J. J. Abrams

[0] Hi, my name is J .J. Abrams.

[1] And I feel exceedingly lucky about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[2] Back to school.

[3] Ring the bell.

[4] Brand new shoes.

[5] Walking loose.

[6] Climb the fence, books and pens.

[7] I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[8] We are going to be friends.

[9] Hey there.

[10] Welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend, podcast that's chugging along.

[11] even through this quarantine, this global pandemic, we're still trying to get you.

[12] Whatever it is we provide.

[13] I honestly have no idea what this is.

[14] But whatever this is, we're doing our best to keep providing it.

[15] It's probably masks, medicines would be much more useful.

[16] But this is what we have.

[17] And we're going to keep making it for you until the government stops us.

[18] I'm joined as always by my trustee assistant Sonamov Sestian.

[19] Hey, Sona.

[20] Hello.

[21] Hi.

[22] You're coming to us from your home in a very rural part of California known as Elta Dina.

[23] It's not rural.

[24] Very rural, very far from me. No, was there other houses there when you, when you intact found that place, were there other people there?

[25] Yes, there were.

[26] Really?

[27] It's an entire, it's a neighborhood.

[28] It's tense, mostly tents, and people have staked out their property and now they're just starting to build.

[29] Like in the old West.

[30] Who has contempt for houses that are just far away from him?

[31] Please.

[32] It's just because it's far from you.

[33] I'm the center.

[34] Okay.

[35] And you are far from me. It's that old classic New Yorker cartoon, you know?

[36] There's just Manhattan and there's the rest of the world.

[37] They should do that where it's just Conan and then way off in the corner.

[38] There's some frizzy hair on the horizon.

[39] Oh, come on.

[40] Oh, come on.

[41] Matt Gourley, you're here as well.

[42] Matt, good to see you.

[43] Hi.

[44] We're all, everybody's safe.

[45] Everybody taking care of themselves.

[46] Yeah, I'm thriving.

[47] I don't think that's, I don't think you're saying.

[48] supposed to say that right now.

[49] I think you're supposed to say, I'm fine, I'm holding up well, but you're not supposed to say, I'm thriving.

[50] Right.

[51] Well, the outside world aside, I'm in my element.

[52] Because you like this.

[53] You like being in your home with all the stuff you love, your banjos and my model airplanes.

[54] Hey, it's coming along pretty nice, my sop with camel made of balsa wood from the Gilos Balserwood Kit Company.

[55] Anyway, why go on at length?

[56] We're here.

[57] We're making these shows and we're still having a good time.

[58] I have to say I prefer being in the room with you guys and with our guests, but this is pretty good.

[59] I've been surprised at how well this is working.

[60] I wasn't sure this would work out.

[61] There's a lot of technical challenges.

[62] We spend about half an hour before each podcast session, adjusting dials and knobs and trying to get the right levels.

[63] Yeah, and you're doing very well, except there's one more improvement we need to make.

[64] Well, I'm sorry to see you go.

[65] No, I am.

[66] We're going to miss you.

[67] But I'm sure it'd be hard to find someone else with your eclactic tastes in 50s telephones.

[68] But anyway, no, go ahead.

[69] What can we do to make this better?

[70] I want it to be better.

[71] Well, you're doing it right now.

[72] You are talking into the side of the microphone.

[73] And there's a big plosive problem with your peas because I take them all out in post -production.

[74] But I asked you to talk past your microphone, and I want to, like, show you this picture.

[75] Oh.

[76] Okay, first of all, you're talking not even into the top edge of the microphone.

[77] You've got it, like, over your face from the side.

[78] And then there's a giant blue light on you.

[79] You look like Braveheart or Gemma holograms or something.

[80] I'll put this photo up.

[81] Well, first of all, that's not a blue light.

[82] I think I had a hematoma.

[83] I had a cerebral hemorrhage and bravely went on during the podcast.

[84] So I guess eggs on your face.

[85] As for talking, I don't, I think this is my subtle way of showing contempt for this medium.

[86] Yeah, I think so.

[87] Do you see how the mic is not in front?

[88] You know, okay, all right, let me tell you something.

[89] I, I set myself up for this.

[90] No, no, no, no, we're not going to do the old I get you, you get me. We're not going to do that.

[91] We're not going to become the Bickerson's.

[92] I do take direction well.

[93] My whole life, people have clipped a microphone.

[94] And when I mean people, there's 15.

[95] people that clip a microphone to my tie.

[96] I don't know why it takes 15.

[97] It's a union thing.

[98] And it's 14 people holding one person.

[99] But they bring them over and they clip it onto my tie.

[100] So I've never really had to deal with microphones this way.

[101] So I apologize if I've caused you extra work.

[102] But right now you sound perfect.

[103] You've done it.

[104] We're there.

[105] Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

[106] How many pickled peppers did Peter Piker Pipp?

[107] Now what happens, when you go through, what is it you do?

[108] I'm curious to know how you contribute.

[109] Well, He's, wow.

[110] No, no, it's a mystery to me. This is good.

[111] This is good for me to know what you do.

[112] So what is it?

[113] Other than being one of two members of the heart and soul of this podcast.

[114] Other than glare at me while so in a laugh.

[115] Fills the air with her rich tones.

[116] What is it you do?

[117] You take out hard P sound.

[118] Oh, my God.

[119] To begin with.

[120] So that's what you do.

[121] Like, if the cops pull you over and they're like, sir, you're going to have to step out of the car.

[122] You realize you were going 75.

[123] Yeah, I'm sorry, officer.

[124] Tell us, what's your name?

[125] I'm that girl.

[126] What do you do?

[127] I remember.

[128] Move the plosives from the faux radio show.

[129] More of a podcast, if you will.

[130] God.

[131] Sorry.

[132] Man, last week we got along so well we were on the same team and now we're back into it.

[133] I'm having a nosebleed.

[134] This is what happens when you criticize one little thing about what Conan's doing.

[135] He didn't just criticize.

[136] He had a picture ready and he put it up to try and sway the jury in a way that I thought was unfair.

[137] you came at me with photographic evidence.

[138] And when you do that, I have to come back with my full nuclear arsenal and make sure that you can never attack again.

[139] That's the only way for me to be safe.

[140] Look how glam rock you look in this photo, though.

[141] I know what that is?

[142] I will post this on my Instagram or something.

[143] Yeah, post that on your Instagram.

[144] You know what I think that might be, they gave me this ring light that I use for the show?

[145] No, isn't it the power indicator on the microphone?

[146] Oh, you're right.

[147] It's this blue light.

[148] It's the blue light.

[149] That shows how close you are to this.

[150] I thought we were supposed to bathe ourselves in the blue light because it prevented skin cancer.

[151] So that's why I've been getting in so close is to save my life.

[152] Yeah, that's it.

[153] One side of your face is completely freckle -free now.

[154] You look like a reverse two -face.

[155] I know.

[156] I just, no, I, and Matt, I, please, I think it goes without saying you do an enormous amount of work on this podcast, and I value all that you do.

[157] And my lawyer just called, and wrote that wrote that out for me. I wish you well in all future endeavors.

[158] There, I'm done.

[159] Oh, my God.

[160] Let's get on with the episode.

[161] That's worse.

[162] That's worse than when he rags on you.

[163] Yeah, Sona always says the worst thing I do is apologize.

[164] Because when I say, you know what, Sona, I really do value you and you really are a great person.

[165] She can't handle it.

[166] No, it's awful because you're holding your breath for what's coming next.

[167] Yeah, it's not genuine and it's uncomfortable.

[168] It is genuine.

[169] It is genuine.

[170] You know I genuinely value both of you.

[171] I think you guys...

[172] No, stop it.

[173] Stop it.

[174] I do.

[175] I hate this.

[176] I hate this.

[177] Stop it.

[178] It's worse.

[179] It's so much worse.

[180] Hey, guys, can I say one thing since we're on the topic of Mike stuff?

[181] This is Mr. Will Beckton and will, again, no idea what you do.

[182] An engineer of some sort, I believe.

[183] Is that right?

[184] Yes.

[185] Yeah.

[186] And you look like you just escape from a cult that you started.

[187] That's the only cult I'd be a part of Yeah Just one thing As an aide Sona is a natural As far as mic technique So if you just look at Sona That's the way to do it As far as distance And also because her voice is Like in the pattern And what the mic picks up Well first of all we should tell people Sona doesn't use a mic Her voice is so loud that she just starts speaking and everyone can register it.

[188] You've been on television for how long using microphones?

[189] Podcasts are a completely different kettle of fish.

[190] What?

[191] Yeah, it's a whole new terrain filled with sea life.

[192] No, I've seen you hold so many microphones in the time I've been working for you.

[193] This is a very intimate medium.

[194] I want people to get to know me, so I want to almost have the microphone inside me. Oh, my God.

[195] Okay, we need to wrap this up.

[196] You can't say thank you for the note, everybody.

[197] And I will take that note and I will do better next time.

[198] Thank you for the note given to me publicly with photographic evidence on the podcast, I guess, is what you want?

[199] Sure.

[200] Thanks.

[201] And in the future, that's how I'll address you guys as well.

[202] Once you learn how to take a screenshot.

[203] Oh, my God.

[204] Direct hit.

[205] Direct hit.

[206] Wow.

[207] Wow.

[208] That was delicious.

[209] Have you guys watched the movie Goodfellas?

[210] Oh, no. Do you remember when they're all playing poker?

[211] And Spider, who's played?

[212] This is exactly how I felt coming into this podcast, the first season.

[213] I felt just like Spider, where I was going to go fuck yourself.

[214] Yeah.

[215] Spider has to get them the drinks.

[216] And he's played beautifully from the Sopranos.

[217] Michael Imperiali.

[218] Michael Imperioly.

[219] He takes all this shit from Joe Pesci, and then finally he tells him to go fuck himself.

[220] Or in this case, hey, you speak into the mic wrong and you can't take a screenshot.

[221] And everyone else laughs.

[222] So Sonas De Niro, and she's laughing, and everyone's laughing.

[223] You're like, oh, ho, ho, all right, spider, good for you, spider.

[224] Spider's fucking up it.

[225] And Pesci's doing what I did, remaining perfectly silent and just staring, staring at Michael Imperioli.

[226] if you don't know what happens next you should watch the movie i'm not joking i thought about that the first season i felt like oh my god yeah that reminded me of that yeah but joe pesci's intimidating oh oh she just spidered herself i hate it here on my own podcast oh man i'm better than you at microphones i'm not taking away from all this yeah i am i have designed a special world that I can get inside of even during a pandemic and be humiliated.

[227] All right, we, we, I deserve all of that.

[228] I am a tech moron, but, and a monster, terribly.

[229] That's not fun when you do that.

[230] I know, I know.

[231] It's funny.

[232] I don't even mean it.

[233] I mean, a monster in the way, look, genius, geniuses are difficult.

[234] Listen, please, let's hurry up.

[235] Let's get to it.

[236] Mozart.

[237] Anyway.

[238] Oh, my God.

[239] Not an easy guy.

[240] Anyway, here we go.

[241] Great.

[242] is often difficult.

[243] Michael Jordan, not an easy guy.

[244] Okay, here we go.

[245] Wow.

[246] I'm Jordan.

[247] Here we go.

[248] By my sneakers.

[249] Here we go.

[250] My guest today is an extremely talented filmmaker behind some of the biggest movies and television shows of the past 20 years, including Lost, Star Trek, Super 8, and Star Wars, The Force Awakens.

[251] He also happens to be an incredibly lovely and funny human being, very excited to talk to him today.

[252] J .J. Abrams.

[253] Welcome.

[254] We've known each other.

[255] I remember exactly the first time I talked to you and you could not have been nicer.

[256] It's when I was, I think second time I was hosting the Emmys, I called you up because I had an idea of jumping through the different shows and I wanted it to start on Lost.

[257] And someone said, just called J .J. Abrams.

[258] And I remembered saying, I can't just call J .J. Abrams.

[259] And they said, yeah, you can.

[260] It never occurs to me that I might be able to do that.

[261] You can do that.

[262] You can call people.

[263] I know.

[264] And I, well, it's a whole other story.

[265] That's a whole therapy session.

[266] But I called you and you could not have been nicer.

[267] And you said, yes, yes, of course, we'd love to do this segment.

[268] And I'd like to direct it.

[269] And I was on cloud nine.

[270] That was really fun, by the way.

[271] It was fun.

[272] It was really fun.

[273] And then I'm going to be honest with you, I thought, I've just been directed by JJ Abrams.

[274] This is going to lead to a lot of film work.

[275] Nothing.

[276] A vast tundra.

[277] That's what happens when people work with me. Silence.

[278] You're in good company, my friend.

[279] J .J. Abrams killed my film career.

[280] And this led, this is where I really want to begin.

[281] Yeah.

[282] I understand you are at the top of your game.

[283] I absolutely adore your work.

[284] You understand you've worked with just monumental, iconic figures like a Harrison.

[285] and forward multiple times, you know what a movie star looks like.

[286] What am I missing?

[287] Is it the lips?

[288] Are the lips too thin?

[289] It's the eyes, isn't it?

[290] It's the beady.

[291] It's the tone of voice.

[292] You're being really hard on yourself for the first time ever.

[293] If you really cared about me, you'd be honest and you'd say, look, Conan, you have certain qualities that have helped you in the business.

[294] It's the lips.

[295] It's the vein near your eyes.

[296] It's the reedy, nasally tone.

[297] All right, I'll be all.

[298] I'm going to be honest with you.

[299] It's the vein near your eye.

[300] Yes.

[301] What the hell are you talking to?

[302] I'm talking about a very, I have a very prominent eye vein.

[303] I have translucent Irish skin, and I have a vein.

[304] Do you have P .E .V?

[305] What is Permanent eye vein?

[306] Yes, yes.

[307] Thank you.

[308] For a minute, I was like, what's P .E .V?

[309] Sona, tell J .J. I have a prominent eye vein.

[310] Oh, my God.

[311] It's horrific.

[312] Okay, all right, take it easy.

[313] So horrific.

[314] You know when you see an old lady at the beach and on her leg, there's just a massive vein going down the side?

[315] Like a varicose vein?

[316] Yes, a varicose vein.

[317] I have a giant old lady's leg varicose vein running under my eye, my right eye.

[318] I've never noticed that.

[319] Now it's all I'm gonna see.

[320] Well, it pulsates when I'm enraged and you've never ever anchored me. That's incredible.

[321] I remember the first time I saw you, and it was, was, I went to one of your test shows when you were first doing your first series.

[322] And Tom Selleck was the test guest in this test show.

[323] It's all a blur to me, but yeah, okay, I know, but I just, I will never forget it.

[324] And it was, you know, this was going to be the new guy that was taken over and like, who's he get, what, who's this guy?

[325] And you came out and, you know, even in that test show, I just remember you, you killed it.

[326] And it was this thing of, of getting to see something before anyone else saw it.

[327] And we just, uh, we just, I just got, I don't even know how we got tickets.

[328] And we got to go and it was really super fun.

[329] And I just was like, oh my God, this guy is going to be the new guy.

[330] And here you are.

[331] That's so sweet.

[332] That was now, that's not like 20, almost 28 years ago, hard to believe.

[333] Or 27 years ago.

[334] Isn't that amazing?

[335] But it's amazing that I'm still in my 40s.

[336] And the point is that I remember about those test shows.

[337] I think we did 10 test shows and they were either great or they were horrific.

[338] So I'm glad you saw.

[339] Oh, I saw a good.

[340] I'm so glad you saw a good one because, and then the show was all over the map for the first year or so, but we studied the ship.

[341] What were you feeling like when you first were going out there doing that?

[342] Like in the test shows, even before you went on air?

[343] It was a mixture of either, and this is the most honest answer I can give, either complete lack of confidence and a feeling that I'm a complete fraud or total, oh, no, I'm going to do this because this is God's will kind of.

[344] of confidence and I don't understand and it would vacillate between the two of them and I still have and I've talked to other people it's not completely uncommon I wouldn't say the extremes are that great but I still have moments of I can't do this I'm not going to be any good at this this this is terrible idea this is a mistake and I need to call the person and talk them out of me doing this event because it's not going to work or aren't they lucky that they get get to see me. I don't understand that brain chemistry.

[345] That is weird.

[346] I think that it's probably I think that they're both necessary ingredients to be able to have the kind of audacity to think that you're going to be able to and you're worthy of entertaining people and the ability to be someone in the audience to have that to be able to jump into the, you know, the observer point of view and right, which of course means you can't be also the person on stage and in those moments.

[347] It's like, what the hell am I doing, assuming I can be the one who goes up and does it.

[348] Well, you're a perfect person to talk to about this because you have taken on these responsibilities that I can't even imagine.

[349] I've done some things that are scary in my life as a performer or a comedian, things that have really terrified me, things that I look back on them and I go, wow, that was intense.

[350] But I think about you, having to, you know, curate, coordinate, be at the very center.

[351] of these massive productions.

[352] And I think I would wake up at night.

[353] And I mean, in my case, justifiably so, I would wake up and think this is, how is this happening?

[354] How can this even happen?

[355] I don't know if you ever have moments as J .J. Abrams, where you say, I'm directing, you know, Harrison Ford in Star Wars.

[356] I, this was an iconic movie that helped, you know, launch my interest in film.

[357] And now I'm here doing it.

[358] and he has to do what I tell him to do or he's or he's fired that's I mean do have moments where you step outside yourself and find it all I think it happens all the time I mean I there have been moments uh where I've I remember we were shooting on the in the first Star Trek movie we did and there was this one scene where there was this group of what were meant to be these really bad scary uh guys and uh I I sort of cast all these uh these these bald guys.

[359] We had tattoos on their faces and they, you know, and I thought okay, these are going to be really interesting looking.

[360] It would be kind of cool.

[361] And the character of captain of this ship was coming over, Captain Rabau.

[362] And on that day, I realized, oh God, he's also bald.

[363] Completely bald.

[364] And I have all these bald guys.

[365] And I looked at the bad guys and they, I realized they kind of looked like they were sort of in like a boy band, like a K -pop and something.

[366] And then I looked at the at the fall captain coming over.

[367] And I just, and I, I, I broke into this crazy sweat.

[368] And I, and I, and the first AD was like, you know, so you ready?

[369] I'm like, I'm like, nope.

[370] And I walked away and I was like, literally, I walked behind the set and kind of, you know, walked around by myself just in this panic.

[371] Like, what the fuck am I going to do to make any of, and it was this crazy, you know, moment.

[372] And it's just one of, of dozens that I can think of where I, I was justifiably in a, in a state kind of near, oh my God, this is the other shoe dropping.

[373] This is the moment when not only I, but everyone finally realizes that there's not a reason I should be doing this.

[374] And it was, it's, it's, it's, you know, those happen all the time.

[375] I'm a big fan of that movie, and I loved your fix for that, was to have all the other bald guys wear Mets caps to offset them.

[376] I just thought Mets fans.

[377] Yeah.

[378] And I had to say it took me out of the moment for a second, and then you just got right past it.

[379] And, you know, it's another thing, you know, because I try very hard.

[380] I'm very impressed by what you do.

[381] And I'm very impressed.

[382] I think a lot of it or a piece of it is you do it very well, but I also don't understand it.

[383] I fundamentally don't understand what it is.

[384] Everything I do is very immediate.

[385] I go out and I do it and it's immediate and it and then it's either it's good, medium, bad.

[386] We fix it if we can.

[387] then we move on.

[388] And I'm thinking of you being involved in these projects that take a year and a half, two years, and there's so much time to massage, to try and figure something out in editing that I would feel that you could get lost.

[389] I would just, I don't understand how you don't get completely lost in the process.

[390] It's a weird thing because, you know, obviously doing what you do and having, you know, worked at SNL and like, you know, and where it is literally, you know, live and happening in the moment and then things like the Simpsons where it's it's you know a year and a half before you see the animation and you know you you've you've worked in all sorts of things and obviously going off and doing remotes and things you know you you've experienced everything that I've experienced in in just you know slightly different ways and I would say that for me it's it's never live TV it's never happening you know real time but the truth is that that it's seat of your pants.

[391] And, you know, usually on something, whether it's a Star Trek or Star Wars movie, those are movies where, you know, you rarely read a header for a scene, you know, interior hardware store or day.

[392] It's always something that's impossible and doesn't exist on the planet.

[393] R2C2 is buying house paint.

[394] Exactly.

[395] Captain Spock needs some caulking for the bathroom, which is an underrated scene, by the way.

[396] Those scenes don't happen.

[397] So you're always looking at like, how do we even begin to imagine where this thing would ever take place and how does it look and as big as the crew may be and as large as the production is.

[398] It's always the thing that makes it work is that you're working with people who are great, the people you can rely on who are as freaked out as you are and have their own moments of I'm not worthy all the time as well, but are looking at you as you're looking at them like, you know, how are we going to do this?

[399] We're going to figure it out together.

[400] And, you know, I don't know what kind of, you know, Cajunis, I think I have to be able to say yes to things that I'm like, there's an audacity there that I, you know, I feel is maybe a mental illness.

[401] That's what I wanted to get to is your mental illness.

[402] And, and this is really the point.

[403] This is more of an intervention, I think, than a podcast.

[404] But when you think about it, what I do relate to, and I try to convey this to people, say yes first.

[405] And you, and you, and then figure it out.

[406] But I used to believe I was raised to be very responsible.

[407] And I was raised to be, you know, only say yes if you really know you can do it and that you're gonna be there and you've thought it through.

[408] And all the pivotal moments in my life have been, hey, can you do this thing?

[409] And I just, something in me said yes when I had no idea how I was going to do it.

[410] And yes, if you sat with a rash, team of people and said, well, they want this Star Wars movie that should take 24, you know, months to do.

[411] And they want it in 13 months.

[412] And there is 150 million moving pieces.

[413] Let's rationally think this through.

[414] Logical people would say it can't be done.

[415] But all the good stuff gets done that way.

[416] I think that that's true.

[417] And it's, it's part of the fun.

[418] But it's not, you know, it's not necessarily meant to just be a the fun and and you know I think it depends what the thing is if someone someone says listen you know will you perform this heart surgery it's like yes it's like there are certain stakes that I think you know like I need to realize you know at a certain point um there are things that are important that I got lucky you know on the first couple movies I did the the mission of possible three and the Star Trek the first one you know we did and so when we for example when we shot the Star Trek movie, you know, the first one, we didn't do any reshoots at all.

[419] You know, the only thing we added during the mix is I filmed, there's a kid driving a car in the beginning of the movie, a young Kirk.

[420] I went on the, we went on the roof of the parking structure at Fox, and I filmed the kid, close -ups of him driving, just I didn't feel like we had enough of that.

[421] Like, that was the entire reshoot for the Star Trek movie.

[422] Again, obviously, in this moment now, you know, who knows post -COVID -19, who knows sort of how and what that will look like.

[423] And, and, and, I do think that once, once this lifts, I do think we revert.

[424] I think you're probably right.

[425] I just, I just, I just think we do.

[426] And I think that, uh, there's a very, what's the question?

[427] What do you think does carry over?

[428] Like in terms of, uh, because, you know, there's obviously a lot of people who are obviously struggling and it's, and that's awful.

[429] And, and, and then, you know, a lot of people are just sort of getting by and doing okay.

[430] And different people have different versions of struggle.

[431] But I, you know, everyone seems to have some version of, you know, that there's an aspect of this that is making them re -examine things.

[432] And I just wonder, like, what people will be taking into, you know, post -COVID life that they've, you know, that they've learned.

[433] I have a theory that we are going to, I know myself, and I think it's true of, I think it's true of a lot of people.

[434] I so appreciate now.

[435] I so appreciate all the people in my life that I work with because I love working with people.

[436] I've always liked being in the mix and being around a lot of people.

[437] And in your work, you're collaborating with a lot of really funny, smart, sharp people, very talented people.

[438] And I am going to try to hang on to that appreciation for as long as I can after this lifts.

[439] Part of me suspects because I'm a human being, I'll revert.

[440] You know, after like a six -month period.

[441] Yeah.

[442] I was just talking about that with Judd, Apatow, about that, about just how, like, you know, people will just sort of snap back to whatever bad habits.

[443] I don't know where you were living.

[444] After, when 9 -11 occurred, I was living in Manhattan.

[445] You know, my wife and I would go to restaurants, and this is the days after 9 -11.

[446] And, you know, the waitress would come over and would say, sit down.

[447] And the groups of people I were with, I was with, they would.

[448] the waiter, the manager, people would come and sit down with us.

[449] We were all saying, how are you?

[450] Where do you live?

[451] Are you okay?

[452] It was really beautiful.

[453] I remembered it lasting like three weeks.

[454] And then I saw people, you know, lifting up their credit card and dropping it behind their back as if to say, if you don't catch this by the time it hits the floor, Missy, there's no tip for you.

[455] Like, I mean, I don't know.

[456] I hope that we'll, I hope that we'll do better.

[457] I think I'm a little, not sure, not sure that we will, I do think we will probably revert in a lot of ways.

[458] I guess I'd like that to be what we take away from this podcast with JJ as human beings are terrible.

[459] JJ's mentally ill, human beings are bad.

[460] And my film career has been ruined by my pulsating varicose eye vein.

[461] You know what?

[462] It fascinated me and I love you've had this insane success in film but you came at it through TV initially and it really was a love of television and we've talked about this but we're both lovers of 1960s television and for you it was the twilight zone and yeah i love the twilight zone and um it was such you know i later learned much more about rod surling because rod surling was the guy who would and if you're listening right now and you're you're not familiar with that show it was such such an iconic show and it was hosted by this brilliant guy named Rod Serling who would come out at the top of the show and then introduce you to this tale.

[463] And you never knew the rest of television was predictable because nobody died, no regular cast member died on a regular episode of a TV show.

[464] In a twilight zone, anything could happen.

[465] And you'd really get invested in it.

[466] And as I've looked more and more into Rod Serling, I found out he was this fascinating man who I believe was key in coming up to like the ending of Planet of the Apes.

[467] Is that true?

[468] or is that urban legend?

[469] He wrote the, he was one of the writers of the Charlton Heston feature and that was his ending.

[470] The Statue of Liberty ending was not in the novel because it was originally a French novel.

[471] But he was an amazing guy and he actually didn't live far from here from where we live.

[472] And his wife, who I got to know, Carol, who sadly passed away a few months ago, she was an amazing woman.

[473] and I remember reading that Rod Serling would dictate his scripts as opposed to sitting at a typewriter.

[474] And so one day I asked Carol if she had any of the recordings.

[475] She said, oh, yes.

[476] I was like, what?

[477] You have a, you know, could you send me one?

[478] And she had one that was digitized, and she sent it to me on a CD.

[479] And it was like 1 a .m. And I was in my office at home, and I put the CD in, and I hit play.

[480] and it was a recording from a dictaphone and the recording had been bent it was like a belt almost and it had been bent so it was just kind of like this like this sort of constant like sounds like p p p p p p p I was like this kind of weird and then I heard this like crinkling sound which I recognized immediately as the sound of the microphone that was on a plastic cord and it had an on -off switch and he would turn it off when he wanted to think and he would turn it on again to record.

[481] So there was this, this and then this crinkling sound and then this loud sort of hit of the button and there was Rod Sterling's voice saying, interior, diner.

[482] Man walks in, sits down, looks around.

[483] And I heard this crinkling and he was like stopping the thing what happens next.

[484] And I got to like hear when Rod Serling would stop and consider the next thing and he looks at the waiter, raises his hand, miss. And then every once in a while Denise, remind me to tell Carol.

[485] And he'd like, do you like personal notes.

[486] That's a great Rod Serling, too.

[487] That's a fantastic Rod Serling.

[488] Yeah, you know, it's fascinating.

[489] This goes to something that I think you agree with.

[490] How can you really blow people away in movies?

[491] We live in this era of, for example, and I'm thinking of this because we brought up, we're talking about Rod Serling and these amazing endings.

[492] We live in an era where it's impossible not to have things, spoiled for you.

[493] And Planet of the Apes, I remembered watching that movie.

[494] I was too young to see it in the theater when it came out, but I saw it later on in a movie theater.

[495] And when that ending is revealed with the Statue of Liberty and the sand, I have a visceral connection to how blown away I was and how everything suddenly made sense.

[496] And I had the same feeling when I saw Citizen Kane for the first time.

[497] And then I finally, it's revealed what Rosebud, that Rosebud's this led.

[498] And I'm just, I was just like, oh, my God, that meant so much to me. And an electrical shock went through my body.

[499] I've had the experience now of watching things.

[500] I introduce my son, Beckett, to things.

[501] And I'll show him, and I'll be showing him Planet of the Ypes, the original with Charlton Heston, and he'll say, oh, they're on earth.

[502] And I'll say, we're like 20 minutes in.

[503] And I'll go, wait, why do you know that?

[504] And he went, there's a Simpsons where they sing a song about how, and I'm like, fuck!

[505] That's exactly right.

[506] By the way, that is so true.

[507] And this happens all the time with me and my kids, but Augie in particular, everything has been referenced so many times in shows you've worked on.

[508] Yes.

[509] No, wait a minute.

[510] How did this get to be my fault?

[511] But it's true.

[512] It happened with it.

[513] And I showed him Citizen Kane, and he went, yeah, it's a sled.

[514] And I went, what?

[515] And he went, yeah, there's an episode where Mr. Burns says Rosebud.

[516] And like a sled falls out of the ceiling.

[517] And I'm, I'm in rage because the kids to all know the references.

[518] I know.

[519] And the references are so clever and hyper -knowing and winking.

[520] And if it's not that, then things are being spoiled, you know, online and everything's being discussed.

[521] So it's like it doesn't, it doesn't really matter where it comes from.

[522] It's like there's almost, I don't know what it was what it was like or if there was a kind of respect for the story or some kind of sense of like the sanctity of keeping the ending, you know, see, but like all that is gone now and, and everything is fodder, like anything that can be used.

[523] It's almost like we're all like monkeys and cages, like anything that we can pick up and throw at the bars, you know, we do.

[524] And I, and I feel like like that idea of like, you know, if someone doesn't like something that someone does, you know, it has to be a weapon that you have to be, you know, insidiously, bitingly, you know, clever about online.

[525] If something is ruinable, you know, who's the first one who can, you know, find a way to, to, you know, to, you you know, to ruin the ending for, it just, it becomes a race to like shock and to, you know, and I think it's, the Simpsons, by the way, is the least of it, because at least that's like genuinely brilliant and hysterically funny.

[526] The idea that it's just sort of, you know, everything is just, I don't know, grist for the mill.

[527] It just feels like there's no respect for kind of trying to keep things.

[528] You've probably, you've probably experienced this.

[529] You've probably experienced this, but another experience I've had is I want to show my kids a film a great classic film.

[530] And they're wondering, they're weighing whether or not they want to invest two hours in this movie versus something else they might want to see because they're only allowed to watch stuff on the weekends and so it's one of our two shots that we get this weekend.

[531] And so they'll often say to me, what's this movie again?

[532] And I'll say, it's Lawrence of Arabia or they'll say, well, let's see the trailer.

[533] And I'll say, no, I don't want to show you the trailer.

[534] They watch trailers, and it's not just them, it's their friends.

[535] They watch trailers to decide if they're going to see a movie rather than just having the movie unveiled.

[536] And I try to tell them, you've got a pretty good percentage here.

[537] I'm showing you one of AFI's top 100 movies of all time.

[538] Right.

[539] But I am stunned at how many times I go and see a movie.

[540] And I'm sitting through the trailers and they tell me everything that happens in the movie.

[541] Everything.

[542] And it's their way, I guess, of covering their asses and saying, well, we want them to make, you know, to be sure they know.

[543] that it's got a really cool ending and that they're on earth all the time.

[544] But I think today they would show you.

[545] I think today they would show you the Statue of Liberty in the sand in the trailer for Planned of the Apes.

[546] I do think that it's something that it is a very odd sort of, maybe it's because when a movie isn't working, they do it more often because it's like, let's just throw it all on the screen and see what.

[547] It's a really annoying thing that I don't think anyone, anyone likes.

[548] I think people at the studios know that it's not the smartest way to go.

[549] And yet still, it seems to be something that you feel like you've seen the movie when you've seen the trailer.

[550] I'm amazed because, you know, it's such an art form, such a weird, specific art form.

[551] When a really good trailer is cut together, it's amazing how how footage is used, like for a great trailer editor knows how to find something that might, frankly, not even have much meaning at all in a scene and a movie or not, it might not even be used in the film itself, looking at sort of the dailies.

[552] But, like, they know, like, a certain look, a certain turn.

[553] Like, I've seen so many movies where the trailers totally got me. And then you're watching the movie, you're like, eh, you know, the trailer was so promising.

[554] And you realize it's like these people who can edit trailers well, it is such a fucking genius, you know, art form that's, I don't think quite, you know, appreciated the way it should be.

[555] Because it really is an amazing thing.

[556] There are a lot of bad ones.

[557] We've all seen a lot of bad ones.

[558] But a really good trailer for a movie is so, like, the promise of what that is is so amazing.

[559] And then often you go to see the movie and you're like, well, man, I wish the trailer editor had more of a role in the movie.

[560] Well, I'm going to reference a movie that I thought where the trailer was amazing and then the movie lived up to it.

[561] And it's a movie that you worked on Cloverfield.

[562] And I was in the theater when that trailer, when I saw that trailer, If you haven't seen the trailer, if you just want to refresh your memory, go back and look at that trailer.

[563] That trailer, you never see the monster.

[564] You never see the creature.

[565] I remember being in a theater and that trailer running and people bursting into wild screams and applause and being just delighted.

[566] And then whatever movie we watched didn't match.

[567] That had to follow the trailer couldn't match it.

[568] And ironically, that trailer involved the Statue of Liberty, not ironically, coincidentally.

[569] But it's funny.

[570] We had the idea for that trailer while we were writing the script, and I literally, I remember calling up the head of Paramount at the time with Brad Gray and saying, I'd like to shoot this trailer and get it on transformers, if we could, and not even put a title for the movie and have it be something that no one has heard of.

[571] And in this sort of moment of everyone knowing everything about what's coming, finding a way to surprise people, you know, was exciting.

[572] So they actually let us shoot the trailer before we shot the movie.

[573] We actually shot the trailer as a separate piece.

[574] Yeah.

[575] And then we were cutting together the trailer as we were prepping the movie.

[576] And then the trailer was out there while we were shooting.

[577] It was a very bizarre way to go.

[578] And it was weirdly it was the opposite of we have this date.

[579] We have to get the movie done.

[580] It was sort of like my asking the studio if they wouldn't mind letting us do something that was fairly unheard of.

[581] And, you know, we had the date that the movie.

[582] was coming out was gave us plenty of time.

[583] But it was a really fun thing in Matt Reeves, who directed the movie and Drew Goddard, who wrote it, you know, and Brian Burke, producer, we were all there, like, working on the trailer as if it were the movie, you know, it was this very strange, weird little, like shooting a commercial, basically.

[584] But we knew it was going to be in the film, so it was sort of a way of using.

[585] It was, it's a terrifying trailer that tells you nothing, but at the same time tells you everything you need to know.

[586] And I remember that trailer ending and thinking, I've got to, I don't care if, I don't care there's a child of mine is scheduled to be born that day.

[587] I'm seeing that movie.

[588] I have to see that movie.

[589] And this leads me to my next thing that I think, I know that you're such a student of film, but this way of trying to keep mystery.

[590] You've done a brilliantly throughout your career, but it's just keeping an air of mystery at a time when people are being given too much information.

[591] And I remember it on Lost, you guys could just show, especially early in the series, you guys could just show palm trees, a bunch of palm trees, and you'd hear a noise, but that's all you got.

[592] And that was scarier to me than any effect that cost $800 million.

[593] Do you know what that is?

[594] I do think that one of my, you know, one of my favorite things, you know, is the use of sound as, like, what I've always wanted to do is a movie that took place in a, in a setting that didn't allow you to see much of what was going on.

[595] And when we were talking about Cloverfield, we actually, you know, the first script, someone read it, and it read like a, you know, a $200 million movie.

[596] And we were talking about how we actually wanted to show very little.

[597] And because of the video camera, we were, of course, limited, which was helpful.

[598] But the idea of what you would hear and the idea of the aftermath of something, you know, when I first talked to Steven Spielberg, when he and Tom Cruise were gonna do War of the Worlds.

[599] And I remember having a talk, a discussion with them about what they were thinking about, and one of the things that Stephen was saying, how he really wanted to use the, you know, sound and, and, and see very, very little of, you know, the destruction, these sort of tripod aliens coming down.

[600] And I just, I love the idea of using, you know, using sound or, you know, like, again, I think you think about something like Jurassic Park, one of the images that you, you think of is the water and seeing those, you know, those concentric circles with, with the audio of the, of the thump of the T -Rex coming.

[601] And that's as impressive and as impactful as any CG shot.

[602] And by the way, the amazing thing about that movie is when you look at that film, I think the number is 62 visual effects shots in that movie, which is nothing compared to the literally 2 ,000 visual effects shots you might have in a sort of current blockbuster.

[603] There were 62 CG shots.

[604] I mean, they had the giant animatronic puppets, but those were limited and could do, you know, But when you think about how sort of judiciously those things were used and the impact each shot had, we're now so sort of used to getting bludgeoned by so many different shots.

[605] And I'm sure I'm as responsible as anyone for that bludgeoning.

[606] But that idea of just like becoming immune to or numb to all that kind of imagery.

[607] It's earlier, it's interesting earlier when you were saying how you were wondering about, you know, how do we surprise people today and with kids knowing all the, you know, endings before they even see the movies.

[608] you know, where I thought you were going was like, you know, how do we make people, how do we impress people?

[609] How do we make people feel anything anymore, given the fact that we can sort of show them everything?

[610] And I'm really interested in that.

[611] Like, in a way, I feel like, you know, I just saw this, this movie over the weekend that was incredibly sweet.

[612] It's called the Minari.

[613] And it's this beautiful, sweet story about these Korean immigrants.

[614] And it's just a really beautifully done movie that 824 is putting out.

[615] And it was, it was more emotionally impactful, you know, and it was a very humble, sweet film, you know, and it was just like, there was just something about seeing a movie that was really, that really, you know, had an emotional punch, you know, that didn't have any of the stuff that in a way can be considered a crutch or, you know, you think it'll be spectacle and therefore it'll be impressive.

[616] And a lot of times it actually does the opposite.

[617] You know, I know, you mentioned Spielberg, and I know that you've worked with him and you guys are friends.

[618] I think one of the most famous examples of creating mystery is in Jaws, which I've always heard was an accident that he wanted to show the shark more, but because of technical reasons, he couldn't.

[619] So you don't really see the shark for a long time during the film.

[620] I was blown away by that because when you watch it now, you realize how effective it is, how powerful it is, to not see the threat and to have this mystery and this.

[621] sense of I think it's over here.

[622] I think it's over there.

[623] It darts in and out of the frame.

[624] You get little glimpses of it.

[625] Yeah.

[626] But to think today about trying to make a movie where you don't really show, you don't really see the threat until, I don't know if it's the third act or close to the third act is pretty stunning.

[627] Yeah, I agree.

[628] It's funny.

[629] The thing, I mean, obviously the story of sort of the shark known as Bruce, you know, not working is a famous story.

[630] And it's, it really did help the movie, like you say, and it reminds me of two things.

[631] One is the other things that like they thought they were going to do that ended up not being necessary and actually improving the movie.

[632] One day I was with Stephen in his office at his home and he's got a shelf of all these leatherbound scripts of his movies.

[633] And I saw Jaws.

[634] I said, do you mind if he's like, no, no, no. So I took it out and I opened it up.

[635] I opened to a random page.

[636] And on this page, somewhere in the script, there were three lines from Hooper and Brody and Quint that were all crossed off with blue pen.

[637] And this was his script that he had on the set.

[638] And right next to these three lines that were crossed out, that were sort of generic lines, was in pen written Brody, we're going to need a bigger boat.

[639] Wow.

[640] And it was like the idea that there was an onset decision to say, you know what, instead of those three, let's just have this one, and it's that.

[641] And the other thing reminded me of is in Alien, the original Alien, there's this one of the deleted scenes, Veronica Cartwright, who plays one of the crew, you know, in a terrifying scene where she's being killed.

[642] And it was a cut, not a cut scene, but it was a shot that was deleted that was this very wide angle shot down the corridor of her standing there and the alien kind of standing up.

[643] And it was literally the least scary thing you've ever seen in your life.

[644] Like it was like, it was not.

[645] remotely scary.

[646] And this is like one of the great scary movies in the history.

[647] It was like an old man getting out of a sofa.

[648] It was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm going to bite you.

[649] But I'm going to give you such a biting.

[650] I'm going to with my teeth, they're going to come out and snap.

[651] But it was, it was this and you realize like, you know, the point of view, the perspective, how critical that all those decisions are and seeing a shot directed by one of the great directors in one of the great movies.

[652] And you go, oh, they chose not to use that.

[653] Of course they chose not to use that.

[654] But like, you just realize how close we all are to, you know, even the greats can make, can make, you know, decisions that they think will work.

[655] And they later, if they're lucky, they realize not to use them.

[656] Yeah.

[657] Yeah.

[658] There is, I think it may be apocryphal, but I'm pretty sure that I think they shot like three.

[659] I don't know if they shot them, but they had three possible endings for Casablanca.

[660] And one of them was Humphrey Bogart, St. Dingerberbin.

[661] Baby, I'm coming with you.

[662] Fuck the French guy.

[663] And they get on the plane and, you know, it's just like, he can find someone else.

[664] Not the same.

[665] Yeah.

[666] And then the plane takes off and kooky music plays, yakety sacks, I think, Benny Hill theme.

[667] That would have been great.

[668] Yeah.

[669] They missed an opportunity.

[670] But I think I'm in Kassablanca with, and da -da -d -d -d -dik -dik.

[671] And the war got won and Hitler got beat.

[672] And that's all you need to know.

[673] And Rick, do you want to follow their story more?

[674] It's Kassablanca, too.

[675] You know, I always wonder how people come at, you know, the different angles they come at things.

[676] And I didn't know this when I first met you and I found out later on that initially the way you were approaching all this was through music.

[677] I mean, you were very interested in music.

[678] You were very interested in how things in scoring or how things were.

[679] Is that true or do I just have a lousy information?

[680] I love music and I'm always working on different tunes and I've done theme songs to some of the shows we've done.

[681] And when I was growing up, there were no VHS tapes.

[682] There were no DVDs or Blu -rays or streaming.

[683] It was like obviously like with you, like you saw what was on TV or what was in the theaters and that was it, you know, like it or lump it.

[684] And so for me, what I would do is I would buy, there was a record store nearby where I lived in Westwood that sold records that were, they were sent out from like as sort of samples that were sold.

[685] inexpensively.

[686] So they were like, they had little holes that were punched out of the top corner and you could buy them for two bucks.

[687] And all the soundtracks were there.

[688] None of the sort of hit records, but all the soundtrack.

[689] So I would buy soundtracks like every weekend.

[690] And I'd go home and I'd listen to soundtracks because I could tell what the story was based on the music and looking at the names of the tracks.

[691] And so I would lie there with my headphones on like we have on now.

[692] And I would be just, you know, looking at the soundtrack album cover and reading the names of the tracks and sort of whatever information it might have on the back.

[693] And I'd feel like I'd be watching the movie because, you know, certainly with composers like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, you know, Maurice Jarre, there were certain people that like they just, they told the story in their music.

[694] And so I always loved that.

[695] And I remember, like, we had a little stand -up piano at home and I would like, you know, sort of bang on the piano and sort of pretend those were check.

[696] or whatever, and people would walk by and be like, stop, you know.

[697] But in my mind, it was like I could hear, you know.

[698] Such a nurturing household.

[699] Exactly.

[700] But later, what I, what I learned was that there were, you know, there were these things called synthesizers and samplers, and I couldn't afford them until later.

[701] But when I finally got my hands on them, the idea that you could create most any sound, you know, allowed me to begin to make music never as good as or as well as I, you know, I'd like or as good as people who I know who do it for real.

[702] But I love it like crazy.

[703] And I actually even did music for a movie when I was a teenager that was called Night Beast.

[704] That was a movie actually released by Troma.

[705] And it was, and it was this, it was, it was Night Beast made by this man named Don Doller who was a director in Baltimore.

[706] He was sort of the horror equivalent to John Waters, and he would do these crazy, pretty DIY horror movies that were sort of wonderful in their weird little way.

[707] And so, and he made these magazines called like Cinemagic.

[708] Like, as a kid, there was no internet either.

[709] So it was like, I'd learn how to do animation or, you know, stop motion stuff or titles or whatever through these magazines.

[710] And I remember writing a letter to him.

[711] And he was like, yeah, I'm working on.

[712] a new movie and like, oh, wow, I'd love to do something.

[713] He's like, you want to do the soundtrack?

[714] I was like, sure, I'm 16.

[715] So I ended up like doing, you know, doing some of the music for that movie.

[716] And it was like, it was my first break.

[717] That's fantastic.

[718] It's either a really good sign or a bad sign when a 16 -year -old just randomly writes a filmmaker and he goes, like, sounds good.

[719] Hey, why don't you do the soundtrack and get it in here.

[720] It's so funny.

[721] I wish the story had a better ending and you'll see why.

[722] But when we were shooting the pilot for Lost and we were on, on the airplane set.

[723] And I believe it was probably the same airplane set that you and I shot on.

[724] And during lunch break, these people are coming to look and location scout the airplane, as if it's not a fucking airplane, it's an airplane.

[725] Anyway, so they're looking to, and the person who was scouting was Roger Corman.

[726] Oh, wow.

[727] And I went up to, I'm like, Mr. Corman, there's filming the cameras.

[728] If you want to film anything you want right now, go ahead, because he's the kind of guy who would shoot anything anywhere and just steal it.

[729] shots and do things, you know, and I just, you know, he didn't.

[730] And there's no ending to the story, other than I met Roger Corman.

[731] You know, I did get my shot in film, which was, do you remember the name of it?

[732] Was it shark native?

[733] Sharktopus.

[734] Sharktopus.

[735] Yeah.

[736] I forget how this even came about, but this was about 10 years ago, they said, it just, you know, crazy stuff comes over the transom.

[737] And then one thing was, would Conan like to do a cameo in Roger Corman's sharktipus?

[738] And I said, you had me at, would Conan like to?

[739] Because I'll do anything.

[740] No, I was just, Roger Corman, you're kidding.

[741] Is he going to actually direct it?

[742] And they said, yes.

[743] So I went to the beach, which I think is actually all roads lead back to everything, the same beach where they shot the ending of Planet of the Apes.

[744] I went to that beach and my job was to play Conan O 'Brien as an insufferable.

[745] I'm wearing a blue blazer and a yachting cap.

[746] And I have an assistant, remember I had an actress playing my assistant sona.

[747] Do you remember this?

[748] Right, yeah.

[749] She was fanning you or something.

[750] She was fanning me like I'm some absolutely out of touch.

[751] And I have a, and some kids are playing volleyball and they knock the volleyball and it hits me. And I jump up and I start screaming at them.

[752] I'm Conan O 'Brien.

[753] Do you have any idea that, you know, I'm one of the top television comedians in that?

[754] And as I'm screaming, you see a long tentacle come out of the water.

[755] Come on.

[756] That's fun.

[757] It goes up my ass, out my mouth, knocking the cap off my head.

[758] And then it rips my head off.

[759] The head rolls over to where the volleyball players are they pick it up and continue playing volleyball with my separate head.

[760] And I have this.

[761] Is that real?

[762] Yes.

[763] Oh, I'll get it to it.

[764] It's one of my favorite.

[765] It's.

[766] I know that I'm doing all day.

[767] That is my God.

[768] Yeah.

[769] It was just one of those.

[770] I think.

[771] I think I was there for four hours, and I've never been more certain that I was doing the right thing.

[772] I've never been more certain that my time, I've taken long walks with my son and daughter where I've talked about life, and my time with Roger Corman was much better spent.

[773] How was it?

[774] He was great.

[775] Yeah.

[776] He was terrific.

[777] He seemed like he was in...

[778] What an icon that guy?

[779] Yeah.

[780] Yeah, really.

[781] Just absolutely, just absolutely unbelievable experience which, you know, I don't know if you're able to step outside your situation now.

[782] I know you to be a very humble guy, but you've now created that kind of, you know, body of work where you're going to have, you already have people.

[783] I mean, the times that you've even passed my children, they wonder why you would ever spend a second with me. That's crazy.

[784] They put you on, yes, they do.

[785] They put you on such a pedestal.

[786] And then they're like, can you believe that J .J. Abrams, you know, I know that it is, it is the, the format of, you know, the podcast to have people say, my name is, and I feel this way about being your friend.

[787] But the reason I do feel exceedingly lucky is not just because, you know, obviously you're a lovely guy.

[788] And I know this is, you know, sounds sycophantic and stuff.

[789] But what I really truly believe, despite everything that has happened in the nearly 30 years, which I cannot believe, that have passed.

[790] The fact that I was sitting in that audience on that day watching you as this young comic come out to, you know, begin in this kind of like this crazy sort of precipitous moment for you, like what it was going to be, you know, and to get to see and have that audience electricity and to feel like, oh, here's a guy who's about to launch into the consciousness and sort of the, you know, into pop culture and the history of this country.

[791] and to have you be someone that now I get to know and hang out with.

[792] And it really truly does make me feel like a lucky guy.

[793] So I can't thank you enough for that.

[794] That's amazing.

[795] Well, that's very nice of you to say.

[796] I know there's a movie role coming.

[797] How could there not be?

[798] Just get that vein surgery.

[799] Just deal with that vein and you're good.

[800] I will not torture you any longer.

[801] just absolute delight.

[802] And you've made everybody snap to attention when they heard that you were coming on the podcast.

[803] Oh, please.

[804] It is my absolute honor.

[805] Thank you so much for asking.

[806] Let's do this again tomorrow.

[807] Later today would be better.

[808] Okay, good.

[809] I'm available.

[810] Okay.

[811] Hey, it's been a while since we've reviewed the reviewers.

[812] Are you guys up for that?

[813] I'll admit I'm always somewhat guarded.

[814] I tense up a little bit.

[815] I've feared criticism since I was a child.

[816] I'm always worried about what someone's going to say.

[817] But let's do it.

[818] You know that I'll take care of you.

[819] I screen these.

[820] Oh, okay.

[821] Well, I hate when you say that.

[822] It makes me think there's horrible stuff I'm not hearing.

[823] So I mean, I'm screening all the praise.

[824] It's just sometimes it's too laudatory and it has to be taken down to just faint or normal praise.

[825] But there is not a single critical one of these.

[826] You're kidding.

[827] But this is going to be something I think about at three o 'clock in the morning because that's when I wake up.

[828] I wake up at three and I go through my rosary beat of self -loathing.

[829] Click one beat at a time.

[830] Anyway, let's go.

[831] Let's do it.

[832] Okay.

[833] Subject, I need to know.

[834] Three exclamation marks.

[835] Five stars by J. Kauai 9.

[836] I'm sure that I'm not the first to ask this, but what do your sponsors think of the way you go about reading their advertisements?

[837] Personally, your take is so hilarious that I don't even fast forward to the ads, which is saying a lot.

[838] Do not ever change, which I'm sure by now is a safe bet.

[839] Sona and Gorley, the show wouldn't be the same without both of you.

[840] Hey.

[841] I know that Conan will disagree, but that's really what makes him so special.

[842] Malama, Pono, take care.

[843] Did he say porno at the end?

[844] No, Pono.

[845] I think it's Hawaiian.

[846] Oh, okay, I'm sorry.

[847] I'm sorry.

[848] I thought he said, my love is porno.

[849] Why did your mind go there?

[850] Please.

[851] I didn't mean to lower what was otherwise a lovely sentiment until he delved into pornography in the end.

[852] I'm glad.

[853] I'm glad they like the way I read ads.

[854] I read ads the only way I can, which is I can't, I cannot read straight copy.

[855] I have no idea what advertisers think about what we're doing.

[856] And I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to sound cool or anything, but I honestly don't care.

[857] I really don't care.

[858] I mean, I love doing the podcast and I love that the ads are able to sustain us, but when there's copy that sounds blatantly ridiculous coming out of my mouth, I have to say something about it.

[859] So I can tell you a little bit that there's a certain amount of removal.

[860] So there's the advertisers, then the stitcher people that have to collect all that, and then very gingerly ask for things to be edited out because they were too sharp a commentary.

[861] Like what?

[862] Obviously, you didn't ask my permission first, so this is a revelation.

[863] You're editing me out editorially without consulting me?

[864] You're not even in this podcast.

[865] That's probably why it's doing so well.

[866] I'm shocked you still have sponsors if I'm going to be blunt.

[867] Well, no. Well, first of all, I think one of the reasons we have sponsors is that I don't think I'm saying anything people don't know.

[868] The podcast has been very successful.

[869] It's listened.

[870] I think the latest figures are over nine.

[871] billion people just in America alone, which means, yeah, which is hard to do in a country of only 345 million people.

[872] And also, people do listen to the ads.

[873] They don't fast forward through them.

[874] So they are hearing the name of the product.

[875] Occasionally, they're hearing me rail against the product.

[876] Right.

[877] But you still walk away remembering the name of the product.

[878] And as any advertiser will tell you, that's nine -tenths of the battle.

[879] That is why I think advertisers are sticking with us.

[880] So I am curious when I can just imagine goarly mopping his brow with a vintage.

[881] Don't say, I love how your improv is just no. Are we improvving?

[882] Yeah, this isn't improv.

[883] Yeah, this isn't improv.

[884] It is an improv.

[885] I'm laying out there that you are a fop.

[886] Oh, no, no. You are a cloth handkerchief carrying fop.

[887] And every now and then, you're talking to somebody at a mattress company and you're mopping your brow going, let, please, please.

[888] Go.

[889] No. No. No. Stick a dick, you weird clown.

[890] What the hell is going on?

[891] Stick a dick, you weird clown.

[892] Stick a dick.

[893] I don't get that at all.

[894] I don't know what that is.

[895] I love that.

[896] I don't either.

[897] It just came out.

[898] Let's move on.

[899] That's insanity.

[900] Stick a dick, you weird clown.

[901] And you're the guy who's editing me?

[902] That's what I love.

[903] Who's editing you?

[904] The guy you just shouted, stick a dick, you weird clown, is editing me out of my own ads.

[905] Stick a dick, you weird clown.

[906] This is from the person who's editing me. Unbelievable.

[907] Well, anyway, I hope you don't back down too much, Gorley.

[908] I hope you stand up for yourself.

[909] I don't.

[910] And I'm on your side.

[911] Right.

[912] There's been a couple of times where I've sort of in a fun way implied that the product I'm promoting will kill you instantly.

[913] I think it might be something along those lines.

[914] Yeah, and maybe you've had to edit those out.

[915] Right.

[916] You also have disdain for anything computer related that you don't understand.

[917] You automatically just bash it.

[918] I don't think the computer will be part of the future.

[919] I think it's a fad.

[920] Oh.

[921] I do.

[922] I do think personal computing, and I think most of the advances in the last 15 years will melt away.

[923] And we will go back to the abacus, wooden beads.

[924] You'll see this word.

[925] One day you're going to look back on this and go, what was that thing we did where we crunched a lot of information down using silicon chips?

[926] Oh, I don't remember.

[927] Click, clack, click, clack.

[928] Enjoying your abacus?

[929] I have more than one.

[930] Oh, then.

[931] Are you enjoying your abacai?

[932] I am, father.

[933] That's the future I envision.

[934] That was just you proving, you know, the plural of abacus.

[935] Yeah.

[936] Okay.

[937] Let's do another.

[938] Our favorite podcast, five stars, by M. Madeline.

[939] Hi, I'm nine years old and I listen to your podcast.

[940] I think you are so funny.

[941] Hashtag.

[942] Love it.

[943] Nine.

[944] She's nine.

[945] I'm so glad she's going to hear stick a dick, you weird clown.

[946] I just don't think a nine -year -old should be listening to this podcast.

[947] I mean, first of all, what is her name?

[948] Madeline?

[949] Yeah.

[950] Madeline, that's very nice.

[951] I'm sure you're hearing some things on this podcast that are frightening or confuse you, and I apologize for that.

[952] It's weird because it has content that a nine -year -old shouldn't hear, but the maturity level of it is about a nine -year -old.

[953] True.

[954] Yeah, it's one of those weird.

[955] It happens very rarely that things line up that way.

[956] Well, I think I'm glad that Madeline clearly has very good taste.

[957] And I just hope sometimes I know that we delve into areas that maybe a nine -year -old shouldn't be hearing about.

[958] And I blame Sona for that because she is, well, you're kind of, you're a filthy, dirty person.

[959] It's called Cohn and O 'Brien needs a friend, so.

[960] I need a friend who doesn't.

[961] have their mind in the gutter.

[962] Oh, good one.

[963] Would you say to me?

[964] Would you say good one?

[965] I was mocking that comeback that you had because it was terrible.

[966] I said, oh, ha, good one.

[967] Ah, yes.

[968] You're proving that my comeback was no good.

[969] Yeah.

[970] The old, ha, ha, good one.

[971] Madeline now is changing her mind.

[972] A nine -year -old is being driven away from the podcast.

[973] She switched to Joe Rogan.

[974] She's now pumping iron.

[975] Madeline's going to have arms for days.

[976] soon.

[977] Check out these guns.

[978] That's nice.

[979] That's nice.

[980] I'm glad that she's listening to the podcast and maybe she'll learn a lot.

[981] I know that we go on weird.

[982] No, she won't.

[983] Well, no. She learned the plural of abacus is abacai.

[984] So there you go.

[985] No one learns anything from this podcast.

[986] This podcast has nothing educational whatsoever about it.

[987] This podcast is the equivalent of lead in the water supply.

[988] It shortens your attention span.

[989] You start to drastically lose IQ.

[990] You have difficulty sleeping and eventually your empire crumbles.

[991] In this case, Rome.

[992] Hey, I also got some bad news for you.

[993] Uh -oh.

[994] The plural of abacus is abacuses.

[995] Damn it!

[996] Oh, you're a moron.

[997] I'm kidding.

[998] You know what I love, though?

[999] First of all, abacuses is terrible.

[1000] I would like to move.

[1001] and I think we should contact the Oxford English Dictionary people.

[1002] And I'm serious about this.

[1003] I think we should contact them and say, we want the plural of abacus to be abacai.

[1004] Isn't Abakai a great name?

[1005] Sounds like someone from the Bible.

[1006] Yeah, we're going to start a movement, a very important movement, to change the plural of abacus.

[1007] The word abacai puts me in mind of a story, as Abraham Lincoln used to say, that puts me in mind of a story.

[1008] You all remember the dean of the actor's studio.

[1009] James Lipton.

[1010] He was a frequent guest on our late night show and did lots of bits for us and was a really terrific guy and a great raconteur of the old school.

[1011] And his lovely, he passed away recently, which was sad, but he lived this amazingly full, long life.

[1012] And his wife's name was Catechai.

[1013] And I met Catecite and she was lovely.

[1014] And I once, I think it was Elaine's restaurant.

[1015] I got to have dinner with James Lipton.

[1016] and he invited me to dinner.

[1017] I think we did something together.

[1018] And then he said, let's off to Elaine's.

[1019] And so the next thing I knew, I made Elaine's restaurant for the first time, and I'm eating with James Lipton.

[1020] And there are all these paintings and stuff on the wall and different pictures of different interesting people and sketches.

[1021] And there was a painting of a woman behind James Lipton, and he's chewing away at his pork chop.

[1022] And he said, do you see that beautiful nude woman, that painting on the wall behind me?

[1023] And I said, yes.

[1024] And he said, do you know who that woman is?

[1025] Oh, no. And I said, no. And he said, it's catechai.

[1026] And I dropped my fork and said, that's the fucking greatest line that anyone has said to me in my life.

[1027] I'll never forget.

[1028] James Lipton had, I think he had tied like a old school, had put like a napkin around his neck, you know, his throat to keep the food from getting on his suit.

[1029] And he was chewing.

[1030] And he said, that woman behind me, you see her?

[1031] And it was this very attractive nude woman and the painting was maybe, I don't know, 20, 30 years old.

[1032] And he went, he said, you know her identity.

[1033] And I said, no, I don't.

[1034] And he went, it's catacal as God made her.

[1035] Oh, my God.

[1036] What a fantastic moment in my life.

[1037] And his wife was sitting next to him, just sort of like nodding, going, yeah.

[1038] Okay, James.

[1039] Maybe not tell everyone that that, That's a nude portrait of me. Katicai as God made her.

[1040] If people take one thing away from my podcast, I want it to be that.

[1041] Madeline, nine -year -old, Madeline, if you're listening right now, I may not know the plural.

[1042] I may not know the plural of abacus, is abacuses, which it should not be.

[1043] But I do know this, that when you see a nude portrait in what's the now closed Elaine's restaurant, you should say, catachai as god made her and then take a big swallow of a pork chop hey listen can i make one appeal if you're a fan of this show and you see me out in the world because i am out there i walk around and i'm easy to spot uh if you say to me katakai as god made her i will give you ten dollars oh my god you want that in this podcast i don't know that could have been a very foolish thing i just said you let me know that's crazy ten dollars i could lose a lot of money yeah that's That's, don't do that.

[1044] What do you do?

[1045] Okay, don't do that.

[1046] I'm going to actually say this.

[1047] If you see me out in the world, listeners to this podcast, if you see me, you know me when you see me, right, Sona?

[1048] Yeah, you're a giant white man with red hair, and it's very easy to spot you.

[1049] Okay.

[1050] Anyway, if you see me, if you see me, all I ask you to do is shout, Kada Kai, as God made her.

[1051] And, uh, I will go.

[1052] greet you very happily.

[1053] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Sonam O 'Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[1054] Produced by me, Matt Goreley.

[1055] Executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

[1056] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[1057] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[1058] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[1059] The show is engineered by Will Beckton.

[1060] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcast.

[1061] and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[1062] Got a question for Conan?

[1063] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.

[1064] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[1065] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[1066] This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.