Alexi Pappas

[0] Welcome, welcome to armchair, expert, experts on expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard, and I'm joined in absentia and with great love Monica Padman.

[2] Today, we have, as anyone that knows Monica and I will know, the perfect guest, an Olympian.

[3] Alexi Pappas is a Greek -American Olympic athlete, a writer, actress, and filmmaker.

[4] Alexi competed in the Rio Olympics, setting a national record in the 10K with a time of 31.

[5] She has a new book out called Bravery, Chasing Dreams, Befriending Pain, and Other Big Ideas.

[6] Very fascinating look at what the post -Olympic experience is like.

[7] So please enjoy Alexi Pappas.

[8] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[9] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[10] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[11] He's an I'm chanxper Hello Oh man We're tardy So, so sorry Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry Okay, we just talked about all your secrets Oh And I know them all I want to know If you know some of my secrets That I don't know Probably now I know your preference in jellies And that you don't That I don't bathe frequently Did he tell you that?

[12] All of those things.

[13] I'm going to appeal to your sense of compassion.

[14] The delay was I had forgot to shoot up all my antibiotics into my sexy port.

[15] And so that takes a while, and I apologize.

[16] It slipped my mind.

[17] That would be like if I forgot to feed my dog, I would have to do it.

[18] There are things that you have to do.

[19] And it takes time, actually, because my dog is a pug.

[20] And we feed our freeze -dried raw food, and you have to, like, soak it for a while.

[21] and every time she cries while it's soaking, as if she's not going to get fed. Can I make a suggestion, a hack, per se?

[22] Please.

[23] What's her name?

[24] Bernini.

[25] So I would lob off Bernini's food at night.

[26] I'd put it in the dish, and then I'd put it in the fridge at night, and then when you wake up, we're thawed.

[27] That's actually really smart.

[28] So it's like the overnight oats of dog food, right?

[29] Right, because it's soaking.

[30] Well, and you know why that's smart is because if we left it out, she would know and she would think it's time to eat and she would smell it, I think.

[31] Yeah.

[32] Is she around?

[33] Can I see her?

[34] I can get her.

[35] No, don't get her.

[36] But if she was like at your feet, I would want you to lift her up and show me. You said we.

[37] Who's we?

[38] You've already shown your cards.

[39] Okay.

[40] I live in a cabin in Woodland Hills and I live with my husband and creative partner, Jeremy, and with Bernini, our loyal pug daughter.

[41] And you will meet her.

[42] pug daughter there's a way to make that monica one word right because there's a g h and daughter and then you got a g and pug dog der dogder dogder that's your dogder that's cute yeah this dogder how long have you lived in la we moved here after south by 2019 when before that i was living in mammoth lakes which is where most people go there to ski okay just you get this for two seconds because she's not It's going to be very, this is Bernini.

[43] Oh, my God.

[44] Rob, snap a pick of that.

[45] Yeah, Rob, get a nice photo.

[46] Although, you know, you really got to light her.

[47] She's so black that you need like a spotlight on her to see the features.

[48] We'll try to shine a light on her.

[49] Oh, good.

[50] This is really becoming a thing.

[51] Oh, my God.

[52] She's so cute.

[53] She's a pug?

[54] So she's full grown.

[55] She was a runt.

[56] And she never grew bigger than about 10 to 12.

[57] pounds.

[58] Oh, my God.

[59] She's really good.

[60] Hi.

[61] Okay, well, we'll put her away, but she's thrilled to meet you.

[62] She's lean.

[63] She doesn't have those back ripples I'm used to on pugs.

[64] Yeah, she's like a football player at the dog park where she like will play with the big dogs.

[65] She runs.

[66] Even though I am a runner that has been a job of mine, I never forced my child into the sport.

[67] She found it on her own.

[68] Yeah.

[69] I sound like a crazy person who's like my daughter.

[70] My dog is my daughter.

[71] So I lived in Mammoth for about three years after the Olympics.

[72] And prior to that, I was in Eugene Oregon, which is like the mecca of distance running.

[73] Oh, it is because a Nike and the University of Oregon.

[74] Yep.

[75] Yep.

[76] So Eugene is nicknamed Tracktown USA.

[77] That's like it's actual nickname.

[78] Oh.

[79] I want to give a shout out to a. a hotel there.

[80] The Inn at the Fifth.

[81] Did you ever go there?

[82] I know the Inn at the Fifth.

[83] That's the nice hotel in Eugene, I think.

[84] We made a movie there, Tracktown, and we put Rachel Dratch up in the Inn at the Fifth, and that was our, like, our great gesture, you know?

[85] Yeah, you're generous gesture.

[86] When did you go there?

[87] Well, my mother lives in Oregon, so we often drive up there, I don't know, a couple times a year.

[88] And sometimes, in the winter in particular, if we're going up for Christmas, because the Inn at the Fifth is decorated really pretty, and there's that really neat French restaurant right at the bottom.

[89] That's delicious.

[90] And so we, instead of driving straight to my mom's, we'll stop there for the night, and then we'll have a French meal, and we'll maybe go buy some toys.

[91] And then we get back on the road and end up in, uh, used to be Hood River the next morning.

[92] That's awesome.

[93] Did you go to University of Oregon?

[94] So I did a fifth year there, which is like your final year of college.

[95] I did undergrad in New Hampshire at Dartmouth.

[96] Very elite.

[97] Unifile.

[98] We like that.

[99] Dartmouth was like a big summer camp.

[100] And then I had this one like two seasons of eligibility left and even though I was like the worst on my running team at Dartmouth when I got there and was very into improv comedy I became very good at running during my time there and I had this two seasons of eligibility and it was like a very difficult decision because I thought I was going to go pursue the arts pursue like poetry and more wherever improv leads but I had this window to run and so I was I went to Oregon because that was the best school to run at, and it opened up the window to go to the Olympics.

[101] So this is interesting.

[102] So then it's not that, or at least I'm now assuming, you weren't on an Olympic track per se when you went to college.

[103] No. And I think that's important to say because even though I think every kid kind of dreams of the Olympics to some extent, like I did.

[104] Oh, Monica's a big, she really had fantasies of grandeur at the Olympics.

[105] They were of grandeur because I was never, ever, ever going to make it there.

[106] But, God, it's so alluring the Olympics.

[107] Well, so, Monica, if you did go to the Olympics, what would it be?

[108] Gymnastics was the dream.

[109] But, I mean, look, in retrospect, I think I dodged a bullet, not saying that I would ever have been able to do it.

[110] She won't brag for herself, but we took the 23MME.

[111] She has the elite muscle gene.

[112] Elite muscle mass. So probably could have done it.

[113] No, I couldn't have.

[114] But especially with gymnastics, part of the reason I couldn't do it is because I started way too late.

[115] I started at eight and you have to start at like four to be in that category.

[116] And, God, your whole life is that.

[117] But you didn't have that.

[118] That's so interesting.

[119] Yes, because in gymnastics at eight, you're middle aged.

[120] And in running and particularly female distance running, you don't peak until you're like, some people say like 34.

[121] but it's certainly like later in your 20s.

[122] And for me, I think sports were always in my life.

[123] My dad raised us as like a single dad after my mom passed away.

[124] And I think this was like the only way he knew how to teach us, teach my brother me to fall down and definitely get back up.

[125] So we were in tons of sports.

[126] He brought us to watch the Olympics in 96.

[127] In Atlanta.

[128] In Atlanta.

[129] And I watched a guy run the marathon that later became one of my Olympic coaches.

[130] So it was like, I didn't know that, obviously, at the time.

[131] But so it was in the back of my head, but I was very into performing in another way, which was like the improv theater, the writing.

[132] And that's what I did at Dartmouth when I was like the worst on the team, but still on the team.

[133] So really quick, you ran in high school, I presume.

[134] So I ran freshman and sophomore year of high school, and I was very good at it.

[135] but I did not like it because running...

[136] Because it's miserable.

[137] Because it's painful.

[138] It hurts for me just like it hurts for you.

[139] Like I'll just say it.

[140] It just, it does.

[141] But the thing that makes it fun is when you have people to run with because it's a very social sport.

[142] And my high school team was just like the coaches were not super...

[143] I mean, my coach was like actually an alcoholic and had a lot of things going on.

[144] And he wanted us to do.

[145] just run and not do any of the other activities and the other activities were like whatever you do student government like dating other sports yeah dances like all the things and I wasn't ready to quit every other activity and just run as a 15 year old and so I had this ultimatum to either quit everything and just run which I was good at but didn't love or not run and so I got like de facto kicked off my team in high school twice and so So I didn't run at all, junior and senior year of high school, and I played soccer and did all the things I wanted to do and felt like I was enjoying.

[146] But it felt upset because I wanted to be able to like find joy and running.

[147] I just wasn't ready to be like pushed into it.

[148] But the positive outcome of that was that I went through like puberty in a really normal way.

[149] And, you know, I had your periods in a normal scheduled fashion.

[150] Yeah.

[151] Good job.

[152] Some of those athletes, right, they won't have a period for years.

[153] Some people don't have them until late in their 20s or really, really delayed because they're training so hard at like age 16, 17, 18.

[154] And so I wasn't training hard.

[155] It didn't feel like really a choice that I made.

[156] I wish that like development was more built into the high school running environment.

[157] Prioritized a bit.

[158] Really quick.

[159] Before we move on, I'm kidding.

[160] curious, is there a physiological answer for the late onset of the peak performance for female runners?

[161] Is there like some kind of chemical explanation or physiological explanation?

[162] I think it's just that like the female athlete is much more capable than like the kid athlete.

[163] Same probably with the male athlete and the little boy athlete.

[164] And let's just say we become our full female athlete selves when we're like 20 years old.

[165] or something.

[166] And then you can really begin training at a level that would add up eventually to your peak.

[167] I just came up with this idea.

[168] I want to see if you dig it at all.

[169] If ever there was a sport that was so reliant on the frontal lobe, it would have to be long distance running because the entire thing is projecting into the future and pushing yourself currently for a reward that is so delayed.

[170] And we do know that human brains don't develop that frontal lobe, fully until they're out of high school okay wait so explain this more to me so that means that once you develop the frontal lobe you can like participate more in goals that have delayed gratification yes so most of your brain is occupied with serving its immediate desires and needs you have a ton of chemicals in there right your pleasure reward system's telling you to go eat this and then the frontal lobes the part of your brain that is the last to develop in our last stage of evolution.

[171] And it's why kids make terrible decisions.

[172] They make, like, oh, I'm going to go drive this car drunk because it's going to be awesome right now.

[173] And they're just not great at projecting into the future.

[174] So I feel like your sport in particular must rely most heavily on the frontal lobe.

[175] I never knew that.

[176] I never knew why my forehead was so big, but it is.

[177] I think that's true.

[178] I think that's true.

[179] And it is like a sport that's as mental as it is physical when you get into like the long, long distance running.

[180] I mean, those are races of attrition, right?

[181] It's not about the heroic sprint at the end as much as it's about hanging in there and being there at the end.

[182] Yeah.

[183] I want to earmark something about this for later in your story when we talk about starting to deal with depression.

[184] And then what I would imagine, your training is almost your worst enemy in that, like, you have conditioned yourself to ignore the signs of discomfort and you have put so much time into, yeah, this fucking sucks, but I'll get through it, and there'll be something on the other side of it, that that could end up being a terrible mechanism for addressing one's mental state at any given time.

[185] Yes, like particularly if the world sees you as some kind of like superhero, then you're not even allowed to, this is not true, but you feel that you're not allowed to experience vulnerabilities and negative emotions yeah they always want to see you as like a superhero and this is probably something that I created but I've experienced this in physical and mental pain where I'll be in some kind of physical pain but still be able to run like 20 miles or 100 miles in a week and be told that there's no way I'm injured if I could do that workout and I guess that's on me to understand that even though I have a high pain tolerance it doesn't mean it's like good pain and there's like good pain and bad pain.

[186] I'm just relating to you.

[187] As you see, I have this poured in my arm and I've had three surgeries this year and I have a really high pain threshold and the people that love me go like just because you're not suffering from these injuries does not mean you should keep accumulating them.

[188] Yeah.

[189] That's a really delicate line and that's where we rely on people to tell us certain boundaries like objectively.

[190] And that's why it helps to have like a mental health doctor say like you are sick or your brain is injured, just like it helps to have a coach or a doctor tell you like your arm will not heal for two more months.

[191] So just chill even if you feel good.

[192] Yeah.

[193] It's so interesting, isn't it, about mental health is it has this underbelly of shame.

[194] Whereas if you broke your tibia running, you'd go, yeah, I don't feel embarrassed by that or shameful about that.

[195] It fucking broke.

[196] I push it too hard.

[197] But the other thing, you really need a doctor to say, you don't need to feel shame.

[198] You are sick and you need treatment.

[199] And I'm giving you permission to not feel like it's a weakness.

[200] Yeah.

[201] And I think something that you and I would probably agree on is like we like having goals in our future, those things that we look forward to.

[202] And if we know the goal is fitness or we know the goal is whatever goal you're chasing, we can like zone in and chase that goal.

[203] But if someone were to tell us, actually, your goal should be health because you're not healthy, we would probably be able to shift focus and make that our goal.

[204] It's just if you don't know to recalibrate and shift your goal, then we won't.

[205] Yeah.

[206] My goal was make a lot of money and have people recognize me. And that ultimately didn't feel great.

[207] Well, that feels like the equivalent of when I was chasing my own versions of outward accomplishment, right?

[208] And for me, it came from a place, and I don't know if you both can relate, but I think I was driven by like an unhealthy drive to not be like what I thought my mother was.

[209] She took her on life.

[210] So I had a lot of association with that where I just like, I want to be anything but that.

[211] Yeah, you were five, right?

[212] Your mother committed suicide when you were five years old.

[213] Yeah.

[214] And what I like about you is I saw you in an interview owning your resentment towards her.

[215] Tell us about that.

[216] I like that you admitted that.

[217] Well, it's so powerful.

[218] For me, it came from a place of the narrative I was kind of fed about her, about her mental health injury was that she was just so sick that she had to leave.

[219] And the things that I saw in the first few years of life, like I had four memories and three of them were just terrifying and awful, made me feel like if I ever felt the things that she felt, then my fate might be a foregone.

[220] conclusion because of the narrative that I was fed and also what I saw.

[221] How was her mental health explained to you?

[222] So when she was sick, like in the first few years of my life, she wasn't around because she was in and out of these, just like drug rehab or mental health rehab.

[223] She just kept having episodes including, I mean, I don't know how specific to be here.

[224] Whatever you're comfortable with.

[225] It was totally up to you.

[226] Well, and also this comes from a place of like some of my audience are, like 15 year old girls.

[227] So I'm just like, I'm very aware that there's like a version of this that I can say.

[228] But unfortunately, we are not huge in the 15 demo.

[229] We're trying to get there.

[230] But I think we're definitely more college graduate demo.

[231] Exactly.

[232] So I mean, she was manic depressive.

[233] So she would have these manic episodes when she was home and just experiencing someone who's like, thinks like the toaster is talking to her and just screaming like all I could remember was like seeing her as this like a Barbie doll where like you brush its hair too much, just like kind of crazy woman figure who could not handle her shit.

[234] And it made me really sad.

[235] So I didn't really resent her at that time because I was sad for her.

[236] And it's hard to feel resentment towards someone you feel bad for.

[237] But it's also hard to look up to them.

[238] Well, let me just add, have you seen the ACE test you can take, childhood trauma tests?

[239] And if you have, you know, more than three of the 10, you're likely to have some pretty predictable.

[240] outcomes and one of the main ones is if did you have a parent with mental health issues so like what you experience is very very traumatic yeah and one time i saved her life because i walked in on her she was like trying to like saw her arm off and i walked in on that when i was like four and i didn't really understand what was going on but she didn't want my help at that time but i did it any way, because we have an instinct where, like, blood is bad and, like, we're going to do something about it.

[241] Yeah.

[242] Yeah.

[243] But, you know, it was confusing was that she didn't seem to be in pain.

[244] Like, she was very stoic and, like, it was almost like, she was like a concert violinist, like, trying to, like, do something to herself.

[245] And so I was very confused about what that pain meant, but still got help because blood meant bad.

[246] I cannot imagine seeing that.

[247] That is, that's out of a horror movie.

[248] Yeah.

[249] It was bad.

[250] It was bad.

[251] I needed to make sense of it because my dad, I love him.

[252] I love him.

[253] He's amazing.

[254] He was single parent, engineer type, so like not very, let's talk about it.

[255] So he put us in sports.

[256] We didn't talk about it.

[257] And I think he thought that those memories would fade like a bruise fades.

[258] Like it'll go away.

[259] Yeah.

[260] But I needed to make sense of it.

[261] And I think I did two things.

[262] Like one wanted to be as opposite of her as I possibly could.

[263] So that meant happy.

[264] successful, accomplishing all those things.

[265] In control of yourself.

[266] Yeah, exactly.

[267] And two, I think it meant that I needed to use my imagination because with the saw, the only other time you see someone using a saw in that way is like in Looney Tunes.

[268] And I tried to at least create for myself a circumstance where if the most unimaginably bad things were possible, like seeing something like that which I'd only ever seen in cartoons then maybe anything was also possible.

[269] So I think I became a little bit entitled or like, I was like, I'm special and like this is an awful thing but also the best version of this is also possible.

[270] That takes so much strength to be able to turn that into a positive thing.

[271] Entitled I don't think is the word.

[272] We had a 30 -minute debate about entitlement the other day.

[273] So you're kind of just walking into a previous But it's, I mean, not to like really hit the nail on the head, but it's brave.

[274] It's brave to do that to turn something so profoundly negative.

[275] Yeah, I'm relating to it in a different way.

[276] And I bet it's not the same.

[277] But I took those events that I knew were not normal or deserving.

[278] And what I really did is I said, because of this, I deserve something amazing.

[279] Yes.

[280] Because I've had to endure this, I almost have an excuse now.

[281] So you did something very productive, but mine was generally like chaos, addiction.

[282] But I felt very entitled to that because I had experienced the other thing.

[283] I felt like I was owed that.

[284] Yeah, I think it was the same mindset.

[285] Just we made certain different decisions.

[286] And I didn't always make the productive decisions.

[287] Sometimes I would like sneak out and drink with boys under eight.

[288] You know, I did things like that.

[289] And I was like, well, this isn't as bad as killing myself.

[290] So it, like, isn't.

[291] I mean, and we're talking really, really frank here.

[292] But I honestly had, like, a very weird thing to compare myself to.

[293] And I did, like, often compare myself to it.

[294] And I think the thing that we find is that we want to chase that feeling of, like, satisfaction, and we've done it.

[295] We've avoided the thing we wanted to avoid.

[296] And you want to feel that final conclusion that you've definitely done it.

[297] And I chased that through.

[298] a lot of outward accomplishment.

[299] And the thing is, is that I did get a lot of those outward accomplishments.

[300] To be driven by trauma is really potent.

[301] It's just also really unsustainable.

[302] Yeah.

[303] And do you think you also got really skilled at fantasy?

[304] Yeah, like visualizing where you were going or how did it apply for you?

[305] Yeah.

[306] So like I didn't want to be often where I was at.

[307] So I had this just very active.

[308] I was constantly planning where I would end up because I didn't like this.

[309] And so with no game plan, I would just sit and practice my interview with David Letterman.

[310] But I wasn't going to pursue acting or anything.

[311] I don't know why I was going to get there.

[312] But maybe that's universal.

[313] I don't know.

[314] But I do know that I was super preoccupied with this life I would at some point be occupying where I was really special, whether I was a novelist or I was a musician or something.

[315] I just was really active with those fantasies.

[316] Yes.

[317] So that seems like a good thing.

[318] I did that too.

[319] And I think I also tried to fill this like gap of the mother role with other women, like obsessed with women.

[320] And like for some reason I seem to have fixated on women in comedy.

[321] And I don't know why.

[322] But like I thought about it.

[323] I've never said this out loud.

[324] So maybe it's going to make me sound kind of silly.

[325] But like I would read Amy Puller's book or I would listen to it on audio book on repeat.

[326] And it just to feel like she was.

[327] was talking to me, and it was because I wanted to be, I don't know, like, accepted by that person.

[328] And I think it's because women in comedy, what reminded me of the closest thing to maybe what the best version of my mom could have been, of someone who, like, had, I don't mean like a bipolar manic person.

[329] I just mean what I was perceiving in comedy was like highs and lows and honesty.

[330] Could have been the best version of her.

[331] And I've never said this out loud, so I don't know if it makes any sense.

[332] Yeah.

[333] No, it does.

[334] And I just, I was excited.

[335] I did, I was pointing at Monica because she, too, had her own thing and her own fantasies derived by, I don't want to speak for you, but feelings of otherness and a similar fascination with Amy Poehler or.

[336] Yeah, I mean, comedy, it's so cliche, but it's the truth that you seek it out when you feel on the outside.

[337] I mean, that just seems to be a through line of all the comedians we know and talk to and stuff.

[338] Like at some point they felt.

[339] Don't you think we feel like a. A unique perspective, exactly.

[340] Like, we're observing everyone else because we're not on the inside of that circle.

[341] And our observation gives us this great ability to be critical in a funny way of that, since we're not submerged on it.

[342] We think we're not in the water.

[343] And we can point it out.

[344] Yeah.

[345] Until you are, then it's.

[346] Yeah, then you're confused.

[347] Right.

[348] Like, until you are means when you are like a part of the game, you're not just on the sidelines.

[349] Then what do you do?

[350] Do you accept yourself or do you watch your stuff?

[351] still playing the game while you're in it.

[352] Yeah, for me personally, it's been both big time.

[353] Okay, so I'm so glad to hear this, this fantasy thing, because I want to go through getting to the Olympics, because the ride up is still so driven by how you will ultimately feel when you arrive.

[354] I'm guessing.

[355] So the ride up from Oregon to Rio is how many years?

[356] It's about three and a half years.

[357] And it's not that I wasn't training my very hardest until.

[358] that point.

[359] Like, I've always somebody who tries my best.

[360] It's just that me trying my best didn't yield, like, world -class level results until this point.

[361] So it wasn't like I made a major shift.

[362] Yeah.

[363] I always took my dreams pretty seriously that I wanted to improve in whatever I was doing.

[364] It's just suddenly I was in a position where other people believed in me, too, and I could formally commit to that goal.

[365] So I don't want to make it seem like this suddenly clicked on.

[366] It was just suddenly the goal came into view and it was just a much bigger goal.

[367] Did you have any panic?

[368] Like once it became more and real, because I can't imagine that when you're at Dartmouth, it's not like that was a realistic goal that you'd be at the Olympics.

[369] But as it starts getting more realistic, are you at all starting to get consumed with panic?

[370] Because it'd be easy for me to not panic about something I didn't think it was possible.

[371] But as soon as it became possible, I think there'd be another layer of stress or anxiety.

[372] Yeah.

[373] It felt almost because the timeline was more.

[374] compressed.

[375] Like, I needed to nail every rung on the ladder.

[376] I was climbing.

[377] And if I just grabbed and I got every one, I could pull it off.

[378] And the truth is that I did at that time.

[379] Yeah.

[380] And it was because I do think that I thought that that accomplishment, which is objectively one of the greatest things you can accomplish, would make me feel that certain way.

[381] And I would never have shared that, but you know inside when you're chasing this external thing to solve an internal problem, I guess maybe you realize it later.

[382] Do you think what you were searching for, though, wasn't so much validation, but just security that you equated success with positive mental health?

[383] Like in your brain, being successful meant being happy, which meant you were immune to the disease of your mother.

[384] Yeah, I think it was that.

[385] And I think, I think it was also, at that time, I didn't understand her.

[386] And so it was also a little bit of like, I can do this without you.

[387] The relationship with her has been so evolving even though she's been dead from one of like, when she died, I thought she died of smoking because no one told me how she died and she smoked.

[388] And this was the 90s.

[389] And so everyone was like, smoking's bad.

[390] And I was like, she must have died of smoking because I didn't understand.

[391] And then in seventh grade, I have a best friend.

[392] too, Dax.

[393] And her name's Amanda.

[394] And I always call her my best friend Amanda.

[395] And my best friend Amanda told me how she really died in seventh grade because there's this day where you had to write out these tombstones for people you knew to have died of smoking, like on cardboard.

[396] Oh my goodness.

[397] Oh my gosh.

[398] Oh my goodness.

[399] And everybody wrote, well, Disney, because there was this rumor.

[400] Nobody knew anyone to have died of smoking.

[401] Someone was like, he died of like lung cancer, so it must have been smoking.

[402] And I wrote my mom's name.

[403] And they printed that particular photograph in the yearbook.

[404] So I know I did this and didn't make it up.

[405] Yeah.

[406] She's in the yearbook.

[407] But my best friend told me that day, she was like, everybody knows this thing and you don't know.

[408] Oh, wow.

[409] She did it out of love, of course, and I'm glad I knew.

[410] Did you find that you were embarrassed?

[411] I was a little embarrassed, but I was mostly just mad at my mom because I didn't know why anyone would do that.

[412] And I also never told my dad that I knew because I've always been really protective of him.

[413] And I thought if he didn't tell me, there was a reason why he didn't tell me and we're okay despite this.

[414] So then I stopped visiting my mom's grave, which is like my only way to be like teen angst.

[415] I'm not talking to you anymore.

[416] Yeah.

[417] Oh my God.

[418] It's so fascinating.

[419] Yeah, that you continue to have a relationship as if she's alive in so many ways.

[420] Yeah.

[421] Yeah.

[422] It's like, when you stop visiting her, that's as bad as stop talking to your mom.

[423] Yeah.

[424] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[425] We've all been there.

[426] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[427] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[428] But for an unlucky few, these unsusperable.

[429] Expecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[430] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[431] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[432] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[433] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[434] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[435] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[436] What's up, guys?

[437] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[438] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[439] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[440] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[441] And I don't mean just friends.

[442] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[443] The list goes on.

[444] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[445] this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[446] So then when I got towards closer to the Olympics, I still had this, I wasn't as like teen angsty about her and upset, but I definitely did not think we were friends.

[447] Uh -huh.

[448] And I still wanted to prove to myself and maybe a little bit to her, I guess it's mostly to yourself, that you've turned out okay.

[449] Uh -huh.

[450] And the Olympics felt like it would be that.

[451] Really, can I ask one question before we get to the Olympics?

[452] Anything.

[453] How would you describe your mental state between fifth year at Oregon and then the Olympics?

[454] Did you find that you were just generally pretty content, or were you wrestling with anything then?

[455] Because the drug works for a while, right?

[456] That's what we say in AA.

[457] Like, they work until they stop working.

[458] So I would imagine this is the period where that all works.

[459] Shoveling accomplishments in the hole is working.

[460] Yeah.

[461] I mean, I directed and starred and co -wrote a movie at the same time that I was training for the Olympics.

[462] And so I was firing on all cylinders and was running 120 miles a week and going through the Sundance Lab with this movie.

[463] Like I was like on and engaged and in.

[464] And the truth is that my post -Olympic depression was called the situational depression.

[465] And that's like where you're okay, you're okay.

[466] And then you really, really crash.

[467] So I wasn't in any kind of depression.

[468] I just think I was headed towards a very big one because of the way I was managing myself.

[469] The limits of a body physically seem to be well acknowledged and known, but no one ever tells you, because I've had those moments, too, where I'm like juggling 55 things.

[470] And it feels awesome.

[471] I fucking love it.

[472] Like if I'm dialed in all 16 hours, I'm awake, I love it.

[473] But I don't really consider like, oh, well, I couldn't run 30 miles a day.

[474] I know my body wouldn't allow that.

[475] And maybe it's worth evaluating whether you mentally can handle that much stimuli.

[476] stimuli.

[477] Well, how do you feel about those times when you're like really dialed in and firing on all cylinders now?

[478] It feels good.

[479] It feels good.

[480] I feel good too.

[481] Yeah, yeah.

[482] I love it.

[483] I just feel like I have to police when it's tipping into filling up all the buckets.

[484] There is place in my head and in my life to fill up accomplishment buckets.

[485] I don't want to get rid of those.

[486] But it's like when I start leaning on those, I did it when I relapse.

[487] I was.

[488] I was like, I'm relapsing, but everything in my life's going good.

[489] Like, here are all the things I would evaluate my life, and they're all doing well.

[490] So this isn't the problem I feared it was.

[491] I think that's what I have to watch myself for.

[492] Yeah, we're, like, bubbling pots of water.

[493] And, like, we thrive when they're, like, jolly bubbling, but not, like, completely...

[494] A full roar.

[495] Yeah, exactly.

[496] The incessant obsession with accomplishments and, work.

[497] And like you said you were training for the Olympics and making a movie is a mania.

[498] It is manic.

[499] Like I have experienced it too where I get in these modes and I'm like, oh, I've gone into a little bit of a manic zone.

[500] And it is in a lot of ways.

[501] Euphoric.

[502] Yeah.

[503] It gives you a pleasure that's in retrospect not great because it's a high that's untenable.

[504] Yeah, exactly.

[505] That will lead to a crash at some point.

[506] it just is the balance of life.

[507] Yeah.

[508] And I think that if we dream chasers, like let's just say the Olympics is one type of dream, but if any dream chaser or goal chaser was aware that there was like a chapter after the dream is either accomplished or realized that you're meant to feel or meant to recover, then this whole thing could be very avoidable.

[509] And the truth is that nobody, for the Olympics, for example, nobody talked to.

[510] about the moment after with you because then you might not get there in the first place.

[511] And so I don't even know that the mania or the lead up is such an unhealthy or unusual or even avoidable thing so much as I wish that I had somehow been prepared to embrace the moment after.

[512] And I know we haven't even talked about the moment itself.

[513] But that is just what I'll say is that like there was no preparation for that.

[514] Well, I guess that's kind of.

[515] of the thing I wanted to say at some point in this, which is I think it could sound often like I'm saying, don't bother trying to become an actor because blah, blah, blah.

[516] That's not what I'm saying.

[517] Or don't become an Olympian.

[518] No one should try to do anything.

[519] No, I'm saying definitely try to do all that, but be realistic about what it's going to accomplish.

[520] It's not going to give you an emotional state you desire.

[521] That's really the only thing I'm saying is just like, do that, become the biggest director in the world, but also know you will look in the mirror and feel the exact same way you did before you were the biggest director in the world.

[522] Yes, exactly.

[523] And I do think that the post -Olympic depression can get a bad name.

[524] And people, they talk about the Olympics being the problem.

[525] But it's really just like, I should have been prepared as like a 12 -year -old to slowly begin to manage what that would have been like.

[526] So I agree with you.

[527] The goals are not the problem.

[528] The dreams are not the problem.

[529] And they are not the thing that should be getting the bad name.

[530] It's just the approach.

[531] It's almost the love addiction.

[532] Like when you learn about about love addiction and how people ride that high, I think our dreams can be a form of love addiction because we fill in what our lives will be like and we paint this fantasy, which is just a fantasy.

[533] And I think for love addicts, another human's going to give them that.

[534] And for maybe dream chasers, it's the dream's going to give them that.

[535] And it's really just the real erroneous thought is just that anything's going to give you that.

[536] Yeah.

[537] And we eventually learn that like the best thing to chase is like trying your best rather than being the best.

[538] And that's what now I have like more satisfaction about.

[539] Well, you go to Rio.

[540] You compete for our country for the mother homeland.

[541] You'll have to adjust that.

[542] I compete for Greece.

[543] Oh.

[544] Oh my goodness.

[545] Okay.

[546] So that's okay.

[547] I'm glad that came up.

[548] I'm dual citizen.

[549] I'm Greek, American.

[550] So I mean, European American.

[551] And that's by birth on my dad's side.

[552] And while I am one of the fastest 10k runners in the U .S., I made the choice to compete for Greece for a number of reasons.

[553] But going to the Olympics and going to the Olympics as a Greek is so, so fun because it's where it all began.

[554] Yeah, you all invented it.

[555] You enter opening ceremonies first.

[556] Like when I go over there and train, which I've done for these stints like girls look at me and they ask like why do I look the way I look and they're talking about like guns guns and my muscles and it's been a different experience but I loved it and I broke the national record there so like the Olympics is that role model you've looked up to your whole life right and you build them up and you hope that they're going to be whatever you hope that they'll be if you ever get to meet them and for some people it's not like my Olympic coach his Olympic experience was not everything he wanted he was like injured the truth is that the United States team had them stay out of the village and for me that was one of the reasons why I competed for Greece is like I was staying in the village for a month we were training with all the other athletes I had the real oh wow summer camp amazing summer camp just like I would go to the dining hall alone and the dining hall is this like it's the size of uh I one and a half football field and it's open 24 hours a day and people are in their uniforms because you have to wear your uniform all the time and it's like being in a Wes Anderson movie and it's the best people watching in the world and it's also the most exclusive place in terms of emotion where athletes are decompressed in a way that they're not when you see them on these interviews before their competition yeah were you already with your husband yes I was engaged I know, but Olympic dreams, the movie we made with Nick Kroll that we brought to South by and we shot at the Winter Olympics was inspired by my experience getting asked out by a doctor at the Olympics.

[557] So it happens.

[558] Not Bolt.

[559] He didn't ask you out.

[560] A doctor asked you out.

[561] No, but Bolt was, I remember he was like, he would be on his balcony with all of his medals blasting, like, music.

[562] Yes.

[563] It was great.

[564] But you also saw people like Phelps in the dining hall put up just like not looking the happiest.

[565] Like maybe he was focused, but also maybe what we see on the outside is not how everybody feels on the inside.

[566] And that's when I realized that the Olympics is like a process.

[567] It's not just an event.

[568] And we see it on TV and we think it's this event.

[569] And for the athletes, though, we're so evolved.

[570] physically, but mentally, we're like delayed at best.

[571] Yeah.

[572] You've been missing out on virtually every other thing.

[573] Well, and the Phelps thing is now well documented by his own documentary.

[574] Like, yeah, he was not happy.

[575] Right.

[576] You don't even have to speculate.

[577] Yeah, he was struggling.

[578] But that wasn't super public then.

[579] But I think if you were in the village and you saw that scene, you might understand.

[580] it more now.

[581] Yeah.

[582] Was he eating like 600 pancakes as advertised?

[583] Absolutely.

[584] He's not alive.

[585] Oh my God.

[586] I would love to witness him eat breakfast one time.

[587] I know.

[588] I would love to have breakfast with him.

[589] I would do.

[590] We'd feel so tiny because we'd only have like five pancakes.

[591] Yeah, if.

[592] If.

[593] If.

[594] You both would probably really love like just the experience of being in a dining hall because then you get to see what everybody's rituals are.

[595] You're like And to guess, like, what sport are they?

[596] What sport are they?

[597] I think of myself as an expert in this.

[598] I feel like I can look at the shape and go, that's a sprinter.

[599] That's a volleyball player.

[600] That's a long distance runner.

[601] The swimmers, they have the most upside down triangle bot.

[602] Yes.

[603] But then what about a sailor?

[604] Like, so there was a 60 -year -old sailor.

[605] Oh, my.

[606] I can't believe you just said that.

[607] This is the biggest ding -ding of our life.

[608] We watch the college admission scandal Netflix thing.

[609] One of the guys that got in trouble was a Stanford sailing coach.

[610] And she goes, they have sailing at Stanford.

[611] And I go, yeah, I think it's in the Olympics.

[612] She goes, it can't be in the Olympics.

[613] And then we had this whole debate yesterday.

[614] Like, what our conclusion was is I was like, I don't know that it is.

[615] But if it was, I wouldn't be shocked.

[616] And Monica would be shocked.

[617] And then you just said this.

[618] I can't believe you just said that.

[619] So I've met both the youngest Olympian and the oldest Olympians at my games.

[620] And the oldest Olympian was a sailor.

[621] And I had a meal with him.

[622] And he was like, I think he was.

[623] I want to say Italian, but I don't want to say the wrong country.

[624] So he was saying how wisdom is so important with sailing, because the more years you accumulate of knowing waves and knowing wind, the better you are.

[625] And so it's almost the opposite of a gymnastics in terms of the age.

[626] I mean, of course, there are younger sailors, but he was, by all rights in the Olympic Village, had earned his spot.

[627] Wow.

[628] What was he in his 50s, 40s?

[629] No, I think he was like 60, but I'm afraid you're, going to, like, Google it and be like he was 38, but he was not 38.

[630] I'm not afraid of anything.

[631] I'm now starting to consider that I may still end up an Olympian.

[632] Oh, you definitely can.

[633] You would be so bad at sailing.

[634] Why?

[635] Because it's so boring.

[636] You just wouldn't want to do all the tedious tasks.

[637] No, I want an engine.

[638] I want a gas pedal and a steering wheel and an engine.

[639] What is sailing?

[640] Is it a one -man boat?

[641] One -woman boat?

[642] You're asking me all the wrong questions that I know none of the answers to.

[643] We'll address it to the fact check.

[644] I'll find out all about.

[645] What have come to find out the guy you met really just, he had sailed the team to the Olympics?

[646] Like he was the Italian team sailor, and he took everyone to Rio on a multi -mass ship.

[647] Or if he was just like a coach that was just completely lying, because there are a few coaches that get to be in the village.

[648] Not every coach, but a few get to be in there.

[649] What decides that?

[650] You know, I think that every country gets head coaches for certain sports.

[651] Like, my coach was not in the village, but every country also gets six passes a day for people to visit.

[652] And that's where also being from Greece was really helpful because if you're from the U .S., Phelps is going to get those passes or the vice president of the United States.

[653] And there's only six a day.

[654] And so I got to bring my dad into the village.

[655] And I cannot tell you, like, you know, my dad's like a Giants baseball season ticket holder.

[656] He's like the biggest sports fan of all time.

[657] And he just kind of reminds me of Kermit the Frog and like his eyes have never been so big.

[658] So that was the best.

[659] Kermit's my favorite person to compare people to.

[660] I love all people I think look like Kermit the Frog.

[661] He looks like a cross -bitching Kermit and Bill Gates.

[662] Oh, wow.

[663] Wow.

[664] Do you speak Greek?

[665] I speak enough Greek to have teammates to be there.

[666] So I actually got stuck in Greece for five months at the beginning of the pandemic really unexpectedly because of the pandemic.

[667] And that's where I learned the most Greek that I've learned.

[668] I was living in a college town and was supposed to race.

[669] And then the Olympics got pushed and everything got shut down and stayed there for five months.

[670] And so I needed to learn how to like fix my lap.

[671] top when it broke and like do all that.

[672] Right.

[673] Right.

[674] Okay.

[675] So your experience sounds like it was really, really great.

[676] Yes.

[677] It was everything.

[678] Did you have any depression about like not getting a gold medal or anything like that?

[679] For me, no, because I ran faster than I'd ever run.

[680] I broke a national record.

[681] I was also in a race that broke the world record and 80 % of the race broke national records.

[682] So it was like the fastest 10 -K that's ever happened in the history of the world.

[683] You were what, like 31 -36 or something?

[684] That's exactly it.

[685] That is unreal, Monica.

[686] 6 .2 miles.

[687] In 31 minutes.

[688] Every mile is a 5 -minute mile.

[689] Wow.

[690] For fucking 6 .2 miles.

[691] Wow.

[692] That's amazing.

[693] Girl.

[694] I really can't wrap my head around now.

[695] You must not be a hypochondriac because I would definitely be like my heart is.

[696] giving out?

[697] Or do you like the feeling of that?

[698] Well, first of all, if you have a really good coach, you feel like you could go to the edge.

[699] And this is the other thing that when we talk about the mental or physical health, I'm not great at self -regulating.

[700] But if you have a coach who can hold you back when they need to and then know that when they let you go, you'll just try your best.

[701] So I had a coach who piqued me. So athletes are like pencils.

[702] I mean, people are like pencils where you can sharpen yourself and mostly you want to be like a dull strong pencil but every once in a while you want to like really sharpen the pencil and that's the Olympics right you want to be peaked and if they time it right then you're ready to do whatever your mind wants your body to do and it will do whatever you tell it oh boy like somehow that's all funneling into like there's something what there's something erotic about that why Like you're at peak.

[703] You're in total control.

[704] Maybe it was the word peak.

[705] Yeah.

[706] It sounds like peak you.

[707] That's why so many like children are conceived at the Olympics.

[708] Like that is because people are at their peak.

[709] Right?

[710] They're at their peak.

[711] Emotionally, physically, there's highs, there's lows.

[712] Like there's no more wild extreme place than that.

[713] Dopamine is a waterfall at that point for everyone.

[714] Yeah.

[715] There are kids conceived at the Olympics.

[716] I didn't even think about that.

[717] Of course.

[718] Because people time their children around these Olympic cycles, too.

[719] Like, if you want to do more than one cycle, some people will, like, have a child right after.

[720] So this makes me. Yes, they'll be ready to return.

[721] Yeah.

[722] Okay.

[723] So you return home.

[724] When does it start?

[725] When does that crash hit?

[726] So my understanding of situational depression is that it kind of begins as, like, an adrenal fatigue.

[727] Like, it's a nervous system challenge at first.

[728] And for me, the moment after is probably the moment when someone should have sat me down and told me that, like, regardless of how I feel, I need to slow down and not make decisions about my future.

[729] Like, slow down, meaning take a body rest, but also take a mental rest for, like, a month or two.

[730] And the truth is that, I wish someone had done that, but the truth was that people were like, celebrate, like, go of fun.

[731] And it was kind of to me. And so I kind of took a physical break, but I also didn't take a long enough physical break.

[732] But the more important thing was that my mind knew for the last four years and probably for the previous 26 years of my life that I had a goal.

[733] And I never thought past the Olympics about what the goal was.

[734] And as soon as it was over, I wanted to know what the next thing was.

[735] And I wanted to know yesterday.

[736] And I wanted to make sure that I was doing it.

[737] So the truth is that It didn't start as the sad feelings or anything like that.

[738] It started as almost speeding up a car, like being like, let's keep going on this momentum.

[739] And it just went so well.

[740] And then I made a series of changes in my life that I think I should have paused.

[741] So my coach, in so many words, was no longer going to be coaching.

[742] He didn't want to keep coaching because he was an Olympian himself, and it's a very challenging lifestyle.

[743] So he suggested that I move to the place where people train at altitude at Mammoth Lakes, which is where I had done camps.

[744] But he was like, why don't you move there and become a marathoner?

[745] So I switched events, tried to move up to the marathon, switched coaches, switched where I lived, moved to altitude, which is known to actually have challenging effects on your mental health a little bit.

[746] Like it can be hard.

[747] And then I was in sponsor negotiations, which Olympians often go through sponsor negotiations.

[748] after an Olympic cycle, and it sucks.

[749] It's just really stressful.

[750] And so I did all of these things at once, and I stopped sleeping.

[751] And so that was the first real bad symptom for me was that I was sleeping like an hour and night when I normally slept nine or ten easily.

[752] And I started training again.

[753] I was running 120 miles in a week with one hour of sleep, which is like obviously stupid.

[754] Like, I will admit this was not smart, but I thought that I needed to put things together for myself in this new life.

[755] Well, again, this is where we go back to what I said way, way earlier, is that you have the predictable pattern in your life is you push past the discomfort and then you receive a reward.

[756] Yes, exactly.

[757] Yeah, your muscle memory is like, yeah, this sucks as it should.

[758] Something great's going to happen.

[759] Exactly.

[760] I'm a really good coach's athlete.

[761] Or if I'm on set, like I'm good at being a part of these teams.

[762] But if it's me coaching me or me directing me, I don't think it works as well.

[763] And so because no one, and I'm not blaming anyone else, it's just there was no dialogue around this.

[764] And also at the same time, the world is asking you what's next.

[765] That's all you get asked after a big peak.

[766] And even when I released the book Braveie, that was a kind of Olympics, and I got asked a lot, like, what's next?

[767] And I get that.

[768] I can't blame the media for having that question so ingrained in them, but I wanted to answer what's next because I knew I would be asked.

[769] I'm always asked.

[770] And the way the world saw me was someone who just ran a national record, like, did this amazing thing.

[771] And so I felt insanely at odds with the way I felt and the way the world saw me. So I began to like panic a little bit because I knew that I was feeling more and more out of control.

[772] And then the world was seeing me as this like example of control.

[773] Yeah.

[774] And so I stopped sleeping, but I kept pursuing trying to figure out all this new event, new sponsor, and I got injured.

[775] And this was the first injury of my life.

[776] Then I felt even more out of control.

[777] What was the injury?

[778] It was a hamstring tear.

[779] and that most definitely was due to training.

[780] That's an overuse thing because I wasn't sleeping and running.

[781] Yeah, you weren't ever repairing.

[782] Yeah, it makes total sense.

[783] And then it wasn't until my dad, like, heard me on the phone and he could hear some of the red flags that he and my brother made me get help.

[784] And they made me get help by scheduling appointments for me that I didn't want to have.

[785] and I had to go back to Eugene Oregon because Mammoth didn't even have mental health in person who was all telemedicine.

[786] And I know during a pandemic, it's a lot of telemedicine, but at that time and in my condition, I needed to be in person with someone.

[787] And so I sat down with this doctor finally.

[788] And he was, well, first I met this other woman who, you're supposed to try to meet more than one mental health doctor, I think.

[789] I don't know if you had that.

[790] Yeah.

[791] Yes.

[792] That is advised.

[793] So the first woman I saw, I was really honest with her.

[794] Like, I'm never lying about symptoms, but she sent me down and she was like, okay, you are like about to kill yourself and we need to put you on like a ton of drugs and then you need to find a psychologist because I'm a psychiatrist to deal with you.

[795] And I left feeling like really helpless because I don't know.

[796] I was like, okay, I'm going to be sedated.

[797] And then I have to find the other help and at that time it was really hard to find mental health support and then it was like this bizarre situation with coaches where they're like okay take care of yourself but like no one took it on like what it was like like go deal with your period basically like yeah go do that thing I don't really want to hear about it but you should do it yes like oh okay yeah just come back when you're ready but like never treating it like what it was which was an injury if it was an injury, which is what my doctor that I did work with eventually told me, it would have been a completely different game, just like you said, Dex, earlier.

[798] So this guy, Dr. Arpea, he wore like gas station t -shirts, you know, the kind with like a big hawk on it.

[799] Yeah.

[800] Yeah.

[801] Just like very kind type.

[802] And he very simply told me you have an injury to your brain.

[803] And it is like when you're rollerblading and you fall down, you have a scratch on your brain.

[804] And your brain.

[805] And your brain can get injured, just like any other body part and it can heal, just like any other body part.

[806] It just takes time.

[807] And suddenly, I completely shifted because suddenly the whole narrative that I was fed about my mom, which was this nebulous, like, if you feel these things, you might have to die and go.

[808] And mind you, like, her brother took his own life.

[809] Her mom was also kind of had some issues.

[810] So it wasn't like she was an anomaly.

[811] It was like, this stuff runs deep.

[812] So when I was told that, I was suddenly like, oh, like I know how to deal with my body.

[813] And I refocused my goal and he became my coach.

[814] Uh -huh.

[815] And how long would you say, I don't know what metric we'd assign, but let's say at the Olympics you were at 10 and then on an hour of sleep, you'd probably gone down to a 1.

[816] How long working with him before you felt like you were a five or a six?

[817] I would say, and he prepared me for this slow progress because he told me that actions change first, then thoughts, then feelings, in that order only.

[818] And much like when you have a broken leg, you're going to be in pain every day, and it doesn't mean you're not healing.

[819] It just, this is normal.

[820] Pay attention to your actions, whatever that is, sleep, bone, whatever you do for your broken bones.

[821] And so it took me, I think I started seeing him in April, March, April, and I think I started feeling differently in July.

[822] So it took a few months, pretty, like, I think relatively quick, but those few months I approached drastically different than the three months that I didn't get help prior to meeting him.

[823] Yeah.

[824] I love his paradigm.

[825] We say that on here a lot, that you can act your way in.

[826] into thinking differently, but you cannot think your way into acting differently.

[827] Yeah.

[828] That's the same.

[829] Same thing.

[830] It feels counterintuitive almost.

[831] But it's like, yeah, if you take these actions and have some patience, you might be surprised with how you feel and how you think.

[832] Can you tell us?

[833] And you don't have to.

[834] You can tell us right now if you don't want to.

[835] I'll tell you anything.

[836] What were some of the red flags that your dad and brother picked up on that you weren't weren't picking up on.

[837] Yes.

[838] So the sleep, but also just the comments about, I thought I knew my future.

[839] So I said my life, I have peaked and I had my chance at life because I think I always grew up feeling like I was going to get certain chances, but I wasn't going to get two of the same chance, whatever that meant.

[840] It was arbitrary.

[841] And if I messed up any one of those, like just like we talk about the rungs on the ladder, that I would fall.

[842] and that I was lucky, but I wasn't that lucky.

[843] And so I told them that my future was like never going to be better than what I had.

[844] And I think anytime we think we know our future, it's like a red flag that we're not well.

[845] Yeah.

[846] Because we don't.

[847] Well, that's a great one.

[848] Yeah.

[849] I like that.

[850] When we think we know our future.

[851] Like when we've decided it's going to be a certain way, we're not well because that's impossible.

[852] Yeah.

[853] And also when we want to go back in time.

[854] So I was trying to recreate the circumstances that I had prior to the Olympics.

[855] So I tried to, like, get back with my old coach, even though he didn't want to coach anymore.

[856] I tried to move into the house that I left in Eugene.

[857] Like, I tried to recreate my life before because I thought that I had messed everything up and that I needed to go back.

[858] You were to basics.

[859] You were trying to control, yeah.

[860] Yeah.

[861] And so those were things that they heard that didn't feel healthy.

[862] Good for them.

[863] Yeah, it's like the things that got you here may no longer serve you.

[864] And I think that a lot of Olympians or high -achieving people or people with trauma have a certain point in their life where they realize, or they don't, they're driven by it their whole life.

[865] But we realize that the things that got us here maybe were useful and potent, but they no longer serve us.

[866] Totally agree.

[867] And in fact, they will limit us.

[868] Yeah.

[869] And that's the real threat is when you're like, oh, wow, this is actually like doing the opposite.

[870] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[871] Yeah, my case, it was like, oh, the thing that got you into the party is also going to get you kicked out of the party.

[872] Like, I'm too much.

[873] I'm very provocative and I'm wild.

[874] And I'm the, and like, it got me there.

[875] I was interesting for a minute.

[876] But then I was like, oh, but this is also going to get me kicked out.

[877] yeah yeah like it's so funny i have like the twee examples of things you had because i'm like yes and i used to collect notebooks and backpacks thinking that those were the things that i would need to get to like my own writer's room and in fact if i had so many backpacks and notebooks i would live in a house of clutter and i wouldn't get to the writer's room because i'm living in a house full of stuff you're buried yeah yeah and that's something that i actually did and And my dad was a hoarder.

[878] So that was his response to everything.

[879] But that was a whole other story.

[880] He collected newspapers.

[881] Oh, wow.

[882] Yeah.

[883] That's pretty, that's like when you are going to do a cartoon.

[884] Yes.

[885] Like if you're going to do a cartoon character of a hoarder, you're going to fucking put so many newspapers in that.

[886] Yeah.

[887] Well, but aren't there also some useful things you get?

[888] Like, okay, the one I think really useful tool from this whole thing was feeling unashamedly like I could reach out for, I call it in Bravey, like my mentor buffet of like, okay, I don't get this one keystone mentor in a mother that some people have.

[889] And maybe for some people it's very challenging and not positive, but either way I don't have it.

[890] But I get to have everybody else.

[891] And that was my feeling of special.

[892] And I was really shameless about seeking out mentorship in a way that was reach.

[893] for it rather than just waiting for it.

[894] And I think that's a muscle that I'm not sorry that I have and that I have tried to not let wear off.

[895] So maybe there are some positives.

[896] Oh, I couldn't agree more.

[897] And that is very hard for me because I have to admit I don't know everything and that this person has something they know that I don't, that I want.

[898] So it's like it's very hard for me to be vulnerable in that way.

[899] But like you said, there is some gift.

[900] I didn't have the dad I wanted.

[901] But I found one.

[902] Tom Hansen, this guy, I just worship and I take all my cues from in life and I got to pick one.

[903] You don't get to pick one normally.

[904] Because you could also go about the world saying this thing got taken away from me, whether it's your dad, my mom or whatever anyone else has had happened to them and think and the world is going to keep taking things from me. And sure enough, it will because you will see it that way.

[905] And I think we can see it the opposite way.

[906] Yeah.

[907] Back to what you were saying.

[908] But there are positive things.

[909] All the negative traits have a positive head.

[910] to its tail.

[911] And I think you just have to recognize the strength and try to maximize that while acknowledging that there's a negative side to it.

[912] And I also just think in general, it's a good reminder to not get so married to your narrative and be flexible and be able to say, like, that served me at one point and no longer does.

[913] I can let it go.

[914] Or when we did Monica and Jess, we had Esther Perel on and she, like, she said the best thing that I think about all the time, that there's a goblin living on your shoulder, and it helped you.

[915] It was there to protect you, but you don't need it anymore.

[916] And you can tell it, thank you so much for helping me and for serving me. And you can go on now to somebody else.

[917] I'm good.

[918] But you have to be sort of aware that, like, that's no longer my narrative.

[919] Because we're all like, this is me, this is my identity, this is this, we get stuck.

[920] And I think it's important to be like, no, we're evolving.

[921] Yes, we're all like, actually these people.

[922] Pokemon.

[923] Like, we level up and then we don't go back.

[924] I don't know that game well, but I don't think they, they don't devolve, right?

[925] You just told me everything I know about it now has been what that sentence you just said is now the most I've ever known about it.

[926] We're not experts on Pokemon either.

[927] But then, and visualizing yourself leveling up and being like, I am no longer that person that I was, I am now the evolved one.

[928] And maybe what we get to do is have those pauses every now And then where we're like, now I'm leveling up whenever those moments come in relationships, too.

[929] Did you find when you wrote Bravee, did it have this neat effect?

[930] I've had this experience where I don't actually understand something and then I write about it.

[931] And then in writing about it, I start to understand it, which is bizarre because I'm the author of it.

[932] But did you have that experience where you kind of maybe understood the whole experience even more profoundly after putting it down on paper?

[933] Yeah.

[934] Yeah.

[935] So when I wrote the proposal, I mentioned nothing about my own depression at all because I was going through it when I wrote the proposal and I was too embarrassed about depression when I was in it.

[936] I wrote the proposal when I was like sick and didn't understand things.

[937] And writing the book proposal was like one grasping at straws to get a hold of my future, to be honest.

[938] Well, you said you had a bunch of big ideas that were happening in the wake of all that.

[939] I'm going to do this and do that and do this.

[940] A million things.

[941] I do think writing helps because it's one thing to.

[942] have an experience.

[943] And it's another thing to be able to describe it in a way that translates to people.

[944] And a memoir is not a diary.

[945] Like, it's not meant for yourself.

[946] You know that there are people that are going to read it.

[947] And I think that's a different type of writing.

[948] And it's finding the right words that people will, like, be able to visualize.

[949] And I think one of the biggest things I learned was, I think it was two things.

[950] One, the thing you talked about about your identity not being what you do, because when I first started training for the Olympics and trying to make movies, I really separated those narratives for myself because I wanted to be taken seriously as a world -class runner and as a great award -winning actor and filmmaker separately because I knew that I didn't want an excuse, like she's an okay runner who can act.

[951] She makes decent movies, but she can run.

[952] And that was in my own head.

[953] But at this point, I think the book was all of the things in one.

[954] And I wanted to be able to communicate in a way that made it okay for myself, that I was all the things that I am.

[955] And I actually remember a conversation with Rachel Dratch, who is like a mentor and acted in one of our movies.

[956] And I had a conversation with her where I was like, wait a minute, if I put this book out that talks a lot about depression, and am I going to preclude myself from a future in, like, comedy or in acting?

[957] Because this is such a intensely mental health -driven narrative.

[958] You didn't want your identity and your public identity to be depression.

[959] Yeah, and it was described, like, my identity in the book is, like, someone described it as, like, I'm a kind knife.

[960] And I'm like, that sounds a little different than, like, what I might want to be doing in my future.

[961] And she was like, first of all, comedians are some of the saddest people on Earth.

[962] And second of all, it's all leading you where you're going.

[963] And advice from people that I admire helps me a lot.

[964] So if someone says it and it's my Olympic coach or it's Rachel Dratch or it's Richard Linklater, that means something different than if my dad said it as much as I love my dad.

[965] Yeah.

[966] I don't know how you feel about it.

[967] Like it matters who it comes from and you can't control that it means something different coming from different people.

[968] I would say there was a long period where it did, and I would say mostly no. For me now, I think even the people I admire can advise you how to do what they did.

[969] Yeah.

[970] And I don't think you're trying to do something anyone else did, and I don't ultimately think I'm trying to do something anyone else did.

[971] The simplest thing I'll remember, you know, like I ran into Adam Sandler, and he's like, hey, buddy, you got pretty ripped for that movie.

[972] And I go, oh, yeah, thanks.

[973] And he goes, yeah, you know, comedians shouldn't be in shape.

[974] And he's right.

[975] But as it turns out, I wasn't supposed to become Will Ferrell.

[976] I just kept doing what I do.

[977] I like working out.

[978] All right, well, I'd rather just do what I do and then figure out where that fits than, like, listen to that advice and be something I'm not.

[979] Okay, that is really, really helpful advice for me because my world is transitioning.

[980] Like, I'm still, I'm an athlete, but we're more and more in the arts and, like, in the performing space.

[981] And I think before the book came out, I thought that I would need to, like, have a sharp line of transition.

[982] And I thought that I would need to somehow shed completely, eventually, this pretty unshedable title of an Olympian that, like, you can't shed that and you don't want to.

[983] Yeah.

[984] And I think what I'm learning is that hopefully, and I think meeting you and talking to you about this and hearing that is tremendously, it's like an intangible gift of permission to have confidence.

[985] in taking it all with you.

[986] Yeah, because, again, I just want to reiterate, it was great advice.

[987] It is probably objectively true.

[988] But if I had changed who I am, per that advice, I just wouldn't have ended up doing whatever the fuck it is I'm now doing.

[989] But I'm happy to be doing whatever this thing is I'm now doing.

[990] Yeah, that's great to hear.

[991] I like you.

[992] Me too.

[993] I'm really glad we got to talk to you.

[994] Bravey, chasing dreams, befriending pain, and other big ideas.

[995] is out now.

[996] I think everyone should buy it and read it.

[997] I think what's always interesting is your story, which on the surface would seem completely unrelatable, is like, what, we're sitting here right now, and I feel like I've gone through very, very similar things as you, and I know Monica quite well, and I know she's gone through very similar things as you, and it's interesting.

[998] Yeah.

[999] The more specific you get weirdly, the more universal it is, which makes no sense, but is the truth.

[1000] Right.

[1001] The headline's completely ununiversal.

[1002] you're an Olympian.

[1003] Okay, well.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] And then, yeah, as I learn more and more, more, more, more, it just gets down to, like, the granular thing that's very human.

[1006] Yeah, that means so much to me. And I think Maya Rudolph wrote the foreword for the book.

[1007] I think she captured just that, that, like, we expect these people to be a certain thing.

[1008] And they are and they aren't.

[1009] I am and I'm not.

[1010] There's got to be a take on them.

[1011] I am what I am from Popeye, which is I am what I'm not.

[1012] I don't know.

[1013] I'll work on it.

[1014] I'll workshop it and I'll try to get it into a digestible saying.

[1015] Alexi, so great meeting you and a ton of luck with the book and everything else you're doing.

[1016] Thank you.

[1017] Yeah, I'm very excited and super grateful to meet you and good luck healing your arm.

[1018] It'll be great.

[1019] And Monica, thank you as well.

[1020] Thank you.

[1021] All right.

[1022] Talk to you later.

[1023] Talk soon.

[1024] Bye.

[1025] Hello.

[1026] From Great Heights come Great Falls.

[1027] I just made up that slogan.

[1028] That was great.

[1029] Thank you.

[1030] I think you also made up a slogan during our episode.

[1031] I did.

[1032] According to Laura's facts.

[1033] Oh.

[1034] Uh -oh.

[1035] Because she said, did you guys workshop that phrase, quote, I am what I am not?

[1036] So I think maybe that came up.

[1037] And then we said we need to workshop that.

[1038] Like to figure out what it means?

[1039] Yeah, to come up with maybe a more succinct.

[1040] I love that.

[1041] I am what I am not.

[1042] It doesn't make any sense.

[1043] No. Does it?

[1044] It does.

[1045] Okay.

[1046] How?

[1047] Because you could either, like, let's put up this way, in physics, right, if you want to know the volume of an object, you can put it in water and see how much it displaces.

[1048] Sure.

[1049] Right.

[1050] So in that way, you can learn, if you know everything, something is not, you can kind of know what it is.

[1051] Okay.

[1052] So you can be defined by what you're.

[1053] you're not, not what you are.

[1054] Although that's not what you, you don't like that.

[1055] Well, I don't like defining yourself on things you hate.

[1056] That's my big pet peeve.

[1057] But I'm not under 6 -2.

[1058] I'm not brown.

[1059] Mm -hmm.

[1060] I'm not, not dyslexic.

[1061] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, why, why, why, why.

[1062] You know, you can put together.

[1063] You are also what you're not.

[1064] That's true.

[1065] I do think it's counterproductive to what we.

[1066] Yeah, we say define yourself by the actions you.

[1067] Yeah, and the things you're connected to and that you're connected to others by.

[1068] Yeah, I agree.

[1069] Wow.

[1070] Well, we did it.

[1071] I think those are two different things, though.

[1072] Like, one is a description of a human.

[1073] The other is your identity.

[1074] You know, I'm always, I'm, I'm sensitive to this when people, anytime I'm talking to somebody and they say more than once, I'm the kind of person that blank.

[1075] something about that phrase I don't trust.

[1076] You know what I'm saying?

[1077] Do you hear it in others at all?

[1078] I hear, yeah.

[1079] Like, look, I'm the kind of person that never talk shit.

[1080] You're thrown by that phrase, but it's not that you don't make those statements or that I don't.

[1081] Look it, I'm almost guilty of everything I dislike.

[1082] I'm never saying that I don't do these things.

[1083] I'm saying like there's things that I don't like in myself and I notice them in other people.

[1084] Well, when I point that out, I'm just pointing it out to say, maybe it shouldn't bother you so much because clearly we all do it.

[1085] And so if you're doing it, what is it about it that's bothering?

[1086] Well, what bothers me is that if you have to declare who you are, odds are you're not just doing that thing and people would observe it.

[1087] Like, you don't need to declare who you are.

[1088] People know who you are through your actions and through your character.

[1089] So I'm always a little suspicious when people are always declaring who they are out loud.

[1090] It makes me think, well, no, that's who you want to be.

[1091] if you were that person, you wouldn't need to declare it all the time.

[1092] Obama doesn't say, like, I'm the type of person who takes education really serious.

[1093] Well, unless he's talking about it to somebody who doesn't know him and speaking on that topic, then maybe he would say that.

[1094] Like, education's really important to me. I'm talking to, like, an interpersonal conversation with two people, and the other person keeps declaring what they are.

[1095] Yeah.

[1096] It's a little bit of a red flag for me. Okay.

[1097] Just in your real life, you know, maybe when it happens, just notice it.

[1098] Okay.

[1099] See what you think about it.

[1100] Because maybe you're just not even noticing it.

[1101] And maybe if you notice it, you'll feel the way I do.

[1102] Or maybe you won't.

[1103] I think I'd rather not be turned on to something that is going to make me not like a person.

[1104] Yeah.

[1105] It's not even complete to say that it makes me not like them.

[1106] It's just this thing that I've, it's kind of.

[1107] It's a pet peeve.

[1108] No, you know what it is?

[1109] It's like when Bradley said, when someone's talking shit about another person to me, it's telling me more about that person than the person they're talking.

[1110] talking shit about.

[1111] And that's just a really astute observation.

[1112] So when it's happening, that now rattles in my head.

[1113] Like, oh, yeah, this is one of these times where it's like, I'm actually learning more about you than I am this person.

[1114] That makes sense.

[1115] But I think for me, what it tells is you're a person who's attached to your narrative and your identity.

[1116] When you're someone who says, well, I'm a person who does this or I'm this or I'm like when you're really rigid in that is when you start presenting it to others, I think that's what it tells me. You're really attached to this part of you.

[1117] That's true.

[1118] I will say it's only a mild step away from someone referring to themselves in the third person, which you would agree dislike.

[1119] Well, I've never really experienced that.

[1120] Well, let's just...

[1121] Oh, no. You should have looked at the light.

[1122] I should have.

[1123] Everyone should look at the light when they have to sneeze.

[1124] It makes a sneeze come out.

[1125] But the conundrum I was in is that to look at the light, I would have sneezed directly into the microphone.

[1126] I was trying to get my mouth farthest away from the microphone, but not blow your ears out.

[1127] Okay, so let's just roll play this because you'll be able to tell really quick whether you like this or not, okay?

[1128] Dax never sneezes directly into the mic.

[1129] Dax always turns his head.

[1130] Okay.

[1131] Because Dax is polite.

[1132] That is, it's gross.

[1133] No one does that.

[1134] Yes, people talking the third person.

[1135] Who?

[1136] Do you really, really know someone who's done that for real?

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] It happens.

[1139] Okay.

[1140] I mean, I think that's generally someone who thinks of themselves a little too important.

[1141] Sure.

[1142] I mean, that is not normal.

[1143] It's not normal.

[1144] There's even a Seinfeld episode about it.

[1145] People do it.

[1146] No, it's like funny.

[1147] It's like this funny thing in the zeit guys, but have I ever really heard someone do it?

[1148] No. Oh, okay.

[1149] I have a bunch of times.

[1150] But anyways, it feels like a cousin or adjacent to that to say like I'm the type of person.

[1151] sure feels a little bit like Dax doesn't play I don't know Again I'm not in none of these cases Am I saying I don't do these things Well I do a lot of things though That after I do I'm like oh that was gross I hope you don't talk about yourself In the third person I don't Okay Dex never does that Stop Monica doesn't like that Dex is always first person Anywho, why'd we get on this topic?

[1152] Well, either regardless...

[1153] Oh, I am what I'm not.

[1154] Oh, yeah.

[1155] Okay, well, we solved that.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] It might not be the most efficient way, but it can be done, is all I'm saying.

[1158] I got to update everyone on my pet pee.

[1159] Oh.

[1160] Have I already talked about it on here?

[1161] About walking on the sidewalk.

[1162] I don't think I have.

[1163] Tell me. Oh, wow.

[1164] This is my...

[1165] ego.

[1166] Okay, now this is layered.

[1167] This has now gotten really layered.

[1168] Okay, so I've always had this pet peeve and I've been realizing it, it's resurfaced lately, which is when you are running on the sidewalk and people do not move.

[1169] They don't accommodate.

[1170] I'm running on the edge.

[1171] On the edge of the sidewalk, I'm taking up a very tiny amount of space.

[1172] And I'm I'm running.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] I'm doing the hard thing.

[1175] Sure.

[1176] And people are walking towards me in like a group or like two people.

[1177] And they're taking up the entire width of the sidewalk.

[1178] And they're not adjusting.

[1179] And it makes me so irrationally irritated.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] And also let's add dogs into the mix.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] I mean, no one wants to move their dog.

[1184] Sure.

[1185] And, you know.

[1186] Well, because they're a rescue.

[1187] Who rescue.

[1188] who?

[1189] Dax rescued.

[1190] Dax.

[1191] So I hate that.

[1192] And it makes me really irritated.

[1193] And one time years ago, I was behind someone and they were, they had their headphones in.

[1194] They were walking their dog.

[1195] I was running behind them.

[1196] And I was like for a while behind them to have them look at me and move their dog.

[1197] And she didn't notice me. So I ran around.

[1198] I ran on the grass.

[1199] around and the dog jumped up and bit me on the side of my stomach broke skin went through the shirt did you get a rabies shot after that no you might be rabid maybe that's your fiery side yeah me either so she took her headphones out and was like oh I'm I'm so sorry baxter's a rescue and he's gets scared easy because he's been a lot of trauma I was not happy watch out for people who are walking by you.

[1200] Anyway, so this is a huge, huge pet peeve of mine.

[1201] Now the layer is, I thought I had already talked about this on the podcast.

[1202] And since I've been running and I've noticed some people moving.

[1203] Oh, and you got it in your head that they have heard.

[1204] A few of them I thought.

[1205] First of all, they knew you.

[1206] And then secondly, they've heard.

[1207] I didn't think for sure, but I wonder.

[1208] It's a possibility.

[1209] I wonder if that person...

[1210] Well, that reminds me of the great...

[1211] Well, no, I don't want to hijack this.

[1212] But it just reminds me of the Howard Stern thing where he, like, loved this instructor on Peloton.

[1213] He only takes her classes, but one thing he hates is that she would tell these stories about trips she went on or something of this order.

[1214] And he would talk about her all the time on the show because he's always on the Peloton.

[1215] Oh, it's a great workout.

[1216] Man, did she go on about the thing, right?

[1217] Yeah, you got to be careful.

[1218] He signed on, and she stopped doing it.

[1219] And then he realized like, oh, fuck.

[1220] Like, I don't think.

[1221] Of course it got back to her.

[1222] Yep.

[1223] And of course she's flattered.

[1224] Howard takes her class.

[1225] And then she changed her personality.

[1226] And then he felt terrible.

[1227] And then he wanted her to go back, even though he hates it.

[1228] And I just thought, this is the funniest.

[1229] It's almost like a sitcom episode.

[1230] How could this happen?

[1231] Oh, no. So what I like about your pet peeve is that it does reinforce my thought that, like, nothing is innately annoying.

[1232] It's really just whatever your thing is personally.

[1233] So I used to run on Los Felis Boulevard all the time.

[1234] And I actually prefer to run the grass because it's easier on my knees.

[1235] So like I see people come in and I like get over super early to let them know like don't even sweat it.

[1236] I'm going to go on the grass.

[1237] Why wouldn't you just always run on the grass than if you preferred it?

[1238] Well, because quite often there's driveways and sometimes it's sometimes it's worth it to commit to this strip of grass.

[1239] but if the strip of grass is only like, you know, 100 feet long, I won't do that because then I think it's worse switching back and forth from concrete to grass.

[1240] But if I can do like a good quarter mile on the grass, I'll do it.

[1241] Okay.

[1242] But anyway, I don't mind going on the grass at all.

[1243] And I am thinking like, oh, I'm coming really fast and they're kind of going slow.

[1244] What?

[1245] No. If you're going fast, you're the one working hard.

[1246] It's very easy for them to step to the, and no one's saying get off the sidewalk.

[1247] I'm not saying.

[1248] Well, I could see where they're like the sidewalk.

[1249] sidewalk is for walking it's not for running these weren't built so people could run this isn't a track so i'm doing the thing this was designed to do which is walk slowly and if you were coming at me slowly i'd have all this time to to get over on the side to let you by but because you're sprinting down the thing now i'm now in this position where i've got to react really quick no you don't i'm not like a lightning bolt you can see me you can see me from far away and all it takes is literally one tiny step to the side.

[1250] If you're walking in the very middle of the sidewalk, you're doing it wrong.

[1251] Walk on the right side of the sidewalk.

[1252] And the other person will walk on the right side of the sidewalk or run or whatever.

[1253] And that is how you accommodate everyone.

[1254] And if you're walking in a group and you see someone, you have to adjust.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] It annoys you and it doesn't annoy me. I would say that there's a very good chance that most people do move out of the way for you because you're a big guy.

[1257] People don't move out of the way.

[1258] I move out.

[1259] I always preemptively, I don't ever try to run by people walking on the sidewalk.

[1260] Forget running.

[1261] Walking.

[1262] When you're walking down the sidewalk, people are probably noticing you.

[1263] They're crossing the street.

[1264] And they're crossing the street.

[1265] And then I have to whistle Vivaldi.

[1266] Or.

[1267] I'm serious.

[1268] I know you are.

[1269] But I'm having fun.

[1270] Well, You want me to get mad with you?

[1271] I mean, I want you to take this seriously.

[1272] I do take the series.

[1273] I do take I recognize that this makes you very upset.

[1274] I'm not telling you not to be.

[1275] I'm pointing out that like, so within your pet peeve, there is one that we're similar on is I can't stand.

[1276] I feel like this is more of an L .A. thing than like a Michigan thing is that people in a group are out to lunch.

[1277] Like if they're in a group, they're completely blind to the rest of the world.

[1278] That's a part of this.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] So like they're talking to each other and they don't even consider that other people.

[1282] So that's one of my pet peeves.

[1283] But the not moving out of the way for me when I'm running is not a pet peeve of mine.

[1284] Let me pose this to you as just the defense of those people.

[1285] So if you're walking, it's kind of like driving in the right lane versus the left lane.

[1286] So if you're walking, you're going to be passed by eightfold the amount of runners as you're going to be passed by people walking.

[1287] Because I often also walk down Los Felis Barbar.

[1288] Yeah, me too.

[1289] I also walk on this circle.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] When I'm walking, I get passed by like five runners.

[1292] for every one pedestrian walking down the sidewalk.

[1293] So they might think like there's so many of them.

[1294] They're moving so fast.

[1295] And they all seem to move.

[1296] I move out of the way and all the other runners.

[1297] I see tend to take to the grass really quick.

[1298] So you kind of get in this habit of they're going to come by a ton, but they're going to move to the side.

[1299] If someone's walking at me, that happens less.

[1300] I'll accommodate and get over.

[1301] But if you see someone on the same sidewalk as you, running towards you on their side of the sidewalk and you are not on your side of the sidewalk, why wouldn't you move over to your side of the sidewalk?

[1302] Well, because you, two reasons.

[1303] One, all the runners seem to just run around on the grass.

[1304] Why do, they shouldn't have to?

[1305] Whether they should have to or not have to, in practice, most runners just run on the grass.

[1306] That's what, when I'm walking on the sidewalk, runners are always just, before they get to me, they go out on the grass.

[1307] When I run, I go out on the grass way before I get to people.

[1308] That's just how I do it.

[1309] I'm not saying one's right or wrong.

[1310] But if, so if you're, the pattern you've just been exposed to eight times in a row is that runners go out on the grass and then you come along, you might be the anomaly for them.

[1311] They might be thinking, oh, you're going to go out on the grass.

[1312] I don't need to move.

[1313] All these runners go out on the grass.

[1314] I don't, I mean, it could be that simple.

[1315] It could not be that they think they're more important than you.

[1316] I don't know.

[1317] I just, that's not how anyone operates in the car.

[1318] That's not how anyone operates.

[1319] You, you make room for the other people.

[1320] You should.

[1321] I do.

[1322] If I'm walking and I see someone coming, I make sure I'm not in the very middle of the sidewalk.

[1323] And if I'm standing next to a friend walking and someone's coming, I get behind my friend.

[1324] Me too.

[1325] Yeah, that's how people should operate.

[1326] Mm -hmm.

[1327] There might, though, be a fun.

[1328] Because I'm in a A, that would be something that I would work through this.

[1329] Are you the type of person that?

[1330] No, no. What do I want to say?

[1331] Mode?

[1332] I would work it through this system.

[1333] Like I would go, oh, I'm getting really upset by this thing.

[1334] Now I want to run it through the system to figure out what fear of mine's being triggered.

[1335] Instead of just like hanging your laurels on their wrong and I'm right, it might be, interesting to run that through the diagram of why it affects you.

[1336] Yeah, I don't like feeling like people aren't taking me into consideration.

[1337] That's obviously what it is.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] That is happening and that's my issue and people should take other people into consideration.

[1340] Yeah.

[1341] So both things are happening where I think one thing is societally we should be paying attention to each other.

[1342] Mm -hmm.

[1343] And I don't like not being addressed or seen as equal.

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] So that we're done with the grievance section.

[1346] Alexi.

[1347] Alexi.

[1348] Very, very fun episode.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] I really doug her.

[1351] When do most female runners athletes get their periods if they're training really hard?

[1352] I couldn't really find that.

[1353] A lot of, I mean, obviously there was a lot of info on runners.

[1354] missing their period that's common it's not very good to miss your period yeah okay no it's not good when your body is decidedly not having a period because it's um doesn't have the resources to get pregnant it's called athletic amenorrhea 60 % of women athletes have amenorrhea athletic amenorea oh my god amenorea it's really hard to say amenorrhea disturbed menstruation due to the demands of the high intensity training on the body do you know how we I told you back when we lived in Detroit, if we ate a certain food that gave us diarrhea, we would incorporate the name of the food into the diarrhea.

[1355] So, like, I had tyreia.

[1356] I had...

[1357] Because of tacos?

[1358] Thai food.

[1359] Like, Oriental's Thai food.

[1360] We got diarrhea.

[1361] This could be diarrhea induced from M &Ms.

[1362] Amaria.

[1363] Amenaria.

[1364] Eminemaria.

[1365] Oh, boy.

[1366] Okay, so this has to do with estrogen, testosterone, progesterone.

[1367] They're unable to ovulate and often suffer from certain vitamin deficiencies, lower than average intake of antioxidants and lower body mass index.

[1368] Okay, so it's not good for you to, to, your body's working too hard in the other direction to make a period.

[1369] Make yourself a little period.

[1370] I'm surprised, I'm surprised you're having your period.

[1371] Because I'm working, so over.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] I'm not, I'm not running like Olympic levels yet.

[1374] Yet.

[1375] You will.

[1376] What country was the oldest Olympian sailor from?

[1377] And how old was he?

[1378] Oh, this will be good.

[1379] A hundred.

[1380] Do you want to guess?

[1381] Fifty -one.

[1382] Fifty -four.

[1383] Good guess.

[1384] He won his first Olympic gold medal as the oldest sailor competing in Rio during the NACRA -17 mixed catamaran class on Tuesday, Tuesday a long time ago, at the sailing regatta.

[1385] Ooh.

[1386] He's born in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

[1387] And he started sailing when he was six years old.

[1388] Oh, my gosh.

[1389] Buenos Aires.

[1390] It is funny.

[1391] You take anything even as like what is I think supposed to be a very peaceful pursuit, sailing, harnessing the wind and gliding along.

[1392] Even making that competitive.

[1393] I know.

[1394] Like competitive, it sounds like competitive napping.

[1395] Oh, my God.

[1396] I could totally want a competitive nap.

[1397] You couldn't beat Aaron.

[1398] We're like, it's like a gunshot goes off and you have to be technically asleep.

[1399] How would they know if you were fully asleep?

[1400] There'd be a machine that was hooked to you and it would know.

[1401] Could you take any sleep medication?

[1402] No, no, no. You can't dope.

[1403] You can't dope in the Olympics.

[1404] But everyone's doing it.

[1405] Then you can.

[1406] Okay.

[1407] That's all.

[1408] I'm pro -doping.

[1409] You know that.

[1410] I want to see how far we can go.

[1411] I love you.

[1412] Love you.

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