Jason Mantzoukas

[0] Hello, hello.

[1] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2] I'm Dax Shepard.

[3] And across from me is Madagabhadman.

[4] Hello.

[5] Hello, miniature mouse.

[6] Today we're going to have a gentleman on by the name of Jason Manzukas.

[7] Funny, funny Jason Manzukas.

[8] He's one of your all -time favorites.

[9] He's so good.

[10] I've seen him do improv maybe six or 17 billion times.

[11] And it blows me away every time.

[12] He's incredible.

[13] And from day one of starting this podcast, you've been saying we have to get Manzuka.

[14] hunt.

[15] I met him doing baby mama some 14 years ago or whatever that was.

[16] And he was on the league.

[17] He's on Brooklyn 9 -9.

[18] He's on Kristen's show as Janet's weird boyfriend she created.

[19] He's unbelievable on that.

[20] He's on everything.

[21] He's on everything.

[22] And he's one of the more interesting, hysterical guests we've ever had.

[23] So you guys are going to love Jason Manzoukis.

[24] I know it.

[25] So enjoy.

[26] Also, guys, some tickets are still available for our show in Santa New Mexico, April 20th, at the Lensick Performing Arts Center.

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[33] So Jason, welcome to The Attic.

[34] Guys, thank you for having me. I want to applaud a couple things right out of the gates, which...

[35] Let's go.

[36] One, Jason just drove here and he parked in the dirt.

[37] That was not hard for him.

[38] Now, here's the...

[39] I will say this.

[40] Okay.

[41] I...

[42] It was easy for me to imagine it.

[43] because your engineer's car was already parked that way.

[44] Uh -huh.

[45] And I said to him, I said, should I pull up there next to you?

[46] Right.

[47] He said, yes.

[48] Okay, well, don't take away from these compliments.

[49] You know what?

[50] I just don't want him to wrap me out later.

[51] Like, you know, it wasn't that hard.

[52] That's very big of you.

[53] And then second, because I got here right after you.

[54] And I was on with my mom.

[55] Normally I would have jumped right out of the car and greeted you and hugged you and things.

[56] But I was on with my mom, my dear mom.

[57] How is she?

[58] She's fantastic.

[59] Fantastic.

[60] In fact, she just, her cholesterol came back way lower than it had been.

[61] Great.

[62] Congratulations.

[63] What is she doing?

[64] I need to get mine down.

[65] You won't, don't get bummed out by this.

[66] But sincerely, her husband passed about five months ago and she's no longer eating like him.

[67] Yeah.

[68] Yeah.

[69] I think that was her big conclusion.

[70] Oh, that's interesting.

[71] Because she was on the verge of going on medicine for it and she didn't want to do that.

[72] Yeah, I'm on it.

[73] I just did.

[74] I just did.

[75] Do you know.

[76] To her baby.

[77] Yeah.

[78] And some people experience their muscles hurt when they're on it.

[79] Luckily, for me, no problem.

[80] No. My muscles hurt just because I get them so shredded.

[81] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[82] Because I'm working so hard at the gym.

[83] Just like crushing.

[84] Yeah.

[85] Just like getting that muscle milk, just pumping that pump.

[86] Uh -huh.

[87] Getting that like that really vainy vascular.

[88] Vascularity.

[89] Yeah.

[90] I'm just like crushing it.

[91] But generally when I bump into you at the gym, you're leaping up on the really tall boxes with weights on your.

[92] I'm one of those guys that walks around with those weight vests, those vests that you can put different weights in.

[93] Yes.

[94] And then I just, I mostly just jump up and down on box.

[95] That's the whole workout.

[96] And I scream the whole time.

[97] Well, it's fucking working.

[98] You're diesel to the max.

[99] Thank you.

[100] Thank you also for letting me like strip down while we do this.

[101] Yeah.

[102] Now the second thing was, because I was in my car and I didn't greet you, you just walked right up the stairs to the attic.

[103] Oh, he did?

[104] Yes, he knew exactly where to go.

[105] Wow.

[106] You're in a rare category we've had like three people who could do that that's what i said like wandering around the grounds yes they they seem to park two miles away i don't know why like people arrive here in a deep sweat like a big sheen and then they just kind of circle the property but but i observed all this and i thought you know what jason competent human being that's before i even talked to him come here to do guys fuck around no yeah clearly i came here to park get up the steps sit put the cans on and Start the gap.

[107] Also, punctual, you beat me here.

[108] He was 15 minutes early, which also, that was my third monarchy.

[109] I was told to be.

[110] I was told to be here at 245.

[111] Who told you that?

[112] Your people lied to you.

[113] You know what?

[114] I won't disagree with you.

[115] I am represented by liars.

[116] Yep.

[117] Well, you know what this tells me is that you're habitually late and they've discovered they have to lie to you.

[118] I think that's actually probably true.

[119] Now, when you make that connection, do you then go, oh, so I really, I've got 10 more minutes like no don't you get ahead of them oh i will forget again i will forget next time they do it to me yes that uh that they trick me at times yeah uh because of that if you ever been in a war with uh the ads on a movie or a tv show define a war okay well in my version it's very subtle and passive aggressive so they'll bring me in an hour and a half early and they do that three or four times in row and i go cool no problem so i just know i'm going to come 45 minutes late every day yeah still 45 minutes early and then they adjust and then it just becomes an escalating war of like I go a different way with it okay I do this if they do that to me a couple of times if it's like they call me in and I'm sitting there for hours right and it's like it seems to be like habitual they're just calling us in blah blah blah I will then start to text before I leave the house to say are you sure you need me right right are you sure this is still my time yes uh you know uh I I might be running a little late.

[120] And if they're like, no problem, take your time.

[121] Back to back.

[122] Okay, God, I'm going to snoo.

[123] Stay at the snoo.

[124] Right.

[125] You're hearing this and you're going, what a bunch of brats?

[126] I'll add this.

[127] They're giving you a piece of paper the night before, and it lists all the scenes they're going to shoot before yours.

[128] And you also know when they're bringing in the actors in those scenes.

[129] So you go in the greatest case scenario, there's no way they're filming this four -page scene in 22 minutes.

[130] Yes, yes.

[131] Well, we're all here at the same time.

[132] Yes.

[133] And now I'm just like chilling.

[134] Also, are you a big hair?

[135] very valuable time.

[136] My time is very valuable.

[137] Yes, it is.

[138] I could be podcasting.

[139] You could be podcasting.

[140] And I'm not to anticipate your next question.

[141] I take like 10 minutes in hair and makeup.

[142] For the most part, they just look at me and are like, yep, you look the version of crazy.

[143] We want you to look.

[144] You look exactly.

[145] Go ahead.

[146] Yes.

[147] On the off chance that I do have something to do, like in the past, I've had to have my hair straightened or something like that.

[148] Have you done that?

[149] I have.

[150] Okay.

[151] That will then actually take longer and be more of a production, which is fun.

[152] Um, but, uh, but for the most part, I'm like, in and out in 10 minutes.

[153] And what did you get your hair straightened for?

[154] Uh, a couple of things.

[155] Primarily a character that I played on Kroll's sketch show called, uh, Eagle Wing, who was one of the male jigilos.

[156] Okay.

[157] And so they would straighten and style my hair like, like against my face really dramatically.

[158] Sure.

[159] And I wore all like women's clothing.

[160] Okay, great.

[161] Like drapey, flowy, because that was like the version of a jigolo that I was.

[162] It was very funny.

[163] But I would then forget, I would then be wrapped.

[164] I would forget my hair was straightened and I would go and get coffee or go to Gelson's and see people just do double takes at me. And I'd be like, oh, right, I look super crazy right now.

[165] Well, and to that point, let's just publicly celebrate Will Forte.

[166] I mean, the fact that he did a whole season of Last Man on Earth with half of a beard.

[167] Yep.

[168] Everything half.

[169] And had to travel throughout life.

[170] Oh, yeah.

[171] The rest of his days and nights were spent with half of hair.

[172] Yes.

[173] And also, I think it was Mike Sherr was telling us that he like just happened to sit down on a flight.

[174] And he turned to his right.

[175] And Will was next to him flying in New York.

[176] And he had the side that had a beard.

[177] So they're just kind of talking for a minute.

[178] And then Will eventually turned to look at him.

[179] And he almost, you know, had a heart attack.

[180] Oh, that's great.

[181] What a great reveal.

[182] Yes.

[183] And I was thinking like, you're going through.

[184] through TSA with half of a beard.

[185] Yeah.

[186] You look as crazy as a human could look.

[187] And if you don't know, he's a comedian, you're getting patted down.

[188] Oh, yeah.

[189] Yeah.

[190] I get patted down with a full beard.

[191] If he's not getting patted down, there's a big problem.

[192] That's also a good point.

[193] Thank you, Monica.

[194] They should pat down a guy with half a beer, getting on a flight to New York.

[195] I had a guy once when my beard was really big, I had a TSA agent because I was getting the full pat down.

[196] And his older boss came over and said to him, Like in his ear, he goes, make sure you check his beard.

[197] Oh, oh, my God.

[198] And so the guy to like feel all the way through all of the, like, from front to back side to side through my beard.

[199] Oh, my goodness.

[200] Did you kind of like it?

[201] Well, right.

[202] I came.

[203] We are still together.

[204] Well, yes, because I went straight to in elementary school.

[205] They would come check for lice.

[206] The moms is one of my most unethical moms.

[207] moments in life is the moms would volunteer.

[208] They'd come in there, be about five of the women working their way through the classroom.

[209] And they had those really long cue tips.

[210] I don't even know where you buy them.

[211] And they'd sift through your hair looking for lice.

[212] And then the next mom would come to me and say, have you been done?

[213] And I would say, no. And I'd have all five moms look at my hair.

[214] I loved it.

[215] Oh, all I want, the feeling that I find to be the most relaxing feeling, like that I would rather get instead of a massage or something like that is.

[216] someone like scratching my head.

[217] We call it hair play.

[218] My family called it nicing.

[219] Oh, I'm nicing your head.

[220] Oh, I like that.

[221] Or I'm nicing your arm.

[222] But that to me is absolutely like Pavlovian kind of like, power down.

[223] Euphoria and calmness.

[224] Yeah, so Monica was on a trip with her girlfriends to Denver two weekends ago or something.

[225] Great.

[226] So I was texting with Monica while she was in Denver.

[227] Yep.

[228] And she goes, hey, got a run, about to do hairplay and massage with, what was the friend's name?

[229] My friend Gina.

[230] With Gina, hair play and massage.

[231] And I thought to myself like, God, I know Monica really well, this sounds sexual.

[232] Yeah, that sounds like, I'll be honest.

[233] That sounds like a porn category.

[234] Yeah, yeah.

[235] You could click on a porn search engine.

[236] If such a thing were to exist, which I can only assume it does.

[237] If not, I'll invent it.

[238] Yeah.

[239] I'm happy to.

[240] It says so much.

[241] Hairplay and massage.

[242] Now, is that something that you and Gina are like, hey, before we go out later, should we do hairplay and massage?

[243] No. So we've been friends since sixth grade.

[244] I don't remember how it started, but at some point we started during sleepovers, giving each other massages.

[245] And then playing with each other's hair and taking turns doing this back and forth.

[246] Great.

[247] Just like, keep telling this story just slower.

[248] Yes, I know.

[249] You're rushing through it.

[250] Just like slower and like, let's just throw some music under this.

[251] Let's just throw some, like, real chill music.

[252] Yeah, so we would do that.

[253] And then we just have continued to do that for the rest of our lives.

[254] Great.

[255] And it's at night.

[256] It's before bed.

[257] I mean, again, even that's when most sexual activity happens right before bed.

[258] But yeah, the thing about it, too, is if you don't start that in sixth grade, like you and I may become close.

[259] Like, I like you already.

[260] This could develop into something.

[261] There will be no point in our future where I go, you fuck, you want to do some hair play?

[262] Before we go to bed?

[263] Yeah, yeah.

[264] Before or after massage.

[265] I'd love to do hair playing massage before we go to bed, Dad.

[266] And this is like a, by the way, it was like a two -hour ordeal.

[267] Whoa, you guys do it for two?

[268] How do you, let me ask you, I have real questions.

[269] Yeah, yeah.

[270] How do you stay awake so long?

[271] I would think you would just, like, whoever goes first, I would think the person would just fall asleep within 10 minutes.

[272] That would be so unethical for the other person.

[273] Oh, really?

[274] So there's reciprocity.

[275] You have to.

[276] I would need to go first.

[277] So let me just say that.

[278] I would have to go first in this scenario.

[279] I normally go second.

[280] You do?

[281] Because I like to be the last one to receive.

[282] Well, no, right.

[283] Yeah.

[284] I would want to receive last.

[285] It's not unlike oral sex with your partner.

[286] It's best for you to do it first.

[287] Get it over with.

[288] No, not even to get it over with.

[289] You're horny.

[290] You're really horny.

[291] And then my turn.

[292] Not me. Me, me, me. You're enjoying it as the giver.

[293] because you're so horny.

[294] Yes.

[295] But if you get it first and you have an orgasm, you're kind of like you're thinking about what's on TV.

[296] Oh, yes.

[297] Oh, absolutely.

[298] Did I turn off all the lights downstairs?

[299] Is it April 15th we file taxes?

[300] So it's just best if I'm like, you know, yeah, anyways.

[301] So you were saying this, you're saying you would go first giving.

[302] Yes, I would want to give first.

[303] Yes.

[304] So I could stay hungry.

[305] Sure.

[306] Yeah.

[307] You got it.

[308] You need that engine.

[309] You need that momentum to drive you forward.

[310] You absolutely do.

[311] I'm going to get something after this.

[312] That's right.

[313] And like the better I do right now, probably the better mine will get.

[314] So if I already got one and it was so -so, guess what?

[315] You're getting a so -so one back.

[316] Oh, yeah.

[317] Oh, absolutely.

[318] It keeps you honest.

[319] To answer your question, we talk.

[320] We talk during you.

[321] That's when you're just like catching up, chit -chatting.

[322] Oh, that's sweet.

[323] Okay, I get that.

[324] Would you be opposed to like next time you guys do this?

[325] And I'm being sincere.

[326] Film?

[327] Yeah, just a little bit for Instagram.

[328] Or just for like, for us.

[329] Just for personal.

[330] So we know.

[331] how to do it.

[332] Just start a text, Jane.

[333] What's that, what's that look like?

[334] Are you guys wearing like footsy pajamas?

[335] Like, yeah, I picture like Greece.

[336] A very sixth grade element.

[337] Yes.

[338] Pig tails and like, like the girls in Greece when they're all like gossiping.

[339] They're wearing like, tell me more.

[340] Tell me more.

[341] Did she rub all your hair?

[342] Yeah.

[343] There's singalongs and our shirts are off and.

[344] Uh -huh.

[345] Oh, whoa.

[346] Okay.

[347] It's chilly, I imagine.

[348] Keep it cool in the room.

[349] No. Our shirts are on.

[350] But we do back scratch under the shirt.

[351] Oh, my, this is getting crazy.

[352] I'm going to stop talking about it.

[353] No, no. I think that's, um, see, and I, I, because I will delineate between over the shirt scratching and under the shirt scratching as well.

[354] Yeah.

[355] And there's something about like, first starting to scratch over the shirt and then going under feels like, whoa, this just got better.

[356] Intensity raises.

[357] Yep.

[358] It really wakes up all those nerve endings.

[359] Now, I want to go back to TSA for you because this kind of parallels the fact that you, you You've many times in your career have played Middle Eastern.

[360] I have.

[361] Let's just say you're a hundred of things.

[362] You're a hundred percent Greek, though, right?

[363] I am Greek.

[364] Yes.

[365] Both my parents are Greek.

[366] Yeah.

[367] And are they from Greece?

[368] My dad's from Greece.

[369] My dad, although he came here when he was a kid.

[370] Okay.

[371] He was born in Greece.

[372] What part?

[373] He was born in like northern central Greece, a village with like no electricity.

[374] Oh, wow.

[375] His father, like, pushed a cart with vegetables around, fruits and vegetables.

[376] It was like a very, you know, it felt like from back in time.

[377] Well, the flashbacks in Godfather.

[378] Yes, very similar.

[379] Yeah.

[380] But for Greece.

[381] Yeah.

[382] And then after World War II, Greece fell into a civil war that was communists versus the government.

[383] And that precipitated a lot of people leaving Greece.

[384] There was a mass exodus.

[385] And so my dad's family left then.

[386] And mom is second.

[387] Greek as well.

[388] Yeah, but born here.

[389] Her family's from like Southern Greece, still mainland, but like Southern Greece, the Peloponnese down below.

[390] Okay.

[391] Like more what you consider or think of as like outgoing gregarious kind of Greeks.

[392] Yes.

[393] One of my best friends, Andrew Panay, is from Cyprus.

[394] Yeah.

[395] And they call him Scipiates?

[396] Cypriot.

[397] Cipriot.

[398] He is a Cypriot.

[399] He's a Cypriot.

[400] Yes.

[401] And I am endlessly fascinated by his Cypriotness.

[402] Oh, yeah.

[403] That's a, because that's a really interesting one because there's such, it is like a conflicted place.

[404] Is it?

[405] Yeah.

[406] Because there were people, it's an island off of, right?

[407] Correct.

[408] So I'm assuming they've like a mix of different ethnicities maybe there?

[409] It is.

[410] Now, I might, I almost want to look this up because I think part of Cyprus is like contested land.

[411] Maybe with Turkey.

[412] Okay.

[413] Oh, man, I'm going to be wrong in the Greeks.

[414] You know what Monica will fact check.

[415] Yeah.

[416] Oh, fact check.

[417] Yeah.

[418] You know, Monica fact check, bad, if you don't mind.

[419] Isn't it?

[420] It's so nice.

[421] It's liberating, right?

[422] You can say whatever you want.

[423] Boy, if I've gotten it wrong, I'm going to have to come on and apologize to, like, a lot of Greeks.

[424] You'll hear about it.

[425] Did you have that really, like, Andrew's family is so tight?

[426] I don't know that I've observed another group that has such a tight family.

[427] Very tight.

[428] Very tight.

[429] Growing up, my family only really hung out with the rest of my family.

[430] Sure.

[431] You know what I mean?

[432] Like, I didn't go.

[433] My parents, my parents certainly had friends, but the people we really hung out with were, like, my aunts and uncles and my cousins and all that kind of stuff.

[434] Yeah.

[435] And they all lived in and around, you know, within, I'd say, 40 minutes of where we lived.

[436] Everybody did.

[437] Everybody still does for the most part.

[438] And how was the Greek Orthodox being observed at all?

[439] You know, barely.

[440] Barely.

[441] You know, barely in my individual, in my nuclear family, you know, like my parents, like a couple of times, we would go to church, you know.

[442] I could, like, there were periods of, like, when I was, when we were young.

[443] No, I think there was just, like, they, maybe they felt like, we should.

[444] should bring them to church you know and but the the thing was like everything was in greek we didn't know greek right so it was just a lot of kind of theater in a way it was just a lot of performance that i just wasn't kind of i didn't have much access to yeah well as i didn't understand the words and so and we didn't go for very even if you had you know i've i've been through the version where you can understand what they're saying and it doesn't help much it's worse than shakespeare when you're eight i mean i don't know what they're saying way worse than shakespeare when you're in the seating.

[445] I don't understand the wooden seating.

[446] It's crazy.

[447] It is.

[448] What are we doing guys?

[449] I think everyone, it's like Let's get some, let's get some armchairs in there.

[450] Honestly, if you got, if you stock that place with lazy boys.

[451] I mean, lazy boy church.

[452] The Catholics are going to have to do something.

[453] Yeah, because I just again watch.

[454] The size of the people?

[455] Well, I have no opinion on the size of them.

[456] I'm just saying, not Catholics in general, I'm just saying the size of the people in our country is getting large.

[457] It's pretty big.

[458] It's pretty big.

[459] But just on Sunday again, on 60.

[460] minutes you get another thing and i think in bostonish area anyways they just can't stop molesting people yes it's incredible it can't stop won't stop the thing on sunday was like a 160 uh oh god it's bonkers and i'm just like how are they gonna keep this a thing here was my other observation if if if it had been revealed that there were 160 Scientologists that had molested kids oh yeah we would shut it down we'd be talking about it constantly.

[461] And can you imagine?

[462] And we would end it.

[463] And the Catholic Church has like systemically not just like molested thousands of people, but like worked tirelessly to cover it up.

[464] Pay off.

[465] To like they've behaved in ways that make, you know, everything else that we find so insane about Scientology.

[466] Not that I'm some sort of Scientology.

[467] No, no, no, nor am I. Like, again, where is Shelley Muscovich?

[468] We don't know.

[469] But the point being, we are focused on these things when it is Scientology or when it is anything is like a newer, yeah, or it's something that we don't know about a lot about.

[470] But they're like, you know, like I'm a devout Howard Stern listener.

[471] Oh, me too.

[472] And Stern is like everybody's stories are fake.

[473] Everybody's stories make no sense.

[474] He's like, why are we saying like, oh, Scientologist, it's so crazy they believe in there's aliens or whatever.

[475] Is it any crazier than the Christians who believe all of these magical things happened?

[476] Or is it any of these kind of, any of these myths or stories that we all ascribe to?

[477] That's my exact point.

[478] And I even argue far more plausible that there are aliens than a man who is his son and then this third entity, the Holy Ghost.

[479] If you're just, plausibility -wise, it's actually...

[480] Absolutely.

[481] I mean, we somehow tolerate an institution that seems to be endlessly guilty of this.

[482] And, like, it is, it is ceaseless.

[483] Like, it's not like, we, you, you just have a story just now.

[484] Yeah, Sunday.

[485] Sunday.

[486] Like, 160 more.

[487] New.

[488] Like, that's what we're up to.

[489] Why do we think it's so rampant in the Catholic church versus, like, all these other.

[490] They don't, because of the marriage stuff.

[491] Yeah, I guess.

[492] Like, in, in the Orthodox church, priests can marry and have families.

[493] You know, it's not.

[494] But they don't have to be celibate.

[495] And then there becomes like a chicken and the egg debate, which is either does the vow of celibacy then manifest itself in this pedophilia behavior or do people who know they're never going to function as a married person are drawn there as a refuge?

[496] Either way, it's not ideal.

[497] No. And systemic changes need to be made on a level that they don't seem to be willing to.

[498] engage with is the thing yeah they're they seem to be a little slow to rant but but at any rate so um did you grow up in the city or in one of the suburbs of boston no i grew up like seven miles north like suburban boston in a town called nahant that is the smallest town of massachusetts it's a one square mile island oh wow off the coast of a town called lynn that is connected by like a two and a half mile causeway oh wow yeah and are you like a kid of the sea i'm not you're not i'm not i'm not I mean, I did.

[499] I fished and we went out on boats and stuff, but, like, I'm not a good swimmer.

[500] I have, like, really bad asthma.

[501] And so I have, like, genuine fear of the sea, because everybody would be like, let's swim out to Egg Rock.

[502] And Egg Rock was like, to me, seemed to be a mile and a half away.

[503] And I was like, no, I'm going to die trying to swim to that rock out there.

[504] There's no way.

[505] So I'm not strong in the water.

[506] Are you a hypochondriand?

[507] Yeah, yeah.

[508] Oh, yeah.

[509] You guys.

[510] I definitely thought I had rab dough all week long.

[511] What is rap, do I want to know?

[512] Yeah, you do.

[513] It's a muscle fatigue.

[514] It's what happens if you, like, work out your muscles too hard.

[515] Oh, and they turn to gel.

[516] Something, like, really bad happens.

[517] You have to go to the hospital.

[518] Something with kidney failure.

[519] You're like muscles, like, why they get into your bloodstream and then you get renal failure.

[520] Oh, yeah, okay.

[521] Why did you, what were you doing?

[522] By the way, she didn't do anything.

[523] I've been with her for the last week.

[524] Yes, I worked out one time.

[525] Oh, but really hard.

[526] I guess so hard.

[527] My legs have been so sore, and I was like, This doesn't feel right.

[528] Something feels extra bad and extra sore.

[529] It should be over by now.

[530] I definitely have rhabdo.

[531] Did you know about rhabdo or did you Google those symptoms and rabdo came up?

[532] One of our friends just had it.

[533] Oh.

[534] So it's in my brain.

[535] You've got a friend who had rabdo?

[536] But let me add.

[537] Is it contagious?

[538] Can I?

[539] It's not viral.

[540] Genuine question.

[541] Has he been on this couch?

[542] Now, were you Greek enough looking as a kid that it was an issue?

[543] I was.

[544] I was because I moved to, we moved to that town and it was a very white town.

[545] And I don't know how to tiptoe around this subject, but I am white.

[546] No, no, I was just going to say, and I'll say where I'm from, it seems to be pretty racist or at least when I was a kid.

[547] And I've found at times some pockets of Boston to be a little.

[548] I don't know how to say that without offending anyone in Boston, but.

[549] Oh, no. I mean, Boston is like, Boston is a tough town.

[550] Boston is, I love Boston, and I have like a real fondness for it, but there is an element, which is it really has, you are almost always on the verge of getting into a fight, apropos of nothing.

[551] Absolutely.

[552] Always.

[553] Also observe that.

[554] Yep.

[555] It doesn't matter where or when everybody thinks a fight's about to happen.

[556] Uh -huh.

[557] You know, like it's about to jump off.

[558] Yep.

[559] And there really is, like, you know, talk about like systemic racism and class problems and all this kind of stuff.

[560] Boston really is like Massachusetts, Boston, these are like real liberal strongholds that have like very serious like, you know, you've got the busing crisis of the 70s, you've got all this stuff that is a lot of race stuff, a lot of like really kind of sketchy history that is still around.

[561] Well, and it remained Boston is one of the more segregated cities I'll go to in the country where it's like you still have these really strong pockets, right?

[562] you have Charleston, right?

[563] And it's mostly Irish white guys.

[564] And then, again, North, the, what is it?

[565] The North End is mostly Italian.

[566] You have all these pockets that seem still pretty segregated or modular.

[567] Very much.

[568] And also a lot of underprivileged white people.

[569] So you have some socioeconomic stuff.

[570] Absolutely.

[571] I think any time you have very limited resources in different groups that are identifiable, you get kind of the, it's very productive.

[572] Oh, yeah.

[573] Oh, no. And there's a lot of, it's a tough town.

[574] It's like a lot of angry people, a lot of tough people.

[575] It was a really interesting time to grow up in and it's a fascinating time to go back to now.

[576] Yeah.

[577] As an adult.

[578] So I was doing this movie there, the judge, and my driver, I fell in love with this dude.

[579] He had just gotten out of prison like nine months before something.

[580] Jimmy and I was obsessed with him and we'd have these really long drives and I slowly found out what he'd been in prison for and all this stuff.

[581] And then I found out he was from Charleston.

[582] Yeah.

[583] And he had been in a crew there that robbed armored cars and all of those.

[584] So I became obsessed with Charlestown.

[585] And then I decided on a Sunday I was going to go there and buy a T -shirt from this liquor store.

[586] I'm there and I'm looking at the shirts and I want to buy Kristen when she's back at the hotel.

[587] I'm on FaceTime with her.

[588] Yeah.

[589] And I'm like, okay, honey, here's, do you want this one or this one?

[590] And right at that moment, this dude, he looked like a soccer hooligan.

[591] He was like 210 neck tattoos, shaved head.

[592] He cruises buying.

[593] He's like, ah.

[594] fucking I know you I fucking hey can I get a picture and I go and I'm on with Chris and I go oh yeah when you come out dude let's get a picture and he I don't even notice that he's offended oh he walks in one minute later he comes out he's like you know what man fuck you fuck you fucking cunt wife and I was like my cunt wife and Kristen's still on I'm like what motherfucker the dude who's selling the t -shirts who's like 70 gets between us were screaming my wife screaming walk away this crazy thing the dude who's selling the t -shirts of Kristen at home like watching it's like oh i'm going to watch my husband die now is where i watch my husband die it turned into blare witch because i've now forgotten she's even a part of this whole thing and i'm screw you can't fucking call my wife and then the seven -year -old the best my favorite moment and it was like one is like if someone had written the script you'd be so proud it got this specific as the seven -year -old guy comes to get between us he goes nobody's getting fucking stabbed like that's amazing like that's what he thought was next is a stabbing I bet that guy knows the other guy, and he knows that's a stabbing guy.

[595] That's part two of the story is I tell my driver, Jimmy.

[596] I'm like, so Jimmy, yesterday I went to your hometown, had this experience, and he goes, hmm, I'd be real interested to know who this guy is.

[597] And I'm like, no, no, no, I don't want you to.

[598] He's like, no, no, I'm very, very curious about who this guy is.

[599] I know, that was Mikey who runs that T -SER and stuff.

[600] And I go, no, no, I don't want.

[601] And sure enough, by lunch, he knew who the guy was.

[602] Really?

[603] So I find that guy's in a fucking halfway house down the street.

[604] That's what's going on with this guy.

[605] That's not the neighborhood, you know, whatever.

[606] Wow.

[607] But it really delivered for.

[608] That's amazing.

[609] That is, that actual transaction is a perfect Boston moment, which is he asked for something.

[610] You said yes, but on his time.

[611] Yes, yes.

[612] Yes, but on my time.

[613] And he was like, that is just like, you know what?

[614] Fuck you.

[615] What do you think you're fucking better than me?

[616] Yeah.

[617] What are you?

[618] You know what?

[619] I fucking.

[620] I said I fucking liked you And that you were fucking funny And you don't you why You don't have fucking time To take a picture with me Yes You fuck I will fuck you up Do you have that instinct To like fight?

[621] Never Even growing Even being around No No I never That was never my I don't have that gear I don't have that gear I think you have it or you don't Yeah my gear is always To undercut Tension and to Try and undo Whatever is going on But back to your childhood Did you get any shit for being Greek?

[622] I got shit for being other.

[623] Right, right.

[624] Whether that was because we had just moved to town, whether it was because we didn't go to either of the two churches in town or whatever it was, the shit and the bullying I got was for being somehow other, whatever that is, you know, and all the kind of traditional name calling and all that kind of stuff.

[625] Yeah, amasculation as correct.

[626] Yes, yes, correct.

[627] And what was your response?

[628] Was it to try to just?

[629] be funny always jokes yeah and how did you do in school were you good at it i was fine at it okay i had i tried harder i would have been good at it but i didn't i had no love for academics or any of that so i did i got by yeah i was like a bees student right now i got bees i did okay on my cts i went to a good college but none of it like i wrote a thesis in college for to graduate with honors right and I went to my thesis defense where I have to kind of present it to my advisors and my advisor said Jason his first line Jason you're not a great scholar but thank God your gifts and graces lie elsewhere so we can't give you credit for this oh they denied it oh yeah they denied it in heart like the first thing he said to me was let's put this aside let's pretend like this didn't happen we we can't let you graduate with honors this is terrible and I was like Larry, you're not wrong.

[630] I wrote it in the last 10 days, and I shouldn't have been writing it the last three months.

[631] You know, it was terrible.

[632] Stay tuned for more armchair experts, if you dare.

[633] We've all been there.

[634] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[635] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[636] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[637] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[638] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[639] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[640] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[641] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[642] What's up guys?

[643] This is your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good.

[644] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[645] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[646] And I don't mean just friends.

[647] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[648] The list goes on.

[649] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[650] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[651] But you discovered drumming in high school.

[652] Is it safe to say your first love is really music more than...

[653] I played music, yeah, all through...

[654] I started playing drums.

[655] I started taking drum lessons when I was like 10, 10, 11 years old probably.

[656] In marching band style?

[657] Yeah, first I started playing like, yeah, or classic.

[658] like orchestral like snare drumming like pieces like uh reading music and blah blah you have the little little leather pad you're practicing then i got first i got a pad then i got a snare drum and then once my parents were like okay you're serious enough about it i got a drum set and that was huge yeah what what age did you get the drum kit probably 12 13 and did you just somewhere oh that was that was it that was like everything who were you idolizing can i guess who your favorite was Was it Stewart?

[659] Stuart Copeland from the police is absolutely number one.

[660] Like at that era is absolutely the best drummer to me. Stuart Copeland, Stuart Copeland's high hat, like I remember hearing Peter Gabriel's Red Rain on radio and being like, that Stewart Copeland playing that high hat.

[661] And I bought that record, looked, Stuart Copeland is only playing the high hat.

[662] Oh, you're kidding.

[663] It's such a distinct high hat sound.

[664] He was the best.

[665] I loved, I loved him.

[666] then when I got older in high school and was playing in bands, I played in like cover bands and bands that were like, you know, so the drummers that I loved were like Stephen Perkins from Jane's Addiction.

[667] Oh, uh -huh.

[668] Jimmy Chamberlain from Smashing Pumpkins.

[669] Like, they were great rock drummers.

[670] But then I got super, I got heavy into playing jazz for most of the rest of like high school, college and stuff.

[671] Um, so what's interesting to me is you, um, you get out of college.

[672] and then you go and you live abroad for a while.

[673] But counterintuitive places.

[674] Yeah, I live in, it's all based on a project that I'm doing.

[675] In college, I signed up for, it's called a Watson Fellowship, like your college kind of has to nominate you, blah, blah, blah.

[676] And it's, they give you money to go and do a research project that is like not your field of academic research, that is just something you are obsessed with.

[677] Oh, that's great.

[678] And so I pitched them a project that was music -based, but also I was a religion major, so also religion -based.

[679] So you weren't really raised very religious, but you were drawn to studying religion?

[680] It was like a comparative religion program, so it was like I studied all other religions, which I found very interesting.

[681] It wasn't theology.

[682] Right, you were more interested in maybe history in a sense.

[683] And the why of, you know, like that was very interesting to me. Like, you know, some of it was, of course, like, the history and understanding, like, whether it was the Old Testament or New Testament or whatever, blah, blah, blah.

[684] But a lot of it was just, like, the why, like the sociology of why we are religious or why these things, whatever.

[685] Yeah, or I even remember in some Western Civ class I had, someone pointed out something amazing.

[686] I think I learned more about it again in a subsequent anthroclass, but the environment people are in and what an impact that has on the type of, religion they create.

[687] So for instance, the Old Testament in Judaism is from Mesopotamia area.

[688] They're between the Tigris and the Euphrates.

[689] It would flood all the time.

[690] So they lived in constant threat of flood, whereas at the exact same time, you have the Egyptians who are living on a fertile crescent.

[691] They live on the Nile.

[692] It's very predictable.

[693] They don't ever have these big calamities.

[694] So their God was very kind of benevolent.

[695] They didn't have to make a lot of sacrifices, personal Sacrifice.

[696] Like a random catastrophe wasn't going to befall them.

[697] Yeah.

[698] Like a flood or something.

[699] Like maybe.

[700] And their God reflects that.

[701] Like it's not one that they're afraid of that they have to constantly appease.

[702] And when you, for me, when I learned that, was like, oh, it's so human.

[703] Absolutely.

[704] All of this is so human.

[705] Yeah.

[706] We create this thing.

[707] These are just stories that continue to get passed down.

[708] And then a couple people just started to be like, oh, we should put a bunch of these in a book.

[709] Yeah.

[710] Yeah.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Because I heard John telling it.

[713] Yeah, he didn't.

[714] And, you know, his story kind of lines up with this story I heard from this other guy.

[715] Yeah.

[716] Da -da -da -da, you know, and it gets to be like, and then you've just got stories that get kind of codified and passed on.

[717] And then everybody just starts to be like, yep, no, that's what we're doing.

[718] We're just doing that.

[719] And it is so, do you ever just marvel at the notion that, like, they happened at the only time they could have?

[720] Like, so they, writing's brand new.

[721] Well, back then you could write anything, and it's going to have some kind of stickiness.

[722] because it's the only option, right?

[723] Sure.

[724] And also, but also, like, it's a time when it's all oral.

[725] It's all, everything is, you know, until, you know, years and years and years later when people can learn to read and learn to print and all this kind of stuff.

[726] These are just, like, traditions that are like, oh, the, the, that town has a book, that church has one of the books.

[727] Right.

[728] And that guy can read it.

[729] He's going to tell us the whole thing.

[730] Yeah, yeah.

[731] You know, and you just, it's, that was entertainment.

[732] Yeah.

[733] And it was also, like, important.

[734] Sure.

[735] You know, this guy knows how to do this thing and it's important now.

[736] But don't you just think sometimes like, well, there's no way on earth something like that could start now.

[737] Present day.

[738] Like, you couldn't.

[739] It's true.

[740] It's true until you like, on a mass level, I think you're right.

[741] But then everyone's in a while, you will like, and there's been a bunch of like documentaries like a wild, wild country or whatever.

[742] Oh, I love it.

[743] So you, like, I just listened to 30 for 30 just did one about the Bikram yoga guy.

[744] I watched the real sports on him and I couldn't get enough of that guy.

[745] Dude, listen to the podcast.

[746] There's like, it's six episodes long and it's straight crazy.

[747] Oh.

[748] But you're watching people.

[749] And it's modern.

[750] It's contemporary, basically.

[751] Yeah.

[752] And you're watching people fall into a fucking, like, cult of personality type situation with a guy that you're like, this is how it could go.

[753] Yeah.

[754] And sometimes I want.

[755] like the times we are in right now?

[756] Are we going to see another like resurgence of like in the upheaval that is the mid tonight late 60s?

[757] There's a lot of gurus.

[758] There's a lot of people who start amassing followers, start having like cults start to become a big thing.

[759] I'm wondering like are we going to have that start happening again?

[760] I think you'll have a ton of that.

[761] But but I don't think it could ever be ubiquitous the way the other ones.

[762] Only simply in the same way that Johnny Carson, no one will ever have as many viewers as him because he was the only option.

[763] Exactly.

[764] So I just think, but while you said this, it just reminded me that I really want to recommend this to people.

[765] Have you listened to Uncover Escaping Nexium?

[766] No. You fucking love it.

[767] If you liked Wild Wild Country, which I loved.

[768] Wait, it's a podcast or it's a documentary?

[769] It's a podcast.

[770] What you'll love about, especially having studied religion, is to see how, you know, ultimately all these things play on these hardwired things were just so susceptible to.

[771] And a lot of them just being status and our propensity to admire and, worship an alpha, whatever you want to call that alpha, and how they reinforce all that status stuff.

[772] And people, I think, in this business and in this town, are seekers who are looking for people that have answers.

[773] Sure.

[774] Are looking for somebody to, whether it's give them a job, tell them they know how they're going to get a job, like, whatever that is.

[775] That's why I feel like in this business, like a lot of these cults end up in L .A. or like grabbing people from this business because I think it's a lot of kind of seeking behavior.

[776] It's a lot of people who want there to be answers.

[777] I'll say that, yes, we, us dirtbags in this business, one of it is, yeah, we're seekers maybe.

[778] Also, we're arrogant as hell.

[779] And we feel like we're entitled to something very special.

[780] And then when you get here, you're kind of open to anything that would make you special, right?

[781] Oh, yeah.

[782] There's some level of, like, arrogance intertwined.

[783] When you get out here, you have no control over your life.

[784] Everyone's making every decision for you.

[785] So if somebody is saying, I can help you get what you want that starts to feel like I'll never get that.

[786] Or I have even better, which is what a lot of them are, is I have a path for you to get what you want.

[787] Yes.

[788] So just take my classes, do my whatever this thing is, whatever my system is.

[789] Exactly.

[790] And that's very appealing because any other job other than this, there's a pretty well -worn path.

[791] You know, you go get that degree, you start in the mailroom, whatever it is.

[792] Work your way up.

[793] It's an understandable hierarchy.

[794] This is like getting dropped in the middle of the jungle with a machete until success is out there.

[795] There's a hack away.

[796] There's a chest of gold coins somewhere out here.

[797] You probably can find it.

[798] 99 % of you won't.

[799] In two months.

[800] You might find it in two years.

[801] You might never find it.

[802] It's like there is no. And you can't do what Dax did because that's not the same thing.

[803] But you have as different than what he has.

[804] There is no path.

[805] And I'll add to.

[806] it, your ability has very little to do with whether it's almost irrelevant.

[807] And that's the thing that it was such a hard thing to, when like when I taught at UCB or whatever, students or people who would ask me questions or stuff would be like, an enormous part of this business is not just talent.

[808] It is tenacity.

[809] It is drive.

[810] It is ambition.

[811] It is all of these other things because you have to keep moving forward when everything is telling you you're not moving forward.

[812] Stop trying.

[813] Don't bother.

[814] Even if people are like, even though for years, people were like, you're very funny.

[815] I still couldn't get hired.

[816] Oh, yeah, totally.

[817] You know, like I had casting directors be like, you're really funny.

[818] I always call you in, but you're not going to work for a long time.

[819] I can tell you, having been in the groundlings, that of the handful of us that work consistently, with the exception of Melissa McCarthy, who really was the of all of us.

[820] Sure.

[821] You know, there's no really correlation between the talent level and which among us have worked.

[822] It's, oh, yeah, because I can name super talented people.

[823] I remember very vividly, like a real moment of, like, being like, oh, I get it.

[824] Like, pretty early in on UCB, like, I'm going to say, like, maybe 99, 2000.

[825] We'd been doing it a couple of years at that point.

[826] And it was starting to, like, cook.

[827] Stuff was starting to happen.

[828] There was a guy who was, like, really good.

[829] like a really good, talented guy.

[830] And he just bailed.

[831] He just was like, I don't want to do this.

[832] I don't want to, like, keep struggling.

[833] I kind of want a job.

[834] Yeah.

[835] And I was like, what the fuck is this guy doing?

[836] It really blew my mind.

[837] I was like, oh, it's not enough to have the talent to do this.

[838] No. Because look at all these people here who don't have anywhere near the talent that that guy had.

[839] And they are so tenacious.

[840] They are going to drive this thing until they succeed.

[841] Right.

[842] And that is fascinating.

[843] Yeah.

[844] Even I'll just say, too, you can end up on a trajectory.

[845] So Melissa was by far the funniest person I'd ever seen in my life.

[846] Sure.

[847] And she got on Gilmore Girls.

[848] Not being funny.

[849] So it was this very weird thing where it's like she was the only one among us that was making a ton of money, which was awesome.

[850] And she had a house, which was very, but there was some part of me, I was like, this is, this is, this feels weird.

[851] Like, that's not what she does.

[852] Yeah.

[853] And thinking for years, well, that, I guess, even though she's the funniest person alive, that's not going to happen, even though she's at the party.

[854] Like, she has her foot in the door and she's like, she's done it.

[855] Yes.

[856] She's like doing seven years on a show that is well regarded.

[857] And then without bridesmaids, who knows where that all, but then it begs the question, how many Melissa McCarthy's were like that, where they just ended up working, which is great.

[858] Let's say, let's take Melissa McCarthy as a continued example.

[859] does Melissa McCarthy turn into, like, is there inevitably a moment where Melissa McCarthy gets to do the thing she does the best?

[860] Or is there, or does it not happen without Kristen and Annie who knew her from Groundlings, wrote that part for her so that she could do the exact thing that she did best?

[861] You know what I mean?

[862] Like, that's what I always come back to and that's what I'm really grateful about comedy now and the kind of scene that I came up in is everybody not just, like, wants to work with each other, but wants to work with each other for what we do best.

[863] Yeah, yeah.

[864] Wants to, like, let everybody come and be, like, the best version of what they do.

[865] Yes.

[866] And that, and that kind of, that seems like an evolution, by the way.

[867] That, I think so.

[868] Like, we're in a time right now that I think is based on the, the kind of ethos of improv and sketch, which is ensemble and support, less so, like, mercenary, kind of, what I will say is more of a stand -up, you know, stand -up individual versus the audience.

[869] Well, sure.

[870] If you look at when we were growing up, the huge stars were Steve Martin, who was a stand -up, Eddie Murphy, who was a stand -out.

[871] The comedy boom was stand -up comedy is like the most important thing.

[872] Yeah.

[873] You know, it was just so paramount.

[874] Richard Pryor.

[875] And then the idea that, you know, it was also a time when SNL wasn't as relevant.

[876] It's like during those years where Lorne isn't there and all that stuff is going on.

[877] And then, but then I don't know about you guys, but for me, the minute, the minute kids in the hall came on, I was like, now this is very interesting.

[878] This is, this is cool.

[879] Right now something cool is happening.

[880] I loved obviously Saturday Night Live as a kid, but for me, I was at that age that, yeah, when kids in the hall came around, I was like, oh, this is if me and my friends made a comedy show.

[881] Exactly.

[882] It's so weird and niche and, yeah.

[883] And I was like, I want to do this.

[884] Yeah, because I doubt you or I were looking at, you know, Belushi going, yeah, I could be Belushi.

[885] No. That wasn't in the cards for me, but I was looking at some of the guys folly and stuff on kids in the halls.

[886] Like, I think I could do that.

[887] Oh, yeah, 100%.

[888] I at least know that I'm that weird.

[889] Yes, exactly.

[890] And that was what I kind of knew.

[891] Like in high school, junior and senior year, there were variety shows.

[892] And so we wrote sketches for that.

[893] And I remember writing sketches and being like, Ooh, I think my sketches are weird.

[894] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[895] Mine are not, like, broad.

[896] Right.

[897] I think mine are the weirder ones, which I really liked.

[898] And I think part of that was because by then kids in the hall was on, there was, I'd found other weird stuff that I really was, like, responding to, like, British shows, stuff like that was really neat or bizarre.

[899] Yeah.

[900] I was like, this is cool.

[901] This is exciting.

[902] I want to know everything about all this other stuff.

[903] Yeah.

[904] So I'm going to, we're going to get into UCB really quick.

[905] But before that, I want to, you two are on this mission.

[906] You have this grant.

[907] Oh, yeah.

[908] And you go to, um, I go to Morocco, Egypt, Israel, and Turkey.

[909] Okay.

[910] For two years?

[911] Two years.

[912] Not just under two years.

[913] Were you lonely?

[914] Did you have a girlfriend?

[915] I was, boy, it was, it was catastrophically lonely when I landed in Morocco, like, almost fundamentally unprepared, emotionally.

[916] The deal with the grant is we give you money.

[917] The only thing we require is that you cannot return to the United States for one year.

[918] Oh, wow.

[919] You have to stay out.

[920] What?

[921] That's their whole thing.

[922] Their whole thing is we're paying for you to go have this experience.

[923] Submerge yourself.

[924] We don't want you coming home for holidays.

[925] We don't want you coming home to see your family or whatever.

[926] It's probably a good rule.

[927] It is.

[928] Oh, my God.

[929] But I landed in Morocco, and I'm not even kidding, had a complete nervous breakdown.

[930] Sure.

[931] I lost my mind.

[932] You're 22?

[933] Yeah, probably 23, maybe.

[934] I had, you know, high school level French, spoke no Arabic, and was immediately wildly out of my element and overwhelmed.

[935] Because there's also, this grant is not affiliated with anything.

[936] So unlike a Fulbright or anything else, I'm not, I'm not university affiliated.

[937] I have nobody to check in with.

[938] I'm not supposed to, nobody's looking after me. I'm just like, I just get.

[939] there with a backpack and I'm like, all right, here I am.

[940] And you're like James Bonnier's parachuted into like, go find the back.

[941] Yeah, except I'm like, I have to go find the musicians that are making music that is meant to bring them into an ecstatic trance and communicate with God.

[942] That's where I'm at.

[943] And it was really like, I would say a full three weeks of just a nightmare.

[944] Let me add to for the younger listeners, the full breadth of research you could have done was like a four.

[945] Bauter's Travel Guide, too, right?

[946] You have got like a binder paper.

[947] There was no internet at the time, although that's not true.

[948] There was the internet, but there was no, um, nothing on it.

[949] There was nothing on it.

[950] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[951] I could email.

[952] Sure, sure.

[953] I had just gotten my first email address, because it's 1995 when, when I go.

[954] And so there was no, like, you couldn't Google stuff, you couldn't do anything.

[955] There was nothing.

[956] I just was there and I could like call.

[957] And I could go.

[958] And I could places.

[959] And that was it.

[960] And I finally found, I ran into the newly arrived class of the Peace Corps volunteers of that year.

[961] And I met a whole bunch of them.

[962] And one of them was this woman who was like, oh, my station is Marrakesh.

[963] I'm moving to Marrakesh.

[964] I don't want to live alone.

[965] Do you want to be my roommate?

[966] Right.

[967] And I was like, 100 % yes.

[968] And that was like transformative.

[969] Just the idea that every day I could have a normal conversation with someone over coffee or at the end of the day just check in and chat made everything like fall into place.

[970] And I like fully calmed down and then was able to like do everything I set out to do, you know.

[971] Can I just say too, which is really funny about just being human is that like if you're at home and you have all these options, you have all these criteria of who you would be friends with or be roommates with, right?

[972] And then when you find yourself, I've been lonely like that a couple times overseas.

[973] Yeah.

[974] And man, all it takes is you speak English.

[975] I'll be best friends with some.

[976] Let's talk forever.

[977] Yes.

[978] And it really helps you understand like, oh, any human's good.

[979] Oh, yeah.

[980] When you need it.

[981] Oh, and when you are like hungering for that connection, just really just an ordinary conversation can satiate that desire, you know, that's what you need.

[982] It really helps.

[983] It's a good experience to realize how much we need each other.

[984] Oh, yeah.

[985] Because otherwise you could go your whole life without figuring that out.

[986] But you were over there for two years and did you did it really?

[987] reach a sweet spot where you're like, oh, I really like this?

[988] Yeah, well, it did because I stayed longer.

[989] Like, as I was getting close to the end of my year, I realized I still had a lot of money.

[990] And I was like, you know what?

[991] Fuck it.

[992] I'm going to keep going.

[993] I don't, I don't have to go home.

[994] They're not requiring me to go back.

[995] I can keep, why don't I just keep going?

[996] And so I did.

[997] And because there was definitely a point in which I kind of figured out how to do it well.

[998] Right.

[999] You know, I got good at being on my own.

[1000] Because you would go meet musicians and you you would say, I have this interest.

[1001] This is what I'm doing.

[1002] This is what I'm studying.

[1003] This is what I'm interested in.

[1004] So, for example, in Morocco, it was this kind of music that's called Ghanawa music, the intent of which is to kind of exercise demons from people.

[1005] Okay.

[1006] Basically, people who are possessed by demons, which really means they're sick.

[1007] Right.

[1008] There would be these all night musical ceremonies where they would play trance -based music, like incredibly repetitive music.

[1009] Right.

[1010] And people would dance, but people would fall into trances and do all.

[1011] it was like really interesting kind of.

[1012] And so, but it would take me a long time to earn people's trust to let me watch this kind of stuff.

[1013] At first it was like, oh no, you can come to my house and I'll play you songs just so you can see it.

[1014] It took me a very long time for them to be like, okay, tonight at six o 'clock, we'll pick you up and we'll be gone for the whole night.

[1015] And in any of those experiences, did you experience anything transcendent?

[1016] You didn't?

[1017] I didn't.

[1018] No. Do you think because you're someone who's maybe just not even susceptible to say, like, hypnotism or are you a cynical?

[1019] I'm a little bit closed off that way, yeah.

[1020] I'm a little bit like, like, yeah, I don't think that's, I mean, I suspect I'm not open to it.

[1021] Right.

[1022] You know, I'm also like, I've never had anything approaching an experience where I would be like, oh, I think there's a ghost in this house.

[1023] Right, right, right.

[1024] You know what I mean?

[1025] Yeah, yeah, me, I'm super pragmatic science -based, but this stuff is so interesting to me. Yeah.

[1026] I'm so, like, I'm so interested in what's happening.

[1027] I want to know what on a process level is happening, both for the musicians, but also for these dancers, also for the sick person.

[1028] Like, what's going on?

[1029] This is wild and fascinating.

[1030] Yeah, and did you like drugs when you were younger?

[1031] No, I didn't do any drugs or drink alcohol until I was in my late 30s.

[1032] No kidding.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] Even no alcohol.

[1035] Zero.

[1036] Based on what?

[1037] Why?

[1038] Based on a weird family history?

[1039] I don't, no. Although partially my parents didn't much drink.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] So I wasn't around it, much.

[1042] And it was obviously a big thing like suburban high school party drinking kind of stuff.

[1043] If I was to hazard a guess as to why I didn't drink or do any drugs, I would say it is probably because I have a life -threatening food allergy to eggs.

[1044] Oh.

[1045] And eggs is in a lot of stuff.

[1046] And so I grew up very fear -based and very scared of things and very much needing to be and desiring to be in complete control and having to be hyper vigilant about everything that I ate and put in my body.

[1047] And so I think that conceptually the idea of being out of control, drunk or stoned, like not being able to completely visualize what that would mean exactly.

[1048] Or maybe I would be like, I don't know, I'm drunk.

[1049] I want to eat that cookie.

[1050] Oh, right, right.

[1051] And then I'm dead.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] Like maybe being out of control, maybe being stoned means I wouldn't like be, I wouldn't be smart enough to read the ingredients on the packaging and then I'm dead.

[1054] So did you have any crazy experience with eggs as a kid?

[1055] Like were you airlifted or anything?

[1056] Never airlifted, but like plenty of emergency rooms.

[1057] Did you have an epipen?

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] Yeah, I have an epipen?

[1060] Oh, not in that bag.

[1061] Did you kiss someone?

[1062] I did.

[1063] An egg eater?

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] What happened?

[1066] I went on a date with a woman and we, it was a great, like first, it was a first date, even.

[1067] And great.

[1068] We had a super fun first day.

[1069] and chit chat, chit, chat, chit, chit, okay, had a bunch of drinks.

[1070] And then, okay, we go to say good night at the end of the night and we make out for, I don't know, a couple minutes.

[1071] Sure.

[1072] And I'm like, so weird.

[1073] I was like, I feel like I'm having an allergic reaction.

[1074] But I, all we didn't even eat any food.

[1075] Like, all we did was drinking.

[1076] And she was like, well, what are you allergic to?

[1077] And I was like, I'm allergic to eggs.

[1078] And she goes, there's egg in the drink that I had.

[1079] There's egg in the drink that I had.

[1080] had, I had some drink, fucking egg dream.

[1081] Yeah, they have like froth, egg froth.

[1082] Yeah, mixology.

[1083] And this has gotten me twice.

[1084] Oh, wow.

[1085] Once this way, because her drink had eggs and we made out.

[1086] And then I was like, she was like, oh my God, she was like, I'm so sorry.

[1087] I feel so bad.

[1088] I was like, oh, it's okay.

[1089] I just have to go home, take Benadryl, do an epipan.

[1090] It'll be fine.

[1091] But, right.

[1092] And do you, does it immediately affect your breathing?

[1093] It, it will affect my breathing.

[1094] It, uh, it just is, it's a matter of how much have I ingested.

[1095] and what, like, strength of it.

[1096] Like, for example, if there was a bit of egg in the production of three dozen cookies, and I ate one bite of one cookie, I, it would take, it would be a little slow, right?

[1097] It would take a couple minutes for me to notice it.

[1098] Right.

[1099] But, like, I was at a friend's house who had grapes, sugar grapes, on the table.

[1100] And I was like, well, that seems pretty safe.

[1101] Sure.

[1102] one, two, and I was like, hang on, what's up with these grapes?

[1103] And she was like, in order to get the sugar to stick, you have to roll them in egg whites.

[1104] Oh, Jesus.

[1105] By the time I was in her lobby, I was almost unconscious.

[1106] Oh, my God.

[1107] Like, I was like, this is years ago in New York.

[1108] I got into a cab with my girlfriend at the time.

[1109] And I said, for the first time to her, we'd been together for like 10 years at that point, I was like, if I'm unconscious when we get to the hospital, these are the three things you need to tell them.

[1110] Wow.

[1111] And I wasn't, and it was fine.

[1112] But it was so fast.

[1113] I'm almost impressed that you were even able to go abroad for two years because I think, oh, this is this whole environment.

[1114] There was a bunch of times that I got into really dicey situations.

[1115] I almost died in like a cement room in Egypt.

[1116] Oh, my God.

[1117] And in a monastery in Greece, I almost died.

[1118] Really?

[1119] No wonder you're a hypochondriac.

[1120] You're not a hypochondriac.

[1121] You actually shouldn't be very concerned at all the time.

[1122] That's the bummer.

[1123] is like there is and that's like I had a therapist one say to me like you you have every right to be vigilant and crazy yeah about only food you are inappropriately applying that template to other parts of your life and it's just inappropriate there like you shouldn't be as vigilant and as controlling in your relationships in your whatever and these other things yeah because you only actually need to do that for food.

[1124] That would be very hard to delineate when it's appropriate.

[1125] So you've had a hundred episodes of being scared from this egg thing.

[1126] Easy.

[1127] Oh, my goodness.

[1128] It's everywhere.

[1129] It's in a lot of stuff.

[1130] Can I make a suggestion though?

[1131] Go for it.

[1132] Will you try a Vital Farms egg?

[1133] I'd love to.

[1134] They are free range bullshit free eggs.

[1135] Is this a sponsor?

[1136] Yeah, they're one of my sponsors.

[1137] Here's what I'm going to say.

[1138] Here's how much, like, Dax, I'm committed to this podcast.

[1139] In order to.

[1140] Monica, bring out the eggs.

[1141] In order to.

[1142] support your sponsor.

[1143] What is it called Vital Hanks?

[1144] Vital Farms.

[1145] I would love to eat one of, I would love.

[1146] Here's, you know what?

[1147] Here's an ad for you guys, Vital Farms.

[1148] Jason Manzook is here saying, I would literally die eating a Vital Farms.

[1149] There you go.

[1150] And it would be delicious.

[1151] That's the ultimate sign of a quality product.

[1152] If I'm ready to go out, if I'm ready to check out, it's going to be with a Vital Farms egg.

[1153] I hope I'm lucky enough to serve you that egg.

[1154] stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare okay so you make your way home yeah and um you've you've not dedicated six years of your life to both music and theology on some level sure and you go okay well this is what am i going to do with all this is there no at this point i am only planning on moving to new york and doing comedy okay i'm like so that whole time you were like I know I'm going to get into this.

[1155] Had I not been, had I not gotten that grant, I would have moved to New York to do comedy.

[1156] Right.

[1157] That was my plan.

[1158] But I got the grant and I was like, I'll do this.

[1159] This is cool.

[1160] I was at the time that I did the, that I got the grant and left, I was five or six callbacks deep for the Blue Man group.

[1161] You're kidding.

[1162] Oh, that makes sense because you're a drummer, yeah.

[1163] And they were, it was the first, one of the first expansions and one of the most important things they needed was drummers.

[1164] Yeah.

[1165] And so there was, there was a moment where I was like, I might, maybe I won't do, maybe I won't go travel.

[1166] Maybe I'll see what this blue man thing happens.

[1167] And then I was like, no, no, no, wait a minute, what am I talking about?

[1168] I should go and do this trip.

[1169] This is amazing, you know, when am I going to get this opportunity?

[1170] Somebody give me a bunch of money to go to amazing places and study something I'm genuinely fascinated by.

[1171] But so there was always a, some performance element, like I had done sketching, in college and in high school.

[1172] And so, like, that was always a, like, to me, where I wanted to, like, I wanted to be on SNL.

[1173] I wanted, that was my, right.

[1174] Those were my kind of goals.

[1175] So you get back to New York and then how quickly do you find UCB pretty soon?

[1176] Almost immediately.

[1177] Okay.

[1178] Almost immediately, I'm, uh, I go and see, uh, I go and see them do a show.

[1179] And then at the end of that show, they say, uh, we're teaching classes.

[1180] This is before there's a theater.

[1181] They would rent out different venues.

[1182] to do shows.

[1183] And so the one they were renting out.

[1184] The first time I saw them was the red room up above the KGB bar, which was like a venue that all sorts of people would do stuff in.

[1185] And then they had like a kind of, not a residency, but like they had like every Sunday night they would do Askat at a place called Solo Arts.

[1186] And that became the first, like that's when I took classes, it was in that space.

[1187] So how old was it at that point when you saw it for the first time?

[1188] A couple years?

[1189] Not even, like maybe a year, they'd been there a year maybe.

[1190] Okay.

[1191] And did you fall head over heels in love with Polar the second you saw?

[1192] Oh, my God.

[1193] I was like, previous generation of Chicago, the Chicago group that did like the legendary Chicago shows.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] Second City and Improv Olympic shows.

[1196] So watching them amazing, right?

[1197] The shows were amazing.

[1198] Polar, though, just like screaming, amazing talent from the stage.

[1199] Just unbelievable.

[1200] It's so captivating.

[1201] I don't know.

[1202] When I saw, even Polar, I think the first time I saw her do improv, I just kind of thought to myself, well, this can't be.

[1203] No. There can't be somebody this beautiful that's also.

[1204] Oh, so funny.

[1205] The funniest person, like just the funniest person on that stage every time.

[1206] You feel like a unicorn.

[1207] Yeah, you're just watching this crazy little unicorn.

[1208] And then the next time I really feel like I saw that was I was out here.

[1209] I went to a Sunday company show.

[1210] Someone was like, oh, you should go see the Sunday company.

[1211] You've never seen, I'd never seen a Groundling show.

[1212] And it was, it was a good show, but there were two sketches that were like next level.

[1213] And it would, both of them were Kristen Wigg sketches.

[1214] Right.

[1215] And I was like, I don't know who that is, but like that person is, that's a thing.

[1216] That's like, whoa.

[1217] Yeah.

[1218] I was just blown away.

[1219] It was like exceptional.

[1220] So you get into UCB and then before long, you're in one of the first teams, right?

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] Like I'm on a team called Mother that is like a big, like one of the longest, like bigger house teams.

[1224] Yeah.

[1225] The Swarm Mother, there's Respecto, a couple of other teams that were like the kind of long running house teams.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] And did you, as this was happening, What year does Polar go to S &L?

[1228] 2001.

[1229] September 2001.

[1230] Her first show is right after September 11th.

[1231] Oh, congratulations.

[1232] Good luck.

[1233] Right?

[1234] I'm almost positive of that.

[1235] That's right.

[1236] Her, Seth Myers, that class began their first show, I think, was two weeks after September 11th.

[1237] Something like that.

[1238] That might be a little bit wrong, but there's something like that.

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] And so as people that you're now friends with are getting those opportunities, What are you thinking, oh, this is going to happen to me?

[1241] Or are you like, oh, it's not going to happen to me?

[1242] For me, I'm not like a, I'm not a jealous person.

[1243] I think maybe because I came out of the improv thing and everything, it seemed to me there was room for everybody.

[1244] I firmly believed the more people from our scene that get successful, the more people from our scene they're going to use.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] So when Polar got SNL, it was great.

[1247] right but polar was like polar was absolutely part of our scene but she started our scene right it was really when like wriggle got SNL that i was like wait a minute now my peers are getting now you know or when like i auditioned for the daily show when helms and cordry got it uh -huh and i was like this is exciting these are these are my peers these are the people that i was in classes with or whatever yeah like polar was my teacher it gets that much more real it was second It was really exciting.

[1248] I really loved that.

[1249] Those years felt like, because there was a bunch of years, like, let's say, 98 to, like, 2001, 2002, where certainly, like, the UCB themselves and the people from that generation were working on their sketch show or doing other stuff.

[1250] But all of us within the scene below, we were still just scrapping, you know?

[1251] Oh, yeah.

[1252] And then how are you even, what were you doing for work?

[1253] I worked, I first was a temp, and then I was hired full time in a computer graphics department at J .P. Morgan, where I worked for three years.

[1254] Oh, that's so, it was super weird.

[1255] Not what I would expect.

[1256] Like I had a full day job.

[1257] And you clearly shaved back then.

[1258] Oh, yes.

[1259] Uh -huh.

[1260] Yes.

[1261] Because I want to say when I met you, I don't know if you remember when we first met.

[1262] But Askat.

[1263] You were with Will.

[1264] Uh -huh.

[1265] And we went out, I feel like, to the Half King afterwards.

[1266] Yep.

[1267] And then you.

[1268] almost immediately after that you were in baby mama oh yeah that's that's kind of where i remember i remember meeting you on the rooftop yeah that scene that's true too yeah and i had seen you in a couple improv shows prior to that thought you're really funny and then i also had this moment where you're in the movie i was like oh again i i can go on all day about polar how much i love her but she's just one of these people that really goes out of her way to pull people up with her in my opinion i mean i don't without a doubt like the idea that like like like In that movie, you know, that scene where it's all the pregnant couples, it's like Brian Stack is in there, I'm in there, Dave Finkel's in there, like.

[1269] They're just using people that they know and like, you know, that they know will do well, but they also are supporting.

[1270] And what's interesting is you would think, oh, like, well, of course, that's what people would do.

[1271] But at the same time, no, because you're so stuck in your own obsession about getting to the destination that it actually takes someone that's abnormally.

[1272] benevolent to keep reminding me like, oh, I also got to think of everyone around me. Oh, no, absolutely.

[1273] Which really was such a formative part of that scene was like really support and whenever people got success, they would almost invariably turn around and pull a bunch of other people forward.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] You know, like I feel like when Cordray had Children's Hospital, he turned around and grabbed a bunch of people and was like, come right, come perform, come do this thing with me. Yeah.

[1276] Do you ever worry for?

[1277] instance, for me, if I look at all those comedians I was obsessed with in the 80s, there's only a couple that if somehow I don't know how they did it, they stayed sharp.

[1278] Like Bill Murray to me is this crazy anomaly where I don't know how, but he's everything he's always been.

[1279] Comedians tend to age roughly.

[1280] Oh, yeah.

[1281] Well, comedy is a thing, unlike drama.

[1282] You know, drama is drama is drama.

[1283] Yeah, your daughter dies of something, it's always sad.

[1284] You have access to.

[1285] You have access to those emotions, no matter what time it is, no matter when you're finding that thing, whether it's a movie from 30 years ago or present day or whatever, you're trading in that stuff.

[1286] Genre, same thing.

[1287] Comedy evolve, like, changes.

[1288] Our tastes in comedy change generationally.

[1289] Every, like, 12 or so years, we decide, like, we...

[1290] It's a new paradigm.

[1291] Yeah, like, the idea that, like, we went from the kind of singular, uh, broad, like, uh, a Jim Carrey, Ace Venture, a liar, liar, you know, that era.

[1292] of the mask, supernatural, doesn't obey any naturalistic laws of, of, of anything crazy, blah, blah, blah, that we then...

[1293] Big crazy concept.

[1294] Yeah, high, very high concept, magical realism kind of stuff.

[1295] The idea that we then go and shift completely into what the kind of, uh, Judd, Seth and Evan, uh, more naturalistic, more improvised kind of, uh, these movies clearly exist in the real world, the performances that are being given are ensemble you know big ensembles of people acting pretty much like normal people act just being as funny as possible within that context and that has been the kind of taste for the last whatever well and I feel like we're suffering some transition right now that we don't really know what's now I think that's why comedies have been doing pretty bad for the last couple years yeah and it's easy to go if you're a studio president to go like okay I mean I have my own theories on why?

[1296] I mean, but you point out something really interesting I haven't thought of is that, yeah, I think we're probably in a paradigm shift.

[1297] Someone will come out with something that works.

[1298] Here's one of my fears.

[1299] Everyone wants to laugh.

[1300] They need to laugh.

[1301] You can go on Instagram and you can get a joke in 30 seconds.

[1302] It's very easy.

[1303] I'm laughing all day long looking at guys crash forklifts, you know, whatever the thing I find is funny.

[1304] You can't get drama that way.

[1305] You can't get a 30 second dose of drama.

[1306] I think you're right.

[1307] I think a lot of our appetite for comedy has now been farmed out to social media or YouTube or, you know, like when I would talk to like my nieces and nephews about like, what do you think is funny?

[1308] What do you watch?

[1309] How do you watch it?

[1310] You know, and it's not true obviously right now because it's closed, but for years it was just Vine.

[1311] It was fine.

[1312] Vine was their preferred avenue to find funny stuff.

[1313] They didn't watch sitcoms.

[1314] They didn't, they weren't watching.

[1315] TV shows to find, they don't know who stand -up comedians are.

[1316] Right, right.

[1317] They really don't.

[1318] Right.

[1319] They know Vine stars or YouTube people.

[1320] Yeah.

[1321] Those direct, like, we are.

[1322] It's a super efficient way, because you're jumping right to whatever the thing is.

[1323] But what it's doing in a kind of terrible, well, not in a terrible way, because I don't want, I don't want to, in a way that is, that is disappointing to me personally is that it is, like, the focus now for how we process comedy.

[1324] a lot of times, or how we process a lot of stuff, isn't I point my camera at the world and I show you the world as I see it?

[1325] It is I point the camera at myself and tell you about the world as I see it.

[1326] It is all, like, we live in this, like, really weird period of like, hey guys, guess what?

[1327] I'm here.

[1328] This is the day that I decided I'm going to do the five things that I said I was going to do when I was 11 years old.

[1329] I found the list when I was at my mom's house last week, and this is what we're doing today.

[1330] And that's a video that, like, I kind of want to see it the way you just described it.

[1331] I want to see her do the list.

[1332] Yes.

[1333] But that, hey guys, is terrifying.

[1334] Yeah.

[1335] Here's my bigger fear and sadness over the whole thing is that comedy is infinitely better when it's a shared experience.

[1336] Yes.

[1337] There's nothing like, like when I saw wedding crashers in Santa Monica, I couldn't believe what was happening, right?

[1338] And it was just all getting amplified by one another.

[1339] And we're missing like two -minute sections of dialogues.

[1340] We're all laughing so hard.

[1341] I mean, what a fucking ride.

[1342] But like nobody, but you're talking about something that is in and of itself almost like a disappearing thing, which is going to the movies.

[1343] I don't know.

[1344] I can't get my nieces and nephews to be interested to go to the movies.

[1345] Right.

[1346] Something that to me was like the most special, most fun thing.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] I think for them, they're like, eh, who cares?

[1349] I can watch something right here.

[1350] I know.

[1351] Watch me. I'm watching something.

[1352] It regularly makes me sad for my children because I'll put on, like, let's say, elf, which they dig.

[1353] And it's a great Christmas movie, and it's super funny.

[1354] And I just think, oh, but I saw this.

[1355] I know exactly.

[1356] I was in New Zealand shooting without a paddle.

[1357] I went and saw it there.

[1358] There was a little kid behind me standing on his seat.

[1359] And he goes, I like him.

[1360] I like him so much, Dad.

[1361] Like he was having this feeling about Will Farrell, you know, publicly and standing on chair.

[1362] And I was like, that's what consuming something like that should be like where it's just like.

[1363] But no. We're also doing a bad job of creating comedies that are visually interesting such that people would feel like they would want to go to the movies to see them.

[1364] You know, unfortunately, we are not making comedies that have anything approaching visuals that, make it a compelling visual storytelling.

[1365] It's truly just locked off cameras primarily, pointed at people who are improvising.

[1366] And then it's just jokes.

[1367] It's just head jokes.

[1368] Not like thoughtful, you know, these are the comedy movies that we grew up on.

[1369] You know, your caddy shacks.

[1370] I mean, yes, they're bloated.

[1371] Yes, they're slow sometimes or whatever now in retrospect.

[1372] But these are well -made movies.

[1373] Right.

[1374] I was excited to see when I was reading about you today that you co -wrote, write along.

[1375] I did, yeah.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] How many of there were you?

[1378] I was writer number three.

[1379] Okay.

[1380] And I was rewritten for the final movie.

[1381] Okay.

[1382] The version of the movie I wrote was specifically for Ice Cube and Andy Sandberg.

[1383] Okay.

[1384] And so that was the version I wrote.

[1385] And it made its way.

[1386] It was like I'd written a pilot for NBC that was all, cops.

[1387] It was called off duty.

[1388] It was like cops who you never see doing police work.

[1389] So it's like the drive up to walking into a grizzly murder scene, cut away.

[1390] And so I, off of that, they hired me to rewrite a movie that they had written that was very, that was very PG.

[1391] It was very much like Ice Cube wants to scare the guy that's going to marry his sister.

[1392] So he creates a bunch of fake scares for him.

[1393] Right.

[1394] And to chase the guy off.

[1395] And I was like, I'll do this, but the way I want to do it is I want to do the shield as a comedy.

[1396] Love it.

[1397] And they were like, yeah, go ahead.

[1398] Let's try that.

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] You know, and so I wrote it and they were very into it.

[1401] It looked like for a minute it was going to get made.

[1402] And then it all fell apart.

[1403] Yeah.

[1404] It got put into turnaround.

[1405] And then 21 Jump Street came out.

[1406] Ice Cube was funny in that movie.

[1407] And people were like, Ice Cube is funny.

[1408] And to their credit, Ice Cube's company was like, we have a comedy script starring Ice Cube that we'll make.

[1409] Right.

[1410] And so Universal bought it out of Turnaround.

[1411] They put Kevin Hart in it.

[1412] And then they hired Manfredi and Hay to rewrite me. Okay.

[1413] Is that is that Hartstri?

[1414] Writers?

[1415] No. No. They are just another, another writing team.

[1416] Okay.

[1417] On the scene at the time who were great.

[1418] I have a question.

[1419] Go ahead.

[1420] She's a UCB.

[1421] Monica is a UCB person.

[1422] I was super, super into it.

[1423] And it's really timely because I have a dinner reunion tonight with one of my first indie teams, which is fun.

[1424] I guess my question is, speaking of the Bog one, my, like, five years ago is really when I was super into it, which now it's like, it's insane how big it is.

[1425] Sure.

[1426] And I feel like I was like the last class of it's still being sort of small.

[1427] Like, we didn't have the...

[1428] What's hilarious is, like...

[1429] You think that too?

[1430] I think that too.

[1431] And I'm the class that started in 98.

[1432] The whole thing, yeah.

[1433] You know what I mean?

[1434] Like when I started UCB, there was maybe like a hundred of us.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] You know what I know.

[1437] Well, that's what I'm getting at.

[1438] So this is before the school opened and all that stuff.

[1439] But you guys, like the first group were the boguan.

[1440] I don't want to use the word cult because I was so indoctrinated.

[1441] No, people use the word cult.

[1442] around UCB, you know, because it is such a, like kind of what I was talking about before.

[1443] It's like, here is our system.

[1444] Here is the way.

[1445] Take these classes.

[1446] Then you get access to the stage.

[1447] Then you can be on this team.

[1448] If you are good enough to be on this team, you might be able to get onto this team, you know.

[1449] And it's your whole life.

[1450] You're doing shows every day.

[1451] You're doing practice groups.

[1452] You're on 10 teams.

[1453] It's everything.

[1454] I got, I feel like my generation of UCB is incredibly lucky because we came up in a time where there were not many of us.

[1455] We had just got in a theater and we had we could we could just get on stage almost always yeah like I was doing shows almost every night of the week or I was teaching or I was directing or I was doing like I did Malcolm Gladwell's 10 ,000 hours in those first you know probably six to eight years in New York I just I was constantly doing or talking about or examining improv and sketch is it strange to be one of those people there where you are like hair?

[1456] When you're walking into the theater and there's the line and they're looking at you, like, oh my God.

[1457] Balushy's here.

[1458] It is that.

[1459] It is that thing.

[1460] It is like, you're not wrong.

[1461] I know what you mean.

[1462] Like, within UCB or within, like, there is perhaps no place I'm more famous than in an improv theater.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] You know what I mean?

[1465] Like, because those really are the people who are like, who are like, oh, this person is like one of the most senior people that, does this thing that I am aspiring to do or that I am obsessed with.

[1466] It's not just like being in the supermarket and having somebody be like, oh, hey, I like you on Brooklyn.

[1467] No, no, this is like, if you're into comic books and you see Stan.

[1468] Exactly.

[1469] Yeah, it's that.

[1470] It really is.

[1471] Comedy nerds.

[1472] To comedy nerds, I am, I guess, somebody.

[1473] And because I don't think of it all the time.

[1474] But then when I meet people or talk to younger comedy people, I'm like, oh, of course.

[1475] I've now been just doing this long enough.

[1476] and a lot of people have been like, I saw you do a show 12 years ago at UCB in New York.

[1477] I don't know if you remember it.

[1478] You were doing a scene with somebody and you did this and then you said that and I'm always like, I don't remember the show I did last week.

[1479] Never mind 12 years.

[1480] I don't remember anything.

[1481] Right.

[1482] These people, they go and they watch your show, these people, I was at one point.

[1483] One of them, they go and they watch your show.

[1484] It sounds like you were obsessed with me. I was so obsessed.

[1485] I'm telling you now.

[1486] No, I can attest to this when she was like, Jason wants to do the show.

[1487] And I was like, yeah, That would be great.

[1488] But the level of which it was as if...

[1489] It was as if Leonardo DiCaprio had called to say, yeah, yeah.

[1490] I will literally answer any and all you see B questions you have, Monica, happily.

[1491] But they go to your show, then they go to birds after, and then they spend an hour talking about your show.

[1492] Oh, that's great.

[1493] And you...

[1494] I've never seen Monica Moore Starstruck.

[1495] We've had so many people up here.

[1496] That's not true.

[1497] No, it's interesting.

[1498] No, but it's funny because you're breaking down basically.

[1499] Like, imagine you were asking...

[1500] Ashton in here.

[1501] I mean, do you realize, like, people watch your show and then they, like, talk about it over dinner?

[1502] Like, this is just something that would never fascinate you.

[1503] Because it was my world for so, so long.

[1504] I think it's adorable.

[1505] Yeah.

[1506] I like it.

[1507] It is, it is, and it has that, um, fervent kind of, it is, it is, it's an art form that is so satisfying to do, but if you are somebody that does it, it's also very satisfying to talk about.

[1508] Oh, my, I, I hope to talk about if you are not into it.

[1509] I always say my poor girlfriend that I had for nine years the whole time I was going through the groundlings.

[1510] She had to sit there in my fucking living room and has us talk about our sketches.

[1511] Oh, yeah.

[1512] Oh, brutal.

[1513] Oh, yeah.

[1514] Now, no, we'll sit in the bar.

[1515] You guys go to birds because that's where the young people go.

[1516] We don't.

[1517] I go to the old people bar, but.

[1518] And we'll break down the show, you know, like just on like a clinical.

[1519] Just for fun to be like, okay.

[1520] And then why did you come and do that?

[1521] Like, that was like wild, you know, because it's fun.

[1522] Or, like, I do a show that's just me and another person, one scene for an hour, you know, is the whole show.

[1523] It's just we walk out on stage, get a suggestion, and it's just one real -time improvised scene.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] And those are, those are, and then afterwards, there's a question and answer period because they're oftentimes incredibly crazy shows.

[1526] Uh -huh.

[1527] Super emotional, super weird.

[1528] People cry.

[1529] It's really wild.

[1530] And the almost, I would say, 90 % of the audience is improv students.

[1531] Right.

[1532] All of whom have a lot of questions about how we just did what we just did, you know, on a process level.

[1533] And that I love.

[1534] I love process.

[1535] Genuinely, I love to talk about improvising.

[1536] I love to talk about how integral and important it is in my life and in my career.

[1537] It is such a, it's something I talk about constantly in therapy.

[1538] It's something that I think is applicable to like all elements of life.

[1539] Whenever people are like, oh, you know, like in like an interview or something, like, you know, why do you still do improv shows you know like you're on tv you did it you made it yeah why do you still do a weekly show it at you see me and i'm like i i would i would stop working professionally if you told me i could just improvise every night like right i would prefer to step on that stage and pay my mortgage doing that yeah i there is nothing that makes me feel like more solidly in my own body and head than being on stage without knowing what's going to well and you're also connecting to people in a way that is very heightened and can't really be replicated without, again, drugs, which I advise you to do.

[1540] Yeah, it's a very fun, unique, connected experience.

[1541] That's really cool.

[1542] But you've had, you already said something that's a little bit of a clue for me, which is, and I don't know how you are this way.

[1543] My wife happens to be this way too, but you're not jealous of other people that are around you, which is incredible.

[1544] Did you ever audition for Saturday Night Live?

[1545] I did not.

[1546] The closest I ever got was one year.

[1547] The first step is they ask you to send a tape.

[1548] Uh -huh.

[1549] And one year I got asked to send a tape.

[1550] Okay.

[1551] And that was it.

[1552] At that point, we were doing, like, Lauren would come and watch UCB showcases.

[1553] Okay.

[1554] So, like, there would be a night where there would be, like, me and, like, I was partners with Jessica St. Clair for, like, 10 years.

[1555] Okay.

[1556] We were, like, a comedy team.

[1557] Okay.

[1558] So we would be, like, two of our sketches, two sketches from this other group, and they would, everybody would get, like, a shot.

[1559] And, like it would be a full audience, but like Lauren and Marcy and like Higgins would be there watching kind of thing.

[1560] Stressful?

[1561] Yeah.

[1562] Oh, yeah.

[1563] The first couple times, very stressful.

[1564] The idea that Lord Michaels was in the audience was very stressful.

[1565] Yeah, absolutely.

[1566] But then once it was like abundantly clear, I was never going to be on SNL.

[1567] And then if Lauren was there, it didn't, that was fine, you know?

[1568] Right.

[1569] Because I was like, I don't, this isn't going anywhere.

[1570] Yeah, yeah.

[1571] But the show that I desperately want.

[1572] and could never get and auditioned for every year or every year they had auditions was the Daily Show.

[1573] Oh, that was more your line at you.

[1574] Yeah, it was, it just, it felt particularly vibrant at that time.

[1575] I feel like you're a very natural fit for that.

[1576] I couldn't crack it.

[1577] I could not crack their thing.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] And I was heartbroken.

[1580] Like that's the one that I kept going back at.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] Once SNL was like, eh, I was, I never even tried again.

[1583] But the Daily Show, every time they were like, I don't think so.

[1584] I was like, next year, you're going to see.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] You know?

[1587] Yeah, I feel like you would have been very, very.

[1588] I agree.

[1589] Yeah, no, I mean, that seems.

[1590] Again, that's its own little genre or paradigm, too.

[1591] That, like, the guys that came out of there.

[1592] Those are the two scenes in New York at the time.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] It was like the SNL group and it was the, because there was nothing else there except for Letterman, I guess.

[1595] But, you know, for performers, it really was.

[1596] Those are the two gigs, you know.

[1597] Now, here's my heart.

[1598] hitting question, which I'll try to be word this correctly.

[1599] You, you're very much like a comedian's comedian.

[1600] I think all comedians know you.

[1601] Okay.

[1602] That's my perception.

[1603] I'll take that.

[1604] Yeah.

[1605] I mean, I love that description.

[1606] Thank you.

[1607] You've been recurring on all of Mike's shows, right?

[1608] You're on parks.

[1609] You're on the good place.

[1610] Do you get resentful to have that cachet among us and to not be leading your own TV show?

[1611] Has that frustrated you over the years?

[1612] It has not.

[1613] It hasn't.

[1614] It has not.

[1615] I have had a number of heartbreaking failures that I wish had succeeded.

[1616] Uh -huh.

[1617] But I will say I love being the, I love where I am.

[1618] The role you have.

[1619] I love where I am.

[1620] I love that Mike wants to use me in all his shows.

[1621] I love that, like, the guy who writes and directs the John Wick movies called me. And it was like, will you come and be in this movie?

[1622] movie.

[1623] I love that I'm like a person that people love either love or think is their secret weapon or think is like some...

[1624] Introducing people to you.

[1625] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1626] I'm not somebody who is out there doing a bunch of stuff that everybody's like, oh, there's that guy again.

[1627] Yeah.

[1628] It really is like I like being able to pop up on things here and there.

[1629] I had a, there are, but there are a couple things like I developed a show for myself to star in at showtime like two years, three or two, three years ago, that would have been like my show.

[1630] Right.

[1631] And I was heartbroken that it didn't go.

[1632] Now, that's fine.

[1633] But, and I will continue to develop for myself.

[1634] And, but, you know, like every year I get offered pilots and shows that I just don't think are great.

[1635] So I kind of don't do them.

[1636] Right.

[1637] Okay.

[1638] So you do.

[1639] I'd rather be.

[1640] Invalible to great stuff.

[1641] Exactly.

[1642] There was a certain point where during the 10 years that I feel like I would happily have signed up to been fourth banana on a sitcom, nobody wanted me to be.

[1643] Right.

[1644] Couldn't get a job.

[1645] I had a pretty successful writing career during those 10 years.

[1646] Sold shows, sold features, wrote a bunch of stuff.

[1647] It had like made a good living.

[1648] And then I got the league which was transformative for me because I feel like that's the show that really is like the baseline for people being like, oh, oh, that's how you use that guy.

[1649] I get it now.

[1650] Right.

[1651] And then people started to use me. Yeah.

[1652] And then And that show, and that show being improvised also played directly into my skill set.

[1653] Yes.

[1654] So I very quickly was able to be very funny on that show with like no introduction, just being like, I was never responsible for story.

[1655] I could just come in and be as disruptive as possible.

[1656] Yes.

[1657] And they allowed that.

[1658] They were like, one of the things that I'm in the good place is the same thing, which I'm very grateful for.

[1659] Or Brooklyn, these are big ensembles.

[1660] and they still will let me come in and, like, steal focus.

[1661] Sure.

[1662] And do a bunch of nonsense.

[1663] Yeah, trash the place.

[1664] And I really, I'm so, that's when you ask, like, does it, I love that that's where I'm at.

[1665] I love that I get to go in and be funny on shows that I think are already phenomenal.

[1666] You know, like, I watched season one of the good place and thought it was amazing.

[1667] Yeah.

[1668] And then in season two, when Mike called to say, do you want to come and do this?

[1669] character.

[1670] I was like, yes, I don't even need to know what it is.

[1671] Just tell me when to be there.

[1672] Yes.

[1673] And there have been times where I've shown up, like, thinking, like, I need to know these lines.

[1674] This is like, transparent was a good example.

[1675] Like, I was like, I knew Jill, but and I was like, this is a real show.

[1676] Like I need to be, I need to be like ready.

[1677] So I prepared, did my stuff.

[1678] We did the first take.

[1679] And she goes, oh, wait, wait.

[1680] No, no, no, no. Sorry.

[1681] I hired you to do your thing.

[1682] Yeah, yeah.

[1683] That was a placeholder.

[1684] Yeah.

[1685] So you just do the thing you do.

[1686] Because it was a scene with Jay Duplas, who I've known forever, and Amy Landekker.

[1687] And I was like, you sure?

[1688] And so then we just started improvising the scene.

[1689] And within the improv, I just started flirting with Amy Landekar's character.

[1690] And then by the end of the day, Jill was like, well, I guess you have to come back in season two so you guys can have sex.

[1691] And I was like, okay.

[1692] And so that ended up happening.

[1693] Well, see, I think maybe this is one of the answers, because similarly, I've always enjoyed whatever I got to do because more often than not, I had a huge sense of ownership over it.

[1694] Because I have been allowed to do the thing I do.

[1695] And I could be happier being fifth on the call sheet because I had owned the thing I said than if I had been the star.

[1696] Oh, yeah.

[1697] There's something about that that's really rewarding, isn't it?

[1698] We are allowed a degree of freedom when you are occupying that position.

[1699] That is in a business that is constantly kind of challenging your sense of power or control or any of that, we luckily are allowed a degree of control simply because our skill set is something that is valued.

[1700] So generally now, like say my wife, if she sees that you're coming in, she knows that.

[1701] Yeah.

[1702] But there's other times where it's like you kind of are all on the same level, let's say, and you get hired.

[1703] And you're somehow allowed to do that.

[1704] But then other actors have to be gently told.

[1705] That can be a very awkward moment, right?

[1706] Well, and there's shows that I've gone on to where they don't improvise, but I am allowed to.

[1707] Exactly.

[1708] Or I'm, like, I went on to dirty grandpa, Robert De Niro and Zach Efron.

[1709] And I knew it's, and I knew the director and he was like, uh, I, come, I need you to like improvise a lot of things.

[1710] I need just like, like, like, funny, crazy stuff.

[1711] Yeah.

[1712] And I was like, yeah, got it.

[1713] I see what's up.

[1714] Yeah.

[1715] And Zach, I'd met, uh, on neighbors, I guess.

[1716] Uh, and then.

[1717] But De Niro didn't know at all.

[1718] And it's De Niro.

[1719] And I was like super intimidated.

[1720] Sure.

[1721] And it was my first take of my first day.

[1722] The director explains to Zach and Robert.

[1723] He goes, okay, well, you know, we're going to do this take.

[1724] And Jason's just going to kind of like, you know, say some stuff.

[1725] He's going to do it over the fuck he wants.

[1726] He's going to kind of.

[1727] And Bob was kind of like, okay.

[1728] And I'm like, here we go.

[1729] Because I'm like, I don't want to waste this guy's time.

[1730] Yes.

[1731] It's the only thing, you know, like you don't want to be indulgent and waste anybody's time.

[1732] This is Rob Geniro, right?

[1733] Because you weirdly, you weirdly have to police yourself.

[1734] When I, when we made the dictator, Sasha and I would regularly do 25 -minute take.

[1735] Right, right.

[1736] Regularly do 25 -minute improvised takes that were nuts.

[1737] Right.

[1738] And I was like, what can't be used to do with this?

[1739] This is chaos.

[1740] But I go in and I just start riffing and doing stuff.

[1741] And De Niro's just like staring at me. You know, if cameras on me, he's not on camera, he's just there.

[1742] He's there, though.

[1743] And I'm just doing this And I'm like This guy is gonna He's gonna be so pissed And then I finished my Okay cut Okay great And then he He kind of stoic kind of De Niro face And goes There was some funny stuff in there And I was like Oh thank God But like that's like I got They weren't improvising They didn't do a lot of improvising But they wanted me to And so sometimes You don't know The actors are going to be The other actors Might be annoyed Sure or that you're being indulgent or that you're being allowed to kind of waste time.

[1744] But then sometimes it gets, sometimes people get really excited.

[1745] This kind of thing, improvising, improvising in these contexts, hasn't been going on for a super long time.

[1746] So, like, when I went on to Brooklyn and started doing little improv bits, Andre Brower was like, what are you doing?

[1747] It was genuinely, like, so curious, again, on a process level, He was like, how are you doing this?

[1748] Right.

[1749] Are you coming up with these other lines the night before?

[1750] Are you, because he is such a ferocious, like, process monster of preparedness.

[1751] Yes.

[1752] He comes with choices.

[1753] He comes with, like, options for his lines.

[1754] He's such a consummate professional and is crushing it.

[1755] And then here I am, just like fucking doop -doop -doop, like running around, like, being a maniac.

[1756] And he was just so tickled by it, but was also.

[1757] also like, how are you doing this?

[1758] Yeah.

[1759] Mechanically, what's happening.

[1760] How does it work?

[1761] And that's neat.

[1762] Like, Ted, dancing was the same on The Good Place.

[1763] He was like, this is wild.

[1764] Yeah.

[1765] My first day on The Good Place, they were like, okay, I was like, what's my field of motion?

[1766] Where am I in?

[1767] And they were like, you can go from there to there.

[1768] And Ted was kind of like, what's going on right now?

[1769] That's wonderful.

[1770] It's really fun when you're on The Good Place.

[1771] Obviously, I watch that.

[1772] It's a very good show.

[1773] Your wife is incredibly talented.

[1774] She's incredibly talented.

[1775] She can really do all the things.

[1776] All the things.

[1777] Yeah.

[1778] I mean, I have almost nothing on her.

[1779] It's really frustrating.

[1780] Are you single?

[1781] I am.

[1782] You are single.

[1783] I am single, yes.

[1784] Would you like to be married and all that?

[1785] I would.

[1786] Very much like to be married.

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] I am like, that is the thing that I am most shocked by in my life is that I have gotten to be 45 and don't have a family.

[1789] I was so on that path and was like on board for it.

[1790] Right.

[1791] You knew you wanted that.

[1792] Knew I wanted it.

[1793] Had a relationship that was like 11 years long that I was like, yeah, great.

[1794] Let's do this.

[1795] I'm in.

[1796] And then so, but then that didn't work.

[1797] A couple of others didn't work.

[1798] And I'm like single and like shocked.

[1799] Do you have a pattern where you're aware of like, okay, next time around?

[1800] Because you'll learn a lot in an 11 year.

[1801] You know, like I feel like it is, I am trying to cumulatively learn like.

[1802] get I want I need to get better at this right you know I need to get better at figuring these things out yeah because I get into like oh oh I get into a thing and then three years go by and then it ends and I'm like okay well that was that what am I meant to learn from this how do I yeah get better at this you know do you think maybe that you um stay with people longer than you should very much so yeah do you think that's because you have a hard time hurting someone's feelings or being honest?

[1803] I think there's that.

[1804] I think I think there's that.

[1805] I also think that if I feel like I have chosen you, if I feel like this is the choice I've made, I'm, I'm going to follow through for better or worse.

[1806] I am going to follow through.

[1807] I'm going to try.

[1808] I'm going to, I'll go to therapy.

[1809] I'll go to, I'll work on it because I think we can figure this out.

[1810] I think you and I, we are smart enough.

[1811] We can, whatever the problems are.

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] we're certainly smarter and better capable of dealing with them.

[1814] Let's do it.

[1815] Yeah.

[1816] I always feel like there is a future just ahead where we have figured out this bit of nonsense that we're stuck on and that then everything will be better.

[1817] Yeah.

[1818] But that's not the case.

[1819] And then it doesn't happen.

[1820] Have you been tempted to prey on some of these students at UCB?

[1821] No. No. That's easy for you.

[1822] Really?

[1823] I would never.

[1824] Not one of your actual students.

[1825] but the group of people that come.

[1826] No, not the girls in line or anything.

[1827] I mean, like, I certainly at times dated other people in the UCB scene.

[1828] Okay.

[1829] You know what I mean?

[1830] Like coming up, like my peers or the people just above or below me. Who else are you going to meet?

[1831] That's your whole life.

[1832] But no, not like the, not like what Monica described as like the girls at birds or something like that.

[1833] Oh, that would be very hard for me not to indulge in.

[1834] indulgent.

[1835] I find if people know who I am, I'm less interested in them.

[1836] Uh -huh.

[1837] There's something that makes me, it's just that thing of like, oh, is this transactional for you because I'm me to you?

[1838] Yes.

[1839] Yes.

[1840] And that means something in this instance.

[1841] Which in some cases is fine.

[1842] I guess.

[1843] I think you probably heard that on Stern.

[1844] I forget who they were just talking about, but it was like Ronnie or someone said, like, aren't you worried that these girls are just with you because you're you?

[1845] And he goes, I hope that's why you're with me. I was like, oh, that's kind of a revolutionary way to look at it.

[1846] Like, yeah, I guess that is what you want.

[1847] But, uh, I think it's so weird.

[1848] I feel like one time I asked you this.

[1849] I was like, is it weird that I know things about you that you haven't told me?

[1850] Like, in a relationship that must be so weird if you're a public person and you date someone who knows of you or has like watched a video of you and, oh, sure.

[1851] Like, they know things about you that you haven't decided to tell them.

[1852] Sure.

[1853] So strange.

[1854] Well, you know a lot about me, right?

[1855] Yeah.

[1856] You knew I was allergic to eggs.

[1857] I know stuff about me. We've never met before.

[1858] I know.

[1859] But you've, whatever, you've listened to my podcast or a podcast I was on or something.

[1860] And this is partially why I am not on social media or anything like that is like there is enough information about me out there that I have put out there, mostly on podcasts, that is you can get to know part of me. You know, an element of me. And that is very strange if you are talking to, if you meet a woman and you're talking to her.

[1861] And then she knows information about you and you don't know information about her.

[1862] That's odd.

[1863] Yes, but can I offer a theory?

[1864] Sure.

[1865] I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that you really enjoy the winning someone over aspect, the getting approval from somebody that maybe you initially assume wouldn't give you approval.

[1866] Absolutely.

[1867] And if you start, to me, it's why I never understood strip clubs.

[1868] It never appealed to me because it was like, well, they want money.

[1869] Yeah, this is, there's no. I can't buy into the fantasy.

[1870] Yeah, there's, the only thing hot about me is my money.

[1871] People aren't here because they like me. Yeah, so if someone is, you know, inordinately attracted to you without ever having talked to you, it's like there's really no, there's nothing there to prove or to win over or to earn.

[1872] I think, though, the thing that is very real is in success, I have to presume that in a way that is part of the job that I've chosen to pursue, people will know who I am.

[1873] Sure.

[1874] So I can't live in a world in which I would only date someone who has, who's literally like, I don't know who you are.

[1875] Okay, so having achieved or attained that kind of status where people would look up to you and regard you in a way that you probably regarded other comedians.

[1876] Yeah, sure.

[1877] Have you ever connected those dots?

[1878] It's like I, I, in my own life, I like, I hold certain people on this level that I just think they, they were something different than any of us are.

[1879] Oh, yeah, sure.

[1880] Chevy Chase or whatever, whoever these guys are that I looked up to.

[1881] And then occasionally seen in someone's eyes like, holy shit, this person literally looks at me like, I'm Chevy Chase.

[1882] Yeah.

[1883] So, oh, wow, Chevy Chase was just a normal dumb, dumb, too.

[1884] Oh, yeah.

[1885] Everyone's just a dumb, this weird circumstance can create.

[1886] this really fake, heightened, isn't it like, isn't it eye opening, like trembling, trembling to talk to me, like nervous and trembling and like almost in tears because they are about to talk to me. Yeah.

[1887] And I'm like, this is wild.

[1888] This is wild right now.

[1889] It can kind of shatter the whole thing for you personally, which I think is weirdly a healthy thing to do.

[1890] Oh, absolutely.

[1891] I mean, this is like, what luck?

[1892] that the thing we are good at doing and love to do also brings us in success a lot of attention that is in love validating and I'm sure makes us feel good I would do it without that I would do it without being able to be on TV if I could just do it in the theater or whatever but even still that is still the I want those laughs I want that audience like I love that audience yeah that to me is like the dynamic I always want to be in yeah you know me on and with a live audience, that's exciting, you know, whether it's doing the podcast or doing UCB shows or whatever.

[1893] I love that.

[1894] That's exciting to me. And the fact that people take from that an excitement to then talk to me such that it might make them nervous or whatever, I, that's, that's, that's amazing.

[1895] Yeah.

[1896] That's pretty crazy.

[1897] And it does.

[1898] It kind of demystifies the whole thing.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] For me, it's not even like helpful.

[1901] It's not like I'm getting off on that aspect.

[1902] It's helpful for me to.

[1903] right size the way I look at others, I guess.

[1904] Well, I also, and I don't know if you've found this, I also find meeting those people to be itself like a corrective for generally speaking.

[1905] Yeah, yeah, very few people.

[1906] Sure, absolutely.

[1907] Although, I will say, he did say, you did one of the funniest things I've ever seen in real life, even though, yes, we all know about Jeff's in India.

[1908] We were at upfronts and we shared a car back from like the venue back to the hotel.

[1909] And when we got out there's all these people there for Chevy Chase's like people have posters and everything and he like gets out and immediately people Chevy Chips he goes and he goes yes yes I'm feeling much better now thank you for asking and then he just he walked through it it I'm feeling much better now thank you for asking no one asked that he wasn't sick and then just ran through I was like oh my god he really is he's still the guy yeah he's still that 100 % he still got it oh yeah all right well thank you so much for coming in and giving us so much of your time maybe you'll have me on how did this get made we would love to and did you have any ethical reservation about going like oh can we really talk negative about just knowing how hard it is to make these things and how earnestly everyone sets out to totally um i think that the way we kind of come at it is our point of view is we are celebrating these movies we are thoroughly enjoying this right we are not here to be like look at this shitty actor look at this piece of shit what a fucking grind in a slog.

[1910] I hated this, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1911] We are there to be like, whether it's the room or, you know, Miami Connection or any of these kind of amateury movies that somehow get there, or whether it's Green Lantern or the Fast and Furious movies or those kind of things that we also really get into.

[1912] Sure.

[1913] It is always from a point of view of like, I'm excited to talk about this right now.

[1914] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1915] And that's more often than not the approach we take so that we're not we're not trying to tear anything down we all have been in bad movies we all know what it takes to make a movie almost impossible to make a good one it's very hard and we get that and so I think part of what is fun about our show because there's a bunch of shows that do some version of what we do uh I think what is fun about ours is just the the conversation amongst the three of us and our guest is usually a very compelling fun banter between friends right and uh almost I think rarely does it verge on, like, anything, like, negative.

[1916] Real mean.

[1917] We're not trying to trash anything or anyone, really, ever.

[1918] Oh, we're going to have you on.

[1919] You're going to have a blast.

[1920] All right.

[1921] All right.

[1922] Well, thanks again for coming.

[1923] And this is exciting for Monica and me. Monica, fact check it all.

[1924] I gave you a lot of dates to fact check.

[1925] He did.

[1926] A lot of information to fact check.

[1927] Ugh.

[1928] You're going to be a busy beaver.

[1929] A kin to hair play.

[1930] Oh, right up there with hairplay.

[1931] And now my favorite part of the, the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1932] Okay.

[1933] Do you think that triggers people's misophonia?

[1934] Yes, I think it sounds.

[1935] Fingersnapping?

[1936] Crazy.

[1937] I'm spending way, I'm giving these mesophonia people way too much attention.

[1938] Apparently, there's 75 % of our audience has a misophonia.

[1939] We should retitle this podcast to misophonia with Dax Shepard.

[1940] What was I talking about the other day?

[1941] Oh, our friend Laura, she has a weird thing where she can't like have two.

[1942] toothpicks or like wood stuff makes her feel funny and I was like oh that's sort of adjacent to misophonia and then I was like I kind of went back on misophonia I was like huh is it real what is it though eventually probably is more and more like 23 of me data comes in all these different places that are mapping people's genome there'll be a genetic marker for everything like not not wanting wood in your mouth not wanting wood in your mouth peeing sitting down if you're a guy not liking meanness.

[1943] Yeah, predilection towards chocolate over vanilla ice cream.

[1944] Right, right, right.

[1945] Right, right.

[1946] Jason Manzuki.

[1947] So Jason Manzukas, we finally got him on here.

[1948] And you know what's peculiar about Jason Manzukas is, of the many names I've had a hard time pronouncing, his is not one.

[1949] His rolls off my tongue, and it's, it's objectively harder to say than many of the people I've struggled with.

[1950] Of course.

[1951] Brett wines dying.

[1952] Yep.

[1953] You know, the Brett Weinstein thing is just simply muscle memory of having said Weinstein for so many years since I started pursuing acting.

[1954] Yeah, of course.

[1955] The Weinsteins.

[1956] The Weinsteins.

[1957] You sure do.

[1958] And so you just have to break it down.

[1959] You got to shatter that muscle memory.

[1960] You got to take a sledgehammer to it.

[1961] It's hard.

[1962] It's not easy.

[1963] Also, just, you know what, Weinstein?

[1964] Jesus, now I'm confused.

[1965] The Weinsteins.

[1966] Yeah.

[1967] Who's the one that went down?

[1968] Harvey.

[1969] Harvey Weinstein for ruining that name.

[1970] There has to be a million Weinstein's around.

[1971] Yeah, how dare you ruin that name?

[1972] What a jerk.

[1973] That's the bad thing you did.

[1974] Also, fuck you, Adolf Hitler.

[1975] If someone gives you the name Adolf, you are fucked.

[1976] He wiped out a name.

[1977] There's a whole name that no one can be called anymore.

[1978] Adolf Shepard.

[1979] I name my daughter, Adolf Shepard.

[1980] No. Oh, my God, it can't be done.

[1981] Or Pol Pot?

[1982] Fuck you, Pol Pot.

[1983] I'm sure there's someone in Cambodia that would love to name their child Pol Pot.

[1984] Now they can't.

[1985] I mean, although it goes kind of both ways, because even if it's like a really good, like an Oprah, if you name your kid Oprah Shepard, like that's also not allowed.

[1986] Her name's also been taken off.

[1987] I guarantee there's some Oprah's around the country.

[1988] There might be some Adolfs.

[1989] I don't think so.

[1990] I'm going to look.

[1991] They always even trips me out when those.

[1992] Those Coors commercials come on.

[1993] Have you ever seen those?

[1994] No. There's a Coors beer, which I love Coors beer commercials, and they are generally narrated by my co -star and friend and Ido, Sam Elliott, which is great.

[1995] Oh, great.

[1996] But they used to have this commercial that would tell you the history of the Coors family.

[1997] And one of their names was Adolf Coors.

[1998] You know, it was before Adolf Hitler.

[1999] Sure.

[2000] But just even in the commercial, I didn't love it.

[2001] I was like, well, I don't know if I want to drink this beer.

[2002] Adolf Coors.

[2003] Oh, wow.

[2004] How, you recoiled?

[2005] Do you hate Jewish people?

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] Oh, my.

[2008] It's just he so thoroughly sullied that name, Adolf.

[2009] It's gone.

[2010] You talked about your mom's cholesterol being low.

[2011] I did?

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] No, her blood pressure.

[2014] No, her cholesterol is high.

[2015] You said her cholesterol was low.

[2016] And it had come back low because Barton, her husband, had passed away.

[2017] And so she's been, like, eating better just by proxy, I guess, to that event.

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] And you said her cholesterol is low.

[2020] Lower.

[2021] But you said low.

[2022] Like it was something to be celebrated.

[2023] Okay.

[2024] That was a mistake because I don't think it's low.

[2025] Okay.

[2026] Well, I asked her.

[2027] Sure.

[2028] And she doesn't know.

[2029] But she doesn't know.

[2030] She couldn't tell me, unfortunately.

[2031] Well, the story she told me is that it was high.

[2032] She was considering getting on a statin.

[2033] Yeah.

[2034] And then she changed her eating post -Barton dying.

[2035] And it came back within a suitable.

[2036] range.

[2037] I don't think though it's low.

[2038] I think it's probably still on the upper edge of what is acceptable.

[2039] Now we know.

[2040] So fact was checked by you.

[2041] That's good.

[2042] You tell the story about Will Forte on a plane and he's talking with his half beard face and then turns and it's gone.

[2043] And you said that Mike, sure, told you that story.

[2044] So I emailed Mike to get some corroboration.

[2045] Oh, I'd love to hear what that was.

[2046] No, you don't get to hear that one.

[2047] Hi, Mike.

[2048] Hey, what are you doing?

[2049] Anyways, I'm babbling.

[2050] Anyways, I was calling.

[2051] Wait, I'm not even calling.

[2052] I'm emailing.

[2053] Oh, I'm so embarrassed.

[2054] Anyways.

[2055] Okay.

[2056] Have you ever met Will Forte?

[2057] Well, of course you met Will Forte.

[2058] He used to write for him.

[2059] You're so talented.

[2060] You've written for like everyone now that I think about it.

[2061] I mean, you're not that far off.

[2062] Okay.

[2063] So he said, I do have a story about seeing Will on a plane unexpectedly, but it's a different story.

[2064] Mine is that I was loading my bag into the overhead bin and heard a voice say, ma 'am, can you please move so I can sit with my friend?

[2065] And it was Will with this crazy full beard, and he sat next to me and played Candy Crush for six hours.

[2066] Oh, okay.

[2067] So then he said, I kind of remember the other story, too, must be a mutual friend who told us, but I forget who it was.

[2068] Oh, yeah.

[2069] I wonder if you're out there and you listen, which is a very low percentage chance, please reach out.

[2070] to us.

[2071] But someone did have that experience.

[2072] Someone did who knows both Mike and you.

[2073] So I'm going to guess and Will.

[2074] And Will.

[2075] It's probably someone on The Good Place.

[2076] Could it be Morgan Sackett.

[2077] Could have been Arnett.

[2078] It could have been Bateman.

[2079] It could have been.

[2080] That circle's pretty.

[2081] But I bet you guys were together when you heard that story.

[2082] So I assume it was a good place event.

[2083] Maybe.

[2084] So.

[2085] Maybe.

[2086] I hope we find out.

[2087] Yeah, me too.

[2088] It's a good mystery.

[2089] Unless it's like, do we have any enemies?

[2090] I don't really have any enemies.

[2091] I don't have any.

[2092] Only frenemies.

[2093] Only frenemies.

[2094] Yeah.

[2095] Where do you buy really long Q -tips?

[2096] You can get them at Amazon.

[2097] You could get them at Walmart.

[2098] Because I know what you're going to say is there wasn't Amazon when you were a kid and they were doing lice with those long Q -tips.

[2099] So they probably got them at Walmart.

[2100] You know, and even that, I mean, of course, the Walt and Sam Walton started Walmart by the time I was in elementary, but it was not nationwide when I was in.

[2101] Okay.

[2102] In second grade, or at least there's no Walmarts in a like 100 mile radius of my town, I can say.

[2103] I imagine the school nurse at Spring Mills Elementary ordered all them somehow.

[2104] I know, but how?

[2105] Oh, yeah, like a catalog.

[2106] Like a catalog, wrote a letter.

[2107] That's what I'm saying.

[2108] Oh, my God.

[2109] I can't believe anything got done in the 80s.

[2110] It's a real question.

[2111] How did people get long Q -tips?

[2112] Like anything specialized.

[2113] How did anyone get anything specialized?

[2114] What stores did they have in Michigan when you were a kid?

[2115] Kmart's.

[2116] Okay, so maybe Kmart's.

[2117] Yeah, they probably went to Kmart's.

[2118] Although Kmart is so generic.

[2119] Like, I don't think they would have a specialty item like that.

[2120] I fucking loved Kmart's as a kid.

[2121] My Papa Bob would take me there on a Saturday and I got to pick out a hot wheel car.

[2122] Oh, that's so nice.

[2123] And then we would stop at Arbys.

[2124] Oh, my, what a day.

[2125] Or we would go to Ponderosa, which was an all -you -can -eat bar, or Duffs.

[2126] Okay, what's that?

[2127] Another All You Can Eat Plate.

[2128] And that was the Mecca.

[2129] That was Mount Everest of All You Can Eat Bars, Duffs.

[2130] This had two giant wheels that spun.

[2131] And the size of, I bet the diameter of these wheels, I'm not joking you, Monica, was 20 feet wide.

[2132] These two gigantic wheels sitting horizontal parallel to the ground.

[2133] And half of the wheel was exposed, and it spun.

[2134] And it spun because when it went to the, behind.

[2135] behind the wall.

[2136] That's where all the chefs were.

[2137] And they'd refill all the fried chicken or the macaroni and cheese.

[2138] And it was just always in motion.

[2139] Oh, did I love it.

[2140] And then one was fixed.

[2141] It was stationary and it was only about 10 feet in diameter.

[2142] And that's where the snacks were.

[2143] Okay.

[2144] The bread pudding.

[2145] The jello.

[2146] Vanilla wafer pie, banana cream pie.

[2147] Brownies.

[2148] Do they have soft serve?

[2149] Yes, they had soft serve.

[2150] Okay, great.

[2151] And then just one last thing about duffes and it might have been duffies but i think it was duff was it was it duff maybe duff yeah it's probably just duff but one time i loved that place more than anything papa bob would take me there my brother and i would go ape shit we'd eat so much food one time we were there and there was another diner okay who had a terrible cauliflower ear the worst i've ever seen to this day he had the most pronounced cauliflower ear i've ever seen in my life and i just as an eight -year -old i couldn't stop staring at even though it was making me so sick and I couldn't look away and it fucking ruined my entire trip to Duffs or Duffies or Duffies.

[2152] It's Duff's buffet.

[2153] Oh, Duff's Buffet.

[2154] Thank God.

[2155] So did you continue to eat while you were staring at it?

[2156] Couldn't do it.

[2157] Could not do it.

[2158] No, I ruined my whole thing.

[2159] And then I were like, look away long enough where I'd get my appetite back and I'd go to take a bite.

[2160] And right before I took a bite, I'd force myself to look over at those ears.

[2161] His fucking ears were the size of these headphones I'm wearing.

[2162] Yeah, I like, I like, I was nervous they were going to pop while he was.

[2163] I think he's still with us.

[2164] No, no, no, no. Because he, I was eight and he was clearly 55 or something.

[2165] Oh.

[2166] But, you know, he probably was a wrestling champ.

[2167] I'm sure.

[2168] He probably had a very glorious life.

[2169] What if it was Muhammad Ali?

[2170] It was not Muhammad Ali.

[2171] And Muhammad Ali did not have cauliflower ear.

[2172] Mohamed Ali was at Duff and you saw him there.

[2173] Pounding a bunch of, you know, I don't know what to say about that.

[2174] I guess if I, let's just say I had cauliflower ear that bad.

[2175] and I was going to an all you can eat restaurant I'd put something over my ears just out of he has to be courteous to everyone else That's so horrible He has to live He does he has to live with it Not the rest of us So he can cover those up How will he hear?

[2176] Like if I have Ruin his whole life If he has to wear earmuffs everywhere What if I had a fucking Like humongous herpy on my lip I want to go to an all you can eat place Why?

[2177] Just I'll wait until it's better or something Well I don't think that gets better Isn't that a permanent condition?

[2178] It seems so.

[2179] Yeah.

[2180] Well, let's put it this way.

[2181] There's no way that if he could have gotten rid of it that he wouldn't have because it was something.

[2182] Funny the things you remember as a kid.

[2183] Like, you remember the gross.

[2184] I also remember this.

[2185] I saw a horse poop in the woods one time walking by my Papa Bob's house.

[2186] And I saw it and it was the grossest poop I've ever seen in my life.

[2187] And then I walked away.

[2188] And then I fucking made myself walk back and look at it again.

[2189] It grossed me out so bad.

[2190] I walked away.

[2191] And I did this three or four times until I threw up.

[2192] I don't.

[2193] What is that?

[2194] I don't know.

[2195] It is a weird thing.

[2196] thing i have that too but i don't think maybe to that extent i don't know yeah not like ex game style like i was like what's the feeling in your body when you're when that's happening i guess um just compulsion powerlessness but do you feel a sensation in your body yeah i'm a mess like i was all a titter i all my senses were on overload my stomach hurt i i couldn't stop there was i mean i'm not going to do it but i could describe it don't describe it i'm not going to i'm not going to to me and I don't want that on here.

[2197] No, no, no. I won't do that.

[2198] I, but just, there was a specific portion of it that I, of course, had to zero in on.

[2199] It was so repulsive.

[2200] I want to know, we got to get Brett Weinstein back in here.

[2201] No, Weinstein.

[2202] It can't be said.

[2203] Weinstein.

[2204] We got to get Brett Weinstein on here.

[2205] And tell me evolutionarily why I had to go back and look until I threw up.

[2206] Like, do my body need to throw up?

[2207] in fear that I had eaten whatever this disgusting thing that person had eaten?

[2208] Is it like that?

[2209] Maybe.

[2210] I think that's how puking works.

[2211] I think that's why people want to puke when they see other people puk because presumably you all ate in a group and you all shared the same food.

[2212] So if that person's sick, you better get it out now too.

[2213] I think that's the reason, yes.

[2214] The quicker you get it out, the better.

[2215] So if you see someone in your group throwing up, your body knows.

[2216] But what if you just see it on the TV or something?

[2217] Do you think it still happens?

[2218] I don't feel the desire to throw up when I see people throw up on TV.

[2219] Do you?

[2220] No, but no. I throw up in every movie I make.

[2221] I don't have that, but I have a whole weird pathology with...

[2222] Poop?

[2223] With sickness.

[2224] Oh, sickness, yes.

[2225] So that's its own thing.

[2226] But I think maybe the sensation I feel is similar in that moment to whatever you had in your poop.

[2227] But isn't yours horniness?

[2228] Okay, so that's an element that happens.

[2229] There's a lot happening.

[2230] Right.

[2231] Well, I definitely did not feel horny, but I was also eight years old.

[2232] I don't think I had yet felt horny.

[2233] So maybe you didn't.

[2234] You didn't know it.

[2235] Perhaps.

[2236] Anyway.

[2237] Talk about a sidebar.

[2238] So we talk a lot about hair play and massages.

[2239] And it got really intimate.

[2240] I didn't ask my friend if it was okay.

[2241] Oh.

[2242] So sorry, Gina, if you're not okay with the fact that now everyone knows that we do hairplay and massages and it's not sexual.

[2243] Yet.

[2244] Yet.

[2245] It's not sexual, but it feels good.

[2246] I imagine, in my dream scenario, you guys are like 77 -year -old ladies, your gray hair, you're playing with each other's gray hair, and then one of you just slowly turns around and locks eyes, and you realize, like, let's try it.

[2247] We've been putting this off for 60 years.

[2248] It's really funny, because I do see from the outside how it.

[2249] It reads sexual.

[2250] It reads sexual.

[2251] It does.

[2252] And I can see that objectively.

[2253] But it's just so interesting.

[2254] Like when we're, it's so not.

[2255] Very plutonic.

[2256] It's incredibly non -sexual.

[2257] But still very pleasurable.

[2258] Exactly.

[2259] So that's weird.

[2260] Because, yeah, you are getting pleasured in a way.

[2261] Yeah.

[2262] You sure are.

[2263] But do people, look, when people go to get a massage.

[2264] Yeah.

[2265] They're not, it's not sexual.

[2266] I generally climax.

[2267] six or seven times during a rant a massage.

[2268] No. But I do have weird thoughts when I'm getting a massage for sure.

[2269] You do?

[2270] Mm -hmm.

[2271] That's why I prefer to get massaged by a guy because then I'm not thinking any weird thoughts.

[2272] Oh.

[2273] Yeah.

[2274] Then I can just enjoy the massage.

[2275] So if it's a female, you are feeling like horny.

[2276] Well, no, it's just, you know, unlike you for a female, I have all this junk between my legs, right?

[2277] Testicles penis.

[2278] Some stuff between my legs, too, just letting you know.

[2279] Well, nothing, no protuberance.

[2280] Right.

[2281] No protuberance.

[2282] So I have all this dangly stuff down there.

[2283] So, like, when I flip over, like my penis is flopping around.

[2284] And then as they massage your legs, like, they might graze your penis.

[2285] And then just, of course, if your penis gets grazed, then just something in your brain comes online.

[2286] And it's kind of involuntary and just happens.

[2287] Like, no one's grazing your clitoris.

[2288] Are they during a massage?

[2289] Not that I can recall.

[2290] Right.

[2291] No, no. Or how about a nipple?

[2292] Have you ever had that grazed?

[2293] Probably.

[2294] And doesn't that then ignite some kind of weird, it's an erogenous zone.

[2295] It is.

[2296] It doesn't make me feel horny, though.

[2297] It makes me feel like, oh.

[2298] Scared?

[2299] Yeah, like, ah, what's happening?

[2300] What is happening now?

[2301] Where are we going with this?

[2302] Yeah.

[2303] I will say, when I'm getting waxed, sometimes I'm kind of constantly thinking like.

[2304] Don't get aroused.

[2305] Don't start thinking about.

[2306] something that might make me get aroused.

[2307] Yeah.

[2308] I get like kind of panicky in that situation.

[2309] My brain's going to like go there.

[2310] Now imagine being a guy.

[2311] Every guy has that exact same fear when they're getting their penis and testicles examinants, generally by a dude.

[2312] And you're just, you're panicking.

[2313] You're in your mind.

[2314] You're like, oh my God, please don't get aroused and send a wrong signal.

[2315] Yeah.

[2316] And it becomes a preoccupation.

[2317] And then you're then all that communication with your penis and testicles can then result in some unwanted stiffness.

[2318] I have to imagine a lot of guys are getting erect during these examinations.

[2319] I'm sure they are.

[2320] I wish there was some data on that.

[2321] I'll look into it.

[2322] Okay.

[2323] Is a portion of Cyprus contested land with Turkey?

[2324] Yes, he was correct.

[2325] The Cyprus dispute, also known as the Cyprus conflict, is the ongoing dispute between the two communities on the island and the Turkish military and invasion and occupation of the northern third of Cyprus since 1974.

[2326] Although the Republic of Cyprus is recognized as a sole legitimate state sovereign over all the island, the north is under the de facto administration of the self -declared Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is guarded by Turkish armed forces.

[2327] Only Turkey recognizes the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, while there is a broad recognition that the ongoing military presence constitutes occupation of territories that belong to the Republic of Cyprus.

[2328] So it's a whole thing.

[2329] I have never heard of that.

[2330] Yeah.

[2331] Wow.

[2332] Thank you, Manzukas.

[2333] Yeah, thank you.

[2334] He was nervous.

[2335] He was wrong and he was right.

[2336] Okay, so he brings up Shelley Ms. Cavage.

[2337] And just in case people don't know who she is, she is the wife of the Scientology leader, David Ms. Cavage.

[2338] Right, who has some allegations of physical abuse against him.

[2339] Well, and she, her, her whereabouts are unknown.

[2340] Yeah.

[2341] Are they still unknown?

[2342] Yeah, they remain unknown.

[2343] Oh, really?

[2344] That's been a long time.

[2345] So Leah Remini, the actress, who was a Scientologist, and now is like a pretty vocal critic of it, I guess she filed a missing person report with LAPD in 2013.

[2346] And then there was a story in the L .A. Times based on information from an anonymous LAP, PD source, they said they contacted her and then they closed the case.

[2347] Oh, okay.

[2348] But no one knows where she is.

[2349] All right.

[2350] Well, she knows where she is.

[2351] She does.

[2352] Well, this is a great opportunity for me to bring something up that's been bothering me a little bit.

[2353] Now, there's very few of these comments, so I'm overreacting.

[2354] But there were several comments about why I didn't quiz Michael Payne about being a Scientologist.

[2355] Oh, okay.

[2356] And I want to be very definitive about this.

[2357] Okay.

[2358] uh whatever uh transgressions you believe the church of scientology is guilty of whether it is being physically abusive uh or having uh indentured servants or any number of these allegations um i can promise you that michael painia has not committed any of these transgressions that uh they are alleged to have committed i know that uh for certain that he's not beating anyone up or he doesn't have any indentured servants at his house.

[2359] So the reason I don't have to ask him or feel compelled to ask him to defend that is the same reason I would not ask a Catholic guest on this podcast to spend their time being interviewed defending the priests who have molested boys.

[2360] I would not ask a Jewish guest to defend the Hasidic misogyny against the women that exists.

[2361] I wouldn't ask a Muslim guest to defend jihadist.

[2362] That's not how it works on this show.

[2363] And just because he happens to be a member of a group that you like less than the Catholics, doesn't mean that I'm going to make him defend people's actions that he himself hasn't committed.

[2364] So going forward, that'll always be the case on this show.

[2365] Yeah.

[2366] We're also not here to make people uncomfortable.

[2367] No, I'm here to learn about Michael Pena, not about the Church of Scientology.

[2368] Now, I wanted to do it with Erica because she wanted to do it.

[2369] And that was a great opportunity for us to hear from someone who's inside what her experience was.

[2370] And we've also heard what the Leah Remini's experience was.

[2371] We've heard what the folks who may going clear believe about the church.

[2372] So you're hearing all of it.

[2373] And if someone wants to talk about that, that's great.

[2374] But it's not my position to make people defend actions that they are not theirs.

[2375] Right.

[2376] Okay.

[2377] Okay.

[2378] So you talk about Charlestown and Boston and you do it.

[2379] Charlestown?

[2380] Yep.

[2381] So that is just something, that's another word like Neanderthal and Arras.

[2382] orangutan that I'm never going to say the way I do.

[2383] I don't know that I say it right.

[2384] I just always like to imitate the people who are from Charlestown.

[2385] Right, right, right.

[2386] And the great movie, The Town, your boyfriend's movie, The Town, is about Charlestown.

[2387] Right, right.

[2388] I'm still going to pronounce it Charles Town.

[2389] Okay, great.

[2390] Yeah.

[2391] Oh, this is an unfortunate moment where we're sort of outed by sometimes releasing things out of order sometimes time has elapsed you know because we talk about the bickram yoga podcast he is telling us about the bickram yoga podcast so we had not listened yet and we have since listened and talked about it so you know look and that's 30 for 30s podcast exactly exactly so it was a little out of order and now you know world yep there's some witchcraft and hijinks going on behind the scenes here that's right Okay, he said he got, he had just gotten his first email in 1995, uh, when he was on his trip.

[2392] The first major commercial internet service providers hit the scene in the early 1990s through 1995.

[2393] AOL prodigy and comp you serve all showed up during then.

[2394] At that time, and still, ISPs would give users an email address automatically.

[2395] But popular webmail services like hot mail started popping up in 1996, 1996.

[2396] Yeah.

[2397] Do you remember when you got your first email?

[2398] Oh, yeah.

[2399] What was your email address?

[2400] Do you remember it?

[2401] Oh, so annoying.

[2402] People hated it.

[2403] It was AOL.

[2404] Yeah.

[2405] It was Dax.

[2406] 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

[2407] Because I think you were entitled to 10 characters.

[2408] And here's what happened.

[2409] I typed in Dax, taken.

[2410] T typed in Dax 1, taken.

[2411] T typed in Dax 1, 2, taken.

[2412] And I got frustrated and impatient.

[2413] So then I just went all the way to fucking 10.

[2414] And then everyone had to pay the price for that for eternity and they hated it.

[2415] those days are over for me. Oh, wow.

[2416] That account also got hacked about 36 times before I finally got rid of it.

[2417] Really?

[2418] Yeah.

[2419] Yeah.

[2420] That's not good.

[2421] Not good for AOL.

[2422] I think they're not a sponsor.

[2423] My first email was Cuppie Cake Chick at AOL.

[2424] Oh, Cupby Cake Chick at AOL.

[2425] And that was my name and that was my email.

[2426] I think I've said this before because it was still my email through high school.

[2427] So when I applied to college, that was my email.

[2428] And my dad was so concerned.

[2429] He was like, they're not going to let you into college with this email.

[2430] I'd have a similar concern.

[2431] He was nervous.

[2432] Wants Dick, 1988.

[2433] And then you're applying to like Harvard.

[2434] Exactly.

[2435] And he didn't really say it on here.

[2436] I mean, I think it was clear.

[2437] And I'm sure people already know.

[2438] But I just want to be really clear at how big of a deal he.

[2439] is at UCB.

[2440] Okay.

[2441] He is a big...

[2442] Oprah big deal.

[2443] He's at Oprah.

[2444] And it's earned.

[2445] It's earned.

[2446] He's so good.

[2447] But his shows sell out immediately their hot ticket shows.

[2448] He's an improv god.

[2449] He really is.

[2450] And I just wanted everyone to know because he's, of course, not going to say that.

[2451] Yeah.

[2452] And if anyone gets a chance to see him do it, you should.

[2453] Not to be missed.

[2454] Impressive, yeah.

[2455] Amy Puller went to SNL in, during the 2001 -2002 season, her debut episode being the first one produced after the 9 -11 attacks.

[2456] He was right.

[2457] Yeah.

[2458] Okay.

[2459] And then also just to wrap up, I just felt like such a fan girl.

[2460] But I didn't, I wasn't, like, but I could feel that it was, I was nervous it was coming off like that.

[2461] And I didn't like that.

[2462] I love it.

[2463] I know.

[2464] You made it so much worse.

[2465] There's nothing more endearing than seeing someone love something and be a fan of something.

[2466] I find it to be the most endearing thing ever.

[2467] But not people.

[2468] Yes, people.

[2469] I don't.

[2470] I disagree.

[2471] Who wouldn't enjoy it?

[2472] I can't imagine.

[2473] Even if Brad Pitt sat right there and it turned out he was a mega fan of mine, the whole thing would be so pleasurable.

[2474] Okay, but if Brad Pitt sat right here and you were like fanning out and then I was pushing that you were.

[2475] I expect you to if he ever sits there.

[2476] No. He'll like it.

[2477] And I don't think so.

[2478] I think to an extent, yes, and then it's uncomfortable.

[2479] I think what you're mapping on to it is the status differentiation.

[2480] And I think you think if someone, if the higher status person is a huge fan of the lower status person, it's totally endearing and likable.

[2481] But if a lower status person is a huge fan of a higher status person, it's annoying to the higher status person.

[2482] I'm arguing that it's not.

[2483] It's always lovely to find out someone really loves what you've done.

[2484] I guess that's true.

[2485] I mean, imagine like a 19 -year -old girl comes in here and she just stares at you the whole time and she keeps telling you all the favorite things you've said and she just likes you so much and looks up to you.

[2486] You wouldn't dislike that or?

[2487] No. I mean, I wouldn't dislike it, but it might make me a little uncomfortable because then I'm a person she's already decided stuff about and like puts on maybe a pedestal or something.

[2488] And I don't, I am not comfortable with that.

[2489] I like just a normal relationship normal talking, getting to know people thing.

[2490] I think that gets hindered when someone is idolizing you.

[2491] Yeah, or you think they are.

[2492] Mm -hmm.

[2493] I don't think you could have a real relationship with anyone like that or even like a real actual conversation.

[2494] Right.

[2495] But you were a super fan of Kristen's.

[2496] Right, but yeah, I was.

[2497] Yeah.

[2498] But not when I knew her.

[2499] I mean, I was.

[2500] I am.

[2501] I still am.

[2502] Yeah.

[2503] You're like Veronica Marr's one of your favorite shows.

[2504] Oh, my God.

[2505] I love it.

[2506] Once I met her, I hated her.

[2507] No. Once I met her, I was not like, you know, I saw Veronica Mars and I, I just, I love it.

[2508] Well, that's just because you're self -aware.

[2509] Like, I wasn't doing any of that.

[2510] But you also weren't.

[2511] I was kind of doing that here because of the interview.

[2512] But, again, the context is much different.

[2513] So with Kristen, you didn't feel like, oh, my God, this is my only 15 minutes I'm ever going to be around this person.

[2514] I have to tell them what I think about them.

[2515] You're like, oh, I'm going to be in this person's life.

[2516] There's no pressure for me to express to them how I feel about them.

[2517] Whereas if someone came and sat here in on an episode with you, they would in their mind be like, this is my only chance to tell Monica how much she's moved to me. Right.

[2518] Yeah, I don't know.

[2519] I just, I think I'm going to, I'm going to do a contest.

[2520] Anyone who believes that they are a legitimate super fan of Monica.

[2521] Oh, no, we're not doing this.

[2522] We're going to, we're going to, we're going to, no, we're going to do a charity and they're going to win.

[2523] A charity.

[2524] Yeah, we're going to raise 10 or 12 bucks, and we're going to get someone in here to super fan you, and I can't wait.

[2525] Okay.

[2526] All right.

[2527] I love you.

[2528] I love you.

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