Colin Hanks & Allison Tolman

[0] Hello, everybody.

[1] Welcome to armchair experts.

[2] We are doing this introduction overlooking beautiful Lake Austin.

[3] It's really pretty.

[4] It's quite incredible.

[5] We're not going home.

[6] Team Armchair rented a house on the lake leading up to our live show.

[7] And my goodness, is it spectacular?

[8] I don't want to brag, so I'm going to ask Monica to do it for me. Okay, I'll brag.

[9] Monica, tell them what record was just said.

[10] Oh.

[11] There was a treading water.

[12] We can't be positive.

[13] It's a record.

[14] I'm just going to say that.

[15] We're pretty certain.

[16] For you, it's a record.

[17] Yeah.

[18] And it was kind of a challenge to Charlie, my dream boat in the Perfect 10 calendar, who's much more fit than me. Yeah, you wanted to beat him.

[19] At something.

[20] At one thing in life.

[21] Yes, just one thing would have been fine.

[22] And so you picked treading water.

[23] Yeah.

[24] And you just treading water for an hour and one minute.

[25] One hour, one minute of straight treading.

[26] No cheating.

[27] No cheating.

[28] No bullshit.

[29] Straight Tread.

[30] And we created a workout that we're hoping we'll sweep the nation called Turtle Tread.

[31] And then we yell things like, shows up!

[32] And then an actual turtle came by.

[33] Well, yeah, that's what prompted calling it Turtle Tread.

[34] Okay, now, without further ado, this is a very special episode because I think you guys have all heard that we love Fargo.

[35] So much.

[36] We're Fargo nerds.

[37] We think it's the best show on TV ever.

[38] Yeah.

[39] It's heartbreaking to know that there's no. Not another one in the immediate pipeline.

[40] But there will be one.

[41] Maybe.

[42] He's very busy, Noah Hawley.

[43] I think I read that there will be one.

[44] Oh, okay.

[45] Well, so we decided to do a Fargo Super episode.

[46] So today we have both Allison Tolman and Colin Hanks.

[47] It's a double whammy where we will talk about Fargo and both.

[48] And we hope you enjoy.

[49] Yeah.

[50] Also, if you find out that someone has done it for more than one of, hour and one minute in Lake Austin, just keep it to yourself.

[51] Also, if you want to pull up some pictures of Lake Austin while you're listening to this episode, great idea.

[52] Yeah.

[53] And look and stare at it for one hour and one minute and know that's how long I was trying water.

[54] Here are Colin Hanks and Allison Tolman.

[55] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[56] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[57] Or you can listen to for free, wherever you get your podcasts.

[58] Can I say some precursors here?

[59] So your wife, Sam, I met 14 years ago.

[60] Yes.

[61] Because she was working on a movie's A Thorea that I did.

[62] Yes.

[63] And I always got on with her great.

[64] She's one of my favorite people there.

[65] She's great.

[66] And then I bumped into you, I guess, at Ryan Hanson's house at Christmas party.

[67] And there was a food truck.

[68] And I think specifically, we were, waiting in line to get Friedo Pie.

[69] Sam's favorite meal.

[70] Another feather in her cap.

[71] That just shows what kind of gal she is.

[72] And I was like, oh, well, this is a match made in heaven, two super nice people that I've liked every time I've bumped into.

[73] And you got, how did you guys even find each other?

[74] We, so this is going to be very funny and maybe awkward for you.

[75] Right.

[76] But so she went to college with my best friend who I grew up with in Sacramento.

[77] Okay.

[78] And my producing partner, he's produced all the docs that I've done.

[79] And so they went to school together.

[80] So I had met her in passing a bunch, but she was sort of just like one of many, you know, USC people that I sort of met when he was going to school.

[81] Yeah.

[82] And then we sort of connected, or at least I was able to sort of go like, oh, yes, I do know you because I went in and read for Favro for Zithura.

[83] Oh.

[84] And I was shooting a movie.

[85] I have to assume for the role I was cast in because there was only five cast members.

[86] And you weren't the Tim Robbins role.

[87] I was not the Tim Robbins role.

[88] Or Kristen Stewart.

[89] I was definitely not the Chris Stewart or the Josh Hutchison.

[90] I was working in, oh geez, I was in Texas again.

[91] working on a movie and the actress in that movie was Sam's roommate.

[92] Okay.

[93] And she goes, oh, Sam works for John Favreau.

[94] And I go, who's Sam?

[95] She goes, cute, redhead, you've met her.

[96] Fiery personality.

[97] Don't know who you're talking about.

[98] And then when I flew into L .A. To meet with Favro, and one day I met Favro for Zithura and Peter Jackson for King Kong.

[99] Oh, wow.

[100] And I walked into Favreau's office and I saw Sam and it was like, yes, you're Sam.

[101] I know exactly who you are.

[102] Oh.

[103] And we sort of, we talked a little bit and we had mutual, you know, tons of mutual friends.

[104] Yeah.

[105] Here's where it gets weird.

[106] Here's where it gets a little weird.

[107] Okay, okay.

[108] So I go and have that meeting with Favs.

[109] I have a meeting with Peter Jackson and I get offers for.

[110] for both movies.

[111] No shit.

[112] And I literally have to choose.

[113] Oh my goodness.

[114] And I try my hardest to like find some way to do both.

[115] Sure.

[116] And I imagine both because I was in third.

[117] That was a six month long shoot.

[118] It was like crazy long shoot or five months.

[119] Oh.

[120] And then I have to imagine King Kong is also.

[121] That was like 10 months.

[122] Yeah.

[123] And it was insane.

[124] And so we were, I was trying, I was like, them like is there any way that we could do both and and they Zithura couldn't move dates because of Tim Robbins and he was the most important thing for that movie yes at that time and well and remains and then but then you got cast so that it worked out so they said well we can't move those because of his dates so you have to choose right and I was like stay in Los Angeles we're with John Fevere which I really want to do but is Peter Jackson and it's 10 months in New Zealand.

[125] Like, I think I kind of got to do that one.

[126] And so I said, I tried to call John.

[127] I left a message for him.

[128] He waited five days to call me back.

[129] Oh, wow.

[130] And I called Sam.

[131] I said, hey, what, what's going on?

[132] And she's just making you wait.

[133] Ah, okay.

[134] He's just hoping that you've changed your mind.

[135] Oh, okay.

[136] Which I don't know if that's true or not.

[137] Well, I will say Favro has a lot of ninja moves.

[138] He does.

[139] that I aspire to have.

[140] He's got, he, whatever the 3D, like, three -dimensional chessboard is, like, he's mastered that.

[141] He is one of the few people I can humble myself enough to call for advice.

[142] He's always who I call for advice.

[143] Like, he's got his shit pretty figured out.

[144] He's a smart, he's a smart guy.

[145] And it was like one of those things where it's like, I was so bummed because I, I mean, I love John Favreau.

[146] And he was like, he was one of the reasons why I sort of wanted to get into, Not getting into movies, but was one of the people that made me realize that...

[147] It could be done.

[148] It can be done on any level.

[149] Yes, I compare Swingers to, like, when you think you might want to be a musician and you hear punk rock.

[150] And you're like, well, fuck, man, I think I might be able to do that.

[151] I could do that, yeah.

[152] Yeah, and Swingers was very inspirational in that way.

[153] I was like, oh, this is a homemade backyard, guys got together and made this happen.

[154] So, anyways, flash forward a year or so later.

[155] So you go and do King Kong.

[156] I go do King Kong.

[157] You go do Zathura.

[158] Everybody's happy.

[159] It's all good.

[160] Right.

[161] I come back to L .A. And I see Sam in a party and all of a sudden it just clicked again.

[162] And I'm like, oh, I think I really like this person.

[163] And we started dating.

[164] And then after a year of dating, we moved to New York together.

[165] Okay.

[166] And why did you move to New York?

[167] So now, yes, thank you.

[168] We moved to New York.

[169] We moved to New York.

[170] We moved to New York because I was just sort of fried on Los Angeles and wanted a chance.

[171] I came back from New Zealand was sort of like a big like life changing kind of experience for me which just reached me. It just was at that time in my sort of lateish 20s where I'm just sort of like oh like yeah the clock is running.

[172] I got to like do shit.

[173] Yeah.

[174] Like there's no more I don't want to be like I should have done this.

[175] Sure.

[176] And when you read the script for King Kong, did you read Jack Black's line it was twos cute twos beauty twos beauty that killed the beast i prefer twos cutie when you read the line twos beauty that killed the beast did you have a moment of deep gratitude that you weren't going to have to deliver that line oh because when i saw that movie i thought i want to write jack black a love letter and just go god bless you i don't know how you did it i don't think i could say the line out loud well you know the weird thing about that because that's a carryover line from the original?

[177] It's a carryover line from the original, but what happened was is he wasn't originally going to say it.

[178] Okay.

[179] The original Faye Ray was going to say it.

[180] She was going to do, like, do a cameo at the very end.

[181] And say, twos, cutey that killed the beast.

[182] Twos cutie that killed the beast.

[183] And I, the story goes, I believe that, you know, Peter had met her and she had agreed to do it, but then she passed away.

[184] like months before that had sort of happened and so I think when I read the script it was already sort of Jack's line but he was kind of like why did she why did she stop you I've never had the chance to ask him about his whole emotional journey and knowing that that line was coming probably for 10 months oh man I mean that yeah because sometimes you just get stuck with that line where it's like it's got to be in there it was in the original and then also like with with Pete you know, it's like 20 takes sometimes, 25 takes.

[185] Okay.

[186] There's no rush.

[187] I don't ever recall being rushed on that movie.

[188] Right.

[189] Like that is the biggest budget film I've ever been on and it's like, okay, well, we're just going to do this scene for like all day long.

[190] I'm like, really?

[191] It's only two pages.

[192] You have children now.

[193] I do, yeah.

[194] Right.

[195] So that changes everything, right?

[196] Absolutely.

[197] You know, all you want as a child is to become an actor.

[198] So when you're doing the acting job, you're doing the thing you wanted to do and then all of a sudden you're like I also want to be on with my kids I gotta be home right now yeah and it gets far for me my patience has gone down pretty dramatically with inefficiency or bad game plans well and it's also to bring it back to New York I'm gonna my goal in this interview is to not hear about New York until literally our two we can make that happen like you're gonna say we moved to New York for the pizza and I'm going to go, thank you, Colin, Hanks, for coming in.

[199] It was so great to have you.

[200] Well, never answered at the very, just say, so why did you move to New York for the pizza?

[201] The city water's delicious.

[202] But there was a time when, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right.

[203] When I was younger, I would just spend so much time obsessing about work and what it meant and what kind of things that I wanted to do and, you know, all of that stuff.

[204] Because you have nothing but time and nothing but energy and nothing but anxiety.

[205] to obsess about those things.

[206] Well, and let's add to it at that moment when you're not married and don't have kids, that's the only thing you have, right?

[207] So it's like you're thinking in terms of maybe legacy or worth on this planet or, right?

[208] And then once you have kids, it becomes pretty crystal clear like, oh no, my job.

[209] Now my identity is getting this kid to the finish line.

[210] Yeah, absolutely.

[211] But so you really, at least for myself, I'm not evaluating anymore.

[212] Like, where am I at as an act?

[213] actor.

[214] Am I respected?

[215] Am I successful?

[216] Like those things that were the only thing I really had to evaluate myself.

[217] Yeah.

[218] Just took a back seat.

[219] Yeah.

[220] It ends up sort of just, yeah, you just put it in the backseat.

[221] Yeah.

[222] It's still there.

[223] Sure, sure.

[224] And it'll pop up every now and again and try and give you some backseat, you know, directions.

[225] Well, how old are you?

[226] I am 40.

[227] Oh, you're 40.

[228] Okay.

[229] And I got to say this has only happened to me in probably the last year and a half.

[230] How often does that pop up for you?

[231] Like, do you at this point you're 40 have you at all transitioned into like you know what the the main thing is is like make a living motherfucker yeah like whether or not people are going to like secretly talk about how brilliant you are yeah yeah no yeah I don't have that that is not that is nowhere near as prevalent as it was when I was when I was younger now it really is I mean shit even right now you know the TV show that I'm on.

[232] I love it.

[233] It's a great gig.

[234] What show are you on right now?

[235] It's called Life and Pieces.

[236] It's on CBS.

[237] We're about to start our fourth year.

[238] Oh, that's awesome.

[239] Um, which has been amazing because it shoots in Los Angeles.

[240] Yes.

[241] Hours are super quick.

[242] I work with amazing people.

[243] It's not multi -cam.

[244] It's not multi -cam, but we shoot so quickly with multiple cameras.

[245] Sure.

[246] That we sort of are able to keep the pace up real quick.

[247] So I can be at work at five in the morning and I am at home reading you know the kids books by seven at night right and it's perfect and I've been present in my kids lives for the last four years yeah whereas right before that yeah you know I was you know going to Canada and going to Michigan and Iowa and like all of these places to go do these things where you know maybe they're not working out or maybe they're not being uh you know as accepted as as much as I would have liked and sure you're sitting there going like Like, why am I, why am I doing this?

[248] But you're a perfect guy to talk to about this topic, really.

[249] You just kind of steered me exactly where I want to be, which is you were in Fargo.

[250] You were brilliant in Fargo.

[251] You're here as kind of a Fargo episode.

[252] I don't know if you know that or not.

[253] I was told you.

[254] You're here, we're doing a Fargo episode.

[255] Oh, really?

[256] Yeah.

[257] Oh, fantastic.

[258] Because we love that show so much.

[259] Okay, great.

[260] Yeah.

[261] Yeah.

[262] So you've had both.

[263] I went to Fargo for the hot dish.

[264] I'm sorry, that's a different question.

[265] Sorry, I'm so sorry.

[266] Yeah, I'll bring you back to New York because I don't know, the big apple.

[267] But in the last five years of your life, you had both things.

[268] So you had one that you had to go to Egypt.

[269] Where do they film that?

[270] Calgary.

[271] The point is, is you were in a tundra of frozen ice for a few months, right?

[272] And it's not super great hang for the kids and the wife, right?

[273] They didn't even come.

[274] They didn't even come.

[275] There you go.

[276] So you had an experience, which was Fargo, which am I safe to say that that's probably the most prestige you've achieved as an actor?

[277] Oh, absolutely.

[278] Yeah.

[279] Without a doubt.

[280] I remember watching and going like, so glad you're on it.

[281] Like, I'm glad that you, and I say this, like I would say it about myself, I'm so glad you got the chance to be on that show.

[282] Oh, thanks, man. And that you crushed in such a crazy way where you were like, oh, no, I'm fucking deserved to be here as much as Billy Bob Thornton.

[283] And that's awesome.

[284] Yeah.

[285] But you had both experiences and, you know, and now you've had four years of general comfort on a show.

[286] Yeah.

[287] Maybe without getting nominated.

[288] Have you been nominated?

[289] I've been nominated for Fargo, but.

[290] No, I mean for your.

[291] Oh, Life and Pieces, no, no, no. No, right.

[292] Yeah, so kind of put those on the scale for me at 40 years old.

[293] Well, so it was so fascinating because the Fargo thing in reality is such a weird fluke.

[294] And I don't mean that in that we didn't know that it was good.

[295] We knew that it was good, but we didn't know if people would buy into that.

[296] Sure.

[297] Well, right out of the gates, I think you're treading on very hollow ground, which is the Cohen Brothers, one of their best movies.

[298] Oh.

[299] How dare anyone try to make that into a TV show?

[300] And that was the first thing I said when my age was like, so we had this script for a television series of Fargo.

[301] The first thing I said is why?

[302] Right.

[303] Stop.

[304] Don't.

[305] By the way, Billy Bob, I was working with on the judge.

[306] Oh, yeah.

[307] And he left there and went directly to Calgary.

[308] Oh, did he's like, I got to go to, uh, well, he said more like this, I'm not your fucking dada.

[309] He said, I got to go to Calgary.

[310] I'm doing, I'm doing a show Fargo.

[311] And I was like, wait a minute.

[312] You're doing Fargo.

[313] And I said, that feels so weird.

[314] Yeah.

[315] Why are you doing Fargo?

[316] ago.

[317] It was confusing to me. And I remember saying like that feels like a big swing.

[318] It feels like, it felt like a super big swing.

[319] Yeah.

[320] And what was, it's like Citizen Kane the show.

[321] Yeah.

[322] And, and, and what was crazy was that, I think universally, that was everyone's initial thought.

[323] Why?

[324] And then would, and then read what that pilot, read the pilot.

[325] Yeah.

[326] And that pilot was so, different and so like I can say it now like it was so groundbreaking uh -huh but at the same time you're looking at it just going like wow I don't even know this is really really good and then the more you looked at it it it actually it actually got better and you admired it more stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare there.

[327] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[328] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[329] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[330] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

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[335] What's up guys?

[336] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, Too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[337] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[338] And I don't mean just friends.

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[341] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[342] Was the scene in the pilot with Billy Bob saying, I know where you live or something, like the interaction?

[343] Yeah.

[344] Was that in the pilot?

[345] That was in the pilot.

[346] That was in the pilot.

[347] And that was the moment for me where I went, oh, wow, this is a fucking hell of a show.

[348] Well, so.

[349] I'm going to be very sacrilegious and go, I like the show more than the movie.

[350] For me, if I got to pick one thing I got to see in my lifetime, it's definitely the show.

[351] That particular episode, I remember, you know, I went and I did the audition and read and got the part.

[352] But there was all sorts of, it wasn't really clear, like, what the season was going to be.

[353] and there was talk about okay so because normally you get a show and you sign six years of your life away yeah and you're like okay well you know hope this is right yeah yeah come on lucky number seven do you know what I mean sure um and with this they're like okay well they may do two years but they're definitely going to be one year with the option for maybe a second I was like oh okay like and I was talking with no one he says look you know what we're doing is really different and even if you just looked the structure of that, one of the first things he pointed out is a pilot episode of a television show, the very first episode.

[354] A, normally you make it, and then it's months later until you make the second episode.

[355] But with this one, it was just, we're making them all right away.

[356] And he said, normally, yeah, pretty much like a movie.

[357] And he said, look, when you do a pilot, you have, let's say you have 12 characters.

[358] You have to introduce all 12 characters within the first like 10 pages.

[359] Yes.

[360] And he said, which is the labor.

[361] part of all pilots.

[362] And it's horrible, but the Gus stuff didn't come up until page 48 at the end of the episode.

[363] And he said, so I want you to know that your character is an integral part of the series.

[364] But in that one particular episode, it's just that one scene.

[365] And I remember thinking, well, you know.

[366] And you You didn't have all the other scripts to confirm that.

[367] Didn't have any of the other scripts.

[368] And we've all been lied to by a lot of directors and producers at that point.

[369] But I remember thinking like, well, if you're only going to be in one scene, like that's a, that's a scene that you want to be in.

[370] But the nightmare part of this story is that that scene was actually shot on two different Fridays.

[371] Oh, really?

[372] We shot all of Billy Bob's side on one Friday.

[373] and then we shot the other my side the following Friday and Billy Bob wasn't there which was not at all Billy Bob's fault right he's a busy man it was not his it was like a scheduling mistake and he couldn't be in Calgary on that day so we had to shoot the day that it was scheduled to shoot the entire scene we had to shoot Billy Bob stuff yeah to get him out in time and we ended up basically just like shooting it in a car in an like in our stages they just opened up the windows so that you could see the breath and we did all of billy bob stuff and one far angle of the both of us to tie you guys together and then a week later you're saying it to a I'm saying it to well first first I said I said it to three different I said it to three different things first I said it to um his stand in who was a very sweet man, but he didn't know the dialogue.

[374] Yeah.

[375] And so he started to improv, but it sounded like Slingblade.

[376] Okay, great.

[377] And I said, okay.

[378] Munted potatoes.

[379] Yeah.

[380] And I'm like, I don't need that.

[381] Uh -huh.

[382] And I said, let's just get, let's get, you know, the script supervisor.

[383] But can I just say something about that scene in particular?

[384] If ever there were a reacting scene.

[385] Yes.

[386] So your full basic, your full responsibility in that scene is to respond.

[387] Yes.

[388] to this incredible monologue.

[389] This incredible.

[390] That's what you're going to add.

[391] That's what you'll be adding to this scene.

[392] Yes.

[393] And you kind of need that.

[394] I need that.

[395] I need that.

[396] I would almost prefer they just put a fucking monitor in the front seat and I got to listen to what he was saying.

[397] Well, at one point, the script he comes in.

[398] She reads it.

[399] She reads it very monotone.

[400] Sure.

[401] I go, also a woman.

[402] You want to know what?

[403] I said, let's just give me an X. Like literally just give me an X. and just roll and let me just like...

[404] Hear it in your head.

[405] Yeah, like no talking and I'll just sort of do that.

[406] And through the magic of editing, you'll grab little bits and moments and we'll just kind of, let's just try that.

[407] Yeah.

[408] And we ended up doing, I think, maybe two or three takes like that.

[409] Uh -huh.

[410] And then it was just like, okay, lucky number seven, like cut, print, all right, we'll move on.

[411] And that was that.

[412] You must have gone home that night a little fearful.

[413] Oh, my God.

[414] I've never, I've never been more sort of like, okay.

[415] Like, I literally didn't know.

[416] I just, I had no idea what was going on.

[417] And it was also a weird thing of like, I didn't know if that was a time where I could stand up for myself and say, guys, this is so fucked up.

[418] Why would you do this?

[419] This is my one scene, like, what the fuck?

[420] Yeah.

[421] But it's also, I'm getting to know everybody.

[422] I don't want to be that guy on the, I mean, I'm not that guy, so I don't want to, like, find myself being that guy on the first day.

[423] But there's this, there's this other thing that is important to remember.

[424] At this point, none of us still really know if this is going to work.

[425] Right.

[426] Yeah, that's true.

[427] Because there's so much, in the back of your head, you're going, I know that this script is really good, but I don't know if people are going to buy this.

[428] I don't know if people are going to get past their initial.

[429] thought of like, oh, Cohn Brothers fan fiction, no thank you.

[430] Right.

[431] And it was also shot in a very specific way.

[432] Was any of that occurring to you while you were filming it?

[433] Well, they had specific rules of things that they could not do.

[434] Okay.

[435] As set by who?

[436] As set by Noah.

[437] Okay.

[438] And really as set by the Cohn brothers.

[439] Right.

[440] Because there are certain sort of rules they established in the movie.

[441] Rules that they established.

[442] not only in their movie, but in all of their movies, that it needed to have that same patina.

[443] It needed to have that same continuity.

[444] Architecture.

[445] And so you couldn't just throw focus to something way down, you know, the corridor, because they don't do that.

[446] So, like, there were all of those little things where I'm like, well, why don't you just do that?

[447] And there's like, because we can't.

[448] And so that was that level of detail that we didn't really know about.

[449] reading it right and we didn't really know about until we started sort of filming it and we went oh okay well this is this is pretty cool yeah and then um the the moment that I would I got really excited was when they brought in the money the bag of money oh Bouchemie leaves in the movie yeah and had that direct connective tissue yeah and I went that's really cool that's That's cool.

[450] Like, I dig that.

[451] And so then it started to get a little bit more sort of engaging.

[452] I was sort of like, okay, well, this is, this is going to be kind of cool, this is going to be kind of cool.

[453] You know, for me, there was a whole other component of I was just thought that Gus was just so one note the entire series.

[454] I'm like, this is boring.

[455] Well, that's another question I want to ask you.

[456] The accent, how intimidated were you to do that?

[457] You were like, oh, that's fine, I can do that.

[458] It was only intimidating for the audition.

[459] Oh, okay.

[460] And the audition I had my opening bit that I hoped would cover my ass.

[461] I went in saying, so my accent is somewhere between Canada, eh, and Chicago down here.

[462] But if you give me the job, I'll whittle it into the middle, into Minnesota.

[463] Ah.

[464] And so I just kind of did that.

[465] And when you're there, oh, it's not.

[466] helping because you're in Calgary.

[467] So you're not hearing the act.

[468] So I'm trying not to do the Canadian accent, which I slip into super easy.

[469] Yes, I get infected by wherever I'm shooting.

[470] Yes.

[471] Like when I was in Boston and I get it, I get wherever I'm visiting.

[472] Yeah, yeah.

[473] But the reason I get it is like I'm I was in when I was working in Boston, we kept driving for like an hour to these different places.

[474] And my driver Jimmy, who had just gotten out of prison at the thickest Boston accent.

[475] And I'm just talking to him, you know, for an hour every day on the way to work and then on the way home you just pick it up and before long i'm like yeah if i come back to my fucking room and tell christian like let's get some fucking spaghetti you know and i just yeah when i when i with sam always makes fun me because when like when we travel to like uh france i'll be like on the phone with the with the with the room service or whatever and i'll say like a uh uh put a moi uh palivou franca and they'll go wait and then i'll start talking in English but with a French accent.

[476] And my wife goes what the fuck are you doing?

[477] You ask them if you could speak just speak English.

[478] You don't have to be like do you have water?

[479] Don't do that.

[480] Stop.

[481] We would like insulting.

[482] A bread I went to Italian.

[483] So like so on Fargo every morning we would get to sad.

[484] Did you stay in the accent during the day?

[485] No. No No, no, no, no. I didn't do any of that.

[486] But every morning...

[487] Everyone on the crew thanks you, by the way.

[488] Let me just for that.

[489] Every morning, I would meet with...

[490] We had this great guy named Tony.

[491] Okay.

[492] And I would meet up with him every day.

[493] And he always had headphones on.

[494] And so he was listening to everybody.

[495] And so I sort of get the primer for the day.

[496] Hear it a bunch, repeated a bunch.

[497] And he was great because I could run lines with him.

[498] Oh, that's helpful.

[499] So I could do both, which was really great.

[500] And, you know, I mean, it was just...

[501] There was so much that was just so...

[502] unknown about that how old were your kids then or did you even have them uh my second was about one and a half okay and my oldest was like three and a half yeah so you're missing some big shit yeah during that period yes right the one and a half year old starting to say words yeah becoming more agile running around probably by the time you get home and three year old it was yeah i mean that you never get used to i mean when my second daughter was born i was here i was there for the first 15 hours of her life and then i had to get on a plane and go to toronto uh -huh to go finish a movie oh and that was i mean that was a whole other thing because we weren't sure like when she was going to come uh -huh there were three days left on this movie oh boy I had not yet signed my contract oh clever which I don't know why that producer yeah I because I've never they never let you start that was crazy yeah and so you had a little leverage to the well I mean I could have yeah um and I mean if push comes to shove I like to think that I I would have just stayed no matter what yeah when I came back he's like so happy he's like I'm man I'm so relieved and I said come here here's my signed contract you should have got this on day one because if my daughter did not come this past weekend I was not going to come back yeah because I'm not missing the birth of my child for this movie right right but it all worked out and he goes yeah thank you thank you thank you I'm like all right cool all right you know a small independent movie yeah and so they're already stressed to the max just even if everything goes correctly it's stressful but in that moment I'm sitting there going like wow i just left like my newborn like i didn't get to bring her home from the hospital right yeah that's pretty rough which is rough and that is really when i started to go okay i need to i need to i need to find some balance here some boundaries basically some boundaries and i need to make sure that there's an artistic itch that is being you know scratched but there's also got to be you know you got to make bread you got to want to be home yeah and and fargo was like sort of the the proving ground of like okay this is so good this is this is worth it but when this is over i think the next one has got to be for for them for yeah do you do you ever fast forward to the deathbed and you go like oh cool i've got four trophies on a bookshelf uh And I missed first day at preschool.

[503] I missed first day at kindergarten.

[504] I missed this.

[505] I miss that.

[506] Like, do you ever do that calculus, the deathbed calculus where you're like, it's a good ego check.

[507] It's like, why the fuck do I need a praise for being good at the expense of my children's?

[508] It's that thing in the backseat that is constantly piping up every now and again.

[509] Yeah.

[510] Oh, you should be doing this.

[511] You should be doing that.

[512] And now I just go.

[513] like, yeah, I mean, that's a fleeting thing.

[514] Yeah.

[515] I know that making sure that I'm there for the music recital or the, you know, the seemingly innocuous kindergarten graduation.

[516] Yeah.

[517] It doesn't, preposterous, but.

[518] But you want to be there?

[519] You know what I mean?

[520] I would much rather be at, at those.

[521] Every one of those things, I'm like, this is so preposterous.

[522] I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I'm glad I'm not.

[523] But I go and then I'm like, this is.

[524] spectacular but I start by going I never had it no one was clapping for me when I left kindergarten or preschool or anything like you get real I didn't get you know 12th grade that's when you get your big fucking party oh yeah I mean so I'm a cynic like that but then I go and I go oh no this is correct like this is lovely everyone's happy what the fuck's wrong with this should be I guess I have this fear like oh everyone's getting soft and no one's going to run this country or something I don't know but it's one time there I do a 180 immediately it always makes me left because both of my kids in their kindergarten graduations got to wear like the hat and the tassels.

[525] None of my graduations ever did I wear one of those.

[526] So they've already got one up on me, which maybe is that's what it's supposed to be, right?

[527] You're supposed to provide stuff for your kids that you didn't get so they get the tassels.

[528] Yeah.

[529] Every graduation apparently.

[530] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[531] Now, I was surprised to learn this because as much as I've, like, known you socially for the last, I don't know, eight years or something, you and I were both hosts, or not hosts, we were judges on a cooking show, which was a surreal experience.

[532] The most surreal experience, to say the least.

[533] Ultimately fun.

[534] So much fun.

[535] And then you and I were on this preposterous contraption.

[536] We were like four stories in the air so that we could oversee all the chefs working.

[537] We were so high in the air, right?

[538] Yeah.

[539] In the stage itself, the thing we were on it moved.

[540] I think it went up or down or something.

[541] But anyways, while you were on it, it was pretty wobbly.

[542] Yeah.

[543] Which was funny.

[544] But then I learned a lot about you as a person, and I guess I assumed you had been raised in Los Angeles, but that's not even the case.

[545] You grew up in Sacramento, right?

[546] Yeah, I grew up in Sacramento.

[547] My mom and dad met in Sacramento in college.

[548] and then we eventually soon after they had me and then we moved around a little bit.

[549] We lived in New York for a bit.

[550] We lived in Los Angeles for a bit.

[551] And then when my parents split, I moved to Sacramento with my mom.

[552] What age were you then?

[553] 22.

[554] Pizza.

[555] Pizza.

[556] However old you are in third grade.

[557] So probably around eight.

[558] You're nine.

[559] Eight or nine.

[560] Oh, yeah.

[561] Depending on what your birth.

[562] depending on when your birthday is yeah um when is your birthday November 24th 1977 okay so you were probably always old for your yeah right yeah I was always yeah I was in the older group and yeah yeah because they did the opposite to my brother and it was just straight cruel oh so he graduated at 17 yeah yeah yeah that's not that's not nice it's not the direction that's not nice yeah although in this this this um this nuclear arms race of ages because now everyone holds her kids back so it used be like if you had a February birthday you were sitting good but now like your kid who's born in February is actually going to be the youngest so like are they getting like are people just going start first grade at nine years old eventually it's an arms race that is a brilliant description of it it is a fucking arms race so you were in third grade so I was in third grade and so I pretty much grew up in Sacramento but I also grew up in Los Angeles because my dad was down here okay and what was the split like what were you we were doing every other week weekend, which...

[563] Every other weekend.

[564] Okay.

[565] So we'd do every other weekend and summers down here.

[566] Did you love coming down here?

[567] Or were you like, I got to leave my friends.

[568] No, I loved it.

[569] Okay.

[570] I thought it was great.

[571] And, you know, really there was, you know, there was a, it was just a fun sort of getaway.

[572] You know what I mean?

[573] Which I really loved.

[574] And it was a bummer that I wasn't able to sort of hang with my friends in the summer and stuff like that.

[575] We, you know, I went to a summer camp down here and so it would find stuff to do.

[576] or there were summers where, you know, the old man had a job, so we're all going to Maine.

[577] Indiana for a summer or Seattle for a summer, you know, whatever.

[578] Now, so the traveling ended up becoming a big, big component of it as well.

[579] Yes.

[580] Now, we had much different fathers, but I do remember part of the excitement of going to my dad's was he was a bachelor who had disposable income.

[581] My mother did not.

[582] She was flipping the bill for three kids.

[583] Yeah.

[584] We would go there and he had a VCR, he had on TV, he ordered pizza for every meal.

[585] On TV.

[586] He had it on TV.

[587] And so my brother and I would go there and he would mostly go to the bar.

[588] Like we'd go to his house for the weekend, but he would go to the bar and we would just fucking watch VHS tapes, order food, eat drink pop, fucking eat cookies.

[589] And it was a bachnalia.

[590] Yeah.

[591] Was there a big shift in the environment when you would go from moms to dads?

[592] A little bit.

[593] For a period, but eventually, you know, lucky for him, you know, he ended up really finding the person that he was meant to be with in Rita, my stepmom.

[594] So how soon at what age?

[595] Oh, well, I mean, they had actually met years before.

[596] Okay.

[597] So, you know, she had been around, you know, pretty much, like, right around the divorce.

[598] Right.

[599] You know what's interesting?

[600] I wonder if you have this as well.

[601] I had no problem with my father remarrying.

[602] Like, he had, he married this gal Tammy.

[603] I liked her right out of the gates.

[604] Yeah.

[605] She was, like, super nice to me and she was feminine.

[606] Now, when my mom remarried, I fucking hated it.

[607] Like, there would be a new stepdad in the mix.

[608] And it was like, oh, God, there's another alpha male on the scene.

[609] And we're going to now live by his program.

[610] And I hated it.

[611] Like, I never extended the welcome mat to the dudes like I did to the mom.

[612] There's something about stepdad's that are always.

[613] Yeah, precarious.

[614] I mean, my dad and I have a game whenever we're watching football.

[615] And they cut to the head coach.

[616] We have to guess what kind of stepfather they would be.

[617] And whenever I go see Rich Eisen, it's this whole game where we go, He just shows me photos of different coaches.

[618] So what kind of stepfather is he is?

[619] He's a stepfather that just is always asking where the remote is.

[620] Right, right.

[621] Where's the remote?

[622] Did you have more than one stepfather?

[623] I didn't have any stepfather.

[624] Oh, you didn't?

[625] Your mother never remarried?

[626] No, she never remarried.

[627] Did she date dudes?

[628] Not really, no. Did she join the monastery?

[629] She didn't join.

[630] Well, she found God.

[631] Oh, she did?

[632] So that was definitely a big part of it.

[633] No, she passed away.

[634] Oh, she did?

[635] Yeah.

[636] At what age?

[637] she passed away in 2002 oh that's young yeah so she was 49 breast cancer or something lung cancer that's what my dad died of cheers cheers yeah he was 62 how old was your mom 49 oh fuck is that young and it go it's oh very quick yeah right you very yeah small cell carcinoma pretty quick yeah i mean there was a period there when it was looking pretty good um but then it it went downhill very very very quickly yeah and that was you know that was also like five months after orange county came out so it's like a lot of shit was happening like all at once and it was she was diagnosed when i was making that were you feeling guilty for having success while this bad like were you when you would be enjoying the success of having been in orange county would you go like what a piece of shit i am i should be worried about my mom no it was sort of like oh god of course this is all happening at once.

[638] That sort of just seems to be like a life thing.

[639] Where everything always happens.

[640] So you just, I just sort of went like, oh, okay, I've got to deal with this.

[641] But really what it did was it showed how unimportant ultimately the work stuff was.

[642] And the life stuff was much more important.

[643] And it kind of fucked me up in the head later on because then I'd go.

[644] back, you know, she, you know, dies and all of the stuff that is accompanied with that comes with that.

[645] I have one full sister and two half -brothers.

[646] Okay.

[647] Sorry, can I ask a really quick hold.

[648] You are?

[649] Uh, pizza.

[650] Okay.

[651] No, no. We're not there yet.

[652] I was 23, I think.

[653] 23.

[654] Okay.

[655] Yeah, that sounds about right.

[656] Okay.

[657] Um, she was 22 and she had yours?

[658] No. Yeah.

[659] That they were, yeah, my parents were young.

[660] Good for that.

[661] Very horny.

[662] Um, yeah, very protective.

[663] Um, not very protected college baby um and so i come back to la and i'm like trying to do work and it's supposed to be this great time because you know congratulations you don't have to do tv anymore it was like that era of stuff and so hear all these movies but all the movies are like teen stuff and i've just gone through this crazy experience yeah you're feeling very adult i just said no i'm not doing any of that shit and and as a result didn't work for a long time uh -huh so there was just this component of like we were talking earlier about when you're when you're single you don't have kids like I was very fortunate in that I didn't really spend a lot of money I had been on a TV show for two years I had made some movies so I'd like had more money than than a kid should have yeah but I wasn't spending it right and so I had you know I had fuck you money Right, sure.

[664] Which was, you know, why don't you go do this, you know, Tad Hamilton movie?

[665] Nah, I don't want to do that.

[666] Uh -huh.

[667] Oh, you got some fuck you money?

[668] Yeah, I do.

[669] Okay, well, all right.

[670] Yeah.

[671] Well, you're probably only hurting your career.

[672] But that's fine.

[673] Do you think the fact that you didn't go out and blow a bunch of your money at 23 is because you grew up with money?

[674] Because I fetishized money so much.

[675] Yeah.

[676] That I would have had to have driven a Corvette.

[677] 23 if I could have afforded one.

[678] You know, I don't, yes and no. I mean, the reality is, is that what we definitely grew up with money for sure, but it's not that the, it's nowhere near the amount of money people would assume.

[679] Right, right.

[680] But regardless.

[681] Yeah, I'm picturing Silver Spoons, just so you know, in my head, like I think you had a train in your living room.

[682] And look, and the stocking was like six feet tall.

[683] Only at Christmas time.

[684] Only at Christmas time would the train come out.

[685] And that was just a small one.

[686] You couldn't ride it.

[687] I don't even know if I want to know that it wasn't bad because it's so fun when I think about you on your train.

[688] But the thing is, is that, and you, I mean, I think there might be a similar thing in your experience being a child of divorce.

[689] You know, I don't know how much money that my mom was getting in alimony.

[690] Yeah.

[691] But what I heard all the time was, is we don't have the money.

[692] Yes, sure.

[693] we don't have money for that right your dad has that we don't have that yeah yeah and so it was never like money is no object it was money is is is the biggest object the biggest object and and so things were incredibly special uh -huh and and and and trips were incredibly special and uh -huh and so i don't know i i also didn't because i didn't grow up in the sort of post, there's a very definitive line, I think, in my father's career, where things just become stratospheric and very different.

[694] Is that big?

[695] No, it's more like Forrest Gump era.

[696] Oh, right, right, right, right.

[697] And my experience growing up was all prior to that.

[698] Yes, yes.

[699] I have this with my sister, by the way.

[700] My mother didn't make much money.

[701] We barely got by.

[702] Then she started this business.

[703] And when I left the house, the business became very successful.

[704] And she went to like the nicest private school in Michigan.

[705] It's literally the same thing.

[706] Yeah, okay, right.

[707] It really is because it's just a, all that I sort of knew.

[708] And what my experience was like growing up, that ceased to exist for my siblings.

[709] Because it became a different kind of existence for them.

[710] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[711] And so, you know, for me, I just have a totally different, you know, a topographical map of my, you know, young life that has sort of made me, sort of the, given me the view that I have now.

[712] Right.

[713] Which, you know.

[714] Which I would assume you're ultimately grateful for?

[715] Oh, very much so.

[716] Yeah.

[717] Very much so.

[718] Because it's sort of, it's, it's the grounding thing in the circus.

[719] Well, you have a hunger.

[720] Like, you can be the greatest actor on Planet Earth.

[721] You can be Marlon Brando, but if you are not starving, if you're not hungry for that, you just can't really do it.

[722] Yeah, absolutely.

[723] Like, you gotta have a fire in you.

[724] And I like having, I like having a very, very different life than people assume that I have.

[725] Yeah, sure, sure.

[726] And I like having, you know, a large majority of that, you know, really like unknown.

[727] Yeah, yeah.

[728] because there's so many people that just go like, oh, I know everything there is to know about that dude.

[729] Yes.

[730] And I'm like, well, no. Yeah, well, that is the part, though, that I would imagine were very much different on, which is like, to me, because I had no one degree separation of celebrity, it still was the fantasy in my head up until 30 years old that if I had achieved that or attain that, I wouldn't really have to brush my teeth anymore or work out or watch what I eat it.

[731] Like, I would just enter this other realm of existence.

[732] The later brand.

[733] Yes, yes.

[734] Where America loved me. And then everything's kind of solved.

[735] And I do wonder if you're having such a firsthand account of it and being, your father is probably more human to you than anyone else going like, I don't know, there's a dude who still's got a fucking, like, hem and hove or whether he eats too much mashed potatoes or whatever the fucking thing is.

[736] Just the human foibles, they don't go away.

[737] No, they don't.

[738] And, you know, it, you know, I, I. can look at pretty much any person and any big celebrity and the allure is not the same.

[739] The vales pulled back for you.

[740] But, you know, there are still some that there's a hint of it and you're like, oh, that's good.

[741] I would guess for you is still musicians.

[742] Yeah.

[743] You're right?

[744] It's musicians.

[745] Yeah, you still have like a fantasy that they do.

[746] Yeah.

[747] They leave stage and then they take an elevator up to a cloud and they party up there.

[748] But what's so funny is like even the musicians that I've gotten to know, we find so many parallels in our lives that it's it's it's almost the exact same thing man yeah you know you're everyone is basically just trying to figure shit out yeah and some people have it figured out a little bit better than others and I was very fortunate in that there was an example for me as to not the right way right but a right way of doing things and and a way to maybe stay a little bit more on the track than other people do.

[749] Do you know what I mean?

[750] Well, look, I've met a bunch of my idols and your father being one of them.

[751] Like, I'll never forget when I met him.

[752] It was like at a valet line waiting to leave Century City some night before TV thing, right?

[753] And he came up to me and he's like, oh my God, I heard a story.

[754] I heard you tell this story.

[755] Like he knew that I told a story, which blew my fucking.

[756] mine.

[757] First, I was like, how does he even know who I am?

[758] Then he knows I have this story, and then he wanted me to tell it.

[759] And I told, oh, I know exactly what it was, because I had worked with your stepmom, Rita, on old dogs.

[760] Oh, yes.

[761] And I think I told the story in a makeup trailer that somehow made it to him, and then he wanted to hear it firsthand.

[762] And just the overall experience was one of the rarest I've had because he lived up to everything I'd hoped he would be.

[763] In general, it doesn't go that way.

[764] No, it does.

[765] When you meet your heroes.

[766] And And he really did.

[767] So I will just say he is kind of a shining example of, like, to your point, he seems to have navigated about as good as one can navigate the whole thing.

[768] Well, and that is, I feel like, especially now that I've been doing this for as long as I have, and thankfully my window hasn't closed yet, so I'm still able to do it.

[769] We'll still be able to judge those cooking shows for a little while longer.

[770] At least we got those.

[771] So, but I've also been around and seeing people that I came up with reach, you know, super crazy levels.

[772] Yeah.

[773] And I know kind of what that experience is like for them.

[774] I've watched it too.

[775] And they're able to like go, oh, oh, I can talk with you about this because you sort of understand.

[776] I go, yeah, yeah.

[777] Yeah.

[778] And that is.

[779] It's a very isolating thing.

[780] I don't think people recognize how.

[781] how isolating it is.

[782] It's incredibly isolated.

[783] Yeah.

[784] And it is, it is, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is a good way, in a bad way and all sorts of, and I find myself, it, because I have a friend in particular who has become, like, one of the biggest stars in the world.

[785] And I've just, yeah, watch that whole ride and just thought, I, I, I, I, I, I do sympathize a ton.

[786] Yeah.

[787] And it's almost like, oh, that is actually not what I wanted.

[788] So that's comforting to me. And then you have your kids and you go, oh, okay, I would much rather do this.

[789] But what you have accomplished is miraculous.

[790] I feel like what I've accomplished is miraculous because I left this little town in Michigan and I came out here and it's very hard to end up employed in this business.

[791] And I feel a tremendous amount of pride about that.

[792] And it is in my family a huge accomplishment.

[793] Is there any resentment for you that you have accomplished so much, but by comparison, it kind of, like, it takes this tremendous accomplishment and it's just unfortunately being measured against this other stratospheric once in a generation accomplishment.

[794] It is, it can be, it can feel like you're just banging your head against the wall.

[795] Yeah.

[796] I don't know if it bothers you, but for me, I feel like this sense of deep sorrow for you.

[797] you that you maybe couldn't recognize what a gigantic accomplishment you've achieved like i i don't want you robbed of that yeah no well thank you i mean like you were the lead of orange county at 21 or two years old and you crushed it like that is that is a one in 10 million proposition the your better half should always be able to put things in perspective for you yeah my wife has been incredible at being able to put things in perspective for me. Oh, that's good.

[798] She's your cheerleader.

[799] Yeah, to sort of help me. And it's funny because when I was younger, I was always really fancied myself like a super positive guy, you know.

[800] And then, you know, I met her and she was, yeah, I'm a positive guy.

[801] She goes, you're not a positive guy.

[802] You're incredibly negative.

[803] Some, you know, about certain things.

[804] You know, sometimes I have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees.

[805] But there is, you know, there's there's like stages of it you know what I mean when I was starting off I was just sort of just lovingly naive and didn't think it was as big a deal as it was but do you think you were telling yourself that as a mantra or you did believe it on a cellular level I think I was just simply unaware oh okay you know what I mean like you're in your own little the way eccentric 20 year old in a strange way and this is literally something that I'm thinking about for the first time so it's probably wrong but in a strange way it is kind of like when you're the big fish in a small pond and you're like oh I'm the shit I'm going to go to this town and you know yeah awesome and then you go there and it's not like that yes you know what I mean like that's kind of like what it was and not because I thought I was the shit not that I thought that I was this amazing actor yeah but I just thought it wasn't that big of a deal right right and I thought that people would just be that I would get the benefit of the doubt of like oh no he's his own person yes and he's great and and and man i'm so glad i gave him the time yeah so that i could learn that well it's such a double -edged sword because right out of the gates that doesn't happen i'm well anne i'm aware of you for one thing yeah and then and then escaping that is hard so it's like it's like the brad pitt would always say like his issue was he's so good -looking and he's like that is the foot in the door yeah but then also conversely once you're in the door all you're thinking is that oh everyone just thinks i'm here because i'm good looking so it's very tricky for him to or that you're only good looking and you must be dumb yes yes and so all of those whatever those versions are for like the son of or daughter of is that's all there well i have a particular interest in this because i'm raising two girls yeah and one of them i don't think i'll be able to keep her out of show business like it's going to be that and so i'm i'm trying to be very aware of all that.

[806] And I'm trying to, like I had Ritter on recently.

[807] And do you know, Jason?

[808] Yeah.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Loveliest guy on the planet.

[811] Sweet guy.

[812] And I genuinely wanted his like, what did John do right?

[813] What did he do wrong?

[814] Because I want to do right.

[815] And there's no roadmap.

[816] It's not like I have buddies.

[817] Like, hey, man, your wife's famous as fuck.

[818] Your wife's a Disney princess.

[819] So what do you guys doing.

[820] Hey, your wife's America sweetheart?

[821] Let me ask you a question.

[822] Yeah.

[823] I mean, I could literally only call, like, I don't know, John Krasinski or something.

[824] I don't even know who to call.

[825] So it's, you know, it doesn't open itself up to a lot of outside.

[826] You could call John.

[827] Hey, your wife's Mary Poppins.

[828] Let me ask you a question.

[829] Yeah, right.

[830] So you're married to Mary Poppins.

[831] I'm married to Princess Anna.

[832] What the fuck are we do with these kids?

[833] Like, how are we going to prevent them from being assholes?

[834] Yeah, I mean, that Oh, man, that is a, that is a, that's a pizza that we'll answer later because I, yeah, I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, I, I can't believe I'm even in the situation to have to contemplate that, you know, it's very, it's very surreal and it's very hard and, and, and I don't know.

[835] Luckily, you can't me just add, Jason is third generation.

[836] That's right.

[837] So his grandpa would text something is like in the country Western Hall of Fame.

[838] So at least his dad had some experience being places where dad's getting a ton of attention and people are asking for autographs and where do I fit in.

[839] So I think he was great about that because he had some experience.

[840] I remember having a very funny moment because like I know a lot of, you know a lot of, you know, second generation, you know, people that have become, that have had success on their own.

[841] Yeah.

[842] you know, um, but I'm not like super best friends with a bunch.

[843] Right.

[844] And, and it feels like a fun support group could be.

[845] Well, it's just weird thing because you, you technically, you, you know you have something in common.

[846] But you don't really like talk about it too much or maybe that person talks about it way too much.

[847] But I remember having this funny moment with, with Jason where, um, we were, we were at a, uh, we would, Sometimes we would both do this thing, the thrilling adventure hour, where we'd do guest and a voice on this, this, like, radio show performance at Largo.

[848] Uh -huh.

[849] And we were sitting down at some table and we were all signing the posters for that night show.

[850] And some woman, we were sitting next to each other.

[851] And someone came up to us and basically, like, to both of us just said, we love your dads.

[852] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[853] And basically was just like, I don't know why you're here.

[854] Yes.

[855] But your dads are great.

[856] By the way, I get the same thing with people telling me how much they love Kristen.

[857] Like, they'll tell me how much they love Kristen for seven or eight minutes.

[858] And I'm like, and then I just kind of run out of ways to agree.

[859] I'm like, I know.

[860] She's the greatest.

[861] And that's why I married her.

[862] Yeah, I got her.

[863] And then I'm like, I'm like, at a certain point, I'm so sorry she's not here for you to tell her.

[864] Yeah.

[865] Well, and in fact, when we were on that precariously tall stage, I made a joke and I wasn't sure how you were going to take it.

[866] But when I, there was a moment where I thought the stage we were on was going to come crashing down and we were going to die.

[867] Yeah.

[868] And I said, I almost wish we'd be alive to read the headline.

[869] Kristen Bell's husband and Tom Hanks' son die and tragic stage collapse.

[870] And as I said that joke, there was this moment for me of panic like, oh, is this going to be something he laughs at?

[871] Is this okay?

[872] Yeah.

[873] And then I was just really relieved when you laughed hard about it because there we were in the same boat that invariably someone else's name would be brought into our obituary.

[874] Well, that's like when you're sitting on a plane and all of a sudden someone much more famous gets on the plane and you go, oh, Brad Pitt and others die in bearish and play.

[875] Yeah.

[876] Yeah.

[877] But like we have this the lady said this thing and it was so funny because we didn't, we didn't need to say anything.

[878] Right, right.

[879] Right.

[880] And we both just looked at each other and he went, eh.

[881] All right, who's next?

[882] Yeah.

[883] And that was sort of it.

[884] And then ironically, you two are two of my favorite actors of my my generation oh really uh well 100 % he's so good he's so special he really is special yeah he has like uh he has the magic pixie dust he really does and you know and you know you just you find ways to you find ways to to to communicate with with certain people in a way that is a little bit distance and then you find other ways to be able to talk with other people and it's okay to bond you know yeah yeah like you know whenever some Someone just comes up and goes, oh, man, you just look and sound so much like him.

[885] And I just say, that's not true.

[886] I'm younger and I am much better looking.

[887] And then I walk away.

[888] Because there's nothing.

[889] Right.

[890] That's as far of, that's as much of that conversation as I want to have.

[891] But I think that's a really good exit line because you deliver a good joke in your, in your amiable.

[892] Yeah.

[893] And then that, and then they basically have a punchline.

[894] They can repeat.

[895] And then he said, there was only one lady that said, Oh, but you have the ego.

[896] I burst out laughing.

[897] Good for her.

[898] That's true.

[899] Oh, that's correct.

[900] I'll let you have that one.

[901] The one upside, I've said this on here a million times.

[902] So when you're on the outside and you're fantasizing about Hollywood again, you go, like, for me, the first two stops were rich and famous.

[903] Like those two things were going to cure all things.

[904] Yeah.

[905] And then the thing that I didn't anticipate, which is the true magic thing.

[906] I wish that everyone could experience is you get to be around people that are quite special in that they've dedicated their life to this thing.

[907] They've risen to the top of their profession and you get to co -mingle with them.

[908] And to me, that is the thing that's like very enviable.

[909] The thing I feel immense gratitude for.

[910] So I have to imagine growing up around like Martin Short, right?

[911] He was around a lot.

[912] Yes, he was.

[913] He is hands down the funniest human being in real life.

[914] And one of the most delightful human beings you'll ever find.

[915] Yes, I had the very rare opportunity to, like, be at his house up in Canada in Muscoca.

[916] Oh, yeah.

[917] Play ping pong with him and stuff.

[918] And I was just like, talk about an over -deliver as a person.

[919] Like, as a kid, I used to spike my hair up at top and do the triangle.

[920] Yes.

[921] I did the Ed Grimley.

[922] Yeah, Ed Grimley.

[923] Yeah, I have videos of me being Ed Grimley.

[924] And then I was playing ping pong with him.

[925] I'm like, even better in real life.

[926] Yeah.

[927] Yeah, much better.

[928] but that doesn't not everybody's like that for sure not everybody is like that and i and i think the thing that is most fascinating and has become more fascinating for me as i've gotten older is having finding out who the people are that can that have the right perspective on things yeah and realize that it's an it's an it's an incredible amount of hard work and dedication and drive and passion and humility and a little bit of ego and all of these things but there's also this in incredible sense of just like luck and timing oh fuck yeah and the thing like I don't really like the only time that I talk shop with people it's really like hey how old were you when you got that job or this or how old were you when you released that record like how did you how did that happen yeah and all of those conversations i always find to be so fascinating because those are generally depressing for me because always the answer ends up being they were much younger than me and i and it just confirms my notion that i'll never get to do some thing i want Well, there is that component to it, which I, that's like the scar that I just love picking.

[929] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[930] I'll just, wow, I was 23 and I wasn't like that.

[931] I'm just never going to get that again.

[932] But there is.

[933] Like Donald Glover.

[934] I watched this guy and I'm like, oh, awesome.

[935] You're like, you're just working on every single level perfectly at that age.

[936] Yes.

[937] Cool.

[938] Wow.

[939] That must have been great.

[940] I mean, I would love to have written on 30 Rock just that.

[941] Yes.

[942] Yes.

[943] But like there's a component of that that I find really interesting, you know, if I'm attracted to this idea of I love running away and joining the circus, but yet still wanting to have a little bit of a punch clock mentality in my personal life.

[944] But I'm also driven by like trying to find that thing that's next and trying to evolve things and look at things much, much differently than people.

[945] would necessarily assume you know what I mean well and when other people when I find other people that are that are also like that yeah that's exciting because then you actually feel like you're really learning from from that other person yeah and it just so happens that maybe that other person is like a marty short or somebody like that right and now when you've endeavored to create things out of nothing on your own they have thus far been documentaries yeah and why is it that that called you So you did Tower Records.

[946] I did it.

[947] Yeah, all things was past, the Tower Records doc.

[948] And then you did a one about the Eagles of Death Medal.

[949] Yes, which I haven't seen, which I'm dying to say.

[950] I'll get you.

[951] Yeah, I would love that.

[952] Send me like a link with a password.

[953] I'll send you the password.

[954] I'll send you my AOL password.

[955] Don't worry.

[956] Yeah, so like basically what had happened was I was in New York.

[957] We're not there.

[958] We're getting really close.

[959] We're getting so close.

[960] But I was in New York, and a lot of the people that I was friends with were already sort of partnered up for, were already writing, had writing partners.

[961] And this was around the time where it was just so painfully obvious that if you want to actually make something, you have to create it.

[962] and everyone that I sort of knew had gone on to incredible careers writing their own stuff starring in it casting a future America's sweetheart or America's new best friend McLevin and become you know these huge movie stars and all that sort of stuff and but all my friends had already had partners and I can't write by myself right right I don't have like severe like ADD like I can't stand still and like focus yeah don't give me a to do list because I'll like to do one right of that and so I wanted to do something creative but I just didn't know what it was and I had heard about tower closing and I'm from Sacramento and towers from Sacramento and I found out about Russ Solomon and what his sort of history was and I was Like, that sounds like a documentary.

[963] Mm -hmm.

[964] For whatever reason, I had been watching a lot of documentaries at that time.

[965] Mm -hmm.

[966] And for me, there's this thing of if you can actually get the story from the real people, isn't that so much better?

[967] I'm a big junkie myself.

[968] I think I prefer them at this point, too, narrative.

[969] Yet I have no idea how they're made, really, because I've not been on a set.

[970] Neither did I. Yeah, so it would be intimidating.

[971] Neither did I. And it gave me something, A, to like research.

[972] It gave me things to watch, to read.

[973] It was something that I could just talk to people.

[974] And on the surface, it's cheap compared to a movie, right?

[975] At least you're telling yourself that when you get into it.

[976] But really what I'm doing is I'm not sitting down and writing it.

[977] Which is really, I think, what it was.

[978] Right.

[979] I knew that I couldn't just sit down and write.

[980] I wasn't, you know, ready to sit down.

[981] Although ironically, there is.

[982] is a tremendous amount of writing in a documentary, which you probably found out later.

[983] Found out, yeah, found out the hard way.

[984] Yeah, much later on.

[985] Yeah.

[986] And so that, the tower thing, I mean, that took seven years.

[987] That was a very long process because, you know, all sorts of factors into why that sort of took so long.

[988] But as we were making that, we were also making little short documentaries for like KCRW, the radio station here in Los Angeles, and we did some 30 for 30 short.

[989] and some other stuff.

[990] So we had sort of got the sort of machine up and running.

[991] Right.

[992] And then I came back from Fargo and said, okay, we have to fucking finish this thing.

[993] Like, we have to finish this.

[994] Yeah.

[995] And, you know, before I knew it, like, it was like a real thing.

[996] Right.

[997] Which was a legitimate movie.

[998] And we made all of our money back.

[999] So that's a success.

[1000] Nearly impossible, yeah.

[1001] So you're allowed to go make another.

[1002] one and it's a little bit easier.

[1003] Still super fucking hard.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] So, docs have just been this thing that has been so beneficial and changed my life completely.

[1006] Don't you think that you're maybe a little drawn to it being an antidote to Hollywood in the way that you were drawn to New Zealand being an antidote?

[1007] Yeah, that's fair.

[1008] It's like almost a journalistic movie, right?

[1009] It has this kind of...

[1010] Well, there's no glory.

[1011] Right.

[1012] Right, right.

[1013] Unless you're Michael Moore.

[1014] There's like a single...

[1015] There's no glory in it.

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] And, you know, I really, they were just done because I...

[1018] Love the topic.