Ashton Kutcher

[0] Hello, and welcome to the armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dack Shepard.

[2] Today I get a chance to thank the person who started my career, Ashton Coucher.

[3] We've known each other for about 15 years now, and I can say he has been endlessly generous to me over that time.

[4] And it was really, really nice to thank him face to face.

[5] But in retrospect, if I'm being dead honest, after he left, it occurred to me, I stopped short of what I should have really said.

[6] As you will hear shortly, Punkt was the biggest break of my professional life, and I've never been so excited to get a job.

[7] It was very successful, and I should have felt nothing but gratitude for that experience, but, as happens with me, my ego complicated and tainted that experience almost immediately.

[8] And I was able to admit that to him during the conversation, but I realized after he left that I really owed him an apology for that.

[9] I can only assume that as I was trying to distance myself from the show, it must have felt like I was also trying to distance myself from him, which is terrible because he could not have possibly been more supportive or quicker to share credit with me. He was a mentor and an ally, and I deeply regret if it ever felt like I was trying to distance myself from him.

[10] I should have said that to him.

[11] Maybe I still will.

[12] But at any rate, I really enjoyed combing through our shared history together, and I applaud his candor and humility.

[13] Please enjoy my old friend, Star of the Ranch on Netflix, Ashton Coochard.

[14] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[15] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[16] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[17] Ashton, thank you so much for coming and doing my podcast.

[18] Thank you for heavy.

[19] But one of many generous things you've done for me. I actually feel like it's completely the other way.

[20] Oh, you do?

[21] Yeah.

[22] Oh, great.

[23] I can't wait to hear because I got excited to publicly thank you because I don't know that you recognize just how fucking long I had been auditioning for tampon commercials and this and that when I got punked.

[24] I mean, I was almost 10 years in L .A. trying to make a paycheck acting.

[25] It just wasn't happening.

[26] And then I got punked and I've worked mostly ever since.

[27] And I think clearly I was getting close to the end.

[28] I think there were a lot of casting people that didn't weren't recognizing your brilliance because it was fairly obvious to me from like from from moment one.

[29] And and I also think that like I think the fact that.

[30] punked was pure improv, I think like played into every one of your sort of innate skill sets from the get -go.

[31] Well, 100%.

[32] I remember driving to the audition in Santa Monica, and I live very close.

[33] And I remember driving there thinking, okay, you've auditioned for a lot of things now over the last nine years.

[34] You've not gotten any of them.

[35] If you can't get this show where really the prerequisite skill set is, A, you can improv, and B, you're not afraid if shit goes sideways.

[36] Like if someone punched you, you're open to that.

[37] And I thought, if I can't get a job that that's the two skill sets, I really, I got to give up because that is, that was the, the recipe I had going at that moment in life.

[38] Well, you had all of your groundlings training relative to improv and that was clear from like get go one.

[39] and two you had there nobody was as fearless as you on that show and you know from i think every single season that we cast after we you were basically burnt from being able to do more because when you showed up people thought it was going down yeah and even in real life but i think every single season that we had from that point on we were like all right we have to find our dacks we have to find our dacks every single casting session that we did um Because that fearlessness got like drove all the goal and and the fact that like as it was really the first time I was, you know, somewhat directing.

[40] I was kind of co -directing it.

[41] But I knew as long as you were on the floor that we could recover anything that went sideways and that we could push it further than we push it with other people because of A of your fearlessness, but also because you had the ability to continue.

[42] to escalate, but then defuse and then escalate again and then defuse in a way that few people after you or before you do.

[43] Well, another thing, just childhood training being a middle child, I grew up with a, my brother was a teenager and he was insane.

[44] And then my sister was a baby and she was cuckoo.

[45] So I think like it was the perfect thing for me to land in.

[46] But I don't know that you'll ever really understand my experience of going in there, auditioning, meeting you, going to do the pilot.

[47] Again, nine years of trying, nothing.

[48] And then we finished shooting the pilot in Las Vegas.

[49] You take me to Endeavor.

[50] At that time, I don't know if you remember this, but my agent was so low end that she went out of business while we were shooting the pilot.

[51] So the check, when it got sent, it got sent to a boarded up building in Venice.

[52] And I never even got paid because my agent had gone out of business.

[53] But you took me to Endeavor.

[54] And you basically told Greg Siegel, who was, our agent for years you've got to sign this guy right now and then you took me to a lakers game and you introduced me to carcy marcy carsey was at the lakers game like i remember all this stuff so vividly because i was living in a one -bedroom apartment in santa monica and all of a sudden i was at the lakers game with you and it was terribly exciting i have to tell you i was very very It was a very romantic, I was starstruck, it was exciting.

[55] I remember the agency piece.

[56] I remember going into the agency and being quite certain that you had.

[57] They needed me on the team.

[58] No, that, but also that you had a lot of upward potential and that with the right representation, you would get that.

[59] And I don't remember the Lakers game.

[60] Okay, sure.

[61] Why would you?

[62] I'm sure.

[63] You went all the time.

[64] I'm sure it was really fun.

[65] That was my, well, they had those endeavors.

[66] Did we sit in the court side endeavors?

[67] We didn't.

[68] Those are incredible.

[69] I have sat at though.

[70] Those are power seats.

[71] I think I told you maybe the highlight of my life was I was sitting, we were sitting there and then the agent who took me let me actually sit.

[72] Because these seats start right where the Lakers bench ends.

[73] You can actually talk to the players and taunt them.

[74] And there was a moment where I felt like I am on this team.

[75] They may tell me to get in there and play deep.

[76] And there was the moment I just couldn't believe happened was Kobe had like, he called a timeout and then he came back to the bench and he was like yelling at guys telling Derek Fitch, you got to get a demon.

[77] You got blah, blah, blah.

[78] And then he just looks at me and he goes, oh damn, you a funny motherfucker.

[79] And then gave me one of those tap, tap hugs.

[80] Yes.

[81] And like he then went back to yelling at everyone.

[82] I looked at Siegel and I'm like, I'm a fucking Laker.

[83] I'm on the Los Angeles Lakers.

[84] You're a legend.

[85] It was incredible.

[86] I got in a fight with.

[87] with Gary Payton in the middle of a game once.

[88] Really?

[89] When he was playing for the Seattle Supersonics and they were playing and I was heckling him so hard from those seeds.

[90] The glove.

[91] And he turned and he just looks at me and he's just like, eat your fucking hot dog.

[92] Oh, really?

[93] Oh, that's great.

[94] Yeah, he, I got in his head.

[95] And Sean, it was Peyton and Sean Kemp was his right hand man. I think it was post Kemp.

[96] Oh.

[97] Because I wouldn't want Kemp.

[98] I don't think I would mess with Kemp.

[99] No, the glove I'd be like, all right.

[100] I'm not going to die in this fight.

[101] I'm not saying I'm going to win, but I'm not going to die.

[102] But camp, I'd be nervous I'd go down.

[103] Those were some good seats.

[104] Yeah, but you took me to the game, and I think it's also relevant to say that at that time in my life, I had this weird version of sobriety, if you remember, where I didn't drink because I had recognized I had a drinking problem, but I still did drugs.

[105] You remember that?

[106] I don't think I knew.

[107] Because I remember you and I were standing in line at the Lakers game.

[108] I think I knew that you were taking some Vicodin.

[109] Sure, sure.

[110] But recreational, I don't think.

[111] So I was so.

[112] You're weirdly naive about drugs, which is probably why you're still here.

[113] I'm super naive about, when I got to Los Angeles, I, so when I was in high school and college, I smoked weed some and did some mushrooms and tried acid and did some various things that were, you know, expansive for me at the time.

[114] Sure, sure.

[115] But when I got, spiritually.

[116] Well, I got put in jail.

[117] when I was 18 and then I was on probation and you broke into your high school I broke into my high school and I had a third degree burglary charges that I got deferred judgment on and then got them dropped right oh you did yeah so I can still buy firearms and vote which is nice okay great and run for office if I'm sure if I ever did someone would bring that up sure I was not well that's why you're getting out ahead of it right now that's right just lay it out there I always thought Colin Farrell was the master of that like other people would be getting busted in the trades because, like, they got caught with weed or whatever.

[118] And I remember reading a Playboy interview with him.

[119] And they said, do you do drugs?

[120] And he goes, oh, yeah, this weekend I did ecstasy and cocaine, blah, blah, blah.

[121] I was like, oh, my God, that's what you do.

[122] You just say, I do everything.

[123] And then there's no story.

[124] So I did a ton of that fun stuff when I was young.

[125] And then when I went, when I was on probation, I went to college, I was like, I'm done.

[126] Like, I'm done, done, done.

[127] And I think, like, I smoked weed one time while I was in college.

[128] And then after I dropped out and moved to Los Angeles, Danny Masterson on my, show was very anti -drugs very anti -drugs like all Scientologists that I know are like super super anti -drugs and so pro cigarettes and booze but anti yes yes and so he's big his big thing to the whole cast on 70 she was like kind of my mentor when I got my big brother when I got here because he had done a ton of stuff right like he had been acting since he was a kid right so and he was like nobody on this set is doing drugs that right that's it like that and if you were at a party and someone was there to, they even kicked them out.

[129] He was that vigilant about it.

[130] Yes.

[131] And I was like, well, because I believe, too, is, is the, the theory behind it, as I understand it, is from the Scientology perspective, is people on drugs make your environment dangerous, right?

[132] Yes.

[133] Okay, so I can understand the logic.

[134] And there are certain drugs that are stored in your fat cells, which then ultimately long term have, you know, facts of it.

[135] I don't know.

[136] Who cares?

[137] Yeah, I don't know if it's all.

[138] We're not here to say whether that's true.

[139] or not.

[140] Right.

[141] There's some bending aback.

[142] Suffice to say your mentor took a hard line on drugs.

[143] And so I didn't do drugs.

[144] I drank like a fish.

[145] Can I tell you really one funny thing?

[146] Because during this whole period where you were taking me under your wing and introducing me to your friendship circle, I ended up in a car one night with Danny.

[147] And we were driving and he goes, you don't drink, huh?

[148] And I go, no, no, I don't drink, but I do drugs.

[149] And then he said, he gave me quite a long -winded, uh, lecture about it.

[150] But he was also driving the car hammered.

[151] I think the statute of limitations this was 15 years ago.

[152] I think I can say this now.

[153] He was hammered driving the car and I thought a little ironic.

[154] Yeah, it's great.

[155] Any which way.

[156] Yeah.

[157] So I had entered into a pretty long run of sobriety from drugs.

[158] And I didn't really drink that much.

[159] Like if we went out on the weekends or something I would drink.

[160] But like during like I was kind of had like a school.

[161] night rule.

[162] Like if I had work the next day, I wasn't really gonna.

[163] And I bent it a couple times here and there.

[164] But for the most part, I really had like a relatively sober living going and so therefore I was kind of blunt.

[165] Like I, like somebody could be, you know, on below like in front.

[166] I wouldn't know.

[167] Yeah, you didn't know the signs to look for.

[168] Right.

[169] I, I wouldn't know a drug addict.

[170] You're the, to me, you're, you and my friend Nate Tuck are the most frustrating type of drinker because I'm not actually jealous of the guy who drinks one drink.

[171] I don't want to be that guy who gives a fuck about having one drink.

[172] But you...

[173] What's one drink doing for it?

[174] Why even do it?

[175] Why even do it?

[176] That would just make me agitated.

[177] And Nate's the same way.

[178] So you have this relationship with booze where you can get fucked up.

[179] You'll go for it.

[180] And then it's just not a problem.

[181] Yeah.

[182] It's so great.

[183] Like you certainly partied.

[184] Yeah, sure.

[185] But you could turn it off and then you wouldn't do it for five days.

[186] and I even think about it and from my perspective.

[187] I also have a relatively high tolerance for alcohol.

[188] So I can have three, four drinks and not.

[189] And get on a motorcycle and just put some road behind you.

[190] I probably wouldn't do that.

[191] But I can have three or four drinks and not have any sort of outward signs of belligerence.

[192] Of belligerence.

[193] Yes.

[194] I've never seen you hammered.

[195] And we've certainly drank.

[196] I've gotten hammered.

[197] But then I do like silly things.

[198] Like I'm doing sober January right now where I'm just not going to drink because I'm like, I just sort of just want to clear out the system.

[199] Sure.

[200] Also, you know, you want to reset the tolerance so that you don't have to drink so much.

[201] Yes, yes.

[202] It's good to reset.

[203] So I'm doing, I'm currently on day two of sober January.

[204] So I'm on day.

[205] No, you're on day three, I think.

[206] Or did you drink on New Year's Day?

[207] Well, New Year's day, I, Mila's father, my, Mila's whole family is very Russian, right?

[208] And so when you do New Year's with them, if you're not drink, if I don't drink with her father on New Year's, it would be like disrespectful to him.

[209] Absolutely.

[210] Yeah.

[211] So I did three shots of Armenian brandy.

[212] Really?

[213] Not vodka.

[214] None of they shoot cognac or brandy.

[215] Okay.

[216] Uh, or vodka.

[217] Okay.

[218] But at big celebrations, it goes cognac.

[219] And so I did three shots of cognac at dinner on, on the first.

[220] But so I'm So you're day two.

[221] I'm day two.

[222] Yeah, I'm current, I'm day three right now.

[223] No Diet Coke.

[224] Back off that.

[225] Nice.

[226] No dip.

[227] I had a small foray into dipping this year.

[228] It happens.

[229] After eight years off.

[230] It happens.

[231] And what's another one?

[232] I'm off of a third thing.

[233] I'm off of Diet Coke, dip and sugar.

[234] Oh, yeah.

[235] Sugar.

[236] Yeah.

[237] That's it.

[238] Have you ever done that?

[239] I've gone.

[240] So I went right after I got divorced, I did, I went to the mountains for a week by myself.

[241] San Gabriel's no I went into big sky in Montana can you imagine if you went to the same game you never really hear about anyone retreating to the San Gabriel's and I I did no food no drink just water and tea and no I took all my computers away my phone my everything I was there by myself so there was no talking and I just had a notepad and a pen and water and tea for a week for a week.

[242] Yeah.

[243] And that was...

[244] I would imagine the first two days are insufferable and then you kind of level off.

[245] I started to hallucinate on like day two, which was fantastic.

[246] Uh -huh.

[247] It was like pretty wonderful.

[248] Wow.

[249] And and God, I was like doing Tai Chi with, you know, my own energy.

[250] I don't know.

[251] Sure.

[252] I mean, if somebody was recording.

[253] And I wrote...

[254] You don't have any formal training in Tai Chi, do you?

[255] No. No, right.

[256] No. I was I was just doing, I was just doing what came to me. Sure.

[257] And then I wrote down every single.

[258] single relationship that I had where I felt like there was like some grudge or some anything regret anything and then I wrote letters to every single person and sent the letter on day seven I typed them all out and then sent them.

[259] I hand wrote them all and then typed them up and simply taking responsibility for your shortcomings in those relationships or just telling them you know what I still think you're asshole I just want to reach out it was like an a exercise where I was like I probably have like done some damage and some really so I just cleared palate and but that was seven days of of no anything uh -huh was really spiritual and kind of awesome but yeah I wouldn't I probably wouldn't I would probably find some way to get some nutrients into my body well what's interesting to me about when you do break up with someone and you've been with them for a while so I was with Bree for nine years and you knew Bree because I was with her during the whole punk era.

[260] When we broke up, the first six months, I had a laundry list of things she had done to cause this separation.

[261] I had like 18 things I thought she had done wrong.

[262] And then over the years, those have all just kind of gone away.

[263] And all I'm left with was all the things I did wrong.

[264] And those became really easy to see once I wasn't thinking about the things she did wrong.

[265] And I have, because I am an AA and I have to make amends all the time, I have over the last 12 years, I'll call her like once every six months and go, man, I just, I got to say.

[266] I'm also saying, she has said on numerous occasions, we are good.

[267] I have a great memory of you.

[268] You don't need to apologize any further.

[269] I'm like, no, I need to because I'm thinking about it as I fall asleep.

[270] Like, God, that was pretty shitty too.

[271] I'm sure I probably have more things now if I really sat down and like laundry listed again.

[272] And I should probably do that sometime soon.

[273] Yeah.

[274] When you go to bed, do you kind of go through things you kind of regret?

[275] Do you take like a mini inventory?

[276] I don't really.

[277] Do you fall right to sleep?

[278] Let me start there.

[279] Oh, God.

[280] Okay.

[281] I'm very obvious.

[282] I usually have like a 15 minute window before I hit the bed and then it's done.

[283] Wow.

[284] And if if not, I'll wake up and make a list because usually it's because I'm ruminating on something.

[285] Sure.

[286] And what I do is I just, immediately turn whatever it is that I can't stop thinking about.

[287] I just turn it into an executable list of how to actually take care of it.

[288] And then the next day, I just jump on it for a thing.

[289] Right.

[290] I'm every single night about 45 minutes of just thinking.

[291] It's never productive either.

[292] The things I will wake up at three in the morning, like this happened to me over Christmas.

[293] We went and saw my mom in Portland or in Hood River, Oregon.

[294] She has a dog.

[295] This dog was clearly killing me. I'm so allergic to this dog.

[296] And it's 20 degrees outside, so everything's sealed shut.

[297] And I just sat in this house for eight days dying.

[298] And I was like sprung awake at three in the morning thinking, oh my God, my stepfather's dying.

[299] And I've told her to come live in our house.

[300] And she's going to bring this fucking dog.

[301] And I've just signed my own death warrant.

[302] And I am, this at three in the morning is an insurmountable problem in my life.

[303] I will never be able to figure out how to keep the dog out of my living space at three in the morning.

[304] Can you build a dog house?

[305] Well, there's so many solutions.

[306] That's my point.

[307] But at three in the morning, this cannot be fixed.

[308] I have to take my mom in and yet I'm going to die because of this dog.

[309] And that, that's my three in the morning thinking.

[310] I don't have those types of flows.

[311] That's great.

[312] Do you, do you, do you, do you, do you listen to a bunch of podcasts?

[313] I listen to, I listen to Tim Ferriss, which I think is really interesting, this sort of cult around stoicism that he's building.

[314] I think it's like fascinating.

[315] I think he's like in some ways building a modern day cult, which I think is wonderful.

[316] And some of it's viable and some of it's valuable and some of it's.

[317] Do you listen to Sam Harris?

[318] I don't listen to Sam Harris.

[319] So I'm addicted to him and he's a neurologist by training and he has always a ton of doctors on.

[320] And they're always talking about your brain chemistry and how, you know, he actually doesn't believe in free will.

[321] I won't go that far.

[322] But he just talks about how, what a slave you are to your biochemistry and you just can't get around it.

[323] And the more I hear him talk about it, I just think, fuck, man, you hit the lottery.

[324] You're either born with great chemistry for this or that or you're, you know, it's, so for you, you go to bed at night and you go to sleep.

[325] That's not through any effort of yours during the day.

[326] Have you read the gene?

[327] The gene.

[328] Yeah.

[329] No. I've read the selfish gene.

[330] No, there's a great book called The Gene where the guy basically breaks out, nature versus nurture.

[331] Yes.

[332] And what it ultimately amounts to is nature.

[333] and nurture.

[334] It's both.

[335] But at best, they say it's 50 -50.

[336] But you can switch genes, right?

[337] Like, you can actually turn them on and turn them on.

[338] Like, environmental stimuli actually have the capacity to turn on and turn off genes to some degree.

[339] Some of them, right?

[340] Some of them, based on this book.

[341] I'm usually so exhausted by the time I get into bed that it's just over.

[342] It's literally like the batteries are empty.

[343] Yeah.

[344] But Bell's the same way.

[345] And even if she hasn't done anything exhausting.

[346] Like she hits the pillow and she's out.

[347] That's it.

[348] It's a wrap on her.

[349] She has seen me fall asleep maybe twice in the last 11 years.

[350] But do you, so do you introduce any kind of stimulants in the bedroom?

[351] Like, well, let me tell you my ritual when I go to sleep.

[352] I brew a pot of coffee and I open up a fresh can of dip.

[353] And then I get on my screen.

[354] I get that blue light just blasting into my eyes.

[355] No, I have an absurd ritual.

[356] And I think if I had to enter the day.

[357] world at this point.

[358] That's not your ritual.

[359] No, it's not my, I'm about to tell you my ritual.

[360] What is your ritual?

[361] But I'm just prefacing it by saying that it has occurred to me that if I had to date at this point in life, no one would ever date me because of things, yes, because of my ritual.

[362] I think I asked Tom Arnold this one time, when Tom Arnold got in divorce and he, and I knew he had a CPAP machine, right?

[363] So he's got this humongous machine he has to use to go to sleep and he had entered the dating world.

[364] And I said, how the fuck are you telling these girls that you're going a date with like, yes, I'll spend the night.

[365] Hold on.

[366] I got to go grab my gigantic machine out of my trunk and hook myself up to it in your bed.

[367] It must be so hard.

[368] But yeah, so I do a melatonin.

[369] I do a liquid melatonin shot, right?

[370] And I, unfortunately, most nights I have to also take like an Advil PM or an Aleve PM.

[371] And then I have to listen to a book on tape, but it has to be something very dense and historic so that it's so boring that.

[372] It's so boring that, it will put me to sleep.

[373] So I have to hook myself up, you know, and turn on the phone.

[374] And then I got to scrub back because last night I fell asleep at some point while it was on.

[375] And I got to find that place.

[376] It is ridiculous.

[377] I sometimes occasionally if I'm not ready to go to sleep, but meal is ready to go to sleep.

[378] We'll go to bed.

[379] And then we turn the TV on for a little while and then she'll fall asleep during a TV show.

[380] But then I can't leave the volume up because that wakes her up.

[381] So then I'll put in a book on tape and listen to it and fall asleep.

[382] And so I've experienced the rewind, the audible, like try to funding.

[383] Yes, it's very hard.

[384] But luckily now they've added to my thing that I use, you can at least set the timer.

[385] So I said it for an hour and I'd say 80 % of the nights, I'm asleep before it turns off.

[386] Right?

[387] So whatever.

[388] I thought this, no, it beats certainly what I was doing four years ago.

[389] I have a friend who's single but now newly in a relationship that doesn't allow his girlfriend to sleep in the same bed with him.

[390] Really?

[391] Because she wakes him up.

[392] He's a really light sleeper.

[393] And he has to pee apparently.

[394] like four times at night.

[395] Is this guy's named Dachshapher?

[396] Because you just described.

[397] But he, he sleeps in his own room.

[398] I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.

[399] But I mean, there's nothing wrong with anything.

[400] It's really.

[401] I mean, if you want to sleep on the roof of your house, great.

[402] But how does the girl feel?

[403] I don't know.

[404] I don't know how she feel.

[405] you know, apparently like she was.

[406] Again, another thing to break, another weird thing to break out on like the third day.

[407] Like, okay, so I'd love for you to spend the night, but you'll be sleeping.

[408] Here's your room.

[409] I would say that sleep is probably one of the most important things.

[410] I couldn't agree more.

[411] And finding whatever you have to do to make that happen.

[412] I'm neurotic about it.

[413] I got to get eight hours.

[414] And then so also, because you and I both have young kids.

[415] Yeah, well, there's that.

[416] And what is, I would say, and I was going to observe this about you.

[417] But you guys don't have monitors in your room.

[418] We don't have monitors.

[419] Fuck that.

[420] That's amazing.

[421] I really will say I do 50 % of the shit.

[422] with these kids.

[423] You know, like I definitely changed more than my share of diapers and I've done, I've been, I've exceeded what I think my father certainly did.

[424] But the one thing that now has evolved and I thank her so much for this is she, and this took us a few years to figure out, she now gets up with the kids because I'll get up with them, but then I'm up for another 40 minutes.

[425] She can get up and then come back to sleep and she's out in 30 seconds.

[426] And then we just realized, I just can't do it because I'll be up all night long, you know?

[427] Who gets up between you and Mila?

[428] We both get up every morning.

[429] Well, I'm talking about in the middle of the night if something goes haywire.

[430] The night, but we flipped it back and forth.

[431] Yeah, you take turns.

[432] Because she was breastfeeding the kids, she primarily, she did way more than her chair.

[433] Yes.

[434] I would say probably like 80, 20 because she could go and breastfeed them and put them back down when they were little.

[435] I mean, now they don't wake up at night, which is good.

[436] But during that period of time, she probably took on 80 % of that.

[437] Yeah.

[438] But, you know, and people don't plan well because I would be like when I was on Parenthood, there were a bunch of people on that show who had young kids too.

[439] And what shocked me is that our approach to it Kristen and I's, and this was back when she was, the kids were breastfeeding was I would do the late night feeding and I would do it with a bottle.

[440] And then she would do early morning so that at least we were both getting eight hours, you know, just in two different slots.

[441] Yeah, I don't, I don't know that our kids slept pretty well.

[442] We got this thing for kid number one there was a lot of those like crazy weird nights like you just because you don't know how to plan because you've never done it before so you have no idea yeah kid number two we got one of those snooze have you heard of this thing no it's an oscillating bet you should disclose if you have an interest i don't have an interest i have no interest so the guy so the guy who uh wrote happiest baby on the block oh yeah shushing the five asses yeah yeah the five asses swaying swaddling shushing sucking there you go and whatever yeah So this guy, shaking, no. Violently shaking.

[443] Violently oscillate.

[444] So this guy.

[445] It's four S's and then a V. S's.

[446] So this guy invented this bed that does the S's, right?

[447] Oh, really?

[448] It's got a natural swaddle.

[449] And it's got a sensor in it.

[450] And so the louder the kid cries, the faster it goes.

[451] Oh, Jesus.

[452] And it puts the kid back to sleep.

[453] It's unbelievable.

[454] Right.

[455] Trust me on the same.

[456] Yeah.

[457] So for our second kid, he slept six hours a night.

[458] 16 hours a day.

[459] He slept six hours a night.

[460] on like night three and it was done like and he would just think if he wake up and he'd be and it would just start going really really slowly what a product you put him back down and if you start crying a lot and at a certain point you know you take him out because you're like okay this isn't happening yeah yeah but I mean he was like a six hour a night sleeper really early and I I'm I'm eternally grateful to this new for that I give very few gifts to people when they are expecting and that is one thing I get people happiest baby on the block always yeah He has a really funny name, too, Dr. Harvey Carp.

[461] So happy he's being on the block.

[462] And the other one I do is a sleep easy solution, which is how to sleep train your kids.

[463] Uh -huh.

[464] Yes, we were militant that way as well.

[465] I think some people just fail on that one hard.

[466] They do.

[467] Yeah.

[468] And they're the only ones that pay the price.

[469] That's what's funny.

[470] Yeah.

[471] And once you nail that, it's everything else is manageable.

[472] Yeah.

[473] It's hard not to be judgmental when you're a parent.

[474] You have friends who like their kids a year and half and they still don't sleep through the night.

[475] Yeah.

[476] You're like, come on.

[477] Really?

[478] Yeah.

[479] But I want to get back to the moment that we started becoming friends and hanging out because it was such a fun period for me. And it really was like a light switch because I went again from nine years of obscurity to doing punk.

[480] And then immediately I got to start doing movies, right?

[481] And this really interesting and embarrassing thing happened, right?

[482] which is the greatest thing that ever happened to me was punked.

[483] But then I went and did without a paddle.

[484] And I immediately, when they would write reviews of it, and they'd say, the guy from punked or the guy from the reality show, right?

[485] So for years, I was ashamed and embarrassed that I had come from punked and that I was on a reality show.

[486] I knew you were.

[487] Yeah.

[488] And it took me, I got to say it took me about 10 years before I was able to come back around and be proud of having done that show.

[489] And it's such a failing of my own self -esteem that I just was like, no, I want to be a real actor.

[490] I don't want to be a guy who was on a reality show.

[491] But the weird thing is, is that show, so amongst many other reality shows that there are that are out there and in no way, shape, or form judging anyone who is doing a reality show.

[492] The difference was that show was formulaic improv acting, right?

[493] So, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, every single sketch that we did, there was an outline for the sketch, what we were trying to accomplish, what we were trying to do.

[494] And then the nuance of the interior was all improv acting, right?

[495] But you were playing a character every single time.

[496] And I think that there's a big, because a lot of people, especially as like the whole paparazzi reality stuff started happening, you know, like the TMZ guys would be like, come on, man, you did reality show.

[497] I was like, yeah, but every single person that was ever on that show signed a waiver and agreed to actually be on it.

[498] It wasn't as if we were like, you know, haunting people on the sides of the street.

[499] Like, they all signed waivers and agreed to be on it.

[500] And anybody who didn't wasn't on it.

[501] Yeah.

[502] What you were doing was acting.

[503] It was performing and acting.

[504] But I knew, I knew going out of it because, you know, I had the same, like, when I, after I did do where's my car.

[505] Yeah, yeah.

[506] You know, that's kind of why I bring it up because you've had a couple things I imagine that were like, they were everything.

[507] But then yet, soon as they happen, you, you start like wanting to be away from them.

[508] So after five years of.

[509] of, you know, later after Do Where's My Car and people were still dudes tweeting me. I was like, really?

[510] Like, can we have a different, like, can I do something else with my career that's significant?

[511] Yeah.

[512] And then after punked, it was like, oh, you got punk.

[513] I still today, like, people, you know, are like, are you poking me right now?

[514] I'm like, no, I'm literally, I'm literally, I'm not punking.

[515] So, and then you kind of want to get away from it and get the, like, and put the next thing under the belt because you don't want to be known for that one thing.

[516] Yeah.

[517] And I knew that you had that feeling in that sense.

[518] And I'm glad that you got to a point where you now celebrated because what you did was extraordinary work.

[519] And in a weird way, you know, the reason why when you started by saying thank you and I said, no, thank you is because, A, without you, I don't think the show would have been nearly as successful as it was.

[520] And B, you know, I got a lot of credit for that show because I was, you know, hosting the show and behind the scenes and helping directing and producing.

[521] and and you know they would show me feed in a line to you and then you would say it but 90 % of the stuff that you did was your material your own stuff and it was funny and great and brilliant and I think I got a lot of credit for a lot of the stuff that was organically yours and and so well the thing I'm really proud of now is that having done a bunch of regular acting work I regularly on the set of parenthood was not good the first three takes it was not believable what I was doing and I got to do it again and again until I got to where it was believable.

[522] And certainly I'm punked that it was one take.

[523] It was one take.

[524] And if you fucked up, the bit was kind of over.

[525] Like they would realize, oh, this is bullshit.

[526] It wasn't just over.

[527] It was, you know, sometimes $200 ,000, $300 ,000 down.

[528] Oh, yeah.

[529] And in certain.

[530] So from a production standpoint, it was like.

[531] The stakes were high.

[532] And I hadn't done anything either.

[533] And there were certain guests we had like when we did timber like all of MTV came.

[534] Like that was such a marque.

[535] person for them and their relationship was obviously so important that they really were micromanaging that so the garage was full of what everyone that worked at MTV was in that garage and they had all pulled me aside separately to say don't fuck this one up this isn't the one to go big on you know all these different things were happening and then it went off but I think of like yeah what we got away was with the Nicolus Shake one you know now I'm really proud of that like that one as far as could possibly go probably without he and I fist and he never At one point, thought it wasn't real, which is, I think is pretty amazing.

[536] It was, there were two things that were like being able to press the buttons as hard as you press the buttons and stay in it and not break and lose your shit.

[537] One, two, it was like the value of the non sequitur like connectivity was, I mean, I go back to like Dave Navarro and Carmen Electra.

[538] in the back of an SUV and you're like shooting the shit with him about drum sets and like your your your random access knowledge base on so many variable topics to be able to like find some connective tissue that you can chit chat with the guy about oh there's a topic I know 4 % of I'll talk about it and you and you just go the best about nicholaset was you you were you came in my ear and you go oh my god oh my god he just said because we could hear what he was saying inside of the house because the house was a microphone but I was in the front yard And then you came in my ear and you go, oh my God, he just said, he just said to Jessica, I think I'm going to have to fight this guy to get him off my property.

[539] You're like, go back to the door.

[540] And then I go neck at the door.

[541] I'm like, are you talking about fighting?

[542] Which, how on earth would I have heard that from the other side of the door?

[543] And he was like, no, no, no, no one, there will be no fighting today.

[544] Whatever.

[545] That was, yeah, that was spectacular.

[546] It was the adrenaline rush of, of go.

[547] Yeah, yeah.

[548] a different level.

[549] Like you get like, I get mild versions of it doing sitcom, which is why I like doing sitcom so much.

[550] Yeah.

[551] Because you have a live audience.

[552] You have a live audience.

[553] And so there's a mile.

[554] And you know a joke is just going to slay.

[555] And you don't want to fuck it up because you have a live audience.

[556] It's like doing a play, right?

[557] Yeah.

[558] So there's a little bit of that same energy.

[559] And you just get jacked off of that energy.

[560] Yeah.

[561] Before you go.

[562] So there's a little bit of that.

[563] But I don't think anything would compare to like, the mark is here.

[564] Yeah.

[565] Oh, yeah.

[566] Let's go.

[567] Everybody in the person.

[568] Mark is here.

[569] Here we go.

[570] We're ready to go.

[571] He's here.

[572] He's here.

[573] He's here.

[574] Okay.

[575] Okay.

[576] There he is.

[577] He's right there.

[578] Oh, well, oh, there's a boge.

[579] There's a boge.

[580] Get the bogey out of here.

[581] Somebody go clear of the boge.

[582] It was like just the intense nature of like pulling one of those things off.

[583] And they were very exhilarating when they would end.

[584] It was quite a high.

[585] Yeah.

[586] I imagine it's what being on stage at, you know, in New York is like or something.

[587] Yeah.

[588] But I think that you and I, I think you and I share this in common.

[589] I think it's a very human thing.

[590] But now that you've been doing it now for I guess 25 years you've been employed doing this right 20 years yeah as an entertainer and I've now been doing it for 15 years or whatever and again I think it's a human thing where it's like I would have this goal and it was a goal that I didn't even think it was accomplishable or it was just in the stratosphere of goals and then I would get that goal and then the second I get that goal it's immediately fuck I need to do that thing and then I would get that thing and then now we got to do that thing and there's people I had to be and there was like I had to be Will Ferrell at one point like I had to be Adam Sandler you know like after without a paddle my my just my ego went just started projecting on what this could be because this is already crazier than I thought was ever possible and then just is constantly moving the goalpost yeah which I think is very human it for me it it was a rough way to evaluate my life.

[591] Because I remember, in fact, I was talking to Kevin Smith, and we were talking about movies, and he was saying movies he directed that he loved that didn't work and this and that, right?

[592] And I was lamenting at that time that Chips hadn't made a bunch of money.

[593] And he said, which I just think is brilliant, it's like, imagine you go back and you find 12 -year -old Dax.

[594] And you tell Dax, when you grow up, you're going to write and direct a movie for Warner Brothers.

[595] He goes, do you think that 12 -year -old version of yourself at any point would be like, what did it make?

[596] Right.

[597] You know what I'm saying?

[598] Like you would not evaluate yourself by that.

[599] Yet I do that continuously, right?

[600] Or I think I'm inching closer to not doing that and it my life's getting, you know, exponentially better because of it.

[601] But do you think you've had that as well where it's like, you're from fucking Iowa?

[602] You end up on this huge hit TV show, the 70s show, right?

[603] And your brain is like, but I got to do this.

[604] Yeah.

[605] Yeah.

[606] You do it.

[607] And you can't, I don't think you can help but do it.

[608] I had a weird.

[609] So when I was in college, I, and I was in this fraternity, at one point they told us to write down what our life goals were.

[610] And write them down in your pocket and put it keep in your wallet.

[611] It sounds like a nice fraternity.

[612] That's not what I associate fraternities with.

[613] There's a ton of other stuff.

[614] This is like maybe the one value story that I'm going to.

[615] that I'm going to extract.

[616] But I wrote down that I wanted to move to Hollywood and be on the big screen.

[617] And then that happened.

[618] Right.

[619] And then you're like, oh, and I carried it around in my wallet until the day it happened.

[620] And then I wrote a new one, which still hasn't happened.

[621] Win an Oscar.

[622] Yeah, good luck for that one, buddy.

[623] You're a different kind of actor.

[624] So it's weird when you start to hit those goals.

[625] And I had a weird little, you know, you're kind of like, as an entertainer, you're balancing between the commerce and the art all the time.

[626] And you're kind of jumping back and forth.

[627] And, you know, a lot of people do this, like I could do one for them, one for me thing.

[628] Right.

[629] Yeah, really how many people have the ability to do one for them, one for me?

[630] I'm happy with either of those.

[631] Yeah, like, I'm happy to have the next job.

[632] But in the last year, I got to a point where it was like the commerce piece didn't so much matter, right?

[633] Like, I actually have like enough financial stability where I could kind of not work and be okay.

[634] Yeah.

[635] And so now I'm at a point where it's like I have no excuses for it to not be craft.

[636] And it's, and I don't know if I'm like exacting on.

[637] that yet.

[638] But it's a weird thing.

[639] But even that, don't you think that even, even that is a lot, a little bit ego.

[640] So I have been in things that were really successful and then I was embarrassed by them, right?

[641] Or like, sure.

[642] Like, Seth and I went to the first screening of without a paddle.

[643] We thought we were making diner in the woods.

[644] I mean, we really did think that while we were making it.

[645] Have you seen my boss's daughter?

[646] Have you seen?

[647] I mean, I've got a laundry list.

[648] Yeah.

[649] But we see the movie and we're like, oh my God, this is, this movie is for 12 year olds.

[650] This isn't diner in the woods.

[651] And then we're like, we're kind of embarrassed or whatever we are.

[652] And then the movie comes out and it does well.

[653] And then years later, I'm like in Ohio, Chris and I are riding my motorcycle from New York to Detroit.

[654] We stop at like, you know, a Best Western in Ohio.

[655] And this woman comes out to me in the parking lot and she's holding the without a paddle DVD.

[656] And she goes, we're on our without a paddle trip.

[657] My family, every year we go canoeing.

[658] That's why we're here in Ohio.

[659] We go canoeing and we bring the movie and we watch the movie.

[660] movie every day and then we go and I was like that absolutely blew my mind and then I thought how on earth is that more relevant than having been in a movie that made six million dollars that got a nomination for an award literally the difference is my ego says oh my peers or the people I want approval from will like that tiny movie and at a certain point you have to question like what what is one audience better to serve than another yeah so I don't know that it's about like serving one audience or the other I guess it's doing what you what movies you like maybe it's doing things I I think for me the difference has become doing things that have some level of social relevance that that is that that have the potential to leave an imprint and change the way that people see something or think about something and so so so like I'll take the ranch as an example right I don't think anybody is going to look at the ranch and Netflix and go, okay, that's, that is a, that's a highbrow piece of material.

[661] But there's this giant underserved audience in the middle of America that doesn't have shows made for it anymore.

[662] Right.

[663] And, and so like if you, there's a reason why so many people watch Duck Dynasty.

[664] There's a reason why people watch ice stroke.

[665] Well, people hate ducks.

[666] Exactly.

[667] Mostly they just want to see ducks go down.

[668] But there, there was all this programming that I was noticing that was on television that that was being directed at this audience that was drastically underserved.

[669] And my thought of going and doing a show like The Ranch is, you know, we tackled the subject of abortion, but we tackled it from the perspective of middle America.

[670] Yeah.

[671] Which, where it's not so clean, cut, and clear, right?

[672] Yeah.

[673] And there's a viable, valuable point on one side of the argument that it's totally underserved in media across the board.

[674] Sure.

[675] Right.

[676] Which is, which is, you know, the right to life, right?

[677] Yeah.

[678] Yeah.

[679] And then, and then you also have this pro -choice argument that is represented in the show.

[680] And it wasn't so clean and clear and cut and cut that, you know, one was the more viable option.

[681] Right.

[682] On the show.

[683] Yeah.

[684] And now for me, I have my own personal belief.

[685] Sure.

[686] Which, you know, you kind of have to put aside for the character that you're playing.

[687] Yeah.

[688] But like being able to tackle a topic like that and, and, and, and, and play it out relative to.

[689] what societal norms are in different places has a different social impact when you come from it from the perspective of from a conservative perspective yes well i'm pro choice but i a hundred percent get pro life if you think that is murdering an actual baby at two months if that's what you believe then fuck yes you should fight nonstop and i i totally get it i personally don't think that's killing a baby but if you think that and i can certainly wrap my head around it then yeah that should be your number one, when you vote and everything else, that should probably govern all your decisions.

[690] So I look at it and I go, I would agree with you and say, I'm pro -choice, but I can totally understand the argument of pro -life.

[691] And I believe that for pro -life people to have a pro -life perspective for themselves is viable and valuable to have it for other people, you know, give them a choice of, you know, everyone should have the right in some degree to govern their own choices about what they do with their own bodies.

[692] Yeah.

[693] And so you don't have to take the choice away from other people to make that choice for yourself.

[694] Yes.

[695] But being able to have, I don't, in most public places, you can't have that argument today.

[696] Well, you, because it devolves so quickly into, into an argument that is unsolvable.

[697] Yes.

[698] And so being able to actually produce media that addresses these types of topics or that addresses global warming from the perspective of a rancher.

[699] Or that addresses, you know, immigration from the perspective of a rancher.

[700] You know, being able to sort of do something like that has a different level.

[701] So it's that political.

[702] The show is, yeah.

[703] So it is in its undertones, right?

[704] So in the story topic, the stories that we choose, I think this season we're going to potentially look at veterans and just the sort of different skew on veteran health.

[705] I would play a great bet.

[706] Like looking at me, don't I scream back?

[707] I went to Afghanistan twice to entertain the troops.

[708] I think I'm halfway there.

[709] If you want to come hang out, we might have a vacancy in our show at this point.

[710] Great.

[711] I'll do it.

[712] So, but the point being that it's, like, it doesn't have to be the most highbrow.

[713] Like, this is certainly not to serve the audience in Los Angeles or our peers in the entertainment business.

[714] But it has a social relevance that's different than other things than just going off and doing a funny movie for a funny sake.

[715] Yeah.

[716] And I think like being, like, I'd love to tackle a movie about mental health.

[717] Like, I think that that would be an interesting topic to take on.

[718] I'd love to tackle a movie about, you know, privacy, which I think is an interesting topic.

[719] And it's, it's really about like, for me at this point, it's about taking on pieces of work that actually have some level of social relevance around the topic that I care about.

[720] Yeah.

[721] And I think that's admirable.

[722] But what I'm thinking more about, because I get in a lot of debates with actors who, are generally, is very actory to be unhappy on the show you're on, right?

[723] There's like most actors I talk to, they're lamenting about some aspect of the show they're on, which is crazy to me, right?

[724] Mind you, I've done it.

[725] So it's not like I can't relate.

[726] But it is funny when you think about, for me, it's very clear because I don't believe in God, right?

[727] So I don't think I'm going to go to heaven and reflect back on my life at any point and go like, oh, everyone loved you and blah, blah, blah.

[728] So for me, my life is really about what's happening.

[729] day to day while I'm here for the next 45 years.

[730] For you, it's about being able to go to sleep at night.

[731] That's all I'm trying to do is just fucking go to sleep.

[732] I'm looking forward to dying so I could just sleep.

[733] But, you know, when you think about, when you're evaluating your career, which I think is just dangerous in general, instead of just going, like, what I've observed about you is I've gone to the 70s show.

[734] I've watched you do the 70 show.

[735] And then I've watched you at the curtain call where your people are clapping.

[736] you fucking love being on a sitcom like you enjoy that or at least the times I saw I love having a live audience to play to yeah like yeah it's a blast right it's the best and it should end there right you shouldn't I think that's like all that really matters is like what what are you doing daily and what is that experience like and your life is about these experiences and it's not until your narrative self starts writing the book about Ashton and saying well I should have been on breaking bad Yeah, I don't do that.

[737] Do you still do that?

[738] No, I don't do that.

[739] But I have been on time, right?

[740] I have been on a sitcom that I didn't enjoy being on.

[741] Okay, well, it has to be two and a half man because you've only been on three, right?

[742] Well, and the only reason that I struggle, I struggle with it is because I didn't, I didn't know what I was supposed to be playing.

[743] Like I was trying, I was like, that was a very weird thing to experience, right?

[744] Yeah, it was weird.

[745] And I thought it was one thing going in and then it's.

[746] slowly became something else as I was on it.

[747] And it was, I loved working with the people that I worked with because I had an extraordinary group of people I was working with.

[748] But I didn't know my character.

[749] Like I wasn't a hundred percent, you know, when you, when you, when you have a character that you're playing and you know what the character's edge is, like you kind of know what their vices are.

[750] Right.

[751] And so you know how to lean every joke and it just becomes natural to where to lean a joke.

[752] Yeah.

[753] I couldn't quite, I struggled every single day figuring out where to lean my jokes on this character and I and I couldn't find an edge for the character that was and so it was how many years did you do that three like three years but I I found it hard yeah and I wasn't sure what the message of the show was like yeah like you're like Kelso probably got easier and easier every year to play for you right to the point where it got boring oh okay and then and that's why I left the show because I left the show the two seasons before I think it was over and and it wasn't about I need to leave to go have some big movie career this is the time where I'm going to go because I probably would have made more money just staying on the show right I just wasn't interested in playing that character anymore because I played it for a while and and I knew I could have written it right like I knew exactly what the next joke was going to be and I meant and it was and I was recycling material and it just got to a point where I was like okay I'm I think I'm done doing like this isn't exciting and fun for me right you're also young how old were you when you 26 25 25 you're three years I was 26 you're three years younger than me which is depressing I was 26 but yeah I remember coming home like maybe season three of parenthood and saying to Kristen um I think I've gotten so lazy or something because like I don't I'm not doing anything now to do to be Crosby she goes oh no hon that's what being on a show is all about like it just gets easier and easier and easier and then weirdly I'm getting better and better at it doing less and less and less and thinking less and less about it, which was, I loved.

[754] I could have done, I feel like I could have done that for 20 years.

[755] Yeah, I, you know, at this point, I always go to my writing staff on The Ranch now and I'm like, write me a scene that's hard for this character.

[756] Uh -huh.

[757] Like, write me something that is like hard for him to deal with in play.

[758] Right.

[759] So that I've got, so I have to think about, how would he react to that?

[760] Do you think you are ADD?

[761] A little bit.

[762] Because you're, you're, you.

[763] You have a ton of pursuits, right?

[764] You act, you produce, but you also have this whole tech thing you do and all this investing.

[765] Do you think it's because you get bored easy?

[766] Or do you think it's because back to like our narrative, are there things you want to accomplish because you want to be seen in some way?

[767] So let me start.

[768] I'll start.

[769] I'll share first just so you know.

[770] No, I know exactly where you go.

[771] I grew up dyslexic.

[772] So I have this huge chip on my shoulder that everyone thinks I'm stupid.

[773] So I'm almost insufferable.

[774] Meanwhile, you're one of the more intelligent people I know.

[775] That's why this show is called Armchair Expert because I'm still compensating from going to special ed as a kid.

[776] And I just wonder if there's anything in your past that has you so driven.

[777] Like, is it just pure curiosity and healthiness or is it, are you trying to?

[778] No, it's absolute insecurity.

[779] Okay, great, great.

[780] That's what I was hoping.

[781] So that's way more interesting to me. I was, I go back and I watch like the first episodes of that 70's show and I'm shocked I didn't get fired.

[782] I was sure I was going to get fired.

[783] I didn't know what I was doing.

[784] I didn't have a clue.

[785] I like I didn't understand a joke.

[786] Like I didn't understand sarcasm.

[787] Or are you 19?

[788] Yeah.

[789] And I really had no idea was and I was convinced I was going to get fired.

[790] Like convinced.

[791] And in fact, at one point in time, Terry Turner like grabbed me and put push me up against the wall and was like, what are you doing to my character?

[792] Why are you doing this?

[793] And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.

[794] I'm not in control of anything I'm doing.

[795] I think this was like season three right.

[796] This is at the moment where I started to gain a little confidence right.

[797] I was like okay I got this and I was like I'm getting fired like that's it like I'm sure I was going to get fired so I was like I'm starting a production company because at least that's and there's a lot of downtime on a set and you're just kind of sitting around and yeah and so so that was like step one and then I actually got fired from a Cameron Crow movie.

[798] Okay that so I had this interesting Which is probably a blessing.

[799] I don't know.

[800] It was a blessing for me from a work ethic perspective relative to how to build a character and everything else.

[801] So I was doing 70th show at the time and punked and I booked this M -night Sharmelon movie.

[802] And at the same time...

[803] Which one?

[804] The village.

[805] Oh, okay.

[806] So at the same time, I booked Elizabeth Town with Cameron Crowe.

[807] And I was like, I was like, holy shit, like this is it, right?

[808] Yeah.

[809] Now I'm, now I'm going to be a lead.

[810] This is my leading man moment.

[811] And I was like, do I do this M. Night Shyamalan?

[812] Really quick.

[813] Do you remember at that time who the archetype was that you were, that you wanted to be?

[814] Whose career at that moment?

[815] Tom Cruise.

[816] Okay.

[817] Right to the top.

[818] Give me Tom Cruise.

[819] Like, that's where I'm going to.

[820] That's great.

[821] I said Will Ferrell, so it's the same shit.

[822] No, I was like Tom Cruise.

[823] I was going to be Jim Carrey or Wilfair.

[824] I moved like when I was a kid, when I came, when I came out, I wanted to be, uh, uh, um, um, Tom Bercheron.

[825] No, no, no, I'm blanking under the same, uh, um, from, uh, uh, say a movie.

[826] No, uh, God, why am I blanking on this guy's name?

[827] I can't believe I'm blanking on his name.

[828] Kurt Cameron.

[829] Oh, I was like, Kirk Cameron.

[830] Yeah.

[831] On like, uh, who's the boss?

[832] No, no, no, full, full, full, was it full house.

[833] A growing pains.

[834] Full boss.

[835] Growing pains.

[836] Kurt Cameron from Growing Paints, right?

[837] That was my, so that was my like 13, 12 year old self was like someday Kirk Kent, that would be like that way.

[838] And then I - Patrick Dempsey from Can't Buy Me Love back then.

[839] Okay.

[840] Yeah, I thought he was the boss.

[841] I was all Kurt Cameron, Mike Seaver all day.

[842] That was my.

[843] And so then and that and that, then I moved like, I was like Tom Cruise.

[844] This is the next level.

[845] And so I got this camera crew movie and I had to turn down.

[846] the M. Night Shyamalan movie.

[847] And I don't think Scott Rudin was very happy about that.

[848] He produced the Shyamalan movie.

[849] Which sucks because I think Scott Rood's probably the best producer in the entire.

[850] And so, and I don't think at that point, I don't think I never ever got a chance to work with him again.

[851] It would someday maybe I'll just be like, I think I should have done your movie.

[852] So I started working with Cameron on this thing.

[853] And we were doing rehearsals and he kept videotaping me while I was doing the rehearsals.

[854] And I was like, why are you videotaping?

[855] make me very nervous.

[856] I was getting very nervous and he was like, I want to, I want to show you the things that you're doing that I want you to, that I like.

[857] And I was like, okay.

[858] And, and we were just in rehearsed like, you know, you memorized any of this.

[859] I was like, well, we're not shooting yet.

[860] And he's like, well, yeah, but we're rehearsing it.

[861] So you need to get it like, get on.

[862] And I was like, and I had a lot going on my life and, and with the show and this and that and my own social life and everything else.

[863] And I, and I was sort of pseudo focusing on it, but not really like, I was like, I'm going to show up and play it.

[864] Yeah, yeah.

[865] Not like I'm going to really prepare it and do the work to get ready to perform this care.

[866] And I got fired.

[867] Can I ask you a quick question?

[868] Do you think was there any part of you that was afraid you weren't going to be able to execute this?

[869] So you weren't giving it 100%.

[870] So you'd have some kind of excuse at some point.

[871] No, it totally wasn't that.

[872] It was that I didn't know how to prepare.

[873] Right.

[874] To do this kind of work.

[875] Yeah.

[876] Like I had no. How would you?

[877] Like I didn't, I'd know.

[878] It's not on the back of the way.

[879] taking an acting class.

[880] I'd never done nothing like and I didn't have an acting and so and I was just not and every other role I played I kind of showed up and just did what came to me in that moment and that was what I and so I didn't know I really didn't know how to prepare and I got fired and then I was like it's over yeah right and so then I'm like double down on everything that's not acting because you might never work again right and I was pretty sure at that point that I wasn't going to work again and you're embarrassed right And embarrassed.

[881] And I got fired the other day.

[882] I had about half hour of being embarrassed.

[883] But I was also like, I was way too cocky and way too arrogant and way too sure that I had already got there.

[884] Yeah.

[885] And so then I just was like, I'm just going to double down on this production stuff.

[886] And in doing that, I started finding an interest in technology.

[887] I want to defend you for half a second here because I like to use Bill Clinton as an example of this.

[888] So people are shocked that Bill Clinton was getting blowjobs in the Oval Office and stuff.

[889] And I say, well, if your entire life, all the data you've collected thus far is every time they told me something couldn't happen or I couldn't do something, I did it, right?

[890] Like to say you're going to be the governor of Arkansas at his age, no one had done that.

[891] So then he does that and he goes, oh, I guess what they told me is not true.

[892] I can do this.

[893] And then, oh, you're going to become the president after getting fired as the governor, then be the governor again, then become, you know, your whole life.

[894] all this evidence you've collected is like, oh, don't listen.

[895] They're not right.

[896] I'm doing, I end up doing all this stuff, right?

[897] And so, yeah, you think you can get away with a blowjob in the Oval Office.

[898] I would imagine similarly, you were doing fucking great.

[899] All the evidence you had collected at that point as a young dude was, no, if I try, it'll work out and I'll have some success.

[900] Yeah, if I show up on the day and I've got like you had stumbled from not putting in the work up to that point.

[901] So how were you supposed to just through.

[902] Osmosis know that?

[903] I didn't, I didn't know.

[904] And I, there wasn't really a way to know.

[905] Until you.

[906] Until I got.

[907] Yeah.

[908] And then I fucked up.

[909] And then I, but then I got it.

[910] Like at that point, I was like, oh, I got it.

[911] Yeah.

[912] And, and, and that's when I started working on my acting.

[913] Like, where I was like, wait a second.

[914] If I actually want to take this serious, I have to work as an actor to get better as an actor.

[915] Right.

[916] Like, I, you know, since I've worked with the acting coaches.

[917] And I'm, you know, read tons of books on acting and, like, learned about acting because before I literally showed up and put whatever I had in the room and that was enough.

[918] Sure.

[919] And so that was a good moment, but it also made me double down on other things.

[920] And so I started focusing on for my production company, I saw buffering speeds were getting faster and faster for online video.

[921] And I was like, wait a second, this is the next, like, why, who needs TV?

[922] Right.

[923] And then I found on Twitter and started finding a bunch of other things that I thought were interesting and started investing in it really quick because I remember stopping by one time I think to catalyst your your your company you have a cool building you still have it no I got rid of the company okay I don't at any rate you had a really cool space and I stopped by there and I think you were saying oh on this day of every month this room is a think tank and I get all these designers and programmers and they come in here and we kind of think tank and I I remember thinking that you are a very unlikely mascot for that group for Silicon Valley guys.

[924] Because if I'm a Silicon Valley guy, I feel like I would hate you because you're gorgeous and you're tall.

[925] How is it?

[926] Why is it that they accepted you like that?

[927] I imagined them like.

[928] I showed up.

[929] Like I imagine Paul Giamani being huge in that community where he could have a thing.

[930] Because he's one of them that got through.

[931] Is it just because you reached out first?

[932] No, I was like one of the first people that I would fly up there to meet them.

[933] Go to these gigantic tech conferences and not sit on a panel and be an expert.

[934] Right.

[935] Not judge anything.

[936] Like I'm the expert.

[937] You were there to learn.

[938] I was just there and I would sit down and I would take 20 meetings in a day with every single person in the space.

[939] How are you even getting those meetings?

[940] Like someone saying.

[941] So I hired somebody.

[942] So I went to one of these things and I found this woman.

[943] that named Sarah Ross that was that basically brought in all the companies to this tech crunch just tech crunch 50 at the time and um and I hired her to run my digital division and she knew everyone in the bell right and she just started you know connecting you reaching out and going hey this guy wants to he wants to meet with you he just wants to learn he just wants to talk to you and get some advice and I and I just went started asking everyone for advice there was no part of Because I imagine myself in that scenario, and I would be trying to let them know just how much I understand of their world.

[944] You were able to not do that and just be a student.

[945] I didn't understand.

[946] I mean, I was, first of all, I went to school.

[947] Did you try to impress them at all?

[948] Well, I went to school for biochemical engineering.

[949] Yeah.

[950] And so I had some engineering cred, right?

[951] Like I understand programming language.

[952] I don't write code, but I understand it.

[953] Okay.

[954] I understand how it works.

[955] I understand, I read tons of books and learned, you know, how a computer works and learned how, like, I actually understand a lot of these basic things.

[956] And I, and I think that part of where I connected with folks was on products, on, um, understanding what people would intuitively do and why they would do it.

[957] Um, and based on what was the, what was the optimized want?

[958] of any given page or screen.

[959] Like, what do you want people to do on this page or screen?

[960] Right, right.

[961] And I could understand the feeling of that.

[962] Yeah.

[963] And I think that from a product sensibility standpoint, there were certain little things that I would look at and I would go, well, why wouldn't you move this here and do that in order to get people through this funnel this way?

[964] Yeah.

[965] And people would go, whoa, that's actually a decent idea.

[966] Right.

[967] And once I gained a little bit of credibility with a couple of people, then they became that spread they became the tenants for me to build relationships with other people because they go oh he's actually a pretty good product guy and thinks about this stuff the same way that we think about this stuff yeah and so so that was that was the way that I managed I have that in the automotive world but there's no way to make money on it well you sure there's well well you have to be seen I mean there certainly could be right yeah yeah but I know what you're saying I guess what I'm saying is when I'm out the sand dunes the dudes are like no he's a real gearhead like I get the pass, which makes me feel great.

[968] He can really build an engine.

[969] So here's the thing.

[970] So once you get the real gearhead creed from one guy, he introduces you to another real gearhead creed guy and another one.

[971] And then the next thing you know, you actually build a pretty strong network of folks.

[972] Yes.

[973] So then that thing is.

[974] But you are uniquely good at, because you have a good track record.

[975] I have been invited as you get invited when you're on TV to go to the launch of some app or maybe to invest in it.

[976] And I literally go, I have no idea what people would want to use as an app.

[977] I don't use many apps.

[978] I use postmates because I like getting food delivered to my house.

[979] That's about it.

[980] So I can't even begin to, like when Uber was explained to me, I thought, who the fuck doesn't want to drive?

[981] That's how egocentric my point of view is.

[982] I'm like, I would never want to have some guy drive me around her.

[983] That's why I passed on it the first time I saw it.

[984] Oh, you did?

[985] Yeah, because you got the same thing.

[986] I love driving.

[987] This guy, Tony Shea, who invented Zappos.

[988] Uh -huh.

[989] Love Zappalo's.

[990] Had this party bus that at South by Southwest during Tech Week that he would drive around and everybody would get drunk on the way.

[991] And Travis, who was the former CEO, was only who was pitching me this thing.

[992] I was like, why?

[993] I want to get picked up in a black car.

[994] Like that's kind of like gross to get dropped off by like.

[995] And I was like, no, I did this.

[996] And I pass on it.

[997] And then like a year later, I was like, I realized that the Uber X factor where it was going to be Priuses and it was going to be.

[998] and it was like, oh, democratized.

[999] I get it.

[1000] And then, and then I understood it and then I invested in it.

[1001] But like, yeah, at first you're just like, but most of these like really big ideas seem crazy at first.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] And then you start to identify crazy.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] Well, I would imagine you get this because I'll get super jealous because I'll hear, oh, Ashton's, yeah, he, he's into four square and he does this.

[1006] And then I start, I'm, I'm jealously thinking like, well, I should be doing that too and I think a lot of our peers start thinking that right and then when they when you run into people they must either want to be a part of that or they want to know how you got to be a part of that do you find that I find that there are a lot of people that are I've spared you that I think for the most part right I mean I see you I don't really even no but I think there are a lot of people that are now trying to move into the investing space yes and it's it's like you know I mean listen It's hard.

[1007] It's hard and a lot of work.

[1008] And we have...

[1009] And most are losers, right?

[1010] The vast, vast majority.

[1011] I mean, you're investing in a hundred things so that two work and cover all your losses.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] And so you got to be, you have to, A, have enough money to hang around for a hundred.

[1014] And two, you have to have the sort of diligence to find the two that are going to cover for the other hundred.

[1015] Now, what is this done for your self -esteem, knowing that you have done well in this industry completely outside of ours.

[1016] I'll start with the example.

[1017] Every time Kristen and I go, I have the same pattern.

[1018] If we get invited the Golden Globes or the Academy Awards or whatever it is, leading up to it, I go, oh my God, I don't want to go to that thing.

[1019] They're all going to be going.

[1020] Why is that dude from punked here?

[1021] Who let him in?

[1022] This is what my voice in my head's telling me, right?

[1023] And then we go to these things and then it turns out like, oh, I know a lot of these people and they seem to like me. I'm pretty sure they like me on the way home.

[1024] I always go, oh, that was really fun.

[1025] on.

[1026] I think people liked me. I hope I remember that the next time we get invited, but I don't.

[1027] I go through the same process, right?

[1028] Why will he be?

[1029] We're 20 years deep now.

[1030] Like, you actually do know most of the people.

[1031] Like, you've got to be over that by now.

[1032] I am, I'm getting over that.

[1033] But I do imagine having succeeded in something outside of our thing would just make me feel a little more confident when I'm at those things.

[1034] Is that a part of your self -esteem now?

[1035] Or you go.

[1036] My thing was always as a backup career, case my acting thing fails, right?

[1037] And by the way, at some point, like a lot of, you age out and like, you know, I'm sure 50 % of the reason why I get any role is relative to how I look.

[1038] And when that goes, like, them what, right?

[1039] And, you know, we're both.

[1040] It seems to be sticking around.

[1041] I've got this receding hair line.

[1042] You know about it.

[1043] I told you all about it.

[1044] I didn't want to ask you about that because you've gone off of propitia.

[1045] Yeah, God.

[1046] I just completely off.

[1047] So risky of you.

[1048] I don't know what.

[1049] I want, can I, can I out us for this?

[1050] I just want to say that we, I'll just say I went to a doctor.

[1051] I had heard that there was this doctor who could give you a hair as thick as Brad Pitts and he would stab you in the head repeatedly with a syringe and he would inject, God knows what, you know, chicken egg serum or something.

[1052] And I was going to this guy and I was doing it for like two years or something.

[1053] And then finally I was like, what am I doing?

[1054] I'm going, this guy's jabbing my head with a needle.

[1055] Nothing's happening.

[1056] But I did do that there's this i i've participated in all in all of these things that anything well now i will i you i think we both went to this doctor i think i recommended the guy to you what are you talking about and then my my whole thing was remember i didn't like they would put a numbing spray on your head and then i got off on the fact that was like no numbing spray listen i felt i felt sissy enough to even be there getting this thing done i thought i the only bit of masculinity i could retain is that i'd go no numbing spray i've gone off of anything to retain so when I was, I started getting very concerned when I was about 25 that it was going.

[1057] Yeah.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] It's going.

[1062] And I'm 25.

[1063] I've got my, you know, I have to maintain.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] And so that's when I went on the avidart.

[1066] And then, and I started to go see the guy that we did the needle.

[1067] Just stab your head a million times.

[1068] And I was just like, in about, I think like five years ago or I was like, I can't, I can't do the guy.

[1069] You got to get up the tread now.

[1070] Like, I can't do the guy.

[1071] So I stopped doing the guy and I was like, oh, I'm hanging in there.

[1072] Right.

[1073] Right.

[1074] And then when I had kids, I didn't know what the side effects of this avidart stuff were relative to like having children.

[1075] And I was like, you know what?

[1076] I don't want to risk it.

[1077] I'm just So I stopped and I did really good for like a year.

[1078] And then it just now it's starting to like, you know.

[1079] It's thinning out a little bit.

[1080] But here's.

[1081] So what's the solution?

[1082] More hats or back on Avedar?

[1083] No, I'm not.

[1084] I'm just, you're never going to go back on.

[1085] I'm just kidding.

[1086] So here's what.

[1087] It's so reckless of you.

[1088] So here's what happened.

[1089] I'm still on it by the way.

[1090] I went in and I'd quit using it and I went into my doctor and my testosterone levels were like alarmingly low.

[1091] Uh -huh.

[1092] And it's because I'd quit using the stuff.

[1093] So this.

[1094] Oh, interesting, because it is a testosterone inhibitor, propitia and avidar.

[1095] Yeah, so it removes the DHT, which is a byproduct of testosterone, which actually kills the follicles.

[1096] So it removes it.

[1097] So your body, in response to that, makes more.

[1098] Makes more testosterone.

[1099] Oh, sure.

[1100] Because your body's using DHT for something.

[1101] Who knows?

[1102] We still don't know all this.

[1103] Right.

[1104] So your body starts dumping more and more testosterone.

[1105] So then you go off of it, right?

[1106] And your body goes, oh, I don't need all of this testosterone.

[1107] Yeah, I have tons of DHD.

[1108] It jumps your testosterone into the cellar, which then keeps your hair for really nice, really nice for like a year, right?

[1109] Because now you have drastically reduced testosterone levels.

[1110] Right, right, right.

[1111] So then gradually.

[1112] Your prostate's tiny and healthy.

[1113] And gradually your testosterone levels start to increase and then the hair starts to go.

[1114] So now I'm at the hair starting to go.

[1115] But I've actually become comfortable with that as well.

[1116] Oh, really?

[1117] Yeah, I'm just good with it.

[1118] You're so healthy.

[1119] Well, I got kids now.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] Well, that's what I was going to, I wanted to have.

[1122] ask you about because a lot of these like kind of existential crises that I've dealt with and you've dealt with in my my ego and my self -esteem, all these things.

[1123] I was attempting to elevate my own opinion of myself by a lot of outward kind of accomplishments.

[1124] And then to my surprise, this thing, having kids really gave me all the perspective I needed where I feel like I've just gotten so much happy over the last five years.

[1125] And your wife and my wife, and my wife, wife have done a couple movies together.

[1126] Well, I think they've done three movies together, but we were all down in Louisiana, in Orleans.

[1127] And you were a new father.

[1128] And I was so delighted to see what a great dad you are and how involved you are and that you're down there just to watch the kid so mom can work, which is why I'm down there too.

[1129] So it was really awesome to be sharing that same role.

[1130] And I could see that it was doing the same thing to you that it was doing to me. which was just like happiness, self -esteem, being of service.

[1131] Now I realize what my, if they're good, life's good.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] What would you say that these kids have done for you?

[1135] And how they made you kind of recalibrate what it is you're even after in life.

[1136] Well, so that's probably the biggest, the work life balance had to completely shift, right?

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] I've been a workaholic my entire life.

[1139] And I, if you leave me to my own devices, I'll work from the moment I wake up until the moment I fall.

[1140] sleep and I'll fall asleep working and and that's and I've lived that life for a fair amount of time now with kids I you know when Mila's shooting a film I don't work right so I legitimately go to wherever she is and wherever she's shooting move the whole family yeah set up the kids get them on a schedule get you know and I'm at home making sure they get fed make sure they go to bed at night make sure they wake up in the morning make sure the dress and cleaned and bubble and and that's a lot of fucking work oh yeah I mean that's That is like, that's a workaholics dream.

[1141] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1142] Because you can - Never ever stop.

[1143] You can service your kids all day long if you want to.

[1144] Mm -hmm.

[1145] And so -hmm.

[1146] And as I say, they're in a constant state of either creating a mess or I'm picking up the mess.

[1147] You know what I'm saying?

[1148] There's no homeal stasis.

[1149] There's no neutral.

[1150] None.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] And, and so for me, I think that the biggest thing with the kids has been now three years in learning how to back off a little bit and go, wait, I don't have to be there every second of every moment of every day.

[1153] In fact, it probably behooves them to spend time with other people occasionally and not have me picking up everything.

[1154] And so your daughter go to preschool?

[1155] She does.

[1156] Yeah, she does.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] And so that's been like a really good balancing function.

[1159] But also, I think just like it made me, it made me in work have to take a step.

[1160] back and go, where are the moments of work that I'm vital?

[1161] So what are the things that I can, that I can give up the responsibility for and give to somebody else to do?

[1162] It's almost like moving into like a CEO role of my work.

[1163] Delegating.

[1164] Yeah, where I'm delegating work to other folks to do that are things that I don't have to do and getting really comfortable with them doing it their way as opposed to them doing it my way.

[1165] Yes.

[1166] Because I can't micromanage it and oversee it.

[1167] And so I think I've become much more efficient with my work and much more effective with my work as a result of the kids.

[1168] And in a sense, like, have the confidence now that I go, whoa, if it doesn't really matter, I'm not going to do it because that's time I can be spending with my kids.

[1169] And to me, that's the biggest, like, eye over where you go, like, does this really matter?

[1170] Like, do I really give a shit about doing this thing that I'm doing right now?

[1171] Because I could be spending time with my kids.

[1172] Well, yeah, I think it right sizes all of your preoccupy, you know, all the things you think about or dream about or focus on or aim towards.

[1173] It really reduces the importance of those things in a very healthy way, I think.

[1174] Yeah, and whatever hobbies I've had.

[1175] Because I was weirdly afraid to have kids.

[1176] I think Kristen was too.

[1177] Because I was thinking, oh, well, this, all my career pursuits take up so much time.

[1178] I don't know how I have time for, and I haven't accomplished a lot of things I'm trying to accomplish.

[1179] So where on earth did these kids fit in?

[1180] And for me, it was ironic that I ended up doing way more stuff professionally since having kids than I did before having them, yet I just did it in a different way.

[1181] Yeah, I don't know how you direct a movie with kids.

[1182] Well, it was great.

[1183] I'll tell you what was great about that is we were shooting in the wintertime.

[1184] 95 % of the script was exterior.

[1185] So we shot while the sun was up and down.

[1186] And the sun goes down at 4 o 'clock.

[1187] So even during the whole production of chips, I put them to bed every single night.

[1188] I was at the Halloween party.

[1189] That's unbelievable.

[1190] And that was just a crazy blessing, something I would now know to design in advance.

[1191] Like, oh, I'm going to, it's all outside and I'm going to do it when there's no daylight and tough shit.

[1192] And we just need more days.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] But yeah, decisions like that that you learn to make.

[1195] I think it just shifts focus and it shifts priorities.

[1196] And the only thing that I've sacrificed relative to it is hobbies.

[1197] Yeah, yeah.

[1198] hobbies have gone to, like, pot.

[1199] Like, I can't wait until they're old enough to go snowboarding, right?

[1200] Yeah, like, to go fishing.

[1201] Lincoln rides a motorcycle already.

[1202] Yeah, there you go.

[1203] Yeah, because I need to do that.

[1204] Yeah, and I need to be with her, and I also need to be off -roading a lot.

[1205] Yeah, that's so.

[1206] She's got to join me. Yes.

[1207] So getting the kids to the age where they can actually, like, I don't golf, but I started to teach my daughter out of golf because, like, as sports go, I think, like, a lot of the sports that I do now in 10 years, I'm not going to be able to do it.

[1208] Oh, yeah.

[1209] Well, I have friends who golf, I'm like, are you fucking crazy?

[1210] See, if I told Kristen I was leaving on Saturday for three hours.

[1211] I think those guys are out there for five hours.

[1212] I know it's unbelievable.

[1213] I don't know how they do it.

[1214] She would never, ever, ever say that's cool.

[1215] And if she told me she was going to do something for five hours on Saturday, be like, fuck that out.

[1216] No. We did this together.

[1217] We made this mess together.

[1218] I can barely watch football.

[1219] Yeah, no, it can't be done.

[1220] You can't do it.

[1221] I was on fantasy football leagues before I had kids.

[1222] No way now.

[1223] I play, but I don't, I mean, I play based on, like, data.

[1224] I'm not even like watching it in.

[1225] And thank God, the Bears had an.

[1226] awful season because there was no chance I was watching a full game yeah like it was just like you know and you got the lion so there's no point in watching anyway so between our two team like that's the perfect like I watched the first three games because I get really and now it's playoffs and maybe I'll catch a game or two yeah I only get to see a game as if we go to friends house who also have kids and that dad's got more pull than I do and he's allowed to watch football all day so then I get to piggyback on the what are we doing wrong well look it is interesting I think you and I are both in a situation.

[1227] You, you not as much as me, but I got to say is for the male ego, like to be, to be married to someone who's very successful and works a lot and having to take a role that's maybe unconventional in the male, female dynamic.

[1228] Like my wife makes more money than me. And that's that.

[1229] Like, so I know if one of us has to stop working to do, it's logically would be me. And that's an interesting, I think ultimately I'm really grateful that it's that way because because I can't rest on my lawyers.

[1230] I can't be the dad's like, well, I'm paying for all this shit.

[1231] And that's why there's food on the table.

[1232] So I'm going golfing.

[1233] That's not happening in my house.

[1234] I am 50 -50 income family, 50 -50 parenting family.

[1235] And I still get away.

[1236] I probably, like for me to say I'm truly 50 -50 would do a disservice to my wife.

[1237] It's probably 60 -40.

[1238] But like.

[1239] And probably mine is two.

[1240] What do I know?

[1241] But it feels like I'm 50 -50.

[1242] But theoretically, I'm 50 -50.

[1243] But it is, it's so, Can you see yourself taking advantage a little bit?

[1244] If your wife did nothing, don't you feel like you could imagine myself going, well, I can't get up.

[1245] I can't get up because I got to fucking pay for all this shit, right?

[1246] I can't say that.

[1247] I can't say that either.

[1248] No, I don't have that car.

[1249] I would be like, fucking quit.

[1250] We'll be fine.

[1251] Your wife could say then quit because we'll be fine.

[1252] You could all live on her.

[1253] Yes.

[1254] And we can't.

[1255] So we can't.

[1256] And so we don't.

[1257] But it's actually like, it's a weird.

[1258] It's at first.

[1259] it's slightly demasculating in a weird in a weird way like you got to wrestle with it like you got to put some time into thinking about it it's not proactively emasculating but it but it but it is in a way because you have a frame of reference of of malehood that is your father and my father worked my mom worked too but my dad worked and he was probably making the most amount of money yeah for a for a period of time for sure yeah and i remember when my parents actually flipped where they were both working and my mom, I think, was making more than my dad, but I don't think the shift happened.

[1260] And then they got divorced because of it.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] Is that what happened?

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] I don't know if it was because of it, but I think that there was played a role.

[1265] But there's a weird thing that you go, you know, I don't have a male figure that I know and look up to that took on this role.

[1266] Yeah.

[1267] And so I'm inventing, I'm inventing the role as I go and, and, you know, rolling around in the Bjorn and getting confident with a kid on your chest is a different deal and it's a but i think well or christin regularly has to go like get them out of my space i'm doing an interview like i'm the i'm in that position that i only know from 50s housewives on tv where i've got to keep them away from mom so she can work sometimes i roll back you know i go back to iowa and there's in and we were just back for christmas and i have a couple of my cousins who have the traditional game going.

[1268] And a couple of my cousins where the guy's actually taking a different active role.

[1269] And so I think it's generational.

[1270] And I think it's only going to become increasingly generational.

[1271] But it's definitely, we don't have a role model for this.

[1272] That's true.

[1273] And so there was either the deadbeat dad or the other.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] There was no. And so learning on the fly, the 50 -50 household responsibility thing is a, it's a real thing.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] And I can, I can, when I'm, in self -pity mode, I can, it's very male.

[1278] It's like, this is bullshit.

[1279] I should be fucking golfing.

[1280] Well, especially when we got these asshole friends that are golfing.

[1281] We're like, why am I not golfing?

[1282] Like, hold on, I got to, I'm going to say, I'm about to ask permission to go fishing?

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] And it's all so for me intertwined with just money.

[1285] Like, because this occupies this huge space in my brain that's preposterous because either one of us is making plenty enough money for a family of four.

[1286] Sure.

[1287] Yet we need more.

[1288] We need, you know, whatever, again, I move the gold post every fucking time, you know, I need X amount and it's preposterous.

[1289] And I'm only putting myself through all this because I keep moving the goalpost.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] You know, having, being in a family with two largely ambitious people is a constant negotiation.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] And it's, it's this weird.

[1294] I went to a therapist once, and I was talking about a relationship.

[1295] Like an accident?

[1296] Like you thought you were walking into?

[1297] No, I was somebody, I got asked to go see a therapist with someone, and it was a relationship therapist.

[1298] And there was a weird thing that the therapist said, like, he laid it out and he was like, listen, that person that you're with is your number one.

[1299] And so if they're not okay with you doing something, then it's not okay.

[1300] Or if they, or, and so it was this, he phrased it much better than that in so much as that checking in and making sure that they're okay that you go do whatever it is that you're going to do is actually as important as anything that you're going to do.

[1301] And vice versa.

[1302] Yes.

[1303] But checking something off with somebody.

[1304] It feels emasculating.

[1305] In a weird way.

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] Because it's, I think.

[1308] Well, we're stuck with some pretty outdated conventions.

[1309] That's just tough shit.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] Yeah.

[1312] And so and so you learn it and you get really comfortable.

[1313] with it and then you start and you're from i'm from michigan and i'm from a blue color area of michigan and i think you and i've noticed we both have some like we have some strong masculinity things yeah like where i grew up like if you drove a fucking pickup truck with 44 inch mutters you were crushing yes and that's really what you need to do and you needed to lay a dude out behind kimar you need a lift kit on that zone those were the things if you hadn't been in a fight and won yes that was probably no one you needed to keep you fight until you won one that was it yeah so i i still have not shaken a lot of my like archaic kind of masculine you know the way i define whether i'm succeeding as a human is still way too masculine i found that playing a hyper masculine character that helps helps because i get it all out like i'm you know like cracking a beer at like you know on the show just really plays into like get it out on the screen and then come home and then and then actually and then be a patsy well when I was when I was directing modern let's call it modern when I was directing chips you know you're in a situation where when you're the director you your opinion is the number one opinion ultimately yeah like you're going to decide if you like that edit or you're going to decide if you like these costumes whatever it is and I remember while I was editing chips so that took seven months I would be driving home from Warner brothers and I'd have this fucking conversation with myself every drive home, which is you're going to walk in the door and you're not the director of this house.

[1314] And your opinion is not more valuable than anyone else's.

[1315] And that's how it is.

[1316] And you better get your head straight before you walk in the door because you can be insufferable to live with.

[1317] If you're used to, you have this persona during the day, then you come home and you got to really shift gears.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] Or I had to shift gears.

[1320] Well, on the show, I'm the executive producer of the show.

[1321] And when I sit, your opinion counts.

[1322] When I sit in my staff meetings for my investment fund.

[1323] I'm the general partner.

[1324] I'm, I am, I'm the, I'm the last line of defense for a yes or no on everybody's.

[1325] Everybody's.

[1326] You have veto.

[1327] You have veto power.

[1328] I'm being briefed and getting information and then making decisions based on the collective briefing, you know, and there is a, you know, collective decision making process, but at the end of the day, the buck stops.

[1329] You can, you can veto anything, right?

[1330] Yeah.

[1331] And so there's a week, the year is a full blown gear.

[1332] And by the way, my wife has the same thing.

[1333] Like when she's on a movie set, she's the star of the movie, right?

[1334] And so, or she runs her own production company.

[1335] And so when she's running her production company, she's key man number one in the production company.

[1336] And while there is, everybody has a say, she is.

[1337] And so we both come home.

[1338] And we're both out playing out.

[1339] A couple of Brahma bowls.

[1340] And we both talk about where we should eat dinner.

[1341] And we alpha out on each other.

[1342] And sometimes we'll, it'll just be like, or we're both so tired of making decisions that we want the other person to make the day.

[1343] You ever do the like, where are we going to eat, dance?

[1344] Yeah, that's, that's a rough one.

[1345] That's nightly.

[1346] What do you want to eat for us?

[1347] Yeah, yeah.

[1348] I don't, you know, I don't care.

[1349] She likes to cook and I like to order out.

[1350] I have all these, I have all these, like, vestigial, you know, like, growing up, we never ate out.

[1351] You know, we didn't go to restaurants.

[1352] So it was like.

[1353] Red Lobster on a celebrated night.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] In fact, we went to Red Lobster two times growing up.

[1356] It was both times my mom had left whatever stepdad we had.

[1357] And we would, like, go to the Sheridan Hotel and go to Red Lobster.

[1358] And I was like, oh, okay, we're leaving Rick's house.

[1359] I see what's going on.

[1360] Yeah, so I still have in my head, I have like, to me, the definition of success is like, you can eat out.

[1361] Whatever the fuck you want.

[1362] And so I still feel like that.

[1363] Why would we cook?

[1364] There's all these restaurants and we can afford it.

[1365] This is great.

[1366] So I finally explained, I was building furniture at our house.

[1367] We ordered a bunch of furniture online and I had to build it all over the holiday.

[1368] And I had to explain to me. I was like, you know how you like to cook?

[1369] Like how that's actually a thing for you When you enjoy doing that I like putting stuff together Yeah So this is my this is my version of cooking And you get to sit in that chair I get to eat your food You get to sit in this chair when I'm done And you can hang out on this picnic table And be super stoked And so we've we had this like great You know five years in like it was like It's sort of like mea copa on the like Building stuff Yes We have that like I'm managed And I'll bring it up all the time Well I'm managing the cars Like you don't ever think about Whether that thing's at an oil change or whatever.

[1370] That's on me. I go ahead.

[1371] And I do that once every three months.

[1372] So you go ahead and cook every night.

[1373] We're square.

[1374] It's great.

[1375] But I totally agree with you.

[1376] Like two things.

[1377] It was staying in hotels that had swimming pools.

[1378] Yes.

[1379] That was a very big.

[1380] That was a celebration.

[1381] Going to a restaurant or even McDonald's was like big time.

[1382] And so now any time where you can, you're like, ooh, let's put it up.

[1383] Every time I order a pizza, I think, made it.

[1384] I really do.

[1385] I'm like, I'll fucking put ham on it.

[1386] I'll put pepperoni.

[1387] I'm not even worried about what that is.

[1388] And the other one for me is ice cream.

[1389] Ice cream is so in that village camp.

[1390] Like going to Dairy Queen when I was a kid was the real, you know what?

[1391] I bought Dairy Queen because he loved it so much.

[1392] Oh, really?

[1393] I'm upset and there's Nary a Dairy Queen around here.

[1394] No. But I am obsessed with ice cream because that was like a privileged experience.

[1395] And so now I can't.

[1396] I'll ice cream virtually every night.

[1397] I think 90 % of the stuff I'm doing in life is really, I'm still trying to medicate whatever thing I wanted as an eight -year -old, you know, like I have all these cars because I didn't have a GT bike, and that's what I really wanted.

[1398] It's just, it's ridiculous.

[1399] And I never, I never can.

[1400] With the, with the, with the handlebars that spun all the way around.

[1401] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1402] If you did a rhoder on it.

[1403] Yeah.

[1404] Freestyle.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] And pegs on the back.

[1407] Sure, sure.

[1408] Yeah.

[1409] Yeah.

[1410] Did you have, you had a mongoose me too.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] I had a Caros were so bad ass.

[1413] Yeah, they really were white and red.

[1414] You know, oh, you know Andrew Panay.

[1415] So we, this producer, Andrew Panay, who's one of my best friends, I walk into his garage like a year ago and the garage door opens and I'm about to enter his house and he has a fucking brand new Chrome GT BMX bike.

[1416] And I go, what is going on with this bike?

[1417] He goes, bud, I know, right?

[1418] I saw it in a window.

[1419] I was like, that was the bike I wanted.

[1420] And we sat there.

[1421] I go, are you going to ride it?

[1422] He goes, no. And I'm like, and we just sat there staring at this chrome bike.

[1423] You didn't like jump on the pegs and like try to do some like no stance.

[1424] No, we stared at it like it was the fucking shrouded terrain.

[1425] I couldn't believe like what I was looking at.

[1426] It was as if it had been lit by a 10K.

[1427] It just looks so beautiful.

[1428] And I thought, I got to go.

[1429] When I go home, I got to order one of these bikes just to stare out of my garage, not even to ride.

[1430] Oh, this is the best.

[1431] I'm still, I'm still.

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] Now, you who dies with the most toys wins.

[1434] The last thing I want to ask you about is because you, have kids and I have kids, it's almost like for me, it kind of, you can't help but kind of go back through your own childhood because you have these kids and you're, I am constantly comparing like what their experiences to what mine was.

[1435] Like I'm always worried.

[1436] I'm like, Jesus Christ, they live in a house with a swimming pool.

[1437] They're from Hollywood.

[1438] What does that mean?

[1439] Like I have a hard time wrap my head around all that stuff.

[1440] But I don't think about parenting and like how much time I was getting and how hard my mom worked and unavailable and all these things.

[1441] And I was thinking about your story.

[1442] And I was thinking, I have to imagine, because you have a twin brother.

[1443] Yep.

[1444] And he had.

[1445] And an older sister.

[1446] And he had medical conditions when you were a kid.

[1447] And I have to imagine that that had to have taken up a ton of the time, attention, and resources growing up.

[1448] Yep.

[1449] Did it?

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] And then I can imagine also feeling super fucking guilty at the same time.

[1452] my brother was born with mild cerebral palsy right and so he was always it was always cardiomyopathy yeah he had a cardiomyopathy when he was 12 and then had a heart transplant um and it was yeah it he he took up a ton of energy because of that yeah um in very early which is probably before i could kind of record it right and then when he went through it when we when he had the heart transplant that was uh that was like and it was right around right after my parents got a divorce and so it was like it was like there was like right around the same time and so that was there was definitely a ton of energy that was going his way relative to that yeah and i think like so it did two things that did you feel guilty that here you guys are twins and he's going through all this stuff and you're not or were you just like fuck this when i was a kid i didn't know right i just had my best friend that was with me and i didn't even really recognized that he had anything less than I had when I was a kid.

[1453] And then it wasn't until we started like playing basketball and things like that.

[1454] And I would kind of always win.

[1455] Right.

[1456] And it was like this sort of litmus of, you know, and then, and then I, I became extremely defensive of him to protect him.

[1457] Like, so he would get in a fight.

[1458] Because you guys would enter, you entered school together, right?

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] So we're in the same grade, the same way, the whole way, in same class.

[1461] I feel like that's a ton of pressure.

[1462] And so.

[1463] We had like, you know, when he, like, I remember in junior high, like, he was, like, started problems with the wrong kid and the kid, like, came after him after school and was going to fight him.

[1464] And I knew that if he fought him, like, if he did hit him anywhere near his chest, like it would blow open because he was.

[1465] And I was like, all right, I got to fight this kid for him.

[1466] You know, it was like that kind of.

[1467] And that was my mentality.

[1468] But there was also, I think the most significant thing that happened is when I was like 20.

[1469] three or four and he said to me uh you know every time that you feel sorry for me you make me less and he said the only life i've ever known is this one and so don't make it less than than mine wow and i was like whoa like that's just it was a huge was a massive wake -up call because my whole life i realized at that moment that i felt bad yeah and felt sorry and guilty but my whole life for the fact that my brother was going through this and I wasn't.

[1470] And so it flipped a switch for me relative to not just my brother, but to everyone.

[1471] All these people you were maybe.

[1472] No, to everyone, right?

[1473] So in any, like if I see a homeless person on the side of the road, feeling sorry for that person makes them less and in their life.

[1474] Like I can have compassion and I can have care, but it's very, compassion and care is very different than feeling sorry for someone well in a sense it right it like feeling sorry for someone is it is a is a nice way of saying pity it is yeah I have these debates with Kristen and it's and it was a weird shift in the way that I see the world and see people and and I and you know at the same time I always I had this like because we were kind of lower middle class I had this weird um growing up this like rich people were in some ways evil.

[1475] Yeah, yeah.

[1476] Me too.

[1477] I have a huge class warfare.

[1478] I can't shake.

[1479] I had this issue with rich people.

[1480] Yeah, me too.

[1481] And so then becoming.

[1482] They were the ones looking down on us.

[1483] Yeah, as if it was like looking.

[1484] I felt like they were.

[1485] You felt like it was.

[1486] And then now that I have some wealth, I have shifted a perspective there as well where I like, I'm not, I don't look down on anyone.

[1487] I'm like, this is amazing.

[1488] Yeah, yeah.

[1489] Wherever, you know, And whoever's life is whatever it, whatever it is.

[1490] If I think I'm better than you, it certainly has nothing to do with how much money I have.

[1491] Ever.

[1492] Yeah, yeah.

[1493] And so there's this, there's, there's a different, there's a level of empathy that I think I developed as a person because of the situation my brother had and the obstacles that he faced that I didn't.

[1494] And now a level of respect that I have that's relative to it.

[1495] And at the same time, I realized from a very young age, from having a twin, that everything in my life is to be shared.

[1496] And then it's better when it's shared.

[1497] And so that was another, like, just functional sort of thing that I've drawn from it.

[1498] And so, like, probably, yeah, certainly like one of the most impactful things in my life.

[1499] And relative to my kids, I was actually thinking about this just a couple of weeks ago.

[1500] It was like, the trauma of my brother's heart transplant was so influential to my life and so influential to who I am as a person, I wonder what their trauma will be.

[1501] Yeah, yeah.

[1502] Because I was just going to say, I have to imagine that your desire for attention, or certainly my desire for attention, was middle child, way overextended mother.

[1503] Like, I just fucking, I didn't get it.

[1504] I needed it.

[1505] I needed it.

[1506] And I've been on a endless pursuit for attention ever since.

[1507] And I have to imagine that you are on a similar journey.

[1508] I did a play in junior high and people laughed.

[1509] Uh -huh.

[1510] And people applauded when I did something.

[1511] And I was like, what?

[1512] Yeah.

[1513] Well, they actually looked at you on an erupted for probably a half hour, which was probably foreign.

[1514] It was just like that, just having that undivided attention that was just yours was like, whoa.

[1515] A drug, right?

[1516] Yeah.

[1517] Super drug.

[1518] for sure because it didn't matter in you know same thing with sports like playing football like having that undivided like like it was there's there was a power in that yeah feels good but I agree I think what on earth's going to be the engine for my kids I certainly don't want to I could have done without having to come to all these conclusions I certainly there were a lot of years where I was super fucked up because I didn't understand those things and I certainly don't want those aspects but I do wonder what on earth is going to motivate these two.

[1519] Yeah.

[1520] And how, and are you going to protect them in that moment or are you going to let them experience it so they have an understanding of it?

[1521] And some coping skills.

[1522] And some coping skills.

[1523] Like I'm, you know, my kids are living in a really privileged life.

[1524] Like, unbelievably privileged life.

[1525] And they don't even know it.

[1526] Yeah.

[1527] And they'll never know it.

[1528] Because this will be the only one that they know.

[1529] Well, I don't know about you, but I spent so much time worrying about, oh my god what is it going to be like for them to grow up with famous parents with people stopping us out and about and i became so protective of this and so off putting to people when we're out in public you know and at a certain point recently it occurred to me they don't know another life they think everyone's parents are famous this is just life on planet earth for them they don't feel like there some compromises happened or whatever it's just their fucking life it's not nearly what I was fearful it was going to be.

[1530] It's just a matter of fact.

[1531] Yeah.

[1532] So whenever we're with our kids, we, and people ask us to take a picture, I always say we don't take pictures when we're with our kids.

[1533] That's what we say.

[1534] And so now my daughter.

[1535] Unless you ask, then we would.

[1536] Now my daughter goes, no, we don't take pictures.

[1537] Like now she says that, which is really weird as well.

[1538] Yeah, it's going to be weird.

[1539] You can't win because here's my theory.

[1540] The struggle for them is going to be camping, right?

[1541] And I'm going to take them camping a lot.

[1542] Uh -huh.

[1543] Just because I want them to be really resourceful.

[1544] And I want to teach them how to be resourceful.

[1545] Because as long as they know how to do when they don't have things, they know how to be resourceful, then it come to circumstances.

[1546] Because my kids are not getting like big.

[1547] I'm not setting up a trust for them.

[1548] We'll end up giving our money away to me to charity and to various things.

[1549] And Dax.

[1550] My off -road fund.

[1551] And so our kids, if my kids want to start a business that, and they have a good business plan, I'll invest in it.

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] But I'm not, they're not getting trust.

[1554] They're not going to get.

[1555] So hopefully they'll be motivated to have what they had.

[1556] Or some version of what they had.

[1557] Or conversely, what might be very liberating and cool is that they had all the shit you and I coveted.

[1558] And they didn't give a shit about it.

[1559] And it wasn't that fun.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] Don't be really happy having them.

[1562] I don't know.

[1563] The 10 years I had the one bedroom apartment in Santa Monica, they were great.

[1564] They were a fucking blast.

[1565] I was in love with Brie.

[1566] We had friends.

[1567] Everything was fine.

[1568] I would much rather have this.

[1569] problem than the converse problem.

[1570] Because I, I, my, my biggest fear in the, in the world right now is that we grew up in an age of upward, the potential upward mobility.

[1571] Mm -hmm.

[1572] And we had that.

[1573] That was given to us by our surroundings.

[1574] Mm -hmm.

[1575] And I'm, and I'm becoming increasingly fearful that the next generation isn't going to have the opportunity to upward mobility that we had.

[1576] Yeah.

[1577] Based on a lot of social dynamics.

[1578] Well, there's even an article.

[1579] on article last week that was like, should you even send your kids to medical school?

[1580] Because AI is going to be doing 90 % of the medical work by the time our kids would graduate from medical school, which is crazy.

[1581] Well, yeah, I had this.

[1582] I was going to hook my echo up to my coffee pot.

[1583] Uh -huh.

[1584] And then I thought, I thought about this this morning.

[1585] I was going downstairs and I was like, you know, I usually walk in.

[1586] I tell the echo to turn the lights on.

[1587] And then it's my, it's pretty fairly automated and then I asked you know for my daily briefing and then I and I have this sort of routine with the robot and I was going to I was going to hook the robot up to the coffee pot so that when I walked down I asked to turn the lights on I would say good morning and then it would just start brewing my coffee if I set up the night before and and and what I realized as I thought about doing this this morning was what would I do in the morning?

[1588] Yeah if I'm not even yeah yeah You just rendered yourself obsolete.

[1589] I, so what, and I thought, like, what would I do if I'm, if I, if my first thing I did in the morning wasn't making coffee.

[1590] Like, what the, what would I do?

[1591] I think they're going to have this.

[1592] What do I do problem?

[1593] Well, Sam Harris had this guy, Yovalon, who wrote Homo Deus and Homo sapien.

[1594] Fantastic books.

[1595] Yeah, they're so great.

[1596] And, you know, and, you know, and Yovil says that we will very soon, 90 % of the people will be, unemployed, it'll be called the useless class because AI and robotics will be doing everything and people will get a stipend from the government.

[1597] Yeah, that's what they'll live on.

[1598] That's all fine and dandy.

[1599] My thought is, oh shit, our kids are going to live through the transition to that where you have 30 % unemployment.

[1600] It's fine if we have 90 % unemployment and everything's being done for us and you get a stipend.

[1601] But when there's 30 % unemployment, that's like fucking civil war time that our kids are going to live through.

[1602] So I think about seven years ago, I heard for the first time, I don't remember who said it.

[1603] Somebody said, In the future, people are they going to have jobs where they tell robots what to do or they're being told what to do by robots.

[1604] Which job do you want?

[1605] And it's stuck with me and I repeated it a thousand times as if it's my own.

[1606] And I truly believe it.

[1607] I don't think it's that far off.

[1608] Like there's a bummer with autonomous vehicles.

[1609] A wonderful thing where like people don't dive driving.

[1610] A bummer because driving's really liberating.

[1611] But the humongous industries based around driving is.

[1612] And these, these jobs are gone.

[1613] So having, raising kids that have the capacity to socially relate with others really, really well and empathize and have like all of the sort of soft skills like just nailed.

[1614] I think is a key component to that, like just like crushing on soft skills like all day long.

[1615] Yeah, yeah.

[1616] And then and then and then and then learning how to code so they can have a job telling a computer what to do.

[1617] Right.

[1618] I think that that's like, I think that's key.

[1619] Yeah.

[1620] Like I, and I, and I, I, like, started my daughter's three.

[1621] And I've started explaining things.

[1622] I feel like we'll still have entertainers.

[1623] That's what I'm holding out for.

[1624] Yeah.

[1625] Yes.

[1626] Yes.

[1627] Because people will have a lot of spare time.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] That's right.

[1630] They'll need to be.

[1631] You got to have sex with someone when you go into your VR world.

[1632] Well, didn't you hear about this robot that you can now have sex with a robot?

[1633] Oh, really?

[1634] Yeah, there's a robot that people can have sex.

[1635] Oh, I would love to try that.

[1636] My argument was that it would probably be much better with VR.

[1637] VR and a haptic than actually having sex with a robot.

[1638] But the question that was at the table, this is our New Year's conversation, was is it cheating if you have sex with a robot?

[1639] Or is that just masturbation?

[1640] No, no, no, no. Yeah, it's masturbation.

[1641] Kristen can have a fucking robot boyfriend.

[1642] That's so easy for me to answer.

[1643] You've just so simply qualified it for yourself.

[1644] Yeah, I could hardly care.

[1645] Anyways, I thank you so much for coming.

[1646] I have throughout the 14 years we've known each other whenever I get a chance to talk to people about you.

[1647] I always say, you know, whatever your opinion of this guy is, I've met a lot of people in my life.

[1648] I never met someone that works harder.

[1649] It's a super, super admirable quality you have.

[1650] Thanks.

[1651] I believe you deserve everything you have.

[1652] And I love you and thank you for giving me everything I have.

[1653] I love you.

[1654] Thank you for asking me to be one of your early guests in your show because I know it's going to be ridiculously successful.

[1655] Thank you.

[1656] Can I be your first guest?

[1657] Yeah, absolutely.

[1658] So are you going to I might release three at a time.

[1659] Oh, okay.

[1660] I want to be like an inaugural.

[1661] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1662] Like the space shuttle thing.

[1663] Well, I think you're a bit of good luck because you were like an inaugural Twitter user and all these other things.

[1664] I think that I think you're like a harbinger of good things.

[1665] I was at first.

[1666] No, but you were like first to a million, right?

[1667] Yes.

[1668] Yeah, yeah.

[1669] Don't fake it like you weren't.

[1670] Yes.

[1671] You crushed it.

[1672] Be CNN.

[1673] Be CNN.

[1674] Is that a bunch of Czech kids in the Czech Republic hacking for me. All right.

[1675] I hacked it like the Russians said our election.

[1676] Okay, love you.

[1677] Bye, bye.

[1678] Stay tuned if you'd like to hear my good friend and producer Monica Padman point out the many errors in the podcast you just heard.

[1679] What's up, guys?

[1680] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[1681] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[1682] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[1683] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[1684] And I don't mean just friends.

[1685] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[1686] So follow.

[1687] Watch and listen to Baby.

[1688] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[1689] Monica.

[1690] Hi.

[1691] You've listened to Ashton and I. Yes.

[1692] And how to go?

[1693] Pretty good.

[1694] There was not a lot to fact check.

[1695] Oh, that's kind of a bummer.

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] I would have thought with two know -at -alls of he and I's stature that there would have been a ton of facts being rattled off.

[1698] Yeah, some.

[1699] When we speak off the record, we're just trying to wow each other.

[1700] other with numbers that are totally bogus bogus unsubstantiated you talked a little bit about Scientology's perspective on drugs okay and I have what Scientology .org says about drugs.

[1701] Oh, okay great.

[1702] Okay, I'm going to read it.

[1703] Scientologists do use prescribed medical drugs when physically ill and also rely on the advice and treatment of medical doctors.

[1704] Scientologists do not take street drugs or mind -altering psychotropic drugs.

[1705] Oh, yes.

[1706] Psychotropics.

[1707] They consider drugs cause extremely damaging effects on a person, physically, mentally and spiritually, specifically that drugs decrease awareness and hinder abilities.

[1708] They are a, quote, solution to some other problem, but ultimately prove an even bigger problem.

[1709] That's straight from the Scientology's mouth.

[1710] Straight from the source.

[1711] Yeah.

[1712] And I think I had claimed that they, that drugs make your.

[1713] environment dangerous.

[1714] You did.

[1715] That's exactly what you did.

[1716] And then he had mentioned some fat.

[1717] Again, I would have to find a thing, but they do, they do give kids like a little book on hygiene.

[1718] I've seen it.

[1719] And there is kind of a generalized like, you know, be cognizant of your environment vibe.

[1720] Sure.

[1721] Which I dig.

[1722] Well, they have a lot of people, I'm sure they have a lot of naysayers they encounter in their life.

[1723] So they do have to sort of be conscious of their environment and who they're putting in and what's around them.

[1724] Sure, sure, sure.

[1725] Right?

[1726] Yeah.

[1727] And who's a suppressive person, an SP?

[1728] Yeah, an SP.

[1729] Yeah.

[1730] I'm friends with a ton of Scientologist and I'm always nervous they're going to label me an SP and we can't be friends anymore.

[1731] But thus far it hasn't happened.

[1732] Really?

[1733] Yeah.

[1734] What do you have to do?

[1735] Well, I did ask a guy who had left the church and I said, you know, am I dancing on razor blades if I want to?

[1736] Because I'm just curious, right?

[1737] So we'll be in the car.

[1738] And like I was on a road trip with Erica Christensen, who's very vocally and openly a Scientologist.

[1739] And now, you know, I'll just start kind of asking her like, you know, why is it that you don't have access to all the literature or scripture?

[1740] Like the Bible is the Bible.

[1741] They give it to any Christian.

[1742] Here it is.

[1743] There's no, you know, you don't have to obtain a certain level to then.

[1744] There's no withholding.

[1745] Yes.

[1746] And then further, I was curious, and this is my kind of my issue with Catholicism is everyone's working off this document, the Bible, and how on earth does the priest have more info than anyone else?

[1747] The only info to have is in this one book.

[1748] So this dude is, it would be as if you were in a book club and one guy knew more about Ketra and the Rye than anyone else.

[1749] I just don't buy that.

[1750] You all have the same book.

[1751] You can read it.

[1752] There can't be an authority on it as long as you can read.

[1753] And I was kind of challenging that.

[1754] But in doing that, I started getting nervous because I love and adore Erica, and I certainly don't want to step over a line and get labeled an SP.

[1755] So I asked this guy who had left the church.

[1756] And he basically told me, whether he's right or wrong, the only people that are really run a risk of being labeled an SP are people who are in the church, then leave, then start proselytizing against it.

[1757] Got it.

[1758] Again, this would require yet another fact check round.

[1759] Here we are.

[1760] Fact check part too.

[1761] This could be an endless thing, right?

[1762] It could be just a voice.

[1763] of, yeah, okay.

[1764] Okay, so then you mentioned a story.

[1765] You talked about a story where Danny Masterson was under the influence while driving you.

[1766] Okay, but from my perspective.

[1767] From your perspective.

[1768] Yeah, yeah.

[1769] I mean, I'd seen them have cocktails and then we got in a car.

[1770] That seems pretty conclusive.

[1771] That's not really your perspective.

[1772] That's just the truth, probably.

[1773] He may see it differently.

[1774] So then we talked, so then you mentioned the statute of limitations.

[1775] So I looked up what the statute of limitations is.

[1776] For drunk driving.

[1777] Criminal DUI offenses on criminal DUI offenses.

[1778] The statute of limitations for a misdemeanor DUI is generally 18 months from the date of offense.

[1779] Oh.

[1780] And the statute of limitations for a felony DUI is generally three years from.

[1781] Oh, so either or either way he is so unclear.

[1782] He's fine.

[1783] You can talk about it all you want.

[1784] Oh, good, good.

[1785] I feel far less morally.

[1786] Intriminating.

[1787] Yeah, just less perplexed.

[1788] Um, okay.

[1789] And then this isn't a fact check, but I just wanted to say, because Ashton refers to a book, The Gene.

[1790] Oh, uh -huh.

[1791] And I, um, I just wanted to say that that's written by Sadartha Mukerjee.

[1792] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1793] We've heard him on, um, Sam Harris.

[1794] Yeah, he's kind of like the godfather of, of, of cancer research currently.

[1795] Yeah.

[1796] Yeah.

[1797] Oh, I wish I would have realized that when we were talking because we both heard said Arthur talked quite extensively on that topic.

[1798] Yeah, exactly.

[1799] So I just wanted to say that in case anyone wanted to buy it.

[1800] And purchase it.

[1801] And I did a little reading on it and it looks good.

[1802] It's interesting.

[1803] Well, if you've written a book, that's good enough to get you invited on to Sam Harris's podcast.

[1804] You're probably...

[1805] They're doing something right.

[1806] Yeah, you're saying something pretty smart.

[1807] Yeah, probably.

[1808] Okay.

[1809] And then you mentioned, you talked about Tom Arnold.

[1810] having, dating in his late life, having a C -PAC machine.

[1811] Yes.

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] And so I wanted to clarify what that was in case people didn't know what that was.

[1814] C -Pap machine.

[1815] C -Pap.

[1816] C -P.

[1817] Oh, and I'm saying C -Pack.

[1818] I wondered if you were saying that if I heard it wrong.

[1819] Well, you know, you've known me now for years.

[1820] I mispronounce almost everything.

[1821] We all do.

[1822] No, no. That's why I'm here.

[1823] You have really good diction.

[1824] So, yeah.

[1825] As does Bell.

[1826] Bell almost, she says every word.

[1827] Almost exactly as intended in the Webster Dictionary.

[1828] Yeah.

[1829] But this is to treat sleep apnea, right?

[1830] Yes.

[1831] This is a treat sleep wapne.

[1832] Yeah, it's to treat sleep apnea.

[1833] And it stands for a continuous positive airway pressure machine.

[1834] Yeah, and it provides some.

[1835] And it's a cumbersome unit because my father had one.

[1836] Yeah, it is.

[1837] It is.

[1838] I'm sure they're getting smaller and smaller.

[1839] It's very loud.

[1840] It's loud.

[1841] And if you are a man of means and can afford the nice, the Rolls Royce of CPAPs, they have ones that also put moisture in there.

[1842] They're kind of like a humidifier.

[1843] So then that's yet another engine and holding tank and all that stuff.

[1844] What would be your reaction if you hooked up with a guy and then you invited him to spend the night?

[1845] And then he said, let me just grab something.

[1846] on my trunk and then he brought him.

[1847] Would you find it endearing?

[1848] Yeah, I would.

[1849] Yeah, because you're a good person.

[1850] I'm okay.

[1851] But yeah, I would find that cute.

[1852] It is pretty cute.

[1853] It's a pretty vulnerable move.

[1854] My room's small.

[1855] I would rather die in my sleep of, I would rather stop breathing in my sleep on a first date than bring my CPAP machine out.

[1856] Or maybe you just don't sleep that night.

[1857] You just stay up all night long, staring at her.

[1858] For the first two or three months.

[1859] Yeah.

[1860] Um, okay, what, so, uh, you guys also talked about the happiest baby on the block book.

[1861] Uh -huh.

[1862] You discussed the five S's and no one could remember the last S. Wait, can I try it again now?

[1863] Uh -huh.

[1864] Say them all, all five of them.

[1865] Okay.

[1866] Sucking, swaddling, swaying, shushing, and, um, sucking, swaddling, swaying, shushing, and, um, sucking, swaddling, swaying, shushing.

[1867] Fuck, I don't know.

[1868] What is it?

[1869] Okay.

[1870] Swaddle, side stomach position.

[1871] Oh.

[1872] That's the missing one.

[1873] I totally forgot that.

[1874] Shushing, swinging, sucking.

[1875] Okay.

[1876] Right.

[1877] Now you know.

[1878] I know that you're not going to have any more.

[1879] Also could be applied on a first date.

[1880] Harvey Carp?

[1881] Is that the name?

[1882] Yeah.

[1883] Okay.

[1884] And then I wanted to talk a little bit about the hair procedure that you and Ash, and both did.

[1885] I found a little information on that.

[1886] Well, even I asked that doctor, what the fuck are you injecting into my scalp?

[1887] And he wouldn't tell me. It was a proprietary situation.

[1888] He didn't want the secret serum to be known.

[1889] Because I think you labeled it a chicken egg serum on the podcast.

[1890] What does that even mean?

[1891] I don't know.

[1892] You tell me. So I have a question.

[1893] When you went, did they dry your blood?

[1894] No. Oh, so this must be an advance.

[1895] version that I was, is that I looked up.

[1896] Again, I think it was pretty clear.

[1897] I think it was probably hocus, focus.

[1898] No, this is a real thing.

[1899] I found a lot of information on it, actually.

[1900] Okay.

[1901] It's called PRP, platelet -rich plasma.

[1902] Does that sound right?

[1903] That sounds way more high -tech than what I think I was getting.

[1904] So maybe they've just evolved since maybe you were an early adopter.

[1905] Oh, maybe.

[1906] Yeah.

[1907] But it's a stem cell treatment.

[1908] Oh, really?

[1909] Yeah.

[1910] Well, now I'm excited that I should.

[1911] look into that because that sounds legit.

[1912] They draw blood.

[1913] They spin it.

[1914] They put it through a centrifuge separation process.

[1915] And then you get this plasma.

[1916] And then they apply that plasma to the scalp.

[1917] And yeah, they use like a. Oh, PRP.

[1918] Is that what you said?

[1919] Yeah.

[1920] So I have had that on my wrist.

[1921] Oh.

[1922] Yeah.

[1923] And you've had it on your head.

[1924] Ricky Glassman's a big proponent of it for his knees from playing basketball.

[1925] And he recommended it might be beneficial for my wrist because of my arthritis.

[1926] And it wasn't for me, which is not to say it wouldn't be for you.

[1927] Yeah.

[1928] PRP.

[1929] And did they stab you?

[1930] They used like a little machine with needles.

[1931] They drew a bunch of blood.

[1932] And then, yeah, they put it in a centerfuge.

[1933] And then I guess we had plasma.

[1934] And then he also put some stem cells in there too that he had gotten.

[1935] And yeah, and then just kind of sprayed it all over my joint.

[1936] And we made it into a paste.

[1937] No, no, no, no. It was in a syringe.

[1938] Oh, okay.

[1939] But it was far less than what I had donated, blood -wise.

[1940] And then he got into those joints with a very long needle and was just, to me, haphazardly squirting that plasmol in the joint.

[1941] And while it was happening, I was like, I don't know.

[1942] Well, maybe.

[1943] And then it turns out.

[1944] I'm just generally a little skeptical.

[1945] I will try everything, but I'm skeptical while I'm doing it.

[1946] Got it.

[1947] Anyway, that's, I think, what was happening to you.

[1948] It wasn't because I didn't.

[1949] I never gave blood.

[1950] Well, maybe they used something else because they didn't have blood at that time.

[1951] Well, if they used blood, he was probably like voodoo style cutting a chicken's neck in the back.

[1952] See, this is where the chicken, this is where your chicken idea comes from.

[1953] You mentioned you that you write an article that said, that talked about how we don't even really need to send kids to medical school.

[1954] Oh, yeah.

[1955] Yeah.

[1956] And was that in the New York Times?

[1957] I found an article that was that exact thing.

[1958] And I think maybe it was that.

[1959] No, it was in, it was in Yovil's book, Homodias.

[1960] The guy who wrote.

[1961] No, I know.

[1962] You talked about that.

[1963] But then you said you also read an article recently that had mentioned like we don't even need to really send our kids to medical school anymore because like robots are doing it.

[1964] doing all the diagnostic work and stuff.

[1965] Well, I thought I was referencing the article about the psychiatrist, but that was in something else.

[1966] Anyways, maybe I was just lying.

[1967] I don't remember reading an article.

[1968] I think it's really from reading Homo Deus that I have that.

[1969] Okay, well, there is an article.

[1970] Because he talks about Big Blue, not Big Blue, the new IBM computer that's replaced Big Blue has a cute name.

[1971] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[1972] No. Oh, well, IBM's got an AI computer that has a cute name.

[1973] And there was even a 60 minutes on this.

[1974] they gave it to these oncologists and they started going through all these files in very rapid fashion and then the computer started spitting out diagnoses.

[1975] Okay, this will be totally off, but it was like 80%, let's just say.

[1976] And then they said that the rate of accuracy of oncologists is 50%.

[1977] So already the IBM computer is vastly more.

[1978] Is that what the article you found says?

[1979] Yeah, it's called, well, robots take our children's jobs.

[1980] And it was in the New York Times.

[1981] It's by a man named Alex Williams, who.

[1982] Suspiciously.

[1983] Is married to this blogger that I follow.

[1984] Uh -huh.

[1985] And it's interesting because I only knew that I started reading the article and he mentions his kids' names at the top of the article.

[1986] Okay.

[1987] And then I just put two and two together that that is those, he must be married to this woman.

[1988] Who's the woman?

[1989] Why don't you plug her?

[1990] It's called Cup of Joe is the, is the blog.

[1991] Okay, so her name is Joe.

[1992] Oh, okay, great.

[1993] Yeah.

[1994] Okay.

[1995] And, but I got kind of weirded out when that happened because I was like, oh my God, I just put all this information.

[1996] I know about these people and I don't.

[1997] Yeah.

[1998] Really, but it's like there's a weird thing.

[1999] There's a weird disconnect.

[2000] A little bit of voyeur.

[2001] Yeah.

[2002] I feel like I know too much about something I shouldn't know.

[2003] Right.

[2004] Anyway, that made me feel weird.

[2005] And did he say medical was one of the top ones that?

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] It says, you know, people want to make, you know, encourage their kids to become radiologist.

[2008] That's a very good job.

[2009] You make a lot of money doing that.

[2010] Wait, is it arteries that is the robot you were talking about?

[2011] No. Okay.

[2012] It has a very anapomorphized name.

[2013] Is that the right word?

[2014] Anthropomorphized.

[2015] Yeah, it's like Haley.

[2016] Yeah, gale.

[2017] Mikey.

[2018] Mikey, the new IBM super.

[2019] Mikey's cute God damn it I want to see the name of that supercomputer But yeah There's a startup Called arteries Which is just one example That has a program That can do all this MRI In 15 seconds Compared to 45 minutes That a human takes So And same with surgeons And you know It's yeah It's just saying that These jobs are going to become obsolete Yeah Obsolete So don't Please don't send you Watson's its name I just looked it up on my phone.

[2020] I cheated.

[2021] It's cute, right?

[2022] Yeah, I like that.

[2023] I'm assuming that's a reference to Sherlock Holmes.

[2024] Yeah, Watson had a lot of info.

[2025] What else do we have?

[2026] Okay, so then you also said Eval Harari's book.

[2027] By the way, as I explore deeper into Watson, it's not named after Watson from whatever we just said.

[2028] Sherlock Holmes.

[2029] it's named after IBM's first CEO, industrialist Thomas J. Watson.

[2030] And, you know, well, no, I was going to say maybe he was named after him, but no, that's a last name.

[2031] Okay, continue.

[2032] Sorry, I've really derailed your...

[2033] It's not as cute.

[2034] It's certainly not.

[2035] No. Okay.

[2036] Eval Harari's book.

[2037] Oh, yeah.

[2038] You called it Homo sapiens and the book is just called Sapiens.

[2039] Oh, okay, good.

[2040] That's great to know for people who might want to order.

[2041] It's a great book.

[2042] Very good.

[2043] He's also on Sam Harris's podcast.

[2044] We're really here to promote Sam Harris's podcast.

[2045] We're trying to do the layman's version.

[2046] But that episode is called Reality and the Imagination.

[2047] If anyone's interested.

[2048] Oh, yeah.

[2049] And heading over to Sam Harris's, waking up with Sam Harris.

[2050] Very fascinating.

[2051] Yeah, yeah.

[2052] Especially when he gets into what we will do in the future when 90 % of the population is unemployed.

[2053] Correct.

[2054] That part was really funny.

[2055] fascinating um okay last thing yep uh you guys discussed robots sexual intercourse with robots and i found some information okay some interesting information i'm just going to read this okay okay this is from nbc news okay this is on a bridge dot com you haven't done any um any editing this is going to be straight yep okay this is no paraphrasing nope yep um okay it says it'll be a while before these robots really look or act like people, but the sex toy industry worth billions of dollars globally is primed for penetration by robots.

[2056] One of the early entries into this market is an animatronic head name Harmony, another interesting cute name, that's infused with artificial intelligence to give it a personality and the ability to learn about its human partner.

[2057] Oh, boy.

[2058] Harmony will connect to the silicone body of a real doll, a life -sized sex doll that's been around for 20 years.

[2059] A flesh bot?

[2060] Uh -huh.

[2061] The first sex robots won't be able to caress, grab or thrust against their human lovers, but more intelligent, more mobile, and more realistic robots will soon become available.

[2062] Let me just say that when those things are available and they're affordable, I will 100 % do it, mostly to see, to confirm my suspicion that I'm really only interested in sex insofar as, uh, that I'm being desired.

[2063] I think that's the big appeal for me it seems it's clearly when you read these sexual harassment uh details that some guys are getting off on much different things power that's different yeah um but i am only in it for like approval and desireability so i'm just trying to imagine uh if it would be ego inflating to have a robot desire you yeah it feels weird like like if my laptop liked me a ton and when i opened it up it was like thank god you're back i don't feel like I don't know you I don't know I guess if they could if they could perfect that the interface in the AI in a way that it was organically and believably telling you things like you're the best I've ever had I couldn't live without this then I think it would be pretty exciting mm -hmm I wonder and I am very pro people having sex with robots even when they're married and monogamous even if even if even if these robots, like, know you?

[2064] Sure, absolutely.

[2065] Even still.

[2066] If Kristen had a robot that she fucked, you know, a few times a week, she enjoyed that.

[2067] I just can't imagine seeing that differently than her getting a deep tissue massage she liked.

[2068] Oh, but what if she enjoyed the company of this robot so much that she was like, I'm not going to watch the movie tonight with you because I'm just going to go into the other bedroom with harmony.

[2069] Well, yeah, and I have any very easy answer for that.

[2070] If this thing starts taking away from my needs, then that's an issue.

[2071] Yeah.

[2072] But they might.

[2073] I think all these things, all these jealousy issues, you're avoiding what the real, the real question is, is are my needs being met or not?

[2074] That's pretty much the only thing you're entitled to ask for in a relationship.

[2075] So if my needs are being met and she's, you know, quietly without me knowing fucking this robot six times a week, who gives this shit?

[2076] I don't care.

[2077] Yeah, I agree.

[2078] But I just mean if they get more and more intelligent, they may become more and more likely.

[2079] Yeah.

[2080] Well, okay, then that's a much bigger issue.

[2081] Yeah.

[2082] Yeah.

[2083] And I'm not going to keep her from being super happy with the robot if that's what she, you know, wants.

[2084] Well, we'll see.

[2085] We'll see.

[2086] Next episode.

[2087] The data will be in.

[2088] Well, thank you, Monica, for correcting me. You're welcome.

[2089] I look forward to the next.

[2090] Blashing.

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[2095] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden features.

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