Armchair Anonymous: Wild Animal

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[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

[4] I'm Dan Shepard.

[5] I'm joined by the Duchess of Duluth.

[6] I am very pleased because I have received a lot of messages lately about how much they love Armchair Anonymous.

[7] You know, these are the episodes I'll listen to later.

[8] They're the best.

[9] They make me, like, I'll read these lovely comments people like, I got to pull my car over.

[10] I couldn't see I was crying so hard laughing.

[11] And then I get nostalgic and I want to hear the story all over again.

[12] And yeah, I just listen to Poops on the date again.

[13] It was so good.

[14] Okay, now this one definitely falls into the bracket of you shouldn't listen to this episode.

[15] Don't listen to this episode.

[16] It's not a fun episode.

[17] This one's downright scary.

[18] It is scary, but there is something really exciting.

[19] that happens.

[20] Well, two exciting things happen.

[21] Okay, two exciting things happen.

[22] One unexpected thing happens, and you'll get to hear it real time.

[23] It's a real time pop out for everyone.

[24] Yes, it was incredible.

[25] I felt like my brain was short -circuiting.

[26] Same.

[27] Sim was crossing or something.

[28] Yeah.

[29] And then the other thing was a really fun stop by by one of my best friends, Nate Tuck, who's a great storyteller and has an incredible, oh my God.

[30] Were we just dying, laughing?

[31] Yeah, when I was listening, back i was laughing so hard okay so don't listen to this episode but maybe go skip to nate's episode no listen to this episode no i just got to say man one of these stories i've not been so tense hearing a real life story it's terrifying except poop a blockbuster well no hallway for me oh hallway was really scary for you made a mess yeah sure i mean there's no coming back from there's no solution to that he could at least waddle to the bathroom that hallway there's no solution to yeah you're dead in the water.

[32] Please enjoy Armchair Anonymous.

[33] All times.

[34] Come and go.

[35] Take them slow.

[36] You got to know, I'm going to keep on shining.

[37] Hello, can you hear us?

[38] I can hear you.

[39] Oh, wonderful.

[40] Are you a cartographer?

[41] Are you a geologist?

[42] Are you an amateur?

[43] I'm an amateur everything.

[44] I live in a Columbia gorge, so the river is right off my lawn.

[45] Are you on the Washington side or the Oregon side?

[46] Oregon side.

[47] Are you a windsurfer?

[48] Started out that way, windsurfer, kiteboarder, now wing foiler.

[49] It's bad for adrenaline junkies when you get old things, get more serious.

[50] Well, I'll tell you what will spike one's adrenaline is interacting with a wild animal.

[51] It's a small club.

[52] No one wants to join it, as far as I can tell.

[53] We don't even know what animal you came into contact with.

[54] Grizzly bear.

[55] Oh, my God.

[56] Oh, no. Tell us.

[57] Tell us.

[58] 2001, I'm hunting with my buddy off the northwest corner of yellow.

[59] So historically known to have grizzly bears all the time.

[60] We knew that.

[61] I've been hunting there for 17 years together.

[62] And the end of the day, get to our honeyhole, we're like nine miles out from anything.

[63] I go, hey, this is the spot.

[64] As you know, it's like sex drugs and rock and roll.

[65] So in hunting, it's all about sex.

[66] And we're making dougling noises, male, female.

[67] Got nothing.

[68] You're trying to attract, what, elk?

[69] Elk with bone arrow.

[70] So you've got to have them real close.

[71] And you've got to do everything possible to not be human, which is a good.

[72] exactly what you don't want when you're in grizzly bar country.

[73] You want to let bears know you're around, be loud, right?

[74] But we do the opposite.

[75] We're totally stealth, totally quiet, we descent, we completely erase our humans to the greatest extent possible.

[76] And the sunsets, well, of course, you know, grizzly bears like hunting in the evening and in the early morning.

[77] So we're like, okay, we've got to get out of here.

[78] So we sat there for just a second, watching the sun go down behind the peaks.

[79] We're up at about 8 ,000 feet.

[80] And all of a sudden, I go, we've got to get out of here.

[81] It's always bad walking in the dark.

[82] I only have a sidearm and he had a bear spray.

[83] And so it wasn't our usual deal.

[84] But anyway, I say, let's go.

[85] I don't even have my pack on.

[86] I stand up.

[87] I have my bow in my hand.

[88] All of a sudden I hear something coming at us charging.

[89] All elk do this.

[90] Like, we've just got them hot.

[91] So I turn around and I'm reaching for an arrow and there's three grizzly bears coming at me. Three.

[92] Yeah.

[93] So it was a sow and two cubs.

[94] They're two years old.

[95] If you stretch them up, there'd be five feet tall.

[96] and I knew this is bad.

[97] Am I right that any time a female's got cubs, that's the most dangerous situation you're ever going to be in with a bear?

[98] I mean, if you're somehow between your cubs and this and the other, this actually helped us.

[99] Now, remember, everything I say is just through the filter of a human.

[100] It's not their brain, right?

[101] But I'm thinking she's teaching them to hunt, and we've been doing bull calls, female calls.

[102] It's like there's a herd of elk.

[103] And from that second on, I don't have a movie in my head.

[104] You know, I've been in avalanches and bike accidents and car accidents.

[105] But there's something called time dilation.

[106] Everything slows down and you know it's going fast, but it's going really slow.

[107] And so I see them coming around a tree and they're coming so hard, there's rocks and dirt coming from their back legs as they come around this tree.

[108] And then they're 20 yards from me. And they cause for a brief second.

[109] And I go to my handgun now issue, I hadn't loaded my handgun and I didn't have it out of my holster.

[110] But in the time it took, when my hand hit my holster, she broke my leg with a person.

[111] two bites.

[112] No. No. She bit your femur?

[113] No, my fibula actually.

[114] Okay.

[115] I have to be a retired orthopedic surgeons.

[116] Distalender proximal.

[117] Kind of right in the middle.

[118] It was the middle third.

[119] Okay.

[120] Shattered, actually.

[121] So as she and her two cubs are on her shoulders are coming at me, it's a wall of energy like it's just hard to fathom.

[122] Well, it's safe to guess.

[123] This is about 2 ,000 pounds of cumulative bear between her and the two cubs.

[124] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[125] There was a glint of sun off.

[126] them, and I could see the little silvery fringes of their hair.

[127] And I remember thinking, that's why they call them grizzlies, right?

[128] I mean, this is what's going through my head.

[129] You're having epiphanies.

[130] And they come in like dogs.

[131] They don't do the movie thing.

[132] You know, they don't come in and stand up and wave and do all that.

[133] She did me twice on my leg, and I jump back.

[134] I'm on the ground.

[135] I'm on my gun arm, my right hand.

[136] So every time I get away from her, I can't get my gun out.

[137] And every time she's got me, that's when I'm working to get my gun out.

[138] So the next thing I know, she just chews into my thigh.

[139] Oh, my God.

[140] There's no pain, though, is there?

[141] Is there pain?

[142] No pain, because your DNA is not letting that happen.

[143] No, that would be too distracting in this moment.

[144] Her face was right here on my thigh.

[145] Black bear, you fight like crazy.

[146] Grizzly bear, you're supposed to play dead.

[147] And I'm still holding my bow in my hand.

[148] I'm going, can't do it.

[149] So I hit her across the bridge of the nose.

[150] Hit her again and jump back.

[151] In the meantime, I'm trying to get out my gun.

[152] and I hear a voice, which turns out to be mine, not yelling, but just saying in a loud voice.

[153] My friend's name is Dave.

[154] I go, Dave, you got to help me. She's mauling me. Well, he was laying down.

[155] He was trying to be flat so I could shoot.

[156] The tracks showed they jumped right over him.

[157] And then she grabs my left arm.

[158] Oh, my God.

[159] You know, I'm 210 pounds probably.

[160] Up in the air like hanky, in my opinion, she was a little over -exuberant because I come from lying down to completely up in the air.

[161] And as I've come flying up in the air, this arm goes completely numb.

[162] My bow goes somewhere where I have no idea.

[163] But as I turn, there's her mouth and face fully open right in front of me. I'm still confident.

[164] I'm still feeling good.

[165] So I'm flying at her, and somehow I twist just enough.

[166] They have a pretty dished out place here right from next to their nose.

[167] And I headbutter and I hear this tremendous crashing and I just go flying through the air.

[168] And I kind of land standing up.

[169] I've now got my gun out.

[170] I'm standing up and it's kind of hanging between my legs.

[171] Now, she would have killed me at that moment if it hadn't been for my partner who is the hero of the story.

[172] He doesn't have a gun.

[173] He's just got his bear spray.

[174] And he's a little uphill from us and in the nighttime, the wind blows uphill in the mountains.

[175] And he's a big guy.

[176] He's like six, eight.

[177] Oh, my, wow.

[178] Jesus.

[179] He then takes the bear spray, takes two, big running steps at her sprays.

[180] Well, it shoots out.

[181] It also goes out in the phone, but it goes out in the line.

[182] And he's running, and the wind's blowing at him, and it drops him.

[183] But in the meantime, she had stood up to try to catch me. They try to get your neck and your face, your head.

[184] That's how they immobilized.

[185] She tries to do that.

[186] Now we're like the movie.

[187] She's standing up, sees him on the corner of the right, and that's why she doesn't kill me. Boom, this guy's coming at him.

[188] Turns out, of course, that big crunching noise was me, my head.

[189] Her left canine took my left ear off.

[190] It looks good now, though, doesn't it?

[191] I mean, just all in all, I'm shocked you're sitting here.

[192] In fact, I know.

[193] Yes, yes, yes.

[194] So then I put up my gun and then I realize I don't have a round chamber.

[195] Again, brain's not working that well.

[196] I go to get my left arm up and left arm doesn't work at all.

[197] So I drop my hand back down, chamber around, go to take a step, forgot my left legs broken.

[198] Oh my God.

[199] So I pitch into some branches, which then kick me back.

[200] Turns out later, we looked at all that.

[201] I had just misses a big rock, which would have killed me anyway, but then I hit and it knocks the wind up.

[202] Is any part of you cognizant enough to think, I just have to fire this thing?

[203] It doesn't even have to be at her, just the noise, hopefully.

[204] That's way too complicated.

[205] I am going to shoot this large mass. Of course, in reality, it doesn't work.

[206] I mean, you know, Lewis and Clark shot 50 cows at those bears, and handgun doesn't kill him.

[207] So look kind of down between my legs.

[208] Here's my buddy on the ground.

[209] He's got snot and tears and coming out of every o 'clock.

[210] because he's been completely covered in the bear spray because he ran into the cloud.

[211] And it's not a good scene.

[212] He's blind.

[213] Quinn knocked out of me. I only got one arm that's working at this point, but they're gone.

[214] They left.

[215] Wow.

[216] I think that she got into a situation that she didn't appreciate.

[217] She was protective of her cubs.

[218] So I think that's what helped us, actually.

[219] And she's like, uh, we're out of here.

[220] This was not what I was expecting.

[221] I buy that.

[222] Yeah.

[223] But there's stories of, you know, grizzly bears a lot of times, they attack, then they go and sit and wait.

[224] You move, they come get you again.

[225] We had friends that were attacked four times.

[226] Oh, my God.

[227] Okay, how the fuck do you get out of this situation?

[228] Well, he's blind.

[229] So he crawls over to me, and he's just trying to feel.

[230] Oh, fuck.

[231] Because he can't see.

[232] So he's feeling my leg.

[233] Oh, my God.

[234] He just starts screaming because it hurt so bad.

[235] And then Dave says, okay, stop whining.

[236] We got to get going.

[237] Now you're a bloody, easy target.

[238] I tell you, I can't remember going, but I walked about two miles.

[239] Wolfsley was downhill so I could swing my bad leg, another four miles out, this pitch black dark, the wolves there, wolves are howling and stop.

[240] Oh, my God, yeah, yeah.

[241] So he leaves me, he takes off running.

[242] What we don't realize is he's completely coated in this oil -based bear spray.

[243] He immediately sweats and becomes blind again, and he has nothing on him that isn't covered in it.

[244] So he runs out four miles in the dark, just kind of hear his footsteps on a bit of a path.

[245] In the meantime, you know, I have an amazing experience looking at the Milky Way and hearing the wolves of going into shock.

[246] You have this invisible feeling.

[247] I call it a lot of life force.

[248] No matter what I was doing as a kid and all this stuff, it's always like, well, I'm going to live.

[249] I'm going to live through this, which is nonsensical, of course.

[250] Sure, sure, sure.

[251] As I'm laying there for multiple hours, I had a sense of oneness.

[252] And I'm telling you, it was unbelievable, fantastic.

[253] Oh, wonderful.

[254] I love hearing that.

[255] I finally realized, I got nothing.

[256] It's rare in life where you're completely out of moves.

[257] You're like, well, I'm laying here.

[258] And I am now at the mercy of whether someone finds me or not.

[259] What will happen will happen.

[260] And, you know, you just go, well, I know my wife loves me, my kids love me, I love them.

[261] That's all there is.

[262] Yeah.

[263] I would imagine what happens is there is some fracturing of the ego.

[264] The barriers of all these compartments that we define ourselves by start eroding a little bit.

[265] Totally.

[266] Were you airlifted out eventually or did people come on horseback?

[267] How did you end up getting pulled out of there?

[268] My buddy ultimately got there.

[269] He drove however many miles to a ranch.

[270] They happened to have a key to a gate.

[271] They got there in a vehicle.

[272] And then I got into Bozeman, Montana finally in the middle of the night.

[273] And that's a whole other story.

[274] The next harrowing adventure begins.

[275] The surgeon had only been a surgeon for two weeks.

[276] Oh, okay.

[277] It's like, I've never seen a bear attack.

[278] I'm going, don't worry.

[279] I've never seen one either.

[280] I've never been part of one either.

[281] So it was all good.

[282] Wow.

[283] Wow, Stephen, that was harrowing.

[284] I'm sweating.

[285] I have adrenal fatigue.

[286] Yeah.

[287] That was wild.

[288] It is incredible.

[289] You do not resemble someone who's been mauled by a bear.

[290] And left her dead.

[291] Obviously, it's been many years.

[292] And as much as I was touched by the bear, she chomped on me five times.

[293] What saved me is she didn't hit me with her hands because, you know, they have huge claws that are blunt.

[294] They just tear chunks off you.

[295] They don't rip, like black bears rip through you.

[296] They're like knives.

[297] But she just chewed me. So that saved me. On my arm here, she just missed my whole neurovascular bundle, pure luck.

[298] Oh, wow, Stephen.

[299] Thank you for sharing that.

[300] Yeah, that was intense.

[301] Loved it.

[302] Thank you so much for telling us that story.

[303] That was incredible.

[304] You're welcome, and it's all due to my daughter who knows you guys, and I have no idea, an old guy.

[305] That's great.

[306] Well, we appreciate it, and say hi to your daughter for us.

[307] All right.

[308] Okay, take care.

[309] Bye.

[310] Hello.

[311] Hi.

[312] Look at this fun space you're in lots of...

[313] She did it.

[314] She went to the closet, exactly as told.

[315] I followed instructions.

[316] I'm a teacher, so I do as told.

[317] Oh, I appreciate you.

[318] much.

[319] Can we use your real name while we chat?

[320] Absolutely.

[321] Okay, so you fought a wild animal?

[322] Is this possible?

[323] I didn't fight a wild animal.

[324] Okay, that's okay.

[325] I thought of you after because, well, for a few reasons, but I was like, I should have ripped off my arm and hit him with it.

[326] And I did not do that.

[327] So this experience happened after you started listening to this show.

[328] This happened a month ago.

[329] Oh my gosh.

[330] Oh my gosh.

[331] Okay.

[332] What happened?

[333] Where were you?

[334] I was training for the New York Marathon.

[335] and starting in August, I needed to start increasing my distance.

[336] It gets really humid in this area.

[337] So I thought, I'll wake up early and I'll start adding into my kilometers.

[338] So I left my house and I was running on this path really close to my house.

[339] And I saw something ahead and I don't wear glasses, which I've heard, Monica, you share this as well.

[340] Yeah, bad eyesight.

[341] It's fuzzy, right?

[342] Yeah, but it's kind of cool.

[343] Yeah, yeah.

[344] I actually don't mind, especially because I just got glasses and I put them on and look in mirror and I'm like, oh, that's my whole thing.

[345] Everything gets up like 10 % uglier.

[346] Yeah.

[347] So I like the world I live in.

[348] But anyway, so I saw something on the grass.

[349] I'm going to say 100 meters.

[350] I didn't know what it was.

[351] So I kept running and then it lifted its head and looked at me. And I was like, huh, I noticed it was a coyote, which we have in our area.

[352] So I thought, okay, I'll just turn around and go down a different street.

[353] And I started running down to the different street.

[354] And I looked behind me and it was chasing me. No. We're told coyotes don't do this.

[355] Yeah, you told me that.

[356] I've told her this.

[357] Although I would never advise running away from one because I think it could trigger that predator prey thing where even if they normally wouldn't have thought they could take you down if you run from them, they're like, oh, I guess this thing thinks I could take it down.

[358] I believe it too.

[359] But you're not supposed to.

[360] I did the wrong thing.

[361] That's okay.

[362] That's okay.

[363] We all make mistakes.

[364] I thought we were far enough.

[365] And like my instinct was like, get me out of here.

[366] I looked behind me and it was chasing me and then I just froze and it started jumping on me. No. It was biting.

[367] That was cute.

[368] I'm sorry, I know.

[369] No, it's good.

[370] It's good.

[371] They're not supposed to get people.

[372] Yeah.

[373] I eventually remembered you're supposed to get big and like scary and loud.

[374] That's what they teach us.

[375] It's called hazing.

[376] So I kind of was like, ah, and got big and tried to escalate my voice a bit.

[377] And he kind of backed off but he was just circling me. Oh.

[378] Can I ask where he had bit you at this point?

[379] My leg.

[380] I didn't need stitches or anything, but there was fur in my leg.

[381] Okay, so you got kind of big.

[382] Okay, you got big.

[383] But I couldn't get away because it was just like circling me. So I tried to call my husband, but it was like six in the morning.

[384] He was sleeping.

[385] Oh, gosh.

[386] So then a guy up ahead riding his bike not super straight and kind of sketchy.

[387] Usually I'd be really scared of him.

[388] But now you can't wait to interact with him.

[389] Exactly.

[390] So I, like, waved him over.

[391] And I was like, I need your help.

[392] This coyote won't leave me alone.

[393] So he went kind of towards the coyote and squeaked his brakes.

[394] And then the coyote took off enough that I could, like, back off and go down a different street.

[395] You didn't go directly home.

[396] I did.

[397] I did.

[398] But like, like, a different route.

[399] He was yelling at me. He's like, get pepper spray and whatever.

[400] But he saved me. Now it's time for an education.

[401] Well, yeah.

[402] People love to educate other people.

[403] Oh, that's terrifying.

[404] I can't believe a coyote did that.

[405] So it was a kai wolf, apparently.

[406] A hybrid of coyotes and wolves?

[407] Because my neighbor saw it, maybe 20 minutes later, running through a neighborhood looking kind of frazzled.

[408] But I had to get rabies shots and all of that kind of stuff.

[409] And I told the city that we live in and nothing really happened.

[410] And I was kind of like, we got to do something, right?

[411] Yeah.

[412] About two weeks later, a toddler in my area was sitting in their backyard.

[413] And the dad went inside to get water, and he came out and the toddler was screaming and had bite marks on its neck.

[414] No. And then the dad looked in the backyard and in a corner with a coyote.

[415] So this coyote is just letting loose.

[416] Then it started getting serious.

[417] Have they shot this thing yet?

[418] Okay.

[419] So I had to ID the coyote.

[420] Oh, good luck.

[421] Yeah.

[422] I can't see.

[423] So like.

[424] Oh, yeah.

[425] Oh, I forgot about it.

[426] that part you can't even see they found like a den and they thought they found this like kai wolf so i said i think that's it so they shot it like in the day in a park they told me it's going to be a humane elimination but anyway yeah nice words that's like an oxymoron i mean humane elimination yeah and then the next day a different lady in my neighborhood got attacked what the hell i hate this oh my i hate it too so now they got the wrong one i think And now this guy's still in my hood.

[427] Wait, wait, wait.

[428] Why do they think it's one?

[429] I mean, this is where animal people will be mad at me. But yeah, we can't have toddlers, you know.

[430] I know.

[431] And nice women.

[432] Yeah, we probably encroached on their thing.

[433] And I get it.

[434] We encroached and we took away their habitat.

[435] But here we are.

[436] It's also them.

[437] It's not like it fucked up your flower bed or something.

[438] I'm dealing with some stuff.

[439] Like I have to say, I'm pretty, like I'm not running the marathon.

[440] Whatever.

[441] Like, that's not easy.

[442] huge deal or anything.

[443] I'll do it next year, but like, I don't walk safely.

[444] It's impacted life.

[445] I hate to bring it back to the nut on the bike, but if you thought about like having some kind of weapon or bear spray?

[446] I have bear spray.

[447] I'm listening to the guy on the bike.

[448] Okay, good.

[449] We should always listen to the guy that's riding crooked on a bicycle.

[450] The drunk guy.

[451] The Oracle.

[452] Oh, my God.

[453] Well, I'm really sorry.

[454] Yeah, that's a lot.

[455] Bummer.

[456] It was crazy.

[457] Yeah.

[458] Again, the animal rights people hate that I'm going to say this but I have this thing right so we went on safari you're in a little jeep no doors no roof you're just sitting in a seat and then the lion walks up and he is two and a half feet from your face Kristen's totally comfortable with this and minard our guide is very comfortable with this and i said guys there's nothing stopping him from eating all three of us and minard said well we don't resemble his prey but I said until it does yeah until it does like yes I agree with you you you probably have historically the high ground here, but until it does, another rule I knew, you can't hit pigeons.

[459] Go ahead and try.

[460] You can't hit a pigeon with your car.

[461] Okay, that one's bad though.

[462] But in my experience and everyone I tell the pigeon story too, they go, oh, I thought you couldn't hit them.

[463] I thought you couldn't hit them either until you can.

[464] It doesn't mean you should drive 90 miles an hour.

[465] Animals are not math problems.

[466] They're not predictable.

[467] They're not going to have the same outcome every time.

[468] I'm glad I'm me and I hate animals.

[469] Okay, be careful.

[470] I don't care, guys.

[471] I know, but I always end up defending you to these people.

[472] They spend a lot of my time fighting with people.

[473] Well, these animals are doing this to our own chair.

[474] I know, I know.

[475] I know.

[476] How about you hate these attack animals?

[477] Can we just add the attack?

[478] They can all attack at any moment.

[479] Bunny rabbits?

[480] Yeah.

[481] Oh, wow.

[482] Kelly, we're going to disengage that we're against bunnies.

[483] I guess they could have a disease.

[484] Exactly.

[485] Okay, you got me. This is what I'm saying.

[486] Oh, Kelly.

[487] Well, I'm glad you didn't get rabies.

[488] I arrogantly think I would actually love to fight a coyote.

[489] You know, especially if I had gloves on or something, I'd love it.

[490] Like, really, motherfucker, you think you can take me at 65 pounds?

[491] But I would be like, I don't want rabies.

[492] You might have a secret weapon here on board, and that would be the rabies.

[493] Yeah, they messed up my rabies or something.

[494] So I had to go for, like, follow -up blood work.

[495] And I don't think I have rabies, but I might have to do the whole course again.

[496] You don't have rabies, but there is just a little smidgen of me that wants you to go rabid like the dog Kujo did in the Stephen King thing.

[497] And then just leave your house at 2 a .m. and go look for it.

[498] You're like, all right, motherfucker, it's a fair fight now.

[499] I'm rabid too.

[500] That'll be our next prompt.

[501] Have you ever gone rabid?

[502] I'll let you know.

[503] Okay.

[504] Well, Kelly, thank you for that story.

[505] I'm really sorry because I know that really affects your brain.

[506] permanently, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[507] It's scary.

[508] I see them all the time in our neighborhood, and I'll just walk directly at them.

[509] Again, in my worldview, I know they'll walk away.

[510] But in your worldview, it's permanently changed.

[511] I don't care if you never interact with a bad one again, that's done.

[512] Yeah.

[513] You're never going to not think this thing's capable of biting me. No, it's true.

[514] And I got to start wearing glasses because now I see dogs and I'm like, oh, right.

[515] Well, I'm going to keep an eye on them, too.

[516] Okay, thanks for chatting.

[517] thank you so much.

[518] It was really nice to meet you.

[519] It was really nice to meet you too.

[520] And I listened to you while I did you do my runs.

[521] Like I was listening to Sean White.

[522] So you were part of this experience.

[523] Like I had to pause you while I was getting bitten.

[524] I'm glad you didn't like associate us with the trauma.

[525] You've run marathons with me. You've been through it all.

[526] So thank you.

[527] All right.

[528] Well, thank you so much.

[529] It was so nice meeting you.

[530] Take care.

[531] Bye bye.

[532] That one got you worse than the grizzly bear.

[533] They're both really bad.

[534] Well, the grizzly bear, I'm not hunting.

[535] Right.

[536] So I'm not as.

[537] scared of just like randomly.

[538] Yeah, you're never going to be hiking in Yellowstone.

[539] But coyotes walk up and down our street.

[540] Yeah, yeah.

[541] I knew it.

[542] That was a coy wolf.

[543] That's true.

[544] What if our coyotes mix with P -22 and there's coyote lions?

[545] I'm moving.

[546] God.

[547] I'm still up for it.

[548] That's so silly of me. Like, I want to fight a coyote.

[549] That is so silly.

[550] The bear story didn't deter you at all.

[551] I do not want to fight a bear.

[552] Fuck no. I don't want to fight anything that I know could destroy.

[553] me throw pieces of your flesh off you that part clump clump yeah i'm going to have to give a stern warning on this one i'm going to drive a lot of listeners away hello can you hear us i can hear you just fine can you hear me okay absolutely i'm immediately struck by russ the oxymoron you have on your door chaotic neutral it is he's a canadian rocker oh are you in the great white north I am in the Great White North.

[554] I am in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

[555] Okay, proper Great White North.

[556] Does this story take place in the wilderness of Canada?

[557] It does.

[558] It takes place a little bit west of here.

[559] Okay, so Russ, tell us what year this was and walk us through the non -neutral chaos.

[560] So we start on August 18, 2019.

[561] I have a wife and two boys.

[562] At the time, they are nine and seven.

[563] and we are campers.

[564] That's kind of our family thing.

[565] So we have chosen a campsite called Rampart Creek, which is sort of in between two places called Bans and Jasper, along a very remote section of the highway.

[566] We've chosen it because it is very remote, and it has no cell service.

[567] Oh, okay.

[568] This particular campground is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been to.

[569] We luck out.

[570] We're situated right on the side of the river.

[571] So there's just this crazy blue river just roaring kind of past the campsite.

[572] It's pretty much perfect.

[573] So I'm setting up camp.

[574] My wife and youngest go for a quick walk to just sort of explore.

[575] And the thing was, the river is big enough that it's loud.

[576] And so she's in the forest and she comes back and she says, yeah, it's beautiful, but I'm sure it's stupid, but I felt like something was watching us.

[577] You can't hear the forest.

[578] And so she's like, I didn't like not being able to hear sticks cracking and bushes moving.

[579] She said, we did notice, though, that the family next to us, though, is like a carbon coffee.

[580] It's two parents and two little boys, little younger than ours, but the kids want to make friends with them tomorrow.

[581] They'll go throw some rocks.

[582] But it was getting to be dinner, so we're getting ready for that.

[583] So later that night, my wife and I are sitting around the fire, and we're commenting on how, like, cannot hear anything around.

[584] You're not getting any of those fun Blair Witch sounds that you usually get with camping.

[585] So we're like, there could be something and you'd never really know.

[586] Oh, God.

[587] We give up on that thought, and we just go to bed.

[588] We have kind of this tent set up where our kids sleep on one side, we sleep in another, and then there's a gap down the center.

[589] We fall asleep around 11.

[590] We wake up at midnight to some commotion happening from the family next door.

[591] And it's weird how the brain works.

[592] Like I remember this story from several years prior where like a little kid had gotten out of the tent in the early morning, hopped in a dinghy, ended up on a river.

[593] I always just thought of it.

[594] It was like the last thing I think about every single time I go camping.

[595] So for whatever reason, I wake up and I'm like, God, they must have lost the kid.

[596] Because it sounds like maybe it's arguing, but it sounds a bit more than arguing.

[597] I kind of wake my wife off.

[598] I'm like, what are they doing over there?

[599] And then we hear two people scream help, like really, really loud at the same time.

[600] Oh, my God.

[601] We pop into action mode, which is really funny because everything shuts down.

[602] We actually couldn't operate the tent zipper.

[603] The simplest tasks are now impossible.

[604] We fumbled around like idiots with the zipper.

[605] And then I get shoes on.

[606] She gives me a lantern.

[607] And it's sort of like goodbye.

[608] Like, I hope this is okay.

[609] You don't have like a mag light.

[610] You don't have bear spray.

[611] You don't have a club.

[612] You don't have a shotgun.

[613] Nothing.

[614] I had many of those things, but I ran past them.

[615] In my mind, we've lost a kid.

[616] He probably went out to the bathroom.

[617] They don't know where he is.

[618] They're rightfully losing their home.

[619] So I get out of the tent with my lantern only.

[620] I run past my bear spray and I hop over my axe.

[621] And I start trudging down the track.

[622] They're about 75 yards.

[623] I don't have a focused flashlight.

[624] My thing is giving off, like, ambient light.

[625] Great for a card game.

[626] Oh, fantastic.

[627] I'm kind of calling out.

[628] Everyone okay?

[629] What's going on?

[630] Help has arrived.

[631] Don't you guys worry.

[632] Everything's fine.

[633] And what I happen upon is they have the back half of a wolf sticking out of their tent.

[634] No. And this thing is just rocking back and forth.

[635] Oh, God.

[636] Like it has something in its mouth?

[637] It does.

[638] His name is Matt.

[639] No!

[640] Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God.

[641] So what had happened to make it even worse is moments prior, this wolf had gotten onto his sight and was sniffing at his tent.

[642] And so he kind of rolled over and he smacked it with his forearm and it clamped on from the outside and then tore its way in.

[643] Oh, my God.

[644] He's now inside on top of his wife, who's now on top of their two kids.

[645] Okay, so it's the dad, though, thank God.

[646] It's not one of the kids.

[647] Exactly.

[648] I've got the best one.

[649] He's on top, but he can't get up.

[650] He can't move because he's in a tent, and the sting is on top of him.

[651] So I run in, and I didn't really take a moment.

[652] I was already running.

[653] I just kind of screamed, and I ran, and I just kicked it in the ass.

[654] As hard as I could.

[655] Yes.

[656] I was kicking in the door, which I've never done before.

[657] This thing was clearly a wolf because it was comically tall.

[658] I'm not a tall person So it was a stretch Like to get him in the ass I was kind of like kicking up at it In my mind it looks cool I bet if anyone saw it It was probably absolutely sure sure Liz Wolfe comes out of the tent now After getting kicked in the ass I didn't hurt it It's really important to note that I think I just made it curious And so I knocked it off its stride He comes out of the tent And he's just massive Like it's just silly And this is the moment where I realize Sort of what I've done And that the next happenings or really more up to the wolf than me. Yeah, the wolf is in charge now.

[659] I knew they were timid.

[660] So I figured if I just get aggressive with it, we should be fine.

[661] And so I kind of challenged it to a fight.

[662] I've never fought a man. Oh, my God.

[663] I think I may have asked it if it wanted a piece of me, which is funny looking back on it.

[664] Did you call it a bitch at any point?

[665] That comes out of your mouth sometimes.

[666] So I gave it my best impression of an agro male.

[667] And it did not seem to give much of a damn.

[668] My new friend, Matt, comes out of the tent.

[669] He's in his underwear and he's covered.

[670] blood and he's holding a shattered tent pole and his eyes are like bigger than his head he's in a fight of his life yeah he's freaking out and the thing about rampart every site the perimeter is lined with these like cantaloupe size rocks and they're white they're painted and so i could easily see them so i start picking up rocks and i just start kind of shot putting at the wolf and i am hitting it like it's hitting it in the head this does not get much of it damn eventually we get it to run off into the forest so we think we're good we're hanging out with mulles who is freaking out.

[671] And, of course, I have this bloody lantern.

[672] So every now and then, you just see this white thing where you're not looking, popping in and out of the forest.

[673] So we're trying to get a circle so we can't get around behind us.

[674] What's up, guys?

[675] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[676] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[677] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[678] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[679] And I don't mean just friends.

[680] I mean the likes of Amy Pollard.

[681] Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[682] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[683] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[684] We've all been there.

[685] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[686] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[687] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[688] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[689] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[690] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[691] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[692] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[693] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[694] My very loose and incomplete understanding of wolves is that they are always in a pack.

[695] Are you thinking like, well, well, there's one, there's five.

[696] I should have thought that.

[697] To give you an idea of where our heads are at, they're trying to find their keys in this upside down tent.

[698] Because they've got to drive to the hospital, right?

[699] That's what's next.

[700] Yeah, pretty much.

[701] They just need to get away from it, really.

[702] So at no point do they realize I have a man. We could just pop back to my husband.

[703] sight it felt like we sat there for five minutes just screaming trying to figure out what to do and eventually was like oh forget the keys we're good so we ran back my wife at this point doesn't know what's going on she's heard me screaming and challenging someone to a fight she may have heard bitch maybe not she may have heard it I don't forget she says she just sees this woman carrying two children screaming running at her is it a domestic what's going on there could be a fucking murderer at the campsite like is she fleeing a side Psychopath?

[704] Exactly.

[705] All these things.

[706] We get them back to my site.

[707] We open up the van.

[708] We get Matt inside.

[709] She starts wrapping his arms, towels because he's leaking everywhere.

[710] I have a seven and nine -year -old.

[711] Currently, you said that his boys were a little younger.

[712] What's their demeanor?

[713] Mine are sleeping.

[714] Theirs are very calm.

[715] See, that was why I asked.

[716] I always wonder this.

[717] I have these terrible, they're not fantasies.

[718] They're nightmares, I guess, but they're waking thoughts.

[719] What if we were fleeing an attacker?

[720] What if we had to hide?

[721] Like, could they get their shit together and stay fucking quiet like would they know instinctually like the shit's really hitting the fans and not a time to cry i'm gonna take a guess because i don't know but i think they would and i only base that on their mom was in absolute shock mode and so there was more than enough reason to lose your absolute mind as a child my feeling is that perhaps the trauma of the whole thing so i think the mind was like i got this i'm just gonna separate you too and so my wife and i are both to have this real good horror story moment where she's looking at me I'm looking at her and our tent is behind me and all of a sudden I see her just look over and her eyes just get big and we look back.

[722] The wolf is now on our side smelling our kids through our tent.

[723] No. No, he's back.

[724] My wife just goes nuts.

[725] She just goes warrior princess.

[726] She's just screaming and arms are everywhere and she sprints at this thing and it worked.

[727] The wolf is like, yeah, fuck this.

[728] I'm out.

[729] I'm not dealing with an angry mom.

[730] Yeah, it turns out the mama bear.

[731] rural works for wolves too.

[732] So it was like, screw this, I'm out.

[733] And he just kind of like pranced off.

[734] That was the last I ever saw of it.

[735] But at this point, New York Todd, who's my neighbor on this side, he comes over with like a bear spray and an axe and he's on a bike and a headlamp.

[736] He's very prepared.

[737] Because his wife is like, this sounds like a murder.

[738] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[739] We decide I'm going to drive the family to find cell service because we're 10 minutes away from a place that I think has self service.

[740] It doesn't, by the way.

[741] there's a guy there.

[742] So she's like, well, you can't leave us.

[743] And so my new friend Todd, he brings them back.

[744] So that's where they stayed for the night.

[745] On my way out, there's a guy coming in, which is really weird, and kind of rolled down the window.

[746] Maybe he was coming in late.

[747] I wasn't sure.

[748] And I said, just so you know, like, there is a wolf attack back there.

[749] But this guy just kind of blows me. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[750] Okay.

[751] And so he leaves.

[752] We drive past this dead porcupine in the middle of the road, which would be important later.

[753] But finally we get to a place It's called Saskatchewan River Crossing.

[754] You can get gas and snacks, and there's even, like, some chalets and stuff.

[755] And so I finally find a security guard who gets us an ambulance from the cops and takes about an hour or two, but we get things settled down.

[756] And we learn from the police officers that one of the conservation officers was scraping up that porcupine and the wolf attacked him on the side of the road, and he was able to shoot it.

[757] Wow.

[758] Same night, probably same wolf.

[759] Yeah.

[760] Same old, same night.

[761] And so by this point, we're safe.

[762] I have to go back to the site now because we don't have anywhere else to stay.

[763] You know the wolf's dead, though, at this point.

[764] Yes.

[765] So I end up back at the site.

[766] And there's two officers now that they've got it all taped off, and they're doing their little thing.

[767] Have you ever slept on an air mat, like one of those tiny little air mattresses, like a pad?

[768] Yes.

[769] The way it works, it's got a little valve on it.

[770] You just open it, and it just sucks air in.

[771] They'd taken all their stuff and they'd put it aside, and they'd rolled it up, and they'd left it against a tree.

[772] And I'm just chatting with the officers at four in the morning at this point.

[773] And I'm like, oh, I was next door.

[774] I kicked him in his asshole.

[775] I'm probably the reason he attacked everyone.

[776] Well, he raises the point that you wrote.

[777] So he says, are you absolutely sure there was only one of them?

[778] And I was like, well, fuck.

[779] I hadn't even considered it technically.

[780] Like, I was so scared the whole time.

[781] And as I'm thinking about it, this rolled up pad filled with too much air and it just unfurls right next to us.

[782] And so that was probably as scary as the world.

[783] Oh, sure.

[784] All three of us just screamed like children.

[785] It was brutal.

[786] So I slept the rest of the night in my van, and the kids slept in New York Todd trailer with my wife.

[787] Who you just Matt, right?

[788] Oh, yeah.

[789] I know very little about New York Todd.

[790] But my favorite story is the next morning.

[791] We're just doing breakfast.

[792] And this guy is at the sight, and he's just walking around.

[793] I walk over to say hi.

[794] And I said, did you hear about our night?

[795] And he's like, oh, yeah, I did.

[796] And I said, oh, yeah.

[797] How did you hear him?

[798] He's like, well, I'm a former Marine, and I'm here on vacation with my girlfriend.

[799] We were in a tent, and we heard all this screaming.

[800] All Canadians find it hilarious, because we find you guys so intense.

[801] Like Americans in general, you're saying.

[802] Yeah, this guy looking right in the eye and he goes, first moment I heard those screams, I knew it was a kidnapping.

[803] I knew it was a kidnapping.

[804] That is the lowest probability.

[805] That was my thing.

[806] And he's like, and I'm already pissed because I couldn't bring my gun in because it's Canada.

[807] So I've got my knife.

[808] So I get into my truck and I drive over.

[809] And there's this guy in this van who comes by and he rolls down his window and he tells me, don't go any further.

[810] There's a wolf attack.

[811] And I look over and there's a bleeding man and his family.

[812] And I'm like, this is a fucking kidnapper.

[813] Oh, my God.

[814] So he thought you were in the middle of your kidnapping, which I was technically taking the family away.

[815] So sort of?

[816] Sure, sure.

[817] His things are all disconnected.

[818] You gotta wonder if this guy himself had been kidnapped because, A, kidnapping is the rarest of things.

[819] It's always apparent.

[820] B, it doesn't ever happen at a campground.

[821] No one's like, you know, I'm going to drive six hours out to a campground.

[822] Hope I get lucky.

[823] No, I think that they could happen at a campsite.

[824] Like, abductions sometimes happen.

[825] Oh, I forgot Monica was obsessed with kidnappings when she was young.

[826] I just remembered.

[827] all kidnappings like anyone that was national she were like praying for people's safe return convinced she was going to get kidnapped I see it could happen it would not ever no kidnapper would ever go I want to kidnap but I want to drive several hours to a completely unknown and uncontrolled environment that I don't know anything about and I haven't case and snatch one there and then be stuck on a two lane road for four hours with this kidnapped kid where the police component it's no it's the last place it's gonna happen I really think there's like a high rate of abduction camping.

[828] At National Parks?

[829] Nobody wants to kidnap an entire family, that's for sure.

[830] Like, maybe a kid.

[831] You want to maybe isolate them.

[832] Yeah.

[833] That's true.

[834] Those walks home from school.

[835] It's a thing.

[836] It's a thing.

[837] Will you ask if he knows the wife's name?

[838] Do you know the wife's name?

[839] Elisa.

[840] We have her, too, that submitted a story.

[841] No fucking dingles.

[842] Oh, my God.

[843] Get out of here.

[844] You join all of them, though, right?

[845] Oh, my God.

[846] No. Can you hear us?

[847] Do you guys see each other?

[848] No, Russ.

[849] Yeah.

[850] How's it going?

[851] God, this is the greatest.

[852] They both submitted the same stories.

[853] You guys submitted the same story.

[854] But we didn't put that together.

[855] Now I feel like I have to go get my husband so he can say I. Yes.

[856] Yes.

[857] Is your husband the American Marine or is her husband?

[858] Matt.

[859] Matt.

[860] Okay.

[861] So Matt took it on the.

[862] arm does he have any scourge i could see he does oh my god this is turning to jerry springer this is a reunion i am shook russ were you expecting this no god this is amazing all right hold on he's shirtless that's actually the only time i've ever seen him is shirtless hold on i'm going to give him one of my ear pods wait wait till you see this he doesn't have any heart issues or anything does he because this could be no no no no it could be a short -circuiting moment who's joined us Hey.

[863] What's all, buddy?

[864] Monica and dad's.

[865] What if the wolf jumped out of the closet and fucking killed Monica and I right now?

[866] So, Russ, you rode in as well?

[867] I had a friend who sent me the link, and he's like, you should totally do this.

[868] Crazy.

[869] He's never even heard of armchair expert.

[870] Not true.

[871] But guys, you know, we're in a very crazy situation where now Monica and I are basically police and Terry.

[872] And we could now have you two tell the story and find out how full of shit Russ is.

[873] No, and also we get to hear inside the tent that Russ doesn't...

[874] A privileged point of view that Russ could only guess at the pandemonium inside the tent.

[875] I can't believe this.

[876] This is incredible.

[877] Okay, I'm going to jump into one quick question, unexpected, but do either of you remember exactly what kind of crazy street talk Russ was throwing at the wolf?

[878] He thinks he has a vague memory of like, it wasn't really appropriate for a wolf per se, but he remembers trying his best to talk, fight talk.

[879] I think that when you came over, you started just yelling at it.

[880] I don't remember specifically.

[881] He thinks he may have said, do you want a piece of me?

[882] Which is so exciting.

[883] He may have said that.

[884] I mean, he gave it a piece of him.

[885] Let's start your story with you're in your tent and you hear some sniffing, I guess.

[886] So let's start there.

[887] So we had all gone to sleep.

[888] It was like 11 .30.

[889] And then I was reading.

[890] And I think I had just fallen asleep because when this kind of all went down very quickly, my candle was still lit.

[891] So what happened was I think I was just drifting into sleep.

[892] And I heard the tent come in.

[893] We were in a small, really lightweight, no extra room.

[894] So I woke up suddenly and then said to Matt, there's something outside of the tent.

[895] And he sat up immediately, which doesn't usually happen.

[896] because I have said to him on many occasions that I thought either something was outside of our tent.

[897] I screamed one night when we were camping that there was a spider on his face and then I realized, like, no way I could have seen a spider.

[898] So, like, I was always a nervous camper anyway.

[899] Suffice to say you've cried wolf a couple times.

[900] Uh -huh.

[901] Exactly.

[902] You are the boy from the story, now.

[903] I treated it a little different this time because we saw a bear.

[904] Yeah.

[905] I had like bear spray right next to my head.

[906] There's so many places you can sleep outdoors without the threat of these major fauna.

[907] I've actually heard you guys talk a couple times about camping and how you think it's ridiculous with a tent.

[908] And I usually would agree.

[909] He's literally said to me so many times that would never happen.

[910] Well, now it's again.

[911] That's what I would say to my wife.

[912] I felt the tent come in.

[913] He sits up.

[914] I mean, it was a second after that that it happened again, but like very violently.

[915] Like it was trying to get in there.

[916] Yes, but we had no idea what it was.

[917] So I screamed, you know, there was something outside.

[918] My immediate thought was there.

[919] You know, we were in grizzly there in country.

[920] So basically what happened was Matt turned around and yelled, like, get back.

[921] And when he did that, the wolf, which we didn't know was wolf, came in and bit down on his hand.

[922] Because he basically pushed the tent back a little.

[923] It was like a pressure feeling that I've never felt before, thankfully.

[924] when that happened, she said I'd, like, screamed her name out.

[925] Maybe almost thinking like, okay, I'm going down, save the family.

[926] Yeah, from then, it was like shit hit the fan fast.

[927] And it was, I mean, I remember, like, the noise, like the loudness of just how violent, the tent shaking and him screaming and me screaming, you know, bloody murder, as Russ could attest to.

[928] I didn't know what was going on at that point.

[929] I think at that point, you had been bitten one more time.

[930] Yeah, I bit my hand, like, twice, and then it, like, both back.

[931] Yeah.

[932] And ripped the rainfly off of the tent.

[933] So that's when we saw that it was a wolf.

[934] Did the wolf let out any noises?

[935] None during this entire scenario.

[936] I didn't hear one growl, nothing.

[937] So I at that point had my younger son who was five at the time and he was pretty little.

[938] So I kind of laid almost on top of him while I was screaming.

[939] And I remember him saying to me, Mom, you're yelling in my ear.

[940] And then my older son, I didn't know where he was.

[941] It was.

[942] It was dark.

[943] And then I heard Matt say, no, no, no, no. I mean, like, screaming.

[944] And I thought that the wolf had my son.

[945] Of course.

[946] I yell, no, no, no, because my son, from us screaming, I'm sure, sits up and pushes himself.

[947] That kind of scooted back.

[948] Back in the tent, which is right where the wolf space is.

[949] So I grabbed his sleeping bed with my left hand and threw him across to the other side of the tent.

[950] And when I turned and threw him, that's when he hit the back of my under arm.

[951] Literally, a half a second, from biting my son.

[952] And at that point, I don't know, my brain switched over, and I kind of changed it from my family to I tried to get more aggressive, as aggressive as it could be.

[953] The human brain in our evolution is like, you try to avoid, you try to avoid.

[954] There is a moment when you are engaged in a long enough fight where you're like, well, I'm in this fight.

[955] So I really only have one option, which is now fight back.

[956] I'm pretty good at problem solving through stressful situations.

[957] When he bit me, I tried punching him first with like two punches and it felt so weak and didn't seem to care at all.

[958] So then I tried to pin it.

[959] I had his jaw and I just laid on top of its head so it couldn't keep biting me. During all of this, I'm still screaming.

[960] And I see Matt slowly dragged out of the tent.

[961] And I grabbed onto his ankles and started pulling back because I thought that the wolf was dragging him away.

[962] I think at this point, enter Russ.

[963] I was screaming like, help.

[964] you know, we're being attacked to help my kids.

[965] Like, I mean, just screaming anything I could think of.

[966] And I reached out and drank one of the tent stays that holds the tent up because it was snapped on the ground.

[967] I remember thinking like, wow, my hand words.

[968] Because I'm just surprised I could even use my right hand to grab on to something.

[969] And I grabbed it and I snacked it in the face.

[970] I didn't hear somebody come.

[971] I just felt the wolf literally just go fly.

[972] You witnessed Russ giving him a piece of him.

[973] That promised.

[974] Holy smokes.

[975] Well, that really matches up nicely.

[976] Yeah.

[977] I feel like we can...

[978] It's filled in a good gap.

[979] We're not going to move forward with charges against either of you.

[980] It all sounds like self -defense and really holds up.

[981] This is the best thing that's happened on this show.

[982] What kismet?

[983] It's impossible.

[984] So we know the rest of the story.

[985] One thing I was most curious about, Russell tell you, is I was really immediately curious what the demeanor of the two boys was.

[986] I remember them being silent.

[987] Yeah.

[988] That's comforting to me, to be honest.

[989] I always am fearful that I'd be dealing with both some crazy tragedy and two screaming kids, and that would just be too much.

[990] I do remember them listening because once Russ came and we stood up finally, and then, of course, the wolf was tracking Matt the entire time in Russ and Matt or, you know, for in the boulders.

[991] I was telling the kids to get behind me because now I'm like, oh, my God, how about if this wolf sees my kid?

[992] So I'm kind of in front of them and they were completely silent, did what we said.

[993] The year after is really where it changes.

[994] So, like, you look at the four of us, and it's completely different personalities.

[995] For me, I needed to get over it right away.

[996] So I was camping three weeks later in Colorado, and my oldest son took that same approach a little bit.

[997] A year later, he said, I'm ready.

[998] We camped inside in the tank, and we camped on a deck, and we camped in the yard, and then we went backpacking in upstate New York.

[999] Okay, so I guess that answers my question, at least for you guys.

[1000] knowing that I hate when people say to me, wow, so after all your surgeries from the track accident, do you sell your motorcycle?

[1001] And I'm like, I bought a new one and I still go to the track and it, of course, infuriates people and I don't like being asked it.

[1002] With that said, do you still go camping?

[1003] I guess you do, Matt, but Russ, do you?

[1004] We had the sit down moment where it was sort of like camping is what we do.

[1005] Without it, we kind of don't have much else.

[1006] We always do want to teach the boys to like get back up on the horse somewhat.

[1007] We also want to teach the boys that we get scared, that it's okay to be scared, and that's a normal thing to do.

[1008] And we don't have a lot of high expectations for them.

[1009] We just want them to be nice.

[1010] We want them to give a damn about nature.

[1011] And we couldn't figure out a way to do that with camp.

[1012] So probably around the same time, Matt was off to Colorado.

[1013] The four of us did go back to the wilderness.

[1014] And yeah, a very similar experience where we sat the kids down and told them, this is the thing I'm feeling.

[1015] But I think it's important that we show you guys that this is a safe activity.

[1016] And truthfully, by the time we got there and got set up, it was way, way better.

[1017] Sleep was a little hard that night, but we did try to get right back into it.

[1018] And you had that powerful kick anyways?

[1019] Yeah, we've already proven that it's fine.

[1020] I have not.

[1021] Yeah, I don't think you need to.

[1022] But has it changed either of your protocol?

[1023] Like, do you guys sleep with weapons by you now?

[1024] Anything changed that way?

[1025] Like, your approach?

[1026] Yeah, for a while I encountered a knife or even when I was back, I think I started having a knife that hung from my little necklace one because the whole time I thought I need something to fight with and I couldn't get to the bear spray and then I even thought during the incident well if I did get the bear spray I can't spray in the tent anyway so like I needed something to fight back I've stopped doing that I've gotten comfortable again but it took a while honestly how about you Russ I have an act in the tent now and it's always in the exact same place every now and then I'll just kind of reach over and just kind of like practice grabbing it I'm really weird about it now, but the tent zippers have to be in the exact same place.

[1027] So if anyone who asks with my zipper, I like, call them over and it's like, no, you can't.

[1028] Yeah, I remember you said you couldn't get it open.

[1029] Like, I want to be able to find it with my eyes closed.

[1030] And have you all ever seen each other again in real life?

[1031] We hung out shortly after.

[1032] We were kind of stuck in Canada for about a week after this happened.

[1033] We had a two -week vacation planned, and I think this happened on day like seven.

[1034] Matt had to get a couple of rabies shots.

[1035] So we stayed in Canada, and we saw Russ and his family two days before.

[1036] we left.

[1037] We got together.

[1038] Tried to process.

[1039] Wow.

[1040] It was crazy afterwards.

[1041] It was a lot.

[1042] We did send the nice wolf blanket to him.

[1043] That was my dog's favorite blanket for like an entire year before she ate it.

[1044] So yeah, we share Christmas gifts every year now.

[1045] We send like maple themed things.

[1046] That's so nice.

[1047] I think we sent you guys wolf cupcakes.

[1048] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1049] They were like printed.

[1050] It was really terrifying.

[1051] It was like six wolves.

[1052] Oh, how fun.

[1053] What a bonding.

[1054] I'm telling you.

[1055] You know, I'm kind of.

[1056] I'm kind of thinking, like, you tell this exact same story, and it involves a human, and all of you guys are fucked up for life.

[1057] Oh, yeah.

[1058] Like, this happens in your home.

[1059] It's equally as life -threatening.

[1060] And I'm just trying to compute why it is.

[1061] I know why.

[1062] Is it because you can avoid wolves if you, is that what it is?

[1063] And so you can't trust anyone.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] How many more wolves are you going to run into, hopefully zero?

[1066] That's exactly what I said about camping.

[1067] A person could get into our tent so easily.

[1068] I think it just makes you realize.

[1069] how exposed you are, just in general, and it just kind of like snowballs from there.

[1070] The tent is a mental extension of the blanket when you're a kid.

[1071] Like you're afraid when you're a kid, you put the blanket over your head.

[1072] You convince yourself, yeah, no boogeyman's possibly getting through this fucking sheet.

[1073] I've been in that tent, and I've thought, yeah, the animal won't come through that thing.

[1074] What's weird for me is the what if scenario got me more than the actual event itself.

[1075] Well, you also kind of learn in these situations how much it falls down to luck, how you can't really be that prepared for it, even if you do all the right things and act all the right ways.

[1076] I think Mike Tyson said everyone's got a game plan in a fight until they get punched in the face.

[1077] It's like once you're in one of those situations and you start recognizing how chaotic it is and how hard it is to execute any kind of game plan, I think it does forever inform how you are in those situations.

[1078] Yeah, everybody said to us, I'm sure you heard this too, Russ, you had a better chance of getting struck by lightning.

[1079] Like, this is so rare.

[1080] I think this is one of four that has ever happened in Canada, like on document.

[1081] I start thinking that way about everything.

[1082] Like that's kind of where that like snowballed for me. And it's still hard.

[1083] Right.

[1084] Like, oh, if a one in a 10 million thing happened to me, then why wouldn't no one and two million thing happened to me?

[1085] My disposition is Matt, like, well, we were in a plane crash.

[1086] That won't happen again in our lifetime.

[1087] Even though I don't think that's technically how it works.

[1088] No, it's not.

[1089] Well, guys, this has been a riot at your expense.

[1090] I'm sorry you all went through that, and yet I'm also jealous you all went through that.

[1091] It's a very complicated cognitive dissonance I'm having.

[1092] I love that you guys stayed in touch.

[1093] And you're both here together.

[1094] And Rush, you're a fucking hero.

[1095] I'm looking at a dude with guitars hung behind him.

[1096] I don't know if your fantasy of yourself was you're like, you were a hero, and you're a goddamn hero.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] There was people in other campgrounds that ran into their horns when we were calling for help.

[1099] Sure?

[1100] He stepped over his family and came to help us.

[1101] There was nothing like that.

[1102] Oh, well, guys, it was.

[1103] incredible meeting all of you and thank you so much for sharing that crazy improbable thing you all went through thank you for talking with us thank for having me and it was so fun i'm so glad the stereotype is true these canadians are so goddamn nice oh my gosh so nice pleasure to meet all y 'all and i hope the wolf -shaped cupcakes keep coming in over the holidays and you keep the love alive take care thank you bye i think nate needs an introduction first and foremost we have a really special guest.

[1104] Yeah, I've had best friend Aaron Winkley, ride or die.

[1105] And then I've had two Aaron Winklies in my time in California, Scott Johnson, and they talk bestest friends.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] For 20 some years, met in the ground lanes.

[1108] Yeah, it's amazing hearing the Aaron Weekly stories from Aaron.

[1109] After I spent 20 years hearing them as stories third hand, and I will say how accurate the retelling was.

[1110] Right, because most of the stories sound absolutely impossible.

[1111] Insomely impossible.

[1112] Let's do yours.

[1113] I told one of your stories last episode.

[1114] Which one?

[1115] It was about people pooping their pants.

[1116] I didn't name any names, but I said there was a big bar fight and he got blasted so hard that he fucking shit his pants.

[1117] But that's not even the punchline is that he cleared the fight out.

[1118] The fight stopped immediately.

[1119] Everybody ran for the doors because.

[1120] Toxic waste was on the scene.

[1121] I'm going to preface this because I could say this at the end, but I'd rather say it at the beginning so you can enjoy the story.

[1122] You're a young man. You think your role in life is to protect your family and your sister.

[1123] And we're stupid when we're young.

[1124] Yes.

[1125] And in this story, neither of us would condone and you wouldn't repeat.

[1126] No way.

[1127] But alas, at that age, you think you're going to be called in to save your family at any point.

[1128] Because I've seen a lot of movies.

[1129] Read a lot of stories.

[1130] And in my mind, as a suburban kid in the Bay Area, there were certain things I had to do.

[1131] Of course.

[1132] It was 92.

[1133] And it was summertime.

[1134] And it was really hot.

[1135] The back door that enters into the backyard, I was painting it, which is so weird.

[1136] I didn't really paint very much, but I was painting.

[1137] It was super hot, so I took my shirt off.

[1138] I had no shoes on, no socks on, no shirt on, and just boxers.

[1139] Oh, my God.

[1140] And you're sweating up a storm.

[1141] It's so hot outside.

[1142] Now, inside is my sister, my brother.

[1143] Mary.

[1144] Matt, Mikey.

[1145] Marsh.

[1146] And Dave.

[1147] And they're inside watching TV or watching a movie or something.

[1148] Now that I think about it, why was I outside working?

[1149] But anyway, I am.

[1150] I walk inside the garage.

[1151] and I'm about to open the door into the house to wash my brush off and I hear something rustling by the kitty litter and I thought it was a cat.

[1152] I'm like wimpy Wimpy, come on inside.

[1153] No answer no movement but the rustling continued.

[1154] I was like, what is that?

[1155] And I flip on the light and I look over and there is a snake crawling over the kitty litter bag.

[1156] All I saw was the body of it.

[1157] It was between two luggage pieces and I was like oh it looks like a garter snake but it was big it was thick and it continues and it continues and then the tale was revealed, there's a rattle.

[1158] And I go, and I go, Rattler!

[1159] And listen to this, I yell it outside the door, and here's what I hear in the house.

[1160] Bullshit!

[1161] No!

[1162] Swear to God.

[1163] I'm like, no, no, there's a rattler!

[1164] In my mind, I'm like, this thing's in the garage.

[1165] If I don't kill it now, someone's going to come out and get bit.

[1166] Mary.

[1167] Is that your mom?

[1168] We need a little bit.

[1169] Who was there?

[1170] She was there.

[1171] So they all come out.

[1172] My friends and my brother and my sister come out, and they're all with a door.

[1173] And it was like a sitcom where, like, you know, the heads are like popping out around the corner all lined up.

[1174] And I mean, remember, no shoes, no socks.

[1175] Oh, fuck.

[1176] Just boxers.

[1177] It's the no shoes.

[1178] It's in the garage.

[1179] Because you have a fantasy.

[1180] You could step on it.

[1181] Well, I thought about this many times before this time.

[1182] Of course.

[1183] Yeah, right?

[1184] Because I lived in a canyon.

[1185] We've been preparing for this.

[1186] We lived in a canyon.

[1187] So we had talked about rattles, I've seen rattles snakes.

[1188] Okay, so I grab a shovel.

[1189] in my mind, I'm like, I'm going to kill it with the shovel.

[1190] I'm going to cut its head off and bury the head because I heard you're supposed to do that.

[1191] Why?

[1192] Because then somebody might...

[1193] Because it can't regrow?

[1194] Even if it's dead, if you step on the head, it can still bite you.

[1195] Oh, it has the venom sacs.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] Okay.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] So I thought.

[1200] Sure.

[1201] So we've heard.

[1202] So I grabbed the shovel and everyone's like, what are you doing?

[1203] What are you doing?

[1204] I'm like, I got to kill it.

[1205] I got to kill it.

[1206] And...

[1207] God.

[1208] So I kind of move one of the luggage pieces out of the way.

[1209] And there it is sitting in a cubby about two feet by three feet and I grabbed the shovel and I was so nervous I didn't think about anything I didn't think about that I wasn't wearing any shoes I wasn't thinking of any of that No, it's life or death Yeah and I move the shovel towards it It is just sticking its tongue out And of course I'm like Oh you felt a little pang of ethics I'm already guilt I was guilty of yes I was like that's who I am I'm like maybe I'll just knock it out Oh Okay and transfer it I'm 21 years old And I'm like maybe I'll just knock it out.

[1210] I turn the...

[1211] All of a sudden, you're a herpetologist, you know how?

[1212] I turned the flat head of the shovel towards a snake, and I rear back, but I can only rear back this far because in a cubby.

[1213] Yeah, so you're 18 inches, maybe.

[1214] And I'm standing in the first carport, which has oil all over the floor.

[1215] I just gave it all I had, I went, boom, and I slip, both feet go off from under me. I land, I go, boom, shovel drops, and all I hear is this.

[1216] Oh, my God.

[1217] And a rattle doesn't sound like you thinking.

[1218] It doesn't sound like, it sounds like, it sounds like, shh.

[1219] Oh, my God.

[1220] Everybody goes, this, everyone goes, ah!

[1221] They all run away.

[1222] Everybody who runs away.

[1223] Assholes and elbows, every man for himself.

[1224] Somebody get married.

[1225] I'm on my back.

[1226] The shovel's down.

[1227] I'm like, oh, oh, yelling.

[1228] I get back up.

[1229] I grab the shovel.

[1230] I don't know where it is.

[1231] Where is it?

[1232] But it's so loud and it's so pissed off.

[1233] I was so pissed off.

[1234] And I moved some luggage out of the way, and there it is.

[1235] And now it's coiled up in the corner, and it's ready to fight.

[1236] And I was like, that makes it so much scarier.

[1237] Yes.

[1238] And then as I approach with the shovel again, it strikes the shovel.

[1239] So fast that the timing is this.

[1240] It goes, and then I move it, like three seconds later.

[1241] I'm so slow with the shovel, so much faster than me. You're barefoot.

[1242] Everyone's left you.

[1243] They're gone.

[1244] Are they calling like nine?

[1245] They're just freaked down.

[1246] Are you okay?

[1247] I'm like, I wasn't even responding.

[1248] I was so scared.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] And then I stood there and I'm like, this is it.

[1251] And I got as close as I could.

[1252] I closed my eyes and kind of laid my head back.

[1253] And I just went and started smashing.

[1254] Shopping.

[1255] This is where I started to feel terrible.

[1256] It was a blood bath.

[1257] It was bouncing around.

[1258] I was going, and I had my head lean back.

[1259] And then I stuck it.

[1260] I could feel I stuck it.

[1261] And I saw it and I looked and then the head was kind of tilted back.

[1262] and I just started sawing.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] And I go halfway through and I'm like, all right, I think I'm okay.

[1265] And I finished it, cut its head off, open the garage door, and I'm like, I'm going to go pick it up with gloves, the head, and I'm going to take out and bury the head.

[1266] She's still with that plan.

[1267] I would have to dady -six that plan at this point.

[1268] I walk outside and the mailman, I'm not kidding.

[1269] Mailman Bob with a great gold necklace around, mustache, chewing gum.

[1270] He's like, go on down there.

[1271] I'm like, I just killed a room.

[1272] rattlesnakes.

[1273] I was so, I was adrenalized.

[1274] Yes.

[1275] And he goes, so rattlesnakes around here.

[1276] I go, what?

[1277] Oh, no, you're a liar.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] Now, I walk in, I grab the snake, and this is where, like, my 21 -year -old, bravado.

[1280] Man versus beast.

[1281] Yes.

[1282] And man won.

[1283] Yes.

[1284] And I walked out, and I go, oh, I hold it up in the air like this, and there it is dangling from my hand, and Mailman Bob's like, oh, wow.

[1285] He couldn't believe.

[1286] Yes.

[1287] It was actually a rattlesnake.

[1288] Oh, my God.

[1289] And this young, skinny, tall man. Covered in fucking sweat and oil and his underpants.

[1290] For that moment, I felt like I did it.

[1291] Yeah.

[1292] Like a gladiator.

[1293] But remember the guilt I had at the beginning, then it came in real heavy.

[1294] That night my dad's having a poker party with his brothers and friends.

[1295] Okay.

[1296] And Uncle George comes up and he goes, hey, I heard you killed a rattlesnake today.

[1297] And I said, yeah.

[1298] You wouldn't believe.

[1299] I started to tell a story.

[1300] He goes, well, you should have probably called the SPCA and they could have come picked it up and put it back out in the wild.

[1301] Then I felt so bad.

[1302] He brought a little reality.

[1303] I was seeing Uncle George could have it to you.

[1304] Let the young man have it.

[1305] But another thing happened, Matt's brother was there, my buddy's younger brother.

[1306] And to this day, when I see him, he's like, this is Nate.

[1307] This is the guy who killed the rattlesnake.

[1308] Oh, my God.

[1309] Because he was a young kid at St. Patrick.

[1310] Drove the snakes out of Ireland.

[1311] You know, there's three or four people there who, it was a big moment in their lives.

[1312] A seminal.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] Yeah.

[1315] I'm surprised when you say you wouldn't do that again.

[1316] Well, I just felt so bad about it.

[1317] But he was going to bite all of you guys.

[1318] That's what I said.

[1319] I mean, at the end of the day, I was like, someone will get bit.

[1320] The cat will die.

[1321] The movies and the books I read about rattlesnake.

[1322] I was like, I was sure that if you come across a rattlesnake, it's going to coil up and strike you.

[1323] Not in a relaxing manner, lick your shovel and be like, oh, what's this?

[1324] It just wanted to come out of the heat.

[1325] It just wanted to cool off.

[1326] Yeah, everyone was suffering that day.

[1327] It was going to kill you.

[1328] In my mind, it was.

[1329] If not you, Mary, was going to go down for sure.

[1330] But to Dax's point, I swear to God, in my mind, it was like, I got to do this.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] Because I have to protect myself and my family.

[1333] And, yes, this moment right now defines who I am for the rest of my life.

[1334] I back down from this.

[1335] I will back down from everything ad nauseum, infinitum.

[1336] Yes.

[1337] In perpetuity.

[1338] Is it made a hero?

[1339] You're a hero.

[1340] Also, my favorite part's obviously, the slipping on the.

[1341] the oil.

[1342] I mean, can you think...

[1343] You've got to see him when he's telling that story standing up.

[1344] First of all, the choice to try to knock it out.

[1345] I know.

[1346] Yeah.

[1347] But you're in fight or flight a little bit.

[1348] Exactly.

[1349] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1350] I'll knock it out, stun it, and then kill it.

[1351] And also, you'll have some sense of how long it's stunned.

[1352] Right.

[1353] Like, what is that?

[1354] A five second window you have?

[1355] Is it a half hour?

[1356] Everyone watching you and screaming when you fell out.

[1357] Oh.

[1358] Well, they found out who they were that day as well.

[1359] every man for themselves.

[1360] But what are you supposed to do?

[1361] Like, I would have been like, I got to call 911.

[1362] Sure.

[1363] But that's a dumb thing to do.

[1364] Well, I don't know.

[1365] I'm sure someone will comment that that you should call exactly what uncle.

[1366] What was the new?

[1367] Or Dougal George said.

[1368] You should call SBCA and they'll come.

[1369] I would have to know that there's an agency called SPCCA to then look them up in the phone book in 93 and then get them out there.

[1370] Well, it's.

[1371] Well, Mary's inside.

[1372] Start around.

[1373] Yeah, exactly.

[1374] Well, my sister, whom I've been.

[1375] obliged to protect is cowering one in her bedroom with the door locked you're yelling look up bridal snake behavior so that's it all right i love you love you too what a great introduction to nate tuck yes do want to sing a tune or something we know a theme song oh okay great we don't have a song for this new show so here i go go go we're gonna ask some random questions and with the help of armcherry's will get some suggestions on the flyer rindish on the flyer rindish enjoy follow armchair expert on the wondery app amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining wondry plus in the wondry app or on apple podcasts before you go tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondry .com slash survey.