The Worst Kidnappers in Australia

[0] In 2008, a young man was driving along a dirt road in a forest when he spotted up ahead this large, strange -looking animal that he didn't recognize that appeared to be dead on the side of the road.

[1] And so curious what it was, he drove past the dead animal, and he stopped his car, and he got out and began walking back up the road towards the animal to see what it was.

[2] And when he got right on top of it, he crouched down to get a better look, and as he did, he heard the sound of something moving behind him.

[3] And then before he could turn around, everything went black.

[4] Today's podcast is the remastered audio from a popular video on my YouTube channel called The Worst Kidnappers in Australia.

[5] The link to that video is in the description.

[6] This story contains sexual content.

[7] As such, listener discretion is advised.

[8] But before we get into today's story, if you're a fan of the Strange, Dark, and Mysterious, delivered in story format, then you've come to the right podcast because that's all we do.

[9] And we upload twice a week, once on Monday and once on Thursday.

[10] So, if that's of interest to you, please invite the five -star review button to come on over your house for a nice, fun, casual game night, and as soon as they step inside, immediately ambush them, handcuff them to the bed, and have a priest perform an exorcism on them.

[11] Also, please subscribe to the Mr. Boland podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don't miss any of our weekly uploads.

[12] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[13] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York, a mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[14] What's the answer?

[15] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[16] Hysterical.

[17] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[18] Binge all episodes of Hesterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[19] Okay, let's get into today's story.

[20] In 2008, 22 -year -old Julian Buchwald was living in a small rural town in southern Australia called Budgery.

[21] He lived there with his parents who owned a small house on a massive 1 ,200 -acre plot of land, which, for reference is about two square miles.

[22] However, this land was made up mostly of thick brush and forested areas, so for the most part, they just stayed close to their actual house.

[23] However, there was a waterfall deep into the woods on their property that periodically they would go to visit.

[24] Less than a 20 -minute drive north of budgery was another small rural town called Churchill, and in that town was Julian's girlfriend, 17 -year -old Carolyn Watson, who also lived with her parents.

[25] The young couple had met two years earlier at the church they both went to.

[26] They were both very devout Christians, and their plan was to get married the next year when Carolyn turned 18 and was done with her studies.

[27] On Tuesday, March 4th of that year, Julian and Carolyn decided to go out and have a picnic lunch at the waterfall on Julian's family's property.

[28] So early that afternoon, Julian left his house, he hopped in the family car, he drove north to Churchill, he picked up Carolyn, And then he drove her back to his family's property, where he turned onto a dirt road that would take them into the forest to the waterfall.

[29] At some point, along this short, bumpy road through the forest, Julian was looking out ahead of the car when he spotted what looked like roadkill on the side of the road.

[30] And this roadkill, it looked bigger than he was used to seeing in this area.

[31] And so he stared at it as the car kind of rolled past it, and right after they had driven past the roadkill, he turned to Carolyn and said, you know, hey, there's some really weird road kill on the side of the road right over there.

[32] And so Carolyn, who really didn't care, she kind of slowly looked up and turned around and looked, but she didn't see it.

[33] And then after that, the two of them did not discuss the roadkill any further.

[34] And so Julian just continued to drive along this dirt road until the road kind of opened up into this big clearing.

[35] And in the middle of this clearing, which was basically this field, there was a small pond with a 10 -foot -high waterfall feeding into it.

[36] This was the waterfall.

[37] And so Julian parked the car right at the end of the dirt road, right on the edge of this clearing.

[38] And he and Carolyn got out.

[39] They went around to the back of the car.

[40] They got their picnic supplies out of the trunk.

[41] And they set up their picnic lunch right on the edge of this pond looking up at this waterfall.

[42] And they were there for about an hour, just kind of enjoying each other's company.

[43] And then around 2 .30 p .m., they realized it was time to go because they had told their family they'd be back by three.

[44] And so they packed up all of their picnic stuff.

[45] They went back to the car.

[46] They put it back in the trunk.

[47] They hopped back inside the car.

[48] Julian turned it on.

[49] He turned the car around.

[50] And they began driving back down the dirt road that had brought them in.

[51] And as soon as they began driving down this road, Julian remembered the strange roadkill he had seen on their way in.

[52] And he decided that he wanted to stop and get out and actually go up to it.

[53] And so as they're driving along, he looks over at Carolyn and says, hey, do you mind if I stop the car when I see the road kill so I can go look at it?

[54] Carolyn looked at him and she's like, okay, but remember, we have to be back by 3 p .m. That's what we told our families, so please be quick.

[55] And so Julian said, no problem.

[56] And so he continued driving along, scanning for this roadkill.

[57] But after driving for several minutes, he had not found the roadkill yet.

[58] And he started to become worried that he had just driven past it without realizing it.

[59] And so he stopped the car.

[60] They're pretty close to the end of the Sturt Road.

[61] They're almost back to Julian's property.

[62] But he stops the car right in the middle of the Sturt Road.

[63] and he turns to Carolyn and says, hey, you know, I think I drove past it.

[64] Do you mind if I just hop out and run back?

[65] And so Carolyn was totally annoyed that this roadkill viewing was really becoming quite involved.

[66] But she says, okay, go, but again, you got to be quick because, you know, it's almost 3 p .m. And so Julian kind of grinned at her.

[67] He put the car in park, and he hopped out, he turned, and he began jogging back down the road in the direction of the waterfall.

[68] And after jogging for maybe 30 seconds or so, the road had turned to the right.

[69] So from where he was on the road, if he turned around, he would not have been able to see his car or Carolyn.

[70] He was kind of deep in the thick of this forest.

[71] But he knew, you know, this road is not very long.

[72] And so I'm sure the roadkill has got to be up here somewhere.

[73] And so he decided he would just continue running along back along this road for maybe one or two more minutes.

[74] And if he didn't find the roadkill by then, he'd just have to give up, turn around, and head back to the car.

[75] And so he began jogging, continuing towards the waterfall on this dirt road.

[76] And sure enough, after about a minute, he spots off to the side the road kill.

[77] And so he runs up to it and right away he sees it's this huge animal that's right on the side of the road.

[78] There was a branch from a tree that had kind of obscured the carcass a little bit.

[79] And he figured that's why on the return trip he hadn't seen it because this branch was kind of blocking it from view.

[80] And so standing over it, still not even sure what it is, he reached down and he moved the branch, the tree branch out of the way to get a better look at this big dead animal.

[81] And right as he did that, everything went black.

[82] A few minutes later, Carolyn, who was still sitting in the car waiting for her boyfriend to come back, looked at her watch and realized it was getting really close to 3 p .m. And still, Julian was not back yet.

[83] And so feeling kind of annoyed with him, she sat up in her seat and turned around and looked out the rear window of the car, expecting to see Julian come bounding down the road toward her.

[84] But when she looked out the back window, all she saw was this dirt road that kind of bent off.

[85] to the right out of view and thick trees everywhere.

[86] Her boyfriend is nowhere to be seen.

[87] Annoyed, she turned back around and sat facing forward again, but began periodically looking in the side view mirror, expecting Julian to pop up at any moment.

[88] But after several more minutes went by, and still, Julian had not come back yet, her annoyance turned into concern.

[89] You know, was Julian actually okay?

[90] And so she decided, you know, it's almost 3 p .m. now.

[91] We got to get back.

[92] I need to get out and actually go investigate and see what's going on with Julian and this roadkill.

[93] And so she opened her car door, she stepped outside, she stood up, she turned, and she looked down the road in the direction it turned to the right towards the waterfall, and she froze.

[94] Because there was something standing right in the middle of the road that her brain simply couldn't process.

[95] She wanted to turn and run.

[96] She wanted to scream for help, but she couldn't.

[97] She was just frozen with fear, staring at.

[98] at this thing in the middle of the road.

[99] And then seconds later, this thing that she saw in the road began moving toward her.

[100] Around 3 .30 p .m. that day, Julian's mother, who was at the house, realized her son had still not come back from his picnic.

[101] And this was very unlike him.

[102] He was extremely punctual.

[103] And so she stepped out onto the front porch to wait for him.

[104] But after waiting on the front porch for 30 minutes and him not showing up again, she got really concerned.

[105] And so she left the porch and went down onto their driveway and their driveway extended right up to the main road that ran along the front of the house.

[106] And when she reached the top of her driveway, she just turned and watched down the main road waiting for her son to come back.

[107] Because in order to get to the waterfall, you had to get on this main road and then turn onto that dirt road that was a little ways down this main road.

[108] And so she's just standing there looking down the road, waiting for her son, but he's still not coming out of that dirt road.

[109] And as she's looking in this direction, she happens to glance along the chain link fence that ran along the front of her property.

[110] And she noticed there was a plastic bottle that had been jammed through one of the chain links.

[111] And so she decided she would just go over and see what it was because it didn't make any sense that there would be a bottle in her fence.

[112] And so she walks over, she pulls the bottle out of the fence, and she realizes there is a tightly rolled piece of paper that's inside of the bottle.

[113] And so she unscrews the cap, she turns the bottle over, and she pour.

[114] this little piece of paper out, she unfurls the piece of paper and sees there's writing on it, and as she's reading it, her heart starts to race and she covers her mouth.

[115] This note was clearly intended for her to read or someone in the family to read that day because it was about what happened to Julian and Carolyn that day.

[116] The note, which was covered in all these strange satanic symbols, and was barely understandable because the grammar and spelling was so terrible.

[117] it generally communicated that Julian and Carolyn, who they called the boy and the girl, had been kidnapped.

[118] And so long as the family did not contact police, they, the boy and the girl, Julian and Carolyn, would be returned.

[119] It didn't really specify what they were going to do to them, and there was no ransom.

[120] It basically just said, you better not tell police or else.

[121] Well, Julian's mother was terrified.

[122] She had no idea what to do.

[123] And despite this threat of some sort of harm to her, to her children, to her family, if she went to police, she still called the police.

[124] And so the police, they came out to her property, they inspected the note, and right away, they noticed at the bottom of the note, it was signed with the initials ONA.

[125] And so those initials, combined with these strange satanic symbols all over it, led police to discover who ONA was.

[126] ONA was a cult.

[127] It was the order of nine angles, and they are a self -professed satanic cult that operates primarily in Europe, but also has chapters in the United States, in Canada, in Russia, and also in Australia.

[128] This cult believes that Christians are the enemy of the world, and they need to be destroyed in order to institute a militaristic new world order they called the Imperium.

[129] And if that wasn't frightening enough, this cult openly advocates for and apparently practices human sacrifice.

[130] They have come out, and said the people they kill in these sacrifices are people they consider lesser -thans, basically the bad people of society.

[131] And if you are an ONA cult member, then who better to sacrifice than Julian and Carolyn, two devout Christians.

[132] And so two clear enemies of the ONA.

[133] Now, at first, when the police saw this note and kind of put this together, they're thinking this has got to be a prank.

[134] I mean, Carolyn and Julian have only been gone for a couple of.

[135] of hours at this point, and all we have is this note in a bottle stuck into the fence.

[136] This does not seem like some huge conspiracy of a cult coming in here and snatching these kids to commit some human sacrifice.

[137] But when Carolyn's parents found out about this note and how they were still missing, they would tell the police, 10 days ago, we received a letter in the mail that had strange satanic symbols all over it, and it really didn't make any sense.

[138] It basically was threatening them not to go to police, but 10 days ago, they had no reason to go to police.

[139] And so they just didn't really understand why they received this message or who had sent it.

[140] And so they had just kind of dismissed it and not told anyone.

[141] But now, with these two notes looking nearly identical, it seemed fairly obvious that whether it was the ONA or some other person or group, whoever was behind the kidnapping of Julian and Carolyn had clearly been watching both of their properties prior to the attack, which meant this was likely a more sophisticated kidnapping than it seemed.

[142] So that evening, the police launched this huge air and land search all over Julian's family's property, but despite looking everywhere, they found no sign of the young couple.

[143] There was just nothing.

[144] And over the next few days, when still there was just no sign of Julian or Carolyn, and there was no more word coming in from ONA, there were no more bottles stuck in fences or stuck in mailboxes, the police began to prepare for the worst.

[145] Then something totally unexpected happened.

[146] On March 11th, so seven days after Carolyn and Julian went missing, a farmer was driving along this winding back road up in the mountains right near Alpine National Park.

[147] Alpine National Park is this very rugged, mountainous place that's about 250 miles to the north of budgery.

[148] And so as this guy is driving along this road, which is very heavily forested on either side, he sees up ahead this young man and young woman who are barely wearing any clothes comes stumbling out of the forest and kind of plop down on the side of the road.

[149] And so concerned they're hurt or they're lost or something.

[150] The farmer rolled right up next to them and he rolled his window down and asked, you know, hey, are you guys okay?

[151] And they got up and they kind of stumbled their way over to the car and they introduced themselves as Carolyn and Julian and they pleaded for his help.

[152] And so the farmer helped them into his car and he drove them to the hospital.

[153] It wasn't long before the police in budgery learned that Carolyn and Julian had been found and they were alive.

[154] And so very quickly, they rushed up to that hospital near the National Park.

[155] And when they got there, they spoke to doctors who would say, you know, Carolyn and Julian are very traumatized.

[156] They're horribly sunburned.

[157] They're covered in bug bites.

[158] They got cuts and bruises all over them.

[159] But they're okay.

[160] They're going to survive.

[161] And so the police went into Julian and Carolyn's room.

[162] And at first, you know, they just talked to them for a couple of minutes to really see that they're going.

[163] were okay.

[164] And after feeling pretty confident that they were, they said, look, you know, I don't mean to just jump right into the trauma you've just experienced.

[165] But we really need any information you can give us about what just happened.

[166] Who did this to you?

[167] Who brought you out here?

[168] Because if it's ONA and they're out in the Alpine National Park, we need to know about it, we need to get out there, and we need to stop them.

[169] And so Julian and Carolyn would both independently sit down and tell the police what happened to them.

[170] And so the following is the combined story of these two accounts that they gave police.

[171] I'm Dan Tibersky.

[172] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[173] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[174] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[175] She's like, I can't.

[176] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[177] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[178] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[179] Everybody thought I was holding something.

[180] back.

[181] Well, you were holding something back.

[182] Intentionally.

[183] Yeah, yeah.

[184] Well, yeah.

[185] No, it's hysteria.

[186] It's all in your head.

[187] It's not physical.

[188] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[189] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[190] Or is it something else entirely?

[191] Something's wrong here.

[192] Something's not right.

[193] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[194] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[195] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[196] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[197] If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good, you are a fan of the Strange, Dark, and Mysterious.

[198] And if that's the case, then I've got some good news.

[199] We just launched a brand new Strange Dark and Mysterious podcast called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[200] And as the name suggests, it's a show about medical mysteries, a genre that many fans have been asking us to dive into for years, and we finally decided to take it.

[201] take the plunge, and the show is awesome.

[202] In this free, weekly show, we explore bizarre, unheard of diseases, strange medical mishaps, unexplainable deaths, and everything in between.

[203] Each story is totally true and totally terrifying.

[204] Go follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries, wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're a prime member, you can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[205] Seven days earlier, when Julian had gotten out of the car and ran back down the road to that dead animal on the side of the road and he had reached down to kind of get that branch out of the way to get a better look at this thing.

[206] He heard sudden movement behind him and as he turned, he didn't have a chance to see what was behind him, but he felt something hard, smash him in the back of the head and it knocked him unconscious.

[207] When he woke up, he knew right away that a significant amount of time had passed that he had been unconscious for what must have been several hours because now it was dark out and when he was struck it was broad daylight and he looked around him and he had no idea where he was.

[208] He was in the middle of this forest.

[209] He had no clothes on.

[210] His wrists and his ankles were tied together.

[211] And he moved around and he realized he had been tied to a tree that was right behind him.

[212] And so he's got no idea what's going on.

[213] He has no idea where he is.

[214] He's looking around.

[215] He doesn't see anyone.

[216] And then amazingly, when he looks down right next to him underneath some leaves is a knife.

[217] And so he's thinking, you know, how in the world is there a knife right next to me?

[218] This almost seems like it was placed to be here for me. But either way, he reaches down with his hands, he picks this knife up, and he's able to cut the restraints off of his ankles, and then he's able to cut the restraints off of his waist, and then he stands up, and he's able to kind of cut off the ones on his wrist, and then he's free.

[219] And so he takes this knife, and he has no idea where he's going, but he needs to get away.

[220] He doesn't know if whoever brought him here is going to come back, and so he just picks a direction, and he starts running.

[221] Shortly after Julian had been struck in the back of the head, after looking at that dead animal carcass.

[222] Carolyn was still sitting in the car, and she was starting to get annoyed and kind of worried about Julian.

[223] And so she gets out of the car.

[224] She stands up.

[225] She turns and she looks down the dirt road where it kind of bends off to the right.

[226] And standing in the road, maybe 10 feet away from her, is this man wearing all black.

[227] He's got a black balaclava over his face, and he's looking right at her.

[228] And so she's so scared, she's just frozen to the spot.

[229] And then this guy charges her, he tackles her to the ground, and then once she's on the ground, he rips all her clothes off, and then he binds her wrists, her ankles, he ties them together, so she's hog -tied, and then he puts a blindfold around her eyes.

[230] And so she's lying on the road, she can't move, she can't see anything, and she hears her her attacker run off down the road.

[231] And then a couple of minutes later, she hears a car approaching, and it stops right near her, and then she hears the sound of a car door opening, someone walking up to her, and then they pick her up, and they put her in the trunk of this car, they shut the trunk and then the car kicks into gear and it starts driving away and so for hours and hours she lay in the trunk in this horrible position where the circulation to her wrists and to her ankles were cut off and so she's getting shooting pain in her limbs and it's totally uncomfortable and then after several hours the car eventually turns on to some really bumpy road and then it comes to a stop and then she hears the sound of the driver open the door they walk around to the back of the car the trunk pops open and then this person pulls the blindfold off of her eyes and she sees even though her eyes are taking a second to adjust that it's the man with the balaclava on and he picks her up and he throws her on the ground and then after he shuts the trunk he walks over to caroline and he grabs her by the wrists and he begins dragging her into the woods and so as she's being dragged caroline is thinking i'm about to be killed somewhere in the middle of the woods there's nothing i can do i can't go anywhere I can't do anything.

[232] And after several minutes of being dragged, she gets dropped.

[233] And then this man with the balaclava, he walks back to the car and he gets a shovel.

[234] And when he walks over to her, he makes a special point of showing her the shovel.

[235] And then he rolls her onto her side.

[236] So she's positioned in such a way that she can see what he's doing.

[237] And then right in front of her, he takes that shovel and he begins digging a hole in the ground.

[238] And so Carolyn's watching him and she's thinking, he's digging my grave.

[239] And so for several hours, Carolyn just laid there wondering what was going to happen to her as this guy dug this hole deeper and deeper into the ground.

[240] And then finally, when the hole was apparently deep enough, the guy got out of the hole, he dumped the shovel, he walked over to her, he picked her up, and he threw her into the hole.

[241] And so Carolyn at this point is literally anticipating death at any moment.

[242] She doesn't know how he's going to kill her, but she thinks it's going to happen any minute.

[243] And so she wriggles herself onto her knees and does the only thing she can think to do, which is.

[244] is just to pray.

[245] And so as she's sitting there kneeling and praying, she hears the sound of her attacker walking off.

[246] Now, the hole was deep enough that she actually could not see where he was going, but she could clearly tell he was walking away.

[247] It was almost like her prayer had been answered that this guy was going to leave her alone.

[248] But even with this guy potentially gone, she was still in a perilous situation because she's stuck in this hole.

[249] She can't go anywhere.

[250] She's still tied up and the temperatures are dropping rapidly and she's got no clothes on.

[251] After Julian had managed to free himself from his restraints with that knife that he found, and after he had turned and just started running in a general direction, he had begun yelling out for help.

[252] He knew that by yelling out, he very likely could be alerting the person who had brought him here, but he's thinking, it's freezing, I don't have clothes on, I have to get help right now.

[253] And maybe Carolyn is out there.

[254] And so he's just kind of yelling out for help and at some point a voice yells back to him and it's a voice he knows very well it's Carolyn and so in the darkness he's kind of fumbling through all the trees and he's listening for Carolyn's voice and finally he reaches her and he finds her in this hole hogtides screaming out for him and so there's this moment where he kind of explains what happened to him and she's trying to explain what happened to her but they're just so scared that this attacker is going to come back that Julian just hops into the hole he cuts the restraints And then Julian helps Carolyn out of the hole.

[255] And at this point, Carolyn can barely walk because the circulation had been cut off for the most part to her legs for the better part of six, seven, eight hours at this point.

[256] But still, they're desperate to get out of here.

[257] So Julian's kind of holding Carolyn up and they begin to walk away from this whole site.

[258] And as they're leaving, they begin scanning around the area in case, you know, this attacker has left something else on the ground.

[259] Because Julian had said, I found a knife near where I was being held.

[260] And sure enough, as they're leaving, not far from the hole, they spot lying up against a tree, a sleeping bag, and rolled up inside of the sleeping bag with some food and some water.

[261] And so Julian and Carolyn, they can't understand how in the world this has happened, both the horrible luck of being kidnapped and brought out here, and the unbelievable luck of finding life -saving supplies just laying nearby.

[262] But either way, they grab the sleeping bag, they grab the food and water, and they take off running.

[263] For the next 48 hours, the couple roasted during the daytime when the sun was out because the temperatures would climb significantly.

[264] There wasn't much shade where they were walking around, so they're getting horribly sunburned.

[265] And then at night, the temperatures would plummet.

[266] And they'd be freezing cold and they'd get inside of their one sleeping bag.

[267] And they'd shiver together and do their best to ration some food and water.

[268] And they're telling themselves, you know, to stay positive that eventually if they just keep on moving every day, they're going to find a person, they're going to find a road.

[269] They're going to find something that will save them.

[270] But, to their horror, at the end of those first 48 hours, as they're stumbling through this mountainous treacherous terrain, they found themselves stumbling back into the same area they had tried to run away from.

[271] There was the hole in the ground where Carolyn had been thrown inside of.

[272] They had accidentally, over the past two days, walked in a big circle.

[273] Now luckily, when they arrived back at this site, there was no one there, the attacker was long gone, and it would turn out, this accident likely saved their lives.

[274] Because as they looked at this site, they saw propped up against a tree was a backpack.

[275] And so they ran over to the backpack, they opened it up, and there was food, water, some clothing, and a map of the area.

[276] Now, again, the couple is totally dumbfounded why they are just happening to find these life -saving supplies right when they need them.

[277] But at the same time, they're thinking, okay, well, if these supplies are sitting here, then certainly the person who has left them here, their attacker, they're going to be back soon.

[278] And so they just grabbed the backpack with everything inside of it and they took off running.

[279] And for the next five days, they used that map as best as they could and they eventually stumbled their way through the terrain, you know, roasting during the daytime and freezing at night, and eventually they reached that road where they stumbled out and the farmer driving along the back road, he spotted them, and he brought them to the hospital.

[280] After hearing this story, the police very quickly organized a massive search around the area of Alpine National Park where the farmer picked up Julian and Carolyn because they're thinking, okay, it's got to be right around here that will find the man in the balaclava that might lead us to the ONA or maybe he's not connected to the ONA, but whoever he is, we need to find this guy.

[281] And so the police, they go out, they do this huge search, they don't find the man with the balaclava, they don't find any sign of the ONA, but they do find.

[282] that area where that hole had been dug that Carolyn had been thrown in, and when they searched that area, they found the shovel, they found some rope, and they found some duct tape.

[283] And when they brought that in to be examined, they couldn't believe what they discovered.

[284] All of those items belonged to Julian, which meant either the kidnapper had taken all of these supplies from Julian right before going out and perpetrating this kidnapping, or, much more likely, Julian had supplied these things to the kidnapper and so was involved in some way in this kidnapping.

[285] And so the police went to Julian and confronted him with this information and said, you're not telling us everything because these are your items.

[286] And at first, Julian would completely deny any accusations that he had anything to do with this, but after some very serious police pressure was put on him, he cracked.

[287] The following is the real story of what happened.

[288] Back on March 4th, so the day that Julian and Carolyn went missing, Julian, after picking Carolyn up, they made it onto that dirt road that led into the forest towards the waterfall, and as they're driving along, Julian claimed to have seen some roadkill, some very strange roadkill on the side of the road.

[289] And so when Carolyn kind of turned around to look and didn't see it, Julian made it seem like, oh, we drove past it.

[290] That's why you didn't see it.

[291] But in reality, there was never any roadkill.

[292] That was completely made up.

[293] there was no roadkill.

[294] All Julian was doing was creating something that would allow him to then get out of the car at the end of their trip.

[295] And so they drive the rest of the way into the waterfall.

[296] They have their picnic.

[297] They turn around.

[298] They head back.

[299] And then again, Julian says, Hey, Carolyn, do you mind if I, you know, get out to look at the roadkill?

[300] And so she says, yes.

[301] And then he acts like, oh, we must have driven past it.

[302] So I need to get out and run back if I want to go see it.

[303] So Carolyn, she's not thinking it's totally strange.

[304] She says, okay.

[305] And so he hops.

[306] out and he runs his way, he goes around that curve in the road, out of sight.

[307] There's no roadkill.

[308] Instead, he makes his way to a tree where days earlier he had stashed his all black outfit, his black balaclava, and his knife, his shovel, his rope, his duct tape.

[309] It was all stashed in this spot that was going to be out of view of where Carolyn was.

[310] And so after getting all dressed up, he turned and began walking back towards Carolyn and his car.

[311] And when he turned the corner, he saw Carolyn was already standing outside of the car.

[312] And so he charged her, he tackled her to the ground, he ripped her clothes off, he hog -tied her, he threw her in his car, and then he got all of his supplies, he threw those in the car too, and he began driving away.

[313] And for six hours, he drove north all the way up to Alpine National Park, and then when he got there, he find a road that would kind of go off the trail ofways, into the forest, at which point he opened the trunk, he pulled Carolyn out, he threw her on the ground, he dragged Carolyn into the woods, and then with her blindfold off, he made sure to show her the shovel and he began digging that hole to give her the impression that he was going to kill her and bury her.

[314] He really wanted her to be totally terrified.

[315] And then after he had dug this hole, he dumped her into the hole.

[316] And then when she couldn't see what he was doing because she's deep inside of this hole and she's all tied up, he ran away.

[317] And when he was far enough out of view, he took off all of his clothes and kind of stashed it near a tree and then completely naked, besides his knife, which would be his alibi for how he had gotten free, he began moving back towards the site where he knew Carolyn was in this hole.

[318] And then after waiting a little bit, he began yelling out for help.

[319] And then she heard him.

[320] And so she yells back to him, oh, Julian, I'm over here.

[321] And so Julian goes to the sound of her voice.

[322] And then when he sees her, he pitches her this ridiculous story about he was tied up over there, but he found this knife, and he was able to cut himself free.

[323] And look, I'll cut you free.

[324] And oh, the attacker's going to come back soon.

[325] And so he helps her out of the hole.

[326] And oh, look, they left a sleeping bag and some food and water.

[327] Let's go.

[328] And so he grabs the supplies and they head off into the bush.

[329] Now, the whole time, over the course of these seven days, Julian knew exactly where he was.

[330] And so when they accidentally went in a circle and arrived back at the site where the hole was and then found that backpack that had more food and more water and some more supplies, that was intentional.

[331] That was not an accident.

[332] He had left the backpack there.

[333] And so that's why they had doubled back.

[334] And then five days later, after scampering through the wilderness, they magically found the road.

[335] But again, Julian knew where the road was.

[336] He had intentionally stayed out for the days that they were out there.

[337] And so after Julian tells the police all this, they say to him, you know, was Carolyn in on this?

[338] I mean, did she know this was going on?

[339] And he said, no, the whole time she believed they were getting stalked by their attacker.

[340] And if they ever caught up to them, they would be killed.

[341] And so the police are like, okay, well, why did you do this?

[342] Julian would say, you know, he and Carolyn were both very committed to their faith.

[343] and they both believed in not having sex before marriage.

[344] But over time, Julian had gotten to the point where he just couldn't wait any longer to have sex with Carolyn, and they weren't scheduled to get married for another year.

[345] And he just did not think he could wait a full year before they could finally have intercourse.

[346] And so he had staged this entire kidnapping in order to hopefully coerce Carolyn into having sex with him.

[347] And so while he and Carolyn were out on the run in Alpine National Park for those seven days and nights, they were not wearing any clothes or barely wearing any clothes.

[348] And at night, they only had that one sleeping bag that Julian had intentionally staged in advance.

[349] He knew they would have that one sleeping bag.

[350] And so they would climb into that bag at night because it's freezing cold out.

[351] And as they're laying there right on top of each other, he would say to Carolyn, we need to have sex in order to produce enough heat that we don't freeze to death out here.

[352] But Carolyn, despite the circumstances, every time said no. And so after seven days of trying to convince Carolyn that they had to have sex, it was a matter of life or death, and that if they just said their vows, that under the eyes of God, they would be considered married, and sex would be okay at that point, despite all of his best efforts, every single time, Carolyn just continued to say no, no, no. And so, at the end of those seven days, Julian finally just gave up.

[353] And so that's when they magically made their way out to the road and were rescued.

[354] Julian would also tell police that he was the one who wrote those notes prior to the kidnapping in hopes that they would believe the order of the nine angles was behind all of this and he wouldn't get in trouble.

[355] Prior to his trial for kidnapping, Julian was out on bail and he decided he would just try to flee Australia.

[356] And so the way he did this is he dyed his skin a darker shade and he also dyed his hair darker and then he attempted to use a fake Indian passport to go to India.

[357] And he was able to fool Australian authorities, but when he arrived in India, he was immediately found out and he was extradited back to Australia where he would stand trial.

[358] And in 2009, he was found guilty of kidnapping along with a host of other obscure charges, and he was sentenced to seven years and nine months in prison.

[359] Thank you for listening to the Mr. Ballin podcast.

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[373] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[374] She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

[375] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[376] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[377] What happens next?

[378] Depends on who you ask.

[379] Was it a crime of passion?

[380] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[381] This was clearly an intentional act.

[382] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[383] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[384] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[385] Everyone had an opinion.

[386] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[387] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[388] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[389] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[390] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.