19 - Nineteen Kills And Counting

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Here we are.

[17] This is recording now.

[18] Mm -hmm.

[19] Am I going to really annoy you if I keep telling you not to hold that part of this?

[20] Oh, no, I need it.

[21] Is I going to annoy you, though?

[22] I feel like at some point you're going to be like, yeah, I'm going to murder you.

[23] Let's plan out our first fight now.

[24] I'll start crying immediately.

[25] I feel like any time we've even come within 30 miles of the slightest fight, we have a total talk down.

[26] Yeah, you're going to be like, I want to talk to you about something.

[27] Yeah.

[28] I like that.

[29] That I say that?

[30] No, we both, yeah.

[31] Yeah, I like that.

[32] I think it's because we started our friendship at a place of vulnerability.

[33] Yes.

[34] By talking about literally being vulnerable.

[35] That's right.

[36] And also, when I think about being in a fight with you, it makes me immediately want to start crying.

[37] I'm just like, I can't have it.

[38] I just can't.

[39] I'll do anything to make sure it doesn't happen.

[40] That's, I'm going to do so much shit now.

[41] Now that I know I have fucking carte blanche.

[42] Free reign.

[43] Fuck with you.

[44] Well, I will.

[45] I'm not saying I won't very firmly confront you.

[46] Right.

[47] It's not a fight if you're just screaming at me. If I scream you're down into a corner.

[48] Yeah, that's not technically a fight.

[49] If it's one punch and I'm out, that's not a fight.

[50] Some of my favorite fights, because I do the Irish thing where I won't say anything.

[51] Right.

[52] And then all the sudden, I'm out.

[53] I'll just be Irish goodbye to you.

[54] I think I know that.

[55] And that's why I'm like, that's what I'm scared of.

[56] Right.

[57] Which, but that's why I'm saying I'll be very, I'll be, I'll total conversations at the jump, at the slightest thing.

[58] That's why I'll always be like, here's how I feel, here's my thing, and here's my, I need you to know my thing.

[59] We're adults and we know our things by now.

[60] Yeah.

[61] You got to say your thing.

[62] It's, you know what?

[63] It's only fair that you give the other person a chance.

[64] You say, here's the thing and the other, give the other person a chance to at least go.

[65] Yeah.

[66] And you'll know by the response whether or not.

[67] There's someone that you can have a lifelong relationship with, or at least for the next few weeks.

[68] Or at least, until our podcast gets out of the top 10.

[69] Are we out already?

[70] We must be.

[71] We're not.

[72] I checked today.

[73] Excuse me. That was loud.

[74] That was the best reaction.

[75] No, it's so good.

[76] You guys were in the top 10 iTunes comedy podcast.

[77] We were number one a week ago.

[78] I'm disappointed in you guys.

[79] No, I'm not.

[80] I love you.

[81] Don't say that.

[82] So maybe the reason we're not number one anymore is because we haven't, nobody knows what podcasts is.

[83] Hey, this is my favorite murder.

[84] Oh, yeah, this is my favorite murder starring Georgia Hardstark and Karen Kilgarra.

[85] We say each other's names.

[86] If that, if you're trying to figure out who's talking, I always say Georgia Hardstark.

[87] It's like a cute, I think it's things people do it on the radio a lot.

[88] It's cute.

[89] It's cute.

[90] So on our, on our fucking story -famed Facebook group, that everyone loves.

[91] That has 11 ,000.

[92] Holy 11.

[93] The last time I looked, it was 9.

[94] 11 ,000 people in it.

[95] And they're all cool.

[96] Somehow they're all fucking cool.

[97] Because everybody gets that everybody else wants everybody to be cool.

[98] Yeah.

[99] And when they're not cool and they like get a talking to, they're like, I'm sorry, cool.

[100] Someone, our last names are kill hard together.

[101] Oh, fuck yeah.

[102] Hard kill.

[103] Hard start and Kilgara.

[104] I like that a lot.

[105] That's, they are kind of badassy murder names.

[106] It's almost like fucking fate.

[107] It's fucking fate.

[108] Hard kill.

[109] That's the name of our TV show.

[110] That's a good idea.

[111] The hard kill.

[112] The hard kill.

[113] The book we write together about.

[114] I feel like if we do the hard kill, we should both dress up as, like, we should dress up like kind of 70s news anchors.

[115] I was going to think you were going to say spy versus spy.

[116] And try to kill each other.

[117] But we have to be vulnerable about it and really disqualify.

[118] discuss it.

[119] Yeah.

[120] I'm like sad.

[121] I feel like I want to come at you with a knife, but...

[122] Hardkill is definitely 70s anchor women.

[123] Yeah.

[124] We're like, we have bows at the neck and...

[125] Feathered hair.

[126] You have feathered hair.

[127] You because you already have this great.

[128] You'll be feathered hair.

[129] I'll do like a Mary Lou Retton full cut.

[130] Oh my God.

[131] How great with that.

[132] Hard kill.

[133] Let's do this thing.

[134] Is anyone listening who wants to make a TV show?

[135] We're specifically talking about FXX.

[136] If anyone from FXX is listening.

[137] We just call out.

[138] Well, you know what?

[139] That's how they do it on The Secret.

[140] You just ask for what you want to the universe or, you know, podcast.

[141] To your podcast listeners.

[142] I just sit in a, at work today, everybody had a conversation about how they don't understand what podcasts are.

[143] And they don't understand why they're popular.

[144] And I just sit there like with my dirty secret that I have two podcasts.

[145] And just keep looking around.

[146] And not only that, you fucking, they bring you joy.

[147] Like, you don't even.

[148] even just have them.

[149] I almost at one point said, it's kind of like if you could control the radio.

[150] Yeah.

[151] It's a radio show.

[152] It's a radio if you liked what you were listening to on the radio.

[153] That's kind of what it's like.

[154] It's a radio show and there are various topics all that span everything and you're always going to find when you're interested in.

[155] Yeah.

[156] It's basically, do you like two dudes just interrupting each other?

[157] They've got that.

[158] They've got a lot of that.

[159] They've got that.

[160] Do you like two grown women who talk like they're in junior high about murder?

[161] We're here.

[162] We've got, hello and welcome.

[163] That's us.

[164] That's this.

[165] Nobody knew that you had two podcasts?

[166] Well, Kreisel knows, my boss knows, but he wasn't saying anything.

[167] Yeah, he was like keeping your secret.

[168] And Fred knows because he's been on one of them.

[169] But he was just, it was just everybody kind of.

[170] I had that exact same feeling.

[171] Before I started listening to a podcast, I was like, why would anyone want to listen to stand -up comics talking that's all i've listened to for the fast 20 years of my life it's so boring unless you're really shit -faced or just mpr nobody likes fucking never mind i'm not gonna talk shit on them yeah let's not be shit talkers i let what i do like is cool music jams that's how i usually spend my time if i'm gonna just listen to something not me fucking audio book you're all about that but then you know when the first couple times i listen to some podcast driving home to San Francisco on the five.

[172] You fall asleep.

[173] God bless.

[174] No, it makes the ride feel like it's an hour long.

[175] I'm a friend who was on a fucking road trip with her boyfriend this weekend texting me. We're listening.

[176] We're on episode 12.

[177] Like totally into it.

[178] Don't you love there was a couple people who are posting on the Facebook page, why don't you guys have an episode 12?

[179] Do we?

[180] Well, it turns out we do.

[181] That's our bodies, our 12s.

[182] Oh, yeah.

[183] another a great title I'll say it myself but I was immediately like oh shoot we because of when we misnumbered the other ones oh yeah when we thought 15 was 16 um I assumed they they were right immediately but it was some weird thing with glitch yeah it was an iTunes glitch or something glitch we should have said this from the beginning because I bet people are fast forwarding through this um this chitchap to the murders that's how I feel about myself That's how my self -same is.

[184] We cannot blame you.

[185] We have T -shirts, and this is the last, if you're listening to this, this, like, now.

[186] Real -time.

[187] Real -time.

[188] This is the last call to this T -shirt.

[189] Today's June 1st.

[190] June 1st.

[191] Happy June.

[192] My favorite murder shirts .com.

[193] Go buy one.

[194] They end.

[195] I don't know.

[196] Wait, how much longer do they have?

[197] I don't know.

[198] I think we'll just leave it up for a couple more days.

[199] so this podcast can come out, this episode can come out, and then people can get it to like Monday or Tuesday.

[200] If it's there, it's still there.

[201] And then, but then...

[202] If not, there'll be a second phase design.

[203] Yeah, but it won't be this design.

[204] No, we're going to do a new one.

[205] And it will be, you will be able to get a t -shirt that says, stay sexy, don't get murdered.

[206] Yeah.

[207] Right?

[208] Yep.

[209] We've already announced that.

[210] Have we?

[211] No, I don't know.

[212] Have we?

[213] I don't know.

[214] I don't listen to this podcast.

[215] I like NPR.

[216] Should we do it?

[217] That's that you're bridging.

[218] So if you hear that noise, you know you can stop fast forwarding through the talking.

[219] That is the dial.

[220] Somebody actually did tweet and ask us if we could please put in markers so that they can get straight to the murders.

[221] I didn't take it that way.

[222] I just started laughing as I was like, as if I would ever know how to do anything technical, ever.

[223] Oh, no. I feel like you get five minutes in.

[224] That's almost.

[225] No, five, ten.

[226] Yeah, let's do five.

[227] No, let's do as much as we fucking want.

[228] You know what?

[229] You know what?

[230] I listen to a podcast called Sleep with me that I'm obsessed with.

[231] You love that podcast.

[232] It helps you follow sleep at night.

[233] It's just a guy telling boring stories and I fast forward the first five minutes and yet I'm yelling at people not to do it.

[234] You know, you got to do what you've got to do.

[235] You know.

[236] Right.

[237] Let's just not be like everyone else.

[238] Everybody, be yourself.

[239] Be yourself.

[240] And especially with podcasts.

[241] And thanks for listening.

[242] Goodbye.

[243] I think that's how you know it's done.

[244] I think we've done that last time.

[245] That'll be the new thing.

[246] That's a good idea.

[247] That's our transition is fake.

[248] Fake hanging on you.

[249] We pretend like we're going to leave the room and the murders are now going to tell themselves.

[250] Let's introduce Karen and Georgia.

[251] That's a good idea.

[252] Yeah, this isn't us.

[253] Yeah, we're the intro.

[254] hosts.

[255] Oh, wait, we're exactly at 10 minutes.

[256] Now, hey, this is exciting.

[257] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[258] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[259] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[260] Who killed Saz?

[261] And were they really after Charles?

[262] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[263] This season, murder hits close to home.

[264] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[265] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[266] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[267] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[268] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[269] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[270] Goodbye.

[271] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[272] Absolutely.

[273] And when you say vintage, Did you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[274] Exactly.

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[286] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[287] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[288] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next.

[289] level today.

[290] That's shopify .com slash murder.

[291] Goodbye.

[292] You're first this week.

[293] I'm first this week.

[294] Okay.

[295] Let's get down to business.

[296] I don't want to mess around.

[297] What is this?

[298] Some circus in town.

[299] We're going to get deep into this shit.

[300] Are you guys ready for our favorite murders?

[301] Wait.

[302] Yes, there.

[303] Where the fuck is my favorite?

[304] We love murder.

[305] Oh, my God.

[306] Oh, my God.

[307] All right.

[308] I'd never heard of this one.

[309] Uh -oh.

[310] The Freeway Phantom Killer?

[311] Oh, shit, y 'all.

[312] You heard of this one?

[313] I don't know.

[314] Oh, man. I don't think so.

[315] This is some fucked up shit.

[316] And here's what I was thinking.

[317] I don't want to...

[318] I want to not only do white women like Martha Moxley getting killed.

[319] Right.

[320] I don't want to do that.

[321] I found this one and I'm like, I've never heard of this.

[322] And it's a fucking serial killer.

[323] We're six young girls.

[324] Ugh.

[325] gotten murdered in the same area.

[326] Are they women of color?

[327] They are all black women.

[328] Yeah, that's fucking, yeah.

[329] And it's tragic.

[330] I'll get into it.

[331] All right, here we go.

[332] So, the freeway phantom was the name given to an unidentified serial killer, known to have abducted rape and strangled six female youths in the Washington, D .C. area from April, 1971 through September in 1972.

[333] too.

[334] That's not even a fucking year.

[335] No. Which immediately makes you think he got arrested right afterwards or moved on.

[336] Oh, because they don't know who it is?

[337] Oh, yeah.

[338] Unidentified still.

[339] Oh, sorry.

[340] Okay.

[341] No, it's fine.

[342] I have some suspects.

[343] The victim for all African American girls between the ages of 10 and 18.

[344] No. No. Sweet baby angels.

[345] Okay.

[346] So the first one was in April 1971, 13.

[347] year old Carol Spinks was sent by her sister to go to a 7 -11 located half a mile away from her home, which is like what you do back then.

[348] You go walk.

[349] And 13.

[350] That's like old enough.

[351] So old.

[352] We used to walk to the store, the corner store, which is like easily a half a mile away every single day from when I was like six years old.

[353] Yeah.

[354] We used to, we used to jaywalk on one of the busiest streets, like encouraged to jaywalk to the store across the street.

[355] Just cut across the street.

[356] Just run fast.

[357] Yeah.

[358] You fucking idiot.

[359] On her way home from the store, Carol was abducted, and her body was found six days later on a grassy embankment next to the northbound lanes of the I -295.

[360] Over a month later, in July, Darlena Johnson, was 16, was abducted while on her way to a summer job at a recreation center.

[361] 11 days later, her body was discovered 15 feet from where Spinks had been found.

[362] So, again, on the freeway, near the freeway.

[363] in July 1971 little 10 -year -old Brenda Crockett failed to return home after having been sent to the store by her mother again three hours up okay here's this interesting three hours after Brenda was last seen because they were immediately like this she should have come home the phone rang and it was answered by her seven -year -old sister who was waiting at home to see if she'd come home while her family was searching the neighborhood Brenda was on the line crying and she said a white man picked me up and I'm heading home in a cab.

[364] And then she added that she believed she was in Virginia before abruptly saying bye and hanging up.

[365] Weird.

[366] What?

[367] A short time later.

[368] Wait, sorry, if it's 1971, how is she calling from being, how is she calling from a cab?

[369] Yeah.

[370] There's a lot of inconsistencies.

[371] Well, let's, I want to hear your opinion on this too.

[372] Okay.

[373] This sucks.

[374] I know.

[375] I'm sorry.

[376] No, no, no. I mean, I guess.

[377] I feel like I can see them in my head.

[378] I do, too.

[379] a short time later the phone rang again and this time it was answered by the boyfriend of brenda's mother it was brenda again and she repeated what she said to her sister and then said did my mother see me and he asked how could she see you when you're in virginia and the boyfriends also said tell the man to come to the phone and tell me where you're at and i'll come get you the boyfriend then heard heavy footsteps in the background and brenda said i'll see you and the line went dead a few hours hours later, Brenda was found by a hitchhiker on Route 50 near the I -295 in a place where she couldn't be missed.

[380] She had been raped and strangled and a scarf is knotted around her neck.

[381] What is...

[382] The thing, did my mom see me, makes me think, she, like, drove by the house in this person's car.

[383] Like, somehow, it was someone they knew.

[384] you know what I mean and the whole it was a white man was maybe and I'm coming home was maybe a the killer told her that told her to say that to throw them off because I bet they didn't expect them to start searching for her so quickly right also maybe she was in the neighborhood I wonder like why would he let her use the phone was she on drugs or drugged in some way that she was saying weird shit like she got chloroformed woke up grab the phone.

[385] Something, I mean.

[386] But why would that happen a couple times?

[387] Yeah.

[388] After the first time.

[389] Where was the guy?

[390] Yeah.

[391] It makes me think that it's someone she knew.

[392] Did my mom see me?

[393] Yeah.

[394] Or maybe he lied to her and said, your mom sent me to come get you or something.

[395] Oh, yeah.

[396] Your mom knows that you're getting in the car with me. Yeah.

[397] Your mom saw what you were doing.

[398] I don't know.

[399] Okay.

[400] Okay.

[401] So authorities quickly concluded that Brenda's call home was at the behest of the killer.

[402] That's just their guess, you know?

[403] Furthermore, one witness reported having seen one of the victims, Ms. Johnson, in an old black car driven by an African -American male shortly after her abduction.

[404] So then in October, 1971, 12 -year -old, Nemo Shia Yates was walking home from a. Safeway Store in northeast Washington, D .C., when she was kidnapped, raped, and strangled.

[405] Her body was found within a few hours of her abduction again, which is interesting that he just doesn't keep the bodies.

[406] Right.

[407] Just off the shoulder of the Pennsylvania Avenue, the shoulder of Pennsylvania Avenue in Maryland.

[408] It's after this murder that the, quote, freeway phantom moniker was first used in the city tabloid article describing the murders.

[409] So, in the last.

[410] murder, it was November 1971.

[411] After having dinner with a high school classmate, Brenda Woodward, 18, boarded a city bus to return to her home.

[412] And six hours later, police officers discovered her body stabbed and strangled in a grassy area near an access ramp to Route 202 in the Baltimore, Washington Parkway.

[413] Okay, so here's a weird...

[414] Oh, no, that's not the final victim.

[415] That's a second to final victim, I'm sorry.

[416] so a coat had been placed over her as if it was like tucking her in and in the pockets there was a note from the killer it said this is tantamount to my sorry this is tantamount to my insensitivity to people especially women i will admit the others when you can catch me exclamation mark sign the freeway phantom but he wrote free dash way the freeway phantom and they're saying that it looks like the note was written by the victim in her own handwriting, but I looked at the note and it looks like a fucking psychopath's handwriting.

[417] It doesn't look like her handwriting.

[418] So were they interpreting it as like a young person's handwriting or?

[419] Yeah.

[420] Like that it wasn't hers, but I didn't, no, no, no, not a young person just like, I don't know why they came to that conclusion and nobody, I'll tell you why nobody knows that.

[421] Um, also is he using the word tantamount correctly?

[422] That will come back around.

[423] Okay.

[424] Yeah, I know what you mean.

[425] Yeah.

[426] This is tantamount to my insensitivity to people especially.

[427] So he's saying this is the point.

[428] This is how much I don't like people or don't care about people, especially women.

[429] Right.

[430] That's what his point is.

[431] I always thought that meant tantamount meant equivalent though.

[432] That's what it means.

[433] So I think this murder of this girl is equivalent to how much I don't give a shit about people.

[434] Okay.

[435] I mean, It's not used correctly.

[436] Got it.

[437] So, September, 1972.

[438] I don't know why I'm so worried about grammar all this sudden.

[439] No, because it actually comes back, it's an interesting word to use that one would think can be, like in the jinx, how he spelled Beverly.

[440] Yes.

[441] Which helped get him caught is a fucking great clue.

[442] Every single thing can be a clue.

[443] Every dot of the eye can, like, can indicate something.

[444] Indicate or exonerate.

[445] something.

[446] Yeah, that's right.

[447] So September 1972, the phantom's final victim.

[448] So the high school senior, Diane Williams, she had cooked dinner for her family and then visited her boyfriend's house.

[449] She was last seen boarding a bus again.

[450] And a short time later, her strangled body was discovered alongside the I -295, just south of the district line.

[451] So those are the murders.

[452] they raid yeah so 30 the slings supposedly triggered one of the largest investigations in the region of seen two dozen detectives were assigned to the hunt initially and the FBI was called in until Watergate diverted the agency's manpower oh man man fucking rich politicians ruin it again with their stupid bullshit yep it's my cat kicking you a little bit okay I'm sorry So among the individuals considered were a gang known as the Green Vega rapists.

[453] That's a fucking cheery name.

[454] Jesus Christ.

[455] Do you think they danced?

[456] What were they up to?

[457] No, just simple little.

[458] They played craps.

[459] Members of this gang were collectively responsible for numerous Washington, D .C., and surrounding Maryland vicinity rapes and abductions that have curved near the Washington Beltway.

[460] so everyone thought it was them one dude was like one of the gang members and they were all incarcerated was like I know it wasn't me at nothing to do with it I know who did it if you don't say who I am if you keep me anonymous I'll give you information and they were like okay and he was going to identify the guy the date and location of the crime and a signature detail which was not provided to the public but which was known only to the perpetrator and to detectives that signature information was correct the inmate who provided the information because he wasn't involved blah blah blah he'd an alibi verified alibi um but during this period an election was being held in maryland and one of the candidates publicly announced to the press that a break had occurred in the freeway phantom investigation and provided that an inmate at the prison where this guy was at had given information no after that announcement the inmate who provided the information was like killed no not killed but maybe eventually but he was like later days and denied that he had anything uh he was just just like, I'm out.

[461] You rube.

[462] Total room.

[463] You idiot politician.

[464] You fucking idiot.

[465] And looking through the, I don't think he, I don't think they had any, that they were involved.

[466] I don't think, the green, vaguer rapists.

[467] Looking at the evidence and their, their MO, and this sounds like the work of one person.

[468] I don't think this was them.

[469] And it's like, raping, rape is a different crime.

[470] than murdering, kidnapping, raping, murdering, with bare hands, disposing of a body.

[471] Yeah, I would think that in gangs, like, it reminds me of, like, Hell's Angels or something, where they take women, they don't, usually, raping a 10 -year -old child is, crosses a line, even when you are a gang member, even when you are, like, pedophilia and all that kind of shit is not, that's not just standard.

[472] No. Activity.

[473] Gaining access and the trusts of these.

[474] girls and to get you know he had to have gotten them in his car somehow that's right they had have gone with him somehow it's a it's wolf and she's clothing if you see a gang member if you see three gang members coming at you fucking run you don't get in their car even then children or talk don't talk to strangers so if you see but yeah if you see gang members you're not going to fucking get in the car yeah all right so I don't think it's them but the case is still open as we said so fucked up let's see here all right so and there's not the last article I could find from any of this was from 2013 so and at that time all right let's here we go so the DC police detective James Trainum he's kind of the dude now who's like I'm gonna try to or have was like 2006 he's like I'm going to get this sucker yeah and a lucky hit on DNA sample could change all that So here, but here's the fucking thing.

[475] Everything got lost or destroyed.

[476] All of the fucking evidence.

[477] And that's why that note, there's a photo of it, but, you know, there's no way to test it.

[478] Everything got thrown away and destroyed.

[479] No. Yep.

[480] But the good news is that because it was in different districts, they were able to find a DNA sample from a district that, not the main district.

[481] Oh.

[482] So Maryland has, Maryland State Police have a sample found on Williams, one of the girls who was killed.

[483] And they had never tested it because she was leaving her boyfriends.

[484] So they figured that she had had sex with her boyfriend that night.

[485] So they never fucking tested the DNA.

[486] What?

[487] Why wouldn't they ask her?

[488] She was dead.

[489] Oh, my God.

[490] I'm so sorry.

[491] Oh, my.

[492] Ask him.

[493] Ask him.

[494] I forgot what podcast.

[495] cast I was on.

[496] Oh my God.

[497] They did ask him and he said they didn't have sex.

[498] It's so irritating.

[499] Like anytime you talk about like police making assumptions, I just, my mind goes to like, what?

[500] And this is why people, I don't want to like, I don't want to just fucking bury all the cops and this and everything because this is how stuff was done back then.

[501] This was how stuff was done.

[502] That's right.

[503] And it seems like they did put a lot of work into it, but if you ask the families, which there's a lot of interviews from the families, they fucking didn't.

[504] And the families are like, it's because if these were all blonde white women, this would have been solved.

[505] That's exactly right.

[506] And, you know, you can't help but believe that.

[507] Well, of course, of course that's true.

[508] Of course it is.

[509] That's just been tested out time and again.

[510] But the other thing is that the attitude of these cops is, like immediately you're you're the victim of a crime you're dead you've been murdered and suddenly it's like well she fucked her boy yeah there is you can hear the slut shaming through the years and you and you just know that that's they they were it makes me crazy it's just like not treating people with respect even in death I agree and this is why I wanted to do this this is why when I was looking for the next one I was like I've never fucking heard about this yeah and this is like six children got fucking murdered and there's nobody who got ever, you know, fingered for it.

[511] It's insane.

[512] Yeah.

[513] So this guy trained him.

[514] He took it up as a cold case in 2004.

[515] He was like, I'm going to solve this.

[516] He thought he had a key piece of evidence that on the clothing of the phantom's last known victim, they found a potential DNA sample.

[517] Let's see here.

[518] okay so because her body was discovered over this over the district line in prince george maryland police initially handled the case and so they had this information and so it's like this i found all these articles that they're like so the DNA testing will be done if the sample yields a good profile it'll be submitted to the database blah -bidi -blah but the last fucking thing i can find about that was from 2013 so i don't know if it's been tested or i feel like there should be money.

[519] I think there's a hundred and fifty, oh, to test it.

[520] Well, I'm, I'm just saying, I feel like people in this country need jobs.

[521] And like, there's like the whole thing of like old rape kits that haven't gone tested.

[522] And they're actually doing, what I love is Mariska Harcate is doing all that work to change it, which God bless her.

[523] And all the other people, there's a bunch of people that are like, there is the woman that's the mayor of, she the, she, the, she.

[524] city councilwoman in Detroit or she's the mayor of somewhere it's on the Facebook page that's where I read it but these people that are just stepping up and being like a no no but I feel like some company could make money why aren't they just prioritizing this the way they do everything else in terms of financial gain pay people like get it going okay let's let's change that and let's change statute of limitations on rape which is insane There's a, I just want everyone to think about that.

[525] There's a statute of limitations on fucking rape, even if it's pedophilia.

[526] Yeah.

[527] And if it's a 10 -year -old girl that was just trying to go to the corner store.

[528] Yeah.

[529] And here's one thing I'll change is I'll remember that the people that we're talking about are dead.

[530] I don't know what, I don't know what just happened.

[531] Were you really thinking that, like, in your brain?

[532] You worked all day.

[533] What's that?

[534] The second that you.

[535] started saying that of like they just assumed she had sex with a boyfriend.

[536] I just went down that whole thing of like how many stories to this day in 2016 you hear of judges being the sexism and the misogyny that you hear to this day in the legal system.

[537] And the reason why you'll never know the exact number of rape victims is because why would you go, why would you come forward with this rape if you know you're going to be like, well, you fucked your boyfriend earlier so it's probably not it's just sickening i mean it's it's happening less and less but the fact that it still happens at all is just a disgrace it's just like we need to do better as the human race we do so train him called on an expert who specializes in this is a fucking fascinating fact specializes in narrowing the field of suspects kim rosmo she's a former Canadian police officer and professor at texas state university developed a computer system that plots crime events on a map and helps determine where the suspects quote anchor point or home or workplace or significant location might be how fucking cool is that yeah so they spent weeks looking through reports together they visited the crime scene and they developed a geographic profile of the killer's movements i mean they think the anchor point was in congress heights just south of the of the hospital i don't really understand nothing came out of that so they have a suspect that I think sounds pretty good.

[538] So there's this dude Robert Askins, ASK -I -N -S, who's also some, like, web developer.

[539] So when you Google him, put murder in.

[540] He had been charged with raping a 24 -year woman in his house.

[541] He had killed prostitutes.

[542] He had been charged three times with homicide.

[543] He was in St. Elizabeth's Hospital, which is down the street from where they thought that he lived, that the killer lived and had later been convicted in a 1938 killing of a prostitute by cyanide poisoning.

[544] Jesus Christ.

[545] But it said instead of been overturned on legal technicalities and saying that he was too impaired to stand too drunk at the time to be liable for it.

[546] Did you say 1938?

[547] Yeah.

[548] So when he was really young and he was probably doing, if it was him, doing these ones when he was way older.

[549] Yeah.

[550] So they arrested him in 77 for something else they found some okay so here's the information interesting part so they went through his stuff and they found in his desk drawer a footnote from the judge the judge's sentence and the word tantamount had been had been used over and over in that and later he would learn that this guy askins you often use the word at the national science foundation where he used as he was worked as a crime as a computer technician so everyone he worked with was like he used the word tantamount a lot I've never fucking used that word I've never used that word I've never heard anybody else use that word that's like a that's like a fucking Elmer Fudd word yeah there's a tantamount to do that's crazy and also he was this guy white no that's fascinating was like a black computer scientist in the 60s and 70s?

[551] Can I say something?

[552] Yeah.

[553] I don't know if he was white.

[554] You don't know if he was white or black?

[555] Yeah.

[556] That's very interesting.

[557] I'm going to edit that out because I should have seen that.

[558] But I couldn't find any photos of him.

[559] Oh, I guess I assumed he was black because they saw the one girl in car with the black guy.

[560] Right.

[561] But that doesn't mean anything.

[562] Okay, we'll take it out.

[563] Technicians found on all six victims.

[564] green synthetic carpet fiber, excuse me, on all, but one of the victims' clothing.

[565] And they couldn't find anything like that in this dude's house.

[566] And they dug up his backyard, and they didn't find anything.

[567] He was never charged.

[568] He's 87 serving a life sentence in a federal prison.

[569] I think he died in like 2009 or so.

[570] But on his record, he had already been arrested for killing people three other times.

[571] Yeah, but they were always prostitutes.

[572] But when he was asked by a reporter, Later, he said, I didn't do those crimes, but I hated women so much.

[573] Like, he almost was like, I wish I had.

[574] Wow.

[575] Yeah.

[576] Wow, that's crazy.

[577] So it's still an open case.

[578] Maybe I called the crime hotline in the county.

[579] Oh, yeah?

[580] And asked if they had checked the, if they had searched the DNA.

[581] To get an update?

[582] And they, like, didn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

[583] And I felt like an idiot.

[584] Hey, at least you tried.

[585] I don't know.

[586] wonder how you do find out about stuff like that.

[587] I think you have to be some kind of authority.

[588] I don't think they'll just give that out.

[589] I'll find out about that.

[590] Can someone who's like in forensics find out if that...

[591] Yeah, or just people that are listening if you want to be a sleuth, try to find out updates on the freeway phantom murders.

[592] Weird of the last thing I saw was like they're trying to test the DNA and then...

[593] And then just nothing.

[594] Not even like there was no match or it was inconclusive.

[595] I mean, I'm just curious.

[596] it's well and also it's just that it's such a quagmire of like DNA and testing and all that stuff it's like there are some places where it's it takes years yeah i mean yeah especially places where they have high crime that's not their priority and this guy's probably dead whoever it is right but these people but the families deserve answers and that's the point is that families deserve answers just as much as any other family sorry wow I don't know why I get, I'm surprised every time that I'm like, oh, that was heavy.

[597] Your story from last week, it ruined people.

[598] Yeah.

[599] It ruined me from like age eight.

[600] Yeah, I can see that.

[601] It's so heavy.

[602] It's horrifying.

[603] It's so intense.

[604] What was her name?

[605] Mary Vincent.

[606] But that's the thing I love is that all the people on the Facebook page just keep talking about what a badass Mary Vincent is.

[607] Totally.

[608] She really is.

[609] I mean, of course she's had hard times in her life.

[610] and you know struggles how could you not but the thing is that she's like you know i i really encourage everybody if you liked that story to watch her episode of i survived because she tells her own story it's amazing he turns out how to daughter her age larry singleton yeah and she's written a few things being like i read somebody posted an article on on the page but i had read that article and it just wasn't there didn't seem to be pertinent information it was just kind of like this sucked for me too yeah which totally made sense but it just seemed like it was long enough and i didn't want to go into i agree into that but yeah necessary also just i feel like with all these people you could if you did go into all that kind of research you'd be talking about we'd be talking about them for weeks yeah because it's like what what what was larry singleton's past that he got to that point i would love to know that total and is it possible that he just did two crimes to No way.

[611] Fuck no. No way.

[612] Just like this with this case, the Freeway Phantom he either got incarcerated or died or moved and did the same shit somewhere else.

[613] Yes.

[614] Like there's no way he just had a less than a year killing spree of six women.

[615] No. Girls and then just stopped.

[616] That doesn't happen or that was the beginning.

[617] I just had a fantasy of like someday them in the same way that that woman developed that computer thing of like here's the area that the person might be in.

[618] I actually saw that on numbers one time which is a show I'll watch every once in a while.

[619] Have you ever watched numbers with the backwards three?

[620] Yeah, I know that one.

[621] Or the front watch three being used, isn't he?

[622] Yeah.

[623] But one day they could connect, you know how like we were talking about that one killer and then we're like he could also be the alphabet killer from Rochester?

[624] The Hillside Strangler.

[625] No, that was from last podcast and left.

[626] one of the Hillside Stranglerers, they thought Kenneth Bianchi might be the alphabet.

[627] But remember my guy that was in Marin, who also, because he had a victim of the same name, like if there was a computer program that somehow could start linking commonalities in these cases and being like, sure, this person lived in Utah, Texas, and Maryland, but look at all of these, you know, and slings.

[628] And he had a cousin in Utah.

[629] He was from Maryland, and he briefly visited.

[630] visited Nevada where all these other murders happened at that time.

[631] I love when they when they do piece those together, I'm so happy.

[632] It's so satisfying.

[633] It's like get a big homeland map of red string and let's start seeing where all these things actually connect.

[634] It's so great when a detective can be like let's, he was, this guy's clearly a drifter, where was he during these times?

[635] Yeah.

[636] Calls the local precinct and I was like, do you have any murders that look like this?

[637] And they're like, we've been waiting for this call for you.

[638] And then you hear the the forensic files do -do -do -do like fuck a commercial all right do you want to hear this week's my favorite murder yes please this is one I want to do for a while and I have to say when I was looking up the different ones that I wanted to do today I am very tired from my work having to work and do things do homework as well I know I'm not used to it I'm kind of more of a a lady of leisure but I realized that all the ones I want to do are episodes of I Survive that I've seen that I loved and I was like I can't just keep retelling I survive stories Can't you?

[639] I guess I can though because I did again And if you add little details in that they didn't add in Right well because that's all firsthand account So it's basically the person saying this was like what it was like for me to go through it But I just love that show so much because they are amazing.

[640] The stories themselves are crazy and amazing.

[641] I'm not going to watch it because I just want to hear from you.

[642] Okay.

[643] Oh, that's perfect.

[644] Then I'll never have to bust myself again.

[645] But they did a special and I survived of the Norway attacks.

[646] I don't know if you remember those, but they were the attacks on July 22nd in 2011 where Anders Bering Breivik, who was a crazy fucking right -wing, fascist, lunatic, racist asshole first blew up a government building in Oslo and then went on to an island that had a summer camp I remember this horror horrifying go on all right so there is I can't remember I couldn't find the actual season and episode number but if you look up the Norway attacks I survived they have a special episode where it's four different kids who are on the island who survived these attacks and it also they speak perfect english oh my god what um oslo's like isn't it's the most peaceful place in the fucking world they they um not since world war two had they had violence like this in their country um it also has the most beautiful people my college roommate christin was obsessed with norway and she went there one summer she talked about it constantly and she showed me these pictures she like We went there and we went to this music festival.

[647] And everyone was just like a gorgeous blonde model.

[648] They are truly amazing.

[649] So yeah, it's pretty great.

[650] I mean, they've got it down.

[651] But of course, there's always got to be an asshole to ruin things.

[652] Totally.

[653] So this guy, Anders Bering Breivik, he drove a van with a bomb made of fertilizer and fuel oil, which was similar to the Oklahoma bombing, Oklahoma City bombing.

[654] He went and drove that and parked it next to the building where the office of the prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg was, and that van blew up.

[655] It killed eight people and it injured 209, 12 of them very seriously.

[656] Luckily, fewer people than normal were in the area because it was during, in July.

[657] So most people, that's the vacation month for Norwegians.

[658] And it was a Friday afternoon.

[659] So government people were gone for the day.

[660] Why did he do that?

[661] Because he was, he had posted a video on YouTube the day before where he was wearing a scuba suit and holding AK -47 and talking about he wanted to rid his nation of Muslims.

[662] Yeah, the Muslims are the problem, you fucking psychopath.

[663] You fucking terrorist.

[664] You are a terrorist trying to point the finger at...

[665] Another case of if you don't like them, kill yourself.

[666] Exactly.

[667] This guy should have...

[668] It's too much for you.

[669] Take yourself out.

[670] Yeah.

[671] Or maybe try therapy.

[672] Pills?

[673] I don't know.

[674] But look at the irony of the fact that you are calling every...

[675] You want your nation cleansed of people.

[676] And the answer to that is...

[677] We're actually asking people who are psychotic.

[678] to look at the irony of their statements.

[679] Anyway, we're the naive ones, Georgia.

[680] I know, but I'd rather be, I'm okay with that.

[681] I know, it's true.

[682] So, okay, so he does this hideous bombing.

[683] All of Oslo's just going nuts, because it doesn't happen there.

[684] It does not happen there.

[685] And then less than two hours later, this guy Breivik, he's dressed up like a cop.

[686] Yeah?

[687] That's not fair.

[688] Like, I call bullshit on that.

[689] It's the creepiest worst, that thing where you immediately have the, trust of people and you're manipulating that trust.

[690] So he gets on a ferry and he takes the ferry over to the island of Yutoya.

[691] I'm going to pronounce it like a dirty American and as I will every other word in this article that is basically sounds like me reading an IKEA catalog.

[692] It's going to be that bad.

[693] I wonder if any murderer has ever taken a ferry to his to his murder place.

[694] You know what I mean?

[695] Yeah.

[696] That seems almost like...

[697] Maybe that should be next week's theme.

[698] Yeah.

[699] I feel like you should have taken a like a moat.

[700] Like what are the ones where you stand up and room across the...

[701] Oh, like a gondola?

[702] No. A jet ski.

[703] Oh, okay.

[704] Like a jet ski.

[705] A ski do?

[706] Something but a fucking fairies.

[707] He had to jump on the ferry with all the other commuters.

[708] So he goes over to this, a summer camp.

[709] The average age of the campers are 18.

[710] No, why?

[711] The Norwegian Youth Labor Party.

[712] So it's basically, it would be like if a bunch of young Democrats.

[713] And there was a lot of children that were related to higher -ups in the government.

[714] Yes, government workers and people that were.

[715] So he was sending a message strictly to these people, which, like, when has that ever worked?

[716] When are people ever going to be like, okay?

[717] I mean, here's the thing.

[718] if your plan is to kill people's children, you're the bad guy.

[719] Sorry.

[720] Anyway, yeah, that's why I'm doing it again.

[721] So he goes over onto the island of Yutoya.

[722] He is dressed like a cop, and he tells them they hear about the bombing in Oslo, which is, of course, like, it's a national emergency.

[723] Totally.

[724] So he, as dressed as a police officer, goes to say that he's come for a routine check because there's all these diplomatial, and politicians, children on this island.

[725] So he's there to check if everybody's okay.

[726] Sure.

[727] So he meets with Monica, a woman named Monica Boise, who is the camp leader and the island hostess.

[728] And she, there is also a man who is the security officer on the island named Trond Bernston.

[729] And he was also an off -duty cop.

[730] Oh, please do something.

[731] He killed, Brevet killed both of them immediately.

[732] I was going to be like, maybe this guy.

[733] Yeah, no. So he basically, he gets on, gets access to the island immediately meets with the people in charge, takes out the adults in charge.

[734] How surprised do you have to be to have that happen to you?

[735] Like, Mom, before you die.

[736] Oh my God, it's the last thing you expect.

[737] Yeah.

[738] And so he goes down.

[739] So in this episode of I survived, the kids tell this story.

[740] But there was a lot of kids, they had gathered everybody up to tell them that this bombing had happened in Oslo.

[741] So then there were still people sitting on this big kind of outside area kind of standing around and talking about it and this guy shows up dressed as a cop and he calls everyone around ask them to gather up and then just start shooting and so so the kids have it's like they've just gotten this terrible news then this starts happening they have no idea what's going on like you don't even know to run because it's so surreal it's so surreal that's what they all say and he's dressed like a police So on top of it, they don't understand what's happening.

[742] Yeah, because they probably still think he's a policeman.

[743] It's not like you're like, oh, this guy lied.

[744] Right, exactly.

[745] And also, you're far away enough.

[746] So if you're seeing it happen, like they think, is this some sort of huge prank or is it an emergency?

[747] Some of the kids said that on the other parts of the island, because they did have, it wasn't strange that there would be gunshots on the island because they were out in nature.

[748] And they said that wasn't a weird thing.

[749] Yeah, that that didn't surprise them.

[750] But then it was when they heard screaming, that they were.

[751] realized something bad was happening.

[752] This island is also very small.

[753] Is that?

[754] Yeah.

[755] So for the next hour and a half.

[756] No. Yep.

[757] This guy.

[758] Rampage.

[759] Walking and running around the island, picking kids off.

[760] No, no, no. Where do they hide?

[761] It's such a nightmare.

[762] So some kids hid in a freezer.

[763] And there's kids that told a story of hiding in a freezer, like five kids.

[764] He walked into the kitchen area all the way around and to the freezer, but didn't.

[765] didn't look inside and walked away.

[766] And that's the reason they survived.

[767] And there's kids, they, it's, there's article after article where kids tell stories like that where they were in their bunk, they all went under mattresses or whatever, and they just held their breath and hid.

[768] And then there's other stories that these kids tell from I survived where like they're hiding and their phone goes off because the parents, yeah, are calling to see if they're okay.

[769] And that's what gives them away.

[770] It's, it's bone chilling.

[771] This guy just walks around picking off.

[772] kids.

[773] I always want to know like in the in I always immediately think when I hear stories like that or like Columbine or school shootings like where would I be in that room like where would I hide where would I be yes it's you're never gonna you're never gonna know if it's the right place to go or not well and also when you're in a panic situation like that you're just gonna make do with what the best you know thing that's near you it's just luck it's dumb luck and random fate totally it's terrible the other thing too is he had enough time that he was going around he shot kids and then there was some kids who were just laying there pretending to be dead he had enough time to go back around and double check and shoot them if they weren't dead so it's fucked so some kids had places to hide some kids would come out of the places where they were hiding and then realize that the guy wasn't gone yet so they would you know they would hide for half an hour and then think it must be all clear And it's just because they weren't hearing screaming anymore.

[774] You guys, don't leave your hiding place until a real clap comes.

[775] I don't know.

[776] But how would you know?

[777] As I was saying that, I was like, that's.

[778] This is why, I mean, this is such a terrible worst case scenario because it's also in a place where nothing, they don't have school shootings.

[779] They don't have stuff like that happen.

[780] It's not common at all.

[781] And then they're also, it's just a kid's camp.

[782] It's like such, so much innocent.

[783] that it's just the most surreal.

[784] A bunch of kids jump into the lake and start swimming away across, and now it's really cold water.

[785] Really cold water.

[786] And thank God there were people that were on the islands across and in the houses that heard stuff, heard gunshots, heard screaming.

[787] At first thought that the gunshots must have been fire crackers, whatever.

[788] But there was one guy who had a big boat who heard it.

[789] and oh got a call to say something bad is happening you have to go over to that island he thought it was a prank but went anyway God bless he saved 30 kids because he just went he was like this sounds like nothing but I will go anyway there were kids in the water he was throwing out life jackets to kids who he couldn't fit on the boat they did like four trips he did that he was a local named Marcel Giaz is how I'm going to think it's pronounced.

[790] He was a German residence that was staying at a camping area on the mainland, and he got his boat out there.

[791] Then there was another 40 kids were saved by Heggy, H -E -E -E -Dalin, and Torrell Hanson, who was a married couple who are holidaying nearby.

[792] This was this Wikipedia was clearly written by a foreign person using words like holidaying.

[793] Dalen was helping from land so kids were swimming up onto land and she was getting them to safety while Hanson and another neighbor were making boat trip rescues and then there was a man named Casper Alegg who made three trips to the island in his boat and oh sorry Casper is the one who thought initially it was a prank, but went anyway.

[794] Altogether, 150 kids swam away from the island and were pulled out of the fjord by campers on the opposite shore.

[795] Holy shit.

[796] So that's an, it always makes me feel better when you hear that, like other citizens taking action and helping out.

[797] But the thing was, this motherfucker, once he saw that kids were getting into the water, went down and just started strafing the water.

[798] So he was in berser mode, as they liked to say on last podcast on the last.

[799] he was in the mode where he was no one was going to live how did they stop him um basically the cops finally showed up after an hour and a half why did it take so long because they were at the other they were at the other bombing they were at the other bombing and they didn't get word and all there it was a bunch of different stuff but yeah it basically just took them that that was how far away it was and how long it took um uh they they they finally got on you know You know, it was a bunch of cops in, like, full riot gear and SWAT type gear went on and just made an announcement saying, put your gun down.

[800] And I think at that point, he was done.

[801] Yeah.

[802] Because they said he had made a couple of calls, too.

[803] So I think it was that kind of thing where it was like he made his first round and then it was just like he was coming down off of it.

[804] And he was ready to put his message out too, probably.

[805] Yeah.

[806] It was like not, this wasn't just to kill people.

[807] this was like a message.

[808] It was absolutely a message.

[809] And it was this kind of thing of like we need to take our country back.

[810] And this is how we're going to do it.

[811] We're going to deliver the message to these politicians and to these people who are, quote, unquote, allowing things to happen.

[812] So at the end of the day, Breivik had killed 68 children outright.

[813] 68 children.

[814] Oh, my God.

[815] That's more that was in my high school graduating class.

[816] That makes me so sad.

[817] It's terrible.

[818] And then he injured 110, 505 of them seriously.

[819] The 69th victim died in the hospital two days later.

[820] So he was arrested.

[821] He was examined by a court -appointed forensic psychiatrist, and he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

[822] And they concluded that he was psychotic at the time of the attacks and criminally insane.

[823] But they, when it came, time to have him go to court, they did a second psychiatric evaluation and found that he was not criminally and saying that he was fully aware of what he was doing.

[824] It was planned and it had been planned for years because not only did he post that YouTube video the night before, but he had been, for years had been talking and ranting about this xenophobic shit of we need to get these people out.

[825] And of course, he had a manifesto.

[826] So they find the manifesto.

[827] And There are sections that he ripped off directly from the Unabomber without attributing.

[828] And he just replaced, he replaced leftists, which was Unabomber, with cultural Marxists.

[829] When he got on to, when he first started shooting the kids, he kept yelling, today is the day you die Marxists.

[830] So he was accusing everybody of being, you know, like communists or whatever.

[831] Man, my children.

[832] I mean, not that adults are any better, but it's just like...

[833] Because that's going to send like the fastest worst message.

[834] And it's also, it's, that's a person who wants to do evil.

[835] Yeah.

[836] This isn't just, you know, you send it, you, you park a van that has a bomb in it next to a government building.

[837] And you're trying to, that's chaos and mayhem.

[838] You're trying to create.

[839] Yeah.

[840] And you're walking away from it.

[841] It's not like your point blank shooting, like, but when, but that is like...

[842] He took it to the next level because he, wanted he's evil and he wanted evil to be done which is like what do you who do you think you are to protect anybody from anything or pretend that's what your intentions are when what you are doing is killing children of your own country that's that's where your argument falls apart yeah um so he also in this manifesto um said he was an admirer of the tea party movement of america oh well there you go So, you know, just know that.

[843] Know who you're appealing to.

[844] On August 24th, he was found to be sane by that panel of judges and sentenced to preventative detention, which is a sentence of 21 years in prison that can be repeatedly extended by five years as long as the person is considered a threat to society.

[845] That's not long enough.

[846] He should have been fucking...

[847] It's the maximum sentence.

[848] allowed by Norwegian law, and the only way to get to allow for life imprisonment is to get the 21 -year sentence and then re -up it every five years, to re -examine it every five years.

[849] So it's a version of parole, of a parole board.

[850] They just don't do the whole, we sentence you to 200 years in prison or whatever.

[851] He's just never going to.

[852] Like, how unsatisfying.

[853] There's something about sentencing someone to life in prison or a fuck into the death penalty that's like satisfying in a way.

[854] You know what I mean?

[855] Right.

[856] Not that I believe in the death penalty or don't, but if something so satisfying, something about like 20 years to life is like kind of a bummer.

[857] It's a bummer, but the good thing is that it seems like these guys do it in almost the opposite way.

[858] What they're saying is you can only sentence to someone, sentence someone to prison for 21 years, and then you have to keep looking at it.

[859] So it's not like you go into prison and rot because it's that thing of worrying about sending someone who shouldn't be there.

[860] So it checks in balance that, yeah, isn't satisfying in the outright, but this is a man who will never...

[861] You kill politicians' children.

[862] You're never getting out of prison.

[863] Yeah.

[864] Although I did, there was an article about that he...

[865] Their prisons are so nice.

[866] They look like college dorm rooms.

[867] Oh, my God, I bet.

[868] I mean, because it's just everything that's just a higher quality of life there.

[869] They do everything better.

[870] Yeah.

[871] So, yeah, there was some...

[872] He was petitioning to get an even nicer room because his really nice room wasn't nice enough.

[873] Fuck you.

[874] And this article, it's just insanity when you read it.

[875] You're just like, oh, you don't even understand how good you have it.

[876] And, like, in American prisons, they have, like, four people to a cell and, you know, it's...

[877] God, it just, it makes me sick and it makes me, it makes me not be able to say that I don't support the death penalty.

[878] You know what I mean?

[879] Like, I don't, I'm not saying I do, but it makes it harder.

[880] Okay, what about fucking vigil?

[881] anti -justice.

[882] Can we can we do that instead?

[883] But this is, in his mind he was a vigilante.

[884] No, you're right.

[885] It just keeps turning back on itself.

[886] I know.

[887] There's no, we the instinct is we feel like we know who's doing wrong and we want to take that person out which is, I do it all the time, I feel it all the time.

[888] But there is that thing of like, especially when we're getting into like paid prisons, when we're getting into like a prison for pay that whole world is so ugly and scary because then you're then you have people who are making money off of people being incarcerated right and that's terrible but you know then we talk about a guy like we talk about people like larry singleton we talk about a guy like if they caught the freeway phantom then i'd go to the back of the head yeah i mean you want it to be that simple i know turns out life is complicated it's difficult to manage it's very scary we're always trying as um i think her name was pauline who made the poster on the facebook page one of my favorite lines on that awesome fucking poster that she made was uh go on a journey with the fear that that's kind of what we're doing on this podcast which made me love her for like even extracting that level of meaning that's so philosophical.

[889] Thank you.

[890] You and I just think we're just like spouting shit off but I mean I hope that I feel I'm happier in my life because we're doing this.

[891] Yeah because we're actually talking about stuff that we're afraid of and it's important.

[892] We're finding out so many people feel the same way and are feeling like finding their people.

[893] Yes.

[894] That you don't have to just feel like you're stuck in a victim stance you can actually like explore it in a safe way and hopefully be educated and I don't know.

[895] You're not a sick fuck if you're fascinated by this stuff because it's fucking human condition is fascinating.

[896] And we care about it because it's stuff that like it's women and it's people who don't have a voice and it's these untested rape kits where like the first thing I think of is if I make money again where I actually pay off my debts and fix my shit, I will donate money to whatever Mariska Hargitay is doing.

[897] Definitely.

[898] Because that means a lot to me and we've found a community of people it means a lot to that's cool let's make a I still stand behind my the Facebook group we can solve a cold case together I mean that's how Reddit's doing it I know it's amazing wait really quick did you see the thing that they posted of those three women who were in a restaurant I think it was in Malibu or in San Monica and they saw the guy putting the stuff in the girls drink yes I know one of the girls who's friends with one of the girls yes amazing I loved that There were three women in a Santa Monica restaurant, fig. Fig, I think it was called.

[899] And friends having happy hour, which we love to do.

[900] One of the girls sees from across the room a guy whose date had gotten up and gone to the bathroom.

[901] He fucking slidly slipped something in her drink.

[902] But the girl at the bar was like, fucking saw that, goes into the bathroom, confronts the girl and is like, I saw your guy do this.

[903] And then they also tell the manager.

[904] I saw the guy do this, we need to do something.

[905] And she sits with him for this whole dinner.

[906] They're watching him.

[907] He keeps trying to cheers her to get her to drink.

[908] She's not drinking.

[909] And they keep, the manager's like, there's nothing I can do.

[910] But then they review the tape and the security camera.

[911] They see him do it.

[912] They keep telling him that the register's broken.

[913] And they, you know, they're trying to get him his check.

[914] And the fucking Santa Monica PD comes in.

[915] Yep.

[916] And they get him.

[917] There's a photo of him now online.

[918] Oh, really?

[919] That is, that story is so intense because that girl was so freaked out because she was like, he's a friend of mine.

[920] He's a good friend of mine from like a while.

[921] Like, it wasn't a first date.

[922] No, she'd known him for a year and a half, it said.

[923] And then here's another red flag.

[924] The girls were like, couldn't we give you a ride to your car?

[925] Like, where's your car?

[926] And she's like, the car is at his place because he had me meet him at his house.

[927] So he had been, like, you know what I mean?

[928] It's like, let's go back to your car.

[929] It's at my house.

[930] it's such a predatory thing and so they put up a photo of him and they're like if anyone else has a similar story come forward yeah that's amazing that's a night one of those nice stories of uh the victim getting the it's yeah it's not victim blaming it's taking everything i don't know well it's protection it's that we can actually help each other we should help each other and reach out to each other and not be like if if those women were different types of women who either A didn't pay attention or B were like, I don't want to get involved, then something terrible could have happened.

[931] But instead they were being like kind of nosy Nellies and being like, sorry, I'm going to say something.

[932] Yeah, absolutely.

[933] And I think you and I would, and hopefully I think other people listening would be paying attention to those things and seeing that this guy is doing this weird fucking thing.

[934] And, you know, when we're on our own dates and at a bar, like noticing weird fucking people's behavior.

[935] I think that's the point for me is that like i want to be aware of every level we can take this this anxiety and obsession and actually use it for good yeah let's use our powers of anxiety for good and not evil and also let's stay sexy and let's not get murdered we love you