The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] If I knew now, what I knew then, I would have done a different journey.
[1] And the Grammy goes to dance album.
[2] DJ of the year.
[3] Diplo!
[4] Diplo!
[5] And I just remember, I did this whole circuit working all these young rappers, and they were like really young.
[6] They were like 19, 20, and these rappers all started to die.
[7] You know, Little Peep, Overdose X was shot.
[8] Nobody really cares about all the adoration you get.
[9] You care about the people that don't like you.
[10] And you get caught up in that.
[11] It's not a consistent paycheck.
[12] Music never is.
[13] and it wasn't for me for three, four years.
[14] One month, I'm not doing good.
[15] I can't pay rent.
[16] I'm homeless.
[17] What's the sacrifice or the cost in terms of like personal life balance?
[18] I have to answer that?
[19] Yeah.
[20] Whenever I do this podcast, I always get really intrigued by the formative years of someone's life.
[21] And in your story, it seemed like a very, very humble beginning.
[22] When I look at where you started under the age of 14, I couldn't quite piece together myself, obviously.
[23] how that early upbringing had led you to becoming who you are today.
[24] Is there anything from below the age of say like 14 that you can point at and say if that hadn't have happened or if I hadn't had that experience or that interaction with a family member or a grandfather, whatever it might be, I don't think I would be here today.
[25] I didn't start really producing releasing music until my mid -20s because it was pretty late.
[26] I was doing things but not actually at a level where I could quit my job and it's my main source of income.
[27] but when I was younger I was a pretty bad kid I was bouncing from high schools in different middle schools and I was actually sent to a military school at one point at like that age like 14 and I even got expelled from there and then like that was like the last my last shot right and I came back they let me back in because it cost my family like a lot of money it was like $3 ,000 for me to go there because I was I was getting sent at every school but going to the military school maybe if anything it taught me me how to like if I was going to do something criminal or like something bad like it was bad be a little smarter about it if anything because everybody there was like criminal the whole military school was just a bunch of terrible kids and they were like really knew what they were doing um so if anything i kind of like it was like learning from the school hard knocks you know but i think being in military school even that there was only like for one year um and my father he was a vietnam vet and you know i think i can attribute his his concept of discipline to it, you know, like, no matter how bad I was and how much I disagree with my father, he gave me the most complex rules of what discipline means, what it, what it is to apply in whatever you're doing.
[28] And I didn't realize that until I was older, that, you know, all these, what makes my story successful, like, what makes me a better DJ or what makes me better songwriter.
[29] It really, I don't have the technical abilities, but I have, I always apply myself to find a goal, you know, and I really feel like that's what my father gave me before, before I, I turned into an adult because it's just something I had inside me that separated me from everybody else when I got into the music business.
[30] Work ethic was such a clear thread throughout your story, like relentless almost at times it seemed somewhat obsessive work ethic.
[31] And it's funny because when I hear about your early upbringing, I guess my assumption is because it sounds quite similar to mine, getting kicked out of school and being the only kid out of four siblings that was like always getting bad grades, always an exclusion.
[32] Did people around you think you were going nowhere at that point.
[33] 100%.
[34] Yeah.
[35] I mean, even until the mid -20s, my father was like, how did you buy this house?
[36] Like, how did you, what are you doing?
[37] Like, there's no, there's no way possibly you're making money with music.
[38] Like, there's just no possible way.
[39] And I went to college, I went for, um, I went to UCF, like a little community college because I couldn't afford like a real school.
[40] I did two years there just basically just getting, just being in a school so that I could have something to advance forward.
[41] And I went to Temple University in Philly and I ended up dropping out of that school.
[42] But I went, for anthropology in filmmaking so it was like a really two other degrees that would literally turn into no job but i was obsessed with documentary filmmaking i thought that would be something i could i could do i was obsessed with culture i was obsessed with humans and people and the steady of culture and i was we know as a young person i was reading national geographic all time and watching documentary so that was something i was like how do i apply that you know and my father's also like this is a huge mistake what are you doing what about accounting that's a great degree to have um in the end i think what I'd learned at that university was um because in the film program it was like there was a lot of creative avenues I could learn from and the people who were professors were almost like filmmakers that didn't make it and they have to be professors it kind of feels like so like what am I doing here I don't want to learn these people aren't aren't even in the business you know so the real business is like going out and making it yourself and I think I just did that set 30 year I was like I'm out of school but I kind of wish I had dropped out of college earlier and had a head start because it took you a while when you're paying your college tuition and working and it's so time consuming and then eventually I started to to do music and do those odd jobs like DJing to where I was like oh I can kind of like quit my jobs now and also like yeah I think if I knew now what I knew then I would have done a different journey but I think that was what makes you who you are you know no matter how long it takes and eventually you make that decision to sort start heading towards music right even though it's not paying you at all and I was reading about the you were doing in that period of your life.
[43] You worked at a zoo at one point.
[44] You were a social worker at one point.
[45] Yeah.
[46] How long did that period of your life, when you'd made the decision to move towards music and that music was going to be your thing?
[47] How long was that?
[48] It definitely wasn't, I mean, I, at 22 years old, I was already working like nine to five, you know?
[49] It was like, the social work job was my first job as like, this is a job that feels good to do.
[50] Like, you know, I'm working with children.
[51] I was going between teaching kids and then have the school program.
[52] And it just felt like, okay, this is cool.
[53] um it feels like i'm doing something for somebody instead of working at like subway and making money for the head of subway which is kind of like a waste of my energy but working with kids i felt a little bit like i i felt fulfilled you know i think but then you run into the bureaucracy of of i was in a city like philadelphia so it was just like so much corruption even in like the social work world it was crazy um eventually i was getting beaten down at that job too i was like this is this is my life like 22 I'm like this is this is all I can look forward to is like building my way into like this job or this job and I think I started DJing on the side at parties and learning from the DJs there because Philadelphia is a famous city for DJing it's like culturally one of the most important cities in America for hip hop for DJing and I just started doing parties and then I saw what you do if you do your own party like you can invest invest in yourself and promote a party and then you take everything, right?
[54] So I started learning small little business acumen from just doing parties.
[55] And then eventually I started, I can quit my job.
[56] It was a huge step because at that point, you don't know when you're doing music and parties full time, it's literally up to how much you're working or what you're doing to keep the money flowing to pay the rent.
[57] If I don't, one month I'm not doing good, I can't pay rent.
[58] I'm homeless.
[59] It's not a consistent paycheck.
[60] Music never is.
[61] And it wasn't for me for probably three, four years.
[62] But yeah, it took, it just, It's literally just putting your boots to the ground and like doing the work and like failing at it and learning what makes you better, what makes you more money.
[63] Like what's how do you grow this business, even in these little small steps.
[64] That's kind of what I did in those first years of my career.
[65] And I wasn't even really making my own music yet.
[66] I was just DJing and making mixtapes and making edits and learning how to use computers still.
[67] Like I had nobody to teach me. I was buying hardware or, you know, in high school shoplifting from Sam Goody and Sam Ash and like guitar center and like samplers to use.
[68] So it really just came down to just the grind to figure out what works and what doesn't.
[69] It was so evident even when I was hearing about you like in the record stores and ultimately selling a record to can't.
[70] Are they vinyl?
[71] You were selling to canine samples and stuff.
[72] But throughout that, even like the story about you reading, was it William Faulkner's book?
[73] Yeah.
[74] And you had this clear hunger for learning, like teaching yourself how to make music, teaching yourself computers, teaching yourself the business side of things.
[75] Most people don't have a predisposition just to figure stuff out.
[76] Yeah.
[77] And that, again, when I'm trying to figure out exactly how you became this global superstar, I'm like, that feels to be a consistent thread throughout your story as well, that learning hunger.
[78] I think when you think about what a DJ is, you know, now they're like David Getta, they're headlining festivals or even me. Like, I'm headlining my own shows.
[79] But back when I was growing up, you know, the big DJs from, say, Detroit, like the magician or like, you know, Afroband Bada, people that were DJs were like the selectors.
[80] They were like the guys who did all the work to know what music is there, what this music is, how this music exists.
[81] And they were like kind of the cultural benchmark.
[82] They were the guys who cataloged everything to distribute in the scene, right?
[83] So I think I loved that.
[84] Like I was like, I love music.
[85] Like I love what it is.
[86] I loved and I went to parties and I remember seeing people like Questlove and like cash money and these DJs like Cosmovaker playing crazy records like playing philicudy and then playing like a disco record and then playing something new like a local hip hop record.
[87] like and then they're playing like Babe Ruth like a old rock and roll record.
[88] I was I was so obsessed with how they could connect these things that don't make any sense musically.
[89] And that's what I always thought was the great I think story of what DJs do is they're like guys who can process all this culture and give it to you in a certain way.
[90] And now it's more stream like you're going to go to a house party, hear house music.
[91] You're going to go to like a bashed party here, dance hall.
[92] But the really special DJs were able to like do everything.
[93] And so I think when I learned that was like a skill set, I started looking at vinyl.
[94] I started learning about different music.
[95] I would like ask DJs, what does that record be playing?
[96] Who are these artists?
[97] Like, what is Felakudi?
[98] Where's, where's Nigeria?
[99] Where do they make music?
[100] Like, what's it sound like?
[101] You know, then I'm like, we're the producers.
[102] Like, oh, the guy from the who went to Nigeria and was a drummer there.
[103] And then he went back and did this.
[104] And then, oh, James Brown heard this guy.
[105] Then he hired another drummer.
[106] This is like, became like a web of music.
[107] I started to follow everything and read liner notes.
[108] And then I just was obsessed with with gaining all the knowledge about music, whatever I could and using that to apply to being a DJ.
[109] That obsession just led me to being a record collector.
[110] Like I said, I traveled a little bit.
[111] At the end of my university, I went to India with one of my professors to work on a documentary.
[112] And the border of Pakistan in India is called in Gujarat.
[113] It was like this little, kind of like a valley called the Round of Cush.
[114] There was a huge earthquake there, I think, around 2000.
[115] And I was there doing some sort of building work and, you know, working with Red Cross and things like that.
[116] And then I just kind of bounced and took a motorcycle and just went all over India and just explored my own.
[117] And I bought a bunch of vinyl.
[118] At the time, the most expensive record in the world with these Beatles 78s, they're like Beatles records, but at 78 RPM.
[119] If you find good ones in India, they're only make many, if you find good ones, they're worth like a thousand, a couple thousand dollars.
[120] But I was finding Indian soundtracks.
[121] I was finding things like, um, there's a, a classic Indian soundtrack called Shalimar with like crazy, like, spy themes and like break beats on it at the time.
[122] If you find one of those at a record shop, pay like a, you know, a couple rupees, you can bring it back to to London and sell it at like Poland Street for like, you know, 300 pounds.
[123] So that was like this weird hack I found, like traveling and buying records.
[124] I did it in India.
[125] I did it in Philadelphia.
[126] I would go to New Jersey.
[127] I go to New York.
[128] I would buy old records and sell it to different record collectors, you know.
[129] Make Questlove was one of my first guys.
[130] I sold to records to Kanye West when he first started producing.
[131] Collecting records was like a certain business.
[132] And on eBay, that was another hustle I had, like selling things that I buy flea market stuff and sell it on eBay.
[133] A lot of it was vinyl.
[134] one of the one of the things again that's so um obvious and apparent with you which is kind of a thread that kind of weaves between many of my guests specifically comedians for some reason because comedians they at some point you see this decision they've made to like leave the city leave like their job in finance and pursue this thing that has no apparent chance of making them any money at all but they just follow this like passionate obsession they spend a year going up and down the country working for nothing because they're obsessed with comedy for whatever reason.
[135] And a lot of young people, when they think about being a DJ or an entrepreneur, whatever, they think to themselves, okay, I want the admiration of standing there and all these people clapping for me and the money.
[136] Yeah.
[137] But you were so clearly led by this like unbelievably obsessive passion, which seems actually to be, if I was to say 95 % of my guests and followed one path, it would definitely be they didn't really care about the outcome.
[138] They cared about like the passion and the pursuit of the passion.
[139] Yeah.
[140] That's so clear with you, right?
[141] I mean, the beginning was definitely a hustle.
[142] I love music and it saved me from, You know, even in a high school, I moved from different high school to high school, and I didn't have a friend group.
[143] So I kind of was like leaning towards, I want to play music, but I couldn't, my parents didn't even buy me a guitar.
[144] Like I didn't even know how to play.
[145] I was like, how am I going to learn a guitar or no, how am I going to learn piano?
[146] But I like was like DJing.
[147] That's like the future of music.
[148] Like in my, it was like turntabalism was really big.
[149] I remember being like 16 being like, I'm going to buy record players.
[150] That's what I'm going to buy.
[151] That's like, that's what I'm going to do as a, as like a creative person.
[152] This is like a futuristic way to do things.
[153] So I, I leaned into.
[154] that started learning what a DJ was, but in the beginning, yeah, I had to do the groundwork to know what it is I'm going to play, like what it is that the music comes from, where was this music at, where do I buy the records?
[155] What do the crowds react to, et cetera, et cetera.
[156] So yeah, this formative years, I spent time grinding.
[157] But then eventually I was like, okay, how do I make money out of this?
[158] And yes, I want to play for a crowd.
[159] And yes, I want to adoration.
[160] Yes, I want to meet girls.
[161] Of course, that happens later.
[162] And that's another drive.
[163] But in the beginning, I just, I didn't really expect to have a job out of it.
[164] Do you think you would have been as successful as you are if you, if someone had taught you how to make music and you'd been really mentored by someone because sometimes that hurts innovation and creativity if there's a, if convention is too involved.
[165] Yeah.
[166] You know what I mean?
[167] I do what I mean because I see nowadays like kids can literally learn and copy any style of music in a day because they have a tutorial.
[168] It's so easy.
[169] It's really easy and I wish I had that.
[170] But then at the same time, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have had such a definitive like who I am.
[171] And If I ever, when people always ask me when I do radio shows, like, what do you advice you give to young DJs?
[172] And it's like always the same thing.
[173] Like, what makes yourself unique?
[174] Like, what, what really makes you different?
[175] Because I get through a fucking rock and I'm going to hit a DJer artist in the head in London.
[176] Like, I'm just somebody here is going to, it's like somebody to not talking about you.
[177] Yeah, I'm like, but it's so easy.
[178] Like, I literally get demos all the time.
[179] Like, what?
[180] I don't even pay attention.
[181] I used to actually like try to listen to demos.
[182] I'm like, this is all the same shit.
[183] Like people are doing the same thing over and whenever, like, you know, whether, whatever city you're in, there's like a. thing.
[184] And every once in a while you get like a special person that comes out of nowhere and you're like, wow, that's unique.
[185] Like, but really what, what is it?
[186] Like for me, you were talking about William Faulkner, I really tapped into like my southern heritage when I was younger.
[187] I was like what I loved like Miami bass music growing up in Florida.
[188] I love like, um, you know, the crunk scene, the bounce scene in New Orleans.
[189] I love, I grew up in Tennessee for a couple of years.
[190] So I love like Memphis rap.
[191] It was like my favorite thing.
[192] So when I went to the East Coast, none of that stuff was happening.
[193] Like nobody listened to that music.
[194] So I was like, let me bring this to East Coast.
[195] Let me start playing.
[196] I'm this, my parties, and it took off.
[197] Like, all this new sounds I brought, even though they were just, like, a one hour flight down south to hear Miami bass music, no one listened to it in Philly.
[198] So I was playing the stuff mixed with, like, 80s records, and that was, like, my brand.
[199] I was the guy that was, like, doing this mashup culture.
[200] And so nobody else had that party.
[201] There was, like, urban parties, they'd be playing hip -hop.
[202] There would be, you know, rock and roll parties playing, like, glam rock, and you could dance to it.
[203] There would be, like, high -end parties playing house music, but nobody was playing for, like, the art school kids and the hipsters at the time, because it was pre -hypster.
[204] It wasn't even a word yet.
[205] And I was like, that's my market.
[206] And I was like, no one's tapped into this.
[207] Let me go ahead and do this.
[208] You know, and every time I've, every little venture I've done as a musician has been like, why is the one in this market?
[209] Like, even when I did Major Laser, it was like reggae and dance hall we were doing, but nobody was really doing it in the clubs in America.
[210] There was like, if you go to like Philly, you want to see Vibes Cartel, you have to go to like this one ghetto club and like Lancaster and it's like only Jamaican's there.
[211] And I'm like, this is such crazy music.
[212] Like, why don't we do this on another level?
[213] Like, why don't we work with some of these artists and do bigger records?
[214] And so I was like, no one was doing dance hall?
[215] let's do this project.
[216] So everywhere I went, I was like, experimenting.
[217] Like, how do I do this and kind of make it my own?
[218] Or how do I, like, work this into my sets?
[219] And it's been like a journey, you know, this is 20 years now I'm doing this since I played at my first show at Fabric.
[220] And it feels like I've done so many, if you're a fan of mine, you follow me for 20 years, it's a really tough journey.
[221] Because it's like, I'm done, you're going to go to reggae music.
[222] You're going to go to country music.
[223] Now you're going to go to deep house.
[224] You're going to go this way and this way.
[225] But a few people actually go with me and follow my career.
[226] So, you know, I think that's what makes me a one of a kind person, I guess.
[227] So back to my point, when young people give me, ask me questions of like, what is it to what kind of advice I can give you?
[228] I'm like, find like a really unique thing and just lean into that.
[229] Lean into that so hard.
[230] Like figure out, even if it feels weird, just make it make sense, you know, make it work for you because otherwise you're just going to be one of one of a hundred like clones of different DJs, different rappers.
[231] If it feels weird, is that sometimes also an indication that there's a big opportunity?
[232] unity there because it's yet to break or it's yet to be discovered so like weirdness might be 100 % yeah more now than ever back then it was like I mean even DJs wasn't a thing when I started doing it like you wouldn't you DJ being a DJ wasn't a career it was like there's a few guys on the radio in Europe is different there was a DJ culture here but in America there wasn't like a job description called DJ like you wouldn't think there wasn't DJs on the radio weren't they weren't featuring on their music now it's pretty commonplace but but just being DJ was unique for me, but nowadays, since there's so much information all the time, so much media, there's so much artists fighting for your eyeballs and your ears on TikTok and Instagram, it's more than ever important to have something like, wow, I got to go look at that again because it's like just having a catchy hooks, not enough.
[233] Everybody has a cat, like, there's a thousand catchy hooks.
[234] You can just go and buy them literally at the market.
[235] It's like not special.
[236] One thing that really surprised me about you as well is that you're quite, um, I don't know whether it is humble about your talent, but I've seen in multiple interviews, when you're asked what the biggest misconception is about you, one of them you said is that that I'm talented.
[237] And I've heard you say a number of times that you're faking it or that you're still looking for some kind of like validation that you're a real, you know, and even at the start of this conversation, you said, I'm not technically the best.
[238] Yeah.
[239] Is that imposter syndrome?
[240] What is that?
[241] No, I think I've always been like more of a conceptual artist.
[242] Like, you know, I think of music and concepts.
[243] I think of music is like, oh, it's like a math problem, you know, like, how does this add to this?
[244] How do I make it work?
[245] You know, it's always been like a riddle.
[246] Every time I try to think of like what to combine things.
[247] Now it's a little easier because I'm like, I'm doing this kind of dance album.
[248] I know exactly what works because I'm DJing these records and I'm making, you know, collaborations with friends of mine artists.
[249] But when I was younger, I literally, my first album was called Florida.
[250] It was on, it was on Ninja Tune.
[251] And it's so weird.
[252] Like, I remember being just like so stoned and just fucked up and like making this record.
[253] And like, people still hit me. back like that record was a classic I'm like what are you talking about it was like crazy chaos it was like me just like in my room in Orlando like trying to figure out I wasn't even things weren't even in key like I'm sampling on this like two channel little like a Kai S20 sampler like the thing worked and um laying things out like if you know anything about DAW's like workstations like they're so complex like logic ableton back then I used something called cool at a pro and there wasn't even like a piano roll or anything I just had like windows like Photoshop when you just like I just layered the loops on top of each other and sequenced it in one long window because I couldn't, it was the worst way to work ever, but I learned this ass backwards way that kind of gave me a little flavor I guess, but I never was like a a musician, you know, like I never, I never mastered an instrument and I always thought DJing, I never was a good turntableist.
[254] Like I mean, if you put me in my room with like A -track or like DJ Craze, it's embarrassing.
[255] Those guys are like they're like magicians, you know?
[256] But I thought I'm the guy with like ideas and how do I apply those ideas and it became easy with as the technology advanced like I'm like oh these programs make it a lot easier for me I don't need to like play my MIDI keyboard I don't need be Scott Storch you know I can just like literally see the audio able to my favorites I see audio and I can work with raw audio it's it's my mind works that way so I think yeah I'm more of a conceptual person than I am like a like a digital autore even with even with production I mean I always say like Skrillex is like the guy that blew my mind.
[257] like he uses like a computer like a like a grand piano like he just does it's the craziest thing he does you know so i think there's people that are in my generation that are like those savants and i'm not that but i i'm i kind of mixed my talent for new new sounds and a talent for songwriting to make what like who i am but but to say that you're you're faking it and i mean maybe it was a joke but yeah to describe it as the biggest most because i mean i've been talking about DJ because I mean literally it's probably like the most it's people will ask me like how to you know how to do it or what to do it's such a you can learn it in 10 minutes like how to do the technical sides you know um was I faking that I mean no because in the end of the day what I think makes DJ special I explained earlier is that you have this you have to have history that's what makes it special I think it's why you have DJ careers in London especially these guys are like David Rodigan you know he's like a guy who's like in his like late 60s I'm hoping I don't age him maybe he's been doing this since he was interviewing Bob Marley.
[258] And he still rocks parties playing like selecting the perfect records because he has the skill set.
[259] Like he knows exactly he can read a crowd like Southwest London.
[260] He can go to Jamaica.
[261] He can go to like Italy and you can play the right songs at the right time.
[262] So there's something intrinsically beautiful about, you know, being a DJ.
[263] But yeah, some things it feels like I'm faking it.
[264] But I mean, even in the beginning, I faked it to like get in the studio.
[265] You know, that's what I did to like.
[266] to have my foot in the door, you know?
[267] When you asked about your creative process, I was looking through the huge wealth of traveling that you've done.
[268] Brazil, India, spent time in London, and various parts of the world.
[269] How formative is travel and going to these different cultures and understanding the way they do things to what the art you ultimately created?
[270] Because when I think about creativity from a marketing standpoint, I see it as like pulling together lots of little pieces to form something new.
[271] And you have, because of your obsession with the vials and the music's in the samples, you seem to have this, like, huge wealth of, like, artistic reference points to create new stuff from.
[272] I'm just obsessed with the conversation that's, like, happening all over the world.
[273] Like, you know, whether I go to Brazil or London's a good example where you have this, like, Pan -African, Jamaican, Caribbean, and then, like, European thing happening that's, like, drum -based, that's, like, funky.
[274] That's, like, now it's drill.
[275] Like, there's all these genres that if you look into it, why it exists, you can literally pinpoint the first creators and, like, where they come from, And like, why is it like, why do they make this kind of sound?
[276] So I was always like putting together the equation.
[277] Like, why are these things happening?
[278] And Brazil's been my favorite place to talk about because I was hearing this music.
[279] It was called funk karaoke for a long time.
[280] There's girls that were doing a party in Philly.
[281] And I remember they gave me a mixtape.
[282] And it was this like sound that was a mix of Miami bass in samba and like heavy metal because they're screaming songs.
[283] There's bass beats, but they're using like these timbrosino like drums.
[284] Yeah.
[285] Yeah, so I was like, what the fuck is this?
[286] I literally couldn't find any information on this music.
[287] So I went to, I went to Brazil, and I actually had a magazine fund this trip.
[288] It was an article for Fader magazine.
[289] And I went down there, I met the big DJs.
[290] And I just became immersed in that scene, you know, producing with some of those guys, learning you to produce with them.
[291] And moving that sound forward a little bit, I think my first real, real production was with MIA.
[292] It was called Bucky Dungun.
[293] And it was a funk record that we did.
[294] remember we actually went back to brazil and played it at this huge festival and it was like a massive hit in brazil and actually helped i think maybe validate some of the funk music in brazil because before that it was like a rio thing and it became like a all over the country there started making it and now if you go to brazil like funk music is the most commercial thing back then 20 years ago it was like a pretty underground genre and um but yeah everywhere i go i'm like i want to learn more once i learned like all the catalog all the old producers from you know jazz funk and soul and hip hop, then I'm like, the rest of the world, there's like endless possibilities of where music comes from and what's going on.
[295] So I started like venturing out there.
[296] In terms of your creative process as well, in two different interviews, I saw you talk about creating music that lasts a lifetime, like really timeless pieces of art. And the question that I had when I saw you say that was like, how do you do that?
[297] How can you even anticipate that a piece of music is going to be timeless?
[298] Is there something in the design of it or the inspiration or the story?
[299] There's a few times I've been in the studio and I'm like, A song I might be working on gives me goosebumps.
[300] You know, that happens.
[301] It was like when I did the, we did Justin Bieber's Where Are You Now?
[302] Like something like that.
[303] Like just was like, well, what the hell are we doing?
[304] And then like lean on for Major Laser.
[305] That was a record that I've probably spent one year on the production, you know?
[306] Because I did so many different vert.
[307] Like, no, this isn't right now.
[308] This isn't what's happening right now.
[309] This is I need to do something as a producer.
[310] My job is to predict the future.
[311] Like when I release this record after I make it, it's going to take like three months to actually get to the people.
[312] you know because it's like you needed to go labels claiming the record it can't just be like back in the day I would make an edit and DJ it and it was like hitting people right up but my little local neighborhood but a producer's job is literally like try to like at least mine my forte's always been like how can I do something that's going to be big in like six months or like a year like kind of like being futuristic sounding because that's what the greats have always done you know Prince or Timberlin or Farrell they've always made records that trend set because they were so futuristic so my goal has always been to follow them never to follow a trend And those two records were ones that we did And we're like, yes, this is going to work Even though it's fucking crazy Or even upon the floor, I remember listening to that And driving around in the car Was the song I did for Major Laser And I remember driving around LA And looking at the guy who produced me named Switch And we were just like, this is this gonna worry It was so crazy.
[313] Like we were just like, this is so wild And then and then yeah Like four years later, Beyonce sample That record and it became a massive hit.
[314] So there was like, my career's always had These little moments where we do things And then they, the ramifications happen later.
[315] You know, you feel the effects, you know, the seeds, like you said.
[316] But yeah, having classics is important.
[317] I think a couple of times you know when you're in it and you're like, okay, this is, this is worth the time.
[318] This is worth the effort because learning songwriting with some of the great guys like, you know, Dr. Luke saw my publishing in the beginning.
[319] I haven't been in the studio with him and circuit.
[320] And a lot of his writers, I was like, man, you've spent three days on like a second verse.
[321] Like this is what you do now.
[322] That's what pop music is.
[323] Like you literally, like, if you think a record is the big record, you just, it's so.
[324] painstakingly like the effort is so concise like how to make this the best record ever like everything is like a perfect addition like an architect like every little corner of the house has got to be perfect right so i learned that process which i don't do very often but when a record's big i followed through and then otherwise just do a shit ton of records and one of them's going to be good too that's another process you can do which also i can do that too like just put you know randomly i put records out and record like on my mind which is another house records on my album that was a huge TikTok record, which we would never guess.
[325] Like, you can't even guess when those records happen.
[326] Yeah, so because you can't guess when one's going to be a winner and maybe one's not going to catch on, as a creative, do you kind of try and not harm your piece by trying to predict too much what the outcome's going to be?
[327] Do you just focus on the process itself?
[328] And like, how much can you predict if something's going to be a...
[329] I mean, there's a lot of, like, in this, like, we're talking about being in the studio.
[330] So, like I said, there's a process, like, to making a great record.
[331] but there's also like diplomacy when you're in this when you're a producer like you have to know the artist like you know ed sharon do you have an extra record we can try to work on and then he gives you songwriting and that's how like a record like cold water happened was another uh beber's song i did and then you're like okay how do can we ask beavers manager can you maybe do this record we'll do a trade for a production then okay then that deals in the place then okay who can play the guitar on this oh you find that person so sometimes it's literally like being like a an ambassador like talking all these people and try to put a record together too like that's another process that I had to learn and that's something else like when a record's already done like you take a song and you dress up the production you still have to find the like all the keys to make that record work um so it's like every record is a different journey you know and now with dance music I'm literally just in the studio hearing records and trying to figure out what sound I want to make for a live effect and then I apply that in the studio but um I've literally probably every kind of songwriting you can do I've I've done it you know from like sitting with acoustic guitar with Madonna to, you know, recording sound, field recordings in a favela or, you know, paying for studio session for a reggae artist with like my last little bit of money in Philly.
[332] Like it's at, you know, the root studio and like barely getting a hook and then it was not even good enough than making something out of that later.
[333] You know, like it's always like it could be collections of vocals or sample packs or everything I've done.
[334] You know, I've tried it, you know.
[335] What's the cost of all of this in terms of on your, maybe cost is a bit of a presumption but what's the sacrifice or the cost in terms of like personal life balance because you're obsessed with you know I think I was probably running at like 200 miles an hour until COVID happened I don't think I would ever take a break and that was probably the best thing that happened like when I got when COVID when the lockdown happened and I couldn't do shows like shit let me actually buy a house and let me actually like you know like figure out what's my next steps in life I kind of needed that break because I was just going to do just everything was break next speed you know It was like, the Grammage this weekend.
[336] Oh, you have a session with this person this weekend.
[337] Oh, we got to get back on this.
[338] I got to go to Jamaica and do this.
[339] It's like everything was happening.
[340] I never said no to anybody.
[341] I was like, this is crazy.
[342] I was like, you know, a musician has the same life as an athlete.
[343] You have like a peak, you know.
[344] If you're a linebacker in NFL football, your career is like maybe three or four years because you're getting beat up.
[345] A quarterback can play, you know, until he's 44.
[346] A producer or artists, like they're just hot for as long as they're hot.
[347] And then they have to find, they have to come down some of them can just continue to always go there like you know you have like people that are just always going to be in your mind like madonna or you know um some of the big pops i was like taylor swift every record it's going to perform but a lot of times you like on borrow time you don't know when you're when your when your window is going to close so for me i was like i got to keep going and i never i feel like i never had hit my my peak so i was like let's keep pushing it forward and eventually i was like you know what this isn't that important like let me like actually enjoy my life i have three kids now I want to like do things, I want to, you know, explore more but not think about the work.
[348] I want to do things that maybe benefit my mind.
[349] And I think that's kind of what the last two years of downtime is giving me, even though I did produce a lot of records in between.
[350] It was on my own terms, you know, I wasn't like chasing all the live events.
[351] And I wasn't chasing all the different successes I could have had.
[352] COVID was very much the same experience for me. It's actually why I resigned from my company because I actually got to look at my life.
[353] It was like when I stopped flying eight times a month, I got to look at my life.
[354] And I also got to feel what it was like to slow down and talk to my friends and my family a little bit.
[355] When you think about your pre -COVID life, now you've got the benefit of hindsight and you've had time to pause.
[356] Were you happy in that phase of your life?
[357] I was because it's weird.
[358] I mean, I was losing touch with other people.
[359] I felt that.
[360] so I was like very insular but my life I run the best like when it's chaos when I'm doing 300 shows a year and I'm like getting up and doing the emails and going to the gym and then I'm like this is like I just I just work under pressure I don't know what it is it's like my my best forte is to have just chaotic stuff happening all the time and I'm like somehow I can get through it so I was into that and I was like this is a very unhealthy way to live um so now it feels like I'm back on a promo tour and it feels like I'm back on this like fast track and I'm like I kind of want COVID a little bit but but then you know it's all part of the process because if you put a record out it's important for people to hear it you know like you only have one chance for records to be released and it's like you should give that if you have a great song you should give it every opportunity it has to reach people because that's it's one shot you know but don't waste your time on every song like you have a good song I got the song Miguel that we're promoting I'm like this song's worth the work you know other songs maybe like yeah I'll put them out and maybe something will happen.
[361] You don't never know.
[362] Maybe it's in three months there'll be like a midget dancing to it on TikTok or something and like it'd be it's a crazy experience or something and it goes viral.
[363] You never know what's going to happen.
[364] It's like just rolling the dice every time.
[365] But every once in a while there are some steps you can take to ensure a record has its best chance that's surviving, you know?
[366] And that's like what you're doing now, right?
[367] Yeah.
[368] The promo putting effort behind it.
[369] So then look so COVID happens.
[370] Your world kind of grinds to how everybody's does and you probably find yourself in a house somewhere.
[371] alone.
[372] Yeah.
[373] How's that then in terms of mental health and dealing with the sudden stop?
[374] I think, I mean, the thing that sucked the worst about COVID is I had these children and like, it was a time I was like, man, I could do whatever I want, but there was nothing to do.
[375] Like, you couldn't go to, in LA, we closed the parks for so long.
[376] We closed, like, there was no school, like, you know, there's no birthday parties.
[377] You can't go see other kids.
[378] Like, it was just kind like, it's almost like a waste opportunity I had like a whole year to be with my kids.
[379] I was like, what do we even find time to do?
[380] I was like, I buy a house.
[381] basketball courts in the house just play basketball like it was like literally i made an environment for them to enjoy life but um i think honestly i've been doing this for so long and i've made a really great team around me like i have these great women that like are like that always work with me and like work for me and i think it just feels like there's a big family like now you know like people like it's like on my management side or just like my personal side it's like i have people that are always looking in my best interests and i think i got lucky i was i've been doing that since day one like my first manager worked for me for free for the first year because he just like believed in what i did i was like i don't need a manager i was making so much money before i pay taxes like just selling mixtapes in djing like i was like i bought a i bought a property in philadelphia like in my first year of like learning how to hustle the system of being a dj and then i was like damn but there's he was like there's there's more to be done though like he's like just more you can do than just living in philly and like buying being the biggest dj here and i think he gave me that that that motivation to like be bigger.
[382] And from him, you know, another management group happened.
[383] And then I've had a lucky journey.
[384] I've been the same with the same team for, you know, 20 years.
[385] A lot of people don't get that.
[386] But I also think I was very visionary in what I want to do.
[387] So if you're like a young person, like you get sucked up by management or whatever, they might have a vision for you or they might not, or they might not have the right vision for you or they might not give you the room to be yourself, then you're going to switch like 40 managers and you might not ever find, you know, the success you need.
[388] So it's important to find people, you know, that really believe in you, but also let you be yourself because you've got to find that because you're going to be, that's all you got at the end of day.
[389] You can lose a million managers and a million people, but you can always start over and just be you.
[390] Reminded me of the Avichi documentary that I saw, which was a real pivotal moment in my life because, yeah, so I spent four weeks at home in 2019 and I was very much being dragged around.
[391] We had 1 ,000 employees, so I was being dragged around the place.
[392] And that documentary taught me the importance of saying no to stuff.
[393] 100%.
[394] Like Avichu, I feel like I never, his, he was probably like one of my biggest influences, even those younger than me. I remember hanging out a couple times.
[395] I was just like, man, this guy, this guy's a genius, but like he doesn't feel like he's in his own skin, you know, because I don't think he ever had that chance to be who he, be what he wanted to be.
[396] He was like, he was almost like a, became like a machine because his success happens so quick.
[397] Um, but that happens a lot.
[398] That's like the one story in the DJ world, but in the pop world happens like way too much, I think.
[399] Are you good at saying there's stuff?
[400] No, I say yes to everything.
[401] But I'm also like, I have really thick skin.
[402] I feel like my personality is enormous.
[403] I can also like I can I can find my way through things.
[404] I always say yes.
[405] Then I'll say no for the next time if it sucks.
[406] But I've done everything.
[407] You know, and I'm like, uh, you know, this isn't the right thing.
[408] I move on.
[409] Or even if it's a studio session, I might go get breakfast and I might never come back.
[410] You know, whatever it is.
[411] I'll give everything a chance, you know, but I know, I know now something's, you know, my management knows me now to where they, some things don't even get to me. The questions don't even come because they know it's like a no or they know I'll say yes and it'll be a bad it'll be a bad yes thick skin you started talking a lot about mental health over the last couple of years your partnership with calm as well I was reading about um mental health in the DJing world but mental health amongst men anyway what's your journey been with your own mental health I think you know just being put as like uh you know whatever celebrity or whatever it is being attention attention always on you is you're going to have so many critics and you're going to have so many you know the love is cool but nobody really cares about like all the adoration you get you care about the people that don't like you and that you get caught up in that even if it's only like 5 % but they really want to be vocal about they don't like you or they don't love you uh that bothers you no matter who are who you are you know eventually i had to just like wow these people suck like just whatever you're gonna it's you're never going to get away from those the people that like want to always be critics you know they just want to get a rise out of you i think eventually you just got to say fuck it the people that around me they're opinions what matters like the people that I trust and you can't like kind of sit in the opinion of people that don't either don't know you or maybe build an opinion about you from you know whatever it is because when it comes to social media it's like a game you know it's not like you it's it's I was talking about Carmen Greger earlier today I'm like he's like the biggest heel most paid athlete last year even though he didn't fight because he's like people love to hate him you know so he built a brand out of just being that person but you got to take it with you got to take the good and the bad with it.
[412] I mean, if you want to be in this business, which is like, I guess show business, like you said, the comedians, the DJs, I'm like kind of like a popular DJ.
[413] I'm more like a, like a people might go to my shows and I even know my music because they know my brand.
[414] And that kind of sucks because they don't know, they don't know what they're going to get.
[415] But because I'm on that pedestal, you're just going to get eyes on you for everything.
[416] So I feel like you just have to, if you want, if you want to be at this level, you got to like just take it.
[417] And if I didn't want it, I would just back up, you know?
[418] But I can take it so I feel like it's something that I had to learn to grow into myself and just be like, okay, be comfortable because what really matters is my team.
[419] You know, what my family thinks about me, what my team thinks about me. And I think that's those people will give you that motivation to go every day.
[420] Have you made a conscious effort to like shorten that circle by like logging off?
[421] I read someone else has your Twitter password now and you don't really have it.
[422] Have you made a conscious effort?
[423] Yeah, I've been on Twitter in like five years.
[424] But I think, yeah, it kind of sucks.
[425] I hit or miss because, I mean, even TikTok I was like slow to do that but then like I said if you want your if you want your brand to exist it's got to be there like because that's like you know there's more eyeballs on TikTok than they're on YouTube nowadays so you really you have to be part of that conversation with the audience it took me a while like I had to find people that actually can help me run that because I couldn't do it myself and I couldn't be you know in every day long like videotaping and doing dances or whatever so how to find different ways to make those things work for myself it wasn't easy in the beginning but yeah I don't stay on I don't stay on social too much but then of course during this album cycle I'm on there and I'm like having to always participate but you know luckily I think I've got great fans I've got great people get great response to my album it wasn't that difficult but every once in a while you have to get you take your mind off it because you can get caught up you know what made you start talking about mental health and being a bit of an advocate for that you said that a lot of people should speak about it a lot more where did that inspiration come up?
[426] Probably after the Abechi situation.
[427] And then, you know, I work with a lot of rappers.
[428] I think I had a hip -hop album that came out like two years ago, three years ago, maybe four years ago.
[429] It was called California.
[430] And I had a little Zan and had a little peep on it.
[431] And I had, um, Trippy Red and I had, I was working with XX Accentation.
[432] I just remember I did this whole circuit working all these young rappers.
[433] And they were like really young.
[434] They were like 19, 20.
[435] And the studio sessions were so weird and crazy.
[436] And then these rappers all started to die.
[437] Like they all started like, you know, little peep, overdose.
[438] on opiates and you know x was was shot but he also had such a crazy vision on life and experiences and his he was like went through so much and i saw i saw what was happening these young guys because they were getting so popular so quick and i was really i just i just like damn these guys all need like a big brother so i think just with those guys a lot of them i was helping them out making decisions but just seeing how crazy it is to be a 20 year old right now is much more difficult than when I was there.
[439] You know, when I was there, you literally had your group of friends, and that's all you knew, people on your street.
[440] Now everybody knows who you are or can knew you who you are or have some kind of opinion about you.
[441] And I think you have to find ways to, like I said earlier, block that out and just concentrate on like being the best you, which just sounds like a cliche, but you really have to compete with just yourself every day, not everybody else.
[442] One of the things that I saw in that Avichi doc as well was he was suffering with pretty severe anxiety.
[443] I remember the scenes of him being in that, hotel room and his manager saying we've got to go and him saying i'm not going yeah have you ever felt that anxiety have you ever felt that that kind of crippling no i think you know i've i've deal like people like close to my life have anxiety and they have a tax lot and i have to talk them down sometimes um so i know how how it feels and that's just like in the day -to -day life me i feel like i still like the stage i've never been and i've also like i said i've also made a a concerted effort to make the team like make me comfortable, you know?
[444] That of each other, I'm not going to talk about, like, the people on the team, but, like, they just, like, they just didn't care.
[445] Like, no one cared about him or what he was feeling.
[446] I remember being at shows, and I was like, he played before me in Vegas, and he would be just missing.
[447] He would play, like, two hours later, and he would have to get fucked up to get on stage because he just couldn't do it.
[448] He couldn't be up there.
[449] It couldn't be on a pedestal.
[450] And I feel, I can feel that way sometimes, like, on this tour, you know, just jet, like, alone.
[451] You're like, you're, like, nodding out at dinner, and you're like, I got to go be excited for this crowd.
[452] and I'm really good at like making that work for myself now because these people owe you know I owe them this experience but yes I take a lot more time for myself now like I'm like I don't need to do these anymore I'm telling them like this is this is over for me this is like something I would do three years ago it's important to to take that that away that out of the equation I'll feel a lot better but yeah you got to make those personal choices and you got like I said people that are that are hungry like me and you that just that when they get on the train they're just like going full throttle you do need something to say like okay it's it's okay to like not go 100 miles an hour all the time you can like go like at a strolling pace or something and i guess for you from what i read a lot of that was your kids as well right yeah when you when your first child was born you talked about that being a really pivotal moment it taught you that time the value of time and i think my first kid when i had my first son lock it i just i was like i went and i actually went faster because i was like i did i was like also as a father your kids i was like i found a connection with my sons when i was they were like five and four years old when they were like because really the mother's like everything they're not leaving her sight they're not around they don't really give a shit about like their father's i felt like that in the beginning of my son but so i was like i got a kid now my life's about to get really complicated and i think all my my best work happened around them because just that time ended i was like okay i have like saturday sunday or have like wednesday off i'm gonna go the studio for 16 hours every other day because i don't want to do anything else this is the time i have like those five years i did all of my biggest records and my next son was born and my time got even crazier and then um you just kind of like like i said you got to manage time better each time like you got to got to figure out how to make it work i'm still figuring it out you know now my boys are entering like the teenage years like they're 11 7 so they're asking me questions now that they never would before like i'm like having to give them like being a boy and man advice which i was like this is cool they're having conversations that i can relate to them as much as they can relate to me before it was like with just baby shark and legos and stuff when you um talking about your three boys when you you did this really sweet post um giving a bit of a shout out to their mothers and in that sentence you said i'm still a work in progress and i was really intrigued by that why did you say i'm still a work in progress as it relates to a post about that the mothers and your boys i think because you know my my boys i want them to to i want them like i want instilled in the same discipline that my father has given me, you know, which I don't know how to do that.
[453] Like, I don't think my father knew either.
[454] Like he had, I remember going to my father's rooms and he had like books about like being the best dad.
[455] You know, like I remember like I was like, I think that about till I was later.
[456] I'm like, damn, maybe I should check that book out.
[457] You know, like I'm like, I was, it seems silly when I was younger.
[458] But I think being the person I am, I'm also like this like, like I said, my personality is so big that I feel like I'm kind of alpha even for my children.
[459] Like I'm like, when I, when I'm off break, I'm like, let's go snowboarding.
[460] Let's go to the basketball court and they're just like dad relax like we want to watch TV or something you know I'm like and I'm like I'm like I don't they want to do all this stuff with me like I don't know I'm like they think I'm like the crazy person that comes over and like takes them away to do crazy stuff all the time and it's like it's a big distraction in their life a lot of time so I've got to figure out of like be with them you know more than just be their insane sports dad I got to like be their their their friend too so that's like what I'm talking about things like that when you you know just even like sitting with my son, my seven -year -old and like watching cartoons or watching him play Minecraft on his iPad is so much more important than him.
[461] If I do that for an hour, then like take him on like a trip to Nepal or something, which I've done.
[462] You know, like, it's like they're like, they remember that, but they actually remember this time and on the couch with me a lot more, I feel like.
[463] The other thing that we were talking about just then is this, um, I just came to mind is when I had Olympians on this podcast, they talked to me about this thing called gold medal depression.
[464] And Israel Adasania came here, the UFC champion two weeks ago.
[465] And he said that the worst day of his life was the day after he won the belt yeah he said he went straight into therapy and i i saw a similar tone and a similar narrative and when you spoke about in fact some of the worst days are the day after the high yeah and then you you actually said that you have to kind of suppress the high 100 % to avoid the low yeah always because i feel like it gets addicting because i mean like israel he only he does like what like two big fights a year I'm like doing like which is not knocking him because he'll be the fucking amazing but um I have to do like 250 like shows you know like sometimes and every night might be bigger some nights might be lame you got to just take it in stride every once I'm like damn that was awesome and I'm like appreciate the like you have to have gratitude for that but I mean if it's going to be your lifestyle every night people are always like you don't drink or you're DJ I'm like I'm DJing like 200 nights a year I can't be drunk I'll be dead like it's like I don't know it's like not even why you even ask that question it's like this is still a job for me. I found ways to like have energy and like have this feeling and like it's like it's actually I think it's mental work to do that but you always if you're just going to be like in these peaks and values all time that's not healthy and I see a lot of people that are other creators and it's crazy but like the best creators are really like have bipolar tendencies I've noticed that like some of my my favorite people that collaborate with I've noticed they have and some of them are addressing it and it's like it leads to their six their failures in some parts like I always see like I think my my the most creative people like have are always dealing with that you know either whether it was bowie or uh other DJs like I see that a lot in my peers and I think it's important to because they love that high too they're chasing that hive like that experience you know it's just like a drug like having like fans you know scream being at a festival but eventually you just kind of like drown out the noise and just figure out just it's making more of a job because you can't just live like every night's like the biggest party of your life you because then it will be there's going to be a big downer and you've changed yourself you said you've changed yourself to be like present and energetic without letting the adrenaline fill your body and then staying up till 7 am also yeah it's a hard it's hard to sleep you know like when you do a show like I'm leaving Vegas I'm doing like it's a great party we like do one to 3 am and I'm like have a little vibe after the show and then it's like damn I got to go to vex I got to be up at night and take my kids I'm like how do you like wind down because that's really hard to do too I had the tiniest dose of this we took this podcast we made it a musical and we did three nights at the pladium and then so i started going to sleep at seven a m so i'd come off stage at the play maybe midnight come back here and i'd sit here at the table just like it's impossible that's what i'm not even touching this coffee yeah yeah like i'm like you know you don't want the yeah so you have to literally i think you have to take in strides you know because there's always going to be i think i think deep down inside of me if i like lose all of the if i label drop me i couldn't make music anymore i'm not djing i don't really you know like I flop so hard.
[466] I feel like I can start over again.
[467] That's like something I feeling aside me. Okay, maybe I would be like, I love furniture.
[468] Maybe I'll be a carpenter.
[469] Whatever it is.
[470] That's just the thing I'm saying.
[471] I just feel like, I feel like, I feel like, or pizza maker, whatever it is, I always feel like if you have that feeling inside you that you can lose everything and be okay with it, that's maybe that's a key success.
[472] Then you know it's, all this is just like a facade.
[473] Like it's really like I'll be comfortable as long as I get to do something I love again.
[474] It doesn't have to be huge.
[475] I don't be rich.
[476] But I feel like any moment, if I got taken away, I have my family, I have my kids, and I'll gladly go and do something with them and live a humble life.
[477] I always feel like I'm, that's, I'm ready for that, you know?
[478] And your new album, this is, what, 20 years into your career now?
[479] And it's your second full -length album since, like, Florida?
[480] Yeah, that's happened because once I started going to the studio in L .A., I was like, you don't make solo albums like Florida.
[481] You make albums for other people.
[482] You know, I'm just a DJ.
[483] I'm like a brand this brand is limited to some level but if I work on Britney Spears album I can make this much money or I can make a hit that streams like this or if I do this album and it wasn't until I think we did major laser I was like okay well at least I can own this project also make the same size records and take all of it you know that became kind of like just the business side of it I was like this is a lot better you know now and this I think if I only diplos at the point we're like okay I have no other brands to put it in this is going to be my records now kind of like that's kind of how this album happen because that's still it's a dance album but I worked on it as a songwriter you know because you hear the songs they got verse chorus verse they're not straight techno records they're not straight acid records are just like they're kind of built like pop records 20 years in um releasing this album what are you sick of in the process in the industry what are you just like I hate this shit uh I think going through heat throws like the liquids come on like what is up with that if I could not travel ever again I mean I literally had to spend like 30 minutes there yesterday because like I was like they were looking for this one tiny eye cream that was in the bottom of a freaking I was like bro you can have all this stuff just take it take it away from you but the travel is the worst you know I wish I could teleport to each show but it's yeah that's probably the worst thing if I could just not if I could just sit home I also got a really nice house now in Malibu so I'm like don't want to go on tour anymore I kind of want to sit there I love the, when I was on Twitch.
[484] I was DJing this thing.
[485] I just didn't make any money.
[486] I was like, but it's cool.
[487] I've been to Europe in three years.
[488] So it's, you know, it's actually feels brand new to me. And this, in this line of work, the whole audience changes like every three years too.
[489] Like kids that were ravers and go to clubs, when they're 24, when they're 27, they got full -time jobs and their little cousins have been.
[490] I've done like, it's 20, I've done like seven of those generations, I feel like, and they're still coming out and seeing me play.
[491] So I've been really lucky.
[492] based on the life you've lived when your three boys get to you know 16 18 years old and they come to you and say that I need advice on like what I should pursue how do I become yeah what is the general advice is it just man I will take them on the road with me I guess that's the only thing I can do that's the best that's the best advice I can give them like this is what I do every day just so you know you think I'm like doing some crazy shit I actually have to wake up go to the gym and have to go we're doing some press in front of that to get ready for the show we're going to do dinner with the promoter as a nice favor and we're going to go to the concert oh there's appearance afterwards this is what i do and i go back in the morning i'm going the studio first thing in the morning just to show them what it takes like and this is like you know 10 years in just let them know it's what the process is like that's the best i can do i can actually show them that you know a lot of kids wouldn't have that wouldn't have their parents to give them something like that um but yeah that's what i train with george foreman junior he's a boxing trainer and his father he said that he didn't really understand anything about life until his father took him on the road to see him fight and took him to like the gym sessions and how much work he did and that was in middle of like george's like uh the griddle he was doing the former grill era and um he said it just like something clicked inside of him they changed them inside why the gym you've mentioned that twice is that because oh because i think i just i actually every day have to go to gym it's like the one thing that i have to do to like make me feel like normal because i the jet lag for one but then i also traveling and then i think i need like an hour If it's yoga, if it's something, I just need like to sweat for an hour every day to feel normal.
[493] I don't know what it is, but it's been like that for like the last 10 years.
[494] It's not very healthy lifestyle.
[495] I mean, I don't drink very often, but this COVID got me into drinking again because it was a little bit boring to go to eat dinner every night.
[496] So I think I'm trying to reset that a little bit.
[497] When someone's obsessive and they achieve success and they're flying 300, well, they have 300 shows a year.
[498] I can't, it's an inconceivable number in my mind.
[499] their relationships in terms of their romantic relationships like how on earth does one maintain good romantic relationships when they're that obsessed?
[500] I've had, I mean, it's, it's been hard.
[501] I had a girlfriend during the COVID times and she was like great energy.
[502] She understood my life.
[503] Really, you got to understand your lifestyle because it's so fast pace.
[504] Also, you're going to be, it's about you.
[505] It's like you're the artist, right?
[506] It's like, when I was dating people that were the music industry in the beginning I didn't understand at all like that they're two different people one's the person I know and then one's the artist you know because that's a whole facade like going the same on stage you go see them do this it's not the person that you see in the bedroom at the end of the night or whatever it's different I couldn't figure out I couldn't figure that out as a young person like and that's why I don't think it's probably not the healthy to date someone else that's also in the music business because it's like really it's like smoke and years a lot between what they're doing, what they, what their, what their, what their shows are like and who they are as a person and who they are as, as like an artist is different.
[507] Do you value that?
[508] Do you value romantic connection?
[509] Is it a big priority?
[510] Yeah, I do.
[511] I have, I think, you know, I have two mothers of my children and, like, finding the balance with them has been, like, the hardest thing, but it's, like, so great now.
[512] It's, like, so peaceful.
[513] Like, they, everybody's like, everybody loves each other and, like, my kids are all happy and the mothers are happy.
[514] And, um, everybody's healthy that was been and then you know if I have a new girlfriend I brought her in the mix and they liked her too it was like so I've like found this kind of harmony in it you know but um there's always turbulence you know having a we're having a fight now like what school my son goes to to high school so I have to like navigate that problem there's like new problems all the time you know never you're never going to figure everything out are you difficult to be in a relationship with uh I think no because I'm literally like I'm down just whatever I'm along for the ride I'm like, whatever.
[515] But then, of course, I have these kind of Scorpio tendencies that have, like, zero in emotions.
[516] So, like, it's hard to really.
[517] Zero, zero emotions.
[518] Yeah, there's, like, nothing.
[519] You're going to get nothing from me most time.
[520] Really?
[521] Yeah.
[522] So a lot of girls, they, but if you spend enough time with me, you know, the real me, but I think it's, it takes a while.
[523] You're going to get nothing from me most of the time in terms of emotions.
[524] Yeah, I'm really emotionless.
[525] I feel like, I don't, I don't show a lot of emotion, you know?
[526] I'm kind of like, I think I guess what I got for my dad.
[527] I'm just like, like, an army guy, you know?
[528] I'm like out here just like saving fate, like poker face.
[529] I'm always like, it's hard to get through my exterior.
[530] Is that a good thing?
[531] Do you think for like in terms of mental health?
[532] It's just, yeah, I mean, I found people that could deal with it, you know?
[533] Probably not a good thing, no. But it's been like that.
[534] I think that's also the thing you have to put on to be, like I said, be in this world too.
[535] Like to like, it's definitely something to protect me. But at the same time, you know, if you get the right person, you give her everything.
[536] I sat here with Patrice Evra.
[537] He's the, you're a football fan, you're an Arsenal fan, right?
[538] So Patrice Evra was the famous Manchester United Leftback.
[539] And he said something similar to me. He said he grew up on the streets of France, drug dealing.
[540] He watched his brothers in his house to die from drug overdoses in the bathroom.
[541] And then his head teacher at the time, like sexually molested him.
[542] So he put up this, and to survive on the streets of France at the time, he put up this big kind of external outer wall, tough skin, as you might have called it.
[543] and that served him to becoming an elite athlete.
[544] It served him to a point.
[545] And then one day his girl turned to him on the sofa and said, are you happy?
[546] And he was like, fight back up, yeah, I'm happy.
[547] Yeah, yeah.
[548] But then she kept persisting, right?
[549] Like angrily, right, that defense.
[550] And then she kept persisting.
[551] And he just broke down.
[552] And he'd never told anybody what had happened to him with his headmaster.
[553] And he told her at like 35 years old.
[554] And he said to me while he was sat here, that journey of like opening up and not being the tough guy anymore actually changed his life.
[555] it changed his relationship with his kids.
[556] It meant that he finally talked about how he felt for the first time, even that it made him feel vulnerable.
[557] And that's why I asked the question, is it, is it a good thing, like, to be...
[558] You know, I'm, I think I'm very selfish because at the end of the day, I'm never lonely on the road.
[559] And I think it's because I've never felt in love with a girl.
[560] Like, I never felt like, ah, this is love.
[561] Because if it was love, it's love.
[562] Like, the love is, like, love.
[563] Like, you...
[564] I mean, I have my heartbroken.
[565] Maybe I was in love a little bit, but, like, I never felt like life -changing love until my son was born.
[566] And I was like that the love I have with my first born son out and then my second, my third, it's like the connection though.
[567] I'm like, damn, no matter what, this kid stuck with me. Like, this is like my life partner for real.
[568] Like, this is like somebody that I have to make this person a better human.
[569] Like that was something that when that happened, it became like my go -to.
[570] Like I'm always going to, this is the person that I care the most about all three of these boys.
[571] It really, that was the person I understood love was when I had children, you know?
[572] Maybe that sounds weird to you, but it just feels like that's, undeniable.
[573] Like, no matter what they do, I'm going to love them.
[574] Like, you know.
[575] Do you believe in love romantically?
[576] Maybe, maybe I don't have it.
[577] I mean, I'm still like playing the game.
[578] Like, I'm still, you know, like, you know, trying to find a great woman to settle down with.
[579] Our previous guests always write a question for the next guest.
[580] And then, funnily enough, I never tell the guest who the previous person was.
[581] He wrote a question for you, didn't know who was writing it for.
[582] He wrote, um, why do you exist?
[583] Maybe it is to bring joy and inspiration to people and maybe have you know in some in maybe new music and exploration into culture I hope and then in like a more spiritual way it is to just add something to the world that wasn't there before because everything you create in the fabric of time and space is something that's brand new and that's what we that's only what we add so those are three answers amen Thank you so much and thank you for coming here.
[584] Your new album, Diplo, which me and my girlfriend sat on this table, a couple of days ago listening to, it's remarkable that someone 20 years into their career can create a project that feels so fresh and relevant and exciting at the same time.
[585] I honestly, I played the record for my girlfriend.
[586] We were going through the records.
[587] No, no, we were eating at dinner here.
[588] And I was like, oh, I was like, Diplo's coming in.
[589] And so I started playing the new records in the album.
[590] And she's from France and Portugal.
[591] She lives in Indonesia.
[592] She goes, I know that one.
[593] She goes, I know that one.
[594] Because a lot of the same.
[595] Yeah, well, yeah.
[596] And I literally had to check the year in which the album had dropped because the songs felt so familiar.
[597] Yeah.
[598] And that really took me off guard.
[599] But I'll be honest, we added a couple tracks that were already out.
[600] Yeah, I know.
[601] Yeah, because from the view numbers.
[602] I think the streams go up first week a little bit.
[603] But they're part of the project.
[604] I mean, I got really lucky here in the UK.
[605] I had the song of Paul Wolford called looking for me that was like so big here.
[606] It was like probably my biggest solo record I've ever had.
[607] had in anywhere was that was like number one Ireland I think it was number two here but um I feel like the UK really if anything the dance culture they understand it like they get it it's been a while you guys have like real dance projects like you know chemical brothers chase the status bicep disclosure you have like the idea of like dance projects which we don't have in America we just have like a bunch of like scummy DJs going out every night and playing in Las Vegas but we're trying to build it I think it's important but here you guys have this culture it's amazing well thank you for blessing us with another project and it's legendary that it's so resonant 20 years into your career.
[608] Yeah.
[609] So it's really, really inspiring.
[610] Thank you for being here.
[611] Yes, sir.
[612] Thank you.
[613] Huge pleasure.
[614] Thank you.