?

[761] I don't know how I would say it, but I would feel obligated in that moment to course correct what is starting to happen.

[762] I'd have feared that maybe in her little friendship group, she'd start doing it.

[763] Yeah, well, she's smart enough and she's...

[764] Well, she's very woke.

[765] Well, she kind of is because she grew up with me. That's right, that's right.

[766] But she's sweet enough to know she doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

[767] That's true.

[768] I'm sorry, I'm distracted laughing about the time in New York City.

[769] Oh, that was Lincoln.

[770] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[771] I know you love that story.

[772] Well, it's just so innocent and it's so offensive.

[773] Okay, so the story is, if you haven't heard it, the story is that Lincoln...

[774] I was in a cab with Lincoln in New York City, and the next to our cab was two horses pulling a carriage.

[775] Yeah.

[776] And one of the horses was white.

[777] Yeah.

[778] And one of the horses was black.

[779] Yeah.

[780] And she said, look, a Monica horse, or that horse looks like Monica.

[781] Yeah.

[782] And I was like, there's a lot of things you're kids.

[783] say that you just immediately have a little bit of panic.

[784] Like, I'm like, I don't immediately know what I'm supposed to say here.

[785] Of course.

[786] Yes, Monica is dark.

[787] We talk about that.

[788] Monica's brown.

[789] That horse is dark and that one's light.

[790] You probably shouldn't compare humans to animals.

[791] There's a bad history of comparing black people to animals.

[792] You know, how far do you take it?

[793] Yeah.

[794] Well, it's funny.

[795] It's funny.

[796] Okay.

[797] This gets so complicated.

[798] So Carly texted me that.

[799] Okay.

[800] And that was triggering?

[801] Yeah.

[802] Uh -huh.

[803] Not the story.

[804] Uh -huh.

[805] The fact that like, oh, my God, this hilarious thing happened.

[806] Right.

[807] You felt like you were being laughed at in some weird way.

[808] But really Lincoln's being laughed at in that story.

[809] Yes, but the point of the joke is that, because Lincoln is not.

[810] making a joke.

[811] She is just literally noticing the difference that were white and you're brown.

[812] Yes.

[813] And there was a white horse and there was a brown horse.

[814] So that's the Monaco horse.

[815] I would have maybe said, although she was so young.

[816] And then that one looks like you.

[817] Uh -huh.

[818] I actually think I did that.

[819] Yeah.

[820] I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure that's what I did.

[821] Yeah, because also like this whole conversation right now about color.

[822] blindness.

[823] Like, she's right.

[824] There is a difference in those two colors.

[825] And she's not saying, ew, that one looks like, mom.

[826] She was excited.

[827] Yeah.

[828] So that's fine.

[829] I think that's totally fine for her to, like, notice the differences, as long as it's not like, this one's different.

[830] It's that, oh, these two look different.

[831] But the adult saying, oh, my God, this funny thing happened, this crazy thing happened is more triggering.

[832] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[833] Yeah, I see that.

[834] I see that.

[835] I think equal parts that the adults laughing about it is dicey and uniquely triggering to you the notion that your otherness is being pointed out.

[836] So it's probably more weighted for you're receiving it a little more weighted and it's a little flawed to begin with.

[837] Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's more weighted.

[838] Because I can tell you, it tickled me in the way of what do I say right now.

[839] It's very interesting that we have a loved one in our family that is brown.

[840] And then there's these two horses.

[841] And that's, it's maybe seemingly all fine.

[842] It's just like, oh, do I need, what do I do?

[843] Of course.

[844] That's what's funny about it.

[845] Of course.

[846] It's like, this is just a very gray area of what am I supposed to say back to this?

[847] Totally.

[848] But also when you're saying, I don't know what to say to that, if I'm being honest, when I get that text, I'm like, I don't know what to say to this.

[849] Sure.

[850] Like, sure.

[851] Cool.

[852] Hilarious?

[853] Yeah, yeah.

[854] I don't think it's hilarious.

[855] Yes.

[856] So I either have to lie to you.

[857] and make you feel fine about sending me that text or, you know, it's like, okay, I don't know.

[858] It's just not that this was not a big deal at all.

[859] No, no, no, but I told you about it.

[860] And why did I tell you about it?

[861] I just thought because it was just a queer feeling for me. Totally.

[862] And then so I shared it with you because you were part of the queer feeling.

[863] Totally.

[864] And that's, and I wasn't like, oh, they keep talking about this.

[865] Sure, sure.

[866] You know, I was not even thinking about it.

[867] It's just like one of the many, just small things of like, well, I guess the point, the real point I'm making about all this is that we're all in a zone where some of the most commonly held things that I thought were no big deal, I am learning our big deals.

[868] And I'm not quite sure where that line ends.

[869] Like, I'm in a, like, you know, can kids imitate voices from cartoons?

[870] Right.

[871] I think in the future they will be.

[872] Like in a utopian society where black folks are as empowered as white folks, I think white kids can do that voice.

[873] 100%.

[874] We're not there yet, but then that's a very complicated conversation in its own.

[875] Like, you know, Delta and, you know, hopefully in 30 years you can do this.

[876] But currently they're marginalized and that's why you can't.

[877] This is just pretty big concepts.

[878] Oh, they for sure are.

[879] Emily.

[880] Emily.

[881] She was so cute, Emily Mortimer.

[882] I forgot to ask her if she's related to Emily Berger, because she lives in Brooklyn and her name is Emily.

[883] That's right.

[884] Even though we've met Emily and we know the answer, we did want to pretend that she owns Emily's.

[885] Yeah.

[886] Or that she is somehow like the queen of it or something.

[887] I am very regretful that we didn't bring up Emily's.

[888] Simply just if she hasn't eaten there, either we could have bonded over because if she has, she would certainly be obsessed with it.

[889] And then if she hadn't, we would be saving her life.

[890] by recommending the place.

[891] Hi, Emily.

[892] You're so cute.

[893] You're so cute.

[894] We had the best time talking to her.

[895] We wish we had a little more time with her.

[896] We really want to meet your mom, and we thought about trying to contact her for this fact check, but things didn't.

[897] We got lazy.

[898] Yeah, I got lazy.

[899] I thought you, we, we got lazy.

[900] It was a shared idea.

[901] It was your idea, and it was my fault.

[902] I should have executed it, but I didn't.

[903] I just wanted to hear light up a dart on the call.

[904] I know.

[905] Yeah, she sounds like a real hoot.

[906] She sure does.

[907] And then I started since we recorded this, I started rewatching the newsroom.

[908] Oh, right.

[909] Do you think because of that we had talked to her?

[910] Is that why it was on your radar?

[911] I guess so.

[912] I mean, every time the newsroom comes up, I always think like, oh, I'd like to rewatch that.

[913] I love that show.

[914] But then since we were talking about it so much, I think it was Bader Meinhohf.

[915] We've interviewed now several people that have worked for.

[916] Or Sorkin.

[917] And it's really funny because every time we ask them about what it's like to do that dialogue, and you can tell they're being as diplomatic as possible.

[918] What they really want to say is like, I'm grateful to have been on a show that he wrote because he's so brilliant.

[919] And it's fucking miserable.

[920] I think that's what they really want to say.

[921] Although I thought that when she was talking about the having to say it five times and stuff, I think I would feel really triggered at first.

[922] And then I think for me, I would love.

[923] love it.

[924] Yeah, I do too.

[925] That's more your personality.

[926] Yeah, I would love feeling like I aced it.

[927] Yes.

[928] I got it perfect.

[929] Even though I love improv, I mean, all I do is improvise, but there's something nice about just.

[930] Well, see, I don't have that.

[931] I have the opposite kind of egotomaniacal drive of making something better than I get it.

[932] My main goal is to add some sliver of me. For sure.

[933] Because I had the experience once.

[934] Well, like, I got to read for the Cohen brothers and I went back like I read for them and then I didn't hear anything but they they were laughing and I was like that was awesome I don't care if I get this I just I'm so glad I got to perform in front of my heroes and they laughed yeah and then like probably a month or six weeks went by and I didn't hear anything I thought well okay I didn't get that and then I get a call hey they want to see you again but they they've rewritten the scenes you auditioned with I was like oh Okay.

[935] And then I went there and they said, which is so flattering, they go, the only thing funny about that scene was what you were adding to it.

[936] And we realized the scene needs to be funnier.

[937] He's like, so you showed us that that scene was supposed to be funnier.

[938] And I said, well, my acting does have the ability to shine a light on bad writing.

[939] That's what my right.

[940] That's my acting so limited that if the writing's not precise.

[941] You can't make it good.

[942] Yeah, yeah.

[943] Exactly.

[944] I can't elevate it.

[945] So.

[946] And then I read.

[947] And again, it was really, really fun.

[948] And then they hired Channing Tatum, which I love chanting.

[949] So there we go.

[950] But it was real.

[951] But I wanted to make them happy so much.

[952] And the whole time I was like, don't push too hard.

[953] Don't push it.

[954] Be funny.

[955] But be funny in a couple minutes.

[956] So you were improvising.

[957] You know, I did this scene straight.

[958] I was doing this crazy.

[959] I had to do a Swedish accent, which I had never tried.

[960] Oh, my God.

[961] And I just watched YouTube videos of Swedish accents.

[962] I was doing a full -blown Swedish accent.

[963] they brought me back.

[964] I was so fearful of doing that accent.

[965] Obviously, it wasn't so bad that they called me back.

[966] Well, you're good at accents.

[967] Well, my soul made, you know, something that she does.

[968] She gets really embarrassed when I do them, so I don't do them as much as I do.

[969] I'm telling you do a good job.

[970] Anywho, I did it straight as hell.

[971] But then after I was done, I made a couple jokes before I left the room.

[972] And then I got them laughing from me. Oh, you were just chatting.

[973] I was chatting, and I made them laugh a few times.

[974] And I got out before I overstayed my welcome.

[975] And then that I guess when they decided you're really funny, that should have been a funnier scene.

[976] That's fun.

[977] That's so flattering.

[978] Oh, it was such a highlight.

[979] Yeah.

[980] You know what?

[981] I take that back.

[982] They did not give the role I auditioned for to Channing, but my scenes would have been with Channing.

[983] I was the Swedish director in all of Channing's scenes.

[984] Oh, interesting.

[985] I think they ultimately hired an actual Swede.

[986] Oh, well, that makes sense.

[987] Yeah.

[988] But it's something specific about Sorkin because his language is so specific and And no one talks like that.

[989] No one talks like that.

[990] I'd be terrible in them because I'm going for the opposite thing, right?

[991] In general, I'm trying to figure out how I would exactly be or what I would exactly do in that moment.

[992] In your real life, you've never made a five -minute speech.

[993] I know, but you wish you could.

[994] That's the thing about him is no one talks like that, but everyone wishes they could talk like that.

[995] That's the big appeal of him.

[996] I know.

[997] I love him.

[998] Yeah, but I just don't know what you anchor that to, have.

[999] having never really done that in real life.

[1000] You've never made this impromptu fucking amazing eight -minute speech that sums up global politics in that eight minutes.

[1001] It's just like, what do you recalling back?

[1002] Like, oh, I remember that time I made that amazing speech.

[1003] And I remember feeling this way and I got to remember to feel that way.

[1004] But that's only one tactic of acting what you're saying.

[1005] You're dead right.

[1006] And it just happens to be the only one that works for me. Yeah.

[1007] We were told not to do that.

[1008] Oh, really?

[1009] Yes, because...

[1010] Like sense memory and...

[1011] Yes, we were taught...

[1012] You can't rely on that 100 % of the time, so you can't have that in your arsenal.

[1013] It was way more about motivation, so like breaking down the script into verbs, basically.

[1014] So, like, this line is, I'm trying to get you to agree with me. This line, I'm trying, you know, like you break it up into motivation.

[1015] Right, right.

[1016] And then you can work off that always, but you can't always work off of like, well, when I was five, I was sad about this.

[1017] You know, anyway, but there's just so many ways to do it.

[1018] There's skin a cap.

[1019] There are.

[1020] Anywho.

[1021] Well, right before we started recording this, we were just talking about the fighter.

[1022] I happened to rewatch the fighter last night.

[1023] And Christian Bale, holy fucking.

[1024] Couldn't be better.

[1025] Oh, my God.

[1026] He's an acting genius.

[1027] Yeah, he's a phenom.

[1028] Another acting genius, Champagne.

[1029] Sorry, we're all over the place, but it's fine.

[1030] Sorry, Emily.

[1031] I think Sean Penn is an acting genius.

[1032] And he was just recently on Stern, and he was so phenomenal.

[1033] He was brilliant.

[1034] He was brilliant.

[1035] I wanted to marry him immediately.

[1036] Did you?

[1037] Oh, yes.

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] I've always been, to be honest, I'm always like, what's he doing in full disclosure?

[1040] A, I fucking love him as an actor.

[1041] I think he's just the.

[1042] the best.

[1043] I'm like, why is he in Haiti?

[1044] I've had these theories, right?

[1045] I'm going to be really brutal right now.

[1046] I have such a war perspective because I look at things as addicts, right?

[1047] So there's so many things that feel very addicty to me. Sean Penn, I'm like, why is he in Haiti?

[1048] Is he in Haiti because he woke up super hungover and he's like, I'm a fucking piece of shit.

[1049] I got to go do something productive and then got on a plane and then figured it out when he got there.

[1050] That was maybe one of my theories.

[1051] Okay.

[1052] And then hearing him on Stern, I'm like, no, this guy is exceptional.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] And it's all intentional.

[1055] And he's not actually trying to create such a big explosion over here that he can ignore the explosion he created on the left, which is kind of like what addicts will do, right?

[1056] It's like they're searching for something much more attention grabbing than their addiction.

[1057] Oh, I see.

[1058] And you might be doing some projecting.

[1059] I'm certainly doing some projecting at all times.

[1060] But anyways, yes, the Stern interview is incredible.

[1061] He's incredible.

[1062] He's so articulate.

[1063] He's brilliant.

[1064] He said one thing that I thought was so good.

[1065] He was talking about pessimism.

[1066] He was saying that he's generally a pessimist, but he's realizing that pessimists are cowards, I think he said.

[1067] Pessimists are cowards.

[1068] They're afraid to win.

[1069] But he was lumping himself in that category and saying, I'm coming out of that, but because that's what this is.

[1070] I'm seeing, which is, I loved it.

[1071] I loved it.

[1072] Yeah, I would recommend it.

[1073] I immediately called Monica and was like, you have to listen to this interview.

[1074] Yeah, and we were in a fight, so I wanted to say no. Yeah, yeah.

[1075] But I had to because I knew it was going to be good.

[1076] You're going to have to change your profile age to 60 now.

[1077] Yeah, I'm going to.

[1078] I'm going to.

[1079] You took it up to 55 to include Brad Pitt, but now you're going to go all the way to 60 to include.

[1080] But remember when he was outside my door?

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] That was so exciting.

[1083] I was really taken aback.

[1084] Okay.

[1085] Okay.

[1086] All right.

[1087] Okay.

[1088] Mortimer.

[1089] You know how her mom thinks smoking is a defense against coronavirus.

[1090] Well, it is.

[1091] Nope.

[1092] It is.

[1093] It is.

[1094] It's not.

[1095] I will read some stuff right now.

[1096] Okay.

[1097] All right.

[1098] I have a few things, so I knew you.

[1099] you are going to really push back.

[1100] I'm so pro -smoking.

[1101] Killed my father.

[1102] Just love it.

[1103] Smoking doubles your risk of getting sicker from COVID.

[1104] In a review of five studies published to date, smoking is most likely associated with getting sicker with COVID -19.

[1105] In the largest study of 1099 people with COVID -19, people who smoke were 2 .4 times more likely to get really sick, admitted to an intensive care unit needing mechanical ventilation dying, compared to those who did not smoke.

[1106] Smoking can cause chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and other problems that make contribute to serious illness.

[1107] An April study out of France suggested that smokers are less likely to be infected with COVID -19 than non -smokers.

[1108] But in a media briefing May 8th, the World Health Organization leader said the research has important caveats and that smoking is known to lead to a higher risk of severe disease.

[1109] Still, researchers are looking into whether nicotine delivered via patch may be somehow protective against the virus.

[1110] So I think it is possible in this case right now that both things are true, that it's harder to get if you smoke, but if you get it and you smoke, then it's deadlier.

[1111] Both those things could be true.

[1112] In one study, 391 health volunteers had one of five respiratory viruses, including a coronavirus, dropped in a liquid into their noses.

[1113] The volunteers who smoked were twice as likely as those who did not smoke to develop an infection.

[1114] Smoking is known to weaken the immune system and the body's ability to fight infections.

[1115] But it is saying they don't know yet about nicotine.

[1116] You're going to do some side research?

[1117] I won't if we're going to fight.

[1118] We're not going to fight.

[1119] Okay, I just want to ask one specific question.

[1120] It is saying that there was a study.

[1121] That's why a lot of people think this.

[1122] So I'm going to separate it just right now from smoking and just say nicotine.

[1123] Oh, well, that's separate.

[1124] That's like a New York Times article, I recall.

[1125] But that's a different thing.

[1126] That is a different thing.

[1127] Does nicotine lower chances of catching corona?

[1128] Is that how you would have phrased that search?

[1129] Sure.

[1130] I think so much of life has become how good you are at asking the right question to get the info you want.

[1131] World Horth organization.

[1132] Here's how that.

[1133] that rumor that smokers can't get COVID got started.

[1134] Saw a few of those.

[1135] So the rumors that smokers probably put you at greater or not less.

[1136] Okay, well, I did not win this round.

[1137] I'm glad you didn't win, right?

[1138] Because what we don't need is a bunch of people starting to smoke right now.

[1139] No, but I want to win because I chew a ton of nicotine.

[1140] And I like to think that maybe I'll get some benefit from that.

[1141] Nicotine, again, in this, it says they're still looking into it.

[1142] So potentially, which is probably where the thing gets confused because there's nicotine and smoky.

[1143] It's a delivery system.

[1144] Exactly.

[1145] Okay.

[1146] Does Relic have 100 % on Rotten Tomatoes?

[1147] Yes.

[1148] Still has 100%.

[1149] Great.

[1150] Okay.

[1151] Is Penelope a more popular name in England than America?

[1152] Oh, I'm so glad you're finding this out.

[1153] I know.

[1154] I didn't find out too much.

[1155] Okay, great.

[1156] But listen.

[1157] anecdotally, they do.

[1158] They do?

[1159] In my head.

[1160] Okay.

[1161] But, because I don't know any Penelope's, do you?

[1162] No, not one.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] Not one.

[1165] There's a Penelope character in Fleabag, and Emily has two Penelope moms, and this.

[1166] Okay, there are 21 ,572 people in the U .S. with the first name Penelope.

[1167] Statistically, the 1 ,318th most popular first name.

[1168] Okay.

[1169] But I couldn't find in an English data?

[1170] But listen.

[1171] Okay.

[1172] Penelope was first used as a name in Britain in the 16th century.

[1173] There we go.

[1174] So it means Weaver, but it's actually a Greek name originally.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] So we can conclude that there are more per capita Penelope.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] It's a really cute name.

[1179] I know.

[1180] My mom's best friend's name is Penny, so I can assume her name is Penelope.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] Oh, Penny Marshall.

[1183] I wonder if she was Penelope.

[1184] She probably was.

[1185] I'll look it up.

[1186] But she's obviously British.

[1187] Laverne and Shirley.

[1188] No. Her name is Carol Penny Marshall.

[1189] There we go.

[1190] So maybe your mom's girlfriend, her gal pal, is.

[1191] Was Carol Penny.

[1192] What was Carol Penny Marshall?

[1193] Oh, my God, your mom's friends with Penny Marshall.

[1194] Oh, my gosh.

[1195] Anywho, so it's a beautiful name.

[1196] It is.

[1197] That's all for Miss Emily.

[1198] Okay, great.

[1199] Well, again, just really enjoyed.

[1200] Really funny, cute stories.

[1201] I know it.

[1202] About that lazy eye.

[1203] That was tremendous.

[1204] So great job, really good take.

[1205] I just love what you're doing with the character.

[1206] So your left eye is lazier than you're right.

[1207] So I don't know, do the exact same thing, but open your eyes.

[1208] That's so acting.

[1209] It has nothing to do with acting.

[1210] That's where the rubber meets the road.

[1211] They don't tell you that in acting school, I can't imagine.

[1212] They do not.

[1213] They do not.

[1214] Yeah, like one class would just be like, overcoming your real physical ailments.

[1215] Hiding imperfections.

[1216] They do, like, you know, you take a movement class and the first, like, whole half of the class is trying to get to neutral.

[1217] So you spend, like, a long time trying to neutralize your body, your walk, all of it so that you can then add stuff.

[1218] But, yeah, all right.

[1219] Okay.

[1220] That's acting 101.

[1221] The only walk I could ever do in a movie would be with Jess's, which I hope one day do.

[1222] Bye.

[1223] Bye.

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