Reggie Fils-Aimé (former Nintendo president)

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to our armchair, expert, experts on expert.

[1] I'm Dax, Randall Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Mr. Master Miniature, Duluth, President, and Duchess of Duluth, Monica Pastman.

[3] Today we have Reggie Fisemae on.

[4] Reggie is an award -winning innovator and former president and C -O -O of Nintendo.

[5] This was really fun because it's so outside of our wheelhouse.

[6] We don't know very much about gaming, and we got to learn a lot.

[7] And really what we got to learn is about, like, what made Nintendo.

[8] Nintendo.

[9] Yes, and how they found their lane amongst new competition.

[10] Yeah, it's as much about marketing as it is about gaming.

[11] Really, really interesting conversation.

[12] His book is out now.

[13] It's called Disrupting the Game from the Bronx to the top of Nintendo.

[14] There's a human story here because Reggie is the first American CEO and first CEO of color for Nintendo.

[15] Yeah, very cool.

[16] Incredible.

[17] Please enjoy Reggie Fisome.

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[21] I just don't want to spill.

[22] Don't worry.

[23] This place is a dump and we don't give a fuck.

[24] We spill.

[25] Part of the charm of this place, we believe, is, No one's going to be on their best behavior in here, right?

[26] I mean, there's cables hanging from the ceiling.

[27] So you're saying this is all a strategy to get your guests comfortable, get them relaxed.

[28] Yeah, vulnerable.

[29] That's what the environment is all about.

[30] Well, so there is a calculated approach to things.

[31] And then there's just a natural.

[32] This is me. We have this rug.

[33] Sometimes I power wash it.

[34] Like, I'd say once every eight months, I power wash it.

[35] But I'm not too tidy.

[36] So as a guest, when you walk in and then you see that stain.

[37] Don't forget that one in front of you.

[38] Yeah, I didn't notice that one right away.

[39] I noticed that one's loud.

[40] Yeah, it looks like motor oil that one.

[41] Yeah, yeah.

[42] That one is loud.

[43] We did a photo shoot in here not too long ago for Spotify, and we kept having to put different things from the room over that staying, because it was just too distracting.

[44] But you've certainly been at a video village as a head marketer, and someone on the team was like, that plant in the background is asymmetrical to the, and someone comes in, and they literally.

[45] turn the leaf on this thing.

[46] And then as the actor in that thing, you're like, that's the most important thing that's happening right now?

[47] It can be very demoralizing.

[48] You've must have been in those shoots.

[49] I've been in those shoots.

[50] I was always trained.

[51] I'm not the one to go to the background and touch anything.

[52] Okay.

[53] You got to talk to the assistant on the agency who then talks to the assistant on the production and this whole game of telephone then happens, right?

[54] But I tended to be a good client.

[55] I behaved.

[56] I didn't do anything I shouldn't have done.

[57] Well, it gets tricky, and I've seen this from all the sides.

[58] There seems to be a curious thing that happens a lot with big traditional companies, which is they say, we need some help.

[59] Let's go to this agency.

[60] They know what they're doing.

[61] They just did, let's do it.

[62] That was revolutionary.

[63] They go there, but they don't ever really let them do it.

[64] Or it's definitely hard.

[65] Would you agree with that?

[66] That is absolutely true.

[67] That's why oftentimes in my career, the first thing that I wouldn't do, this is change the agency.

[68] My belief was the agency has knowledge, they have perspective, let me glean from that, and then if something needs to be changed, then I'll go change it.

[69] Yeah.

[70] But the marketer's mentality to want to go somewhere, the hot, fancy agency du jour, and then not let them do their thing is just a huge mistake.

[71] The halfway measures never work.

[72] Yeah.

[73] Yeah.

[74] Here's what I would end up doing.

[75] We would have the script.

[76] We know what we wanted to get.

[77] We get that done early.

[78] And then all of a sudden, it's based on what's going on with the cast, what's going on with the director.

[79] Okay, now let's try this.

[80] Let's try that.

[81] Let's push here.

[82] Let's push there.

[83] And I found that's always where the magic happens.

[84] Yeah.

[85] So to fast forward to the end result for me is like, A, washing cars on commercials.

[86] And then to like Samsung approaching my wife and I and saying we'd like to do spots with you.

[87] And then me saying, there's only one version we would do, which is you'd get us.

[88] So it's not anything scripted.

[89] You're going to have to have some faith.

[90] let us hang out in a setting and exist.

[91] But I could see all the tremendous anxiety it was causing.

[92] This is a Korean company who has a way of doing things in Korea.

[93] They have a system that's worked in the past.

[94] And so this was such a divergent from that that it was terrifying.

[95] And you, of course, working at Nintendo, I'm sure you were constantly straddling this very traditional company based in Kyoto and then marketing to 13 -year -old boys in America.

[96] Absolutely.

[97] From my perspective, What I needed to understand was the product, the messaging, broadstrokes, how we're going to get this done.

[98] Then we needed to find a way to make it relevant here in the Americas.

[99] And having then the conversation with the teams back in Kyoto and helping them understand, here's why we're doing what we're doing.

[100] Right.

[101] Because it's going to be relevant.

[102] It's going to make sense.

[103] And I was fortunate to have the track record.

[104] Yes.

[105] And have enough successes that people would say, okay, great, Reggie, we get it.

[106] We believe you, and then to be able to push it forward.

[107] But it was hard work.

[108] I mean, imagine having the conversation with executives in Kyoto saying that in this we commercial, introducing the American consumer to this new phenomenon called we, because it's so approachable, because it's going to be so much fun, helping them try and understand why that made so much sense was incredibly hard.

[109] And I had to push and push and push.

[110] What was the stumbling block for them conceptually?

[111] It was that these two Japanese businessmen who were in suits, white shirt and ties, were being too familiar with the people whose homes they'd gone into.

[112] Oh, culturally.

[113] They're playing around with grandma who's at the stove and tasting her soup from the communal soup spoon, which we think about and say, wow, that's exactly what would happen.

[114] But they saw that and say, no, no. this would never happen.

[115] But come on.

[116] So really Japanese businessmen walk around selling products door to door.

[117] Does that always happen as well?

[118] Right, right.

[119] It was just getting them comfortable with the concept, what it was that we were trying to do.

[120] But it was work.

[121] Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

[122] I'm fascinated by what little things you would bump up against along the way.

[123] One of the biggest insights when we would be doing commercials for Nintendo games is making sure that the talent knew how to play a game.

[124] Uh -huh.

[125] Oh, sure.

[126] Give them the controller, let them play.

[127] This would be done during the casting.

[128] And if you had someone who just didn't know their way around a controller, it's like, no. Reggie, that would have been me. Come on, I thought you were quite the gamer.

[129] No, listen, as an aspiring actor, you have a resume on back, and you're just trying to open up as many opportunities as possible.

[130] So under special skills, you'll write karate expert, gamer, basketball star.

[131] You're just hoping to get called into every single commercial audition.

[132] So I'm sure so many people that have claimed to be gamers got in those auditions and were like, I don't know.

[133] You know which way to hold this thing.

[134] Yeah, they did not last very long.

[135] The whole thing that we would do is we would just look to represent the game naturally, right?

[136] If you're playing Mario Kart, you've got to know what you're doing in playing Mario Kart.

[137] It's advertising for Animal Crossing.

[138] You have to at least be familiar with the content.

[139] Otherwise, it just doesn't work.

[140] Yeah, 1 ,000%.

[141] Okay, so let's rewind now because you have a really interesting origin story.

[142] and foremost, you were the first American president of Nintendo.

[143] That's its own accomplishment.

[144] And let's now add in that your first generation Haitian, that your parents both emigrated from Haiti here, tell us about your paternal grandfather versus your maternal grandfather.

[145] Talk about Romeo and Juliet.

[146] To set the stage, Haiti has moved from a democratic government to dictatorship and back and forth.

[147] That's been its unfortunate history.

[148] So now, imagine, Imagine in the 50s, my maternal grandfather, my grandpa Camille, he is a doctor by training, came to the United States, studied at Harvard, and he is now back in Haiti, and he is essentially the Secretary of Health and Education for the Democratic government of Haiti.

[149] There's lots of corruption going on.

[150] He doesn't want to be part of it.

[151] He ends up leaving the government in protest.

[152] couple years later, you have Francois Duvalier, who's coming to power.

[153] And whenever the dictators come to power, they always make sure to align themselves with the military.

[154] Well, my grandpère Henry, on my father's side, was a senior person within the Haitian military.

[155] He was a general?

[156] He was a colonel.

[157] Okay.

[158] But that's the number two position within the Haitian military.

[159] And so, yes, from that perspective, they very much were on opposite sides of what was going on.

[160] And as Duvalier is coming to power, my Gompé Camille is becoming more and more vocal about the atrocities and all the things that are happening.

[161] I have to imagine he's now critical of both sides.

[162] The incoming coup and the outgoing government he was critical of the corruption on.

[163] Absolutely.

[164] But at this point, he really is focused on Duvalier, because Duvalier is the one who's coming into power.

[165] who's doing all of these nasty things, and he is incredibly outspoken to the point where there's a UN convention happening in New York City, and he's determined to come and speak at this convention, to talk about all of these atrocities.

[166] He's essentially told, if you do this, bad things will happen.

[167] To you, bad things are going to happen to your family.

[168] And so he had to make the decision, right?

[169] Do I do what I believe is morally right, or do I not?

[170] Well, he chooses to come to New York.

[171] He speaks at this conference.

[172] My grandmother was to come to the United States afterwards, and she's detained.

[173] Oh, wow.

[174] And she's told, you're never going to leave Haiti.

[175] Oh.

[176] Not my grandmother, not my uncle, who's the youngest of the family.

[177] They stayed in Haiti until my grandfather died.

[178] Oh, my God.

[179] My grandmother and grandfather never saw each other again.

[180] Oh, my.

[181] You know, that's all the backstory.

[182] How did your father get here, then?

[183] So my grandpa Henry, he was chosen by Duvalier to Duvalier government to staff the Haitian consulate in Miami.

[184] Okay.

[185] So my father comes with him to Miami.

[186] He's a lighter -skinned black man with curly hair.

[187] And this is Florida in the mid to later 50s.

[188] So segregation, racism.

[189] And my father is experiencing this and says, I hate Miami.

[190] He moves up to New York.

[191] My mother's already in New York.

[192] They had met each other at all of the Haitian balls and the things that happened back in Haiti.

[193] We obviously have this perception of Haiti post -earthquake post -hurricanes tremendously impoverished island.

[194] And they're neighboring, right?

[195] They share an island with the Dominican Republic, which is, you know, by relative standards, thriving.

[196] That's accurate?

[197] That is very accurate.

[198] So in the 50s, though, were they peaking like Cuba was?

[199] Cuba was a thriving spot before Fidel.

[200] Not quite like Cuba, but very much on the upswing.

[201] There's always been a part of the population that's been dealing with poverty and undereducated.

[202] But at that time, in the late 40s, 50s, there was also a segment that was well -educated that would get the equivalent of a collegiate education.

[203] here in the United States.

[204] And that's where my father and my mother, their families were in that echelon.

[205] So educated, speaking Parisian French and studying at world -class universities.

[206] That was the dichotomy of Haiti at that time.

[207] Now, and I know the slave origins of the population is a holding area, right, generally.

[208] And then cane sugar production?

[209] It was not only a way station for the slave trade, But the French were using the slave population in the plantations, whether it was for sugar, coffee, all of these agricultural products.

[210] Yeah.

[211] And this is all through the late 1600s, 1700s.

[212] And Haiti was the first nation in the Western Hemisphere to throw off the shackles of slavery.

[213] They fought the French.

[214] And essentially, that's how Haiti was emancipated.

[215] They won their freedom from France.

[216] Alexander Hamilton, where was he?

[217] I thought it was Jamaica.

[218] Okay.

[219] But don't hold me to that.

[220] Okay.

[221] Now, when you do a 23 -Me test, have you done one?

[222] I have not done one.

[223] Oh, you haven't.

[224] Relatives of mine have done them.

[225] What comes back is this hodgepodge of Eastern European.

[226] Okay.

[227] Western European.

[228] Africa.

[229] It is truly a hodgepodge.

[230] I was an anthropology major.

[231] Ding, ding.

[232] And it's an interesting population to look at.

[233] The whole Caribbean is really interesting because it's a, own ethnicity.

[234] Like when you're in New York, people talk about Dominicans, they'll talk about Haitians.

[235] It's its own unique stew.

[236] It's really fascinating to me. I guess I was curious.

[237] I've always been curious why they speak Spanish because it was French, right?

[238] Well, they don't speak Spanish.

[239] Oh, shit.

[240] So Haiti, they speak a very unique, what's called a patois.

[241] So this is a combination of French.

[242] There is a sprinkling of Spanish.

[243] There's the Karebe Indian language that makes its way in, when you hear it, it sounds a little bit like what you would hear in New Orleans.

[244] A French -based creole.

[245] Oh.

[246] It's very unique.

[247] And what's really interesting now, you can buy audiobooks in the Haitian Creole, which I find completely fascinating.

[248] Because, look, growing up, I had this hint of a French accent and people looked at me sideways.

[249] So now that it's becoming more acknowledged and it is its own unique language.

[250] Yeah.

[251] But you don't have that anymore.

[252] No. What's shocking is he doesn't have a fucking Long Island accent.

[253] That's what shock is.

[254] It's because until I was four years old, I spoke nothing but Parisian French in the house because that's what my parents spoke.

[255] I learned English to go to school.

[256] So three years in the Bronx, then Long Island, every once in a while, the Long Island accent will creep through.

[257] But, you know, after that it was the Midwest and then the West Coast.

[258] And now you're in Seattle?

[259] Now I'm in Seattle.

[260] So just by moving, I think that's erased any trace of accents that I have.

[261] Yeah.

[262] So when you move out to Long Island, and I'd like to add at this point, your father was a machinist.

[263] Correct.

[264] And mom was a salesperson in a fine jewelry store.

[265] That's later in life.

[266] Earlier in life, she was a substitute teacher in the Catholic school that we were going to, and she continued to substitute teach while we were on Long Island.

[267] Then she transitioned to retail and worked in a variety of different jewelry stores.

[268] Yeah.

[269] So, I mean, right out of the gates, I'm assuming.

[270] I mean, then you take more after mom than dad.

[271] I have traits of both.

[272] My father worked two jobs to get enough money to buy a little house out on Long Island.

[273] So that hard work ethic I clearly get from him.

[274] Right.

[275] And then what I get from my mother is more her empathetic nature.

[276] She had to be outgoing as well to work in.

[277] A bit outgoing.

[278] But interestingly, by nature, I am not outgoing.

[279] We just learned a term for this, like mid -trovert.

[280] Oh, it's like middle of introvert.

[281] Ambivort or something like that.

[282] term.

[283] That we can't remember.

[284] I think that's a misconception that a good salesperson has to be outgoing.

[285] I think it's about the connection you make with people, and often that's small.

[286] I know, but implicit in the job is that you're going to have to interact with strangers all day.

[287] Yeah, you have to interact, but you don't have to be like, ah, look at me, or look at this, this shiny thing.

[288] Like Bob Eubanks?

[289] You connect with each person, you can find the little thing.

[290] Yeah, empathetic.

[291] Epithetic.

[292] Yeah.

[293] Epithetic.

[294] Okay.

[295] Now, had you stayed in the Bronx, you probably would have not felt other all that much, or you would have been among many people feeling other.

[296] But in Long Island, it's very white in the 60s, I'm imagining.

[297] Very much so, especially where I was.

[298] So I was literally middle of Long Island.

[299] The farm country back then was not very far away.

[300] There were not many black and brown faces when I was growing up.

[301] I did have the pleasure of looking at your senior photo.

[302] And you've got a fucking dominant friend.

[303] going.

[304] I got a big fro going.

[305] Yeah, and it's gorgeous.

[306] It's round as hell.

[307] It's tall.

[308] You were at four or five inches on that fro at that point.

[309] It was a good looking fro.

[310] Yes.

[311] I think that's the photo.

[312] I had tinted glasses or darker glasses.

[313] I had a thing going on.

[314] A lot.

[315] Yeah, and so how did that work out being the other in that situation?

[316] My approach was to find like -minded people, recognizing that I wasn't going to find other black or brown people.

[317] I found people who, were smart, who were athletic.

[318] And that interconnection, that was my tribe.

[319] The scholar athlete, that's what we'd call that.

[320] You know, that was my group of folks where we would hang out and have a number of rowdy nights.

[321] But Monday through Friday in the classroom, we were just kicking it in the classroom.

[322] Those were the friends that I fell in with.

[323] And what's ironic is after life happens and each of us go our different way, over the last four or five years, this core group of friends has reconnected.

[324] We've gone on a couple guys' trips together, and we fall right back into those high school days, even though all this time has passed.

[325] Okay, I'm wondering if you experience this.

[326] So if I am here in L .A. and I'm around my friends that I've met throughout the last 20 years, I'm not able to acknowledge or experience any of the amazing things that's happened to me because it's all relative to everyone around me and everyone's on a very similar path.

[327] My best friend and I, when he and I take trips together, I feel 12, like we were just on a trip in Florida, and I'm like, let's stay at the four seasons.

[328] And we're there as two poor 12 year old.

[329] I can experience it more and better when I'm back with my crew.

[330] Do you have that at all?

[331] What I find is that we absolutely fall back into our old patterns.

[332] And we enjoy what we've been able to accomplish.

[333] but we're very much living in those 1980s, 90s time.

[334] Where it gets pierced or where it gets broken is when we're hanging out together and invariably some gaming fan will recognize me and cautiously come up.

[335] Are you Reggie?

[336] Well, are you the Regenator?

[337] That's when my friends just start cracking up.

[338] Yeah.

[339] Because then it's like we knew him way back when.

[340] The stories we can tell you from way back then would just make you blush.

[341] Yeah, yeah.

[342] that's got to be a riot for them.

[343] Okay, so you do well in school.

[344] You go to Cornell.

[345] And when you go to Cornell, what is the goal in that moment?

[346] What's the fantasy?

[347] Where are you going with this degree ultimately?

[348] The fantasy for me is I love business.

[349] I want to be a successful businessman.

[350] What that looks like in my mind's eye is finance and banking, right?

[351] I'm good with numbers.

[352] I'm accepted into this challenging business management program at Cornell.

[353] So then how does marketing get into the fold?

[354] So marketing is one of those wonderful left turns that I tend to gravitate toward.

[355] This fantastic opportunity presented itself.

[356] So I'm a first semester senior having intern at a bank and I'm contacted by Procter & Gamble, the global package goods company whose core claim to fame is their brand management program, how they take these young people, typically from MBA schools, and teach them the foundations of how to run a business, largely with a background in marketing and brand building as the focus.

[357] That's what they do.

[358] So I'm invited to go interview for a brand management position with Procter & Gamble.

[359] Where are they located?

[360] They're located in Cincinnati, Ohio.

[361] Yeah, they are.

[362] Sincey, baby.

[363] And until then, I didn't know P &G.

[364] I didn't know brand management.

[365] I didn't think marketing really was going to be my path.

[366] Anything you bought in the last week was probably pocket right if you got tie and they just make everything they own huggies and pamper pamper's yeah probably not huggies but pambers yes charmin is theirs so yeah i mean dominant company where all of those household items that you have typically five out of ten are theirs yeah the unique element for me was as an undergrad typically undergrads aren't interviewing for these brand management roles you have to be recommended to be interviewed and to the stay i have no idea who recommended me i was just going to say How did you end up there?

[367] One of my professors, and I don't know which one, gave my name, said, this kid is pretty smart.

[368] You ought to talk to him.

[369] And it was a situation where the more I looked into it, the more I liked what this brand management program was all about.

[370] I was fortunate to be offered a position and took it.

[371] And if you look across top -tier companies, there are so many of these executives who started at P &G and brand management.

[372] I mean, Steve Bomber started.

[373] Oh, he did.

[374] P &G and brand management.

[375] There's a ton of these names where what P &G does is teach you the fundamentals of running a business.

[376] Wow.

[377] I like this because people get so telescopic in their goal and it's like, okay, that doesn't fit in.

[378] Marketing is not what I want to do.

[379] I want to do banking or finance.

[380] So I got to say no to that.

[381] But if you had said no, you never would have become what you became.

[382] It's so important to say yes to opportunities in front of you.

[383] You know, you would be like a lowly president of Goldman Sachs.

[384] Yeah, ew.

[385] So I talk about this in terms of alternate outcomes.

[386] Be open to these new different experiences that may not be exactly what you imagine yourself doing.

[387] But because of the core fundamentals, it's something you ought to be open to.

[388] So that's how I got to Nintendo.

[389] I was open to a company that I experienced as a young person, as I experienced as I experienced as a parent.

[390] It was an industry that I had a passion for, but it was not what I saw myself doing.

[391] Yeah.

[392] Okay.

[393] So I have a very similar belief as you.

[394] I generally position it as have a flexible identity because I've had an identity as an actor.

[395] I had one as a writer.

[396] I had one as a director.

[397] I have one now as a podcast.

[398] And had I been unwilling to change what I thought of myself as, I would have only gone as far as I could have gone in one of those directions.

[399] And so I, too, I'm a proponent of look at which way the river is flowing, see which way you might be able to join it, see what's working, pursue a lot of different interests, be open.

[400] Things will present themselves to you, as you point out, you maybe never even fantasized about, but we're weirdly you're calling.

[401] Understanding in the end what excites you.

[402] So for me, what excites me is pace.

[403] I love things that are moving quickly.

[404] I love challenges.

[405] I want to make myself think as I look to overcome challenges.

[406] I like doing things new and different.

[407] Writing the book was a new and different experience.

[408] But it comes from a fundamental of I like to teach.

[409] I like to train and develop others.

[410] That was always a passion of mine.

[411] And so the book is just another way to do that, but at a different scale.

[412] Was the home chaotic?

[413] My home growing up?

[414] Yeah.

[415] It wasn't chaotic.

[416] Oh, okay.

[417] Genetically, you're hardwired to thrive in high pace, high stimuli.

[418] Yeah.

[419] I like to challenge myself.

[420] Sports, right?

[421] What was your sport?

[422] Basketball.

[423] Okay.

[424] Love basketball.

[425] Still love basketball.

[426] You have the hands for it.

[427] I've noticed about 20 times that you could palm a basketball since we've been talking.

[428] I played soccer because my father loves soccer, but basketball has always been the passion.

[429] Very quick game.

[430] If I would have been three or four inches taller, my life would have been so different.

[431] Yeah.

[432] Were you the golden child?

[433] Do they have high standards for you?

[434] No. So I have an older brother who is also incredibly smart.

[435] He focused his energies being the contrarian.

[436] In the family, he was the one where if you said go left, he would go right.

[437] Firstborns, they'll do that.

[438] And firstborns, that is their nature.

[439] So, you know, for me, I got to observe him hitting his head against the wall.

[440] Yeah, so many times.

[441] He was running trial and air experiments in front of you.

[442] Exactly.

[443] It then enabled me to focus on the things that I love, the sports, the academics.

[444] But it was never my parents saying, you must do X, Y, or Z. It was all coming from inside.

[445] Okay, so when you leave Cornell, at some point you found yourself at Pizza Hut, where you launch the Bigfoot Pizza and the Big New Yorker.

[446] Wait, what's the Bigfoot pizza?

[447] Oh, my God.

[448] It's two full feet of pizza.

[449] What?

[450] It is two feet long, one feet high of pizza.

[451] A huge rectangle.

[452] It's a huge rectangle of pizza.

[453] And again, to understand this, you have to transport yourself to the early 1990s, recessionary time.

[454] People wanted to make their money stretch.

[455] And so this was the height of Little Caesars.

[456] Oh, yeah.

[457] Two pizzas for one low price was their thing, carry out only.

[458] And they were stealing share from Pizza Hut.

[459] And so we had to come up with an alternative.

[460] And ours was Bigfoot pizza.

[461] Two feet by one feet of pizza.

[462] Different dough, different sauce, I must say lower quality.

[463] dough and sauce had to be to get to the price point.

[464] What choice do you have?

[465] But we went right after Little Caesars.

[466] And it worked.

[467] And it worked.

[468] This was a billion dollar business.

[469] Wow.

[470] The Bigfoot was.

[471] Bigfoot was.

[472] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[473] We've all been there.

[474] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[475] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[476] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[477] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[478] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[479] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[480] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[481] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[482] What's up, guys?

[483] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[484] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[485] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[486] And I don't mean just friends.

[487] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel, Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[488] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[489] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[490] I want to say I was in my first year of living out of the house at 19.

[491] If I were going to get a pizza by God, I was getting a fucking two -foot pizza.

[492] Absolutely.

[493] I was the prime audience for that at the time.

[494] Yeah, make it stretch.

[495] Yeah, like when I read that, I was like, oh, you better believe I know my way around a big foot pizza.

[496] Did you have anything to do with stuffed crust?

[497] No, stuffed crust was an experiment that the company was looking at while I was there, but I wasn't involved in that launch.

[498] This is where I get to clear up a mistake.

[499] We're fact -checking a mistake in Wikipedia.

[500] Great.

[501] So the Big New Yorker.

[502] Yeah.

[503] I actually did not launch the Big New Yorker.

[504] You didn't.

[505] The crust that was in Bigfoot pizza was used in the Big New Yorker.

[506] Okay.

[507] Same as the sauce.

[508] So it was a good friend of mine, a peer of mine at the time.

[509] He was managing the New York -Northeastern region for pizza.

[510] hut.

[511] And he said, hey, this sauce and this crust really fits my consumer.

[512] Now I want to do a round pizza versus the rectangular pizza.

[513] So my job was to say that, hey, that's okay.

[514] That's an initiative that makes sense.

[515] You should go forward.

[516] So, yeah, maybe I had a small role in the big New Yorker, but I did not launch the big New Yorker.

[517] You have a lot of integrity.

[518] The many interviews I watched of you, you're always pointing out that you didn't do anything.

[519] It's always team.

[520] How long had you been a believer in the marketing strategy laid out by Clayton Christensen?

[521] Were you a late adopter to it or even at the Pizza Hut era, you were into him?

[522] I was a late adopter.

[523] I don't think Clayton's book came out during my time at Pizza Hut.

[524] I thought it came out later.

[525] But what's interesting is his core principle, which is you have to think about how to innovate in a way that plays to your own strengths versus playing to the strengths of the marketplace or what everyone else is doing.

[526] And I have to say, as a marketer, that's how I always behaved.

[527] Even back during my P &G days in the 1980s, it was always thinking about, look, what is it that we do really well?

[528] What is it that the marketplace wants?

[529] How do we innovate in a way that makes sense, but not being so linear, not being so traditional, doing something new and different?

[530] Right.

[531] The term he lays out in the book is called disruptive innovation.

[532] I would love for you to explain to us what that means and what are some of the histories and huge success stories that support disruptive innovation?

[533] The way that he talks about it is that when you innovate, you have to make a choice.

[534] You can either innovate on the traditional vectors that a particular category is known for, or you have to innovate in a different way.

[535] He talks about this.

[536] The book is titled Innovators Dilemma, because that's the dilemma, the choice you have to make and how you innovate.

[537] And really quick, if we could just maybe cement that in something practical and tangible, oh, a great example would probably be Mac and PC.

[538] Mac wasn't going to beat them in the speed race, the fastest processors.

[539] They weren't going to beat them in a lot of different categories.

[540] So they really had to pick a different lane, and they bet heavily on usability and style.

[541] Graphics appealing to artists and photographers and people who were in a creative space and having the best computer for someone who's going down that path.

[542] But an arms race with 27 different PC manufacturers was not going to work.

[543] Exactly.

[544] I have to say that core thought process really has been part of my background since the very beginning.

[545] A small example that isn't in the book because I didn't see where it led to a key lesson.

[546] But when I was at P &G, P &G had a soft drink division.

[547] They owned Hires Root Beer, the Crush Orange Sotas, and the small brand called Sundrop.

[548] Well, I was leading the Hires Root Beer business, and one of the things that we knew about our business was we pushed the edge on flavor.

[549] It was a really heavy flavor profile.

[550] And so we started playing around with making a cola, going up against Coke and Pepsi, but not directly.

[551] Ours was going to have a different flavor profile.

[552] It was going to taste different and just take a sliver of the market.

[553] So not go directly at them, but to play in the same space, but doing it differently.

[554] In movies, we call this counter -programming.

[555] So there's two tent pole blockbusters coming out on July 4th.

[556] Throw in some weird indie horror movie to give the opposite option almost.

[557] Exactly.

[558] That's the principle.

[559] It certainly was dead on to the approach that we would take at Nintendo.

[560] Yeah.

[561] Because there's no way we were going to go up against Sony or Microsoft in what it was that they were trying to do.

[562] The company had to innovate in other areas.

[563] I'm guessing here, I don't know enough about any of those three players, but I'm imagining the tech might of Sony and the tech might of Microsoft is going to far outspend what Nintendo could have done.

[564] Absolutely.

[565] You probably weren't ever going to come up with a faster, better, quote, better counsel.

[566] Correct.

[567] What the company also knew was that just because it's faster or makes prettier pictures doesn't mean it makes a better game.

[568] It's not too unparalleled to Mac.

[569] Outside observers see a lot of parallels and similarities between Nintendo and Apple, right?

[570] And the way they think about the business, the way they do what they do well and focus on doing that repeatedly and repeatedly.

[571] There are a handful of brands that people incorporate into their identity.

[572] Like, no one walks around and says, I'm a proctor and gamble person, right?

[573] You'll say I'm an Apple person.

[574] People will see, like, I'm a target shopper.

[575] Again, I'm not in the gaming space in any way.

[576] I don't play games, but I just imagine people being much more proud of being an Nintendo person than what's a Sony P2.

[577] So whether I'm at a gaming convention, whether I'm at a restaurant or when someone recognizes me from my Nintendo days, you know, to have someone pull up their shirt and show you a tattoo of a Nintendo character.

[578] Yeah.

[579] That's how passionate gamers are.

[580] And Nintendo is fortunate to have all of these great franchises that people get passionate about so passionate that they ink their body with what these characters are.

[581] The only gaming I was ever into was the very first Nintendo, and I was in seventh grade.

[582] 64?

[583] No, that was the second one.

[584] I was 64.

[585] Yeah.

[586] Well, you're 13 years younger than me. Nintendo 64 was their third system.

[587] Oh.

[588] So the first system was the original Nintendo Entertainment System.

[589] That's what I had.

[590] That was Super Mario Brothers.

[591] And then the second was the Super Nintendo Entertainment System, which was my first entry as a counterfeit, that I owned myself.

[592] And you have a certain nostalgia for it, right?

[593] Like, I still have this fantasy of me playing those games and being completely engrossed in them, despite, I know better.

[594] I'm 47.

[595] I won't be.

[596] But it's such a sweet little chunk of my life where me and my friends all played that game.

[597] So even I have this kind of nostalgic love for Nintendo.

[598] Here's what is really interesting for me. So, yes, I have this nostalgia for all of these games that I played, the very first Legend of Zelda that I played, Super Mario.

[599] other games that Nintendo did make, but that were on that system.

[600] Contra.

[601] Did you play Contra?

[602] I played Contra.

[603] Mike Tyson's Punch out.

[604] Mario Kart.

[605] Mario Kart.

[606] That was later, right?

[607] There was Super Mario Kart on the Super NES.

[608] And what I find interesting is, of course, because I was in the industry, I had access to all of these games.

[609] Yeah, yeah, of course.

[610] I would go back and play them and recognize both how hard they were at the time and how the way to play them is so different than the way you play games.

[611] today.

[612] It's completely different.

[613] It's a different paradigm.

[614] I get my butt crushed playing a game that 20 years ago, oh, this was easy for me. I had it handled, but now, because I haven't played it in so long, haven't picked up that controller, it would be pretty harsh.

[615] You know, that's what took me out, is the controllers got too complicated for me. I was like, no, that's too much.

[616] Two buttons I can handle.

[617] And it was at Nintendo 64 for me. The joystick the joystick controller.

[618] I love that.

[619] PQ.

[620] The first person games like Golden Eye, four different players on the same screen.

[621] That's where my kids started to beat me and beat me mercilessly.

[622] Yeah.

[623] Okay, Guinness.

[624] Ooh, we love Guinness.

[625] Yeah, head of marketing for Guinness.

[626] Wow.

[627] Talk about again.

[628] Now, this kind of parallels the Japanese thing, which is you are talking about a legacy brand from Ireland that defines Ireland.

[629] So what latitude do you have to do anything with the marketing of that brand?

[630] What I found so incredibly interesting is, yes, it's this quintessential Irish element to it.

[631] Given in hospitals.

[632] Given to nursing mothers because of the iron in the Guinness.

[633] But Americans, they fantasize around Ireland.

[634] They have all of this Irish imagery, plus the fact that Guinness is associated with a pub type of environment.

[635] So we played on the imagery.

[636] we leverage all of the difference in the product the way it bubbles up right when you pour it into a glass oh the pub drought can and had the little spin in the bottom the widget the widget in the bottom fucking is awesome you pop it and you hear things spin underneath and give you that frothy head you'd get at the tavern exactly was one of the hurdles like okay guys so everyone drinks it on st patrick's day and then we have a huge drop off all summer was that kind of what it was that was a big part of it right how do you get it consumed throughout the entire year yeah versus just around st patrick's day The other aspect to it was so much of beer consumption happens in the home here in the U .S. Yeah.

[637] Versus in the U .K. or in Ireland.

[638] You always stop on your way home and you can grab at least one.

[639] We needed to find a way to get Guinness consumed at home, which is where the canned draft Guinness came from.

[640] How could you deliver that pub experience in the home?

[641] Yeah.

[642] It was with that nitrogen and the widget.

[643] Yeah, because the stout in the bottle wasn't nearly as good as when you'd get it on drab.

[644] It's a completely different product.

[645] It is.

[646] Here's how things come full circle.

[647] So the bottled Guinness, huge throughout the Caribbean.

[648] And so my ability to understand that, to understand what makes it so special for that part of the population and to leverage it.

[649] So the bottled Guinness, huge consumption in Queens, New York, the Bronx, you know, parts of down south, it really had its calling against a particular population because that was the Guinness.

[650] that they were used to.

[651] The African population loved their Guinness.

[652] The extra stout.

[653] The extra stout.

[654] Oh, man. Well, look, I loved it, too.

[655] But again, you cut it with a harps.

[656] Now you got a whole other thing happening.

[657] Now, you got a half and half.

[658] You would cut it with harp and have a black half and a golden half or black and tan when you would pour it with bass ale.

[659] Oh, right.

[660] Bass.

[661] And again, so this is where you need to understand your history.

[662] Because if you go into a real Irish pub and ask for black and tan, they might throw you out.

[663] Sacrilege.

[664] The issue is black and tan has connotations of the struggles in Northern Ireland.

[665] Yeah, one's an English beer.

[666] One's a, no?

[667] It's not even that.

[668] The British military in Northern Ireland would have these tan boots.

[669] Oh.

[670] And a black outfit.

[671] So the black and tan were referred to the British when they were fighting in Northern Ireland.

[672] Okay.

[673] So some brand confusion there.

[674] This is something that I did.

[675] Whenever I joined a new business, especially a business that had a deep cultural heritage, because you have to learn about the culture.

[676] Whether it was Guinness, whether it was my time at Panda Express and really understanding Chinese food, what makes Chinese food different.

[677] How much salt can we get in this dish?

[678] I love that.

[679] How much pepper we can get into this dish.

[680] But understanding the culture, that's where in a traditional Irish pub, you could ask for a half and half.

[681] Okay.

[682] Which is done with harp, logger, and Guinness Stout.

[683] But you wouldn't ask for a black and tin.

[684] It's a thick product.

[685] It's a thack.

[686] Very thick.

[687] Although the pub drought, it's thinner than that extra stout you get in the bottle.

[688] Correct.

[689] Draft Guinness or draft Guinness in a can actually has about the same amount of calories as a light beer.

[690] Even though it tastes...

[691] It's robust.

[692] It's robust and has this heavy flavor profile.

[693] Well, we had this debate because we were in England and Dax made me get a Guinness.

[694] I'm sober, so I couldn't enjoy it.

[695] Yeah.

[696] So on his behalf.

[697] I forced her to have a Guinness.

[698] But when I was drinking it, we were comparing calories between a glass of rosé.

[699] We were.

[700] And Guinness, because I was like, well, there's no way.

[701] I feel like they were pretty comparable.

[702] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[703] Guinness would probably have less.

[704] Actually, yeah, I think that's right.

[705] Yeah.

[706] And then you didn't believe the site we were reading about the rosé, I think.

[707] Yeah, I don't believe it.

[708] Okay.

[709] So, by the way, just throw the name out of the book, Disrupting the Game.

[710] from the Bronx to the top of Nintendo.

[711] This is out of the sphere you would think conventionally.

[712] You were selling products, and then you go to VH1.

[713] Granted, shows are products, but still, maybe a little unconventional.

[714] Was it a leap of faith for you or them or both?

[715] It certainly was a leap of faith for both.

[716] I'm still really close with my hiring boss, a guy by the name of John Sykes, who had been part of the original team at MTV when MTV was born.

[717] Both Viacom companies, right?

[718] Both Viacom companies.

[719] John is a huge lover of music.

[720] He sits on the board of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and John and I had a conversation as I was interviewing.

[721] I think he saw a brand guy, and VH1 as a brand needed help.

[722] Yeah.

[723] He saw a guy who could help coalesce different points of view, as I had been doing that throughout my career.

[724] And he saw a guy who had a strong point of view and it would push different ideas forward.

[725] But it was, again, a complete left turn from what I had been doing.

[726] And this time spent in the media and entertainment business, I'm convinced was critical to set me up for the success I would have at Nintendo.

[727] But it was a left turn.

[728] Yeah.

[729] And both sides needed to believe that it would work.

[730] Yeah.

[731] I have to imagine at that time, to me, VH1 was MTV meets soft rock.

[732] Like it was a soft version of MTV.

[733] So at the time, VH1 was behind the music.

[734] Right.

[735] That was their program.

[736] So they had behind the music, they had all these great music specials, divas, and all these wonderful, wonderful events.

[737] Yeah, those were great.

[738] But what they needed was they needed what's next.

[739] They needed to figure out what they could do because at the time, I'm there and they're doing behind the music of bands that people just didn't have that same emotional connection to.

[740] That was the challenge.

[741] Yeah.

[742] Okay.

[743] So now you interview at Nintendo in 2003.

[744] During the interview, you request to speak with the president, the then president.

[745] Falsy.

[746] Pre -planned or mid -interview, you're like, fuck it, I'm going to ask for this.

[747] It was not pre -planned at all.

[748] Okay.

[749] And at this point, I had actually received the job offer.

[750] I'd already spent a day in the Redmond Washington offices of Nintendo.

[751] But at this point, I need to really be convinced because at the time, Nintendo was in trouble.

[752] Sony PS2 was dominating the marketplace.

[753] Microsoft had just launched their Xbox.

[754] Yeah.

[755] You know, Nintendo is globally in third place.

[756] Plus, the one area where Nintendo had strength was with their handheld products, right, Game Boy, Game Boy Advance.

[757] Yeah.

[758] Well, Sony had just announced that they're going to enter the handheld space with the PlayStation portable.

[759] And Nintendo was under a lot of pressure.

[760] And I needed to be convinced that I could work with the team in Japan, that this brash marketer with lots of ideas, in a strong point of view, could partner well with the leadership there.

[761] So that's why I asked for the conversation.

[762] Yeah.

[763] How do I say his name?

[764] Satura.

[765] Satura Awada.

[766] Okay.

[767] So you get this meeting and then you fall in love, right?

[768] This guy becomes your mentor.

[769] Yeah.

[770] I mean, it was a fabulous conversation.

[771] It was set up to be a half hour, goes much longer than that.

[772] I certainly saw a leader that was on a mission to drive Nintendo Ford, very unconventional driving, lots of new ideas.

[773] And I think what he saw in me was a bit of a kindred spirit.

[774] Someone who would push and push hard.

[775] Someone who had experience as a player with video games.

[776] Was he Japanese American or Japanese?

[777] No, Japanese.

[778] Okay.

[779] So this was going to be one of my kind of broad questions, but I think it now pertains to this exact situation in your story, which is, can you market something, you don't actually believe in.

[780] A lot of people do market things that they don't believe in.

[781] I don't believe you could do it effectively.

[782] I don't believe that you could actually come up with new and different ideas unless you're passionate about the business, passionate about the brand, have experience with the product.

[783] I think that's where a breakthrough happens.

[784] So was your meeting with him to determine for yourself, can I believe in this?

[785] I need to know that there are people that are running this thing that are willing to run in a direction I think will win.

[786] If not, why come here?

[787] It was to probe to make sure that I understood the strategy.

[788] I wanted to make sure that I could partner with this person to shape the strategy and then to be able to drive it throughout the global marketplace.

[789] Those were the things I needed to have confidence in.

[790] Yeah.

[791] I didn't want to go into a position where it would be, Thank you very much.

[792] You're just dealing with the Americas.

[793] We're going to do all the ideas.

[794] We're going to do everything here out of Kyoto.

[795] That kind of situation was not going to work for me. Well, I'm going to be critical.

[796] General Motors, but General Motors of 1990.

[797] I have no idea what it looks like today.

[798] But I think the workflow there seemed to be engineer driven.

[799] They would ultimately make a product.

[800] And then they would send it to marketing.

[801] And now it's marketing's job to convince America they want to buy a fucking Aztec, which no one wanted to buy an Aztec.

[802] The thing looked insane.

[803] It became, a joke in Breaking Bad.

[804] It was unsellable, right?

[805] Oh, I had a tent that popped out the back.

[806] That was a big thing.

[807] But it didn't seem like it ever worked in the opposite direction from my expert opinion as a car washer there.

[808] It should have.

[809] The marketers knew way better than anyone else what was going to sell or what the voice of the buying market was.

[810] And so it didn't seem like that info ever traveled upstream.

[811] It just seemed like they were constantly left with products they were going to have to figure out how to sell without any input.

[812] Is that a conventional problem in companies or are they increasingly more market input driven?

[813] What is that relationship?

[814] And what was it like at Nintendo?

[815] The relationship is different and different companies.

[816] And I do believe if you see less successful companies, it is because products are being developed in a silo.

[817] They're being thrown over to the commercial side.

[818] That's sales.

[819] That's marketing.

[820] And it doesn't connect with the consumer.

[821] It doesn't connect with the audience.

[822] Those are poorly run companies.

[823] And I've seen my share.

[824] Nintendo, here was the very interesting dynamic.

[825] So the games are created out of Kyoto and out of the development studios that are led by the executives in Japan.

[826] And they're all in -house.

[827] There's no vendors over there?

[828] It is all in -house.

[829] There are companies that Nintendo works with that they don't own outright, but they have an investment in.

[830] Yeah.

[831] But it is the world -class game creators out of Nintendo.

[832] Kyoto that are making all of this great content and shaping all of this great content.

[833] So make no mistake where the products are coming from, the role of myself, my teams were to do a couple things.

[834] One, we needed to influence those products to make them as broadly appealing as possible.

[835] The second thing we needed to do is once the products were final, we had to come up with the unique disruptive ideas of how to bring them to the marketplace, how to market.

[836] them in a way that consumers would love again that's where at times there would be conflict with the creators uh -huh but this is where with a track record of success you're able to push ideas through i would imagine the creators have their own explanation for why certain games work and others don't and they may or may not be correct in that was part of your job to distill why this game worked so much to let them know the reason this game that you've created which is brilliant is so successful is because of X, Y, and Z. So if that's a DNA you could transport into the other games, I think it would behoove everyone.

[837] I have to say the game creators themselves typically know what's great about a game.

[838] Their blind spot is at times what's not working or how things need to be shifted and adapted to make them work.

[839] Here's a great example.

[840] Amongst all of the different franchises that I love from Nintendo, there's a franchise called Metroid.

[841] The protagonist is this female bounty hunter called Samus Iran.

[842] It's a fantastic franchise deep in lore.

[843] Well, there's a game that was launched while I was at Nintendo called Metroid OtherM that I was convinced was going to be huge and breakthrough.

[844] It would have the same cultural impact of Halo, right, here in our marketplace.

[845] And the game didn't work.

[846] And I personally spent time really.

[847] being thoughtful and playing the game and found myself in a global business meeting where we were talking about this game and why it didn't work.

[848] All of the executives from Nintendo, the senior developers are there.

[849] And I get asked by Satura Awada, why don't you think this game worked?

[850] And I was put on the spot and said that the unfortunate thing about this game, even though the way you played is a lot of fun, the unfortunate thing is that it took too long to get into the fun aspects of the game, meaning the first 10 hours you played were a bit dull.

[851] They just did not draw you in.

[852] This is like too long of a first act in movies.

[853] And I had to say this in front of all of these people.

[854] And I did say it in front of all these people.

[855] Luckily, after the fact that creator of the game came up to me and said, it's a really good point.

[856] And it's something that we didn't see.

[857] We wanted to move all the set pieces and get everything ready for the final rush of the game.

[858] And we didn't see this problem.

[859] They wanted to top themselves every level.

[860] We wanted to be rewarding and all these things.

[861] I'm sure there's a great principle behind why they mapped it out that way.

[862] I'm sure there was.

[863] Yeah.

[864] That is really interesting.

[865] There is just some cultural differences that might be harder for them to see just being in a different country.

[866] I think this is probably universal at this point, but our attention spans here are tiny now.

[867] I don't know how that translates to Japan, but it might not be the same there.

[868] And so if you're like, no, you got to get to the interesting part, because you've got to get people's attention fast now.

[869] Here, you're competing with TikTok and X, Y, Z. Yeah, we have a lot of options.

[870] Sometimes that's not the same in all countries.

[871] I think the other piece, too, is when you're a creator, it's difficult to look at your creation critically.

[872] Objectively, yeah.

[873] Objectively, and really step back and say, well, you know, this really isn't working.

[874] It's only the best creators that have the ability to be that critical with the content that they're making.

[875] Yeah.

[876] Okay, knowing nothing about, the space.

[877] So Nintendo's doing all of their content in -house or with a very finite amount of companies they've invested in versus isn't Xbox in Sony using a ton of different vendors?

[878] Like, isn't everyone allowed to make games on their platform?

[879] Historically, Sony and Microsoft would rely on the big independent developers to make content for their systems.

[880] So these are companies like EA and Activision.

[881] What's interesting is over the last, I would say, five years.

[882] both Sony and Microsoft have been buying independent developers, bringing them in -house.

[883] I do think in part because they've seen the effectiveness of this model and having people who really understand the hardware that they're developing on and can create franchises that pay dividends long term for the parent company versus simply relying on what in the industry is called third -party developers to create content for your platform.

[884] Okay, but I could see that as a real handicap in this space.

[885] If you're only developing ideas from three different companies or one in -house company versus the marketplace, that's why they get call of duty and all these other things.

[886] So to me, I would feel like if I were in your role, I'd be like, we're really limited by this choice.

[887] Now, whether there's integrity behind it or there's some uniformity to the brand or other upsides, to me, that would feel like a real.

[888] hard thing to compete against.

[889] Because a game itself could make the council big, right?

[890] Oh, absolutely.

[891] So in the end, what Nintendo needed to figure out was, yes, having great content that the company themselves would create and leverage in their key franchises, Mario, Mario, Kart, Zelda, all of these great franchises.

[892] But then they needed to have the tools for these great independent companies to create content for their platform.

[893] That was the key.

[894] And having tools that not only an EA or an Activision could use, but there are a ton of these independent developers.

[895] So these are smaller companies making really unique content.

[896] Games like Rocket League and all of these games that really can hit at a point in popular culture, Nintendo needed to find a way to cultivate all of these great developers, which they did.

[897] How'd they do that?

[898] Now we're getting deep in the weeds, but there's a tool set called Unreal, Unreal Engine, That makes a host of different games.

[899] But for years, Nintendo systems, you couldn't develop games on Unreal.

[900] Again, this is Mac and PC.

[901] Exactly.

[902] Yeah, you couldn't write programs for Mac.

[903] And so Nintendo figured out that in order to have great content coming on its system, it needed to have Unreal as a development platform be compatible with its system.

[904] When did that happen?

[905] The big breakthrough happened for the Nintendo Switch.

[906] Oh, no kidding.

[907] Which is why the Nintendo Switch is doing so why.

[908] Well, and also that sounds like the perfect confluence of a new hardware, which was innovative, and now the world opens up for content as well.

[909] That's exactly right.

[910] Okay.

[911] Wow.

[912] We're learning so much about Nintendo.

[913] I know.

[914] I love it.

[915] It's interesting.

[916] So within three years there, they made you the president and the chief operating officer.

[917] And then under your tutelage, you brought out the Wii, the Switch, and the Nintendo.

[918] Nintendo DS was launched just before.

[919] before I was made president.

[920] We also launched a Nintendo 3DS.

[921] So all of those platforms did very, very well.

[922] We also launched a platform called the Wii U, which did not do as well.

[923] And, you know, again, when you're putting forth really different ideas trying to constantly disrupt, sometimes it failed.

[924] And that one failed.

[925] Where were you market share against those people when you started and where did you end?

[926] Was it a net win?

[927] Because they got big.

[928] They did some great shit.

[929] Everyone else got big.

[930] So I would say this, roughly when I joined Nintendo.

[931] Nintendo globally was about a $3 billion in revenue business.

[932] When I left Nintendo, we were $15 billion on a track to $20.

[933] Wow.

[934] So a nice trajectory.

[935] Yeah.

[936] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[937] So I was very shocked to learn that this certain game.

[938] Arnett played it religiously.

[939] A bunch of my friends played it.

[940] Animal Crossing?

[941] No, no. It was like a Civil War shootout and then there was all different iterations.

[942] Call of Duty.

[943] Was it Call of Duty?

[944] I think it might have been Call of Duty.

[945] I learned at one point Call of Duty was bigger than any other intellectual entertainment property at that time.

[946] So it was bigger than Titanic.

[947] It was bigger than Avatar.

[948] Could you just lay out the scope?

[949] Gaming's the biggest entertainment product and buy a lot.

[950] The gaming industry today is a $200 billion.

[951] industry.

[952] So to put that in perspective, I think movie box office last year was less than 10.

[953] Less than 10.

[954] And even look at it like a Warner Brothers that has television.

[955] They have all these different avenues there.

[956] And I want to say some years 12 billion or something.

[957] I don't know, maybe less.

[958] Gaming by far is the biggest form of entertainment.

[959] Another way to think about it is global population is about 8 billion people, roughly.

[960] Three billion people.

[961] people play video games.

[962] Oh, my God, more than one third.

[963] That's crazy.

[964] That's bonkers.

[965] And, God, yeah, there's so much money in it and so much in the games.

[966] Are they the biggest winners in the space?

[967] The games themselves drive the profitability.

[968] So that's where the companies make money.

[969] Companies like Nintendo will make a small amount of money or break even on the hardware.

[970] The council, yeah.

[971] Profit comes from the software, the software and the server.

[972] Right.

[973] Yeah, because you buy that thing and you're going to hold on to it for however many years.

[974] You typically buy one.

[975] Yeah.

[976] A product like the Nintendo Switch, you might have two in the household or three, depending on how many kids you have and things of that nature.

[977] But the games, you'll buy five or six games a year.

[978] You'll constantly be buying games.

[979] Yeah.

[980] Wow.

[981] Okay.

[982] Now, I find myself in this situation.

[983] So my wife and I are founders of a diaper company.

[984] And what is an incredible challenge of that is your consumer ages out of it really quickly.

[985] They're only in that space for a finite amount of time when they have a newborn and then maybe up until they get out of diapers, right?

[986] And then so the goal is to either carry them onward into other products and grow with their child, which is the goal.

[987] But I think you were in a similar situation with Nintendo, which is who you're trying to capture is turning over so fast.

[988] It's not like you fall in love with Heinz ketchup at 17 years old.

[989] You're going to fucking eat it until you're 90.

[990] There's no more work to be done.

[991] I'm going to hold you forever.

[992] This is not like that.

[993] Well, actually, it is now.

[994] Oh, it is.

[995] When I joined the industry, it very much was that the bulk of the video gaming public was, say, 12 to 24.

[996] Well, guess what happens?

[997] When people play video games and they find franchises they love, they find systems they love, they continue playing games.

[998] And then, you know, a little device called the portable phone with the ability to play games on your phone wherever you go.

[999] So now people are playing a ton of games.

[1000] Average player today in the video game industry is in their 30s.

[1001] Wow.

[1002] That's the average.

[1003] Wow.

[1004] So it used to be a situation where people would age out, not anymore.

[1005] People are continuing to play video games, which is why it's this $200 billion industry.

[1006] And why, as a marketing executive, it's constantly trying to find ways to speak to that consumer, get them to play a game or get them to play a game with their kids, that was part of the mission over the last number of years.

[1007] The demographics of gaming, have they evolved?

[1008] Where are they at?

[1009] Are they representative of the general population?

[1010] Are they inordinately high in some categories?

[1011] Everyone plays it equally, pretty much?

[1012] It's pretty balanced.

[1013] Male, female, balanced.

[1014] And again, that's different than the way it was a number of years ago.

[1015] If you look at the data ethnically, if anything, non -white populations play more video games than Caucasian populations.

[1016] But broadly speaking, it is just a huge group of the population.

[1017] Yeah, if you're the one in three globally, what are you really narrowing it down?

[1018] And the thing is, you're not only playing video games, you're watching video game content on TV, you're doing podcasts on video games.

[1019] I mean, it is massive.

[1020] This is the part where I just, I can't even relate.

[1021] So I had loved playing video games.

[1022] That part I get.

[1023] I remember the worst part of playing video games was having to look over your buddy's shoulders as they played and you waited for your turn.

[1024] So the notion that people like watching other people play is so abstract to me. And that there are gaming athletes that are making $15, $20 million a year is insane to me. That whole world is fascinating.

[1025] And there's arena shows for these tournaments, right?

[1026] There are competitive events that literally have hundreds of thousands of people physically watching.

[1027] Like a NASCAR race in the 90s.

[1028] It's massive.

[1029] Watching other people play.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] Their favorite player.

[1032] There's one particular franchise called Dota, where these championships, these world championships are just massive.

[1033] One of the kids has a crazy name.

[1034] He won last year.

[1035] My brother's obsessed with them.

[1036] He made like $35 million playing video games that year.

[1037] Rabbit Kid or Jojo something.

[1038] What's interesting is just like any other athlete, you have these athletes that are in their prime, and then they themselves age out because there's that younger player that's just a little bit faster than you are, can make snap decisions, and these athletes age out.

[1039] Wow, mentally.

[1040] Mentally, skill -wise.

[1041] I mean, it is like physical sports in that regard.

[1042] And there's training, they watch what they eat and everything else.

[1043] Just e -sports is a billion -dollar industry today.

[1044] Goodness.

[1045] So that's what we're talking about.

[1046] Wow.

[1047] Wow, wow, wow.

[1048] Okay.

[1049] Now, I want to know what it's like to have been in something that's pretty esoteric up until really probably social media, where the term brand is ubiquitous.

[1050] It's in the zeitgeist.

[1051] People seem to understand what that means.

[1052] When before, no one ever used that word.

[1053] No one had any concept of what branding was or what bolstering a brand, the value of a brand.

[1054] None of that was in popular culture.

[1055] And it's all happened, I guess, as a result of social media, because you're watching individuals learn how to brand themselves, the Kardashians.

[1056] You're thinking of humans as brands.

[1057] For you, was it like, well, this is so weird.

[1058] My little niche interest is now kind of this global phenomenon.

[1059] Was that a curious evolution?

[1060] What I always found interesting is that people were reacting to brands.

[1061] The way you react to a BMW versus a Mercedes versus a Jaguar, they all take you places, right?

[1062] They're all high -end imported cars, but you reacted to them differently.

[1063] That's the power of branding.

[1064] Oh, I'm from Detroit.

[1065] You ask any person on the sidewalk, are you a Chevy man, a Ford man, or a Mopar man, they're going to have an answer.

[1066] Absolutely.

[1067] I mean, even Marlboro, the cowboy out on the wilderness.

[1068] That's branding.

[1069] Because it's tobacco, folks.

[1070] It's tobacco and a filter.

[1071] Yeah, there's no difference.

[1072] And I was a camel icon.

[1073] I would have killed over that.

[1074] So branding really has been around with the advent of any types of products.

[1075] But I do think what is different today is people talk about it in a way that is different.

[1076] They talk about it with a sense of intention and almost, too much intention versus back in the day, great marketers were pulling on your emotions, but doing it in a way that was so subtle and so kind of behind the scenes versus there's an upfrontness today around branding and marketing, which I personally do find very, very interesting.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] It is because every person is potentially a brand now that has made it so bizarre.

[1079] Well, I've pointed out that I think social media is the inevitable result of capital.

[1080] capitalism, which is ultimately everyone themselves will be a product.

[1081] And so social media has made us a product.

[1082] Here's my page.

[1083] This is my life.

[1084] That's the product.

[1085] It's curated.

[1086] It's intentional.

[1087] It finally got to us.

[1088] I say that without any moral judgment of it.

[1089] It's an observation.

[1090] I think it's the end result of capitalism.

[1091] In fairness, I'm active in a couple areas of social media.

[1092] But you joined Twitter in like 2016 or something.

[1093] I joined Twitter right when I retired at 2019 because until then I was on a lot of social media, but I was on there as an executive of Nintendo.

[1094] This was my opportunity to step out as my own brand.

[1095] But what I find interesting about that is there are people that we are interested in that we want to follow.

[1096] We want to learn more about.

[1097] And the juxtaposition there versus, for example, me, there are parts of my life that I hold incredibly private.

[1098] And so how do you balance that?

[1099] Your involvement in MSN.

[1100] What is it?

[1101] Adrenicone?

[1102] S &M, but is BDM?

[1103] Oh, BDSM.

[1104] BDSM.

[1105] Your involvement in certain BDSM communities, you want to keep that private.

[1106] I'm not sure if you're talking about the right Reggie there.

[1107] But just as an example, I'm active on Twitter.

[1108] and my social profile is there.

[1109] I'm not active on Facebook.

[1110] That's where I share information in a private group with family and friends.

[1111] It's different.

[1112] Yep, I agree.

[1113] I never was drawn to Facebook.

[1114] I did like Twitter for a period.

[1115] I quit that because it made me upset every time I went on it.

[1116] I love Instagram.

[1117] For me, that's it.

[1118] Just show me what you're doing.

[1119] Just show me a picture of what you're up to.

[1120] I prefer that.

[1121] And I recognize it's the very best moment of that week.

[1122] I can weed through the marketing.

[1123] Okay, so in your book, there's certain things that you are going to try to pass on to somebody obviously when you write a book like this there's some call to action i also need to mention it's really relevant actually that when you retired in 2019 you went back to cornell and you are very heavily involved at cornell you have different roles there so what in this book do you hope to pass on i've been fortunate to train and develop a lot of leaders throughout my career what i am looking to do now is more of that but just at scale right which is why i wrote the book and why i wrote the book in the manner that I did.

[1124] I tell certain stories and always punctuate the story with what I call the so what.

[1125] Here's the reason I'm telling the story.

[1126] Here's the so what that you should take away and what you could hopefully apply to your own life.

[1127] So it is with this thought of sharing lessons, lessons that I may have learned painfully that I'm now trying to help the reader learn from my own pathways, my own mistakes, my own accomplishments that they can hopefully take away from.

[1128] And it's everything from the positives of being open to alternatives, as we were talking about earlier.

[1129] It's also about the negatives.

[1130] What do you do when you've got a bad boss?

[1131] What do you do when you're in a bad situation and you need to navigate your way out of it?

[1132] And you personally can speak on overcoming negative perceptions, preconceived notions of who you are, dealing with some racism, I'm sure, that was embedded in a lot of these places.

[1133] Absolutely.

[1134] All of these key lessons are what I'm hoping to share in the book.

[1135] And to give the reader the benefit of that experience.

[1136] Yeah, some of your tenants are grit, perseverance, resilience.

[1137] I do wonder, and you must too, as there's a younger generation, there's many younger generations behind you, and there's a changing ethos, as is often appropriate.

[1138] It evolves quickly, right?

[1139] Here's my fear, and it's because I'm getting old.

[1140] Sometimes I observe younger folks that enter the workplace, and again, I'm going to make a lot of people, man. There seems to be a little sense of entitlement as they enter.

[1141] And part of me is curious.

[1142] Can that work in the modern marketplace and workforce or will we ever get past no you need fucking grit perseverance dependability accountability if you observe that at all or is that just us getting old i don't know it could be both of us getting well we do know that people don't hold jobs the way they used to they are generally going to have 10 employers before their ex age whereas people used to start at GM in the fucking mailroom or janitorial and they'd end up as a CEO that model's gone so in that way i totally understand why it's evolved you don't really have the loyalty you used to have and so you are trading up all the time.

[1143] It's a different space.

[1144] It is very much a different space, but this is why I go back to Cornell.

[1145] This is why I go back to that neighborhood in the Bronx where I spent the first eight years of my life.

[1146] I go back and I share that, look, you may have a great idea in the back of your head, but you need to go early in your career, learn some fundamentals, learn some key principles, learn how are you going to bring that key idea out?

[1147] When I go spend time with kids in the Bronx, they look at me and they see someone, oh, you must have been successful all your life.

[1148] No, right?

[1149] We all face hardships.

[1150] We all face situations that we need to overcome.

[1151] And these core principles, these core lessons are going to be critical for your long -term success, whatever it is that you do, whether it's to go be in business, whether it's to go be a teacher, whether it's to go be a mechanic.

[1152] It doesn't matter what you do.

[1153] What matters is how you go about getting that done and having a mentality of working hard, driving yourself forward.

[1154] It's the truthfulness with which you have relationships.

[1155] These are all of the things that I believe are just so critically important.

[1156] Yeah, to me, I'm most interested in people who execute.

[1157] If you learn to execute, you don't need to hype yourself.

[1158] You don't need to monitor everyone else.

[1159] You don't have to evaluate yourself next to everyone else.

[1160] If you execute and you execute ahead of schedule and a little better than was asked for.

[1161] That won't go unobserved.

[1162] It just, it doesn't.

[1163] It's what everyone's striving to find as an employer.

[1164] I completely agree.

[1165] And this is another one of the themes that I talk about.

[1166] Sometimes you have to lead and be out there pushing forward on something.

[1167] Other times, you just need to execute with excellence.

[1168] You need to take an idea that's been handed to you and execute the hell out of it and make it as perfect as it can be.

[1169] That's your role at the time.

[1170] You have to build a reputation every time you go somewhere new.

[1171] There is a moment where I need to know I can trust you.

[1172] And once someone can trust you, then I think the sky is the limit.

[1173] Yeah, I would agree with that.

[1174] Well, Reggie, hard name for me. It's hyphenated, but Fisemae?

[1175] Fisemae, yes.

[1176] Fisome.

[1177] Fisemae.

[1178] Not spelled Fisemae.

[1179] Yeah, good job.

[1180] Thank you.

[1181] You have to look at it phonetically or not look at it at all as you try and pronounce it.

[1182] Yeah, if I pronounce it phonetically, I'd say Phil's Amy.

[1183] Throughout grade school, I was Phil's Ame.

[1184] It was in college and I put my foot down and it's Fisime.

[1185] And it's only been recently that I've demanded that accent aigu on the E in my last name be there.

[1186] Yeah.

[1187] Because that was also forgotten, right?

[1188] A hyphen and...

[1189] A hyphen and accent deegu.

[1190] Slow down on all the characters here.

[1191] So now I'm demanding that people pronounce my name correctly and it's spelled properly.

[1192] He was lovingly regarded as the Regenator at some period by gamers.

[1193] We love nicknames.

[1194] Megalus.

[1195] Yes.

[1196] Minichermas.

[1197] Wob.

[1198] here goes by the real name.

[1199] So Reggie, what a pleasure to talk to you.

[1200] I hope everyone checks out disrupting the game from the Bronx to the top of Nintendo.

[1201] And it is currently out.

[1202] So please check it out.

[1203] So much fun having you as a guest, such a world we know nothing about.

[1204] So it was a pleasure.

[1205] Absolutely.

[1206] Thank you.

[1207] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1208] Okay.

[1209] Um, how's your weekend?

[1210] It was great because it was a race weekend.

[1211] Yeah.

[1212] know how much I love those race weekends.

[1213] They're fun.

[1214] They make me so optimistic because I have these cycles on a weekend.

[1215] Do you?

[1216] It's like Friday comes.

[1217] I'm excited.

[1218] Saturday.

[1219] I'm excited, but I'm almost nervous.

[1220] It's already Saturday.

[1221] Like, oh, it's Saturday.

[1222] You know what I'm saying?

[1223] And then Sunday you're like, yeah, and Sunday you're like, well, those things gone.

[1224] Sunday Scaries.

[1225] Sunday Scaries.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] I love that Friday, I'm like, okay, Friday will be the day that I exercise during practice one and two.

[1228] I'm distracted.

[1229] The workout takes two hours because it's so much practice.

[1230] And then Saturday I wake up, and especially this Saturday was Charlie's on his way over.

[1231] We're going to watch practice three and do just legs, six different very hard -hitting leg exercises.

[1232] I posted it.

[1233] I showed you a video.

[1234] We made a very homoerotic video.

[1235] And that's a 10.

[1236] And so when that ends, I'm like, fuck, it can't get better than that.

[1237] We just pumped and watched practice three.

[1238] And then I go, qualifying is next.

[1239] We go down into the basement.

[1240] We watch it on the big screen.

[1241] and that's an incredible party.

[1242] It ends and I immediately get sad.

[1243] I go, oh, fuck, it's over.

[1244] And then I go, the race is tomorrow.

[1245] And now I'm super excited for it to be Sunday.

[1246] Sunday scleries are a real thing.

[1247] People, um...

[1248] They die from it.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] Do you think there's another sport?

[1252] Like, I don't know what other sport where it's like, it's a three -day event.

[1253] And it just keeps increasing in its excitement.

[1254] Like, it's not like you watch them practice a football game on Friday and then run some scrimmages on Saturday or whatever.

[1255] They'd have no importance anyways.

[1256] Yeah.

[1257] And then there's the game.

[1258] But this is like, they milk three.

[1259] I guess tennis.

[1260] Doesn't tennis have...

[1261] Well, it goes on for days.

[1262] Tennis has days.

[1263] That's true.

[1264] Golf is long.

[1265] Oh, God, is it long?

[1266] Yeah, too long for me. Maybe that's what I should get into because I guess that too is increasing.

[1267] It's like, it starts on Friday and you're like, oh, fun, I get to watch golf.

[1268] You can get into golf?

[1269] I know.

[1270] Who are you?

[1271] I don't know.

[1272] Now then I don't have a bunch of caffeine.

[1273] don't know who I am.

[1274] I'm trying to figure that out.

[1275] But yeah, I guess maybe on Friday you're like, oh, I'm watching a bunch of bozos playing like the bottom of the bracket.

[1276] I don't even know how that's how golf works.

[1277] Yeah, good job.

[1278] There's more than just Formula One.

[1279] I keep trying to, I spend half of my sessions in therapy trying to convince my therapist to get into Formula One.

[1280] Okay, that doesn't seem like a great use of the hour, but I'm not going to tell you what to do in there.

[1281] I should be employed by Formula One, because I talk about it so much.

[1282] It's like Top Gun and Formula One, I should And it was incredible.

[1283] I loved it.

[1284] Everyone was right.

[1285] The hype was real.

[1286] I'll tell the whole story.

[1287] Okay, great.

[1288] Yeah, it's a good one.

[1289] So last Monday, I was at Mess Hall with Jess.

[1290] And we have a armcherry friend who works at Mess Hall.

[1291] Who I love.

[1292] He's from Michigan.

[1293] He's awesome.

[1294] We love him.

[1295] Pack, who is the one I discovered through some investigation was sending me the very cute notes when I got delivery from there.

[1296] So nice.

[1297] Yes.

[1298] He loves Top Gun, and he's been talking to us about how much he loves it, and we hadn't seen him in a bit, and then we saw him on Monday, and I asked him, how many times have you seen it now?

[1299] And he said five.

[1300] Oh, my God.

[1301] He had seen it five times in the theater.

[1302] Oh, my gosh.

[1303] And we were so impressed, and then he said, well, part of it is because I had to get in another time in IMAX because Wednesday is going to be the last day that it's an IMAX.

[1304] And Jess and I panicked because we've been told we have to see it in IMAX.

[1305] And we were like, oh, fuck.

[1306] Like, how are we going to see it?

[1307] Do we have time?

[1308] We can't do tomorrow.

[1309] You fucked up.

[1310] Really, if we're going to be honest, we were like, I don't really know.

[1311] That it's out on Wednesday?

[1312] Yeah, we were like, because he told us the reason is because Jurassic Park is coming in and it's going to take over all the IMAX theaters.

[1313] And we were like, yeah, but I mean, I'm sure at least one theater will still have it.

[1314] And boy, was he right?

[1315] We immediately looked all gone starting Thursday.

[1316] That's a travesty.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] No shade on the dinosaur movie, but that's a travesty.

[1319] We were like, we're going to have to go Wednesday night.

[1320] That was the only option for us.

[1321] There was a 915 at Man's Chinese.

[1322] And we go to Muso and Franks before for dinner.

[1323] Quick dinner, real quick dinner.

[1324] So nostalgic.

[1325] It was stuff when I had never been there.

[1326] It was really cute.

[1327] It's like being an old dining car on a train or something, isn't it?

[1328] It smells dusty in there, but it's fun.

[1329] Yeah, it has a, it has a couch used to eat there.

[1330] That's why I like it, yeah.

[1331] Yeah, it feels like there are ghosts there.

[1332] There are.

[1333] Happy ghosts.

[1334] Alcoholic ghost.

[1335] There's a hard drinking bar, Muso and France.

[1336] Well, then they probably weren't happy, but that's okay.

[1337] Well, momentarily until the sobriety hit him.

[1338] So one quick aside, I want to say, because this is something that just does that I appreciate so much.

[1339] And it's because he's a server, an incredible, the best one.

[1340] He's so hyper aware, like I paid.

[1341] Mm -hmm.

[1342] And the server gave the check to.

[1343] to Jess.

[1344] And this happens all the time.

[1345] He says it's so common for service to just put it in front of the man. Of course.

[1346] What's his, what's his hack?

[1347] Just put it in the middle of the table?

[1348] You just set it down in the middle.

[1349] Someone will take it.

[1350] And then he looks at the name.

[1351] Sure.

[1352] And we'll say, like, come back and say, like, Miss Padman.

[1353] Uh -huh.

[1354] With the check.

[1355] But most people don't.

[1356] They'll just come back and put it back in front of the man. Okay.

[1357] So this server, or put our check in front of the gentleman.

[1358] Jess and he, you know, he was like, already triggered.

[1359] Yep, he was triggered.

[1360] He was annoyed.

[1361] I was all right, it's fine.

[1362] And then I put my card in, whatever.

[1363] He takes it.

[1364] He comes back.

[1365] He says, here you go, sir.

[1366] And he said, it's her, bro.

[1367] Oh, wow.

[1368] He snapped.

[1369] Yeah, but it was, it was.

[1370] He needed it.

[1371] How are you going to break that cycle unless someone says, like, she paid, he said, she is the rich one here.

[1372] Anyway, but that's a side note.

[1373] I really, I like, I like.

[1374] I like.

[1375] that i like that yeah so anyway we rush over to may there's one other funny side note is this dude's from michigan pack and he happened to say the exact same thing i had said he did i thought that was a funny part of the story he said he said i think this is going to bring back movies right he said that before you had before he heard you say yes right right right so you guys were on the same yeah yeah so you go there to the movies so we run the movies this is very scary it's a very scary night in Hollywood.

[1376] There's this life -size Chucky, who was I hated him.

[1377] I think he was a bad omen.

[1378] For people don't know, Hollywood Boulevard where the Man Chinese is, and just to give some historic reference, Man Chinese is the theater that has all the footprints and the hamprints of the famous movie stars.

[1379] In front of it is a whole gaggle of different famous IP.

[1380] Superheroes, Cowboys, I'm now learning Chuckie.

[1381] Yes.

[1382] Liz.

[1383] Liz was definitely out of it.

[1384] that night for sure for sure but also because another great cultural touchstone to know what it's really like there is pretty woman that's the scene like it is it's a mess a mess yeah yeah yeah yeah i see all these people on vacation like tourists and they get their little kids with them it's like it's quite it's like walking um reminds me of um this terrible case of these navy people that would make women run the gauntlet and there was a big case and they'd have to go down this hallway and all these terrible people would squeeze them.

[1385] It's virtually a gauntlet.

[1386] You're running a gauntlet.

[1387] Yeah, it is.

[1388] It's like you're in a fun house circuit.

[1389] Yes.

[1390] It's like the acid trip version of these characters you've loved in movies who are now heavily intoxicated and interacting with children.

[1391] Yeah.

[1392] And they fight each other all the time.

[1393] It's always in the news.

[1394] Like, I think a Batman stabbed Superman.

[1395] Oh, my God.

[1396] Yeah.

[1397] It's embarrassing because tourists do go as part of the thing to check off the list.

[1398] I'm like, this isn't a good representation.

[1399] And you see the Spider -Man kind of.

[1400] costume, you're like, oh, that's a friendly face.

[1401] He's a nice little boy who got bit by a spider.

[1402] He's a collegiate.

[1403] He's a studious.

[1404] And no, the guy's on meth.

[1405] He hasn't been to bed in two days.

[1406] He stabbed Batman last week.

[1407] There's got to be some of our masturbating inside the costume.

[1408] I'm speculating now.

[1409] That's least of my worries.

[1410] Okay.

[1411] Okay.

[1412] There's Chuckie putting spells on people.

[1413] Anyway, and I forgot a part.

[1414] Okay.

[1415] So when we're leaving Mass Hall and he's saying it, we're panicked and we're looking.

[1416] for Wednesday night.

[1417] Okay, 915.

[1418] Okay, it's IMAX.

[1419] It says four max.

[1420] Great.

[1421] That's some sort of max.

[1422] Buy the tickets done.

[1423] We go.

[1424] We get into the theater.

[1425] So Franks, we're on the gauntlet and you're in there.

[1426] And then we get there.

[1427] We notice the seats are really nice.

[1428] They're like your armchair.

[1429] They're beautiful.

[1430] We're excited.

[1431] And then we sit and, you know, we go to like recline.

[1432] And you can't, which is odd because most of the nice chairs do.

[1433] So they're stiff, but big and large.

[1434] We're like, okay.

[1435] PQ.

[1436] Stiff and big and large.

[1437] A sign comes up on the screen saying, please make sure to keep your feet on the bar as the seats will be moving.

[1438] Whoa.

[1439] We were like, oh, no, what is this?

[1440] Oh, wow.

[1441] Just was like, oh, no, this is a ride.

[1442] And we were like, Like, okay, but it's still, like, maybe that's cool.

[1443] I want to do it, even despite this story.

[1444] I want to go.

[1445] I want to go.

[1446] And then immediately there's a strobe light situation that happens quickly.

[1447] We're like, oh, my God, okay.

[1448] And we're just kind of whipping our heads back and forth at each other.

[1449] Like, every time something new happens.

[1450] And his face, I just, I have not laughed that hard in so long.

[1451] You know, the movie starts and all of a sudden it's like, they're electrocuting you.

[1452] Yes.

[1453] We're in an electric chair, and then it's like tilting back and forth.

[1454] Oh, my God.

[1455] I would love this.

[1456] It was horrible.

[1457] And Jess is just banging around on the seat to try to turn it off, even though there's no way to turn it off.

[1458] He said, well, maybe it'll ease up.

[1459] Maybe they just wanted to, like, give us a shock at first.

[1460] A little wow.

[1461] Yeah, pre -finali.

[1462] Wow factor.

[1463] And then no. It's continuing any moment they can give us that with a motorcycle, like it's that.

[1464] Oh, it's that.

[1465] Vibrating?

[1466] Mm -hmm.

[1467] Oh, my gosh.

[1468] And so I'm just laughing.

[1469] I'm missing the movie because I, all I'm doing is lap.

[1470] Yes.

[1471] Were you a little tipsy from Muso and Franks?

[1472] Do you have like a little bell?

[1473] I have a martini.

[1474] So maybe, but not really.

[1475] A three.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] And then we look over and a few seats down two gentlemen get in an altercation.

[1478] They start screaming at each other.

[1479] I think one person fell asleep and his leg got on another person.

[1480] That person got.

[1481] They got jarred to sleep.

[1482] You don't hear that often.

[1483] Exactly.

[1484] How could you possibly sleep?

[1485] You can't.

[1486] Okay.

[1487] So that person has a disorder, a sleep disorder.

[1488] And was probably self -conscious about that.

[1489] So started screaming when the guy tried to wake him up.

[1490] And then they have - Narcolepsy.

[1491] Now he's picking on someone with a handicap.

[1492] Yeah, he's punching down.

[1493] Yeah, punching down.

[1494] Yeah.

[1495] They're screaming.

[1496] And like, everyone is just staring at them because it's loud.

[1497] And at this point, I'm like, ooh, I'm not comfortable anymore.

[1498] It was funny for a little bit.

[1499] And this is the type of situation that I feel like is going to escalate.

[1500] I don't like it.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] But I don't say anything yet.

[1503] But then I see one of the people in the altercation gets up and leaves.

[1504] And I was like, what if that person is going to get a weapon?

[1505] Yeah.

[1506] So then I just looked at Jess and I said, should we leave?

[1507] And he said yes.

[1508] So we left and as we were leaving, cops came in the theater.

[1509] So that was that was a bad experience.

[1510] Right.

[1511] Right.

[1512] Boy, just cued one of my memories of a fight story.

[1513] Okay.

[1514] I used to go when I was an unemployed actor all the time in Santa Monica, do a midday movie.

[1515] Why not?

[1516] It was way cheaper.

[1517] I'd go to the AMC 7 on the promenade.

[1518] And there were like two characters in Santa Monica at the time.

[1519] And Scotty and Bree and I always called them the cowboys.

[1520] There are these two homeless dudes, but they were full on cowboys.

[1521] Okay.

[1522] They wore like bandanas around their neck.

[1523] They had cowboy boots.

[1524] They had hats.

[1525] And they had this German Shepherd.

[1526] They were always walking around.

[1527] And so they were kind of.

[1528] like, what would you call a landmark of Santa Monica?

[1529] The cowboy homeless guys.

[1530] Uh -huh.

[1531] So unbeknownst to me, they were in the movie theater, right?

[1532] So I'm in midday watching some movie.

[1533] It's only 15 minutes in.

[1534] And all a sudden, you hear something break.

[1535] Uh -oh.

[1536] And then you hear him start arguing.

[1537] And then I can immediately smell whiskey.

[1538] So they've got a fifth of whiskey, right?

[1539] And one guy's like, God damn.

[1540] That's the second one you broke.

[1541] He's like, fuck you.

[1542] You fucking broke the last one.

[1543] So they stand up and they're screaming at each other in this fight over who broke the whiskey.

[1544] Sure.

[1545] And then the maybe only fourth moviegoer in the whole audience is like me, the Cowboys and some other guy.

[1546] He asked them to stop yelling and fighting.

[1547] Now, the whole movie here smells like whiskey, by the way.

[1548] I don't care because I'm not sober yet.

[1549] You're excited.

[1550] Yeah, I'm like, damn, I'm mad at this guy too.

[1551] I could have taken a little sip.

[1552] So this escalates.

[1553] The dude who got in that little verbal thing with him, he goes to get a manager.

[1554] And I know the manager there.

[1555] And the Cowboys, they get it under wraps.

[1556] Like they stop yelling at each other, motherfucker, cocksucker, all this stuff.

[1557] Then the guy comes and then he wants to kick them out.

[1558] Now they're kind of verbally abusing him.

[1559] So now I stand up because I'm like, okay, if these two guys attack this guy, I've got to intervene.

[1560] And I'm the sheriff of Santa Monica.

[1561] This is my period of being the sheriff.

[1562] So the interaction doesn't go well.

[1563] The guy says, I've called the cops.

[1564] and they decide to leave.

[1565] Now, I should have left it there because it's now out of my sight.

[1566] But I have this bad feeling.

[1567] These two are revved up.

[1568] They just called this guy all kinds of names.

[1569] They're not small guys either.

[1570] They're like two big hillbillies.

[1571] They leave and I decide, I'm going to see what happens next.

[1572] So I leave with them.

[1573] I follow them up the escalator, but I'm behind them.

[1574] They don't know I've left and I'm tailing them.

[1575] They walk out of the AMC 7, immediately into the pizza by the slice business that's right next door so i fall in there too and someone behind the counter says something to them they've already been kicked out of there they start screaming at this girl a guy in line says up and they're like fuck you they push the guy and then i get involved that's your cue mm -hmm people are being assaulted now it's my time so i pushed one of the dudes and said get the fuck out of here the dude came at me and And as he was coming and swinging, I stepped out of the way.

[1576] And I, because now I'm fighting two guys.

[1577] And I tripped him perfectly.

[1578] Like he lunged in.

[1579] He missed me. And my foot was in the perfect thing.

[1580] And he just hit the fucking deck.

[1581] Then the other guy comes.

[1582] I get him in a headlock.

[1583] Oh, my God.

[1584] This all happens in like two seconds.

[1585] And I have one guy in a headlock.

[1586] I'm waiting for the other loser to get up off the ground to get involved when all of a sudden I'm lifted up from behind.

[1587] the police who are now responding from the earlier call arrived to go check out the movie theater but what they see is me fighting two cowboys in front of the pizza slice place so they grab me, they grab him they put me on the ground they put my hands behind my back they lift me up the manager comes out no that dude comes here all the time I think he was just making sure they didn't hurt anyone then they're like okay good job oh my God yeah did they give you a like replica sheriff I wish I always wanted them to it's kind of weird because I was kind of like I was on their side and I was in conflict with them because I was also like you know breaking all the rules come nighttime anyhow that was my story that was similar to that wow yeah the first time you saw those cowboys you knew that's how that our paths are going to cross well actually I kind of dug them they look like folksy and I was like they're they're adding some style to being homeless I'm like they look like they're in a carouac story like they've chosen this they were kind of attractive like Bree was like you can clean those guys up they're not bad looking Okay.

[1588] So they had a certain kind of style to the whole endeavor that I was into, and they had this dog that looked healthy.

[1589] I was in.

[1590] So I didn't think we were going to tangle in that way.

[1591] Yeah.

[1592] But our pass did cross.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] And I did end up involved with both of them at the same time.

[1595] Your pass crossed, and then you ran on the path for a while to catch up to them on the path.

[1596] But let me ask you this.

[1597] Would you prefer that it was me they tangled with or the dude they were starting to fight with inside the pizza place?

[1598] You, of course.

[1599] Yeah, you're the person in the pizza place.

[1600] Like, that's kind of hoping that I arrive.

[1601] Of course, except that, yeah, because he did push the guy already.

[1602] They were on a war path.

[1603] They, like, broke their thing.

[1604] They fought with that guy.

[1605] Then they almost assaulted the manager.

[1606] Then they went right into the pizza place, picked a fight with that guy.

[1607] Like, they were hell bent for leather.

[1608] They were out for war.

[1609] It's true.

[1610] It's true.

[1611] All right.

[1612] So you saw it, though.

[1613] You eventually saw it.

[1614] But I want a detour.

[1615] This is a quick detour.

[1616] My old podcast that I love, Totally Lame, is back.

[1617] And I'm so excited.

[1618] I love it.

[1619] But there was an episode where they are talking about homeless people unhoused, and they're talking about the phrasing.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] And it was funny because I was like, oh, my God, I am so not liberal on this.

[1622] I'm just not.

[1623] It's interesting for me to feel that because I feel like, oh, I'm very liberal.

[1624] This is your first time stepping out of pretty much the main platform.

[1625] But no, it's not.

[1626] And I think that's sort of why.

[1627] Oh, right, because you weren't a socialist either.

[1628] I think sometimes I get painted here as like being extreme liberal or something or extreme left.

[1629] And when I'm listening to other people talk, I realize how untrue that is.

[1630] And I just want to make that clear.

[1631] Oh, okay.

[1632] Well, I would say out of 10, 10 is you're in, I don't know what you're in.

[1633] We know what a 10 is, liberal.

[1634] You're a socialist.

[1635] You think everyone should have a free cell phone and whatever.

[1636] whatever else.

[1637] Right.

[1638] That's a 10.

[1639] I would say I think you're an eight and I think I'm a six.

[1640] Yeah, maybe.

[1641] I don't know.

[1642] That's hard for me to do.

[1643] It's like when they ask you about your pain, I hate answering.

[1644] Yeah, I know.

[1645] Just say 10 so they give you the best stuff.

[1646] Well, I know.

[1647] I don't do that.

[1648] But anyway, hearing them talk, I'm like talking back.

[1649] Like I want to have a conversation, which is so fun.

[1650] That's just a sign of a good podcast.

[1651] But Andy was a asking like what's the difference it kind of sounds it sounds the same yeah yeah yeah so why is one bad really and like i look i'm for like i don't know i'm for giving as much dignity to people as you can but the names which doesn't give anyone dignity that's my point because the experience is very undignified 100 % yes and i guess that's the thing that they're saying it's not really the word it's just now it has this connotation of dirtiness and Well, first of all, it's dirty.

[1652] I know.

[1653] Come on.

[1654] We can call it what it is.

[1655] No one is spick and span out on the streets.

[1656] That's one of the prices you paid and not having a shower.

[1657] This is what I was thinking, too.

[1658] Like, okay, at some point, we're leaving reality in order to be kind.

[1659] Be kind.

[1660] Is it even kind, like, respectful, I guess?

[1661] Uh -huh.

[1662] You're not saying they're worthless by acknowledging that they're dirty.

[1663] There's a lot of differences between being objective.

[1664] objectively covered in dirt and worthless.

[1665] Exactly.

[1666] My point for anyone who's screaming at their radio right now is this.

[1667] I actually have great compassion for them.

[1668] What you cannot avoid, what you can't ignore is that the policy is creating more and more homeless people.

[1669] So if what you don't like is homelessness, because it's not a great way for someone to live and you would want more for them, whatever we're doing, what we've been doing for the last 15 years has done nothing but increase it.

[1670] So it's not working.

[1671] Yeah, it's not working.

[1672] So if you don't like it, what you don't like it, what you've been doing for the last.

[1673] you should be against is the current process because it's increasing it.

[1674] It's not decreasing it.

[1675] Yes.

[1676] There's so much we're going to say about the actual topic, which we probably don't need to get into too much, although we totally can to.

[1677] We did sort of.

[1678] I think some of the people in the far left, I literally want to ask them, like, is your goal for everyone to be homeless?

[1679] Like, is that the goal?

[1680] Like, just that there would be people all over the street and we'd be handing them food all the time and they would be.

[1681] Like, what is the goal?

[1682] They believe, and in theory this is right.

[1683] If there is more housing, they'll have a place, that they don't have a place.

[1684] But that's not the full story.

[1685] It's not the full story at all.

[1686] There's no children on the streets in L .A. You don't see them.

[1687] I literally, literally did see that yesterday.

[1688] How often have you seen that in the last 10 years?

[1689] There's a lot of women and kids on that street when you're getting off cold water.

[1690] I noticed it multiple times with that particular spot.

[1691] But are they panhandling or are they homeless?

[1692] They're panhandling.

[1693] Yeah, so that's something to be subserved.

[1694] I've never seen a child sleeping on the street of Los Angeles in my life, and I've lived here for 26 years, and I walk the streets of L .A. I think that's right.

[1695] I've seen some in the grocery store with the mom.

[1696] Chuckie is technically a little bit more than he wasn't sleeping.

[1697] You're right.

[1698] He's outcasting spells.

[1699] You're right.

[1700] Anyway, yes, it's so complicated.

[1701] I think it's way more complicated than people want it to be.

[1702] You've got to be honest about the whole thing if there's any fucking cure in sight.

[1703] I don't know what everyone thinks.

[1704] I know that, like, people who have good hearts when they see these things.

[1705] Yeah, it's heartbreaking.

[1706] And they're just like, oh, we need, we need some, we need to help these people.

[1707] We need a solution.

[1708] Yes.

[1709] Yeah, so what is it?

[1710] Exactly.

[1711] We need it to be a real solution.

[1712] To make it easier to live on the street isn't working.

[1713] Yeah.

[1714] Anyway, yeah, it was, that's just all to say.

[1715] It was more of a realization about me than that.

[1716] But, yeah, so anyway, we saw Top Gun on Sunday.

[1717] And we saw it not in Hollywood, no Chuckies.

[1718] Right.

[1719] It was incredible.

[1720] You fell in love with Burbank.

[1721] I loved it.

[1722] Yeah.

[1723] I loved it.

[1724] You were on a high pitch for it yesterday when we played Spade.

[1725] You were like, Burbank's this, and they got that, and they got a Target, and they got an IKEA.

[1726] They have a boiling crab.

[1727] Ben and Jerry's.

[1728] Yeah, I was excited.

[1729] It was so good.

[1730] The movie was so good.

[1731] The movie was so good.

[1732] It is.

[1733] It is.

[1734] I've had many people that have heard my impassioned plea to see it.

[1735] and they were nervous.

[1736] There's no way it's going to live up to it.

[1737] And they've all kind of said, boy, really does deliver it.

[1738] It does.

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] All right.

[1741] Reggie.

[1742] Where was Alexander Hamilton from?

[1743] Charlestown is the capital of the island of Nevis in the Federation of St. Kitts and Nevis.

[1744] Oh, Leward Islands West Indies.

[1745] This is a new, I've never heard of any of those words.

[1746] West Indies, yes.

[1747] And St. Kitts, no?

[1748] I don't know St. Oh, okay.

[1749] My stepfather and mother, well, real mother, stepfather went on a cruise to St. Kitts, and they brought back some hot sauces.

[1750] So it's seared into my memory.

[1751] Oh, my God.

[1752] How hot?

[1753] I didn't have it.

[1754] I was a child baby.

[1755] Oh, weak palate.

[1756] Yeah, it's sensitive.

[1757] Okay.

[1758] So anyway, so now we know.

[1759] So not Jamaica.

[1760] Okay.

[1761] And I had thought Haiti or Dominican or something.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] The middle of introvert and extrovert is ambivert.

[1764] Mm, ambivert, which we decided we both were.

[1765] When did Clayton Christian's book come out.

[1766] It came out in 97.

[1767] Okay, so 25 years ago.

[1768] Great.

[1769] Thank you.

[1770] You said I was 13 years younger than you, but I'm 12 years younger than you.

[1771] You're right, 87, 75, 87.

[1772] That was a big misstep.

[1773] That's a compliment to you.

[1774] I made you even younger.

[1775] I know, but it wasn't because you were saying we're so different.

[1776] Well, but we're the same.

[1777] You haven't seen the original top gone.

[1778] Well, that's just because I had big holes in my movie going.

[1779] Well, it was because it came out a year before you were born as why.

[1780] And I was 11.

[1781] I guess that's a big thing.

[1782] You never had New York Seltzer Water when it first hit the scene.

[1783] I mean, there's some big cultural waves you miss. I think that's a regional.

[1784] No, it took over the world.

[1785] It did?

[1786] Yeah, because my favorite...

[1787] I've never heard of it.

[1788] Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous is one.

[1789] And his son took over running it, and he had tigers in the office.

[1790] and he paraglided into an event.

[1791] Oh, Lifestyle of the Rich and Famous guy is from New York, Seltzer Water.

[1792] The guy that was on an episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

[1793] Did you ever watch Lifestyle?

[1794] Another cultural phenomenon you missed.

[1795] I mean, I knew of it.

[1796] It was Johnny Carson's sidekick.

[1797] What was his name?

[1798] Ed McMahon.

[1799] He hosted it, and he would take you into the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

[1800] And it was wonderful.

[1801] You would see their big houses and their Rolls Royces.

[1802] It was the original cribs.

[1803] Yeah, but it was elegant.

[1804] Champagne.

[1805] We should watch the trailer of the Lifestyles of Rich and Famous, the title sequence.

[1806] Robin Leach.

[1807] Yeah, that's a name I know.

[1808] Oh, is Ed McMahon not?

[1809] Oh, you know, Ed McMahon's not those.

[1810] He did have an episode of it, though.

[1811] I'm totally wrong.

[1812] You're right.

[1813] Ed McMahon was not.

[1814] Robert Leach.

[1815] But they did an episode of Ed McMahon, and he built his daughter an exact replica of their family home, which was huge in the backyard.

[1816] It was like a 2 ,000 square foot playhouse.

[1817] Like a doll.

[1818] Oh, my God.

[1819] That was identical to their house.

[1820] Ew.

[1821] I remember that from Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous when I was seven.

[1822] Yeah.

[1823] Do da -da -da -da -da -da -d -da -d -all.

[1824] Oh, my God.

[1825] We've come so far into TV.

[1826] This is a song.

[1827] In the old story of the richest man on earth, we'll fly his $50 million glamour palace in the sky.

[1828] Oh.

[1829] It's like a romance novel.

[1830] It looks like one.

[1831] Even James Bond had to ask permission to come aboard.

[1832] Wow.

[1833] This show was made for you, Monica.

[1834] I know.

[1835] Exclusives in the presentation.

[1836] Well, episode one was Princess Diana.

[1837] Oh, my God.

[1838] She was rich and famous.

[1839] And exclusive.

[1840] I should reboot that.

[1841] Oh, my God.

[1842] You really should.

[1843] Would that be fun?

[1844] Oh, my God, with your host, Monica Padman.

[1845] You'd have to affect a little bit of an accent, like a poshy kind of a...

[1846] I'll practice it later.

[1847] Off my?

[1848] Yeah.

[1849] Okay, let me try it.

[1850] Hi, I'm your home.

[1851] Snack Shepherd.

[1852] Yeah, that's your Ken. I know.

[1853] Okay.

[1854] So that's not going to be that.

[1855] But this is going to be me trying to sound fancy, okay?

[1856] All right.

[1857] This week on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, we're going to go into the exclusive home of Bill Gates, an island compound riddled with jewels and diamonds, accompanying yachts and planes to get His Majesty.

[1858] It's very breathed.

[1859] But I like it.

[1860] Do you sound fancy?

[1861] You do sound real regal.

[1862] too eager.

[1863] I'm bowing to slow it down.

[1864] No, no, no. It's just...

[1865] Because Robin Leach had this quality, he made them think he was richer than that.

[1866] That's why I'll be great at them.

[1867] Yes, you're right.

[1868] Oh my God.

[1869] Okay, that's my official pitch, Netflix.

[1870] And Bob, start working on a revamp of that song.

[1871] Yeah.

[1872] Oh, wow.

[1873] Okay.

[1874] Okay.

[1875] So 12 years younger.

[1876] But a lot's changed.

[1877] That is true.

[1878] Yeah, like, that's what I. I was born and bred on that show.

[1879] And, of course, how could I not be obsessed with money?

[1880] I know.

[1881] They were drilling it in my head, my little porous child head.

[1882] Oh, your sponge head.

[1883] We were pretty dominant in spade.

[1884] Should we brag a little bit?

[1885] Sure.

[1886] Yeah, we did good.

[1887] We were so in control.

[1888] I know.

[1889] I know.

[1890] Okay, so what were we just saying?

[1891] I lost my train of thought.

[1892] Jamaica.

[1893] My flies are coming tomorrow.

[1894] and everything is a miss. I, like, spilled a lot of stuff this morning.

[1895] Opsie -turvy.

[1896] This is weird.

[1897] I thought your flight's come on Monday.

[1898] No, Tuesday.

[1899] Oh.

[1900] Tuesday around 11.

[1901] I'm one day off on all this stuff.

[1902] Okay.

[1903] To be fair.

[1904] Tuesday's at 11.

[1905] To be fair.

[1906] They used to come on Monday.

[1907] Thank you.

[1908] They did.

[1909] So you're right.

[1910] Okay.

[1911] But then it's been Tuesday for a long time.

[1912] I think once you get into a day with 31 months, you're going to move forward a day in the calendar.

[1913] No. Is your pills, is there 30 days in the packet, 27 on three off?

[1914] How many sugar pills?

[1915] Seven.

[1916] Seven sugar pills?

[1917] It's 28.

[1918] Oh, right.

[1919] Okay.

[1920] No, it's not because of that.

[1921] It's like one time something weird happened.

[1922] I got it late.

[1923] Okay.

[1924] And it was unsettling.

[1925] Sure.

[1926] Jarring.

[1927] Yep.

[1928] But then it stayed on that track.

[1929] It was weird.

[1930] Jar of Flies.

[1931] Very popular album by Rob.

[1932] You know who it's by.

[1933] Jar of Flies.

[1934] Alice and Chains?

[1935] Allison Chains.

[1936] I don't know.

[1937] There was a ding, ding, ding, but you don't know Allison Chains.

[1938] Again, you're too young.

[1939] I know.

[1940] We don't know each other.

[1941] Oh, God.

[1942] It's nice.

[1943] You can teach me things.

[1944] I can teach you things.

[1945] Yes.

[1946] I didn't know any of the friend stuff.

[1947] I mean, I've picked up so much friend stuff by being friends with you.

[1948] That album came out of 94.

[1949] You could have been listening to that at seven.

[1950] Too young for that kind of music.

[1951] Is it adult music?

[1952] Yeah.

[1953] Speaking of old people.

[1954] Okay.

[1955] black and tans when he taught us about the boots i thought that was so interesting so then i typed in black and tan boots and you can imagine what happened i started shopping oh sure of course regular black and tan boots came up yeah so this fact check probably set you back a couple g's yeah the nickname black and tans arose from the colors of the improvised uniforms they initially wore a mixture of dark green r i c which appeared black and khaki british army Mm, okay.

[1956] Did you know Burberry?

[1957] Yeah.

[1958] The coats were originally like uniform coats.

[1959] Do you know Hitler commissioned one of the most famous Italian designers that you still wear their stuff to design the SS and the normal uniforms for the Third Reich?

[1960] No. No. No. A very famous Italian designer.

[1961] Hugo boss.

[1962] Is that what it is?

[1963] Oh, wait, no. He was an active member of the Nazi party from 1931.

[1964] Type in what designer made the Nazi uniforms?

[1965] Carl Dybich?

[1966] That's not a famous Italian.

[1967] Hugo Boss produced them, though.

[1968] Hugo Boss was one of the companies that produced.

[1969] Oh, wow.

[1970] Oh, you talked about Call of Duty.

[1971] Oh, right.

[1972] Couldn't remember the name of it.

[1973] Call of Duty, Black Ops.

[1974] This was right after it came out, has generated revenue, of $366 million in its first 24 hours on sale in the U .S. and U .K. 24 hours.

[1975] That's nuts.

[1976] Yeah, no movies ever opened at 364 in its first day globally.

[1977] How much money did Hollywood make in 2021?

[1978] 21 .3 billion.

[1979] Ooh.

[1980] The whole industry.

[1981] The whole, and that includes Disney merchandising, I bet.

[1982] Maybe.

[1983] This says combined ticket sales worldwide.

[1984] Oh, okay, not merch.

[1985] Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[1986] Okay, and then you mentioned a rabbit kid.

[1987] Rabbit Kid is someone your brother likes, who's a famous video game.

[1988] Oh, you know who it is, though?

[1989] Wait, now that you're saying it.

[1990] Yeah.

[1991] You didn't know the name.

[1992] Have you figured it out?

[1993] Well, there's two people it could be.

[1994] Okay.

[1995] Do you think it's Johann No -Tale, Sunstein?

[1996] No, no. I may have been conflating it with cutie pie.

[1997] Oh, now that I think about it.

[1998] You mean?

[1999] From the rabbit hole.

[2000] Yes, from the rabbit hole.

[2001] But it wasn't cutie pie, was it?

[2002] Isn't it?

[2003] Cudy pie.

[2004] No, it's, it's, um.

[2005] Cudy pie.

[2006] No, this is like Charo.

[2007] Uh -oh.

[2008] Isn't it Heidi?

[2009] It's cutie pie.

[2010] That's South, that's South Park.

[2011] Hi, The poop guy Pootie Pooty pie?

[2012] No, we would love Pootie Pooty pie No, Pooty pie It is P -E -W -D -I -E Oh, I'm seeing it now too It is P -O -O -T -I -E Ew But not P -O -O -T -I -E We would love that We would love P -O -T -I -E pie But we don't like P -O -O -T -I -E pie P -T -Py pie Pute -Pie pie Oh, wow.

[2013] Boy, what a weird world we live in.

[2014] I mean, truly, there's some, we're talking about someone named Pute Pie because they're relevant.

[2015] Okay, so you were thinking of that.

[2016] I wasn't thinking of Pudy Pied.

[2017] Let me just ask my brother for Christ's sake.

[2018] Okay, well, I'll tell you the number one current video gamer is Johann, quote, No -Tale, Sunstein.

[2019] God, he's like German and Jewish and what was it?

[2020] No -Tale is like his maverick.

[2021] No -Tale's like his like call son.

[2022] Okay, there's just a lot in there.

[2023] He just wrote back Ninja, but that wasn't it.

[2024] There was another that had a sillier name.

[2025] Okay, No -Tale has earned nearly $7 million by 2021, making him the world's richest professional competitive gamer.

[2026] So also you had said 35 mil.

[2027] But let's be clear.

[2028] He just wrote back, scissors question mark.

[2029] No, keep going.

[2030] Scissors?

[2031] Listen to this exchange.

[2032] Ninja?

[2033] No, there was another one that had a sillier name.

[2034] Scissors?

[2035] No, keep going.

[2036] Ninja's the ultimate gamer.

[2037] No, what's relevant is I think what you just read is like game winnings.

[2038] But this dude I'm talking about has also a YouTube channel where people watch him, like 70 million people, and then he has also monetized that into the tens and 20s of millions of dollars.

[2039] Oh my God, he goes, oh, dot, dot, dot.

[2040] The girl who plays with Ninja?

[2041] No. Ninja did come up immediately when I type in World's Richest Gamer.

[2042] What's it saying that this turkey sit now?

[2043] Ninja, aka Richard Tyler Blevins.

[2044] Oh, my goodness.

[2045] It's so on British.

[2046] I know.

[2047] It's so.

[2048] Do you write that?

[2049] You can write this.

[2050] Yeah, you can write it.

[2051] Richard Tyler Blevins, popularly known by his gamer named Ninja, is the richest gamer in the world.

[2052] His net worth being $17 million makes him the richest out of the lot.

[2053] Okay, looks like Johann Sunstein, aka No -Tale, is the 10th, the 10th richest.

[2054] Oh, read the top.

[2055] Yeah, I'm going to read them all.

[2056] Okay.

[2057] Now, number one.

[2058] Tyler Blevins' Ninja is one.

[2059] Two is Pootie Pie.

[2060] Oh, okay, so it's Pootie Pai.

[2061] He's kind of, he's not unattracted.

[2062] No, yeah, he's a, yeah.

[2063] So he was a gamer.

[2064] Yeah, he started as a gamer.

[2065] Okay.

[2066] It was posted to him playing games and then he got political.

[2067] You probably got confused me. He said rabbit kid because he was in rabbit hole.

[2068] Yes.

[2069] Yeah.

[2070] Okay, Rabbit Kid, aka Pootie Pooty Pye.

[2071] So Pooty Pye's up there.

[2072] He's number two.

[2073] Oh, God.

[2074] Ninja's number one.

[2075] Pudy Pooty Pied.

[2076] Number two.

[2077] Preston Arismint is number three or arrest.

[2078] No, arsment.

[2079] Preston Blaine Arstment.

[2080] Guys.

[2081] We're going to get grilled for the pronunciation of all of these.

[2082] Also, I got to imagine, like, people are so passionate about these people.

[2083] Because they're underdogs.

[2084] So they're like, we're picking on gamers.

[2085] I'm not picking on.

[2086] They're making a ton of money.

[2087] Yeah, I'm punching up.

[2088] Okay.

[2089] Number four is Mark Fishbock, aka Markiplier.

[2090] Who, like, multiply.

[2091] Uh -huh.

[2092] Okay.

[2093] We would like this because, like, megalib.

[2094] All of our nicknames, yeah.

[2095] Michael, Michael Grezesiak.

[2096] Michael Grisciak.

[2097] Okay.

[2098] That sounds Slavic.

[2099] Greshik.

[2100] Oh, Grish.

[2101] Maybe Rob could pronounce this because his stupid name has a fucking C and a Y and a Z. Gresciac.

[2102] Okay.

[2103] His name is Shroud.

[2104] Oh, that's his nickname is Shroud.

[2105] Shroud, yeah.

[2106] Daniel Middleton goes by.

[2107] Dan TDM.

[2108] Ooh, Dan TDM.

[2109] Evan Fong.

[2110] He goes by Vanos Gaming.

[2111] Oh, actually, I think I've heard of that.

[2112] Vanos Gaming?

[2113] Yeah.

[2114] Sean William McLaughlin, but the A and Sean has a...

[2115] Oh, an ampersand above it?

[2116] Like a character.

[2117] Yeah, a slash.

[2118] That's a ding, ding, ding, because Reggie's last name has...

[2119] Oh, it has that too, yeah.

[2120] Yeah.

[2121] Okay.

[2122] Sean William McLaughlin goes by...

[2123] Jack septus eye Septus eye Jack septic eye It's all one word Oh Jack septicai Of course Not septic eye Well I mean I guess I don't know what he But it's spelled like Jack septicai Okay Then number nine is Timothy John Bader And then ten is Johann Sunstein Notail Oh Wow we learned I didn't think I'd ever learn that The top ten I know it's fun.

[2124] That's why we're fun.

[2125] Okay.

[2126] Okay.

[2127] Wow.

[2128] That's it.

[2129] I also wrote, because I went to Sugarfish and someone had an American spirit.

[2130] Cigarette.

[2131] Cigarette case next to me, and I knew about those because you taught me. Did you ask them if they were previously a Camelite smoker?

[2132] No. Okay.

[2133] I think they were smoking in the restaurant.

[2134] It was weird.

[2135] At where?

[2136] Sugarfish.

[2137] Someone was smoking inside of sugarfish.

[2138] It was weird.

[2139] What?

[2140] I know.

[2141] That should have been the first thing you told us about.

[2142] I forgot.

[2143] I wrote it down.

[2144] Are you sure?

[2145] No. I'm not sure.

[2146] No, listen, they smelled so much of smoke, but that's just because they were smoking outside, obviously.

[2147] Yeah, yeah.

[2148] They smelled very strongly, and then he had his cigarettes out on the table, on display.

[2149] And then at one point, Rachel, like, looked over and, like, kind of made this, like, kind of crazy face and then coughed.

[2150] Okay, but I didn't look because I was uncomfortable.

[2151] You are so interesting.

[2152] Of course, I would have interjected myself immediately and then followed him everywhere he went to make sure no one else was put out.

[2153] Is it the pizza plaza?

[2154] Yes, exactly.

[2155] All right, love you.

[2156] Love you.

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