Ben Stiller

[0] Welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[3] Hi, Lily Padman, comma, monica.

[4] Yes, slash hyphenated comma monica.

[5] Comma monica.

[6] That sounds like a word.

[7] Comma monopoeia.

[8] Onomatopoeia, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, comma, we come Monica and go, we come on and go.

[9] Yep, that's it.

[10] be easy if you come on Monica oh that sounded gross yeah that got dirty quick yeah come on come on oh boy sorry ben stiller keep that in today we got a no -nameer and up and comer you never heard of him ben stiller ben stiller what a find what a get for us i don't know that there were any two people more obsessed with severance i mean he couldn't have come to a better place a more hospitable place.

[11] What a show.

[12] Fuck, what a show.

[13] I mean, I almost wonder if you're listening to this and you haven't watched Severance, should you pause and watch eight hours of severance, then resume.

[14] If you got that kind of time in your schedule, then we recommend it.

[15] But if not, of course, you know, there's many reasons of love Bent Stiller, not just Severance, but of course, Tropic Thunder.

[16] Meet the Parents, Night at the Museum, Zoolander.

[17] The Ben Stiller shows where I fell in low with them.

[18] Something about Mary.

[19] Come on, guys.

[20] They're all right there.

[21] My favorite, as you'll find out.

[22] my top three comedies of all time flirting with disaster.

[23] Oh, yeah, and you showed me that movie.

[24] Yes, and it's in your top something.

[25] Love it.

[26] Yeah, but Severance was nominated for 14 Emmys, just outstanding.

[27] And Ben was just wonderful, sincere, calm, patient, intellectual.

[28] Great energy.

[29] And I thought initially his rugged blue color assistant, which is to come.

[30] I did think he was his own assistant.

[31] Please enjoy Ben Stiller.

[32] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

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[34] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[35] He's an armchair expert.

[36] Hi.

[37] Oh, there we go.

[38] There we go.

[39] There it is.

[40] We did it.

[41] How's it going?

[42] We thought you were just moving your mouth and tricking us.

[43] Well, this is the danger of interviewing.

[44] a comedian, you just don't know you're the business end of a bit.

[45] That's right.

[46] That could have gone on forever.

[47] Who was the great guy that was on taxi?

[48] We all know him, Locke.

[49] Oh, Andy Kaufman.

[50] You can imagine in this era that Andy Coffton would do that.

[51] He would do an entire interview over Zoom and he would act like his mic wasn't on and he'd be fine with that.

[52] He'd be happy knowing that he did that and there's nothing to show for it.

[53] It'd be funny.

[54] Imagine what he would do with Zoom.

[55] Okay, so this is sincere.

[56] I was walking by and I could see you, but our camera wasn't on yet.

[57] And I just walked by quickly to make a coffee.

[58] First, I thought, well, there's no way he's having to deal with setting up this microphone situation.

[59] But then I thought, although he's at his vacation house, he probably doesn't have an assistant.

[60] But then I thought, no, that's not him.

[61] And then I thought, his assistant's so rugged.

[62] It looks like he just came off a John to your tractor.

[63] All these things happen in nanoseconds.

[64] I got so curious that you would hire an assistant who looks like a groundsman at a golf club.

[65] And I was just thrilled.

[66] I want assistants who look like an idealized version of myself.

[67] There's no assistant person here.

[68] That was me setting up my own microphone or attempting to.

[69] And by God, thank God you stuck with it.

[70] I have to imagine, like me, you're just so sick of all the tech part of the job now, right?

[71] I get stress in my stomach of I hope it all goes right.

[72] And I don't allot the time ahead of time to really make sure because I assume it's like, okay, I remember this from the last time.

[73] I can do this.

[74] But if one little thing goes wrong, there would be 20 minutes of this.

[75] Oh, it's happened.

[76] We one time had to drive to another location because our internet wasn't.

[77] Do you know Eric Lander who he is?

[78] He's the head of the Broad Institute at MIT.

[79] He mapped the genome and then co -founded CRISPR.

[80] He's the smartest man on the planet.

[81] I had the audacity to ask him, do you think it's your internet or ours?

[82] And he said, well, I'm sitting at MIT where we invented the internet.

[83] I'm pretty sure my connection's good.

[84] We're like, okay, we'll drive to another location then.

[85] I didn't invent the internet, that's for sure.

[86] I've done a few of these recently where I did them in New York and the internet connection.

[87] I thought was good, and then I saw them play back, and I was like this the whole time.

[88] And I was like, oh, God, that just makes me seem like I'm animated or something.

[89] And no matter how good your internet is, it's still a variable.

[90] Sometimes, even with very good internet, who knows?

[91] It's a little bit stressful, but I'm glad this worked out.

[92] I'm really glad it worked out.

[93] I got to prime you a little bit.

[94] First of all, yes, it was last minute, so I really thank you for doing it.

[95] We've been wanting you so bad.

[96] Since I started watching Severance, I got abnormally obsessed with Severance.

[97] I don't know if Adam forwarded you the messages I send him.

[98] Did that happen today?

[99] No. Okay, you might have to listen to a few.

[100] So, Kristen and I are lucky enough to be friends with Adam and Naomi.

[101] And as we became obsessed with the show, and there was a cliffhanger and we were unhappy with that.

[102] We would just berate him with voice memos on his phone.

[103] They all started with you, piece of shit.

[104] The worst cliffhanger of all, there is a moment where someone's holding two switches.

[105] Let's just say that.

[106] There was a heightened moment, very.

[107] Oh, my God.

[108] And when we didn't have any resolution to that, and we knew we were going to have to wait a week, we immediately got on our phone.

[109] We started braiding Adam Scott.

[110] And the message I think you'd like the most was, listen to me, you piece of shit.

[111] You'll be happy to know that my wife, in frustration, just ran out of our plate glass window on the second story of our home, fell to the ground, and was rushed away in an ambulance.

[112] And I bet you're curious how she's doing.

[113] I'll tell you next week, you fucking piece of shit.

[114] That's a good one.

[115] I remember thinking on the eighth episode, we have nine episodes.

[116] Obviously, the ninth episode has a version of a cliffhanger.

[117] But the eighth episode has a cliffhanger.

[118] And I remember seeing people react to that.

[119] And all I was thinking in my head was like, oh, God, next week.

[120] Just wait.

[121] They don't like this.

[122] Season ending one is really going to piss people off.

[123] Yeah.

[124] You think you're angry now.

[125] Just wait.

[126] You know, it's all previously.

[127] baked in.

[128] You make the show months and months earlier.

[129] Decisions are made years earlier.

[130] So it's kind of hard to anticipate how people are going to even react or care that much.

[131] And there's nothing you can do about it.

[132] You've had every experience you can have in show business.

[133] I can't imagine what you're buckling up for is I bet this is the thing that'll be absolutely ubiquitous and get 14 Emmys.

[134] So you're not in any time preparing for that outcome or that everyone will be mad at you about the cliffhanger.

[135] Like you probably are not arrogant enough to have done that.

[136] No. Yeah.

[137] I mean, the process of making this show, especially, everybody making stuff during the pandemic has just been so weird and hard.

[138] There were times when we were making the show, because it went on for so long, the process, and it was in this sort of vacuum that for so long, I was like, if we finish it, that will be the triumph.

[139] I hope people like it.

[140] I hope people watch it.

[141] But honestly, I don't even remember time.

[142] I wasn't working on this.

[143] It was one of those feelings where you lose perspective.

[144] Yeah.

[145] In an already murky two years of the pandemic.

[146] Yeah, there were periods of time when I was so grateful to have something to be focusing on and to be working on.

[147] And then there were other times when I was like, why are we even doing this right now?

[148] Right.

[149] Yeah, I remember talking to Bill Hader early on and he was saying, like, I'm going to just wait.

[150] I'm just going to write for a while because, gosh, I don't even want to take the chance of working because, God forbid, something would happen to somebody who are working.

[151] I'm like thinking, oh, we're three weeks away from shooting.

[152] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[153] It's going to be blood on my hands.

[154] You go through every feeling.

[155] It's like, well, I know this is good.

[156] people are working and want to have a purpose.

[157] But then it's also every day.

[158] It's this crazy, unforeseeable situation, at least to people who never think about these things.

[159] I don't know if you had that feeling like, God, I've been living my life in a really naive way.

[160] I'd never even thought about the idea of a pandemic coming.

[161] I've assumed that that's not possible anymore.

[162] I almost was in total denial of it the whole time it was happening.

[163] Like, well, no, this wasn't in my calculus of what could happen.

[164] So I think I'm going to deny it's happening.

[165] Yeah.

[166] The first few months were definitely that feeling of, God, we're just.

[167] just in this thing.

[168] And this is really happening.

[169] This is really affecting everything.

[170] Okay.

[171] I guess we're going to have to deal with this for a little while.

[172] Early estimations being like three million Americans, you're like, am I going to witness something like this in history?

[173] I don't think I'm important enough to be around for something like this.

[174] Yeah.

[175] And then when it keeps on going, there's that feeling of, oh, this is real life.

[176] This is our lives now.

[177] Then you start going like, oh, wow, my kids, okay, my kids, when this started were five and seven.

[178] So at the end of it, a third of the five -year -old's life was this.

[179] What the hell is that due to somebody?

[180] I don't No. No, I know.

[181] Nobody knows.

[182] My son, his entire high school experience has been during the pandemic.

[183] Right.

[184] Okay.

[185] The primer for this is you're in a small handful of people that make me nervous.

[186] I very much idolize you.

[187] I can remember the few times I've seen you in real life.

[188] The anxiety level was high.

[189] Like, oh, God, damn, this is your shot at telling this guy how much you love him.

[190] Let's do it in the way that's palatable.

[191] I never sense that ever.

[192] Well, and I think that's one of the reasons I like you.

[193] I think you're probably the least.

[194] least informed about who you are.

[195] That's great.

[196] That's humility.

[197] We have great skin, by the way, too.

[198] Is that Zoom?

[199] Well, no, he's a very healthy guy.

[200] He eats healthy.

[201] I'm okay if I get sun.

[202] Once I get out of the sun, I start to have issues.

[203] I, too, go up and down three or four standard deviations based on if I'm tan or not.

[204] For me, it's also, as you get older, I get more in touch with my Jewishness.

[205] And this is where Jews are attracted to the sun.

[206] I understand why the migration happens to Florida.

[207] Yeah, this is your Palm Beach.

[208] Okay, so I just need you to know that I was a teenager when you did the Ben Stiller show.

[209] So I think as a punk rock teenager who also was into comedy, but had that punk rock spirit, Ben Stiller for me was the punk rock version of Saturday Night.

[210] It was like, oh, that's where I would end up or that's the thing I would make.

[211] I think I know those sketches inside and out more than any other sketch show ever.

[212] I loved kids in the hall, too, that had that vibe as well.

[213] And then over the years, you've ended up in a few of my all -time favorites.

[214] I have a three -way tie for Best Comedy Ever Made, and in the three -way tie is flirting with disaster.

[215] I'm so happy to be a part of that movie.

[216] David O. Russell, his mind and his tone and the cast that he put together.

[217] And it's a time in my life when I was kind of going through some relationship stuff.

[218] And so I just was happy to be there and focus on being in that movie because of other stuff that was going on in my life, honestly.

[219] And I appreciated it at the time.

[220] I definitely appreciate it much more now when I see that movie because everybody is so good in that movie.

[221] And I think that's David's genius of how he creates an atmosphere.

[222] I don't know if you've talked to him ever.

[223] Have you interviewed him?

[224] I spent some time on set of Silver Linings.

[225] Which is an amazing movie.

[226] It's impossibly good.

[227] And I was watching it through the eyes of an actor imagining being on the set.

[228] And I couldn't do it because all of my insecurities wouldn't pair well with how he.

[229] directed, which is there isn't a bad performance in a single David O. Russell movie.

[230] You just can't argue against that whatever his thing is, it works in insane ways.

[231] People that aren't great actors are phenomenal.

[232] But the yelling and the interrupting, I would be thinking the whole time, oh shit, I'm not doing it right, which is why he's now interjecting this thing.

[233] And I remember asking Bradley, I don't know De Niro, but I was fascinated to watch De Niro couldn't get three steps in any direction without O. Russell screaming something.

[234] I thought, how's he handling this?

[235] This is fascinating.

[236] I'm enamored with the dude, and I also know it's not my temperament.

[237] I would be so insecure in that environment.

[238] Yeah, I mean, what I admire about him is just that he knew from a very young age or when he started making films, really, that he wanted to approach it in a certain way to create a certain energy or reality on film, that he wanted to figure out how to get to and disrupt probably what the normal process is.

[239] And I think that really great filmmakers understand that there are rules.

[240] and then you're allowed to totally break them.

[241] And I think that was something that he understood early on.

[242] It's kind of like everybody is there understanding what you're going into when you do that and understanding that that's part of his process.

[243] And it's ultimately good for creating something that is unexpected.

[244] And actors reacting to that are going to have their own different conflicting feelings.

[245] And when I watch one of his movies, I see so clearly his personality, who he is as a person in the movie, in the energy of the movie.

[246] And I always feel that from him more than any other filmmaker.

[247] I think you were in an almost identical parallel situation to Nicholas Cage and the other movie that's in my top three, Raising Arizona.

[248] You know, they famously didn't get along.

[249] His explanation was, everyone after me had the benefit of that movie.

[250] And I had only seen Blood Simple.

[251] So I probably would have acted much differently around them if I had had that movie.

[252] And similarly, you just had what, spanking the monkey.

[253] And so in the same way, it had to be a little chaotic.

[254] You had to be thinking, like, does this work?

[255] And now everyone post you has the freedom of like, oh, well, the results of this process is extraordinary.

[256] Yeah, and I think also I did have enough of an appreciation.

[257] I knew this script was really good.

[258] I didn't think he didn't know what he was doing, but I did sometimes think, like, what is going on here?

[259] You know?

[260] Right, right.

[261] How will we know when this scene's over?

[262] Yeah.

[263] But I remember just thinking, oh, I'm getting to do scenes with Lily Tomlin and Alan Alda.

[264] And this is amazing to be able to just be in a scene.

[265] scene with people who I idolize.

[266] Well, for me, Richard Jenkins was the thing.

[267] I walked away from that movie going, like, who is this guy?

[268] And Josh Brolin, so funny.

[269] The armpit, the depth of the pocket, constantly telling Kristen about the depth of her pocket.

[270] What a gross observation.

[271] Okay, that one I had to say, and then the other one I had to say is zero effect.

[272] Oh, wow.

[273] I bet I've watched that movie, maybe third only to thief by Michael Mann.

[274] I just love Zero Effect.

[275] Really?

[276] that's amazing.

[277] I love it.

[278] And then the notion when I got older and understood some things and thinking that Kazden was like, what, 22 or three years old and had written and directed that movie, blows my mind.

[279] Yeah, that's one I have not watched for a really, really long time, but enjoyed it immensely when I was making it and thought the same thing that Jake was so young, but yet had this whole thing in his head.

[280] And I remember him telling me that he had written the first 10 pages one night that just kind of came out of him, this monologue that he wrote and then it became the movie.

[281] I mean, I loved being in that world of his and in a weird way.

[282] That kind of role, I guess, was like the type of role that for a while I kind of then went away from as an actor.

[283] So it was really fun to do that.

[284] And also to be with Bill Pullman too.

[285] And it's just such an odd, interesting tone to the humor in that movie.

[286] Well, okay, great.

[287] So we're actually circling the thing that makes me horniest in movies, which is when someone can execute a tone consistently, it would seem.

[288] easier than it actually is because you arrive on a set and everyone's a stranger virtually, unless you're lucky enough that you're now working with everyone you already know.

[289] But in general, it's new people.

[290] You're in a new location.

[291] Everyone's just kind of jelling.

[292] And then somehow whatever's captured on that day one, unless you're allowed to go reshoot everything, you now have to kind of match that.

[293] Or if you're a good director, you'll somehow keep on the days that everyone's tired, it'll be the same.

[294] On the days you got rained out, it'll be the same.

[295] You know, to keep that thread going, I think is the thing we love most about directors is tone.

[296] Yeah.

[297] And it's hard to even define how you get to that.

[298] I think it obviously starts with the writing and then sort of a mutual understanding amongst everybody of what you're going for.

[299] But then it kind of becomes just the process of doing it and feeling it out as you're doing it.

[300] I mean, definitely with severance, that was a big question throughout the process of making it was what is the tone.

[301] There's a lot of brilliant things about severance, but I have to say if I was prioritizing the most significant, it is the tone.

[302] And again, what a challenge not just for a two -hour movie, but to cement into a tone for nine hours over the course of a year in a pandemic when people's moods are fucking all over the place.

[303] I think one of the best things about it is it's patience.

[304] There's no rush to get to the first big thing.

[305] And I love that.

[306] It made it so worth every single payoff.

[307] I mean, we just have not been able to stop talking about the show since it came out.

[308] We love it so much.

[309] That's great to hear.

[310] I'm almost sad for you.

[311] You can't be a viewer of it.

[312] Truly.

[313] I'm not getting.

[314] You're the only person that probably has not seen Severance.

[315] I've seen it so many times.

[316] I know you have.

[317] I know you have.

[318] Gosh, you know, the idea of taking your time with something, honestly, over the course of all the movies that I've done over the years that were mainly comedies, every filmmaker has to make their own choices and immediately I'm thinking of Judd Apatah or something, you know, like, cool, like, okay, I'm going to make a comedy, but I'm going to make it as long as I want it to be and I'm going to listen to the audience, but I'm also going to listen to what I think.

[319] And that's the personal choice that a filmmaker makes.

[320] And I think over the years when I was making a lot of comedies, I was very attuned to the audience and probably sometimes too attuned to it when I look back on certain films, though it was like where I was at at the time as a director and actor.

[321] And you have to make those choices for yourself.

[322] And I think for the first, time when I did Escape at Dannemora a few years ago, we made the first episode and didn't have to test it.

[323] And the testing process is something that I really, really spent a lot of time with over the years.

[324] And I think it took for me to do a project where I was literally freed from having to test it at all.

[325] Maybe it was in my mind like, okay, this is a freedom or something that I had to say, you know, I'm going to just take my time with this because I don't have to worry about somebody saying, oh, this is going to slow or, you know, when is the first laugh going to happen?

[326] it's not funny enough or all that.

[327] It's kind of obvious, but just doing that for the first time really was freeing for me. Well, I don't know that it's obvious.

[328] I don't think for people who have not directed a comedy and then gone with the studio to the fucking recruited audience and sat there.

[329] I don't think people would recognize how mathematical the forces that be making.

[330] You know, if you got an 86, who cares?

[331] A 90 must be in sight if you could get rid of X, Y, and Z. and we're going to ask these now people who we've appointed as experts to tell us how and why.

[332] And there's really no way out of that machine.

[333] It's a very unique experience.

[334] Yeah.

[335] And it's up to you as the filmmaker to decide how much you want to care or listen.

[336] I mean, and it's a negotiation with a studio too.

[337] Minimally, it's a negotiation.

[338] Because you might go, oh, right, I actually would prefer the version that tests at 86 to the one that tests at 92.

[339] I can concede that for this recruited audience, it works better.

[340] but I'd be happier.

[341] My soul would be happier if we didn't put that ending on it to get this, whatever.

[342] It's a really unique process.

[343] Yeah.

[344] And so that's what I think about, and now that I've been doing these non, quote -unquote, comedies, though, obviously I think Severance has a lot of comedy in it.

[345] But next time that I go back in and do a comedy, it'll be a different approach to having had the experience of these last two projects.

[346] Would it be fair for me to guess that you were making movies that you might not have personally gone and seen?

[347] To certain extent, some of them.

[348] And by the way, I like all your movies.

[349] I'm not being critical.

[350] I'm just saying most comedians watch drama.

[351] No one watches comedy.

[352] I've always loved drama.

[353] I don't watch enough comedy.

[354] I do appreciate comedy.

[355] It's funny.

[356] Like last night, I was just sitting around the new Nathan Fielder show.

[357] Oh, my God.

[358] I was like, oh, man, I've got to turn this on because I really want to see something funny.

[359] I had that feeling for the first time.

[360] I was like, I want to watch something funny.

[361] And I know how much comedy means to people and the movies made to people.

[362] there was always a way into the movie.

[363] Night at the Museum, for example, I love that idea because I grew up on the Upper West Side near the Natural History Museum.

[364] And that concept of like, whoa, if everything came to life at night, I'd never thought, oh, I really want to do a quote unquote kids movie.

[365] But there was something about that concept that I loved and felt very connected to.

[366] So each one was different.

[367] But I think, yes, generally, I've always loved drama.

[368] And the idea of being able to direct that has been kind of in my head since I was a kid.

[369] Yeah, yeah.

[370] You were making, like, horror -type movies on Super 8.

[371] I was just making whatever on Super 8 with my sister, and a lot of it was murder.

[372] Upper West Side in the 70s, like Death Wish with Charles Bronson was a movie that was a big movie in early 70s.

[373] There were hooligans and there were gangs, and it was the tough New York Upper West Side thing, which has changed.

[374] My brother and I were obsessed with Warriors, the Wanderers, all these crazy gang movies.

[375] We couldn't watch enough of them.

[376] Yeah, Warriors are a member.

[377] And I was living that life a little bit in that as a kid on the Upper West Side, the neighborhood was kind of like you go down one street and it was a tougher street than the other street.

[378] I lived on 84th Street and my best friend lived on Central Park West in 84th.

[379] I lived on Riverside.

[380] And I would walk around to 86th Street because it was a safer walk because I wouldn't get shaken down or, you know, kids might want to take my watch.

[381] So those were my movies, the sort of revenge fantasies of the kid on the Upper West Side, beating up the kids who mugged him.

[382] Of course.

[383] Do you think because everyone was experiencing it, it was less traumatic?

[384] Or do you think it was deeply traumatic?

[385] What, being harassed?

[386] Yeah, like, have you shit stolen and just knowing you got to walk around some blocks?

[387] It's kind of like I had to leave my violent pocket in Michigan and come here to recognize, like, oh, that was really a violent place.

[388] But when it happened to everyone, you almost are inclined not to even recognize it as anything.

[389] Yeah, it's just the reality I was living in, and I had it a lot better than a lot of kids, obviously.

[390] It was just sort of part of the fabric of being in New York at that time.

[391] Yeah, it hadn't gotten cleaned up yet.

[392] I mean, I remember when I was a kid, I'd go there with my single mother and we'd walk through Times Square.

[393] So we'd be squeezing my mom's hand, like, oh, my God, are you going to really get us through here?

[394] Yeah.

[395] It's what you're saying, though.

[396] It was just what it was.

[397] So it wasn't like it was scary.

[398] It was just sort of like, okay, this is just, I'm going to have a little tension when I go down West End Avenue.

[399] I hope those kids aren't there.

[400] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[401] I did learn today that you and I had a very similar experience, which is you went to the exorcist at age nine.

[402] The movie.

[403] The movie.

[404] Okay, I didn't know if you went to an exorcist or not.

[405] We both were exercised by a priest, his children.

[406] You were exercised at age nine.

[407] Yeah, I went with my sister secretly.

[408] Right, right, right.

[409] Scarface came out in 1983.

[410] I was born in 1975, so I was eight.

[411] My grandpa took me to see Scarface, and, you know, the shower scene with the chainsaw.

[412] Has anything stuck with you as much as that movie?

[413] Because for me, Scarface is like, wow, on planet Earth, people do this?

[414] Yeah, it's very disturbing when you see a movie at a young age like that.

[415] It really, really affects you.

[416] The scene where she comes downstairs and then she just pees in the living room.

[417] Sure.

[418] Probably the most disturbing scene from me. Because it was just so weird and it just felt so wrong.

[419] Unnerving.

[420] Yeah, unnerving.

[421] And then obviously the stuff upstairs, but there was a tone to that movie.

[422] I saw Clockwork Orange when I was young.

[423] That really fucked with my head.

[424] Yeah.

[425] Seeing the social norm.

[426] broken can be really disconcerting when you're young.

[427] It's worldview changing.

[428] This is the world I live in, that that stuff's going on.

[429] This is the actual world we live in.

[430] This is happening, too.

[431] I got a, I guess, plan for this.

[432] Like, in the back of your mind, you're like, I guess I got to have a game plan.

[433] Well, that's kind of crazy how movies do, in a way, prepare you for life or expose you to things that you would never get exposed to.

[434] Now, it's television, social media, and everything.

[435] But back then, it was more movies and television.

[436] But on TV, you know, you weren't seeing as much of a range of disturbing things because it was more censored.

[437] Except we had Channel J in Manhattan.

[438] What's that?

[439] Yeah, what's Channel J?

[440] Channel J was the...

[441] Porn?

[442] Access, yeah.

[443] It was like, you know, you could buy time.

[444] And Channel J had this show called Interludes after midnight, where's this guy who had, like, porn stars on.

[445] And me and all my 12 -year -old friends would just go crazy to get to Channel J and watch.

[446] Burn a hole on the dial.

[447] Yeah.

[448] There's crazy stuff that you shouldn't...

[449] see as a kid so disturbing now but you know of course as a adolescent you're just drawn to that don't we think the jay stands for jerk off no i think it was just uh no because on the cable box on the dial they had oh yeah yeah i think you got lucky that it was jay and you could infer that you're going to jack off i imagine you feel like me though i remember it as a traumatizing movie going experience and also very grateful thinking even creatively i'm not me if i don't get the fuck scared out of me at eight years old in that movie.

[450] So it's weird when you have kids and you're like, I don't know, are they prepped to be creative?

[451] Did they have to walk around the block?

[452] Did they get the shit scared out of him in a movie?

[453] Yeah.

[454] Now I think with the internet, there's probably like the access that they have to stuff.

[455] I have no idea what my kids have seen.

[456] I mean, my kid, now my daughter's 20.

[457] My son's 17, but we're not discussing what they've looked at.

[458] That's between them and the internet.

[459] But it's everything in the world, right?

[460] Yeah, you thought Channel J was scary.

[461] I mean, now they can see anything.

[462] Yeah, it's a different reality.

[463] But I love growing up at that time.

[464] I have good memories of the experiences I had, but they were always like a little bit edgy and sometimes, you know, I don't know, that's just being a teenager, right?

[465] Well, I saw an interview once with Todd Phillips.

[466] I'm sure it varies, director, director.

[467] But he said, you know, for him, comedy has to be dangerous.

[468] It has to be scary.

[469] And I very much feel that way.

[470] That's the comedy I've always generally been really attracted to.

[471] A little bit of scary.

[472] it's great.

[473] Yeah.

[474] And I think also it's just scary anyway that when you go out there and try to be funny, because it could really fail.

[475] And you have to put yourself out there.

[476] What are you going to do?

[477] Go out and do something that is safe.

[478] You have to take chances.

[479] That's what comedy is about.

[480] And you have to commit.

[481] And sometimes it works.

[482] Sometimes it really doesn't work.

[483] Okay.

[484] I have two big broad questions.

[485] They're too big of questions, but I'm going to ask him anyways.

[486] You had definitely an outcast point of view comedically.

[487] I think even in like the first short you're making with Tom.

[488] Tom Cruise, parodying color of money, right, that gets played on Seraint Live.

[489] And so I want to know what your ride has been with this precarious transition you make where you're like, oh, God, okay, I still want to poke fun at the jock in the high school, but I'm also the very most successful comedian.

[490] I am the jock in the high school.

[491] What am I doing?

[492] Did you have that weird crisis of, like, identity?

[493] That too weird of a question.

[494] Do you know what I'm saying?

[495] You know, I think that I always had a conflicted thing about parodying stuff.

[496] I never was like the guy who was like, I'm going to take them down because I always kind of was like, oh, I'm a Tom Cruise fan, you know, or I'm a Martin Scorsese fan, but I'm going to do a take off on Cape Fear or whatever.

[497] Watching SCTV, which was like my favorite show, they were doing that kind of thing.

[498] It was really just doing what they were doing and trying to find my way, finding my own voice with it.

[499] But I guess as I started to do different kinds of comedies, it was weird because sometimes people would know me for doing a certain kind of movie, but then I felt like, well, I came from doing this kind of comedy.

[500] My identity has always kind of been, I don't know if I see myself that way, but I guess I do do that kind of thing too.

[501] And I don't know, man. It's hard for me to actually analyze it myself.

[502] I got to say your identity is the thing I find most fascinating about you, to be honest, because you've done all the different things and you've done them all well.

[503] So I could imagine it would be confusing if I were you going like, well, fucking, what lane do I want to be in?

[504] I've opened up the doors to all these rooms.

[505] Which one am I supposed to walk through and maybe I think this for five months and then a month later I remember how fun being on Tropic Thunder was.

[506] How have you seen straight into my soul, Dex?

[507] You just know me. So like literally you should be my therapist.

[508] Well, believe it or not, even though we're not similar in some ways, I've gotten to open a few doors and I very much have thought of myself in some certain way.

[509] I directed a few movies in a row.

[510] Chips came out.

[511] It did not do well.

[512] There was definitely the, well, that sucks.

[513] I just worked two and a half years and it didn't work.

[514] But the real bummer was, I've had four years in my mind going, I'm a writer -director, and now that identity just changed.

[515] Because of the reception of the movie, or for what reason?

[516] Well, I guess because I thought no one's going to give me money to go make the movie I would want to make again because it didn't do well.

[517] There's a reality that just happened, which probably precludes me from this identity I have writer -director for the next 10 years.

[518] I do understand that.

[519] And I've been through that multiple times when you do different things and you have ideas of what you want to do and sometimes they change like you were just saying that is me you know over the years at times I've loved doing comedy and other times I really just want to direct movies and I don't care about being funny then it's like wait I like acting in movies I haven't acting movie for like five or six years now and it's like do I miss acting or do I miss the idea of acting do I miss video village with funny people craft service and being the guy in front of the camera but I also know as an actor there are a lot of areas that I want to explore too so I constantly have been going through this my whole life, but specifically what you're talking about in terms of dealing with success or failure and then how people define you is something that you have to really look inward, ultimately, because you have no control over that other than, oh, yeah, my movie tanked.

[520] Nobody's really calling me now.

[521] Right, right, right, right.

[522] All these meetings I had schedule that people seem to have gotten sick.

[523] But it happens that way.

[524] And it's kind of like, oh, yeah, this is that thing where, like, your movie tanks, then you're like not hot.

[525] Anytime that's happened with me, it's always been personally a time of having to look inward.

[526] and deal with it and sometimes really painful.

[527] But then ultimately, it's always come back to like, okay, that's what they think, but what do I feel?

[528] Who am I?

[529] What do I want to do?

[530] What's going to make me happy?

[531] And really forces you to look at that.

[532] Yeah, do you have a home base you go to?

[533] So previously, every time I get my ass kicked, I'd go, okay, you're writing again.

[534] I can control.

[535] No one can keep me from writing.

[536] Now I'm writing.

[537] And then weirdly, another door opens up through that.

[538] Do you have your safe place you go to?

[539] It's been different every time.

[540] But to me, the challenge has always been to.

[541] have the faith in my own self, in my talent when that happens and caring about what other people think and having to detach from that.

[542] And maybe like for a day, you feel like, yeah, I just stop.

[543] They didn't like Zoolander 2.

[544] Good.

[545] Well, guess what?

[546] Sionara.

[547] You know what?

[548] You don't have Ben Siller kick around anymore.

[549] And that lasts as long as it lasts.

[550] But then it's kind of like, okay, well, what do I want to do with the rest of my life now?

[551] So where you go, for me, on that movie, opened up space for me to work on Escape at Danamora.

[552] In retrospect, I see that.

[553] In the moment, it's hard.

[554] In that moment, it also is easy to feel like you're the only person that's ever experienced that.

[555] Right.

[556] And of course, that's the opposite of what is true.

[557] To me, the biggest challenge is always the faith in myself, the faith in my own sense of what's worthwhile that I do.

[558] And then it comes back to, well, I'm going to figure that out.

[559] It's not going to make me happy to not do anything creatively.

[560] I want to be in process.

[561] I love being in process and working on something.

[562] And so that's when I'm happiest when I'm working on something.

[563] Building instead of evaluating or then getting to the point where you put it out there in front of people and then either they like it or they don't like it.

[564] It's amazing.

[565] Like with severance, it's so great that so many people love it.

[566] But in that period of time when I was working on it, at the end of the process, it was just like, okay, you know what?

[567] We created this thing.

[568] I've sometimes lost perspective on it, but I know there was a reason why I wanted to do this and I felt incredibly passionate about it when we started.

[569] And I haven't stopped feeling that throughout the process.

[570] And so I value that too throughout the process.

[571] I felt more and more connected to it.

[572] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[573] What's up, guys?

[574] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[575] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[576] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[577] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[578] And I don't mean just friends.

[579] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[580] The list goes on.

[581] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[582] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[583] We've all been there.

[584] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[585] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[586] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[587] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[588] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[589] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[590] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[591] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[592] Is there any post -pult fiction fear right now?

[593] You know, you direct Pulp Fiction and everyone's like, okay, that's the perfect movie, best movie of all time.

[594] What's next?

[595] Oh, fuck, that's a stressful scenario.

[596] Oh, gosh.

[597] I also directed Zoolander, too.

[598] By the way, I felt good about that, too.

[599] You know what I mean?

[600] Yeah.

[601] That's the more disconcerting part of it to me, honestly, that I wrestle with is, okay, what did I not see there?

[602] Yet I'm looking at the process the same way.

[603] So then you can just go down a rabbit hole of like, well, what is it?

[604] Well, why does something work?

[605] Why does something not work?

[606] So I guess maybe after all these years of doing it, I don't have that fear any more than I have after I do any other product.

[607] Probably the same thing I feel after a success.

[608] I feel after a failure too.

[609] It's the same fear.

[610] What next?

[611] How do we make season two as good?

[612] Yeah.

[613] So when chips didn't do well, I had already scheduled being on Conan the following Tuesday.

[614] And there's nothing quite like going to promote a movie that just tanked.

[615] The amount of humiliation.

[616] And so I'm like, how am I going to own this?

[617] So I had shirts printed up that said number one comedy in America.

[618] You know, the bit was basically Conan will go, well, how many comedies were out this weekend?

[619] And I'm halfway through this bit when all of a sudden it occurs to me very starkly.

[620] The audience doesn't know that this movie didn't do well.

[621] And I was like, oh my God, I got to kind of flip this whole thing right now.

[622] They don't get the joke that it was a tank, right?

[623] You've said Zoolander 2 twice, and I didn't even know that it didn't do well.

[624] Yeah, me either.

[625] I appreciate that.

[626] It's such a good point, which is we get wrapped up in our own story, in our own world, and that's the thing, but something doesn't do well.

[627] You have that feeling of humiliation of like, oh, God, I failed and everybody knows it.

[628] When 99 % of the people are just going about their line, you know, oh, is Zulentra, I got to check it out?

[629] Or Chips, I haven't seen it yet.

[630] And that's it.

[631] That's the whole thing, yeah.

[632] It's a totally different reality when you're living.

[633] in it.

[634] Because I've done stuff like that too, where I've made jokes about stuff.

[635] And then I realize, oh, the audience doesn't really.

[636] And then you feel worse because you're like, oh, God, I'm so self -aware.

[637] Well, no, I'll tell you what I had to do is midway through.

[638] Once I'm calculating all this really quick, real time, I just finally look at the audience.

[639] I go, guys, the film didn't do so hot.

[640] I own it.

[641] And then they start laughing another kind of reverse realizing why it's so funny.

[642] But what's ironic is they didn't know it failed.

[643] And I forced them to know it.

[644] You're going to understand I'm a loser before I leave you.

[645] But just in case, don't go see the movie because it didn't do well.

[646] Also, how are we defining success?

[647] Take Idiocracy.

[648] So it didn't do well, quote, at the time.

[649] And now it's a huge cult classic.

[650] It's a huge movie.

[651] Chips is like number two on Netflix right now.

[652] I mean, look, it's just a longer game than we think in the moment.

[653] It's like, okay, it's Friday.

[654] It didn't do great.

[655] That's that.

[656] And that's not the case.

[657] And you bump into me and I'm like, Zero Effects, the greatest movie.

[658] You're not expecting to hear that.

[659] You know, and at the end of the day, the decisions that you make about what you do have to come down to that.

[660] I think if there's anything that I've learned over the years, it's that, which is ultimately, do I want to spend my time on this project?

[661] Because win or lose in the moment is it going to be something that I enjoy doing and felt good about and wanted to make.

[662] And that's it, because it is, because you've never know.

[663] And I've had enough movies where they didn't work at a time.

[664] And then people are still like, oh, we'll remember that.

[665] And you've had an inordinate amount of winners, actually.

[666] So it's even comical to someone like me that the bumps would even still hurt because it's really a blessed career in totality.

[667] It's pretty outrageous.

[668] Yeah, but I think you're probably like me, too, that you're invested in what you're doing at the moment and looking forward, right?

[669] I'm so appreciative of all of the stuff that I've done.

[670] But it's also life, like our life experience is so in the moment that creatively, if I'm involved in something that I'm excited about that, That's going to make me happy in the moment, as opposed to thinking about the past successes or failures.

[671] Yeah, you probably don't say when thinking about Zuland 2, like, well, but meet the parents.

[672] Well, what about meeting them?

[673] I've had a lot of conversations with myself about it.

[674] That's just navigating this life of doing this stuff.

[675] Yeah.

[676] Okay, so that was great.

[677] Thank you.

[678] You're in a very, very unique position to answer this.

[679] You wrote with Bob Odenkirk.

[680] You directed Jack Black, you directed Jim Carrey, you've starred with Owen, you've started with Vince.

[681] You've virtually had a close experience with anyone we would put in the comedy canon of the last 20 years.

[682] And I want to know, is there something and does it fascinate you?

[683] What do you think about comedians?

[684] Yeah, they're unique talents.

[685] I mean, the first thing I think about is just commitment level and willingness to, go with something and think you're funny.

[686] And I don't mean that by thinking you're funny, like having a sense you're just thinking that it's worthwhile to do it and to try it.

[687] And different ways of getting there, Jim Carrey started out as a stand -up and was doing his thing and doing impressions.

[688] But Will Ferrell, to me, is like one of the, if not the funniest guy ever.

[689] For me, personally, I can just watch him all the time.

[690] And a unicorn, right?

[691] It seems to be coming from kindness and love.

[692] Yes, exactly.

[693] He's coming from this place, And it's very humble and yet he'll just do the craziest shit.

[694] I don't even know how to define it.

[695] But I know that on set or like working on these things, you know, you have to create an atmosphere where it's like, okay, this is what the situation is.

[696] We're going to commit to it.

[697] And watching any of these performers, there's no way to define what it is they do and why they do it so well other than it's a commitment level thing and they're talented.

[698] I don't know.

[699] How do you describe comedic talent?

[700] I appreciate it, and I appreciate it when I see someone who is that funny and committed, but I don't understand, like, Owen is totally different than anybody because it's hard to know his mind.

[701] Well, I would say he's a writer, would you agree?

[702] He is a writer, and I think his ideas come out of an intellectual place, a way that he sees a situation.

[703] For me, the first time I saw Owen was in Bottle Rocket.

[704] Yep, that's the number three movie.

[705] That's tight.

[706] So good.

[707] Incredible.

[708] How's an asshole like Bob gets such a great kitchen?

[709] Yeah.

[710] Did you ever see the short, the black and white short?

[711] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[712] Yeah, and that was what I saw first, and then I saw it in the movie theater.

[713] I sat by myself and watched it, and five minutes in, I just started laughing the whole time.

[714] There's just something in his persona.

[715] All these guys are very different, though, right?

[716] And, you know, it's an interesting period of time.

[717] Vince and Swingers, it's like, I don't understand that performance.

[718] Everybody's working together so well in that movie, but it was like this thing with Vince.

[719] Maybe it's part of who he was, but it was a confidence in who he was.

[720] And yet also a self -awareness, too, and a self -deprecation, but yet this combination.

[721] And I think you have to have that when you're doing comedy.

[722] He's a force of nature in that you're just like, okay, well, whatever this movie's about, the one thing I remember is I must follow this guy to wherever he goes next.

[723] Yeah, in Vince, for as tough a guy as he can be in roles, there is a warmth inside that you connect with in all of these people.

[724] And I think that is a key part of it.

[725] It's really hard to analyze, I think.

[726] It is.

[727] But here's my ultimate question for you.

[728] On this spectrum, there's Will, who's Will?

[729] He's so funny.

[730] I remember going to a doctor's office, these doors open.

[731] I've only met him four times, and he looks at me, and he goes, I just got my spleen removed.

[732] I'm so sorry.

[733] Like, you know, it's immediate bit, and he's so playful, and that's just who he is.

[734] And then I've gotten to know Jim Carrey, and he's a force of comedy, but that's not him walking through the supermarket.

[735] I happen to be virtually who I am, better or worse, whatever.

[736] level of funny I seem to be on movies is what I am in real life.

[737] And even I have this social anxiety about there's some expectation when you interact with me. I must fulfill this.

[738] Well, sure.

[739] I mean, I can connect with that, not knowing what they're going to expect of me. And I think part of it also is different kinds of roles and different kinds of movies and what version of me they are relating to or the expectation that you're a funny guy.

[740] You're such a funny person than myself when I think of people.

[741] I don't think of myself as funny.

[742] And by the way, I grew up with parents who were very funny, who say, I think the same thing.

[743] It's like they were just doing their thing.

[744] And, you know, my dad could be really funny in real life.

[745] But it was just him being him.

[746] And I think this expectation of the, even when the beginning of the interview, you said, hey, like, you're a comedian.

[747] And I was like, oh, gosh, am I a comedian?

[748] I guess I'm a comedian.

[749] Right.

[750] But I don't know.

[751] Am I really a comedian?

[752] I get it that I'm in comedies and I'm funny.

[753] I get that I can be funny, but it's never been my drive.

[754] I think my dad's drive was to be funny, and he was really funny.

[755] It's been part of who I am, but I just don't feel like I fulfill that.

[756] Not knowing you well enough to say this, I would put you in a category of brilliant writer and actor who knows comedy.

[757] In the vein of many great S &L writers, they're not the person that grabs the microphone at the bachelor party.

[758] Yes, that is so not me. Is that person That person's annoying.

[759] No, Will Ferrell grabs that microphone, and he puts on a hell of a show when he grabs it.

[760] Eugene Levy and Waiting for Guffin, I was not the class clown, but I studied the class clown.

[761] I'm the guy who can react to the guy with the microphone, because I've always felt comfortable reacting in comedic situations.

[762] Yeah, I think you're selling yourself short.

[763] I think you've driven the comedy player.

[764] I think you've been like, I remember watching Happy Gilmore and already having been a fan of the Ben Siller show, and let me get you a warm glass of shut the hell up.

[765] That dude's not reacting to something.

[766] He is the fucking catalyst of that moment.

[767] Yeah, there are some occasional characters.

[768] Which are fun.

[769] Yeah, it's really fun to also have the license to do that and not feel like, okay, there has to be a whole movie about that guy, the happy Gilmore guy.

[770] You know what I mean?

[771] Although I'd watch it, just side note.

[772] If being funny was driving your dad, if we could label it that, what drives you?

[773] And I'll add to it, who was your North Star?

[774] Who did you want to be?

[775] It always, for me, came back to wanting to be a director, wanting to be a movie director.

[776] I'm working on a documentary about my parents right now.

[777] I've been looking at a lot of footage of them when they were younger and then myself, you know, interviews they did with my parents when my sister and I were there when we were kids and I'm there talking like when I'm eight years old about like how I want to be a director.

[778] And for me, it was always like, yeah, I want to make movies like these movies I was watching when I was a kid and I've always been drawn to those 70s movies and that sort of reality.

[779] But I love Albert Brooks and his persona when he started doing those short films on Saturday Night Live, this guy who was making fun of himself.

[780] I did an audition tape for Saturday Night Live around the time I did the takeoff on the color of money.

[781] And I was basically just doing like this kind of guy.

[782] I was like full of himself.

[783] Hey, I'm Ben Stiller and I think I'm really talented.

[784] And I realize now that I was just trying to do Albert Brooks.

[785] Of course.

[786] But there was something about his comedy that he was a filmmaker and he was an actor and he was kind of making fun of show business.

[787] I think for me, growing up in show business, that was a huge part of it.

[788] That's why I loved SCTV because they made fun of show business and the ego aspects of it and the backstage stuff.

[789] There's something about that that I've just really drawn to.

[790] It didn't make for stuff that was very accessible to the rest of the world.

[791] Did you like big picture?

[792] I love the big picture.

[793] I mean, Chris Guest.

[794] It's interesting because as a filmmaker, I feel like he also created his own genre.

[795] People like him and Albert Brooks.

[796] If I think about who I wanted to kind of be like, it would probably be those guys.

[797] Yeah.

[798] Okay.

[799] Now, let's start with 14 Emmys.

[800] That's ridiculous.

[801] Well, nominations.

[802] Nomination.

[803] Okay.

[804] Thank you.

[805] That's a relevant distinction.

[806] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[807] You guys have won 14 Emmys.

[808] Let me list them for you.

[809] But I don't know what the record is.

[810] Whatever, that seems like a staggering amount of Emmys, directing, editing, score, lead actor, three supporting actor nominations, writing, production design, casting, right out of the gates.

[811] Isn't it fucking awesome to see the people you've worked with that you love get that through this trust in you on some level?

[812] Guys join me on this pirate ship and then to see that, I can't imagine there's anything more rewarding.

[813] No, it's the best.

[814] First off, to see Adam, Scott get recognized.

[815] Talk about operating on different levels and the way he's been committed to this role for a long time and the work that I saw him do, that was really great to see him get that kind of recognition.

[816] I felt like our cinematographer is an incredible Jessica Lee Gagnier.

[817] I felt like she deserved a nomination, but then we're lucky enough just even at any of these nominations, but I have to say, I think she's an incredible talent.

[818] So I'm proud of everybody on the show who's been nominated or not nominated.

[819] I mean, an incredible cast.

[820] And this stuff is so hard to handicap and to judge.

[821] And you know, how do you even understand when it happens and when it doesn't happen?

[822] So when it does happen, it's really, really nice.

[823] Yeah.

[824] Well, most of the time I'm like, that thing's a fucking joke.

[825] It's a popularity contest.

[826] It's mock elections in high school.

[827] But they want to show I love gets 14.

[828] I'm like, that's a good thing.

[829] They know what they're doing over there.

[830] They know what they're doing.

[831] They got it right.

[832] And it's important.

[833] It's always like that.

[834] Okay.

[835] Of my many fascinations, Monica said it already.

[836] There's an abundance of confidence, conviction, and control.

[837] The pacing, the tone, the confidence to let the audience be confused.

[838] All those things that you achieved as a director are incredible.

[839] I want to know if, For you, the show is a specific metaphor for something.

[840] You don't have to tell me what it is.

[841] Two, is it the same metaphor that Dan Erickson, the creator is having?

[842] It's a good question.

[843] I don't know, honestly, with Dan, because Dan and I didn't know each other before this show, and he worked on this pilot before I met him.

[844] And it's been in his head for a long time.

[845] Generationally, he's younger than I am.

[846] We have different influences.

[847] But tonally, when I read that pilot, it was so clear.

[848] what the feeling of the show was.

[849] You talk about tone.

[850] I thought the tone was there in the script, and it was very much related to workplace comedies.

[851] And that was the first thing that jumped out of me. It's like, oh, this is reminded me of the office.

[852] This is reminded me of office space.

[853] This is this sort of world, but then there's this other level to it.

[854] Honestly, it's kind of a simple metaphor.

[855] These people are going to work every day, and they're doing their job, and they're having these office relationships, and they're going back and forth, and they're bantering, and they're kind of just doing their thing.

[856] But at the end of the day, they don't know who they are.

[857] why they're there, what they're doing, where they are, any of it, right?

[858] And to me, that's just the basic metaphor for life.

[859] We're all kind of here doing our thing and keeping ourselves busy and trying to find meaning in it.

[860] But we ultimately don't know what it's all about.

[861] That basic idea to me was what I related to in the show.

[862] It was just like, okay, so like the severed floor is kind of like our universe and we don't know what's upstairs.

[863] Now, when you say the tone was there in the script, it was in the dialogue or the stage direction or the combination of the two it was everything it was the dialogue it made me laugh and it was sort of okay i understand this language i've heard this language before and then he had this other level to it it was like this stark bear world that felt like it had a lot of space in it to be filled in and for us to figure out what it is and i loved how spare it was and then i thought it was just a well -structured pilot by the end you realized that mark's spoiler but like mark's neighbor is also his boss and when that happened at the very end of the pilot.

[864] I was like, oh, wow, this is really, really interesting.

[865] I didn't know what it meant or what was going on, but I was intrigued.

[866] And one of the things I learned on Escape at Dynamora when we were doing it was like, oh, there's just this basic thing you have to know when you're making a television show, which is you got to make it interesting enough so that people want to tune in for the next episode, the cliffhanger or whatever, but you want to do it in a way that people are intrigued enough that they want to keep watching.

[867] It's simple.

[868] Yeah, the thing I heard, I remember when I started writing television instead of movies.

[869] This great executive told me movies answer questions and TV present more and more questions.

[870] Yeah.

[871] And, you know, obviously that makes it simpler sometimes when you don't have to answer the questions.

[872] And I think that's the balance of it.

[873] I was hoping we would get to in the season was that there was enough that was answered in terms of experientially for the characters, but also there were still more questions there.

[874] And that idea from episode to episode, if you can do that in a way that people do feel they're still taking care of and there's enough being given to them to satisfy the experience or doesn't feel like they're just being sort of manipulated.

[875] Now, there's so many elements that are great about it, but the cast is so phenomenal.

[876] A, I agree.

[877] I love Adam so much.

[878] Weirdly, you guys are kind of similar.

[879] He can be the most funny person ever, and his fucking acting is so dynamite, I think, underappreciated.

[880] But I think next, I have to go to John Tituro.

[881] The whole heart of that show to me is John Tituro.

[882] That's some of the best acting I've seen in my life.

[883] I can only imagine the glee I'd be experiencing behind a monitor watching this person give this to me. The layers.

[884] Oh, God.

[885] Yeah, he's substantial, isn't he, as an actor?

[886] He could make you want to quit.

[887] I mean, it's like, when you realize someone can do that, you're like, I am so fraudulent.

[888] I feel like he just takes it very seriously in the best way.

[889] You know that if he takes on a part, he's going to put his whole self into it, and he's going to take everything that he's learned as an actor, and he's going to make a choice.

[890] And he's at a point in his acting, I think, where that's really important to him is to go, I want to make this choice, and I want to explore this aspect of this character.

[891] So he came in with a fully formed character based on word for word what was on the page, no improvisation, but with his own interpretation laid onto it that from the very beginning was so specific.

[892] and funny, but also, there's something like so weighty about him when he commits to something.

[893] And that, I think, is one of the main reasons that you believe the world.

[894] Him and Patricia, too.

[895] He's the anchor.

[896] Yeah, these actors are so believable and are so invested.

[897] Him especially, he's the anchor because of his investment in the Egan philosophy and the cult of Kier Egan and the religion.

[898] His storyline is really of this person who's sort of like faith is broken and challenged by this real feeling of love for someone.

[899] He just invested so much and I think is so responsible for the believability of the world.

[900] Well, right, because he's so sweet.

[901] He has such a sweetness to him and he has such a heartbreak to him.

[902] And you're right, he's such a good soldier.

[903] He to be the one that recognizes he's been duped is like, no, not that guy.

[904] He's the one we love.

[905] He's so special.

[906] He's incredible.

[907] You know, it was his idea to cast Chris Walken in the show.

[908] Oh, wow.

[909] I think he really comes from a very soulful.

[910] place.

[911] But then in terms of his intensity as an actor, it can also be very daunting because he's so intense.

[912] Something I learned recently, too, was just to sometimes let the camera roll.

[913] Stuff can happen when you let the camera go.

[914] I think I have been yelling cut probably too soon.

[915] Recently, I started letting it go a little bit more.

[916] And with him, if you let it go, it was always interesting to see what we'd go on because you could just keep watching him stare at someone.

[917] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[918] And then he also has a playful sense where he gets where it's funny and is not afraid to go for that stuff, too.

[919] cramble.

[920] What a sex god.

[921] As soon as he walks in, I said to Chris, I'm like, look at the fucking physique on this guy.

[922] Look at this chassis.

[923] Look how he moves his chassis.

[924] Look how in control of his physicality is.

[925] The jazz scene.

[926] Look at him.

[927] Wow, can he dance.

[928] That was some awesome conflicting thing, too.

[929] He's the dickhead, but he's got this groovy side to him.

[930] This, too, is cognitive dissonance.

[931] I'm so intrigued.

[932] That's a fine for you, right?

[933] That's a casting process.

[934] Yeah.

[935] It was a casting process.

[936] and Tremel came in and read, and he was just really, really intriguing.

[937] I mean, he has an ability to be very, very still and very, very present.

[938] We were just at Comic -Con, and they did an activation of the set, and there was, like, a moment in there where we acted out some moment for fun where he was, like, looking at me, and he was giving me sort of the Milchick Stairdown.

[939] And I hadn't ever been on that side of it.

[940] The business end?

[941] Yeah, the business end of the Milchick Staredown.

[942] And it was serious.

[943] He has just this stillness and this sense of self, which you see in those breakroom scenes, too.

[944] I had no idea how great a dancer he would be at all.

[945] The moves that he came up with with Tara, our choreographer, were just like, wait a minute.

[946] I've never seen anything like it before.

[947] Yeah, it's so sexy.

[948] And him coming at Adam, who's doing like his kind of like white guy dance?

[949] Yeah, the white guy dance.

[950] It's just incredible.

[951] Okay, I have one last question and then one more compliment.

[952] So the question is, I have to imagine.

[953] imagine there was more questions from the actors on this show than anything you've ever done or ever will be because they're playing two different characters and we don't know much.

[954] There's so much mystery.

[955] There had to be a million like, okay, so this is my Audi.

[956] My Annie is this.

[957] My Audi is that.

[958] Was this the most laborious in exploration of character that you've ever had to go through?

[959] There weren't rules about it except that what we would make up.

[960] So we were trying to figure it out as we went along.

[961] So it wasn't like having to kind of figure out answers that I didn't have.

[962] It was more about, gosh, well, let's think about that.

[963] What could that be?

[964] One of the questions always was how much of my Audi is seeping through to my INI?

[965] Yeah.

[966] And I realized across the shoot, it's like, oh, well, any time we can explore that, it's really interesting.

[967] And John was really focused on that, too, because of his storyline, because of, like, dreaming stuff to himself.

[968] But then with Adam, Adam had such a clear idea of his Audi versus his iny in terms of voice, posture, clear choices that he made.

[969] But then when we would talk about a moment go like, okay, well, maybe right now there's something that's like fighting through a memory of PD or a scene with Ms. Casey where maybe there's like a touch of something.

[970] You know, the scene between Ms. Casey and Mark in the wellness session and episode eight after we've learned who she really is, that was a really interesting scene to talk about.

[971] I remember watching, going like, the littlest acknowledgement or moment can mean so much in a scene like this.

[972] So those questions were actually really fun to approach and there were never really any right or wrong answers yeah i guess i shouldn't use the word laborious but extensive yeah yeah on that point i guess for me the metaphor it was who are we without the list of things that happened to us that would be the outy world and then who are we when you reset us and put us as adults in this thing how much of it is your story and if you don't have that story anymore to anchor yourself who are you actually who are you with a fresh reset genetically i guess.

[973] And that's what's kind of intriguing about the show is like, yeah, we're this assemblage of details we've cobbled together.

[974] Yeah, the moment where he goes in and they read off traits about you, about your Audi, I cried.

[975] Yeah.

[976] Like hearing a list of who you are so plainly, it was just so powerful.

[977] It is weirdly emotional, isn't it?

[978] That's a really interesting idea of how much of ourselves is the stories that we tell about ourselves or the baggage that we carry from our experiences.

[979] How freeing would that be to be devoid of that?

[980] Or how scary is it?

[981] Or how do you feel totally untethered if you don't have those pieces?

[982] Yeah, but then that puts you so much more in the experiencing your life in the moment and not attaching meaning to everything.

[983] It's not running its way through cabillion memories.

[984] How do I feel safe in this situation?

[985] This seems similar to blank.

[986] I've been interviewed before.

[987] One time the guy did this, he gave me this compliment, but then all of a sudden he flipped it on me. You know, like, that's in your head and mine at all times.

[988] For sure.

[989] I mean, that's just living life in the moment.

[990] Our defense mechanisms and our ways of just getting through life.

[991] Okay, the last compliment I'm just going to give is it's so rare.

[992] I can list on a hand what shows have done this is it starts really good.

[993] The pilot is great.

[994] And it gets better and better and better and better.

[995] Like, when I'd be out proselytizing for the show, which I did ad nauseum, I'd be.

[996] be like, watch it.

[997] And guess what?

[998] It's even better.

[999] Yeah, by the last moment in the season finale, you're like screaming at how good it is.

[1000] You're just like, oh my God.

[1001] Well, you're calling Adam Scott and you're calling him a piece of shit.

[1002] You're telling him to pass on to Ben that he's a piece of shit.

[1003] I love that that's the new compliment.

[1004] Thank you.

[1005] That's great to hear.

[1006] I mean, once you get invested with the characters, like we were talking about earlier, the pace is its own pace.

[1007] It wasn't like a conscious decision.

[1008] It's just like, this is what feels right.

[1009] And when we talked about development, the show.

[1010] We didn't want too much to happen because Dan did know, okay, this is going to happen and this is going to happen.

[1011] And originally season one did go a lot further.

[1012] And we thought, no, there's so much good stuff.

[1013] And also there's so much here that we can just live in.

[1014] And I do feel like that's one of the things that I've really felt has happened with the show is that the audience has been able to fill in their own experience and their own ideas and their own questions.

[1015] And allowing that space to live in it, I think can be really enjoyable for an audience if you're up for that kind of thing.

[1016] Oh yeah, Chris and I would be debating the whole time and she's like, it's a tech metaphor.

[1017] I'm like, it's an identity metaphor.

[1018] Well, hold on.

[1019] And then she'd make her case to me. I'm like, that's pretty valid.

[1020] Maybe that is where we're going to find out it is.

[1021] And then similar, she'd be like, oh, maybe that could be it.

[1022] And then I'd see Monica, what do you think this thing's really about?

[1023] Definitely different things going on there and themes going on and the timing of when it came out, having to do with work and going to the office and disconnecting from life or connecting with life.

[1024] And this moment in time was just a very specific time for the show to come out that probably affected how people.

[1025] related to it.

[1026] Yeah, and the thing that was never explicitly stated that hit me at one point is like, well, this seems miserable.

[1027] This is dystopic.

[1028] There's all these things that I thought, well, it would be nice that at no point in your life did you experience working.

[1029] You'd wake up, you'd drive to work, you'd immediately get in your car drive home.

[1030] Like, that's actually appealing to many people.

[1031] And there's compartments of my life.

[1032] I wish I could just know I did it, but I don't have to sweep the garage to just walk in and walk out.

[1033] You know, there is some kernel of appeal to it, which is also pretty intriguing.

[1034] Especially for people who are working at jobs that they don't love.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] Exactly.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] I mean, we all could think of parts of our lives that we'd want to suffer from, but, you know, we can't do that.

[1039] Or if you could do it, would you really want to do that?

[1040] I don't know, because I feel like as I get older, I want to hang on more and more to my memory.

[1041] Well, it's because you're going to be dead in a couple minutes, as well I. Time is like clicking by now.

[1042] It's flying by so fast.

[1043] Yeah.

[1044] I'll take the shitty times.

[1045] Just give me times.

[1046] Exactly.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] Well, those times inform the other.

[1049] times, too.

[1050] It's all hyper -connected.

[1051] Exactly.

[1052] You can't feel the highs without that shitty day at work.

[1053] We have to let you go, but I have to ask because everyone's going to get so mad at me. We'll probably have to cut this.

[1054] But, okay, Heli R. Why is it R?

[1055] That's a good question.

[1056] That might get answers.

[1057] I honestly don't know.

[1058] Okay.

[1059] I can ask Dan about that.

[1060] I mean, I think it was a conscious choice from Helena to do that.

[1061] But, you know, one of those things that I can ask Dan about, but probably there's no. no good answer.

[1062] It was the only thing that I was like, wait, why I don't get that?

[1063] You know, maybe there is something we'll find out.

[1064] But, you know, the other funny thing has been that people have asked questions about specific things in the show that sometimes do mean something and then other times don't mean anything at all.

[1065] Of course.

[1066] But it's fun that there's like enough there that you can go, oh, maybe that actually does mean something.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] We're going to close with this because we didn't give her any praise and we should.

[1069] My favorite actress from Flirting with Disaster, Patty Arquette, one of my biggest old time crushes.

[1070] Holy shit, Alabama Worley.

[1071] I just got to be awesome to have done that movie together and now be so many years later doing this and sharing and a lot of praise.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] You know, I've gotten to know her again over the last five years from doing Dan Amora too.

[1074] That was where we kind of reconnected and hadn't really seen each other since flirting disaster that much except just in passing.

[1075] But she's just like salt to the earth amazing person who cares about people and cares about things more than show business.

[1076] She's authentic as fuck.

[1077] She's authentic and she really is creatively fearless.

[1078] You talk about those people like Jim Carrey and Will and she's right up there because she creatively, she is fearless and will try things and will go down the road.

[1079] And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but she's willing to completely commit.

[1080] One of the things I love about her is after she does a take 50 % of the time, she'll just crack up laughing.

[1081] Even if it's funny or not, she'll make a choice and then like it'll be over and then she'll just go, ah.

[1082] Oh, good.

[1083] That's great.

[1084] It's this childlike sense of just joy of playing and trying stuff.

[1085] That's just so much who she is.

[1086] That's awesome.

[1087] All right.

[1088] Well, I adore you.

[1089] I'm so glad you made time.

[1090] Dax, this is just so nice to talk to both of you guys.

[1091] I really, really enjoyed it.

[1092] Well, good.

[1093] I am, I kept my anxiety at a minimum.

[1094] Maybe we can see each other in real life and see if it works.

[1095] On another time, I'm going to tell you, my last week of using drugs and alcohol was on the island of Kauai.

[1096] So my memories of Kauai are real specific.

[1097] He's like car accidents, throwing up while snorkeling, throwing up while out of zip lining.

[1098] Oh, my God.

[1099] One funny thing I implore you to look up on YouTube.

[1100] I wanted to learn to how to play Send Lawyers Guns and Money by Warren Zevon.

[1101] So I found this clip of him.

[1102] Mind you, I went there, and that was my last week.

[1103] I got sober.

[1104] I then wrote a screenplay called Send Lawyers Guns and Money.

[1105] And so I wanted to learn to play the song on guitar.

[1106] I find a fucking YouTube clip.

[1107] He's about to sing live.

[1108] And he goes, I wrote this song after having worked for many years.

[1109] straight and decided that I wanted a vacation.

[1110] So I went down to the island of Kauai and I found after two weeks of improbable danger and mischief, I shouldn't take vacations.

[1111] Well, and I was like, well, zip, zap, zap, zap, what's happening?

[1112] Wow, Sam.

[1113] So it's a powerful island you're on.

[1114] Watch your ass.

[1115] Thanks, man. Yeah, no, I've been coming here for like 25 years and it's only been powerful and good.

[1116] I will try not to throw off snorffering.

[1117] Well, those fish will come quick.

[1118] They'll come quick, I'll tell you.

[1119] Oh, my God.

[1120] All right, ma 'am.

[1121] Be well.

[1122] Have a great rest of the time.

[1123] Thanks, Mary.

[1124] All right, bye.

[1125] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1126] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1127] Okay, now I'm recording.

[1128] I don't record these anymore.

[1129] I talk about what we talked about.

[1130] Yes, we were just, we were lamenting about the huge gap in quality between a laptop over FaceTime and an IPACs, an iPhone, an ipony.

[1131] So many eyes.

[1132] And it's counterintuitive because you have this big old robust machine.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] You think it would be like 4K, the cammy, right?

[1135] You don't think about it much, I'm learning.

[1136] No, I'm more interested in your background.

[1137] Oh.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] Describe it to yourself out loud, and then the listener will have a sense of what's happening.

[1140] Okay.

[1141] Well, I thought you were in your motor home, but you're not.

[1142] But it was confusing because behind you is a beautiful set of bunk beds, two bunks.

[1143] Bunky bunks.

[1144] Yep.

[1145] Low and high.

[1146] Do you remember when Delta used to call him her bunkey, or her bunky bunk?

[1147] No, I don't.

[1148] And that makes me sad.

[1149] Yeah.

[1150] Yeah, life's full of sadness that way, you know.

[1151] Oh.

[1152] Well, because I'm remembering Bunky Bunk, but surely I've forgotten 97 % of the cute things she said along the way.

[1153] Do you remember she said, Gien?

[1154] Yes.

[1155] In Lello?

[1156] Gein and Lello.

[1157] I don't even remember Lello.

[1158] Yeah, Gine is great, though.

[1159] Gein.

[1160] The Grinch who stole Christmas was Gine.

[1161] Unfortunately now, her vocabulary is quite robust.

[1162] Shockingly so.

[1163] It gives me so much delight.

[1164] I guess, you know, I don't know what other parents hope their kids will get or want them to have.

[1165] I've yet to wonder if they're going to be tall or not.

[1166] I could give a fuck, right?

[1167] I don't care.

[1168] I can care what color their eyes were.

[1169] But when they bang out something multisyllabic, I'm thrilled.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] They're really smart.

[1172] Thank you.

[1173] I guess that's their compliment, right?

[1174] I don't say thank you after that.

[1175] What's protocol?

[1176] No, you can.

[1177] I think when people give my parents' compliments about me, they take that as their own.

[1178] You know, when people, when I bump into people and they go, I love Monica.

[1179] I go, thank you.

[1180] Yeah, you're allowed.

[1181] You're allowed to do that.

[1182] Okay, back to the bunky bunks behind me. Okay, yeah.

[1183] I'm conflicted about saying it because it feels very name droppery, but whatever.

[1184] This is one of my close friends.

[1185] So Jimmy Kimmel owns this incredible fishing.

[1186] Lodge in Idaho, and this is now the second time he's done it where he closes it for a week for a handful of his friends, and it's the perfect vacation you could ever take, especially if you have a family, because he also brings in some camp counselors, as you know, Delta's like head over heels in love with this one counselor, Maggie.

[1187] Yeah, oh, she's there?

[1188] Yes, and if you recall, she cried for like three days after we left last year.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] And I was delighted to see, or at least Maggie's a great actress.

[1191] She, too, seemed to be really excited to see Delta.

[1192] Of course she was.

[1193] You know, Delta FaceTimes are throughout the year.

[1194] Sure.

[1195] I don't love this, but go on.

[1196] Continue.

[1197] This is an age -old topic for you and I. Her capacity to love you at a 20 and this Maggie gal.

[1198] I feel secure -ish.

[1199] but I can't get too into it because we're going to have a whole podcast on it but ding, ding, ding, I started my shots last night.

[1200] I know.

[1201] Another thing I was conflicted about.

[1202] A couple things before I even fac -timed you.

[1203] Am I going to say I'm at Jimmy Kimmel's fishing lodge?

[1204] That sounds braggy.

[1205] Two, all I'm really going to want to know about is your eggs.

[1206] And yet, of course, that's going to be its own podcast.

[1207] So then I was like, do I, what are the limits that I can inquire?

[1208] Yeah, we can talk a little bit about it, but then I'll cut some and keep some.

[1209] But you can hear.

[1210] But also, it's not braggy.

[1211] You're friends with Jimmy.

[1212] He's your friend, and he invited you on a trip to his house.

[1213] It's fine.

[1214] Yeah.

[1215] And it's really, really fun.

[1216] And then the guests are really, really, should we go?

[1217] Do you want to do eggs now or do you want me to, because there was something I thought about telling you.

[1218] He put together a smashing group of folks, as was the case last year.

[1219] so much good conversation.

[1220] There's activities, right?

[1221] Lincoln and I went whitewater rafting on Monday.

[1222] So we're having lunch, and then everyone's kind of starting to talk about where they're going off to.

[1223] Like, I'm going on a hike.

[1224] Everyone, like, big group was going on a hike.

[1225] And I got pissed.

[1226] I was like, you can hike anywhere.

[1227] The thing that's world -class about this week is, like, all the chit -chat you can have over the communal lunch or the communal dinner.

[1228] That's the thing I crave all year long.

[1229] Anyways, so on brand with me. So yesterday, I found myself, I think I was in a four -hour conversation with three dudes.

[1230] You must know one of them.

[1231] Oh, my God, more ding, ding, ding for you.

[1232] It was talked about whether you guys should get married.

[1233] So have you ever seen that video of, there's two videos I think you'll have seen.

[1234] Okay.

[1235] He was a NASA mechanical engineer.

[1236] And he was pissed that people were stealing Amazon boxes off the porches in his neighborhood.

[1237] So he rigged up these Amazon boxes with these.

[1238] When you'd open them, it would shoot pink dust everywhere and it would blow up a fart bomb and it filmed the whole thing and then other shit came out.

[1239] The people were like, you know, they're fucking freaked out.

[1240] Yes, I do vaguely remember that.

[1241] Yeah, I didn't know he was a NASA engineer.

[1242] Yeah, I don't know if that was his first video, but now he's an enormous YouTube star.

[1243] And you've also seen probably these ones.

[1244] He does these things, I think they're called toothpaste somethings, where like he drops these ingredients in a bunch of, pool and then this foam erupts at like the scariest pace ever and takes over the entire yard oh i have seen those i think you showed me they're crazy they're scary the pace of it you're like oh i think that could take over a neighborhood and you'd be lost in it yes so he's brilliant and really fun and i'm just getting to know him then there's another dude sean here and he is an ex green Bray, so of course I'm fascinated.

[1245] And then this other great guy, Scott, who grew up in Atlantic City.

[1246] Oh.

[1247] And we got into this conversation and it was kind of about being masculine and hiding pain and what you're really doing.

[1248] And it was so deep.

[1249] I think abnormally deep for four stranger men in particular.

[1250] And I left this thing, like the whole day went by.

[1251] And I got back to the cabin and I was like, boy, am I doing the right job in life.

[1252] Like, I'm on the holiday and I literally had basically a four version of our show for free and I loved it and it's all I want to do you bring me to a beautiful location where you could go fly fishing and shit I don't give a fuck I want to sit down and talk that's nice it's nice to know that you're doing the right thing it is I mean for me it was nice get some reinforcement from the uni so far we're getting along well but there's another titan in the podcast space here which is a little awkward which is baitman I think people are waiting for us to get into it.

[1253] Okay.

[1254] No, it's not like that.

[1255] It's not like that.

[1256] I'm making a joke.

[1257] He's an old friend as well, but a couple of the funnier guys have seen us walking together and made jokes that one of us is going to kill the other one or whatever on the walk.

[1258] It's kind of funny.

[1259] Yeah.

[1260] Anywho.

[1261] Well, that's fun, but I'm glad you guys are having fun.

[1262] And so you're in like a special room, a kid's room.

[1263] It's like, I guess, you could, it's not a standalone cabin.

[1264] And it's like there's three little cabins within a larger cabin.

[1265] And it's basically a room with two queen -sized beds.

[1266] And then this cute little nook I'm in that has a desk I'm sitting in front of, a couple of comfortable chairs.

[1267] And then these cute monkey bunks behind me. It's really nice, this place.

[1268] The food is insane.

[1269] It's so well decorated.

[1270] You'd love it.

[1271] That's awesome.

[1272] South Fork Lodge.

[1273] If anyone wants to come here, you can.

[1274] It's incredible South Fork Wodge in Idaho.

[1275] So cool.

[1276] Are your eggs?

[1277] Oh, my eggs.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] So Liz and I started yesterday.

[1280] Uh -huh.

[1281] And it already just like, it's already crazy.

[1282] There's already a plot.

[1283] I mean, both of us yesterday were just so anxious.

[1284] We weren't together until the end of the night.

[1285] So you do them at night.

[1286] Uh -huh.

[1287] So our first episode, I guess I'll tease this.

[1288] We had Callie come.

[1289] Okay.

[1290] And so she talked about her experience and then also.

[1291] We did the shots on...

[1292] Oh, in the attic or in my house?

[1293] In the attic.

[1294] Okay.

[1295] Which was all so interesting because there was no light.

[1296] No, yeah, terrible lighting.

[1297] Mm -hmm.

[1298] Mm -hmm.

[1299] So we had to turn the ring light on and the bathroom light on and it was like weird lights.

[1300] And you're stabbing yourself for the first time in the abdomen, right?

[1301] Correct.

[1302] How did you like that?

[1303] I was so nervous.

[1304] I was really anxious all day.

[1305] And if I was a, what I thought was a 10, Liz was a 45.

[1306] Like, she was, and she hates needles.

[1307] I don't hate needles.

[1308] That's not a thing.

[1309] Like, I'm fine getting my blood drawn.

[1310] But there is something about stabbing yourself.

[1311] I've never done that.

[1312] So anyway, we do the whole thing.

[1313] Everyone will hear that whole ride.

[1314] That sounds so funny.

[1315] I can't wait to hear it.

[1316] That's really ridiculous.

[1317] You know, the attic is really becoming a veritable laboratory because between my drug samples, I put pee in these things, and we run lab results in there.

[1318] You're administering highly potent hormones.

[1319] Yep.

[1320] It's really become a laboratory.

[1321] Yeah, and maybe we should, when you get your zapper, we could keep it in the attic and you could zap in there.

[1322] I always kind of wondered when I ordered it.

[1323] Like, you don't have to show a medical license for this.

[1324] That was always a little curious, right?

[1325] So, and by God, that motherfucker has yet to show up.

[1326] And I've now been wondering if it was a scam, if I just, like, gave money to some website that has no intention of sending anything to me, or if it's just back -ordered and they take forever.

[1327] But anyways, I'm impatiently awaiting the arrival of my zapper.

[1328] Do you think this is all leading towards future guests on the show will be given a gown to change in two in the bathroom before the interview?

[1329] Who starts, it will, like, go over their skin and you'll inject them with some things.

[1330] I'll drug test them.

[1331] We'll do, like, a whole panel.

[1332] Yeah.

[1333] I love it.

[1334] I love it.

[1335] You're this doctor and I can be that doctor.

[1336] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1337] This doctor and that doctor.

[1338] Is your appointment with this doctor or that doctor?

[1339] Oh, my God.

[1340] And then when I went in, so you start your first day of your period, you go in and, you go in.

[1341] And they take your blood and they do a vaginal ultrasound, make sure everything's good.

[1342] And of course, so my doctor is a woman, but the person that did my ultrasound was a man. He comes in and I'm on my period.

[1343] So I'm also like bleeding on this table.

[1344] And there's a man who's about to stick basically a dildo.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] I was like, this is so awful.

[1347] And he's, like, young and kind of cute.

[1348] And I was like, oh, my God.

[1349] Was he a racked?

[1350] I didn't look.

[1351] He wasn't wearing, like, O .R. scrubs.

[1352] He was wearing scrubs, but I couldn't look.

[1353] I couldn't pay attention.

[1354] Oh, I would have been full mask in those scrubs.

[1355] What a testament to how powerful your brain is and how compartmentalizing is.

[1356] So in any other circumstance, if this guy inserts a dildo into an attractive girl, he's going to be so hard.

[1357] And you and any other circumstance get a dildo inserted into you by a handsome young man, it's going to feel sexual.

[1358] But I'm guessing it didn't feel sexual at all.

[1359] No. I know.

[1360] It is fascinating.

[1361] It's the same organ with the same nerve endings.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] And your brain's like, no, this is not that.

[1364] No, it was not that.

[1365] And so also then my stomach growled and he thought it was the other nurse in there.

[1366] and he like made a joke about the sound and I was like oh no that was me and then and then it was uncomfortable because then he obviously was embarrassed that he made a joke and it was about me and he has a wand inside of me when all this is happening he's counting my follicles and it is like I want to be dead now uh okay yeah I'm sorry so that was fun yeah so I was just really pessimistic about it but then by at the end when I did my shot then I felt like a chemist empowered I really did well you know I've done this same thing with HGH yeah five days a week in your stomach you clean it and put the needle in the vial and make sure there's no air all that stuff is that the stuff you're talking yeah it's it's kind of like what we when you had your thing and we were like cleaning it oh the port yeah the port it was kind of like the port it was kind of like the port hi we've got a camper oh fresh in from horseback riding how was it it was so hot and I did my bandage on my foot too tight oh okay I took it off my toes were like humongous oh my god they had swelled up the horse didn't fall on you though right um the horse did not fall on me okay but it was going to it kept slipping oh it was clumsy yes and there was a time where it just went like this And it almost fell over.

[1367] Oh, Jesus.

[1368] Okay.

[1369] It was making these weird grinds down.

[1370] I was like, is it okay?

[1371] Uh -huh.

[1372] Was he you think it was an old horse or just had gotten drunk last night?

[1373] Why was it in this state?

[1374] I don't know.

[1375] There was a lot of rocks that he was walking on.

[1376] He was losing traction.

[1377] Yes.

[1378] Okay.

[1379] The highlight monocke of the whole trip, well, double tied.

[1380] Obviously, whitewater rafting with Link.

[1381] And then yesterday, a really, really protracted motorcycle.

[1382] ride where we ended up in this like boat lunch parking lot we were doing laps and we're driving on places we weren't supposed to and i really feel like it got really lincoln actually got the bug in an interesting way yesterday so that was that was fun that's fair do you want to say hi and goodbye to monica uh yeah hi and goodbye and i love you oh yeah i love you love you she said i love you Okay, anywho, empowerment, needles.

[1383] So day one's done.

[1384] I'm really glad day one's done because, woof, we were like not in a good space.

[1385] Callie was like, there's weird energy in the year.

[1386] Do you think you guys are a good pairing?

[1387] Well, I know.

[1388] Ultimately, do you think you should have had maybe someone like me in the mix that's like doesn't really give a fuck about anything?

[1389] That could be steady.

[1390] I 100 % when after I went in for the first appointment I knew it was coming the next day or when my period started I was like I wish Dax was here and I wish she was here for the first piece Thank you because I did I was like I think there's a calmness that you would have brought to the table The guy who talked to you through a mushrooms trip you wanted that guy to show up Yeah I was like Oh no and you did feel really far away I was like, oh, my God, and now you can't.

[1391] And, like, it's not going to be the same if it's Zoom.

[1392] And I was like, ugh.

[1393] So I was like, who's that?

[1394] And Callie is 100 % that.

[1395] And she's done it.

[1396] So it was, like, all very perfect.

[1397] I'm so happy she brought, like, she really...

[1398] Some stability.

[1399] Did her best.

[1400] Did her best to bring us down.

[1401] She definitely brought me down.

[1402] Oh, good.

[1403] This is...

[1404] This already sounds way more promising than I could have imagined.

[1405] And I already thought it would be good.

[1406] But, yeah, the notion that you guys are unraveling is really fantastic.

[1407] I mean, Molly and Amy are coming over tonight.

[1408] They're going to come for dinner and they're going to come for the shots.

[1409] Oh, fun.

[1410] Everyone's getting their hands on it.

[1411] You guys are basically not like, you know what the guys at Gold's gym are all about.

[1412] They're like shooting each other up with steroids.

[1413] Exactly.

[1414] Yeah, making it communal.

[1415] Yeah, exactly.

[1416] What have you noticed that there were, like, the flies had been replaced with horse flies.

[1417] Oh, my gosh.

[1418] Like much bigger, stronger flies.

[1419] They just placed the household flies that had normally been around.

[1420] Ew.

[1421] Yuck.

[1422] Oh, my God.

[1423] Okay, anyway, moving on.

[1424] Anywho, yes.

[1425] Okay, so this is for Ben Stiller.

[1426] Oh.

[1427] Oh, Ben Stiller.

[1428] Well, okay.

[1429] Now, their name dropped.

[1430] So one of the other guests is, we had them, you love him, I love him so much, and him Scott.

[1431] I mean, I think on this trip I already felt this way, but it's like quadruple confirmed how interested I am in him as a person.

[1432] Ooh.

[1433] I try my hardest to get seated next to him every meal.

[1434] Nice.

[1435] I find him fascinating because he has that George Washington superpower, I covet.

[1436] Quietness.

[1437] Yeah, stillness, quietness, confident, whatever inverse Dunning Krueger effect is, either that, you know.

[1438] Fucking what a savant he is with movies.

[1439] It's mind -blowing.

[1440] Every movie ever made, every actor in it.

[1441] But at any rate, I got to tell him, oh, we had Ben on, I liked it so much.

[1442] He had said, oh, Ben told me how funny he thought the message is where we were leaving each other.

[1443] And I was like, oh, that's nice.

[1444] Because when I rolled that out, I was like, I don't know if he thinks this is.

[1445] I don't know.

[1446] I didn't get a sense in that moment that he loved that or disliked it.

[1447] He was laughing.

[1448] Okay, okay, okay.

[1449] But anyways, yeah, it came third hand that he did.

[1450] So that was nice.

[1451] Good.

[1452] It's so awesome that we got to talk to him, especially about our favorite show.

[1453] Truly.

[1454] No smoke was, was, what were you?

[1455] Blown.

[1456] Blown.

[1457] Sprayed.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] No smoke was sprayed.

[1460] Okay.

[1461] So Ben only has two facts.

[1462] really yeah there wasn't you know it was just like good chats but i think that's low for me i'm generally throwing some stuff out you weren't that i don't know about yeah oh good well then i'm proud of myself i'm surprised i wasn't trying to blow him away with some stats this might be interesting so you guys told me you and wabi told me like a few days later like oh did he email you i'm like what i did yeah yeah and then you said oh he had asked for for your email address, and that was immediately flattering, you know.

[1463] And then, of course, worst case, I was like, oh, he just wants to tell me to take something out.

[1464] That's the only reason he wants my email.

[1465] And then, as I'm prone to do, I let a couple wild fantasies run away with me. Of course.

[1466] Right?

[1467] And then I was in this huge conundrum in my head, which was like, what if he is emailing me to tell me he wants me to be in severance next season?

[1468] And I was like, oh, talk about a Sophie's choice because I love the show.

[1469] I worship him.

[1470] And I can't do that.

[1471] I can't go away for five months.

[1472] My love and priority is this show.

[1473] Putting aside any thoughts of do I even want to act, I just was like, that would be a really weird test for me. And what I'm declaring I want to do on this day versus that.

[1474] Yeah.

[1475] Well, maybe you could have a small part.

[1476] and you could just work a few weeks.

[1477] Or day play, just show up for us, like walk through a scene or something.

[1478] Background.

[1479] It would be good as you and I are both lamenting.

[1480] We're going to lose our insurance.

[1481] I know.

[1482] No, I know.

[1483] I am starting to really panic.

[1484] And I've also turned down some auditions also because this show is priority and that I want it to be.

[1485] I mean, I think I'm just going to have to get comfortable with, like, I'm going to buy insurance next year.

[1486] Yeah.

[1487] Poor us.

[1488] Welcome to the real world.

[1489] I too will have to do that.

[1490] But boy, I do like that insurance.

[1491] It's a really good insurance.

[1492] I haven't had to think about it for whatever, 16, 17 years.

[1493] You have frozen on me. So I'm inclined to.

[1494] Well, how about we hang up and you call me right back.

[1495] Okay.

[1496] Now we're cooking.

[1497] Better.

[1498] Wow.

[1499] That got scary for a sec. Me too.

[1500] And I was thinking, was that enough to wrap it up right there?

[1501] No, that would be very cliffhangering.

[1502] But that is like severance.

[1503] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1504] Ding, ding, ding, sign from God.

[1505] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, my dad.

[1506] Ding, ding, ding.

[1507] A joke.

[1508] Okay, well, I realize one of the facts is not a fact.

[1509] I could still do it, but I was going to try to play this scene from the exorcist where she pees on the floor because that was a life -altering moment for him.

[1510] Right, really impactful.

[1511] But we're not together.

[1512] It's not as good.

[1513] Hold your phone up to the mic and let's see if...

[1514] Okay.

[1515] Let's see.

[1516] Is it just sounds of tinkle hitting the ground?

[1517] Is it more of a folly clip?

[1518] I'm not sure.

[1519] We'll have to see.

[1520] Okay, ready?

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] Oh, ad.

[1523] Oh, that's loud.

[1524] That's a loud ad.

[1525] Oh, don't show me and let me guess.

[1526] Seaside?

[1527] It was for Hotels .com.

[1528] Was it an ocean scape?

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] I think I heard a seagull.

[1531] Yeah, it was.

[1532] Okay, okay, great.

[1533] This is a fun game.

[1534] Let's just play ads and you can guess what's what.

[1535] Yeah, yeah, I'll try to figure out what you're looking at.

[1536] That is a fun game.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] Okay, okay, ready?

[1539] This is the clip.

[1540] Okay, so some kind of a gathering on the piano.

[1541] With me as a headliner for all eternity and they love me. Is that a priest tick on the ivory?

[1542] Yeah.

[1543] Okay.

[1544] Unconventional.

[1545] I can see it really good, Monica.

[1546] Oh, good.

[1547] Now we got a guy in a plaid suit.

[1548] Oh, here comes to the little girl.

[1549] She's staring blankly at them with her back to camera.

[1550] Oh, oh, what a pig.

[1551] Tinkles.

[1552] She just let it rip.

[1553] She stared him in the eyes and let it flow.

[1554] That is memorable.

[1555] What kind of illness would you have that?

[1556] She's been sick.

[1557] She could have had a seizure.

[1558] Oh, true.

[1559] Now we know.

[1560] But she looked really cogent.

[1561] She did look the opposite of seizing.

[1562] She was very stiff.

[1563] Still, calm, eye contact, yeah.

[1564] Maybe she has incontinence.

[1565] There we go.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] She's older than we thought.

[1568] Oh, she could have that Benjamin Button.

[1569] She's aging backwards.

[1570] And so she's like a grandma who pees.

[1571] Nearing the end.

[1572] Yeah.

[1573] That's right.

[1574] Okay.

[1575] So that was cool.

[1576] We made that work.

[1577] What show's been nominated for the most Emmys in one season?

[1578] Why don't you guess?

[1579] Well, let me just ask, is it current or is it from a while ago?

[1580] It's current, but it's...

[1581] I know this.

[1582] Ted Lassow?

[1583] No. Let me just say this.

[1584] Severin's got 14.

[1585] Ted Lassow got 20.

[1586] Oh, wow.

[1587] Okay, this isn't that.

[1588] This is, it's kind of an annoying answer.

[1589] Oh, okay, because it's, I got you.

[1590] Is it current or not?

[1591] It is a show that's still running, but it's been running for so many years.

[1592] Oh, so that's cumulative Emmys, not most in one year.

[1593] No, I typed in one year.

[1594] This keeps coming.

[1595] Oh, hold on.

[1596] Now I have a new one.

[1597] Oh, this is ever evolving.

[1598] A new round of Emmy Noms just came out.

[1599] Yeah, no, this keeps, but it's wrong.

[1600] I don't understand this.

[1601] What is it?

[1602] What's it say?

[1603] Sary Night Live.

[1604] Oh, I'm mad at myself.

[1605] It crossed my mind to say that.

[1606] Because you have guest hosts.

[1607] You have all these writing.

[1608] You have producing.

[1609] You have a show.

[1610] You have live.

[1611] You have a variety.

[1612] Right.

[1613] It ends up falling into like a ton of categories.

[1614] I know, but it's still, I think it's still wrong, though.

[1615] It's stupid.

[1616] It's saying what show holds the record for most Emmy nominations in one year.

[1617] And then it's saying Saturday Night Live.

[1618] But then it's saying it has a total of 300.

[1619] 15 Emmy nomination since 1975, but that's not what I'm asking, you know?

[1620] No, we're asking for a single calendar year.

[1621] Oh, oh my gosh, hold on.

[1622] 30 Rock, but this is for comedy.

[1623] 30 Rock had 22 nominations in 2009.

[1624] Whoa.

[1625] Okay, let's see how many Game of Thrones?

[1626] I also, you know the one I think that would really make you shook, would either be West Wing or Sopranos.

[1627] Oh, West Wings.

[1628] Because Sopranos was like, that was a freight train.

[1629] That was the first time we all saw movies on TV.

[1630] I imagine, although there might not have been enough categories to swell up to 22, I don't know.

[1631] Let me, okay, hold on.

[1632] Game of third.

[1633] The hormones are making it hard for me to type.

[1634] Uh -huh.

[1635] Mm -hmm.

[1636] I believe that.

[1637] Hi there.

[1638] I think you can get such a kick out of Delta on this trip.

[1639] This is her trip.

[1640] It was last time, and then even more so this time.

[1641] We're an inconvenience.

[1642] We see her when she leaves.

[1643] And then we see her when we drag her out of the clubhouse at 11 p .m. And she's saying, no, I'm going to hang more.

[1644] Like, I just went to find her because the other girls were horseback riding.

[1645] And I said to Maggie, have you seen Delta?

[1646] Oh, she's on a river float trip.

[1647] No. Oh, yeah.

[1648] Oh, my God.

[1649] She signed herself up.

[1650] And there she was sightseeing on a river float.

[1651] trip she is living her very best self here oh i love that i was thinking like she's going to be so excited to go to college yeah oh i hope she goes to georgia me too tax no i just naturally as you would guess and if she were your daughter you'd think the same as like i bet she's going to want to go to new york i just how could she not no because she she would do so good in a quintessential college experience.

[1652] New York is not that.

[1653] New York is city life while going to college.

[1654] I want her to have the campus, the fall leaves, the booty bumping.

[1655] Kegers, football games?

[1656] Yeah, like she's going to have to go to a frat party or two.

[1657] Definitely football games.

[1658] She'll be fine at them.

[1659] I don't need her at a frat party.

[1660] She'll be fine.

[1661] She'll be fine.

[1662] She's smart and wise.

[1663] Are you going to be armed?

[1664] I guess they have liberal carry policies.

[1665] She'll go with a lot of friends and be protected like I did.

[1666] Why is she going to go to a frat party?

[1667] I, again, I know I'm painting with way too broad of a brush.

[1668] I know a lot of dudes that are.

[1669] Hello.

[1670] Are you talking about me?

[1671] I was talking about what a great time you're having here.

[1672] Would you agree?

[1673] Yes.

[1674] Go ahead, Monica.

[1675] I hope you go to my college.

[1676] In Georgia when you go to college.

[1677] She hopes you go to the same one she went to her.

[1678] Because I think you'll like it there.

[1679] Why?

[1680] Because I just think you'll like it because you're fun.

[1681] Oh, and it's fun?

[1682] Yeah, it's so fun.

[1683] I miss you.

[1684] Are you having fun with Maggie?

[1685] Mm -hmm.

[1686] Good.

[1687] I'm soaking because I just went out a river ride.

[1688] Oh, my God.

[1689] Did you have fun?

[1690] Mm -hmm.

[1691] I came here.

[1692] Did you see any wildlife?

[1693] Oh, I went again.

[1694] I know.

[1695] Um, last time I saw, um, a girl, moose.

[1696] Oh, my God.

[1697] Cool.

[1698] And, yeah, I came here to change.

[1699] Okay, love you.

[1700] Okay.

[1701] Um, what was I saying?

[1702] You're clumsy.

[1703] You're typing in Emmys.

[1704] What's the best thing you've eaten?

[1705] Fuck, the food is so insanely good here.

[1706] It's crazy.

[1707] And you know, it's fun is every meal's communal.

[1708] There's no, you sit down and they start bringing food in an order.

[1709] which, by the way, is such a good hack.

[1710] Like, to me, you know, you've seen how impatient I am.

[1711] You also know you dislike this about me. When I order food for the pod, I just order it.

[1712] You do what people like.

[1713] I can't do the 35 minutes of people talking about what they want to eat.

[1714] Yeah.

[1715] I'll get enough food.

[1716] You'll find something.

[1717] So it eliminates that whole, you're in the middle of a conversation.

[1718] You've got to pause everything to talk about this.

[1719] That doesn't happen.

[1720] You sit down, you lock in, you get into it, and then the food just arriving.

[1721] It's the dream.

[1722] I wonder if a restaurant like that would work in L .A. Where they just bring you food?

[1723] Yeah, you come for dinner and they serve you what they made and they got enough options.

[1724] So if you're vegetarian or not, you'll be fine.

[1725] But other than that, there's no, you sit down, you know what they make is good.

[1726] That's basically what's here.

[1727] Everything they bring is great.

[1728] So even if stuff I wouldn't ever order when it's in front of me, I'll eat it.

[1729] And I'll be like, oh, damn, this is great.

[1730] Well, they do that at sushi restaurants.

[1731] If you get the...

[1732] I know.

[1733] Trust me. Omisake.

[1734] You're right.

[1735] That is exactly the same.

[1736] Yet I can't just eat everything off a sushi menu.

[1737] You know me. I'm a lightweight.

[1738] So it just doesn't work for me, so it doesn't appeal to me. I get that.

[1739] But if they're going to serve a beef or chicken dish, that's a given.

[1740] And then they're going to serve some vegetarian things.

[1741] Like, we're good.

[1742] You and I are good.

[1743] The closest thing to it, which is fantastic, and half of the reason I love it so much is salt lick.

[1744] Yeah, that's true.

[1745] They basically say, do you want to eat or not?

[1746] Yeah, I do.

[1747] Okay, great.

[1748] So I'll charge you this amount.

[1749] That's really true.

[1750] Yum, that sounds good.

[1751] I'm supposed to eat some salty foods.

[1752] Oh, you are?

[1753] Mm -hmm.

[1754] Because there's lots of bloating that happens.

[1755] Yeah.

[1756] Doesn't salt cause bloating?

[1757] Okay, so it's counterintuitive.

[1758] But you're actually bloating because your ovaries are trying to, They're hoarding all the water that would go into your GI.

[1759] And so the salt lures back the fluid into your GI so it can process that a little more.

[1760] And so you bloat less.

[1761] Oh, wow.

[1762] Very counterintuitive.

[1763] Okay, I found something, okay?

[1764] Yeah.

[1765] Yep, SNL.

[1766] Perfect.

[1767] We got it.

[1768] Okay, so this is overtime.

[1769] It must be.

[1770] but SNL, Game of Thrones is two.

[1771] With how many?

[1772] 164.

[1773] Oh, wow.

[1774] Well, we can do the math there.

[1775] It only had, what, eight seasons or seven?

[1776] Oh, ran from 2011 to 2019.

[1777] I know, but sometimes there was a year and a half between seasons.

[1778] But I'm going to, let's just say eight for fun.

[1779] So that average 20 nominations a season.

[1780] And I imagine they grew.

[1781] I don't think the first few seasons before people were at dinner.

[1782] you're right.

[1783] It was getting the big boys.

[1784] So number three is ER.

[1785] Then cheers.

[1786] Then mad men.

[1787] Yeah, that one was sucking on them.

[1788] It was.

[1789] I forgot.

[1790] Then the Sopranos.

[1791] Okay.

[1792] Then dancing with the stars.

[1793] I'll do top ten.

[1794] Seven dancing with the stars.

[1795] Tied with the stars.

[1796] MASH.

[1797] Okay.

[1798] Number nine, Frazier.

[1799] Or as Lori would say, Fraser.

[1800] Yep.

[1801] And then 10 .30 Rock.

[1802] 11 Simpsons.

[1803] Oh, I'm shocked.

[1804] That's not way higher.

[1805] Higher up.

[1806] Same.

[1807] That's enough Emmy Talk.

[1808] What was the other fact?

[1809] That was it.

[1810] Remember I said the other fact actually wasn't a fact?

[1811] It was my Exorcist video.

[1812] Oh, okay.

[1813] Okay.

[1814] So it was more a to do list.

[1815] Yeah.

[1816] This go around.

[1817] Yeah.

[1818] It was.

[1819] Well, I love you.

[1820] It was so great to see you.

[1821] And I'm glad I got an update on that because I was quite curious where you were at.

[1822] Yes.

[1823] And then we'll talk again soon in a little bit.

[1824] Absolutely.

[1825] Okay.

[1826] Bye.

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